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From the New York Post:

New York clinical trial testing heartburn medication as coronavirus treatment
By Carl Campanile and Tamar Lapin April 26, 2020 | 8:34pm | Updated

A clinical trial is under way at major New York hospitals to test the efficacy of heartburn medications such as Pepcid, in combination with the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine, on coronavirus patients, The Post has learned.

… Researchers are trying to find out whether famotidine — the active compound in the over-the-counter heartburn drug Pepcid — acts as an inhibitor of COVID-19, similar to the way certain drugs block the replication of HIV/AIDS. …

This idea came out of data-mining in China where it was noticed that poor peasants who had their heartburn treated with non-prescription Pepcid-like pills died only half as much as rich folk with heartburn who had a prescription for the state-of-the-art pharmaeutical.

The researchers initially wanted to test famotidine on its own, but with so many patients now being treated with hydroxychloroquine, they wouldn’t have had enough test subjects, they told Science Magazine, which first reported the study.

Exactly how much is hydroxychloroquine being used anyway? …

Hydroxychloroquine has been touted as a promising treatment by President Trump and some doctors and patients, though the preliminary results of some local studies found no benefit.

And why does the rate of hydroxychloroquine use seem to be a secret? Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.

 
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  1. They’ll have to hold off on that until the pharmaceutical companies can come up with a more expensive alternative.

  2. Shit man the best cure for heartburn is Baking Soda , Don’t let them sell a pill .

    And now for something completely different :

    • Replies: @Kim
    @donut

    An excellent and very cheap cure for indigestion is papaya seed, most effective if fresh, but can also be dried in the sun and kept.

    The active ingredient is the enzyme "papaine" which is involved in the breakdown and digestion of protein.

    There are a couple of reasons people may not be naturally producing enough of this digestive enzyme:

    1) Low levels of stomach acid. the gall bladder will not produce enzymes until the stomach contains an adequate level of HCl (hydrochloric acid). If you have chronic indigestion, it may be low stomach acid. A course of over-the-counter Betaine HCl can solve that problem.

    2) Ageing. like so much else, enzyme production may slow with aging. Papaya seed, fresh or dried, (and fresh pineapple too, as it contains the enzyme protease) with protein meals can help this problem a lot.

    Replies: @Kudzu Bob

  3. A good use of data mining techniques, we need more of that.

    Big pharma won’t like it at all if Hydroxychloroquine plus zinc plus famotidine or some similar combo turns out to be more effective than remdesivir.

  4. Anon[281] • Disclaimer says:

    Famotidine, which is in Pepcid, is a histamine blocker. It’s anti-allergy medicine. Presumably it works by tamping down your immune system reaction, so it helps prevent a cytokine storm that overwhelms your organs and fills your lungs with fluid.

    If a plain old histamine blocker works, over-the-counter antihistamines for seasonal respiratory allergies of just about any sort should work.

    I was just reading about how some people who get food stuck in their esophagus due to an esophageal spasm tend to have white blood cells in the lining of their esophagus, as if they’re having an allergic reaction. Heartburn may be in some cases just an allergic reaction to food.

    So Covid-19 is killing some people by giving them a violent allergic reaction?

    Histamine-2 blocker list:

    https://www.drugs.com/drug-class/h2-antagonists.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon

    Steve eta al:

    ER docs and Allergists have intraveneously given my child Zantac or Pepcid as an adjunct to Benadryl several times in the last decade when he has had anaphylaxis due to food allergies. It aids in tamping down immune system. Probably one of the ways to combat cytokines going haywire. So this is known in Allergy and Immunology practice.

    Thx

  5. Ranitidine was taken off the shelves a while back, leaving us with famotidine. The latter didn’t work very long for me. For heartburn, that is. Perhaps not even for coronavirus. I got terribly sick in February, not long after the famo.

    Has anybody checked results in those countries where ranitidine is still legal?

  6. Blow Daddy .

    She’s alright :

  7. Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.

    Extrapolating from the antibody tests that have been performed, as many as 12% of the people in New York have had the virus. Most weren’t even aware of it. Taking those numbers into account, the death rate is very, very low.

    • Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    @prosa123

    But hospitalization rates are half what they expected. I suspect many were able to obtain HCQ and zinc and took the drug to avoid being hospitalized

    Prescriptions for HCQ and chloroquine in NY were up 3,000 percent in the month of March , before the governor banned it. Thousands of Americans were able to take Hydrochloroquine or Quinine when they got sick , which helped them avoid going to the hospital.

    This could explain why only 2% of those infected with Coronavirus have been hospitalized , when they had predicted a hospitalization rate of 10%. HCQ works best when taken early , so it may have saved thousands of lives and kept the hospital beds empty.

    , @Travis
    @prosa123

    more likely 20% of New Yorkers have the virus, as 15% of New Yorkers had antibodies to the virus last week and it typically takes 10-20 days to develop antibodies. The best antibody test developed will fail to detect antibodies in 15% of recovered CV patients and many CV patients never develop any antibodies (they can defeat CV with their innate immune system)

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86084
    After weeks of tweaking their own ELISA assay, Columbia researchers say they've managed to bring its sensitivity to 85% -- -That means that 15% of the patients who were confirmed infected with COVID-19 by molecular testing were negative by this assay 2 to 3 weeks later.

    an estimated 4,000,000 New Yorkers have already contracted CV and 99% of them never required hospitalization. The CDC models had predicted that 8-10% would be hospitalized, but Many who stayed home were able to get hydrocchloroquine from their doctors to reduce the load on the hospitals. Many more took quinine and other drugs to avoid being hospitalized. Chris Cuomo and his wife took quinine to help recover at home.

  8. Oxyquarkaline shows promise. Not for COVID-19 (Kohoutek-2020) but for pretty much everything else anyone wants to prescribe it for, including foot odor.

    So does ramaprozidine, but oxyquarkaline has proven to be .01% more effective than placebo, whereas ramaprozidine causes blindness and flatulence and actually doesn’t do anything else.

    Soon there will be television commercials for oxyquarkaline, followed by lawfirm commericials for female patients who want to sue after using it while shoveling baby powder up their woo woos.

    • Thanks: Inverness
    • LOL: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Buzz Mohawk

    If you are feeling unwell, you may have illness. Ask your doctor about........medicine.

    (side-effects of medicine may include headache, heartburn, hives, itching, nausea, diarrhea, rectal bleeding, impotence, and death)

    Replies: @Anon

  9. Anon[386] • Disclaimer says:

    Pepcid also contains magnesium. Here’s a study that says rats can get an exaggerated immune response if they’re magnesium deficient.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002432059800455X

    Here’s another paper on magnesium and cytokine response in rats. “During the progression of Mg deficiency in a rodent model, we have observed dramatic increases in serum levels of inflammatory cytokines.”

    https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajpregu.1992.263.3.r734

    I think it’s the magnesium in the Pepcid that’s helping prevent the cytokine storms of Covid-19, not just the histamine 2 blocker.

    Magnesium is known to make Vitamin D more bioactive, and you need Vitamin D for proper immune system function.

    Pill up, people pill up. Magnesium is readily available. I’ve been taking a magnesium supplement for the past decade, and I’ve only been sick once in that time that I can recall.

    • Replies: @Aj7575
    @Anon

    What is your dose?

    Also, many people report long term supplementation as giving them brain fog.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @HA
    @Anon

    "Magnesium is readily available. I’ve been taking a magnesium supplement for the past decade, and I’ve only been sick once in that time that I can recall."

    Be very careful. Cheaper calcium and magnesium supplements -- such as those mined from dolomite -- can have unhealthy levels of lead, especially when it comes to long-term usage.


    A high manganese content gives the [dolomite] crystals a rosy pink color. Lead, zinc, and cobalt also substitute in the structure for magnesium.
     
    Cobalt probably doesn't help you all that much either.

    Replies: @Anon

  10. Are you going to be difficult Sailer ?

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    @donut

    There is some joke here but I don't have any idea what it is. Someone please tell me. Actually this guy has a good voice and can sing. But. He needs to learn how to sing diphthongs.

    Replies: @donut, @donut

  11. This idea came out of data-mining in China where it was noticed that poor peasants who had their heartburn treated with non-prescription Pepcid-like pills died only half as much as rich folk with heartburn who had a prescription for the state-of-the-art pharmaeutical.

    The real reason is that people with heartburn weren’t eating bats and pangolins.

  12. @Buzz Mohawk
    Oxyquarkaline shows promise. Not for COVID-19 (Kohoutek-2020) but for pretty much everything else anyone wants to prescribe it for, including foot odor.

    So does ramaprozidine, but oxyquarkaline has proven to be .01% more effective than placebo, whereas ramaprozidine causes blindness and flatulence and actually doesn't do anything else.

    Soon there will be television commercials for oxyquarkaline, followed by lawfirm commericials for female patients who want to sue after using it while shoveling baby powder up their woo woos.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    If you are feeling unwell, you may have illness. Ask your doctor about……..medicine.

    (side-effects of medicine may include headache, heartburn, hives, itching, nausea, diarrhea, rectal bleeding, impotence, and death)

    • Thanks: Inverness
    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Mr. Anon

    And suicidal thoughts.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  13. Here in New Jersey almost all the hospitalized patients are getting HCQ , but you cannot obtain the drug until you have been confirmed to have CV via a positive test. This delays the treatment a few days.

    Even the first CV patient in New Jersey received chloroquine back before Trump ever mentioned the drug. A NY post article about his treatment crediting chloroquine was published in the NY Post back on March 11 , more than week before Trump mentioned the drug.

  14. This virus is so easy to defeat if treated rapidly, just a few glasses of Tonic water and some zinc lozenges will cure the vast majority of CV cases. To make sure it is treated quickly I switched from drinking beer to having a few vodka tonics each night just to be safe , as a preventative I also smoke a cigar each evening for the nicotine and take vitamin D. So far it has been working for me, no infections living here in the hotspot of Northern New Jersey surrounded by people infected with Coronavirus.

    Thankfully the kids are immune from CV. We still let our children play with the neighborhood kids outside. Last week a neighbor called the cops because they were playing with some friends outside, funny seeing the police explain to my 7 year-old son why he needs to maintain distance from his best friend , they were playing soccer outside as I watched from the window. Thankfully the cop allowed them to continue playing.

    • Replies: @Obamahotep
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    I'm sorry friend but you are falling for some fucked up science there. Quinine is useless unless you combine it with the catalytic and cataclysmic properties of gin (genever falldownalotus). Heal thyself!

  15. “Exactly how much is hydroxychloroquine being used anyway?”

    On a sports talk show, former PIT QB Terry Hanratty (mostly a backup to HOF PIT QB Terry Bradshaw) discussed his recent six week bout with COVID-19, and a few things emerged.

    1. He is now 100% recovered from COVID-19

    2. At NO point in time in the hospital was he hooked up to a ventilator

    3. He used the drug hydroxychloroquine, and credits it in large part to his total recovery from COVID-19

    Hanratty is aged 74.

    It would be an irony if one of the few positives in the fight vs. COVID-19 would be hydroxochloroquine, and especially as it was publicly and quite loudly touted by President Trump as a drug to effectively treat COVID-19. Suppose it turns out that Trump’s advice that the medical profession should publicly prescribe hydroxychloroquine as an effective treatment to the virus is indeed the correct thing to do?

    How would the MSM deal with that knowledge?

    Terry Hanratty. Fully recovered from COVID-19, and credits it to hydroxychloroquine.

  16. Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.

    TLDR: Something’s rotten in NYC hospitals well beyond whether hydroxychloroquine is being used or not.

    i think there’s a high chance investigations will eventually show
    a) a lot of preventable death and suffering in NYC

    b) bureaucratic and managerial ineptitude in the city’s emergency response and at least some hospitals. Esp wrt getting nurses to places where they were needed and making sure nurses and nurse assistants actually worked rather than hiding. This comes up again and again.

    c) banning family from hospitals enabled a lot of the neglect since patients no longer had anyone to advocate for them. This last point i think normally prevents a lot of the worst outcomes and when that safety net was removed all sorts of bad behaviors and dynamics emerged.

    [MORE]

    There seem to be numerous independent reports of neglect in nursing homes, including City run ones, and in at least some hospitals.

    I’m one of those people who forgets that systems and people who are barely adequate in normal times DON’T tend to rise to the occasion in emergencies… they collapse instead.

    This is a Gothamist piece from nearly there weeks ago about significant neglect in nursing homes for to lack of staffing in NYC. (https://gothamist.com/news/neglect-death-in-nys-nursing-homes-theyre-laying-there-rotting )
    It covers several different facilities including City run ones.

    A commenter @Bert posted this video deep in the Chicago thread yesterday. It makes unverifiable but, imo, quite credible sounding claims of bad care in an unnamed NYC hospital. the video her linked was taken down by YT for some reason so here’s the Daily Mail article about it (it a pretty poor write up but the video is worth watching)
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-York-claims-city-killing-COVID-19-patients-putting-ventilators.html#article-8262351

    I’ll link to my response too just because it’s another example of this “idle nurses in one place, seriously neglected patients in a nearby place” issue:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/chicago/#comment-3864265

    I’ll stop flogging this for now, but i really hope some credible investigations are done once things settle down.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @vhrm


    TLDR: Something’s rotten in NYC hospitals well beyond whether hydroxychloroquine is being used or not.
     
    It's obvious that NYC is gaming the numbers as much as possible to keep the hysteria ongoing.

    "We, uh, ventilated some folks."

    , @Jack D
    @vhrm

    The hospital system was not the only system that broke down in NY:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8271735/Dozens-bodies-stored-U-Haul-trucks-outside-Brooklyn-funeral-home.html

    A crowded, diverse city of millions like NY barely functions on a good day so it doesn't take much to push it over the edge into chaos.

    I am waiting for our food supply system to break down because apparently union agitators have been telling food processing employees to stay home. A lot of business that have closed are having trouble getting their work force to come back because people are making more money on unemployment than they would if they started working again. If you are a meat eater and have room in your freezer, I suggest that you stock up now.

    A few years ago I bought a vacuum sealer (I thought I would use it for sous vide but I ended up not using it much and it mainly gathered dust) but it has found new use. Vacuum sealing food really does improve its keeping quality in the freezer. So add one of these devices (and a roll of vacuum sealing plastic) to your CV shopping list.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @vhrm

    Interesting links. Thanks for posting.

    I was especially struck by the claim that many of the nurses were inadvertantly infecting people with their contaminated PPE, and ignoring patients in need, all while getting high on the "thank our health-care heroes" propaganda.

    New York and New Jersey have been ordering nursing homes to accept recovering COVID-19 patients. These people are likely still infected and so can infect others.

    Most of the worst-affected areas have semi-third-world conditions; first-world materiel and third-world personnel.

    A lot of the deaths due to this pandemic will have been found to be due to incompetence, inattention, group-think, and medical malpractice.

    , @Polynikes
    @vhrm

    I think it was last week that it came out that official NY state policy was to put infected elderly back into the nursing homes and to try and contain it there.

    That was well past the point that we knew that it was contagious and damaging to the elderly and that most of the problems were in these elderly assisted living homes.

    That is a complete failure of policy and borderline criminal, in my opinion.

  17. @Anon
    Pepcid also contains magnesium. Here's a study that says rats can get an exaggerated immune response if they're magnesium deficient.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002432059800455X

    Here's another paper on magnesium and cytokine response in rats. "During the progression of Mg deficiency in a rodent model, we have observed dramatic increases in serum levels of inflammatory cytokines."

    https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajpregu.1992.263.3.r734

    I think it's the magnesium in the Pepcid that's helping prevent the cytokine storms of Covid-19, not just the histamine 2 blocker.

    Magnesium is known to make Vitamin D more bioactive, and you need Vitamin D for proper immune system function.

    Pill up, people pill up. Magnesium is readily available. I've been taking a magnesium supplement for the past decade, and I've only been sick once in that time that I can recall.

    Replies: @Aj7575, @HA

    What is your dose?

    Also, many people report long term supplementation as giving them brain fog.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Aj7575


    Also, many people report long term supplementation as giving them brain fog.
     
    Long term supplementation generally, or just with magnesium?
  18. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Famotidine, which is in Pepcid, is a histamine blocker. It's anti-allergy medicine. Presumably it works by tamping down your immune system reaction, so it helps prevent a cytokine storm that overwhelms your organs and fills your lungs with fluid.

    If a plain old histamine blocker works, over-the-counter antihistamines for seasonal respiratory allergies of just about any sort should work.

    I was just reading about how some people who get food stuck in their esophagus due to an esophageal spasm tend to have white blood cells in the lining of their esophagus, as if they're having an allergic reaction. Heartburn may be in some cases just an allergic reaction to food.

    So Covid-19 is killing some people by giving them a violent allergic reaction?

    Histamine-2 blocker list:

    https://www.drugs.com/drug-class/h2-antagonists.html

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Steve eta al:

    ER docs and Allergists have intraveneously given my child Zantac or Pepcid as an adjunct to Benadryl several times in the last decade when he has had anaphylaxis due to food allergies. It aids in tamping down immune system. Probably one of the ways to combat cytokines going haywire. So this is known in Allergy and Immunology practice.

    Thx

  19. @vhrm

    Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.
     
    TLDR: Something's rotten in NYC hospitals well beyond whether hydroxychloroquine is being used or not.

    i think there's a high chance investigations will eventually show
    a) a lot of preventable death and suffering in NYC

    b) bureaucratic and managerial ineptitude in the city's emergency response and at least some hospitals. Esp wrt getting nurses to places where they were needed and making sure nurses and nurse assistants actually worked rather than hiding. This comes up again and again.

    c) banning family from hospitals enabled a lot of the neglect since patients no longer had anyone to advocate for them. This last point i think normally prevents a lot of the worst outcomes and when that safety net was removed all sorts of bad behaviors and dynamics emerged.


    There seem to be numerous independent reports of neglect in nursing homes, including City run ones, and in at least some hospitals.

    I'm one of those people who forgets that systems and people who are barely adequate in normal times DON'T tend to rise to the occasion in emergencies... they collapse instead.

    This is a Gothamist piece from nearly there weeks ago about significant neglect in nursing homes for to lack of staffing in NYC. (https://gothamist.com/news/neglect-death-in-nys-nursing-homes-theyre-laying-there-rotting )
    It covers several different facilities including City run ones.

    A commenter @Bert posted this video deep in the Chicago thread yesterday. It makes unverifiable but, imo, quite credible sounding claims of bad care in an unnamed NYC hospital. the video her linked was taken down by YT for some reason so here's the Daily Mail article about it (it a pretty poor write up but the video is worth watching)
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-York-claims-city-killing-COVID-19-patients-putting-ventilators.html#article-8262351

    I'll link to my response too just because it's another example of this "idle nurses in one place, seriously neglected patients in a nearby place" issue:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/chicago/#comment-3864265

    I'll stop flogging this for now, but i really hope some credible investigations are done once things settle down.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Polynikes

    TLDR: Something’s rotten in NYC hospitals well beyond whether hydroxychloroquine is being used or not.

    It’s obvious that NYC is gaming the numbers as much as possible to keep the hysteria ongoing.

    “We, uh, ventilated some folks.”

  20. 400 mg of magnesium a day is good, but it’s best in two doses of 200. Adjust downwards if it gives you stomach problems. I’ve never heard of magnesium causing brain fog. It’s good for regulating your blood sugar, which increases mental clarity.

  21. @vhrm

    Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.
     
    TLDR: Something's rotten in NYC hospitals well beyond whether hydroxychloroquine is being used or not.

    i think there's a high chance investigations will eventually show
    a) a lot of preventable death and suffering in NYC

    b) bureaucratic and managerial ineptitude in the city's emergency response and at least some hospitals. Esp wrt getting nurses to places where they were needed and making sure nurses and nurse assistants actually worked rather than hiding. This comes up again and again.

    c) banning family from hospitals enabled a lot of the neglect since patients no longer had anyone to advocate for them. This last point i think normally prevents a lot of the worst outcomes and when that safety net was removed all sorts of bad behaviors and dynamics emerged.


    There seem to be numerous independent reports of neglect in nursing homes, including City run ones, and in at least some hospitals.

    I'm one of those people who forgets that systems and people who are barely adequate in normal times DON'T tend to rise to the occasion in emergencies... they collapse instead.

    This is a Gothamist piece from nearly there weeks ago about significant neglect in nursing homes for to lack of staffing in NYC. (https://gothamist.com/news/neglect-death-in-nys-nursing-homes-theyre-laying-there-rotting )
    It covers several different facilities including City run ones.

    A commenter @Bert posted this video deep in the Chicago thread yesterday. It makes unverifiable but, imo, quite credible sounding claims of bad care in an unnamed NYC hospital. the video her linked was taken down by YT for some reason so here's the Daily Mail article about it (it a pretty poor write up but the video is worth watching)
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-York-claims-city-killing-COVID-19-patients-putting-ventilators.html#article-8262351

    I'll link to my response too just because it's another example of this "idle nurses in one place, seriously neglected patients in a nearby place" issue:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/chicago/#comment-3864265

    I'll stop flogging this for now, but i really hope some credible investigations are done once things settle down.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Polynikes

    The hospital system was not the only system that broke down in NY:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8271735/Dozens-bodies-stored-U-Haul-trucks-outside-Brooklyn-funeral-home.html

    A crowded, diverse city of millions like NY barely functions on a good day so it doesn’t take much to push it over the edge into chaos.

    I am waiting for our food supply system to break down because apparently union agitators have been telling food processing employees to stay home. A lot of business that have closed are having trouble getting their work force to come back because people are making more money on unemployment than they would if they started working again. If you are a meat eater and have room in your freezer, I suggest that you stock up now.

    A few years ago I bought a vacuum sealer (I thought I would use it for sous vide but I ended up not using it much and it mainly gathered dust) but it has found new use. Vacuum sealing food really does improve its keeping quality in the freezer. So add one of these devices (and a roll of vacuum sealing plastic) to your CV shopping list.

  22. I remember needing a Stress Test because of chest pains. Cartiologist “cured” my heart problems with a script for Pepcid AC, which was once a prescription drug. Good stuff and now OTC.

  23. It’s not that H2 blockers are therapeutic, it’s that PPIs (proton pump inhibitors) are bad for you.

    After more than a decade of passing out Prilosec like candy we figured out that it does all kinds of nasty things like mess with mineral metabolism and increases infection rates.

    Yep, we already know that PPIs increase your chances of getting pneumonia. Not sure why anyone would think that Zantac would be a treatment, how about not putting people on Protonix?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Esquimau


    After more than a decade of passing out Prilosec like candy we figured out that it does all kinds of nasty things like mess with mineral metabolism and increases infection rates.
     
    I used to get frequent acid-reflux. Tried Prilosec once - it did such a number on my innards that I never took it again. Something that interferes with normal gut-function like PPIs do can't be good for you. A better thing to do is figure out what's causing your acid-reflux, and modify your diet and habits accordingly. For occasional relief, you can take an antacid like Tums, which is pretty innocuous.

    Replies: @Kim

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Esquimau

    What's wrong with Protonix?

    Replies: @Anonymous

  24. In the case of persons made so sick by coronavirus as to require hospitalization — mostly the elderly with a foot in the grave and the younger folk suffering serious chronic disease — it’s unlikely medication, or vaccine, will save all of them, or even many of them.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Jonathan Silber

    Jonathan, The Buffalo News features a death a day (well not quite) story of someone who has succumbed to COVID-19. Headline a couple of nights ago reads "Long time Akron (NY) high school teacher and coach dies from COVID-19." Couple hundred words into the story they mention that he was 92. Last night it was the story of a biker who was a PI and died at age 53. Photo with story picture a man who is morbidly obese. And since the stories come from the families and not the medical field, which is restricted by HIPPA Laws, who really knows what they died from. Stay safe.

    , @Jack D
    @Jonathan Silber

    It's really too soon to say this. The medical system has been handing out bad advice and giving the wrong (or no) treatments to the infected.

    Part of this was just because it was a novel disease and they didn't know how to treat it, but part of it was based upon expediency. They thought that the medical system would be overwhelmed, so they encouraged people NOT to go to the hospital until they were really really sick. Yes, if you come into the hospital and the disease has already largely destroyed your lungs, there's not going to be much that the medical system can do for you - the damage is done already. Taking anti-virals, ventilating you, whatever, it's not going to help anymore because treatment was delayed too long. This is why a lot of the trials of anti-viral drugs are not going that well. You really need to give anti-virals at an early stage of a viral disease (sometimes even before you have the disease) and they have been trying them on people with well established infections.

    However, now that the initial panic has subsided, testing has become more available, people are buying pulse oximeters and more effective treatments and better protocols seem to be emerging, they are going to be able to save an increasing % of even the old and vulnerable. Instead of waiting a week until you are short of breath, people will see their doctors within a day or two of any sort of flu-like symptoms and they will be given anti-virals and oxygen and survival rates will go up considerably. Those on their last legs will still receive the shove that will push many of them over the precipice into the Great Beyond but those who were in slightly better shape will make it more often.

  25. @vhrm

    Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.
     
    TLDR: Something's rotten in NYC hospitals well beyond whether hydroxychloroquine is being used or not.

    i think there's a high chance investigations will eventually show
    a) a lot of preventable death and suffering in NYC

    b) bureaucratic and managerial ineptitude in the city's emergency response and at least some hospitals. Esp wrt getting nurses to places where they were needed and making sure nurses and nurse assistants actually worked rather than hiding. This comes up again and again.

    c) banning family from hospitals enabled a lot of the neglect since patients no longer had anyone to advocate for them. This last point i think normally prevents a lot of the worst outcomes and when that safety net was removed all sorts of bad behaviors and dynamics emerged.


    There seem to be numerous independent reports of neglect in nursing homes, including City run ones, and in at least some hospitals.

    I'm one of those people who forgets that systems and people who are barely adequate in normal times DON'T tend to rise to the occasion in emergencies... they collapse instead.

    This is a Gothamist piece from nearly there weeks ago about significant neglect in nursing homes for to lack of staffing in NYC. (https://gothamist.com/news/neglect-death-in-nys-nursing-homes-theyre-laying-there-rotting )
    It covers several different facilities including City run ones.

    A commenter @Bert posted this video deep in the Chicago thread yesterday. It makes unverifiable but, imo, quite credible sounding claims of bad care in an unnamed NYC hospital. the video her linked was taken down by YT for some reason so here's the Daily Mail article about it (it a pretty poor write up but the video is worth watching)
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-York-claims-city-killing-COVID-19-patients-putting-ventilators.html#article-8262351

    I'll link to my response too just because it's another example of this "idle nurses in one place, seriously neglected patients in a nearby place" issue:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/chicago/#comment-3864265

    I'll stop flogging this for now, but i really hope some credible investigations are done once things settle down.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Polynikes

    Interesting links. Thanks for posting.

    I was especially struck by the claim that many of the nurses were inadvertantly infecting people with their contaminated PPE, and ignoring patients in need, all while getting high on the “thank our health-care heroes” propaganda.

    New York and New Jersey have been ordering nursing homes to accept recovering COVID-19 patients. These people are likely still infected and so can infect others.

    Most of the worst-affected areas have semi-third-world conditions; first-world materiel and third-world personnel.

    A lot of the deaths due to this pandemic will have been found to be due to incompetence, inattention, group-think, and medical malpractice.

  26. @Esquimau
    It’s not that H2 blockers are therapeutic, it’s that PPIs (proton pump inhibitors) are bad for you.

    After more than a decade of passing out Prilosec like candy we figured out that it does all kinds of nasty things like mess with mineral metabolism and increases infection rates.

    Yep, we already know that PPIs increase your chances of getting pneumonia. Not sure why anyone would think that Zantac would be a treatment, how about not putting people on Protonix?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Mr. Hack

    After more than a decade of passing out Prilosec like candy we figured out that it does all kinds of nasty things like mess with mineral metabolism and increases infection rates.

    I used to get frequent acid-reflux. Tried Prilosec once – it did such a number on my innards that I never took it again. Something that interferes with normal gut-function like PPIs do can’t be good for you. A better thing to do is figure out what’s causing your acid-reflux, and modify your diet and habits accordingly. For occasional relief, you can take an antacid like Tums, which is pretty innocuous.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Kim
    @Mr. Anon

    You may like to consider the advice that I offer above. Few people have too much stomach acid. The opposite is usually the case. So an antacid may be exactly the opposite of what you need. Cheers.

  27. @Aj7575
    @Anon

    What is your dose?

    Also, many people report long term supplementation as giving them brain fog.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Also, many people report long term supplementation as giving them brain fog.

    Long term supplementation generally, or just with magnesium?

  28. @Jonathan Silber
    In the case of persons made so sick by coronavirus as to require hospitalization -- mostly the elderly with a foot in the grave and the younger folk suffering serious chronic disease -- it's unlikely medication, or vaccine, will save all of them, or even many of them.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Jack D

    Jonathan, The Buffalo News features a death a day (well not quite) story of someone who has succumbed to COVID-19. Headline a couple of nights ago reads “Long time Akron (NY) high school teacher and coach dies from COVID-19.” Couple hundred words into the story they mention that he was 92. Last night it was the story of a biker who was a PI and died at age 53. Photo with story picture a man who is morbidly obese. And since the stories come from the families and not the medical field, which is restricted by HIPPA Laws, who really knows what they died from. Stay safe.

  29. @Jonathan Silber
    In the case of persons made so sick by coronavirus as to require hospitalization -- mostly the elderly with a foot in the grave and the younger folk suffering serious chronic disease -- it's unlikely medication, or vaccine, will save all of them, or even many of them.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Jack D

    It’s really too soon to say this. The medical system has been handing out bad advice and giving the wrong (or no) treatments to the infected.

    Part of this was just because it was a novel disease and they didn’t know how to treat it, but part of it was based upon expediency. They thought that the medical system would be overwhelmed, so they encouraged people NOT to go to the hospital until they were really really sick. Yes, if you come into the hospital and the disease has already largely destroyed your lungs, there’s not going to be much that the medical system can do for you – the damage is done already. Taking anti-virals, ventilating you, whatever, it’s not going to help anymore because treatment was delayed too long. This is why a lot of the trials of anti-viral drugs are not going that well. You really need to give anti-virals at an early stage of a viral disease (sometimes even before you have the disease) and they have been trying them on people with well established infections.

    However, now that the initial panic has subsided, testing has become more available, people are buying pulse oximeters and more effective treatments and better protocols seem to be emerging, they are going to be able to save an increasing % of even the old and vulnerable. Instead of waiting a week until you are short of breath, people will see their doctors within a day or two of any sort of flu-like symptoms and they will be given anti-virals and oxygen and survival rates will go up considerably. Those on their last legs will still receive the shove that will push many of them over the precipice into the Great Beyond but those who were in slightly better shape will make it more often.

  30. HA says:
    @Anon
    Pepcid also contains magnesium. Here's a study that says rats can get an exaggerated immune response if they're magnesium deficient.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002432059800455X

    Here's another paper on magnesium and cytokine response in rats. "During the progression of Mg deficiency in a rodent model, we have observed dramatic increases in serum levels of inflammatory cytokines."

    https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajpregu.1992.263.3.r734

    I think it's the magnesium in the Pepcid that's helping prevent the cytokine storms of Covid-19, not just the histamine 2 blocker.

    Magnesium is known to make Vitamin D more bioactive, and you need Vitamin D for proper immune system function.

    Pill up, people pill up. Magnesium is readily available. I've been taking a magnesium supplement for the past decade, and I've only been sick once in that time that I can recall.

    Replies: @Aj7575, @HA

    “Magnesium is readily available. I’ve been taking a magnesium supplement for the past decade, and I’ve only been sick once in that time that I can recall.”

    Be very careful. Cheaper calcium and magnesium supplements — such as those mined from dolomite — can have unhealthy levels of lead, especially when it comes to long-term usage.

    A high manganese content gives the [dolomite] crystals a rosy pink color. Lead, zinc, and cobalt also substitute in the structure for magnesium.

    Cobalt probably doesn’t help you all that much either.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @HA

    This is fear-mongering. You're not supposed to take gardening supplies, for God's sake. That's akin to imbibing fish tank cleaner. Supplements for people are not the same.

    Replies: @HA

  31. @prosa123
    Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.

    Extrapolating from the antibody tests that have been performed, as many as 12% of the people in New York have had the virus. Most weren't even aware of it. Taking those numbers into account, the death rate is very, very low.

    Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco, @Travis

    But hospitalization rates are half what they expected. I suspect many were able to obtain HCQ and zinc and took the drug to avoid being hospitalized

    Prescriptions for HCQ and chloroquine in NY were up 3,000 percent in the month of March , before the governor banned it. Thousands of Americans were able to take Hydrochloroquine or Quinine when they got sick , which helped them avoid going to the hospital.

    This could explain why only 2% of those infected with Coronavirus have been hospitalized , when they had predicted a hospitalization rate of 10%. HCQ works best when taken early , so it may have saved thousands of lives and kept the hospital beds empty.

  32. @vhrm

    Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.
     
    TLDR: Something's rotten in NYC hospitals well beyond whether hydroxychloroquine is being used or not.

    i think there's a high chance investigations will eventually show
    a) a lot of preventable death and suffering in NYC

    b) bureaucratic and managerial ineptitude in the city's emergency response and at least some hospitals. Esp wrt getting nurses to places where they were needed and making sure nurses and nurse assistants actually worked rather than hiding. This comes up again and again.

    c) banning family from hospitals enabled a lot of the neglect since patients no longer had anyone to advocate for them. This last point i think normally prevents a lot of the worst outcomes and when that safety net was removed all sorts of bad behaviors and dynamics emerged.


    There seem to be numerous independent reports of neglect in nursing homes, including City run ones, and in at least some hospitals.

    I'm one of those people who forgets that systems and people who are barely adequate in normal times DON'T tend to rise to the occasion in emergencies... they collapse instead.

    This is a Gothamist piece from nearly there weeks ago about significant neglect in nursing homes for to lack of staffing in NYC. (https://gothamist.com/news/neglect-death-in-nys-nursing-homes-theyre-laying-there-rotting )
    It covers several different facilities including City run ones.

    A commenter @Bert posted this video deep in the Chicago thread yesterday. It makes unverifiable but, imo, quite credible sounding claims of bad care in an unnamed NYC hospital. the video her linked was taken down by YT for some reason so here's the Daily Mail article about it (it a pretty poor write up but the video is worth watching)
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-York-claims-city-killing-COVID-19-patients-putting-ventilators.html#article-8262351

    I'll link to my response too just because it's another example of this "idle nurses in one place, seriously neglected patients in a nearby place" issue:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/chicago/#comment-3864265

    I'll stop flogging this for now, but i really hope some credible investigations are done once things settle down.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Polynikes

    I think it was last week that it came out that official NY state policy was to put infected elderly back into the nursing homes and to try and contain it there.

    That was well past the point that we knew that it was contagious and damaging to the elderly and that most of the problems were in these elderly assisted living homes.

    That is a complete failure of policy and borderline criminal, in my opinion.

  33. @HA
    @Anon

    "Magnesium is readily available. I’ve been taking a magnesium supplement for the past decade, and I’ve only been sick once in that time that I can recall."

    Be very careful. Cheaper calcium and magnesium supplements -- such as those mined from dolomite -- can have unhealthy levels of lead, especially when it comes to long-term usage.


    A high manganese content gives the [dolomite] crystals a rosy pink color. Lead, zinc, and cobalt also substitute in the structure for magnesium.
     
    Cobalt probably doesn't help you all that much either.

    Replies: @Anon

    This is fear-mongering. You’re not supposed to take gardening supplies, for God’s sake. That’s akin to imbibing fish tank cleaner. Supplements for people are not the same.

    • Replies: @HA
    @Anon

    "This is fear-mongering. You’re not supposed to take gardening supplies, for God’s sake."

    I'm not sure where you got gardening supplies. Are poor reading comprehension and resorting to straw-man arguments an early signal of chronic lead poisoning? Let's hope not.

    Regardless, dolomite and bonemeal are indeed widely used in the manufacture of mineral supplements, and are even available directly. And lead contamination is certainly a problem with calcium supplements. Given that both calcium and magnesium are frequently derived from the same sources (e.g. dolomite, bonemeal, oyster shells), those who are not blessed or cursed with your head-in-the-sand naiveté might find it worth a simple internet query to ensure their supplements are clean.

  34. @Mr. Anon
    @Buzz Mohawk

    If you are feeling unwell, you may have illness. Ask your doctor about........medicine.

    (side-effects of medicine may include headache, heartburn, hives, itching, nausea, diarrhea, rectal bleeding, impotence, and death)

    Replies: @Anon

    And suicidal thoughts.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Anon


    And suicidal thoughts.
     
    Yes, good catch. I forgot that one.
  35. @prosa123
    Granted, the death rate in NY hospitals is not encouraging.

    Extrapolating from the antibody tests that have been performed, as many as 12% of the people in New York have had the virus. Most weren't even aware of it. Taking those numbers into account, the death rate is very, very low.

    Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco, @Travis

    more likely 20% of New Yorkers have the virus, as 15% of New Yorkers had antibodies to the virus last week and it typically takes 10-20 days to develop antibodies. The best antibody test developed will fail to detect antibodies in 15% of recovered CV patients and many CV patients never develop any antibodies (they can defeat CV with their innate immune system)

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86084
    After weeks of tweaking their own ELISA assay, Columbia researchers say they’ve managed to bring its sensitivity to 85% — -That means that 15% of the patients who were confirmed infected with COVID-19 by molecular testing were negative by this assay 2 to 3 weeks later.

    an estimated 4,000,000 New Yorkers have already contracted CV and 99% of them never required hospitalization. The CDC models had predicted that 8-10% would be hospitalized, but Many who stayed home were able to get hydrocchloroquine from their doctors to reduce the load on the hospitals. Many more took quinine and other drugs to avoid being hospitalized. Chris Cuomo and his wife took quinine to help recover at home.

  36. Speaking of pulse oximeters, on another iSteve blog post about these I was prompted to try and buy one. I reported later in a comment that I had ordered one along with a touchless forehead thermometer.

    I also sent my link to a friend. He then tried to order.

    Just the other day he informed me that the “Phillips” link I used was a scam site. He was sent a subsequent “shipped” email but never got anything (I never got an order acknowledgement or shipment notice.) Turns out the “shipping status” link he was sent was totally bogus. I recently reported my non acknowledgement on that same website, which promised me a quick response.

    No dice. Never heard from them. But I don’t think they processed, or could, my PayPal account info. I will find out eventually. PayPal has no record of it. Just a waste of time.

    So I went to a Walgreens website this week to see about ordering another set of these. None available online or at local stores. So as others had commented (which I disbelieved) these aren’t currently in stock. Maybe in a month or two.

  37. Famotidine is the new toilet paper.

    Last week a site put up the preliminaries on “people on Pepcid not dying” and you can’t find a bottle or pack of any type of famotidine anywhere around here. And this is the sticks!

    Watch them BS rumors, folks.

    My guess is Zantac would have cured it completely. It was real suspicious how they pulled all of it from the shelves in less than a week. And chemists insisted the “carcinogenic” taint of ranitidine is about equivalent to having a grilled hot dog once a week. Almost zero risk. Conspiracy?

  38. @donut
    Are you going to be difficult Sailer ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzCI6OKEGPI

    Replies: @Pat Boyle

    There is some joke here but I don’t have any idea what it is. Someone please tell me. Actually this guy has a good voice and can sing. But. He needs to learn how to sing diphthongs.

    • Replies: @donut
    @Pat Boyle

    Yes this guy has a good voice and can sing. Maybe there is no joke .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMrjJx8K4lM

    Have you ever heard a better version ?

    , @donut
    @Pat Boyle

    diphthongs . I looked it up but I don't get it . Can you post a video contrasting the two ? Thanks .

  39. @Esquimau
    It’s not that H2 blockers are therapeutic, it’s that PPIs (proton pump inhibitors) are bad for you.

    After more than a decade of passing out Prilosec like candy we figured out that it does all kinds of nasty things like mess with mineral metabolism and increases infection rates.

    Yep, we already know that PPIs increase your chances of getting pneumonia. Not sure why anyone would think that Zantac would be a treatment, how about not putting people on Protonix?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Mr. Hack

    What’s wrong with Protonix?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mr. Hack

    PPIs block vitamin and mineral absorption. Probably not a good med to be on long-term. I was on Nexium (Protonix) for 4-5 years after bad acid reflux. Often had colds/flu. Likely contributed to being more susceptible. I realized this when I saw there was actually a vitamin brand on the shelf that promotes for use by those on PPIs like Nexium.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  40. Anon[488] • Disclaimer says:

    @ Exactly how much is hydroxychloroquine being used anyway? …

    Well, ask physicians.. all the ones I know (that have access to it) use it. Or ask, if not hcq, what treatment do you use?

    You might be surprised that the answer is plain chloroquine. Plus Ivermectin, plus anticoagulants.. For people whose EKG disqualifies them for Plaquenil, and are very sick, Tozi-whatchamacallit is the preferred option. Very expensive, though.

  41. Kim says:
    @donut
    Shit man the best cure for heartburn is Baking Soda , Don't let them sell a pill .

    And now for something completely different :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7uC5m-IRns

    Replies: @Kim

    An excellent and very cheap cure for indigestion is papaya seed, most effective if fresh, but can also be dried in the sun and kept.

    The active ingredient is the enzyme “papaine” which is involved in the breakdown and digestion of protein.

    There are a couple of reasons people may not be naturally producing enough of this digestive enzyme:

    1) Low levels of stomach acid. the gall bladder will not produce enzymes until the stomach contains an adequate level of HCl (hydrochloric acid). If you have chronic indigestion, it may be low stomach acid. A course of over-the-counter Betaine HCl can solve that problem.

    2) Ageing. like so much else, enzyme production may slow with aging. Papaya seed, fresh or dried, (and fresh pineapple too, as it contains the enzyme protease) with protein meals can help this problem a lot.

    • Replies: @Kudzu Bob
    @Kim

    Can confirm. For years now I have used chewable papaya tablets, available in any health food store, to treat my heartburn.

  42. @Mr. Anon
    @Esquimau


    After more than a decade of passing out Prilosec like candy we figured out that it does all kinds of nasty things like mess with mineral metabolism and increases infection rates.
     
    I used to get frequent acid-reflux. Tried Prilosec once - it did such a number on my innards that I never took it again. Something that interferes with normal gut-function like PPIs do can't be good for you. A better thing to do is figure out what's causing your acid-reflux, and modify your diet and habits accordingly. For occasional relief, you can take an antacid like Tums, which is pretty innocuous.

    Replies: @Kim

    You may like to consider the advice that I offer above. Few people have too much stomach acid. The opposite is usually the case. So an antacid may be exactly the opposite of what you need. Cheers.

  43. @Anon
    @Mr. Anon

    And suicidal thoughts.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    And suicidal thoughts.

    Yes, good catch. I forgot that one.

  44. HA says:
    @Anon
    @HA

    This is fear-mongering. You're not supposed to take gardening supplies, for God's sake. That's akin to imbibing fish tank cleaner. Supplements for people are not the same.

    Replies: @HA

    “This is fear-mongering. You’re not supposed to take gardening supplies, for God’s sake.”

    I’m not sure where you got gardening supplies. Are poor reading comprehension and resorting to straw-man arguments an early signal of chronic lead poisoning? Let’s hope not.

    Regardless, dolomite and bonemeal are indeed widely used in the manufacture of mineral supplements, and are even available directly. And lead contamination is certainly a problem with calcium supplements. Given that both calcium and magnesium are frequently derived from the same sources (e.g. dolomite, bonemeal, oyster shells), those who are not blessed or cursed with your head-in-the-sand naiveté might find it worth a simple internet query to ensure their supplements are clean.

  45. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    This virus is so easy to defeat if treated rapidly, just a few glasses of Tonic water and some zinc lozenges will cure the vast majority of CV cases. To make sure it is treated quickly I switched from drinking beer to having a few vodka tonics each night just to be safe , as a preventative I also smoke a cigar each evening for the nicotine and take vitamin D. So far it has been working for me, no infections living here in the hotspot of Northern New Jersey surrounded by people infected with Coronavirus.

    Thankfully the kids are immune from CV. We still let our children play with the neighborhood kids outside. Last week a neighbor called the cops because they were playing with some friends outside, funny seeing the police explain to my 7 year-old son why he needs to maintain distance from his best friend , they were playing soccer outside as I watched from the window. Thankfully the cop allowed them to continue playing.

    Replies: @Obamahotep

    I’m sorry friend but you are falling for some fucked up science there. Quinine is useless unless you combine it with the catalytic and cataclysmic properties of gin (genever falldownalotus). Heal thyself!

  46. Anonymous[195] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @Esquimau

    What's wrong with Protonix?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    PPIs block vitamin and mineral absorption. Probably not a good med to be on long-term. I was on Nexium (Protonix) for 4-5 years after bad acid reflux. Often had colds/flu. Likely contributed to being more susceptible. I realized this when I saw there was actually a vitamin brand on the shelf that promotes for use by those on PPIs like Nexium.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Anonymous

    I think that for most folks heartburn is a result of wrong dietary choices. For me it's mostly white sugar, starches (white breads etc) and a couple of other items. If I steer away from these foods, and eat foods that I know will help my digestion process (kefir, cabbage and saukraut, salads) I avoid these problems. However, once in a while, when I become complacent and lax, the nasty feeling in my throat reappears. For these occasions in the past, I used to use zantax, that has now been eliminated. On occasion, I now use prilosec that seems to work well with no immediate side effects.

    The reason I brought up protonix is because when I've been away from home, and partying it up with friends, and I don't have anything to get me through I've used protonix, that a friend of mine has been using for years and highly recommends. I'll be sure to inform him of the possible problems associated with it.

  47. NY doctors are not treating patients with hydroxychloroquine so the high death rates in NY are showing people die from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

  48. @Anonymous
    @Mr. Hack

    PPIs block vitamin and mineral absorption. Probably not a good med to be on long-term. I was on Nexium (Protonix) for 4-5 years after bad acid reflux. Often had colds/flu. Likely contributed to being more susceptible. I realized this when I saw there was actually a vitamin brand on the shelf that promotes for use by those on PPIs like Nexium.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I think that for most folks heartburn is a result of wrong dietary choices. For me it’s mostly white sugar, starches (white breads etc) and a couple of other items. If I steer away from these foods, and eat foods that I know will help my digestion process (kefir, cabbage and saukraut, salads) I avoid these problems. However, once in a while, when I become complacent and lax, the nasty feeling in my throat reappears. For these occasions in the past, I used to use zantax, that has now been eliminated. On occasion, I now use prilosec that seems to work well with no immediate side effects.

    The reason I brought up protonix is because when I’ve been away from home, and partying it up with friends, and I don’t have anything to get me through I’ve used protonix, that a friend of mine has been using for years and highly recommends. I’ll be sure to inform him of the possible problems associated with it.

  49. @Kim
    @donut

    An excellent and very cheap cure for indigestion is papaya seed, most effective if fresh, but can also be dried in the sun and kept.

    The active ingredient is the enzyme "papaine" which is involved in the breakdown and digestion of protein.

    There are a couple of reasons people may not be naturally producing enough of this digestive enzyme:

    1) Low levels of stomach acid. the gall bladder will not produce enzymes until the stomach contains an adequate level of HCl (hydrochloric acid). If you have chronic indigestion, it may be low stomach acid. A course of over-the-counter Betaine HCl can solve that problem.

    2) Ageing. like so much else, enzyme production may slow with aging. Papaya seed, fresh or dried, (and fresh pineapple too, as it contains the enzyme protease) with protein meals can help this problem a lot.

    Replies: @Kudzu Bob

    Can confirm. For years now I have used chewable papaya tablets, available in any health food store, to treat my heartburn.

  50. @Pat Boyle
    @donut

    There is some joke here but I don't have any idea what it is. Someone please tell me. Actually this guy has a good voice and can sing. But. He needs to learn how to sing diphthongs.

    Replies: @donut, @donut

    Yes this guy has a good voice and can sing. Maybe there is no joke .

    Have you ever heard a better version ?

  51. @Pat Boyle
    @donut

    There is some joke here but I don't have any idea what it is. Someone please tell me. Actually this guy has a good voice and can sing. But. He needs to learn how to sing diphthongs.

    Replies: @donut, @donut

    diphthongs . I looked it up but I don’t get it . Can you post a video contrasting the two ? Thanks .

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