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From Twenty-Five Years in a Waggon in South Africa: Sport and Travel in South Africa by Andrew A. Anderson, 1887:

… At Narukus, on the Nosop river, I came upon a family of Bushmen, ten in number, of a different type to those I had in my service, evidently a lower caste. They have no forehead; the wool on their heads comes close down to the eyes, and the head falling back like a baboon; projecting mouth, small nose, a sort of hair or wool all over the chest, arms, and legs; their eyes are small and restless, watching every movement that is going on; the tallest man did not exceed four feet four; their skin was of a reddish-brown. A few old skins, broken ostrich eggs, and bows and arrows, seemed all they possessed of worldly goods.

They would have decamped and hid in the bush, but I sent some of my Bushmen and brought them back. I asked my own boys, if they were their brothers, meaning of the same race; they repudiated the idea, and said they were monkeys not men, and told me there were very few ever seen, it was very seldom they ever came upon any; they eat carrion. They are evidently a distinct race from the Masara Bushmen who are largely distributed over the desert. One of the women had a baby not much bigger than a half-grown kitten; all of them were destitute of clothing.

It’s not uncommon for there to exist legends of little people who used to be here: e.g., Hawaii’s implausible Menehune (it’s really hard to get to Hawaii).

But this curious account in the middle of an otherwise level-headed memoir of tiny, hairy, foreheadless little people in southern Africa in the mid-19th Century is strange even by the standards of little people legends: the Bushmen who Anderson employs don’t offer a name for them, say they are very rare, and mostly seem annoyed by them for racist reasons.

And I haven’t heard of anybody mentioning them since.

The simplest explanation would be that they didn’t exist, that Anderson is either punching up his book with fiction or perhaps he encountered a family deformed for some medical reason such as inbreeding.

 
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  1. The gods must be crazy.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Not Raul

    Great movie, Raul (Not). I wonder if you could remake that one today. Reverse the races?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  2. Wednesday, 17th, 4 a.m.—Sent my driver out and went myself to look for water; no signs of any. Treked three miles and outspanned to give oxen a feed on green young grass, as they have not had water since Monday afternoon. Went without coffee this morning to reserve what little we have for our mid-day meal, then it will be exhausted. This is the first time for twelve years I have been without water by my waggon

    Is there no limit to the ghastly sacrifices a man must endure for the Empire???

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    @AndrewR

    Coffee? No self-respecting British explorer would touch the disgusting beverage. It was always tea.
    If the British had been interested in coffee, they would have conquered Brazil, not India.
    So Anderson was obviously a republican or some other crank.

    Replies: @Graham, @YetAnotherAnon

  3. • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Bill Jones

    Thanks.

    Too bad there's no citation though.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @Bill Jones

    Wait 'til ya see .gov's murder tally for the 21st century - with assistance by big pHARMa.

    Democide/hemoclysm of the 20th century links:
    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/LINKS.HTM

    21st century clottery losers:

    Vaxecution testimony:
    https://palexander.substack.com/archive?sort=new

    Ongoing roster of "those who died suddenly":
    https://markcrispinmiller.substack.com/

    More on the vaxpocalypse/pHARMa-holodomor:

    THE COVID BLOG™ - OFFICIAL BLOG OF COVID LEGAL USA™. VACCINES ARE THE LEADING CAUSE OF COINCIDENCES. STAY VIGILANT. https://thecovidblog.com/

    From the UK: https://expose-news.com/
    & https://www.saveusnow.org.uk/covid-vaccine-scientific-proof-lethal/

    From Germany: https://www.eugyppius.com/

    Money is a part, though not all, of it:
    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2021/05/12/pandemic-follow-the-real-money-the-unthinkable-amount-of-money/

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Bill Jones

    You can bet that each government murder was more expensive than each unsolved private murder.

  4. A fair number of explorer/settler accounts have weird encounters in them. A lot tend to be about catching a glimpse of someone/thing. The natives usually tell a story, which probably isn’t true.

  5. If these unidentified foreheadless little people (F.L.P) were really not humans, how could the Bushmen in the employ of Anderson bring them to him? No human could ever persuade a troupe of apes to come with him to meet his chief. They did not run away, but came (willingly or unwillingly) to meet Anderson. That means the Bushmen told the FLP something, which they were able to understand, and they were also able to understand that running away could have serious consequences. This shows it was highly unlikely that they were apes or other human species.

  6. They were about to walk into Mordor.

  7. I’m sure that Dr David Kelly would have been able to point to modern instances of making a story more interesting to the public by the addition of spice. If he hadn’t, er, …killed himself in a very creative and totally credible manner.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/aug/12/bbc.iraqdossier

  8. @Bill Jones
    https://cdn.locals.com/images/posts/596109/596109_qiepm131lyuhxip_full.jpeg

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Thanks.

    Too bad there’s no citation though.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Almost Missouri

    I couldn't find one on the anon post where I stumbled across the thing.
    I slap them up here as a baseline.

  9. We have all seen that photograph in biological textbooks of the African village where everyone makes the Spock sign with their deformed toes. Africa is the land of inbreeding as well as the land of disease. And what disease and inbreeding doesn’t do they effect with jewelry. One day God will demand of us, when you were alive, why didn’t you conquer and nurture Africa? What was ever done to you, that you would allow the African to be governed by an African?

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @J.Ross

    The answer to that question is easy. Joseph Conrad wrote a book it.

    Tropical disease.

  10. Anon[401] • Disclaimer says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_de_Orellana

    Francisco de Orellana was a member of a team sent by Pizarro to investigate the eastern side of the Andes. The project was a bit of a disaster, resulting in a few of the surviving members accidentally discovering the source of the Amazon, floating down the entire length of the River in homemade boats to the Atlantic, and hitching a ride on a ship back to Spain, while their fellow conquistadors in Peru wondered what the hell happened to them.

    Orellana, being literate, wrote up a crazy travelogue that until recently was regarded as fiction, but is now thought to mostly be true, but filtered through the eyes of a guy whose background made it hard for him to interpret what he was seeing. He wrote about a tribe of female warriors, not true, and also about hundreds of miles of cultivated riverbank organized in a kingdom, now thought to be true.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    @Anon

    The BBC “Horizon” Science Programme aired an interesting episode in 2002 looking at groundworks which appear to provide a basis on which to give credence to Orellana’s claims to have seen extensive, prosperous settlements in the Amazon:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/eldorado.shtml

  11. perhaps he encountered a family deformed for some medical reason such as inbreeding.

    That seems like the simplest explanation. There have probably been many isolated tribes over human history that degenerated through several generations of inbreeding and eventually died out.

    • Agree: mc23
  12. Could severe inbreeding account for this, especially in very small groups?

    • Replies: @Real Elliot Page
    @mc23

    It's not severe inbreeding, it's severe outbreeding. African authorities claim, in the modern era, that there are rare instances of human-lesser-ape hybrids. Google it, it has made headlines. You can have basically 2 responses to this:

    1. Wow, the pictures combined with eye-witness accounts and the testimony of African officials is convincing that sub Saharan Africans (possibly all racial types or possibly only sub-Saharans) can hybridize with lesser apes, and in some cases have done so.

    2. The testimony of Africans, including at the state level, is highly unreliable and I do not believe it. This is basically relegating *all of them to ignorant ape-man status, if their testimony and reasoning has less validity than a child's.


    The shoddy tools and clothes carried by this small tribe, were not made by them, but gleaned from another tribe who were probably killed and left lying with their tools. Why does every white person reading the original account immediately dismiss the explanation of the Bushmen, that the little ones were not men but apes? Tribal recognition is extremely important to men who live without the artiface of modernity. If anyone would know human from ape, it would be the Bushman.

    https://guardian.ng/news/genetic-makeup-of-12-year-old-angolan-boy-in-dispute/

    Replies: @Mitchell Porter

  13. Could it be Bushmen before they got a bit admixed with Bantu? Or perhaps, Bushmen who crossed with some archaic hominid in South Africa?

    I’m sure what he meant by ‘no forehead’ is ‘a very low hairline.’ Used to be such a player on the Boston Celtics. He did pressers. Unfortunately, I was never a fan, and so can’t recall his name to find a picture of him.

  14. You got me reading this now. This isn’t the first impossible description of a subhuman race

    Here he is on the white pioneer fringe getting ready for his first expedition:

    “ The woman was not old or young, of a yellowish-white colour, a few little tufts of wool on the head; eyes she had, but the lids were so closed they were not to be seen, although she could see between them perfectly; no nose, only two orifices, through which she breathed, with thin projecting lips, and sharp chin, with broad cheek-bones, her spine curved in the most extraordinary manner, consequently the stomach protruded in the same proportion, with thin, calfless legs, and with that wonderful formation peculiar to this Bushmen tribe, and slightly developed in the Hottentot and Korannas. The two little girls—the eldest did not seem more than ten or twelve—were of the same type, the woman measured four feet one inch in height. The old Boer wanted to shoot them, but his vrow wished to keep and make servants of them. Their language was a succession of clicks with no guttural sound in the throat, like that of the Hottentot and Koranna tribes, but both languages assimilated so closely that it is clear the Hottentot and Koranna have partly descended from this pure breed, for a pure breed they are, and may be the remnants of almost a distinct race that lived on the face of this earth in prehistoric ages.

    The quarter of the globe in which they are found, at the extreme end of a large continent, in a rugged and mountainous country, a locality well adapted to preserve them from utter extinction, may be the cause of their preservation; at any rate, there are no other people in the world like them, and their having a language almost without words except clicks, is a most peculiar feature in connection with this entirely distinct race, and for anthropological science, these people should be preserved, that is the pure breed, unmixed by Hottentot or Koranna blood.”

    My explanation of this obviously false description is that (1) he misremembered them as he published 25 years after he met them, or (2) he is punching it up but doesn’t believe it rises to the level of fiction because he has the genuine belief that the San/Bushman people of 1880 are actually hybrids of an archaic subhuman pigmy race and modern negroids, and his description is of the final few unmixed members of such subhumans.

    • Replies: @Gimeiyo
    @Pixo

    In Pixo's excerpt above, our explorer is punching it up with a lot of speculation about pure types and antiquity, and perhaps a bit of sensationalism, but overall it doesn't strike me as obviously made up or false. Apart from the skin colour (perhaps albinism, dust, or illness of some sort -- Khoisan tend to be paler than Bantu or Nilotic people but not so pale that "yellowish-white" would fit) this seems like a European describing a San woman speaking a language with a lot more clicks than he's used to hearing. It's hard to find good audio examples distinguishing specific languages but my understanding that some Khoisan languages are a lot more click-heavy than others. Maybe a dialect of Taa language? I think a lot of languages in the region have died out in the last 100 years so maybe something even more click-heavy.

    As for the other physical features, one can more or less tell what he's talking about, e.g. the curvature of the spine and "wonderful formation" are probably just steatopygia. The broad cheek bones, almost closed eyes (heavy eyelids and . . . I don't know an English term but 涙袋? Tear bags? under the eyes), and sharp chin don't seem uncommon among the San peoples based on photos. That said, while Khoisan noses may not usually be as big or protruding as the average White or Bantu nose, they're not noseless so that seems like an exaggeration. But at the same time I think Whites of the time sometimes described East Asians (who also often have much less protruding noses than Whites) as virtually noseless, so his description may just reflect how he sees noses.

    , @Muggles
    @Pixo

    The thing about this kind of depiction is that while some unusual "hobbit" hominids have been found in Indonesia, on a small island, there would be eventually found skeletons and burial sites of such odd and small human tribes if they had lived in the area.

    Even if they had all died out after this account was made.

    Like the Yeti/Bigfoot, when no bones or skulls or skeletons are found, your baseline assumption should be that these tales are misrepresentations or exaggerations.

    This area isn't heavy, humid jungle so bones, etc. would survive a long time. Small populations would either die out or have to move, interbreed. Animals would also dig up and scatter bones at the surface, eventually.

    The other possibility is that such bones, etc. are buried but no one has yet found them, or made a serious scientific examination.

    Less likely for a large creature like a Yeti. Something big is going to leave a lot behind of themselves, tools, half chewed animal bones, etc.

  15. @AndrewR

    Wednesday, 17th, 4 a.m.—Sent my driver out and went myself to look for water; no signs of any. Treked three miles and outspanned to give oxen a feed on green young grass, as they have not had water since Monday afternoon. Went without coffee this morning to reserve what little we have for our mid-day meal, then it will be exhausted. This is the first time for twelve years I have been without water by my waggon
     
    Is there no limit to the ghastly sacrifices a man must endure for the Empire???

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    Coffee? No self-respecting British explorer would touch the disgusting beverage. It was always tea.
    If the British had been interested in coffee, they would have conquered Brazil, not India.
    So Anderson was obviously a republican or some other crank.

    • Replies: @Graham
    @Verymuchalive

    “No self-respecting British explorer would touch the disgusting beverage.”

    A pardonable assumption but untrue. England early took to coffee, and when tea later became popular never abandoned its former love. Most English people drink both, sometimes at different times of day. My grandfather would make a pot of coffee at breakfast time but drink tea in the afternoon. I make both tea and coffee when I get up; tea with breakfast then coffee afterwards. I don’t think my household is untypical.

    There is plenty of evidence of coffee drinking in accounts by British explorers of earlier periods.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Verymuchalive

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Coffee

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/XG1CiGSCTzqb05nDwIhhjg

    https://i.etsystatic.com/5891243/r/il/a0b917/3376939362/il_fullxfull.3376939362_386h.jpg


    An original 'Camp Coffee' label. The Paterson Company of Glasgow was catapulted to fame with the world's first instant coffee in 1876: Camp Coffee (an essence of coffee-beans, chicory and sugar poured from a distinctive bottle). The origin of Camp Coffee is believed to have come from a request from the Gordon Highlanders to Campbell Paterson for a coffee drink that could be used easily by the army on field campaigns in India. The regular process of grinding and brewing coffee beans was too complicated and time consuming for a military field kitchen. The creation of a liquid Camp Coffee provided a simpler method. Originally the picture depicted the Sikh as carrying a tray of coffee -- an intermediate version, with the Sikh standing but the tray missing; it is widely believed that this was changed to avoid the imperialist connotations of the Sikh as a servant.The new label is a drawing of a Gordon Highlander soldier and a Sikh soldier sitting down together outside a tent, from which flies a flag carrying the drink's slogan, "Ready Aye Ready".
     

    Replies: @Jack D, @Verymuchalive

  16. @Bill Jones
    https://cdn.locals.com/images/posts/596109/596109_qiepm131lyuhxip_full.jpeg

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Wait ’til ya see .gov’s murder tally for the 21st century – with assistance by big pHARMa.

    Democide/hemoclysm of the 20th century links:
    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/LINKS.HTM

    21st century clottery losers:

    Vaxecution testimony:
    https://palexander.substack.com/archive?sort=new

    Ongoing roster of “those who died suddenly”:
    https://markcrispinmiller.substack.com/

    More on the vaxpocalypse/pHARMa-holodomor:

    THE COVID BLOG™ – OFFICIAL BLOG OF COVID LEGAL USA™. VACCINES ARE THE LEADING CAUSE OF COINCIDENCES. STAY VIGILANT. https://thecovidblog.com/

    From the UK: https://expose-news.com/
    & https://www.saveusnow.org.uk/covid-vaccine-scientific-proof-lethal/

    From Germany: https://www.eugyppius.com/

    Money is a part, though not all, of it:
    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2021/05/12/pandemic-follow-the-real-money-the-unthinkable-amount-of-money/

    • Thanks: BB753
  17. Africa had its own “Neanderthals.” These were archaic humans who were gradually displaced and eventually driven to extinction as modern humans expanded out of East Africa some 80,000 years ago.

    There is good evidence that archaic humans survived in some parts of Africa into relatively recent times:

    – A skull from a Nigerian site (Iwo Eleru) is only about 16,300 years old and yet looks intermediate in shape between modern humans on the one hand and Neanderthals and Homo erectus on the other.

    – About 2% of the current African gene pool comes from a population that split from ancestral modern humans some 700,000 years ago. This archaic DNA was then picked up by modern African humans about 35,000 years ago, probably in central Africa because this admixture is highest in pygmy groups from that region.

    – Genomic analysis of western African pygmies (Biaka and Baka) indicates frequent, low-level interbreeding between archaic and modern humans, including an admixture event within the last 30,000 years.

    In West Africa, there are oral traditions of a small, reddish-colored people who preceded the current inhabitants:

    Pygmies may have been the first inhabitants of Côte d’Ivoire. In their oral tradition, most of the present-day peoples, in particular the Dan-Yacouba, recount that their ancestors, on arriving in the country, found “little red men” whom they pushed back into the forest. Others speak of “little brown men”, who had supernatural powers and to whom presents were given to win them over.

    Everywhere, but mainly in the countries from which the Pygmies have long disappeared, the Blacks who are considered to be the oldest occupants of the land say that it does not really belong to them and that, when their distant ancestors, coming from the East, established themselves, they found it in the possession of little men with reddish complexions and large heads who were the real natives and who, in exchange for fulfilment of certain agreements, permitted the Negroes who first arrived on a piece of land to enjoy its use and cultivate it. Eventually, those little men disappeared, but the memory of them has persisted.

    The Mano of Liberia say that the forested area used to contain only “talking chimpanzees.” These small creatures, called Lam, inhabited the area when the Mano first came. A Lam and his family would live in a hole in the ground.

    https://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/04/africas-neanderthals.html
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-ghosts-of-west-africa.html

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Peter Frost

    Thanks.


    About 2% of the current African gene pool comes from a population that split from ancestral modern humans some 700,000 years ago.
     
    Some say the portion could be as high as 19%:

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aax5097

    https://www.unz.com/runz/white-racialism-in-america-then-and-now/?highlight=%22erectus+walks%22#p_1_243
    , @Rapparee
    @Peter Frost

    Ordinarily, I tend to chalk up not-obviously-fake firsthand tales of encounters with exotic short-statured pre-modern men to preternatural causes (also the most likely explanation for the more seemingly-credible Bigfoot encounters, nearly all of the eyewitnesses to which describe Bigfoot as having distinctly man-like and not at all ape-like features, almost exactly identical to old folkloric depictions of the Woodwose, and often exhibiting bizarre supernatural abilities. Plenty of “space alien” encounters follow the same patterns, too).

    In this particular case, though, the area and time period in question actually does seem like a plausible candidate for a very late, possibly inbred and degenerate survival of an offshoot hominid population like homo naledi or something similar. Species can sometimes disappear from the observable fossil record for huge periods of time without actually going extinct, and the Bushmen who lived there at the time were themselves a pretty marginal, isolated, and archaic group of humans, so it seems like the kind of place where that sort of survival could be possible.

    , @hooodathunkit
    @Peter Frost

    Probably a lot of information about the people in pre-colonized Africa can be mined from some of the books by early African hunters. The "no nose" is described in one hunter's memoirs when he encountered a village (tribe) of Africans without noses; cut off to prevent capture by Arab slavers. He didn't describe any other unusual features IIRC.

    My general take is to take the hunters' word for it unless there's other claims by that individual that can be impeached. The okapi was perfectly described by two professional hunters, but not verified until decades later.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Cato
    @Peter Frost

    Thor Heyerdahl believed that the Polynesian islands had seen three waves of colonization, the first being a dark-skinned pygmy people, like the Negritos of Southeast Asia. He developed this idea from studying the folklore of the final-wave Polynesian settlers. It is interesting that folklore almost universally contains more human biodiversity than we see in the contemporary world.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind

  18. @Not Raul
    The gods must be crazy.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Great movie, Raul (Not). I wonder if you could remake that one today. Reverse the races?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Drop a rotary telephone onto a playground in Scarsdale.

    Or a punch deck in Palo Alto.

  19. @Pixo
    You got me reading this now. This isn’t the first impossible description of a subhuman race

    Here he is on the white pioneer fringe getting ready for his first expedition:

    “ The woman was not old or young, of a yellowish-white colour, a few little tufts of wool on the head; eyes she had, but the lids were so closed they were not to be seen, although she could see between them perfectly; no nose, only two orifices, through which she breathed, with thin projecting lips, and sharp chin, with broad cheek-bones, her spine curved in the most extraordinary manner, consequently the stomach protruded in the same proportion, with thin, calfless legs, and with that wonderful formation peculiar to this Bushmen tribe, and slightly developed in the Hottentot and Korannas. The two little girls—the eldest did not seem more than ten or twelve—were of the same type, the woman measured four feet one inch in height. The old Boer wanted to shoot them, but his vrow wished to keep and make servants of them. Their language was a succession of clicks with no guttural sound in the throat, like that of the Hottentot and Koranna tribes, but both languages assimilated so closely that it is clear the Hottentot and Koranna have partly descended from this pure breed, for a pure breed they are, and may be the remnants of almost a distinct race that lived on the face of this earth in prehistoric ages.

    The quarter of the globe in which they are found, at the extreme end of a large continent, in a rugged and mountainous country, a locality well adapted to preserve them from utter extinction, may be the cause of their preservation; at any rate, there are no other people in the world like them, and their having a language almost without words except clicks, is a most peculiar feature in connection with this entirely distinct race, and for anthropological science, these people should be preserved, that is the pure breed, unmixed by Hottentot or Koranna blood.”

    My explanation of this obviously false description is that (1) he misremembered them as he published 25 years after he met them, or (2) he is punching it up but doesn’t believe it rises to the level of fiction because he has the genuine belief that the San/Bushman people of 1880 are actually hybrids of an archaic subhuman pigmy race and modern negroids, and his description is of the final few unmixed members of such subhumans.

    Replies: @Gimeiyo, @Muggles

    In Pixo’s excerpt above, our explorer is punching it up with a lot of speculation about pure types and antiquity, and perhaps a bit of sensationalism, but overall it doesn’t strike me as obviously made up or false. Apart from the skin colour (perhaps albinism, dust, or illness of some sort — Khoisan tend to be paler than Bantu or Nilotic people but not so pale that “yellowish-white” would fit) this seems like a European describing a San woman speaking a language with a lot more clicks than he’s used to hearing. It’s hard to find good audio examples distinguishing specific languages but my understanding that some Khoisan languages are a lot more click-heavy than others. Maybe a dialect of Taa language? I think a lot of languages in the region have died out in the last 100 years so maybe something even more click-heavy.

    As for the other physical features, one can more or less tell what he’s talking about, e.g. the curvature of the spine and “wonderful formation” are probably just steatopygia. The broad cheek bones, almost closed eyes (heavy eyelids and . . . I don’t know an English term but 涙袋? Tear bags? under the eyes), and sharp chin don’t seem uncommon among the San peoples based on photos. That said, while Khoisan noses may not usually be as big or protruding as the average White or Bantu nose, they’re not noseless so that seems like an exaggeration. But at the same time I think Whites of the time sometimes described East Asians (who also often have much less protruding noses than Whites) as virtually noseless, so his description may just reflect how he sees noses.

  20. @Bill Jones
    https://cdn.locals.com/images/posts/596109/596109_qiepm131lyuhxip_full.jpeg

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Bard of Bumperstickers, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    You can bet that each government murder was more expensive than each unsolved private murder.

  21. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Not Raul

    Great movie, Raul (Not). I wonder if you could remake that one today. Reverse the races?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Drop a rotary telephone onto a playground in Scarsdale.

    Or a punch deck in Palo Alto.

  22. True or not I see big Broadway potential here — Paint Your Waggon!

  23. How did Hawaii get discovered and settled? Let’s scatter dozens of boats into the morning sun until they fall off the end of the Earth or someone returns? Who would sign up for that 3 hour tour?

    • Replies: @Peter Johnson
    @Ralph L

    Track the direction of seabirds flying overhead, since seabirds use very isolated islands to breed and roost and instinctively know the route, IIRC.

  24. Regardless of whether this particular group represented a sub-race in process of extinction or was only a one of a kind deformed family, it really is possible for humans to not only evolve upward to Western levels but to sink down to the point where humans are basically just another form of wildlife. The early descriptions of Australian aborigines are very similar – they walked around in their birthday suits, had few if any material possessions and their housing resembled a chimp’s nest:

    https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d7b37e87a7a3efde56cad60b21e2992d-lq

    • Replies: @Whereismyhandle
    @Jack D

    Abos may be as far behind African-Americans as blacks are behind whites.

    Standard deviation lower in IQ and more criminal.

    They essentially are animals in an industrialized, technological, literate civilization. There's really no way for them to adapt to the new environment brought to their island by Europeans.

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D

    Those aborigines look like a group of naked Indian swamis. And their foreheads appear to be higher than the white guy posing with them. Their crania look larger, too.

    https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/photo-feature/story/20190304-naked-knights-of-hinduism-1461412-2019-02-22

    Replies: @Jack D

  25. One of Bob Newhart’s funniest sitcom scenes had him being pressed into emergency service as a TV book-show host — the producer tells him don’t worry, you’ll be fine, just let the author do the talking. Unfortunately the author, allegedly a courageous jungle explorer, is also an unvetted last-second fill-in

    All seems OK at first as the writer begins recounting his death-defying expedition among dangerous primitive tribes — until he gets to the part about discovering the valley of live roaming dinosaurs. “Uh, so how did you escape these dinosaurs,” Newhart asks, desperately trying to keep a straight face. “Why, that was when the aliens beamed me up to their spaceship,” the explorer calmly explains.

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    @Known Fact

    Here you go:

    https://youtu.be/g2H-9OmErYQ

    Replies: @Known Fact

  26. @Almost Missouri
    @Bill Jones

    Thanks.

    Too bad there's no citation though.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    I couldn’t find one on the anon post where I stumbled across the thing.
    I slap them up here as a baseline.

  27. At Narukus, on the Nosop river…

    …a trickle, for the lack of rain,
    I made a meal of warthog liver–
    which I shall never do again!

    I came upon a family of Bushmen, ten in number…

    How many were going to St Ives? Sorry, but the verse writes itself. Something about the Victorian prose.

    …or perhaps he encountered a family deformed for some medical reason such as inbreeding.

    Known to happen.

  28. @Peter Frost
    Africa had its own "Neanderthals." These were archaic humans who were gradually displaced and eventually driven to extinction as modern humans expanded out of East Africa some 80,000 years ago.

    There is good evidence that archaic humans survived in some parts of Africa into relatively recent times:

    - A skull from a Nigerian site (Iwo Eleru) is only about 16,300 years old and yet looks intermediate in shape between modern humans on the one hand and Neanderthals and Homo erectus on the other.

    - About 2% of the current African gene pool comes from a population that split from ancestral modern humans some 700,000 years ago. This archaic DNA was then picked up by modern African humans about 35,000 years ago, probably in central Africa because this admixture is highest in pygmy groups from that region.

    - Genomic analysis of western African pygmies (Biaka and Baka) indicates frequent, low-level interbreeding between archaic and modern humans, including an admixture event within the last 30,000 years.

    In West Africa, there are oral traditions of a small, reddish-colored people who preceded the current inhabitants:

    Pygmies may have been the first inhabitants of Côte d'Ivoire. In their oral tradition, most of the present-day peoples, in particular the Dan-Yacouba, recount that their ancestors, on arriving in the country, found "little red men" whom they pushed back into the forest. Others speak of "little brown men", who had supernatural powers and to whom presents were given to win them over.
     

    Everywhere, but mainly in the countries from which the Pygmies have long disappeared, the Blacks who are considered to be the oldest occupants of the land say that it does not really belong to them and that, when their distant ancestors, coming from the East, established themselves, they found it in the possession of little men with reddish complexions and large heads who were the real natives and who, in exchange for fulfilment of certain agreements, permitted the Negroes who first arrived on a piece of land to enjoy its use and cultivate it. Eventually, those little men disappeared, but the memory of them has persisted.
     
    The Mano of Liberia say that the forested area used to contain only “talking chimpanzees.” These small creatures, called Lam, inhabited the area when the Mano first came. A Lam and his family would live in a hole in the ground.

    https://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/04/africas-neanderthals.html
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-ghosts-of-west-africa.html

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Rapparee, @hooodathunkit, @Cato

    Thanks.

    About 2% of the current African gene pool comes from a population that split from ancestral modern humans some 700,000 years ago.

    Some say the portion could be as high as 19%:

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aax5097

    https://www.unz.com/runz/white-racialism-in-america-then-and-now/?highlight=%22erectus+walks%22#p_1_243

  29. David Reich and his laboratory partners have developed techniques to identify “ghost populations” of archaic races that have disappeared, but left traces in genomic samples. Patrilineal genocide (where all the male line of a given local population or “race” is exterminated) was not that unusual in the distant past. In the late 19th and early 20th century under the influence of western agriculture and technology the population of South Africa exploded. There could easily have been a patrilineal genocide of such a vulnerable race as described. See Reich’s book Who We Are and How We Got Here.

  30. There is a passage in Arrian’s history of Alexander the Great’s campaign that has occasioned rational speculation that, in the Hindu Kush, the Macedonian army may have encountered the last remaining relict band of Neanderthals, some 23,000 years after they had supposed gone finally extinct.

  31. Most San Bushman types have respectable foreheads, especially the young. Neoteny, is it called?

    But there’s a few that give you pause for thought? Does the forehead shrink in old age? Or the whole head? Some of these ones have only about two finger widths of forehead.

  32. The Sanxingdui Bronze Age culture found in southwest China has a distinct non-East Asian look to it (Meso-American?)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanxingdui

    It’s becoming evident that quite a lot Chinese cultural elements are not native to China– distilled liquor (Middle East through Mongols), spicy food (Americas), chariots (Inner Asia).

  33. Arthur Conan Doyle’s excellent Sherlock Holmes novel The Sign of the Four, published in 1890, also featured a tiny savage Andaman native named Tonga who played an important part in the novel. A popular literary cliché.

  34. @Pixo
    You got me reading this now. This isn’t the first impossible description of a subhuman race

    Here he is on the white pioneer fringe getting ready for his first expedition:

    “ The woman was not old or young, of a yellowish-white colour, a few little tufts of wool on the head; eyes she had, but the lids were so closed they were not to be seen, although she could see between them perfectly; no nose, only two orifices, through which she breathed, with thin projecting lips, and sharp chin, with broad cheek-bones, her spine curved in the most extraordinary manner, consequently the stomach protruded in the same proportion, with thin, calfless legs, and with that wonderful formation peculiar to this Bushmen tribe, and slightly developed in the Hottentot and Korannas. The two little girls—the eldest did not seem more than ten or twelve—were of the same type, the woman measured four feet one inch in height. The old Boer wanted to shoot them, but his vrow wished to keep and make servants of them. Their language was a succession of clicks with no guttural sound in the throat, like that of the Hottentot and Koranna tribes, but both languages assimilated so closely that it is clear the Hottentot and Koranna have partly descended from this pure breed, for a pure breed they are, and may be the remnants of almost a distinct race that lived on the face of this earth in prehistoric ages.

    The quarter of the globe in which they are found, at the extreme end of a large continent, in a rugged and mountainous country, a locality well adapted to preserve them from utter extinction, may be the cause of their preservation; at any rate, there are no other people in the world like them, and their having a language almost without words except clicks, is a most peculiar feature in connection with this entirely distinct race, and for anthropological science, these people should be preserved, that is the pure breed, unmixed by Hottentot or Koranna blood.”

    My explanation of this obviously false description is that (1) he misremembered them as he published 25 years after he met them, or (2) he is punching it up but doesn’t believe it rises to the level of fiction because he has the genuine belief that the San/Bushman people of 1880 are actually hybrids of an archaic subhuman pigmy race and modern negroids, and his description is of the final few unmixed members of such subhumans.

    Replies: @Gimeiyo, @Muggles

    The thing about this kind of depiction is that while some unusual “hobbit” hominids have been found in Indonesia, on a small island, there would be eventually found skeletons and burial sites of such odd and small human tribes if they had lived in the area.

    Even if they had all died out after this account was made.

    Like the Yeti/Bigfoot, when no bones or skulls or skeletons are found, your baseline assumption should be that these tales are misrepresentations or exaggerations.

    This area isn’t heavy, humid jungle so bones, etc. would survive a long time. Small populations would either die out or have to move, interbreed. Animals would also dig up and scatter bones at the surface, eventually.

    The other possibility is that such bones, etc. are buried but no one has yet found them, or made a serious scientific examination.

    Less likely for a large creature like a Yeti. Something big is going to leave a lot behind of themselves, tools, half chewed animal bones, etc.

  35. @Anon
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_de_Orellana

    Francisco de Orellana was a member of a team sent by Pizarro to investigate the eastern side of the Andes. The project was a bit of a disaster, resulting in a few of the surviving members accidentally discovering the source of the Amazon, floating down the entire length of the River in homemade boats to the Atlantic, and hitching a ride on a ship back to Spain, while their fellow conquistadors in Peru wondered what the hell happened to them.

    Orellana, being literate, wrote up a crazy travelogue that until recently was regarded as fiction, but is now thought to mostly be true, but filtered through the eyes of a guy whose background made it hard for him to interpret what he was seeing. He wrote about a tribe of female warriors, not true, and also about hundreds of miles of cultivated riverbank organized in a kingdom, now thought to be true.

    Replies: @Cortes

    The BBC “Horizon” Science Programme aired an interesting episode in 2002 looking at groundworks which appear to provide a basis on which to give credence to Orellana’s claims to have seen extensive, prosperous settlements in the Amazon:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/eldorado.shtml

  36. After the Flores Man- the “Hobbit”- was discovered in Indonesia (islands lend themselves to smaller versions of species found elsewhere), some of the natives were like, “Oh, yeah, we have legends of the little people.”

    The problem is, Flores Man died out tens of thousands of years ago. That’s not long enough to remain in folk memory. It does raise the possibility that a few may have survived much longer.

  37. https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-409088aa3654d3f8d773319b5fafe613-lq

    I once read that most handsome actors have hooded eyes. And it might be the same for actresses. (Can I still say “actress”?) But the photos in the posts go a hood too far; too much of a good thing.

  38. @Known Fact
    One of Bob Newhart's funniest sitcom scenes had him being pressed into emergency service as a TV book-show host -- the producer tells him don't worry, you'll be fine, just let the author do the talking. Unfortunately the author, allegedly a courageous jungle explorer, is also an unvetted last-second fill-in

    All seems OK at first as the writer begins recounting his death-defying expedition among dangerous primitive tribes -- until he gets to the part about discovering the valley of live roaming dinosaurs. "Uh, so how did you escape these dinosaurs," Newhart asks, desperately trying to keep a straight face. "Why, that was when the aliens beamed me up to their spaceship," the explorer calmly explains.

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    Here you go:

    • LOL: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Paul Jolliffe

    Thank you! I've never seen this other actor and I don't know how he does all this with a straight face

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  39. @Jack D
    Regardless of whether this particular group represented a sub-race in process of extinction or was only a one of a kind deformed family, it really is possible for humans to not only evolve upward to Western levels but to sink down to the point where humans are basically just another form of wildlife. The early descriptions of Australian aborigines are very similar - they walked around in their birthday suits, had few if any material possessions and their housing resembled a chimp's nest:

    https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d7b37e87a7a3efde56cad60b21e2992d-lq

    Replies: @Whereismyhandle, @PiltdownMan

    Abos may be as far behind African-Americans as blacks are behind whites.

    Standard deviation lower in IQ and more criminal.

    They essentially are animals in an industrialized, technological, literate civilization. There’s really no way for them to adapt to the new environment brought to their island by Europeans.

  40. @Peter Frost
    Africa had its own "Neanderthals." These were archaic humans who were gradually displaced and eventually driven to extinction as modern humans expanded out of East Africa some 80,000 years ago.

    There is good evidence that archaic humans survived in some parts of Africa into relatively recent times:

    - A skull from a Nigerian site (Iwo Eleru) is only about 16,300 years old and yet looks intermediate in shape between modern humans on the one hand and Neanderthals and Homo erectus on the other.

    - About 2% of the current African gene pool comes from a population that split from ancestral modern humans some 700,000 years ago. This archaic DNA was then picked up by modern African humans about 35,000 years ago, probably in central Africa because this admixture is highest in pygmy groups from that region.

    - Genomic analysis of western African pygmies (Biaka and Baka) indicates frequent, low-level interbreeding between archaic and modern humans, including an admixture event within the last 30,000 years.

    In West Africa, there are oral traditions of a small, reddish-colored people who preceded the current inhabitants:

    Pygmies may have been the first inhabitants of Côte d'Ivoire. In their oral tradition, most of the present-day peoples, in particular the Dan-Yacouba, recount that their ancestors, on arriving in the country, found "little red men" whom they pushed back into the forest. Others speak of "little brown men", who had supernatural powers and to whom presents were given to win them over.
     

    Everywhere, but mainly in the countries from which the Pygmies have long disappeared, the Blacks who are considered to be the oldest occupants of the land say that it does not really belong to them and that, when their distant ancestors, coming from the East, established themselves, they found it in the possession of little men with reddish complexions and large heads who were the real natives and who, in exchange for fulfilment of certain agreements, permitted the Negroes who first arrived on a piece of land to enjoy its use and cultivate it. Eventually, those little men disappeared, but the memory of them has persisted.
     
    The Mano of Liberia say that the forested area used to contain only “talking chimpanzees.” These small creatures, called Lam, inhabited the area when the Mano first came. A Lam and his family would live in a hole in the ground.

    https://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/04/africas-neanderthals.html
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-ghosts-of-west-africa.html

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Rapparee, @hooodathunkit, @Cato

    Ordinarily, I tend to chalk up not-obviously-fake firsthand tales of encounters with exotic short-statured pre-modern men to preternatural causes (also the most likely explanation for the more seemingly-credible Bigfoot encounters, nearly all of the eyewitnesses to which describe Bigfoot as having distinctly man-like and not at all ape-like features, almost exactly identical to old folkloric depictions of the Woodwose, and often exhibiting bizarre supernatural abilities. Plenty of “space alien” encounters follow the same patterns, too).

    In this particular case, though, the area and time period in question actually does seem like a plausible candidate for a very late, possibly inbred and degenerate survival of an offshoot hominid population like homo naledi or something similar. Species can sometimes disappear from the observable fossil record for huge periods of time without actually going extinct, and the Bushmen who lived there at the time were themselves a pretty marginal, isolated, and archaic group of humans, so it seems like the kind of place where that sort of survival could be possible.

  41. @Paul Jolliffe
    @Known Fact

    Here you go:

    https://youtu.be/g2H-9OmErYQ

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Thank you! I’ve never seen this other actor and I don’t know how he does all this with a straight face

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Known Fact

    He was in bunch of movies and TV shows in the 1980s in bit parts. His name is Guy Boyd. I looked him up, and he had a major part in the Brian De Palma movie Body Double, back then.

    Replies: @Known Fact

  42. @Peter Frost
    Africa had its own "Neanderthals." These were archaic humans who were gradually displaced and eventually driven to extinction as modern humans expanded out of East Africa some 80,000 years ago.

    There is good evidence that archaic humans survived in some parts of Africa into relatively recent times:

    - A skull from a Nigerian site (Iwo Eleru) is only about 16,300 years old and yet looks intermediate in shape between modern humans on the one hand and Neanderthals and Homo erectus on the other.

    - About 2% of the current African gene pool comes from a population that split from ancestral modern humans some 700,000 years ago. This archaic DNA was then picked up by modern African humans about 35,000 years ago, probably in central Africa because this admixture is highest in pygmy groups from that region.

    - Genomic analysis of western African pygmies (Biaka and Baka) indicates frequent, low-level interbreeding between archaic and modern humans, including an admixture event within the last 30,000 years.

    In West Africa, there are oral traditions of a small, reddish-colored people who preceded the current inhabitants:

    Pygmies may have been the first inhabitants of Côte d'Ivoire. In their oral tradition, most of the present-day peoples, in particular the Dan-Yacouba, recount that their ancestors, on arriving in the country, found "little red men" whom they pushed back into the forest. Others speak of "little brown men", who had supernatural powers and to whom presents were given to win them over.
     

    Everywhere, but mainly in the countries from which the Pygmies have long disappeared, the Blacks who are considered to be the oldest occupants of the land say that it does not really belong to them and that, when their distant ancestors, coming from the East, established themselves, they found it in the possession of little men with reddish complexions and large heads who were the real natives and who, in exchange for fulfilment of certain agreements, permitted the Negroes who first arrived on a piece of land to enjoy its use and cultivate it. Eventually, those little men disappeared, but the memory of them has persisted.
     
    The Mano of Liberia say that the forested area used to contain only “talking chimpanzees.” These small creatures, called Lam, inhabited the area when the Mano first came. A Lam and his family would live in a hole in the ground.

    https://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/04/africas-neanderthals.html
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-ghosts-of-west-africa.html

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Rapparee, @hooodathunkit, @Cato

    Probably a lot of information about the people in pre-colonized Africa can be mined from some of the books by early African hunters. The “no nose” is described in one hunter’s memoirs when he encountered a village (tribe) of Africans without noses; cut off to prevent capture by Arab slavers. He didn’t describe any other unusual features IIRC.

    My general take is to take the hunters’ word for it unless there’s other claims by that individual that can be impeached. The okapi was perfectly described by two professional hunters, but not verified until decades later.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @hooodathunkit

    I never heard of the okapi, a sort of short giraffe that dwells in deep African forests, until around 2000.

  43. @Jack D
    Regardless of whether this particular group represented a sub-race in process of extinction or was only a one of a kind deformed family, it really is possible for humans to not only evolve upward to Western levels but to sink down to the point where humans are basically just another form of wildlife. The early descriptions of Australian aborigines are very similar - they walked around in their birthday suits, had few if any material possessions and their housing resembled a chimp's nest:

    https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d7b37e87a7a3efde56cad60b21e2992d-lq

    Replies: @Whereismyhandle, @PiltdownMan

    Those aborigines look like a group of naked Indian swamis. And their foreheads appear to be higher than the white guy posing with them. Their crania look larger, too.

    https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/photo-feature/story/20190304-naked-knights-of-hinduism-1461412-2019-02-22

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @PiltdownMan

    When you are starving or near starvation, the rest of your body shrinks so your head looks relatively bigger.


    Total brain volume was significantly smaller for Aborigines (1199 +/- 84 ml) compared to Caucasians (1386 +/- 98 ml). Significantly smaller volumes were also found for cerebellum, prosencephalon-mesencephalon unit, cerebral cortex, frontal cortex, parieto-occipitotemporal cortex, and hippocampus.
     
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1261675/#:~:text=Total%20brain%20volume%20was%20significantly,%2Doccipitotemporal%20cortex%2C%20and%20hippocampus.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  44. @hooodathunkit
    @Peter Frost

    Probably a lot of information about the people in pre-colonized Africa can be mined from some of the books by early African hunters. The "no nose" is described in one hunter's memoirs when he encountered a village (tribe) of Africans without noses; cut off to prevent capture by Arab slavers. He didn't describe any other unusual features IIRC.

    My general take is to take the hunters' word for it unless there's other claims by that individual that can be impeached. The okapi was perfectly described by two professional hunters, but not verified until decades later.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I never heard of the okapi, a sort of short giraffe that dwells in deep African forests, until around 2000.

  45. @Known Fact
    @Paul Jolliffe

    Thank you! I've never seen this other actor and I don't know how he does all this with a straight face

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    He was in bunch of movies and TV shows in the 1980s in bit parts. His name is Guy Boyd. I looked him up, and he had a major part in the Brian De Palma movie Body Double, back then.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @PiltdownMan

    Well he's sitting there with the master of deadpan comedy and more than holding his own. I don't know how they even managed to film this scene -- Tim Conway and Harvey Korman would be on the floor laughing

  46. Menehune likely derive from the settlement patterns of the Hawaiian islands, the earlier Marquesans were forced into a lower status by conquering Tahitians who brought in their priesthood and its associated caste system, with the Marquesans now being forced into a lesser status on marginal lands in the mountains.

    Far more interesting is the evidence of ancestral memories of salt water crocodiles in Polynesian mythology, which are stocked with gigantic man-eating lizards who live near water and have the power of turning invisible and/or shapeshifting.

  47. probably some form of negrito–black pygmy..such pygmies lived over much of the Old World in times past, including europe…of course it is quite possible they were similar to homo naledi, probably related to australopithecus or habilis…

    the cerutti mastodon site hints at some archaic hominid living in north america over 100kya…

    hominin fossils are quite rare, so almost certainly we have only a partial understanding of archaic man

  48. @Peter Frost
    Africa had its own "Neanderthals." These were archaic humans who were gradually displaced and eventually driven to extinction as modern humans expanded out of East Africa some 80,000 years ago.

    There is good evidence that archaic humans survived in some parts of Africa into relatively recent times:

    - A skull from a Nigerian site (Iwo Eleru) is only about 16,300 years old and yet looks intermediate in shape between modern humans on the one hand and Neanderthals and Homo erectus on the other.

    - About 2% of the current African gene pool comes from a population that split from ancestral modern humans some 700,000 years ago. This archaic DNA was then picked up by modern African humans about 35,000 years ago, probably in central Africa because this admixture is highest in pygmy groups from that region.

    - Genomic analysis of western African pygmies (Biaka and Baka) indicates frequent, low-level interbreeding between archaic and modern humans, including an admixture event within the last 30,000 years.

    In West Africa, there are oral traditions of a small, reddish-colored people who preceded the current inhabitants:

    Pygmies may have been the first inhabitants of Côte d'Ivoire. In their oral tradition, most of the present-day peoples, in particular the Dan-Yacouba, recount that their ancestors, on arriving in the country, found "little red men" whom they pushed back into the forest. Others speak of "little brown men", who had supernatural powers and to whom presents were given to win them over.
     

    Everywhere, but mainly in the countries from which the Pygmies have long disappeared, the Blacks who are considered to be the oldest occupants of the land say that it does not really belong to them and that, when their distant ancestors, coming from the East, established themselves, they found it in the possession of little men with reddish complexions and large heads who were the real natives and who, in exchange for fulfilment of certain agreements, permitted the Negroes who first arrived on a piece of land to enjoy its use and cultivate it. Eventually, those little men disappeared, but the memory of them has persisted.
     
    The Mano of Liberia say that the forested area used to contain only “talking chimpanzees.” These small creatures, called Lam, inhabited the area when the Mano first came. A Lam and his family would live in a hole in the ground.

    https://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/04/africas-neanderthals.html
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-ghosts-of-west-africa.html

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Rapparee, @hooodathunkit, @Cato

    Thor Heyerdahl believed that the Polynesian islands had seen three waves of colonization, the first being a dark-skinned pygmy people, like the Negritos of Southeast Asia. He developed this idea from studying the folklore of the final-wave Polynesian settlers. It is interesting that folklore almost universally contains more human biodiversity than we see in the contemporary world.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @Cato

    Thor Heyerdahl believed in a lot of things, now, didn't he?

    The thing I don't "get" about Mr. Heyerdahl is that he was the object of admiring attention from National Geographic, but the scholarly community has never held his theories of human migration as the subject of an episode of the Joe Rogan Experience. Interesting, fascinating, but not science?

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @Cato

  49. “Narukus” may be a river branch that has dried up. It can be found in a “war atlas” of World War I, straddling what is now the border of Namibia and Botswana. “Nosop” is now spelt Nossob.

    One of Wikipedia’s articles derived from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica is about a “little-known nomadic people of South Africa” called “Vaalpens”, whose average height is said to be 4 foot.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mitchell Porter

    Thanks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaalpens

    This 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica edition contends they are related to Bushmen but even shorter at 4 feet tall. No description of head shape or hairiness.

    May or may not be the same people as described by Anderson.

  50. @PiltdownMan
    @Known Fact

    He was in bunch of movies and TV shows in the 1980s in bit parts. His name is Guy Boyd. I looked him up, and he had a major part in the Brian De Palma movie Body Double, back then.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Well he’s sitting there with the master of deadpan comedy and more than holding his own. I don’t know how they even managed to film this scene — Tim Conway and Harvey Korman would be on the floor laughing

  51. @Mitchell Porter
    "Narukus" may be a river branch that has dried up. It can be found in a "war atlas" of World War I, straddling what is now the border of Namibia and Botswana. "Nosop" is now spelt Nossob.

    One of Wikipedia's articles derived from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica is about a "little-known nomadic people of South Africa" called "Vaalpens", whose average height is said to be 4 foot.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Thanks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaalpens

    This 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica edition contends they are related to Bushmen but even shorter at 4 feet tall. No description of head shape or hairiness.

    May or may not be the same people as described by Anderson.

  52. @Verymuchalive
    @AndrewR

    Coffee? No self-respecting British explorer would touch the disgusting beverage. It was always tea.
    If the British had been interested in coffee, they would have conquered Brazil, not India.
    So Anderson was obviously a republican or some other crank.

    Replies: @Graham, @YetAnotherAnon

    “No self-respecting British explorer would touch the disgusting beverage.”

    A pardonable assumption but untrue. England early took to coffee, and when tea later became popular never abandoned its former love. Most English people drink both, sometimes at different times of day. My grandfather would make a pot of coffee at breakfast time but drink tea in the afternoon. I make both tea and coffee when I get up; tea with breakfast then coffee afterwards. I don’t think my household is untypical.

    There is plenty of evidence of coffee drinking in accounts by British explorers of earlier periods.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    @Graham

    There is plenty of evidence of coffee drinking in accounts by British explorers of earlier periods.

    I take your point. But Tea was overwhelmingly popular from the early 19th Century until about the 1960s. So Anderson would have been highly unusual for an explorer in the mid- to late-Victorian period.
    I can't find anything biographical about Andrew Arthur Anderson. All it says is floruit 1860-90.
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F270205

    If he were a bona fide explorer, you would think there would be an entry in some dictionary of national biography or whatever. There doesn't seem to be. So maybe he was just a colonial who published some tall tales about his fictitious life as an explorer. I would be grateful if any commenter could provide me with further details of Anderson's life.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

  53. @Graham
    @Verymuchalive

    “No self-respecting British explorer would touch the disgusting beverage.”

    A pardonable assumption but untrue. England early took to coffee, and when tea later became popular never abandoned its former love. Most English people drink both, sometimes at different times of day. My grandfather would make a pot of coffee at breakfast time but drink tea in the afternoon. I make both tea and coffee when I get up; tea with breakfast then coffee afterwards. I don’t think my household is untypical.

    There is plenty of evidence of coffee drinking in accounts by British explorers of earlier periods.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    There is plenty of evidence of coffee drinking in accounts by British explorers of earlier periods.

    I take your point. But Tea was overwhelmingly popular from the early 19th Century until about the 1960s. So Anderson would have been highly unusual for an explorer in the mid- to late-Victorian period.
    I can’t find anything biographical about Andrew Arthur Anderson. All it says is floruit 1860-90.
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F270205

    If he were a bona fide explorer, you would think there would be an entry in some dictionary of national biography or whatever. There doesn’t seem to be. So maybe he was just a colonial who published some tall tales about his fictitious life as an explorer. I would be grateful if any commenter could provide me with further details of Anderson’s life.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Verymuchalive

    http://www.artnet.com/artists/andrew-arthur-anderson/troops-crossing-at-mr-c-deveralls-ferry-on-the-9ysNfVflt7cTzGsB8fG1DQ2

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

  54. @Ralph L
    How did Hawaii get discovered and settled? Let's scatter dozens of boats into the morning sun until they fall off the end of the Earth or someone returns? Who would sign up for that 3 hour tour?

    Replies: @Peter Johnson

    Track the direction of seabirds flying overhead, since seabirds use very isolated islands to breed and roost and instinctively know the route, IIRC.

  55. @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D

    Those aborigines look like a group of naked Indian swamis. And their foreheads appear to be higher than the white guy posing with them. Their crania look larger, too.

    https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/photo-feature/story/20190304-naked-knights-of-hinduism-1461412-2019-02-22

    Replies: @Jack D

    When you are starving or near starvation, the rest of your body shrinks so your head looks relatively bigger.

    Total brain volume was significantly smaller for Aborigines (1199 +/- 84 ml) compared to Caucasians (1386 +/- 98 ml). Significantly smaller volumes were also found for cerebellum, prosencephalon-mesencephalon unit, cerebral cortex, frontal cortex, parieto-occipitotemporal cortex, and hippocampus.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1261675/#:~:text=Total%20brain%20volume%20was%20significantly,%2Doccipitotemporal%20cortex%2C%20and%20hippocampus.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D

    I don't doubt the average figures, but those aborigines' heads do look pretty big, compared to that of the white guy, Walter Baldwin Spencer, the evolutionary biologist, though he is wearing a hat that makes it somewhat hard to tell.

    Here's a higher resolution scan of that photograph. Perhaps Baldwin Spencer's noggin was more at the 1386 (-98ml) end of the range, and that of the Arrente elders pictured was closer to the 1199 (+84) top end of the distribution.


    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-caVTqlIJ_EM/WM2s4uJULMI/AAAAAAAABc4/xzUhPJ1T0B4QjC6d2hBpZRIih3N4qT6-gCLcB/s1600/ngcgsp6b-1390442355.jpg

  56. @Jack D
    @PiltdownMan

    When you are starving or near starvation, the rest of your body shrinks so your head looks relatively bigger.


    Total brain volume was significantly smaller for Aborigines (1199 +/- 84 ml) compared to Caucasians (1386 +/- 98 ml). Significantly smaller volumes were also found for cerebellum, prosencephalon-mesencephalon unit, cerebral cortex, frontal cortex, parieto-occipitotemporal cortex, and hippocampus.
     
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1261675/#:~:text=Total%20brain%20volume%20was%20significantly,%2Doccipitotemporal%20cortex%2C%20and%20hippocampus.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    I don’t doubt the average figures, but those aborigines’ heads do look pretty big, compared to that of the white guy, Walter Baldwin Spencer, the evolutionary biologist, though he is wearing a hat that makes it somewhat hard to tell.

    Here’s a higher resolution scan of that photograph. Perhaps Baldwin Spencer’s noggin was more at the 1386 (-98ml) end of the range, and that of the Arrente elders pictured was closer to the 1199 (+84) top end of the distribution.

  57. Could aboriginal skulls be thicker? That might result in a smaller-than-expected volume compared to the size of the head. A couple of those guys appear to have very prominent brow ridges, which makes me wonder if the rest of the skull is similarly heavy.

  58. @Verymuchalive
    @AndrewR

    Coffee? No self-respecting British explorer would touch the disgusting beverage. It was always tea.
    If the British had been interested in coffee, they would have conquered Brazil, not India.
    So Anderson was obviously a republican or some other crank.

    Replies: @Graham, @YetAnotherAnon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Coffee

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/XG1CiGSCTzqb05nDwIhhjg

    An original ‘Camp Coffee’ label. The Paterson Company of Glasgow was catapulted to fame with the world’s first instant coffee in 1876: Camp Coffee (an essence of coffee-beans, chicory and sugar poured from a distinctive bottle). The origin of Camp Coffee is believed to have come from a request from the Gordon Highlanders to Campbell Paterson for a coffee drink that could be used easily by the army on field campaigns in India. The regular process of grinding and brewing coffee beans was too complicated and time consuming for a military field kitchen. The creation of a liquid Camp Coffee provided a simpler method. Originally the picture depicted the Sikh as carrying a tray of coffee — an intermediate version, with the Sikh standing but the tray missing; it is widely believed that this was changed to avoid the imperialist connotations of the Sikh as a servant.The new label is a drawing of a Gordon Highlander soldier and a Sikh soldier sitting down together outside a tent, from which flies a flag carrying the drink’s slogan, “Ready Aye Ready”.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @YetAnotherAnon

    The Sikh has now been promoted to equal status - he sits side by side with the white guy. I dunno who serves them, probably some illegal alien or maybe a white college grad with a worthless degree:

    https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2012/01/03/09/coffee100906_228x531.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&quality=50&crop=968%3A645%2Csmart

    BTW, is it me or is the quality of the artwork getting worse?

    The soldiers of the Union Army had no problem brewing coffee in the field. The Confederates would have too , if they had been able to get coffee beans. Coffee with chicory (which is what Camp Coffee is) remains popular in New Orleans - chicory was a coffee substitute made from roasted and ground chicory roots (chicory is a lettuce like vegetable).

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Brutusale

    , @Verymuchalive
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Thanks for the connection, but I'm going to have to disappoint you.

    Although the 'Gordon Highlanders' had existed as the 92nd (Gordon Highlanders) Regiment of Foot since 1794, the actual 'Gordon Highlanders Regiment' was formed in 1881 by amalgamation of the 75th (Stirlingshire) Regiment of Foot and 92nd (Gordon Highlanders) Regiment of Foot.

    If the story is true - which I doubt - the request in 1876 came from the 92nd ( Gordon Highlanders) Regiment of Foot. Secondly, they were an Aberdeen regiment, so it would be unlikely they would make this request to a Glasgow manufacturer. It would be much more convenient to ask an Aberdeen manufacturer.

    Thirdly, Ready Aye Ready was the motto of ( Glasgow ) Rangers Football Club - founded 1872. It has since been shortened to Ready. Aberdeen's is Bon Accord.

    Lastly, the kilt in the illustration is nothing like the Gordon Highlanders'. In fact it doesn't look like a tartan at all. The Gordon Highlanders' tartan is dark blue with green and yellow borders.

    https://www.startpage.com/av/proxy-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tommysmilitaria.com%2Fupload%2Fimages%2Fshopprod%2F11258%2Fww2-gordon-highlanders-british-army-kilt-1939_11258_main_size3.jpg&sp=1664942740T982ccb2cfd9f13545aa993f5531bfe253037e4aa31c58617e18d6c5e1d45a61e

    Conclusion.
    Weegie manufacturer creates revolutionary new product. He or someone else later attaches the Gordon Highlander fable to its creation and it becomes a Victorian urban myth.

  59. @Verymuchalive
    @Graham

    There is plenty of evidence of coffee drinking in accounts by British explorers of earlier periods.

    I take your point. But Tea was overwhelmingly popular from the early 19th Century until about the 1960s. So Anderson would have been highly unusual for an explorer in the mid- to late-Victorian period.
    I can't find anything biographical about Andrew Arthur Anderson. All it says is floruit 1860-90.
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F270205

    If he were a bona fide explorer, you would think there would be an entry in some dictionary of national biography or whatever. There doesn't seem to be. So maybe he was just a colonial who published some tall tales about his fictitious life as an explorer. I would be grateful if any commenter could provide me with further details of Anderson's life.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    • Thanks: Verymuchalive
    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    @YetAnotherAnon

    It would be interesting to see the same view today. No doubt massive mining would have taken its toll. But I'm sure the consequences of the Most Important Graph in the World would be much more obvious.

  60. @J.Ross
    We have all seen that photograph in biological textbooks of the African village where everyone makes the Spock sign with their deformed toes. Africa is the land of inbreeding as well as the land of disease. And what disease and inbreeding doesn't do they effect with jewelry. One day God will demand of us, when you were alive, why didn't you conquer and nurture Africa? What was ever done to you, that you would allow the African to be governed by an African?

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind

    The answer to that question is easy. Joseph Conrad wrote a book it.

    Tropical disease.

  61. @Cato
    @Peter Frost

    Thor Heyerdahl believed that the Polynesian islands had seen three waves of colonization, the first being a dark-skinned pygmy people, like the Negritos of Southeast Asia. He developed this idea from studying the folklore of the final-wave Polynesian settlers. It is interesting that folklore almost universally contains more human biodiversity than we see in the contemporary world.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind

    Thor Heyerdahl believed in a lot of things, now, didn’t he?

    The thing I don’t “get” about Mr. Heyerdahl is that he was the object of admiring attention from National Geographic, but the scholarly community has never held his theories of human migration as the subject of an episode of the Joe Rogan Experience. Interesting, fascinating, but not science?

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Inquiring Mind


    Thor Heyerdahl believed in a lot of things, now, didn’t he?
     
    His journey was used in an advertisement by the National Company for their NC-173 shortwave receiver.

    https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/QST_nc173ad.JPG


    The National NC-173 is a post-war (1947) general coverage Broadcast, HF and 6-meter receiver. It cost $189.50 new with speaker. The bandspread tuning dial is calibrated for the ham bands. The NC-173 accompanied the Thor Heyerdahl "Kon-Tiki" expedition according to an ad by National (see below) run in Radio-News (10-47) as well as in QST. The expedition used dry batteries for power. In checking power requirements for this receiver, I was a bit surprised that they could run it on batteries. However, other than the filament requirements, I found I could still get speaker volume on international short-wave broadcasts with as little as 35 to 40 volts of B+ supplied externally. The receiver's current draw at 35 volts of B+ was only about 11 milliamps. I am sure this can be done with other receivers of this type, but reading the ad aroused my curiosity and I was a bit amazed by the result. In reading about the expedition in the 12-47 issue of QST, it was the filament requirements for this receiver which became a problem. Some of the "B" batteries were opened to supply the filament power.

    Since doing this experiment, I have found a letter ad from National in the February, 1942 QST indicating the current for various B+ voltages when the National NC-200, the HRO, and a couple of other sets are run from battery power in an emergency. The ad was in response to possible emergencies coincident with the US entry into World War II.

    In his book "Kon-Tiki" (Rand-McNally 1950, p. 263), Heyerdahl describes the NC-173 slowly drying out on an uninhabited South Sea island after getting soaked in the shipwreck of the Kon-Tiki, gradually receiving at higher and higher frequencies towards the ham band segment they needed for their contact (13.990 MHz was mentioned earlier in the book). They finally managed to send an "all well, all well" to their ham contacts so as to avoid a massive rescue attempt.

    Heyerdahl writes, "We set about putting together the soaked radio apparatus; we must do it quickly so that Torstein and Knut might get on the air before the man on Rarotonga sent out a report of our sad end."... "Coils and radio parts lay drying in the tropical sun on slabs of coral. .. The whole day passed and the atmosphere grew more and more hectic. The rest of us ... crowded round the radio in the hope of being able to give assistance. We must be on the air before 10 P.M. Then the thirty-six hours' time limit would be up, and the radio amateur on Rarotonga would send out appeals for airplane and relief expeditions. ... Seven o'clock, eight, nine. The tension was at the breaking point. Not a sign of life in the transmitter, but the receiver, an NC-173, began to liven up somewhere at the bottom of the scale and we heard faint music. But not on the amateur wavelength. It was eating its way up; perhaps it was a wet coil that was drying inward from one end. ... The transmitter was as dumb as ever, but the receiver was sputtering upward toward the right wave length. Suddenly it crackled on the Rarotonga man's frequency."

    Heyerdahl continued the story. They were finally able to get their small back-up transmitter powered by a hand-cranked generator to function and sent the "All well" message from LI2B. The small back-up transmitter was a British Mark II "spy set" from World War II. A picture of the equipment in use on the island appears in Heyerdahl's book. The hand-cranked generator pictured appears to be a U.S. Military Signal Corps GN-45 or 58.

    https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/NC173.htm

     

    , @Cato
    @Inquiring Mind

    Heyerdahl was wrong in his hypotheses about the peopling of Polynesia. The linguistic evidence, and now the genetic evidence, show that Polynesians emanated from the Malay archipelago. But Heyerdahl -- what a man he was! Sailing across empty seas in primitive craft, before satellite communications!

    All of us in social science make guesses about how the world works, and we are usually wrong -- it can't be helped; the world is so complicated and human cognition so limited. The great thing is that later on, someone will correct us so that human knowledge advances. As happened to Heyerdahl.

    My comment was not so much about Heyerdahl, but about the weird people Polynesians claimed to remember as the first inhabitants of their islands.

  62. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Verymuchalive

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Coffee

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/XG1CiGSCTzqb05nDwIhhjg

    https://i.etsystatic.com/5891243/r/il/a0b917/3376939362/il_fullxfull.3376939362_386h.jpg


    An original 'Camp Coffee' label. The Paterson Company of Glasgow was catapulted to fame with the world's first instant coffee in 1876: Camp Coffee (an essence of coffee-beans, chicory and sugar poured from a distinctive bottle). The origin of Camp Coffee is believed to have come from a request from the Gordon Highlanders to Campbell Paterson for a coffee drink that could be used easily by the army on field campaigns in India. The regular process of grinding and brewing coffee beans was too complicated and time consuming for a military field kitchen. The creation of a liquid Camp Coffee provided a simpler method. Originally the picture depicted the Sikh as carrying a tray of coffee -- an intermediate version, with the Sikh standing but the tray missing; it is widely believed that this was changed to avoid the imperialist connotations of the Sikh as a servant.The new label is a drawing of a Gordon Highlander soldier and a Sikh soldier sitting down together outside a tent, from which flies a flag carrying the drink's slogan, "Ready Aye Ready".
     

    Replies: @Jack D, @Verymuchalive

    The Sikh has now been promoted to equal status – he sits side by side with the white guy. I dunno who serves them, probably some illegal alien or maybe a white college grad with a worthless degree:

    https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2012/01/03/09/coffee100906_228x531.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&quality=50&crop=968%3A645%2Csmart

    BTW, is it me or is the quality of the artwork getting worse?

    The soldiers of the Union Army had no problem brewing coffee in the field. The Confederates would have too , if they had been able to get coffee beans. Coffee with chicory (which is what Camp Coffee is) remains popular in New Orleans – chicory was a coffee substitute made from roasted and ground chicory roots (chicory is a lettuce like vegetable).

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    The Sikh has now been promoted to equal status – he sits side by side with the white guy.
     
    As Britain has a not inconsiderable Sikh population now, that evolution in the picture on the label was likely inevitable.

    The British in India had great respect for the Sikhs, after besting them in the Anglo-Sikh wars of the 1840s. They created the Sikh regiment of the British Indian Army in 1846, the better to utilize their fighting prowess and gain their loyalty.

    The Sikh regiment units did prove to be very loyal to the British crown in the Indian rebellion of 1857 and fought alongside the Highland units in quelling the native rebels.

    In the classification used by the British to recruit for their army over there, Sikhs were considered to be one of the "martial races" of the sub-continent, along with the Gurkha mountain warriors from Nepal.

    A good book on the topic is Martial Races: The Military, Race and Masculinity in British Imperial Culture, 1857-1914 by Heather Streets.


    The story of the Sikhs and the British has a depressing but predictable recent footnote. The Sikhs fought under General Henry Havelock in quelling that major uprising in Northern India. But a couple of years ago, Havelock Road in London's Southall area, which has a large concentration of Sikhs, was renamed after the founder of the Sikh religion. City councillors felt that the name of the "colonial oppressor" was inappropriate for a road that ran through that neighborhood.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @mc23

    , @Brutusale
    @Jack D


    BTW, is it me or is the quality of the artwork getting worse?
     
    IIRC, Heinlein thought that, over his lifetime, fine art had gotten progressively worse while commercial art had improved. Commercial art today, however, has been ruined by every barista/graphic artist with a MacBook and a paid Photoshop subscription.

    The percentage of talented creative people doesn't scale.

  63. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Verymuchalive

    http://www.artnet.com/artists/andrew-arthur-anderson/troops-crossing-at-mr-c-deveralls-ferry-on-the-9ysNfVflt7cTzGsB8fG1DQ2

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    It would be interesting to see the same view today. No doubt massive mining would have taken its toll. But I’m sure the consequences of the Most Important Graph in the World would be much more obvious.

  64. @Inquiring Mind
    @Cato

    Thor Heyerdahl believed in a lot of things, now, didn't he?

    The thing I don't "get" about Mr. Heyerdahl is that he was the object of admiring attention from National Geographic, but the scholarly community has never held his theories of human migration as the subject of an episode of the Joe Rogan Experience. Interesting, fascinating, but not science?

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @Cato

    Thor Heyerdahl believed in a lot of things, now, didn’t he?

    His journey was used in an advertisement by the National Company for their NC-173 shortwave receiver.

    The National NC-173 is a post-war (1947) general coverage Broadcast, HF and 6-meter receiver. It cost $189.50 new with speaker. The bandspread tuning dial is calibrated for the ham bands. The NC-173 accompanied the Thor Heyerdahl “Kon-Tiki” expedition according to an ad by National (see below) run in Radio-News (10-47) as well as in QST. The expedition used dry batteries for power. In checking power requirements for this receiver, I was a bit surprised that they could run it on batteries. However, other than the filament requirements, I found I could still get speaker volume on international short-wave broadcasts with as little as 35 to 40 volts of B+ supplied externally. The receiver’s current draw at 35 volts of B+ was only about 11 milliamps. I am sure this can be done with other receivers of this type, but reading the ad aroused my curiosity and I was a bit amazed by the result. In reading about the expedition in the 12-47 issue of QST, it was the filament requirements for this receiver which became a problem. Some of the “B” batteries were opened to supply the filament power.

    Since doing this experiment, I have found a letter ad from National in the February, 1942 QST indicating the current for various B+ voltages when the National NC-200, the HRO, and a couple of other sets are run from battery power in an emergency. The ad was in response to possible emergencies coincident with the US entry into World War II.

    In his book “Kon-Tiki” (Rand-McNally 1950, p. 263), Heyerdahl describes the NC-173 slowly drying out on an uninhabited South Sea island after getting soaked in the shipwreck of the Kon-Tiki, gradually receiving at higher and higher frequencies towards the ham band segment they needed for their contact (13.990 MHz was mentioned earlier in the book). They finally managed to send an “all well, all well” to their ham contacts so as to avoid a massive rescue attempt.

    Heyerdahl writes, “We set about putting together the soaked radio apparatus; we must do it quickly so that Torstein and Knut might get on the air before the man on Rarotonga sent out a report of our sad end.”… “Coils and radio parts lay drying in the tropical sun on slabs of coral. .. The whole day passed and the atmosphere grew more and more hectic. The rest of us … crowded round the radio in the hope of being able to give assistance. We must be on the air before 10 P.M. Then the thirty-six hours’ time limit would be up, and the radio amateur on Rarotonga would send out appeals for airplane and relief expeditions. … Seven o’clock, eight, nine. The tension was at the breaking point. Not a sign of life in the transmitter, but the receiver, an NC-173, began to liven up somewhere at the bottom of the scale and we heard faint music. But not on the amateur wavelength. It was eating its way up; perhaps it was a wet coil that was drying inward from one end. … The transmitter was as dumb as ever, but the receiver was sputtering upward toward the right wave length. Suddenly it crackled on the Rarotonga man’s frequency.”

    Heyerdahl continued the story. They were finally able to get their small back-up transmitter powered by a hand-cranked generator to function and sent the “All well” message from LI2B. The small back-up transmitter was a British Mark II “spy set” from World War II. A picture of the equipment in use on the island appears in Heyerdahl’s book. The hand-cranked generator pictured appears to be a U.S. Military Signal Corps GN-45 or 58.

    https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/NC173.htm

  65. @mc23
    Could severe inbreeding account for this, especially in very small groups?

    Replies: @Real Elliot Page

    It’s not severe inbreeding, it’s severe outbreeding. African authorities claim, in the modern era, that there are rare instances of human-lesser-ape hybrids. Google it, it has made headlines. You can have basically 2 responses to this:

    1. Wow, the pictures combined with eye-witness accounts and the testimony of African officials is convincing that sub Saharan Africans (possibly all racial types or possibly only sub-Saharans) can hybridize with lesser apes, and in some cases have done so.

    2. The testimony of Africans, including at the state level, is highly unreliable and I do not believe it. This is basically relegating *all of them to ignorant ape-man status, if their testimony and reasoning has less validity than a child’s.

    The shoddy tools and clothes carried by this small tribe, were not made by them, but gleaned from another tribe who were probably killed and left lying with their tools. Why does every white person reading the original account immediately dismiss the explanation of the Bushmen, that the little ones were not men but apes? Tribal recognition is extremely important to men who live without the artiface of modernity. If anyone would know human from ape, it would be the Bushman.

    https://guardian.ng/news/genetic-makeup-of-12-year-old-angolan-boy-in-dispute/

    • Replies: @Mitchell Porter
    @Real Elliot Page

    You might want to find better evidence than that alleged Angolan story. It quotes Angola's president and yet there's no trace of it on actual Angolan news sites.

  66. Another case of possible outbreeding. In this case the authorities simply claim microcephaly, however, that does not explain this individual’s naturalistic ape-like behavior. In any case, the forehead is as described in the OP.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/13339623/real-mowgli-jungle-walks-20-miles-villagers-bully/amp/

    • Replies: @Veteran Aryan
    @Real Elliot Page


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/13339623/real-mowgli-jungle-walks-20-miles-villagers-bully/amp/
     
    Your link is screwy. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13339623/real-mowgli-jungle-walks-20-miles-villagers-bully/amp/
  67. @Inquiring Mind
    @Cato

    Thor Heyerdahl believed in a lot of things, now, didn't he?

    The thing I don't "get" about Mr. Heyerdahl is that he was the object of admiring attention from National Geographic, but the scholarly community has never held his theories of human migration as the subject of an episode of the Joe Rogan Experience. Interesting, fascinating, but not science?

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @Cato

    Heyerdahl was wrong in his hypotheses about the peopling of Polynesia. The linguistic evidence, and now the genetic evidence, show that Polynesians emanated from the Malay archipelago. But Heyerdahl — what a man he was! Sailing across empty seas in primitive craft, before satellite communications!

    All of us in social science make guesses about how the world works, and we are usually wrong — it can’t be helped; the world is so complicated and human cognition so limited. The great thing is that later on, someone will correct us so that human knowledge advances. As happened to Heyerdahl.

    My comment was not so much about Heyerdahl, but about the weird people Polynesians claimed to remember as the first inhabitants of their islands.

  68. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Verymuchalive

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Coffee

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/XG1CiGSCTzqb05nDwIhhjg

    https://i.etsystatic.com/5891243/r/il/a0b917/3376939362/il_fullxfull.3376939362_386h.jpg


    An original 'Camp Coffee' label. The Paterson Company of Glasgow was catapulted to fame with the world's first instant coffee in 1876: Camp Coffee (an essence of coffee-beans, chicory and sugar poured from a distinctive bottle). The origin of Camp Coffee is believed to have come from a request from the Gordon Highlanders to Campbell Paterson for a coffee drink that could be used easily by the army on field campaigns in India. The regular process of grinding and brewing coffee beans was too complicated and time consuming for a military field kitchen. The creation of a liquid Camp Coffee provided a simpler method. Originally the picture depicted the Sikh as carrying a tray of coffee -- an intermediate version, with the Sikh standing but the tray missing; it is widely believed that this was changed to avoid the imperialist connotations of the Sikh as a servant.The new label is a drawing of a Gordon Highlander soldier and a Sikh soldier sitting down together outside a tent, from which flies a flag carrying the drink's slogan, "Ready Aye Ready".
     

    Replies: @Jack D, @Verymuchalive

    Thanks for the connection, but I’m going to have to disappoint you.

    Although the ‘Gordon Highlanders’ had existed as the 92nd (Gordon Highlanders) Regiment of Foot since 1794, the actual ‘Gordon Highlanders Regiment’ was formed in 1881 by amalgamation of the 75th (Stirlingshire) Regiment of Foot and 92nd (Gordon Highlanders) Regiment of Foot.

    If the story is true – which I doubt – the request in 1876 came from the 92nd ( Gordon Highlanders) Regiment of Foot. Secondly, they were an Aberdeen regiment, so it would be unlikely they would make this request to a Glasgow manufacturer. It would be much more convenient to ask an Aberdeen manufacturer.

    Thirdly, Ready Aye Ready was the motto of ( Glasgow ) Rangers Football Club – founded 1872. It has since been shortened to Ready. Aberdeen’s is Bon Accord.

    Lastly, the kilt in the illustration is nothing like the Gordon Highlanders’. In fact it doesn’t look like a tartan at all. The Gordon Highlanders’ tartan is dark blue with green and yellow borders.

    https://www.startpage.com/av/proxy-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tommysmilitaria.com%2Fupload%2Fimages%2Fshopprod%2F11258%2Fww2-gordon-highlanders-british-army-kilt-1939_11258_main_size3.jpg&sp=1664942740T982ccb2cfd9f13545aa993f5531bfe253037e4aa31c58617e18d6c5e1d45a61e

    Conclusion.
    Weegie manufacturer creates revolutionary new product. He or someone else later attaches the Gordon Highlander fable to its creation and it becomes a Victorian urban myth.

  69. @Jack D
    @YetAnotherAnon

    The Sikh has now been promoted to equal status - he sits side by side with the white guy. I dunno who serves them, probably some illegal alien or maybe a white college grad with a worthless degree:

    https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2012/01/03/09/coffee100906_228x531.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&quality=50&crop=968%3A645%2Csmart

    BTW, is it me or is the quality of the artwork getting worse?

    The soldiers of the Union Army had no problem brewing coffee in the field. The Confederates would have too , if they had been able to get coffee beans. Coffee with chicory (which is what Camp Coffee is) remains popular in New Orleans - chicory was a coffee substitute made from roasted and ground chicory roots (chicory is a lettuce like vegetable).

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Brutusale

    The Sikh has now been promoted to equal status – he sits side by side with the white guy.

    As Britain has a not inconsiderable Sikh population now, that evolution in the picture on the label was likely inevitable.

    The British in India had great respect for the Sikhs, after besting them in the Anglo-Sikh wars of the 1840s. They created the Sikh regiment of the British Indian Army in 1846, the better to utilize their fighting prowess and gain their loyalty.

    The Sikh regiment units did prove to be very loyal to the British crown in the Indian rebellion of 1857 and fought alongside the Highland units in quelling the native rebels.

    In the classification used by the British to recruit for their army over there, Sikhs were considered to be one of the “martial races” of the sub-continent, along with the Gurkha mountain warriors from Nepal.

    A good book on the topic is Martial Races: The Military, Race and Masculinity in British Imperial Culture, 1857-1914 by Heather Streets.

    The story of the Sikhs and the British has a depressing but predictable recent footnote. The Sikhs fought under General Henry Havelock in quelling that major uprising in Northern India. But a couple of years ago, Havelock Road in London’s Southall area, which has a large concentration of Sikhs, was renamed after the founder of the Sikh religion. City councillors felt that the name of the “colonial oppressor” was inappropriate for a road that ran through that neighborhood.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @PiltdownMan

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMQrdEMBbW4

    , @mc23
    @PiltdownMan

    The British Army certain recruited certain Indian ethnicities and castes as warrior material, dividing Indians into “martial” and “non-martial” groups.
    The modern Indian army still follows this practice.


    https://scroll.in/article/811303/why-the-indian-army-needs-to-abandon-the-colonial-concept-of-martial-races

  70. @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    The Sikh has now been promoted to equal status – he sits side by side with the white guy.
     
    As Britain has a not inconsiderable Sikh population now, that evolution in the picture on the label was likely inevitable.

    The British in India had great respect for the Sikhs, after besting them in the Anglo-Sikh wars of the 1840s. They created the Sikh regiment of the British Indian Army in 1846, the better to utilize their fighting prowess and gain their loyalty.

    The Sikh regiment units did prove to be very loyal to the British crown in the Indian rebellion of 1857 and fought alongside the Highland units in quelling the native rebels.

    In the classification used by the British to recruit for their army over there, Sikhs were considered to be one of the "martial races" of the sub-continent, along with the Gurkha mountain warriors from Nepal.

    A good book on the topic is Martial Races: The Military, Race and Masculinity in British Imperial Culture, 1857-1914 by Heather Streets.


    The story of the Sikhs and the British has a depressing but predictable recent footnote. The Sikhs fought under General Henry Havelock in quelling that major uprising in Northern India. But a couple of years ago, Havelock Road in London's Southall area, which has a large concentration of Sikhs, was renamed after the founder of the Sikh religion. City councillors felt that the name of the "colonial oppressor" was inappropriate for a road that ran through that neighborhood.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @mc23

  71. @Real Elliot Page
    @mc23

    It's not severe inbreeding, it's severe outbreeding. African authorities claim, in the modern era, that there are rare instances of human-lesser-ape hybrids. Google it, it has made headlines. You can have basically 2 responses to this:

    1. Wow, the pictures combined with eye-witness accounts and the testimony of African officials is convincing that sub Saharan Africans (possibly all racial types or possibly only sub-Saharans) can hybridize with lesser apes, and in some cases have done so.

    2. The testimony of Africans, including at the state level, is highly unreliable and I do not believe it. This is basically relegating *all of them to ignorant ape-man status, if their testimony and reasoning has less validity than a child's.


    The shoddy tools and clothes carried by this small tribe, were not made by them, but gleaned from another tribe who were probably killed and left lying with their tools. Why does every white person reading the original account immediately dismiss the explanation of the Bushmen, that the little ones were not men but apes? Tribal recognition is extremely important to men who live without the artiface of modernity. If anyone would know human from ape, it would be the Bushman.

    https://guardian.ng/news/genetic-makeup-of-12-year-old-angolan-boy-in-dispute/

    Replies: @Mitchell Porter

    You might want to find better evidence than that alleged Angolan story. It quotes Angola’s president and yet there’s no trace of it on actual Angolan news sites.

  72. @Jack D
    @YetAnotherAnon

    The Sikh has now been promoted to equal status - he sits side by side with the white guy. I dunno who serves them, probably some illegal alien or maybe a white college grad with a worthless degree:

    https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2012/01/03/09/coffee100906_228x531.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&quality=50&crop=968%3A645%2Csmart

    BTW, is it me or is the quality of the artwork getting worse?

    The soldiers of the Union Army had no problem brewing coffee in the field. The Confederates would have too , if they had been able to get coffee beans. Coffee with chicory (which is what Camp Coffee is) remains popular in New Orleans - chicory was a coffee substitute made from roasted and ground chicory roots (chicory is a lettuce like vegetable).

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Brutusale

    BTW, is it me or is the quality of the artwork getting worse?

    IIRC, Heinlein thought that, over his lifetime, fine art had gotten progressively worse while commercial art had improved. Commercial art today, however, has been ruined by every barista/graphic artist with a MacBook and a paid Photoshop subscription.

    The percentage of talented creative people doesn’t scale.

  73. @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    The Sikh has now been promoted to equal status – he sits side by side with the white guy.
     
    As Britain has a not inconsiderable Sikh population now, that evolution in the picture on the label was likely inevitable.

    The British in India had great respect for the Sikhs, after besting them in the Anglo-Sikh wars of the 1840s. They created the Sikh regiment of the British Indian Army in 1846, the better to utilize their fighting prowess and gain their loyalty.

    The Sikh regiment units did prove to be very loyal to the British crown in the Indian rebellion of 1857 and fought alongside the Highland units in quelling the native rebels.

    In the classification used by the British to recruit for their army over there, Sikhs were considered to be one of the "martial races" of the sub-continent, along with the Gurkha mountain warriors from Nepal.

    A good book on the topic is Martial Races: The Military, Race and Masculinity in British Imperial Culture, 1857-1914 by Heather Streets.


    The story of the Sikhs and the British has a depressing but predictable recent footnote. The Sikhs fought under General Henry Havelock in quelling that major uprising in Northern India. But a couple of years ago, Havelock Road in London's Southall area, which has a large concentration of Sikhs, was renamed after the founder of the Sikh religion. City councillors felt that the name of the "colonial oppressor" was inappropriate for a road that ran through that neighborhood.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @mc23

    The British Army certain recruited certain Indian ethnicities and castes as warrior material, dividing Indians into “martial” and “non-martial” groups.
    The modern Indian army still follows this practice.

    https://scroll.in/article/811303/why-the-indian-army-needs-to-abandon-the-colonial-concept-of-martial-races

  74. @Real Elliot Page
    Another case of possible outbreeding. In this case the authorities simply claim microcephaly, however, that does not explain this individual's naturalistic ape-like behavior. In any case, the forehead is as described in the OP.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/13339623/real-mowgli-jungle-walks-20-miles-villagers-bully/amp/

    Replies: @Veteran Aryan

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