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From Criminology:

The American racial divide in fear of the police

Justin T. Pickett, Amanda Graham, Francis T. Cullen
First published: 08 January 2022 https://doi.org/10.1111/1745-9125.12298

Abstract
The mission of policing is “to protect and serve,” but recent events suggest that many Americans, and especially Black Americans, do not feel protected from the police. Understanding police-related fear is important because it may impact civilians’ health, daily lives, and policy attitudes. To examine the prevalence, sources, and consequences of both personal and altruistic fear of the police, we surveyed a nationwide sample (N = 1,150), which included comparable numbers of Black (N = 517) and White (N = 492) respondents. Most White respondents felt safe, but most Black respondents lived in fear of the police killing them and hurting their family members. Approximately half of Black respondents preferred to be robbed or burglarized than to have unprovoked contact with officers. The racial divide in fear was mediated by past experiences with police mistreatment. In turn, fear mediated the effects of race and past mistreatment on support for defunding the police and intentions to have “the talk” with family youths about the need to distrust and avoid officers. The deep American racial divide in police-related fear represents a racially disparate health crisis and a primary obstacle to law enforcement’s capacity to serve all communities equitably.

The full paper is expensive, so I didn’t check to see whether black respondents were asked if they are also afraid of other blacks killing them or if they are OK with that.

 
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  1. PaceLaw says:

    “ . . . but most Black respondents lived in fear of the police killing them and hurting their family members.”

    This statement is unbelievably sad. The reality is that in just about every one of the police killings of a black person, the black guy is actively resisting and/or running away from the police. It’s that simple. If blacks learned the basic ability of not trying to run/fight the police, then there would hardly be any police-on-black killings. It appears that blacks have been so thoroughly manipulated by the media that they do not understand reality.

  2. Gee, whatever can we do to reassure blacks?

    Funny how I’ve stopped caring.

    • Agree: AndrewR, magilla
  3. Maybe they’re more afraid of what the other Blacks would do to them for snitching.

    • Agree: Voltarde, Unit472, Shel100
  4. 1) @Isteve, do you want the paper if I can get it?

    2) They should have asked the following questions

    How many unarmed Blacks were killed in 2019, 2020?

    a) 10
    b)100
    c 1000
    d 10 000

    then correlate the number of killings with the level of fear. The correct number is a) around 10.

    If the level of misinformation correlates with fear, then we can blame media lies and politician’s lies to cause fear and distress in Blacks.

    Then we can also ask how many Blacks get killed by other Blacks and see if the information corresponds remotely to the facts.

    • Agree: ic1000, res
    • Thanks: Hangnail Hans
    • Replies: @Elli
    , @Bill Jones
    , @Shel100
  5. Wilkey says:

    If our disagreements on how we’d like to be governed are so severe then perhaps blacks and whites should live in separate countries. Just a thought.

    • Agree: usNthem
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  6. The mission of policing is “to protect and serve,”

    The “protect” part is self-explanatory. But what’s the “service” part about? Am I allowed to ask them to get me coffee and donuts or something. Or maybe they consider that giving you a free ride to jail is a “service.”

    Approximately half of Black respondents preferred to be robbed or burglarized than to have unprovoked contact with officers.

    I think “unprovoked contact with officers” must be a euphemism for a ride downtown in handcuffs when you dindu nothin’. It’s unsurprising that’s not a popular option.

  7. Funny. I didn’t see this study. I guess I let my subscription to “The Journal of Irreproducible Results” lapse.

    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  8. @Hypnotoad666

    The number of people of a certain color who have warrants out for easy to avoid things is astounding.

    • Replies: @CJ
  9. @Colin Wright

    Gee, whatever can we do to reassure blacks?

    Funny how I’ve stopped caring.

    In this case there is a perfectly good self-interested reason to care. It’s surely better to have fewer sullen, white-hating blacks roaming around, and if one of the reasons they are so sullen and white-hating is that they cops are hunting them for no good reason, then it makes sense to try and enlighten them about the reality of blacks and cops. (No mean feat, to be sure.)

    You really can’t hate the shitlib media enough for insisting on misreporting the facts on this issue.

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  10. @PaceLaw

    If blacks learned the basic ability of not trying to run/fight the police,

    News: most blacks are incapable of rational thinking.

  11. Elli says:
    @Sincerity.net

    The annual number of unarmed blacks shot and killed by police is around 10 recently. There are other ways to kill, like beating, tasing, suffocation, negligence.

    Not to mention “armed” can mean “had a knife in his pocket” or “had a gun in his car.” Or had a gun in her hand because she heard prowlers outside.

    The number of unarmed blacks killed by police is still probably under 100 but it isn’t 10.

  12. The assumption in this article and subsequent discussion is that Blacks are Americans, which is false.

    Once it’s understood that Blacks are not and have never been American, truly don’t feel American, and define themselves as Black by hatred of America, their disdain for functionaries of the American state follows naturally. Wouldn’t you hate an occupying foreign force in your neighborhood just as much?

    • Agree: AceDeuce
  13. @PaceLaw

    Maybe there should be fewer extrajudicial executions? Or maybe running away from the cops should not be a capital crime?

  14. In every single case of “arrested while being black” the individual “did not” comply with the officers orders…..it’s that f**king simple. If it happened, they would still be alive. Our liberal media always……and I mean ALWAYS fails to mention this when they’re “selling” news to the masses.
    I will never, ever, vote for a democrat again after seeing what they’ve done to our country.
    Thank you George Floyd for your sacrifice.

  15. Wokechoke says:
    @PaceLaw

    No, going to jail is a trauma. They can legitimately fear being processed by the system. Incarceration might as well be a death sentence in many cases.

    • Replies: @Forbes
  16. https://images.app.goo.gl/tnhXG8SSDsCBj1fN6

    Admiral Ackbar warned em.

    Do you think black respondents are aware that LEO’S are part of some executive branch level of government?

    The very government that promises to “protect and serve” their interests every 2 to 4 years, but wants to let their neighborhoods be terrorized for future goals of gentrification. Pelosi and AOC will have their own private police protection, while Detroit, Chicago, etc. continue the descent to Port-au-Prince.

  17. megabar says:

    Given how much black culture places an emphasis on respect, I imagine that black men hate contact with police officers because they are, essentially, being dissed.

  18. @Sincerity.net

    You might also ask if police kill more blacks than Whites.

    They are not a people renowned for their grasp of reality.

  19. Art Deco says:

    It’s not ‘mediated by past experiences’. It’s a function of buying into social myths.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  20. Then there’s the family structure, such as it is, down in the Hood. Baby Momma’s got a different last name than the one she was born with, or the one the guy she’s living with has. Each of her four kids has a different last name, none of which correspond to any of the three referenced above. She’s getting child support, sometimes, from two guys, neither of whom have last names matching any of the above.
    Black folk have a lot of cuzzins.
    Given the high violent crime rate in Da Cummooniddy, it’s no wonder that most of the respondents think a family member is in jeopardy when the cops arrive.

  21. @PaceLaw

    It doesn’t make sense until you understand that blacks are – and perceive themselves to be – a nation within a nation, that their racial identity is the most important thing to them, and that they see contacts with white cops (or cops of other races working on behalf of the white nation) as an intrusion into their internal affairs and breach of their black national sovereignty. Implicitly, when a black person imagines being robbed or burglarized (and many have had the experience), he imagines such an event being perpetrated by another black man. We have inter-racial crime data, but I would imagine that the number of whites who go into urban black neighborhoods at night to rob or burglarize is infinitesimal and likely zero. (This is why all but the most addled and steeped in left wing racial fantasies knew immediately that Jussie Smollett’s story was an obvious hoax).

    In contrast, whites can readily imagine robberies, home invasions, and burglaries perpetrated by blacks.

    • Agree: PaceLaw
    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    , @bomag
  22. Anon[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @PaceLaw

    “If blacks learned…” BZZT! Wrong conceptual universe, please try again.

  23. @Hypnotoad666

    The “service” of the cops is to bring in those accused of serious wrongdoing. Hopefully alive. The “protection” is for themselves.

    Abolish government funded “research”.

  24. Brutusale says:

    Half of blacks have IQs that approach room temperature. I’m supposed to care about their opinion?

  25. Unit472 says:

    I’d like to know if the responses were the same between male and female. It almost seems like this survey was of males only because it might be reasonable for 50% of negro males to have a greater fear of contact with the police than contact with another? negro criminal.

    The reason is simple. 50% of negro males are themselves ‘dirty’ of being involved in or having knowledge of some recent felony activity. It is also why negro suspects violently resist arrest even for a trivial charge like DWLS or possession of marijuana. They know they are dirty but they don’t know what the police know about them but, rightfully, fear the worst. Thus the minor arrest means be taken into custody and once at the police HQ meeting homicide, robbery, narcotics, etc. detectives who have some questions about the negro’s recent activity, whereabouts, knowledge about other negro criminals etc. All of this puts the negro in a very difficult situation as he runs the risk of being caught in a lie or having to give up another negro to get the heat off him!

    • Replies: @ic1000
  26. JimDandy says:

    I’m pretty sure I’ve read polls at Unz that show the exact opposite–blacks wanting more policing in their communities, etc.

    • Replies: @Afgkllfdrss
  27. @Colin Wright

    half of Black respondents preferred to be robbed or burglarized than to have unprovoked contact with officers.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if half of cops and taxpayers felt the same way.

    I.e., prefer blacks to be robbed/burgled than that they have contact with police, which has a way of being risky for police and expensive for taxpayers.

    And what’s with the word “unprovoked”? The survey writer probably meant it as “calling 911”, but the survey respondents probably understood it as “police shooting me in the back for carrying Skittles”.

    Of course, if blacks really mean that and aren’t just responding to the media zeitgeist, then this

    1) explains that all those pundits screaming to ignore rising murder because property crime is “down” have bad data, and

    2) implies that the solution to two so vastly different views of the role of police power is … separate countries.

  28. ic1000 says:

    Pickett et al.’s article is about black (cf. white) fear of police mistreatment. As a fair-use extract, I’ve pasted the authors’ account of their survey questions, below the fold.

    Throughout the paper there is no mention — none — of any statistics related to the frequency or severity of police conduct or mistreatment, on the basis of race, gender, or anything else.

    This is striking.

    By the same token, Criminology‘s editors and peer reviewers would praise my manuscript on YouGov survey responses to “Fear of drowning in a coastal flood” and “Fear of being killed by a tornado” — even though my paper avoided asking how far from the ocean a respondent lived, or whether tornadoes had ever been spotted in a respondent’s county of residence.

    Below the fold, I’ve copied the Discussion paragraph, which is the authors’ effort at tackling issues pertaining to the actual frequency of real police misconduct. This is also a fair-use extract.

    Even for a peer-reviewed paper as spectacular as this one, Figure 3 (“Disaggregated by Race, Socioeconomic Status, and Gender: Personal and Altruistic Fear of the Police”) is a standout.

    It shows that black females’ extremely high fear that the police will mistreat them, personally, is indistinguishable from the fear expressed by black males. The questions (below) are phrased to distinguish “personal” fear from “altruistic” fear.

    A Kinsley Gaffe that the authors, editiors, and reviewers missed. Do better next time.

    [MORE]

    Discussion

    Unfortunately, some observers are likely to dismiss Black Americans’ fears as exaggerated or even irrational, citing the small number of unarmed Black Americans killed by the police each year (e.g., Mac Donald, 2020). Such a dismissal misses the broader point. How many Black Americans are wrongfully arrested every year? How many are questioned or searched without good reason? How many are needlessly manhandled, pinned to the ground, or pepper-sprayed? Answers to these questions remain elusive, but countless experiments document racial discrimination in almost every area of life—job searches, Airbnb rentals, mortgage loans, public service inquiries, and so on (Edelman et al., 2017; Giulietti et al., 2019; Hanson et al., 2016; Quillian et al., 2017). Such experiments are difficult to conduct with officers, and thus the exact level of racial bias in policing is unknown, but there is little doubt about its existence (Knox et al., 2020). What distinguishes policing from other contexts is not that officers have some unique insensitivity to racial stereotyping, but rather that they have unparalleled discretion, legal authority, qualified immunity, and weapons. Black Americans also stand to lose much more from racial bias in policing than just a job opportunity or a vacation rental—they stand to lose their freedom or even life. Therefore, as long as any racial bias exists in policing, and as long as officers’ behavior is unpredictable (Fader, 2021; Weaver et al., 2019), Black Americans’ fear of the police is not irrational and the racial divide in fear is understandable.

    Additionally, a large body of qualitative research documents the habitual manner in which officers harass and treat Black Americans as suspects through pedestrian and traffic stops… [Pickett et al. then cite twelve academic papers with discussions of fourteen types of police misconduct, beginning with “pushing, shoving, punching, kicking, and the use of mace”.]

    – – – – –

    Data and Method, Section 4.1 | Fear of the police

    …To measure personal fear, we asked respondents about their emotional fear “that the police will do the following things to you without good reason in the next five years.” They rated how afraid they were (0 = very unafraid, 4 = very afraid) of falling victim to ten types of police mistreatment (e.g., “punch or kick you,” “pepper spray you,” or “kill you”). The full list of items and question wording are provided in the appendix. We averaged the ten items to construct an index (loadings: .823 to .958, α = .98) on which higher values indicated greater personal fear. To measure altruistic fear, we asked how often (0 = very rarely, 4 = very often) the respondents “worry about the police hurting the following people,” and listed seven groups (e.g., “your family members,” “your friends,” or “your neighbors”). The seven items were averaged to form an index (loadings: .714 to .877, α = .93) on which higher values indicated greater fear.

    – – – – –

    The Appendix gives the two questions as they were asked. (The authors re-coded answers so that higher scores indicated greater fear.)

    Question: Personal Fear of the Police

    Now, we want to ask about EMOTIONAL FEAR. How afraid or unafraid are you that the POLICE will do the following things to you WITHOUT GOOD REASON in the next five years?

    Items:
    1. Stop you
    2. Search you
    3. Yell at you
    4. Handcuff you
    5. Punch or kick you
    6. Pin you to the ground
    7. Pepper spray you
    8. Use a taser on you
    9. Shoot at you with a gun
    10. Kill you

    For each item, one answer: Very afraid, afraid, neither afraid nor unafraid, unafraid, very unafraid.

    – – – – –

    Question: Altruistic Fear of the Police

    How often or rarely do you WORRY about the POLICE hurting the following people?

    Items:
    1. Your family members
    2. Your friends
    3. Your neighbors
    4. Immigrants
    5. Black citizens
    6. Hispanic citizens
    7. Protesters

    For each item, one answer: Very often, often, sometimes, rarely, very rarely.

    • Thanks: res
    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
  29. Flip says:

    I’ve always heard that you are better off not calling the police in Mexico. It just makes things worse.

  30. Anon[252] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s something being left out. Half of all blacks have someone in the household with an active warrant out for their arrest. That’s how bad the black crime rate is. This is why they don’t call the cops even when they’re crime victims.

  31. countenance says: • Website

    Mass Formation Psychosis.

  32. @PaceLaw

    This statement is unbelievably sad. The reality is that in just about every one of the police killings of a black person, the black guy is actively resisting and/or running away from the police. It’s that simple. If blacks learned the basic ability of not trying to run/fight the police, then there would hardly be any police-on-black killings. It appears that blacks have been so thoroughly manipulated by the media that they do not understand reality.

    Blacks meshing with white civilizational norms was always “work” with high failure rates. (Ten thousand years of disparate and fast evolution isn’t nothing.) But in 1960 we were closer–ex. only about 25% black illegitimacy–to that, and specifically closer in that black elites thought that was what they and other blacks should be doing.

    The entire nasty minoritarian project has been to propagandize minority “oppression” in order to delegitimize normal white Christian people and culture. Basically a project of poisoning the well of inter-racial/inter-ethnic relations and then a bit later male-female relations. Nation wrecking from the inside out.

    After 60 years of a full court press–education, news media, Hollyweird–continually telling blacks that they are oppressed and whitey is out to get them–with comfy reward sinecures for blacks who partake and parrot and psychologically comfy excuses for losers–it’s hardly a big surprise pretty much all blacks are on board.

    • Agree: Hangnail Hans, PaceLaw
    • Thanks: Calvin Hobbes
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  33. ATBOTL says:

    We need to move past the idea that we are trying to work with blacks or win them over. We need to get what we want, whether blacks like it or not.

    • Agree: Right_On
  34. clyde says:

    I read accounts of x-box thievery twice a month. Since the owner gets emotionally attached to playing Madden on the box, he hunts down the thief, there is a tussle with guys dead or wounded.
    As in their community, the no good druggie cousin comes in one day when he knows the family is away, he steals their 2 new x-boxes. They know it was him, that they will get it back forcibly. So why get The Law involved? With the x-boxes taken away as evidence for two years.

  35. @PaceLaw

    This statement is unbelievably sad. The reality is that in just about every one of the police killings of a black person, the black guy is actively resisting and/or running away from the police. It’s that simple. If blacks learned the basic ability of not trying to run/fight the police, then there would hardly be any police-on-black killings.

    Also unbelievably sad is the widespread notion that such killings are common. In fact, there are hardly any. We just recently learned right here the number for last year: FOUR.

    It’s a small, easy number to remember. Now how many were killed by their own people? Thousands. How many cops did they kill? How many white people did they kill? Shut up racist!

    • Agree: PaceLaw
  36. @Wilkey

    If our disagreements on how we’d like to be governed are so severe then perhaps blacks and whites should live in separate countries. Just a thought.

    And it’s a great thought.

    Except … it isn’t just blacks.

    The disagreements between white Americans on how we’d like to be governed are also a chasm.

    American DOS blacks could fork off to a different country and we’d still be getting lectures about racism! sexism! Islamophobia! anti-Semitism! homophobia! xenophobia! transphobia! … and how utterly deplorable we are.

    The disagreements between white people about critical race theory, trannies, the rest of the LBGQWERTY crap, sexism!, family, fertility and most critically immigration are a yawning chasm that make the Grand Canyon a little ditch.

    And these very basic ideas about sex, family, fertility and immigration–basically “what is a nation” and “what is a well lived life”–are truly existential. There is simply no point being in a nation with people who wildly disagree. There is no point being in a nation with people who do not understand–or simply hate–the idea of a nation.

    • Agree: Kylie
  37. clyde says:

    That blacks fear the police is a con-job. Utter BS, especially these days. A smart cop tries to avoid getting enmeshed in black crime dramas. There is only downside for him these days.
    What blacks want in 100% non-involvement with the police. The honest ones, the no good thieving ones. They don’t want to be in the criminal justice system, as a witness or anything else. That is the white Man’s world.

    The white version is not wanting to see anything in your mailbox from the IRS or a lawyer. The only good stuff from the IRS is sent electronically anyways, refunds into your bank account.

  38. @ic1000

    Thanks.

    Black Americans also stand to lose much more from racial bias in policing than just a job opportunity or a vacation rental—they stand to lose their freedom or even life.

    Can’t help but notice that the authors grudgingly admit a couple of relevant, salient stats and then a few sentences later pretend just the opposite.

    And there’s that standby of current year journalism, the assertion that white people never have anything to worry about beyond trivial inconveniences.

  39. If there is a shitstorm between two Blacks in any given venue with, say about six Blacks present, chances are that at least one of the six (even if not directly involved in the shitstorm) has some messy and loose ends of business with the criminal justice system. That is the fear, just as it is to a large extent with Voter ID laws.

  40. @AnotherDad

    Further, the continued prosperity of this nation, or any nation, is dependent upon those who believe in traditional mores and the concept of a nation. Like anything, a nation or empire will crumble when its foundations are destroyed.

    • Agree: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @Bill
  41. The high tolerance for criminal activity is why they will continue to vote for Soros DAs. They are so far utterly unfazed by the elevated murder rates.

  42. Thomas says:

    I’ve said this before more than once here: blacks have been unambiguously communicating that a greater likelihood of criminal victimization by their own is preferable to being policed by outsiders.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  43. Just lost a dear black friend to covid .I asked him if he had ever had a positive interaction with police.He said once . As a young guy he had been shot by while playing football in the park over a recent brawl.It was a superficial wound and he was in and out of the hospital.
    That night his friend picked him up and told him he knew where the shooter was and handed him a pistol then drive to the spot. The guy is there in a movie theatre parking lot that was a weekend hangout . My buddy starts to roll down his window and raise up his pistol but sees a police car pull in the parking lot and stops…cop had no idea what he had stopped but my friend acknowledges that random cruiser probably signifigantly changed his life outcome in a positive way.

  44. @silviosilver

    ‘In this case there is a perfectly good self-interested reason to care. It’s surely better to have fewer sullen, white-hating blacks roaming around, and if one of the reasons they are so sullen and white-hating is that they cops are hunting them for no good reason, then it makes sense to try and enlighten them about the reality of blacks and cops. (No mean feat, to be sure.)…’

    I see your reasoning, but as it happens, it would appear blacks behave best when the police are hunting them, etc. See Jim Crow, the situation before about 1965, etc.

    Failing that, if they actually thought the police were hunting them, they might toe the line. It could be the next best thing.

    The situation right now is bullshit; they know they’re actually pretty safe, and we encourage them to act out.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  45. @Brutusale

    They keep the thermostat set at 80 degrees in the winter in their Section Eight apahrtmints. Give credit where credit is due for Chrissake.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  46. PaceLaw says:
    @Dave from Oz

    “Extrajudicial executions”??? You can’t be serious.

    Running away from the cops should most definitely be a crime. A capital crime? It depends on what the underlying offense was that the person ran away from the cops.

  47. Anon[384] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave from Oz

    When it comes to shooting fleeing suspects, the leeway and deference given to American police is, I believe, a bad policy. I don’t see it as a racial issue, and should be something most of us can agree on.

    • Agree: Right_On
  48. @Dave from Oz

    There are no extrajudicial executions, moron.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  49. PaceLaw says:
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    “It doesn’t make sense until you understand that blacks are – and perceive themselves to be – a nation within a nation . . . “

    Well said Alec! It does indeed seem that black folks do indeed view themselves as a nation within a nation more so than any other ethnic community. What other ethnic community demands its own national anthem and its own black Santas (yeah, it’s a thing). For this reason, I don’t see anything getting better concerning the black community for anytime in the near future. Their cultural habits and beliefs are so deeply ingrained that nothing will change them unless something cataclysmic happens.

  50. res says:
    @Elli

    Looks a lot closer to 10 than 100. Order 10 (meaning roughly 5-20 per year) seems like the right range.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americans_killed_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States

    Better data welcomed.

    P.S. Your “armed” point is a good one. But hard to quantify.

  51. ic1000 says:
    @Unit472

    > I’d like to know if the responses were the same between male and female.

    The paper’s Figure 3 covers that question (see my earlier comment). Black females’ fears that police will mistreat them, personally, WITHOUT GOOD REASON (caps in the survey question) is indistinguishable from black males’ fears.

    The survey results don’t show much linkage with the statistical realities of police-civilian encounters. That these academic authors and the African-American people who they quizzed live in scary fantasy worlds is “depressing,” to citizenists. As comments downthread show, these results are not “surprising” to separate-nationsists.

  52. @Elli

    On the other hand, even the number who are shot who are “unarmed” are not necessarily bad shootings. If an unarmed suspect resisting arrest is fighting the cop and trying to take his gun the cop can rightly shoot him. I’m betting the 10 or so unarmed who are shot are exactly that.
    How many unarmed blacks are shot every year in an un-justified shooting by a malicious cop? One? Zero?

  53. bomag says:
    @Dave from Oz

    Or maybe running away from the cops should not be a capital crime?

    Let’s make it one and try it for awhile. Then you can consider complaining about it.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
  54. bomag says:
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    It doesn’t make sense until you understand that blacks are – and perceive themselves to be – a nation within a nation…

    …who are at war with Whites.

    • Replies: @Bob C
  55. The racial and tribal loyalty of blacks is impressive.

    Often, I think the real problem is how little racial and tribal loyalty whites express.

    We whites are pushovers as a result. Our women are particularly awful about undermining white men.

  56. @Ben tillman

    There are no extrajudicial executions, moron.

    That’s what my neighbor Vito says.

    In public, anyway.

  57. @Wade Hampton

    Irreproducible

    Irreptoducibles need a smart logo, like this one:

  58. I don’t care if blacks fear being killed by other blacks — I’m 👌 with it.

  59. @JimDandy

    What they want should have absolutely no bearing on what they get. They should get what we want to give them.

  60. Gunsrfun says:
    @Elli

    I suspect your thought process is flawed.

  61. @Brutusale

    “Half of blacks have IQs that approach room temperature. I’m supposed to care about their opinion?”

    If we care about changing their behavior, then we might first ask whether their opinions influence their behavior. If they do, then maybe we should care about changing their opinions. If they don’t, then your skepticism is justified.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    , @Brutusale
  62. Bob C says: • Website

    an expensive paper not worth the paper its written on ?

  63. Bob C says:
    @bomag

    thanks to media and politicians and race pimps

  64. @Thomas

    I’ve said this before more than once here: blacks have been unambiguously communicating that a greater likelihood of criminal victimization by their own is preferable to being policed by outsiders.

    And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this preference. Wanting to be governed or policed by one’s own tribe is entirely natural.

    However, it is incompatible with “integration”. If this is blacks preference, then blacks need to be segregated in black communities that they run/police. Or blacks need their own separate nation.

    The basic logic here–which applies to all tales of minoritarian “oppression”–is very clear, and an absolute must for conservatives to articulate continuously, especially in response to any of these minority oppression dramas.

    “If you really believe you are oppressed then separate from us deplorable whites and manage your own affairs”.

  65. fnn says:
    @Dave from Oz

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

    Under U.S. law the fleeing felon rule was limited in 1985 to non-lethal force in most cases by Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1. The justices held that deadly force “may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others.”[2]

    A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead…however…Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force.

    — Justice Byron White, Tennessee v. Garner

  66. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Blacks meshing with white civilizational norms was always “work” with high failure rates. (Ten thousand years of disparate and fast evolution isn’t nothing.) But in 1960 we were closer–ex. only about 25% black illegitimacy–to that, and specifically closer in that black elites thought that was what they and other blacks should be doing.

    True enough. And then, 1968, Martin Luthor King was assassinated, much of Washington, DC was burned to the ground, NYC posted snipers on buildings, US troops occupied Washington, DC, Chicago, and Baltimore. Damage was about \$65 million in 1968 dollars. There was “violence” in 120 US cities, all told. ( Clay Risen, _Nation on Fire_, John Wiley & Sons, 2009). Disparity between White and Black had been dropping since WW II.

    In short, the Black population of the day were not happy with the pre-riot conditions. In contemporary language, they believe that they were not “White” and did not want to become “White”. It’s an essentially racist position, but, well, it was a first step towards the 2022 position that race is the only thing that matters.

    The Civil Rights Act essentially wrote that racism into fundamental American law, and subsequent judicial review has enforced that racism. It would seem that some form of racism is so thoroughly ingrained in the US government and ethnic mix that it is ineradicable. At this point, only the form of the racism can be changed, although the form might well end up being changed radically.

  67. Shel100 says:
    @Sincerity.net

    Blacks have never been very good at maff.

  68. @Colin Wright

    I see your reasoning, but as it happens, it would appear blacks behave best when the police are hunting them, etc. See Jim Crow, the situation before about 1965, etc.

    But that exacerbates the white cuck problem. At this stage of the game, it’s better to remove any possible excuses blacks might have, not so much in order to change their thinking, but to change white thinking. It’s a lot harder for whites to cuck if they see that every effort has been made to be fair to blacks, that “racism” isn’t to blame for their problems and misbehavior and anti-white rage.

  69. Charlotte says:
    @Elli

    According to the Washington Post database of police killings, four unarmed blacks were killed by police in 2021. Maybe that’s a record low? All were shot, one was also tased. The Lindani Myeni case in Hawaii got a lot of national media coverage. None of the others rung a bell, but the database provides links to news stories.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

    • Replies: @Cool Daddy Jimbo
  70. @Charlotte

    The WaPo has been doing that count for a few years now. They’re going to quit doing it. It makes the cops look too good. Deep inside they realize it’s easier for an unarmed black man to get struck by lightning than to be killed by the police.

  71. @Art Deco

    It’s not ‘mediated by past experiences’. It’s a function of buying into social myths.

    It may also be posturing rather than reality. Blacks call the cops pretty readily when they are victims of crime. Unfortunately, mishaps during the police response are also a leading source of ghetto lottery payouts. You gotta wonder if some of the callers are just buying a lottery ticket of sorts.

  72. This reinforces a point that I have made previously in various comments on Sailer’s blog: African Americans have a different average preference regarding the level of law enforcement and toleration for the associated level of crime and disorder in their neighborhoods. They want less strict law enforcement and will accept higher average crime/disorder associated with that choice. Trying to force white American preferences upon them in their own neighborhoods is a mistake.

    The police tip the balance strongly in the wrong direction: they impose much tighter law enforcement in black neighborhoods than in white neighborhoods; the level of police enforcement should be equal or weaker in black neighborhoods rather than much tighter. Policing authorities tilt the balance in the “wrong” direction in order to lower average crime rate statistics. They deliberately over-police high-crime black neighborhoods where they are not wanted and under-police low crime white neighborhoods where they are wanted. It is a mistake IMHO. If the policing level were per-capita across all neighborhoods, the average crime rate would go up but both communities would be happier.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  73. Batman says:
    @PaceLaw

    “If blacks learned the basic ability of not trying to run/fight the police, then there would hardly be any police-on-black killings. It appears that blacks have been so thoroughly manipulated by the media that they do not understand reality.”

    Your average black guy between the age of 12 and 40 can outrun just about any white guy, especially a white guy with a 10 lb utility belt full of oddly sized implements around his waist, and 6 lbs of body armor around his torso. The decision to resist arrest and run is a rational decision about the risk of being apprehended. Every serious criminologist since the Enlightenment (see Beccaria, On Crimes and Punishments (1764)) has agreed that criminals do a poor job weighing the expected value of their actions, and the severity of punishment has next to no deterrent effect vs. the risk of apprehension which has a large deterrent effect. Being a fast black dude significantly reduces the risk of apprehension, making the expected value calculation for running superduper tempting.

    Blacks fear the police, not because they fail to grasp that they have nothing to fear if they cooperate, but because they face incentives that strongly encourage them to resist arrest and run.

    • Agree: PaceLaw
    • Replies: @Bill
  74. @PaceLaw

    They have been manipulated by other blacks. Their mothers, grandmothers, preachers, teachers, even black cops.

    “The racial divide in fear was mediated by past experiences with police mistreatment. In turn, fear mediated the effects of race and past mistreatment on support for defunding the police and intentions to have ‘the talk’ with family youths about the need to distrust and avoid officers.”

    The black respondents lied. Very few of them were ever mistreated by policemen. It was their racist hatred that was uppermost in their “minds.” Thomas Jefferson talked about this over 200 years ago.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  75. @silviosilver

    That ship sailed a long time ago. White cucks are as irrational as black supremacists.

  76. CJ says:
    @Redneck farmer

    The number of people of a certain color who have warrants out for easy to avoid things is astounding.

    Yes, that’s a big motivation for avoiding contact with the police. It applies even to people who don’t themselves have a warrant out, but know or suspect their friends or relatives do. Then there are people who may not currently be wanted by the authorities, but are doing illegal things or possessing stolen property that they don’t want the police to see. The other big motivation is, of course, the “snitches get stitches” mentality among their neighbors.

  77. @silviosilver

    ‘But that exacerbates the white cuck problem. At this stage of the game, it’s better to remove any possible excuses blacks might have, not so much in order to change their thinking, but to change white thinking. It’s a lot harder for whites to cuck if they see that every effort has been made to be fair to blacks, that “racism” isn’t to blame for their problems and misbehavior and anti-white rage.’

    I think it actually works the other way. The more one kneels down to blacks, the more that becomes accepted as ‘normal.’

    People are perfectly capable of adapting to being oppressed victims of a dominant aristocracy. All you have to do is get them used to the idea.

    And getting used to the idea is what happens every time we accept black misbehavior.

  78. Freddy says:

    Dude,

    This ‘research’ must be a lie. There has been a lot of polling over ‘defund the police’ and those polls, from several sources, say that well over 80% of blacks want MORE police in their neighborhoods, especially in the high crime areas. So someone is lying, and I’m betting on these guys. This paper sounds like its from some Black Marxist/BLM race supremacists types. Any references to ‘melamine’ on the social media of the authors?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  79. Thurston says:

    @Steve Sailer: Per your “The full paper is expensive”. It appears that the full paper is downloadable here — https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/9hwv7/

  80. @AnotherDad

    If we had the demographics we had in 1960, the woke left wouldn’t have the votes to implement any of its agenda. The left are a minority of Whites, but when married with non-Whites, they are just a hair over 50%.

    So it is possible that we could control GoodWhite impulses in a White country. On the other hand, we failed to do so the first time around, but maybe we can learn from our mistakes. Yes, it was hard to write that last sentence with a straight face.

  81. @gutta percha

    Experience has shown that the 70-year experiment in treating blacks as full participants in White society is an utter failure. I no longer care about changing their behavior. I just want them gone.

  82. Brutusale says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    We’ll split the difference by averaging in the temperature outside.

    Or use the Celsius scale!

  83. Brutusale says:
    @gutta percha

    If you agree with my comment, then they’re not intelligent enough to have a cogent opinion on complex subjects.
    If you don’t agree with my comment, we have no common starting point to work toward a solution.

  84. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @Freddy

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-breaking-gun-control-law-is-a-victimless-crime-assuming/#comment-3144128

    The nice black church lady wants the police to arrest that boy on the next block who mugged her, but not her grandson who mugged the old lady on the next block. It’s an unresolvable problem.

  85. Bill says:
    @Batman

    Your average black guy between the age of 12 and 40 can outrun just about any white guy,

    Running from the police is not the 100 yard dash, and I doubt the claim is true for the 100 yard dash.

  86. Bill says:
    @AnotherDad

    American DOS blacks could fork off to a different country and we’d still be getting lectures about racism! sexism! Islamophobia! anti-Semitism! homophobia! xenophobia! transphobia! … and how utterly deplorable we are.

    And if we forked off GOP America, we would *still* be getting those lectures, just from National Review types. The problem is really bad and shows no signs of improving.

  87. Bill says:
    @Alice in Wonderland

    I wonder. America makes a lot of money off Hollywood and Silicon Valley, and those places are not exactly packed with “extreme right” Americans.

  88. Forbes says:
    @Wokechoke

    That must explain the revolving door of repeat offenders. As well, that must explain the roughly 8-to-1 rate of violent crimes when comparing blacks to whites, as reported by victims. Trauma and fear have an impact on conduct.

    Not.

  89. @Peter Johnson

    ‘…The police tip the balance strongly in the wrong direction: they impose much tighter law enforcement in black neighborhoods than in white neighborhoods…’

    ! Having lived and worked in both…you’re off your nut.

    To take one example, I used to have a moving business, which tended to involve the truck being parked in all sorts of legally questionable positions to facilitate loading and unloading. Whenever I got harassed by Officer Gociffer, it was always in a white community. Ditto for posting fliers, incidentally. Want to dump a mattress illegally? Find your nearest black neighborhood.

    You couldn’t be more wrong.

    • Replies: @Peter Johnson
  90. @Colin Wright

    I should have been clearer … the police impose much MORE (rather than much TIGHTER) law enforcement in black neighborhoods. Per capita, police car cruises, foot patrols and police presence are more obvious and frequent in black neighborhoods. The words “more enforcement” rather than “tighter enforcement” is clearer.

    Watch for the correlation-is-not-causation problem. Doctors tend to concentrate their activities much more in hospitals than in coffee shops, but that does not mean that there are more sick people wanting a doctor in coffee shops versus hospitals. Black neighborhoods have more crime but that does not mean that they have less police presence. They have very substantially more police presence; probably the balance has shifted too far in that direction relative to community preferences.

  91. ‘I should have been clearer … the police impose much MORE (rather than much TIGHTER) law enforcement in black neighborhoods. Per capita, police car cruises, foot patrols and police presence are more obvious and frequent in black neighborhoods. The words “more enforcement” rather than “tighter enforcement” is clearer.’

    We’re getting away from your original point, but the police probably should make a point of showing the flag in black communities.

    Being a population of sub-normal intelligence, blacks probably do need regular, visible reminding that they mustn’t misbehave. Indeed, back in the day — say, the 1990’s — it was still normal for communities bordering black ghettos to have cops conspicuously posted at the municipal boundary. For example, if you drove down East 14th from Oakland into San Leandro, there was always a cop car sitting there. Sure, you can come on in, but be good…

    Another point is that there are just fewer cops in white communities. Where I live now has plenty of poverty and drug use and vagrants — but it’s only 0.3% black. Not at all coincidentally, the police force is about half the size proportionate to the population that the police force was in the one-third black town I moved from.

    So sure you’ll see fewer cops here. There are fewer cops.

  92. @Nicholas Stix

    ‘…The black respondents lied. Very few of them were ever mistreated by policemen. It was their racist hatred that was uppermost in their “minds.” Thomas Jefferson talked about this over 200 years ago.’

    There’s also the illusion that ‘it was because I was black.’

    I can think of four or five encounters I’ve had with the police that went in ways displeasing to me, and not completely fair, to boot. One involved being abruptly hurled to the ground and handcuffed. Another involved being held against my will and interrogated for several hours.

    If I was black, I could have reasonably inferred that it was ‘because I was black.’ But I’m not. So it must have been just a matter of the officer being a dick.

  93. Polly Guidi says: • Website

    Turn Text to NFT Art in minutes:

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