Equilibrium is the future. It is the goal of those who control your media, your academia, your finances, your legislatures, your foreign policy, your foreign trade…

Many open borders advocates openly argue that this equilibrium is desirable because the aggregate well-being of all human units will be increased when third-world units have finally been thoroughly mixed with first-world models. There are so many more third-worlders than first-worlders, you see, that the aggregate improvement in conditions, when all populations are mixed, will more than compensate for the mass impoverishment of westerners. Mass immigration is a moral imperative because utilitarianism.

The people who develop these insane arguments are elites who imagine that their privileged positions will prevent their personal immiseration. (This seems generally to be the case with people who make utilitarian arguments that demand your sacrifice to improve the lot of some other people to increase the Totality of Human Happiness.) Because they are also first-order imbeciles, they cannot grasp that immigration on the scale they dream of will destroy the prevailing political and economic order of the west. It will plow elites like them well under. If we aren’t able to get rid of these people and establish a new political order, we have to ask how bad things will need to get before enough elites realize they are imperiling their own positions, and whether they will still have the chance to do anything about it when they finally wake up.

OT – Great moments in female science:

Nobel Prize-winning scientist Frances Arnold retracts paper

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50989423

Equilibrium would be a good title for a frightening Young Adult dystopian novel.

Equilibrium would be a good title for a frightening Young Adult dystopian novel.

Have you not heard of this lovely piece of 2000s-era trash? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equilibrium_(film)

The Sierra Club used to support “population stabilization.”

Then major donor David Gelbaum threatened to withhold funding if the organization maintained any opposition to mass immigration.

David Gelbaum, a businessman who had donated at least $200 million to the Sierra Club, warned that his donations were contingent upon how the club handled the issue of immigration.

"If they ever came out anti-immigration, they would never get a dollar from me," Gelbaum said.

— Center for Immigration Studies (@CIS_org) August 15, 2018

David Gelbaum's $100 mill donation to Sierra Club bought off the club on mass migration -such a boon to the environment! See Adios, America!

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 26, 2017

That movie is not trash. Equilibrium is a WN classic.

By the way, here’s an interesting news story.

Before he invaded Iraq, George W. Bush didn’t know the difference between Sunnis and Shiites.

https://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Ambassador_claims_shortly_before_invasion_Bush_0804.html

Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam–to which the President allegedly responded, “I thought the Iraqis were Muslims!”

It seems that Mr. Bush also didn’t understand the concept of religious sects either.

While Bush may represent an outlier, you really have to wonder if our leaders really understand what they’re getting into with Iran. I wonder how many of our leaders understand the differences Sunnis and Shiites, or the differences between Persians and Arabs.

The Anywheres (David Goodhart The Road to Somewhere) are highly mobile. The US is not that important for them as it is for the Somewheres. Plus – you know, at times you have to compromise – or even make sacrifices. If that leads to – local – unpleasantries, the Anywheres have already left, so their problem is solved.

“Don’t be that negative – this attitude might affect your overall well-being!” – That’s their advice for hardheaded people like us – see, Eugyppius?

The first “Earth Day” in 1970 was festooned with ZPG leaflets.

ZPG = Zero Polulation Growth. Keep growth modest and sane.

Without taking steps to keep population stable, evironmentalism (hell, even simple conservationism) is wasted effort. But the Sierra Club and tardbars like Greta see no problem here.

Boomer girls in the 70s-8os did see the issue (having stood in long lines for simple stuff during their childhoods) and were, indeed, implementing ZPG pretty much by default and on their own, The tardbar Pat Buchanan thinks this was all “lifestyle abortion” but he’s reached the point where he lies about everything now, even though he’s not even a politician, only a failed politician.

Benjamen Zion Wattenberg produced a book entitled The Birth Dearth in which he lamented the long lines of children native-born American women of that period were not producing. A slight uptick in births followed, not likely via Ben Zion’s efforts.

But BZ’s real agenda sprang forth from his labors: He whole point was that “all economists agree” that economic growth requires SOME population growth. So suddenly New Arrivals doubled and then quadrupled all during the period Ron Reagan offered his “one time” (eternal) amnesty.

Ben Zion rots in hell now, I’m happy to report, but for his monument, check the typhus statistics in California and the fleets of buses merrily pouring Congolese to Maine, Somalians to North Carolina, and so on and on and…

In another environmental news, who knew that the British (!) Army has counter-poaching teams in South Africa. Doesn’t South Africa still have an army?
https://focusingonwildlife.com/news/british-troops-move-black-rhinos-to-malawi/

British troops have helped to move a group of critically endangered black rhinos from South Africa to Malawi to protect them against poaching.

Soldiers from the 2nd Battalion Royal Gurkha Rifles moved 17 of the animals, which are hunted for their horns, in the hope they can be better protected.

They were transported by air and road from KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa to Liwonde National Park in Malawi.

The troops then spent three months training rangers to keep them safe.

Major Jez England, the officer commanding the British Army counter-poaching team in Liwonde, said the operation had been “hugely successful”.

“Not only do we share skills with the rangers, improving their efficiency and ability to patrol larger areas, but it also provides a unique opportunity for our soldiers to train in a challenging environment”, he said.

Equilibrium is for the little people who everywhere are being driven off the land and herded into urban farms where they are easily controlled and manipulated. There’s a great Wolfe essay on the phenomenon in “Mid-Atlantic Man”.

Pan out a bit from the squalid overpopulated “diverse” urban hellholes being created and my guess is that population densities have fallen in developed countries over the past few decades and will fall further in the coming years.

And the big wide open spaces will be the fiefdoms of a very undiverse group.

I remember that vividly.

In 2020, the US can no longer distinguish between “guys we formerly bought or supported who we now call ‘terrorists’ and who thus can be drone-struck at will without too much consequences” and “generals of a foreign country with which we are not nominally at war who we now call ‘terrorists’ and who thus we have convinced ourselves can drone-struck at will without too much consequences”.

The close-off into a self-generated virtual reality feed by media irreality, twitter shrieks and a belief that consequences are backtrackable like in a video game is now complete.

Scott Ritter: The US unwittingly helped create Qassem Soleimani. Then they killed him.

On-Topic: Stand on Zanzibar is a book written in 1968.

Brunner remarked that the growing world population now required a larger island; the 3.5 billion people living in 1968 could stand together on the Isle of Man (area 572 square kilometres (221 sq mi)), while the 7 billion people who he (correctly) projected would be alive in 2010 would need to stand on Zanzibar (area 1,554 square kilometres (600 sq mi)). Throughout the book, the image of the entire human race standing shoulder-to-shoulder on a small island is a metaphor for a crowded world.

Off-Topic: This one is pretty funny:

Earth Temperature Timeline

Time for serious geoengineering! As in Asimov’s “Foundation”, a challenge appears!

You can’t copyright a title. Titles are often reused, i.e., “Fire and Ice,” “The Gathering Storm,” “Love at Last.”

As long as the elites only mess up one or two someplaces, they might escape to some other places. But if they achieve true equilibrium, everyplace will be like Bangladesh (IQ = 82, also the global average). Our elites have tried hard to free themselves from the somewheres that support them, but they are actually far more rooted than many of them seem to think, and they need first-world financial systems and legal order to maintain their position, all of which will vanish or change beyond recognition with equilibrium.

I’ve yet to see an xkcd comic that wasn’t achingly stupid. Sure enough, that link didn’t disappoint. xkcd is like the Vox of comic strips.

Buzz Mohawk:

Unchecked immigration will overpopulate America and destroy whatever reasons people come here. That will be the point of equilibrium. (…)

I have no reason to believe it will stop. Equilibrium is the future. It is the goal of those who control your media, your academia, your finances, your legislatures, your foreign policy, your foreign trade…

This guy prefers to call it convergence (#96) :

Convergence in income, political institutions, and safety between origin and destination countries is basically the whole ballgame when it comes to reducing illegal migration. A non-moronic Central American policy would focus on that.

— Will Wilkinson (@willwilkinson) April 9, 2019

Bush was just a puppet, a front man. It wasn’t his job to understand anything.

Only when equilibrium is achieved will people stop coming here…

This is a really good point, and I think the best way to make it is by posing it as a question: So, when will they stop coming? The answer is that the only thing that will stop them from coming is when the country changes so much that they have nothing to gain by coming. When the poorest and most miserable resident of Africa or India or China looks at the United States and thinks “you know, I have nothing to gain by going there, I wouldn’t be any better off over there than I am right here.”

So am I missing something? Is there any other way it could end? Anything else that could stop the flow? And are there really people who think it would be a good idea to trade the country we’ve got for a country like that?

I made the mistake of reading some his tweets. They are an 8th grade caliber at best. “Trump is controlled by Putin”…. blah blah, Embarrassing. The Ivy league or whoever is educating our more and more juvenile elites, are not sending their best.

It seems that Mr. Bush also didn’t understand the concept of religious sects either.

Well, our education – journalism – legal edifice has downplayed religion as a framework for considering public policy questions for some time.

Europe fought huge wars over the Catholic – Protestant thing, but few casual observers could explain the differences today.

Garrett Hardin was a celebrity intellectual in the 1960s and ’70s. He had come to prominence with “The Tragedy of the Commons” in Science in 1968. He wrote well and had a debunking style that went well with the period. He had always thought there were too many people and toward the end of his life became an advocate for severe restriction of immigration. Coincidentally or not, he pretty much dropped off the intellectual/media map at that point.

OT:

Yet ANOTHER fake hate crime…

Jewish man faked “anti-Semitic” stabbing:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7849811/Jewish-man-26-admits-LIED-stabbed-anti-Semitic-attack.html

Equilibria : The pocalypse.

Ie dick around in the warm weather with no enemy soldiers present in meaningful fil ways.

Hey, BuzzMohawk…

“When I was in school, the first time I learned the population of MY country it was Two Hundred Million. 200,000,000. I have lived less than half-a-century since that time, and now, as best I can tell, the officially counted population of MY homeland is around Three-Hundred-Thirty-Million. 330,000,000.”

OUR nation.

“Most of those new people are very different from me and my ancestors.”

WASPs felt the same way when Southern and Eastern Europeans came a-knockin’ in the late 1800’s/early 1900’s.

“Their people did not make this country, yet they come here because it is better than where they come from. Logic makes this obvious.”

Did Poles, Italians, and Serbs from the perspective of WASPs?

“However: We do not even need a political, social or cultural argument against this massive INVASION.”

Except it’s not an invasion. You are being illogical.

“Unchecked immigration will overpopulate America and destroy whatever reasons people come here.”

Now I can get on board here.

“It is the goal of those who control your media, your academia, your finances, your legislatures, your foreign policy, your foreign trade…”

No, it is not the goal of “elites” and Jews and their toadies.

Equilibrium would be a good title for a frightening Young Adult dystopian novel.

Equilibrium doesn’t rhyme with many words so you couldn’t do so many sequels, such as Divergent, Insurgent, Detergent etc.

Incidentally, what they call “Young Adult” in the literary market is really teenagers, 12-18, right?

It’s a bit confusing, because “young adult” would really be from 18-26 but by that age people are reading “full adult” books, if they are reading at all.

So why do they call teen readers “Young Adults”, but black criminals or illegal aliens between 13-18 are always “children”?

If one of a one hundred migrants in Ireland rapes and murders an Irish girl, the happiness of those one hundred migrants still far outweighs the unhappiness of the Irish girl’s family.

Gross Global Human Happiness. Nothing else matters.

As I point out here, Spain has a literally open border with France but gets almost no French migrants. Because France is a bit richer. But Spain gets tons of ILLEGAL migration from nearby Morocco, despite zealous policing efforts, because it’s much poorer.

So, if the Federal Government slowed down on pouring funds into California, Mexicans would slow down pouring into California?

What a novel concept! This is like that Steve Martin skit on Saturday Night Live where he was telling the couple if they don’t have money they shouldn’t buy things with credit cards.

When I was in school, the first time I learned the population of MY country it was Two Hundred Million. 200,000,000. I have lived less than half-a-century since that time, and now, as best I can tell, the officially counted population of MY homeland is around Three-Hundred-Thirty-Million. 330,000,000.

When the Constitution was written the county had a population of three million.

Equilibrium is not the goal, although it will be the result. The goal is “get while the getting’s good & get out”. Our elites only care about themselves in their own lifetimes.

‘… Then major donor David Gelbaum threatened to withhold funding if the organization maintained any opposition to mass immigration.’

…and it takes a little work to ferret out the fact, but yes, Gelbaum is Jewish.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-oct-27-me-donor27-story.html

I genuinely wish this sort of thing wasn’t quite so consistent.

‘When the Constitution was written the county had a population of three million.’

…and that’s why we were able to have a definition of ‘freedom’ verging on anarchy for the first hundred years or so of our existence.

The fewer people the more liberty is possible. The more people, the less liberty. It’s not hard.

This commenter has had the “privilege” of living in the America of his ancestors. An open land. He still lives on open land by choice.

We get it. You’re one of the lucky ones. As someone who has never had the privilege of living on open land, and never well, I’m not sure why you expect me to care about your private game preserve. But thank you for reminding us that the environmentalist movement originated as a club of limousine liberals trying to protect their picture-postcard beach property and gobbled-up western ranch land.

But in any case, you don’t need to worry about demographics. I don’t know where you expect all these extra people to come from. There is no developed country in the world that has an above-replacement fertility rate. There is not a single ethnic or demographic group in America that has an above-replacement fertility rate, except the most recently arrived Somalians and the Mormons—not blacks, not Latinos, nobody. People come to America not to reproduce but to sterilize themselves. The numbers from Africa (Steve’s most important graph) are a complete farce. The world is already dying. The illusion of overcrowding comes from the fact that the mobile population continues to crystalize into the most populated cities, exacerbating their traffic and congestion; but this is hardly destroying the open land, in fact it is liberating it. In the most crowded countries, where the process has been in effect the longest (Japan, for example), the provincial towns and villages are denuded of people, the last survivors give up and move to the suburbs of Tokyo, and the land reverts to wilderness. Deer and wild boar roam the empty streets now overgrown with drapes of kudzu. This will happen in America as well.

The people who develop these insane arguments are elites who imagine that their privileged positions will prevent their personal immiseration.

It staggers the mind to think what they’ve pulled off so far right before our eyes. If they decide they don’t like the results of their campaign they’ll make the correction; immiserate a new population. Elites aren’t committed to an ideal, but to their desire. Arguments are devised to support objectives.

Their intellectual and social heirs will make the correction; point to this current group and say, “that was them, this is me,” and without irony.

It’s ego and selfishness all the way down.

As long as the elites only mess up one or two someplaces, they might escape to some other places.

I suspect many have a fantasy that they’re going to flee to New Zealand and hunker in their bunkers.

they need first-world financial systems and legal order to maintain their position, all of which will vanish or change beyond recognition with equilibrium.

Clearly, some people didn’t think some things through.

This one is pretty funny

Funny, but utterly inaccurate. The “hockey stick” has been completely discredited.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/

20,000 years:

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/data4-climate-changes-lg.gif?resize=578%2C396

In Arnold’s defense, the article says the fraud was attributable to its “first author,” who is Inha Cho.

See: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/01/02/science.aba6100.full for author list.

Cho is a grad student in Arnold’s Caltech lab. See her linkedin at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inha-cho-56017364/en

Arnold’s failure appears to be in trusting her researchers enough to attach her name and prestige to their work without examination.

Papers published in the journal “Science” are peer reviewed so a double failure. See:
https://www.sciencemag.org/authors/science-information-authors

Nice theory, wrong Domains.

Good way to get Mother Nature to start looking for a new man.

Steve Sailer says:

Equilibrium would be a good title for a frightening Young Adult dystopian novel.

I say:

Upset The Applecart is a better book title than Equilibrium for young White Core Americans.

Buzz Mohawk says:

I have no reason to believe it will stop. Equilibrium is the future. It is the goal of those who control your media, your academia, your finances, your legislatures, your foreign policy, your foreign trade…

I say:

Mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration will be halted.

Upsetting the ruling class applecart is the future.

The JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire controls the media and academia and financialization and globalization and multiculturalism and politics and foreign policy and trade policy.

Young White Core Americans will be the ones to defeat and dislodge the treasonously evil JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire.

The JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire is in an extremely weak position and they are using monetary extremism — liquidity injections, balance sheet expansions, quantitative easing, low interest rates, dollar swaps…etc — to stay in power.

The JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire is using a trillion dollar a year federal government deficit to buy off certain voter cohorts — government workers, greedy White geezers, Blacks, Jews, Mestizos, Asians, upper middle class Whites, White underclass undertow types and the like — but that ain’t going to last much longer before something pops.

My idea is that SOVEREIGN DEBT SECESSIONISM — or government debt secessionism — will be used by young White Core Americans to implode the crooked and fraudulent global financial system and that will give young White Core Americans the chance to financially liquidate all members of the JEW/WASP ruling class and then forcibly deport them to sub-Saharan Africa permanently.

In 1978 — the very same year some team beat the Los Angeles Dodgers in the World Series — the population of the USA was 220 million. Young White Core Americans must make 220 by 2040 a well advertised and well known environmental goal for the population of the USA. The USA must go from the current 330 million to 220 million by the year 2040.

My connection of monetary policy and immigration policy still stands as one of the most sophisticated political conceptual works of the last 60 years. Simple it is. The JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire used monetary policy to buy off the greedy White slobs born before 1965 so those greedy White slobs would keep their mouths shut about the nation-wrecking effects of mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration. The multiple series of asset bubbles inflated by the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank bought off the greedy White slobs born before 1965 and that is why the nation-wrecking mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration wasn’t stopped sooner.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Even to you greedy White slobs born before 1965!

The advocates remind me of that California Raisins villain in the Marvel film-works– “PERFECTLY BALANCED, AS ALL THINGS SHOULD BE”

Also kinda reminds me of these Trekkies I used to know..

I don’t think arguing that immigration will bring more pollution or overpopulation in the US will be effective.

Most progressives live in cities, and so naturally prefer higher population density centers. I have seen many progressive friends argue that urban centers are better for the world, because solutions like mass transit, using bikes for transit, or just plain walking everywhere are possible there. Concentrating people shifts your thinking from private ownership and independence to shared ownership and interdependence.

For pollution, they’ll simply say that population growth needs to be paired with stronger green initiatives, as they already prescribe.

They’re not really wrong on either of these points.

I have said it many times; progressivism isn’t wrong if you believe that people are fundamentally interchangeable. As long as that assumption is held, I can make reasonable arguments for almost all progressive positions.

“Equilibrium is for the little people who everywhere are being driven off the land and herded into urban farms where they are easily controlled and manipulated. ”

The corrupting influence of our fraud-based society is everywhere in science and engineering these days and it it affects males and females alike.

When my MIL was born circa 1920, the population of the US was 100 million. So boomers like Buzz and me spoiled it for her by doubling it to the 200 million that she remembers. And the Civil War vets that she remembers visiting her elementary school must have felt that 100 million person America was spoiled because they remembered the 30 million person America of 1860. And so on. The natural temptation is to think that the America of your youth is the “right” one and that the current America is ruined. This may be true but it requires more analysis than just picking an arbitrary date (the time when you were in elementary school) and declaring that to be the Golden Age.

By the way, Philadelphia (and many other Northeastern cities) had more people in 1950 than it has today as a result of the exodus to the suburbs and to the Sunbelt. Buffalo went from 580,000 to 250,000. I see photos of street scenes in downtown Philly from the 1930s where the sidewalks are packed in the way that they still are in midtown Manhattan. The sidewalks are never packed like this in Philly today. The US could increase its population by many millions without ever cutting down another tree merely by repopulating the big Northern cities to their former population. I’m not saying that this is desirable but it’s possible to increase the population without having to pave over farmland. We’ve been very lucky in that the price of energy has not continued to go up and up as some people thought it would – if this had happened, at some point the outer ring suburbs would have lost their viability and reverted to farmland even in the face of higher population. How the population is distributed (urban vs suburban vs rural) is as important as the total.

Disagree. The population density per se is not a problem. Strain on natural resources (e.g. water) might be a problem. What is a problem is that natural increase accounts for very little of this.

That’s why they try to get New Zealand citizenship and/or buy whole regions in Peru or Bolivia etc.
They move so graciously over the face of the earth, that they have nothing but a few regrets for such – bad faith – – –worrierers -like – – – us here.

As always – time will tell. I myself am a bit hesitant with apocalyptic prophecies, because, you know, those too are – – – about the future and thus – – – a necessarily a bit on the speculative side…

Brenda Walker of VDARE has been all over this David Gelbaum business whereby now deceased Gelbaum gave the Sierra Club a hundred million dollars or more on condition that the Sierra Club clam the Hell up about the negative effects on the environment from mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

I even got in on the act — following respectfully in the great footsteps of the magnificent Brenda Walker — and wrote a bit about financializer and globalizer David Gelbaum bribing the Sierra Club to stay silent on the disastrous effects of over-immigration on the environment.

I wrote this in 2013:

NH Sen. Jeanne Shaheen and the Sierra Club have combined in an environment-destroying effort to flood the U.S. with 30 million immigrants over the next 10 years.

Shaheen was tireless in her toil to pass the OBAMA/SHAHEEN/RUBIO illegal alien amnesty–mass immigration surge bill(S.744). On April 25, 2013, the Sierra Club added their support for the 30 million immigrant mass movement of foreigners into the U.S. The bill passed the U.S. Senate in June.

Why would Shaheen and the Sierra Club favor the importation of 30 million foreigners into the U.S. over the next decade? Greed, greed, and more filthy greed is the answer.

Shaheen is a bought and paid for puppet of billionaires. The billionaires want to destroy nation-states. Mass immigration is the weapon billionaire-controlled stooges like Shaheen are using to crush the historic and traditional U.S.

The Sierra Club is now an evil front group for billionaires who use fake environmental propaganda as a smokescreen to cover their sovereignty-sapping agenda of transnationalism. The plutocrats want to pulverize the very concept of the nation-state by pushing globalizer themes of “global warming” and allusions to a “global bio-sphere.”

The corruption of the Sierra Club was complete about 20 years ago. David Gelbaum, a wealthy Wall Street financier, made it clear that environmentally-friendly immigration restrictionism was to be suppressed at the Sierra Club. Carl Pope, Sierra Club executive director at the time, cravenly capitulated to the command.

Kenneth R. Weiss, in an October 27 2004 LA Times article “The Man Behind the Land,” quotes Gelbaum as saying, “I did tell Carl Pope in 1994 or 1995 that if they(Sierra Club) ever came out anti-immigration, they would never get a dollar from me.”

Gelbaum purchased the open-border immigration policy position of the Sierra Club for about $100 million.

Shaheen is a rancid fraud in her pretensions to environmental concern. The Sierra Club, at management level, is a corrupted pack of swindlers who sold out honest, common-sense environmentalism for a massive money infusion.

Tweets from 2014:

SHAHEEN & SIERRA CLUB PUSH HABITAT-WRECKING IMMIGRATION BILL http://t.co/3S7kUZkiIg Obama & Shaheen Push Mass #Immigration #NHpolitics

— Charles Pewitt (@CharlesPewitt) July 22, 2014

@NHSierraClub @JeanneShaheen Rancid frauds at Sierra Club took Gelbaum's cash, and then went mum on bad effects of #Immigration. #nhpolitics

— Charles Pewitt (@CharlesPewitt) September 17, 2014

OT – Race Does Not Exist Part 563, you may have covered this and I missed it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/business/china-xinjiang-uighur-dna-thermo-fisher.html

In 2014, ministry researchers published a paper describing a way for scientists to tell one ethnic group from another. It cited, as an example, the ability to distinguish Uighurs from Indians. The authors said they used 40 DNA samples taken from Uighurs in China and samples from other ethnic groups from Dr. Kidd’s Yale lab.

In patent applications filed in China in 2013 and 2017, ministry researchers described ways to sort people by ethnicity by screening their genetic makeup. They took genetic material from Uighurs and compared it with DNA from other ethnic groups. In the 2017 filing, researchers explained that their system would help in “inferring the geographical origin from the DNA of suspects at crime scenes.”

For outside comparisons, they used DNA samples provided by Dr. Kidd’s lab, the 2017 filing said. They also used samples from the 1000 Genomes Project, a public catalog of genes from around the world.

Paul Flicek, member of the steering committee of the 1000 Genomes Project, said that its data was unrestricted and that “there is no obvious problem” if it was being used as a way to determine where a DNA sample came from.

The data flow also went the other way.

Chinese government researchers contributed the data of 2,143 Uighurs to the Allele Frequency Database, an online search platform run by Dr. Kidd that was partly funded by the United States Department of Justice until last year. The database, known as Alfred, contains DNA data from more than 700 populations around the world.

This sharing of data could violate scientific norms of informed consent because it is not clear whether the Uighurs volunteered their DNA samples to the Chinese authorities, said Arthur Caplan, the founding head of the division of medical ethics at New York University’s School of Medicine. He said that “no one should be in a database without express consent.”

Pentagon is apparently warning staff about DNA companies.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenmatloff/2019/12/27/why-the-pentagon-is-warning-us-military-not-to-use-recreational-genetic-test-kits/#77a90b313d56

I have said it many times; progressivism isn’t wrong if you believe that people are fundamentally interchangeable. As long as that assumption is held, I can make reasonable arguments for almost all progressive positions.

I think you also need to add something like: people can become “ideal” beings (another way of saying it is people are perfectible, so perhaps modify your statement to “people are fundamentally interchangeable and perfectible”?). This is an important point of Thomas Sowell’s A Conflict of Visions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Conflict_of_Visions#The_competing_visions

Sowell lays out these concepts in his A Conflict of Visions, and The Vision of the Anointed. These two visions encompass a range of ideas and theories.

The unconstrained vision
Sowell argues that the unconstrained vision relies heavily on the belief that human nature is essentially good. Those with an unconstrained vision distrust decentralized processes and are impatient with large institutions and systemic processes that constrain human action. They believe there is an ideal solution to every problem, and that compromise is never acceptable. Collateral damage is merely the price of moving forward on the road to perfection. Sowell often refers to them as “the self anointed.” Ultimately they believe that man is morally perfectible. Because of this, they believe that there exist some people who are further along the path of moral development, have overcome self-interest and are immune to the influence of power and therefore can act as surrogate decision-makers for the rest of society.

The constrained vision
Sowell argues that the constrained vision relies heavily on belief that human nature is essentially unchanging and that man is naturally inherently self-interested, regardless of the best intentions. Those with a constrained vision prefer the systematic processes of the rule of law and experience of tradition. Compromise is essential because there are no ideal solutions, only trade-offs. Those with a constrained vision favor solid empirical evidence and time-tested structures and processes over intervention and personal experience. Ultimately, the constrained vision demands checks and balances and refuses to accept that all people could put aside their innate self-interest.[4]

I think Sowell nailed that. It nicely explains why progressives so often don’t understand the implications and consequences of their actions. Moral hazard is a good example of a concept they just don’t understand (obwandiyag, if you happen to read this consider reading Sowell’s books mentioned above, you might learn something).

Now, now, a woman has a right to change her mind.

Disagree. The population density per se is not a problem. Strain on natural resources (e.g. water) might be a problem. What is a problem is that natural increase accounts for very little of this.

This guy is about as subtle as a stainless steel-clad building between Central Park and lower Manhattan — closer to the park for sure. He is subtle about making a point — very good!

Mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration are being used as demographic weapons to attack and destroy the European Christian ancestral core of the USA.

We can’t have a White Core American baby boom until the foreigners are barged the Hell out of the USA.

220 by 2040 or fight!

The USA must get down to 220 million people like it was in 1978 — how did the Los Angeles Dodgers do that year? — and then you’ll see the storks flying all over the frigging place.

Barge Style Watery Conveyance Accommodations For All Deported Foreigners!

I am as subtle as a rotting cinder block.

Sierra Club … David Gelbaum

The Sierra Club went from supporting Zero Population Growth in the 1970’s to supporting the Zeroeth Amendment today.

The Sierra Club is a brothel, and all the members are whores. Bought and paid for.

By (((David Gelbaum))). Because reasons.

Every. Single. Time.

megabar

I have said it many times; progressivism isn’t wrong if you believe that people are fundamentally interchangeable. As long as that assumption is held, I can make reasonable arguments for almost all progressive positions.

res
I think you also need to add something like: people can become “ideal” beings (another way of saying it is people are perfectible, so perhaps modify your statement to “people are fundamentally interchangeable and perfectible”?).

Jus’ write on muh blank slate! Perfection on muh tabula rasa!

My Precious Blank Tabula Rasa Slate!

Think of Progtarded Lieberals as an army of Smeagols in eternal search of the Precious, and it’s easier to understand them.

Don’t understand leftists who spend their days whining over fossil fuel usage and a destruction of the environment. The decry suburban sprawl, and in some ways that is of course ugly. But at the same time they have nothing to say about overbuilt cities. There’s nothing natural about high rise luxury buildings nor housing projects. Both strain electrical grids, and water and sewer systems. Huge apartment buildings built to accommodate more population are arguably the most wasteful and artificial of living situations imaginable. Worse, the more down market you get more likely such buildings are poorly maintained. Housing projects are basically firetraps enclosing health hazards.

Worse, liberals do not grasp that 3rd world newcomers do not share their concerns about preserving the environment. They pollute like crazy. They don’t care about sanitation.Local parks are now pockmarked with garbage and shit and urine everywhere. We had hit a point in the 1980s where Americans took picking up after themselves seriously. That is no longer the case. Decent simple medical common sense is nonexistent among them. While it hasn’t happened yet, widespread spread of old time diseases will eventually harm Americans. or worse.

The first thing illegals do when they get to El Norte is to secure a car. Right now in NY and NJ, imbecile Dem pols decided to allow illegals to get drivers licenses. Inspection, auto insurance and registration did not factor in this legislation. So you drive around to see Latinos and others in barely street-worthy jalopies with exotic or “temporary” plates from far away states in hopes the local police computers do not interact with said faraway states. The profusion of Ontario and Oklahoma plates in the tristate area is beyond ridiculous. You know if there’s an accident with them, you’re screwed.

Would also Americans in a generation have radically changed their ideas about how bad drunk driving is . Illegals and especially Latinos do not share these concerns at all.

And really, why are more crowded streets and roads preferable? This is never discussed.

“Equilibrium” was the name of Emperor’s last album. Big impact for its time, but kinda pretentious.

To me, personally, the population density of Eastern Europe, Russia, and Canada, is “normal”. Whereas the population density of Bangladesh, Pakistan, Holland, and England, is “abnormal”.

Anyone who wants the USA to have the population density of India is either evil or insane or both. The USA already is at least 50 mil “over the limit”.

Perhaps the folks who are fighting for a 100 mil Canada should take America’s excess population
http://www.centuryinitiative.ca/

Buzz Mohawk’s comment struck home. For me, the US of past memory had way less than 200 million inhabitants. The 1965 change initiated by Rep. Cellar and Sen. Kenedy in immigration law was a kind of cultural suicide. If not them, then later, for I suspect that the mocking spirit of History would have made it happen sooner or later.

One of the great drivers of world history is Folly. Striking was the decision of the Athenians to invade and conquer Sicily in the 5th century BC which folly destroyed their empire and p0wer, not to speak of the many thousands of dead Athenian soldiers.

We may wring our hands over the folly of the 1965 legislation but there’s no going back. The arrow of time runs in only one direction.

There’s a serious chance that he didn’t know about the various “sects” of his own Republican Party. That he asked his Dad in 2003 on who were the neoconservatives.

Interesting points, and I have always said that in debates over immigration there is a lack of discussion as to what is the optimum population for the piece of the planet that is ours.

Certainly in Florida, where I live, which is the 3rd most populous state, there are huge expanses of empty land over most of the middle of the peninsula and the panhandle, where theoretically several new cities like Orlando might be built, but probably there are numerous factors, like water supply and others that make this impractical.

Other factors include that a growing population is necessary to provide domestic economic growth. Every time a new home is built, that produces work for carpet layers, washing machine delivery and set up, turf laying, mailbox installation, and many, many other paid occupations.

Also as life expectancy increases, there are more older people to support, which requires more younger people who may arrive either via the birth canal or the Panama Canal.

When Trump came to office saying that he would throw out all the illegal aliens and even the Dreamers, I was all for it, but I was also expecting major immigration reform after an informed debate on what would be best for the country and also fulfill the US’s commitment to humanity as well.

The thing is, if the US is full, then what about England, Germany, or Nigeria? Nigeria (pop. 200 million) has 4 times as many people per square km as the US. The United Kingdom has a density 5 times the US, even though most of Scotland is empty and is unable to produce all its own food.

And if all the nations are full, then what is the maximum human population for the planet?

Are there parts of the globe with a climate suitable for human occupation and where food can be produced that are less densely populated than the US where refugees should be redirected?

It seems to me that all the nations ought to be working together to use technology to use land more efficiently, conserve and create fresh water, and ensure that enough food is created and shared so that no one goes hungry.

In the US we are nowhere near the edge of what is feasible. We panic and call it a state of emergency when there are a few dozen central Americans wandering around on our side of the border.

I am not in favor of open border, but we need a PLAN like the Soviet Union had 5–year plans. A plan for immigration (and emigration). We need to be creative. Like maybe we should offer immigrants some kind of tax incentives to return to their homelands and build homes there when they reach retirement age. This would save hugely on Medicare costs, for example and reduce demand for food and water.

We give all kinds of tax breaks to corporations, who are considered by our legal system to be people, but people are people too.

It helps to play the “citizen of the world!” card.

I first encountered that phrase in the book “The First Circle.” Of course the character that used it was a Russian Jew.

Dick Cheney was a Persian spy.

WSJ: white genocide is real, and that’s a good thing.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/03/wall-street-journal-demographic-shift-replace-trump-base/
Also the first legal purchase of marijuana in Illinois goes to the Lt Gov of Illinois.
https://www.breitbart.com/local/2020/01/02/illinois-lt-governor-stratton-among-first-purchase-legal-marijuana/

Sequel dystopian novel:

Onomatopoeia– Equality, Equity, Equilibrium

The people who develop these insane arguments are elites who imagine that their privileged positions will prevent their personal immiseration.

Au contraire. The real aim is enSERFment of the hoi-polloi.

Enserfment has been the real aim of self-selected “elites” since at least the Russian Revolution. Note that communist parties openly aim to institute rule by elite “cadres.”

The elites’ vision is of themselves hopping by helicopter between exclusive high-rises towering above teaming, stinking, violent favelas, alternating with exclusive gated communities set amidst pristine natural environments (former national parks). The masses will be excluded from nature areas, sea shores etc. with lethal force.

A small proportion of the underclass will serve as slaves to undertake domestic duties and provide sexual services for the elite. Slaves (like all non-elites) will be discarded and killed at the elite’s whim.

Large swathes of the non-elite population will be systematically annihilated, some through Aztec-type human sacrifices. In particular, insufficiently docile individuals of European descent will be eliminated. The open contempt for “whites” drummed up in the corporate media since about 2008 presages this outcome.

Those hoi polloi allowed to survive in the favelas will live under strict surveillance and control at the hands of 95 IQ security goons enhanced through AI and robots.

You left one out:

Can Heironymus Merkin Ever Forget Mercy Humppe and Find True Happiness?

Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam–to which the President allegedly responded, “I thought the Iraqis were Muslims!”

Nice story, never happened. Just self-serving, apocryphal twaddle invented by a Deep Stater sore about being passed over for a promotion.

Baby Bush was clearly limited in his understanding on many fronts. One area he would have been VERY clear about from earliest childhood was distinctions in religious affiliation between PEOPLE LIKE US (Protestant/Episcopalian) and OTHER PEOPLE (Catholics, Southern Baptists, Evangelicals etc.).

No great ingenuity or didactic genius would have been needed to convey to someone of Baby Bush’s background and, ur, intellect that similar distinctions exist in the Muslim world.

I think it’s the underlining dimensions that fueled foreign population growth that’s the most frustrating. That the massive “Gen X Baby Bust” insured that the native white population could never sustain the social security/economic growth demanded by the boomers. Family formation for urban Boomers became so socially dysfunctional (high divorce, high abortion, Oprah) that a secondary population needed to be enslaved and brought inside. Preferably a population that was relatively far away during 1960s US moral liberalization. That freedom utterly corrupted the black working class into the welfare gang bang culture we know and love.

Also, the boomers have economically sacrificed cheap quality housing for younger generations. You can’t form a family without them. Policies that would increase low-cost housing would negatively impact boomer 401ks and their own home values. Thus it’s a non-starter.

Well, that’s the problem with letting Christians into the government; it’s a religion that exults in ignorance, mocking “the wisdom of this world,” preaching faith in the absurd, etc. Celsus and others at the time noted that Christianity infiltrated the civilized world through women and slaves — i.e., the uneducated.

Moreover, Mr. Bush’s own sect is prone to referring to itself as Christianity as such, with other denoms being denied the title, as being no better than paganism; so it’s not like he can grasp how Sunnis and Shiites are “both Moslems”. To be fair, others do so as well (old time Catholics with their “no one outside the Church etc.), and when it comes to Mormons not being Christian, well, they have a point.

It’s good to keep this in mind when folks like Fuentes talk about “we need Christianity to save America”; they likely mean “my own denomination,” whether Roman Catholic or some obscure ethnarchy like Latvian Orthodoxy. We need Bill the Butcher to solve our problems, not these these guys who’ll bring us the peace of Ireland, the Middle East or the Thirty Years War.

To be even more fair, I think it was a Moslem who said “Kill them all, let God sort them out.”

Desperate Third Word people will continue to flood into America until conditions here are as bad as in the Third World. Only then will they stop coming. Equillibrium will be reached when America is destroyed.

Steve, if Anthony Burroughs were still alive, he’d be just the guy to write it. Born John Burgess Wilson in England in 1917, he wrote the clockwork orange and the wanting seed. Just finishing the Wanting Seed now and it is quite an experience — and waaaaay too plausible for comfort, nowadays.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Burgess

What a fascinating, talented, and in some ways unfortunate man Burroughs was. Rest In Peace.

Second nominee to write the dystopian novel about this equilibrium scenario: Houllebecq.

I hate it, none the less. Some modern clown calls his book War and Peace, etc. I really hate when they give books titles that seem nonfiction, and then when I investigate it has “A Novel” added. Sometimes even the reverse: something like “Brideshead Revisited: A Look at the Appeasement Lobby. 1930-39”

Also, the boomers have economically sacrificed cheap quality housing for younger generations. You can’t form a family without them. Policies that would increase low-cost housing would negatively impact boomer 401ks and their own home values. Thus it’s a non-starter.

Poof. This is a bit like George Orwell saying that everyone should have a pig in their back yard that would eat their garbage and provide them with a year’s supply of bacon, but that this was forbidden due to the power and influence of the commercial pork lobby.

His wife sensibly pointed out that nobody wanted a smelly pig producing a lot of manure in their back yard.

a) the vast majority of boomers are not builders, b) millions of people live in mobile homes, c) housing is relatively cheaper in the US than in other developed nations.

Really thoughtful comment, Jack, and much truth therein.

As for the northern cities like buffalo and philly, of course, sensible people of all backgrounds understandably don’t want to live there — especially people with children — because of the savage African presence above all, even were a decent job available there. We have spent decades paving over farmland and forest, to the detriment of the ecosystem and our own quality of life, for numerous reasons but in part to escape these people.

You’re right that the urban-nonurban distribution matters for quality-of-life and cultural purposes. But wherever people live, an ever-growing population has meant ever more pollution from homes, vehicles, and businesses. We can and should keep making our burning of fossil fuels less dirty, and when possible phasing the fossil fuels out in favor of solar or nuclear or the like.

But the increased fossil-fuel burning that comes with our ever-growing population seems set to increase pollution faster than our improving methods of conservation, Pollutant “scrubbing”, mass transit, etc. Wherever the next hundred million people living in America live, urban or suburban or rural, their burning of fossil fuels will almost inevitably harm all of us — not even mentioning other less tangible harms from the nature of the population coming in.

This is all the more likely given that many of the people opposing our efforts to staunch the out-of-control inflow of people into our country, also vigorously oppose nuclear power. They may tend to support subsidies for solar and wind power, and I’m actually all for that, but the realistic capacity of those energy sources seems to pale in comparison to nuke plants for many regions.

CA, where we live, has been making some progress in encouraging the spread of solar power at homes and businesses, and for a change I agree with our rulers here. But any progress we make on that front is readily overwhelmed by letting another million people, then another million, then another million. Whether urban or not, the inflow is already dangerously in excess of the carrying capacity of our water supplies and therefore our nearby crops.

“The natural temptation is to think that the America of your youth is the “right” one and that the current America is ruined. This may be true but it requires more analysis than just picking an arbitrary date (the time when you were in elementary school) and declaring that to be the Golden Age.”

I too have been saying this for years. But if you enforced that rule, the whole “Right” would collapse. I call this way of thinking “unprincipled” (ha-ha) because there’s no established principle against which identify the point where the rot set in.

This is the appeal of the otherwise impractical folks like Evola (the French Revolution) or Fuentes (the Council of Trent). That way lies Ignatius Reilly.

I have often said that Detroit in 1972 was Peak White Civilization, based purely on my own teenage years, but I am pleased to find iSteve and other often pick the same year for their data point — eg., decline of wages starts in 1975, etc.

I think most iStevers would agree with that date, but maybe that’s just a question of age (no one here remembers the Gilded Age).

People can rant about “liberalism” or whatever all they want, but if you dialed things back to 95% White America, pre-1965 Immigration Reform, most of their actual problems would be solved.

Correct. And the strain on the water supply is DEFINITELY already a problem here in California. It can only get worse as the influx of both legal immigrants and illegal aliens continues at an (un)healthy clip.

Some examples suggesting that the drought problem is more severe than most realize or want to admit:

From 2014:
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-california-drought-portable-showers-20141119-story.html

From 2015:
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-outdoor-showers-20150710-story.html
https://www.berkeleyside.com/2015/10/20/how-the-california-wide-drought-is-affecting-berkeley

From 2019, plans to take more water from the ocean, really alarming:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/27/100-million-desalination-project-to-be-led-by-lawrence-berkeley-national-lab/

Doesn’t matter what race, color, religion, or ideology characterize these newcomers, we are running out of water and the outcome will not be humane for them or us. We can all die of thirst or hunger together in one big diverse mass.

I went to:

Earth Temperature Timeline

Yes, I did laugh a bit. However, he limits the history of climate change to the end of the last Ice Age conveniently leaving out prior warm eras. Here’s the text of his strawman:

When people say “the climate has changed before” these are the kinds of changes they’re talking about.

Are they?

And he ends with classic, questionable, hockey stick trend.

Oh and the incessant pozzing in this and his other comics starts to grate.

British (!) Army has counter-poaching teams in South Africa. Doesn’t South Africa still have an army?

South Africa’s army increasingly consists of black Bantus. They have a certain style. Not necessarily subtle or diligent.

Soldiers from the 2nd Battalion Royal Gurkha Rifles

Lol!
The Gurkhas have a certain style, too. There are stories from 20th century wars including the Falklands war of Gurkhas infiltrating enemy defensive positions, quietly killing the sentries, and leaving their heads as decorations in front of someone’s tent or bunker.

Any ivory poachers the Gurkhas encounter will just…vanish. Poof!

Funny, the Iroquois prevented any convergence between their condition and that of the Sioux, who also prevented convergence with the Aztec empire.

And they managed it with nothing more sophisticated than clubs, bows and arrows.

So, when will they stop coming?

Mortar fire aimed at hordes coming to the border, and hanging the ones and twos and draping them on the fence, would stop them very quickly.

For the ones coming in by plane, demanding a hefty deposit at our embassy before they leave and making them forfeit it if they don’t go back on time would be very effective too.  We could outsource the job of internal enforcement to bounty hunters paid with forfeited deposits.  Imagine if Americans could get a heap o’ cash by ratting out illegals.

And are there really people who think it would be a good idea to trade the country we’ve got for a country like that?

Apparently.  They are doing their best to convince us that we can’t use mortars, rifles and nooses to end this problem.

“They are an 8th grade caliber at best.”

Good stuff comes from the 8th grade. For boys those years are peak wiseass.

I agree, the demographic charges of the United States were started with the baby-bust. The introduction of birth control combined with the rise of feminism resulted in far fewer children being born.

“what they call “Young Adult’ in the literary market is really teenagers, 12-18”

At age 12 my favorite Young Adult book was The Shining. As I turned 13 I began to realize Stephen King was a hack.

Actually, the story is quite believable. Have you ever listened to that moron? Do you remember his disastrous policies? Not just the wars, but nominating Harriet Miers for SC. Two consecutive years of trying to run a nation ending amnesty. I voted for him once without doing my due diligence.

3 million free people and 700,000 slaves were counted on the 1790 census and about 70,000 Indians were estimated to live within the United States in 1790. I imagine one reason the United States had open borders until 1880 was to reduce the Black population. 22% of the US population was Black in 1790.

Interesting to note that Mexico had a larger population than the United States in 1800, with about 5 million people, But just 1 million Whites , 1 million Indians, 2 million Mestizos and 500,000 Blacks.

Mexico (New Spain) banned immigration from all nations except Spain, so by 1820 the USA had moved past Mexico’s population of 6.6 million to become the most populous country in the New World. But due to mixed-raced marriages Mexico was able to reduce their Black population from 10% in 1800 to 1% by 1900.

Many open borders advocates openly argue that this equilibrium is desirable because the aggregate well-being of all human units will be increased when third-world units have finally been thoroughly mixed with first-world models.

And they’re flagrantly wrong. Taxing productive humans results in human regress. The well-being of future humans matters, too, even if you weirdly accept a detached “objective” utilitarianism. And the well-being of those humans depends on the survival and relative increase of productive humans in the generations before those future humans are born.

There are so many more third-worlders than first-worlders, you see, that the aggregate improvement in conditions, when all populations are mixed, will more than compensate for the mass impoverishment of westerners. Mass immigration is a moral imperative because utilitarianism.

And the number of future humans dwarfs the number of present humans, meaning that the continuation of human progress (i.e., the incremental increase in human wealth per capita resulting from the efforts of the producers thereof) through the protection of the productive is a moral imperative from a utilitarian viewpoint.

Thanks for bringing up Sowell.

Steven Pinker cites Sowell’s A Conflict of Visions in his (Pinker’s) masterpiece The Blank Slate, in the process renaming them the “Utopian Vision” and the “Tragic Vision”. Pinker says flat-out that the Utopian Vision is in direct conflict with most of our inborn human nature and its adherents are responsible for the hundreds of millions killed under totalitarian regimes in the 20th century. Those advocating unrestricted immigration into the US are clearly operating under the Utopian Vision.

Equilibrium would be a great prescription brand name for a drug that numbs the minds of the triggered.

Paranoia tells me Virginia has become a laboratory for the Authoritarian Left. In the 196os California was a laboratory for the Authoritarian Right — an MKULTRA petri dish for the creation of cults and fringe political movements in the effort to find the key to psychological control.

Are you sure David Gelbaum is Jewish?? All right. I guess I’ll take your word for it

If you must relax around blacks, do not then expect law or order or property rights or safety or anything.
Chinese engineering student is studying at Starbucks [NOT ALLOW], there’s no Kingston cord on his laptop [NOT ALLOW], his laptop gets diversified [THE SHAME BROUGHT TO YOUR FAMILY IS YOUR OWN FAULT]. However, this guy decides there aren’t enough bugsquash videos floating around, and instead of valuing his life, he attempts to regain his property. You know what happens next.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7850651/Getaway-driver-thief-charged-Starbucks-customer-34-died-chasing-men-stole-laptop.html

I grew up in Manhattan.

I can see why the rest of the country doesn’t want to live like that.

You don’t have to be a country boy to see why 1 billion Americans is a stupid idea.

The only real justification I can think of is to keep level with China, but as long as we’ve got our nukes, they’re not going to invade us.

Ron Unz should invite a handful of eminent urban planners, civil engineers, traffic engineers, agricultural scientists, sociologists, public health experts, etc. to sketch out what America would need to do to accommodate one billion people, how much it would cost, and how it would change the landscape and the typical American way of life.

I had a few qualms with Kim Stanley Robinson’s novel New York 2140, but I liked that he at least grappled with the left’s ideas and fleshed out what life in their kind of future would be like, e.g., Manhattan co-ops reduced to cramped SROs in a half-drowned city.

As noted in the link his name was Anthony Burgess. A great writer.

You’d have fewer problems if water was appropriately priced, i.e. water rights repair to the government, which holds seasonal multiple price auctions of water draws. The global sum auctioned would derived from assessments of physical availability. The bidders in the primary market would be growers, primary dealers, and local water authorities. Any of these could sell on a secondary exchange, while water authorities sell to their customers. Supervisory commissions would place controls on employee compensation at local water authorities and controls on retained income, but allow prices to float. The net effect of drought would be price spikes in the water market. Land is taken out of production, one crop is substituted for another, the sprinklers are put away for a season, &c.

Somebody tells you you are standing on what was and what could be paradise and you say, ‘so what? I don’t care. Plus it’s all going to be shit anyway without those sweet illegals to keep our numbers up.’

How in the hell did you miss decency and manners? You’re an adult now but it’s never too late to learn.

So am I missing something?

Yes, you’re missing almost everything. You’re missing the fact that wanting does not equal getting, otherwise the world would have achieved equilibrium ages ago. There is an actual, physical process that has to take place to get from A to B, and it involves energy and wealth and opportunity and a very complex cost/benefit analysis. Leaving means uprooting yourself, leaving your family and social circle, liquefying all your assets, undertaking a risky journey, and then trying to establish yourself in a new place with God only knows what result. Most of the time it just isn’t worth it to most people, no matter how much difference exists between their current conditions and their possible future conditions.

The immigration that exists in the world today is unnatural. Most of these people aren’t moving on their own, they’re being recruited and facilitated every step of the way, and helped along by such things as cheap commercial airfare (which is historically quite an anomaly). This will all change long, long before equilibrium is even a distant possibility.

Speaking of equilibrium:  human behavior is what makes shithole countries, shithole countries.  Also explains just how the plastic which becomes pollution in the oceans gets there.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9fdZ8_1578084336

You’re a bit too apocalyptic…
Granted populations in the developed world have stopped reproducing and declined. That is no reason to think they will always stop reproducing and always decline. If a popluation declines for a few generations, then the generations that follow grow up in changed conditions and having big families may start to look good again, so population starts to increase.
If there are too many deer in the woods the predator popluation increases and the deer decline. If there are too few deer the predator population decreases and the deer increase. Round and round we go.
The real problem is not the decline in our population. It is that we are being replaced by a new population, and when the time comes to start increasing again, they will be the ones increasing here, not us.

Before he invaded Iraq, George W. Bush didn’t know the difference between Sunnis and Shiites.

He also said Islam is a peaceful religion. That could have been corrected merely by pulling Pres. Jefferson’s copy of George Sale’s translation of “The Alcoran of Mohammed” off the shelf of Mrs. Fillmore’s library. And opening it.

Equilibrium would be a good title for a frightening Young Adult dystopian novel.

First there was Women’s Lib, then there was Gay Lib, and now there is Equi Lib.

Somebody tells you you are standing on what was and what could be paradise and you say, ‘so what? I don’t care. Plus it’s all going to be shit anyway without those sweet illegals to keep our numbers up.’

That isn’t at all what I said, you idiot. Do you even read?

‘I guess I’ll take your word for it’

You don’t need to. Go to the link.

It’s a bit confusing, because “young adult” would really be from 18-26 but by that age people are reading “full adult” books, if they are reading at all.

In prisons in the US youthful offenders are from 18 to 24, and on their 25th birthday when they age out they are transferred to an adult camp. In the UK young offenders age out when they reach 21, so perhaps UK criminals are more mature for their age.

In terms of books it appears that Young Adults is just a euphemism for adolescents, because more mature teenagers, if they read at all, are more likely to be reading adult literature.

At the age of 16 Lady Chatterley’s Lover was one of my favorites (for some reason I forget!), though I also like Thomas Hardy’s Far From The Madding Crowd, which might have had something to do with the appeal of Julie Christie in the movie of the same name. I was also reading a huge hardback volume of Victorian pornography in German–which no one in my family understood, thankfully–so at that point I wasn’t going to read anything for Young Adults.

Major Jez England, the officer commanding the British Army counter-poaching team…

Any relation to Lynndie?

You remember… America’s Feminist of the Decade for the Aughts?

Smash the Patriarchy!

Steven Pinker cites Sowell’s A Conflict of Visions in his (Pinker’s) masterpiece The Blank Slate, in the process renaming them the “Utopian Vision” and the “Tragic Vision”. Pinker says flat-out that the Utopian Vision is in direct conflict with most of our inborn human nature and its adherents are responsible for the hundreds of millions killed under totalitarian regimes in the 20th century. Those advocating unrestricted immigration into the US are clearly operating under the Utopian Vision.

Steven Pinker said some nasty things about the work of Sir Edward Dutton and therefore, Pinker can go stew in his own juices in sub-Saharan Africa.

Thomas Sowell blamed Black criminality and Black wanton violence on Blacks aping the behaviour and manners of Scotch-Irish plantation overseers, so Sowell can join Pinker in sub-Saharan Africa too.

Pinker can piss off! That’s what the English would say! Sir Edward Dutton says Pinker is a “nasty man.”

Sowell can screw off! That’s what this American with a Givens surname in his ancestry says!

Sir Edward Dutton and the Steven Pinker and the Undark Magazine stuff starting at 34:45 of video:

Honoring the porous border that allows for the diffusion of people

how does Porous work as a title or a new name for US such as dys-poria….the hyphen symbolizing the bridge to the present that previous generations laid

Worse, liberals do not grasp that 3rd world newcomers do not share their concerns about preserving the environment. They pollute like crazy. They don’t care about sanitation.

This is mainly a function of lack of education.

Where I live there are relatively few (recent) immigrants, but we have rednecks throwing fast food wrappers out the windows of their trucks and begging for money at gas stations.

A woman who had recently arrived from another country once pointed out to me that in Jacksonville, FL there were many homes where the outside porches were stuffed to the ceiling with junk and she wondered if she could make money getting rid of the trash for the householders.

I informed her that the householders would not thank her for pointing out that they were living in a garbage heap, and certainly would not pay her to remove the stuff, even if they had money,which they probably did not.

(Incidentally, I myself have never really seen this phenomenon in other countries, though perhaps it exists, and I was not aware.)

Have huge respect for Gurkha troops.

I don’t follow the logic between US real estate and the Orwell pig analogy.

Ever since the 1980s, real estate has been viewed as a financial investment for middle-upper class boomers. Typically when prices plunge that special generation will scream until their co-generationalist politicians move heaven and earth to boost it back up. Thus (partially) the “Invade the World, Invite the World” short term logic. Also, the intense pressure on maximum returns for boomer shareholders has stunted wage growth for decades. (Who’s supposed to buy these expensive houses I don’t know.)

> I think you also need to add something like: people can become “ideal” beings (another way of saying it is people are perfectible, so perhaps modify your statement to “people are fundamentally interchangeable and perfectible”?).

Yes. In my mind, it’s implied, because if all people are interchangeable, and some people are capable of building prosperous, high-trust societies, then all people are capable of doing so with the right environment.

But the main point is that I agree with you.

3 million free people and 700,000 slaves were counted on the 1790 census and about 70,000 Indians were estimated to live within the United States in 1790.

So about a million people less than the current population of New Zealand, which has a population density about one third of that of the US.

One wonders whether the Supreme Court justices who believe they can divine the original intent of the founders take into account that the whole nation had a population less than that of present day Harris County, Texas in the time of the founders and that corporations hardly existed.

Looks like it won’t be equilibrium with the whole world though.

Good point. Manhattan reaches its peak population in 1910 at 2.4 million and today has 1.5 million. Brooklyn’s population peaked in 1950 at 2.7 million and has 2.4 million today while Queens keeps getting more people year after year and now has 2.2 million.

that special generation

As opposed to the “Greatest”? Or the “Millennial”?

Enough with the astrology, already.

Family formation for urban Boomers became so socially dysfunctional (high divorce, high abortion, Oprah) . . . .

More importantly, it became EXPENSIVE because of higher direct taxes and vastly higher indirect taxes consisting of the cost of private school tuition (or endless commuting time) due to forced integration.

Interesting points, and I have always said that in debates over immigration there is a lack of discussion as to what is the optimum population for the piece of the planet that is ours.

There’s only one way to find out: Stop immigration, and see what happens.

Other factors include that a growing population is necessary to provide domestic economic growth. Every time a new home is built, that produces work for carpet layers, washing machine delivery and set up, turf laying, mailbox installation, and many, many other paid occupations.

Not true. Extra stuff can be built for the existing population, with the result that each person becomes wealthier.

Science published a note outlining why it would be retracting the paper, which Ms Arnold co-authored with Inha Cho and Zhi-Jun Jia.

Not female science, Chinese science. Fraudsters trying to get ahead by putting their names on a paper with a Nobel laureate.

They are doing their best to convince us that we can’t use mortars, rifles and nooses to end this problem

We don’t even need to do that – just don’t let them in and send back those who get through.

Re Trump “52 Targets representing the 52 hostages,” this is how a terrorist talks. Those hostages were taken and the sanctity of the embassy violated because it had already been violated and made a legitimate target by the CIA. A real military targets legitimate sites relating to the enemy’s ability to fight, and the number of targets is potentially infinite but strategically dictated. Terrorists use symbol-violence, in fact, politically and historically symbolic violence is a pretty good definition of terrorism.

https://matzav.com/dozens-of-jewish-charities-supported-by-newly-revealed-‘13-billion-mystery-angels’/

exposing the identities of a trio of philanthropists, who took great pains to conceal their giving, revealed extensive support for Jewish charities

https://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/22136/aclu-donor-withdraws-20m-gift

We noted earlier today that l’affaire Madoff continues to have an adverse effect on philanthropy. And today brought news of another apparently hard-hit Jewish donor: David Gelbaum

https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Category:Jewish_American_philanthropists

My parents are from India — my moniker refers to a chess player.

The author describes immigration since the 1960s as an “invasion”, making no distinction between legal and illegal immigration. So when my father came as a post-doc, or when my wife’s siblings came to do medical residencies, he calls them “invaders”. That is a racist slander. My parents and my wife’s family followed the rules. They have worked and are working at productive jobs serving other Americans. Was legal white immigration in the past an “invasion”?

Steve has important insights on race, but it’s too bad there is much racist crap posted by his readers, and that he highlights the crap.

My current problem with this site is that it mostly convinces me that we’re fucked.

And soon there’s going to be Freudian heaven in Syria’s Id-lib.

It’s like that line from Mark Steyn “It’s a good basic axiom that if you take a quart of ice-cream and a quart of dog feces and mix ’em together the result will taste more like the latter than the former. ” That’s convergence.

Our descendants are expected to be equilibrists.

Instead, they will have to be contortionists.

anonymous[383] • Disclaimer says: January 4, 2020 at 2:27 pm GMT Equilibrium is not the goal, although it will be the result. The goal is “get while the getting’s good & get out”. Our elites only care about themselves in their own lifetimes.

Leftists demonize the foundation of the nation for 100 years and eventually the elites disassociate from their home country entirely e.g. “England is no longer a legitimate entity.”

Rinse and repeat for God. And then for family etc.

…it’s the Great Unmooring.

“The 1965 change initiated by Rep. Cellar and Sen. Kenedy in immigration law was a kind of cultural suicide.”

For Kennedy it was suicide. For Cellar it was murder.

There’s nothing natural about high rise luxury buildings nor housing projects.

There’s nothing natural about our whole modern lifestyle.

Both strain electrical grids, and water and sewer systems.

No more than 100 single family homes. It’s like when a kid cuts his vegetables into pieces in order to be able to eat less. And the strain isn’t an externality unless the electricity, water, and sewage is being subsidized, if it is, the solution is to end said subsidies.

Housing projects are basically firetraps enclosing health hazards.

And sprawling suburban housing developments require long commute times, inevitably leading to more traffic deaths. Not that there’s any conflict here: my position is simple: build whatever people are willing to buy.

Also, the boomers have economically sacrificed cheap quality housing for younger generations. You can’t form a family without them. Policies that would increase low-cost housing would negatively impact boomer 401ks and their own home values. Thus it’s a non-starter.

Young white families can’t live in the type of low-cost housing you’re talking about, and “boomer” preferences have nothing to do with it.

Rising populist opposition to “green initiatives” is currently one of the biggest threats to the progressive/neoliberal urban establishment. Three major examples are anger over fuel prices (as seen in France) anger over green tape (as seen among dutch farmers) and soon to explode anger over green forestry management in Australia.

Immigration is a boiling frog issue in which most people don’t see any immediate impact on their lives. However, sentiment-driven green initiatives can effect people in direct and dramatic ways, such as unnecessary tax hikes, hefty fines for protecting your own property, and large scale natural disasters.

Overpopulation gives people a more PC reason to oppose immigration. But it also leads logically to lots more stupidity. In an overpopulation paradigm, you have little choice but to encourage family-hostile urban lifestyles as the best way to reduce the population back to a “sustainable” point.

For those who actually believe it, why didn’t Ehrlich win the bet? Why are gas prices so low? Why is there no shortage of food, but such abundance that one-third of Americans are obese? If people don’t like density, why are people voting with their feet against rural areas in favor of suburban and urban ones? The housing shortage is not a product of scarcity of land, but an artificial shortage caused by supply restriction. Why is there not enough housing? Because the authorities won’t let people build more. It’s not that complex.

America is not overpopulated. Simon was right, humans are the ultimate resource. If America’s population were doubled, all else being equal, Americans would be richer. There would be twice as many consumers, but also twice as many producers, and economies of scale and faster innovation from twice as many innovators would make prices for the consumer cheaper for most goods. The problem with magic dirt believers like Yglesias is that when populations grow all is not equal and they ignore this.

My own personal philosophy could be called “misanthropic natalism.” I see the average normie as frustratingly irrational, dedicating far too much space in his brain to status games and unproductive loyalty signalling. But that doesn’t mean they are not productive economic agents. Wealth is ultimately not stored in land or oil or machinery, it’s stored in humans, they are what is necessary to turn those natural resources into economic resources you can use, still by far the best machine there is.

The same people babble about the sea rising and global warming want a billion Americans; insanity. Reality is the sea as measured at the Battery in lower Manhattan since the 1600s has risen, but at a steady rate of 1 foot per century. But if the big concern is rapidly rising seas, how do you overload coastal metropolises with excess population. And having seen how crazy things got in flooded parts of the tristate area after Hurricane Sandy, our civilization is not nearly as secure as people think. 3 weeks of gas shortages and no electricity coupled with lack of shelter in cold late fall; we were very close to societal collapse(as an aside, ask Bloomberg about wanting to run the marathon with the starting line overlooking a place where 2 boys were swept out to sea). And into that, the left wants to add even more population, most of whom share nothing with those already here. That would not make for a more cohesive society.

Until Trump the GOP was wedded to the ideal that any GDP growth was good. But that isn’t a measure of quality of life. And it’s not a net statistic in that regard. Japan may not have great GDP growth, but it’s a stable healthy society, if overcrowded. At least as a homogeneous people, at least you’re crowded with people who look like you. That by every measure gets worse with diversity. Growing GDP with people who are a net drain on your quality of life accomplishes nothing good and much bad. As others have said; we need to have that conversation , and now.

Many open borders advocates openly argue that this equilibrium is desirable because the aggregate well-being of all human units will be increased when third-world units have finally been thoroughly mixed with first-world models.

Shouldn’t it be just as utilitarian to impose a first world model on the third world while leaving its residents in place?

Maybe neocolonialism is the only solution to mass immigration. Just imagine how better off, say, Nigeria would be today if it were a free market run by the British civil service according to rule of law rather than by its own incompetent kleptocracy.

Nah, that’s too racist to even think about.

All humans are racist, but in India, they’ve formalized it to the highest degree. Jews and Japanese are simple about it-there’s us and there’s the goyjin. In India you have subcastes in profusion-it’s like the Star Trek IDIC babble.

I’m not deriding this. It is not good or bad, it just is.
Humans are racially conscious, breathe oxygen and are carbon based.

Except with single suburban family houses, they can in fact drill wells for their water, get propane for heat and energy,and increasingly draw electric power from solar panels. You aren’t cooling a skyscraper with solar panels. And by law in NYC, high rises have to have both gas and home heating oil heating systems. Long commute times for white collars get to be less of a factor every year with increased cyber commuting.

Young white families can’t live in the type of low-cost housing you’re talking about

Pretty sure young white people can live in low-cost housing, given that I see so with my own eyes. Though perhaps you mean it in a no-true scottsman type of way: they aren’t real Aryans or something.

I was thinking something along these lines.

By cheap I’m referring to fairly sizable homes with 3 bedrooms with a nice backyard space. Such homes were far easier to obtain during the 1970s and 1980s with an average salary.

If you possess an alternative theory to the boomer reverse mortgage scheme please explain.

Many of us didn’t understand the religious and sectarian divisions in Iraq. This was a key factor the ‘experts’ didn’t seem to mention so much in the lead up to the invasion.

We were all sold the story of a highly educated population with a strong civil society that was just waiting to blossom the minute Saddam was deposed. The ugly truth was Saddam was the only thing holding Iraq together. I’ve come to believe, it wasn’t an accident or an oversight that the divided nature of Iraqi society wasn’t explained to us (or George Bush?) properly. The entire venture was not an attempt to build Iraq. It was designed to destroy Iraq. The plan was a massive success.

I’m sure there is more success of this type in store for Iran.

Since your parents are from India, then they left for some reason and decided to stay here. As you know India has a large population in a fairly small area for so many. And that puts a strain on resources. Would you say that in the past some time when the population was about what ours now is, it would have been helpful to try to stay at that level rather than increase to the current level? Of course, in the past it wasn’t so easy to humanely maintain a certain population level, but if they could have, wouldn’t it have been helpful? Regardless of race, filling a space beyond carrying capacity is a pretty dangerous road. I understand India’s aquifers are a cause for concern as everyone needs water. So, if we are concerned about people’s use of energy contributing to climate change, then isn’t it obvious that we shouldn’t be facilitating folk using ever more energy per capita? We would all love a new energy source that is clean, affordable, renewable and won’t contribute to climate change. But we don’t actually have it yet. Therefore we shouldn’t be moving people wholesale from places with low energy use per capita to places with high energy use per capita. We have the examples of high population density, and we need to learn from them and not just replicate them. Only 10% of immigrants to the USA are skilled educated people. They are not a problem here or in their home countries, but folks who are unskilled and uneducated coming here do have significant impact that isn’t positive for today’s current USA citizens who are average or below and that doesn’t even include how much more energy they use per capita after they arrive. Naturally, no one wants their quality of life diminished, so, of course people don’t see getting to a billion population as some desirable situation. It sure doesn’t look desirable to those leaving the two countries that already have a billion in population. That is why they leave.

I dunno, I’m likely too forgone with my boomer hatred. I also make too much money selling these t-shirts to the kids to give it up easily. I’m like a former black panther selling my hatred of whites to liberal white people. Its been like 50+ years and white boys still slurp it up.

Also, which scientifically objective demographic/policy breakdown to you believe is the bane of affordable housing for legacy Americans?

*Also, Hitler’s Astrologer was right about the D-Day landing occurring in Normandy, while the German High Command got it wrong.

If America’s population were doubled, all else being equal, Americans would be richer. There would be twice as many consumers, but also twice as many producers, and economies of scale and faster innovation from twice as many innovators would make prices for the consumer cheaper for most goods.

Uh, Americans aren’t producers. Chinese are producers as are other low cost labor countries.

We are living in a pyramid scheme which is why that fool Yglesias want a billion more at the bottom of the pyramid.

Ron Unz should invite

In your hypothetical conclave, how many …

eminent urban planners, civil engineers, traffic engineers, agricultural scientists, sociologists, public health experts, etc.

… are ‘race realists’ and would make eugenic HBD (racial aesthetics, temperament, and intelligence) societal goals the first order of business?

I’m guessing zero—most people in most of those occupations skew left. It would be a Pollyannaish con job—“Wir schaffen das!”

This is an astonishingly ignorant comment. America produces all kinds of products, many of the Chinese products you buy are based on American designs. To the extent that we import more than we export(thus effectively exporting dollars) this is due to the fact that foreigners trust our currency more than their own and also to our credit.

… he calls them “invaders”. That is a racist slander.

I don’t see why you’re upset. You should consider yourself a lucky (for now) beneficiary of invasion.

Was legal white immigration in the past an “invasion”?

Yes. Some of it was explicitly curtailed from 1924-1965.

“Only 10% of immigrants to the USA are skilled educated people. ”

Asian Americans earn college degrees at a higher rate than other U.S. groups and have a higher average income.

I do agree with you that Americans are not obliged to allow mass immigration from India or any other country. I just object to legal immigrants from certain countries being called “invaders”.

a quart of ice-cream and a quart of dog feces

Steyn is pretty zany! He actually mixed it up and tasted it once, called it “soft serve pooch paste.” YouTube made him take down the video.

In your hypothetical conclave, how many … are ‘race realists’ and would make eugenic HBD (racial aesthetics, temperament, and intelligence) societal goals the first order of business?

I don’t think “conclave” is the right word for this, but the right word escapes me at the moment. As for your question, probably zero would make “race realist” arguments (unless one of the experts was Amy Wax). But that’s a feature, not a bug, as “race realism” is currently outside the Overton Window, so it’s useful to have objections made within the Overton Window.

Pretty sure young white people can live in low-cost housing, given that I see so with my own eyes. Though perhaps you mean it in a no-true scottsman type of way: they aren’t real Aryans or something.

I guess you live in Iceland or something. Or on a college campus. For everyone else, low-cost housing means lots of black neighbors, and white families cannot live in such an environment.

By cheap I’m referring to fairly sizable homes with 3 bedrooms with a nice backyard space. Such homes were far easier to obtain during the 1970s and 1980s with an average salary.

If you possess an alternative theory to the boomer reverse mortgage scheme please explain.

I still have no idea how Boomers are supposed to fit into the picture. White families can’t live in “cheap” housing because they have no way to keep black people away.

If they vote, they’re invaders.

It’s like when a kid cuts his vegetables into pieces in order to be able to eat less.

Or more like cutting a healthy serving of vegetables into ten pieces, calling each new inadequate piece a single serving, and giving each to a different kid as their only portion.

My position is simple: build whatever people are willing to buy.

Terms and conditions may apply. Not available in all zoning districts. See local bylaws for details. YIMBYs may get the rope at homeowners’ discretion. Member FAFO.

Brenda Walker indeed rocks, Charles. I don’t know how in the hell , OK, heck, she stays civil and calm in every single one of her articles on VDare. You and I have a somewhat different personality regarding how we take this stuff.

It’s not just Carl Pope, but every single member of the Sierra Club is at this point a lying sack of shit. They say they want to save the environment. As Peak Stupidity pointed out in “Toward Sustainable Stupidity”, every single environmental problem in the world, whether truly urgent or just virtual signaling (like recycling) is increased proportionally to population.

As I wrote way back in “Are American Indians Slobs”, Mother Earth can do a decent job cleaning up after 5 or 10 million people on a continent the size of North America. When it gets to 1/2 a BILLION, she’s just plumb tired out.

These Sierra Club members are not your 90 IQ people of coloration. They are smart enough to know what Buzz, Steve, and the commenters here understand. They obviously care about ruining the country demographically more than they care about whatever environment will result.

(OK, at the top end, the people in the offices of this “non-profit” organization, most likely care more about the Sierra Club budget than anything else, like saving the trees, saving the bees, saving the whales, and saving those snails.)

With 120 million Californians you’ll be lucky if they let you shower twice per week.

https://twitter.com/dc_draino/status/1212888685970100230?s=21

white families cannot live in such an environment.

Yes they can. Look at rural areas of the South. Whites and blacks there live in cheap housing, sometimes in separate neighborhoods from the Blacks, sometimes quite “integrated” with them geographically if not culturally. They don’t want to live this way and it probably does restrict their fertility compared with what it could be,(note that white fertility in the South is lower than in the great plains) but they have no choice, and manage to have fertility rates which are considerably higher than middle-class suburban NIMBYs in the rest of the country. High housing costs are part of the death of family formation in America. There are other problems but artificial scarcity of housing via zoning does nothing to solve them.

YIMBYs may get the rope at homeowners’ discretion. Member FAFO.

Is this the hill you want to die on? Because if it came down to a choice between a Democrat who supports YIMBY and a Republican who wants artificially scare high-cost housing, I won’t be voting for the Republican. Historically the Republicans have been the party of low regulation in all areas including housing, and have benefited from the resulting dysfunction of blue America. Ygelsias himself wrote about this:

https://www.vox.com/2019/12/27/21039043/ibrahim-samirah-virginia-single-family-zoning?utm_campaign=mattyglesias&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

If this signals a re-alignment, if the Democrats are going to cease hitting themselves on the head with hammer and the Republicans start picking the hammer up, they can do it #WithoutMe.

The real problem is not the decline in our population. It is that we are being replaced by a new population, and when the time comes to start increasing again, they will be the ones increasing here, not us.

Those populations will be unable to create conditions to start increasing again.  They lack the essential attributes.

White families can’t live in “cheap” housing because they have no way to keep black people away.

Good point, I live in a State (Oregon) that’s 85% white. Unfortunately, hundreds of thousands of white boomer Californians sell their homes for a profit and move here. They downsize being mainly retired and squeeze the starting home market. Many moan and cry out for California (especially during sex) but fear the taxes and minorities. The younger Californians are still a pain, but are typically broke and consequently stay in rental apartments. Portland (our beloved de facto state capital) is roughly 25-35% made up of those of Californian “ancestry.” The first wave started in the 1990s when many middle aged boomers found LA gang/black riots too hot to handle. It’s easier to gentrify lily white neighborhoods in SE Portland than California’s Oakland or South Central.

No idea on how to help against blacks moving into cheap affordable neighborhoods (or at least legally.) That’s the “P versus NP problem” of urban real estate. Portland has a black underclass in the northern region. But everyone, even the sons and daughters of the Civil Rights Movement hope the river will flood them out during a massive storm.

I’m sorry, I’m not buying it. The first emigrants may be the energetic and adventurous, but once a tradition of emigration get established whole villages get emptied out. A surprisingly large percentage of the world’s population is on record as wanting to move to another country if they could. And it’s getting easier and easier to do that — the actual physical process may have been a big deal in the past, but it isn’t any more. What will grease the rails above all is the network effect — a whole community of your friends, relatives, and countrymen already established in the target country and phoning home regularly to tell you how great it is and how they’ve got a job for you and a place to stay if you want to come.

There will certainly be a few who are stubborn and won’t leave home no matter how bad things are. But most will just keep coming until it stops being great; until the phone calls start getting regretful, until people start coming back home with stories of disappointment and loss, and it becomes clear to even the most cockeyed optimist that America has nothing for him. What kind of country do you think America would be at that point? But hey, we’d get a bigger economy out of it!

We don’t even need to do that

Being severe with a few will convince the many that we are serious.  You gotta be cruel to be kind.

America is not overpopulated. Simon was right, humans are the ultimate resource.

Wrong.  WHITES are the ultimate resource.  Blacks and browns are liabilities wherever they are, and they have been invaded to push Whites out.  That is why Whites are at sub-replacement fertility; they cannot afford to get away from “diversity” and make their own way, which they would in a country without “fair housing” and “civil rights” (paid for by them).

The problem with super well-educated Indians (like your father) is this. When they ascend into positions of wealth and influence, they begin importing large numbers of less-qualified coethnics. That reintroduces clan structures that are detrimental to other ethnic groups.

For example, lots of smart Indian engineers came to America from the 60s through the 90s, with some of them becoming senior managers in American corporations. When they had become established enough in management, they began to push for importing enormous hordes of H-1B programmers. Some of these H-1bs are pretty smart, but the majority are mediocre (or even incompetent at times). Coincidentally, when an Indian manager hires H-1bs, they somehow always come from same tribe (language, caste, etc.) as the manager.

Now there are enormous Indian clan structures that dominate much of the IT/software sector of the U.S. and other Anglo countries, with Europe now coming into their sight. Through ethnic networking, they’re capturing the industry and pushing out other races.

So even when you have smart Indians who contribute value, eventually they’re going to start importing hordes of their mediocre coethnics and taking over your society.

America is not overpopulated. Simon was right, humans are the ultimate resource. If America’s population were doubled, all else being equal, Americans would be richer. There would be twice as many consumers, but also twice as many producers, and economies of scale and faster innovation from twice as many innovators would make prices for the consumer cheaper for most goods. The problem with magic dirt believers like Yglesias is that when populations grow all is not equal and they ignore this.

The hell you say. People mostly are a negative resource, a few people are net positives.There are finite amounts of land and happiness comes from cheap land and expensive labor. The other way around is miserable for most people.

Cheap consumer goods are a bug, not a feature. Expensive but durable well made repairable consumer goods are a big feature. A family should get to regard their refrigerator and washer and dryer and vacuum cleaner as old friends, to be repaired instead of tossed out when broken. Clothing should be sewn up instead of tossed when minor repairs are needed, and used for rags or burned at the end of their long life, instead of given to exporters who undercut the local economies of indigenos and steezers and make a lot of profit.

I work in Silicon Valley and am a software engineer. I do not hide my opinions and am open with my co-workers about my desire to deport illegal immigrants, and cut legal immigration. My Indian — yes Indian, and I know their citizenship status because they bitch about it all the time — co-workers have actually had the gall to suggest my views were racist, and any discussion among Americans to restrict immigration was itself racist. I do not care about method of entry: if many non-citizen members of an immigrant group attempt to tell Americans what they can or cannot say in our native land, that group is an invasive group. I have met some outstanding Asians and Indians here, but overall living in California has made me far less immigration friendly than in my entire life. And that is solely due to the fact it is the first time in my life I have worked in environments where non-citizens were the majority. I am unimpressed.

On season one, episode six of CNN’s United Shades of America, “W. Kamau Bell is off to speak to the people of Portland, Oregon where the result of a massive influx of hipsters appears to be gentrification; he inquires as to how this has affected the local neighborhoods.”

The “hipsters” are white– one even is explicit about that. A number of the locals interviewed are blacks whose families have been in Portland for generations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Shades_of_America

America is not overpopulated. Simon was right, humans are the ultimate resource. If America’s population were doubled, all else being equal, Americans would be richer.

Bangladesh is richer than Iceland? By what standard?

They are called Californicators. And for good reason.

Dave, perhaps I misunderstood your original proposal—was it you imagining a consensus among Ron Unz’s gathered wonks and planners that 1 billion people in the US isn’t doable? To the contrary, “eminent” (i.e. collectivist/egalitarian) members of those professions would almost surely argue it is doable, and would lecture everyone that our standards of living may need to change ‘for the greater good.’

… “race realism” is currently outside the Overton Window, so it’s useful to have objections made within the Overton Window.

If Ron Unz’s name is publicly attached to your hypothetical roundtable, the Overton Window would not be a factor—Mr. Unz has proven willing to opine on and host discussions of controversial subjects.

I brought up HBD because “Diversity + Proximity = War” should be on the mind of every realistic planner. The ones who fear breaking the Overton Window or who inherently disagree with hierarchical HBD will not give honest beneficial counsel, thus rendering the whole exercise useless.

>upset the applecart
Somebody always has to kick out the JAMS!
Hapy new year Charles!

Shrinking glaciers = le richesse nouveau
Bjork Islant: come see our shrinking glaciers!
Bangla: With typical Asian efficiency, our glaciers are being already verymuch competely melted, like a dutiful wife upon a pyre! Therefore please do the needful (unless you are a you-know-who, peace be upon your name) and visit our fully melted glaciers!

I’m less interested in the details of the ‘fraud’, as you put it, than the way the Beeb spins it: “A Nobel laureate is being praised for retracting a scientific paper that was not reproducible.”

World-citizen = weltbürger. Cf. Immanuel Kant’s essay – Eternal Peace (a not quite right translation of the German title Zum Ewigen Frieden which is an (ironic!) hint a pub’s name, which was near – – – a graveyard (death as – eternal peace…). In this often misunderstood and misinterpreted essay, Kant thinks about global rights too – as something that constitutes the role of a person, which holds the world-citizenship and therefore is entitled to holding “Welbtbürgerrechte”.

Ahh – Kant was a mild capitalist and, if you will, even a bit (a bit!) progressive. He claimed that these world-rights entitle all humans to visit everybody else on earth. To visit meaning, in the words of Kant, to leave soon = to stay no longer than a few days).

Historically the Republicans have been the party of low regulation

Not all people on the right are chamber of commerce RINOs. Some regulation is good. I’m not sure what your overall point is… you like Democrats if they like density? You’re a one-issue voter into real estate speculation/development? Big yards give you panic attacks?

If you’re wondering where I stand, read this exchange between me and “Arilando” :

https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-most-eternal-force-in-the-known-universe-redlining/#comment-3625477 (#85, etc.)

As I call it, my inner 12-year-old.

The author describes immigration since the 1960s as an “invasion”, making no distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

Immigration substantial enough to alter the demographics of a country is an invasion. That is true whether it is legal or not. The barbarian tribes let in by the Roman Empire were invaders.

That is a racist slander. […] it’s too bad there is much racist crap posted by his readers, and that he highlights the crap.

It is absurd that natives of a nation experiencing demographic replacement like the United States have to face lectures about racism time and again, not only from native champions of open borders, but also from the newly arrived immigrants themselves and their children. Median household income for Indians or Indian Americans was $110k/$128k in 2016, compared with a white average of $67k, and yet American whites face constant accusations of racism, some of the most noxious from privileged descendants of East Asian and Indian immigrants.

“Racism” is nothing more than a slur for the ethnic self-awareness of European peoples; “racists” are people of European descent who vote or act on behalf of their ethnicity.

Was legal white immigration in the past an “invasion”?

Sure. But the consequences of European immigration to a primarily European-populated country were never going to be as drastic as the consequences of the mass importation of starkly different populations from the global south to Europe and North America.

Of course, the movie (which I have always liked), presented a different problem. They didn’t have any feelz and became inhuman as a result. Our problem is that we have too much feelz, especially of the wrong type. Sort of like how Huxley won out over Orwell, in the accuracy of his vision.

To every argument there is an opposite one equally as valid. Those resources, (that are not really wealth), are they infinite? What about AI? It’s now advanced beyond just the horizon. And a dozen people may jam themselves into a phone booth, but how’s the quality of life in there?

That is pretty hardcore.

What a perfect summary of the statist ideology, right down to the need for Soviet-style five year plans. The obvious environmental and social degradation stemming from out-of-control immigration doesn’t register on you. (“A few dozen central Americans wandering around on our side of the border” — I wish.)

One of the few hopeful signs is that more people are awakening to the severe downside of endless population growth. Not you, though. In your fertile brain, it’s not much of a problem to begin with, and will yield to technology and new social engineering programs. After all, if Nigeria has four times as many person units per square kilometer as the U.S., we should be working to catch up to Nigeria.

So you covered the “lots of open space left” cliché, but forgot to sign off with “we should be planning colonies on the moon and Mars for when the Earth is full, maybe around three or four trillion people.” Put it on your checklist for next time.

Expensive but durable well made repairable consumer goods are a big feature.

This is a function of labor economics. Making new goods in an automated factory with minimal and low skilled labor is cheap. Having a skilled tradesman come to your house and repair said goods is expensive. Manufacturers have discovered that consumers do not want (and will not pay extra for) durability – they would rather have something stylish and with up to date features.

For example, if you really want a durable washing machine you can buy a “Speed Queen”. These are pretty much like the washing machines of your youth, actually even better because they have commercial grade components (their main market is laundromats where the machines get heavy use and a lesser grade machine would wear out quickly). But the machines are of old fashioned design – they are “top loaders” while the market has mainly moved on to front loaders. They use more water and energy than more modern designs. They beat your clothes with an agitator instead of gently tumbling them as front loaders do. Being heavily built, they are not cheap. But if that’s what you want, you can still get it. But not many people do. If there was really a market for such things, then they would be big sellers, but it’s not – it’s 3 guys like you and the other 97 people are willing to trade durability for other things.

As I have said before, if you are really interested in keeping your appliances then learn basic appliance repair – it’s not that hard. Part ARE available for the most part. Even if the manufacturer stops making the parts (this can be an issue nowadays) there are often aftermarket parts or dealers on ebay who part out old machines. Doing your own labor really changes the economics – if you have to replace one or two $5 parts/year you can keep the older appliance forever. If you have to pay for two $200 service calls per year, you are better off buying a new one.

Oh jeez, that show looks painful to watch. (I personally haven’t watched CNN since 2007 and thus never heard of the show.)

There were bumper stickers years ago in Colorado that said, “Don’t Californicate Colorado”. They didn’t work.

Clothing should be sewn up instead of tossed when minor repairs are needed,

Nothing preventing you from doing that. I don’t think others should be forced via artificially expensive products to do that.

I was referring to per-capita GDP, which I think would increase with more people all else being equal.

> Rising populist opposition to “green initiatives” is currently one of the biggest threats to the progressive/neoliberal urban establishment.

I’m not sure if you’re saying that this refutes my point. I think what you write is true, but independent. True progressive faithful come from the educated elite, and these folks have not converted en masse to populism. My point is that they will not be swayed by arguments that immigration will lead to more US pollution.

> Immigration is a boiling frog issue …. [but] sentiment-driven green initiatives can effect people

They’re both mostly boiling frogs, in the grand scheme, but both can have acute effects on some people. For example, some who loses their job to cheaper immigrants.

I’m not sure what your overall point is… you like Democrats if they like density? You’re a one-issue voter into real estate speculation/development? Big yards give you panic attacks?

I like cheap housing. The whole argument about density is beside the point. It would be like if in the Soviet Union there was a big argument about whether you produce wheat or potatoes, with lots of name calling from the pro-potato and pro-wheat factions, arguments about nutrition, about efficiency, and no one thinks to suggest that maybe farmers ought to be able to farm what they want, and consumers ought to be able to eat what they want. For housing this is what I want, builders can build what they want, buyers and renters can buy and rent what they want. If you want a big yard, there will be a developer who will build you one.

Bell is occasionally entertaining and, to his credit, he lets other people talk. They can be worth listening to. Not as painful as you imagine.

I want to say you couldn’t pay me to watch CNN, but as it was piped into a public monitor at my former workplace, I literally was paid while, if not for, watching it.

As I have said before, if you are really interested in keeping your appliances then learn basic appliance repair.

How?

I was referring to per-capita GDP, which I think would increase with more people all else being equal.

All else is never equal!

I don’t think you realized how much government policy influences these situations. There are building and zoning codes that determine minimum lot sizes and minimum quality of construction. The government has to build and maintain (or not) paved roads and highways that take you out to that big lot in the suburbs and subsidize (or not) mass transit. Their policies influence whether the gas in your car will be cheap or expensive so you will be able to afford the commute (or not). The tax code determines whether you can deduct your mortgage interest and therefore afford that house. Policy influences the interest rates on that mortgage and whether the government will guaranty that loan. Government policy (and the manpower needs of wartime) influenced whether Negroes would leave the South and make the downtown urban areas of our big cities uninhabitable for white people. On and on. There are no “private decisions” in the housing market – that train left the station a LOOONG time ago. If you think that you are making purely your own decisions (which just happen to be the same as the decisions that millions of other people all decide to make, like when all the white people of Detroit all decided to leave Detroit at the same time) you are deluding yourself.

There are building and zoning codes that determine minimum lot sizes and minimum quality of construction.

Get rid of them.

The government has to build and maintain (or not) paved roads and highways that take you out to that big lot in the suburbs and subsidize (or not) mass transit.

Use gas taxes or road pricing to pay for the roads, and fares to pay for mass transit.

The tax code determines whether you can deduct your mortgage interest and therefore afford that house.

Get rid of those deductions.

Policy influences the interest rates on that mortgage and whether the government will guaranty that loan.

Stop doing that.

There are no “private decisions” in the housing market – that train left the station a LOOONG time ago.

One could have said the same thing about the Soviet Union. There’s so much government intervention a free market is impossible.

you think that you are making purely your own decisions (which just happen to be the same as the decisions that millions of other people all decide to make, like when all the white people of Detroit all decided to leave Detroit at the same time

Look, we all know why they left Detroit, ok? I don’t see how that knowledge is relevant here.

Those populations will be unable to create conditions to start increasing again. They lack the essential attributes.

Nope. They never really started decreasing in the first place.

Ye olde Credo Corvi strikes again: You see, at one time the Wops and the Micks were reviled in the US, but they turned out okay. Ergo, the US must have no borders.

Yo, Corvi! I’m sure you’ve seen the Modelo beer-flavored water ads on TV peddling your non-sequitur Credo, panning from a No Irish Need Apply sign to a white-hispanic conquistadora bartender. So racist!

I saw a bit of recent CNN at a diner (I was the only one paying any attention to it) and nothing I could say would be enough to describe the sixty-seconds-per-minute Trump delusion panic. It was the only thing that was discussed, and it was only discussed in one tone. As a result I believe the man-on-the-street videos showing “educated” blue metropolitans who honestly think that Trump is no longer the president as a result of Nancy Pelosi’s abortive stunt.

I don’t think others should be forced via artificially expensive products to do that.

Population growth raises land prices– they’re not making any more of it, as Will Rogers or whoever said. Growth by immigration rather than birth is artificial.

Land to live in is thus an artificially expensive product.

The same people babble about the sea rising and global warming want a billion Americans; insanity. … Until Trump the GOP was wedded to the ideal that any GDP growth was good. But that isn’t a measure of quality of life.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

My recollection is that in the early days of the environmental movement, the term “quality of life” was used often. Today it is apparently quaint and irrelevant to most. People have been conned into thinking GDP, growth, and technology are all that matters. So we get more of those and less quality of life.

“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.” — Edward Abbey

There are building and zoning codes that determine minimum lot sizes and minimum quality of construction.

Get rid of them.

Get rid of minimum quality? You exposed yourself there.

The code has been so refined and standardized over the years that Americans now expect most of it with or without the law. Americans, that is. What you want is to legalize favelas and squatter camps. For aliens.

Which would be harmless as long as nobody took advantage of it. Large portions of Latin America, Africa, and Asia would be fine with taking advantage of it.

Minimal standards for housing would take care of themselves if we had more than minimal standards for immigrants.

Urban, and even suburban, living brings regulation, whether you like it or not, whether it’s necessary or not. You can’t hang your clothes out, sunbathe nude, let your grass grow, park on your lawn (assuming you have one), fire a pistol at animal pests, and all sorts of other things.

With more neighbors, there are more externalities. Anything-goes will not go, not if others have to bear the costs.

It’s not that your libertarian argument fails. It’s that it isn’t as libertarian as you imagine.

It’s just shifting the costs.

W doesn’t know anything and, in fact, he doesn’t even suspect anything.

New York Times, July 9, 1964—–

U.S. Population Estimated At 200 Million by 1967

WASHINGTON, July 8 (UPI) The population of the United states which passed 192 mil­lion recently, will hit 200 mil­lion sometime in 1967 and may exceed 400 million by the year 2010. the Census Bureau said today.

The bureau released revised population projections based on various assumptions about the number of children women will have. The revised projections indicate a total United States population of 206 to 211 million in 1970, of 248 to 276 million in 1985, and of 322 to 438 mil­lion in 2010.
========================

How quaint. The assumption was American women would continue the high fertility rates that had been seen since 1946.

Hmmmmm? It’s not as if anything changed much beginning in the mid-1960s. And not just Teddy’s ham-handed legislative fix to guarantee a pipeline of Sons of Erin to The Bay State and cement his seat in the Senate forever.

https://www.nytimes.com/1964/07/09/us-population-estimated-at-200-million-by-1967.html

BTW…Thought just came to me…..

1946 must have been a heck of a year. It surely wasn’t nonstop wine and roses (I assume all iSteve readers have seen “The Best Years of Our Lives”) .

…But overall, I suspect it might have been nicknamed “The Year of the Squeaking Boxsprings”……LOL

Zum Ewigen Frieden