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Elizabeth Holmes Convicted on 4 of 11 Counts
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In this week’s Trial of the Century, from the New York Times news section:

Elizabeth Holmes is found guilty of four counts of fraud.

SAN JOSE, Calif. — Elizabeth Holmes, the founder of the failed blood testing start-up Theranos, was found guilty of four of 11 charges of fraud on Monday, in a case that came to symbolize the pitfalls of Silicon Valley’s culture of hustle, hype and greed.

Ms. Holmes, who had once promised to revolutionize health care, was the most prominent executive to field fraud accusations in a generation of high-flying, money-losing start-ups. A jury of eight men and four women took 50 hours over seven days of deliberations to reach a verdict, convicting her of three counts of wire fraud and one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud by lying to investors to raise money for her company.

Ms. Holmes was found not guilty on four other counts related to defrauding patients who had used Theranos’s blood tests. The jury was unable to reach a verdict on three counts of deceiving investors, for which Judge Edward J. Davila of California’s Northern District said he planned to declare a mistrial.

It seems to me that terrifying patients with bad blood tests (as far as I know, nobody died due to Holmes’ blood test machine being so unreliable, but some patients had to rush to the emergency room and get a real blood test when Theranos told them they were practically dead) is worse than costing various super-elites like Rupert Murdoch and the Waltons some money. But the jury saw the law the other way around.

A few other lessons:

  • There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.
  • Although much of the spin is that this discredits Silicon Valley, the SV venture capitalists and the like came out looking pretty good by largely passing on Theranos. Larry Ellison was one of the few Silicon Valley figures to invest. Most of the investors and directors instead came from the non-tech center-right Establishment.
  • American elites, at least outside of Silicon Valley, are ardently feminist both in terms of expectations and whom they root for. Holmes found a whole bunch of Old White Men who were excited about helping discover The Female Steve Jobs, the first woman tech billionaire founder.
 
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  1. 1. If you look at the counts she was convicted on, they were the really serious ones in terms of \$ – wire fraud of \$99 million, etc. Acquitted of the minor counts such as giving \$45 faulty blood test results to patients.

    2. These counts EACH carry prison terms up to 20 years. Unless you are Madoff, these are usually served concurrently, so 3 counts of fraud get you (almost) as much time as 7 counts. Juries often don’t realize this and will “compromise” by spitting the verdict. This does the defendant little good.

    3. She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years. Maybe something like 2 to 5 years. 7 would be the absolute maximum but I’d be surprised if she got that much. That’s my prediction. Meanwhile her lawyers will drag the appeals out for years.

    • Thanks: HA
    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Jack D


    She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years
     
    She also (very smartly and sociopathically) got herself pregnant by her brand-new rich husband during the federal investigation/prosecution. That will not only get her time reduced to "keep families together", but also send her to the cushiest of cushy federal prisons -- for nursing mothers and mothers of infants, because we want to make sure children and their mothers bond. She might even get furloughed every weekend to raise the child at home.

    Replies: @puttheforkdown, @Twinkie, @neprof

    , @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Jack D

    "She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady..."

    Are you sure she's nice?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Clyde, @kaganovitch

    , @Alden
    @Jack D

    Thank you for explaining the charges. It’s California. Black killers are often let out early to kill again. Because she’s White she might get the Kim Potter treatment. White women aren’t treated any better than White men if they get caught up in the system. It’s just that women of all races don’t commit the violent crimes men do. Violent crimes black men do that is.

    Her small child might make a difference. Husband has plenty of money. Doesn’t need to go to a workplace every day like the rest of us proles . So he can find a nice house near her prison and a nanny. And like Epstein who went to “ work” 14 or more hours a day while in the county jail, Elizabeth can spend 14,16 hours a day tending to her child in a nice house near the prison.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Alden
    @Jack D

    Federal case so she will probably go to the federal prison in Pleasanton. It’s only about 100 or less miles from San Francisco where she and her husband live. It’s not bad as prisons go. I think they have private rooms. Nice area near the coast so it never gets hot in summer.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Alden

    , @Athenian Gentleman
    @Jack D


    Juries often don’t realize this and will “compromise” by spitting the verdict. This does the defendant little good.
     
    To say nothing of being unhygienic and unsightly. Spitting, that is.
  2. I’d imagine the not guilty verdicts on the counts for defrauding patients reflect the fact that it was much harder for the prosecution to prove *intent* on those counts, that is, that Holmes intended for the patients to act on her misrepresentations. But admittedly I know nothing about the legal specifics of the case and haven’t read any analysis yet. Fascinating backstory to the whole thing though, especially the part about George Schulz’s grandson.

    • Agree: Abelard Lindsey
    • Replies: @pirelli
    @pirelli

    Well, scratch that, after doing a bit of reading, it looks like it was probably that (a) there just wasn’t that much testimony from patients, and (b) the jurors might’ve gotten confused by the role of doctors in interpreting the results.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-elizabeth-holmes-verdict-theranos-founder-is-guilty-on-four-of-11-charges-in-fraud-trial-11641255705

    The Elizabeth Holmes Verdict: Theranos Founder Is Guilty on Four of 11 Charges in Fraud Trial - WSJ

    , @Ripple Earthdevil
    @pirelli

    I haven't followed it closely so what's the deal with Shultz's grandson?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @HA

  3. For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.

    • Agree: Spect3r
    • Thanks: HammerJack
    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Trelane


    For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.
     
    Isn't that all of them now?
    , @Kronos
    @Trelane

    If you grew up watching the “Venture Bros” you learned to stay away from the “Dr. Girlfriend” types.

    https://youtu.be/0LOEFm6oIdY

    Replies: @Tony massey

    , @kaganovitch
    @Trelane

    For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.

    It would appear that older readers like Mssrs. Kissinger et Schultz are most in need of this advice.

    , @Athenian Gentleman
    @Trelane


    beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.
     
    https://ia800901.us.archive.org/1/items/OTRR_Dragnet_Singles/Dragnet_53-01-11_186_The_Big_Small.mp3
    Dragnet #186, The Big Small
  4. @pirelli
    I’d imagine the not guilty verdicts on the counts for defrauding patients reflect the fact that it was much harder for the prosecution to prove *intent* on those counts, that is, that Holmes intended for the patients to act on her misrepresentations. But admittedly I know nothing about the legal specifics of the case and haven’t read any analysis yet. Fascinating backstory to the whole thing though, especially the part about George Schulz’s grandson.

    Replies: @pirelli, @Ripple Earthdevil

    Well, scratch that, after doing a bit of reading, it looks like it was probably that (a) there just wasn’t that much testimony from patients, and (b) the jurors might’ve gotten confused by the role of doctors in interpreting the results.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-elizabeth-holmes-verdict-theranos-founder-is-guilty-on-four-of-11-charges-in-fraud-trial-11641255705

    The Elizabeth Holmes Verdict: Theranos Founder Is Guilty on Four of 11 Charges in Fraud Trial – WSJ

  5. Goes to show that when a semi-pretty girl arrives in Silicon Valley and pretends that she has her own radical idea to “disrupt” some established business model, you really should stay away from her. Steve deserves credit for reintroducing the concept of the grifting adventuress into our culture.

  6. There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.

    Au contraire—

    1. The Board got huge salaries and bonuses for their work, as well as stock in a rising company at the time that they could sell once all the headlines from hiring her died down but before the stock crashed due to her shenanigans.

    2. They got all the great headlines about pushing “women in STEM” and “women CEOs” from feminazis.

    3. They suffered zero legal consequences and suffered almost zero negative social/political/PR consequences from pushing her.

    Are any of them on trial for hiring her or not investigating the fraud? Are any of them bad mouthed in the corporate press for such a bad decision, hounding them out of their other jobs/speeches? Are any of them forced to give back all the money they got from being on the Board?

    There is an Inner Party. They just know the people who notice their evil have no power to stop them.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @R.G. Camara


    1. The Board got huge salaries and bonuses for their work, as well as stock in a rising company at the time that they could sell once all the headlines from hiring her died down but before the stock crashed due to her shenanigans.
     
    For companies at Theranos' stage (private and well-funded, pre-IPO), cash compensation for the Board usually ranges from tiny to pretty substantial (but not huge). Bonuses almost always take the form of restricted stock grants or options, usually "vesting" over a few years (actual ownership comes gradually, as an incentive to stick with the company).

    Stocks and options are very illiquid -- there is no market and no clearly-established price for them, so they are difficult (though not always impossible) to sell.

    For a private company's Board and senior management, a major incentive for an IPO (or a SPAC, or an outright sale to a larger company) is to make it possible to turn one's illiquid paper wealth into actual money. For that reason, VCs call these "liquidity events."

    I don't know these details for Theranos, but it's likely that they were close to industry standard. In other words, the big fish (on or off the Board) likely lost all or almost all of the money they invested.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @James J O'Meara
    @R.G. Camara

    "There is an Inner Party. They just know the people who notice their evil have no power to stop them."

    Like Clay Shaw in Stone's JFK, they "just walk between the raindrops."

    , @Mike1
    @R.G. Camara

    Steve confuses being on the inside with being competent.

  7. @Jack D
    1. If you look at the counts she was convicted on, they were the really serious ones in terms of $ - wire fraud of $99 million, etc. Acquitted of the minor counts such as giving $45 faulty blood test results to patients.

    2. These counts EACH carry prison terms up to 20 years. Unless you are Madoff, these are usually served concurrently, so 3 counts of fraud get you (almost) as much time as 7 counts. Juries often don't realize this and will "compromise" by spitting the verdict. This does the defendant little good.

    3. She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years. Maybe something like 2 to 5 years. 7 would be the absolute maximum but I'd be surprised if she got that much. That's my prediction. Meanwhile her lawyers will drag the appeals out for years.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Ghost of Bull Moose, @Alden, @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman

    She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years

    She also (very smartly and sociopathically) got herself pregnant by her brand-new rich husband during the federal investigation/prosecution. That will not only get her time reduced to “keep families together”, but also send her to the cushiest of cushy federal prisons — for nursing mothers and mothers of infants, because we want to make sure children and their mothers bond. She might even get furloughed every weekend to raise the child at home.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Disagree: Bernard
    • Replies: @puttheforkdown
    @R.G. Camara

    I like the idea of mandatory abortions for confirmed sociopaths. If I were king for a day...

    , @Twinkie
    @R.G. Camara


    She also (very smartly and sociopathically) got herself pregnant by her brand-new rich husband during the federal investigation/prosecution.
     
    Who is this imbecile who married her AND got her pregnant during the prosecution?
    , @neprof
    @R.G. Camara

    sounds more comfy than a COVID quarantine

  8. There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on.

    I agree, which is why I generally do not believe in conspiracy theories.

    Larry Ellison was one of the few Silicon Valley figures to invest.

    MedVentures, the first VC firm Elizabeth Holmes approached, declined to invest when she failed to answer basic questions they asked her of the underlying technology (microfluidics).

    Holmes found a whole bunch of Old White Men who were excited about helping discover The Female Steve Jobs, the first woman tech billionaire founder.

    This is not necessarily feminism. These old white men invested in Elizabeth Holmes because they saw in her the prodigy daughter they never had. These old white men are as interested in their daughters being successful as their sons.

    • Replies: @usNthem
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Could be. On the other hand, it could have been plain old fashioned T & A to a bunch of wealthy, lecherous old goats.

    Replies: @Uncle Dan, @Abelard Lindsey, @Moses

  9. American elites, at least outside of Silicon Valley, are ardently feminist both in terms of expectations and whom they root for. Holmes found a whole bunch of Old White Men who were excited about helping discover The Female Steve Jobs, the first woman tech billionaire founder.

    Lets see what sentence she gets. Usually, women get only about one-fifth of the sentence that men get for an identical crime (so much for ‘male privilege’), but this is serious in that important people got burned, so the customary leniency on women might be reduced.

    She might actually be held to the standards that a male convict is held to. At least at first. After Kissinger, Schultz, and other old people she swindled pass on, her sentence might be greatly reduced through the restoration of the policy of leniency on women.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Thomm

    Nonsense, everyone loves a female villain. Maxwell (mocked at school for her slow reading) was convicted of "trafficking" and will spend the best part of the rest of her life in prison (added to her time in a strip cell without underwear under the strictest jail conditions lack of privacy of any one in pre trial detention in the US) due to lurid pretrial publicity about Pedophile Island and Lolita Express flights there. But who was she orchestrating the trafficking of these under age girls to? Nobody that anyone is interested in bringing to book obviously.

    Replies: @houston 1992, @anonymous, @Pericles

  10. There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on.

    This has been striking again when you really think about it. The ‘insiders’ don’t really research enough on their own (Nor is anything like a small amount of them actually inclined to research much themselves) and rely on journalists. If no business journalists thought to investigate then nobody will assume anything is awry. They don’t know enough chemistry or biology to understand why Theranos was counting it’s chickens before the hens had got pregnant let alone laid any eggs. They weren’t funding a startup they were funding R&D on an unproven concept that would require far more resources than it was getting. (Lest people forget their chief science officer killed himself and left a suicide note that said “It just doesn’t work” and it still took some time after that for journos to get their teeth into the story.)

    Another example is how the business media was all excited and bullish about bitcoin since the rally in late 2020. But despite Tether coming up almost immediately as one of the primary reasons for the sudden rise (Despite neither big institutions nor ordinary people showing much interest prior to the rally itself) the media didn’t talk about it until the last few months. As if questions about Tether and how the spot price for bitcoin is set haven’t been around for years and years. The company that is supposed to be guarantor of Tethers can’t get reputable banking and have to bank with a dodgy banks who don’t ask questions. I’m not sure if they are still with the bank in Puerto Rico but though their accounts aren’t disclosed the annual banking report for Puerto Rico indicated that even if every cent that entered Puerto Rican banks was to Tether, it wouldn’t cover it. And that was when the outstanding Tethers were about 1/10 in number.

    The old line used to be ‘nobody knows anything’ about Hollywood, I think the news media has earned that line too.

    It’s wild because a journalist at a higher level than the ones who were talking about Tether could have gotten a big boost.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Altai

    "There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on."

    There most certainly IS an Inner Party, and not only do they know what's going on, they know it because they are the ones who put "what's going on" in motion to begin with.

    These sorts of VC shenanigans are just a hobby for the Inner Party, and if they occasionally blow up cartoon-style, no big deal. The Inner Party is focused laser-like on other stuff, and they have better things to do than pat their wannabe billionaire tech baby pet on the head.

    Also, guys like Sam Nunn are not examples of who the Inner Party really are. If you hold elected office, with few exceptions you're more like the doorman or the valet parking guy: you wear a fancy uniform and a funny hat, and you do what you're told, and live off of tips.

    Replies: @Cortes, @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

  11. What you said. Or else she was literally blowing all of them. Certain situations cloud even the best judgement of the wisest shaman. And in fairness, what she was trying to pull wasnt much more audacious than the scam Big Pharma successfully pulled off with the bad.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @JimDandyaway


    What you said. Or else she was literally blowing all of them. Certain situations cloud even the best judgement of the wisest shaman. And in fairness, what she was trying to pull wasnt much more audacious than the scam Big Pharma successfully pulled off with the bad.
     
    Well, she was probably symbolically or metaphorically "blowing all of them" by stroking their ample egos. You sometimes see this dynamic between older men and younger women where it's not patently sexual, but there is some emotionally intimate relationship (at least in the emotions of the older man). It seems to revolve around letting the older man believe - without saying - that were he forty years younger and not married to his old hag homemaker wife they'd be lovers because there is a real connection and mutual respect and admiration.
  12. She is convicted, such good news for Sunny Balwani, who emails used in evidence show she was pathetically devoted to. Although Holmes was really just a front for his fraud he is now going to be able to portray her as a malevolent mastermind. As with Maxwell being the only one in prison for a supposed ‘powerful men abusing underage girls scandal’. Females make more interesting villains. If you do wrong, be a nondescript male.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Sean

    I wonder if the prosecution and\or police had any “Basic Instinct” moments while dealing with Maxwell.

    https://youtu.be/pkoSoYGLwVI

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Pericles
    @Sean


    As with Maxwell being the only one in prison for a supposed ‘powerful men abusing underage girls scandal’.

     

    Well, Epstein was locked up until he didn't kill himself.
    , @PhysicistDave
    @Sean

    Sean wrote:


    She is convicted, such good news for Sunny Balwani, who emails used in evidence show she was pathetically devoted to. Although Holmes was really just a front for his fraud he is now going to be able to portray her as a malevolent mastermind.
     
    No, probably not.

    If the prosecutors drop the three charges that hung the jury, Holmes cannot plead the Fifth to avoid testifying in Sunny's trial: since she is already convicted, the prosecutors could and would grant her immunity for any additional testimony she provides that might further incriminate herself.

    And she would then have to repeat the nasty things she said about Sunny.
    If she reneges on them, she is admitting to perjury.

    If Sunny is smart, he is now looking for a plea deal.

    Replies: @Sean, @Sean

  13. I can’t help but feel I’ve had Liz all wrong. Theirs no way a jury of my peers would ever think of convicting me no matter what ya know. Geez I’d kill those guys if they hung me over whatever’s. What kind of peers does she have and after all she’s been thru?
    I also think this is a good opportunity for me to introduce myself to Liz and per chance strike up a fanciful relationship. I know she’ll be glad to get my letters. Gotta be boring when you’re in a cdoc women’s prison and you’re only gay for the stay.
    I can’t wait for cdoc to post that address. The future just started looking ☝.
    I’d wait for a gal like that. Must be something up that skirt to have ol hank sniffing round. What is he like… hasn’t killinger actually been dead for over a decade now and THEY just say he’s still alive?
    If she was 👌 by Hank she’s good enough for me i reckon.
    What kind of peers does she have convicting her like that? Can’t wait to write her.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    @Tony massey

    A big problem with financial fraud / crime is that it is a 'high trust' business and it makes it 10x harder to do business for the next guy. Clients don't want to invest and it forces the regulators to come up with a slough of laws that create red tape wasting everybody's time and energy. Holmes should not only pick up beer cans on the side of highway in an orange jump suit but also pay back every nickel she lost plus penalties. When everyone is whole again she can regain her freedom and property.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @PhysicistDave

  14. @Abelard Lindsey

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on.
     
    I agree, which is why I generally do not believe in conspiracy theories.

    Larry Ellison was one of the few Silicon Valley figures to invest.
     
    MedVentures, the first VC firm Elizabeth Holmes approached, declined to invest when she failed to answer basic questions they asked her of the underlying technology (microfluidics).

    Holmes found a whole bunch of Old White Men who were excited about helping discover The Female Steve Jobs, the first woman tech billionaire founder.

     

    This is not necessarily feminism. These old white men invested in Elizabeth Holmes because they saw in her the prodigy daughter they never had. These old white men are as interested in their daughters being successful as their sons.

    Replies: @usNthem

    Could be. On the other hand, it could have been plain old fashioned T & A to a bunch of wealthy, lecherous old goats.

    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @Uncle Dan
    @usNthem

    There’s no fool like an old fool.

    , @Abelard Lindsey
    @usNthem

    Naw. Elizabeth Holmes had the sex appeal of a horse.

    , @Moses
    @usNthem


    Could be. On the other hand, it could have been plain old fashioned T & A to a bunch of wealthy, lecherous old goats.
     
    Yeah, that was my take too. She flirted with them shamelessly. Plus they got the PR of supporting da wymyns and stuff.

    My biggest takeaway from the scandal was how easy it is to fool people who badly want to believe things like the pretty young blonde in a Steve Jobs turtleneck is gonna revolutionize the blood testing industry. People wanted to believe it, so they did.

    It's not like the fraud was difficult to catch with normal due diligence. Not one investor or Walgreens (Walgreens!) said hey yeah take my blood and run a test and I'm gonna compare it to an established provider. And I'm gonna watch you put it in your machine and everything.

    Oh, and my other takeaway (which I already had) is how most boards are a total rubberstamp joke, easily controlled by a charismatic CEO.

  15. @Trelane
    For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Kronos, @kaganovitch, @Athenian Gentleman

    For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.

    Isn’t that all of them now?

    • Agree: SafeNow

  16. Was there a retired top hematologist on the Board? It would not matter. The nerdy fellow would have been no match for a Marine General and the rest. “The con style” strikes again.

  17. @Altai

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on.
     
    This has been striking again when you really think about it. The 'insiders' don't really research enough on their own (Nor is anything like a small amount of them actually inclined to research much themselves) and rely on journalists. If no business journalists thought to investigate then nobody will assume anything is awry. They don't know enough chemistry or biology to understand why Theranos was counting it's chickens before the hens had got pregnant let alone laid any eggs. They weren't funding a startup they were funding R&D on an unproven concept that would require far more resources than it was getting. (Lest people forget their chief science officer killed himself and left a suicide note that said "It just doesn't work" and it still took some time after that for journos to get their teeth into the story.)

    Another example is how the business media was all excited and bullish about bitcoin since the rally in late 2020. But despite Tether coming up almost immediately as one of the primary reasons for the sudden rise (Despite neither big institutions nor ordinary people showing much interest prior to the rally itself) the media didn't talk about it until the last few months. As if questions about Tether and how the spot price for bitcoin is set haven't been around for years and years. The company that is supposed to be guarantor of Tethers can't get reputable banking and have to bank with a dodgy banks who don't ask questions. I'm not sure if they are still with the bank in Puerto Rico but though their accounts aren't disclosed the annual banking report for Puerto Rico indicated that even if every cent that entered Puerto Rican banks was to Tether, it wouldn't cover it. And that was when the outstanding Tethers were about 1/10 in number.

    The old line used to be 'nobody knows anything' about Hollywood, I think the news media has earned that line too.

    It's wild because a journalist at a higher level than the ones who were talking about Tether could have gotten a big boost.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on.”

    There most certainly IS an Inner Party, and not only do they know what’s going on, they know it because they are the ones who put “what’s going on” in motion to begin with.

    These sorts of VC shenanigans are just a hobby for the Inner Party, and if they occasionally blow up cartoon-style, no big deal. The Inner Party is focused laser-like on other stuff, and they have better things to do than pat their wannabe billionaire tech baby pet on the head.

    Also, guys like Sam Nunn are not examples of who the Inner Party really are. If you hold elected office, with few exceptions you’re more like the doorman or the valet parking guy: you wear a fancy uniform and a funny hat, and you do what you’re told, and live off of tips.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Well said. Thanks.

    , @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    There most certainly IS an Inner Party
     
    How do you know this? Who are they? What's the nature of their loyalty to each other?

    and not only do they know what’s going on, they know it because they are the ones who put “what’s going on” in motion to begin with.
     
    So everything that happens in the world is preordained by them? They have perfect knowledge of future events?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  18. @Trelane
    For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Kronos, @kaganovitch, @Athenian Gentleman

    If you grew up watching the “Venture Bros” you learned to stay away from the “Dr. Girlfriend” types.

    • LOL: TWS
    • Replies: @Tony massey
    @Kronos

    If you grew up watching go team venture its doubtful you had any clue what was glib or not.
    Greatest gen x show of all time.
    But yeh you can learn alot of useful stuff watching.

    Replies: @Kronos

  19. @Sean
    She is convicted, such good news for Sunny Balwani, who emails used in evidence show she was pathetically devoted to. Although Holmes was really just a front for his fraud he is now going to be able to portray her as a malevolent mastermind. As with Maxwell being the only one in prison for a supposed 'powerful men abusing underage girls scandal'. Females make more interesting villains. If you do wrong, be a nondescript male.

    Replies: @Kronos, @Pericles, @PhysicistDave

    I wonder if the prosecution and\or police had any “Basic Instinct” moments while dealing with Maxwell.

    • LOL: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Kronos


    I wonder if the prosecution and\or police had any “Basic Instinct” moments
     
    Haha, look at Newman trying to play it all cool in front of prime Sharon Stone.

    Replies: @Up2Drew

  20. About their being no inner-party, I am copy-pasting an old comment I left on one of Karlin’s open threads a while back.

    I have been wanting to write an article, called “A MARXIST LENINIST TAKE ON THERANOS”

    the thrust of it would have been that there was no scam, all the elites investing in THERANOS knew it didn’t fucking work, basic biology and investigation would have told you that. but the true prize of THERANOS was the massive amount of health and gene data it would have collected, what Facebook did for individual’s online information, THERANOS was to do for private genetic and health information. The only issue was to convince the FDA to approve the bullshit blood test opening the gate to massive collection of genetic and health information of the public. The elite investors were sure they could pull the strings at the FDA to approve it (the FDA has a record of ceding to industry interest and approving bad drugs and devices), but they couldn’t and they got caught with their pants down and claim they were victims to a scam.

    The scam angle is total bullshit.

    Honestly had the FDA approved it, there would be no problem. THERANOS would be worth a gajillion dollars and would have phased into regular blood tests for tests that required vein blood and possibly put out little devices like smart watches with little strips dug into you wrist for real time blood analysis. it was also going to be a bonanza for Pharmaceutical companies, your little bloodwatch would detect a change and recommend pills or supplements (for a while a big buzzword was nutra-ceuticals) to you, so you could be at your “optimal.” the whole thing is nightmare-ish especially if employers start pushing it on employees, like they did with pedometers.

    • Thanks: Abe
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @anyone with a brain

    anyone with a brain wrote:


    I have been wanting to write an article, called “A MARXIST LENINIST TAKE ON THERANOS”

    the thrust of it would have been that there was no scam, all the elites investing in THERANOS knew it didn’t fucking work, basic biology and investigation would have told you that. but the true prize of THERANOS was the massive amount of health and gene data it would have collected, what Facebook did for individual’s online information, THERANOS was to do for private genetic and health information.
     
    No. I know a number of pathologists who understand the technical issues. It was never going to work at all, even in the way you describe.

    Balwani was a software guy who did not understand hardware. Very typical: the ability to shuffle bits around inside a computer does not prepare someone to deal with real engineering, where physical reality is often just not very cooperative. To put it bluntly, it takes less brains to be Bill Gates than Thomas Edison.

    And Holmes was a college dropout with no significant engineering experience. Again, building an advanced physical device takes real knowledge of physical reality, which requires actual experience.

    Tucker had on a guy tonight who pointed out the absurdity of spending years in a classroom studying bicycles but never actually trying to ride a bike until you finally got out of school.

    And engineering is harder than riding a bike.

    If Holmes, after dropping out of Stanford, had spent a decade working in relevant areas of engineering in the real world.... well, she would at least have known why her proposed device would not work.

    This is the core of my ongoing debate with my pal, Corvinus. Corvy keeps insisting that STEM people surely must engage in his sort of "discourse," address each other's verbal arguments, and all the rest.

    However, the physical world does not care about words, arguments, rules of discourse, and all the rest.

    But, you know, we want to encourage women, and we shouldn't destroy the dreams of the young, and why should we be limited by mere physical reality anyway? And we are churning out millions and millions of people like Corvinus, and giving them actual positions of authority.

    And so we get Theranos.

    Replies: @SimpleSong, @roo_ster, @Alden

    , @Jack D
    @anyone with a brain

    The pharma companies didn't want anything to do with her. She ended up faking their logos on reports that she wrote.

    The big corporation most fooled by her bs was a supermarket chain excited at the thought of being in a high margin business instead of making pennies on a gallon of milk.

  21. This argument against the existence of an Inner Party is a daft non-sequitor.

    • Replies: @Abe
    @Bill


    This argument against the existence of an Inner Party is a daft non-sequitor.
     
    Is it overthinking things to wonder if stuff like Theranos, Jeffrey Epstein, etc, could all be juicy sideshows with lurid villains to distract us from the real Deep State/Inner Party plots going on?

    Replies: @Kronos

  22. There are a lot of other Silicon Valley companies that have over-promised, and not delivered, such as Magic Leap.

    I also thought that proving patient harm would convict her. I thought that the jury might decide that the investors should have scrutinized her better.

  23. @Thomm

    American elites, at least outside of Silicon Valley, are ardently feminist both in terms of expectations and whom they root for. Holmes found a whole bunch of Old White Men who were excited about helping discover The Female Steve Jobs, the first woman tech billionaire founder.
     
    Lets see what sentence she gets. Usually, women get only about one-fifth of the sentence that men get for an identical crime (so much for 'male privilege'), but this is serious in that important people got burned, so the customary leniency on women might be reduced.

    She might actually be held to the standards that a male convict is held to. At least at first. After Kissinger, Schultz, and other old people she swindled pass on, her sentence might be greatly reduced through the restoration of the policy of leniency on women.

    Replies: @Sean

    Nonsense, everyone loves a female villain. Maxwell (mocked at school for her slow reading) was convicted of “trafficking” and will spend the best part of the rest of her life in prison (added to her time in a strip cell without underwear under the strictest jail conditions lack of privacy of any one in pre trial detention in the US) due to lurid pretrial publicity about Pedophile Island and Lolita Express flights there. But who was she orchestrating the trafficking of these under age girls to? Nobody that anyone is interested in bringing to book obviously.

    • Replies: @houston 1992
    @Sean

    "Maxwell (mocked at school for her slow reading) "

    Hmm do you have a link to that ?

    Replies: @Sean

    , @anonymous
    @Sean

    She will be pardoned. Money talks. You buy a psychiatric report, clergy, etc., etc. The “vics”
    are nobodies.

    , @Pericles
    @Sean


    But who was she orchestrating the trafficking of these under age girls to? Nobody that anyone is interested in bringing to book obviously.

     

    I, for one, am quite interested. There appeared to be plenty of evidence so it shouldn't be too hard (oh, if that evidence could just be located again.) And furthermore, who was she orchestrating for, if you see my point?

    We can however be certain that your princess Ghislaine does not in any way want a public investigation -- she will very much prefer to keep her mouth shut in prison for a decent but short time then slither off and forever stonewall all inquiries. But I expect there to be a decent media effort at salvaging her reputation afterwards.

    Replies: @TWS

  24. @Kronos
    @Trelane

    If you grew up watching the “Venture Bros” you learned to stay away from the “Dr. Girlfriend” types.

    https://youtu.be/0LOEFm6oIdY

    Replies: @Tony massey

    If you grew up watching go team venture its doubtful you had any clue what was glib or not.
    Greatest gen x show of all time.
    But yeh you can learn alot of useful stuff watching.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Tony massey

    My parents made the best mistake ever by putting a decent television in my bedroom. As a young millennial I indulged in late Gen X devised content from Comedy Central and Adult Swim (which isn’t a porn thing.) I loved watching the misadventures of Dr. Rusty Venture. I loved my irony thick! Probably my favorite character was “Action Johnny” a spoof on Johnny Quest. That realistically, bringing your son on countless dangerous adventures might give him PTSD and turn him into a adult mental wreck.

    https://youtu.be/9DgM6VrxNE4

  25. There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.

    I don’t know – this seems like the near perfect confidence trick to hack an ethically compromised “inner party” to receive its imprimatur, because all of these guys need everybody else to think they know what is going on, but if you’re one of them (and you don’t know what is going on) but you get in a room with Shultz, Perry, Kissinger, Frist, Nunn, etc. and they’re all rather convincingly pretending to know what’s going on too maybe you just think to yourself “look like you know what the hell is going on, Jim, but it must be something real if Shultz, Perry, Kissinger, Nunn and Frist all think it’s the next big thing – just shut up and collect the checks dummy.” Other than Frist, none of these people to my knowledge have any medical or technical expertise, and are more in the mold of executives who are comfortable with others worrying about details and getting them the Reader’s Digest versions of complicated matters so that they can make decisions.

  26. @pirelli
    I’d imagine the not guilty verdicts on the counts for defrauding patients reflect the fact that it was much harder for the prosecution to prove *intent* on those counts, that is, that Holmes intended for the patients to act on her misrepresentations. But admittedly I know nothing about the legal specifics of the case and haven’t read any analysis yet. Fascinating backstory to the whole thing though, especially the part about George Schulz’s grandson.

    Replies: @pirelli, @Ripple Earthdevil

    I haven’t followed it closely so what’s the deal with Shultz’s grandson?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    Ripple Earthdevi


    l asked:I haven’t followed it closely so what’s the deal with Shultz’s grandson?
     
    My wife is friends with Erika Cheung, one of the whistle-blowers who testified in the case and who was a co-worker with Tyler Shultz.

    The bastards at Theranos put these kids through Hell: the whistleblowers had good reason to be afraid for their physical safety.

    Read Carreyrou's Bad Blood, which tells part of the story.

    Our ruling elite is very ruthless and very arrogant.

    And also, as it turns out, very, very stupid.

    To be ruled by Peter the Great can be a bit scary. But to be ruled by Beavis and Butt-head...

    God help the United States of America.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    , @HA
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    "I haven’t followed it closely so what’s the deal with Shultz’s grandson?"

    As of 3 years ago, they were reconciled.

    Replies: @HA

  27. @usNthem
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Could be. On the other hand, it could have been plain old fashioned T & A to a bunch of wealthy, lecherous old goats.

    Replies: @Uncle Dan, @Abelard Lindsey, @Moses

    There’s no fool like an old fool.

  28. @Kronos
    @Sean

    I wonder if the prosecution and\or police had any “Basic Instinct” moments while dealing with Maxwell.

    https://youtu.be/pkoSoYGLwVI

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    I wonder if the prosecution and\or police had any “Basic Instinct” moments

    Haha, look at Newman trying to play it all cool in front of prime Sharon Stone.

    • Replies: @Up2Drew
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I have multiple Chicago cops in my circle of family and friends, and they mocked the Basic Instinct scene. The narrative was: If you think that big city vice and violent crime police would be unnerved by a suspect flashing the interrogators, with what they've seen on the job, you're crazy.

    Replies: @Kronos

  29. @Bill
    This argument against the existence of an Inner Party is a daft non-sequitor.

    Replies: @Abe

    This argument against the existence of an Inner Party is a daft non-sequitor.

    Is it overthinking things to wonder if stuff like Theranos, Jeffrey Epstein, etc, could all be juicy sideshows with lurid villains to distract us from the real Deep State/Inner Party plots going on?

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Abe

    It really might be factions of the inner party trying to destroy each other. Remember, the Jeffery Epstein story was published by (I think) the Daily Beast like 10 years ago. But 3-4 years ago the MSM desided to circulate it and stuff finally started to happen. Which factions are fighting who is still largely unknown.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Abe

  30. @Sean
    @Thomm

    Nonsense, everyone loves a female villain. Maxwell (mocked at school for her slow reading) was convicted of "trafficking" and will spend the best part of the rest of her life in prison (added to her time in a strip cell without underwear under the strictest jail conditions lack of privacy of any one in pre trial detention in the US) due to lurid pretrial publicity about Pedophile Island and Lolita Express flights there. But who was she orchestrating the trafficking of these under age girls to? Nobody that anyone is interested in bringing to book obviously.

    Replies: @houston 1992, @anonymous, @Pericles

    “Maxwell (mocked at school for her slow reading) ”

    Hmm do you have a link to that ?

    • Replies: @Sean
    @houston 1992

    Article by Camila Long, who went to the same school. Maxwell's haltingly delivered TED talk is pretty good evidence too. As is her not leaving the US for France, which she could not have been been extradited from, during the several months she was free to do so. All media assumed she had left the US. What an idiot! Apart from the detention in an anti suicide turtle suit and being woke up every hour to check she was alive, very difficult to fight a case from jail. They probably had her on meds.

    Replies: @Alden

  31. On the bright side, Holmes proved that women can commit fraud just as good as men. #genderequality

  32. @Sean
    @Thomm

    Nonsense, everyone loves a female villain. Maxwell (mocked at school for her slow reading) was convicted of "trafficking" and will spend the best part of the rest of her life in prison (added to her time in a strip cell without underwear under the strictest jail conditions lack of privacy of any one in pre trial detention in the US) due to lurid pretrial publicity about Pedophile Island and Lolita Express flights there. But who was she orchestrating the trafficking of these under age girls to? Nobody that anyone is interested in bringing to book obviously.

    Replies: @houston 1992, @anonymous, @Pericles

    She will be pardoned. Money talks. You buy a psychiatric report, clergy, etc., etc. The “vics”
    are nobodies.

    • Disagree: Jack D
  33. “… But the jury saw the law the other way around.”

    Holmes didn’t deal directly with the patients. See here for example:

    “Ring said the charges related to the patients looked more difficult to prove from the outset because Holmes never directly communicated with them, as she did with investors.”

  34. @Abe
    @Bill


    This argument against the existence of an Inner Party is a daft non-sequitor.
     
    Is it overthinking things to wonder if stuff like Theranos, Jeffrey Epstein, etc, could all be juicy sideshows with lurid villains to distract us from the real Deep State/Inner Party plots going on?

    Replies: @Kronos

    It really might be factions of the inner party trying to destroy each other. Remember, the Jeffery Epstein story was published by (I think) the Daily Beast like 10 years ago. But 3-4 years ago the MSM desided to circulate it and stuff finally started to happen. Which factions are fighting who is still largely unknown.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Kronos


    the Jeffery Epstein story was published by (I think) the Daily Beast like 10 years ago.
     
    The Daily Mail?

    From what I've seen, the Daily Beast is just another reactive NYC rag with sanitized takes palatable to lefty UMC strivers. UK's Daily Mail, by contrast, employs actual investigative journalists who occasionally break new ground in a story, at least in the US, maybe they are more timid in their homeland.

    Replies: @Kronos, @guest007

    , @Abe
    @Kronos


    It really might be factions of the inner party trying to destroy each other.
     
    That makes sense, as the explosion and then sudden conversion-therapy successful treatment of so many former-“Cuomosexuals” attests (I just learned that until very recently MSM-loving liberals could buy dozens of swag items- mugs, etc.- featuring a bare-chested/Michaelangelo’s DAVID-emulating Chris Cuomo on them, in an over-the-top-ironic-not-really-ironic man-love tribute to him). The Kamala Faction I guess needed to bump off any credible challengers, and if that made most parts of the Cuomo-puffing media look like complete fools, well it was a price they were willing to let them pay.
  35. three counts of wire fraud

    She used a [cellphone, laptop, etc.] to send [text messages, e-mails, etc.] containing content that the government disliked.

    one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud

    She told someone that she intended to e-send content TTGD.

    Speech crimes. The lawyer-USAs are completely out of control.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Abolish_public_education

    You can steal a lot more with keyboard you can with a gun. Is ransomware a speech crime?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  36. There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on.

    This point needs to be hammered on. It’s funny that so many dissidents imagine Super Smart Evil People running a plan of world domination with perfect knowledge.

    Yes elite folks are motivated by fame, power and money. Yes they collude (just like they do in small towns). But they are often Keystone Cops, not Bond supervillains.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
  37. Sailer wrote:

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.

    When I was at Stanford, I was friends with some guys who had been Congressional interns: they said the stupidity of the “members” was quite impressive.

    My wife once had a chance to meet in a small group with our then Congressman, Bob Matsui. It was not clear if Matsui was dumb as the day is long or simply did not give a damn about any actual facts.

    I myself was once in a larger group where Matsui was the speaker. He kept going on and on about the lack of comedy in Congress. It took me about fifteen minutes to figure out he was saying “comity” — it turned out that what he meant was that some members of the GOP actually had principles.

    Yes, the current system is not 1984. It’s Idiocracy.

    • Agree: Jack D
    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @PhysicistDave

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV but also for some Congressional bloviations. For the whole time that our illiterate journalists were decrying Donald Trump's gaffes I was unable to forget what I had observed in previous years of perfethinnel congresscritters attempting to form English sentences. I didn't even include that one guy who was worried about Guam capsizing because I didn't see that one live.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @Abolish_public_education, @Bill Jones

    , @Twinkie
    @PhysicistDave


    When I was at Stanford, I was friends with some guys who had been Congressional interns: they said the stupidity of the “members” was quite impressive.
     
    I worked on the Hill for a bit.

    Let me put it this way: watch VEEP on HBO. It is the most accurate portrayal of the lives of pols and pol-wannabes in D.C. ever made. Pure, naked greed for power and influence combined with utter, utter incompetence.

    D.C. is literally a city of whores. And I don't mean that figuratively. There are literally whores - women who sell their bodies for actual cash (and those are the honest kind) as well as those who do so for jobs and, more saliently, proximity to power. If you have even a little bit of political influence and show up at Rayburn, you will be mobbed by a throng of young women freshly out of college working for various members who want to take advantage of you and use you as a ladder - even if you were married.

    Now, you might ask, what about all those men with Ivy League degrees and top shelf credentials? Oh, they are there. It's just that when there is power and influence at stake, those men lose about 20 points of their IQ and become delusional fools - just as most such men would be at a gambling table in Las Vegas. Add the availability of easy girls, they are just ripe for the fall, which, of course, occurs frequently. (There is also an inordinate amount of obsequious groveling to those with actual power in an effort to obtain influence that is pathetic and degrading to watch.)

    After a while, I told my wife I had to get off the Hill and do something real. I told her that every day I worked in that den of thieves and whores, my soul was dying bit by bit.

    Yes, the current system is not 1984. It’s Idiocracy.
     
    I wasn't there in 1984, but from all the lore I was privy to, I can tell you it was no better then. If anything, it was probably worse. There was more opaqueness in the past and shielded all kinds of outlandish shenanigans from the public scrutiny (I once had a boss who was a senior figure at the Reagan White House and he told me some crazy stories).

    Replies: @Warner, @Curle

    , @stillCARealist
    @PhysicistDave

    I've been in social situations with my congressman, Tom McClintock, several times. He's quite intelligent and informed. But, then, he is a right-wing Republican (with libertarian leanings).

    Matsewage passed on his seat to his wife after he kicked, and the lame voters went right along with it. As long as it's a Democrat, who cares!

    Replies: @Jack D, @PhysicistDave

  38. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Altai

    "There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on."

    There most certainly IS an Inner Party, and not only do they know what's going on, they know it because they are the ones who put "what's going on" in motion to begin with.

    These sorts of VC shenanigans are just a hobby for the Inner Party, and if they occasionally blow up cartoon-style, no big deal. The Inner Party is focused laser-like on other stuff, and they have better things to do than pat their wannabe billionaire tech baby pet on the head.

    Also, guys like Sam Nunn are not examples of who the Inner Party really are. If you hold elected office, with few exceptions you're more like the doorman or the valet parking guy: you wear a fancy uniform and a funny hat, and you do what you're told, and live off of tips.

    Replies: @Cortes, @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Well said. Thanks.

  39. Article by Yale pathologist – – his colleagues were skeptical but quiet about Theranos from the beginning. He ducks their responsibility..journalists did not seek us out.

    https://www.healthnewsreview.org/2018/06/pathologists-predicted-the-theranos-debacle-but-their-voices-were-missing-from-most-news-coverage/

    We see the keep-your-head-down behavior ofthe elite faculty once again, with the pandemic.

    • Thanks: Emil Nikola Richard
  40. @Ripple Earthdevil
    @pirelli

    I haven't followed it closely so what's the deal with Shultz's grandson?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @HA

    Ripple Earthdevi

    l asked:I haven’t followed it closely so what’s the deal with Shultz’s grandson?

    My wife is friends with Erika Cheung, one of the whistle-blowers who testified in the case and who was a co-worker with Tyler Shultz.

    The bastards at Theranos put these kids through Hell: the whistleblowers had good reason to be afraid for their physical safety.

    Read Carreyrou’s Bad Blood, which tells part of the story.

    Our ruling elite is very ruthless and very arrogant.

    And also, as it turns out, very, very stupid.

    To be ruled by Peter the Great can be a bit scary. But to be ruled by Beavis and Butt-head…

    God help the United States of America.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @PhysicistDave

    Yes, I agree. Our elites have regressed to become at least as stupid as they are ruthless.

    I've dealt with stupid people and ruthless people. In some ways, it's easier to deal with (or avoid dealing with, or hedge against) ruthless people. Stupid is like wrestling Jell-o though. And the combo of stupid and ruthless is just awful; human wrecking balls, destroying any potential for social trust so markets can function. E.g., Lebanon.

    I keep coming back to the comment I saw here, that Eisenhower v. Stevenson was the last electoral campaign between two intelligent, principled and patriotic politicians in the US.

    Nixon was intelligent, and his little hush-money scheme pales in comparison to W's pretextual war against Iraq.

    Reagan's Cabinet had some intellectual heft.

    Trump was a lot smarter than people thought. But he was a bombastic New York developer with no friends.

    Eventually (one hopes) we get a smarter elite that realizes it's no fun to raise your grandkids in Brazil, even if you're rich. But right now everybody is focused on stealing everything that isn't nailed down.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @northeast, @Rob

  41. @anyone with a brain
    About their being no inner-party, I am copy-pasting an old comment I left on one of Karlin's open threads a while back.

    I have been wanting to write an article, called “A MARXIST LENINIST TAKE ON THERANOS”

    the thrust of it would have been that there was no scam, all the elites investing in THERANOS knew it didn’t fucking work, basic biology and investigation would have told you that. but the true prize of THERANOS was the massive amount of health and gene data it would have collected, what Facebook did for individual's online information, THERANOS was to do for private genetic and health information. The only issue was to convince the FDA to approve the bullshit blood test opening the gate to massive collection of genetic and health information of the public. The elite investors were sure they could pull the strings at the FDA to approve it (the FDA has a record of ceding to industry interest and approving bad drugs and devices), but they couldn’t and they got caught with their pants down and claim they were victims to a scam.

    The scam angle is total bullshit.

    Honestly had the FDA approved it, there would be no problem. THERANOS would be worth a gajillion dollars and would have phased into regular blood tests for tests that required vein blood and possibly put out little devices like smart watches with little strips dug into you wrist for real time blood analysis. it was also going to be a bonanza for Pharmaceutical companies, your little bloodwatch would detect a change and recommend pills or supplements (for a while a big buzzword was nutra-ceuticals) to you, so you could be at your “optimal.” the whole thing is nightmare-ish especially if employers start pushing it on employees, like they did with pedometers.

     

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Jack D

    anyone with a brain wrote:

    I have been wanting to write an article, called “A MARXIST LENINIST TAKE ON THERANOS”

    the thrust of it would have been that there was no scam, all the elites investing in THERANOS knew it didn’t fucking work, basic biology and investigation would have told you that. but the true prize of THERANOS was the massive amount of health and gene data it would have collected, what Facebook did for individual’s online information, THERANOS was to do for private genetic and health information.

    No. I know a number of pathologists who understand the technical issues. It was never going to work at all, even in the way you describe.

    Balwani was a software guy who did not understand hardware. Very typical: the ability to shuffle bits around inside a computer does not prepare someone to deal with real engineering, where physical reality is often just not very cooperative. To put it bluntly, it takes less brains to be Bill Gates than Thomas Edison.

    And Holmes was a college dropout with no significant engineering experience. Again, building an advanced physical device takes real knowledge of physical reality, which requires actual experience.

    Tucker had on a guy tonight who pointed out the absurdity of spending years in a classroom studying bicycles but never actually trying to ride a bike until you finally got out of school.

    And engineering is harder than riding a bike.

    If Holmes, after dropping out of Stanford, had spent a decade working in relevant areas of engineering in the real world…. well, she would at least have known why her proposed device would not work.

    This is the core of my ongoing debate with my pal, Corvinus. Corvy keeps insisting that STEM people surely must engage in his sort of “discourse,” address each other’s verbal arguments, and all the rest.

    However, the physical world does not care about words, arguments, rules of discourse, and all the rest.

    But, you know, we want to encourage women, and we shouldn’t destroy the dreams of the young, and why should we be limited by mere physical reality anyway? And we are churning out millions and millions of people like Corvinus, and giving them actual positions of authority.

    And so we get Theranos.

    • Thanks: Old Prude
    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    @PhysicistDave

    Agree, good comment.

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn't going to work. A first year med student should be able to quickly spot why this won't work. The old army guys have an excuse for being dumb, but Frist has no excuse, he comes off as a meat mechanic who turned his brain off at age 28.

    To summarize why it won't work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different. Sodium concentrations are very high outside the cell, very low inside the cell, potassium is the opposite. Some things like glucose are the same on both sides. We are usually interested in the concentrations outside the cell.

    When you stick a needle in someone you cut open a bunch of cells on the way to the vein and their contents leak out, but the blood plasma dilutes the disembowled cells so they don't mess up the values too much.

    But if you just do a fingerstick, there is no dilution, and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.

    Now for something like glucose, that is the same concentration on the inside and outside of the cell, this doesn't matter, so you can do fingerstick glucose checks. But most things you are interested in, this is not going to work.

    Also many things we measure have such low concentrations that you just simply need a certain amount of blood to get accurate measurements; there's no real way around this. Or rather, there may be ways of making each test more accurate so you can use a smaller sample size, BUT the techniques for improving accuracy are unique for each test. There's no known overarching technology to magically make all kinds of wildly different labs measuring wildly different things work better across the board. Things like glucose have a high enough concentration that you just need a drop, but most tests are measuring orders of magnitude lower concentrations, so logically you need orders of magnitude more blood.

    Aside from Frist there was a Stanford Chem Eng professor who seems to have been taken in, who should have known better. Those two should be laughingstocks.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Abelard Lindsey, @Jack D

    , @roo_ster
    @PhysicistDave


    Balwani was a software guy who did not understand hardware. Very typical: the ability to shuffle bits around inside a computer does not prepare someone to deal with real engineering, where physical reality is often just not very cooperative. To put it bluntly, it takes less brains to be Bill Gates than Thomas Edison.
     
    This, x1000.

    Lord save me from software guys who made it into management without any hands-on with hardware or that great big mystery place known to pasty coders as "The Outdoors."

    The worst of the lot are those where mediocre coders, but present well(1), and get promoted into management. So they never even had to construct much using only code.


    (1) Can market, may be affable, may have diversity pokemon points (not mutually exclusive)
    , @Alden
    @PhysicistDave

    Holmes might have worked with some kind of engineer, a medical person and a machinist?? the person someone who actually made the prototype device.

    Thanks for all your informative comments especially about Ms Cheung

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

  42. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Altai

    "There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on."

    There most certainly IS an Inner Party, and not only do they know what's going on, they know it because they are the ones who put "what's going on" in motion to begin with.

    These sorts of VC shenanigans are just a hobby for the Inner Party, and if they occasionally blow up cartoon-style, no big deal. The Inner Party is focused laser-like on other stuff, and they have better things to do than pat their wannabe billionaire tech baby pet on the head.

    Also, guys like Sam Nunn are not examples of who the Inner Party really are. If you hold elected office, with few exceptions you're more like the doorman or the valet parking guy: you wear a fancy uniform and a funny hat, and you do what you're told, and live off of tips.

    Replies: @Cortes, @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    There most certainly IS an Inner Party

    How do you know this? Who are they? What’s the nature of their loyalty to each other?

    and not only do they know what’s going on, they know it because they are the ones who put “what’s going on” in motion to begin with.

    So everything that happens in the world is preordained by them? They have perfect knowledge of future events?

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    "So everything that happens in the world is preordained by them? They have perfect knowledge of future events?"

    Yes! Yes!! And what's worse --- they even know what "reductio ad absurdum" means, and you don't.

    Quelle avantage!

  43. @PhysicistDave
    @anyone with a brain

    anyone with a brain wrote:


    I have been wanting to write an article, called “A MARXIST LENINIST TAKE ON THERANOS”

    the thrust of it would have been that there was no scam, all the elites investing in THERANOS knew it didn’t fucking work, basic biology and investigation would have told you that. but the true prize of THERANOS was the massive amount of health and gene data it would have collected, what Facebook did for individual’s online information, THERANOS was to do for private genetic and health information.
     
    No. I know a number of pathologists who understand the technical issues. It was never going to work at all, even in the way you describe.

    Balwani was a software guy who did not understand hardware. Very typical: the ability to shuffle bits around inside a computer does not prepare someone to deal with real engineering, where physical reality is often just not very cooperative. To put it bluntly, it takes less brains to be Bill Gates than Thomas Edison.

    And Holmes was a college dropout with no significant engineering experience. Again, building an advanced physical device takes real knowledge of physical reality, which requires actual experience.

    Tucker had on a guy tonight who pointed out the absurdity of spending years in a classroom studying bicycles but never actually trying to ride a bike until you finally got out of school.

    And engineering is harder than riding a bike.

    If Holmes, after dropping out of Stanford, had spent a decade working in relevant areas of engineering in the real world.... well, she would at least have known why her proposed device would not work.

    This is the core of my ongoing debate with my pal, Corvinus. Corvy keeps insisting that STEM people surely must engage in his sort of "discourse," address each other's verbal arguments, and all the rest.

    However, the physical world does not care about words, arguments, rules of discourse, and all the rest.

    But, you know, we want to encourage women, and we shouldn't destroy the dreams of the young, and why should we be limited by mere physical reality anyway? And we are churning out millions and millions of people like Corvinus, and giving them actual positions of authority.

    And so we get Theranos.

    Replies: @SimpleSong, @roo_ster, @Alden

    Agree, good comment.

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn’t going to work. A first year med student should be able to quickly spot why this won’t work. The old army guys have an excuse for being dumb, but Frist has no excuse, he comes off as a meat mechanic who turned his brain off at age 28.

    To summarize why it won’t work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different. Sodium concentrations are very high outside the cell, very low inside the cell, potassium is the opposite. Some things like glucose are the same on both sides. We are usually interested in the concentrations outside the cell.

    When you stick a needle in someone you cut open a bunch of cells on the way to the vein and their contents leak out, but the blood plasma dilutes the disembowled cells so they don’t mess up the values too much.

    But if you just do a fingerstick, there is no dilution, and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.

    Now for something like glucose, that is the same concentration on the inside and outside of the cell, this doesn’t matter, so you can do fingerstick glucose checks. But most things you are interested in, this is not going to work.

    Also many things we measure have such low concentrations that you just simply need a certain amount of blood to get accurate measurements; there’s no real way around this. Or rather, there may be ways of making each test more accurate so you can use a smaller sample size, BUT the techniques for improving accuracy are unique for each test. There’s no known overarching technology to magically make all kinds of wildly different labs measuring wildly different things work better across the board. Things like glucose have a high enough concentration that you just need a drop, but most tests are measuring orders of magnitude lower concentrations, so logically you need orders of magnitude more blood.

    Aside from Frist there was a Stanford Chem Eng professor who seems to have been taken in, who should have known better. Those two should be laughingstocks.

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @SimpleSong

    SimpleSong wrote:


    To summarize why it won’t work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different....[etc.]

     

    Yeah, the details you laid out are pretty much what I have heard from the biomed folks I have discussed this with.

    I'd add to this that the basic MechE work that had to be done, largely the microfluidics, was pretty challenging too.

    People who have not been involved with hard-core STEM R&D tend to underestimate the herculean efforts required to make even modest steps forward.

    When I was at Stanford, I was close friends with Phil Salin, who was the main business guy for one of the earliest of the private rocket companies. Their business model seemed to be to try to get a few of their bright friends together to shoot a rocket into space.

    I tried to explain to them that it was not that easy: Phil was specifically focused on the propellant, but there are lots of other difficult issues, notably the control system (rockets are balanced on their exhaust -- they have a tendency to go awry!). I told them that they needed people with actual experience from the aerospace industry, NASA, etc.

    Phil and his friends -- who were indeed very bright guys -- were very dismissive of that suggestion.

    Needless to say, their company failed.

    On the other hand, they did not defraud investors -- much less medical patients -- as Holmes did.

    By the way, personally Phil was a great guy, something I do not think can be said of Holmes.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Art Deco
    @SimpleSong

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn’t going to work.

    He's a surgeon, not a biochemist.

    Replies: @SimpleSong

    , @Wilkey
    @SimpleSong

    The immediate non-scientific analogy that comes to mind is polling data, which anyone with experience in politics would have easily understood. If Elizabeth Holmes had come to these men and said she could predict election results based on ten randomly chosen people they would have laughed her out of the room.

    It always seemed to me that for her device to work it would have required not one major scientific advance, but 10 or 20 or 100. All she apparently did was say “Hey, let’s use smaller sample sizes!” as if none of the millions of people in the healthcare industry had ever thought of that.

    , @Abelard Lindsey
    @SimpleSong

    Bill Frist was the Senator who had to drop out at the end of his term because of claims he made about the Terry Schiavo case that turned out not to be true, and known at the time he made them. So I am not so surprised he was snowed by Elizabeth Holmes.

    , @Jack D
    @SimpleSong


    and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.
     
    I don't rule out that what she was trying to do will someday be doable. It's just that she never did it or got close to doing it (well somewhat close - the machine was apparently able to do some limited # of tests with some (although a subpar) level of accuracy.

    There are some molecules (in addition to glucose) where the levels inside the cell and outside the cell are similar. In the case of others, maybe statistical techniques could be used based upon some assumed average level of mixing or dilution that would get you close enough.

    If she hadn't lied about the results that they had ACTUALLY achieved (rather than HOPING to achieve) then she wouldn't be going to prison. In her testimony, she said that these people were giving her the $ based on what she would be doing in 5 years, not on what she was doing now.

    But at some point she and Sunny realized that they were never going to make it to 5 years unless they started lying in order to bring in revenue from current operations (the labs that they set up in Walgreens and Safeway) and additional rounds of funding.

    She had already, in accordance with the teaching of her role model Jobs, adopted a culture of secrecy ("so that your competitors don't steal your innovations") so it was relatively easy to start lying and whenever anyone asked probing questions it was "sorry we can't tell you that's a trade secret".

    Really rich guys were throwing money at them so if anyone was too persistent in asking questions they would just drop them and the next rich guy was afraid to ask questions because he knew that if he asked too many he wouldn't be given the "opportunity" to invest and make tons of $ in the future. Madoff played on the same psychology.

  44. @Jack D
    1. If you look at the counts she was convicted on, they were the really serious ones in terms of $ - wire fraud of $99 million, etc. Acquitted of the minor counts such as giving $45 faulty blood test results to patients.

    2. These counts EACH carry prison terms up to 20 years. Unless you are Madoff, these are usually served concurrently, so 3 counts of fraud get you (almost) as much time as 7 counts. Juries often don't realize this and will "compromise" by spitting the verdict. This does the defendant little good.

    3. She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years. Maybe something like 2 to 5 years. 7 would be the absolute maximum but I'd be surprised if she got that much. That's my prediction. Meanwhile her lawyers will drag the appeals out for years.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Ghost of Bull Moose, @Alden, @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman

    “She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady…”

    Are you sure she’s nice?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    As convicted felons go....

    , @Clyde
    @Ghost of Bull Moose


    Are you sure she’s nice?
     
    Very nice outwardly, enough to sucker in rich white guys. The big lie from the beginning is that you need a few vials of venous blood for proper testing. A drop of blood from a pricked finger/ what Theranos used/ is capillary blood.

    A pretty enough nice liar. She traded off her looks and her Steve Jobs imitation, presentation. As the Kinks song goes.--- Ya gotta give the people what they want.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGcwpJgge6g

    Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose

    , @kaganovitch
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Are you sure she’s nice?

    "Nice White lady" is a term of art. Very loosely, it means something along the lines of 'clubbable'.

  45. @Sean
    She is convicted, such good news for Sunny Balwani, who emails used in evidence show she was pathetically devoted to. Although Holmes was really just a front for his fraud he is now going to be able to portray her as a malevolent mastermind. As with Maxwell being the only one in prison for a supposed 'powerful men abusing underage girls scandal'. Females make more interesting villains. If you do wrong, be a nondescript male.

    Replies: @Kronos, @Pericles, @PhysicistDave

    As with Maxwell being the only one in prison for a supposed ‘powerful men abusing underage girls scandal’.

    Well, Epstein was locked up until he didn’t kill himself.

    • Thanks: HammerJack
    • LOL: Old Prude, TWS
  46. @PhysicistDave
    Sailer wrote:

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.
     
    When I was at Stanford, I was friends with some guys who had been Congressional interns: they said the stupidity of the "members" was quite impressive.

    My wife once had a chance to meet in a small group with our then Congressman, Bob Matsui. It was not clear if Matsui was dumb as the day is long or simply did not give a damn about any actual facts.

    I myself was once in a larger group where Matsui was the speaker. He kept going on and on about the lack of comedy in Congress. It took me about fifteen minutes to figure out he was saying "comity" -- it turned out that what he meant was that some members of the GOP actually had principles.

    Yes, the current system is not 1984. It's Idiocracy.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Twinkie, @stillCARealist

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV but also for some Congressional bloviations. For the whole time that our illiterate journalists were decrying Donald Trump’s gaffes I was unable to forget what I had observed in previous years of perfethinnel congresscritters attempting to form English sentences. I didn’t even include that one guy who was worried about Guam capsizing because I didn’t see that one live.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @J.Ross

    what does "perfethinnel" mean? google doesn't recognize it, but that could be their problem, not yours.

    I like new words. Come up with a cool definition and coin it.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Abolish_public_education
    @J.Ross

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV.

    BTV was "must see" back when Brian Lamb was hosting the show. BL had good taste: The authors chosen (by him?) to appear as guests were generally eloquent. They were true unknowns (i.e. not Orpah-approved) whose work would be otherwise invisible. BL had his gimmick question ("Why did you dedicate the book to ... ?") and deadpan. The only time I ever saw BL get agitated (squirm!) was while he was listening to his guest defend a section of the text that called for making big cuts to the USN budget; I believe BL was ex-USMC.

    I stopped watching the show soon after he left. The sorts of guests that were chosen changed over to established authors (opinion molders) -- themselves and their conventional ideas already well known to a popular, TV viewing audience. I think the (new, for a while) show format is to use celebrity hosts: It's a dull, mutual adoration hour that promotes the usual, Big Government line.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @J.Ross

    , @Bill Jones
    @J.Ross

    I did see the Guam "gaffe" and, loathe though I am to defend the congressional filth it did seem to be an attempt at humor pegged to the idea (not wholly false) that the function of Guam was to be the worlds largest Aircraft Carrier.

  47. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Jack D

    "She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady..."

    Are you sure she's nice?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Clyde, @kaganovitch

    As convicted felons go….

    • LOL: PhysicistDave
  48. @Sean
    @Thomm

    Nonsense, everyone loves a female villain. Maxwell (mocked at school for her slow reading) was convicted of "trafficking" and will spend the best part of the rest of her life in prison (added to her time in a strip cell without underwear under the strictest jail conditions lack of privacy of any one in pre trial detention in the US) due to lurid pretrial publicity about Pedophile Island and Lolita Express flights there. But who was she orchestrating the trafficking of these under age girls to? Nobody that anyone is interested in bringing to book obviously.

    Replies: @houston 1992, @anonymous, @Pericles

    But who was she orchestrating the trafficking of these under age girls to? Nobody that anyone is interested in bringing to book obviously.

    I, for one, am quite interested. There appeared to be plenty of evidence so it shouldn’t be too hard (oh, if that evidence could just be located again.) And furthermore, who was she orchestrating for, if you see my point?

    We can however be certain that your princess Ghislaine does not in any way want a public investigation — she will very much prefer to keep her mouth shut in prison for a decent but short time then slither off and forever stonewall all inquiries. But I expect there to be a decent media effort at salvaging her reputation afterwards.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @Pericles

    Not being suicided is always an incentive to clam up. She really is a victim if you're inclined to fuzzy thinking and squint just right

  49. @anyone with a brain
    About their being no inner-party, I am copy-pasting an old comment I left on one of Karlin's open threads a while back.

    I have been wanting to write an article, called “A MARXIST LENINIST TAKE ON THERANOS”

    the thrust of it would have been that there was no scam, all the elites investing in THERANOS knew it didn’t fucking work, basic biology and investigation would have told you that. but the true prize of THERANOS was the massive amount of health and gene data it would have collected, what Facebook did for individual's online information, THERANOS was to do for private genetic and health information. The only issue was to convince the FDA to approve the bullshit blood test opening the gate to massive collection of genetic and health information of the public. The elite investors were sure they could pull the strings at the FDA to approve it (the FDA has a record of ceding to industry interest and approving bad drugs and devices), but they couldn’t and they got caught with their pants down and claim they were victims to a scam.

    The scam angle is total bullshit.

    Honestly had the FDA approved it, there would be no problem. THERANOS would be worth a gajillion dollars and would have phased into regular blood tests for tests that required vein blood and possibly put out little devices like smart watches with little strips dug into you wrist for real time blood analysis. it was also going to be a bonanza for Pharmaceutical companies, your little bloodwatch would detect a change and recommend pills or supplements (for a while a big buzzword was nutra-ceuticals) to you, so you could be at your “optimal.” the whole thing is nightmare-ish especially if employers start pushing it on employees, like they did with pedometers.

     

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Jack D

    The pharma companies didn’t want anything to do with her. She ended up faking their logos on reports that she wrote.

    The big corporation most fooled by her bs was a supermarket chain excited at the thought of being in a high margin business instead of making pennies on a gallon of milk.

  50. @R.G. Camara
    @Jack D


    She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years
     
    She also (very smartly and sociopathically) got herself pregnant by her brand-new rich husband during the federal investigation/prosecution. That will not only get her time reduced to "keep families together", but also send her to the cushiest of cushy federal prisons -- for nursing mothers and mothers of infants, because we want to make sure children and their mothers bond. She might even get furloughed every weekend to raise the child at home.

    Replies: @puttheforkdown, @Twinkie, @neprof

    I like the idea of mandatory abortions for confirmed sociopaths. If I were king for a day…

  51. @Abolish_public_education
    three counts of wire fraud

    She used a [cellphone, laptop, etc.] to send [text messages, e-mails, etc.] containing content that the government disliked.

    one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud

    She told someone that she intended to e-send content TTGD.

    Speech crimes. The lawyer-USAs are completely out of control.

    Replies: @Jack D

    You can steal a lot more with keyboard you can with a gun. Is ransomware a speech crime?

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @Jack D

    Is ransomware a speech crime?

    A quick search reveals that the [USDOJ] investigates ransomware attacks.

    Under our system, the speech crime of [extortion] is meant to be prosecuted at the state level. It's always the same story: USAs asserting that some incidental element of a crime ("The [speech] was transmitted across state lines!") gives them jurisdiction.

    Under our system, the federal government is not allowed to outlaw any kind of speech.

    • "Take this plane to Cuba or else!" should not elevate to the federal crime of piracy until some overt act or signal, on the part of the passenger, convinces the pilot to change course.

    • "Let me get on this flight to Cuba, unmasked, or else I'll punch your lights out!" is a state [speech] crime of assault.

    (If two drunks on an overseas flight out of the US, over the open water, start killing each other, let the darn unrulies face criminal charges in the state where they lifted off. No more of this "cross state lines" baloney.)

  52. @SimpleSong
    @PhysicistDave

    Agree, good comment.

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn't going to work. A first year med student should be able to quickly spot why this won't work. The old army guys have an excuse for being dumb, but Frist has no excuse, he comes off as a meat mechanic who turned his brain off at age 28.

    To summarize why it won't work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different. Sodium concentrations are very high outside the cell, very low inside the cell, potassium is the opposite. Some things like glucose are the same on both sides. We are usually interested in the concentrations outside the cell.

    When you stick a needle in someone you cut open a bunch of cells on the way to the vein and their contents leak out, but the blood plasma dilutes the disembowled cells so they don't mess up the values too much.

    But if you just do a fingerstick, there is no dilution, and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.

    Now for something like glucose, that is the same concentration on the inside and outside of the cell, this doesn't matter, so you can do fingerstick glucose checks. But most things you are interested in, this is not going to work.

    Also many things we measure have such low concentrations that you just simply need a certain amount of blood to get accurate measurements; there's no real way around this. Or rather, there may be ways of making each test more accurate so you can use a smaller sample size, BUT the techniques for improving accuracy are unique for each test. There's no known overarching technology to magically make all kinds of wildly different labs measuring wildly different things work better across the board. Things like glucose have a high enough concentration that you just need a drop, but most tests are measuring orders of magnitude lower concentrations, so logically you need orders of magnitude more blood.

    Aside from Frist there was a Stanford Chem Eng professor who seems to have been taken in, who should have known better. Those two should be laughingstocks.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Abelard Lindsey, @Jack D

    SimpleSong wrote:

    To summarize why it won’t work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different….[etc.]

    Yeah, the details you laid out are pretty much what I have heard from the biomed folks I have discussed this with.

    I’d add to this that the basic MechE work that had to be done, largely the microfluidics, was pretty challenging too.

    People who have not been involved with hard-core STEM R&D tend to underestimate the herculean efforts required to make even modest steps forward.

    When I was at Stanford, I was close friends with Phil Salin, who was the main business guy for one of the earliest of the private rocket companies. Their business model seemed to be to try to get a few of their bright friends together to shoot a rocket into space.

    I tried to explain to them that it was not that easy: Phil was specifically focused on the propellant, but there are lots of other difficult issues, notably the control system (rockets are balanced on their exhaust — they have a tendency to go awry!). I told them that they needed people with actual experience from the aerospace industry, NASA, etc.

    Phil and his friends — who were indeed very bright guys — were very dismissive of that suggestion.

    Needless to say, their company failed.

    On the other hand, they did not defraud investors — much less medical patients — as Holmes did.

    By the way, personally Phil was a great guy, something I do not think can be said of Holmes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @PhysicistDave

    And if Theranos with all of its talent had developed a breakthrough technology— even if it fell short of the hype— Holmes would today be giving commencement speeches at Stanford and HBS. And in sit-down talks in front of business and tech groups they’d all laugh with admiration at the ballsy bullshit bluffing tactics she used to bring about the breakthrough technology.

    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @PhysicistDave

  53. @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    There most certainly IS an Inner Party
     
    How do you know this? Who are they? What's the nature of their loyalty to each other?

    and not only do they know what’s going on, they know it because they are the ones who put “what’s going on” in motion to begin with.
     
    So everything that happens in the world is preordained by them? They have perfect knowledge of future events?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “So everything that happens in the world is preordained by them? They have perfect knowledge of future events?”

    Yes! Yes!! And what’s worse — they even know what “reductio ad absurdum” means, and you don’t.

    Quelle avantage!

  54. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10366623/Meet-Theranos-investors-defrauded-millions.html —– (I’m Gonna Git You Sucka) (you stale, pale, too rich males) (did Holmes have daddy issues?)

    The Theranos investors who were duped out of millions: Rupert Murdoch sank \$125M into the doomed blood-testing company, Henry Kissinger put in \$3M and former education secretary was defrauded out of \$100M
    Elizabeth Holmes, 37, was convicted on Monday of four counts of fraud in connection with the blood testing start-up she founded in 2003, Theranos
    Holmes was masterful in convincing the rich and powerful to invest in her company, with one bold-faced name convincing another to follow suit
    Among the earliest and largest investors was Rupert Murdoch, who in 2005 put money in the company, eventually ending up with a \$125 million stake
    In 2017, the year before the company collapsed, Murdoch sold his stake back to the company for \$1
    Other investors included Henry Kissinger, Larry Ellison, Betsy DeVos and the Walmart founder – with many of them also sitting on the company’s board
    Holmes could be sentenced to 20 years in prison for each of the four counts, although they will likely be served concurrently and she will appeal
    By HARRIET ALEXANDER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
    PUBLISHED: 00:52 EST, 4 January 2022 | UPDATED: 02:46 EST, 4 January 2022

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Clyde

    I think the Theranos debacle demonstrates less the existence of an "inner party" than a lower-level network effect among the rich and powerful. I think such people often hear about things from each other and, assuming their peers are acting on good information, join in too. It could be as simple as, "What's your favorite restaurant in Gastaad?", or "Who's a good plastic surgeon in this area," or " What's the best place to stay in Martha's Vinyard?" or "Do you have a recommendation for a good law firm to set up trusts?" There is a snowball effect as more of the rich and powerful join in. Here, as many have alluded to, the "female Steve Jobs" aspect added some sizzle.

    It is interesting to see the lack of their own due diligence in this, and presumably other, matters.

    Replies: @clyde

  55. @Sean
    She is convicted, such good news for Sunny Balwani, who emails used in evidence show she was pathetically devoted to. Although Holmes was really just a front for his fraud he is now going to be able to portray her as a malevolent mastermind. As with Maxwell being the only one in prison for a supposed 'powerful men abusing underage girls scandal'. Females make more interesting villains. If you do wrong, be a nondescript male.

    Replies: @Kronos, @Pericles, @PhysicistDave

    Sean wrote:

    She is convicted, such good news for Sunny Balwani, who emails used in evidence show she was pathetically devoted to. Although Holmes was really just a front for his fraud he is now going to be able to portray her as a malevolent mastermind.

    No, probably not.

    If the prosecutors drop the three charges that hung the jury, Holmes cannot plead the Fifth to avoid testifying in Sunny’s trial: since she is already convicted, the prosecutors could and would grant her immunity for any additional testimony she provides that might further incriminate herself.

    And she would then have to repeat the nasty things she said about Sunny.
    If she reneges on them, she is admitting to perjury.

    If Sunny is smart, he is now looking for a plea deal.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @PhysicistDave

    They already have charged her with perjury in the Virginia Giuffre defamation suite, even though some of the most crucial things Guifre said proved to be untrue, for example she said she met Maxwell when 15 but admitted she must have been 17 (I don't see how anyone could honestly make a mistake like that and Giufre also accused Ehud Barak the former Israeli Prime minister of having sex with her). Anyway, Maxwell stupidly responded to the allegations by Giuffre by publicly calling her a liar and Giuffre sued, and then Maxwell had to make a deposition to the judge. It was Maxwell's foolish failure to simply ignore the allegations in the same way that Epstein and Prince Andrew had that led to the whole thing. She was not to know that Trump having once known Epstein would become a major factor, but no one has to issue statements in response to allegations. Moral: anything detrimental to you'll be asked on oath about in a civil case, and your answers can be the basis for criminal prosecution, so keep your trap shut and don't fall into the old perjury one.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Sean
    @PhysicistDave

    Got a bit tangential in my previous reply to you, sorry. Anyway, Sunny is smart; he made $40 million by selling out for stock options then and cashing them in just before the takeover company crashed over a decade ago. If he gets a plea deal now after Holmes has been convicted when do not need his testimony for getting her, it will just reinforce that no one is interested in him. The criminal prosecutions are not for any engineering failures, but a successfully over inflated stock valuation, which he has a something of a prior track record in.

  56. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Jack D

    "She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady..."

    Are you sure she's nice?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Clyde, @kaganovitch

    Are you sure she’s nice?

    Very nice outwardly, enough to sucker in rich white guys. The big lie from the beginning is that you need a few vials of venous blood for proper testing. A drop of blood from a pricked finger/ what Theranos used/ is capillary blood.

    A pretty enough nice liar. She traded off her looks and her Steve Jobs imitation, presentation. As the Kinks song goes.— Ya gotta give the people what they want.

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Clyde

    She must be one hell of a liar:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10371419/Elizabeth-Holmes-jurors-say-tough-convict-likeable.html

    She fooled Henry Kissinger, which is what I call bullshitting a bullshitter.

    Replies: @clyde, @J.Ross

  57. Inside the world of Elizabeth Holmes: How the disgraced Theranos founder styled herself on Steve Jobs, spoke in a fake baritone, told people her husky was a WOLF and captivated old, powerful men who invested millions before her empire collapsed
    A jury has found Elizabeth Holmes guilty of four charges in fraud case that lasted 14 weeks
    Holmes, 37, is the disgraced founder of Theranos, a ‘breakthrough’ blood-testing startup that defrauded investors of \$9billion and patients with inaccurate and unreliable results
    After the company went kaput in 2018, bizarre details of Holmes’ life have been made public: like how she styled herself after Steve Jobs, spoke in a fake baritone voice and claimed that her Husky dog was a wolf
    Former employees recalled how the office was overrun by the dog defecating and peeing in the boardroom
    The trial also revealed steamy texts between Holmes and the company’s COO Ramesh ‘Sunny’ Balwani, with whom she had a secret affair and alleged that he abused her and forced her to have sex
    Balwani famously got his employees to chant ‘F***k you’ to a rival competitor while dancing to MC Hammer in a rollicking staff meeting
    From her Steve Jobs-inspired turtlenecks to claims that she doesn’t blink her eyes, DailyMail.com recounts Elizabeth Holmes’ long list of deceits and most outlandish moments below
    By TATE DELLOYE FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
    PUBLISHED: 19:32 EST, 3 January 2022 | UPDATED: 23:12 EST, 3 January 2022
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10358929/Inside-weird-world-disgraced-Theranos-founder-Elizabeth-Holmes-styled-Steve-Jobs.html#comments

    • Replies: @acementhead
    @Clyde


    "Balwani famously got his employees to chant ‘F***k you’ to a rival competitor while dancing to MC Hammer..."
     
    Ah thanks for reminding me of the other dancing Bal man; but was he, Balwani, as good?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edN4o8F9_P4

    Replies: @Tony massey

  58. @Trelane
    For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Kronos, @kaganovitch, @Athenian Gentleman

    For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.

    It would appear that older readers like Mssrs. Kissinger et Schultz are most in need of this advice.

  59. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Jack D

    "She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady..."

    Are you sure she's nice?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Clyde, @kaganovitch

    Are you sure she’s nice?

    “Nice White lady” is a term of art. Very loosely, it means something along the lines of ‘clubbable’.

  60. She was guilty, there is zero doubt in my mind. Given the breadth of her swindle, I’m surprised that she was convicted of so little. She fooled some very smart, wealthy people out of a lot of money for a medical advancement which would have been quite negligible, even if it did come to fruition.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    @Bernard

    Agree she was guilty, but it's fun to indulge in totally uninformed speculation (I suppose someone who has read the history closely is not totally uninformed, but I am), so I shall.

    It seems clear that this was not a fraud from the beginning. Holmes surely suffered from hubris, just enough intelligence and beauty, and a lack of self-reflection (about normal for a girl at her station in life), abetted by all of the "you-go-girl" adulation, manipulation by an alpha male, and indulgence by these big-shots who were apparently introduced to her without much effort on her part. It certainly became a feedback loop to which many people would be susceptible.

    She probably should have realized at some point that it was B.S., but then again the moon shots with repeated failures and countless naysayers are legendary in Silicon Valley, so I can see how she got caught up in her own hype.

    All that to say, I almost feel sorry for her. She is certainly a product of our zeitgeist. Her conviction of course should serve as a greater condemnation of that culture than of her personally.

  61. There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on.

    George Shultz
    William Perry
    Henry Kissinger
    Sam Nunn
    Bill Frist
    Gary Roughead
    Jim Mattis
    Richard Kovacevich
    Riley P. Bechtel

    Have you considered the possibility that there IS an Inner Party and these men – as august as their names and past glories are – are not in it? You know, the Inner Party members wisely and astutely declined to participate in this scam?

    Most of the investors and directors instead came from the non-tech center-right Establishment.

    This again confirms for me that the “non-tech center-right,” which ran the country during the W years are not a wise bunch and that the “tech left” is certainly much smarter. Is it any wonder that the latter has been beating the former in just about every dimension of power of late?

  62. @PhysicistDave
    Sailer wrote:

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.
     
    When I was at Stanford, I was friends with some guys who had been Congressional interns: they said the stupidity of the "members" was quite impressive.

    My wife once had a chance to meet in a small group with our then Congressman, Bob Matsui. It was not clear if Matsui was dumb as the day is long or simply did not give a damn about any actual facts.

    I myself was once in a larger group where Matsui was the speaker. He kept going on and on about the lack of comedy in Congress. It took me about fifteen minutes to figure out he was saying "comity" -- it turned out that what he meant was that some members of the GOP actually had principles.

    Yes, the current system is not 1984. It's Idiocracy.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Twinkie, @stillCARealist

    When I was at Stanford, I was friends with some guys who had been Congressional interns: they said the stupidity of the “members” was quite impressive.

    I worked on the Hill for a bit.

    Let me put it this way: watch VEEP on HBO. It is the most accurate portrayal of the lives of pols and pol-wannabes in D.C. ever made. Pure, naked greed for power and influence combined with utter, utter incompetence.

    D.C. is literally a city of whores. And I don’t mean that figuratively. There are literally whores – women who sell their bodies for actual cash (and those are the honest kind) as well as those who do so for jobs and, more saliently, proximity to power. If you have even a little bit of political influence and show up at Rayburn, you will be mobbed by a throng of young women freshly out of college working for various members who want to take advantage of you and use you as a ladder – even if you were married.

    Now, you might ask, what about all those men with Ivy League degrees and top shelf credentials? Oh, they are there. It’s just that when there is power and influence at stake, those men lose about 20 points of their IQ and become delusional fools – just as most such men would be at a gambling table in Las Vegas. Add the availability of easy girls, they are just ripe for the fall, which, of course, occurs frequently. (There is also an inordinate amount of obsequious groveling to those with actual power in an effort to obtain influence that is pathetic and degrading to watch.)

    After a while, I told my wife I had to get off the Hill and do something real. I told her that every day I worked in that den of thieves and whores, my soul was dying bit by bit.

    Yes, the current system is not 1984. It’s Idiocracy.

    I wasn’t there in 1984, but from all the lore I was privy to, I can tell you it was no better then. If anything, it was probably worse. There was more opaqueness in the past and shielded all kinds of outlandish shenanigans from the public scrutiny (I once had a boss who was a senior figure at the Reagan White House and he told me some crazy stories).

    • Thanks: The Wild Geese Howard
    • Replies: @Warner
    @Twinkie

    1984 is a pretty famous book.

    Replies: @ic1000, @William Badwhite, @Twinkie

    , @Curle
    @Twinkie

    Yes, the women definitely chase men on Capital Hill but part of that is the high female to male ratio. When I moved to DC in the ‘80s I instantly became an hotter commodity than I had been back home. When I returned to my former hometown my comparative hot commodity status disappeared overnight. I should have stayed.

  63. American elites, at least outside of Silicon Valley, are ardently feminist both in terms of expectations and whom they root for. Holmes found a whole bunch of Old White Men who were excited about helping discover The Female Steve Jobs, the first woman tech billionaire founder.

    Try a different tack: old white men are fond of young women who are (a) competent or (b) can fool them into thinking they’re competent. This can play out in any setting, not just Silicon Valley. Works better if the man in question is bereft of daughters or has daughters who irritate / embarrass him.

    What made Schultz et al look like fools is that they accepted a situation wherein the votes on the board were so apportioned that Holmes’ vote was sufficient to carry the day on each and every issue. They were willing to be decorative. That is (a) silly and (b) something that should not be permitted under state corporate law or federal securities law.

  64. @SimpleSong
    @PhysicistDave

    Agree, good comment.

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn't going to work. A first year med student should be able to quickly spot why this won't work. The old army guys have an excuse for being dumb, but Frist has no excuse, he comes off as a meat mechanic who turned his brain off at age 28.

    To summarize why it won't work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different. Sodium concentrations are very high outside the cell, very low inside the cell, potassium is the opposite. Some things like glucose are the same on both sides. We are usually interested in the concentrations outside the cell.

    When you stick a needle in someone you cut open a bunch of cells on the way to the vein and their contents leak out, but the blood plasma dilutes the disembowled cells so they don't mess up the values too much.

    But if you just do a fingerstick, there is no dilution, and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.

    Now for something like glucose, that is the same concentration on the inside and outside of the cell, this doesn't matter, so you can do fingerstick glucose checks. But most things you are interested in, this is not going to work.

    Also many things we measure have such low concentrations that you just simply need a certain amount of blood to get accurate measurements; there's no real way around this. Or rather, there may be ways of making each test more accurate so you can use a smaller sample size, BUT the techniques for improving accuracy are unique for each test. There's no known overarching technology to magically make all kinds of wildly different labs measuring wildly different things work better across the board. Things like glucose have a high enough concentration that you just need a drop, but most tests are measuring orders of magnitude lower concentrations, so logically you need orders of magnitude more blood.

    Aside from Frist there was a Stanford Chem Eng professor who seems to have been taken in, who should have known better. Those two should be laughingstocks.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Abelard Lindsey, @Jack D

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn’t going to work.

    He’s a surgeon, not a biochemist.

    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    @Art Deco


    He’s a surgeon, not a biochemist.
     
    Right, but so am I! And even a community-practice schlump like me could clearly see this didn't really make any sense based on the very basic physiology classes everybody has to take in the preclinical years in medical school. This isn't high level biochemistry that you need a real expert for! At bare minimum it should have set off his BS detector enough to talk to somebody else.
  65. Steve

    It is easy to con the elites because the elites have so many competing interest that they depend upon their staffs to do the real work. All of the people mentioned were surrounded by a large, taxpayer funded entourage at one time but were paying for the assistant themselves when they were being conned. Those elites spent a couple of minutes reading a one page fact sheet on Theranos before dealing with Holmes and did not really understand what she was saying.

  66. @R.G. Camara
    @Jack D


    She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years
     
    She also (very smartly and sociopathically) got herself pregnant by her brand-new rich husband during the federal investigation/prosecution. That will not only get her time reduced to "keep families together", but also send her to the cushiest of cushy federal prisons -- for nursing mothers and mothers of infants, because we want to make sure children and their mothers bond. She might even get furloughed every weekend to raise the child at home.

    Replies: @puttheforkdown, @Twinkie, @neprof

    She also (very smartly and sociopathically) got herself pregnant by her brand-new rich husband during the federal investigation/prosecution.

    Who is this imbecile who married her AND got her pregnant during the prosecution?

    • Agree: SimpleSong
  67. @Twinkie
    @PhysicistDave


    When I was at Stanford, I was friends with some guys who had been Congressional interns: they said the stupidity of the “members” was quite impressive.
     
    I worked on the Hill for a bit.

    Let me put it this way: watch VEEP on HBO. It is the most accurate portrayal of the lives of pols and pol-wannabes in D.C. ever made. Pure, naked greed for power and influence combined with utter, utter incompetence.

    D.C. is literally a city of whores. And I don't mean that figuratively. There are literally whores - women who sell their bodies for actual cash (and those are the honest kind) as well as those who do so for jobs and, more saliently, proximity to power. If you have even a little bit of political influence and show up at Rayburn, you will be mobbed by a throng of young women freshly out of college working for various members who want to take advantage of you and use you as a ladder - even if you were married.

    Now, you might ask, what about all those men with Ivy League degrees and top shelf credentials? Oh, they are there. It's just that when there is power and influence at stake, those men lose about 20 points of their IQ and become delusional fools - just as most such men would be at a gambling table in Las Vegas. Add the availability of easy girls, they are just ripe for the fall, which, of course, occurs frequently. (There is also an inordinate amount of obsequious groveling to those with actual power in an effort to obtain influence that is pathetic and degrading to watch.)

    After a while, I told my wife I had to get off the Hill and do something real. I told her that every day I worked in that den of thieves and whores, my soul was dying bit by bit.

    Yes, the current system is not 1984. It’s Idiocracy.
     
    I wasn't there in 1984, but from all the lore I was privy to, I can tell you it was no better then. If anything, it was probably worse. There was more opaqueness in the past and shielded all kinds of outlandish shenanigans from the public scrutiny (I once had a boss who was a senior figure at the Reagan White House and he told me some crazy stories).

    Replies: @Warner, @Curle

    1984 is a pretty famous book.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Warner

    > 1984 is a pretty famous book

    Agree. A small miss from a reliably excellent commenter.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @William Badwhite
    @Warner


    1984 is a pretty famous book.
     
    I'm pretty sure he meant the year, not the book.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    , @Twinkie
    @Warner


    1984 is a pretty famous book.
     
    Yeah, I read that last line too hastily and assumed he meant the good old days of Reagan, not Orwell.
  68. Roughly on-topic; some insomnia-inspired questions:

    If you create artificial intelligence, will you be duty-bound to support it for 18 years?

    Will there be custody battles over such intelligences? Jacob Blake-like affairs?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Reg Cæsar

    Laugh Out Load great post Reg.

  69. @Kronos
    @Abe

    It really might be factions of the inner party trying to destroy each other. Remember, the Jeffery Epstein story was published by (I think) the Daily Beast like 10 years ago. But 3-4 years ago the MSM desided to circulate it and stuff finally started to happen. Which factions are fighting who is still largely unknown.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Abe

    the Jeffery Epstein story was published by (I think) the Daily Beast like 10 years ago.

    The Daily Mail?

    From what I’ve seen, the Daily Beast is just another reactive NYC rag with sanitized takes palatable to lefty UMC strivers. UK’s Daily Mail, by contrast, employs actual investigative journalists who occasionally break new ground in a story, at least in the US, maybe they are more timid in their homeland.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Almost Missouri

    I think that was the problem. The Jeffery Epstein story was only circulating around right-wing circles and gaining zero MSM coverage. I was even kinda dubious hearing about the “Lolita Express” back in 2015 when I heard about it from Stefan Molyneux. Of course back then Hillary was supposed to win 2016 so no wonder the MSM tried to squash it. Pragmatic republicans likely thought it best to use it only when Clinton got into office when he became America’s “first man” in the White House. I explained it to my Bush Republican NormyCon parents back in 2015 and they couldn’t believe Bill Clinton could be that stupid and therefor it was false slander. Of course my parents can’t even remember this 2015 conversation. But it goes to show (especially for my dad) that reality doesn’t happen until it’s first printed in the WSJ.

    https://scarenormal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/lolita.jpg

    , @guest007
    @Almost Missouri

    It was a Miami Herald reporter who did the heavy lifting on Epstein

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/25/meet-julie-k-brown-the-woman-who-brought-down-jeffrey-epstein

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  70. @Warner
    @Twinkie

    1984 is a pretty famous book.

    Replies: @ic1000, @William Badwhite, @Twinkie

    > 1984 is a pretty famous book

    Agree. A small miss from a reliably excellent commenter.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ic1000


    ic1000 says:
    January 4, 2022 at 12:53 pm GMT • 9.5 hours ago ↑
    @Warner
    > 1984 is a pretty famous book

    Agree. A small miss from a reliably excellent commenter.
     
    Disagree. It's a huge miss, a disqualifying miss.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

  71. @R.G. Camara

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.
     
    Au contraire---

    1. The Board got huge salaries and bonuses for their work, as well as stock in a rising company at the time that they could sell once all the headlines from hiring her died down but before the stock crashed due to her shenanigans.

    2. They got all the great headlines about pushing "women in STEM" and "women CEOs" from feminazis.

    3. They suffered zero legal consequences and suffered almost zero negative social/political/PR consequences from pushing her.

    Are any of them on trial for hiring her or not investigating the fraud? Are any of them bad mouthed in the corporate press for such a bad decision, hounding them out of their other jobs/speeches? Are any of them forced to give back all the money they got from being on the Board?

    There is an Inner Party. They just know the people who notice their evil have no power to stop them.

    Replies: @ic1000, @James J O'Meara, @Mike1

    1. The Board got huge salaries and bonuses for their work, as well as stock in a rising company at the time that they could sell once all the headlines from hiring her died down but before the stock crashed due to her shenanigans.

    For companies at Theranos’ stage (private and well-funded, pre-IPO), cash compensation for the Board usually ranges from tiny to pretty substantial (but not huge). Bonuses almost always take the form of restricted stock grants or options, usually “vesting” over a few years (actual ownership comes gradually, as an incentive to stick with the company).

    Stocks and options are very illiquid — there is no market and no clearly-established price for them, so they are difficult (though not always impossible) to sell.

    For a private company’s Board and senior management, a major incentive for an IPO (or a SPAC, or an outright sale to a larger company) is to make it possible to turn one’s illiquid paper wealth into actual money. For that reason, VCs call these “liquidity events.”

    I don’t know these details for Theranos, but it’s likely that they were close to industry standard. In other words, the big fish (on or off the Board) likely lost all or almost all of the money they invested.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @ic1000

    That is certainly the case with drug development companies.

    Even the ones that are publicly traded often go years without producing a profitable product, and when they run out of money they go back to the stock market for more funds, promising that they are close to a breakthrough.

    That was the case several times with Tesla also, which teetered on the verge of bankruptcy several times, but each time was able to raise a few billion dollars more from institutional investors, and eventually became somewhat profitable.

    Many of these development companies do eventually go bankrupt, in which case they are often renamed and relaunched.

    The Theranos case seem to be particularly egregious, as there never was a new technology and Holmes and Balwani seem to have been particularly mendacious and dishonest.

  72. The lessons I see are a bit different. What’s notable is how long it took for her to be indicted and prosecuted. Enough time for records to disappear and be destroyed, burying the harm done to innocent Walgreen’s customers. They even convinced you to let it go:

    as far as I know, nobody died due to Holmes’ blood test machine being so unreliable . . .

    That’s pretty close to what the smart set tells themselves about the so-called vaccines at the moment.

    We can think of this grift as in some important respects a dry run for the sort of magical thinking for fabulous profit that kicked into high gear in 2021.

    There’s a lot of talk lately about sinister Singularity. But for all the high tech updating, this was an old school Singularity in terms of melding political and permanent government grandees to a real moneymaker via government contracts.

    Not a single board member, including the non-elderly, displaced even a moment’s hesitation experimenting on our combat forces. Has anyone even asked Mattis what he was thinking?

    Nor is it a surprise in the current context that the prosecution narrative was channelled into defrauding billionaire investors. They chalked it up the moment it hit rough sledding to a failed public/private grift. A mere rounding error and tax write-off.

    Say what you will about Elizabeth Theranos (as I call her), she dreamed up a brilliant idea to free all of us from the grip of those dastardly medical testing companies and their useless protocols. How is that any different than the Boeing/Obama administration efficiency drive in the form of the 737 Max?

    Don’t forget how this whole thing collapsed. It wasn’t a board member asking pesky questions. That corrupt gaggle showed their true colors by doubling down self-protectively the moment the wheels started coming off. Nor did the prominent snookered billionaires call for letting it all hang out. Nope,
    it was a whistleblower — a real one, not what passes for them these days since they fixed that problem too, and a WSJ reporter who was a dog with a bone like reporters used to be.

    • Thanks: sayless
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @MLK

    MLK wrote:


    Nope, it was a whistleblower — a real one, not what passes for them these days since they fixed that problem too, and a WSJ reporter who was a dog with a bone like reporters used to be.
     
    There were two very young whistleblowers in particular -- Tyler Shultz and Erika Cheung.

    As I've said, my wife is friends with Erika, and I myself have met and talked with her -- she is a self-possessed but sincere and rather ingenuous young woman.

    Erika was a fresh grad just out of Cal. She and Tyler went through Hell because they did the right thing.

    They deserve a lot of credit for having the guts to speak up. If only most members of our ruling elite had similar courage.

    Replies: @MLK

  73. The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like “wire fraud” and “crossing state lines”, which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    All you can really say in the cases of Ghislaine Maxwell and Elizabeth Holmes is that a jury found them guilty of certain legal offenses, and that certain offenses have certain penalties attached to them.

    The question of whether anybody was really hurt or not is irrelevant. The important issue is that the majesty of the law be upheld and that the general public be given the message that crime doesn’t pay.

    The teen prostitutes in the Maxwell case are all now millionaires, and Elizabeth Holmes’s investors (marks) are not living on the street either, but that is all irrelevant.

    The only question is whether the law was broken, and whether it was enforced.

    However the law only becomes relevant when there are large amounts of money involved. During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida, and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element. And lots of people give people money every day to back various business plans and get scammed out of their money, and nothing happens because the scammers are indigent.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Jonathan Mason

    Crossing state lines to sell cars stolen in state A, to transfer title in state B, to sell the stolen car in state C if a federal or national crime. The moving stolen vehicles and other stolen goods from state to state to avoid local law enforcement is done all the time.

    Illegal immigrant indentured servants come across the Mexican border or in container ships from Asia to the pacific coast. They’re moved all around by human traffickers or illegal alien smugglers.

    Soon the Mexicans are 3,000 miles north working on farms ranches slaughter houses food processing plants close to the Canadian border.

    The Chinese land in California Pacific ports . Often in abandoned wharves, like the old Hunter’s Point shipyard in San Francisco. Or Port Chicago or any abandoned secluded place along that huge bay. They are met by buses and trucks. A year or so later they’re in a massage salon restaurant laundry illegal factory anywhere in the country 3,000 miles north or south from where they first landed

    It’s even worse in fraud and business crimes. A business can incorporate in state A which has extremely loose lenient regulations. But do business in state B .

    Reason of course is that European countries are small and have national governments that make the laws for the entire country. America began with no national government . Due to the huge size and lack of railroads decent roads no Telegraph or fast communication is why we have state and federal system instead of one easily managed national system.,

    , @Alden
    @Jonathan Mason

    California alone is bigger than Britain. About 163,000 sq miles vs 93,000 sq miles. There’s American counties and Indian reservations bigger than France or Britain. 2 of the biggest countries in Europe Maybe if America had begun in 1890s instead of 1790s with railroad Telegraph nation wide shipping telephone and a good postal system we might have a single national government and only national laws.

    But it didn’t happen that way. The EU was intended to evolve into the United States of Europe. Existing national laws and European Union laws.

    The UK still has some old Scottish laws observed only in Scotland. Northern Ireland had some separate laws observed only in N Ireland until 1968.

    , @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Jonathan Mason


    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like “wire fraud” and “crossing state lines”, which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.
     
    These aren't so much substantive distinctions but matters of Federal vs. State jurisdiction - the Federal government's regulatory power comes mainly from its Constitutional prerogative to manage interstate commerce, so (at least theoretically) there must be a nexus to interstate commerce for the Federal government to outlaw some conduct. Otherwise it is the affair of the State(s) in which the conduct occurred.

    The use of the "wires" (telephones, internet, etc.) is presumed to be interstate in nature, and therefore the Federal government has established a nexus to criminally regulate conduct.
    , @Bernard
    @Jonathan Mason


    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like “wire fraud” and “crossing state lines”, which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.
     
    I have always considered this a bit odd myself. Wire fraud has become a catch-all for almost every crime, as the use of electronic communication takes place with nearly every human interaction these days. I might be mistaken, but I assumed that these type of laws were originally put on the books to prosecute crimes that actually occurred on a “wire”, like bank fraud , rather than their use as an incidental part of a crime.

    Using tax evasion as a tool to prosecute criminals strikes me similarly. If a criminal is required to report and pay taxes on his ill gotten gains, then by law he is losing his 5th amendment right against self incrimination. If that’s the case, shouldn’t tax evasion only be enforceable if the taxpayer is granted implicit immunity for reporting income derived from criminal activity, then fails to do so ?
    , @Hibernian
    @Jonathan Mason


    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like “wire fraud” and “crossing state lines”, which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.
     
    The limited powers of the Federal Government were intended as a bulwark against tyranny, but the Federal power to regulate interstate commerce has been magnified to create a central police power similar to that of France and other centralized nations. BTW the US is not the only nation in the world with a Federal system. Switzerland and Mexico come to mind. Not sure about Swtzerland, but in Mexico the States still have some power left, similar to the US.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jonathan Mason wrote:


    During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida...
     
    I trust that you know that, unless you have a very, very convincing explanation for that, that statement may be of interest to law enforcement in Florida?

    Replies: @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman, @Jonathan Mason

  74. @R.G. Camara
    @Jack D


    She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years
     
    She also (very smartly and sociopathically) got herself pregnant by her brand-new rich husband during the federal investigation/prosecution. That will not only get her time reduced to "keep families together", but also send her to the cushiest of cushy federal prisons -- for nursing mothers and mothers of infants, because we want to make sure children and their mothers bond. She might even get furloughed every weekend to raise the child at home.

    Replies: @puttheforkdown, @Twinkie, @neprof

    sounds more comfy than a COVID quarantine

  75. Everyone should read it.

    • Agree: Kronos, PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Gordo

    Our very own Steve Sailer did an excellent review on that very book. I bought it on his recommendation and enjoyed it.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/blood_simple_steve_sailer/

  76. @Almost Missouri
    @Kronos


    the Jeffery Epstein story was published by (I think) the Daily Beast like 10 years ago.
     
    The Daily Mail?

    From what I've seen, the Daily Beast is just another reactive NYC rag with sanitized takes palatable to lefty UMC strivers. UK's Daily Mail, by contrast, employs actual investigative journalists who occasionally break new ground in a story, at least in the US, maybe they are more timid in their homeland.

    Replies: @Kronos, @guest007

    I think that was the problem. The Jeffery Epstein story was only circulating around right-wing circles and gaining zero MSM coverage. I was even kinda dubious hearing about the “Lolita Express” back in 2015 when I heard about it from Stefan Molyneux. Of course back then Hillary was supposed to win 2016 so no wonder the MSM tried to squash it. Pragmatic republicans likely thought it best to use it only when Clinton got into office when he became America’s “first man” in the White House. I explained it to my Bush Republican NormyCon parents back in 2015 and they couldn’t believe Bill Clinton could be that stupid and therefor it was false slander. Of course my parents can’t even remember this 2015 conversation. But it goes to show (especially for my dad) that reality doesn’t happen until it’s first printed in the WSJ.

  77. It seems like elizabeth Holmes has been spending her free time dancing on TikTok

    https://youtube.com/shorts/7Ukslbt73dI?feature=share

  78. @ic1000
    @R.G. Camara


    1. The Board got huge salaries and bonuses for their work, as well as stock in a rising company at the time that they could sell once all the headlines from hiring her died down but before the stock crashed due to her shenanigans.
     
    For companies at Theranos' stage (private and well-funded, pre-IPO), cash compensation for the Board usually ranges from tiny to pretty substantial (but not huge). Bonuses almost always take the form of restricted stock grants or options, usually "vesting" over a few years (actual ownership comes gradually, as an incentive to stick with the company).

    Stocks and options are very illiquid -- there is no market and no clearly-established price for them, so they are difficult (though not always impossible) to sell.

    For a private company's Board and senior management, a major incentive for an IPO (or a SPAC, or an outright sale to a larger company) is to make it possible to turn one's illiquid paper wealth into actual money. For that reason, VCs call these "liquidity events."

    I don't know these details for Theranos, but it's likely that they were close to industry standard. In other words, the big fish (on or off the Board) likely lost all or almost all of the money they invested.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    That is certainly the case with drug development companies.

    Even the ones that are publicly traded often go years without producing a profitable product, and when they run out of money they go back to the stock market for more funds, promising that they are close to a breakthrough.

    That was the case several times with Tesla also, which teetered on the verge of bankruptcy several times, but each time was able to raise a few billion dollars more from institutional investors, and eventually became somewhat profitable.

    Many of these development companies do eventually go bankrupt, in which case they are often renamed and relaunched.

    The Theranos case seem to be particularly egregious, as there never was a new technology and Holmes and Balwani seem to have been particularly mendacious and dishonest.

  79. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave
    @SimpleSong

    SimpleSong wrote:


    To summarize why it won’t work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different....[etc.]

     

    Yeah, the details you laid out are pretty much what I have heard from the biomed folks I have discussed this with.

    I'd add to this that the basic MechE work that had to be done, largely the microfluidics, was pretty challenging too.

    People who have not been involved with hard-core STEM R&D tend to underestimate the herculean efforts required to make even modest steps forward.

    When I was at Stanford, I was close friends with Phil Salin, who was the main business guy for one of the earliest of the private rocket companies. Their business model seemed to be to try to get a few of their bright friends together to shoot a rocket into space.

    I tried to explain to them that it was not that easy: Phil was specifically focused on the propellant, but there are lots of other difficult issues, notably the control system (rockets are balanced on their exhaust -- they have a tendency to go awry!). I told them that they needed people with actual experience from the aerospace industry, NASA, etc.

    Phil and his friends -- who were indeed very bright guys -- were very dismissive of that suggestion.

    Needless to say, their company failed.

    On the other hand, they did not defraud investors -- much less medical patients -- as Holmes did.

    By the way, personally Phil was a great guy, something I do not think can be said of Holmes.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    And if Theranos with all of its talent had developed a breakthrough technology— even if it fell short of the hype— Holmes would today be giving commencement speeches at Stanford and HBS. And in sit-down talks in front of business and tech groups they’d all laugh with admiration at the ballsy bullshit bluffing tactics she used to bring about the breakthrough technology.

    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @Anonymous


    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.
     
    No, Apple and Microsoft had working products at the start. They had to in order to survive. Most of the bluffing and bullshit came in the middle (and to some degree is still coming).
    , @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Anonymous


    And if Theranos with all of its talent had developed a breakthrough technology— even if it fell short of the hype— Holmes would today be giving commencement speeches at Stanford and HBS. And in sit-down talks in front of business and tech groups they’d all laugh with admiration at the ballsy bullshit bluffing tactics she used to bring about the breakthrough technology.
     
    And if my aunt had a . . .

    There's a reason that the promise of the Theranos technology attracted investments - it would be very, very difficult technology to develop in the package proposed and would revolutionize medical diagnostics. That's why the conceiving of it was easy, but the actual making of it in working form was very, very difficult. At some point Holmes and Co. evidently decided to put out a box that didn't do what they said it did. She's basically Gene Roddenberry who took things the next step by making a prop of fictional space age technology.

    It's sort of like that Simpson's episode where the theme park robots malfunction and become aggressive and Marge, looking at a now damaged robot, says "See those wires and stuff in there Homey? That's why your robot never worked." She's being unfavorably compared to Homer Simpson here.
    , @PhysicistDave
    @Anonymous

    Anonymous[369] wrote to me:


    And if Theranos with all of its talent....
     
    What talent???

    I am a physicist turned engineer; my wife has had experience in biotech. We have both read Carreyrou's Bad Blood. My wife actually considered applying for a job at Theranos early on -- but then she looked into it enough to realize it was a scam.

    As I said earlier, Balwani was a coding monkey. Holmes was a dropout with no significant knowledge or experience in engineering.

    And if they had some hidden brilliant "talent" somewhere in the company, they hid it well.

    You've been scammed by the little lady felon, my friend.

    Anon also wrote:

    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.
     
    Do you have any idea at all what you are talking about???

    I was in grad school at Stanford when Apple and Microsoft got going. I was a STEM guy who knew how to program (Fortran and Basic) and also knew basic digital logic design and semiconductor device physics. In short, I had a strong interest in high-tech, and I had the technical background to understand it.

    And I do not remember Microsoft and Apple blatantly lying to investors and customers.

    Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

    Over-optimistic about new products' launch dates? Perhaps.

    But that was not Holmes problem: her problem was that she blatantly lied.

    Honest over-optimism is not a crime. Intentional fraud is.
  80. Anon[369] • Disclaimer says:

    “Information is the lifeblood of research.”

    “This is the laboratory of the future.”

    “Talk about being inspired. This is inspiration. It is amazing to me, Elizabeth, what you’ve been able to do.”

    “You get the sense that the whole medical complex and industry is on the cusp of some fundamental change that goes far beyond what encompasses what you’re doing here.”

    — Joe Biden speaking at Theranos on July 23, 2015

    Just imagine if this were Trump. Holmes would be a hero witness in Trump’s 2-million count federal indictment.

    • Agree: Sean, Almost Missouri
  81. @houston 1992
    @Sean

    "Maxwell (mocked at school for her slow reading) "

    Hmm do you have a link to that ?

    Replies: @Sean

    Article by Camila Long, who went to the same school. Maxwell’s haltingly delivered TED talk is pretty good evidence too. As is her not leaving the US for France, which she could not have been been extradited from, during the several months she was free to do so. All media assumed she had left the US. What an idiot! Apart from the detention in an anti suicide turtle suit and being woke up every hour to check she was alive, very difficult to fight a case from jail. They probably had her on meds.

    • Thanks: houston 1992
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Sean

    Here’s a thought. Given the major scandal after Epstein allegedly killed him self could it be possible the French government discretely informed her that if she came back to France and was found by American law enforcement the French government would waive the law and extradite her to America?

    Just a thought. Or maybe she was so madly in love with her first ever husband she couldn’t bear to leave him? ha ha ha ha.

    Replies: @Sean

  82. @JimDandyaway
    What you said. Or else she was literally blowing all of them. Certain situations cloud even the best judgement of the wisest shaman. And in fairness, what she was trying to pull wasnt much more audacious than the scam Big Pharma successfully pulled off with the bad.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    What you said. Or else she was literally blowing all of them. Certain situations cloud even the best judgement of the wisest shaman. And in fairness, what she was trying to pull wasnt much more audacious than the scam Big Pharma successfully pulled off with the bad.

    Well, she was probably symbolically or metaphorically “blowing all of them” by stroking their ample egos. You sometimes see this dynamic between older men and younger women where it’s not patently sexual, but there is some emotionally intimate relationship (at least in the emotions of the older man). It seems to revolve around letting the older man believe – without saying – that were he forty years younger and not married to his old hag homemaker wife they’d be lovers because there is a real connection and mutual respect and admiration.

  83. @Jack D
    1. If you look at the counts she was convicted on, they were the really serious ones in terms of $ - wire fraud of $99 million, etc. Acquitted of the minor counts such as giving $45 faulty blood test results to patients.

    2. These counts EACH carry prison terms up to 20 years. Unless you are Madoff, these are usually served concurrently, so 3 counts of fraud get you (almost) as much time as 7 counts. Juries often don't realize this and will "compromise" by spitting the verdict. This does the defendant little good.

    3. She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years. Maybe something like 2 to 5 years. 7 would be the absolute maximum but I'd be surprised if she got that much. That's my prediction. Meanwhile her lawyers will drag the appeals out for years.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Ghost of Bull Moose, @Alden, @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman

    Thank you for explaining the charges. It’s California. Black killers are often let out early to kill again. Because she’s White she might get the Kim Potter treatment. White women aren’t treated any better than White men if they get caught up in the system. It’s just that women of all races don’t commit the violent crimes men do. Violent crimes black men do that is.

    Her small child might make a difference. Husband has plenty of money. Doesn’t need to go to a workplace every day like the rest of us proles . So he can find a nice house near her prison and a nanny. And like Epstein who went to “ work” 14 or more hours a day while in the county jail, Elizabeth can spend 14,16 hours a day tending to her child in a nice house near the prison.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Alden

    It's Federal court so the Californication effect is not as great. Then again, Federal prisons, especially ones where white color offenders are held, are usually nicer than state prisons. As for not getting treated any better, I will wager that her former boyfriend/partner in crime Balwani will get a longer sentence.

    Replies: @Wilkey

  84. Anon[154] • Disclaimer says:
    @Clyde
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10366623/Meet-Theranos-investors-defrauded-millions.html ----- (I'm Gonna Git You Sucka) (you stale, pale, too rich males) (did Holmes have daddy issues?)

    The Theranos investors who were duped out of millions: Rupert Murdoch sank $125M into the doomed blood-testing company, Henry Kissinger put in $3M and former education secretary was defrauded out of $100M
    Elizabeth Holmes, 37, was convicted on Monday of four counts of fraud in connection with the blood testing start-up she founded in 2003, Theranos
    Holmes was masterful in convincing the rich and powerful to invest in her company, with one bold-faced name convincing another to follow suit
    Among the earliest and largest investors was Rupert Murdoch, who in 2005 put money in the company, eventually ending up with a $125 million stake
    In 2017, the year before the company collapsed, Murdoch sold his stake back to the company for $1
    Other investors included Henry Kissinger, Larry Ellison, Betsy DeVos and the Walmart founder - with many of them also sitting on the company's board
    Holmes could be sentenced to 20 years in prison for each of the four counts, although they will likely be served concurrently and she will appeal
    By HARRIET ALEXANDER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
    PUBLISHED: 00:52 EST, 4 January 2022 | UPDATED: 02:46 EST, 4 January 2022

    Replies: @Anon

    I think the Theranos debacle demonstrates less the existence of an “inner party” than a lower-level network effect among the rich and powerful. I think such people often hear about things from each other and, assuming their peers are acting on good information, join in too. It could be as simple as, “What’s your favorite restaurant in Gastaad?”, or “Who’s a good plastic surgeon in this area,” or ” What’s the best place to stay in Martha’s Vinyard?” or “Do you have a recommendation for a good law firm to set up trusts?” There is a snowball effect as more of the rich and powerful join in. Here, as many have alluded to, the “female Steve Jobs” aspect added some sizzle.

    It is interesting to see the lack of their own due diligence in this, and presumably other, matters.

    • Agree: clyde, Twinkie
    • Replies: @clyde
    @Anon


    I think the Theranos debacle demonstrates less the existence of an “inner party” than a lower-level network effect among the rich and powerful. I think such people often hear about things from each other and, assuming their peers are acting on good information, join in too. It could be as simple as, “What’s your favorite restaurant in Gastaad?”, or “Who’s a good plastic surgeon in this area,” or ” What’s the best place to stay in Martha’s Vinyard?” or “Do you have a recommendation for a good law firm to set up trusts?” There is a snowball effect as more of the rich and powerful join in.
     
    Of course the ultra elites and billionaires exchange health tips, longevity tips and the doctors and lawyers to see, insider information on stocks and investments. I would say mostly done in social settings, such as the Mediterranean yachting scene in the summer. Meets at the Aspen Institute, Davos etc. etc. etc.____ About 10 years ago I noticed that David Geffen's wealth at the Forbes 400 went up a billion a year. This guy has not been in the record business or movie making for ages. But he has a Yacht. He is very sociable and very networking. He is getting insider tip-offs, on up and coming sure thing investments. (so says Clyde) There are many Geffens out there.

    David Geffen Is Isolating On His $590 Million Yacht-- https://www.thethings.com/david-geffen-is-isolating-on-his-590-million-yacht-a-look-inside
    David has been yachting all over the place since early 2020. He's cruised the world, pausing in the South of France or the Caribbean for a time. Back in September, Massachusetts was all over twitter when the yacht pulled into New Bedford State Pier for repairs and refueling. Don't worry, Geffen is on the move again.
     
  85. @Jonathan Mason
    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like "wire fraud" and "crossing state lines", which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    All you can really say in the cases of Ghislaine Maxwell and Elizabeth Holmes is that a jury found them guilty of certain legal offenses, and that certain offenses have certain penalties attached to them.

    The question of whether anybody was really hurt or not is irrelevant. The important issue is that the majesty of the law be upheld and that the general public be given the message that crime doesn't pay.

    The teen prostitutes in the Maxwell case are all now millionaires, and Elizabeth Holmes's investors (marks) are not living on the street either, but that is all irrelevant.

    The only question is whether the law was broken, and whether it was enforced.

    However the law only becomes relevant when there are large amounts of money involved. During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida, and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element. And lots of people give people money every day to back various business plans and get scammed out of their money, and nothing happens because the scammers are indigent.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Bernard, @Hibernian, @PhysicistDave

    Crossing state lines to sell cars stolen in state A, to transfer title in state B, to sell the stolen car in state C if a federal or national crime. The moving stolen vehicles and other stolen goods from state to state to avoid local law enforcement is done all the time.

    Illegal immigrant indentured servants come across the Mexican border or in container ships from Asia to the pacific coast. They’re moved all around by human traffickers or illegal alien smugglers.

    Soon the Mexicans are 3,000 miles north working on farms ranches slaughter houses food processing plants close to the Canadian border.

    The Chinese land in California Pacific ports . Often in abandoned wharves, like the old Hunter’s Point shipyard in San Francisco. Or Port Chicago or any abandoned secluded place along that huge bay. They are met by buses and trucks. A year or so later they’re in a massage salon restaurant laundry illegal factory anywhere in the country 3,000 miles north or south from where they first landed

    It’s even worse in fraud and business crimes. A business can incorporate in state A which has extremely loose lenient regulations. But do business in state B .

    Reason of course is that European countries are small and have national governments that make the laws for the entire country. America began with no national government . Due to the huge size and lack of railroads decent roads no Telegraph or fast communication is why we have state and federal system instead of one easily managed national system.,

  86. @PhysicistDave
    Sailer wrote:

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.
     
    When I was at Stanford, I was friends with some guys who had been Congressional interns: they said the stupidity of the "members" was quite impressive.

    My wife once had a chance to meet in a small group with our then Congressman, Bob Matsui. It was not clear if Matsui was dumb as the day is long or simply did not give a damn about any actual facts.

    I myself was once in a larger group where Matsui was the speaker. He kept going on and on about the lack of comedy in Congress. It took me about fifteen minutes to figure out he was saying "comity" -- it turned out that what he meant was that some members of the GOP actually had principles.

    Yes, the current system is not 1984. It's Idiocracy.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Twinkie, @stillCARealist

    I’ve been in social situations with my congressman, Tom McClintock, several times. He’s quite intelligent and informed. But, then, he is a right-wing Republican (with libertarian leanings).

    Matsewage passed on his seat to his wife after he kicked, and the lame voters went right along with it. As long as it’s a Democrat, who cares!

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @stillCARealist

    Senators tend to be pretty smart guys (with egoes to match) but the quality of Congressmen varies greatly.

    In big cities they often used to be guys who had come up thru the unions (or like Mayor Adams in NYC, thru the police force). These guys were not necessarily book smart but they were sometimes street smart. Other times they were just dummies who did whatever their union bosses told them (and were corrupt to boot).

    Increasingly in big cities they are black with all that implies in terms of intelligence and corruptability (although they are usually from Talented Tenth/more European blood sector of blacks).

    In more rural areas they are often local pols who have risen to the level of their incompetence.

    Some of them (a few) are Future Senators and are quite smart (e.g. Schumer who spent 20 years in Congress before becoming a Senator).

    Others (especially Democrats) can be "intellectuals" who follow Orwell's maxim that there are some ideas that are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them. Like the Congresslady (my Congresslady although an improvement on the last one who was a black guy from Philly who ended up in prison) who just got carjacked and thought that having more gun (meaning rifle) control laws would have prevented this.

    Being intelligent is not really a pre-requisite for Congress so sometimes they are and sometimes they ain't.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @PhysicistDave
    @stillCARealist

    stillCARealist wrote to me:


    I’ve been in social situations with my congressman, Tom McClintock, several times. He’s quite intelligent and informed. But, then, he is a right-wing Republican (with libertarian leanings).
     
    Yeah, I also have been in a medium-sized group with McClintock (we live within the city limits of Sacramento, not too far from his district)-- I actually got to ask him a question, though I did not get to chat with him one-on-one.

    Indeed, not an idiot.

    Watching Nunes in interviews, he too seems not to be an idiot.

    But the majority... Beavis and Butt-head.
  87. @Jack D
    1. If you look at the counts she was convicted on, they were the really serious ones in terms of $ - wire fraud of $99 million, etc. Acquitted of the minor counts such as giving $45 faulty blood test results to patients.

    2. These counts EACH carry prison terms up to 20 years. Unless you are Madoff, these are usually served concurrently, so 3 counts of fraud get you (almost) as much time as 7 counts. Juries often don't realize this and will "compromise" by spitting the verdict. This does the defendant little good.

    3. She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years. Maybe something like 2 to 5 years. 7 would be the absolute maximum but I'd be surprised if she got that much. That's my prediction. Meanwhile her lawyers will drag the appeals out for years.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Ghost of Bull Moose, @Alden, @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman

    Federal case so she will probably go to the federal prison in Pleasanton. It’s only about 100 or less miles from San Francisco where she and her husband live. It’s not bad as prisons go. I think they have private rooms. Nice area near the coast so it never gets hot in summer.

    • Disagree: Abolish_public_education
    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Alden

    "... Nice area near the coast so it never gets hot in summer."

    Pleasanton is in an inward valley and it definitely can get hot in the summer. The record high is 115. According to wikipedia:

    "Pleasanton features a Mediterranean climate, featuring hot, dry summers .."

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden

    , @Alden
    @Alden

    Abolish public education

    Pleasanton prison in N California, the town of Dublin is the federal prison for women who are federal prisoners in California. That’s where she will be sent. If she’s sentenced to prison.

    So why disagree with the fact that Pleasanton in Dublin is the California federal prison for women.?

  88. @J.Ross
    @PhysicistDave

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV but also for some Congressional bloviations. For the whole time that our illiterate journalists were decrying Donald Trump's gaffes I was unable to forget what I had observed in previous years of perfethinnel congresscritters attempting to form English sentences. I didn't even include that one guy who was worried about Guam capsizing because I didn't see that one live.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @Abolish_public_education, @Bill Jones

    what does “perfethinnel” mean? google doesn’t recognize it, but that could be their problem, not yours.

    I like new words. Come up with a cool definition and coin it.

    • Agree: Tony massey
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @stillCARealist

    I am desolated to report that for me to define "perfethinnel" to you will require an exchange of funds.

  89. OT But am I the only person who’s noticed that the current issue of People has a cover photo of Betty White — with the unfortunate headline Betty White Turns 100!

  90. @Warner
    @Twinkie

    1984 is a pretty famous book.

    Replies: @ic1000, @William Badwhite, @Twinkie

    1984 is a pretty famous book.

    I’m pretty sure he meant the year, not the book.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @William Badwhite

    William Badwhite wrote of me:


    I’m pretty sure [Dave] meant the year [1984], not the book.
     
    No, I did mean the book (probably should have said "Orwell's 1984"), but it does not really matter.

    What does matter is that we are ruled by morons.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

  91. @SimpleSong
    @PhysicistDave

    Agree, good comment.

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn't going to work. A first year med student should be able to quickly spot why this won't work. The old army guys have an excuse for being dumb, but Frist has no excuse, he comes off as a meat mechanic who turned his brain off at age 28.

    To summarize why it won't work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different. Sodium concentrations are very high outside the cell, very low inside the cell, potassium is the opposite. Some things like glucose are the same on both sides. We are usually interested in the concentrations outside the cell.

    When you stick a needle in someone you cut open a bunch of cells on the way to the vein and their contents leak out, but the blood plasma dilutes the disembowled cells so they don't mess up the values too much.

    But if you just do a fingerstick, there is no dilution, and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.

    Now for something like glucose, that is the same concentration on the inside and outside of the cell, this doesn't matter, so you can do fingerstick glucose checks. But most things you are interested in, this is not going to work.

    Also many things we measure have such low concentrations that you just simply need a certain amount of blood to get accurate measurements; there's no real way around this. Or rather, there may be ways of making each test more accurate so you can use a smaller sample size, BUT the techniques for improving accuracy are unique for each test. There's no known overarching technology to magically make all kinds of wildly different labs measuring wildly different things work better across the board. Things like glucose have a high enough concentration that you just need a drop, but most tests are measuring orders of magnitude lower concentrations, so logically you need orders of magnitude more blood.

    Aside from Frist there was a Stanford Chem Eng professor who seems to have been taken in, who should have known better. Those two should be laughingstocks.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Abelard Lindsey, @Jack D

    The immediate non-scientific analogy that comes to mind is polling data, which anyone with experience in politics would have easily understood. If Elizabeth Holmes had come to these men and said she could predict election results based on ten randomly chosen people they would have laughed her out of the room.

    It always seemed to me that for her device to work it would have required not one major scientific advance, but 10 or 20 or 100. All she apparently did was say “Hey, let’s use smaller sample sizes!” as if none of the millions of people in the healthcare industry had ever thought of that.

  92. @Anonymous
    @PhysicistDave

    And if Theranos with all of its talent had developed a breakthrough technology— even if it fell short of the hype— Holmes would today be giving commencement speeches at Stanford and HBS. And in sit-down talks in front of business and tech groups they’d all laugh with admiration at the ballsy bullshit bluffing tactics she used to bring about the breakthrough technology.

    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @PhysicistDave

    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.

    No, Apple and Microsoft had working products at the start. They had to in order to survive. Most of the bluffing and bullshit came in the middle (and to some degree is still coming).

  93. @Art Deco
    @SimpleSong

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn’t going to work.

    He's a surgeon, not a biochemist.

    Replies: @SimpleSong

    He’s a surgeon, not a biochemist.

    Right, but so am I! And even a community-practice schlump like me could clearly see this didn’t really make any sense based on the very basic physiology classes everybody has to take in the preclinical years in medical school. This isn’t high level biochemistry that you need a real expert for! At bare minimum it should have set off his BS detector enough to talk to somebody else.

    • Agree: northeast
  94. @Jonathan Mason
    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like "wire fraud" and "crossing state lines", which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    All you can really say in the cases of Ghislaine Maxwell and Elizabeth Holmes is that a jury found them guilty of certain legal offenses, and that certain offenses have certain penalties attached to them.

    The question of whether anybody was really hurt or not is irrelevant. The important issue is that the majesty of the law be upheld and that the general public be given the message that crime doesn't pay.

    The teen prostitutes in the Maxwell case are all now millionaires, and Elizabeth Holmes's investors (marks) are not living on the street either, but that is all irrelevant.

    The only question is whether the law was broken, and whether it was enforced.

    However the law only becomes relevant when there are large amounts of money involved. During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida, and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element. And lots of people give people money every day to back various business plans and get scammed out of their money, and nothing happens because the scammers are indigent.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Bernard, @Hibernian, @PhysicistDave

    California alone is bigger than Britain. About 163,000 sq miles vs 93,000 sq miles. There’s American counties and Indian reservations bigger than France or Britain. 2 of the biggest countries in Europe Maybe if America had begun in 1890s instead of 1790s with railroad Telegraph nation wide shipping telephone and a good postal system we might have a single national government and only national laws.

    But it didn’t happen that way. The EU was intended to evolve into the United States of Europe. Existing national laws and European Union laws.

    The UK still has some old Scottish laws observed only in Scotland. Northern Ireland had some separate laws observed only in N Ireland until 1968.

  95. @Anonymous
    @PhysicistDave

    And if Theranos with all of its talent had developed a breakthrough technology— even if it fell short of the hype— Holmes would today be giving commencement speeches at Stanford and HBS. And in sit-down talks in front of business and tech groups they’d all laugh with admiration at the ballsy bullshit bluffing tactics she used to bring about the breakthrough technology.

    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @PhysicistDave

    And if Theranos with all of its talent had developed a breakthrough technology— even if it fell short of the hype— Holmes would today be giving commencement speeches at Stanford and HBS. And in sit-down talks in front of business and tech groups they’d all laugh with admiration at the ballsy bullshit bluffing tactics she used to bring about the breakthrough technology.

    And if my aunt had a . . .

    There’s a reason that the promise of the Theranos technology attracted investments – it would be very, very difficult technology to develop in the package proposed and would revolutionize medical diagnostics. That’s why the conceiving of it was easy, but the actual making of it in working form was very, very difficult. At some point Holmes and Co. evidently decided to put out a box that didn’t do what they said it did. She’s basically Gene Roddenberry who took things the next step by making a prop of fictional space age technology.

    It’s sort of like that Simpson’s episode where the theme park robots malfunction and become aggressive and Marge, looking at a now damaged robot, says “See those wires and stuff in there Homey? That’s why your robot never worked.” She’s being unfavorably compared to Homer Simpson here.

  96. @usNthem
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Could be. On the other hand, it could have been plain old fashioned T & A to a bunch of wealthy, lecherous old goats.

    Replies: @Uncle Dan, @Abelard Lindsey, @Moses

    Naw. Elizabeth Holmes had the sex appeal of a horse.

  97. @Jonathan Mason
    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like "wire fraud" and "crossing state lines", which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    All you can really say in the cases of Ghislaine Maxwell and Elizabeth Holmes is that a jury found them guilty of certain legal offenses, and that certain offenses have certain penalties attached to them.

    The question of whether anybody was really hurt or not is irrelevant. The important issue is that the majesty of the law be upheld and that the general public be given the message that crime doesn't pay.

    The teen prostitutes in the Maxwell case are all now millionaires, and Elizabeth Holmes's investors (marks) are not living on the street either, but that is all irrelevant.

    The only question is whether the law was broken, and whether it was enforced.

    However the law only becomes relevant when there are large amounts of money involved. During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida, and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element. And lots of people give people money every day to back various business plans and get scammed out of their money, and nothing happens because the scammers are indigent.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Bernard, @Hibernian, @PhysicistDave

    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like “wire fraud” and “crossing state lines”, which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    These aren’t so much substantive distinctions but matters of Federal vs. State jurisdiction – the Federal government’s regulatory power comes mainly from its Constitutional prerogative to manage interstate commerce, so (at least theoretically) there must be a nexus to interstate commerce for the Federal government to outlaw some conduct. Otherwise it is the affair of the State(s) in which the conduct occurred.

    The use of the “wires” (telephones, internet, etc.) is presumed to be interstate in nature, and therefore the Federal government has established a nexus to criminally regulate conduct.

    • Disagree: Abolish_public_education
  98. @usNthem
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Could be. On the other hand, it could have been plain old fashioned T & A to a bunch of wealthy, lecherous old goats.

    Replies: @Uncle Dan, @Abelard Lindsey, @Moses

    Could be. On the other hand, it could have been plain old fashioned T & A to a bunch of wealthy, lecherous old goats.

    Yeah, that was my take too. She flirted with them shamelessly. Plus they got the PR of supporting da wymyns and stuff.

    My biggest takeaway from the scandal was how easy it is to fool people who badly want to believe things like the pretty young blonde in a Steve Jobs turtleneck is gonna revolutionize the blood testing industry. People wanted to believe it, so they did.

    It’s not like the fraud was difficult to catch with normal due diligence. Not one investor or Walgreens (Walgreens!) said hey yeah take my blood and run a test and I’m gonna compare it to an established provider. And I’m gonna watch you put it in your machine and everything.

    Oh, and my other takeaway (which I already had) is how most boards are a total rubberstamp joke, easily controlled by a charismatic CEO.

    • Agree: usNthem
  99. @SimpleSong
    @PhysicistDave

    Agree, good comment.

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn't going to work. A first year med student should be able to quickly spot why this won't work. The old army guys have an excuse for being dumb, but Frist has no excuse, he comes off as a meat mechanic who turned his brain off at age 28.

    To summarize why it won't work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different. Sodium concentrations are very high outside the cell, very low inside the cell, potassium is the opposite. Some things like glucose are the same on both sides. We are usually interested in the concentrations outside the cell.

    When you stick a needle in someone you cut open a bunch of cells on the way to the vein and their contents leak out, but the blood plasma dilutes the disembowled cells so they don't mess up the values too much.

    But if you just do a fingerstick, there is no dilution, and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.

    Now for something like glucose, that is the same concentration on the inside and outside of the cell, this doesn't matter, so you can do fingerstick glucose checks. But most things you are interested in, this is not going to work.

    Also many things we measure have such low concentrations that you just simply need a certain amount of blood to get accurate measurements; there's no real way around this. Or rather, there may be ways of making each test more accurate so you can use a smaller sample size, BUT the techniques for improving accuracy are unique for each test. There's no known overarching technology to magically make all kinds of wildly different labs measuring wildly different things work better across the board. Things like glucose have a high enough concentration that you just need a drop, but most tests are measuring orders of magnitude lower concentrations, so logically you need orders of magnitude more blood.

    Aside from Frist there was a Stanford Chem Eng professor who seems to have been taken in, who should have known better. Those two should be laughingstocks.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Abelard Lindsey, @Jack D

    Bill Frist was the Senator who had to drop out at the end of his term because of claims he made about the Terry Schiavo case that turned out not to be true, and known at the time he made them. So I am not so surprised he was snowed by Elizabeth Holmes.

  100. @PhysicistDave
    @Sean

    Sean wrote:


    She is convicted, such good news for Sunny Balwani, who emails used in evidence show she was pathetically devoted to. Although Holmes was really just a front for his fraud he is now going to be able to portray her as a malevolent mastermind.
     
    No, probably not.

    If the prosecutors drop the three charges that hung the jury, Holmes cannot plead the Fifth to avoid testifying in Sunny's trial: since she is already convicted, the prosecutors could and would grant her immunity for any additional testimony she provides that might further incriminate herself.

    And she would then have to repeat the nasty things she said about Sunny.
    If she reneges on them, she is admitting to perjury.

    If Sunny is smart, he is now looking for a plea deal.

    Replies: @Sean, @Sean

    They already have charged her with perjury in the Virginia Giuffre defamation suite, even though some of the most crucial things Guifre said proved to be untrue, for example she said she met Maxwell when 15 but admitted she must have been 17 (I don’t see how anyone could honestly make a mistake like that and Giufre also accused Ehud Barak the former Israeli Prime minister of having sex with her). Anyway, Maxwell stupidly responded to the allegations by Giuffre by publicly calling her a liar and Giuffre sued, and then Maxwell had to make a deposition to the judge. It was Maxwell’s foolish failure to simply ignore the allegations in the same way that Epstein and Prince Andrew had that led to the whole thing. She was not to know that Trump having once known Epstein would become a major factor, but no one has to issue statements in response to allegations. Moral: anything detrimental to you’ll be asked on oath about in a civil case, and your answers can be the basis for criminal prosecution, so keep your trap shut and don’t fall into the old perjury one.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Sean

    Juan Alessi, house manager of Epstein’s Florida house aka brothel testified several times in various depositions re: Guiffre

    He testified under penalty of perjury he saw Guiffre coming through the kitchen door and going up the stairs to Epstein’s massage room many times in May June and July of 1998. Guiffre was born August 8 1983. She was 15 years old in May June July and till August 8 1998.

    Alessi fit the legal Penal code definition of running a house of prostitution , brothel keeping, keeping a disorderly house, house of assignation.

    The eagerness if the MEN OF UNZ to defend statutory rape and underage prostitution is amazing. If Epstein Maxwell Wexner were goyim I believe the MEN OF UNZ would be defending that disgusting trio of pimps even more vociferously.

    Replies: @Sean

  101. @PhysicistDave
    @Sean

    Sean wrote:


    She is convicted, such good news for Sunny Balwani, who emails used in evidence show she was pathetically devoted to. Although Holmes was really just a front for his fraud he is now going to be able to portray her as a malevolent mastermind.
     
    No, probably not.

    If the prosecutors drop the three charges that hung the jury, Holmes cannot plead the Fifth to avoid testifying in Sunny's trial: since she is already convicted, the prosecutors could and would grant her immunity for any additional testimony she provides that might further incriminate herself.

    And she would then have to repeat the nasty things she said about Sunny.
    If she reneges on them, she is admitting to perjury.

    If Sunny is smart, he is now looking for a plea deal.

    Replies: @Sean, @Sean

    Got a bit tangential in my previous reply to you, sorry. Anyway, Sunny is smart; he made \$40 million by selling out for stock options then and cashing them in just before the takeover company crashed over a decade ago. If he gets a plea deal now after Holmes has been convicted when do not need his testimony for getting her, it will just reinforce that no one is interested in him. The criminal prosecutions are not for any engineering failures, but a successfully over inflated stock valuation, which he has a something of a prior track record in.

  102. @Jack D
    @Abolish_public_education

    You can steal a lot more with keyboard you can with a gun. Is ransomware a speech crime?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    Is ransomware a speech crime?

    A quick search reveals that the [USDOJ] investigates ransomware attacks.

    Under our system, the speech crime of [extortion] is meant to be prosecuted at the state level. It’s always the same story: USAs asserting that some incidental element of a crime (“The [speech] was transmitted across state lines!”) gives them jurisdiction.

    Under our system, the federal government is not allowed to outlaw any kind of speech.

    • “Take this plane to Cuba or else!” should not elevate to the federal crime of piracy until some overt act or signal, on the part of the passenger, convinces the pilot to change course.

    • “Let me get on this flight to Cuba, unmasked, or else I’ll punch your lights out!” is a state [speech] crime of assault.

    (If two drunks on an overseas flight out of the US, over the open water, start killing each other, let the darn unrulies face criminal charges in the state where they lifted off. No more of this “cross state lines” baloney.)

  103. @Alden
    @Jack D

    Thank you for explaining the charges. It’s California. Black killers are often let out early to kill again. Because she’s White she might get the Kim Potter treatment. White women aren’t treated any better than White men if they get caught up in the system. It’s just that women of all races don’t commit the violent crimes men do. Violent crimes black men do that is.

    Her small child might make a difference. Husband has plenty of money. Doesn’t need to go to a workplace every day like the rest of us proles . So he can find a nice house near her prison and a nanny. And like Epstein who went to “ work” 14 or more hours a day while in the county jail, Elizabeth can spend 14,16 hours a day tending to her child in a nice house near the prison.

    Replies: @Jack D

    It’s Federal court so the Californication effect is not as great. Then again, Federal prisons, especially ones where white color offenders are held, are usually nicer than state prisons. As for not getting treated any better, I will wager that her former boyfriend/partner in crime Balwani will get a longer sentence.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @Jack D

    If Balwani gets a longer sentence what we will hear are cries of "racism!" when what we should really be hearing are cries of sexism - against men.

  104. @SimpleSong
    @PhysicistDave

    Agree, good comment.

    One guy who comes off looking really bad in all of this is Bill Frist the heart surgeon, because he should have been able to immediately spot that this isn't going to work. A first year med student should be able to quickly spot why this won't work. The old army guys have an excuse for being dumb, but Frist has no excuse, he comes off as a meat mechanic who turned his brain off at age 28.

    To summarize why it won't work: the chemistry of the intracellular fluid and the extracellular fluid is different. Sodium concentrations are very high outside the cell, very low inside the cell, potassium is the opposite. Some things like glucose are the same on both sides. We are usually interested in the concentrations outside the cell.

    When you stick a needle in someone you cut open a bunch of cells on the way to the vein and their contents leak out, but the blood plasma dilutes the disembowled cells so they don't mess up the values too much.

    But if you just do a fingerstick, there is no dilution, and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.

    Now for something like glucose, that is the same concentration on the inside and outside of the cell, this doesn't matter, so you can do fingerstick glucose checks. But most things you are interested in, this is not going to work.

    Also many things we measure have such low concentrations that you just simply need a certain amount of blood to get accurate measurements; there's no real way around this. Or rather, there may be ways of making each test more accurate so you can use a smaller sample size, BUT the techniques for improving accuracy are unique for each test. There's no known overarching technology to magically make all kinds of wildly different labs measuring wildly different things work better across the board. Things like glucose have a high enough concentration that you just need a drop, but most tests are measuring orders of magnitude lower concentrations, so logically you need orders of magnitude more blood.

    Aside from Frist there was a Stanford Chem Eng professor who seems to have been taken in, who should have known better. Those two should be laughingstocks.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Art Deco, @Wilkey, @Abelard Lindsey, @Jack D

    and you get a mix of what was outside the cells and what was inside the cells, and your values are all off.

    I don’t rule out that what she was trying to do will someday be doable. It’s just that she never did it or got close to doing it (well somewhat close – the machine was apparently able to do some limited # of tests with some (although a subpar) level of accuracy.

    There are some molecules (in addition to glucose) where the levels inside the cell and outside the cell are similar. In the case of others, maybe statistical techniques could be used based upon some assumed average level of mixing or dilution that would get you close enough.

    If she hadn’t lied about the results that they had ACTUALLY achieved (rather than HOPING to achieve) then she wouldn’t be going to prison. In her testimony, she said that these people were giving her the \$ based on what she would be doing in 5 years, not on what she was doing now.

    But at some point she and Sunny realized that they were never going to make it to 5 years unless they started lying in order to bring in revenue from current operations (the labs that they set up in Walgreens and Safeway) and additional rounds of funding.

    She had already, in accordance with the teaching of her role model Jobs, adopted a culture of secrecy (“so that your competitors don’t steal your innovations”) so it was relatively easy to start lying and whenever anyone asked probing questions it was “sorry we can’t tell you that’s a trade secret”.

    Really rich guys were throwing money at them so if anyone was too persistent in asking questions they would just drop them and the next rich guy was afraid to ask questions because he knew that if he asked too many he wouldn’t be given the “opportunity” to invest and make tons of \$ in the future. Madoff played on the same psychology.

  105. @Jack D
    @Alden

    It's Federal court so the Californication effect is not as great. Then again, Federal prisons, especially ones where white color offenders are held, are usually nicer than state prisons. As for not getting treated any better, I will wager that her former boyfriend/partner in crime Balwani will get a longer sentence.

    Replies: @Wilkey

    If Balwani gets a longer sentence what we will hear are cries of “racism!” when what we should really be hearing are cries of sexism – against men.

  106. @Bernard
    She was guilty, there is zero doubt in my mind. Given the breadth of her swindle, I’m surprised that she was convicted of so little. She fooled some very smart, wealthy people out of a lot of money for a medical advancement which would have been quite negligible, even if it did come to fruition.

    Replies: @EdwardM

    Agree she was guilty, but it’s fun to indulge in totally uninformed speculation (I suppose someone who has read the history closely is not totally uninformed, but I am), so I shall.

    It seems clear that this was not a fraud from the beginning. Holmes surely suffered from hubris, just enough intelligence and beauty, and a lack of self-reflection (about normal for a girl at her station in life), abetted by all of the “you-go-girl” adulation, manipulation by an alpha male, and indulgence by these big-shots who were apparently introduced to her without much effort on her part. It certainly became a feedback loop to which many people would be susceptible.

    She probably should have realized at some point that it was B.S., but then again the moon shots with repeated failures and countless naysayers are legendary in Silicon Valley, so I can see how she got caught up in her own hype.

    All that to say, I almost feel sorry for her. She is certainly a product of our zeitgeist. Her conviction of course should serve as a greater condemnation of that culture than of her personally.

  107. Of course there’s an Inner Party – the problem is that they just aren’t very bright. There is an abundance of evidence of this truth and we have a sterling example in today’s news: these geniuses are ginning up a war with Russia over a critical American priority – Ukraine [sarcasm alert].

  108. @stillCARealist
    @PhysicistDave

    I've been in social situations with my congressman, Tom McClintock, several times. He's quite intelligent and informed. But, then, he is a right-wing Republican (with libertarian leanings).

    Matsewage passed on his seat to his wife after he kicked, and the lame voters went right along with it. As long as it's a Democrat, who cares!

    Replies: @Jack D, @PhysicistDave

    Senators tend to be pretty smart guys (with egoes to match) but the quality of Congressmen varies greatly.

    In big cities they often used to be guys who had come up thru the unions (or like Mayor Adams in NYC, thru the police force). These guys were not necessarily book smart but they were sometimes street smart. Other times they were just dummies who did whatever their union bosses told them (and were corrupt to boot).

    Increasingly in big cities they are black with all that implies in terms of intelligence and corruptability (although they are usually from Talented Tenth/more European blood sector of blacks).

    In more rural areas they are often local pols who have risen to the level of their incompetence.

    Some of them (a few) are Future Senators and are quite smart (e.g. Schumer who spent 20 years in Congress before becoming a Senator).

    Others (especially Democrats) can be “intellectuals” who follow Orwell’s maxim that there are some ideas that are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them. Like the Congresslady (my Congresslady although an improvement on the last one who was a black guy from Philly who ended up in prison) who just got carjacked and thought that having more gun (meaning rifle) control laws would have prevented this.

    Being intelligent is not really a pre-requisite for Congress so sometimes they are and sometimes they ain’t.

    • Agree: Alden, David In TN
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    Senators tend to be pretty smart guys (with egoes to match)
     
    Have you ever met Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA)?

    Replies: @Curle

  109. @Sean
    @PhysicistDave

    They already have charged her with perjury in the Virginia Giuffre defamation suite, even though some of the most crucial things Guifre said proved to be untrue, for example she said she met Maxwell when 15 but admitted she must have been 17 (I don't see how anyone could honestly make a mistake like that and Giufre also accused Ehud Barak the former Israeli Prime minister of having sex with her). Anyway, Maxwell stupidly responded to the allegations by Giuffre by publicly calling her a liar and Giuffre sued, and then Maxwell had to make a deposition to the judge. It was Maxwell's foolish failure to simply ignore the allegations in the same way that Epstein and Prince Andrew had that led to the whole thing. She was not to know that Trump having once known Epstein would become a major factor, but no one has to issue statements in response to allegations. Moral: anything detrimental to you'll be asked on oath about in a civil case, and your answers can be the basis for criminal prosecution, so keep your trap shut and don't fall into the old perjury one.

    Replies: @Alden

    Juan Alessi, house manager of Epstein’s Florida house aka brothel testified several times in various depositions re: Guiffre

    He testified under penalty of perjury he saw Guiffre coming through the kitchen door and going up the stairs to Epstein’s massage room many times in May June and July of 1998. Guiffre was born August 8 1983. She was 15 years old in May June July and till August 8 1998.

    Alessi fit the legal Penal code definition of running a house of prostitution , brothel keeping, keeping a disorderly house, house of assignation.

    The eagerness if the MEN OF UNZ to defend statutory rape and underage prostitution is amazing. If Epstein Maxwell Wexner were goyim I believe the MEN OF UNZ would be defending that disgusting trio of pimps even more vociferously.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Alden

    Giuffre has always said she met Maxwell in her fathers place of employment: Trump's resort where she was working as a changing room attendant, and the employment records prove she must have been at least 17, as she now admits. Her own father told reporters that his daughter said she had met the Queen.. She said Prince Andrew was in an orgy with her and half a dozen underaged girls, who do not want to be millionaires like Giuffre already is because they have not come forward. I suspect that they never existed; Andrew has a proven preference for older women, not young ones. And I was told many years ago by someone privy to royal circles that he is bisexual.

    The other people Giuffre accused of having sex with her include les Wexner, he denies knowing her. Everything in this case revolves around Epstein stealing hundreds of millions from Wexner the billionaire. Guiffre may have been the subject of crimes, but even if she had not received six figure compensation (which she has) that is not a license for calumny against innocent men, no matter how wealthy, Jewish or royal.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Alden

  110. @PhysicistDave
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    Ripple Earthdevi


    l asked:I haven’t followed it closely so what’s the deal with Shultz’s grandson?
     
    My wife is friends with Erika Cheung, one of the whistle-blowers who testified in the case and who was a co-worker with Tyler Shultz.

    The bastards at Theranos put these kids through Hell: the whistleblowers had good reason to be afraid for their physical safety.

    Read Carreyrou's Bad Blood, which tells part of the story.

    Our ruling elite is very ruthless and very arrogant.

    And also, as it turns out, very, very stupid.

    To be ruled by Peter the Great can be a bit scary. But to be ruled by Beavis and Butt-head...

    God help the United States of America.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    Yes, I agree. Our elites have regressed to become at least as stupid as they are ruthless.

    I’ve dealt with stupid people and ruthless people. In some ways, it’s easier to deal with (or avoid dealing with, or hedge against) ruthless people. Stupid is like wrestling Jell-o though. And the combo of stupid and ruthless is just awful; human wrecking balls, destroying any potential for social trust so markets can function. E.g., Lebanon.

    I keep coming back to the comment I saw here, that Eisenhower v. Stevenson was the last electoral campaign between two intelligent, principled and patriotic politicians in the US.

    Nixon was intelligent, and his little hush-money scheme pales in comparison to W’s pretextual war against Iraq.

    Reagan’s Cabinet had some intellectual heft.

    Trump was a lot smarter than people thought. But he was a bombastic New York developer with no friends.

    Eventually (one hopes) we get a smarter elite that realizes it’s no fun to raise your grandkids in Brazil, even if you’re rich. But right now everybody is focused on stealing everything that isn’t nailed down.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Ever heard of Niketas Choniates? He was a Byzantine bureaucrat whose claim to fame is being our main historian for the sack of 1204-which he experienced personally-and the 60-odd years preceding it. He's absolutely merciless in detailing the rentier obsession of Byzantine elites during those decades-and the corresponding complete lack of patriotism. Short-term irrationality personified. Because of the lack of imperial legitimacy after the explosive fall of the Komnenian dynasty, the state could do little to reign them in and create the same kind of alliance between commercial and state interests that you saw in Venice. (Then again, Roman cultural attitudes toward trade were another factor. They just didn't get sea power because all the wealth came from the land tax and had since... well, the old Roman Empire.)

    But the sad thing was, he might not have given them enough credit. They knew they wouldn't be the ones to suffer under a foreign regime. And that they could escape the city, if needed, with their wealth. It's not so different from how America's governing class really might genuinely see nothing wrong with things continuing like this. They aren't the ones who will suffer. And Brazil's affluent have pretty awesome lives...

    , @northeast
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Trump is an interesting case. If you look at old YouTube clips of Trump when he was in his 30s & 40s he was indeed obviously intelligent.

    The Trump of 2016-2020 seems to me at least, to be in some kind of cognitive decline. Not the kind of decline that is in any way debilitating...just slow, sort of dull, but cappable.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    , @Rob
    @The Anti-Gnostic


    But right now everybody is focused on stealing everything that isn’t nailed down.
     
    That is so not true! They hire illegal Mexicans to take out the nails and steal it too. Some of the social capital they’re stripping off the house is load-bearing. Most of all, I fear that the whole shebang falling apart would destroy a lot of the equity rich people own. It would be so sad if lost it all.
  111. Steve makes a good point that the large investors appeared to take priority over the clear and deceitful damage caused to private citizens who directly encountered the Theranos charade. For this reason alone, this case needs to be moved out of the loonie 9th circuit.

  112. @PhysicistDave
    @anyone with a brain

    anyone with a brain wrote:


    I have been wanting to write an article, called “A MARXIST LENINIST TAKE ON THERANOS”

    the thrust of it would have been that there was no scam, all the elites investing in THERANOS knew it didn’t fucking work, basic biology and investigation would have told you that. but the true prize of THERANOS was the massive amount of health and gene data it would have collected, what Facebook did for individual’s online information, THERANOS was to do for private genetic and health information.
     
    No. I know a number of pathologists who understand the technical issues. It was never going to work at all, even in the way you describe.

    Balwani was a software guy who did not understand hardware. Very typical: the ability to shuffle bits around inside a computer does not prepare someone to deal with real engineering, where physical reality is often just not very cooperative. To put it bluntly, it takes less brains to be Bill Gates than Thomas Edison.

    And Holmes was a college dropout with no significant engineering experience. Again, building an advanced physical device takes real knowledge of physical reality, which requires actual experience.

    Tucker had on a guy tonight who pointed out the absurdity of spending years in a classroom studying bicycles but never actually trying to ride a bike until you finally got out of school.

    And engineering is harder than riding a bike.

    If Holmes, after dropping out of Stanford, had spent a decade working in relevant areas of engineering in the real world.... well, she would at least have known why her proposed device would not work.

    This is the core of my ongoing debate with my pal, Corvinus. Corvy keeps insisting that STEM people surely must engage in his sort of "discourse," address each other's verbal arguments, and all the rest.

    However, the physical world does not care about words, arguments, rules of discourse, and all the rest.

    But, you know, we want to encourage women, and we shouldn't destroy the dreams of the young, and why should we be limited by mere physical reality anyway? And we are churning out millions and millions of people like Corvinus, and giving them actual positions of authority.

    And so we get Theranos.

    Replies: @SimpleSong, @roo_ster, @Alden

    Balwani was a software guy who did not understand hardware. Very typical: the ability to shuffle bits around inside a computer does not prepare someone to deal with real engineering, where physical reality is often just not very cooperative. To put it bluntly, it takes less brains to be Bill Gates than Thomas Edison.

    This, x1000.

    Lord save me from software guys who made it into management without any hands-on with hardware or that great big mystery place known to pasty coders as “The Outdoors.”

    The worst of the lot are those where mediocre coders, but present well(1), and get promoted into management. So they never even had to construct much using only code.

    (1) Can market, may be affable, may have diversity pokemon points (not mutually exclusive)

  113. @J.Ross
    @PhysicistDave

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV but also for some Congressional bloviations. For the whole time that our illiterate journalists were decrying Donald Trump's gaffes I was unable to forget what I had observed in previous years of perfethinnel congresscritters attempting to form English sentences. I didn't even include that one guy who was worried about Guam capsizing because I didn't see that one live.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @Abolish_public_education, @Bill Jones

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV.

    BTV was “must see” back when Brian Lamb was hosting the show. BL had good taste: The authors chosen (by him?) to appear as guests were generally eloquent. They were true unknowns (i.e. not Orpah-approved) whose work would be otherwise invisible. BL had his gimmick question (“Why did you dedicate the book to … ?”) and deadpan. The only time I ever saw BL get agitated (squirm!) was while he was listening to his guest defend a section of the text that called for making big cuts to the USN budget; I believe BL was ex-USMC.

    I stopped watching the show soon after he left. The sorts of guests that were chosen changed over to established authors (opinion molders) — themselves and their conventional ideas already well known to a popular, TV viewing audience. I think the (new, for a while) show format is to use celebrity hosts: It’s a dull, mutual adoration hour that promotes the usual, Big Government line.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Tony massey
    @Abolish_public_education

    Brian lamb was what truly made paying my cable bill worth it.
    Couldn't praise that guy enough. A real American hero imo. Can't think of any other person I've seen in media in my adult life as fit a person as mr lamb.
    I could sit and watch the guy all day.
    Lost complete interest in the only quality channel on cable when he left.

    , @J.Ross
    @Abolish_public_education

    It was so damn good, it was the last best thing on TV. You had music video channels that showed music videos, TCM, Alton Brown, Canadian stuff, and early Bravo, and C-Span. Ocassionally something good on PBS. Brown flamed out in midlife crisis, the Canadians plodded along Canuckishly, music video channels stopped showing music videos, TCM went pop but still has good stuff, Bravo gradually introduced commercial breaks, censorship, and pop crap before diving headfirst into being The Gay Channel, and the rest of TV was completely forgettable. Feeling nostalgic after recently watching Tiffy tell local Texans where they could place objects on rAwTiMe.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  114. @J.Ross
    @PhysicistDave

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV but also for some Congressional bloviations. For the whole time that our illiterate journalists were decrying Donald Trump's gaffes I was unable to forget what I had observed in previous years of perfethinnel congresscritters attempting to form English sentences. I didn't even include that one guy who was worried about Guam capsizing because I didn't see that one live.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @Abolish_public_education, @Bill Jones

    I did see the Guam “gaffe” and, loathe though I am to defend the congressional filth it did seem to be an attempt at humor pegged to the idea (not wholly false) that the function of Guam was to be the worlds largest Aircraft Carrier.

  115. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Kronos


    I wonder if the prosecution and\or police had any “Basic Instinct” moments
     
    Haha, look at Newman trying to play it all cool in front of prime Sharon Stone.

    Replies: @Up2Drew

    I have multiple Chicago cops in my circle of family and friends, and they mocked the Basic Instinct scene. The narrative was: If you think that big city vice and violent crime police would be unnerved by a suspect flashing the interrogators, with what they’ve seen on the job, you’re crazy.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Up2Drew

    It’s good acting though.

  116. @Almost Missouri
    @Kronos


    the Jeffery Epstein story was published by (I think) the Daily Beast like 10 years ago.
     
    The Daily Mail?

    From what I've seen, the Daily Beast is just another reactive NYC rag with sanitized takes palatable to lefty UMC strivers. UK's Daily Mail, by contrast, employs actual investigative journalists who occasionally break new ground in a story, at least in the US, maybe they are more timid in their homeland.

    Replies: @Kronos, @guest007

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @guest007

    I Agreed this, but Whitney Webb, who publishes here among other places, has done more comprehensive, detailed examination of this than anyone else I've seen. So much so, that I hope she is taking some personal security precautions lest she become the next suicide under peculiar circumstances.

  117. @Kronos
    @Abe

    It really might be factions of the inner party trying to destroy each other. Remember, the Jeffery Epstein story was published by (I think) the Daily Beast like 10 years ago. But 3-4 years ago the MSM desided to circulate it and stuff finally started to happen. Which factions are fighting who is still largely unknown.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Abe

    It really might be factions of the inner party trying to destroy each other.

    That makes sense, as the explosion and then sudden conversion-therapy successful treatment of so many former-“Cuomosexuals” attests (I just learned that until very recently MSM-loving liberals could buy dozens of swag items- mugs, etc.- featuring a bare-chested/Michaelangelo’s DAVID-emulating Chris Cuomo on them, in an over-the-top-ironic-not-really-ironic man-love tribute to him). The Kamala Faction I guess needed to bump off any credible challengers, and if that made most parts of the Cuomo-puffing media look like complete fools, well it was a price they were willing to let them pay.

  118. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @PhysicistDave

    Yes, I agree. Our elites have regressed to become at least as stupid as they are ruthless.

    I've dealt with stupid people and ruthless people. In some ways, it's easier to deal with (or avoid dealing with, or hedge against) ruthless people. Stupid is like wrestling Jell-o though. And the combo of stupid and ruthless is just awful; human wrecking balls, destroying any potential for social trust so markets can function. E.g., Lebanon.

    I keep coming back to the comment I saw here, that Eisenhower v. Stevenson was the last electoral campaign between two intelligent, principled and patriotic politicians in the US.

    Nixon was intelligent, and his little hush-money scheme pales in comparison to W's pretextual war against Iraq.

    Reagan's Cabinet had some intellectual heft.

    Trump was a lot smarter than people thought. But he was a bombastic New York developer with no friends.

    Eventually (one hopes) we get a smarter elite that realizes it's no fun to raise your grandkids in Brazil, even if you're rich. But right now everybody is focused on stealing everything that isn't nailed down.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @northeast, @Rob

    Ever heard of Niketas Choniates? He was a Byzantine bureaucrat whose claim to fame is being our main historian for the sack of 1204-which he experienced personally-and the 60-odd years preceding it. He’s absolutely merciless in detailing the rentier obsession of Byzantine elites during those decades-and the corresponding complete lack of patriotism. Short-term irrationality personified. Because of the lack of imperial legitimacy after the explosive fall of the Komnenian dynasty, the state could do little to reign them in and create the same kind of alliance between commercial and state interests that you saw in Venice. (Then again, Roman cultural attitudes toward trade were another factor. They just didn’t get sea power because all the wealth came from the land tax and had since… well, the old Roman Empire.)

    But the sad thing was, he might not have given them enough credit. They knew they wouldn’t be the ones to suffer under a foreign regime. And that they could escape the city, if needed, with their wealth. It’s not so different from how America’s governing class really might genuinely see nothing wrong with things continuing like this. They aren’t the ones who will suffer. And Brazil’s affluent have pretty awesome lives…

    • Thanks: Alden, ic1000, The Anti-Gnostic
  119. @R.G. Camara

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.
     
    Au contraire---

    1. The Board got huge salaries and bonuses for their work, as well as stock in a rising company at the time that they could sell once all the headlines from hiring her died down but before the stock crashed due to her shenanigans.

    2. They got all the great headlines about pushing "women in STEM" and "women CEOs" from feminazis.

    3. They suffered zero legal consequences and suffered almost zero negative social/political/PR consequences from pushing her.

    Are any of them on trial for hiring her or not investigating the fraud? Are any of them bad mouthed in the corporate press for such a bad decision, hounding them out of their other jobs/speeches? Are any of them forced to give back all the money they got from being on the Board?

    There is an Inner Party. They just know the people who notice their evil have no power to stop them.

    Replies: @ic1000, @James J O'Meara, @Mike1

    “There is an Inner Party. They just know the people who notice their evil have no power to stop them.”

    Like Clay Shaw in Stone’s JFK, they “just walk between the raindrops.”

  120. @Jonathan Mason
    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like "wire fraud" and "crossing state lines", which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    All you can really say in the cases of Ghislaine Maxwell and Elizabeth Holmes is that a jury found them guilty of certain legal offenses, and that certain offenses have certain penalties attached to them.

    The question of whether anybody was really hurt or not is irrelevant. The important issue is that the majesty of the law be upheld and that the general public be given the message that crime doesn't pay.

    The teen prostitutes in the Maxwell case are all now millionaires, and Elizabeth Holmes's investors (marks) are not living on the street either, but that is all irrelevant.

    The only question is whether the law was broken, and whether it was enforced.

    However the law only becomes relevant when there are large amounts of money involved. During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida, and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element. And lots of people give people money every day to back various business plans and get scammed out of their money, and nothing happens because the scammers are indigent.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Bernard, @Hibernian, @PhysicistDave

    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like “wire fraud” and “crossing state lines”, which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    I have always considered this a bit odd myself. Wire fraud has become a catch-all for almost every crime, as the use of electronic communication takes place with nearly every human interaction these days. I might be mistaken, but I assumed that these type of laws were originally put on the books to prosecute crimes that actually occurred on a “wire”, like bank fraud , rather than their use as an incidental part of a crime.

    Using tax evasion as a tool to prosecute criminals strikes me similarly. If a criminal is required to report and pay taxes on his ill gotten gains, then by law he is losing his 5th amendment right against self incrimination. If that’s the case, shouldn’t tax evasion only be enforceable if the taxpayer is granted implicit immunity for reporting income derived from criminal activity, then fails to do so ?

  121. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @PhysicistDave

    Yes, I agree. Our elites have regressed to become at least as stupid as they are ruthless.

    I've dealt with stupid people and ruthless people. In some ways, it's easier to deal with (or avoid dealing with, or hedge against) ruthless people. Stupid is like wrestling Jell-o though. And the combo of stupid and ruthless is just awful; human wrecking balls, destroying any potential for social trust so markets can function. E.g., Lebanon.

    I keep coming back to the comment I saw here, that Eisenhower v. Stevenson was the last electoral campaign between two intelligent, principled and patriotic politicians in the US.

    Nixon was intelligent, and his little hush-money scheme pales in comparison to W's pretextual war against Iraq.

    Reagan's Cabinet had some intellectual heft.

    Trump was a lot smarter than people thought. But he was a bombastic New York developer with no friends.

    Eventually (one hopes) we get a smarter elite that realizes it's no fun to raise your grandkids in Brazil, even if you're rich. But right now everybody is focused on stealing everything that isn't nailed down.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @northeast, @Rob

    Trump is an interesting case. If you look at old YouTube clips of Trump when he was in his 30s & 40s he was indeed obviously intelligent.

    The Trump of 2016-2020 seems to me at least, to be in some kind of cognitive decline. Not the kind of decline that is in any way debilitating…just slow, sort of dull, but cappable.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @northeast

    Everyone over age 65 has brain degeneration to lesser and greater extents. Keeping protein plaques from forming in the brain doesn't seem to be a high priority in medicine. On the other hand, I am informed this new COVID vaccination is just the bee's knees.

  122. How did the Kissingers and the Schultzes “made fools of themselves”? They charged millions to nod off in trimester meetings.

    • Agree: Tony massey
  123. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @PhysicistDave

    Yes, I agree. Our elites have regressed to become at least as stupid as they are ruthless.

    I've dealt with stupid people and ruthless people. In some ways, it's easier to deal with (or avoid dealing with, or hedge against) ruthless people. Stupid is like wrestling Jell-o though. And the combo of stupid and ruthless is just awful; human wrecking balls, destroying any potential for social trust so markets can function. E.g., Lebanon.

    I keep coming back to the comment I saw here, that Eisenhower v. Stevenson was the last electoral campaign between two intelligent, principled and patriotic politicians in the US.

    Nixon was intelligent, and his little hush-money scheme pales in comparison to W's pretextual war against Iraq.

    Reagan's Cabinet had some intellectual heft.

    Trump was a lot smarter than people thought. But he was a bombastic New York developer with no friends.

    Eventually (one hopes) we get a smarter elite that realizes it's no fun to raise your grandkids in Brazil, even if you're rich. But right now everybody is focused on stealing everything that isn't nailed down.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @northeast, @Rob

    But right now everybody is focused on stealing everything that isn’t nailed down.

    That is so not true! They hire illegal Mexicans to take out the nails and steal it too. Some of the social capital they’re stripping off the house is load-bearing. Most of all, I fear that the whole shebang falling apart would destroy a lot of the equity rich people own. It would be so sad if lost it all.

  124. @Abolish_public_education
    @J.Ross

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV.

    BTV was "must see" back when Brian Lamb was hosting the show. BL had good taste: The authors chosen (by him?) to appear as guests were generally eloquent. They were true unknowns (i.e. not Orpah-approved) whose work would be otherwise invisible. BL had his gimmick question ("Why did you dedicate the book to ... ?") and deadpan. The only time I ever saw BL get agitated (squirm!) was while he was listening to his guest defend a section of the text that called for making big cuts to the USN budget; I believe BL was ex-USMC.

    I stopped watching the show soon after he left. The sorts of guests that were chosen changed over to established authors (opinion molders) -- themselves and their conventional ideas already well known to a popular, TV viewing audience. I think the (new, for a while) show format is to use celebrity hosts: It's a dull, mutual adoration hour that promotes the usual, Big Government line.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @J.Ross

    Brian lamb was what truly made paying my cable bill worth it.
    Couldn’t praise that guy enough. A real American hero imo. Can’t think of any other person I’ve seen in media in my adult life as fit a person as mr lamb.
    I could sit and watch the guy all day.
    Lost complete interest in the only quality channel on cable when he left.

  125. @Alden
    @Sean

    Juan Alessi, house manager of Epstein’s Florida house aka brothel testified several times in various depositions re: Guiffre

    He testified under penalty of perjury he saw Guiffre coming through the kitchen door and going up the stairs to Epstein’s massage room many times in May June and July of 1998. Guiffre was born August 8 1983. She was 15 years old in May June July and till August 8 1998.

    Alessi fit the legal Penal code definition of running a house of prostitution , brothel keeping, keeping a disorderly house, house of assignation.

    The eagerness if the MEN OF UNZ to defend statutory rape and underage prostitution is amazing. If Epstein Maxwell Wexner were goyim I believe the MEN OF UNZ would be defending that disgusting trio of pimps even more vociferously.

    Replies: @Sean

    Giuffre has always said she met Maxwell in her fathers place of employment: Trump’s resort where she was working as a changing room attendant, and the employment records prove she must have been at least 17, as she now admits. Her own father told reporters that his daughter said she had met the Queen.. She said Prince Andrew was in an orgy with her and half a dozen underaged girls, who do not want to be millionaires like Giuffre already is because they have not come forward. I suspect that they never existed; Andrew has a proven preference for older women, not young ones. And I was told many years ago by someone privy to royal circles that he is bisexual.

    The other people Giuffre accused of having sex with her include les Wexner, he denies knowing her. Everything in this case revolves around Epstein stealing hundreds of millions from Wexner the billionaire. Guiffre may have been the subject of crimes, but even if she had not received six figure compensation (which she has) that is not a license for calumny against innocent men, no matter how wealthy, Jewish or royal.

    • Disagree: Tjoe
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Sean

    That is tame compared to our foreign "friends". You don't want to know the kind of crap Saudi rich boys sponsored by the US military get up to with prostitutes Stateside. Trust me.

    As Aeschylus' watchman said: those who already know will know I'm alluding to. For the rest, I am silent. A great ox borne of disgust stands on my tongue.

    , @Alden
    @Sean

    Mar a Lago employment records show she began working there in April 1998 when she was 15 years old. Date of birth August 9 1983. Juan Alessi house manager made depositions in several of her cases. In each Alessi stated that he saw Guiffre enter through the kitchen door and go up the stairs to Epstein’s massage room in May June and July of 1998 when she was 15 years old. August 9 1998 she turned 16. Still underage in Florida Age of Consent Florida 18

    Source directly copied from Alessi’s depositions in Brad Edwards book about the victims , Relentless Pursuit. Or as the MEN OF UNZ prefer to call the girls nasty greedy sluts. Who dared be compensated from the Federal Victims of Crime Fund because the FBI and US attorneys did not follow proper procedures as REQUIRED by the Federal Victims Of Crimes act.

    All victims of federal crimes whose rights under the Federal Victims of Crimes Act have been violated by the federal prosecutors FBI or any other federal agency are entitled to compensation. Not just sex trafficking but victims of any and all federal crimes in which the investigators and prosecutors violate the rights of the victims under the Federal Victims of Crimes Act.

    So buy or read Relentless Pursuit by Brad Edwards and find the testimony that Guiffre was 15 in May June and July 1998 when she was seen going into Epstein’s massage room. Many times.

    Some of the MEN OF UNZ can never stop defending Maxwell Epstein and defending prostitution of minors. And sex with minors. You are so ignorant you don’t realize pimping and prostitution are illegal.

    Replies: @Sean

  126. @ic1000
    @Warner

    > 1984 is a pretty famous book

    Agree. A small miss from a reliably excellent commenter.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    ic1000 says:
    January 4, 2022 at 12:53 pm GMT • 9.5 hours ago ↑

    > 1984 is a pretty famous book

    Agree. A small miss from a reliably excellent commenter.

    Disagree. It’s a huge miss, a disqualifying miss.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Anonymous

    "... disqualifying .."

    Everyone has the occasional lapse.

  127. @Clyde
    Inside the world of Elizabeth Holmes: How the disgraced Theranos founder styled herself on Steve Jobs, spoke in a fake baritone, told people her husky was a WOLF and captivated old, powerful men who invested millions before her empire collapsed
    A jury has found Elizabeth Holmes guilty of four charges in fraud case that lasted 14 weeks
    Holmes, 37, is the disgraced founder of Theranos, a 'breakthrough' blood-testing startup that defrauded investors of $9billion and patients with inaccurate and unreliable results
    After the company went kaput in 2018, bizarre details of Holmes' life have been made public: like how she styled herself after Steve Jobs, spoke in a fake baritone voice and claimed that her Husky dog was a wolf
    Former employees recalled how the office was overrun by the dog defecating and peeing in the boardroom
    The trial also revealed steamy texts between Holmes and the company's COO Ramesh 'Sunny' Balwani, with whom she had a secret affair and alleged that he abused her and forced her to have sex
    Balwani famously got his employees to chant 'F***k you' to a rival competitor while dancing to MC Hammer in a rollicking staff meeting
    From her Steve Jobs-inspired turtlenecks to claims that she doesn't blink her eyes, DailyMail.com recounts Elizabeth Holmes' long list of deceits and most outlandish moments below
    By TATE DELLOYE FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
    PUBLISHED: 19:32 EST, 3 January 2022 | UPDATED: 23:12 EST, 3 January 2022
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10358929/Inside-weird-world-disgraced-Theranos-founder-Elizabeth-Holmes-styled-Steve-Jobs.html#comments

    Replies: @acementhead

    “Balwani famously got his employees to chant ‘F***k you’ to a rival competitor while dancing to MC Hammer…”

    Ah thanks for reminding me of the other dancing Bal man; but was he, Balwani, as good?

    • Replies: @Tony massey
    @acementhead

    The Embalmer. A real sleaze if ever. I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the cleverness he displayed at theft and what an excellent liar he was to complement his character.
    A real go getter. His demise was a big come back to earth moment i bet.
    No doubt it was all worth it.
    So long as Bill is round to carry on his spirit.

    Replies: @clyde

  128. @stillCARealist
    @PhysicistDave

    I've been in social situations with my congressman, Tom McClintock, several times. He's quite intelligent and informed. But, then, he is a right-wing Republican (with libertarian leanings).

    Matsewage passed on his seat to his wife after he kicked, and the lame voters went right along with it. As long as it's a Democrat, who cares!

    Replies: @Jack D, @PhysicistDave

    stillCARealist wrote to me:

    I’ve been in social situations with my congressman, Tom McClintock, several times. He’s quite intelligent and informed. But, then, he is a right-wing Republican (with libertarian leanings).

    Yeah, I also have been in a medium-sized group with McClintock (we live within the city limits of Sacramento, not too far from his district)– I actually got to ask him a question, though I did not get to chat with him one-on-one.

    Indeed, not an idiot.

    Watching Nunes in interviews, he too seems not to be an idiot.

    But the majority… Beavis and Butt-head.

  129. @PhysicistDave
    @anyone with a brain

    anyone with a brain wrote:


    I have been wanting to write an article, called “A MARXIST LENINIST TAKE ON THERANOS”

    the thrust of it would have been that there was no scam, all the elites investing in THERANOS knew it didn’t fucking work, basic biology and investigation would have told you that. but the true prize of THERANOS was the massive amount of health and gene data it would have collected, what Facebook did for individual’s online information, THERANOS was to do for private genetic and health information.
     
    No. I know a number of pathologists who understand the technical issues. It was never going to work at all, even in the way you describe.

    Balwani was a software guy who did not understand hardware. Very typical: the ability to shuffle bits around inside a computer does not prepare someone to deal with real engineering, where physical reality is often just not very cooperative. To put it bluntly, it takes less brains to be Bill Gates than Thomas Edison.

    And Holmes was a college dropout with no significant engineering experience. Again, building an advanced physical device takes real knowledge of physical reality, which requires actual experience.

    Tucker had on a guy tonight who pointed out the absurdity of spending years in a classroom studying bicycles but never actually trying to ride a bike until you finally got out of school.

    And engineering is harder than riding a bike.

    If Holmes, after dropping out of Stanford, had spent a decade working in relevant areas of engineering in the real world.... well, she would at least have known why her proposed device would not work.

    This is the core of my ongoing debate with my pal, Corvinus. Corvy keeps insisting that STEM people surely must engage in his sort of "discourse," address each other's verbal arguments, and all the rest.

    However, the physical world does not care about words, arguments, rules of discourse, and all the rest.

    But, you know, we want to encourage women, and we shouldn't destroy the dreams of the young, and why should we be limited by mere physical reality anyway? And we are churning out millions and millions of people like Corvinus, and giving them actual positions of authority.

    And so we get Theranos.

    Replies: @SimpleSong, @roo_ster, @Alden

    Holmes might have worked with some kind of engineer, a medical person and a machinist?? the person someone who actually made the prototype device.

    Thanks for all your informative comments especially about Ms Cheung

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Alden

    Alden asked me:


    Holmes might have worked with some kind of engineer, a medical person and a machinist?? the person someone who actually made the prototype device.
     
    Oh, yeah -- Holmes had various engineers and STEM people working for her.

    Two problems:

    First, any competent engineer should have gone to Holmes early on and told her that what she wanted to do was so difficult as probably to be impossible given the current state of technology.

    Second, Holmes' medical directors (my wife tells me Holmes ran through at least three sequentially) had a legal obligation to refuse to sign off on a lot of stuff that they did sign off on at the insistence of Holmes, Balwani, et al. Now, of course, had they refused, Holmes would have just fired them and found someone who was more pliable, but there are times when you have to be willing to be fired.

    My wife and I have both seen this again and again and again in our careers: a large fraction of people in managerial and professional positions in the USA today -- a majority, I think -- are so afraid of losing their cushy careers that they are willing to break the law, in serious ways, to keep the dough, the juicy salaries and nice benefits, rolling in.

    Erika and Tyler were young enough and idealistic enough to do the right thing. My wife and I have seen very, very few professionals and managers who have similar courage. The people we have interacted with personally who proved to be utterly lacking in courage and integrity have included large numbers of physicians, academic scientists, engineering managers, university administrators, and (of course!) lawyers.

    When the dominant social class in a society is deeply corrupt, can (or should) that society survive?

    Replies: @Alden

  130. @Reg Cæsar
    Roughly on-topic; some insomnia-inspired questions:

    If you create artificial intelligence, will you be duty-bound to support it for 18 years?

    Will there be custody battles over such intelligences? Jacob Blake-like affairs?

    Replies: @Alden

    Laugh Out Load great post Reg.

  131. These powerful old dudes weren’t “feminists.”

    They were just incompetent, lazy, and (above all else) horny.

  132. @Ripple Earthdevil
    @pirelli

    I haven't followed it closely so what's the deal with Shultz's grandson?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @HA

    “I haven’t followed it closely so what’s the deal with Shultz’s grandson?”

    As of 3 years ago, they were reconciled.

    • Replies: @HA
    @HA

    "As of 3 years ago, they were reconciled."

    (Should have added that however frosty or formal that reconciliation may have been, I presume -- and daresay I hope -- that it lasted until the grandfather's death about a year ago.)

  133. @Sean
    @houston 1992

    Article by Camila Long, who went to the same school. Maxwell's haltingly delivered TED talk is pretty good evidence too. As is her not leaving the US for France, which she could not have been been extradited from, during the several months she was free to do so. All media assumed she had left the US. What an idiot! Apart from the detention in an anti suicide turtle suit and being woke up every hour to check she was alive, very difficult to fight a case from jail. They probably had her on meds.

    Replies: @Alden

    Here’s a thought. Given the major scandal after Epstein allegedly killed him self could it be possible the French government discretely informed her that if she came back to France and was found by American law enforcement the French government would waive the law and extradite her to America?

    Just a thought. Or maybe she was so madly in love with her first ever husband she couldn’t bear to leave him? ha ha ha ha.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Alden

    Epstein would not marry her, which is what she clearly wanted. I think her usefulness for Epstien was social entre, but she is incredibly stupid to think she was going to get him to wed by getting him girls.
    https://i1.wp.com/hemantekkahotandviral.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/51493969-10292299-Epstein_and_Maxwell_are_seen_on_board_the_Lolita_Express_with_Fr-m-7_1639054845791.jpg?resize=634%2C445&ssl=1

    The guy in the silly trousers is


    French modeling agent Jean-Luc Brunel in a Paris court this week ...

    The closed-door testimony from Virginia Roberts Giuffre, 37, is the latest turn in the international investigation into Epstein and people accused of being his co-conspirators.

    It is not clear what Giuffre told the closed-door hearing, but her court appearance comes after years of accusations against Brunel. Giuffre said in a 2016 deposition, made public in 2019, that Epstein and British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell had directed her to provide sexual services for Brunel. And speaking to NBC's "Dateline" in a special that aired in 2019, Giuffre said Epstein told her that he had slept with "over a thousand women that Brunel brought in."
     

    Brunel left America and went into hiding immediately after Epstein committed suicide.

    Replies: @clyde

  134. @R.G. Camara

    There is no Inner Party who actually knows what’s going on. If there is a well-informed Inner Party, Henry Kissinger and the other Theranos board members — George Shultz (former Secretary of State), “William Perry (former U.S. Secretary of Defense), Henry Kissinger (former U.S. Secretary of State), Sam Nunn (former U.S. Senator), Bill Frist (former U.S. Senator, senate majority leader and heart-transplant surgeon), Gary Roughead (Admiral, USN, retired), Jim Mattis (General, USMC), Richard Kovacevich (former Wells Fargo Chairman and CEO) and Riley P. Bechtel (chairman of the board and former CEO at Bechtel Group) — would be in it. But they just made fools of themselves.
     
    Au contraire---

    1. The Board got huge salaries and bonuses for their work, as well as stock in a rising company at the time that they could sell once all the headlines from hiring her died down but before the stock crashed due to her shenanigans.

    2. They got all the great headlines about pushing "women in STEM" and "women CEOs" from feminazis.

    3. They suffered zero legal consequences and suffered almost zero negative social/political/PR consequences from pushing her.

    Are any of them on trial for hiring her or not investigating the fraud? Are any of them bad mouthed in the corporate press for such a bad decision, hounding them out of their other jobs/speeches? Are any of them forced to give back all the money they got from being on the Board?

    There is an Inner Party. They just know the people who notice their evil have no power to stop them.

    Replies: @ic1000, @James J O'Meara, @Mike1

    Steve confuses being on the inside with being competent.

  135. @HA
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    "I haven’t followed it closely so what’s the deal with Shultz’s grandson?"

    As of 3 years ago, they were reconciled.

    Replies: @HA

    “As of 3 years ago, they were reconciled.”

    (Should have added that however frosty or formal that reconciliation may have been, I presume — and daresay I hope — that it lasted until the grandfather’s death about a year ago.)

  136. @Sean
    @Alden

    Giuffre has always said she met Maxwell in her fathers place of employment: Trump's resort where she was working as a changing room attendant, and the employment records prove she must have been at least 17, as she now admits. Her own father told reporters that his daughter said she had met the Queen.. She said Prince Andrew was in an orgy with her and half a dozen underaged girls, who do not want to be millionaires like Giuffre already is because they have not come forward. I suspect that they never existed; Andrew has a proven preference for older women, not young ones. And I was told many years ago by someone privy to royal circles that he is bisexual.

    The other people Giuffre accused of having sex with her include les Wexner, he denies knowing her. Everything in this case revolves around Epstein stealing hundreds of millions from Wexner the billionaire. Guiffre may have been the subject of crimes, but even if she had not received six figure compensation (which she has) that is not a license for calumny against innocent men, no matter how wealthy, Jewish or royal.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Alden

    That is tame compared to our foreign “friends”. You don’t want to know the kind of crap Saudi rich boys sponsored by the US military get up to with prostitutes Stateside. Trust me.

    As Aeschylus’ watchman said: those who already know will know I’m alluding to. For the rest, I am silent. A great ox borne of disgust stands on my tongue.

  137. @Sean
    @Alden

    Giuffre has always said she met Maxwell in her fathers place of employment: Trump's resort where she was working as a changing room attendant, and the employment records prove she must have been at least 17, as she now admits. Her own father told reporters that his daughter said she had met the Queen.. She said Prince Andrew was in an orgy with her and half a dozen underaged girls, who do not want to be millionaires like Giuffre already is because they have not come forward. I suspect that they never existed; Andrew has a proven preference for older women, not young ones. And I was told many years ago by someone privy to royal circles that he is bisexual.

    The other people Giuffre accused of having sex with her include les Wexner, he denies knowing her. Everything in this case revolves around Epstein stealing hundreds of millions from Wexner the billionaire. Guiffre may have been the subject of crimes, but even if she had not received six figure compensation (which she has) that is not a license for calumny against innocent men, no matter how wealthy, Jewish or royal.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Alden

    Mar a Lago employment records show she began working there in April 1998 when she was 15 years old. Date of birth August 9 1983. Juan Alessi house manager made depositions in several of her cases. In each Alessi stated that he saw Guiffre enter through the kitchen door and go up the stairs to Epstein’s massage room in May June and July of 1998 when she was 15 years old. August 9 1998 she turned 16. Still underage in Florida Age of Consent Florida 18

    Source directly copied from Alessi’s depositions in Brad Edwards book about the victims , Relentless Pursuit. Or as the MEN OF UNZ prefer to call the girls nasty greedy sluts. Who dared be compensated from the Federal Victims of Crime Fund because the FBI and US attorneys did not follow proper procedures as REQUIRED by the Federal Victims Of Crimes act.

    All victims of federal crimes whose rights under the Federal Victims of Crimes Act have been violated by the federal prosecutors FBI or any other federal agency are entitled to compensation. Not just sex trafficking but victims of any and all federal crimes in which the investigators and prosecutors violate the rights of the victims under the Federal Victims of Crimes Act.

    So buy or read Relentless Pursuit by Brad Edwards and find the testimony that Guiffre was 15 in May June and July 1998 when she was seen going into Epstein’s massage room. Many times.

    Some of the MEN OF UNZ can never stop defending Maxwell Epstein and defending prostitution of minors. And sex with minors. You are so ignorant you don’t realize pimping and prostitution are illegal.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Alden

    Calumny is a criminal offence under the Italian Penal Code, which states:


    Anyone who with a denunciation, complaint, demand or request, even anonymously or under a false name, directs a judicial authority or other authority that has an obligation to report, to blame someone for a crime who he knows is innocent, that is he fabricates evidence against someone, shall be punished with imprisonment from two to six years. The penalty shall be increased if the accused blames someone of a crime for which the law prescribes a penalty of imprisonment exceeding a maximum of ten years, or another more serious penalty. The imprisonment shall be from four to twelve years if the act results in a prison sentence exceeding five years, from six to twenty years if the act results in a life sentence.
     
    When she was 14 years old Giuffre accused a 17 year old boy and an 18 year old 'man' of holding her prisoner and raping her. Her stories about powerful men she slept with as Epstein's "sex slave" are unlikely to be true in my opinion, and the opinion of prosecutors apparently.
  138. @Jack D
    1. If you look at the counts she was convicted on, they were the really serious ones in terms of $ - wire fraud of $99 million, etc. Acquitted of the minor counts such as giving $45 faulty blood test results to patients.

    2. These counts EACH carry prison terms up to 20 years. Unless you are Madoff, these are usually served concurrently, so 3 counts of fraud get you (almost) as much time as 7 counts. Juries often don't realize this and will "compromise" by spitting the verdict. This does the defendant little good.

    3. She is a 1st offender and a nice white lady so they are not going to give her 20 years. Maybe something like 2 to 5 years. 7 would be the absolute maximum but I'd be surprised if she got that much. That's my prediction. Meanwhile her lawyers will drag the appeals out for years.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Ghost of Bull Moose, @Alden, @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman

    Juries often don’t realize this and will “compromise” by spitting the verdict. This does the defendant little good.

    To say nothing of being unhygienic and unsightly.

    [MORE]
    Spitting, that is.

  139. @acementhead
    @Clyde


    "Balwani famously got his employees to chant ‘F***k you’ to a rival competitor while dancing to MC Hammer..."
     
    Ah thanks for reminding me of the other dancing Bal man; but was he, Balwani, as good?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edN4o8F9_P4

    Replies: @Tony massey

    The Embalmer. A real sleaze if ever. I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the cleverness he displayed at theft and what an excellent liar he was to complement his character.
    A real go getter. His demise was a big come back to earth moment i bet.
    No doubt it was all worth it.
    So long as Bill is round to carry on his spirit.

    • Replies: @clyde
    @Tony massey

    Steve Ballmar sent MS into the toilet. I swear its stock was at $29 for 10 years. The Indian dude in charge now has been sending MS stock up for 5 years or so and making MS larger and more profitable. Windows 11 is a great release. Though these days their Windows revenue is a small part of their business. It is kind of a loss leader and keeps people in the MS ecosystem.
    Ages ago - 20-30 years ago Most MS revenue and profits came from Windows licenses. Individual license was $100 for home computer builders. For Dell and HP buying Windows licenses in vast volumes, $50 to slap windows on their computers.

  140. @northeast
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Trump is an interesting case. If you look at old YouTube clips of Trump when he was in his 30s & 40s he was indeed obviously intelligent.

    The Trump of 2016-2020 seems to me at least, to be in some kind of cognitive decline. Not the kind of decline that is in any way debilitating...just slow, sort of dull, but cappable.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    Everyone over age 65 has brain degeneration to lesser and greater extents. Keeping protein plaques from forming in the brain doesn’t seem to be a high priority in medicine. On the other hand, I am informed this new COVID vaccination is just the bee’s knees.

  141. @Jonathan Mason
    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like "wire fraud" and "crossing state lines", which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    All you can really say in the cases of Ghislaine Maxwell and Elizabeth Holmes is that a jury found them guilty of certain legal offenses, and that certain offenses have certain penalties attached to them.

    The question of whether anybody was really hurt or not is irrelevant. The important issue is that the majesty of the law be upheld and that the general public be given the message that crime doesn't pay.

    The teen prostitutes in the Maxwell case are all now millionaires, and Elizabeth Holmes's investors (marks) are not living on the street either, but that is all irrelevant.

    The only question is whether the law was broken, and whether it was enforced.

    However the law only becomes relevant when there are large amounts of money involved. During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida, and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element. And lots of people give people money every day to back various business plans and get scammed out of their money, and nothing happens because the scammers are indigent.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Bernard, @Hibernian, @PhysicistDave

    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like “wire fraud” and “crossing state lines”, which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    The limited powers of the Federal Government were intended as a bulwark against tyranny, but the Federal power to regulate interstate commerce has been magnified to create a central police power similar to that of France and other centralized nations. BTW the US is not the only nation in the world with a Federal system. Switzerland and Mexico come to mind. Not sure about Swtzerland, but in Mexico the States still have some power left, similar to the US.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Hibernian

    Switzerland the Cantons have a lot of power. Germany has Statts? Because we imposed an American states and national government on Germany after WW2.

    The American individual state system allows a lot of crime, both common stealing and then selling the stolen cars. And corporate crime incorporating in one state and committing crimes on one state making it difficult for the de frauded to sue and be compensated.

    Not good or bad. It is what it is. Think about state building codes Should the Deep South have the same roofing codes as the far northern states whose roofs must be sturdy enough to bear the weight of 5 months of 3 or 4 feet of snow?

    The problem in the United States is that nine minions of Satan on the Supreme Court can make or abolish any federal or state law or county or city ordinance or just about anything they wish.

    The old Anglo Saxon Common Law so beloved by idiots with Walter Scott disease. Worst legal system in the world.

    Replies: @Curle, @Hibernian

  142. @Tony massey
    @Kronos

    If you grew up watching go team venture its doubtful you had any clue what was glib or not.
    Greatest gen x show of all time.
    But yeh you can learn alot of useful stuff watching.

    Replies: @Kronos

    My parents made the best mistake ever by putting a decent television in my bedroom. As a young millennial I indulged in late Gen X devised content from Comedy Central and Adult Swim (which isn’t a porn thing.) I loved watching the misadventures of Dr. Rusty Venture. I loved my irony thick! Probably my favorite character was “Action Johnny” a spoof on Johnny Quest. That realistically, bringing your son on countless dangerous adventures might give him PTSD and turn him into a adult mental wreck.

  143. @Gordo
    https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/a21d71b/2147483647/strip/true/crop/600x388+0+0/resize/880x569!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Flegacy%2Fsites%2Fkwgs%2Ffiles%2F202104%2Fbad-blood-pic.jpg

    Everyone should read it.

    Replies: @Kronos

    Our very own Steve Sailer did an excellent review on that very book. I bought it on his recommendation and enjoyed it.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/blood_simple_steve_sailer/

  144. @Tony massey
    I can't help but feel I've had Liz all wrong. Theirs no way a jury of my peers would ever think of convicting me no matter what ya know. Geez I'd kill those guys if they hung me over whatever's. What kind of peers does she have and after all she's been thru?
    I also think this is a good opportunity for me to introduce myself to Liz and per chance strike up a fanciful relationship. I know she'll be glad to get my letters. Gotta be boring when you're in a cdoc women's prison and you're only gay for the stay.
    I can't wait for cdoc to post that address. The future just started looking ☝.
    I'd wait for a gal like that. Must be something up that skirt to have ol hank sniffing round. What is he like... hasn't killinger actually been dead for over a decade now and THEY just say he's still alive?
    If she was 👌 by Hank she's good enough for me i reckon.
    What kind of peers does she have convicting her like that? Can't wait to write her.

    Replies: @Prof. Woland

    A big problem with financial fraud / crime is that it is a ‘high trust’ business and it makes it 10x harder to do business for the next guy. Clients don’t want to invest and it forces the regulators to come up with a slough of laws that create red tape wasting everybody’s time and energy. Holmes should not only pick up beer cans on the side of highway in an orange jump suit but also pay back every nickel she lost plus penalties. When everyone is whole again she can regain her freedom and property.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Tony massey
    @Prof. Woland

    I'm a misinformed iSteve reader. I was under the impression it was a club and once they said you were good hey...you were good.
    Gosh...its been so long i confuse my 80s greed is good crooks.
    Which one did Ted Turner give about 40 million to for consulting once he was let from his gilded cage. Milken? Boesky?
    My uncle lost money(not alot) in an s&l back in the 80s. Neil bush headed that heist. Prolly his first one. That was the first end of the world finacial crime in my life. The Keating 5 i only remember keating(some old guy)and John McCain.
    Various finacial crimes of the past century and this once since of course that prolly rival crimes of any era.
    Even i huffed over Enron. Who did those guys tink they were? Kenny boy was good people no doubt but those bushies tho know how to cash in on your failures don't they.
    Not sure whatever happened to Jeffery skilling but if theirs any second acts left in America you might see him leading the dept of Treasury if hope is still alive in the world.
    Financial crimes aside the things that have always stuck out the most to me was the extremely violent nature of man when it came to ya know...money.
    The guy that bought the Brooklyn bridge had every right to be pretty pussed in the face when he learned it was just a con. Poor bastard.
    Isn't America so far as biz goes these days just boxes traveling back and forth with our merchandise or returns?
    Who does biz in America? You gotta be a fool to trust any of those crooks. I mean business men.
    Take away greed and the need to print endless debt evaporates and honestly my life wouldn't change.
    What are you a professor in?
    One of my heroes is professor chaos. Sharp fella.

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Prof. Woland

    Prof. Woland wrote:


    Holmes should not only pick up beer cans on the side of highway in an orange jump suit but also pay back every nickel she lost plus penalties. When everyone is whole again she can regain her freedom and property.
     
    More important than jail time is some agreement that prevents her from ever sitting in the C-suite in any corporation for the rest of her life.

    She is going to try to do it again.
  145. @Up2Drew
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I have multiple Chicago cops in my circle of family and friends, and they mocked the Basic Instinct scene. The narrative was: If you think that big city vice and violent crime police would be unnerved by a suspect flashing the interrogators, with what they've seen on the job, you're crazy.

    Replies: @Kronos

    It’s good acting though.

  146. @Abolish_public_education
    @J.Ross

    I used to watch C-Span regularly, mainly for BookTV.

    BTV was "must see" back when Brian Lamb was hosting the show. BL had good taste: The authors chosen (by him?) to appear as guests were generally eloquent. They were true unknowns (i.e. not Orpah-approved) whose work would be otherwise invisible. BL had his gimmick question ("Why did you dedicate the book to ... ?") and deadpan. The only time I ever saw BL get agitated (squirm!) was while he was listening to his guest defend a section of the text that called for making big cuts to the USN budget; I believe BL was ex-USMC.

    I stopped watching the show soon after he left. The sorts of guests that were chosen changed over to established authors (opinion molders) -- themselves and their conventional ideas already well known to a popular, TV viewing audience. I think the (new, for a while) show format is to use celebrity hosts: It's a dull, mutual adoration hour that promotes the usual, Big Government line.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @J.Ross

    It was so damn good, it was the last best thing on TV. You had music video channels that showed music videos, TCM, Alton Brown, Canadian stuff, and early Bravo, and C-Span. Ocassionally something good on PBS. Brown flamed out in midlife crisis, the Canadians plodded along Canuckishly, music video channels stopped showing music videos, TCM went pop but still has good stuff, Bravo gradually introduced commercial breaks, censorship, and pop crap before diving headfirst into being The Gay Channel, and the rest of TV was completely forgettable. Feeling nostalgic after recently watching Tiffy tell local Texans where they could place objects on rAwTiMe.

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @J.Ross

    I meant Booknotes. It has been so long since I watched it that I confused the name/network.

    I agree that TV is a waste of bandwidth. We subscribe for the i'net/phone and discount mobile. For us, the 500 channels of video package (non-stop PC commercials) might as well be 3 home improvement stations and the local news. I might as well setup to skip tye 24hr sputz and nues. Occasionally I page up to the 300s to watch reruns of Johnny Carson, Carol Burnett, and Perry Mason.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  147. @Anon
    @Clyde

    I think the Theranos debacle demonstrates less the existence of an "inner party" than a lower-level network effect among the rich and powerful. I think such people often hear about things from each other and, assuming their peers are acting on good information, join in too. It could be as simple as, "What's your favorite restaurant in Gastaad?", or "Who's a good plastic surgeon in this area," or " What's the best place to stay in Martha's Vinyard?" or "Do you have a recommendation for a good law firm to set up trusts?" There is a snowball effect as more of the rich and powerful join in. Here, as many have alluded to, the "female Steve Jobs" aspect added some sizzle.

    It is interesting to see the lack of their own due diligence in this, and presumably other, matters.

    Replies: @clyde

    I think the Theranos debacle demonstrates less the existence of an “inner party” than a lower-level network effect among the rich and powerful. I think such people often hear about things from each other and, assuming their peers are acting on good information, join in too. It could be as simple as, “What’s your favorite restaurant in Gastaad?”, or “Who’s a good plastic surgeon in this area,” or ” What’s the best place to stay in Martha’s Vinyard?” or “Do you have a recommendation for a good law firm to set up trusts?” There is a snowball effect as more of the rich and powerful join in.

    Of course the ultra elites and billionaires exchange health tips, longevity tips and the doctors and lawyers to see, insider information on stocks and investments. I would say mostly done in social settings, such as the Mediterranean yachting scene in the summer. Meets at the Aspen Institute, Davos etc. etc. etc.____ About 10 years ago I noticed that David Geffen’s wealth at the Forbes 400 went up a billion a year. This guy has not been in the record business or movie making for ages. But he has a Yacht. He is very sociable and very networking. He is getting insider tip-offs, on up and coming sure thing investments. (so says Clyde) There are many Geffens out there.

    David Geffen Is Isolating On His \$590 Million Yacht– https://www.thethings.com/david-geffen-is-isolating-on-his-590-million-yacht-a-look-inside
    David has been yachting all over the place since early 2020. He’s cruised the world, pausing in the South of France or the Caribbean for a time. Back in September, Massachusetts was all over twitter when the yacht pulled into New Bedford State Pier for repairs and refueling. Don’t worry, Geffen is on the move again.

  148. @Tony massey
    @acementhead

    The Embalmer. A real sleaze if ever. I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the cleverness he displayed at theft and what an excellent liar he was to complement his character.
    A real go getter. His demise was a big come back to earth moment i bet.
    No doubt it was all worth it.
    So long as Bill is round to carry on his spirit.

    Replies: @clyde

    Steve Ballmar sent MS into the toilet. I swear its stock was at \$29 for 10 years. The Indian dude in charge now has been sending MS stock up for 5 years or so and making MS larger and more profitable. Windows 11 is a great release. Though these days their Windows revenue is a small part of their business. It is kind of a loss leader and keeps people in the MS ecosystem.
    Ages ago – 20-30 years ago Most MS revenue and profits came from Windows licenses. Individual license was \$100 for home computer builders. For Dell and HP buying Windows licenses in vast volumes, \$50 to slap windows on their computers.

  149. @Prof. Woland
    @Tony massey

    A big problem with financial fraud / crime is that it is a 'high trust' business and it makes it 10x harder to do business for the next guy. Clients don't want to invest and it forces the regulators to come up with a slough of laws that create red tape wasting everybody's time and energy. Holmes should not only pick up beer cans on the side of highway in an orange jump suit but also pay back every nickel she lost plus penalties. When everyone is whole again she can regain her freedom and property.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @PhysicistDave

    I’m a misinformed iSteve reader. I was under the impression it was a club and once they said you were good hey…you were good.
    Gosh…its been so long i confuse my 80s greed is good crooks.
    Which one did Ted Turner give about 40 million to for consulting once he was let from his gilded cage. Milken? Boesky?
    My uncle lost money(not alot) in an s&l back in the 80s. Neil bush headed that heist. Prolly his first one. That was the first end of the world finacial crime in my life. The Keating 5 i only remember keating(some old guy)and John McCain.
    Various finacial crimes of the past century and this once since of course that prolly rival crimes of any era.
    Even i huffed over Enron. Who did those guys tink they were? Kenny boy was good people no doubt but those bushies tho know how to cash in on your failures don’t they.
    Not sure whatever happened to Jeffery skilling but if theirs any second acts left in America you might see him leading the dept of Treasury if hope is still alive in the world.
    Financial crimes aside the things that have always stuck out the most to me was the extremely violent nature of man when it came to ya know…money.
    The guy that bought the Brooklyn bridge had every right to be pretty pussed in the face when he learned it was just a con. Poor bastard.
    Isn’t America so far as biz goes these days just boxes traveling back and forth with our merchandise or returns?
    Who does biz in America? You gotta be a fool to trust any of those crooks. I mean business men.
    Take away greed and the need to print endless debt evaporates and honestly my life wouldn’t change.
    What are you a professor in?
    One of my heroes is professor chaos. Sharp fella.

  150. @Pericles
    @Sean


    But who was she orchestrating the trafficking of these under age girls to? Nobody that anyone is interested in bringing to book obviously.

     

    I, for one, am quite interested. There appeared to be plenty of evidence so it shouldn't be too hard (oh, if that evidence could just be located again.) And furthermore, who was she orchestrating for, if you see my point?

    We can however be certain that your princess Ghislaine does not in any way want a public investigation -- she will very much prefer to keep her mouth shut in prison for a decent but short time then slither off and forever stonewall all inquiries. But I expect there to be a decent media effort at salvaging her reputation afterwards.

    Replies: @TWS

    Not being suicided is always an incentive to clam up. She really is a victim if you’re inclined to fuzzy thinking and squint just right

  151. @Anonymous
    @PhysicistDave

    And if Theranos with all of its talent had developed a breakthrough technology— even if it fell short of the hype— Holmes would today be giving commencement speeches at Stanford and HBS. And in sit-down talks in front of business and tech groups they’d all laugh with admiration at the ballsy bullshit bluffing tactics she used to bring about the breakthrough technology.

    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @PhysicistDave

    Anonymous[369] wrote to me:

    And if Theranos with all of its talent….

    What talent???

    I am a physicist turned engineer; my wife has had experience in biotech. We have both read Carreyrou’s Bad Blood. My wife actually considered applying for a job at Theranos early on — but then she looked into it enough to realize it was a scam.

    As I said earlier, Balwani was a coding monkey. Holmes was a dropout with no significant knowledge or experience in engineering.

    And if they had some hidden brilliant “talent” somewhere in the company, they hid it well.

    You’ve been scammed by the little lady felon, my friend.

    Anon also wrote:

    If not for a lot of bluffing and bullshit at the start we would’ve never heard of Apple, Microsoft, et al.

    Do you have any idea at all what you are talking about???

    I was in grad school at Stanford when Apple and Microsoft got going. I was a STEM guy who knew how to program (Fortran and Basic) and also knew basic digital logic design and semiconductor device physics. In short, I had a strong interest in high-tech, and I had the technical background to understand it.

    And I do not remember Microsoft and Apple blatantly lying to investors and customers.

    Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

    Over-optimistic about new products’ launch dates? Perhaps.

    But that was not Holmes problem: her problem was that she blatantly lied.

    Honest over-optimism is not a crime. Intentional fraud is.

  152. @Prof. Woland
    @Tony massey

    A big problem with financial fraud / crime is that it is a 'high trust' business and it makes it 10x harder to do business for the next guy. Clients don't want to invest and it forces the regulators to come up with a slough of laws that create red tape wasting everybody's time and energy. Holmes should not only pick up beer cans on the side of highway in an orange jump suit but also pay back every nickel she lost plus penalties. When everyone is whole again she can regain her freedom and property.

    Replies: @Tony massey, @PhysicistDave

    Prof. Woland wrote:

    Holmes should not only pick up beer cans on the side of highway in an orange jump suit but also pay back every nickel she lost plus penalties. When everyone is whole again she can regain her freedom and property.

    More important than jail time is some agreement that prevents her from ever sitting in the C-suite in any corporation for the rest of her life.

    She is going to try to do it again.

    • Agree: Tony massey
  153. @Jonathan Mason
    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like "wire fraud" and "crossing state lines", which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.

    All you can really say in the cases of Ghislaine Maxwell and Elizabeth Holmes is that a jury found them guilty of certain legal offenses, and that certain offenses have certain penalties attached to them.

    The question of whether anybody was really hurt or not is irrelevant. The important issue is that the majesty of the law be upheld and that the general public be given the message that crime doesn't pay.

    The teen prostitutes in the Maxwell case are all now millionaires, and Elizabeth Holmes's investors (marks) are not living on the street either, but that is all irrelevant.

    The only question is whether the law was broken, and whether it was enforced.

    However the law only becomes relevant when there are large amounts of money involved. During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida, and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element. And lots of people give people money every day to back various business plans and get scammed out of their money, and nothing happens because the scammers are indigent.

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Bernard, @Hibernian, @PhysicistDave

    Jonathan Mason wrote:

    During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida…

    I trust that you know that, unless you have a very, very convincing explanation for that, that statement may be of interest to law enforcement in Florida?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @PhysicistDave

    Among other things, Jonathan Mason claims he trained prison guards in Florida. Maybe he worked in juvenile court. Where he would meet teen prostitutes.

    , @Athenian Gentleman
    @PhysicistDave



    During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida,
     
    I trust that you know that, unless you have a very, very convincing explanation for that, that statement may be of interest to law enforcement in Florida?
     
    Or maybe not, at least if we are to believe the conclusion, that you elided, of JM's sentence:

    and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element.
     
    I believe Jonathan Mason is a physician. Regardless, assuming you were being serious, your moralistic tone would seem gratutious and jejune.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @PhysicistDave

    When I said during the course of my career, I meant during the course of my professional career when I had entirely legitimate access to detailed case records of offenders.

    I am sorry for any ambiguity in my wording.

    I do not believe that there is any breach of confidentiality in what I posted above that would be of interest to law enforcement.

  154. @Hibernian
    @Jonathan Mason


    The United States legal system is really bizarre, because so many criminal offenses come down to strange issues like “wire fraud” and “crossing state lines”, which do not seem to be a major part of the legal system of other countries.
     
    The limited powers of the Federal Government were intended as a bulwark against tyranny, but the Federal power to regulate interstate commerce has been magnified to create a central police power similar to that of France and other centralized nations. BTW the US is not the only nation in the world with a Federal system. Switzerland and Mexico come to mind. Not sure about Swtzerland, but in Mexico the States still have some power left, similar to the US.

    Replies: @Alden

    Switzerland the Cantons have a lot of power. Germany has Statts? Because we imposed an American states and national government on Germany after WW2.

    The American individual state system allows a lot of crime, both common stealing and then selling the stolen cars. And corporate crime incorporating in one state and committing crimes on one state making it difficult for the de frauded to sue and be compensated.

    Not good or bad. It is what it is. Think about state building codes Should the Deep South have the same roofing codes as the far northern states whose roofs must be sturdy enough to bear the weight of 5 months of 3 or 4 feet of snow?

    The problem in the United States is that nine minions of Satan on the Supreme Court can make or abolish any federal or state law or county or city ordinance or just about anything they wish.

    The old Anglo Saxon Common Law so beloved by idiots with Walter Scott disease. Worst legal system in the world.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Alden

    “ The problem in the United States is that nine minions of Satan on the Supreme Court can make or abolish any federal or state law or county or city ordinance or just about anything they wish.”

    The problem with the United States is that Lincoln blew up the original arrangement.

    , @Hibernian
    @Alden


    Germany has Statts? Because we imposed an American states and national government on Germany after WW2.
     
    Germany was historically divided into independent principalities up until 1870 or 71 when the King of Prussia united them and became the Emperor of Germany. (This is oversimplified, of course.)
    However, a fair amount of state autonomy remained. What happened post 1945 was reorganization and redrawing of lines.

    The entire history of the German States involves Protestant vs. Catholic wars, the Napoleonic wars which ended the nominal vassalage of these states to the Holy Roman Empire, consolidation of some states as a result of these and other events, Protestant Prussia taking over a lot of Catholic territory after the Napoleonic Wars, and everything but the kitchen sink.
  155. @PhysicistDave
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jonathan Mason wrote:


    During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida...
     
    I trust that you know that, unless you have a very, very convincing explanation for that, that statement may be of interest to law enforcement in Florida?

    Replies: @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman, @Jonathan Mason

    Among other things, Jonathan Mason claims he trained prison guards in Florida. Maybe he worked in juvenile court. Where he would meet teen prostitutes.

  156. @guest007
    @Almost Missouri

    It was a Miami Herald reporter who did the heavy lifting on Epstein

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/25/meet-julie-k-brown-the-woman-who-brought-down-jeffrey-epstein

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    I Agreed this, but Whitney Webb, who publishes here among other places, has done more comprehensive, detailed examination of this than anyone else I’ve seen. So much so, that I hope she is taking some personal security precautions lest she become the next suicide under peculiar circumstances.

  157. @Warner
    @Twinkie

    1984 is a pretty famous book.

    Replies: @ic1000, @William Badwhite, @Twinkie

    1984 is a pretty famous book.

    Yeah, I read that last line too hastily and assumed he meant the good old days of Reagan, not Orwell.

  158. @MLK
    The lessons I see are a bit different. What's notable is how long it took for her to be indicted and prosecuted. Enough time for records to disappear and be destroyed, burying the harm done to innocent Walgreen's customers. They even convinced you to let it go:

    as far as I know, nobody died due to Holmes’ blood test machine being so unreliable . . .

     

    That's pretty close to what the smart set tells themselves about the so-called vaccines at the moment.

    We can think of this grift as in some important respects a dry run for the sort of magical thinking for fabulous profit that kicked into high gear in 2021.

    There's a lot of talk lately about sinister Singularity. But for all the high tech updating, this was an old school Singularity in terms of melding political and permanent government grandees to a real moneymaker via government contracts.

    Not a single board member, including the non-elderly, displaced even a moment's hesitation experimenting on our combat forces. Has anyone even asked Mattis what he was thinking?

    Nor is it a surprise in the current context that the prosecution narrative was channelled into defrauding billionaire investors. They chalked it up the moment it hit rough sledding to a failed public/private grift. A mere rounding error and tax write-off.

    Say what you will about Elizabeth Theranos (as I call her), she dreamed up a brilliant idea to free all of us from the grip of those dastardly medical testing companies and their useless protocols. How is that any different than the Boeing/Obama administration efficiency drive in the form of the 737 Max?

    Don't forget how this whole thing collapsed. It wasn't a board member asking pesky questions. That corrupt gaggle showed their true colors by doubling down self-protectively the moment the wheels started coming off. Nor did the prominent snookered billionaires call for letting it all hang out. Nope,
    it was a whistleblower -- a real one, not what passes for them these days since they fixed that problem too, and a WSJ reporter who was a dog with a bone like reporters used to be.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    MLK wrote:

    Nope, it was a whistleblower — a real one, not what passes for them these days since they fixed that problem too, and a WSJ reporter who was a dog with a bone like reporters used to be.

    There were two very young whistleblowers in particular — Tyler Shultz and Erika Cheung.

    As I’ve said, my wife is friends with Erika, and I myself have met and talked with her — she is a self-possessed but sincere and rather ingenuous young woman.

    Erika was a fresh grad just out of Cal. She and Tyler went through Hell because they did the right thing.

    They deserve a lot of credit for having the guts to speak up. If only most members of our ruling elite had similar courage.

    • Replies: @MLK
    @PhysicistDave

    Thanks for both those links.

    Make no mistake, behind the curtain Tyler Shultz is still viewed as a disruptive chump. Ditto with Erika Cheung.

    Your first link alludes to a subject matter of recurring interest for me. We can call it supervision of the prominent oldsters.

    George Shultz was way too old for his handlers to allow him to risk his reputation in this way.

    Biden, now 79, was cognitively gone before being illegitimately installed. So why all the magical thinking about now 91 year old George Soros, for example? It seems to be the only thing his cultists and detractors agree on as if enough money can buy a younger mind.


    "In one of my last conversations with him he told me a story about how he got Elizabeth invited during fleet week in San Francisco to go give a speech to United States Navy sailors. He said with tears in her eyes, she told the room about how she was so honored and humbled that her life's work would be saving the lives of United States servicemen and women," Tyler recalled.

    "He said he could not believe that anybody could get in front of these men and women who are willing to put their lives in front of our country and lie directly to their face as convincingly as she lied."
     
    George Shultz "could not believe . . ." Despite his well-choreographed public appearances, Kissinger, too, was too old.

    But what of all the other board members, younger and compos mentis all? They've gotten a complete pass because we live in a time when no one wants to make juiced-in mediocrities on the make feel bad about themselves.

    The promise of a machine providing on-site, near instantaneous testing results from a few drops of blood still sounds terrific. Indeed, all the brain-power encountering her didn't for a moment doubt that they deserved to deliver such innovation to humanity.

    This is why I refuse to join everyone else in blaming it all on that terrible, awful young lady with a fake deep voice in the turtleneck. I long ago forswore to never feel sorry for rich people losing money.

    The Theranos crash and burn instead reveals the dangerous rot at the top of our governing class. It basically played out as an episode of Scooby Doo -- They would have gotten away with killing a whole bunch of our combat soldiers if it wasn't for a couple of whistleblowing kids and one intrepid reporter.
  159. @Alden
    @Jack D

    Federal case so she will probably go to the federal prison in Pleasanton. It’s only about 100 or less miles from San Francisco where she and her husband live. It’s not bad as prisons go. I think they have private rooms. Nice area near the coast so it never gets hot in summer.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Alden

    “… Nice area near the coast so it never gets hot in summer.”

    Pleasanton is in an inward valley and it definitely can get hot in the summer. The record high is 115. According to wikipedia:

    “Pleasanton features a Mediterranean climate, featuring hot, dry summers ..”

    • Replies: @Alden
    @James B. Shearer

    It’s in Alameda county Bay Area. I’ve been in Pleasanton aka Dublin and surrounding area in the summer and it’s very breezy and cool. For a prison it’s not bad. Alameda County is on the bay and near the ocean. Did you look up city of Pleasanton or Pleasanton prison? Do you know the difference? Wikipedia is no substitute for personal experience and information.

    The MEN OF UNZ the MEN OF UNZ sooooo dependent on Wikipedia. Sooooo eager to drive women commenters off the site with constant arguing and bitching. Citing Wikipedia is just pathetic.

    , @Alden
    @James B. Shearer

    Record high of 115 sometime in the last 140 years. Wikipedia LOL. I never felt hot in south west alameda county in the summer. It’s flat not hilly is that considered a valley or a plain. Gets wind blowing east from the Bay Pleasanton 28 miles from Oakland. Dublin 23 miles from Oakland how hit can the area get? Bitch bitch bitch and depend on Wikipedia to back you up. You and some MEN OF UNZ should re name yourselves Karen.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

  160. @Jack D
    @stillCARealist

    Senators tend to be pretty smart guys (with egoes to match) but the quality of Congressmen varies greatly.

    In big cities they often used to be guys who had come up thru the unions (or like Mayor Adams in NYC, thru the police force). These guys were not necessarily book smart but they were sometimes street smart. Other times they were just dummies who did whatever their union bosses told them (and were corrupt to boot).

    Increasingly in big cities they are black with all that implies in terms of intelligence and corruptability (although they are usually from Talented Tenth/more European blood sector of blacks).

    In more rural areas they are often local pols who have risen to the level of their incompetence.

    Some of them (a few) are Future Senators and are quite smart (e.g. Schumer who spent 20 years in Congress before becoming a Senator).

    Others (especially Democrats) can be "intellectuals" who follow Orwell's maxim that there are some ideas that are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them. Like the Congresslady (my Congresslady although an improvement on the last one who was a black guy from Philly who ended up in prison) who just got carjacked and thought that having more gun (meaning rifle) control laws would have prevented this.

    Being intelligent is not really a pre-requisite for Congress so sometimes they are and sometimes they ain't.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Senators tend to be pretty smart guys (with egoes to match)

    Have you ever met Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA)?

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Twinkie

    “And I do not remember Microsoft and Apple blatantly lying to investors and customers.”

    You are correct. Microsoft’s secret weapon was Gate’s parents who had deep business connections, plus Gates senior’s recognition, as an high end business lawyer that antitrust law enforcement was moribund under Reagan. His parent’s social and business savvy and contacts facilitated the DOS purchase, set up the IBM deal, recognized that Windows could be stolen from Apple (because Apple stole it from Xerox), recognized that the “must place on all computers” OEM deals would not be prosecuted by DOJ and conceived stock options to limit start up operating costs.

    Had DOJ been policing antitrust laws and Xerox enforcing their patents it is questionable whether Microsoft could have achieved market dominance.

    Replies: @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman

  161. @William Badwhite
    @Warner


    1984 is a pretty famous book.
     
    I'm pretty sure he meant the year, not the book.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    William Badwhite wrote of me:

    I’m pretty sure [Dave] meant the year [1984], not the book.

    No, I did mean the book (probably should have said “Orwell’s 1984“), but it does not really matter.

    What does matter is that we are ruled by morons.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @PhysicistDave


    No, I did mean the book (probably should have said “Orwell’s 1984“), but it does not really matter.
     
    I was replying to Warner, who was replying to Twinkie, who was referring to the year not the book. I should have been more clear with the use of pronouns.

    What does matter is that we are ruled by morons.
     
    Very much agreed, though I would "mendacious" and "destructive".

    The actions of the current "administration" - take the border disaster for example - make more sense if you consider the possibility that they want what is happening to happen.
  162. @Anonymous
    @ic1000


    ic1000 says:
    January 4, 2022 at 12:53 pm GMT • 9.5 hours ago ↑
    @Warner
    > 1984 is a pretty famous book

    Agree. A small miss from a reliably excellent commenter.
     
    Disagree. It's a huge miss, a disqualifying miss.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

    “… disqualifying ..”

    Everyone has the occasional lapse.

  163. @Alden
    @PhysicistDave

    Holmes might have worked with some kind of engineer, a medical person and a machinist?? the person someone who actually made the prototype device.

    Thanks for all your informative comments especially about Ms Cheung

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Alden asked me:

    Holmes might have worked with some kind of engineer, a medical person and a machinist?? the person someone who actually made the prototype device.

    Oh, yeah — Holmes had various engineers and STEM people working for her.

    Two problems:

    First, any competent engineer should have gone to Holmes early on and told her that what she wanted to do was so difficult as probably to be impossible given the current state of technology.

    Second, Holmes’ medical directors (my wife tells me Holmes ran through at least three sequentially) had a legal obligation to refuse to sign off on a lot of stuff that they did sign off on at the insistence of Holmes, Balwani, et al. Now, of course, had they refused, Holmes would have just fired them and found someone who was more pliable, but there are times when you have to be willing to be fired.

    My wife and I have both seen this again and again and again in our careers: a large fraction of people in managerial and professional positions in the USA today — a majority, I think — are so afraid of losing their cushy careers that they are willing to break the law, in serious ways, to keep the dough, the juicy salaries and nice benefits, rolling in.

    Erika and Tyler were young enough and idealistic enough to do the right thing. My wife and I have seen very, very few professionals and managers who have similar courage. The people we have interacted with personally who proved to be utterly lacking in courage and integrity have included large numbers of physicians, academic scientists, engineering managers, university administrators, and (of course!) lawyers.

    When the dominant social class in a society is deeply corrupt, can (or should) that society survive?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @PhysicistDave

    Thanks for the information. Most medical devices are created by a team. Although a prick device wouldn’t be complicated to devise. I guess they did create a capillary prick device ????? The problem would be figuring out how to do a blood test from a drop of capillary blood. Which proved impossible.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

  164. @Alden
    @Jack D

    Federal case so she will probably go to the federal prison in Pleasanton. It’s only about 100 or less miles from San Francisco where she and her husband live. It’s not bad as prisons go. I think they have private rooms. Nice area near the coast so it never gets hot in summer.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Alden

    Abolish public education

    Pleasanton prison in N California, the town of Dublin is the federal prison for women who are federal prisoners in California. That’s where she will be sent. If she’s sentenced to prison.

    So why disagree with the fact that Pleasanton in Dublin is the California federal prison for women.?

  165. @Twinkie
    @PhysicistDave


    When I was at Stanford, I was friends with some guys who had been Congressional interns: they said the stupidity of the “members” was quite impressive.
     
    I worked on the Hill for a bit.

    Let me put it this way: watch VEEP on HBO. It is the most accurate portrayal of the lives of pols and pol-wannabes in D.C. ever made. Pure, naked greed for power and influence combined with utter, utter incompetence.

    D.C. is literally a city of whores. And I don't mean that figuratively. There are literally whores - women who sell their bodies for actual cash (and those are the honest kind) as well as those who do so for jobs and, more saliently, proximity to power. If you have even a little bit of political influence and show up at Rayburn, you will be mobbed by a throng of young women freshly out of college working for various members who want to take advantage of you and use you as a ladder - even if you were married.

    Now, you might ask, what about all those men with Ivy League degrees and top shelf credentials? Oh, they are there. It's just that when there is power and influence at stake, those men lose about 20 points of their IQ and become delusional fools - just as most such men would be at a gambling table in Las Vegas. Add the availability of easy girls, they are just ripe for the fall, which, of course, occurs frequently. (There is also an inordinate amount of obsequious groveling to those with actual power in an effort to obtain influence that is pathetic and degrading to watch.)

    After a while, I told my wife I had to get off the Hill and do something real. I told her that every day I worked in that den of thieves and whores, my soul was dying bit by bit.

    Yes, the current system is not 1984. It’s Idiocracy.
     
    I wasn't there in 1984, but from all the lore I was privy to, I can tell you it was no better then. If anything, it was probably worse. There was more opaqueness in the past and shielded all kinds of outlandish shenanigans from the public scrutiny (I once had a boss who was a senior figure at the Reagan White House and he told me some crazy stories).

    Replies: @Warner, @Curle

    Yes, the women definitely chase men on Capital Hill but part of that is the high female to male ratio. When I moved to DC in the ‘80s I instantly became an hotter commodity than I had been back home. When I returned to my former hometown my comparative hot commodity status disappeared overnight. I should have stayed.

  166. @PhysicistDave
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jonathan Mason wrote:


    During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida...
     
    I trust that you know that, unless you have a very, very convincing explanation for that, that statement may be of interest to law enforcement in Florida?

    Replies: @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman, @Jonathan Mason

    During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida,

    I trust that you know that, unless you have a very, very convincing explanation for that, that statement may be of interest to law enforcement in Florida?

    Or maybe not, at least if we are to believe the conclusion, that you elided, of JM’s sentence:

    and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element.

    I believe Jonathan Mason is a physician. Regardless, assuming you were being serious, your moralistic tone would seem gratutious and jejune.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Athenian Gentleman

    Athenian Gentleman wrote to me:


    Regardless, assuming you were being serious, your moralistic tone would seem gratutious and jejune.
     
    Think so?

    JM may have had some good, legitimate professional reason for knowing lots of prostitutes, as I did suggest.

    But, I think it is fair to say that most people who know lots of underage prostitutes are, let us say, problem citizens.

    You disagree? Do you think that if JM knew lots of teenage prostitutes for some reason other than being, say, a cop or social worker, that would not be a problem?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  167. @PhysicistDave
    @Alden

    Alden asked me:


    Holmes might have worked with some kind of engineer, a medical person and a machinist?? the person someone who actually made the prototype device.
     
    Oh, yeah -- Holmes had various engineers and STEM people working for her.

    Two problems:

    First, any competent engineer should have gone to Holmes early on and told her that what she wanted to do was so difficult as probably to be impossible given the current state of technology.

    Second, Holmes' medical directors (my wife tells me Holmes ran through at least three sequentially) had a legal obligation to refuse to sign off on a lot of stuff that they did sign off on at the insistence of Holmes, Balwani, et al. Now, of course, had they refused, Holmes would have just fired them and found someone who was more pliable, but there are times when you have to be willing to be fired.

    My wife and I have both seen this again and again and again in our careers: a large fraction of people in managerial and professional positions in the USA today -- a majority, I think -- are so afraid of losing their cushy careers that they are willing to break the law, in serious ways, to keep the dough, the juicy salaries and nice benefits, rolling in.

    Erika and Tyler were young enough and idealistic enough to do the right thing. My wife and I have seen very, very few professionals and managers who have similar courage. The people we have interacted with personally who proved to be utterly lacking in courage and integrity have included large numbers of physicians, academic scientists, engineering managers, university administrators, and (of course!) lawyers.

    When the dominant social class in a society is deeply corrupt, can (or should) that society survive?

    Replies: @Alden

    Thanks for the information. Most medical devices are created by a team. Although a prick device wouldn’t be complicated to devise. I guess they did create a capillary prick device ????? The problem would be figuring out how to do a blood test from a drop of capillary blood. Which proved impossible.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Alden

    Alden wrote to me:


    The problem would be figuring out how to do a blood test from a drop of capillary blood. Which proved impossible.
     
    Well, the problem was doing dozens or even hundreds of tests from one drop of blood. First, you had to route sub-droplets all over the place for the separate tests -- not that easy. And, even worse, you had to do a whole bunch of tests in a small machine on an amount of blood that was really not sufficient

    SimpleSng went into more detail on some of the problems above.

    Just doing one test on a drop of blood is actually doable: a friend of my wife's from grad school, Steve Zweig, developed a one-drop test for "anticoagulants": as this infomercial explains. Quoting their text blurb:

    The Mission PT Coagulation Monitoring System demo video guides the user through the operation procedure for accurate testing and proper training. With the Mission PT Coagulation Monitoring System, it is easy to achieve high quality and reliable results for Prothrombin Time (PT) and International Normalized Ratio (INR) in as little as 2 minutes. Using one single drop or capillary blood or 15 µL of venous whole blood, the user can obtain results.
     
    Holmes probably had this sort of device in mind as the basis for her great leap forward.

    But Holmes' problem was that she convinced herself (and, by lying, a bunch of investors) that she could do hundreds of tests on one single drop of blood.

    For people familiar with current technology, that is pretty clearly impossible, as turned out to be the case.

    Fifty years from now? Who can say?

    (Thanks to my wife for the details here.)

    Replies: @Tony massey, @Alden

  168. @James B. Shearer
    @Alden

    "... Nice area near the coast so it never gets hot in summer."

    Pleasanton is in an inward valley and it definitely can get hot in the summer. The record high is 115. According to wikipedia:

    "Pleasanton features a Mediterranean climate, featuring hot, dry summers .."

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden

    It’s in Alameda county Bay Area. I’ve been in Pleasanton aka Dublin and surrounding area in the summer and it’s very breezy and cool. For a prison it’s not bad. Alameda County is on the bay and near the ocean. Did you look up city of Pleasanton or Pleasanton prison? Do you know the difference? Wikipedia is no substitute for personal experience and information.

    The MEN OF UNZ the MEN OF UNZ sooooo dependent on Wikipedia. Sooooo eager to drive women commenters off the site with constant arguing and bitching. Citing Wikipedia is just pathetic.

  169. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    Senators tend to be pretty smart guys (with egoes to match)
     
    Have you ever met Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA)?

    Replies: @Curle

    “And I do not remember Microsoft and Apple blatantly lying to investors and customers.”

    You are correct. Microsoft’s secret weapon was Gate’s parents who had deep business connections, plus Gates senior’s recognition, as an high end business lawyer that antitrust law enforcement was moribund under Reagan. His parent’s social and business savvy and contacts facilitated the DOS purchase, set up the IBM deal, recognized that Windows could be stolen from Apple (because Apple stole it from Xerox), recognized that the “must place on all computers” OEM deals would not be prosecuted by DOJ and conceived stock options to limit start up operating costs.

    Had DOJ been policing antitrust laws and Xerox enforcing their patents it is questionable whether Microsoft could have achieved market dominance.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Curle

    You’re right about the Gates family money and positions Brother in law went to work for Microsoft in Seattle in the first years early mid 1980s. A major connection was Gates’ mother who was in the board of United Way with a western Vice President of IBM. The Gateses made a deal with him to throw a lot of work Bill’s Way
    Another thing that with peace in Vietnam Boeing laid off thousands. They didn’t have any money so all the providers of goods and services to Boeing people had problems TPTB business and government got together and provided massive tax breaks and subsidizes to any businesses that would move to Kings County Wa. Plus Carter administration was throwing money at cities for development. And Seattle got its share.

    So Bill came home from Texas. That’s why Bezos and wife moved there also Starbucks. 40 years later those 3 and many other companies are still getting the tax breaks and other subsidies from Kings County And City of Seattle. Evil liberals changed name of King County from a US Vice President to the unspeakable obscenity that was MLK.

    Head hunter found brother in law. Called him about “ a little company out in Seattle nobody’s ever heard of” They went to Seattle. 40 years later Microsoft mostly hires Asians and Indians.

    Same thing happened in Silicon Valley. White men built the industry. And then other White men aka racist capitalist pigs dumped them for non White diversity immigrants

    Replies: @clyde

    , @Athenian Gentleman
    @Curle

    Looks like you accidentally replied to the wrong comment. The comment containing the sentence you quoted is from Physicist Dave.

  170. @Trelane
    For the younger readers, beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Kronos, @kaganovitch, @Athenian Gentleman

    beware the young woman who speaks in a fake deep baritone voice and who seemingly almost never blinks.


    Dragnet #186, The Big Small

  171. @Alden
    @Hibernian

    Switzerland the Cantons have a lot of power. Germany has Statts? Because we imposed an American states and national government on Germany after WW2.

    The American individual state system allows a lot of crime, both common stealing and then selling the stolen cars. And corporate crime incorporating in one state and committing crimes on one state making it difficult for the de frauded to sue and be compensated.

    Not good or bad. It is what it is. Think about state building codes Should the Deep South have the same roofing codes as the far northern states whose roofs must be sturdy enough to bear the weight of 5 months of 3 or 4 feet of snow?

    The problem in the United States is that nine minions of Satan on the Supreme Court can make or abolish any federal or state law or county or city ordinance or just about anything they wish.

    The old Anglo Saxon Common Law so beloved by idiots with Walter Scott disease. Worst legal system in the world.

    Replies: @Curle, @Hibernian

    “ The problem in the United States is that nine minions of Satan on the Supreme Court can make or abolish any federal or state law or county or city ordinance or just about anything they wish.”

    The problem with the United States is that Lincoln blew up the original arrangement.

  172. Thank you, Lizzie, for making fools of “the elites” who deserve prison way more than you!

  173. @stillCARealist
    @J.Ross

    what does "perfethinnel" mean? google doesn't recognize it, but that could be their problem, not yours.

    I like new words. Come up with a cool definition and coin it.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I am desolated to report that for me to define “perfethinnel” to you will require an exchange of funds.

  174. @James B. Shearer
    @Alden

    "... Nice area near the coast so it never gets hot in summer."

    Pleasanton is in an inward valley and it definitely can get hot in the summer. The record high is 115. According to wikipedia:

    "Pleasanton features a Mediterranean climate, featuring hot, dry summers .."

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden

    Record high of 115 sometime in the last 140 years. Wikipedia LOL. I never felt hot in south west alameda county in the summer. It’s flat not hilly is that considered a valley or a plain. Gets wind blowing east from the Bay Pleasanton 28 miles from Oakland. Dublin 23 miles from Oakland how hit can the area get? Bitch bitch bitch and depend on Wikipedia to back you up. You and some MEN OF UNZ should re name yourselves Karen.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Alden

    "... depend on Wikipedia .."

    Actually I grew up in Livermore California which is just a few miles to the east of Pleasanton and know from personal experience that it can get unpleasantly hot in the summer. To be fair it is generally a dry heat and cools off at night. Yearly record temperatures for Livermore can be found here .

  175. @Curle
    @Twinkie

    “And I do not remember Microsoft and Apple blatantly lying to investors and customers.”

    You are correct. Microsoft’s secret weapon was Gate’s parents who had deep business connections, plus Gates senior’s recognition, as an high end business lawyer that antitrust law enforcement was moribund under Reagan. His parent’s social and business savvy and contacts facilitated the DOS purchase, set up the IBM deal, recognized that Windows could be stolen from Apple (because Apple stole it from Xerox), recognized that the “must place on all computers” OEM deals would not be prosecuted by DOJ and conceived stock options to limit start up operating costs.

    Had DOJ been policing antitrust laws and Xerox enforcing their patents it is questionable whether Microsoft could have achieved market dominance.

    Replies: @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman

    You’re right about the Gates family money and positions Brother in law went to work for Microsoft in Seattle in the first years early mid 1980s. A major connection was Gates’ mother who was in the board of United Way with a western Vice President of IBM. The Gateses made a deal with him to throw a lot of work Bill’s Way
    Another thing that with peace in Vietnam Boeing laid off thousands. They didn’t have any money so all the providers of goods and services to Boeing people had problems TPTB business and government got together and provided massive tax breaks and subsidizes to any businesses that would move to Kings County Wa. Plus Carter administration was throwing money at cities for development. And Seattle got its share.

    So Bill came home from Texas. That’s why Bezos and wife moved there also Starbucks. 40 years later those 3 and many other companies are still getting the tax breaks and other subsidies from Kings County And City of Seattle. Evil liberals changed name of King County from a US Vice President to the unspeakable obscenity that was MLK.

    Head hunter found brother in law. Called him about “ a little company out in Seattle nobody’s ever heard of” They went to Seattle. 40 years later Microsoft mostly hires Asians and Indians.

    Same thing happened in Silicon Valley. White men built the industry. And then other White men aka racist capitalist pigs dumped them for non White diversity immigrants

    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @clyde
    @Alden

    All true. White elites made it here due to the inherited social, religious and economic infrastructure that was built by whites over generations. By men who built America and fought in our wars. Now the Elites piss on this inheritance by hiring foreigners and promoting mass immigration, legal and illegal. They are almost sure to build fences around their various homes. Zuck has a stone wall around his mass acreage Hawaii place.

    I see Bezos has retired to pursue his dreams of colonizing Mars. Perhaps along with his current girlfriend?
    ____________________


    MARK ZUCKERBERG BUILDS MASSIVE WALL AROUND HIS $100MILLION PROPERTY BUT HIS NEIGHBOURS DON’T LIKE IT
    JUNE 29, 2016 HASSAN KOCH LEAVE A COMMENT
    image

    The Facebook billionaire founder has built a 6′ stone wall around his $100 million Kauai property that has blocked out the Pacific Ocean to neighbors and according to TMZ, many of them are livid.
    “The Facebook founder bought the 750-acre estate in 2014 and now wants to shore it up, but a 5’8” neighbor for one is furious, because now she can’t see water.
    Some neighbors claim they’ve tried reaching out to Zuckerberg, to no avail. TMZ contacted the zoning department in the area and were told no one has lodged a formal complaint and there is no investigation.

    TMZ contacted someone from the Planning Dept. and turns out Zuck has every right to build a 6′ wall if he wants … and he wants.
     

    Replies: @Prof. Woland, @JMcG

  176. @Curle
    @Twinkie

    “And I do not remember Microsoft and Apple blatantly lying to investors and customers.”

    You are correct. Microsoft’s secret weapon was Gate’s parents who had deep business connections, plus Gates senior’s recognition, as an high end business lawyer that antitrust law enforcement was moribund under Reagan. His parent’s social and business savvy and contacts facilitated the DOS purchase, set up the IBM deal, recognized that Windows could be stolen from Apple (because Apple stole it from Xerox), recognized that the “must place on all computers” OEM deals would not be prosecuted by DOJ and conceived stock options to limit start up operating costs.

    Had DOJ been policing antitrust laws and Xerox enforcing their patents it is questionable whether Microsoft could have achieved market dominance.

    Replies: @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman

    Looks like you accidentally replied to the wrong comment. The comment containing the sentence you quoted is from Physicist Dave.

  177. @Athenian Gentleman
    @PhysicistDave



    During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida,
     
    I trust that you know that, unless you have a very, very convincing explanation for that, that statement may be of interest to law enforcement in Florida?
     
    Or maybe not, at least if we are to believe the conclusion, that you elided, of JM's sentence:

    and none of them had wealthy clients, so there was no interest in the prostitution element.
     
    I believe Jonathan Mason is a physician. Regardless, assuming you were being serious, your moralistic tone would seem gratutious and jejune.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Athenian Gentleman wrote to me:

    Regardless, assuming you were being serious, your moralistic tone would seem gratutious and jejune.

    Think so?

    JM may have had some good, legitimate professional reason for knowing lots of prostitutes, as I did suggest.

    But, I think it is fair to say that most people who know lots of underage prostitutes are, let us say, problem citizens.

    You disagree? Do you think that if JM knew lots of teenage prostitutes for some reason other than being, say, a cop or social worker, that would not be a problem?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @PhysicistDave


    Do you think that if JM knew lots of teenage prostitutes for some reason other than being, say, a cop or social worker, that would not be a problem?
     
    Come on Phys, do you think that all physicists bear collective responsibility for great crimes like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Imagine if the Nuremberg trials had been conducted by the Axis powers.

    Obviously you know absolutely nothing about law enforcement, juvenile delinquency, the court and custodial system, drug addiction treatment, psychiatry, psychology, education, and all the systems full of professionals that exist to help these errant young maidens to be restored to the path of righteousness.

    You just know what you have seen in the movies and on Fox News.

    OK, and I know nothing about physics except that it has something to do with the worst mass murders in history.

    While a lot of you guys are very quick to (rightly) condemn the Rotherham mess in another country, but when it comes to the issue of teen prostitutes in Florida, you are quick to raise a telescope to your blind eye and kill the messenger for good measure.

    The recent Ghislaine Maxwell trial sent out a loud message that there is a Rotherham in Florida too, and actually in real life there are several Rotherhams in Florida, because all of these teen prostitutes and drug addicts have pimps, boyfriends, and managers who manage their engagement diaries, marketing, and provide drugs and transportation.

    But as Lord Horation Nelson said, when he raised the telescope to his blind eye, "I see no ships."

    When I bought my home in a small town in Florida, the realtor told me that there was absolutely ZERO crime in the county, and yet a few weeks later a woman was found dead by the railroad tracks with her head bashed in. Unfortunately this was after the closing, and I had no opportunity to negotiate an additional discount.

    But that is how it is in the US.

    https://www.macmillandictionary.com/external/slideshow/thumb/emoji_evil_thumb.jpg

    Replies: @Sean

  178. @Alden
    @Sean

    Mar a Lago employment records show she began working there in April 1998 when she was 15 years old. Date of birth August 9 1983. Juan Alessi house manager made depositions in several of her cases. In each Alessi stated that he saw Guiffre enter through the kitchen door and go up the stairs to Epstein’s massage room in May June and July of 1998 when she was 15 years old. August 9 1998 she turned 16. Still underage in Florida Age of Consent Florida 18

    Source directly copied from Alessi’s depositions in Brad Edwards book about the victims , Relentless Pursuit. Or as the MEN OF UNZ prefer to call the girls nasty greedy sluts. Who dared be compensated from the Federal Victims of Crime Fund because the FBI and US attorneys did not follow proper procedures as REQUIRED by the Federal Victims Of Crimes act.

    All victims of federal crimes whose rights under the Federal Victims of Crimes Act have been violated by the federal prosecutors FBI or any other federal agency are entitled to compensation. Not just sex trafficking but victims of any and all federal crimes in which the investigators and prosecutors violate the rights of the victims under the Federal Victims of Crimes Act.

    So buy or read Relentless Pursuit by Brad Edwards and find the testimony that Guiffre was 15 in May June and July 1998 when she was seen going into Epstein’s massage room. Many times.

    Some of the MEN OF UNZ can never stop defending Maxwell Epstein and defending prostitution of minors. And sex with minors. You are so ignorant you don’t realize pimping and prostitution are illegal.

    Replies: @Sean

    Calumny is a criminal offence under the Italian Penal Code, which states:

    Anyone who with a denunciation, complaint, demand or request, even anonymously or under a false name, directs a judicial authority or other authority that has an obligation to report, to blame someone for a crime who he knows is innocent, that is he fabricates evidence against someone, shall be punished with imprisonment from two to six years. The penalty shall be increased if the accused blames someone of a crime for which the law prescribes a penalty of imprisonment exceeding a maximum of ten years, or another more serious penalty. The imprisonment shall be from four to twelve years if the act results in a prison sentence exceeding five years, from six to twenty years if the act results in a life sentence.

    When she was 14 years old Giuffre accused a 17 year old boy and an 18 year old ‘man’ of holding her prisoner and raping her. Her stories about powerful men she slept with as Epstein’s “sex slave” are unlikely to be true in my opinion, and the opinion of prosecutors apparently.

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
  179. @Alden
    @PhysicistDave

    Thanks for the information. Most medical devices are created by a team. Although a prick device wouldn’t be complicated to devise. I guess they did create a capillary prick device ????? The problem would be figuring out how to do a blood test from a drop of capillary blood. Which proved impossible.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Alden wrote to me:

    The problem would be figuring out how to do a blood test from a drop of capillary blood. Which proved impossible.

    Well, the problem was doing dozens or even hundreds of tests from one drop of blood. First, you had to route sub-droplets all over the place for the separate tests — not that easy. And, even worse, you had to do a whole bunch of tests in a small machine on an amount of blood that was really not sufficient

    SimpleSng went into more detail on some of the problems above.

    Just doing one test on a drop of blood is actually doable: a friend of my wife’s from grad school, Steve Zweig, developed a one-drop test for “anticoagulants”: as this infomercial explains. Quoting their text blurb:

    The Mission PT Coagulation Monitoring System demo video guides the user through the operation procedure for accurate testing and proper training. With the Mission PT Coagulation Monitoring System, it is easy to achieve high quality and reliable results for Prothrombin Time (PT) and International Normalized Ratio (INR) in as little as 2 minutes. Using one single drop or capillary blood or 15 µL of venous whole blood, the user can obtain results.

    Holmes probably had this sort of device in mind as the basis for her great leap forward.

    But Holmes’ problem was that she convinced herself (and, by lying, a bunch of investors) that she could do hundreds of tests on one single drop of blood.

    For people familiar with current technology, that is pretty clearly impossible, as turned out to be the case.

    Fifty years from now? Who can say?

    (Thanks to my wife for the details here.)

    • Replies: @Tony massey
    @PhysicistDave

    Sir, i do not ever wish to give offense to a man i know is my superior but...
    Holmes probably had this sort of device in mind as the basis for her great leap forward

    I do recall reading somewhere and it's been years a story related by a classmate of hers in some very advanced sounding name involving chemistry that didn't really involve much chemistry(at least to anyone other than a layman such as yours truly)and that's where Liz got the 💡.
    As the story went she spoke openly in a class discussion on at least one occasion about the 💡 and the world class nervous professor instructing the class(some world Beater supposedly)gave Liz a well deserved complement for such a fantasic 💡 and then quickly explained that it was most likely impossible due to a number of technical achievements that would have to be uniquely solved.
    She dropped out soon after.

    There's a song that comes to mind and methinks it explains well the (non) mystery that is still Liz. You're soooooo correct in your prediction of her trying to do it again and i for one wish her ☝ speed in her next great idea. She'll have a captive audience and prolly a fair chunk of time to stir. No telling what she comes up with.
    I hope she dyes her hair since I've always been partial to brunettes.
    You should check the song out. It's about those similar to Liz. Only one Liz tho.
    https://youtu.be/jLR3J_4xBRw

    The spaghetti incident was obviously a mistake and that's what i can chalk this incident of Liz as...just a mistake.
    Sorry ya know

    , @Alden
    @PhysicistDave

    Thank you and your wife for the details.

  180. @PhysicistDave
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jonathan Mason wrote:


    During the course of my career, I got to know several dozen teenage prostitutes in Florida...
     
    I trust that you know that, unless you have a very, very convincing explanation for that, that statement may be of interest to law enforcement in Florida?

    Replies: @Alden, @Athenian Gentleman, @Jonathan Mason

    When I said during the course of my career, I meant during the course of my professional career when I had entirely legitimate access to detailed case records of offenders.

    I am sorry for any ambiguity in my wording.

    I do not believe that there is any breach of confidentiality in what I posted above that would be of interest to law enforcement.

  181. Hey entrepreneurs…..lie your ass off like Holmes and get away with a slap on the wrist…..welcome to business capital formation in the USA.

  182. @PhysicistDave
    @MLK

    MLK wrote:


    Nope, it was a whistleblower — a real one, not what passes for them these days since they fixed that problem too, and a WSJ reporter who was a dog with a bone like reporters used to be.
     
    There were two very young whistleblowers in particular -- Tyler Shultz and Erika Cheung.

    As I've said, my wife is friends with Erika, and I myself have met and talked with her -- she is a self-possessed but sincere and rather ingenuous young woman.

    Erika was a fresh grad just out of Cal. She and Tyler went through Hell because they did the right thing.

    They deserve a lot of credit for having the guts to speak up. If only most members of our ruling elite had similar courage.

    Replies: @MLK

    Thanks for both those links.

    Make no mistake, behind the curtain Tyler Shultz is still viewed as a disruptive chump. Ditto with Erika Cheung.

    Your first link alludes to a subject matter of recurring interest for me. We can call it supervision of the prominent oldsters.

    George Shultz was way too old for his handlers to allow him to risk his reputation in this way.

    Biden, now 79, was cognitively gone before being illegitimately installed. So why all the magical thinking about now 91 year old George Soros, for example? It seems to be the only thing his cultists and detractors agree on as if enough money can buy a younger mind.

    “In one of my last conversations with him he told me a story about how he got Elizabeth invited during fleet week in San Francisco to go give a speech to United States Navy sailors. He said with tears in her eyes, she told the room about how she was so honored and humbled that her life’s work would be saving the lives of United States servicemen and women,” Tyler recalled.

    “He said he could not believe that anybody could get in front of these men and women who are willing to put their lives in front of our country and lie directly to their face as convincingly as she lied.”

    George Shultz “could not believe . . .” Despite his well-choreographed public appearances, Kissinger, too, was too old.

    But what of all the other board members, younger and compos mentis all? They’ve gotten a complete pass because we live in a time when no one wants to make juiced-in mediocrities on the make feel bad about themselves.

    The promise of a machine providing on-site, near instantaneous testing results from a few drops of blood still sounds terrific. Indeed, all the brain-power encountering her didn’t for a moment doubt that they deserved to deliver such innovation to humanity.

    This is why I refuse to join everyone else in blaming it all on that terrible, awful young lady with a fake deep voice in the turtleneck. I long ago forswore to never feel sorry for rich people losing money.

    The Theranos crash and burn instead reveals the dangerous rot at the top of our governing class. It basically played out as an episode of Scooby Doo — They would have gotten away with killing a whole bunch of our combat soldiers if it wasn’t for a couple of whistleblowing kids and one intrepid reporter.

  183. @PhysicistDave
    @William Badwhite

    William Badwhite wrote of me:


    I’m pretty sure [Dave] meant the year [1984], not the book.
     
    No, I did mean the book (probably should have said "Orwell's 1984"), but it does not really matter.

    What does matter is that we are ruled by morons.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    No, I did mean the book (probably should have said “Orwell’s 1984“), but it does not really matter.

    I was replying to Warner, who was replying to Twinkie, who was referring to the year not the book. I should have been more clear with the use of pronouns.

    What does matter is that we are ruled by morons.

    Very much agreed, though I would “mendacious” and “destructive”.

    The actions of the current “administration” – take the border disaster for example – make more sense if you consider the possibility that they want what is happening to happen.

  184. @PhysicistDave
    @Alden

    Alden wrote to me:


    The problem would be figuring out how to do a blood test from a drop of capillary blood. Which proved impossible.
     
    Well, the problem was doing dozens or even hundreds of tests from one drop of blood. First, you had to route sub-droplets all over the place for the separate tests -- not that easy. And, even worse, you had to do a whole bunch of tests in a small machine on an amount of blood that was really not sufficient

    SimpleSng went into more detail on some of the problems above.

    Just doing one test on a drop of blood is actually doable: a friend of my wife's from grad school, Steve Zweig, developed a one-drop test for "anticoagulants": as this infomercial explains. Quoting their text blurb:

    The Mission PT Coagulation Monitoring System demo video guides the user through the operation procedure for accurate testing and proper training. With the Mission PT Coagulation Monitoring System, it is easy to achieve high quality and reliable results for Prothrombin Time (PT) and International Normalized Ratio (INR) in as little as 2 minutes. Using one single drop or capillary blood or 15 µL of venous whole blood, the user can obtain results.
     
    Holmes probably had this sort of device in mind as the basis for her great leap forward.

    But Holmes' problem was that she convinced herself (and, by lying, a bunch of investors) that she could do hundreds of tests on one single drop of blood.

    For people familiar with current technology, that is pretty clearly impossible, as turned out to be the case.

    Fifty years from now? Who can say?

    (Thanks to my wife for the details here.)

    Replies: @Tony massey, @Alden

    Sir, i do not ever wish to give offense to a man i know is my superior but…
    Holmes probably had this sort of device in mind as the basis for her great leap forward

    I do recall reading somewhere and it’s been years a story related by a classmate of hers in some very advanced sounding name involving chemistry that didn’t really involve much chemistry(at least to anyone other than a layman such as yours truly)and that’s where Liz got the 💡.
    As the story went she spoke openly in a class discussion on at least one occasion about the 💡 and the world class nervous professor instructing the class(some world Beater supposedly)gave Liz a well deserved complement for such a fantasic 💡 and then quickly explained that it was most likely impossible due to a number of technical achievements that would have to be uniquely solved.
    She dropped out soon after.

    There’s a song that comes to mind and methinks it explains well the (non) mystery that is still Liz. You’re soooooo correct in your prediction of her trying to do it again and i for one wish her ☝ speed in her next great idea. She’ll have a captive audience and prolly a fair chunk of time to stir. No telling what she comes up with.
    I hope she dyes her hair since I’ve always been partial to brunettes.
    You should check the song out. It’s about those similar to Liz. Only one Liz tho.

    The spaghetti incident was obviously a mistake and that’s what i can chalk this incident of Liz as…just a mistake.
    Sorry ya know

  185. The same people who endorsed Elizabeth Holmes bogus blood testing company are also forcing Americans to get vaccinated.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Travis

    Rupert Murdoch,
    Tim Draper
    Larry Ellison
    Walgreens.
    ATA Ventures
    Partner Fund Management
    Fortress Investment Group
    Cleveland Clinic
    AmeriHealth Caritas
    Capital BlueCross
    Henry Kissinger
    Jim Mattis
    George Shultz
    Richard Kovacevich
    William Perry
    William Foege

    https://news.crunchbase.com/news/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-trial-investors-board/


    Not seeing Kathy Hochul, Francis Collins, Anthony Fauci, Rochelle Welensky, Ron Klain, or Bilge de Blasio on this lise.

  186. @PhysicistDave
    @Alden

    Alden wrote to me:


    The problem would be figuring out how to do a blood test from a drop of capillary blood. Which proved impossible.
     
    Well, the problem was doing dozens or even hundreds of tests from one drop of blood. First, you had to route sub-droplets all over the place for the separate tests -- not that easy. And, even worse, you had to do a whole bunch of tests in a small machine on an amount of blood that was really not sufficient

    SimpleSng went into more detail on some of the problems above.

    Just doing one test on a drop of blood is actually doable: a friend of my wife's from grad school, Steve Zweig, developed a one-drop test for "anticoagulants": as this infomercial explains. Quoting their text blurb:

    The Mission PT Coagulation Monitoring System demo video guides the user through the operation procedure for accurate testing and proper training. With the Mission PT Coagulation Monitoring System, it is easy to achieve high quality and reliable results for Prothrombin Time (PT) and International Normalized Ratio (INR) in as little as 2 minutes. Using one single drop or capillary blood or 15 µL of venous whole blood, the user can obtain results.
     
    Holmes probably had this sort of device in mind as the basis for her great leap forward.

    But Holmes' problem was that she convinced herself (and, by lying, a bunch of investors) that she could do hundreds of tests on one single drop of blood.

    For people familiar with current technology, that is pretty clearly impossible, as turned out to be the case.

    Fifty years from now? Who can say?

    (Thanks to my wife for the details here.)

    Replies: @Tony massey, @Alden

    Thank you and your wife for the details.

  187. @J.Ross
    @Abolish_public_education

    It was so damn good, it was the last best thing on TV. You had music video channels that showed music videos, TCM, Alton Brown, Canadian stuff, and early Bravo, and C-Span. Ocassionally something good on PBS. Brown flamed out in midlife crisis, the Canadians plodded along Canuckishly, music video channels stopped showing music videos, TCM went pop but still has good stuff, Bravo gradually introduced commercial breaks, censorship, and pop crap before diving headfirst into being The Gay Channel, and the rest of TV was completely forgettable. Feeling nostalgic after recently watching Tiffy tell local Texans where they could place objects on rAwTiMe.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    I meant Booknotes. It has been so long since I watched it that I confused the name/network.

    I agree that TV is a waste of bandwidth. We subscribe for the i’net/phone and discount mobile. For us, the 500 channels of video package (non-stop PC commercials) might as well be 3 home improvement stations and the local news. I might as well setup to skip tye 24hr sputz and nues. Occasionally I page up to the 300s to watch reruns of Johnny Carson, Carol Burnett, and Perry Mason.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Abolish_public_education

    Insofar as I still watch "TV" I watch video files of very old shows, not even from my youth but that of my parents. A century from now the efforts of Nolan and Snyder to make comic book capewearers into funereal dirge-chanters more serious than King Lear will be an embarassing footnote if anything, but people will still have time for splashes of primary color, dutch angles, unapologetic fetish costumes, and, of course, the convenient basement atomic pile with handy safety railing.

  188. @Clyde
    @Ghost of Bull Moose


    Are you sure she’s nice?
     
    Very nice outwardly, enough to sucker in rich white guys. The big lie from the beginning is that you need a few vials of venous blood for proper testing. A drop of blood from a pricked finger/ what Theranos used/ is capillary blood.

    A pretty enough nice liar. She traded off her looks and her Steve Jobs imitation, presentation. As the Kinks song goes.--- Ya gotta give the people what they want.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGcwpJgge6g

    Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose

    She must be one hell of a liar:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10371419/Elizabeth-Holmes-jurors-say-tough-convict-likeable.html

    She fooled Henry Kissinger, which is what I call bullshitting a bullshitter.

    • Replies: @clyde
    @Ghost of Bull Moose


    She fooled Henry Kissinger, which is what I call bullshitting a bullshitter.
     
    No way. She bullshitted one of his gofers or nephews. It was one of those really rich guys. It might have been George Shutlz (Lived 101 years). It was his nephew that got him on board with Theranos
    , @J.Ross
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Fooling a high level faker like Mattis is a simple matter of having the right business card and interviewing well, and fooling a high-level non-faker like Kissinger is a simple matter of ensuring everybody around Kissinger is already fooled, so when he checks he will get bad advice from sources he trusts. Compare Isaac Newton, notably not an early adopter, tripping over himself to get in on the South Sea Bubble.

  189. @Travis
    The same people who endorsed Elizabeth Holmes bogus blood testing company are also forcing Americans to get vaccinated.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Rupert Murdoch,
    Tim Draper
    Larry Ellison
    Walgreens.
    ATA Ventures
    Partner Fund Management
    Fortress Investment Group
    Cleveland Clinic
    AmeriHealth Caritas
    Capital BlueCross
    Henry Kissinger
    Jim Mattis
    George Shultz
    Richard Kovacevich
    William Perry
    William Foege

    https://news.crunchbase.com/news/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-trial-investors-board/

    Not seeing Kathy Hochul, Francis Collins, Anthony Fauci, Rochelle Welensky, Ron Klain, or Bilge de Blasio on this lise.

  190. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Clyde

    She must be one hell of a liar:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10371419/Elizabeth-Holmes-jurors-say-tough-convict-likeable.html

    She fooled Henry Kissinger, which is what I call bullshitting a bullshitter.

    Replies: @clyde, @J.Ross

    She fooled Henry Kissinger, which is what I call bullshitting a bullshitter.

    No way. She bullshitted one of his gofers or nephews. It was one of those really rich guys. It might have been George Shutlz (Lived 101 years). It was his nephew that got him on board with Theranos

  191. @Alden
    @Curle

    You’re right about the Gates family money and positions Brother in law went to work for Microsoft in Seattle in the first years early mid 1980s. A major connection was Gates’ mother who was in the board of United Way with a western Vice President of IBM. The Gateses made a deal with him to throw a lot of work Bill’s Way
    Another thing that with peace in Vietnam Boeing laid off thousands. They didn’t have any money so all the providers of goods and services to Boeing people had problems TPTB business and government got together and provided massive tax breaks and subsidizes to any businesses that would move to Kings County Wa. Plus Carter administration was throwing money at cities for development. And Seattle got its share.

    So Bill came home from Texas. That’s why Bezos and wife moved there also Starbucks. 40 years later those 3 and many other companies are still getting the tax breaks and other subsidies from Kings County And City of Seattle. Evil liberals changed name of King County from a US Vice President to the unspeakable obscenity that was MLK.

    Head hunter found brother in law. Called him about “ a little company out in Seattle nobody’s ever heard of” They went to Seattle. 40 years later Microsoft mostly hires Asians and Indians.

    Same thing happened in Silicon Valley. White men built the industry. And then other White men aka racist capitalist pigs dumped them for non White diversity immigrants

    Replies: @clyde

    All true. White elites made it here due to the inherited social, religious and economic infrastructure that was built by whites over generations. By men who built America and fought in our wars. Now the Elites piss on this inheritance by hiring foreigners and promoting mass immigration, legal and illegal. They are almost sure to build fences around their various homes. Zuck has a stone wall around his mass acreage Hawaii place.

    I see Bezos has retired to pursue his dreams of colonizing Mars. Perhaps along with his current girlfriend?
    ____________________

    MARK ZUCKERBERG BUILDS MASSIVE WALL AROUND HIS \$100MILLION PROPERTY BUT HIS NEIGHBOURS DON’T LIKE IT
    JUNE 29, 2016 HASSAN KOCH LEAVE A COMMENT
    image

    The Facebook billionaire founder has built a 6′ stone wall around his \$100 million Kauai property that has blocked out the Pacific Ocean to neighbors and according to TMZ, many of them are livid.
    “The Facebook founder bought the 750-acre estate in 2014 and now wants to shore it up, but a 5’8” neighbor for one is furious, because now she can’t see water.
    Some neighbors claim they’ve tried reaching out to Zuckerberg, to no avail. TMZ contacted the zoning department in the area and were told no one has lodged a formal complaint and there is no investigation.

    TMZ contacted someone from the Planning Dept. and turns out Zuck has every right to build a 6′ wall if he wants … and he wants.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    @clyde

    One of the problems with the de-masculinization of men is that rich powerful men have nowhere to focus their energy. They all could have a dozen mistresses and 100 kids but instead are forced to stay married to their dowdy first wives for the sake of appearances. We freak out when an older man choses a much younger partner(s) as if that is some unnatural order of things when the total opposite is true. Chicks dig socially dominant men and men dig attractive fertile women. That is the order of the universe.

    Replies: @clyde

    , @JMcG
    @clyde

    I’m not one gleefully waiting for a total collapse. That said, the thought of security teams shooting their employers before helping themselves to the free cognac and ice cream isn’t one that would cost me any sleep at all.

  192. @Abolish_public_education
    @J.Ross

    I meant Booknotes. It has been so long since I watched it that I confused the name/network.

    I agree that TV is a waste of bandwidth. We subscribe for the i'net/phone and discount mobile. For us, the 500 channels of video package (non-stop PC commercials) might as well be 3 home improvement stations and the local news. I might as well setup to skip tye 24hr sputz and nues. Occasionally I page up to the 300s to watch reruns of Johnny Carson, Carol Burnett, and Perry Mason.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Insofar as I still watch “TV” I watch video files of very old shows, not even from my youth but that of my parents. A century from now the efforts of Nolan and Snyder to make comic book capewearers into funereal dirge-chanters more serious than King Lear will be an embarassing footnote if anything, but people will still have time for splashes of primary color, dutch angles, unapologetic fetish costumes, and, of course, the convenient basement atomic pile with handy safety railing.

  193. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Clyde

    She must be one hell of a liar:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10371419/Elizabeth-Holmes-jurors-say-tough-convict-likeable.html

    She fooled Henry Kissinger, which is what I call bullshitting a bullshitter.

    Replies: @clyde, @J.Ross

    Fooling a high level faker like Mattis is a simple matter of having the right business card and interviewing well, and fooling a high-level non-faker like Kissinger is a simple matter of ensuring everybody around Kissinger is already fooled, so when he checks he will get bad advice from sources he trusts. Compare Isaac Newton, notably not an early adopter, tripping over himself to get in on the South Sea Bubble.

  194. @Alden
    @Hibernian

    Switzerland the Cantons have a lot of power. Germany has Statts? Because we imposed an American states and national government on Germany after WW2.

    The American individual state system allows a lot of crime, both common stealing and then selling the stolen cars. And corporate crime incorporating in one state and committing crimes on one state making it difficult for the de frauded to sue and be compensated.

    Not good or bad. It is what it is. Think about state building codes Should the Deep South have the same roofing codes as the far northern states whose roofs must be sturdy enough to bear the weight of 5 months of 3 or 4 feet of snow?

    The problem in the United States is that nine minions of Satan on the Supreme Court can make or abolish any federal or state law or county or city ordinance or just about anything they wish.

    The old Anglo Saxon Common Law so beloved by idiots with Walter Scott disease. Worst legal system in the world.

    Replies: @Curle, @Hibernian

    Germany has Statts? Because we imposed an American states and national government on Germany after WW2.

    Germany was historically divided into independent principalities up until 1870 or 71 when the King of Prussia united them and became the Emperor of Germany. (This is oversimplified, of course.)
    However, a fair amount of state autonomy remained. What happened post 1945 was reorganization and redrawing of lines.

    The entire history of the German States involves Protestant vs. Catholic wars, the Napoleonic wars which ended the nominal vassalage of these states to the Holy Roman Empire, consolidation of some states as a result of these and other events, Protestant Prussia taking over a lot of Catholic territory after the Napoleonic Wars, and everything but the kitchen sink.

  195. @clyde
    @Alden

    All true. White elites made it here due to the inherited social, religious and economic infrastructure that was built by whites over generations. By men who built America and fought in our wars. Now the Elites piss on this inheritance by hiring foreigners and promoting mass immigration, legal and illegal. They are almost sure to build fences around their various homes. Zuck has a stone wall around his mass acreage Hawaii place.

    I see Bezos has retired to pursue his dreams of colonizing Mars. Perhaps along with his current girlfriend?
    ____________________


    MARK ZUCKERBERG BUILDS MASSIVE WALL AROUND HIS $100MILLION PROPERTY BUT HIS NEIGHBOURS DON’T LIKE IT
    JUNE 29, 2016 HASSAN KOCH LEAVE A COMMENT
    image

    The Facebook billionaire founder has built a 6′ stone wall around his $100 million Kauai property that has blocked out the Pacific Ocean to neighbors and according to TMZ, many of them are livid.
    “The Facebook founder bought the 750-acre estate in 2014 and now wants to shore it up, but a 5’8” neighbor for one is furious, because now she can’t see water.
    Some neighbors claim they’ve tried reaching out to Zuckerberg, to no avail. TMZ contacted the zoning department in the area and were told no one has lodged a formal complaint and there is no investigation.

    TMZ contacted someone from the Planning Dept. and turns out Zuck has every right to build a 6′ wall if he wants … and he wants.
     

    Replies: @Prof. Woland, @JMcG

    One of the problems with the de-masculinization of men is that rich powerful men have nowhere to focus their energy. They all could have a dozen mistresses and 100 kids but instead are forced to stay married to their dowdy first wives for the sake of appearances. We freak out when an older man choses a much younger partner(s) as if that is some unnatural order of things when the total opposite is true. Chicks dig socially dominant men and men dig attractive fertile women. That is the order of the universe.

    • Replies: @clyde
    @Prof. Woland


    One of the problems with the de-masculinization of men is that rich powerful men have nowhere to focus their energy. They all could have a dozen mistresses and 100 kids but instead are forced to stay married to their dowdy first wives for the sake of appearances.
     
    Professor - Far better that they are not generating 100 offspring. For most of these uber wealthy. They are nefarious, lying ass amorals. So who wants to see their genes spread far and wide, like mini-me Genghis Khans.
  196. @Alden
    @James B. Shearer

    Record high of 115 sometime in the last 140 years. Wikipedia LOL. I never felt hot in south west alameda county in the summer. It’s flat not hilly is that considered a valley or a plain. Gets wind blowing east from the Bay Pleasanton 28 miles from Oakland. Dublin 23 miles from Oakland how hit can the area get? Bitch bitch bitch and depend on Wikipedia to back you up. You and some MEN OF UNZ should re name yourselves Karen.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

    “… depend on Wikipedia ..”

    Actually I grew up in Livermore California which is just a few miles to the east of Pleasanton and know from personal experience that it can get unpleasantly hot in the summer. To be fair it is generally a dry heat and cools off at night. Yearly record temperatures for Livermore can be found here .

  197. @Alden
    @Sean

    Here’s a thought. Given the major scandal after Epstein allegedly killed him self could it be possible the French government discretely informed her that if she came back to France and was found by American law enforcement the French government would waive the law and extradite her to America?

    Just a thought. Or maybe she was so madly in love with her first ever husband she couldn’t bear to leave him? ha ha ha ha.

    Replies: @Sean

    Epstein would not marry her, which is what she clearly wanted. I think her usefulness for Epstien was social entre, but she is incredibly stupid to think she was going to get him to wed by getting him girls.
    https://i1.wp.com/hemantekkahotandviral.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/51493969-10292299-Epstein_and_Maxwell_are_seen_on_board_the_Lolita_Express_with_Fr-m-7_1639054845791.jpg?resize=634%2C445&ssl=1

    The guy in the silly trousers is

    French modeling agent Jean-Luc Brunel in a Paris court this week …

    The closed-door testimony from Virginia Roberts Giuffre, 37, is the latest turn in the international investigation into Epstein and people accused of being his co-conspirators.

    It is not clear what Giuffre told the closed-door hearing, but her court appearance comes after years of accusations against Brunel. Giuffre said in a 2016 deposition, made public in 2019, that Epstein and British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell had directed her to provide sexual services for Brunel. And speaking to NBC’s “Dateline” in a special that aired in 2019, Giuffre said Epstein told her that he had slept with “over a thousand women that Brunel brought in.”

    Brunel left America and went into hiding immediately after Epstein committed suicide.

    • Replies: @clyde
    @Sean


    Epstein would not marry her, which is what she clearly wanted. I think her usefulness for Epstien was social entre, but she is incredibly stupid to think she was going to get him to wed by getting him girls.
     
    Ghislaine was not that stupid. She wanted marriage to Eps and did her best to get there. But she always knew that Epstein agreeing to marriage was at best a 20% chance. I'll say one thing about Ghislaine, she has a very strong life force. Stronger than her siblings, who we now see photos of. As they showed up in court to show solidarity with Ghislaine. They made themselves very photo available outside the court building.
  198. @Prof. Woland
    @clyde

    One of the problems with the de-masculinization of men is that rich powerful men have nowhere to focus their energy. They all could have a dozen mistresses and 100 kids but instead are forced to stay married to their dowdy first wives for the sake of appearances. We freak out when an older man choses a much younger partner(s) as if that is some unnatural order of things when the total opposite is true. Chicks dig socially dominant men and men dig attractive fertile women. That is the order of the universe.

    Replies: @clyde

    One of the problems with the de-masculinization of men is that rich powerful men have nowhere to focus their energy. They all could have a dozen mistresses and 100 kids but instead are forced to stay married to their dowdy first wives for the sake of appearances.

    Professor – Far better that they are not generating 100 offspring. For most of these uber wealthy. They are nefarious, lying ass amorals. So who wants to see their genes spread far and wide, like mini-me Genghis Khans.

  199. @PhysicistDave
    @Athenian Gentleman

    Athenian Gentleman wrote to me:


    Regardless, assuming you were being serious, your moralistic tone would seem gratutious and jejune.
     
    Think so?

    JM may have had some good, legitimate professional reason for knowing lots of prostitutes, as I did suggest.

    But, I think it is fair to say that most people who know lots of underage prostitutes are, let us say, problem citizens.

    You disagree? Do you think that if JM knew lots of teenage prostitutes for some reason other than being, say, a cop or social worker, that would not be a problem?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Do you think that if JM knew lots of teenage prostitutes for some reason other than being, say, a cop or social worker, that would not be a problem?

    Come on Phys, do you think that all physicists bear collective responsibility for great crimes like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Imagine if the Nuremberg trials had been conducted by the Axis powers.

    Obviously you know absolutely nothing about law enforcement, juvenile delinquency, the court and custodial system, drug addiction treatment, psychiatry, psychology, education, and all the systems full of professionals that exist to help these errant young maidens to be restored to the path of righteousness.

    You just know what you have seen in the movies and on Fox News.

    OK, and I know nothing about physics except that it has something to do with the worst mass murders in history.

    While a lot of you guys are very quick to (rightly) condemn the Rotherham mess in another country, but when it comes to the issue of teen prostitutes in Florida, you are quick to raise a telescope to your blind eye and kill the messenger for good measure.

    The recent Ghislaine Maxwell trial sent out a loud message that there is a Rotherham in Florida too, and actually in real life there are several Rotherhams in Florida, because all of these teen prostitutes and drug addicts have pimps, boyfriends, and managers who manage their engagement diaries, marketing, and provide drugs and transportation.

    But as Lord Horation Nelson said, when he raised the telescope to his blind eye, “I see no ships.”

    When I bought my home in a small town in Florida, the realtor told me that there was absolutely ZERO crime in the county, and yet a few weeks later a woman was found dead by the railroad tracks with her head bashed in. Unfortunately this was after the closing, and I had no opportunity to negotiate an additional discount.

    But that is how it is in the US.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Jonathan Mason


    [T]hese teen prostitutes and drug addicts have pimps, boyfriends, and managers who manage their engagement diaries, marketing, and provide drugs and transportation.
     
    I would say to be a pimp you must profit from prostitution. If it is costing you money for sex then you qualify as a 'John'. I would also say that most people's understanding of sex trafficking is that it is a business, which is why conviction on the charge carries such heavy penalties The people who the trafficking laws were written (originally by Kamala Harris) to put away are those bringing young women suspected (usually wrongly) to be underage into the country to work in Asian massage parlors but the law tends to be used against actual sex workers. Maxwell was not engaged in a business and she was supported by a John. She was guilty of something but she has been overcharged. Re teen By her own account Giuffre-Roberts ran away from home and was living on the street and having sex with men at eleven years old. Not so easy trying to keep some girls from that lifestyle .Many people (police and social workers) tried to help the girls in Rotherham, who were controlled by true pimps.
  200. @Sean
    @Alden

    Epstein would not marry her, which is what she clearly wanted. I think her usefulness for Epstien was social entre, but she is incredibly stupid to think she was going to get him to wed by getting him girls.
    https://i1.wp.com/hemantekkahotandviral.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/51493969-10292299-Epstein_and_Maxwell_are_seen_on_board_the_Lolita_Express_with_Fr-m-7_1639054845791.jpg?resize=634%2C445&ssl=1

    The guy in the silly trousers is


    French modeling agent Jean-Luc Brunel in a Paris court this week ...

    The closed-door testimony from Virginia Roberts Giuffre, 37, is the latest turn in the international investigation into Epstein and people accused of being his co-conspirators.

    It is not clear what Giuffre told the closed-door hearing, but her court appearance comes after years of accusations against Brunel. Giuffre said in a 2016 deposition, made public in 2019, that Epstein and British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell had directed her to provide sexual services for Brunel. And speaking to NBC's "Dateline" in a special that aired in 2019, Giuffre said Epstein told her that he had slept with "over a thousand women that Brunel brought in."
     

    Brunel left America and went into hiding immediately after Epstein committed suicide.

    Replies: @clyde

    Epstein would not marry her, which is what she clearly wanted. I think her usefulness for Epstien was social entre, but she is incredibly stupid to think she was going to get him to wed by getting him girls.

    Ghislaine was not that stupid. She wanted marriage to Eps and did her best to get there. But she always knew that Epstein agreeing to marriage was at best a 20% chance. I’ll say one thing about Ghislaine, she has a very strong life force. Stronger than her siblings, who we now see photos of. As they showed up in court to show solidarity with Ghislaine. They made themselves very photo available outside the court building.

  201. @Jonathan Mason
    @PhysicistDave


    Do you think that if JM knew lots of teenage prostitutes for some reason other than being, say, a cop or social worker, that would not be a problem?
     
    Come on Phys, do you think that all physicists bear collective responsibility for great crimes like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Imagine if the Nuremberg trials had been conducted by the Axis powers.

    Obviously you know absolutely nothing about law enforcement, juvenile delinquency, the court and custodial system, drug addiction treatment, psychiatry, psychology, education, and all the systems full of professionals that exist to help these errant young maidens to be restored to the path of righteousness.

    You just know what you have seen in the movies and on Fox News.

    OK, and I know nothing about physics except that it has something to do with the worst mass murders in history.

    While a lot of you guys are very quick to (rightly) condemn the Rotherham mess in another country, but when it comes to the issue of teen prostitutes in Florida, you are quick to raise a telescope to your blind eye and kill the messenger for good measure.

    The recent Ghislaine Maxwell trial sent out a loud message that there is a Rotherham in Florida too, and actually in real life there are several Rotherhams in Florida, because all of these teen prostitutes and drug addicts have pimps, boyfriends, and managers who manage their engagement diaries, marketing, and provide drugs and transportation.

    But as Lord Horation Nelson said, when he raised the telescope to his blind eye, "I see no ships."

    When I bought my home in a small town in Florida, the realtor told me that there was absolutely ZERO crime in the county, and yet a few weeks later a woman was found dead by the railroad tracks with her head bashed in. Unfortunately this was after the closing, and I had no opportunity to negotiate an additional discount.

    But that is how it is in the US.

    https://www.macmillandictionary.com/external/slideshow/thumb/emoji_evil_thumb.jpg

    Replies: @Sean

    [T]hese teen prostitutes and drug addicts have pimps, boyfriends, and managers who manage their engagement diaries, marketing, and provide drugs and transportation.

    I would say to be a pimp you must profit from prostitution. If it is costing you money for sex then you qualify as a ‘John’. I would also say that most people’s understanding of sex trafficking is that it is a business, which is why conviction on the charge carries such heavy penalties The people who the trafficking laws were written (originally by Kamala Harris) to put away are those bringing young women suspected (usually wrongly) to be underage into the country to work in Asian massage parlors but the law tends to be used against actual sex workers. Maxwell was not engaged in a business and she was supported by a John. She was guilty of something but she has been overcharged. Re teen By her own account Giuffre-Roberts ran away from home and was living on the street and having sex with men at eleven years old. Not so easy trying to keep some girls from that lifestyle .Many people (police and social workers) tried to help the girls in Rotherham, who were controlled by true pimps.

  202. @clyde
    @Alden

    All true. White elites made it here due to the inherited social, religious and economic infrastructure that was built by whites over generations. By men who built America and fought in our wars. Now the Elites piss on this inheritance by hiring foreigners and promoting mass immigration, legal and illegal. They are almost sure to build fences around their various homes. Zuck has a stone wall around his mass acreage Hawaii place.

    I see Bezos has retired to pursue his dreams of colonizing Mars. Perhaps along with his current girlfriend?
    ____________________


    MARK ZUCKERBERG BUILDS MASSIVE WALL AROUND HIS $100MILLION PROPERTY BUT HIS NEIGHBOURS DON’T LIKE IT
    JUNE 29, 2016 HASSAN KOCH LEAVE A COMMENT
    image

    The Facebook billionaire founder has built a 6′ stone wall around his $100 million Kauai property that has blocked out the Pacific Ocean to neighbors and according to TMZ, many of them are livid.
    “The Facebook founder bought the 750-acre estate in 2014 and now wants to shore it up, but a 5’8” neighbor for one is furious, because now she can’t see water.
    Some neighbors claim they’ve tried reaching out to Zuckerberg, to no avail. TMZ contacted the zoning department in the area and were told no one has lodged a formal complaint and there is no investigation.

    TMZ contacted someone from the Planning Dept. and turns out Zuck has every right to build a 6′ wall if he wants … and he wants.
     

    Replies: @Prof. Woland, @JMcG

    I’m not one gleefully waiting for a total collapse. That said, the thought of security teams shooting their employers before helping themselves to the free cognac and ice cream isn’t one that would cost me any sleep at all.

  203. I’m not one gleefully waiting for a total collapse. That said, the thought of security teams shooting their employers before helping themselves to the free cognac and ice cream isn’t one that would cost me any sleep at all.

    —- Southern Comfort is a low grade liqueur but great poured onto ice cream. One shot onto one serving ice cream. I tried it with vanilla. Onto chocolate must be 5x better. Zuck – Bezos to Mars- Elon watch out! For pitchforks! Same for the cancerous censorious subCon imports who run Twitter, Google and Microsoft. Zuck is the lowest, along with the Twitter honcho. Mankind would be much better off without Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.

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