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Last month I posted about the egregious cancellation of tenured professor Bryan J. Pesta, who was fired by Cleveland State U. in effect for co-authoring a landmark scientific article on racial admixture and IQ in 2019. (I put considerable effort into a Taki’s Magazine column explicating in less daunting prose a 2021 study that replicated Pesta’s 2019 findings on the even more impressive ABCD database.)

The relationship between the race gap in IQ and DNA has been quite possibly the single most contentious issue in the human sciences since Arthur Jensen’s 1969 Harvard Education Review article. Pesta’s career was targeted for destruction for his role in publishing what might eventually go down in history as the single biggest step forward toward resolving this great debate between scientific titans such as Jensen, Richard Herrnstein, and Charles Murray vs. Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Lewontin, Christopher Jencks, and James Flynn.

Charles Murray and myself have been trying to alert academics that Pesta’s case shows that their ancient right of tenure is no longer secure. As Beria liked to tell Stalin about his stewardship of the NKVD, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”

Dr. Pesta has long tried to maintain a low profile, but having been deprived of his income by violation of his tenure, he has established a Give Send Go account at https://www.givesendgo.com/G9END .

Dear Potential Donors,

My name is Bryan J. Pesta. I used to be a tenured full professor of management at Cleveland State University (CSU), with top departmental seniority. As a student there many years ago, I’ve also earned three degrees (one BA and two master’s degrees) from CSU. In fact, I have a near continuous presence (as faculty or student) at this school dating back to 1986 (I am old).

This all changed on March 4, 2022, as CSU terminated my (tenured) employment with them.

They “convicted” me of conducting and publishing unethical and racist research regarding my scientific explorations into why Blacks and Whites score differently—on average—when taking IQ tests.

Note, it’s trivially simple to find very smart Blacks and not so smart Whites. It’s frustrating that people have trashed my work and reputation by alleging I believe that ALL members of some race group are smarter than ALL members of some other group.

Note, I had been studying this topic at CSU since 2006. The school never expressed any concerns about the nature of my research until recently. In fact, CSU regularly awarded me (yearly) merit pay wage increases, specifically because of my research.

Note, the average IQ differences in question here are incredibly well-documented by lots of quality data, going back to at least World War I. The differences are also unfortunately rather large, but they predict very important social outcomes (e.g., education rates, income rates, crime rates, and even numerous measures of physical and mental health). As such, I believe we have ethical and moral obligations to figure out what is going on here. I’ve also argued elsewhere, that figuring this out would dramatically improve human well-being for all.

That said, the actual causes of these differences (i.e., genetic factors, environmental factors, test bias, racism, etc.) remain unknown.

Importantly, CSU did not outright call me a racist for studying all this (though many other students and academics both internal and external to CSU certainly have!). Instead, the school hid behind numerous pretextual accusations that I had mishandled sensitive genetic data, or otherwise committed “academic research misconduct” regarding a specific article that colleagues and I published in 2019 ( https://www.mdpi.com/2624-8611/1/1/34 ).

At one point, fully 21 different allegations of academic research misconduct were “thrown at the wall” against me. I was able defend most of these allegations, but precisely four of them “stuck” with CSU, and I was ultimately fired. However, I will show that CSU’s rationale for these four charges was inane.

Unfortunately, the allegations against me are also very technical and full of jargon. This makes my case rather difficult to comprehend, especially if one lacks knowledge about how scientific research proceeds. I won’t get into the weeds now, but I will soon add a link to my complaint in federal court, once it is officially filed.

Not surprisingly, I have suffered rather severe financial and emotional consequences because of CSU’s illegal firing of me. I am also hated there, and I am completely unemployable in academics anywhere in the USA.

I would sincerely appreciate any financial assistance you might provide here. I’m confident I will prevail, but I need to survive as my suit progresses through the system. In sum, money is nice for sure, but this case is squarely about academic freedom and first amendment rights. Please consider helping me defend myself, and our constitution.

Sincerely,

Bryan J. Pesta

He says of his GiveSendGo account:

All donations would be completely anonymous, except I will get the donor’s email address in case disputes arise (“I pledged $100 but you took $1,000!” etc,). I would appreciate whatever interested donors are willing to give.

Many, many thanks!

 
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  1. Thea says:

    https://www.kent.edu/polisci/liam-obrien

    He is fan of Marcuse and “interrogating” systems. He has raised a lot of money for left wing causes he calls charity. So average low testosterone American communist. No obvious Jewish links.

  2. anonymous[115] • Disclaimer says:

    A Chinese university should come to the rescue and give him a professorship to demonstrate freedom of speech in China. As long as you don’t criticize the Chinese government, you can say what you want in China. It sounds like a Yakov Smirnoff joke about having the right to mock Nixon in the Soviet Union but as the West becomes more totalitarian, free speech in China might become vital for HBD. Plus Chinese need more research on Han-Uighur average differences in intelligence, also about 1 SD apart.

    Commentator Supply and Demand is a US academic in China. Can you give any tips?

  3. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:

    Good to know the local Republican party in Ohio has its priorities straight in trying to ban abortion! That’s obviously more important than protecting freedom of speech on college campuses.

  4. Someone mentioned that Netflix put this documentary on YT.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  5. i maintain my position that this development of communists running almost everything in the US is a civilizational level threat with regard to STEM, in a way it was not during the Cold War.

    almost all the original STEM comes out of the places now under communist control, whereas 100 years ago to 30 years ago, very little original STEM came out of the places under communist control. so previously, communists were only holding back STEM in their own country. now communists are holding back STEM for the entire planet.

  6. Ralph L says:

    (“I pledged $100 but you took $1,000!” etc,)

    Not the phrase I would have chosen here, even in jest. I hope he’s suing for punitive damages, too.

  7. J1234 says:

    their ancient right of tenure is no longer secure

    I recently asked a (retired) conservative professor about the nature of tenure following a presentation he gave for a group I belong to. (His topic for discussion was the negative consequences of DIE policies…among other things.) My understanding was that tenure is to protect academics against retribution for taking unpopular positions. He said that’s correct, but many people misunderstand the nuanced nature of tenure. It isn’t a guarantee against termination, but a guarantee of due process before any termination takes place. Unfortunately, “due process” sounds sufficiently vague and malleable in this context to keep from being very reassuring to true academic iconoclasts.

    • Replies: @JackOH
  8. anon[307] • Disclaimer says:

    …scientific titans such as Jensen, Richard Herrnstein, and Charles Murray vs. Stephen Jay Gould, Richard Lewontin, Christopher Jencks, and James Flynn…

    none of these people are even scientists steve, let alone “scientific titans”. you need to go to nazi school hard.

    the people who got this greaseball fired are just as stupid as you steve. you’re two sides of the same coin made of dung.

    you’re both MORONS.

    die partei ist trump. trump is the party. hail victory!

    • Troll: kaganovitch
    • Replies: @notbe mk 2
    , @BuelahMan
  9. Bobbo says:

    Alas, Give Send Go’s list of donors to the Canadian convoy protest was hacked earlier this year, and leaked, and employers got pressured to fire their employees who gave money to a wrong-think cause. And businesses had their

    I fear this cause might have the same result.

  10. Speaking of Charles Murray, physicist, Lawrence Krauss, who is a hardcore liberal, had Murray on his “Origin’s” podcast to discuss natural biological differences between humans. Interesting quote:

    *”I must confess that I had a kind of a smug reaction to the condemnation you got for your book, The Bell Curve. As a natural liberal I found your statements abhorrent, and I was very pleased with the negative reactions that you got. But then, I realized that the people criticizing you had not even read your book, or given you c chance to state the logic and evidence for your case. That is anathema to science.” That was when I decided to take your side as a scientific purist.*

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Dieter Kief
  11. Maybe he can tap these academics.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/sam-bankman-frieds-parents-bought-bahamas-vacation-home-among-121-million-ftx-property

    They’re not short of a buck or two.

    Pesta needs to choose his offspring more carefully.

  12. That said, the actual causes of these differences (i.e., genetic factors, environmental factors, test bias, racism, etc.) remain unknown.

    Test bias? Since WWI? Seriously?

    What’s the point in this guy’s trying to weasel out of the truth now? News flash for you, Dr. Pesta: You’re already fired! Yes, those are weasel words. You know damn well that there are genetic factors*, and you know that their knowing you know is why these people fired you. Saying “genetics” does not give them that right, either, though you are acting like it might.

    And, this is not a 1st Amendment issue. This is about what tenure is supposed to mean. I could see taking up that part of it with a lawyer. Then again, as Mr. Sailer, who does have the guts to say “yes, genetics matter”, quotes from that one Communist, “show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime.”

    Oh, are you people STILL gun shy about calling the types that fired Dr. Petra Communists?

    .

    * I mean, would you do this work for 15 years without having any theory portion to your efforts? Just getting correlations aren’t Professor type work.

  13. @anonymous

    What about Japan or Korea? India?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  14. @anonymous

    Commentator Supply and Demand is a US academic in China.

    Yes, if by “academic” you mean teaching English for a thousand bucks a month and mooching off his rich CCP-adjacent Father-in-Law.

    I like the guy when he’s not wasting his time trolling. He’s a little bit like ex-URer Fred Reed though – it seems ex-pats get off on bad-mouthing every single thing about the country they bailed out of. It makes them feel better about their decisions. That’s understandable.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @anon
  15. Currahee says:
    @Anon

    Well, yes of course. Don’t you understand that we need more black babies?

  16. Renard says:
    @anonymous

    Commentator Supply and Demand is a US academic in China. Can you give any tips?

    Why yes, yes I can: he’s an absolute bozo.

    • Agree: Lurker
  17. @Achmed E. Newman

    Excuse me, Achmed, if you please, but it looks to me almost as if you’d be – ldt’s say: a tad too harsh on Mr. Pesta.
    If you don’t mind – take a risk and make this little personal experiment: Look in the mirror, Achmed: How much of bravery do you see?
    (As an ageing protestant I may even feel tempted to think of Matthew 7,3 – And why beholdest thou the mold – – – )

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  18. Jack D says:
    @Thea

    No obvious Jewish links.

    Did you check if he was circumcized? Did you cast a bagel at his feet and see if he dives for it? You can never be really sure. Just to be safe, don’t send him any money just in case he is really a Joo.

  19. Tiny Duck says:

    We should be so lucky to live in a dimension where shoddy “scholarship” is a fireable offence.

    It’s a bad paper that relies on a bad method. The article also makes it clear Pesta was fired for blatant violations of NIH and university policy

    Global admixture is very much confounded by all the social and environmental things that will also vary with it. These can not be well remedied by statistical controls.

    • Troll: Celt Darnell
  20. That said, the actual causes of these differences (i.e., genetic factors, environmental factors, test bias, racism, etc.) remain unknown.

    Sure. And we don’t really know why the Earth orbits the Sun. The data are consistent with a theory of gravitational attraction. But it could also be systemic racism, or it could be some as-yet to be discovered phenomenon. We’re just asking questions and trying to resolve this lively debate! What’s wrong with that?

    I obviously get why hereditarians (including Steve and Charles Murray) feel it’s politically expedient to frame the issue as merely being about abstract rights of free speech and tenure instead of the validity and correctness of the research conclusions. But pussyfooting has the side effect of ceding the high ground of intellectual honesty.

    In fact, the environmentalists obviously know that any rigorous inquiry will tend to show a genetic source for the racial IQ Gap. I mean, if they thought otherwise, they’d be doing their own IQ research and engaging in real debate to prove they were right. Instead, they just do ad hominem attacks and lobby to shut down the whole field. They know the score.

  21. @Achmed E. Newman

    Pesta’s studied agnosticism is practically the same as Steve’s.

  22. @Thea

    What’s O’Brien’s connection with this?

  23. @Jack D

    just in case he is really a Joo

    Dr. John the Night TRipper has been  investigating this case of a bad misspelling of the drk and strk Joo-Joo vibes, that are rollig’n around here – – –
    I  CAn FEEL /
    IT! Crwlin’ round my heel /
    Black swirlin’mamba /
    Snakin’ ramba-zamba/
    Makes me feel like bein’ unda
    The well ‘n’ the spell!

    Dr. John The Night tripper – Joo-Joo-Maru

    https://tinyurl.com/556u9w3f

  24. @Thea

    No obvious Jewish links.

    IDK, man, “Liam O’Brien” sounds pretty Jewish.

    And, actually, he only presented some generically titled paper at some “Marcuse Society.” You’ve got to remember, academia is currently a Marxist death cult by default, so if he’s going to try to pass (especially after just being labelled a Nazi race theorist), he has to at least be ambiguous about his politics. He can’t say, for example, that he worked with the Young Republicans or whatever (which is the same as being a Nazi in academia). In this context, the mere fact that he doesn’t specify that he is passionate about “social justice” probably means, between the lines, that he is on the conservative side. I also like that he balances out “men’s league hockey” with “cooking and birdwatching.” Keep ’em guessing, Liam!

    Liam is a native of Ohio, and has worked professionally as a political organizer for most of his life. He has organized campaigns which have registered tens of thousands of voters, raised millions of dollars for various nonprofit organizations, and successfully secured numerous candidate and ballot petition victories. In his free time, he enjoys cooking, birdwatching, and playing men’s league hockey.

    • LOL: Matthew Kelly
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @HammerJack
  25. Renard says:

    Barry Goldwater on why he couldn’t support the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Like most of us, I was brought up to think it was sacred. And no one respected Goldwater. Perhaps we should have.

    My concern extends beyond this single legislative moment. My concern extends beyond any single group in our society. My concern is for the entire nation, for the freedom of all who live in it and for all who will be born into it.

    It is the general welfare that must be considered now, not just the special appeals for special welfare. This is the time to attend to the liberties of all.

    https://www.thornwalker.com/recoveries/goldwater.html

    [MORE]

    Goldwater again:

    To give genuine effect to the prohibitions of this bill will require the creation of a Federal police force of mammoth proportions. It also bids fair to result in the development of an “informer” psychology in great areas of our national life — neighbors spying on neighbors, workers spying on workers, businessmen spying on businessmen, where those who would harass their fellow citizens for selfish and narrow purposes will have ample inducement to do so. These, the Federal police force, and an “informer” psychology, are the hallmarks of the police state and landmarks in the destruction of a free society.

    Now: INS agent anecdotes. Is he correct about SS benefits to nonresidents?

    My colleague ran into a Somali returning from Somalia to pick up his Social Security checks. I didn’t work for the Social Security Administration, so I’m not sure exactly how the rules work, but if you spend too much time overseas, then your Social Security checks risk being cancelled. So he was returning to the United States to pick them up and then to go back to Somalia. My colleague was surprised and asked the former refugee if it was unsafe in Somalia. The Somali said that it used to be unsafe, but that it was safe now.

    I’ve encountered an entire van of Chinese who had all claimed asylum based on religious affiliation (in my professional opinion they did so fraudulently). They were afraid of returning home officially. Yet, when their green cards came through in the mail, each one had returned home to China within months of getting that card.

    https://vdare.com/posts/to-get-an-immigration-moratorium-it-may-be-necessary-to-promote-repatriation

  26. If he’d been at CSU as an undergrad in 1986, that means he’s my vintage: Generation X.

    As someone — I can’t recall whom — on Twitter noted, our generation has to realize it’s not the 20th century any longer — freedom of speech does not exist.

    Neither the Tweeter or I say this approvingly — the reverse, in fact — but it is unfortunately true: freedom of speech is dead.

    Even tenure no longer protects it.

    Calling it now: Pesta will not be reinstated or granted restitution by any court. His academic career is over.

  27. Steve rarely flat out encourages us to donate $ for anything outside his legitimate fundraisers. This exceptional instance has raised a flag for me, so I have contributed $100.

    This is better than just writing comments, so maybe everyone here can give even $5 or $10 instead of taking that same few moments to pontificate here.

    BTW this subject (proof of genetic intelligence) and its ramifications (social, academic, governmental, etc.) should comprise a large portion of Steve’s new book.

  28. Dr. X says:

    Best of luck to ya, Professor. Been there myself. Unfortunately, in my experience, the universities can do pretty much whatever they want and get away with it. Nobody else gives a damn except a handful of right-wing internet bloggers who won’t pay you anything and who have no real influence. Even if you “win” in court (I didn’t) your career is over.

    Accept the fact that “higher education” is no longer about academic freedom or about seeking truth. “Higher ed” is a government-funded seminary for the official state religion of Radical Sexual and Racial Egalitarianism. You only took flak because you were over the target.

    Socrates — perhaps the founder of Western intellectual inquiry — never had a good-paying gig with benefits, because he refused to accept the official myths of Athens at face value. You are going to lose your comfortable income for refusing to accept the egalitarian myths of the West, but at least they’re not going to put you on trial and sentence you to death… yet.

    Spend the rest of your life basking in the sunshine now that you are no longer wasting your time surrounded by ignoramuses shouting about the shadows on the wall of the cave. I heard that the walleye fishing is great on Lake Erie…

    • Agree: Celt Darnell
  29. @Anon

    Part of the same fight. Protecting minority rights – highly valuable minorities to boot (native children and honest academics, both in short supply). In fact in both cases at this point the fight is merely to bring professional practices up to international standards.

    They’ve degraded due to the negligence of fools like yourself that buy whatever nonsense narrative is given to you by people who don’t have your (or my!) best interests at heart to put it mildly.

    • Replies: @Anon
  30. @Thea

    Straight outta Orwell

    • Agree: Hibernian
  31. @Buzz Mohawk

    I have contributed $100 (…)

    This is better than just writing comments, so maybe everyone here can give even $5 or $10 instead of taking that same few moments to pontificate here.

    Woha – ! – A discount. (That makes it a bit easier for me indeed to give. So – I will!)

  32. @Hypnotoad666

    They know the score.

    You don’t censor the false. You censor what’s true.

    The press doth protest too much with terms such as baseless.

    • Agree: Renard
  33. @Dieter Kief

    The “mote”, yes, Dieter, I know this verse. However, Dr. Pesta wrote this part AFTER the fact. That was all his fundraising pitch, right?

    When it comes to my job there was that thing about not taking the vax, back when they were threatening everybody. As far as PC and wokeness, I do not participate.

    That said, I still like to see the support. Were I at said University in Cleveland, yes, I’d speak up for him. I give money in cash or check form.

  34. @Buzz Mohawk

    I contributed as well.

    The piddly amount raised so far illustrates the degree to which many on the alt right are ferocious warriors for truth and integrity only when they can bitch online, but they aren’t willing to give to serious people who work on their ideas in the public realm.

    Leftists give generously to their causes. Alt-righters expect the truth to win without their support.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    , @Brás Cubas
  35. His name is even O’Brien. Hey, Professor, how many fingers am I holding up?

    The cited justifications were trivial missteps dug up by a lengthy investigation. As Comrade Beria, head of Stalin’s secret police, said, “Show me the man and I’ll find you his crime.”

    Liam O’Brien = I’m no L. Beria!!

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  36. @Achmed E. Newman

    And, this is not a 1st Amendment issue. This is about what tenure is supposed to mean.

    As the former Fenn College is now a state institution, it is both.

  37. Where are other academicians?

    Where were you, buddy?

    • Replies: @Celt Darnell
  38. The Fonz gets a football jersey.

  39. Wilkey says:
    @Thea

    He has raised a lot of money for left wing causes he calls charity. So average low testosterone American communist.

    Liam O’Brien has attended a string of third tier schools studying a third rate major on the way to his (as yet unearned) Ph.D. in political science. Somewhere in there he was sent to do political campaign work in the high vote region that is rural Colorado, suggesting that the campaign he worked for didn’t value his intellect all that much. Even earning his Ph.D. he decides that what will really boost his future career as a professor is to get a professor fired for ThoughtCrime.

    When you wonder why American college students have defaulted on hundreds of billions of dollars worth of student loans, think of guys like Liam O’Brien.

    • Agree: Russ
    • Replies: @CCZ
    , @Reg Cæsar
  40. Wilkey says:
    @Pincher Martin

    The piddly amount raised so far illustrates the degree to which many on the alt right are ferocious warriors for truth and integrity only when they can bitch online, but they aren’t willing to give to serious people who work on their ideas in the public realm.

    The reality is rather complicated. Most of the money for leftwing causes comes from groups with very, very deep pockets. Some of it even comes directly from taxpayers – the universities that hire all those leftwing professors, for one.

    Cleveland State, which fired Dr. Pesta, is the perfect example. It’s a public university in Ohio. Republicans have a 25-8 advantage in the Ohio State Senate, has a Republican governor, a state senate where Republicans have a 25-8 advantage, and a 64-35 advantage in the House, and the governor is a Republican.

    Republican voters in Ohio worked hard to help win those seats. If the solidly Republican government they elected won’t defend Dr. Pesta’s rights, what the hell are we supposed to do about it?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  41. CCZ says:
    @Wilkey

    “….American college students have defaulted on hundreds of billions of dollars worth of student loans,….”

    But another 16 million will escape until at least June 30, 2023.

    • Replies: @Renard
  42. J.Ross says:

    OT — Canadian government confirms that the obvious fed who showed up to a trucker rally with a Nazi flag, whom everyone instantly identified as a fed, was a fed.
    Canadian anon said:

    So for those who don’t remember, early this year Canada had the trucker protests. On the very first day of the truckers reaching Ottawa, the capital city of Canada, a nazi flag started popping up. Today, a lawyer said they had a witness that could identify that person. The CSIS, which is the equivalent of the CIA/NSA of canada said that identifying him would be a threat to national security. In other words, it’s a confirmation that it was a false flag plant.

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief
  43. @Wilkey

    The reality is rather complicated. Most of the money for leftwing causes comes from groups with very, very deep pockets.

    I’m not saying that Alt Righters should be giving this guy a George Soros-like donation. But he has raised a piddly $2,400 so far, despite having two giants of the alt right movement (Charles Murray & Sailer) publicly highlighting his cause. You could raise more money selling Girl Scout cookies over a couple of weeks.

    Republican voters in Ohio worked hard to help win those seats. If the solidly Republican government they elected won’t defend Dr. Pesta’s rights, what the hell are we supposed to do about it?

    Well, in this case, it’s quite clear what we are being asked to do: Give money to his legal defense. You don’t even have to mail it in. There’s an easy link where you can make a donation in less than five minutes.

    Until members of the Alt Right get serious and understand that organization and money count for something – even if by themselves they don’t create success – their movement is going to be little more than a minor irritant to the rest of the body politic.

    Too many people here dog Steve for not doing enough and then when he does something like this, they ignore it.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  44. J.Ross says:

    The enemy isn’t even really the communists, the enemy is the normie who thinks it’s 1985, because as soon as everyone like that figures out what year it is, we win.

  45. Cato says:
    @Thea

    Maybe you hate this dude. But what does this have to do with Bryan Pesta?

    • Replies: @Thea
  46. @Wilkey

    When you wonder why American college students have defaulted on hundreds of billions of dollars worth of student loans, think of guys like Liam O’Brien.

    Any loan forgiveness should be funded from endowments, not the US Treasury. Make it sting.

    • Agree: Rob
  47. @Jack D

    Just to be safe, don’t send him any money just in case he is really a Joo.

    Just for clarification; Thea is not talking about the panhandling ex-prof Dr. Pesta. He’s talking about the rat who raised a campaign to get him fired, one Liam O’Brien. Why one would think that ‘Liam O’Brien’ is Jewish is a different question.

    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Jack D
  48. @Hypnotoad666

    birdwatching, and playing men’s league hockey.

    Birdwatching is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

    • Replies: @Renard
  49. @Jack D

    Do you have some type of “Jewish” bat signal?

    The second someone mentions the Jews, you’re there.

    • Agree: AndrewR, Renard
  50. Richard Hanania speaks with the scientist who has the all time best name for the hero in a Keanu Reeves science fiction movie: Jonny Anomaly.

    Penn students slam new associate PPE director over 2018 paper, ‘Defending eugenics’

  51. @Hypnotoad666

    Hypnotoad666 wrote:

    [Dr. Pesta] That said, the actual causes of these differences (i.e., genetic factors, environmental factors, test bias, racism, etc.) remain unknown.

    [Hypnotoad666.] Sure. And we don’t really know why the Earth orbits the Sun. The data are consistent with a theory of gravitational attraction.

    Well, actually, our best current theory is that there is no direct force from the sun to the earth but, rather, than the sun puts a dimple in spacetime and that dimple propagates out to the earth’s orbit and constrains the motion of the earth.

    So, no real force of gravity, just the curvature of spacetime.

    (I’m actually writing a book on this now showing how to get the key results in General Relativity using only freshman calculus, so I have a current interest in this.)

    The point being that real science is subtle.

    Hypnotoad666 also wrote:

    In fact, the environmentalists obviously know that any rigorous inquiry will tend to show a genetic source for the racial IQ Gap.

    Well, given the fact that there is a racial IQ gap and given the fact that genetic differences can produce differences in IQ, a betting man would indeed bet that at least part of the racial IQ gap is genetic.

    But it might not be. The science really is not (yet) settled.

    If I were betting, I’d bet that a big chunk of the differences in IQ — between individuals as well as ethnic groups — is indirectly genetic: i.e., genes affect behavioral traits (attention span, conscientiousness, etc.) that in turn impact the development of IQ.

    There is a whole complicated web of causes and effects to be untangled here, and it would be a very good thing to do that: we might come to understand that many “low IQ people” could do much better if we fully understood all this.

    But of course, the research is very difficult because it is politically incorrect.

  52. @Pincher Martin

    No, what we’re dogging is the useless conservative (as if!) movement you keep blindly flogging as it does less than nothing to stop this sort of thing, let alone conserve one iota of the tradition that produced such a man.

    Stop making excuses for a party that doesn’t want to govern.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  53. Speaking of Charles Murray, physicist, Lawrence Krauss, who is a hardcore liberal, had Murray on his “Origin’s” podcast to discuss natural biological differences between humans. Interesting quote:

    *”I must confess that I had a kind of a smug reaction to the condemnation you got for your book, The Bell Curve. As a natural liberal I found your statements abhorrent, and I was very pleased with the negative reactions that you got. But then, I realized that the people criticizing you had not even read your book, or given you c chance to state the logic and evidence for your case. That is anathema to science.” That was when I decided to take your side as a scientific purist.*

  54. @Jack D

    Oh just knock it off already.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  55. Rob says:

    I’m actually writing a book on this now showing how to get the key results in General Relativity using only freshman calculus, so I have a current interest in this.)

    I took college calc, so that sounds interesting. How anonymous are you here? Will you be posting a link when you publish?

    On genes and IQ, variation in IQ within a cohort (roughly, same-race age band in a culture) is due to genes and developmental noise: luck. Take a large number of people and average their IQ scores, then the luck goes away. On average, they had average luck.

    But, that’s the only contributor besides genes. Yeah. Population differences could be caused by something else, but if racism depresses black IQ, then it’s more permanent than if the cause were genetic. We’ll eventually be able to modify genes, but good luck ending racism. If I remember correctly, the black IQ distribution is unimodal and normal. There’s not a 5% (say) chunk of the black population that was exposed to very little racism or some compensatory something with a mean IQ of 100. Variation in racism exposure in the US does not seem to strongly influence black IQ. This is disappointing if you were pinning your hopes on racism as the cause.

    There is a whole complicated web of causes and effects to be untangled here, and it would be a very good thing to do that: we might come to understand that many “low IQ people” could do much better if we fully understood all this.

    This is an optimistic view. I hope you are right, but the history of IQ research shows that bleak things tend to pan out. Plus, there’s a bit of, for lack of a better term, white savior complex here. Non-whites are not white people with dark skin. They have different personalities. Maybe we should try to imagine reasonable scenarios for a worst-case scenario on genes and IQ. Roughly, that scenario is that population gaps are nearly totally genetic and there are no plausible interventions that can raise intelligence on a population level. What then?

    Well, for starters, we spend a fortune on ghetto schools trying to close the gap. If we accepted that the gap cannot be closed without abusing and neglecting white kids.* Well, all that money could be spent some other way. If we need schools in the ghetto as laundromats and eateries, we could save a lot of money if we didn’t spend so much on administrators.

    Perhaps we could come up with some sort of policy framework for having jobs for less intelligent people that pay enough to not live like the underclass? I think everyone outside the laptop and educator classes knows that not everyone can manage biochem or machine learning. Maybe we need jobs for them.

    Lastly, maybe we might make the problem smaller every generation? The welfare class surely does not have a guarantee that their TFR shall always be above 2.1.

    * I mean abusing* them more than today.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  56. anonymous[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    A counter movement needs to have the platform of a big important country. None of those countries comes close to matching China ($18 trillion) in economic size now or in the future. Japan ($5 trillion), South Korea (under $2 trillion), India ($3 trillion).

  57. Jack D says:
    @kaganovitch

    What are you talking? There are LOTS of Jews named Liam O’Brien!

    You’re right, I read this wrong – this makes it even more hilarious. Pesta (a Hungarian and Polish name) had some small chance of being Jewish, but Liam O’Brien? Oh, faith and begorrah!

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan
  58. Anonymous[135] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    These pro-lifers don’t give a s*** how many winnable elections they cause us to lose, how much crime they create, how bad the dysgenic dystopia gets. They’re like PETA, feeling that rush of self-satisfaction that comes from yelling “MURDER!!!!!!!” and being PROUD of how their antics alienate normal people. None of them have taken any responsibility for the midterm disaster they are to blame for.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  59. @Jack D

    Bill Maher is very Jewish.
    I wonder about Jake Sullivan. I have never heard any Irish I know name their son Jake. Jewish women love the name Jacob. ( This comment is done.😉)

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Reg Cæsar
  60. Renard says:
    @kaganovitch

    MC: “And what are your hobbies, aside from summarising Proust?”

    Contestant: “Strangling small animals, golf, and masturbating.”

    [Voiceover] “Well, he’s let himself down a bit on the hobbies there–golf’s not very popular ’round here.”

    [Jones, Chapman, Idle, respectively iirc]

    • LOL: Dieter Kief
  61. The point of tenure is to protect professors from being cancelled by all the unwashed masses with their silly backwards worldviews, not from their academic peers.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  62. anon[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    >it seems ex-pats get off on bad-mouthing every single thing about the country they bailed out of. It makes them feel better about their decisions. That’s understandable.

    Also selection bias in whom departs in the first place.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
  63. @Anonymous

    If you won’t stand up for the smallest and weakest of white people against their worst enemies, why would we expect you to do so for any of us?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  64. @Desiderius

    You have no clue what you are talking about and you’re changing the subject

    I gave this man money. While I’m a conservative Republican, I also heavily criticize the party establishment and the recent conservative movement, both of which I consider to be less than useless. The conservative movement does not support people like this. Not recently anyway, except in rare cases like Richwine and Khan.

    So it’s up to the Alt Right to step into the breach and provide the little support it can. The fecklessness of conservatives does not excuse your fecklessness.

    • Replies: @Veteran Aryan
  65. @Jack D

    Jews are typically named after money, e.g. diamond, sapphire, ruby, gold, silver etc. Where do you think the word “jewelry” comes from?

    People think I’m Jewish because I have money in my name and I have a big Jew nose. But I’m not. I’m not offended, I’d rather people think I RUN THE WORLD.

    And you can’t just throw any bagel out there. It’s gotta be an everything bagel with gourmet schmear, tomato, red onion, capers and gravlax. You gotta have good Jew food to capture a Jew. Like lean corned beef and rye. They’re like leprechauns and pots of gold.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  66. AndrewR says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Their worst enemies? You mean their mothers?

    I’m pro choice mostly because I don’t want babies to be born and raised by women who hate them. Some demonic exceptions aside, most pro-choice advocates don’t view abortion as inherently good, but rather they want women to be able to make their own choices.

    • Agree: Renard
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @Hibernian
  67. AndrewR says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    The people who slammed The Bell Curve without reading it are authoritarian blank slatists. The more honest ones will concede that it might be possible that the interracial differences of the human brain are significant, but they believe that the harm from such knowledge necessarily would outweigh any good from it, in the same way a parent might view the idea of his child trying heroin (“nothing good can come of it”)

  68. @Zero Philosopher

    I take your side as a scientific purist

    Nice quote!

    Lawrence Krauss might be righter here than he even thinks (or he does think it through and is still right, but self-reflective (and a bit funny – and – deep – too – : – in turning scientific purity against the scientific purge – – the whole field of tensions he maneuvers in, in the polar tension of these two little words: Purge and purity. In this case: Well done indeed Lawrence Krauss!

    Purity / The Purge dichotomy understood as an existential and a scientific phenomenon

    Jonathan Franzen was also after this dichotomy – he even wrote a breathtakingly beautiful and painstakinly clear novel about the power, that is encapsulsted in the dichotomy between purity-driven actions here and purging acts there (it is a meta-Faustian novel, btw. – the inverse version of Faust.
    Franzen alludes to Geothe’s Faust i & II in many ways in it – and for very good reasons, because Goethe understood perfectly well already that science, in its methodical rigor, is never just enlightening people, but always bothering them too. Making them feel uncomfortable/insecure, fearful, as well as optimistic/enthusiastic hopeful. That’s what Steven Pinker misses out on in his (quite insightful nonetheless) book Enlightenment Now!.

  69. @WowJustWow

    tenure is to protect professors from being cancelled by all the unwashed masses with their silly backwards worldviews, not from their academic peers

    Uh – why make the protective effort of tenure an either/or thing? – Tenure is a means to secure the freedom of science/ the scientist against outright everything and anybody (in the reasonable realm of the law). – Tenure is also a protection against the madness (and the dumbness, the envy, the laziness and the cynicsm…) of colleagues and the institutions science takes place in in general.

  70. @anon

    this is one of the most mentally unbalanced comments I ever read on Unz-and I read a lot of mentally unbalanced comments on Unz
    …truth be told… I made a few myself so I know what I am talking about

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
  71. @PhysicistDave

    So, no real force of gravity, just the curvature of spacetime

    So – your book will show that the gravity problem remains unsolved for all who don’t want to follow the idea that the dimple the sun puts into space time, thus curving it could be understood as just another name for – gravity? – You’re looking for reasons why it is misleading to understand this dimple-effect as a force of gravity – and you’ll explain (show?) why this is a necessary (or:useful) distinction?

  72. TyRade says:

    Power and $$$ to Dr Pesta’s elbow. Perhaps one finesse might at least confuse maybe even deter a while The Narrative KGB? Provide two conclusions to academic work in the IQ/nature/nurture field; one that follows from the work, a second deliberately confected to keep The Narrative hounds at bay, and simply ask the reader to take his pick. It will be obvious from the research which conclusion followed logically, but there’ll be a bone thrown for the Thought Police to chew on.

  73. @Rob

    The latest Imprimis reports that while the number of public school pupils has increased 7.6% this century and the number of teachers 8.7%, “district administrators” (whatever that means) have gone up 87.6%.

    • Replies: @LP5
  74. @Pincher Martin

    I guess the social-darwinists among you outnumber the identitarian ones. And socialists are for planning and cooperation. Most people who frequent this column can’t even agree to wear a mask or take a vaccine. They are not a political movement. They are just sad humanity evolved past the hunter-gatherer stage.

  75. @Bardon Kaldian

    In hiding. Afraid for their tenure or shitty adjunct positions.

    Expect nothing from them.

  76. Bill P says:

    If the Academies want to attenuate tenure, maybe we should let them. After all, which side are most tenured professors on? We’re going to have to fire a lot of them eventually, so if they’re laying the groundwork for that it might be wise to let them carry on.

  77. @anonymous

    A Chinese university should come to the rescue and give him a professorship to demonstrate freedom of speech in China.

    Or he could be given a paid job as a writer at The Unz Review. That would amount to almost the same thing and he wouldn’t have to pack. Now that Ron Unz has received a generous donation and is probably scratching his head at how to spend it, I think it woud be easy to arrange.

  78. JackOH says:
    @J1234

    My understanding was that tenure is to protect academics against retribution for taking unpopular positions. He said that’s correct, but many people misunderstand the nuanced nature of tenure.

    J1234, my understanding is somewhat different. I’ve gathered that tenure is meant to protect against dismissal from one’s position for taking unpopular positions. Retaliation short of dismissal is not rare at all in the academy. Bullying and shunning, removal from committees and other positions of campus influence, deliberate scheduling of classes at distant buildings so the prof’s always late, falsifying (!) requirements for promotion, “over-observation” in the classroom meant to intimidate and not for supervisory purposes, smear campaigns, etc.

    • Replies: @J1234
  79. A lot of good would come if the whole question of cause were ignored and we decided simply to judge people by what they do. Are blacks genetically inclined to be less intelligent? No need to answer. Just judge them, like everyone else, by what they do. If they have the capacity for betterment, let them develop it. Neither obstruct them nor subsidize them.

  80. Brutusale says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    What part of “Never Forget” are you forgetting?

  81. Brutusale says:
    @petit bourgeois

    And you can’t just throw any bagel out there. It’s gotta be an everything bagel with gourmet schmear, tomato, red onion, capers and gravlax. You gotta have good Jew food to capture a Jew. Like lean corned beef and rye. They’re like leprechauns and pots of gold.

    Bullshit! In my experience, nothing turns a Jew into a ravening hyena like shrimp cocktail! Must be the guilty pleasure in the forbidden fruit.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
  82. Thea says:
    @Cato

    He’s the guy who started the witch hunt that ruined Pesta’s career then bragged about getting his tenure revoked.

    https://www.amren.com/news/2022/10/racial-pseudoscience-on-the-faculty/

    • Thanks: Cato
  83. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    Are you one of those idiots who imagines that its middle class white people who are having all the abortions? Please familiarize yourself with the statistics here. The “natives” who will be born under abortion will be economically unproductive and prone to criminality.

    “In fact in both cases at this point the fight is merely to bring professional practices up to international standards.”

    Is this supposed to be an allusion to late term abortion? Everyone knows when you talk about late term abortion it’s just a bait and switch to banning all abortion.

    “They’ve degraded due to the negligence of fools like yourself that buy whatever nonsense narrative is given to you by people who don’t have your (or my!) best interests at heart to put it mildly.”

    States have already banned abortion, I’m not seeing how that’s benefitted me.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  84. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR

    +1

    They never think about what happens after the abortion they prevent. The anti-abortion literature has a pic of a smiling, intact, middle class white family, they imagine that’s what they’re gonna get more of.

    Some would wonder if they think about anything at all.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  85. Jack D says:
    @Bardon Kaldlan

    Sullivan’s wedding photo:

    Unz has the world’s least competent Jew sniffers. They peg 10 out of 5 people they don’t like as being Jewish.

  86. @Brás Cubas

    Most people who frequent this column can’t even agree to wear a mask or take a vaccine.

    That IS the political movement. You had it backwards. We’re not gonna take it. What? You’re not a Twisted Sister fan?

  87. @Anon

    What about after the abortion they don’t prevent?:

  88. LP5 says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg Cæsar writes:

    The latest Imprimis reports that while the number of public school pupils has increased 7.6% this century and the number of teachers 8.7%, “district administrators” (whatever that means) have gone up 87.6%.

    Those district administrators get checks from the taxpayers, so welfare money. Then a pension.
    Feature, not bug, they get to preen, posture, order around others, and no homework to correct.
    Those who can’t teach, teach gym. Those who can’t teach gym, administrate.
    Only downside to them appears to be no summers off.

  89. Jack D says:
    @Joe Stalin

    The documentary has this all wrong. I have been reading Unz and I know this was not a spontaneous struggle against corruption and Russian domination by the Ukrainian people as depicted. Vicky Nuland and her pastries dun it. Ukrainians are NPCs. Only Great Powers like Russia and America are real.

    The same thing is true today – if a bunch of NPCs in maternity hospitals and so on have to “die” in order for Putin to get Biden to come to the negotiating table, that’s just how it goes in the world of Great Power politics.

  90. @AndrewR

    …but rather they want women to be able to make their own choices.

    They’ve already made their own choices. That’s why they’re pregnant!

    There is also a father involved– or not. Reward the scoundrel, but crucify the compassionate man. Then wonder why male behavior has gone down the toilet.

    Some demonic exceptions aside, most pro-choice advocates don’t view abortion as inherently good…

    The demons know exactly what they are doing. They have been winning for decades. Dobbs is a speed bump to them.

    This forum exists because “choice” was not an option in 1958.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  91. @Bardon Kaldlan

    I wonder about Jake Sullivan. I have never heard any Irish I know name their son Jake.

    Jake was determined to be the whitest of boys’ names in the last decade. DeSean, in its myriad forms, was the blackest. (Jacob Blake is an outlier.)

    Jacob was in the top ten names given to American boys from 1993 to 2017, and was #1 from 1999 to 2012. Nearly one in a hundred boys born in 2012 was christened Jacob. Jews didn’t put it there, any more than Irish alone sent Liam to the top today.

    Jacob entered the top 100 in 1974. Note that the three brothers in Here Come the Brides, drooled over by teenage girls a few years earlier, were Jason, Jeremy, and Joshua, all Jacob-adjacent. Jacob was thus in the on-deck circle for when those got too common. (As Ryan was for Brian.)

    The name sunk in the postwar years; the trough came in 1962. My only classmate with the name was indeed Jewish. By then it had fallen a bit among them since the earlier part of the century. (George Gershwin and Rodney Dangerfield were born Jacobs, and felt a need to put it behind them.) But the general population still was a few years away from embracing it.

    Weren’t you the one who said Colton was a “cool” name? Stick to subjects you know well!

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldlan
  92. @Achmed E. Newman

    “You had it backwards. We’re not gonna take it. What? You’re not a Twisted Sister fan?”

    Oh now you’re making me REAALLLLY mad. Don’t make me come over there and school you with a Latin dictionary or something.

    To spare you a right proper rodding, maybe you should first get a clean gander at this, to know where the damn expression really comes from, and why….

    Then of course you’re gonna wanna dig the most genocidal punk rock song of all time, written of course by the most pound-for-pound genocidal people in history….

    A squid eating dough in a poly-ethelene bag is fast and bulbous —- got me?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  93. Old Prude says:
    @Brutusale

    Bullshit yourself! EVERYONE turns into a raving hyena when presented with shrimp cocktail.

  94. Ralph L says:

    Coincidentally, an episode of CSI Miami I watched last night on Ion Crime featured a professor going on a bizarre murder spree because he was denied tenure. His last DB was the prettiest of the regular cast of pretty-boy investigators, unfortunately not David Caruso.

  95. @notbe mk 2

    “…this is one of the most mentally unbalanced comments I ever read on Unz ..”

    I kind of doubt it was serious.

  96. @PhysicistDave

    So, no real force of gravity, just the curvature of spacetime.

    Gravity is a real challenge since there are no observable “gravitons” or “gravity waves” that could act at a distance. But truly explaining “dimples in spacetime” to a layman like me isn’t going to be easy.

    I might be part way there as I’ve decided that Time “isn’t really a thing” in itself. It’s just a comparison between different chains of causation — e.g., the Earth completes 364 3/4-ish revolutions on its axis during each rotation around the Sun. Thus the “time” for each daily revolution is 1/364.75 rotations, and the “time” for each revolution is 364.75 rotations. All events in the Universe can thus be compared to these events and to one another. And, for convenience, compared further to the number of swings of an arbitrarily designed pendulum in a Grandfather Clock. And the ratio of such pendulum swings (or other arbitrarily selected phenomena), to all observable events in the Universe is all that is meant by “Time.” And since causation flows in only one direction, there is no travelling “back in time” — contra science fiction.

    But “Space” on the other hand, seems like a variable that describes an independent and “real” relationships between physical bodies. I’d have to bend my mind a bit more to get to “Spacetime” as a single unified thing.

    I’m sure your book will be interesting even if I never “get it.”

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  97. @Jack D

    Unz has the world’s least competent Jew sniffers. They peg 10 out of 5 people they don’t like as being Jewish.

    C’mon, man. Check out the chandeliers. Maybe that’s a menorah in drag.

  98. @Achmed E. Newman

    You’re not a Twisted Sister fan?

    I am, and stand by the wisdom of its lead singer and songwriter:

    In 2021, Snider objected to the use of the song by demonstrators in Fort Lauderdale protesting face masks during the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States.[38] During the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Snider approved the use of “We’re Not Gonna Take It” by the Ukrainians.[39]

    People are asking me why I endorsed the use of ‘We’re Not Gonna Take It’ for the Ukrainian people and did not for the anti-maskers. Well, one use is for a righteous battle against oppression; the other is infantile feet stomping against an inconvenience.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Snider

    • Replies: @Spencer B
  99. Spencer B says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Steve doesn’t seem to care that his comment section is full of anti-vaxxer crackpots. It’s all about crowd-pleasing, just like the NYT.

  100. @Anon

    And yet Europe has a first trimester limit.

    The things you think everyone knows are wrong.

    Fix that.

    • Replies: @Anon
  101. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    How could I miss recalling the line from Tommy?! WTF was wrong with me?! Thank you. I’m gonna have to change my blog post. As compared to what I learned just now about Dee Snyder from Kung Flu Panicker Bras Cubas, Pete Townshend is reasonably sane still.

    From a Rolling Stone interview with Mr. Townshend, April of ’21, before the web page started jumping around like a CoronaPanicker:

    “Are you vaccinated?
    Yes.

    I’m sure that’s a big relief.

    Yes. That’s one thing that seems to have gone very well here. The vaccination program has been staffed by volunteers. There are some nurses and doctors that do get paid, but the atmosphere at the place I went to was just fabulous. These people are seeing each other every day, and they’re doing good work. Everybody loves them. The atmosphere was terrific. I didn’t have any ill effects other than a little itch about two weeks after I had the prick, but that was all.

    Mind you, I generally have a flu vaccination every year, and I’ve never had any adverse effects from any vaccination. I’m not a pregnant mother, so I don’t have to worry about that side of things. I do think there are legitimate concerns for people about vaccinations and I understand it. But my experience has been good so far.

    Supposedly, according to an idiot named Spencer, that 2nd-to-last sentence is pretty much anti-vax crackpottery. Seems pretty sane to me …

  102. J1234 says:
    @JackOH

    My understanding was that tenure is to protect academics against retribution for taking unpopular positions.

    J1234, my understanding is somewhat different. I’ve gathered that tenure is meant to protect against dismissal from one’s position for taking unpopular positions.

    I wasn’t exactly clear. I meant that tenure is intended to protect academics from dismissal as a form of retribution. The speaker I was talking with said that the other kinds of retribution you mentioned are, in fact, pretty commonly directed towards professors who’ve taken heretical stances, yet have kept their jobs due to tenure. Wokeness says, “microaggressions for me, but not for thee.” Unilateral and self serving logic are actually perceived as principle by the left.

    • Agree: JackOH
  103. @Jack D

    Jake Sullivan,proud graduate of Portland Jewish Academy,says the school gave him a sense of ” pride in my Jewish identity and yada yada yada.”

    Was there some other Jake Sullivan? Cause my Jake,if he marries,will be under da chuppah. PJA,bitch!😉

    • Replies: @Jack D
  104. @Reg Cæsar

    Well,all I can tell you is if I heard you were going to arm wrestle a guy,and his name was Colton,I’d put a very large wager on him!😉

    Stick to subjects I know well? That could put rather a large crimp in my commenting.😮

  105. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    I never said Europe didn’t have a gestational limit. Congratulations on calling me out for a factual inaccuracy I didn’t actually make.

    I said that everyone knows “muh late term abortions” is just a bait and switch because you want to ban all abortions.

  106. @Spencer B

    Steve doesn’t seem to care that his comment section is full of anti-vaxxer crackpots.

    There is a huge difference between opposing all vaccines and opposing specific ones for specific issues. Those pushing masks and premature injections haven’t covered themselves in glory the past two years.

    Skepticism is an immune system in itself.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  107. @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m going to just take a wild lucky guess here, and suspect that you’re a way smarter, funnier, better-informed person than I am. I mean, it’s actually on the cards, in the sense that your commenting persona here is just a heck of a whole a lot better than mine, so I think the gods of good judgment will be obliged to rule in your favor. I think I’m a slight bit better than Corvinus, but that isn’t really saying much.

    Here’s just something fun for your amusement, because who on earth can fail to be fascinated by Morgan James and her friends all singing the Beatles? (Well, maybe Corvinus and Truth, but ya know, ya gotta make allowances and so forth.)

    haveatcha!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  108. Hibernian says:
    @AndrewR

    Some demonic exceptions aside…

    Thse exceptions have been increasing, or coming out in the open more and more, each passing year.

  109. @Reg Cæsar

    There is a huge difference between opposing all vaccines and opposing specific ones for specific issues.

    Here’s my logic: There’s a huge difference between those who personally don’t want to take vaccines but don’t try to interfere in others’ decisions on the matter and those wholly imaginary people (at least here on iSteve) who want to ban the vaccines for everyone.

    Yet, the “non-crackpots” want to FORCE EVERYONE to take the vaccines. Who are the Totalitarian Communist assholes, and who are the reasonable ones here?

  110. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I wasn’t being sarcastic, TGToD. I WILL change and/or correct my PS post, knowing Dee Snyder is just another Panicker AND compared to Twisted Sister, the WHO song from Tommy is so much better.

    I gotta say I like the Beatles version much better than that of these 2 pretty girls who aren’t very good singers IMO. I do like Elton John’s Lucy in the Sky better than the original.

    It’s the whole band, not just Elton, who makes this song.

  111. @Brás Cubas

    In America, “Social Darwinism” was just a swear word used by the left against those who opposed progressive social legislation. But even people who in an earlier age were identified as “Social Darwinists” cooperated for mutual gain. Capitalists certainly saw the need for cooperation in legislation and politics.

  112. @Dieter Kief

    Dieter Kief asked me:

    So – your book will show that the gravity problem remains unsolved for all who don’t want to follow the idea that the dimple the sun puts into space time, thus curving it could be understood as just another name for – gravity?

    Well, I’m not sure I understand your question.

    What I was describing, in simple terms, just is Einstein’s theory of gravity, what he named “General Relativity.”

    In General Relativity, there is simply no force that acts at a distance directly from the Sun onto the earth. Space and time are flexible and are distorted (“curved”) by matter but only in the immediate place where the matter is present: the Sun does not reach out towards the earth but merely dimples the spacetime where the Sun is. Spacetime in other places dynamically adjusts to the structure of the immediately adjacent spacetime.

    In particular, the earth is moving in the straightest possible line in spacetime: a so-called “geodesic.” The earth’s motion is not being distorted by any force from the Sun: the earth is just moving on the straightest possible path through (curved) spacetime. If anyone wishes to understand the broad picture here, I recommend John Wheeler’s A Journey into Gravity and Spacetime.

    The purpose of my book is simply to describe what Einstein’s theory is and what it predicts in quantitative detail for simple cases such as planetary motion, but using much simpler math than is used in most textbooks on the subject.

    Normally, texts that go into quantitative detail on General Relativity use graduate-level math — so-called Riemannian geometry. I’ve figured out how to work out the key results using only freshman calculus.

    General Relativity is usually considered incomprehensible for, say, sophomore physics students, but I can show that it can be understood at that level.

    As to whether General Relativity is the ultimate, final word on the subject, almost all of us physicists generally agree it is not, since no one knows how to combine quantum mechanics with General Relativity.

    But my goal is more modest: simply to calculate the detailed quantitative contents of General Relativity — the precession of the perihelion of Mercury, the existence of black holes, the standard models of cosmology, etc. — using straightforward undergrad math.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  113. @Hypnotoad666

    Hypnotoad666 wrote to me:

    [Dave]: So, no real force of gravity, just the curvature of spacetime.

    [Hypnotoad666]: Gravity is a real challenge since there are no observable “gravitons” or “gravity waves” that could act at a distance. But truly explaining “dimples in spacetime” to a layman like me isn’t going to be easy.

    Well, as I mentioned to Dieter, the best intro I know at a layman’s level is John Wheeler’s A Journey into Gravity and Spacetime : it should be comprehensible to anyone who is interested in reading pop-science books — it requires very little math.

    My book is basically for someone who is comfortable with first-year calculus and who wants to see how the conceptual ideas presented in Wheeler’s book actually work out in mathematical detail. I.e., lots of math in my book, but nothing that should be too hard for a determined college sophomore in math, physics, or electrical engineering.

    In a sense, I am writing the sequel to Wheeler’s book that actually has all the math. Think of his book as the appetizer and mine as the rather less tasty but hopefully more filling main course.

    Hypnotoad666 also wrote:

    I might be part way there as I’ve decided that Time “isn’t really a thing” in itself. It’s just a comparison between different chains of causation — e.g., the Earth completes 364 3/4-ish revolutions on its axis during each rotation around the Sun. Thus the “time” for each daily revolution is 1/364.75 rotations, and the “time” for each revolution is 364.75 rotations.

    Well… in relativity, time is relative in the sense that it depends on your state of motion and your position in a gravitational field. But in another sense, time is quite absolute: for two observers in the same state of motion at the same positions in a gravitational field, time is an absolute: there is no “wiggle room” here.

    Indeed, the theory itself predicts, in exact detail, how the passage of time depends on one’s state of motion and one’s position in the gravitational field: again, time is, in this sense, not relative at all.

    Hypnotoad666 also wrote:

    But “Space” on the other hand, seems like a variable that describes an independent and “real” relationships between physical bodies. I’d have to bend my mind a bit more to get to “Spacetime” as a single unified thing.

    Well, space is both “relative’ or “absolute” in the same senses that I just explained for time.

    In particular, space is non-Euclidean: Euclid’s geometry is simply not true in the real physical world.

    Geometry is an empirical science.

    At least, that is the content of General Relativity, and this has been confirmed in great quantitative detail observationally. The point of the famous 1919 observation of the deflection of starlight by the sun was that it gave the result predicted by General Relativity that not only was time relative but also that Euclidean geometry is empirically false.

    One of the main points I am getting at here is that some of our verbalist friends tend to take the attitude of “Just be consistent: are space and time truly relative or truly absolute.”

    To which the answer is: “No, the physical world does not conform to simple verbal arguments a la Corvinus. It is what it is. I can tell you the detailed mathematical description of our best current theories. But if you insist that this mathematical description fit into some simple verbal dichotomy… well, Mother Nature does not agree. Reality rules — not words. We need to make our words conform to reality.”

    • Thanks: Hypnotoad666
    • Replies: @cthulhu
  114. @Spencer B

    Seteve Sailer can’t be blamed for that. I think he goes in the opposite direction, only nodding mildly approvingly to the blandest conspiracy theories.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
  115. Jack D says:
    @Bardon Kaldlan

    Must be some other Jake because the one in the Biden Administration grew up in Minneapolis.

  116. @PhysicistDave

    Thx. Dave.

    Ok – what you say with Albert Einstein is that some aspects of nature change with the context in which they are perceived.

    So: The dimple the sun puts into spacetime causes – in a different context, I get that – something that is relatetd to – or: comparable to – what gravity does for us.

    I understand that the rather complex transformative processes that are at work here (and that you try to – formally – simplify in your book) are the basic insight (= a telling example), that lets you hesitate with regard to whether the racial cognitive differences are caused by genetic differences – or maybe not (or, as it might turn out as well: Not directly).

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  117. @Spencer B

    his comment section is full of anti-vaxxer crackpots

    If you’ve been paying any attention the actual data, you’d know that the “crackpots” were more correct than the official narrative. The mRNA Vaxx is a giant bust. It doesn’t prevent transmission. It greatly increases your risk of covid injury for the first two weeks after your jab, then it has a moderate protective effect against serious symptoms for about eight weeks or so. Then it does nothing. And then it’s time for another booster.

    It’s protection is far inferior to natural immunity, and its “antigenic fixation” effect will leave you far more vulnerable to future covid iterations than the wise people who just went about their lives, caught the glorified head cold, and got natural immunity. It’s crap. And everybody knows it. At this point they can’t even give it away to NYT subscribers.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman, BB753
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  118. cthulhu says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Count me as another who will be interested in your book.

    Although you’ll have some competition – Susskind’s next book in the Theoretical Minimum series (with a “citizen scientist” co-author, like the rest of those books in the series have had) is supposed to be out in January, and its topic is GR. But according to the blurb, they’re planning to provide some background on tensor calculus and differential geometry. (I’ve had tensor calculus and variational calculus, but it was a while ago, so we’ll see how much I remember; I have enjoyed the other books in the series though – my background is engineering, so I’ve covered many of these topics, but the pure physics curriculum comes at this stuff in a somewhat different way.)

    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  119. @Brás Cubas

    “Seteve Sailer can’t be blamed for that. ..”

    It is his decision to moderate lightly. I understand the appeal of free speech but I think the comment section would be better if it was more selective.

    • Agree: Peter Johnson
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  120. @Dieter Kief

    Dieter wrote to me:

    Ok – what you say with Albert Einstein is that some aspects of nature change with the context in which they are perceived.

    Well, no, I don’t think that is right. Nature is what it is. How we perceive it does not matter.

    Dieter also wrote:

    So: The dimple the sun puts into spacetime causes – in a different context, I get that – something that is relatetd to – or: comparable to – what gravity does for us.

    Well, no.

    Let me try an analogy: I assume that you, like most people say that the Sun rises in the East.

    But, of course, you know that the Sun is not really revolving around the earth. The earth is rotating from West to East and the “rising” of the Sun is really simply a matter of that patch of earth on which you reside moving to a position from which you can see the Sun due to the earth’s rotation.

    It would be pointlessly pedantic to complain every time someone says “The Sun rises,” but we expect educated people to know that this is not literally true. The Sun does not move through the sky on a daily basis, but, rather, for educated people, saying that the Sun rises is just shorthand for what I just said about the earth’s rotation.

    Similarly, it would be pointlessly pedantic to complain every time that someone says “The gravitational force from the Sun keeps the earth in orbit.” But an educated person should know that this is not what really happens. What really happens is that the earth follows the straightest possible path through four-dimensional curved spacetime. That curvature is produced by the Sun, but only indirectly. The way that spacetime curves, once the Sun puts a dimple in spacetime where the Sun is located, is that then the spacetime surrounding the Sun cannot simply be flat. It has to accommodate the dimple by curving a bit, and the spacetime a bit further out has to in turn accommodate that curvature by curving a bit and so on and so on, until you reach the position of the earth, where spacetime still has to be curved a bit.

    It simply is not a matter of the Sun acting directly on the earth.

    There is no such thing as “gravity” aside from this curvature of spacetime.

    Dieter also wrote:

    I understand that the rather complex transformative processes that are at work here…

    I would not say there are any “transformative processes” here: it is just that the universe just is and always has been a rather different place than humans though it was before Einstein.

    Going back to our original topic, I myself suspect that a lot of the under-performance of Blacks may indeed be due to racial discrimination, but of a different sort than most people imagine. What I have in mind is “discrimination of low expectations.” In the US, there is an expectation that Blacks will be more “spontaneous,” more “authentic,” more “edgy” than Whites and Asians.

    Not surprisingly, lots of Blacks try to meet those expectations.

    But being spontaneous, authentic, and edgy does not really fit in with reading the encyclopedia for fun on Saturday nights rather than going out and raising some Hell on Saturday nights.

    And so the nerdy Asian and White kids who do read the encyclopedia for fun (I did!) end up doing better academically.

    The point being that real observations — the daily experience with the Sun, the orbiting of the earth around the Sun, the under-performance of Blacks academically — may and often do have vastly more complex causes than meets the eye.

    The world is simply not what most human beings think it is.

    At all.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Anonymous
  121. @James B. Shearer

    I don’t know for sure whether it is his decision. I remember a conflict between former columnist Peter Frost and the editor-in-chief Ron Unz over moderation; Peter Frost was very worried because he was a Canadian citizen and they do not have a first amendment there; if I remember correctly, he said that he could be held accountable for the comments made on his articles. He was most concerned about anti-semitic comments. Peter Frost eventually decided to stop publishing here, because, if I remember correctly, Ron Unz disagreed about moderating such comments. I have no idea whether he would have the same position regarding all kinds of comments or just certain kinds. If I’m mistaken in any detail of my account of this episode, everyone please feel free to correct me. On the other hand, columnist Paul Craig Roberts is allowed to close the comments section on his column, so it appears this is not a one-size-fits-all rule.
    Whatever the case may be, I severely doubt that censorship is an effective means to quash dissent or foolish opinions. It would obviously work in this limited environment, but it could generate an even more intense reaction overall.

  122. @Hypnotoad666

    Christine Stabell-Benn, Danish vaccine-consequences (!) researcher since three decades, differs slightly in that she says the vaccines did prevent death at a considerable (if not very high) rate. Her work can easily be found on the net. Great interview on unHerdTV that Freddy sayers made with her. Ah – she then goes on to say: No vaccinations for healthy people under seventy! – For her, both sentences togethr do obviously make sense, and it could well be that she is right (to decide this, more research is necessary).

  123. @PhysicistDave

    Thx. again, Dave.

    Let me ask one more question, if you please:

    Would you say it is completely unreasonable to state the following:

    To state that gravity in a physics textbook for a twelve year old would be connected to the dimples the sun puts into spacetime is comparable to saying the sun rises in the east?
    (In most everydy contexts is is fairly easy to life with both claims).

    PS
    Your answer to the IQ difference is a an attempt to look at it from a – beneficial perspective. Ironically, the many severe attacks on Steve Sailer were caused by arguments he brought forward thinking in this vein (his New Orleans post-Katrina remarks).

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  124. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Work by the (now cancelled) Pesta and co-authors shows that genetic variation between Blacks and Whites causally explains most of the academic under-performance of Blacks. The social causes that you mention are relatively minor, not zero in their effect but not the major cause.

    The rest of your comment was very well-informed and interesting. You are correct about gravity AFAIK but Pesta et al. show that Black academic under-performance is mostly due to African genetic variation giving lower average cognitive ability to Blacks. Not mostly due to “the hood” social influence, etc., mostly due to boring, simple genetic variation across continental ancestries.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  125. @Brás Cubas

    Mr. Unz is an OUTSTANDING stalwart for free speech, and Steve Sailer is not too far behind. They syndicated pundit Paul Craig Roberts had a hissy fit when some commenters on this site wrote too much truth in response to his Climate Calamity™ alarmism in a couple of columns a few years back. I’m proud to say that I am one of them that caused the consternation to Mr. Roberts, as

    a) I was right and didn’t appreciate long-term Conservative Mr. Roberts’ getting his panties in a bunch over being corrected.

    b) From the post titles that I see, I believe Mr. Roberts has changed his mind on that issue 180 degrees. (Again, I only read the titles, as, if, or when, he won’t allow comments, I won’t read.)

    Your calls for censorship here is not the high-minded idea you think. It’s funny that you are calling for censorship on the iSteve site on one particular issue that both you and he are wrong about! (For you, maybe it’s an everyday thing. For Mr. Sailer, not so much.)

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  126. @Spencer B

    Steve doesn’t seem to care that his comment section is full of anti-vaxxer crackpots.

    Two years ago I was an anti-vaxxer crackpot. Now I’m just a guy who was two years ahead of his time. You, on the other hand…

  127. @Pincher Martin

    I gave this man money.

    And what did you get for your money? A bit of feelgood? Getting the money out of Cleveland State University as a form of punishment would go a lot further towards achieving our goals than expecting us to subsidize everyone that the Left chews up and spits out ever could.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  128. @Achmed E. Newman

    Your calls for censorship here

    I said that censorship would work here in the obvious sense that it would be feasible. I oppose it.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  129. @Dieter Kief

    You’re looking for reasons why it is misleading to understand this dimple-effect as a force of gravity – and you’ll explain (show?) why this is a necessary (or:useful) distinction?

    Because bending space-time affects light, while gravity does not. If you were to say that gravity affects light, you’re saying that light has mass – and the calliope crashes to the ground. No more Big Bang theory, because if light has mass, gravity will slow it down and offer an alternative explanation for red shift. Ironically, slowing light down would cause more of its energy to be converted to mass, offering an explanation for dark matter. But for now we’re clinging vigorously to Big Bang theory, in spite of its obvious flaws.

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  130. @Anonymous

    Anonymous[396] wrote to me:

    Work by the (now cancelled) Pesta and co-authors shows that genetic variation between Blacks and Whites causally explains most of the academic under-performance of Blacks. The social causes that you mention are relatively minor, not zero in their effect but not the major cause.

    Well, perhaps that is correct: I have said many times that a betting man would have to bet a priori (Bayesian analysis and all that) that there is a significant genetic component.

    And it is also true that some people who know this areas of science better than I do but who have liberal political views (I specifically have in mind David Reich, the famous paleo-geneticist at Harvard and author of Who We Are and How We Got Here) think there probably is a big genetic component here.

    But I also think it is safe to say that the science is not settled: I think there are people who are honest geneticists who do not find the evidence totally convincing that differences in IQ scores among different races/ethnic groups are primarily genetic.

    My generic point here (pardon the pun!) is that this is commonly true in science. Science is hard.

    Some science is effectively settled: the earth does move around the Sun; we really are descended from fish; human actions have had an effect on global climate; there is a substantial genetic component to intelligence.

    But even in “settled” case like those, there is room for wiggle room, correction, and elaboration.

    Is natural selection the only force in evolution (no, it’s not)? Is human action the only cause of global warming (probably not)? Does the Sun directly act on the earth (no, it does not)? And similarly for genes and intelligence.

    Scientists in general are pretty comfortable with that reality. But all hell breaks loose when the science has social, political, or religious implications — as is true for global warming, evolution, and the genetics of intelligence.

    I gave the example of celestial mechanics because, after all, most human beings do not give a damn about the true nature of gravity (although, more than once when I have casually mentioned some fact about General Relativity, it has caused some guy to fly into a rage — some people are really weird!).

    Anyway, the normal way that science does, and certainly should, deal with such issues is by further investigation and open debate. Unfortunately, that is being blocked in the case of research on genes and intelligence, as Pesta’s case shows.

    And that is not good for science.

  131. @Dieter Kief

    Dieter Kief wrote to me:

    Would you say it is completely unreasonable to state the following:

    To state that gravity in a physics textbook for a twelve year old would be connected to the dimples the sun puts into spacetime is comparable to saying the sun rises in the east?
    (In most everydy contexts is is fairly easy to life with both claims).

    Well, of course, the Sun does rise in the East! But my point was that the word “rise” conveys to most people that the Sun is doing the moving, and we expect educated people to know that that is not literally true: we expect them to know that the “rising” in the East is actually due to the rotation of the earth.

    And, similarly, I suppose middle-school texts do still say that it is the gravitational force of the Sun that holds the earth in its orbit.

    Now, if I were writing the middle-school texts, I would probably add something along the lines of: “What causes this apparent gravitational force is that the Sun affects space and time in such a way that time passes slightly faster the further one gets from the Sun, and, as a famous man named Albert Einstein discovered, that is what actually affects the motion of the earth.”

    I think that by the time students get out of high school, they should learn this. But perhaps it is not critical that they learn it in middle school!

    By the way, it is this differential passage of time at different heights in a gravitational field that is primarily responsible for most of the effects that we attribute to gravity. For “normal” gravitational fields (not too close to a black hole or to the Big Bang), the fact that the geometry of space is not Euclidean produces very minor effects that are very hard to measure. The 1919 measurement of deflection of starlight by the Sun was crucial because the correct, observed value was twice what one would get were space not curved. So, it was strong evidence that Einstein was correct that space is non-Euclidean.

    Going back to the original point about genes and intelligence, my main point is that people should learn that science is very difficult but that it does progress. Results that are useful and true as far as they go can be refined and replaced by more sophisticated analyses and discoveries.

    Human beings tend to want definitive, final answers. I understand that, but that is not how science progresses.

  132. @Veteran Aryan

    What I got for my money was the feeling I was contributing to a good and worthy cause. Try it sometime.

    Getting the money out of Cleveland State University as a form of punishment would go a lot further towards achieving our goals than expecting us to subsidize everyone that the Left chews up and spits out ever could.

    This man has a court case against the university. He’s not wealthy. So he requires some help funding his case.

    Are you going to give it to him? Or are you going to try to make the stupid argument that the best way to get money out of Cleveland State is to let people who are wronged by it and in litigation against it go unfunded?

    The people kicking our asses don’t do things the way you do them. They fund their causes. They help the people who are being hurt by their enemies. So perhaps you ought to stop acting like a loser and emulate those who are winning.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  133. Renard says:
    @CCZ

    But another 16 million will escape until at least June 30, 2023.

    By which time we’ll be deep into the new recession, which will supply their next excuse for an extension.

    Recession will end by early to mid 2024, in time for the next election.

  134. @Brás Cubas

    “…Whatever the case may be, I severely doubt that censorship is an effective means to quash dissent or foolish opinions. ..”

    Suppose your objective is to produce a better comments section? No one has enough time to read even a small fraction of all the stuff on the internet. So you have to be selective and among other things rely on people you find worth reading to point you to other stuff worth reading. Currently the comments here contain lots of stuff that I don’t find worth reading. I would prefer that Sailer eliminate more of the dross rather than leaving that to his readers.

  135. anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    It’s hard to be motivated when we personally have to spend money to react at such a low level. To inspire people it is necessary to tackle things head on at the root. What’s the plan for limiting Jewish power?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  136. @PhysicistDave

    the sun puts a dimple in spacetime and that dimple propagates out to the earth’s orbit and constrains the motion of the earth.

    I remember reading a book about planetary motion when I was a pre-teen (my Dad had a nice library of science books)… there was an illustration of the effect of celestial bodies on spacetime that looked like a trampoline with a bowling ball in the middle… distorting the surface (essentially causing a large “dimple”) being “orbited” by a billiard ball, its path constrained by the curvature of the trampoline’s surface and the billiard ball’s momentum. I always found it a useful way to think about spacetime curvature.

  137. @Veteran Aryan

    The Big Bang is not least a metaphor that – has some sparks in it (= a self-propelling metaphor = almost something like a social (or: aesthetical) perpetuum mobile)).
    Sabine Hossenfelder is a physicist, that does consider such aspects of physical theories – as well as strictly theoretical/practical ones.

  138. @anonymous

    It’s hard to be motivated when we personally have to spend money to react at such a low level.

    Why? Giving to a good cause ought to count whether you have George Soros wealth or not.

    To inspire people it is necessary to tackle things head on at the root. What’s the plan for limiting Jewish power?

    How about increasing your own power and that of people who believe like you do?

    Too many people here think like losers. Perhaps it’s not surprising then that they continue to lose. American Jews didn’t always have money, but they always had a superb capability to organize and a willingness to fight for their causes.

  139. @cthulhu

    Thanks for the heads up.

    As it happens, Lenny was on my doctoral thesis committee, though I have not been in touch for many years.

    Looking over the contents on amazon, it appears that Lenny’s book does not go into the kind of detail my book does, but that his book would actually be a good introduction to my book. (He will also sell a lot more copies!)

    So, I’ll be getting a copy of Lenny’s book shortly after it is published.

    My own book, by the way, requires absolutely zero tensor analysis. I can solve everything from the Schwarzschild solution to the ΛCDM model for cosmology using only first-year calculus. I just worked out the details of ΛCDM over the last few days.

    Everything in my book relies heavily on spherical symmetry — that’s what makes it possible to ignore tensor analysis and just use single-variable calculus. Unfortunately, that does mean that I cannot cover gravitational waves (there are no spherical gravitational waves — this follows from Birkhoff’s theorem).

    But it is pretty surprising how far one can go with spherical symmetry and first-year calculus — all the standard tests (bending of starlight by the sun, the precession of the perihelion of Mercury), the equations for (spherical) stellar structure, and, as I said, the ΛCDM model. All in quantitative detail to the physicist’s (or engineer’s) usual level of mathematical rigor.

    Thanks again for the info.

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