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A New York Times obituary seems to be intended as a metaphor of current relevance to trends on American campuses that bear an unsettling resemblance to the Chinese Cultural Revolution:

Nie Yuanzi, Whose Poster Fanned the Cultural Revolution, Dies at 98

By Chris Buckley
Sept. 3, 2019

When Nie Yuanzi put up a vitriolic wall poster one day in 1966, she plunged into the political maelstrom of Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution. For the rest of her life, Ms. Nie wrestled with the fame, and the infamy, that her act of rebellion would bring.

As this obit goes on to point out, it wasn’t exactly an act of rebellion, but more of a Calling Out of Top Dog Mao Tse-tung’s enemy, the head of Peking U., for Cancelation.

The poster brazenly denounced the Communist Party secretary of Peking University, where Ms. Nie worked, as well as two other Beijing officials. After Mao praised the poster, Ms. Nie vaulted to the front of the militant Red Guard student movement, which Mao was stoking to attack his foes. …

Ms. Nie died on Wednesday at 98. Her son Yu Xiaodong said the cause was respiratory failure. …

The Chinese news media has remained silent about her death, a sign of how sensitive the traumas of the Cultural Revolution remain. …

Ms. Nie was not a typical Red Guard. When Mao began the Cultural Revolution in 1966, Ms. Nie was a midlevel Communist Party functionary at Peking University. At 45, she was more than two decades older than the high school and university students who formed the bulk of the Red Guards.

Ms. Nie was born on April 5, 1921, in rural Henan Province in central China, the youngest of seven children. Her father belonged to a long family line of well-off landowners and doctors, but many of his children embraced revolutionary politics. …

After the Communist Party came to power in 1949, Ms. Nie climbed the political apparatus in northeast China. Her big chance came in 1960, when she was transferred to prestigious Peking University.

… Despite her limited education, she was among the party loyalists sent to watch over the university, regarded as a seedbed of unorthodox ideas. In 1963 she was promoted to Communist Party secretary of the philosophy department, which was turning out teachers and theorists trained in Marxist-Maoist doctrine.

So it sounds like she was a professional Communist Party minder paid to oversee and snitch on professors.

When Mao called for a Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, Ms. Nie did not question his accusations that dangerous “revisionists” and “capitalist roaders” had infiltrated the party and were trying to derail his revolution.

“I thought that I had to obey Chairman Mao,” she wrote in her memoirs, “In the Vortex of the Cultural Revolution,” published in Hong Kong. “This was personally launched and led by Chairman Mao; of course I had to respond positively.”

Ms. Nie said that she and six other party activists associated with the philosophy department had come up with the idea of a big-character poster laying out their frustrations with the university leader, Lu Ping, but that they had had no plans to ignite a political firestorm.

Some historians, however, have said that Ms. Nie was no innocent — that she was indeed part of a scheme to undermine party leaders by lighting that fuse at Peking University.

“She was attuned to the political struggles in the high ranks,” said Ye Yonglie, a popular historian who was a student at Peking University from 1957 to 1963. …

A few days later, Kang Sheng, a powerful security official, reported to Mao about the poster. Mao immediately grasped it as kindling for his Cultural Revolution. He ordered that the poster be reprinted and circulated. He later praised it as the “first Marxist-Leninist big-character poster in the country.”

Ms. Nie leapt to political stardom.

A lot of Youth Rebellions turn out to be less spontaneous than they might seem, but instead are driven by 45-year-old bureaucrats responding to power struggles at the Top, with ambitious students then responding to which way the winds seem to be blowing among the grown-ups.

Our colleges these days employ enormous numbers of 45-year-old bureaucrats, for example in the ever-growing Diversity departments. Not surprisingly, they tend to instigate students who someday want to be 45-year-old bureaucrats in the Diversity department.

 
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  1. The difference between the Chinese Cultural Revolution and our own is that ours is, on a political spectrum, further to the left. They never attacked anyone for failing to celebrate homosexuality or failing to admire someone’s hair. And no one was branded a racist for advocating equal treatment among the races.

  2. Franz says:

    …At 45, she was more than two decades older than the high school and university students who formed the bulk…

    Well oh well yes indeed. The sixties in China and the USA and France (etc.) sound about the same.

    As early as the Berkeley Free Speech riot of autumn 1964 everyone who was actually a student was crabbing about the number of 35-and-older “student protesters” showing up on campus. And this was quite a bit after the Civil Riots Demonstrations were shown to be totally infested with outside agitators.

    The real question about this peculiar decade comes down to Was Anything Real? So far my guess is no.

    The USA under Lyndon, just PR. France and even the Prague Spring, flukes, maybe. But China under Mao? We thought that, at least, had to be real. It turns out nothing was. The world was already under the grip of the Spectacle. It’s all fake. This is not healthy.

    • Agree: Counterinsurgency
    • Replies: @El Dato
  3. istevefan says:

    A lot of Youth Rebellions turn out to be less spontaneous than they might seem, but instead are driven by 45-year-old bureaucrats responding to power struggles at the Top, with ambitious students then responding to which way the winds seem to be blowing among the grown-ups.

    In the US some of the leaders of the 1960s student protests were not exactly undergrads themselves. I was surprised to find out Abbie Hoffman, among others, wasn’t even a baby boomer. Now granted, he wasn’t 45, but he was not a 21 year old about to get inducted into the Army either.

  4. Anonymous[185] • Disclaimer says:

    A lot of Youth Rebellions turn out to be less spontaneous than they might seem, but instead are driven by 45-year-old bureaucrats responding to power struggles at the Top, with ambitious students then responding to which way the winds seem to be blowing among the grown-ups.

    Still, the cultural revolution really went off the rails, and its main victims were the communist party intellectual class. Things spiraled so out of control that students were actually attacking professors and administrators.

    In contrast, PC in the US is essentially orchestrated by the professors. Sure, some get burned, especially if they’re moderate liberal, but the professor class controls the students who have no ideas of their own.

    In China during the Cultural Revolution, the students ousted the professors and the like for a decade. In the US, the professors remain in the institutions while students are out of there in 4 yrs, to be replaced by new batch of dummies who are easy to manipulate and mold.

    In the case of China, as sad as it was, there was a kind of poetic justice because the students and youth mainly attacked communist functionaries(labeled as ‘capitalist roaders’ for being loyal to Liu Shao Chi and Deng) who’d created the repressive system under Mao. They were devoured by the very system they helped create.
    It’d be cooler in the US if the students turned against the professors and administrators and hurled them off roof tops. That I would cheer. A Chinese-Style cultural revolution might actually do some good to US universities. Have idiot students terrorize the idiot professors.

    Anyway, it goes to show that tone and manner are very important to the political culture of a society. The problem of CR was its manic tone of hysteria. With emotions running so high, everything was Manichean, a war of light vs dark. And if you were not totally and passionately on the side of the Light, you were on the other side and had to be crushed. You fell out of grace not only with wrongthink but wrongfeel. You had to not only say the right things but hyperventilate about them.

    This is why manners must be part of the larger culture. China had a culture of manners, but it had grown overly elitist and haughty, dismissive of most people. It came to be seen as anti-people and anti-progress in modernizing China beset with so many problems. Mao purported to lead the angry Chinese mobs and stirred up their rage. If the requisite rage wasn’t there, it was inflamed by commissars and propaganda.

    Anglo culture avoided most such radicalism because the culture of manners. More than the French and Germans, Anglos developed an allergy to mass hysteria, a tendency shared by elites and masses alike. Because emotions were under check by manners, people could venture to offer different views on the basis of reasoned debate dignified by proper manners. Without manners, there is nothing to restrain the emotions, and then, a viewpoint reaches manic delirium that will not tolerate any deviance from its purism.

    Looks like the culture of manners is breaking down in the US. Jewish elites, judging by their pieces in NYT, are utterly manic hysterical, and they are fanned the flames of BLM thugs, Antifa nuts, feminist crazies, homo-tranny meanies, etc.
    A vulgarized culture of shamelessness/hedonism and radicalized culture of blame-game have led to lunacies like homomania, pussy marches, black self-worship, and out-of-control chutzpah.

    According to the Media, it’s Trump who inflamed populist rage on the Right, but in fact, Trump voters are far more restrained than Jews, blacks, and PC hordes. The problem is who/whom. As far as the Power is concerned, no amount of hysteria on the ‘left’ is problematic, but even a bit of health enthusiasm on the ‘right’ is NAZIS ALL OVER AGAIN. It’s like no amount of hysterical paeans to Jews and Israel at AIPAC is problematic in America, but “It’s Okay to be White” is deeply ‘triggering’ and ‘white supremacist’.

  5. Jack D says:

    It seems like most #Me Too accusations have been initiated by women in Comrade Nie’s age group – 45 and up. If any younger women have come forward, it is usually only after older women made the first accusations regarding how they were once harassed (usually back when they were in their teens or 20’s). (Amusingly, some of these women were “harassed” repeatedly for years and years and didn’t seem to object at the time but kept going back for more – gluttons for punishment I guess.)

    It seems like women use sex as a weapon against their enemies only when all possibility of their using it as a tool for personal advancement are exhausted, either because their own allure is gone or because the accused career is in shambles and he is no longer in a position to help them anyway.

  6. njguy73 says:
    @Hannah Katz

    And no one was branded a racist for advocating equal treatment among the races.

    I’m sure that would have happened during China’s Cultural Revolution had there been other races.

    • Replies: @Don't Look at Me
  7. Her father belonged to a long family line of well-off landowners and doctors, but many of his children embraced revolutionary politics. …

    “The Revolution” always seems a top-down scheme to allow the ruling class to maintain its privileges under a new brand name.

    • Agree: MikeatMikedotMike
    • Replies: @getaclue
  8. No mention of the millions dead under mao. Can you imagine an obituary to a nazi that doesn’t include the 600 gogorillion? We need to stigmatize socialism.

  9. The poster brazenly denounced the Communist Party secretary of Peking University, where Ms. Nie worked, as well as two other Beijing officials.

    I like how the University keeps its name in English, instead of expecting us to use the unpronounceable Mandarin.

    …which way the winds seem to be blowing among the grown-ups.

    What grown-ups?

    Ms. Nie leapt to political stardom.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    , @Jack D
  10. @Anonymous

    Yeah, you’re writing about my comment on golf vs tennis in the last post.

    Golf people:

    Anglo culture avoided most such radicalism because the culture of manners. More than the French and Germans, Anglos developed an allergy to mass hysteria, a tendency shared by elites and masses alike. Because emotions were under check by manners, people could venture to offer different views on the basis of reasoned debate dignified by proper manners. Without manners, there is nothing to restrain the emotions, and then, a viewpoint reaches manic delirium that will not tolerate any deviance from its purism.

    Tennis people:

    Looks like the culture of manners is breaking down in the US. Jewish elites, judging by their pieces in NYT, are utterly manic hysterical, and they are fanned the flames of BLM thugs, Antifa nuts, feminist crazies, homo-tranny meanies, etc.
    A vulgarized culture of shamelessness/hedonism and radicalized culture of blame-game have led to lunacies like homomania, pussy marches, black self-worship, and out-of-control chutzpah.

  11. (Mao) praised the poster as the ” first Marxist-Leninist big character poster in the country.”

    I understand he was also quite taken by that poster of the two pigs having sex with the caption reading,”Makin’ bacon.”

    • LOL: Harry Baldwin
  12. El Dato says:
    @Franz

    Dead people were real enough.

    But yeah, it the “student riots of ’69” were mainly 30+ professional losers with too many books about communist theory looking for glory, meek profs standing by while their courses were picketed by baying hordes and loud females wanting to have their genitalia tickled by Guevera impersonators. Nothing real there.

    • Replies: @Franz
  13. OT: The NYT’s editorial board has come out for ending college admission preferences for “legacies.” Their only qualm is that due to decades of affirmatve action many legacies are non-white. But those privileged individuals can still get in through racial preferences. So it’s all good.

    Backers of legacy preference point out that at Harvard and other schools across the country, the student body — and with it the pool of alumni — has gotten more diverse over time. That means that the composition of the legacy population is also diversifying. At Harvard, evidence from the trial showed, some 80 percent of legacy admissions for the class of 2014 were white, while only 60 percent of legacies in the class of 2019 were white. Would ending legacy preference equate to pulling up the ladder ahead of a more diverse group of students who could leverage their legacy status?

    Not in the least. Consideration of race in admissions can be defended not only as a remedy for past injustices but also as an imperative for schools seeking to represent the population at large. But continuing to give applicants an advantage simply because of where their parents went to school is, as one critic called it, “a form of property transfer from one generation to another.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/07/opinion/sunday/end-legacy-college-admissions.html
    /blockquote>

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  14. R.G. Camara says: • Website

    1. Acrhive.org, please. Do not give the NY Times links or clicks.

    2. So just before time communist organizations in the U.S. and in Western Europe were causing “spontaneous” student marches, oppositions, uprisings, and rallies, the commies in China were organizing students the same way.

    The 1960s were nothing more than a very successful organization by communists of the idiot students into doing their will. All around the world.

    Fuck the Boomers, those useful idiots.

  15. ‘as one critic called it, “a form of property transfer from one generation to another.”’

    Nothing worse than a society that allows generational property transfer!

  16. Paul says:

    The Cultural Revolution had its zigs and zags. You could be in trouble for being on the ultraleft at the wrong time. You had better not be zigging when you should be zagging.

  17. Kronos says:
    @istevefan

    Who else do you believe were the biggest winners in playing that game? Regardless if they were 21 or a bit older in 1960s America.

    Thomas Sowell had a great quote that universities are filled to the gills with 1960s radicals that performed a giant sit-in but never left in 50 years.

  18. @istevefan

    But he and his fellow traveler Jerry Rubin were _______?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  19. Dr. X says:

    … Despite her limited education, she was among the party loyalists sent to watch over the university, regarded as a seedbed of unorthodox ideas. In 1963 she was promoted to Communist Party secretary of the philosophy department, which was turning out teachers and theorists trained in Marxist-Maoist doctrine.

    That’s kinda the way it works in the academy today. There’s quite a number of relatively stupid functionaries and administrators enforcing petty rules of political correctness over far more educated professors. I personally got shitcanned fom a college of some 30,000 students where neither the vice-president for academic affairs nor the chair of my department held a doctorate. (They were, however, females… and vaginas must always be promoted at the expense of penis-people, especially white penis-people).

    There are professors who do it too, but fewer than you might think. A fair number of professors have no interest in the PC crap. Many are old-style nerd-liberals rather than fanatics. But the administrators push the fanaticism on them and make compliance necessary for tenure and promotion. The loudmouthed, hysterical professors you see in the media with crazy leftist ideas are the ones who can get away with it because they know that the deans and provosts and the VPs are sympathetic and will give them free rein.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    , @Mr. Anon
  20. guest says:

    It needs be remembered the Cultural Revolution was no spontaneous happening among spotless youth against corrupt elders. It was another Great Purge. (Also, revenge by Madame Mao on everyone who dissed her). Youth then as now is foolish and easily manipulated.

    Funny part was when they armed youth militias, like Antifa with guns. Only in addition to terrorizing populi, they spent most of their time fighting eachother. Then fighting the Party returning for its guns.

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
  21. BB753 says:

    Young people are invariably always fools until they turn 35.

  22. Helo says:

    “Born Red” by Gao Yuan is a good look at the goings on of the chinese cultural revolution…and possibly what we will see here.

    Overall it is a lot of personal vendettas, violence, spiteful humiliation, and power trips posing as political philosophy.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  23. @Helo

    Mrs. Mao, for example, made sure to get vengeance upon all the actresses who had beat her out for roles in the 1930s.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @getaclue
  24. @guest

    Madame Mao, along with Lady Macbeth and Madame Defarge, was but a piker compared to Frau Clinton. (God-willing, the country is still not ready for a gorgon in The Oval Office.)

  25. Our colleges these days employ enormous numbers of 45-year-old bureaucrats, for example in the ever-growing Diversity departments. Not surprisingly, they tend to instigate students who someday want to be 45-year-old bureaucrats in the Diversity department.

    🐎 白左马粪. 🐎

  26. Peterike says:

    “with ambitious students then responding to which way the winds seem to be blowing among the grown-ups.”

    You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

  27. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    Some days I think the rise of offense culture is a conspiracy engineered university humanities departments desperate to show that their female students will have viable careers post-graduation. In this case the career is HR lady making peace between vegans and leather daddies in the workplaces of the 21st century.

    • Replies: @Anon
  28. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Hannah Katz

    The difference between the Chinese Cultural Revolution and our own is that ours is, on a political spectrum, further to the left.

    What we’re seeing in the U.S. today is actually a Capitalist Cultural Revolution, organised and funded by billionaires and bankers and mega-corporations. Globalism, identity politics, Social Justice and open borders are right-wing ideological positions. They are intended to cement the power of the billionaires and bankers and mega-corporations.

    The U.S. Cultural Revolution is a far-right movement.

    The GloboDecadence is being driven by the rich and powerful for the purposes of crippling any effective opposition to the rich and powerful.

  29. @Hypnotoad666

    as one critic called it, “a form of property transfer from one generation to another.”

    This is also characteristic of intelligence, good looks, athletic prowess, and on and on. Those who would handicap the able so that everyone can be disabled will find fertile ground everywhere. In fact, those things I listed (among others) are more important to success in life than having a degree from the ‘right’ school.

    Separately:

    Our colleges these days employ enormous numbers of 45-year-old bureaucrats, for example in the ever-growing Diversity departments. Not surprisingly, they tend to instigate students who someday want to be 45-year-old bureaucrats in the Diversity department.

    If you’re ever privy to the data, you may be shocked at how well these non-productive ‘jobs’ pay. It’s almost like a form of property transfer.

  30. Kronos says:
    @Dr. X

    “There are professors who do it too, but fewer than you might think. A fair number of professors have no interest in the PC crap.”

    Care to provide a list of the best and worst departments you encountered that played the game? I could guess which ones were the worst but it’s good to get a sample from someone who worked around it.

    • Replies: @Dr. X
  31. @Reg Cæsar

    The Germans and the Japanese, among others, still say “Peking.”

  32. Franz says:
    @El Dato

    the “student riots of ’69” were mainly 30+ professional losers

    Yah.

    The Red Thirties reliving old glories, not fulfilled.

    And since four fifths of the boomers did not go to college but rather to fields, factories or the military, all the 30s left-behinds had to play with was their own kids. Liberal arts students mostly.

    But at least the US had better photo ops than China.

  33. Cherchez la femme, and don’t trust her if she’s over 30.

  34. @dfordoom

    Yup. Our globalarchs are clever: instead of sitting around waiting for the revolution to happen, they pre-empt it with a fake revolution designed to keep down the very working-class people who would benefit from a real revolution. They just replace class with race, sex and ‘orientation’.

    • Replies: @Ace
  35. Despite her limited education, she was among the party loyalists sent to watch over the university

    Is Buckley pretending here, or is he really this dense? Who better to “watch over” suspect intellectuals than someone doggedly loyal yet none too bright, and resentful towards those more educated?

  36. I had just written recently on one of these unz threads that a difference is that the Chinese Cult-Rev was organized from the top, while this American Cult-Rev “is” organized by the grassroots idiots. I still think this is partially true, but I put “is” in quotes because, as you all have written, there are lots of evil ones behind the scenes that organize, or at least pay for, this stuff to go on. It maybe only seems to come directly from the university students and other young snowflakes here. They are pretty brainwashed from the get-go nowadays.

    In Mao’s China the whole thing was started by Mao as another one of his brilliant projects*, and underlings and cadres all over the country worked to do his bidding. It got even more out of control than Mao expected, I think. (I read about 10 books, some of them 1st-hand accounts, about this idiocy in China roughly 10 years ago.)

    .

    * Excuse me, Godfree Roberts (of unz.com), if you are reading, that was SARCASM.

  37. I’d like to just state that I’ve been meaning to write a similar post (or 2 or 3) for months now on Peak Stupidity (had the pictures saved for a while). This is a great subject. I hope people who may read mine don’t think I got the idea directly from here, as much as I HAVE sponged off a number of Steve Sailer ideas from this blog regularly.

    OTOH, I’ve seen it elsewhere, such as in the writings here of John Derbyshire, who, in old terminology, is an old China hand and knows more than I do of the history.

  38. Another thing: I’ve made jokes about the pouring of pig blood on people and hanging posters around their necks, etc. We are really NOT THAT FAR from that point right now. It’d behoove us to not let things get that far or farther, as they did in China.

    The way you do that is resist NOW, as it’s a lot less dangerous than at later stages where the only way is a shooting civil war. It takes people standing up some and being courageous about their jobs and families, better suited for young single guys IMO, but we all have to take part in resisting this crap. It’s one thing to talk about this stupidity with co-workers who are in your camp, say in the car on a trip. It’s another to just push back right in the middle of the office or in the academic committee meeting.

    I give Steve Sailer lots of credit for writing his mind here, along with Mr. Unz who hosts all of this truth. I’ve praised him for including all sides, no matter how stupid, such as with the Commie writers like Godfree Roberts. However, it’s only the right that has to worry about the consequences from speaking their minds. For people on the left, they are taken care of by the institutions, and most of them don’t have real jobs that matter anyway.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Alfa158
    , @Dissident
  39. Dr. X says:
    @Kronos

    Well, it’s pretty obvious that any identity-politics department (Women’s Studies, African-American Studies, Queer Studies) is going to be among the worst, but not every college has such departments. In the ones that do, they’re not usually very big. The absolute worst of the so-called “mainstream” departments are almost always Sociology and Cultural Anthropology, which tend to be very female-dominated and given almost entirely to a neo-Marxist critical theory of “race-class-gender” and deconstructing bourgeois institutions like marriage, religion, monogamy, etc.

    The hard sciences and economics are usually going to be the most PC-resistant, but curiously enough they tend to keep their mouths shut and won’t refute the “party line” when it contradicts their science (e.g., that races actually exist as a product of evolutionary adaptation, that there are genetically only two sexes, that homosexuality cannot be a genetic trait or it would have been bred out, etc. )

    I guess that they’ve got a gravy train to protect, too, and it’s always safer talking about evolution among chimps and zebras than humans.

    • Replies: @Oddsbodkins
  40. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    However, it’s only the right that has to worry about the consequences from speaking their minds. For people on the left, they are taken care of by the institutions

    Rightists who toe the line, in other words those who act as cheerleaders for capitalism while supporting the identity politics/social justice/open borders positions that the bankers and billionaires are funding, do not have to worry about any consequences. They’re doing just fine. They’re safe as houses.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  41. Elli says:

    OT, on a tangent to America’s own university bureaucrat-led cultural revolution.

    “Prof accused of sexual harassment at UPenn starts job at Rutgers, but with some new rules”

    Or, “Don’t Touch My Chest”.

    Gasman’s former assistants at the University of Pennsylvania accused her of making repeated references to her body and sex life, commenting on co-workers’ sex lives, rubbing the arms and chests of Hispanic and black co-workers and encouraging her staff to have sex with each other, the Inside Higher Ed report said.

    https://www.nj.com/news/2019/09/prof-accused-of-sexual-harassment-at-upenn-starts-job-at-rutgers-but-with-some-new-rules.html

    $250,000 lateral move, and she isn’t even black , which is relevant, and should increase her vulnerability to politically and racially charged accusations since her specialty is Historic Black Colleges and she’s taking a black professor’s spot.

    Astonishing, Epstein-level, survival skills. Although he got bit in the end. What does she know?

    • Replies: @getaclue
  42. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The name of the university, like the duck, was fixed long before the system of transliteration changed and when Pinyin was adopted it did not automatically change along with it.

    Pinyin was primarily intended as a pedagogical tool for the Chinese themselves. Chinese has many different dialects that are often mutually unintelligible but they all use the same characters. The characters often no clue as to the phonetics. So if you are trying to teach a Shanghainese Mandarin the only way you can give him a clue as to how to pronounce 北京 in Mandarin is to romanize it and Pinyin was created for this purpose (and replaced earlier romanization systems such as Wade-Giles that were more geared toward Westerners).

    All romanization systems are approximate – when you say “Beijing” you are still not really speaking Mandarin but perhaps you are a bit closer (and it’s not any harder to say than Peking which is pretty clearly wrong. You could debate whether the first syllable (bei -northern) is really bei or pe but the 2nd syllable is definitely something soft like jing or ching and not the hard k king.) Some Chinese words came into English from other dialects where pronunciations are very different than Mandarin – thus we have tea instead of cha – it wasn’t just that the Westerners were stupid and heard cha as tea, they really heard tea (more or less) in Taishan dialect. (Others – Russians, Indians, must have heard it first in Mandarin and they have the closer chai in their languages). But I don’t know how or where they heard Peking for Beijing.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Anonymous
  43. @dfordoom

    Ahh, here we go again. If I had time I would have written you before on your first comment on this thread. You are still spreading that big lie, that the Fascist (more gentler term is “crony capitalists) globalist elites are somehow “capitalists”. They are far, far from anything resembling the people who want free markets and less government.

    Your definition of capitalism sucks, DforDoom. This way you can bash this “capitalism”, as the current system indeed is not working. (It’s just not capitalism, is all.) You can get away with that on Audacious’s threads, because there’s mostly just me calling you on this. Let’s see here.

    What’s your “rightist” mean, also? Anyone who is for open borders is not a Conservative. (He may very well be a member in good standing of the GOP, but what does that mean?) You’ve got your Conservatives on the right, and your Liberals*/Socialists/Commies on the left.

    Any real Conservative does have something to worry about if he stands up for his beliefs.

    .

    * Unfortunate use of a term that used to mean Libertarians, going back more than 60 years.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    , @dfordoom
  44. @Jack D

    Peking which is pretty clearly wrong.

    No, it isn’t. It’s close to the Cantonese. B in pinyin is actually an unaspirated P.

    “Peking” is English, which is my point. “Beijing” has an initial French P, a truly alien middle consonant, and tones. None of which exist in our tongue.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Ace
  45. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jim bob Lassiter

    But he and his fellow traveler Jerry Rubin were _______?

    I believe they happened to be of the Yippie persuasion.

  46. Mr. Anon says:
    @Dr. X

    There are professors who do it too, but fewer than you might think. A fair number of professors have no interest in the PC crap. Many are old-style nerd-liberals rather than fanatics.

    How many of them are left? I saw the transition in liberal arts faculties starting to take place even in the mid-to-late-80s. The old professors were mostly old fashioned liberals with old fashioned notions about scholarship, freedom of thought, etc. The young professors and grad students were rigidly leftist. It was pretty clear that once they were in the driver’s seat, they wouldn’t hire anyone to thier right.

    • Replies: @Dr. X
  47. Alfa158 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m wondering if Godfree Roberts is really a Communist. Although the China he shills for is run by a party that still labels itself as Communist, the country is by almost every definition now National Socialist.
    – In a Communist country the means of production are owned by the State.
    – There is relentless saturation of political indoctrination in daily life.
    – Economic wealth is low, but relatively evenly distributed and the wealth of the Party apparatchiks is generally not reported.
    – Politics is expansionist and a lot of effort is devoted to developing, promoting and supporting Communist revolution in foreign countries.

    – In a National Socialist country the means of production are oligarchic capitalist systems that are controlled by the State for its own purposes, and vastly enrich the elite.
    – The Chinese people still get some political indoctrination but it seems ritually perfunctory nowadays. The people spend a lot more time and energy in trying to get rich than memorizing Mao’s little red book.
    – The government does nothing to promote outside revolution and instead operates as a state-run Capitalism that colonizes foreign sources of raw materials for its industries, and develops outside markets for its business ventures.
    – The government doesn’t much care what kind of political systems govern other countries as long as they are not a threat to the Fatherland and they are buying lots of Chinese Stuff.
    – There is commonly glorifying of militarism, and jingoistic propagandizing for the native people as constituting a superior race and culture.

  48. Anonymous[664] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Right, Chinese whispers, literally in this case.

    Something similar happened to the name of Japan in English, which sounds nothing like the original Japanese name.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  49. @Steve Sailer

    She was supposedly the very best at the casting couch.

  50. So the question is, can a mostly non-white society preserve Western culture?

    Depends on if the non-whites are like this:

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  51. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Peking is not really English. If they had called it “Port Arthur” or something like that, it would be English but it was an earlier attempt at Romanizing the local name, before there was any real organized system of Romanization. I can believe it when you say that they were trying to Romanize some other dialect rather than the Mandarin – this would explain how they ended up so far off. As I said before, this explains why so many Chinese words that have come into English vary from their Mandarin pronunciation. Most of the early contact with the West came from the South – from Canton and Taishan. But I don’t think it’s Cantonese – the Romanization of Beijing in Cantonese is Bak Ging.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
  52. A lot of Youth Rebellions turn out to be less spontaneous than they might seem, but instead are driven by 45-year-old bureaucrats responding to power struggles at the Top, with ambitious students then responding to which way the winds seem to be blowing among the grown-ups.

    Full agreement there. Summer of Love East Village had almost no political content for nearly all of the people there, as far as I could tell. They just served as a backdrop for media pieces and political professionals.

    Counterinsurgency

  53. @R.G. Camara

    Well, it wasn’t all fun and games. A fair number of boomer boys got drafted into a combat zone, the last time that could happen. Those that made it back were then treated to a media campaign that made them sound like a public danger. Add to that a seriously intense propaganda campaign in favor of what turned out to be deadly drugs. Not all fun and games, except for the political professionals behind the smoke.

    Counterinsurgency

  54. @dfordoom

    “The U.S. Cultural Revolution is a far-right movement.”

    Agree with the basic point you’re making, but I do quibble with your use of the “far-right” term. The binary b.s. political system of right and left is an ongoing psychological warfare operation, used by the oligarchs you describe. What we are facing is authoritarianism that shifts between the two extremes of the modern era — fascism and totalitarianism. During the Cheney Regency the system was dipping perilously into fascism. Today it’s the totalitarianism of Woke Capital.

    I do like your “GloboDecadence” term; it’s more accurate than the sarcastic “GloboHomo.”

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  55. Anon[957] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Now I’ve heard of being quirky and funny before, but this one takes the cake!

    Twee-ness levels: Maximized 1000+

  56. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    The Japanese name for Japan (taken from the Chinese) is 日本 (Nihon or Nippon ) – day origin (the place where the sun rises, which it literally is relative to China). Or poetically, the Land of the Rising Sun.

    In Chinese (where the Portuguese first heard the name) 日本 is written Riben in modern Pinyin but the ri is really nothing like an English ri – it’s more like a zi or ci or ii (or none of them) and the Pinyin b is really more like a p. With guo (kingdom) at the end the early Westerner explorers heard it as something like Zipangni or Cipangu. A few more whispers down the lane and you have Japan. It’s not 100% clear how the word came into English (via the Portuguese or Dutch and whether they got it from the Japanese themselves or from some dialect of Chinese) but everyone was trying to say some variation of 日本 one way or the other and somehow it got rendered into Ja Pan.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  57. Dr. X says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Sure, they’re lefties, but they’re nerds and sheep. They refuse to challenge the extreme and outrageous stuff.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  58. AKAHorace says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Your definition of capitalism sucks, DforDoom. This way you can bash this “capitalism”, as the current system indeed is not working. (It’s just not capitalism, is all.) You can get away with that on Audacious’s threads, because there’s mostly just me calling you on this. Let’s see here.

    This sounds a bit like the defense of communism that some leftists make “it’s never really been tried, the soviet union, peoples republic of china, cuba, Khymer Rouge, Mengistus Ethiopia, Nicaragua etc, were not really communist”. A reasonable definition of communism seems to be to me what you get when you let communists run things.

    Can you give any examples of actual capitalist societies that you think are worth emulating ?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  59. AKAHorace says:
    @Jack D

    I don’t think it’s Cantonese – the Romanization of Beijing in Cantonese is Bak Ging.

    English speakers differ on how to write the bp sound of Peking/Beijing and the gk sound of Kung-Fu/Gung-Fu. (as well as the d or t sound of Taoism/Daoism). So Bak Ging is not too far off from Peking.

    Also it’s a bit odd that Cantonese is not on Google translate given its importance. Do you think that this could be a political decision ?

    • Replies: @Ace
  60. J.Ross says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Asians hate the most important parts of our culture (speaking to your betters, innovating past your elders, drinking without being ordered to do so by your boss, arranging your own marriage) so no, it’d actually be worse than white people owning a nice vase or munching on General Dao’s Microwavable Chicken.

  61. @Jack D

    Part of it is different European countries conflicting over different areas. Some of the initial Chinese transliterations came from French or other Europeans. The p and b sounds are often confused. For example, Taipei vs. Taibei. Same with the k and t sounds. The Tahitian word Tabu and the Hawaiian word Kapu are the same word; one was transliterated by French the other by Americans. Similarly with the Tahitian word Vahine and the Hawaiian word Wahine.

    We get the same thing in the US with Indian (feathers, not dots) names.

    Many tribes have names with sounds not in their language, sometimes another tribe’s insult name for their tribe. Other tribes have names from extinct dialects within the tribe. For example, the word “Cherokee” comes from the extinct Eastern Cherokee dialect. In the Western Cherokee dialect, spoken in Oklahoma, the pronunciation is “Tsa-la-gi”. The Middle Cherokee dialect, spoken in NC, is somewhere in between.

    One of the most interesting cases was a tribe in the Louisiana Territory. The French transliteration of the tribe was “Arkansas”. The English transliteration was “Quapaw”. These days the tribe is called the Quapaw tribe, but the state and river named after them are called Arkansas.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  62. Dissident says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The way you do that is resist NOW, as it’s a lot less dangerous than at later stages where the only way is a shooting civil war. It takes people standing up some and being courageous about their jobs and families, better suited for young single guys IMO, but we all have to take part in resisting this crap.

    The “LGBTQ” assault on decency and sanity, and especially, the targetting of children and youth by said scourge, is one front of the Cultural Revolution for which the number of people who have resisted seems appallingly low. This is clearly one of the most powerful and influential lobbies; look at how relatively quickly they have managed to completely reverse societal attitudes and policies.

    Some current and recent news in this area:

    New York Times: ‘Meet the Rising Drag Stars of America. They’re Tweens’

    Another victory: Texas city stops “Drag Queen Story Hour” after MassResistance pressure

    BREAKING NEWS: “Drag Queen” in Austin, TX Public Library exposed by MassResistance as convicted male prostitute

    Notice, in the photos for the above two stories, how few and how relatively old the protestors appear to be. Where are the outraged hordes? I find this most dismaying.

    ‘Drag Syndrome?’ — LaBarbera, Mefferd Discuss Cruel LGBTQ Exploitation of Men with Down Syndrome

  63. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    26 letters is not really adequate to represent all of the sounds present in every human language. Not even close. Even the 107 letters, 52 diacritics and four prosodic marks in the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet, not India Pale Ale) are not really adequate. Even for English, we don’t realize how much the written language is merely an approximation of the actual sounds and not a complete expression of the spoken language. A pure phonetic expression comes out sounding like a 1978 Speak and Spell toy, which is not even close to natural language.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @keuril
  64. @Hannah Katz

    Another big difference. As bad as things got in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, and it got really horrible, at no point was anyone worried about the Chinese disappearing as a people and being replaced by more compliant foreigners.

  65. @Anonymous

    Fascinating insight on how a culture of manners can make a difference. One thing I’ve noticed is how the far left is trying to hijack that same culture of manners, by dictating new manners. Like how you must refer to people by their preferred pronoun. And you must never use a transsexuals birth-name if they’ve chosen a new one (dead naming, it will get you banned for life on Twitter) It would just be rude otherwise. And we’re all supposed to act as if it has always been that way.

  66. @Jack D

    I taught at a university for a time. Almost all college students are blank slates when they arrive. They haven’t been thinking about politics. That’s why so many universities and colleges mandate an ethnic studies or women’s studies class for all freshmen. Get them indoctrinated from the very beginning. I’ve had more than a few white male students come to me to complain about how they’ve been treated in those classes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  67. @njguy73

    China has had minorities going way back. They even get affirmative action like preferences at universities. Not because of any mistreatment in the past though. Chinese can speak openly about the pathologies of other ethnicities. I think the Chinese Communist Party thinks there will be less unrest if they give them some benefits. Also indoctrination occurs in university, so there’s a benefit there.

  68. @Jack D

    The Taiwan Chinese say their Bo-Po-Mo-Fu is far more accurate than Pinyin. Having used both, I agree.

    However, Pinyin is far more useful, because it users the Roman alphabet.

    Using Pinyin is a good way to confuse Westerners though. Few Westerners can decipher the difference between the “j” and the “zh” sounds. It grated me during the Beijing Olympics because about 99% of American reporters used an identical mispronunciation of Beijing. Hint: the “j” is pronounced a lot more closely to the English “j” than you might think.

    Many of the Pinyin correspond to sounds not found in English. Such as the z, c, zh, and arguably the ch and sh.

    I spent a year in Taiwan. The Minnan dialect doesn’t have the zh, ch and sh Pinyin sounds. They use the z, c and s sounds instead. Drove me nuts.

    $44 in Mandarin is “si shi si kuai. They pronounced it “si si si kuai”. That took me a while.

    I don’t know is: “ wo bu zhidao.” They pronounced it either “wo bu zidao” or used the Mandarin form of the Minnan words: “wo bu xiaode.”

    The standard greeting: “ni chi fan le mei you” (have you eaten rice?) became “ni ci fan le mei you”. That wasn’t bad. Except being a dumb American at first I answered with what I had for breakfast until I learned to always answer: “wo chi bao le”. (I am full).

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Reg Cæsar
  69. Thirdeye says:
    @Anonymous

    In contrast, PC in the US is essentially orchestrated by the professors. Sure, some get burned, especially if they’re moderate liberal, but the professor class controls the students who have no ideas of their own.

    Mostly professors in low-skill “soft disciplines,” sociology, poly sci, communications….and of course gender and ethnic studies, hand-in-hand with diversicrats. The STEM disciplines are under attack from the diversicrats and whoever they can whip up into a mob.

    Social media heightens the tendency for hysterical groupthink and undermines mannered, reasoned discourse. We’re just starting to see its ramifications according to Jonathan Haidt.

  70. Thirdeye says:
    @Jack D

    It seems like women use sex as a weapon against their enemies only when all possibility of their using it as a tool for personal advancement are exhausted,…..

    That is exactly what Ellen Pao did. The fuck-your-way-to-the-top game didn’t work out for her, so she filed a sex discrimination lawsuit.

  71. @Alfa158

    Sorry for the late reply, Alfa. I think he is a Communist because he worships Chairman Mao. It’s one thing just to be a China-lover, good or bad, but man, the stuff is laughable. Guys on some of the threads were writing about whose 5-year plans kicked more ass, Red China’s or Soviet Russia’s. That’d be fine if they had been joking, but NOPE.

    Anyway, Mr. Roberts is a very polite fellow, so I try not to argue with any animosity with him. It’s just that, well, did we not learn a damn thing from 70 years of Communism in Russia, 40 years of (hard-core) Communism in China, 60 years and counting in Cuba, Southeast Asia…? I mean, it’s not like there aren’t any examples out there, people!

  72. @Alfa158

    Oh, and I agree with your assessment of modern China.

  73. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    When strangers ask you “how are you” in English do you actually tell them how you are doing?

    It is an interesting insight into Chinese culture that the bar is set so low – the fact that you have eaten is not taken for granted but set as the bar for “doing well” (and that “a bowl of rice” is synonymous with “a meal”). And hunger is something that persisted in China until modern times – the most recent great famine was within living memory (1961). And until the mid- 80s (and longer out in the countryside) they were still as poor as church mice. Maybe you weren’t starving but your most valuable asset might be a bicycle. So their current prosperity is all very new and just mind boggling – imagine what it would be like if the average American was 10x richer than he was in 1980.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  74. @Jack D

    I would be happy if I could afford to live the way my parents did in the 1980s.

    My father spent a year teaching in China in the early-mid 1980s on a Fulbright Fellowship. The country was poor indeed. I gave them the phone number of a friend of mine in Beijing — someone with pull the the Party. When they were touring Beijing, they asked a tour guide to call the number for them. The tour guide had never known anyone with a private phone.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  75. @Anonymous

    What about Trump voters who are Jewish or black? (In other words, generalizations like yours are often contradictory.)

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  76. Muggles says:

    The Cultural Revolution was a disaster for China. Set them back at least two decades at the cost of millions of lives. Killed or wasted. Very sad.

    The same Red Guard mentality (same but far less powerful) permeates the current so-called Progressive movement of the Democrats (which the Chinese refer to as the “white Left”, quite perceptively) which endorses violence and forcibly shutting up/beating up those who may disagree.

    If Madame Hillary had usurped Trump, as she wanted to, and unleashed Comey, et.al. and the hordes of unemployable university students indoctrinated in Ident-o-Marxism, that’s what we’d have here. Antifa is a taste of what they want.

    Public shaming, wall posters, humiliations and executions. Not just Trumpers and conservatives but of everyone who doesn’t follow the Hillary-AOC Party Line. The Chinese version nearly destroyed China and wrecked many of the irreplaceable historic monuments and sites. A generation of scholars, engineers and intellectuals was lost. Mao finally stopped it when his own food ran out.

    Let’s hope that doesn’t happen here. When they successfully shut down Unz and similar voices, then it’s time to oil up the freedom machines. The ones they try to ban.

  77. Jack D says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    It wasn’t just China. In many European countries, wire line phone services was run as a branch of the postal service, so phone services had all the speed and efficiency that we associate with civil service employees with ironclad lifetime employment. It wasn’t unusual for there to be a years long waiting list to get phone service installed. As a government run monopoly, the phone service lost money on every customer so they were not exactly anxious to sign up more.

    This leads me to a old Soviet joke. A man signs up to have phone service installed at his flat. The clerk offers him a date 20 years in the future. The man replies, “morning or afternoon?”. The clerk is incredulous, ” What difference does it make whether it’s the morning or the afternoon, it’s 20 years from now?” The man replies, “The plumber is coming in the morning.”

    • LOL: Dissident
  78. Anonymous[366] • Disclaimer says:

    So it sounds like she was a professional Communist Party minder paid to oversee and snitch on professors.

    The family name Nie is written 聶 in traditional Chinese, consisting of the word “ear” (耳) written three times over.

    Only a role as minder/snitch can explain Nie’s rise in a fiercely competitive communist system, especially her move to Peking University. (The university never renamed itself Beijing University.)

    Given its subsequent history, Nie’s famous “big character poster” was almost certainly ghost-written and planted by higher-ups in the Mao/Jiang Qing faction of the CPC hierarchy. The poster was read out on government radio and published in the People’s Daily a mere week later.

    BTW, another famous Nie was the composer Nie Er 聶耳, “Four-Ears Nie,” who composed China’s national anthem.

  79. @Paleo Liberal

    Hint: the “j” is pronounced a lot more closely to the English “j” than you might think.

    Isn’t it more like the д in где?

    So Beijing has a Romance P and a Russian д, both followed by toned vowels. The only phoneme it shares with English is -ng.

    This why I say Peking. In English. Or German.

    Italian has the wonderful Pechino. And George Soros’s tongue?I

    https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekino

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  80. @Reg Cæsar

    Sorry, где should read где. Shouldn’t italicize and Slavicize at the same time.

    But damn, if Cyrillic cursive isn’t as beautiful as Cyrilic print is ugly:

  81. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Any real Conservative does have something to worry about if he stands up for his beliefs.

    What does the word conservative even mean these days? Are there any? I’d wager there are none in Congress.

    If you believe in free markets you’re not a conservative, you’re a liberal. Most of the people who pose as conservatives are right-wing liberals. The only things they want to conserve are corporate profits and their own wealth. Such people are very happy indeed with the current social radicalism because it’s good for the corporate sector and it distracts ordinary people from issues like corporate profits. Such people are in no danger of being oppressed for their beliefs.

    Libertarians are in no danger of being oppressed for their beliefs.

    Anyone with social conservative beliefs or who doubts the global warming scam or open borders is in extreme danger of being stomped as a result, regardless of their political orientation on economic issues.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  82. dfordoom says: • Website
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Agree with the basic point you’re making, but I do quibble with your use of the “far-right” term. The binary b.s. political system of right and left is an ongoing psychological warfare operation, used by the oligarchs you describe.

    Yes. My idea of describing the U.S. Cultural Revolution as far-right is to trigger SJWs.

    But yes, I agree that left-right conservative-liberal are these days completely useless terms used by the elites to muddy the waters.

    I do like your “GloboDecadence” term; it’s more accurate than the sarcastic “GloboHomo.”

    Thanks. I only just thought it up and this was the first time I’d taken it for a test drive.

  83. @Dr. X

    > homosexuality cannot be a genetic trait or it would have been bred out.

    Recessive genetic diseases don’t breed out, because of the fitness advantage of being heterozygous. No reason that something similar, but more complicated, can’t be going on with homosexuality.

    • Replies: @Dissident
  84. Ace says:
    @AKAHorace

    At various times in the past English speakers had various transliteration systems to deal with regarding Mandarin Chinese; Wade-Giles, Yale, and now pinyin, for example. There may have been others. I have no idea what other foreigners used.

    They did not differ on how to write the pronunciation of Mandarin. They merely followed the simple rules of whatever system they preferred. If memory serves me, Hsi, Syi, and Xi, respectively render Mr. Xi’s surname. Peiching, Beijing, and Beijing for the capitol city. Hsiao, syao, and xiao for small. Easy peasy. Pinyin is the least intuitive in my mind.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  85. Ace says:
    @dfordoom

    ** far-right movement. **

    Suuuure it is. Good thinking.

    PS – billionaire does not = capitalist.

  86. Ace says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    Define “real revolution.”

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  87. Ace says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “Bei” has an initial English, French, and German “b.” Boy, Bardot, or Bach.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  88. eugyppius says:

    Once again, wrong time zone, late to party, so nobody will read this, but I wanted to agree and amplify:

    Our colleges these days employ enormous numbers of 45-year-old bureaucrats, for example in the ever-growing Diversity departments. Not surprisingly, they tend to instigate students who someday want to be 45-year-old bureaucrats in the Diversity department.

    This is precisely right. I spent (wasted?) six years of my life at an enormously wealthy and prestigious institute of higher education. It drove me crazy and eventually I got the hell out of there, ditched tenure and all. Anyway, at those schools admitting minority students and hiring minority profs has become a self-perpetuating status game, wherein all the self-consciously elite institutions poach each other’s minority admits/hires in order to be able to boast the moast minorities.

    The assistant profs we hired out of Diversity Studies PhD programs were already raving lunatics with mental health problems and personality disorders. A lot of the students were just, well, eighteen year-olds. The competition for blacks in particular is so fierce that as everybody knows a big chunk of them have to be imported from Africa and arrive on campus as politically naive as possible. All that changes as they’re steadily radicalized from the moment of frosh orientation with loads of oppressed/oppressor bullshit. What also happens particularly in the case of blacks is they can’t hack the ordinary curriculum and so get shunted (or shunt themselves) into one of the various Diversity Studies parallel curricula where everyone gets As as long as they uphold the party line. Then they’re further radicalized. If it weren’t for the battalions of diversity officers and admin concern trolls and minority profs preaching the diversity gospel, student discontent in this fantasy cruise-ship land of ever revolving entertainments and near infinite resources that we call elite higher ed in America would be about nil.

    And about that discontent: There was at least one major protest per semester during my time in that hell on earth, and they were always coordinated or encouraged behind the scenes by an unholy concoction of minority admins and profs. It was literally one agitprop event after the other, with all the most incapable, physically obese and generally unappealing members of student body minorities turning up on the quad with preprinted expensive carefully produced signs that somebody had provided them. In the course of most of these chimpouts, those chimping out would demand that we hire more diversity admins, so there was never any doubt on which side their bread was buttered. Especially interesting were those protests that targeted specific professors or administrators, which were anything but spontaneous but reflections of calculated power struggles as diversity administrators continued their guerrilla war on the institution and their cancerous expansion.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  89. Jack D says:
    @Ace

    Pinyin is more compact and less intuitive (to an English speaker) because it uses single letters (x,c,j,etc.) to express some sounds that in English are usually expressed as consonant blends. Otherwise it is similar to Yale. It takes about 5 minutes to learn the substitutions.

  90. Jim Smith says:

    An excellent recounting of personal suffering during the Cultural Revolution (by a U.S. trained English professor) is A SINGLE TEAR: A FAMILY’S PERSECUTION, LOVE, AND ENDURANCE IN COMMUNIST CHINA, by Ningkun Wu. That’s socialism. That’s what’s coming for us today.

  91. Jack D says:
    @eugyppius

    Yes, the situation in the academy is tragi-comical but in a sense these groups have been bought off cheaply – our cities are not burning. Blacks are not rioting. Student protests are harmless little affairs, as you say arranged under ( astroturfed by) adult Party members and not spontaneous eruptions of anger so the faux “anger” is always channeled within limits so there is minimal property damage (if any) and no real violence. Compared to the sixties, our cities and campuses are peaceful and the inmates are (literally) fat and happy. The Cultural Revolution as conducted by cat ladies. No animals were harmed in the making of this Cultural Revolution.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  92. @Ace

    “Bei” has an initial English, French, and German “b.” Boy, Bardot, or Bach.

    B is a voiced bilabial plosive, a sound not found in Mandarin.

    The Pinyin B is an unaspirated voiceless biannual plosive, P in French. In English and German, those occur only after an S:

    The voiceless stops /p/, /t/, /k/ are aspirated except when preceded by a sibilant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German_phonology

    Beijing in IPA: pèi.tɕíŋ
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Mandarin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese_phonology

    Mandarin Chinese Language Consonants
    The following 23 consonants appear only at the beginning of a Mandarin Chinese syllable and are called “initials.”

    b – unaspirated p, as in “bay”
    p – aspirated p, as in “pit”…

    Learning the Mandarin Chinese Language Consonants

  93. eugyppius says:
    @Jack D

    Totally agreed, the Cultural Revolution: Crayola Edition has no teeth–it’s merely demeaning. But not for nothing, even this airsoft Maoism has destroyed a great part of American academia outside of a few (increasingly besieged) pockets in the natural sciences, which for me has been a bit sad.

  94. @AKAHorace

    Can you give any examples of actual capitalist societies that you think are worth emulating ?

    The US of A, circa 1789 to 1985! Seriously? No good examples? That one was right under your nose, Horace.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    , @dfordoom
  95. @dfordoom

    Just change the definitions around to suit your point of view. I guess that works for you, but it’s a big hodgepodge of lies, though, is the only thing.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  96. Chinaman says:

    Look no further. The cultural revolution is repeating itself in Hong Kong. I dawn upon me that there is a genetic disposition for mass mania and anarchy in the disaffected chinaman. It seems to happen every 100 years and those who succeed in overthrowing the existing regime gain a survival advantage and thus multiply.

    I guess that’s sum up Chinese history.

  97. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    How come our side can’t do inspiring street posters? Why can’t our side ever inspire large groups of young people? Why are we always led by old people longing for the past.

    I was 7 years old in 1968 – I’m not longing for that.

  98. keuril says:
    @Jack D

    26 letters is not really adequate to represent all of the sounds present in every human language. Not even close. Even the 107 letters, 52 diacritics and four prosodic marks in the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet, not India Pale Ale) are not really adequate.

    And yet native speakers have no problem producing the correct English or whatever based on this incomplete information. The reason is that native speakers unconsciously know the phonological rules (rules governing the behavior of sounds in a particular language), just as they know the rules of grammar. A phonetic writing system just needs to provide an approximation of the language’s phonemes, and the native speakers’ knowledge of the language’s phonology allows them to take care of the rest.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  99. getaclue says:
    @dfordoom

    Some of the gist I agree with but “far-right movement”?– not so much. David Geffen billionaire who is part of the Lavender Mafia in Hwood if not head of it and GloboHomo Entertainment spreader = far right? Pritzker billionaire family in Chicago== who basically got Obama elected and are responsible for the Transgender takeover we currently see = far right? Lots of other examples– we have active unbelievably wealthy people pushing the NWO Globohomo agenda and they are Leftist/Communists– yes, they still want to be on top in the coming Communist Utopia (Hell) they are making but they are not part of any “far-right movement”– the NWO Globohomo movement is a Fascist (Government Control of the Peons in every way) Movement that inculcates mostly Leftist talking points and is of course all for the centralization of wealth in a relatively few hands–theirs.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  100. getaclue says:
    @San Fernando Curt

    Also Revolutions are always started and done by small groups–they are not “popular” movements or uprisings as they are always portrayed but generally staged events by the small Revolutionary Group–well financed of course by those looking for a certain result, or to cash in– Wall Street was behind Lenin etc. Mao had capitalist backers and ties– the majority of people in society are too busy working/trying to make a living and dealing with life issues to be involved in this type thing, as is the case in the USA with the current manufactured LGBTQP “revolution” and Identity Politics, they couldn’t get that stuff passed in a popular vote so it is forced in by Judges who are part of the “group” etc.– it takes only a small, motivated, and WELL FINANCED group with connections to cause a Revolution especially when the Mainslime Media is in on it…the USA lost its manufacturing base because a small well financed group decided they could make trillions by doing so and off shoring it–the vast majority of the citizens of the USA were not on board with it and did not vote for it but sustained all the losses….Viva Che barf….

    • Agree: San Fernando Curt
  101. getaclue says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Mao, with his nasty rotting teeth and practice of only relieving himself out of doors in his unique way–among other disgusting attributes, surrounded himself with adoring very young thangs (not quite a Pedo but close enough that if he was a ship land could bee seen….). The single best book on the monster that Mao was and as to who he really was is for my dollar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao:_The_Unknown_Story

    As usual the Racist NYSLimes was caught in some Commie Loving yet again, as is their wont at The Slimes (they just still love them some Uncle Joe Stalin and all that murdering of Christians he accomplished that they successfully got ignored in the USA winning a Pulitzer back then for lying about it….) they had high praise for Mao yesterday, ignoring the Mass Murder part of course, on Twitter and had to walk that back finally….The Slimes — defining “Enemy of the People” since its inception….

  102. getaclue says:
    @Elli

    I read she brought “$4 Million with her” — she seems to be a Rainmaker type as to raising money, grants, etc. and so she may get paid $250,000 but she is worth multiples of that — she gets a pass on the Sex Harassment because “vagina”….

    • Replies: @Jack D
  103. @Hannah Katz

    Baizuo. There was no such idiotic neo-Marxist crap in the USSR either. And today, USA is far to the left of Russia, with mutated bankster/googloid capitalism as rouge and mascara .

    There are further differences. E.g. the Chinese Cult Rev was forced from the top, the people had no choice about it, it was obey or die. Ours is voluntary. Same thing with the West’s gradual submission to Islam. As a Muslim in a Muslim country, or a white dhimmi in a country under Muslim rule (Spain, Hungary etc) , you had no choice: obey or die. But our ruling elite, especially in Europe, puts us in the most contemptible bracket of them all: voluntary dhimmis.

  104. Jack D says:
    @getaclue

    Honestly the stuff she is accused of doing is a whole bunch of nothing. It’s a little crude coming from a woman but I thought we were all supposed to be sexually liberated, genderqueer, blah, blah, blah. What about being open with your sexuality, speaking frankly, etc. The people who are complaining are squealing like Victorian maidens (“well, I never….) and you can be sure that they are not REALLY virgins (well except perhaps for some of the guys). They are doing this to stir up shit and not because they are really shrinking violets who cannot bear to hear about sex.

  105. getaclue says:

    I think you missed the point– the point isn’t how bad it was but given that it is at least this: “Gasman’s former assistants at the University of Pennsylvania accused her of making repeated references to her body and sex life, commenting on co-workers’ sex lives, rubbing the arms and chests of Hispanic and black co-workers and encouraging her staff to have sex with each other, the Inside Higher Ed report said. Many of the sexually explicit conversations took place in group texts for graduate students and other scholars working at the center that would have been covered by the nondisclosure agreement.” — The point is– Do you believe a man credibly accused of this conduct would be allowed to be a lateral hire into another University at $250k bringing the Circus with him? I don’t. No way Jose! Regardless of Rainmaking skills and pulling grant money etc. he would be done, finished, looking for a job in some other low paying field….So it works both ways for women on offense and defense, the “Vagina” rule– as it does in underage sex cases — generally women get way less, if any, prison time than male teachers for doing the same thing to an underage student….By the way, where I live in reality? the “Sexually Liberated” thing you mention? is dead as a door nail — as far as I can see as to men any way, especially the dreaded “whitey” male, men don’t even want to have lunch alone with women anymore for fear of being accused later of something (Pence Rule–now a norm for anyone not an idiot), “looking” at her inappropriately at the very least could be brought up later by an unhappy female co-worker/employee…none of this is on your radar in your reality? Not the 70’s anymore in the world I’m seeing–going on about sex on the job is a sure lawsuit/termination these days also–do you have a job or are you self employed or independently wealthy?….

  106. Jack D says:
    @keuril

    Yes, absolutely. It’s just that for non-native speakers, a phonetic writing system is always going to be incomplete. If you never stop to think about it, a “P” is just a P and you never learn that a P is sometimes aspirated (a puff of air) as in Pell and other times unaspirated as in spell – if you put your hand in front of your mouth you’ll feel the difference. But if you don’t pay attention or study this (and few people do), a p is just a p and we naturally aspirate it or not as the rules of English require without even thinking about it (and we always aspirate it as an initial letter).

    But then we get to Chinese or some other language and it calls for an unaspirated initial P and we don’t know how make that sound or we see a P and we just aspirate it and it sounds wrong to a native speaker. Then we voice an English B and it’s still wrong. Somehow we have to make a sound that’s not quite an English P and not quite an English B and doesn’t really exist in English. And when Chinese (French, Italians, etc.) try to speak English they have the same problem in reverse, even if they know the roman alphabet well – the letters are the same but the sounds ain’t.

    • Replies: @keuril
    , @AKAHorace
  107. Feryl says: • Website
    @istevefan

    At the end of the day, though, many (many!) Boomers really bought into the hard cultural liberalism exalted by middle aged 1960’s radicals. According to the general social survey, in the 1970’s Baby Boomers self-reported much more liberal attitudes about drugs and homosexuality than older generations did. The lesson to be learned here is that every generation needs to think for itself, instead of taking the short-cut of letting “cool” rebels of the older generations “educate” you.

    Actually expecting teenagers in the 1960’s to not automatically assume that conservative older people were clueless about drugs, sex, proper expression of emotion etc. was apparently too much to ask. When Boomers blame the minority of older cultural liberals for what happened to the the youth of the 1960’s, do they not realize that teenagers have free will? Nobody put a gun to the head of any Boomer and made them buy into radical cultural liberalism.

  108. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Don't Look at Me

    Yes, kids don’t care about politics. I gave no thought to any of this stuff until my mid-20s.

    (As a thought experiment, I sometimes imagine myself arguing with my younger self. Would I be able to convince kid-me to think about the issues discussed on this forum? I doubt it. More likely I would just have bored or offended my younger self.)

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  109. @Anonymous

    More likely I would just have bored or offended my younger self.

    I would have kicked my younger self’s ass, like in Fight Club, but, lucky for him, my younger self was just as conservative.

  110. keuril says:
    @Jack D

    But if you don’t pay attention or study this (and few people do), a p is just a p and we naturally aspirate it or not as the rules of English require without even thinking about it (and we always aspirate it as an initial letter).

    If you need to study it, you’re never going to get it. The people who get these and other distinctions get it because they hear it, not because they’ve read it in some book. If it were simply a matter of mansplaining basic phonetics and phonology to foreign learners, then nobody would have a foreign accent.

    But then we get to Chinese or some other language and it calls for an unaspirated initial P and we don’t know how make that sound or we see a P and we just aspirate it and it sounds wrong to a native speaker.

    The biggest tell for English native speakers in Chinese is the vowels. Consonant voicing/aspiration and the tones are easier hurdles to overcome.

  111. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @keuril

    Didn’t the Deseret Alphabet purport to phonetically cover all sounds used in English?
    It had something like 35 characters IIRC.

  112. dfordoom says: • Website
    @getaclue

    the NWO Globohomo movement is a Fascist (Government Control of the Peons in every way) Movement

    I thought you said they were commies? Now you’re saying they’re fascists?

    You’re making the mistake most people make, using words like communist and fascist as all-purpose scare words/insults to describe people you don’t approve of.

    Even if you accept the idea of fascism as a movement of the Left (and there are arguments for and against that) communism and fascism were very different ideologies. The essence of fascism was nationalism. Mussolini invented fascism as a way of creating a leftist ideology that accepted the reality that internationalism had proved to have little appeal for the masses. It was also intended as a kind of Third Way – neither pure socialism nor pure capitalism.

    Fascism no longer exists. The New World Order (or globohomo if you wish) is extremely nasty but it’s not fascism. It’s a new ideology and calling it fascism just confuses the issue. You can’t have globalist fascism – it’s a contradiction in terms.

    Communism no longer exists, except maybe in one or two very minor countries like North Korea. The New World Order is not communist. You can’t be a commie and be in love with capitalism. China today is not in any sense a communist state. They’ve created a new ideology.

    It’s difficult to discuss modern politics without using obsolete terms like left, right, conservative, liberal, communist, fascist but it has to be kept clearly in mind that these terms are obsolete, wildly inaccurate and misleading. And they’re used in a very deliberate manner to mislead us.

    The modern “Left” is not leftist and it’s not communist. In economic terms it has some resemblances to old-fashioned right-wing liberalism. I still like the idea of triggering SJWs by describing them as far-right which is inaccurate but it’s not as inaccurate as describing them as leftists.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  113. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Just change the definitions around to suit your point of view.

    The things themselves have changed. We’re not dealing with the same ideologies we were dealing with in the 50s. We’re dealing with new mutated ideologies and we’re trying to describe them using the definitions that were valid in the 50s. Actually it’s worse than that. We’re trying to describe them using the definitions that were valid in the 1930s.

    I’m struggling to find ways of defining what’s happening now. It’s difficult since so many people refuse to give up the definitions that seemed to work in the 1930s.

    It’s also difficult since so many people insist on pushing apparent similarities too far. The Chinese Cultural Revolution and the current Cultural Revolution are similar in the sense that they’re both top-down revolutions. But the objectives are entirely different.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  114. AKAHorace says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Can you give any examples of actual capitalist societies that you think are worth emulating ?

    The US of A, circa 1789 to 1985! Seriously? No good examples? That one was right under your nose, Horace.

    I don’t live in the US so this isn’t really under my nose, and what happened in 1985 to change things ?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  115. AKAHorace says:
    @Jack D

    But then we get to Chinese or some other language and it calls for an unaspirated initial P and we don’t know how make that sound or we see a P and we just aspirate it and it sounds wrong to a native speaker. Then we voice an English B and it’s still wrong. Somehow we have to make a sound that’s not quite an English P and not quite an English B and doesn’t really exist in English.

    For an English speaker the best way to write this sound is bp, likewise gk (for the first consonant in Kung Fu) and dt (for the first consonant in Taoism)

  116. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Can you give any examples of actual capitalist societies that you think are worth emulating ?

    The US of A, circa 1789 to 1985!

    That’s a fascinating choice of dates. It includes the whole era of New Deal Socialism. And the Great Society era. I thought those were eras of Evil Communism!

    If I might ask, why do you pick 1985 as your cut-off point? I thought Reagan was a disaster. You seem to be agreeing? Do you think the U.S. was better off under LBJ, Nixon and Carter than under Reagan and Bush the Elder?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  117. @AKAHorace

    It’s no reflection on you personally, Horace, but it’s very sad that that much of even the white world doesn’t know anything anymore about the freest country that ever existed in history (maybe that ever will).

    Yeah, I meant to write more and explain that rough date. It’s not anything specific to 1985, so sorry for the confusion on that. I may as well have said 1989 to make it an even 200 years. Some would say that US Feral Gov’t intrusions into real capitalism started 100 years back. I can’t argue with that, but there is a lot of ruin in a nation, so it takes a while. Really, in my awareness, the American Police State and over-regulation/over-taxation had killed capitalism by the mid-‘1990’s. See “When did the Feral Government get out of Control?”Part 1 and Part 2.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
  118. Mr. Anon says:
    @Dr. X

    So the effect is the same: the most outrageously left-wing set the tone.

  119. Dissident says:
    @Oddsbodkins

    On the question of homosexuality possibility being a genetic trait, I wish to present an excerpt from Camille Paglia, from a discussion she had with Jordan B. Peterson:

    As a consequence, there is a complete absence of any kind of analysis of your experiences as a child with your parents, with your siblings, and so on – how that might relate to your current sexual identity issues, whether it’s transgender or whether it’s homosexuality. You cannot ask about any genesis of homosexuality today, because that is automatically defined as ‘homophobic.’

    Well excuse me. As an openly gay person myself. . . Every gay person I know, there’s some story there, it seems to me, in childhood.
    […]
    The idea that homosexuality has nothing whatever to do with your family life is nonsense.

    Dissident says: Whether or not there may be some degree of genetic predisposition toward homosexuality, the idea that sexuality is never fluid; that one’s experiences and influences during one’s formative years of childhood and adolescence are never causative factors, is manifestly preposterous.

  120. @dfordoom

    See my reply to Horace, D. As I said in that one “there is a lot of ruin in a nation.” No, Reagan was no disaster except for his naive trust in the D-run Congress not to reneg on A) the amnesty for border control deal, and B) the more guns, but less butter deal. Well, they reneged on both. Congress spends the money – do you not put any of the blame there?

    The US was simply better that farther back you go (not counting during the wars and G.D. 1.0), just because it took a long time for the ruination of sound money and the Socialism to take full effect. Reagan was the only one of the presidents you listed to even PROMISE to turn some things around. Alas, it was not to be.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  121. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The US was simply better that farther back you go

    Yes, I’d agree with that. In fact that applies to every single western nation. Culturally, socially, politically there has been inexorable decline since the 19th century. We differ of course on the reasons for the decline – you blame socialism, I blame capitalism. But the decline cannot be denied.

    But my point with regard to things like the New Deal is that the U.S. has not been a pure capitalist country for a long long long time.

    It is certainly possible to point to lots of countries that were once very pleasant places in which to live but in every case the economic system included elements of both capitalism and socialism. They were what used to be called mixed economies. That’s a system that works very well – enough capitalism to provide some dynamism and enough socialism (things like the welfare state and government intervention in the economy) to prevent capitalism from getting out of hand and trashing society.

    Australia up to the late 1960s was pretty close to being an earthly paradise. Very low crime, no significant social tensions, a very high material standard of living, a high degree of national unity. I was there and it was pretty damned good. And Australia at that time had a mixed economy – capitalism combined with considerable government intervention in the economy, a welfare state, lots of government enterprises, high levels of government spending on infrastructure programs. It was not unlike what Americans refer to as New Deal Socialism. It worked. It worked extremely well. It worked in practice, not theory.

    I’ll reframe the earlier question. Can you point to an example of a successful pure libertarian state in the modern world? A successful modern state entirely free of socialism?

  122. @R.G. Camara

    Also, you should consider survivor bias. The Boomers who survived and did well enough to be visible are the only ones you observe. That’s not even close to the number of Boomers who were born. Essentially, the ones you see are those who sold US society for scrap at 10 cents on the dollar. Which makes them, perhaps, worse that you thought.

    Counterinsurgency

  123. @R.G. Camara

    Third reply:

    If you want to see the Boomers that didn’t make it to the present, I’d suggest the movie “Hamburger Hill” [1]. Right now (2019/09/12) it’s on Amazon Prime Video and on YouTube.com.
    The movie was, I’ve ready, heavily influenced by actual members of the 101st, and shows them the way they would like to remember themselves rather than the way they actually were — but that’s important. People try to approximate their ideals, and so the ideals in effect define the person. “Hamburger Hill” shows the Boomers that didn’t make it as they tried to be.

    For a self portrait of those who did, I’d suggest:
    “How my friends and I wrecked Pomona College” [2]

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093137/

    2] https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-my-friends-and-i-wrecked-pomona-college-14331.html

  124. @PabloPickAsso

    What about them? Do you want to be provided with a logical design / computer program that handles all cases?

    If so, where is your computer program that (I’m sure) will be provided to assess PabloPickAsso’s answer?

    Would you like to propose an answer to your own question?

    Or is your post just a time wasting quibble that doesn’t live up to the standards it attempts to impose?

    Counterinsurgency

  125. @Jack D

    in a sense these groups have been bought off cheaply – our cities are not burning.

    The universities were a chief strength of the West prior to c.a. AD 1960. The provided the people and the new discoveries / methods of thought that made the Enlightenment successful and carried the Industrial Revolution past its tinkering stage.
    That’s gone. That’s not a small cost, it’s a big one.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  126. @Ace

    Define “real revolution.”

    Make a contribution and define it yourself.

    Counterinsurgency

  127. @dfordoom

    Sure, no terms are defined, everything is just a semantic fog, and we are to wander about in it while you, not believing your own guff, execute a master plan. Old trick, very old [1], described by Thucydides.

    However — taking Thucydides at his word — there are two words that remain defined in the fog — friend and enemy. The problem with the old trick (and the master plan) is that a fair number of the people wandering in the fog are going to pick you for an enemy. That’s a reasonable description of what happened in the USSR and the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

    You’re sure that inducing the fog is a good idea?

    It’s also true that left wing activity in Eastern Europe and Spain, between the end of WW I and the start of WW II, was almost identical to the current activity of the Left in the US [2]. They now speak for different classes of the incompetent, but their tactics and their leadership by the half bright hasn’t changed. Payne’s book [2] briefly compares the Spanish Civil War to other revolutions in Europe during the WW I — WW II interval, and describes almost a taxonomy of differences and similarities. The current situation falls right into that taxonomy.

    Everything old is new again. Might be fun, but that doesn’t make it new.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] Thucydides.
    _The Peleponnesian War_
    c.a. 480 BC

    See also: https://minervawisdom.com/2019/02/25/corruption-of-language-and-morality-in-history-of-the-peloponnesian-war/

    2] Stanley G. Payne.
    _The Spanish Civil War_.
    Cambridge Press, 2012.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  128. @dfordoom

    The Chinese Cultural Revolution and the current Cultural Revolution are similar in the sense that they’re both top-down revolutions. But the objectives are entirely different.

    Simplify it enough and they are identical, in fact they are identical to pretty much every revolution since WW I.
    1. Start in a country with an upper class that has been dispossessed, and no longer believes in itself (US after WW II. Gilded Age Eastern Establishment displaced by the corporations and the Federal bureaucracy.).
    2. Find or make an organized group that wants to take control. Ideally, it would have been active for a long time and be homogeneous. (Woodward’s regions — New Netherlands and Yankeedom [1]). use this group to establish sympathizers in the government “intelligentsia” [2].
    3 Find a mob somewhere. (Failed Black settlements in urban region. Previous connections with Yankeedom, useful to New Netherlands and other urban areas that had just lost their economic base thanks to containerization and the Interstate system. Jewish establishment in NYC, apprehensive from catastrophic failure of Jewish strategy over the preceding century.)
    3. Sic these mobs on the failed upper class and the government bureaucracy (1968 MLK riots in NYC,Washington DC, other large urban areas [3], but more precisely targeted.[5]).
    4. Cement, through propaganda and demonstrations of ready rioters, the idea that riots can recur, that you can “make the wheels run backwards” whenever you want, and in fact would prefer to due to personal animosity against the group being threatened.

    At this point, you have escalation dominance.

    5. Extend government infiltration using escalation dominance. (1968-Obama administration)
    6. Prove your group is unable to govern. Become more reliant on finding new mobs of incompetents as your policy destroys your original groups. (In process)
    7. Be forced from government when you can’t meet payroll. (TBD)

    You can chart just about every Western revolution since the French Revolution using this outline.

    In fact, if you don’t use this outline, you get hopelessly lost in the fantastic lies that are told to the most recent new group being recruited [5] into the support coalition of the current establishment. Those lies amount to a plausible version of anything that the new group wants to hear, and they can be disorienting if you try to fit them into a coherent account of the world.

    The Revolutions of 1848 failed because, unlike the French king, the new governments withdrew out of range of the city mobs, told them that they could burn their cities to the bare brick and starve if that’s what they really wanted to do, and then moved in to pick up the pieces after the smoke cleared a bit and the survivors figured out what “revolution” really means.

    That might work today, and not because it would be used deliberately. The urban areas are utility failure disasters waiting to happen, are too big to evacuate even if everybody acted well, and are very unlikely to act well. 1848 disaster all over again, but this time because of inability rather than a decision.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] http://www.colinwoodard.com/files/ColinWoodard_AmericanNations_map.pdf
    2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligentsia
    3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_assassination_riots
    4] https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/protests-at-democratic-national-convention-in-chicago
    5] Sample lie:

    1] http://www.colinwoodard.com/files/ColinWoodard_AmericanNations_map.pdf

  129. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Counterinsurgency

    The universities were a chief strength of the West prior to c.a. AD 1960. The provided the people and the new discoveries / methods of thought that made the Enlightenment successful

    Which just shows that universities have been a menace for a very long time.

  130. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Counterinsurgency

    You’re sure that inducing the fog is a good idea?

    I didn’t induce the fog.

    It’s also true that left wing activity in Eastern Europe and Spain, between the end of WW I and the start of WW II, was almost identical to the current activity of the Left in the US

    Are you seriously suggesting that the “Left” and the “Right” of today are basically the same as the “Left” and the “Right” of a hundred years ago? Even though the Left of a hundred years ago was anti-capitalist and the Left of today is pro-capitalist?

    They now speak for different classes of the incompetent

    You do realise that that is a fundamental difference?

    The current Left is conservative – their aim is to ensure that the current elites remain in power and that their power is not challenged in any way. Are you sure I’m the one trying to induce the fog?

    By the way, your charming characterisation of the working class as just another bunch of incompetents is very revealing.

  131. AKAHorace says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    So you are talking about a gradual process and 1985 is an approximate date ?

    I agree with you about “the Newt”. I am a Canadian Social Democrat (NDP) and the same sort of thing happened to our side. The NDP used to be concerned about public debt, you cannot have a social democratic system in the long term if the govt is spending more than it takes in. In the 80s and 90s this was lost as the movement became more interested in telling the electorate whatever it wanted to hear in the short term. I think that Gringrich is the same sort of figure on your side.

    Thanks for your considered reply.

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