Closing Arguments, by Steve Sailer

Closing Arguments

Steve Sailer • November 15, 2021

• 295 Comments

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Ebony Obelisk says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:52 am GMT
Guilty

Full stop

He provoked

He initiated

He killed

He brought a gun

He murdered

Look at all the mainstream they agree he is guilty

That tells you all you need to know

• LOL: JimDandy, Polistra
• Troll: Dr. X, IHTG, magilla, Clyde
• Replies: @Boomthorkell
, @Hibernian
, @San Fernando Curt
, @Realist
, @Jus' Sayin'...
, @Martin Luther King
22pp22 says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:03 am GMT
What does it matter if the jury is terrorised?

• Agree: Verymuchalive, V. Hickel
• Replies: @Reg Cæsar
, @Ragno
, @Alden
Farenheit says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:05 am GMT
As show trails go, I’m just not feeling the enthusiasm…Now the production values and hype for the Chauvin Trial…THAT was a show trial!!

• Agree: San Fernando Curt, flyingtiger, The Anti-Gnostic, Bill
• Replies: @The Alarmist
Joe Stalin says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:12 am GMT

[1:15]

No matter what the jury does, to us normies, “… he was the bravest of them all…”

• Thanks: JimDandy
• Replies: @seminumerical
, @Nicholas Stix
, @Clifford Brown
Jonathan Mason says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:21 am GMT • 100 Words
Well, I have read the instructions to the jury, but it still comes down to whether the jury believed that Rittenhouse set out that evening with a loaded rifle hellbent on shooting people or whether he was acting in purely in self defense because the demonstrators/rioters had apparently decided to target him and kill him.

(It should be noted that no one else was shot or killed in Kenosha on the night in question, other than the people shot by Rittenhouse, but whether he was the only local boy who was targeted is not so clear.)

I don’t envy the jury having to wade though these instructions and come up with verdicts on several charges, but I am sure they will do their best to be fair. Ultimately, though, it is going to come down to whether they believed his account or not.

• Replies: @Hibernian
, @Alfa158
, @JimDandy
, @PhysicistDave
, @Paperback Writer
, @Jus' Sayin'...
Colin Wright says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 2:21 am GMT
On the one hand, I hope Rittenhouse is acquitted. He should be.

On the other hand, if he’s convicted, maybe it’ll help to get white America really fired up. We can always pardon him after we’ve taken power.

• Agree: usNthem
• LOL: Polistra, Hangnail Hans
• Replies: @Anonymous
D. K. says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:25 am GMT • 100 Words
REMINDER: THE LEGAL ARGUMENTS IN A CRIMINAL TRIAL ARE NOT EVIDENCE!

That said, the shamelessness of some of the prosecutors’ lies, during the closing arguments, exceeded even the feebleness of its fatuous arguments for Kyle Rittenhouse’s guilt. With the two lesser charges dismissed, any conviction will make him (yet another) American political prisoner.
John Milton’s Ghost says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:26 am GMT • 100 Words
On the merits of the case I don’t see how this gets brought to trial. This is clearer than Zimmerman, who was pretty handily acquitted. But we live in a woke age and there are a lot of pearl-clutching liberals who don’t want to be thought badly of, and hard lefties who need a human sacrifice for their Moloch. This is pretty much a Rorschach test on whether this nation deserves self government any more.

• Agree: The Last Real Calvinist, Old Prude, Ben tillman, Jus' Sayin'..., Bill Jones
Reg Cæsar says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:30 am GMT
@22pp22

What does it matter if the jury is terrorised?

The Minneapolis paper gave out enough information to identify the jurors Derek Chauvin faced, leaving out only the names.
Wilkey says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:33 am GMT • 100 Words
An interesting trial, but the best part may actually be the fact that 500 National Guard troops are on standby in case violence breaks out following the verdict. Which side are they expecting to riot if they don’t get their way?

To pretty much answer my own question, how quickly will the Guard stand down if Rittenhouse is convicted? How many liberals will complain about a “failure of democracy” if a jury of Kyle Rittenhouse’s peers find him not guilty? How many of them won’t refer to mass riots in the streets as a failure of democracy?

The riots that will follow a Rittenhouse acquittal will seal the Democratic Party’s doom in next year’s elections.

• Replies: @Neil Templeton
, @Reg Cæsar
, @Abolish_public_education
, @Hibernian
, @anon
obwandiyag says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:42 am GMT • 100 Words
I know. It was self-defense.

What I want to know is what some kid is doing running around with an AR-15 anywhere in the US.

AR-15s are like cannons. They don’t put holes in you. They tear you apart limb from limb. The bullet tumbles. That’s nasty shit. You go carrying that around, you mean to kill.

• Troll: Eric Novak, Tony massey, Clyde
• Replies: @Currahee
, @John Johnson
, @Jenner Ickham Errican
, @North Carolina Resident
, @Joe Stalin
, @RobinG
, @MarkinLA
, @Reg Cæsar
, @Dr. X
, @Boomthorkell
, @Twinkie
, @PhysicistDave
, @MLK
Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:44 am GMT
@Colin Wright
The communists will kill him in prison and the authorities will claim it was suicide.
Neil Templeton says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:44 am GMT
@Wilkey
Nobody’s going to riot, even if Kyle is acquitted. Getting colder now, with a strong breeze blowin’. Old Man Winter’s on his way. Grasshopper behavior strongly discouraged. For this lost cause, it’s not worth it.

• Replies: @AndrewR
, @Paperback Writer
Tony W says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:53 am GMT
Essentially, the rights to self-defense and to bear arms are totally vitiated if there is a conviction in this case. Of course, who and whom will continue to be relevant.
Reg Cæsar says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:55 am GMT • 100 Words
@Wilkey

The riots that will follow a Rittenhouse acquittal will seal the Democratic Party’s doom in next year’s elections.

Imagine what a successful Chauvin appeal would do.

However, it doesn’t look easy for the GOP to take the Senate. Which states are they going to flip? New Hampshire, Arizona, Georgia… maybe.

Perhaps posters of Rosenbaum or Huber paired with the Dem candidate, with the message that they are moral equals. They’ll squawk, but how can they answer?
Boomthorkell says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:57 am GMT
@Ebony Obelisk
Honestly, I appreciate your powerful sense of sarcasm. It does the world good and I love the finishing “MSM” touch.

It’s like a more literate version of Tiny Duck.

• Replies: @Alfa158
Che Blutarsky says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:01 am GMT
Let us not forget that this trial is actually about fundamental rights. The fundamental rights of every American. The fundamental right of every American to have their community burned down by the Democratic Party whenever they so choose to do so, that is.
Currahee says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:08 am GMT
@obwandiyag
You talk total nonsense.

• Agree: Colin Wright, seminumerical, Gordo, Tony massey
seminumerical says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:12 am GMT
@Joe Stalin
(The Man Who Shot) Liberty Valance was always on the radio in Canada in the early sixties.
Abolish_public_education says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:12 am GMT
@Wilkey
It’s hard for me to follow all this civil unrest. Where was the Guard when Kyle was running for cover?
Dr. X says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:14 am GMT • 200 Words
The prosecution is corrupt beyond belief. Grosskreutz was carrying a concealed handgun without a permit (was he charged for that? I don’t believe so) as an instigator in a riot, and he pulled it on a prostrate Rittenhouse antecedent to being shot.

Rittenhouse was charged with carrying a “short-barreled rifle” that clearly did not meet the legal definition of such a weapon upon the most basic and cursory examination and the charge was dismissed by the judge in literally seconds. They used a last-minute “artificially enhanced” FBI drone photo that was not admitted in discovery and in my view should never have been allowed in court.

And the ADA, who looks every bit the asshole that he is, tried to prejudice the jury by impugning Rittenhouse’s Fifth Amendment rights in open court and was smacked down like no lawyer I have ever seen.

The grounds clearly exist for a mistrial with prejudice. If Rittenhouse is convicted of anything, it is a clear sign that the courts are 100% rigged Stalinist show courts… and that no white man should ever expect to “win” in court ever again, and consequently no white man should never let himself be taken alive.

• Agree: John Regan
• Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
• Replies: @Mr. Anon
, @EdwardM
Richard S says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:18 am GMT • 200 Words

Judge: I think I’m gonna tell the jury that Mrs Ziminsky would have been available for call up, to be called by either party. Ok?

Prosecution: Fine

Defence: Fine

Judge: Oh man! I got out of it alive!

Prosecution: *Face muscle spasms*

Defence: *Chuckles*

The judge, it seems to me, has not been entirely emotionally unbiased. Whether that’s a result of the sheer foolishness of the prosecution’s presentation, I don’t know.

The reasonable vocal tone of the DA stands in remarkable contrast to his failure to present a plausible case.

Richards, the hickier of the defence attorneys, did well with his non verbal communication and subtle hints about the character of the first of the anarchist criminals who stopped Rittenhouse’s bullets.

I’m expecting an acquittal and for minimum social-political ramifications because this was ultimately just Flyover Folk (the uniformity of the Krautliche Familiennamen in this case has been a point I’ve pondered) fighting each other and can’t reasonably be spun to suit an anti-American agenda.

• Replies: @AndrewR
Buffalo Joe says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:22 am GMT
Hoping that the jurors listened to the “facts” that were presented and make their decision based solely on that, but knowing that each juror is probably afraid for their life. Cases tried in the MSM are the death of justice.
Frank McGar says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:24 am GMT
Even if he’s acquitted, the fact that this even went to trial feels like a loss.

• Agree: Nimrod, Buzz Mohawk, Kylie, Gordo, William Badwhite
• Replies: @AndrewR
John Johnson says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:28 am GMT • 200 Words
@obwandiyag
AR-15s are like cannons. They don’t put holes in you. They tear you apart limb from limb. The bullet tumbles. That’s nasty shit. You go carrying that around, you mean to kill.

Do you think he should have had a 9mm? Joseph Rosenbaum would have taken a couple to the chest anyways.

AR-15s are more powerful but handguns are much harder to shoot. With a 9mm the skateboarder would have had a better chance of surviving but the odds of missing and hitting a bystander would have gone up.

Any modern handgun is nasty close up. When you read about Blacks surviving 5 rounds of 9mm those are cases where they were farther away and the perp was using cheap ball ammo. You are in serious trouble if you take a modern 9mm hollow point to the chest. So taking an AR can make a lot of sense and doesn’t mean you are looking to kill.

I think the lessons are:
1. Don’t waste your time trying to defend a Democrat’s car lot
2. Don’t charge someone that has an AR15

• Replies: @Twinkie
, @Muggles
, @Bill Jones
, @Expletive Deleted
Bragadocious says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:30 am GMT • 100 Words
Kyle’s innocent but I don’t think this is the slam dunk people think it is. Binger was pretty effective today, lying constantly of course but still effective. Also, the prosecution after its closing argument got to rebut the defense’s closing argument which struck me as a huge advantage.

I’m disappointed that the judge ruled out discussion of Rosenbaum’s criminal history, the child rapes, the prison time. His dangerousness was a major point of discussion today, with the prosecution likening him to a harmless yapping dog, basically saying, Kyle shot a Pomeranian.

Anyone who’s done serious time in a prison yard is by definition dangerous, in my view.

• Agree: Paperback Writer
• Replies: @JimB
Hibernian says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:38 am GMT
@Ebony Obelisk
Dr. X, don’t you recognize the sarcasm?
John Johnson says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:39 am GMT • 100 Words
Kyle is going to walk.

The option of lesser charges don’t mean anything if he followed the law.

The MSM will go into meltdown but they don’t get to pick the laws. There is no “brought a scary looking gun to a riot” charge. Joy Behar’s emotions and the laws are completely separate matters.

It was over when Gaige admitted that Kyle only shot him after he aimed the gun. The skateboarder attacked him with a dangerous weapon amid a mob fury. The child molester is on video charging him.

They don’t even have the weapons charge after the defense pointed out that the statute isn’t clear.

• Replies: @Hibernian
, @Bizarro World Observer
Dr. Tapioca says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:40 am GMT • 100 Words
I haven’t heard the jury instructions, but the case will come down, not to self defense, but which side bears the burden of persuasion (not production) as to self-defense under WI law.

Many states say that defense bears the burden of production, to at least show something that a jury could possibly believe it would be self defense, then the burden shifts to the state to DISPROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant acted in self-defense. If that is the law in WI he walks.

But if WI employs some other burden of persuasion, ala State has to disprove by preponderance, or defense has to prove by preponderance or any higher degree, then a good prediction is he will be guilty.

• Replies: @James B. Shearer
, @Jim Bob Lassiter
Hibernian says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:44 am GMT • 100 Words
@Jonathan Mason
“…it still comes down to whether the jury believed that Rittenhouse set out that evening with a loaded rifle hellbent on shooting people or whether he was acting in purely in self defense because the demonstrators/rioters had apparently decided to target him and kill him.”

Shades of gray mean the case is decided in favor of the defendant. That’s one of those things we got from you guys that we’ve taken more seriously than you have. Thus resulting in that little dustup of 1776-83.

• Agree: PhysicistDave
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:44 am GMT
@obwandiyag

They tear you apart limb from limb.

Sequentially, or all at once?
North Carolina Resident says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:46 am GMT
@obwandiyag
He is old enough to buy a rifle but too young to buy a handgun.

• Agree: Ben tillman
Hibernian says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:46 am GMT
@Wilkey

Which side are they expecting to riot if they don’t get their way?

No prizes for guessing.

• LOL: seminumerical, AndrewR
Whiskey says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 3:46 am GMT • 300 Words
Anti-Fa has threatened the judge and the jury so Rittenhouse is convicted in the Stalinist Show Trial. Anyone who thinks that fairness, justice, and impartiality are part of the justice system are fooling themselves. The attorneys who set a police car on fire got probation, while Jan 6 people have not even been tried. While being held in solitary confinement and being beaten regularly by guards and denied medical treatment.

The US is approximately like the late USSR. It really is and there is no denying it. Is Rittenhouse factually innocent? Of course. But the state called heroes: A. a Child Molestor who molested his nephews ages 5-11, B. A convicted domestic abuser who liked to beat up his girlfriend Ike Turner style, C. a convicted burglar who tried to strangle relatives. This is who they went to bat for. Along with Jacob Blake and George Floyd.

“That tells you something right there.” That the State and Elites HATE HATE HATE you (for being White) and want you DEAD DEAD DEAD. That’s it. That’s all there is to know.

Facts, logic, reason don’t matter. Your skin color is your uniform. Anti-Fa is the STATE. The State is Anti-Fa. They have the right to beat you, they have the right to set your house on fire, they have the right to kill you, loot your property. And anything you do to stop them is a crime. In fact, for the State your very existence itself is a crime. You should take that to heart in everything you do, and be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves.

• Agree: AndrewR, Hangnail Hans, Ben tillman, Tex
• Replies: @kaganovitch
, @Hibernian
, @Spud Boy
Intelligent Dasein says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:48 am GMT • 100 Words
I’m not following the case so I won’t comment about that, but I did want to toss in this:

Kyle Rittenhouse bears a strong physical resemblance to James Fields. They’re both short, dumpy, dorky looking dudes with broad hips, narrow shoulders, neotenous facial features, chestnut pompadours. Is there something particular about this physiognomy that tends to get itself into trouble with woke mobs?

• Replies: @Eric Novak
, @S. Anonyia
, @John Johnson
, @Tony massey
, @Alec Leamas (working from home)
, @Roger
Daniel Williams says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:50 am GMT
If Kyle walks, there won’t be any riots. The lesson will be: rioting has dangerous consequences.

It would be very good if this lesson cascaded thru our society.
Joe Stalin says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:51 am GMT • 200 Words
@obwandiyag

What I want to know is what some kid is doing running around with an AR-15 anywhere in the US.

The USA considers having an armed citizenry so important that the US government sanctions marksmanship training with AR-15s.

That’s what the “well-regulated” part of the Second Amendment is about.

The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is a national organization dedicated to training and educating U. S. citizens in responsible uses of firearms and airguns through gun safety training, marksmanship training and competitions. The CMP is a federally chartered 501 (c) (3) corporation that places its highest priority on serving youth through gun safety and marksmanship activities that encourage personal growth and build life skills. Visit http://www.TheCMP.org for more detailed information about the CMP and its programs.

https://thecmp.org/

AR-15s are like cannons. They don’t put holes in you. They tear you apart limb from limb. The bullet tumbles. That’s nasty shit. You go carrying that around, you mean to kill.

16″ barrel AR-15s are not like cannons.
RobinG says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:58 am GMT
@obwandiyag

They tear you apart limb from limb. … You go carrying that around, you mean to kill.

And yet, he didn’t kill Grosskreutz, did he?

• Replies: @Kronos
Alfa158 says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:12 am GMT • 100 Words
@Jonathan Mason
Ultimately it comes down to two things:
1. Whether the jury believes the objective evidence which shows – Rittenhouse not shooting anybody for just rioting – trying to retreat – trying to go to the police who per their orders didn’t want to get involved and – not pointing his rifle at anyone or shooting anybody until he was physically attacked.
2. To what extent the jurors realize that if they acquit Rittenhouse a large number of people who have virtual legal immunity are going to be hunting them.

• Agree: Polistra, Hangnail Hans
• Replies: @Jehu
, @Hibernian
, @Expletive Deleted
Dan says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:18 am GMT
Pointing a rifle at the gallery. Keeping it classy. Let’s get Alec Baldwin to play the ADA in the movie.

• Agree: Hangnail Hans
• Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Alfa158 says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:21 am GMT
@Boomthorkell
That is Tiny Duck. In his TD sock puppet persona he inserts weird malapropisms to signal he is just having fun.
anon[318] • Disclaimer says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:24 am GMT • 200 Words
The gun charge and curfew charges were dropped. The prosecutors throwing in lesser charges is an indication they recognize the first degree murder charge is unsupported. The jury can only convict if self defense is tossed out by if finding that Rittenhouse “provoked” the attack.

Gaige Grosskreutz approached Rittenhouse pointing a gun.

The victims were rioters. Worst case, it only takes one juror.

Blacks don’t much care if that three whites were shot.

It is very believable that Rittenhouse was trying to Surender to police when he was confronted.

I’m already seeing the MSM blaming the judge and systemic racism. And the national guard will prevent a small group from provoking riots.

The George Floyd hysteria is done. A “high school” shooting in Aurora, CO was announced today, with 5 shot, 0 killed. Nothing yet about race, but it was called a ‘drive by’ and a mention of “gangs”. People are tired of this shit. Salior’s Law…We know they are black.

Biden waited too long to pass the mega spending bill. It only had any energy as a quasi Covid stimulus, but now inflation is too big to get much done. The Democrats won’t let go of the Bernie agenda in time. They will barely eke out something at the last nano-second.
Jehu says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:24 am GMT
@Alfa158
Hung jury is pretty likely for reason 2. I don’t think anyone really believes Kyle went there planning to kill random rioters.
Peterike says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:28 am GMT
A total retard would understand Rittenhouse is innocent. A current year American jury could go either way.

• Agree: Achmed E. Newman
• Replies: @P. Cleburne
Buzz Mohawk says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:30 am GMT • 100 Words

Whaddaya think?

Whadda I think? I think it is obvious that Kyle Rittenhouse is Not Guilty on all counts, but I am not on the jury.

What I am really thinking is, “What will Steve’s Tuesday Taki’s article be about?”

I have to give young Kyle an award for stupidity for showing up at a riot with a rifle. Did he not think this thing through? Yes, he is kind of a hero, but kind of a fool too.

Not guilty, but stupid.

Folks, this kid is not the “man” you want to rally around. I pray he will be free, but we need better and smarter.

• Agree: Polistra, Kratoklastes, Spud Boy
• Replies: @Dmon
, @Pericles
, @Expletive Deleted
, @The Anti-Gnostic
, @Paperback Writer
MarkinLA says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:36 am GMT
@obwandiyag
You go carrying that around, you mean to kill.

Actually, from what I have read about the round, you mean to wound because a wounded soldier puts more people out of action on the battlefield as he has to be transported back to the field hospital.

• Disagree: Catdog
Eric Novak says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:38 am GMT • 100 Words
@Intelligent Dasein
Did I hear the kid is 5’3”? Steve? Certainly, that he comes from a divorced home has something to do with his inner father figure, as C.G. Jung would point out. Some boys from broken homes or born to single mothers don’t become delinquents, but act as their own male disciplinarian and hero figure.

• Agree: Boomthorkell
• Replies: @Expletive Deleted
Reg Cæsar says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:38 am GMT • 200 Words
@obwandiyag

AR-15s are like cannons. They don’t put holes in you. They tear you apart limb from limb. The bullet tumbles. That’s nasty 🪠.

Who was torn “apart limb from limb”?

You go carrying that around, you mean to kill.

That’s what he was given. He didn’t choose it. He was also quite judicious in its eventual use.

In other words, he is a more responsible man than you, Chief Aztek. I’d buy him a drink if it were legal.

As it once was, when crossing the Illinois-Wisconsin border actually meant something:

[MORE]

• Replies: @Rob McX
JimB says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:41 am GMT
@Bragadocious

Anyone who’s done serious time in a prison yard is by definition dangerous, in my view.

Rosenbaum served time for sodomizing five young boys. In prison, I’m betting he was returned the favor on a nightly basis. He would have been a recidivist for sure so I think Kyle did a favor for some children, somewhere.
anon[276] • Disclaimer says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:49 am GMT
@Wilkey
Pro tip: blacks only riot when they feel fellow blacks were wronged.

The alleged victims here were three white guys… ergo, there will be no rioting regardless of verdict.

• Replies: @Hangnail Hans
, @PhysicistDave
Dr. X says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:55 am GMT • 100 Words
@obwandiyag

AR-15s are like cannons. They don’t put holes in you. They tear you apart limb from limb. The bullet tumbles. That’s nasty shit. You go carrying that around, you mean to kill.

As someone who has fired well over 20,000 rounds through an AR-15, I can state with absolute authority that you have no idea WTF you’re talking about.

But if you were right, then logically there would be no reason whatsoever for any domestic law enforcement officer to ever possess any AR-15 under any circumstances… right?

• Agree: Jim Christian
Rob McX says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:56 am GMT
@Reg Cæsar
I’m trying to figure out what these maps mean, so I ran them through Google Images. The results I get are “US states GDP map”, “Drinking age by state” and “The best and worst states for surviving a zombie apocalypse”.

• Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Reg Cæsar says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:00 am GMT • 100 Words
@Dan

Pointing a rifle at the gallery. Keeping it classy. Let’s get Alec Baldwin to play the ADA in the movie.

Does Der Bingerl have a carry permit? This should be enough to cancel it. At least in a relatively sane state like Wisconsin. Mileage may vary near salt water.

• Replies: @Rob McX
, @Clifford Brown
S. Anonyia says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:01 am GMT • 100 Words
@Intelligent Dasein
They don’t look alike at all aside from both being chunky and having brown hair. Fields looks inbred, reminds me of the people who go to the hill churches that speak in tongues. Even has the creepy glasses that change color with the light. Rittenhouse just looks like some over eager suburban boy scout from anywheresville USA. His more sympathetic and normal appearance will probably help him in the trial.

• Replies: @P. Cleburne
Buzz Mohawk says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:01 am GMT • 100 Words
One thing needs to be said: There is no way any jury in this case could be normal.

Think about what happens in jury selection. For a big case like this, not only is there voir dire, but also probably a lengthy questionnaire and who knows what else. At some point, probably at many points, each potential juror will be asked questions to determine if he already has an opinion about this case.

If it were me, I would answer that Rittenhouse was defending himself, obviously, and that he has the right to bear arms and defend himself. I would be off the jury — even though the right thing for any juror to do is to assume innocence and require the prosecution to prove guilt and change one’s mind. Every time, this is the right attitude.

But what happens is that everyone who answers honestly that he either thinks the defendant is innocent or guilty is off the jury. So, you end up with jurors who either are lying or have no opinion about what happened. Who, tell me, are those people?

I would hate to have my future in the hands of such NPCs or lying sack of shit pretend NPCs.

• Replies: @Cortes
James B. Shearer says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:03 am GMT
@Dr. Tapioca
“… If that is the law in WI he walks.”

That is the law in every state (Ohio used to be different).

• Replies: @Paperback Writer
Reg Cæsar says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:05 am GMT
@Rob McX
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_minimum_purchase_age_by_state

The important point is that Kenosha was freer than nearby Antioch, and worth a trip. If somebody dies at the “blood border”, blame the Suckers, not the Badgers.

• Disagree: Corvinus
• Thanks: Rob McX
Boomthorkell says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:09 am GMT
@obwandiyag
And a damn fine thing, too!

You want a place without guns? Move to Japan, boyo.
Rob McX says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:12 am GMT
@Reg Cæsar
Knowledge of basic firearms safety is not a qualification for being a US Senator, or Vice President.
Dmon says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:15 am GMT • 100 Words
@Buzz Mohawk
He is exactly the man we want to rally around. All the smarter and better people were wringing their hands and complaining about antifa brownshirts running wild, or arguing on the internet, or carrying clever signs at pointless rallies. He went out and protected the peace in accordance with the very definition of sovereignty of the people and “a well regulated militia”. To whom exactly do you consider the constitution allocates the right and duty to defend civil society? The country was founded on the basis of its’ citizens self-organizing to do what is necessary. Kyle Rittenhouse is the very exemplar of the citizen soldier, and we should rally around him at all costs. Unless you are expecting the imminent arrival of Jesus Christ, nobody perfect is coming along. And there are no more hills left.

• Agree: Rob McX, Mr. Anon, AndrewR, Somsel, Redneck farmer, Ben tillman, Achmed E. Newman, Catdog
• Thanks: Tony massey, John Regan
• Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
, @Buzz Mohawk
, @John Johnson
, @Nicholas Stix
Nimrod says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:29 am GMT
KR walks.

The prosecution absolutely imploded.
Enemy of Earth says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:32 am GMT • 100 Words
The cynic in me thinks there’s no way the state of Wisconsin will let him be acquitted. The powers that be are afraid of riots, excuse me, peaceful protests if he is acquitted. And the jurors are probably terrified they’ll be outed. But I am trying to be optimistic that justice, real justice, will prevail.

• Agree: PhysicistDave
anon[318] • Disclaimer says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:38 am GMT
He isn’t the most photogenic kid.

Casey Anthony, who was guilty as hell of something involving her dead kid, got off because she had a decent figure and photogenic tits.

So there is that.

Even cops don’t bring loaded guns for riot control. So yea, risking your life for the property of a sleazy used car dealer for free is naive as hell.

Maybe that helps him. Stupid isn’t murder.

• Replies: @P. Cleburne
, @Reg Cæsar
Buzz Mohawk says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:44 am GMT
@Dmon
You do make a good point, and it certainly is open for discussion. Do you see this as a spark, a cause célèbre, like the Boston Massacre but sort of in reverse?

• Replies: @Dmon
, @Brutusale
Mr. Anon says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:46 am GMT • 100 Words
@Dr. X

And the ADA, who looks every bit the asshole that he is, tried to prejudice the jury by impugning Rittenhouse’s Fifth Amendment rights in open court and was smacked down like no lawyer I have ever seen.

He also swept the jury with Rittenhouse’s AR-15 (Alec Baldwin style) while denouncing anyone who would point a rifle at someone, like………………… you know, the prosecutor himself just did.

• Replies: @PhysicistDave
, @Achmed E. Newman
AndrewR says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:49 am GMT
@Neil Templeton
Tomorrow and Wednesday will be relatively warm. And we all know that riots in this country aren’t confined to the actual cities where alleged injustices have occurred. What percentage of the Summer of George Floyd riot damage was in Minneapolis? I would guess less than a quarter.
Mr. Anon says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:50 am GMT • 100 Words
If there is any rioting in the wake of the verdict, I expect it will be mostly white antifa a**holes doing it. I don’t see black people getting exercised by a white boy who shot three other white boys. Unless of course, they buy the media’s deceitful insinuations that Rittenhouse was randomly shooting black people.

• Agree: Polistra
AndrewR says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:53 am GMT
@Richard S
Pretty sure the “victims” were all small hats, “flyover” or not. And metro Chicago doesn’t really count as “flyover country” anyway

• Replies: @Bill
AndrewR says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:55 am GMT
@Frank McGar
Indeed. The process is the punishment. And I sincerely fear for Kyle’s safety, although admittedly the boy is a really good shot.
JimDandy says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:05 am GMT
@Jonathan Mason
I’ve noticed that among commenters here, the closer their connection to Israel, the more conflicted they are about Kyle. Funny, eh?

• Thanks: Richard B
• Replies: @kaganovitch
San Fernando Curt says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:05 am GMT
@Ebony Obelisk
When the mainstream tells me everything I need to know, I will be as dumb as you.

• LOL: Rob McX
Buzz Mohawk says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:15 am GMT • 200 Words
@Dmon
This would make sense if Kyle had indeed been part of “a well regulated militia,” and I wish he had been.

The famous Rooftop Koreans were such. Grouped together from a strategically advantageous position, they made it obvious to any would-be looters or rioters that hoodlums would end up losing. Sort of how Henry Knox and his men positioned their canon from Upstate New York on a hill pointing down at Boston. The British were instantly beaten without a ball being fired at them.

Poor, young Kyle put himself alone with a rifle in the middle of a mob of crazy people. He virtually guaranteed that he would eventually have to shoot somebody who would inevitably come at him. He put himself in an almost impossible position. Had he been part of “a well-regulated militia” things might have gone differently.

However, I don’t much believe that the mob would have behaved any better in that alternative situation. Maybe there would have been even more dead leftists — good. Maybe that’s the next step, groups with strategic advantage, rather than 17-year old lone heroes surrounded by feral dogs they have no choice but to shoot.

• Replies: @Dmon
, @Jenner Ickham Errican
Hangnail Hans says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:16 am GMT
@anon

Pro tip: blacks only riot when they feel fellow blacks were wronged.

Yeah, but so-called ‘antifa’ riot whenever they feel like it, knowing that the authorities and the major media have their back.
John Johnson says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:21 am GMT
@Intelligent Dasein
Is there something particular about this physiognomy that tends to get itself into trouble with woke mobs?

Lack of feeling masculine + lack of a strong male influence

Recipe for reckless behavior.
Nicholas Stix says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 6:22 am GMT
@Joe Stalin
The only modern figure I can think of to compare Kyle Rittenhouse to, would be Audie Murphy.

• Replies: @JimDandy
, @duncsbaby
Cortes says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:23 am GMT • 100 Words
@Buzz Mohawk
Great points.

“Peers” ought to mean simply ordinary citizens, without sifting out potential jurors who have working brains. Too much effort is made bending over backwards to protect the “rights” of thugs and sociopaths and the results are (1) hopelessly skewed juries weighted towards cardigan-wearing retirees and (2) a dripping roast of middle class welfare for legal aid (public defender) lawyers.

• Replies: @John Johnson
Dmon says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:24 am GMT • 100 Words
@Buzz Mohawk
If he is convicted, I would hope it has a Boston Massacre type impact (which would indicate there is still a spark of life in the Republic). A murder conviction would be the ultimate message from the New World Order of what they have in store for us Former People. It would leave no room for doubt or hope, and would force everyone off the fence one way or another. I’m not exactly looking forward to such a situation, but we’ve kept retreating to keep the peace, and here we are. The other side is willing to use the pointless death of a drug-addicted armed robber/porn star as an excuse to upend the entire world, and they’re not looking for a negotiated peace.
Clifford Brown says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:27 am GMT
@Joe Stalin
PhysicistDave says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:28 am GMT • 300 Words
@Jonathan Mason
Jonathan Mason wrote:

I don’t envy the jury having to wade though these instructions and come up with verdicts on several charges, but I am sure they will do their best to be fair.

They have been threatened. They are afraid. It will take courage to do the right thing. I hope they will, but, believe me, courage has become a rather rare commodity in the United States of America.

It has reached the point where people who take a risk to do the right thing are viewed as foolish — or outright evil — for taking a risk just because it is right.

I assure you that I keep hearing things along the lines of “Rittenhouse was just wrong to be there because it was risky.”

JM also wrote:

It should be noted that no one else was shot or killed in Kenosha on the night in question, other than the people shot by Rittenhouse, but whether he was the only local boy who was targeted is not so clear.

Why on earth would that matter???

I know a woman who was raped some years ago. I do not know whether or not she was the only woman raped that day or that week in that neighborhood or in that city. Who cares? The issue is that she was raped.

Similarly, the evidence proves that one guy aimed a loaded gun at Rittenhouse (the guy confessed under oath), one guy tried to take Rittenhouse’s gun away from Rittenhouse, and one guy banged Rittenhouse with a skateboard.

Maybe these guys only picked on Rittenhouse, say, because he does look awfully young. Or maybe they did it to a whole lot of people.

Doesn’t matter. Under American law, in all the states I know of, he had a right to kill them.

And, thankfully, he did kill two of them.

And so the world is a better place.

• Agree: Richard B
• Replies: @Dr. DoomNGloom
, @Richard B
Clifford Brown says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:31 am GMT
@Reg Cæsar
Dick Tracy Vibes….
PhysicistDave says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:32 am GMT • 100 Words
@anon
anon[276] wrote:

Pro tip: blacks only riot when they feel fellow blacks were wronged.

Or when they think they can loot the local liquor or electronics store.

Please note: I am not claiming most Blacks want to loot.

I am merely pointing out that looters are motivated by a somewhat more elementary motive than a thirst for justice

I.e., a thirst for loot.

And then there are those people who just like seeing something burn.
PhysicistDave says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:40 am GMT • 100 Words
@Mr. Anon
Mr. Anon wrote:

{Prosecutor Tomas Binger] also swept the jury with Rittenhouse’s AR-15 (Alec Baldwin style) while denouncing anyone who would point a rifle at someone, like………………… you know, the prosecutor himself just did.

Am I the only person who noticed that Binger resembles Will Ferrell playing someone who is psycho?

Of course, Ferrell comes across as more masculine than Binger, even when Ferrell was playing the clueless fellow in Elf.

There is something very, very wrong with Tom Binger.

• Agree: kaganovitch, V. Hickel
• Replies: @Reg Cæsar
, @Kronos
Dmon says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:55 am GMT • 200 Words
@Buzz Mohawk
Antifa tactics are comparable to Irregulars or Nomad Cavalry – they harass, but they don’t press the attack unless they’re absolutely sure of winning. Like the Mongols, they’re pretty good at culling small groups of the enemy out of formation and swarming them. In areas where they don’t have the politicians in their pockets (so locals can actually put up some opposition), they don’t accomplish much. Antifa showed up in force in Torrance, CA last year to sack the Del Amo mall. Torrance PD parked school buses and dump trucks around the perimeter, and made a show of force. Antifa basically milled around, acted like juvenile assholes and left. If allowed to, the local citizenry could easily progress to flank attacks, raids on the Antifa supply chain (they have to park their vehicles and mobile kitchens somewhere), etc. Antifa needs a conviction of Rittenhouse, because they cannot allow anyone to get the idea that they can be resisted successfully. If Kyle is acquitted, there will be some combination of rioting in places like Portland, massive MSM outcry, and a huge push by the Biden “administration” for draconian UK-style laws prohibiting self defense, not to mention the usual double jeopardy prosecution for violating the pedo’s “civil right” to sodomize minors.

• Agree: PhysicistDave
• Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
• Replies: @RobinG
, @John Johnson
, @Achmed E. Newman
, @ic1000
, @Corn
CW Acumen says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:06 am GMT • 100 Words
36 pages of instructions for the jury to read and comprehend? That is what the court deems is required for a fair trial. After 2 weeks of dull and repetitive testimony this could be considered torture. They might eschew that nonsense(tl:dr) and vote by what their gut tells them. If so, will those voting to send a kid to jail for the rest of his life be able to justify their vote, if others disagree?

I can’t see a riot w\o the black element. They are a miracle of destructive evolution. Hating what they see in the mirror, yet with the ability to believe the mirror is a liar. They have no dog in this fight.
John Johnson says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:10 am GMT • 100 Words
@Dmon
I would have wanted Kyle to stay home because I like Kyle.

I don’t want to see a 17 year old with guts get raped in prison over protecting a car lot in a Democrat city.

He is 5’8 and has soft features. Does he look like a street fighter? No. The liberal establishment is clamoring for him to be tossed in general population. Horrible.

Yea he took out a couple street dregs but that means nothing to clown town. Not a damn thing. They have plenty of replacements. Any pity shown is merely an act. They don’t care about Whites on the streets and that includes their own.

Using violence against clown world is futile. Their weakness is in their lies.

• Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
John Johnson says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:32 am GMT • 100 Words
@Cortes
Too much effort is made bending over backwards to protect the “rights” of thugs and sociopaths and the results are (1) hopelessly skewed juries weighted towards cardigan-wearing retirees and (2) a dripping roast of middle class welfare for legal aid (public defender) lawyers.

Also who shows up for jury duty:

(3) the unemployed
(4) people with jobs that are boring or low wage
(5) students with majors that allow for a lot of free time (liberal arts)
(6) people without kids

Gee whiz which persuasion do these groups run

• Agree: Ben tillman, Sean, Cortes
P. Cleburne says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:45 am GMT
@Peterike
So true. Dumbed down, perpetually adolescent, hyper emotional, consumers.
P. Cleburne says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:49 am GMT
@S. Anonyia
Your negative descriptions of others is very revealing. A wiser person would keep those biases to himself.

• Replies: @S. Anonyia
Twinkie says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:56 am GMT • 1,200 Words
@obwandiyag

AR-15s are like cannons. They don’t put holes in you. They tear you apart limb from limb. The bullet tumbles. That’s nasty shit.

This is one of the most idiotic things I’ve read on Unz and I ‘ve read quite a few idiotic things here over the years. Your ignorance takes the cake. You have not even a little clue what “tumbling” means in this context.

AR-15 (or the military select-fire version, the M-16) chambers a NATO cartridge 5.56x45mm (which is very similar to its sporting equivalent .223 Remington). Read about it and educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO

The cartridge has been subject to intense criticism and debate ever since the U.S. military adopted it in favor over the older 7.62x51mm in its main infantry rifle:

There has been much debate of the allegedly poor performance of the bullet on target in regard to stopping power, lethality, and range. Some of this criticism has been used to advocate an intermediate-sized cartridge between the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO sizes[39] while criticisms of poor barrier penetration, and accuracy have been used to support the M855A1 EPR round.[4] Arguably, the criticisms about range, accuracy and lethality are related to the change in barrel length and twist between the M16 and M4. The earlier 5.56 rounds (M855/SS109 and the original M193) were optimized for a 20-inch (51 cm) barrel with a 1:12 twist. The shorter 14.5-inch (37 cm) barrel of the M4 carbine (with a 1:7 twist) generates lower muzzle velocity, reducing the likelihood that the bullet will upset (yaw, fragment, or expand) in the target and resulting in less significant wounds.

Combat operations the past few months have again highlighted terminal performance deficiencies with 5.56x45mm 62 gr. M855 FMJ. These problems have primarily been manifested as inadequate incapacitation of enemy forces despite their being hit multiple times by M855 bullets. These failures appear to be associated with the bullets exiting the body of the enemy soldier without yawing or fragmenting. This failure to yaw and fragment can be caused by reduced impact velocities as when fired from short barrel weapons or when the range increases. It can also occur when the bullets pass through only minimal tissue, such as a limb or the chest of a thin, malnourished individual, as the bullet may exit the body before it has a chance to yaw and fragment. In addition, bullets of the SS109/M855 type are manufactured by many countries in numerous production plants. Although all SS109/M855 types must be 62 gr. FMJ bullets constructed with a steel penetrator in the nose, the composition, thickness, and relative weights of the jackets, penetrators, and cores are quite variable, as are the types and position of the cannelures. Because of the significant differences in construction between bullets within the SS109/M855 category, terminal performance is quite variable—with differences noted in yaw, fragmentation, and penetration depths.[40]

If 5.56 mm bullets fail to upset (yaw, fragment, or deform) within tissue, the results are less significant wounds that may not cause adequate blood loss or damage to immediately stop the target’s attack or advances . This is true for all 5.56×45mm bullets, including both military FMJ and OTM (open tip match) and civilian JHP/JSP designs used in law enforcement. As expected, with decreased wounding effects, rapid incapacitation is unlikely: enemy soldiers may continue to pose a threat to friendly forces and violent suspects can remain a danger to law enforcement personnel and the public. This failure of 5.56×45mm NATO bullets to yaw can be caused by reduced impact velocities as when fired from short-barreled weapons or when the range to the target increases. Failure to yaw and fragment can also occur when the bullets pass through only minimal tissue, such as a limb or the chest of a thin, small statured individual, as the bullet may exit the body before it has a chance to yaw and fragment. Two other yaw issues: Angle-of-Attack (AOA) variations between different projectiles, even within the same lot of ammo, as well as Fleet Yaw variations between different rifles, were elucidated in 2006 by the Joint Service Wound Ballistic Integrated Product Team (JSWB-IPT), which included experts from the military law enforcement user community, trauma surgeons, aero ballisticians, weapon and munitions engineers, and other scientific specialists. These yaw issues were most noticeable at close ranges and were more prevalent with certain calibers and bullet styles—the most susceptible being 5.56×45mm NATO FMJ ammunition like SS109/M855 and M193.

— Dr. Martin Fackler[41]

The 5.56×45mm NATO standard SS109/M855 cartridge was designed for maximum performance when fired from a 508 mm (20.0 in) long barrel, as was the original 5.56 mm M193 cartridge. Experiments with longer length barrels up to 610 mm (24.0 in) resulted in no improvement or a decrease in muzzle velocities for the SS109/M855 cartridge. Shorter barrels produce a greater flash and noise signature, and the addition of a suppressor to a short barreled AR family rifle can make it unreliable, as the reduced time for the propellant to burn in the barrel and higher muzzle pressure levels at the suppressor entrance can cause faster cycling and feeding issues. Unless the gas port can be regulated or adjusted for higher pressures, suppressors for short barreled 5.56×45mm NATO firearms must be larger and heavier than models for standard length rifles to function reliably. SS109/M855 cartridges fired from barrels under about 254 mm (10.0 in) in length do not have enough muzzle velocity energy to cause extreme damage that occurs only at terminal velocities of over 750 m/s (2,500 ft/s) on impact, reducing the wounding capacity.[42][43]

Compared to larger calibers, proponents of the 5.56×45mm NATO round contend that animal studies of the wounding effects of the 5.56×45mm NATO round versus the 7.62×39mm have found that the 5.56×45mm NATO round is more damaging, due to the post-impact behavior of the 5.56 mm projectile resulting in greater cavitation of soft tissues.[44] The US Army contended in 2003 that the lack of close range lethality of the 5.56×45mm NATO was more a matter of perception than fact. With controlled pairs and good shot placement to the head and chest, the target was usually defeated without issue. The majority of failures were the result of hitting the target in non-vital areas such as extremities. However, a minority of failures occurred in spite of multiple hits to the chest.[45]

Some have contended that shot placement is the most important parameter in determining the lethality of a bullet. Difficulty with the 5.56×45mm NATO at long ranges has been attributed to training;[46] Swedish ISAF units relied on .50 BMG heavy machine guns for long-range shooting due to resilience to factors such as range and wind drift. Underperformance is thus attributed to errors in range and wind estimation, target lead, firing position, and stress under fire, factors that can be resolved through training.[47][46]

Compared to the main battle rifle cartridges of yesteryears (e.g. 30.06 in M1, .303 British, and 7,92mm Mauser) or common hunting calibers such as .308 Winchester, the lethality of the 5.56mm NATO fired out of AR-15’s is substantially lower.
P. Cleburne says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:58 am GMT • 100 Words
@anon
“He isn’t the most photogenic kid.”
What is your criteria for “photogenic” and explain how that changes the evidence presented?

“Casey Anthony, who was guilty as hell of something involving her dead kid, got off because she had a decent figure and photogenic tits.”
Really? What grade are you in?

“Even cops don’t bring loaded guns for riot control.”
First; How many years did you say you have been a cop?

Second;That’s not why he had a weapon and that’s not why he was there.
JimDandy says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:58 am GMT
@Nicholas Stix
Thank you, I have heard it said by a very wise man that Kyle is “an Audie Murphy for our time.”

• Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Twinkie says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:02 am GMT • 100 Words
@John Johnson

Any modern handgun is nasty close up.

Nobody wants to be shot – not even with a 22LR out of a mouse gun – but even with modern hollow point ammo, survivability is MUCH higher with handgun rounds than being shot with long guns. Long guns – centerfire rifles and shotgun buck shots/slugs – deliver considerably greater kinetic energy, penetration, and tissue damage than even the most powerful of handguns.

And those energy differentials are at the muzzle. As the distance increases, the gaps between the handgun and long gun cartridges grow even more.

• Thanks: Johann Ricke
• Replies: @John Johnson
The Alarmist says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:22 am GMT
@Farenheit
Drew Carey really put on some pounds.
kaganovitch says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:52 am GMT
@Whiskey
The attorneys who set a police car on fire got probation,

They did not. They haven’t been sentenced yet per this NYT article
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/20/nyregion/george-floyd-protests-lawyers-plea-deal.html
kaganovitch says:
November 16, 2021 at 9:07 am GMT
@JimDandy
I’ve noticed that among commenters here, the closer their connection to Israel, the more conflicted they are about Kyle. Funny, eh?

Have you? Can you name names? I hope you don’t think Mason is a Tribe member.

• Replies: @JimDandy
Reg Cæsar says:
November 16, 2021 at 9:21 am GMT
@JimDandy

The only modern figure I can think of to compare Kyle Rittenhouse to, would be Audie Murphy.

Thank you, I have heard it said by a very wise man that Kyle is “an Audie Murphy for our time.”

Whereas they have Audie Cornish.

• LOL: JimDandy
• Replies: @JimDandy
Reg Cæsar says:
November 16, 2021 at 9:30 am GMT • 200 Words
@anon

So yea, risking your life for the property of a sleazy used car dealer for free is naive as hell.

California’s Attorney General reminds us,

Treat all guns as if they are loaded. Always assume that a gun is loaded even if you think it is unloaded. Every time a gun is handled for any reason, check to see that it is unloaded. If you are unable to check a gun to see if it is unloaded, leave it alone and seek help from someone more knowledgeable about guns.

Allow me to paraphrase:

Treat all buildings and vehicles as if they are occupied. Always assume that a building or vehicle is occupied even if you think it is unoccupied. Every time a building or vehicle is set afire for any reason, check to see that it is unoccupied. If you are unable to check a building or vehicle to see if it is unoccupied, leave it alone and seek help from someone more knowledgeable about buildings and vehicles.

• Agree: PhysicistDave
Reg Cæsar says:
November 16, 2021 at 9:41 am GMT
@PhysicistDave
Hibernian says:
November 16, 2021 at 9:44 am GMT
@John Johnson

They don’t even have the weapons charge after the defense pointed out that the statute isn’t clear.

I think that’s part of it, but they also pointed out that no evidence had been adduced that the AR was short barrelled by statutory definition.
Hibernian says:
November 16, 2021 at 9:48 am GMT
@Whiskey

You should take that to heart in everything you do, and be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves.

This.
Hibernian says:
November 16, 2021 at 9:58 am GMT
@Alfa158

…trying to go to the police who per their orders didn’t want to get involved…

…with a surrendering homicide suspect. I believe Wisconsin was the first with recall elections. Start with the Mayor of Kenosha.
Hodag says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:30 am GMT
As someone who has done a lot of trials in the past, the case is won by picking a good jury and in opening statement. Jurors make up their minds and make up excuses later.

The die is cast and has been for weeks.

• Agree: Tony massey
Tono Bungay says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:57 am GMT
Just curious: Has anyone read in any regular news media a thorough description of the three men of were shot, including their history? It might have slipped past me, but my impression is that none of them wanted to let readers know anything derogatory about them.

• Replies: @Red Pill Angel
, @Ralph L
Sandy Berger's Socks says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:58 am GMT
God Bless Kyle Rittenhouse.

He ran a gauntlet of angry loons, only to be put on trial (persecuted) by another band of angry and dishonest loons.

All he needs now is a brave and honest jury.
EdwardM says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:27 am GMT
@Dr. X
Yeah, there is a chance that the judge could set aside a guilty verdict. I would rather he be acquitted by the jury, but imagine the reaction if the judge did that…

• Replies: @Ben tillman
PhysicistDave says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:29 am GMT • 100 Words
@obwandiyag
obwandiyag wrote:

You go carrying that [an AR-15] around, you mean to kill.

Yes, yes, now you are getting it!

No one should ever be in possession of a gun unless he is willing to use that gun to kill thugs to defend himself or other innocent people.

Rittenhouse had the gun so he could kill anyone he needed to kill. Some thugs needed killing.

Like at Lexington and Concord.

Now we find out if the citizens sitting on the jury are loyal to the United States of America.

“When in the course of human events…”
Tony massey says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:35 am GMT • 100 Words
@Intelligent Dasein
I dabble in phrenology myself (along with the dark arts of course) and i totally get what you’re saying.
Also, i didn’t see fields running but that future wannabe piggie runs like a fat boy. I bet fields does too.
I always get a chuckle watching fat guys run but you can really tell alot like you’re saying.
Their eyes look a little too close for comfort forbmy tastes as well.

Yeh i haven’t paid the slightest attention to the most recent show trial. As if this even matters to anyone but the fat boy and his mama.
At least his mama didn’t say he’s a good boy he’s a loving boy he’s a protector.
Some fine shooting tho. Cleared that jam and lined that fucking perp up in 4 seconds

Guilty of lesser charges. Stiff time. Feds send him buck Rodgers time and he becomes kyle of the 24th c.
Pericles says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:40 am GMT
@Buzz Mohawk
Play it safe, Buzz.
Realist says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:57 am GMT
@Ebony Obelisk
Rittenhouse should be acquitted…every lawyer in the courtroom was on his side.

• LOL: Hibernian
Hibernian says:
November 16, 2021 at 12:10 pm GMT • 200 Words
Might be some points of commonality. (BTW, I am agnostic on the guilt or innocence of Carter.):

“Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night
Enter Patty Valentine from the upper hall
She sees a bartender in a pool of blood
Cries out my God, they killed them all
Here comes the story of the Hurricane
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin’ that he never done
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world…

…Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell
An innocent man in a living hell
That’s the story of the Hurricane
But it won’t be over till they clear his name
And give him back the time he’s done
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world”
Darth Plastic says:
November 16, 2021 at 12:27 pm GMT • 100 Words
The socialist agenda to divide our country and mold it back to their likeness has legs ……..as long as they have the media on their side they have the edge. It has taken them almost half a century to get this far. I believe, they believe it is “do or die” time ever since Hillary got pummeled by the Trumpster.
They demand you take a side, no turning back now. Every event that takes place in this country has turned into a pissing contest. If you are not with them ….you’re the enemy. Ask Gene Simmons. He and the rest of his ilk think we are nazis, deplorables, white nationalists, haters, unpatriotic, just because we have a different opinion and they will do whatever it takes to bring you over to the darkside. sounds a lot like Islam – believe or be an “INFIDEL”.
Spud Boy says:
November 16, 2021 at 12:33 pm GMT
@Whiskey
I’ll have a Whiskey and black pill please…
Expletive Deleted says:
November 16, 2021 at 12:39 pm GMT
@Alfa158
Not only have the Twitterati been threatening Kyle, or the jurors. At least one threatened the judge, said he ought to be hanged. Before the trial’s even over.
And magically, the Feds will be completely incapable of finding this loon or any other of the social media terrorists.
Blodgie says:
November 16, 2021 at 12:47 pm GMT
Rittenhouse is low IQ

What he did—going to a protest with an AR—was incredibly irresponsible and stupid

He created the entire situation when he went looking for trouble

He should do ten years

• Replies: @obwandiyag
, @By-tor
, @Expletive Deleted
Expletive Deleted says:
November 16, 2021 at 12:49 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Buzz Mohawk
At least he showed up, which is the only thing that counts.
He was there because, as usual, none of the “responsible grown-ups” dared to.
Stayed at home, oiling their armories while muttering “don’t tread on me” under their breath.
Apart from his mother, who was counter demo-ing somewhere else in town, earlier I think.
Expletive Deleted says:
November 16, 2021 at 12:51 pm GMT
@Eric Novak
No, it was the 30-something bald chomo who was 5’3″. Kyle is visibly taller in the stream coverage.
Red Pill Angel says:
November 16, 2021 at 12:55 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Tono Bungay
Right, has the MSM said much at all about Rosenbaum and Huber’s pasts? It would be interesting, also, to know the exact path Rosenbaum took from the mental hospital to the riot. Someone here mentioned a stop at a girlfriend’s apartment. He was mad as a hatter, so perhaps nothing he did made sense, but how did he decide to be center stage in a riot? Did he have ties to Antifa? Did he just want to set things on fire? Who paid for his dinner that night? Just curious.
Spud Boy says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:06 pm GMT • 100 Words
I’ve not been following the trial so I have no predictions regarding verdict.

The desire to lionize KR as some sort of hero is disturbing. I don’t want 17 year olds policing cities with AR-15s. I want the police to do their job.

Police rules of engagement should be to shoot on sight anyone in the act of committing criminal destruction of property.

Too many Americans have completely lost the concept of deterrent. “So you think the penalty for setting a car on fire should be death, eh?” No, I don’t, but it’s called deterrent.

Kyle should walk; the police should start policing.
Brutusale says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:13 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Buzz Mohawk
I see Rittenhouse as proof of concept for wannabe tough guys.

Judging by the conversations I hear at my friend’s restaurant bar these days, my Massachusetts SWPLville is full of soft neckbeard types who, after a few juicy, hazy IPAs, let their id out to play and dream of being on the streets fully strapped, shooting nasty Deplorables by the score. I like to point out to them that they’ve never fired a weapon while a 17-year old flyover kid can hit the X-ring while under duress.
Kronos says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:17 pm GMT
@RobinG
He got the “spicy bicep.”
Kronos says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:23 pm GMT • 100 Words
@PhysicistDave
This case is Binger’s once-in-a-lifetime ticket out of flyover country. Kenosha is a Siberian food desert because it’s not New York nor California. If he successfully pelts Rittenhouse “The Libs” will put him on the book circuit and he’ll wine and dine with the big boys. Might even become a Soros favorite.

• Agree: The Wild Geese Howard
• Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
, @G. Poulin
, @Achmed E. Newman
Alec Leamas (working from home) says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:30 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Intelligent Dasein

Kyle Rittenhouse bears a strong physical resemblance to James Fields. They’re both short, dumpy, dorky looking dudes with broad hips, narrow shoulders, neotenous facial features, chestnut pompadours. Is there something particular about this physiognomy that tends to get itself into trouble with woke mobs?

I don’t think Rittenhouse looks like Fields but I do think that Rittenhouse’s neotenous features probably contributed to the mob’s initial selection of him from among the pool of armed non-Antifa types to attack. He got separated from another of the armed defenders who was described as large and with a military background when Rosenbaum decided to ambush attack him. It’s likely that Rosenbaum and Zelinski (the felon who fired the first shot while pursuing Rittenhouse) saw an opportunity with Rittenhouse alone and believed that he was young and weak and wouldn’t fire, and that they could attack him and possibly wrest the rifle from him for their own use. Rosenbaum gambled and lost though, because Rittenhouse did have the fortitude to fire when Rosenbaum got close.

• Agree: Red Pill Angel, S. Anonyia, V. Hickel, JimDandy
Alec Leamas (working from home) says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:36 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Kronos

This case is Binger’s once-in-a-lifetime ticket out of flyover country. Kenosha is a Siberian food desert because it’s not New York nor California. If he successfully pelts Rittenhouse “The Libs” will put him on the book circuit and he’ll wine and dine with the big boys. Might even become a Soros favorite.

Kenosha is a northern suburb of Chicago. It’s not Manhattan or Georgetown, but this guy could in all likelihood have made his way in Chicago.

That is not to say that a paid gig as a “contributor” on MSNBC isn’t in his future as a reward for prosecuting the innocent.
MLK says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:48 pm GMT • 100 Words
@obwandiyag

I know. It was self-defense.

You should have stopped there since it would signal you were at least trying to get it together.

What follows in your comment are the two fallback themes ubiquitous on leftist shout TV. Couldn’t you at least have been honest — the only reason you’re upset about Kyle carrying a firearm that night is because he’s white and was courageously present to protect the community from the Democrats’ Brown Shirts?

This one will age even less well than the national struggle session against the Covington kids. Once the trial is over hopefully the investigative work will begin on how Kyle was targeted in an organized fashion by Antifa/BLM filth because they had assessed him earlier in the day as an easy target when he was cleaning up graffiti.

• Agree: Red Pill Angel
• Replies: @RobinG
Ben tillman says:
November 16, 2021 at 1:50 pm GMT
I think the defense should have objected repeatedly to flagrant mischaracterizations of the facts and the law and re-urged the motion for mistrial with prejudice.

Also, the addition of a provocation instruction and statements about Rosenbaum’s character opened the door so that evidence of Rosenbaum’s mental issues and criminal record should have come in.

• Replies: @That Would Be Telling
G. Poulin says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:04 pm GMT
@Kronos
Not only is this idiot pointing a rifle at the jury, but he even has his finger on the trigger. Was the judge okay with this?

• Replies: @magilla
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 2:16 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Mr. Anon
I just wrote a quick post on that this morning, Mr. Anon. I got the pictures, but would like to confirm this idiot swept the jury too (along with the courtroom observers) with the rifle. Do you have a link on more details?

I admit here that, as important as this trial is, I have not followed along. I will be very glad to hear about an acquittal. This Binger character didn’t help his case by showing he doesn’t know much about guns (at the very least, handling of them).

• Replies: @Ralph L
, @Mr. Anon
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 2:23 pm GMT • 200 Words
I heard a little snippet of some question of Mr. Rittenhouse by one of the prosecutors. (Was it Binger?) This was on someone’s phone, some TV at the airport, I can’t remember exactly, from yesterday no less.

To paraphrase:

“So you wanted to kill them.”
“They were threatening me, so I shot them.”
“You shot them because you wanted to kill them.”
“No, I …”
…
(It went at least 2, maybe 3 more times around.)

I know he’s only 17 y/o, and I think of better things to say later too, but I wish Kyle had said:

“I shot them because I wanted to stop them… to stop them from trying to kill me.”

That is a small part of the reason I wouldn’t want to follow all of the details on TV. Blood pressure. High blood pressure induced by prosecutors I suppose “just doing their jobs”.

Kyle was a cool character out on the street that night, and it also takes a lot of cool to calmly answer that line of questioning. If I would have not been coached for hours on it, I’m guessing I would have called the prosecutor a retard early on.

• Replies: @Sean
, @RobinG
Ben tillman says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:25 pm GMT
@EdwardM
Not just the mistrial. A JNOV would be appropriate.

• Replies: @Corn
JR Ewing says:
November 16, 2021 at 2:41 pm GMT • 200 Words
Although I think the self-defense case is really open and shut, I am more than a little concerned that the “showed up with a gun looking to start trouble” argument will resonate and he’s going to get convicted of something and do some prison time. This ain’t Florida or Texas and fact that charges were brought at all show that the state thinks there is some chance of a conviction.

Although it’s bad logic, “merely having a gun is provocative” is very common logic in our society right now, regardless of what the law says. Completely counter to the 2A and it’s a preview of future crackdowns to come.

Also, although not in this thread, I’ve seen a lot of incredulous normie posts around the internet about “How is any of this racist?” and the answer is very simple. The very act of trying to do something in response to the riots is prima facie evidence that he had racist intentions. The virtuous thing to do in response to BLM and the Mostly Peaceful Summer is to let it all burn because that’s what the natives want. Trying to stop any of it means you aren’t down with the cause and therefore you are a racist who wants to hold down the black man under the existing privilege paradigm. It doesn’t matter (to leftists) if the guys he shot were white, because they were there therefore they are goodwhites and through his actions young Kyle demonstrated he is a badwhite. Ergo, racist.

• Agree: Inquiring Mind
• Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
, @Ben tillman
Ralph L says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:09 pm GMT
@Tono Bungay
DailyMail on Grosskreutz
I think they published some of this a year ago.
Ralph L says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:23 pm GMT
@Achmed E. Newman
He might have done it to make the jurors viscerally understand his (lame) provocation angle.
eddy wobegon says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:29 pm GMT
I thought it was interesting that the judge has granted the jury a 20 minute head start prior to the announcement of the verdict.

That is, if the Babylon Bee is to be trusted 😉

https://babylonbee.com/news/judge-instructs-jury-to-ignore-angry-mob-outside-threatening-to-burn-down-courthouse
Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:30 pm GMT • 100 Words
OK, a prediction:

Rittenhouse will be acquitted of intentional murder but found guilty of some lesser charges – the charges sufficient to imprison him. This way, the jurors and the judge can feel safe(r), it will be easy to avoid rioting and the whole narrative of the evil white nationalists vs good progressive antifa can remain in place untouched.

Of course, everyone in the courtroom knows that the poor guy is innocent. But that’s not how the justice works in the land of freedom anymore.
RobinG says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:41 pm GMT
@Dmon
They parked garbage trucks in Kenosha, and Antifa set them on fire.
They never stopped rioting in Portland.
But I agree with your overall point.
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:43 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Buzz Mohawk

This would make sense if Kyle had indeed been part of “a well regulated militia,” and I wish he had been.

But he was part of a “well regulated militia”. He happened to get separated from his crew, and then performed admirably and effectively while under attack.

The famous Rooftop Koreans were such. Grouped together from a strategically advantageous position, they made it obvious to any would-be looters or rioters that hoodlums would end up losing.

Maybe you’ve seen a few photos, but apparently you haven’t seen any of the widely available video. Some of the Korean defenders on the ground were reacting in an ‘unregulated’ manner, e.g. one-handed pistol shooting in the general direction of looters, failing to use cover, etc. It can be argued that this manner of engagement may have had negative psychological impact on their particular enemy, but I doubt that’s what you have in mind as being “well-regulated”.

Poor, young Kyle put himself alone with a rifle in the middle of a mob of crazy people.

He put himself in an almost impossible position. Had he been part of “a well-regulated militia” things might have gone differently.

I don’t understand your continuous moping. Why would you want it to have gone differently? It went perfectly that night.

You should change your handle to Flop Mohawk. 🙂

• Agree: Inquiring Mind, The Anti-Gnostic, Tony massey, Negrolphin Pool
• Replies: @RobinG
, @Buzz Mohawk
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:53 pm GMT • 100 Words
@JR Ewing

Completely counter to the 2A and it’s a preview of future crackdowns to come.

By whom, and what mechanism(s), exactly?

The very act of trying to do something in response to the riots is prima facie evidence that he had racist intentions.

That would be you accepting the leftist frame. It appears the “normies” aren’t buying it, according to what you’ve reported.

• Replies: @JR Ewing
Sean says:
November 16, 2021 at 3:57 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Achmed E. Newman
But he did not have to testify to cry in court; why was he on the stand being cross examined by a trained professional? Isn’t the point of having legal representation that your lawyer uses his skills in advocacy to speak for you and make the points in your favour without exposing you to carefully weighted questions? Going on the stand is like acting as one’s own lawyer, you can but probably shouldn’t. Kyle was very poorly advised.

• Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
RobinG says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:10 pm GMT
@MLK

… the national struggle session against the Covington kids

Thanks, we could use some positive thoughts.
RobinG says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:16 pm GMT
@Achmed E. Newman

“I shot them because I wanted to stop them… to stop them from trying to kill me.”

I think he did say that, at one point, in almost those words. No?

• Agree: Ben tillman
• Replies: @Sean
, @Achmed E. Newman
RobinG says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:46 pm GMT
@Jenner Ickham Errican

He happened to get separated from his crew…

Didn’t he get a call from someone in his crew, summoning him to the car lot? Wasn’t he told to go there to put out a fire?

• Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
The Anti-Gnostic says:
November 16, 2021 at 4:59 pm GMT
@Buzz Mohawk
All the “smarter, better” people are hunkered down in suburbs, watching sportsball and praying to jeebus to turn the clock back to 1986. They are not going to like the future.

• Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
• Replies: @Bill
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:11 pm GMT • 100 Words
@RobinG

He happened to get separated from his crew…

Didn’t he get a call from someone in his crew, summoning him to the car lot? Wasn’t he told to go there to put out a fire?

Both can be true. The point is: He didn’t start the fire. It was always burning, since the world’s been turning.
John Johnson says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:18 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Twinkie
Yes I understand that rifles are more powerful than handguns. I noted that in my response. Thanks dad.

A modern 9mm hollow point will expand to .6 inches. At point blank it can go through you and leave an exit hole.

9mm survivability stats are skewed from negroes getting shot with 9mm ball ammo.

If you take two 9mm hollow point rounds to the chest at point blank then you are probably hosed.

Rosenbaum was shot 5 times with one to the head. If you went back and switched those bullets to 9mm then it wouldn’t have mattered.

• Replies: @RobinG
, @Twinkie
Dr. DoomNGloom says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:22 pm GMT • 100 Words
@PhysicistDave

one guy tried to take Rittenhouse’s gun away from Rittenhouse, and one guy banged Rittenhouse with a skateboard.

I would have said “blunt instrument” rather than “skateboard” to make the point that each was legally armed. This was not a fistfight by any stretch of the imagination.

I also believe Kyle was concussed by the skateboard/blunt instrument. If one suffers a head blow sufficient to see stars, that’s a concussion. A concussion seems far likely than not.
I’ve also heard that he had PTSD like symptoms including vomiting while in prison, consistent with post concussion syndrome.

I can understand defense avoiding this issue however. They have a clear case based on rational response. Introducing concussion only makes sense to explain aberrant behavior. I put 25% odds there is follow up lawsuit on treatment in prison.
Paperback Writer says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:24 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Jonathan Mason

but it still comes down to whether the jury believed that Rittenhouse set out that evening with a loaded rifle hellbent on shooting people or whether he was acting in purely in self defense because the demonstrators/rioters had apparently decided to target him and kill him.

I don’t think that’s the case. If it were he’d walk in a flash. The defense disproved that crude theory effectively.

Unfortunately, self-defense in WI is only justified if you never intended to kill anyone, even if you did. That means that you can remove the threat, but only that. The prosecution doesn’t have to prove you planned anything. If at any point you intended to kill, you are guilty.

That is what the prosecutors did when they emphasized that Kyle shot Rosenbaum 4 times. Rosenbaum fell, wounded, after the first shot. Kyle shot 3 more times. He didn’t stop to help. McGinnis did. Then he ran on.

The prosecution maintains that those four shots prove Kyle’s intention to kill.

I don’t agree with this but it’s a more difficult thing to disprove than the caricature you offered.

• Thanks: Sean
• Replies: @Sean
, @Jonathan Mason
, @Sean
Paperback Writer says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:27 pm GMT
@Neil Templeton
Nobody’s gonna riot about Rittenhouse because blacks don’t care about this.

They will riot if the guys in the Arbery case aren’t convicted. Somehow that’s been lost in all this Rittenhouse stuff. White privilege I guess.

• Replies: @Clyde
Sean says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:29 pm GMT • 100 Words
@RobinG
Yes he did when he was recounting his prepared account, but a courtroom drama of cross burns the defendant’s impromptu reply during back and forth into jurors’ minds and Kyle failed to win that one exchange as someone mentioned. So his answer to a question (that the prosecutorial team had spent weeks drafting) is what the jury will remember and hold him to the fire with. The tapes of what happened were what the defence ought to have highlighted because Kyle was chased down and assaulted.while openly carrying. One slip up on the stand is all it takes, which is why I must question the strategy of his attorney.

• Replies: @Paperback Writer
Paperback Writer says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:30 pm GMT
@Buzz Mohawk
“Better and smarter”?

I would say, “Older and more ruthless.”

Kyle’s a good kid.

• Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
John Johnson says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:31 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Dmon
In Portland the local citizenry took the side of Antifa even after they trashed the downtown.

Anytime the proud boys were attacked they were depicted as the aggressor for simply showing up. Portlanders seem to think that Antifa has the right to walk around and trash buildings cause they are just local leftists trying to vent. Proud boys are the outsiders and always at fault.

This is why I think Trump had the right idea which is to let the local authorities handle it. Liberals aren’t capable of dealing with reality even when it is burning in front of them. I remember after one of the Portland riots the local shopkeeps couldn’t even describe Antifa as responsible. They clearly thought that Trump or rayciss police on the other side of the country were really the problem. I don’t see the point in arming up to defend some liberal lesbian’s bakery.

• Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
, @James B. Shearer
JR Ewing says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:47 pm GMT
@Jenner Ickham Errican
Ummmm, that’s not what I’m saying. That’s my summary of the logic of calling him “racist”. It’s certainly not what I think personally. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Sean says:
November 16, 2021 at 5:50 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Paperback Writer
Even in WI it is I think it is still self defence if the killing was collateral to defending himself in a proportionate way. And there were shot fired by others, which he might have reasonably thought were from the person chasing him down and now well within pistol range. Kyle’s main problem is he used an AR15. Joe Biden posted a photograph of Kyle with that gun and suggested Kyle Rittenhouse was a “white supremacist”.
Jus' Sayin'... says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:03 pm GMT
@Ebony Obelisk
Not funny, Tiny Duck. Way too far over the top. Even an ignorant “woke” fool would be less strident than this.
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 6:09 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Sean
As I wrote, Sean, I haven’t had the time to follow it. (That’s not to say that I don’t think this one is VERY important.) I don’t know about the crying part.

Now, on your legal question, I am nothing resembling a lawyer, but doesn’t the prosecution have the right to cross-examine any witness, the defendant being one? I know this is an easy question, so for the lawyers here, please don’t treat one of us as an idiot – I just thankfully haven’t spent much time in any court outside traffic court.

• Replies: @JR Ewing
, @Rex Little
Jus' Sayin'... says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:09 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Jonathan Mason

“Ultimately, though, it is going to come down to whether they believed his [Kyle Rittenhouse’s] account or not.”

Since it is Rittenhouse’s account and not that of the unscrupulous prosecutor, Binger, that matches all witness testimony (including the testimony of prosecution witnesses) and all circumstantial evidence, including videos and ballistics, I can’t see any way the jury cannot believe Rittenhouse’s account.
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 6:12 pm GMT • 100 Words
@RobinG
That’s not what I heard. He may have been trying to say that, but I kept thinking, just say you “wanted to stop the threat, and that was what it took” (perfectly truthful too) or something.

I’m not sure you can be coached for every single question, especially ridiculously stupid ones like this.
JR Ewing says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:19 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Achmed E. Newman
Not sure if this is what you are asking, but yes, if the defendant is called by the defense, the prosecutor has the right to cross-examine him. He cannot avoid it except to say “5th Amendment” which would look very bad to a jury.

However, as you rightly are aware, he cannot be compelled to testify as part of the prosecution’s case, it can only be a cross-examination.

• Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
obwandiyag says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:24 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Blodgie
Yeah, nobody seems to notice that. What was he doing going to a protest with an AR-15 like it was DaNang or something? To protect? Protect what? It’s the response of a retard. Oh, there’s a protest on TV. Got to get ma machine gun and go protect the car lots. Foh the greater good. Really weird. And this is their hero?

This incident just exemplifies my constant point: test cases are always wrong. They are always too full of specific anomalies and contradictions to make your general case for you.

• Troll: V. Hickel
• Replies: @RobinG
, @Ben tillman
Jonathan Mason says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:29 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Paperback Writer
I did not know about this before, but the Daily Mail mentioned that there is an existence a video clip of Rittenhouse talking about shooting some people who had shoplifted from a pharmacy.

This video was recorded about 2 weeks before the riots, and of course it was not allowed to be used as evidence in court.

If it had been, it would certainly have changed the jury’s perception of Rittenhouse’s bona fides.

• Replies: @Ben tillman
, @Alden
SafeNow says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:31 pm GMT
The jurors perhaps calculate that following an acquittal, Kyle would be prosecuted for civil-rights violations by Merrick (“Get the parents”) Garland’s justice department. As opposed to Garland and Jan. 6th torture-justice, this judge is more fair. Thus, entrust KR to whatever sentence this judge might impose.
magilla says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:33 pm GMT
@G. Poulin
Except for gun nerds, and those who picked up the call on Twitter and other social media but really have no clue, nobody noticed or cared.

To be honest, it was nothing compared to their outrageous lies about terminal ballistics and the danger of skateboards as melee weapons.

• Replies: @That Would Be Telling
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 6:37 pm GMT
@Dmon
Great comments, Dmon, all 3!

• Replies: @Dmon
John Johnson says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:44 pm GMT • 100 Words
The only thing that worries me is that final jury is 7 women and 5 men.

But I still think he will walk.

The prosecutor made a huge mistake trying to get first degree intentional homicide. That is ridiculous.

When you ask the jury to consider lesser charges you are admitting that your case isn’t strong. Well why were you pushing them to begin with?

Get ready for MSM meltdown in 5….4…..3…..
S. Anonyia says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:46 pm GMT • 100 Words
@P. Cleburne
I gave a pretty neutral/positive description to Rittenhouse, much more than the commenter I replied to. Fields shouldn’t have received such a harsh sentence for the car blunder but you have to admit he is a weird looking young guy.

Also, some biases we develop from personal experience. I am a southerner after all and quite familiar with people similar to the “negative” description I gave.
Ralph L says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:48 pm GMT
This radio dude says the DA knew who the black jump kick man was but didn’t use him because he was another career criminal with multiple probation violations:
Dan O’Donnell

Wonder why the defense didn’t call him.

• Replies: @That Would Be Telling
, @Alden
R.G. Camara says:
November 16, 2021 at 6:49 pm GMT
I think we should all get used to the guilty verdict and quit over-analyzing how weak the case was against him.

No way they jury will not convict, too afraid and too woke.

Facts don’t matter, whites are hunted.

• Agree: Alden
• Thanks: Tony massey
Buzz Mohawk says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:05 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Jenner Ickham Errican
Listen, I understand your point. I will even admit to not knowing all the details you do. It just seems that young Kyle got himself into an untenable situation that eventually would require him to shoot somebody. That’s what happens when you bring a gun to a fight.

The question, therefore is, is it time to bring guns to this fight?

Don’t get me wrong. I am on his side. We all have that right. So, yes, he is a hero, and maybe he is a little spark in all this. You do understand what this means, though. Did Kyle himself understand what he was getting into? Maybe no real hero does…

— Flop Mohawk

🙂

PS: Let me just repeat one question: Is it time to bring guns to this fight? Because if you think now is the time, then get ready and get your gun. (I have mine, plus legal representation if needed. You see, I try not to be a fool.) As for me (and my wife) I only stand ready to defend my own property. I am not part of yours or anyone else’s fight, because I see nothing to trust now, not even you.

And I sure as hell will not defend some car dealer’s lot. Of all things!

Besides, I’m getting old, and I can feel it.

Best of luck to you, in all sincerity, from my 3 acres of Earth, my only country now.

• Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
, @Jenner Ickham Errican
Muggles says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:06 pm GMT • 200 Words
@John Johnson

You are in serious trouble if you take a modern 9mm hollow point to the chest.

.

Most of this gun/bullet yak here is beside the point.

Being shot in the chest at close range with any firearm is extremely risky to the victim. Long rifles and shotguns most lethal but few carry those around in cities or crowds.

What is said about the type of bullets used here should be ignored. While hollow point rounds are more effective, with sometimes less “pass through” secondary effects, they are legally risky to use even for self defense.

As we see with Rittenhouse and other post-shooting trials, is aggressive nasty anti-victim prosecutors use that kind of evidence to nail shooters regardless of circumstances.

“Why did you use extra lethal bullets in your gun if only for self defense?” Etc.

Using macho guns (large heavy caliber) and extra lethal ammo can be used against you if you encounter the “wrong kind” of perp and shoot them. You then are deemed the aggressor for merely owning and using more powerful weapons. Clown World.

• Replies: @JR Ewing
Intelligent Dasein says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:14 pm GMT
@Buzz Mohawk

PS: Let me just repeat one question: Is it time to bring guns to this fight?

It’s time to stand on the principle of self-defense but not to go looking for trouble. Virtue consists usually in doing the plain, simple, right thing even though the passions of the times are always pulling you off in extraordinary directions.

It is also time to start abolishing the legacy police forces who will not lift a finger to defend the lives and property of ordinary people, and replace them with civilian defense leagues.
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 7:15 pm GMT • 200 Words
@John Johnson
Kyle is a hero. What do you want to happen, Mr. Johnson? Do you want Americans to keep giving in to these Communists? (Make no mistake, they may as well the same people reincarnated.)

The outcome of this trial is very important. As Mr. Dmon wrote in his 3rd comment, if Kyle gets convicted on a murder charge, Americans will know that the Establishment – Feral Gov’t, local government, law enforcement, “justice” system, and all the rest – will throw the book at them for defending their culture (Charlottesville trials), their property (Brunswick, GA trial), and their very lives (in this one).

That would make most Americans stand down and let Totalitarianism reign, as most Americans have been seen to be cowardly, so far. However, those who are not will understand that it’s an all or nothing thing now, with patriots against the entire establishment. There are people who will take this to heart. Some of these people don’t post on blogs about any of this. These are the types that, if they do, will tell you that “after the first one, the rest are free.”

Hopefully, there will be an acquittal. Riots or no riots, many more Americans will be out there with rifles to defend their property and lives than before the unpleasantness in Kenosha.

• Agree: Jim Christian, Alden
• Replies: @Corvinus
, @John Johnson
Sean says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:21 pm GMT
@Paperback Writer
Jacob Blake was shot seven times in the back and side.

• Replies: @Paperback Writer
Paperback Writer says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:29 pm GMT
@Sean
Yes, knife in hand, after resisting arrest like a raging bull and not going down after being tasered, about to kidnap his kids in a car that wasn’t his. What’s your point?

• Replies: @Sean
Buzz Mohawk says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:37 pm GMT
@Paperback Writer
Yes. He is a good kid. I pray the jury will understand not only him but the Second Amendment.

Perhaps this is indeed a watershed moment. Maybe, in fact, we all should join those already so committed here and across our country to make it one.

• Replies: @Paperback Writer
Bill Jones says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:38 pm GMT • 100 Words
The Zman’s piece sums it up perfectly.

Most white people are trying to avoid looking at this trial. The grotesque nature of it turns their stomach, as it should. The ugliness of the human condition is on display. There are the savage calls for mob vengeance and the cruelty of fanaticism. This trial is a human sacrifice carried out by a mob of fanatical lunatics. Most white people thought we had evolved beyond this sort of thing. Welcome to America.

https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=25697
Bill Jones says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:46 pm GMT
@John Johnson
Minor edit suggestion

2. Don’t charge someone that has an AR15

sb

2. Don’t attack someone that has an AR15

In a legal case the word charge is ambiguous.
Sean says:
November 16, 2021 at 7:52 pm GMT
@Paperback Writer
The cop used his free hand to grab and hold Blake while shooting him four times in the back; Blake was then shot three times in the side.

• Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
, @Paperback Writer
, @Paperback Writer
, @Alden
CMC says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:17 pm GMT
Still waiting for the Great Trial where, in closing arguments, one of the attorneys just starts blatantly ripping off hot takes from twitter.
The Anti-Gnostic says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:35 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Sean
Cops want to go home at the end of their shift just like you do. So when a surly pavement ape reaches into his SUV (how does he afford an SUV–crypto, performing neurosurgery?) he’s going to get grabbed and shot before he can turn around with a knife or a sidearm.

None of which is necessarily to defend cops, but Blake is the typical dumb shit with a stupendously complicated personal life that’s constantly escalating out of control and into confrontations with LEOs. People at that level are literally incapable of productive existence in a self-ruling republic.

• Agree: Alden
• Replies: @Paperback Writer
, @John Johnson
Charles Pewitt says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:37 pm GMT

Which politician will raise the issue of punishing the media for trying to force an outcome in the Rittenhouse trial? Where is the political drive to deprive journalists who misled the public about the Rittenhouse trial of employment or punishing outlets for the same?

— Pedro L. Gonzalez (@emeriticus) November 16, 2021

Tweet from 2015:

@AnnCoulter The corporate propaganda apparatus in the USA is evil. The US mass media is demonically possessed. #nhpolitics #iacaucus #UKIP

— Charles Pewitt (@CharlesPewitt) August 17, 2015

• Thanks: John Regan
SafeNow says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:37 pm GMT • 100 Words
On the Rush-successors radio show this morning, one of the hosts quipped that the deputy DAs chosen to handle this case must have been taken “from the back of the deck.” Maybe not. I think the deck for lawyers (except tax and appellate) is not sorted like the deck for organic chemists or fine-finish carpenters. The lawyer deck-sorting is more a “con style” thing. Same for Fauci.

• Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
Rex Little says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:40 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Achmed E. Newman

doesn’t the prosecution have the right to cross-examine any witness, the defendant being one?

Yes, but the defendant doesn’t have to take the stand (I’m not a lawyer either, but I’m quite sure of this). Only the defense lawyer can call the defendant as a witness; the prosecution can’t (it would be a clear violation of the Fifth Amendment).

• Agree: Achmed E. Newman
• Replies: @Tony massey
Paperback Writer says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:53 pm GMT
@Sean
Why did he resist at all?

• Replies: @Sean
, @Alden
Paperback Writer says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:54 pm GMT
@The Anti-Gnostic
Now. now, sir, hoodrat is quite enough.
Paperback Writer says:
November 16, 2021 at 8:57 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Buzz Mohawk

Perhaps this is indeed a watershed moment. Maybe, in fact, we all should join those already so committed here and across our country to make it one.

If God forbid he’s convicted, it will be a watershed moment. If he walks free, he’ll be forgotten in a few years. Let us pray it’s the latter.

• Replies: @Johann Ricke
Charles Pewitt says:
November 16, 2021 at 9:19 pm GMT
INTELLECTUALIZED MESTIZO RAGE

Good deal!

I am once again calling for imprisoning journalists at The Economist for inciting racial hatred against white people https://t.co/lSAsQ6OsEU

— Pedro L. Gonzalez (@emeriticus) November 16, 2021

A major problem in America is that the media incites racism against white people, going so far as trying to shape and channel public opinion to force outcomes in the legal system against whites. What is to be done about this? Why aren't we talking about this more?

— Pedro L. Gonzalez (@emeriticus) November 16, 2021

• Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 16, 2021 at 9:36 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Kronos
Holy crap! Not only does this video show him as an idiot with his gun handling, but that last part of his statement there – “You lose the right to self-defense when you’re the one who brought the gun.” – has “retard” written all over it.

How would Kyle have been able to defend himself if he HADN’T brought the gun?!

It looks like we had a Patriot on the inside picking the prosecutors.

• Replies: @Kronos
Bill says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:18 pm GMT
@AndrewR
That’s interesting. Is there evidence?
RobinG says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:34 pm GMT
@John Johnson
Who shot him the 5th time?

In fact, since we’ve been told 2 of Kyles [4] shots missed (hence the alleged endangerment to Richie M.), who shot him the last 3 times?

• Replies: @D. K.
Bill says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:39 pm GMT
@The Anti-Gnostic
Other than the sportsball, that’s me.
RobinG says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:41 pm GMT
@obwandiyag
When your sister gets raped, well remind you that her skirt was too short.
Corvinus says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:49 pm GMT
“How would Kyle have been able to defend himself if he HADN’T brought the gun?!“

The better question, of course, is where would Kyle be had he stayed entirely away from a chaotic situation and gone home.

• Troll: Tony massey
• Replies: @Reg Cæsar
, @Jenner Ickham Errican
Tony massey says:
November 16, 2021 at 10:58 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Rex Little
I’m not a lawyer either and didn’t goto one of your big fancy tech schools either but i would have advised Kyle to fake his own death on the witness stand…ya know say i can’t breathe i can’t breathe…and pound the table while he’s pretend fake dying.
That would have been good optics at any rate.
It was also provoked some real empathy with the i can’t breathe crowd.
I couldn’t breathe once. Gawd it was awful.
Corvinus says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:02 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Achmed E. Newman
Only those who dream to be Kyle, but don’t have the guile to pull it off like yourself, call him a hero. He’s more like a sacrificial lamb. If you are earnestly upset that “Communists” are running roughshod over this great land, why aren’t you willing to do exactly what Kyle did anywhere there is civil unrest, no matter how far the distance? No, you would rather lionize him and claim when the moment comes, you would be a marksmen. Remember, he was supposedly asked to defend someone else’s property. Why don’t YOU do the same thing and record it for all to see on your website? That’s what a true patriot would do if serious about stopping the establishment.

• Troll: Tony massey
• Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
, @Jenner Ickham Errican
AnotherDad says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:18 pm GMT • 100 Words

Whaddaya think?

A hung jury.

This was Kyle vs. three other flyover country white guys. The racial angle isn’t there, so i would think jury members can’t really be mau-mau’d.

That gone, seems to me it comes down to those who believe in the right-to-riot and the associated right for leftists to attack people resisting their riots/protests/ideas (established since Charlottesville) and those who do not believe in this right to riot. I suspect both are on the jury and will not agree.

A hung jury will be a good metaphor for a hung America.

After 60 years of minoritarianism we simply no longer have anything resembling a common set of norms and values. We are no longer a nation and should peacefully separate.
ic1000 says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:23 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Dmon
> Antifa showed up in force in Torrance, CA last year to sack the Del Amo mall. Torrance PD parked school buses and dump trucks around the perimeter, and made a show of force. Antifa basically milled around, acted like juvenile assholes and left.

Interesting points. BLM, Antifa, and its useful idiots/allies protested/rioted in Lancaster, Pennsylvania in September 2020, on the pretext of the city police shooting ~~knife-wielding domestic-disturbance crazy~~ saintly Ricardo Munoz (pictured). Here is a fairly protester-friendly account.

The case attracted attention because one of the arrested (alleged) riot-enablers was a sorority sister from a local college. Her, her parents, Antifa, the ACLU, etc. were outraged that her Pretty Blonde privilege didn’t get her a pass from those beastly cops (equal outrage if it had, but nevermind).

At any rate, the cops not retreating to the donut shop led to a Torrance-like outcome, with the damage in the low thousands rather than in the millions. Funny, that.
Charles Pewitt says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:48 pm GMT • 100 Words

NICHOLAS SANDMANN: The corrupt liberal media came for me, just like they came for Kyle Rittenhouse https://t.co/1Swf6f5T01

— Daily Mail US (@DailyMail) November 16, 2021

The Battle of Rittenhouse and the Nicholas Sandmann smile and stand affair points to larger questions about the mass media. How much longer will the European Christian ancestral core of the USA tolerate the anti-White and anti-Christian animosity emanating from the mass corporate media?

Rittenhouse and Sandmann have both been viciously attacked by the rancid snout-twitching rodents in the mass corporate media.

The JEW/WASP Ruling Class of the American Empire uses its control of the corporate propaganda apparatus to keep its power intact and entrenched.

Tweet from 2014:

The US corporate propaganda apparatus is designed to manage political opinion. US media is anti-White & anti-Christian. #nhpolitics #UKIP

— Charles Pewitt (@CharlesPewitt) November 24, 2014
JR Ewing says:
November 16, 2021 at 11:59 pm GMT
@Muggles

Long rifles and shotguns most lethal but few carry those around in cities or crowds.

There is a reason they are called “riot” shotguns.

Would have been extremely beneficial for him to have in this situation, honestly. He kind of got lucky with the AR.

• Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
Reg Cæsar says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:05 am GMT • 200 Words
Judge Bruce Schroeder’s children have been threatened with ‘heinous homicide’ in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial

The Kenosha County Democrats’ slogan for their recall campaign was leaked! Let’s apply it to the tune of Irving Berlin’s “Happy Holiday”:

Heinous homicide
Heinous homicide
While the siren horns keep wailing
Heinous homicide for you

It’s the homicide season
And Auntie Fa is coming ’round
The Schroeder kids are whites on the ground
When old Auntie gets into town
We’ll be coming from the courthouse, clown

It’s the homicide season
And Auntie Fa has got a toy…

For every bad judge and bad little goy
Auntie’s a great big bundle of joy
When she’s coming from the courthouse down

She’ll have a big fat pack upon her back
And lots of goodies for you racist dicks
So leave a cyanide vial for old St. Kyle
Hanging on his crucifix.

It’s the homicide season
So hoop-de-do and dickory dock
And don’t forget to hang up your Glock
‘Cause just exactly at twelve o’clock
We’ll be coming from the courthouse
coming from the courthouse
coming from the courthouse down!

• LOL: Negrolphin Pool
Reg Cæsar says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:26 am GMT • 100 Words
@Corvinus

The better question, of course, is where would Kyle be had he stayed entirely away from a chaotic situation and gone home.

Where would Kenosha be?

Day 3: August 25

At around 11:45 pm, a 17-year-old Illinois resident shot and killed two people and injured a third. He was arrested the next day…

Day 4: August 26

Protests continued peacefully with chants and sidewalk art in a park near the courthouse, followed by a march. Riot police and National Guard troops did not have a visible presence.

His actions concentrated their minds wonderfully.

• Replies: @Corvinus
John Johnson says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:27 am GMT • 200 Words
@Achmed E. Newman
Kyle is a hero. What do you want to happen, Mr. Johnson? Do you want Americans to keep giving in to these Communists? (Make no mistake, they may as well the same people reincarnated.)

I completely support defending your home or business against Antifa. If they come to my town then you will see me on TV.

I do not support dropping off a 17 year at a riot in a Democrat city where no one is supervising him.

The outcome of this trial is very important. As Mr. Dmon wrote in his 3rd comment, if Kyle gets convicted on a murder charge, Americans will know that the Establishment – Feral Gov’t, local government, law enforcement, “justice” system, and all the rest – will throw the book at them for defending their culture (Charlottesville trials), their property (Brunswick, GA trial), and their very lives (in this one).

The verdict doesn’t mean anything.

With each passing year the establishment cares even less about the laws. Racial tensions will likely get worse if nothing changes and many of these Democrat cities will burn again. The establishment has made it clear to Blacks and White leftists that they can go start fires if they feel justified in doing it.

Most Americans will simply change the channel regardless of the verdict.

• Replies: @RobinG
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 17, 2021 at 12:32 am GMT • 100 Words
@Corvinus

He’s more like a sacrificial lamb.

No, I’d use a different animal-based expression. He’s the canary in the coal mine. You can go back and actually read what I wrote above so’s I don’t have to explain it again.

As for the rest, you did get me to write back, so I’ll give you credit for that, but I’d be stupid to tell an internet troll mine or others contingency plans.

• Replies: @Boomthorkell
, @Corvinus
Jim Bob Lassiter says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:37 am GMT
@Dr. Tapioca
As i have previously noted at another article, juries don’t always obey the judges’ instructions.

• Replies: @Expletive Deleted
John Johnson says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:37 am GMT • 100 Words
@The Anti-Gnostic
Cops want to go home at the end of their shift just like you do. So when a surly pavement ape reaches into his SUV (how does he afford an SUV–crypto, performing neurosurgery?) he’s going to get grabbed and shot before he can turn around with a knife or a sidearm.

He should have shot him once in the back or in the shoulder blade of the arm holding the knife.

I could see shooting him a couple times if he was charging but he hadn’t turned around.

It was weak. Kyle showed much better trigger control.

I get the guy was a POS but he shouldn’t have unloaded like that.

• Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:00 am GMT • 700 Words
@Buzz Mohawk

It just seems that young Kyle got himself into an untenable situation that eventually would require him to shoot somebody.

It’s simpler to acknowledge what actually happened: Young Kyle in fact extricated himself from the scene rather handily—by definition the situation that night cannot be described as “untenable”. Unless you automatically find “shooting somebody” to be untenable?

Waxing more broadly philosophical—all life on earth, measured individually, is in an “untenable situation”, at least physically. As the ZeroHedge header reads:

“On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

So, the question (if not the answer, for many) is simple—how does one live one’s life?

The question, therefore is, is it time to bring guns to this fight?

My position is that whether there’s a fight or not, at least be ready to forcefully defend yourself (and loved ones) at all times. Expanding concentrically, a patriot civilian’s instinct of defense extends to the whole nation. To modify a phrase from environmentalism, “Think nationally, act locally.”

Therefore, you partially answered your own question: You are armed (get training) and you are confident that you can defend your property, at least to the point of offering some violent resistance if ‘the fight’, in whatever form, comes to you. That’s good. (To earn back your original handle, you should have a few decent hatchets hidden around the house. Practice chopping some hefty beef chucks while letting rip your WAR CRY. Have your Mrs. do the same. 🙂 )

So, yes, he is a hero, and maybe he is a little spark in all this. You do understand what this means, though.

Yes, I do, and I think that’s what’s at the heart of your repeated misgivings: Fear. Or as some might put it, FUD—fear, uncertainty, doubt. Many such cases right here in the iSteve comments, and that’s understandable.

Did Kyle himself understand what he was getting into? Maybe no real hero does…

Don’t worry about being a hero, or worry about being a villain for that matter. Just do what’s right if you’re so compelled. And if others do what’s right, recognize that—no matter what alternate outcome you think could have been ‘gamed’ a priori.

Besides, I’m getting old, and I can feel it.

This one goes out to you, Buzz:

“In his autumn ‘fore the winter
Comes man’s last mad surge of youth.”

“What on earth are you talking about?”

[MORE]

Don’t Fall

Don’t fall
Don’t fall
Don’t fall

Alone in a room I’ve been in once before
Shapes in the hall, I barricade the door
I’m out on the edge, but I’m not defeated yet
I hear my name above everything else
Mark! Mark! Above everything else

Don’t fall, don’t fall
Today’s freak out, nothing’s familiar
And nothing seems to fit into the scheme of things
Seeing faces where there shouldn’t be faces
No one’s really certain what tomorrow brings
Don’t fall, my friend
Or this nightmare never ends

Hiding inside a room that’s running red
The place to be exists only in your head
In the focus of fear within the creases of a dress, a female dress
How did I come to be drowning in this mess
Ahh, fucking mess

Don’t fall, don’t fall
Today’s freak out, nothing’s familiar
And nothing seems to fit into the scheme of things
Seeing faces where there shouldn’t be faces
No one’s really certain what tomorrow brings

Don’t fall
Don’t fall
Don’t fall
I know your back’s against the wall
But this roaring silence
Won’t devour us all

Freak out, nothing’s familiar
Some things rearrange, the scheme of things
(Don’t fall)
Freak out, nothing’s familiar
(When your back’s against the wall)
Some things rearrange, the scheme of things
(Don’t fall)
Freak out, nothing’s familiar
(When your back’s against the wall)
Some things rearrange, the scheme of things
(But this roaring silence)
Freak out, nothing’s familiar
(Won’t devour us all)
Some things rearrange, the scheme of things
(Mistakes don’t know)
Don’t fall

• Thanks: Buzz Mohawk, John Regan
• Replies: @Paperback Writer
, @RobinG
By-tor says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:03 am GMT • 100 Words
@Blodgie
It wasn’t a protest. The BLM Left- coming from miles around- had burned a commercial section of Kenosha the night before and was repeating the performance when the crazy pedophile Rosenbaum singled out Rittenhouse and attacked him with a heavy chain. The second night also found surviving small businesses’ owners and their supporters on their premises armed and warning off BLM’s arsonists. Unsure as to your socialization or where you live, but civilians defending against widespread criminal destruction is what normal people do when asked.

Grosskreutz and the 40-year-old black jump-kicker have yet to be charged. Your reality-testing is poor.

• Replies: @Blodgie
D. K. says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:05 am GMT • 100 Words
@RobinG
The two of Kyle Rittenhouse’s eight shots that missed were the two that he shot at the other felon:

https://newstalk1130.iheart.com/featured/common-sense-central/content/2021-11-16-the-disturbing-story-of-the-rittenhouse-cases-mysterious-jump-kick-man/

All four shots fired at the felon Rosenbaum hit their target, as did the two respective bullets fired at the felons Huber and Grosskreutz– the former fatally, and the finale decisively.

• Thanks: Johann Ricke
Clyde says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:09 am GMT • 100 Words
@Paperback Writer

They will riot if the guys in the Arbery case aren’t convicted. Somehow that’s been lost in all this Rittenhouse stuff. White privilege I guess.

Jogger-thief Arbery was such a mental case before he got killed. And proved it when he got killed for trying to grab a man’s gun. Arbery must have seen this done on TV and the movies. I call Arbery, suicide by armed citizen. I will bet Arbery had been on and off his psyche meds.
Paperback Writer says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:32 am GMT • 100 Words
@James B. Shearer
According to this, Virginia is the exception.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/11/16/rittenhouse-trial-self-defense/

In Wisconsin, the state bears that burden: The prosecution must disprove at least one legal element of Rittenhouse’s self-defense claim, and do so beyond a reasonable doubt.

But the defense shifted at the last moment to focus on provocation.
Paperback Writer says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:36 am GMT • 100 Words
@Jenner Ickham Errican

Young Kyle in fact extricated himself from the scene rather handily—by definition the situation that night cannot be described as “untenable”. Unless you automatically find “shooting somebody” to be untenable?

Right, so handily he’s sitting in a defendant’s chair, with a very good chance of spending years in jail. And PTSD.

Nope, I’m with Buzz here. Kyles a good kid, his heart was in the right place, but his head was in the clouds. I despise the creeps he neutralized, and I hope that one day Joshua Ziminski gets the reward he richly deserves, but Kyle shouldn’t have been there. And for a Pakistani used car salesman who lied on the stand to save his slimy tanned ass? Nope.

Lemme ask you this: when the next Kenosha rolls around, where will you be? Doing the old keyboard jockey?

• Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
• Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
, @Reg Cæsar
, @Ralph L
Boomthorkell says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:36 am GMT
@Achmed E. Newman
I think when Corvinus dies defending Taiwan’s “right” to be an American vassal, or dies defending a person’s “right” to loot a city with abandon, I’ll believe his critiques of people not engaging in armed revolt.
RobinG says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:56 am GMT
@Jenner Ickham Errican
To modify a phrase from environmentalism, “Think nationally, act locally.”

The phrase is, “Think globally, act locally.” The misquote (or slip) suggests a restriction of outlook rather typical here, which you may consider desirable.

• Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
Martin Luther King says:
November 17, 2021 at 2:05 am GMT
@Ebony Obelisk
How do you provoke someone,and they then have some right to beat/kill you? Kyle “provoked” that monster Rosenbaum? What is he some kind of boy raping king?

• Replies: @JR Ewing
Dmon says:
November 17, 2021 at 2:36 am GMT
@Achmed E. Newman
Thank you. I try to do what I can, even if it doesn’t amount to 1% of what Kyle has done.
Jonathan Mason says:
November 17, 2021 at 2:48 am GMT • 100 Words
I thought the criticism of the judge for making the lame Asian food joke was a bit silly. Lame, yes, but not racist,but perhaps an indication that the judge had been watching his own performance on the TV news and caught a bit of another story.

Where was the judge getting his lunch from?

However it does perhaps point to a tendency on the part of judges to get a bit star-struck on themselves in the presence of cameras.

• Replies: @Kronos
, @RobinG
Negrolphin Pool says:
November 17, 2021 at 2:48 am GMT
@Charles Pewitt
One benefit of nuestros vecinos nuevos: Mexicans understand “journalism”.
Negrolphin Pool says:
November 17, 2021 at 3:00 am GMT • 100 Words
@SafeNow
Both Binger and Kraus are fluent liars. I mean really good. They probably could have made more running IRS scams on geezers than being also-ran hack shysters. And both appear to be smart enough to know that their personal safety is far from guaranteed as a result of their choice little courtroom burlesque. Neither appear to care.

You hear guys like Al Pacino talk about how cops and criminals are close to interchangeable parts. That iconic meeting between Vincent Hanna and Neil McCauley in Heat is a good illustration.

But in the real world, top cops aren’t supposed to have more or less identical personality profiles to the worst, most destructive criminals.
Kronos says:
November 17, 2021 at 3:28 am GMT • 200 Words
@Achmed E. Newman
I’ve been watching the legal case with legal commentary on YouTube. (A few hours now.) The prosecutors have been having a hell of a time with case. I agree this case simply shouldn’t have gone to trial. The prosecution has relied on perjured testimony from essentially Antifa/BLM thugs that Kyle’s defense attorneys have eviscerated on numerous occasions. The prosecutions’ expert witnesses have been further aiding the defense.

Police: It was a war zone. Most people that night were armed. Some were shooting in the air.

Gun experts: This guy got shot at near point blank melee range. He was likely rushing Kyle.

These are prosecution experts! Supposedly called in to tear down the defense. Kyle’s defense lawyers have been grilled online for not objecting nearly enough but with kind of testimony it only helps the defense. I’m guessing the defense is trying have the prosecution strangle itself with its own rope. To show the trial is politicalized and a nasty joke.

• Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
Corvinus says:
November 17, 2021 at 3:45 am GMT
@Reg Cæsar
You mean where would Kyle be. The entire incident was the crescendo; the peaceful protest the next day was to be expected given what all happened that night.

• LOL: Boomthorkell
• Troll: Tony massey
Kronos says:
November 17, 2021 at 3:45 am GMT • 100 Words
@Jonathan Mason

However it does perhaps point to a tendency on the part of judges to get a bit star-struck on themselves in the presence of cameras.

I haven’t been getting that vibe with this judge. It’s prosecutor Tom Binger who’s star dazzled with fancy suits, Star Wars “resistance” pins, and legal hail Mary’s to try and win the case. The most popular videos on the judge feature him pushing back against Binger’s bizarre legal overreaching. He seems like a competent no-nonsense Midwesterner.
Corvinus says:
November 17, 2021 at 3:49 am GMT
@Achmed E. Newman
You don’t have any contingency plans. Kyle is merely a prop to you. If you were even remotely serious about curb stomping your “enemies”, you would have done it by now. You just going to remain lamenting on your blog and on this fine opinion webzine. Carry on…

• LOL: Boomthorkell
• Troll: Tony massey
• Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
Negrolphin Pool says:
November 17, 2021 at 3:51 am GMT • 100 Words
@John Johnson
There’s a corollary to that. You must excise all leftists or anyone who shows a hint of it from your social circle and community. Was Portland a cove of degenerates in 1950? The left didn’t hold that territory or any because it is only capable of entropic destruction.

The antidote is extreme intolerance towards leftist tendencies, including total outcasting of serial transgressors and shunning with eventual outcasting of those who associate with them.

This is precisely the model seen in the California prison system, which represents a micro-society converged to an optimal state in a multicultural setting.

• Replies: @John Johnson
Negrolphin Pool says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:02 am GMT
@Corvinus
Projection.

I frequently see this mistake from women accustomed to idle serenity.

Do you grasp that for some men, perhaps 5%, it takes a considerable act of will to not go out and curbstomp enemies even ones manufactured for that sole purpose?
RobinG says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:03 am GMT
@Jonathan Mason
That wasn’t an Asian food joke, it was a supply chain joke. And more au courant than silly.
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:04 am GMT • 200 Words
@Paperback Writer

Right, so handily he’s sitting in a defendant’s chair, with a very good chance of spending years in jail. And PTSD.

Are you concern trolling, or are you actually crying about it, like some kind of Nancy Grace binging cat lady? If you’re sincerely weeping, I hope you’ve at least contributed to his defense fund. Otherwise, you’re bullshitting us.

BTW—I was speaking specifically to “the scene” and “the situation that night”. If a corrupt prosecutor (persecutor) is making life tough for Rittenhouse, you should reserve your criticism for that person and the system that makes it possible. Your umbrage regarding Rittenhouse’s actions is ridiculously misplaced and extremely condescending towards him.

Kyle shouldn’t have been there

Only if you think rioters should have exclusive run of the streets. Kyle didn’t share that view. Good on him.

Lemme ask you this: when the next Kenosha rolls around, where will you be? Doing the old keyboard jockey?

Given your fainting-couch exasperation about Rittenhouse’s actions, I assume you find the “keyboard jockey” path to be the most honorable. As for the “next Kenosha”… it may not be the same as the last Kenosha: known knowns, known unknowns, unknown unknowns and all that. And for you, unknown knowns (h/t Sailer): Keep your blinders on while I give you deserved licks from my riding crop. WHAP WHAP WHAP
Paperback Writer says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:11 am GMT • 200 Words

Given your fainting-couch exasperation about Rittenhouse’s actions,

Nope, the only thing I care about is Kyle’s future.

AFAIC, they should have called in the 82nd Airborne & mowed ’em all down.

I just don’t like a nice kid taking the rap for what the state should have done.

assume you find the “keyboard jockey” path to be the most honorable.

Yeah, sure, and I never pretended to be a big shot, the way you do.

‘ll let the police & National Guard take care of it, and if they don’t, it can all burn down for all I care. But I’m not going to be out there & I don’t recommend any 17 year old be. If you hate me for that, LOL. I don’t care what you think about me.

As for the “next Kenosha”… it may not be the same as the last Kenosha: known knowns, known unknowns, unknown unknowns and all that. And for you, unknown knowns (h/t Sailer):

Blah, blah, blah blah, blabbermouth. You are making absolutely no sense. Because I asked you a direct question and you cannot answer it.

So what is it: are you going to fight, or are you just going to taunt?

• Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
Paperback Writer says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:14 am GMT
@Sean
Second time: why did he resist arrest, Sean?
Paperback Writer says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:17 am GMT • 100 Words
@Sean

Yes he did when he was recounting his prepared account, but a courtroom drama of cross burns the defendant’s impromptu reply during back and forth into jurors’ minds and Kyle failed to win that one exchange as someone mentioned

Can you be more specific about this? It’s something I missed.
Sean says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:23 am GMT • 200 Words
@Paperback Writer
The point is that although the law does not specify a completely different set of criteria for police to lawfully shoot someone multiple times, such is in fact applied in practice. What happened to Blake was far more egregious that what Rittenhouse did; if he was any kind of cop there would be no fuss. Psaki called him a “vigilante”, but I think he was just larping.

David A. French: First, Kyle Rittenhouse wasn’t a hero. He was remarkably foolish to grab a rifle and insert himself into Kenosha’s unrest. He had no business walking into that fray. Second, his foolishness did not eliminate his right to self-defense.

Verdict: ‘Not Guilty And Don’t Do It Again’.

Being strapped with an AR-15 is larping, because it is a bluff that when it gets called makes the one pulling the trigger a profound loser. Anyone who goes up against it (or open carry pistol) knows right from the begining that he is inviting death so won’t unless he wants to end his life. Joseph Rosenbaum’s troubles are all over now.

• Replies: @Paperback Writer
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:33 am GMT • 100 Words
@Paperback Writer

it can all burn down for all I care

Nope, the only thing I care about is Kyle’s future.

From what you’ve written, you’re a too-cool-for-school nihilist BUT with a weird bleeding-heart fixation on what you imagine is Kyle Rittenhouse’s mental state.

Are you his momma? Do you want to be?

So what is it: are you going to fight, or are you just going to taunt?

I’ll always taunt the deserving. And if a fight comes to me, of course I’ll fight.

Does either offend you?

• Troll: Paperback Writer
• Replies: @Corvinus
Mr. Anon says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:48 am GMT
@Achmed E. Newman
Perhaps it wasn’t the jury, perhaps it was just the observers in the back of the courtroom. Look at the video posted on this thread. It sure looks like he’s pointing a gun at people in the court.

• Agree: Achmed E. Newman
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:55 am GMT
@RobinG

The misquote (or slip)

At the risk of stating the obvious: The substitution of nationally for globally was the intentional “modification” on my part. But it’s nice you at least remember the original.
The Anti-Gnostic says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:58 am GMT
@John Johnson
Agreed. Now the taxpayers will be paying disability to a paraplegic for the next 50+ years.
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:05 am GMT
@Corvinus

where would Kyle be had he stayed entirely away from a chaotic situation

“See, an ordinary person spends his life avoiding chaotic situations. Ritten-man spends his life getting into chaotic situations.”

• Replies: @Corvinus
Twinkie says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:07 am GMT • 500 Words
@John Johnson

Thanks dad.

With a better attitude, you might learn something new.

A modern 9mm hollow point will expand to .6 inches.

There are several factors to expansion of hollow point ammunition. First of all, almost all hollow point ammo only expands at certain velocity thresholds. In other words, below those thresholds, you might as well be using ball (or FMJ) ammo. Keep in mind that most ammo is NOT lab-tested with smaller handguns that are carried for self-defense – they are usually tested with full size guns with, more sliently, longer barrels that aid in achieving higher velocity.

Note, too, that hollow points can also fail to expand due to being “clogged” with the barest of barriers such as clothing (denim, etc.) and stop being hollow points.

And that’s not all. Even when the projectile expands to its fullest potential, there are other issues that bear upon lethality. The FBI, for example, specifies minimum penetration depths for the ammo supplied to its agents, because the bullets have to be able to penetrate clothing and skin (which is EXTREMELY flexible and rubbery), tissue, and still reach vital organs to be able to increase the odds of stopping the persons being shot from engaging in further acts of aggression.

So, what’s the problem with reliable expansion of hollow points? Well, when a hollow point bullet expands and mushrooms, it tends to dramatically lower penetration as it increases friction with the barriers and body tissue. Not all hollow points, therefore, meet the FBI requirements (in fact, very few did in the past).

As you can see, there is a rather delicate balance here. Too much expansion and not enough penetration, then the bullet fails to reach the vital organs (it does “wide,” but not “deep” damage). Not enough expansion, the bullet remains small, produces a narrow wound-channel, and could do a “through and through,” exit the body and dump all that kinetic energy elsewhere (granted, two holes make people bleed faster and increase the chance of later death, but don’t necessarily produce quick “stoppage” of the suspect that LEO seek). So bullet makers try to optimize and produce magic – a bullet that expands readily and rapidly and at low velocity out of small guns, but somehow still manage to penetrate certain depths specified by the FBI. It’s a very tight balance of “not too much, but not too little.”

If you take two 9mm hollow point rounds to the chest at point blank then you are probably hosed.

Listen, when dad tells you this. Dad can kill YOU with a couple of 22LR ammo at “point blank” range. Indeed, 22LR ammo used to be the cartridge that was responsible for the modal deaths in shootings in America.

But the reality is that handgun ammo, in general, produces much, much lower energy than centerfire long guns or shotgun buckshots/slugs. Statistically, with today’s advanced emergency medical services, most Americans who are shot with handguns survive while that is most certainly not the case with those who are shot with centerfire long guns/shotgun buck shots (e.g. double-ought) and slugs. The survivability of the latter is dramatically lower, even with advanced medical care.

• Replies: @That Would Be Telling
James B. Shearer says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:12 am GMT
@John Johnson
“… the local shopkeeps couldn’t even describe Antifa as responsible. They clearly thought that Trump or rayciss police on the other side of the country were really the problem. ..”

An alternate explanation is that they were afraid of Antifa.

• Agree: RobinG
• Replies: @John Johnson
Expletive Deleted says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:27 am GMT • 100 Words
@John Johnson
If Kyle had only a smoothbore musket (as liberals think the Constitution specifies) he wouldn’t have needed four shots to deck his attacker.
.75 cal./486gr. soft ball, pointblank at about 1500-1800 ft/s? Pretty much the same as a 12-gauge. Would have blown the little man into the middle of next week.
Expletive Deleted says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:37 am GMT • 100 Words
@Jim Bob Lassiter

juries don’t always obey the judges’ instructions.

Particularly when they can hear the mob and their loudhailers right there on the court steps while they’re out considering the verdict.
I doubt this would be tolerated for a minute in Europe (inc. UK). Baton, shield and doggo party time, and that’s just for starters.
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:45 am GMT
@Corvinus

Only those who dream to be Kyle, but don’t have the guile to pull it off like yourself, call him a hero. He’s more like a sacrificial lamb.

He’s more of a vessel, and certainly not the worst vessel to have in the fight, either.
JimDandy says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:46 am GMT • 100 Words
@Reg Cæsar
Oh, shit… maybe it was me. This was my immediate take:

JimDandy says:
August 27, 2020 at 1:11 am GMT • 1.2 years ago • 100 Words ↑
@John Johnson
He did amazing breakdance moves while expertly wielding a long gun and shooting people who were intent on maiming him for exercising his 2nd Amendment rights. In a just world, he would follow the trajectory of Audie Murphy and become a cinematic heartthrob. But this is not a just world that we are currently living in.
JimDandy says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:49 am GMT
@kaganovitch
If I named names then we’d both be in danger. Use your mashugana noggin!

• Agree: Richard B
Reg Cæsar says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:53 am GMT
@Paperback Writer

Lemme ask you this: when the next Kenosha rolls around, where will you be? Doing the old keyboard jockey?

Taylor, Pincher, Errican
May try to wine-and-dine us.
But when the Covid mask’s away,
You’ll see they’re all Corvinus.

• Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
JR Ewing says:
November 17, 2021 at 11:37 am GMT • 200 Words
@Martin Luther King
Oooh! I learned this in CHL class!

It’s not merely that he “provoked” the other party, it’s that he provoked them with a deadly weapon.

The first party to introduce deadly force into a confrontation forfeits its right to self-defense.

In other words, if you use a gun – or a knife, or a chainsaw, or whatever – to provoke a fight or escalate a fight, you are liable for whatever comes next because you are the one who introduced the deadly force into the conflict. Absent the deadly force, the opposing party would not have feared for his life, ergo he had no right to self-defense until you raised the stakes with that deadly weapon.

The problem with the “provocation” argument in this case is the evidence is consistent that young Kyle did nothing of the sort. He didn’t provoke a fight and he didn’t threaten anyone else. The prosecutors are merely relying on the leftist trope that the mere existence and Kyle’s possession of the gun was provocative: i.e., guns are bad, guns are scary, people with guns always intend to kill everyone else, therefore since Kyle had a gun he was automatically threatening the three bad guys and they were responding proportionally (with a skateboard).

Claiming that someone with a gun is automatically a threat is akin to giving a speeding ticket to the guy who parked his corvette in a parking lot, based only on the mere possibility of what it could be used for.

It’s a specious argument, but on that might work on some very weak minded people who could be on the jury.
Achmed E. Newman says: • Website
November 17, 2021 at 12:11 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Kronos
Thanks, Kronos. I gotta say that I can’t STAND videos like that, with commenters making smart remarks or noises while I’m trying to concentrate. I understand that was supposed to be a play-by-play, but that it was so annoying.

After-the-scene commenting would be good or just a few well-placed remarks to point out things that the viewer might not remember afterwards.

Anyway, I’d read about this particular bit of questioning in the court, and I agree that this should have made the verdict a no brainer. I suppose that’s why the ctrl-left is using mob tactics now, trying to scare the jurors into a guilty verdict. As I keep trying to explain to commenters here, don’t expect the left to honor any rule of law.
Richard B says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:21 pm GMT
@PhysicistDave

courage has become a rather rare commodity in the United States of America.

True. But, as opposed to where?
duncsbaby says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:23 pm GMT
@Nicholas Stix
I keep thinking that it’s really too bad that whether convicted or not he’s not going to be able to prove his mettle in a U.S. military worth a damn. Rittenhouse would made a great soldier.
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:34 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Reg Cæsar
Reg, I advise you shtick to anagrams: You’re no TOTC Desanex

Taylor, Pincher, Errican

I have a feeling the handle Reg Cæsar could take a real beating in the near future. For now you’ve chosen to be trite over contrite, but maybe some extra mockery from me will do you good. Let’s see if you behave. 🙂

• Thanks: Tony massey
Corvinus says:
November 17, 2021 at 12:53 pm GMT
@Jenner Ickham Errican
So what’s your excuse?

• Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
Jenner Ickham Errican says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:00 pm GMT
@Corvinus
Excuse for what?
Blodgie says:
November 17, 2021 at 1:19 pm GMT • 100 Words
@By-tor
No one has any kind of “Duty” to stop crime in any way.

That’s what we pay the unionized killers for.

If they don’t care, then why should these fools who want to be heroes?

Rotten house is just another dipshit who watched Band of Brothers too much and wanted in on the macho blood lust.

He’s emblematic of a type of low IQ young American who wants to die for abstractions so people will look up to him.

He’s proud cannon fodder, like military dupes.
Ralph L says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:24 pm GMT
@Paperback Writer
And for a Pakistani used car salesman who lied on the stand to save his slimy tanned ass?

And didn’t pay them as promised. Didn’t one of KR’s friends or relatives work there? He might have been trying to save his job.
That Would Be Telling says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:35 pm GMT
@magilla

Except for gun nerds, and those who picked up the call on Twitter and other social media but really have no clue, nobody noticed or cared.

You really think pointing the gun at the jurors and pulling the trigger had no effect whatsoever on them?

• Agree: Ben tillman
That Would Be Telling says:
November 17, 2021 at 4:46 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Ben tillman

I think the defense should have objected repeatedly to flagrant mischaracterizations of the facts and the law

They started doing that and the judge told them each time to bring it up in their closing arguments. After a few rounds of that you stop to avoid angering the judge, who right now is considering a new motion to declare a mistrial with prejudice, added grounds are the state initially delivering a low resolution version of the “Unicorn” video delivered by the “evidence fairy” (Andrew Branca’s words), and not revealing or delivering a copy of the original high resolution version until way too late, either before closing arguments or maybe after. Also a claim they’d lost their ability to enter into the trial such evidence.

And goes over, I assume repeating from the prior motion, just how egregious the state’s false attack on Rittenhouse’s supposed silence until the trial. Did it three times, of course being admonished by the judge each time. (Turns out Rittenhouse did talk to the police in his home town (Kenosha police refused to accept his surrender), pretty obviously said nothing damning then, I would guess yet another reason the defense trusted him to present himself well on the stand.)

• Replies: @Sean
That Would Be Telling says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:10 pm GMT • 300 Words
@Ralph L

This radio dude says the DA knew who the black jump kick man was but didn’t use him because he was another career criminal with multiple probation violations:
Dan O’Donnell

Wonder why the defense didn’t call him.

Already have gone over this in another Unz.com topic WRT to Ziminski, the guy who very possibly set up or set into motion the action with his “friend” Rosenbaum, and who was the first to start shooting, very possibly at Rittenhouse instead of “in the air.” Neither side called him, yet he’s the guy the state is insisting Rittenhouse threatened by pointing his rifle at him, invoking Wisconsin’s provocation law which would deny every claim of self-defense by Rittenhouse.

You start with the general principle that a lawyer avoids asking questions without knowing what the answers will be, and see how the state trashed their case with many if not most of the witnesses they called. You should then ask what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Is a criminal guilty of what Ziminski did, “fighting words” to urge the mentally ill and suicidal Rosenbaum to kill Rittenhouse plus starting the shooting, or here a “jump kick” assault you consider severe enough to rise to the level of deadly force, thus allowing your client to respond with deadly force, going to confess to his crimes?

Can’t count on everyone being as bad on the stand as Grosskreutz, and obviously the state didn’t call them, so either if called as witnesses by the defense would be expected to rely with denial, rebutting your client’s word and your theory of the defense, to the degree any juror would believe them over your client. I can’t see anything good to be likely coming from such a gambit.
John Johnson says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:14 pm GMT • 200 Words
@Negrolphin Pool
There’s a corollary to that. You must excise all leftists or anyone who shows a hint of it from your social circle and community. Was Portland a cove of degenerates in 1950? The left didn’t hold that territory or any because it is only capable of entropic destruction.

Entropic destruction? They dominate the system while the real anti-left is regulated to the internet. The left controls the schools and media while the opposition never truly challenges them. Our conservatives are just a temporary encumbrance to them.

Removing Antifa from Portland wouldn’t change that. The real left would retain their control and they would graduate another crop of dutiful soldiers.

In fact a lot of those leftists in the colleges are embarrassed by Antifa. They are already in an advantageous position and don’t want street dreg leftists threatening the order by calling attention to themselves.

The antidote is extreme intolerance towards leftist tendencies, including total outcasting of serial transgressors and shunning with eventual outcasting of those who associate with them.

That won’t do anything. Leftists have their own areas of influence and their own social circles. Every college graduation ceremony is a victory lap for them. They have entire college departments that are completely under their control. TV lets them tell their egalitarian fairy tales. What happens on the streets of Democrat cities means little when Whites go home to watch WakandaTV.
Ragno says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:15 pm GMT • 100 Words
@22pp22

What does it matter if the jury is terrorised?

I don’t know what you could possibly be referring to.

Imagine what’s going through the minds of Mafiosi doing life sentences, who had no idea you could just openly threaten jurors – and even entire municipalities – if the correct verdict isn’t arrived at…..and the entire apparatus of law enforcement, from the FBI to the cop on the beat, would dutifully look the other way and pretend they saw and heard nothing.
John Johnson says:
November 17, 2021 at 5:42 pm GMT • 200 Words
@James B. Shearer

the local shopkeeps couldn’t even describe Antifa as responsible. They clearly thought that Trump or rayciss police on the other side of the country were really the problem.

An alternate explanation is that they were afraid of Antifa.

Don’t make excuses for them. Antifa tried this in nearby Salem and the locals put up a fight. Andy Ngo had good coverage of it.

Democrat business owners in Portland put up BLM signs in their windows to show that they were allies. Didn’t work.

That Iranian Kenosha car lot owner actually testified against Kyle at the trial. They save his business from burning and he testifies against them. In fact it would have been easier for him to stay home and say nothing. So he actually put in effort to show up and testify.

I have been around too many of these urban White Democrats to think their businesses are worth defending. They can just file an insurance claim and use it as an excuse to take a vacation. They will blame Trump or Bad Whites and then play the situation to their benefit.
That Would Be Telling says:
November 17, 2021 at 6:12 pm GMT • 400 Words
@Twinkie

Not enough expansion, the bullet remains small, produces a narrow wound-channel, and could do a “through and through,” exit the body and dump all that kinetic energy elsewhere (granted, two holes make people bleed faster and increase the chance of later death, but don’t necessarily produce quick “stoppage” of the suspect that LEO seek).

As far as I’ve been able to discover, normal energy handgun stopping power happens in four ways: most commonly, after getting hit once the target stops the actions which prompted the shooting. Trayvon Martin is an example of this (he bled out inside his body after he stopped trying to kill Zimmerman).

Second is getting a central nervous system hit, spine or brain. Third is disabling something critical by direct action, Rittenhouse couldn’t know it quickly enough, but the pelvis hit on Rosenbaum probably did that (although that’s a rifle, not handgun energy case). Fourth is exactly what you outline and is of course not preferred, but it happens, the target’s blood pressure drops to the point he can’t continue.

Per Massad Ayoob the effort to ban hollow point bullets was all but stopped cold for the nation in Massachusetts (only New Jersey is a partial exception, but there everything having to do with guns is illegal there unless the law carves out an exception…). The people and legislature were Democrats but a lot more based than Bookline ruling trash lunatics like Dukakis, and one respected legislator was an experienced doctor. The details were laid out for them, the doctor nodding his head, that hollow point bullets took fewer rounds to stop, and that plus their lower tendency to make exit wounds means fewer people hit with them die.

Even the idiots who killed their gun culture in NYC eventually realized they were a lot better and safer than FMJ. Come to think of it, they also deform more when they hit hard objects, will consume more energy in such collisions. Which matters in a no gun culture city like NYC where most cops are awful shots, and are equipped with extra weight triggers to help ensure that.

• Replies: @John Johnson
, @Twinkie
Alden says:
November 17, 2021 at 6:16 pm GMT
@22pp22
It matters immensely if they are intimidated They will vote guilty as the mob demands. The National Guard is standing by. And will still be standing by as the town is burnt and looted.
Expletive Deleted says:
November 17, 2021 at 6:18 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Blodgie
He didn’t go to the “protest” (arson raid). It came to him.
He didn’t have a gun until he joined all the other volunteers at their assigned spots.
They were also similarly armed.
Thank God.
I know gas tanks under forecourts have all sorts of gnarly cutoffs, but those miserable, tired-of-life, armed failures massing against the townsfolk to loot and burn gave it all they got.
Instead of a Dinosaur Museum the main attraction would have been tours of The Crater.

The agents of the 1% tried to destroy the Dinosaur Museum!
Unforgiven.
Alden says:
November 17, 2021 at 6:30 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Ralph L
Black jumper contacted police after DUI arrest in June 2021. Offered to testify against hero Kyle in exchange for a plea. He never testified.

But district attorneys are required to turn over all evidence to the defense. Black jumper was evidence. DA didn’t turn the evidence over to defense. That’s a major no no. Grounds for an appeal although it’s rare for a White man to be given the same legal protections women and minorities have.
Even though the laws and rules of criminal procedure are supposed to apply to everyone.
Alden says:
November 17, 2021 at 6:42 pm GMT
@Sean
So?
John Johnson says:
November 17, 2021 at 7:09 pm GMT • 200 Words
@That Would Be Telling
As far as I’ve been able to discover, normal energy handgun stopping power happens in four ways: most commonly, after getting hit once the target stops the actions which prompted the shooting. Trayvon Martin is an example of this (he bled out inside his body after he stopped trying to kill Zimmerman).

Second is getting a central nervous system hit, spine or brain. Third is disabling something critical by direct action, Rittenhouse couldn’t know it quickly enough, but the pelvis hit on Rosenbaum probably did that (although that’s a rifle, not handgun energy case). Fourth is exactly what you outline and is of course not preferred, but it happens, the target’s blood pressure drops to the point he can’t continue.

Most people will drop from a single shot of any handgun bullet even if it doesn’t hit a vital organ. It’s an internet myth that most people can take the hit and keep fighting as long as the bullet is in the right place.

A 9mm bullet has more energy than getting hit with a bat by a professional baseball player. A 9mm can crack your ribs even if you have a bulletproof vest on.

If a professional baseball player walked up and cracked your ribs with a single hit of a bat it would be well outside the norm to continue standing. So yes handguns have stopping power that isn’t connected to hitting a specific organ or causing blood pressure drop.

Most people will flop and give up after one shot to anywhere.
Alden says:
November 17, 2021 at 7:47 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Paperback Writer
Jacob was probably on meth or some kind of upper. I believe he originally wanted to borrow her car. She refused. He was in the house in violation of the restraining order. He took her keys and attempted to steal her car. Robbery from a person not just theft.

Dumb as a rock drugged furious he was denied the car so insanely angry he couldn’t plan ahead 10 minutes to what would happen when the police arrived.

Like so many diversicants, he may be too retarded to understand violation of a restraining order means arrest. When police arrive at a fight it’s their option to arrest or not.

If there’s a restraining order the police have no option. That’s why restraining orders exist. Efficiency as well as protection No discussion. Get the violater out of there before the fight escalates.

• Replies: @RobinG
Roger says:
November 17, 2021 at 8:55 pm GMT
@Intelligent Dasein
Yes, I think Kyle was perceived as someone who could be easily bullied. His attackers thought that they could beat him up, and he would not fight back, and would not shoot.

Not a good reason for him losing his right to self-defense.
Twinkie says:
November 17, 2021 at 8:55 pm GMT • 100 Words
@That Would Be Telling
That’s a good summary. And, of the four you outlined, the CNS disruption is the surest way of achieving a stoppage, but is also one of the hardest. So center-mass hits are doctrinally taught, because that’s the next surest, but also much easier to achieve. That said, there is a lot of non-vital space in the torso and perpetrators of violent actions have sometimes survived long enough numerous (fatal later) hits to the body to continue to engage in violent actions, so there is a small minority of experienced LEOs who advocate headshots.
RobinG says:
November 17, 2021 at 8:59 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Alden

Jacob was probably on meth ….

You’re a great speculator and assumer, and apparently not reliable in what you claim as fact, i.e. you never answered this question –

Fine, [jr lifeguards are trained as EMTs].
Then why did Kyle agree with the prosecutor, under questioning, that he was not an EMT?

Was this revisited by the defense to clarify? It certainly left the impression that Kyle had claimed to be something that he wasn’t. If not, it’s an unnecessary loose end.

You’d be more believable if you didn’t spam the comments with your obsessive bias.
Sean says:
November 17, 2021 at 9:04 pm GMT • 100 Words
@That Would Be Telling

I would guess yet another reason the defense trusted him to present himself well on the stand.

Rittenhouse is a youth who still has a lot to learn about how the world works; he needed a first class attorney who would play safe rather than adopt the risky strategy of putting his client on the stand. The defense’s job is not to get to the truth but get their client acquitted of all charges.

• Replies: @Alden
RobinG says:
November 17, 2021 at 10:47 pm GMT
@John Johnson

I do not support dropping off a 17 year at a riot in a Democrat city where no one is supervising him.

How many times do you have to be told, he wasn’t “dropped off” and he wasn’t unsupervised.

• Replies: @John Johnson
Paperback Writer says:
November 17, 2021 at 10:55 pm GMT
@Sean

The point is that although the law does not specify a completely different set of criteria for police to lawfully shoot someone multiple times, such is in fact applied in practice.

Again, why did Blake resist?
Ben tillman says:
November 17, 2021 at 11:47 pm GMT
@JR Ewing
The “showed up with a gun looking to start trouble” argument is illegal. It misrepresents the law. The defense should have objected, and the judge should have disallowed it.

• Replies: @That Would Be Telling
Ben tillman says:
November 17, 2021 at 11:54 pm GMT
@obwandiyag
To protect what? To protect himself, dumbass.
Ben tillman says:
November 17, 2021 at 11:56 pm GMT
@Jonathan Mason
Why would it change anything? Half the population would agree with him.
Alden says:
November 18, 2021 at 12:11 am GMT • 100 Words
Newsmax ^ | November 17, 2021
The jury at Kyle Rittenhouse’s murder trial will be allowed to review some of the video in the Kenosha shootings, after their request on the second day of deliberations Wednesday triggered debate between the judge and opposing attorneys over how to accommodate the request. The judge, meanwhile, expressed irritation over the media’s coverage and legal experts’ commentary on some of his decisions, saying he would “think long and hard” about allowing televised trials in the future. Jurors were weighing charges against Rittenhouse for a second day after they failed to reach a swift verdict Tuesday on whether he was the…

Good news. Police state they are finding bricks all over town.
Alden says:
November 18, 2021 at 12:17 am GMT • 100 Words
@Jonathan Mason
Honest people who don’t shoplift \$950 worth of goods from 4 stores in in one day seriously resent those who do.

Especially when they get knocked down in a swarm of several shoplifters with big trash bags each shoplifting \$950 .

This is not stealing a few toiletries clothes or food for personal use this is organized crime level shoplifiting legalized by state governments in search of homeless drug addict and black votes
Alden says:
November 18, 2021 at 12:20 am GMT • 100 Words
@Sean
Kyle has a first class attorney. It’s the decision of the defendant and his attorney to decide if the defendant will testify. In the American system most defendants are guilty. When a defendant is onnicent and the attorney is sure of that fact, its an excellent idea to let the defendant tell his story

• Replies: @Hibernian
, @Sean
That Would Be Telling says:
November 18, 2021 at 12:26 am GMT • 100 Words
@Ben tillman

The “showed up with a gun looking to start trouble” argument is illegal. It misrepresents the law. The defense should have objected, and the judge should have disallowed it.

As far as the state using this trope in the closing arguments, the defense gave up objecting about Binger’s lies about the law after the judge kept denying them, telling the defense to cover them in their closing! Which ignores the state getting the final word after the defense’s closing, and the judge’s duty to decide issues of law such as that. Like his eventually dropping the “minor in possession of a deadly weapon” charge, since the presented facts didn’t provide and evidence in favor of it after the exceptions are considered.

• Agree: Ben tillman
John Johnson says:
November 18, 2021 at 12:46 am GMT • 100 Words
@RobinG

I do not support dropping off a 17 year at a riot in a Democrat city where no one is supervising him.

How many times do you have to be told, he wasn’t “dropped off” and he wasn’t unsupervised.

Oh ok which organization was he a part of and who was his direct report?

He was unsupervised as seen by the fact that he wandered off by himself to put out a fire.

• Replies: @RobinG
Hibernian says:
November 18, 2021 at 1:16 am GMT
@Alden
Kyle, like any defendant, had the right to testify (whether statutory or Constitutional, I don’t know) or not testify (5th A) even agains the advice of his lawyer. That may or may not be what happened.
Corn says:
November 18, 2021 at 1:50 am GMT
@Ben tillman
I’ve thought the same thing

• Agree: Ben tillman
Corn says:
November 18, 2021 at 1:56 am GMT
@Dmon
I remember seeing pictures on Twitter, antifa tried to stage a demonstration in some small city in Utah of all places. It went nowhere because some sort of local Mormon “militia” showed up wearing army surplus BDUs and facemasks, beating them to the punch.
The Anti-Gnostic says:
November 18, 2021 at 3:49 am GMT
@JR Ewing
He’s a non-jacked seventeen-year old who’s only 68″ tall. He out-fought and out-gunned three people from a threatening crowd much more experienced in street violence. He really did astoundingly well.

• Agree: Ben tillman
• Replies: @Sean
RobinG says:
November 18, 2021 at 5:34 am GMT • 100 Words
@John Johnson
What’s the chance that anyone reading Steve Sailer at the Unz Review can’t answer this? So what value is there in engaging such trolling? Very, very slim, but just in case…

1. Kyle was part on the [oft cited, hysterically] citizen militia. Whether it was a formal organization or an ad hoc posse is irrelevant.

2. A senior member of said militia instructed Kyle to head out towards that parking lot, and bring his fire extinguisher. He was not “wandering.”

IDK what status you’ve achieved around here, by way of car-talk or anti-semitism or whatever, (maybe, direct report, you like to play soldier), that nobody just tells you to fuck the hell off. After all the time you’ve spent on it, you still persist in the most ignorant and shallow allegations. Seems disingenuous.
Nicholas Stix says: • Website
November 18, 2021 at 2:43 pm GMT
@Dmon
Thank you.
Bizarro World Observer says:
November 18, 2021 at 5:34 pm GMT
@John Johnson
You’re assuming that all the jurors are serious, logical, and unprejudiced. And that they’re not afraid of being doxed and attacked.

Is that really a safe assumption?
Sean says:
November 18, 2021 at 9:35 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Alden

When a defendant is innocent and the attorney is sure of that fact, its an excellent idea to let the defendant tell his story

That is only true if the prosecution case is so strong the defendant has nothing to lose. The prosecution case against Rittenhouse was extremely weak and the video of the two incidents was objectively favoring the defence, so what was to be gained by subjecting the defendant to a cross examination on his subjective mental state; one in which he had to win every exchange against a trained professional?
Sean says:
November 19, 2021 at 4:43 pm GMT • 100 Words
@The Anti-Gnostic
He fell over after a little slap on the back of the head, then he was hit with a flying kick and missed with two shots at the black who did it. Those misses were the best thing he did that day. In-the-back of a black would have meant he was as good as already convicted of murder. Rittenhouse is lacking in restraint on the street and at the table; he neglected his physical fitness.

• Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
, @The Anti-Gnostic
Johann Ricke says:
November 19, 2021 at 7:12 pm GMT
@Paperback Writer

If he walks free, he’ll be forgotten in a few years. Let us pray it’s the latter.

This is being played up as the second coming of Emmett Till. Rittenhouse is a name that will live in infamy. The insanity isn’t over yet.
The Anti-Gnostic says:
November 20, 2021 at 7:32 am GMT • 100 Words
@Sean
Again, a short, non-jacked 17-year old put two tax eaters in their graves and shot the bicep off a third in a crowd very experienced in street violence. The rioters’ enthusiasm for violence and property damage dried up notably after that and within a week all protests ended. What did you accomplish, tough guy?

The lesson for the Left is, if the cops won’t defend the civil order then the Rittenhouses and McMichaels will. They’d probably prefer the cops.

• Replies: @Corvinus
The Anti-Gnostic says:
November 20, 2021 at 7:41 am GMT
@Sean
Honestly, the kid did superb.

FLAMED pic.twitter.com/nKkchhf9Ke

— أنت شاذ (@USAMODERATEGUY) November 19, 2021
Corvinus says:
November 20, 2021 at 11:56 am GMT • 100 Words
@The Anti-Gnostic
The better question is will you (and others) pull a Kyle in the future by guarding someone else’s property—in this case, apparently two ungrateful “vibrants”—on a moments notice anytime there is civil disorder.

So many here are lionizing him when he took out some degenerates despite a police order for everyone to leave/stay away. but are they willing to become a citizen soldier and “adult marksmen” in the future, given how the supposedly enemy—white genocide—is steadily advancing?

So, what is your excuse? Are you committed to the cause just like Rittenhouse, or is he simply your wind up toy?
The Anti-Gnostic says:
November 20, 2021 at 3:01 pm GMT
Maybe we will. If the State won’t provide a civil order, someone else will. QED, once the Right starts shooting back, Leftist desire for street violence and property damage simmers down quick.

• Replies: @Corvinus
Corvinus says:
November 20, 2021 at 5:35 pm GMT
@The Anti-Gnostic
Lol. Posing for a camera with beers and long guns in tow is a show of unity, not a show of force. Until they actually pull a Kyle, they’re only posturing.

• Replies: @Sean
Sean says:
November 20, 2021 at 6:26 pm GMT
@Corvinus

Posturing is the whole point. Considering Kyle is kinda Hispanic he understood quite well it is about larping to the utmost. When it got real little Kyle followed (the 6’8”) Hickock45’s sage advice: run away. That is the real tacticool thing to do.
Corvinus says:
November 20, 2021 at 11:11 pm GMT • 100 Words
@Jenner Ickham Errican
“I’ll always taunt the deserving. And if a fight comes to me, of course I’ll fight.“

But the fight has come to you. The enemy is everywhere. They are evil. That gives you justification to pull to a Kyle.

No, in the end, he is merely a prop to make yourself feel good for something you say you would do, but will avoid at all costs.

And that’s bottom line fact. So just stop pretending.

• Replies: @Boomthorkell
Boomthorkell says:
November 21, 2021 at 12:42 am GMT • 100 Words
@Corvinus
Man, I think you’re upset that someone finally took your advice and it worked out perfectly.

Don’t worry Corvinus, I’m sure there are plenty more opportunities for us to shoot Child Rapists who attempt to murder us.

I’ll be sure when the opportunity comes you’ll get a front row seat ; )