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College admissions cheating by American celebrities is more fun, but … From Los Angeles Magazine:
A Chinese Cheating Ring at UCLA Reveals an Industry Devoted to Helping International Students Scam Grades
Operation TOEFL Recall was overshadowed by Operation Varsity Blues, but it’s just as scandalous
By Christopher Beam -April 26, 2019… According to prosecutors, Cai, along with four current and former UCLA students and another student at Cal State Fullerton, helped at least 40 Chinese nationals obtain student visas by fraudulently taking the TOEFL, an English proficiency exam, on their behalf. Cai’s ringers would show up to testing sites with fake Chinese passports bearing their own photos but with the names of the clients. Where Cai slipped—and where investigators caught up to him—was charging 39 test registration payments to his credit card.
Any other day the UCLA bust might have made national headlines, but the news got swamped by a bigger, sexier college cheating scandal: Operation Varsity Blues. (The UCLA investigation was dubbed “Operation TOEFL Recall.”) While the UCLA case is less shocking—bribes in thousands of dollars instead of millions; Chinese high schoolers instead of Full House cast members—it represents an equally notable underbelly of American college admissions. …
It’s hard to find data on cheating that is broken down by country of origin, but a survey of 14 public universities by The Wall Street Journal found that in the 2014-15 school year, those universities reported cheating among international students at a rate five times higher than among domestic students. In 2018 a professor at UC Santa Barbara told the Los Angeles Times that Chinese students comprise 6 percent of the student body but account for a third of plagiarism cases. A 2016 study conducted by United Kingdom newspaper The Times says that students from outside the European Union were four times more likely to cheat than U.K. and European Union students. …
But domestic students have access to these schemes, too. Why do international students exploit them more? Experts I spoke with cited family pressure, as many young Chinese students are only children and the first in their families to study abroad; opportunity, as cheating companies actively hawk their services in Mandarin to incoming students; and a general lack of preparedness for the rigors of an education in a non-native language. “The biggest factor is not their international status but going to school in a language that they’re not proficient in,” says David Rettinger, president of the International Center for Academic Integrity. …
Cheating can self-perpetuate if unchecked. Chen tells the story of a student who faked his TOEFL score to get into Purdue University. Once there, he paid someone to attend classes for him. His (employee’s) grades were good enough that he got into Columbia University for grad school, but then, struggling, he hired someone to take his classes there, too. Hoping to land a job at Goldman Sachs, he sought Chen’s help. “I think his English was at a high school level,” Chen says. All told, the beleaguered Chinese student spent nearly $1.2 million on not going to school.
Have American academics ever researched the extent of Chinese cheating? Is anybody publicly shaming American colleges and testing institutions that let it happen? Or are too many powerful institutions making money off replacing American students paying discounted tuition with cheating Chinese students paying list price?
That would require a spine.
Of course not, that would be racist.
Though I do wonder if the Chinese government (or rich Chinese people) are throwing money around to keep it quiet.
I met many Chinese students at UCSD in the last few years. Some were making an effort to get onto the American wavelength, and I could feel a decent connection. But too many others had this detached, mechanical manner, barely able to speak English and lacking the normal transactional “bounce”. One way to get through to these types, I found, was to congratulate them for Liu Xiaobo getting the Nobel Prize, the 1st Chinese to do so in China (while in jail for being a dissident). Yeah, now they will engage: with hostile denial. I came to like the first type, and to dislike the chi-com Bot types, and I always wondered, what are they doing here exactly?
Colonizing.
His response, verbatim: "Yup. And you guys are going down."
You see invaders and foreigners gaming our system, and you want to get to know them, become buddies with them. What happened to you? Do you have no love for your people, your family?
I see these same Chinese "students" and I want them arrested in a very unpleasant way, thrown in prison for six months where they'll become some animal's China Doll and then put on a work ship back to China. And that's when I'm feeling nice. When I'm not feeling nice, well, we won't go there.
Do you not see what's happening here, where it's going to lead?
What are they doing here? Having an American degree is prestigious, even in high Party circles. I'll bet that Xi is going to try to change this soon, but for now it's still a good credential to have. Mainly they are here to learn - the idea is to take the knowledge that you gain here back home and use it to increase the wealth and strength of China.
As for commiebots I think it is probably a product of Xi. Due to the gaokao many young people including me only began to experience the wider society after graduating from high school. Colleges are not hard in China once you get in through the gaokao. It is for people who were previously mostly just bookworms to make friends, learn about the society and usually...get a partner (because you are not supposed to get a partner in high school in China, again this is about not having any distractions from preparing for the gaokao).
When I was in college it was during the Hu period. Many people secretly had sympathies for Liu Xiaobo. Just like Tiananmen Massacre (we called it "Jun.4th Incident" or "May 35th Incident" the latter is a censorship circumventing term) it is something we talked about in the school cafeteria where the authorities weren't listening. My dorm was openly anti-commie lmao.
Maybe things have really changed since Xi came to power. It is frightening. My generation is pretty much the least commie and most free one in recent Chinese history..Only pre-commie days between 1912 and 1949 were more free.
I may have shared this before, but a colleague at Georgia Tech told me that his university accepted Chinese graduate students with a passing TOEFL from China contingent on their taking and passing another TOEFL once in the US.
They were experiencing an inundation of doctoral students, some of whom were supposed to teach, who could barely order a meal in English. Of course, as an undergrad I had a similar experience in 1980 with a Japanese TA, so I guess this has been a problem for decades.
I don't blame the occasional foreign student who does know English proficiently, but, unless he came over here at 10 years old, the accent will remain. None of them should be put into teaching positions, PERIOD, but that'd be discriminatory and racist, right?
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* I only separate them from Grad Students on the learning side, just due to the fact that the engineering/science grad schools are almost completely foreign anyway, so everyone has to communicate equally poorly.
My son just finished a class where the professor's English was sub-par, so he learned mostly from the textbook and the tutors.
Yes, it irks me. When you're paying as much as people pay these days for college, you should at least be able to count on good communication.
And "international?" P00-bah. It's "Foreign."
There’s too much money on the line for anyone to research it, and the problem is much, much bigger than anyone is willing to acknowledge.
For instance, there are certain peer-research editing services that allegedly help researches and academics whose native language isn’t English clean up there work for publication in English language journals. The “editing” that ends up getting done is so extensive that it crosses the line into what most people would consider cheating.
Thus completing the new American success story.
It’s been suggested that cheating is the new skill set that will mark successful people.
Paging Dr. Derb :
What a great topic for your next ThanksDragongiving family reunion!
Asked of the whole lot: Somali policeman; subcontinentals writing bad code; MS 13 gang members and their support staff.
Across the road from me, a Mexican national was supposed to be farming, but he never grew a crop for several years. Word was he loaded up on every farm program; entry level loan program; and various other handouts (SSI, food stamps, etc.) and did pretty well; even spent a year in prison for assault and didn’t lose his standing in the programs.
I’d like to know what he was doing here, exactly.
I’ll never tell anyone they haven’t got a Chinaman’s chance again.
Recent anecdote:
I was talking with a professor friend who teaches an honors philosophy seminar at a respectable university. He told me that his class size had dropped significantly within the first several weeks of the year, as it had become clear that many of the foreign students had English skills that were much worse than their applications suggested. It’s kind of hard to engage in a Socratic dialogue about the Euthyphro with people who can barely communicate with you. He said that the students were removed from the honors program, but not from the university. Nobody wants to disrupt the flow of tuition dollars.
People would not believe how much the Chinese engineering students cheat. I would be surprised to find one in ten thousand who doesn’t. It’s expected.
We didn't know the kid had been caught cheating before, or he would have been kicked out of the department. He told us flat out - "My parents say I have to get the engineering degree or I will not get to take over the restaurant." He had no intention of using any of this tax-payer funded knowledge and understanding. I guess you can't kick someone out for that alone, but maybe you should ... "That's not the point", I told him. "When you get this degree, it says you are an engineer. You need to learn the stuff, no matter who runs your parents' restaurant."
He was a nice, friendly guy, and everybody liked him. He happened to be driving one of the nicer cars in the crowd. Who knew then that a coupla decades later, the whole department would be Chinese? They'd probably let him get the restaurant-owner waiver now.
He claims he never had a Chinese student who didn't cheat.
OT
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/01/denisovan-jawbone-discovered-in-tibetan-cave
They were experiencing an inundation of doctoral students, some of whom were supposed to teach, who could barely order a meal in English. Of course, as an undergrad I had a similar experience in 1980 with a Japanese TA, so I guess this has been a problem for decades.
Good effort by Tech, but really, no matter how good these Grad Students speak and understand English, their heavy accents make it very hard for undergrad students to understand them*, which is not at all a good deal for their, well, probably the future taxpayers’, money. Yes, HAS been like this for a long time.
I don’t blame the occasional foreign student who does know English proficiently, but, unless he came over here at 10 years old, the accent will remain. None of them should be put into teaching positions, PERIOD, but that’d be discriminatory and racist, right?
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* I only separate them from Grad Students on the learning side, just due to the fact that the engineering/science grad schools are almost completely foreign anyway, so everyone has to communicate equally poorly.
I remember all too well, at 40+ years on now, the absurdity of some Oriental TA babbling away in front of 250 bleary eyed Chem 102 students, comprehensively mangling compound names like methionylglutaminylarginyltyrosylglutamylserylleucylphenylalanylalanylglutaminylleucyllysylglutamylarginyllysylglutamylglycylalanylphenylalanylvalylprolylphenylalanylvalylthreonylleucylglycylaspartylprolylglycylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysylisoleucylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutamylalanylglycylalanylaspartylalanylleucylglutamylleucylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylalanylserylaspartylprolylleucylalanylaspartylglycylprolylthreonylisoleucylglutaminylasparaginylalanylthreonylleucylarginylalanylphenylalanylalanylalanylglycylvalylthreonylprolylalanylglutaminylcysteinylphenylalanylglutamylmethionylleucylalanylleucylisoleucylarginylglutaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonylisoleucylprolylisoleucylglycylleucylleucylmethionyltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalylphenylalanylasparaginyllysylglycylisoleucylaspartylglutamylphenylalanyltyrosylalanylglutaminylcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylvalylaspartylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylaspartylvalylprolylvalylglutaminylglutamylserylalanylprolylphenylalanylarginylglutaminylalanylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvalylalanylprolylisoleucylphenylalanylisoleucylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartylaspartylaspartylleucylleucylarginylglutaminylisoleucylalanylseryltyrosylglycylarginylglycyltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylserylarginylalanylglycylvalylthreonylglycylalanylglutamylasparaginylarginylalanylalanylleucylprolylleucylasparaginylhistidylleucylvalylalanyllysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasparaginylalanylalanylprolylprolylleucylglutaminylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylserylalanylprolylaspartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylalanylisoleucylaspartylalanylglycylalanylalanylglycyllanylisoleucylserylglycylserylalanylisoleucylvalyllysylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylhistidylasparaginylisoleucylglutamylprolylglutamyllysylmethionylleucylalanylalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalanylvalylglutaminylprolylmethionyllysyl alanylalanylthreonylarginylserine.
Good times!
Aside from the cheating, I think the situation is actually better now than in the past because Engrish language instruction has improved (so many tools available online, in phones, etc.) and kids are motivated to learn English at an earlier age in order to access pop culture. If you start studying Engrish after puberty it's pretty much a lost cause as far as pronunciation goes because at some point your brain loses the ability to reprogram the sounds you are capable of making and there is a high degree of non-overlap between the phonemes needed to speak English and most Asian languages. There are still a lot of Chinese that speak terrible Engrish but there is also an increasing # who speak decent to good English as well.
This is going back quite a ways, when even the Grad Schools were 90% Americans, but this one undergrad Chinese kid, who was VERY assimilated, BTW, was caught cheating on a lab report. The guy had used the stuff from the last semester and the instructor had changed the data each semester for this very reason.
We didn’t know the kid had been caught cheating before, or he would have been kicked out of the department. He told us flat out – “My parents say I have to get the engineering degree or I will not get to take over the restaurant.” He had no intention of using any of this tax-payer funded knowledge and understanding. I guess you can’t kick someone out for that alone, but maybe you should … “That’s not the point”, I told him. “When you get this degree, it says you are an engineer. You need to learn the stuff, no matter who runs your parents’ restaurant.”
He was a nice, friendly guy, and everybody liked him. He happened to be driving one of the nicer cars in the crowd. Who knew then that a coupla decades later, the whole department would be Chinese? They’d probably let him get the restaurant-owner waiver now.
Let’s just say I wouldn’t leave an open Coca-Cola around anywhere Chinese students are thick on the ground.
Their sense of humor is a bit strange – to put it mildly.
Chinese cheating is a myth. Just ask any east Asian here.
Once again I pose this:
Given: We have observed an inordinate number of Chinese students cheating on tests, assignments and admissions.
Given: There is a high level of corruption in Chinese society.
Given: There is overwhelming pressure on students in China to get high scores, even if cheating is required.
Question: Why do we believe the number claimed to be the average Chinese IQ? Where does the data come from, how is it obtained, and who is providing it?
It fits with other data. Chinese kids do best of any kids in UK schools. Chinese merchants/traders have been long recognised for their savvy, which is why Chinese in Indonesia or Malaya are an (often resented) business class.
And China is now the world manufacturing centre (admittedly Japan may be better in quality, but quantity has a quality all of its own).
Just ask them.
This presupposes that the Chinese don't find the act of cheating to be a morally dubious proposition - so, they're going to do it unless and until they get caught. Westerners and Western Institutions are so far in the grip of cultural auto-masochism that the kinds of controls which would catch the Chinese in the act (and institute shaming, and thereby deter others) are out of the question, particularly so if the Chinese would play the "discrimination" gambit. So the Chinese will cheat and succeed by cheating in perpetuity.
I suppose this raises the question of the prevalence of cheating in Chinese communities in the West, and the extent that cheating remains a means to an end which Chinese are comfortable engaging in and for how many generations after arrival in a Western nation.
On the whole I'm not sanguine about Asian immigration into the United States, where normal and bright American kids are going to be outclassed by a combination of shame-based motivation of Asian kids (psychological abuse), cram-schooling and "hacking" the curricula, together with outright cheating.
When I refer to "hacking" the curricula, I refer to things like a story recounted by a commenter here that an Asian kid in his kid's peer group recently spent a summer learning the next year's mathematics subject (Geometry I think it was), but took the Geometry class anyway in the next year so that he'd score an A and top the curve without having to exert himself (and, I suppose, leaving him more time to devote to other subjects). So instead of spending the summer reading for interest, playing baseball, having a part time job and learning social skills by spending time with his peers in a normal, culturally typical American summer the Asian kid was preparing to juice his future college applications. I think this is a good part of why Asians underperform in elite institutions and in life generally - they're often academically finished products who present themselves as applicants in a system which is supposed to select for academic aptitude and predict future academic performance at higher levels. There's a limit to where grinding can get you as you proceed to higher and higher levels of academic challenge - at a certain point where your competition is rarefied and the material is more complex you'll be exposed.
To me it should be something we think about in terms of whether we want normal American kids competing for dwindling opportunities against these victims of childhood psychological abuse whose chief stratagem is foregoing all other dimensions of human development beyond rote memorization of academic topics achieved by mindless repetition.
1. Overseas Chinese, including the children of prole peasants who immigrated to be unskilled agricultural workers, all test around 105, going back 100 years.
2. Close relatives South Koreans and Japanese also test around 105 in high quality national tests.
3. Extreme Chinese overperformance on g-loaded tasks everywhere they have settled.
4. Low-stakes testing with no incentive to cram/cheat.
5. Higher Chinese IQ is also consistent with a lot of other indirect evidence, like fitting perfectly with Rushton’s NE Asian - White - Black ordering in a large number of human traits, including brain weight.
WHEREAS: There is a high level of corruption in Chinese society.
WHEREAS: There is overwhelming pressure on students in China to get high scores, even if cheating is required.
THIS MAY 2ND ON THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 2019, THE RESOLUTION HEREBY ORDAINED SAYS: Why do we believe the number claimed to be the average Chinese IQ? Where does the data come from, how is it obtained, and who is providing it?
***************************
There, Buzz, I did a replace on your "Given"s with "WHEREAS" and that "Question" with somet highfalutin lawyer crap so's the lawmakers could understand it. They were led to believe during the election process that there would be no math!
Is it possible that someone cheats for national prestige? Sure. But you'll find that cheating among average Chinese is usually aimed towards making money.
There is apparently a big problem of Chinese cheating at online videogames as well.
Test takers are no longer needed for thick headed students. Those marking the test results are key to a passing grade. College administrators are the foundation of the scam. Costs are high for Getting good grades. The arrangements are made between the parents lawyers and the college. Students are seldom aware of the scam.
“Why do we believe the number claimed to be the average Chinese IQ?”
It fits with other data. Chinese kids do best of any kids in UK schools. Chinese merchants/traders have been long recognised for their savvy, which is why Chinese in Indonesia or Malaya are an (often resented) business class.
And China is now the world manufacturing centre (admittedly Japan may be better in quality, but quantity has a quality all of its own).
The back of the phone can only be described as, 'jewel-like.' The glass covering the screen is more scratch-resistant than the material used on my work-provided Samsung S8+. The Xiaomi was also available for $200 less than the Samsung.
My father is an academic in India and on the Editorial Board of some IEEE journals. He says that IEEE sends, every couple of months or so, a few hundred names of faculty members who are barred from publishing in IEEE journals for 5 years because of plagiarism. Chinese and Indian faculty comprise more than a majority of the names, with Chinese being the larger number. Of course, this is partly linked to the incentive structure domestically (even in private Indian University degree mills, there is an incentive to getting a PhD, without which one cannot be a “Professor”, and can only rise up to being an Associate Professor). So there is rampant cheating in academics even at a higher level. That said, everyone in India believes it is very hard to cheat in the IIT entrance examinations. I guess it is the same with the Chinese bureaucracy entrance examinations. My point is that there is a strong penchant to cheat, at the same time, in some cases, systems which are foolproof have designed in both countries.
The ideal of this system is a professor that hands out an exam, leaves the room and comes back to collect the exam papers at the end, fully confident none of his students would cheat.
Chinese and other students don't accept the honor system. They believe it is authorities job to monitor the students to make sure they don't cheat. If the authorities aren't putting in anti-cheating rules then they are inviting the students to cheat.
The only Chinese person I know with a decent grasp of English happens to live down the road from me and works as an English/Chinese translator
Oh, now I understand why, “They all look alike to me!” is racist.
They’re here for the F1 to OPT/H1b to green card gravy train as promised by their US college recruiters, so their parents can get the hell out of China with their ill gotten gains before they get thrown in jail.
As a small data point, about Chinese quality and cheating, if you have to buy a Chinese tool (and it is hard to avoid them) they are always pure crap. A hammer from China will have a loose head within a week and will have to be fixed. A fricking wire brush from China will lose its bristles after two weeks of hard rust brushing. Pure junk. I would much rather buy a 50 year old American or German tool and restore it than have to waste money on a Chinese anything. Oh – my son who is a hard science major tells me that it is well known at his university that the Chinese cheat on everything and that as someone noted above, the foreign grad students who teach are completely non-understandable and do not care a whit what goes on in the labs (which are graded) that they are supposed to be supervising. The quality around this US of A is declining and this is not some kind of old man – things were better in my day. The quality is in decline.
The plastic bristles came apart en masse with the first use.
Crappy stuff. Limited selection.
A few year ago, the CEO of Toyota, a man with an MBA from Babson, was called in from of some house committee, and he spoke through interpreters. In normal circumstances, his fake MBA would have been used as evidence of poor character, but no representative complained. How was that China's fault?
This is all part of the plan. Why would they ever be turned away? Our colleges get to take the parents’ ill gotten gains and brainwash their kids into accepting and propagating the (((New))) World Order.
The Chinese cheat almost as often per capita and virtually as effectively as do Jews.
That said, isn’t it interesting that John Derbyshire, who has a very long track record of bashing all kinds of non-WASP whites, has spent most of his career gently defending and excusing Jews and seeing a great deal of good in Mrs Derbyshire’s nation and race?
Chinese cheaters seem both desperate and boring. Not at all like the American kids in our old movies.
I would also add that, per Mr. Newman (comment #14), the Chinese are apparently willing to go to the effort of obtaining an engineering degree, so as to be allowed to inherit a restaurant from their parents.
Leaving aside the possibility that the story isn’t true – and I hope it is true, because it’s hilarious – think of the psychology behind it. Unless “the restaurant” is the brand name of a chain, it’s highly unlikely that owning a restaurant would make this man as much money as being an engineer, and the effort, even through cheating, of getting into graduate school, would probably have cost him an extraordinary amount of time and money.
Why would he bother?
Why would his parents stipulate an engineering degree as a requirement for owning a restaurant?
Answer: the real motive, in both cases, is the avoidance of shame.
Question: does it shame the Chinese to be thought of as lower IQ? Even average IQ?
And I still haven't heard how the IQ numbers themselves are obtained. Furthermore, no one has proven to me that China tests ALL of it's people, particularly the ones way out there living like peasants. How good is China, really, at testing and compiling ALL of it's people's IQ scores? And how do we know they don't inflate them?
Responders here have given good reasons, however, to believe in high Chinese average IQ. Since I am a believer in, and user of, intuition, I will not argue against them.
It was a different time, and back then, getting some Sociology degree would be seen as pretty much the same waste of time as I myself see it as now. Though he would probably never use a lick of his education, I think that you are right that his parent could be proud that "my son is an engineer"*
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* Yes, a CCC engineer (Cheap-Chicken-Cookin') but a degreed CCC engineeer nonetheless!
I don't blame the occasional foreign student who does know English proficiently, but, unless he came over here at 10 years old, the accent will remain. None of them should be put into teaching positions, PERIOD, but that'd be discriminatory and racist, right?
.
* I only separate them from Grad Students on the learning side, just due to the fact that the engineering/science grad schools are almost completely foreign anyway, so everyone has to communicate equally poorly.
Achmed;
I remember all too well, at 40+ years on now, the absurdity of some Oriental TA babbling away in front of 250 bleary eyed Chem 102 students, comprehensively mangling compound names like methionylglutaminylarginyltyrosylglutamylserylleucylphenylalanylalanylglutaminylleucyllysylglutamylarginyllysylglutamylglycylalanylphenylalanylvalylprolylphenylalanylvalylthreonylleucylglycylaspartylprolylglycylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysylisoleucylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutamylalanylglycylalanylaspartylalanylleucylglutamylleucylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylalanylserylaspartylprolylleucylalanylaspartylglycylprolylthreonylisoleucylglutaminylasparaginylalanylthreonylleucylarginylalanylphenylalanylalanylalanylglycylvalylthreonylprolylalanylglutaminylcysteinylphenylalanylglutamylmethionylleucylalanylleucylisoleucylarginylglutaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonylisoleucylprolylisoleucylglycylleucylleucylmethionyltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalylphenylalanylasparaginyllysylglycylisoleucylaspartylglutamylphenylalanyltyrosylalanylglutaminylcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylvalylaspartylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylaspartylvalylprolylvalylglutaminylglutamylserylalanylprolylphenylalanylarginylglutaminylalanylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvalylalanylprolylisoleucylphenylalanylisoleucylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartylaspartylaspartylleucylleucylarginylglutaminylisoleucylalanylseryltyrosylglycylarginylglycyltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylserylarginylalanylglycylvalylthreonylglycylalanylglutamylasparaginylarginylalanylalanylleucylprolylleucylasparaginylhistidylleucylvalylalanyllysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasparaginylalanylalanylprolylprolylleucylglutaminylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylserylalanylprolylaspartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylalanylisoleucylaspartylalanylglycylalanylalanylglycyllanylisoleucylserylglycylserylalanylisoleucylvalyllysylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylhistidylasparaginylisoleucylglutamylprolylglutamyllysylmethionylleucylalanylalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalanylvalylglutaminylprolylmethionyllysyl alanylalanylthreonylarginylserine.
Good times!
Haven’t you heard? Intelligence research is the only rigorous field in psychology. When the reproducibility scandal hit, intelligence researchers were the only ones left without egg on their faces.
Just ask them.
I live in Asia.
Cheating here is rampant, and expected.
Their values are completely, totally different from Western ideas. No value at all placed on honesty or straight dealing.
Read Paul Midler’s book “Poorly made in China” to get a taste.
“what are they doing here exactly?”
Colonizing.
Freshman year of college, early 1990s. Meet a Chinese foreign exchange student. Abbreviated first (and only) conversation: “Nice to meet you. You’re from China, huh?”
His response, verbatim: “Yup. And you guys are going down.”
They were experiencing an inundation of doctoral students, some of whom were supposed to teach, who could barely order a meal in English. Of course, as an undergrad I had a similar experience in 1980 with a Japanese TA, so I guess this has been a problem for decades.
Lol.
Back in the 80s it was the professors. The Dynamics prof was so bad we just skipped lectures and learned everything from the book, which became a (bad) habit.
Cyrindar rorrs down incrined prane -no sripping!
I find this hard to believe. Grad school classes are very small, and you usually see the same professor in multiple classes. Are they claiming they had a guy just adopt his identity completely, with the real guy not even present on campus?
—–
I read somewhere a shocking statistic about undergraduate cheating (American students), and it’s a huge percentage of the student body, even in the military academies.
Personally, I would expel cheaters, zero tolerance. I guess that’s not in the interest of universities these days. It seems like a market opportunity: starting a dead serious university, no federal money, no affirmative action, minimum IQ level for professors, expel cheats and protestors who break any law, zero tolerance, no laptops or phones in class, mandatory class attendance, tons of standardized testing throughout the whole experience. If a “neurodivergent” kid somehow gets in and demands laptop use or extra exam time, refuse and pay for the lawsuit, up to the Supreme Court, and then still refuse to let him attend and pay whatever judgement he won. There are a billion other schools he could have gone to.
The ant people.
One of these applied for a tenure-track position at my humble institution. I discovered that a large portion of her application was plagiarized. I could barely convince the search committee (none of whom was interested in due diligence) to remove her from consideration on this basis.
Some weeks later she accepted a position at an R1.
Yes. Next question.
Your comment shows why are doomed.
You see invaders and foreigners gaming our system, and you want to get to know them, become buddies with them. What happened to you? Do you have no love for your people, your family?
I see these same Chinese “students” and I want them arrested in a very unpleasant way, thrown in prison for six months where they’ll become some animal’s China Doll and then put on a work ship back to China. And that’s when I’m feeling nice. When I’m not feeling nice, well, we won’t go there.
Do you not see what’s happening here, where it’s going to lead?
Education Realist noted in her blog that cheating among Asian students exists on a scale almost incomprehensible to western people.
Oh dear, more troublesome Asians! Is there nothing they can’t do?
Lol! Sure thing, Dave. I mean, it couldn’t possibly be a culture of corruption where cheating is assumed and encouraged, amirite? That would be racist.
I wonder if this guy knows the score and is just being politically correct, of if he’s really that stupid.
Feeding off the corpse of America, what else?
Allowing as much as one Chinese national into our colleges and unis is the height of idiocy, yet there are some 300,000+ of them. And how many Indians? We are taking a limited and extremely valuable commodity — education from upper-tier schools — and handing it to people who will use it to compete against us. It’s like feeding the roaches in your kitchen. It’s really that stupid.
I wish this were somehow on Trump’s radar. He should cancel all non-European student visas in one swell foop — including grad school, teaching assistants, etc. It’s the sensible thing to do, and would have an excellent secondary effect of putting a hurt on our corrupt and anti-American academic institutions.
We should also ban anyone from China/India from teaching/research positions in academia or sensitive industries. It’s insane.
I don't blame the occasional foreign student who does know English proficiently, but, unless he came over here at 10 years old, the accent will remain. None of them should be put into teaching positions, PERIOD, but that'd be discriminatory and racist, right?
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* I only separate them from Grad Students on the learning side, just due to the fact that the engineering/science grad schools are almost completely foreign anyway, so everyone has to communicate equally poorly.
This is not 100% true (though it is often true). It really IS possible for Asians to learn to speak understandable English. It ain’t easy and a lot of them don’t (as you say this goes way back – before we had incomprehensible PRC grad students teaching undergrads, there were incomprehensible Taiwanese and Japanese grad students teaching undergrads) but it CAN be done.
Aside from the cheating, I think the situation is actually better now than in the past because Engrish language instruction has improved (so many tools available online, in phones, etc.) and kids are motivated to learn English at an earlier age in order to access pop culture. If you start studying Engrish after puberty it’s pretty much a lost cause as far as pronunciation goes because at some point your brain loses the ability to reprogram the sounds you are capable of making and there is a high degree of non-overlap between the phonemes needed to speak English and most Asian languages. There are still a lot of Chinese that speak terrible Engrish but there is also an increasing # who speak decent to good English as well.
What the hell is wrong with people around here?!
You guys really hate the simple idea of us vs them. Every decision starts with the question: Is it good for our people? (We're all Jews now, so time to start acting like it.) Allowing 300,000 Chinese to grab our university slots isn't "good for Americans" - not that I consider all American citizens to be my people anymore, but I'll indulge the CivNat vibe in these parts.
I also scored in the 98th percentile of both the SAT and the GRE Verbal and can speak a few other European languages with little or no accent, even though I don't speak them well. But I can ape the native pronunciation. I expect speaking a tonal East Asian language would be a challenge, however, even though I have a highly developed sense of pitch. Going to China and being a student at a Chinese University would be unthinkable. So I have some respect for what Asians have to go through at US universities, even though English is much, much easier than Mandarin or any other EA language.
Then they complain when they don’t get promoted.
They were experiencing an inundation of doctoral students, some of whom were supposed to teach, who could barely order a meal in English. Of course, as an undergrad I had a similar experience in 1980 with a Japanese TA, so I guess this has been a problem for decades.
A TA who couldn’t speak English? I had that multiple times in college in the 80’s. I switched out of one physics section because the guy (from Spain) could only write English, not speak it. I wasn’t capable of learning the material without explanation so I went into another section where the guy was from Vietnam. It took a while to get used to his accent, but he was a good teacher.
My son just finished a class where the professor’s English was sub-par, so he learned mostly from the textbook and the tutors.
Yes, it irks me. When you’re paying as much as people pay these days for college, you should at least be able to count on good communication.
And “international?” P00-bah. It’s “Foreign.”
Good Heavens! My brother said the same thing when he was an engineering professor and I thought he was utterly exaggerating.
He claims he never had a Chinese student who didn’t cheat.
More updates on who paid $6.5 million to get their kid into Stanford:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6981923/Chinese-national-Yusi-Molly-Zhao-attended-Stanford-father-paid-6-5-MILLION.html
It doesn’t look like a PLA spy plot, just a rich Chinese family. Her father, Tao Zhao, is the co-founder of multibillion-dollar “pharmaceutical” company Shandong Buchang. The Chinese still believe (sometimes) in their traditional herbal medicines. The Company’s main products are traditional Chinese medicines (most of which have no proven scientific validity). Then again herbal supplements are a big business in the US also.
The irony is that the girl got in WITHOUT being a recruited athlete , but because she had falsely listed her sailing credentials on her application she is now expelled any way and her credits have been nullified. Will Stanford give back her father’s donations to the sailing team? I doubt it.
The first type are interested in staying here. The ones you don’t like are planning to go back home where (especially in the age of Xi Jinping) it’s important to display the right attitude at all times if you want to have a career. Maybe they really believe the Party Line nonsense they are spouting. Maybe they are just biding their time and hoping for a change and in the meantime are not going to betray their true feelings to someone they barely know (you). You need to have some sympathy – it’s not easy living in a Communist dictatorship.
What are they doing here? Having an American degree is prestigious, even in high Party circles. I’ll bet that Xi is going to try to change this soon, but for now it’s still a good credential to have. Mainly they are here to learn – the idea is to take the knowledge that you gain here back home and use it to increase the wealth and strength of China.
That won’t happen, or won’t in the next 40 years. The current elite spent lots of money sending their children to study abroad, the next generation of elites actually did study abroad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d5CriKhRVA
Why? No, not because it means that much in China - it's because the kids could not get into a good school in China! Yes, that's how far we've fallen: whoring out pieces of paper and a good time for 5 years (if these kids even CAN DRINK without getting red in the face and throwing up) for the money, never mind the other students paying out-the-ass IN-State tuition and fees.
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* Nothing personal against that place in particular4, but think of whether that name means anything to people in China!
I really feel sorry for all of these math types, with their 30-times-higher salary prospects, struggling to satisfy the liberal / liberal arts professors in the few required non-technical classes. It is always the math professors who are purist in their grading standards, whereas the professors in liberal arts often have libertine attitudes about qualitative differences in performance. Well, some colleges that pride themselves on technical writing in a clipped, precise style are more doctrinaire.
The foreign students do have a big disadvantage since English is not their native language, and many of them are math-oriented to begin with. But how many English, history or other liberal arts classes do they have to take? It’s probably just one or two, not the several semesters of math and science required of poor, math-challenged, non-foreign students who can construct an English sentence.
It sounds like one more gig-job opportunity for college-aged kids who can pull it off via Asian features, albeit a risky one. America is a land of top 20%er aristocrats, their welfare-eligible foreign & non-foreign servants, underemployed citizens and students, seeking to reserve a slot in the top 20% via academic performance, even though most degrees lost their connection to upward mobility a couple of decades ago.
If you cheat on the SATs or TOEFL you get something – admission to a good college. If you cheat on an IQ test, you get nothing for it. The Chinese are often immoral by Western standards (actually they have a moral system, it’s just different than ours) but one thing that they are is ruthlessly practical so they are not going to cheat just for the hell of it.
The Chinese love to cheat.
The Chinese love to gamble.
Perfidious Albion had a lot of truth to it — still does. The English love to tell fibs and backstab with the best of them, but the Chinese think cheating and lying are hobbies to be practiced.
The Chinese think you’re a dope if you aren’t cheating or lying or stealing.
Solution:
Deport as many Chinese from the USA as possible. Use the various government level tax authorities to tax the Hell out of the Chinese — especially property taxes. Immediately place a prohibitive tariff on all goods and services from China — 300 percent will do.
Immediately eject from the USA all Chinese students at US colleges and universities.
No more anchor baby scam for Chinese scammers.
Tweet from 2014:
Of course cheating is rampant. I can share a few stories as an ethnic Chinese former TA of multiple courses.
Maybe I can even hold an Q&A session here if enough people are interested.
A perennial complaint in the STEM fields is that the professors are unintelligible foreigners. Why is this?
OTOH, $38k for some Chinese guy may not sound so bad. It's just like all the other "jobs Americans won't do" categories - employers offer low pay and then complain that they can't find Americans to do the work and have "no choice" but to recruit and hire immigrants.
Hell, even I don’t know why the fucking hell the majority of the Chinese undergrads live weird and isolated lives. What’s particularly weird is that they are a subculture that is neither actually Chinese nor actually American. After all these folks tend to be from special “International Schools” that prepare students for SAT and TOEFL instead of regular high schools in China that prepare students for gaokao.
As for commiebots I think it is probably a product of Xi. Due to the gaokao many young people including me only began to experience the wider society after graduating from high school. Colleges are not hard in China once you get in through the gaokao. It is for people who were previously mostly just bookworms to make friends, learn about the society and usually…get a partner (because you are not supposed to get a partner in high school in China, again this is about not having any distractions from preparing for the gaokao).
When I was in college it was during the Hu period. Many people secretly had sympathies for Liu Xiaobo. Just like Tiananmen Massacre (we called it “Jun.4th Incident” or “May 35th Incident” the latter is a censorship circumventing term) it is something we talked about in the school cafeteria where the authorities weren’t listening. My dorm was openly anti-commie lmao.
Maybe things have really changed since Xi came to power. It is frightening. My generation is pretty much the least commie and most free one in recent Chinese history..Only pre-commie days between 1912 and 1949 were more free.
China is a shame-based culture, so the fault is in either not performing well and scoring high, or being caught cheating to simulate performing well and scoring high.
This presupposes that the Chinese don’t find the act of cheating to be a morally dubious proposition – so, they’re going to do it unless and until they get caught. Westerners and Western Institutions are so far in the grip of cultural auto-masochism that the kinds of controls which would catch the Chinese in the act (and institute shaming, and thereby deter others) are out of the question, particularly so if the Chinese would play the “discrimination” gambit. So the Chinese will cheat and succeed by cheating in perpetuity.
I suppose this raises the question of the prevalence of cheating in Chinese communities in the West, and the extent that cheating remains a means to an end which Chinese are comfortable engaging in and for how many generations after arrival in a Western nation.
On the whole I’m not sanguine about Asian immigration into the United States, where normal and bright American kids are going to be outclassed by a combination of shame-based motivation of Asian kids (psychological abuse), cram-schooling and “hacking” the curricula, together with outright cheating.
When I refer to “hacking” the curricula, I refer to things like a story recounted by a commenter here that an Asian kid in his kid’s peer group recently spent a summer learning the next year’s mathematics subject (Geometry I think it was), but took the Geometry class anyway in the next year so that he’d score an A and top the curve without having to exert himself (and, I suppose, leaving him more time to devote to other subjects). So instead of spending the summer reading for interest, playing baseball, having a part time job and learning social skills by spending time with his peers in a normal, culturally typical American summer the Asian kid was preparing to juice his future college applications. I think this is a good part of why Asians underperform in elite institutions and in life generally – they’re often academically finished products who present themselves as applicants in a system which is supposed to select for academic aptitude and predict future academic performance at higher levels. There’s a limit to where grinding can get you as you proceed to higher and higher levels of academic challenge – at a certain point where your competition is rarefied and the material is more complex you’ll be exposed.
To me it should be something we think about in terms of whether we want normal American kids competing for dwindling opportunities against these victims of childhood psychological abuse whose chief stratagem is foregoing all other dimensions of human development beyond rote memorization of academic topics achieved by mindless repetition.
It was probably me, and it wasn't one Asian in a peer group, but an entire test prep industry here in America that offers summer courses in math classes for kids to take before they take it in school. I was assigned one when I worked test prep. I assumed it was for kids who had failed geometry and were taking it again and their parents wanted them to do well. Silly me.
It was probably me, and it wasn't one Asian in a peer group, but an entire test prep industry here in America that offers summer courses in math classes for kids to take before they take it in school. I was assigned one when I worked test prep. I assumed it was for kids who had failed geometry and were taking it again and their parents wanted them to do well. Silly me.
There are REAL commie spies. This is just not one of such cases. In most cases it is just one single nano-Israel, I mean a family in China, at work. Most weird events in China are about nano-Israels, not the commies.
From a report reposted on Wenxuecity it seems that there is something fishy about the company.
I went to UCSD, and there were still white kids there. I think I was the last group of white kids. But then when I left a gf was doing a PHD and when she left, it was all asian. Like Overnight. Asian University.
You haven’t answered my question.
I taught at a number of colleges from the mid 80s to the late 90s, mostly in NYC
The absolute worst cheaters were the Russians. They had organized cheating scams which were fairly sophisticated. In addition, since at the time there were more Russian immigrants in NYC colleges than Chinese, the problem went to the undergraduate level as well. The Russian organized cheating was based in the NYC Russian community, while the Chinese cheating was either ad hoc or they had done their cheating back in China.
The Chinese weren’t as bad, but at some point there were more Chinese than Russians. At some point the number of Chinese who were cheating outnumbered the Russians.
One big problem was the PRC spies. Any university with a large number of Chinese grad students had some students who spied on the other students
Shouldn’t low-IQ Anglo-Saxon Americans be cheating in the hope of gaining admission to one of the multitude of institutions of learning founded by the intellectually superior (as we are constantly told) Chinese and other East Asians?
The hive exists wherever the bees are. They are one and the same.
This is not a description of only China. It can be said of most peoples. There is a critical mass, perhaps different for each type, that, if exceeded, will be equivalent to importing the entire group and its peculiarities to infect your own homeland.
I agree mainland China testing is suspect. That isn’t the only evidence for high Chinese IQ.
1. Overseas Chinese, including the children of prole peasants who immigrated to be unskilled agricultural workers, all test around 105, going back 100 years.
2. Close relatives South Koreans and Japanese also test around 105 in high quality national tests.
3. Extreme Chinese overperformance on g-loaded tasks everywhere they have settled.
4. Low-stakes testing with no incentive to cram/cheat.
5. Higher Chinese IQ is also consistent with a lot of other indirect evidence, like fitting perfectly with Rushton’s NE Asian – White – Black ordering in a large number of human traits, including brain weight.
Put it this way: if you're a Chinese peasant and your options are unskilled agricultural work in China, or the same in America for twice as much money and the possibility of social advancement, wouldn't it be smart to choose the latter?
That’s mean, bro. But totally hilarious!
What are they doing here? Having an American degree is prestigious, even in high Party circles. I'll bet that Xi is going to try to change this soon, but for now it's still a good credential to have. Mainly they are here to learn - the idea is to take the knowledge that you gain here back home and use it to increase the wealth and strength of China.
“I’ll bet that Xi is going to try to change this soon”
That won’t happen, or won’t in the next 40 years. The current elite spent lots of money sending their children to study abroad, the next generation of elites actually did study abroad.
1. Overseas Chinese, including the children of prole peasants who immigrated to be unskilled agricultural workers, all test around 105, going back 100 years.
2. Close relatives South Koreans and Japanese also test around 105 in high quality national tests.
3. Extreme Chinese overperformance on g-loaded tasks everywhere they have settled.
4. Low-stakes testing with no incentive to cram/cheat.
5. Higher Chinese IQ is also consistent with a lot of other indirect evidence, like fitting perfectly with Rushton’s NE Asian - White - Black ordering in a large number of human traits, including brain weight.
That is a much better answer than what Jack D. gave me.
Thank you.
It still does not tell us where the data comes from, who provides it, and how it was obtained, but your point is valuable. Furthermore, contrariety to what Jack wrote, there IS incentive for a competing country and people to inflate any statistic that makes them look better, so motivation, as in your #4, is not evidence.
As for overseas Chinese (like the ones who’s ancestors came to America on my great great and/or great great great grandfather’ ships) who is to say that their high scores are not different as a result of living in our world for so long?
I’m not belaboring this, and I do think you are correct.
And a iq test, where a individual failing or succeeding on purpose will have zero effect on the actual average since thousands of other people are also taking it and outliers normalized
The sat toefl has direct consequences and rewards targeted towards the individual
What are they doing here? Having an American degree is prestigious, even in high Party circles. I'll bet that Xi is going to try to change this soon, but for now it's still a good credential to have. Mainly they are here to learn - the idea is to take the knowledge that you gain here back home and use it to increase the wealth and strength of China.
Lots of Chinese still believe in their Government:
Russians or Jews? We all know it was Jews.
I never saw rampant cheating from the Jews who were not Russians.
As for the Russians who cheated, I don’t know their religious persuasions.
As for the Chinese students I knew who cheated, not one was Jewish.
The determine factor seemed to be coming from a country that was a low-trust society with a high level of corruption.
At what point do people understand the concept of cost-benefit?
“ours” lacks a valid referent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d5CriKhRVA
Well, Xi has a SD or two over Fat Jerry and Dopey Joe, and knows how to use it effectively.
Could you be more specific? Financial fraud? The medicine is fake? They aren’t using real tiger bone but house cat bones instead? They are substituting water buffalo horn for rhino? What does it mean to be “fake” when even the real thing doesn’t do anything?
That won’t happen, or won’t in the next 40 years. The current elite spent lots of money sending their children to study abroad, the next generation of elites actually did study abroad.
These reliance interests are ten times worse stateside, but we’re a generation ahead in being cognizant of the rot.
I hope so, but don’t actually see it.
I have attempted to talk many bright but not brilliant young people out of college or grad school. Mostly it was completely futile, trying to undue a life of pro-ed brainwashing.
My only real success was steering a guy considering Phd, law, and medical school into the latter, and then reapplying after the first round didn’t result in any scholarships and mostly Caribbean school acceptances.
He ended up interning with a top local doctor for a year, redoing the MCAT, and got a full scholarship at a respectable US school the next year.
Some level of infection is necessary to stimulate production of the proper antibodies.
Whenever anyone in media or politics mouths the standard, "immigration is good," or, "our diversity is our strength," they are leaving out the essential phrase, "in the right amount."
It is indeed good to have some immigrants and variety in any country, and we in the White countries have always had that. At some point in our recent history, however, we reached critical mass and began to get sick rather than inoculated.
Critical mass: It's not just for physics anymore.
That has already started. It will be a major issue of the second half of the 21st Century as Chinese media becomes more globally ubiquitous.
Draw a Venn diagram. There are Russian Jews, Jews who are not Russian and Russians who are not Jews.
I never saw rampant cheating from the Jews who were not Russians.
As for the Russians who cheated, I don’t know their religious persuasions.
As for the Chinese students I knew who cheated, not one was Jewish.
The determine factor seemed to be coming from a country that was a low-trust society with a high level of corruption.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d5CriKhRVA
No doubt what we are looking at is propaganda and far from the whole truth but at least Xi pretends to pay some lip service to rural development and his own people. All that Hillary promised to rural white Americans was that they would lose their jobs. The current Dem. Party doesn’t even pretend anymore that they care about rural whites.
Yes, and it has to be in the right amount.
Whenever anyone in media or politics mouths the standard, “immigration is good,” or, “our diversity is our strength,” they are leaving out the essential phrase, “in the right amount.”
It is indeed good to have some immigrants and variety in any country, and we in the White countries have always had that. At some point in our recent history, however, we reached critical mass and began to get sick rather than inoculated.
Critical mass: It’s not just for physics anymore.
I never saw rampant cheating from the Jews who were not Russians.
As for the Russians who cheated, I don’t know their religious persuasions.
As for the Chinese students I knew who cheated, not one was Jewish.
The determine factor seemed to be coming from a country that was a low-trust society with a high level of corruption.
I agree with most of what you are saying but TBH, a lot (but not all) of the “Russians” in America (especially the ones in elite academic settings) are Jewish. As you say, Russia is a low trust society so there is a lot of cheating by all nationalities but each nationality specializes in a different kind of cheating. Russian Jews, being a high IQ people, tend to go for more g loaded crimes.
I wonder if this guy knows the score and is just being politically correct, of if he's really that stupid.Feeding off the corpse of America, what else?
Allowing as much as one Chinese national into our colleges and unis is the height of idiocy, yet there are some 300,000+ of them. And how many Indians? We are taking a limited and extremely valuable commodity -- education from upper-tier schools -- and handing it to people who will use it to compete against us. It's like feeding the roaches in your kitchen. It's really that stupid.
I wish this were somehow on Trump's radar. He should cancel all non-European student visas in one swell foop -- including grad school, teaching assistants, etc. It's the sensible thing to do, and would have an excellent secondary effect of putting a hurt on our corrupt and anti-American academic institutions.
We should also ban anyone from China/India from teaching/research positions in academia or sensitive industries. It's insane.
Agree.
This presupposes that the Chinese don't find the act of cheating to be a morally dubious proposition - so, they're going to do it unless and until they get caught. Westerners and Western Institutions are so far in the grip of cultural auto-masochism that the kinds of controls which would catch the Chinese in the act (and institute shaming, and thereby deter others) are out of the question, particularly so if the Chinese would play the "discrimination" gambit. So the Chinese will cheat and succeed by cheating in perpetuity.
I suppose this raises the question of the prevalence of cheating in Chinese communities in the West, and the extent that cheating remains a means to an end which Chinese are comfortable engaging in and for how many generations after arrival in a Western nation.
On the whole I'm not sanguine about Asian immigration into the United States, where normal and bright American kids are going to be outclassed by a combination of shame-based motivation of Asian kids (psychological abuse), cram-schooling and "hacking" the curricula, together with outright cheating.
When I refer to "hacking" the curricula, I refer to things like a story recounted by a commenter here that an Asian kid in his kid's peer group recently spent a summer learning the next year's mathematics subject (Geometry I think it was), but took the Geometry class anyway in the next year so that he'd score an A and top the curve without having to exert himself (and, I suppose, leaving him more time to devote to other subjects). So instead of spending the summer reading for interest, playing baseball, having a part time job and learning social skills by spending time with his peers in a normal, culturally typical American summer the Asian kid was preparing to juice his future college applications. I think this is a good part of why Asians underperform in elite institutions and in life generally - they're often academically finished products who present themselves as applicants in a system which is supposed to select for academic aptitude and predict future academic performance at higher levels. There's a limit to where grinding can get you as you proceed to higher and higher levels of academic challenge - at a certain point where your competition is rarefied and the material is more complex you'll be exposed.
To me it should be something we think about in terms of whether we want normal American kids competing for dwindling opportunities against these victims of childhood psychological abuse whose chief stratagem is foregoing all other dimensions of human development beyond rote memorization of academic topics achieved by mindless repetition.
Students from another part of Asia figure into another anecdote:
When my wife was earning her master’s degree in math here (which amounted to not much more than a review of what she had already done as an undergraduate at Babeș-Bolyai University in Transylvania, which had a 5% admission rate and a 3-day entrance exam on site) she observed students from India cheating.
The professor was the type who teaches from the book and doesn’t care about anything. My wife caught the Indian students copying answers from the professor’s edition of the text, which they had found online. One of them suggested it to my wife, who refused. She didn’t need it.
The Indian students’ work was IDENTICAL to what appeared in that book. The professor gave them all “A”s for their perfect work. He apparently didn’t wonder or care why their work was identical to what was in his own book. He gave my wife, however, “B” grades for being exactly right but in her own work. Asshole.
This was at a private, Jesuit university that is highly regarded and takes in a lot of students from rich, East Coast families.
Not western people under 35 or so. And don’t call them western, racist!
The family paid $6.5 million to Rick Singer, but the sailing coach at Stanford only got $500k, Singer pocketed $6m! Just like that other China family that paid him $1.2m for Yale but the soccer coach there only got $400k, another $800k profit for Singer. But the $6m profit has got to be his biggest score yet. Quite a lucrative business he was running.
I think the biggest shock coming out of this is how much Rick Singer pocketed with each transaction. Both the coaches and the parents must be incensed by this, they probably didn’t know how much they’ve been gouged until this whole thing broke.
STEM careers are not super attractive to most Americans, even if you have the brains to do a PhD. You have to put in a tremendous amount of work and time and you make a lot less than someone who (with equal or less brain power than you) gets a job in consulting or on Wall St or becomes a dermatologist. You can be a 30 year old post doc with a heavy work load and make $38K/yr. with zero job security. It’s just another one of those jobs that Americans don’t want to do any more (for the lousy pay that places like Harvard offer even though they are rolling in dough).
OTOH, $38k for some Chinese guy may not sound so bad. It’s just like all the other “jobs Americans won’t do” categories – employers offer low pay and then complain that they can’t find Americans to do the work and have “no choice” but to recruit and hire immigrants.
I suspect the foreigners are being preferentially hired so that the administrations can yak about diversity.
It fits with other data. Chinese kids do best of any kids in UK schools. Chinese merchants/traders have been long recognised for their savvy, which is why Chinese in Indonesia or Malaya are an (often resented) business class.
And China is now the world manufacturing centre (admittedly Japan may be better in quality, but quantity has a quality all of its own).
Sure, but China is catching up in the quality game. I currently use an unlocked Xiaomi Mi Mix 2S smartphone. I bought it because sample images online showed how good the camera is.
The back of the phone can only be described as, ‘jewel-like.’ The glass covering the screen is more scratch-resistant than the material used on my work-provided Samsung S8+. The Xiaomi was also available for $200 less than the Samsung.
The Huawei P20s and P30s are also impressive.
It was more of a case of low trust and corruption.
I am about the same age as Steve. We graduated HS the same year. I went to the north east to a small elite liberal arts college I will just call Snooty College. The students at Snooty College were generally white, many were Protestant and many were Jewish. They had a football program back then, and a very large percentage of the Roman Catholic students were blue collar athletes. Some people claimed that anti-working class Catholic bigotry is what led to the end of football and fraternities. I am not sure about how so many Catholics became Greeks, but that is tru in other schools. One of my kids is in a sorority in a fairly big name school in the northeast, and the many of the leaders are Guidettes from Jersey.
At Snooty College professors could do things like hand out a final, leave the room and say “you’re all on the honor system here”, then come back 3 hours later to collect the finals and make sure the stragglers knew when to stop. One time I overslept for a final. I had to track down the prof in a faculty lounge. He told me to write the time I started the final and turn it in 3 hours later. I did. That was the level of trust for Jew and Gentile alike.
In NYC colleges, that level of trust could never exist. I caught it knew about cheating from Russians, Chinese, Haitians, Turks, Hispanics and African Americans. Many of my classes had few if any white Christians or non-Russian Jews. The white Christians were often former cops or children of cops, and we all know what that means.
Russian immigrants to American, like most immigrants, start out working class in their new society and so things like gentlemen's honor codes are meaningless concepts to them - another luxury for the rich that they can't afford. But going back to my original point, chances are (especially in NYC and especially at that time) that most of your "Russian" students were really Jewish. Their Jewishness is not what made them willing to cheat but it's dumb to pretend that they weren't mostly Jewish - they were.
The Chinese kids didn’t just have someone take their tests, they also lie about everything else on their applications, incl. fake transcripts, fake recommendation letters, fake awards, fake volunteering experiences, ghost written essays. And they are hardly alone, practically all foreign students do that. The Indians are even more blatant cheats, per The Economist when Indian kids sit for their exams in India, they write down their phone numbers so the examiner could call and negotiate the rate for what grade they want. Foreigners make a mockery out of the holistic admission system in the US.
Our colleges know this of course, they just feign ignorance as long as these kids pay full freight.
Our rules and laws are created for honest people. They are not designed to thwart the dishonest or catch the cheats, not just foreigners, but even our own.
It is a propaganda advantage to the nation itself (and therefore to the people, who are one and the same in the case of the Chinese). This is why I posit that there IS a reason why China/Chinese people would be motivated to cheat and score high on IQ, in whatever way that score would be obtained.
And I still haven’t heard how the IQ numbers themselves are obtained. Furthermore, no one has proven to me that China tests ALL of it’s people, particularly the ones way out there living like peasants. How good is China, really, at testing and compiling ALL of it’s people’s IQ scores? And how do we know they don’t inflate them?
Responders here have given good reasons, however, to believe in high Chinese average IQ. Since I am a believer in, and user of, intuition, I will not argue against them.
I agree, and that reason is that it would be shameful not to have the highest IQ.
Are many white people currently attempting to enter Waseda?
Its likely that the primary reason that science arose in the European community and not elsewhere is our slavish devotion to truth. Integrity is a function of that so there is no stigma in other cultures regarding cheating. My wife who would never agree with my above conclusion concedes that in a certain international fraternal business organization she used to work for, the Koreans were famous for it. As an undergrad in a science lab course, I once made the mistake of asking a Chinese ta a question. His breath was so bad I dropped the class.
I think the trajectory of Asians in America is going to be just like the trajectory of Jews – that kind of tiger parenting is mostly a 1 or 2 generation thing. By that point, the Asians will be safely ensconced in the elite enclaves of America but their kids are not going to have that same kind of crazy drive. Jews have basically disappeared from math competitions and stuff like that.
Of course the wellspring of fresh Jewish immigration to America was destroyed while presumably we are never going to run out of Asians, but the Asians who are here already are going to assimilate into the American elite and not keep up their “Asian” ways (and that includes cheating).
Of course, it’s a class based thing. It always was. “Honor codes” were for gentlemen. Gentlemen came from a different social class than proles. Proles were never assumed to have any honor. Antique chests have locks on all the drawers because it was assumed that your servants would try to steal the silver, the liquor, everything if you weren’t looking.
Russian immigrants to American, like most immigrants, start out working class in their new society and so things like gentlemen’s honor codes are meaningless concepts to them – another luxury for the rich that they can’t afford. But going back to my original point, chances are (especially in NYC and especially at that time) that most of your “Russian” students were really Jewish. Their Jewishness is not what made them willing to cheat but it’s dumb to pretend that they weren’t mostly Jewish – they were.
My Hispanic and black students who cheated were probably mostly Christians.
Asian students who cheated were probably mostly atheist, some Buddhist or Christian. Among the Asians the PRC students were worse than Japanese or Koreans, although there was a notorious case of a former student of mine from Korea being convicted of Medicaid fraud. He can no longer practice medicine.
At the time the percentage of Russians in NY was heavily Jewish, but I don’t know the religion of these students. The probability is high most were Jewish, but that is not known for sure.
All I know is that there was a very strong correlation between nationality and cheating, but not between religion and cheating.
Omission of the students’ religion is simply because it was an unknown, unmeasured and probably irrelevant factor. Unless one wants to blame The (((Tribe))) for all of the world’s woes. That would give the (((Tribe))) far more power than any group of people could possibly have.
OTOH, the scheme fell apart only because the (black) soccer coach of Yale decided to cut out the middleman and go freelance. Running a successful financial fraud is a high g enterprise, especially nowadays where it’s hard to deal in large quantities of cash without attracting the attention of the authorities. Singer had set up all sorts of tax free foundations and smoke and mirrors to conceal what was going on from the government and to keep the donors insulated from the coaches and vice versa. Naturally he was going to skim off a lot of the take for his valuable services but he kept it going for many years whereas geniusboy there drove the bus right over a cliff 5 minutes after he decided that he wanted to drive.
Back in 1993, I got to know a professor at Talbot Seminary, an evangelical seminary in Southern California; our sons were on the same Little League team. He told me that the school had a terrible time trying to get through to its Korean students that plagiarism was wrong and had kicked several out for repeat offenses.
It fits with other data. Chinese kids do best of any kids in UK schools. Chinese merchants/traders have been long recognised for their savvy, which is why Chinese in Indonesia or Malaya are an (often resented) business class.
And China is now the world manufacturing centre (admittedly Japan may be better in quality, but quantity has a quality all of its own).
This ain’t about Russian MIGs though, YAA. Yeah, Chinese quality in large quantity has a stupidity all its own.
Of course the wellspring of fresh Jewish immigration to America was destroyed while presumably we are never going to run out of Asians, but the Asians who are here already are going to assimilate into the American elite and not keep up their "Asian" ways (and that includes cheating).
How can that happen at all? I’m sufficiently cynical to know that this won’t ever happen. I think it is necessary for us the NE Asian race to leave after the commies are gone because otherwise we may be gradually corrupted by sick ideas and even genes from violent tropical people such as Negroids and mestizos who are literally corrupting the minds of white people…
Here's someone who is a cousin of a (Chinese) friend whose family has been here for a couple of generations:
https://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/sommers
A perfect American elite goodwhite, with all that implies good and bad.
She's just a couple of generations ahead of most Chinese Americans - this is what the grandchildren of today's SAT cheaters will look like if they stay here.
2. Maybe you might want to "go home" when the commies are gone but your kids won't and your grandchildren sure as hell won't - they won't even speak the language. If the Castro family falls in Cuba tomorrow, how many Cubans from the 1960s exile are going back? How many Poles who left in the 40s went back in 89? (Even more left). You may think it's temporary but it ain't.
Russian immigrants to American, like most immigrants, start out working class in their new society and so things like gentlemen's honor codes are meaningless concepts to them - another luxury for the rich that they can't afford. But going back to my original point, chances are (especially in NYC and especially at that time) that most of your "Russian" students were really Jewish. Their Jewishness is not what made them willing to cheat but it's dumb to pretend that they weren't mostly Jewish - they were.
What does it matter?
My Hispanic and black students who cheated were probably mostly Christians.
Asian students who cheated were probably mostly atheist, some Buddhist or Christian. Among the Asians the PRC students were worse than Japanese or Koreans, although there was a notorious case of a former student of mine from Korea being convicted of Medicaid fraud. He can no longer practice medicine.
At the time the percentage of Russians in NY was heavily Jewish, but I don’t know the religion of these students. The probability is high most were Jewish, but that is not known for sure.
All I know is that there was a very strong correlation between nationality and cheating, but not between religion and cheating.
Omission of the students’ religion is simply because it was an unknown, unmeasured and probably irrelevant factor. Unless one wants to blame The (((Tribe))) for all of the world’s woes. That would give the (((Tribe))) far more power than any group of people could possibly have.
You need to apologize to Russian people for falsely accusing them of something Jews did. This blog has been very concerned for a long time with this sort of shifting blame from various non-European ethnic groups to European ethnic groups.
What you are doing is exactly the same as what the media does when they call Gypsies who commit crime in the UK "Romanians" or describe an Arab Islamic terrorist as a "Swedish man."
They were experiencing an inundation of doctoral students, some of whom were supposed to teach, who could barely order a meal in English. Of course, as an undergrad I had a similar experience in 1980 with a Japanese TA, so I guess this has been a problem for decades.
Students have been complaining about having to learn from teachers with bad accents for 1000 years, except the language used to be Latin.
I remember all too well, at 40+ years on now, the absurdity of some Oriental TA babbling away in front of 250 bleary eyed Chem 102 students, comprehensively mangling compound names like methionylglutaminylarginyltyrosylglutamylserylleucylphenylalanylalanylglutaminylleucyllysylglutamylarginyllysylglutamylglycylalanylphenylalanylvalylprolylphenylalanylvalylthreonylleucylglycylaspartylprolylglycylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysylisoleucylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutamylalanylglycylalanylaspartylalanylleucylglutamylleucylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylalanylserylaspartylprolylleucylalanylaspartylglycylprolylthreonylisoleucylglutaminylasparaginylalanylthreonylleucylarginylalanylphenylalanylalanylalanylglycylvalylthreonylprolylalanylglutaminylcysteinylphenylalanylglutamylmethionylleucylalanylleucylisoleucylarginylglutaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonylisoleucylprolylisoleucylglycylleucylleucylmethionyltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalylphenylalanylasparaginyllysylglycylisoleucylaspartylglutamylphenylalanyltyrosylalanylglutaminylcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylvalylaspartylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylaspartylvalylprolylvalylglutaminylglutamylserylalanylprolylphenylalanylarginylglutaminylalanylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvalylalanylprolylisoleucylphenylalanylisoleucylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartylaspartylaspartylleucylleucylarginylglutaminylisoleucylalanylseryltyrosylglycylarginylglycyltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylserylarginylalanylglycylvalylthreonylglycylalanylglutamylasparaginylarginylalanylalanylleucylprolylleucylasparaginylhistidylleucylvalylalanyllysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasparaginylalanylalanylprolylprolylleucylglutaminylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylserylalanylprolylaspartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylalanylisoleucylaspartylalanylglycylalanylalanylglycyllanylisoleucylserylglycylserylalanylisoleucylvalyllysylisoleucylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylhistidylasparaginylisoleucylglutamylprolylglutamyllysylmethionylleucylalanylalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalanylvalylglutaminylprolylmethionyllysyl alanylalanylthreonylarginylserine.
Good times!
Yeah, Capt’n, and imagine when they let him teach Inorganic!
OTOH, $38k for some Chinese guy may not sound so bad. It's just like all the other "jobs Americans won't do" categories - employers offer low pay and then complain that they can't find Americans to do the work and have "no choice" but to recruit and hire immigrants.
I don’t disbelieve you, Jack, but it doesn’t make sense. Why are we hearing stories of American phD’s all sweating it out trying to get the few professor positions available? Shouldn’t there be a pile of Americans all vying for math and physics professorships?
I suspect the foreigners are being preferentially hired so that the administrations can yak about diversity.
WHEREAS: We have observed an inordinate number of Chinese students cheating on tests, assignments and admissions.
WHEREAS: There is a high level of corruption in Chinese society.
WHEREAS: There is overwhelming pressure on students in China to get high scores, even if cheating is required.
THIS MAY 2ND ON THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 2019, THE RESOLUTION HEREBY ORDAINED SAYS: Why do we believe the number claimed to be the average Chinese IQ? Where does the data come from, how is it obtained, and who is providing it?
***************************
There, Buzz, I did a replace on your “Given”s with “WHEREAS” and that “Question” with somet highfalutin lawyer crap so’s the lawmakers could understand it. They were led to believe during the election process that there would be no math!
Why in the living hell would I make that up? I think you get Chinese parents, Mr. #896, as I think Mr. Sailer here does too. We were indeed a little baffled, but the guy explained that the parents wanted him to get the engineering degree, period, and getting the restaurant was the carrot tied to the end of the stick.
It was a different time, and back then, getting some Sociology degree would be seen as pretty much the same waste of time as I myself see it as now. Though he would probably never use a lick of his education, I think that you are right that his parent could be proud that “my son is an engineer”*
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* Yes, a CCC engineer (Cheap-Chicken-Cookin’) but a degreed CCC engineeer nonetheless!
You know, when considering this topic of Chinese cheating, one is reminded of a favorite iSteve tool:
Search for the string, “immigra…”
For our purposes, it all comes down to that. Let them cheat to their hearts content. As commenter Jack D. says,
Cultural relativism is not admissible evidence.
Let them practice their own “moral system” in their own country.
What are they doing here? Having an American degree is prestigious, even in high Party circles. I'll bet that Xi is going to try to change this soon, but for now it's still a good credential to have. Mainly they are here to learn - the idea is to take the knowledge that you gain here back home and use it to increase the wealth and strength of China.
Your picture is about 5 years old, Jack. What you say about the Chinese wanting that American piece of paper would have been a good point in 2010, maybe 2012 even. Right now, hear me now and believe me later, there are Chinese parents sending their mediocre kids to spend 5 years (if they are lucky! – due to terrible English), and a whole lot of out-of-state tuition and fees to send their kids to schools like The Univ. of N. Dakota* to get a degree.
Why? No, not because it means that much in China – it’s because the kids could not get into a good school in China! Yes, that’s how far we’ve fallen: whoring out pieces of paper and a good time for 5 years (if these kids even CAN DRINK without getting red in the face and throwing up) for the money, never mind the other students paying out-the-ass IN-State tuition and fees.
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* Nothing personal against that place in particular4, but think of whether that name means anything to people in China!
State funding has fallen.
Even though the tuition of American college has risen, there is a lot of push back on rising college costs.
State U wants to keep in-state tuition down while the state legislature cuts their funding.
Private U wants to increase financial aid and admit fewer students to be more “selective”
State U does this by taking in wealthy out of state and foreign students. For example, at Wisconsin there are several brand new luxury apartment complexes for children of rich New Yorkers and other wealthy student.
The solution is to take a large number of foreign students who pay full ride.
China takes cheating seriously and we do not. If these people are going to be here, we may have no choice about adopting some of their customs.
Why? No, not because it means that much in China - it's because the kids could not get into a good school in China! Yes, that's how far we've fallen: whoring out pieces of paper and a good time for 5 years (if these kids even CAN DRINK without getting red in the face and throwing up) for the money, never mind the other students paying out-the-ass IN-State tuition and fees.
.
* Nothing personal against that place in particular4, but think of whether that name means anything to people in China!
Costs of college have risen.
State funding has fallen.
Even though the tuition of American college has risen, there is a lot of push back on rising college costs.
State U wants to keep in-state tuition down while the state legislature cuts their funding.
Private U wants to increase financial aid and admit fewer students to be more “selective”
State U does this by taking in wealthy out of state and foreign students. For example, at Wisconsin there are several brand new luxury apartment complexes for children of rich New Yorkers and other wealthy student.
The solution is to take a large number of foreign students who pay full ride.
Right now the State U's, and all the rest, for that matter, are on their own free ride, courtesy of the current students' grandchildren, who will be on the hook for the interest on that to-be-blown-off student debt, right now at $1,500,000,000,000 and climbing with > 15% in default (depending on how you define "default"). They have no problem building 2 new buildings each year and adding on new Chairpersons of Dievirsity, Assistant Chairpersons of Dieversity, and Assistants TO the Chairpersons of Dieversity. All it takes is to assure the new students' parents that "yes, yes you can afford to send your child here for a good time for 4, aaah 5, shoot, make it 6, years of a good time. We will even help you fill out the financial aid paperwork. Let me show you this important dotted line to sign on it too ...."
This is what happens, Paleo Liberal, when you introduce what we actual Liberals call a "moral hazard", this one being the US Feral Gov't's guaranteeing of student loans. It's a real shit show, or it will be when this bubble pops. The Chinese students will just get to bail out either back to home or with some kind of work visa turned into a green card or can disappear into a China town somewhere ...
Yes, funding has been cut. It sure doesn't help for a state legislator to walk through campus and feel he's not in his same country anymore, much less his same state. The point of the state government funding these place to begin with is to create learned men/women and talented people that can make THAT state a better place. With New Yorkers in town, who will do nothing but deride the city to their big-city friends once they leave, what is the point again?
But college COSTS have risen because the colleges LUV spending lots of money, and they can get as much as they want. Do you think the adjunct instructors that they use more and more to do all the grunt work teaching (the grading, etc) have gotten raises? No, they are making less in real dollars than ever.
bo, he was showing you that by not planting a crop, there would be no crops rotting in the field…and he still made a living. The American dream.
Aeoli, well if they go back to Asia or are posted to a Chinese project in Africa, it’s a win. Eventually their dams and bridges will fail.
Ibound, years ago I helped a local company fabricate an impactor, those big machines that can crush concrete and the rebar. My expertise was heavy plate fabrication. The company sold the prototype and looked for ways to save money. They found a rep who had the main weldments made in China. It looked good and was cheap. When we went to install the “hammers” one dropped to the floor and shattered. The casting was hollow and filled with unsmelted nuts,bolts and other scrap. You get what you pay for.
This article got posted on Reddit today and drew over 5,000 comments. There are a LOT of people bitterly complaining about Chinese cheating:
His response, verbatim: "Yup. And you guys are going down."
Mathew, Pre WWII lots of Japanese at California Colleges and Universities…which led to the great cartoon of a US Marine astride a Jap soldier and about to knife him into eternity…”Don’t give me any of that “I went to UCRA crap.”
My son just finished a class where the professor's English was sub-par, so he learned mostly from the textbook and the tutors.
Yes, it irks me. When you're paying as much as people pay these days for college, you should at least be able to count on good communication.
And "international?" P00-bah. It's "Foreign."
still, My wife pisses me off to no end when she points out that lots of people from foreign countries can speak their native tongue, duh, and English. But you can’t understand them !
Just, I visited my daughter and her family in Bucks County, Pa. Princeton is a short drive away. When we walked the town I was stunned by the number of Asians we saw.
I’ve been saying since this scandal broke that they buried the lead with the celebrities paying millions to get their kids in. The systemic cheating by the families of rich kids on the entrance tests-both Americans and international- is the real story here. It’s been going on for the better part of two decades and has been part of a much bigger con played on the general population of aspiring college students who are told that the spiraling cost of attending exclusive colleges is a wise investment. All these people (yes, I am well aware there are tens of millions) should sue the institutions (the universities and the testing bodies), and already some have.
This was always a feature, not a bug.
In other words, six times as high. Or is it five?
Can’t these people write?
Q) What’s the difference between a reporter and a journalist?
A) One was taught to write in high school. The other wasn’t taught to write, even through grad school.
I graduated from college in 1982, BSEE. I took it very seriously; I wanted to be proficient in the subject matter of every engineering class I took: solid state systems, communications theory, data structures, compiler design, etc. I wanted to have the widest set of skills possible so I would be qualified to work in a wide variety of technological fields.
That was definitely *not* how most of my classmates felt about engineering school. Just get the degree, and you’re guaranteed a job as an engineer. To them, it didn’t seem to matter *how* you got the degree, so cheating was rampant. Some were even caught and punished.
I couldn’t understand why they thought it would be a good long term strategy though… sure, maybe you’ll get a good entry level engineering job… but what happens next? Can you continue to “cheat” as a working engineer? Could you be promoted this way? I never asked… maybe because I didn’t want to know.
(BTW, this engineering school was in the NYC area, and my classmates were a fairly “diverse” group)
Tell her to join you in a campaign to return Latin and Greek to the public schools. That’s how Americans originally learned other languages.
James Bond movie Goldfinger has a scene where Goldfinger cheats at cards just for fun.
Goldfinger has a clean-limbed slender lady in a bikini spying from a distance on Goldfinger’s card game opponent and sending the intelligence back to Goldfinger.
Sean Connery as James Bond is wearing a light blue terry cloth outfit of a highly questionable design and cut. The guys on the set must have given Connery buckets of Hell for it, good naturedly.
I’m sure Connery put up a good Scottish squall about the foppish wardrobe.
My Hispanic and black students who cheated were probably mostly Christians.
Asian students who cheated were probably mostly atheist, some Buddhist or Christian. Among the Asians the PRC students were worse than Japanese or Koreans, although there was a notorious case of a former student of mine from Korea being convicted of Medicaid fraud. He can no longer practice medicine.
At the time the percentage of Russians in NY was heavily Jewish, but I don’t know the religion of these students. The probability is high most were Jewish, but that is not known for sure.
All I know is that there was a very strong correlation between nationality and cheating, but not between religion and cheating.
Omission of the students’ religion is simply because it was an unknown, unmeasured and probably irrelevant factor. Unless one wants to blame The (((Tribe))) for all of the world’s woes. That would give the (((Tribe))) far more power than any group of people could possibly have.
It it certainly not the Tribe’s fault that Chinese are such avid cheaters. It is very much the Tribe’s fault that there are millions of them in my country.
Test fraud-for-hire is a cash business, yo.
I read that the scheme fell apart because the FBI had some financial guy in their clutches who said he had some info they might be interested in. Your freelance coach story makes sense, too.
One thing people haven’t mentioned:
The US has built up the finest university system in the world.
The seeds were planted in colonial times. Many of the colonists, especially the Puritans, were highly educated. I have Puritan ancestors who were highly educated when they came over from England in the 1600s. Graduated college in the 1500s. England still has a fine university system, and ours was copied from theirs. That is why so many of the top old universities are in New England.
Next step — many of our Founding Fathers valued higher education. Jefferson and Franklin did much to promote higher education.
After the Civil War, the USA invested in the Land Grant University system. The idea was to have university research that would help the common man, especially in agricultural science. The epitome of that is the “Wisconsin Idea”, that the boundaries of the University are the borders of the state. Most famously, U of Wisconsin specialized in dairy research. Hence America’s Dairyland.
After WW II there was a quintuple boost to the University system:
First, the GI Bill opened the doors of the University to the common man.
Second, WW II devastated the European continent universities. The three top universities in Europe are all within a short distance from each other in England. Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, in the cities of Oxford, Cambridge and London. Many of the top scholars went to the US either during, after, or even long after WW II (the Brain Drain of the 50s and 60s).
Third, there was an unprecedented post war economic boom, requiring a large number of college grads, and also Masters, Doctorate and Professional degrees.
Fourth, there was the Baby Boom kids coming of age, with their families hoping for college education for their kids.
Fifth, there was a huge increase in government grants, especially from the Eisenhower through Carter years. There is still a lot of research money, just not as much as there would’ve been. This was coupled with increased spending by state governments, which has waned over the years.
Note that during all of this time college education was relatively inexpensive.
Things have changed. But the infrastructure is there. And it is still better than what any other country has.
Our university system is one of our few remaining crown jewels but you can count on Clown World to muck it up. It's only a matter of time now. The #1 criterion for faculty advancement now is that you identify as a woman. They would make being black the #1 criterion but they know that it's hopeless to try to find more than a few token blacks who are able to do work at research prof. level. (White and Asian) women can at least come close. For the next 20 or 30 years or for as long as it takes for half the current faculty to retire or die, you can pretty much forget about academic advancement if you are a white male - all the open seats are going to women until they hit 50/50. There is going to be a whole lost generation of male academics.
State funding has fallen.
Even though the tuition of American college has risen, there is a lot of push back on rising college costs.
State U wants to keep in-state tuition down while the state legislature cuts their funding.
Private U wants to increase financial aid and admit fewer students to be more “selective”
State U does this by taking in wealthy out of state and foreign students. For example, at Wisconsin there are several brand new luxury apartment complexes for children of rich New Yorkers and other wealthy student.
The solution is to take a large number of foreign students who pay full ride.
No, State U absolutely DOES NOT want to keep their costs down, P.L. Otherwise how do you explain the huge building spree on campus, the student gym with coffee bar that (the whole huge complex) is better than the gym that the faculty and staff goes to? There are no more cinder-block dorms with double-occupancy and plain old cafeteria food (fried chicken, some other meats, your jellos, your mac & cheese, that sort of thing). Instead the student union has 5 coffee places, 10 fast-food joints, no more pool tables and pinball games, but computer rooms and fancy lounge chairs. The dorms are 5-star vs. the 2-star apartment buildings that graduates with JOBS used to move into AFTER college.
Right now the State U’s, and all the rest, for that matter, are on their own free ride, courtesy of the current students’ grandchildren, who will be on the hook for the interest on that to-be-blown-off student debt, right now at $1,500,000,000,000 and climbing with > 15% in default (depending on how you define “default”). They have no problem building 2 new buildings each year and adding on new Chairpersons of Dievirsity, Assistant Chairpersons of Dieversity, and Assistants TO the Chairpersons of Dieversity. All it takes is to assure the new students’ parents that “yes, yes you can afford to send your child here for a good time for 4, aaah 5, shoot, make it 6, years of a good time. We will even help you fill out the financial aid paperwork. Let me show you this important dotted line to sign on it too ….”
This is what happens, Paleo Liberal, when you introduce what we actual Liberals call a “moral hazard”, this one being the US Feral Gov’t’s guaranteeing of student loans. It’s a real shit show, or it will be when this bubble pops. The Chinese students will just get to bail out either back to home or with some kind of work visa turned into a green card or can disappear into a China town somewhere …
And it ain’t just cheating!
Here we have Jerry Chun Shing Lee, who somehow manages to become a CIA agent, and then he… spies for China! Because NOT hiring Chinese guys to be in the CIA would be racist.
https://www.scribd.com/document/408459630/Lee-Statement-of-Facts
Aside from the cheating, I think the situation is actually better now than in the past because Engrish language instruction has improved (so many tools available online, in phones, etc.) and kids are motivated to learn English at an earlier age in order to access pop culture. If you start studying Engrish after puberty it's pretty much a lost cause as far as pronunciation goes because at some point your brain loses the ability to reprogram the sounds you are capable of making and there is a high degree of non-overlap between the phonemes needed to speak English and most Asian languages. There are still a lot of Chinese that speak terrible Engrish but there is also an increasing # who speak decent to good English as well.
I don’t care if they have the diction of Laurence Olivier. They’re foreigners (and non-whites) taking incredibly valuable slots at are OUR universities to steal our technology at worst and, at best, to learn skills that they’ll use to undermine our businesses and military. Maybe those skills could be put to better use by, you know, Americans.
What the hell is wrong with people around here?!
You guys really hate the simple idea of us vs them. Every decision starts with the question: Is it good for our people? (We’re all Jews now, so time to start acting like it.) Allowing 300,000 Chinese to grab our university slots isn’t “good for Americans” – not that I consider all American citizens to be my people anymore, but I’ll indulge the CivNat vibe in these parts.
State funding has fallen.
Even though the tuition of American college has risen, there is a lot of push back on rising college costs.
State U wants to keep in-state tuition down while the state legislature cuts their funding.
Private U wants to increase financial aid and admit fewer students to be more “selective”
State U does this by taking in wealthy out of state and foreign students. For example, at Wisconsin there are several brand new luxury apartment complexes for children of rich New Yorkers and other wealthy student.
The solution is to take a large number of foreign students who pay full ride.
That is not to say I disagree with your comment completely, P.L. Yes, the U’s want that full tuition money from the Chinese (and Indians to a lesser degree – lower numbers as far as I see).
Yes, funding has been cut. It sure doesn’t help for a state legislator to walk through campus and feel he’s not in his same country anymore, much less his same state. The point of the state government funding these place to begin with is to create learned men/women and talented people that can make THAT state a better place. With New Yorkers in town, who will do nothing but deride the city to their big-city friends once they leave, what is the point again?
But college COSTS have risen because the colleges LUV spending lots of money, and they can get as much as they want. Do you think the adjunct instructors that they use more and more to do all the grunt work teaching (the grading, etc) have gotten raises? No, they are making less in real dollars than ever.
As far as keeping costs down, you are correct that almost every college and university has wasted money. But there is some pressure to keep costs down. As you mentioned, much of the burden of cost cutting is put on adjunct faculty. I spent a few years as adjunct faculty in the 1990s. I was in poverty the entire time. I think the MOST money I made in a year in the mid 1990s was a little over $17k. That was NYC, where the wages were higher and the cost of living MUCH higher.
I was married with a young child, and my wife had a dead end job making about $25k. Between WIC, our combined earnings, her good health insurance and a beat up junker of a car we got as a wedding present, we barely made ends meet. Not a way to raise a family.
In any case, my point is that the way public universities are set up, they need a large number of students paying full out of state tuition to balance their budgets. The source can be rich New Yorkers or crazy rich Asians.
In the meantime, fewer in state students get to attend their State U, especially the flagship campus. That tends to decrease support for the State U amongst the voters I would guess
There are no organizations dedicated to cheating on IQ tests. Most of the IQ tests you’re familiar with are administered by western researchers, who show up unannounced so nobody prepares for them anyway.
Is it possible that someone cheats for national prestige? Sure. But you’ll find that cheating among average Chinese is usually aimed towards making money.
I’ve also seen data on NE Asians adopted at birth and raised in the West by Whites and this supports the conclusion of a slightly higher overall IQ. I doubt Chinese and Koreans giving their children up for adoption represent the cognitive elite of their countries.
Like the Black-White difference, it’s supported by many lines of evidence: observation; mental reaction times; GWAS; adoption studies; etc. The main difference being that the Black-White difference is a full SD, while the White-NE Asian difference is relatively small.
OT: I also find it interesting that different races have different cognitive profiles (eg spatial and performance IQ v verbal IQ). I even notice differences in the Big Five personality traits, but don’t have anything scientific to back it up, only my own lifelong experience with “multiculturalism” (ie, Blacks are high on extroversion; Asians high on agreeableness; etc).
https://web.archive.org/web/20170225143550/https://biculturalism.ucr.edu/pdfs/Schmitt%20et%20al_JCCP2007.pdf
Countries rather than races, but probably gives some clues.
Oddly though, your examples don't really show up (see Figures 1 and 2). In fact, the paper says:I wonder what is going on there.
The US has built up the finest university system in the world.
The seeds were planted in colonial times. Many of the colonists, especially the Puritans, were highly educated. I have Puritan ancestors who were highly educated when they came over from England in the 1600s. Graduated college in the 1500s. England still has a fine university system, and ours was copied from theirs. That is why so many of the top old universities are in New England.
Next step — many of our Founding Fathers valued higher education. Jefferson and Franklin did much to promote higher education.
After the Civil War, the USA invested in the Land Grant University system. The idea was to have university research that would help the common man, especially in agricultural science. The epitome of that is the “Wisconsin Idea”, that the boundaries of the University are the borders of the state. Most famously, U of Wisconsin specialized in dairy research. Hence America’s Dairyland.
After WW II there was a quintuple boost to the University system:
First, the GI Bill opened the doors of the University to the common man.
Second, WW II devastated the European continent universities. The three top universities in Europe are all within a short distance from each other in England. Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, in the cities of Oxford, Cambridge and London. Many of the top scholars went to the US either during, after, or even long after WW II (the Brain Drain of the 50s and 60s).
Third, there was an unprecedented post war economic boom, requiring a large number of college grads, and also Masters, Doctorate and Professional degrees.
Fourth, there was the Baby Boom kids coming of age, with their families hoping for college education for their kids.
Fifth, there was a huge increase in government grants, especially from the Eisenhower through Carter years. There is still a lot of research money, just not as much as there would’ve been. This was coupled with increased spending by state governments, which has waned over the years.
Note that during all of this time college education was relatively inexpensive.
Things have changed. But the infrastructure is there. And it is still better than what any other country has.
Yes. If you look at any of the international ranking systems, the US (and to a lesser extent the UK) dominate the rankings. Germany, which was once a great center of university education (indeed our polytechnic U’s like MIT were copied from the German system) is more or less nowhere compared to where it should be. A lot of things recovered after the war in Germany but university education never fully recovered from their loss of their Jewish and liberal faculty and then deNazification. Once you got rid of first all the Jews and Commies and then all the Nazis, who was left?
Our university system is one of our few remaining crown jewels but you can count on Clown World to muck it up. It’s only a matter of time now. The #1 criterion for faculty advancement now is that you identify as a woman. They would make being black the #1 criterion but they know that it’s hopeless to try to find more than a few token blacks who are able to do work at research prof. level. (White and Asian) women can at least come close. For the next 20 or 30 years or for as long as it takes for half the current faculty to retire or die, you can pretty much forget about academic advancement if you are a white male – all the open seats are going to women until they hit 50/50. There is going to be a whole lost generation of male academics.
Not long ago I bought a toilet bowl brush. I didn’t like the shape of it, but that was the only kind in the store, even though the seemingly same thing came also in another brand.
The plastic bristles came apart en masse with the first use.
Crappy stuff. Limited selection.
The easiest way to get the Chinese students to stop invading our universities is to cancel all work visas. It’s what they’re really here for. That would get rid of all the Indians too. The student visa is just a pretext for them to get into the country, they never leave after that.
The most ambitious are smart, study hard AND cheat. Anything to get it done.
My Hispanic and black students who cheated were probably mostly Christians.
Asian students who cheated were probably mostly atheist, some Buddhist or Christian. Among the Asians the PRC students were worse than Japanese or Koreans, although there was a notorious case of a former student of mine from Korea being convicted of Medicaid fraud. He can no longer practice medicine.
At the time the percentage of Russians in NY was heavily Jewish, but I don’t know the religion of these students. The probability is high most were Jewish, but that is not known for sure.
All I know is that there was a very strong correlation between nationality and cheating, but not between religion and cheating.
Omission of the students’ religion is simply because it was an unknown, unmeasured and probably irrelevant factor. Unless one wants to blame The (((Tribe))) for all of the world’s woes. That would give the (((Tribe))) far more power than any group of people could possibly have.
We all know being Jewish is both a religion and an ethnicity. That’s why lots of non-practicing Jews still identify as Jewish, and the Jewish lineage is supposedly only passed down from the maternal side. Their real religion is holocaustianity.
Poorly Made in China is a book worth reading and sharing (as is End of Cheap China); I was introduced to it by a 4chan story, which does not appear in the book but which rings true, that good Chinese manufacturing is possible provided you station a knowledgable, detail-oriented, and hardnosed yet diplomatic man on site to watch their every move. This was the function of the author of Poorly Made at a soap plant. The 4chan story was about steel. An American company didn’t like the price quoted by a reputable Russian firm and decided to try a Chinese mill. There were a million hiccups and overruns. When they finally get a look at the steel, it’s rusting. Why wasn’t it sprayed with anti-rust compound, per the international steel standard? The international steel standard? Oh, we thought you meant the Huangzhou steel standard. Also anti-rust cost extra. The guy posting the story was advising aspiring businessmen to not boast about speaking Chinese because that would likely get you a spot as the on-site watcher.
Americans have a hard time understanding a lot of American rules are based on the “honor system” and this system does not exist in non-Western countries. Honor system means students are supposed to behave ethically even if they can get away with cheating. Others will not monitor you as they assume you are an honorable person.
The ideal of this system is a professor that hands out an exam, leaves the room and comes back to collect the exam papers at the end, fully confident none of his students would cheat.
Chinese and other students don’t accept the honor system. They believe it is authorities job to monitor the students to make sure they don’t cheat. If the authorities aren’t putting in anti-cheating rules then they are inviting the students to cheat.
“but we’re a generation ahead in being cognizant of the rot.”
I hope so, but don’t actually see it.
I have attempted to talk many bright but not brilliant young people out of college or grad school. Mostly it was completely futile, trying to undue a life of pro-ed brainwashing.
My only real success was steering a guy considering Phd, law, and medical school into the latter, and then reapplying after the first round didn’t result in any scholarships and mostly Caribbean school acceptances.
He ended up interning with a top local doctor for a year, redoing the MCAT, and got a full scholarship at a respectable US school the next year.
The US has built up the finest university system in the world.
The seeds were planted in colonial times. Many of the colonists, especially the Puritans, were highly educated. I have Puritan ancestors who were highly educated when they came over from England in the 1600s. Graduated college in the 1500s. England still has a fine university system, and ours was copied from theirs. That is why so many of the top old universities are in New England.
Next step — many of our Founding Fathers valued higher education. Jefferson and Franklin did much to promote higher education.
After the Civil War, the USA invested in the Land Grant University system. The idea was to have university research that would help the common man, especially in agricultural science. The epitome of that is the “Wisconsin Idea”, that the boundaries of the University are the borders of the state. Most famously, U of Wisconsin specialized in dairy research. Hence America’s Dairyland.
After WW II there was a quintuple boost to the University system:
First, the GI Bill opened the doors of the University to the common man.
Second, WW II devastated the European continent universities. The three top universities in Europe are all within a short distance from each other in England. Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, in the cities of Oxford, Cambridge and London. Many of the top scholars went to the US either during, after, or even long after WW II (the Brain Drain of the 50s and 60s).
Third, there was an unprecedented post war economic boom, requiring a large number of college grads, and also Masters, Doctorate and Professional degrees.
Fourth, there was the Baby Boom kids coming of age, with their families hoping for college education for their kids.
Fifth, there was a huge increase in government grants, especially from the Eisenhower through Carter years. There is still a lot of research money, just not as much as there would’ve been. This was coupled with increased spending by state governments, which has waned over the years.
Note that during all of this time college education was relatively inexpensive.
Things have changed. But the infrastructure is there. And it is still better than what any other country has.
Excellent comment.
If we’re going to have mass education of relatively useless languages, I’d rather see secondary European languages like Polish, Hungarian, Serbo-Croatian to forge stronger ties with those countries.
Men with a classical education wrote our Constitution. Men, and increasingly women, with a modern education can't even read it.
The ideal of this system is a professor that hands out an exam, leaves the room and comes back to collect the exam papers at the end, fully confident none of his students would cheat.
Chinese and other students don't accept the honor system. They believe it is authorities job to monitor the students to make sure they don't cheat. If the authorities aren't putting in anti-cheating rules then they are inviting the students to cheat.
Southern colleges often have an honor system so you can have things like take-home closed book exams. We did at Rice U. in Houston. They used to be explicitly based on a What Would Robert E. Lee Do mindset?
Japanese marketing: We constantly conduct focus groups with American soccer moms to track their changing opinions and underlying feelings about the optimal number of cup holders in their SUVs.
Chinese marketing: Real cheap! You buy now!
The Chinese don't think like that.
This happens "Once in a lifetime"Living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself
In another part of the world
And you may find yourself
In a top Chinese restaurant ordering takeout
Nobody knows. China is very large and populous hence it is hard to get representative samples. IQ tests in the diaspora should be fairly accurate but unrepresentative since people from southern, coastal provinces and richer & more educated new immigrants are way overrepresented.
The average genotypical IQ of China should be good. As for the average phenotypical IQ it can suck in poor and rural areas due to malnutrition. That can be easily fixed and is probably being fixed.
An old friend is teaching and managing quality control in China for an American chemical products company. Apparently the company set up production facilities over there, like everybody else.
He likes the food.
I am reminded of what W. Edwards Deming did for Japan, but my friend’s job is of course only at one company. Even though some slipshod work still comes out of their country, there is little doubt Chinese producers will continue to improve quality where it matters to them. Whether or not they reach Japanese levels is of course another question.
As an old boomer I still collect and build plastic models, a hobby dying out in the US but still going elsewhere. We are now getting Chinese companies in the market competing against Japanese, American, Korean and European manufacturers. The top Chinese kits are equal to the best Japanese ones in quality, detail, and molding technology, but despite much lower labor costs, they cost anywhere from the same as equivalent Japanese kits up to 50% more. I love the hobby but not enough to spend $250 on a plastic model kit.
The Eastern Europeans including the Russians are rapidly improving in quality but so far their prices are still reasonable.
OTOH, $38k for some Chinese guy may not sound so bad. It's just like all the other "jobs Americans won't do" categories - employers offer low pay and then complain that they can't find Americans to do the work and have "no choice" but to recruit and hire immigrants.
Dermatology has to be a great field with the rise in skin cancers from the sun. Friend of mine, the only doctor he really cares about and wants to get right is his dermatologist. He stays out of the sun as much as he can.
And given how we’ve all known some real dumb-dumbs, right? Okay, it’s just anecdotal, but to give a favorite example…My first summer job was for a cafeteria chain, an outlet attached to a tech factory. I was the lone volunteer to help one Saturday morning to make sack lunches for some weekend event. I was making the sandwiches, my Chinese boss assembling the rest. At some point I observed that my boss was making little packets of, not cookies but raw cookie dough! He was oblivious to this even though the large refrigerated box was clearly labeled with baking instructions.
The US has built up the finest university system in the world.
The seeds were planted in colonial times. Many of the colonists, especially the Puritans, were highly educated. I have Puritan ancestors who were highly educated when they came over from England in the 1600s. Graduated college in the 1500s. England still has a fine university system, and ours was copied from theirs. That is why so many of the top old universities are in New England.
Next step — many of our Founding Fathers valued higher education. Jefferson and Franklin did much to promote higher education.
After the Civil War, the USA invested in the Land Grant University system. The idea was to have university research that would help the common man, especially in agricultural science. The epitome of that is the “Wisconsin Idea”, that the boundaries of the University are the borders of the state. Most famously, U of Wisconsin specialized in dairy research. Hence America’s Dairyland.
After WW II there was a quintuple boost to the University system:
First, the GI Bill opened the doors of the University to the common man.
Second, WW II devastated the European continent universities. The three top universities in Europe are all within a short distance from each other in England. Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, in the cities of Oxford, Cambridge and London. Many of the top scholars went to the US either during, after, or even long after WW II (the Brain Drain of the 50s and 60s).
Third, there was an unprecedented post war economic boom, requiring a large number of college grads, and also Masters, Doctorate and Professional degrees.
Fourth, there was the Baby Boom kids coming of age, with their families hoping for college education for their kids.
Fifth, there was a huge increase in government grants, especially from the Eisenhower through Carter years. There is still a lot of research money, just not as much as there would’ve been. This was coupled with increased spending by state governments, which has waned over the years.
Note that during all of this time college education was relatively inexpensive.
Things have changed. But the infrastructure is there. And it is still better than what any other country has.
If you’re oblivious to the influence of the Prussian model, especially in the establishment of research universities, you know half the story at best.
Yep. This is a consequence of an extreme level of competition. The non-academic version of it is called “surviving in pre-modern Malthusian China”. You need to be smart, diligent, low time preferences AND an asshole.
This is easy to understand. Japan just like Europe had feudalism not that long ago. On the other hand China was a society that entered the fellahin stage from a Spenglerian POV more than 1,000 years ago.
Our university system is one of our few remaining crown jewels but you can count on Clown World to muck it up. It's only a matter of time now. The #1 criterion for faculty advancement now is that you identify as a woman. They would make being black the #1 criterion but they know that it's hopeless to try to find more than a few token blacks who are able to do work at research prof. level. (White and Asian) women can at least come close. For the next 20 or 30 years or for as long as it takes for half the current faculty to retire or die, you can pretty much forget about academic advancement if you are a white male - all the open seats are going to women until they hit 50/50. There is going to be a whole lost generation of male academics.
There already is. The head of PhD programs at the highly-rated grad school I attended told me that as the first woman in her position that she felt obligated to focus exclusively on the advancement of women until equity was achieved. That was 2004.
She justified this by saying that I was so talented I wouldn’t have any trouble finding other opportunities. I’m far from alone in hearing that rationale. I wouldn’t be surprised if the missing men weren’t clustered at the top of the ability distribution for just that reason, which would of course be disastrous for the institutions in question.
That’s very true though. I bought a pair of trousers at a little Japanese shop once. Lady wouldn’t let me leave. They were mass-produced trousers from a shelf and she insisted on doing a couple of tailorings (at this time I had not yet received my current panza). And of course the bag is always folded a certain way and handed over with both hands like it’s porcelain. The Japanese have this idea that, I might not be able to do it, but it won’t be for lack of effort or attention. Possibly a result of living on a rocky island with minimal arable land.
The Chinese don’t think like that.
I am one of the few people to ever get a cash money refund at a Chinese restaurant. This was 25 years ago on an $18 take out order. I ordered right on the premises. I knew my order was completed but the woman up front kept on taking phone orders as MY ORDER rotted back in the kitchen. When she finally brought out my order I felt into the paper bag and could feel my order was lukewarm at best. I demanded my money back…the heavens opened up… and I got my money back.
This happens “Once in a lifetime”
Living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself
In another part of the world
And you may find yourself
In a top Chinese restaurant ordering takeout
The US has built up the finest university system in the world.
The seeds were planted in colonial times. Many of the colonists, especially the Puritans, were highly educated. I have Puritan ancestors who were highly educated when they came over from England in the 1600s. Graduated college in the 1500s. England still has a fine university system, and ours was copied from theirs. That is why so many of the top old universities are in New England.
Next step — many of our Founding Fathers valued higher education. Jefferson and Franklin did much to promote higher education.
After the Civil War, the USA invested in the Land Grant University system. The idea was to have university research that would help the common man, especially in agricultural science. The epitome of that is the “Wisconsin Idea”, that the boundaries of the University are the borders of the state. Most famously, U of Wisconsin specialized in dairy research. Hence America’s Dairyland.
After WW II there was a quintuple boost to the University system:
First, the GI Bill opened the doors of the University to the common man.
Second, WW II devastated the European continent universities. The three top universities in Europe are all within a short distance from each other in England. Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, in the cities of Oxford, Cambridge and London. Many of the top scholars went to the US either during, after, or even long after WW II (the Brain Drain of the 50s and 60s).
Third, there was an unprecedented post war economic boom, requiring a large number of college grads, and also Masters, Doctorate and Professional degrees.
Fourth, there was the Baby Boom kids coming of age, with their families hoping for college education for their kids.
Fifth, there was a huge increase in government grants, especially from the Eisenhower through Carter years. There is still a lot of research money, just not as much as there would’ve been. This was coupled with increased spending by state governments, which has waned over the years.
Note that during all of this time college education was relatively inexpensive.
Things have changed. But the infrastructure is there. And it is still better than what any other country has.
You should read if you have not already John Taylor Gatto’s Underground History of American Public Education.
LOL
Here’s someone who is a cousin of a (Chinese) friend whose family has been here for a couple of generations:
https://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/sommers
A perfect American elite goodwhite, with all that implies good and bad.
She’s just a couple of generations ahead of most Chinese Americans – this is what the grandchildren of today’s SAT cheaters will look like if they stay here.
I think Tiger Woods once called himself Cablinasian or something like that for Caucasian/black/(American) Indian/Asian. Future Chinese Americans aren't going to be very black or Hispanic as you fear, but they are going to be JewWASPAsian.
There is going to be a whole lost generation of male academics.
Good, they will be more useful working for a living.
Cheating here is rampant, and expected.
Their values are completely, totally different from Western ideas. No value at all placed on honesty or straight dealing.
Read Paul Midler’s book “Poorly made in China” to get a taste.
https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077
Hey, I thought I was the only guy here with this view of the Chinese.
The West has a guilt culture. Asia has a shame culture.
Getting caught is a problem, cheating not at all. Believe me, the Chinese lose no sleep over it.
Super low trust environment.
“A man’s word is his bond” is not spoken here.
Useless?
Men with a classical education wrote our Constitution. Men, and increasingly women, with a modern education can’t even read it.
How much study of Ancient Greek would it take to read the Illiad such that your comprehension and appreciation would be higher than me reading Alexander Pope’s translation? Or of Latin to exceed that of reading Dryden’s translation of Plutarch? I’d say quite a large amount.
It is nice that some people make the effort anyway. But if we could wave a wand a make 500,000 Americans instantly fluent in Ancient Greek or Polish, I’ll choose Polish without hesitation.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/67/cf/6c/67cf6c31d630deaec8afa93825319199.jpg
You can pass on the Japanese cup holder option by getting a Chinese one at Dollar Tree.
The financial fraud guy was the one dealing directly with the soccer coach and ratted out the coach when the Feds starting putting heat on him for the finance stuff.
They were experiencing an inundation of doctoral students, some of whom were supposed to teach, who could barely order a meal in English. Of course, as an undergrad I had a similar experience in 1980 with a Japanese TA, so I guess this has been a problem for decades.
At Iowa State, circa 1974, the worst offender was a full time professor of Engineering Mechanics.
If you’re lucky, that is.
It’s not such a terrible thing that the smartest PhD’s around are doing productive things in the private sector instead of building castles in the sky like every other academic. PhysicistDave will probably tell you that private industry isn’t quite the salt mines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjzC1Dgh17A
Have any of you considered that cheating the Cheating Chinese might be a good thing in some people’s eyes? Everything about these stories has a common denominator, lots of Chinese paying an exorbitant amount of money for literally nothing useful; in fact the opportunity cost puts them at a net negative. Where Chinese are slavishly buying Western luxury products like Gucci, Canadian Goose, and the College Experience, they are not developing any worthwhile skills or insights they could not have obtained at home by reading a book in English or any other language that could be freely downloaded from the internet despite the so-called Great Firewall. Don’t get me started on their penchant for Western real estate, which is going to be worthless to them once they are stuck an ocean or two away. When WWIII kicks off and their property is expropriated, they are going to wonder if their money wasn’t better spent on swords or ploughshares. Of course, this is all part of the plan. Two billion Chinese is still more than enough to give the waning West enough trouble that both sides will be brought to their knees to await Judgement.
Here's someone who is a cousin of a (Chinese) friend whose family has been here for a couple of generations:
https://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/sommers
A perfect American elite goodwhite, with all that implies good and bad.
She's just a couple of generations ahead of most Chinese Americans - this is what the grandchildren of today's SAT cheaters will look like if they stay here.
PS at least she isn’t some kind of Reform Rabbi like one of Roosevelt’s great grandchildren. Although my friend’s kid had a bar mitzvah (Jewish spouse) so who knows what’s in his descendants’ future.
I think Tiger Woods once called himself Cablinasian or something like that for Caucasian/black/(American) Indian/Asian. Future Chinese Americans aren’t going to be very black or Hispanic as you fear, but they are going to be JewWASPAsian.
1. Don’t hold your breath. You could die waiting. Generations already have. Commies are like cockroaches – once you are infested it’s very hard to get rid of them.
2. Maybe you might want to “go home” when the commies are gone but your kids won’t and your grandchildren sure as hell won’t – they won’t even speak the language. If the Castro family falls in Cuba tomorrow, how many Cubans from the 1960s exile are going back? How many Poles who left in the 40s went back in 89? (Even more left). You may think it’s temporary but it ain’t.
Our new young friend EastK is a incel/MGOTW, so won’t have that problem.
https://nextshark-vxdsockgvw3ki.stackpathdns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/A-5.jpg
http://i2.asntown.net/5/funny_animes.jpg
Good, they will be more useful working for a living.
And on cue comes the Scylla of ignorance to go with the Charybdis of feminist fancifulness.
Men with a classical education wrote our Constitution. Men, and increasingly women, with a modern education can't even read it.
Amen brother.
Most countries MUCH prefer that you NOT understand their language.
The US has built up the finest university system in the world.
The seeds were planted in colonial times. Many of the colonists, especially the Puritans, were highly educated. I have Puritan ancestors who were highly educated when they came over from England in the 1600s. Graduated college in the 1500s. England still has a fine university system, and ours was copied from theirs. That is why so many of the top old universities are in New England.
Next step — many of our Founding Fathers valued higher education. Jefferson and Franklin did much to promote higher education.
After the Civil War, the USA invested in the Land Grant University system. The idea was to have university research that would help the common man, especially in agricultural science. The epitome of that is the “Wisconsin Idea”, that the boundaries of the University are the borders of the state. Most famously, U of Wisconsin specialized in dairy research. Hence America’s Dairyland.
After WW II there was a quintuple boost to the University system:
First, the GI Bill opened the doors of the University to the common man.
Second, WW II devastated the European continent universities. The three top universities in Europe are all within a short distance from each other in England. Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial, in the cities of Oxford, Cambridge and London. Many of the top scholars went to the US either during, after, or even long after WW II (the Brain Drain of the 50s and 60s).
Third, there was an unprecedented post war economic boom, requiring a large number of college grads, and also Masters, Doctorate and Professional degrees.
Fourth, there was the Baby Boom kids coming of age, with their families hoping for college education for their kids.
Fifth, there was a huge increase in government grants, especially from the Eisenhower through Carter years. There is still a lot of research money, just not as much as there would’ve been. This was coupled with increased spending by state governments, which has waned over the years.
Note that during all of this time college education was relatively inexpensive.
Things have changed. But the infrastructure is there. And it is still better than what any other country has.
The finest system, by far. Our 50th ranked universities/colleges are as good as, or better than, say, the best five in most other countries. There’s a depth of choice and availability of good college education here that other countries simply don’t have. At least some of the demand from Asian/foreign students is because many pretty smart students in countries like China or India simply have no good choices, in terms of quality college spots available locally. Of course, most of the demand is because they wish to eventually settle down here.
Times change. “Made in Japan” was once synonymous with junk – cheap hand and kitchen tools, cheap toys, all the stuff that came from China until yesterday (and is increasingly coming from Vietnam and other places as China moves upmarket). The first Japanese cars were not whisper quiet Lexi but rattle trappy jokes with air cooled 2 cyl motorcycle engines that make Geelys look like Cadillacs in comparison.
And I still haven't heard how the IQ numbers themselves are obtained. Furthermore, no one has proven to me that China tests ALL of it's people, particularly the ones way out there living like peasants. How good is China, really, at testing and compiling ALL of it's people's IQ scores? And how do we know they don't inflate them?
Responders here have given good reasons, however, to believe in high Chinese average IQ. Since I am a believer in, and user of, intuition, I will not argue against them.
This is why I posit that there IS a reason why China/Chinese people would be motivated to cheat and score high on IQ, in whatever way that score would be obtained.
I agree, and that reason is that it would be shameful not to have the highest IQ.
If any students are reading, there are a ton of litte hyper-specific college scholarships that only ask that you learn a little Serbo-Croat or something like that.
Here's someone who is a cousin of a (Chinese) friend whose family has been here for a couple of generations:
https://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/sommers
A perfect American elite goodwhite, with all that implies good and bad.
She's just a couple of generations ahead of most Chinese Americans - this is what the grandchildren of today's SAT cheaters will look like if they stay here.
She isn’t elite at all. Is she remotely as powerful as a Rothschild or even a Rockefeller? No. Of course it is possible for NE Asian folks in the West to become as rich as Trump. That’s not enough when we talk about the actual elite.
It takes generations to build a real elite from Habsburgs and Bourbons to Medicis assuming that such opportunities are available at all. After all an AI takeover or a devastating WWIII can happen at any time.
It was a different time, and back then, getting some Sociology degree would be seen as pretty much the same waste of time as I myself see it as now. Though he would probably never use a lick of his education, I think that you are right that his parent could be proud that "my son is an engineer"*
.
* Yes, a CCC engineer (Cheap-Chicken-Cookin') but a degreed CCC engineeer nonetheless!
I wasn’t trying to suggest that you were, just that, well, you’ve got to be careful, don’t you? We’re both anonymous strangers on the internet, and anonymous people on the internet make up weirder things than that, and at tremendous cost in terms of time and effort, and for no apparent gain (e.g. all those people on 4 and 8chan pretending to be disgruntled CIA agents).
But it certainly seems plausible to me.
Incidentally, tying this back to my other comment about the supposedly highly civilised, high-IQ Chinese: isn’t there a strong whiff of the cargo cult about this behaviour? Successful people who make their ancestors proud have engineering degrees from American universities, so, son, you’ve got to get one. No connection is made between success and the engineering degree and a subsequent career in engineering.
Nobody in the Great and the Good caste is going to pay any attention to this until an airplane with a senator’s son on it falls out of the sky.
Judgement? What do you mean? Christian eschatology? Alien invasion? AI takeover? New World Order?
You are too good as a Machiavellian to actually be religious (or a believer in any secular ethics) as far as I know..
Men with a classical education wrote our Constitution. Men, and increasingly women, with a modern education can't even read it.
Consider the background of the other commenter.
The private sector expects results.
In imperial times it was a crime for a Chinese to teach the Chinese language to a foreigner.
Most men here have never spent time in China. How could they know anything about it?
The West has a guilt culture. Asia has a shame culture.
Getting caught is a problem, cheating not at all. Believe me, the Chinese lose no sleep over it.
Super low trust environment.
“A man’s word is his bond” is not spoken here.
1. Overseas Chinese, including the children of prole peasants who immigrated to be unskilled agricultural workers, all test around 105, going back 100 years.
2. Close relatives South Koreans and Japanese also test around 105 in high quality national tests.
3. Extreme Chinese overperformance on g-loaded tasks everywhere they have settled.
4. Low-stakes testing with no incentive to cram/cheat.
5. Higher Chinese IQ is also consistent with a lot of other indirect evidence, like fitting perfectly with Rushton’s NE Asian - White - Black ordering in a large number of human traits, including brain weight.
How do we know that these prole peasants weren’t nonetheless the intellectual elite of the prole peasant class? We surely don’t know the IQ of the prole peasants back in China at the time, and having the wherewithal to scrape together enough money to afford passage to America and succeed in a foreign country, even as an unskilled agricultural worker, is surely somewhat indicative of intelligence.
Put it this way: if you’re a Chinese peasant and your options are unskilled agricultural work in China, or the same in America for twice as much money and the possibility of social advancement, wouldn’t it be smart to choose the latter?
A couple of years ago I noticed “Craftsman” labels on some Chinese made hand tools, so they are definitely stepping up on QC.
The Chinese ruin everything: manufacturing and academia, as alluded to here, food and drugs (via adulteration), and even entertainment (all movies are now mindless cartoon repeats of Shit Blows Up! ...Again).
I know. This is really just yet another Second World problem just like industrial pollution. When you were Third World you didn’t have it. When you become First World you won’t have it either..
Chinese ethics:
Everybody cheats, cheating is a normal component of winning and OK as long as you don’t get caught. The only real cheating is when you are unfairly stopped from cheating like everyone else.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.html
By the time they reach the same level of quality the costs will also be high.
As an old boomer I still collect and build plastic models, a hobby dying out in the US but still going elsewhere. We are now getting Chinese companies in the market competing against Japanese, American, Korean and European manufacturers. The top Chinese kits are equal to the best Japanese ones in quality, detail, and molding technology, but despite much lower labor costs, they cost anywhere from the same as equivalent Japanese kits up to 50% more. I love the hobby but not enough to spend $250 on a plastic model kit.
The Eastern Europeans including the Russians are rapidly improving in quality but so far their prices are still reasonable.
https://www.heroforge.com/
You can also try a Kickstarter, like the one that yielded these Chechen tin soldiers.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1026360580/28mm-russian-and-chechen-miniatures
Cheating here is rampant, and expected.
Their values are completely, totally different from Western ideas. No value at all placed on honesty or straight dealing.
Read Paul Midler’s book “Poorly made in China” to get a taste.
https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077
Poorly Made in China is a good book and a window into Chinese morality or lack of it in many cases.
Why? No, not because it means that much in China - it's because the kids could not get into a good school in China! Yes, that's how far we've fallen: whoring out pieces of paper and a good time for 5 years (if these kids even CAN DRINK without getting red in the face and throwing up) for the money, never mind the other students paying out-the-ass IN-State tuition and fees.
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* Nothing personal against that place in particular4, but think of whether that name means anything to people in China!
They have a kick-ass football team, unfortunately for our local state university that plays against them.
Of course the wellspring of fresh Jewish immigration to America was destroyed while presumably we are never going to run out of Asians, but the Asians who are here already are going to assimilate into the American elite and not keep up their "Asian" ways (and that includes cheating).
“Asians who are here already are going to assimilate into the American elite and not keep up their “Asian” ways (and that includes cheating).”
They won’t need to cheat. Like the Jews they will use in group preference to advance over more qualified whites
Peak Stupidity has a topic key on the Cheap China-made Crap, and my favorite story is on the $5 tire-repair kit. If things like this have a limited shelf-life, then they are of no use at all, as you only need it when the tire has a puncture (in the tread). That was the point that I realized that the thing was a POS as the handle came off of the tool. Returning it was the funny and embarrassing part of the story.
Scylla again, this time with another SD or two. This is how we lost the Liberal Arts without a shot being fired. The SJWs are just weeds growing in that abandoned field.
Men with a classical education wrote our Constitution. Men, and increasingly women, with a modern education can't even read it.
The main second language of the founding fathers was French, and they cited Montesquieu more than any classical writer. In 1776 Latin was in serious decline as the universal language. Latin is even less useful now since it isn’t a universal language at all rather than a declining one, and further because all the most important classical works have been translated to English by experts.
How much study of Ancient Greek would it take to read the Illiad such that your comprehension and appreciation would be higher than me reading Alexander Pope’s translation? Or of Latin to exceed that of reading Dryden’s translation of Plutarch? I’d say quite a large amount.
It is nice that some people make the effort anyway. But if we could wave a wand a make 500,000 Americans instantly fluent in Ancient Greek or Polish, I’ll choose Polish without hesitation.
There is cheating among all student demographics at my university. The worst are the Saudis, followed by other Arabs, Africans, and some Indians. Chinese share information, such as keeping copies of returned exams to share with each other, but they don’t do the use-the-cellphone-during-the-exam kind of cheating that the others do. Among Americans, blacks are the biggest cheaters, usually the simple copy-off-the-student-next-to-you technique.
Yeah, but those latter two must cheat, their cheating has been forced upon them by diversacrats; the crazy thing about Han cheating is that they could almost certainly do everything properly if they wanted.
On a certain crazy level this makes sense – if everyone is allowed to cheat then it’s unfair if you are not allowed to cheat.
Note that this was from 2013 – there have been a lot of crackdowns against corruption since then. Also the parents’ perception that “everyone cheats” might have been distorted and self-justifying.
* In the preface of the English translation of the Water Margin I read, there's apparently a Chinese aphorism regarding the two works: "The young shouldn't read The Water Margin while the old shouldn't read The Three Kingdoms". It's a reference to the two works being almost a call to arms against the incumbent regime of just about any era.
** In contrast, most traditional European tales of derring-do revolve around the adventures of aristocrats like Achilles or Arthur, but are, in any event, almost never about violent revolution mounted by the hoi polloi.
2. Maybe you might want to "go home" when the commies are gone but your kids won't and your grandchildren sure as hell won't - they won't even speak the language. If the Castro family falls in Cuba tomorrow, how many Cubans from the 1960s exile are going back? How many Poles who left in the 40s went back in 89? (Even more left). You may think it's temporary but it ain't.
“but your kids won’t and your grandchildren sure as hell won’t“
Our new young friend EastK is a incel/MGOTW, so won’t have that problem.
“and even genes from violent tropical people such as Negroids”
Don’t knock it until you try it!
She doesn’t look violent to me.
JRoss, just Google: Steel Beams from China in new Bay Bridge to see how poor the Chinese steel product and fabrication for the New Bay Bridge. Scary. Good article in Sac Bee.
The back of the phone can only be described as, 'jewel-like.' The glass covering the screen is more scratch-resistant than the material used on my work-provided Samsung S8+. The Xiaomi was also available for $200 less than the Samsung.
That’s the phone I use. It’s an excellent product.
The Huawei P20s and P30s are also impressive.
I forgot to mention another way the Mi Mix 2S design is superior to the S8+. This involves the positioning of the fingerprint sensor.
The 2S has its sensor on the back, 1/3 the distance from the top of the phone, equidistant from the sides. The sensor has a large circular detection area. This is great, ambidextrous design. The camera is isolated in one corner, so there is no chance to touch the lens by mistake.
The S8+ fingerprint sensor/camera design is a failure compared to the 2S. The sensor is in a similar location, but it is to one side of the camera lens. Very easy to mistakenly touch and smudge the lens. The sensor itself is a smallish rectangle with rounded corners. It generates read failures if you do not touch it dead center. One has to wonder if it was designed for right-handed people with small fingers.
I’ll know within the next five years. My boys aren’t two yet.
Don’t mess with that kid’s dog!
As an old boomer I still collect and build plastic models, a hobby dying out in the US but still going elsewhere. We are now getting Chinese companies in the market competing against Japanese, American, Korean and European manufacturers. The top Chinese kits are equal to the best Japanese ones in quality, detail, and molding technology, but despite much lower labor costs, they cost anywhere from the same as equivalent Japanese kits up to 50% more. I love the hobby but not enough to spend $250 on a plastic model kit.
The Eastern Europeans including the Russians are rapidly improving in quality but so far their prices are still reasonable.
3-D printers are coming, and, expensive as they are now, there are already people who invested in one to be able to sell one-off custom models.
https://www.heroforge.com/
You can also try a Kickstarter, like the one that yielded these Chechen tin soldiers.
Cottage industry suppliers like the one you link are investing in higher quality printers to replace resin, white metal and photo-etch for small production run model parts. I don’t know if they are going through any post printing process to smooth the surfaces or they come out looking that good.
3D printing is really going to go ballistic if the printers that work in metal come down in price. Industrial printers are starting to produce metallic pieces and the engineering department at my alma mater is even printing small rocket motors in inconel, a really tough, high temperature metal. Good trick for a metal with a 2000 degree melting point. Once you can print that sort of thing the sky is the limit.
American Blacks: ‘Hold my beer.’
” There is a high level of corruption in Chinese society.” Wait, isn’t this corruption actually American corruption? The Chinese could have provided all the money in the world, but they wouldn’t gone far without American universities pretending not to notice their limited English.
A few year ago, the CEO of Toyota, a man with an MBA from Babson, was called in from of some house committee, and he spoke through interpreters. In normal circumstances, his fake MBA would have been used as evidence of poor character, but no representative complained. How was that China’s fault?
” A hammer from China” Are you traveling all the way to China? Or are you blaming the American sellers’ deceit, combined with American shoppers’ wasteful stinginess, on PRC?
My son just finished a class where the professor's English was sub-par, so he learned mostly from the textbook and the tutors.
Yes, it irks me. When you're paying as much as people pay these days for college, you should at least be able to count on good communication.
And "international?" P00-bah. It's "Foreign."
Yup, I had to learn linear algebra from a Swiss guy with an impenetrable accent. Complete BS that not only do the professors not teach, but there are no standards for the TAs.
For those who still think Asians will assimilate to western values, here’s something to think about. Washington high, San Francisco plans to remove American history murals on demand of parents and students. The murals are offensive and do not reflect the history of the student’s home countries and culture.
School is 64% Asian 18% Hispanic 8% White 4% black. It’s the Asians pushing the destruction of the murals.
Hiring people to take classes is very common among asians. Every once in a while a teacher noticed the same person has taken his or her class more than once. There may or not be a brief article in the student newspaper.
Judaism keeps descendants of Jews Jewish. What can keep descendants of NE Asians NE Asian? The women tend to marry into white families while many guys are probably incel. There is almost no mechanism that can maintain NE Asian racial and ethnic identities in the West beyond the ethnic enclaves such as Hawaii and Chinatowns. We can’t even keep our own women, let alone attracting even SEA women to identify with us.
This presupposes that the Chinese don't find the act of cheating to be a morally dubious proposition - so, they're going to do it unless and until they get caught. Westerners and Western Institutions are so far in the grip of cultural auto-masochism that the kinds of controls which would catch the Chinese in the act (and institute shaming, and thereby deter others) are out of the question, particularly so if the Chinese would play the "discrimination" gambit. So the Chinese will cheat and succeed by cheating in perpetuity.
I suppose this raises the question of the prevalence of cheating in Chinese communities in the West, and the extent that cheating remains a means to an end which Chinese are comfortable engaging in and for how many generations after arrival in a Western nation.
On the whole I'm not sanguine about Asian immigration into the United States, where normal and bright American kids are going to be outclassed by a combination of shame-based motivation of Asian kids (psychological abuse), cram-schooling and "hacking" the curricula, together with outright cheating.
When I refer to "hacking" the curricula, I refer to things like a story recounted by a commenter here that an Asian kid in his kid's peer group recently spent a summer learning the next year's mathematics subject (Geometry I think it was), but took the Geometry class anyway in the next year so that he'd score an A and top the curve without having to exert himself (and, I suppose, leaving him more time to devote to other subjects). So instead of spending the summer reading for interest, playing baseball, having a part time job and learning social skills by spending time with his peers in a normal, culturally typical American summer the Asian kid was preparing to juice his future college applications. I think this is a good part of why Asians underperform in elite institutions and in life generally - they're often academically finished products who present themselves as applicants in a system which is supposed to select for academic aptitude and predict future academic performance at higher levels. There's a limit to where grinding can get you as you proceed to higher and higher levels of academic challenge - at a certain point where your competition is rarefied and the material is more complex you'll be exposed.
To me it should be something we think about in terms of whether we want normal American kids competing for dwindling opportunities against these victims of childhood psychological abuse whose chief stratagem is foregoing all other dimensions of human development beyond rote memorization of academic topics achieved by mindless repetition.
‘having a part time job ‘ Looks like you were padding your college application as well, with your fancy cashier job. Community college. If rent goes above our means, just think of the amazing baseball you were playing when you were 16.
https://www.heroforge.com/
You can also try a Kickstarter, like the one that yielded these Chechen tin soldiers.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1026360580/28mm-russian-and-chechen-miniatures
The typical low cost 3D printers for home use have a low print resolution that leaves visible ridges in the surface. Many hobbyists have tried things like acetone vapor baths to smooth them out. (NOT a good idea)
Cottage industry suppliers like the one you link are investing in higher quality printers to replace resin, white metal and photo-etch for small production run model parts. I don’t know if they are going through any post printing process to smooth the surfaces or they come out looking that good.
3D printing is really going to go ballistic if the printers that work in metal come down in price. Industrial printers are starting to produce metallic pieces and the engineering department at my alma mater is even printing small rocket motors in inconel, a really tough, high temperature metal. Good trick for a metal with a 2000 degree melting point. Once you can print that sort of thing the sky is the limit.
Interesting. Indeed, Babes-Bolyai Maths Department claims, on their website, that they are in the Top 100 in the world. It also mentions organizing a second round of admission exams, as they are routinely unable to fill their seats in the first round. How is that congruent with 5% selectivity rate and the Top 100?
The truth is UBB peole are pathological liars, similar to their Hungarian neighbors. They do little, and boast a lot. (Maybe I missed something, how many Nobels and Fields did they get?) It may be important to do so, but you have to do it in a more credible manner.
This, of course, contrast with Donald,, Trump, and Ivanka, who volunteered in the earnest.
Hungarians are pretty well represented in hard science accomplishment and awards.
Yes, Romania and Hungary have many awards in children's competitions, mainly because these started as reginal competitions. First two editions were organized by Romania (1959, 60), and the third by Hungary (61). Shit got hard once US (second in overall historical rankings) joined in 1974, and impossible when China joined in 1992. China currently tops the historical table, despite participating in half of the editions Hungary participated. Another example of Chinese doing whatever it takes, which the geniuses here can always re-interpret as cheating.
>Chinese cheaters compared to Saudis and blacks
Yeah, but those latter two must cheat, their cheating has been forced upon them by diversacrats; the crazy thing about Han cheating is that they could almost certainly do everything properly if they wanted.
Put it this way: if you're a Chinese peasant and your options are unskilled agricultural work in China, or the same in America for twice as much money and the possibility of social advancement, wouldn't it be smart to choose the latter?
James Flynn has research suggesting average Chinese-American IQ has gone up over the generations. I believe there are differences in spelling of names, such as Wong is old time Chinese immigrants from the coolie labor days, while Wang are more recent immigrants, often with academic credentials, with Wangs tending to outperform Wongs.
In northeast Asian cultures, the word “harmony” comes up a lot. They seem to worry about a lack of harmony more than other peoples.
Mathematicians know UBB. Did you know UBB thirty years ago when my wife was there? A lot has changed.
I see you have a problem with Hungarians, Mr. Dacian. The bragging rights for what is really Bolyai University are primarily Hungarian-Transylvanian, because it was a Hungarian university in a Hungarian city before the Dacians “liberated” it, as they say. That must bother you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon
Aside from the cheating, I think the situation is actually better now than in the past because Engrish language instruction has improved (so many tools available online, in phones, etc.) and kids are motivated to learn English at an earlier age in order to access pop culture. If you start studying Engrish after puberty it's pretty much a lost cause as far as pronunciation goes because at some point your brain loses the ability to reprogram the sounds you are capable of making and there is a high degree of non-overlap between the phonemes needed to speak English and most Asian languages. There are still a lot of Chinese that speak terrible Engrish but there is also an increasing # who speak decent to good English as well.
Not always the case. I started immersion-learning English in my early 20s and have virtually no foreign accent. Most native-born, let alone foreign-born, Americans don’t pick up on my foreign upbringing during a conversation. I have met a few other folks like that. All Europeans, though, no Asians. It always surprises me, even though I have that ability myself.
I also scored in the 98th percentile of both the SAT and the GRE Verbal and can speak a few other European languages with little or no accent, even though I don’t speak them well. But I can ape the native pronunciation. I expect speaking a tonal East Asian language would be a challenge, however, even though I have a highly developed sense of pitch. Going to China and being a student at a Chinese University would be unthinkable. So I have some respect for what Asians have to go through at US universities, even though English is much, much easier than Mandarin or any other EA language.
“Wong” is from systems used in Taiwan (gradually removed since 2009), Hong Kong and Macau and should indicate either coolie ancestry or non-PRC ancestry. “Wang” on the other hand indicates PRC ancestry.
How many are actually Hungarians? How many are actually Hungarian Jews?
You might be interested in this paper: THE GEOGRAPHIC DISTRIBUTION OF BIG FIVE PERSONALITY TRAITS – Patterns and Profiles of Human Self-Description Across 56 Nations
https://web.archive.org/web/20170225143550/https://biculturalism.ucr.edu/pdfs/Schmitt%20et%20al_JCCP2007.pdf
Countries rather than races, but probably gives some clues.
Oddly though, your examples don’t really show up (see Figures 1 and 2). In fact, the paper says:
I wonder what is going on there.
A study that lumps Chinese in with Confucianists is like a study that lumps mainline mainland BJP Indians in with Buddhists.
B. Different customs about how to answer
C. Regional comparisons: e.g., Danes compare themselves to Swedes and say We're Not Like Them rather than say actually we're quite a bit like Swedes compared to Italians much less Congolese.I expect personality to vary clinally, but instead the studies seem to show it changes sharply at local national borders, which sounds like methodology problems to me.
Note that this was from 2013 - there have been a lot of crackdowns against corruption since then. Also the parents' perception that "everyone cheats" might have been distorted and self-justifying.
There’s a healthy underlying cynicism about the powers-that-be that belies the general stereotype that they’re a nation of go-along get-along people, because that’s just their innate nature. I don’t think it’s an accident that two* of the four classics of Chinese literature, The Water Margin and The Three Kingdoms, are about violent revolution**. They’re not docile. They’re just putting on a show of obsequiousness while biding their time.
* In the preface of the English translation of the Water Margin I read, there’s apparently a Chinese aphorism regarding the two works: “The young shouldn’t read The Water Margin while the old shouldn’t read The Three Kingdoms”. It’s a reference to the two works being almost a call to arms against the incumbent regime of just about any era.
** In contrast, most traditional European tales of derring-do revolve around the adventures of aristocrats like Achilles or Arthur, but are, in any event, almost never about violent revolution mounted by the hoi polloi.
China has a long history of peasant rebellions. One of the reasons that the current leadership keeps such a tight rein on things is that they know that as soon as you slack off the Chinese do crazy shit. They don't have the same "God is watching you" concept that Westerners have so if they know that no one is looking they will do pretty much anything that they are confident that can get away with. Having cameras everywhere is perfect for such a culture because now there is a man made "God" who IS watching you.
Ah, yes, Dacian — my eye lingered over that word but I was distracted and missed the import. Dacian. As in Rumanian, as in Hun-rivals still angry over Trianon …
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon
Each side has its own version of history, but clearly "the Huns" got ripped off at Trianon. Romanians have been brainwashed ever since that Eastern Hungary was always a Romanian place, and that it was "liberated."
It was stolen by foreigners at a table in France and handed over to the "Dacians," who did nothing to earn it. The purpose was to break up and weaken the Austro-Hungarian empire. What better way than to give some of it to Romanians, who couldn't possibly organize themselves into a threat against anybody.
I am normally polite about my wife's old country, but Mr. Dacian has got my hackles up. Fortunately they all live peacefully together over there, where I find myself almost once a year. In my current bad mood I will now just say that the trip is a chore, and the country is dirty and depressing. We go because we have family and a place there.
We get there through Hungary. The contrast between the two countries is like a less-pronounced version of the difference between the United States and Mexico.
As for Dacian's question about what graduates of my wife's alma mater have accomplished, the handsome man in the front of the photo is one Hermann Oberth. He was a Transylvanian Saxon (i.e. German) neither Hungarian nor Romanian.
http://nationalufocenter.com/artman/uploads/germanhermanoberth.jpg
https://web.archive.org/web/20170225143550/https://biculturalism.ucr.edu/pdfs/Schmitt%20et%20al_JCCP2007.pdf
Countries rather than races, but probably gives some clues.
Oddly though, your examples don't really show up (see Figures 1 and 2). In fact, the paper says:I wonder what is going on there.
Almost every Japanese story ever, fictional and real, is about a guy heroically determined to do something believed impossible. Honda establishing his car company after failing and failing and failing. Ueshiba making himself taller by hanging from his feet. Unscientific second most common story is Sugata or Musashi, the naturally talented wunderkind whose struggle is containing his potentially destructive ability (the climax of the first Musashi film is him running away from his enemies. Because there’s like eighty of them, and the younger Musashi would have charged in and gotten cut to shreds).
A study that lumps Chinese in with Confucianists is like a study that lumps mainline mainland BJP Indians in with Buddhists.
This presupposes that the Chinese don't find the act of cheating to be a morally dubious proposition - so, they're going to do it unless and until they get caught. Westerners and Western Institutions are so far in the grip of cultural auto-masochism that the kinds of controls which would catch the Chinese in the act (and institute shaming, and thereby deter others) are out of the question, particularly so if the Chinese would play the "discrimination" gambit. So the Chinese will cheat and succeed by cheating in perpetuity.
I suppose this raises the question of the prevalence of cheating in Chinese communities in the West, and the extent that cheating remains a means to an end which Chinese are comfortable engaging in and for how many generations after arrival in a Western nation.
On the whole I'm not sanguine about Asian immigration into the United States, where normal and bright American kids are going to be outclassed by a combination of shame-based motivation of Asian kids (psychological abuse), cram-schooling and "hacking" the curricula, together with outright cheating.
When I refer to "hacking" the curricula, I refer to things like a story recounted by a commenter here that an Asian kid in his kid's peer group recently spent a summer learning the next year's mathematics subject (Geometry I think it was), but took the Geometry class anyway in the next year so that he'd score an A and top the curve without having to exert himself (and, I suppose, leaving him more time to devote to other subjects). So instead of spending the summer reading for interest, playing baseball, having a part time job and learning social skills by spending time with his peers in a normal, culturally typical American summer the Asian kid was preparing to juice his future college applications. I think this is a good part of why Asians underperform in elite institutions and in life generally - they're often academically finished products who present themselves as applicants in a system which is supposed to select for academic aptitude and predict future academic performance at higher levels. There's a limit to where grinding can get you as you proceed to higher and higher levels of academic challenge - at a certain point where your competition is rarefied and the material is more complex you'll be exposed.
To me it should be something we think about in terms of whether we want normal American kids competing for dwindling opportunities against these victims of childhood psychological abuse whose chief stratagem is foregoing all other dimensions of human development beyond rote memorization of academic topics achieved by mindless repetition.
“, I refer to things like a story recounted by a commenter here that an Asian kid in his kid’s peer group recently spent a summer learning the next year’s mathematics subject (Geometry I think it was), but took the Geometry class anyway in the next year so that he’d score an A and top the curve without having to exert himself (and, I suppose, leaving him more time to devote to other subjects). ”
It was probably me, and it wasn’t one Asian in a peer group, but an entire test prep industry here in America that offers summer courses in math classes for kids to take before they take it in school. I was assigned one when I worked test prep. I assumed it was for kids who had failed geometry and were taking it again and their parents wanted them to do well. Silly me.
This presupposes that the Chinese don't find the act of cheating to be a morally dubious proposition - so, they're going to do it unless and until they get caught. Westerners and Western Institutions are so far in the grip of cultural auto-masochism that the kinds of controls which would catch the Chinese in the act (and institute shaming, and thereby deter others) are out of the question, particularly so if the Chinese would play the "discrimination" gambit. So the Chinese will cheat and succeed by cheating in perpetuity.
I suppose this raises the question of the prevalence of cheating in Chinese communities in the West, and the extent that cheating remains a means to an end which Chinese are comfortable engaging in and for how many generations after arrival in a Western nation.
On the whole I'm not sanguine about Asian immigration into the United States, where normal and bright American kids are going to be outclassed by a combination of shame-based motivation of Asian kids (psychological abuse), cram-schooling and "hacking" the curricula, together with outright cheating.
When I refer to "hacking" the curricula, I refer to things like a story recounted by a commenter here that an Asian kid in his kid's peer group recently spent a summer learning the next year's mathematics subject (Geometry I think it was), but took the Geometry class anyway in the next year so that he'd score an A and top the curve without having to exert himself (and, I suppose, leaving him more time to devote to other subjects). So instead of spending the summer reading for interest, playing baseball, having a part time job and learning social skills by spending time with his peers in a normal, culturally typical American summer the Asian kid was preparing to juice his future college applications. I think this is a good part of why Asians underperform in elite institutions and in life generally - they're often academically finished products who present themselves as applicants in a system which is supposed to select for academic aptitude and predict future academic performance at higher levels. There's a limit to where grinding can get you as you proceed to higher and higher levels of academic challenge - at a certain point where your competition is rarefied and the material is more complex you'll be exposed.
To me it should be something we think about in terms of whether we want normal American kids competing for dwindling opportunities against these victims of childhood psychological abuse whose chief stratagem is foregoing all other dimensions of human development beyond rote memorization of academic topics achieved by mindless repetition.
“, I refer to things like a story recounted by a commenter here that an Asian kid in his kid’s peer group recently spent a summer learning the next year’s mathematics subject (Geometry I think it was), but took the Geometry class anyway in the next year so that he’d score an A and top the curve without having to exert himself (and, I suppose, leaving him more time to devote to other subjects). ”
It was probably me, and it wasn’t one Asian in a peer group, but an entire test prep industry here in America that offers summer courses in math classes for kids to take before they take it in school. I was assigned one when I worked test prep. I assumed it was for kids who had failed geometry and were taking it again and their parents wanted them to do well. Silly me.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon
Correct.
Each side has its own version of history, but clearly “the Huns” got ripped off at Trianon. Romanians have been brainwashed ever since that Eastern Hungary was always a Romanian place, and that it was “liberated.”
It was stolen by foreigners at a table in France and handed over to the “Dacians,” who did nothing to earn it. The purpose was to break up and weaken the Austro-Hungarian empire. What better way than to give some of it to Romanians, who couldn’t possibly organize themselves into a threat against anybody.
I am normally polite about my wife’s old country, but Mr. Dacian has got my hackles up. Fortunately they all live peacefully together over there, where I find myself almost once a year. In my current bad mood I will now just say that the trip is a chore, and the country is dirty and depressing. We go because we have family and a place there.
We get there through Hungary. The contrast between the two countries is like a less-pronounced version of the difference between the United States and Mexico.
As for Dacian’s question about what graduates of my wife’s alma mater have accomplished, the handsome man in the front of the photo is one Hermann Oberth. He was a Transylvanian Saxon (i.e. German) neither Hungarian nor Romanian.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170225143550/https://biculturalism.ucr.edu/pdfs/Schmitt%20et%20al_JCCP2007.pdf
Countries rather than races, but probably gives some clues.
Oddly though, your examples don't really show up (see Figures 1 and 2). In fact, the paper says:I wonder what is going on there.
My impression is that cross-national personality quizzes have problems with:
A. Translation
B. Different customs about how to answer
C. Regional comparisons: e.g., Danes compare themselves to Swedes and say We’re Not Like Them rather than say actually we’re quite a bit like Swedes compared to Italians much less Congolese.
I expect personality to vary clinally, but instead the studies seem to show it changes sharply at local national borders, which sounds like methodology problems to me.
Fair enough on the anonymous/internet thing. I don’t think the American part is what it used to be, but yeah, it’s all about that piece of paper for them (moreso than for Americans, IMO). The Chinese are big on education, but I think they put too much stock in degrees and other paperwork vs. actual real capability, just as they still have this faith in Government, no matter how idiotic governments become.
Surely, you mean “Hungarians were well represented”. If you exclude the Austrians living in that colony until 1918, and the Jews, who also came with the Austrian Empire, but were cleansed in the forties, you are left with what? One out of 8 “Hungarian Nobels” was an actual Hungarian. After the people born and schooled under the Austrians died, Hungary reached Bulgaria’s level. How many Fields did they get?
Yes, Romania and Hungary have many awards in children’s competitions, mainly because these started as reginal competitions. First two editions were organized by Romania (1959, 60), and the third by Hungary (61). Shit got hard once US (second in overall historical rankings) joined in 1974, and impossible when China joined in 1992. China currently tops the historical table, despite participating in half of the editions Hungary participated. Another example of Chinese doing whatever it takes, which the geniuses here can always re-interpret as cheating.
Well, I just said about Babes Bolyai that is crap, and that is Romanian. It wasn’t a critique of the Hun, but of the “proud Hun” mentality. Even in Transylvania, there’s more R&D in Timisoara, but they are not bullshitting as much as people from Cluj Napoca.
The only problem is that US universities are top of the world in US World News, and UK universities are world’s top 2 in The Times of London. I wonder what Chinese tell themselves, and how long can you mistake self-admiration with evidence.
They all use a methodology that ultimately translates to which school has more money
Under this methodology a tiny liberal arts college that churns out racism, and gender research papers with extremely high tuition and a rich student body will rank higher than arts school churning out decent engineers like purdue, cornell, v tech etc...
Chinese schools may not rank high, but look at a scientific journal like nature and plenty of chinese institutions
China will never be able to match these rankings because the schools don't sell admission to the highest donator
Wellesley can churn out endless research papers about discrimination, and other libtards will cite them endlessly
This is the university ranking that matters, and china is growing every year
https://www.natureindex.com/annual-tables/2018/institution/all/physical-sciences
Clearly a world of difference between a test like the sat or toefl where the consequences of failing effect your entire life individually
And a iq test, where a individual failing or succeeding on purpose will have zero effect on the actual average since thousands of other people are also taking it and outliers normalized
The sat toefl has direct consequences and rewards targeted towards the individual
Isn’t “harmony” just a bullshit word that really means “always do exactly what Glorious Leader says”?
They are all about "the nail that stands up gets hammered down", while in the West, it's been "the squeaky wheel gets the grease.", very different attitudes, but we've all got our slogans.
Pretty much what you said, too, Peter. The Chinese seem to have always had too big a faith in government. It's why, no matter how well the study and cram for a US citizenship test and pass the hell of of it, 99% of them will NEVER even understand the point of the US Constitution.
(BTW, have you got another law for these people, the Chinese? You need to have more than one ... PeterIkes 1st law ... etc. ;-} )
Why, it’s as though it is best for Chinese students to attend Chinese universities, American students American universities, Turkish students Turkish universities….
If everyone benefits rom this principle, perhaps it could be applied to other aspects of life? One can only wonder…..
The Huawei P20s and P30s are also impressive.
Good man.
I forgot to mention another way the Mi Mix 2S design is superior to the S8+. This involves the positioning of the fingerprint sensor.
The 2S has its sensor on the back, 1/3 the distance from the top of the phone, equidistant from the sides. The sensor has a large circular detection area. This is great, ambidextrous design. The camera is isolated in one corner, so there is no chance to touch the lens by mistake.
The S8+ fingerprint sensor/camera design is a failure compared to the 2S. The sensor is in a similar location, but it is to one side of the camera lens. Very easy to mistakenly touch and smudge the lens. The sensor itself is a smallish rectangle with rounded corners. It generates read failures if you do not touch it dead center. One has to wonder if it was designed for right-handed people with small fingers.
I also scored in the 98th percentile of both the SAT and the GRE Verbal and can speak a few other European languages with little or no accent, even though I don't speak them well. But I can ape the native pronunciation. I expect speaking a tonal East Asian language would be a challenge, however, even though I have a highly developed sense of pitch. Going to China and being a student at a Chinese University would be unthinkable. So I have some respect for what Asians have to go through at US universities, even though English is much, much easier than Mandarin or any other EA language.
It varies between individuals (and not just based on intelligence – Kissinger is brilliant but he could never kick his accent). Also coming from a language that has a lot of similar sounds to English helps. Coming from Dutch or Danish is a lot easier than coming from Russian or Chinese.
* In the preface of the English translation of the Water Margin I read, there's apparently a Chinese aphorism regarding the two works: "The young shouldn't read The Water Margin while the old shouldn't read The Three Kingdoms". It's a reference to the two works being almost a call to arms against the incumbent regime of just about any era.
** In contrast, most traditional European tales of derring-do revolve around the adventures of aristocrats like Achilles or Arthur, but are, in any event, almost never about violent revolution mounted by the hoi polloi.
If you look at the crazy way they acted during the Cultural Revolution it’s hard to believe that it’s the same people. Then again you could say the same thing about the Germans.
China has a long history of peasant rebellions. One of the reasons that the current leadership keeps such a tight rein on things is that they know that as soon as you slack off the Chinese do crazy shit. They don’t have the same “God is watching you” concept that Westerners have so if they know that no one is looking they will do pretty much anything that they are confident that can get away with. Having cameras everywhere is perfect for such a culture because now there is a man made “God” who IS watching you.
Each side has its own version of history, but clearly "the Huns" got ripped off at Trianon. Romanians have been brainwashed ever since that Eastern Hungary was always a Romanian place, and that it was "liberated."
It was stolen by foreigners at a table in France and handed over to the "Dacians," who did nothing to earn it. The purpose was to break up and weaken the Austro-Hungarian empire. What better way than to give some of it to Romanians, who couldn't possibly organize themselves into a threat against anybody.
I am normally polite about my wife's old country, but Mr. Dacian has got my hackles up. Fortunately they all live peacefully together over there, where I find myself almost once a year. In my current bad mood I will now just say that the trip is a chore, and the country is dirty and depressing. We go because we have family and a place there.
We get there through Hungary. The contrast between the two countries is like a less-pronounced version of the difference between the United States and Mexico.
As for Dacian's question about what graduates of my wife's alma mater have accomplished, the handsome man in the front of the photo is one Hermann Oberth. He was a Transylvanian Saxon (i.e. German) neither Hungarian nor Romanian.
http://nationalufocenter.com/artman/uploads/germanhermanoberth.jpg
Having a history of Protestant rule is better than having a history of Catholic rule. Having a history of Catholic rule is better than having a history of Orthodox rule. Having a history of Orthodox rule is better than having a history of Muslim rule.
It was probably me, and it wasn't one Asian in a peer group, but an entire test prep industry here in America that offers summer courses in math classes for kids to take before they take it in school. I was assigned one when I worked test prep. I assumed it was for kids who had failed geometry and were taking it again and their parents wanted them to do well. Silly me.
Only an American could think that working really hard and being prepared for a class in advance is “cheating”. Everyone knows that all of your time outside of school should be devoted to playing mindless video games and Marvel Comics movies and never to self improvement. Is it cheating if you read one chapter ahead in the text book?
It's just not normal to be obsessed with test scores and math homework at that age. Yes, you can be a blooming science nerd and spend time with Dad's tools and computers, but pre-taking Geometry during the summer is insane. Summer is the time to explore or work or fall in love.
....wanders off to stare at freshly watered flowers glistening in the sun...
Yes, funding has been cut. It sure doesn't help for a state legislator to walk through campus and feel he's not in his same country anymore, much less his same state. The point of the state government funding these place to begin with is to create learned men/women and talented people that can make THAT state a better place. With New Yorkers in town, who will do nothing but deride the city to their big-city friends once they leave, what is the point again?
But college COSTS have risen because the colleges LUV spending lots of money, and they can get as much as they want. Do you think the adjunct instructors that they use more and more to do all the grunt work teaching (the grading, etc) have gotten raises? No, they are making less in real dollars than ever.
What I said is that many State Us are under pressure to keep in-state tuition down, NOT to keep costs down.
As far as keeping costs down, you are correct that almost every college and university has wasted money. But there is some pressure to keep costs down. As you mentioned, much of the burden of cost cutting is put on adjunct faculty. I spent a few years as adjunct faculty in the 1990s. I was in poverty the entire time. I think the MOST money I made in a year in the mid 1990s was a little over $17k. That was NYC, where the wages were higher and the cost of living MUCH higher.
I was married with a young child, and my wife had a dead end job making about $25k. Between WIC, our combined earnings, her good health insurance and a beat up junker of a car we got as a wedding present, we barely made ends meet. Not a way to raise a family.
In any case, my point is that the way public universities are set up, they need a large number of students paying full out of state tuition to balance their budgets. The source can be rich New Yorkers or crazy rich Asians.
In the meantime, fewer in state students get to attend their State U, especially the flagship campus. That tends to decrease support for the State U amongst the voters I would guess
https://www.epsilontheory.com/starry-eyes-and-starry-skies/
Chris Sabo corked his bat.
The American Empire’s ruling class has used cheap labor provided by the Chinese Communist Party to destroy manufacturing in the USA and to lower wages for US workers and to ship manufacturing plants from the USA to China.
The American Empire’s ruling class has used mass legal immigration and illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy the European Christian ancestral core of the USA.
It’s funny when Sabo gets caught corking his bat.
It’s not funny when the treasonous rats in the American Empire’s ruling class use free trade and mass immigration to attack middle class Americans and working class Americans.
China has a long history of peasant rebellions. One of the reasons that the current leadership keeps such a tight rein on things is that they know that as soon as you slack off the Chinese do crazy shit. They don't have the same "God is watching you" concept that Westerners have so if they know that no one is looking they will do pretty much anything that they are confident that can get away with. Having cameras everywhere is perfect for such a culture because now there is a man made "God" who IS watching you.
LOL.
So you actually get the Hobbesian nature of China. Yep. You can not understand China without understanding our frequent mass depopulation events that often wiped out 50%+ of the people every 200-300 years.
I don't blame the occasional foreign student who does know English proficiently, but, unless he came over here at 10 years old, the accent will remain. None of them should be put into teaching positions, PERIOD, but that'd be discriminatory and racist, right?
.
* I only separate them from Grad Students on the learning side, just due to the fact that the engineering/science grad schools are almost completely foreign anyway, so everyone has to communicate equally poorly.
There are accents and accents. Subcontinentals with an “elocution” accent used to be quite common, especially among the upper classes. A fair number of East Asians also learned to speak understandable English. If you don’t encourage the arduous task of learning to speak English in a way understandable to natives, it won’t happen, but if you do, it will.
Anyway, yes, the educated dot-Indians have been speaking English their whole lives. That, of course, goes against my point, but it's really just that their accent is nothing as bad as the Oriental ones. That doesn't imply any poor learning on the part of the Orientals. Its' just that English is so very different from Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese - I mean, until you know a bit, you don't even know where the syllables start and end (especially for Chinese), so can you imagine the reverse for them? OTOH, if you look at Indian names, they may have too many syllables for our tastes, but all the consonants and vowels that we are used to are there.
To me, that's the difference. The dot-Indians that don't try hard can be just as hard to understand, but the many well educated ones that try are very understandable. Some Chinaman with a PhD in physics may have learned English very well, but if he did that at 30 y/o, he's still going to likely have an accent that requires extreme attention and/or familiarity with the guy to understand.
When you’re 14? Do you remember being 14?
It’s just not normal to be obsessed with test scores and math homework at that age. Yes, you can be a blooming science nerd and spend time with Dad’s tools and computers, but pre-taking Geometry during the summer is insane. Summer is the time to explore or work or fall in love.
….wanders off to stare at freshly watered flowers glistening in the sun…
As we all know, university tuition has gone up exponentially in recent decades, far beyond inflation. Where has the money gone, if undergrad courses are now (and they are) being taught by $17k/yr adjunct faculty instead of full professors making a living wage? The main answer is in administrative staff. Universities now have tremendous bureaucracies that didn’t exist in the past – diversity coordinators and Title IX coordinators and blah, blah, blah. These are all full time employees and get paid really nice salaries with benefits, no $17k/yr for them.
There was no money for you but PLENTY of money for the system’s pets:
Denice Denton was the lesbian chancellor of the University of California, Santa Cruz. Denton’s recruitment package (these #’s are in 2006 $) included a $275,000 salary, $68,750 as a moving allowance, improvements to the chancellor’s on-campus residence which included a $30,000 dog pen initially budgeted at $7,000. Included in the deal was a tenured professorial appointment with a $192,000 salary for a phony make work job (director of international strategy development) and a housing assistance allowance of up to $50,000 for her partner, Gretchen Kalonji.
In other words, Denice’s dog lived better than you. For the Eloi and their pets, nothing is too good for them. For the Morlocks like you, you can have the table scraps that the Eloi’s dog doesn’t eat.
Unfortunately, there was no happy ending for Denice. On June 24, 2006, one day following Denton’s discharge from the Langley Porter Psychiatric Institute where she had been treated for depression, she leapt 33 stories to her death from The Paramount, a high-rise in San Francisco in which she shared an apartment with Kalonji. Gretchen sued her estate claiming that Denton really meant to leave her everything but forgot to update her will. She settled for the apartment, worth around $750k at that time.
There was no money for you but PLENTY of money for the system's pets:
Denice Denton was the lesbian chancellor of the University of California, Santa Cruz. Denton's recruitment package (these #'s are in 2006 $) included a $275,000 salary, $68,750 as a moving allowance, improvements to the chancellor's on-campus residence which included a $30,000 dog pen initially budgeted at $7,000. Included in the deal was a tenured professorial appointment with a $192,000 salary for a phony make work job (director of international strategy development) and a housing assistance allowance of up to $50,000 for her partner, Gretchen Kalonji.
In other words, Denice's dog lived better than you. For the Eloi and their pets, nothing is too good for them. For the Morlocks like you, you can have the table scraps that the Eloi's dog doesn't eat.
Unfortunately, there was no happy ending for Denice. On June 24, 2006, one day following Denton's discharge from the Langley Porter Psychiatric Institute where she had been treated for depression, she leapt 33 stories to her death from The Paramount, a high-rise in San Francisco in which she shared an apartment with Kalonji. Gretchen sued her estate claiming that Denton really meant to leave her everything but forgot to update her will. She settled for the apartment, worth around $750k at that time.
Denton, BTW, was famous for confronting Harvard President Lawrence Summers after he insinuated in a talk that women might be less science-prone for genetic reasons. Denton was in the room when Summers made the controversial comment. Genetics and hormones had nothing to do with it. Denton BTW was an extremely butch lesbian built like a linebacker or a man in a fright wig:
This is like when they praise some “black” mathematical genius (the “Hidden Figures” lady) and you see their photo and they are really 7/8 white. These people have zero self-awareness. None.
I never saw rampant cheating from the Jews who were not Russians.
As for the Russians who cheated, I don’t know their religious persuasions.
As for the Chinese students I knew who cheated, not one was Jewish.
The determine factor seemed to be coming from a country that was a low-trust society with a high level of corruption.
You’re lying. You know damn well the vast majority of “Russian” immigrants in NYC during the 80’s were Jewish. You know damn well that the students cheating were Jews.
My Hispanic and black students who cheated were probably mostly Christians.
Asian students who cheated were probably mostly atheist, some Buddhist or Christian. Among the Asians the PRC students were worse than Japanese or Koreans, although there was a notorious case of a former student of mine from Korea being convicted of Medicaid fraud. He can no longer practice medicine.
At the time the percentage of Russians in NY was heavily Jewish, but I don’t know the religion of these students. The probability is high most were Jewish, but that is not known for sure.
All I know is that there was a very strong correlation between nationality and cheating, but not between religion and cheating.
Omission of the students’ religion is simply because it was an unknown, unmeasured and probably irrelevant factor. Unless one wants to blame The (((Tribe))) for all of the world’s woes. That would give the (((Tribe))) far more power than any group of people could possibly have.
Were not blaming the tribe for all the world’s woes, that’s a ridiculous straw man. We are asking you to tell truth about what ethnicity people are. Don’t label people who are members of one ethnic group as being members of another when they do something bad. That’s slander.
You need to apologize to Russian people for falsely accusing them of something Jews did. This blog has been very concerned for a long time with this sort of shifting blame from various non-European ethnic groups to European ethnic groups.
What you are doing is exactly the same as what the media does when they call Gypsies who commit crime in the UK “Romanians” or describe an Arab Islamic terrorist as a “Swedish man.”
All ethnic groups have criminals (some more than others) but each ethnic group has a criminal style that matches their intelligence and personality. So Russian Jews go for financial fraud and Russian Russians go for murder-for-hire.
During high school vacation, anything except baseball and boofing is cheating! A tolerated activity is to “relate with your peers”, such as the Renate alumni. How else would you get to the highest rate of divorce in the world?
Each side has its own version of history, but clearly "the Huns" got ripped off at Trianon. Romanians have been brainwashed ever since that Eastern Hungary was always a Romanian place, and that it was "liberated."
It was stolen by foreigners at a table in France and handed over to the "Dacians," who did nothing to earn it. The purpose was to break up and weaken the Austro-Hungarian empire. What better way than to give some of it to Romanians, who couldn't possibly organize themselves into a threat against anybody.
I am normally polite about my wife's old country, but Mr. Dacian has got my hackles up. Fortunately they all live peacefully together over there, where I find myself almost once a year. In my current bad mood I will now just say that the trip is a chore, and the country is dirty and depressing. We go because we have family and a place there.
We get there through Hungary. The contrast between the two countries is like a less-pronounced version of the difference between the United States and Mexico.
As for Dacian's question about what graduates of my wife's alma mater have accomplished, the handsome man in the front of the photo is one Hermann Oberth. He was a Transylvanian Saxon (i.e. German) neither Hungarian nor Romanian.
http://nationalufocenter.com/artman/uploads/germanhermanoberth.jpg
Is your wife launching rockets, as well? I guess at night, you watching TV, and all of sudden, ignition! No countdown, no takeoff, just exhaust gases. Typical Babes Bolyai.
When I was in China about 10 yrs. ago when things were a little more loosey-goosey than they are now under Xi, I visited an upscale shopping mall and there was an ad poster for some Euro fashion brand and the caption on the poster (in English) was “Harmony is Overrated”. I couldn’t believe that they got away with it. Maybe they convinced the censor that “overrated” mean “highly rated”?
It's just not normal to be obsessed with test scores and math homework at that age. Yes, you can be a blooming science nerd and spend time with Dad's tools and computers, but pre-taking Geometry during the summer is insane. Summer is the time to explore or work or fall in love.
....wanders off to stare at freshly watered flowers glistening in the sun...
That’s really just a cultural difference.
There is a lot of cheating in China but that doesn’t count as cheating no matter how much you don’t like it.
Too far man!
You need to apologize to Russian people for falsely accusing them of something Jews did. This blog has been very concerned for a long time with this sort of shifting blame from various non-European ethnic groups to European ethnic groups.
What you are doing is exactly the same as what the media does when they call Gypsies who commit crime in the UK "Romanians" or describe an Arab Islamic terrorist as a "Swedish man."
Fair enough. So when people claim that “Hungarians” won X number of Nobel Prizes, you have to do the same – give credit where credit is due and blame where blame is due.
All ethnic groups have criminals (some more than others) but each ethnic group has a criminal style that matches their intelligence and personality. So Russian Jews go for financial fraud and Russian Russians go for murder-for-hire.
If you’re going to trans M->F might as well get it out of the way in the womb. Easier all around really.
There was no money for you but PLENTY of money for the system's pets:
Denice Denton was the lesbian chancellor of the University of California, Santa Cruz. Denton's recruitment package (these #'s are in 2006 $) included a $275,000 salary, $68,750 as a moving allowance, improvements to the chancellor's on-campus residence which included a $30,000 dog pen initially budgeted at $7,000. Included in the deal was a tenured professorial appointment with a $192,000 salary for a phony make work job (director of international strategy development) and a housing assistance allowance of up to $50,000 for her partner, Gretchen Kalonji.
In other words, Denice's dog lived better than you. For the Eloi and their pets, nothing is too good for them. For the Morlocks like you, you can have the table scraps that the Eloi's dog doesn't eat.
Unfortunately, there was no happy ending for Denice. On June 24, 2006, one day following Denton's discharge from the Langley Porter Psychiatric Institute where she had been treated for depression, she leapt 33 stories to her death from The Paramount, a high-rise in San Francisco in which she shared an apartment with Kalonji. Gretchen sued her estate claiming that Denton really meant to leave her everything but forgot to update her will. She settled for the apartment, worth around $750k at that time.
At least she didn’t adopt six kids first, so she’s got that to commend her.
Most probably the “censor” had barely any grasp of English and figured nobody would care anyway. Have you seen the “English” on Chinese t-shirts?
Hahaha, the guy had no idea what it said, and dang if there were too many people around for me to circle back and snap a picture. I think it was the Australians behind this one, as they love that sort of thing.
As far as keeping costs down, you are correct that almost every college and university has wasted money. But there is some pressure to keep costs down. As you mentioned, much of the burden of cost cutting is put on adjunct faculty. I spent a few years as adjunct faculty in the 1990s. I was in poverty the entire time. I think the MOST money I made in a year in the mid 1990s was a little over $17k. That was NYC, where the wages were higher and the cost of living MUCH higher.
I was married with a young child, and my wife had a dead end job making about $25k. Between WIC, our combined earnings, her good health insurance and a beat up junker of a car we got as a wedding present, we barely made ends meet. Not a way to raise a family.
In any case, my point is that the way public universities are set up, they need a large number of students paying full out of state tuition to balance their budgets. The source can be rich New Yorkers or crazy rich Asians.
In the meantime, fewer in state students get to attend their State U, especially the flagship campus. That tends to decrease support for the State U amongst the voters I would guess
If you buried your head any further in the sand you could see China up close and personal.
https://www.epsilontheory.com/starry-eyes-and-starry-skies/
I forgot to mention another way the Mi Mix 2S design is superior to the S8+. This involves the positioning of the fingerprint sensor.
The 2S has its sensor on the back, 1/3 the distance from the top of the phone, equidistant from the sides. The sensor has a large circular detection area. This is great, ambidextrous design. The camera is isolated in one corner, so there is no chance to touch the lens by mistake.
The S8+ fingerprint sensor/camera design is a failure compared to the 2S. The sensor is in a similar location, but it is to one side of the camera lens. Very easy to mistakenly touch and smudge the lens. The sensor itself is a smallish rectangle with rounded corners. It generates read failures if you do not touch it dead center. One has to wonder if it was designed for right-handed people with small fingers.
Nokia 7.1 is very nice. No Chinese spyware. Bone stock Android Pie with no bloatware and they push the latest updates every month. The carrier cellphones especially rarely get updated unless you are willing to hack them.
China has a long history of peasant rebellions. One of the reasons that the current leadership keeps such a tight rein on things is that they know that as soon as you slack off the Chinese do crazy shit. They don't have the same "God is watching you" concept that Westerners have so if they know that no one is looking they will do pretty much anything that they are confident that can get away with. Having cameras everywhere is perfect for such a culture because now there is a man made "God" who IS watching you.
The ones who matter are very cognizant of their ancestors watching over them. You don’t rise to the heights the Han have without some such mechanism.
University rankings are based on endowment, papers published, standardized test scores, student teacher ratio etc…
They all use a methodology that ultimately translates to which school has more money
Under this methodology a tiny liberal arts college that churns out racism, and gender research papers with extremely high tuition and a rich student body will rank higher than arts school churning out decent engineers like purdue, cornell, v tech etc…
Chinese schools may not rank high, but look at a scientific journal like nature and plenty of chinese institutions
China will never be able to match these rankings because the schools don’t sell admission to the highest donator
Wellesley can churn out endless research papers about discrimination, and other libtards will cite them endlessly
This is the university ranking that matters, and china is growing every year
https://www.natureindex.com/annual-tables/2018/institution/all/physical-sciences
That’s a good rule of thumb.
AGREED, #192, and that’s why I keep harping on the whole “Asian” means squat-all thing, because Asia is a big damn continent. (I hate the term “subcontinentals” too, BTW, as there are plenty of subcontinents – Asia Minor, the Yucatan, Alaska, the Iberian peninsula, you name it. How ’bout dot-Indians?)
Anyway, yes, the educated dot-Indians have been speaking English their whole lives. That, of course, goes against my point, but it’s really just that their accent is nothing as bad as the Oriental ones. That doesn’t imply any poor learning on the part of the Orientals. Its’ just that English is so very different from Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese – I mean, until you know a bit, you don’t even know where the syllables start and end (especially for Chinese), so can you imagine the reverse for them? OTOH, if you look at Indian names, they may have too many syllables for our tastes, but all the consonants and vowels that we are used to are there.
To me, that’s the difference. The dot-Indians that don’t try hard can be just as hard to understand, but the many well educated ones that try are very understandable. Some Chinaman with a PhD in physics may have learned English very well, but if he did that at 30 y/o, he’s still going to likely have an accent that requires extreme attention and/or familiarity with the guy to understand.
The reason I don't say any kind of "Indians" when I mean the ex-Raj plus Ceylon is that I
knowhave heard of some Ceylon Tamils who fought a guerilla war to keep the Indian Army out, though the Indians were supposed to be there to "help" them. The Ceylonese non-Tamils weren't too keen on India either.People from Hispania are peninsulares. They should be Hispanics, but that gets confusing. Call them Spaniards and the Portuguese will not like it.
“It’s a man, baby!”
A Wang in the hand is worth two Wongs in the bush, as the old saying goes.
Yeah, harmony is one of those things the Chinese have striven for since Confucius, and it’s worked pretty well for them, except for those times, as someone above wrote, when a few dozen million were killed in wars we in the West have never even heard about.
They are all about “the nail that stands up gets hammered down”, while in the West, it’s been “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.”, very different attitudes, but we’ve all got our slogans.
Pretty much what you said, too, Peter. The Chinese seem to have always had too big a faith in government. It’s why, no matter how well the study and cram for a US citizenship test and pass the hell of of it, 99% of them will NEVER even understand the point of the US Constitution.
(BTW, have you got another law for these people, the Chinese? You need to have more than one … PeterIkes 1st law … etc. ;-} )
Oh, man, tell me about it! I’ve got to put a link in now, to Peak Stupidity’s post Little Joke in Big China …. To keep it short for those not clicking, the middle-aged Chinaman’s shirt said. “What I really need right now is a beer, some coke, and a fucking blow job!”
Hahaha, the guy had no idea what it said, and dang if there were too many people around for me to circle back and snap a picture. I think it was the Australians behind this one, as they love that sort of thing.
There was no money for you but PLENTY of money for the system's pets:
Denice Denton was the lesbian chancellor of the University of California, Santa Cruz. Denton's recruitment package (these #'s are in 2006 $) included a $275,000 salary, $68,750 as a moving allowance, improvements to the chancellor's on-campus residence which included a $30,000 dog pen initially budgeted at $7,000. Included in the deal was a tenured professorial appointment with a $192,000 salary for a phony make work job (director of international strategy development) and a housing assistance allowance of up to $50,000 for her partner, Gretchen Kalonji.
In other words, Denice's dog lived better than you. For the Eloi and their pets, nothing is too good for them. For the Morlocks like you, you can have the table scraps that the Eloi's dog doesn't eat.
Unfortunately, there was no happy ending for Denice. On June 24, 2006, one day following Denton's discharge from the Langley Porter Psychiatric Institute where she had been treated for depression, she leapt 33 stories to her death from The Paramount, a high-rise in San Francisco in which she shared an apartment with Kalonji. Gretchen sued her estate claiming that Denton really meant to leave her everything but forgot to update her will. She settled for the apartment, worth around $750k at that time.
I wonder what the ratio is between lesbianism and depression. I’m willing to bet it’s pretty close to 1.
A study that lumps Chinese in with Confucianists is like a study that lumps mainline mainland BJP Indians in with Buddhists.
Japanese?
Confucius originating in China but being taken more seriously abroad is like Buddhism originating in India but being subsumed there. In the comment I responded to, the report claimed it was talking about Chinese, Japanese, and Korean tropes, but the ones listed looked solidly Chinese. This will probably be an increasingly common tendency going forward. We focus on one regional power and assume it will do for others. When we were concerned with Japan more than any other Asian nation, we frequently assumed that China worked like them.
Friend, you are looking through the wrong end of the telescope, as it were: actually, Craftsman tools have largely gone to shit. The biggest tell of course is that the lifetime warranties are gone. The sage no longer purchase them. Nowadays you must make bothersome efforts to get hold of Bosch, SK, or Snap-On tools. One must be careful even of Bosch; like BMW, they now manufacture some of their stuff in China, and it is, of course, not up to the standards of the German products.
The Chinese ruin everything: manufacturing and academia, as alluded to here, food and drugs (via adulteration), and even entertainment (all movies are now mindless cartoon repeats of Shit Blows Up! …Again).
The Chinese educational system really lives up to its image of being totally corrupt in every facet not just the standard kids cheating on tests.
Administrators sell answers to tests.
You can buy test result rankings
Parents have to give a debit card to teachers with 2500 yuan on it to be refilled when the teacher runs out. If the parent doesn’t pay, they receive threatening phone calls about what a bad child they have.
Teachers of the big three test subjects (English, Chinese and math) will under prepare students for tests them inform them that they are available for private tutoring at a high fee.
I met k12 foreign teachers who couldn’t help notice as they were walking from the bus stop to the school building, they would see their Chinese counterparts arrive in their luxury cars.
Not only does China have an end justifies the means culture when it comes to anything important, a family can lose face if they don’t cheat when the opportunity presents itself
This is pure speculation but I’d say that any putative death of Confucianism in China is about as credible as the death of Christianity in America. More hat than cattle.
Not sure what you’re on about, this is an agreed-upon scholarly consensus yielding widely used terms. The terms are the thing that seems to have muddied my tires as what we really want here is a simple way to distinguish between East Asians and the Han. Korea is the most Confucian country on Earth and Japan is a close second. China isn’t a Confucian country. It’s not in the same ball park. It has been grudgingly influenced by Confucius, freely rejecting whatever it found inconvenient, whereas the smaller neighbors were born in Confucianism and molded by it.
The Chinese ruin everything: manufacturing and academia, as alluded to here, food and drugs (via adulteration), and even entertainment (all movies are now mindless cartoon repeats of Shit Blows Up! ...Again).
When I was a carpenter, nobody I worked with would touch Bosch. I think Home Depot’s orange house brand does have a warranty and has a pretty good reputation.
I doubt this one was made in China, though.
Smells like PE wss your most traumatic class, what with always being picked last and all and not being able to do one pull up.
A secondary language is not a necessity for a native english speaker, given the uquity of english as a second language. I wish i had taken 6 years of latin rather than a live euro language that enables me to speak with the landscapers working next door rather than read caesar in the original latin.
One must wonder when you were a carpenter and whether your colleagues were cheap, lazy, or both. Bosch’s tools from Germany are fantastic. Nowadays, one must be chary: the ostensibly same model of tool is sometimes made both in Germany and China, much as, say, this or that automobile may come off assembly-lines in both Mexico and Korea. In those cases the tools of Chinese make are usually more ubiquitous, but careful attention and a bit of searching can still find a German tool, and these are still great.
Go poke around Consumer Reports‘ empirical data.
Generally speaking, products from Bosch, Stihl, Hilti, and Festool are superior to the Chinese shit: Stanley, Black, & Decker (a.k.a. Craftsman, a.k.a. Porter-Cable, a.k.a. DeWalt); Techtronic Industries (a.k.a. Milwaukee, a.k.a. Ridgid, a.k.a. Ryobi); Chervon (a.k.a. Skil, a.k.a. Devon; a.k.a. Flex, a.k.a., X-Tron); and Worx – Japanese stuff like Hitachi, Makita, and Panasonic are of intermediate quality. One must be careful, though. However, as mentioned above about Bosch, this industry has become like the automobile industry: the same mega-corporation often pretends to be a dozen entities and a lot of the ostensible competitors are in cahoots, making each other’s shit and rebadging it with convoluted deals for regional licenses and manufacturing, and even the same truly integrated company still has dramatically different products because its plants in India are not the same as the ones in the U.S.A., and so on.
A lot of people don’t realise a Porsche is a Volkswagen…but not really. Speaking of brands and completed machines no longer holds much meaning; one must pay attention to component parts and where and how they were made. The annoying thing is that, while I can put “Porsche” axle-stubs into my “Volkswagen” vehicle because I want a decent suspension, it’s not (yet?) feasible for me to do that level of ticking around with power-tools….
Oh, absolutely, and Chinese manufacturing-under-close-Western-supervision-and-unforgiving-quality-control is worth buying.
The West has a guilt culture. Asia has a shame culture.
Getting caught is a problem, cheating not at all. Believe me, the Chinese lose no sleep over it.
Super low trust environment.
“A man’s word is his bond” is not spoken here.
It’s like the racetrack. The thing is, when everyone understands the rules, it’s fine. But it’s not fine with here, with so many stupid, sanctimonious and unsophisticated citizens.
Good, they will be more useful working for a living.
Is that you, Michael Mann?
Anyway, yes, the educated dot-Indians have been speaking English their whole lives. That, of course, goes against my point, but it's really just that their accent is nothing as bad as the Oriental ones. That doesn't imply any poor learning on the part of the Orientals. Its' just that English is so very different from Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese - I mean, until you know a bit, you don't even know where the syllables start and end (especially for Chinese), so can you imagine the reverse for them? OTOH, if you look at Indian names, they may have too many syllables for our tastes, but all the consonants and vowels that we are used to are there.
To me, that's the difference. The dot-Indians that don't try hard can be just as hard to understand, but the many well educated ones that try are very understandable. Some Chinaman with a PhD in physics may have learned English very well, but if he did that at 30 y/o, he's still going to likely have an accent that requires extreme attention and/or familiarity with the guy to understand.
I agree with pretty much everything you say here
The reason I don’t say any kind of “Indians” when I mean the ex-Raj plus Ceylon is that I
knowhave heard of some Ceylon Tamils who fought a guerilla war to keep the Indian Army out, though the Indians were supposed to be there to “help” them. The Ceylonese non-Tamils weren’t too keen on India either.People from Hispania are peninsulares. They should be Hispanics, but that gets confusing. Call them Spaniards and the Portuguese will not like it.
Mr. Ross, I have a Bosch cordless drill/driver from 2001. It has been dropped from 12ft. (onto dirt and leaves, but still!) and it kept working. I’m on my 3rd pair of batteries. When I thought the thing had gone tits-up (it was just the metal conductor to the battery), I took the whole thing apart, looking at the 3 sets of planetary gears and figuring I’d never be able to put it back together. It went together, and then the thing ran, once I got it power!
I doubt this one was made in China, though.
Right. I was taken aback at first too because I only knew Bosch from top quality automotive stuff and assumed everyone would like them.
Dr. Mann is out of the office, playing Hookey, errr, Hockey! with a real Hockey stick.
Go poke around Consumer Reports' empirical data.
Generally speaking, products from Bosch, Stihl, Hilti, and Festool are superior to the Chinese shit: Stanley, Black, & Decker (a.k.a. Craftsman, a.k.a. Porter-Cable, a.k.a. DeWalt); Techtronic Industries (a.k.a. Milwaukee, a.k.a. Ridgid, a.k.a. Ryobi); Chervon (a.k.a. Skil, a.k.a. Devon; a.k.a. Flex, a.k.a., X-Tron); and Worx – Japanese stuff like Hitachi, Makita, and Panasonic are of intermediate quality. One must be careful, though. However, as mentioned above about Bosch, this industry has become like the automobile industry: the same mega-corporation often pretends to be a dozen entities and a lot of the ostensible competitors are in cahoots, making each other's shit and rebadging it with convoluted deals for regional licenses and manufacturing, and even the same truly integrated company still has dramatically different products because its plants in India are not the same as the ones in the U.S.A., and so on.
A lot of people don't realise a Porsche is a Volkswagen...but not really. Speaking of brands and completed machines no longer holds much meaning; one must pay attention to component parts and where and how they were made. The annoying thing is that, while I can put "Porsche" axle-stubs into my "Volkswagen" vehicle because I want a decent suspension, it's not (yet?) feasible for me to do that level of ticking around with power-tools....
Bosch’s-tools-from-Germany are fantastic.
Oh, absolutely, and Chinese manufacturing-under-close-Western-supervision-and-unforgiving-quality-control is worth buying.
I doubt this one was made in China, though.
I doubt this one was made in China, though.
Right. I was taken aback at first too because I only knew Bosch from top quality automotive stuff and assumed everyone would like them.
Lots of Bosch stuff is (or at least was) made in the US too - I think fuel injectors are one example.
I agree completely on your comment about the " manufacturing-under-close-Western-supervision-and-unforgiving-quality-control". I could tell you stories about Chinese Q/A, and they happen to have involved German-brand products too - hint: when coming for a visit, go randomly right through the pile to the hard-to-get-at-stuff and inspect it first!
See Peak Stupidity on "China, Inc., where quality is job 4" - see, they even steal the American (Ford) slogans!
Now do the 99% of the world who aren’t scholars.
Right. I was taken aback at first too because I only knew Bosch from top quality automotive stuff and assumed everyone would like them.
Yeah, and I bought a used Ryobi table saw for probably the price of a new China-made POS, specifically because it said “Made in USA” on it – from 1994. (Yeah, I do know that not all American goods were quality made, such as cars through the early 1980’s.)
Lots of Bosch stuff is (or at least was) made in the US too – I think fuel injectors are one example.
I agree completely on your comment about the ” manufacturing-under-close-Western-supervision-and-unforgiving-quality-control”. I could tell you stories about Chinese Q/A, and they happen to have involved German-brand products too – hint: when coming for a visit, go randomly right through the pile to the hard-to-get-at-stuff and inspect it first!
See Peak Stupidity on “China, Inc., where quality is job 4” – see, they even steal the American (Ford) slogans!