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Coronavirus Class War Looming in Latin America?
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The U.S. media are trained when reporting on epidemics to be on the alert for any hint of the dreaded Stigmatization of the Marginalized. For example, the AIDS epidemic was largely spread by needle junkies and addicts devoted to anonymous sodomy, but practically nobody knows that anymore due to massive retconning.

Thus, back in winter the opinion pages started running cookie cutter opeds by young Asian women writers on the make about how they were being racistly stereotyped over the Wuhan virus.

Similarly, there seems to be some kind of embargo on data about race and ethnicity of people with the coronavirus. It’s easy to learn the sex and age of patients, but not race, whereas with most other topics (other than crime), race is widely trumpeted in the press. My guess is that decisions were made long ago to downplay race and nationality in collecting and publicizing epidemic numbers to avoid stereotyping the marginalized.

But what happens when an epidemic is spread not by the marginalized but by the elite? I’m not sure anybody has thought that through yet.

This L.A. Times article is probably projecting somewhat, but I suspect it will just be ahead of the curve of what could be a sizable class issue:

Some of Mexico’s wealthiest residents went to Colorado to ski. They brought home coronavirus

By KATE LINTHICUM STAFF WRITER
MARCH 20, 20205:12 PM

… Of Jalisco’s 27 confirmed coronavirus patients, 11 had been in Vail in recent weeks, the department said.

The frantic effort to find the ski trip participants has highlighted an uncomfortable fact: It is people wealthy enough to travel outside the country who have brought the coronavirus back to mostly poor Mexico. Yet if the disease spreads, it is those with the least who will probably suffer the most. …

What would happen if the epidemic hit marginalized communities on the outskirts of Mexico City, where some lack running water and many live several to a room and wouldn’t have the space to self-quarantine? What would happen if it hit a rural village in Oaxaca, hours from the nearest hospital?

“Until today, coronavirus in Mexico has been a problem for the elites,” wrote journalist Luis Manuel Arellano on Twitter. “Most infected people have financial solvency and good income. When we enter [the next phase], the epidemic will be something else — widespread and massive.”

Similar conversations are rippling across Latin America, which has some of the highest rates of inequality in the world and a long history of bitter conflicts between the working class and the economic and political elite. …

Class tensions have been particularly contentious in Mexico, where in 2018 a leftist populist won the presidency with widespread support from the country’s working class on his promise to put the poor first.

President Andrés Manuel López Obrador has maintained high levels of popular support but is disdained by many members of the educated and upper class who dislike his economic policies and folksy style.

They have particularly seized on his lax response to the coronavirus. López Obrador has repeatedly made light of the pandemic, continuing to greet supporters with hugs and kisses despite advice from his own health officials that Mexicans limit physical contact with one another.

Unlike leaders in neighboring Guatemala and the United States, he has not taken dramatic steps to contain the disease, saying that a broad shutdown of businesses and travel would hurt Mexico’s already struggling economy and particularly hurt the poor. …

But López Obrador isn’t the only one to face criticism. Many supporters of the president have voiced anger at travelers who had brought the virus to the country and who did not take precautions to isolate themselves.

“The virus is imported by people with the economic capacity to travel,” wrote actor Tenoch Huerta on Twitter. “Those who ask that everything be closed and all economic activity stop, hurting the people who live day-to-day, why didn’t they voluntarily isolate for three weeks so as not to spread it? Or should only the poor be responsible?”

It’s a common sentiment in Mexico: The poor wind up paying for the sins of the rich. …

 
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  1. It is unusual that leftist blaming elites is true. In countries where only the rich travel afar, the rich will bring pandemics.
    What is the solution? Travel bans? Free travel for the poor so they also can bring diseases home?
    Of course, elsewhere it is the poor unvetted “refugees” that bring scabies, multi-resistant tuberculosis and more to the US and Germany.
    Blaming “minorities” or speaking negatively about underprivileged repressed minorities is not allowed – to avoid prejudices, as per #PCGagOrder, expressed in media “ethics” codes, social media community standards. Details in our site
    Interestingly, speaking negatively about deplorable whites is allowed, and blaming elites is fairly commonplace and not prohibited.

  2. George says:

    “Mexican grocery chain Soriana stopped using the elderly volunteers”
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-mexico-elderly-idUSKBN2171IC

    ‘Volunteer’ grocery baggers? That’s funny, Reuters calls them volunteers. Maybe they should leave the tip jar out while the ‘volunteers’ are sheltering in place. The ‘volunteers’ might get paid more.

    The article refers to walmart baggers as workers, which implies they get a salary not tips. I also suspect the markets have been looking to get rid of the baggers for decades.

    Looks like the hysteria hit Mexico.

    • Replies: @UK
    , @Lugash
    , @Negrolphin Pool
  3. Anonymous[998] • Disclaimer says:

    Mexicans moaning about ‘people travelling’.

    Oh! The irony!

    • Agree: HammerJack
  4. How do you guys deal with the fact that EVERYONE blames white males for this epidemic?

    Just look at Asian twitter.

    All POC view whites as harmful and selfish. Can they all be wrong?

  5. Is the generally light-skinned elite in Mexico becoming a smaller portion of the population?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  6. Svevlad says:

    heh, now they’re confused. Can’t bite the hand that feeds them, like the true false leftists they are

  7. Charon says:

    Yep, and Mexico has just discovered that borders aren’t so bad after all. Not when they’re protecting one’s own country.

    Borders are only bad when they’re protecting a neighboring country. And this differs from outright warfare how?

    We even have a traditional fifth column: a tiny ruling class which aggressively promotes the converse notion that our own borders are bad.

    So now you can enjoy the pleasures of the Wuhan animal markets right in your own home. What’s not to like?

    • Replies: @anonymous-number-n
  8. SF says:

    This could be a life or death matter, since age is one of the main triage factors. As a currently healthy, insured 75 year old paying taxes in the five figure range, would I get treatment or would I be bumped for a 40 year old homeless junkie?

    • Replies: @epebble
  9. moshe says:

    I have a horrible conspiracy theory.

    The smart folks at SSC hypothesized a month ago that there was money to be made in shepherding the clued-in wealthy through getting and recovering from the Coronavirus before there was a run on the system.

    Look it up. There were businessplan suggestions and everything.

    Get Coronavirus Now and the bestest freshest care and then you can chill forever after!

    Remember how mommy’s conspired to make sure their kid DID GET the chickenpox, better sooner than later, even though it was potentially dangerous?

    Same thing here.

    The folks with better housing are comfortable calling upon everyone to isolate. It’s better to stave off the coronavirus until either Christ or Salk arrive but if one MUST have it, best to have it before all of the dirty hoi polloi without expensive insurance get it.

    The poor face dangers a tad more serious than a potentially strong flu. What makes life worth living for them though is….living life.

    Which is exactly what the rich now demand they surrender For The Greater Good.

    Fascism comes to a country through 3 demographics:

    THE rich and connected – for whom the beaurocrats and dictators toil.

    THE jingoistic haters who hide their own shortcomings in the power of Their Leader, and their rich, who are after all their national ornaments. Or “national treasures”, as one’s sycophancy prefers.

    and

    We The People who accept it is okay that all podiums and stepstools have been nationalized in the war effort of pumping fear, stress, terror, and worried uncertainty straight into the hearts of each and every citizen at a minimum dosage of 500/ml at least twice a day.

    FUCK THAT.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$

    I have no interest in leadership, publicity or the sort of responsibility that brings along an infection of carping critics and tweeting jezebels. Worse, I have no ability to actually utilize that leadership effectively on account of the aforementioned naysayers which, to date, is Every sayer.

    I will only man the ship of my own soul and leave the world to deal with its own latest class-warfare nonsense and its various fallouts.

    May they inconvenience me as little as possible.

    Freeeom rings in my heart. And, whether I die of this virus or that one I hope to enjoy my life till the end. And to be able to claim my mind and my heart, my own. And not the property of whichever gang of thieves and liars controlls the news media, whether today or tomorrow.

    Try Freedom.

    It’s easy and fun!

    • Replies: @HA
  10. DJT told us he’d get the Mexicans to build the wall AND pay for it. He might just be right after all.

    • LOL: ben tillman
  11. Anon[243] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    The Washington Times says the White House is preparing a nationwide shelter in place advisory, delaying it until the National Guard can be put in place to prevent riots and looting. The Times used to have good sources and reporters in its Moonie days, but I have no idea how reliable it is these days. But Russia Today has a photo of a guard unit in Hummers and camo in a Maryland black community to “deliver Covid-19 supplies.” Yeah, RT ranges from making things up to a sort of Daily Mail role of reporting the actual news that the New York Times won’t.

    When you think about it, the shelter in place orders that have presented no real problems in country after country and city after city might hit some rough terrain if implemented in the sub-85 IQ regions of our great land. If I had a store that sold large screen televisions, I’d be moving them to an undisclosed warehouse.

  12. Jalisco is in Nayarit, the area that figures prominently in Sam Quinones’s Dreamland as a center for the Mexican black tar heroin trade – wonder where all those skiers made their money? Ironic if they ended up bringing something killer back there…

  13. Odin says:

    For example, the AIDS epidemic was largely spread by needle junkies and addicts devoted to anonymous sodomy, but practically nobody knows that anymore due to massive retconning.[emphasis added]

    Even at the time, there was an impressive campaign to conceal this.

    • Agree: Hibernian
  14. UK says:
    @George

    They are volunteers and they do only get tips.

  15. What are the chances that the spread of covid-19 through Central America will be used as yet another reason to allow caravans of invaders to move northward so they may obtain their god given right to free US healthcare (and later, driver licenses)?

    • Agree: Bubba
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    , @Sam Haysom
    , @J.Ross
  16. moshe says:

    One thing that I feel I should add is that while I’m open to conspiracy theories, I generally don’t feel too badly about the conspirators once I’ve managed to sniff out those traps of theirs that keep in capturing most of my fellow citizenry.

    Hitherto for example, over the past half century (writ small) or 5,000 years (writ larger), eespite what people or groups may be hypocritically doing or saying for their own benefit, the results happen to be that I am using a smartphone and drinking Coca-Cola.

    And the fact that one might laugh at that and take it is a joke indicates how far one’s mind is from the minds of 99.99% of the human beings who had the misfortune to die before cheap cola and miraclephones gained ubiquity.

    The same goes for people worried about the environment or the government (some, to the extent that they vote!). It’s good for me that the conspirators got to them. it’s less good for them of course.

    And if this latest kerfuffle of lies and accusations and panics brings me Yangbux?

    Hey, way to go Skiing-Mexo-Zio-NBA puppetmasters!

    Once established as an independent neutral, I have nothing but the love and freindship of a modest colleague and immmodest benefactor.

    I think you guys are doing a great job, keep it up!

    [Anyone who thinks that my occasional head nudges in the direction of the lies and manipulations means that I oppose the conspirators fish&tackle, most certainly isn’t one of them. To keep their own sanity and to help an unhappy friend or individual strangers, the Movers&Quakers themselves speak no less caustically about the silliness of their noble but necessary lies. They are, after all, the best of us.]

  17. The five states with the most cases — New York (the leader by far), California, Washington State, Illinois and New Jersey — all voted for Hillary by more than 12 points. Already you can see Trumpists expressing opposition to this extreme shutdown reaction. It’s like Global Warming on fast forward: “You liberals are a bunch of Nervous Nellies. Anyway, not everything is under man’s control. Just have faith in God, and trust that everything will work out all right.”

    • Replies: @Pericles
  18. That the elites are a part of the spread of COVID-19 globally is a given. But as I’ve stated, this is an all-class thing. The Chinese have one of the largest ex-pat/diaspora populations on the planet. Particularly in the US and the greater West at large. When the Chinese govt failed to identify and contain this in early-mid January, the disease had already gone into community spread. Lots of ex-pats were back in the homeland for the Lunar New Year holiday, and even the lower classes could move province to province via cheap mass transit and spread the disease across all the Chinese provinces. Then the ex-pats went back to their diaspora locations and started community spread there. Coupled with non-Chinese who were visiting for tourism then going back home, there were just too many vectors getting the thing and spreading it before the Chinese realized they had to lock it down. The Chinese state media was saying as late as the third week of January that the possibility of person-to-person transmission was low. As you state we have zero race/ethnicity data yet to confirm, but I’d bet that when we do, we will see this pattern.

    Yes, European business class was in China/Hubei at the same time then went back home and went on ski vacations in late Jan/early Feb and helped spread transmission into all of Europe from there as well.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
  19. Also, I know Dr. Dan has been emphasizing the heat/humidity mitigation factor, but this thing appears to be going global. From Worldometer.info:

    Malaysia – 1183 confirmed 153 new cases 4 deaths
    Brazil – 986 confirmed 16 new cases 12 deaths
    Pakistan – 666 confirmed 165 new cases 3 deaths
    Indonesia – 450 confirmed 81 new cases 38 deaths
    Singapore – 432 confirmed 47 new cases 2 deaths
    Thailand – 411 confirmed 89 new cases 1 death
    Phillipines – 307 confirmed 77 new cases 19 deaths
    India – 283 confirmed 34 new cases 5 deaths

    These numbers track where the US and Europe was about 10 days ago; fortunately they have had some degree of warning observing how this pandemic has evolved, so hopefully they can track and contain, but my confidence lowers every day on this. Plus, they have less robust heath infrastructures and uncertain political leadership to handle the outbreak.

    Thailand, for example, seems to be taking a “lie back and think of England” approach:
    https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/coronavirus-kickboxing-match-in-bangkok-leads-to-spike-in-infections-1.1584762061216

    COVID-19 will go global. It will be interesting to see how much it penetrates Africa, where outside of South Africa (240 confirmed, 38 new cases, 0 deaths), outbreak numbers are low.

  20. Steve opines:

    My guess is that decisions were made long ago to downplay race and nationality in collecting and publicizing epidemic numbers to avoid stereotyping the marginalized.

    My guess is that there was no decision making about it. My guess is that the government bureaucracies are so damn incompetent, sclerotic, and staffed with disengaged careerist pencil-pushers that they literally could not come up with a plan for collecting this data unless there was a checkbox for it on one of their preexisting forms, and that they did not ever even think of collecting it anyway.

    If they were ever called out on why they did not collect it, they would say that they were refusing to stereotype the marginalized because they know that this excuse is unchallengeable in the Current Year. Their minds naturally tend towards feigning displays of principle when really they are just lazy, stupid, and ignorant.

    And it isn’t just government workers. Most people everywhere are like this today. Even the ones who do not naturally conform like a jelly to the system are beaten down by it until they do. Mandatory fecklessness is the modern way.

    • Agree: Faraday's Bobcat
  21. My guess is that decisions were made long ago to downplay race and nationality…

    From The Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual (1984)

    race Identification by race is pertinent:

    —In biographical and announcement stories, particularly when they involve a feat or appointment that has not been routinely associated with members of a particular race.

    —When it provides the reader with a substantial insight into conflicting emotions known or likely to be involved in a demonstration or similar event.

    —When describing a person sought in a manhunt. [!]

    In some stories that involve a conflict, it is equally important to specify that an issue cuts across racial lines. If, for example, a demonstration by supporters of busing to achieve racial balance in schools includes a substantial number of whites, that fact should be noted. [There were pro-busing demonstrations? Must’ve been staged. “Astroturf”.]

    Do not use racially derogatory terms unless they are part of a quotation that is essential to the story.

    What does the UPI stylebook of 20 years ago say?

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @ThreeCranes
  22. @Captain Tripps

    Thailand, for example, seems to be taking a “lie back and think of England” approach

    They may view the infecting of Gary Glitter types as a feature of the bug.

  23. Ano says:

    Sorry, where’s the paragraph where the reporter scolds America/Trump for not opening up the border wide now immediately so all the poor people in Mexico who live ‘day-to-day’ can flee from their infected elites and find sanctuary with our elites in this country where the poor neither never ever wind up paying for the sins of the rich, nor live day-to-day.

    Did I miss it?

    Personally, as one of the wealthy well-educated progressive elite myself, I’ll be greeting my undocumented Mexican servants with hugs and kisses upon my return from my skiing holiday in Ischgl.

    • LOL: ben tillman
  24. Anon[992] • Disclaimer says:

    For some reason, I don’t have a reply to comment button.

    Mexico’s leftist president is indeed fomenting class division, due imo to a personality trait. He is dim beyond words and narcissistically stubborn. He simply cannot admit he was wrong on his first take, unlike Trump who at some (one hopes responsible) point did an about-face and declared a tremendously good war on coronavirus and dispenses hope through chloroquine.

    Lopez Obrador first denied there was a problem, and is now saying it’s a disease of the rich. Hopefully it’ll also get the rich drug traffickers. The left needs conflict to thrive, and the man who spent 18 years campaigning for president simply cannot switch to governing mode. His own cabinet will use hand sanitizer in the same moment he theatrically refuses too. They will admit, en petit comité, he “doesn’t listen”.

    Civil society has hugely anticipated him. Universities notably started shutting their doors, then schools. Through social media and whatsapp, people have started self isolating since Friday March 14. Young people will be stupid, of course. Slowly, people are trying to help each other. Factory owners are giving talks, hand sanitizer. Domestic help are given a month off, salary paid. Office work has been reduced, and rotating work schedules put in place. There’s an emphasis on helping people get off public transportation. There’s huge emphasis on being careful “because of grandparents”. Family first, as always. Perhaps late and superficially, but richer people are calling on self-isolation because “if it’s hard on us, imagine those who cannot afford medicines”. It’s radiating out of big cities to the country, down from the more educated to the less so. How efficiently.. difficult to say.

    The government is now in non-essential functions shutdown. In the last poll, due to a series of blunders (including shortage of basic drugs in the public healthcare system), he’d lost 20 approval points. This will cost him more.

    We Mexicans have been able come together in times of crisis, notably in the 1985 and 2017 earthquakes in Mexico City, and the Gilberto Hurricane. We’ll see what leftist rhetoric has or has not done to our social cohesion.

    • Thanks: TomSchmidt
  25. @Reg Cæsar

    Reg, you’re the best! I, for one, thoroughly enjoy you as one of iSteve’s core commenters…. 😀

  26. From my medical connections:

    As of two days ago there were 27 officially confirmed cases of Toyota Corolla in Costa Rica.
    Two are foreign tourists and 25 originated from a Costa Rican medical doctor who had returned from a visit to Panama and promptly went back to work in his clinic infecting 24 co-workers and patients.

  27. Anon7 says:

    OT: Class warfare corona-style is not limited to Mexico.

    In Detroit, one big story about the coronavirus is how unfair it is. Michigan has laws (LAWS, mind you) about how all students (and especially poor black students) have a right to equal education. (Not to mention free breakfast and free lunch, which continues on a take-out basis.)

    But, when students are at home and they don’t have fancy laptops and high-speed internet, it’s not equal anymore.

    OTOH, there is also controversy about how educators don’t think that at-home work counts as actual school. They don’t know if students will be promoted to the next grade because of the requirement that they receive 180 days of school in a school year.

    (Prediction: all students will be promoted to the next grade in September! because that’s equality!)

    • Replies: @rexl
    , @Pericles
    , @TomSchmidt
  28. It seems likely that elite superspreaders would come into contact with a service industry superspreader that the former would pass cash to.

    I dont think this really helps the perception of the elite superspreaders.

    Also, the primary obvious vector of transmission last week around the country will be gay men in large party gatherings with their out and proud community.

    There were coed partying but not as much as you are being led to believe. Last weekend in Austin TX our local gay bar district was jumping while bar areas catering to regular markets of couples, millenials etc were more quiet.

    Unfortunately last week dine in restaurants were doing well because Austin’s feckless Mayor Adler told people to go out and eat.

  29. Lugash says:
    @George

    ‘Volunteer’ grocery baggers? That’s funny, Reuters calls them volunteers. Maybe they should leave the tip jar out while the ‘volunteers’ are sheltering in place. The ‘volunteers’ might get paid more.

    They’re paid in tips. When you live in a country like Mexico and you’re old and have no assets, this is what you do to survive.

    The article refers to walmart baggers as workers, which implies they get a salary not tips. I also suspect the markets have been looking to get rid of the baggers for decades.

    Eliminating checkout staff has been a (the?) top priority for grocery stores for a long time. My grocery store has slowly been eliminating manned checkout stations for the past couple of years. I haven’t been in since the crisis started, but I wonder how well the self-checkouts are working in the pandemic. Less virus exposure, but if you run into a problem it probably messes up the flow.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Mr. Anon
  30. UK says:
    @Captain Tripps

    It will be interesting to see how much it penetrates Africa

    There’s lots of Chinese all over Africa. It is therefore very likely that this disease is already widespread in much of that continent. People forget that we are discussing incredibly disorganised countries where the vast majority are not really literate and even basic social knowledge of the theory of disease is lacking. They do not have the ability to test for this stuff properly and they have much bigger worries anyway. I doubt the Coronavirus, even if as bad as some of the worst estimates, would make any noticeable difference in much of the continent’s life expectancies.

    It might even work out ok for them by keeping the Chinese from completing their colonisation efforts

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  31. Dash says:
    @Captain Tripps

    As Anatoly Karlin pointed out on his blog, less than 3% of sub-Saharan Africa is above 65 years in age. So Coronavirus is likely to be a blip on the sub-Saharan horizon.

  32. Anon[992] • Disclaimer says:

    Related to grocery packers, the women (not just those despicable ladies who lunch, but any woman who shops for her family in the bigger supermarkets) have started a social media campaign to add a bar of soap and a kilo of food (beans, lentils, rice) to give to the elderly grocery packers. It seems to be catching on.
    And I just found out some are helping elderly women who can sew but not much else to make/sell cotton face masks. $25 pesos each. That made me laugh, such complicated logistics, BUT they are very smart looking. A family in Chihuahua who overlooks a fruit-picker shelter is handing out vitamins and emphasizing hand washing. If each one of us took care of just a few others, this world would be much more humane. Death and marriage.. descend from heaven.

  33. Publius says:

    I get surprised how many people from South/Central America I see when I’m at a major US ski resort. Just this year I ran into some guys from Mexico City in Montana wanting to know if the resort had any areas like the back bowls at Vail. These countries may be pretty poor on average, but they have an upper class that gets around.

  34. George says:

    US media furious for Mex President not taking Coronavirus seriously.

    Mexico’s López Obrador ripped for touching people, holding rallies

    AMLO, as he is called, has been called “irresponsible” and a “source of contagion” as he defied guidelines on social distancing

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/mexico-s-l-pez-obrador-ripped-touching-people-holding-rallies-n1161911

    Conspiracy theory: AMLO is trying to ride his country of the old fat unhealthy …

    AMLO ¡Hale! ¡Hale! ¡Hale!

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  35. Don’t you worry, the reddit hive mind has already begun to REEE about, “muh Sub-Saharan Africans,” and, “muh Mali,” because rich, white countries should be bending over backwards to save them.

  36. Sean says:

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

    1918 Flu Pandemic That Killed 50 Million Originated in China…

    Historian Mark Humphries .. says that newly unearthed records confirm that one of the side stories of the war—the mobilization of 96,000 Chinese laborers to work behind the British and French lines on World War I’s Western Front—may have been the source of the pandemic. … China suffered a lower mortality rate from the Spanish flu than other nations did, suggesting some immunity … because of earlier exposure to the virus. [A] respiratory illness that struck northern China in November 1917 was identified a year later by Chinese health officials as identical to the Spanish flu.

    [M]ore than 3,000 of the 25,000 Chinese Labor Corps workers who were transported across Canada en route to Europe starting in 1917 ended up in medical quarantine, many with flu-like symptoms.

    So the initial outbreak in China, taken to the Western front with unsanitary conditions of trench warfare and crowded trains troopships barack, then it becomes much worse for the second wave. Which the Chinese are immune to.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @Mr McKenna
  37. On a bright note the richest Mexican in history owns a big chunk of the NYT. I wonder how he got that rich.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  38. Anon[272] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Elon Musk Can’t Solve This

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/car-manufacturers-alone-cant-solve-the-ventilator-crisis.html

    “It’s ridiculous,” said Robert Chatburn, an associate professor of medicine at Case Western Reserve University who has authored a number of books on respiratory care and mechanical ventilation. “It’s laudable that car manufacturers would want to help. But there’s only a handful of people in the world who know how to design a ventilator, much less manufacture one safely at scale.” Even if carmakers could magically figure out a way to churn out ventilators, Chatburn said the bigger issue would be training people to use the machines.

    Where have I heard that before?

    https://daringfireball.net/2006/11/colligan_head_stuck

    Responding to questions from New York Times correspondent John Markoff at a Churchill Club breakfast gathering Thursday morning, Colligan laughed off the idea that any company — including the wildly popular Apple Computer — could easily win customers in the finicky smart-phone sector.

    “We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.”

    Can Tesla make a ventilator that can pass FDA paperwork and tests in time to help with coronavirus? Maybe not. But that’s not the question.

    The question is, Can Tesla make and mass produce a ventilator that they can warehouse and when the coronavirus apocalypse arrives, wagons are picking up the dead in the streets, and the FDA is taken out of the loop and everything is fast-tracked and thrown into service as when you’re losing a warm, then Tesla’s device is shipped out and saves a lot of lives? I think the answer is yes.

    I suspect that a lot of the complexity of ventilators involves the 10 or 20 percent cases. For the most common 80 percent of cases a simpler machine might suffice. If the patient advances to a condition where he needs the deluxe machine, swap it in. If you just make an 80 percent ventillator in large numbers, the fancy-pants ones can be freed up for difficult cases.

    Feature creep in ventilators is probably like feature creep in rice cookers. They used to have one button and one pot and lid to wash. Now they have many parts that you have to clean, like steam condensers, and you can hit a button to make esoteric kinds of rice taste 1 percent better or do risotto or jambalaya in the rice cooker.

    As for staff, put up a training program on Khan Academy. There are plenty of smart people out of work now. In fact, the Elontilator will probably have a central dashboard where a trained medical staff can follow the progress of 100 patients while driving in a Tesla. The risk is that your Khan Academy guys will kill 2 in ten patients, where only 1 in ten would have died with a med school-grade expert, in a case where there is no school-grade expert available, and 5 in ten would die with nobody.

    One positive result of coronavirus might end up being that a lot of $500 toilet seat bullshit might be surfaced and medical costs might go down after a more reasonable cost/risk -benefit analysis.

    • Agree: epebble
  39. What an absolutely stupid article. It might come as a shock but most Latin Americans think we are a bunch of assholes. With all the tropical diseases there who really believes any of them give a shit about the Corona hoax or any “class” war erupting ??

  40. @Sincerity.net

    We’ll know we have a real emergency when the media drops the PC rules.

  41. Kronos says:
    @Sincerity.net

    It would be cool to break down which diseases were spread more by elites vs. commoners. Syphilis became global soon after the discovery of the New World. Interesting fact, Native Americans have a higher resistance to Syphilis than any other race. (The disease originated in America.) In many ways it mirrors Blacks resistance to Malaria.

  42. Anon[750] • Disclaimer says:

    Since people inherit 2 genes for blood type, and since blood types may be a factor in Covid-19 infection rates, I wonder about people who have genes sets that are AA vs AO. It’s rather odd that humans developed different blood types in the first place, unless there was some Darwinian advantage in having another blood type that resisted disease. The original human blood type was OO. Blood type A popped up at one point, likely in Asia, and it might have conferred an advantage against animal-borne viruses in Asia once humans migrated there.

    An AO set of genes may work like sickle-cell anemia. 1 sickling gene is protective against malaria, but 2 are a problem for the person who carries them. An AO blood type may have conferred survival advantages against diseases both A and O can protect you against, but an AA blood type gives you zero protection against diseases than an O gene can give you, so you suffer more from severe coronavirus infections, for example.

    The idea needs more scientific research. I’m not sure it would get funding, since you can’t change your blood type, and the medical establishment might not fund research for something they can’t fix.

  43. Anonymous[390] • Disclaimer says:

    COVID-19 will go global. It will be interesting to see how much it penetrates Africa, where outside of South Africa (240 confirmed, 38 new cases, 0 deaths), outbreak numbers are low.

    The internet has to some extent sussed out the relationship between malaria and this virus. Tropical areas of the world will not get slammed with acute cases. Mild cases yes. The virus stalls when it encounters malaria resistant populations.

    Still it’s an issue because the media can create hysteria over a large number of cases even without many deaths.

    • Agree: Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @Muggles
  44. Why are children and young people largely immune to kungflu? Is there a childhood vaccine still running strong in them that has worn off by late middle age, thus leaving boomers more at risk? There seems insufficient curiosity about this strange phenom. Children are usually MORE vulnerable to new strains of disease because they lack the immuno database of adults. I know flus hit me hardest as a child and could incapacitate me for a solid week, but that’s never happened since my early teens.

    Maybe we already have a vaccine for kungflu.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  45. Anon[750] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s a real puzzle about Covid-19. When you get chicken pox or measles, you just plain get them and have an unpleasant illness. But some people who have caught Covid-19–maybe more than half–don’t even get sick at all. Something is acting as a protective factor, and we haven’t discovered what it is. It’s an important thing to find out.

    We need more data on infected but non-symptomatic people.

  46. Lot says:

    RIP

    When’s the last time a song this good has been released anywhere in the world? I certainly can’t think of one the past 5 years.

    We also don’t have any fashions as sexy as what the cutie in the back is wearing. She’s Mary Arnold Miller, then just Mary Arnold. She married Roger Miller the country music star and is now 72, widowed, and living in Nashville.

    Boomers did some things right!

  47. Neoconned says:

    As Steve has noted before, Mexicans are quite docile….hence their popularity w American elites using them as grunt labor.

    There will be a lotta bitching….and then nothing…

  48. @Lot

    The Gambler. Yes, RIP.

    I’m old enough to remember when this came out; my mom would spin it after getting home from work…

  49. bomag says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    There were pro-busing demonstrations?

    LOL

  50. Oh-so-fashionably left Mother Jones has the perfect solution:

    Send the poor Mexicans to the US to fix our “labor shortage”!

    You can’t make this stuff up.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/03/mexico-farms-h2a-visas-produce-coronavirus-us/

  51. Anon[368] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lugash

    I wonder how well the self-checkouts are working in the pandemic. Less virus exposure

    Dumbest comment of the day, and it’s not even mid-day yet. Please put some more thought into your posts.

  52. @Sean

    It gets worse.

    Why were the Chinese in Europe?

    Germany had taken some Chinese territory in the Shanghai area — the Qingdao peninsula.

    Wilson promised China that Qingdao would be returned if they sided with the allies in WW I.

    Trouble is, the French had already promised Qingdao to the Japanese. In fact, during WW I, the Japanese forcibly took Qingdao from the Germans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Tsingtao

    Came treaty time, Wilson was a bit out of it, so Qingdao went to Japan.

    It gets even worse.

    Many of the Chinese went to France, and were indoctrinated in Marxist thought by French Marxists.

    That was the start of the Chinese Communist Party.

  53. Farenheit says:

    Perhaps the bigger faux pas is establishing in the minds of many that Mexicans can go to the US, then go back….that crazy ass idea needs to put in quarantine post haste.

  54. Anon[368] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    People who attend muay thai events, an ancient Thai tradition, are “Gary Glitter types”? Just way off. You could argue that they are uneducated commoners, but this is just trying to be oh so cleverly twee as usual, “Cages Rear.”

    Self-checkout is obviously worse for spreading viruses. Touch screens are a huge communicability vector. Not sure why my correction of Lugash got deleted.

    • Replies: @Lugash
  55. @Captain Tripps

    Many of the countries reporting few or even no cases are:

    1. Not testing very much
    2. Lying about it
    3. Both.

    For example, everyone knows North Korea has Coronavirus, They claim 0 cases.

  56. @Reg Cæsar

    “race Identification by race is pertinent:

    —In biographical and announcement stories, particularly when they involve a feat or appointment that has not been routinely associated with members of a particular race.”

    So that’s why they always give the race of white people when they murder people of color.

    • LOL: Mr McKenna
  57. Barnard says:
    @Captain Tripps

    Lack of testing would be a plausible reason for low number in Africa. I doubt the average African seeks out medical care for flu like symptoms. The Southeast Asian countries have high population density which could potentially cause a spread even if the virus doesn’t live as long in high heat and humidity.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  58. BenKenobi says:

    Imagine how much stigma one would face after taking a dump in someone’s backyard!

    Forgive the r*ddit link.

    Chinese woman allegedly takes poop in someone’s back yard and is then confronted by property owner (North Vancouver, Canada) from facepalm

    • Replies: @Tlotsi
  59. Anonymous[390] • Disclaimer says:

    The media is really ramping the Case Number Hysteria now but the lethal cases remain low. It’s a bizarre situation. Constant relentless manipulation of the testing math.

    Looking at the numbers in Italy —- and the fact that 99% of terminal cases are patients with severe conditions apart from WuFlu —- it doesn’t look like an epic crisis.

    It’s the unusually long acute case recovery time that is causing a chain reaction of events that threaten the entire system. OK. It’s a logistical nightmare for certain.

    Short term we need to find out if Didier Raoult’s azithromycin element changes the game and frees up bed space.

    Short term we need an avalanche of hydroxychloroquine.

    I don’t get the shortage of respirators. Incredible that we can’t immediately spin up manufacturing on these one way or another. How many different kinds of mass produced air compressors does the military have on hand at all times? They can’t rig up workable units? The required component parts are unavailable apparently? …. Fucking 3d printing industry can’t fill the gaps?

    WTF. Frustrating situation right now but maybe we are going to see real progress this coming week on all fronts…

  60. Neoconned says:
    @Captain Tripps

    Your name….i need to read the Stand again….

    I’ve been thinking about it a lot in recent days….

    • Thanks: Captain Tripps
  61. @Sincerity.net

    I noticed that in Canada, only a select few victims of the Chinese Virus are getting time in the press.
    They are all white.

    But it is not many they actually reveal the identity of. I believe that this is to create a false image in the public that it’s mainly whites getting the virus. Anyways, white Canadians are dumb as fuck and are repeatedly parroting the narrative that racism is worse than the virus.

    I don’t know if it’s true or not. But I would like to see the demographics of the deaths.

  62. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Captain Tripps

    Decent vid on what makes bat viruses special. It also tends to undermine the theory of our current supercharged bat virus being sensitive to heat and moisture. Bat caves are nothing, if not centers of heat and moisture.

    Gods of the Copybook Headings Say:

    1. Lowbrow bushmeat and modern civilization don’t mix well, and…

    2. Some cultures are better than others.

  63. Mr. Anon says:
    @Lot

    I just saw that on Drudge. RIP. Rogers was a fine musician: The Gambler, Ruby, many others.

    That one you linked to – a great song, as you say – has to be one of the weirdest to have come out of the seventies: a funkadelic mind-bender with wocka-wocka guitar riffs performed by people who stepped right off the Grand Ol’ Opry stage.

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Anon 2
  64. Mr. Anon says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    For example, everyone knows North Korea has Coronavirus, They claim 0 cases.

    They just shoot anyone who has it.

  65. Speaking of war, what do we know about crime, these last couple of weeks?

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  66. Mr. Anon says:
    @Lugash

    Eliminating checkout staff has been a (the?) top priority for grocery stores for a long time. My grocery store has slowly been eliminating manned checkout stations for the past couple of years. I haven’t been in since the crisis started, but I wonder how well the self-checkouts are working in the pandemic. Less virus exposure, but if you run into a problem it probably messes up the flow.

    I hate self-serve checkout. First of all, they’re only good if you have a few items as they don’t have conveyor belts. The touch-screen card-readers are always greasy and spooged up – worse than the ones on the manned checkout lanes. And there’s always some employee who instantly pounces on you offering help. I feel like telling them to F-off.

    My local Home Depot had gone to mostly self checkout years ago. They had those bar-code reader consoles with glass panels, just like in the grocery stores, that you’d swipe your purchases over. It required virtually no touching. Then just last fall – just in time for cold-and-flu-season – they removed them and replaced them with scanning guns. So now you have to grab a greasy pistol-grip that every other sniffling, sneezing, snotty, guy-who-just-took-a-dump-and-didn’t-wash-his-hands customer has touched over the course of the day.

    Progress.

  67. @Lot

    Le Wik says that Billboard identifies these as the most played new songs of the 2010s.

    # Song Artist
    1 “Uptown Funk” Mark Ronson featuring Bruno Mars
    2 “Party Rock Anthem” LMFAO featuring Lauren Bennett and GoonRock
    3 “Shape of You” Ed Sheeran
    4 “Closer” The Chainsmokers featuring Halsey
    5 “Girls Like You” Maroon 5 featuring Cardi B
    6 “We Found Love” Rihanna featuring Calvin Harris
    7 “Old Town Road” Lil Nas X featuring Billy Ray Cyrus
    8 “Somebody That I Used to Know” Gotye featuring Kimbra
    9 “Despacito” Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee featuring Justin Bieber
    10 “Rolling in the Deep” Adele

    I could identify two of these, if I really had to. Those two are distinctly unmemorable and not at all listenable.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    , @Lot
  68. @(((Owen)))

    You sound like your dad did in 1964.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    , @Mr. Anon
  69. @Sam Haysom

    You sound like your dad did in 1964.

    My dad was cool in 1964. Taking the parents’ car without permission, dating pretty girls, enjoying good music.

  70. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    When’s the last time a song this good has been released anywhere in the world? I certainly can’t think of one the past 5 years.

    Obviously, you haven’t been keeping up.

    This new song kicks Kenny Rogers’ ass:

  71. Lot says:
    @(((Owen)))

    Depressing list. Haven’t heard a few, but I don’t need to sample something by “ Lil Nas X featuring Billy Ray Cyrus” to know it will be garbage.

    Comments:

    Bruno Mars, Ed Sheeran – inoffensive forgettable background music for CVS and Arby’s.

    “Party Rock Anthem” LMFAO – easily the best song on the list, and fun music video.

    Maroon 5 – they were a third tier indy band in the 00s, disappeared, and now make huge hits out of garbage pop songs. At best, Moves like Jagger is kinda catchy

    Somebody That I Used to Know – 2nd best song on the list. Sounds like a New Wave throwback, especially to 1981’s “Don’t You Want Me Baby”

    Despacito – not a bad song but its insane worldwide popularity is because of the lack of other “not bad” songs.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  72. With AMLO’s “mañana” policy towards the virus, looks like in a month’s time they’ll be a lot like Spain, which is now in absolute meltdown. For a lot of the same cultural reasons. Vox has a good story on Spain’s situation which includes this magnificent photo.

    Note the crumbling building. And this is in a country that progressives claim is the gold standard for single-payer healthcare.

    Quite possibly, AMLO has the belief that Mexico’s deplorable hygienic state may give it some sort of advantage, in that most people already have herd immunity. Maybe to dysentery, but that’s about it.

    • Replies: @216
    , @obwandiyag
  73. Mr. Anon says:
    @Sam Haysom

    You sound like your dad did in 1964.

    You sound like you do today. Which is a lot worse.

  74. Mr. Anon says:

    OT: So this is where all this is leading:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023

    DOJ seeks new emergency powers amid coronavirus pandemic

    One of the requests to Congress would allow the department to petition a judge to indefinitely detain someone during an emergency.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  75. A little OT:

    Florida governor DeSantis is first Repub to cuck and shutter his state’s economy, so let me be the first registered Democrat to announce: Too little too late, racist!

    Any presidential aspirations of DeSantis are now kaput – nobody likes a weak horse.

  76. Similarly, there seems to be some kind of embargo on data about race and ethnicity of people with the coronavirus. It’s easy to learn the sex and age of patients, but not race, whereas with most other topics (other than crime), race is widely trumpeted in the press. My guess is that decisions were made long ago to downplay race and nationality in collecting and publicizing epidemic numbers to avoid stereotyping the marginalized.

    But what happens when an epidemic is spread not by the marginalized but by the elite?

    I’m working an election in an eastern state, obviously on hold for the time being. Before we went remote, I ran into an acquaintance in the hyper-leftist world of Democrat operatives ( personnel make policy, indeed.) She seemed quite delighted that the first victims seemed predominantly well-off and white, in Westchester County for example. A Latin American explosion of cases would not make this Latina Sandernista very happy.

    Similarly, African Americans were sanguine about the early victim demo, and rumors spread that Africans were somehow less likely to get it. But then KD and the other NBA guys started getting it, so that was that. They are of course overrepresented among attackers of innocent Asians walking around ( ie the attacks are almost exclusively by blacks, as with the antisemitic and anti-trans attacks that happen in NY.)

    I’m not sure gays won’t be overrepresented among victims either, given the apparently irresistible appeal of their ‘lifestyle.’ I see that gossip queen Andy Cohen has it, and a gay elected in NY named Ritchie Torres. Almost Governor Gillum may have avoided it despite his extreme social proximity association with gay hooker meth head and old Cuban fruit money man in Miami hotel suite. Something to watch.

    The first time Wuhan virus tears through a housing project or a low income old folks’ home, you better believe we’ll be hearing that the rich whites don’t care about POCs. You can take that to the bank.

    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
  77. Sean says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Even though they had a general election after the coronavirus reached Iran and Iranians kiss so the leader would have been exposed an awful lot recently, the only prominent leaders to dies (and they have a lot of old Mullahs) was 78. I think the leadership in Iran are playing up the extent to which the political class are hit. They have released prisoners , have they been reading Ewald?

    It is still unclear how many excess deaths over previous years are being projected. The Imperial College predictions are not about this kind of excess death. The deaths in Italy are very high for this far through the year but would their have made it into 2021? No seems to be the implied answer.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654
    Because of a prolonged spell of extreme cold and a flu vaccine did not include including the predominant strain that year (they look at the top 4 flu strains in Oz which has flu season in our summer and put that in the jab) there were 15,000 deaths in winter 2017-18 over the previous period especially in the over 85s.

    Sir Patrick Vallance, the government’s scientific guy told MPs the estimate is 8000, this would presumably be people who die in a an epidemic this year only because of the coronavirus-19. Every year 600,000 people die in Britain, but 500,000 deaths by August was projected would overwhelm the health service.

    The more I think about it the more the real danger seems to be a super virulent resurgence, as with the 1918 epidemic

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-commemoration/three-waves.htm

    The pandemic peaked in the U.S. during the second wave, in the fall of 1918. This highly fatal second wave was responsible for most of the U.S. deaths attributed to the pandemic

    Let’s say the anti Coronavirus -19 lockdown is done so well that the outbreak dies out with very few people being exposed to it. If there is a second wave out of Chinese detention camps (or Italian old folks homes) there will be very little immunity of the kind that was on show in China in 1918 because they had been exposed to the mild 1917 version when it originated there. So the cost of acquiring herd immunity to Coronavirus-19 as it now exists is prohibitive, and herd immunity is pretty useless, but if Coronavirus-19 came back in a super virulent form, herd immunity might be very handy. As so often is the case, you have to bring some to get some.

    • Replies: @danand
    , @Anon
  78. anon[304] • Disclaimer says:

    Never mind AMLO and the 40 families that run Mexico, they had a big music festival last week with 70,000 tickets sold for the two-day event. Like South by Southwest only in Mexico City.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mexico-holds-big-music-festival-despite-coronavirus-concerns/ar-BB11cIY3?li=BBnbfcL

    Alan Miranda, who was making his first visit to Vive Latino and especially wanted to see The Warning, said he felt many people are overreacting to the potential danger of contagion at large gatherings.

    “Because I consider it is more a collective hysteria than any other thing. In Mexico we have a culture of a little bit more of hygiene that helps us to limit this kind of transmissions,” he said.

    lol. Mexican culture of hygiene… Ok, then, nothing to worry about there, nope!

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  79. @Paleo Liberal

    “For example, everyone knows North Korea has Coronavirus, They claim 0 cases.”

    I don’t know that. North Korea has a travel embargo. Since kungflu is not spread by the trade winds, it may very well have zero cases.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  80. Hubbub says:

    COVid-19 has made some things clear:

    1. As far as the government is concerned, money does, indeed, grow on trees

    2. People believe if they drive slower, they will slow the spread of the virus

    3. Drivers believe that you should practice “automotive distancing” as well as “social distancing” to curtail the spread of the disease

    Just some observations….

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  81. @Paleo Liberal

    For example, everyone knows North Korea has Coronavirus, They claim 0 cases.

    One gets the impression that North Korean officials are wary about giving the Supreme Leader bad news. Thank goodness that could never happen in the US where our leaders listen carefully to all sides before forming an opinion.

    The psychological defense mechanism of denial seems to come into play quite a lot in dictatorial world leaders like Kim and Trump. “It can’t be true (can it?)” quickly becomes “it is not true” which is then incorporated into policy as “the punishment for heresy shall be excommunication, death, or a worse fate, if available”.

    To be fair to Trump, it seems likely that the old boy was influenced by the pranksters on Fox News who, like the corona virus, prey on the elderly and the gullible, as he is known to watch that channel before his afternoon nap.

    Personally I do not watch any TV news and find that CNN (web site) is in its own way just as insufferable as Fox News, (who is most sanctimonious, Hannity or Cooper?) and the other three-letter networks are no better. (Remember our news networks led the charge to war with Saddam Hussein to take away his nasty germ warfare weapons, only we couldn’t find them even though Dick Cheney knew where they were!)

    News networks are just about getting eyeballs and selling advertising time to the highest bidder, so not a lot of demand for truth when sensational lies get better ratings.

    However, if you are aware of the fact that some news is fake, then it goes without saying that you should be skeptical about what you hear on TV, or at the very least trust, but verify. (In other words, don’t trust.)

    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. said St. Paul who knew a thing or two about wishful thinking.

    So, yeah, some of those people in North Korea who have the sniffles or a cough probably have the C-virus, but that is the least of their problems.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Reg Cæsar
  82. Mr. Anon says:
    @Mr. Anon

    I would add that in all these proclamations by governors and mayors shutting down businesses, public areas, even private gatherings, I’ve never heard any of them preface it with “pursuant to section whatever of the state code…..” Nobody is citing any law that authorizes any of this. Nobody is asking what law authorizes any of it.

    They are just doing it. And we are all just expected to comply.

    This crisis is establishing a dangerous precedent that is a lot worse than any disease.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  83. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @Greg Fiedler

    All POC view whites as harmful and selfish. Can they all be wrong?

    Yes. It’s called bigotry.

  84. Daniel H says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    What are the chances that the spread of covid-19 through Central America will be used as yet another reason to allow caravans of invaders to move northward so they may obtain their god given right to free US healthcare (and later, driver licenses)?

    In any case, nothing is deterring the immigration fanatics.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/coronavirus-crisis-increased-immigration-not-solution/?fbclid=IwAR3d2dJZ9lRrRn2mojzTsmtrYlvicze-2ezjK2EdKC2HlnVoIcsLX1bL-OE

  85. Let me suggest there is one chart you have to look at every day. Its the logarithmic chart of cumulative deaths for the U.S. When the latest slope >1, especially when the slope is increasing, deaths are still increasing exponentially and it is not possible to guess what the total may be. When the slope is <1, especially when it is decreasing, deaths have stopped increasing exponentially, and it is possible to make reasonable guesses where they will top out, at least for this wave and under roughly constant conditions.

    • Replies: @epebble
  86. Mr. Anon says:

    https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-inside-militarys-top-secret-plans-if-coronavirus-cripples-government-1492878

    Above-Top Secret contingency plans already exist for what the military is supposed to do if all the Constitutional successors are incapacitated. Standby orders were issued more than three weeks ago to ready these plans, not just to protect Washington but also to prepare for the possibility of some form of martial law.

    According to new documents and interviews with military experts, the various plans – codenamed Octagon, Freejack and Zodiac – are the underground laws to ensure government continuity. They are so secret that under these extraordinary plans, “devolution” could circumvent the normal Constitutional provisions for government succession, and military commanders could be placed in control around America.

    Well, nothing gives one confidence in the continuity of limited republican government like secret plans with names like “Octagon”, “Freejack”, and “Zodiac”. And what exactly is an “underground law”? Doesn’t that just mean “rule by military junta”?

    But, hey, if it saves just one octogenarian with congestive heart failure, it will have all been worth it.

  87. Paul says:

    You are supposed to use this code word — COVID-19 — so as not to stigmatize the Communist Party of China.

  88. anon[281] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    So, yeah, some of those people in North Korea who have the sniffles or a cough probably have the C-virus, but that is the least of their problems.

    It’s ok that you have TDS. Someday a cure will be found.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  89. @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    Remember the hype about AIDS was that “anyone” could get it? In truth, almost all of the victims were gays or intervenous drug users. Both behaviors were universally condemned in the 1950s. The few outlier victims got the publicity.

  90. @Barnard

    A victim might go the local friendly witch doctor, who would mumble some words and shake a rattle over him. Payment would be a chicken.

    It would take a big die off in Africa to be noticed.

  91. danand says:
    @Sean

    “They have released prisoners , have they been reading Ewald?”

    Sean, are you referring to the mass Silicon Valley prisoner releases? Perhaps they are freeing up cells………for those elite ski vacation super-spreaders?

  92. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Viruses that hit children less hard than adults also include measles, mumps, chicken pox, mono, and other herpes simplex strains. I think there’s a lot of things about viruses that are not properly understood, and I would guess that one of them is that the vast, vast majority of viral “infections” do not even cause disease at all. It may be that viral replication and production usually subserves some normal cellular function that we aren’t aware of, and that this process only becomes pathological when something else goes wrong.

    I know I’ll be ridiculed for saying this, but it think it’s worth keeping in mind.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  93. @Greg Fiedler

    All the girls think the prom queen is a total bitch too. Envy is the worlds most powerful drug.

    • LOL: Bubba
  94. Wattsupwiththat has a dialy coronavirus graph page that is frequently updated.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/daily-coronavirus-covid-19-data-graph-page/

  95. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Zero and I really wonder about your ability to analyze politics if you think the left is truly suicidal as opposed to cynical selfish and short sided.

    • Troll: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  96. Anonymous[311] • Disclaimer says:

    Many of the countries reporting few or even no cases are: 1. Not testing very much 2. Lying about it 3. Both.

    So what? The focus on mass testing is irrational.

    1/ Many test results are false positives (there’s a Chinese study linked on Coulters twitter last week that claimed 50% false positives)

    2/ 80-85% of cases are mild (testing positive is not a big deal for vast majority)

    3/ the virus does not infect the young unless otherwise immune compromised (children as mass carriers is idiotic fallacy)

    4/ the fatalities are all people with serious underlying conditions (including very advanced age, certain Asians more susceptible)

    5/ localized outbreak testing is reasonable along with elder care workers and a few other occupations

    6/ the vulnerable should be ring fenced quarantined hyper vigilant etc

    What really matters is the flow into the ICUs. Testing has little to do with that flow. We could’ve controlled the flow by quarantining the vulnerable.

    OBSESSING ABOUT TEST RESULTS AND MEDIA HYSTERIA HAS TRIGGERED AN INSANE MASS LOCKDOWN

  97. For example, the AIDS epidemic was largely spread by needle junkies and addicts devoted to anonymous sodomy, but practically nobody knows that anymore due to massive retconning.

    Of course, contrary to predictions at the time, AIDS did never spread significantly outside of these risk groups. On the other hand, many people with a positive AIDS test result don’t seem to have any issues. The problem is, that there are no AIDS symptoms you could diagnose – people suffer from a variety of other diseases. The only reason that these ills are attributed to AIDS is because a HIV test has a positive result.

    It is then claimed that they would have not fallen ill with these diseases when their immune system had not been weakened by HIV previously, but where is the proof? Is it not simpler to assume that their, ahem, unhealthy lifestyle choices were fully sufficient to account for the outcome? Occams razor certainly is on the side of AIDS sceptics like Duesberg, who say that the HIV virus is harmless and the AIDS epidemic is not and never was real.

  98. Anonymous[311] • Disclaimer says:

    Never mind AMLO and the 40 families that run Mexico, they had a big music festival last week with 70,000 tickets sold for the two-day event. Like South by Southwest only in Mexico City.

    So what? There’s no evidence that mass gatherings equates to mass infection of this virus.

    It’s media hysteria that causes people to assume mass infection will occur in say a stadium.

    What we have is certain authorities shutting down mass gatherings on an assumption that has never been proven.

    There’s actually plenty of evidence that mass gatherings do not cause mass infection. Even medium gatherings in shared airspace like plane cabins does not result in mass infection or if it does the infection literally goes unnoticed by the masses.

    In the end the only thing that matters is vulnerable people with underlying conditions and the resulting load on the ICUs. Mass gatherings of total strangers does not compute. It’s a fallacy. (With the understanding vulnerable people should not be in attendance in the first place)

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
  99. Anon[750] • Disclaimer says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    The decision was driven by demographics of the state. Florida has a ton of elderly retirees.

  100. Hibernian says:
    @RichardTaylor

    Their approach to race is to pretend that all Mexicans are mestizos. Presumably including Vicente Fox.

  101. @Dash

    I would add that the average disease burden among the SSA under-65 cohort is higher than most of the world. There are also many survivors in west/central SSA of the multiple Ebola outbreaks over the past decade; that is an unknown variable. I also understand that SSA has a significant degree of HIV burden, which factors in as well (compromised immune systems); how much is anyone’s guess. Ive read a study of US influenza mortality over the past 100 years that shows the elderly of all races have roughly the same susceptibility to dying of influenza. Since COVID-19 is similar to the flu, a reasonable extrapolation would suggest that all races are similarly vulnerable. We won’t know until this first wave subsides and we can examine the data.

  102. Anon[750] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    I’ve done some research on the 1918 pandemic. The mutant 2nd wave version attacked 2 different types of receptors, one more common in the upper part of the lungs, and another more common in the lower part of the lungs. This is why it was so dangerous.

    However, they found the people who had gotten sick in the first wave tended to be immune to the 2nd wave.

    They also found those who had had the Russian flu in the 1889 pandemic tended not to get the Spanish flu in the 1918 period, either.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    , @Sean
  103. Lugash says:
    @Anon

    Self-checkout is obviously worse for spreading viruses. Touch screens are a huge communicability vector. Not sure why my correction of Lugash got deleted.

    If you’re wiping down the touch screen and/or using hand sanitizer and/or using gloves it’s probably safer than standing face to face with a cashier. You are following these steps, aren’t you?

    You also don’t have the cashier or bagger touching your items when putting them in the bag.

  104. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    New Rochelle NY is less than half white (47.9%) anyways.

    Leftists really have an outdated perspective on demographics… there are not very many WHITE areas left anymore, outside the far rural towns.

    Same thing in Canada, the progressives seem to assume that their measures are only hurting the white upper middle class… but in reality the upper middle class is at least as non-white as it is white.

  105. Aylokaa says:

    The first person to die of the coronavirus in Rio de Janeiro was a maid whose employer became infected on an Italian skiing holiday, ignored quarantine orders while waiting for test results, infected her and then concealed the truth from her doctors or family. Big story in Brazil rn.

    https://noticias.uol.com.br/saude/ultimas-noticias/redacao/2020/03/19/primeira-vitima-do-rj-era-domestica-e-pegou-coronavirus-da-patroa.htm

  106. J.Ross says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    They were going in that direction for like a day (Markey from Massachussetts was pushing a huge expansion of permitted invaders) but the thing is now everyone gets that this would be bad. It’s one of the things even the apoliticals and low information people know so it’s neutralized until summer.
    See, Sam? See how I provided reasons and didn’t just call someone stupid or a fag? See?

    • Thanks: MikeatMikedotMike
  107. HA says:
    @moshe

    “Get Coronavirus Now and the bestest freshest care and then you can chill forever after!”

    Assuming you don’t get pneumonia and get put on a ventilator (assuming one is available) and aren’t left with scarring in the lungs. Assuming they won’t announce an effective cure or vaccine a month or two after you’re done with the disease (one way or the other), meaning that if you could have held off just a bit longer, you could have basically dodged it altogether. Assuming that the immunity isn’t merely partial and that it doesn’t last forever (the way that immunity to season flu is only partial and doesn’t last forever), so that you won’t just get it again at some point.

    In other words, a couple of key assumptions that you probably ought to consider, if you’re not a total idiot.

    Oh, and if any scarring of the lungs does happen, then the next time that China’s Island-of-Dr-Moreau wet markets (or the US manure lagoons that sicken downwind residents in the US) cook up a virus, you’ll be one of those unlucky individuals with “pre-existing conditions” like the vast majority of those who are dying from coronavirus, which means your death can be shrugged off as being unavoidable and something no one needs to care about.

    They had people like you during the AIDS crisis too. They called them “bugchasers”. I guess there’s a few of them still around. Not many, though. I wonder why that is?

    • Replies: @epebble
  108. J.Ross says:
    @Hubbub

    I want to believe in the latter two but over the past week I have seen some of the worst accidents in years, in conditions of perfect visibility, perfect traction, low speed limit, lit intersections, and so on: in one case an SUV was perfectly overturned onto its roof.
    Against stupidity, even Coronachan culls in vain.

  109. @Sam Haysom

    The only thing worse than a troll pretending to be a white American is an absolutist troll pretending to be a white American. Or am I being short sided?

  110. @Dash

    But many Africans have AIDS/HIV and therefore have ‘underlying health problems’.

    Of course, if all these people were dead, you could argue that this would be doing Africa a huge favour, as much as the BBC/CNN will mourn their tragic loss.

  111. @George

    Lots of people are failing to take it seriously. I’ve got otherwise intelligent people in my own life who are saying you don’t have to practice distancing unless you’re showing symptoms. They read it somewhere. Even worse: they actually did read it somewhere, because I’m also seeing doctors saying stupid things on various news sites. And everyone trusts doctors.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  112. @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    We’ll get the demographic breakdown, in about ten years, in medical journals where no one can see it.

  113. @International Jew

    Crime is probably cratering, but it may well increase dramatically before this is over.

    Has anyone else noticed how strangely negroes are acting during the corona pandemic? I’m seeing many of them walking around dazed, because of the strange phenomenon being that people are focused upon something more important than negroes–even in Current Year America.

    The notion that they and their endless caterwauling aren’t the absolute most important thing on God’s Green Earth is profoundly disorienting to most negroes. They’re expecting it to end soon so that all of society can return to its normal, obsessive focus on whatever ‘micro-aggression’ or ‘hate-crime hoax’ they can come up with next. Failing that, they want the stuff we’ve been buying.

    That’s what I wrote a week ago. You know negroes aren’t prepping, because they’re used to having everything done for them. If this storm abates, as I’m hoping it will (thanks to responsible behavior by a critical mass of citizens) we’ll all be able to return to something vaguely resembling normalcy. If it doesn’t, look out below.

    • Replies: @International Jew
  114. @Neoconned

    Read The Last Centurion by John Ringo also.

    • Thanks: Neoconned
  115. Similarly, there seems to be some kind of embargo on data about race and ethnicity of people with the coronavirus.

    In China, Korea and Taiwan the victims are mainly Chinese or Korean, because those countries are not “multicultural”. It’s odd that nobody’s noted racially/ethnically homogeneous countries have handled the Wuhan Flu most effectively.

    And while there may be an embargo on race/ethnicity when it comes to victims, there’s no end of wailing about how Blacks and Browns (BAMES) are hardest hit. Here’s The Guardian giving a loudspeaker to Professor Kalwant Bhopal (of course) to express her Social Injustice Fears.

  116. @Lot

    I find myself listening to the classical station at work. More diversity of songs, and fewer commercials than the classic rock, country, and pop stations.

  117. Agree. And in Italy there have been 800 deaths in the last 24 hours. The slope is increasing. I see no reason why the same will not occur here. The guys who keep pooh-poohing this thing as just clearing out dead underbrush must be wearing blinders. Or they just don’t give a dammm,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8138183/Further-793-people-die-coronavirus-Italy-past-24-hours.html

  118. @Greg Fiedler

    All POC view whites as harmful and selfish. Can they all be wrong?

    Yes.

    The question is whether all POC are parasites or not. You are not in question. You have categorized yourself already.

    — Charles Erwin Wilson

  119. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:

  120. epebble says:
    @SF

    The rule I think is whoever can be treated quicker and sent out of ICU. If they expect you to take 14 days to get out and the other guy only 5 days, he will get preference. In oversubscribed systems, the main criterion becomes throughput. You don’t want to hold scarce resources for too long for a customer. But, they will never pull a tube out of you to put it into another guy. The triage occurs when both of you are presented to intake and a bed is not readily available.

    Informally speaking, this becomes choosing a relatively healthier person over a sicker person. I don’t think age comes into picture directly; however, if the 75 year old is sicker than 40 year old, as is the usual case, then yes, age is a proxy for health. But if you don’t have diabetes or blood pressure and 75 and the other guy has a lot of illnesses at 40, you are the preferred choice to improve the throughput.

    It will never be based on your taxes paid or homelessness status. They simply don’t have access to that information.

  121. danand says:
    @Lot

    “Boomers did some things right!”

    Yes they, Boomers, did do some, perhaps even most things right. But the prior generation, the “Silents”, get the “credit” for Kenny Rogers (rest in peace) contributions. He may have yearned to be a Boomer, what with all that later in life plastic surgery (better have had that work done by the true experts in Korea), but really you can’t turn back time. You gotta know when to fold ’em.

  122. @Charon

    We even have a traditional fifth column: a tiny ruling class which aggressively promotes the converse notion that our own borders are bad.

    True. — Charles Erwin Wilson

  123. epebble says:
    @HA

    Assuming that the immunity isn’t merely partial and that it doesn’t last forever (the way that immunity to season flu is only partial and doesn’t last forever), so that you won’t just get it again at some point.

    I have not seen any report that says a person who was infected will get any immunity. Till that finding is made, it is best to assume this is like common cold – the fact that you got it this month doesn’t mean you won’t get it next.

    • Replies: @HA
  124. epebble says:
    @Henry Canaday

    I am trying to understand Italy statistics like this and all I can see is all derivatives seem to be positive as far as I can see. Almost like this is perfect exp(x) function. This implies, the process is like an explosion that will only stop when there is no more fuel to the fire. What fraction of the population is the fuel is the mystery.

  125. IHTG says:

  126. @Jonathan Mason

    Remember our news networks led the charge to war with Saddam Hussein to take away his nasty germ warfare weapons, only we couldn’t find them even though Dick Cheney knew where they were!

    Remember our news networks led the charge to war with [Adolf Hitler] to take away his nasty [atomic] warfare weapons, only we couldn’t find them even though [Winston Churchill] knew where they were!

    Plus ça change…

  127. Corvinus says:
    @Mr. Anon

    “I’ve never heard any of them preface it with “pursuant to section whatever of the state code…..”

    It’s in the interest of the general public. For the welfare of citizens to keep us healthy and safe. We consented by way of the social contract. Businesses have licenses through the state. They agree to abide by orders by the governor in extenuating circumstances like natural disaster and pandemics.

    A major factor why we have not seen dramatic numbers of people being infected and going to hospitals has been social distancing by way of self discipline and the rule of law. Noncompliance would affect their business once this drastic but absolutely necessary measure ends. It’s called abiding by the state’s licensing authority.

    Furthermore, if a person who was ordered to remain in quarantine because they have an infectious disease, they are subject to subject to being arrested and put in jail. Their selfish behavior would potentially jeopardize the lives of their fellow citizens

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Mr. Anon
  128. 216 says: • Website
    @Bragadocious

    That would be a surprise for me. American progressives are not the type to ever lavish praise upon Spain, which isn’t considered that glamourous here. They normally tend to praise Canada, Australia, Sweden, and especially Denmark. The traitorous Merkel government has also resulted in some increased praise of German policies.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Bragadocious
  129. anon[102] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    A major factor why we have not seen dramatic numbers of people being infected and going to hospitals has been social distancing by way of self discipline and the rule of law.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
  130. B36 says:

    It isn’t a class war, it is a demographic war of old against young. The economic effects will be that the young will be immiserated for decades to give 80 year olds with COPD another 10 months of sitting in front of the TV on O2. Don’t flatten the curve, ration care. Not popular, but this is battlefield triage. (Full disclosure, I’m old but hyperlipidemic)

    • Replies: @Lugash
  131. @216

    They normally tend to praise Canada, Australia, Sweden, and especially Denmark.

    They praise xenophobic Denmark? They must not know much.

    • Replies: @216
  132. 216 says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    Fareed Zakaria loves Denmark, and Francis Fukuyama has lavished a lot of praise on them too. The “happiness index” also lavishes praise on the Nordics, even though many are rather high on antidepressent usage (lol secularism). In the US, antidepressant usage is high in Utah, which is frequently cited as a reason that the “repressive” LDS culture is bad.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  133. @Sean

    So the initial outbreak in China, taken to the Western front with unsanitary conditions of trench warfare and crowded trains troopships barack, then it becomes much worse for the second wave. Which the Chinese are immune to.

    Interesting theory, but it’s just a theory, right? I’ve seen similarly persuasive evidence that it originated in Mexico, but I am definitely not an expert on this. What I do notice is that GoodWhites insist that the 1918 pandemic originated in Kansas. They cling to that one as if their lives depend on it, because it’s all that stands between them and a pattern.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  134. danand says:

    California Governer Newsom is on the boob tube giving us a Corona update.

    The most interesting thing he said so far was that 3 counties have been “random tested”. Random individuals were tested in an attempt to determine the number of asymptomatic infected walking umoung us. Santa Clara County, San Deigo and another(?), were sampled. He did not revel anything about “the resutls”, but I’m guessing his recent “panic response” is based off what he/they/we learned.

  135. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Right? If only you Dems had succeeded in electing Andrew Gillum instead.

    PS: Google’s #1 story on Andrew Gillum:

    Was Andrew Gillum Set Up? Explicit Hotel Photos Leak As Sunken Conservatives Rejoice

    Conservatives were rejoicing after explicit photos leaked showing purported images from the hotel room where Andrew Gillum was involved in a suspected drug incident last week. Their reactions (and actions) could lend further credence to the suspicion that Gillum, the former mayor of Tallahassee and candidate in Florida’s 2018 gubernatorial election, may have been the victim of some type of political setup.

    Ya see? It was all just another right-wing media hoax.

    PPS: What’s a “sunken” conservative??

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  136. @anon

    Alan Miranda, who was making his first visit to Vive Latino and especially wanted to see The Warning

    No. No. This is not real.

  137. HA says:
    @epebble

    “it is best to assume this is like common cold – the fact that you got it this month doesn’t mean you won’t get it next.”

    I expect that’s because there are many strains of common cold — it’s a catchall that can be any of several different diseases. You might get some immunity to one of them, or one of the strains, but it doesn’t mean one of the others can’t get you. You DO get immunity to the particular strain you came down with, but even that is not forever:

    “Almost everybody walking around, if you were to test their blood right now, they would have some levels of antibody to the four different coronaviruses that are known,” says Ann Falsey of the University of Rochester Medical Center.

    After infection with one of these viruses, she says, antibodies are produced but then the levels slowly decline and people become susceptible again.

    “Most respiratory viruses only give you a period of relative protection. I’m talking about a year or two. That’s what we know about the [existing]seasonal coronaviruses,” says Falsey.

    It’s true, we don’t know for sure how things will be with this new coronavirus. So far, it seems particularly stable (though there’s a Singapore variant that’s somewhat milder). But I’m basing what I said on what most experts expect, which is that partial immunity would indeed be conferred to a survivor, but it wouldn’t last forever (and of course, if his or her immune system is suddenly compromised for some other reason, that the immunity would not prevent the viral load from flaring up again before recovery is complete).

    The point is, the biggest dubious assumption in my comment was the one where I assumed that the commenter I was replying to wasn’t spouting off like a total idiot.

  138. @216

    WHO ranks Spain #7 worldwide in healthcare, ahead of Denmark and Canada. Progressives see WHO as more or less a deity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  139. Kylie says:
    @Neoconned

    I’ve been thinking about King’s post-apocalyptic short story, “Night Surf”, which also features some survivors of Captain Tripps.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
  140. @Lot

    We also don’t have any fashions as sexy as what the cutie in the back is wearing. She’s Mary Arnold Miller, then just Mary Arnold.

    Are you sure? Thelma Comacho sang on the record. (Written by Mickey Newbury, by the way, who penned hit songs on the pop, R&B, country, and easy listening charts that year– different songs.)

    Maybe that’s Mary in the hot pants, but the timeline isn’t right.

    According to Mickey Jones’ book That Would Be Me, Thelma was fired from the group in late 1968 (soon after the release of “But You Know I Love You” and the aforementioned Smothers Brothers television appearance, but before the record would chart on the Hot 100), after missing too many gigs and rehearsals. For her part Thelma did not see it the same way. She has stated that while she always loved being with them in the studio, the road was too hard on her from a health and personal standpoint. Slowly growing apart from the others, Camacho began to feel restricted by the band in a number of ways. All agreed that the situation could not continue, and she was replaced by her roommate, Mary Arnold, an Iowa-born singer who beat out newcomer Karen Carpenter [!] for the job. Thelma appears on the first three LPs plus half of the fourth album. Mary made her debut on “Reuben James”.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Rogers_and_The_First_Edition#Early_days

    • Replies: @Lot
  141. @Greg Fiedler

    Most of the biochemists at Fort Detrick were probably white males. I don’t know. But I have a feeling. Just sayin’. Nothing against white males. It’s just that you’re probably wrong on this one.

    • Replies: @jbwilson24
  142. @Bragadocious

    Nationalized healthcare all over Europe has been savaged, thanks to choking off of funding by neoliberals like you. You know nothing.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  143. Gyre07 says:
    @Greg Fiedler

    We’re used to it. Abuse accommodation syndrome.

  144. Muggles says:
    @Louis Renault

    >>On a bright note the richest Mexican in history owns a big chunk of the NYT. I wonder how he got that rich.<<

    If I recall correctly, the answer is that the family of Carlos Slim was given (or purchased) the Mexican telephone monopoly and later most of the cellular services. This was done originally in one of the leftist (yeah, right) Mexican administrations (PRI) but basically continued through today.

    Started in the 1950s I think. Now someone here can correct me if that's wrong.

    Having a huge service monopoly is a great way to become an oligarch. This model has been copied or was copied from other Latin American nations, and many African nations. Such franchises are obtained by bribes and carve outs given to the politically connected. Has happened to a lesser extent in Europe and in the US.

    Crony capitalism.

  145. Muggles says:
    @Anonymous

    >>COVID-19 will go global. It will be interesting to see how much it penetrates Africa, where outside of South Africa (240 confirmed, 38 new cases, 0 deaths), outbreak numbers are low.

    The internet has to some extent sussed out the relationship between malaria and this virus. Tropical areas of the world will not get slammed with acute cases. Mild cases yes. The virus stalls when it encounters malaria resistant populations.

    Still it’s an issue because the media can create hysteria over a large number of cases even without many deaths.<<

    The problem with this half baked theory is that it becomes rapidly obsolete since the facts are now in that COVID-19 is rapidly expanding in Chinese run Africa. The "Internet" hasn't "sussed out" anything of value yet.

    From Unicef website, very first sentence when you spend 10 seconds in a google search: <<Every two minutes, a child under five dies of malaria. Most of these deaths occurred in Sub-Saharan Africa <<

    Must be nice to live in your fantasy world. There is no evidence that surviving malaria confers any kind of permanent Wuhan virus immunity. The COVID virus is exponentially growing in Africa. Lack of health reporting is not evidence of lack of disease.

  146. Muggles says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    >>I don’t know that. North Korea has a travel embargo. Since kungflu is not spread by the trade winds, it may very well have zero cases.<<

    There are many very good intelligence agency sources covering N. Korea: Russia, China, S. Korea, Japan, USA… Early on they said N. Korea was getting very sick fast. Then rumors of them killing supposed victims.

    Now, don't you think if that was even slightly true, that actual reporting of COVID-19 cases in N. Korea would drop to zero? But not actual sick people. Who would accurately report their disease that results in execution? So, it is highly likely this disease is rampant there.

    N. Korea shares a long and porous border with northern China. Most of it is the Yalu River. North China is the home of the Wuhan Virus. Lots of smuggling of people (out) and goods (in). Black markets, corruption. Plus nearly all of N. Korean trade is via nearby Chinese ports and via Chinese owned businesses.

    Like other shithole countries, you can't possibly believe stats from N. Korea.

  147. rexl says:
    @Anon7

    The free breakfast consists of mostly a bowl of cereal, and the free lunch mostly a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a piece of fruit. Now why can’t a parent do this. Here in Phoenix, Az. parents and kid is shown in the paper picking up this free breakfast and free lunch, while the SUV is idling. Can you believe it, it cost more to come and pick it up than both the breakfast and lunch are worth, together.

    • Replies: @epebble
  148. rexl says:

    Regardless of the Coronavirus, it has always amazed me that there is not more violence south of the border because of income inequality. Of course, I do not think most people of Mexico realize just how rich the wealthy of their country truely are, now do most Americans for that matter. I remember years ago seeing some rich mexicans queing up for a flight out of LAX. The ladies were made up, European or something similarly exotic, and even had their servants travelling with them. This was in the days before private jets were so common. I have always wondered about Americans thinking that if we get poor enough there will be a revolution, I am not so sure. It would have to be very quick, otherwise, it is boiling a frog.

  149. Anonymous[163] • Disclaimer says:

    People freaking out about the Italian death numbers need to understand co-morbidity. 99% of these people are already very ill with other conditions.

    Also if you’re younger it will help to study the monkey business that went on in the 1980s HIV/AIDS epidemic. The medical data became politicized (inflated) because the more victims the more attention the more government crisis budgeting.

    Healthy people and young people ARE NOT being wiped out by covid in Italy.

    The healthy and young ARE being wiped out by influenza in Italy as happens every flu season. In much larger numbers also.

    • Replies: @epebble
    , @128
    , @Negrolphin Pool
  150. epebble says:
    @rexl

    Here in Phoenix, Az. parents and kid is shown in the paper picking up this free breakfast and free lunch, while the SUV is idling. Can you believe it, it cost more to come and pick it up than both the breakfast and lunch are worth, together.

    Same here in Portland, OR; Very well dressed white parents with kids in SUVs and fancy cars picking up free food from school. Me and my wife were watching on local TV and thinking they look better dressed and have better vehicles than us ( we are upper middle class). I thought I will have to nearly starve before I can take food donation from a school with cameras rolling. Looks like some of today’s middle class has no shame at all!

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  151. epebble says:
    @Anonymous

    In today’s news, they had footage of overflowing ICU’s with people hooked to ventilators like in some movie (like some 20 or more per room). Plenty of them were young (20 – 40). The doctor was telling, in English, this will happen to you in 2 weeks or so unless you make dramatic change to lifestyle. He was almost pleading like someone from Hell texting people on earth to take care so that they not go there. In U.S., almost half are below 60.

  152. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anon

    They also found those who had had the Russian flu in the 1889 pandemic tended not to get the Spanish flu in the 1918 period, either.

    Russian Flu, huh? I guess that would be okay to say in the current year.

  153. @epebble

    Growing up in the South, I never heard of a white child getting a free school lunch. Free lunches were for the black kids who ate the marrow out of their drumsticks.

    I can’t imagine how the children of white parents with “UVs and fancy cars” could qualify. Or want to qualify. The Pacific NW seems like another planet.

    • Replies: @epebble
  154. Nick Diaz says:

    Steve Sailer:

    “The U.S. media are trained when reporting on epidemics to be on the alert for any hint of the dreaded Stigmatization of the Marginalized. For example, the AIDS epidemic was largely spread by needle junkies and addicts devoted to anonymous sodomy, but practically nobody knows that anymore due to massive retconning.’

    No, the reason why those gay men died is because they didn’t wear condoms and take other prophylactic measures to avoid being infected, even when it became clear that anal sex was one of the primary mechanisms of infection. The issue is one of *individual responsibility* and nothing else. You are making this a moral issue, and you *are* trying to stigmatize them for their sexuality, implying that it is more susceptible to spread infections and therefore a morally inferior form of sexuality.

    Likewise, the junkies died because of *conservative laws* that made them criminals. They used and reused needles because they couldn’t get new ones, not only because they couldn’t afford it, but also because someone purchasing too many needles calls the attention of the police, that enforce those conservative laws that arrest junkies just for being junkies. If the junkies could go to a state clinic and get the heroin injected from docotrs, I *garantee* their rates of infection would be very close to that of non-junkies.

    You don’t want gay men to get married, and you *also* don’t want them to have out-of-wedlock sex. So when are they going to have sex exactly according to you? Oh, right: never. You want gay men back in the closet like in 1950.

    There is a popular saying: “To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” Well, I will paraphrase that, and put my own spin:

    “To a conservative, every problem is a matter of conservative morality being violated, even when it clearly isn’t the cause of the problem.”

    I am so glad that the 1960’s happened. I am so glad that you are becoming a minority in the U.S, and taking orders at work from women, blacks, Latinos and gay men. You deserve this. You(white conservative males) are bad people and you deserve what is being done to you. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  155. @216

    The Danes, though, are more down-to-earth than most Europeans. In marked contrast to their anal neighbors in Sweden and Germany. It explains their saner approach to immigration.

  156. Sean says:
    @Anon

    The reporting from that time (Vaughan, 1921) indicates that the epidemic began on 5th March 1918 among the Chinese workers at Fort Riley, Funston (Kansas). Where it originally came from is not that enlightening however. The thing to concentrate on is that the virus appears to have become specialised on those who were of military age and by being packed close together and immobile removed constraint on the virus to keep people able to move about. It evolved “high specialisation and virulence”. Whatever the mechanism was, the highest lethality was in the age group of those on the Western Front and associated military barracks and transport. The people that it found easiest to infect.

    https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Pathogenic-Responses-among-Young-Adults-during-the-Shanks-Brundage/e9336f1409bd37bb831d391474fddf21132898f6/figure/0

  157. epebble says:
    @ben tillman

    This is no “qualify” food; it is just food donation by public, local food banks, grocery stores, businesses etc., We have periodic food donation campaigns to collect food for food banks. Because of the Covid, they setup a donation program for the children who are home bound and hence have no access to official food (and also for other family members who might have lost jobs). All very good and welcome; except the clientele appeared definitely not poor looking.

    Thinking again, I am wondering if some of the middle class folks didn’t find food on grocery shelves due to the run and felt the food bank to be an option. If so, I think that is excusable; hope they donate later when situation returns to normal.

  158. Anon[278] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dash

    African blacks tend not to smoke the way Asians and Europeans do, which means their lungs are more intact before Covid-19 hits, and Africans have a lot of type O blood, which appears to resist Covid-19 infection. They also get plenty of sunshine (Vitamin D) and exercise.

  159. Anon 2 says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Re:”have come out of the seventies”

    Actually, First Edition: Just dropped in … was released in 1968.
    It’s a late ‘60s counterculture song, describing an acid trip

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  160. Pericles says:
    @Tom Scarlett

    Globalist disease. Not that this can be mentioned by the um ackshuallies of course.

  161. Pericles says:
    @Anon7

    But, when students are at home and they don’t have fancy laptops and high-speed internet, it’s not equal anymore.

    “Won’t somebody think about the black students?”

    Lol, assuming they care and assuming that’s needed to watch videos even (and for the love of God, don’t open dem books and try to learn something by yourself).

    Instead of dancing on the school desks, dance on the kitchen table. Be creative.

  162. 128 says:
    @Anonymous

    Maybe the average middle aged American is a lot less healthy than the average middle age Italian? What is the obesity or metabolic syndrome rate like between 30 to 60 year old Italians and Americans?

  163. Pericles says:
    @obwandiyag

    Lol, just enjoy that you can piss and moan from the home of liberty and the $100 aspirin.

  164. @George

    My understanding is that around half of Mexicans have no form of social insurance because they simply don’t qualify. Even for those who do, it won’t get you a villa on Lake Chapala.

    The chief reason for this is obvious enough: Mexico provides its people what it can bear. This is a sobering reality given the entropic freefall of America’s demographics.

    My experiences with Mexicans largely matche Ron Unz’s various theses. Most are friendly to a fault, aren’t particularly violent, work hard, are not prone to criminality and are natural chefs like none other. The problem arises when basic needs go widely unmet. Given such conditions, Mexico is our crystal ball, the lab where the natural experiment has been run and its conclusions published in garish detail for any eyes hardened enough to inquire.

    *************

    I was in Vail in one of those afternoon buffet lines where everyone is wearing ski boots. A girl next to me caught my eye, a breathless beauty, way the hell out of my league. She’s with some guy who’s about a quarter century older than her who has movie-star grooming and movie-star looks. Then they start firing off that crisp staccato Spanish at one another that instantly marks the Mexican. I can’t help myself and start BSing with my best Noticiero Univision accent. She is all smiles and affability as many superlatively beautiful women are.

    My dad heard me talking to them and when I got back to the table asked me where they were from. I said Mexico. He said, “Bet you never met any Mexicans like that.”

    “Nope.”

  165. @Anonymous

    I was of the impression that the true Covid-19 mortality rate could not be greater than 10 percent, as some naive estimates would seem to indicate, based on the profiles of those in the U.S. who had succumbed, simply because mortality rates that high would have meant death rates that matched or exceeded the geriatric population itself.

    But a curious and somewhat counterintuitive thing happens when the skew in mortality weighs heavily towards the old or infirm. A skew of 5 people over age 50 dying to every 1 person age <50 who dies for a given illness might appear to us non-epidemiologists as being a fairly extreme skew towards older people having a far higher mortality risk.

    In this case, where there is a significant number of young people dying relative to old, the mortality risk to old people is actually quite high. Assuming a population of 100 people, 50 of whom are 50 or older and 50 of whom are younger than 50, a disease with a 5 percent mortality rate that affects the old group at 5 times the rate of the young group will produce an old-person mortality rate of around 8.5 percent and a young-person mortality rate of around 1.7 percent. This disease is considerably more lethal to the old than its nominal mortality rate would indicate.

    Seems plausible, right? Except the actual old:young skew in flu deaths is not 5:1 but an order of magnitude higher: more like 50:1. And what does this mean for the mortality rate of old people? For the disease that is vastly more lethal for the old than the young, a known mortality rate for old people will actually be lower. This is because such a large component of the total deaths are attributable to old/infirm patients — the total mortality rate effectively is the elderly and infirm mortality rate.

    All this means that Covid-19 can be starkly more dangerous than the common flu but still almost entirely spare the young.

  166. @Mr McKenna

    I don’t know where you’re making your observations. As for me, since I stopped riding BART, and haven’t ventured more than a half mile away from my home in a nice neighborhood, I have no idea what’s going on in places like West Oakland or around the Oakland Coliseum. Have people really stopped hanging out in groups on street corners, stopped playing pickup basketball, stopped browsing at the local CVS?

    The other thing is, what’s happening with the homeless? There were big, and dense, encampments under the freeways. I’d be surprised if they aren’t still there.

  167. @Captain Tripps

    Plus, they have less robust heath infrastructures and uncertain political leadership to handle the outbreak.

    Thailand, for example, seems to be taking a “lie back and think of England” approach

    Looks like we will get a fair evaluation of the overall effects of this. Thailand and Mexico volunteer to NOT wreck their economies but suffer deaths. The USA does the opposite.

    In six months, which country will have suffered more, do you think?

  168. @Anon7

    We have a sort of class warfare here. First, Obamacare forcibly enrolled young people to subsidize healthcare for older Americans. By using community to rating, young men were most disadvantaged. Les not forget the tax on tanning salons to help pay for it.

    Now, an old (Trump, McConnell, Pelosi) Political Group decides that the livelihood of the young, poorer, working people should be upended. Not because those young people are at serious risk of the virus, but because people over 65 will die at an accelerated rate. Those same over-65 people whose healthcare is largely paid for by young, struggling, working people, while those older people remain the wealthiest segment of the population.

    In countries like Norway where social benefits assist all, this isn’t such a problem. I expect Trump to push Medicare for All to defuse this.

  169. Lugash says:
    @B36

    That’s probably what’s happening in Italy right now, except it’s anyone over 65 that isn’t getting any heroic care. Scaled to the United States, it’s 4000+ deaths a day.

  170. Tlotsi says:
    @BenKenobi

    Canadians are so racist.

    • Thanks: BenKenobi
    • LOL: HammerJack
  171. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Looks like Mary to me. The membership timeline says she was the only woman in First Edition in 1972.

    Camacho was cute too after she grew our her hair.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  172. @Mr McKenna

    Are you suggesting they’re not more trustworthy than, say, the media or the Federal Government?

    Pompeo was recorded boasting about how the CIA would lie. Why do you think they’re telling the truth here? After all this is said and done, you’ll have the example of Mexico to contrast to the USA, one taking no mandatory measures (that happen to increase state power in the bargain) and one wrecking its economy to maybe save some older lives. I expect the USA government to claim that even more would have died without the ridiculous efforts we are making.

    Mexico will put the lie to that. Mexico Delenda Est!

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  173. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    DeSantis is a putz. A never-Trumper that switched once he saw which way the wind was blowing.

    And he barely beat this guy:

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/14/man-busted-with-andrew-gillum-in-hotel-room-with-meth-was-gay-escort/

  174. Bruno says:

    At the same time there are only 2 deaths in Mexico so it’s really an hasty generalization here

  175. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anon 2

    60s then?! Makes it even weirder.

  176. Mr. Anon says:
    @Corvinus

    So what is the law, idiot? The government is not supposed to just make up laws “in the interest of the general public”. Name the actual law, you mewling lackey.

    By the way, it is in the interest of the general public for you to f**k off. Everyone here despises you, in case you hadn’t noticed, moron.

    • Agree: William Badwhite
    • LOL: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Autochthon
  177. I don’t think journalists regard the race of the victims as a significant category, but medical researchers will probably have more information available.

  178. Anonymous[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna

    There’s been a huge battle in recent days on the Wikipedia talk page over whether to rename the article away from ‘Spanish flu’ to something else. The attempt failed for now, but any public figure who mentions ‘Spanish flu’ from now on can expect finger-wagging correction from SJWs.

  179. Anonymous[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bragadocious

    The WHO’s craven appeasement of China in this affair has been a big revelation. Not a word of criticism of the government that unleashed this plague on the world, but a frenzy of denunciation when the U.S. president notes that it came from China.

    The WHO henceforth should be considered a branch of the Chinese government.

  180. @anon

    TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) is a disease of certain members of the anon community, also commonly known as adhominosis vulgaris. Etiology is uncertain, research shows it to be a form of blindness in which the retina is flipped upside down, caused by looking directly at an ineffable object during worship ceremonies.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Reg Cæsar
  181. @obwandiyag

    “Most of the biochemists at Fort Detrick were probably white males. I don’t know. ”

    Not if they are under 45 they aren’t.

    The USA has been pretty much pumping Chinese through the STEM PhD pipeline for decades. 50% of STEM PHD students are Chinese, if not higher.

    It’s the most idiotic trend in US history, to import people from a rival nation to become your scientists and engineers. Nothing against Chinese, as I am a fan, but from a national security perspective it is outright idiotic to replace your technical class with foreigners.

  182. anon[132] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) is a disease of certain members of the anon

    Lol. Libtards are natural carriers of TDS and give it to each other not only face to face but also via channels such as NPR, PBS, CNN, ACLU and so forth. The endless wailing about Bad Orange Man is a result, as is your own very professional medical diagnosis of Trump that you belch up from time to time. I guess that ability to diagnose from a vid is something you learned in your many years of work in the field of corrections?

    Do you wear your wife’s pink knit hat to public gatherings, or just in the bedroom?

  183. @Lot

    Is that clip from 1972? It seems so 1968, in dress and in sound. That song would have been forgotten by 1972.

    What show were they on? Mike Douglas, in Philadelphia?

    • Replies: @Lot
  184. @Mr McKenna

    Was Andrew Gillum Set Up? Explicit Hotel Photos Leak As Sunken Conservatives Rejoice
    Conservatives were rejoicing after explicit photos leaked showing purported images from the hotel room where Andrew Gillum was involved in a suspected drug incident last week. Their reactions (and actions) could lend further credence to the suspicion that Gillum, the former mayor of Tallahassee and candidate in Florida’s 2018 gubernatorial election, may have been the victim of some type of political setup.
    Ya see? It was all just another right-wing media hoax.
    PPS: What’s a “sunken” conservative??

    Andrew Gillum, the White Marion Barry.

  185. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    From the youtube description:

    “ 1972 – “Rollin’ On The River” TV show. CTV, Canada. Kenny Rogers (1938-2020 vocal, bass); Terry Williams (lead guitar, vocal); Mike Settle (guitar, vocal); Mary Arnold (vocal, percussion); and Mickey Jones (1941-2018 drums). Song written by Mickey Newbury. Please support the music Kenny and the other members.”

    The best color videos from the classic rock era seem to be from Beat Club, the British TV show, plus a few similar German and Dutch shows.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  186. @Jonathan Mason

    A Jimmy Monaco tune!

    How is Monaco doing?

    Oh, eleven cases confirmed and active, no deaths nor recoveries yet:

    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

  187. @TomSchmidt

    Who mentioned the CIA? Where did that come from? FWIW, our government is irredeemably corrupt, and the MSM even worse. That doesn’t mean your average physician is somehow expert on the issues of the day. Your average physician isn’t an epidemiologist or statistician. But they’re trotted out and quoted as though they’re the Oracle at Delphi. Have you known any in your private life? They’re just people, though many are quite full of themselves. Because other people need to believe.

  188. Neoconned says:
    @Kylie

    Wasn’t that a prequel to the Stand?

  189. @Lot

    So 1968 didn’t arrive in Canada until 1972? Actually, that’s not so bad, because 1968 was a lot better than 1972, musically.

    In the other direction, the San Francisco quintet We Five covered Ian and Sylvia’s Canadian hit “You Were On My Mind”. Sylvia Tyson said she was unaware of this until she heard it on her car radio. It had already reached #1.

    • Replies: @Lot
  190. @Mr. Anon

    My wife reports the Man told her yesterday he will behin having police patrol and harass people going about their business beginning tomorrow. Supposedly one may go to purchase groceries or medicine at “essential businesses” and such but that otherwise There May Be Trouble.

    I took my son to the park today uneventfully; many other people capable of thinking for themselves and not decrepit were present. It was cozy.

    If we start being given the business for minding our business There Will Be Trouble. I have enough shit to deal with – I did even before this nonsense – without being hassled to confirm I really am picking up apple juice and diapers (and so what if I am not, Officer Krupke?).

    An ill wind blows, and the government needs stop acting like the population are employees….

  191. Mr. Anon says:

    It would be interesting to see civic groups formed organized around a platform of abolishing police departments. They could attend council meetings, run candidates, and vow to vote out any mayors / council members who wouldn’t massively de-fund police departments. Maybe then the boys in blue would figure out who works for whom.

  192. Dumbo says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    We have this idea that viruses are “bad” or “evil” (while we have “good” and “bad” bacteria), but if that was the case they wouldn’t exist. It is likely that viruses also serve a biological purpose other than just disease, or if not they are always there, and only appear when there is an excess of them and they cause disease – in other words, viruses are more a signal than a cause of a disease. Well, perhaps not for all diseases, but certainly for things such as AIDS, where it hasn’t been shown conclusively how the virus works.

  193. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “ 1968 was a lot better than 1972, musically.”

    Agree, but 68 might be the best year in US popular music history. 72 was quite good too.

    “The San Francisco quintet We Five covered Ian and Sylvia’s Canadian hit “You Were On My Mind””

    I’ve liked that song for a long time, wasn’t aware it was a cover.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  194. @Lot

    Agree, but 68 might be the best year in US popular music history.

    Oh, come on… 1924, 1931, and a few others come to mind.

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