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Ethnicity Looks Something Like Kinship
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Update: Dr. Jones explains his paper on his blog here.

From Evolution and Human Behavior:

Evolution and Human Behavior
Volume 39, Issue 1, January 2018, Pages 9-18
Kin selection and ethnic group selection
Doug Jones

Abstract
Ethnicity looks something like kinship on a larger scale. The same math can be used to measure genetic similarity within ethnic/racial groups and relatedness within families. For example, members of the same continental race are about as related (r = 0.18–0.26) as half-siblings (r = 0.25). However (contrary to some claims) the theory of kin selection does not apply straightforwardly to ethnicity, because inclusive fitness calculations based on Hamilton’s rule break down when there are complicated social interactions within groups, and/or groups are large and long-lasting. A more promising approach is a theory of ethnic group selection, a special case of cultural group selection. An elementary model shows that the genetic assimilation of a socially enforced cultural regime can promote group solidarity and lead to the regulation of recruitment to groups, and to altruism between groups, based on genetic similarity – in short, to ethnic nepotism. Several lines of evidence, from historical population genetics and political psychology, are relevant here.

 
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  1. It’s a shame that Lewontin isn’t with us anymore to obscure these (quite obvious) findings.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
  2. So, ethnicity is the polite word for race?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  3. Catdog says:

    For example, members of the same continental race are about as related (r = 0.18–0.26) as half-siblings (r = 0.25).

    What does that actually mean?

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  4. ic1000 says:

    > For example, members of the same continental race are about as related (r = 0.18–0.26) as half-siblings (r = 0.25).

    I can’t make any sense out of this claim.

    r = 0.18-0.26 for members of the same continental race [of different families, presumably]
    r = 0.25 for half-siblings [with the three parents from three different continental races?]

    So, what’s r for half-siblings with all three parents from the same continental race?

    • Agree: Catdog
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    , @res
  5. Ethnicity is kinship writ large – I thought this was common sense knowledge

    • Agree: mark green
  6. I wonder what they will discover next?

    The sky is blue

    Water is wet.

    Rape is part of black culture.

    *Shaking my head*

    Imagine spending millions of dollars to confirm the most obvious of facts.

  7. Don’t need math to know that people prefer to be around people that are like them, share their cultural values and are decent people. That goes across all ethnic groups and races.

  8. The South African Army seems to have clamped down and created some order in SA.

    Can anyone

    1. Verify if this is true?
    2. Is the SA Army dominated by Xhosa?

    Bonus: has Trevor Noah said anything about the situation yet?

  9. @Buffalo Joe

    Don’t need math to know that people prefer to be around people that are like them, share their cultural values and are decent people. That goes across all ethnic groups and races.

    More to the point, you don’t need much to see that there were populations extant before the modern era which were quite geographically and socially isolated from one another. Before the modern era very few people traveled much, and the lifetime radius of their travels if any is quite modest. “Beyond the mountains” really was quite a different world.

    • Agree: Rob McX
    • Replies: @Rob McX
  10. My theory is that all tribes bigger than straight kinship are “fake-tribes” created by a narrative of fake kinship. But really what happens is that every tribe, from race to nation, issues from the fact of the men in the tribe having fought together in battle.

    You know, like a gang in an inner city.

    There are no brothers like brothers-in-arms.

  11. peterike says:

    Everything I needed to know I learned in kindergarten.

  12. @Buffalo Joe

    Not people who’d rather rule the world.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  13. @Fluesterwitz

    It used to be, until someone found it to be “code”. Code= dog whistle

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  14. Mike Tre says:

    It’s a shame that the more we realize about race, the more we realize most civilizations had this shit figured out centuries ago.

    • Agree: 3g4me
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  15. @Buffalo Joe

    Don’t need math to know that people prefer to be around people that are like them, share their cultural values and are decent people. That goes across all ethnic groups and races.

    Buff–Totally agree to your statement. But “shared cultural values” ride with ethnicity–that’s where they come from. (Or else how do they get shared?)

    I get along with people of a whole bunch of racial and ethnic groups. But in the context of normal generic American culture, which was formed out of America’s particular Anglo heritage and more broadly the whole Western Christian–open, cooperative, high affective-empathy, high trust–cultural/psychological genetic/cultural toolkit.

    That has/had a number of pleasant benefits like neighborliness, rule-of-law, low corruption. But it is decidedly *not* universal. –

    This isn’t how China operates. This isn’t how India operates. Certainly not how Mexico operates (LOL). And isn’t how Detroit operates. (In fact, basic the only nations that are even “high-trust” seem to be Western Europe and Japan–Japan coming at it from a completely different program.)

    You flood in enough people from elsewhere and … you don’t have it anymore. Your little slice of the Western Christian civilization is gone. You have a squabbling cacophony of querulous tribes. Considerably less pleasant.

    And as Des points out … that’s what certain elites like. They don’t want “shared cultural values” and “decent people”. Such people can rule themselves just fine–no “management” required nor desired. No these elites just want a big marketplace with a bullying super-state to keep in line while the looting rolls on.

  16. If one bothers to look.

    Outstanding thread here:

    Exacerbated by the credentialing system actively purging many of the truly best and brightest for awhile now, along with many seeking other opportunities outside it, and one has our present Derp State trainwreck.

    • Thanks: J.Ross
    • Replies: @Rob Lee
  17. Sorry, OT but WOW.

    • Thanks: Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  18. Rob Lee says:
    @Desiderius

    There are many types of ‘smart.’

    I have a friend who is an absolute wizard at plumbing. He started young – apprenticed and moved up to found his own very successful string of businesses with several tens of employees. He deals with simple objects that I recognize – pipes, tools, fittings, yet does things with them that are indicative of a truly intelligent person who intuitively grasps systems. His favorite saying is “Plumbing is an essential service: Doctors and lawyers cry when I hand them my repair bill.’

    My older brother is a human geneticist in Wisconsin. He once handed me his doctoral thesis and I quite simply couldn’t get beyond the first paragraph. The rest was literally gibberish to me. I’m not a stupid person, but the deciphering of the graphs, symbols and charts he created were simply beyond me. I’m just thankful he’s doing breast cancer research and not trying to create zombies.

    Clearly there are – as you say – many kinds of intelligence, and I sincerely believe that the types of credentialed intelligence that our elites most prize are often arbitrarily selected just so they can keep their selected wagons circled and the outsiders… well, out.

    • Agree: Gordo, Desiderius
  19. Washington State congressional candidate.

    • Thanks: Polistra
  20. @ic1000

    > For example, members of the same continental race are about as related (r = 0.18–0.26) as half-siblings (r = 0.25).

    I can’t make any sense out of this claim.

    r = 0.18-0.26 for members of the same continental race [of different families, presumably]
    r = 0.25 for half-siblings [with the three parents from three different continental races?]

    So, what’s r for half-siblings with all three parents from the same continental race?

    Yeah, same thought here. I’ve done that simple “cousins math” thing since i was a kid. How much more related am i to my brother (1/2) as my cousins (1/8). But these sentences are comparing that–simplistic inheritance–stuff to this question of overall relatedness in a race vs. everyone else in the world.

    My poke. Naively …

    — You’re spot on, same alleles, related to your half-siblings (i ain’t got none!) .25 on average
    — If we assume that your parents and your half-sibs parents are both basically randomly chosen bar picks from among the same ethnic populate that is inter-related (0,18-0.26–we’ll call it 0.20) relative to the world, then you (.25+.75*.20) about .40 related to your half-sib compared to some average rando human at what? Zero?
    — In contrast is all three parents are from un-related ethnic groups–i.e. separate bar pickups in separate continents during your dad’s sailor days–then you’re only .25 related to your half sib; a more modest relatedness upgrade on “random human”.

    But that’s my half-assed poke. I don’t even know if those numbers they trot out for ethnic group relatedness can be worked like that. And what about differ race humans?

    Obviously all humans are quite a bit related–five fingers, five toes. But the different race ones are close to zero related in the context of all human variation. I’d imagine that out of all extant human variation, i share very little with say Pygmies or the Kalahari Bushmen. But they’ll be some. Because the Chinese or Tibetans or Eskimos will have mutations that neither the Bushmen nor i have (sporting our ancestral allele).

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @ic1000
    , @blake121666
  21. Dan Smith says:

    Steve, I’m trying to get through “How to be an Antiracist.” Tough sledding. You should challenge Kendi to a debate.

  22. Ethnicity looks like Kinship and what about the Jews Organized Globally(JOG) using their loot to push the World War Tranny Global Agenda?

    Soccer Lady Kate Burns says:

    Claiming a cabal of rich Jews is aiming to undermine society is now and has always been antisemitic.

    I say:

    What if it’s true?

    Claiming a cabal of rich WASPs is aiming to undermine society is now and has always been anti-WASP.

    What if the WASP turds are doing it?

    A guy from Alabama that Ron Unz has featured on Unz Review brings up The Economist magazine and some lady named Joyce who claims that Jew plutocrats are funding World War Tranny and it’s only Monday.

    This other lady named Kate Burns might be a loony gal but she brought up Bezos’s ex-wife who also poured big fat loot into World War Tranny.

    It’s tough to keep up.

    Then there is a Pritzker Tranny now situated in Tennessee and he thinks because he has big bucks he can tell everybody else to go phuck off.

    I will financially liquidate all billionaires if I ever come to power and that is what William the Conqueror would do. Jew billionaire or Bezos’s ex-wife, I don’t give a phuck; financially liquidate these damn arrogant billionaires now!

    William the Conqueror and George Washington and Andrew Jackson are the three leading figures of WHITE CORE AMERICA.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  23. Ethnicity Looks Something Like Kinship

    I say:

    What on earth is the problem with a European Christian majority in the USA?

    Jews Organized Globally(JOG) is an outfit of anti-White Jews who spend big loot and pay out big bribes to flood European Christian nations — USA, England, France, Australia, Germany, Canada, Italy…etc. — with foreigners in order to implement WHITE GENOCIDE in White Christian nations.

    Now, crazy Jew demography oblivious nutcakes in Israel are saying anything goes like drunk Cole Porter or Darrell Porter and they want to flood out the Jew majority in Israel.

    JEW ISRAEL NUTCAKES DISREGARD DEMOGRAPHY

    Civil war is heading for Israel just like Civil War II is heading to the USA.

    Demographic Subversion and Debt will lead to civil war in the USA and Israel.

  24. Altai says:

    OT: The British media are continuing their fake trending pieces on ‘racist abuse’ online.

    https://news.sky.com/story/lewis-hamilton-receives-racist-abuse-after-celebrating-silverstone-win-while-max-verstappen-was-still-in-hospital-12358585

    Hamilton basically sent Verstappen to the hospital and then went on to win and celebrate. But the real story is that some of the negativity he got online was ‘racist’ we’re told.

    And the main flagship current affairs programme in Britain, NewsNight spent at least 2 days after the Euro final talking about it.

    They’re positively salivating for ‘racism’.

    Hamilton has been a vocal supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement following the murder of George Floyd in the US.

    He takes a knee before all races and has recently commissioned a self-titled report into representation of ethnic minority communities in racing.

    The Hamilton Commission found that black people make up less than 1% of the workforce in UK motor racing.

    Verstappen famously didn’t take a knee but at least they didn’t put that in to imply that, actually, he deserved to crash and end up in hospital.

    • Thanks: Gordo
  25. Rob McX says:

    In other news, water doesn’t flow uphill.

  26. Rob McX says:
    @Altai

    What amazes me is how few instances of such online abuse there are, considering that there are twisted people out there who never miss a chance to offend someone – even families who lose a loved one in some horrible accident get abusive phone calls mocking their loss. I bet at least half the abuse Hamilton is getting comes from antifa trolls.

    • Agree: Hangnail Hans
    • Replies: @Altai
    , @J.Ross
  27. @Buffalo Joe

    Ali knew it. (He was also against race-mixing of butterflies and bees.)

    • Thanks: Voltarde
    • Replies: @PaceLaw
  28. @Desiderius

    Desi, Ok, not those people. But people like us. Common humanity in all its forms.

  29. @AnotherDad

    Another Dad, thank you for your reply, nicely stated. I am now 75 and I grew up Catholic in the city of Buffalo. You generally lived in an Ethnic neighborhood and attended our parish school. I didn’t meet Poles,Irish,Germans etc. until I went to a Diocesean HS, where the guys came from different neighborhoods (parishes). Four years and we blended together quite well. Catholic college is where I met the guys from the wealthy neighborhoods and prep schools. I probably went to school, all schools, with maybe a dozen black guys, but they were locked into the same education system. Another words, behave, learn or be gone. Stay safe buddy

  30. @AnotherDad

    Great points.

    The “open, cooperative, high affective-empathy, high trust-cultural/psychological genetic/cultural toolkit” is dying. The highest open cooperation societies were northwest Europe and the United States, and they’re the ones that because they were so open decided that any type of preferences for their own genetic relatives was racist, so they’ve dismantled their societies. Anyone who objects is shunned as outside the pale.

    Look at the United States. The greatest opposition to the current ruling class comes from whites whose origins tend to be more southern and eastern European, and thus less open and high cooperation, and more clan and family based. Still more open than, say, Middle Eastern society, but still more closed off than what came before. So even if “we” managed to win, it wouldn’t be “we” any more.

    The West is growing more violent, less trusting, more corrupt, and ultimately poorer. Not for those at the top, but for everyone else. And the problem lay in that the completely historically unique and unprecedented rise of the new society planted the seeds for its own destruction, by assuming its uniqueness could be easily replicated.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
  31. ic1000 says:
    @AnotherDad

    I think there is a convention here that we are missing (and that I didn’t pick up from skimming the paper). It would have to do with the baseline.

    How related am I to my half-siblings compared to my relatedness with …
    … average members of my continental race?
    … average members of a different continental race?
    … the average Pygmy/Bushman (least-related living human)?
    … the average chimpanzee (most-closely related non-human primate)?

    The relatedness value would be additive, as you suggest.

    DNA similarity can be expressed in absolute terms, in the old days it was measured by “melting curve” profiles. You could use it to show that, say, the offspring of a Bushman-Chinese marriage would be less closely related to each other (on average) than would be the offspring of the King and Queen of Hawaii (who were themselves inbred, and from the same family).

  32. We?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  33. Related, from the post-kin people:

    • Replies: @Pixo
    , @AnotherDad
  34. Altai says:
    @Rob McX

    That’s the point, we’re never told how many messages there were. Each incident no matter how incidental is taken as a casus belli for more haranguing of the ethnic group that is the least ethnocentric, the native one. (What do a small cohort of guys with Rangers badges for profiles have to do with day to day interactions with whites?) What Steve has dubbed the ‘frontlash’ guarding and predicting a backlash that never comes.

    Much like how the pull tie at the NASCAR facilities that had been there for years was taken as a noose and a small army of FBI agents were sent down and a massive campaign to shame and attack Southern WASPs was unleashed.

    How dare they not know their place.

    • Agree: Hangnail Hans
  35. Pixo says:
    @Desiderius

    Knocking an obvious issue out of the way, the fact that puberty blockers “have been in use for decades for precocious puberty” tells us nothing about this very different use-case: The data we have suggest the vast majority of transgender and gender nonconforming (TGNC) kids who go on blockers proceed to cross-sex hormones, and we have almost no longitudinal outcome data on kids who never go through a full natal puberty, but rather a pseudopuberty brought on by exogenous cross-sex hormones.

    Yikes! We’re running a vast long term experiment with attentionwhore weirdo mothers cause their early-teenage sons to have a female puberty, and vice versa.

  36. [MORE]

    Can confirm, with some (very) limited and not very meaningful exceptions. People just wanted to know what motions they had to go through with some true believers eating this up as they’d have eaten up anything evidently.

    Still shocked at the utter obliviousness from those who seemingly prided themselves on being in the know and/or those who should have known and stopped it/been teaching the sorts of things I learned a mere generation before.

  37. @AnotherDad

    I think you’re overthinking it.

    You are 0.5 related to each of your parents. So 2 people who share one parent (not both) are 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.25 related.

    Half- siblings are therefore 0.25 related.

  38. PaceLaw says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Well, he was a staunch member of the Nation of Islam after all. I seem to recall that they also believe in the inherent evilness and inferiority of whites. No surprise here . . .

  39. Meanwhile over at the Smithsonian…

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/many-myths-term-anglo-saxon-180978169/

    Both American and English writers have rebranded “Anglo-Saxon” to include false narratives around white racial superiority. President Thomas Jefferson perpetuated the Anglo-Saxon myth as a kind of racial prophecy of white conquest, envisioning early settlers as the continuation of their Europeans forebears. The entire settler-colonial narrative has always centered on white people migrating to the Americas just as the German tribes migrated to the British Isle. Their immigration appears natural and necessary within the larger narrative of Europe standing at the apex of civilization.

    Welp, that settles that. Don’t you dare imagine a shared ancestry with your Kin white people. That would be racist. 🙄

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  40. J.Ross says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    How much must Brightly Colored Frozen AIDS cost in Palestinian Territories? They’re a luxury item here. Before they became repugnant enough for a lardball such as myself to give up on them altogether, I resisted visiting a parlor of theirs because of the prices (and because a nearby local competitor was better, and more prettily staffed, anyway). In the Territories there must be some insane markup besides prohibitive availability problems.

  41. J.Ross says:
    @Rob McX

    Telling someone to kill themselves online is illegal, at least in Michigan. Donovan’s leftist trolls on 4chan announce themselves by (among other things) almost always telling people to kill themselves.

  42. Doug Jones says: • Website

    Thanks to Steve Sailer for mentioning my article. I’ve got some remarks on the article on my logarithmichistory blog. (Link above and below, I hope.)

    https://logarithmichistory.wordpress.com/2018/01/07/kin-selection-and-ethnic-group-selection/

  43. @JohnnyWalker123

    One of the gayest looking players I’ve ever seen so no surprise here. Also, this is gonna get him, not a roster spot but definitely a trump card if it comes down to him and a few other players for a roster spot.

  44. @Altai

    The focus on “racism” in soccer is to avoid the real scandal that causes genuine lasting harm which is the sodomite pedophiles preying on the young boys.
    There’s a consistent pattern of this being ignore throughout British institutions.
    It’s appalling.

    • Agree: Gordo
  45. @Desiderius

    Nuclear power is perhaps the most obvious tell that 99% of the “global warming” blather/interest is political–more power for the super-state and all its “educated” (but ignorant) apparatchiks–our tedious minders and managers.

    Nuclear power is the one carbon free source that
    — is “baseline”, on even when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow
    — doesn’t do the environment disruption of say building a dam and flooding some wilderness canyon; or whacking some birds with a windmill
    — we already know how to do and can expand at will.

    There’s all sorts of advanced stuff our nation should be researching–breeders, thorium cycle and, of course, further out fusion. But existing technology–including new safer BWR and pebble bed designs (not to dismiss other new PWR and other designs; not up on the field)–is ready to go.

    If you don’t want to expand nuclear in order to shut down existing fossil fuel consumption, then you are not actual serious about “global warming” and really don’t believe it’s some sort of existential crisis.

  46. • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  47. @JohnnyWalker123

    We’re probably only a few decades out from biological science being able to figure out the male homosexual failure mode and being able to detect–and hopefully stop–it.

    Maybe Cochran’s right and it’s as simple as a bug?

    But living in this “celebrate dysfunction!” fag-raj sure is annoying.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Gordo
    , @Jack D
  48. @Desiderius

    One weird benny from the tranny thing–it’s obviously nuts.

    The whole homosexual thing–basically just more anti-normality minoritarianism–can be couched in terms of being tolerant, and “nice” to people who were just dealt a bad hand. (The fact that they are obnoxious a*holes who can’t shut the heck up and the whole thing works as an attack on the idea of normality, healthy sexual relations and roles and continuance of the nation is the big problem with it.)

    But the tranny thing is the minoritarians going out and encouraging the maiming the people–most confused emotionally unstable young women (and there are always a ton of those)–in order to make a tiny mentally ill micro-minority feel better about their mental illness.

    It’s sheer minoritarian nut-baggery–encouraging mental illness and destruction of fertility. No confusion: Anyone who supports it is basically signally that they are lemming like doofus incapable of any critical thought … and with no idea of anything related to the healthy functioning of society.

    A huge tell. From people who’ve just lost it–not susceptible to any reason– … from whom we need immediate separation.

    • Replies: @Peterike
    , @Rob McX
    , @Gordo
    , @Bill
  49. Whiskey says: • Website

    Surprising no one has cottoned to the implications. Everyone is racist, and prefers their own ethnicity and race because its hard wired. It can’t be stopped. It can be moderated, somewhat. But its like trying to make families prefer strangers to each other — it can work on some, for a bit, but simply cannot scale.

    Racism scales. Anti-Racism does not. Cannot. Because it competes against genetic hard-wiring. We are genetically inclined to favor kin over non-kin. That simple.

    • Replies: @Bill
  50. @JohnnyWalker123

    Prokop is being scouted by the Nashville Predators.

    You cannot make this stuff up.

  51. @JohnnyWalker123

    Seriously start your own blog. Putting up all the non sequitur links is insulting to Steve and the community here

  52. @JohnnyWalker123

    I’m not sure I get this. In solidarity with the Palestinian cause they won’t sell ice cream in Palestinian neighborhoods?

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
  53. That’ll teach them Netanyahus!

    (Of course, only JW123 could have dropped this one, gratuitously, into comments on a post titled “Ethnicity Looks Something Like Kinship.”)

    • LOL: JohnnyWalker123
  54. @kaganovitch

    That’ll teach them Netanyahus!

    (Of course, only JW123 could have dropped this one, gratuitously, into comments on a post titled “Ethnicity Looks Something Like Kinship.”)

  55. @ArthurinCali

    Meanwhile over at the Smithsonian…

    The authors are from the Faggetii and Darkii tribes, respectively.

    Here are their Twitter bios:

    Dr. Erik Wade

    queer medievalist researching the global origins of ideas about sex/race in medieval English lit. helicopter parent to a kitty. phd. (he/him). views my own.

    Dr. Mary Rambaran-Olm

    Dr. MRO: Literary Historian | WoC: product of Black/brown love | #Antiracist | gif lover | racist magnet | #Blacklivesmatter | views my own, duh. (she/hers)

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  56. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Whoops. Sorry about the long post—I didn’t realize that posting the main Twitter links (for reference) would a embed a feed scroll! When I hit “publish” I got a weird WordPress login prompt and then I was not allowed to edit—the timed edit option disappeared. Steve, you can delete if you wish and I will resubmit the comment without the direct Twitter links.

    • Replies: @ArthurinCali
  57. @Mike Tre

    most civilizations had this shit figured out centuries ago.

    Our civilization had this figured out centuries ago too, but then, the liberal mind-virus happened.

    • Agree: AnotherDad, Mike Tre
  58. Peterike says:
    @AnotherDad

    “It’s sheer minoritarian nut-baggery–encouraging mental illness and destruction of fertility. No confusion: Anyone who supports it is basically signally that they are lemming like doofus incapable of any critical thought”

    Fair enough. But that happens to include 90% or so of anyone who has any actual power in Western societies.

  59. @Paperback Writer

    True that.

    But don’t know about “wow”. Your private world is probably pretty reasonable, but it’s obvious out in public–and pathetic.

    Come down and walk our beach sometime–like a nice weekend when folks are down from the north, the south and rolling over from Orlando. It’s ridiculous. The hogs would be thinking “too much time in the feedlot” and sending us to the slaughterhouse if they could.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
  60. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    At one time in an America far far away, the Smithsonian was an actual source of historical information. Those bios alone explain how low they have fallen.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @3g4me
  61. Charlotte says:
    @AnotherDad

    I agree with everything you say, but my own chief reservation about nuclear power is this: as society doubles down on AA to the detriment of competence and intelligence, how safe will nuclear reactors be in 10 or 20 or 30 years, when all those systemically racist white males hired in the good old days are long gone? The potential damage a bunch of incompetents could do by mismanaging a coal plant seems limited; I’m not so sure about a nuclear reactor. There may people on the left thinking along the same lines . . .

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Replies: @Rob McX
  62. @Redneck farmer

    It used to be, until someone found it to be “code”. Code= dog whistle

    We don’t need dog whistles, we need deer whistles. The kind that keep the critters away!

  63. @Altai

    He takes a knee before all races and has recently commissioned a self-titled report into representation of ethnic minority communities

    1. Before all races? Even Caucasians?

    2. Even Moslems only do their thing 5x per day.

  64. @ArthurinCali

    At one time in an America far far away, the Smithsonian was an actual source of historical information.

    Smithson, who admired but never visited (and thus never understood) America, made the huge mistake of siting it in Washington.

    It should always have been in Philadelphia. Likewise, the US offices of the Catholic Church belong in Baltimore.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  65. res says:
    @ic1000

    I can’t make sense of that claim either.

    I followed the reference for r = 0.18–0.26 (see Table 1)
    Salter, F., & Harpending, H. (2013). J. P. Rushton’s Theory of ethnic nepotism. Personality and Individual Differences, 55, 256–260.
    to
    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/j-p-rushtons-theory-of-ethnic-nepotism.pdf
    but I don’t see those numbers. In fact, Figures 1 and 2 seem like counterevidence. Figure 3 looks like the argument being made but comes up with a figure more like 0.06. But it does that by picking the closest kin, not the typical.

    I think what is going on is some sleight of hand with “relatedness,” but it is hard to sort out without a better reference. Probably something to do with using IBD in one context (actual relatives) but IBS in another (other members of the same race).

    This 2002 Harpending paper is cited by the paper above and has equation derivations. It also has this quote which seems like a slightly more conservative version of the same thing.

    Consider a population made up of two demes of exactly the same size and a genetic locus with exactly two alleles. The conclusion of the algebra below is that the familiar statistic that describes population subdivision, FST, is precisely kinship between members of the same deme. In other words genetic differences between demes imply genetic similarity within demes, and FST is just the coefficient of kinship between members of the same deme due to the population structure. For example FST among human populations is about 1/8, and this is just the coefficient of kinship in a single population between grandparent and grandchild, uncle and nephew, or half-sibs. In a diverse world, members of the same population are related to each other to the same degree that grandparents and grandchildren are related to each other in a single population.

    I tried searching https://westhunt.wordpress.com/ but did not see anything useful.

    I think this paper would cast some light if I understood it better.
    Inference of Relationships in Population Data Using Identity-by-Descent and Identity-by-State
    https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002287

    This paper also looks relevant.
    The Geography of Recent Genetic Ancestry across Europe
    https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555

    This paper offers what I think is a useful quote.
    Relatedness in the post-genomic era: is it still useful?
    https://si.biostat.washington.edu/sites/default/files/modules/Speed%20Balding%20NRG.pdf

    SNP-based measures of relatedness

    We distinguish genome-wide averages of single-SNP statistics from haplotype-based methods (which are sometimes referred to, respectively, as IBS and IBD methods, or as methods that do not and do take account of linkage32). Matrices of SNP-based kinship coefficients have been called genetic relatedness matrices in recent literature36,37 but, to avoid any implication that these matrices estimate pedigree-based relatedness, we prefer to call them genetic similarity matrices (GSMs).

    Can anyone clear this up? I’m pretty sure what we are seeing is using IBD to define kin relationship and IBS to define within race relationship, but would like to know for sure. Also, why is it so hard to find an estimate for how much typical siblings resemble each other IBS?

    Seems like this would be a good question for either Razib Khan or Greg Cochran.

    P.S. Does the claim “members of the same continental race are about as related as half-siblings” even come close to passing the smell test? This seems like an example of extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri, ic1000
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @ic1000
  66. Rob McX says:
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    More to the point, you don’t need much to see that there were populations extant before the modern era which were quite geographically and socially isolated from one another.

    And so were the pathogens they carried. We never properly planned for having a situation where humans and billions of other organisms can traverse the planet at supersonic speed.

  67. Rob McX says:
    @John Milton's Ghost

    People in high trust societies need to know when to stop going by their instincts that tell them everyone is as well-meaning as they are.

    A useful analogy might be diet. Grabbing all the available carbohydrates was a good strategy 100,000 years ago, but when you’re hitting 300lbs you might want to rethink that idea.

    It shouldn’t in theory have been that hard for Northwest European societies to preserve themselves. Forcing instinct to give way to rational thinking is one of the defining characteristics of civilization.

  68. Rob McX says:
    @AnotherDad

    But the tranny thing is the minoritarians going out and encouraging the maiming the people–most confused emotionally unstable young women (and there are always a ton of those)–in order to make a

    As you know, the primary purpose is not “to make a tiny mentally ill micro-minority feel better about their mental illness”. It’s to undermine and destroy white society (nobody cares that the Chinese and Africans aren’t buying into this) by erasing sexual identity and sexual roles, and thus removing the foundation on which any viable civilization depends. What could be better than encouraging impressionable white kids to sterilise themselves?

    I think a lot of the mothers who assist or encourage transgenderism in their children are cases of Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Normally, women with this condition injure their children to pretend they’re ill, and are sent to prison when caught. But the new craze for sexual mutilation provides a legal and risk-free way of indulging their pathology.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri, Catdog
    • Replies: @Dissident
  69. Rob McX says:
    @Charlotte

    Good point. Idiocracy with nuclear power plants is a frightening prospect, like giving a three-year-old the full run of your gun and ammo cabinet.

  70. @res

    Harpending pointed out that if he were going to visit a grandchild he’d never met before and came upon a group of white children playing on the sidewalk in front of the address he’d been given, he’d be challenged to identify his own grandchild. In contrast, if the group of children were of different races, he’d have no more and probably less trouble identifying them by race.

    • Replies: @res
  71. Steve — You have been wondering about the strange delay in the COVID vaccine until after the election — which certainly flipped the election outcome.

    Dr. Paul Offit was perhaps the most prominent member of the COVID vaccine committee at the FDA.

    Read this New York Times article from June by Paul Offit… extraordinary, no?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/opinion/trump-coronavirus-vaccine.html

    One of the main guys on the FDA’s COVID vaccine committee was openly expressing his terror at the prospect of a Trump October vaccine surprise in the New York Times. He penned a similar article, under his own name only, un May 2020 in Science magazine.

    Is it any wonder, then, that the FDA slow-walked the vaccine with everything on the line and Offit in the middle of the big FDA committee on the COVID vaccines?

  72. ic1000 says:
    @res

    > For example, members of the same continental race are about as related (r = 0.18–0.26) as half-siblings (r = 0.25).

    I can’t make any sense out of this claim.

    res, I appreciate the references. No time to read them today, but here are some background thoughts. Apologies in advance if this is too technical in places and overly simplistic in others.

    tl;dr — Yep, the authors make a major claim in their Abstract that is unevaluable by most (all?) readers.

    [MORE]

    Humans have about 25,000 different genes, and lots of additional DNA that is between genes. You and I and a KhoeSan ancestor are likely to share identical versions of any given gene. (By “KhoeSan ancestor,” I mean to refer to a “purebred” Pygmy or Bushman without Bantu admixture, representative of the most-distant extant homo sapiens lineage, with respect to all other lineages.)

    However, the differences in phenotype among you and me and a Pygmy are largely inherited. Per Sailer, Fermi estimate of the nature/nurture split can be 50/50. The inherited/nature differences are mostly (~~90%?) due to differences in the sequences of the DNA that comprises the genes. Where your gene is not the same as mine, we have different alleles of that gene. A gene might have a length of 100,000 bases (the A-G-C-T “letters” of the DNA alphabet). One of that gene’s alleles is the “ancestral” form, commonly called the “wild-type” or wt form. An altered (i.e. mutated, evolved or drifted) allele has at least one different base, by definition. It might have 2, 3, or 300.

    For many genes, most alleles do not alter the observed phenotype of the organism. At the other extreme, for some genes, a single-base mutation (point mutation) can have profound phenotypic effects. As far as inter-race differences, the most famous example is the EDAR 370V/A allele of the EDAR gene, which influences tooth morphology and hair type.

    Circling back to the starting point: “relatedness” can be thought of in absolute terms as “to what extent is your DNA the same as mine?” Slightly differently: “for how many genes do we share identical alleles? (And for those that are different, is it because of one DNA base, or many?)”

    This can be estimated in bulk terms with the old-fashioned “melting curve” experiments, as mentioned upthread. A more sensitive and precise approach is to start with “SNP chip” data and do some calculations. This is what 23andMe, Ancestry.com, etc. offer to do for $150 and a saliva sample. As you say, “fst” gets at this issue; Razib Khan has discussed this at GNXP many times, but I am not qualified to offer an explanation.

    Assume two (or five) breeding populations, reproductively isolated from one another for a significant number of generations. Over time, mutations will accumulate, e.g. novel alleles will arise. Most will be neutral, but some will be “adaptive” for that breeding population. Thanks to selective advantage or chance, novel alleles will spread through it, partly or completely (to “fixation”). Thus, a member of breeding population A will be more related (on average) to another A, than to a B, C, D, or E. (A tip of the hat to AnotherDad for correctly explaining these points and their implications in the iSteve comments.)

    For human continental races, this is complicated by the fact that there are very few alleles that are unique to any one race (the basis of “Lewontin’s Fallacy”). First, much of the allelic diversity of the ancestral founding populations were conferred to the populations that went on to become races (e.g. the ABO blood group alleles). Second, reproductive isolation has rarely been absolute. Most of the common alleles are shared by most or all continental race populations. It’s the frequencies of the alleles that vary widely. (Given geography, this makes sense: the change in frequencies from Hungary through Kazakhstan and Mongolia to China is clinal.)

    EDAR is the exception — one gene with a large phenotypic footprint. The genetics of height is more representative: “the first 40 DNA markers linked to the trait explained just 5% of” the observed variation in height. For most traits, the genetic/inherited contribution to similarity in traits (phenotypic attributes) is due to sharing the alleles of dozens to hundreds of genes.

    All this is to say: In absolute terms,
    * Members of continental race A are, on average, more related to other As than to Bs, Cs, Ds, or Es.
    * Immediate family members (e.g. half-siblings) are, on average, more related to each other than to random members of their continental race (to say nothing of B, C, D, or E).
    * When considering relatedness in absolute terms (i.e. allelic similarity), both continental race and family will contribute. The two will be more-or-less additive.

    The paper cited in the original post purports to focus on this last point. I think it fails, though I can’s say whether that’s due to poor explanations or to faulty math.

    In closing, it’s worth mentioning the obvious. Four-plus centuries have elapsed since the Portuguese massively improved navigation and ocean voyages. This was followed by railroads, steamships, and air travel. Each of these technologies has lowered the reproductive barriers separating continental races (and, similarly, separating subgroups). So the data gathered from modern populations is certain to be fuzzier, than would have been the case if analogous studies had been performed in 1450.

    • Replies: @res
  73. Gordo says:
    @AnotherDad

    One weird benny from the tranny thing–it’s obviously nuts

    .

    The point is to make you comply with something obviously deranged, it’s about their power and your self-abasement before that power.

    Look at the millions who degraded themselves willingly, grovelling before the criminal Floyd.

    They want to make us commit treason to the self, that is Satanic.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  74. @AnotherDad

    Nuclear accidents – very expensive. If a refinery blows up you re-build the refinery. But Chernobyl, Fukushima -you have a many-thousand year clean-up/maintenance cost.
    Nuclear waste – no solution. Waste includes both spent fuel rods and other waste at the bomb factories. This stuff stays toxic for hundreds of thousands of years. You can’t destroy it, neutralize it, or recycle it. If you re-use it in some form you just make more waste. The only option is to contain it, i.e. bury it deep in a mountain. But that is not a 100,000 year solution, which is the time frame involved.
    Show me the 100,000 year solution for the waste. Show me how much it will cost.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  75. @JohnnyWalker123

    Thanks, Johnny. It’s good to see this out in the open, but …

    This should have been the public discussion on immigration 20 years ago!. It’s way to late to just solve this thing, though there’s nothing wrong with the idea of “first, stop digging”.

    Immigration moratorium NOW!

    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
  76. @Charles Pewitt

    Hunter Wallace headline:

    “Trans” Is Bankrolled By Three Degenerate Jewish Billionaires

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2021/07/19/trans-is-bankrolled-by-three-degenerate-jewish-billionaires/

  77. 3g4me says:
    @ArthurinCali

    @62 ArthurinCali: There is no hobby, historical field, study, interest, institution, or any group of more than 5 people extant prior to 1960 that has not been converged. I don’t care if you collect stamps, read comic books, study ornithology, read history, enjoy varied cuisines, knit, write time travel novels, worship in a church, like to camp, or serve in the military. All of these (except for the military) are interests only of White people. Everything that enriches White lives and comprises Western civilization is a product of the White mind. It’s not merely your appearance they envy and hate, but your very consciousness, your soul. That unique genetic mixture of intelligence, ability, curiosity, and risk taking. Kill it, gut it, wear its skin suit, and demand respect.

    Numerica is not a country for White people. And POX world is determined to exterminate White people and erase their history. There is no fixing any of this. No argument, no reasoned debate against those who hate you and want your children dead.

    Yet most at Sailer persist in thinking there’s sure to be a cure, certain to be an endpoint to the madness. They continue to project the rational Western mind on the POX, who are essentially psychopathic two year olds, and their string-pullers and money men, who harbor a visceral hate for Western Christendom. And Sailer continues to quantify the qualitative and ponder the non-White mind and pose as Mr. Rational while urging his followers to get injected with experimental gene therapy in fear of the flu.

  78. @AnotherDad

    Dear Sir, I see lots of fat folx in my li’l world, but the obesity epidemic never fails to astonish me, and that particular fact was truly astonishing. That in 1990 Mississippians were thinner than today’s Colorodoans? I spent summer of 1978 in Colorado and the handsomeness of the people there impressed me.

    JMO.

    Although it is true that NYC is a tiny bit thinner than the rest of the USA.

    Some years back I went to Coney Island for the Mermaid Parade and noticed that no one was fat. Why did I notice that? Because obesity was already beginning to be a problem here and I don’t know why but that particular day no one out and about was fat.

    That night I looked at the front page of the NY Times online and there was something about Paula Deen being cancelled (cancel culture has been around for way longer than the current woke mania). They showed a picture of people lined up at her restaurant in Savannah.

    Could. Not. Believe. My. Peepers.

  79. @Rob Lee

    True, but it doesn’t explain why I loathe Chesa Boudin, and we’re from the same “tribe.”

  80. @Rob Lee

    Sorry – I didn’t mean to direct my previous comment to you. It was meant to be a general comment to Sailer’s post.

  81. Bill says:
    @AnotherDad

    One weird benny from the tranny thing–it’s obviously nuts.

    Like lots of things before it which are no longer “obviously nuts.”

  82. Bill says:
    @Whiskey

    On the one hand, it’s impossible to believe you are not a troll, given that everything you say is so utterly stupid and pig ignorant. On the other hand, it’s impossible to believe you are a troll, given that everything you say is so utterly stupid and pig ignorant.

    Five minutes ago, there was no such thing as “Germans” or “Italians.”

    For 10,000 years, at least, anti-racism has been scaling with a vengeance, sweeping all before it.

  83. Gordo says:
    @AnotherDad

    We’re probably only a few decades out from biological science being able to figure out the male homosexual failure mode and being able to detect–and hopefully stop–it.

    Hell no, leaves more poontang for us real men!

  84. J.Ross says:
    @Gordo

    Alex Jones (bear with me, he was quoting somebody else and I haven’t nailed down who yet) said all societies go through the same stages, and through it the priesthood seeks to gain more power over the believers, and the end of that is the priesthood attacking family bonds. It’s an inevitable power dynamic since a priesthood going decadent will assume they know everything and the loose item to be tightened is public adherence.

  85. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    If by “bug” you mean infection, that doesn’t make sense to me – you would think that we would have found the microbe by now even if we could not cure it. If I had to guess, it would be some kind of hormonal influence in utero which affects the brain. Whatever this is, it probably has some kind of survival value overall for the species so it has not died out even though gays were less likely to reproduce – the gay male offspring are counterbalanced by more fertile females.

    In the end, it’s female fertility that counts. Western society has, for cultural reasons, settled on monogamy but one rooster is sufficient to fertilize a flock of 10 or more hens so if you have 9 gay roosters born it doesn’t affect the viability of the species (and the actual # is a lot less than 9). As for lesbians, in the past no one cared what women actually preferred. A particularly stubborn one might be sent to the convent but most got married and had children, like it or not.

    Whatever it is, there have probably always been (a small number of) homosexuals in pro-sports but in the past it was necessary for them to hide their orientation. In an environment where men are dressing and showering together, etc., the possibility of being viewed as a potential sex object by teammates meant that there were actual reasons (and not just homophobia) why you wouldn’t want gays on your team. But realistically, they were always there and it’s probably just as well that they no longer have to hide.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    , @AnotherDad
  86. Trump has become something of a waste of anybody’s energy.

    Admittedly, he did achieve something in some fields. But his inactivity and failures had been epic. Instead of going full WN with Bannon & Miller, he just squealed; he should at least try to completely cut off all immigration; he wasted too much energy on Jerusalem & Israel with no effect; he should have tried to dismantle monopolist tech giants & the media; he failed his base; he didn’t act when the country was burning, while he could have tried to dismantle most Democrats’s power, even invoking some kind of martial law; at the end- he failed to pardon Assange & a few others.

    Had he won, he would have been better only at superficial matters.

    All talk, no substance.

    • Agree: Gordo
  87. res says:
    @Steve Sailer

    That is a good perspective. Thanks. Do you know the original source of Henry’s statement? I’d like to see it in context. Searching for it, the only thing I see is this very relevant 2014 post of yours
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/salter-and-harpending-on-rushtons-theory-of-ethnic-nepotism/
    which discusses the 2012/2013 paper I linked above.

    Salter, F., & Harpending, H. (2013). J. P. Rushton’s Theory of ethnic nepotism. Personality and Individual Differences, 55, 256–260.
    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/j-p-rushtons-theory-of-ethnic-nepotism.pdf

    I think this is a key quote from that paper.

    Ethnic kinship was estimated in 2002 by Harpending to average 15% between unrelated populations (Harpending, 2002). The example given in Section 3.2 below finds a kinship of 6%, equivalent to that with a great-grandchild, more than sufficient to meet Grafen’s criterion.

    This quote appears at the start of the 2002 paper.

    Since Fst among human populations on a world scale is reliably 10 to 15%, kinship between two individuals of the same human population is equivalent to kinship between grandparent and grandchild or between half siblings.

    In the comments to your 2014 post Jayman linked Greg Cochran’s take.
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/your-countrys-not-your-blood/

    I tend to agree with the kinship/ethnicity analogy, but I have an issue with the degree of relatedness being assigned to members of the continental races (I’m not sure about the kin selection idea. I suspect there is something there, but wonder about the effect size. It is hard to separate out from the surrounding cultural influences IMHO. Though a group maintaining the same culture probably mixes genetically as well.).

    Looking at the quote above we see Henry’s theoretical calculation was an average of 15%, but the empirical data was that the closest (though from a fairly small sample, but I think that subjects were much more local than the whole continent) was 6%.

    Another perspective on those numbers is the estimate for French-Japanese Fst of about 0.08-0.09 in Figure S11 from this paper.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4978449/

    The 2002 paper equates kinship to Fst which would lead me to expect an average within group kinship of 0.08-0.09. Instead, we see the closest kinship of about 0.06. Though the distribution of kinship between within group pairs (top panel of Fig 3 in 2013 paper) does appear to be fairly tight around a mean of about 0.05 so not that much different from the closest.

    Back to Henry’s grandchild observation. Remember we are talking about continental races. A single continent encompasses a great deal of variation. I think it would be easy to visually identify with decent confidence the grandchild of four Swedes vs. the grandchild of four Italians. And even easier to do so with a genetic comparison. The difficulty comes in because of the average vs. closest (again, see paper quote) issue. In a group of grandchildren of your peers there are likely to be some closer matches to background which are hard to discriminate among. I also wonder whether it would be easier to detect the correct grandchildren if you had pictures of them as adults.

    Also note that the French-Japanese result is more in line with great grandchildren as discussed in the 2013 paper.

    I find it hard to believe Henry did not understand all of what I said here. I wish he were around to respond to this since he knew far more about population genetics than I do.

  88. Dissident says:
    @Rob McX

    the primary purpose is […]to undermine and destroy white society (nobody cares that the Chinese and Africans aren’t buying into this) by erasing sexual identity and sexual roles, and thus removing the foundation on which any viable civilization depends. What could be better than encouraging impressionable white kids to sterilise themselves?

    Really? It is only white kids that are being indoctrinated with this ideology and encouraged to undergo these procedures? Just who is this unnamed entity that you assert has schemed-up this brilliantly cunning conspiracy “to undermine and destroy white society”? Surely, the conspirators’ own children must somehow remain at least mostly unaffected by said malevolent actors’ efforts, now? Or are they so hellbent on destroying white civilization, that they’re ready to take down their own in the process?What does the data tell us?

  89. res says:
    @ic1000

    Thanks for your thoughts. I thought this part was worth pulling out of the MORE to emphasize it.

    All this is to say: In absolute terms,
    * Members of continental race A are, on average, more related to other As than to Bs, Cs, Ds, or Es.
    * Immediate family members (e.g. half-siblings) are, on average, more related to each other than to random members of their continental race (to say nothing of B, C, D, or E).
    * When considering relatedness in absolute terms (i.e. allelic similarity), both continental race and family will contribute. The two will be more-or-less additive.

    The paper cited in the original post purports to focus on this last point. I think it fails, though I can’s say whether that’s due to poor explanations or to faulty math.

    Stepping back for a moment, what bothers me about the analysis is how in Figures 1-3 of the 2013 paper the pairwise kinship values do not appear to be invariant with respect to the overall population.

    If I read the kinship definition in that paper correctly it is computed pairwise thus should not depend on the overall population (i.e. be invariant across the graphics).

    In the Kinship in a Subdivided Population section the 2002 paper gives a result of an individual having a kinship with someone from the same population of Fst and a kinship with someone from the other population of -Fst which is what we see in Figure 3 (roughly).

    But why do Figures 1 and 2 show the mass of pairwise within group kinships being around negative 0.02 (how does that negative work with the definition they gave, BTW?) and the closest being around 0.01?

    I think this quote from the 2002 paper provides the key. Read it carefully.

    For example FST among human populations is about 1/8, and this is just the coefficient of kinship in a single population between grandparent and grandchild, uncle and nephew, or half-sibs. In a diverse world, members of the same population are related to each other to the same degree that grandparents and grandchildren are related to each other in a single population.

    That actually makes sense to me and seems reasonable (and is also rather eye opening, note the importance of the specific population pairs though). It is very different from this though IMO.

    For example, members of the same continental race are about as related (r = 0.18–0.26) as half-siblings (r = 0.25).

    To put it another way. Consider where a half sibling with a kinship of 0.125 would fall on Figure 1 or 2. MUCH more similar than the closest observed kinship (other than self). Those closest observed kinships appear more in the second cousin range (3.125%/2, 5th degree relative).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguinity
    Which actually seems reasonable if they tried to avoid relatives in the HGDP sampling.

    One last point to emphasize. The 2002 quote above is dependent on the Fst of the reference populations. So for the French-Japanese case it is more like a great grandchild (3rd degree relative) than a grandchild (or half sib, 2nd degree relative).

    P.S. If anyone here understands the kinship coefficient well please speak up. The 2002 paper is not intuitive to me, and the definition in the 2013 paper seems to be an oversimplification.

  90. • Replies: @Corvinus
  91. Pls consider and share.

    This is not good. Some are terrified, but way too many think it’s a good thing and are looking for more.

    It isn’t.

  92. [MORE]

  93. Corvinus says:
    @Desiderius

    Just like the Alt Right has no problem demonizing their enemy as being “fascist” or “anti-white” or “race traitor” that need to be exterminated. Cernovich is merely playing the blame game and ignoring the rat’s nest in his own house.

    He knows what he is doing…deflection.

    • Troll: Desiderius
    • Replies: @anon
    , @AnotherDad
  94. Dissident says:
    @Jack D

    [AnotherDad wrote] We’re probably only a few decades out from biological science being able to figure out the male homosexual failure mode and being able to detect–and hopefully stop–it.

    Maybe Cochran’s right and it’s as simple as a bug?

    If by “bug” you mean infection, that doesn’t make sense to me – you would think that we would have found the microbe by now even if we could not cure it. If I had to guess, it would be some kind of hormonal influence in utero which affects the brain.

    So both you and AnotherDad simply take it as a given that homosexuality is categorically both innate as well as immutable? Why? Isn’t that little, if at all, more than a mere doctrinaire assertion? Where is the evidence? Even if there would be compelling evidence for a genetic predisposition, what about the possibility that an individual’s experiences during his critical formative years may influence the direction that his sexuality ultimately takes? To summarily dismiss that possibility? Wouldn’t that be counter to logic, intuition, and at least considerable, if not overwhelming, anecdotal evidence?

    • Replies: @anon
  95. anon[347] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Lol @ our local paid deflector. Pretty weak sauce, Coronavinus.

    Oh, and by the way: Tu quoque is a fallacy. Make a note of that.

  96. @Reg Cæsar

    Likewise, the US offices of the Catholic Church belong in Baltimore.

    What do you have against Catholics?

    • LOL: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  97. @Jack D

    If by “bug” you mean infection, that doesn’t make sense to me – you would think that we would have found the microbe by now even if we could not cure it. If I had to guess, it would be some kind of hormonal influence in utero which affects the brain.

    This is my take as well.

    Some sort of–perhaps maternal hormone interruption–malfunction during the part of brain masculization process. Homosexual brains seem to end up being male in some senses but not others.

    However, my guess is there’s no “survival value” thing going on. Male homosexuality is just highly negative. Perhaps it’s just a bug in a complicated process–making the default female brain male … inside a woman chock full of female hormones. (Lots of bugs in the machine–e.g. cancer.) But it could be that some gene that makes women prone to this also makes them produce very fertile daughters–or something. I’m skeptical.

    Cochran’s point that hunter-gathers think you’re pulling their leg, does suggest “bug”. Perhaps the bug is common and the infection is of the mom? Just usually doesn’t generate the whole homosexual catastrophe.

    It will be good to be rid of it down the road. Our problem now is … getting there! Fighting off the insanity and simply surviving.

    • Replies: @anon
  98. @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    He trained others to spout the same talking points, as in most anthropologists, as did Gould.

  99. Once a prison colony…

  100. @rebel yell

    Chernobyl is a–commie sloppy–outlier.

    Fukushima was stupid. (I would have expected the Japanese to have done better as the tsunami is a “known thing” there.) But it was/is only “expensive” because the Japanese decided to make it so. It’s actually killed … one person! And will have basically no–trivial, background noise–health effects. In the context of the tsunami destruction it would be just noise, excepting Japanese decisions to shutdown their nukes and make a big deal out of it.

    That said, i’m all for building passively safe designs.

    The “nuclear waste” thing is a complete joke. A complete non problem.

    [MORE]

    — Not much material.
    Nuclear reactions have such higher energy density, that the total volume of material we’re talking about isn’t much. Dwarfed in volume by the the amount of regular old toxic chemicals the chemical industry is producing every year.

    — Has nothing to do with the costs of nuclear.
    Cost of nuclear power are basically all upfront capital costs. Some end-of-cycle cleanup costs are small potatoes.

    — Long or strong–pick one.
    People freak out over “radioactive for hundreds of thousands of years”. What that actually means is …. “not very radioactive”.

    It’s pretty simple: if it’s highly radioactive … then it’s over with more quickly (short half-life); if it’s got a long half-life … it’s not very radioactive.

    Nuclear fission fuel cycles basically takes some very long lived uranium isotopes and converts them into much much radioactive but shorter lived elements. The result is materials that are much much more reactive in the short term–a hundred years or so–but then … gone. Nuclear energy sort of speeds up the decay of radioactive material on earth.

    The big scary is “plutonium”. Your “100000 years” (Pu239 has a 20,000 year half-life.) Anti-nukers have tried to pitch it as “the most toxic thing on earth” or something. Well if you turn it into a fine dust and get people to breath it in–then … maybe. But sitting around? Pu239–what we’re talking about from reactors–is an alpha particle (helium nucleus) emitter. You can stop it’s radiation by using the high tech shielding known as “a sheet of paper”. (The dead layer of your skin stops it.) If you give it to me as a metal/alloy i can store it for you in my garage.

    In any case it’s ridiculous to deal with Pu as “waste”. It’s not waste, it’s high value fuel. (And i’m 100% for cycles that do a good burn on Pu in situ and don’t require reprocessing.)

    — Easy natural disposal.
    Finally, whatever waste problem you do have is straightforward to deal with–if you don’t choose to make a mountain of a mole hill.

    Vitrification. Mix it into a glass. Take the glass logs out to sea and drop them into any one of the earth’s subduction zones. They’ll be subducted down into the earth and melted in with all the other radioactive elements slowly decaying away down there. In a few hundred million years they may be thrust upward as part of some new mountains, no more radioactive than anything else.

    ~~

    The idea that nuclear power is some uniquely problematic technology is nonsense.

    The biggest issue with it the potential weapons issue. Nations can use nuclear power technology/expertise to help work toward nuclear weapons programs. But, of course, they can do that anyway. And nuclear power agreements can/do involve requiring being part of the non-proliferation regime.

    Heck, virologists just screwing around, managed to create a not-very-lethal virus that killed more people in a year then all the nuclear stuff–weapons, power and other–have killed in 80 years.

    Compared to bio-hazards–much less to the big bio-hazard of immigration–nukes are a big nothing.

    If anyone honest believes fossil fuel generated global warming is an existential threat to humanity, but opposed nuclear power–open fraud.

    • Thanks: Captain Tripps, Gabe Ruth
  101. @Corvinus

    Your “both sides” spin is just nonsense–as per usual.

    But let’s say it’s true. Then you agree with me that we should just separate? Keep the warring sides apart?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  102. Anon[317] • Disclaimer says:

    Some people prefer a cosmopolitan society, some prefer a provincial society. There are pros and cons for both types of society, but cosmopolitans tend to have power and deny the legitimacy of provincials.

    Much of the conflict and rancour we find in modern life could be resolved in we found a better way to accommodate the preferences of both cosmopolitans and provincials. One solution perhaps would be to identify particular World Cities which are open to cosmopolitans of any nationality, and then leave other areas reserved for the provincials of a particular nationality.

    For example, London has for many centuries been a World City. We can imagine a system where London is open to anyone who wants to live there (while making it clear that foreign nationals have no recourse to public funds) but only English nationals are entitled to live and work in other parts of England. So London would be super-cosmopolitan, and the rest of England would remain as provincial as it could be. We could imagine something similar for say New York/LA/Miami in the US, Hong Kong and Shanghai in China, etc etc.

    The point is – cosmopolitans of any nationality would have access to World Cities where they can live a cosmopolitan life, and provincials of each nationality would have their own countries outside of these World Cities where they can live a provincial life. There would be a lot of details to work out, but in principle it would seem to be a solution that could satisfy the preferences of both types of people. Cosmopolitans would not have to worry that provincials are trying to stifle them, and provincials would not have to worry that cosmopolitans are trying to crush them.

  103. @kaganovitch

    What do you have against Catholics?

    Why would you [ahem] stoop to such a low blow? Are you just being crabby?

    Maybe I like the flag!

  104. Corvinus says:
    @AnotherDad

    “Your “both sides” spin is just nonsense–as per usual.”

    More like showing reality.

    But let’s say it’s true. Then you agree with me that we should just separate? Keep the warring sides “apart”?”

    Feel free to self-separate. Here is the perfect place.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_City,_Illinois

    Listen, until you actually have a detailed plan that the majority of Americans can agree upon to secede, you are merely fantasizing.

  105. anon[389] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    The degree to which you take your simplistic, absolutist, reductionist Darwinian materialism is amusing.

  106. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dissident

    So both you and AnotherDad simply take it as a given that homosexuality is categorically both innate as well as immutable?

    They’re like the mirror-image of a blank-slate absolutist.

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