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Did the US Navy Lose a Light Aircraft Carrier to Attack in 2020?
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From NBC News:

Navy will scrap assault ship damaged by massive fire
Nov. 30, 2020, 1:11 PM PST
By Courtney Kube

The Navy has decided to scrap the USS Bonhomme Richard, the amphibious assault ship that caught fire over the summer in San Diego, officials announced Monday.

Navy Secretary Kenneth Braithwaite said the decision was made after officials determined the damage was too extensive and the cost of repair too high to justify salvaging the vessel. …

The fire broke out July 12 and took four days to extinguish. The ship, which works to deploy elements of Marine landing forces, was based at Naval Base San Diego after having spent six years in Japan.

Investigators believe the fire may have been intentionally set but the Navy has yet to formally declare it a case of arson.

An unidentified sailor is the focus of the investigation of the suspected arson, which, perhaps coincidentally, took place around the height of the BLM/Antifa Mostly Peaceful Protests. On the other hand, the USS Miami was burned beyond repair in 2012 by a dockworker wanting to get off work.

The damage caused by the fire was extensive. “Probably 60% of the ship would require replacement,” including the mast, island, and the levels directly below the flight deck, said Rear Admiral Eric Ver Hage, the commander of Navy Regional Maintenance Center.

Following an extensive review, the Navy concluded that rebuilding the ship would cost more than $3 billion and take between five and seven years to complete.

 
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  1. I can see some loser sailor going BLM on this ship. Given that other sailors were injured and the ship lost, if the guilty person is convicted he should hang.

  2. Hockamaw says:

    The absolute state of the United States Navy.

    • Replies: @Cato
    , @Old Prude
    , @Dan Eggum
  3. Polistra says:

    The Navy has decided to scrap the USS Bonhomme Richard, the amphibious assault ship that caught fire over the summer in San Diego

    I have an idea! Let’s scrap the entire US Navy! Heck, why not scrap the entire country? What’s that? We’re on it? Oh cool. First In Diversity though.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Oswald Spengler
  4. J.Ross says:

    Now one thing we can exclude from the start is the possibility that powerful totalitarian states with aggressive terrorism and subversion and sabotage doctrines could have had anything to do with this. When life gives you wierd little accidents you make open all borders and stop asking questions.
    >so you’re requiring he be ethnically Chinese and speak fluent Mandarin and be wearing Mao shirt and be on a diet
    No. Money exists. But, with an intelligence apparatus which has given us the likes of Strzok, Hayden, Comey, and Brennan, the real point is we’ll never know, nor will we have any defense or forewarning of any kind whatever the next time it happens. Good thing Russian hackers was an aggressively insultingly ridiculous lie. If we had to fight Russia with people like this we’d be dead.

    • Agree: Neoconned
  5. “Following an extensive review, the Navy concluded that rebuilding the ship would cost more than $3 billion and take between five and seven years to complete.”

    this is 1 billion dollars more expensive than a new one, and 2 to 3 years longer than it takes to build a new one.

    just build a new one if it’s really needed – which it isn’t.

    not nearly as bad of a deal as Space Launch System though. 2 BILLION dollars PER LAUNCH? even Apollo launches only cost 1 billion dollars in apples to apples dollars. how did things get twice as expensive?

    • Agree: Polistra
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  6. Who set the Notre Dame fire?

    https://twitter.com/search?q=Notre%20dame%20fire%20muslimS&src=typed_query&f=image

  7. Well it’s only 3 billion and will give a repair crew, probably civilian workers, 5 to 7 years of work. The private economy will probably take half as long to recover. Spend the money, create the jobs.

    • Disagree: Abolish_public_education
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  8. I just finished watching a documentary about the USS Enterprise (CV-6), which returned to combat off Guadalcanal within two months after sustaining three direct bomb hits and four near misses. These inflicted severe damage on the carrier, killed 74 crewmen, and wounded another 95. The total time out of action included a round trip to and from repair facilities at Pearl Harbor, a distance of well over two thousand miles. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_%28CV-6%29#South_Pacific)

    The USA may no longer have the capacity to fight and win a naval war as the country did in WW II but its citizens should rejoice in the increase in diversity of its armed services since those benighted days.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  9. Mike Tre says:

    I’d say sabotage is a more accurate term than attack.

    • Agree: SIMP simp
  10. BenKenobi says:

    Probably revenge for Emit Till (PBUH)

    • Agree: JimDandy, By-tor
    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
  11. prosa123 says:

    It will meet its end in Brownsville, Texas. While scrappers in India and Bangladesh handle most large ships, the Navy wants to keep the work in the US for security reasons and uses a Brownsville scrapyard.

  12. @prosa123

    Do they secure a bunch of H1-B visas so those peculiarly skilled low caste Indians or not-so-nutty Pakis can put the Texicans out of work??

    • Replies: @Lurker
  13. J.Ross says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    These people hate the truth more than Satan hates God. Nothing must be announced.

  14. @prosa123

    It will meet its end in Brownsville, Texas. While scrappers in India and Bangladesh handle most large ships, the Navy wants to keep the work in the US for security reasons and uses a Brownsville scrapyard.

    My Coast Guard vessels of the Carter era retired to service Africa, and after that, now serve as artificial reefs. They were built in the ’30s and ’40s.

  15. I don’t suppose we could learn the race of these fine individuals.

    Telling me could lead to ameliorating my bigotry — or not.

    Depending on the answers, of course.

  16. epebble says:

    This is the story of USS Miami

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/15/nuclear-submarine-fire/1990663/

    It is amazing that

    1. Navy (contractor) employed a person with unsound mind to work on a nuclear submarine

    2. That a troubled fairly low skilled person could effectively takeout a nuclear submarine by setting fire to a pile of rags.

    This makes me think the USS Bonhomme Richard may also have been destroyed by stupidity/incompetence and the navy is doing CYA by blaming it on arson. Till recently, they were routinely banging their ships to other ships due to poor navigation and maneuvering skills.

    https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/navy-destroyer-uss-john-s-mccain-collides-merchant-ship-east-n794386

    https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/navy-investigating-submarine-osv-collision

  17. Polistra says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Who set the Notre Dame fire?

    I just know you’re going to say Ghislaine Maxwell did it.

  18. @JohnnyWalker123

    Who set the Notre Dame fire?

    Put Occam’s razor back, and use Hanlon’s. Immigrant incompetence is just as plausible an explanation as immigrant arson.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

  19. Farenheit says:

    Crap, BLM has a Kamikaze Corps now….I guess we need to counter by taking the Enola Gay out of mothballs.

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
  20. The traditional mentality that offensive action is limited to military action is no longer adequate given the range of contemporary threats and the rising costs-both in dollars and lives lost-of traditional warfare. Instead, Liang and Xiangsui suggest the significance of alternatives to direct military confrontation, including international policy, economic warfare, attacks on digital infrastructure and networks, and terrorism. Even a relatively insignificant state can incapacitate a far more powerful enemy by applying pressure to their economic and political systems.

  21. Polistra says:
    @prosa123

    the Navy wants to keep the work in the US for security reasons and uses a Brownsville scrapyard.

    Now make up your mind. Brownsville or the US?

    • Agree: lavoisier
  22. Abe says:

    USS Bonhomme Richard

    The Brits built probably 100 battleships or near-battleships (i.e. cruisers) and used a lot of cool names to name them all- AJAX, INFLEXIBLE, IRON DUKE, BLACK PRINCE, ORION, etc.

    U.S. Navy capital ship names have tended to be much more functional, though. So can we actually have some fun with picking the name of this ship’s replacement? Since the 2 words in its name remind me a bit of 2 famous rock stars, how about the JOHN BONHAM LITTLE RICHARD? Or since “Bonhomme” and “Bono” mean the same thing, how about the U2 JOHN BONHAM LITTLE RICHARD?

  23. Thomas says:

    This ship was roughly 10% of the U.S. Navy’s ability to land Marines somewhere in the event of, say, a conflict with China in the Western Pacific. When you factor in that warships spend only about a third of their time at sea, that gap is magnified further. Not good.

    • Replies: @prime noticer
    , @David
  24. Trelane says:

    How do things made of steel “catch fire’ and take 4 days to put out?

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    , @Pericles
    , @Momus
  25. JimB says:
    @Alice in Wonderland

    I can see some loser sailor going BLM on this ship. Given that other sailors were injured and the ship lost, if the guilty person is convicted he should hang.

    Tie him in a stress position on the poop deck and leave him until he has a fatal heart attack.

    • Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki
  26. JimDandy says:
    @Alice in Wonderland

    It’s inevitable. Our military is under direct orders to woke up, pronto, from top to bottom, per Lieutenant Colonel Natalya Pritzger’s orders.

  27. 216 says:

    Maybe we should cut their budget as punishment.

  28. Anon[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I agree, stupidity. I remember reading that, at the time of the fire, the sprinkler system had been shut-down for maintenance reasons. With no sprinklers, was the “smoking lamp” lit? I never saw an answer to that. And, there were sloppy rag piles in places. Did a maintenance worker use a torch? This reminds me of the dive boat fire in Calif, where the required roving night watchman was sleeping. Seems to me, with the sprinklers off, safety crew should be roving. Btw, my cutter was retired to S. America. Semper paratus.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  29. @Reg Cæsar

    The contract for the roof repair that was going on went to the lowest bidder. Macron’s hope that repairs of the fire damage will be done in time for all those Chinese tourists to return for the Olympics in 2024 are probably optimistic.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
  30. @Farenheit

    C’mon, man! You’re overreacting.

    Two hundred well-trained German Shepherd dogs, a thousand or so Certified Mail letters, a few Joni Mitchell albums turned up real loud, and lots and lots of copies of Milton Friedman’s Capitalism and Freedom — problem solved.

    • Replies: @Farenheit
    , @Polistra
  31. I don’t understand. What’s wrong with burning an aircraft carrier?

    • Replies: @raga10
  32. Dan Hayes says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Not Arson! That was the official determination albeit before any inspection was carried out! 😎

  33. @Polistra

    Notredame didn’t commit suicide.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @kaganovitch
  34. @JohnnyWalker123

    Like the dancing Israelis on September 11, 2001.

  35. @Dan Hayes

    Same deal with “death due to covid” without a postmortem.

    Whenever there’s a crisis they have to act fast, no time for evidence, reasoning, procedures, etc.

    Reminds me of the housing bubble’s notorious “Linda Green”, the robo-signature found on a lot of NINJA loans.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  36. I’ve heard rumors that the 1967 fire on the USS Forrestal which killed something like 131 sailors was due to racially motivated arson, even though the official story is that it was an accident. There’s also a nutty theory that it was John McCain (a kooky conspiracy theory deliberately promulgated to help cover the real story?)

    • Replies: @Altai
    , @Reg Cæsar
  37. @Dan Hayes

    Fox News “journalist” Shepard Smith shut down a Frenchman who speculated that the Notre Dame fire might’ve been set by an arsonist

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  38. They aren’t identifying the sailor, so we might figure that he wasn’t a pale face male. Otherwise we’d be hearing about neo NAZI’s, white supremacists, et al.

    • Agree: Polistra
    • Replies: @Alice in Wonderland
  39. Cato says:
    @Hockamaw

    I’ve heard, from people who claimed to know, that the Air Force is still able to get quality recruits, that the Marines do fairly well, that the Army is getting by, but the Navy has serious problems.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
  40. @Polistra

    N.vWe have to destroy this country in order to save it because That’s Who We Are Now.

  41. Polistra says:
    @Alice in Wonderland

    if the guilty person is convicted

    Just listen to yourself. Can you hear yourself? So racist.

    Guilt, convicted, due process… smdh dude.

    I say we punish whoever’s white.

    • Thanks: Stan d Mute
  42. Polistra says:
    @epebble

    Till recently, they were routinely banging their ships to other ships due to poor navigation and maneuvering skills.

    Not true, racist! The crew were just distracted by the new season of Netflix.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
  43. Polistra says:
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Joni Mitchell too? Damn, you’s straight-up sadistic, man! Love it!

  44. Kyle says:

    Thank god for all of those 4’10” 98lb hispanic females enlisted in the marine corps fighting for our freedoms. Eisenhower was not off base when he warned us about the military industrial complex. President Kyle would downsize the military and upsize the nuclear arsenal. An aircraft carrier is a sitting duck to an anti ship missle. I think, maybe I’m wrong. Our best & brightest aren’t working for General Motors or Tesla. Even if I’m totally wrong about downsizing the military, we can’t afford it anymore, we’re $30 trillion in debt. Somehow, someway the budget must be cut. Where do we start?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    , @Alfa158
    , @CCZ
  45. Wilkey says:

    So basically in the event of war, our entire military is compromised by its diversity.

    It’s ironic that over the summer lefty types were referring to WW2 soldiers as “Antifa,” because if we had the political beliefs then that we have today the fascists would have won.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    , @Anonymous
  46. Neoconned says:

    How can 1 idiot cause that much damage…..

    And with what? Gasoline & matches? Metal doesn’t burn that easily….

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    , @anon
    , @Buffalo Joe
  47. Wilkey says:
    @Louis Renault

    By the time Notre Dame renovations are complete they will be ready to turn it into a mosque.

    • Agree: JMcG, flyingtiger
  48. BenKenobi says:
    @Wilkey

    the fascists would have won

    Yeah, that would have been awful.

  49. Anonymous[790] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey

    So basically in the event of war, our entire military is compromised by its diversity.

    Could you explain what you mean?

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    , @Neuday
  50. raga10 says:
    @obwandiyag

    I don’t understand. What’s wrong with burning an aircraft carrier?

    Absolutely nothing; actually Russia is having the same problem after their Admiral Kuznetsov caught fire while in the dock. The difference is that Kuznetsov is their only carrier, while USA has quite a few and USS Bonhomme Richard is not even one of them – as the article correctly states, it is actually an amphibious attack ship.

  51. @Thomas

    “This ship was roughly 10% of the U.S. Navy’s ability to land Marines somewhere in the event of, say, a conflict with China in the Western Pacific.”

    something that will never, ever happen. 100 nuclear missiles will fly before 1 US marine puts his boot on mainland China.

    they don’t need 8 of these just like they don’t need 11 carriers. yes, i’m aware that these ships are out of action for repairs half the time, so you need twice as many as you appear to need, et cetera. they just don’t need this many ships for anything, not even force projection. a few less ships will work exactly the same.

    the submarine fleet is about 80% of what matters. the surface fleet is used for conflicts with nations that can’t send missiles back.

    • Replies: @Thomas
  52. @JohnnyWalker123

    Notredame didn’t commit suicide.

    That’s for sure!

  53. Whenever a large ship in the US navy is damaged as badly as this one was, decision-makers should decide against replacing it.

    There’s no point in spending billions on large surface ships in the age of the missile. Most could be sent to the bottom on the first day of hostilities against an adversary with several hundred much less expensive missiles…

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  54. Mr. Anon says:

    An unidentified sailor is the focus of the investigation of the suspected arson, which, perhaps coincidentally, took place around the height of the BLM/Antifa Mostly Peaceful Protests.

    Pour encourager l’autre.

    In order to encourage “the other”.

  55. Bill H says:
    @PiltdownMan

    “An uncontrollable fire like this one is among sailors’ worst fears,” he said, adding that’s why ships are designed to have so many compartments that can be closed off quickly with airtight doors.

    Well, no. The compartmentalization is for the purpose of controlling flooding and to prevent sinking.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  56. Mr. Anon says:

    The fire on the USS Forrestal in 1967 did massive damage and killed 139 sailors. The ship was repaired and continued in service until 1993.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Forrestal_(CV-59)

    What’s wrong with the Navy today and/or it’s ships?

  57. Mr. Anon says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Fox News “journalist” Shepard Smith shut down a Frenchman who speculated that the Notre Dame fire might’ve been set by an arsonist.

    To be fair, Smith can certainly recognize a Flamer when he sees one.

  58. @Buffalo Joe

    Well it’s only 3 billion and will give a repair crew, probably civilian workers, 5 to 7 years of work. The private economy will probably take half as long to recover. Spend the money, create the jobs.

    Trump was supposed to get us some serious infrastructure improvement. (Another bit that got back burnered.)

    I’m all for stimulus if it’s called for, but lets get some useful stuff out of it. One of the joys of the minoritarians immigrationism is jamming ever more people onto our same infrastructure while tax money gets siphoned off to pay for the immigrants “social services”–welfare, medical care, criminal justice and the biggest of course being public education for their kids.)

  59. Altai says:

    The currently only aircraft carrier in the Russian fleet, Admiral Kuznetsov was also taken out by a fire during a refit which comes after another serious accident and previous fires raising questions of if it will be repaired this time. So far it looks like it will have been taken out of commission for at least 3 years if not totally written off.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_aircraft_carrier_Admiral_Kuznetsov

    As of November 2020, the Admiral Kuznetsov is out of service for a refit. In November 2018, it suffered a collision with a 70 ton crane of PD-50 floating dry dock and a fire that killed two during the refit. The dock sank after a power outage while holding the Admiral Kuznetsov. The dock was vital to repairing the Admiral Kuznetsov. It is currently not expected to re-enter service until 2022 at the earliest.

    In December 2019, a major fire broke out on board Admiral Kuznetsov as work continued on the ship’s refit. Two people died and fourteen suffered injuries from the fire and smoke inhalation. The fire damage aboard Admiral Kuznetsov is estimated at 500 million rubles. The ship was not expected to return to active operations until at least 2022/2023.

    It actually occurs to me to be a very good sabotage strategy to knock out expensive key assets that take a long time to rebuild. Just pilot a few little drones filled with incendiaries during a refit at night and watch your enemy lose a potentially key military asset in a way that has deniability and real-life precedence.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    , @Old Prude
  60. BenKenobi says:
    @Altai

    it suffered a collision with a 70 ton crane of PD-50 floating dry dock and a fire that killed two during the refit. The dock sank after a power outage while holding the Admiral Kuznetsov

    When I read things like that my first thought is usually “Corey and Trevor, you f*cked up.”

  61. Kronos says:
    @Alice in Wonderland

    Go full BLM on a ship. Get lynched.

    Al Sharpton will love the optics.

    • Replies: @Alice in Wonderland
  62. Mr. Anon says:

    The Navy has decided to scrap the USS Bonhomme Richard,…..

    I have not yet begun to…………ah, to Hell with it!

    • LOL: donut
    • Replies: @anonymous
  63. Mr. Anon says:
    @Neoconned

    And with what? Gasoline & matches? Metal doesn’t burn that easily….

    Aluminum does under the right conditions. Magnesium even more so.

  64. @Alice in Wonderland

    What makes you think it was a “he”?

  65. Altai says:
    @Patrick in SC

    There’s very clear video evidence that it was an ondeck accidental firing of a rocket from a rocket pod from an F-4 into the fuel tank of an A-4. John McCain just missed being hit by the rocket it and just missed being in the heart of the subsequent fires. McCain’s plane was obliterated in the subsequent explosion but he didn’t face any fire blocking his path to safety so he got out quickly.

    I believe the conspiracy is that McCain fired some of his ordinance and this was covered up but the origin of the main fire doesn’t support this nor does the admittedly blurry and indirect video of the initial explosion. (The main evidence is from a reflection in the video before the camera is turned on the fire)

    • Replies: @donut
    , @Chris Mallory
    , @Lurker
  66. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Yes, good points. I was thinking along similar lines.
    One huge advantage the US had over the Japanese Navy was the US’s cutting edge fire/damage control systems.
    The Enterprise is, indeed, an inspiring story.

  67. Thomas says:
    @prime noticer

    Who said anything about mainland China? I’m talking about the South China Sea and the “Great Wall of Sand” the ChiComs have been seeking to build right through the world’s most important shipping lane. Submarines can’t take land or control airspace. Nor can the US count on perpetual dominance based only its submarines, especially in the littorals. Smart money is on the next world war possibly seeing another island-hopping campaign (though at a much, much faster tempo than the last one).

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8872631/US-Marines-running-island-hopping-exercises-fears-future-war-China.html

  68. @Polistra

    Maybe God did it — he wouldn’t be short on reasons & motivations, would he?

  69. @Anon

    The sprinklers had been shut down for maintenance?
    May take a couple of looks, but that statement (ie the fact, not the words) is utterly un-fucking-believable.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  70. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:

    FLASHBACK: The olden War Nerd explains why aircraft carriers are obsolete in a significant war scenario:

    http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/all/1/

    • Replies: @Cortes
  71. Oh well, Bonhomme Richard sounds racist anyway.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @hartpence
  72. Old Prude says:
    @Hockamaw

    73 cadets caught cheating, and they won’t be expelled, but hey, we shut out Navy this year, so all is right with the world.

    [MORE]

    December 30, 2020

    Members of the Long Gray Line,

    Last Spring, while in remote learning environments away from the United States Military Academy, 73 Cadets were accused of violating the Cadet Honor Code by cheating on a calculus final. Of these 73 Cadets, 72 are from the class of ’23 and one is from the class of ’22. All but one of these young men and women were in the tenth month of their 47-month leader development journey.

    These Cadets chose the easier wrong over the harder right.

    As the Superintendent, I own this cheating incident. Furthermore, I and every leader at West Point own their role in developing leaders of character.

    The standards established by the Cadet Honor Code have not changed and the Honor System receives my personal investment of time and attention. West Point takes every Honor Code violation seriously.

    The incident involves a cross-section of Cadets from the Corps. They represent multiple companies. Some are athletes and some are Preparatory School Graduates. They include Division I Athletes from nine different teams and athletes from three different club squad teams. This incident is not isolated within one club, team, company, or regiment.

    The strength, power and uniqueness of the West Point Leader Development Model is that while here on these hallowed grounds, we place our young men and women in the toughest, most demanding academic, military, physical, and character programs that shape, forge, and mold these young men and women into officers over time. The professors, both civilian and military, the staff, the Tactical Officers and Noncommissioned Officers, and our coaches are all mission essential role models that drive how we develop leaders of character.

    The global pandemic disrupted our developmental process. In an instant, our tried and tested leadership model was interrupted and for a short time the Corps was dispersed to 4400 locations around the world. In this environment our Cadets were void of those critical developmental engagements in the barracks, in the classrooms, and on the athletic fields that help them understand themselves and increase their commitment to the West Point and Army values. Our plebes are the most vulnerable to the effects of losing the inspiration and accountability of an in person cohesive team.

    Even though the environment changed, there is still no excuse for the actions of these Cadets; their actions are antithetical to the same honor code upheld by generations of USMA graduates.

    These Cadets were notified of the allegations in May, and not incepted into the Honor System until September because the Corps was away from the Academy grounds. The Class of 2021 Honor Committee returned to West Point in August to receive training and to begin processing other cases already incepted. The Honor Committee is handling every case in compliance with the established sequence that ensures due process for every accused Cadet. Barring unforeseen circumstances, we expect all cases related to this cheating incident to be complete by April 2021.

    As many of you know, over time the Honor System has changed from an attritional model to a developmental model. Since the publication of the findings of the Borman Commission in 1976, Superintendents have used discretion regarding separation for an Honor violation.

    In the Spring of 2016, the Academy developed the Willful Admission Process (WAP) to encourage Cadets to take responsibility for their actions and reduce the barriers to reporting honor violations. In addition to losing rank and privileges, all Cadets granted discretion are enrolled in the Special Leader Development Program for Honor (SLDP-H). SLDP-H requires completion of a rigorous program of personal reflection and growth that is roughly equivalent to a 2.0 credit course. They do so under the tutelage of an assigned developmental coach who volunteers about 50 hours of coaching. If Cadets do not demonstrate growth in SLDP-H, they will be separated from the Academy.

    In January 2020, I directed that we establish the Character Integration and Advisory Group (CIAG). Its purpose is to elevate, develop, and integrate character education across all of our developmental programs. In October 2020, I directed the CIAG and the Superintendent’s Honor Review Committee to conduct a bottom-up review of the cadet honor process and to assess the overall effectiveness of the Cadet Honor Code and the Honor System. The purpose is to ensure the Cadet Honor Code and Honor System are effectively and efficiently achieving the character development goals articulated in West Point’s strategic documents.

    Developing leaders of character has been, and remains, my top priority for the Academy. We remain committed to the outcomes of the West Point Leader Development System, which is to graduate commissioned officers who live honorably, lead honorably, and demonstrate excellence.

    Our West Point Honor Code has been and will always remain the very core of our institution.

    Darryl A. Williams
    Lieutenant General, U.S. Army
    Superintendent

    • Thanks: bomag
    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @AndrewR
  73. Old Prude says:
    @Altai

    When the US got up and cranking during WWII they found they could build new ships faster than repair the damaged ones. That’s pretty much true for any efficient manufacturing process, (efficient being the key word).

    • Replies: @Matt Buckalew
  74. I’d say that aircraft carriers will soon become obsolete. Of course, I don’t know when ….

    • Replies: @Altai
    , @Kronos
  75. donut says:
    @Altai

    The Navy has a long and proud tradition of finding scapegoats to cover up the incompetence of the higher ups .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  76. tyrone says:
    @Alice in Wonderland

    OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!……sorry couldn’t help myself…..more likely to get a statue in kamala’s America ……plenty of empty plinths sitting around.

    • Agree: bomag
  77. black sea says:

    This is unfortunate, but the loss of one Amphibious Assault Ship doesn’t rate among the top 100 problems facing America. In fact, given the direction the country is going in, I’d feel safer with fewer naval ships.

    • Replies: @tyrone
  78. @animalogic

    The Japanese philosophy in WWII was that if something bad happened to you, like your ship caught fire, you probably deserved it, so prepare to die a dignified death worthy of a samurai.

    The American philosophy was to put out the fire.

    • Agree: Servant of Gla'aki
  79. @International Jew

    Oh, I’m glad to see you. I’ve long since read about you in the Henry Ford’s classic, but Steve simply wouldn’t let me post my aunty-Semitic reading list.

    So …. if you’re an anti-judaist, enjoy! If not- become one! You don’t know what you’re missing …..

  80. tyrone says:
    @black sea

    Maybe we just lost the war …… yeah, we did……….major weapons: viruses and voting machines……OH!, and don’t forget skate boards and well positioned pallets of bricks.

  81. @prime noticer

    not nearly as bad of a deal as Space Launch System though. 2 BILLION dollars PER LAUNCH? even Apollo launches only cost 1 billion dollars in apples to apples dollars. how did things get twice as expensive?

    Workforce diversity … more mistakes to fix.

    • Replies: @prime noticer
  82. Pericles says:
    @Polistra

    I just know you’re going to say Ghislaine Maxwell did it.

    Poor old Jizzers, why hasn’t she been quietly released yet due to Covid in prison?

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
  83. Pericles says:
    @Trelane

    How do things made of steel “catch fire’ and take 4 days to put out?

    You really have to hope that sort of ship doesn’t get shot with some sort of hot, explosive projectile.

    • Thanks: Cortes
  84. @Kyle

    Actually, spend a little more on the Navy, Space Force, and Marine Corps, the same on the Air Force, and slash the Army.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
  85. @animalogic

    Sometimes you have to replace parts.

  86. BB753 says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The freemasonic cabale that runs France since 1789 did it.

  87. Hibernian says:
    @Old Prude

    Even though the environment changed, there is still no excuse for the actions of these Cadets; their actions are antithetical to the same honor code upheld by generations of USMA graduates.

    The Superintendent made an excuse for them and then said there was no excuse. Classic talking out of both sides of his mouth and not a good example for future military leaders to follow, to say the least.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
  88. Mike Tre says:
    @Abe

    Coincidentally, the namer of the original Bonhomme Richard was John Paul Jones, which is also the exact name of John Bonham’s band mate John Paul Jones.

    • Thanks: Abe
  89. hartpence says:
    @International Jew

    but it sounds pro LGBTHKLMODGBZXDF so its ok

  90. 68W58 says:
    @prosa123

    My brother-in-law was on a Los Angeles class sub that was broken up at Portsmouth NH. The steel was going to be used for skyscraper construction in earthquake prone areas.

  91. @Polistra

    Putin set the Notre Dame fire. Putin also sabotaged the Bonhomme Richard. Personally.

    Putin always has at least one of his Russian fingers in everything that goes wrong in the West. And that black man who defecated in Nancy Pelosi’s driveway a few weeks back? Putin again. This time in cunning disguise.

    It’s always Putin.

    • Agree: Old Prude
  92. anonymous[192] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    John Paul Jones while serving in the Russian Navy wrote a letter confessing to statutory rape of a 12 year old girl.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
  93. dearieme says:
    @epebble

    It is amazing that … [a] person could effectively takeout a nuclear submarine by setting fire to a pile of rags.

    You’re easily amazed.

  94. Altai says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Obsolete when fighting a peer enemy. It might take quite a while for hypersonic missiles to come into use outside the biggest military spenders. (And what political consequences countries might face for even just buying them off Russia or China) And it’s been 50 years since the US sent a carrier against a country that had any real air defense let alone ways to strike back at the carriers themselves.

    • Replies: @raga10
  95. David says:
    @Thomas

    The US Coast Guard icebreaker Healy, the Coast Guard’s largest vessel, had an engine fire last August and will be out of commission for a few years. Their other big icebreaker is in Antarctica, meaning 100% of the US’s ability to patrol its arctic coast, for whatever that’s worth, is out of town or out of order.

    In 2012, a female officer in charge of scuba diving on the Healy got herself and a subordinate killed by violating just about every dive protocol there was. She didn’t even have a valid dive cert! If she’d lived, she would have been convicted of manslaughter for killing the other guy.

    The Coast Guard investigated the incident for 7 years, concluding that she’d messed up in every way and lied to her commander. But that they would completely revamp their diving protocols, the ones that if she’d followed in the first place, would have prevented the deaths.

  96. Momus says:
    @Trelane

    Welding and cutting is a 2000 degree f plus process.

    Electric cables, painted surfaces, stores and onboard fuel- a million gallons, in this case which didn’t ignite, all like to burn.

  97. George says:

    This is a recurring problem in the current navy. I am not buying the sabotage theory. The plan to remove construction waste from the ship was inadequate or nonexistent.

    2 ships rammed by merchant ships.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crystal_collision

    USS John S McCain: U.S. Destroyer Collides With Tanker Off Singapore; 10 Missing
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/navy-destroyer-uss-john-s-mccain-collides-merchant-ship-east-n794386

    Hey iSteve, are these incidents manifestations of the declining American IQ? I noticed articles on these incidents mention who was in charge. As far as I can tell no one is demoted or punished for any of these incidents, is that true?

    • Replies: @Cortes
  98. I see no one is prepared to admit the truth.
    Bomb Iran Now!

  99. @Reg Cæsar

    The Groves of Academe have inculcated such heights of malice and hatred that the go-to assumption should now be reversed.

    • Agree: Hibernian
  100. @Abe

    Great Idea. We could use the names to celebrate Diversity. The USS Liberace would strike fear anywhere. etc….

  101. Anon[222] • Disclaimer says:

    Eight white sailers promoted in recognition of their actions fighting the fire onboard.

    https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6322458/bhr-sailors-maped-next-paygrade

    • Replies: @Old Prude
  102. Wilkey says:
    @Anonymous

    I mean that you have a military full of potential subversives, loyal to the enemy, anyone one of whom could massacre their platoon or sink a $13 billion aircraft carrier loaded with billions of dollars worth of fighter aircraft.

    • Replies: @epebble
    , @Mr. Anon
    , @Rich
  103. OT – judge Vanessa Baraitser (fine old English name, that) says Assange cannot be extradited.

    “I find that the mental condition of Mr Assange is such that it would be oppressive to extradite him to the United States of America,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/04/julian-assange-cannot-be-extradited-to-us-british-judge-rules

    I hope he is freed, but by the sound of it the process has been the punishment.

  104. @Altai

    The rumor was that McCain did a hot dog move by causing his engine to flame. The act has a name, but I am to lazy to look it up. Supposedly his flame set off the missile on the plane behind him.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  105. jb says:

    I’m a little disturbed that our assault ships are that flammable. I’m not sure I’d want to ride one into actual combat.

  106. AndrewR says:
    @Old Prude

    Expulsion over one cheating incident is silly. Instead I would make the punishment so unpleasant that at least a few of them would drop out voluntarily, that the rest would never even contemplate cheating again, and that the rest of the student body had a clear understanding of the consequences.

  107. Who torched Notre Dame?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  108. @animalogic

    The Japanese aircraft carriers also had wooden decks if IRC. Not very flame retardant as it turns out.

  109. Neuday says:
    @Anonymous

    Considering what’s being taught in schools and media it is inconceivable that any young White man is signing up to potentially sacrifice his life for this shit-circus of a country with Commander-in-Chief Kamala Harris. Join the Coast Guard or National Guard perhaps, but the Treasury’s been looted and the demographics will demand cuts to .mil before any cuts to the Welfare State.

  110. @Flimpkin-4

    There’s no point in spending billions on large surface ships in the age of the missile.

    Unless you are a defense contractor–then there is a point–big profits.

    Defense contractors have brilliant and amazing lobbyists–the spice must flow!

    (Discussions of military strategy and public policy in the age of kleptocracy are very quaint and somewhat amusing.)

  111. It sounds like the Navy needs to practice basic firefighting skills. Warships are kinda-sorta supposed to be doing things where they might catch fire.

  112. epebble says:
    @Wilkey

    The problem with our military is incompetence, not subversives. Has been true since Vietnam days but has accelerated in 21st century. The Iraq and Afghanistan fiascoes are just the latest cherries on ice cream.

  113. Jack D says:
    @Alice in Wonderland

    Since no one died, I don’t see any grounds for the death penalty. They don’t even have a suspect.

    Current military execution calls for lethal injection but I don’t think they have executed anyone since 1961. Ronald Gray (guess what color he is?) killed 4 and was sentenced to die in 1988 but his case has been “tied up in appeals” ever since then. It’s only been 32 years. At this rate, Gray will die of old age before he is executed.

    Justice in America is a joke. Everything is a joke. We can’t execute a confessed mass murderer and rapist, we can’t fix a ship, we can’t do anything. We are fortunate that we live in the nuclear age where other powers are afraid of invading or else the Chinese would pick us like ripe fruit one day soon. They may anyway. They are snickering into their sleeves every time they hear about something like this. China has its own problems but someone like Gray would have been tried and executed in a matter of months and the ship would be fixed in a matter of months also and for millions not billions. The US has a much larger nominal defense budget than China but the Chinese are getting a lot more bang for their buck.

  114. Old Prude says:
    @Hibernian

    There is more than a mouthful of mealy-mouthed weaseling in the USMA Superintendant’s letter. This is three-star weaseling, so he is well-practiced. Admirals and generals mouth lofty platitudes about duty and honor, but most all of them are unprincipled, willfully ignorant, self-serving sissies when it comes to confronting the prevailing orthodoxies of globo-homo DIE.

  115. Old Prude says:
    @Redneck farmer

    President Kyle, don’t listen to that Jarhead. He’s not trained to do heavy thinking: Eliminate the Navy and her retarded little brother. Reduce the Chair-force to missile men, and retain a small cadre of junior Army officers as cadre for a home defense militia.

    Seeing as how we have been successfully invaded by a Mexican peasant army already, there is no point to our outrageous defense budget.

  116. Lurker says:
    @Brian Reilly

    Scrap metal is literally rusting in the junkyard!

  117. Lurker says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Immigrant incompetence is just as plausible an explanation as immigrant arson.

    Quite so. The malice is merely one step removed. Since we can take the incompetence as a given we should switch our attention to the actual sabotage – who let them in?

  118. @Old Prude

    For certain small ships sure and it was more that there were far more available assembly line workers than there were people that could conduct repairs. The Yorktown’s repairs after Coral Sea were far faster than a new carrier could have been constructed.

    • Thanks: Old Prude
  119. Lurker says:
    @Altai

    Seems to me laying the blame for the rocket launch on McCain is a straw man, sort of overcharging to muddy the waters.

    The real charge is that, having escaped the initial incident he played little or no part in damage control efforts and departed the ship at first opportunity, hitching a ride on a helicopter carrying journalists headed back to South Vietnam. Dereliction of duty and then desertion?

  120. @The Alarmist

    Space Launch System is mostly pork from what i can tell. they got rid of the Space Shuttle because they got tired of paying for it. but even Space Shuttle ‘only’ cost about 500 million per launch.

    so how in the world does deliberately reusing most of the Space Shuttle stuff make it cost 4 times as much? just use SpaceX, or ULA. SLS has wasted like 17 billion already.

    there isn’t much diversity involved in BUILDING SLS as far as i can tell, which is still also the case for building new ships and submarines for the Navy. we’re not talking about the crews.

  121. @animalogic

    American fire control- automated aiming of the ships guns- was state of the art their fire suppression “technology” was really just having an integrated damage control plan- Japanese damage control was divided throughout the ship by role.

    Honestly the Japanese kind of understood that if it ever got to the point where damage control mattered they had already lost the war. It’s like if you had to construct a football team able to go up 42 or more-0 before half time or lose you wouldn’t even bother with field goal kicking.

  122. Jack D says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Could it be the guys with the literal torches in their hands, who were working on the roof? Guys who work with torches (roofers, plumbers, welders, etc.) set a lot of buildings on fire. Often an ember will drop down and smolder until they go home for the night.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @Buffalo Joe
  123. @Thomas

    “Who said anything about mainland China?”

    i guess i don’t understand how those Wasp class ships won’t get sunk by Chinese missiles before they can launch any Marine helicopters. i’m under this weird impression that missiles can fly a lot further and faster than helicopters, can be sent in volleys of dozens, and the Wasp carriers will be sunk in exactly the same way as Nimitz carriers if they get within range. they’ll probably be able to shoot all the helicopters out of the sky, too.

    not one US Marine will ever set foot on any land that the Chinese military doesn’t want them to set foot on. Marines are TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to war with a serious opponent. hence, the surface fleet remains not very relevant in such a conflict. they might be able to setup in stand off range and try to exchange cruise missiles, or, if it’s 2035, hypersonic missiles or fire from the rail gun, but they’re sunk as soon as they take some hits.

    SEALs coming out of submarines might happen, though. still not that relevant, but they could sabotage some missile installations or laser targets for JDAMs. that’s very minor details stuff of course, because by the time that happens, the United States will be a smoldering radioactive ruin.

    as an Army guy myself, i can say with confidence there just won’t be much infantry action in a real conflict with China. the Army itself will basically have no role. Red Dawn was a fun movie, the reality will be missiles flying and that’s that.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Thomas
  124. @Pericles

    She wants to stay in. She’s probably making a small fortune as a one-woman Joy Division (and “facilitator” for others lacking her entrepreneurial talents).

    You think those legal bills just pay themselves?

  125. 36 ulster says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Ah, The Life of (Sir) Brian, Diplomat to the World. Urquhart was an intelligence officer with the British First Airborne Division. Upon reviewing some photos taken by the RAF in the Arnhem, Holland area, he noticed the presence of German tanks and armored vehicles not far from the British paras’ drop and landing areas. They belonged to the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, which were re-forming in a “quiet” area, having escaped the Falaise Pocket after enduring heavy losses in the brutal Normandy battles. Major Urquhart tried to sound the alarm to General Browning, the Airborne Corps commander and his staff. After many previous cancellations, the paratroop officers were in no mood for a Cassandra warning of potential doom. His warnings were dismissed and he wasn’t “invited” to the airborne invasion, Operation Market-Garden, which resulted in most of the British paras being killed or captured, many of the latter being wounded. Not long after the war, he went on to the UN, being, I believe, the third staffer hired by the organization. In the movie A Bridge Too Far, Urquhart’s character in renamed “Major Fuller,” to avoid any confusion with the commander of the 1st Airborne, General Sir Robert “Roy” Urquhart.

  126. anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    The Japanese philosophy in WWII was that if something bad happened to you, like your ship caught fire, you probably deserved it, so prepare to die a dignified death worthy of a samurai.

    The American philosophy was to put out the fire.

    If you can’t win, gleefully ride the ship to the ocean’s bottom.

    And George Takai still unselfconciously laments being put into a concentration camp as a. devilish boy.

    The Japanese had to betrayed America, as Takai had to betray William Shatner.

  127. Alfa158 says:
    @Kyle

    Where are they finding Hispanic females who are 4’10” and only weigh 98 pounds? The ones I see that height are roly-poly Central American Indians. The American born, junk food fed, Mexican heritage Hispanic women are typically around 5’4” and 175.
    I would start cutting the budget by:
    – bringing almost all the legions home. Tom Clancy had passed away and The Red Army is not going to be charging through the Fulda Gap and racing to The Channel. South Korea can build their own military up a little more and deter the NORKs. Declare victory in Iraq and Afghanistan, pull everyone out and have a big parade down the Capital mall. The millions of collaborating locals we will have to allow in to avoid retribution will be happy to comprise the cheering crowds.
    – get rid of most of the carrier battle groups which are useless against any non Third World opponents, and cut the overall fleet in half. If we have to keep blowing up huts it can be done more cheaply with drones.

    • Agree: Bugg, Rob
  128. Rich says:
    @Wilkey

    Sgt Hasan Ahkbar, a black American soldier, killed 2 and wounded 14 of his fellow soldiers with a hand grenade in Kuwait about 15 years ago. He was sentenced to death, probably got early release due to covid and racism by now. Trump might even have pardoned him to make Kanye’s baby mama happy.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
  129. anon[419] • Disclaimer says:
    @Neoconned

    And with what? Gasoline & matches? Metal doesn’t burn that easily….

    Dry paint on a bulkhead will burn. Plastic cable coverings will also burn. Etc.
    It’s not the metal per se, but all the stuff on and around the metal.

  130. Not Raul says:
    @Cato

    Why would the Navy do worse than the other services? Do people not like boats anymore?

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Cato
    , @S. Anonyia
  131. Not Raul says:
    @Thomas

    Submarines can’t take land or control airspace.

    In the event of a war with China, surface ships won’t be able to do either within 500 miles of China.

    In theory, it might be possible to land Marines near the Strait of Malacca; but only if China hasn’t set up missiles in the vicinity first.

  132. Wilkey says:

    The newest aircraft carriers cost $13 billion to build. That doesn’t count the dozens of $100 million+ fighter jets you have to buy to make them useful, and infinite other ongoing maintenance and manpower costs involved. Anyone who has ever owned a ski boat can tell you how much the maintenance costs on even a small water-going vessel can run.

    Assuming a wall along our 2,000 mile (~ 11 million foot) border with Mexico costs even $3,000 per foot, you could build that wall for less than the cost of two aircraft carriers and the aircraft needed to equip them. The wall would defend us from illegal invasion. What the carriers are defending us from is a mystery.

    Of course a 2,000 mile wall would be en engineering impossibility, say people who don’t think twice about hopping on I-90 (3,020 miles long), I-95 (1,908 miles), I-80 (2,900 miles), I-10 (2,460 miles) or I-40 (2,559 miles); and also an inhumane insult to Mexico, say people who live in gated communities with fences around their yards and locks on their doors.

  133. Wilkey says:
    @Rich

    Indeed. And a decade ago hardly a month went by that there wasn’t a story about some member of the American-trained Afghan or Iraqi armies shooting up their barracks. And they were hardly diverse, by American standards.

    The worst part is it has probably become verboten to dare to question anyone you might suspect of having anti-American beliefs. The Fort Hood shooter dropped plenty of hints without being stopped. But don’t you dare have a tattoo of the Confederate Battle Flag…

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  134. prosa123 says:
    @Jack D

    Since no one died, I don’t see any grounds for the death penalty. They don’t even have a suspect.

    Turns out that the dockyard worker who started the fire that destroyed the USS Miami submarine got off pretty easy. Just 17 years in federal prison, which probably will mean five years and then free as a bird on parole.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  135. Jack D says:
    @prosa123

    There is no parole for Federal crimes. There is time off for good behavior but that would only cut 2 or 3 years from a 17 yr. sentence.

  136. @Wilkey

    What are

    anti-American beliefs?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
  137. Dan Hayes says:
    @Jack D

    I understand that there on many fire prohibition restrictions on major restoration projects of this type. But human nature being what it is………

  138. @JimB

    Tie him in a stress position on the poop deck and leave him until he has a fatal heart attack.

    I appreciate your anger, but we’re not Third World savages. A quick death by firing squad, or the noose, is the greatest penalty we should ever seek.

    But we should damn well seek it in this case.

    • Agree: Chris Mallory
  139. Vlad III says:

    Unrelated, but here’s some ISteve content from NPR: apparently the children’s music category is too white for modern sensibilities: https://www.npr.org/2021/01/04/951420019/3-grammy-contenders-share-outrage-at-all-white-category-decline-nominations

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  140. @Polistra

    Or it was that time of the month.

    • Replies: @Charon
  141. J.Ross says:
    @Steve Sailer

    That’s a vaguely accurate idea stretched to wild inaccuracy for no reason.

  142. @Steve Sailer

    Japanese sailors fought battle damage and fires just as diligently as their American counterparts. The problem was at the top: the IJN was intended and built as a blue-water strike force, but somehow in 1942 their high command was lured into highly attritive slug-fests with mixed land-based and carrier-borne American forces, first at Midway and then over the course of five months of the Solomons/Guadalcanal campaign, which proved decisive. The USN was after all defending the South Pacific sea-lanes to Australia/NZ, a potential conquest that Tokyo had already deemed non-essential early in 1942.

    Someone in a position of influence, probably Yamamoto, should have clued in when Japanese naval formations came under attack from B-17s flying out of bases in the Solomons, and concluded that this was not the right time and place for the decisive engagement with the Allies in the Pacific.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    , @Fluesterwitz
  143. @Alice in Wonderland

    Alice, a friend of mine was a USN sailor and he did a Caribbean tour. While in Hamilton, Bermuda years ago, he witnessed the British Navy execute a sailor. They pulled him up by the neck from a yard arm. Yikes. That will get the crew’s attention.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Jack D
    , @Wilkey
    , @The Mestizo
  144. @Abe

    Abe, picture POTUS kamala harris smashing a bottle of Henneseys on the bow of the USS barack obama.

  145. @Neoconned

    Neo, In response to your comment…”how can one idiot cause so much damage?” ,,,I give you the choice, choose just one…andrew cuomo, gavin newsom, or bill diblasio.

    • Agree: Neoconned
  146. bomag says:
    @Not Raul

    Why would the Navy do worse than the other services?

    I have a little contact with the services. The others have been able to keep their traditions a bit more than the Navy, which embraced political correctness more enthusiastically than the others.

    But it varies within each service. Our infantry units are still rather decent, which probably gives China et al pause; they’ll just have to keep buying Joe and Hunter Biden.

    • Replies: @Cato
  147. Anon[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Alice, a friend of mine was a USN sailor and he did a Caribbean tour. While in Hamilton, Bermuda years ago, he witnessed the British Navy execute a sailor. They pulled him up by the neck from a yard arm. Yikes. That will get the crew’s attention.

    This was probably not an FOM (friend of mine) but rather the ubiquitous FOAF (friend of a friend), the purveyor of all urban legends. Your friend’s friend’s friend’s friend’s … friend witnessed this.

    The last hanging by the Royal Navy was in 1860.

    The final and obviously most severe punishment was death by hanging at the yard-arm. This was the ultimate punishment for desertion or mutiny against the fleet.

    Naval ships could not suffer the possibility of rebellion going unchallenged. The likelihood of death by slow hanging was a real deterrent.

    Being a capital punishment, sailors could not be sentenced to hanging without an official Court Martial. Here, they were given an opportunity to plead their case in front of a panel of high-ranking officers. If found guilty, their punishment was gruesome.

    Their hands and feet would be bound, to prevent any possibility of escape. Then a noose would be placed around their neck.

    That line would run through a tackle, or pulley, hanging from the yard-arm (a large pole going across the mast).

    A team of sailors would then solemnly and slowly haul on that line until the sailor’s body was hanging right below the yard-arm.

    This was done as a powerful deterrent, and the entire crew was made to watch, and understand what was happening.

    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/history/royal-navy-kept-order-caning-flogging-hanging.html

  148. Anon[245] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    I found this Thomas Sowell opinion piece from 2005 linked to by a commenter at Marginal Revolution. It appears to be the first use of “tragic dirt” in reference to Africa:

    Nature and man have combined to make Africa the most tragic of the continents — and the men who did this have been both black and white.

    https://www.deseret.com/2005/7/14/19902079/thomas-sowell-geography-and-man-have-all-but-killed-africa

  149. @SaneClownPosse

    They aren’t identifying the sailor, so we might figure that he wasn’t a pale face male. Otherwise we’d be hearing about neo NAZI’s, white supremacists, et al.

    Exactly.

    If he were white, it would be on TV 24/7. They would be coming to you live from his parents front yard and from the elementary school his little sister attends.

  150. raga10 says:
    @Altai

    Hypersonic missiles are hard to destroy by conventional means, which is why everybody is working on laser weapons. Light still moves faster than any missile! Laser weapons are also more useful against the other likely threat: swarms of small drone-like devices that might be too numerous and too cheap to tackle with expensive anti-aircraft missiles but could be effectively and efficiently zapped with laser.

    So don’t count larger vessels out just yet!

    Actually there is another serious threat: those long-range nuclear powered and nuclear armed torpedoes Russians are allegedly working on. But even if they are hard to deal with it still doesn’t mean that large ships couldn’t come in handy in other conflicts that don’t involve Russians.

    • Replies: @Altai
  151. @epebble

    All this ship banging was due to unsynchronized menstrual cycles of the commandatrixes on the respective bridges.

  152. @Kronos

    death penalty for treason ≠ lynching

    • Agree: Servant of Gla'aki
  153. Some say the Lizard King might be behind it.


    “Captain Morrison and his son Jim on the bridge of the Bon Homme Richard in January 1964”

    Come on baby, light my fire
    Come on baby, light my fire
    Try to set the night on fire, yeah

    (And yes, I know the Morrisons were photographed aboard the USS Bon Homme Richard (CV-31), the aircraft carrier commissioned in 1944, not the USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6), the assault ship commissioned in 1998. But who cares about facts?)

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
  154. The US defense budget should be around $25B.

    But then how would the Republicans ever fill their campaign war chests?

  155. @Jack D

    Jack, I have been on more than one construction site were sparks from a torch or welding started big fires. You usually don’t have much more than some fire extinquishers in the tool box or the change trailers for fire fighting. Some plants have hose stations and fire crews, but not all do. I was at the Tonawanda Coke plant when an enormous fire started that burned for days. We piled into a stake side work truck and crashed through a fence. Butane,methane,tar are all by-products of coke ovens. The tar tanks ruptured and the now free flowing tar entrapped fire engines and hose lines. Scary! Threw out my undershorts.

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
  156. raga10 says:

    The US defense budget should be around $25B.

    Wow, you are even more extreme than I am, my hat off to you sir! I am usually content to claim US budget should be only slashed to be comparable with the second largest spender (China, 261 billion in 2019). How did you arrive at the figure of 25 billion?

  157. Jack D says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Must have been many years ago because the last British execution was in 1964.

  158. Altai says:
    @raga10

    The lasers that do that are huge and have to be mounted on turrets that take time to turn and there is the time lag of first IDing the missiles. You could fire enough and from enough angles to take out a ship equipped with any kind of laser equipment that is likely to come out in the next 20-30 years.

    That also presumes no means being deployed of shielding the missiles or scattering the beam with some kind of surface covering or geometry.

  159. Old Prude says:
    @anonymous

    Statutory rape of a twelve year old girl? We’re talking Navy tradition here: Are you sure it wasn’t a twelve year old boy?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  160. Cato says:
    @Not Raul

    My friend did not elaborate. But I think it has something to do with the Air Force scarfing up most of the recruits interested in technical training, and the Marines grabbing the most gung-ho recruits. The Army has always struggled with recruitment, so I’m not clear on why the Navy would do worse than the Army.

  161. Old Prude says:
    @Anon

    Fighting fire is to be highly admired and encouraged. Any sissy can run away..

  162. Cato says:
    @bomag

    Our special forces are exceptionally good at what they do. But at what cost to themselves?

    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/12/27/service-member-charged-in-illinois-bowling-alley-shooting-that-killed-3/

    And when you think that the special forces are at the beck and call of people like the Bidens…

    • Replies: @Altai
  163. Old Prude says:
    @Bill Jones

    Die Whitey is probably pretty close

  164. @SaneClownPosse

    Reminds me of the housing bubble’s notorious “Linda Green”, the robo-signature found on a lot of NINJA loans.

    • Replies: @Polistra
  165. @donut

    The Navy has a long and proud tradition of finding scapegoats to cover up the incompetence of the higher ups .

    Husband E Kimmel, for one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husband_E._Kimmel

    Maybe they were getting back at Dad?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manning_M._Kimmel

    If you’re wondering about his unusual first name, look no further:

    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Husband-167

  166. @Patrick in SC

    I’ve heard rumors that the 1967 fire on the USS Forrestal which killed something like 131 sailors was due to racially motivated arson, even though the official story is that it was an accident.

    A civilian counterpart:

    Our Lady of the Angels (OLA) School Fire, December 1, 1958


    • Replies: @Charon
    , @Anon
  167. JMcG says:
    @HunInTheSun

    The entire Japanese pre-war strategy was to draw the American battle fleet west, and then engage it, preferably at night.
    Im not aware of a B-17 actually hitting any Japanese war ship from altitude. They weren’t well-suited to the role.

  168. Muggles says:

    Speaking of the Navy, they are now testing large (man sized but unmanned) underwater drones to be launched from special “boxes” attached to submarines.

    The intent is to use these to detect undersea mines, anti sub sonar, other defenses so that subs and/or SEALs can sneak in very close to targets.

    They appear (from the drawings shown) to be fatter and larger than torpedoes and will likely be guided by drone operators onboard the subs.

    Also of course can be used for stealth electronic eavesdropping with special antennas and perhaps even video cameras. Sort of a robotic mini sub with undersea operators controlling it remotely.

    They are now being tested. Considering how expensive naval hardware is, these are likely to be pretty cheap for the jobs intended.

    • Replies: @Altai
  169. Charon says:
    @Father O'Hara

    Or [shudders] both. Great civilizations have been ruined by less.

  170. Charon says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Yeah,don’t hold your breath waiting for the Hollywood treatment. Our current ruling class considers an event like that a stepping stone.

  171. anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Old Prude

    It’s pretty funny that Islam and the US Navy were both fathered by pedophiles.

    • LOL: Old Prude
  172. @raga10

    1/3 of a total, USG budget of ~$80B.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
  173. Altai says:
    @Cato

    In fairness, Spec Forces are highly attractive to psychos who want to make absolutely sure they get a chance to kill somebody up close during their military service. Never ever get taken prisoner by Spec Forces from any army, always go down fighting.

  174. Altai says:
    @Muggles

    It wouldn’t take many of these deployed to take out most of the Royal Navy in dock for example. Drone swarms are going to be very effective in the near future.

  175. Rob says:
    @epebble

    I would take the McCain set the fire idea not so much as a crazy conspiracy theory but a demonstration of the fact that the elites, of all sorts have deservedly lost everyone’s trust.

    Let’s take an alternate universe that is exactly like ours save one fact. McCain set the fire through irresponsible actions that he committed deliberately, though not to intentionally cause the fire.

    Would the military cover that up? Expose an American Hero™ as an incompetent? Put a Great Man in the public eye like that? Not a chance. The military, with the help of any and all politicians and government agencies would come up with something, maybe a scapegoat or just chalk it up to a bunch of chemical-soaked rags spontaneously combusting from the light of burning swamp gas reflected off a passing cloud. It does not really matter what. Would intrepid journalists from the New York Times work tirelessly to bring the cover up to light?

    Nope. Much like conservatives thinking the election was stolen by fraud or many people of all races and political views not trusting pharma companies and the government enough to get vaccinated, it shows how much of a low trust society “we” have become. Third World countries are often derided as being low trust, but the real problem is that in the third world no one outside one’s clan is trustworthy. American elites of all stripes have been working tirelessly to strip mine America’s social capital. From outsourcing to pharma charging insane prices to cable companies gouging you for broadband, to a President elected to drain the swamp passing a massive tax cut to benefit capital, to ‘journalists gaslighting you about every issue..,there are so many examples that this comment could be arbitrarily long. I’ll just add politicians using immigration to directly turn us into a third world country and make their every electoral victory fraudulent and colleges gouging millions on tuition

    The elites have worked very hard to destroy any trust we could have in them. For a long time, and almost uniquely among countries, the United States government was not a bunch of people who had loyal men with guns exploiting everyone else. In Europe, the people who owned land and capital were largely immiserated by the wars. In rebuilding Europe they saw American power and with great self-interest, imitated the American capitalists’ enlightened views. Maybe they were just frightened of the communists, Economic growth in Europe and America lifted a great many boats.

    The elites took industrious, trustworthy and trusting workers and citizens as a given. But much like a social safety net that conservatives warned us could be used a hammock, a functioning society can be used selfishly and unsustainably as well.

    tl;dr the McCain-fire conspiracy theory may not be true, but it is true to life. Our terrible elites cause us to believe silly things because the truth is too horrible: they all should be swinging from lampposts. Sadly, the half-assed meritocracy has pulled many of the most intelligent into classes that need to greatly reform. But all the changes are in wrong directions. I hope that the conservatives’ idea that colleges and employers discriminate against intelligent rural and working-class whites. Hopefully there are smart people who are not part of the problem and can be the core of a new elite après le déluge.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  176. Thomas says:
    @prime noticer

    Ah yes, I knew that hypersonic missiles ̶ the Wunderwaffen of the last decade ̶ were going to figure in here somewhere. If the Cold War taught us nothing, it’s that you can speculate endlessly about the potential capabilities of new and completely unproven weapons systems and potentially even scare potential rivals into ill-considered reactions based on that speculation. (Arguably, Reagan won the Cold War by head-faking the Soviets with his Star Wars death ray.) And the feared hypersonic missiles are one of the only weapons systems with less actual combat experience (meaning none) than nuclear submarines (one Argentine cruiser off the Falklands in 1982). So you can say anything you want about their potential capabilities.

    For all that speculation though, I’m skeptical. Missiles (or any other OTH weapon) are highly dependent on surveillance and target acquisition. The ocean is still a pretty big place, and the positional uncertainty of a 22-knot warship steaming to evade increases by over 1,500 nm² per hour. A naval task force conducting hit-and-run raids across an archipelago won’t be as easy a target as, say, a convoy moving from Known Point A to Known Point B (the paradigmatic target of missile raids). All that hypersonic missiles add to the equation is potentially overcoming the air defenses of the task force, once you find it. You still have to find it in the first place.

    And that’s assuming the surveillance and target acquisition assets themselves survive long enough to acquire targets in the first place. Or the launchers, for that matter.

    Also, I’m skeptical of the terminal guidance capabilities of a kill vehicle moving five times the speed of sound or more. I think the unspoken assumption of hypersonic antiship missiles is that if they’re ever actually fired in combat, they’ll be carrying nuclear warheads to make a near-miss good enough. Which means their first use will mean crossing the nuclear Rubicon and inviting retaliation in kind, not leaving them very useful as a limited-scope area denial weapon.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  177. Polistra says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    If enough of us vote for ‘free’ housing, we’ll surely get it!

    Sho’ beats workin!

  178. @JohnnyWalker123

    Notredame didn’t commit suicide.

    Indeed not, It’s France that committed suicide.

  179. Wilkey says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Really, Buffalo Joe, if you want to tell a tall tale you need to at least entertain us for a few paragraphs. Perhaps you weren’t here for the good old days of Albertosauraus. The man was full of shit, but it was clever shit, and he could keep you entertained with a good yarn for a few dozen seconds.

  180. Anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomas

    None of America’s business. Asia for the Asians.

    • Agree: Chris Mallory
  181. @HunInTheSun

    The Japanese also had specialized damage control teams which worked well as long as damage was localized. Multiple damage events tended to overwhelm the top-heavy damage control parties, especially so if they took losses.
    In contrast, everybody on a US ship was trained to and expected to do something in the event.

    Here is a rather nice introduction video by Drachinifel.

  182. JMcG says:
    @Rob

    Very true. Imagine 73 West Point Cadets having been caught cheating on an exam and not expelled at any point up to the 70s.
    Their fellow cadets would have demanded their expulsion and shunned any of those involved.
    Now, we’re expected to believe that the entire Army is still an institution that values honor.

    • Replies: @no jack london
  183. @gabriel alberton

    “Father?”
    “Yes, son?”
    “I want to kill you.”

    • LOL: Old Prude
  184. @Abolish_public_education

    Well, you do want to abolish public education. How much would that save the feds as well as, say, the state of CA?

    I’m totally on board, incidentally.

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin
  185. @Not Raul

    Decreasing percentage of Americans can swim, particularly among the lower classes that the military draws recruits from. It may not be that they dislike boats, but anyone who can’t swim is not going to be super enthused about learning as a young adult or spending a lot of time on a boat right after being taught in boot camp.

  186. @Thomas

    For all that speculation though, I’m skeptical. Missiles (or any other OTH weapon) are highly dependent on surveillance and target acquisition.

    During Operation Preying Mantis against the Iranians, the US Navy successfully used radar reflective chaff against a subsonic Tomahawk cruise missile fired against it. I would think a hypersonic missile would have much less to figure out if it were actually homing in on the intended target vs. a cloud of drifting chaff.

    The US Navy used the USA/ Australian Nulka active decoy for the first time onboard the USS Mason on 10/9/2016 off the Yemeni coast against missile fire from Houthi rebels.

  187. CCZ says:
    @Kyle

    More “diversity” in the military news:

    “1st Female Green Beret Faces ‘Minor Misdemeanor’ Charge for Accidentally Firing Gun, Police Say”

    “Five months after becoming the first female Green Beret, a National Guard soldier is facing a civilian misdemeanor charge for accidentally firing a pistol inside a Colorado apartment.

    In July, the soldier, whose identity has been kept secret, graduated from the grueling, 53-week Special Forces Qualification Course (Q Course) at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, becoming the first woman to earn the Special Forces tab and coveted Green Beret.

    On Dec. 12, she allegedly discharged a handgun by accident inside an apartment in Colorado Springs.”

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/12/31/1st-female-green-beret-faces-minor-misdemeanor-charge-accidentally-firing-gun-police-say.html

    • Replies: @raga10
  188. @JMcG

    JMcG:
    Go back to 1952. 60 more less cadets including most of football team expelled for cheating. Among them potential All American QB, Bob Blake who was son of the great coach Col Earl “Red” Blake.

  189. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Are you implying that the school fire was racially motivated arson? Maybe the private school was the only thing that kept Whites in the neighborhood ? What’s the connection between the 2 fires?

    I read the entire newspaper coverage of the school fire. The fire began in a trash can in the basement. It could have been arson. Could have been a janitor and a careless cigarette or match. Could have been kids sneaking down to the basement.

    What’s the connection between the fires?

    • Replies: @iDeplorable
  190. @no jack london

    An elderly friend of mine was one of the cadets thrown out. He says that kicking them all out covered up misbehavior by a cadet whose father was an Army poobah, and that most of the cadets were innocent. Vince Lombardi was an assistant there at the time, and took my buddy to the hospital after he got some teeth knocked out.

  191. Cortes says:
    @George

    See also

    https://theothermccain.com/2018/06/17/tip-pentagon-covering-up-fact-that-female-officers-nearly-sank-navy-ship/

    I’ve seen suggestions elsewhere that “not talking to her” attitudes may have been a factor in that collision.

  192. raga10 says:
    @CCZ

    People with a point to make will jump at this chance, of course. But realistically speaking she’s hardly the first soldier to discharge a weapon by accident, nor is she likely to be the last. And the connection between her gender and her trigger finger is not established.

  193. @Buffalo Joe

    Joe, I think you’ll agree that Notre Dame is worth more extensive fire prevention measures than the Tonowanda Coke plant.

    Also, Jihadis or resentful Africans probably aren’t much interested in burning down a Coke factory. They love that shit.

  194. Cortes says:
    @Anonymous

    Indeed.

    John Michael Greer’s fictional (one hopes) take on this at

    https://archdruidmirror.blogspot.com/2017/06/how-it-could-happen-part-one-hubris.html

    Part two available at the “newer posts” link at the end.

  195. commentor says:

    “An unidentified sailor is the focus of the investigation of the suspected arson…”

    That is navy-speak for the officers haven’t yet figured out how to protect their own ranks from incompetence. Railroading a low-level sailer is common practice.

  196. Dan Eggum says:
    @Hockamaw

    My only encounter with the US Navy was two years ago after Trident Juncture. Got called in by the Norwegian army reserve to watch the USS Iwo Jima as it was docked in Oslo. Apparently, the US navy uses American private security contractors to watch their ships, dudes that basically had the competence of a nighclub bouncer.

    One time, a group in civilian clothing just walked through the checkpoint and aboard the ship without being challenged. The Norwegian sentry asked the security guys why they didn’t check them and the respons was “said they were Marines”. 5 minutes later, turned out they were Dutch sailors that got bored and decided to check how far they could get onboard a US aircraft carrier/LHD. They only got busted cause they stopped on the main deck with cold feet, not knowing where to go next.

  197. @Anon

    Are you implying that the school fire was racially motivated arson…What’s the connection between the 2 fires?

    You’re looking for a point from Reg? You must be new here.

  198. the USS Miami was burned beyond repair in 2012 by a dockworker wanting to get off work.

    Thank God these things never have to do anything or go anywhere dangerous.

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