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Ellen Pao and Buddy Fletcher Are Back
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A few years ago, Ellen Pao’s discrimination lawsuit against a Silicon Valley venture capital fund was heavily promoted in the national press as proving that the only reason most tech founders are male is because of bias. But then she lost bigly.

Now Pao is divorcing her gay black disgraced financier husband Alphonse “Buddy” Fletcher. After all these years, I still can’t find a photo online of these two in the same picture where they weren’t photoshopped together. The New York Post has the details:

Buddy Fletcher and Ellen Pao’s marriage ending with mudslinging and acrimony
By Carleton English and Emmett Berg August 16, 2019 | 10:34pm

Buddy Fletcher is so broke he can’t afford his divorce from Ellen Pao, The Post has learned.

The former high-flying hedge fund manager — who once rubbed elbows with Lauren Bacall and Roberta Flack — has no lawyer and is representing himself in a divorce from Pao, the former interim CEO of Reddit. He claims in court papers that the divorce, which is ongoing, left him “homeless” at one point, including a period of living in his car.

The couple — known as much for Pao’s Silicon Valley gender discrimination claims as Fletcher’s financial downfall — have been slowly working toward dissolution of their marriage in San Francisco state court since 2017, but they appear no closer to the end than they did two years ago. …

Fletcher, whose worth was once estimated at $150 million, made headlines in 2011 for suing the Dakota, where John Lennon was shot. The Harvard graduate had already been approved to buy four apartments in the Dakota, including one for his mother. At the time he filed suit he claimed he was refused permission to buy a fifth apartment because he’s African-American.

The case was ultimately dismissed — but not before it was reported that the Dakota rejected Fletcher for a fifth apartment because of his investment firm’s “apparent lack of profitability.”

Not long after that, Fletcher started facing questions from investors, including three Louisiana pension funds that had invested with Fletcher Asset Management on promises of double-digit returns. That kicked off a series of legal battles and bankruptcy filings that ended up detonating Fletcher’s reputation as a financial wizard.

After his main fund filed for bankruptcy in 2012, it emerged that he had been insolvent for years and had misspent investors’ money, including $8 million to produce “Violet & Daisy,” a film directed by his Oscar-winning writer brother.

Those details came out in a 2013 report by the Manhattan federal bankruptcy trustee, who likened the case to “a Ponzi scheme.”

Pao, 49, lost her explosive sexual harassment suit against venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins in 2015.

Days before the filing, she moved out of the luxury apartment they shared in downtown San Francisco into a new place she had just purchased at the Ritz-Carlton Club and Residences on Market Street. …

Fletcher has also asked the court to order Pao to keep distance from him, his home and their daughter, alleging Pao “has threatened more than once to flush our daughter’s fish down the toilet as a punishment which led to our daughter crying.” …

The former hedgie has argued for spousal support on the grounds that he supported Pao for the first few years of the marriage — and now it was her turn to support him.

Pao’s “income has averaged more than $2,000,000 per year for the past three years,” he said. By contrast, he was “homeless and without counsel, at risk of losing my physical health,” he told the court. …

“This case is not really about support,” Pao told the judge earlier this year. “Rather, it is about Buddy’s need for money to pay off the judgment against him and his businesses,” she said, referring to a $213 million judgment issued against him by a New York state court, as well as a $1.5 million judgment by the IRS. …

His Connecticut castle failed to sell for years, and was recently sold by the bank for $1.6 million — down from the $6 million it was listed at in 2017, records show. …

Pao, who is now the CEO of her own diversity nonprofit, Project Include, tried to keep all the mud-slinging private by asking the court to seal the case, but was denied.

 
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  1. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Pao, who is now the CEO of her own diversity nonprofit, Project Include, tried to keep all the mud-slinging private by asking the court to seal the case, but was denied.

    Denied!

  2. Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    "Nonprofit" doesn't rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can't distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I'd say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.
    , @Mr McKenna

    Pao’s “income has averaged more than $2,000,000 per year for the past three years”
     
    Race huckstering has become very profitable in the Current Year.

    The feminism/sexism angle is really just another subset.

    To eah: no, incompetent males do not get promoted.

    , @eah
    Project Include claims to be a 501(c)(3) organization (link) -- last avail 990-EZ filing is for 2016, ie 3 years ago (link) -- under "Contributions, gifts, grants" it lists only $150k -- so if her income has averaged $2m/year (according to Fletcher; that's what he says), then it almost certainly does not come from Project Include.
    , @Hypnotoad666
    In her defense, it sounds like she actually has a lot of experience with "nonprofit."

    She just failed to realize at the time that venture capital funds are more interested in the whole profit thing. She's definitely found her level now, though.

    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    "What am I missing?"

    An Asian vagina?
    , @Jim Don Bob

    What am I missing?
     
    Eh, the fact that you are a Badwhite, perhaps?
    , @William Badwhite

    gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit?
     
    Alleged by the gay black dude. I suspect reality is much lower.
    , @Jack D
    She was also the interim CEO of Reddit. I suspect that is where the bulk of the $ came from.
    , @Stebbing Heuer
    To be fair, Chairwoman Pao has only ever run non-profits.
  3. Feelgood story of the day. Thanks iSteve!

    • Agree: Kronos, slumber_j, fish
  4. Asian feminist Pao has more powerful diversity Pokemon Points than a gay Black swindler. Question is, how long until Pao strong arms her way into another CEO position? Or are they through with her?

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    At this point only an ignorant fool would hire Pao for any position, even down to the level of burger flipping in a new franchise. The woman is toxic, clearly suffering from multiple Axis II mental disorders, demonstrably incompetent at anything she's put her hand to, and likely to cost her employer big bucks defending against a frivolous Pao-initiated lawsuit.
  5. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    “Nonprofit” doesn’t rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can’t distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I’d say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Don't forget "emergency reserves" (that can be loaned out to board members at attractive rates) and "non-cash compensation" such as housing and medical insurance of the type that 98 percent of the population in the industrialized world doesn't have.
    , @Bill P
    I hope Buddy hangs in there and gets lifetime alimony. If he and Pau really do have a daughter together and he has custody she's going to end up paying him a lot of money anyway, but I'm hoping he gets the alimony, too. The sweet thing is that she won't be able to deduct either the child support or alimony due to the latest tax bill.

    Maybe she'll get a taste of what it's like to be an ordinary cishet white male deplorable.
    , @Lurker

    He could try the diversity racket himself.
     
    One suspects that may have been part of his strategy all along.
    , @slumber_j

    He could try the diversity racket himself.
     
    Oh, he already has--over and over. He has a history of suing for race discrimination: the Dakota fiasco is only the most recent example.
    , @bomag

    ...you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.
     
    A hallmark of our time is the Foudation/NGO/non-profit. We've built quite a subculture of these things. There is usually a quote from three of them in a story about race/immigration/etc.

    Locally, I read an effusive piece about one of these education "non-profits" working in our area, about how they've made such an impact. I'd never heard of them until reading this puff piece.
    , @njguy73

    “Nonprofit” doesn’t rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can’t distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

     

    Two words: Morris. Dees.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    “Nonprofit” doesn’t rule out people making a lot of money.
     
    Gimme an S...
    Gimme a P...
    Gimme an L...
    Gimme a...
  6. We need really need some way to kick out the parasites.

    I’ve mentioned this before: the nation state–a people with a defined territory they control for themselves–is one of the greatest social/political inventions ever. From it flows all sorts of good things like the possibility of republican government and freedom.

    However, unlike tribes of old–where you just kicked out the a*holes–one flaw with the system is that the nation is–in theory–comprised of the people physically there in the terroritory. So there’s no easy way to kick out the parasites once they latch on. This problem becomes worse and worse, as you articulate various rights–rights that a self-governing people indeed do want to have.

    I don’t have a big desire to kill these people, nor have camps for them. I just don’t want to live with them–have them feeding off me. There ought to be a way to just vote them off the island. “Hey we don’t want to live with you assholes! Bye!”

    There will be some corner cases, where people can’t agree. But even beyond obvious criminals, some people, like these Ellen Pao and Buddy Fletcher characters, just trumpet their utter parasitism. People should have the right to just toss such people out.

    • Replies: @danand

    I don’t have a big desire to kill these people, nor have camps for them. I just don’t want to live with them–have them feeding off me. There ought to be a way to just vote them off the island. “Hey we don’t want to live with you assholes! Bye!”
     

    AnotherDad, I was a bit surprised that Jordon Peterson in a recent presentation/discussion uttered the words that perhaps Silicon Valley needed to be bombed. I’m sure he said it in jest?

    Usually I can only take Dr Peterson in small doses, but this event surprised; as I watched all the way thru. Likely a combination of his act becoming more polished and my resistances weakening:

    https://youtu.be/vdHJjbHwR38
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    "We need really need some way to kick out the parasites."


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3FpSpJzdrtI/UD7CyiK1qtI/AAAAAAAAFRc/VxMURlCs1wQ/s1600/tumblr_m5cu224QI71rwcc6bo1_500.gif
    , @Cortes
    Banishment was a frequent sanction enforced up until at least the late 18th Century in Scotland. Some years ago I had cause to read through the first few years of surviving issues of the “Glasgow Advertiser” (later to become the Herald) and there was no shortage of banishments.

    See also:

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/exile-law

    , @Steve in Greensboro
    I've spent time in Switzerland during the 90s and oughts and my recollection was that some of the more desirable towns operated rather like country clubs. You could move in on a trial basis, the townsfolk could get to know you, but you could not live there permanently unless the Gemeinde (municipality) approved your being a citizen of the town. If you turned out not to fit in, you were not approved and had to go.
  7. They deserve each other.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    An idea for Steve's Pacific Opera Project: a modern reworking of Aida where the lovers are stand-ins for Ellen and Buddy. Maybe instead of Egypt invading Nubia it's some big tech company acquiring a smaller one. Maybe a bricked Tesla Model S stands in for the crypt.
    , @Anonymous
    Candidly it's too disgusting to even contemplate for more than a few seconds.
    , @MBlanc46
    My immediate thought, but I see that you beat me to it, Kylie.
  8. @Kylie
    They deserve each other.

    An idea for Steve’s Pacific Opera Project: a modern reworking of Aida where the lovers are stand-ins for Ellen and Buddy. Maybe instead of Egypt invading Nubia it’s some big tech company acquiring a smaller one. Maybe a bricked Tesla Model S stands in for the crypt.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Dave Pinsen:

    An alternate proposal for Steve's opera utilizing a contemporary Yale Law School cast. Amy Chua portraying NE Asian Brunhilda Ellen Pao. Jed Rubenfeld portraying kowtowed Buddy Fletcher. The opera's manuscript is currently a work in progress.

  9. After all these years, I still can’t find a photo online of these two in the same picture where they weren’t photoshopped together.

    Oh well, it’s for the best — it would only make her grandparents cry.

    But then she lost bigly.

    Which doesn’t necessarily mean her own particular complaint didn’t have merit (I didn’t follow the case so I don’t really know; even someone who did follow the case closely probably doesn’t really know) — the state also “lost bigly” when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.

    Wikipedia summarizes her situation as follows:

    Ellen Pao is a Chinese American woman from New Jersey. She has a bachelor’s degree in Electrical Engineering from Princeton University, a juris doctor from Harvard Law School and an MBA from Harvard Business School. … In 2005 Pao joined Kleiner Perkins as technical chief of staff for John Doerr, a senior partner, a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software. In 2007 she became a junior investing partner with Ted Schlein as her boss, but was eventually passed over for a senior partner position. According to Pao, she had the job title of junior partner from her date of hiring and was promised an opportunity to move into an investing role. Doerr, who has expressed awareness of the gender gap at venture capital firms, mentored Pao, liberally providing feedback, but, in the end, agreed with the other senior partners who had made negative evaluations of her work at the firm. It was Pao’s contention that men with similar profiles were, nevertheless, promoted.On May 10, 2012, Pao filed a gender discrimination lawsuit against her employer

    Question: Was it the “her” part of “her work”, ie perhaps her personality, or even appearance, that was most decisive in these “negative evaluations”? — if not “negative”, then not positive enough anyway.

    So after 7 years of basically not being promoted, perhaps more because of how others viewed her personality/demeanor (or even appearance) rather than the quality of her work (? — as she saw it), and apparently seeing similarly-qualified male colleagues (with different personalities) promoted (were any similarly-qualified females promoted?; again, I did not follow the case), rather than accept what she saw as unfair treatment and eg look elsewhere and/or resign, she decided to sue.

    I have some sympathy for her in the general scenario described above — because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement — whether or not such (normal, honestly) subjective employer evaluations are legally actionable is another matter.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You left out the part where she slept with her boss a few times, then accused him of harrasment. Presumably attempting a quid pro Pao maneuver before realizing he didnt have the clout required for her endgame and flailing off into a conventional diversity rackets shakedown set piece.

    Only cost her legal fees so why not take a few shots ?
    , @dearieme
    a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software.

    You might almost think that the job spec was written with her in mind.
    , @William Badwhite

    because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement
     
    "Personality, demeanor, and even appearance" are very much part of "competence" in that business.

    They're reviewing countless business plans on a weekly basis. You need to be able to sift through 50 and quickly throw out 49 of them. Then then for the one you (might) feel strongly about, sell your partners and employers on it. If they get on board and the firm proceeds towards an investment, you then need to sell the entrepreneur that approached you in the first place on why your firm and your proposed investment amount and your proposed valuation and proposed capital structure are the best match for him/her. Often there are other VC's investing with you and you need to interact with them too.

    Its not a job where some socially awkward, shrinking violet, weird Asian woman is likely to be successful.

    You see it all the time in PE/VC - the really smart spread-sheet jockey does great at analysis, etc but fails to advance past a certain level, because past a certain level the ability to interact with other really smart people with big egos and have them see you as someone they can not only trust, but that they want to do business with for the next 5-10 years becomes important - more important than modeling and quant stuff.

    Also fund-raising is the life blood of any VC. The ability to interact with potential investors and have them feel confident that their pension fund, endowment, foundation, family office, or whatever capital will be safe in your hands becomes important. Again, not a good role for some weird Asian grifter.

    , @Jack D
    The wiki doesn't give the full picture (maybe Pao or her supporters wrote it - wikipedia has a leftist tilt). As you say, personality, demeanor and appearance all come into play in any job situation, especially at this super elite level where you have to have it ALL.

    However, introducing predatory females like Pao adds a whole 'nother level of sexual politics (unavailable to men unless their bosses are gay) when she tried to sleep her way to the top. When this gambit failed she resorted to lawsuits. A nightmare employee - like Fatal Attraction in an office setting.

    In past times, a woman like Pao would have been called "an adventuress" (as Steve likes to say) but in her lawsuit and the national press that it attracted, she was portrayed as some sort of feminist hero. When that failed before the jury (which unlike the readership of Wikipedia was presented with both sides of the story) the Dem Party/Feminist/NY Times machine dropped her the same way they drop all of their other failed heroes - Machado, Blasey-Ford, etc.
    , @Jack D

    the state also “lost bigly” when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.
     
    OJ had the "dream team" and a handpicked, can't lose mostly black jury vs. a bunch of incompetent state prosecutors and a clown judge. Maybe if Ellen Pao had 12 Chinese women on her jury she would have won too.

    Kleiner and Pao both had top notch legal teams and a fairly chosen jury so it was an even match and Pao lost.
    , @J.Ross
    I would bet that her degree was totally unused in the course of her career except to signal class because of where she got it. How did she call upon her "electrical engineering" skills when she was managing Reddit? She is one of these peopls who gets an A on the test by swotting, but isn't really interested in the skills or the career, and so makes it to the office with a lot of meeting-filler intended to avoid a real test.
  10. @Dave Pinsen
    An idea for Steve's Pacific Opera Project: a modern reworking of Aida where the lovers are stand-ins for Ellen and Buddy. Maybe instead of Egypt invading Nubia it's some big tech company acquiring a smaller one. Maybe a bricked Tesla Model S stands in for the crypt.

    Dave Pinsen:

    An alternate proposal for Steve’s opera utilizing a contemporary Yale Law School cast. Amy Chua portraying NE Asian Brunhilda Ellen Pao. Jed Rubenfeld portraying kowtowed Buddy Fletcher. The opera’s manuscript is currently a work in progress.

  11. If I’m so smart how come I’m not getting a nice, fat, juicy salary from my own diversity non-profit?

    • Replies: @El Dato
    I'm thinking, I'm thinking.

    I don't like to push myself as the paragon of world-saving superiority, maybe?
    , @Kronos
    You possess dignity and self respect? Your not going to grovel on all fours and shake your booty at Uncle Sam for grant money and non-profit status right? RIGHT?!
    , @Alden
    Because you didn’t form a non profit charitable or educational tax exempt foundation and hire a commission grant writer.

    It’s the greatest scam around.
  12. @AnotherDad
    We need really need some way to kick out the parasites.

    I've mentioned this before: the nation state--a people with a defined territory they control for themselves--is one of the greatest social/political inventions ever. From it flows all sorts of good things like the possibility of republican government and freedom.

    However, unlike tribes of old--where you just kicked out the a*holes--one flaw with the system is that the nation is--in theory--comprised of the people physically there in the terroritory. So there's no easy way to kick out the parasites once they latch on. This problem becomes worse and worse, as you articulate various rights--rights that a self-governing people indeed do want to have.

    I don't have a big desire to kill these people, nor have camps for them. I just don't want to live with them--have them feeding off me. There ought to be a way to just vote them off the island. "Hey we don't want to live with you assholes! Bye!"

    There will be some corner cases, where people can't agree. But even beyond obvious criminals, some people, like these Ellen Pao and Buddy Fletcher characters, just trumpet their utter parasitism. People should have the right to just toss such people out.

    I don’t have a big desire to kill these people, nor have camps for them. I just don’t want to live with them–have them feeding off me. There ought to be a way to just vote them off the island. “Hey we don’t want to live with you assholes! Bye!”

    AnotherDad, I was a bit surprised that Jordon Peterson in a recent presentation/discussion uttered the words that perhaps Silicon Valley needed to be bombed. I’m sure he said it in jest?

    Usually I can only take Dr Peterson in small doses, but this event surprised; as I watched all the way thru. Likely a combination of his act becoming more polished and my resistances weakening:

    • Replies: @Clyde
    Thanks...downloading this into my MP3 player right now. To listen to this weekend.
  13. Anon[397] • Disclaimer says:

    Pao is introverted, a bookworm , and not socially adept. She a type that is easily manipulated by men. She’s probably still a virgin. Japanese Olympic bronze medalist in the marathon Yuko Arimori was the same type, years of training, little social experience, then she married a homo American with lots of debts. They separated after a month but didn’t divorce for 12 years. You also see this type showing up in the porno industry.

  14. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    Pao’s “income has averaged more than $2,000,000 per year for the past three years”

    Race huckstering has become very profitable in the Current Year.

    The feminism/sexism angle is really just another subset.

    To eah: no, incompetent males do not get promoted.

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @SFG
    They do, just not for that. Nepotism and cronyism will always be with us. The diversity angle just gives women and minorities an extra edge.
  15. @International Jew
    "Nonprofit" doesn't rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can't distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I'd say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.

    Don’t forget “emergency reserves” (that can be loaned out to board members at attractive rates) and “non-cash compensation” such as housing and medical insurance of the type that 98 percent of the population in the industrialized world doesn’t have.

  16. @International Jew
    "Nonprofit" doesn't rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can't distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I'd say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.

    I hope Buddy hangs in there and gets lifetime alimony. If he and Pau really do have a daughter together and he has custody she’s going to end up paying him a lot of money anyway, but I’m hoping he gets the alimony, too. The sweet thing is that she won’t be able to deduct either the child support or alimony due to the latest tax bill.

    Maybe she’ll get a taste of what it’s like to be an ordinary cishet white male deplorable.

  17. @Clyde
    If I'm so smart how come I'm not getting a nice, fat, juicy salary from my own diversity non-profit?

    I’m thinking, I’m thinking.

    I don’t like to push myself as the paragon of world-saving superiority, maybe?

  18. If you can’t avoid marrying a scam artist, you’re probably not qualified to be a senior partner. Sorry.

    Great post.

  19. @Kylie
    They deserve each other.

    Candidly it’s too disgusting to even contemplate for more than a few seconds.

  20. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @eah
    After all these years, I still can’t find a photo online of these two in the same picture where they weren’t photoshopped together.

    Oh well, it's for the best -- it would only make her grandparents cry.

    But then she lost bigly.

    Which doesn't necessarily mean her own particular complaint didn't have merit (I didn't follow the case so I don't really know; even someone who did follow the case closely probably doesn't really know) -- the state also "lost bigly" when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.

    Wikipedia summarizes her situation as follows:

    Ellen Pao is a Chinese American woman from New Jersey. She has a bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering from Princeton University, a juris doctor from Harvard Law School and an MBA from Harvard Business School. ... In 2005 Pao joined Kleiner Perkins as technical chief of staff for John Doerr, a senior partner, a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software. In 2007 she became a junior investing partner with Ted Schlein as her boss, but was eventually passed over for a senior partner position. According to Pao, she had the job title of junior partner from her date of hiring and was promised an opportunity to move into an investing role. Doerr, who has expressed awareness of the gender gap at venture capital firms, mentored Pao, liberally providing feedback, but, in the end, agreed with the other senior partners who had made negative evaluations of her work at the firm. It was Pao's contention that men with similar profiles were, nevertheless, promoted. ... On May 10, 2012, Pao filed a gender discrimination lawsuit against her employer ...

    Question: Was it the "her" part of "her work", ie perhaps her personality, or even appearance, that was most decisive in these "negative evaluations"? -- if not "negative", then not positive enough anyway.

    So after 7 years of basically not being promoted, perhaps more because of how others viewed her personality/demeanor (or even appearance) rather than the quality of her work (? -- as she saw it), and apparently seeing similarly-qualified male colleagues (with different personalities) promoted (were any similarly-qualified females promoted?; again, I did not follow the case), rather than accept what she saw as unfair treatment and eg look elsewhere and/or resign, she decided to sue.

    I have some sympathy for her in the general scenario described above -- because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement -- whether or not such (normal, honestly) subjective employer evaluations are legally actionable is another matter.

    You left out the part where she slept with her boss a few times, then accused him of harrasment. Presumably attempting a quid pro Pao maneuver before realizing he didnt have the clout required for her endgame and flailing off into a conventional diversity rackets shakedown set piece.

    Only cost her legal fees so why not take a few shots ?

    • Replies: @eah
    You left out the part

    I didn't leave anything out in the sense you seem to imply, ie intentionally omitted -- as I specifically said, I did not follow the case, and do not know whom she may have slept with -- I just pointed out that generally, in the workplace merit/competence is often not the only or most important criterion for deciding who gets promoted and who doesn't: anyone who has worked in an organization above a certain size has seen this -- also studies have shown that eg tall men and people who are seen as physically attractive are more likely to get hired and promoted -- and that cannot always be due to qualifications and competence.
    , @Cortes
    “quid pro Pao” is magnificent.
  21. @Clyde
    If I'm so smart how come I'm not getting a nice, fat, juicy salary from my own diversity non-profit?

    You possess dignity and self respect? Your not going to grovel on all fours and shake your booty at Uncle Sam for grant money and non-profit status right? RIGHT?!

  22. @International Jew
    "Nonprofit" doesn't rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can't distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I'd say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.

    He could try the diversity racket himself.

    One suspects that may have been part of his strategy all along.

  23. This is like schadenfreude porn, hopefully one or both of them pulls a Bourdain pretty soon

    • Replies: @Clyde

    pulls a Bourdain
     
    Pulls an Epstein, what the difference anyway.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Or as Kissinger reportedly said about the 80s Iran-Iraq war, "It's too bad they both can't lose."
    , @TomSchmidt
    Schadenfreude porn is a great encapsulation of it.
  24. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    Project Include claims to be a 501(c)(3) organization (link) — last avail 990-EZ filing is for 2016, ie 3 years ago (link) — under “Contributions, gifts, grants” it lists only $150k — so if her income has averaged $2m/year (according to Fletcher; that’s what he says), then it almost certainly does not come from Project Include.

  25. @Anonymous
    You left out the part where she slept with her boss a few times, then accused him of harrasment. Presumably attempting a quid pro Pao maneuver before realizing he didnt have the clout required for her endgame and flailing off into a conventional diversity rackets shakedown set piece.

    Only cost her legal fees so why not take a few shots ?

    You left out the part

    I didn’t leave anything out in the sense you seem to imply, ie intentionally omitted — as I specifically said, I did not follow the case, and do not know whom she may have slept with — I just pointed out that generally, in the workplace merit/competence is often not the only or most important criterion for deciding who gets promoted and who doesn’t: anyone who has worked in an organization above a certain size has seen this — also studies have shown that eg tall men and people who are seen as physically attractive are more likely to get hired and promoted — and that cannot always be due to qualifications and competence.

  26. @danand

    I don’t have a big desire to kill these people, nor have camps for them. I just don’t want to live with them–have them feeding off me. There ought to be a way to just vote them off the island. “Hey we don’t want to live with you assholes! Bye!”
     

    AnotherDad, I was a bit surprised that Jordon Peterson in a recent presentation/discussion uttered the words that perhaps Silicon Valley needed to be bombed. I’m sure he said it in jest?

    Usually I can only take Dr Peterson in small doses, but this event surprised; as I watched all the way thru. Likely a combination of his act becoming more polished and my resistances weakening:

    https://youtu.be/vdHJjbHwR38

    Thanks…downloading this into my MP3 player right now. To listen to this weekend.

  27. @Herbert West
    This is like schadenfreude porn, hopefully one or both of them pulls a Bourdain pretty soon

    pulls a Bourdain

    Pulls an Epstein, what the difference anyway.

  28. @eah
    After all these years, I still can’t find a photo online of these two in the same picture where they weren’t photoshopped together.

    Oh well, it's for the best -- it would only make her grandparents cry.

    But then she lost bigly.

    Which doesn't necessarily mean her own particular complaint didn't have merit (I didn't follow the case so I don't really know; even someone who did follow the case closely probably doesn't really know) -- the state also "lost bigly" when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.

    Wikipedia summarizes her situation as follows:

    Ellen Pao is a Chinese American woman from New Jersey. She has a bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering from Princeton University, a juris doctor from Harvard Law School and an MBA from Harvard Business School. ... In 2005 Pao joined Kleiner Perkins as technical chief of staff for John Doerr, a senior partner, a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software. In 2007 she became a junior investing partner with Ted Schlein as her boss, but was eventually passed over for a senior partner position. According to Pao, she had the job title of junior partner from her date of hiring and was promised an opportunity to move into an investing role. Doerr, who has expressed awareness of the gender gap at venture capital firms, mentored Pao, liberally providing feedback, but, in the end, agreed with the other senior partners who had made negative evaluations of her work at the firm. It was Pao's contention that men with similar profiles were, nevertheless, promoted. ... On May 10, 2012, Pao filed a gender discrimination lawsuit against her employer ...

    Question: Was it the "her" part of "her work", ie perhaps her personality, or even appearance, that was most decisive in these "negative evaluations"? -- if not "negative", then not positive enough anyway.

    So after 7 years of basically not being promoted, perhaps more because of how others viewed her personality/demeanor (or even appearance) rather than the quality of her work (? -- as she saw it), and apparently seeing similarly-qualified male colleagues (with different personalities) promoted (were any similarly-qualified females promoted?; again, I did not follow the case), rather than accept what she saw as unfair treatment and eg look elsewhere and/or resign, she decided to sue.

    I have some sympathy for her in the general scenario described above -- because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement -- whether or not such (normal, honestly) subjective employer evaluations are legally actionable is another matter.

    a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software.

    You might almost think that the job spec was written with her in mind.

  29. @Mr McKenna

    Pao’s “income has averaged more than $2,000,000 per year for the past three years”
     
    Race huckstering has become very profitable in the Current Year.

    The feminism/sexism angle is really just another subset.

    To eah: no, incompetent males do not get promoted.

    They do, just not for that. Nepotism and cronyism will always be with us. The diversity angle just gives women and minorities an extra edge.

  30. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    In her defense, it sounds like she actually has a lot of experience with “nonprofit.”

    She just failed to realize at the time that venture capital funds are more interested in the whole profit thing. She’s definitely found her level now, though.

  31. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    “What am I missing?”

    An Asian vagina?

  32. @AnotherDad
    We need really need some way to kick out the parasites.

    I've mentioned this before: the nation state--a people with a defined territory they control for themselves--is one of the greatest social/political inventions ever. From it flows all sorts of good things like the possibility of republican government and freedom.

    However, unlike tribes of old--where you just kicked out the a*holes--one flaw with the system is that the nation is--in theory--comprised of the people physically there in the terroritory. So there's no easy way to kick out the parasites once they latch on. This problem becomes worse and worse, as you articulate various rights--rights that a self-governing people indeed do want to have.

    I don't have a big desire to kill these people, nor have camps for them. I just don't want to live with them--have them feeding off me. There ought to be a way to just vote them off the island. "Hey we don't want to live with you assholes! Bye!"

    There will be some corner cases, where people can't agree. But even beyond obvious criminals, some people, like these Ellen Pao and Buddy Fletcher characters, just trumpet their utter parasitism. People should have the right to just toss such people out.

    “We need really need some way to kick out the parasites.”

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    I used up my Agree for Another Dad’s comment, so all I’ve got for you, Mike, is a, “Yes!”
  33. @International Jew
    "Nonprofit" doesn't rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can't distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I'd say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.

    He could try the diversity racket himself.

    Oh, he already has–over and over. He has a history of suing for race discrimination: the Dakota fiasco is only the most recent example.

  34. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    What am I missing?

    Eh, the fact that you are a Badwhite, perhaps?

  35. @International Jew
    "Nonprofit" doesn't rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can't distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I'd say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.

    …you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    A hallmark of our time is the Foudation/NGO/non-profit. We’ve built quite a subculture of these things. There is usually a quote from three of them in a story about race/immigration/etc.

    Locally, I read an effusive piece about one of these education “non-profits” working in our area, about how they’ve made such an impact. I’d never heard of them until reading this puff piece.

    • Replies: @NYMOM
    Yes, and the sad thing about these 'Foundations/NGOs/Non-profits' is that most of the money raised winds up going into the salaries and overhead for the people working for them...very little for the actual 'cause' people donated for originally...

    Actually I was reading recently about a project in Haiti that raised millions presumbly for building housing after the earthquake...last I heard they were being audited after building about 7 or 8 actual houses...

    They should be banned from most countries...
  36. @Herbert West
    This is like schadenfreude porn, hopefully one or both of them pulls a Bourdain pretty soon

    Or as Kissinger reportedly said about the 80s Iran-Iraq war, “It’s too bad they both can’t lose.”

  37. @International Jew
    "Nonprofit" doesn't rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can't distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I'd say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.

    “Nonprofit” doesn’t rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can’t distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    Two words: Morris. Dees.

  38. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit?

    Alleged by the gay black dude. I suspect reality is much lower.

  39. @eah
    After all these years, I still can’t find a photo online of these two in the same picture where they weren’t photoshopped together.

    Oh well, it's for the best -- it would only make her grandparents cry.

    But then she lost bigly.

    Which doesn't necessarily mean her own particular complaint didn't have merit (I didn't follow the case so I don't really know; even someone who did follow the case closely probably doesn't really know) -- the state also "lost bigly" when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.

    Wikipedia summarizes her situation as follows:

    Ellen Pao is a Chinese American woman from New Jersey. She has a bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering from Princeton University, a juris doctor from Harvard Law School and an MBA from Harvard Business School. ... In 2005 Pao joined Kleiner Perkins as technical chief of staff for John Doerr, a senior partner, a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software. In 2007 she became a junior investing partner with Ted Schlein as her boss, but was eventually passed over for a senior partner position. According to Pao, she had the job title of junior partner from her date of hiring and was promised an opportunity to move into an investing role. Doerr, who has expressed awareness of the gender gap at venture capital firms, mentored Pao, liberally providing feedback, but, in the end, agreed with the other senior partners who had made negative evaluations of her work at the firm. It was Pao's contention that men with similar profiles were, nevertheless, promoted. ... On May 10, 2012, Pao filed a gender discrimination lawsuit against her employer ...

    Question: Was it the "her" part of "her work", ie perhaps her personality, or even appearance, that was most decisive in these "negative evaluations"? -- if not "negative", then not positive enough anyway.

    So after 7 years of basically not being promoted, perhaps more because of how others viewed her personality/demeanor (or even appearance) rather than the quality of her work (? -- as she saw it), and apparently seeing similarly-qualified male colleagues (with different personalities) promoted (were any similarly-qualified females promoted?; again, I did not follow the case), rather than accept what she saw as unfair treatment and eg look elsewhere and/or resign, she decided to sue.

    I have some sympathy for her in the general scenario described above -- because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement -- whether or not such (normal, honestly) subjective employer evaluations are legally actionable is another matter.

    because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement

    “Personality, demeanor, and even appearance” are very much part of “competence” in that business.

    They’re reviewing countless business plans on a weekly basis. You need to be able to sift through 50 and quickly throw out 49 of them. Then then for the one you (might) feel strongly about, sell your partners and employers on it. If they get on board and the firm proceeds towards an investment, you then need to sell the entrepreneur that approached you in the first place on why your firm and your proposed investment amount and your proposed valuation and proposed capital structure are the best match for him/her. Often there are other VC’s investing with you and you need to interact with them too.

    Its not a job where some socially awkward, shrinking violet, weird Asian woman is likely to be successful.

    You see it all the time in PE/VC – the really smart spread-sheet jockey does great at analysis, etc but fails to advance past a certain level, because past a certain level the ability to interact with other really smart people with big egos and have them see you as someone they can not only trust, but that they want to do business with for the next 5-10 years becomes important – more important than modeling and quant stuff.

    Also fund-raising is the life blood of any VC. The ability to interact with potential investors and have them feel confident that their pension fund, endowment, foundation, family office, or whatever capital will be safe in your hands becomes important. Again, not a good role for some weird Asian grifter.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, Clyde
    • Replies: @Sean
    On the other hand if someone has been in a hot seat job a long while despite looking like a idiot who knows only what he reads in the New York Post, then he probably is very, very good at his job. It's the fellow who makes a great impression that one is likely to be disappointed in.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard

    Its not a job where some socially awkward, shrinking violet, weird Asian woman is likely to be successful.
     
    Someone should tell that to the dumbasses at my former firm, because they sent exactly this type of paperpushing person to spend 3 years doing new business development as an expat in Asia rather than TWGH.

    Good luck with that, assholes.
    , @eah
    “Personality, demeanor, and even appearance” are very much part of “competence” in that business.

    Yes, no doubt -- how much of a part (I don't know exactly what her job was), and how those are weighted by the senior people doing the evaluating, probably varies from firm to firm.

    I don't know what kind of 'track' she was on, ie if someone hired for her position can normally expect to make 'partner' (or whatever) at some point -- at a company like that, where the goal of most 'junior' people is probably to make 'partner' later, it's probably best to let people know after say 5 years if they have a chance to make 'partner' or not, so they can look elsewhere if they have that ambition -- in her case she may still have sued.

    I know from personal acquaintance that eg KKR has a way of reminding 'junior' people where the door is, if not outright ushering them toward it, when it becomes clear a 'junior' associate doesn't have what it takes to advance.
  40. Its funny that Fletcher likely could have kept his con going a bit longer, but his pathological need to show off brought him down (he just had to buy that 5th apartment…4 not being enough, so the co-op started digging in to his finances).

    Similar to sickle-cell anemia, black people are often afflicted with a wildly inflated self-esteem/accomplishment ratio.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    William Badwhite:

    How come it was only the Dakota Co-Op Board practicing a little forensic accounting that first revealed Fletcher's House of Cards and not some regulatory agency?
  41. @Herbert West
    This is like schadenfreude porn, hopefully one or both of them pulls a Bourdain pretty soon

    Schadenfreude porn is a great encapsulation of it.

  42. Ellen Pao is a spawn of two Chinese colonizers who were from Taiwan.

    Ellen Pao was born in New Jersey in 1970. Right off the bat, I must say she has a rather longish head with a pronounced chin and a nice smile — to say something nice about Pao. If Buddy “Black Harvard Token” Fletcher wasn’t banging her, that means he is a real blanksucker. Maybe Pao is a lesbian type or something like those two decadent Chinese ladies in that Bertolucci movie The Last Emperor doing interesting things together.

    The JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire is flooding the United States of America with Chinese infiltrator interloper invaders. The New York City area and California and some other parts of the USA have been inundated and flooded with Chinese interloper invader infiltrators.

    Sarcastic types in the USA think that other Chinese people, in the USA or China, have been watching Ellen Pao’s antics to see what she is able to pull over on the round eye White boobs in the USA.

    The internet says Pao had a kid with Fletcher and that Pao has an electrical engineering degree from Princeton and law and business degrees from Harvard. Wow!

    It is vital that the new White Core American ruling class of the American Empire strongly encourages or facilitates the citizenship revocation of many foreigners and their spawn in the USA. The ones from Ivy League universities should be seen, because of their intelligence, as the foreigners to be deported first. Overly harsh? Tough cookies — when the next phase of the global financial implosion hits, it will be easy to remove and deport many millions of foreigners and the spawn of foreigners.

    Sarcastic type Tweet from 2015:

  43. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    She was also the interim CEO of Reddit. I suspect that is where the bulk of the $ came from.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    "She was also the interim CEO of Reddit."
     
    Where, IIRC, she once again screwed the pooch.
  44. Pao “has threatened more than once to flush our daughter’s fish down the toilet as a punishment which led to our daughter crying.”

    Hey this is just some mild Tiger Mothering. Buddy should be thankful his daughter is learning an instrument.

    “I’m going to count to three, then I want musicality! If the next time’s not PERFECT, I’m going to TAKE ALL YOUR STUFFED ANIMALS AND BURN THEM!” – Amy Chua-Rubenfeld

  45. Don’t worry. Pao will be Secretary of the Treasury in the Harris admin and Fletcher will be the HUD Sec.

  46. @eah
    After all these years, I still can’t find a photo online of these two in the same picture where they weren’t photoshopped together.

    Oh well, it's for the best -- it would only make her grandparents cry.

    But then she lost bigly.

    Which doesn't necessarily mean her own particular complaint didn't have merit (I didn't follow the case so I don't really know; even someone who did follow the case closely probably doesn't really know) -- the state also "lost bigly" when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.

    Wikipedia summarizes her situation as follows:

    Ellen Pao is a Chinese American woman from New Jersey. She has a bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering from Princeton University, a juris doctor from Harvard Law School and an MBA from Harvard Business School. ... In 2005 Pao joined Kleiner Perkins as technical chief of staff for John Doerr, a senior partner, a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software. In 2007 she became a junior investing partner with Ted Schlein as her boss, but was eventually passed over for a senior partner position. According to Pao, she had the job title of junior partner from her date of hiring and was promised an opportunity to move into an investing role. Doerr, who has expressed awareness of the gender gap at venture capital firms, mentored Pao, liberally providing feedback, but, in the end, agreed with the other senior partners who had made negative evaluations of her work at the firm. It was Pao's contention that men with similar profiles were, nevertheless, promoted. ... On May 10, 2012, Pao filed a gender discrimination lawsuit against her employer ...

    Question: Was it the "her" part of "her work", ie perhaps her personality, or even appearance, that was most decisive in these "negative evaluations"? -- if not "negative", then not positive enough anyway.

    So after 7 years of basically not being promoted, perhaps more because of how others viewed her personality/demeanor (or even appearance) rather than the quality of her work (? -- as she saw it), and apparently seeing similarly-qualified male colleagues (with different personalities) promoted (were any similarly-qualified females promoted?; again, I did not follow the case), rather than accept what she saw as unfair treatment and eg look elsewhere and/or resign, she decided to sue.

    I have some sympathy for her in the general scenario described above -- because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement -- whether or not such (normal, honestly) subjective employer evaluations are legally actionable is another matter.

    The wiki doesn’t give the full picture (maybe Pao or her supporters wrote it – wikipedia has a leftist tilt). As you say, personality, demeanor and appearance all come into play in any job situation, especially at this super elite level where you have to have it ALL.

    However, introducing predatory females like Pao adds a whole ‘nother level of sexual politics (unavailable to men unless their bosses are gay) when she tried to sleep her way to the top. When this gambit failed she resorted to lawsuits. A nightmare employee – like Fatal Attraction in an office setting.

    In past times, a woman like Pao would have been called “an adventuress” (as Steve likes to say) but in her lawsuit and the national press that it attracted, she was portrayed as some sort of feminist hero. When that failed before the jury (which unlike the readership of Wikipedia was presented with both sides of the story) the Dem Party/Feminist/NY Times machine dropped her the same way they drop all of their other failed heroes – Machado, Blasey-Ford, etc.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  47. @Dave Pinsen
    Pao, who has gone from failure to failure in Silicon Valley gets $2 million per year for running a diversity nonprofit? What am I missing?

    To be fair, Chairwoman Pao has only ever run non-profits.

  48. @eah
    After all these years, I still can’t find a photo online of these two in the same picture where they weren’t photoshopped together.

    Oh well, it's for the best -- it would only make her grandparents cry.

    But then she lost bigly.

    Which doesn't necessarily mean her own particular complaint didn't have merit (I didn't follow the case so I don't really know; even someone who did follow the case closely probably doesn't really know) -- the state also "lost bigly" when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.

    Wikipedia summarizes her situation as follows:

    Ellen Pao is a Chinese American woman from New Jersey. She has a bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering from Princeton University, a juris doctor from Harvard Law School and an MBA from Harvard Business School. ... In 2005 Pao joined Kleiner Perkins as technical chief of staff for John Doerr, a senior partner, a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software. In 2007 she became a junior investing partner with Ted Schlein as her boss, but was eventually passed over for a senior partner position. According to Pao, she had the job title of junior partner from her date of hiring and was promised an opportunity to move into an investing role. Doerr, who has expressed awareness of the gender gap at venture capital firms, mentored Pao, liberally providing feedback, but, in the end, agreed with the other senior partners who had made negative evaluations of her work at the firm. It was Pao's contention that men with similar profiles were, nevertheless, promoted. ... On May 10, 2012, Pao filed a gender discrimination lawsuit against her employer ...

    Question: Was it the "her" part of "her work", ie perhaps her personality, or even appearance, that was most decisive in these "negative evaluations"? -- if not "negative", then not positive enough anyway.

    So after 7 years of basically not being promoted, perhaps more because of how others viewed her personality/demeanor (or even appearance) rather than the quality of her work (? -- as she saw it), and apparently seeing similarly-qualified male colleagues (with different personalities) promoted (were any similarly-qualified females promoted?; again, I did not follow the case), rather than accept what she saw as unfair treatment and eg look elsewhere and/or resign, she decided to sue.

    I have some sympathy for her in the general scenario described above -- because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement -- whether or not such (normal, honestly) subjective employer evaluations are legally actionable is another matter.

    the state also “lost bigly” when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.

    OJ had the “dream team” and a handpicked, can’t lose mostly black jury vs. a bunch of incompetent state prosecutors and a clown judge. Maybe if Ellen Pao had 12 Chinese women on her jury she would have won too.

    Kleiner and Pao both had top notch legal teams and a fairly chosen jury so it was an even match and Pao lost.

  49. Wow, are Ponzi schemes by charismatic sociopaths the only road to riches on Wall Street in the current era?

  50. Pao’s problem is, she just isn’t hot enough to pull all this off:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ellen+pao&atb=v109-1&ia=images&iax=images

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Yes, it's true that Pao is a 3 or a maybe a 4 tops from certain angles on a good day with good lighting and makeup. Most Asian men, let alone women, don't have that much of a high-T manjaw. But Ajit Nazre, her boss at Kleiner that she was trying to sleep her way to the top with, was an aging 1 or a 2, so a younger 3 was a step up for him.

    https://www.dev.cavkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ajit-Nazre_web-e1454010422531.jpg
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    Poor Ellen is one of those gals that suffers from an extreme case of tranny face.

    The Kiwi singer Tamaryn is another one of those poor gals who suffer from extreme tranny face.
  51. Princeton University (Electrical Engineering, 1991)
    Harvard Law School (Juris Doctor, 1994)
    Harvard Business School (MBA, 1998)

    Daughter of two science university professors immigrants from Taiwan, she has probably a higher IQ and industriousness profile than 90% of commenters and 99.9% of general population (combined, not necessarily IQ alone).

    To be a Partner, you also need social or sociopathic skills. Or being very good at making money. Probably she was a bit on the weak side for this. Some people miss the partner position for just small things. It’s the same with McKinsey principal election to director. It’s not unfair but there is 15% no doubt yes, 15% no doubt no, and 70% where one third will make it, but it’s almost stochastic.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The difference is that if you are a white guy in the 70% and your roll of the dice fails, you accept your fate and go get a job somewhere else (Kleiner or McKinsey is sure good to have on your resume). You're not going to make as much as you would if you had made it but you'll be fine. You knew the risks going in - sure you on an emotional level you thought that YOU would be among the sure yes's, but your rational mind always knew the odds. But if you are Ellen Pao you sleep with your bosses in order to improve your odds and then when that fails you sue for sex discrimination.
  52. These people are soulless. Assign that poor girl to the custody of one of their collateral relatives and then deport them to some place benighted enough that their particular sorts of grossness will blend right in.

  53. @International Jew
    "Nonprofit" doesn't rule out people making a lot of money. Harvard is a nonprofit too. All it means is that you can't distribute your surplus to shareholders. So instead you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.

    I'd say Ellen has found her niche. As for Buddy, he needs to let her go, declare bankruptcy and start afresh. He could try the diversity racket himself.

    “Nonprofit” doesn’t rule out people making a lot of money.

    Gimme an S…
    Gimme a P…
    Gimme an L…
    Gimme a…

  54. they have a kid?

    they’re multiplying…

  55. @Jim Christian
    Asian feminist Pao has more powerful diversity Pokemon Points than a gay Black swindler. Question is, how long until Pao strong arms her way into another CEO position? Or are they through with her?

    At this point only an ignorant fool would hire Pao for any position, even down to the level of burger flipping in a new franchise. The woman is toxic, clearly suffering from multiple Axis II mental disorders, demonstrably incompetent at anything she’s put her hand to, and likely to cost her employer big bucks defending against a frivolous Pao-initiated lawsuit.

  56. @William Badwhite

    because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement
     
    "Personality, demeanor, and even appearance" are very much part of "competence" in that business.

    They're reviewing countless business plans on a weekly basis. You need to be able to sift through 50 and quickly throw out 49 of them. Then then for the one you (might) feel strongly about, sell your partners and employers on it. If they get on board and the firm proceeds towards an investment, you then need to sell the entrepreneur that approached you in the first place on why your firm and your proposed investment amount and your proposed valuation and proposed capital structure are the best match for him/her. Often there are other VC's investing with you and you need to interact with them too.

    Its not a job where some socially awkward, shrinking violet, weird Asian woman is likely to be successful.

    You see it all the time in PE/VC - the really smart spread-sheet jockey does great at analysis, etc but fails to advance past a certain level, because past a certain level the ability to interact with other really smart people with big egos and have them see you as someone they can not only trust, but that they want to do business with for the next 5-10 years becomes important - more important than modeling and quant stuff.

    Also fund-raising is the life blood of any VC. The ability to interact with potential investors and have them feel confident that their pension fund, endowment, foundation, family office, or whatever capital will be safe in your hands becomes important. Again, not a good role for some weird Asian grifter.

    On the other hand if someone has been in a hot seat job a long while despite looking like a idiot who knows only what he reads in the New York Post, then he probably is very, very good at his job. It’s the fellow who makes a great impression that one is likely to be disappointed in.

  57. @Jack D
    She was also the interim CEO of Reddit. I suspect that is where the bulk of the $ came from.

    “She was also the interim CEO of Reddit.”

    Where, IIRC, she once again screwed the pooch.

  58. Fletcher has also asked the court to order Pao to keep distance from him, his home and their daughter, alleging Pao “has threatened more than once to flush our daughter’s fish down the toilet as a punishment which led to our daughter crying.”

    This Gamera-like episode reminds me of the claim by a former subordinate that Pao refused to recognize time taken off to care for an ailing father. When a Chinese denies filial piety it’s like a Polack rejecting garlic.
    And punishment for what? What do you want to bet this girl was doing nothing that a white parent would think punishable?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I'm recalling Amy Chua casually related to friends over lunch one of the ruder tirades she'd visited on her daughter, not realizing how these friends would react. The Chua-like nature of this threat leads me to believe the odious Mr. Fletcher might actually be telling the truth about this particular incident. Again, get that poor girl away from her mother and father. Forever.
  59. @eah
    After all these years, I still can’t find a photo online of these two in the same picture where they weren’t photoshopped together.

    Oh well, it's for the best -- it would only make her grandparents cry.

    But then she lost bigly.

    Which doesn't necessarily mean her own particular complaint didn't have merit (I didn't follow the case so I don't really know; even someone who did follow the case closely probably doesn't really know) -- the state also "lost bigly" when it prosecuted OJ Simpson for criminal homicide.

    Wikipedia summarizes her situation as follows:

    Ellen Pao is a Chinese American woman from New Jersey. She has a bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering from Princeton University, a juris doctor from Harvard Law School and an MBA from Harvard Business School. ... In 2005 Pao joined Kleiner Perkins as technical chief of staff for John Doerr, a senior partner, a job that required degrees in engineering, law, and business, and experience in enterprise software. In 2007 she became a junior investing partner with Ted Schlein as her boss, but was eventually passed over for a senior partner position. According to Pao, she had the job title of junior partner from her date of hiring and was promised an opportunity to move into an investing role. Doerr, who has expressed awareness of the gender gap at venture capital firms, mentored Pao, liberally providing feedback, but, in the end, agreed with the other senior partners who had made negative evaluations of her work at the firm. It was Pao's contention that men with similar profiles were, nevertheless, promoted. ... On May 10, 2012, Pao filed a gender discrimination lawsuit against her employer ...

    Question: Was it the "her" part of "her work", ie perhaps her personality, or even appearance, that was most decisive in these "negative evaluations"? -- if not "negative", then not positive enough anyway.

    So after 7 years of basically not being promoted, perhaps more because of how others viewed her personality/demeanor (or even appearance) rather than the quality of her work (? -- as she saw it), and apparently seeing similarly-qualified male colleagues (with different personalities) promoted (were any similarly-qualified females promoted?; again, I did not follow the case), rather than accept what she saw as unfair treatment and eg look elsewhere and/or resign, she decided to sue.

    I have some sympathy for her in the general scenario described above -- because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement -- whether or not such (normal, honestly) subjective employer evaluations are legally actionable is another matter.

    I would bet that her degree was totally unused in the course of her career except to signal class because of where she got it. How did she call upon her “electrical engineering” skills when she was managing Reddit? She is one of these peopls who gets an A on the test by swotting, but isn’t really interested in the skills or the career, and so makes it to the office with a lot of meeting-filler intended to avoid a real test.

  60. Now Pao is divorcing her gay black disgraced financier husband Alphonse “Buddy” Fletcher.

    Behold your new gods, America! This must have been what fifth century Rome was like. “Are you sure we should rely on these Goths and Franks to run our society? Of course! What’s the worst that could happen??”

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    these Goths and Franks
     
    Comparing these characters to the Goths and Franks are a terrible slur upon the latter.
  61. @William Badwhite
    Its funny that Fletcher likely could have kept his con going a bit longer, but his pathological need to show off brought him down (he just had to buy that 5th apartment...4 not being enough, so the co-op started digging in to his finances).

    Similar to sickle-cell anemia, black people are often afflicted with a wildly inflated self-esteem/accomplishment ratio.

    William Badwhite:

    How come it was only the Dakota Co-Op Board practicing a little forensic accounting that first revealed Fletcher’s House of Cards and not some regulatory agency?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Why didn't the SEC uncover Madoff? Why do the guards sleep all night under BoP warden Lamine N'Diaye? Why didn't the FAA uncover the defects in the 737 Max? Don't you get it now? We are not a European country anymore. We are officially a banana republic and it's only going to get worse from here on in. The America that you once knew is dead.

    The father of a cousin thru marriage of mine came out of Yale Law in the Depression. Private sector jobs law firm jobs, especially for Jews, were scarce, so he went to work for the then new SEC. The man was smart as a whip - came from one of those brilliant Russian Jewish families with all sorts of geniuses, first religious then secular (not all Jews were like this - my father's family were illiterate fishermen who could barely mumble their prayers let alone expound the Talmud). Later he became a private sector securities lawyer and became the first name partner in a good sized NY law firm that exists to this day. (Miserable human being by the way - treated his only child like shit. But a great lawyer - can't have everything.) Guys like this, to the extent that they even exist anymore, are not taking jobs at the SEC.
    , @William Badwhite
    There are scads of investment funds out there - hedge funds, private equity funds, mutual funds, etc. The SEC isn't going to catch onto something until someone complains - an investor or an auditor or a whistleblower, etc.

    Also don't forget they're government employees with all that entails.
  62. @Anonymous
    You left out the part where she slept with her boss a few times, then accused him of harrasment. Presumably attempting a quid pro Pao maneuver before realizing he didnt have the clout required for her endgame and flailing off into a conventional diversity rackets shakedown set piece.

    Only cost her legal fees so why not take a few shots ?

    “quid pro Pao” is magnificent.

    • Agree: JMcG
  63. @AnotherDad
    We need really need some way to kick out the parasites.

    I've mentioned this before: the nation state--a people with a defined territory they control for themselves--is one of the greatest social/political inventions ever. From it flows all sorts of good things like the possibility of republican government and freedom.

    However, unlike tribes of old--where you just kicked out the a*holes--one flaw with the system is that the nation is--in theory--comprised of the people physically there in the terroritory. So there's no easy way to kick out the parasites once they latch on. This problem becomes worse and worse, as you articulate various rights--rights that a self-governing people indeed do want to have.

    I don't have a big desire to kill these people, nor have camps for them. I just don't want to live with them--have them feeding off me. There ought to be a way to just vote them off the island. "Hey we don't want to live with you assholes! Bye!"

    There will be some corner cases, where people can't agree. But even beyond obvious criminals, some people, like these Ellen Pao and Buddy Fletcher characters, just trumpet their utter parasitism. People should have the right to just toss such people out.

    Banishment was a frequent sanction enforced up until at least the late 18th Century in Scotland. Some years ago I had cause to read through the first few years of surviving issues of the “Glasgow Advertiser” (later to become the Herald) and there was no shortage of banishments.

    See also:

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/exile-law

  64. @Cloudbuster
    Pao's problem is, she just isn't hot enough to pull all this off:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ellen+pao&atb=v109-1&ia=images&iax=images

    Yes, it’s true that Pao is a 3 or a maybe a 4 tops from certain angles on a good day with good lighting and makeup. Most Asian men, let alone women, don’t have that much of a high-T manjaw. But Ajit Nazre, her boss at Kleiner that she was trying to sleep her way to the top with, was an aging 1 or a 2, so a younger 3 was a step up for him.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Yes, it’s true that Pao is a 3 or a maybe a 4 tops from certain angles on a good day with good lighting and makeup.
     
    You are generous. 4 is close to average. She has a horse face and is at best a 2.

    high-T manjaw.
     
    Doesn’t high testosterone lead to wider lower temple area?
  65. @Dan Hayes
    William Badwhite:

    How come it was only the Dakota Co-Op Board practicing a little forensic accounting that first revealed Fletcher's House of Cards and not some regulatory agency?

    Why didn’t the SEC uncover Madoff? Why do the guards sleep all night under BoP warden Lamine N’Diaye? Why didn’t the FAA uncover the defects in the 737 Max? Don’t you get it now? We are not a European country anymore. We are officially a banana republic and it’s only going to get worse from here on in. The America that you once knew is dead.

    The father of a cousin thru marriage of mine came out of Yale Law in the Depression. Private sector jobs law firm jobs, especially for Jews, were scarce, so he went to work for the then new SEC. The man was smart as a whip – came from one of those brilliant Russian Jewish families with all sorts of geniuses, first religious then secular (not all Jews were like this – my father’s family were illiterate fishermen who could barely mumble their prayers let alone expound the Talmud). Later he became a private sector securities lawyer and became the first name partner in a good sized NY law firm that exists to this day. (Miserable human being by the way – treated his only child like shit. But a great lawyer – can’t have everything.) Guys like this, to the extent that they even exist anymore, are not taking jobs at the SEC.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Why didn’t the SEC uncover Madoff?

    For the reason Henry Markoplous related: the SEC staff is composed of attorneys who don't have any quant skills. Markopolous made multiple efforts to demonstrate to them the nature of Madoff's business. The most salient meeting occurred in 2005. He had to make his case to a young lady lawyer who just blew them off because she didn't understand it and lacked the initiative to consult with someone who might.

    What's bizarre about the Madoff scheme is that he was able to keep it running for 40 years. Annette Bongiorno, who was the linchpin of the process of generating bogus bank statements for the unfortunates who had signed with his asset management business, said she did the same sort of work for him from the day she was hired in 1968. The leg work was done by fewer than 10 employees of the firm and it's a reasonable guess that most of the employees of Bernard Madoff Securities had no idea that the asset management side of the business was one gigantic long con. Ordinarily, pyramid schemes collapse in a matter of months.

  66. Can someone raise Alexander Pope from the dead? What he could do with such material.

    Or failing that, at least Mencken.

  67. @Bruno
    Princeton University (Electrical Engineering, 1991)
    Harvard Law School (Juris Doctor, 1994)
    Harvard Business School (MBA, 1998)

    Daughter of two science university professors immigrants from Taiwan, she has probably a higher IQ and industriousness profile than 90% of commenters and 99.9% of general population (combined, not necessarily IQ alone).


    To be a Partner, you also need social or sociopathic skills. Or being very good at making money. Probably she was a bit on the weak side for this. Some people miss the partner position for just small things. It’s the same with McKinsey principal election to director. It’s not unfair but there is 15% no doubt yes, 15% no doubt no, and 70% where one third will make it, but it’s almost stochastic.

    The difference is that if you are a white guy in the 70% and your roll of the dice fails, you accept your fate and go get a job somewhere else (Kleiner or McKinsey is sure good to have on your resume). You’re not going to make as much as you would if you had made it but you’ll be fine. You knew the risks going in – sure you on an emotional level you thought that YOU would be among the sure yes’s, but your rational mind always knew the odds. But if you are Ellen Pao you sleep with your bosses in order to improve your odds and then when that fails you sue for sex discrimination.

  68. @William Badwhite

    because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement
     
    "Personality, demeanor, and even appearance" are very much part of "competence" in that business.

    They're reviewing countless business plans on a weekly basis. You need to be able to sift through 50 and quickly throw out 49 of them. Then then for the one you (might) feel strongly about, sell your partners and employers on it. If they get on board and the firm proceeds towards an investment, you then need to sell the entrepreneur that approached you in the first place on why your firm and your proposed investment amount and your proposed valuation and proposed capital structure are the best match for him/her. Often there are other VC's investing with you and you need to interact with them too.

    Its not a job where some socially awkward, shrinking violet, weird Asian woman is likely to be successful.

    You see it all the time in PE/VC - the really smart spread-sheet jockey does great at analysis, etc but fails to advance past a certain level, because past a certain level the ability to interact with other really smart people with big egos and have them see you as someone they can not only trust, but that they want to do business with for the next 5-10 years becomes important - more important than modeling and quant stuff.

    Also fund-raising is the life blood of any VC. The ability to interact with potential investors and have them feel confident that their pension fund, endowment, foundation, family office, or whatever capital will be safe in your hands becomes important. Again, not a good role for some weird Asian grifter.

    Its not a job where some socially awkward, shrinking violet, weird Asian woman is likely to be successful.

    Someone should tell that to the dumbasses at my former firm, because they sent exactly this type of paperpushing person to spend 3 years doing new business development as an expat in Asia rather than TWGH.

    Good luck with that, assholes.

  69. @AnotherDad
    We need really need some way to kick out the parasites.

    I've mentioned this before: the nation state--a people with a defined territory they control for themselves--is one of the greatest social/political inventions ever. From it flows all sorts of good things like the possibility of republican government and freedom.

    However, unlike tribes of old--where you just kicked out the a*holes--one flaw with the system is that the nation is--in theory--comprised of the people physically there in the terroritory. So there's no easy way to kick out the parasites once they latch on. This problem becomes worse and worse, as you articulate various rights--rights that a self-governing people indeed do want to have.

    I don't have a big desire to kill these people, nor have camps for them. I just don't want to live with them--have them feeding off me. There ought to be a way to just vote them off the island. "Hey we don't want to live with you assholes! Bye!"

    There will be some corner cases, where people can't agree. But even beyond obvious criminals, some people, like these Ellen Pao and Buddy Fletcher characters, just trumpet their utter parasitism. People should have the right to just toss such people out.

    I’ve spent time in Switzerland during the 90s and oughts and my recollection was that some of the more desirable towns operated rather like country clubs. You could move in on a trial basis, the townsfolk could get to know you, but you could not live there permanently unless the Gemeinde (municipality) approved your being a citizen of the town. If you turned out not to fit in, you were not approved and had to go.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Sounds good to me.
  70. @Richard S

    Now Pao is divorcing her gay black disgraced financier husband Alphonse “Buddy” Fletcher.
     
    Behold your new gods, America! This must have been what fifth century Rome was like. “Are you sure we should rely on these Goths and Franks to run our society? Of course! What’s the worst that could happen??”

    these Goths and Franks

    Comparing these characters to the Goths and Franks are a terrible slur upon the latter.

    • Replies: @Richard S
    Lol, true enough. European civilisation ultimately benefitted from the infusion of Germanic blood, bursting forth across the Rhine and Danube.

    One hesitates to suppose that the barbarians storming into the West today will bring any biological advantages to our descendants. ...

    (Aside from increased resistance to malaria, perhaps??)
  71. @Jack D
    Yes, it's true that Pao is a 3 or a maybe a 4 tops from certain angles on a good day with good lighting and makeup. Most Asian men, let alone women, don't have that much of a high-T manjaw. But Ajit Nazre, her boss at Kleiner that she was trying to sleep her way to the top with, was an aging 1 or a 2, so a younger 3 was a step up for him.

    https://www.dev.cavkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ajit-Nazre_web-e1454010422531.jpg

    Yes, it’s true that Pao is a 3 or a maybe a 4 tops from certain angles on a good day with good lighting and makeup.

    You are generous. 4 is close to average. She has a horse face and is at best a 2.

    high-T manjaw.

    Doesn’t high testosterone lead to wider lower temple area?

  72. @Twinkie

    these Goths and Franks
     
    Comparing these characters to the Goths and Franks are a terrible slur upon the latter.

    Lol, true enough. European civilisation ultimately benefitted from the infusion of Germanic blood, bursting forth across the Rhine and Danube.

    One hesitates to suppose that the barbarians storming into the West today will bring any biological advantages to our descendants. …

    (Aside from increased resistance to malaria, perhaps??)

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    European civilisation ultimately benefitted from the infusion of Germanic blood, bursting forth across the Rhine and Danube.
     
    I’m sure it was horrifying to the civilized Romans, and all manners of civilized existence collapsed. But the Goths and the Franks were at least vigorous and warlike, if barbarians. People such as Pao and her ex-husband are parasites and are worse than barbarians.
  73. @bomag

    ...you hire lots of useless people and reward them generously.
     
    A hallmark of our time is the Foudation/NGO/non-profit. We've built quite a subculture of these things. There is usually a quote from three of them in a story about race/immigration/etc.

    Locally, I read an effusive piece about one of these education "non-profits" working in our area, about how they've made such an impact. I'd never heard of them until reading this puff piece.

    Yes, and the sad thing about these ‘Foundations/NGOs/Non-profits’ is that most of the money raised winds up going into the salaries and overhead for the people working for them…very little for the actual ’cause’ people donated for originally…

    Actually I was reading recently about a project in Haiti that raised millions presumbly for building housing after the earthquake…last I heard they were being audited after building about 7 or 8 actual houses…

    They should be banned from most countries…

  74. Obviously, their marriage failed because 8th graders aren’t taught hrxtory, and Pao’s wildly expensive hrxterectomy.

  75. @Cloudbuster
    Pao's problem is, she just isn't hot enough to pull all this off:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ellen+pao&atb=v109-1&ia=images&iax=images

    Poor Ellen is one of those gals that suffers from an extreme case of tranny face.

    The Kiwi singer Tamaryn is another one of those poor gals who suffer from extreme tranny face.

  76. They have a daughter? I thought Ellen Pao was Buddy’s beard.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Escher:

    If this vile couple have any progeny, he/she/it will be blessed with all the bad qualities and none of the good qualities (ie, if they have any) of their parent's ethnicities.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    It's possible that they preferred to conceive progeny the old-fashioned way rather than the usual homosexual practice of adopting a grooming victim...err...child from the foster care system.
  77. @Steve in Greensboro
    I've spent time in Switzerland during the 90s and oughts and my recollection was that some of the more desirable towns operated rather like country clubs. You could move in on a trial basis, the townsfolk could get to know you, but you could not live there permanently unless the Gemeinde (municipality) approved your being a citizen of the town. If you turned out not to fit in, you were not approved and had to go.

    Sounds good to me.

  78. Talk about two people who really deserve one another.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  79. @Kylie
    They deserve each other.

    My immediate thought, but I see that you beat me to it, Kylie.

  80. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "We need really need some way to kick out the parasites."


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3FpSpJzdrtI/UD7CyiK1qtI/AAAAAAAAFRc/VxMURlCs1wQ/s1600/tumblr_m5cu224QI71rwcc6bo1_500.gif

    I used up my Agree for Another Dad’s comment, so all I’ve got for you, Mike, is a, “Yes!”

  81. @Richard S
    Lol, true enough. European civilisation ultimately benefitted from the infusion of Germanic blood, bursting forth across the Rhine and Danube.

    One hesitates to suppose that the barbarians storming into the West today will bring any biological advantages to our descendants. ...

    (Aside from increased resistance to malaria, perhaps??)

    European civilisation ultimately benefitted from the infusion of Germanic blood, bursting forth across the Rhine and Danube.

    I’m sure it was horrifying to the civilized Romans, and all manners of civilized existence collapsed. But the Goths and the Franks were at least vigorous and warlike, if barbarians. People such as Pao and her ex-husband are parasites and are worse than barbarians.

  82. @Escher
    They have a daughter? I thought Ellen Pao was Buddy’s beard.

    Escher:

    If this vile couple have any progeny, he/she/it will be blessed with all the bad qualities and none of the good qualities (ie, if they have any) of their parent’s ethnicities.

  83. @J.Ross

    Fletcher has also asked the court to order Pao to keep distance from him, his home and their daughter, alleging Pao “has threatened more than once to flush our daughter’s fish down the toilet as a punishment which led to our daughter crying.”
     
    This Gamera-like episode reminds me of the claim by a former subordinate that Pao refused to recognize time taken off to care for an ailing father. When a Chinese denies filial piety it's like a Polack rejecting garlic.
    And punishment for what? What do you want to bet this girl was doing nothing that a white parent would think punishable?

    I’m recalling Amy Chua casually related to friends over lunch one of the ruder tirades she’d visited on her daughter, not realizing how these friends would react. The Chua-like nature of this threat leads me to believe the odious Mr. Fletcher might actually be telling the truth about this particular incident. Again, get that poor girl away from her mother and father. Forever.

  84. @Jack D
    Why didn't the SEC uncover Madoff? Why do the guards sleep all night under BoP warden Lamine N'Diaye? Why didn't the FAA uncover the defects in the 737 Max? Don't you get it now? We are not a European country anymore. We are officially a banana republic and it's only going to get worse from here on in. The America that you once knew is dead.

    The father of a cousin thru marriage of mine came out of Yale Law in the Depression. Private sector jobs law firm jobs, especially for Jews, were scarce, so he went to work for the then new SEC. The man was smart as a whip - came from one of those brilliant Russian Jewish families with all sorts of geniuses, first religious then secular (not all Jews were like this - my father's family were illiterate fishermen who could barely mumble their prayers let alone expound the Talmud). Later he became a private sector securities lawyer and became the first name partner in a good sized NY law firm that exists to this day. (Miserable human being by the way - treated his only child like shit. But a great lawyer - can't have everything.) Guys like this, to the extent that they even exist anymore, are not taking jobs at the SEC.

    Why didn’t the SEC uncover Madoff?

    For the reason Henry Markoplous related: the SEC staff is composed of attorneys who don’t have any quant skills. Markopolous made multiple efforts to demonstrate to them the nature of Madoff’s business. The most salient meeting occurred in 2005. He had to make his case to a young lady lawyer who just blew them off because she didn’t understand it and lacked the initiative to consult with someone who might.

    What’s bizarre about the Madoff scheme is that he was able to keep it running for 40 years. Annette Bongiorno, who was the linchpin of the process of generating bogus bank statements for the unfortunates who had signed with his asset management business, said she did the same sort of work for him from the day she was hired in 1968. The leg work was done by fewer than 10 employees of the firm and it’s a reasonable guess that most of the employees of Bernard Madoff Securities had no idea that the asset management side of the business was one gigantic long con. Ordinarily, pyramid schemes collapse in a matter of months.

  85. @Dan Hayes
    William Badwhite:

    How come it was only the Dakota Co-Op Board practicing a little forensic accounting that first revealed Fletcher's House of Cards and not some regulatory agency?

    There are scads of investment funds out there – hedge funds, private equity funds, mutual funds, etc. The SEC isn’t going to catch onto something until someone complains – an investor or an auditor or a whistleblower, etc.

    Also don’t forget they’re government employees with all that entails.

  86. @Escher
    They have a daughter? I thought Ellen Pao was Buddy’s beard.

    It’s possible that they preferred to conceive progeny the old-fashioned way rather than the usual homosexual practice of adopting a grooming victim…err…child from the foster care system.

  87. @Clyde
    If I'm so smart how come I'm not getting a nice, fat, juicy salary from my own diversity non-profit?

    Because you didn’t form a non profit charitable or educational tax exempt foundation and hire a commission grant writer.

    It’s the greatest scam around.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    You are very good blossom Dearie and one of the few women brave enough to post here. Best to you!
  88. California’s community property . That means Ellen’s liable for half husband’s debts and mess. There’s no more alimony but he’s entitled to half her assets plus child support based on the $200,000 a year salary she scams from her grant writers and professional fundraisers.

    Ha ha ha

  89. Meh;

    A garden variety, low rent beard and a Con man.

    Nothing to see here.

  90. @Alden
    Because you didn’t form a non profit charitable or educational tax exempt foundation and hire a commission grant writer.

    It’s the greatest scam around.

    You are very good blossom Dearie and one of the few women brave enough to post here. Best to you!

  91. @William Badwhite

    because I know personality, demeanor, and even appearance (eg male height) can be and are factors that can and do outweigh competence in workplace advancement
     
    "Personality, demeanor, and even appearance" are very much part of "competence" in that business.

    They're reviewing countless business plans on a weekly basis. You need to be able to sift through 50 and quickly throw out 49 of them. Then then for the one you (might) feel strongly about, sell your partners and employers on it. If they get on board and the firm proceeds towards an investment, you then need to sell the entrepreneur that approached you in the first place on why your firm and your proposed investment amount and your proposed valuation and proposed capital structure are the best match for him/her. Often there are other VC's investing with you and you need to interact with them too.

    Its not a job where some socially awkward, shrinking violet, weird Asian woman is likely to be successful.

    You see it all the time in PE/VC - the really smart spread-sheet jockey does great at analysis, etc but fails to advance past a certain level, because past a certain level the ability to interact with other really smart people with big egos and have them see you as someone they can not only trust, but that they want to do business with for the next 5-10 years becomes important - more important than modeling and quant stuff.

    Also fund-raising is the life blood of any VC. The ability to interact with potential investors and have them feel confident that their pension fund, endowment, foundation, family office, or whatever capital will be safe in your hands becomes important. Again, not a good role for some weird Asian grifter.

    “Personality, demeanor, and even appearance” are very much part of “competence” in that business.

    Yes, no doubt — how much of a part (I don’t know exactly what her job was), and how those are weighted by the senior people doing the evaluating, probably varies from firm to firm.

    I don’t know what kind of ‘track’ she was on, ie if someone hired for her position can normally expect to make ‘partner’ (or whatever) at some point — at a company like that, where the goal of most ‘junior’ people is probably to make ‘partner’ later, it’s probably best to let people know after say 5 years if they have a chance to make ‘partner’ or not, so they can look elsewhere if they have that ambition — in her case she may still have sued.

    I know from personal acquaintance that eg KKR has a way of reminding ‘junior’ people where the door is, if not outright ushering them toward it, when it becomes clear a ‘junior’ associate doesn’t have what it takes to advance.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    I don’t know what kind of ‘track’ she was on, ie if someone hired for her position can normally expect to make ‘partner’ (or whatever) at some point
     
    In her chosen profession of venture capital, the only track that matters is the investing roles. The CFO, general counsel, investor relations types may do quite well financially, but their upward mobility is constrained. You need to be on the deal side to really make big $$. So if Pao wasn't on the deal side, she was out of the fast lane from the start. If she was on the deal side....

    ...in most highly compensated professions there comes a point where leading (manipulating?) people and representing the firm is more important than analysis, cranking away on models, etc. Its been my experience this usually trips up the awkward Asian grinds at some point.


    I know from personal acquaintance that eg KKR has a way of reminding ‘junior’ people where the door is, if not outright ushering them toward it, when it becomes clear a ‘junior’ associate doesn’t have what it takes to advance.
     
    The more humane places I've worked do the same thing. In some cases they'll let the mid-level folks know they value their work and they can stay, they've just received their last promotion. Its not like the military with its "up or out" structure. That said most mid-level folks I know of that received that "you're not getting promoted" message opted to leave.
  92. @eah
    “Personality, demeanor, and even appearance” are very much part of “competence” in that business.

    Yes, no doubt -- how much of a part (I don't know exactly what her job was), and how those are weighted by the senior people doing the evaluating, probably varies from firm to firm.

    I don't know what kind of 'track' she was on, ie if someone hired for her position can normally expect to make 'partner' (or whatever) at some point -- at a company like that, where the goal of most 'junior' people is probably to make 'partner' later, it's probably best to let people know after say 5 years if they have a chance to make 'partner' or not, so they can look elsewhere if they have that ambition -- in her case she may still have sued.

    I know from personal acquaintance that eg KKR has a way of reminding 'junior' people where the door is, if not outright ushering them toward it, when it becomes clear a 'junior' associate doesn't have what it takes to advance.

    I don’t know what kind of ‘track’ she was on, ie if someone hired for her position can normally expect to make ‘partner’ (or whatever) at some point

    In her chosen profession of venture capital, the only track that matters is the investing roles. The CFO, general counsel, investor relations types may do quite well financially, but their upward mobility is constrained. You need to be on the deal side to really make big $$. So if Pao wasn’t on the deal side, she was out of the fast lane from the start. If she was on the deal side….

    …in most highly compensated professions there comes a point where leading (manipulating?) people and representing the firm is more important than analysis, cranking away on models, etc. Its been my experience this usually trips up the awkward Asian grinds at some point.

    I know from personal acquaintance that eg KKR has a way of reminding ‘junior’ people where the door is, if not outright ushering them toward it, when it becomes clear a ‘junior’ associate doesn’t have what it takes to advance.

    The more humane places I’ve worked do the same thing. In some cases they’ll let the mid-level folks know they value their work and they can stay, they’ve just received their last promotion. Its not like the military with its “up or out” structure. That said most mid-level folks I know of that received that “you’re not getting promoted” message opted to leave.

  93. Pao, who is now the CEO of her own diversity nonprofit, Project Include, tried to keep all the mud-slinging private by asking the court to seal the case, but was denied.

    Among American Elites 503C non profit entities are a form semi-legal tax evasion, just begging to be corrupt. Being that it’s Pao, I’d say that it’s highly likely is corrupt.

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