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Dutch PM Marc Rutte

From Medical Xpress:

Tall tale: world-beating Dutch are getting shorter
by Danny Kemp

This article has a lot of fun facts in it.

SEPTEMBER 17, 2021

Despite new data showing a generation of shorter people, the Netherlands remains the tallest country in the world.

The world’s tallest country is shrinking.

The generation of Dutch people born in 2001 is shorter than the one born in 1980, a study by the country’s statistics office said on Friday.

Lofty Dutch 19-year-old men currently measure an average of 182.9 cm (six feet) tall, and women are on average 169.3 cm (five feet seven inches) tall.

Factors including immigration and diet are likely to be responsible for the change in height, which reverses a century and a half of rapid growth, the study said. …

“The men born in 2001 were on average 1 cm shorter than the generation from 1980, women 1.4 cm on average.” …

Dutchmen rank first above Montenegro, Estonia and Bosnia, while the women are above Montenegro, Denmark and Iceland, it said, citing 2020 figures from the Non-Communicable Disease Risk Factor Collaboration, a global network of health scientists.

The smallest men are in East Timor while the smallest women are in Guatemala.

The full reasons for the Dutch comedown are not entirely clear.

One reason was immigration, “especially of people with a non-Western background”, whom the study said tend to be smaller on average.

But growth had also “stagnated” among Dutch people whose parents and grandparents were born in the Netherlands, it said.

Men had not got any taller since 1980 while there was a “downward trend” among women.

That could be because of a “biological limit” but was also likely linked to “unhealthy eating habits and excessive energy intake in the growing up phase”.

The study was based on self-measurements of 719,000 Dutch people aged 19 to 60.

Self-measurements sound kind of unreliable, although I’d probably trust the Dutch to do it right as much as anybody. Also, self-measurement allows huge sample sizes.

The Dutch were not always so lanky.

At the start of the 19th century they were small by European standards and only started to shoot up in the 1840s.

Even a century ago the United States and Scandinavia produced the tallest men, and it was not until the generation born in the late 1950s that the Dutch took the title.

I don’t think I ever heard that the Dutch were exceptionally tall until the 1990s. It was not a stereotype when I was young, as far as I can remember.

The question of why the Dutch are so tall remains unclear. …

 
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  1. Is there a single Democratic politician in the country who feels even remotely compelled to follow the rules they inflict upon the rest of us?

    • Replies: @Anon
    @HammerJack

    No.

    , @Anon
    @HammerJack

    Uh you do know context matters don’t you?

    Replies: @El Dato, @bomag, @Bill

    , @AnotherDad
    @HammerJack


    Is there a single Democratic politician in the country who feels even remotely compelled to follow the rules they inflict upon the rest of us?
     
    No.

    And that whole concept is such dead-white-cis-gendered-male thinking--very founding fatherish--that it's racist to even suggest it.
    , @Marat
    @HammerJack

    It’s amazing (and rather quaint) that Mayor Breed bothers to make any type of excuse at all. She must be new to the club. Afterall, what’s the fun of flaunting your hypocrisy if you feel at all burdened with having to explain it away? Blatant hypocrisy is a status symbol of tyrannical power - some display it more ostentatiously than others.

    , @Sick of Orcs
    @HammerJack

    Any city or town electing orcs to prominent positions are doomed to fail. Shows the people there aren't serious.

  2. Americans have been getting shorter too–since the 1980s.

    But don’t try that ctrl-f “immigr” on any articles.

    Heck, the MSM aren’t even mentioning it.

    Saves us all the trouble of wondering.

    • Replies: @TruthRevolution.net
    @Polistra

    The media lie by omission. It is dishonest to omit crucial relevant information, with intent to mislead. By Christian biblical standard it is a lie. It also violates standards of scientific honesty.

    Honest social scientists would test the hypothesis that ethnic Dutch heights differ from "passport Dutch" from other genetic stock or immigrants.

    Anything that would awaken people to race or ethnic differences must be avoided. Even such inoffensive issues like body height or 100 meter running times. Even if the difference is not exclusively genetic.

    If ethnicities differ in height, or running speed, they might also differ in criminality, murder and rape rates, and IQ. Such a comment would warrant facebook jail and Twitter expulsion.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Polistra

    Americans have been getting shorter too–since the 1980s.

    And we as a nation have have a lower average IQ, also thanks to NAM immigrants.

    Replies: @AceDeuce

    , @Henry's Cat
    @Polistra

    Definitely geting wider. The optical effect of being the same height but fatter probably explains it.

    , @Feryl
    @Polistra

    If memory serves whites have gotten shorter too, likely due to broken homes, emotional stress, drug addict parents, and more junk food*. Whites who came of age before circa 1970 had a much more stable and wholesome environment to flourish in.

    *I seem to recall 1960's born whites actually had the worst diets due to the anti-fat/anti-butter/anti-meat memes and frankenfood being marketed as an "improvement" in the 70's. So whites born in the 70's and 80's were taller since deranged Age of Aquarius food trends started to wear off in the 80's.

    , @bomag
    @Polistra

    The article made a passing note on native born following the downward trend. Not sure if these native born are actually native.

    But taller/smarter people tend to fall into the vortex of Globo-homo and not reproduce, thus following the trend downward.

    , @Anon
    @Polistra

    Also our diet/health bureaucracy. Look up Dr. John Yudkin (MD and PhD from Cambridge) and his warning 50 years ago that too much sugar was making us unhealthy (and not “fats”). The processed food and sugar industry along with our expert class made sure he was ignored, vilified. It cannot be good that our diet is so bad. Of course this is more of a working class phenomenon, along with addiction to synthetic opiates. It would not surprise me if our master class wanted the peasants short, fat, poorly educated, short-lived and drug addled.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

  3. The question of why the Dutch are so tall remains unclear. …

    Not so hard to understand:

  4. Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?

    In all events, the immigrants’ children must be bringing down the average. It is possible that 10% of the population is now Islamic.

    The Dutch did get size (and high intelligence, and a very good nature) but they did not get any toughness to go along with it. They ran Hirst Ali out. They cannot control their immigration. Dutch Muslims actually forced a parliament debate on the legality of insulting Muhammad. Naturally the Dutch birth rate is far below replacement. Come to think of it, they rolled over for the Germans in WW2. They lasted 4 days. Height might be overrated.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @ABCDE

    "Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?"

    Interesting suggestion.

    My impression is that Baby Boomers shot up in height, and they tended to have youngish parents due to age of marriage dropping after WWII.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Hannah Katz

    , @Ralph L
    @ABCDE

    they did not get any toughness to go along with it.

    The tough ones went to South Africa.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Felix Krull
    @ABCDE

    Amazing that, after the last decade of flamboyant faggotry, cuckery and kneeling, you still find Americans doing the Internet Tough Guy-routine.

    The whole world is laughing at you; we have ze internet and we zee. We see you kneeling to your Judeo-Commie overlords when their pets burn your cities down, we see child trannies working the night club circuit, we see how every single one of your politicians swear loyalty to Israel in full view of the public, we see how a carnival barker hustled himself into the White House and was celebrated as The Great White Hope.

    The Dutch have a 10% populist-nationalist presence in the Dutch Parliament and in Europe, "nationalist" means "white nationalist". How many avowed white nationalists are there in the US Congress?

    Replies: @Anonymous

  5. Sioux county Iowa Dutch tend to be well above average height for both boys and girls. I believe the same is true for Western Michigan Dutch. They haven’t been as diluted by immigration as those in the motherland yet.

    • Replies: @West michigander
    @Barnard

    Growing up among the Dutch in west michigan

    , @Anonymous
    @Barnard

    The two guys of Dutch descent that I know who are from W. Michigan are 6’4” and 6’5”.

    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Barnard

    Confirmed -- I grew up in Sioux County, and there are many tall (and big) people there.

  6. Real nice van sailer…

  7. @HammerJack
    Is there a single Democratic politician in the country who feels even remotely compelled to follow the rules they inflict upon the rest of us?

    https://i.ibb.co/n06GVyr/Screenshot-20210918-204959-Daily-Mail-Online.jpg

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @AnotherDad, @Marat, @Sick of Orcs

    No.

  8. @ABCDE
    Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?

    In all events, the immigrants’ children must be bringing down the average. It is possible that 10% of the population is now Islamic.

    The Dutch did get size (and high intelligence, and a very good nature) but they did not get any toughness to go along with it. They ran Hirst Ali out. They cannot control their immigration. Dutch Muslims actually forced a parliament debate on the legality of insulting Muhammad. Naturally the Dutch birth rate is far below replacement. Come to think of it, they rolled over for the Germans in WW2. They lasted 4 days. Height might be overrated.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ralph L, @Felix Krull

    “Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?”

    Interesting suggestion.

    My impression is that Baby Boomers shot up in height, and they tended to have youngish parents due to age of marriage dropping after WWII.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Steve Sailer


    “Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?”

    Interesting suggestion.

    My impression is that Baby Boomers shot up in height, and they tended to have youngish parents due to age of marriage dropping after WWII.

     

    My guess is that in the West with the rise in childhood and young adult obesity people responded (often with the guidance of their governments and public health officials) by limiting fat intake by children and substituting grains, which tended to yield the opposite of the desired result. (Limiting dietary fat was itself in response to various heart ailments). People used to think - quite logically but falsely - that dietary fat makes people fat, and that grains were the the foundation of a healthy diet. Swapping out animal fats and associated nutritional benefits (as is found in cow's milk) in favor of grains probably creates a sub-optimal nutritional situation.

    I don't know much more about the Dutch than your average USian, but I'd look for the Netherlands government pushing an anti-fat and pro-grain message at some point much like was pushed in the U.S. beginning in the 1970s.
    , @Hannah Katz
    @Steve Sailer

    Maybe the tall Dutch are having smaller families than the shorties?

  9. Could be the Dutch Oven effect:

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @anon

    I was expecting bad taste jokes about Anne. Was practically not disappointed.

  10. I’d heard the Dutch became tall because much of Holland is below sea level and prone to flooding. Their greater height, even if just an inch, provided a survival advantage against drowning.

    Also if a Dutchman goes on a date and asks her to split the bill, his greater stature reduces his chances of being assaulted and losing his life prematurely.

    Many more can be found here:

    https://www.newnetherlandinstitute.org/files/2613/6700/9122/DISSING_THE_DUTCH.pdf

    • LOL: Almost Missouri
  11. @HammerJack
    Is there a single Democratic politician in the country who feels even remotely compelled to follow the rules they inflict upon the rest of us?

    https://i.ibb.co/n06GVyr/Screenshot-20210918-204959-Daily-Mail-Online.jpg

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @AnotherDad, @Marat, @Sick of Orcs

    Uh you do know context matters don’t you?

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Anon

    Definitely. When you are "feeling the spirit" the mask mandate is lifted.

    Replies: @Cortes

    , @bomag
    @Anon

    Do they?

    , @Bill
    @Anon

    What's the context and how does it matter?

  12. @ABCDE
    Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?

    In all events, the immigrants’ children must be bringing down the average. It is possible that 10% of the population is now Islamic.

    The Dutch did get size (and high intelligence, and a very good nature) but they did not get any toughness to go along with it. They ran Hirst Ali out. They cannot control their immigration. Dutch Muslims actually forced a parliament debate on the legality of insulting Muhammad. Naturally the Dutch birth rate is far below replacement. Come to think of it, they rolled over for the Germans in WW2. They lasted 4 days. Height might be overrated.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ralph L, @Felix Krull

    they did not get any toughness to go along with it.

    The tough ones went to South Africa.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Ralph L

    ... where they rolled over, and in fact before the ones still up north.

  13. @HammerJack
    Is there a single Democratic politician in the country who feels even remotely compelled to follow the rules they inflict upon the rest of us?

    https://i.ibb.co/n06GVyr/Screenshot-20210918-204959-Daily-Mail-Online.jpg

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @AnotherDad, @Marat, @Sick of Orcs

    Is there a single Democratic politician in the country who feels even remotely compelled to follow the rules they inflict upon the rest of us?

    No.

    And that whole concept is such dead-white-cis-gendered-male thinking–very founding fatherish–that it’s racist to even suggest it.

  14. People from different countries have different genetics?

    Who’da thought!

  15. I always find the idea that Dutch were appreciably taller than e.g. Danes doubtful.

    When I’ve looked at Dutch conscript measurements they clustered with their neighbours and are not 6’1″. Likely this comes from self reporting or an outlier/biased sample.

    In regards to Dutch height and genetics Afrikaans have a reputation for being big in thritger side of the world.

    • Replies: @Maciano
    @Antipodean Coward

    I’m Dutch, 100%, though short: 1m75

    It’s rly true that my countrymen are tall, but immigrants like Moroccans have also gotten way bigger since their parents got here.

    I doubt that the ethnic Dutch are getting shorter. We rly are a tall nation. Intermarriage is up, so it cld be that Antilleans, Surinamese and Asian women are influencing the gene pool. Muslims do not bc muslims hardly ever intermarry

    Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)

    , @Erik Sieven
    @Antipodean Coward

    I also doubt that the Dutch are really taller than e.g. Northern Germans. I would guess people are equally tall from the Netherlands along the coast of the North Sea and the Baltic sea up Northern Russia. Anyway people from the Dinaric Alps seem to be taller

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Dumbo

    , @AKAHorace
    @Antipodean Coward


    When I’ve looked at Dutch conscript measurements they clustered with their neighbours and are not 6’1″. Likely this comes from self reporting or an outlier/biased sample
     
    This could be because the Dutch Army did not accept conscripts who were above a certain height. People who were close to the line would stretch themselves before their army interview to be too high to be drafted. This sounds unbelievable but a Dutch guy who was 6 ' 6'' told me the story.
    , @BB753
    @Antipodean Coward

    "I always find the idea that Dutch were appreciably taller than e.g. Danes doubtful."

    A short visit ( no pun intended) to the Netherlands would quickly make you change your mind. Incidentally, I believe it was Dutch late babyboomers who first shot up, as the trend for oversized Dutchmen began to be noticeable in the 70's.

  16. “Factors including immigration”

    So, in other words, the Dutch are not getting shorter, it’s just that people who happen to be standing on the ground within the borders of Holland are tending to be shorter.

    — What are you reading, Hamlet?
    — Words, words, words.

  17. @Polistra
    Americans have been getting shorter too--since the 1980s.

    But don't try that ctrl-f "immigr" on any articles.

    Heck, the MSM aren't even mentioning it.

    Saves us all the trouble of wondering.

    Replies: @TruthRevolution.net, @Harry Baldwin, @Henry's Cat, @Feryl, @bomag, @Anon

    The media lie by omission. It is dishonest to omit crucial relevant information, with intent to mislead. By Christian biblical standard it is a lie. It also violates standards of scientific honesty.

    Honest social scientists would test the hypothesis that ethnic Dutch heights differ from “passport Dutch” from other genetic stock or immigrants.

    Anything that would awaken people to race or ethnic differences must be avoided. Even such inoffensive issues like body height or 100 meter running times. Even if the difference is not exclusively genetic.

    If ethnicities differ in height, or running speed, they might also differ in criminality, murder and rape rates, and IQ. Such a comment would warrant facebook jail and Twitter expulsion.

  18. Doesn’t height correlate with intelligence? Maybe the issue is not that height is being deselected for but that the intelligent have lower fertility rates than the stupid. This assumes that the decrease in height is a real phenomena among completely native Dutch people and not the result of having one non Dutch parent.

  19. @Polistra
    Americans have been getting shorter too--since the 1980s.

    But don't try that ctrl-f "immigr" on any articles.

    Heck, the MSM aren't even mentioning it.

    Saves us all the trouble of wondering.

    Replies: @TruthRevolution.net, @Harry Baldwin, @Henry's Cat, @Feryl, @bomag, @Anon

    Americans have been getting shorter too–since the 1980s.

    And we as a nation have have a lower average IQ, also thanks to NAM immigrants.

    • Agree: Hangnail Hans
    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    @Harry Baldwin

    It's no accident that the SAT score peak was/is 1962.

  20. @Barnard
    Sioux county Iowa Dutch tend to be well above average height for both boys and girls. I believe the same is true for Western Michigan Dutch. They haven't been as diluted by immigration as those in the motherland yet.

    Replies: @West michigander, @Anonymous, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Growing up among the Dutch in west michigan

  21. @Barnard
    Sioux county Iowa Dutch tend to be well above average height for both boys and girls. I believe the same is true for Western Michigan Dutch. They haven't been as diluted by immigration as those in the motherland yet.

    Replies: @West michigander, @Anonymous, @The Last Real Calvinist

    The two guys of Dutch descent that I know who are from W. Michigan are 6’4” and 6’5”.

  22. The CDC has done research on self-reported weight and height in connection with telephone surveys. They find that people are shorter and heavier than they report, and they are thus able to adjust their numbers to be more accurate.

  23. I don’t think I ever heard that the Dutch were exceptionally tall until the 1990s. It was not a stereotype when I was young, as far as I can remember.

    The Frisians (part of the Netherlands) were mentioned as being tall in Dante’s Divine Comedy, which was written back in the 14th century.

  24. @HammerJack
    Is there a single Democratic politician in the country who feels even remotely compelled to follow the rules they inflict upon the rest of us?

    https://i.ibb.co/n06GVyr/Screenshot-20210918-204959-Daily-Mail-Online.jpg

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @AnotherDad, @Marat, @Sick of Orcs

    It’s amazing (and rather quaint) that Mayor Breed bothers to make any type of excuse at all. She must be new to the club. Afterall, what’s the fun of flaunting your hypocrisy if you feel at all burdened with having to explain it away? Blatant hypocrisy is a status symbol of tyrannical power – some display it more ostentatiously than others.

  25. @Antipodean Coward
    I always find the idea that Dutch were appreciably taller than e.g. Danes doubtful.

    When I've looked at Dutch conscript measurements they clustered with their neighbours and are not 6'1". Likely this comes from self reporting or an outlier/biased sample.

    In regards to Dutch height and genetics Afrikaans have a reputation for being big in thritger side of the world.

    Replies: @Maciano, @Erik Sieven, @AKAHorace, @BB753

    I’m Dutch, 100%, though short: 1m75

    It’s rly true that my countrymen are tall, but immigrants like Moroccans have also gotten way bigger since their parents got here.

    I doubt that the ethnic Dutch are getting shorter. We rly are a tall nation. Intermarriage is up, so it cld be that Antilleans, Surinamese and Asian women are influencing the gene pool. Muslims do not bc muslims hardly ever intermarry

    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
    @Maciano

    There was a tall Dutchman named Thor
    Who married a girl from Timor.
    Short kids were okay,
    But what turned Thor's hair gray
    Was they couldn't find square root of four.

  26. @Antipodean Coward
    I always find the idea that Dutch were appreciably taller than e.g. Danes doubtful.

    When I've looked at Dutch conscript measurements they clustered with their neighbours and are not 6'1". Likely this comes from self reporting or an outlier/biased sample.

    In regards to Dutch height and genetics Afrikaans have a reputation for being big in thritger side of the world.

    Replies: @Maciano, @Erik Sieven, @AKAHorace, @BB753

    I also doubt that the Dutch are really taller than e.g. Northern Germans. I would guess people are equally tall from the Netherlands along the coast of the North Sea and the Baltic sea up Northern Russia. Anyway people from the Dinaric Alps seem to be taller

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Erik Sieven

    The Alpha Male Zone.

    , @Dumbo
    @Erik Sieven

    Nah, the Dutch are taller. I've been relatively recently to Amsterdam, and I can attest that they are still tall, even compared to other Northern Europeans, and they do not seem to be "shrinking".

    However, they do have a lot of mulattos from the Antilles or Suriname or wherever, and that's probably bringing the average down.

  27. Has diet really changed so much in recent decades?

    Fast food, and frozen meals have been around since the 1950s.

    Do you remember eating a lot of spinach, broccoli, and asparagus in the 1980s, Steve?

  28. @Antipodean Coward
    I always find the idea that Dutch were appreciably taller than e.g. Danes doubtful.

    When I've looked at Dutch conscript measurements they clustered with their neighbours and are not 6'1". Likely this comes from self reporting or an outlier/biased sample.

    In regards to Dutch height and genetics Afrikaans have a reputation for being big in thritger side of the world.

    Replies: @Maciano, @Erik Sieven, @AKAHorace, @BB753

    When I’ve looked at Dutch conscript measurements they clustered with their neighbours and are not 6’1″. Likely this comes from self reporting or an outlier/biased sample

    This could be because the Dutch Army did not accept conscripts who were above a certain height. People who were close to the line would stretch themselves before their army interview to be too high to be drafted. This sounds unbelievable but a Dutch guy who was 6 ‘ 6” told me the story.

  29. When I was last in Dutchland I didn’t feel short (I’m 6’1″), but the number of people 6’4″ or so and above was like nothing I’d ever seen before. Also, a lot of American guys would have to piss up to use their urinals.

    There’s a Dutch community up the road from me by the Canadian border. Lots of tall, tan blondes walking around up there. I’m not going to complain about that.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Bill P

    The town of which you speak reminds me of my Sioux County hometown to an almost eerie degree.

    Replies: @Bill P

    , @ThreeCranes
    @Bill P

    Lynden?

  30. What were the Dutch eating? I know height is genetic of course, but what were they fueling themselves on to allow maximal genetic expression for height?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mackerel Sky

    The Dutch drink a lot of milk. Milk consumption significantly increases insulin, growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor. Cow's milk is designed to turn a calf into 2,000 lb behemoth.

    "Milk is not just food but most likely a genetic transfection system activating mTORC1 signaling for postnatal growth"

    https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1475-2891-12-103


    This review presents milk as a materno-neonatal relay system functioning by transfer of preferential amino acids, which increase plasma levels of glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP), glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), insulin, growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) for mTORC1 activation. Importantly, milk exosomes, which regularly contain microRNA-21, most likely represent a genetic transfection system enhancing mTORC1-driven metabolic processes.
     

    Replies: @Mackerel Sky

  31. @Anon
    @HammerJack

    Uh you do know context matters don’t you?

    Replies: @El Dato, @bomag, @Bill

    Definitely. When you are “feeling the spirit” the mask mandate is lifted.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    @El Dato

    Does the Dutch cap have an effect?

  32. Six six is nothing particularly remarkable in Holland. I have heard it suggested that the Dutch consume a lot of milk (containing growth hormones supposedly). I doubt that it is not mainly genetic because the north Germans have some extremely tall men, and women.

    Men had not got any taller since 1980 while there was a “downward trend” among women

    I recall reading that short women have superior reproductive success. so there probably is a limit (as with many qualities that are really an advantage to men rather than women).. Also, women are reluctant to marry men shorter than them. So the immigrants who score likely are quite big for the country they originate from.

    Six foot tall Dutch girl Lisanne Froon, who disappeared on a hike in Panama with her friend Kris Kremers in 2014. Photo taken on the hike from the camera in her backpack that was later found.

  33. Shorter girls hit puberty earlier and grow up to be shorter women, who have more babies. If the Dutch-Dutch (goose) are getting shorter, then it might be due to fecundity selection. Has the standard deviation or skew in the number of children a mother has increased in the time frame relevant to the people surveyed? Like 25 years ago or so?

    Height and intelligence correlate (slightly) within populations, at least for whites, so shrinking might be a sign of dysgenic reproduction, I do not know what the Dutch marriage market looks like, but if tall, attractive men play the field for decades without issue, even if they eventually have kids that are Euro-legitimate (parents are seriously pair-bonded), but short, average looking guys settle down as soon as they can, then that’s selection pressure that would reduce height.

    [MORE]

    What the situation in Europe with the various aliens and intermarriage, though in Europe, so I should say inter-reproduction, with the natives and various brands of non-Euros. Mulattoes in England (white mother, of course) are so common they are called “londattos”, but when I was in Denmark 15 or so years ago, I don’t think I saw a single person who looked mixed Danish-non-white.

    Education and healthcare are subsidized in Euno, pronounced “you know” and means Europe North, a neologism you first saw here, so young Europeans are not sterilized by loans for education, right? If so, that might mean middle-class+ reproduction is less repressed over there. I realize housing and space are at a premium over there, but some of the drive for larger homes is not for absolute size, but for position in a peer group. If everyone lives in smaller apartments, then that removes a lot of the sting. Not to mention that historically, Holland was full of Dutch, with nearly no antisocial minorities, so parks and public schools in cities were usable by Dutch families. I have a feeling if a wizard went poof, and NYC became 95% white and student loans were all canceled, then there would be quite a baby boom. Imagine if white New Yorkers’ kids received free education from all the money they pay in taxes for education!

    Despite men being taller than women, height The SNPs that affect height do so equally for both sexes and all 57 genders. (I wonder about EA and IQ’) which indicates that the alleles that make men taller are pretty much fixed and not segregating? So, doing a GWAS on middle-aged Dutch, then genotyping younger Dutch and getting PGS could tell us if the Dutch are getting shorter through natural selection or environmental effects. It would also be easier and more objective to confine both GWAS are PGS samples to 100% Dutch than what could be done by surveys, or at least 1o0% Eunos. As an example of survey subjectivity, former President Obama listed his race as black on the census, when objectively he is half white. Genotyping would have picked up that mistake.

    There’s also the matter of infectious disease. I have a pet theory, which could be wrong, that the near-constant colds little kids have late fall through early spring in temperate areas and sometimes year-round warmer places cause a fair amount of harm. We don’t notice because it’s nearly universal. Later diseases like arthritis and even heart disease may be primed by colds as kids. Anyway, have the third-world interlopers in Holland brought their diseases with them? Possibly, immigrants brought novel infections that somewhat depress Dutch height.

    My guess though? People surveyed lied less about their height than before, or ethnically mixed people, whether third world or just shorter Europeans depressed height. Like people talk about US height increases stopping but did not notice all the shorter Italians who immigrated.

    What about Dutch military recruits, are they getting shorter?

    • Thanks: bomag
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Rob

    Northern Europeans pay higher taxes than we do for all that "free stuff".

    Replies: @Rob

  34. Anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    True Germanics, and the true Dutch are true Germanics, are, generally speaking, tall people.

    This has been known at least since the time of Tacitus and Julius Caesar.

    The apparent ‘shrinking’ of the ‘modern Dutch’ is, *for sure*, an artifact of the massive third world immigration that has afflicted the Netherlands in recent times.

  35. @Barnard
    Sioux county Iowa Dutch tend to be well above average height for both boys and girls. I believe the same is true for Western Michigan Dutch. They haven't been as diluted by immigration as those in the motherland yet.

    Replies: @West michigander, @Anonymous, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Confirmed — I grew up in Sioux County, and there are many tall (and big) people there.

  36. @Bill P
    When I was last in Dutchland I didn't feel short (I'm 6'1"), but the number of people 6'4" or so and above was like nothing I'd ever seen before. Also, a lot of American guys would have to piss up to use their urinals.

    There's a Dutch community up the road from me by the Canadian border. Lots of tall, tan blondes walking around up there. I'm not going to complain about that.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @ThreeCranes

    The town of which you speak reminds me of my Sioux County hometown to an almost eerie degree.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Same deal with the Reformed churches on every block and the kitschy windmill storefronts?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

  37. Our newly-minted teenager came up to me today claiming to have surpassed his dad in height. He’d be about 1.5% Dutch via New Netherland. We’re doing our part!

    With four or five more years of growth, he’ll probably reach Steve.

  38. @Polistra
    Americans have been getting shorter too--since the 1980s.

    But don't try that ctrl-f "immigr" on any articles.

    Heck, the MSM aren't even mentioning it.

    Saves us all the trouble of wondering.

    Replies: @TruthRevolution.net, @Harry Baldwin, @Henry's Cat, @Feryl, @bomag, @Anon

    Definitely geting wider. The optical effect of being the same height but fatter probably explains it.

  39. Anonymous[502] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t think I ever heard that the Dutch were exceptionally tall until the 1990s. It was not a stereotype when I was young, as far as I can remember.

    The Dutch have so many other stereotypes that their loftiness tends to get overlooked.

    Example:

  40. Height as sex selection metric came about with American victory in WWII.

    At the end of WWII Judeo-American culture points were disemminated throughout the world as the standard for dominance, naturally.

    Everyone wants to emulate the dominant.

    It’s a psychological thing.

    The victor’s culture was exported whether you liked it or not, and if you wanted to breed you had to get on board with the mores of the dominant discernment.

    It would be a fantastic documentary series to hear western history post wwii via its music.

    B52s would never be heard of if Nazi Germany had won, nor would Yoko Ono.

    Imagine what the world’s music would be today were it not for American Victory at D-Day.

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    @Pat Hannagan

    You know what's ironic?

    If the Dutch had lost the war they'd still be in control of their own country today, regardless of their height and what amount of moral justification they measure by it.

    The legacy of wwii runs deepest in America which was destined to have itself overrun and destroyed with drugs and sex.

    In the 70s America was 100% White

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIWDmmqZzY

    Today, without any threats from abroad it's a shell of the stock which "won" wwii.

    The premise of Unz.com is not getting to the bottom of this conundrum.

    Replies: @Anon, @Malcolm X-Lax

    , @Anon
    @Pat Hannagan

    Please. No one has ever listened to Yoko Ono.

  41. @Pat Hannagan
    Height as sex selection metric came about with American victory in WWII.

    At the end of WWII Judeo-American culture points were disemminated throughout the world as the standard for dominance, naturally.

    Everyone wants to emulate the dominant.

    It's a psychological thing.

    The victor's culture was exported whether you liked it or not, and if you wanted to breed you had to get on board with the mores of the dominant discernment.

    It would be a fantastic documentary series to hear western history post wwii via its music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJwQuTqqPvo

    B52s would never be heard of if Nazi Germany had won, nor would Yoko Ono.

    Imagine what the world's music would be today were it not for American Victory at D-Day.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm_IV6eRqyk

    Replies: @Pat Hannagan, @Anon

    You know what’s ironic?

    If the Dutch had lost the war they’d still be in control of their own country today, regardless of their height and what amount of moral justification they measure by it.

    The legacy of wwii runs deepest in America which was destined to have itself overrun and destroyed with drugs and sex.

    In the 70s America was 100% White

    Today, without any threats from abroad it’s a shell of the stock which “won” wwii.

    The premise of Unz.com is not getting to the bottom of this conundrum.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Pat Hannagan

    Interesting, you decry drugs and sex but post a 1970s Lynyrd Skynryd concert.


    Can't have your cake and eat it, too. 1970s were peak drugs, sex, and social degeneracy, with concerts like that one taking the lead. Whole lotta PCP, jack daniels, duct tape and murder weapons at that show.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Pat Hannagan

    And that's in Oakland! But it reminds me of the Bay Area I grew up in. BTW, my sister-in-law, who is now 60, is one of the cute blonds you see from the back.

  42. @Polistra
    Americans have been getting shorter too--since the 1980s.

    But don't try that ctrl-f "immigr" on any articles.

    Heck, the MSM aren't even mentioning it.

    Saves us all the trouble of wondering.

    Replies: @TruthRevolution.net, @Harry Baldwin, @Henry's Cat, @Feryl, @bomag, @Anon

    If memory serves whites have gotten shorter too, likely due to broken homes, emotional stress, drug addict parents, and more junk food*. Whites who came of age before circa 1970 had a much more stable and wholesome environment to flourish in.

    *I seem to recall 1960’s born whites actually had the worst diets due to the anti-fat/anti-butter/anti-meat memes and frankenfood being marketed as an “improvement” in the 70’s. So whites born in the 70’s and 80’s were taller since deranged Age of Aquarius food trends started to wear off in the 80’s.

  43. @Rob
    Shorter girls hit puberty earlier and grow up to be shorter women, who have more babies. If the Dutch-Dutch (goose) are getting shorter, then it might be due to fecundity selection. Has the standard deviation or skew in the number of children a mother has increased in the time frame relevant to the people surveyed? Like 25 years ago or so?

    Height and intelligence correlate (slightly) within populations, at least for whites, so shrinking might be a sign of dysgenic reproduction, I do not know what the Dutch marriage market looks like, but if tall, attractive men play the field for decades without issue, even if they eventually have kids that are Euro-legitimate (parents are seriously pair-bonded), but short, average looking guys settle down as soon as they can, then that’s selection pressure that would reduce height.

    What the situation in Europe with the various aliens and intermarriage, though in Europe, so I should say inter-reproduction, with the natives and various brands of non-Euros. Mulattoes in England (white mother, of course) are so common they are called “londattos”, but when I was in Denmark 15 or so years ago, I don’t think I saw a single person who looked mixed Danish-non-white.

    Education and healthcare are subsidized in Euno, pronounced “you know” and means Europe North, a neologism you first saw here, so young Europeans are not sterilized by loans for education, right? If so, that might mean middle-class+ reproduction is less repressed over there. I realize housing and space are at a premium over there, but some of the drive for larger homes is not for absolute size, but for position in a peer group. If everyone lives in smaller apartments, then that removes a lot of the sting. Not to mention that historically, Holland was full of Dutch, with nearly no antisocial minorities, so parks and public schools in cities were usable by Dutch families. I have a feeling if a wizard went poof, and NYC became 95% white and student loans were all canceled, then there would be quite a baby boom. Imagine if white New Yorkers’ kids received free education from all the money they pay in taxes for education!

    Despite men being taller than women, height The SNPs that affect height do so equally for both sexes and all 57 genders. (I wonder about EA and IQ’) which indicates that the alleles that make men taller are pretty much fixed and not segregating? So, doing a GWAS on middle-aged Dutch, then genotyping younger Dutch and getting PGS could tell us if the Dutch are getting shorter through natural selection or environmental effects. It would also be easier and more objective to confine both GWAS are PGS samples to 100% Dutch than what could be done by surveys, or at least 1o0% Eunos. As an example of survey subjectivity, former President Obama listed his race as black on the census, when objectively he is half white. Genotyping would have picked up that mistake.

    There’s also the matter of infectious disease. I have a pet theory, which could be wrong, that the near-constant colds little kids have late fall through early spring in temperate areas and sometimes year-round warmer places cause a fair amount of harm. We don’t notice because it’s nearly universal. Later diseases like arthritis and even heart disease may be primed by colds as kids. Anyway, have the third-world interlopers in Holland brought their diseases with them? Possibly, immigrants brought novel infections that somewhat depress Dutch height.

    My guess though? People surveyed lied less about their height than before, or ethnically mixed people, whether third world or just shorter Europeans depressed height. Like people talk about US height increases stopping but did not notice all the shorter Italians who immigrated.

    What about Dutch military recruits, are they getting shorter?

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    Northern Europeans pay higher taxes than we do for all that “free stuff”.

    • Replies: @Rob
    @Redneck farmer

    Well, considering that people’s highest-earning years (white-collar) are in their late thirties to fifties, and women’s fertility starts to decline at thirty, and the decline accelerates considerably at 35, and a man’s sperm starts to accumulate more mutations with age and no starting threshold, do you see any problems? Is there maybe a mismatch between reproductive age and “afford stuff for kids age”?

    Europeans and Americans pay fairly high tax rates. The rich are an exception. Not successful doctors rich, their income is income. They pay taxes on that, it’s one of the reasons doctors vote Republican, so the government would cut the dividend tax. Rich Americans, like Elon Musk, pay very little in tax. He has almost no income, you see. How does he eat? He borrows money from banks against the value of Tesla stock. Every day, he goes deeper into debt. It would be unfair to make such a desperate man pay taxes. Maybe, one day, assuming Tesla does catch fire like a giant lithium battery, Musk’s heirs might pay an inheritance tax. But Musk himself! Nope. Taxes are for you.

    Americans need to pay more taxes. If we don’t what are we going to do when China has hollowed us into a husk and stops paying for our government? Your tax cuts are going to be paid for in blood.

    From 1965 on, American-Americans get little value for their taxes in many places where wages are the highest. We both know the reason, and in America, government spending on amenities lowers the taxpayers' quality of life. In Copenhagen, white, Danish, I mean, parents can send their kids to public schools. The kids come home stab-wound-free and have often learned things that lead to thriving in a first-world society. Try that in NYC. Or a good chunk of the South. Portland is currently experiencing the wonders of being taxed more to finance its ethnic cleansing. They can buy or rent comfortable though modest homes and apartments. American homes have yards that take an army of Guatemalans to maintain, then Americans have to pay a fortune to buy a house in a neighborhood that is not full of Juan Mower’s niños.

    Much like the American government cannot legally restrict your speech, they outsource that to the tech industry, in many ways we are both taxed by the government to provide a service to others, but we pay companies yet more to provide the services to us. I will bet (have not looked it up) that Americans’ income tax + health insurance premium, especially when including employer-paid portion, is higher than Danes’ tax rate for the vast majority of workers.

    Compared to Americans, Eunos live in a frigid Utopia. A Eutopia, if you will. Eunos are probably not at replacement fertility, but they do better than Italians and other, um, Eusos. Granted, the fact that France’s climate is more appealing to third worlders than Oslo’s is not part of a brilliant Norwegian Stay Norwegian master plan, but they can utilize the cold.

    They don’t know the horrors of third worlders shoved into the modern world, so they mat throw it away out of the typical mind fallacy but they have it.

    You might say, “well, north sea oil.” but the US producers huge amounts of coal, oil, and nat gas. Norway has a sovereign wealth fund. In America, all the money goes into very few private hands. But don’t worry, they don’t pay much in taxes. You do, though, to support their servants. Norway has sovereign wealth, but we have an incomprehensible national debt.

    Low taxes and military spending are killing us. The fear that it’s all about to fall apart that right-wingers (and i) have? Most of you don’t want to try and make things better, more stable. You just buy guns cuz muh individualism.

    Now, you might make the argument that making America a Northern European nation is no longer an option, barring great unpleasantness. I have no counter to that. But we pay so much to companies to have a small government. Like what was once a translator's job, the only translator for that language with a security clearance, I forget the language, was once a 70k a year job. They eliminated her position, and now she works for a contractor. The contract is around 150k a year. Every few years, the contract expires, and a new contractor wins it and they hire her. Every job that was once a bureaucrat drawing a salary is now a contractor drawing more than that bureaucrat ever cost, with less accountability and now someone pulling millions in contracts who can bribe politicians in a way the federal unions could not. Fed unions- could they offer former Senators board seats at 50k/year plus expenses?

    I’m not saying their way should be our way, but I'd bet Norway will be a Norwegian nation with zero years of civil war between 2021 and 2071. Would I bet the same about America being an American nation with...not really, would you?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  44. @Antipodean Coward
    I always find the idea that Dutch were appreciably taller than e.g. Danes doubtful.

    When I've looked at Dutch conscript measurements they clustered with their neighbours and are not 6'1". Likely this comes from self reporting or an outlier/biased sample.

    In regards to Dutch height and genetics Afrikaans have a reputation for being big in thritger side of the world.

    Replies: @Maciano, @Erik Sieven, @AKAHorace, @BB753

    “I always find the idea that Dutch were appreciably taller than e.g. Danes doubtful.”

    A short visit ( no pun intended) to the Netherlands would quickly make you change your mind. Incidentally, I believe it was Dutch late babyboomers who first shot up, as the trend for oversized Dutchmen began to be noticeable in the 70’s.

  45. Couldn’t care less about the anxieties of the Dutch. Are there a smugger, more scoldingly woke white people? How many Dutch have ever given a damn about their brethren in South Africa? Yeah, Amsterdam, so cool, marijuana cafes, brothels with display windows…interesting for about 15 minutes in 1976.

    The only worthwhile Dutchman of the past 70 years was Theo Van Gogh. Maybe hard times will make them useful.

  46. “unhealthy eating habits and excessive energy intake in the growing up phase”

    This sounds rather preposterous. Everything I have ever read on the subject suggest that refined foods and food abundance characteristic of modern diet tend to promote growth to one’s genetic maximum potential.
    If anything, it is the opposite dietary trend that is responsible for this growth stagnation: vegetarian and vegan fads, for instance. Now, technically if such diets result in nutritional deficits or if they can be shown to stunt growth ever so slightly they should be considered unhealthy. But generally such diets, and low-calorie diets in general, are considered healthy in a colloquial sense.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Percival

    Strongly agreed. Meat and milk intake per capita has sharply deflined since the 1940s, producing generation after generation of weak fucktards. American kids in the 1800s got 5-15 pounds of meat daily, we had a booming leather industry, and leather was much higher quality. They took away our birthright to kill animals with the women vote, now the cattle ranching towns shed young people and become ghost towns.. Unused pastureland abounds in the great plains. Field after field of wasted potential.

    , @al gore rhythms
    @Percival

    But wouldn't vegans prefer it if we are all hobbit-sized? The smaller people are, the less Earth's precious resources are used up.

  47. @Anon
    @HammerJack

    Uh you do know context matters don’t you?

    Replies: @El Dato, @bomag, @Bill

    Do they?

  48. @anon
    Could be the Dutch Oven effect:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMNNAak0QW0

    Replies: @El Dato

    I was expecting bad taste jokes about Anne. Was practically not disappointed.

  49. @Polistra
    Americans have been getting shorter too--since the 1980s.

    But don't try that ctrl-f "immigr" on any articles.

    Heck, the MSM aren't even mentioning it.

    Saves us all the trouble of wondering.

    Replies: @TruthRevolution.net, @Harry Baldwin, @Henry's Cat, @Feryl, @bomag, @Anon

    The article made a passing note on native born following the downward trend. Not sure if these native born are actually native.

    But taller/smarter people tend to fall into the vortex of Globo-homo and not reproduce, thus following the trend downward.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  50. @Ralph L
    @ABCDE

    they did not get any toughness to go along with it.

    The tough ones went to South Africa.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    … where they rolled over, and in fact before the ones still up north.

  51. Could the height increase since WWII be a reaction to the starving years during it?

  52. What I have seen among girls in the white middle and upper middle class is a huge explosion of heights above 6’…This is evident even among the Junior HS group..and there were two female teachers in the school where I taught who were at least 6’5″, which was unheard of a generation ago….Anybody got an explanation for this?

    • Replies: @oliver elkington
    @pyrrhus

    Organic food diets? though i generally grew up on a lot of organic food it did not do me any favours height wise being of plain average height for Britain myself. What i do notice is this very real height disparity in different social classes, upper class girls are often 2 or 3 inches taller than working class girls and the same with the men too but perhaps less pronounced height differences.

  53. I don’t think I ever heard that the Dutch were exceptionally tall until the 1990s. It was not a stereotype when I was young, as far as I can remember.

    Short, fat, and ruddy

  54. @HammerJack
    Is there a single Democratic politician in the country who feels even remotely compelled to follow the rules they inflict upon the rest of us?

    https://i.ibb.co/n06GVyr/Screenshot-20210918-204959-Daily-Mail-Online.jpg

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @AnotherDad, @Marat, @Sick of Orcs

    Any city or town electing orcs to prominent positions are doomed to fail. Shows the people there aren’t serious.

  55. @ABCDE
    Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?

    In all events, the immigrants’ children must be bringing down the average. It is possible that 10% of the population is now Islamic.

    The Dutch did get size (and high intelligence, and a very good nature) but they did not get any toughness to go along with it. They ran Hirst Ali out. They cannot control their immigration. Dutch Muslims actually forced a parliament debate on the legality of insulting Muhammad. Naturally the Dutch birth rate is far below replacement. Come to think of it, they rolled over for the Germans in WW2. They lasted 4 days. Height might be overrated.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ralph L, @Felix Krull

    Amazing that, after the last decade of flamboyant faggotry, cuckery and kneeling, you still find Americans doing the Internet Tough Guy-routine.

    The whole world is laughing at you; we have ze internet and we zee. We see you kneeling to your Judeo-Commie overlords when their pets burn your cities down, we see child trannies working the night club circuit, we see how every single one of your politicians swear loyalty to Israel in full view of the public, we see how a carnival barker hustled himself into the White House and was celebrated as The Great White Hope.

    The Dutch have a 10% populist-nationalist presence in the Dutch Parliament and in Europe, “nationalist” means “white nationalist”. How many avowed white nationalists are there in the US Congress?

    • Agree: Sam Malone
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Felix Krull

    So what? We can still destroy your country with just one nuke. Hell, not even a nuke, a conventional strike on the dykes would destroy it.

    Replies: @Badger Down

  56. Anon[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @Polistra
    Americans have been getting shorter too--since the 1980s.

    But don't try that ctrl-f "immigr" on any articles.

    Heck, the MSM aren't even mentioning it.

    Saves us all the trouble of wondering.

    Replies: @TruthRevolution.net, @Harry Baldwin, @Henry's Cat, @Feryl, @bomag, @Anon

    Also our diet/health bureaucracy. Look up Dr. John Yudkin (MD and PhD from Cambridge) and his warning 50 years ago that too much sugar was making us unhealthy (and not “fats”). The processed food and sugar industry along with our expert class made sure he was ignored, vilified. It cannot be good that our diet is so bad. Of course this is more of a working class phenomenon, along with addiction to synthetic opiates. It would not surprise me if our master class wanted the peasants short, fat, poorly educated, short-lived and drug addled.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Anon


    Also our diet/health bureaucracy. Look up Dr. John Yudkin (MD and PhD from Cambridge) and his warning 50 years ago that too much sugar was making us unhealthy (and not “fats”). The processed food and sugar industry along with our expert class made sure he was ignored, vilified. It cannot be good that our diet is so bad. Of course this is more of a working class phenomenon, along with addiction to synthetic opiates. It would not surprise me if our master class wanted the peasants short, fat, poorly educated, short-lived and drug addled.
     
    In fairness I think the people who made these decisions believed that enriched, grain based foods would be a superior alternative while also believing that dietary fat caused cardiovascular ailments. It's just that once that ball got rolling, it becomes near impossible to reverse its course in spite of the data.

    Note as well that the enriched, grain-based diet where shelf-stable, sugar-added grain products are ubiquitous (i.e., snack foods like chips and cakes) coincided with the two-earner household and the latchkey kid phenomenon. Kids could fill up on Doritos after school and it took the pressure off of Mom to put a nutritious fresh cooked meal on the table.
  57. @Pat Hannagan
    Height as sex selection metric came about with American victory in WWII.

    At the end of WWII Judeo-American culture points were disemminated throughout the world as the standard for dominance, naturally.

    Everyone wants to emulate the dominant.

    It's a psychological thing.

    The victor's culture was exported whether you liked it or not, and if you wanted to breed you had to get on board with the mores of the dominant discernment.

    It would be a fantastic documentary series to hear western history post wwii via its music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJwQuTqqPvo

    B52s would never be heard of if Nazi Germany had won, nor would Yoko Ono.

    Imagine what the world's music would be today were it not for American Victory at D-Day.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm_IV6eRqyk

    Replies: @Pat Hannagan, @Anon

    Please. No one has ever listened to Yoko Ono.

  58. Anon[142] • Disclaimer says:

    The youthful generation of Dutch starved during WW2. They were shorter than they should have been. No doubt those who grew up during WW1 and the European economic depression of the 1930s also experienced food shortages and were shorter than they could have been.

    When yogurt became a breakfast staple, it was noticed that younger Europeans were getting taller than their parents.

    By the way, children raised on cow’s milk are taller than those raised on goat’s milk or sheep’s milk. Cow’s milk has more innate growth hormones in it, even with no artificial hormones added, because a cow is trying to make a much larger animal than a goat or sheep.

    So if you’re cancer prone, cut back on milk a bit.

    Re: spread of lactose tolerance: if milk-raised sons are taller, this would have given them a marital advantage among the short guys. Height is a status symbol in most primitive societies. It means you are well-nourished. If milk makes you a bit smarter, these sons would likely have become tribal chiefs, which is better for attracting women.

  59. @Steve Sailer
    @ABCDE

    "Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?"

    Interesting suggestion.

    My impression is that Baby Boomers shot up in height, and they tended to have youngish parents due to age of marriage dropping after WWII.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Hannah Katz

    “Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?”

    Interesting suggestion.

    My impression is that Baby Boomers shot up in height, and they tended to have youngish parents due to age of marriage dropping after WWII.

    My guess is that in the West with the rise in childhood and young adult obesity people responded (often with the guidance of their governments and public health officials) by limiting fat intake by children and substituting grains, which tended to yield the opposite of the desired result. (Limiting dietary fat was itself in response to various heart ailments). People used to think – quite logically but falsely – that dietary fat makes people fat, and that grains were the the foundation of a healthy diet. Swapping out animal fats and associated nutritional benefits (as is found in cow’s milk) in favor of grains probably creates a sub-optimal nutritional situation.

    I don’t know much more about the Dutch than your average USian, but I’d look for the Netherlands government pushing an anti-fat and pro-grain message at some point much like was pushed in the U.S. beginning in the 1970s.

  60. @Anon
    @Polistra

    Also our diet/health bureaucracy. Look up Dr. John Yudkin (MD and PhD from Cambridge) and his warning 50 years ago that too much sugar was making us unhealthy (and not “fats”). The processed food and sugar industry along with our expert class made sure he was ignored, vilified. It cannot be good that our diet is so bad. Of course this is more of a working class phenomenon, along with addiction to synthetic opiates. It would not surprise me if our master class wanted the peasants short, fat, poorly educated, short-lived and drug addled.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Also our diet/health bureaucracy. Look up Dr. John Yudkin (MD and PhD from Cambridge) and his warning 50 years ago that too much sugar was making us unhealthy (and not “fats”). The processed food and sugar industry along with our expert class made sure he was ignored, vilified. It cannot be good that our diet is so bad. Of course this is more of a working class phenomenon, along with addiction to synthetic opiates. It would not surprise me if our master class wanted the peasants short, fat, poorly educated, short-lived and drug addled.

    In fairness I think the people who made these decisions believed that enriched, grain based foods would be a superior alternative while also believing that dietary fat caused cardiovascular ailments. It’s just that once that ball got rolling, it becomes near impossible to reverse its course in spite of the data.

    Note as well that the enriched, grain-based diet where shelf-stable, sugar-added grain products are ubiquitous (i.e., snack foods like chips and cakes) coincided with the two-earner household and the latchkey kid phenomenon. Kids could fill up on Doritos after school and it took the pressure off of Mom to put a nutritious fresh cooked meal on the table.

  61. Comparing Rutte to Macron is not fair, since the latter is a bit of a runt, isn’t he?

  62. I see the men are being outdone by women in the race to miniaturize pretty much everywhere even down to the Squat Guat’s. It’s all a part of the WEF’s plan to pack us in tighter and tighter.

  63. @Steve Sailer
    @ABCDE

    "Older moms and dads? Could that cause the shrink?"

    Interesting suggestion.

    My impression is that Baby Boomers shot up in height, and they tended to have youngish parents due to age of marriage dropping after WWII.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Hannah Katz

    Maybe the tall Dutch are having smaller families than the shorties?

  64. Weren’t the Germanics (and associated groups like the Dutch, Scandinavians) always a tall population? The Germanics in the Midwest are considered tall, and among them the Dutch in Western Michigan are noted for being particularly tall. I believe the Netherlands was the first country to urbanize over 50%. The early days of urban living were horrendous, with hygiene and food issues not being solved until mid-20th century maybe. So height went down due to disease and lack of fresh food, then went back up again to its genetic potential after WWII.

    Self reported heights are unreliable, but when you go to Amsterdam from London the difference in height is notable, even excluding the immigrant populations.

    Average height of 6′ among men is not unusual by historic standards. There are hunter gatherer populations from various places in the world that were nearing that. They had no healthcare and probably had recurring periods of starvation. Height went down to more like 5’7″ with agriculture, then rebounded some, then went down a whole lot in the early days of industrialization/urbanization in a lot of places.

  65. Upstate NY residents will assure you that whatever Guatemalan women may lack in height, they more than make up for in width

  66. @Erik Sieven
    @Antipodean Coward

    I also doubt that the Dutch are really taller than e.g. Northern Germans. I would guess people are equally tall from the Netherlands along the coast of the North Sea and the Baltic sea up Northern Russia. Anyway people from the Dinaric Alps seem to be taller

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Dumbo

    The Alpha Male Zone.

  67. @Felix Krull
    @ABCDE

    Amazing that, after the last decade of flamboyant faggotry, cuckery and kneeling, you still find Americans doing the Internet Tough Guy-routine.

    The whole world is laughing at you; we have ze internet and we zee. We see you kneeling to your Judeo-Commie overlords when their pets burn your cities down, we see child trannies working the night club circuit, we see how every single one of your politicians swear loyalty to Israel in full view of the public, we see how a carnival barker hustled himself into the White House and was celebrated as The Great White Hope.

    The Dutch have a 10% populist-nationalist presence in the Dutch Parliament and in Europe, "nationalist" means "white nationalist". How many avowed white nationalists are there in the US Congress?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    So what? We can still destroy your country with just one nuke. Hell, not even a nuke, a conventional strike on the dykes would destroy it.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
    @Anonymous

    The US nearly destroyed itself with one dyke, but the nation voted for Trump.

  68. Probably same as with the reversed Flynn Effect we’re seeing in developed countries.

    With environmental suppression of height and iq being eliminated, dysgenic effects become more pronounced. For the same reasons I expect an increase in religiosity soon as well.

  69. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mackerel Sky
    What were the Dutch eating? I know height is genetic of course, but what were they fueling themselves on to allow maximal genetic expression for height?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The Dutch drink a lot of milk. Milk consumption significantly increases insulin, growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor. Cow’s milk is designed to turn a calf into 2,000 lb behemoth.

    “Milk is not just food but most likely a genetic transfection system activating mTORC1 signaling for postnatal growth”

    https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1475-2891-12-103

    This review presents milk as a materno-neonatal relay system functioning by transfer of preferential amino acids, which increase plasma levels of glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP), glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), insulin, growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) for mTORC1 activation. Importantly, milk exosomes, which regularly contain microRNA-21, most likely represent a genetic transfection system enhancing mTORC1-driven metabolic processes.

    • Replies: @Mackerel Sky
    @Anonymous

    Excellent, thank you.

  70. @Pat Hannagan
    @Pat Hannagan

    You know what's ironic?

    If the Dutch had lost the war they'd still be in control of their own country today, regardless of their height and what amount of moral justification they measure by it.

    The legacy of wwii runs deepest in America which was destined to have itself overrun and destroyed with drugs and sex.

    In the 70s America was 100% White

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIWDmmqZzY

    Today, without any threats from abroad it's a shell of the stock which "won" wwii.

    The premise of Unz.com is not getting to the bottom of this conundrum.

    Replies: @Anon, @Malcolm X-Lax

    Interesting, you decry drugs and sex but post a 1970s Lynyrd Skynryd concert.

    Can’t have your cake and eat it, too. 1970s were peak drugs, sex, and social degeneracy, with concerts like that one taking the lead. Whole lotta PCP, jack daniels, duct tape and murder weapons at that show.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Interesting, you decry drugs and sex but post a 1970s Lynyrd Skynryd concert. Can’t have your cake and eat it, too.
     
    • Agree: Leonard Skinner

    Well, his point was that the Dutch should have submitted to a BDSM faggot. Which is strange coming from someone with an Irish name, seeing as how they'd been doing just that for centuries.

  71. Anon[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @Percival

    “unhealthy eating habits and excessive energy intake in the growing up phase”
     
    This sounds rather preposterous. Everything I have ever read on the subject suggest that refined foods and food abundance characteristic of modern diet tend to promote growth to one's genetic maximum potential.
    If anything, it is the opposite dietary trend that is responsible for this growth stagnation: vegetarian and vegan fads, for instance. Now, technically if such diets result in nutritional deficits or if they can be shown to stunt growth ever so slightly they should be considered unhealthy. But generally such diets, and low-calorie diets in general, are considered healthy in a colloquial sense.

    Replies: @Anon, @al gore rhythms

    Strongly agreed. Meat and milk intake per capita has sharply deflined since the 1940s, producing generation after generation of weak fucktards. American kids in the 1800s got 5-15 pounds of meat daily, we had a booming leather industry, and leather was much higher quality. They took away our birthright to kill animals with the women vote, now the cattle ranching towns shed young people and become ghost towns.. Unused pastureland abounds in the great plains. Field after field of wasted potential.

  72. @Anon
    @HammerJack

    Uh you do know context matters don’t you?

    Replies: @El Dato, @bomag, @Bill

    What’s the context and how does it matter?

  73. At the start of the 19th century they were small by European standards and only started to shoot up in the 1840s.

    This is when the Dutch started stealing the wealth of other nations (Indonesia, Surinam, Curacao, etc.) in earnest so Dutch children started eating more and the Indonesian children started eating less.

    • Disagree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @2BR
    @Jack D

    They did extract massive profits but the big height growth spurt was post war, without the colonies. And they became even richer without the colonies (thanks a bit to the USA protecting them).

    At least we can enjoy the beautiful canals and public buildings and polders in part paid for by those profits. Same as Vienna, London, Brussels, etc. You can say this for pre-WW1 Europe - they may have extracted money from their Empires but they really knew how to build the Metropolitan centers. IMO nothing comes close. Certainly not the brutalist junk we get.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  74. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Bill P

    The town of which you speak reminds me of my Sioux County hometown to an almost eerie degree.

    Replies: @Bill P

    Same deal with the Reformed churches on every block and the kitschy windmill storefronts?

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Bill P

    Precisely!

  75. @pyrrhus
    What I have seen among girls in the white middle and upper middle class is a huge explosion of heights above 6'...This is evident even among the Junior HS group..and there were two female teachers in the school where I taught who were at least 6'5", which was unheard of a generation ago....Anybody got an explanation for this?

    Replies: @oliver elkington

    Organic food diets? though i generally grew up on a lot of organic food it did not do me any favours height wise being of plain average height for Britain myself. What i do notice is this very real height disparity in different social classes, upper class girls are often 2 or 3 inches taller than working class girls and the same with the men too but perhaps less pronounced height differences.

  76. Ed’s Auto Reviews is a fun YouTube channel from a Dutchman. It’s hard to imagine his countrymen fitting into these things, but 6’5″ Basil Fawlty drove a Mini, so maybe it’s doable:

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Reg Cæsar

    I knew a 6’8” guy who drove a Volkswagen Beetle.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D

    , @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Basil Fawlty drove an Austin 1100...or rather he thrashed it with a tree branch because it wouldn't start.

  77. @El Dato
    @Anon

    Definitely. When you are "feeling the spirit" the mask mandate is lifted.

    Replies: @Cortes

    Does the Dutch cap have an effect?

  78. @Reg Cæsar
    Ed's Auto Reviews is a fun YouTube channel from a Dutchman. It's hard to imagine his countrymen fitting into these things, but 6'5" Basil Fawlty drove a Mini, so maybe it's doable:

    https://youtu.be/FxQHMdTn0RQ

    https://youtu.be/yIBf9LocuOw

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Anonymous

    I knew a 6’8” guy who drove a Volkswagen Beetle.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Stan Adams


    I knew a 6’8” guy who drove a Volkswagen Beetle.
     
    With a sunroof?

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    , @Jack D
    @Stan Adams

    Beetles (original or new) were not particularly low- around 5' high, a couple of inches taller than a modern day full sized (or was passes for full sized nowadays) sedan such as a Ford Fusion or a Chrysler 300. A Mazda Miata is a foot lower.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  79. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t think I ever heard that the Dutch were exceptionally tall until the 1990s. It was not a stereotype when I was young, as far as I can remember.

    Perhaps the Dutch are taller than other Europeans since early Ages. The older reference about this issue which I remember, comes from Tacitus who said that the Dutch boys were already tall for the Roman standards. Some Roman soldiers have found the Batavian boys sexy. So, they wanted to sexuality abuse the boys , contributing for the famous Batavian Revolt :

    “Batavians of military age were being conscripted. The levy was by its nature a heavy burden, but it was rendered still more oppressive by the greed and profligacy of the recruiting sergeants, who called up the old and unfit in order to exact a bribe for their release, while young, good-looking lads (for children are normally quite tall among the Batavians) were dragged off to gratify their lust. This caused bitter resentment, and the ringleaders of the prearranged revolt succeeded in getting their countrymen to refuse service”

  80. @Jack D

    At the start of the 19th century they were small by European standards and only started to shoot up in the 1840s.
     
    This is when the Dutch started stealing the wealth of other nations (Indonesia, Surinam, Curacao, etc.) in earnest so Dutch children started eating more and the Indonesian children started eating less.

    https://www.wowshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/main-qimg-54fa1476722429577f6814eaacdfa04f.jpeg

    Replies: @2BR

    They did extract massive profits but the big height growth spurt was post war, without the colonies. And they became even richer without the colonies (thanks a bit to the USA protecting them).

    At least we can enjoy the beautiful canals and public buildings and polders in part paid for by those profits. Same as Vienna, London, Brussels, etc. You can say this for pre-WW1 Europe – they may have extracted money from their Empires but they really knew how to build the Metropolitan centers. IMO nothing comes close. Certainly not the brutalist junk we get.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @2BR

    I'm pretty sure that post was satire.

    The 19th century was when industrialization took off in Europe. Colonies actually became less valuable in this period than they had been in earlier centuries. Coal and iron were what mattered, not agricultural land. The rise of Prussia/Germany in this period, despite not having an empire, is a good example.

  81. As we keep adding Central Americans in the 100s of 1,0000s Americans are going to “shrink” too.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
  82. Just send this entire post to the round-file, Steve. The Dutch are not particularly tall to begin with and the entire premise is absurd.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Can we agree that the sky is blue? I realize that people here are skeptical about everything but it's getting to the point where it's ridiculous. Every attempt to measure this ranks the Netherlands at or near the tallest average height.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-height-by-country

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/17/dutch-are-worlds-tallest-people-but-theyre-shrinking-study-shows

    https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200823-why-are-the-dutch-so-tall



    What's your source?

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

  83. I thought this was going to be about a psychiatrist from the Netherlands.

  84. @Bill P
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Same deal with the Reformed churches on every block and the kitschy windmill storefronts?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Precisely!

  85. @Stan Adams
    @Reg Cæsar

    I knew a 6’8” guy who drove a Volkswagen Beetle.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D

    I knew a 6’8” guy who drove a Volkswagen Beetle.

    With a sunroof?

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Reg Cæsar

    No, just a standard classic model. He was all legs.

  86. @Anon
    @Pat Hannagan

    Interesting, you decry drugs and sex but post a 1970s Lynyrd Skynryd concert.


    Can't have your cake and eat it, too. 1970s were peak drugs, sex, and social degeneracy, with concerts like that one taking the lead. Whole lotta PCP, jack daniels, duct tape and murder weapons at that show.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Interesting, you decry drugs and sex but post a 1970s Lynyrd Skynryd concert. Can’t have your cake and eat it, too.

    • Agree: Leonard Skinner

    Well, his point was that the Dutch should have submitted to a BDSM faggot. Which is strange coming from someone with an Irish name, seeing as how they’d been doing just that for centuries.

  87. The taller the better, as the ‘low lands’ sink beneath rising sea-levels.

  88. @Intelligent Dasein
    Just send this entire post to the round-file, Steve. The Dutch are not particularly tall to begin with and the entire premise is absurd.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Can we agree that the sky is blue? I realize that people here are skeptical about everything but it’s getting to the point where it’s ridiculous. Every attempt to measure this ranks the Netherlands at or near the tallest average height.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-height-by-country

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/17/dutch-are-worlds-tallest-people-but-theyre-shrinking-study-shows

    https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200823-why-are-the-dutch-so-tall

    What’s your source?

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Jack D

    My source is my personal experience. All the Dutchmen I've ever met in my life have been about 5'10" or shorter. I had a Dutch math teacher once (whom I was quite fond of) who was actually rather small and shrimpy.

    Yes, this is a personal anecdote and you can make of that what you will, but it's not much less scientific than was the survey in the OP. If you're going to rank countries by height, obviously somebody has to be number one, and the Netherlands consists of a mere 17 million people. It isn't that hard to skew the averages with such a small population (note that the second tallest country, Montenegro, has a population of 600,000). This does not mean that a group of Dutchmen would be noticeably taller than a group of Germans or Englishmen with a matching socioeconomic profile. Asking "Why are the Dutch so tall?" as if there were some real fact there requiring an explanation rather than just statistical noise, is specious.

    Replies: @Auld Alliance

  89. @Stan Adams
    @Reg Cæsar

    I knew a 6’8” guy who drove a Volkswagen Beetle.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D

    Beetles (original or new) were not particularly low- around 5′ high, a couple of inches taller than a modern day full sized (or was passes for full sized nowadays) sedan such as a Ford Fusion or a Chrysler 300. A Mazda Miata is a foot lower.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Jack D

    Headroom is an issue for me. I'm about 6'2" (as is my father), but I have a very long torso and I barely fit in many cars.

    I used to have a 2011 Nissan Altima - not a small car. In the morning, when my neck was stiff, it was almost physically painful for me to try to squeeze through the door.

    People ask me why I ride the bus and I tell them (half-seriously) that I need the extra space.

  90. @Jack D
    @Stan Adams

    Beetles (original or new) were not particularly low- around 5' high, a couple of inches taller than a modern day full sized (or was passes for full sized nowadays) sedan such as a Ford Fusion or a Chrysler 300. A Mazda Miata is a foot lower.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Headroom is an issue for me. I’m about 6’2″ (as is my father), but I have a very long torso and I barely fit in many cars.

    I used to have a 2011 Nissan Altima – not a small car. In the morning, when my neck was stiff, it was almost physically painful for me to try to squeeze through the door.

    People ask me why I ride the bus and I tell them (half-seriously) that I need the extra space.

  91. @Reg Cæsar
    @Stan Adams


    I knew a 6’8” guy who drove a Volkswagen Beetle.
     
    With a sunroof?

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    No, just a standard classic model. He was all legs.

  92. @Redneck farmer
    @Rob

    Northern Europeans pay higher taxes than we do for all that "free stuff".

    Replies: @Rob

    Well, considering that people’s highest-earning years (white-collar) are in their late thirties to fifties, and women’s fertility starts to decline at thirty, and the decline accelerates considerably at 35, and a man’s sperm starts to accumulate more mutations with age and no starting threshold, do you see any problems? Is there maybe a mismatch between reproductive age and “afford stuff for kids age”?

    Europeans and Americans pay fairly high tax rates. The rich are an exception. Not successful doctors rich, their income is income. They pay taxes on that, it’s one of the reasons doctors vote Republican, so the government would cut the dividend tax. Rich Americans, like Elon Musk, pay very little in tax. He has almost no income, you see. How does he eat? He borrows money from banks against the value of Tesla stock. Every day, he goes deeper into debt. It would be unfair to make such a desperate man pay taxes. Maybe, one day, assuming Tesla does catch fire like a giant lithium battery, Musk’s heirs might pay an inheritance tax. But Musk himself! Nope. Taxes are for you.

    Americans need to pay more taxes. If we don’t what are we going to do when China has hollowed us into a husk and stops paying for our government? Your tax cuts are going to be paid for in blood.

    From 1965 on, American-Americans get little value for their taxes in many places where wages are the highest. We both know the reason, and in America, government spending on amenities lowers the taxpayers’ quality of life. In Copenhagen, white, Danish, I mean, parents can send their kids to public schools. The kids come home stab-wound-free and have often learned things that lead to thriving in a first-world society. Try that in NYC. Or a good chunk of the South. Portland is currently experiencing the wonders of being taxed more to finance its ethnic cleansing. They can buy or rent comfortable though modest homes and apartments. American homes have yards that take an army of Guatemalans to maintain, then Americans have to pay a fortune to buy a house in a neighborhood that is not full of Juan Mower’s niños.

    Much like the American government cannot legally restrict your speech, they outsource that to the tech industry, in many ways we are both taxed by the government to provide a service to others, but we pay companies yet more to provide the services to us. I will bet (have not looked it up) that Americans’ income tax + health insurance premium, especially when including employer-paid portion, is higher than Danes’ tax rate for the vast majority of workers.

    Compared to Americans, Eunos live in a frigid Utopia. A Eutopia, if you will. Eunos are probably not at replacement fertility, but they do better than Italians and other, um, Eusos. Granted, the fact that France’s climate is more appealing to third worlders than Oslo’s is not part of a brilliant Norwegian Stay Norwegian master plan, but they can utilize the cold.

    They don’t know the horrors of third worlders shoved into the modern world, so they mat throw it away out of the typical mind fallacy but they have it.

    You might say, “well, north sea oil.” but the US producers huge amounts of coal, oil, and nat gas. Norway has a sovereign wealth fund. In America, all the money goes into very few private hands. But don’t worry, they don’t pay much in taxes. You do, though, to support their servants. Norway has sovereign wealth, but we have an incomprehensible national debt.

    Low taxes and military spending are killing us. The fear that it’s all about to fall apart that right-wingers (and i) have? Most of you don’t want to try and make things better, more stable. You just buy guns cuz muh individualism.

    Now, you might make the argument that making America a Northern European nation is no longer an option, barring great unpleasantness. I have no counter to that. But we pay so much to companies to have a small government. Like what was once a translator’s job, the only translator for that language with a security clearance, I forget the language, was once a 70k a year job. They eliminated her position, and now she works for a contractor. The contract is around 150k a year. Every few years, the contract expires, and a new contractor wins it and they hire her. Every job that was once a bureaucrat drawing a salary is now a contractor drawing more than that bureaucrat ever cost, with less accountability and now someone pulling millions in contracts who can bribe politicians in a way the federal unions could not. Fed unions- could they offer former Senators board seats at 50k/year plus expenses?

    I’m not saying their way should be our way, but I’d bet Norway will be a Norwegian nation with zero years of civil war between 2021 and 2071. Would I bet the same about America being an American nation with…not really, would you?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Rob


    From 1965 on, American-Americans get little value for their taxes in many places where wages are the highest. We both know the reason, and in America, government spending on amenities lowers the taxpayers’ quality of life. In Copenhagen, white, Danish, I mean, parents can send their kids to public schools. The kids come home stab-wound-free and have often learned things that lead to thriving in a first-world society. Try that in NYC. Or a good chunk of the South. Portland is currently experiencing the wonders of being taxed more to finance its ethnic cleansing. They can buy or rent comfortable though modest homes and apartments. American homes have yards that take an army of Guatemalans to maintain, then Americans have to pay a fortune to buy a house in a neighborhood that is not full of Juan Mower’s niños.
     
    You have to have national consciousness:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1FyWZYRLng

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLcBWq5kjUc

    However, we like it good old way....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBwDvcxA_L8
  93. @Erik Sieven
    @Antipodean Coward

    I also doubt that the Dutch are really taller than e.g. Northern Germans. I would guess people are equally tall from the Netherlands along the coast of the North Sea and the Baltic sea up Northern Russia. Anyway people from the Dinaric Alps seem to be taller

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Dumbo

    Nah, the Dutch are taller. I’ve been relatively recently to Amsterdam, and I can attest that they are still tall, even compared to other Northern Europeans, and they do not seem to be “shrinking”.

    However, they do have a lot of mulattos from the Antilles or Suriname or wherever, and that’s probably bringing the average down.

  94. @Reg Cæsar
    Ed's Auto Reviews is a fun YouTube channel from a Dutchman. It's hard to imagine his countrymen fitting into these things, but 6'5" Basil Fawlty drove a Mini, so maybe it's doable:

    https://youtu.be/FxQHMdTn0RQ

    https://youtu.be/yIBf9LocuOw

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Anonymous

    Basil Fawlty drove an Austin 1100…or rather he thrashed it with a tree branch because it wouldn’t start.

  95. @Anonymous
    @Mackerel Sky

    The Dutch drink a lot of milk. Milk consumption significantly increases insulin, growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor. Cow's milk is designed to turn a calf into 2,000 lb behemoth.

    "Milk is not just food but most likely a genetic transfection system activating mTORC1 signaling for postnatal growth"

    https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1475-2891-12-103


    This review presents milk as a materno-neonatal relay system functioning by transfer of preferential amino acids, which increase plasma levels of glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP), glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), insulin, growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) for mTORC1 activation. Importantly, milk exosomes, which regularly contain microRNA-21, most likely represent a genetic transfection system enhancing mTORC1-driven metabolic processes.
     

    Replies: @Mackerel Sky

    Excellent, thank you.

  96. @Rob
    @Redneck farmer

    Well, considering that people’s highest-earning years (white-collar) are in their late thirties to fifties, and women’s fertility starts to decline at thirty, and the decline accelerates considerably at 35, and a man’s sperm starts to accumulate more mutations with age and no starting threshold, do you see any problems? Is there maybe a mismatch between reproductive age and “afford stuff for kids age”?

    Europeans and Americans pay fairly high tax rates. The rich are an exception. Not successful doctors rich, their income is income. They pay taxes on that, it’s one of the reasons doctors vote Republican, so the government would cut the dividend tax. Rich Americans, like Elon Musk, pay very little in tax. He has almost no income, you see. How does he eat? He borrows money from banks against the value of Tesla stock. Every day, he goes deeper into debt. It would be unfair to make such a desperate man pay taxes. Maybe, one day, assuming Tesla does catch fire like a giant lithium battery, Musk’s heirs might pay an inheritance tax. But Musk himself! Nope. Taxes are for you.

    Americans need to pay more taxes. If we don’t what are we going to do when China has hollowed us into a husk and stops paying for our government? Your tax cuts are going to be paid for in blood.

    From 1965 on, American-Americans get little value for their taxes in many places where wages are the highest. We both know the reason, and in America, government spending on amenities lowers the taxpayers' quality of life. In Copenhagen, white, Danish, I mean, parents can send their kids to public schools. The kids come home stab-wound-free and have often learned things that lead to thriving in a first-world society. Try that in NYC. Or a good chunk of the South. Portland is currently experiencing the wonders of being taxed more to finance its ethnic cleansing. They can buy or rent comfortable though modest homes and apartments. American homes have yards that take an army of Guatemalans to maintain, then Americans have to pay a fortune to buy a house in a neighborhood that is not full of Juan Mower’s niños.

    Much like the American government cannot legally restrict your speech, they outsource that to the tech industry, in many ways we are both taxed by the government to provide a service to others, but we pay companies yet more to provide the services to us. I will bet (have not looked it up) that Americans’ income tax + health insurance premium, especially when including employer-paid portion, is higher than Danes’ tax rate for the vast majority of workers.

    Compared to Americans, Eunos live in a frigid Utopia. A Eutopia, if you will. Eunos are probably not at replacement fertility, but they do better than Italians and other, um, Eusos. Granted, the fact that France’s climate is more appealing to third worlders than Oslo’s is not part of a brilliant Norwegian Stay Norwegian master plan, but they can utilize the cold.

    They don’t know the horrors of third worlders shoved into the modern world, so they mat throw it away out of the typical mind fallacy but they have it.

    You might say, “well, north sea oil.” but the US producers huge amounts of coal, oil, and nat gas. Norway has a sovereign wealth fund. In America, all the money goes into very few private hands. But don’t worry, they don’t pay much in taxes. You do, though, to support their servants. Norway has sovereign wealth, but we have an incomprehensible national debt.

    Low taxes and military spending are killing us. The fear that it’s all about to fall apart that right-wingers (and i) have? Most of you don’t want to try and make things better, more stable. You just buy guns cuz muh individualism.

    Now, you might make the argument that making America a Northern European nation is no longer an option, barring great unpleasantness. I have no counter to that. But we pay so much to companies to have a small government. Like what was once a translator's job, the only translator for that language with a security clearance, I forget the language, was once a 70k a year job. They eliminated her position, and now she works for a contractor. The contract is around 150k a year. Every few years, the contract expires, and a new contractor wins it and they hire her. Every job that was once a bureaucrat drawing a salary is now a contractor drawing more than that bureaucrat ever cost, with less accountability and now someone pulling millions in contracts who can bribe politicians in a way the federal unions could not. Fed unions- could they offer former Senators board seats at 50k/year plus expenses?

    I’m not saying their way should be our way, but I'd bet Norway will be a Norwegian nation with zero years of civil war between 2021 and 2071. Would I bet the same about America being an American nation with...not really, would you?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    From 1965 on, American-Americans get little value for their taxes in many places where wages are the highest. We both know the reason, and in America, government spending on amenities lowers the taxpayers’ quality of life. In Copenhagen, white, Danish, I mean, parents can send their kids to public schools. The kids come home stab-wound-free and have often learned things that lead to thriving in a first-world society. Try that in NYC. Or a good chunk of the South. Portland is currently experiencing the wonders of being taxed more to finance its ethnic cleansing. They can buy or rent comfortable though modest homes and apartments. American homes have yards that take an army of Guatemalans to maintain, then Americans have to pay a fortune to buy a house in a neighborhood that is not full of Juan Mower’s niños.

    You have to have national consciousness:

    However, we like it good old way….

  97. @Maciano
    @Antipodean Coward

    I’m Dutch, 100%, though short: 1m75

    It’s rly true that my countrymen are tall, but immigrants like Moroccans have also gotten way bigger since their parents got here.

    I doubt that the ethnic Dutch are getting shorter. We rly are a tall nation. Intermarriage is up, so it cld be that Antilleans, Surinamese and Asian women are influencing the gene pool. Muslims do not bc muslims hardly ever intermarry

    Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)

    There was a tall Dutchman named Thor
    Who married a girl from Timor.
    Short kids were okay,
    But what turned Thor’s hair gray
    Was they couldn’t find square root of four.

  98. I met a Dutch cousin of mine for the first time and he commented “you’re so short” (I am a tad over 5’11”). He is about 6’3″. I pointed out that I have shrunk about an inch (I’m an old guy) and was once almost exactly the average Dutch height. BTW, the average Union soldier in he Civil War was 5’7” tall and weighed 136 lb. WWI soldiers were still 5’7” but had ballooned to 141 lb. Large numbers of men over 6″ tall and weighing over 200 lb are a fairly recent phenomenon. Even in my HS days, a football lineman weighing 220 lb was considered huge. Now those over 230 lb are quite common.

  99. @Percival

    “unhealthy eating habits and excessive energy intake in the growing up phase”
     
    This sounds rather preposterous. Everything I have ever read on the subject suggest that refined foods and food abundance characteristic of modern diet tend to promote growth to one's genetic maximum potential.
    If anything, it is the opposite dietary trend that is responsible for this growth stagnation: vegetarian and vegan fads, for instance. Now, technically if such diets result in nutritional deficits or if they can be shown to stunt growth ever so slightly they should be considered unhealthy. But generally such diets, and low-calorie diets in general, are considered healthy in a colloquial sense.

    Replies: @Anon, @al gore rhythms

    But wouldn’t vegans prefer it if we are all hobbit-sized? The smaller people are, the less Earth’s precious resources are used up.

  100. @Jack D
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Can we agree that the sky is blue? I realize that people here are skeptical about everything but it's getting to the point where it's ridiculous. Every attempt to measure this ranks the Netherlands at or near the tallest average height.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-height-by-country

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/17/dutch-are-worlds-tallest-people-but-theyre-shrinking-study-shows

    https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200823-why-are-the-dutch-so-tall



    What's your source?

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    My source is my personal experience. All the Dutchmen I’ve ever met in my life have been about 5’10” or shorter. I had a Dutch math teacher once (whom I was quite fond of) who was actually rather small and shrimpy.

    Yes, this is a personal anecdote and you can make of that what you will, but it’s not much less scientific than was the survey in the OP. If you’re going to rank countries by height, obviously somebody has to be number one, and the Netherlands consists of a mere 17 million people. It isn’t that hard to skew the averages with such a small population (note that the second tallest country, Montenegro, has a population of 600,000). This does not mean that a group of Dutchmen would be noticeably taller than a group of Germans or Englishmen with a matching socioeconomic profile. Asking “Why are the Dutch so tall?” as if there were some real fact there requiring an explanation rather than just statistical noise, is specious.

    • Replies: @Auld Alliance
    @Intelligent Dasein


    the Netherlands consists of a mere 17 million people. It isn’t that hard to skew the averages with such a small population (note that the second tallest country, Montenegro, has a population of 600,000).
     
    You seem to be confusing samples and populations.

    A very small sample in relation to a population could give a sample average that is not close to the population average.

    So if I measure the height of 5 Dutch males, find their average to be 1.74 m and declare that therefore the average Dutch male is about 1.74m tall, I may well be significantly wrong.

    But that would hold for populations of 17 million or 600,000 or that of China.

    You also say :-

    If you’re going to rank countries by height, obviously somebody has to be number one
     
    Yes, you are right here - congratulations - but what people are saying is that that somebody is the Dutch - which you dispute. I suggest you go there - I have been there several times and they are very tall.
  101. In the Opposite (and Orthogonal) kind of news closer to home:

    2 charged with murder in death of woman who underwent illegal butt-lift procedure at Encino home

    https://abc7.com/butt-lift-plastic-surgery-murder-mother/11031813/

  102. @Intelligent Dasein
    @Jack D

    My source is my personal experience. All the Dutchmen I've ever met in my life have been about 5'10" or shorter. I had a Dutch math teacher once (whom I was quite fond of) who was actually rather small and shrimpy.

    Yes, this is a personal anecdote and you can make of that what you will, but it's not much less scientific than was the survey in the OP. If you're going to rank countries by height, obviously somebody has to be number one, and the Netherlands consists of a mere 17 million people. It isn't that hard to skew the averages with such a small population (note that the second tallest country, Montenegro, has a population of 600,000). This does not mean that a group of Dutchmen would be noticeably taller than a group of Germans or Englishmen with a matching socioeconomic profile. Asking "Why are the Dutch so tall?" as if there were some real fact there requiring an explanation rather than just statistical noise, is specious.

    Replies: @Auld Alliance

    the Netherlands consists of a mere 17 million people. It isn’t that hard to skew the averages with such a small population (note that the second tallest country, Montenegro, has a population of 600,000).

    You seem to be confusing samples and populations.

    A very small sample in relation to a population could give a sample average that is not close to the population average.

    So if I measure the height of 5 Dutch males, find their average to be 1.74 m and declare that therefore the average Dutch male is about 1.74m tall, I may well be significantly wrong.

    But that would hold for populations of 17 million or 600,000 or that of China.

    You also say :-

    If you’re going to rank countries by height, obviously somebody has to be number one

    Yes, you are right here – congratulations – but what people are saying is that that somebody is the Dutch – which you dispute. I suggest you go there – I have been there several times and they are very tall.

  103. Here is a tiny anecdote for the readers.

    My oldest son is about 6 feet tall. About four years ago we took a long-distance KLM flight to Amsterdam, so that meant it was a big plane and hence a large complement of flight attendants, although only a limited number of Dutch passengers.

    At one point he said to me “Dad, I do not know any females my height or taller, and I rarely see any. I have seen two or three among the flight attendants!”

  104. @Bill P
    When I was last in Dutchland I didn't feel short (I'm 6'1"), but the number of people 6'4" or so and above was like nothing I'd ever seen before. Also, a lot of American guys would have to piss up to use their urinals.

    There's a Dutch community up the road from me by the Canadian border. Lots of tall, tan blondes walking around up there. I'm not going to complain about that.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @ThreeCranes

    Lynden?

  105. @Harry Baldwin
    @Polistra

    Americans have been getting shorter too–since the 1980s.

    And we as a nation have have a lower average IQ, also thanks to NAM immigrants.

    Replies: @AceDeuce

    It’s no accident that the SAT score peak was/is 1962.

  106. @Anonymous
    @Felix Krull

    So what? We can still destroy your country with just one nuke. Hell, not even a nuke, a conventional strike on the dykes would destroy it.

    Replies: @Badger Down

    The US nearly destroyed itself with one dyke, but the nation voted for Trump.

  107. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @2BR
    @Jack D

    They did extract massive profits but the big height growth spurt was post war, without the colonies. And they became even richer without the colonies (thanks a bit to the USA protecting them).

    At least we can enjoy the beautiful canals and public buildings and polders in part paid for by those profits. Same as Vienna, London, Brussels, etc. You can say this for pre-WW1 Europe - they may have extracted money from their Empires but they really knew how to build the Metropolitan centers. IMO nothing comes close. Certainly not the brutalist junk we get.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I’m pretty sure that post was satire.

    The 19th century was when industrialization took off in Europe. Colonies actually became less valuable in this period than they had been in earlier centuries. Coal and iron were what mattered, not agricultural land. The rise of Prussia/Germany in this period, despite not having an empire, is a good example.

  108. @Pat Hannagan
    @Pat Hannagan

    You know what's ironic?

    If the Dutch had lost the war they'd still be in control of their own country today, regardless of their height and what amount of moral justification they measure by it.

    The legacy of wwii runs deepest in America which was destined to have itself overrun and destroyed with drugs and sex.

    In the 70s America was 100% White

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIWDmmqZzY

    Today, without any threats from abroad it's a shell of the stock which "won" wwii.

    The premise of Unz.com is not getting to the bottom of this conundrum.

    Replies: @Anon, @Malcolm X-Lax

    And that’s in Oakland! But it reminds me of the Bay Area I grew up in. BTW, my sister-in-law, who is now 60, is one of the cute blonds you see from the back.

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