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Concept of "Citizenism" Has Not Exactly Caught on
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From the Boston Globe book review section:

Battles over borders in ‘One Mighty and Irresistible Tide’
By David M. Shribman Globe Correspondent, Updated May 14, 2020, 2:30 p.m.

For more than four decades beginning in 1924 the United States, for generations the great nation of immigrants and the dream destination for the oppressed, turned from its fabled past, virtually shutting off immigration in a period when vast changes swept through Europe, Asia, and Latin America. The tired and poor were largely kept from our shores by a law that basically locked the American doors to many yearning to breathe free.

All that changed with the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act, which helped shape the America we now inhabit by transforming the demographics of the country even as the country confronted its exclusionary past during the civil rights era. One of the beneficiaries was the family of Jia Lynn Yang, whose mother from Taiwan and father from Shanghai found a home in the United States and whose devotion and diligence have produced a masterly study of political struggle.

Yang’s “One Mighty and Irresistible Tide” is at base a political story, and it is a uniquely American story, one to celebrate in this period when immigration once again is on the American agenda and when immigrants are targeted as criminals and coronavirus carriers.

This is a story of how Irish Catholic leaders like John, Robert, and Edward Kennedy worked with Jewish political figures like Emanuel Celler and Herbert Lehman and others in what Yang called a “coalition of the powerful and the powerless.” Together they produced a landmark immigration bill that was signed by a Protestant president, Lyndon Johnson, himself marked deeply by his early years teaching Mexican-American schoolchildren in Texas.

The 1924 law was an expression of xenophobia and paranoia,

Which is why the U.S. accomplished nothing in the years after 1924.

… For no American should ignore the last two sentences, perhaps the most thought-provoking of the entire immigration debate:

‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

 
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  1. Anon[348] • Disclaimer says:

    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

    Which must be why America is exactly like Asia, Africa, Latin America. So why are they all dying to come in again?

    • Replies: @I. Racist
    @Anon

    For the magic dirt, obviously. Stop bogarting the magic dirt.

    , @Mr. XYZ
    @Anon

    Coz we got da magic dirt, of course! ;)

  2. “Citizenism” how very “Orwellian”!

  3. “Citizenism” how very Orwellian! I wonder how my grandfather managed to slip through Ellis Island from Italy in the 30’s? According to the author that was impossible!

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @VinnyVette

    It certainly was a lot harder to get in after '24. There's a reason why during my time in Chicago '76 to present, I've met few Irish people who've kept the brogue, while my father growing up there in the '30s and '40s knew many, mostly older, and could do an impression of them that most people would find reasonably realistic. (He was only 1/4 Irish himself.)

    Replies: @VinnyVette

    , @Bugg
    @VinnyVette

    My in laws got in from Northern Ireland in the early 1960s. Of course, you had to be sponsored and work. There was no showing up with 4 kids and no means to support yourself. And in my father in law's case, went from one day being in the Irish Army to being in the US Army. For a time, having been a barkeeper's son, he managed the NATO Officer's Club in Paris(was bunkmates with Steve Lawrence). There has been a fundamental shift from demanding immigrants stand on their own feet and contribute to an expectation the US taxpayer is going to pay for people who showed up yesterday. Would readily grant there are a lot of Mexicans who come here and work their asses off. Nobody would have a problem being here but for the fact they cut the wages of Americans. And there are too many immigrants who don't want to work at all.

    Come to grasp Russians are mostly pretty good after a generation(less black on black suit combos).Was disconcerting to go to my son's hockey practice and hear blonde-haired boys talk to their teammates in unaccented English and then on a dime start talking Russian to mommy and daddy. Biggest issue appears to be they think every one of their kids is on his or her way to being Alex Ovechkin or Maria Sharapova. Still jarring to bike the Coney Island boardwalk and hear nothing but Russian spoken.

    However, can anyone can explain why post 9/11 there are suddenly Arabs and Muslims everywhere. Makes no sense. These people do not want to be Americans. Hope the Bushes and their neocon pals all burn in hell forever. They are not "yearning to breathe free", they hate us. WHY? At a loss why David Frum is not deported and William Kristol is allowed an internet connection.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

  4. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:

    What a cohencidence! Whenever I want advice about what’s good for people like myself and family, I always turn to names like David Shribman. More tired and poor people in my country improves the bejeesus out of my quality of life, just as it should do in Israel, right?

    • Replies: @dcthrowback
    @Anonymous

    According to Wiki, he was the editor of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette after the synagogue shooting in 2018. It was his choice to publish the Aramaic Jewish prayer above the fold the next day.

    He has dual citizenship...with Canada.

    Two daughters - one a rabbi (the other leads the SF Symphony).

    (Every. Single. Time.)

  5. ‘’So what difference is there between us, who have owned and lived in this house for generations, and the burglar outside who is dying to come in?”

    “There is none.”

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @Rob McX

    Thank you. What do you want to bet Jia Lynn Yang has a lock on her door?

    , @David
    @Rob McX

    I find it amazing how basic truths remain basic. From Aristotle's Politics (which David Frye never references), "Indeed to neglect surrounding a city with a wall would be similar to choosing a country which is easy of access to an enemy, or levelling the eminences of it; or as if an individual should not have a wall to his house lest it should be thought that the owner of it was a coward."

  6. ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks,

    • Thanks: RichardTaylor
    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @anon

    Love me some Red Dawn, but they're wrong. It's not because we live here and they don't. It's because they're another tribe.

    This land isn't ours by divine right. It's ours because we conquered it and were willing to keep others out.

  7. Concept of “Citizenism” Has Not Exactly Caught on

    Nor, obviously, has the concept of assimilation caught on, if we are to take Jia Lynn Yang as an example.

    Assimilation would have included becoming one with the people her parents joined and she grew up with, and joining us in protecting and identifying with what her parents came here for.

    But we here know this, and this is just the umpteenth restatement of it. You might say we here are assimilated.

    Americans understood this in 1924, and they forgot it in 1965.

    BTW, are we still at war with East Aerosolsia?

    • Replies: @swami cuckstein
    @Buzz Mohawk

    "BTW, are we still at war with East Aerosolsia?"

    You know damn well the CDC and the US Surgeon General always said masks were important for everybody to wear.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    , @Anon
    @Buzz Mohawk

    After a lifetime of observation, I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible for nonwhites to fully assimilate into white societies. It's been 400 years and blacks still have not fully assimilated, they remain distinct culturally, socially, economically.

    The only way for an immigrant to assimilate is if he/she arrives at a young age(no older than 18), alone, speaks fluent English, has high enough IQ to gain a STEM degree in a college in the US, gains citizenship/PR status on their own before intermarrying with a white native. If they marry someone back home, then they need to go back. The immigrant also must have limited contact with the family back home, rarely visits, and does not help anyone in the family immigrate to the US. The children who are 1/2 white will then become a lot more assimilated, and if they also intermarry with whites, then their 3/4 white children will have become wholly absorbed and assimilated.

    But chain migration, technology and air travels have made it much easier for immigrants today to keep in touch with their families back home, which makes assimilation near impossible. Which is why we need to end all immigration.

    And since Jia Lynn Yang was kind enough to inform us there is no difference between immigrants and natives, it must mean there is no difference between America and their native countries, which means there's really no more reason to immigrate.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Ancient Briton

  8. The 1924 law was an expression of xenophobia and paranoia,

    Which is why the U.S. accomplished nothing in the years after 1924.

    IKR? Only became the greatest nation the world has ever known, but why quibble?

    This is a story of how Irish Catholic leaders like John, Robert, and Edward Kennedy worked with Jewish political figures like Emanuel Celler and Herbert Lehman and others


    Oh no you dint!!!

  9. Irish Catholic leaders like John, Robert, and Edward Kennedy worked with Jewish political figures like Emanuel Celler and Herbert Lehman and others in what Yang called a “coalition of the powerful and the powerless.”

    In military terms known as “envelopment.”

    That was the nub of it. The working class was really annoying the Upper Crust thanks to the nagging hang-on of the “family wage” economy that was one of the few worthwhile legacies of the FDR era. (Not that FDR had anything to do with it: That was Dorothy Day and the Catholic League. The strange fact is pro-immigration Catholics, however many there were, destroyed the Family Wage with immigration as surely as if it had never existed.)

    It’s useful to rememher here that the job market was being crashed even as the ’65 act was installed: Civil rights was forcing emplyers to hire people they’d never considered previously. And in a few years, “paycheck feminism” effectively doubled the number of job seekers for what work was available… and after the oil shocks of the 70s combined with the inflation the Vietnam War created, the market became far smaller during the period following.

    This is why people see conspiracies: If the rich wanted to destroy the earning power of the rest of us, a strategy like that would be perfect. A three-pronged attack to increase the number of workers, permanently create a climate for endless litigation that destroys national morale, which creates an incentive to offshore. And that incentive was taken by a majority of serious industires.

    A simple strategy of the venal rich joining the venal poor to destroy the earning power of everyone in the middle. And the poor of the whole world gave them an eternal supply of ammunition.

    Reason enough for the cash-strapped middle to hang Jia Lynn Yang in effigy nationwide.

    • Agree: VinnyVette
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Franz

    As Monty Python said of Catholics, "You don't have to be a deep thinker/you don't have to have a big brain".

    Replies: @Hibernian, @TomSchmidt, @RSDB

    , @ben tillman
    @Franz


    That was the nub of it. The working class was really annoying the Upper Crust thanks to the nagging hang-on of the “family wage” economy that was one of the few worthwhile legacies of the FDR era.
     
    Utterly ridicuolous.

    Replies: @Franz

  10. For no American should ignore the last two sentences, perhaps the most thought-provoking of the entire immigration debate:

    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

    “Thought-provoking”?? Is that what Mr Shribman meant to say? Because it really sounds like a declarative pronouncement from on high, not a provocation in the direction of thought. And that’s the best the ‘entire immigration debate’ has to offer? Doesn’t sound like much of a debate.

    Don’t worry, though. We get the message. Everyone’s the same–exactly the same–until that bright shining day when the Tribe has permanently cemented its hold on America, at which point we’ll find out that we’re not the same at all. Some of us are in fact members of a tiny Ruling Class and the rest are effectively slaves. Here’s a provocation: can you really say we haven’t reached that day already?

    • Agree: ben tillman, Charon
  11. What difference is there between us, with our precious yellow skin, and others? There is none. So whites can lay claim to Asian identity, culture, legends, institutions, churches, temples, and schools, automatically and without any need to learn about said culture, language or history. Whites can arrogate to themselves thousands of years of Asian history, even when they are wholly ignorant of such, and more importantly can demand entree into Asian trading, business and wealth networks, regardless of cultural or social niceties. Whites can do so whenever they have the numbers and arms to force their way in, consequences be damned. And that includes occupation of the Asian heartland. Chinatown can be razed, its restaurants replaced by meatloaf establishments, its name changed to New Peoria or somesuch, after the new immigrants gain a complete majority. Goodbye, dim sum, Chinese New Year, Confucious, the Chinese language, etc. Wait, what? Suddenly this isn’t appealing to you? How racist.

    Maybe a thousand years from now, the shoe will be on the other foot.

    • Replies: @Charon
    @MattinLA

    In far less time than that, there won't be any white people at all.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

  12. @Buzz Mohawk

    Concept of "Citizenism" Has Not Exactly Caught on
     
    Nor, obviously, has the concept of assimilation caught on, if we are to take Jia Lynn Yang as an example.

    Assimilation would have included becoming one with the people her parents joined and she grew up with, and joining us in protecting and identifying with what her parents came here for.

    But we here know this, and this is just the umpteenth restatement of it. You might say we here are assimilated.

    Americans understood this in 1924, and they forgot it in 1965.

    BTW, are we still at war with East Aerosolsia?

    Replies: @swami cuckstein, @Anon

    “BTW, are we still at war with East Aerosolsia?”

    You know damn well the CDC and the US Surgeon General always said masks were important for everybody to wear.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @swami cuckstein

    LOL. My wife has been paying close attention to our telescreen, and that's not what she says.

  13. America is an economy masquerading as a nation. Has been true, is true and likely will be true. Past gave us slavery, present immigration and future brings what we know not. Covid seems to hint early vapors of failed state.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @anon

    To my great disappointment, I've come to the conclusion that the United States is a place on a map with an economy, and nothing more. America is an idea that is no longer operative.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

  14. @Rob McX
    ‘’So what difference is there between us, who have owned and lived in this house for generations, and the burglar outside who is dying to come in?”

    “There is none.”

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @David

    Thank you. What do you want to bet Jia Lynn Yang has a lock on her door?

  15. “So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

    Exactly right. Not sure if lil’ miss realizes it, but she’ll either have to “go back” or likely end up unceremoniously buried here due to ‘unnatural causes’ when national push comes to shove on the broader question of patriots vs. traitors/interlopers.

  16. Back in the early oo’s there was an article in the New Yorker by Sanjay Gupta promoting making hospital rankings/outcomes of stays available to the public by the names of the hospital , at the time they were not , I don’t know about now . One of the main supports for his argument was the varied outcomes in different hospitals for cystic fibrosis pts. Just by happenstance a month or so after I had read the article I had as a pt. a gentleman who was very high up in a foundation that was all about CF . I mentioned the article to him . He said Gupta had interviewed him for the article and he had explained to Gupta , which I’m surprised he had to , that different populations genetics determined the severity of the disease and the two main supports for Gupta’s argument were a hospital in the south , I don’t remember which one , where the genetic makeup of the CF sufferers led to them having a milder form of the disease that responded well to treatment . The other pop. in Gupta’s article was a hospital in the north where the people of a different genetic background generally had much worse outcomes because those people , Nordics I believe , carried a much more severe form of the disease . Of course that little bit of information didn’t make it into his article in The New Yorker , He does work for CNN now so you might say fake news is in his blood .
    Maybe Sanjay could do an article about whether Indian doctors are genetically predisposed to cheat the Medicare system , you know nature vs. nurture .

    .

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @donut

    He's likely to say you're confusing Pakistani doctors with Indian ones.

  17. This is a story of how Irish Catholic leaders like John, Robert, and Edward Kennedy worked…

    Actually, the real mean Mick would have been Philip Hart:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hart

    From the page on the Act itself:

    In establishing a restrictive entry system for Germany in 1925, Adolf Hitler…

    Betcha didn’t know Hitler was in power in 1925, already “establishing” things. What would we do without Wikipedia?

    …wrote of his admiration for America’s immigration laws:

    The American Union categorically refuses the immigration of physically unhealthy elements, and simply excludes the immigration of certain races.

    In other words, acting like any independent and sovereign country in Asia or Europe. Like, say, the one based in Peiping. Eh, Miss Yang?

    …Lyndon Johnson, himself marked deeply by his early years teaching Mexican-American schoolchildren in Texas.

    The Act didn’t apply to Mexicans. It did affect Mexican-Americans— by lowering their wage-bargaining power.

    Yang’s “One Mighty and Irresistible Tide” is at base a political story…

    Damn right it is. One mighty and resistible Tide Pod that is inadvisable to swallow.

    …and it is a uniquely American story

    Because we are a uniquely naive and stupid people. (Now watch Corvinus come along to defend us.)

    • Agree: fish
    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Reg Cæsar


    In establishing a restrictive entry system for Germany in 1925, Adolf Hitler…
     
    I edited the entry, and even the evil Grayfell couldn't figure out how to make the original insane entry work.
    , @Peter D. Bredon
    @Reg Cæsar

    It would be nice to have a cite to the actual Wikipedia page for "the act" rather than the Hart page. The wiki page for the Hart-Cellar Act that I can find

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

    doesn't have the Hitler quote. And MSNBC says you guys make stuff up.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  18. Citizenism will never catch on in a country with endless immigration from all over the world. It takes generations to integrate immigrants. Even Blacks haven’t fully integrated in American mainstream culture after 4 centuries, including 160 years of manumission.

    • Agree: Dtbb
  19. Anon[596] • Disclaimer says:

    Over on the other side of the world:

    Only foreign students at top of the class to get handouts in Japan

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/22/national/students-eligible-handouts/#.XsjATy9h0UE

    The government has set an additional criterion for foreign students hoping to receiving cash handouts of up to ¥200,000 ($1,900) for students struggling financially amid the novel coronavirus pandemic, making only those in the top 30 percent of grades eligible.

    This is a glass half full/empty situation: I’m amazed that Japan is paying any foreign students.

    On Twitter, a Japanese hashtag meaning “The education ministry should give all foreign exchange students the cash handout” has also been gaining traction.

    In explaining its decision, the education ministry said, “With many foreign students eventually returning to their home countries, we have set a condition to limit the handout to promising talent most likely to contribute to Japan in the future.”

    Various addiitonal “secret menu” requirements are also outraging the B-minus foreign students:

    According to the ministry, requirements for program eligibility include a reduction of over 50 percent in the monthly income from part-time jobs used to support tuition fees and, in general, a yearly allowance of less than ¥1.5 million from family. The student must also be living away from home.

    In addition, foreign students must be achieving high marks and have attained a grade point average of at least 2.30 in the past academic year. This accounts for the top 25 to 30 percent of students, the ministry said.

    Foreign students must also have a monthly attendance rate of over 80 percent, receive less than an average ¥90,000 allowance per month excluding that for registration and tuition fees, and not be a dependent of someone in Japan earning more than ¥5 million a year.

    So you have to spend you time as a student studying and attending class rather than making money to remit to the family back home or attending Foreign Student Lives Matter rallies, that study has to result in highish grades, and you have to actually be in financial need.

    In fact, if a school judges that a student would have to quit school for financial reasons, they can still get aid, despite their mediocrity. No hash tag for that yet:

    … those “deemed by their institutions as unable to continue their studies due to financial difficulties” will be eligible for the handouts, the ministry said.

    This whole program seems extremely generous, and the reaction has been very mean-spirited towards the host country. I would be taking names if I were the government: They really don’t want foreign student protest leaders getting long-term visas for Japan. Learn from the U.S.!

  20. “what is the difference between us, with our precious papers…”

    She is right about one thing: her “papers” are the only thing at all which gives her a claim to be “us”. For her, being an American is merely a matter of having the correct paperwork. After all, you really do need the correct paperwork in good order so that when your grandparents arrive from Shenzou, they can collect Social Security!

    Though she doesn’t seem to have asked herself: if there is no difference, then what is it exactly that makes HER papers so precious, whereas the papers of “those dying to come in” are so worthless they’re dying to get rid of them and have ours instead?

    • Agree: Mycale
    • Replies: @Pericles
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Though she doesn’t seem to have asked herself: if there is no difference, then what is it exactly that makes HER papers so precious, whereas the papers of “those dying to come in” are so worthless they’re dying to get rid of them and have ours instead?

     

    The magic papers just appeared one day, unfairly falling into the hands of whitey. The others had to make do with tragic papers.
    , @Hypnotoad666
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Exactly. White Americans were just coincidentally in the club everyone wanted to join. It's like the old line about how White Americans not only stole half of Mexico, they stole the "good half" with all the paved roads.

    , @ben tillman
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    She is right about one thing: her “papers” are the only thing at all which gives her a claim to be “us”. For her, being an American is merely a matter of having the correct paperwork.
     
    Indeed.
  21. ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none”

    Is this supposed to be profound? The big difference between me and the people dying to get in is my parents were American. This was their land. And it’s my land.

    This is just another variation of the ‘accident of birth’ tripe. No, I couldn’t have just as easily been born Mexican or French or Polish. See, my parents — who were American — decided to have a family. And here I am. There is nothing accidental about my nationality.

    • Replies: @anon
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none”


    So what difference is there between us, with our precious family heritage, and the people outside who are dying to come inside our home?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

  22. ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

    Correct.

    Citizenism is DOA. If it’s wrong to exclude others to maintain the ethnic character of your homeland, then there is no good reason to do it, certainly not paperwork.

    Whites have been taken in by a bait and switch. Before it was “we’re all Americans.” Now it’s “we’re all human.”

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Rosie

    By the way, any of you who have the stomach for it might want to check out "Trolls." The movie seemed to make some sort of attempt to reconcile the supposed love of diversity with the globalist determination to destroy it. The result was predictably meaningless and incoherent.

    (Hint: Queen Poppy and Queen Barb are both White.)

  23. @Rosie

    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”
     
    Correct.

    Citizenism is DOA. If it's wrong to exclude others to maintain the ethnic character of your homeland, then there is no good reason to do it, certainly not paperwork.

    Whites have been taken in by a bait and switch. Before it was "we're all Americans." Now it's "we're all human."

    Replies: @Rosie

    By the way, any of you who have the stomach for it might want to check out “Trolls.” The movie seemed to make some sort of attempt to reconcile the supposed love of diversity with the globalist determination to destroy it. The result was predictably meaningless and incoherent.

    (Hint: Queen Poppy and Queen Barb are both White.)

  24. “And how does the story end, grampa?”

    “Well… then, one fine spring morning, Yolanda, Vriswanathan, and N’Gmosa sucked in their bellies as tight as they could, and they squeezed, and squeezed, and squeezed with all their might until they made it over the border at last! And then, it was finally done! They were now Americans — and the very last ones. You see, there was no more room left in America, not a single inch. And everybody was finally brown, every single American was Of Color!”

    “So what did they do next, grampa?”

    “Well, silly, what do you think they did? They started building boats immediately, so that they could sail off to Antarctica, where the last remaining White people were. If they were lucky, and they didn’t freeze to death or drown, maybe then one day they could live next door to White people…”

    • Replies: @Stealth
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I think third worlders see white countries as a sort of non-renewable natural resource. In the same way we burn oil as fast as we can, knowing that when it's gone there will be nothing to replace it, people from the third world know that once they've dominated Europe, the US, Australia, etc, the party will be over. They're just trying to get their piece of it while it lasts.

    Speaking of fossil fuels, I wonder if white countries - presuming there are any left - will look as attractive to third worlders once all the easy energy that fuels us our lifestyle has been expended.

    Replies: @Rob McX

  25. Speaking of irresistible tides, this is on topic:

    New H-1B Legislation Proposes Giving Priority To U.S.-Educated Foreigners

    https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/new-h-1b-legislation-proposes-giving-priority-to-us-educated-foreigners


    The legislation, among other things, explicitly prohibits the replacement of American workers by H-1B or L-1 visa holders, clarifying that working conditions of similarly employed American workers may not be adversely affected by the hiring of an H-1B worker, including H-1B workers who have been placed by another employer at the American worker’s worksite.

    Specifically, the bill would prohibit companies with more than 50 employees, of which at least half are H-1B or L-1 holders, from hiring additional H-1B employees.



    Immigrants coming here on H-1B visas have made important contributions to Silicon Valley’s leadership in the digital revolution. We want to make sure that talent is coming to the U.S., but we also want to make sure that it’s being done with proper compensation.

    – Ro Khanna, U.S. Representative From California’s 17th District

    Note how ethnic South Asian Indian Congressman Ro Khanna casually refers to H-1B visa holders as “immigrants.” The H-1B program was explicitly intended to be not an immigration program, but a supplementary labor program.

    https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/05/20/h1b-salaries-of-these-companies-are-still-highest-in-2020-netflix-google-top-the-charts/

  26. @Rob McX
    ‘’So what difference is there between us, who have owned and lived in this house for generations, and the burglar outside who is dying to come in?”

    “There is none.”

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @David

    I find it amazing how basic truths remain basic. From Aristotle’s Politics (which David Frye never references), “Indeed to neglect surrounding a city with a wall would be similar to choosing a country which is easy of access to an enemy, or levelling the eminences of it; or as if an individual should not have a wall to his house lest it should be thought that the owner of it was a coward.”

  27. People need to re-examine the concept of a nation or country. Why is China China and Israel Israel? Are their national identities just accidental or irrelevant? Why do countries compete in world markets rather than regard themselves as one universal economy?

    Countries are defined by race, language, religion and their citizens’ having a shared history. Normal people want their countries to remain as they are and to have a continuous bloodline, a genetic thread linking the past and the future. Competition with other nations follows from that.

    Xenophobia is a defining characteristic of any nation that doesn’t want to be wiped out by immigration or globalism. That doesn’t mean loathing of foreigners, just the desire to keep them out. The likes of Jia Lynn Yang want Americans to forget all that. What they’re doing is weakening another race for the benefit of their own. They’re promoting universalism in the cause of nationalism.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Rob McX


    People need to re-examine the concept of a nation or country. Why is China China and Israel Israel? Are their national identities just accidental or irrelevant?
     
    In the case of China, it’s because that’s where the Chinese people have lived continuously for thousands of years. In the case of Israel, it’s because some Europeans decided to steal Palestine from the Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years.

    Xenophobia is a defining characteristic of any nation that doesn’t want to be wiped out by immigration or globalism.
     
    Apparently the Palestinians needed to be xenophobic.

    Replies: @anonymous

  28. Citizenism is a nice idea. Much like Esperanto, the Dvorak keyboard, the Deseret Alphabet, and every cool Idea of the Future that popular science and mechanics type magazines promoted in their heyday.

    Beefalo. Triticale. The Stirling engine. (Even Jay Leno, who has steam, turbine and antique electric vehicles, doesn’t have one of those.) Wally Minto with his Freon engine, and then, a Freon free air cycle air conditioning system for cars. Gyrocopters. George Spratt and his Controlwing airplane.

    And remember the Xanadu house, built by blowing up a hemispherical baloon and foaming it over and fiberglassing it in and out? Or for that matter, moldless sandwich aircraft construction, Taylor Paper Glass, etc, etc?

    Like all those others, Citizenism is ultimately a nonsolution to a nonproblem. It functionally possesses all the disadvantages of white nationalism, or any other ethnic nationalism, while offering no fundamental improvement that anyone who matters cares about. Typists were satisfied with the QWERTY keyboard, so Dvorak didn’t quite catch on. The economics of cows, wheat, and corn were fine as they were and so beefalo and triticale were ignored. Minto’s ROVAC air cycle system was bulky and noisy and Detroit liked the existing system, and the Japanese figured if Detroit didn’t want it it had to have some issue. (Had the Japanese took to it they’d have made it work, but there was no need. )

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @CarlosHathitachiTheSecond

    I switched to the dvorak keyboard for a while. I was a very fast typist under qwerty and Dvorak made me faster yet. However, the PITA factor of having to use random terminals in university put an end to that experiment. I can already type as fast as a lot of people talk with QWERTY, with some abbreviations. At this stage of my life I don't think the benefit is worth the cost, but in theory if everyone changed over life would be somewhat more efficient you would think.

    Citizenism is something of a stepping stone either to or from ethnic nationalism. Considering where society is now, it's a step in that direction.

    Replies: @Perplexed

  29. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    "what is the difference between us, with our precious papers..."

    She is right about one thing: her "papers" are the only thing at all which gives her a claim to be "us". For her, being an American is merely a matter of having the correct paperwork. After all, you really do need the correct paperwork in good order so that when your grandparents arrive from Shenzou, they can collect Social Security!

    Though she doesn't seem to have asked herself: if there is no difference, then what is it exactly that makes HER papers so precious, whereas the papers of "those dying to come in" are so worthless they're dying to get rid of them and have ours instead?

    Replies: @Pericles, @Hypnotoad666, @ben tillman

    Though she doesn’t seem to have asked herself: if there is no difference, then what is it exactly that makes HER papers so precious, whereas the papers of “those dying to come in” are so worthless they’re dying to get rid of them and have ours instead?

    The magic papers just appeared one day, unfairly falling into the hands of whitey. The others had to make do with tragic papers.

  30. @Rob McX
    People need to re-examine the concept of a nation or country. Why is China China and Israel Israel? Are their national identities just accidental or irrelevant? Why do countries compete in world markets rather than regard themselves as one universal economy?

    Countries are defined by race, language, religion and their citizens' having a shared history. Normal people want their countries to remain as they are and to have a continuous bloodline, a genetic thread linking the past and the future. Competition with other nations follows from that.

    Xenophobia is a defining characteristic of any nation that doesn't want to be wiped out by immigration or globalism. That doesn't mean loathing of foreigners, just the desire to keep them out. The likes of Jia Lynn Yang want Americans to forget all that. What they're doing is weakening another race for the benefit of their own. They're promoting universalism in the cause of nationalism.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    People need to re-examine the concept of a nation or country. Why is China China and Israel Israel? Are their national identities just accidental or irrelevant?

    In the case of China, it’s because that’s where the Chinese people have lived continuously for thousands of years. In the case of Israel, it’s because some Europeans decided to steal Palestine from the Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years.

    Xenophobia is a defining characteristic of any nation that doesn’t want to be wiped out by immigration or globalism.

    Apparently the Palestinians needed to be xenophobic.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @James Speaks


    Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years
     
    Definitely, thousands. Even Heroditus wrote of the good people of Palestine who worshipped Allah and spoke Arabic.

    Those who claim that the Arab language and Islam were spread by invading settlers from the Arabian peninsula are just engaging in Zionist revisionist history.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  31. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    "what is the difference between us, with our precious papers..."

    She is right about one thing: her "papers" are the only thing at all which gives her a claim to be "us". For her, being an American is merely a matter of having the correct paperwork. After all, you really do need the correct paperwork in good order so that when your grandparents arrive from Shenzou, they can collect Social Security!

    Though she doesn't seem to have asked herself: if there is no difference, then what is it exactly that makes HER papers so precious, whereas the papers of "those dying to come in" are so worthless they're dying to get rid of them and have ours instead?

    Replies: @Pericles, @Hypnotoad666, @ben tillman

    Exactly. White Americans were just coincidentally in the club everyone wanted to join. It’s like the old line about how White Americans not only stole half of Mexico, they stole the “good half” with all the paved roads.

  32. @Franz

    Irish Catholic leaders like John, Robert, and Edward Kennedy worked with Jewish political figures like Emanuel Celler and Herbert Lehman and others in what Yang called a “coalition of the powerful and the powerless.”
     
    In military terms known as "envelopment."

    That was the nub of it. The working class was really annoying the Upper Crust thanks to the nagging hang-on of the "family wage" economy that was one of the few worthwhile legacies of the FDR era. (Not that FDR had anything to do with it: That was Dorothy Day and the Catholic League. The strange fact is pro-immigration Catholics, however many there were, destroyed the Family Wage with immigration as surely as if it had never existed.)

    It's useful to rememher here that the job market was being crashed even as the '65 act was installed: Civil rights was forcing emplyers to hire people they'd never considered previously. And in a few years, "paycheck feminism" effectively doubled the number of job seekers for what work was available... and after the oil shocks of the 70s combined with the inflation the Vietnam War created, the market became far smaller during the period following.

    This is why people see conspiracies: If the rich wanted to destroy the earning power of the rest of us, a strategy like that would be perfect. A three-pronged attack to increase the number of workers, permanently create a climate for endless litigation that destroys national morale, which creates an incentive to offshore. And that incentive was taken by a majority of serious industires.

    A simple strategy of the venal rich joining the venal poor to destroy the earning power of everyone in the middle. And the poor of the whole world gave them an eternal supply of ammunition.

    Reason enough for the cash-strapped middle to hang Jia Lynn Yang in effigy nationwide.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @ben tillman

    As Monty Python said of Catholics, “You don’t have to be a deep thinker/you don’t have to have a big brain”.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Redneck farmer

    Mr. RF, the Kennedys are of the same tribe as Bill Buckley, Al Haig, Paul Ryan, Andy McCarthy, and Brett Kavanaugh.

    Replies: @Caledonian

    , @TomSchmidt
    @Redneck farmer

    Compare the resistance to population replacement of the elites in Catholic Poland and Catholic Hungary versus Protestant UK and USA.

    How much deep thinking were those elites doing?

    , @RSDB
    @Redneck farmer

    Those statements are not the same and should be separated by a conjunction rather than a slash.

    For instance, Monty Python skits, though evidently devised with a great deal of intelligence (a "big brain" metaphorically speaking), show little evidence of any kind of deep thought.

    Duhem thought this combination, which he called the "shallow and ample" mind, a national characteristic of the English, though he admitted exceptions, as in the case of Newton.

  33. @donut
    Back in the early oo’s there was an article in the New Yorker by Sanjay Gupta promoting making hospital rankings/outcomes of stays available to the public by the names of the hospital , at the time they were not , I don’t know about now . One of the main supports for his argument was the varied outcomes in different hospitals for cystic fibrosis pts. Just by happenstance a month or so after I had read the article I had as a pt. a gentleman who was very high up in a foundation that was all about CF . I mentioned the article to him . He said Gupta had interviewed him for the article and he had explained to Gupta , which I’m surprised he had to , that different populations genetics determined the severity of the disease and the two main supports for Gupta’s argument were a hospital in the south , I don’t remember which one , where the genetic makeup of the CF sufferers led to them having a milder form of the disease that responded well to treatment . The other pop. in Gupta’s article was a hospital in the north where the people of a different genetic background generally had much worse outcomes because those people , Nordics I believe , carried a much more severe form of the disease . Of course that little bit of information didn’t make it into his article in The New Yorker , He does work for CNN now so you might say fake news is in his blood .
    Maybe Sanjay could do an article about whether Indian doctors are genetically predisposed to cheat the Medicare system , you know nature vs. nurture .

    .

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    He’s likely to say you’re confusing Pakistani doctors with Indian ones.

  34. @MattinLA
    What difference is there between us, with our precious yellow skin, and others? There is none. So whites can lay claim to Asian identity, culture, legends, institutions, churches, temples, and schools, automatically and without any need to learn about said culture, language or history. Whites can arrogate to themselves thousands of years of Asian history, even when they are wholly ignorant of such, and more importantly can demand entree into Asian trading, business and wealth networks, regardless of cultural or social niceties. Whites can do so whenever they have the numbers and arms to force their way in, consequences be damned. And that includes occupation of the Asian heartland. Chinatown can be razed, its restaurants replaced by meatloaf establishments, its name changed to New Peoria or somesuch, after the new immigrants gain a complete majority. Goodbye, dim sum, Chinese New Year, Confucious, the Chinese language, etc. Wait, what? Suddenly this isn't appealing to you? How racist.

    Maybe a thousand years from now, the shoe will be on the other foot.

    Replies: @Charon

    In far less time than that, there won’t be any white people at all.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Charon

    There will, and they'll be a lot tougher and meaner than we are.

    Replies: @Charon

  35. SFG says:

    I think it’s what most people in the middle believe (I don’t care what color you are just learn English, don’t swamp the job markets, don’t have six kids you can’t pay for, and don’t mug me), but the middle is famously less organized and enthusiastic. Moderates don’t donate to campaigns or man phone banks.

    • Agree: Hibernian
  36. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @CarlosHathitachiTheSecond
    Citizenism is a nice idea. Much like Esperanto, the Dvorak keyboard, the Deseret Alphabet, and every cool Idea of the Future that popular science and mechanics type magazines promoted in their heyday.

    Beefalo. Triticale. The Stirling engine. (Even Jay Leno, who has steam, turbine and antique electric vehicles, doesn't have one of those.) Wally Minto with his Freon engine, and then, a Freon free air cycle air conditioning system for cars. Gyrocopters. George Spratt and his Controlwing airplane.

    And remember the Xanadu house, built by blowing up a hemispherical baloon and foaming it over and fiberglassing it in and out? Or for that matter, moldless sandwich aircraft construction, Taylor Paper Glass, etc, etc?

    Like all those others, Citizenism is ultimately a nonsolution to a nonproblem. It functionally possesses all the disadvantages of white nationalism, or any other ethnic nationalism, while offering no fundamental improvement that anyone who matters cares about. Typists were satisfied with the QWERTY keyboard, so Dvorak didn't quite catch on. The economics of cows, wheat, and corn were fine as they were and so beefalo and triticale were ignored. Minto's ROVAC air cycle system was bulky and noisy and Detroit liked the existing system, and the Japanese figured if Detroit didn't want it it had to have some issue. (Had the Japanese took to it they'd have made it work, but there was no need. )

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I switched to the dvorak keyboard for a while. I was a very fast typist under qwerty and Dvorak made me faster yet. However, the PITA factor of having to use random terminals in university put an end to that experiment. I can already type as fast as a lot of people talk with QWERTY, with some abbreviations. At this stage of my life I don’t think the benefit is worth the cost, but in theory if everyone changed over life would be somewhat more efficient you would think.

    Citizenism is something of a stepping stone either to or from ethnic nationalism. Considering where society is now, it’s a step in that direction.

    • Replies: @Perplexed
    @Anonymous

    I had a job that was typing all day and started to develop carpal tunnel. Over a four-day holiday I retrained myself on Dvorak, which groups the most-used characters to minimize stretching. My wrists have been fine ever since.

  37. Citizenism is meaningless.

    To be more specific, there are essentially two models for nationhood: “Greek” & “Roman”. “Greek” is an ethno-nationalist (common ancestry, language, customs, frequently religion, a sense of common identity & destiny). “Roman” is the progenitor of “civic nationalism” – you belong to a nation if you are citizen, never mind your origin or race or culture. In reality, actual ancient Romans never developed anything from it.

    “Greek” model became the template for Central & East European nations (Germans, Czechs, Poles, Croats, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Russians,…) & it was later called ethnic nationalism. “Roman” model was dominant in Western Europe (France, Britain, Spain,…), named “civic nationalism”.

    But “civic nationalism” is a conundrum. Essentially, more powerful ethnies in those countries used it as a fig-leaf to assimilate other peoples (linguistically, culturally) into their ethnic corpus, while pretending to remain “fair” & non-imposing. In France, French assimilated groups like Bretons or Gascons, and even clearly different German-speaking Alsatians; in Britain, English tried, with more or less success, to assimilate Welsh & Scots & others; in Spain, Castilians to absorb Catalans, Basques, Valencians, ..).

    So, in all cases of “civic nationalism” it is: a) a mask for more powerful ethnic nation to absorb phenotypically- unlike linguistically-culturally- not much different “others”, b) there was not, anytime, an intent to absorb different races (real race-mixing on a significant scale was not technically possible, or in rare cases, it was shunned) or to live side by side with really different cultures (Muslims, Hindus,…). Jews were generally allowed to stay, but they were put into ghettos. They themselves did not want to become a part of, say, French or Spanish “nation”, nor were locals- mostly- enthusiastic about that.

    Any real nation is an extended family with common identity & historical culture.

    In the New World, national question is something like a puzzle. Are there nations at all?

    In my view, Canadian nation never existed; American nation did exist from, say, 1790s to 1970s & it was composed of English-speaking whites belonging to Western culture (forms of Christianity & marginally diluted Judaism) & cherishing specifically American national traditions (founding fathers etc). Freed blacks never belonged to the American nation, but they had been American national minority; various Indian peoples living in reservations were not “American” in any national sense.

    When we come to the Hispanic & Portuguese Americas, we see that Bolivar tried to unite all Hispanophone countries in a “nation”, but he failed. Are Mexicans a nation? I don’t know, perhaps they are, a Mestizo nation ruled by light Mestizo/white elite & common culture (language, religion, mostly post-Conquistador history). Peruvians? Bolivians? No, there are too many Indians speaking various non-European languages. Brazilians? Yes & no. They may be considered to be a stratified people where whites clearly dominate & they are defined by their language, different from Spanish (and in a few pockets of Dutch and English) by which they are surrounded.

    So, “proposition nation” of citizenship has never existed & will never exist. In the world of mass migrations, anti-white advocates try to impose this ludicrous concept on “receiving” countries, which are almost 100% white European in history, culture or identity.

    We all know that there is no chance that anyone rational could consider a black to belong to the Swedish people, even if he speaks only Swedish & lives in that historical-geographic-cultural space; nor would we think that a bunch of whites of, say, Slovak origin could be considered Koreans, even if they totally assimilate into Korean culture. And numbers are crucial: just let, say, 100 million Chinese in Russia & let them assimilate, become Orthodox & speak only Russian as their national language. Would Evgeny Hungovich Pingpongovsky be a Russian, just like the rest- and those Pingpongovskies would constitute 40% of the country?

    Enough with this lunacy….

  38. “The 1924 law was an expression of xenophobia and paranoia . . .”

    We can look around the world and see how well multiculturalism works out. lol

    By the way, has the Boston Globe called Israeli immigration law an expression of xenophobia and paranoia? Is so, I must have missed it.

  39. If there’s no difference why complain when Karen writes a Mexican Cookbook?

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @Skyler_the_Weird

    I wonder, is it my imagination that keeps conjuring up complaints of racial/ethnic appropriation lodged by the identitarian PC/SJW brigades??

    Voices in my head?

  40. Society is a racial construct.

    Those dying to come in will ruin what is already here.

    Let them die at home.

  41. @VinnyVette
    "Citizenism" how very Orwellian! I wonder how my grandfather managed to slip through Ellis Island from Italy in the 30's? According to the author that was impossible!

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Bugg

    It certainly was a lot harder to get in after ’24. There’s a reason why during my time in Chicago ’76 to present, I’ve met few Irish people who’ve kept the brogue, while my father growing up there in the ’30s and ’40s knew many, mostly older, and could do an impression of them that most people would find reasonably realistic. (He was only 1/4 Irish himself.)

    • Replies: @VinnyVette
    @Hibernian

    Certainly it was more difficult. My point was that we had a smarter immigration policy, "controlled" immigration. You had to be tested for communicable diseases, you had to show the ability to become gainfully employed have sponsorship here etc... The article makes it seem as though there was "zero" immigration after 1924. And of course Irish and Italian Catholics were not exactly welcomed at that time with open arms as I'm sure you are well aware. Although my grandfather spoke pretty good English when he got pissed it rolled into alot of Italian curse words the "brogue" if you will! In Buffalo NY where my grandfather settled my neighborhood South Buffalo was Irish / Italian... Guess we kinda stuck together. It was a very cohesive community. Not any longer of course as it's been "invaded"!

  42. We need “precious papers” to drive and cash checks. We used to need them to vote; now that is passe.

    • Agree: VinnyVette
  43. @Redneck farmer
    @Franz

    As Monty Python said of Catholics, "You don't have to be a deep thinker/you don't have to have a big brain".

    Replies: @Hibernian, @TomSchmidt, @RSDB

    Mr. RF, the Kennedys are of the same tribe as Bill Buckley, Al Haig, Paul Ryan, Andy McCarthy, and Brett Kavanaugh.

    • Replies: @Caledonian
    @Hibernian

    Your point being?

    Replies: @Hibernian

  44. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    "And how does the story end, grampa?"

    "Well... then, one fine spring morning, Yolanda, Vriswanathan, and N'Gmosa sucked in their bellies as tight as they could, and they squeezed, and squeezed, and squeezed with all their might until they made it over the border at last! And then, it was finally done! They were now Americans -- and the very last ones. You see, there was no more room left in America, not a single inch. And everybody was finally brown, every single American was Of Color!"

    "So what did they do next, grampa?"

    "Well, silly, what do you think they did? They started building boats immediately, so that they could sail off to Antarctica, where the last remaining White people were. If they were lucky, and they didn't freeze to death or drown, maybe then one day they could live next door to White people..."

    Replies: @Stealth

    I think third worlders see white countries as a sort of non-renewable natural resource. In the same way we burn oil as fast as we can, knowing that when it’s gone there will be nothing to replace it, people from the third world know that once they’ve dominated Europe, the US, Australia, etc, the party will be over. They’re just trying to get their piece of it while it lasts.

    Speaking of fossil fuels, I wonder if white countries – presuming there are any left – will look as attractive to third worlders once all the easy energy that fuels us our lifestyle has been expended.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Stealth


    I think third worlders see white countries as a sort of non-renewable natural resource. In the same way we burn oil as fast as we can, knowing that when it’s gone there will be nothing to replace it, people from the third world know that once they’ve dominated Europe, the US, Australia, etc, the party will be over.
     
    That's certainly how it is - it's only the fact that they have white majorities that makes white countries so desirable. Whether the immigrants see it that way, I don't know. Our countries will be good for another generation or two even with unrestricted immigration, and the non-whites probably don't look beyond that horizon.
  45. anonymous[190] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks
    @Rob McX


    People need to re-examine the concept of a nation or country. Why is China China and Israel Israel? Are their national identities just accidental or irrelevant?
     
    In the case of China, it’s because that’s where the Chinese people have lived continuously for thousands of years. In the case of Israel, it’s because some Europeans decided to steal Palestine from the Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years.

    Xenophobia is a defining characteristic of any nation that doesn’t want to be wiped out by immigration or globalism.
     
    Apparently the Palestinians needed to be xenophobic.

    Replies: @anonymous

    Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years

    Definitely, thousands. Even Heroditus wrote of the good people of Palestine who worshipped Allah and spoke Arabic.

    Those who claim that the Arab language and Islam were spread by invading settlers from the Arabian peninsula are just engaging in Zionist revisionist history.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @anonymous

    The residents of Palestine worshipped whatever their Hittite or Egyptian masters worshipped and they spoke, among others, Syriac and Aramaic.

    Replies: @anonymous

  46. Bugg says:
    @VinnyVette
    "Citizenism" how very Orwellian! I wonder how my grandfather managed to slip through Ellis Island from Italy in the 30's? According to the author that was impossible!

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Bugg

    My in laws got in from Northern Ireland in the early 1960s. Of course, you had to be sponsored and work. There was no showing up with 4 kids and no means to support yourself. And in my father in law’s case, went from one day being in the Irish Army to being in the US Army. For a time, having been a barkeeper’s son, he managed the NATO Officer’s Club in Paris(was bunkmates with Steve Lawrence). There has been a fundamental shift from demanding immigrants stand on their own feet and contribute to an expectation the US taxpayer is going to pay for people who showed up yesterday. Would readily grant there are a lot of Mexicans who come here and work their asses off. Nobody would have a problem being here but for the fact they cut the wages of Americans. And there are too many immigrants who don’t want to work at all.

    Come to grasp Russians are mostly pretty good after a generation(less black on black suit combos).Was disconcerting to go to my son’s hockey practice and hear blonde-haired boys talk to their teammates in unaccented English and then on a dime start talking Russian to mommy and daddy. Biggest issue appears to be they think every one of their kids is on his or her way to being Alex Ovechkin or Maria Sharapova. Still jarring to bike the Coney Island boardwalk and hear nothing but Russian spoken.

    However, can anyone can explain why post 9/11 there are suddenly Arabs and Muslims everywhere. Makes no sense. These people do not want to be Americans. Hope the Bushes and their neocon pals all burn in hell forever. They are not “yearning to breathe free”, they hate us. WHY? At a loss why David Frum is not deported and William Kristol is allowed an internet connection.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Bugg

    The CivNat is strong in this one.

    Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not. Stop believing the indoctrination. I'm sure that you're aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The "hard-working" Mexican's kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican. That's fine. I don't hate Mexicans. I just don't want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico.

    Grow up.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Corvinus

  47. @Hibernian
    @VinnyVette

    It certainly was a lot harder to get in after '24. There's a reason why during my time in Chicago '76 to present, I've met few Irish people who've kept the brogue, while my father growing up there in the '30s and '40s knew many, mostly older, and could do an impression of them that most people would find reasonably realistic. (He was only 1/4 Irish himself.)

    Replies: @VinnyVette

    Certainly it was more difficult. My point was that we had a smarter immigration policy, “controlled” immigration. You had to be tested for communicable diseases, you had to show the ability to become gainfully employed have sponsorship here etc… The article makes it seem as though there was “zero” immigration after 1924. And of course Irish and Italian Catholics were not exactly welcomed at that time with open arms as I’m sure you are well aware. Although my grandfather spoke pretty good English when he got pissed it rolled into alot of Italian curse words the “brogue” if you will! In Buffalo NY where my grandfather settled my neighborhood South Buffalo was Irish / Italian… Guess we kinda stuck together. It was a very cohesive community. Not any longer of course as it’s been “invaded”!

  48. Interesting in that after the world’s misfits and rejects flee to America, they work to transform it into the hell hole from whence they fled. Not logical. But whoever said misfits and rejects are logical.

    And it is not a positive for America to increasingly become a third world country with an oversupply of misfits and rejects.

  49. Anon[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Concept of "Citizenism" Has Not Exactly Caught on
     
    Nor, obviously, has the concept of assimilation caught on, if we are to take Jia Lynn Yang as an example.

    Assimilation would have included becoming one with the people her parents joined and she grew up with, and joining us in protecting and identifying with what her parents came here for.

    But we here know this, and this is just the umpteenth restatement of it. You might say we here are assimilated.

    Americans understood this in 1924, and they forgot it in 1965.

    BTW, are we still at war with East Aerosolsia?

    Replies: @swami cuckstein, @Anon

    After a lifetime of observation, I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible for nonwhites to fully assimilate into white societies. It’s been 400 years and blacks still have not fully assimilated, they remain distinct culturally, socially, economically.

    The only way for an immigrant to assimilate is if he/she arrives at a young age(no older than 18), alone, speaks fluent English, has high enough IQ to gain a STEM degree in a college in the US, gains citizenship/PR status on their own before intermarrying with a white native. If they marry someone back home, then they need to go back. The immigrant also must have limited contact with the family back home, rarely visits, and does not help anyone in the family immigrate to the US. The children who are 1/2 white will then become a lot more assimilated, and if they also intermarry with whites, then their 3/4 white children will have become wholly absorbed and assimilated.

    But chain migration, technology and air travels have made it much easier for immigrants today to keep in touch with their families back home, which makes assimilation near impossible. Which is why we need to end all immigration.

    And since Jia Lynn Yang was kind enough to inform us there is no difference between immigrants and natives, it must mean there is no difference between America and their native countries, which means there’s really no more reason to immigrate.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anon


    The only way for an immigrant to assimilate is if he/she arrives at a young age(no older than 18), alone, speaks fluent English, has high enough IQ to gain a STEM degree in a college in the US, gains citizenship/PR status on their own before intermarrying with a white native.
     
    The age is off by a few years, but other than that you just described my wife.
    , @Ancient Briton
    @Anon

    Native Anglosphericals tend to assimilate in my observation. I include myself in that comment.

  50. @Charon
    @MattinLA

    In far less time than that, there won't be any white people at all.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    There will, and they’ll be a lot tougher and meaner than we are.

    • Replies: @Charon
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Mud huts in Lapland or Tasmania.

  51. Steve, how recently have you read Bowling Alone, about the collapse of American social capital? I can send you the notes I took from the book, scanned highlighted pages. Putnam notices that the decline in American social capital begins 1965-1970, and is puzzled. He posits that the Civil Rights movement might be a cause, with a destruction of “bonding” social capital within groups not made up by an increase in “bridging” social capital between groups.

    Needless to say, I did not find evidence that he thinks outside the black-white box to investigate something that happened in 1965.

    • Replies: @VinnyVette
    @TomSchmidt

    I wager to guess a huge factor in this is that is the fulcrum point of second wave feminism combined with easy no fault divorce and the destruction of the nuclear family in addition to what you noted.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

  52. @Redneck farmer
    @Franz

    As Monty Python said of Catholics, "You don't have to be a deep thinker/you don't have to have a big brain".

    Replies: @Hibernian, @TomSchmidt, @RSDB

    Compare the resistance to population replacement of the elites in Catholic Poland and Catholic Hungary versus Protestant UK and USA.

    How much deep thinking were those elites doing?

    • Agree: Hibernian
  53. Citizenism hasn’t caught on because it ignores basic human nature. Humans evolved to be tribal which means that WASPs are pro-WASP, blacks are pro-black, Jews are pro-Jew and so on and so forth.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Joe Walker

    WAPSs are pro-WASP, blacks are pro-black, Jews are pro-Jew

    I'm not so sure about the first part there.

  54. Citizenism never caught on because, like Libertarianism or Communism, it reduces humans to economic units, which is both abominable and, eventually, unworkable.

    A brilliant thinker once described race/ethnicity as an extended family. Citizenism asks me to put money ahead of my family. The Japanese would never let a million non-Japanese permanently move into their country, even if those immigrants improved the economic welfare of every ethnic Japanese citizen.

    Citizenism says that the Japanese should let them in. That alone shows the folly of it.

    Face it, Citizenism was always Steve’s triple bank shot to slow/stop immigration and keep whites in control of the country in a way that was palatable to CivNat Republicans and the few remaining Dems who still cared about the working class. It was worth a try, but it failed.

    Regardless, that ship sailed long ago. Neither Citizenism nor Civic Nationalism are going to save the day. We’re not voting our way out of this. The game already has turned tribal; it’s just that whites aren’t playing because they haven’t realized the world that they grew up in no longer exists.

    The day whites start playing the tribal game, things will get very interesting. If whites refuse to play due to our genetics or indoctrination, well, we deserve to become the other tribes’ helots.

    • Agree: Rob McX, Joseph Doaks
    • LOL: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The Japanese are importing economically-beneficial non-ethnics, and globalization and open borders ideology also reduce people to economic units but have caught on very nicely indeed.

    Citizenism has failed to catch on because over half the political class benefits from undermining anything that might contribute to its development.

  55. @TomSchmidt
    Steve, how recently have you read Bowling Alone, about the collapse of American social capital? I can send you the notes I took from the book, scanned highlighted pages. Putnam notices that the decline in American social capital begins 1965-1970, and is puzzled. He posits that the Civil Rights movement might be a cause, with a destruction of "bonding" social capital within groups not made up by an increase in "bridging" social capital between groups.

    Needless to say, I did not find evidence that he thinks outside the black-white box to investigate something that happened in 1965.

    Replies: @VinnyVette

    I wager to guess a huge factor in this is that is the fulcrum point of second wave feminism combined with easy no fault divorce and the destruction of the nuclear family in addition to what you noted.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @VinnyVette

    The nuclear family is a hothouse flower of post-war economic efflorescence. Ronald Reagan signing the first no-fault divorce law is about the time, though. Now, what was it about the economy of the time that it began to become imperative to send women out of the home to earn money? The real drop in working class wages started to become obvious around 1973.

    Throw divorce culture on top of declining breadwinner wages and you have a catastrophe. Much like the catastrophe of nursing homes. Interesting David Brooks article:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-nuclear-family-was-a-mistake/605536/




    As the years go by in the movie, the extended family plays a smaller and smaller role. By the 1960s, there’s no extended family at Thanksgiving. It’s just a young father and mother and their son and daughter, eating turkey off trays in front of the television. In the final scene, the main character is living alone in a nursing home, wondering what happened. “In the end, you spend everything you’ve ever saved, sell everything you’ve ever owned, just to exist in a place like this.
     
    Substituting economic work for more important non-paid work led us here. Increased wage pressure from immigration helped drive that.
  56. Maybe, just maybe, if white racist, imperialist colonialists hadn’t strip mined all the magic dirt from Asia and Africa and stolen it away to the West in the olden days, we wouldn’t be seeing this mighty and irresistible blood foamed tide.

  57. “Citizenism” makes me think of the society in “Starship Troopers” where only those that served in the the military were entitled to become citizens.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    You could still become a citizen even if you weren’t fit for military duty. They idea is you are performing service and
    had to be willing to sacrifice your own interests for the Nation. If nothing else you could volunteer as a subject for medical testing. Or as Heinlein put it if you were deaf and blind you would be in Antarctica counting hairs on the back of a caterpillar.

  58. anon[168] • Disclaimer says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)
    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none"

    Is this supposed to be profound? The big difference between me and the people dying to get in is my parents were American. This was their land. And it's my land.

    This is just another variation of the 'accident of birth' tripe. No, I couldn't have just as easily been born Mexican or French or Polish. See, my parents -- who were American -- decided to have a family. And here I am. There is nothing accidental about my nationality.

    Replies: @anon

    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none”

    So what difference is there between us, with our precious family heritage, and the people outside who are dying to come inside our home?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

  59. Which is why the U.S. accomplished nothing in the years after 1924.

    Not so. In the Scopes “Monkey Trial” of 1925 a schoolteacher was convicted of teaching about Darwin’s theory of evolution and fined $100 in, though the fine was later overturned.

    After this victory for the Old Time common-sense American values of truth and justice, it was all downhill on a slippery slope.

    One of the lead lawyers in the trial was William Jennings Bryan, who, like Biden, ran for President until he had one foot in the grave. He died five days after the trial ended, himself quickly becoming part of the fossil record, and public education soon became science-based instead of religious-based, with the death of God officially announced in Time Magazine in 1966.

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  60. @Anonymous
    What a cohencidence! Whenever I want advice about what's good for people like myself and family, I always turn to names like David Shribman. More tired and poor people in my country improves the bejeesus out of my quality of life, just as it should do in Israel, right?

    Replies: @dcthrowback

    According to Wiki, he was the editor of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette after the synagogue shooting in 2018. It was his choice to publish the Aramaic Jewish prayer above the fold the next day.

    He has dual citizenship…with Canada.

    Two daughters – one a rabbi (the other leads the SF Symphony).

    (Every. Single. Time.)

  61. @swami cuckstein
    @Buzz Mohawk

    "BTW, are we still at war with East Aerosolsia?"

    You know damn well the CDC and the US Surgeon General always said masks were important for everybody to wear.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    LOL. My wife has been paying close attention to our telescreen, and that’s not what she says.

  62. The 1924 law kept out the tired and poor? Seems like the tired ones could have got a good nights sleep on the ship and breezed on through

  63. @Hibernian
    @Redneck farmer

    Mr. RF, the Kennedys are of the same tribe as Bill Buckley, Al Haig, Paul Ryan, Andy McCarthy, and Brett Kavanaugh.

    Replies: @Caledonian

    Your point being?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Caledonian

    He was replying to a post about the Kennedys; it was a general strike at us Catholics, to be sure, but using the Kennedys as an example. I was in the mood to counter; in a better mood I would have just ignored it. I think you know this without my telling you. And I'm fully aware that Haig, Buckley, etc., are not plaster saints; almost no one is.

  64. ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

    Obviously, it’s the difference between makers and takers.

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
    @ben tillman

    Given the unknown pervasiveness of illegal immigrant labor and the fact illegal immigrants are ineligible for many benefits in the US, it could be debated who are the takers and who are the makers, assuming that division (one among so many others) is useful in this case. After all, an American native-born citizen with deep ancestral roots in the country is not (often) considered less of an American if he happens to be a social parasite.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

  65. @Franz

    Irish Catholic leaders like John, Robert, and Edward Kennedy worked with Jewish political figures like Emanuel Celler and Herbert Lehman and others in what Yang called a “coalition of the powerful and the powerless.”
     
    In military terms known as "envelopment."

    That was the nub of it. The working class was really annoying the Upper Crust thanks to the nagging hang-on of the "family wage" economy that was one of the few worthwhile legacies of the FDR era. (Not that FDR had anything to do with it: That was Dorothy Day and the Catholic League. The strange fact is pro-immigration Catholics, however many there were, destroyed the Family Wage with immigration as surely as if it had never existed.)

    It's useful to rememher here that the job market was being crashed even as the '65 act was installed: Civil rights was forcing emplyers to hire people they'd never considered previously. And in a few years, "paycheck feminism" effectively doubled the number of job seekers for what work was available... and after the oil shocks of the 70s combined with the inflation the Vietnam War created, the market became far smaller during the period following.

    This is why people see conspiracies: If the rich wanted to destroy the earning power of the rest of us, a strategy like that would be perfect. A three-pronged attack to increase the number of workers, permanently create a climate for endless litigation that destroys national morale, which creates an incentive to offshore. And that incentive was taken by a majority of serious industires.

    A simple strategy of the venal rich joining the venal poor to destroy the earning power of everyone in the middle. And the poor of the whole world gave them an eternal supply of ammunition.

    Reason enough for the cash-strapped middle to hang Jia Lynn Yang in effigy nationwide.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @ben tillman

    That was the nub of it. The working class was really annoying the Upper Crust thanks to the nagging hang-on of the “family wage” economy that was one of the few worthwhile legacies of the FDR era.

    Utterly ridicuolous.

    • Replies: @Franz
    @ben tillman


    Utterly ridicuolous.
     
    Not at all.

    Between the Great Immigration Pause of the 1920s and the free-for-all open borders that started with Lyndon, there was an employee-led "train-and-retain" bias in hiring that kept wages up there where even normal people could afford a house (eg).

    A granddad of mine was a boilermaker for a small-town laundry, ca. 1962. He wanted to do better by his family, so he told the laundry owner he was taking his skills to a nearby shipyard. Right away the owner talked it over, crunched some numbers, and gramps got a raise equal to the move.

    Employers had no choice if they wanted good people during these years. They couldn't hire foreign. They could not pick and choose from an endless stream of overqualified/underemployed youngsters. They either matched what the market paid or had to do without. How much Dorothy Day had to do with it is a toss up, but the effect was real.

    In '65 the rules were changed. Civil Rights by itself would have caused pain. Feminism by itself would have caused pain. But adding an open border created hell on Earth for the wage-earner and at the moment nobody is standing up for them.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks

  66. RSDB says:
    @Redneck farmer
    @Franz

    As Monty Python said of Catholics, "You don't have to be a deep thinker/you don't have to have a big brain".

    Replies: @Hibernian, @TomSchmidt, @RSDB

    Those statements are not the same and should be separated by a conjunction rather than a slash.

    For instance, Monty Python skits, though evidently devised with a great deal of intelligence (a “big brain” metaphorically speaking), show little evidence of any kind of deep thought.

    Duhem thought this combination, which he called the “shallow and ample” mind, a national characteristic of the English, though he admitted exceptions, as in the case of Newton.

  67. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    "what is the difference between us, with our precious papers..."

    She is right about one thing: her "papers" are the only thing at all which gives her a claim to be "us". For her, being an American is merely a matter of having the correct paperwork. After all, you really do need the correct paperwork in good order so that when your grandparents arrive from Shenzou, they can collect Social Security!

    Though she doesn't seem to have asked herself: if there is no difference, then what is it exactly that makes HER papers so precious, whereas the papers of "those dying to come in" are so worthless they're dying to get rid of them and have ours instead?

    Replies: @Pericles, @Hypnotoad666, @ben tillman

    She is right about one thing: her “papers” are the only thing at all which gives her a claim to be “us”. For her, being an American is merely a matter of having the correct paperwork.

    Indeed.

  68. anon[155] • Disclaimer says:

    For better and for worse, these people are citizens of the USA:
    People born to legal American citizens
    People legally adopted by legal American citizens
    People who legally came here and were legally naturalized

    You have to accept all these people as your fellow citizens. You can’t go down the rabbit hole of defining citizens by drops of English blood or colonial ancestory. I can pass that test, since I have multiple ancestors who came from England in the 17th century, but few of you can.

    These people are not citizens of the USA:
    Illegal immigrants
    People born here to illegal immigrants
    Resident aliens with work or student visas

    We can and should deport all these people

    These people can have their citizenship revoked, or be persuaded to renounce their citizenship:
    Criminals
    People with dual citizenship

    We should deport these people as well.

    If we deport those who need to be deported, based on principled definitions of citizenship, we will coincidentally solve our ethnic mix problems.

  69. The outcome is enslaving of most Whites.

    Whites are the natural slave material of humanity. Muslims knew this when they built al Andulus and Bhagdad on White slaves sold by the Vikings.

    We can’t even think to resist. So we will be slaves.

  70. @Anon
    @Buzz Mohawk

    After a lifetime of observation, I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible for nonwhites to fully assimilate into white societies. It's been 400 years and blacks still have not fully assimilated, they remain distinct culturally, socially, economically.

    The only way for an immigrant to assimilate is if he/she arrives at a young age(no older than 18), alone, speaks fluent English, has high enough IQ to gain a STEM degree in a college in the US, gains citizenship/PR status on their own before intermarrying with a white native. If they marry someone back home, then they need to go back. The immigrant also must have limited contact with the family back home, rarely visits, and does not help anyone in the family immigrate to the US. The children who are 1/2 white will then become a lot more assimilated, and if they also intermarry with whites, then their 3/4 white children will have become wholly absorbed and assimilated.

    But chain migration, technology and air travels have made it much easier for immigrants today to keep in touch with their families back home, which makes assimilation near impossible. Which is why we need to end all immigration.

    And since Jia Lynn Yang was kind enough to inform us there is no difference between immigrants and natives, it must mean there is no difference between America and their native countries, which means there's really no more reason to immigrate.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Ancient Briton

    The only way for an immigrant to assimilate is if he/she arrives at a young age(no older than 18), alone, speaks fluent English, has high enough IQ to gain a STEM degree in a college in the US, gains citizenship/PR status on their own before intermarrying with a white native.

    The age is off by a few years, but other than that you just described my wife.

  71. “One Mighty and Irresistible Tide”? That’s not true. We can change our laws and policies at any time to drastically cut new immigration. The pro-immigration lobby believes — and wants everyone to believe — that high levels of immigration are both desirable and inevitable. Baloney.

    People need to realize how more and more people in America will ruin the country. There has to be an end to endless growth; it is not sustainable. We don’t have the money, housing or energy resources to provide the American way of life to everyone who wants to come here.

    The Jeff Gibbs-Michael Moore documentary Planet of the Humans says that overpopulation and overconsumption is ruining our environment. It is available for free on YouTube until the end of June. I highly recommend it. It is interesting in itself and also because it says so many “forbidden” truths. It’s had over 8 million views. I hope it will wake people up.

    • Replies: @Charon
    @notsaying

    Recommend it wherever you think there are people open to persuasion.

  72. ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

    I agree with this. “American” by the conventional, modern, legal definition is a meaningless category. It means no more than “I have a driver’s license” or “I live on Elm Street” would mean.

    The point though is to start getting people to recognize the distinction between “Paper Americans” and “Posterity Americans,” and that being the former does not make one the latter.

  73. @anonymous
    @James Speaks


    Palestinians who have lived there for thousands of years
     
    Definitely, thousands. Even Heroditus wrote of the good people of Palestine who worshipped Allah and spoke Arabic.

    Those who claim that the Arab language and Islam were spread by invading settlers from the Arabian peninsula are just engaging in Zionist revisionist history.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    The residents of Palestine worshipped whatever their Hittite or Egyptian masters worshipped and they spoke, among others, Syriac and Aramaic.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @James Speaks

    Agreed. And now they speak a totally different language, Arabic, and 98% of them are Sunni Muslims, a totally different religion. There was clearly an invasion and a large-scale population replacement from the seventh to twelfth centuries, so they haven't been there for "thousands of years" as was originally claimed in this thread.

    Replies: @Menschmaschine

  74. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Charon

    There will, and they'll be a lot tougher and meaner than we are.

    Replies: @Charon

    Mud huts in Lapland or Tasmania.

  75. @notsaying
    "One Mighty and Irresistible Tide"? That's not true. We can change our laws and policies at any time to drastically cut new immigration. The pro-immigration lobby believes -- and wants everyone to believe -- that high levels of immigration are both desirable and inevitable. Baloney.

    People need to realize how more and more people in America will ruin the country. There has to be an end to endless growth; it is not sustainable. We don't have the money, housing or energy resources to provide the American way of life to everyone who wants to come here.

    The Jeff Gibbs-Michael Moore documentary Planet of the Humans says that overpopulation and overconsumption is ruining our environment. It is available for free on YouTube until the end of June. I highly recommend it. It is interesting in itself and also because it says so many "forbidden" truths. It's had over 8 million views. I hope it will wake people up.

    Replies: @Charon

    Recommend it wherever you think there are people open to persuasion.

    • Agree: notsaying
  76. I am not sure what all those immigrants are going to do here post Covid economic disaster… I guess lower wages even farther for blue collar citizens.

  77. @ben tillman
    @Franz


    That was the nub of it. The working class was really annoying the Upper Crust thanks to the nagging hang-on of the “family wage” economy that was one of the few worthwhile legacies of the FDR era.
     
    Utterly ridicuolous.

    Replies: @Franz

    Utterly ridicuolous.

    Not at all.

    Between the Great Immigration Pause of the 1920s and the free-for-all open borders that started with Lyndon, there was an employee-led “train-and-retain” bias in hiring that kept wages up there where even normal people could afford a house (eg).

    A granddad of mine was a boilermaker for a small-town laundry, ca. 1962. He wanted to do better by his family, so he told the laundry owner he was taking his skills to a nearby shipyard. Right away the owner talked it over, crunched some numbers, and gramps got a raise equal to the move.

    Employers had no choice if they wanted good people during these years. They couldn’t hire foreign. They could not pick and choose from an endless stream of overqualified/underemployed youngsters. They either matched what the market paid or had to do without. How much Dorothy Day had to do with it is a toss up, but the effect was real.

    In ’65 the rules were changed. Civil Rights by itself would have caused pain. Feminism by itself would have caused pain. But adding an open border created hell on Earth for the wage-earner and at the moment nobody is standing up for them.

    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    @Franz

    "But adding an open border created hell on Earth for the wage-earner and at the moment nobody is standing up for them."

    Yup. The Democrats are all in for immigration, legal or not. Meanwhile, Trump promised massive deportations beginning "the first day" and has yet to deliver. So far, he's not being held to account for breaking that promise, even thought Covid19 would provide perfect cover even against the most strident phony "racist" claims (by Democrats and Neo-Cons alike).

  78. Which is why the U.S. accomplished nothing in the years after 1924.

    We had a Great Depression worse than that pretty much everywhere else in the world. We’re #1! We’re #1!

  79. @anon
    America is an economy masquerading as a nation. Has been true, is true and likely will be true. Past gave us slavery, present immigration and future brings what we know not. Covid seems to hint early vapors of failed state.

    Replies: @Forbes

    To my great disappointment, I’ve come to the conclusion that the United States is a place on a map with an economy, and nothing more. America is an idea that is no longer operative.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @Forbes

    America is part economic zone, but empire.

    There is no longer an "American people," but an American population with nothing in common except the common desire to acquire a lot of money to get a lot of stuff.

  80. @Skyler_the_Weird
    If there's no difference why complain when Karen writes a Mexican Cookbook?

    Replies: @Forbes

    I wonder, is it my imagination that keeps conjuring up complaints of racial/ethnic appropriation lodged by the identitarian PC/SJW brigades??

    Voices in my head?

  81. @Bugg
    @VinnyVette

    My in laws got in from Northern Ireland in the early 1960s. Of course, you had to be sponsored and work. There was no showing up with 4 kids and no means to support yourself. And in my father in law's case, went from one day being in the Irish Army to being in the US Army. For a time, having been a barkeeper's son, he managed the NATO Officer's Club in Paris(was bunkmates with Steve Lawrence). There has been a fundamental shift from demanding immigrants stand on their own feet and contribute to an expectation the US taxpayer is going to pay for people who showed up yesterday. Would readily grant there are a lot of Mexicans who come here and work their asses off. Nobody would have a problem being here but for the fact they cut the wages of Americans. And there are too many immigrants who don't want to work at all.

    Come to grasp Russians are mostly pretty good after a generation(less black on black suit combos).Was disconcerting to go to my son's hockey practice and hear blonde-haired boys talk to their teammates in unaccented English and then on a dime start talking Russian to mommy and daddy. Biggest issue appears to be they think every one of their kids is on his or her way to being Alex Ovechkin or Maria Sharapova. Still jarring to bike the Coney Island boardwalk and hear nothing but Russian spoken.

    However, can anyone can explain why post 9/11 there are suddenly Arabs and Muslims everywhere. Makes no sense. These people do not want to be Americans. Hope the Bushes and their neocon pals all burn in hell forever. They are not "yearning to breathe free", they hate us. WHY? At a loss why David Frum is not deported and William Kristol is allowed an internet connection.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The CivNat is strong in this one.

    Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not. Stop believing the indoctrination. I’m sure that you’re aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The “hard-working” Mexican’s kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican. That’s fine. I don’t hate Mexicans. I just don’t want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico.

    Grow up.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    The CivNat is strong in this one.

    Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not. Stop believing the indoctrination. I’m sure that you’re aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The “hard-working” Mexican’s kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican. That’s fine. I don’t hate Mexicans. I just don’t want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico.
     
    This.

    Exactly.

    Mestizos and indios are unsightly and unsanitary, but I wish them no ill. I just don't want to be around them all the time. I don't want to deal with their shit, to put it bluntly, literally and figuratively. I don't want their vote to count in how I am to be governed. If I wanted that, I'd learn Spanish, marry a white or light mestiza Mexicana, father a child by her, and apply for Mexican citizenship. I know guys who did just that. They being of white IQ have relatively decent jobs down there and like it. I would not.

    In better days, white Americans who visited Mexico and behaved properly had a good time and came back. Wealthy Mexicans, even what there was of middle class Mexicans, came up here for shopping, medical care, etc., and went back. I met several who were delightful people. But Americans were Americans and Mexicans were Mexicans.
    , @Corvinus
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    "Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not."

    Including your own ancestors?

    "I just don’t want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico."

    Child, it's OUR nation.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

  82. @ben tillman

    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”
     
    Obviously, it's the difference between makers and takers.

    Replies: @gabriel alberton

    Given the unknown pervasiveness of illegal immigrant labor and the fact illegal immigrants are ineligible for many benefits in the US, it could be debated who are the takers and who are the makers, assuming that division (one among so many others) is useful in this case. After all, an American native-born citizen with deep ancestral roots in the country is not (often) considered less of an American if he happens to be a social parasite.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    No, it's pretty straightforward illegal immigrants are takers. They don't remotely make enough to actually pay for their medical care, their families medical care, and the education of their kids.

    The illegal immigrant ended up better off, their employer got richer, and I end up paying dearly. And then there are those who dare say I owe them. As if their presence here is a favor they bestow on us Americans.

    Replies: @gabriel alberton

  83. @Stealth
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I think third worlders see white countries as a sort of non-renewable natural resource. In the same way we burn oil as fast as we can, knowing that when it's gone there will be nothing to replace it, people from the third world know that once they've dominated Europe, the US, Australia, etc, the party will be over. They're just trying to get their piece of it while it lasts.

    Speaking of fossil fuels, I wonder if white countries - presuming there are any left - will look as attractive to third worlders once all the easy energy that fuels us our lifestyle has been expended.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    I think third worlders see white countries as a sort of non-renewable natural resource. In the same way we burn oil as fast as we can, knowing that when it’s gone there will be nothing to replace it, people from the third world know that once they’ve dominated Europe, the US, Australia, etc, the party will be over.

    That’s certainly how it is – it’s only the fact that they have white majorities that makes white countries so desirable. Whether the immigrants see it that way, I don’t know. Our countries will be good for another generation or two even with unrestricted immigration, and the non-whites probably don’t look beyond that horizon.

  84. @anon
    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG0mm4-7TgU

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Love me some Red Dawn, but they’re wrong. It’s not because we live here and they don’t. It’s because they’re another tribe.

    This land isn’t ours by divine right. It’s ours because we conquered it and were willing to keep others out.

  85. @Caledonian
    @Hibernian

    Your point being?

    Replies: @Hibernian

    He was replying to a post about the Kennedys; it was a general strike at us Catholics, to be sure, but using the Kennedys as an example. I was in the mood to counter; in a better mood I would have just ignored it. I think you know this without my telling you. And I’m fully aware that Haig, Buckley, etc., are not plaster saints; almost no one is.

  86. Citizenism isn’t catching on because younger white people see white nationalism as the only solution for the West. Citizenism has no emotional resonance with anyone. Younger white Americans feel little attachment to America as a state and increasingly, little attachment to America as a culture. We know that we don’t have much in common with people of other races, even seemingly assimilated ones. How? Because we grew up with them. We were even friends with them.

    The idea that we are supposed to find common ground with the descendants of the Mexicans and Indians that the elites brought to replace us is absurd. There can be no common ground. This is just white man’s burden thinking updated. Expect to see things developing in the opposite direction as citizenism: Minorities increasingly anti-assimilation and younger whites withdrawing from mainstream America into white-identity oriented spaces.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @ATBOTL

    I will like and respect non-Whites as individuals, but feel no kinship with them. They feel the same about me and all other Whites. For the most part, they regard the US as, at best, an ATM machine, and, at worst, territory for conquest.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @anon
    @ATBOTL

    Then how do you explain the modern American religion; watching ballgames? (Whites spending huge amount of time and money to watch blacks playing ball and considering that as their real meaning/purpose in life)

    , @Anonymous
    @ATBOTL


    Minorities increasingly anti-assimilation and younger whites withdrawing from mainstream America into white-identity oriented spaces.
     
    You've called it. I've seen that for years, and now see nothing but that.
  87. @Forbes
    @anon

    To my great disappointment, I've come to the conclusion that the United States is a place on a map with an economy, and nothing more. America is an idea that is no longer operative.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    America is part economic zone, but empire.

    There is no longer an “American people,” but an American population with nothing in common except the common desire to acquire a lot of money to get a lot of stuff.

  88. @ATBOTL
    Citizenism isn't catching on because younger white people see white nationalism as the only solution for the West. Citizenism has no emotional resonance with anyone. Younger white Americans feel little attachment to America as a state and increasingly, little attachment to America as a culture. We know that we don't have much in common with people of other races, even seemingly assimilated ones. How? Because we grew up with them. We were even friends with them.

    The idea that we are supposed to find common ground with the descendants of the Mexicans and Indians that the elites brought to replace us is absurd. There can be no common ground. This is just white man's burden thinking updated. Expect to see things developing in the opposite direction as citizenism: Minorities increasingly anti-assimilation and younger whites withdrawing from mainstream America into white-identity oriented spaces.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @anon, @Anonymous

    I will like and respect non-Whites as individuals, but feel no kinship with them. They feel the same about me and all other Whites. For the most part, they regard the US as, at best, an ATM machine, and, at worst, territory for conquest.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel


    For the most part, they regard the US as, at best, an ATM machine, and, at worst, territory for conquest.
     
    More like "always" than "at worst". Remember the "Great American Boycott" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Boycott) demonstration (show of force) of 2006 when all the flags carried the first day were Mexican flags? People noticed, so next day, everybody showed up with an American flag, but it was a bit late.


    The old Greek polis (small city that controlled its own hinterland, plural: poleis) were at one time scattered throughout the Mediterranean, and after Alexander the Great, scattered across much of Asia. The Mediterranean poleis were primarily Greek (other groups preferred non-polis organization), but had very many different political systems. Aristotle used the history of the Mediterranean poleis, which he treated as political experiments, to draw general conclusions about politics.

    And he found out quite a few things of interest to us:
    * Tyrants attempt to introduce ethnic diversity, as it reduces the chance of successful rebellion (which suggests that the American Jewish establishment has very politically powerful non-Jewish allies, perhaps the political organizations that run large US cities).
    * Those poleis that were founded by two groups tended to have civil wars (the US was founded by several groups, and now has about 9 different ethnic regions). Any group could win the war, original settlers, new group, another polis (taking over the original polis after being invited into the fight).

    The article is well worth reading, and its conclusion is:

    Aristotle’s grim observations on diversity are worth repeating: unassimilable immigration can only lead to conflict, conflict which can only end through separation, separation which can only occur through the expulsion either of the invaders or the natives from their ancestral lands.
     
    (https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/02/24/aristotle-on-immigration-diversity-and-democracy/)

    Given this conclusion, the US Civil Rights legislation and court cases (Bake in particular) can only be thought of as an effort to re-write the US Constitution so as to expel non-POC inhabitants, although it was sold to the non-POC inhabitants as an effort to integrate the entire American population -- such an integration having never been recorded in the Mediterranean polis and regarded as impossible by Aristotle. (See: Christopher Caldwell, _The Age of Entitlement: America Since the Sixties_, Simon & Schuster; 2020).

    There is a counterexample -- sort of -- the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was as successful in ethnic assimilation as the US population thought it was in 1950. However -- The Roman Empire was and remained a military dictatorship that was as insistent on central control as any Chinese Empire. The Roman Empire succeeded in assimilation by co-opting the local elites into Roman life down to language, architecture, dress, political structure, with rather bloody ends for those who refused to be co-opted. It was somewhat like the Soviet method of making the New Soviet Man -- take out everybody who won't conform -- or like the US method of reducing violent crime -- three strikes and you're in prison until age 30 or so. The difference is that the Romans kept the effort up for several Centuries, eventually letting the Roman aristocracy be replaced by a Romanized provincial aristocracy. (See: Kyle Harper, _The Fate of Rome_, Princeton University Press, 2017; for a heartbreaking story of how Rome survived a climate change (Roman Climate Optimum (200 BC to AD 150) to the Late Antique Little Ice Age (450-700) and two major waves of plague before being reduced to a rump state shortly after the third wave. )

    So -- simple answers, but none that sounds like it would be fun living through. Well, when Daddy takes the T-Bird away, we don't get a choice:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHuIEl2-lzs

    and maybe real life will have an outcome as rewarding as the song. Eventually.


    And he found out quite a few things of interest to us:
    * Tyrants attempt to introduce ethnic diversity, as it reduces the chance of successful rebellion (which suggests that the American Jewish establishment has very politically powerful non-Jewish allies, perhaps the political organizations that run large US cities).
    * Those poleis that were founded by two groups tended to have civil wars (the US was founded by several groups, and now has about 9 different ethnic regions). Any group could win the war, original settlers, new group, another polis (taking over the original polis after being invited into the fight).

    The article is well worth reading, and its conclusion is:

    Aristotle’s grim observations on diversity are worth repeating: unassimilable immigration can only lead to conflict, conflict which can only end through separation, separation which can only occur through the expulsion either of the invaders or the natives from their ancestral lands.
     
    (https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/02/24/aristotle-on-immigration-diversity-and-democracy/)

    Given this conclusion, the US Civil Rights legislation and court cases (Bake in particular) can only be thought of as an effort to re-write the US Constitution so as to expel non-POC inhabitants, although it was sold to the non-POC inhabitants as an effort to integrate the entire American population -- such an integration having never been recorded in the Mediterranean polis and regarded as impossible by Aristotle. (See: Christopher Caldwell, _The Age of Entitlement: America Since the Sixties_, Simon & Schuster; 2020).

    There is a counterexample -- sort of -- the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was as successful in ethnic assimilation as the US population thought it was in 1950. However -- The Roman Empire was and remained a military dictatorship that was as insistent on central control as any Chinese Empire. The Roman Empire succeeded in assimilation by co-opting the local elites into Roman life down to language, architecture, dress, political structure, with rather bloody ends for those who refused to be co-opted. It was somewhat like the Soviet method of making the New Soviet Man -- take out everybody who won't conform -- or like the US method of reducing violent crime -- three strikes and you're in prison until age 30 or so. The difference is that the Romans kept the effort up for several Centuries, eventually letting the Roman aristocracy be replaced by a Romanized provincial aristocracy. (See: Kyle Harper, _The Fate of Rome_, Princeton University Press, 2017; for a heartbreaking story of how Rome survived a climate change (Roman Climate Optimum (200 BC to AD 150) to the Late Antique Little Ice Age (450-700) and two major waves of plague before being reduced to a rump state shortly after the third wave. )

    So -- simple answers, but none that sounds like it would be fun living through. Well, when Daddy takes the T-Bird away, we don't get a choice:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHuIEl2-lzs

    and maybe real life will have an outcome as rewarding as the song. Eventually.
  89. @ATBOTL
    Citizenism isn't catching on because younger white people see white nationalism as the only solution for the West. Citizenism has no emotional resonance with anyone. Younger white Americans feel little attachment to America as a state and increasingly, little attachment to America as a culture. We know that we don't have much in common with people of other races, even seemingly assimilated ones. How? Because we grew up with them. We were even friends with them.

    The idea that we are supposed to find common ground with the descendants of the Mexicans and Indians that the elites brought to replace us is absurd. There can be no common ground. This is just white man's burden thinking updated. Expect to see things developing in the opposite direction as citizenism: Minorities increasingly anti-assimilation and younger whites withdrawing from mainstream America into white-identity oriented spaces.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @anon, @Anonymous

    Then how do you explain the modern American religion; watching ballgames? (Whites spending huge amount of time and money to watch blacks playing ball and considering that as their real meaning/purpose in life)

  90. @Hapalong Cassidy
    “Citizenism” makes me think of the society in “Starship Troopers” where only those that served in the the military were entitled to become citizens.

    Replies: @Alfa158

    You could still become a citizen even if you weren’t fit for military duty. They idea is you are performing service and
    had to be willing to sacrifice your own interests for the Nation. If nothing else you could volunteer as a subject for medical testing. Or as Heinlein put it if you were deaf and blind you would be in Antarctica counting hairs on the back of a caterpillar.

  91. @gabriel alberton
    @ben tillman

    Given the unknown pervasiveness of illegal immigrant labor and the fact illegal immigrants are ineligible for many benefits in the US, it could be debated who are the takers and who are the makers, assuming that division (one among so many others) is useful in this case. After all, an American native-born citizen with deep ancestral roots in the country is not (often) considered less of an American if he happens to be a social parasite.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    No, it’s pretty straightforward illegal immigrants are takers. They don’t remotely make enough to actually pay for their medical care, their families medical care, and the education of their kids.

    The illegal immigrant ended up better off, their employer got richer, and I end up paying dearly. And then there are those who dare say I owe them. As if their presence here is a favor they bestow on us Americans.

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    No, it’s pretty straightforward illegal immigrants are takers. They don’t remotely make enough to actually pay for their medical care, their families medical care, and the education of their kids.
     
    If it is straightforward, do you have sources that back up that assertion? Also, if making money is what matters, than illegal immigrants gotta be takers, as we all know they're paid pocket lint for their work (don't we?), but then doesn't it also mean Chinese and Indians and Jews are more makers than white gentiles in the US, as the former earn more?

    The illegal immigrant ended up better off, their employer got richer, and I end up paying dearly.
     
    Is it possible the employer got rich(er) because he is paying the illegal immigrant less than what their work is worth? It has been suggested they more often work in dangerous jobs than American-born workers. (Note this might mean comparing a Rodriguez born in Guatemala with a Gonzalez born in California)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831347/

    Of course, it is very much debatable if a job should pay more solely because it's riskier than others. I have my objections. I think writing on online forums should pay more. But that's just me...

    I will remark how almost always, virtually inevitably, the aggrieved party says they are obviously the victim. Both liberal spinsters and conservative old farts and libertarian independents alike do that if given the opportunity. It sure seems to never fail. That's what you're doing, just so there's no confusion of what I mean.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @Nicholas Stix

  92. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Bugg

    The CivNat is strong in this one.

    Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not. Stop believing the indoctrination. I'm sure that you're aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The "hard-working" Mexican's kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican. That's fine. I don't hate Mexicans. I just don't want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico.

    Grow up.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Corvinus

    The CivNat is strong in this one.

    Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not. Stop believing the indoctrination. I’m sure that you’re aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The “hard-working” Mexican’s kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican. That’s fine. I don’t hate Mexicans. I just don’t want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico.

    This.

    Exactly.

    Mestizos and indios are unsightly and unsanitary, but I wish them no ill. I just don’t want to be around them all the time. I don’t want to deal with their shit, to put it bluntly, literally and figuratively. I don’t want their vote to count in how I am to be governed. If I wanted that, I’d learn Spanish, marry a white or light mestiza Mexicana, father a child by her, and apply for Mexican citizenship. I know guys who did just that. They being of white IQ have relatively decent jobs down there and like it. I would not.

    In better days, white Americans who visited Mexico and behaved properly had a good time and came back. Wealthy Mexicans, even what there was of middle class Mexicans, came up here for shopping, medical care, etc., and went back. I met several who were delightful people. But Americans were Americans and Mexicans were Mexicans.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  93. “‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” ”

    The response to this misses Mr. John Millius’s point. Nor is it mere tribalism. It’s an understanding that this tribe, the tribe of US citizens he such high regard for human life, that we don’t kill unarmed citizens (a metaphor for a host of differences) —

    otherwise there’s no point – Mr. Milius is often misunderstood. He deeply values the US for what the US stands for or desires to stand for – not just location, location, location or tribe, tribe, tribe . . .

    And one of those concepts is the little guy taking on the bullies — it’s the mythos of the founding, band of colonials against the might of the British Empire – the alue of the independent individual against the state

  94. “Concept of “Citizenism” Has Not Exactly Caught on”

    Well, it certainly has the attention of a number of people.

    https://openborders.info/citizenism

    Buzz Mohawk–“Americans understood this in 1924, and they forgot it in 1965.”

    Actually, the decade is the 1840’s and 1850’s when Americans forgot. Let us look at this “great replacement” in the United States from the perspective of WASP’s, the true Heritage Americans. They built America. How can we argue with that historical reality?

    Therefore it is tragic that WASP redoubts were subsequently overrun by foul-mouthed, parasitic louts from Eastern and Southern Europe in the late 1800 and early 1900’s. The 1924 Quota Act was a long-waited panacea to reign in such an odious creature, a wonderful piece of legislation that would make Hans F.K. Gunther proud. See, the simple fact of the matter, from the WASP point of view, is that the Eastern/Southern Europeans are infected with the “chosenite” virus. Stellar at patronizing, but not so much at moral consistency and applying to themselves the standards they demand of others.

    Face it, the Poles were especially notorious for being dirty, disease-ridden papists. The Italians bred like rabbits, lived in cramped quarters, and would not even bat an eyelash to bash in someone’s skull for a plug nickel. Yet, here we are with millions of them in the United States currently claiming they were historically embraced by their WASP counterparts because they were “white” and “European”, while simultaneously denying opportunities that their forefathers and foremothers received. Nostalgia has a funny way of distorting what truly went on in the past. WASPs were absolutely correct in connecting these particular groups with their own unique “proboscis” instinct. It is an absolute shame that the aforementioned legislation unfortunately failed miserably in its purpose and intention.

    Again, from the WASP angle, comedian Owen Benjamin noted in one of his recent, heroic Internet videos that the 1828 Websters Dictionary defined what is Heritage American—A native of America; originally applied to the aboriginals, or copper-colored races, found here by the Europeans; but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America.

    Franz–The strange fact is pro-immigration Catholics, however many there were, destroyed the Family Wage with immigration as surely as if it had never existed.

    You mean the Irish and Germans who came in the 1840’s and 1850’s, along with their Polish and Italian brethren in the early 1900’s? They must all go back.

    Mr. McKenna—“Here’s a provocation: can you really say we haven’t reached that day already?”

    Americans enslaved by Jews? No.

    BB753–Citizenism will never catch on in a country with endless immigration from all over the world.

    That’s who we are.

    The Germ Theory Of Disease–She is right about one thing: her “papers” are the only thing at all which gives her a claim to be “us”. For her, being an American is merely a matter of having the correct paperwork.

    Are you able to directly trace your ancestors on both sides to the Thirteen Colonies? If not, YOU and they also made a similar claim. You’re going to have to go back.

    Alt Right guru Vox Day assuredly champions the WASP cause–Europeans, most notably the **Germans, the Irish, the Italians, and the Polish**, lack the ability to comprehend and put into practice Anglo-Saxon ideals. Yet, those same people, in particular Alt Right leaders, whose ancestors had been deemed “unfit” for American inclusion by nativists in the 1850’s and 1890’s, today claim to possess the inherent qualities required to perpetuate Western Civilization. Nativists held those groups** in contempt for “alien ways of life”, yet by the power of magic dirt, they** transformed themselves into one of the natives.

    Of course, it needs to be mentioned here, from the WASP lens, that Eastern and Southern Europeans do not think like them. The mind of those groups individually and collectively is numbingly simplistic in brain structure. They lack the distinct ability to understand individual justice, or even have a conscience for that matter. Again, we were told by nativists long ago, for example, the Italians especially are notorious for having a completely different neurological reality, different even in matters of soul. But what do they know, right?

    In the end, the Constitution was meant secure the rights of Englishmen. These principles only apply to this particular group of people, since the non-English–meaning white Europeans–lack the intellectual capacity to properly comprehend its ideals. So those American citizens born in Portugal or in Poland or in Serbia or in Bulgaria are other than American. They pushed out the WASPs while eagerly putting their out snout in the trough that they simply did not built.

    Hypnotoad666–Exactly. White Americans were just coincidentally in the club everyone wanted to join.

    The Alt Right assumes that the creation of the United States was undeniably monolithic. “Europeans” came to North America, conquered and settled. But they were other than united in the beginning by common ideologies. Europeans had their own “redoubts”, ethnically and/or culturally, in the Thirteen States. Remember, the Germans, the Irish, the Italians, the Slavs, the Poles–ALL had been considered at various points in time of unworthy of assimilation and citizenship. HOWEVER, they gradually blended into a new group–Americans–as they immersed themselves into building their political and economic institutions. And, accordingly, the Founding Fathers left open the door for future generations of Americans to weave other groups of people into the American fabric–European and non-European.

    The notion of “whites” or “European-whites” being bound together came about as a result of Social Darwinism and imperialism in the late 1800’s–the distinction that separated “us” from “them”. In this manner, the “lowest-rung” whites were deemed superior in social standing than their darkie counterparts, while at the same time knew full well their “pecking order” within the European hierarchy. The following source offers extensive evidence to prove this point.

    “Rob McX–Countries are defined by race, language, religion and their citizens’ having a shared history. Normal people want their countries to remain as they are and to have a continuous bloodline, a genetic thread linking the past and the future.”

    And that’s what we have here in the States.

  95. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Bugg

    The CivNat is strong in this one.

    Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not. Stop believing the indoctrination. I'm sure that you're aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The "hard-working" Mexican's kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican. That's fine. I don't hate Mexicans. I just don't want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico.

    Grow up.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Corvinus

    “Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not.”

    Including your own ancestors?

    “I just don’t want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico.”

    Child, it’s OUR nation.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Corvinus

    Actually, yes, the American Indians did think this way -- that my hardworking ancestors were invaders. And they were of course right, as all my modern American history books tell me so.

    Was there a point to your asinine comment, or will we circle back to your ignorance of American history?

  96. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    No, it's pretty straightforward illegal immigrants are takers. They don't remotely make enough to actually pay for their medical care, their families medical care, and the education of their kids.

    The illegal immigrant ended up better off, their employer got richer, and I end up paying dearly. And then there are those who dare say I owe them. As if their presence here is a favor they bestow on us Americans.

    Replies: @gabriel alberton

    No, it’s pretty straightforward illegal immigrants are takers. They don’t remotely make enough to actually pay for their medical care, their families medical care, and the education of their kids.

    If it is straightforward, do you have sources that back up that assertion? Also, if making money is what matters, than illegal immigrants gotta be takers, as we all know they’re paid pocket lint for their work (don’t we?), but then doesn’t it also mean Chinese and Indians and Jews are more makers than white gentiles in the US, as the former earn more?

    The illegal immigrant ended up better off, their employer got richer, and I end up paying dearly.

    Is it possible the employer got rich(er) because he is paying the illegal immigrant less than what their work is worth? It has been suggested they more often work in dangerous jobs than American-born workers. (Note this might mean comparing a Rodriguez born in Guatemala with a Gonzalez born in California)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831347/

    Of course, it is very much debatable if a job should pay more solely because it’s riskier than others. I have my objections. I think writing on online forums should pay more. But that’s just me…

    I will remark how almost always, virtually inevitably, the aggrieved party says they are obviously the victim. Both liberal spinsters and conservative old farts and libertarian independents alike do that if given the opportunity. It sure seems to never fail. That’s what you’re doing, just so there’s no confusion of what I mean.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    The small Chinese and Indian populations have a significant percentage that are not a random sample compared to the 200+ million non-Hispanic white population overwhelmingly born here. Was there a point to your silly comment? For just being born into a land the American white population is doing very well indeed -- much more impressive than the native populations of the Chinese and Indians.

    , @Nicholas Stix
    @gabriel alberton

    "If it is straightforward, do you have sources that back up that assertion?"

    You're kidding, right?

    If this were, oh, 1951, I might take you seriously. If you had any integrity, you'd be embarrassed to ask that question in the current year.

  97. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    “I just don’t want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico.”

    Child, it’s OUR nation.

    It was once and damn straight that’s what I want again. I want a white nation, you foolish crow.
    I don’t seek to tell Mexicans how to live-in Mexico. I don’t even presume to tell them WHERE to live, except-not here.

  98. anonymous[190] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks
    @anonymous

    The residents of Palestine worshipped whatever their Hittite or Egyptian masters worshipped and they spoke, among others, Syriac and Aramaic.

    Replies: @anonymous

    Agreed. And now they speak a totally different language, Arabic, and 98% of them are Sunni Muslims, a totally different religion. There was clearly an invasion and a large-scale population replacement from the seventh to twelfth centuries, so they haven’t been there for “thousands of years” as was originally claimed in this thread.

    • Replies: @Menschmaschine
    @anonymous

    Aramaic, Syriac and Arabic are all semitic languages, certainly not "totally different". Replacing a language does of course in no way imply that the population was replaced - an example from the same timeframe are the Hungarians which were compelled to adopt a completely new language, but with very little genetic traces of the invasion. And of course people change their religions, voluntary or by coercion.

    Anyway, it is clear where you are coming from - you are Jewish and want to construct an excuse for the ongoing ethnical cleansing of the Palestinians. It is however not quite clear how this would help you - why would the ethnical cleansing be any more justified even if the cleansees were only a thousand years living there instead of several thousands?

    Replies: @anonymous

  99. Of course — but again, I’m doing your work for you.

    https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-but-illegal-aliens-cost-the-u-s-plenty/

    And so on, and so forth.

    It isn’t complicated, unexpected, nor controversial. Do keep up now.

    Also — it doesn’t matter if the job is dangerous or not. There are plenty of illegals in the restaurant industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc.

    There is no intrinsic set wage for a job, a lot of it is negotiating leverage between employer and employee. Now let’s just add a bunch of unskilled illegal workers to the labor pool, undercut poor Americans, and then thank the illegals for doing the work of those American takers.

    That’s what you’re doing, just so there’s no confusion of what I mean.

    • Agree: notsaying
    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    Of course — but again, I’m doing your work for you.
     
    Which is how I like it.

    Your sources claim the total costs of illegal immigration are much larger than how much illegal immigrants contribute in taxes (federal, state, and local). Which is true. It says "Evidence shows that the tax payments made by illegal aliens fail to cover the costs of the many services they consume''. But what about the services they provide?

    Both those sources are silent on that. The report only mentions taxes. In the editorial, it is said that "In the modern American economy people with that level of education tend to make modest wages and as result pay relatively little in taxes, at the same time they tend to use a lot in public services, regardless of legal status.''. Emphasis mine. They pay little in taxes in good part because, your source says, they are not paid handsomely for what they do, but their work has value. It must have, as their employers wouldn't hire them to take siestas.

    So, yes, it is more complicated than what you wrote. Through their jobs, workers -- both illegal immigrants and American citizens -- create wealth, and contribute to the gross domestic product of the United States by producing goods and services. The illegal immigrants could pay no tax, at all -- 0 billion rather than 11.6 or 19 billion per year -- no income tax, no sales tax, no federal, state, or local taxes. As long as they work, and are paid less than the value their work creates, they'll contribute to the economy. Having illegal immigrants, however, is not free. They have a cost. Do they contribute more through their labor than what they cost to the economy (~135 billion in 2017, says the report)? What share of the 21 trillion dollar American GDP is due to them? More or less than 135 billion? I don't know. Do you? Feel absolutely free to do my work for me.


    Also — it doesn’t matter if the job is dangerous or not. There are plenty of illegals in the restaurant industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc. industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc.
     
    So you say. If that is the case, then a lot of work done in the United States is done by illegal immigrants, and so quite some wealth from services is generated by them. Note you are saying there are a lot of illegals doing those jobs, not me. Like I said, how pervasive illegal immigrant labor is in the US is, from all I've checked, unknown.

    There is no intrinsic set wage for a job, a lot of it is negotiating leverage between employer and employee. Now let’s just add a bunch of unskilled illegal workers to the labor pool, undercut poor Americans, and then thank the illegals for doing the work of those American takers.
     
    So it might be that they do those jobs in exchange for a fraction of the payment that an American-born citizen will. If that's the case, it is expected at least some employers will take note of that, and in negotiating leverage, hire the illegal immigrants over the American citizen. After all, one of the great things about the United States is that it is a free country and a free market. Those employers could well thank their illegal immigrant employees for cheaply providing their services, but I'm not sure they do.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @notsaying

  100. @Corvinus
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    "Immigrants from another tribe are invaders whether they want to work or not."

    Including your own ancestors?

    "I just don’t want them in my country turning it into Mexico and voting for the type of politicians that run Mexico."

    Child, it's OUR nation.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Actually, yes, the American Indians did think this way — that my hardworking ancestors were invaders. And they were of course right, as all my modern American history books tell me so.

    Was there a point to your asinine comment, or will we circle back to your ignorance of American history?

  101. @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    No, it’s pretty straightforward illegal immigrants are takers. They don’t remotely make enough to actually pay for their medical care, their families medical care, and the education of their kids.
     
    If it is straightforward, do you have sources that back up that assertion? Also, if making money is what matters, than illegal immigrants gotta be takers, as we all know they're paid pocket lint for their work (don't we?), but then doesn't it also mean Chinese and Indians and Jews are more makers than white gentiles in the US, as the former earn more?

    The illegal immigrant ended up better off, their employer got richer, and I end up paying dearly.
     
    Is it possible the employer got rich(er) because he is paying the illegal immigrant less than what their work is worth? It has been suggested they more often work in dangerous jobs than American-born workers. (Note this might mean comparing a Rodriguez born in Guatemala with a Gonzalez born in California)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831347/

    Of course, it is very much debatable if a job should pay more solely because it's riskier than others. I have my objections. I think writing on online forums should pay more. But that's just me...

    I will remark how almost always, virtually inevitably, the aggrieved party says they are obviously the victim. Both liberal spinsters and conservative old farts and libertarian independents alike do that if given the opportunity. It sure seems to never fail. That's what you're doing, just so there's no confusion of what I mean.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @Nicholas Stix

    The small Chinese and Indian populations have a significant percentage that are not a random sample compared to the 200+ million non-Hispanic white population overwhelmingly born here. Was there a point to your silly comment? For just being born into a land the American white population is doing very well indeed — much more impressive than the native populations of the Chinese and Indians.

  102. I’m sure that you’re aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The “hard-working” Mexican’s kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican.

    I’m not so sure you’re aware of it yourself. The average Mexican immigrant to the US is not just like the average Mexican, and so their children and grandchildren likely won’t be either. They might be smellier, taller, fatter, smarter, prettier, even gayer than the average Mexican, I don’t know, but I do know immigrants are unlikely to be “just like” the countrymen they leave behind. Not exactly a representative, randomly selected sample.

    I don’t want their vote to count in how I am to be governed.

    Since there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today, what do you propose? Do you actually think they can all be made to go back? That should suffice to show you could be more in the middle of a wet daydream than thinking straight, but if it doesn’t, what to do about the ones who intermarried and had kids who only slightly like tacos? Will only half or one quarter of them, such as one arm and one leg, be made to go back? What do you propose?

    Besides that, your white nation will evidently not be very democratic, as you get to decide who, in your country, gets to vote or not based on their ancestry, personal hygiene, and whether they are turned on by the smell of quesadillas. The Founders were no fans of democracy either, so you have history on your side! But how will the increasingly not-as-white Americans of today react to a explicitly undemocratic platform? Do you plan to disenfranchise everyone whose name ends in a vowel? Because, speaking strictly hypothetically, they might not be on board with all that stuff.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    Interesting. Are there "dozens of millions of Mexicans" in the United States? Exactly how many Mexicans are there here? And just so there is no confusion: you are stating these Mexicans have American 'papers', but are still Mexican in heart and soul?

    Because we Americans want truth on exactly how many nationalities should be allowed into our native land, and have the exact same legal and political rights and control as us, but retain allegiance to their own nation. That would certainly be good for us to debate.

    Replies: @gabriel alberton

    , @Anonymous
    @gabriel alberton


    Since there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today, what do you propose? Do you actually think they can all be made to go back? That should suffice to show you could be more in the middle of a wet daydream than thinking straight, but if it doesn’t, what to do about the ones who intermarried and had kids who only slightly like tacos? Will only half or one quarter of them, such as one arm and one leg, be made to go back? What do you propose?
     
    When you find yourself in a hole, the first step is to stop digging.

    In other words, whatever the past.....¡No más! Immigration stops now, for all but a trickle of highly selected people. Not even taking into account race, nationality, ethnicity, religion, etc, an immigration moratorium.

    Then we cut a deal with Mexico and the Central American countries that will give them a slice of some of the low end manufacturing we now give to China, and make it somewhat more attractive for these people to stay where they are supposed to, so they can feed a family of reasonable size and have as good a life as is feasible in those mixed race shitholes.....just kidding, those developing economies.

    Those who are thoroughly assimilated are probably here to stay, I'm a realist. There are still more Anglos here than you guys and I'm going to work for policies that benefit us. Some of them will benefit some of you too. Some of them you might not prefer. But if we keep our numbers up we are going to win. The problem is whites that are anti-white. Blacks, steezers, Jews, and everyone else are not the fundamental problem, the fundamental problem as always throughout history is whites because history is white. Nonwhites are just accessory players, all the real actors are white. We're the lead dogs and for everyone else the scenery never changes.

    Just sayin'.

    :-)

    Replies: @Anon

  103. @gabriel alberton

    I’m sure that you’re aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The “hard-working” Mexican’s kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican.
     
    I'm not so sure you're aware of it yourself. The average Mexican immigrant to the US is not just like the average Mexican, and so their children and grandchildren likely won't be either. They might be smellier, taller, fatter, smarter, prettier, even gayer than the average Mexican, I don't know, but I do know immigrants are unlikely to be "just like'' the countrymen they leave behind. Not exactly a representative, randomly selected sample.

    I don’t want their vote to count in how I am to be governed.
     
    Since there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today, what do you propose? Do you actually think they can all be made to go back? That should suffice to show you could be more in the middle of a wet daydream than thinking straight, but if it doesn't, what to do about the ones who intermarried and had kids who only slightly like tacos? Will only half or one quarter of them, such as one arm and one leg, be made to go back? What do you propose?

    Besides that, your white nation will evidently not be very democratic, as you get to decide who, in your country, gets to vote or not based on their ancestry, personal hygiene, and whether they are turned on by the smell of quesadillas. The Founders were no fans of democracy either, so you have history on your side! But how will the increasingly not-as-white Americans of today react to a explicitly undemocratic platform? Do you plan to disenfranchise everyone whose name ends in a vowel? Because, speaking strictly hypothetically, they might not be on board with all that stuff.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @Anonymous

    Interesting. Are there “dozens of millions of Mexicans” in the United States? Exactly how many Mexicans are there here? And just so there is no confusion: you are stating these Mexicans have American ‘papers’, but are still Mexican in heart and soul?

    Because we Americans want truth on exactly how many nationalities should be allowed into our native land, and have the exact same legal and political rights and control as us, but retain allegiance to their own nation. That would certainly be good for us to debate.

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    Interesting. Are there “dozens of millions of Mexicans” in the United States? Exactly how many Mexicans are there here? And just so there is no confusion: you are stating these Mexicans have American ‘papers’, but are still Mexican in heart and soul?
     
    Around 30 to 40 million people in the US say they're descended from Mexicanos. You can go check yourself. Possibly a few millions of those are illegal immigrants and their descendents, but how many I'm unsure. Do they consider themselves still Mexicans in heart and soul? I don't know either. But it seems quite a few do. I don't know about what you want for your country, but the anonymous commenter there was pretty clear he wants a white nation. That means those dozens of millions of tequila drinkers will necessarily have to go, unless they can turn into WASPs somehow. CRISPR?

    Because we Americans want truth on exactly how many nationalities should be allowed into our native land, and have the exact same legal and political rights and control as us, but retain allegiance to their own nation. That would certainly be good for us to debate.
     
    Very well, but how to know if an immigrant/naturalized citizen/descendent of either still retains allegiance to their original nation if he doesn't make it public (i.e. they keep it secret)? Spying on them could work. But I read Americans dislike that, or at least are supposed to. Civil liberties stuff. So what to do? Please do note I'm not American, so no way I'll provide or suggest any actual advice on how to run a country I'm not a citizen of, but conflict interests me.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

  104. – And, it will never happen – Citizenship/ Citizen of the World is dead; dead as roadkill. “Everyone” is very concerned about their second/3rd/4th homes…travel bans, quarantines! It’s a sh*tshow! Suddenly, belonging to the “nazi” party is not working for the rich. And, notice, they don’t give a sh*t about locals, employees (all furloughed or fired), nor illegals. In the end, humans only care about their immediate family.

  105. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Of course -- but again, I'm doing your work for you.

    https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-but-illegal-aliens-cost-the-u-s-plenty/

    And so on, and so forth.

    It isn't complicated, unexpected, nor controversial. Do keep up now.

    Also -- it doesn't matter if the job is dangerous or not. There are plenty of illegals in the restaurant industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc.

    There is no intrinsic set wage for a job, a lot of it is negotiating leverage between employer and employee. Now let's just add a bunch of unskilled illegal workers to the labor pool, undercut poor Americans, and then thank the illegals for doing the work of those American takers.

    That's what you're doing, just so there's no confusion of what I mean.

    Replies: @gabriel alberton

    Of course — but again, I’m doing your work for you.

    Which is how I like it.

    Your sources claim the total costs of illegal immigration are much larger than how much illegal immigrants contribute in taxes (federal, state, and local). Which is true. It says “Evidence shows that the tax payments made by illegal aliens fail to cover the costs of the many services they consume”. But what about the services they provide?

    Both those sources are silent on that. The report only mentions taxes. In the editorial, it is said that “In the modern American economy people with that level of education tend to make modest wages and as result pay relatively little in taxes, at the same time they tend to use a lot in public services, regardless of legal status.”. Emphasis mine. They pay little in taxes in good part because, your source says, they are not paid handsomely for what they do, but their work has value. It must have, as their employers wouldn’t hire them to take siestas.

    So, yes, it is more complicated than what you wrote. Through their jobs, workers — both illegal immigrants and American citizens — create wealth, and contribute to the gross domestic product of the United States by producing goods and services. The illegal immigrants could pay no tax, at all — 0 billion rather than 11.6 or 19 billion per year — no income tax, no sales tax, no federal, state, or local taxes. As long as they work, and are paid less than the value their work creates, they’ll contribute to the economy. Having illegal immigrants, however, is not free. They have a cost. Do they contribute more through their labor than what they cost to the economy (~135 billion in 2017, says the report)? What share of the 21 trillion dollar American GDP is due to them? More or less than 135 billion? I don’t know. Do you? Feel absolutely free to do my work for me.

    Also — it doesn’t matter if the job is dangerous or not. There are plenty of illegals in the restaurant industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc. industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc.

    So you say. If that is the case, then a lot of work done in the United States is done by illegal immigrants, and so quite some wealth from services is generated by them. Note you are saying there are a lot of illegals doing those jobs, not me. Like I said, how pervasive illegal immigrant labor is in the US is, from all I’ve checked, unknown.

    There is no intrinsic set wage for a job, a lot of it is negotiating leverage between employer and employee. Now let’s just add a bunch of unskilled illegal workers to the labor pool, undercut poor Americans, and then thank the illegals for doing the work of those American takers.

    So it might be that they do those jobs in exchange for a fraction of the payment that an American-born citizen will. If that’s the case, it is expected at least some employers will take note of that, and in negotiating leverage, hire the illegal immigrants over the American citizen. After all, one of the great things about the United States is that it is a free country and a free market. Those employers could well thank their illegal immigrant employees for cheaply providing their services, but I’m not sure they do.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    This long-winded answer has very little real content -- thank God I'm not paying you. I'm not a libertarian nor a free trader, but very much an American, so throwing phrases like 'free country' and especially 'free market' don't have magical neutralization effects on me. I actually can't do anything I desire in America, and neither should any employer. It's not a 'free country' in the sense anything goes, and certainly 'free market' was not part of my military oath. Since I already stated in my previous comment I know employers selfishly use illegal labor to increase their profits, what exactly is your point again? To imply they are correct to be selfish?

    , @notsaying
    @gabriel alberton

    Employers are not allowed to hire whoever they want in America. The only way they can legally hire immigrants is if the federal government allows them to.

    Like fools American workers have accepted the hiring of millions of immigrant workers we did not need. We allowed employers to hire both legal and illegal workers for the specific purpose of working them harder while paying them less than Americans. There is no arguing that fact.

    But we can change this acceptance to refusal. The citizen-owners of this country can insist that American workers be hired. The employers and the immigrants themselves have no rights in this case.
    Congress and the voters are in charge of immigration. The problem is that Congress and the voters don't use their power to eliminate unnecessary immigration.

  106. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    Interesting. Are there "dozens of millions of Mexicans" in the United States? Exactly how many Mexicans are there here? And just so there is no confusion: you are stating these Mexicans have American 'papers', but are still Mexican in heart and soul?

    Because we Americans want truth on exactly how many nationalities should be allowed into our native land, and have the exact same legal and political rights and control as us, but retain allegiance to their own nation. That would certainly be good for us to debate.

    Replies: @gabriel alberton

    Interesting. Are there “dozens of millions of Mexicans” in the United States? Exactly how many Mexicans are there here? And just so there is no confusion: you are stating these Mexicans have American ‘papers’, but are still Mexican in heart and soul?

    Around 30 to 40 million people in the US say they’re descended from Mexicanos. You can go check yourself. Possibly a few millions of those are illegal immigrants and their descendents, but how many I’m unsure. Do they consider themselves still Mexicans in heart and soul? I don’t know either. But it seems quite a few do. I don’t know about what you want for your country, but the anonymous commenter there was pretty clear he wants a white nation. That means those dozens of millions of tequila drinkers will necessarily have to go, unless they can turn into WASPs somehow. CRISPR?

    Because we Americans want truth on exactly how many nationalities should be allowed into our native land, and have the exact same legal and political rights and control as us, but retain allegiance to their own nation. That would certainly be good for us to debate.

    Very well, but how to know if an immigrant/naturalized citizen/descendent of either still retains allegiance to their original nation if he doesn’t make it public (i.e. they keep it secret)? Spying on them could work. But I read Americans dislike that, or at least are supposed to. Civil liberties stuff. So what to do? Please do note I’m not American, so no way I’ll provide or suggest any actual advice on how to run a country I’m not a citizen of, but conflict interests me.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    Oh come now dear Gabriel -- I provided citations for my assertions about the cost of illegal immigration in my native land. I need to see proof of your assertion many American paper holders consider themselves Mexican. Don't disappoint me.

    Replies: @gabriel alberton

  107. @anonymous
    @James Speaks

    Agreed. And now they speak a totally different language, Arabic, and 98% of them are Sunni Muslims, a totally different religion. There was clearly an invasion and a large-scale population replacement from the seventh to twelfth centuries, so they haven't been there for "thousands of years" as was originally claimed in this thread.

    Replies: @Menschmaschine

    Aramaic, Syriac and Arabic are all semitic languages, certainly not “totally different”. Replacing a language does of course in no way imply that the population was replaced – an example from the same timeframe are the Hungarians which were compelled to adopt a completely new language, but with very little genetic traces of the invasion. And of course people change their religions, voluntary or by coercion.

    Anyway, it is clear where you are coming from – you are Jewish and want to construct an excuse for the ongoing ethnical cleansing of the Palestinians. It is however not quite clear how this would help you – why would the ethnical cleansing be any more justified even if the cleansees were only a thousand years living there instead of several thousands?

    • Agree: James Speaks
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Menschmaschine

    The whole story of human history is invasion after invasion, displacement after displacement - there is nothing uniquely sacred or rooted about Palestinian Arabs. They haven't been there for "thousands of years" as the initial, stupid, hyperbolic comment claimed, and as you now concede.

    They conquered the area and largely eliminated the previous inhabitants between 1000 and 500 years ago (with another wave coming from Egypt and Jordan 100 years ago), and then wouldn't you know it in turn some of them were driven from part of it 80 years ago (with a big assist from foolishly not accepting the UN partition plan). Such is life as a human society. Much larger numbers of Sudaten, Panonian, and Baltic Germans were driven from their centuries-old homelands around the same time, and millions of Ponic Greeks and Armenians a bit before that, and nobody today talks about them.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  108. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @gabriel alberton

    I’m sure that you’re aware of regression to the mean, so why do you ignore it.

    The “hard-working” Mexican’s kids, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be just like your average Mexican.
     
    I'm not so sure you're aware of it yourself. The average Mexican immigrant to the US is not just like the average Mexican, and so their children and grandchildren likely won't be either. They might be smellier, taller, fatter, smarter, prettier, even gayer than the average Mexican, I don't know, but I do know immigrants are unlikely to be "just like'' the countrymen they leave behind. Not exactly a representative, randomly selected sample.

    I don’t want their vote to count in how I am to be governed.
     
    Since there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today, what do you propose? Do you actually think they can all be made to go back? That should suffice to show you could be more in the middle of a wet daydream than thinking straight, but if it doesn't, what to do about the ones who intermarried and had kids who only slightly like tacos? Will only half or one quarter of them, such as one arm and one leg, be made to go back? What do you propose?

    Besides that, your white nation will evidently not be very democratic, as you get to decide who, in your country, gets to vote or not based on their ancestry, personal hygiene, and whether they are turned on by the smell of quesadillas. The Founders were no fans of democracy either, so you have history on your side! But how will the increasingly not-as-white Americans of today react to a explicitly undemocratic platform? Do you plan to disenfranchise everyone whose name ends in a vowel? Because, speaking strictly hypothetically, they might not be on board with all that stuff.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @Anonymous

    Since there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today, what do you propose? Do you actually think they can all be made to go back? That should suffice to show you could be more in the middle of a wet daydream than thinking straight, but if it doesn’t, what to do about the ones who intermarried and had kids who only slightly like tacos? Will only half or one quarter of them, such as one arm and one leg, be made to go back? What do you propose?

    When you find yourself in a hole, the first step is to stop digging.

    In other words, whatever the past…..¡No más! Immigration stops now, for all but a trickle of highly selected people. Not even taking into account race, nationality, ethnicity, religion, etc, an immigration moratorium.

    Then we cut a deal with Mexico and the Central American countries that will give them a slice of some of the low end manufacturing we now give to China, and make it somewhat more attractive for these people to stay where they are supposed to, so they can feed a family of reasonable size and have as good a life as is feasible in those mixed race shitholes…..just kidding, those developing economies.

    Those who are thoroughly assimilated are probably here to stay, I’m a realist. There are still more Anglos here than you guys and I’m going to work for policies that benefit us. Some of them will benefit some of you too. Some of them you might not prefer. But if we keep our numbers up we are going to win. The problem is whites that are anti-white. Blacks, steezers, Jews, and everyone else are not the fundamental problem, the fundamental problem as always throughout history is whites because history is white. Nonwhites are just accessory players, all the real actors are white. We’re the lead dogs and for everyone else the scenery never changes.

    Just sayin’.

    🙂

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous


    Since there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today, what do you propose? Do you actually think they can all be made to go back?
     
    More pilpul, an attempt to change the issue to something that can't be decided. So here's a counter:

    Do you honestly believe that they came? And, if they came, they can go back. The ones born here, well, their parents came of their own free will. The ones born here can leave of their own free will. Or whatever.

    And the exchange becomes another "is", "is not" argument that, a few years back, would end up decided by Godwin's law.
  109. @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    Of course — but again, I’m doing your work for you.
     
    Which is how I like it.

    Your sources claim the total costs of illegal immigration are much larger than how much illegal immigrants contribute in taxes (federal, state, and local). Which is true. It says "Evidence shows that the tax payments made by illegal aliens fail to cover the costs of the many services they consume''. But what about the services they provide?

    Both those sources are silent on that. The report only mentions taxes. In the editorial, it is said that "In the modern American economy people with that level of education tend to make modest wages and as result pay relatively little in taxes, at the same time they tend to use a lot in public services, regardless of legal status.''. Emphasis mine. They pay little in taxes in good part because, your source says, they are not paid handsomely for what they do, but their work has value. It must have, as their employers wouldn't hire them to take siestas.

    So, yes, it is more complicated than what you wrote. Through their jobs, workers -- both illegal immigrants and American citizens -- create wealth, and contribute to the gross domestic product of the United States by producing goods and services. The illegal immigrants could pay no tax, at all -- 0 billion rather than 11.6 or 19 billion per year -- no income tax, no sales tax, no federal, state, or local taxes. As long as they work, and are paid less than the value their work creates, they'll contribute to the economy. Having illegal immigrants, however, is not free. They have a cost. Do they contribute more through their labor than what they cost to the economy (~135 billion in 2017, says the report)? What share of the 21 trillion dollar American GDP is due to them? More or less than 135 billion? I don't know. Do you? Feel absolutely free to do my work for me.


    Also — it doesn’t matter if the job is dangerous or not. There are plenty of illegals in the restaurant industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc. industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc.
     
    So you say. If that is the case, then a lot of work done in the United States is done by illegal immigrants, and so quite some wealth from services is generated by them. Note you are saying there are a lot of illegals doing those jobs, not me. Like I said, how pervasive illegal immigrant labor is in the US is, from all I've checked, unknown.

    There is no intrinsic set wage for a job, a lot of it is negotiating leverage between employer and employee. Now let’s just add a bunch of unskilled illegal workers to the labor pool, undercut poor Americans, and then thank the illegals for doing the work of those American takers.
     
    So it might be that they do those jobs in exchange for a fraction of the payment that an American-born citizen will. If that's the case, it is expected at least some employers will take note of that, and in negotiating leverage, hire the illegal immigrants over the American citizen. After all, one of the great things about the United States is that it is a free country and a free market. Those employers could well thank their illegal immigrant employees for cheaply providing their services, but I'm not sure they do.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @notsaying

    This long-winded answer has very little real content — thank God I’m not paying you. I’m not a libertarian nor a free trader, but very much an American, so throwing phrases like ‘free country’ and especially ‘free market’ don’t have magical neutralization effects on me. I actually can’t do anything I desire in America, and neither should any employer. It’s not a ‘free country’ in the sense anything goes, and certainly ‘free market’ was not part of my military oath. Since I already stated in my previous comment I know employers selfishly use illegal labor to increase their profits, what exactly is your point again? To imply they are correct to be selfish?

  110. @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    Interesting. Are there “dozens of millions of Mexicans” in the United States? Exactly how many Mexicans are there here? And just so there is no confusion: you are stating these Mexicans have American ‘papers’, but are still Mexican in heart and soul?
     
    Around 30 to 40 million people in the US say they're descended from Mexicanos. You can go check yourself. Possibly a few millions of those are illegal immigrants and their descendents, but how many I'm unsure. Do they consider themselves still Mexicans in heart and soul? I don't know either. But it seems quite a few do. I don't know about what you want for your country, but the anonymous commenter there was pretty clear he wants a white nation. That means those dozens of millions of tequila drinkers will necessarily have to go, unless they can turn into WASPs somehow. CRISPR?

    Because we Americans want truth on exactly how many nationalities should be allowed into our native land, and have the exact same legal and political rights and control as us, but retain allegiance to their own nation. That would certainly be good for us to debate.
     
    Very well, but how to know if an immigrant/naturalized citizen/descendent of either still retains allegiance to their original nation if he doesn't make it public (i.e. they keep it secret)? Spying on them could work. But I read Americans dislike that, or at least are supposed to. Civil liberties stuff. So what to do? Please do note I'm not American, so no way I'll provide or suggest any actual advice on how to run a country I'm not a citizen of, but conflict interests me.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Oh come now dear Gabriel — I provided citations for my assertions about the cost of illegal immigration in my native land. I need to see proof of your assertion many American paper holders consider themselves Mexican. Don’t disappoint me.

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    A 2013 Health and Human Services essay gave that 19 million Latin American immigrants lived in the US back in 2010. 61% of those were Mexicans, so about 11-12 millions. They made that estimate based on Census Bureau data. Since that was soon after the Great Recession, a decade ago, it is not unreasonable to suppose that number might have grown a little since then. Therefore, yes, like I originally said, "there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today'', fresh outta the boat, or desert.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4638184/

    The Census Bureau also estimated that, in 2018 36 million US residents (citizens and illegals) had ancestors that wore sombreros and sang narcocorridos. If they consider themselves Mexican, I don't know. I already said so: "Do they consider themselves still Mexicans in heart and soul? I don’t know either''

    That essay also estimated there were 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the US at the time. Yet I said the number is unknown. I had read that essay already, and maintain the actual number is unknown, as the Department of Homeland Security claimed, citing a 2017 MIT study, there are 22 million illegals instead. Who to believe? Who is closer to the truth on this issue? I don't know.

    You said I wrote too much and said very little. Could be. You didn't address the question I made, that is whether illegals contribute to the American gross domestic product through their work (not just through taxes) and if that amount is larger or not than what they cost to the economy, so could it be you said even less with your reply? And whether large employers are correct to be selfish: their wealth and unrepetant use of illegal labor suggest that yes, they're very much correct (from their point of view).

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

  111. @Reg Cæsar

    This is a story of how Irish Catholic leaders like John, Robert, and Edward Kennedy worked...
     
    Actually, the real mean Mick would have been Philip Hart:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hart

    From the page on the Act itself:


    In establishing a restrictive entry system for Germany in 1925, Adolf Hitler...
     
    Betcha didn't know Hitler was in power in 1925, already "establishing" things. What would we do without Wikipedia?

    ...wrote of his admiration for America's immigration laws:

    The American Union categorically refuses the immigration of physically unhealthy elements, and simply excludes the immigration of certain races.
     

     
    In other words, acting like any independent and sovereign country in Asia or Europe. Like, say, the one based in Peiping. Eh, Miss Yang?

    ...Lyndon Johnson, himself marked deeply by his early years teaching Mexican-American schoolchildren in Texas.
     
    The Act didn't apply to Mexicans. It did affect Mexican-Americans-- by lowering their wage-bargaining power.

    Yang’s “One Mighty and Irresistible Tide” is at base a political story...
     
    Damn right it is. One mighty and resistible Tide Pod that is inadvisable to swallow.

    ...and it is a uniquely American story
     
    Because we are a uniquely naive and stupid people. (Now watch Corvinus come along to defend us.)


    https://epmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Screen-Shot-2018-03-05-at-12.31.47-PM-703x441.png

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Peter D. Bredon

    In establishing a restrictive entry system for Germany in 1925, Adolf Hitler…

    I edited the entry, and even the evil Grayfell couldn’t figure out how to make the original insane entry work.

  112. @Reg Cæsar

    This is a story of how Irish Catholic leaders like John, Robert, and Edward Kennedy worked...
     
    Actually, the real mean Mick would have been Philip Hart:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hart

    From the page on the Act itself:


    In establishing a restrictive entry system for Germany in 1925, Adolf Hitler...
     
    Betcha didn't know Hitler was in power in 1925, already "establishing" things. What would we do without Wikipedia?

    ...wrote of his admiration for America's immigration laws:

    The American Union categorically refuses the immigration of physically unhealthy elements, and simply excludes the immigration of certain races.
     

     
    In other words, acting like any independent and sovereign country in Asia or Europe. Like, say, the one based in Peiping. Eh, Miss Yang?

    ...Lyndon Johnson, himself marked deeply by his early years teaching Mexican-American schoolchildren in Texas.
     
    The Act didn't apply to Mexicans. It did affect Mexican-Americans-- by lowering their wage-bargaining power.

    Yang’s “One Mighty and Irresistible Tide” is at base a political story...
     
    Damn right it is. One mighty and resistible Tide Pod that is inadvisable to swallow.

    ...and it is a uniquely American story
     
    Because we are a uniquely naive and stupid people. (Now watch Corvinus come along to defend us.)


    https://epmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Screen-Shot-2018-03-05-at-12.31.47-PM-703x441.png

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Peter D. Bredon

    It would be nice to have a cite to the actual Wikipedia page for “the act” rather than the Hart page. The wiki page for the Hart-Cellar Act that I can find

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

    doesn’t have the Hitler quote. And MSNBC says you guys make stuff up.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Peter D. Bredon


    The wiki page for the Hart-Cellar Act that I can find...
    doesn’t have the Hitler quote. And MSNBC says you guys make stuff up.

     

    It's the fifth sentence here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965#Background

    The 1925 part was there a day or two ago. Someone-- not me-- just corrected it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965&action=history

    This was the first correction in eight days, so I wonder if someone here did the editing.
  113. @Peter D. Bredon
    @Reg Cæsar

    It would be nice to have a cite to the actual Wikipedia page for "the act" rather than the Hart page. The wiki page for the Hart-Cellar Act that I can find

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

    doesn't have the Hitler quote. And MSNBC says you guys make stuff up.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The wiki page for the Hart-Cellar Act that I can find…
    doesn’t have the Hitler quote. And MSNBC says you guys make stuff up.

    It’s the fifth sentence here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965#Background

    The 1925 part was there a day or two ago. Someone– not me– just corrected it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965&action=history

    This was the first correction in eight days, so I wonder if someone here did the editing.

  114. Thread:


    [MORE]

    ******
    HT:

  115. eah says:

    I showed this to a friend (no, not the elderly Italian one who tried but failed to pass for 59 y/o; that friend died) who suggested I relay this reaction:

    Maybe ‘citizenism’ (you forgot the ‘anti-racist’ and ‘conservative’ parts) is failing to ‘catch on’ because, as a philosophy, it’s miserably misguided, and someone who has ostensibly been interested in the observable manifestations of human biology and ‘biodiversity’ for some time really ought to have noticed that by now — its consideration or adoption will, more than anything, do further harm to the interests of goodhearted, well-meaning, but pathologically altruistic Whites by unilaterally disarming them in the midst of a vital political struggle that is fundamentally ethnic and tribal (“Kill the Boer”).

    Gone but not forgotten –> Modern Tribalist.

  116. @Anon

    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”
     
    Which must be why America is exactly like Asia, Africa, Latin America. So why are they all dying to come in again?

    Replies: @I. Racist, @Mr. XYZ

    For the magic dirt, obviously. Stop bogarting the magic dirt.

  117. @Anonymous
    @CarlosHathitachiTheSecond

    I switched to the dvorak keyboard for a while. I was a very fast typist under qwerty and Dvorak made me faster yet. However, the PITA factor of having to use random terminals in university put an end to that experiment. I can already type as fast as a lot of people talk with QWERTY, with some abbreviations. At this stage of my life I don't think the benefit is worth the cost, but in theory if everyone changed over life would be somewhat more efficient you would think.

    Citizenism is something of a stepping stone either to or from ethnic nationalism. Considering where society is now, it's a step in that direction.

    Replies: @Perplexed

    I had a job that was typing all day and started to develop carpal tunnel. Over a four-day holiday I retrained myself on Dvorak, which groups the most-used characters to minimize stretching. My wrists have been fine ever since.

  118. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @gabriel alberton


    Since there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today, what do you propose? Do you actually think they can all be made to go back? That should suffice to show you could be more in the middle of a wet daydream than thinking straight, but if it doesn’t, what to do about the ones who intermarried and had kids who only slightly like tacos? Will only half or one quarter of them, such as one arm and one leg, be made to go back? What do you propose?
     
    When you find yourself in a hole, the first step is to stop digging.

    In other words, whatever the past.....¡No más! Immigration stops now, for all but a trickle of highly selected people. Not even taking into account race, nationality, ethnicity, religion, etc, an immigration moratorium.

    Then we cut a deal with Mexico and the Central American countries that will give them a slice of some of the low end manufacturing we now give to China, and make it somewhat more attractive for these people to stay where they are supposed to, so they can feed a family of reasonable size and have as good a life as is feasible in those mixed race shitholes.....just kidding, those developing economies.

    Those who are thoroughly assimilated are probably here to stay, I'm a realist. There are still more Anglos here than you guys and I'm going to work for policies that benefit us. Some of them will benefit some of you too. Some of them you might not prefer. But if we keep our numbers up we are going to win. The problem is whites that are anti-white. Blacks, steezers, Jews, and everyone else are not the fundamental problem, the fundamental problem as always throughout history is whites because history is white. Nonwhites are just accessory players, all the real actors are white. We're the lead dogs and for everyone else the scenery never changes.

    Just sayin'.

    :-)

    Replies: @Anon

    Since there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today, what do you propose? Do you actually think they can all be made to go back?

    More pilpul, an attempt to change the issue to something that can’t be decided. So here’s a counter:

    Do you honestly believe that they came? And, if they came, they can go back. The ones born here, well, their parents came of their own free will. The ones born here can leave of their own free will. Or whatever.

    And the exchange becomes another “is”, “is not” argument that, a few years back, would end up decided by Godwin’s law.

  119. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @ATBOTL
    Citizenism isn't catching on because younger white people see white nationalism as the only solution for the West. Citizenism has no emotional resonance with anyone. Younger white Americans feel little attachment to America as a state and increasingly, little attachment to America as a culture. We know that we don't have much in common with people of other races, even seemingly assimilated ones. How? Because we grew up with them. We were even friends with them.

    The idea that we are supposed to find common ground with the descendants of the Mexicans and Indians that the elites brought to replace us is absurd. There can be no common ground. This is just white man's burden thinking updated. Expect to see things developing in the opposite direction as citizenism: Minorities increasingly anti-assimilation and younger whites withdrawing from mainstream America into white-identity oriented spaces.

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel, @anon, @Anonymous

    Minorities increasingly anti-assimilation and younger whites withdrawing from mainstream America into white-identity oriented spaces.

    You’ve called it. I’ve seen that for years, and now see nothing but that.

  120. If illegal immigrants do not pay their own way in terms of health care for themselves and their families, then this is largely a function of the way that health care in the US costs ten times as much as in most other countries.

    However, since their employers are profiting from their labor, this is just another example of privatizing profits and socializing losses.

    The solution is a universal health service paid for by payroll taxes for both employee and employer contributions, (like Social Security.) The self employed pay for both sides, of course. The wealthy who want a better service can also buy a la carte luxury health insurance plans as they desire.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Jonathan Mason

    If illegal immigrants do not pay their own way in terms of health care for themselves and their families, then this is largely a function of the way that health care in the US costs ten times as much as in most other countries.

    Maybe, maybe not, but who cares? Aside from one-note monomaniacs who recite DNCe talking points like an aging, demented parrot, I mean, who cares?

    Illegals use hospital ER's for much of their care. They don't pay, they are routinely indigent, so everyone else gets to chip in. No matter how the health care system is structured, illegal aliens are free-riders on everyone else.

    The same is true for school systems. Every public school in the US is required by law to take in children of illegals, and provide them with education. There is no way migrant agricultural workers pay enough taxes to offset that cost. They are free riders on the actual taxpayers, and the majority of their children never even get out of high school.

    Really, old boy, you shouldn't try to shove your pet hobby into every convo. It's just not a good look.

  121. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @ATBOTL

    I will like and respect non-Whites as individuals, but feel no kinship with them. They feel the same about me and all other Whites. For the most part, they regard the US as, at best, an ATM machine, and, at worst, territory for conquest.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    For the most part, they regard the US as, at best, an ATM machine, and, at worst, territory for conquest.

    More like “always” than “at worst”. Remember the “Great American Boycott” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Boycott) demonstration (show of force) of 2006 when all the flags carried the first day were Mexican flags? People noticed, so next day, everybody showed up with an American flag, but it was a bit late.

    The old Greek polis (small city that controlled its own hinterland, plural: poleis) were at one time scattered throughout the Mediterranean, and after Alexander the Great, scattered across much of Asia. The Mediterranean poleis were primarily Greek (other groups preferred non-polis organization), but had very many different political systems. Aristotle used the history of the Mediterranean poleis, which he treated as political experiments, to draw general conclusions about politics.

    And he found out quite a few things of interest to us:
    * Tyrants attempt to introduce ethnic diversity, as it reduces the chance of successful rebellion (which suggests that the American Jewish establishment has very politically powerful non-Jewish allies, perhaps the political organizations that run large US cities).
    * Those poleis that were founded by two groups tended to have civil wars (the US was founded by several groups, and now has about 9 different ethnic regions). Any group could win the war, original settlers, new group, another polis (taking over the original polis after being invited into the fight).

    The article is well worth reading, and its conclusion is:

    Aristotle’s grim observations on diversity are worth repeating: unassimilable immigration can only lead to conflict, conflict which can only end through separation, separation which can only occur through the expulsion either of the invaders or the natives from their ancestral lands.

    (https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/02/24/aristotle-on-immigration-diversity-and-democracy/)

    Given this conclusion, the US Civil Rights legislation and court cases (Bake in particular) can only be thought of as an effort to re-write the US Constitution so as to expel non-POC inhabitants, although it was sold to the non-POC inhabitants as an effort to integrate the entire American population — such an integration having never been recorded in the Mediterranean polis and regarded as impossible by Aristotle. (See: Christopher Caldwell, _The Age of Entitlement: America Since the Sixties_, Simon & Schuster; 2020).

    There is a counterexample — sort of — the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was as successful in ethnic assimilation as the US population thought it was in 1950. However — The Roman Empire was and remained a military dictatorship that was as insistent on central control as any Chinese Empire. The Roman Empire succeeded in assimilation by co-opting the local elites into Roman life down to language, architecture, dress, political structure, with rather bloody ends for those who refused to be co-opted. It was somewhat like the Soviet method of making the New Soviet Man — take out everybody who won’t conform — or like the US method of reducing violent crime — three strikes and you’re in prison until age 30 or so. The difference is that the Romans kept the effort up for several Centuries, eventually letting the Roman aristocracy be replaced by a Romanized provincial aristocracy. (See: Kyle Harper, _The Fate of Rome_, Princeton University Press, 2017; for a heartbreaking story of how Rome survived a climate change (Roman Climate Optimum (200 BC to AD 150) to the Late Antique Little Ice Age (450-700) and two major waves of plague before being reduced to a rump state shortly after the third wave. )

    So — simple answers, but none that sounds like it would be fun living through. Well, when Daddy takes the T-Bird away, we don’t get a choice:

    and maybe real life will have an outcome as rewarding as the song. Eventually.

    And he found out quite a few things of interest to us:
    * Tyrants attempt to introduce ethnic diversity, as it reduces the chance of successful rebellion (which suggests that the American Jewish establishment has very politically powerful non-Jewish allies, perhaps the political organizations that run large US cities).
    * Those poleis that were founded by two groups tended to have civil wars (the US was founded by several groups, and now has about 9 different ethnic regions). Any group could win the war, original settlers, new group, another polis (taking over the original polis after being invited into the fight).

    The article is well worth reading, and its conclusion is:

    Aristotle’s grim observations on diversity are worth repeating: unassimilable immigration can only lead to conflict, conflict which can only end through separation, separation which can only occur through the expulsion either of the invaders or the natives from their ancestral lands.

    (https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/02/24/aristotle-on-immigration-diversity-and-democracy/)

    Given this conclusion, the US Civil Rights legislation and court cases (Bake in particular) can only be thought of as an effort to re-write the US Constitution so as to expel non-POC inhabitants, although it was sold to the non-POC inhabitants as an effort to integrate the entire American population — such an integration having never been recorded in the Mediterranean polis and regarded as impossible by Aristotle. (See: Christopher Caldwell, _The Age of Entitlement: America Since the Sixties_, Simon & Schuster; 2020).

    There is a counterexample — sort of — the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was as successful in ethnic assimilation as the US population thought it was in 1950. However — The Roman Empire was and remained a military dictatorship that was as insistent on central control as any Chinese Empire. The Roman Empire succeeded in assimilation by co-opting the local elites into Roman life down to language, architecture, dress, political structure, with rather bloody ends for those who refused to be co-opted. It was somewhat like the Soviet method of making the New Soviet Man — take out everybody who won’t conform — or like the US method of reducing violent crime — three strikes and you’re in prison until age 30 or so. The difference is that the Romans kept the effort up for several Centuries, eventually letting the Roman aristocracy be replaced by a Romanized provincial aristocracy. (See: Kyle Harper, _The Fate of Rome_, Princeton University Press, 2017; for a heartbreaking story of how Rome survived a climate change (Roman Climate Optimum (200 BC to AD 150) to the Late Antique Little Ice Age (450-700) and two major waves of plague before being reduced to a rump state shortly after the third wave. )

    So — simple answers, but none that sounds like it would be fun living through. Well, when Daddy takes the T-Bird away, we don’t get a choice:

    and maybe real life will have an outcome as rewarding as the song. Eventually.

  122. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    Oh come now dear Gabriel -- I provided citations for my assertions about the cost of illegal immigration in my native land. I need to see proof of your assertion many American paper holders consider themselves Mexican. Don't disappoint me.

    Replies: @gabriel alberton

    A 2013 Health and Human Services essay gave that 19 million Latin American immigrants lived in the US back in 2010. 61% of those were Mexicans, so about 11-12 millions. They made that estimate based on Census Bureau data. Since that was soon after the Great Recession, a decade ago, it is not unreasonable to suppose that number might have grown a little since then. Therefore, yes, like I originally said, “there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today”, fresh outta the boat, or desert.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4638184/

    The Census Bureau also estimated that, in 2018 36 million US residents (citizens and illegals) had ancestors that wore sombreros and sang narcocorridos. If they consider themselves Mexican, I don’t know. I already said so: “Do they consider themselves still Mexicans in heart and soul? I don’t know either”

    That essay also estimated there were 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the US at the time. Yet I said the number is unknown. I had read that essay already, and maintain the actual number is unknown, as the Department of Homeland Security claimed, citing a 2017 MIT study, there are 22 million illegals instead. Who to believe? Who is closer to the truth on this issue? I don’t know.

    You said I wrote too much and said very little. Could be. You didn’t address the question I made, that is whether illegals contribute to the American gross domestic product through their work (not just through taxes) and if that amount is larger or not than what they cost to the economy, so could it be you said even less with your reply? And whether large employers are correct to be selfish: their wealth and unrepetant use of illegal labor suggest that yes, they’re very much correct (from their point of view).

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @gabriel alberton

    I'm quite clear about illegal immigration being a drain on the American economy. Illegal immigrants did not invent new occupations. They do not fill roles in American society that could not have been filled otherwise. They do work Americans did in the past for much better wages. So when employers use illegal immigrants to break the power of American labor, illegal immigrants don't magically get credit for adding to our gross domestic product. The average American does not benefit from illegal labor, ends up subsiding the illegal immigrants and their families, and also have to take care of displaced American workers to boot, who as a final insult have to complete with illegal immigrants for housing in their own neighborhoods.

    And this is all just economic disruption. Illegal immigrants are also certainly massive takers in the social sense, which is even more important: continuously straining and poisoning the social and linguistic unity it took monumental effort for this beautiful country to create. The massive influx of the children of illegal immigrants in states like California -- with their low academic performance -- have finally begun to degrade the quality of even the vaunted UC system. In much smaller numbers such individuals probably could have easily assimilated into true Americans and succeeded. Sadly, SAT scores don't indicate anything impressive at all about the scholastic abilities of the children of illegal immigrants. I personally do think they should go to college, and at UCs in proportion to their population. It is the duty of a state university system.

    But again, we're back to the original point of illegal immigration continually lowering the quality of life of most Americans -- the illegal immigrants being takers -- combined with the grotesque implication that Americans owe the illegal immigrants anything for 'helping' us. That one is a bridge too far.

    But we are getting somewhere, slowly. Note I didn't ask you if employers were correct to be selfish from their point of view -- you added that addendum because you don't want to answer my question. Be straightforward Gabriel. Are you stating that American employers are correct to be selfish?

  123. anonymous[211] • Disclaimer says:
    @Menschmaschine
    @anonymous

    Aramaic, Syriac and Arabic are all semitic languages, certainly not "totally different". Replacing a language does of course in no way imply that the population was replaced - an example from the same timeframe are the Hungarians which were compelled to adopt a completely new language, but with very little genetic traces of the invasion. And of course people change their religions, voluntary or by coercion.

    Anyway, it is clear where you are coming from - you are Jewish and want to construct an excuse for the ongoing ethnical cleansing of the Palestinians. It is however not quite clear how this would help you - why would the ethnical cleansing be any more justified even if the cleansees were only a thousand years living there instead of several thousands?

    Replies: @anonymous

    The whole story of human history is invasion after invasion, displacement after displacement – there is nothing uniquely sacred or rooted about Palestinian Arabs. They haven’t been there for “thousands of years” as the initial, stupid, hyperbolic comment claimed, and as you now concede.

    They conquered the area and largely eliminated the previous inhabitants between 1000 and 500 years ago (with another wave coming from Egypt and Jordan 100 years ago), and then wouldn’t you know it in turn some of them were driven from part of it 80 years ago (with a big assist from foolishly not accepting the UN partition plan). Such is life as a human society. Much larger numbers of Sudaten, Panonian, and Baltic Germans were driven from their centuries-old homelands around the same time, and millions of Ponic Greeks and Armenians a bit before that, and nobody today talks about them.

    • Troll: James Speaks
    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @anonymous

    Checkmate


    The whole story of human history is invasion after invasion, displacement after displacement
     
    This is the endgame with Zionists pigs (and I mean no disrespect to pigs); Zionism is all about taking. Zionism is the European dialect of gibs. Once you get a Zionist to admit it's all about conquest, then the vapid "Israel has the right to defend itself" is exposed as Israel arrogates the right to take by force, at which point armed resistance against all Zionists becomes legal under international law. Followed to its logical conclusion, Hez b'Allah, the SAA, Al Quds and Iraqi PMU are freedom fighters and Zionists look more and more like militant, national socialists, AKA NAZI's

    – there is nothing uniquely sacred or rooted about Palestinian Arabs.
     
    ... except for the fact that their DNA has been there for thouands and thousands of years. The addition of DNA from neighboring areas does not invalidate the inherent right of Palestinians to defend themselves.
  124. @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    A 2013 Health and Human Services essay gave that 19 million Latin American immigrants lived in the US back in 2010. 61% of those were Mexicans, so about 11-12 millions. They made that estimate based on Census Bureau data. Since that was soon after the Great Recession, a decade ago, it is not unreasonable to suppose that number might have grown a little since then. Therefore, yes, like I originally said, "there are dozens of millions of Mexicans and other assorted Spanish-speaking tortilla eaters living in the US today'', fresh outta the boat, or desert.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4638184/

    The Census Bureau also estimated that, in 2018 36 million US residents (citizens and illegals) had ancestors that wore sombreros and sang narcocorridos. If they consider themselves Mexican, I don't know. I already said so: "Do they consider themselves still Mexicans in heart and soul? I don’t know either''

    That essay also estimated there were 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the US at the time. Yet I said the number is unknown. I had read that essay already, and maintain the actual number is unknown, as the Department of Homeland Security claimed, citing a 2017 MIT study, there are 22 million illegals instead. Who to believe? Who is closer to the truth on this issue? I don't know.

    You said I wrote too much and said very little. Could be. You didn't address the question I made, that is whether illegals contribute to the American gross domestic product through their work (not just through taxes) and if that amount is larger or not than what they cost to the economy, so could it be you said even less with your reply? And whether large employers are correct to be selfish: their wealth and unrepetant use of illegal labor suggest that yes, they're very much correct (from their point of view).

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I’m quite clear about illegal immigration being a drain on the American economy. Illegal immigrants did not invent new occupations. They do not fill roles in American society that could not have been filled otherwise. They do work Americans did in the past for much better wages. So when employers use illegal immigrants to break the power of American labor, illegal immigrants don’t magically get credit for adding to our gross domestic product. The average American does not benefit from illegal labor, ends up subsiding the illegal immigrants and their families, and also have to take care of displaced American workers to boot, who as a final insult have to complete with illegal immigrants for housing in their own neighborhoods.

    And this is all just economic disruption. Illegal immigrants are also certainly massive takers in the social sense, which is even more important: continuously straining and poisoning the social and linguistic unity it took monumental effort for this beautiful country to create. The massive influx of the children of illegal immigrants in states like California — with their low academic performance — have finally begun to degrade the quality of even the vaunted UC system. In much smaller numbers such individuals probably could have easily assimilated into true Americans and succeeded. Sadly, SAT scores don’t indicate anything impressive at all about the scholastic abilities of the children of illegal immigrants. I personally do think they should go to college, and at UCs in proportion to their population. It is the duty of a state university system.

    But again, we’re back to the original point of illegal immigration continually lowering the quality of life of most Americans — the illegal immigrants being takers — combined with the grotesque implication that Americans owe the illegal immigrants anything for ‘helping’ us. That one is a bridge too far.

    But we are getting somewhere, slowly. Note I didn’t ask you if employers were correct to be selfish from their point of view — you added that addendum because you don’t want to answer my question. Be straightforward Gabriel. Are you stating that American employers are correct to be selfish?

    • Agree: notsaying
  125. @VinnyVette
    @TomSchmidt

    I wager to guess a huge factor in this is that is the fulcrum point of second wave feminism combined with easy no fault divorce and the destruction of the nuclear family in addition to what you noted.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    The nuclear family is a hothouse flower of post-war economic efflorescence. Ronald Reagan signing the first no-fault divorce law is about the time, though. Now, what was it about the economy of the time that it began to become imperative to send women out of the home to earn money? The real drop in working class wages started to become obvious around 1973.

    Throw divorce culture on top of declining breadwinner wages and you have a catastrophe. Much like the catastrophe of nursing homes. Interesting David Brooks article:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-nuclear-family-was-a-mistake/605536/

    As the years go by in the movie, the extended family plays a smaller and smaller role. By the 1960s, there’s no extended family at Thanksgiving. It’s just a young father and mother and their son and daughter, eating turkey off trays in front of the television. In the final scene, the main character is living alone in a nursing home, wondering what happened. “In the end, you spend everything you’ve ever saved, sell everything you’ve ever owned, just to exist in a place like this.

    Substituting economic work for more important non-paid work led us here. Increased wage pressure from immigration helped drive that.

  126. @Joe Walker
    Citizenism hasn't caught on because it ignores basic human nature. Humans evolved to be tribal which means that WASPs are pro-WASP, blacks are pro-black, Jews are pro-Jew and so on and so forth.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    WAPSs are pro-WASP, blacks are pro-black, Jews are pro-Jew

    I’m not so sure about the first part there.

  127. @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    Of course — but again, I’m doing your work for you.
     
    Which is how I like it.

    Your sources claim the total costs of illegal immigration are much larger than how much illegal immigrants contribute in taxes (federal, state, and local). Which is true. It says "Evidence shows that the tax payments made by illegal aliens fail to cover the costs of the many services they consume''. But what about the services they provide?

    Both those sources are silent on that. The report only mentions taxes. In the editorial, it is said that "In the modern American economy people with that level of education tend to make modest wages and as result pay relatively little in taxes, at the same time they tend to use a lot in public services, regardless of legal status.''. Emphasis mine. They pay little in taxes in good part because, your source says, they are not paid handsomely for what they do, but their work has value. It must have, as their employers wouldn't hire them to take siestas.

    So, yes, it is more complicated than what you wrote. Through their jobs, workers -- both illegal immigrants and American citizens -- create wealth, and contribute to the gross domestic product of the United States by producing goods and services. The illegal immigrants could pay no tax, at all -- 0 billion rather than 11.6 or 19 billion per year -- no income tax, no sales tax, no federal, state, or local taxes. As long as they work, and are paid less than the value their work creates, they'll contribute to the economy. Having illegal immigrants, however, is not free. They have a cost. Do they contribute more through their labor than what they cost to the economy (~135 billion in 2017, says the report)? What share of the 21 trillion dollar American GDP is due to them? More or less than 135 billion? I don't know. Do you? Feel absolutely free to do my work for me.


    Also — it doesn’t matter if the job is dangerous or not. There are plenty of illegals in the restaurant industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc. industry, or cleaning cars, or hotel rooms, or being a nanny, etc etc.
     
    So you say. If that is the case, then a lot of work done in the United States is done by illegal immigrants, and so quite some wealth from services is generated by them. Note you are saying there are a lot of illegals doing those jobs, not me. Like I said, how pervasive illegal immigrant labor is in the US is, from all I've checked, unknown.

    There is no intrinsic set wage for a job, a lot of it is negotiating leverage between employer and employee. Now let’s just add a bunch of unskilled illegal workers to the labor pool, undercut poor Americans, and then thank the illegals for doing the work of those American takers.
     
    So it might be that they do those jobs in exchange for a fraction of the payment that an American-born citizen will. If that's the case, it is expected at least some employers will take note of that, and in negotiating leverage, hire the illegal immigrants over the American citizen. After all, one of the great things about the United States is that it is a free country and a free market. Those employers could well thank their illegal immigrant employees for cheaply providing their services, but I'm not sure they do.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @notsaying

    Employers are not allowed to hire whoever they want in America. The only way they can legally hire immigrants is if the federal government allows them to.

    Like fools American workers have accepted the hiring of millions of immigrant workers we did not need. We allowed employers to hire both legal and illegal workers for the specific purpose of working them harder while paying them less than Americans. There is no arguing that fact.

    But we can change this acceptance to refusal. The citizen-owners of this country can insist that American workers be hired. The employers and the immigrants themselves have no rights in this case.
    Congress and the voters are in charge of immigration. The problem is that Congress and the voters don’t use their power to eliminate unnecessary immigration.

  128. Another one I skipped when I read the by-line

  129. @anonymous
    @Menschmaschine

    The whole story of human history is invasion after invasion, displacement after displacement - there is nothing uniquely sacred or rooted about Palestinian Arabs. They haven't been there for "thousands of years" as the initial, stupid, hyperbolic comment claimed, and as you now concede.

    They conquered the area and largely eliminated the previous inhabitants between 1000 and 500 years ago (with another wave coming from Egypt and Jordan 100 years ago), and then wouldn't you know it in turn some of them were driven from part of it 80 years ago (with a big assist from foolishly not accepting the UN partition plan). Such is life as a human society. Much larger numbers of Sudaten, Panonian, and Baltic Germans were driven from their centuries-old homelands around the same time, and millions of Ponic Greeks and Armenians a bit before that, and nobody today talks about them.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Checkmate

    The whole story of human history is invasion after invasion, displacement after displacement

    This is the endgame with Zionists pigs (and I mean no disrespect to pigs); Zionism is all about taking. Zionism is the European dialect of gibs. Once you get a Zionist to admit it’s all about conquest, then the vapid “Israel has the right to defend itself” is exposed as Israel arrogates the right to take by force, at which point armed resistance against all Zionists becomes legal under international law. Followed to its logical conclusion, Hez b’Allah, the SAA, Al Quds and Iraqi PMU are freedom fighters and Zionists look more and more like militant, national socialists, AKA NAZI’s

    – there is nothing uniquely sacred or rooted about Palestinian Arabs.

    … except for the fact that their DNA has been there for thouands and thousands of years. The addition of DNA from neighboring areas does not invalidate the inherent right of Palestinians to defend themselves.

  130. ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”

    Which is why instead of there being 15 Pritzkers on the Forbes billionaire list there are zero, as the Daddies Pritzker left all of their money to charity.

    I mean really, what difference is there between me and some dude with the name Pritzker or Gates or Walton or Zuckerberg on his birth certificate? There is none.

    I hope Mr. Shribman has kids, and I hope he treats them exactly no differently and provides them with nothing more than he provides for other people’s children. I hope he only washes his car when he washes everyone else’s car. I hope he only mows his lawn when he mows everyone else’s lawn. I hope he’s as happy to wipe everyone else’s ass as his own. I hope he’s as happy when his wife (or husband) has sex with someone else as when they have sex with him.

    I mean what a brilliant insight Mr. Shribman has arrived at. How dare we care anymore about our own interests than we do about the interests of anyone else? Because surely everyone else on the planet is every bit as selfless as Shrib wants us to be.

    • Agree: Rob McX
  131. @Anon
    @Buzz Mohawk

    After a lifetime of observation, I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible for nonwhites to fully assimilate into white societies. It's been 400 years and blacks still have not fully assimilated, they remain distinct culturally, socially, economically.

    The only way for an immigrant to assimilate is if he/she arrives at a young age(no older than 18), alone, speaks fluent English, has high enough IQ to gain a STEM degree in a college in the US, gains citizenship/PR status on their own before intermarrying with a white native. If they marry someone back home, then they need to go back. The immigrant also must have limited contact with the family back home, rarely visits, and does not help anyone in the family immigrate to the US. The children who are 1/2 white will then become a lot more assimilated, and if they also intermarry with whites, then their 3/4 white children will have become wholly absorbed and assimilated.

    But chain migration, technology and air travels have made it much easier for immigrants today to keep in touch with their families back home, which makes assimilation near impossible. Which is why we need to end all immigration.

    And since Jia Lynn Yang was kind enough to inform us there is no difference between immigrants and natives, it must mean there is no difference between America and their native countries, which means there's really no more reason to immigrate.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Ancient Briton

    Native Anglosphericals tend to assimilate in my observation. I include myself in that comment.

  132. anon[133] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    If illegal immigrants do not pay their own way in terms of health care for themselves and their families, then this is largely a function of the way that health care in the US costs ten times as much as in most other countries.

    However, since their employers are profiting from their labor, this is just another example of privatizing profits and socializing losses.

    The solution is a universal health service paid for by payroll taxes for both employee and employer contributions, (like Social Security.) The self employed pay for both sides, of course. The wealthy who want a better service can also buy a la carte luxury health insurance plans as they desire.

    Replies: @anon

    If illegal immigrants do not pay their own way in terms of health care for themselves and their families, then this is largely a function of the way that health care in the US costs ten times as much as in most other countries.

    Maybe, maybe not, but who cares? Aside from one-note monomaniacs who recite DNCe talking points like an aging, demented parrot, I mean, who cares?

    Illegals use hospital ER’s for much of their care. They don’t pay, they are routinely indigent, so everyone else gets to chip in. No matter how the health care system is structured, illegal aliens are free-riders on everyone else.

    The same is true for school systems. Every public school in the US is required by law to take in children of illegals, and provide them with education. There is no way migrant agricultural workers pay enough taxes to offset that cost. They are free riders on the actual taxpayers, and the majority of their children never even get out of high school.

    Really, old boy, you shouldn’t try to shove your pet hobby into every convo. It’s just not a good look.

  133. Reading this article – more evil taunting and humiliation propaganda from a Tribe member. It’s so disgusting, the American MSM is strongly geared towards humiliating whites.

  134. @Anon

    ‘’So what difference is there between us, with our precious papers, and the people at our border who are dying to come in?” she asks, and then provides a three-word answer. “There is none.”
     
    Which must be why America is exactly like Asia, Africa, Latin America. So why are they all dying to come in again?

    Replies: @I. Racist, @Mr. XYZ

    Coz we got da magic dirt, of course! 😉

  135. @gabriel alberton
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    No, it’s pretty straightforward illegal immigrants are takers. They don’t remotely make enough to actually pay for their medical care, their families medical care, and the education of their kids.
     
    If it is straightforward, do you have sources that back up that assertion? Also, if making money is what matters, than illegal immigrants gotta be takers, as we all know they're paid pocket lint for their work (don't we?), but then doesn't it also mean Chinese and Indians and Jews are more makers than white gentiles in the US, as the former earn more?

    The illegal immigrant ended up better off, their employer got richer, and I end up paying dearly.
     
    Is it possible the employer got rich(er) because he is paying the illegal immigrant less than what their work is worth? It has been suggested they more often work in dangerous jobs than American-born workers. (Note this might mean comparing a Rodriguez born in Guatemala with a Gonzalez born in California)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831347/

    Of course, it is very much debatable if a job should pay more solely because it's riskier than others. I have my objections. I think writing on online forums should pay more. But that's just me...

    I will remark how almost always, virtually inevitably, the aggrieved party says they are obviously the victim. Both liberal spinsters and conservative old farts and libertarian independents alike do that if given the opportunity. It sure seems to never fail. That's what you're doing, just so there's no confusion of what I mean.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @Nicholas Stix

    “If it is straightforward, do you have sources that back up that assertion?”

    You’re kidding, right?

    If this were, oh, 1951, I might take you seriously. If you had any integrity, you’d be embarrassed to ask that question in the current year.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  136. @Franz
    @ben tillman


    Utterly ridicuolous.
     
    Not at all.

    Between the Great Immigration Pause of the 1920s and the free-for-all open borders that started with Lyndon, there was an employee-led "train-and-retain" bias in hiring that kept wages up there where even normal people could afford a house (eg).

    A granddad of mine was a boilermaker for a small-town laundry, ca. 1962. He wanted to do better by his family, so he told the laundry owner he was taking his skills to a nearby shipyard. Right away the owner talked it over, crunched some numbers, and gramps got a raise equal to the move.

    Employers had no choice if they wanted good people during these years. They couldn't hire foreign. They could not pick and choose from an endless stream of overqualified/underemployed youngsters. They either matched what the market paid or had to do without. How much Dorothy Day had to do with it is a toss up, but the effect was real.

    In '65 the rules were changed. Civil Rights by itself would have caused pain. Feminism by itself would have caused pain. But adding an open border created hell on Earth for the wage-earner and at the moment nobody is standing up for them.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks

    “But adding an open border created hell on Earth for the wage-earner and at the moment nobody is standing up for them.”

    Yup. The Democrats are all in for immigration, legal or not. Meanwhile, Trump promised massive deportations beginning “the first day” and has yet to deliver. So far, he’s not being held to account for breaking that promise, even thought Covid19 would provide perfect cover even against the most strident phony “racist” claims (by Democrats and Neo-Cons alike).

  137. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Citizenism never caught on because, like Libertarianism or Communism, it reduces humans to economic units, which is both abominable and, eventually, unworkable.

    A brilliant thinker once described race/ethnicity as an extended family. Citizenism asks me to put money ahead of my family. The Japanese would never let a million non-Japanese permanently move into their country, even if those immigrants improved the economic welfare of every ethnic Japanese citizen.

    Citizenism says that the Japanese should let them in. That alone shows the folly of it.

    Face it, Citizenism was always Steve's triple bank shot to slow/stop immigration and keep whites in control of the country in a way that was palatable to CivNat Republicans and the few remaining Dems who still cared about the working class. It was worth a try, but it failed.

    Regardless, that ship sailed long ago. Neither Citizenism nor Civic Nationalism are going to save the day. We're not voting our way out of this. The game already has turned tribal; it's just that whites aren't playing because they haven't realized the world that they grew up in no longer exists.

    The day whites start playing the tribal game, things will get very interesting. If whites refuse to play due to our genetics or indoctrination, well, we deserve to become the other tribes' helots.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    The Japanese are importing economically-beneficial non-ethnics, and globalization and open borders ideology also reduce people to economic units but have caught on very nicely indeed.

    Citizenism has failed to catch on because over half the political class benefits from undermining anything that might contribute to its development.

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