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My impression is that the first debate of a 3-debate series isn’t very decisive. In my opinion, Mondale won the first debate in 1984, Kerry in 2004, Romney in 2012, and Hillary in 2016, but all lost the election. Bush beat a sighing Gore in 2000’s first debate but didn’t maintain momentum and won by an incredibly narrow margin. I don’t really recall 1988, 1992, or 1996.

I don’t remember much about the 1976 debates, the first since 1960, but Ford’s big gaffe when he confused Poland and Yugoslavia was in the second of three debates.

The most decisive debate was in 1980. Reagan won the single debate of 1980 a few days before the election and won easily. But if there’d been two more debates?

All this suggests that who is perceived as the winner in any one debate is quite contingent.

About tonight’s debate, I hope it turns into a donnybrook over who invented the lightbulb.

 
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  1. The actual winner is difficult to predict, but if Biden pees his pants on the way in, and then forgets where he is, the MSM will still declare him the winner.

  2. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    well here you go, with the kiler grammatical skill needed by modern journalists, Hollywood nominates Harris for president.

    Dwayne ‘The Rock’ Johnson endorses Biden, Harris for president, vice president

    https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/09/28/breaking-news/dwayne-the-rock-johnson-endorses-biden-harris-for-president-vice-president/

    btw; Mr. Johnson was positive for coronavirus. He is still not deceased.

  3. Clyde says:

    I agree with the people who say there will be just one debate. One and done for Joe and his handlers. Trump wants three debates to knock Joe around.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Disagree: guest007
    • Replies: @JosephB
    , @Jack D
  4. D. K. says:

    Ronald Reagan actually debated twice in the fall of 1980– but against two different opponents:

    https://debates.org/debate-history/1980-debates/

    My oldest political memory is watching one of the 1960 debates. I think that it was the second debate, based upon my memory of the background of the set; I do not remember anything that was said. That was days before my fourth birthday.

    https://debates.org/debate-history/1960-debates/

  5. tyrone says:

    We never had a candidate that spoke gibberish as well as Biden .

    • Replies: @TWS
    , @El Dato
  6. AndrewR says:

    There is simply no way Trump doesn’t mop the floor with Biden even though the moderator will obviously be Team Joe.

  7. JosephB says:
    @Clyde

    I agree. There will not be three debates — certainly not if Biden does well tonight.

  8. Seamus says:

    Bush beat a sighing Gore in 2000’s first debate but didn’t maintain momentum and won by an incredibly narrow margin.

    Lost, actually, if you count the popular vote.

  9. Polynikes says:

    The bar is pretty low for Biden. If you judge him on his policies he actually speaks to, I suspect no one would be impressed. If he gets credit for not forgetting his name, he should win.

    • Replies: @guest007
  10. TTSSYF says:
    @Seamus

    Actually, Bush won. For as long as we’re able to hold on to it, our system does not allow Presidential elections to be decided by several million drones in California and New York.

    • Thanks: BenKenobi, Clyde
    • Replies: @Prester John
  11. Are there drugs you can give senile people which will temporarily boost their performance?

  12. Biden will step on stage not sure of where he is , who he is, who he is debating and why.

    One would think that Trump would then roll over Biden like the Wehrmacht tearing through Poland in September 1939. Which he will, which will make him look like the worst bully since Bluto from the Popeye cartoons, which will cost the Orange Man 90 percent of the women voters and give Biden an electoral, popular vote landslide.

    Or maybe it will cost Biden 90 percent of the men voters and thus a close win for Biden. Not sure which. In any case:

    If Trump were smart he’d follow the advice of Napoleon: “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.” But, well, what are the chances he will?

  13. @AndrewR

    AndrewR wrote:

    There is simply no way Trump doesn’t mop the floor with Biden even though the moderator will obviously be Team Joe.

    If Biden does not have to be carried off the stage, the MSM will declare him the winner.

    And about half the country is highly influenced by what they are “supposed to” believe.

    As Trout says in Vonnegut’s Breakfast of Champions:

    And here, according to Trout, was the reason human beings could not reject ideas because they were bad: “Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity. Their content did not matter. Friends agreed with friends, in order to express friendliness. Enemies disagreed with enemies, in order to express enmity.

    “The ideas Earthlings held didn’t matter for hundreds of thousands of years, since they couldn’t do much about them anyway. Ideas might as well be badges as anything.”

    • Thanks: Gabe Ruth
  14. Bruno says:
    @Peter Johnson

    Biden dementia is same hoax as Hillary severe illness in 2016. She is still there and kicking

  15. tyrone says:

    Drinking game : take a shot every time joe says “come on man!”….or every time Trump says” Hunter”.

    • Replies: @Charles St. Charles
  16. I’m in your age cohort Steve, and recall watching those Carter/Ford debates. I’m guessing you were a college freshmen, but I was in High School, so had more time in my evenings.

    Carter looked stiff and pale in the first debate. He cleaned up nicely for the remainders though. IIRC, it was in debate 1 that the sound failed midway through.

    Who wins depends on what criteria you use. A standard AFL ballot gives points for presentation, but also scored debate points. But if you’ve ever watched lawyers like F. Lee Bailey, or Gerry Spence, it’s all about presentation. That’s how JFK beat Nixon. JFK was no dummy, and we keep hearing about how the democratic candidate is the smartest man on the planet (well not this year) but Nixon was legitimately a 140-150+ IQ. It didn’t matter.

    • Replies: @Gordo
  17. bgates says:
    @Seamus

    Lost, actually, if you count the popular vote.

    In the seven games of the 1960 World Series, the results were

    Pittsburgh 6 / Yankees 4
    Yankees 16 / Pittsburgh 3
    Yankees 10 / Pittsburgh 0
    Pittsburgh 3 / Yankees 2
    Pittsburgh 5 / Yankees 2
    Yankees 12 / Pittsburgh 0
    Pittsburgh 10 / Yankees 9

    In total the Yankees outscored their opponents 55-27. Pittsburgh could only be considered the victor by people interested in the narrow technicality of who won more games – which is everybody, because that’s how the game is played.

  18. @Bruno

    “Biden dementia is same hoax” so, he is just retarded?

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Ron Mexico
    , @Jack D
  19. @Kent Nationalist

    Every mood-enhancer will do. Coffee! Tea! Or the well known antidepressant Citalopram for example -its even clinically tested and proven helpful against Alzheimer’s disease 
    https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/6/236/236re4

    Cocaine is not clinically tested – but – compare it to coffee and add 1+1. And then there is the momentum of an event. If quite demented people have a birthday, say,  and are used to celebrations – they lighten up – get talkier, etc.

    Moods in a room can work wonders. I’ve once experienced it that a very (=totally, it seemed) demented old woman – started talking – in clear, reasonable words, what she hadn’t done in – years, as a reaction to a mood swing, that had reached her – deep (very deep) down inside (thiss wonder didn’t last for long though, but it did happened).

    Joe Biden is used to all these cameras and lights and people around him and still seems to somehow enjoy himself in such a surrounding. As a Democrat though, I for sure would not have the confidence to let him talk live on TV with a strong opponent for ninety minutes. This will be a strange experiment. Not least because it will become quite obvious that he does not understand very well what is at stake (he has lost this – crucial, with regard to a debate –  ability to an extent that can’t be hidden or obfuscated, I’d hold). All in all – one of the big surprises of this miraculous year, that Joe Biden is still the presidential candidate. I could have said: That’s incredible, too. The Joe Biden story reminds me of Anderson’s fairy tale of The Emperor’s New Cloths like no other story in a long time.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  20. Polynikes says:
    @Bruno

    I suspect it’s highly over hyped on the right. But he is the least active candidate I can remember in recent history and he was racking up enough gaffs in the primary to make people suspicious. He yelled at the lady in Iowa, he offered to fight the guy in Michigan (turning off 2A dems in the process), and had the hairy legs thing. Those are just the notable ones.

    I wouldn’t rule out a couple of really odd moments from Biden. They seem to be protecting him from something. If he just gets his usual angry and incompetent long enough it may turn off enough suburban women to help Trump.

    Minds won’t be changed at this point. The election is about turnout. Hillary levels for Biden and Trump wins. ‘12 Obama levels for Biden and he should win. They’re playing for the margins in-between.

  21. TWS says:
    @tyrone

    Authentic frontier gibberish.

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
    • Replies: @Guy Cabellero
  22. TWS says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Yes a couple. The ones I know about also have the risk off raising blood pressure.

    I don’t doubt they’ll pump him as full as they can

  23. JimDandy says:
    @bgates

    I have used a similar analogy in pointing out the the Cubs did not win in 2016, either. The World Series ended in a deadlock at 27-27 and Paul Ryan eventually had to break the tie.

  24. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Pebble wants to work in Swinewood.

    9 yr old boys might be influenced.

  25. @Kent Nationalist

    Cockburn, at The Spectator, suggests Aricept.

    Aricept is used to enhance mental acuity in patients suffering from Alzheimer’s or vascular dementia. That will certainly be handy for keeping Biden from drooling on the podium. However, Aricept also has the side effect of increasing libido, and has been found to correlate with inappropriate sexual behaviors in those who take it. Actually, Biden may have been taking this drug for a long time.

    Adderall (amphetamine salts) would be another, plus perhaps a shot of B-12.

    WOR radio host Mark Simone thinks Biden gets a boost from a drug cocktail before he makes his public appearances, but the treatment is only good for about 45 minutes, which is why all his interviews and appearances are brief. Simone also mentions that temporarily taking Biden off some of the other medications he probably is on would help, as some have side effects that include memory loss.

  26. @Bruno

    I agree he is NOT in the throes of severe-onset adult-diapers-level senile dementia since he can still read a teleprompter, but wow is his speaking halting and labored when he drifts off the teleprompter and is extemporaneous! Compare him to the media reporters who interview him — or even the steelworkers/students who ask him soft-ball questions. They can all talk much more quickly and cogently than the likely next President of the USA. That is quite shocking is it not?

    Also him staying at home and having early afternoon “LIDS” many days is very suspicious. I surmise that his cognitive faculties are in rapid decline.

    • Replies: @guest007
  27. BB753 says:
    @Ron Mexico

    Biden is part half-witted, possibly a former cokehead and part senile. Not a good combo but good enough for the highest office in the country, it seems.

    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  28. anon[956] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR

    Don’t count your chickens so fast. Each candidate has supplied the opposition with plenty of ammunition.

  29. The pre-debate “bombshell” the New York Times released two days about Trump not having to pay income taxes due to depreciation wasn’t new news–the same story appeared the New York Times on October 3, 2016.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/opinion/mr-trumps-government-bailout.html?searchResultPosition=4

    Hillary even brought it up at their debate.

    https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2020-09-28-watch-the-1st-debate-2016-hillary-claims-donald-trump-paid-no-federal-tax/

    • Thanks: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @anon
  30. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:

    If there is a debate, Joe might cancel,
    should almost be close to an even match:

    Trump vs Gone Joe, Shlomo Wallace, all the media.

    No, still not fair.

    Trump wins, destroys all the weasels.

  31. Brutusale says:

    Funny how the Old Gray Whore, unlike the WSJ, couldn’t find any column inches for this.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-dodged-500k-taxes-exploiting-loophole

  32. Thoughts says:

    I don’t think Biden is that senile

    I think the Trump campaign is smart in not underestimating him

    I’m watching old videos of Biden and he always did weird things with sounds and words

    I think there is a difference between ‘Senile’ and ‘Becoming More You’

    Trump should be worried, he should be prepared, and he should ‘tone it down’ to appear more approachable

    Trump doesn’t want to look like the asshole

    • Replies: @Bernard
  33. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:

    The comparisons to past debates seem kind of silly to me, in light of the fact that we are now dealing with a candidate with an obviously diminished mental capacity.

  34. Thea says:

    Battle lines are drawn, debates don’t matter, actual policy also is irrelevant.

    Whether Biden is coherent or not does not determine why people vote for him. He simply carries the banner for team democrat.

    • Agree: jim jones
  35. It will be interesting to see if Biden shows up, either literally or figuratively.

  36. @Harry Baldwin

    Simone also mentioned Joe’s handlers may be trying to shift his biological clock to help him handle the 9 PM kickoff (as with Romney, who was known for his early bedtime.)

  37. @Ron Mexico

    In his gaffes I notice that he slurs words, like when he joined Jill in the classroom and said “I’m Joe Biden’s husband.” It sounds like Joe, but could have been Jill. Since I don’t know what ails Joe, I just choose to consider him retarded.

  38. Wasn’t the 1988 debate famed for the Willie Horton stuff and for Dukakis nerdily blowing that “what-if-your wife Kitty was raped and murdered” question?

    As far as tonight, I think Biden can get through it just on muscle memory — he doesn’t need to make sense, discuss policy or “lay out his vision for the future.” Just be able to stand up and go Trump Bad for 90 minutes, which any Dem can do in their sleep. Any non-sequiturs will simply be ignored, as you would when visiting your Aunt Miriam in assisted living.

    • Agree: Buffalo Joe
  39. I think the details of ratings will be a better indication of winners and losers. Doesn’t seem like there are many undecided out there. Also if we lived in a world with humor, Depends and Life Alert would be the sponsors of all three debates.

  40. @Stephen Paul Foster

    In an alternate universe, Trump is belittlingly compassionate and scrapes both female and male voters for the win.

  41. The Reagan Carter election was a classic example of foreign intervention in an American election.

    The Iranians had promised to do a deal with Ronald Reagan over the embassy hostages once he was elected, and therefore refused to come to a deal with Jimmy Carter, who lost the election over the Iran hostages issue.

  42. @Dieter Kief

    Didn’t Trump ask for blood tests for both candidates? I presume the Biden camp hasn’t responded.

    “Moods in a room can work wonders.”

    I remember a 90-something great-uncle at his big sister’s funeral being charming to everyone, chatting to strangers and distant relatives, working the room, you would never have guessed he normally sat at home by himself, obsessively counting (and losing) his pills. Sometimes for isolated people just company works a treat.

    If you have elderly, single relatives within a reachable distance (say within 150 miles), take them out for lunch!

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  43. One hint will remind you of the 1988 debates.

    There were two of them

    Dukakis is acknowledged to have won the first. The second debate opened with a question to Dukakis from Bernard Shaw. Remember? Dukakis fumbled. Game over.

    That reminds me. . .à propos of nothing, why did Bernard King retire so young? He looked like he was still at the top of his game. A scandal or something?

    And you’ll also remember the one vice-presidential debate. “. . .I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.” It made Bentsen look like an SOB, which, of course, he was.

  44. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    My prediction for the debate is Biden’s handlers have him prepped with a single zinger intended to fill the fake news cycle (probably pre-leaked) but that he will deploy it as a complete non-sequitir, betraying his less than complete faculties. This should be a romp for Trump, whether it is reported as such outside Fox remains to be seen. It could be so bad even the DNC psyops wing (ie. all cable news, including all but two/three hours of all Fox programming) has to report it as such, to avoid the appearance of complete collusion with the Biden campaign. The debates in 2016 were falsely reported as Clinton victories (polling on the debate itself and intended vote preference following each clearly demonstrated otherwise, so I suggest our erstwhile blogger rewatch the first if he is under that impression), so they very well could attempt to get away with such propagandizing again.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  45. @TWS

    Now who can argue with that.

    • LOL: Coemgen, TWS
  46. @Kent Nationalist

    Everybody is getting this backwards. For several months, Sleepy Joe’s handlers have been giving him drugs which very effectively mimic early-onset Alzheimer’s. Those drugs have been withdrawn today, and this evening the world will see a veritable Chesterton onstage in Cleveland.

    • LOL: Aeronerauk
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  47. Jack D says:
    @Ron Mexico

    Essentially yes. If you go back 30 or 40 years (Biden was elected to the Senate in 1972 at age 29) he was already saying stupid things, plagiarizing from other people’s speeches, lying about his IQ and class rank, pawing women, etc. This is why until the magical year 0f 2020 he was never able to get the Democrat nomination. I’m sure that being old has not sharpened his wits but they were never very sharp to begin with. Biden shares with Trump that they are both among the luckiest bastards on earth – while most people fail downward, he and Trump both fail UPward.

    The criticisms of Biden as old, a molestor of females, a braggart, etc. would have a lot more impact if Trump was not all of these things too – as Steve as said, Biden is the 2nd most Trump-like politician in America.

    • Agree: Bill
  48. These aren’t debates like the ones we had in college, where we could cross examine our opponents. If Trump could do that to Biden, it would be over. These are glorified press conferences, and the candidates prepare canned answers to any possible question from the moderator, if they haven’t already cheated as Hillary did in 2016 and been given the questions ahead of time.

    As you know, Nixon won the 1960 debates among the radio audience, and he lost the teevee version where women could see his tired look, 5 o’clock shadow and shifty eyes. Plus, Kennedy cheated by mentioning a classified subject to which Nixon could not counterargue without divulging national security secrets to which he was privy.

    (Then, of course the Kennedy campaign cheated in Chicago on election day, where the Democrat machine out-waited Republicans for the final vote count and magically came up with enough to win. This time, the Democrats will out wait via uncounted mail in ballots and come up with the needed majorities in enough states to steal the election for Biden/HARRIS, if it needs to be stolen.)

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    , @ScarletNumber
  49. 1992? I don’t remember much either. In fact, the only memorable moment was a shot of Bush looking at his wristwatch, giving people the impression that he thought he had something more pressing to do. It didn’t help.

    The vice-presidential debate featured Perot’s running mate, Admiral Stockdale, opening with something like “Who am I. Why am I here?”

    Of course, it was a rhetorical question; he was unknown, and was suggesting that he could read the viewers’ minds. But the press treated the remark as if he were literally talking to himself.

  50. @I, Libertine

    I don’t believe I wrote Bernard King. Oh Jeez.

    I just looked it up. King retired at about age 37. Old for basketball player. Shaw retired at 61. Quite young for a news anchor. Sorry about the confusion.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  51. Jack D says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    It’s a simple fact that the Federal tax code allows the owners of real estate to take a deduction equal to approximately 3% of the value of a building each year as depreciation even though you have not spent any cash – the idea is that buildings (all physical assets) have a life span and so lose value over time unless you make further capital investments (and you can’t write off those investments directly – you have to depreciate them on the same 31.5 year schedule). So, if you own $1 billion worth of real estate, you are going to get a $30 million + deduction on your return so even if you have a cash income of $30 million it is going to drive your taxable income down to zero. And the deduction is based on the full value of the property including debt – maybe you owe $950 in debt and have only invested $50 million, but you still get the full $30 million deduction. This is true for all real estate owners, not just Trump. What Trump did is 100% legal. What was he supposed to do – not take the depreciation deduction to which he is entitled? Then he would really be a fool. It is a famous maxim of tax law that no one is required to arrange their affairs in order to pay the maximum amount of taxes that are due. Tax avoidance (as opposed to evasion) is completely legal and in fact wise.

    But what gets thru to the average idiot is “Trump only paid $750 in taxes”.

  52. All this suggests that who is perceived as the winner in any one debate is quite contingent.

    This is nothing like previous debates.

    All of the candidates you listed were competent debaters.

    Have you watched the full cornpop speech?

  53. @Buck Ransom

    Yeah, it will be G.K. Chesterton debating G.B. Shaw tonight.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @adreadline
  54. Neoconned says:

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/1549554/cops-investigate-ilhan-omar-vote-harvesting/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly

    Rep. Omar is being investigated for ballot harvesting. I think its funny about both her & AOC….they both have white hubbies….

    Methinks some white women somewhere want them gone….nobody likes competition….

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    , @Corn
  55. @Polynikes

    Minds won’t be changed at this point.

    Gonna disagree.

    Biden can easily sink his numbers with independents.

    Up until this point Biden has been given softball questions. We have seen him turn unhinged over questions about Hunter.

    If Biden botches the debate a lot of independents and moderate Democrats will quietly pull the lever for Trump. They’re not going to trust the economy and their savings accounts to him. These are people that will poll as hating Trump and will tell their spouses that they can’t believe people voted for him.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  56. @Anon

    Will they let a Democratic President be made mild fun of if he’s white? I could see Steve Carrell as President Joe Biden bringing a lot of Michael Scott energy to the question of why schools don’t teach a black man invented the light bulb.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Altai
  57. @I, Libertine

    Speaking of Bernard Shaw, a commenter predicts Biden will be a veritable Gilbert Keith Chesterton tonight.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  58. Barnard says:
    @AndrewR

    Chris Wallace hates Trump and what he represents personally, but he hates accusations that he is a partisan for one side even more. He went after Hillary several times in the 2016 debate he moderated. Wallace is a stooge who got his job through nepotism, but he still clings to the insane idea that the American news media is operating in the interests of the American people. He will be the least Team Joe of the three moderators.

  59. @Jonathan Mason

    That was part of it, but Reagan would have won anyway. Carter was not cut out to be a POTUS. He told us to turn our thermostats down to 65 and put on sweaters. He gave away the Panama Canal. Inflation and interest rates were in double digits.

    You don’t beat an incumbent, and take back the Senate for the first time in 28 years, unless Americans are very unhappy with the job their leaders are doing.

    Hell, even I campaigned for Ronald Reagan, door-to-door, and I was a bearded hippie about to start college.

  60. Gordo says:
    @Dr. DoomNGloom

    I remember hearing that Nixon was the clear winner among those who listened on radio.

    Something to do with TV people botching his makeup so he looked rough because they were Kennedy fans.

  61. Nodwink says:

    sounds pretty boring, especially when compared to this

    • Thanks: black sea
  62. Jack D says:
    @Clyde

    Who is saying this and what is their basis for saying so? The same people who are saying that Biden is senile. This is just saying “Biden is senile and is being protected by his handlers.” TBH, the evidence for Biden’s senility is scant. It’s a fun allegation to make but it doesn’t really have much traction except among people who are firmly pro-Trump to begin with. It’s true that Biden is gaffe prone (always has been) so his handlers are trying to keep him in his basement as much as possible (the Rona is a great excuse) but they have committed to doing 3 debates. If they didn’t want to do 3 they would have never agreed to 3 in the first place.

    Biden is pretty much boxed into doing 3 debates (as is Trump). If he is really senile and doesn’t do well, then he is boxed in because his team will hope to make up for lost ground the next time. Even if Biden does extremely well tonight (which is not a given – as Steve says the first debate is often perceived as a draw) he is still boxed in because any attempt to weasel out of doing the agreed number would itself be perceived as a negative.

    But the bottom line is that the people who are saying that Biden will only do 1 debate are pulling this notion out of their ass – they have no actual information on which to base this, other than their own preconceptions of Biden as a senile coward. Frankly, setting expectations so low only helps Biden – if he goes out there and doesn’t pee himself and drool, he will have outperformed what his detractors say about him.

  63. @Jack D

    “But what gets thru to the average idiot is ‘Trump only paid $750 in taxes’.”

    Yes indeed! The US Tax Code by now has the look of swiss cheese. And the loopholes are there because interest groups (real estate, oil etc.) wanted them there. And it is THEY–not small mom & pop store owners or homeys from “de hood”– who keep that political comedy team in Washington afloat( I don’t know how much outright bribery exists within the Beltway but it must be breathtaking).

    Under the current system so long as a guy like Trump is acting above-board then who can blame him for . Except idiots.

    • Agree: Escher
  64. @Gordo

    Correct on both counts. Plus, he had only been discharged from the hospital a few days before after having caught an infection as a result of an injury to his knee. On the occasion of the debate he looked tired and worn out whereas Kennedy, by contrast, looked fresh as a daisy. It’s been said, though it’s hard to prove, that Nixon lost the election with that first debate.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  65. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, but only after the election. If Biden wins, it will be OK for SNL to poke mild fun at him – nothing too stinging. (If he loses he will disappear from the radar like Hillary). Unless the Leftist consensus is that Biden should step aside and let a proud black woman take the office that she deserves (and by no means do I rule out that that won’t happen). If that’s the new Party line, then they will go after him hammer and tongs. Also, all sorts of new Me Too type information will pop up that will have all of the people who are supporting him now loudly calling for his resignation. But mum’s the word until after the inauguration.

    • Agree: Escher
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    , @Hunsdon
  66. @Kent Nationalist

    Are there drugs you can give senile people which will temporarily boost their performance?

    No, there is not.

    But the commenters here sure are taking black pills by the handful.

  67. @I, Libertine

    “It didn’t help.”

    I suspect it may in fact have sunk his ship.

    I always suspected that Old Man Bush never had the stones to run for a second term. Having climbed the fence from congressman through the RNC chairmanship, CIA directorship and vice-presidency and, finally, the presidency, he did all he set out to accomplish. In addition, by that time he made enemies of Pat Buchanan and columnist George Will–the latter who kept nipping at his heels in the manner of the “lapdog” description which Will famously dropped on him. And let’s not forget Perot, who garnered 19% of the popular vote. The only reason the old man ran a second term was because he was already the incumbent and felt he owed it to his party. Had he campaigned with more enthusiasm he would have beaten that Arkansas grifter whose popularity, touted by a fawning media, was never more than a mile wide and an inch deep.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @MBlanc46
  68. Lurker says:
    @I, Libertine

    Of course, it was a rhetorical question; he was unknown, and was suggesting that he could read the viewers’ minds. But the press treated the remark as if he were literally talking to himself.

    A reminder that rhetorical questions, irony, sarcasm and satire don’t work if hostiles hold the megaphone.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @El Dato
  69. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    >the evidence for Biden’s senility is scant

    Apart from his statements and public appearances and the fact that he is being kept away from an active presidential campaign. My Alzheimer’s-stricken grandmother was more cogent and coherent and better able to remember painfully basic concepts than Joe Biden. You just want replies.

  70. jim jones says:

    Kayleigh McEnany has spoken about the trump debate strategy:

  71. J.Ross says:
    @I, Libertine

    Dennis Miller’s response to that was the point at which I started loving Dennis Miller.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
  72. The fact that you can ‘win’ a debate like this is really a problem. Insofar as the purpose of a debate is to refine, argue, and hone ideas, the format doesn’t allow anywhere near enough time to actually do that. All of the ideas and arguments have been hashed out elsewhere, long ago, in other forums, with much more rigor than two geriatric generalists can manage.

    So perhaps there could be some utility in candidates expressing which side of existing policy controversies they fall on. Nope, again. Nobody states the cold hard facts of what their agenda is, and what the repercussions of that agenda will be–there will always be winners and losers of any government policy, and you don’t want to remind anyone of this.

    “Winning” the debate is mostly about glossing over the actual issues and tradeoffs with feel good bullshit. “Losing” usually involves a gaffe that usually involves accidentally telling the truth about something, and deviating from the everything-will-be-rainbows-and-sunshine-with-these-policies-isn’t-it-amazing-no-one-has-ever-tried-them buffoonery.

  73. JimB says:

    About tonight’s debate, About tonight’s debate, I hope it turns into a donnybrook over who invented the lightbulb.

    Better yet, I hope it turns into a donnybrook over who invented the black light.

    • LOL: Hibernian
  74. @Jack D

    TBH, the evidence for Biden’s senility is scant. It’s a fun allegation to make but it doesn’t really have much traction except among people who are firmly pro-Trump to begin with.

    If that was true then top Democrats wouldn’t be calling on Biden to stay home.

    other than their own preconceptions of Biden as a senile coward.

    Their own preconceptions? More like valid conceptions for anyone that has watched the youtube videos where he introduces himself as Joe Biden’s husband or tells the audience that he is running for senate. In fact he has introduced himself as Joe Biden’s husband multiple times.

    I don’t think he is medically fit to be president and in fact I think it is wrong for the Democrats to be sticking him up there like a Manchurian candidate. It’s quite pathetic that the liberals control the schools and yet this is the best candidate they can come up with. It just shows the true nihilistic nature of liberalism.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Coemgen
  75. Jack D says:
    @Lurker

    It’s like when Trump said that maybe the Russians could find Hillary’s missing emails since the FBI wasn’t able to do so. He meant it as a joke but the MSM headline was that “Trump asks his friend Putin to interfere in the American election.”

    rhetorical questions, irony, sarcasm and satire don’t work if hostiles hold the megaphone.

    Nor do sincere statements. In fact everything that Trump says will be twisted no matter what.

  76. El Dato says:
    @tyrone

    Is it the eldritch energy?

    • Replies: @sayless
  77. @Seamus

    Lost – if you use a different criterion than was established and agreed upon by all parties before the contest began.

  78. El Dato says:
    @Lurker

    Well, if the enemies of liberalism would just quietly kill themselves, then liberals could stop tweeting about violent fantasies on Twitter (like how Rittenhouse deserves to be knifed in prison etc.) and go back to being 100% Good People Without Inner Contradictions 100% of the time.

    Speaking of which, what’s the deal with anti-abortion hysteria? Do liberal ladies seem themselves wanting to get rid of baby one morning because they don’t remember who the dad might be and the doctor says “NO! It is verboten! MWHAHAHA!” and he sends them to the Handmaids’ Camp of Forced Breeding?

  79. @Gordo

    That was it.

    I remember watching them as a kid. No one remembers the substance of them, since there was little difference between the two on policy.

    It may seem strange to say so now, but in 1960, Kennedy was considered conservative – for a northern Democrat; Humphrey ran against him in the primaries from the left. Californian Nixon was a relatively liberal Republican. He seems conservative today because of how he went after communist Alger Hiss. Kennedy was a staunch anti-communist, too, but didn’t make a big deal about it. IIRC, their biggest argument was over the defense of Quemoy and Matsu – it must have seemed important at the time.

    The big difference was how they looked. For the first debate, the handsome Kennedy, who prepared all day at his hotel, looked tanned, rested and ready. Nixon, who had spent the afternoon campaigning, treated it as just another event on his schedule, and was overconfident about his debating skills. He was recovering from the flu, needed a shave, and was in pain because re-injured his bad knee on the way to the studio. He looked awful.

    We later learned that he refused to wear makeup because Kennedy passed up the offer for it in front of Nixon and director Don Hewitt. Nixon believed, correctly IMHO, that his makeup would have been the headline the next day.

  80. Reagan’s “there you go again”. That’s what “winning” a debate looks like.

    Here’s what being a jackass looks like. Biden as a grinning, cackling chimpanzee.

    Set aside for a moment his and his family’s criminal enterprises in Red China and Ukraine. Biden has always been a jerk. Now he is a senile jerk. No amount of Adderal will remedy those problems.

  81. Barnard says:
    @Jack D

    Biden used to be able to make off the cuff remarks, which even if they were gaffes, were easily understood by his audience. He has repeatedly failed to do that throughout this campaign. It is undeniable that Joe Biden is declining mentally, whatever his medical diagnosis would be.

  82. Rmj says:

    My all time favorite presidential debate was the one with Ross Perot.

  83. @Bruno

    Look, fat, I oughta take you out behind the gym and kick your ass. Wanna do pushups? After all, I’ve been doing this for 180 years, even before 200 million Americans died of Covid. Cornpop was a real bad dude, and I handled him, because I’m an anthracite coal miner from Scranton.

    • LOL: John Johnson
    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    , @tyrone
  84. @Jack D

    He meant it as a joke but the MSM headline was that “Trump asks his friend Putin to interfere in the American election.”

    Brennan claimed that that was when he first realized that Trump was colluding with the Russians. That plus the Steel dossier. Of course, both are lies that Brennan pretended to believe after he was exposed as having subverted the political system.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  85. Anon[177] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    The Breonna riots may be in for a second life. One of the grand jurors seems to have gotten the judge to agree to release the transcripts of the secret grand jury procedings.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/9/29/1981653/-Grand-jury-transcript-in-Breonna-Taylor-case-to-be-made-public-after-juror-sues-for-its-release

    This seems irresponsible.

    There’s a good writeup on what it’s like to be a grand juror here by a former Orange County grand juror:

    https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/miscellaneous-adventures/orange-county-grand-jury-service/

    Remember when I described the Grand Jury selection process and how applicants were selected proportionally to supervisorial districts? This seemingly fair process can have some unpleasant side effects. For cultural and demographic reasons, applications are not submitted equally from all districts. Certain districts only apply in very small numbers. For example, contrast a district in which 70 applications are received versus one in which perhaps only 10 applications come in. The judges strive to have six final names from each district placed in the final bingo drum for Grand Juror drawing. If you had two groups, one of which you weeded 70 applications down to 6 versus a group of 10 application cut down to 6, which group do you suppose would be the more qualified, on average? Yet when each group of 6 gets mixed in the selection drum, the odds of their selection become the same. Thus it’s possible to select Grand Jurors from one district that are far less qualified than jurors from another district who were already excluded in the selection process. So if an applicant lives in the right supervisorial district, they don’t have to be competent to make it onto the Grand Jury, just breathing.

    Reading between the lines: Blacks don’t apply in great numbers to be grand jurors, so the ones that get on the grand jury tend to be affirmative action material due to enforced neighborhood proportionality.

  86. @Harry Baldwin

    the treatment is only good for about 45 minutes, which is why all his interviews and appearances are brief.

    I just heard on the Limbaugh Show that Biden had asked for an intermission every half hour, a request that Trump rejected. That may support Simone’s theory that the drugs are only good for a brief period.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @res
  87. Old Prude says:

    What I remember best about the 2000 debate was a sleepless night worrying about the future of the republic in the hands of either one of those shrill immature frat boys. My other memory was Gore accusing Bush of some some kind of tax scam on tree growth. Bush looked puzzled and said “I own a tree farm??…Wanna buy some wood?”

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
  88. @Jack D

    Tax avoidance (as opposed to evasion) is completely legal and in fact wise.

    But what gets thru to the average idiot is “Trump only paid $750 in taxes”.

    His stonewalling on his returns right up to this point is strange, from an electioneering perspective. He must have anticipated a worst case scenario where a leak would put them up for the world to see. The right time to have released them was a little after the 2016 election. Instead, we’re getting them now, a month before Election Day.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    , @William Badwhite
  89. anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    btw; Mr. Johnson was positive for coronavirus. He is still not deceased.

    Just goes to show, long-term hyper-aggressive steroid therapy cuts COVID off at the knees, folks.

    Granted, his aorta looks like my grandpa’s Scottish bag pipe, but that’s not the point here.

  90. @Harry Baldwin

    Trump should delay and walk in late. “Sorry, folks. Complicated business”. Let Ol’ Joe stand at the podium alone for awhile.
    With his calls for drug testing and checking for hidden microphones, DJT is playing mind games like we haven’t seen since the heyday of Cassius Clay.

  91. Biden just joked that he’d been in the Senate for 180 years. 2020-180=1840.

    “Tippecanoe and Kamala, too!”

    1841 April 04
    President Harrison dies of pneumonia, 32 days into office

  92. J.Ross says:

    –Chicago
    –Creative Writing Journalism about how a seemingly innocuous object actually points up the sordid history of violent white supremacism
    Vaguely iStevey: at Second City Cop, the charming factoid that police use typewriters is darkened — or should I say white-out’d — by allegations that the hipster prizes were used as torture instruments.
    http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2020/09/seriously-frank.html

  93. Tim says:

    I would imagine that right now Joe’s handlers are constantly saying:

    Say the monitor’s name!

    Chris, Chris Wallace.

    Say his name, say his name.

  94. syonredux says:

    Niskanen co-founder Jerry Taylor:

    Totally agree with
    @DavidAFrench
    . The worst toxin the GOP bloodstream today is pure hate for the majority of the people who live in this country. It drives everything and justifies everything. Until it’s gone, the GOP is a danger to America.

    On the other hand, pure hate for cis-het White Christians is entirely appropriate……

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Reg Cæsar
  95. Jack D says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    They could just put the booster drugs in his water – the debaters are allowed to sip water.

    • LOL: Hibernian
  96. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    TBH, the evidence for Biden’s senility is scant. It’s a fun allegation to make but it doesn’t really have much traction except among people who are firmly pro-Trump to begin with. It’s true that Biden is gaffe prone (always has been) so his handlers are trying to keep him in his basement as much as possible (the Rona is a great excuse) but they have committed to doing 3 debates. If they didn’t want to do 3 they would have never agreed to 3 in the first place.

    Agreed. Everyone should forget the “senile” business. I believe his problem is his blood-thinner intake. It has to be monitored very carefully. If too much gets into his system, he will begin to appear lost.

    He won’t be able to follow or initiate long trains of thought.
    Blood thinners can even interact with food he eats. Eating the wrong thing can produce the same effect as if he was overprescribed.

    If they just lower his dose a few days before the debates, his brain fog will clear, but he’ll be in major danger of stroking out. Blood thinners (like warafin) at his age is a requirement for keeping him alive. Without them, he’d be dead by now. Taking them, however, undermines his ability to speak without losing his way.

    Blood thinners and whatever else he’s taking is the balancing act his handler’s have to monitor like a mission to the moon during the debates.

    So forget about him being senile. That’s not the drama we’re watching. It’s not appearing senile that is his doctor’s problem.

    And that, imo, is current the drama of the Biden campaign.

    If I were advising Trump’s crew, I’d say that Trump should start “nice,” and then lean in. Crank up Biden’s blood pressure, and he’ll go haywire. Get in there with a lot of energy, focus, keep switching gears on him–and lean into Hunter.

    Every topic MSNBC has avoided or soft-pedaled with Biden serves as Trump’s list of “things to do.”

    MSNBC and CNN have been “softening” Biden up all this time!

    Just keep “going there.” Don’t let all their hard work go to waste!

    • Agree: Sam Malone
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  97. …Mondale won the first debate in 1984…

    Most debates are fairly inconclusive, but that one wasn’t. Mondale kicked Reagan’s ass that night. He got a big bump in the polls too…but it didn’t last very long. I was a 14-year-old Mondale supporter at the time, so I remember being pretty excited.

    • Replies: @SC Rebel
  98. Jack D says:
    @SimpleSong

    It’s worse than that. No one really cares about the policy proposals that the candidates make, any more than they care about Party platforms except for the handful of people who are committed (mostly Democrat) voters who are policy geeks (IIRC, they didn’t even bother adopting a Republican platform this time). “Winning” the debate is mainly about optics, not substance – who looks the most “Presidential” and leader like. Who looks nervous and who looks relaxed and confident. Etc.

    Biden is going to say poll tested things like “I denounce rioting” anyway (and Trump will say that all Americans deserve health care) so there is not going to be a lot of policy daylight between the candidates on the debate stage (though of course Biden would rule as a Leftist in reality).

  99. J1234 says:
    @Peter Johnson

    Brit Hume was interviewing Corey Lewandowski and brought up a point that I’ve been pondering recently: What if Biden detractors have been setting such a low expectation for his debate performance over the last few months that any sub-standard performance that exceeds that expectation is presented (and perceived) as a win? The public may be expecting Biden to talk like someone who belongs in a nursing home, and when the reality doesn’t live down to that expectation, the takeaway for a significant number of people may be primarily how false the dementia narrative was…even if Biden does poorly. We’ll see, I guess.

    • Agree: Muggles
  100. Jack D says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    If you listen to the press conference where Trump said this, it is 100% clear that he is being sarcastic and not making a serious request (or any actual request) to the Russians. If he really wanted the Russians to do this for him, he would not have conveyed the request via a public press conference, especially since, according to his enemies he had all sorts of back channels to the Russians. At the moment when he made the “request” Hillary’s server was offline and locked in an FBI vault (after having been wiped “with a cloth” by the best security experts that Democrat $ could buy) so it was not really accessible to the Russians by that point anyway.

    So the fact that the Democrats and the Permanent Government (but I repeat myself) twisted his words into an allegedly serious request goes beyond the usual Leftist cluelessness, humorlessness and protective stupidity. It was a 100% malicious attempt to play “gotcha” when they full well knew that was not what he meant.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
  101. guest007 says:
    @AndrewR

    If you look at the polling for the 2016 Hillary Clinton outperformed Trump. As has been pointed out Trump does bad in debates but also causes pain to whoever is in the debate. The idea that Trump will do anything other than a version of the rally routine is probably wrong.

    • Agree: Old Prude
  102. guest007 says:
    @Polynikes

    Why would anyone expect Biden to talk about policies when President Trump never really walks about policies. President Trump will probably avoid answering most question and no one, even the national media, will notice.

  103. guest007 says:
    @Stephen Paul Foster

    When has President Trump taken advice from anyone? One of the problems with President Trump is that he seems to always do counter to what his advisers have suggested.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
  104. Andy says:

    I remember Dukakis was awful in 1988 (remember his reaction to the question of his wife hypothetically being raped), it destroyed the considerable advantage he got coming from the convention

  105. @SimpleSong

    The fact that you can ‘win’ a debate like this is really a problem. Insofar as the purpose of a debate is to refine, argue, and hone ideas, the format doesn’t allow anywhere near enough time to actually do that.

    No problem with your quote marks around “win,” but they should also surround “debate.” These things aren’t debates; they’re serial press conferences (I forget who said that first, but it’s not original with me). No one who’s been a major-party candidate for President in several decades has packed the intellectual gear to carry an actual debate for two hours. Trump and Biden? They’ll be trying to throw handler-generated zingers at each other, and for Biden’s sake, his handlers had better have crafted ones that are too simple for that drooler to screw up.

  106. Altai says:

    OT: If anyone is interested in following the fighting between Armenia and Azerbaijan, this guy has a nice English language aggregation of events as they happen.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/

    Here is the start of his giant thread that details events as they’ve escalated since mid July.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
  107. donut says:
    @Jack D

    ” TBH, the evidence for Biden’s senility is scant.” Agreed , but predementia is tricky . Someone with predementia can function quite well in familiar surroundings , with family and friends not really catching on . Usually being thrust into a strange environment will trigger an acute and obvious episode that shocks the people who have known them best . Often after returning to familiar circumstances they will recover to a greater or lesser extent . Another thing I noticed is that “foibles” will become more pronounced but not recognized as the beginnings of dementia . I would guess from watching Biden that he in a stage of functioning predementia . The risk for his supporters in the situation of the debates is that it will be a stressful situation in circumstances they can only control to a limited extent . So as you say ” the evidence for Biden’s senility is scant.” we’ll see .

  108. @Harry Baldwin

    Sounds legit. I remember my grandpa had a similar disease, for which docs prescribed these pills. “Take every 45 minutes with a sip of water”, they said. Fourty five minutes seems to be the most common cycle for dementia pills.

  109. So the Bidens release their tax returns just hours before the debate. All choreographed beforehand with NYT and its Monday “bombshell.”

  110. @Altai

    Maybe not OT — watch Wallace pop-quiz Trump on the name of the two warring nations’ leaders

    • Replies: @Altai
    , @Thirdtwin
  111. We’ll know soon if the Democrats “sliced the bologna too thin” in anointing the decrepit soon-to-be 78 yo Biden with the nomination.

    But the role of Biden is clear. It’s the same role he had in 2008: be the straight, white Catholic old-school Democrat to distract whites from the fact that Jewish golems are now running the party.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Father Coughlin
  112. anon[303] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    The worst toxin the GOP bloodstream today is pure hate for the majority of the people who live in this country.

    They always project. Always. It’s trivial to know what they believe, what they are doing, what they intend to do – just look at their accusation-of-the-minute.

  113. I think the NY Times story on Trump has hurt him badly. Not for not paying taxes. But that they are showing he is not a billionaire. Which shows he does not belong in the league with people he respects – billionaire businessmen. Biden would be smart to taunt him on that.

    • Agree: notsaying
  114. @Gordo

    The standard story is that Nixon had been ill and was therefore gaunt, while Kennedy was suntanned. Nixon was offered makeup, but declined when he heard Kennedy wasn’t going to wear any, out of fear the media would make a story out of it. Finally, Kennedy wore a dark suit, while Nixon’s attire was gray, causing him to blend in to the background.

    The irony of the above is that Kennedy was actually fairly sickly, and puffed up from the medication he was taking for Addison’s disease.

  115. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:

    Time for a quick review before the test…

  116. The 1992 debates are amazing in retrospect. Perot looks like a prophet.

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
  117. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    I want to see taxes paid by NYT and its execs.

    Regarding President Trump’s NYT’s revelation:

    nuthin plus nuthin = a NYT somethin.

    Times is a gutter publication.

  118. V. Hickel says:
    @Bruno

    yeah he’s still here, lo these 180 yrs later…

  119. JMcG says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Coffee seems to work for me. Not as well as it did before senility though. I think.

  120. @AndrewR

    There is simply no way Trump doesn’t mop the floor with Biden even though the moderator will obviously be Team Joe.

    Trump had multiple opportunities to absolutely flay Hillary and her open corruption in the first debate. “Clinton Foundation” never passed his lips (at least as far as i can recall). Explaining that that–taking payola–was the reason for the private email server–never done. Trump let her blather about her middle class background and “public service” without pointing out that the Clintons had miraculously accumulated $100m in “public service”–basically through this “pay us and we’ll take care of you” protection racket shakedown.

    Beyond that on the critical policy issue of our day, Trump never coherently made the case that mass immigration is an attack on jobs, wages, housing, the environment … all the stuff Democrats like to blather (lie) endlessly about. That the Democrats’ policies destroy the prospects of young people, of our children.

    A presidential candidate who cogently makes this case will be the guy who upends our politics. Until then, popular sentiments–both on immigration and more generally that they are getting screwed and the future for their kids is bleak–remain mostly untapped.

    Trump’s got attitude, and that counts for something. But the world’s greatest debater he’s not.

  121. @syonredux

    Niskanen co-founder Jerry Taylor

    I don’t remember William Niskanen being a nut, or an SJW. What’s with his eponymous foundation?

  122. theMann says:

    Nobody looks away from a train wreck. This will be the most watched debate ever.

  123. @BB753

    Biden is part half-witted, possibly a former cokehead and part senile. Not a good combo but good enough for the highest office in the country, it seems.

    Or the third-highest.

    https://www.teammitch.com/store/

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  124. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Trump’s got attitude, and that counts for something. But the world’s greatest debater he’s not.

    Reminds me of the story of an angry bear approaching a couple of hikers.

    The first hiker quickly takes off his hiking boots, takes out a pair of running shoes from his backpack, and laces them up.

    The other says, “those stupid tennis shoes won’t help. That bear can still outrun you.”

    First fellow says, “I don’t have to outrun the bear. I only have to outrun you.”

  125. @Jack D

    But what gets thru to the average idiot is “Trump only paid $750 in taxes”.

    If being upset that Trump was able to use his economic resources to attain such atmospheric levels of consumption, prestige, and power all while not paying any taxes on it makes me an idiot than I don’t want to be smart.

    What Trump did is 100% legal.

    You have no way of knowing that. Trump is sleazy even by NYC developer sleaze standards so who knows exactly where on the spectrum all of his behavior fell.

    Certainly a lot of what he did is legal, which just makes the contents of his signature achievement of Tax reform that much more repellent and despicable.

    my rule of scandals: the scandal isn’t what’s illegal, the scandal is what’s legal.

    -Michael Kinsley

    • Agree: AndrewR
  126. Mungerite says:

    OT. in the ongoing series of the decline and fall of good old H:

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/9/24/rephairations/

    When I ask Sipho Mangcu, Yvonne M. Adams, and Heidi F. Bailey what prompted them to open Arlington’s first Black hair shop, the co-owners of “RepHAIRations” flash me three exasperated smiles that seem to say, Where to begin?

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/9/28/kane-to-temporarily-stop-lecturing/

    In their Saturday message to students, Gov 50 teaching fellows proposed to meet with students privately instead of in lectures to encourage the administration to identify a replacement for Kane.

    “The teaching staff and I want to do what’s best for you, our students,” the teaching fellows wrote to their students Saturday. “None of us want to continue with DK. At the same time, we want to make sure you don’t feel that we are abandoning you.”

    “We propose the following: We, the teaching staff, will continue meeting with you in private recitations,” the email continues. “We, the teaching staff, and you, the students, will collectively not be present for any lectures taught by DK. We hope this will put pressure on the administration who will be forced to find a replacement for him.”

  127. Altai says:
    @Known Fact

    Trump should preempt by asking as many journos as he can find. But it is generating some top class blue tick moments.

    The bluetick (This guy doesn’t actually have one but it’s a spiritual state) must be wary of operating under an opinion that the plebs might hold, he must construct elegant hyper autistic ‘centrism’. Both sides are equally to blame you see!

    The people never changed no matter what political maps said. They were Armenian before and Armenian after. The place was never less than 85% Armenian and is 100% today. The Azeris were the imperial colonists. In any case it’s a very weak argument that 75 years (He curiously doesn’t state that was how long the ‘Khanate’ lasted) makes them Azeri forever when they weren’t even part of an Azeri state during that time anyway.

    What’s weird is this argument is broached by a man named ‘de Waal’ given.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Netherlands
    1556–1714

    Longer ago and lasting more than twice as long. Yet I don’t think anyone would even think to say Spain has a claim on that land today. Or maybe they would, blueticks keep big braining to impress.

    But he is born in England to a half Dutch half Jewish father. Anywhere alert.

  128. @TTSSYF

    And in 2016, minus the phony CA beaner vote the old dowager queen wouldn’t have even beaten Trump on the pop tally, let alone the E.C.

  129. @SteveRogers42

    Good but you forgot “Come on man, I heard you liked me. You either like me or the other Biden. Come on man, you like me, you stupid bastard.”

  130. Hibernian says:
    @Known Fact

    A strong perception of a likeness to a relative in assisted living may inspire a fair number of independents/moderates to stay home, skip the top of the ballot, vote 3rd party (I did), or reluctantly join Team Trump.

  131. @YetAnotherAnon

    If you have elderly, single relatives within a reachable distance (say within 150 miles), take them out for lunch!

    I

    What is beneficial too – bring them in contact with people they in one way or another dealt with – even if that was a long time ago. As long as they did once like them it might well work. Very refreshing for everybody. In his last year I at times sat with my father in front of his house in a southern German village and waited, if somebody would come along and talk, and people – almost always – did. Very moving if nobody showed up and my father would say: Lets go back into the house again, I’m tired – this was very nice…

    II

    Anthropological constant – the marriage driving distance: Three hours – since ages this is a distance that works indeed for everybody involved. No matter which vehicle is used – three hours are ok.

  132. Altai says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Given his earnestness at the end of ‘The Big Short’ with a really weird and unnecessary, when you think about it, dumb white plebs will just ‘blame immigrants’ for the financial crisis, (Outside them being the grist both of the cheap labour to make the houses and people to give subprime loans to, I don’t remember that argument being made by ‘Joe the plumber’ types. But it’s fascinating that in 2014 before Trump or the SJW overreach caused a backlash, they were obsessed) I don’t think he’d be up for that, not until Trump is drone-striked and Biden is indeed, reduced to a mere ‘white man’ and not ‘not Trump’.

    The real Eisman was by all reports a turbo sperg who could be Nassim Taleb like in his demeanor and likely couldn’t have given a damn about the impact on other people so long as he made money or was proven right. Let alone do a sombre Aaron Sorkin ‘JFK used to be president!’ speech after making a fortune.

    The real magic in that scene involving his prophetic words is it totally ignores Obama’s capitulation to the banks and his lack of action when he was the one in the perfect position to do something about it.

    • Agree: Ian Smith
  133. @Jack D

    Unless the Leftist consensus is that Biden should step aside and let a proud black woman take the office that she deserves (and by no means do I rule out that that won’t happen). If that’s the new Party line, then they will go after him hammer and tongs.

    Hammer and tongs, hummer with tongue. Same same.

  134. @Old Prude

    I always remember the moment in one of the 2000 debates when out of the blue while Bush was speaking Al Gore weirdly went right up close to Bush in a sort of challenging way, not saying anything but just posturing in a juvenile “Oh yeah, what’s up now, man?” kind of way, and Bush stopped talking and just looked at him and said “What?”, as in “What are you doing?” and the audience actually sort of laughed with Bush because whatever Gore was trying to do came out of nowhere. I always remembered that as a genuinely amusing moment where Gore was totally out of step with everyone.

    • Agree: Old Prude
  135. @donut

    I have no medical expertise but functioning predementia sounds very plausible, having listened and watched his behavior. How long usually until that condition becomes more debilitating? Six to nine months, or four years?

  136. @donut

    Whether the evidence for senility is scant or not, the evidence for old age is abundantly clear. Regardless of whether he meets some clinical definition of dementia, the guy is obviously at the end of his trail. Let’s just stick to the essentials here rather than argue over some Kremlinological diagnosis.

    • Agree: black sea, Chrisnonymous
  137. The fact that Biden is debating shows that he has mediocre advisors. At best he can coast by and not change the election. Worst case he is a total disaster by making some racial gaffe or explodes when Trump brings up Hunter. It’s just a poor risk/reward scenario even if debating is in fact a tradition. Pelosi is aware of this which is why she suggested that he call it off.

    Picking Harris was also a bad idea. There is no reason to cater to Blacks, they vote 90% Democrat regardless of the candidate. Now independent voters have to contend with the possibility of a President Harris which means a 1% Black prosecutor that only got ahead by giving it.

    I suspect that liberalism is in many ways a victim of its own success. The people making the decisions at the top got there by virtue signaling and showing the right feelings. Introverted and calculating Whites that normally make these decisions are no longer welcome. Not enough feels.

    • Replies: @SC Rebel
    , @Cato
  138. Huisache says: • Website

    When I was a kid my mom would take me to the zoo in San Antonio. She told me later that I got great pleasure watching the denizens of the monkey island slinging feces at each other. So you might think I would enjoy watching these two chimps sling it

    But it seems to me that only the senile and the insane could garner any pleasure from such a spectacle

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
  139. Hibernian says:
    @SimpleSong

    It shows who can handle pressure, which is important for such a sensitive job.

  140. tyrone says:
    @SteveRogers42

    HEY! you forgot “lying dog faced pony soldier” possibly the best.

  141. Acilius says: • Website
    @I, Libertine

    That wristwatch moment was pretty important, I’d say. A candidates’ debate is a job interview, among other things, and everyone who’s ever looked for employment has been warned against looking at their watch during the interview.

  142. @AnotherDad

    Yes, I remember being fairly underwhelmed and disappointed with Trump’s debate performance in 2016 because, as you say, he never really seemed to hold Hillary’s feet to the fire the way he might have. Rather than sustained substantive criticism of things like the Clinton Foundation, his attacks were mostly confined to wandering, surface-level, emotive lashing out that didn’t do nearly as much damage as someone with a focused and informed mind could have accomplished. Unfortunately my hopes aren’t too high for him doing much better than that tonight. The big accomplishment will be for him not to say anything mindblowingly absurd/outrageous/untrue.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
  143. Will the Trump team interfere with Biden’s bone conduction receiver device people claim he has been fitted with?

  144. Tim says:

    A lot of things could happen, but I think that very well may happen is that Biden walks right into a punch.

  145. res says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    More on that.
    https://thepostmillennial.com/trump-campaign-asks-for-inspections-for-electronic-devices-or-transmitters-amid-tuesday-nights-debate
    I thought this was even more interesting.

    Director of Communications for the Trump campaign took to Twitter around noon on Tuesday, tweeting the following statement: “Joe Biden’s handlers several days ago agreed to a pre-debate inspection for electronic earpieces but today abruptly reversed themselves and declined.

    I wonder if the reversal is an attempt to negotiate for breaks.

  146. Jack D says:
    @Father Coughlin

    Right – the fact that the Supreme Ct. has been majority or more Catholic for the last 15 years and that 30% of Congress is Catholic (vs. 20% of the population) and that the President may now be Catholic too is all just a big distraction by our Jooish puppet masters. After all, the Catholic Church has been known for its friendly approach to Jews for hundreds if not thousands of years so who better to pick as their puppets than those who swear allegiance to the Pope of Rome.

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
  147. Resolved:

    Should we have very big government, or gigantic, colossal government?

    Should the USG spend $75B on public education, or $90B?

    Should we have troops in 97 foreign countries, or in 105?

  148. Who are Arun Bhumitra, Nachhattar Chandi, Harmeet Dhillon, Truong Si, and Papa Doug Manchester?

    Why, those names were on Trump’s prospective slate of electors* from California in 2016. Donald’s list was actually more diverse than Hillary’s!

    National Archives PDF: California Certificate of Ascertainment 2016

    (It’s nice to see Ed Clark’s name on the Libertarian slate.)

    *Republican electors, that is. Trump had a second slate from the American Independent Party, which included several former congressmen, e.g., Virgil Goode, John LeBoutillier, and B-1 Bob Dornan.

    What’s that about? In New York, the ultimate “fusion” state, minor parties are given places on the regular slates of the candidates they endorse. 93-year-old Hazel Ingram (will she be back for 2020?) represented the Working Families Party on Clinton-Kaine’s, and Rachel Gold the Cuomo-front Women’s Equality Party. I recognized Conservative Party stalwarts Shaun Marie Levine and Howard Lim on Trump-Pence’s slate. (Don Jr was there, too.)

    National Archives PDF: New York Certificate of Ascertainment 2016

    What’s the purpose of the second slate in California? The certificate counts the totals together.

  149. Jack D says:
    @John Johnson

    Having a bloopers reel isn’t the same as being senile. There are clips where Trump slurs his words or uses two hands to drink from a water bottle but that doesn’t make him senile either.

    Neither of the candidates is a spring chicken. As I said before, all of these accusations against Biden would go down better if Trump was a notable contrast. If the Republican candidate was a verbally nimble and articulate 45 year old (say a Republican Bill Clinton) then maybe he could run rings around Sleepy Joe but what we are going to have is a fight between two over-the-hill boxers because our society is going thru some kind of Late Soviet period of its own.

    • Agree: epebble, ic1000
  150. @Stephen Paul Foster

    Which he will, which will make him look like the worst bully since Bluto

    Thanks, this is an important point. Trump can’t be seen as engaging in some form of elder abuse. Hopefully he can credibly feign concern when Biden starts going off the rails. Women dislike bullies (despite Whiskey’s mandingo fantasies).

    Unless Biden is far more with it than he’s seemed in his recent public appearances, he’s going to make Trump’s for him. Piling on a confused, senile old man won’t look good.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
  151. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Being an elector is a minor honor reserved for local party hacks or donors who can be counted upon to vote their candidate (they may or may not have the legal right to do otherwise but 99.9% of the time they do what they are supposed to do in any case – “faithless electors” exist in hypotheticals far more than they exist in reality). It is not really a meaningful office. So designating minorities as electors is just a variation on “Plaques for Blacks”.

    • Replies: @res
  152. @Polynikes

    Wouldn’t the generic advice for anyone running against Trump just be to stay out of the limelight as much as possible to keep the focus on the freakishly unpopular incumbent and the general shitshow state of the country?

    I know all the self styled galaxy brains on here think that since they like him it’s inconceivable but Trump is just not very popular and alienates lots of people. That’s probably the single most salient fact governing the election and should be used to determine opposition strategy.

    Clinton was not senile and she would have done well to follow Biden’s strategy and keep the focus on Trump

    • Replies: @Polynikes
  153. @James Braxton

    Yes, yes he does. That’s too bad, actually; but when the Globalist Uniparty feels some heat, they close ranks to expel the bearer of inconvenient truths.

    They miscalculated with Trump, thinking that it was in the bag, when so much blame lay with them for doing all of their premature victory laps. I was going to vote for Trump anyway, but I, and apparently numerous others, snapped to attention when Hellary characterized so many citizens as “deplorables”, and hence beneath contempt. I think that perhaps that was the victory lap that did for her.

  154. @Anonymous

    “I believe his problem is his blood-thinner intake. It has to be monitored very carefully. If too much gets into his system, he will begin to appear lost.”

    Which blood thinners are these? Admittedly I’m only looking at Wiki, but warfarin doesn’t have any such side effects mentioned.

    Btw did you know that deliberately contaminated Chinese heparin killed 81 people in the US in 2008?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_heparin_adulteration

    2008 Chinese heparin adulteration, refers to heparin adulteration incidents that occurred in the United States of America in 2008. Pharmaceutical company Baxter International subcontracted the creation of precursor chemicals of Heparin to Scientific Protein Laboratories, an American company with production facilities located in China. Scientific Protein Laboratories then used counterfeit precursors to create the chemicals ordered. Baxter then sold this Heparin contaminated with the counterfeit chemicals in the US, which killed 81 people, and left 785 severely injured.

    Upon investigation of these adverse events by the FDA, academic institutions, and the involved pharmaceutical companies, the contaminant was identified as an “over-sulfated” derivative of chondroitin sulfate, a closely related substance obtained from mammal or fish cartilage and often used as a treatment for arthritis. Since over-sulfated chondroitin is not a naturally occurring molecule, costs a fraction of true heparin starting material, and mimics the in-vitro properties of heparin, the counterfeit was almost certainly intentional as opposed to an accidental lapse in manufacturing. The raw heparin batches were found to have been cut from 2–60% with the counterfeit substance, and motivation for the adulteration was attributed to a combination of cost effectiveness and a shortage of suitable pigs in Mainland China.

    • Replies: @anon
  155. @Jonathan Mason

    Jimmy Carter, who lost the election over the Iran hostages issue.

    Just when I think “Mason can’t possibly be this uninformed” you come along to convince you are.

    Carter lost over much more than the hostage issue. You don’t lose in a massive landslide over a single issue. Carter lost b/c he was a timid old woman. He lost over the Panama Canal, he lost over the double digit inflation, interest rates and high unemployment, he lost over our decrepit military as epitomized in the Desert One fiasco, he lost over fuel prices, he lost over saying the problem was a “malaise”. Reagan was a great public speaker and great campaigner and pummeled Carter.

    Does anyone else find it bizarre that uniformed foreigners such as Mason or Sit Utu Sit take such an interest in US affairs and pretend they have the first clue what happens here?

    • Replies: @JMcG
    , @anon
  156. Anon7 says:

    I’m going to avoid watching it with my spouse, to avoid the resulting WHIPMEGMORUM.

    Yeah, I said it.

  157. Bernard says:
    @Thoughts

    I don’t think Biden is that senile

    Hard to imagine that someone could be making a case that a candidate for President of the United States isn’t “that senile”.
    Biden is in obvious cognitive decline, he will not finish his term. I view tonight as a science experiment. Can his doctors find the perfect combination of meds to help him make it through 90 minutes. I doubt it.

  158. @Anon

    Kamala Harris could be in an excellent position if Trump wins re-election. More people typically will be more tired of the incumbent party and their figurehead after eight years in power, than after four years. And, absent a major war (when enough people “in the middle” may be Reluctant to change horses midstream, more people be willing to give another person a chance.

    Kamala will dominate the name recognition game among Dems and the general public, and she won’t have to live with the voter alienation that results from actually doing things and trying to govern. In other words, she can’t be blamed for whatever destructive or unwise policies the biden/harris (then just Harris) administration would have enacted. Nor can she be blamed for four more years of the ongoing deterioration of our physical infrastructure. Nor for four more years of increased crowding and unaffordable housing in many of our cities, coastal and otherwise.

    Harris will have four more years of economic destruction and social despair caused in large part by the plandemic lockdowns, which most people will associate with Trump and his incumbent party more than they should. More people will lose their jobs and their employer-provided medical insurance, with Trump likely amd the congressional republicans certainly offering them nothing in its place.

    Nobody can blame Harris for the dems losing to trump, either; Biden is the top of the ticket, after all, and is an unusually poor candidate. Harris comes out in January 2021 smelling like roses and proceeds to dominate Democrat fundraising for three and half years. She builds a lockstep network of state- and city-level endorsements, and she’ll have even more media bias in her favor than usual.

    From 2021 through 2024, Harris leads drives to register massive numbers of new African voters and nonwhite Latino voters (most of them actually living people who are US citizens). Not hard to do when Trump and the Republicans have allowed the Third World colonization of the usa to proceed at a steady pace for four years — eight years by the time Harris runs at the top of the Dem ticket.

    All the while, Dems and establishment corporations, media, and universities whip up racial hatred against whites; serve as apologists for violent rioters and looters; and just sit back and enjoy the carnage and the “law and order” overreaction (or just reaction). Harris, as a prosecutor, plays the responsible figure who can restore both justice and peaceful safe streets and normalcy,once again.

    I can see Trump winning but Harris and a pretend-moderate white male VP candidate thumping the Republicans in 2024. Maybe another really old guy who can step down after four years and yield to the first-ever major-party LATINO VP nominee.

    Two terms for Trump, then Harris/Token White Guy, then Harris/Mexican.
    They should be paying me.

    • Disagree: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @Jmaie
  159. @guest007

    One of the problems with President Trump is that he seems to always do counter to what his advisers have suggested.

    I wouldn’t call it a problem, since Trump usually turns out to have been right.

    • Replies: @guest007
  160. utu says:
    @Prester John

    “I always suspected that Old Man Bush never had the stones…” – He wanted to run. After the Desert Storm he had the highest approval rating ever for any president. But he miscalculated when he got in to the conflict with The Lobby and backed off and then he knew he was finished, so he played to lose the election. Checking his watch during a debate was this body language talking that he did not want to be there.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/george-bush-in-box-president-or-grand-strategist/#comment-2651987
    (4) Using his political capital after the war Bush wants to assert himself against Israel and Yitzhak Shamir by attaching conditions to funding for new settlements. No other president stood up to Israel like that since JFK. He wants to take a tough stand at Madrid Middle East peace conference. Allegation are made by Victor Ostrovsky that Mossad was considering assassinating Bush. Bush lost this battle because he had no guts to level with American people what was the issue about. This critical event went under the radar for most of Americans.

    http://ariwatch.com/OurAlly/FoiledAssassinationOfPresident.htm

    (5) Bush is deemed untrustworthy by the Lobby and a big risk to Israel as a second term president. Anti Bush campaign begins in NYT with weekly columns of Friedman and Safire. Bad economy meme is created.

    (6). Useful idiot Ross Perot enters the race. The exact repeat of play from 1912 election when the incumbent Taft was denied reelection by the third party run of Teddy Roosevelt to elect Wilson. Clinton is elected and just like Wilson does everything Wall Street wants. Clinton deregulates banking and sets the course for the neoliberal globalization.

    • Replies: @Jasper Been
  161. utu says:
    @Jack D

    Q: I the 3% depreciation every year the same from the original value?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Muggles
  162. Bernard says:
    @Jack D

    Having a bloopers reel isn’t the same as being senile. There are clips where Trump slurs his words or uses two hands to drink from a water bottle but that doesn’t make him senile either.

    Maybe you’re playing the Devils Advocate, not quite sure. If you’ve been around people in similar states of decline, it’s very obvious that Biden has dementia. Try this, take a look at a video of him from 2016. You’ll notice drastic differences from today’s Biden in the cadence of his speech and his ability to track a line of reasoning from beginning to end. You’ll also notice that his eyes lack focus and are dull in appearance. These the signs of severe cognitive decline.

    There’s no such difference between Trump 2016 and Trump 2020.

  163. utu says:
    @Jack D

    …30% of Congress is Catholic (vs. 20% of the population)… – For Catholics to reach the level of Jewish overrepresentation in Congress 350 millions of non-Catholics would have to be added to the population.

    Congress Is Now 3 Times More Jewish Than United States As A Whole
    https://forward.com/fast-forward/417047/congress-is-now-3-times-more-jewish-than-united-states-as-a-whole/

    • Replies: @Simon Tanner
    , @Yngvar
  164. @Jack D

    Having a bloopers reel isn’t the same as being senile. There are clips where Trump slurs his words or uses two hands to drink from a water bottle but that doesn’t make him senile either.

    A blooper reel???? You are in serious denial.

    He does this about every week.

    That was the third time he turned his hundred thousands into millions

    Keep the Senate?

    Entered 180 years ago

    • Replies: @V. Hickel
  165. @tyrone

    Drinking game : take a shot every time joe says “come on man!”….or every time Trump says” Hunter”.

    Add “here’s the deal” and beginning a sentence with “Look,” for Biden.

    Two shots if Trump says “Sleepy” followed by “Joe”.

  166. Muggles says:
    @Johann Ricke

    The right time to have released them was a little after the 2016 election. Instead, we’re getting them now, a month before Election Day.

    No, that’s incorrect. You are being scammed by the NYT. They didn’t claim they had the actual returns and are very fuzzy about the basis for their claims. The Ghost of Will Duranty Still Lives!

    There would be hundreds of pages of 10 years of Trump returns, not to mention thousands in the business returns (if you had those.) At best only bits and pieces were available for this story.

    The Times has been duping the public with innuendo about Trump taxes. It is “so what?” for average people but the Trump Derangement Syndrome mafia regard his taxes as one of their holy demands. They also claim he’s “broke” and in economic crisis, etc. False also. There is an AP story out (I think from there) explaining that the tax story is half baked lies and based on faulty assumptions, etc. Also that Trump’s net worth is > $2.5 billion per Forbes.

    None of that matters really. But once these fabrications and exaggerations, misrepresentations are passed around the anti Trump Church, they become articles of faith that mere facts won’t dislodge easily, or at all.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
  167. res says:
    @Jack D

    “faithless electors” exist in hypotheticals far more than they exist in reality). It is not really a meaningful office. So designating minorities as electors is just a variation on “Plaques for Blacks”.

    I think it is worth pondering whether there might be any correlation between those two points. Put more simply, do you think more black electors might change the likelihood of faithless electors?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Reg Cæsar
  168. Muggles says:
    @Steve Richter

    See the very recent Forbes article.

    Claims that Trump isn’t a billionaire, going broke, etc. are must the usual pack of lies

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/09/08/trumps-net-worth-drops-600-million-in-a-year-to-25-billion/#7bd2ae723637

  169. Jack D says:
    @utu

    Not quite sure what you are asking but let’s say you buy a building for $1 million (a portion of the value is land which is non-depreciable – a rule of thumb is 20% so you have an $800,000 depreciable asset). In most cases, it has to be depreciated over 31.5 years (so long as you continue to own the building) but non-structural items like wall coverings, carpet, fixtures can be classified as personal property. Personal property can be depreciated over a shorter period (typically five or seven years). Improvements such as parking lots and landscaping are depreciated over 15 years. If you do nothing then you are going to get these deductions every year (until they run out – once you have depreciated an item to zero then no more depreciation deduction).

    Let’s say that in year 10 the building is starting to look a little bit the worse for wear and you need to put new carpet in the lobby and redo the bathrooms with new fixtures and tile. Not just repairs but actual replacement of capital items and you spend $100,000 on these. You don’t get to write off the $100,000 immediately but you can write them off over their useful life (which is either 31.5, 15, 7 or 5 years depending on the nature of the improvements). So the (up to) 31.5 year clock starts all over again on these improvements (not the whole building, just the improvements).

    All of these concepts are from accounting and pre-date the tax code so they are not “loopholes” or “Swiss cheese” – they are just sound accounting. It’s a little counter intuitive because we don’t think of real estate as a depreciating asset but it is. If you think about an automobile or a machine that wears out after a few years it makes perfect sense that you have to write down a portion of its value every year or the value on the books would be overstated. Buildings also wear out, just more slowly, thus the 31.5 year schedule.

  170. @Reg Cæsar

    Working Families Party

    I can never let a mention of that party go without noting that it is neither pro-work nor pro-family. It’s like the Holy Roman Empire of political parties.

  171. Muggles says:
    @utu

    Q: Is the 3% depreciation every year the same from the original value?

    Yes, depreciation is based on original costs.

    Capital improvements, additions, etc. will be separately depreciated when purchased and put into service. The details can be pretty complex. (Repairs vs. capital improvements, etc.)

    Only raw land costs aren’t depreciated in real estate tax accounting (or otherwise expensed).

    • Agree: Jack D
  172. “About tonight’s debate, I hope it turns into a donnybrook over who invented the lightbulb.”

    And that would be YUGE.

  173. @utu

    Interesting. I also heard a wild rumor about the time when Bush 41 became violently ill in Japan and vomited. Supposedly that was an assassination attempt via poisoning courtesy of Our Greatest Ally. But we’re far afield now…

  174. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Richter

    Biden would be smart to taunt him on that.

    That would be a big yawn. Better question would be to ask which foreign country will help out when your personal $421 million debt will come due in 2022? Is this the reason you are unusually servile to Putin and the Saudi Prince?

  175. sayless says:
    @El Dato

    Well El Dato of course it’s the eldritch energy, any schoolboy knows that, but first you have to crack the amulet.

    So who are you voting for?

  176. Thirdtwin says:
    @Known Fact

    Very likely, and also likely is Biden being forewarned to be up on the answer to that question. I recall Biden in his debate with Palin throwing around the term “Bosniak” as he held forth on the intricacies of the Yugoslavian conflict. But I don’t know if he can manage the same level of pedantry today without trailing off into “look, here’s the deal…”

  177. Jack D says:
    @res

    As I said before, faithless electors (up until now) have not proven to be a real life problem – in the last 100 years there have been an average of maybe 1 per election.

    What happens to a faithless elector is a matter of state law and we have 50 states and 50 laws. State laws may impose a fine on an elector who fails to vote according to the popular vote or disqualify an elector who violates his or her pledge and provide a replacement elector. In 2020, the Supreme Court ruled in Chiafalo v. Washington these laws are Constitutionally permissible. Most of the laws currently call for fines in the range of $1,000 but $100,000 or $1 million would probably be lawful too, or maybe even imprisonment. If faithless electors were a major problem (for the party in control of the state legislature) they could be brought into line, but up until now there has been very little need.

    • Replies: @res
  178. @Johann Ricke

    His stonewalling on his returns right up to this point is strange, from an electioneering perspective.

    There’s no requirement a candidate release their taxes, its just been “tradition”. The difference is most recent candidates have been career politicians so their taxes were pretty straightforward and we got thrilling stuff such as what deduction Clinton took when he donated old boxer shorts to Goodwill.

    Trump most likely figured the taxes are nobody’s business (which they’re not) and declined to participate in the charade, just like when he blew off the correspondent’s dinner. Perhaps the NEXT time Trump doesn’t do things as everyone else has will be when people stop pretending to be shocked.

    I think it would be funny if his next move was to just email the State of the Union address. There’s no requirement it be a speech (the first speech was in 1913) and if they’re going to boo and eye-roll and rip up the transcripts, the hell with it.

    Anyone with a passing familiarity with the tax code would have known that Trump’s returns would be extremely complex and some halfwit at the NYT wouldn’t be able to make heads nor tails from them. It’s not like he files a 1040 EZ.

  179. Marat says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    Not really. Rumor circulated about a month ago that Joe’s on Namenda, which like Aricept, is titrated up (over weeks) and has a maximum dose, but beyond which there is no more ‘wiggle room’. Best thing is having the person on a regular routine and any curve ball to their daily routine almost guarantees “surprises” in a high stress social situation. And normally, the day is OVER at sundown – so who knows what they’re doing to help him cope with functioning in the late day/evening.

    One of the sticky-wicket situations with any Aged One is the entry interviews (and semiannual performance reviews thereafter) for independent living/ memory care facilities. Staff cuts slack due to normal confusion from deteriorating hearing, sight and normal age-appropriate dementia. Eating off the neighbor’s plate, patting a passerby’s bottom, or locking oneself in a bathroom stall are not deal breakers there … but at 1600 Penn?

    Llyod Benson might have proclaimed that he knew Nancy Reagan, Nancy Reagan was a friend of his, and that you, Dr Jill Biden, are no Nancy Reagan.

  180. @Father Coughlin

    Context denial plus “it’s all your fault, even if it is”?

  181. Whiskey says: • Website
    @William Badwhite

    Jacob Blake Jr a well know bully and abuser of women had 3x the number of kids that either Elon Musk or Suck has.

    So, once again I am sadly right.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  182. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite

    Theres a many years old photo of Trump next to his pre electronic tax return. Signing them as custom in that era. People seemingly forget the age and duration of his career. Presumably by 45 years ago he was filing meaningful income tax returns. You cannot bypass inheritance taxes and his parents only died about 20-25 years ago.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-edit-trump-taxes-20200512-hdh5b433q5fhtionuz2aekhori-story.html

  183. @Steve Sailer

    If Kanye West was brought on as well, the resulting exchange of ideas would permanently enrich humanity. Descartes meets Pascal and Leibniz. Everyone in the room would be more enlightened for having witnessed it.

  184. res says:
    @Jack D

    I agree with you about the history. My concern is that we seem to be entering a phase where many people don’t seem to care about the historical norms anymore.

    Consider this.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_electors_in_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election

    In the 2016 United States presidential election, ten members of the Electoral College voted or attempted to vote for a candidate different from whom they were pledged.[1]

    Although there had been a combined total of 155 instances of individual electors voting faithlessly prior to 2016 in over two centuries of previous US presidential elections,[5] 2016 was the first election in over a hundred years in which multiple electors worked to alter the result of the election.

    That happened with Trump having a 37 elector edge (i.e. little chance of success). Imagine what could happen if Trump wins the electoral college by a small margin in 2020.

    What I find interesting is how little commentary that page has on why more faithless electors reneged on Hillary than Trump.

  185. @Andy

    I remember Dukakis was awful in 1988 (remember his reaction to the question of his wife hypothetically being raped), it destroyed the considerable advantage he got coming from the convention

    Then there was this:

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  186. @Steve Richter

    But that they are showing he is not a billionaire

    No they aren’t. Tax returns have very little to do with your net worth. In business terms, one is an Income Statement when you need a Balance Sheet.

    Do you include the value of your home, 401k, brokerage accounts, etc on your taxes? I don’t.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
  187. JMcG says:
    @William Badwhite

    It’s very much in the style of those who’ve moved from the city and inner ring suburbs to my formerly rural idyll and promptly started lecturing us on how we’ve been doing it wrong all these years.

  188. Nico says:
    @AnotherDad

    Yes.

    Biden is going to do terribly unless he gets his earpiece and breaks. Even then Trump will have ample opportunity to completely decimate Biden but if precedent is any indication, Trump will not seize the occasion.

    I am not saying this because I like it. I voted for Trump very enthusiastically in 2016 and will do so with the same enthusiasm this year. But to say I am annoyed with the man’s debate meanderings is mincing words.

  189. @William Badwhite

    There’s no requirement a candidate release their taxes, its just been “tradition”. The difference is most recent candidates have been career politicians so their taxes were pretty straightforward and we got thrilling stuff such as what deduction Clinton took when he donated old boxer shorts to Goodwill.

    This is correct. Most politicians are lawyers and on the payroll of the government so their taxes aren’t that interesting.

    What they do show is how most Democrats are millionaires that donate very little to charity. They profess to care about the poor but not to where they want to spend their own money. Of course the press never points this out.

  190. JohnnyD says:

    I heard Jeb Bush has been training Biden on how to take blows from Trump.

  191. @Jack D

    The loophole (or whatever you wanna call it) is that you can “realize” capital gains through rents and loans that reflect a higher land+building valuation than you’ve been taxed for without actually having to pay any tax on those gains. That’s what allows someone like Trump is utilize increasing value of economic resources to attain so much consumption, prestige, and power and still pay so little in taxes.

    That’s not even getting into the like kind exchanges and capital gains rates.

    It’s so obviously a fucked up system to anyone with a functional brain and emotions. The economic cuckness of conservatives is even more extreme than the Israel cuckness and that’s saying something! Sad!

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Johann Ricke
  192. Hibernian says:
    @Jack D

    That 31.5 years is generous; that makes real estate investment attractive.

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @Muggles
  193. @William Badwhite

    An cynical, career politician, knowing that he will someday put his 1040 in the public domain, will structure it so as to make himself look good.

    Wow! The guy made $200K/$2M in his most recent office/who-ya-know gig, and he gave a third of it to charity!

    [MORE]

    I’d love it if Trump would proudly announce that he made eight or nine figures in 2012 (or whatever year before 2017), and managed to pay less than $1,000 in federal income tax.

    “I want every American to pay the same, low tax rate that I did, and someday, hopefully, ZERO!”

    By the way, aside from constitutional officers, politicians and government workers don’t really pay taxes. They consume them.

  194. Hunsdon says:
    @Jack D

    Hammer and tongs? Comrade, I believe you meant, hammer and sickle.

  195. guest007 says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    What would be examples of Trump going against his political advisors and getting a huge political win that increased his approval ratings and caused more people to vote for Repubicans?

    President Trump’s standard operation is go say something incredibly stupid, spin the media up on what he said, and then have his defendser spin a response.

    Image what President Trump’s approval ratings would be if he had taken Covid-19 seriously rather than trying to ignore it.

  196. guest007 says:
    @Peter Johnson

    Why is everyone convinced Biden is senile when President Trump used the term “herd mentality” when discussing Covid-19, what to phone a friend twice during an interview, and could not interpret a basic graph while being interviewed.

    President Trump has not read a complete novel or book in his life and is incapable of reviewing his briefing books. Yet, all the emphasis in on Biden.

    Image what would happen to President Trump is he faced Bill Clinton or Barack Obama during their campaign runs.

  197. @res

    Put more simply, do you think more black electors might change the likelihood of faithless electors?

    A black DC elector, Barbara Lett-Simmons, abstained in 2000 as an in-your-face protest of her torn square’s lack of representation. Fine with me. The real problem is that the other two electors didn’t.

    Emily Conrad just published a fascinating new book, The Faithless?: The Untold Story of the Electoral College, which suggests that ethnic minorities are more likely than whites to do so. Two of Washington’s and one of Hawaii’s in 2016 were full- or part-American Indian. A couple of her subjects were Hispanics. The Republican one resigned rather than vote for Trump, as did a Vietnamese fellow in Georgia, so they don’t show on the scoreboard.

    White electors in Colorado and Maine and a Somali one in Minnesota cast deviant votes, but theirs were rejected. Of the eight electors (or ex-electors) featured in Miss Conrad’s book, only two or three are non-Hispanic whites, and one who grew up white but embraced his Indian side.

    She was disappointed not to encounter a female conservative perspective, but that type tends to be team players.

    She has pre-and post-election interviews with Robert Alexander, who’s been conducting surveys of electors since 2001 from Ohio Northern University. He’s found that a lot more of them think about going “faithless” but in the end don’t, for all kinds of reasons. Fear, avoidance of punishment, respect for colleagues and/or voters.

    Oh, and an extra treat for libertarians and Little House fans — she devotes a whole chapter to Roger MacBride.

  198. Bill says:
    @Jack D

    Meh. The criticism isn’t that Trump did something wrong. It’s that he is a member of a corrupt class which together does something wrong, say by permitting the depreciation for tax purposes of things which don’t actually depreciate. Like real estate (though that is not the only example).

    It is, in fact, offensive that Trump doesn’t pay taxes, whether or not he is breaking some law.

  199. @Kent Nationalist

    In 2016, it was rumored that Hillary was taking Provigil, an anti-narcolepsy drug some executives use to sharpen their edge right before a big presentation.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  200. @res

    What I find interesting is how little commentary that page has on why more faithless electors reneged on Hillary than Trump.

    Republican electors who objected to him took the nobler step of stepping down.

    No elector has switched to the other major party’s candidate since 1820. Dissident Democrats knew there was no chance for Hillary, so came up with the “Hamilton elector” strategy to throw the election to the House (and Senate, if Pence didn’t reach 270 either). They hoped to replace Trump with a Republican more palatable to them, e.g., Kasich or Powell. See the link to Emily Conrad’s book in my other comment. She interviews several of them, and it’s a gripping read.

    Electoral squeakers in the past have been followed by clearer decisions next time. Don’t expect more than the token single “faithless” this time around.

  201. syonredux says:

    Given the aims of the 1619 Project (demoralizing the Anglo-White population, sacralizing Blacks, etc), this is a useful article:

    The myth of the ‘stolen country’
    What should the Europeans have done with the New World?

    In Canada, in the greater Toronto school district, students are read a statement of apology, acknowledging European guilt for the appropriation of First Nations lands, before the national anthem is played over the PA system every morning.

    It is times like these that we realize the stories we tell ourselves — about our history in particular — are of fundamental importance to the direction our societies take. The shift from Weimar Republic to Nazi Germany was accomplished, first and foremost, by a shift in who controlled the national narrative. Ditto with the shift to communism in eastern Europe, as so movingly chronicled by the late Tony Judt in his book Postwar.

    ​So what can be the harm in acknowledging every morning that Canadians live on stolen First Nations land? The problem is this: if you begin the day by acknowledging that your country, your society, and people of your ancestry are particularly egregious, this is a sure route to self-doubt, impotence and societal failure.

    https://spectator.us/myth-stolen-country-america-new-world/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  202. Jack D says:
    @Paul Mendez

    I know elderly relatives who have taken Provigil. It is no wonder drug, at least in their case. Maybe it helps keep you from nodding off into the mashed potatoes but that’s about it.

    The best bet for short term use (a debate night) is probably amphetamines (meth, Dexedrine) but you have to be careful with the dosage. Especially for a guy like Biden – you don’t want him to suffer a stroke or a heart attack right there on stage.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
  203. @Peter Johnson

    Everything will depend on whether Trump’s team has a method for electronically or visually interfering with the scripted material Biden will be getting from the MSM and other members of the Biden-Harris team.

    In any event, there is no way I will be watching this. To call these events debates is absurd. Neither candidate has the intellectual capacity to debate in an adult manner. Trump cannot articulate an argument whose coherence and rhetorical interest exceed that typical of an elementary school playground dispute. Biden clearly suffers from some form of senile dementia and unless he is doped to the gills or fed scripted material is going to be humiliated.

    If there’s not a good movie on, I’ll be starting my plan to read all of “A la Recherche du Temps Perdu”.

  204. I’m sure there will be a gaffe reel tomorrow – I don’t have 90 minutes to waste on there two crooked clowns.

  205. anon[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite

    Does anyone else find it bizarre that uniformed foreigners such as Mason or Sit Utu Sit take such an interest in US affairs and pretend they have the first clue what happens here?

    It’s not bizarre. It’s typical. Europeans are not nearly as well informed as they tell each other they are. Especially about Murika.

  206. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    There isn’t a single Trump flub you can cite that is in the same ballpark as Biden’s normal speech. Trump is mildly careless. Biden is unfit to be seen. Trump says things and you know what he meant. Biden is incoherent. Trump is verbally brash but practically gentlemanly. Biden puts his hands on women who are signalling that they do not want it.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  207. @Steve Sailer

    Speaking Hunter Thompson (not Biden) from another thread, I still chuckle at his attempt to spread the rumor that Ed Muskie was addicted to Ibogaine, which accounted for his odd performance in New Hampshire: “His staff couldn’t predict from one day to the next if he’d be Abe Lincoln, Capt. Queeg or Bobo the Simple-Minded.” Prescient! Fake news AND dementia.

  208. @Stephen Paul Foster

    One would think that Trump would then roll over Biden like the Wehrmacht tearing through Poland in September 1939. Which he will, which will make him look like the worst bully since Bluto from the Popeye cartoons, which will cost the Orange Man 90 percent of the women voters and give Biden an electoral, popular vote landslide.

    This reminds me of the duel which determines the outcome of a Presidential election in William Tenn’s “The Masculinist Revolt”. (The full story is here https://www.you-books.com/book/W-Tenn/The-Masculinist-Revolt. Reading it would be a better way to spend one’s evening than watching the “debate”.)

  209. SC Rebel says:
    @Servant of Gla'aki

    I had just turned 15 and I felt the same way you did. Man that seems like an eternity.

  210. SC Rebel says:
    @Andy

    He was awful in the second debate, but I believe he won the first. He even got a poll boost after the first one

  211. @I, Libertine

    Don’t forget the “missile gap”: Kennedy lying about senile Ike (hmm) letting the Russkies get a jump on us. Total lie. People forget Kennedy was demanding moar! missiles, Nixon was the peacenik (kinda like Viet Nam later). By 1964 Hollywood was already lying about the “missile gap” being a term used by crazy warmongers like Gen. Turgidson in Dr. Strangelove.

  212. @J.Ross

    True, but so what? The Media ™ has, is and always will portray Biden as a courtly gentleman and Trump as a drooling retard.

  213. Kronos says:
    @Peter Johnson

    Some people are so excited they crapped their pants a few days ahead of time.

    • LOL: Bugg, GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @J.Ross
  214. @res

    I think we’d be much better off if, instead of voting directly for a candidate, each state voted for a pool of electors who all told the state’s voters not which indidual they backed, but what KIND of individual they backed — what were their principle, etc.

    Then we’d have caucus of 500-plus locally elected, obscure individuals, who got together in a smoke-filled room and picked a president themselves, maybe somebody wasn’t even running or interested.

    None of it matters anyway. Whoever wins the debate, or even the election, the real winner will be the Usual Suspects.

  215. @William Badwhite

    Someone should ask the NYT how many tax returns of Michael Bloomberg — mayor of New York City for twelve years, ran for election three times — the newspaper has inspected and reviewed. I suspect the answer will be “the null set.” Bloomberg always treated demands for his tax returns like he would treat requests for financial information about his privately held company: no, but thanks for asking.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  216. All day long, I said I wasn’t going to watch it … but now I’m watching it. I can always turn it off.

  217. Polynikes says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    It was. And a good one for a while. Then the riots tightened up the polls. Tough to ride it out in the basement when you’re basically at a coin flip odds-wise.

  218. Hibernian says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    Lower rates on capital gains compensate for the fact that capital gains are often not real gains, but rather reflections of inflation.

    • Replies: @Guy De Champlagne
  219. Joe Biden is literally Hitler: “I am the Democratic Party!”

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  220. @Hibernian

    That’s a classic kind of argument, where, to compensate for the flaw of something you propose the most generically and far reachingly pro rich solution imaginable.

    Why not just tax based on real gains? And why can’t we tax capital gains higher than normal income based on the number of years an asset was held, in order to compensate for the fact that it was compounding in value tax free year after year while people who actually worked for their living had to pay taxes every year?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  221. @Bill

    Trump does pay taxes when he has income. What in the world?

    • Replies: @Bill
  222. anon[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Btw did you know that deliberately contaminated Chinese heparin killed 81 people in the US in 2008?

    I know that, because one of the fatalities was a neighbor. The real cost of “global free trade” came to a house just down the block. It was very sad. Then it was very angering and frustrating.

  223. @Stan Adams

    L’état, c’est moi.

    Maybe we should refer to Biden as Louis the Juneteenth.

    • Thanks: kaganovitch
    • LOL: Rob
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  224. I’m not overly fond of Trump’s ultra-aggressive style. He’s obviously attempting to show that he’s in command of the situation. Is he pushing too hard? Maybe.

    But is Biden trying hard enough to push back? Maybe not.

    If I were a Democrat, would I want Biden to push back a little harder? It may not be “presidential,” but would I really want him to look like a pussy on prime-time television?

    Biden just said, “Just shush for a minute.” That’s something a Karen would say. A man would say, firmly and directly, “You’ve had your chance to speak. Now let me have mine.”

    Biden thinks Trump is making a fool of himself, and Trump thinks he’s making Biden look weak.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
  225. Corvinus says:

    Who can ever forget this classic debate?

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
  226. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:

    My wife, who’s PRC Chinese, recently asked me why my fellow native-born Americans were getting so worked up about the election. My response was “hell if I know.” But I got to thinking about it more. An easy answer is that Americans are stupid. But is that right? For some, sure. But there’s something more. I think many of them know that whether it’s Joe Biden or Donald Trump, the same neolib/neocon/neocuck system will be in power. This is hardly a “conspiracy theory.” The Federal Reserve openly says it’s independent of “politics” and I think they are telling the truth, at least to some extent. They are “political,” but their politics does not change when the people elect a new government. Deep down, I think a great many voters understand this. But they cling to this electoral farce because it’s more comforting. To watch the debate and see Donald Trump and Joe Biden, two disoriented morons, and to think that that one of them is what you’re fighting against. We tend to think the Left is “winning,” and it is, but only in some areas. On economic matters, they have failed miserably at stopping the concentration of wealth at the top. You focus the ire on Trump and Biden to avoid having to worry about the enemy that really scares you.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    , @RichardTaylor
  227. @Guy De Champlagne

    The loophole (or whatever you wanna call it) is that you can “realize” capital gains through rents and loans that reflect a higher land+building valuation than you’ve been taxed for without actually having to pay any tax on those gains.

    AFAIK, real estate is like every other investment. If you make money, you pay taxes. Trump hasn’t needed to pay huge amounts of taxes in recent years because he has lost so much money in the past. That’s the way it works for *every* type of investment, not just real estate. For Trump, depreciation has been an afterthought compared to the write-offs from his massive early 90’s real estate losses.

    Note that he only got to use these write-offs (like every other businessman) because he started making money again. If his slump had continued, he would have been just another hard luck story like every other busted entrepreneur out there, with nothing but memories of the good old days.

    All depreciation affects is the timing of taxes. Note that Trump’s losses indicate, at the very least, that real estate fortunes can be lost as well as gained. At the peak of the property bubble, Japan’s biggest tycoons were property barons. When the bubble burst, they became net debtors to the tune of billions each.

    The economic cuckness of conservatives is even more extreme than the Israel cuckness and that’s saying something! Sad!

    I don’t understand the idea that being pro-Israel is being cucked. Arabs and Muslims have been enemies of the West for 1300 years. How is supporting a country that Islam considers an enemy cucked unless your definition of cucked involves not wanting Jews killed to the last man, woman and child?

    Maybe you think supporting Biden’s party, which is in favor of arson, looting and murder, via revolving door justice, is cucked. Most GOP voters don’t.

  228. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I believe that Louisiana uses the “long ballot”, i.e. voters vote directly for their presidential electors.

  229. Lagertha says:

    Trump is Ragnar Lothbruk combined with Floki. Biden is like an expendable elder thrown off the cliff.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  230. @Jack D

    “what we are going to have is a fight between two over-the-hill boxers because our society is going thru some kind of Late Soviet period of its own.”

    Kind like Foreman and Frazier fighting when they were both over the hill, instead of either fighting Ali.

    Wikipedia tells me the Rumble in the Jungle was when Ali introduced his “rope a dope” strategy. Anyone think that’s the Dem’s plan: pretend Joe is senile, but he really is sharp as a tack — that’s why the bosses were OK with running him — then he comes out for the debate and wipes the floor with Trump, who’s already planning to hold back lest he seem a bully?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  231. @Johann Ricke

    real estate is like every other investment. If you make money, you pay taxes.

    I explained how that’s not true because getting loans and rents based on appreciation is making money. Unrealized gains also give you power and prestige. I’m sure Jeff Bezos has realized very little of his capital gains, even with my reasonable expansive definition, but it still gives him incredible power and status. Yet it’s never been taxed.

    Another way that’s not true, that applies even in the cases you’re thinking of and is limited to real estate, is that you can sell a property and buy another one without paying taxes (it’s called a like kind exchange) and then keep doing that until you die and then leave everything tax free to your spouse

    • Replies: @Jmaie
    , @Muggles
  232. @Huisache

    The only Huisache I know is a restaurant in New Braunfels.

    • LOL: Not Raul
  233. I turned it off. Was like watching Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthiau in “Grumpy Old Men” yelling at each other, except the script didn’t move on. Debate isn’t going to matter. All down to turnout in key places. Hard to imagine anyone watching for a prolonged period unless they enjoy shouting at the TV in general.

  234. Wilkey says:
    @Stan Adams

    Biden thinks Trump is making a fool of himself, and Trump thinks he’s making Biden look weak.

    This. Trump’s constant interruptions don’t make him look strong. They make him look weak. And he needs to have a few solid, memorized talking points for each subject. He could have mentioned the several thousand extra murders that occurred in 2015-2016 after Obama started feeding the BLM monster, but he didn’t.

    He could have had a quote or two about the crazy shit being taught in the white privilege brainwashing sessions, but he didn’t. That quote alone could have moved a hundred thousand more white votes his way. He could have cited Kamala Harris’s statement that the riots were never going to stop, but he didn’t.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk, ic1000
  235. @Steve Richter

    First, you haven’t seen his tax returns. You’re taking the word of a known liar that is almost certainly lying this time as well. Second, tax returns do not indicate wealth. You’ve been fooled on two levels.

  236. @Seamus

    Lost, actually, if you count the popular vote.

    Only fools and knaves count the “popular vote”.

    Who counted the actual vote in 2017? Why, the President of the Senate.

    Now you know why Joe didn’t run in 2016!

    Oh, and watch the reaction to the vice-presidential totals. Never Pence!

  237. I think Trump blew it on the question of race relations. He transitioned to Law-n-Order too quickly. He should have highlighted First STEP Act, low black unemployment, funding for HBCU’s, Enterprise Zones, amnesties for drug dealing grannies, school choice, and so on.

    If you’re going to pander, at least get some benefit out of it!

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  238. @Wilkey

    Trump doesn’t do “waiting patiently for a great opening” or “memorizing talking points.” He just jabbers and fumes whenever he feels like it, which is almost all the time.

    I’m 43 years old. We’ve had one articulate Republican POTUS in my lifetime. If we ever have another one before I die, I’ll be shocked. In fact, the shock might be enough to kill me.

  239. Trump is a doofus.

    Even when he is hitting on good points, he simply can’t focus on clearly and cogently making the key, he absolutely must wander off and blab about random stuff … and himself.

    And then the interruptions. Show some discipline–and then clean this bozos fricking clock.

    Sad commentary on America, that
    a) we have a traitorous “elite” that is been avidly working to destroy this nation
    and
    b) Trump’s the nationalist champion we have to push back.

    • Agree: Mike_from_SGV, Mr. Anon
  240. George says:
    @Bruno

    Hillary collapsed in the street. Either because of bad judgement regulating her fluid intake or an undisclosed severe disorder.

    Compare the current Biden with the late 2016 Biden chatting with Leno. Are you going to give the current Biden the nuclear ‘football’?

    Joe Biden Does a Burnout In His Corvette Stingray – Jay Leno’s Garage”

    • Replies: @bomag
  241. @James O'Meara

    Kennedy was lying, but Eisenhower wasn’t senile, he actually wanted Kennedy briefed on the true state of US vs. Soviet numbers but Kennedy didn’t want to know because it too good a campaign tactic to give up. Actually the General Turgidson character played by George C. Scott in Dr. Strangelove says to the president that ” Hell, we have a five to one missile superiority as it is, we could easily assign three missiles to every target and still have a very effective reserve force for any other contingency ” .

    Kubrick knew the US had the advantage over Russia, not the other way around, you might be thinking of other movies made in Hollywood at the same time, Fail-Safe and Seven Days in May. Later Turgidson refers to a “mine shaft gap” but that was at the end of the movie when things got over the top.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  242. Jack d says:
    @Bill

    So he’s a class enemy. Mao would agree.

    Trump pays lots of taxes, but not more than he legally owes. What fool would pay more taxes than he actually owes?

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @Guy De Champlagne
  243. botazefa says:
    @Wilkey

    This. Trump’s constant interruptions don’t make him look strong. They make him look weak.

    Just watched about 45 minutes and Trump is destroying Biden in the debate.

    The interruptions are strong. Biden looks very weak.

    I guess we disagree.

    Do you think Biden is winning the debate?

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
  244. @Paul Mendez

    He’s actually being quite smart by operating within the Overton Window where it is. He isn’t trying to change the para-diggum in a way that maybe 2% of the population would understand. He’s playing good politics right now and it will work for him.

  245. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha

    Trump is the greatest president in my lifetime!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
  246. Bugg says:

    Where have you gone, Joe Rogan, a nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you, instead of this asshole Chris Wallace.

  247. Anon7 says:

    So, does anyone think that Joe Biden looks like he is suffering from dementia?

    • Replies: @notsaying
  248. Hibernian says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    Why not just tax based on real gains?

    This has been a conservative proposal going way back. Unfortunately it hasn’t been enacted. It does require a price index for the adjustment. We have the CPI which, like anything else, isn’t pefect. The left tends to advocate just doing away with a separate rate for capital gains.

  249. In the words of my wife, ‘they’re all idiots.’

    Sadly, Trump interrupted way too much — and Biden didn’t disgrace himself.

    Not good.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  250. @Jack D

    I disagree with the “joke” comment. Of course it was a joke, but that misses the point.

    The point is that “find” and “hack” are entirely different actions. Or perhaps the point is that Hillary’s servers were in FBI custody and *offline* (and were known to be so) so hacking wasn’t even possible.

  251. Anon[385] • Disclaimer says:

    Debate was not controlled well. The interruptions by each candidate were too much.

    They ought to cut the mic off to one candidate while the other candidate is answering the moderators question.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  252. @Seamus

    ‘Lost, actually, if you count the popular vote.’

    That’s like saying the visiting team lost, actually, if you count total yardage.

    The election isn’t decided by the popular vote.

  253. Lagertha says:

    First time in my life: I will actually say someone is a pussy: Wallace is a weak-assed pussy!

    Both he and Biden should be roomies at a memory care facility, soon. I can’t believe I am stuck living in this country with these asinine Democrats insulting half the American people, every single day!!!!!! – I just hate them with every part of my body. I despise Democrats and the people who vote for them…they are so stupid and so naive. And, just craven, evil.

    • Agree: Bugg
    • LOL: RichardTaylor
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  254. @AnotherDad

    Trump aimed his performance at the low-information, low-IQ, working-class voter. He went after the truck driver sitting in a bar drinking beer with his buddies. He tried to come across as an alpha male, tried to show his vigor. (If nothing else, he looked and acted a lot younger than his age. No one can accuse him of behaving like a doddering old man.) He was as feisty as ever.

    And he was completely unapologetic. “Never apologize for anything; your enemies will take it as a sign of weakness.”

    This entire debate was The Donald Trump Show. Whether you liked it or not – and I’m fairly ambivalent myself – Trump was the man in the driver’s seat. At times, he swerved all over the road, even crossing the median into the opposite lanes. But he was the one setting the (erratic) course.

    Biden was just along for the ride. He was on the defensive the entire time. And he didn’t fight back. He also stammered quite a bit toward the end.

    One amusing fact: Biden rarely, if ever, mentioned Obama’s name tonight. “I did this; I did that.”

    Trump knew going in that the media wouldn’t approve of anything he said or did tonight. He figured that he might as well go for broke and flash a huge middle finger at the media and the entire political establishment. He didn’t “lose control”; it was a calculated strategy. Was it the correct one? Hard to say, but I suspect that, in his own mind, he accomplished what he set out to do.

    He’ll tone it down next time, to be sure.

    • Agree: Abe, jim jones
    • Replies: @Jmaie
  255. L. Guapo says:

    Clear DJT victory despite the corrupt moderator.

  256. Polynikes says:
    @AnotherDad

    He’s at his best as a counter puncher trying to sow division on the other side. He wastes his few good talking point moments. Trump’s smart to muddy it up. But he won’t increase his turnout.

    • Replies: @Jmaie
  257. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    Catholic too is all just a big distraction by our Jooish puppet masters

    The guy with 90% of the marbles looks at the angry guy with only 4% of the marbles and points him to the other guy with 6% and yells, “Don’t be mad at me. I’m also a victim like you. That other guy has 50% more marbles than you do – attack HIM!”

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong
    • Replies: @Jack D
  258. Lagertha says:
    @Peter Johnson

    NO. the lock downs of HS football players swings hundreds of thousands of voters to Trump. Trump forced the dumb-ass conferences in the Midwest (this week) and North to join the SEC, Texas..the 3 conferences who knew covid is bullshit.

    And, threatening all the male-mostly sports like wrestling, rugby, etc., with lock-downs, is a loser. All those 18 year-olds are gonna vote for Trump – because adults ruined their senior years (last spring, too). Adults ruined their lives – and they will never forgive them, especially guys.

  259. I followed a Twitter account of the debate. Trump is an undisciplined mess, and Biden is not senile. Biden will win the popular vote 54-46, and well over 270 EVs.

    • Replies: @Paul Mendez
    , @Paul Mendez
  260. Bill says:
    @Ben tillman

    Infantile evasion. WTF?

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
  261. @J.Ross

    I remember it well. The way he slapped down those who ridiculed Stockdale was brilliant.

  262. Bill says:
    @Jack d

    Some of us can imagine non-corrupt people.

  263. L. Guapo says:

    I wonder what cocktail of chemicals they pumped into old Joey to dilate them pupils so much…

  264. MBlanc46 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Your last sentence is the only one that matters, Buzz. They’re past masters at the art of vote fraud, and they’ll be pulling out all the stops.

  265. @Reg Cæsar

    Who are Arun Bhumitra, Nachhattar Chandi, Harmeet Dhillon, Truong Si, and Papa Doug Manchester?

    I don’t know about those others, but Harmeet Dhillon is an attorney from San Jose (I think she once ran for the City Council). In any event, she’s James Damore’s attorney, and makes frequent appearances on the Tucker Carlson show. She’s good people.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  266. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:

    If I were advising Trump’s crew, I’d say that Trump should start “nice,” and then lean in. Crank up Biden’s blood pressure, and he’ll go haywire. Get in there with a lot of energy, focus, keep switching gears on him–and lean into Hunter.

    Wow! I said it here, and President Trump does it there!

    Nice work. Very good start to the debates. One huge point for Trump was when Biden began ramping himself up for his, “my son was in the military and he’s not a loser…” and Trump just shut it down before Biden could get going with “you mean the one who accepted $3.5 million for some guy’s wife?” Also, when he demanded Biden name a police union that supported him. Cue the crickets.

    Well played, sir.

    Towards the end, Biden was clearly exhausted, trying not to blow his stack was clearly draining him. By the end, he looked ashen, and very very tired. Trump looked like he could dance for another two hours. Maybe Biden should play more golf.

    Trump was a Boss as usual, and didn’t let us down.

    Again, great first round for Trump. More to come!

  267. @James O'Meara

    Oh, yes! The missile gap. A crock, but, then as now, Democrats got a pass from the MSM.

  268. MBlanc46 says:
    @Prester John

    If Perot hadn’t gotten spooked and interrupted his campaign, Bush might have been re-elected with Clinton finishing third.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  269. Bill says:
    @Hibernian

    One among many absurd tax subsidies for real estate in the US.

  270. @Unladen Swallow

    Oh no, I wasn’t saying Ike was senile, just that that was what JFK was insinuating. Remember, even in his “famous” inaugural address, he mention the “the torch” being “passed to a new generation, born in this century”, a hit at Ike, born 1895, sitting right next to him. Classy guy.

    Fun Fact: due to his death, JFK seems eternally young; Reagan was the oldest man (then) to become president. Reagan was one of those “born in this century” who was younger than Kennedy would have been in 1980. Yet JFK still symbolized “young” and Reagan “old”.

    Yes, you’re right, Buck knows the score. But I was just suggesting that “missile gap” had become a meme; hence Buck immediately suggests a “mineshaft gap.”

    Apart from being too soon after the assassination, why does Pres. Malcolm Muffley evoke Stevenson not JKK? Even a liberal like Kubrick is still buying into the JFK smear about Stevenson being weak and ineffectual.

  271. @Colin Wright

    Biden actually was pretty awful, you just didn’t notice because of Trump’s constant belligerent interruptions. Trump needs a new debate coach. Maybe he doesn’t want to win and just wants to “get his word in?”

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  272. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johann Ricke

    AFAIK, real estate is like every other investment. If you make money, you pay taxes.

    Real estate is a bit different from other investments. The scam with real estate is that it’s really an investment in the land value, which is the location value, not whatever building is sitting on the land. But then you can depreciate the building or structure on the property and pay little or nothing in tax while the underlying land value remains high or increases in value.

    • Agree: Polynikes
    • Replies: @dvorak
    , @Clyde
    , @Corn
  273. J.Ross says:
    @Kronos

    This is one of those things that we will never have a way of verifying and which is carried along by meanspiritedness. Nadler is a deeply disgusting person: moral people should hate his political record for good reason, and not because he’s an old man.
    I recently heard Hugh Hewitt talking to someone, and the opening was downright genial. The other guy sounded like a kid. Gradually I realized that the guy he was talking to, with perfect courtesy and warmth, was CNN’s pedo-faced subversive fraud Brian Stelter. But the interview was fantastic and saw many clean hits landed because Hewitt took the high road.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  274. J.Ross says:
    @Bill

    That doesn’t make amy sense because that class is the only one allowed into high politics and so our only hope is a turncoat like Trump.

  275. @Mike_from_SGV

    Put your money where your mouth is:

    http://www.PredictIt.com

    After the election has been decided, show us all how much you won.

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
  276. Mr. Anon says:
    @Wilkey

    Trump is a logorrheic moron. I guess it shouldn’t surprise anybody that Mr. Gold Toilet doesn’t get the concept that sometimes less is more.

    I didn’t watch the debate. I figured that a debate between Trump and Biden would sound like two old blowhards bullsh**ting in a bar.

  277. @Mike_from_SGV

    In fact, I have made a note of your handle and promise to mercilessly stalk and harass you on iSteve for the rest of time if you don’t bet real money on the election and post the results.

    • Thanks: duncsbaby
  278. Biden did not come across as senile, but he did not come across as strong or charismatic, either.

    Trump: “In 47 months, we’ve done more than you’ve done in 47 years.”

    Biden: [crickets]

    Biden could have reacted – should have, in my opinion – much more strongly to Trump’s attacks on his son. Trump trashed Hunter as a criminal, a moocher, a worthless bum. All Biden could do was keep shrieking “That’s not true! Not true! Not true!” At one point, he stammered, “Well, he had a drug problem.”

    Biden’s tepid response to Trump’s outrageous remarks was not quite as damaging as Dukakis’ apathetic reaction to the rape question in 1988, but it didn’t help his cause, especially with women. Females are turned off by aggressiveness, but they’re also turned off by weakness. Subconsciously, a woman starts to wonder about a man who can’t respond effectively to an attack on his progeny. “If he can’t defend his family, then how can he defend mine?”

    Biden is still capable of regurgitating pre-scripted canned responses, but he cannot improvise a clever zinger to save his life.

  279. Thomas says:

    “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by!” Based!

    • Thanks: Abe
  280. syonredux says:

    So, I guess that a vote for Trump is vote for Hitler…..

    The Jewish Democratic Council of America (JDCA) is the voice of Jewish Democrats and socially progressive, pro-Israel and Jewish values.

    Trump again refused to condemn white nationalism tonight.

    We can’t risk four more years of Donald Trump.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @syonredux
    , @Thomas
  281. @Anon

    They ought to cut the mic off to one candidate while the other candidate is answering the moderators question.

    That’s a good idea. Even cut it off at the end of the 2 minute answer period.

    The thing is, the rules to these “debates” are agreed upon via negotiations involving both candidates’ campaigns. There probably is no way either of them would agree to cutting microphones. Also, this is not a debate, it is a teevee show. Overlapping dialogue makes any show more exciting and keeps the eyeballs glued to the screen and the ears listening. It is more dramatic.

    Some others may disagree, but I think Trump overdid his tactic of interrupting Biden. It looked terrible, and it did not throw the Democrat off. Joe’s composure and his memory for prepared statements was uncanny (for him.) What did the handlers give that guy? SuperBeets? Ginkgo Biloba? A transfusion of the blood of sacrificed children?

  282. Cato says:
    @Wilkey

    Trump is most definitely not a racist, so he is not going to push against BLM talking points. But in the give and take of the debate: Biden came out swinging, he even called Trump a liar, and Trump immediately began to hammer back hard, at one point pointing out that Biden couldn’t even remember the college he had attended and that his grades there were not in bragging range. Biden came out the weakling. No doubt about it. No matter what the MSM try to claim.

    But, what I really want to say: Case-Western! Such a school! Does Cleveland proud!

  283. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    Interesting glimpse into Matty’s mind…..

    Matty Yglesias:

    This kind of reminds me of the first time my shikse wife had dinner with my family and found it a little challenging.

    shiksa (n.)
    “gentile girl,” in Jewish culture, dismissive or disparaging, 1892, from Yiddish shikse, from Hebrew siqsa, from sheqes “a detested thing” + fem. suffix -a.

    https://www.etymonline.com/word/shiksa

    • Replies: @anon
    , @black sea
  284. @Buzz Mohawk

    Agreed. Joe was stumbling at the beginning and getting tripped up/stuttering, but the constant interrupting from Trump made him somehow regain some lucidity. Maybe reminded him of his days confronting Corn Pop and so sparked some life into him.

    • Replies: @bomag
  285. @S. Anonyia

    ‘…Biden actually was pretty awful, you just didn’t notice because of Trump’s constant belligerent interruptions…’

    Indeed. On the few occasions when Trump actually shut up long enough to let Biden speak for twenty consecutive seconds, he seemed to be losing his train of thought.

    Trump should have just politely taken notes and let Biden collapse into incoherence. Then come in afterwards and mopped up.

    As it is, this is awful. One of them is sure to win.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  286. @Bill

    You’re just making shit up. You have no information about whether Trump pays taxes. But even the liars you’re listening say you’re wrong. They say he does pay taxes when has income.

    • Replies: @Bill
  287. Lagertha says:

    I did not realize, that you, Steve, are just part of the DS that you purport to malign all along! You are worse than that…because you don’t care about anything…you just don’t care what happens to peoples’ lives next year, and so on. I am so naive. I regret that I ever posted here. hahhahaa, I’ll wind up in some re-education prison by posting here.

    this is why I did not post for months. I felt that you are here, to actually, expose and silence dissenters. I think I am correct, once again. I do feel really stupid that I was so naive, for so long. You are just all in with the cabal – they pay you.

    • LOL: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  288. @Stan Adams

    Stan Adams wrote:

    Biden could have reacted – should have, in my opinion – much more strongly to Trump’s attacks on his son.

    Biden’s lying wasn’t strong enough for you?

    What else could Biden have done?

    Hunter did get millions from foreign governments and foreign oligarchs, clearly due not to any skills or abilities Hunter has but simply as a matter of influence peddling with the help of Daddy Joe.

    How else could Biden have dealt with this?

    After all, the MSM will cover for his lies.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    , @Redman
  289. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    The Jewish Democratic Council of America (JDCA) is the voice of Jewish Democrats and socially progressive, pro-Israel and Jewish values.

    Trump again refused to condemn white nationalism tonight.

    We can’t risk four more years of Donald Trump.

    Hey, on the positive side, Trump didn’t condemn Jewish nationalism………So maybe it’s a glass half full…..

  290. Thomas says:

    Joe got notably less energetic about 30-40 minutes in, I assume after whatever they have him on started to wear off. I give him credit as an experience politician and public speaker for being able to play rope-a-dope and fall back onto his well-rehearsed stump speeches and talking points, but he really should have that routine down after 47 years.

    Trump offered no surprises. He was his predictable, brutal, counter-punching self, and he has no equals at what he does. He would’ve been a lot sharper with maybe just a couple of sharper, prepared lines on things like Critical Race Theory or punching back on Biden’s “fine people” blood libel but I guess that’s just part and parcel of his eschewing traditional prep for his usual hustle-and-flow. Trump really could’ve smashed Biden but good when he fell back on his shopworn “Irish Catholics” shtick from like 60 years ago if he’d dropped something like “Irish Catholics are being taught they’re white supremacists now in Critical Race Theory programs Joe that your party supports.” Something like that.

    The question though is: will this move the election in any direction at all? Biden was dominated but he wasn’t the dribbling mummy that Trump’s campaign had set expectations for. Trump confirmed he’s the same guy he was in 2016 (and 2017, 2018, and 2019), but this didn’t seem quite as enjoyable as watching him abuse Hillary Clinton, whom most Americans understood had spent a quarter century earning a spanking. I don’t know if this will convince anyone in any direction helpful to either candidate. Then again, I honestly have no idea what’s really going on with the election. The polls say things that mostly haven’t been good for Trump. But they weren’t good in 2016 either. I have the sense that media bias, tech censorship and leftist insanity going into hyperdrive this year, along with COVID and BLM, have all scrambled the social and cultural signaling and created so much noise that it’s hard to reliabily tell what the actual state of the race is.

  291. Anonymous[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    I know.

    I almost gagged when he denounced Biden for calling black criminals “super predators” and proudly spoke about “all of the people (blacks)” he had released from prison. Trump isn’t wedded to any ideological position, he just bellows out loud what he thinks will get him votes. HBDers (i.e.Sailer) are a clown for supporting this guy – they are excited because he nominated a woman with seven kids (two of them Haitians) to the SC to uphold Roe v Wade. What a joke.

  292. Thomas says:
    @syonredux

    This shtick isn’t going to work for them this time the way they think it will (as in, “fine people” redux). Too many people watching Trump’s actual words and the colloquy with Wallace in real time to buy the media spin over the real words. The echoes won’t have as much space to drown out the voice.

  293. Anon[254] • Disclaimer says:

    This country faces a serious threat from the proto-totalitarian racialized Left, we need a serious conservative leader who can warn and explain the issues… and what we have is Trump, talking about Hunter Biden, wives of Russians and payoffs, making absurd statements, talking over Biden, etc etc. Such a pathetic idiot. Hello, Woke Federal Government 2021.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  294. @Jack d

    I don’t think its reasonable to expect Trump to voluntarily pay more taxes. It is reasonable to expect him to understand that the current system is wrong, admit so publicly, and to work to reform it. Trump’s one legislative accomplishment was tax reform and all it did was make things worse because he’s a fake populist.

  295. @PhysicistDave

    I am talking about his demeanor. He came across as a wuss.

    (I’m glad he did. I do want him to lose, you know.)

    If I am running for president and someone attacks my son, I say, “Excuse me, but you have just crossed the line, and I am not going to stand for it. You can attack me all you want; that’s fine. But don’t drag my son into this. That’s a low blow. This election is not about my son; it’s not about you or me. It’s about the American people. Let’s talk about the issues.”

    I don’t just stand there and stammer, “That’s not true! That’s not true! It’s not my fault my kid has a drug problem!”

    You want a leader to stand up and say, “This is what the rules are. This is how the game is going to be played. And I am not going to allow you to trash my son’s reputation on national television.”

    Biden is not a leader. And he proved it (as if we needed any further proof) tonight.

    Is Trump a leader? Well, he’s not George Washington, to put it mildly. But he was in charge of the event tonight. He took command at the very beginning and seized control of the proceedings, and he never relinquished it.

    And Biden never laid a hand on Trump. He let Chris Wallace do his fighting for him. (As so many of us have noted so many times before, his strategy is to do nothing and coast to victory.)

    Someone else mentioned that Biden looked winded at the end, while Trump seemed like he was just getting warmed up. I agree.

    We’re talking about intangibles here. Even as the conscious mind is thinking, “Gee, Trump was totally out of control,” the unconscious mind is thinking, “Yeah, but Biden looked tired and worn out.”

  296. t says:

    • LOL: Chrisnonymous, Kronos
  297. Anonymous[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @James O'Meara

    You are an idiot. Reagan was born in 1911. Kennedy in 1917.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  298. Lagertha says:

    Trump is the greatest president in my lifetime!!!!! Maybe, the greatest president since Washington. You must all remember, after 1776, we were free to determine our banking system….and, Andrew Jackson had to butt in because he saw the threat from Europe – Louisiana Purchase.

    • LOL: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Lagertha
  299. Trump wins on points, its not a blowout. Biden survived. I will wait 3 days before I really analyze it, because Trump’s best memes take about 3 days to percolate.

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  300. Some others may disagree, but I think Trump overdid his tactic of interrupting Biden. It looked terrible, and it did not throw the Democrat off. Joe’s composure and his memory for prepared statements was uncanny.

    Spot on Buzz.

    Interrupting is fine–in moderation–where the guy is talking shit about you, it shows you’re alpha and won’t take crap from some pipsqueak. Basically you call bullshit on the guy and set the record straight. You can justify/finish with “Spew your usual nonsense you like about what you claim you would do. But i’ll set the record straight on our program, what we’ve accomplished.”

    But the key word is “moderation” or “discipline”. Trump just didn’t have the discipline to rein himself in and use interruption strategically.

    And the result works in favor of Biden. Biden’s openly a mediocrity and showing clear signs of mental decline. The gist of the case the Democrats are pitching to independents/swing voters is “at least you’ll be rid of Trump”. Essentially a “return to normalcy” campaign.

    Trump’s over-interruption actually helped them with making that case, rather than the Biden’s a useless twit case. And distracted from the critical points he was making about the getting the economy going vs. Democratic lockdowns and most of all the Democratic riots and law+order.

    • Disagree: Ron Mexico
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Redman
  301. Bill says:
    @Ben tillman

    You’ve graduated from infantile evasion to infantile evasion combined with lying, so congratulations on that. I have no idea what Trump’s taxes look like and never said that I did.

    “He does pay taxes when he has income” doesn’t address the point about depreciation, though, does it? It’s just a silly talking point you’re mindlessly spouting.

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @Ben tillman
    , @carol
  302. @Stan Adams

    I thought it was very considerate and genteel of the President to refrain from mentioning how Hunter Biden reacted to his brother’s death by fcuking Beau’s widow.

    • LOL: Redman
  303. @Stan Adams

    And who else is turned off by weakness? Definitely the 5% more Black voters and 5% more Hispanic voters that Trump is signalling with his confidence.

    • LOL: Chrisnonymous
  304. anon[358] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Interesting glimpse into Matty’s mind…..

    Autistics generally aren’t very good at social calibration. Matty regularly demonstrates this.

    In some parts of the middle west, Shiksa means “practice girl”; the goyish girl a nize Jewish boy shacks up with for a while…then dumps to marry the nize Jewish girl. But that could just be a regionalism Matty knows nothing about.

  305. Lagertha says:

    don’t trust anyone, ever. Many people are evil and self-serving. Psychopaths are 2% of our planet’s humanity. Educate yourself: Hare’s Checklist.

  306. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:

    The President – 10.
    Schlepper Joe – 0

    How much medical magic pumped into Schlepper?

    Hunter – 25 years.

  307. @SimpleSong

    We need a third party candidate to liven things up.

  308. @Lagertha

    Lagertha wrote:

    First time in my life: I will actually say someone is a pussy: Wallace is a weak-assed pussy!

    No, he is just honestly stupid.

    He really does not know that “white supremacists” have played no significant role in the events of the last six months. I’ve debated and attacked white supremacists here in this very forum. I have condemned them.

    But they’re just irrelevant.

    And Chris boy seems to think that “critical race theory” is just “racial sensitivity.”

    And Chrissy asked Trump if Trump accepted “climate science,” as if ongoing research in any scientific field has settled results.

    I’ve been following work in climate science for over fifty years. Yes, the globe has warmed over the last two centuries, largely due to coming out of the Little Ice Age. Yes, anthropogenic CO2 has contributed to that warming during the last century.

    But how much of the increase in global temperature during the last century was due to human actions? What will be the course of global temperatures during this century? What role is played by naturally occurring climate fluctuations (such as the Ice Ages)? And, crucially, how doe we make intelligent trade-offs between economic costs and CO2 reductions?

    All very challenging and difficult — and still unsettled — research questions.

    I’ve debated real honest-to-god climate denialists in various forums over the years. Trump is not one of them.

    Chris Wallace has an AB from Hahvahd.

    One more piece of evidence for my contention that the major universities are serious impediments to obtaining an education. (And, yes, I really do have a PhD in physics from Stanford, so I know the scam from the inside. And, yes, Stanford is one of the schools that should be shut down, razed to the ground, and then the area sown with salt.)

    Adam Smith once said, “There is a great deal of ruin in a nation.” But I wonder how much more of this our nation can survive: No matter who wins, we will be left not just with CNN and MSNBC but also with all the Chris Wallaces spread throughout all the other dominant institutions of our society — the FBI and other organs of the Deep State, the financial world, the courts, the universities, etc. — not just in journalism.

    I hope and pray Biden loses, but this country will still be in a very deep hole.

  309. Bill says:
    @Jack D

    After all, the Catholic Church has been known for its friendly approach to Jews for hundreds if not thousands of years

    Sure, but Pius XII, who saved hundreds of thousands of Jews, is “known” as Hitler’s Pope. Jews are “known” for their gratitude and high fidelity memory.

  310. @Thomas

    Right. Trump had an opportunity to define critical race theory and explain why it is so insidious, but he didn’t. Also, as someone who’s (I guess) Irish Catholic, Biden’s line about his heritage was pretty pathetic and Trump missed an opportunity by not responding to that. Should have discussed his own mother being a Scottish immigrant and growing up in a Gaelic speaking village in the Outer Hebrides. Biden (like me) probably isn’t totally Irish Catholic anyway, just identifies with it because whichever grandparents have that heritage will emphasize it to the expense of their other ancestry.

    • Agree: Redman
  311. @Buzz Mohawk

    Biden referred to the President as a clown and told him to shut up, man. Biden rarely answered questions. He was trying to be folksy when speaking directly to the “people” but he has such an odd, creepy appearance now, I can’t believe that people hear him as much as be distracted by him. He looked worn down. He allowed Trump to muscle him on many exchanges. Weak.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
  312. dvorak says:
    @Anonymous

    But then you can depreciate the building or structure on the property and pay little or nothing in tax while the underlying land value remains high or increases in value.

    And the asking price increases in proportion to this tax benefit, making real estate comparable with other investments. Government loan programs also cause the asking price to increase in proportion to their huge benefits (decades-long loans with tiny down payments).

  313. Cato says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Cutting off the mic at the end of two minutes might be a good idea. But would you do it to the President of the United States? I wouldn’t even do it to my HOA president!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  314. @Buzz Mohawk

    And don’t forget. Carter was the only president in US history to not wage war.

    That makes him Satan.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  315. I thought the whole thing went quite well, for both men. I felt happy to be an American tonight.

  316. Bill says:
    @Bill

    I see I embraced the hypothetical that Trump doesn’t pay taxes above, so I apologize for calling you a liar, though I am clearly not just making shit up.

  317. @Corvinus

    You’re always in character, Crow. Missed your cawwing.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  318. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    My own take is that Trump won. On a fact basis, on a demeanor basis. On a winning voters basis.

    This is confirmed in the democrat reaction. Republicans were mostly celebratory. Democrats reacted mostly with “woe is us” “how did we get here” “cancel the upcoming debates”. That much is a giveaway.

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
  319. bomag says:
    @George

    The Biden campaign should run such old clips as campaign material: he comes across as a likable, normal guy. Recent clips have him equaling a zombie.

  320. I think the U.S. and everyone in it, is in deep trouble.

    Trump has devolved into a charmless, charismaless bully. The fact that he is correct (factually, politically, and otherwise) in most of his claims is almost beside the point. The difference between Trump and Alex Jones tonight was very small….and even alex jones most supportive fans don’t want him as president.

    Biden is a dead man walking. Don’t know if he has dementia, etc. but its clear his is dieing of old age. Can’t belive he agreed to this. Can’t believe no one in the Democrat establishment saw this. Unlike a debate, there are no rules in real life, no softball questions, no prewritten answers from your staff.

    I think that whoever is president, China, Russia, Iran, and possibly Turkey will challenge the U.S openly, both with economic actions, and very likely military ones. I think a president Trump will be crippled and distracted by more blm/antifa nonesence, vote scamming, and a hostile congress that will likely impeach him withing the first month of his new term, especially if the dems take the senate.

    I think a president biden will behave like candidate biden; hiding in the white house, letting his staff “run” things…..run them the same way Portland, NYC, chicago and the like are run. Focusing on racial grieveances and score settling, as the the lack of a unifying Chief exective will let the coalition of the fringes run self destructively wild, egged on by social and traditional media.

    My specific guesses on international actions and outcomes are….

    Turkey intervenes in armenia;azeri war, sundering nato

    Russian invades Belarus, for the same reason they invaded ukraine.

    Iran, with CHina’s support, tries to turn the Persian Gulf into the Iranian gulf, using mostily chinese missles, money, political support, and technology.

    China begins openly “colonizing” africa, both on the ground and in the ocean, by creating Naval and air bases all around the perimeter of the Indian ocean.

    China makes a move on the U.S. dollar, with disastrous results for the U.S., including the beginning of the movement of the center of world finance to Shanghai.

    Domestically, i think that whoever wins….

    -social chaos will continue.
    -economic failure will intensify, with no ability to stop it
    -The far left will gain more power and support.
    -several states will begin serious disscussions about leaving the US
    -everything will get worse for most people
    -rich people will built fortified compounds/urban areas (a la brazil) or move off shore.\
    -the only noteworthy product gernerated will be inane media content.

    Good luck guys, you’ll need it.

    • Agree: BB753
  321. Biden’s advantage is that he believes in nothing except votes. Thus he can say anything as long as it sounds good. “Millions of high paying jobs in green industries…..”

  322. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The way I know that it was not terrible was that the first thing that Nora O’Donnell (CBS host who is a Democrat shill) said after the debate was over was something like “well if Trump is going to behave that way I don’t think there should be any more debates.” If they thought that this was hurting Trump they would be begging for more debates.

    Note BTW that debates are good for ratings so she should want more but she hates Trump more than she loves her employer.

    Joe’s composure and his memory for prepared statements was uncanny (for him.)

    People here had set the bar very low – if he didn’t come out and pee his pants he would have overperformed compared to the Alzheimer’s patient that he was pegged to be here. Except he never was that to begin with.

  323. I emailed this to a friend at midnight:

    I didn’t watch this nonsense. All the so-called Presidential debates, from the first where Nixon and Kennedy faced off up through Trump versus Clinton have been travesties; two rhetorically inept candidates blathering about non-issues, demonstrating a profound ignorance of essential matters, and displaying the manners and decency of ill-behaved children.

    Given the two men in this bit of televised absurdity:
    (1) Trump, who has demonstrated a total inability to focus, to stay on topic, to argue rationally, or even to speak grammatically, using an adult vocabulary;
    (2) Biden, who is clearly suffering from some stage of senile mental decline or dementia;
    I was expecting that tonight’s spectacle would plumb new depths of excruciatingly embarrassing behavior.

    I could barely stand watching the edited out-takes on the evening news. The commentary I heard, suggested that things were even worse than I had envisioned.

    We should all be embarrassed to be citizens of a banana republic that could have two such specimens competing for the Presidency.

    Both Trump and Biden screwed the pooch. I heard both prog and alt-right observers admit this.

    One commentator suggested that the main effect of this spectacle on uncommitted voters will be to have them refrain from voting out of disgust.

    I’m not sure whether this IMHO likely outcome will favor Trump or Biden.

    I for one would welcome a military coup at this point.

    • Agree: Lot
  324. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie

    The Jew says, “let’s you and him fight” – how original. The only thing better would be to illustrate your example with a picture of the Happy Merchant.

    • Troll: polistra, neutral, Mr McKenna
  325. @PhysicistDave

    And, crucially, how doe we make intelligent trade-offs between economic costs and CO2 reductions?

    We don’t. That ship has sailed. Other than a few hopeful achievements in storage and small-scale nuclear, analysis and compromise are dead letters.

  326. MEH 0910 says:
    @James O'Meara

    Apart from being too soon after the assassination, why does Pres. Malcolm Muffley evoke Stevenson not JKK? Even a liberal like Kubrick is still buying into the JFK smear about Stevenson being weak and ineffectual.

    Merkin Muffley.

    https://great-characters.fandom.com/wiki/President_Merkin_Muffley

    He’s given his name since a merkin is a pubic wig, and “muff” is a slang term for a woman’s private parts. So it makes sense that he would be pretty timid at times.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  327. Anonymous[397] • Disclaimer says:

    We can’t win because Ellis Islanders like this guy, and even Steve Sailer, can’t get over their jealousy and feelings of insecurity toward the White Protestant stock that created and form the core of this country.

    Get a load of this guy:

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Hibernian
  328. I never did find out what a ‘K’ shaped recovery would be.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  329. J.Ross says:
    @Stan Adams

    He was kicked out of a Manhattan strip club for smoking crack. That’s not a drug problem, it’s a Tom Wolfe tableau.

  330. black sea says:
    @syonredux

    I wonder if she finds sharing a bed with Yglesias even more challenging.

  331. anon[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    I don’t know who won the debate, but I’ll say I remember in 2016 that Trump couldn’t take criticism directed at him at all in the GOP debates. It was very off putting.

    But now, even if he might interrupt too much, he never really made overd0ne (childish) sarcastic faces when Biden was ragging on him etc. I think it dispelled to some degree the still widespread view that Trump is a complete undisciplined child. It is very hard to hear people ragging on you and take it somewhat even-temperedly ………and Trump looks like he’s learned to do it a lot better.

  332. Anonymous[504] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I don’t think of him as a merchant now… He’s actually excited about simping for Chris Wallace. Original; thanks

  333. notsaying says:
    @Anon7

    Joe seemed fine. I have to admit his gaffes make me uneasy. I wish the Democrats had picked someone else. But the person we have to worry about is Rudy Giuliani.

    • Replies: @anon
  334. @MEH 0910

    Damn! I must have been thinking of Malcom MacDowell.

    Or maybe I’m repressing the memory of that awful Anthony Newley film, starring Joan Collins as Polyester Poontang (no, alas, joke)

  335. @Buzz Mohawk

    Some others may disagree, but I think Trump overdid his tactic of interrupting Biden. It looked terrible, and it did not throw the Democrat off. Joe’s composure and his memory for prepared statements was uncanny (for him.)

    Yes, I was expecting to see Trump easily beat a borderline-senile opponent. As it was, Biden was on good form, whereas Trump appeared petulant and unwilling to answer the questions about his federal income tax.

    Biden has a good chance of winning. If he doesn’t win, it was interesting to learn that the Democrats have a week to work out how many postal ballots they need to forge.

  336. Anonymous[504] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomas

    I think Trump hasn’t “grown in office” because he never thought more than a year ahead and certainly never about what a POTUS is like (despite reportedly having serious interest in it back to the Perot era). He was never a governor or a military commander so that helped him in an unusual Throw-The-Bums-Out year. But people actually like hiring the insiders and their cronies at a better than 51% rate, not only in the sphere of politics. Trump team’s rapid response has the air of “The Bidens are who we thought they were… And we let ’em off the hook. If you wanna crown their ass…”

  337. @Reg Cæsar

    On the contrary, now Biden’s team can fill out her ballot for her.

  338. anon[697] • Disclaimer says:
    @notsaying

    But the person we have to worry about is Rudy Giuliani.

    Why?

    • Replies: @notsaying
  339. Kronos says:
    @J.Ross

    Yeah this Brian Stelter fellow looks like Jared Fogle if he went bald and started going to McDonald’s over Subway again.

  340. @Buzz Mohawk

    Then, of course the Kennedy campaign cheated in Chicago on election day, where the Democrat machine out-waited Republicans for the final vote count and magically came up with enough to win.

    While I am not doubting this, Kennedy would have won even without Illinois.

    • Replies: @polistra
  341. Trump should have saved the interruptions for when he had an important point to make. In many cases, he was just talking over Biden and Wallace for no good reason and he came off as undisciplined and obnoxious. Perhaps he expected to rattle Biden and cause him to melt down, but Biden did better than expected. He managed to keep it together to the end. Nevertheless, he looked rather feeble and low energy and that will be a lingering impression.

    A couple of missed opportunities. When Biden said Trump told people to inject bleach into their arm, Trump said something along the lines of, “I said that sarcastically.” But he never said anything of the sort. The remark he made, which has been twisted out of all recognition, was in reference to using UV light internally, perhaps with fiber optics. When he says, “I said that sarcastically,” he validates the false narrative.

    Similarly, when Wallace and Biden repeated the fine people hoax, Trump didn’t point out that he specifically denounced the nazis and white nationalists. Why didn’t he urge listeners to review the actual transcript?

    Wallace and Biden were pushing climate change as an explanation for the California wildfires, but they don’t explain the connection. Inept forest management seems more believable to me. I wonder what most viewers think.

    I like the fact that Trump actually tries to enact the policies he ran on. Biden talks about all the things he wants to do, but as Trump pointed out, he’s been in Washington for 47 years so why didn’t he do them? Biden talks about all the great jobs his green energy program will generate. That’s the same bill of goods Obama sold us in 2008 that never panned out, yet Biden is shamelessly offering it up again.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @PhysicistDave
    , @Kronos
  342. Teeny-tiny footnote: another sport where a contest can be won by the guy who’s scored fewer points is tennis. Imagine a match won 6-4, 1-6, 6-4, 1-6, 6-4. The winner (three sets to two) has won 20 games, while the loser has won 24 games.

    Tennis’ scoring system is really genius. There’s suspense over each point; over each game; over each set; and finally over the match. And then there are things like deuce games and tie-breakers — layers upon layers of suspense and tension. If a tennis match were simply “the winner of the match is the first guy to win 100 points,” few spectators would care about much until the very end of the match.

    • Agree: utu
  343. @RadicalCenter

    Harris comes out in January 2021 smelling like roses and proceeds to dominate Democrat fundraising for three and half years. She builds a lockstep network of state- and city-level endorsements, and she’ll have even more media bias in her favor than usual.

    That’s the same dynamic that catapulted Geraldine Ferraro to prominence in 1988. It’s the insurmountable advantage the losing Vice Presidential candidate of the previous cycle has. Poor Dukakis, he had no chance at the nomination at all..

  344. syonredux says:

    Responding to questions raised by The New York Times this week that reported the president paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017, and none in 10 of the previous 15 years, Mr Trump said they would release his records “when they were ready.”

    Mr Biden chimed in, “when? inshallah,” using the Arabic word for God willing.

    Isn’t that cultural appropriation?

  345. J.Ross says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    Next time wildfires come up Trump should demand that all the people arrested by the State of California for arson be released since the real bad guy is global warming.

  346. 36 ulster says:
    @Gordo

    He also wore a gray suit which didn’t contrast well with the background, while Kennedy wore a darker outfit–whether blue, charcoal or black, I don’t recall.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Anonymous
  347. @I, Libertine

    Well you wrote Shaw the first time, so we knew what you meant. King had a devastating injury when he was 28. He came back to have a solid career, but he was an All-Star before that. He scored 60 points on Christmas night, 1984, in a nationally televised game on TBS.

  348. @Neoconned

    AOC isn’t married, but Omar’s husband is not only white, but he dumped his white wife to be with her. Look up Beth Jordan Mynett if interested.

  349. @Intelligent Dasein

    Maybe we should refer to Biden as Louis the Juneteenth.

    Outstanding!

  350. Gordo says:
    @I, Libertine

    Also apparently Kennedy relaxed at his hotel with a prostitute, one simply cannot imagine Richard Nixon doing such a thing.

  351. @Harry Baldwin

    Harry Baldwin wrote:

    Wallace and Biden were pushing climate change as an explanation for the California wildfires, but they don’t explain the connection. Inept forest management seems more believable to me. I wonder what most viewers think.

    One of my acquaintances, a fairly liberal local librarian, is friends with a female forest ecologist who specializes in studying the ecological effects of forest fires.

    The ecologist told him pretty much the same thing the President said.

    Ironically and tragically, the ecologist lost her own home to the fires (she is safe, fortunately).

    We have friends who lost their homes when Paradise burned to the ground. This is a catastrophic problem for California.

    We had better start listening to the people who know the science.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  352. Thomas says:

    I have a feeling that one day years from now, when (FBI Director) Christopher Wray is getting introduced at a dinner or a talk of some sort, possibly for the SPLC or the ADL, among the accomplishments that will be mentioned will be his “debunking the ‘Antifa conspiracy theory’ that former President Trump sought to use as a talking point in his failed reelection campaign.”

  353. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:

    Tee Hee Hee!

  354. One aspect that seems not to be noticed much is that the mud-wrestling tonight is a reprise of the 2016 primary debate when Rubio tried to be more of a boor than Trump.

    Love him or hate him, anyone considering voting for Trump already knows that Trump is a loud-mouth and a blowhard. Any attempt by Trump to pretend otherwise would just seem hypocrisy.

    But when Rubio tried it… well, one of Marco’s few redeeming qualities was that he seemed to be a sweet little boy. And then Rubio threw that away, trying to out-Trump the Donald.

    Similarly, Joe Biden never was and never will be an alpha male. When he tries to get tough, he just gets silly: like his occasional comments about taking Trump out behind the gym — I bet I could’ve taken on little Joe when we were both young.

    Lots of people are going to deride the mud-wrestling on both sides tonight. However, no one really has a more negative opinion of Trump than they had before. But Sleepy Joe came across as a little guy trying to make believe he was a tough guy.

    I don’t think that will help him.

    • Agree: Polynikes
  355. Thomas says:

    One of the things that has hurt Trump again and again grievously, and has never stopped hurting him, was not staffing the federal government the way any other administration would have. This is due both to incompetence as well as to not having an established bench of talent. The latter is one of the curses of having been a Washington outsider, though missing several early opportunities to nonetheless develop a bench goes back to incompetence.

    We can see this in Trump’s relationship with the military, still staffed with starred woketards and neocons from the last two administrations. Federal law enforcement under Obama, including and in particular the FBI, got all those shiny new anti-terrorism powers they got under Bush redirected away from Muslims and towards barely-existent “right-wing extremists” and “white supremacists.” Trump never bothered to try to break those rice bowls, probably never even knew he could or should maybe try to fit in breaking them somewhere between “Executive Time” and tee time. As a result, nobody in the FBI has been building a career going after Antifa. Few likely have an incentive to in an election year for a president who has been consistently down in the polls an average of 6-7 points most of the campaign.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  356. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave

    One of my acquaintances, a fairly liberal local librarian, is friends with a female forest ecologist who specializes in studying the ecological effects of forest fires.

    The ecologist told him pretty much the same thing the President said.

    Ironically and tragically, the ecologist lost her own home to the fires (she is safe, fortunately).

    I spent many summers up in Lake Arrowhead as a kid. Recently, I went up there and the density of the forest growth was unbelievable! Adding the bark beetle problem and that area is set to explode. I noticed a lot of the locals complain about it, but nobody is getting off their asses to make things happen. They need some major clearing strategies initiated yesterday. Once a fire gets its legs in that landscape, they ain’t stopping it.

    If aggressive cutting isn’t done there, especially in certain areas, that town will be a tragedy, sooner or later. Right now it’s not a case of “if,” but “when.”

    The forest custodial duties taking place in many areas of the San Bernardino mountains are almost nil.

    And no local outrage! Nobody taking initiative! I can’t believe the fools up there have already forgotten about the last time.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @black sea
  357. @Reg Cæsar

    Biden lost one vote today. She was woman:
    Helen Reddy, ‘I Am Woman’ Singer, Dies at 78

    Nah, voting Democrat is our world’s Horn of Valere – “The Grave is no bar to my call.”

    • Agree: Kronos
    • LOL: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
  358. @PhysicistDave

    Arrogant woke “climate activists” claiming to have “science” on their side are fun to humiliate.

    Simply ask them:

    “How are we going to reduce carbon emissions while we invite literally everyone on Earth to move to its most notorious carbon emitter?”

    You’ll probably have to explain that is precisely what their beloved open borders entails.

    Enjoy their bitter termination of the discussion.
    🙂

    (Too bad Trump’s handlers would never hand him that one.)

  359. Kronos says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    Nevertheless, he looked rather feeble and low energy and that will be a lingering impression.

    I overall agree.

    Biden was on the defensive throughout the debate. That’s often the de facto position of the incumbent president. I think that deflated his already energetically flat base. He does embody the Democratic Party in that regard. Biden seriously lacks any Bernie sparkle.

  360. @kaganovitch

    Yes,”I Am Woman”is wretched garbage. But she also had a song called “Angie Baby,” which was dreadful in its own right.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  361. @Thomas

    We can see this in Trump’s relationship with the military, still staffed with starred woketards and neocons from the last two administrations.

    Presidents don’t get to fire everyone they don’t like. There are rules. Even Obama took 2 terms to clear out his opponents and he wasn’t dogged by accusations of dictatorial tendencies, the threat of an impeachment or a special prosecutor nipping at his heels all the way through. I don’t even like Trump, but I think in this respect, his problems are completely not of his doing. A bureaucracy protected by civil service rules, the media and a vigorous political opposition is not easily rearranged to a president’s liking.

    What I like about Trump is that that he fights. Paul Ryan played by the rules and looked like he was cowering as Biden broke every single rule and won the night. Trump bowled right over the rules like so many tenpins. Biden’s mauling made the media call for a timeout.

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @Thomas
  362. Kronos says:
    @Prester John

    Also, Kennedy’s manager purposely turned up the heat to make Nixon sweat. He also refused makeup before the debate so he looked awful on the TV screen.

    He learned a lot from that debate and adapted.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  363. Biden was on the defensive throughout the debate. That’s often the de facto position of the incumbent president. I think that deflated his already energetically flat base. He does embody the Democratic Party in that regard. Biden seriously lacks any Bernie sparkle

    Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump come across as being about equally energetic, although Sanders is about 5 years older. Both display a vitality and vigor of men a decade (or even two) younger than they are.

    Biden, who is almost 78, comes across as an old man, just as you would expect most 78 year old men to.

    • Replies: @anon
  364. Mr. Anon says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    R.I.P. She had a nice-enough voice. I Am Woman, the song for which she was best known, wasn’t even her best song. Despite her feminist braying, she seemed to have a likeable enough personality.

    Of course, when it comes to Australian songstresses, Reddy will always be far behind Judith Durham and Olivia Newton John.

  365. @James O'Meara

    Reagan was the oldest man (then) to become president. Reagan was one of those “born in this century” who was younger than Kennedy would have been in 1980. Yet JFK still symbolized “young” and Reagan “old”.

    I don’t know what you are trying to say here. Reagan was 6 years older than Kennedy.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
  366. @I, Libertine

    the handsome Kennedy, who prepared all day at his hotel, looked tanned, rested and ready

    Which became Nixon’s slogan in 68, when he didn’t debate.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
  367. Dube says:

    The “debate:” disgusting conduct by DT, and deeply stupid. Melania looked fine in her pinstriped suit.

  368. polistra says:
    @ScarletNumber

    Pedantic at best, since you surely know that the narrative in question involves Texas as well as Illinois.

  369. guest says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Marco was a sweet little RENT boy. [rimshot]

    • Agree: polistra
  370. guest says:
    @syonredux

    “Inshalla” means “by the whiskers of my bright red ass” in Ye Olde Irish.

  371. @Kronos

    He learned a lot from that debate and adapted.

    One thing he learned was not to debate. The Kennedy/Nixon debates of 1960 were the last presidential face-offs until Carter and Ford agreed to revive the custom in 1976. Nixon did not debate in either ’68 or ’72.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  372. guest says:
    @Stan Adams

    I dunno, getting all hysterical over your grown son doesn’t sound strong to me. Your wife or daughter, okay. But son?

    I mean, Trump would do it for his sons, but he’d do it in a bullying way. Biden would probably come off as overly defensive.

    Moving on to another subject after firm denial and a little talking Hunter up would do.

    Which Joe kinda did. But then he reintroduced the subject down the line, which was a big mistake.

    • Replies: @jim jones
  373. Kronos says:
    @Pincher Martin

    True.

    But he invested a lot of time and effort in more standard TV interviews and such after 1960. He hired some superb PR/Media specialists during and after his 1968 win.

    Ailes used the “man in the arena” tapings to humanize Nixon, who, standing without a podium and surrounded by people, appeared spontaneous, warm, slightly humorous, self-deprecating, more mature and seasoned, and, above all less tricky. The partisan slasher of the 1950s was gone. Here was a man of vast experience, who had used his time out of office to reflect on the great challenges of our times and was ready to provide a war-divided America with “new ideas and new leadership.” Ailes’ deft camera work as Nixon responded to questions from “typical Americans” sold people the new Nixon.

    In fact, the canny media consultant had extenders fitted to all TV camera zoom lenses, and had Nixon’s eyes specially lit so as not to appear dark or shifty. The close camera work created an intimacy that, for the first time ever, made people comfortable with Richard Nixon. Aware that hot television lights made Nixon sweat, Ailes mandated the studio air conditioner be turned up at least a full four hours prior to the broadcast and limited camera rehearsal as much as possible to keep the lights off and the heat down. All studio doors were ordered sealed. Ailes had Nixon dab himself with a chemically treated towel between takes to avoid the beads of sweat that would form on his upper lip.

    The PR specialists did a very good job. He looks much more relaxed and joyous compared to some 1950s interviews posted on YouTube.

    It’s expected now that even local politicians take body presentation/speech classes. It’s so common that Trump and his “no-teleprompter” approach was breath of fresh air. Hillary took accent classes to help boost Bill’s political career in Arkansas.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  374. Clyde says:
    @Anonymous

    Real estate is a bit different from other investments. The scam with real estate is that it’s really an investment in the land value, which is the location value, not whatever building is sitting on the land. But then you can depreciate the building or structure on the property and pay little or nothing in tax while the underlying land value remains high or increases in value.

    Best simple explanation I have heard. Of course this fails for commercial real estate in Manhattan due to a big black swan or two. A few other Democrat run inner cities too.

  375. @Anonymous

    The homes around Lake Arrowhead a mile high in SoCal almost burned in 2003, but an unexpected rainstorm put out the fire. There was a lot of talk about thinning the forest back then after that, but then it faded.

    • Replies: @psmith
  376. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    The Jew says, “let’s you and him fight” – how original.

    It’s an enduring theme, probably because it’s untrue, right?

    Deflecting Jewish dominance in politics, media, finance, academia, arts, etc. by pointing out that the next president will probably be a Catholic (some Catholic… who supports abortion among other things) – and hence Catholic dominance! – is worse than intellectually dishonest – it drips with contempt for the basic intelligence of those to whom you peddle this, like we are all just dumb goyim who don’t understand what the thinly-veiled reality is. Is the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc. going after all these synagogues? Or is it going after the Catholic Church (ostensibly over abuse when the percentage of abuse pales in comparison to, say, those in public schools, not to forget that almost all the abuses occurred decades ago)? Is the Catholic Church interfering in Jewish religious rituals or are Jewish groups trying to interfere in Catholic rites? (Because other groups trying to alter Jewish behavior is anti-Semitism AND Jews not being allowed a say in how other groups behave is ALSO anti-Semitism).

    I’ll give you another one. “Those darn Asians (5% of the pop) are taking all your spots at the Ivies (15% of the slots), fellow white people. Go get them! And don’t worry about me (2% of the population taking 30% of the spots/half of the “white” spots).”

    You know, I don’t harbor hatred of Jews as some commenters here do (for one thing, I don’t think there is some nefarious Jewish plot going on everywhere and I am sympathetic to the genuine suffering that Jews of older generations underwent). But I am also not blind – Jews are a big part of the elite in the U.S. and many of them seem to use all means necessary to stay that way, fairness or consequences for others be damned. And every time a Jew like you – who is otherwise seemingly reasonable and intelligent – tells me none of that is happening and that, indeed, people ought to go knock on someone else who is slightly better off than they, I understand more and more the people who do hate Jews.

    Geez, if a Jew on “our” (broadly rightist) side is like you, what would the vast majority of Jews who are leftists be like, eh? Of course that’s a rhetorical question – I grew up with such Jews. I know exactly what and how they think.

  377. black sea says:
    @Anonymous

    Forest fires — big forest fires — are a perfectly natural phenomenon. The Yellowstone Park fires of 1988 burned close to 800,000 acres. A lot of people can’t conceive of such destruction without human agency, when in fact the only way to control such events is through human agency.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
  378. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    The only thing better would be to illustrate your example with a picture of the Happy Merchant.

    And seriously? You are going to play the victim here after writing this?

    After all, the Catholic Church has been known for its friendly approach to Jews for hundreds if not thousands of years so who better to pick as their puppets than those who swear allegiance to the Pope of Rome.

    Wow, wow. Sheer Chutzpah.

    The last time I checked American politicians go grovel to AIPAC (American-ISRAEL Public Affairs Committee), not to the Catholic League before each election (and the Catholic League is not even the official lobbying group for the Vatican – indeed there is NO official lobbying group for the Vatican).

    I actually have Israeli friends – in the IDF and in their intelligence agencies. I am rather fond of them. And I don’t begrudge their patriotism toward their country (they are all Mentschen), which I can’t say for Americans who shill for Israel.

    And, for the record, you anti-Catholic bigot, Catholics don’t “swear allegiance to the Pope of Rome.” We swear allegiance to the Trinitarian God and we fight for the Church, which is the whole body of all the believers, not the clerical hierarchy. We know there have been good popes, bad popes, brilliant popes, and stupid popes. The Church is inerrant only in matters of dogma and morality – It doesn’t tell me how to vote and, instead, Its Catechism teaches me to be loyal and patriotic to MY country. Don’t project Jews’ double-allegiance to slur Catholics.

    • Thanks: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Tlotsi
    , @Jack D
  379. @36 ulster

    Basically, in a Presidential debate you want to wear a navy blue suit, a white shirt, and a red tie. Red, white, and blue works.

  380. @Cato

    Why not have a big visible timer that cuts off each speaker automatically?

  381. Bruno says:

    So there was no sign of the alleged Biden dementia at the debate. Biden is not very bright but never has been. People who thought he would collapse were wrong.

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
  382. @Colin Wright

    That was the Babylon Bee’s advice to Trump: just let Biden talk for 90 minutes straight.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  383. jim jones says:
    @guest

    I know Lefty women who think that the Ukraine scandal proved that Trump is corrupt and were unaware that it was actually Hunter Biden that was incolved

    • Replies: @Kylie
  384. @R.G. Camara

    If you come up with anything interesting after three days let us know. – That’ll be interesting as a counterpoint to the short attention span culture we witness otherwise.

  385. TTSSYF says:
    @Bruno

    I didn’t think Biden would collapse, but I did think Trump would make him stammer or lose his train of thought, which did (although once or twice, I thought he almost did). I wish Trump had mixed in a little more “happy warrior” or even something funny, which he is well capable of. I think he’ll do better in the next two debates, if they actually occur. Regardless, I don’t think the debates change many votes. This country is clearly divided into two intractable and irreconcilable camps.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  386. Trump won me back in the debate. He had a good strategy to press and rattle Biden. And he executed very well.

    Would like him to press on issues more in next debate. Free Kyle, for one. And drive a wedge between Biden and Kamala. The left will push to declare Joe as demented once elected. Force Joe to talk about how he prevents that. Does he trust his VP to stand by him?

    • Thanks: Father Coughlin
    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
  387. bomag says:
    @S. Anonyia

    the constant interrupting from Trump made him somehow regain some lucidity

    I listened on the radio. When Biden got into longer segments, he started to ramble and make more gaffes: “zero energy production” for “zero carbon production” etc.

    Trump’s interruptions kept the segments shorter and helped hide Biden’s rambling nature. But they are both politicians, and their stock is sound bite parlance.

    • Replies: @Father Coughlin
  388. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    This country faces a serious threat from the proto-totalitarian racialized Left, we need a serious conservative leader who can warn and explain the issues

    Wong. The serious threat the country faces is from mass immigration.

    • Replies: @SC Rebel
    , @Anonymous Jew
  389. anon[286] • Disclaimer says:

    I liked the part where the two contending puppet rulers blamed each other for CIA germ warfare death. Biden blaming Trump for COVID, Trump blaming Biden for the multiple introductions of H1N1, bird/pig chimera from various different continents.

  390. Coemgen says:
    @John Johnson

    It’s quite pathetic that the liberals control the schools and yet this is the best candidate they can come up with. It just shows the true nihilistic nature of liberalism.

    The Democrats want to field a candidate who is both electable and does not want to actually perform the job of chief executive.

    In other words, the Democrats want to field a puppet.

    The “interagency” will tell the puppet president what to say and do (on important things such as the U.S.’s global military and intelligence network) and the “media” will propagandize how wonderful the puppet is and how bad his critics are.

    Biden is that candidate.

    • Agree: El Dato, Voltarde
  391. El Dato says:

    2020 GOLD: Liberalists can only stomach full-calorie propaganda while sitting in safe spaces anymore:

    NYT readers in rebellion, ‘canceling subs’ en masse after unfavorable Biden fact-check tweet

    The tweet contains a screenshot of its fact-checking coverage, which includes a debunked quote from Joe Biden. “We left him a booming economy. And he caused the recession.”

    The so-called paper of record unceremoniously analysed this claim under the title, “This is false,” much to the chagrin of its loyal readers.

    The screen-grabbed fact check goes on to detail how the economy was not “booming” during the final year of the Obama administration, on Biden’s watch as vice president.

    The Gray Lady even went so far as to defend Trump, saying he did not “cause” the pandemic recession.

    The New York Times faithful were aghast and left mouths agape as they declared they would be canceling their subscriptions for this egregious “enabling of Trump’s fascism.”

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
  392. ic1000 says:
    @Anonymous

    Good comment, 305, but not Agree-button material.

    > To watch the debate and see Donald Trump and Joe Biden, two disoriented morons, and to think that that one of them is what you’re fighting against.

    In the debate, Biden endorsed Critical Race Theory. He and his party make the “against” easy. I suspect more regular Americans would agree, if they stirred themselves to learn about the CRC ideology and its grifters. But they don’t. Lots of other examples.

    > We tend to think the Left is “winning,” and it is, but only in some areas. On economic matters, they have failed miserably at stopping the concentration of wealth at the top.

    The Wobblies and Fabians (1880s/90s) and the 1940s/50s CCNY Trotskyists and Stalinists agree with you, but they’re dead. Meanwhile, the American left defines itself on entirely different axes, to the delight of its patrons.

    • Agree: Redman
  393. @Anonymous

    The current tension has nothing to do with the Fed. That’s an old talking point by a few obsessives.

    Tension stems from the fact that White people have realized what’s being done to them and a critical number are losing faith in the current construct called the USA. The Left knows it and wants to push things to some final solution that will give them permanent victory.

    Also, populist energies are finally gaining strength which scares the devil out of those did well stabbing their countrymen in the back.

    The next 20 years may have more turmoil than we’ve seen in a long time.

    • Agree: Buck Ransom
  394. Tlotsi says:
    @Peter Johnson

    If the Democrats nominated a turnip, the media would declare it the winner of the debate.

  395. Corn says:
    @Neoconned

    Radical on the streets, colonized in the sheets.

    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Neoconned
  396. Tlotsi says:
    @Twinkie

    Double-allegiance would be an improvement.

  397. Redman says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Biden said a few times that the Hunter stuff had been “discredited” which was the MSM line in January.

    A little harder to do that now that a Senate committee report has just “re-credited” it, to coin a phrase.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
  398. Redman says:
    @AnotherDad

    Not always. In the first primary in 2015, Trump took out Rand Paul merely by mocking his hair. That was enough to keep the very smart Paul from edging into Trump’s camp of third-party voters. Paul was finished.

    It was mean, dumb and utterly irrelevant. And it worked.

    • Replies: @gcochran
  399. @Bill

    I addressed the point I wanted to address.

  400. @Lagertha

    I’ll wind up in some re-education prison by posting here.

    Meh. You would have anyway. We all would have eventually anyway.

  401. @Anonymous

    HBDers (i.e.Sailer) are a clown for supporting this guy – they are excited because he nominated a woman with seven kids (two of them Haitians)

    Ah, but you see, we distinguish between misplaced charity and miscegenation.

    • Troll: Corvinus
  402. @Anon

    The cage-match ambiance works for Trump. He just keeps sparring and punching.
    Biden comes across as a bad actor, weakly scripted and over-rehearsed. The studio lighting was not kind to whatever cosmetic surgery he has undergone. By the end he was white as a ghost and repeatedly looking down to read from prepared notes.

    • Agree: Redman
  403. @John Johnson

    John, those Independents and moderate Dems might not pull any lever for president.

    • Agree: Hibernian, S. Anonyia
  404. @William Badwhite

    Dang it sorry, all that was meant to be the pic of Dukakis looking ridiculous in the tank.

  405. Bill says:
    @Johann Ricke

    What do you think the rules are?

  406. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie

    I have nothing against Catholics. I don’t really think that they follow the orders of Bergolio any more than American Jews take orders from Netanyahu. I don’t think that they really have undue influence in America, although it is kinda strange that so much of the Supreme Ct. ended up being Catholic – what’s that all about? Jews and Catholics in recent decades have good relations – the old “the Jews killed Jesus” stuff is pretty much dead. What I said was meant sarcastically and doesn’t reflect my actual opinion any more than Trump really wanted the Russians to hack Hillary’s server. We’ve just had a discussion about how sarcasm goes completely over the head of people with different views and you once again prove it.

    My point (which you totally missed) is that the anti-Semite sees the hidden Jewish hand in everything. His milk turned sour – the Jews done it. America might get a Catholic President – the Joos done it (as a Catholic himself, he sees nothing wrong in a Catholic President – the only problem is the Joos). Down deep, they think the same way as blacks – their people have no agency (even if one of their own is President) – anything that happens is done TO them by someone else – whitey, the Jews, Asians, etc.

  407. @PhysicistDave

    well, one of Marco’s few redeeming qualities was that he seemed to be a sweet little boy.

    Uhhh…. I suppose, if you’re into that sort of thing

  408. Hibernian says:
    @Anonymous

    …of insecurity toward the White Protestant stock that created and form the core of this country.

    Southern Anglo-Celts do continue to defend that core. Also Midwestern Mayflower descendants who are often part German, part Scandinavian, or, horror of horrors, part Irish. Northeastern John Lindsay/Bill Weld/Christine Todd Whitman types, not so much.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  409. Corn says:
    @Anonymous

    while the underlying land value remains high or increases in value

    .

    Land value tax now.

  410. @Whiskey

    Jacob Blake Jr a well know bully and abuser of women had 3x

    But not with white wimminz

    • Replies: @Whiskey
  411. I love The Atlantic front page right now:

    Cancel the Debates

    A Disgusting Night for Democracy

    The Joke’s on Us

    (the latter complete with Pepe the Frog in S.A. uniform — try not to bust a nut, Reg)

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @J.Ross
    , @anonymous
  412. Hibernian says:
    @Colin Wright

    It’s an awkward metaphor that requires rotating the “K” so that it is lying on its back. A more gently sloped “V” sitting on a horizontal crossbar. The usual metaphor for a slow recovery is “U” shaped recovery. The”K” acknowledges that recovery came soon but claims that it is proceeding somewhat slowly. It’s a weak rejoinder tho the President’s claim of quick recovery.

    • Thanks: Colin Wright
  413. I do wish Trump would bring more of his happy-warrior rally persona to the debates — contemptuous but playful, not so pissed.

    As for Biden, what’s with those eyes? Someone on ZHedge said it well — he looks like he just came down the UFO ramp

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    , @Tusk
  414. Jack D says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    This answers the question of “who won?” If the debate hurt Trump or helped Biden, would The Atlantic be begging for the rest of them to be cancelled? Not in a million years. Biden was not the senile old man that some people here were expecting but neither did he acquit himself particularly well.

    • Replies: @Travis
    , @Known Fact
    , @res
  415. @Servant of Gla'aki

    Harmeet’s been sending me frequent appeals for donations. I did not know she was a she– a problem with these foreign names– nor that she’s a friend of Andy Ngo and counsel to James Damore.

    I’ll label her “not spam”.

    (Worst anagram ever, though: Homeland Hitler.)

  416. BB753 says:
    @Corn

    And a very bad Muslim girl fornicating with unbelievers! Are her Muslim constituents fine with that?

  417. My take.

    In the most eagerly awaited dual since Vice President Aaron Burr took on Alexander Hamilton in a gunfight in 1804, former Vice President Joe Biden last night took on Donald Trump in what was billed as a presidential debate with rules, but rapidly turned into a freestyle brawl with microphones as the weapon of choice.

    Burr was declared the winner, since he literally killed Hamilton in that dual more than 200 years ago, but both contestants survived last night and both claimed victory.

    From their point of view it may have been win-win, but most commentators were quick to describe the debate as lose-lose for the American people as there was no substantial discussion of policy differences.

    Summary:

    Trump’s main point: Biden is a commie and a nepotist.
    Biden’s main point: Trump is a liar and a tax cheat.

    Verdict: A draw. Neither man succeeded in laying a glove on the other.

    Reaction: Internationally America’s enemies breathed a sigh of relief, noting that whoever wins in November, the US government will remain rudderless with total incompetency at the highest level.

    Vlad ‘The Impaler” Putin, a well-known Russian commentator and TV personality, said to be Trump’s best friend said: “Gorblimey, guvnor, he’s not my puppy, he’s my Arctic fox.”

    Closer to home, when interviewed at her kindergarten, Biden’s grand-daughter, echoing Aaron Burr, said:

    I wouldn't have survived 5 minutes on that stage without slapping him across the face – and I don't think I'm alone in thinking that. So tell me how someone Trump calls "sleepy joe" and says is on uppers could wade through an hour and a half of this nonsense.— Naomi Biden (@NaomiBiden) September 30, 2020

    Round two, the Rumble in the Jungle will follow soon and the finale, the Killer in Manila, will conclude in the three-part reality TV series that has had viewers running to the vomitarium.

    • Troll: Inquiring Mind
  418. @Hibernian

    Cuomo and DeBlah have New York in a Z-shape recovery, or maybe one of those weird cyrillic letters

    • Replies: @Redman
  419. psmith says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Rule of thumb in Federal land management circles is that you get two years of public buy-in after a really bad fire to accomplish fuels reduction/thinning and prescribed burn projects, after which people lose interest and/or start complaining.

  420. anon[230] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Biden, who is almost 78, comes across as an old man, just as you would expect most 78 year old men to.

    Helen Reddy was also 78.

  421. @syonredux

    Biden said “inshallah”? His internal polling must show him down in Michigan.

    • LOL: Hibernian
  422. Like Tom in Metropolitan, I follow the debates secondhand, to get two perspectives at once. The whole time, I was thinking of Chris Matthews. Never heard of this Wallace guy.

    • LOL: res
    • Replies: @anon
  423. Thomas says:
    @Johann Ricke

    I get that President’s don’t get to fire everyone they don’t like. That’s a straw man. They do get to fire a lot of people. Clinton, if I recall, fired every U.S. attorney when he came in. Bush fired many as well. Obama purged the military of flag officers who weren’t on board. It also isn’t just a question of firing people, but also who gets promoted, “reassigned to Alaska,” who is known to have clout with other organs of government such that they have influence, and so forth. These are all just among the many, many levers of power that Trump has never shown any sign of mastering or attempting to master. Trump has serially fired a lot of political appointees and replaced them regularly, often with “acting” officials, in a pattern that doesn’t appear to have helped them do their jobs very well. The management style of a reality TV show doesn’t scale up well to the Oval Office. And, again, Trump never managed to develop a loyal bench of talent that would have helped him fulfill any sort of policy or political goals. He selects people either based on who he knows or whoever Jared Kushner has dug up somewhere (from Koch outfits, among other places), or from long-standing establishment time-servers that are the only names anyone in his administration have been able to throw out there.

    I agree that Trump fights, sometimes, when he’s not just tweeting something bellicose but hollow (“LAW & ORDER!”). The problem is that he doesn’t actually fight very well. His style of fighting, on any front, is that of a barroom drunk punching wildly, and often as not tripping over his own feet.

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Disagree: Redman
  424. Anonymous[166] • Disclaimer says:
    @36 ulster

    Radio listeners said Nixon won; TV viewers favored Kennedy.

  425. @obwandiyag

    Carter was the only president in US history to not wage war. That makes him Satan.

    No, it just makes him the best Democrat since Cleveland.

    Now go to Maui and apologize to Lindbergh.

  426. Trump’s responses were just soooo infuriating. He missed an easy opportunity to call out Wallace’s lie about White Supreemists being involved in Kenosha, and defend the young man who obviously shot in self-defense. Instead he said something vague and stupid about the Proud Boys, which the media are predictably spinning as White Supreemist dog-whistling.

    • Replies: @Redman
  427. SC Rebel says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Come on, death doesn’t stop people from voting Democrat. It happens all the time.

  428. Here’s the problem I have with this kind of debate:

    It is well-known that on health care insurance Biden favors the ‘public option’, but does not favor total abolition of private health insurance plans or plans offered through employers.

    (So there would be no mandatory health insurance tax on income that all have to pay even if they also have private health insurance. However note that in countries like the UK everyone has national health paid out of taxes, but everyone is also free to take out private health insurance plans, and as many as 10% actually do also have private health insurance.)

    In the debate Trump claims that a Biden administration plans to abolish private insurance, which is not true.

    OK, you may say, this is just a debating tactic.

    But supposing Biden comes back next time and says that the second Trump administration plans to put all African-Americans in concentration camps, and Trump retorts and says this is not true, or in the parlance, ‘fake news’.

    Is it then legitimate for the Biden camp to say: “Ha, ha! Of course you will say that, but this is just a debate tactic to get out the black vote, and since all is fair in love and war, get over it”?

    • Troll: Redman
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  429. @Stan Adams

    Hunter Biden IS a criminal and a moocher and a worthless bum!

    Joe was forced to agree.

  430. SC Rebel says:
    @Anonymous

    Which is a topic that did not come up.

    Strange indeed. Trump sort of addressed it when speaking about COVID and shutting down travel from China, but that’s it.

  431. (Chris Wallace). of course.

    not sure how much more evidence we need. we know exactly what’s happening.

  432. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Don’t care for Woods because of his part in 9/11
    but this was good.

  433. If you look at the President’s and Biden’s timelines (Twitter etc.) this morning, plus the commentariat, you’ll see that the Presidential race just became almost entirely about race. That’s definitely good for America. Nice going, (((Chris Wallace))).

    • Disagree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Ben tillman
  434. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    I almost gagged when he denounced Biden for calling black criminals “super predators” and proudly spoke about “all of the people (blacks)” he had released from prison.

    Your gagging reflex is attached to having no experience with poor black folks, or how many of them process information that is important to them. Good for you. You’re part of the reason Trump’s approval rating for blacks has shot up from 3% to 16%, and climbing.

    Enjoy your banana oatmeal this morning, and stfu, whitey.

    • Agree: Redman
  435. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    But supposing Biden comes back next time and says that the second Trump administration plans to put all African-Americans in concentration camps, and Trump retorts and says this is not true, or in the parlance, ‘fake news’.

    Were I Trump, I’d say this was a national emergency countermeasure to thwart Biden’s “Send Them Back to Africa” plan. There’s strength in numbers, and the National Guard would protect our African Americans from Biden’s inhuman plans for mass deportation until after I win the election. I would also ask Biden if he has no decency, sir.

    btw, there’s certainly a hell of a lot of leftist’s posting on this thread. Some even appear to be very far left.

    Proud Boys, please stand by.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  436. J.Ross says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Ditto BBC News Radio, which pushed the “we are all the losers of this debate” thing. Also pushed that Proud Boys, a militant anti-Nazi and street thug group founded, with miscegnator Gavin McGinnes, by a black homosexual, is “white supremacist,” so, per James Earl Jones, “the only thing I gotta do to be white is be gay and black.” BBC talked to several massively biased and screamingly dishonest “experts,” but, beyond claiming that Trump supporters are now leaving their candidate because they had no idea that Donald was a brash and clumsy speaker (they’re literally reviving the “I used to be a Trump supporter like you guys, but” line), they did talk to an actual Trump supporter, running away from her when she asked why Biden would not be asked to condemn Burn Loot Murder, which in Airstrip One is consistently misrepresented as legitimate.

  437. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    Yeah he totally missed the part where you were losing so you threw out baseless bigotry accusations like a little kid.

  438. carol says:
    @Bill

    Well, let’s have a look at depreciation, eh? It’s a big subject. When I first went to law school in 1985 all I recall is straight-line depreciation. Then came tax reform in 1986. Now we have all sorts of sweetheart depreciation deductions. They get better every year! And it’s almost as if most our commercial building industry counts on them to “profit.”

    Let’s just pull those deductions, and see what happens.

  439. Anon7 says:

    Kayleigh strikes back!

  440. @ScarletNumber

    I was wondering if someone would get the Nixonian reference. I’m not sure his campaign adopted it, but I know it was later used sarcastically against him.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  441. @bomag

    It’s something for Trump’s team to explore… whether giving Biden more time and space actually unmasks his senility more.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
  442. @El Dato

    The New York Times has boiled off all readers who are open to having the narrative challenged. Their loyal base insists on strict adherence to the party line.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Ben tillman
  443. V. Hickel says:
    @John Johnson

    The simple fact that he needs captions kind of says it all, no?

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
  444. @Anonymous

    It’s much like a chicken-egg dilemma between White leftists and immigrants; they enable each other. If we closed our borders 30, 40 years ago White leftists would have far less power – voting or otherwise. But at the same time White leftists helped enable and perpetuate immigration (along with corporate/cucked Neoconservatives).

    Trump isn’t exactly our spokesman, and his policies don’t stray too far from conventional Republicans. It doesn’t matter. Trump will be the last Republican president and the country will go the way of California. There’s some hope if the party pivots populist in mass. But they’re too stupid to do that. So we’re left in the Current Year, with a long dark winter ahead for Anglo Americans/ Core Americans whatever you want to call us (and if you want to be practical and strategic and include right-wing pro-Anglo Jews and Browns et al).

    The only path forward is independence. But that’s a long way off and takes courage and organization. And you’ll never get places like California back. But carving out a slice of the mountain states may happen in 50 years. Have a lot of kids and pass down your values. Organize and don’t cuck – never bend the knee. You probably won’t live to see America’s rebirth, but your kids might.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  445. Travis says:
    @Jack D

    good point. I suspect the Democrats would not want another debate. Biden somehow survived the debate with much help from the moderator. Trump should do better in the next debate. Hard to see how Biden will do better.

  446. anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I love The Atlantic front page right now:

    Cancel the Debates

    A Disgusting Night for Democracy

    The Joke’s on Us

    Indeed!

  447. @Father O'Hara

    Is that any way to treat a lady?

    • LOL: Gary in Gramercy
  448. notsaying says:
    @anon

    He made all these wild statements about Biden. I think he’s the one with the problem.

    • Replies: @anon
  449. @Father Coughlin

    If Trump were actually disciplined and better prepared he could have taken advantage Biden’s mental issues. Biden is clearly on meds that wear off. I’ll be watching future debates more in anticipation of a Biden meltdown than a great Trump zinger.

  450. Jmaie says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Kamala Harris could be in an excellent position if Trump wins re-election.

    Excepting that Kamala was utterly un-competitive as candidate for the top office. She would need to have at least middling attraction and there are too many rising stars who will eclipse her.

  451. @Hibernian

    It’s an awkward metaphor that requires rotating the “K” so that it is lying on its back.

    I think he meant that some people (“billionaires and millionaires”) are benefiting (the upsloping arm on the K) while everyone else does poorly (the downsloping arm on the K).

    Biden pretending to dislike billionaires was almost as galling as H. Clinton pretending she was going to punish Wall Street.

  452. Jmaie says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    I explained how that’s not true because getting loans and rents based on appreciation is making money.

    Rents are determined by the market, not by the value of the property, and loans are not income.

  453. anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @notsaying

    Guliani

    He made all these wild statements about Biden.

    So? What difference does that make?

  454. @TTSSYF

    This country is clearly divided into two intractable and irreconcilable camps.

    The key point.

    These aren’t arguments over taxes, or the minimum wage or medical provision but over identity/nation.

    Their camp espouses Jewish minoritarian ideology–whitey bad, oppressive, evil–and is busy deconstructing America into just rainbow hued marketplace ruled by a bullying (and micromanaging) super-state.

    My camp is happy with our American identity and history and wish to remain–or return to being–a free people with limited republican government and the rule-of-law and part of Western civilization.

    Irreconcilable.

  455. Turk 152 says:

    What suprised me about the debate (other than Biden was reasonably coherent) was that I found Biden to be a dishonest and deceitful man. I thought the lies were coming from Clinton. Obama and the DNC machine, while Biden was just a fairly affable typical company man. Is all he did was stick to the narrative that Trump was a carton character villan and gave us nothing of substance. Biden seems to be a snake, I did not expect that.

  456. J1234 says:

    As I suspected, the “Biden is senile” narrative has largely backfired in the context of this first debate. This shows a miscalculation on the part of people like Tucker Carlson and Styxhexenhammer666. Don’t get me wrong…Biden surely is in the early stages of senility, but that can apparently be medicated away for a couple of hours, if his performance was any indication. I think that Biden definitely came across as being weaker than Trump, but Trump definitely came across as being less likeable than Biden (who wasn’t that likeable himself.)

    If I’m being honest and objective, it was likely a draw, but for the Dems, Senile Joe not losing is celebrated as a win. To be fair, an underdog not losing is almost always celebrated as a win, regardless of context (Finland’s Winter War.) The good news is that he now won’t be such an underdog going into the next two debates…

    …or will there even BE two more debates? Will Trump’s sometimes outrageous behavior last night be the excuse to discontinue the debate process that the Biden camp was looking for? Maybe not, but anything’s possible. The most salient issue that Trump can emphasize the next time is Kamala Harris being poised to assume command when Joe’s mental abilities sink too low. She is truly the weak link of that ticket, and what a majority of Americans are truly fearful of. Her “high approval ratings” don’t jibe at all with her dismal showing in the Democratic primaries.

  457. @Anonymous

    they are excited because he nominated a woman with seven kids (two of them Haitians) to the SC to uphold Roe v Wade. What a joke.

    Adopting a few foreign or disabled kids is what large and wealthy Christian families will do.

    They are trying to maintain a Christian image while living in a mansion with maids and nannies.

    It’s done to offset public judgments of greed or selfishness.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  458. res says:
    @Thomas

    Joe got notably less energetic about 30-40 minutes in, I assume after whatever they have him on started to wear off.

    An interesting point given the request for breaks every 30 minutes.

  459. @Jack D

    I can see a Biden fan feeling he won but still calling for no more debates — like, let’s not press our luck in case Trump gets his act back together for Act II. Kind of like cutting off the jam in roller derby once you’ve scored some points

  460. Biden did better than expected but Trump still won by a hair.

    Biden didn’t seem to deny that he hasn’t done much as a Senator.

    His poor attempt at defending Hunter was a sign of weakness that women will notice. Hispanics also don’t respect men that can’t defend their families. Saying he had a drug problem on national TV just made it worse.

    He is lucky the MSM is on his side and won’t investigate the 3.5 million payment to Hunter from a Moscow wife.

    If that was Trump’s son it would be front page news.

  461. res says:
    @Hibernian

    More what William Badwhite said. I actually thought Biden did a somewhat decent job of explaining it, but describing it as a letter K (in contrast to the V analogy, which is obvious) is a stretch.

    Here is a longer explanation.
    https://www.fastcompany.com/90549147/forget-u-or-v-or-w-we-may-be-headed-toward-a-k-shaped-recovery

  462. Jmaie says:
    @Stan Adams

    Trump aimed his performance at the low-information, low-IQ, working-class voter.

    This presupposes he wasn’t just being himself . JMHO he isn’t that subtle and figures his message has equal appeal to all.

    This is not meant to be derogatory, just my impression of his thought process.

  463. gcochran says:
    @Redman

    I more than half like Paul, but he’s not smart.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  464. Jmaie says:
    @Polynikes

    But he won’t increase his turnout.

    Last polling I saw said that undecided voters were down to 6% (and I find it hard to believe there are even that many – like the old joke about masturbation, there’s guys that do and guys that lie about it).

    So likely nothing at this point will increase (or decrease) his turnout.

  465. res says:
    @Jack D

    Perhaps, but I think Wallace was the least anti-Trump moderator we will see. The rest of the debates should be interesting.

    One thing that struck me was the gotcha climate change question directed at Trump (also the request to disavow white supremacists). Was there anything comparable put to Biden?

    At some point do biased moderators cause their own cause more harm than help?

  466. Jmaie says:
    @Stan Adams

    Trump trashed Hunter as a criminal, a moocher, a worthless bum. All Biden could do was keep shrieking “That’s not true! Not true! Not true!”

    The joke about the 1992 campaign was that Clinton would stop calling GHWB a wimp and Bush would stop saying, “No I’m not.”

    Not as funny if you can’t hear the whiny tone of Bush’s “riposte” but you get the idea.

  467. @Kronos

    But he invested a lot of time and effort in more standard TV interviews and such after 1960. He hired some superb PR/Media specialists during and after his 1968 win.

    Absolutely. Nixon was always a great student and one thing the Kennedys taught him in 1960 was the importance of controlling his public image down to the last molecule. His interactions with the media after his loss in California in 1962 were tightly scripted.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  468. Jack D says:
    @James O'Meara

    pretend Joe is senile, but he really is sharp as a tack — that’s why the bosses were OK with running him — then he comes out for the debate and wipes the floor with Trump, who’s already planning to hold back lest he seem a bully?

    Your prediction aged like milk.

  469. @ScarletNumber

    Biden is rubbing off on me (ugh). I meant, of the same generation as Kennedy, but since JFK was the youngest elected, Reagan the oldest (until then), we tend to think of them as polar opposites. IOW, JFK was referring to men like Reagan. If I had access to Gary Wills book I could have just cut and pasted it.

  470. @Jack D

    After all, the Catholic Church has been known for its friendly approach to Jews for hundreds if not thousands of years so who better to pick as their puppets than those who swear allegiance to the Pope of Rome.

    Unfortunately for the theory that the Roman Catholic Church is responsible for the common distrust and dislike of Jews that is usually called anti-Semitism, this distrust and dislike predates Christianity by centuries and seems to have its origins with the appearance on the world stage of Jews as a distinct human clade or race. A considerable amount of this attitude is likely due to the propensity of Jews to wage genocidal wars against their neighbors or at best shun them. Such wars are glorified in Jewish mythology, e.g., the Book of Joshua and the other “historical” books of the TaNaKh. That these likely had some basis in reality is suggested by the large-scale genocidal outbreaks of Jewish violence against their non-Jewish neighbors during the period from the first century BC to the early second century AD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War). During the particular outbreak the Romans called the Tumultus Iudaicus, Jews may have massacred as many as half a million of their non-Jewish neighbors, all across the Eastern Mediterranean, men women and children, and often in barbarous ways.

    Although major figures in the Eastern Church, e.g. Saint Chrysostom, expressed antipathy towards Jews from early on – perhaps because of their intimate familiarity with Jewish hostility towards non-Jews – up until sometime before the Disputation of Paris in 1240 AD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris) the Roman Catholic Church regarded Jews as potential Christians who just hadn’t yet fully appreciated the new Covenant provided by Jesus Christ. This changed when a Jewish renegade made the Christian community aware that Rabbinic Judaism was a very different animal from the earlier instantiations of the Jewish religion portrayed in the Old and New Testaments of the Christian Bible. Translations of Talmud passages, e.g. the ben Panthera libel, made it clear to Church leaders that a fundamental aspect of Rabbinic Judaism was an implacable hatred of Christianity and more generally all non-Jews.

    The misconception that the Jewish religion has at least an evolutionary continuity from its mythical origins among the patriarchs up to its present instantiations in various forms of Rabbinic Judaism is utterly false and seems to be as common among Jews as non-Jews. Even the mythology of the TaNaKh reveals as much. The TaNaKh texts from the Torah through Kings and Chronicles have as their background many different Jewish cult centers and religious beliefs and practices. If there was a Temple at Jerusalem it wasn’t the sole cult center. After Ezra’s return from the Babylonian exile, he and the exiled Jewish elite that returned with him redacted the TaNaKh, established Jerusalem-centered Temple worship, and persecuted those, e.g., Samaritans, who would not acccept the new religion. Five hundred years later, after the final destruction of the Temple and Jewish Diaspora, Rabbinic Judaism, fundamentally based on the Talmud, began to evolve. Catholics, Protestants (particularly “Fundamentalists”), and Jews have all chosen to ignore the historical facts and confuse pre-exilic, Temple centered, and Rabbinic Judaism.

    But I digress. From the time of the Roman Empire to the present, Rabbinic Judaism has implicitly and explicitly expressed a hostility towards non-Jews both theoretically and, when possible, in practice. ( My favorite example, Maimonides injunction that if a Jew rape a non-Jewish woman then the punishment must be death for the non-Jew but only if she is older than three. Maimonides added that such practices should of course be avoided unless Jews were dominant at that time and place.) That non-Jews might choose to react in kind is not the result of any special attitude of or action by the Roman Catholic Church.

    • Thanks: Father Coughlin
    • Replies: @Father Coughlin
  471. Muggles says:
    @Hibernian

    That 31.5 years is generous; that makes real estate investment attractive.

    Not really. It used to be shorter. There is a minor industry involved in separating a “building” @ 31.5 years from various separate components (due to various court rulings) which enjoy much shorter depreciation periods.

    Shorter = better.

    Of course large buildings cost a lot so the original cost basis (less land costs) is often very large.

    There is also “depreciation recapture” for shorter depreciation items (not w/ real estate buildings). Also it must be noted that most buildings/real estate get sold before they are 30 years old. So new higher depreciation is possible but capital gains gets triggered.

    Yes, also complex rules for reinvesting sale proceeds to “like kind” properties that defer capital gain recognition. Eventually though, since doing that actually reduces the tax cost basis of the newly acquired “like kind” property purchases with the old property proceeds, the capital gain does get triggered when the final property is sold. Trump’s lowering the capital gains rate overall (as other Presidents have done) is a nice development for him (and others).

    To learn all of the tax RE rules can take up a couple of semesters at business school.

    • Agree: Pincher Martin
  472. Kylie says:
    @jim jones

    “I know Lefty women who think that the Ukraine scandal proved that Trump is corrupt and were unaware that it was actually Hunter Biden that was incolved[sic]”

    Really? You amaze me. I know some Lefty women with advanced degrees, high-paying jobs, etc. But not one of them thinks. It’s simply not in the nature of the beast.

  473. Muggles says:
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Re: Bloomberg’s personal tax returns.

    Yes, the NYT or perhaps Forbes did an interview with someone back when Bloomie ran for mayor. He claimed he did “release” his returns but that consisted of showing a handful of local reporters summaries of data, not actual returns. The reporter in the story said it was worthless info.

    In the final Dem primary debate Bloomie promised to release all of his tax returns, when pressed by other candidates.

    He dropped out the next day. Never released any of his tax returns. And yet they call Trump bad and a liar! Bloomberg is about 15 times richer than Trump.

    Meanwhile multi billionaire and would-be Dem President Bloomberg is paying thus far unpaid fines and fees for felons in FL so they can vote for Biden. Yet they claim the GOP is the “party of the rich.”

  474. Hibernian says:
    @Harry Baldwin

    This happened in the ’80s and ’90s.

  475. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    Responding to questions raised by The New York Times this week that reported the president paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017, and none in 10 of the previous 15 years, Mr Trump said they would release his records “when they were ready.”

    Mr Biden chimed in, “when? inshallah,” using the Arabic word for God willing.

    Maybe Biden should make using Islamic terminology his “thing”:

    Biden: “Trump’s pledge to “Make America Great Again” is pure Shirk.

    Biden: Glad to be here, Chris. Assalaamu Álaikum

    Biden:”Of course, if elected, my first act will be to say Bismillahir rahmanir rahim

    Biden: “White supremacists represent Dar-al-harb. Therefore, they must be destroyed.”

    Biden:”Given the historic nature of their crimes, Whites must accept Dhimmi status. It’s only fair.”

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  476. Muggles says:
    @Guy De Champlagne

    then keep doing that until you die and then leave everything tax free to your spouse

    Yes dying is a great way to save on your own taxes. I highly recommend it for you, soon.

  477. In order to make the presidential election a true spectator sport, the right to vote, in that contest, should be traded as though it were a commodity.

    Anyone who wants to cast a vote for president should have to pony up a non-refundable, $100 registration fee (a poll tax), plus the amount that they would pay/accept to either vote or not.

    At midnight, on Election Day, a game server counts the number of participants (N), and ranks them based on price.

    The highest bidding half (N/2) wins the right to vote. 100% of the money they deposited goes to payoff those who were outbid.

    The poll taxes collected (N*$100) gets distributed to unregistered (but otherwise eligible) voters.

  478. @Jack D

    Ah, enough with dissimulation. Sign the petition.

    • LOL: Tusk
  479. Anonymous[856] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    This is just moral grandstanding. It’s not sincere. If it was, these people would be taking out their checkbooks and transferring their wealth to the natives of the vicinity. They have no intention of getting on planes and going ‘back’ to Europe either. They do however enjoy the moral buzz that comes from making these noble declarations.

    Look at what people do, not what they say.

  480. @Known Fact

    The squint — Banjo-playing boy from Deliverance?

  481. Muggles says:
    @gcochran

    Rand Paul was a practicing ophthalmologist prior to being elected to the Senate.

    So, pretty “smart.”

    I will say he’s not as politically smart as his Dad, but Ron was in/out of politics as a congressman since the late 70s. I knew him then (and now, some). Very smart too, and an obstetrician-gynecologist. who practiced between congressional terms.

    Rand seemed pretty naive about his fellow Republicans but wised up quickly when he had to deal with them in his own brief (very trial run) bid for the nomination in 2016.

    Rand has become a usually reliable Trump backer though not uncritically. He isn’t a professional politician (nor was his Dad) but for raw intelligence I’d say he’s among the top 20% in the Senate. That’s a pretty low bar however. Have you ever heard NY Dem Senator (and Senate Dem minority leader) Chuck Schumer talk about anything?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anonymous
  482. @Twinkie

    You’re absolutely right with this comment and your other comment responding to that post. I can not add anything more but merely tapping “Agree” just didn’t seem to do it justice.

    • Agree: Pincher Martin
  483. @syonredux

    Somewhat OT, but, still …..

    In the US (and elsewhere, of course) there are private schools, many of them religious. Various Christian schools (Baptist, Catholic, …) are just that, religious plus American core curriculum (math, English, geography, …).

    Jewish schools are uniquely ethnic, because they, apart from English, math,…. learn Hebrew, Jewish history & loyalty to Israel. Of course, this is so because Judaism is an ethnic religion. So, this school is, in this respect, fundamentally different from Baptist, Episcopalian, Catholic … You don’t learn about other ethnic loyalty in a Christian school.

    What about Islam?

    They could have Islamic schools, but I think also without ethnic component. Simply, Muslims are Arabs, Turks, Iranians, Malays, Bengalis … so that “alien” element in these schools would be its stress on non-Western civilization.

    What could be truly alien, in ethnic sense, would be Sino-Confucian/Taoist schools, with ethnic Chinese studying core curriculum (math, English, …) plus Chinese script, Mandarin language, Chinese history & spiritual/religious Chinese traditions. I wonder why they didn’t try that already.

    Just a thought.

    • Replies: @anon
  484. Anonymous[316] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Agree with everything you have said. At this point the debate is pretty arbitrary. No matter what Biden says he remains the puppet of the Dem establishment. You know you will get anti-whitism with a deliberately soft on China stance because they are paid off.

    With Trump you get a blowhard con artist who is not 2016 campaign Trump in action but probably won’t start a shooting war and is not on board with the anti-whitism for the most part. Not good at handling a pandemic but no indication Biden would be better. His SCJ noms are better too, I would think. And you get pushback on China and its military base expansion. In action, you get a pretty competent president. Pre COVID I would have said he has been a good president in action and cruising for re-election.

    Both know to drop to their knees and apply the chapstick for Israel.

    With Trump you get the feeling as you watch that yes, I know he’s pulling the con in many cases but I somehow like him and think he is doing better than Biden. Biden did not appear overly demented (possibly due to a good cocktail of drugs) but he lacks the charisma, IQ and doggedness of Trump. You leave with the impression that by hook or crook Trump’s going to get his way just like he did in the debate. He may not be fair or nice but you see his interactions and he is the guy you want dealing with others on the world stage, and frankly, all the anti-white a-holes out there.

    Biden strikes me as the being kind of a legacy representative of a quite masculine white male, the last they could get to front the party before it evolved into what it is now. Newer representatives of his mold don’t have the self-hatred to want to be involved. He looks older and less vital than Trump. There is a reason he has been bridesmaid but never the bride. VP but never president.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  485. @Anonymous

    I reject your reality and substitute my own.

  486. Anon 2 says:

    Wallace’s grandfather’s original surname was Wallik which sounds Polish.
    Hence it’s likely that Wallace is descended from Polish Jews,
    and definitely from the Jews who inhabited the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
    After the Russian conquest of the Commonwealth, the Jews were confined by the
    Russians to the Pale of Settlement (roughly contiguous with the eastern portions
    of the Rzeczpospolita (Res Publica)) in order to prevent the Jews from moving to
    major Russian cities such as Moscow or St. Petersburg

  487. anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Muggles

    Rand seemed pretty naive about his fellow Republicans but wised up quickly when he had to deal with them in his own brief (very trial run) bid for the nomination in 2016.

    Not to mention getting his ribs cracked when his neighbor physically attacked him.

    Have you ever heard NY Dem Senator (and Senate Dem minority leader) Chuck Schumer talk about anything?

    Yes. Oh, yes.

    Yes, I have.

  488. @Kylie

    Really? You amaze me. I know some Lefty women with advanced degrees, high-paying jobs, etc. But not one of them thinks. It’s simply not in the nature of the beast.

    Seems to me that what passes for “thinking“ in women is a combination of feels, calling their besties to find out what they “think”, and counting heads/sticking a wet finger up in the wind.

    • Replies: @Kylie
  489. AndrewR says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The M̶e̶x̶i̶c̶a̶n̶i̶z̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ or better yet third-worldization of the US continues. Lovely.

  490. @I, Libertine

    I follow Nixon on Twitter, so it wasn’t going to get past me. There are campaign buttons you can find with Nixon’s picture that say “Tanned, Rested, and Ready”, although I don’t know if they were put out by their campaign per se.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  491. Corvinus says:
    @Neil Templeton

    “You’re always in character, Crow. Missed your cawwing.”

    And you’re always the Joker.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
  492. Anonymous[419] • Disclaimer says:
    @Muggles

    Idiot.
    Schumer scored 1600 on the SAT, and attended Harvard undergrad and Harvard Law School.
    People like Muggles give HBD a bad name. Steve should moderate these kind of comments out of existence.

  493. @Buzz Mohawk

    “He told us to turn our thermostats down to 65 and put on sweaters.”

    I can’t think of a more surefire way to lose the Black vote in America.

  494. Kylie says:
    @Charles St. Charles

    “Seems to me that what passes for ‘thinking’ in women is a combination of feels, calling their besties to find out what they ‘think’, and counting heads/sticking a wet finger up in the wind.”

    And reading The NYT and watching CNN and Oprah. Seriously. These are examples of Lefty women from real life.

    In all fairness, I know some conservative women who seek out source material and bone up on facts. I do not know any left-wing women who do that. Of course, the former are all better educated (indoctrinated) than the latter.

    • Agree: Father Coughlin
    • Replies: @Anon
  495. Redman says:
    @Known Fact

    Totally agree. It’s a shit show here in the big apple.

    DeBlasio is AWOL. A complete nonentity at the moment of the City’s crisis. Totally devoid of personality or any leadership qualities.

    Last night, Trump specifically mentioning what a shit hole NYC has become in record time made me wish he were our Mayor.

  496. Neoconned says:
    @Corn

    Corn weren’t you the user who popularized the “WE WUZ KANGZ!!” thing?

    • Replies: @Corn
  497. Redman says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Works to his advantage. The new leader of the Proud Boys is an AfroCuban after Gavin stepped away.

    People are googling the PBs today and can’t comprehend why this group is being called white supremacist while having a black leader.

    They see the ADL and SPLC bs, but then get confused. Red Pilling perfection.

  498. Whiskey says: • Website
    @William Badwhite

    I think Wilt Chamberlain has 20,000 descendants half by White women.

  499. @Steve Richter

    Kyle’s lawyer is suing the Biden / Harris campaign for an ad suggesting Kyle is a white supremacist.

  500. @Jack D

    My point (which you totally missed) is that the anti-Semite sees the hidden Jewish hand in everything. His milk turned sour – the Jews done it.

    He didn’t miss your ‘point’ nor did anyone else here. Your ‘point’ is that if “the Jews” didn’t turn your milk sour, it’s impossible for them to have done anything else. That’s called BS, to put it politely. Have you noticed, by the way, that no one’s falling for it?

    • Agree: Pincher Martin
  501. Tusk says:
    @Known Fact

    He’s wearing dark contacts to hide that his pupils are dilated from stimulants.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    , @anon
  502. @Jus' Sayin'...

    @JackD You better check in with some higher-ups and see if youre really doing the service you may think you are.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Father Coughlin
  503. anon[226] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What could be truly alien, in ethnic sense, would be Sino-Confucian/Taoist schools, with ethnic Chinese studying core curriculum (math, English, …) plus Chinese script, Mandarin language, Chinese history & spiritual/religious Chinese traditions. I wonder why they didn’t try that already.

    Well…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  504. Kronos says:
    @Pincher Martin

    They sure had a tough time trying to kick Nixon around after 1962 (at least for a while.)

  505. @Jack D

    Jews are 2% of the USA’s population and 22-33% of the us supreme court for decades, yet you ask “wha’s up with” the recent CATHOLIC over-representation on that court? Chutzpah IS one of your words for a reason, I guess.

    What a Schande you are.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Jack D
  506. @Harry Baldwin

    Only about 5% of the NYT readership even *knows* the party line. Most of them know most of it, but very few know it as well as any of us does.

  507. @Steve Sailer

    ‘That was the Babylon Bee’s advice to Trump: just let Biden talk for 90 minutes straight.’

    That suggests a really revolutionary solution to our problems.

    Hey: we could do a lot worse than letting a bunch of young, sharp white Christians with a sense of humor run everything. Hard to see them organizing firing squads, anyway.

  508. SC Rebel says:
    @John Johnson

    Not only that, Harris isn’t very popular. If she were, she wouldn’t have done so horribly in the primaries.

    Also there is significant chatter that some blacks don’t view her as black and aren’t a fan. Tulsi really nailed her on the crime thing.

  509. @RadicalCenter

    Catholic over-representation on the Supreme Court is an interesting oddity.

  510. @Corvinus

    Yat. Though seldom funny. God be with you, Crow.

  511. @Steve Sailer

    The high IQ Protestants were emasculated long ago, or, for the few who weren’t, zoning restrictions were put in to inhibit their ascendance, e.g. application profiles and personal story..

  512. Anon7 says:

    Well Trump has really stepped in it this time.

    I listen to news from Detroit, and they are absolutely crucifying him for not saying, for the millionth time, that he condemns and disavows white suprematist groups.

    Sure, I know why they brought it up. People remember the lie they want to believe. Yes, the Fine People Hoax has been debunked.

    But saying “Sure” wasn’t enough.

    I know Trump didn’t mistake the Chris Wallace show as a debate, and that explains some of his behavior. But I really wonder why he needed to say the most polarizing thing possible.

    I’m wondering if Trump really wants to be president for another four years.. He’s not starting a new party, what will he get between now and 2024 that he hasn’t already done?

  513. D. K. says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Who else, these days, is likely to pass the Republicans’ litmus test of being staunchly pro-life, while also being otherwise acceptable, on both jurisprudential and social grounds? Justice Sotomayor was picked by President Obama for being a “liberal” Hispanic woman; her being a Roman Catholic was simply beside the point, at best. She has been the lone Roman Catholic justice appointed to the Supreme Court by a Democratic president since 1940!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States#Catholic_justices

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  514. @Anon7

    what will he get between now and 2024 that he hasn’t already done?

    I’m sure he’d like to see the facts of the Russia-Collusion hoax fully exposed and the perpetrators brought to justice, if possible. If Biden wins, the whole stinking mess will vanish like it never happened.

    There are a lot of other things I could mention, but surely that’s a priority.

  515. Hibernian says:
    @D. K.

    Truman appointed Sherman Minton, who is in the table of Catholic Justices in your linked Wkipedia article, and Kennedy appointed Byron White, who, for whatever reason, isn’t.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @D. K.
  516. Neoconned says:
    @Peter Johnson

    Considering how conservative media has been labeling him basically a human meat puppet over the past few months i thought Biden did surprisingly well.

    Trump seemed off kilter & focused more on Coronavirus whatever instead of on jobs & the economy.

    Joe came off as surprisingly tough.

    I give the win to Trump but the victory was almost phyrric in nature.

  517. Neoconned says:
    @Tusk

    You truly think his doctors jacked him up on amphetamines?

  518. @Jack D

    My point (which you totally missed) is that the anti-Semite sees the hidden Jewish hand in everything. His milk turned sour – the Jews done it.

    Not everything. I’ve yet to see anyone at this HBD-friendly site, even among the “anti-Semites”, dare assert that Bryan was right and the ACLU wrong.

    Lawrence Auster might have. Wasn’t he laughed off Steve’s private list?

  519. @Hibernian

    Truman appointed Sherman Minton, who is in the table of Catholic Justices in your linked Wkipedia article, and Kennedy appointed Byron White, who, for whatever reason, isn’t.

    Pierce Butler, whose memorial boulevard I used to drive on, was nominated by Warren Harding. He dissented in the Carrie Buck case. He might not have been the best of St Paul’s three Supreme Court justices, but he was the most humane.

    He was opposed by Robert LaFollete and the Ku Klux Klan. These progressives didn’t trust him!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce_Butler_(justice)#Nomination_and_confirmation

  520. Cato says:
    @John Johnson

    I suspect that liberalism is in many ways a victim of its own success. The people making the decisions at the top got there by virtue signaling and showing the right feelings. Introverted and calculating Whites that normally make these decisions are no longer welcome. Not enough feels.

    Marketing and Public Relations people are increasingly running America. These people want to shape the story, but don’t know how to make real change. It’s not just a malaise of liberalism, it’s a general characteristic of the zeitgeist. For example, GE collapsed because of this (nice book about GE: “Lights Out”).

  521. @anon

    This is the tertiary education level. I was more thinking about age grade 4 to 12 level (elementary, high schools etc.)

  522. anon[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tusk

    He’s wearing dark contacts to hide that his pupils are dilated from stimulants.

    Hmmm, what if those actually were his pupils?

    Never mind the drug test, let’s just have a field sobriety test before the next “debate”.

  523. D. K. says:
    @Hibernian

    ***

    Other Catholic justices included Pierce Butler (appointed 1923) and Frank Murphy (appointed 1940). Sherman Minton, appointed in 1949, was a Protestant during his time on the Court. To some, however, his wife’s Catholic faith implied a “Catholic seat”.[90] Minton joined his wife’s church in 1961, five years after he retired from the Court.[91] Minton was succeeded by a Catholic, however, when President Eisenhower appointed William J. Brennan to that seat. Eisenhower sought a Catholic to appoint to the Court—in part because there had been no Catholic justice since Murphy’s death in 1949, and in part because Eisenhower was directly lobbied by Cardinal Francis Spellman of the Archdiocese of New York to make such an appointment.[92] Brennan was then the lone Catholic justice until the appointment of Antonin Scalia in 1986, and Anthony Kennedy in 1988.

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States#Catholic_justices

    ***

    White died of pneumonia on April 15, 2002 at the age of 84. He was the last living Warren Court Justice, and died the day before the fortieth anniversary of his swearing in as a Justice. From his death until the retirement of Sandra Day O’Connor in 2006, there were no living former Justices.[3]

    His remains are interred at All Souls Walk at the St. John’s Cathedral in Denver.[43]

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_White#Later_years_and_death

    ***

    Saint John’s Cathedral in Denver, Colorado, United States is the seat of the bishop and the cathedral of the Episcopal Diocese of Colorado and part of the Episcopal Church in the United States. Construction began in 1909,[2] the first service held in the cathedral in 1911, and it was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1975.[1]

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_St._John_in_the_Wilderness

    Q.E.D.

  524. @John Johnson

    Adopting a few foreign or disabled kids is what large and wealthy Christian families will do.

    Could be. But, there is something viscerally wrong about it.
    Except foreign means a small kid of your own race.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  525. @Anonymous Jew

    There’s some hope if the party pivots populist in mass. But they’re too stupid to do that.

    Brexit was just that, wasn’t it?

    (And look at Denmark’s – social democratic! – immigration and Muslim-critic president (!) Mette Frederiksen. And at Austria’s chancellor Sebastian Kurz (or at Switzerland).

  526. @Anonymous

    Yep, Trump is neither nice nor overly civilized (that’s the hardest part to digest), but he gives the impression, he knows where he’s headin’. I would not even mention Joe Biden. I do think what is done with him is elderly abuse (Katie Halper on the podcast Useful Idiots).

  527. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    My point (which you totally missed) is that the anti-Semite sees the hidden Jewish hand in everything. His milk turned sour – the Jews done it… Down deep, they think the same way as blacks – their people have no agency (even if one of their own is President) – anything that happens is done TO them by someone else – whitey, the Jews, Asians, etc.

    First of all, this is not an issue of “agency,” which is again a deflection. It is, rather, one of comparative influence and power.

    Most of those who criticize the Jewish elite (or Jews in America) don’t do so, because they think Jews are having weekly evil cabal meetings and making all the bad things happen. That’s the caricature Jews paint of the critics to silence and dismiss them (in addition to more sinister attacks on the livelihood and reputations of the critics).

    They do so, because they correctly feel that Jews exercise enormous influence and power on the rest of the society despite being only 2% of the population and that such influence has been detrimental to the rest of the society on balance (but of course of great benefit to the Jews themselves). In other words, the criticism is that the Jews are a tiny but highly dominant elite that shows little noblesse oblige (unlike the WASP elite that preceded them).

    As for this grouping of “whitey, the Jews, Asians,” forgive me if the sudden embrace of solidarity on your part seems a bit too convenient for the moment and appears rather contrary to your earlier whitewashing of the scale of Jewish power in America as well as slurs against Catholics (and your occasional deflections toward Asians too).

    You are all “Hey, forget about the Jews! They are harmless. What about these Pope-serving Catholics or dastardly Asians, huh?” when people criticize the Jews, but then when several of us see through this “him and you fight” routine, it’s suddenly “Hey, we are all victims together of those, other whiners, right, guys?”

  528. Twinkie says:
    @Hibernian

    Also Midwestern Mayflower descendants who are often part German, part Scandinavian, or, horror of horrors, part Irish.

    These are my wife’s people (she has exactly that mix) and are thus my kinsfolk by marriage. If I may engage in some stereotypes, they are reserved, sober, and hardworking. They are the best tillers of the land and make great rulers of a nation, provided the nation is stable. They welcomed me into their midst and gave me love as one of theirs – I shall never forget that.

    Southern Anglo-Celts

    These are the people I prefer for companionship and among whose children mine were raised. They are quarrelsome, melodious (the best music in America), distrusting of outsiders, and rebellious to authority. Definitely not the kind of people you want as rulers of a nation, but what stubborn soldiers they make. They would be the last to fall to the Dictatorship of the Woketariat, if they fell at all.

    Northeastern John Lindsay/Bill Weld/Christine Todd Whitman types

    Along with Jews and Asians, these are the people with whose children I went to university. I spit in their general direction.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  529. @Anonymous

    You are missing the point completely.

    If it is an acceptable debate tactic to accuse an opponent of holding a policy position that you know perfectly well, and every informed person also knows is not true, then what does that say about the nature of a democracy that depends on candidates offering up an election manifesto, if the whole process is ultimately meaningless?

    And what is the purpose of debates if not a mutual exchange of ideas about what the powers of the federal government might be used for over the next few years?

  530. Corn says:
    @Neoconned

    I wish I could say yes, but I did not.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
  531. Jack D says:
    @RadicalCenter

    That’s precisely my point. How many times has it been pointed out here that Jews are overrepresented on the Court? Hundreds or thousands. You sure don’t need me to remind you of this – I would say that’s well taken care of already.

    But Catholic overrepresentation (while OTOH since Catholics are more numerous their overrepresentation is not as disproportionate to their % of the population but OTOH they constitute an absolute majority of the Justices) is not a thing here and is never discussed. And when I bring it up everyone tells me to shut up as if we were at a BLM meeting and I had mentioned black crime.

    While there may be a innocuous explanation for Catholic overrepresentation on the Court (just as there is an innocuous one for Jewish representation), innocuous explanations for the Jews don’t seem to be in favor around here, but somehow Catholics get the benefit of the doubt. More than the benefit of the doubt since you are not even allowed to discuss the reasons without being shut down.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  532. Jack D says:
    @Father Coughlin

    Yes, I’ve checked with my bosses in Tel Aviv and I’ve told them that their dastardly plan has utterly failed. Jus’ Sayin’ has edumacated all of us with his tinfoil hat version of history and the scales have fallen from the goyim’s eyes. Curses, foiled again!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  533. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie

    They are quarrelsome, melodious (the best music in America), distrusting of outsiders, and rebellious to authority. Definitely not the kind of people you want as rulers of a nation,

    It sounds like you are describing African-Americans. Maybe American blacks and Southern Anglo-Celts are more like each other than either is willing to admit.

    PS Charlie Parker wants to have a word with you about who has the best music. Bluegrass is very good but I detest “country music” with the fake cowboy hats.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  534. nebulafox says:
    @ScarletNumber

    Hank Hill would win in a landslide if he ran against Biden and Trump. You know, an animated character.

    Just a nice massive stick up the ass of the Good People that took a nation with unprecedented power and potential and drive it into the groud over 30 years. Music to my ears. Trump is the next best option to spit in their collective faces, buffoon that he is. “We are not taking you, no matter what.” That is what they must hear.

  535. @Kent Nationalist

    No, he is wearing radio with a skull microphone.
    It’s like Spock’s Brain episode.

    [MORE]

  536. @Anon7

    Are you going to tell us what Trump said?

  537. @Jack D

    TBH, the evidence for Biden’s senility is scant.

    Agree. Biden has been tirelessly battling the Covid which has killed 200 million Americans by wearing a mask since the Civil War. Could a senile person do all that? C’mon man.

  538. Ragno says:

    Because I’m an American – in the weary, been-here-a-thousand-times-already sense of the word – I refused to watch. I expected three things:

    1- empty theatrics from both sides

    2-Chris Wallace would double-cross the public and act as Trump’s inquisitor rather than an impartial moderator

    3-Trump would be forced to denounce “white supremacy”, which by now simply means “white people not affiliated with antifa”

    and I presume all three boxes were ticked.

    I’ve even avoided the “analysis” – since I already knew who I’d be voting for, and no flourish of talking-head theatrics was going to change my mind. Besides – again, because I’m an American – I naturally presumed far too much of this would revolve around the politicizing of a disease without Wallace ever stopping the fireworks to remind the audience that Presidents don’t “fight diseases”….local politicians do. But they all mysteriously cease to exist whenever the tympani-rolls signal a new death total.

    And I further presume that Wallace never bothered to point out the many shitlib pundits and (cough) ‘personalities’, well over a year ago, famously hoping for some sort of an economic collapse as a surefire way to be rid of the President.

  539. Anon[269] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kylie

    “ Seems to me that what passes for ‘thinking’ in women is a combination of feels, calling their besties to find out what they ‘think’, and counting heads/sticking a wet finger up in the wind..

    In all fairness, I know some conservative women who seek out source material and bone up on facts. ”

    Could you provide some figures to back the first opinion? Maybe a couple of links to serious publications? Even a PEW poll? Thank you.

  540. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    OTOH since Catholics are more numerous their overrepresentation is not as disproportionate to their % of the population

    You have one of the explanations right there. Catholic “over-representation“ pales in comparison to Jewish one. Moreover, Christians, as whole, are not over-represented.

    they constitute an absolute majority of the Justices

    Yet Catholics, let alone Christians, never vote as a single bloc as Jewish justices do.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Jack D
  541. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    It sounds like you are describing African-Americans. Maybe American blacks and Southern Anglo-Celts are more like each other than either is willing to admit.

    Of course, except there is a significant IQ difference among others.

    There is a rather divergent set of consequences when one group has a low IQ-high impulsivity while another has a high IQ-high impulsivity combination.

    Just because, say, Jews, might describe (and technically be right) that both Southern Anglo-Celtics and blacks have lower IQ than they do doesn’t mean the latter two are similar, let alone the same. To suggest that would be pure sophistry.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  542. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    Yes, I’ve checked with my bosses in Tel Aviv

    Your bosses are in NYC and DC. I’d prefer that you were a declared agent of Tel Aviv. That would be more honest and transparent.

    Curses, foiled again!

    This seems to reveal more than you let on.

  543. Hibernian says:
    @Twinkie

    Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas tend to vote as a block, sometimes joined by Roberts, sometimes not. Sotomayor is possibly the leftmost Justice, voting with the conservatives only when all the other liberals do, slapping down the 9th Circuit when they’ve done things totally beyond the pale. (Unanimous reversals of the 9th have been common and the decisions were often written by liberals, often Ginsberg.) Some decisions are 8-0 with Sotomayor as the only dissenter.

  544. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie

    Maybe if Republicans would appoint Jews to the Court then they wouldn’t vote as a bloc. The most reliable guide to voting on the Court (esp. in recent years when it has become more politicized) is which party appointed the Justice, not religion.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  545. MEH 0910 says:


    [MORE]

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  546. @MEH 0910

    Adams says Trump

    I first listened to an Adams podcast on the recommendation of a commenter here and it wasn’t bad, so I added it to my subscriptions. After a bit though his smugness, effete’ mannerisms (“and you’re blocked..”), and out-sized sense of his own importance wore thin and I stopped listening regularly.

    Adams is basically a childless, age 60+ cat lady.

  547. @Jack D

    Maybe if Republicans would appoint Jews to the Court then they wouldn’t vote as a bloc. The most reliable guide to voting on the Court (esp. in recent years when it has become more politicized) is which party appointed the Justice, not religion.

    That’s true, but misleading.

    15 of the last 19 Justices have been put on the High Court by Republican Presidents. Of those 19, nearly half of the GOP-nominated Justices (both Catholics and Protestants) have slid over to the left in their voting patterns once put on the bench, and in some cases slid completely over to the left, but no Democrat-nominated Jewish Justices have slid over to the right.

    In several cases, the GOP-nominated Justices have slid completely over to the left. In effect, they became Democrat-nominated Justices. Brennan (Catholic), Blackmun, Stevens, Souter and – I suspect soon – John Roberts (Catholic) are all examples of GOP-nominated who became liberal icons on the High Court.

    Jewish Justices, on the other hand, stay united on the left. At least in the modern era, they don’t stray.

  548. D. K. says:
    @Jack D

    Which conservative, strict-constructionist, pro-life, early-middle-aged Jewish judges from the circuit courts should President Trump have nominated to become Supreme Court justices, in these last few years, in lieu of the two Roman Catholics and one former Roman Catholic whom he has nominated?

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Lot
  549. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    Maybe if Republicans would appoint Jews to the Court then they wouldn’t vote as a bloc.

    Give us some suggestions.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Lot
  550. @Steve Sailer

    Agreed, Steve. Both the Jewish overrepresentation and the Catholic overrepresentation are interesting, if unfair oddities.

    We should stop putting disproportionate numbers of Catholics on the Court, for sure. It’s just that Jews have benefitted from a much more wildly disproportionate representation on the Court.

    Speaking of tiny religious minorities in the USA, when we will ever see a Mormon on the Court? They constitute two percent of the population, just as numerous as Jews. Seems like they are due.

    https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

    And shouldn’t we eventually have just one Eastern Orthodox Christian on the Supreme Court?
    (somewhere Rod Dreher’s ears just perked up 😉

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  551. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha

    you laugh…but you told me you have no descendants …so you are garbage to me.

  552. @RadicalCenter

    I wonder how different things would be if there had ever been an ethnically Jewish President, the way Disraeli was the British Prime Minister 150 years ago.

  553. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    It’s not impossible. European Jews (those not emigrating to Israel) are more likely to right-wing, and what is left of the Russian Jewish community is generally pro-Putin. And American politics are getting more European, especially on the right.

    But it’s deeply unlikely for several reasons, among them the sheer degree of influence that older Jews hold, economically or in the media, and how deep their self-identification as victims and underdogs go, despite this having no basis in reality in 2020. Most prominently, the US does not have an invariably anti-Semitic Muslim underclass concentrated in urban centers to wake up American Jews to the reality that The Diverse view them at best as a particularly affluent brand of white person. Hispanics and Asians might not be hostile to Jews, but they do lack the over-the-top Judeophilia found among legacy whites and are more likely to call a spade a spade.

    (You’d think that since Old America has probably been the most friendly society to Jews this side of Casimir’s Poland, if not Cyrus’s Persia, tampering with demographics in the name of tolerance is a pretty dumb move. Matter of fact, this applies to blacks, too. These people going on about a morally superior New America seriously think importing millions of foreigners from cultures that never had decades of guilt conditioning embedded into them is going to be a solution to the supposed deep racism of America. Either they aren’t as bright as commonly thought, or this is a cover for other agendas and they are far more cynical than commonly thought. Probably both.)

    >As annoying and silly as a young Korean female SJW is, is that demographic what’s driving the leftist movement?

    I think young females in general are, if not the critical component, a non-trivial one. Race might be hogging the headlines, but I suspect gender is going to be an equally salient political divide going forward, if not moreso.

    It takes a very special kind of “male” (I say that in the same sense that a eunuch was male In The Olden Days) to be genuinely attracted to a political party that reeks of the HR department. The gender gap is particularly pronounced amongst whites, but Hispanic and Asian young men, too, are significantly more likely to be open to Trump than their female counterparts. If you expand that to include the politically disengaged and cycnical, I suspect the gap would increase further. Even among blacks: normal men don’t like being treated like defective versions of women by woke coastal elites and are unlikely to be attracted to an overtly feminine political culture. The Biden campaign has figured this out and is trying to get black women to pressure their men into voting.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/18/biden-black-latino-voters-417473

    Marriage leads to ideological and political convergence. But people are taking longer to get married and spending more time as single young men/women, with all the differences in socialization you’d expect.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  554. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Yes, just because Twinkie might describe (and technically be right) that both Jews and Chinese have higher IQ doesnt mean the latter are similar, let alone the same as “us”. To suggest that would be pure sophistry:

    Twinkie – your people are not “our” people. You know it and we know it

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  555. Lot says:
    @Twinkie

    Douglas Ginsberg was nominated by Reagan but blocked over smoking marijuana in the 1970s.

    He is Jewish and remains on the DC Circuit into old age as a completely reliable and brilliant conservative. He also engages, like Justice Thomas, in as much right wing political activism as is seemly for a federal judge. He would have been better than Kennedy and similar to Scalia, Thomas and Alito.

    The smartest circuit judge is Richard Posner, who was nominated by Reagan to and immediately took charge of the Seventh Circuit, and for decades. If he had made it to the Supreme Court, he would have similarly dominated it. I think that would be a good thing, as I agree with nearly everything Posner writes that I have read, much of it fully based and redpilled.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Pincher Martin
  556. Lot says:
    @D. K.

    Trump’s supreme court lists, which he uses for all 3 of his picks, had 1 jew on it but not a circuit judge.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Engel

    You are correct, there are about zero promising Gen X Alex Kozinskis on the federal bench.

  557. Twinkie says:
    @Anonymous

    Twinkie – your people are not “our” people. You know it and we know it

    I’m not Chinese. Try again.

  558. Twinkie says:
    @Lot

    Two judges are not exactly a deep pool from which to draw.

    • Replies: @Lot
  559. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    It’s not impossible.

    No one said it was impossible.

    European Jews (those not emigrating to Israel)

    And that’s a reason right there too. They have a backup country, in which they can be genuine rightists (some going over the top and playing colonial master race in formerly Arab areas). I know several Conservative Jews from my youth of rightish temperaments who made Aliyah and became very rightist Israelis.

    Hispanics and Asians might not be hostile to Jews, but they do lack the over-the-top Judeophilia found among legacy whites and are more likely to call a spade a spade.

    Partly agree. But some Chinese seem to hold a high regard for, and intermarry, Jews in America with notable frequency (e.g. Amy Chua and her social milieu, which she described as having lots of Jewish-Chinese couples). Highly Christian Koreans and Filipinos are much less likely to do so while Indians have very low out marriage rates, period. Hispanics are usually of too low socio-economic profiles to mix with Jews much. I think blacks usually harbor the lowest opinion of Jews on average.

    I do think that what you call “over-the-top Judeophilia” is most prominent among liberal Christian (Mainline) whites (Evangelicals tend to evince very strong pro-Israel tendencies, but are more ambivalent about Jews as an ethny).

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  560. Lot says:
    @Twinkie

    It’s zero now.

    Reagan and the Bushes had plenty, I just described the best two.

    Two more are Steve’s neighbors, but now too old: Ikuta and the Koz.

  561. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Yeah, I have noticed that with the Chinese, too. But it does not strike me as the same thing as what goes on with liberal Christian-lite whites. They admire them precisely because they are a rich and powerful group.

  562. @Lot

    Posner is slightly right of center – mostly on economics – but he’s not a stalwart judicial conservative. Had he been placed on the Supreme Court, he only would’ve dominated it as a moderate right-of-center judge, most likely in the sort of way that John Roberts is seeking to do now.

    I’m less familiar with Ginsberg’s judicial record, but given your description of Posner, I’m treating your description of Reagan’s former nominee to the High Court with skepticism.

    Posner writes a lot and is frequently interesting, but he’s a bit of a loose cannon ideologically, too. Conservatives would have no reason to trust him as a Justice. Had he been nominated, he most likely would’ve turned on them in the way that many GOP-nominated Justices eventually turn on the movement and in a way that liberal Jewish Justices never turn on their movement.

    • Replies: @Lot
  563. Lot says:
    @Pincher Martin

    “but he’s not a stalwart judicial conservative.”

    Find a liberal decision from Posner then. He is the most prolific judge in US history, so there should be plenty.

    In his last few years he mocked Scalia’s originalism theory and became somewhat less of a libertarian, but this doesn’t change the fact that he’s objectively the most influential conservative judge of the postwar era.

    You think a guy who wrote this wouldn’t have been awesome on the Supreme Court?

    “ The achievement lag in black males is troublesome from a social standpoint, as it seems correlated with definite social pathologies, such as enormous overrepresentation in criminal activities. Moreover, it is a matter of a lower mean rather than less variance. If and to the extent that that lower mean is a result of lower IQ, not much can be done because IQ has a strong genetic component”

    This aside was part of a larger blog post about male-female differences in intelligence.

    https://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2006/07/womens-academic-performance–comment-by-posner.html

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  564. Find a liberal decision from Posner then. He is the most prolific judge in US history, so there should be plenty.

    That’s easy. His two decisions on gay marriage (Wolf v Walker & Baskin v. Bogan) which ran contrary to Posner’s writings in his book Sex and Reason where he clearly wrote that gay marriage had no Constitutional standing.

    Or how about Posner’s comments in 2012 about the GOP making him less conservative. He made those comments before Trump, the year the anodyne Mitt Romney was the party’s nominee.

    From an NPR article:

    Posner expressed admiration for President Ronald Reagan and the economist Milton Friedman, two pillars of conservatism. But over the past 10 years, Posner said, “there’s been a real deterioration in conservative thinking. And that has to lead people to re-examine and modify their thinking.”

    “I’ve become less conservative since the Republican Party started becoming goofy,” he said.

    Ask yourself why a judge would change his judicial philosophy because a party became more “goofy.”

    Posner also defended John Robert’s controversial decision on Obamacare.

    Posner, who was appointed to the appeals court by Reagan, speculated that the leaks about the deliberations over the national health care law — which are apparently designed to discredit Chief Justice John Roberts’ opinion upholding the law — would backfire. “I think these right-wingers who are blasting Roberts are making a very serious mistake,”….

    “Because if you put [yourself] in his position … what’s he supposed to think? That he finds his allies to be a bunch of crackpots? Does that help the conservative movement? I mean, what would you do if you were Roberts? All the sudden you find out that the people you thought were your friends have turned against you, they despise you, they mistreat you, they leak to the press. What do you do? Do you become more conservative? Or do you say, ‘What am I doing with this crowd of lunatics?’ Right? Maybe you have to re-examine your position.”

    Note that Posner’s negative comments about contemporary conservatism don’t really focus on the law, but are more social commentary that has nothing to do with the law. Most judicial conservatives and conservative legal scholars have no idea what Roberts was doing with his weird interpretation upholding the ACA.

    Posner also wrote this line in 2009 in a blog piece called “Is the Conservative Movement Losing Steam?”: “By the fall of 2008, the face of the Republican Party had become Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber. Conservative intellectuals had no party.”

    It’s disgusting that he would take a cheap shot at Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber just to score points against conservatives. Isn’t it his duty as a leading conservative intellectual to reinvigorate intellectual conservatism?

    There’s a lot more. How about the evil of voter ID laws. I didn’t know they were evil, but apparently they are evil.

    Posner is – and was – not trustworthy. Had he secured a position on the High Court, he would have tacked left just as John Roberts has tacked left. He would NOT have been a stalwart conservative in the mold of a Scalia or Thomas or Alito. As a conservative I want a judge on the court I can depend on, not an ideological loose cannon whose opinions are scattershot depending on his mood that day.

  565. @Lot

    I replied to you in my post above.

    I also wanted to add that while I agree with Posner about the direction of the GOP – the party as a whole is becoming dumber, and the conservative intellectual movement within the GOP is less impressive than in former days – had I been in Posner’s place I would have seen that as a challenge I had to meet rather than as an excuse to jump ship.

    It’s telling that all it took was Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber to get Posner running towards the exit. He must not have been all that conservative to begin with, but little more than a legal scholar and judge who thought it was cool to turn neoclassical economic thought into law.

    • Replies: @Lot
  566. Lot says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Roberts was right, the ACA is not unconstitutional. He was also right as a political matter, as the Supreme Court overturning it would have resulted in millions losing their insurance and a return to unpopular policies that covered very little and excluded preexisting conditions.

    “in the mold of a Scalia or Thomas or Alito”

    Kav signed onto an opinion that will free potentially thousands of convicted criminals in Louisiana and Oregon who had non-unanimous jury verdicts. Gorsuch wrote a decision that half of Oklahoma is an Indian reservation and the state and local government cannot prosecute Indians on it. ACB adopting Haitians suggests HBD denialism. So you can nitpick on Trump’s nominees too, even though all three are basically the consensus picks of the Fed Society and conservative establishment.

    As for gay marriage, has dropping the issue just as the public support moved into the majority been bad for the GOP? No way to be sure of it, but using it as a wedge against the Democrats 2002-2010 and then not having it used as a wedge against the GOP when gay marriage became popular certainly seems like a good outcome if you are, like me, a partisan Republican who doesn’t much care about the issue.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  567. Yngvar says:
    @utu

    Congress Is Now 3 Times More Jewish Than United States As A Whole

    That must be the infamous ethnic nepotism at work, during the elections. /s

  568. Anonymous[419] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Johnson

    Whatever happens, we have got,
    the President,
    and they have not.

  569. Neoconned says:
    @Corn

    I should have clarified…..you popularized that saying on the isteve message boards.

  570. @Lot

    Roberts was right, the ACA is not unconstitutional. He was also right as a political matter, as the Supreme Court overturning it would have resulted in millions losing their insurance and a return to unpopular policies that covered very little and excluded preexisting conditions.

    Roberts was not put on the court to make that kind of political decision. He was put on the court to interpret the Constitution through the action of judicial review within a conservative framework. Or as he put it in his confirmation hearing, he was put on the court “to call balls and strikes.”

    We now know he lied. His written opinion on the ACA was controversial with everyone. Liberals didn’t sign onto it, even if they agreed with its result, because its reasoning was too odd. And conservatives noted that Roberts abandoned the conservative majority on the court to make up a transparently bullshit legal reason for keeping the ACA.

    …a return to unpopular policies that covered very little and excluded preexisting conditions.

    If they were so unpopular, then the Congress and President should’ve had no problem passing the original legislation with bipartisan support, just as was the case with every other major piece of welfare legislation in contemporary U.S. history.

    Kav signed onto an opinion that will free potentially thousands of convicted criminals in Louisiana and Oregon who had non-unanimous jury verdicts. Gorsuch wrote a decision that half of Oklahoma is an Indian reservation and the state and local government cannot prosecute Indians on it. ACB adopting Haitians suggests HBD denialism. So you can nitpick on Trump’s nominees too, even though all three are basically the consensus picks of the Fed Society and conservative establishment.

    I’ve already noted this problem with Republican-nominated Justices, going back all the way to Eisenhower. About half of the selections eventually become a problem for conservatives. Sometimes, as in the case with Sandra Day O’Connor or Anthony Kennedy, they turn into judicial moderates who stick to conservatives rulings on most cases, but not all of them. But nearly as often, as with Harry Blackmun, John Paul Stevens and David Souter, they turn into liberal heroes.

    Now try and find a similar pattern with the Democrat-nominated Justices. Try to find where a single liberal Justice frequently abandons the liberal consensus on any social issue to turn a 5-4 conservative advantage into a 6-3 conservative advantage or, better yet, balances out some GOP-nominated judge to keep a 5-4 majority when that conservative leaves his judicial comrades. You won’t find it because it never happens.

    As for gay marriage, has dropping the issue just as the public support moved into the majority been bad for the GOP?

    You misunderstand the reason public support for gay marriage moved to a majority.

    Before the High Court ruled on it, countless U.S. states had numerous plebiscites on the issue. It lost comprehensively. Even in California, it lost in 2008 with Obama on the ticket.

    But the courts noticed it was gaining popularity and began ruling for it on specious constitutional grounds, pushing the marginal public support in favor of gay marriage. Why? Because many people assume the Supreme Court has some authority on this issue it did not have. Thus the High Court created the narrow public consensus on gay marriage.

    What right did the judges have to overturn a social custom that the overwhelming majority of people favored, participated in, and which did not invidiously discriminate against anyone? Why didn’t the judges let the issue play out democratically? If the supporters of gay marriage were so confident the tide was in their favor, then they should’ve convinced their fellow Americans to change the law.

    I get why liberals favor judicial interventions in these kinds of issues they have such trouble winning through normal legislative procedures, but conservatives do not and we have a right to nominate the kind of judges who agree with us.

    • Agree: John Regan
    • Replies: @res
  571. res says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Now try and find a similar pattern with the Democrat-nominated Justices. Try to find where a single liberal Justice frequently abandons the liberal consensus on any social issue to turn a 5-4 conservative advantage into a 6-3 conservative advantage or, better yet, balances out some GOP-nominated judge to keep a 5-4 majority when that conservative leaves his judicial comrades. You won’t find it because it never happens.

    Not sure about those specific conditions, but you do see a lot of right shift from 1937 – 1950.

    But that was a long time ago. I think you are basically correct, just pointing out a possible exception.

  572. @res

    I’d be interested in seeing how they came up with their methodology because it runs counter to my impressions of the High Court during the New Deal.

    From 1932 to 1937, the Supreme Court was extremely conservative – at least from our perspective today. It frequently ruled against New Deal policies, enraging FDR. After Roosevelt’s huge 1936 landslide re-election, he threatened to pack the Court. Politically, his threat backfired. But it did have some positive effect for the New Deal. The Supreme Court began to more frequently rule positively on the constitutionality of FDR’s legislation.

    Look at the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. and the conservative swing vote Justice Owen Roberts

    Butler was on the court until 1939. McReynolds until 1941. Sutherland retired in 1938. Van Devanter, whose name I don’t even see on that graph, was on until 1937. (Perhaps it. begins in 1937 rather than 1935.)

    So I’m skeptical of picking 1937 as the first year and then grouping all of FDR’s choices for the High Court just below zero in their first year on the court. Almost all those choices were significantly more liberal than who they replaced.

    *****

    Another problem I have with that graph is that it doesn’t differentiate between economic and social issues. I will admit that contemporary liberal Justices have tended to be more conservative on regulatory and economic issues than on social issues like abortion, immigration, same-sex marriage, equal rights, affirmative action, etc. In that sense, the Reagan Revolution won. Justices like Elena Kagan will occasionally vote for the conservative side of such cases.

    In the 1930s, Justices were viewed by the informed public on their ideology almost solely by their decisions on what I’ll call economic cases. Today we judge them almost solely by how they decide social cases.

    • Replies: @res
  573. @res

    This kind of gets at what I was talking about earlier.

    There were 67 decisions after argument in the term that ended in June. In those cases, the four justices appointed by Democratic presidents voted the same way 51 times, while the five Republican appointees held tight 37 times. And of the 20 cases where the court split 5-4, only seven had the “expected” ideological divide of conservatives over liberals. By the end of the term, each conservative justice had joined the liberals as the deciding vote at least once.

    That dynamic isn’t something that sprang up in the Trump era or with the court’s newest personnel. In the 2014-15 term, with Kennedy at the height of his “swing vote” power —the last full term before Justice Antonin Scalia’s death and resulting year-long vacancy — the four liberals stuck together in 55 of 66 cases, while the four conservatives (not counting Kennedy) voted as a unit in 39.

    If ACB’s nomination is approved by the Senate, Republican presidents will have placed 16 out of the last 20 Justices on the High Court. Yet at no time over the last thirty years has the Court been solidly conservative. And I suspect the same will remain true even if ACB’s nomination sails through.

    To put it in economic terms, Republicans aren’t very productive with their Supreme Court picks. The Democrats are very efficient. What’s remarkable to me, however, is how rarely this is talked about among intelligent conservatives.

    • Replies: @res
  574. res says:
    @Pincher Martin

    From 1932 to 1937, the Supreme Court was extremely conservative – at least from our perspective today. It frequently ruled against New Deal policies, enraging FDR. After Roosevelt’s huge 1936 landslide re-election, he threatened to pack the Court. Politically, his threat backfired. But it did have some positive effect for the New Deal. The Supreme Court began to more frequently rule positively on the constitutionality of FDR’s legislation.

    So I’m skeptical of picking 1937 as the first year and then grouping all of FDR’s choices for the High Court just below zero in their first year on the court. Almost all those choices were significantly more liberal than who they replaced.

    Agreed about there being issues here. Normalizing the values (especially across time!) is hard IMHO.

    If I might try a just story… Can the becoming more conservative after 1937 trend be explained by the 1937 justices running scared after the court packing confrontation and then gradually regaining their independence?

    About picking 1937 as a baseline, it seems to me they should run the analysis with different starting years and see how much that changes the results.

    The seats are grouped by color, so you can see who replaced whom. I think if you look closely you will see that the graph shows FDR’s replacements being more liberal than their predecessors. I think the just below zero (-1 or -2) is an artifact of how liberal those justices were compared to those who came later.

    Another problem I have with that graph is that it doesn’t differentiate between economic and social issues.

    An excellent point. There are 2D versions of this analysis, but they have not gotten the traction of the 1D version. The Martin-Quinn scores are publicly available and updated annually which makes them popular to use.

    This paper has some discussion of using two dimensions to model SCJ ideology.
    https://michaelbailey.georgetown.domains/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/MeasuringIdeology_Jan2016.pdf

    The literature includes three very different approaches to assessing multidimensionality. The first is based on classic multidimensional scaling. Schubert (1965; 1974) uses principle component analysis and related tools and finds two dimensions characterize judicial voting from the 1940s to the 1960s, dimensions he calls political and economic liberalism. Multi-dimensional scaling fell out of favor, in part because the technique led some back to unidimensional models (e.g. Grofman and Brazill 2002) and in part because the approach produces scales that require analysts to speculate about what the substantive underlying the scales actually refers to.

    Recently, scholars have revived interest in such techniques and found some interesting patterns. Fischman and Jacobi (2015) applied multi-dimensional scaling techniques to the Roberts Court and found that justices not only split along a standard left-right continuum (with Ginsburg, Kagan, Sotomayor, and Breyer on the left and Roberts, Alito, Scalia, and Thomas on the right), but also divided along a legalism-pragmatism dimension (with Breyer and Alito on the pragmatic side and Ginsburg, Scalia and Thomas on the legalistic side). This second dimension explains less variation, but can be important, especially on cases involving the Confrontation Clause, the right to a jury trial, and the Fourth Amendment. Edelman, Klein and Lindquist (2012) used multi-dimensional scaling techniques to help uncover when the court acts consensually, finding that ideology is not a sufficient explanation for consensual behavior on the court.

    There is also huge variation across justices and concepts, however, suggesting that the additional dimensions are highly idiosyncratic. This implies that while the court appointment process may be relatively predictable with regard to underlying policy preferences of justices, it appears to be more variable with regard to the additional legal influences on justices. Given the very small size of the court, this means that the court may indeed act as a wild card in the operation of the U.S. shared powers system.

    And a paper focused on the second dimension.
    The Second Dimension of the Supreme Court
    https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3648&context=wmlr

    This observation is quite interesting.

    In two dimensions, different patterns of coalitions emerge: in the second dimension, it is the Chief Justice and Justice Sotomayor, not Justice Kennedy, who sit at the median of the Court and decide the balance of power.

    Here is how they describe the second dimension.

    In a crude way, the second dimension captures the difference between Justices Scalia and Alito or the difference between Justices Ginsburg and Breyer. In this Section, we observe that many of the second dimension cases reflect a divide between pragmatism and legalism.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  575. res says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Agreed. In case I wasn’t clear before, I think your observation is very much on target for the modern (say post-1965?) court.

    My sense is that Trump is laying the foundation for a right-center originalist Supreme Court. That is a dangerous strategy given your observation of justices creeping leftward.

    ACB is a bit of a special case. Between the woman, replacing very liberal Ginsburg, and election year issues I think it would be hard to get a conservative justice through now. To some extent that seems like a missed opportunity with Gorsuch and Kavanaugh (BTW, it is interesting to reread the articles during their confirmations going on about how conservative they were).

    My sense is if ACB goes through we will not have a reliably conservative court, but we should have a more reliable not extremely liberal court. Roughly speaking given her confirmation, I see three liberals, four center/lean conservative, and two conservatives. IMHO not such a bad place to be as long as there is not too much leftward creep. Much better than the previous four liberal (all below -1.5 on that graph) court where it only took one defection to permit all kinds of craziness. So much pressure to find/create a single defector.

    What do you think? I get the sense you have deeper knowledge in this area than I do. Any idea if Trump’s picks in the appeals courts are similar, or are they more conservative?

    P.S. Any thoughts on how “originalist” fits in with the 2D representation we are talking about above? Is it similar to “legalist”?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  576. @res

    My sense is if ACB goes through we will not have a reliably conservative court, but we should have a more reliable not extremely liberal court. Roughly speaking given her confirmation, I see three liberals, four center/lean conservative, and two conservatives. IMHO not such a bad place to be as long as there is not too much leftward creep. Much better than the previous four liberal (all below -1.5 on that graph) court where it only took one defection to permit all kinds of craziness. So much pressure to find/create a single defector.

    I’m not sure about this. I think Roberts is a threat to go full liberal, a la David Souter or John Paul Stevens. And I think he would do it for no other reason than to protect the High Court from becoming viewed by the Democrats as a tool for the conservative agenda.

    Gorsuch, as you suggest, is another potential problem, especially when we consider that he replaced Scalia, who was one of the most conservative Justices in U.S. history. (I’ll give Kavanaugh more time. He’s probably still shell-shocked from the treatment he received.)

    To cite one prominent example, I would be surprised if ACB’s ascension to the High Court led to the end of Roe v Wade, as some liberals are suggesting might happen. I believe that some combination of GOP-nominated Justices will find some way to save it.

    What do you think? I get the sense you have deeper knowledge in this area than I do. Any idea if Trump’s picks in the appeals courts are similar, or are they more conservative?

    I really don’t know. I’m just surprised there isn’t more thought put into this by the conservative intellectual movement. I would like to know why we can’t nominate more reliable conservatives. The consistency of the leakage over the last several decades makes me suspect that GOP elites deliberately sabotage conservative efforts in ways that even most informed conservatives don’t fully understand.

    The perennial cry of the GOP is that we need to elect Republicans in order to put conservatives on the court and then when we get the opportunities we don’t put them there.

  577. @res

    If I might try a just story… Can the becoming more conservative after 1937 trend be explained by the 1937 justices running scared after the court packing confrontation and then gradually regaining their independence?

    Yes. I think that’s a major part of what happened. The politicians, including many FDR supporters, protected the Supreme Court from FDR’s court-packing scheme, but the move still scared enough Justices that they began to adapt their rulings. Soon afterwards, the conservative Justices began retiring/dying off and FDR was able to nominate his own justices. The New Deal also petered out; by the end of FDR’s second term, national security issues began to dominate his administration. FDR also got more nominees on the court. By 1940, FDR had installed five Justices on the court, and by 1943 he had put eight out of nine on the court.

    Yet that graph suggests that the FDR-dominated court was slightly right of center with a couple of major exceptions (Douglas and Black).

    Thanks for the link. I’m going to read it and mull it over.

  578. Lagertha says:
    @PhysicistDave

    So adore you, Physicist Dave – you’ve always understood my histrionic posts.

    I took a mental health break in the beautiful low-country of the Eastcoast these weeks…visiting my bf who retired closer to family. I so hate what is going on in the USA, but I was warmed by the boat parades, and, many barns’ roofs painted with TRUMP. I regret that I did not have enough time to finally, and I mean finally, see the wild ponies of Chincoteague…it is sort of, a long held obsession for me. Good God but Saturday and Sunday past were beautiful!

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