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From the New York Times:

U.K. General Election 2019: Conservatives Headed for a Majority, Exit Poll Shows

Prime Minister Boris Johnson now appears empowered to lead Britain through Brexit in January, its most momentous transition since World War II.

RIGHT NOW The Conservative Party is projected to win an 86-seat majority.

Here’s what you need to know:
Voters appear to have given Conservatives a strong majority.
A catastrophic defeat is projected for the Labour Party.
Official results are expected early on Friday.
There were long lines in London and beyond.
News outlets had to obey restrictions on reporting.

Keep in mind that these are exit polls, however, and that British first past the post elections can be highly sensitive to small perturbations.

The official numbers will be counted shortly. (Britain is not a backward, low tech place like California where vote counting goes on for several weeks as official wait for the slow boat from Shangri-La to arrive with more votes.)

When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference?

 
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  1. (Britain is not a backward, low tech place like California where vote counting goes on for several weeks.)

    Not just Britain, just about every country counts the votes fast. American parochialism means very few Americans are aware of this and therefore too trusting about the integrity of their own elections.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Not just Britain, just about every country counts the votes fast.
     
    Fast is only good when the first count is honest.
    , @Anon
    As an expat I was flabbergasted to learn that my California county of last U.S. domicile doesn't even count my vote, unless the race is so close that 100 percent of uncounted votes would change the result. Uncounted votes include all categories of hassle-to-count votes, like stuff on paper and those votes they let you do if you don't have ID but they let your provisionally vote while waiting for you to bring in some ID.
    , @Art Deco
    The delays are due to (1) grossly excessive use of postal ballots, (2) an insistance on counting ballots that dribble in after election day rather than getting the ballots out in a timely fashion and deeming ballots arriving after election day to be invalid, and (3) overly complex arrays of elected offices, which add to the time necessary to tabulate. None of these issues are addressed. Instead, they promote even more convenience voting and they lard on more technology which increases avenues for the manipulation of tallies. They cannot even manage to move elections to Saturday, which would be sensible given contemporary work schedules. Instead, they persist in using Tuesday, selected originally because it was a common market day - ca. 1855.
    , @MBlanc46
    Trusting in the integrity of our elections? Not anyone I know.
  2. Self Determination

  3. Anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:

    The first thing they’ll do is betray Brexiteers now they have their big majority, most Tory MPs are Remainers and have no need to play along with Brexit any more now they’ve won. I don’t believe Brexit will happen in January in any form, Boris will find an excuse to delay it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No.

    The hard core 'remainer' Tory MPs were more or less all purged out of Parliament by Boris.
    The *vast* majority of Tory Party members - and voters - are pretty hardcore brexiters. They won't let Boris get away with a stitch-up. They selected him precisely and overwhelmingly to deliver brexit.
    , @Bubba
    Nicola Sturgeon may help him delay it after the SNP gains tonight.
  4. …to lead Britain through Brexit in January, its most momentous transition since World War II.

    Even more momentous than joining the EU four decades ago?

    Oh, wait… the UK didn’t join the EU. They thought they were joining the EEC.

    Silly them. Perhaps they should have listened to their Scottish minority. Joining Europe could only turn out bad.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I was in the UK in the run up to 1992. All four major papers (this was pre-interwebs, so that covered pretty much the whole political spectrum) were shitting their pants in anticipation. It wasn’t by and large anti-American either. It was more the sense that they could finally be like America.

    That no longer has quite the pull it once did, especially the vestigial Empire part of America they get to enjoy first hand.

    , @anonymous1963
    It was that Scottish minority (by supporting Labour) that was so responsible for flooding England with non-whites sport.
  5. @Matra
    (Britain is not a backward, low tech place like California where vote counting goes on for several weeks.)

    Not just Britain, just about every country counts the votes fast. American parochialism means very few Americans are aware of this and therefore too trusting about the integrity of their own elections.

    Not just Britain, just about every country counts the votes fast.

    Fast is only good when the first count is honest.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Matra
    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US? The integrity of your elections is more questionable than those in Canada, Britain, France, and elsewhere.
  6. Apparently Russians are a kind of turtle, and occupy the same celestial space:
    https://postimg.cc/fkfgVC1f

  7. There’s been so many problems with Brexit. Will this vote make leaving possible at last for them? I certainly hope so.

    The Telegraph says “On a catastrophic night for Labour, Jeremy Corbyn’s party was predicted to end the day with just 191 seats, down 71 on the last election in their worst result since 1935.” I have to wonder if Labor’s commitment to the UK becoming an open borders country had anything to do with their defeat. I would certainly hope so. No First World country can survive that has an official policy of allowing everybody in who wants to come to live and work. “Free Movement” cannot be a right.

    Here’s the link to the Telegraph’s live election blog for those who are interested:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/12/general-election-2019-exit-polls-results-live/

    • Agree: ben tillman
  8. Anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:

    Boris will probably betray Brexiteers now he has his majority. As news of the exit poll broke, Priti Patel (Home Secretary) was interviewed on TV, and the presenter asked her multiple times about Brexit and she didn’t sound very enthusiastic at all, refusing to put a time frame on it or really say much at all about it.

    You’d think she would be more enthusiastic about it considering almost the whole campaign was based around it. It’s almost as if she doesn’t really want to “get Brexit done” after all.

  9. That’s exactly what he’ll do. He’s a bumbling, buffoonish upper class ceding you next Tuesday twit drunk on soggy biscuits.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    No. He plays at being an upper-class twit, but is in fact an upper-class political genius, much helped by another (much less upper-class) election-winning genius called Dominic Cumming, who, merely middle-class as he may be, is married to the daughter of a baronet, herself a journalist of talent and a convert to the Church of Rome.

    I mean by none of this that I find him either likeable or admirable. But: he is better by far than the alternative.
  10. Anon[646] • Disclaimer says:
    @Matra
    (Britain is not a backward, low tech place like California where vote counting goes on for several weeks.)

    Not just Britain, just about every country counts the votes fast. American parochialism means very few Americans are aware of this and therefore too trusting about the integrity of their own elections.

    As an expat I was flabbergasted to learn that my California county of last U.S. domicile doesn’t even count my vote, unless the race is so close that 100 percent of uncounted votes would change the result. Uncounted votes include all categories of hassle-to-count votes, like stuff on paper and those votes they let you do if you don’t have ID but they let your provisionally vote while waiting for you to bring in some ID.

  11. Interesting admission:

    “We are not in this country just to take your government money,” said Tresor Mugwaneza, a college student who came to the U.S. from Congo.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-dakota-county-narrowly-votes-continue-accepting-refugees-n1099061

    My emphasis.

    • Replies: @bomag
    Wow.

    I'm sure the gov't of the Congo will never be stupid enough to subsidize Westerners moving in. Looks like they win and we lose.

    If there is a future study of what happened to nice America, this would be a trenchant piece.

    [Trump] ordered that refugees would be resettled in jurisdictions where state and local governments consented to receive them.
     
    So they had no say before, of course, but the nice people of North Dakota can't say "no" now in any public capacity. There were a few tepid words from the mayor about the cost of the program, but it was drowned out by "we have to be nice"; "we are all immigrants"; "we need workers".

    She said her aunt and her husband and their four children “ran from Nigeria to seek protection,”...
     
    It's around 7000 miles from Nigeria to North Dakota; let's reflect some more on the ability of modern transportation and it's supporting infrastructure to mainline an extended family straight into a nice place.

    If they had to really run that far for protection, I'd say the doomsday clock's hammer is moving down to strike midnight.
  12. If appears the Sailer Strategy does quite well in the UK judging from the way the white working class has been trending there.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Yep, the political realignment, that almost happened in 2017, has now occurred. Johnson has won his Michigan and Pennsylvania. The important difference is there are now about fifty odd new MPs from these areas who will push the new agenda on Brexit and immigration.

    Notable the worst area for the Conservatives is immigrant dominated London.
  13. My general takeaway is that somehow British television coverage manages to be even more smug and untethered from reality than their American counterparts. All I am hearing about is how this apparently impressive win by Conservatives presents them with tremendous challenges with virtually no contemplation of what it means for Labour.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    What channel are you watching, I'm watching the BBC, ITV and C4, all of them are asking Labour Party members hard questions about their future
  14. We’ll just have to see how badly the Tories f*** it up, won’t we?

  15. Brexit Party siphoned votes away from Labour Party.

  16. @Matra
    (Britain is not a backward, low tech place like California where vote counting goes on for several weeks.)

    Not just Britain, just about every country counts the votes fast. American parochialism means very few Americans are aware of this and therefore too trusting about the integrity of their own elections.

    The delays are due to (1) grossly excessive use of postal ballots, (2) an insistance on counting ballots that dribble in after election day rather than getting the ballots out in a timely fashion and deeming ballots arriving after election day to be invalid, and (3) overly complex arrays of elected offices, which add to the time necessary to tabulate. None of these issues are addressed. Instead, they promote even more convenience voting and they lard on more technology which increases avenues for the manipulation of tallies. They cannot even manage to move elections to Saturday, which would be sensible given contemporary work schedules. Instead, they persist in using Tuesday, selected originally because it was a common market day – ca. 1855.

    • Agree: Matra
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    They cannot even manage to move elections to Saturday, which would be sensible given contemporary work schedules.
     
    You're one of the lucky ones who get Saturday off?
  17. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/result-total-disaster-merseyside-people-17411671?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

    This General Election result will be a total disaster for Merseyside – people will die

    Amazing how if you said that about mass immigration, why you’d get a prison sentence.

  18. Weird. Both Drudge and the FT had Labor poised to win.

    I guess the Muslim majority did not vote. This time.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Whiskey says: • Website
    December 12, 2019 at 5:05 pm GMT • 100 Words
    Corbyn is anti Semitic. Likely also to win outright. Demographics is destiny.
     
    Whiskey, wrong again. You and the estimable John Derbyshire should compare notes over, if I might be so presumptuous to offer the appropriate libation, shots of whiskey.

    And the last man standing will still be wrong.
    , @A123

    FT had Labor poised to win.
     
    FT chose George Soros as their Person of the Year.

    It may have been a credible institution decades ago, but they are now relentlessly biased.

    PEACE 😇
  19. @Clifford Brown
    My general takeaway is that somehow British television coverage manages to be even more smug and untethered from reality than their American counterparts. All I am hearing about is how this apparently impressive win by Conservatives presents them with tremendous challenges with virtually no contemplation of what it means for Labour.

    What channel are you watching, I’m watching the BBC, ITV and C4, all of them are asking Labour Party members hard questions about their future

    • Replies: @Clifford Brown
    I was watching Sky News before there was complete consensus on who won. I guess once it was called, everyone changed their tune.
  20. • Replies: @216
    We are dealing with an academic left reading straight out of the Adorno playbook.

    Denial of our rights of self-determination.

    You know, the thing World Wars were fought over.

    This is the attitude that pervades our establishment.
    , @Oswald Spengler
    It's always 1933 for these people, especially any time a right of center party wins an important election.
    , @Laurence Whelk

    That's how people must have felt in 1933. #Brexit #GeneralElection #ExitPolls

    — Ulrike Guérot (@ulrikeguerot) December 12, 2019
     
    Go directly to Hitler; do not pass Go.

    https://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/021/818/hitlerbook.JPG
    , @SFG
    The Commies in Weimar Germany had the term 'Social Fascism' for the social democratic parties. The idea being that anything short of full communism was just the same as fascism.

    Yeah, that had to be a nasty wake-up call.
    , @eah
    Could describe the whole country at this point really: "disabled because of illness" -- alternatively, after reading down the thread: 'Someone call the waaahmbulance'

    https://twitter.com/suejonessays/status/1205395703910092801
    , @eah
    Unsurprisingly, she deleted it -- but it has been captured for posterity.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELoBUXtWoAApsdV.png
  21. When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference?

    Why on earth should a country as densely populated as Britain take any immigrants? Try immigrating to China or India if you are not of that ethnicity, by the way.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @onetwothree
    Good point. You really showed Steve the error of his ways there.
    , @PiltdownMan
    Fwiw,

    England and India are now about equally densely populated, approximately 1000 people per square mile.

    Recently, India has been taking a hard line towards migrants, and has just passed a law excluding Muslims from neighboring countries from migrating into India.

  22. Interesting result, but it might have been very different had the Brexit Party not stood down its candidates in seats held by the Conservatives.

    Bear in mind that the Conservatives originally called for the Brexit referendum as a means of gutting the United Kingdom Independence Party, which threatened split the Conservative Party vote. The end result today has been that the Conservative Party has won, but only after being consumed by the parasite. The Labour Party has also been disemboweled by Brexit.

    What the future will bring is anyone’s guess. I don’ think it bodes very well for Britain, which I left almost 40 years ago. In less than 6 months I will be returning to visit there for the first time in almost 20 years and probably will not like a lot of what I see and will remember why I left in the first place.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The end result today has been that the Conservative Party has won, but only after being consumed by the parasite.

    It hasn't been consumed at all. It's been brought back to a semblance of good sense. One buttress down. Time for Italy's electorate to blast away at another.
    , @SFG
    I actually do expect an economic decline. The Brits probably figure they'll muddle through, as they have so many times before. Mrs. Miniver and all that. If anyone was going to quit the EU, it was going to be them; might as well see how it goes.

    In my opinion: It's their country, they get to pick what they want to do with it. I suspect in 10 years, they'll be poorer, and in 30 years, they'll still be British. The Scots may split, and, hey, that's their choice too.

    Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won't complain. ;)

    , @Old Palo Altan
    We look forward to hearing your reaction sometime in ... what, July?
  23. I’ve voted in every single election since attaining to the legal age of 18. I used to be very insistent upon it. But something broke; I no longer have any desire to even follow electoral politics, let alone participate in them. Trump may have been, probably will be, the last president I will ever vote for.

    It’s not that I think the that elections are rigged or that it doesn’t matter which candidate is elected to office (they aren’t and it does, marginal instances of voter fraud and the existence of the permanent bureaucracy notwithstanding); it’s just that the whole charade is now too threadbare and barren of any glory to be worthy of a good man’s time.

    Western democracy is senile and superannuated and beyond recovery. It’s time to just let the whole thing die.

    • Agree: Liza
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Mr. Dasein, do not go gentle into that good night.

    I sure as hell won't.
    , @Justvisiting
    I haven't voted in years, but my decision has been an easy one.

    In my state every U.S. Senator, Congressmen and Governor consider me a deplorable. They have nothing to offer me but insults and lies.

    I can't vote them out of office.

    So, I just keep a low profile and enjoy life.

    If I moved to a state where my vote mattered I might have to consider voting.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    I wish we could just "let it die".

    I think we're going to have to kill it.
  24. When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference

    Sure wouldn’t surprise me. Anybody recall pro-Brexiteer Nigel Farage saying (to a South Asian, if I recall right) that his people were preferable as immigrants to central-European people on account of ex-Soviet Europeans apparently not having any understanding of freedom?

    They can exit the EU tomorrow and nothing will change.

  25. @Jonathan Mason
    Interesting result, but it might have been very different had the Brexit Party not stood down its candidates in seats held by the Conservatives.

    Bear in mind that the Conservatives originally called for the Brexit referendum as a means of gutting the United Kingdom Independence Party, which threatened split the Conservative Party vote. The end result today has been that the Conservative Party has won, but only after being consumed by the parasite. The Labour Party has also been disemboweled by Brexit.

    What the future will bring is anyone's guess. I don' think it bodes very well for Britain, which I left almost 40 years ago. In less than 6 months I will be returning to visit there for the first time in almost 20 years and probably will not like a lot of what I see and will remember why I left in the first place.

    The end result today has been that the Conservative Party has won, but only after being consumed by the parasite.

    It hasn’t been consumed at all. It’s been brought back to a semblance of good sense. One buttress down. Time for Italy’s electorate to blast away at another.

    • Agree: Old Palo Altan
  26. @eah
    Some people are reacting badly.

    https://twitter.com/ulrikeguerot/status/1205257290250620929

    We are dealing with an academic left reading straight out of the Adorno playbook.

    Denial of our rights of self-determination.

    You know, the thing World Wars were fought over.

    This is the attitude that pervades our establishment.

    • Replies: @eah
    Denial of our rights of self-determination.

    Actually, she would never do something like that -- she's an upstanding perfesser, and an expert on democracy -- it says so right in her Twitter account: "Prof. for European Policy & Study of Democracy @Donau_Uni & Founder of European Democracy Lab @EuDemLab."

  27. So will they go off to the flags listed in their bio

    https://twitter.com/ChantayyJayy/status/1205254754022150144

    No, of course not.

    They are here to cause us misery.

    • Replies: @anon
    They are here to cause us misery.

    They are there because it's better than where they came from, because gibsmedat.
    , @James J. O'Meara
    "trumps" huh huh
    , @Bill B.
    Apparently “the working class” is white.
  28. @(((They))) Live
    What channel are you watching, I'm watching the BBC, ITV and C4, all of them are asking Labour Party members hard questions about their future

    I was watching Sky News before there was complete consensus on who won. I guess once it was called, everyone changed their tune.

  29. Exit Polls: Tories Win

    It couldn’t have been otherwise.

    Even from way over on the other side of the Atlantic–the ocean breeze currently pelting us with squall after squall off the water–i thought this was pretty clear.

    The problem for Labor is that they still depend on British (i.e. white) working class voters and most of them are for Brexit. In an election forced over Brexit and centered around Brexit completion they were screwed. They couldn’t campaign against Brexit … and were just caught in the middle.

    In the US the Democrats had an easier time building their dumbell–minorities and white gentry liberals–coalition because they had a steady 10-12% base with the black vote. So they could segue from “working class” to “gather round all yee parasites and goodthinkers” with much more ease. They more or less successfully transitioned a generation back with Clinton. They still have some white working class voters–yes plenty of white people aren’t very smart–and they can’t afford to just unzip and piss on them like Hillary did, but they have a very powerful coalition of the fringes that with immigration is in demographic ascendence.

    Labor was screwed this time. But if the Tories don’t stop immigration, in time Labor–or some sort of successor “progressives unite!” party with the Liberal Democrats–should be able to put together a similar coalition of the fringes and be unbeatable.

    I guess the one caveat, is that the muslims themselves can be quite alienating to some other particular minority groups–Jews, Hindus–so it isn’t quite as easy in the US. (Blacks aren’t loved by anyone else, but politically they’re just asking for Affirmative Action slots, racial shakedowns, public employment, welfare. They aren’t taking one side of these foreign squabbles–Israel, Kashmir, Modi/BJP.)

    • Replies: @houston 1992
    1) does the UK result provide a harbinger for USA Nov 2020?

    2)What would be a sign e.g. cabinet appointments by Alexander Johnson that indicated that BJ was paying some attention to the desires of the Midlamders and Northerners who voted Tory. What are the names of such Tory MPs?
  30. @Whiskey
    Weird. Both Drudge and the FT had Labor poised to win.

    I guess the Muslim majority did not vote. This time.

    Whiskey says: • Website
    December 12, 2019 at 5:05 pm GMT • 100 Words
    Corbyn is anti Semitic. Likely also to win outright. Demographics is destiny.

    Whiskey, wrong again. You and the estimable John Derbyshire should compare notes over, if I might be so presumptuous to offer the appropriate libation, shots of whiskey.

    And the last man standing will still be wrong.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    Glad to be wrong. But my impression is that most of the North is Muslim. That should equal Labor.
  31. @216
    So will they go off to the flags listed in their bio

    https://twitter.com/ChantayyJayy/status/1205254754022150144

    No, of course not.

    They are here to cause us misery.

    They are here to cause us misery.

    They are there because it’s better than where they came from, because gibsmedat.

  32. No matter which party or coalition has the most seats, there will not be a real Brexit. There may be, after some more skullduggery, bribes, and general dishonesty, a simulacrum of Brexit, but no more than that. The days when Britons really ruled Britain are long gone, and not coming back. All the big money in Britain is globalist. All the meaningful politicians are globalists/eu fans. The Britons? Who care what they think.

    The next thing is to completely ruin the pound, and that is coming quickly, rest assured. Rule Britannia?? Rue Britannia more like. By-by. Save us a seat, as we Yanks are not too far behind.

    • Agree: Liza
  33. Clueless foreigner unaware that this seat had been Labour forever…

  34. @Whiskey
    Weird. Both Drudge and the FT had Labor poised to win.

    I guess the Muslim majority did not vote. This time.

    FT had Labor poised to win.

    FT chose George Soros as their Person of the Year.

    It may have been a credible institution decades ago, but they are now relentlessly biased.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    They had a whole series of articles about which shadow minister to bribe to avoid nationalization.

    This was not editorial but business news. A lot of readers lining labor big shot pockets are now angry they wasted the money instead of hookers and blow.
    , @Bill B.

    FT chose George Soros as their Person of the Year.
    It may have been a credible institution decades ago, but they are now relentlessly biased.
     
    Ha. The Economist urged Brits to vote for the “woke” Liberal Democrats because the Lib Dem’s values are that of 19th Century liberals!

    Extraordinarily voters ignored this wisdom - the Lib Dem leader even lost her seat.

  35. @Reg Cæsar

    Not just Britain, just about every country counts the votes fast.
     
    Fast is only good when the first count is honest.

    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US? The integrity of your elections is more questionable than those in Canada, Britain, France, and elsewhere.

    • Replies: @Bubba

    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US?
     
    Nice try, but Reg didn't say that nor imply it.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US?
     
    Can you even read? I said nothing about any other country's elections. I merely stated that speed would be of little help in America.

    Do you really think speed would improve Chicago?

    There are streets and other things all over Europe named after John F Kennedy. Do they really think he won that election?

    If they do, they're either hopelessly naïve, or as corrupt as any Daley Democrat.

  36. @eah
    Some people are reacting badly.

    https://twitter.com/ulrikeguerot/status/1205257290250620929

    It’s always 1933 for these people, especially any time a right of center party wins an important election.

    • Agree: Hail
  37. Like Trump’s win, it’s the not friends of the people just barely defeating the avowed enemies of the people, for the very last time.

    Sláinte.

  38. Coal mining towns in Wales electing Tory MPs, amazing

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    And West Virginia went big for Trump. We don’t care much for rich snobs lording it over us and never have.
    , @JMcG
    Does anyone know what’s going on in the northeast part of Scotland that went Tory? Is that unusual?
  39. “When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference.”

    In the Brexit referendum, didn’t the British public made their voices heard?

    They want fewer heroic Polish cooks skilled at improvised defense with Narwhal tusks (because possession of weapons is illegal for law-abiding citizens)…

    …but perhaps more stabby Pakistanis instead…?

  40. @Jonathan Mason
    Interesting result, but it might have been very different had the Brexit Party not stood down its candidates in seats held by the Conservatives.

    Bear in mind that the Conservatives originally called for the Brexit referendum as a means of gutting the United Kingdom Independence Party, which threatened split the Conservative Party vote. The end result today has been that the Conservative Party has won, but only after being consumed by the parasite. The Labour Party has also been disemboweled by Brexit.

    What the future will bring is anyone's guess. I don' think it bodes very well for Britain, which I left almost 40 years ago. In less than 6 months I will be returning to visit there for the first time in almost 20 years and probably will not like a lot of what I see and will remember why I left in the first place.

    I actually do expect an economic decline. The Brits probably figure they’ll muddle through, as they have so many times before. Mrs. Miniver and all that. If anyone was going to quit the EU, it was going to be them; might as well see how it goes.

    In my opinion: It’s their country, they get to pick what they want to do with it. I suspect in 10 years, they’ll be poorer, and in 30 years, they’ll still be British. The Scots may split, and, hey, that’s their choice too.

    Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won’t complain. 😉

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    In my opinion: It’s their country, they get to pick what they want to do with it. I suspect in 10 years, they’ll be poorer, and in 30 years, they’ll still be British.
     
    Well, quite so. At the time of the Scotland independence referendum I was saying that people should not think purely in terms of the economy, but how a change to independence would affect the whole culture of the country and what it is like to live in.

    If England or Scotland has to go back to the standard of living in the 1960's, life would not be all that bad. Swinging London, the Beatles, and all that!
    , @Jane Plain
    "Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won’t complain."

    Why would it be good for us? I've nothing against UK, in fact I'm something of an Anglophile culturally, but they need us way more than we need them.

    As for muddling through a la Mrs. Miniver, surely you exaggerate. The war years and for years after were years of genuine deprivation in Britain.

    Weekly food ration:

    Bacon & Ham 4 oz
    Other meat value of 1 shilling and 2 pence (equivalent to 2 chops)

    Butter 2 oz
    Cheese 2 oz
    Margarine 4 oz
    Cooking fat 4 oz
    Milk 3 pints
    Sugar 8 oz
    Preserves 1 lb every 2 months
    Tea 2 oz
    Eggs 1 fresh egg (plus allowance of dried egg)
    Sweets 12 oz every 4 weeks

    https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Rationing-in-World-War-Two/

    emphasis added.

    I've not been able to find a comparable source for the US, but offhand I remember my mom telling me they were rationed to 28 oz of meat per week. She didn't remember the rest. That's 4 ounces a day - compared to the British 4 oz plus two chops a week.

    There will be nothing like that, unless a natural disaster hits.
  41. @Flip

    When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference?
     
    Why on earth should a country as densely populated as Britain take any immigrants? Try immigrating to China or India if you are not of that ethnicity, by the way.

    Good point. You really showed Steve the error of his ways there.

  42. @eah
    Some people are reacting badly.

    https://twitter.com/ulrikeguerot/status/1205257290250620929

    That’s how people must have felt in 1933. #Brexit #GeneralElection #ExitPolls

    — Ulrike Guérot (@ulrikeguerot) December 12, 2019

    Go directly to Hitler; do not pass Go.

    • Agree: BenKenobi
  43. @SFG
    I actually do expect an economic decline. The Brits probably figure they'll muddle through, as they have so many times before. Mrs. Miniver and all that. If anyone was going to quit the EU, it was going to be them; might as well see how it goes.

    In my opinion: It's their country, they get to pick what they want to do with it. I suspect in 10 years, they'll be poorer, and in 30 years, they'll still be British. The Scots may split, and, hey, that's their choice too.

    Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won't complain. ;)

    In my opinion: It’s their country, they get to pick what they want to do with it. I suspect in 10 years, they’ll be poorer, and in 30 years, they’ll still be British.

    Well, quite so. At the time of the Scotland independence referendum I was saying that people should not think purely in terms of the economy, but how a change to independence would affect the whole culture of the country and what it is like to live in.

    If England or Scotland has to go back to the standard of living in the 1960’s, life would not be all that bad. Swinging London, the Beatles, and all that!

    • Agree: Desiderius
  44. @Reg Cæsar

    ...to lead Britain through Brexit in January, its most momentous transition since World War II.
     
    Even more momentous than joining the EU four decades ago?

    Oh, wait... the UK didn't join the EU. They thought they were joining the EEC.

    Silly them. Perhaps they should have listened to their Scottish minority. Joining Europe could only turn out bad.

    I was in the UK in the run up to 1992. All four major papers (this was pre-interwebs, so that covered pretty much the whole political spectrum) were shitting their pants in anticipation. It wasn’t by and large anti-American either. It was more the sense that they could finally be like America.

    That no longer has quite the pull it once did, especially the vestigial Empire part of America they get to enjoy first hand.

  45. Everything is falling into place:

    Study Finds Key Brain Region Smaller in Birth Control Pill Users

    https://press.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/14_pr_target.cfm?id=2136

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Everything is falling into place:
     
    What do you mean?
  46. @AnotherDad

    Exit Polls: Tories Win
     
    It couldn't have been otherwise.

    Even from way over on the other side of the Atlantic--the ocean breeze currently pelting us with squall after squall off the water--i thought this was pretty clear.

    The problem for Labor is that they still depend on British (i.e. white) working class voters and most of them are for Brexit. In an election forced over Brexit and centered around Brexit completion they were screwed. They couldn't campaign against Brexit ... and were just caught in the middle.

    In the US the Democrats had an easier time building their dumbell--minorities and white gentry liberals--coalition because they had a steady 10-12% base with the black vote. So they could segue from "working class" to "gather round all yee parasites and goodthinkers" with much more ease. They more or less successfully transitioned a generation back with Clinton. They still have some white working class voters--yes plenty of white people aren't very smart--and they can't afford to just unzip and piss on them like Hillary did, but they have a very powerful coalition of the fringes that with immigration is in demographic ascendence.

    Labor was screwed this time. But if the Tories don't stop immigration, in time Labor--or some sort of successor "progressives unite!" party with the Liberal Democrats--should be able to put together a similar coalition of the fringes and be unbeatable.

    I guess the one caveat, is that the muslims themselves can be quite alienating to some other particular minority groups--Jews, Hindus--so it isn't quite as easy in the US. (Blacks aren't loved by anyone else, but politically they're just asking for Affirmative Action slots, racial shakedowns, public employment, welfare. They aren't taking one side of these foreign squabbles--Israel, Kashmir, Modi/BJP.)

    1) does the UK result provide a harbinger for USA Nov 2020?

    2)What would be a sign e.g. cabinet appointments by Alexander Johnson that indicated that BJ was paying some attention to the desires of the Midlamders and Northerners who voted Tory. What are the names of such Tory MPs?

  47. @(((They))) Live
    Coal mining towns in Wales electing Tory MPs, amazing

    And West Virginia went big for Trump. We don’t care much for rich snobs lording it over us and never have.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    Oh yes I understand that, but in former mining towns in Wales and the north of England the voters hate Thatcher's Troy party with a passion, it really is amazing to see them elect a Tory
  48. @SFG
    I actually do expect an economic decline. The Brits probably figure they'll muddle through, as they have so many times before. Mrs. Miniver and all that. If anyone was going to quit the EU, it was going to be them; might as well see how it goes.

    In my opinion: It's their country, they get to pick what they want to do with it. I suspect in 10 years, they'll be poorer, and in 30 years, they'll still be British. The Scots may split, and, hey, that's their choice too.

    Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won't complain. ;)

    “Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won’t complain.”

    Why would it be good for us? I’ve nothing against UK, in fact I’m something of an Anglophile culturally, but they need us way more than we need them.

    As for muddling through a la Mrs. Miniver, surely you exaggerate. The war years and for years after were years of genuine deprivation in Britain.

    Weekly food ration:

    Bacon & Ham 4 oz
    Other meat value of 1 shilling and 2 pence (equivalent to 2 chops)

    Butter 2 oz
    Cheese 2 oz
    Margarine 4 oz
    Cooking fat 4 oz
    Milk 3 pints
    Sugar 8 oz
    Preserves 1 lb every 2 months
    Tea 2 oz
    Eggs 1 fresh egg (plus allowance of dried egg)
    Sweets 12 oz every 4 weeks

    https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Rationing-in-World-War-Two/

    emphasis added.

    I’ve not been able to find a comparable source for the US, but offhand I remember my mom telling me they were rationed to 28 oz of meat per week. She didn’t remember the rest. That’s 4 ounces a day – compared to the British 4 oz plus two chops a week.

    There will be nothing like that, unless a natural disaster hits.

    • Replies: @SFG
    I guess my point was they got through rationing and the Blitz, they can get through this. To be quite frank, much as I love my country, the Brits are probably better equipped culturally to deal with that sort of thing than we are over here. Too much of American culture is about prosperity.
    , @Whiskey
    Elizabeth Warren, Mayor Buttgig, AOC, and St. Greta all want more rationing than that here to save the planet. While they find in Wagyu beef and lobster.
    , @James J. O'Meara
    Cry me a river. The Brits never ate as good or as healthy as during wartime. "Privation" meant they couldn't buy "nicer" things like tins of Argentine beef or tinned peas, nor afford all their sticky toffee pudding washed down with pints of sugary tea. Forced to grow their own veggies! Oh, the humanity!

    "Teeth's a bother. Best rid of them" -- old working class woman to Orwell, Road to Wigan Pier.
    , @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5993lPFEwaE&list=PLj9u4Ts2NpEtHrO1NLjk_n9ebj12102sb
  49. @Flip

    When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference?
     
    Why on earth should a country as densely populated as Britain take any immigrants? Try immigrating to China or India if you are not of that ethnicity, by the way.

    Fwiw,

    England and India are now about equally densely populated, approximately 1000 people per square mile.

    Recently, India has been taking a hard line towards migrants, and has just passed a law excluding Muslims from neighboring countries from migrating into India.

  50. Worthless

    • Replies: @Lot
    -15% in 2 years!

    With anti-Jews, you lose.

    https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/styles/original_800w/public/2015-08/150819-jeremy-corbyn.jpg
    , @Hail

    Rotherham: Lab HOLD

    LAB: 41.3% (-15.1)
    CON: 32.6% (+6.2)
    BREX: 17.2% (+17.2)
    LDEM: 5.9% (+1.3)
    OTH: 3.0% (+3.0)

    Turnout: 57.8%
     

    What share of voters were Muslims or etc.?

    Also --- Why doesn't the UK have runoffs for the top two vote getters? Brexit + Conservative has 49.8% in Rotherham, presumably enough to overcome the "Legacy Labour" + Muslim (etc.) vote, in a one-to-one matchup.

  51. @Desiderius
    And West Virginia went big for Trump. We don’t care much for rich snobs lording it over us and never have.

    Oh yes I understand that, but in former mining towns in Wales and the north of England the voters hate Thatcher’s Troy party with a passion, it really is amazing to see them elect a Tory

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    And West Virginia has hated Republicans my whole life (and long before, since the Rs went from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Dewey) for the same reason. Alot of us have roots that go back to those Welsh mines.
  52. @Matra
    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US? The integrity of your elections is more questionable than those in Canada, Britain, France, and elsewhere.

    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US?

    Nice try, but Reg didn’t say that nor imply it.

  53. @Jane Plain
    "Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won’t complain."

    Why would it be good for us? I've nothing against UK, in fact I'm something of an Anglophile culturally, but they need us way more than we need them.

    As for muddling through a la Mrs. Miniver, surely you exaggerate. The war years and for years after were years of genuine deprivation in Britain.

    Weekly food ration:

    Bacon & Ham 4 oz
    Other meat value of 1 shilling and 2 pence (equivalent to 2 chops)

    Butter 2 oz
    Cheese 2 oz
    Margarine 4 oz
    Cooking fat 4 oz
    Milk 3 pints
    Sugar 8 oz
    Preserves 1 lb every 2 months
    Tea 2 oz
    Eggs 1 fresh egg (plus allowance of dried egg)
    Sweets 12 oz every 4 weeks

    https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Rationing-in-World-War-Two/

    emphasis added.

    I've not been able to find a comparable source for the US, but offhand I remember my mom telling me they were rationed to 28 oz of meat per week. She didn't remember the rest. That's 4 ounces a day - compared to the British 4 oz plus two chops a week.

    There will be nothing like that, unless a natural disaster hits.

    I guess my point was they got through rationing and the Blitz, they can get through this. To be quite frank, much as I love my country, the Brits are probably better equipped culturally to deal with that sort of thing than we are over here. Too much of American culture is about prosperity.

  54. @Matra
    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US? The integrity of your elections is more questionable than those in Canada, Britain, France, and elsewhere.

    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US?

    Can you even read? I said nothing about any other country’s elections. I merely stated that speed would be of little help in America.

    Do you really think speed would improve Chicago?

    There are streets and other things all over Europe named after John F Kennedy. Do they really think he won that election?

    If they do, they’re either hopelessly naïve, or as corrupt as any Daley Democrat.

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    There are streets and other things all over Europe named after John F Kennedy. Do they really think he won that election?

    If they do, they’re either hopelessly naïve, or as corrupt as any Daley Democrat.
     

    Nixon didn't win it either. The 1960 election was a corrupt, muddled mess, and it's unlcear who would've won it, under a clean system. Steve's repeatedly covered how the GOP was just as corrupt in downstate Illinois counties, as the Democrats were in Cook County. And he got that info from Ted White's THE MAKING OF THE PRESIDENT: 1960, as I recall.
  55. @eah
    Some people are reacting badly.

    https://twitter.com/ulrikeguerot/status/1205257290250620929

    The Commies in Weimar Germany had the term ‘Social Fascism’ for the social democratic parties. The idea being that anything short of full communism was just the same as fascism.

    Yeah, that had to be a nasty wake-up call.

    • Replies: @Flip
    To be fair, I lump Communists, Socialists, and Democrats together these days.
  56. @Art Deco
    The delays are due to (1) grossly excessive use of postal ballots, (2) an insistance on counting ballots that dribble in after election day rather than getting the ballots out in a timely fashion and deeming ballots arriving after election day to be invalid, and (3) overly complex arrays of elected offices, which add to the time necessary to tabulate. None of these issues are addressed. Instead, they promote even more convenience voting and they lard on more technology which increases avenues for the manipulation of tallies. They cannot even manage to move elections to Saturday, which would be sensible given contemporary work schedules. Instead, they persist in using Tuesday, selected originally because it was a common market day - ca. 1855.

    They cannot even manage to move elections to Saturday, which would be sensible given contemporary work schedules.

    You’re one of the lucky ones who get Saturday off?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    There are 250 million voting-age people in this country. About 20% (50 million or so) habitually work week-ends and / or holidays, putting in a mean of 5.27 hours on days they work. (See "Table 4. Employed persons working and time spent working on days worked by full- and part-time status and sex, jobholding status, educational attainment, and day of week, 2018 annual averages", last modifed 19 June 2019, Bureau of Labor Statistics).
  57. @(((They))) Live
    Oh yes I understand that, but in former mining towns in Wales and the north of England the voters hate Thatcher's Troy party with a passion, it really is amazing to see them elect a Tory

    And West Virginia has hated Republicans my whole life (and long before, since the Rs went from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Dewey) for the same reason. Alot of us have roots that go back to those Welsh mines.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    And West Virginia has hated Republicans my whole life (and long before, since the Rs went from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Dewey) for the same reason. Alot of us have roots that go back to those Welsh mines.
     
    Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan carried the state after serving a term. W carried the state both times.

    The "party of Dewey" was cleaner and more benign than the "party of Lincoln". They owed Lincoln their statehood, but little else.

    My brother-in-law's father was a lifelong West Virginian named for FDR (eww...), but the state has moved on. The Mountaineer has learned of the Third Great Lie, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

    Also, poverty is now a feature rather than a bug. Keeps the state white.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans#Geographic_distribution

    Look at East Virginia!
    , @LondonBob
    Cannock Chase in the West Midlands was an ultra safe ex mining town for Labour, completely flipped over steadily at each election over the past thirty years with it now being an ultra safe Conservative seat.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000618
  58. @Intelligent Dasein
    I've voted in every single election since attaining to the legal age of 18. I used to be very insistent upon it. But something broke; I no longer have any desire to even follow electoral politics, let alone participate in them. Trump may have been, probably will be, the last president I will ever vote for.

    It's not that I think the that elections are rigged or that it doesn't matter which candidate is elected to office (they aren't and it does, marginal instances of voter fraud and the existence of the permanent bureaucracy notwithstanding); it's just that the whole charade is now too threadbare and barren of any glory to be worthy of a good man's time.

    Western democracy is senile and superannuated and beyond recovery. It's time to just let the whole thing die.

    Mr. Dasein, do not go gentle into that good night.

    I sure as hell won’t.

  59. This is like Christmas come early for me.

    To be honest, it’s been hard to even watch American politics right now which is a car crash under Donald Trump, compared to Right-populist politics done right in the UK. We know that Trump is horribly unpopular here. I guess somehow we hope that the voters will forget all about their antipathy for Trump come Election Day, even though they are reminded the causes of it every day.

    • Disagree: ben tillman
  60. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Whiskey says: • Website
    December 12, 2019 at 5:05 pm GMT • 100 Words
    Corbyn is anti Semitic. Likely also to win outright. Demographics is destiny.
     
    Whiskey, wrong again. You and the estimable John Derbyshire should compare notes over, if I might be so presumptuous to offer the appropriate libation, shots of whiskey.

    And the last man standing will still be wrong.

    Glad to be wrong. But my impression is that most of the North is Muslim. That should equal Labor.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    UK is almost 90% white people (racially North European people), although the trend will be declining. Still you should not confuse trends, with current reality. Perhaps in 2089, it will be a brown country. But it is still 2019.

    And English high bourgeoisie is probably around 90% white (I assume, from looking at videos of high bourgeois schools).

    However, there are very high rates of black and brown people in certain areas, which are especially places where tourists and journalists will visit (e.g. near airports, train stations, areas of London, etc), and so these people report that it is a brown Muslim country.

    (I have also visited some brown areas in UK, mainly London - and these areas still do not seem at all dangerous; it is Western Europe; not America).


    -

    This is the kind of scene you see in a middle class UK city - (it's not the Islamist country they claim in either American or Russian trashy television)

    https://i.imgur.com/qcEuh1x.mp4

  61. @A123

    FT had Labor poised to win.
     
    FT chose George Soros as their Person of the Year.

    It may have been a credible institution decades ago, but they are now relentlessly biased.

    PEACE 😇

    They had a whole series of articles about which shadow minister to bribe to avoid nationalization.

    This was not editorial but business news. A lot of readers lining labor big shot pockets are now angry they wasted the money instead of hookers and blow.

  62. Might be a bigger blow out than we think. Bill Blain the financial blogger, who leans Labour, pointed out that had not the Brexit Party stood for election in Sunderland the Tories would have won that seat. Will have to see how much Farage cost the Tories in Labour leaning districts when the final results are known but the fact that the Tories are winning historically Labour seats shows that the election there is mimicking the Trump 2016 election where blue collar voters or, as Peggy Noonan noted, its a case of the ‘unprotected voters’ revolting against the ‘protected class’.

    The Tory party may have to jettison its traditional base and move to a more egalitarian stance and protect gig or zero contract workers and crack down on the rentier class. In any event this is punch to the stomach of the EU/globalists.

    Obviouly some electoral reform is necessary. No way should 5 million Scots have so many seats in Parliament.

    • Replies: @216
    The problem is that in certain parts of the UK, the Conservatives are so despised to the extent they haven't won in 100 years or more. Unlike the US there is no opportunity to ticket split, just the chance on a semi regular basis to vote for a single MP.

    So by having Farage's party, you can vote for him without the stigma of voting Conservative.

    So you can't get "Reagan Democrats" in the UK system. At best in the devolved regional parliaments you could vote a split ticket, but England doesn't have a devolved parliament.

    As good as the results are today, the UK remains a secular wasteland with no signs of revival. There's something wrong about Anglicans being out-preached by Jews in their own country.

  63. @Jane Plain
    "Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won’t complain."

    Why would it be good for us? I've nothing against UK, in fact I'm something of an Anglophile culturally, but they need us way more than we need them.

    As for muddling through a la Mrs. Miniver, surely you exaggerate. The war years and for years after were years of genuine deprivation in Britain.

    Weekly food ration:

    Bacon & Ham 4 oz
    Other meat value of 1 shilling and 2 pence (equivalent to 2 chops)

    Butter 2 oz
    Cheese 2 oz
    Margarine 4 oz
    Cooking fat 4 oz
    Milk 3 pints
    Sugar 8 oz
    Preserves 1 lb every 2 months
    Tea 2 oz
    Eggs 1 fresh egg (plus allowance of dried egg)
    Sweets 12 oz every 4 weeks

    https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Rationing-in-World-War-Two/

    emphasis added.

    I've not been able to find a comparable source for the US, but offhand I remember my mom telling me they were rationed to 28 oz of meat per week. She didn't remember the rest. That's 4 ounces a day - compared to the British 4 oz plus two chops a week.

    There will be nothing like that, unless a natural disaster hits.

    Elizabeth Warren, Mayor Buttgig, AOC, and St. Greta all want more rationing than that here to save the planet. While they find in Wagyu beef and lobster.

  64. No.

    Poles in the UK are generally a working class manual labour type people.
    As a rule, subcons are above sullying their hands by actually performing any ‘real’ work – basically they are parasites upon the white man’s sweat. For that reason, subcons cannot and will not ‘replace Poles’.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Also quite a lot of young doctors and surgeons in UK right now, are gastarbaiters from Romania, Poland, etc.

    Poles in the UK are generally a working class manual labour
     
    I think most are middle class origin people. Just because of an open visa system, they could go to work as waiters in London, and the salary will be higher than school teachers in Poland.

    If there was a similar open borders policy of UK with Russia as UK is still engaged to with Poland (if Russia was part of the EU), then jobs to work in London in MacDonald's would be flooded with young Russian middle class people - because the salary differences can be really vast, and especially proletarian level jobs can receive higher salaries in Western Europe than many middle class and difficult jobs in Russia.

  65. @216
    So will they go off to the flags listed in their bio

    https://twitter.com/ChantayyJayy/status/1205254754022150144

    No, of course not.

    They are here to cause us misery.

    “trumps” huh huh

  66. Anonymous[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    The first thing they'll do is betray Brexiteers now they have their big majority, most Tory MPs are Remainers and have no need to play along with Brexit any more now they've won. I don't believe Brexit will happen in January in any form, Boris will find an excuse to delay it.

    No.

    The hard core ‘remainer’ Tory MPs were more or less all purged out of Parliament by Boris.
    The *vast* majority of Tory Party members – and voters – are pretty hardcore brexiters. They won’t let Boris get away with a stitch-up. They selected him precisely and overwhelmingly to deliver brexit.

  67. Subversion

  68. @216
    Worthless

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1205318763178070016

    -15% in 2 years!

    With anti-Jews, you lose.

  69. @Jane Plain
    "Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won’t complain."

    Why would it be good for us? I've nothing against UK, in fact I'm something of an Anglophile culturally, but they need us way more than we need them.

    As for muddling through a la Mrs. Miniver, surely you exaggerate. The war years and for years after were years of genuine deprivation in Britain.

    Weekly food ration:

    Bacon & Ham 4 oz
    Other meat value of 1 shilling and 2 pence (equivalent to 2 chops)

    Butter 2 oz
    Cheese 2 oz
    Margarine 4 oz
    Cooking fat 4 oz
    Milk 3 pints
    Sugar 8 oz
    Preserves 1 lb every 2 months
    Tea 2 oz
    Eggs 1 fresh egg (plus allowance of dried egg)
    Sweets 12 oz every 4 weeks

    https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Rationing-in-World-War-Two/

    emphasis added.

    I've not been able to find a comparable source for the US, but offhand I remember my mom telling me they were rationed to 28 oz of meat per week. She didn't remember the rest. That's 4 ounces a day - compared to the British 4 oz plus two chops a week.

    There will be nothing like that, unless a natural disaster hits.

    Cry me a river. The Brits never ate as good or as healthy as during wartime. “Privation” meant they couldn’t buy “nicer” things like tins of Argentine beef or tinned peas, nor afford all their sticky toffee pudding washed down with pints of sugary tea. Forced to grow their own veggies! Oh, the humanity!

    “Teeth’s a bother. Best rid of them” — old working class woman to Orwell, Road to Wigan Pier.

    • Agree: Liza
  70. @unit472
    Might be a bigger blow out than we think. Bill Blain the financial blogger, who leans Labour, pointed out that had not the Brexit Party stood for election in Sunderland the Tories would have won that seat. Will have to see how much Farage cost the Tories in Labour leaning districts when the final results are known but the fact that the Tories are winning historically Labour seats shows that the election there is mimicking the Trump 2016 election where blue collar voters or, as Peggy Noonan noted, its a case of the 'unprotected voters' revolting against the 'protected class'.

    The Tory party may have to jettison its traditional base and move to a more egalitarian stance and protect gig or zero contract workers and crack down on the rentier class. In any event this is punch to the stomach of the EU/globalists.

    Obviouly some electoral reform is necessary. No way should 5 million Scots have so many seats in Parliament.

    The problem is that in certain parts of the UK, the Conservatives are so despised to the extent they haven’t won in 100 years or more. Unlike the US there is no opportunity to ticket split, just the chance on a semi regular basis to vote for a single MP.

    So by having Farage’s party, you can vote for him without the stigma of voting Conservative.

    So you can’t get “Reagan Democrats” in the UK system. At best in the devolved regional parliaments you could vote a split ticket, but England doesn’t have a devolved parliament.

    As good as the results are today, the UK remains a secular wasteland with no signs of revival. There’s something wrong about Anglicans being out-preached by Jews in their own country.

    • Agree: houston 1992
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    There’s something wrong about Anglicans being out-preached by Jews in their own country.
     
    What is this referring to?
  71. @Desiderius
    And West Virginia has hated Republicans my whole life (and long before, since the Rs went from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Dewey) for the same reason. Alot of us have roots that go back to those Welsh mines.

    And West Virginia has hated Republicans my whole life (and long before, since the Rs went from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Dewey) for the same reason. Alot of us have roots that go back to those Welsh mines.

    Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan carried the state after serving a term. W carried the state both times.

    The “party of Dewey” was cleaner and more benign than the “party of Lincoln”. They owed Lincoln their statehood, but little else.

    My brother-in-law’s father was a lifelong West Virginian named for FDR (eww…), but the state has moved on. The Mountaineer has learned of the Third Great Lie, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.”

    Also, poverty is now a feature rather than a bug. Keeps the state white.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans#Geographic_distribution

    Look at East Virginia!

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I haven’t lived there for twenty years, and didn’t grow up there, but both my parents did and their parents, etc, back to the 1800s. One great, great grandfather spent time in prison as a result of events surrounding the Matewan War, great-grandfather (other side) spent another twenty years in the mines after surviving Black Lung in his forties. My grandfathers made the transition into the UMC (DuPont engineer/medium-sized business owner) and thus R voting, but they were/are (see Manchin) a minority.

    Poverty, whatever. Almost heaven. But local/state/congressional politics have been dominated by yellow dog Ds for generations, especially in the mining areas.
  72. @Jane Plain
    "Arguably an independent Britain (or England) would be closer to the USA, which is probably good for us Yanks, so I won’t complain."

    Why would it be good for us? I've nothing against UK, in fact I'm something of an Anglophile culturally, but they need us way more than we need them.

    As for muddling through a la Mrs. Miniver, surely you exaggerate. The war years and for years after were years of genuine deprivation in Britain.

    Weekly food ration:

    Bacon & Ham 4 oz
    Other meat value of 1 shilling and 2 pence (equivalent to 2 chops)

    Butter 2 oz
    Cheese 2 oz
    Margarine 4 oz
    Cooking fat 4 oz
    Milk 3 pints
    Sugar 8 oz
    Preserves 1 lb every 2 months
    Tea 2 oz
    Eggs 1 fresh egg (plus allowance of dried egg)
    Sweets 12 oz every 4 weeks

    https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Rationing-in-World-War-Two/

    emphasis added.

    I've not been able to find a comparable source for the US, but offhand I remember my mom telling me they were rationed to 28 oz of meat per week. She didn't remember the rest. That's 4 ounces a day - compared to the British 4 oz plus two chops a week.

    There will be nothing like that, unless a natural disaster hits.

  73. @Anonymous
    The first thing they'll do is betray Brexiteers now they have their big majority, most Tory MPs are Remainers and have no need to play along with Brexit any more now they've won. I don't believe Brexit will happen in January in any form, Boris will find an excuse to delay it.

    Nicola Sturgeon may help him delay it after the SNP gains tonight.

  74. @Whiskey
    Glad to be wrong. But my impression is that most of the North is Muslim. That should equal Labor.

    UK is almost 90% white people (racially North European people), although the trend will be declining. Still you should not confuse trends, with current reality. Perhaps in 2089, it will be a brown country. But it is still 2019.

    And English high bourgeoisie is probably around 90% white (I assume, from looking at videos of high bourgeois schools).

    However, there are very high rates of black and brown people in certain areas, which are especially places where tourists and journalists will visit (e.g. near airports, train stations, areas of London, etc), and so these people report that it is a brown Muslim country.

    (I have also visited some brown areas in UK, mainly London – and these areas still do not seem at all dangerous; it is Western Europe; not America).

    This is the kind of scene you see in a middle class UK city – (it’s not the Islamist country they claim in either American or Russian trashy television)

  75. @Anonymous
    No.

    Poles in the UK are generally a working class manual labour type people.
    As a rule, subcons are above sullying their hands by actually performing any 'real' work - basically they are parasites upon the white man's sweat. For that reason, subcons cannot and will not 'replace Poles'.

    Also quite a lot of young doctors and surgeons in UK right now, are gastarbaiters from Romania, Poland, etc.

    Poles in the UK are generally a working class manual labour

    I think most are middle class origin people. Just because of an open visa system, they could go to work as waiters in London, and the salary will be higher than school teachers in Poland.

    If there was a similar open borders policy of UK with Russia as UK is still engaged to with Poland (if Russia was part of the EU), then jobs to work in London in MacDonald’s would be flooded with young Russian middle class people – because the salary differences can be really vast, and especially proletarian level jobs can receive higher salaries in Western Europe than many middle class and difficult jobs in Russia.

  76. Cuck 1 beats Cuck 2

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    It’s a process.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    It's Polling Day, and on Polling Day you...
     
    Miscegenate?

    Don't worry. That couple looks in no hurry to reproduce.
    , @Dmitry
    It's an recreating a scene of a film - "Love Actually" (the black actor looks accurate, and so is a Sony hi-fi behind their sofa, but the girl is less beautiful and he walks around a less attractive street of London).

    Here is the scene of this film "Love Actually".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7u6bMBlCXw

    And here is their recreation of this film:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj-YK3JJCIU

  77. @SFG
    The Commies in Weimar Germany had the term 'Social Fascism' for the social democratic parties. The idea being that anything short of full communism was just the same as fascism.

    Yeah, that had to be a nasty wake-up call.

    To be fair, I lump Communists, Socialists, and Democrats together these days.

  78. @Reg Cæsar

    And West Virginia has hated Republicans my whole life (and long before, since the Rs went from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Dewey) for the same reason. Alot of us have roots that go back to those Welsh mines.
     
    Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan carried the state after serving a term. W carried the state both times.

    The "party of Dewey" was cleaner and more benign than the "party of Lincoln". They owed Lincoln their statehood, but little else.

    My brother-in-law's father was a lifelong West Virginian named for FDR (eww...), but the state has moved on. The Mountaineer has learned of the Third Great Lie, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

    Also, poverty is now a feature rather than a bug. Keeps the state white.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans#Geographic_distribution

    Look at East Virginia!

    I haven’t lived there for twenty years, and didn’t grow up there, but both my parents did and their parents, etc, back to the 1800s. One great, great grandfather spent time in prison as a result of events surrounding the Matewan War, great-grandfather (other side) spent another twenty years in the mines after surviving Black Lung in his forties. My grandfathers made the transition into the UMC (DuPont engineer/medium-sized business owner) and thus R voting, but they were/are (see Manchin) a minority.

    Poverty, whatever. Almost heaven. But local/state/congressional politics have been dominated by yellow dog Ds for generations, especially in the mining areas.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    1916 was more typical. The vote was so close that one of Wilson's electors was able to surpass one of Hughes's. Voters chose each of the electors individually, and the Republican won seven of the eight.
    , @Hibernian

    (see Manchin)
     
    Manchin in 2018 won, as an incumbent, by a small (not cliff hanging) margin over the state AG Pat Morrisey. There was a lot of talk about Morrisey being a transplant from New Jersey, but people were kind enough (or whatever) not to mention (at least not to speak of) that he was born in... ...wait for it... ...Brooklyn.
  79. When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference?

    I don’t know exactly how immigration works in Britain, but suppose there’s some sort of immigration cap. Right now that cap only applies to people from non-EU countries, since anyone from the EU can move to Britain without permission. Once Britain is out of the EU Europeans will, presumably, have to apply to immigrate under said cap. That would mean fewer non-Europeans arriving each year.

    That assumes there is any type of limit on the number of people who can migrate, and that Parliament doesn’t simply raise the cap after Brexit. Not knowing enough about British immigration law I wouldn’t know, but it doesn’t seem to me an absolute given that non-white immigration will increase. It may increase as a share of total immigration, but in absolute numbers could fall, perhaps significantly. Which would mean that they managed to have an election that cut non-white immigration without ever having to talk about it in those terms.

    • Replies: @houston 1992
    India, China, BRICS, Africa will demand more immigration visas to the UK in exchange for "free-trade" agreements that EU withdrawal dissolves. Boris never promised that "if you like your free trade deal under the EU, then you can keep your free trade deal without inviting the world."

    The visas may take the form of low threshold investment visas, family reunification, student visas with rights to seek employment and stay for 2-3 years.....and then have it renewed. (Somehow, White South Africans will find themselves ineligible.....)

    His Home Secretary appointment will give us insight into his attitude towards immigration.

    Alexander "Boris" Johnson may be enjoying his 15 minutes of glory. But , this soon shall pass. Besides BREXIT there is the economy e.g. Nissan, Peugeot/Vauxhall will probably shut down car assembly facilities in the next 2 years. Honda has said they will leave by 2021. Electric transition, consolidation, new trade deals

    Services: how does he get a deal to keep the financial services open and trading with the EU? at a high price....
  80. @Anonymous
    Cuck 1 beats Cuck 2

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1205132803035275264

    It’s a process.

  81. I guess if I were British and strongly against Brexit I would have voted for Labour, and if I were strongly for Brexit I would have voted Tory. If I had no strong opinion on it, however, I imagine I would have been more peeved at the raw disrespect for democracy by the people who will stop at nothing to keep Brexit from happening. Today they’re coming for someone else’s right to self-determination. Tomorrow they’re coming for yours. Get Brexit done and shut the hell up.

  82. @Matra
    (Britain is not a backward, low tech place like California where vote counting goes on for several weeks.)

    Not just Britain, just about every country counts the votes fast. American parochialism means very few Americans are aware of this and therefore too trusting about the integrity of their own elections.

    Trusting in the integrity of our elections? Not anyone I know.

  83. Anon[256] • Disclaimer says:

    The thing that’s really impressive is that its two leftist leaders are out. Corbyn says he’s standing down, and Jo Swenson, Lib Dem leader, lost her own seat. Labour and Lib Dems lost big.

    Johnson now has an absolute majority of seats and he can do what he wants. Even if you add Labour, Lib Dem, and Scottish Nationalists together, they don’t have enough votes to stop him.

  84. @Desiderius
    I haven’t lived there for twenty years, and didn’t grow up there, but both my parents did and their parents, etc, back to the 1800s. One great, great grandfather spent time in prison as a result of events surrounding the Matewan War, great-grandfather (other side) spent another twenty years in the mines after surviving Black Lung in his forties. My grandfathers made the transition into the UMC (DuPont engineer/medium-sized business owner) and thus R voting, but they were/are (see Manchin) a minority.

    Poverty, whatever. Almost heaven. But local/state/congressional politics have been dominated by yellow dog Ds for generations, especially in the mining areas.

    1916 was more typical. The vote was so close that one of Wilson’s electors was able to surpass one of Hughes’s. Voters chose each of the electors individually, and the Republican won seven of the eight.

  85. Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch will be represented by a Tory for the first time since 1987.

    General Election 2019 result for Ynys Môn: Conservatives win Anglesey

    The seat was held by Labour since 2001, and Plaid Cymru before that. It flipped because a lot of quid were:

    “How will I vote? I’ll toss a coin the night before maybe. Genuinely I don’t know.”

    General election 2019: Focus on Ynys Môn

    The Ynys Mon constituency has multiple claims to fame.

    It was the first rural seat in Britain to be won by Labour, the first Welsh constituency to elect a woman and is the only Welsh constituency to have been held by all four major Welsh parties.

  86. @Anonymous
    Cuck 1 beats Cuck 2

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1205132803035275264

    It’s Polling Day, and on Polling Day you…

    Miscegenate?

    Don’t worry. That couple looks in no hurry to reproduce.

  87. @Anonymous
    Cuck 1 beats Cuck 2

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1205132803035275264

    It’s an recreating a scene of a film – “Love Actually” (the black actor looks accurate, and so is a Sony hi-fi behind their sofa, but the girl is less beautiful and he walks around a less attractive street of London).

    Here is the scene of this film “Love Actually”.

    And here is their recreation of this film:

  88. Seen on Twitter: “The nation has lost faith in its celebrities.”

  89. Anon[256] • Disclaimer says:

    One oddity I notice from the British election. Half the votes Labour lost went straight to the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems actually gained about 1.5 million votes in this election over their last election, but bizarrely, they haven’t gained any seats from it. It all happened in voting districts that were already were majority Tory. (Presumably these were places that had gentrified the old working class–and natural Labour supporters–right out and they were replaced by left-leaning upper middle class types).

    The Scottish Nationalists gained at least 250K votes, presumably from Labour, but the lowlands and northeast Scotland voted Tory, not SNP. I suspect that means the support for Scottish succession is weaker than it looks. The wealthier areas don’t look like they want to leave. The Greens gained about 300K votes, too, presumably all from Labour. The rest of the Labour loses went right to the Tories, and if you flip a Labour voter to Tory, I suspect he’s likely to stay.

    Another oddity I noticed is that the UK has had only 1 Labour prime minister since 1979, namely Tony Blair. Except for him, the last forty years has seen the PM slot become a Tory fiefdom.

    Jeremy Corbyn lost 20% of his votes if you compare his results to the last election. Considering that these same people voted for him in 2017, (only 2 years ago) they must have decided that he’d gone completely off the rails, or they’d become very disillusioned with Labour in the last two years. That’s quite a bolt.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that Lib Dems almost _always_ get the fuzzy end of the lollipop when it comes to converting votes into seats in Parliament.

    I don't know why, though.

    , @(((They))) Live
    Poor old Gordan Brown :-(

    As for the Lib Dems yes thats the problem with the voting system
    , @res

    Another oddity I noticed is that the UK has had only 1 Labour prime minister since 1979, namely Tony Blair. Except for him, the last forty years has seen the PM slot become a Tory fiefdom.
     
    Gordon Brown (2007-2010)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom

    Though perhaps you meant something like "won a contested election"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown
  90. @Anon
    One oddity I notice from the British election. Half the votes Labour lost went straight to the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems actually gained about 1.5 million votes in this election over their last election, but bizarrely, they haven't gained any seats from it. It all happened in voting districts that were already were majority Tory. (Presumably these were places that had gentrified the old working class--and natural Labour supporters--right out and they were replaced by left-leaning upper middle class types).

    The Scottish Nationalists gained at least 250K votes, presumably from Labour, but the lowlands and northeast Scotland voted Tory, not SNP. I suspect that means the support for Scottish succession is weaker than it looks. The wealthier areas don't look like they want to leave. The Greens gained about 300K votes, too, presumably all from Labour. The rest of the Labour loses went right to the Tories, and if you flip a Labour voter to Tory, I suspect he's likely to stay.

    Another oddity I noticed is that the UK has had only 1 Labour prime minister since 1979, namely Tony Blair. Except for him, the last forty years has seen the PM slot become a Tory fiefdom.

    Jeremy Corbyn lost 20% of his votes if you compare his results to the last election. Considering that these same people voted for him in 2017, (only 2 years ago) they must have decided that he'd gone completely off the rails, or they'd become very disillusioned with Labour in the last two years. That's quite a bolt.

    My vague impression is that Lib Dems almost _always_ get the fuzzy end of the lollipop when it comes to converting votes into seats in Parliament.

    I don’t know why, though.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Put simply the winner-takes-all first-past-the-post voting system based on individual parliamentary constituencies. Nationwide, the aggregated Liberal vote is fairly substantial, but it is quite evenly distributed and diffused, and thus nullified.
    The SNP, on the other hand, has a small aggregated vote, but it's concentrated in relatively few constituencies.

    Basically it's an outmoded f*cked up system which is clearly unfair and unfit for 21st century British politics. As a hint to its persistence, one must note that with a few minor hiccups, its kept the Conservative Party going for nigh on 400 years, and holding ultimate power for most of the 20th century.
    , @Jack D
    Parliamentary elections are essentially the same thing as elections to the House of Representatives in the US, with the added twist that the House Majority Leader gets to be President. Some 3rd party could get 25% of the vote in every Congressional District in the US and yet end up with not a single seat in Congress.
  91. The Labour party. Britain’s official race replacement party of traitors.

  92. Anon[256] • Disclaimer says:

    Nigel Farage is giving himself credit for taking votes away from Labour in Labour strongholds, thus flipping them Tory, but my samples indicate that the Labour votes actually went to Lib Dems and other leftist parties, not so much to Farange. It was Corbyn himself who did the most damage to Labour, not Farange.

    • Replies: @houston 1992
    just getting Labor voters to vote Liberal, was almost as good as having them vote Tory. Tactical voting that send the Labor party a message w/o voting Tory. Farage claims may be real
  93. @Reg Cæsar

    ...to lead Britain through Brexit in January, its most momentous transition since World War II.
     
    Even more momentous than joining the EU four decades ago?

    Oh, wait... the UK didn't join the EU. They thought they were joining the EEC.

    Silly them. Perhaps they should have listened to their Scottish minority. Joining Europe could only turn out bad.

    It was that Scottish minority (by supporting Labour) that was so responsible for flooding England with non-whites sport.

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Strangely enough Scotland, which has returned one solitary forlorn Labour MP, was until year 2015 an impregnable redoubt of Labour Party power. Labour's little fiefdom, of which they took the voters as fools.

    Ironically, just as New Labour's (Economist) insane immigration policy is the ultimate cause of the political car crash we see today, New Labour's addled brained establishment of Scottish devolution is the cause of their demise and extirpation in Scotland.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    It was that Scottish minority (by supporting Labour) that was so responsible for flooding England with non-whites sport.
     
    Their pædo's misbehavior also cost Englismen their centuries-old right to own pistols.

    But that's not the point. It's that Scots warned everyone else about joining Europe and now they want to stay in. Why so fickle? Was grandpa wrong?

    The English have finally decided that the Scots were right. So where are the Scots today? Hiding behind cairns?
  94. @UnladenSwallow

    When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference?
     
    I don't know exactly how immigration works in Britain, but suppose there's some sort of immigration cap. Right now that cap only applies to people from non-EU countries, since anyone from the EU can move to Britain without permission. Once Britain is out of the EU Europeans will, presumably, have to apply to immigrate under said cap. That would mean fewer non-Europeans arriving each year.

    That assumes there is any type of limit on the number of people who can migrate, and that Parliament doesn't simply raise the cap after Brexit. Not knowing enough about British immigration law I wouldn't know, but it doesn't seem to me an absolute given that non-white immigration will increase. It may increase as a share of total immigration, but in absolute numbers could fall, perhaps significantly. Which would mean that they managed to have an election that cut non-white immigration without ever having to talk about it in those terms.

    India, China, BRICS, Africa will demand more immigration visas to the UK in exchange for “free-trade” agreements that EU withdrawal dissolves. Boris never promised that “if you like your free trade deal under the EU, then you can keep your free trade deal without inviting the world.”

    The visas may take the form of low threshold investment visas, family reunification, student visas with rights to seek employment and stay for 2-3 years…..and then have it renewed. (Somehow, White South Africans will find themselves ineligible…..)

    His Home Secretary appointment will give us insight into his attitude towards immigration.

    Alexander “Boris” Johnson may be enjoying his 15 minutes of glory. But , this soon shall pass. Besides BREXIT there is the economy e.g. Nissan, Peugeot/Vauxhall will probably shut down car assembly facilities in the next 2 years. Honda has said they will leave by 2021. Electric transition, consolidation, new trade deals

    Services: how does he get a deal to keep the financial services open and trading with the EU? at a high price….

    • Replies: @A123

    Services: how does he get a deal to keep the financial services open and trading with the EU? at a high price….
     
    Actually it is a fairly easy lift. The EU is an undesirable place to do business, and it is becoming riskier every day.

    -- The UK can set bank taxation rates that are lower than Ireland. As a deterrent, this greatly limits the ability of the EU to inflict punitive costs against UK banks as a part of Brexit.

    -- The UK legal system is faster and more predictable than is available in the EU.

    -- The EU budget is going to take a huge shot when the UK stops paying in. Is Germany going to give more to the EU? Or, will the EU have to cut spending?

    -- The Euro currency zone is struggling for anything vaguely resembling follow through (1). If the EU cuts transfer payments out to the periphery, those nations will be motivated to enact additional policies that repudiate the 'German Austerity' model.

    Foreign Minister Luigi Di Maio, leader of the anti-establishment Five Star Movement that’s a partner in Conte’s second government, has denounced the reforms as penalizing the country. Italy’s objections to changes such as limiting the amount of sovereign bond holdings of banks, earlier this month delayed the approval of a long-planned overhaul of the European Stability Mechanism, the euro area’s bailout fund.
     
    -- Germany's economy is showing leading indicators of a substantial recession. Negative interest rates and the burden of keeping Deutsche Bank alive are taking their toll.

    “The great order book deflation in German industry continues. In fact, it looks as if 2019 wil be the second year in a row in which new orders have fallen. In 2018, orders dropped by 0.4% on average. Currently, 2019 is on track to record a monthly average drop of some 0.6%.”

    “All of this means that the discrepancy between thin order books and high inventories is now bigger than at the start of the mini-recession in 2012 and does not bode well for industrial production in coming months.”
     
    The immediate post-Brexit future for the EU is riddled with landmines. International businesses will avoid those risks by keeping most of their financial arms in New York or London.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-12-11/italy-s-conte-insists-on-red-lines-for-euro-area-reform-measures

    (2) https://www.fxstreet.com/amp/news/germany-industrial-orders-drop-in-october-ing-201912050801
  95. @Anon
    Nigel Farage is giving himself credit for taking votes away from Labour in Labour strongholds, thus flipping them Tory, but my samples indicate that the Labour votes actually went to Lib Dems and other leftist parties, not so much to Farange. It was Corbyn himself who did the most damage to Labour, not Farange.

    just getting Labor voters to vote Liberal, was almost as good as having them vote Tory. Tactical voting that send the Labor party a message w/o voting Tory. Farage claims may be real

  96. @Unobserved Observer
    If appears the Sailer Strategy does quite well in the UK judging from the way the white working class has been trending there.

    Yep, the political realignment, that almost happened in 2017, has now occurred. Johnson has won his Michigan and Pennsylvania. The important difference is there are now about fifty odd new MPs from these areas who will push the new agenda on Brexit and immigration.

    Notable the worst area for the Conservatives is immigrant dominated London.

  97. Anonymous[318] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that Lib Dems almost _always_ get the fuzzy end of the lollipop when it comes to converting votes into seats in Parliament.

    I don't know why, though.

    Put simply the winner-takes-all first-past-the-post voting system based on individual parliamentary constituencies. Nationwide, the aggregated Liberal vote is fairly substantial, but it is quite evenly distributed and diffused, and thus nullified.
    The SNP, on the other hand, has a small aggregated vote, but it’s concentrated in relatively few constituencies.

    Basically it’s an outmoded f*cked up system which is clearly unfair and unfit for 21st century British politics. As a hint to its persistence, one must note that with a few minor hiccups, its kept the Conservative Party going for nigh on 400 years, and holding ultimate power for most of the 20th century.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world's most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

    , @LondonBob
    People can tactically vote though, something the Lib Dems originally hoped they would benefit from this election. It is how Tony Blair won large majorities on a relatively small number of votes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Of course had the Conservatives opposed the invasion of Iraq Tony Blair would have really struggled in 2005.
  98. Anonymous[318] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous1963
    It was that Scottish minority (by supporting Labour) that was so responsible for flooding England with non-whites sport.

    Strangely enough Scotland, which has returned one solitary forlorn Labour MP, was until year 2015 an impregnable redoubt of Labour Party power. Labour’s little fiefdom, of which they took the voters as fools.

    Ironically, just as New Labour’s (Economist) insane immigration policy is the ultimate cause of the political car crash we see today, New Labour’s addled brained establishment of Scottish devolution is the cause of their demise and extirpation in Scotland.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Local>global
  99. @Desiderius
    And West Virginia has hated Republicans my whole life (and long before, since the Rs went from the Party of Lincoln to the Party of Dewey) for the same reason. Alot of us have roots that go back to those Welsh mines.

    Cannock Chase in the West Midlands was an ultra safe ex mining town for Labour, completely flipped over steadily at each election over the past thirty years with it now being an ultra safe Conservative seat.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000618

  100. @houston 1992
    India, China, BRICS, Africa will demand more immigration visas to the UK in exchange for "free-trade" agreements that EU withdrawal dissolves. Boris never promised that "if you like your free trade deal under the EU, then you can keep your free trade deal without inviting the world."

    The visas may take the form of low threshold investment visas, family reunification, student visas with rights to seek employment and stay for 2-3 years.....and then have it renewed. (Somehow, White South Africans will find themselves ineligible.....)

    His Home Secretary appointment will give us insight into his attitude towards immigration.

    Alexander "Boris" Johnson may be enjoying his 15 minutes of glory. But , this soon shall pass. Besides BREXIT there is the economy e.g. Nissan, Peugeot/Vauxhall will probably shut down car assembly facilities in the next 2 years. Honda has said they will leave by 2021. Electric transition, consolidation, new trade deals

    Services: how does he get a deal to keep the financial services open and trading with the EU? at a high price....

    Services: how does he get a deal to keep the financial services open and trading with the EU? at a high price….

    Actually it is a fairly easy lift. The EU is an undesirable place to do business, and it is becoming riskier every day.

    — The UK can set bank taxation rates that are lower than Ireland. As a deterrent, this greatly limits the ability of the EU to inflict punitive costs against UK banks as a part of Brexit.

    — The UK legal system is faster and more predictable than is available in the EU.

    — The EU budget is going to take a huge shot when the UK stops paying in. Is Germany going to give more to the EU? Or, will the EU have to cut spending?

    — The Euro currency zone is struggling for anything vaguely resembling follow through (1). If the EU cuts transfer payments out to the periphery, those nations will be motivated to enact additional policies that repudiate the ‘German Austerity’ model.

    Foreign Minister Luigi Di Maio, leader of the anti-establishment Five Star Movement that’s a partner in Conte’s second government, has denounced the reforms as penalizing the country. Italy’s objections to changes such as limiting the amount of sovereign bond holdings of banks, earlier this month delayed the approval of a long-planned overhaul of the European Stability Mechanism, the euro area’s bailout fund.

    — Germany’s economy is showing leading indicators of a substantial recession. Negative interest rates and the burden of keeping Deutsche Bank alive are taking their toll.

    “The great order book deflation in German industry continues. In fact, it looks as if 2019 wil be the second year in a row in which new orders have fallen. In 2018, orders dropped by 0.4% on average. Currently, 2019 is on track to record a monthly average drop of some 0.6%.”

    “All of this means that the discrepancy between thin order books and high inventories is now bigger than at the start of the mini-recession in 2012 and does not bode well for industrial production in coming months.”

    The immediate post-Brexit future for the EU is riddled with landmines. International businesses will avoid those risks by keeping most of their financial arms in New York or London.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-12-11/italy-s-conte-insists-on-red-lines-for-euro-area-reform-measures

    (2) https://www.fxstreet.com/amp/news/germany-industrial-orders-drop-in-october-ing-201912050801

  101. @Anonymous
    Put simply the winner-takes-all first-past-the-post voting system based on individual parliamentary constituencies. Nationwide, the aggregated Liberal vote is fairly substantial, but it is quite evenly distributed and diffused, and thus nullified.
    The SNP, on the other hand, has a small aggregated vote, but it's concentrated in relatively few constituencies.

    Basically it's an outmoded f*cked up system which is clearly unfair and unfit for 21st century British politics. As a hint to its persistence, one must note that with a few minor hiccups, its kept the Conservative Party going for nigh on 400 years, and holding ultimate power for most of the 20th century.

    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world’s most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

    • Replies: @georgesdelatour
    The modern LibDems are mainly a protest party to which soft Conservatives and soft Labourites lend their votes on an individual election basis. There’s just one condition: they must never go anywhere near government. As soon as the LibDems get involved in that whole government thing, half their voters desert them.

    They were in government from 2010-15, propping up David Cameron’s Conservatives, and it led to their vote collapsing in 2015. In this election, there were some traditional Labour voters who harangued the LibDems for propping up the Conservatives four years ago, even as those same voters decided to vote Conservative themselves yesterday.

    There’s an assumption that, since they’re supposedly centrists, the LibDems must also be moderate. In fact they’re more fanatical than Corbynite Trotskyists or free-market fundamentalist Tories, especially on Europe. Here is Guy Verhofstadt aggressively advocating for a European Empire to rapturous applause at the last LibDem conference:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY4FbDY0Czw

    The irony is, the Brits are most persuadable to the Remain argument when it’s framed in cynical, eurosceptic, balance-of-power terms. That’s how Harold Wilson managed to keep us in in 1975:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE
    , @Jonathan Mason

    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world’s most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

     

    Well, how many seats did the Whigs win in the US in 2016? In the post world war I era in Britain, the Labour Party, which had its origins in the trades union movement, overtook the Liberal Party as the main opposition to the Tories.

    So the Tories had the shires (rural, agricultural England and market towns) and Labour had the industrial cities, except for some wealthy enclaves in cities.

    This did not leave any natural territory for the Liberals. When they have won seats it has often been over local issues, or with candidates who were very popular locally, such as Clement Freud, who was a grandson of Sigmund Freud, and a celebrity chef and humorist.

    Incidentally, I have been following the impeachment hearings on the radio and am impressed at how passionately so many congressmen and women are defending the Constitution, but what exactly does the Constitution say about the right of political parties to organize elections?
    , @Anonymous
    Basically, the UK political system can only bear two competing political parties. The rise of the Labour Party - which was only formed as recently as 1900 - inversely mirrors the decline of the Liberal Party.
    , @James N. Kennett
    The UK has 650 geographical constituencies, corresponding to seats in the House of Commons, with an MP elected in each one by a first-past-the-post system. This arrangement tends to create a two-party system. The left-of-centre party switched from Liberal to Labour in the early 20th century. It is extremely difficult for a third party to break in. In the last 50 years, only the SNP has managed to do so, but obviously only in Scotland.

    The two main parties are less fragile than they appear from national totals of votes cast. Each one has "heartlands" where they nearly always win. For the Conservatives, these are relatively affluent rural or commuter-belt areas where people don't want to pay more tax. For Labour, they are industrial or post-industrial areas where the party offers the most handouts.

    In 1983 Labour was almost beaten into third place in total votes cast: 27.6% against 25.4% for the Liberal/SDP Alliance. The two parties won 209 and 23 seats respectively (the Conservatives won the election with 397 seats). The Labour Party should have died that year, but it was kept on life support by its heartlands. It took it 14 years to purge the hard left from the party, until it finally made itself electable again in 1997.

    The internal party dynamics of (real or perceived) extremism versus electable moderates means that often only one of the two main parties is electable at a given election. Labour party members elect the party leader. This arrangement was introduced by Ed Miliband, and Jeremy Corbyn was the first leader to be elected this way. Party members tend to be political activists, and may replace Corbyn with another Trotskyist, who will automatically lose the next election.

    , @anon
    Churchill killed the Liberal Party, first by ratting on the Tories in 1903, then Liberal warmongering that saw 880,000 Englishmen dead by 1919, then ratting on the Liberals in 1923 and being made Chancellor by the Tories as his reward.

    Churchill then spent the rest of his career turning the Conservatives into a Liberal Party, which is what they are today.
  102. @216
    Worthless

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1205318763178070016

    Rotherham: Lab HOLD

    LAB: 41.3% (-15.1)
    CON: 32.6% (+6.2)
    BREX: 17.2% (+17.2)
    LDEM: 5.9% (+1.3)
    OTH: 3.0% (+3.0)

    Turnout: 57.8%

    What share of voters were Muslims or etc.?

    Also — Why doesn’t the UK have runoffs for the top two vote getters? Brexit + Conservative has 49.8% in Rotherham, presumably enough to overcome the “Legacy Labour” + Muslim (etc.) vote, in a one-to-one matchup.

    • Agree: Houston 1992
    • Replies: @anon

    Why doesn’t the UK have runoffs for the top two vote getters? Brexit + Conservative has 49.8% in Rotherham, presumably enough to overcome the “Legacy Labour” + Muslim (etc.) vote, in a one-to-one matchup.
     
    Most of the Brexit Party voters were ex Labour voters.
    In a runoff, they would've headed back to Labour.

    If Australia's preferential system had been used, the Tories would've lost most Seats where they couldn't draw at least 48% of the vote, and Corbyn would be Prime Minister.
  103. anon[175] • Disclaimer says:

    The is the moment when Britain either saved itself or squandered the chance forever. The 1980 election in the United States was that moment for the Americans, and they squandered it. Now, the US is headed for eventual collapse. Someone like Hugo Chavez will be president in your lifetime, and they will then enact devastating social justice economic polices just as Venezuela did. You saw what happened there. Just take a look at all these ridiculous Green New Deal proposals that are really just financial transfer scheme reallocating money from one racial group to others; they’ve even admitted it in interviews. And that’s only the beginning. There will be more (free everything for illegals, abolishing immigration control … all things promoted by the democrat party this election cycle), and they will win the 2020 election according to all the polls! What happened today in the UK is what would be happening in the US now minus mass immigration. Instead, the US will soon get someone like Buttigieg. One day soon, you’ll get a Castro or a Booker or a Gillibrand or, God forbid, an AOC … or worse.

    All immigration must be stopped in the UK and demographic changed must be ended forever by force of law. Promoting or excusing the negative effects of immigration should be made a hate crime punishable by massive fines and imprisonment. Laws should be enacted restricting the ability of NGOs and billionaires to influence politics. The UK deepstate should also be set loose to destroy the finances of SJW rags like the Guardian and other outfits that promote immigration. The UK should also consider abrogating alliances with the US, the place where most of this toxic progressive hatred is coming from, and maybe also banning American media for good measure.

    Otherwise, in thirty years it will be impossible for the conservatives to win any national election just like the US republicans and racial / ethnic affiliation will be the primary determinant of voting. That’s not a country any Briton should aspire to live in. Demographically, the UK is where the US was back when Reagan was crushing it, maybe even better. Don’t replicate the complacency of the republicans and don’t let the corrupt donors take over your party. The US is now doomed, but you don’t have to go that route yourselves. Boris Johnson has the opportunity to go down as the greatest Prime Minister in history, even greater than Winston Churchill. Winston merely won a war. Boris could win the future. Don’t waste it.

    • Replies: @Houston 1992
    I agree with much of what you write, but do you trust B Johnson to perform ?
  104. @eah
    Some people are reacting badly.

    https://twitter.com/ulrikeguerot/status/1205257290250620929

    Could describe the whole country at this point really: “disabled because of illness” — alternatively, after reading down the thread: ‘Someone call the waaahmbulance’

  105. @Anonymous
    Put simply the winner-takes-all first-past-the-post voting system based on individual parliamentary constituencies. Nationwide, the aggregated Liberal vote is fairly substantial, but it is quite evenly distributed and diffused, and thus nullified.
    The SNP, on the other hand, has a small aggregated vote, but it's concentrated in relatively few constituencies.

    Basically it's an outmoded f*cked up system which is clearly unfair and unfit for 21st century British politics. As a hint to its persistence, one must note that with a few minor hiccups, its kept the Conservative Party going for nigh on 400 years, and holding ultimate power for most of the 20th century.

    People can tactically vote though, something the Lib Dems originally hoped they would benefit from this election. It is how Tony Blair won large majorities on a relatively small number of votes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Of course had the Conservatives opposed the invasion of Iraq Tony Blair would have really struggled in 2005.

  106. @A123

    FT had Labor poised to win.
     
    FT chose George Soros as their Person of the Year.

    It may have been a credible institution decades ago, but they are now relentlessly biased.

    PEACE 😇

    FT chose George Soros as their Person of the Year.
    It may have been a credible institution decades ago, but they are now relentlessly biased.

    Ha. The Economist urged Brits to vote for the “woke” Liberal Democrats because the Lib Dem’s values are that of 19th Century liberals!

    Extraordinarily voters ignored this wisdom – the Lib Dem leader even lost her seat.

  107. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail

    Rotherham: Lab HOLD

    LAB: 41.3% (-15.1)
    CON: 32.6% (+6.2)
    BREX: 17.2% (+17.2)
    LDEM: 5.9% (+1.3)
    OTH: 3.0% (+3.0)

    Turnout: 57.8%
     

    What share of voters were Muslims or etc.?

    Also --- Why doesn't the UK have runoffs for the top two vote getters? Brexit + Conservative has 49.8% in Rotherham, presumably enough to overcome the "Legacy Labour" + Muslim (etc.) vote, in a one-to-one matchup.

    Why doesn’t the UK have runoffs for the top two vote getters? Brexit + Conservative has 49.8% in Rotherham, presumably enough to overcome the “Legacy Labour” + Muslim (etc.) vote, in a one-to-one matchup.

    Most of the Brexit Party voters were ex Labour voters.
    In a runoff, they would’ve headed back to Labour.

    If Australia’s preferential system had been used, the Tories would’ve lost most Seats where they couldn’t draw at least 48% of the vote, and Corbyn would be Prime Minister.

    • Replies: @Hail
    The single-seat constituency model creates these distortions and incentives vote wasting and nonvoting (not so different than the US), and helps suppress the so-needed right-wing nationalist parties.

    Divide the UK into 15 electoral regions, each with 40 seats (600 seats); threshhold to take one seat per region thus at 2.5%.

    It's hard to say what effect this exactly have had, exactly, in this election; for one thing the Brexit Party would not have folded up shop, and would have taken a lot of seats.

  108. Anon[187] • Disclaimer says:

    When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference?

    He’ll do whatever he’s told to do by the people who control the Tory party.

    Treasurer of the Conservative Party

    Sir Ehud Sheleg 2019-present

    Sir Ehud “Udi” Sheleg (Hebrew: אהוד שלג‎; born November 1955) is a British-Israeli businessman, art dealer and political figure. […] Sheleg’s brother Ran was involved in a binary options scandal; Ehud claimed no knowledge. Commenting on the appointment of Sheleg as treasurer, Private Eye said, “Our special report earlier this year revealed not just Sheleg’s close relations with Moscow, hosting Russia’s ambassador at the height of post-Crimea-invasion sanctions in 2015, but also his major deal with organised-crime-connected figures in establishing a Cyprus outlet of Halcyon the same year. At a minimum, due diligence appears not to be Sheleg’s strong suit. […] Private Eye also wrote about Sheleg’s track record of “unfiled accounts, unpaid suppliers, investigations and VAT penalties from HM Customs and Excise, along with millions of pounds in dodged tax”. His habit of dissolving companies and avoiding liabilities earned him the nickname “Alka Seltzer”.

    Sir Mick Davis 2016-2019

    Sir Mick Davis was born to a South African Jewish family on 15 February 1958. He was educated at Theodor Herzl School, Port Elizabeth, South Africa.[…] From 2009 to 2017 Davis was president of the council of members and chairman of the board of trustees of the Jewish Leadership Council of the United Kingdom, the umbrella body of the largest Jewish charities and Institutions in the UK responsible for the strategic imperatives of UK Jewry. He is also Chairman of the Holocaust Memorial Commission of the United Kingdom. […] In February 2018 Davis came under criticism for allegedly participating in a cover-up in 2013 of alleged financial impropriety at the Jewish Leadership Council charity where he was Chair.

  109. @eah
    Some people are reacting badly.

    https://twitter.com/ulrikeguerot/status/1205257290250620929

    Unsurprisingly, she deleted it — but it has been captured for posterity.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The felt need to delete = progress. Conflation of snobbery/bigotry with virtue (to be signaled) is (hopefully becoming was) dangerous.
  110. @216
    We are dealing with an academic left reading straight out of the Adorno playbook.

    Denial of our rights of self-determination.

    You know, the thing World Wars were fought over.

    This is the attitude that pervades our establishment.

    Denial of our rights of self-determination.

    Actually, she would never do something like that — she’s an upstanding perfesser, and an expert on democracy — it says so right in her Twitter account: “Prof. for European Policy & Study of Democracy @Donau_Uni & Founder of European Democracy Lab @EuDemLab.”

  111. @Desiderius
    I haven’t lived there for twenty years, and didn’t grow up there, but both my parents did and their parents, etc, back to the 1800s. One great, great grandfather spent time in prison as a result of events surrounding the Matewan War, great-grandfather (other side) spent another twenty years in the mines after surviving Black Lung in his forties. My grandfathers made the transition into the UMC (DuPont engineer/medium-sized business owner) and thus R voting, but they were/are (see Manchin) a minority.

    Poverty, whatever. Almost heaven. But local/state/congressional politics have been dominated by yellow dog Ds for generations, especially in the mining areas.

    (see Manchin)

    Manchin in 2018 won, as an incumbent, by a small (not cliff hanging) margin over the state AG Pat Morrisey. There was a lot of talk about Morrisey being a transplant from New Jersey, but people were kind enough (or whatever) not to mention (at least not to speak of) that he was born in… …wait for it… …Brooklyn.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Rs need to pull their heads out of their asses and stop running carpetbaggers (see also Bevin in KY). Look forward to utterly crushing Wokeianity so we can safely punish this nonsense by voting D as necessary again.
  112. @216
    So will they go off to the flags listed in their bio

    https://twitter.com/ChantayyJayy/status/1205254754022150144

    No, of course not.

    They are here to cause us misery.

    Apparently “the working class” is white.

  113. @Steve Sailer
    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world's most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

    The modern LibDems are mainly a protest party to which soft Conservatives and soft Labourites lend their votes on an individual election basis. There’s just one condition: they must never go anywhere near government. As soon as the LibDems get involved in that whole government thing, half their voters desert them.

    They were in government from 2010-15, propping up David Cameron’s Conservatives, and it led to their vote collapsing in 2015. In this election, there were some traditional Labour voters who harangued the LibDems for propping up the Conservatives four years ago, even as those same voters decided to vote Conservative themselves yesterday.

    There’s an assumption that, since they’re supposedly centrists, the LibDems must also be moderate. In fact they’re more fanatical than Corbynite Trotskyists or free-market fundamentalist Tories, especially on Europe. Here is Guy Verhofstadt aggressively advocating for a European Empire to rapturous applause at the last LibDem conference:

    The irony is, the Brits are most persuadable to the Remain argument when it’s framed in cynical, eurosceptic, balance-of-power terms. That’s how Harold Wilson managed to keep us in in 1975:

  114. @anon

    Why doesn’t the UK have runoffs for the top two vote getters? Brexit + Conservative has 49.8% in Rotherham, presumably enough to overcome the “Legacy Labour” + Muslim (etc.) vote, in a one-to-one matchup.
     
    Most of the Brexit Party voters were ex Labour voters.
    In a runoff, they would've headed back to Labour.

    If Australia's preferential system had been used, the Tories would've lost most Seats where they couldn't draw at least 48% of the vote, and Corbyn would be Prime Minister.

    The single-seat constituency model creates these distortions and incentives vote wasting and nonvoting (not so different than the US), and helps suppress the so-needed right-wing nationalist parties.

    Divide the UK into 15 electoral regions, each with 40 seats (600 seats); threshhold to take one seat per region thus at 2.5%.

    It’s hard to say what effect this exactly have had, exactly, in this election; for one thing the Brexit Party would not have folded up shop, and would have taken a lot of seats.

    • Replies: @anon
    Sounds okay.
    With that model, TBP might have won 4 Seats, the Green Party 14 Seats, and the Lib Dems about 40 Seats.
    , @Jack D
    The problem with proportional representation system is that it then becomes difficult for any one party to have a majority. So in order to rule, they need to form coalitions. These coalitions don't always make a lot of sense - you need to get to 50+% so you take whomever you can get. And in order to get them into your coalition you often have to offer them corrupt gibmedats - control over key ministries that they can use as patronage farms, concessions over their pet issues, etc. It's generally not a good idea. Project this system over to the US and you have blacks as a fringe coalition partner holding even more power than they do over the Democrats and evangelicals having more power over the Republicans.

    And sometimes you can never get to 50+% and have to keep holding election after election until you do.

  115. @Reg Cæsar
    Interesting admission:

    “We are not in this country just to take your government money,” said Tresor Mugwaneza, a college student who came to the U.S. from Congo.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-dakota-county-narrowly-votes-continue-accepting-refugees-n1099061
     
    My emphasis.

    Wow.

    I’m sure the gov’t of the Congo will never be stupid enough to subsidize Westerners moving in. Looks like they win and we lose.

    If there is a future study of what happened to nice America, this would be a trenchant piece.

    [Trump] ordered that refugees would be resettled in jurisdictions where state and local governments consented to receive them.

    So they had no say before, of course, but the nice people of North Dakota can’t say “no” now in any public capacity. There were a few tepid words from the mayor about the cost of the program, but it was drowned out by “we have to be nice”; “we are all immigrants”; “we need workers”.

    She said her aunt and her husband and their four children “ran from Nigeria to seek protection,”…

    It’s around 7000 miles from Nigeria to North Dakota; let’s reflect some more on the ability of modern transportation and it’s supporting infrastructure to mainline an extended family straight into a nice place.

    If they had to really run that far for protection, I’d say the doomsday clock’s hammer is moving down to strike midnight.

  116. @Steve Sailer
    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world's most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world’s most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

    Well, how many seats did the Whigs win in the US in 2016? In the post world war I era in Britain, the Labour Party, which had its origins in the trades union movement, overtook the Liberal Party as the main opposition to the Tories.

    So the Tories had the shires (rural, agricultural England and market towns) and Labour had the industrial cities, except for some wealthy enclaves in cities.

    This did not leave any natural territory for the Liberals. When they have won seats it has often been over local issues, or with candidates who were very popular locally, such as Clement Freud, who was a grandson of Sigmund Freud, and a celebrity chef and humorist.

    Incidentally, I have been following the impeachment hearings on the radio and am impressed at how passionately so many congressmen and women are defending the Constitution, but what exactly does the Constitution say about the right of political parties to organize elections?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    Freud was a brilliant polymath and a fascinating character. From Wikepedia, but edited for length and US vocabulary. He became a naturalized British citizen in 1939 at the age of 15 on the second day of World War II.

    During World War II Freud joined the Royal Ulster Rifles and served in the ranks. He acted as an aide to Field Marshal Montgomery. He worked at the Nuremberg Trials and in 1947 was commissioned as an officer.

    While running a post-war nightclub, he met a newspaper editor who gave him a job as a sports journalist. From there he became an award-winning food and drink writer, writing columns for many publications. On his marriage to an English woman, he converted to Church of England.

    Freud stood in the 1973 Isle of Ely by-election, becoming the Liberal Member of Parliament for that constituency.


    His autobiography, Freud Ego, recalls his election win, and shortly after, when asked by his wife June, "Why aren't you looking happier?", he wrote "It suddenly occurred to me that after nine years of fame I now had something solid about which to be famous... and cheered up no end."

    Freud was a betting man and in his column in the Racing Post of 23 August 2006, he wrote about his election to Parliament in a by-election: "Politically, I was an anti-Conservative unable to join a Labour party hell-bent on nationalising everything that moved, so when a by-election occurred in East Anglia, where I lived and live, I stood as a Liberal and was fortunate in getting in. Ladbrokes quoted me at 33–1 in this three-horse contest, so Ladbrokes paid for me to have rather more secretarial and research staff than other MPs, which helped to keep me in for five parliaments."

    Freud's enthusiasm for horse racing went as far as challenging Sir Hugh Fraser, then chairman of Harrods, to a horse race at Haydock in 1972. Freud trained for three months and lost some five stone (70 lbs) for the event. Although Fraser, a country gentleman, was seen as a much better prospect, the two made a bet for £1,000-a-side. Freud used the long odds to his advantage, however, and shrewdly placed a large side bet on himself. Freud won the race and made a great deal of money.

    Freud was known for his wit and was a regular on BBC radio panel shows.

    He visited China with a delegation of MPs, including Winston Churchill, the grandson of the wartime prime minister. When Churchill was given the best room in the hotel, on account of his lineage, Freud declared it was the first time in his life that he had been "out-grandfathered".

    So that is what it takes to win a seat as a Liberal MP.

    Posthumously Freud, who died in 2009, was denounced as a sexual predator who had failed to control his id and officially declared to be a non person.

    .... Next installment in the post World War II immigrant British-Jewish Member of Parliament series: Robert Maxwell MP.
    , @Art Deco
    Well, how many seats did the Whigs win in the US in 2016?

    'Whig' as used in this country between 1832 and 1856 wasn't equivalent to Revolutionary-era usage or British usage. The Whig Party was a grab bag of factions opposed to the prevailing currents in the Democratic Party. They adopted the name in 1836 to present themselves as rebels contra 'King Andrew' Jackson. The party fell apart when a different array of conflicts came to the fore.

    , @Jack D

    but what exactly does the Constitution say about the right of political parties to organize elections
     
    1. What's your point?

    2. The Constitution says nothing about political parties period. The Founders were kind of hoping against hope that political parties wouldn't even exist and didn't make any express provision for them. Federalist Paper #10 derides parties as "factions" and the Constitution was supposed to check rather than aid the growth of the party system.
  117. @Steve Sailer
    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world's most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

    Basically, the UK political system can only bear two competing political parties. The rise of the Labour Party – which was only formed as recently as 1900 – inversely mirrors the decline of the Liberal Party.

  118. @Hibernian

    (see Manchin)
     
    Manchin in 2018 won, as an incumbent, by a small (not cliff hanging) margin over the state AG Pat Morrisey. There was a lot of talk about Morrisey being a transplant from New Jersey, but people were kind enough (or whatever) not to mention (at least not to speak of) that he was born in... ...wait for it... ...Brooklyn.

    Rs need to pull their heads out of their asses and stop running carpetbaggers (see also Bevin in KY). Look forward to utterly crushing Wokeianity so we can safely punish this nonsense by voting D as necessary again.

  119. @eah
    Unsurprisingly, she deleted it -- but it has been captured for posterity.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELoBUXtWoAApsdV.png

    The felt need to delete = progress. Conflation of snobbery/bigotry with virtue (to be signaled) is (hopefully becoming was) dangerous.

  120. @Anonymous
    Strangely enough Scotland, which has returned one solitary forlorn Labour MP, was until year 2015 an impregnable redoubt of Labour Party power. Labour's little fiefdom, of which they took the voters as fools.

    Ironically, just as New Labour's (Economist) insane immigration policy is the ultimate cause of the political car crash we see today, New Labour's addled brained establishment of Scottish devolution is the cause of their demise and extirpation in Scotland.

    Local>global

  121. @Jonathan Mason

    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world’s most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

     

    Well, how many seats did the Whigs win in the US in 2016? In the post world war I era in Britain, the Labour Party, which had its origins in the trades union movement, overtook the Liberal Party as the main opposition to the Tories.

    So the Tories had the shires (rural, agricultural England and market towns) and Labour had the industrial cities, except for some wealthy enclaves in cities.

    This did not leave any natural territory for the Liberals. When they have won seats it has often been over local issues, or with candidates who were very popular locally, such as Clement Freud, who was a grandson of Sigmund Freud, and a celebrity chef and humorist.

    Incidentally, I have been following the impeachment hearings on the radio and am impressed at how passionately so many congressmen and women are defending the Constitution, but what exactly does the Constitution say about the right of political parties to organize elections?

    Freud was a brilliant polymath and a fascinating character. From Wikepedia, but edited for length and US vocabulary. He became a naturalized British citizen in 1939 at the age of 15 on the second day of World War II.

    During World War II Freud joined the Royal Ulster Rifles and served in the ranks. He acted as an aide to Field Marshal Montgomery. He worked at the Nuremberg Trials and in 1947 was commissioned as an officer.

    While running a post-war nightclub, he met a newspaper editor who gave him a job as a sports journalist. From there he became an award-winning food and drink writer, writing columns for many publications. On his marriage to an English woman, he converted to Church of England.

    Freud stood in the 1973 Isle of Ely by-election, becoming the Liberal Member of Parliament for that constituency.

    His autobiography, Freud Ego, recalls his election win, and shortly after, when asked by his wife June, “Why aren’t you looking happier?”, he wrote “It suddenly occurred to me that after nine years of fame I now had something solid about which to be famous… and cheered up no end.”

    Freud was a betting man and in his column in the Racing Post of 23 August 2006, he wrote about his election to Parliament in a by-election: “Politically, I was an anti-Conservative unable to join a Labour party hell-bent on nationalising everything that moved, so when a by-election occurred in East Anglia, where I lived and live, I stood as a Liberal and was fortunate in getting in. Ladbrokes quoted me at 33–1 in this three-horse contest, so Ladbrokes paid for me to have rather more secretarial and research staff than other MPs, which helped to keep me in for five parliaments.”

    Freud’s enthusiasm for horse racing went as far as challenging Sir Hugh Fraser, then chairman of Harrods, to a horse race at Haydock in 1972. Freud trained for three months and lost some five stone (70 lbs) for the event. Although Fraser, a country gentleman, was seen as a much better prospect, the two made a bet for £1,000-a-side. Freud used the long odds to his advantage, however, and shrewdly placed a large side bet on himself. Freud won the race and made a great deal of money.

    Freud was known for his wit and was a regular on BBC radio panel shows.

    He visited China with a delegation of MPs, including Winston Churchill, the grandson of the wartime prime minister. When Churchill was given the best room in the hotel, on account of his lineage, Freud declared it was the first time in his life that he had been “out-grandfathered”.

    So that is what it takes to win a seat as a Liberal MP.

    Posthumously Freud, who died in 2009, was denounced as a sexual predator who had failed to control his id and officially declared to be a non person.

    …. Next installment in the post World War II immigrant British-Jewish Member of Parliament series: Robert Maxwell MP.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Best known in the UK for his pet Bloodhound dog 'Henry' - which was his spitting image - who accompanied him in the iconic 'Minced Morsels' dog food TV commercials of the early 1970s.
  122. @(((They))) Live
    Coal mining towns in Wales electing Tory MPs, amazing

    Does anyone know what’s going on in the northeast part of Scotland that went Tory? Is that unusual?

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    NE Scotland, Aberdeen in particular, includes the oil wealth of the North Sea. Also historically NE Scotland and the Borders are more conservative and unionist, hence their electing Conservative and Unionist MPs.
  123. @Anon
    One oddity I notice from the British election. Half the votes Labour lost went straight to the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems actually gained about 1.5 million votes in this election over their last election, but bizarrely, they haven't gained any seats from it. It all happened in voting districts that were already were majority Tory. (Presumably these were places that had gentrified the old working class--and natural Labour supporters--right out and they were replaced by left-leaning upper middle class types).

    The Scottish Nationalists gained at least 250K votes, presumably from Labour, but the lowlands and northeast Scotland voted Tory, not SNP. I suspect that means the support for Scottish succession is weaker than it looks. The wealthier areas don't look like they want to leave. The Greens gained about 300K votes, too, presumably all from Labour. The rest of the Labour loses went right to the Tories, and if you flip a Labour voter to Tory, I suspect he's likely to stay.

    Another oddity I noticed is that the UK has had only 1 Labour prime minister since 1979, namely Tony Blair. Except for him, the last forty years has seen the PM slot become a Tory fiefdom.

    Jeremy Corbyn lost 20% of his votes if you compare his results to the last election. Considering that these same people voted for him in 2017, (only 2 years ago) they must have decided that he'd gone completely off the rails, or they'd become very disillusioned with Labour in the last two years. That's quite a bolt.

    Poor old Gordan Brown 🙁

    As for the Lib Dems yes thats the problem with the voting system

  124. @Steve Sailer
    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world's most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

    The UK has 650 geographical constituencies, corresponding to seats in the House of Commons, with an MP elected in each one by a first-past-the-post system. This arrangement tends to create a two-party system. The left-of-centre party switched from Liberal to Labour in the early 20th century. It is extremely difficult for a third party to break in. In the last 50 years, only the SNP has managed to do so, but obviously only in Scotland.

    The two main parties are less fragile than they appear from national totals of votes cast. Each one has “heartlands” where they nearly always win. For the Conservatives, these are relatively affluent rural or commuter-belt areas where people don’t want to pay more tax. For Labour, they are industrial or post-industrial areas where the party offers the most handouts.

    In 1983 Labour was almost beaten into third place in total votes cast: 27.6% against 25.4% for the Liberal/SDP Alliance. The two parties won 209 and 23 seats respectively (the Conservatives won the election with 397 seats). The Labour Party should have died that year, but it was kept on life support by its heartlands. It took it 14 years to purge the hard left from the party, until it finally made itself electable again in 1997.

    The internal party dynamics of (real or perceived) extremism versus electable moderates means that often only one of the two main parties is electable at a given election. Labour party members elect the party leader. This arrangement was introduced by Ed Miliband, and Jeremy Corbyn was the first leader to be elected this way. Party members tend to be political activists, and may replace Corbyn with another Trotskyist, who will automatically lose the next election.

  125. anon[534] • Disclaimer says:

    Boris Johnson record as PM. Removes remainer MP’s, gets Brexit deal with the EU, wins general election with a big majority. Not bad for three months work. Morale rising.

    A comment on the election I found elsewhere. Basically, Boris Johnson did the opposite of what Donald Trump did. The latter guy immediately sold out, according to Steve Bannon, tried to appoint Mitt Romney as Secretary of State, staffed his administration with GOP NeverTrump hacks who turned on him and sabotaged his agenda (they even bragged about it to the Times), cut taxes on the rich, embraced the PC culture Britain just rejected, sucked up to groups that will never vote republican instead of his white working class base, announced he wanted record levels of legal immigration, didn’t get much of his wall, etc. What a failure. Yeah, the system was against him but he gave them much of the ammunition from the start. Pretty much any of the commenters here on this site could have done better.

  126. @anon
    The is the moment when Britain either saved itself or squandered the chance forever. The 1980 election in the United States was that moment for the Americans, and they squandered it. Now, the US is headed for eventual collapse. Someone like Hugo Chavez will be president in your lifetime, and they will then enact devastating social justice economic polices just as Venezuela did. You saw what happened there. Just take a look at all these ridiculous Green New Deal proposals that are really just financial transfer scheme reallocating money from one racial group to others; they've even admitted it in interviews. And that's only the beginning. There will be more (free everything for illegals, abolishing immigration control ... all things promoted by the democrat party this election cycle), and they will win the 2020 election according to all the polls! What happened today in the UK is what would be happening in the US now minus mass immigration. Instead, the US will soon get someone like Buttigieg. One day soon, you'll get a Castro or a Booker or a Gillibrand or, God forbid, an AOC ... or worse.

    All immigration must be stopped in the UK and demographic changed must be ended forever by force of law. Promoting or excusing the negative effects of immigration should be made a hate crime punishable by massive fines and imprisonment. Laws should be enacted restricting the ability of NGOs and billionaires to influence politics. The UK deepstate should also be set loose to destroy the finances of SJW rags like the Guardian and other outfits that promote immigration. The UK should also consider abrogating alliances with the US, the place where most of this toxic progressive hatred is coming from, and maybe also banning American media for good measure.

    Otherwise, in thirty years it will be impossible for the conservatives to win any national election just like the US republicans and racial / ethnic affiliation will be the primary determinant of voting. That's not a country any Briton should aspire to live in. Demographically, the UK is where the US was back when Reagan was crushing it, maybe even better. Don't replicate the complacency of the republicans and don't let the corrupt donors take over your party. The US is now doomed, but you don't have to go that route yourselves. Boris Johnson has the opportunity to go down as the greatest Prime Minister in history, even greater than Winston Churchill. Winston merely won a war. Boris could win the future. Don't waste it.

    I agree with much of what you write, but do you trust B Johnson to perform ?

  127. @Desiderius
    Everything is falling into place:

    Study Finds Key Brain Region Smaller in Birth Control Pill Users

    https://press.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/14_pr_target.cfm?id=2136

    Everything is falling into place:

    What do you mean?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The impact of that discovery will be akin to that of the effects of lead-based paint on violence. The sixty-year reign of terror is nearing an end.

    Oh 19th Amendment, where is thy sting!
  128. @anonymous1963
    It was that Scottish minority (by supporting Labour) that was so responsible for flooding England with non-whites sport.

    It was that Scottish minority (by supporting Labour) that was so responsible for flooding England with non-whites sport.

    Their pædo’s misbehavior also cost Englismen their centuries-old right to own pistols.

    But that’s not the point. It’s that Scots warned everyone else about joining Europe and now they want to stay in. Why so fickle? Was grandpa wrong?

    The English have finally decided that the Scots were right. So where are the Scots today? Hiding behind cairns?

  129. @216
    The problem is that in certain parts of the UK, the Conservatives are so despised to the extent they haven't won in 100 years or more. Unlike the US there is no opportunity to ticket split, just the chance on a semi regular basis to vote for a single MP.

    So by having Farage's party, you can vote for him without the stigma of voting Conservative.

    So you can't get "Reagan Democrats" in the UK system. At best in the devolved regional parliaments you could vote a split ticket, but England doesn't have a devolved parliament.

    As good as the results are today, the UK remains a secular wasteland with no signs of revival. There's something wrong about Anglicans being out-preached by Jews in their own country.

    There’s something wrong about Anglicans being out-preached by Jews in their own country.

    What is this referring to?

  130. @Reg Cæsar

    They cannot even manage to move elections to Saturday, which would be sensible given contemporary work schedules.
     
    You're one of the lucky ones who get Saturday off?

    There are 250 million voting-age people in this country. About 20% (50 million or so) habitually work week-ends and / or holidays, putting in a mean of 5.27 hours on days they work. (See “Table 4. Employed persons working and time spent working on days worked by full- and part-time status and sex, jobholding status, educational attainment, and day of week, 2018 annual averages”, last modifed 19 June 2019, Bureau of Labor Statistics).

    • Replies: @res
    Thanks for including the reference. Here is a link.
    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t04.htm

    I was surprised to see that 30% of those over age 15 and employed "worked on an average Saturday, Sunday, and holiday." The different percentage is because of the different base populations. Your 20% is more relevant for the voting issue, but 30% better captures the proportion of workers.
  131. @Jonathan Mason

    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world’s most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

     

    Well, how many seats did the Whigs win in the US in 2016? In the post world war I era in Britain, the Labour Party, which had its origins in the trades union movement, overtook the Liberal Party as the main opposition to the Tories.

    So the Tories had the shires (rural, agricultural England and market towns) and Labour had the industrial cities, except for some wealthy enclaves in cities.

    This did not leave any natural territory for the Liberals. When they have won seats it has often been over local issues, or with candidates who were very popular locally, such as Clement Freud, who was a grandson of Sigmund Freud, and a celebrity chef and humorist.

    Incidentally, I have been following the impeachment hearings on the radio and am impressed at how passionately so many congressmen and women are defending the Constitution, but what exactly does the Constitution say about the right of political parties to organize elections?

    Well, how many seats did the Whigs win in the US in 2016?

    ‘Whig’ as used in this country between 1832 and 1856 wasn’t equivalent to Revolutionary-era usage or British usage. The Whig Party was a grab bag of factions opposed to the prevailing currents in the Democratic Party. They adopted the name in 1836 to present themselves as rebels contra ‘King Andrew’ Jackson. The party fell apart when a different array of conflicts came to the fore.

  132. @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that Lib Dems almost _always_ get the fuzzy end of the lollipop when it comes to converting votes into seats in Parliament.

    I don't know why, though.

    Parliamentary elections are essentially the same thing as elections to the House of Representatives in the US, with the added twist that the House Majority Leader gets to be President. Some 3rd party could get 25% of the vote in every Congressional District in the US and yet end up with not a single seat in Congress.

  133. @Jonathan Mason

    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world’s most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

     

    Well, how many seats did the Whigs win in the US in 2016? In the post world war I era in Britain, the Labour Party, which had its origins in the trades union movement, overtook the Liberal Party as the main opposition to the Tories.

    So the Tories had the shires (rural, agricultural England and market towns) and Labour had the industrial cities, except for some wealthy enclaves in cities.

    This did not leave any natural territory for the Liberals. When they have won seats it has often been over local issues, or with candidates who were very popular locally, such as Clement Freud, who was a grandson of Sigmund Freud, and a celebrity chef and humorist.

    Incidentally, I have been following the impeachment hearings on the radio and am impressed at how passionately so many congressmen and women are defending the Constitution, but what exactly does the Constitution say about the right of political parties to organize elections?

    but what exactly does the Constitution say about the right of political parties to organize elections

    1. What’s your point?

    2. The Constitution says nothing about political parties period. The Founders were kind of hoping against hope that political parties wouldn’t even exist and didn’t make any express provision for them. Federalist Paper #10 derides parties as “factions” and the Constitution was supposed to check rather than aid the growth of the party system.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    1. What’s your point?
     
    It is common for Supreme Court judges to claim that they want to interpret the Constitution as it was originally understood at the time of the framing and yet 2 political parties are given almost total control over how elections are organized and make it extremely difficult for any third party to mount an electoral challenge or even to get on the ballot.

    Even worse, Supervisors of Elections, often have party affiliations.

    It seems like a contradiction since these parties have no official standing under the Constitution.

  134. @Art Deco
    There are 250 million voting-age people in this country. About 20% (50 million or so) habitually work week-ends and / or holidays, putting in a mean of 5.27 hours on days they work. (See "Table 4. Employed persons working and time spent working on days worked by full- and part-time status and sex, jobholding status, educational attainment, and day of week, 2018 annual averages", last modifed 19 June 2019, Bureau of Labor Statistics).

    Thanks for including the reference. Here is a link.
    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t04.htm

    I was surprised to see that 30% of those over age 15 and employed “worked on an average Saturday, Sunday, and holiday.” The different percentage is because of the different base populations. Your 20% is more relevant for the voting issue, but 30% better captures the proportion of workers.

  135. @Intelligent Dasein
    I've voted in every single election since attaining to the legal age of 18. I used to be very insistent upon it. But something broke; I no longer have any desire to even follow electoral politics, let alone participate in them. Trump may have been, probably will be, the last president I will ever vote for.

    It's not that I think the that elections are rigged or that it doesn't matter which candidate is elected to office (they aren't and it does, marginal instances of voter fraud and the existence of the permanent bureaucracy notwithstanding); it's just that the whole charade is now too threadbare and barren of any glory to be worthy of a good man's time.

    Western democracy is senile and superannuated and beyond recovery. It's time to just let the whole thing die.

    I haven’t voted in years, but my decision has been an easy one.

    In my state every U.S. Senator, Congressmen and Governor consider me a deplorable. They have nothing to offer me but insults and lies.

    I can’t vote them out of office.

    So, I just keep a low profile and enjoy life.

    If I moved to a state where my vote mattered I might have to consider voting.

  136. @Anon
    One oddity I notice from the British election. Half the votes Labour lost went straight to the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems actually gained about 1.5 million votes in this election over their last election, but bizarrely, they haven't gained any seats from it. It all happened in voting districts that were already were majority Tory. (Presumably these were places that had gentrified the old working class--and natural Labour supporters--right out and they were replaced by left-leaning upper middle class types).

    The Scottish Nationalists gained at least 250K votes, presumably from Labour, but the lowlands and northeast Scotland voted Tory, not SNP. I suspect that means the support for Scottish succession is weaker than it looks. The wealthier areas don't look like they want to leave. The Greens gained about 300K votes, too, presumably all from Labour. The rest of the Labour loses went right to the Tories, and if you flip a Labour voter to Tory, I suspect he's likely to stay.

    Another oddity I noticed is that the UK has had only 1 Labour prime minister since 1979, namely Tony Blair. Except for him, the last forty years has seen the PM slot become a Tory fiefdom.

    Jeremy Corbyn lost 20% of his votes if you compare his results to the last election. Considering that these same people voted for him in 2017, (only 2 years ago) they must have decided that he'd gone completely off the rails, or they'd become very disillusioned with Labour in the last two years. That's quite a bolt.

    Another oddity I noticed is that the UK has had only 1 Labour prime minister since 1979, namely Tony Blair. Except for him, the last forty years has seen the PM slot become a Tory fiefdom.

    Gordon Brown (2007-2010)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom

    Though perhaps you meant something like “won a contested election”?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown

    • Agree: Desiderius
  137. @Jack D

    but what exactly does the Constitution say about the right of political parties to organize elections
     
    1. What's your point?

    2. The Constitution says nothing about political parties period. The Founders were kind of hoping against hope that political parties wouldn't even exist and didn't make any express provision for them. Federalist Paper #10 derides parties as "factions" and the Constitution was supposed to check rather than aid the growth of the party system.

    1. What’s your point?

    It is common for Supreme Court judges to claim that they want to interpret the Constitution as it was originally understood at the time of the framing and yet 2 political parties are given almost total control over how elections are organized and make it extremely difficult for any third party to mount an electoral challenge or even to get on the ballot.

    Even worse, Supervisors of Elections, often have party affiliations.

    It seems like a contradiction since these parties have no official standing under the Constitution.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    While the Founders were brilliant men, there were a lot of future developments that they could not have foreseen (or in the case of the party system, they did forsee them and dislike them and yet were unable to mount a sufficient defense against them in the Constitution, which after all is just a piece of paper). I would say for something that is just a piece of paper it has already been one of the most effective pieces of paper in all of human history after the Bible, but its magical power is not unlimited.

    or even to get on the ballot.
     
    The alternative is the British system where any clown who pays the registration fee is entitled to appear on the ballot. Last night, before a global audience, standing next to the future Prime Minister of our closest ally, was Mr. Bin [meaning trash can] head and a man in an Elmo costume. This was not a dignified look and if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do) then I am all for them.
    , @keypusher
    Since the Constitution doesn't say anything about how elections are to be conducted, having political parties run them doesn't violate it.
  138. @David 'The Diversity Mastermind' Lammey
    That's exactly what he'll do. He's a bumbling, buffoonish upper class ceding you next Tuesday twit drunk on soggy biscuits.

    No. He plays at being an upper-class twit, but is in fact an upper-class political genius, much helped by another (much less upper-class) election-winning genius called Dominic Cumming, who, merely middle-class as he may be, is married to the daughter of a baronet, herself a journalist of talent and a convert to the Church of Rome.

    I mean by none of this that I find him either likeable or admirable. But: he is better by far than the alternative.

    • Agree: Simon in London
    • Replies: @Jack Henson
    I'm amazed at how many people are taken in by "BoJo the Buffoon" when the man spanked Mary Beard in a debate over the Classics.

    Admittedly Beard isn't a high bar but the amount of politicians who can argue intelligently regarding Antiquities is likely in the single percentile digits.
    , @Bardon Kaldian

    Dominic Cumming
     
    Are you sure about this spelling? Reminds me of....you know....
  139. @Hail
    The single-seat constituency model creates these distortions and incentives vote wasting and nonvoting (not so different than the US), and helps suppress the so-needed right-wing nationalist parties.

    Divide the UK into 15 electoral regions, each with 40 seats (600 seats); threshhold to take one seat per region thus at 2.5%.

    It's hard to say what effect this exactly have had, exactly, in this election; for one thing the Brexit Party would not have folded up shop, and would have taken a lot of seats.

    Sounds okay.
    With that model, TBP might have won 4 Seats, the Green Party 14 Seats, and the Lib Dems about 40 Seats.

  140. @Jonathan Mason
    Interesting result, but it might have been very different had the Brexit Party not stood down its candidates in seats held by the Conservatives.

    Bear in mind that the Conservatives originally called for the Brexit referendum as a means of gutting the United Kingdom Independence Party, which threatened split the Conservative Party vote. The end result today has been that the Conservative Party has won, but only after being consumed by the parasite. The Labour Party has also been disemboweled by Brexit.

    What the future will bring is anyone's guess. I don' think it bodes very well for Britain, which I left almost 40 years ago. In less than 6 months I will be returning to visit there for the first time in almost 20 years and probably will not like a lot of what I see and will remember why I left in the first place.

    We look forward to hearing your reaction sometime in … what, July?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    May/June.
  141. @Intelligent Dasein
    I've voted in every single election since attaining to the legal age of 18. I used to be very insistent upon it. But something broke; I no longer have any desire to even follow electoral politics, let alone participate in them. Trump may have been, probably will be, the last president I will ever vote for.

    It's not that I think the that elections are rigged or that it doesn't matter which candidate is elected to office (they aren't and it does, marginal instances of voter fraud and the existence of the permanent bureaucracy notwithstanding); it's just that the whole charade is now too threadbare and barren of any glory to be worthy of a good man's time.

    Western democracy is senile and superannuated and beyond recovery. It's time to just let the whole thing die.

    I wish we could just “let it die”.

    I think we’re going to have to kill it.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Molon Labe
  142. @Old Palo Altan
    We look forward to hearing your reaction sometime in ... what, July?

    May/June.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    I've penciled that into my diary.
  143. Bor Odinson has slain the Dreadful Serpent!

  144. @Jonathan Mason
    Freud was a brilliant polymath and a fascinating character. From Wikepedia, but edited for length and US vocabulary. He became a naturalized British citizen in 1939 at the age of 15 on the second day of World War II.

    During World War II Freud joined the Royal Ulster Rifles and served in the ranks. He acted as an aide to Field Marshal Montgomery. He worked at the Nuremberg Trials and in 1947 was commissioned as an officer.

    While running a post-war nightclub, he met a newspaper editor who gave him a job as a sports journalist. From there he became an award-winning food and drink writer, writing columns for many publications. On his marriage to an English woman, he converted to Church of England.

    Freud stood in the 1973 Isle of Ely by-election, becoming the Liberal Member of Parliament for that constituency.


    His autobiography, Freud Ego, recalls his election win, and shortly after, when asked by his wife June, "Why aren't you looking happier?", he wrote "It suddenly occurred to me that after nine years of fame I now had something solid about which to be famous... and cheered up no end."

    Freud was a betting man and in his column in the Racing Post of 23 August 2006, he wrote about his election to Parliament in a by-election: "Politically, I was an anti-Conservative unable to join a Labour party hell-bent on nationalising everything that moved, so when a by-election occurred in East Anglia, where I lived and live, I stood as a Liberal and was fortunate in getting in. Ladbrokes quoted me at 33–1 in this three-horse contest, so Ladbrokes paid for me to have rather more secretarial and research staff than other MPs, which helped to keep me in for five parliaments."

    Freud's enthusiasm for horse racing went as far as challenging Sir Hugh Fraser, then chairman of Harrods, to a horse race at Haydock in 1972. Freud trained for three months and lost some five stone (70 lbs) for the event. Although Fraser, a country gentleman, was seen as a much better prospect, the two made a bet for £1,000-a-side. Freud used the long odds to his advantage, however, and shrewdly placed a large side bet on himself. Freud won the race and made a great deal of money.

    Freud was known for his wit and was a regular on BBC radio panel shows.

    He visited China with a delegation of MPs, including Winston Churchill, the grandson of the wartime prime minister. When Churchill was given the best room in the hotel, on account of his lineage, Freud declared it was the first time in his life that he had been "out-grandfathered".

    So that is what it takes to win a seat as a Liberal MP.

    Posthumously Freud, who died in 2009, was denounced as a sexual predator who had failed to control his id and officially declared to be a non person.

    .... Next installment in the post World War II immigrant British-Jewish Member of Parliament series: Robert Maxwell MP.

    Best known in the UK for his pet Bloodhound dog ‘Henry’ – which was his spitting image – who accompanied him in the iconic ‘Minced Morsels’ dog food TV commercials of the early 1970s.

  145. @Jonathan Mason

    1. What’s your point?
     
    It is common for Supreme Court judges to claim that they want to interpret the Constitution as it was originally understood at the time of the framing and yet 2 political parties are given almost total control over how elections are organized and make it extremely difficult for any third party to mount an electoral challenge or even to get on the ballot.

    Even worse, Supervisors of Elections, often have party affiliations.

    It seems like a contradiction since these parties have no official standing under the Constitution.

    While the Founders were brilliant men, there were a lot of future developments that they could not have foreseen (or in the case of the party system, they did forsee them and dislike them and yet were unable to mount a sufficient defense against them in the Constitution, which after all is just a piece of paper). I would say for something that is just a piece of paper it has already been one of the most effective pieces of paper in all of human history after the Bible, but its magical power is not unlimited.

    or even to get on the ballot.

    The alternative is the British system where any clown who pays the registration fee is entitled to appear on the ballot. Last night, before a global audience, standing next to the future Prime Minister of our closest ally, was Mr. Bin [meaning trash can] head and a man in an Elmo costume. This was not a dignified look and if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do) then I am all for them.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    The alternative is the British system where any clown who pays the registration fee is entitled to appear on the ballot. Last night, before a global audience, standing next to the future Prime Minister of our closest ally, was Mr. Bin [meaning trash can] head and a man in an Elmo costume. This was not a dignified look and if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do) then I am all for them.
     
    IMO, the issue isn't primarily one of appearances. It's of practicality. A huge number of government positions in the US are chosen through elections. Judges, sheriffs, land use officials, et al.

    For any marginal candidate to be able to appear on the ballot means voters have to scroll through endless columns of names, in addition to the huge number of rows they have to deal with. No thanks. Maybe ballot eligibility should be loosened. But not to the extent it is in the UK. The real problem is once loosened, entropy sets in, and we start slouching towards UK standards.
    , @baked georgia
    yeah. but there was also a guy with a "Jeffrey epstein didnt killed himself" t-shirt. that was good
    , @Desiderius

    if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do)
     
    As if Schiff were any better. At least Elmo and Binhead can be readily seen for what they are.
    , @Anonymous
    Surely, a great deal of the 'serious' political candidates who get elected either in the USA or in the UK are more ludicrous than Elmo - and probably have less brains than a child's stuffed rabbit.
    George W. Bush and Tony Blair spring to mind.
  146. @Hail
    The single-seat constituency model creates these distortions and incentives vote wasting and nonvoting (not so different than the US), and helps suppress the so-needed right-wing nationalist parties.

    Divide the UK into 15 electoral regions, each with 40 seats (600 seats); threshhold to take one seat per region thus at 2.5%.

    It's hard to say what effect this exactly have had, exactly, in this election; for one thing the Brexit Party would not have folded up shop, and would have taken a lot of seats.

    The problem with proportional representation system is that it then becomes difficult for any one party to have a majority. So in order to rule, they need to form coalitions. These coalitions don’t always make a lot of sense – you need to get to 50+% so you take whomever you can get. And in order to get them into your coalition you often have to offer them corrupt gibmedats – control over key ministries that they can use as patronage farms, concessions over their pet issues, etc. It’s generally not a good idea. Project this system over to the US and you have blacks as a fringe coalition partner holding even more power than they do over the Democrats and evangelicals having more power over the Republicans.

    And sometimes you can never get to 50+% and have to keep holding election after election until you do.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  147. The LibDem leadership did a better job helping elect Conservatives in Remain constituencies than electing LibDems.

    Now that Brexit is (hopefully) off the table, they’ll have a hard time returning to their pre-2010 level of support.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The LibDems seems like the world's most self-defeating political party.
  148. @Old Palo Altan
    No. He plays at being an upper-class twit, but is in fact an upper-class political genius, much helped by another (much less upper-class) election-winning genius called Dominic Cumming, who, merely middle-class as he may be, is married to the daughter of a baronet, herself a journalist of talent and a convert to the Church of Rome.

    I mean by none of this that I find him either likeable or admirable. But: he is better by far than the alternative.

    I’m amazed at how many people are taken in by “BoJo the Buffoon” when the man spanked Mary Beard in a debate over the Classics.

    Admittedly Beard isn’t a high bar but the amount of politicians who can argue intelligently regarding Antiquities is likely in the single percentile digits.

    • Agree: Simon in London
  149. @Old Palo Altan
    No. He plays at being an upper-class twit, but is in fact an upper-class political genius, much helped by another (much less upper-class) election-winning genius called Dominic Cumming, who, merely middle-class as he may be, is married to the daughter of a baronet, herself a journalist of talent and a convert to the Church of Rome.

    I mean by none of this that I find him either likeable or admirable. But: he is better by far than the alternative.

    Dominic Cumming

    Are you sure about this spelling? Reminds me of….you know….

  150. @Jack D
    While the Founders were brilliant men, there were a lot of future developments that they could not have foreseen (or in the case of the party system, they did forsee them and dislike them and yet were unable to mount a sufficient defense against them in the Constitution, which after all is just a piece of paper). I would say for something that is just a piece of paper it has already been one of the most effective pieces of paper in all of human history after the Bible, but its magical power is not unlimited.

    or even to get on the ballot.
     
    The alternative is the British system where any clown who pays the registration fee is entitled to appear on the ballot. Last night, before a global audience, standing next to the future Prime Minister of our closest ally, was Mr. Bin [meaning trash can] head and a man in an Elmo costume. This was not a dignified look and if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do) then I am all for them.

    The alternative is the British system where any clown who pays the registration fee is entitled to appear on the ballot. Last night, before a global audience, standing next to the future Prime Minister of our closest ally, was Mr. Bin [meaning trash can] head and a man in an Elmo costume. This was not a dignified look and if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do) then I am all for them.

    IMO, the issue isn’t primarily one of appearances. It’s of practicality. A huge number of government positions in the US are chosen through elections. Judges, sheriffs, land use officials, et al.

    For any marginal candidate to be able to appear on the ballot means voters have to scroll through endless columns of names, in addition to the huge number of rows they have to deal with. No thanks. Maybe ballot eligibility should be loosened. But not to the extent it is in the UK. The real problem is once loosened, entropy sets in, and we start slouching towards UK standards.

  151. elites in america: “first-past-the-post” is bad because it’s a system that only helps the republicans

    elites in the rest of the western world: first-past-the-post is good because it’s a system that restrict far-right parties to enter the parliament (uk, france, canada, etc)

  152. @Jack D
    While the Founders were brilliant men, there were a lot of future developments that they could not have foreseen (or in the case of the party system, they did forsee them and dislike them and yet were unable to mount a sufficient defense against them in the Constitution, which after all is just a piece of paper). I would say for something that is just a piece of paper it has already been one of the most effective pieces of paper in all of human history after the Bible, but its magical power is not unlimited.

    or even to get on the ballot.
     
    The alternative is the British system where any clown who pays the registration fee is entitled to appear on the ballot. Last night, before a global audience, standing next to the future Prime Minister of our closest ally, was Mr. Bin [meaning trash can] head and a man in an Elmo costume. This was not a dignified look and if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do) then I am all for them.

    yeah. but there was also a guy with a “Jeffrey epstein didnt killed himself” t-shirt. that was good

  153. @Old Palo Altan
    I wish we could just "let it die".

    I think we're going to have to kill it.

    Molon Labe

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Fair enough. I was using that "we" in the widest possible sense.

    Surely you too would wish to be in on the kill?
  154. @Jack D
    While the Founders were brilliant men, there were a lot of future developments that they could not have foreseen (or in the case of the party system, they did forsee them and dislike them and yet were unable to mount a sufficient defense against them in the Constitution, which after all is just a piece of paper). I would say for something that is just a piece of paper it has already been one of the most effective pieces of paper in all of human history after the Bible, but its magical power is not unlimited.

    or even to get on the ballot.
     
    The alternative is the British system where any clown who pays the registration fee is entitled to appear on the ballot. Last night, before a global audience, standing next to the future Prime Minister of our closest ally, was Mr. Bin [meaning trash can] head and a man in an Elmo costume. This was not a dignified look and if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do) then I am all for them.

    if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do)

    As if Schiff were any better. At least Elmo and Binhead can be readily seen for what they are.

  155. @Anonymous

    Everything is falling into place:
     
    What do you mean?

    The impact of that discovery will be akin to that of the effects of lead-based paint on violence. The sixty-year reign of terror is nearing an end.

    Oh 19th Amendment, where is thy sting!

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The impact of that discovery will be akin to that of the effects of lead-based paint on violence. The sixty-year reign of terror is nearing an end.

    Oh 19th Amendment, where is thy sting!
     
    Do you’re saying that you wouldn’t be opposed to women voting if they weren’t on the pill?
  156. When Boris Johnson gets his Brexit, will he just keep out Polish immigrants and ask in Indian immigrants to make up the difference?

    Last week of campaigning: Boris Johnson urged to apologise for ‘scapegoating migrants’ after saying EU citizens should not ‘treat UK as their own’

    GOVE hits out at Labour plan to let EU citizens vote in a second referendum Minister says enfranchising 2 million EU nationals would be ‘assault on democracy’“It’s a bit like a rugby league final, 13 players on either side. If one team suddenly said we’re going to play rugby union instead and bring two extra players on to the field, that simply wouldn’t be fair.”

    Shocking! How did it play to those being competed against Poles by the jobs market ?

    IN a sign of the damage Mr Johnson’s Tories have done to Labour, there are 24 constituencies that have voted Tory for the first time in decades.

    The new Conservative majorities in three of these constituencies is more than 20 percentage points: Dudley North (31.3 per cent), Bassetlaw (27.6 per cent) and Great Grimsby (22.2 per cent). All of these seats saw double-digit swings from Labour to the Tories

    It is grim up north in Grimsby ect, where the concentrations of indigenous Britons are greatist. Moral: bash the Pole and bait the Pole lovers by reminding them that THIS IS NOT YOUR COUNTRY YOU COUNT to win.

    Indians are not in direct competition with indigenous workers to the same extent, especially as many Indians live south of Watford in economically overheating Tory heartland

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest#by-ethnicity
    Anyway, anti racism has totally intimidated the indigenous British out of organising against nonEuropean immigration on any grounds.

    —=—
    Without its Scottish MP’s there would never ever have been a Labour government in Britain. The Conservatives woke up to this and the possibility that the rise of the SNP (which is to a great extent a protest and (and antiFenian) vote offered them the possibility to crush Scottish Labour. The Scottish Conservatives started spending relatively vast sums on advertising realising that even it the SNP won seats as a result of Conservative efforts in a three way race that was a victory in the greater scheme of of things. The strategy has borne fruit.

    The Scottish National party lost the referendum on Scottish ‘ Independence’ in Europe (the EU) even though that was in the context of Scotland and the Rest of Britain plus Northern Ireland being in the EU along with an ‘ Independent ‘Scotland, so no real borders, trade, or currency exchange rate barriers. Now with England, Northern Ireland and Wales outside the EU all these barriers and more would assume enormous proportions. Scotland leaving the UK is a non-starter, if Scotland also stayed in the EU. Forget about Scottish Independence.

    For SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon Tory is a four letter word meaning ENGLISH. Or woman with an English accent like Joe Swinson even though the Lib Dem leader was pro EU. The head of Scottish Labour had a very noticeable regional English accent, because he was English, what a good choice to fight off the SNP among people who are delighted when England gets knocked out the World Cup. Anyhoo, here is Sturgeon giving her version of the New Zealand rugby team dance

    Horrifying but should not surprise; the former leader of the SNP Alex Salmond is about to stand trial for attempted rape (why do the SNP’s top people have names like fish?).

  157. @Jonathan Mason
    May/June.

    I’ve penciled that into my diary.

  158. @Desiderius
    Molon Labe

    Fair enough. I was using that “we” in the widest possible sense.

    Surely you too would wish to be in on the kill?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    No sir.

    If you wish to kill Her it will be over my dead body and that of millions of my countrymen. I'd rather it be more Republican than Democratic but I am very much still a man of the West. You go run along and play dead with Keynes. My boys and I have living to do.
    , @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/petespiliakos/status/1205643638182686720?s=20
  159. @Jonathan Mason

    1. What’s your point?
     
    It is common for Supreme Court judges to claim that they want to interpret the Constitution as it was originally understood at the time of the framing and yet 2 political parties are given almost total control over how elections are organized and make it extremely difficult for any third party to mount an electoral challenge or even to get on the ballot.

    Even worse, Supervisors of Elections, often have party affiliations.

    It seems like a contradiction since these parties have no official standing under the Constitution.

    Since the Constitution doesn’t say anything about how elections are to be conducted, having political parties run them doesn’t violate it.

  160. @Reg Cæsar

    What makes you think non-American election counts are less honest than in the US?
     
    Can you even read? I said nothing about any other country's elections. I merely stated that speed would be of little help in America.

    Do you really think speed would improve Chicago?

    There are streets and other things all over Europe named after John F Kennedy. Do they really think he won that election?

    If they do, they're either hopelessly naïve, or as corrupt as any Daley Democrat.

    There are streets and other things all over Europe named after John F Kennedy. Do they really think he won that election?

    If they do, they’re either hopelessly naïve, or as corrupt as any Daley Democrat.

    Nixon didn’t win it either. The 1960 election was a corrupt, muddled mess, and it’s unlcear who would’ve won it, under a clean system. Steve’s repeatedly covered how the GOP was just as corrupt in downstate Illinois counties, as the Democrats were in Cook County. And he got that info from Ted White’s THE MAKING OF THE PRESIDENT: 1960, as I recall.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Right, but Daley cheated better. He waited until all the fake votes from downstate came in and then he was able to come in with the necessary LARGER number of fake votes from Chicago. Since the downstate vote totals were official at that point, they couldn't come up with any more to counter Chicago. Now you know why votes come in so late in American elections.

    The dead voted all over Illinois that evening (so close to the Day of the Dead) but their turnout was better in Chicago.

  161. anon[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    The Liberal/Whig Party used to be the world's most prestigious political party up thru World War I.

    Is there some sociological reason why there are seldom a plurality of Lib-Dems in any one constituency?

    Churchill killed the Liberal Party, first by ratting on the Tories in 1903, then Liberal warmongering that saw 880,000 Englishmen dead by 1919, then ratting on the Liberals in 1923 and being made Chancellor by the Tories as his reward.

    Churchill then spent the rest of his career turning the Conservatives into a Liberal Party, which is what they are today.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The Liberal Party cleaved in two during the 1st World War. The Lloyd George coalition (which included one of the two Liberal parties) won the 1918 general election. After the 1922 election, both Liberal parties were in opposition. Their combined seat total was only about 20% smaller than the Labour caucus. Same deal with the performance of the reunified Liberal Party in 1923. It was only in 1924 that the Liberal Party's seat totals imploded fairly thoroughly. They cleaved in two again in 1931 over the National Government and didn't contest an election as a unified party until 1950, at which time they were the minor force they were for most of the postwar period.
  162. @Kevin O'Keeffe

    There are streets and other things all over Europe named after John F Kennedy. Do they really think he won that election?

    If they do, they’re either hopelessly naïve, or as corrupt as any Daley Democrat.
     

    Nixon didn't win it either. The 1960 election was a corrupt, muddled mess, and it's unlcear who would've won it, under a clean system. Steve's repeatedly covered how the GOP was just as corrupt in downstate Illinois counties, as the Democrats were in Cook County. And he got that info from Ted White's THE MAKING OF THE PRESIDENT: 1960, as I recall.

    Right, but Daley cheated better. He waited until all the fake votes from downstate came in and then he was able to come in with the necessary LARGER number of fake votes from Chicago. Since the downstate vote totals were official at that point, they couldn’t come up with any more to counter Chicago. Now you know why votes come in so late in American elections.

    The dead voted all over Illinois that evening (so close to the Day of the Dead) but their turnout was better in Chicago.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Again, take away Illinois' electoral votes, and Kennedy still wins the college. You have to demonstrate there were > 46,000 stolen votes in Texas or > 10,000 in Missouri before you reach your goal.
  163. @Jack D
    Right, but Daley cheated better. He waited until all the fake votes from downstate came in and then he was able to come in with the necessary LARGER number of fake votes from Chicago. Since the downstate vote totals were official at that point, they couldn't come up with any more to counter Chicago. Now you know why votes come in so late in American elections.

    The dead voted all over Illinois that evening (so close to the Day of the Dead) but their turnout was better in Chicago.

    Again, take away Illinois’ electoral votes, and Kennedy still wins the college. You have to demonstrate there were > 46,000 stolen votes in Texas or > 10,000 in Missouri before you reach your goal.

  164. @anon
    Churchill killed the Liberal Party, first by ratting on the Tories in 1903, then Liberal warmongering that saw 880,000 Englishmen dead by 1919, then ratting on the Liberals in 1923 and being made Chancellor by the Tories as his reward.

    Churchill then spent the rest of his career turning the Conservatives into a Liberal Party, which is what they are today.

    The Liberal Party cleaved in two during the 1st World War. The Lloyd George coalition (which included one of the two Liberal parties) won the 1918 general election. After the 1922 election, both Liberal parties were in opposition. Their combined seat total was only about 20% smaller than the Labour caucus. Same deal with the performance of the reunified Liberal Party in 1923. It was only in 1924 that the Liberal Party’s seat totals imploded fairly thoroughly. They cleaved in two again in 1931 over the National Government and didn’t contest an election as a unified party until 1950, at which time they were the minor force they were for most of the postwar period.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Disraeli's Tory Democracy killed the Liberal Party. Like Wile E. Coyote it took awhile to realize it was dead.

    But there's always a bigger asshole and eventually the Scylla and Charbydis of Bloomsbury and Bismarck proved too much for even the successors of Disraeli, Churchill among them, to overcome. So the disaster that is Labour was released from the depths.

  165. @Old Palo Altan
    Fair enough. I was using that "we" in the widest possible sense.

    Surely you too would wish to be in on the kill?

    No sir.

    If you wish to kill Her it will be over my dead body and that of millions of my countrymen. I’d rather it be more Republican than Democratic but I am very much still a man of the West. You go run along and play dead with Keynes. My boys and I have living to do.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Democracy is antithetical to the historic Christian and hierarchical West.

    What will give you and your boys lives worth living is ordered liberty, not the rule of the mob.

    Our founding fathers understood this; I am genuinely puzzled that you don't seem to.
  166. @Art Deco
    The Liberal Party cleaved in two during the 1st World War. The Lloyd George coalition (which included one of the two Liberal parties) won the 1918 general election. After the 1922 election, both Liberal parties were in opposition. Their combined seat total was only about 20% smaller than the Labour caucus. Same deal with the performance of the reunified Liberal Party in 1923. It was only in 1924 that the Liberal Party's seat totals imploded fairly thoroughly. They cleaved in two again in 1931 over the National Government and didn't contest an election as a unified party until 1950, at which time they were the minor force they were for most of the postwar period.

    Disraeli’s Tory Democracy killed the Liberal Party. Like Wile E. Coyote it took awhile to realize it was dead.

    But there’s always a bigger asshole and eventually the Scylla and Charbydis of Bloomsbury and Bismarck proved too much for even the successors of Disraeli, Churchill among them, to overcome. So the disaster that is Labour was released from the depths.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Disraeli’s Tory Democracy killed the Liberal Party. Like Wile E. Coyote it took awhile to realize it was dead.

    IIRC, prior to about 1865, British political parties existed as parliamentary factions, not as incorporated membership organizations. Disraeli died in 1881, so you're telling me that he 'killed off' the Liberal Party within 15 years of its formation and no one noticed for a 50 year span of time (which included the run of years (1906-14) when a raft of consequential legislation was put into effect by Liberal MPs.

    There were a number of European countries wherein social democratic parties displaced liberal parties just prior to the 1st world war or just after (Germany and Sweden to name two), so I'm not seeing why anyone would attribute the phenomenon to the machinations of a single politician.

    The other person pushing this thesis fancies Churchill made an effort to turn the Conservative Party into a Liberal Party. The Liberal Party's signatures included a tendency to favor commercial and industrial interests over the landed interest and the Church, skepticism of the value of overseas possessions, and support for Home Rule in Ireland. Churchill was a religiously indifferent man who did favor Irish Home Rule, but he came out of the gentry and was a vigorous advocate of Empire.

  167. Anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    The impact of that discovery will be akin to that of the effects of lead-based paint on violence. The sixty-year reign of terror is nearing an end.

    Oh 19th Amendment, where is thy sting!

    The impact of that discovery will be akin to that of the effects of lead-based paint on violence. The sixty-year reign of terror is nearing an end.

    Oh 19th Amendment, where is thy sting!

    Do you’re saying that you wouldn’t be opposed to women voting if they weren’t on the pill?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Women themselves will take care of that. They were against it in the first place and freed from the nefarious effects of the pill they may well spearhead the repeal.

    In any event its deleterious effects will be greatly ameliorated. Read the study.

  168. @Jack D
    While the Founders were brilliant men, there were a lot of future developments that they could not have foreseen (or in the case of the party system, they did forsee them and dislike them and yet were unable to mount a sufficient defense against them in the Constitution, which after all is just a piece of paper). I would say for something that is just a piece of paper it has already been one of the most effective pieces of paper in all of human history after the Bible, but its magical power is not unlimited.

    or even to get on the ballot.
     
    The alternative is the British system where any clown who pays the registration fee is entitled to appear on the ballot. Last night, before a global audience, standing next to the future Prime Minister of our closest ally, was Mr. Bin [meaning trash can] head and a man in an Elmo costume. This was not a dignified look and if American ballot laws tend to weed out such candidates (and they do) then I am all for them.

    Surely, a great deal of the ‘serious’ political candidates who get elected either in the USA or in the UK are more ludicrous than Elmo – and probably have less brains than a child’s stuffed rabbit.
    George W. Bush and Tony Blair spring to mind.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Neither George W. Bush nor Tony Blair are deficient in intelligence. Neither is Adam Schiff.

    The problem with our political order is three-fold: wretched and barnacle-laden institutional set up (which no one can be bothered to consider altering), the calibre of our professional-managerial class generally, and the sort of professional-managerial type who prospers given the incentive structure and rules. You get a lot of unethical people because they're all over the place in this world and the broader public tolerates them. You screen them so that the people who land on top are those who can 'work a room' and those who can navigate the politics of a legislative caucus. Ted Kennedy was great at the one and Nancy Pelosi is great at the other. (Pelosi I suspect actually does have intellectual deficits).

    Have a gander at the people who've run the Senate Republican caucus for the last six decades. Trent Lott never practiced law and was an employee of the U.S. Congress from the age of 25 to the age of 64, first as legislative staff and then as a member (after which he was hired by a lobbying firm). Mitch McConnell went back and forth for 10 years between time on legislative staffs, time as a law firm associate, and time as a government lawyer before getting elected to public office at age 35. He's been in Congress for 34 years. Robert Dole has a certain amount of grit people don't usually have. However, he had no pre-political career apart from his military service and his only time in law practice was as the elected corporation counsel of a county which had about 12,000 people living in it. Everett Dirksen was an appealing small-city Babbitt, but not someone of much accomplishment. He worked in his brothers' business for about a dozen years, and then was in Congress for the rest of his life. Hugh Scott was a government lawyer for about 15 years (a prosecutor) before being elected to Congress. Howard Baker (1977-85) and Bill Frist (2003-07) are the only people who've led the Senate caucus who had handsome careers before entering politics and the only two who spent most of their working life in the private sector. You'll also notice that among them, none were in an occupation which required mathematical skill or technological proficiency and among them only Frist was trained in natural sciences.

  169. @Not Raul
    The LibDem leadership did a better job helping elect Conservatives in Remain constituencies than electing LibDems.

    Now that Brexit is (hopefully) off the table, they’ll have a hard time returning to their pre-2010 level of support.

    The LibDems seems like the world’s most self-defeating political party.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    There problem 30-odd years ago was that the geographic distribution was quite inefficient; they were the 2d place finisher all over the country, the 1st place finisher in only about two dozen constituencies. They'd have gotten 150 seats under a German-style PR system and likely a big bloc under one or another ordinal-balloting scheme. One such scheme was proposed in a referendum in Britain a few years back, but it was rejected by the voters. They're not self-defeating. It's just that the sources of their appeal don't make for prosperity in a first-past-the-post single-member-district system.

    What makes them really unpalatable is that even in their seminal period, they were a repository of bourgeois twit attitudes. They have been, for example, the party most hostile to efforts to restrict abortion. They had all of one prolife MP, who eventually left the party. He gave an account of his experiences in an article in Crisis about 15 years ago. You could see it in less consequential matters. A reporter covering one of their early conferences was amused when everyone applauded at one point: it was when it was announced that smoking would not be permitted in the auditorium. Another example of the type would be the Liberal MP offering a complaint about the Falklands War in a British documentary, that it distracted people from the idea that 'we are a European country'. You benefit as a society when such people do defeat themselves.
    , @Not Raul
    I agree. Either Jo Swinson is a world class idiot, or she actually wanted the Conservatives to win.

    The LibDems’ representation in Parliament crashed due to their coalition government with the Conservatives between 2010 and 2015, and might never recover.

    It seems that the whole point of the party is to provide an opportunity for the upper-middle-class to do a lot of virtue signaling, and still keep Labour from winning.

    I think that Vince Cable predicted that it would be all downhill after the LibDems did well in the May 2019 European Parliament election, and didn’t want to be holding the bag when things fell apart.
  170. @Desiderius
    Disraeli's Tory Democracy killed the Liberal Party. Like Wile E. Coyote it took awhile to realize it was dead.

    But there's always a bigger asshole and eventually the Scylla and Charbydis of Bloomsbury and Bismarck proved too much for even the successors of Disraeli, Churchill among them, to overcome. So the disaster that is Labour was released from the depths.

    Disraeli’s Tory Democracy killed the Liberal Party. Like Wile E. Coyote it took awhile to realize it was dead.

    IIRC, prior to about 1865, British political parties existed as parliamentary factions, not as incorporated membership organizations. Disraeli died in 1881, so you’re telling me that he ‘killed off’ the Liberal Party within 15 years of its formation and no one noticed for a 50 year span of time (which included the run of years (1906-14) when a raft of consequential legislation was put into effect by Liberal MPs.

    There were a number of European countries wherein social democratic parties displaced liberal parties just prior to the 1st world war or just after (Germany and Sweden to name two), so I’m not seeing why anyone would attribute the phenomenon to the machinations of a single politician.

    The other person pushing this thesis fancies Churchill made an effort to turn the Conservative Party into a Liberal Party. The Liberal Party’s signatures included a tendency to favor commercial and industrial interests over the landed interest and the Church, skepticism of the value of overseas possessions, and support for Home Rule in Ireland. Churchill was a religiously indifferent man who did favor Irish Home Rule, but he came out of the gentry and was a vigorous advocate of Empire.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That is exactly what I’m saying. As with most geniuses, Disraeli was well ahead of his time. Trump presents a similar threat to contemporary liberals, which goes a good way to explain why they’re losing their goddamned minds trying to stop him.
    , @Anonymous
    Free Trade was the big Liberal issue which tied together all the others. Britain abandoned free trade forever in the 1930s.
  171. @Steve Sailer
    The LibDems seems like the world's most self-defeating political party.

    There problem 30-odd years ago was that the geographic distribution was quite inefficient; they were the 2d place finisher all over the country, the 1st place finisher in only about two dozen constituencies. They’d have gotten 150 seats under a German-style PR system and likely a big bloc under one or another ordinal-balloting scheme. One such scheme was proposed in a referendum in Britain a few years back, but it was rejected by the voters. They’re not self-defeating. It’s just that the sources of their appeal don’t make for prosperity in a first-past-the-post single-member-district system.

    What makes them really unpalatable is that even in their seminal period, they were a repository of bourgeois twit attitudes. They have been, for example, the party most hostile to efforts to restrict abortion. They had all of one prolife MP, who eventually left the party. He gave an account of his experiences in an article in Crisis about 15 years ago. You could see it in less consequential matters. A reporter covering one of their early conferences was amused when everyone applauded at one point: it was when it was announced that smoking would not be permitted in the auditorium. Another example of the type would be the Liberal MP offering a complaint about the Falklands War in a British documentary, that it distracted people from the idea that ‘we are a European country’. You benefit as a society when such people do defeat themselves.

  172. @Art Deco
    Disraeli’s Tory Democracy killed the Liberal Party. Like Wile E. Coyote it took awhile to realize it was dead.

    IIRC, prior to about 1865, British political parties existed as parliamentary factions, not as incorporated membership organizations. Disraeli died in 1881, so you're telling me that he 'killed off' the Liberal Party within 15 years of its formation and no one noticed for a 50 year span of time (which included the run of years (1906-14) when a raft of consequential legislation was put into effect by Liberal MPs.

    There were a number of European countries wherein social democratic parties displaced liberal parties just prior to the 1st world war or just after (Germany and Sweden to name two), so I'm not seeing why anyone would attribute the phenomenon to the machinations of a single politician.

    The other person pushing this thesis fancies Churchill made an effort to turn the Conservative Party into a Liberal Party. The Liberal Party's signatures included a tendency to favor commercial and industrial interests over the landed interest and the Church, skepticism of the value of overseas possessions, and support for Home Rule in Ireland. Churchill was a religiously indifferent man who did favor Irish Home Rule, but he came out of the gentry and was a vigorous advocate of Empire.

    That is exactly what I’m saying. As with most geniuses, Disraeli was well ahead of his time. Trump presents a similar threat to contemporary liberals, which goes a good way to explain why they’re losing their goddamned minds trying to stop him.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I thought Labour killed off the Liberal party. That, and the Irish who were willing to support them in coalition ceased to be a part of the UK (and probably wouldn't have kept supporting them anyway).

    Churchill was a religiously indifferent man who did favor Irish Home Rule, but he came out of the gentry and was a vigorous advocate of Empire.
     
    So far as I can tell Churchill's opinions seemed to have favored the expedient.
  173. @Anonymous

    The impact of that discovery will be akin to that of the effects of lead-based paint on violence. The sixty-year reign of terror is nearing an end.

    Oh 19th Amendment, where is thy sting!
     
    Do you’re saying that you wouldn’t be opposed to women voting if they weren’t on the pill?

    Women themselves will take care of that. They were against it in the first place and freed from the nefarious effects of the pill they may well spearhead the repeal.

    In any event its deleterious effects will be greatly ameliorated. Read the study.

  174. @Anonymous
    Surely, a great deal of the 'serious' political candidates who get elected either in the USA or in the UK are more ludicrous than Elmo - and probably have less brains than a child's stuffed rabbit.
    George W. Bush and Tony Blair spring to mind.

    Neither George W. Bush nor Tony Blair are deficient in intelligence. Neither is Adam Schiff.

    The problem with our political order is three-fold: wretched and barnacle-laden institutional set up (which no one can be bothered to consider altering), the calibre of our professional-managerial class generally, and the sort of professional-managerial type who prospers given the incentive structure and rules. You get a lot of unethical people because they’re all over the place in this world and the broader public tolerates them. You screen them so that the people who land on top are those who can ‘work a room’ and those who can navigate the politics of a legislative caucus. Ted Kennedy was great at the one and Nancy Pelosi is great at the other. (Pelosi I suspect actually does have intellectual deficits).

    Have a gander at the people who’ve run the Senate Republican caucus for the last six decades. Trent Lott never practiced law and was an employee of the U.S. Congress from the age of 25 to the age of 64, first as legislative staff and then as a member (after which he was hired by a lobbying firm). Mitch McConnell went back and forth for 10 years between time on legislative staffs, time as a law firm associate, and time as a government lawyer before getting elected to public office at age 35. He’s been in Congress for 34 years. Robert Dole has a certain amount of grit people don’t usually have. However, he had no pre-political career apart from his military service and his only time in law practice was as the elected corporation counsel of a county which had about 12,000 people living in it. Everett Dirksen was an appealing small-city Babbitt, but not someone of much accomplishment. He worked in his brothers’ business for about a dozen years, and then was in Congress for the rest of his life. Hugh Scott was a government lawyer for about 15 years (a prosecutor) before being elected to Congress. Howard Baker (1977-85) and Bill Frist (2003-07) are the only people who’ve led the Senate caucus who had handsome careers before entering politics and the only two who spent most of their working life in the private sector. You’ll also notice that among them, none were in an occupation which required mathematical skill or technological proficiency and among them only Frist was trained in natural sciences.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Look.

    *ANY* politician dumb-bastard enough to actually *believe* in Economist style open borders massive uncontrolled third world immigration, let alone implement it, in my view has got less brains - not to mention worth - than the bowel movement I passed this morning.

    Steve, *please* let this comment through.
  175. @Art Deco
    Neither George W. Bush nor Tony Blair are deficient in intelligence. Neither is Adam Schiff.

    The problem with our political order is three-fold: wretched and barnacle-laden institutional set up (which no one can be bothered to consider altering), the calibre of our professional-managerial class generally, and the sort of professional-managerial type who prospers given the incentive structure and rules. You get a lot of unethical people because they're all over the place in this world and the broader public tolerates them. You screen them so that the people who land on top are those who can 'work a room' and those who can navigate the politics of a legislative caucus. Ted Kennedy was great at the one and Nancy Pelosi is great at the other. (Pelosi I suspect actually does have intellectual deficits).

    Have a gander at the people who've run the Senate Republican caucus for the last six decades. Trent Lott never practiced law and was an employee of the U.S. Congress from the age of 25 to the age of 64, first as legislative staff and then as a member (after which he was hired by a lobbying firm). Mitch McConnell went back and forth for 10 years between time on legislative staffs, time as a law firm associate, and time as a government lawyer before getting elected to public office at age 35. He's been in Congress for 34 years. Robert Dole has a certain amount of grit people don't usually have. However, he had no pre-political career apart from his military service and his only time in law practice was as the elected corporation counsel of a county which had about 12,000 people living in it. Everett Dirksen was an appealing small-city Babbitt, but not someone of much accomplishment. He worked in his brothers' business for about a dozen years, and then was in Congress for the rest of his life. Hugh Scott was a government lawyer for about 15 years (a prosecutor) before being elected to Congress. Howard Baker (1977-85) and Bill Frist (2003-07) are the only people who've led the Senate caucus who had handsome careers before entering politics and the only two who spent most of their working life in the private sector. You'll also notice that among them, none were in an occupation which required mathematical skill or technological proficiency and among them only Frist was trained in natural sciences.

    Look.

    *ANY* politician dumb-bastard enough to actually *believe* in Economist style open borders massive uncontrolled third world immigration, let alone implement it, in my view has got less brains – not to mention worth – than the bowel movement I passed this morning.

    Steve, *please* let this comment through.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Linus Pauling was a promoter of political foolishness. He was also a Nobel laureate (in Chemistry).
  176. @Old Palo Altan
    Fair enough. I was using that "we" in the widest possible sense.

    Surely you too would wish to be in on the kill?

  177. @Art Deco
    Disraeli’s Tory Democracy killed the Liberal Party. Like Wile E. Coyote it took awhile to realize it was dead.

    IIRC, prior to about 1865, British political parties existed as parliamentary factions, not as incorporated membership organizations. Disraeli died in 1881, so you're telling me that he 'killed off' the Liberal Party within 15 years of its formation and no one noticed for a 50 year span of time (which included the run of years (1906-14) when a raft of consequential legislation was put into effect by Liberal MPs.

    There were a number of European countries wherein social democratic parties displaced liberal parties just prior to the 1st world war or just after (Germany and Sweden to name two), so I'm not seeing why anyone would attribute the phenomenon to the machinations of a single politician.

    The other person pushing this thesis fancies Churchill made an effort to turn the Conservative Party into a Liberal Party. The Liberal Party's signatures included a tendency to favor commercial and industrial interests over the landed interest and the Church, skepticism of the value of overseas possessions, and support for Home Rule in Ireland. Churchill was a religiously indifferent man who did favor Irish Home Rule, but he came out of the gentry and was a vigorous advocate of Empire.

    Free Trade was the big Liberal issue which tied together all the others. Britain abandoned free trade forever in the 1930s.

  178. The right-wing version of High & Low vs Middle:

  179. @Anonymous
    Look.

    *ANY* politician dumb-bastard enough to actually *believe* in Economist style open borders massive uncontrolled third world immigration, let alone implement it, in my view has got less brains - not to mention worth - than the bowel movement I passed this morning.

    Steve, *please* let this comment through.

    Linus Pauling was a promoter of political foolishness. He was also a Nobel laureate (in Chemistry).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    And your point is?
  180. @Desiderius
    No sir.

    If you wish to kill Her it will be over my dead body and that of millions of my countrymen. I'd rather it be more Republican than Democratic but I am very much still a man of the West. You go run along and play dead with Keynes. My boys and I have living to do.

    Democracy is antithetical to the historic Christian and hierarchical West.

    What will give you and your boys lives worth living is ordered liberty, not the rule of the mob.

    Our founding fathers understood this; I am genuinely puzzled that you don’t seem to.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Democracy is antithetical to the historic Christian and hierarchical West.
     
    That's Democracy in the Platonic sense. Good luck killing that. The current Aristotelian incarnation is the only thing standing between us and a Totalitarianism that would make Gletkin blush.

    Read the Spiliakos tweet again.

    The government Founded by the Fathers was more democratic (among a healthier franchise than we currently enjoy, granted) than Lord North's Deep State, especially in regard to the Fathers themselves, who risked a great deal of Disorder to secure their Liberty, and ours if we'll have it.

    Great wits sometimes may gloriously offend,
    And rise to faults true critics dare not mend;
    From vulgar bounds with brave disorder part,
    And snatch a grace beyond the reach of art,
    Which, without passing through the judgment, gains
    The heart, and all its end at once attains.
  181. • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/sairasameerarao/status/1205599707915046912
  182. @Old Palo Altan
    Democracy is antithetical to the historic Christian and hierarchical West.

    What will give you and your boys lives worth living is ordered liberty, not the rule of the mob.

    Our founding fathers understood this; I am genuinely puzzled that you don't seem to.

    Democracy is antithetical to the historic Christian and hierarchical West.

    That’s Democracy in the Platonic sense. Good luck killing that. The current Aristotelian incarnation is the only thing standing between us and a Totalitarianism that would make Gletkin blush.

    Read the Spiliakos tweet again.

    The government Founded by the Fathers was more democratic (among a healthier franchise than we currently enjoy, granted) than Lord North’s Deep State, especially in regard to the Fathers themselves, who risked a great deal of Disorder to secure their Liberty, and ours if we’ll have it.

    Great wits sometimes may gloriously offend,
    And rise to faults true critics dare not mend;
    From vulgar bounds with brave disorder part,
    And snatch a grace beyond the reach of art,
    Which, without passing through the judgment, gains
    The heart, and all its end at once attains.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    "Western democracy is senile and superannuated and beyond recovery. It’s time to just let the whole thing die."

    This is the comment by ID which I in my turn commented upon.

    Like the election of Trump, that of Johnson has given us all a moment of hope, and has caught the imagination of even the most pessimistic of us (i.e. myself).

    Yes, the people of England (not Scotland, who voted precisely for totalitarianism - they are vestigial Calvinists, so why wouldn't they) have pulled us out of the fire. But for how long? Johnson is not going to address the main question, which is non-European, non-Christian, mass immigration.

    Note that ID says "the whole thing". I take that to mean Western Europe too. There "democracy" is failing comprehensively: in Germany the greater part of the people remain smugly blind, while in Italy, where they are waking up, the political class nullifies their vote.

    This is the democracy which is"senile and superannuated and beyond recovery" and the one I want dead. If the Anglo-Saxon model can be restored to good health, then I would be glad enough to have been proved wrong.

    I do believe though, that the "great wits" we so desperately need today will find another solution, one which will also "gain the hearts" of the European peoples and thus "all at once" attain the end, the solution, which our civilisation requires if it is to be saved.
  183. @Art Deco
    Linus Pauling was a promoter of political foolishness. He was also a Nobel laureate (in Chemistry).

    And your point is?

  184. @JMcG
    Does anyone know what’s going on in the northeast part of Scotland that went Tory? Is that unusual?

    NE Scotland, Aberdeen in particular, includes the oil wealth of the North Sea. Also historically NE Scotland and the Borders are more conservative and unionist, hence their electing Conservative and Unionist MPs.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Thank you for the response, it’s much appreciated.
  185. @LondonBob
    NE Scotland, Aberdeen in particular, includes the oil wealth of the North Sea. Also historically NE Scotland and the Borders are more conservative and unionist, hence their electing Conservative and Unionist MPs.

    Thank you for the response, it’s much appreciated.

  186. @Desiderius

    Democracy is antithetical to the historic Christian and hierarchical West.
     
    That's Democracy in the Platonic sense. Good luck killing that. The current Aristotelian incarnation is the only thing standing between us and a Totalitarianism that would make Gletkin blush.

    Read the Spiliakos tweet again.

    The government Founded by the Fathers was more democratic (among a healthier franchise than we currently enjoy, granted) than Lord North's Deep State, especially in regard to the Fathers themselves, who risked a great deal of Disorder to secure their Liberty, and ours if we'll have it.

    Great wits sometimes may gloriously offend,
    And rise to faults true critics dare not mend;
    From vulgar bounds with brave disorder part,
    And snatch a grace beyond the reach of art,
    Which, without passing through the judgment, gains
    The heart, and all its end at once attains.

    “Western democracy is senile and superannuated and beyond recovery. It’s time to just let the whole thing die.”

    This is the comment by ID which I in my turn commented upon.

    Like the election of Trump, that of Johnson has given us all a moment of hope, and has caught the imagination of even the most pessimistic of us (i.e. myself).

    Yes, the people of England (not Scotland, who voted precisely for totalitarianism – they are vestigial Calvinists, so why wouldn’t they) have pulled us out of the fire. But for how long? Johnson is not going to address the main question, which is non-European, non-Christian, mass immigration.

    Note that ID says “the whole thing”. I take that to mean Western Europe too. There “democracy” is failing comprehensively: in Germany the greater part of the people remain smugly blind, while in Italy, where they are waking up, the political class nullifies their vote.

    This is the democracy which is”senile and superannuated and beyond recovery” and the one I want dead. If the Anglo-Saxon model can be restored to good health, then I would be glad enough to have been proved wrong.

    I do believe though, that the “great wits” we so desperately need today will find another solution, one which will also “gain the hearts” of the European peoples and thus “all at once” attain the end, the solution, which our civilisation requires if it is to be saved.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    There is only one Wit with the wherewithal to accomplish that. Salvation as ever will require the turning of hardened hearts to Him. It is our task to defeat those willfully dedicated to preventing that day, and the soldiers at hand are likelier to be found among the Demos than the Hierarchs, such as they are, at least initially. Who knows where the chips will fall when their bubble bursts?

    As for the Scots, it was my understanding they threw out Labour as well. Who can blame them for wanting their own country back now that the only Union their erstwhile betters care about is the European one?

    And BoJo? We don't yet know what he will address, since he hasn't previously enjoyed such a majority. Evidently his first target is the BBC, which is an outstanding start.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack
    , @Not Raul
    For every “Polish Plumber” BJ keeps out of the UK, several non-Christians and/or Africans will take their place. BJ is loyal to his Oxbridge hedge fund mates.
  187. @Old Palo Altan
    "Western democracy is senile and superannuated and beyond recovery. It’s time to just let the whole thing die."

    This is the comment by ID which I in my turn commented upon.

    Like the election of Trump, that of Johnson has given us all a moment of hope, and has caught the imagination of even the most pessimistic of us (i.e. myself).

    Yes, the people of England (not Scotland, who voted precisely for totalitarianism - they are vestigial Calvinists, so why wouldn't they) have pulled us out of the fire. But for how long? Johnson is not going to address the main question, which is non-European, non-Christian, mass immigration.

    Note that ID says "the whole thing". I take that to mean Western Europe too. There "democracy" is failing comprehensively: in Germany the greater part of the people remain smugly blind, while in Italy, where they are waking up, the political class nullifies their vote.

    This is the democracy which is"senile and superannuated and beyond recovery" and the one I want dead. If the Anglo-Saxon model can be restored to good health, then I would be glad enough to have been proved wrong.

    I do believe though, that the "great wits" we so desperately need today will find another solution, one which will also "gain the hearts" of the European peoples and thus "all at once" attain the end, the solution, which our civilisation requires if it is to be saved.

    There is only one Wit with the wherewithal to accomplish that. Salvation as ever will require the turning of hardened hearts to Him. It is our task to defeat those willfully dedicated to preventing that day, and the soldiers at hand are likelier to be found among the Demos than the Hierarchs, such as they are, at least initially. Who knows where the chips will fall when their bubble bursts?

    As for the Scots, it was my understanding they threw out Labour as well. Who can blame them for wanting their own country back now that the only Union their erstwhile betters care about is the European one?

    And BoJo? We don’t yet know what he will address, since he hasn’t previously enjoyed such a majority. Evidently his first target is the BBC, which is an outstanding start.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    It seems that nobody likes the BBC. Labour considers them pro-Tory.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    You've got it precisely backwards where the benighted Scots are concerned (but so does most everybody else; the press lies and misleads on this as on every other issue): they have abandoned Labour, yes, but not for the Tories (which they hate as the "English" party) but for the Scottish Nationalists. This party was founded decades ago by eccentric nationalists of a decidedly right-wing bent, but the party has moved ever leftwards, and is now utterly totalitarian, anti-Christian, and entirely subject, and proudly so, to the EU and its dictates.
    The greatest irony of all though is that, although "Nationalist" is in its title, it is a globalist, pro-mass immigration party which, if given another ten years, will do to Scotland what Blair and his friends did to London - i.e., turn it into a foreign body in the midst of a once green and pleasant land, although, for Scotland, one must replace "green and pleasant" with "grey and barren", wildly beautiful though so much of it undoubtedly is.

    Johnson is starting well, so let's keep our fingers crossed.

  188. Anon[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    That is exactly what I’m saying. As with most geniuses, Disraeli was well ahead of his time. Trump presents a similar threat to contemporary liberals, which goes a good way to explain why they’re losing their goddamned minds trying to stop him.

    I thought Labour killed off the Liberal party. That, and the Irish who were willing to support them in coalition ceased to be a part of the UK (and probably wouldn’t have kept supporting them anyway).

    Churchill was a religiously indifferent man who did favor Irish Home Rule, but he came out of the gentry and was a vigorous advocate of Empire.

    So far as I can tell Churchill’s opinions seemed to have favored the expedient.

  189. @Steve Sailer
    The LibDems seems like the world's most self-defeating political party.

    I agree. Either Jo Swinson is a world class idiot, or she actually wanted the Conservatives to win.

    The LibDems’ representation in Parliament crashed due to their coalition government with the Conservatives between 2010 and 2015, and might never recover.

    It seems that the whole point of the party is to provide an opportunity for the upper-middle-class to do a lot of virtue signaling, and still keep Labour from winning.

    I think that Vince Cable predicted that it would be all downhill after the LibDems did well in the May 2019 European Parliament election, and didn’t want to be holding the bag when things fell apart.

  190. @Desiderius
    There is only one Wit with the wherewithal to accomplish that. Salvation as ever will require the turning of hardened hearts to Him. It is our task to defeat those willfully dedicated to preventing that day, and the soldiers at hand are likelier to be found among the Demos than the Hierarchs, such as they are, at least initially. Who knows where the chips will fall when their bubble bursts?

    As for the Scots, it was my understanding they threw out Labour as well. Who can blame them for wanting their own country back now that the only Union their erstwhile betters care about is the European one?

    And BoJo? We don't yet know what he will address, since he hasn't previously enjoyed such a majority. Evidently his first target is the BBC, which is an outstanding start.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack

    It seems that nobody likes the BBC. Labour considers them pro-Tory.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Labour considers windmills giants. Get back to us in ten years if they even still exist. They've always been the better part of a lie.
  191. @Old Palo Altan
    "Western democracy is senile and superannuated and beyond recovery. It’s time to just let the whole thing die."

    This is the comment by ID which I in my turn commented upon.

    Like the election of Trump, that of Johnson has given us all a moment of hope, and has caught the imagination of even the most pessimistic of us (i.e. myself).

    Yes, the people of England (not Scotland, who voted precisely for totalitarianism - they are vestigial Calvinists, so why wouldn't they) have pulled us out of the fire. But for how long? Johnson is not going to address the main question, which is non-European, non-Christian, mass immigration.

    Note that ID says "the whole thing". I take that to mean Western Europe too. There "democracy" is failing comprehensively: in Germany the greater part of the people remain smugly blind, while in Italy, where they are waking up, the political class nullifies their vote.

    This is the democracy which is"senile and superannuated and beyond recovery" and the one I want dead. If the Anglo-Saxon model can be restored to good health, then I would be glad enough to have been proved wrong.

    I do believe though, that the "great wits" we so desperately need today will find another solution, one which will also "gain the hearts" of the European peoples and thus "all at once" attain the end, the solution, which our civilisation requires if it is to be saved.

    For every “Polish Plumber” BJ keeps out of the UK, several non-Christians and/or Africans will take their place. BJ is loyal to his Oxbridge hedge fund mates.

  192. @Desiderius
    There is only one Wit with the wherewithal to accomplish that. Salvation as ever will require the turning of hardened hearts to Him. It is our task to defeat those willfully dedicated to preventing that day, and the soldiers at hand are likelier to be found among the Demos than the Hierarchs, such as they are, at least initially. Who knows where the chips will fall when their bubble bursts?

    As for the Scots, it was my understanding they threw out Labour as well. Who can blame them for wanting their own country back now that the only Union their erstwhile betters care about is the European one?

    And BoJo? We don't yet know what he will address, since he hasn't previously enjoyed such a majority. Evidently his first target is the BBC, which is an outstanding start.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack

    You’ve got it precisely backwards where the benighted Scots are concerned (but so does most everybody else; the press lies and misleads on this as on every other issue): they have abandoned Labour, yes, but not for the Tories (which they hate as the “English” party) but for the Scottish Nationalists. This party was founded decades ago by eccentric nationalists of a decidedly right-wing bent, but the party has moved ever leftwards, and is now utterly totalitarian, anti-Christian, and entirely subject, and proudly so, to the EU and its dictates.
    The greatest irony of all though is that, although “Nationalist” is in its title, it is a globalist, pro-mass immigration party which, if given another ten years, will do to Scotland what Blair and his friends did to London – i.e., turn it into a foreign body in the midst of a once green and pleasant land, although, for Scotland, one must replace “green and pleasant” with “grey and barren”, wildly beautiful though so much of it undoubtedly is.

    Johnson is starting well, so let’s keep our fingers crossed.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I know they didn't vote Tory, that's why I said what I did about wanting their country back. The Scots have always flirted with the Continental powers but were too ugly to earn more than a fling. So would it be were the UK to dissolve.
  193. @Not Raul
    It seems that nobody likes the BBC. Labour considers them pro-Tory.

    Labour considers windmills giants. Get back to us in ten years if they even still exist. They’ve always been the better part of a lie.

  194. @Old Palo Altan
    You've got it precisely backwards where the benighted Scots are concerned (but so does most everybody else; the press lies and misleads on this as on every other issue): they have abandoned Labour, yes, but not for the Tories (which they hate as the "English" party) but for the Scottish Nationalists. This party was founded decades ago by eccentric nationalists of a decidedly right-wing bent, but the party has moved ever leftwards, and is now utterly totalitarian, anti-Christian, and entirely subject, and proudly so, to the EU and its dictates.
    The greatest irony of all though is that, although "Nationalist" is in its title, it is a globalist, pro-mass immigration party which, if given another ten years, will do to Scotland what Blair and his friends did to London - i.e., turn it into a foreign body in the midst of a once green and pleasant land, although, for Scotland, one must replace "green and pleasant" with "grey and barren", wildly beautiful though so much of it undoubtedly is.

    Johnson is starting well, so let's keep our fingers crossed.

    I know they didn’t vote Tory, that’s why I said what I did about wanting their country back. The Scots have always flirted with the Continental powers but were too ugly to earn more than a fling. So would it be were the UK to dissolve.

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