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From Proceedings of National Academy of Sciences:

Why East Asians but not South Asians are underrepresented in leadership positions in the United States
Jackson G. Lu, Richard E. Nisbett, and Michael W. Morris
PNAS first published February 18, 2020

Well-educated and prosperous, Asians are called the “model minority” in the United States. However, they appear disproportionately underrepresented in leadership positions, a problem known as the “bamboo ceiling.” It remains unclear why this problem exists and whether it applies to all Asians or only particular Asian subgroups. To investigate the mechanisms and scope of the problem, we compared the leadership attainment of the two largest Asian subgroups in the United States: East Asians (e.g., Chinese) and South Asians (e.g., Indians). Across nine studies (n = 11,030) using mixed methods (archival analyses of chief executive officers, field surveys in large US companies, student leader nominations and elections, and experiments), East Asians were less likely than South Asians and whites to attain leadership positions, whereas South Asians were more likely than whites to do so. To understand why the bamboo ceiling exists for East Asians but not South Asians, we examined three categories of mechanisms—prejudice (intergroup), motivation (intrapersonal), and assertiveness (interpersonal)—while controlling for demographics (e.g., birth country, English fluency, education, socioeconomic status). Analyses revealed that East Asians faced less prejudice than South Asians and were equally motivated by work and leadership as South Asians. However, East Asians were lower in assertiveness, which consistently mediated the leadership attainment gap between East Asians and South Asians. These results suggest that East Asians hit the bamboo ceiling because their low assertiveness is incongruent with American norms concerning how leaders should communicate. The bamboo ceiling is not an Asian issue, but an issue of cultural fit.

 
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  1. East Asians were lower in assertiveness

    Yeesh, that may be their one saving grace, so let’s train them out of it.

    I’ve an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia? Why is that so hard? I bet they’ll find the ‘cultural fit’ quite agreeable. It’s worth trying.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr McKenna


    Yeesh, that may be their one saving grace, so let’s train them out of it.
     
    Our diocese has a pipeline of priests from Kerala and thereabouts. They are the jolliest, most wonderful guys you're likely to ever meet. The polar opposite of the backstabbing corporate type.

    So, of course these wonderful qualities are being bred out of the race!

    I've met some nice non-clerical Indians as well. The subcontinent is taking after the Italian peninsula, sending us their best and their worst. Middle-of-the-road is not their thing.

    Replies: @Hodag

    , @Anon
    @Mr McKenna


    How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia?
     
    Yup, they have beautiful fantastic countries of their own. Please don't keep coming over here, you're all a blight on our landscape.
    , @Twinkie
    @Mr McKenna


    I’ve an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia?
     
    You are getting your wish with East Asians, but not with South Asians. There is practically no immigration from Japan today. Korean immigration has cratered. Eventually, so will Chinese as its economy modernizes and grows. However, the last twenty years have seen a massive growth in South Asian immigration. The latter were a tiny fraction of Asians in the US in the past decades, but now account for a quarter and is growing fast. Indians in America will likely overtake the Chinese in the coming decades, and you will recall the good ol’ days of the past when the “Asians” in America were the patriotic Japanese or the Christian Koreans or the Chinese whose restaurants stayed open during holidays.

    Replies: @Anon, @SOL

    , @donut
    @Mr McKenna

    Agree . I brought this up before : the country is flooded with Indian and to a lesser extent Chinese doctors but the number of doctors of Japanese descent I can count on one hand and one of those was mixed White and Japanese . The West coast may be different with some small Japanese communities that have been here for generations .

  2. Did this study account for the cronyism which South Asians are past masters?

    • Agree: The Alarmist
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Dan Hayes

    past?

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

  3. Ditto women, obviously. That would be a real comparison, East Asians vs white women. (Black women do not lack in assertiveness!)

  4. I would be interested to see how this breaks down regarding CEOs who were company founders, versus CEOs who climbed the ladder of an existing organization.

    East Asians don’t seem to me to be underrepresented among founders. However becoming a CEO of an existing company, yes, East Asians are definitely underrepresented. South Asians seem like the opposite. You can draw your own conclusions…

  5. Perhaps it’s more a matter of South Asians having more chutzpah, that is, less conscientiousness, more brazenness, high verbality and a natural talent for improvising BS.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @BB753

    IOW, South Asians are on the whole more sociopathic.

    Replies: @BB753, @Anon, @Jus' Sayin'...

    , @donut
    @BB753

    The next time there is a big Medicare/Medicaid fraud scandal check the names , overwhelmingly East Indian .

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

  6. Anonymous[149] • Disclaimer says:

    Politics and punditry are also an area where you notice this difference. South Asians have become very overrepresented in politics and punditry over the past decade or so. Punditry especially is all about asserting your opinion. There’s an Indo-Canadian guy named Jeet Heer whose background was in reviewing comic books or something, and somehow managed to become a liberal pundit on US politics, writing for The Nation. And then there’s this recent anti-capitalism pundit named Anand Somethingorother, whose whole shtick is wearing like a black leather jacket and motorcycle outfit while aggressively asserting his talking points.

    Andrew Yang was the most notable East Asian of late in this area, and he was notably unassertive in the debates. And his whole shtick, the UBI thing, was content based. He basically had to rely on a content based gimmick rather than interpersonal assertiveness to make a name for himself in politics.

  7. What other assertive ethnic groups are over-represented in corporate leadership positions?

  8. …low assertiveness is incongruent with American norms concerning how leaders should communicate…

    IOW, you won’t get ahead in the US unless you’re a blowhard frat boy asshole, which is not far off the Big Man model seen in many Third World shitholes.

    Oh wait….

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Actually, the Harvard admission case settled the issue. The judge agreed with Harvard's defense that it was entitled to prefer White students with similar test scores because Asians have objectively worse personalities.

    Since Harvard is all about picking future leaders, maybe they were on to something after all.

    And btw, shouldn't "bamboo ceiling" be considered racist? What is it for South Asians, the "curry ceiling?"

    Replies: @Twinkie

  9. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:

    Pheromones.

    Androstenone for example is a pheromone in BO that mediates interpersonal dominance.

    South Asians are famous for their BO.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-without-underarm-protection/

    Several years ago ago, scientists discovered that a gene called ABCC11 determined whether people produced wet or dry earwax. Interestingly, people who produce the “dry” version of earwax also lack a chemical in their armpits that bacteria feed on to cause underarm odor.

    “This key gene is basically the single determinant of whether you do produce underarm odor or not,” Day said.

    While only 2 percent of Europeans lack the genes for smelly armpits, most East Asians and almost all Koreans lack this gene, Day told LiveScience.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Anonymous

    Are you saying that South Asians ' secret weapon is their smelly armpits?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ron Mexico, @Anon

  10. OT:

    Get your popcorn, folks!

    Defiant Meghan tells friends there’s nothing ‘legally stopping’ her and Prince Harry from using their Sussex Royal name, despite Queen banning them from using it

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8021867/Defiant-Meghan-says-theres-legally-stopping-using-Sussex-Royal-name.html

    So, will it be the high speed paparazzi chase in the tunnel under Paris again, or some other method of dispatch?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Polar Bear. "It has been colder than usual this winter, so he apparently went further South than normal."

    , @JMcG
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I picture Harry sitting in his scuba gear like Brad Pitt in “Once Upon a Time in the West” fingering the trigger on his spear gun as she grates on and on and on about how he won’t stand up to his grandmawmaw.

    , @BenKenobi
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I made this one a few years back:

    https://ibb.co/Q9GLCQv

  11. I’d like to see the South Asian data broken down by Caste.

  12. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Does that mean East Asians will reach higher IF they act more assertive? Maybe. Maybe not.

    It could be that Americans are more willing to tolerate, accept, and even admire assertiveness in certain groups than others.

    For example, if blacks act funky, it’s seen as natural. If Asians act funky, it’s seen as weird and ridiculous.

    There may also be the China vs India factor. American elites see China as the bigger threat than India. Notice how Trump always says ‘China’ in a funny way but is more positive about India and Indians.
    Also, there are many news about Chinese spying on the US, but not much about Hindus(or Israelis) spying on the US.

    Also, colorfulness than assertiveness may matter more in rising up the ranks. Consider the problems of ‘leaning-in’ among feminists.

    https://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2016/11/big-feminism-fails.html

    It’s a one-dimensional strategy. Being pushy and demanding. The problem is such attitude is often seem annoying, even offensive. Higher-ups prefer those who suck up to them, not those who demand stuff. While higher-ups look for people with leadership qualities, they also look for deferential(to higher ups) and flexible qualities. The passive/aggressive and adaptable type.

    So, East Asians won’t gain more by simply acting more assertive. Rather, they have to more attentive, better at picking up signals and more at being chameleon-like.
    The problem for East Asians may not only be that they are sometimes too deferential but too rigid in their pride or principle. It’s the samurai with do-or-die mentality. And if someone make him lose face, he may hate the person forever. Think of Mishima and John Nathan. When Nathan declined to translate a Mishima novel, Mishima totally shut him out of his life. Consider Kurosawa and Mifune. After Mifune wasn’t 100% with Kurosawa in the filming of RED BEARD, Kurosawa never worked with him again.

    In contrast, look at the Hindus in the movie GURU. They shit on each other in the worst possible way but they are still talking, still being sociable, still dropping in on each other. Hindus are more immune to insults, slights, and etc. They have a higher tolerance for bad shit, just like hindus have higher immunity to all sorts of filth in India.

    When East Asians run red hot, they are red hot. When they run cold, they run cold. But Hindu ‘temperature’ goes all over the gauge according to the needs of the moment. East Asian knows how to play master or slave but the Hindu knows how to play both and everything in between. It’s like some hindu gods have eight arms. East Asians are more like shellfish. Hindus are more like the octopus with constantly changing colors.

    It’s like Jews had advantage over Italians because they were passive/aggressive whereas Italians tended to be just aggressive/aggressive. If it came down to Sonny vs Hyman Roth, who’s gonna win?

    • Replies: @Lugash
    @Anonymous


    There may also be the China vs India factor. American elites see China as the bigger threat than India. Notice how Trump always says ‘China’ in a funny way but is more positive about India and Indians.
    Also, there are many news about Chinese spying on the US, but not much about Hindus(or Israelis) spying on the US.
     
    One of the real undernews stories of the Trump presidency has been how skillfully India and Modi have played Trump. Kashmir got rolled up without a peep from the US press or establishment.
    , @Bucky
    @Anonymous

    Beyond that, probably personal interactions with East Asians plays a role in the perception of China, one that is unfair and overly aggressive. A large part really is a feeling that Asians are a silent threat, are quietly malicious, etc and that their countries are covertly evil. This is due to the general reticent nature of East Asians more than any genuine malice.

  13. Anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    I remember from Nicholas Wade’s book that when you use genetic clustering algorithms to figure out racial divisions, Dot Indians are Caucasian/European/White in both the 3 and 5 race models, and only slough off into a separate race in the 7 race model. So they are not even “Asian” in a genetic since. On the other hand, indigenous Americans, Australians, and Melanesian cluster with Asians in the 3 race model.

    • Replies: @bob sykes
    @Anon

    Aryans recognize each other despite skin color and stick together. Iranians are in the club, too.

  14. @Anonymous
    Pheromones.

    Androstenone for example is a pheromone in BO that mediates interpersonal dominance.

    South Asians are famous for their BO.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-without-underarm-protection/

    Several years ago ago, scientists discovered that a gene called ABCC11 determined whether people produced wet or dry earwax. Interestingly, people who produce the "dry" version of earwax also lack a chemical in their armpits that bacteria feed on to cause underarm odor.

    "This key gene is basically the single determinant of whether you do produce underarm odor or not," Day said.

    While only 2 percent of Europeans lack the genes for smelly armpits, most East Asians and almost all Koreans lack this gene, Day told LiveScience.
     

    Replies: @BB753

    Are you saying that South Asians ‘ secret weapon is their smelly armpits?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @BB753


    Are you saying that South Asians ‘ secret weapon is their smelly armpits?
     
    With all that powder, perfume, and patchouli, they are often the nicest-smelling people on the planet!


    But, yeah, do take the doo to the loo.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pj4L7C2twI

    Replies: @BB753

    , @Ron Mexico
    @BB753

    How is that working out for Arabs and Amish, two peoples who are my neighbors here in socentral Michigan? No representatives in corporate leadership as far as I can tell.

    , @Anon
    @BB753

    Lion of the Blogosphere has written about Indian BO in his workplace. It's an olfactory dominance display.

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/comey-and-indian-body-odor/

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/i-smell-indian-bo/

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2017/06/23/indian-bo-is-back/

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2019/06/21/i-smell-bo-in-nj/

    Replies: @BB753

  15. @BB753
    Perhaps it's more a matter of South Asians having more chutzpah, that is, less conscientiousness, more brazenness, high verbality and a natural talent for improvising BS.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @donut

    IOW, South Asians are on the whole more sociopathic.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    @The Alarmist

    And neurotic, aren't they?

    Replies: @Spangel

    , @Anon
    @The Alarmist

    Why would you say that? Asians seem pretty sociopathic to me.

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @The Alarmist

    That's been my personal experience.

  16. @The Wild Geese Howard
    OT:

    Get your popcorn, folks!


    Defiant Meghan tells friends there's nothing 'legally stopping' her and Prince Harry from using their Sussex Royal name, despite Queen banning them from using it

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8021867/Defiant-Meghan-says-theres-legally-stopping-using-Sussex-Royal-name.html
     

    So, will it be the high speed paparazzi chase in the tunnel under Paris again, or some other method of dispatch?

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @JMcG, @BenKenobi

    Polar Bear. “It has been colder than usual this winter, so he apparently went further South than normal.”

  17. @The Wild Geese Howard

    ...low assertiveness is incongruent with American norms concerning how leaders should communicate...
     
    IOW, you won't get ahead in the US unless you're a blowhard frat boy asshole, which is not far off the Big Man model seen in many Third World shitholes.

    Oh wait....

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Actually, the Harvard admission case settled the issue. The judge agreed with Harvard’s defense that it was entitled to prefer White students with similar test scores because Asians have objectively worse personalities.

    Since Harvard is all about picking future leaders, maybe they were on to something after all.

    And btw, shouldn’t “bamboo ceiling” be considered racist? What is it for South Asians, the “curry ceiling?”

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Hypnotoad666


    Actually, the Harvard admission case settled the issue. The judge agreed with Harvard’s defense that it was entitled to prefer White students with similar test scores because Asians have objectively worse personalities.

    Since Harvard is all about picking future leaders, maybe they were on to something after all.
     
    Yup. By the same logic, Jews have the best personalities, eh? And the same Harvard case revealed that its admissions views South Asians as more victim-y than East Asians. What a surprise!

    Replies: @Lot, @Lot

  18. @Mr McKenna

    East Asians were lower in assertiveness
     
    Yeesh, that may be their one saving grace, so let's train them out of it.

    I've an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia? Why is that so hard? I bet they'll find the 'cultural fit' quite agreeable. It's worth trying.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon, @Twinkie, @donut

    Yeesh, that may be their one saving grace, so let’s train them out of it.

    Our diocese has a pipeline of priests from Kerala and thereabouts. They are the jolliest, most wonderful guys you’re likely to ever meet. The polar opposite of the backstabbing corporate type.

    So, of course these wonderful qualities are being bred out of the race!

    I’ve met some nice non-clerical Indians as well. The subcontinent is taking after the Italian peninsula, sending us their best and their worst. Middle-of-the-road is not their thing.

    • Replies: @Hodag
    @Reg Cæsar

    The caste system enforces the "kiss up, kick down" system which helps in corporate America.

  19. @Mr McKenna

    East Asians were lower in assertiveness
     
    Yeesh, that may be their one saving grace, so let's train them out of it.

    I've an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia? Why is that so hard? I bet they'll find the 'cultural fit' quite agreeable. It's worth trying.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon, @Twinkie, @donut

    How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia?

    Yup, they have beautiful fantastic countries of their own. Please don’t keep coming over here, you’re all a blight on our landscape.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  20. the Madras Floor

    Chennai! Chennai!

    Wash it down with your Mumbai Sapphire Gin, after some crab Yangon or Beijing duck.

    Make sure to pick up some Myanmar Shave on the way home– your stubble is showing. And don’t miss the Foghorn Livorno marathon coming up on the Cartoon Network.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Autochthon
    @Reg Cæsar

    This is top notch satire; good stuff. I laughed as much as I do watching reruns of The Jeffersons and their sassy maid, Firenze.

  21. @BB753
    @Anonymous

    Are you saying that South Asians ' secret weapon is their smelly armpits?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ron Mexico, @Anon

    Are you saying that South Asians ‘ secret weapon is their smelly armpits?

    With all that powder, perfume, and patchouli, they are often the nicest-smelling people on the planet!

    But, yeah, do take the doo to the loo.

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    @Reg Cæsar

    Unfortunately, for most South Asians, the loo lies in the open air and there's no flush!

    Replies: @Just passing through

  22. I work from home a day at week, when I do I normally watch CNBC. It’s not unusual to have panels where the guests are all of South Asian descent. Then of course there are the CEOs of top companies like Microsoft and Google. South Asians are really doing well in America. Heck it appears Boris Johnson has quite a few South Asians as top ministers. One is his Home Secretary and another a treasury official.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Ed

    Yes, but they had the whole British Empire thing going on.

  23. @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr McKenna


    Yeesh, that may be their one saving grace, so let’s train them out of it.
     
    Our diocese has a pipeline of priests from Kerala and thereabouts. They are the jolliest, most wonderful guys you're likely to ever meet. The polar opposite of the backstabbing corporate type.

    So, of course these wonderful qualities are being bred out of the race!

    I've met some nice non-clerical Indians as well. The subcontinent is taking after the Italian peninsula, sending us their best and their worst. Middle-of-the-road is not their thing.

    Replies: @Hodag

    The caste system enforces the “kiss up, kick down” system which helps in corporate America.

  24. @Mr McKenna

    East Asians were lower in assertiveness
     
    Yeesh, that may be their one saving grace, so let's train them out of it.

    I've an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia? Why is that so hard? I bet they'll find the 'cultural fit' quite agreeable. It's worth trying.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon, @Twinkie, @donut

    I’ve an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia?

    You are getting your wish with East Asians, but not with South Asians. There is practically no immigration from Japan today. Korean immigration has cratered. Eventually, so will Chinese as its economy modernizes and grows. However, the last twenty years have seen a massive growth in South Asian immigration. The latter were a tiny fraction of Asians in the US in the past decades, but now account for a quarter and is growing fast. Indians in America will likely overtake the Chinese in the coming decades, and you will recall the good ol’ days of the past when the “Asians” in America were the patriotic Japanese or the Christian Koreans or the Chinese whose restaurants stayed open during holidays.

    • Agree: Triumph104, JMcG
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Twinkie


    You are getting your wish with East Asians, but not with South Asians. There is practically no immigration from Japan today. Korean immigration has cratered. Eventually, so will Chinese as its economy modernizes and grows. However, the last twenty years have seen a massive growth in South Asian immigration.
     
    How depressing. But I’m happy for the future offspring of East Asians, that they won’t have to deal with the coming Brazilification in which their diligence, cognitive power, and good family values will be taken for granted, or worse, despised and attacked.

    and you will recall the good ol’ days of the past when the “Asians” in America were the patriotic Japanese or the Christian Koreans
     
    No kidding. Korean-Americans have shown patriotism way beyond their percentages. South Asians? Well, if they do join the Armed Services it is strictly for professional advancement and/or money. Meanwhile Korean-Americans whose backgrounds allow them to do anything will sign up for Navy SEALs and serve bravely in combat.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EBFNgMbMnRY/SsOwvk9Q61I/AAAAAAAABwM/81BOQl7MyN4/s400/suh1.jpg
    James Suh, USN SEAL, killed in combat
     
    Jonny Kim might be the one Korean-American whose parents told him to not work so hard:

    At just 35 years old, Jonny Kim has served overseas as a Navy SEAL and graduated from Harvard Medical School. Last week, he became NASA's first Korean-American astronaut.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/artemis-graduate-jonny-kim-navy-seal-harvard-doctor-nasa-first-korean-american-astronaut-2020-01-14/
     

    Koreans are always punching above their weight.
    , @SOL
    @Twinkie

    The Japanese-American descendants today tend to be SJWs.

  25. South Asians are very pushy

    Tell us something we don’t know

  26. @Hypnotoad666
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Actually, the Harvard admission case settled the issue. The judge agreed with Harvard's defense that it was entitled to prefer White students with similar test scores because Asians have objectively worse personalities.

    Since Harvard is all about picking future leaders, maybe they were on to something after all.

    And btw, shouldn't "bamboo ceiling" be considered racist? What is it for South Asians, the "curry ceiling?"

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Actually, the Harvard admission case settled the issue. The judge agreed with Harvard’s defense that it was entitled to prefer White students with similar test scores because Asians have objectively worse personalities.

    Since Harvard is all about picking future leaders, maybe they were on to something after all.

    Yup. By the same logic, Jews have the best personalities, eh? And the same Harvard case revealed that its admissions views South Asians as more victim-y than East Asians. What a surprise!

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Twinkie

    Who’s been evolving for the tech ceo role the past 1000 years?

    https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/traditional-chinese-framer-using-ox-to-plow-field-plant-planting-guangxi-zhuang-autonomous-region-asa-guangxi-province-58512616.jpg

    http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/stb/lots/N08/N08922/N08922-93_web.jpg.thumb.500.500.png

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Lot
    @Twinkie

    http://www.midus.wisc.edu/findings/pdfs/1488.pdf

  27. Personally, I favor the ‘Beef Curtain’.

    ; )

  28. A friend was one of a bunch of consultants working for Sears 12ish years ago. Eddie was milking the corporation of all its pension and real estate assets but was trying to keep the ship afloat until he squeezed every dollar out.

    He hired all Indians to be the senior management. They decided Sears could be Amazon Part II, with store shipment and pickup. Got a pretty good website going, figured out how to get all the customers emails. This is where my friend came in.

    They bought a bunch of the bargain level apple ipod variants that failed after launch, and set up employees in the stores as warehouse pickers. The store literally wanted to jump from FAXING (yes I am yelling) planogram store layouts to beaming item locations to pickers walking the stores with shopping carts to take net orders off the display shelves.

    His whole group pointed out the economic insanity of paying pickers to grab orders and department employees to then restock—but the Indians all knew how the retail world worked–because they had run stores in Bangalore.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Lawyer Guy

    Eddie gets a lot of blame, but was there really any possible way to save Sears and K-Mart?

    If a competing retail concept is 3% better than the prior one, that can be enough to gradually kill it off. Payless Shoes, Bon Ton, Circuit City, Radio Shack, A&P, Borders, etc seem to fit this mold.

    In some cases the death was hastened by some last minute attempts at radical reform that failed. But if they had done nothing management would be attacked for not trying to right a sinking ship.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  29. OT – since Sailer decided to flush a comment I posted in another thread about Obama’s scientifically proven 140 IQ, I thought I’d repost it here. Note, The comment I made consisted of the below video plus one sentence challenging the assertion of Obama’s supposed high IQ. No vulgarity, sexual references, insults, etc.

  30. Anon[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @Mr McKenna


    I’ve an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia?
     
    You are getting your wish with East Asians, but not with South Asians. There is practically no immigration from Japan today. Korean immigration has cratered. Eventually, so will Chinese as its economy modernizes and grows. However, the last twenty years have seen a massive growth in South Asian immigration. The latter were a tiny fraction of Asians in the US in the past decades, but now account for a quarter and is growing fast. Indians in America will likely overtake the Chinese in the coming decades, and you will recall the good ol’ days of the past when the “Asians” in America were the patriotic Japanese or the Christian Koreans or the Chinese whose restaurants stayed open during holidays.

    Replies: @Anon, @SOL

    You are getting your wish with East Asians, but not with South Asians. There is practically no immigration from Japan today. Korean immigration has cratered. Eventually, so will Chinese as its economy modernizes and grows. However, the last twenty years have seen a massive growth in South Asian immigration.

    How depressing. But I’m happy for the future offspring of East Asians, that they won’t have to deal with the coming Brazilification in which their diligence, cognitive power, and good family values will be taken for granted, or worse, despised and attacked.

    and you will recall the good ol’ days of the past when the “Asians” in America were the patriotic Japanese or the Christian Koreans

    No kidding. Korean-Americans have shown patriotism way beyond their percentages. South Asians? Well, if they do join the Armed Services it is strictly for professional advancement and/or money. Meanwhile Korean-Americans whose backgrounds allow them to do anything will sign up for Navy SEALs and serve bravely in combat.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EBFNgMbMnRY/SsOwvk9Q61I/AAAAAAAABwM/81BOQl7MyN4/s400/suh1.jpg
    James Suh, USN SEAL, killed in combat

    Jonny Kim might be the one Korean-American whose parents told him to not work so hard:

    At just 35 years old, Jonny Kim has served overseas as a Navy SEAL and graduated from Harvard Medical School. Last week, he became NASA’s first Korean-American astronaut.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/artemis-graduate-jonny-kim-navy-seal-harvard-doctor-nasa-first-korean-american-astronaut-2020-01-14/

    Koreans are always punching above their weight.

  31. @Anon
    I remember from Nicholas Wade's book that when you use genetic clustering algorithms to figure out racial divisions, Dot Indians are Caucasian/European/White in both the 3 and 5 race models, and only slough off into a separate race in the 7 race model. So they are not even "Asian" in a genetic since. On the other hand, indigenous Americans, Australians, and Melanesian cluster with Asians in the 3 race model.

    Replies: @bob sykes

    Aryans recognize each other despite skin color and stick together. Iranians are in the club, too.

  32. China and India have civilizations thousands of years old and are thus superior to our western culture. So say Chinese and East Indian acquaintances. I never knew that and was suitably impressed after all in four thousand years their most revolutionary inventions were the chopsticks and the rickshaw.

    Here in the backward and uncultured west a person who needs to take a leak can stop at a roadside gas station or fast food outlet and use those old fashioned urinals, you know the ones that flush into a waste disposal system. This of course is time consuming and ergonomically backward.

    Just to show you, in this most simple of tasks India is way ahead of us. If you need to take a pee, no need to search around for a restaurant and all that. You just stop at the nearest lamp post, whip out your Johnson and urinate. For defecation the side of the road will do or a discrete gutter. I wont comment on China and their advantage over the backward west. That would also take too long.

    Notice though, that more Chinese and Indians immigrate to to western countries than whites in the other direction. They tell me they are bringing their advanced and superior culture to our lands in an effort to help us improve ourselves.

    The Joker agrees and could not be more grateful. I mean, we have set their civilizations backwards to almost prehistoric times. These people now drive cars, use cell phones, computers, the internet, fly here and there in jets and wear decadent western clothes. They also use toilet paper for heavens sake. We have demeaned them ! We have also polluted them with the English language while showing no interest in learning their “gibberish”.

    Who knows, in 4000 years we may advance to riding bicycles, travelling by sailboats, sending written messages by pigeons, and using very public facilities to do relieve ourselves.

    We here in the US have a culture only a few hundred years old. We have a long way to go to get to their standards. Dont say the Joker did not warn you !

    • Agree: PaceLaw
    • Replies: @Alden
    @The Grim Joker

    I must remind you that Chinese invented the most useful and wonderful thing ever ever.

    Wallpaper!!!!!!!

    Second most useful and wonderful thing ever, crippling upper class women as a status symbol. “ I’m so rich I can afford to buy extra slaves to carry my wife and daughters around!!!!!!!

  33. “prejudice (intergroup)”

    How about intragroup? In addition to ethnic nepotism, in my experience at least the successful South Asians here tend to be very culturally white, so fit in well culturally and seem “familiar” to whites in power in a way that East Asians do not.

  34. Where do the SW Asians rank, hmmmm?

  35. @Reg Cæsar

    the Madras Floor
     
    Chennai! Chennai!

    Wash it down with your Mumbai Sapphire Gin, after some crab Yangon or Beijing duck.

    Make sure to pick up some Myanmar Shave on the way home-- your stubble is showing. And don't miss the Foghorn Livorno marathon coming up on the Cartoon Network.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Autochthon

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @PiltdownMan

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/rf/image_size_960x540/HT/p2/2018/05/08/Pictures/_8f51f2ca-5289-11e8-aa60-d0af28d4422a.JPG

    https://www.eduopinions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Peking-University-PKU-logo-140x100.png

    http://www.neance.fr/3256-pos_medium/logo-ps4-controller-juventus-turin.jpg


    https://image.sggp.org.vn/w560/Uploaded/2020/nkdkswkqoc/original/images235910_1.jpg

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Autochthon

  36. Anonymous[107] • Disclaimer says:

    Speaking as an East Asian, several factors are in play here:

    1) Poor English skills. Many first gen East Asian immigrants speak with a heavy accent and aren’t easy to understand. This is especially prevalent in the tech industry.

    2) Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren’t helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as “leadership skills”. As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, “Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up.”

    3) Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don’t have those epicanthic folds. Nobody’s afraid of the East Asian manager.

    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they’re better workers but because they’re easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    I meant to say "many have even more self-hate than liberal whites."

    , @PaceLaw
    @Anonymous

    Well said. The East Asian (Confucian?) tendency towards group think and not making waves can’t be understated.

    https://cesa.rc.iseg.ulisboa.pt/Three%20Confucian%20Values.pdf

    , @ATBOTL
    @Anonymous


    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they’re better workers but because they’re easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.
     
    East Asians are not as clannish as Indians, but they are more clannish than whites.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren’t helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as “leadership skills”. As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, “Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up.”
     
    Does that really apply to today's Chinese? Japanese may be, but Americans who've been to China say Chinese are often loud, vulgar, and rambunctious. And isn't Hong Kong a rather wild place? People there and in Singapore must have had social skills to make so many deals with the West. And when US invaded Iraq, Chinese merchants stormed in at great risk. These people don't strike me as timid.

    That said, perhaps what matters is set and setting. And this goes for Hindus too. A people of one caste may be loud and abrasive among each other(and to members of lower castes) but downright deferential to people of higher caste/status. Maybe the caste system made the Indians more adept at negotiating because so much of what they said and did depended on context of setting. Hindu mind had to adapt from place to place, from person to person.

    Maybe some groups are quieter among themselves and louder with outsiders while other groups are the opposite.

    Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don’t have those epicanthic folds.
     
    But Jews aren't particularly tall. And goy Ross Perot didn't let height get in the way of his power. And Putin and Mussolini too.
    Blacks look even more different from whites, but whites are more deferential to blacks. Now, one could argue that while a people are more disposed to be antagonistic towards people who look different, there are taboos in place against hostile feelings toward blacks and Jews whereas none such exist against certain groups like Asians and Arabs. Thus, negative white feelings toward Asians are allowed bigger leeway.

    East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.
     
    But is that the main issue? Jews often drive each other crazy, indeed even more so. Rather, the problem is the East Asian mind is centered on status and hierarchy than identity and roots, or at least since modernization cut off Confucian roots and replaced it with the nuclear family. It seems East Asian rootedness is linked to way-of-life, not so much to a way-of-thinking. In contrast, Jews and Hindus, even in nuclear family setting, have a way-of-thinking that is spiritually, historically, and culturally identity-driven. Both Hinduism and Judaism are ethno-religions, merging of spirituality and identity. Thus, a Jew or Hindu, no matter where he is, feels special and unique. In contrast, the main emphasis of East Asian society has been TO SERVE. 'Bushi', the term for samurai, means not to lead but to serve.

    So, when a Hindu and East Asian approach an organization, the former feels special and unique, someone who will try to weasel and negotiate to rise as high as possible whereas the East Asian is, above all, eager to serve and prove his worth by show of loyalty.

    At any rate, the West is now in a schizo state because of its cult of freedom and cult of PC. They are contradictory to the max. In a way, Joe Biden's advantage has been the willingness to cut loose and say whatever. But he's said so many wrong things, and this is getting him in hot water. Bloomberg in his more candid moments spoke the truth about race and crime. Now, he's in trouble over that.

    Or consider Rich Lowry. He's a total mouse and wusskin, and yet Buckley chose him because he was a good boy who didn't stir up trouble. Indeed, you have to be a cuck-dork white male make it up the ladder.

    Alt Right guys have been forthright and honest, but they've been punished. Nick Fuentes is off youtube. The totally spineless Charlie Kirk has been promoted.

    If PC favors deference and teachers pet mentality, then East Asians should be favored. But then, they are not.

    Maybe what the current order wants is someone with big personality but small courage(and integrity). Someone who acts like a leader but mostly defers to the Power. Just look at the GOP stable. Big tough guys against Iran and Russia but such sappy dogs before Zion.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Anonymous


    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they’re better workers but because they’re easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

     

    Could you elaborate more on this point?

    I'm curious how East Asian clannishness compares to the type of clannishness you see among Jews, Indians, Middle Easterners, etc.
  37. @Anonymous
    Speaking as an East Asian, several factors are in play here:

    1) Poor English skills. Many first gen East Asian immigrants speak with a heavy accent and aren't easy to understand. This is especially prevalent in the tech industry.

    2) Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren't helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as "leadership skills". As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, "Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up."

    3) Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don't have those epicanthic folds. Nobody's afraid of the East Asian manager.

    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they're better workers but because they're easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @PaceLaw, @ATBOTL, @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    I meant to say “many have even more self-hate than liberal whites.”

  38. Only Civnats and cuckservatives would consider this a problem; for they are a rootless people without any loyalty to their nation.

  39. This study identifies assertiveness (mirrored by pheromones) as a key to success in business in comparing East Asians (Chinese) and South Asians (Indians).

    Most Americans interact with such people by telephone, and much could be learned if researchers were to focus their attention on the international telephone solicitation business. It is sometimes said that Indians and Pakistanis have better English skills than Chinese and Koreans, but East Asians can more easily learn to put on a Subcontinental English accent than an American or Canadian accent. In fact, now that the Wuhan virus limits travel by Chinese, we will see more stay-at-home Chinese targeting North Americans with telephone solicitations for business opportunities and low-interest loans.

    As a consumer, I enjoy such telephone interactions as a form of free live entertainment. Although I berate these Chinese callers for putting on a phony Indian or Pakistani accent, my deprecation of their anti-Subcontinental racism has had no effect.

  40. @Reg Cæsar
    @BB753


    Are you saying that South Asians ‘ secret weapon is their smelly armpits?
     
    With all that powder, perfume, and patchouli, they are often the nicest-smelling people on the planet!


    But, yeah, do take the doo to the loo.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pj4L7C2twI

    Replies: @BB753

    Unfortunately, for most South Asians, the loo lies in the open air and there’s no flush!

    • Replies: @Just passing through
    @BB753

    Why is it that India is known for open defecation when there are various countries in Africa that have much higher open-defecation rates?

    Is it just funny to mention because they do things like sending probes to Mars but can't build toilets for the vast swathes of the population?

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @BB753, @Anonymous

  41. @The Alarmist
    @BB753

    IOW, South Asians are on the whole more sociopathic.

    Replies: @BB753, @Anon, @Jus' Sayin'...

    And neurotic, aren’t they?

    • Replies: @Spangel
    @BB753

    No, I don’t think so. Seems East Asians are clearly more neurotic than south Asians. Neuroticism is not something south Asians share with Jews.

  42. Do corporate Indians integrate? Do they drop Hinduism, the caste system, and marry whites and Asians? Do they leave India behind. It seems we could handle having a few million dark skinned Americans, but if they’re a people who dwell alone, an exploitive elite, and the vanguard of an invasion, then they need to be repatriated. Hopefully the income and wealth leveling of the Sanders presidency will make the feel unwelcome enough to go back voluntarily.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Rob


    Do corporate Indians integrate? Do they drop Hinduism, the caste system, and marry whites and Asians? Do they leave India behind.
     
    No. No. No.

    Next questions!
    , @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @Rob

    There is something interesting I observed in US. Indian Americans always give Indian names to their kids. Where as Chinese give Americanized names. I met Jennifer (Wang)/ Kevin (Liu) etc but unless someone is an Indian Christian, I did not see Indian parents naming their kids Joe/John/Steve etc. So No. Indian Americans will not give up Hinduism. As far as caste is concerned, it's influence is continuously going both in India as well as abroad. It will continue to go down.
    First generation immigrant obviously will not marry white/Asians. Even in second generation, Indian Americans are probably not likely to marry outside of race. May be they are not see as high value catch by Whites/Asians.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @SOL
    @Rob

    I've seen plenty of first-gen Indian immigrants dating or even marrying white women, and a few Chinese women, and many of the women are not unattractive. What's the analogue of burning the coal here? I do think they value white women for some reason.

  43. @Anonymous
    Does that mean East Asians will reach higher IF they act more assertive? Maybe. Maybe not.

    It could be that Americans are more willing to tolerate, accept, and even admire assertiveness in certain groups than others.

    For example, if blacks act funky, it's seen as natural. If Asians act funky, it's seen as weird and ridiculous.

    There may also be the China vs India factor. American elites see China as the bigger threat than India. Notice how Trump always says 'China' in a funny way but is more positive about India and Indians.
    Also, there are many news about Chinese spying on the US, but not much about Hindus(or Israelis) spying on the US.

    Also, colorfulness than assertiveness may matter more in rising up the ranks. Consider the problems of 'leaning-in' among feminists.

    https://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2016/11/big-feminism-fails.html

    It's a one-dimensional strategy. Being pushy and demanding. The problem is such attitude is often seem annoying, even offensive. Higher-ups prefer those who suck up to them, not those who demand stuff. While higher-ups look for people with leadership qualities, they also look for deferential(to higher ups) and flexible qualities. The passive/aggressive and adaptable type.

    So, East Asians won't gain more by simply acting more assertive. Rather, they have to more attentive, better at picking up signals and more at being chameleon-like.
    The problem for East Asians may not only be that they are sometimes too deferential but too rigid in their pride or principle. It's the samurai with do-or-die mentality. And if someone make him lose face, he may hate the person forever. Think of Mishima and John Nathan. When Nathan declined to translate a Mishima novel, Mishima totally shut him out of his life. Consider Kurosawa and Mifune. After Mifune wasn't 100% with Kurosawa in the filming of RED BEARD, Kurosawa never worked with him again.

    In contrast, look at the Hindus in the movie GURU. They shit on each other in the worst possible way but they are still talking, still being sociable, still dropping in on each other. Hindus are more immune to insults, slights, and etc. They have a higher tolerance for bad shit, just like hindus have higher immunity to all sorts of filth in India.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93H0Wi3GfY

    When East Asians run red hot, they are red hot. When they run cold, they run cold. But Hindu 'temperature' goes all over the gauge according to the needs of the moment. East Asian knows how to play master or slave but the Hindu knows how to play both and everything in between. It's like some hindu gods have eight arms. East Asians are more like shellfish. Hindus are more like the octopus with constantly changing colors.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydrc489USbM

    It's like Jews had advantage over Italians because they were passive/aggressive whereas Italians tended to be just aggressive/aggressive. If it came down to Sonny vs Hyman Roth, who's gonna win?

    Replies: @Lugash, @Bucky

    There may also be the China vs India factor. American elites see China as the bigger threat than India. Notice how Trump always says ‘China’ in a funny way but is more positive about India and Indians.
    Also, there are many news about Chinese spying on the US, but not much about Hindus(or Israelis) spying on the US.

    One of the real undernews stories of the Trump presidency has been how skillfully India and Modi have played Trump. Kashmir got rolled up without a peep from the US press or establishment.

  44. @The Alarmist
    @BB753

    IOW, South Asians are on the whole more sociopathic.

    Replies: @BB753, @Anon, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Why would you say that? Asians seem pretty sociopathic to me.

  45. @Mr McKenna

    East Asians were lower in assertiveness
     
    Yeesh, that may be their one saving grace, so let's train them out of it.

    I've an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia? Why is that so hard? I bet they'll find the 'cultural fit' quite agreeable. It's worth trying.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon, @Twinkie, @donut

    Agree . I brought this up before : the country is flooded with Indian and to a lesser extent Chinese doctors but the number of doctors of Japanese descent I can count on one hand and one of those was mixed White and Japanese . The West coast may be different with some small Japanese communities that have been here for generations .

    • Agree: HammerJack
  46. @BB753
    Perhaps it's more a matter of South Asians having more chutzpah, that is, less conscientiousness, more brazenness, high verbality and a natural talent for improvising BS.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @donut

    The next time there is a big Medicare/Medicaid fraud scandal check the names , overwhelmingly East Indian .

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @donut

    East Indian?

  47. It looks like these academics don’t know how businesses work; It is all about earnings. If a CEO brings in oodles of profits/stock appreciation, he/she/it is God; The moment that ends, he/she/it is a dog and will be put to pasture. Any one thinks Microsoft, Google or IBM will hold on to their CEOs for a nanosecond if the CEO doesn’t bring in enough EPS? See Intel & Boeing, how quickly they showed the door for white male CEOs. IBM took a while to shoo their CEO because she was a female and paid dearly for that. There is no ceiling or floor at highest levels; it is all money, money, money; all the time.

  48. Indian American CEOs of well known companies

    IBM – Arvind Krishna
    Google – Sundar Pichai
    Microsoft – Satya Nadella
    Mastercard – Ajay Banga
    Adobe – Shantanu Narayan
    Diageo – Ivan Menezes
    Reckitt Benckiser – L Narsimhan
    Nokia – Rajeev Suri
    Novartis – VK Narasimhan

    But..but..Indians are only good at climbing up the corporate ladder (by manipulating gullible whites). They are not creative enough to start new companies!

    National Foundation for American Policy did a study in 2018 on Unicorn startups (over $1 Billion companies). They found 87 such unicorns. 14 were started by Indians who topped the list followed by Canada & UK (8) , Israel (7) Germany (4) and then China (3).

    • Replies: @Lot
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    The biggest start-ups by Indians seem to be corporate software companies that hire H1Bs and convince companies to outsource IT work to them.

    , @MG
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    As an Indian, I can confirm that Indians are masters at talking a good game. The Indian CEOs of Google and Microsoft contributed bupkis to technology but were smart enough to show up at the right time. Same story with most other CEO Indians.

    If every single Indian currently in the US had never set foot here, your life would be no different today, technologically speaking.

    Replies: @Edward, @82-IQ H1B Indian

    , @J.Ross
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    Startups are a bad criterion to point to, for a while now a lot of idiot-angel-investor money has been thrown at terrible ideas which fail soon enough, or never do, because they lay folks off and then get more money.

  49. @The Alarmist
    @BB753

    IOW, South Asians are on the whole more sociopathic.

    Replies: @BB753, @Anon, @Jus' Sayin'...

    That’s been my personal experience.

  50. This is also a sideways argument that CEOs don’t really matter.

    East Asia apparently doesn’t make top rate C suite people as they get elbowed aside in the US. But they make world class companies, lots and lots of them.

    South Asia makes lots of CEOs so whatever it takes for corporate leadership–they got it. But they can’t make any world class companies in India.

    This would suggest that what’s actually important is the characteristics of the rank and file, not the leadership class.

    • Replies: @Edward
    @SimpleSong

    Tata is a world-class company that was set up in India, which has taken over a number of Britain's most treasured car companies. Mittal Steel was one of the largest producers of steel in the world, and is now the largest, set up by the Indian-born billionaire Lakshmi Mittal (I believe he has British citizenship now). In 2005 Mittal was the third-richest person in the world. I'd argue that InfoSys is another world-class company.

    As for CEOs not mattering, the evidence suggests otherwise. Indra Nooyi, an Indian-American, was the CEO of PepsiCo. She was widely regarded as one of the best CEOs in the world.

    Similarly, the Indian-American Satya Nadella has been credited with turning around Microsoft's fortunes. He was named the Financial Times's person of the year in 2019:


    Microsoft was at risk of technological irrelevance but the chief executive has presided over an era of stunning wealth creation... The growing wealth and power of Big Tech over the past decade has been a defining feature of modern capitalism. Yet even judged by the standards of most of his peers, Mr Nadella stands out.

    By the end of November, the total return generated for Microsoft shareholders during his near-six year tenure passed $1tn. Contrast that with the moment when he took over as only the third CEO in Microsoft’s history, and the software company looked like it might be on the fast track to technological irrelevance.
     

    https://www.ft.com/content/0e8c3002-20c7-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96

    Indians in the West are the new Ashkenazi Jews. The former UK Conservative Party Deputy Chairman, Lord Jeffrey Archer, was very prescient in 2008:


    Lord Archer: Indians are the ‘new Jews’ and are taking over Britain

    Britain is being “taken over” by Indians and will one day have an Indian prime minister, according to Tory peer Lord Archer.
     

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/2066401/Lord-Archer-Indians-are-the-new-Jews-and-are-taking-over-Britain.html

    Indeed, who do we have in the UK Conservative Government's Cabinet? The second-most powerful person in the country, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Finance Minister), is the Oxford and Stanford-educated Rishi Sunak, who is himself married to the Stanford-educated daughter of an Indian billionaire. The third-most powerful politician in the country is Priti Patel, whose Indian parents fled Uganda when Idi Amin tried to expel them. And the Business Secretary (who has also been put in charge of the UN Climate Change Conference to be held in Glasgow), is Alok Sharma.

    One of the top three contenders to be the next Leader of the Opposition (leader of the Labour Party) in the UK is Lisa Nandy, who is the daughter of an Indian-born academic and his English wife.

    Interestingly, and contrary to some of the comments above, British Indians do not appear to be too ethnocentric:


    British Indians are twice as likely to marry outside their ethnic group as British Pakistanis are; 70 per cent of British Indian women work, which is close to the national average. And according to the think tank Demos, they are far more likely to live in multi-ethnic neighbourhoods, instead of the homogeneous areas where many British Pakistanis reside.
     
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html

    In the US, there appear to be lots of "HinJew" couples, particularly in the DC area. (Incidentally, at medical school at an elite UK university, I had a friend of Asian Indian origin who had a full-scale IQ north of 150. He was in the top three of the cohort, and got together with an Ashkenazi Jewish girl who was in the top three of her compsci cohort.)

    I suspect that some of the Indian-East Asian difference is due to verbal IQ (which might be why Indians and Jews attract each other). Indian-Americans have an estimated IQ of 112, similar to Ashkenazi Jews, and I suspect that Indian-Americans are all-rounders, in that their verbal IQ is similar to their non-verbal IQ (so, around 112 for each). East Asians, by contrast, have verbal IQs of around 100. Ashkenazi Jews might have verbal IQs of 120 or 125.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @SimpleSong, @JohnnyWalker123

  51. @BB753
    @Anonymous

    Are you saying that South Asians ' secret weapon is their smelly armpits?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ron Mexico, @Anon

    How is that working out for Arabs and Amish, two peoples who are my neighbors here in socentral Michigan? No representatives in corporate leadership as far as I can tell.

  52. @The Wild Geese Howard
    OT:

    Get your popcorn, folks!


    Defiant Meghan tells friends there's nothing 'legally stopping' her and Prince Harry from using their Sussex Royal name, despite Queen banning them from using it

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8021867/Defiant-Meghan-says-theres-legally-stopping-using-Sussex-Royal-name.html
     

    So, will it be the high speed paparazzi chase in the tunnel under Paris again, or some other method of dispatch?

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @JMcG, @BenKenobi

    I picture Harry sitting in his scuba gear like Brad Pitt in “Once Upon a Time in the West” fingering the trigger on his spear gun as she grates on and on and on about how he won’t stand up to his grandmawmaw.

  53. @PiltdownMan


    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Reg Cæsar

    The interesting example in my list is the Madras High Court, which is, of course, a part of the appellate judiciary and thus, part of the government. They haven’t bothered with the name change.

    I looked them up, and the Bombay and Calcutta High Courts haven’t changed their names either.

    Replies: @Malla

    , @Autochthon
    @Reg Cæsar

    Exactly. It's just like how Amerindians all call themselves ""Indians" and don't give a tinker's damn about the Atlanta Braves, the Washington Redskins, and the Cleveland Indians; nor do actual Irishmen mind the Fighting Irish and the Boston Celtics (despite the mispronunciation).

    This stuff is all for virtue-signalling jackasses, and the real people referred to are at worst indifferent, and, in many cases, flattered.

    Bring back McDonalds' (McDonald's?) Chicken Salad Oriental, I say!

  54. @Anonymous
    Does that mean East Asians will reach higher IF they act more assertive? Maybe. Maybe not.

    It could be that Americans are more willing to tolerate, accept, and even admire assertiveness in certain groups than others.

    For example, if blacks act funky, it's seen as natural. If Asians act funky, it's seen as weird and ridiculous.

    There may also be the China vs India factor. American elites see China as the bigger threat than India. Notice how Trump always says 'China' in a funny way but is more positive about India and Indians.
    Also, there are many news about Chinese spying on the US, but not much about Hindus(or Israelis) spying on the US.

    Also, colorfulness than assertiveness may matter more in rising up the ranks. Consider the problems of 'leaning-in' among feminists.

    https://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2016/11/big-feminism-fails.html

    It's a one-dimensional strategy. Being pushy and demanding. The problem is such attitude is often seem annoying, even offensive. Higher-ups prefer those who suck up to them, not those who demand stuff. While higher-ups look for people with leadership qualities, they also look for deferential(to higher ups) and flexible qualities. The passive/aggressive and adaptable type.

    So, East Asians won't gain more by simply acting more assertive. Rather, they have to more attentive, better at picking up signals and more at being chameleon-like.
    The problem for East Asians may not only be that they are sometimes too deferential but too rigid in their pride or principle. It's the samurai with do-or-die mentality. And if someone make him lose face, he may hate the person forever. Think of Mishima and John Nathan. When Nathan declined to translate a Mishima novel, Mishima totally shut him out of his life. Consider Kurosawa and Mifune. After Mifune wasn't 100% with Kurosawa in the filming of RED BEARD, Kurosawa never worked with him again.

    In contrast, look at the Hindus in the movie GURU. They shit on each other in the worst possible way but they are still talking, still being sociable, still dropping in on each other. Hindus are more immune to insults, slights, and etc. They have a higher tolerance for bad shit, just like hindus have higher immunity to all sorts of filth in India.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93H0Wi3GfY

    When East Asians run red hot, they are red hot. When they run cold, they run cold. But Hindu 'temperature' goes all over the gauge according to the needs of the moment. East Asian knows how to play master or slave but the Hindu knows how to play both and everything in between. It's like some hindu gods have eight arms. East Asians are more like shellfish. Hindus are more like the octopus with constantly changing colors.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydrc489USbM

    It's like Jews had advantage over Italians because they were passive/aggressive whereas Italians tended to be just aggressive/aggressive. If it came down to Sonny vs Hyman Roth, who's gonna win?

    Replies: @Lugash, @Bucky

    Beyond that, probably personal interactions with East Asians plays a role in the perception of China, one that is unfair and overly aggressive. A large part really is a feeling that Asians are a silent threat, are quietly malicious, etc and that their countries are covertly evil. This is due to the general reticent nature of East Asians more than any genuine malice.

  55. @The Wild Geese Howard
    OT:

    Get your popcorn, folks!


    Defiant Meghan tells friends there's nothing 'legally stopping' her and Prince Harry from using their Sussex Royal name, despite Queen banning them from using it

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8021867/Defiant-Meghan-says-theres-legally-stopping-using-Sussex-Royal-name.html
     

    So, will it be the high speed paparazzi chase in the tunnel under Paris again, or some other method of dispatch?

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @JMcG, @BenKenobi

    I made this one a few years back:

    https://ibb.co/Q9GLCQv

  56. East Asians tend to be of shorter stature, and CEOs tend to be over 6 feet tall so that they can look down on their subordinates.

    This could have something to do with diet.

    https://www.premiumtimesng.com/entertainment/naija-fashion/203429-many-ceos-tall-people-height-matter-bisi-daniels.html

  57. Has anyone noticed that Chinese men, presumably only children, complain a lot more than the average bear? Just wonderin’.

  58. It’s always great watching American untouchables come out of the woodwork when Steve posts a race article. Hello untouchables! I won’t shake your hand because eww, but I derive immense sustenance from how salty you’re getting.
    Special hello to my UK race bros – keep your daughter’s safe from Paki grooming gangs. Remember, we need people to man the fish and chip shops and overpriced black cabs, innit.

    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    @GS

    Black cab drivers are mostly white guys. Black cabs are used by Important People, and they feel safer with drivers with triple digit IQ.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/t-magazine/london-taxi-test-knowledge.html

  59. Anonymous[408] • Disclaimer says:

    Ajit Jain might succeed Buffett at Berkshire.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajit_Jain

    He’s an insurance guy. So it would be another handoff to a custodian same as Microsoft and Google.

    It will likely be him or a white guy from Canada who also looks to be just a custodian.

    Here is the just released 2019 letter from Buffett (easily most read annual investment report in the entire world):

    https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/2019ar/2019ar.pdf

    Buffett represents another extreme example of White Magic. It can’t be replaced.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Anonymous


    custodian
     
    https://youtu.be/RmEOz85OVG0?t=9
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Anonymous


    Buffett represents another extreme example of White Magic. It can’t be replaced.
     
    Let's not forget that he started investing near the start of the post-WW2 boom, possibly the greatest economic bonanza of all-time, which is also irreplaceable and irreproducible.

    I will admit that he was smart about controlling his costs in the beginning of his investing career.

    He also seems to be a lot more grounded than you'd expect someone with $75 billion to be:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/28/warren-buffett-would-be-very-happy-making-100000-a-year.html
  60. @Ed
    I work from home a day at week, when I do I normally watch CNBC. It’s not unusual to have panels where the guests are all of South Asian descent. Then of course there are the CEOs of top companies like Microsoft and Google. South Asians are really doing well in America. Heck it appears Boris Johnson has quite a few South Asians as top ministers. One is his Home Secretary and another a treasury official.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    Yes, but they had the whole British Empire thing going on.

  61. @Dan Hayes
    Did this study account for the cronyism which South Asians are past masters?

    Replies: @Desiderius

    past?

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Desiderius

    Revised to read: past, present, and future masters!

  62. @Anonymous
    Ajit Jain might succeed Buffett at Berkshire.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajit_Jain

    He's an insurance guy. So it would be another handoff to a custodian same as Microsoft and Google.

    It will likely be him or a white guy from Canada who also looks to be just a custodian.

    Here is the just released 2019 letter from Buffett (easily most read annual investment report in the entire world):

    https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/2019ar/2019ar.pdf

    Buffett represents another extreme example of White Magic. It can't be replaced.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @The Wild Geese Howard

    custodian

  63. @BB753
    @Anonymous

    Are you saying that South Asians ' secret weapon is their smelly armpits?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ron Mexico, @Anon

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Anon

    Lion of the Blogosphere seems to possess an excessively sensitive olphactory system. As with any other superpower, with great power comes great responsibility. I suggest our blogger suffer in silence South Asian smells. Perhaps he could use his superpower to become an expert connoisseur in South Asian cuisine?

  64. As more South Asians come to the us, it will make less and less sense for there to exist an umbrella category of “Asians” for demographic purposes. Everyone knows East and south Asians aren’t similar.

  65. @BB753
    @The Alarmist

    And neurotic, aren't they?

    Replies: @Spangel

    No, I don’t think so. Seems East Asians are clearly more neurotic than south Asians. Neuroticism is not something south Asians share with Jews.

  66. The named people who have made to leadership positions in American companies come almost 100% from the real upper castes of India, the forefathers of these people got themselves entrenched in the upper echelon’s of India’s society about 2500 years ago without firing a single bullet or swinging a sword, now they are doing the exact same thing here in US. Back in India the ascendancy of these peoples forefathers meant a society went from being at top of the world during post Indus Valley civilization period to the bottom of the world where it still exists today. Remember most people in this valley civilization. Had drinking water and sanitation in their homes, something that most people in India today do not have!!!!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation_of_the_Indus_Valley_Civilisation

    You pilgrims face a stark choice, stop their ascendancy or your descendants in future will be like the lower caste people in India today.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @indocon

    White males are already - politically and legally - the Dalits of North America and western Europe.

    As strange and seemingly counter intuitive as that statement might seem.

    Replies: @indocon, @Reg Cæsar

  67. @Anonymous
    Speaking as an East Asian, several factors are in play here:

    1) Poor English skills. Many first gen East Asian immigrants speak with a heavy accent and aren't easy to understand. This is especially prevalent in the tech industry.

    2) Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren't helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as "leadership skills". As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, "Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up."

    3) Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don't have those epicanthic folds. Nobody's afraid of the East Asian manager.

    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they're better workers but because they're easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @PaceLaw, @ATBOTL, @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    Well said. The East Asian (Confucian?) tendency towards group think and not making waves can’t be understated.

    https://cesa.rc.iseg.ulisboa.pt/Three%20Confucian%20Values.pdf

  68. @Rob
    Do corporate Indians integrate? Do they drop Hinduism, the caste system, and marry whites and Asians? Do they leave India behind. It seems we could handle having a few million dark skinned Americans, but if they’re a people who dwell alone, an exploitive elite, and the vanguard of an invasion, then they need to be repatriated. Hopefully the income and wealth leveling of the Sanders presidency will make the feel unwelcome enough to go back voluntarily.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @SOL

    Do corporate Indians integrate? Do they drop Hinduism, the caste system, and marry whites and Asians? Do they leave India behind.

    No. No. No.

    Next questions!

  69. @Anonymous
    Ajit Jain might succeed Buffett at Berkshire.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajit_Jain

    He's an insurance guy. So it would be another handoff to a custodian same as Microsoft and Google.

    It will likely be him or a white guy from Canada who also looks to be just a custodian.

    Here is the just released 2019 letter from Buffett (easily most read annual investment report in the entire world):

    https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/2019ar/2019ar.pdf

    Buffett represents another extreme example of White Magic. It can't be replaced.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Buffett represents another extreme example of White Magic. It can’t be replaced.

    Let’s not forget that he started investing near the start of the post-WW2 boom, possibly the greatest economic bonanza of all-time, which is also irreplaceable and irreproducible.

    I will admit that he was smart about controlling his costs in the beginning of his investing career.

    He also seems to be a lot more grounded than you’d expect someone with $75 billion to be:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/28/warren-buffett-would-be-very-happy-making-100000-a-year.html

  70. @Twinkie
    @Hypnotoad666


    Actually, the Harvard admission case settled the issue. The judge agreed with Harvard’s defense that it was entitled to prefer White students with similar test scores because Asians have objectively worse personalities.

    Since Harvard is all about picking future leaders, maybe they were on to something after all.
     
    Yup. By the same logic, Jews have the best personalities, eh? And the same Harvard case revealed that its admissions views South Asians as more victim-y than East Asians. What a surprise!

    Replies: @Lot, @Lot

    Who’s been evolving for the tech ceo role the past 1000 years?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Lot

    Yup, the Jews pioneered the merit-based exam system to choose government officials for thousands of years.

    Oh, wait, those were East Asians.

    No, Jews were serving as rapacious middlemen tax collectors to kings and despots and oppressed the peasantry for hundreds of years. Yup, perfect for CEOs of tech companies.

    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Confucian.jpg

    https://smoodock45.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/levi-the-tax-collector.jpg

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  71. @GS
    It's always great watching American untouchables come out of the woodwork when Steve posts a race article. Hello untouchables! I won't shake your hand because eww, but I derive immense sustenance from how salty you're getting.
    Special hello to my UK race bros - keep your daughter's safe from Paki grooming gangs. Remember, we need people to man the fish and chip shops and overpriced black cabs, innit.

    Replies: @jimmyriddle

    Black cab drivers are mostly white guys. Black cabs are used by Important People, and they feel safer with drivers with triple digit IQ.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/t-magazine/london-taxi-test-knowledge.html

  72. @82-IQ H1B Indian
    Indian American CEOs of well known companies

    IBM - Arvind Krishna
    Google - Sundar Pichai
    Microsoft - Satya Nadella
    Mastercard - Ajay Banga
    Adobe - Shantanu Narayan
    Diageo - Ivan Menezes
    Reckitt Benckiser - L Narsimhan
    Nokia - Rajeev Suri
    Novartis - VK Narasimhan

    But..but..Indians are only good at climbing up the corporate ladder (by manipulating gullible whites). They are not creative enough to start new companies!

    National Foundation for American Policy did a study in 2018 on Unicorn startups (over $1 Billion companies). They found 87 such unicorns. 14 were started by Indians who topped the list followed by Canada & UK (8) , Israel (7) Germany (4) and then China (3).

    Replies: @Lot, @MG, @J.Ross

    The biggest start-ups by Indians seem to be corporate software companies that hire H1Bs and convince companies to outsource IT work to them.

  73. @Anon
    @BB753

    Lion of the Blogosphere has written about Indian BO in his workplace. It's an olfactory dominance display.

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2018/04/13/comey-and-indian-body-odor/

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2017/06/07/i-smell-indian-bo/

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2017/06/23/indian-bo-is-back/

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2019/06/21/i-smell-bo-in-nj/

    Replies: @BB753

    Lion of the Blogosphere seems to possess an excessively sensitive olphactory system. As with any other superpower, with great power comes great responsibility. I suggest our blogger suffer in silence South Asian smells. Perhaps he could use his superpower to become an expert connoisseur in South Asian cuisine?

  74. @Twinkie
    @Hypnotoad666


    Actually, the Harvard admission case settled the issue. The judge agreed with Harvard’s defense that it was entitled to prefer White students with similar test scores because Asians have objectively worse personalities.

    Since Harvard is all about picking future leaders, maybe they were on to something after all.
     
    Yup. By the same logic, Jews have the best personalities, eh? And the same Harvard case revealed that its admissions views South Asians as more victim-y than East Asians. What a surprise!

    Replies: @Lot, @Lot

  75. @Rob
    Do corporate Indians integrate? Do they drop Hinduism, the caste system, and marry whites and Asians? Do they leave India behind. It seems we could handle having a few million dark skinned Americans, but if they’re a people who dwell alone, an exploitive elite, and the vanguard of an invasion, then they need to be repatriated. Hopefully the income and wealth leveling of the Sanders presidency will make the feel unwelcome enough to go back voluntarily.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @SOL

    There is something interesting I observed in US. Indian Americans always give Indian names to their kids. Where as Chinese give Americanized names. I met Jennifer (Wang)/ Kevin (Liu) etc but unless someone is an Indian Christian, I did not see Indian parents naming their kids Joe/John/Steve etc. So No. Indian Americans will not give up Hinduism. As far as caste is concerned, it’s influence is continuously going both in India as well as abroad. It will continue to go down.
    First generation immigrant obviously will not marry white/Asians. Even in second generation, Indian Americans are probably not likely to marry outside of race. May be they are not see as high value catch by Whites/Asians.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    1) When Europeans landed in Virginia, did they adopt the religion of the Native Americans? Did they start giving their kids names like Geronimo? Why do they still practice Christianity which has nothing to do with the Americas? Why should we Indians drop our religion which we have had going back 3,000 years? At least we have our own religion, and not some offshoot of someone else's religion from the Middle East. Our religion survived close to a thousand years of Turk Islamic conquest and a few hundred years of European Christian conquest. Unless you can give me some proof of the miracles of your God who makes prayers demonstrably come true, I see no reason to dishonor my ancestral roots.

    2) It's clear you guys don't like dark people marrying white women. So when Hindus have a preference even in America for marrying within their own community (and often within their own caste still), why are you so bothered by it?

    Replies: @Malla, @Twinkie

  76. @Anonymous
    Speaking as an East Asian, several factors are in play here:

    1) Poor English skills. Many first gen East Asian immigrants speak with a heavy accent and aren't easy to understand. This is especially prevalent in the tech industry.

    2) Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren't helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as "leadership skills". As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, "Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up."

    3) Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don't have those epicanthic folds. Nobody's afraid of the East Asian manager.

    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they're better workers but because they're easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @PaceLaw, @ATBOTL, @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they’re better workers but because they’re easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    East Asians are not as clannish as Indians, but they are more clannish than whites.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ATBOTL

    East Asian clannishness is only among the FOBs who came from the same country. Those who speak fluent English and/or second gen. tend to be more self-repellent than liberal whites from conservative whites.

  77. @indocon
    The named people who have made to leadership positions in American companies come almost 100% from the real upper castes of India, the forefathers of these people got themselves entrenched in the upper echelon's of India's society about 2500 years ago without firing a single bullet or swinging a sword, now they are doing the exact same thing here in US. Back in India the ascendancy of these peoples forefathers meant a society went from being at top of the world during post Indus Valley civilization period to the bottom of the world where it still exists today. Remember most people in this valley civilization. Had drinking water and sanitation in their homes, something that most people in India today do not have!!!!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation_of_the_Indus_Valley_Civilisation

    You pilgrims face a stark choice, stop their ascendancy or your descendants in future will be like the lower caste people in India today.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    White males are already – politically and legally – the Dalits of North America and western Europe.

    As strange and seemingly counter intuitive as that statement might seem.

    • Replies: @indocon
    @Anonymous

    Come with me to the subcontinent to see the state of Dalits, you ain't seen anything yet.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    White males are already – politically and legally – the Dalits of North America and western Europe.
     
    I can't imagine Untouchables holding most of the top positions in subcontinental government, commerce, and academia, though.

    Replies: @Medvedev, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous

  78. Anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Speaking as an East Asian, several factors are in play here:

    1) Poor English skills. Many first gen East Asian immigrants speak with a heavy accent and aren't easy to understand. This is especially prevalent in the tech industry.

    2) Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren't helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as "leadership skills". As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, "Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up."

    3) Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don't have those epicanthic folds. Nobody's afraid of the East Asian manager.

    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they're better workers but because they're easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @PaceLaw, @ATBOTL, @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren’t helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as “leadership skills”. As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, “Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up.”

    Does that really apply to today’s Chinese? Japanese may be, but Americans who’ve been to China say Chinese are often loud, vulgar, and rambunctious. And isn’t Hong Kong a rather wild place? People there and in Singapore must have had social skills to make so many deals with the West. And when US invaded Iraq, Chinese merchants stormed in at great risk. These people don’t strike me as timid.

    That said, perhaps what matters is set and setting. And this goes for Hindus too. A people of one caste may be loud and abrasive among each other(and to members of lower castes) but downright deferential to people of higher caste/status. Maybe the caste system made the Indians more adept at negotiating because so much of what they said and did depended on context of setting. Hindu mind had to adapt from place to place, from person to person.

    Maybe some groups are quieter among themselves and louder with outsiders while other groups are the opposite.

    Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don’t have those epicanthic folds.

    But Jews aren’t particularly tall. And goy Ross Perot didn’t let height get in the way of his power. And Putin and Mussolini too.
    Blacks look even more different from whites, but whites are more deferential to blacks. Now, one could argue that while a people are more disposed to be antagonistic towards people who look different, there are taboos in place against hostile feelings toward blacks and Jews whereas none such exist against certain groups like Asians and Arabs. Thus, negative white feelings toward Asians are allowed bigger leeway.

    East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    But is that the main issue? Jews often drive each other crazy, indeed even more so. Rather, the problem is the East Asian mind is centered on status and hierarchy than identity and roots, or at least since modernization cut off Confucian roots and replaced it with the nuclear family. It seems East Asian rootedness is linked to way-of-life, not so much to a way-of-thinking. In contrast, Jews and Hindus, even in nuclear family setting, have a way-of-thinking that is spiritually, historically, and culturally identity-driven. Both Hinduism and Judaism are ethno-religions, merging of spirituality and identity. Thus, a Jew or Hindu, no matter where he is, feels special and unique. In contrast, the main emphasis of East Asian society has been TO SERVE. ‘Bushi’, the term for samurai, means not to lead but to serve.

    So, when a Hindu and East Asian approach an organization, the former feels special and unique, someone who will try to weasel and negotiate to rise as high as possible whereas the East Asian is, above all, eager to serve and prove his worth by show of loyalty.

    At any rate, the West is now in a schizo state because of its cult of freedom and cult of PC. They are contradictory to the max. In a way, Joe Biden’s advantage has been the willingness to cut loose and say whatever. But he’s said so many wrong things, and this is getting him in hot water. Bloomberg in his more candid moments spoke the truth about race and crime. Now, he’s in trouble over that.

    Or consider Rich Lowry. He’s a total mouse and wusskin, and yet Buckley chose him because he was a good boy who didn’t stir up trouble. Indeed, you have to be a cuck-dork white male make it up the ladder.

    Alt Right guys have been forthright and honest, but they’ve been punished. Nick Fuentes is off youtube. The totally spineless Charlie Kirk has been promoted.

    If PC favors deference and teachers pet mentality, then East Asians should be favored. But then, they are not.

    Maybe what the current order wants is someone with big personality but small courage(and integrity). Someone who acts like a leader but mostly defers to the Power. Just look at the GOP stable. Big tough guys against Iran and Russia but such sappy dogs before Zion.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Some good points there.

    Chinese are loud and obnoxious when among other Chinese. When among non-Chinese, they are easily cowed. That's why they can only succeed in their own countries.

    I can see how, due to the caste system, those in the upper castes are used to being top dog, so when they go to other societies, they continue to act like top dog due to higher confidence.

    Indians are also very much like Jews in that they are much more loquacious. First gen Indians may go into STEM because they need that H1b visa and green card, but by second generation they usually go into law, politics, banking, consulting, journalism, medicine like the Jews, while the East Asians tend to stick to STEM. The winners of US math and science Olympiads are overwhelmingly East Asian, while South Asians excel in spelling bee, Intel Science etc. that calls for research and presentation.

    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

    Indians are also power hungry like the Jews. Indian women are entering politics in droves. Their new shtick is claiming brown status. They are increasingly referring to themselves as "brown women" and "brown people of color", which increases their oppressed status. The US will soon be run over by these BAE -- Bullshit Artists of the East. (((Our masters))) prefer them because they are better bootlickers than whites but a little smarter and less violent than blacks and hispanics. We are well on our way to becoming the next India.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Malla, @JohnnyWalker123

  79. @The Grim Joker
    China and India have civilizations thousands of years old and are thus superior to our western culture. So say Chinese and East Indian acquaintances. I never knew that and was suitably impressed after all in four thousand years their most revolutionary inventions were the chopsticks and the rickshaw.

    Here in the backward and uncultured west a person who needs to take a leak can stop at a roadside gas station or fast food outlet and use those old fashioned urinals, you know the ones that flush into a waste disposal system. This of course is time consuming and ergonomically backward.

    Just to show you, in this most simple of tasks India is way ahead of us. If you need to take a pee, no need to search around for a restaurant and all that. You just stop at the nearest lamp post, whip out your Johnson and urinate. For defecation the side of the road will do or a discrete gutter. I wont comment on China and their advantage over the backward west. That would also take too long.

    Notice though, that more Chinese and Indians immigrate to to western countries than whites in the other direction. They tell me they are bringing their advanced and superior culture to our lands in an effort to help us improve ourselves.

    The Joker agrees and could not be more grateful. I mean, we have set their civilizations backwards to almost prehistoric times. These people now drive cars, use cell phones, computers, the internet, fly here and there in jets and wear decadent western clothes. They also use toilet paper for heavens sake. We have demeaned them ! We have also polluted them with the English language while showing no interest in learning their "gibberish".

    Who knows, in 4000 years we may advance to riding bicycles, travelling by sailboats, sending written messages by pigeons, and using very public facilities to do relieve ourselves.

    We here in the US have a culture only a few hundred years old. We have a long way to go to get to their standards. Dont say the Joker did not warn you !

    Replies: @Alden

    I must remind you that Chinese invented the most useful and wonderful thing ever ever.

    Wallpaper!!!!!!!

    Second most useful and wonderful thing ever, crippling upper class women as a status symbol. “ I’m so rich I can afford to buy extra slaves to carry my wife and daughters around!!!!!!!

  80. @Anonymous
    @indocon

    White males are already - politically and legally - the Dalits of North America and western Europe.

    As strange and seemingly counter intuitive as that statement might seem.

    Replies: @indocon, @Reg Cæsar

    Come with me to the subcontinent to see the state of Dalits, you ain’t seen anything yet.

  81. @SimpleSong
    This is also a sideways argument that CEOs don't really matter.

    East Asia apparently doesn't make top rate C suite people as they get elbowed aside in the US. But they make world class companies, lots and lots of them.

    South Asia makes lots of CEOs so whatever it takes for corporate leadership--they got it. But they can't make any world class companies in India.

    This would suggest that what's actually important is the characteristics of the rank and file, not the leadership class.

    Replies: @Edward

    Tata is a world-class company that was set up in India, which has taken over a number of Britain’s most treasured car companies. Mittal Steel was one of the largest producers of steel in the world, and is now the largest, set up by the Indian-born billionaire Lakshmi Mittal (I believe he has British citizenship now). In 2005 Mittal was the third-richest person in the world. I’d argue that InfoSys is another world-class company.

    As for CEOs not mattering, the evidence suggests otherwise. Indra Nooyi, an Indian-American, was the CEO of PepsiCo. She was widely regarded as one of the best CEOs in the world.

    Similarly, the Indian-American Satya Nadella has been credited with turning around Microsoft’s fortunes. He was named the Financial Times’s person of the year in 2019:

    Microsoft was at risk of technological irrelevance but the chief executive has presided over an era of stunning wealth creation… The growing wealth and power of Big Tech over the past decade has been a defining feature of modern capitalism. Yet even judged by the standards of most of his peers, Mr Nadella stands out.

    By the end of November, the total return generated for Microsoft shareholders during his near-six year tenure passed $1tn. Contrast that with the moment when he took over as only the third CEO in Microsoft’s history, and the software company looked like it might be on the fast track to technological irrelevance.

    https://www.ft.com/content/0e8c3002-20c7-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96

    Indians in the West are the new Ashkenazi Jews. The former UK Conservative Party Deputy Chairman, Lord Jeffrey Archer, was very prescient in 2008:

    Lord Archer: Indians are the ‘new Jews’ and are taking over Britain

    Britain is being “taken over” by Indians and will one day have an Indian prime minister, according to Tory peer Lord Archer.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/2066401/Lord-Archer-Indians-are-the-new-Jews-and-are-taking-over-Britain.html

    Indeed, who do we have in the UK Conservative Government’s Cabinet? The second-most powerful person in the country, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Finance Minister), is the Oxford and Stanford-educated Rishi Sunak, who is himself married to the Stanford-educated daughter of an Indian billionaire. The third-most powerful politician in the country is Priti Patel, whose Indian parents fled Uganda when Idi Amin tried to expel them. And the Business Secretary (who has also been put in charge of the UN Climate Change Conference to be held in Glasgow), is Alok Sharma.

    One of the top three contenders to be the next Leader of the Opposition (leader of the Labour Party) in the UK is Lisa Nandy, who is the daughter of an Indian-born academic and his English wife.

    Interestingly, and contrary to some of the comments above, British Indians do not appear to be too ethnocentric:

    British Indians are twice as likely to marry outside their ethnic group as British Pakistanis are; 70 per cent of British Indian women work, which is close to the national average. And according to the think tank Demos, they are far more likely to live in multi-ethnic neighbourhoods, instead of the homogeneous areas where many British Pakistanis reside.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html

    In the US, there appear to be lots of “HinJew” couples, particularly in the DC area. (Incidentally, at medical school at an elite UK university, I had a friend of Asian Indian origin who had a full-scale IQ north of 150. He was in the top three of the cohort, and got together with an Ashkenazi Jewish girl who was in the top three of her compsci cohort.)

    I suspect that some of the Indian-East Asian difference is due to verbal IQ (which might be why Indians and Jews attract each other). Indian-Americans have an estimated IQ of 112, similar to Ashkenazi Jews, and I suspect that Indian-Americans are all-rounders, in that their verbal IQ is similar to their non-verbal IQ (so, around 112 for each). East Asians, by contrast, have verbal IQs of around 100. Ashkenazi Jews might have verbal IQs of 120 or 125.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Edward

    Microsoft has made a huge amount of money over the last decade for a firm with outmoded products.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross, @Bumpkin

    , @SimpleSong
    @Edward

    True enough, but I stand by my general point: Tata is no Toyota, for example, and India + Pakistan + Bangladesh has fewer market leaders than, say, just SK or just Japan or just China, or arguably, just Taiwan, much less all of them combined. ArecelorMittal is more of an international conglomerate with a lot of Indian heritage, as opposed to something like Huawei which is very much a product of China.

    As for subcontinentals being the new Jews, yes, definitely.

    I also agree that Satya Nadella has been an excellent CEO although a lot of that seems to be him picking up million dollar bills lying on the ground that Steve Ballmer had ignored. For example cloud services: Amazon had already shown it could work and make a lot of money. A lot of potential customers such as large retailers were never ever going to put their data on an Amazon server. They also had long enough histories with Oracle to know that any contract with Oracle was a deal with the devil. So that leaves Microsoft and Google as the only people with enough scale and capital to credibly compete in this space, and they both have done so successfully.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Edward

    The Chinese outmarry a lot more in the UK than the Indians. Indians outmarry more than the Pakis.

    https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160107132108/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/figure2_tcm77-369553.png


    https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160107132117/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/figure3_tcm77-369554.png

  82. Nepotism, clannishness, caste system, playing politics, kissing ass of those who’s above you and denigrating those below you, corruption and bribery … those things aren’t reserved to corrupt Indian politicians, those things are part of everyday life in India and are ingrained in Indian society.
    Gullible White gentiles and Jews are getting fooled and tricked by Indians. Why do I include Jews with Whites? Since a lot of Jewish CEOs hire Indians as a cheap labor instead of native born Americans, as Indians are skillful at telling you whatever you want to hear and doing your every wish (as long as you’re above them) even if it ultimately hurts you or your business.

  83. Anonymous[316] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren’t helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as “leadership skills”. As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, “Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up.”
     
    Does that really apply to today's Chinese? Japanese may be, but Americans who've been to China say Chinese are often loud, vulgar, and rambunctious. And isn't Hong Kong a rather wild place? People there and in Singapore must have had social skills to make so many deals with the West. And when US invaded Iraq, Chinese merchants stormed in at great risk. These people don't strike me as timid.

    That said, perhaps what matters is set and setting. And this goes for Hindus too. A people of one caste may be loud and abrasive among each other(and to members of lower castes) but downright deferential to people of higher caste/status. Maybe the caste system made the Indians more adept at negotiating because so much of what they said and did depended on context of setting. Hindu mind had to adapt from place to place, from person to person.

    Maybe some groups are quieter among themselves and louder with outsiders while other groups are the opposite.

    Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don’t have those epicanthic folds.
     
    But Jews aren't particularly tall. And goy Ross Perot didn't let height get in the way of his power. And Putin and Mussolini too.
    Blacks look even more different from whites, but whites are more deferential to blacks. Now, one could argue that while a people are more disposed to be antagonistic towards people who look different, there are taboos in place against hostile feelings toward blacks and Jews whereas none such exist against certain groups like Asians and Arabs. Thus, negative white feelings toward Asians are allowed bigger leeway.

    East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.
     
    But is that the main issue? Jews often drive each other crazy, indeed even more so. Rather, the problem is the East Asian mind is centered on status and hierarchy than identity and roots, or at least since modernization cut off Confucian roots and replaced it with the nuclear family. It seems East Asian rootedness is linked to way-of-life, not so much to a way-of-thinking. In contrast, Jews and Hindus, even in nuclear family setting, have a way-of-thinking that is spiritually, historically, and culturally identity-driven. Both Hinduism and Judaism are ethno-religions, merging of spirituality and identity. Thus, a Jew or Hindu, no matter where he is, feels special and unique. In contrast, the main emphasis of East Asian society has been TO SERVE. 'Bushi', the term for samurai, means not to lead but to serve.

    So, when a Hindu and East Asian approach an organization, the former feels special and unique, someone who will try to weasel and negotiate to rise as high as possible whereas the East Asian is, above all, eager to serve and prove his worth by show of loyalty.

    At any rate, the West is now in a schizo state because of its cult of freedom and cult of PC. They are contradictory to the max. In a way, Joe Biden's advantage has been the willingness to cut loose and say whatever. But he's said so many wrong things, and this is getting him in hot water. Bloomberg in his more candid moments spoke the truth about race and crime. Now, he's in trouble over that.

    Or consider Rich Lowry. He's a total mouse and wusskin, and yet Buckley chose him because he was a good boy who didn't stir up trouble. Indeed, you have to be a cuck-dork white male make it up the ladder.

    Alt Right guys have been forthright and honest, but they've been punished. Nick Fuentes is off youtube. The totally spineless Charlie Kirk has been promoted.

    If PC favors deference and teachers pet mentality, then East Asians should be favored. But then, they are not.

    Maybe what the current order wants is someone with big personality but small courage(and integrity). Someone who acts like a leader but mostly defers to the Power. Just look at the GOP stable. Big tough guys against Iran and Russia but such sappy dogs before Zion.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Some good points there.

    Chinese are loud and obnoxious when among other Chinese. When among non-Chinese, they are easily cowed. That’s why they can only succeed in their own countries.

    I can see how, due to the caste system, those in the upper castes are used to being top dog, so when they go to other societies, they continue to act like top dog due to higher confidence.

    Indians are also very much like Jews in that they are much more loquacious. First gen Indians may go into STEM because they need that H1b visa and green card, but by second generation they usually go into law, politics, banking, consulting, journalism, medicine like the Jews, while the East Asians tend to stick to STEM. The winners of US math and science Olympiads are overwhelmingly East Asian, while South Asians excel in spelling bee, Intel Science etc. that calls for research and presentation.

    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

    Indians are also power hungry like the Jews. Indian women are entering politics in droves. Their new shtick is claiming brown status. They are increasingly referring to themselves as “brown women” and “brown people of color”, which increases their oppressed status. The US will soon be run over by these BAE — Bullshit Artists of the East. (((Our masters))) prefer them because they are better bootlickers than whites but a little smarter and less violent than blacks and hispanics. We are well on our way to becoming the next India.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    I can see how, due to the caste system, those in the upper castes are used to being top dog, so when they go to other societies, they continue to act like top dog due to higher confidence.
     
    But I think it goes for lower caste people too. In recent yrs, there's been tremendous rise of lower caste people to upper ranks due to market liberalization and urbanization.

    In a way, many lower-caste folks had an advantage because they were less entitled in their mentality. It's like the merchant class eventually overtook the aristocracy.

    With the breakdown of old taboos, lower caste people are using their skills of negotiation to rise up the ranks. In a way, such skills are honed more among the lowers than uppers. The uppers take their status for granted whereas the lowers have to wheedle to gain an inch, like the family in PARASITE.


    Indians are also power hungry like the Jews.
     
    The thing about Hindus is they have both a national and minority mentality. They are part of the Indian nation, but that concept isn't very deep and as yet still underdeveloped. It really emerged under British imperialism. Because Indian nationalism isn't deep, many Hindus think more in terms of locality or caste than nation as a whole. So, every group feels as a minority in India. There is a national bloc of Chinese, and the West even sees China that way(though, to be sure, there are regional differences in China to0). Still, Chinese are one race. Indians are not even that. It's like Latin America. There are whites, gradations of mestizos, browns, and blacks. What does it mean to be Venezuelan? One feels both national identity and minority identity as every group is a minority down there(which may be the fate of the US if California is any indication, a kind of universal minoritism, and that may be why globalists feel closer to India, the universal minoritarian nation, than China, a majority han nation).

    In their minority-thinking, the various groups of Hindus are more like Jews. But as Indian nationalism solidifies over the years with the easing of caste hierarchies, Indians may feel more like Chinese, as one people.
    Paradoxically, even though Hindus are like Jews in the West where they are a minority, Hindus in the West may present a new model of pan-Hindu nationalism. After all, while many Hindu groups remain apart from each other in India, in the US they tend to come together as a minority group. Thus, the barriers ease among Indian-Americans who feel camaraderie that is still missing among many Indians in India, and this American model may be re-exported back to India.
    Indeed, it was British Imperialism that brought together many Indians as one people. Though of different regions and loyalties, many studied in Great Britain and, away from home, bonded as Indian proto-nationals than by old village loyalties.
    But then, modern Zionism would also be absent in the world if not for Jewish 'exiles' in Europe who came together as one pan-Jewish identity.

    , @Malla
    @Anonymous


    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.
     
    Oy Vey, I was just reading a book, 'Observations on the State of Society Among the Asiatic Subjects of Great Britain' by Charles Grant written in the 1790s. It is about observations about Indian in the 1700s. I say, the author is accurate in his judgement of Indians and Indian society in general. Check it out, no doubt we Indians are perfect for the cutthroat satanic Judaic Corporate World of America. And what this gentleman had so accurately observed in the 1700s, is that how things are even now? Now in 2020? You bet, we remain the same.

    Anyways, some snippets from the book
    (from Chapter II of the book: View of the State of Society among the Hindoo Subjects of Great Britain, particularly with respect to Morals. )

    "The generality however of those who have written concerning Hindostan, appear to have concurred in affirming what foreign residents there have as generally thought, nay, what the natives themselves freely acknowledge of each other, that they are a people exceedingly depraved.

    ....snip....

    Now as these corruptions begin not in the practice of the courts of law, but have their origin in the character of the people, it is just to state them in illustration of that character; for although the legal reforms introduced by Lord Cornwallis will purify, it may be hoped, the fountains of justice, yet the best administration of law will not eradicate the internal principles of depravity.

    Selfishness, in a word, unrestrained by principle, operates universally ; and money, the grand instrument of selfish gratifications, may be called the supreme idol of the Hindoos. Deprived for the most part of political power, and destitute of boldness of spirit, but formed for business, artful, frugal, and persevering, they are absorbed in schemes for the gratification of avarice.

    The tendency of that abandoned selfishness is to set " every man's hand against ever man," either in projels, or in acts of open force. From violence however, fear interposes to restrain them. The people of the lower provinces in particular, with an exception of the military caste, are as dastardly as they are unprincipled. They seek their ends by mean artifices, low cunning, intrigue, falsehood, servility, and hypocritical obsequiousness. To superiors they appear full of reverence, of humble and willing submission, and readiness to do every thing that may be required of them; and as long as they discern something either to expect or to fear, they are wonderfully patient of slights, neglects, and injuries. But under all this apparent passiveness and meanness of temper, they are immovably persisting in their secret views. With inferiors, they indemnify themselves by an indulgence of the feelings which were controlled before; and towards dependents, especially towards those whom an official situation subjects to their authority, they carry themselves with the mean pride of low minds. In the inferior, and by far the most numerous class of the community, where each man is nearly on a level with his neighbour, the native character appears with less disguise. The passions have a freer range, and new consequences are seen to result from the absence of the primary virtues of society. Discord, hatred, abuse, slanders, injuries, complaints, and litigations, all the effects of selfishness unrestrained by principle, prevail to a surprising degree. They overspread the land, they come perpetually before all men in authority. The deliberate malice, the falsehood, the calumnies, and and the avowed enmity with which the people pursue each other, and sometimes from father to son, offer a very mortifying view of the human character.
    No stranger can sit down among them without being struck with this temper of malevolent contention and animosity, as a prominent feature in the character of the society. It is seen in every village, the inhabitants live among each other in a sort of repulsive state, nay it enters into almost every family. Seldom is there a household without its internal divisions, and lading enmities,
    most commonly too on the score of interest. The women partake of this spirit of discord. Held in slavish subjection by the men, they rife in furious passions against each other, which vent themselves in such loud, virulent, and indecent railings, as are hardly to be heard in any other part of the world. "
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Anonymous


    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

     

    Chutzpah is very common among people from West Asia. Mediterranean Europeans, Arabs, Persians, Turks, Israelis, North Africans, Subcons. "White Hispanics" like Cubans (who have a lot of Iberian ancestry) are very much apart of the Chutzpah-sphere too.

    It's a region that produces lots of "carpet salesmen." The type who constantly refer to you as "my friend" when you walk into their store. Very sociable and hospitable, but not to be trusted.

    Watch "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" to learn more. This 1-minute clip is worth watching to see how Whites and West Asians view one another.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWispEM3900

    To be fair, White Gentiles have a culture of bullsh*tting too, but they're more agreeable and less assertive. They're more of the "good old boy." Like "Dubya" Bush or "Slick Willy" Clinton. For whatever reason, the South and Texas produce lots of these types.

    The high-Chutzpah West Asians are probably better at noisily asserting themselves in social interactions, but the "good old boys" are more likable and charismatic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arufakC_AMQ

    Replies: @Autochthon, @Malla

  84. @ATBOTL
    @Anonymous


    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they’re better workers but because they’re easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.
     
    East Asians are not as clannish as Indians, but they are more clannish than whites.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    East Asian clannishness is only among the FOBs who came from the same country. Those who speak fluent English and/or second gen. tend to be more self-repellent than liberal whites from conservative whites.

  85. @Edward
    @SimpleSong

    Tata is a world-class company that was set up in India, which has taken over a number of Britain's most treasured car companies. Mittal Steel was one of the largest producers of steel in the world, and is now the largest, set up by the Indian-born billionaire Lakshmi Mittal (I believe he has British citizenship now). In 2005 Mittal was the third-richest person in the world. I'd argue that InfoSys is another world-class company.

    As for CEOs not mattering, the evidence suggests otherwise. Indra Nooyi, an Indian-American, was the CEO of PepsiCo. She was widely regarded as one of the best CEOs in the world.

    Similarly, the Indian-American Satya Nadella has been credited with turning around Microsoft's fortunes. He was named the Financial Times's person of the year in 2019:


    Microsoft was at risk of technological irrelevance but the chief executive has presided over an era of stunning wealth creation... The growing wealth and power of Big Tech over the past decade has been a defining feature of modern capitalism. Yet even judged by the standards of most of his peers, Mr Nadella stands out.

    By the end of November, the total return generated for Microsoft shareholders during his near-six year tenure passed $1tn. Contrast that with the moment when he took over as only the third CEO in Microsoft’s history, and the software company looked like it might be on the fast track to technological irrelevance.
     

    https://www.ft.com/content/0e8c3002-20c7-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96

    Indians in the West are the new Ashkenazi Jews. The former UK Conservative Party Deputy Chairman, Lord Jeffrey Archer, was very prescient in 2008:


    Lord Archer: Indians are the ‘new Jews’ and are taking over Britain

    Britain is being “taken over” by Indians and will one day have an Indian prime minister, according to Tory peer Lord Archer.
     

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/2066401/Lord-Archer-Indians-are-the-new-Jews-and-are-taking-over-Britain.html

    Indeed, who do we have in the UK Conservative Government's Cabinet? The second-most powerful person in the country, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Finance Minister), is the Oxford and Stanford-educated Rishi Sunak, who is himself married to the Stanford-educated daughter of an Indian billionaire. The third-most powerful politician in the country is Priti Patel, whose Indian parents fled Uganda when Idi Amin tried to expel them. And the Business Secretary (who has also been put in charge of the UN Climate Change Conference to be held in Glasgow), is Alok Sharma.

    One of the top three contenders to be the next Leader of the Opposition (leader of the Labour Party) in the UK is Lisa Nandy, who is the daughter of an Indian-born academic and his English wife.

    Interestingly, and contrary to some of the comments above, British Indians do not appear to be too ethnocentric:


    British Indians are twice as likely to marry outside their ethnic group as British Pakistanis are; 70 per cent of British Indian women work, which is close to the national average. And according to the think tank Demos, they are far more likely to live in multi-ethnic neighbourhoods, instead of the homogeneous areas where many British Pakistanis reside.
     
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html

    In the US, there appear to be lots of "HinJew" couples, particularly in the DC area. (Incidentally, at medical school at an elite UK university, I had a friend of Asian Indian origin who had a full-scale IQ north of 150. He was in the top three of the cohort, and got together with an Ashkenazi Jewish girl who was in the top three of her compsci cohort.)

    I suspect that some of the Indian-East Asian difference is due to verbal IQ (which might be why Indians and Jews attract each other). Indian-Americans have an estimated IQ of 112, similar to Ashkenazi Jews, and I suspect that Indian-Americans are all-rounders, in that their verbal IQ is similar to their non-verbal IQ (so, around 112 for each). East Asians, by contrast, have verbal IQs of around 100. Ashkenazi Jews might have verbal IQs of 120 or 125.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @SimpleSong, @JohnnyWalker123

    Microsoft has made a huge amount of money over the last decade for a firm with outmoded products.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    Microsoft has made a huge amount of money over the last decade for a firm with outmoded products.
     
    Molesoft?


    https://media.newyorker.com/photos/59096e471c7a8e33fb38e6d0/master/pass/Sax-Analog-Techniques-HighTech-Companies2.jpg

    Remember when Microsoft was supposed to "assimilate" everybody, and Apple was in its death throes? Something happened in the meantime.

    , @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes and no. They were smart to be the computer for non-computer-people, and they have a certain amount of locked-in success for that reason, like a government contractor. But Microsoft's attempts to branch out or do new things fail pretty reliably, Windows 10 is a debacle, and the wannacry ransomware situation proved that even government and emergency offices are sick of Microsoft's idea of progress.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Bumpkin
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, and so did IBM for three decades till Microsoft passed them in revenue too:
    https://zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/04/24/c5e4c5b4-8145-4cb6-a93f-5c89a7b9021e/resize/770xauto/4b0d44a7ab090f30d8ee508b0a1b40ec/chartgo-ibm-ms-1996-2016-square.png

    What he and others are referring to is the market share of sales of their once flagship product, Windows, dropping to one-tenth of competing mobile products like Android and iOS, a category Microsoft completely missed. It is only a matter of time till the money goes away too, as the technical underpinnings are now gone.

    I don't blame Nadella for this, as this is the inevitable life cycle of giant corporations, with many bad decisions made by Steve Ballmer before him, who was very bright but not a tech guy. Uber-geeks like Gates who have the entrepreneurial skills to build a giant Microsoft or google don't have the political chops to rise at a similar conglomerate founded by someone else, so decline and fall is the common outcome. It is extremely rare for another founder-type or visionary to ever rise to the top after the initial founder.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  86. @Anonymous
    @indocon

    White males are already - politically and legally - the Dalits of North America and western Europe.

    As strange and seemingly counter intuitive as that statement might seem.

    Replies: @indocon, @Reg Cæsar

    White males are already – politically and legally – the Dalits of North America and western Europe.

    I can’t imagine Untouchables holding most of the top positions in subcontinental government, commerce, and academia, though.

    • Replies: @Medvedev
    @Reg Cæsar

    His premise was "politically and legally", not overall ... yet. A couple of points

    - Indian average IQ is 82 while Dalits' IQ is significantly lower, probably around 70-72. Whereas American White males have IQ of 101-102 compared with 97-98 for general population.
    - Dalits has been at the bottom for thousands of years. Whereas Whites went from being in control of their own country in 50-60s, more even treatment, split and losing their status and eventually where they are today. In other words, Whites has been ostracized just for 10-15 years at most.

    , @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @Reg Cæsar

    The current President of India is a Dalit. He is second Dalit to become President. India's largest state had a Dalit Chief Minister (equivalent of Gov. of a US state) in the past. Ex- Chief Justice of Supreme court was a Dalit. Many of parliamentarians, ministers were & still are Dalits.

    In academia, there are reserved seats for Dalits and there are plenty of teachers/ professors who are dalits.

    In commerce, there is a Dalit Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DICCI) which boasts of 5000 members. There is a public procurement policy which mandates that 4% of all Central Govt & Public sector company purchases must be from Dalit owned enterprises.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Perhaps.

    But those 'top dogs' that you mention are generally the most vicious anti white male discriminators around.

    Why else do you think that legal - and explicit and vicious - racial and sex discrimination against white men is not only the norm in the modern West but is applauded for being 'virtuous' and praise and kudos is heaped upon the power people in direct proportion to the vehemence they are seen to enforce it?

  87. @BB753
    @Reg Cæsar

    Unfortunately, for most South Asians, the loo lies in the open air and there's no flush!

    Replies: @Just passing through

    Why is it that India is known for open defecation when there are various countries in Africa that have much higher open-defecation rates?

    Is it just funny to mention because they do things like sending probes to Mars but can’t build toilets for the vast swathes of the population?

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Just passing through

    Rates, perhaps, but when this became a policy issue in the news about a decade ago, I recall Indians were about 500 million of the 600 million worldwide total practicing it. So, it’s identified with them.

    Googling the subject, they’re down to about 20-30 million (they built a lot of outhouses in the last few years) but nobody cares about that. These impressions, er, linger on.

    , @BB753
    @Just passing through

    "Is it just funny to mention because they do things like sending probes to Mars but can’t build toilets for the vast swathes of the population?"

    You've got it exactly right.

    , @Anonymous
    @Just passing through

    There are peculiar cultural issues involved. Cleaning up crap, even your own, is low status work. A high status person craps wherever they like without worrying about the mess.

    (This is not just an Indian thing. European aristocrats used to have similar attitudes. I remember reading somewhere about a British king and his retinue who visited some rich guy's palace and left turds everywhere but in the privy.)

  88. @Steve Sailer
    @Edward

    Microsoft has made a huge amount of money over the last decade for a firm with outmoded products.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross, @Bumpkin

    Microsoft has made a huge amount of money over the last decade for a firm with outmoded products.

    Molesoft?

    Remember when Microsoft was supposed to “assimilate” everybody, and Apple was in its death throes? Something happened in the meantime.

  89. @82-IQ H1B Indian
    Indian American CEOs of well known companies

    IBM - Arvind Krishna
    Google - Sundar Pichai
    Microsoft - Satya Nadella
    Mastercard - Ajay Banga
    Adobe - Shantanu Narayan
    Diageo - Ivan Menezes
    Reckitt Benckiser - L Narsimhan
    Nokia - Rajeev Suri
    Novartis - VK Narasimhan

    But..but..Indians are only good at climbing up the corporate ladder (by manipulating gullible whites). They are not creative enough to start new companies!

    National Foundation for American Policy did a study in 2018 on Unicorn startups (over $1 Billion companies). They found 87 such unicorns. 14 were started by Indians who topped the list followed by Canada & UK (8) , Israel (7) Germany (4) and then China (3).

    Replies: @Lot, @MG, @J.Ross

    As an Indian, I can confirm that Indians are masters at talking a good game. The Indian CEOs of Google and Microsoft contributed bupkis to technology but were smart enough to show up at the right time. Same story with most other CEO Indians.

    If every single Indian currently in the US had never set foot here, your life would be no different today, technologically speaking.

    • Replies: @Edward
    @MG

    You don't give your brethren enough credit! (Not that I'm denying Indians are - how shall we put it? - loquacious?)


    Anil K. Jain – the father of biometrics and computer vision – is the most cited person in the field of computer science and electronics.

    Ajay Bhatt is the inventor of Universal Serial Bus (USB) technology.

    Vinod Dham was the founder of the famous Intel Pentium processor and co-invented Intel’s first flash memory technology.

    Arogyaswami J. Paulraj is the inventor of multiple-input and multiple-output (MIMO), an essential element of wireless communication systems including 3G and 4G.

    Narinder Singh Kapany is the father of fibre optic technology.

    Ramanathan Guha invented the Rich Site Summary feed – also known as the RSS Feed. He also invented the Meta Content Framework (MCF) and the Resource Description Framework (RDF).

    Krishna Palem is the inventor of the probabilistic complementary metal-oxide semiconductor (PCMOS), which the MIT Technology Review highlighted as one of the 10 technologies that are “most likely to change the way we live”, in 2008.

    Rakesh Agarwal – who holds fifty-five patents – is the most cited author in the field of database systems.
     

    Replies: @MG

    , @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @MG


    As an Indian, I can confirm that Indians are masters at talking a good game
     
    As an Indian, I can confirm that we are all not cookie cuttered clones. There are talking Indians and there are Indians who just mumble.

    The Indian CEOs of Google and Microsoft contributed bupkis to technology but were smart enough to show up at the right time. Same story with most other CEO Indians.
     
    Somehow the board of directors who run multi billion $ companies & the share holders do not seem to realize this. After all what do they know about running companies? They should check anonymous comments to learn.

    If every single Indian currently in the US had never set foot here, your life would be no different today, technologically speaking.
     
    May be. If my aunt had a d*ck, he would have been my uncle.
  90. @Steve Sailer
    @Edward

    Microsoft has made a huge amount of money over the last decade for a firm with outmoded products.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross, @Bumpkin

    Yes and no. They were smart to be the computer for non-computer-people, and they have a certain amount of locked-in success for that reason, like a government contractor. But Microsoft’s attempts to branch out or do new things fail pretty reliably, Windows 10 is a debacle, and the wannacry ransomware situation proved that even government and emergency offices are sick of Microsoft’s idea of progress.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @J.Ross

    And yet Microsoft continues to make bundles of bucks instead of going the way of Xerox and Polaroid.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous, @Lot, @Anon87

  91. @82-IQ H1B Indian
    Indian American CEOs of well known companies

    IBM - Arvind Krishna
    Google - Sundar Pichai
    Microsoft - Satya Nadella
    Mastercard - Ajay Banga
    Adobe - Shantanu Narayan
    Diageo - Ivan Menezes
    Reckitt Benckiser - L Narsimhan
    Nokia - Rajeev Suri
    Novartis - VK Narasimhan

    But..but..Indians are only good at climbing up the corporate ladder (by manipulating gullible whites). They are not creative enough to start new companies!

    National Foundation for American Policy did a study in 2018 on Unicorn startups (over $1 Billion companies). They found 87 such unicorns. 14 were started by Indians who topped the list followed by Canada & UK (8) , Israel (7) Germany (4) and then China (3).

    Replies: @Lot, @MG, @J.Ross

    Startups are a bad criterion to point to, for a while now a lot of idiot-angel-investor money has been thrown at terrible ideas which fail soon enough, or never do, because they lay folks off and then get more money.

  92. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    White males are already – politically and legally – the Dalits of North America and western Europe.
     
    I can't imagine Untouchables holding most of the top positions in subcontinental government, commerce, and academia, though.

    Replies: @Medvedev, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous

    His premise was “politically and legally”, not overall … yet. A couple of points

    – Indian average IQ is 82 while Dalits’ IQ is significantly lower, probably around 70-72. Whereas American White males have IQ of 101-102 compared with 97-98 for general population.
    – Dalits has been at the bottom for thousands of years. Whereas Whites went from being in control of their own country in 50-60s, more even treatment, split and losing their status and eventually where they are today. In other words, Whites has been ostracized just for 10-15 years at most.

  93. @Reg Cæsar

    the Madras Floor
     
    Chennai! Chennai!

    Wash it down with your Mumbai Sapphire Gin, after some crab Yangon or Beijing duck.

    Make sure to pick up some Myanmar Shave on the way home-- your stubble is showing. And don't miss the Foghorn Livorno marathon coming up on the Cartoon Network.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Autochthon

    This is top notch satire; good stuff. I laughed as much as I do watching reruns of The Jeffersons and their sassy maid, Firenze.

  94. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Some good points there.

    Chinese are loud and obnoxious when among other Chinese. When among non-Chinese, they are easily cowed. That's why they can only succeed in their own countries.

    I can see how, due to the caste system, those in the upper castes are used to being top dog, so when they go to other societies, they continue to act like top dog due to higher confidence.

    Indians are also very much like Jews in that they are much more loquacious. First gen Indians may go into STEM because they need that H1b visa and green card, but by second generation they usually go into law, politics, banking, consulting, journalism, medicine like the Jews, while the East Asians tend to stick to STEM. The winners of US math and science Olympiads are overwhelmingly East Asian, while South Asians excel in spelling bee, Intel Science etc. that calls for research and presentation.

    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

    Indians are also power hungry like the Jews. Indian women are entering politics in droves. Their new shtick is claiming brown status. They are increasingly referring to themselves as "brown women" and "brown people of color", which increases their oppressed status. The US will soon be run over by these BAE -- Bullshit Artists of the East. (((Our masters))) prefer them because they are better bootlickers than whites but a little smarter and less violent than blacks and hispanics. We are well on our way to becoming the next India.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Malla, @JohnnyWalker123

    I can see how, due to the caste system, those in the upper castes are used to being top dog, so when they go to other societies, they continue to act like top dog due to higher confidence.

    But I think it goes for lower caste people too. In recent yrs, there’s been tremendous rise of lower caste people to upper ranks due to market liberalization and urbanization.

    In a way, many lower-caste folks had an advantage because they were less entitled in their mentality. It’s like the merchant class eventually overtook the aristocracy.

    With the breakdown of old taboos, lower caste people are using their skills of negotiation to rise up the ranks. In a way, such skills are honed more among the lowers than uppers. The uppers take their status for granted whereas the lowers have to wheedle to gain an inch, like the family in PARASITE.

    Indians are also power hungry like the Jews.

    The thing about Hindus is they have both a national and minority mentality. They are part of the Indian nation, but that concept isn’t very deep and as yet still underdeveloped. It really emerged under British imperialism. Because Indian nationalism isn’t deep, many Hindus think more in terms of locality or caste than nation as a whole. So, every group feels as a minority in India. There is a national bloc of Chinese, and the West even sees China that way(though, to be sure, there are regional differences in China to0). Still, Chinese are one race. Indians are not even that. It’s like Latin America. There are whites, gradations of mestizos, browns, and blacks. What does it mean to be Venezuelan? One feels both national identity and minority identity as every group is a minority down there(which may be the fate of the US if California is any indication, a kind of universal minoritism, and that may be why globalists feel closer to India, the universal minoritarian nation, than China, a majority han nation).

    In their minority-thinking, the various groups of Hindus are more like Jews. But as Indian nationalism solidifies over the years with the easing of caste hierarchies, Indians may feel more like Chinese, as one people.
    Paradoxically, even though Hindus are like Jews in the West where they are a minority, Hindus in the West may present a new model of pan-Hindu nationalism. After all, while many Hindu groups remain apart from each other in India, in the US they tend to come together as a minority group. Thus, the barriers ease among Indian-Americans who feel camaraderie that is still missing among many Indians in India, and this American model may be re-exported back to India.
    Indeed, it was British Imperialism that brought together many Indians as one people. Though of different regions and loyalties, many studied in Great Britain and, away from home, bonded as Indian proto-nationals than by old village loyalties.
    But then, modern Zionism would also be absent in the world if not for Jewish ‘exiles’ in Europe who came together as one pan-Jewish identity.

  95. @Lawyer Guy
    A friend was one of a bunch of consultants working for Sears 12ish years ago. Eddie was milking the corporation of all its pension and real estate assets but was trying to keep the ship afloat until he squeezed every dollar out.

    He hired all Indians to be the senior management. They decided Sears could be Amazon Part II, with store shipment and pickup. Got a pretty good website going, figured out how to get all the customers emails. This is where my friend came in.

    They bought a bunch of the bargain level apple ipod variants that failed after launch, and set up employees in the stores as warehouse pickers. The store literally wanted to jump from FAXING (yes I am yelling) planogram store layouts to beaming item locations to pickers walking the stores with shopping carts to take net orders off the display shelves.

    His whole group pointed out the economic insanity of paying pickers to grab orders and department employees to then restock---but the Indians all knew how the retail world worked--because they had run stores in Bangalore.

    Replies: @Lot

    Eddie gets a lot of blame, but was there really any possible way to save Sears and K-Mart?

    If a competing retail concept is 3% better than the prior one, that can be enough to gradually kill it off. Payless Shoes, Bon Ton, Circuit City, Radio Shack, A&P, Borders, etc seem to fit this mold.

    In some cases the death was hastened by some last minute attempts at radical reform that failed. But if they had done nothing management would be attacked for not trying to right a sinking ship.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Lot

    Sears, Roebuck would do well as a destination store if it simply did exactly what it did in the 1950s through the late 1980s. Clean, pleasant, well lit, stores with Sears branded good merchandise with excellent parts and service support sold by pleasant, knowledgeable pros who were earning a decent living, with a lunch counter and the nuts and candy department that made the store smell nice, and stuff appealing to both male ( tools, automotive, lawn and garden) and female (apparel, furniture and services) customers.

    People would pay a premium over the big box stores staffed by minimum wage doofuses for genuinely good products properly supported. Unfortunately, Sears products have went from generally pretty good to excellent , to generally mediocre to crappy and often abysmal, the stores are staffed by people who don't know their ass from a hole in the linoleum, they are dirty and unorganized, and anything Sears sells can be had elsewhere cheaper.

    Most retail businesses-and perhaps most businesses generally-fail because they lose their will to live. Here in Kansas City, the Winsteads hamburger chain has shut down, all but the original downtown store. What killed them? Was it health conscious consumers, a change in tastes, aggressive competition? Nope. The stores were dirty, the bathrooms in every single location stunk of sewer gas, the waitresses were inattentive and slovenly, and the burgers were rotten meat-the secret of the place was that the burger meat was a little high, but I got burgers with meat that was downright rotten on several occasions, with fries that were either raw or burnt, and a soft drink that was flat and tasted bad. I quit going to the one by work and so did the people I work with.

    It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to clean the store up, hire decent people, and serve fresh burger meat and fries properly cooked and clean and recalibrate the soda fountain. Does it? Apparently, because that never happened. They shut down about a year ago and already most of the locations have been bulldozed and replaced, several by the St. Louis based Lions Choice roast beef joints, which are quite good.

    In the case of Sears, there is the complication that Lampert may well want the stores to fail so he can stripmine the real estate that decades of prudent management and quality service paid for.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

  96. @Desiderius
    @Dan Hayes

    past?

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Revised to read: past, present, and future masters!

  97. @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes and no. They were smart to be the computer for non-computer-people, and they have a certain amount of locked-in success for that reason, like a government contractor. But Microsoft's attempts to branch out or do new things fail pretty reliably, Windows 10 is a debacle, and the wannacry ransomware situation proved that even government and emergency offices are sick of Microsoft's idea of progress.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    And yet Microsoft continues to make bundles of bucks instead of going the way of Xerox and Polaroid.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    You don't need Xerox or Polaroid because new things have replaced them. Superior alternatives to Microsoft exist but are not widely adopted. You need Microsoft because people who don't do IT say so. Microsoft is protected for the wrong reasons.

    , @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @Steve Sailer

    Microsoft makes money from 2 sources. Microsoft Office which is default product across the corporate world and Microsoft Cloud services (Azure). Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anon, @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Microsoft has a network effect monopoly that protects it from competition.

    Xerox and Polaroid had hardware products that were open to competition and eventually replaced by better mousetraps.

    Most people use Microsoft products because everybody else that they work with or in their line of work already do, not because they choose it among a pool of competing products. If all your clients are using Word and Excel and you have to exchange documents and spreadsheets with them, you have to use Office even if you hate it and would use something else if you had the option.

    Large companies with a significant amount of monopoly power like Microsoft are protected from competition and have reliable revenue streams. In those environments, the ability to climb the corporate ladder is more valuable than being a good employee that helps the company, because the company's monopoly is going to protect it from competition and ensure it stays in business and makes money regardless.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Lot
    @Steve Sailer

    Xerox is still around, and currently trying to hostile takeover HP, which is several times larger.

    I hope they don’t, HP makes the longest lasting hardware. I have an HP laserjet and LCD monitor* that I purchased *used* in 2007 and both still work perfectly, even as the computers they use have failed.

    *HP didn’t make the LCD panel itself, that would be LG or Samsung, or less likely NEC. But they designed everything else and correctly chose what panel to use.

    The printer jams less than once a year and takes 10 seconds to clear when it does.

    , @Anon87
    @Steve Sailer

    To be fair, without Xerox there is no Microsoft. MS will be in the position of Xerox eventually. Might be another decade or so, but they are already beginning the descent into the death spiral.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  98. @MG
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    As an Indian, I can confirm that Indians are masters at talking a good game. The Indian CEOs of Google and Microsoft contributed bupkis to technology but were smart enough to show up at the right time. Same story with most other CEO Indians.

    If every single Indian currently in the US had never set foot here, your life would be no different today, technologically speaking.

    Replies: @Edward, @82-IQ H1B Indian

    You don’t give your brethren enough credit! (Not that I’m denying Indians are – how shall we put it? – loquacious?)

    Anil K. Jain – the father of biometrics and computer vision – is the most cited person in the field of computer science and electronics.

    Ajay Bhatt is the inventor of Universal Serial Bus (USB) technology.

    Vinod Dham was the founder of the famous Intel Pentium processor and co-invented Intel’s first flash memory technology.

    Arogyaswami J. Paulraj is the inventor of multiple-input and multiple-output (MIMO), an essential element of wireless communication systems including 3G and 4G.

    Narinder Singh Kapany is the father of fibre optic technology.

    Ramanathan Guha invented the Rich Site Summary feed – also known as the RSS Feed. He also invented the Meta Content Framework (MCF) and the Resource Description Framework (RDF).

    Krishna Palem is the inventor of the probabilistic complementary metal-oxide semiconductor (PCMOS), which the MIT Technology Review highlighted as one of the 10 technologies that are “most likely to change the way we live”, in 2008.

    Rakesh Agarwal – who holds fifty-five patents – is the most cited author in the field of database systems.

    • Thanks: Triumph104
    • Replies: @MG
    @Edward

    Vinod Dham? Bwahahahahaha. “Founder” of the Pentium? Ajay Bhatt didn’t invent the USB. Intel simply needed an ad to promote “diversity.” You seem to have cogged the list Indians have been emailing among themselves for a decade to prove how smart they are. The only worthwhile guy in your list is Narender Kapany.

    Replies: @Hong Xiu Quan

  99. @Edward
    @SimpleSong

    Tata is a world-class company that was set up in India, which has taken over a number of Britain's most treasured car companies. Mittal Steel was one of the largest producers of steel in the world, and is now the largest, set up by the Indian-born billionaire Lakshmi Mittal (I believe he has British citizenship now). In 2005 Mittal was the third-richest person in the world. I'd argue that InfoSys is another world-class company.

    As for CEOs not mattering, the evidence suggests otherwise. Indra Nooyi, an Indian-American, was the CEO of PepsiCo. She was widely regarded as one of the best CEOs in the world.

    Similarly, the Indian-American Satya Nadella has been credited with turning around Microsoft's fortunes. He was named the Financial Times's person of the year in 2019:


    Microsoft was at risk of technological irrelevance but the chief executive has presided over an era of stunning wealth creation... The growing wealth and power of Big Tech over the past decade has been a defining feature of modern capitalism. Yet even judged by the standards of most of his peers, Mr Nadella stands out.

    By the end of November, the total return generated for Microsoft shareholders during his near-six year tenure passed $1tn. Contrast that with the moment when he took over as only the third CEO in Microsoft’s history, and the software company looked like it might be on the fast track to technological irrelevance.
     

    https://www.ft.com/content/0e8c3002-20c7-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96

    Indians in the West are the new Ashkenazi Jews. The former UK Conservative Party Deputy Chairman, Lord Jeffrey Archer, was very prescient in 2008:


    Lord Archer: Indians are the ‘new Jews’ and are taking over Britain

    Britain is being “taken over” by Indians and will one day have an Indian prime minister, according to Tory peer Lord Archer.
     

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/2066401/Lord-Archer-Indians-are-the-new-Jews-and-are-taking-over-Britain.html

    Indeed, who do we have in the UK Conservative Government's Cabinet? The second-most powerful person in the country, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Finance Minister), is the Oxford and Stanford-educated Rishi Sunak, who is himself married to the Stanford-educated daughter of an Indian billionaire. The third-most powerful politician in the country is Priti Patel, whose Indian parents fled Uganda when Idi Amin tried to expel them. And the Business Secretary (who has also been put in charge of the UN Climate Change Conference to be held in Glasgow), is Alok Sharma.

    One of the top three contenders to be the next Leader of the Opposition (leader of the Labour Party) in the UK is Lisa Nandy, who is the daughter of an Indian-born academic and his English wife.

    Interestingly, and contrary to some of the comments above, British Indians do not appear to be too ethnocentric:


    British Indians are twice as likely to marry outside their ethnic group as British Pakistanis are; 70 per cent of British Indian women work, which is close to the national average. And according to the think tank Demos, they are far more likely to live in multi-ethnic neighbourhoods, instead of the homogeneous areas where many British Pakistanis reside.
     
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html

    In the US, there appear to be lots of "HinJew" couples, particularly in the DC area. (Incidentally, at medical school at an elite UK university, I had a friend of Asian Indian origin who had a full-scale IQ north of 150. He was in the top three of the cohort, and got together with an Ashkenazi Jewish girl who was in the top three of her compsci cohort.)

    I suspect that some of the Indian-East Asian difference is due to verbal IQ (which might be why Indians and Jews attract each other). Indian-Americans have an estimated IQ of 112, similar to Ashkenazi Jews, and I suspect that Indian-Americans are all-rounders, in that their verbal IQ is similar to their non-verbal IQ (so, around 112 for each). East Asians, by contrast, have verbal IQs of around 100. Ashkenazi Jews might have verbal IQs of 120 or 125.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @SimpleSong, @JohnnyWalker123

    True enough, but I stand by my general point: Tata is no Toyota, for example, and India + Pakistan + Bangladesh has fewer market leaders than, say, just SK or just Japan or just China, or arguably, just Taiwan, much less all of them combined. ArecelorMittal is more of an international conglomerate with a lot of Indian heritage, as opposed to something like Huawei which is very much a product of China.

    As for subcontinentals being the new Jews, yes, definitely.

    I also agree that Satya Nadella has been an excellent CEO although a lot of that seems to be him picking up million dollar bills lying on the ground that Steve Ballmer had ignored. For example cloud services: Amazon had already shown it could work and make a lot of money. A lot of potential customers such as large retailers were never ever going to put their data on an Amazon server. They also had long enough histories with Oracle to know that any contract with Oracle was a deal with the devil. So that leaves Microsoft and Google as the only people with enough scale and capital to credibly compete in this space, and they both have done so successfully.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @SimpleSong


    So that leaves Microsoft and Google as the only people with enough scale and capital to credibly compete in this space, and they both have done so successfully.
     
    Microsoft One Drive is a good Cloud product and they have the advantage of being able to integrate it directly into the Windows OS, making it transparent for the user to take advantage of the Cloud capability.

    That said, I don't know how Microsoft or any of the other Cloud providers haven't had a huge data breach yet. Perhaps they screen the employees in charge of One Drive very tightly and compensate them very well, with a good work-life balance. That would seem to remove the temptation to steal user data.

    Nadella has been very good for the most part. I really like the Microsoft Surface and Surface Pro product lines with the detachable keyboards. MS has managed to cram the functionality of a laptop into a large tablet. There is no better form factor for someone who travels extensively. You wouldn't think there's a huge different between the Surface Pro that weighs 2.5 lbs and is 0.5" thick versus an ultrabook laptop that weighs 4 lbs and is 0.75" thick, but there is if you spend enough time on the road.

    Replies: @BB753

  100. @Steve Sailer
    @J.Ross

    And yet Microsoft continues to make bundles of bucks instead of going the way of Xerox and Polaroid.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous, @Lot, @Anon87

    You don’t need Xerox or Polaroid because new things have replaced them. Superior alternatives to Microsoft exist but are not widely adopted. You need Microsoft because people who don’t do IT say so. Microsoft is protected for the wrong reasons.

  101. @MG
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    As an Indian, I can confirm that Indians are masters at talking a good game. The Indian CEOs of Google and Microsoft contributed bupkis to technology but were smart enough to show up at the right time. Same story with most other CEO Indians.

    If every single Indian currently in the US had never set foot here, your life would be no different today, technologically speaking.

    Replies: @Edward, @82-IQ H1B Indian

    As an Indian, I can confirm that Indians are masters at talking a good game

    As an Indian, I can confirm that we are all not cookie cuttered clones. There are talking Indians and there are Indians who just mumble.

    The Indian CEOs of Google and Microsoft contributed bupkis to technology but were smart enough to show up at the right time. Same story with most other CEO Indians.

    Somehow the board of directors who run multi billion $ companies & the share holders do not seem to realize this. After all what do they know about running companies? They should check anonymous comments to learn.

    If every single Indian currently in the US had never set foot here, your life would be no different today, technologically speaking.

    May be. If my aunt had a d*ck, he would have been my uncle.

  102. @Steve Sailer
    @J.Ross

    And yet Microsoft continues to make bundles of bucks instead of going the way of Xerox and Polaroid.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous, @Lot, @Anon87

    Microsoft makes money from 2 sources. Microsoft Office which is default product across the corporate world and Microsoft Cloud services (Azure). Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    Microsoft stockholders have good reason to be grateful to him.

    , @anon
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.

    At a constant cost to customers. Microsoft Office is like cable TV combined with Amazon's "Ring" now.

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @82-IQ H1B Indian


    Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.
     
    That was probably one of their best moves.

    More people are more willing to autopay $100/year charged to their credit card to have use of Office for another year than they are willing to cough up $300-500 for a new version of Office every 2-3 years.

    The network effect mentioned above also protects a lot of this cash flow. Alternatives like Google Docs, Zoho, NeoOffice, and LibreOffice are getting *very good* at translating documents to and from Office, but they are not perfect. That keeps them out of significant corporate and academic spaces where the more sophisticated Office features, like in-line equations in Word, are required.
  103. @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @Steve Sailer

    Microsoft makes money from 2 sources. Microsoft Office which is default product across the corporate world and Microsoft Cloud services (Azure). Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anon, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Microsoft stockholders have good reason to be grateful to him.

  104. @Reg Cæsar
    @PiltdownMan

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/rf/image_size_960x540/HT/p2/2018/05/08/Pictures/_8f51f2ca-5289-11e8-aa60-d0af28d4422a.JPG

    https://www.eduopinions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Peking-University-PKU-logo-140x100.png

    http://www.neance.fr/3256-pos_medium/logo-ps4-controller-juventus-turin.jpg


    https://image.sggp.org.vn/w560/Uploaded/2020/nkdkswkqoc/original/images235910_1.jpg

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Autochthon

    The interesting example in my list is the Madras High Court, which is, of course, a part of the appellate judiciary and thus, part of the government. They haven’t bothered with the name change.

    I looked them up, and the Bombay and Calcutta High Courts haven’t changed their names either.

    • Replies: @Malla
    @PiltdownMan

    And 'Bollywood' is still 'Bollywood', not 'Mollywood'.

  105. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    White males are already – politically and legally – the Dalits of North America and western Europe.
     
    I can't imagine Untouchables holding most of the top positions in subcontinental government, commerce, and academia, though.

    Replies: @Medvedev, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous

    The current President of India is a Dalit. He is second Dalit to become President. India’s largest state had a Dalit Chief Minister (equivalent of Gov. of a US state) in the past. Ex- Chief Justice of Supreme court was a Dalit. Many of parliamentarians, ministers were & still are Dalits.

    In academia, there are reserved seats for Dalits and there are plenty of teachers/ professors who are dalits.

    In commerce, there is a Dalit Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DICCI) which boasts of 5000 members. There is a public procurement policy which mandates that 4% of all Central Govt & Public sector company purchases must be from Dalit owned enterprises.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    Congratulations! You win "Screen Name of the Day"!

  106. @SimpleSong
    @Edward

    True enough, but I stand by my general point: Tata is no Toyota, for example, and India + Pakistan + Bangladesh has fewer market leaders than, say, just SK or just Japan or just China, or arguably, just Taiwan, much less all of them combined. ArecelorMittal is more of an international conglomerate with a lot of Indian heritage, as opposed to something like Huawei which is very much a product of China.

    As for subcontinentals being the new Jews, yes, definitely.

    I also agree that Satya Nadella has been an excellent CEO although a lot of that seems to be him picking up million dollar bills lying on the ground that Steve Ballmer had ignored. For example cloud services: Amazon had already shown it could work and make a lot of money. A lot of potential customers such as large retailers were never ever going to put their data on an Amazon server. They also had long enough histories with Oracle to know that any contract with Oracle was a deal with the devil. So that leaves Microsoft and Google as the only people with enough scale and capital to credibly compete in this space, and they both have done so successfully.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    So that leaves Microsoft and Google as the only people with enough scale and capital to credibly compete in this space, and they both have done so successfully.

    Microsoft One Drive is a good Cloud product and they have the advantage of being able to integrate it directly into the Windows OS, making it transparent for the user to take advantage of the Cloud capability.

    That said, I don’t know how Microsoft or any of the other Cloud providers haven’t had a huge data breach yet. Perhaps they screen the employees in charge of One Drive very tightly and compensate them very well, with a good work-life balance. That would seem to remove the temptation to steal user data.

    Nadella has been very good for the most part. I really like the Microsoft Surface and Surface Pro product lines with the detachable keyboards. MS has managed to cram the functionality of a laptop into a large tablet. There is no better form factor for someone who travels extensively. You wouldn’t think there’s a huge different between the Surface Pro that weighs 2.5 lbs and is 0.5″ thick versus an ultrabook laptop that weighs 4 lbs and is 0.75″ thick, but there is if you spend enough time on the road.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Right, but Microsoft 10 still stinks.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

  107. @Twinkie
    @Mr McKenna


    I’ve an idea! How about East Asians and South Asians stay in East Asia and South Asia?
     
    You are getting your wish with East Asians, but not with South Asians. There is practically no immigration from Japan today. Korean immigration has cratered. Eventually, so will Chinese as its economy modernizes and grows. However, the last twenty years have seen a massive growth in South Asian immigration. The latter were a tiny fraction of Asians in the US in the past decades, but now account for a quarter and is growing fast. Indians in America will likely overtake the Chinese in the coming decades, and you will recall the good ol’ days of the past when the “Asians” in America were the patriotic Japanese or the Christian Koreans or the Chinese whose restaurants stayed open during holidays.

    Replies: @Anon, @SOL

    The Japanese-American descendants today tend to be SJWs.

  108. @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @Steve Sailer

    Microsoft makes money from 2 sources. Microsoft Office which is default product across the corporate world and Microsoft Cloud services (Azure). Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anon, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.

    At a constant cost to customers. Microsoft Office is like cable TV combined with Amazon’s “Ring” now.

  109. @Rob
    Do corporate Indians integrate? Do they drop Hinduism, the caste system, and marry whites and Asians? Do they leave India behind. It seems we could handle having a few million dark skinned Americans, but if they’re a people who dwell alone, an exploitive elite, and the vanguard of an invasion, then they need to be repatriated. Hopefully the income and wealth leveling of the Sanders presidency will make the feel unwelcome enough to go back voluntarily.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @SOL

    I’ve seen plenty of first-gen Indian immigrants dating or even marrying white women, and a few Chinese women, and many of the women are not unattractive. What’s the analogue of burning the coal here? I do think they value white women for some reason.

  110. @Just passing through
    @BB753

    Why is it that India is known for open defecation when there are various countries in Africa that have much higher open-defecation rates?

    Is it just funny to mention because they do things like sending probes to Mars but can't build toilets for the vast swathes of the population?

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @BB753, @Anonymous

    Rates, perhaps, but when this became a policy issue in the news about a decade ago, I recall Indians were about 500 million of the 600 million worldwide total practicing it. So, it’s identified with them.

    Googling the subject, they’re down to about 20-30 million (they built a lot of outhouses in the last few years) but nobody cares about that. These impressions, er, linger on.

  111. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @J.Ross

    And yet Microsoft continues to make bundles of bucks instead of going the way of Xerox and Polaroid.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous, @Lot, @Anon87

    Microsoft has a network effect monopoly that protects it from competition.

    Xerox and Polaroid had hardware products that were open to competition and eventually replaced by better mousetraps.

    Most people use Microsoft products because everybody else that they work with or in their line of work already do, not because they choose it among a pool of competing products. If all your clients are using Word and Excel and you have to exchange documents and spreadsheets with them, you have to use Office even if you hate it and would use something else if you had the option.

    Large companies with a significant amount of monopoly power like Microsoft are protected from competition and have reliable revenue streams. In those environments, the ability to climb the corporate ladder is more valuable than being a good employee that helps the company, because the company’s monopoly is going to protect it from competition and ensure it stays in business and makes money regardless.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    Xerox and Polaroid had hardware products that were open to competition and eventually replaced by better mousetraps.
     
    Tell that to Kodak and the people who bought the Kodak instant picture camera.

    Polaroid allowed third parties to make cameras, or backs for medium and large format cameras and specialized oscilloscope and medical recording devices, that took Polaroid's film, but they did not allow third parties to make Polaroid instant picture film materials, which was where the real profit was. They also made it impossible to sell a competing system in the US.

    Kodak introduced a single piece, sealed picture system similar to the SX-70 system, except that it had several differences both to get around Polaroid patents and because it was both cheaper and for the purposes of its users, better. Polaroid sued them and eventually Kodak withdrew the product and bought back and destroyed the cameras.

    Kodak Instant


    Kodak manufactured Polaroid's instant film products from 1963 to 1969. Polaroid decided to manufacture its own. Since Kodak has a lot of experience manufacturing Polaroid's film the original plan was to create packfilm type instant products. There were many prototypes and test runs of the film with many private demonstrations to their board. Plans changed when Polaroid in 1972 released the integral type film with the introduction of the SX-70 system. Kodak decided to scrap the plans for packfilm release and focus on an integral type process. Kodak continued to use highly modified versions of Polaroid packfilm cameras as prototypes to test their integral products.

    A few years later Kodak introduced its own instant film products in 1976, which was different from Polaroid's in several ways. Kodak instant film was exposed from the back without a mirror, the opposite of Polaroid's film which was exposed from the front with a mirror to reverse the image. This has several advantages; first the instant film is much less complicated compared to Polaroids which has the front layer that has to be transparent during exposure, opaque after the chemical spread and transparent after a development time. Kodak's method uses the chemical reagent as a light shield during development. The instant film in this process is capable of higher resolution compared to Polaroid's system since light does not have to travel as many layers to reach the negative. Other advantages include being able to use a matte finish on the face of the photo. The release of the higher ISO Trimprint series of instant products in the early 1980 also made it easy to remove the instant photo from the development pod. Without a mirror the camera are not as complex and less expensive to produce. The film path being much simpler also allow the use of a simple mechanical crank to spread and eject the film print instead of a electronic motorized unit in Polaroids.

    On the other side of the pacific, Fujifilm also wanted an instant photo system. Though not identical, it was primary based on Kodak's instant film technology. For more see Fujifilm instant photography.

    Unlike Polaroids integral film packs, Kodak's did not contain a battery, along with conventional batteries, the use of a flat J sized 4LR61 batteries were also common in the cameras. This decision was made because it would cost less per pack and because Polaroid had a long history of technical problems with batteries in film packs which led to them manufacturing their own.

    Upon introduction of Kodak instant products, Polaroid filed suit against Kodak in 1976 for patent infringement. The case dragged on for years. Kodak lost the dispute, after the ruling in 1985, Kodak announced the discontinuation of their instant photo products.
     
    http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Kodak_Instant

    Most people use Microsoft products because everybody else that they work with or in their line of work already do, not because they choose it among a pool of competing products. If all your clients are using Word and Excel and you have to exchange documents and spreadsheets with them, you have to use Office even if you hate it and would use something else if you had the option.
     
    Many competing products offer Word and Excel compatible outputs, and have since the beginning. In the case of text, there are also universal formats like RTF and good old plain text files.

    However, most businesses want Microsoft because they presume all their new hires already know how to use it and because all their IT vendors know how to support it. They want those people to be as fungible a commodity as possible because an employee with skills specific to an employer is less easily replaced. In fact, most new hires really do not know how to use Office at anything above a minimal level, nor are most helpdesk people very good at supporting them, but the fiction remains.

    There is also the phenomenon that no one is ever going to be fired for selecting Microsoft Windows and Office. Go with something else and when any issues develop they will be looking to pin it on you. That was why IBM often had worse products than any of the BUNCH, but got the lion's share of corporate business, in the mainframe days. There was also the issue that many of the others were even more difficult to deal with than was IBM. Like Microsoft, IBM only had to be less stupid than the competition.
  112. Anonymous[368] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    White males are already – politically and legally – the Dalits of North America and western Europe.
     
    I can't imagine Untouchables holding most of the top positions in subcontinental government, commerce, and academia, though.

    Replies: @Medvedev, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous

    Perhaps.

    But those ‘top dogs’ that you mention are generally the most vicious anti white male discriminators around.

    Why else do you think that legal – and explicit and vicious – racial and sex discrimination against white men is not only the norm in the modern West but is applauded for being ‘virtuous’ and praise and kudos is heaped upon the power people in direct proportion to the vehemence they are seen to enforce it?

  113. @Just passing through
    @BB753

    Why is it that India is known for open defecation when there are various countries in Africa that have much higher open-defecation rates?

    Is it just funny to mention because they do things like sending probes to Mars but can't build toilets for the vast swathes of the population?

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @BB753, @Anonymous

    “Is it just funny to mention because they do things like sending probes to Mars but can’t build toilets for the vast swathes of the population?”

    You’ve got it exactly right.

  114. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @SimpleSong


    So that leaves Microsoft and Google as the only people with enough scale and capital to credibly compete in this space, and they both have done so successfully.
     
    Microsoft One Drive is a good Cloud product and they have the advantage of being able to integrate it directly into the Windows OS, making it transparent for the user to take advantage of the Cloud capability.

    That said, I don't know how Microsoft or any of the other Cloud providers haven't had a huge data breach yet. Perhaps they screen the employees in charge of One Drive very tightly and compensate them very well, with a good work-life balance. That would seem to remove the temptation to steal user data.

    Nadella has been very good for the most part. I really like the Microsoft Surface and Surface Pro product lines with the detachable keyboards. MS has managed to cram the functionality of a laptop into a large tablet. There is no better form factor for someone who travels extensively. You wouldn't think there's a huge different between the Surface Pro that weighs 2.5 lbs and is 0.5" thick versus an ultrabook laptop that weighs 4 lbs and is 0.75" thick, but there is if you spend enough time on the road.

    Replies: @BB753

    Right, but Microsoft 10 still stinks.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @BB753

    Yes and no.

    Windows 10 is a huge improvement on Windows 8. 8 was far too biased towards touchscreens. Most of that has been cleaned up.

    Windows 10 doesn't significantly improve on Windows 7's stability and adds some questionable complexity under the hood.

    On the other hand, I like the generally simpler graphics used in Win 10's windows. Much less base load than Win 7 Aero and cleaner than the basic legacy appearance of windows in Win 7.

    Windows Defender has also been massively improved, making expensive, CPU and disk-intensive, intrusive anti-virus software unecessary for most people.

  115. What any American with a shred of self-preservation should be asking is, Why do any Asians have leadership positions in the United States?

  116. @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @Reg Cæsar

    The current President of India is a Dalit. He is second Dalit to become President. India's largest state had a Dalit Chief Minister (equivalent of Gov. of a US state) in the past. Ex- Chief Justice of Supreme court was a Dalit. Many of parliamentarians, ministers were & still are Dalits.

    In academia, there are reserved seats for Dalits and there are plenty of teachers/ professors who are dalits.

    In commerce, there is a Dalit Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DICCI) which boasts of 5000 members. There is a public procurement policy which mandates that 4% of all Central Govt & Public sector company purchases must be from Dalit owned enterprises.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Congratulations! You win “Screen Name of the Day”!

  117. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Microsoft has a network effect monopoly that protects it from competition.

    Xerox and Polaroid had hardware products that were open to competition and eventually replaced by better mousetraps.

    Most people use Microsoft products because everybody else that they work with or in their line of work already do, not because they choose it among a pool of competing products. If all your clients are using Word and Excel and you have to exchange documents and spreadsheets with them, you have to use Office even if you hate it and would use something else if you had the option.

    Large companies with a significant amount of monopoly power like Microsoft are protected from competition and have reliable revenue streams. In those environments, the ability to climb the corporate ladder is more valuable than being a good employee that helps the company, because the company's monopoly is going to protect it from competition and ensure it stays in business and makes money regardless.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Xerox and Polaroid had hardware products that were open to competition and eventually replaced by better mousetraps.

    Tell that to Kodak and the people who bought the Kodak instant picture camera.

    Polaroid allowed third parties to make cameras, or backs for medium and large format cameras and specialized oscilloscope and medical recording devices, that took Polaroid’s film, but they did not allow third parties to make Polaroid instant picture film materials, which was where the real profit was. They also made it impossible to sell a competing system in the US.

    Kodak introduced a single piece, sealed picture system similar to the SX-70 system, except that it had several differences both to get around Polaroid patents and because it was both cheaper and for the purposes of its users, better. Polaroid sued them and eventually Kodak withdrew the product and bought back and destroyed the cameras.

    Kodak Instant

    Kodak manufactured Polaroid’s instant film products from 1963 to 1969. Polaroid decided to manufacture its own. Since Kodak has a lot of experience manufacturing Polaroid’s film the original plan was to create packfilm type instant products. There were many prototypes and test runs of the film with many private demonstrations to their board. Plans changed when Polaroid in 1972 released the integral type film with the introduction of the SX-70 system. Kodak decided to scrap the plans for packfilm release and focus on an integral type process. Kodak continued to use highly modified versions of Polaroid packfilm cameras as prototypes to test their integral products.

    A few years later Kodak introduced its own instant film products in 1976, which was different from Polaroid’s in several ways. Kodak instant film was exposed from the back without a mirror, the opposite of Polaroid’s film which was exposed from the front with a mirror to reverse the image. This has several advantages; first the instant film is much less complicated compared to Polaroids which has the front layer that has to be transparent during exposure, opaque after the chemical spread and transparent after a development time. Kodak’s method uses the chemical reagent as a light shield during development. The instant film in this process is capable of higher resolution compared to Polaroid’s system since light does not have to travel as many layers to reach the negative. Other advantages include being able to use a matte finish on the face of the photo. The release of the higher ISO Trimprint series of instant products in the early 1980 also made it easy to remove the instant photo from the development pod. Without a mirror the camera are not as complex and less expensive to produce. The film path being much simpler also allow the use of a simple mechanical crank to spread and eject the film print instead of a electronic motorized unit in Polaroids.

    On the other side of the pacific, Fujifilm also wanted an instant photo system. Though not identical, it was primary based on Kodak’s instant film technology. For more see Fujifilm instant photography.

    Unlike Polaroids integral film packs, Kodak’s did not contain a battery, along with conventional batteries, the use of a flat J sized 4LR61 batteries were also common in the cameras. This decision was made because it would cost less per pack and because Polaroid had a long history of technical problems with batteries in film packs which led to them manufacturing their own.

    Upon introduction of Kodak instant products, Polaroid filed suit against Kodak in 1976 for patent infringement. The case dragged on for years. Kodak lost the dispute, after the ruling in 1985, Kodak announced the discontinuation of their instant photo products.

    http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Kodak_Instant

    Most people use Microsoft products because everybody else that they work with or in their line of work already do, not because they choose it among a pool of competing products. If all your clients are using Word and Excel and you have to exchange documents and spreadsheets with them, you have to use Office even if you hate it and would use something else if you had the option.

    Many competing products offer Word and Excel compatible outputs, and have since the beginning. In the case of text, there are also universal formats like RTF and good old plain text files.

    However, most businesses want Microsoft because they presume all their new hires already know how to use it and because all their IT vendors know how to support it. They want those people to be as fungible a commodity as possible because an employee with skills specific to an employer is less easily replaced. In fact, most new hires really do not know how to use Office at anything above a minimal level, nor are most helpdesk people very good at supporting them, but the fiction remains.

    There is also the phenomenon that no one is ever going to be fired for selecting Microsoft Windows and Office. Go with something else and when any issues develop they will be looking to pin it on you. That was why IBM often had worse products than any of the BUNCH, but got the lion’s share of corporate business, in the mainframe days. There was also the issue that many of the others were even more difficult to deal with than was IBM. Like Microsoft, IBM only had to be less stupid than the competition.

  118. @Edward
    @SimpleSong

    Tata is a world-class company that was set up in India, which has taken over a number of Britain's most treasured car companies. Mittal Steel was one of the largest producers of steel in the world, and is now the largest, set up by the Indian-born billionaire Lakshmi Mittal (I believe he has British citizenship now). In 2005 Mittal was the third-richest person in the world. I'd argue that InfoSys is another world-class company.

    As for CEOs not mattering, the evidence suggests otherwise. Indra Nooyi, an Indian-American, was the CEO of PepsiCo. She was widely regarded as one of the best CEOs in the world.

    Similarly, the Indian-American Satya Nadella has been credited with turning around Microsoft's fortunes. He was named the Financial Times's person of the year in 2019:


    Microsoft was at risk of technological irrelevance but the chief executive has presided over an era of stunning wealth creation... The growing wealth and power of Big Tech over the past decade has been a defining feature of modern capitalism. Yet even judged by the standards of most of his peers, Mr Nadella stands out.

    By the end of November, the total return generated for Microsoft shareholders during his near-six year tenure passed $1tn. Contrast that with the moment when he took over as only the third CEO in Microsoft’s history, and the software company looked like it might be on the fast track to technological irrelevance.
     

    https://www.ft.com/content/0e8c3002-20c7-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96

    Indians in the West are the new Ashkenazi Jews. The former UK Conservative Party Deputy Chairman, Lord Jeffrey Archer, was very prescient in 2008:


    Lord Archer: Indians are the ‘new Jews’ and are taking over Britain

    Britain is being “taken over” by Indians and will one day have an Indian prime minister, according to Tory peer Lord Archer.
     

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/2066401/Lord-Archer-Indians-are-the-new-Jews-and-are-taking-over-Britain.html

    Indeed, who do we have in the UK Conservative Government's Cabinet? The second-most powerful person in the country, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Finance Minister), is the Oxford and Stanford-educated Rishi Sunak, who is himself married to the Stanford-educated daughter of an Indian billionaire. The third-most powerful politician in the country is Priti Patel, whose Indian parents fled Uganda when Idi Amin tried to expel them. And the Business Secretary (who has also been put in charge of the UN Climate Change Conference to be held in Glasgow), is Alok Sharma.

    One of the top three contenders to be the next Leader of the Opposition (leader of the Labour Party) in the UK is Lisa Nandy, who is the daughter of an Indian-born academic and his English wife.

    Interestingly, and contrary to some of the comments above, British Indians do not appear to be too ethnocentric:


    British Indians are twice as likely to marry outside their ethnic group as British Pakistanis are; 70 per cent of British Indian women work, which is close to the national average. And according to the think tank Demos, they are far more likely to live in multi-ethnic neighbourhoods, instead of the homogeneous areas where many British Pakistanis reside.
     
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html

    In the US, there appear to be lots of "HinJew" couples, particularly in the DC area. (Incidentally, at medical school at an elite UK university, I had a friend of Asian Indian origin who had a full-scale IQ north of 150. He was in the top three of the cohort, and got together with an Ashkenazi Jewish girl who was in the top three of her compsci cohort.)

    I suspect that some of the Indian-East Asian difference is due to verbal IQ (which might be why Indians and Jews attract each other). Indian-Americans have an estimated IQ of 112, similar to Ashkenazi Jews, and I suspect that Indian-Americans are all-rounders, in that their verbal IQ is similar to their non-verbal IQ (so, around 112 for each). East Asians, by contrast, have verbal IQs of around 100. Ashkenazi Jews might have verbal IQs of 120 or 125.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @SimpleSong, @JohnnyWalker123

    The Chinese outmarry a lot more in the UK than the Indians. Indians outmarry more than the Pakis.

  119. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    @Lawyer Guy

    Eddie gets a lot of blame, but was there really any possible way to save Sears and K-Mart?

    If a competing retail concept is 3% better than the prior one, that can be enough to gradually kill it off. Payless Shoes, Bon Ton, Circuit City, Radio Shack, A&P, Borders, etc seem to fit this mold.

    In some cases the death was hastened by some last minute attempts at radical reform that failed. But if they had done nothing management would be attacked for not trying to right a sinking ship.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Sears, Roebuck would do well as a destination store if it simply did exactly what it did in the 1950s through the late 1980s. Clean, pleasant, well lit, stores with Sears branded good merchandise with excellent parts and service support sold by pleasant, knowledgeable pros who were earning a decent living, with a lunch counter and the nuts and candy department that made the store smell nice, and stuff appealing to both male ( tools, automotive, lawn and garden) and female (apparel, furniture and services) customers.

    People would pay a premium over the big box stores staffed by minimum wage doofuses for genuinely good products properly supported. Unfortunately, Sears products have went from generally pretty good to excellent , to generally mediocre to crappy and often abysmal, the stores are staffed by people who don’t know their ass from a hole in the linoleum, they are dirty and unorganized, and anything Sears sells can be had elsewhere cheaper.

    Most retail businesses-and perhaps most businesses generally-fail because they lose their will to live. Here in Kansas City, the Winsteads hamburger chain has shut down, all but the original downtown store. What killed them? Was it health conscious consumers, a change in tastes, aggressive competition? Nope. The stores were dirty, the bathrooms in every single location stunk of sewer gas, the waitresses were inattentive and slovenly, and the burgers were rotten meat-the secret of the place was that the burger meat was a little high, but I got burgers with meat that was downright rotten on several occasions, with fries that were either raw or burnt, and a soft drink that was flat and tasted bad. I quit going to the one by work and so did the people I work with.

    It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to clean the store up, hire decent people, and serve fresh burger meat and fries properly cooked and clean and recalibrate the soda fountain. Does it? Apparently, because that never happened. They shut down about a year ago and already most of the locations have been bulldozed and replaced, several by the St. Louis based Lions Choice roast beef joints, which are quite good.

    In the case of Sears, there is the complication that Lampert may well want the stores to fail so he can stripmine the real estate that decades of prudent management and quality service paid for.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Anonymous


    ...I got burgers with meat that was downright rotten on several occasions, with fries that were either raw or burnt...
     
    Sounds like the typical burger joint in North Africa.

    Yum!
  120. @Edward
    @MG

    You don't give your brethren enough credit! (Not that I'm denying Indians are - how shall we put it? - loquacious?)


    Anil K. Jain – the father of biometrics and computer vision – is the most cited person in the field of computer science and electronics.

    Ajay Bhatt is the inventor of Universal Serial Bus (USB) technology.

    Vinod Dham was the founder of the famous Intel Pentium processor and co-invented Intel’s first flash memory technology.

    Arogyaswami J. Paulraj is the inventor of multiple-input and multiple-output (MIMO), an essential element of wireless communication systems including 3G and 4G.

    Narinder Singh Kapany is the father of fibre optic technology.

    Ramanathan Guha invented the Rich Site Summary feed – also known as the RSS Feed. He also invented the Meta Content Framework (MCF) and the Resource Description Framework (RDF).

    Krishna Palem is the inventor of the probabilistic complementary metal-oxide semiconductor (PCMOS), which the MIT Technology Review highlighted as one of the 10 technologies that are “most likely to change the way we live”, in 2008.

    Rakesh Agarwal – who holds fifty-five patents – is the most cited author in the field of database systems.
     

    Replies: @MG

    Vinod Dham? Bwahahahahaha. “Founder” of the Pentium? Ajay Bhatt didn’t invent the USB. Intel simply needed an ad to promote “diversity.” You seem to have cogged the list Indians have been emailing among themselves for a decade to prove how smart they are. The only worthwhile guy in your list is Narender Kapany.

    • Replies: @Hong Xiu Quan
    @MG

    Remember this?

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/36-of-scientists-at-NASA-are-Indians-Govt-survey/articleshow/2853178.cms

    'Indians' in the West are locked into identifying with the pseudo-nation of India, ok reality most of identify with their own little castes, but when the country is made fun of because of the behaviours of the lower-castes (whom they would treat badly in India) the Western Indians are forced to either accept this humiliation or go on the offensive, unfortunately they let their emotions get the better of them when on the offensive and get sucked into repeating fake news.

    Replies: @Malla

  121. @Steve Sailer
    @J.Ross

    And yet Microsoft continues to make bundles of bucks instead of going the way of Xerox and Polaroid.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous, @Lot, @Anon87

    Xerox is still around, and currently trying to hostile takeover HP, which is several times larger.

    I hope they don’t, HP makes the longest lasting hardware. I have an HP laserjet and LCD monitor* that I purchased *used* in 2007 and both still work perfectly, even as the computers they use have failed.

    *HP didn’t make the LCD panel itself, that would be LG or Samsung, or less likely NEC. But they designed everything else and correctly chose what panel to use.

    The printer jams less than once a year and takes 10 seconds to clear when it does.

  122. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Some good points there.

    Chinese are loud and obnoxious when among other Chinese. When among non-Chinese, they are easily cowed. That's why they can only succeed in their own countries.

    I can see how, due to the caste system, those in the upper castes are used to being top dog, so when they go to other societies, they continue to act like top dog due to higher confidence.

    Indians are also very much like Jews in that they are much more loquacious. First gen Indians may go into STEM because they need that H1b visa and green card, but by second generation they usually go into law, politics, banking, consulting, journalism, medicine like the Jews, while the East Asians tend to stick to STEM. The winners of US math and science Olympiads are overwhelmingly East Asian, while South Asians excel in spelling bee, Intel Science etc. that calls for research and presentation.

    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

    Indians are also power hungry like the Jews. Indian women are entering politics in droves. Their new shtick is claiming brown status. They are increasingly referring to themselves as "brown women" and "brown people of color", which increases their oppressed status. The US will soon be run over by these BAE -- Bullshit Artists of the East. (((Our masters))) prefer them because they are better bootlickers than whites but a little smarter and less violent than blacks and hispanics. We are well on our way to becoming the next India.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Malla, @JohnnyWalker123

    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

    Oy Vey, I was just reading a book, ‘Observations on the State of Society Among the Asiatic Subjects of Great Britain‘ by Charles Grant written in the 1790s. It is about observations about Indian in the 1700s. I say, the author is accurate in his judgement of Indians and Indian society in general. Check it out, no doubt we Indians are perfect for the cutthroat satanic Judaic Corporate World of America. And what this gentleman had so accurately observed in the 1700s, is that how things are even now? Now in 2020? You bet, we remain the same.

    Anyways, some snippets from the book
    (from Chapter II of the book: View of the State of Society among the Hindoo Subjects of Great Britain, particularly with respect to Morals. )

    “The generality however of those who have written concerning Hindostan, appear to have concurred in affirming what foreign residents there have as generally thought, nay, what the natives themselves freely acknowledge of each other, that they are a people exceedingly depraved.

    ….snip….

    Now as these corruptions begin not in the practice of the courts of law, but have their origin in the character of the people, it is just to state them in illustration of that character; for although the legal reforms introduced by Lord Cornwallis will purify, it may be hoped, the fountains of justice, yet the best administration of law will not eradicate the internal principles of depravity.

    Selfishness, in a word, unrestrained by principle, operates universally ; and money, the grand instrument of selfish gratifications, may be called the supreme idol of the Hindoos. Deprived for the most part of political power, and destitute of boldness of spirit, but formed for business, artful, frugal, and persevering, they are absorbed in schemes for the gratification of avarice.

    The tendency of that abandoned selfishness is to set ” every man’s hand against ever man,” either in projels, or in acts of open force. From violence however, fear interposes to restrain them. The people of the lower provinces in particular, with an exception of the military caste, are as dastardly as they are unprincipled. They seek their ends by mean artifices, low cunning, intrigue, falsehood, servility, and hypocritical obsequiousness. To superiors they appear full of reverence, of humble and willing submission, and readiness to do every thing that may be required of them; and as long as they discern something either to expect or to fear, they are wonderfully patient of slights, neglects, and injuries. But under all this apparent passiveness and meanness of temper, they are immovably persisting in their secret views. With inferiors, they indemnify themselves by an indulgence of the feelings which were controlled before; and towards dependents, especially towards those whom an official situation subjects to their authority, they carry themselves with the mean pride of low minds. In the inferior, and by far the most numerous class of the community, where each man is nearly on a level with his neighbour, the native character appears with less disguise. The passions have a freer range, and new consequences are seen to result from the absence of the primary virtues of society. Discord, hatred, abuse, slanders, injuries, complaints, and litigations, all the effects of selfishness unrestrained by principle, prevail to a surprising degree. They overspread the land, they come perpetually before all men in authority. The deliberate malice, the falsehood, the calumnies, and and the avowed enmity with which the people pursue each other, and sometimes from father to son, offer a very mortifying view of the human character.
    No stranger can sit down among them without being struck with this temper of malevolent contention and animosity, as a prominent feature in the character of the society. It is seen in every village, the inhabitants live among each other in a sort of repulsive state, nay it enters into almost every family. Seldom is there a household without its internal divisions, and lading enmities,
    most commonly too on the score of interest. The women partake of this spirit of discord. Held in slavish subjection by the men, they rife in furious passions against each other, which vent themselves in such loud, virulent, and indecent railings, as are hardly to be heard in any other part of the world. ”

  123. @PiltdownMan
    @Reg Cæsar

    The interesting example in my list is the Madras High Court, which is, of course, a part of the appellate judiciary and thus, part of the government. They haven’t bothered with the name change.

    I looked them up, and the Bombay and Calcutta High Courts haven’t changed their names either.

    Replies: @Malla

    And ‘Bollywood’ is still ‘Bollywood’, not ‘Mollywood’.

  124. @donut
    @BB753

    The next time there is a big Medicare/Medicaid fraud scandal check the names , overwhelmingly East Indian .

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    East Indian?

  125. @BB753
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Right, but Microsoft 10 still stinks.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Yes and no.

    Windows 10 is a huge improvement on Windows 8. 8 was far too biased towards touchscreens. Most of that has been cleaned up.

    Windows 10 doesn’t significantly improve on Windows 7’s stability and adds some questionable complexity under the hood.

    On the other hand, I like the generally simpler graphics used in Win 10’s windows. Much less base load than Win 7 Aero and cleaner than the basic legacy appearance of windows in Win 7.

    Windows Defender has also been massively improved, making expensive, CPU and disk-intensive, intrusive anti-virus software unecessary for most people.

    • Agree: BB753
  126. @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @Steve Sailer

    Microsoft makes money from 2 sources. Microsoft Office which is default product across the corporate world and Microsoft Cloud services (Azure). Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anon, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Satya Nadella converted most of the Microsoft revenues into subscription model there by ensuring smooth cash flows every year.

    That was probably one of their best moves.

    More people are more willing to autopay $100/year charged to their credit card to have use of Office for another year than they are willing to cough up $300-500 for a new version of Office every 2-3 years.

    The network effect mentioned above also protects a lot of this cash flow. Alternatives like Google Docs, Zoho, NeoOffice, and LibreOffice are getting *very good* at translating documents to and from Office, but they are not perfect. That keeps them out of significant corporate and academic spaces where the more sophisticated Office features, like in-line equations in Word, are required.

  127. @Anonymous
    @Lot

    Sears, Roebuck would do well as a destination store if it simply did exactly what it did in the 1950s through the late 1980s. Clean, pleasant, well lit, stores with Sears branded good merchandise with excellent parts and service support sold by pleasant, knowledgeable pros who were earning a decent living, with a lunch counter and the nuts and candy department that made the store smell nice, and stuff appealing to both male ( tools, automotive, lawn and garden) and female (apparel, furniture and services) customers.

    People would pay a premium over the big box stores staffed by minimum wage doofuses for genuinely good products properly supported. Unfortunately, Sears products have went from generally pretty good to excellent , to generally mediocre to crappy and often abysmal, the stores are staffed by people who don't know their ass from a hole in the linoleum, they are dirty and unorganized, and anything Sears sells can be had elsewhere cheaper.

    Most retail businesses-and perhaps most businesses generally-fail because they lose their will to live. Here in Kansas City, the Winsteads hamburger chain has shut down, all but the original downtown store. What killed them? Was it health conscious consumers, a change in tastes, aggressive competition? Nope. The stores were dirty, the bathrooms in every single location stunk of sewer gas, the waitresses were inattentive and slovenly, and the burgers were rotten meat-the secret of the place was that the burger meat was a little high, but I got burgers with meat that was downright rotten on several occasions, with fries that were either raw or burnt, and a soft drink that was flat and tasted bad. I quit going to the one by work and so did the people I work with.

    It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to clean the store up, hire decent people, and serve fresh burger meat and fries properly cooked and clean and recalibrate the soda fountain. Does it? Apparently, because that never happened. They shut down about a year ago and already most of the locations have been bulldozed and replaced, several by the St. Louis based Lions Choice roast beef joints, which are quite good.

    In the case of Sears, there is the complication that Lampert may well want the stores to fail so he can stripmine the real estate that decades of prudent management and quality service paid for.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    …I got burgers with meat that was downright rotten on several occasions, with fries that were either raw or burnt…

    Sounds like the typical burger joint in North Africa.

    Yum!

  128. Anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @82-IQ H1B Indian
    @Rob

    There is something interesting I observed in US. Indian Americans always give Indian names to their kids. Where as Chinese give Americanized names. I met Jennifer (Wang)/ Kevin (Liu) etc but unless someone is an Indian Christian, I did not see Indian parents naming their kids Joe/John/Steve etc. So No. Indian Americans will not give up Hinduism. As far as caste is concerned, it's influence is continuously going both in India as well as abroad. It will continue to go down.
    First generation immigrant obviously will not marry white/Asians. Even in second generation, Indian Americans are probably not likely to marry outside of race. May be they are not see as high value catch by Whites/Asians.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    1) When Europeans landed in Virginia, did they adopt the religion of the Native Americans? Did they start giving their kids names like Geronimo? Why do they still practice Christianity which has nothing to do with the Americas? Why should we Indians drop our religion which we have had going back 3,000 years? At least we have our own religion, and not some offshoot of someone else’s religion from the Middle East. Our religion survived close to a thousand years of Turk Islamic conquest and a few hundred years of European Christian conquest. Unless you can give me some proof of the miracles of your God who makes prayers demonstrably come true, I see no reason to dishonor my ancestral roots.

    2) It’s clear you guys don’t like dark people marrying white women. So when Hindus have a preference even in America for marrying within their own community (and often within their own caste still), why are you so bothered by it?

    • Replies: @Malla
    @Anonymous


    When Europeans landed in .....I see no reason to dishonor my ancestral roots.
     
    Well you can keep your Hindu name and culture as much as you want but what "H1B Indian" was pointing out was the contrast in between East Asians and South Asians. The Japanese or Chinese or Koreans or Vietnamese have a deep histories and cultures too. And yet many of them give Anglo first names to their kids unlike South Asians.
    As far as Europeans in the Americas versus Asian Indians in North America, the Europeans were conquerors who fought native American armies. Asian Indians like many others are immigrants who were allowed to "come in". If you want a true parallel between both the cases, Asian Indians and other immigrants would have had to fight the US/Canadian military, defeat the US/Canadian military and then take abode in North America. Not the Indian Army vs the US/Canadian Army but immigrants vs the US/Canadian Army. And that would have been sooo impossible.
    So yes, you can keep your Hindu names and religion but the European conquest of North America is not the same as Asian Indian migration to North America. Not even close.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Twinkie
    @Anonymous

    Are you suggesting South Asians are coming to this country as invaders and colonizers, rather than as those seeking to assimilate into being Americans?

  129. @MG
    @Edward

    Vinod Dham? Bwahahahahaha. “Founder” of the Pentium? Ajay Bhatt didn’t invent the USB. Intel simply needed an ad to promote “diversity.” You seem to have cogged the list Indians have been emailing among themselves for a decade to prove how smart they are. The only worthwhile guy in your list is Narender Kapany.

    Replies: @Hong Xiu Quan

    Remember this?

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/36-of-scientists-at-NASA-are-Indians-Govt-survey/articleshow/2853178.cms

    ‘Indians’ in the West are locked into identifying with the pseudo-nation of India, ok reality most of identify with their own little castes, but when the country is made fun of because of the behaviours of the lower-castes (whom they would treat badly in India) the Western Indians are forced to either accept this humiliation or go on the offensive, unfortunately they let their emotions get the better of them when on the offensive and get sucked into repeating fake news.

    • Replies: @Malla
    @Hong Xiu Quan


    ‘Indians’ in the West are locked into identifying with the pseudo-nation of India,
     
    Well traditionally it is true that India was a pseudo nation (though the Indian Subcontinent was a unique civilization which absorbed many foreign ideas as well as exported some ideas abroad) and that the most Hindus in the past (and to a lower extent today) identified more with their clan or caste than all Indians unlike how an Englishman identified with England in say 1800, 200 years of governance of India by the British as a united polity, an united independence struggle, increased transport and communications (thanks to White people's inventions) has created a sense of united nationhood today. Add to that the mistaken idea/propaganda in India (probably pushed by the Indian deep state) that somehow the world wants to break India apart or keep India down, especially the West or China or Pakistan, further helps keep India together. The fear of the evil outsider.
    And many nations who are proper nations today were too created by the amalgamation of smaller peoples somewhere in the past, may it be China or Germany.

    Replies: @Anon

  130. @Hong Xiu Quan
    @MG

    Remember this?

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/36-of-scientists-at-NASA-are-Indians-Govt-survey/articleshow/2853178.cms

    'Indians' in the West are locked into identifying with the pseudo-nation of India, ok reality most of identify with their own little castes, but when the country is made fun of because of the behaviours of the lower-castes (whom they would treat badly in India) the Western Indians are forced to either accept this humiliation or go on the offensive, unfortunately they let their emotions get the better of them when on the offensive and get sucked into repeating fake news.

    Replies: @Malla

    ‘Indians’ in the West are locked into identifying with the pseudo-nation of India,

    Well traditionally it is true that India was a pseudo nation (though the Indian Subcontinent was a unique civilization which absorbed many foreign ideas as well as exported some ideas abroad) and that the most Hindus in the past (and to a lower extent today) identified more with their clan or caste than all Indians unlike how an Englishman identified with England in say 1800, 200 years of governance of India by the British as a united polity, an united independence struggle, increased transport and communications (thanks to White people’s inventions) has created a sense of united nationhood today. Add to that the mistaken idea/propaganda in India (probably pushed by the Indian deep state) that somehow the world wants to break India apart or keep India down, especially the West or China or Pakistan, further helps keep India together. The fear of the evil outsider.
    And many nations who are proper nations today were too created by the amalgamation of smaller peoples somewhere in the past, may it be China or Germany.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Malla

    India was united by various dynasties in the past, like Mughals, Guptas, Mauryas.

    Not true that the British were the first empire to unite India.

    The British were against Indian nationalism, preferring to encourage caste and religious divisions. They didn't create the divisions, but they acted to create
    as much enmity as they could.

    The Congress tried hard to create a united India after 1947, but nationalism never became especially widespread. Today's India is very casteist and anti-secular, with very tribalistic politicians.

    Replies: @Malla, @Malla

  131. @Anonymous
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    1) When Europeans landed in Virginia, did they adopt the religion of the Native Americans? Did they start giving their kids names like Geronimo? Why do they still practice Christianity which has nothing to do with the Americas? Why should we Indians drop our religion which we have had going back 3,000 years? At least we have our own religion, and not some offshoot of someone else's religion from the Middle East. Our religion survived close to a thousand years of Turk Islamic conquest and a few hundred years of European Christian conquest. Unless you can give me some proof of the miracles of your God who makes prayers demonstrably come true, I see no reason to dishonor my ancestral roots.

    2) It's clear you guys don't like dark people marrying white women. So when Hindus have a preference even in America for marrying within their own community (and often within their own caste still), why are you so bothered by it?

    Replies: @Malla, @Twinkie

    When Europeans landed in …..I see no reason to dishonor my ancestral roots.

    Well you can keep your Hindu name and culture as much as you want but what “H1B Indian” was pointing out was the contrast in between East Asians and South Asians. The Japanese or Chinese or Koreans or Vietnamese have a deep histories and cultures too. And yet many of them give Anglo first names to their kids unlike South Asians.
    As far as Europeans in the Americas versus Asian Indians in North America, the Europeans were conquerors who fought native American armies. Asian Indians like many others are immigrants who were allowed to “come in”. If you want a true parallel between both the cases, Asian Indians and other immigrants would have had to fight the US/Canadian military, defeat the US/Canadian military and then take abode in North America. Not the Indian Army vs the US/Canadian Army but immigrants vs the US/Canadian Army. And that would have been sooo impossible.
    So yes, you can keep your Hindu names and religion but the European conquest of North America is not the same as Asian Indian migration to North America. Not even close.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Malla

    To come as a violent conqueror is even worse. It's immoral and rapacious.

    Claims of White moral superiority are laughable.

    Replies: @Malla

  132. @Lot
    @Twinkie

    Who’s been evolving for the tech ceo role the past 1000 years?

    https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/traditional-chinese-framer-using-ox-to-plow-field-plant-planting-guangxi-zhuang-autonomous-region-asa-guangxi-province-58512616.jpg

    http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/stb/lots/N08/N08922/N08922-93_web.jpg.thumb.500.500.png

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Yup, the Jews pioneered the merit-based exam system to choose government officials for thousands of years.

    Oh, wait, those were East Asians.

    No, Jews were serving as rapacious middlemen tax collectors to kings and despots and oppressed the peasantry for hundreds of years. Yup, perfect for CEOs of tech companies.

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie

    Could you explain what you see as the important cultural&behavioral differences between the Chinese and Koreans?

    Thank you.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  133. @Anonymous
    @82-IQ H1B Indian

    1) When Europeans landed in Virginia, did they adopt the religion of the Native Americans? Did they start giving their kids names like Geronimo? Why do they still practice Christianity which has nothing to do with the Americas? Why should we Indians drop our religion which we have had going back 3,000 years? At least we have our own religion, and not some offshoot of someone else's religion from the Middle East. Our religion survived close to a thousand years of Turk Islamic conquest and a few hundred years of European Christian conquest. Unless you can give me some proof of the miracles of your God who makes prayers demonstrably come true, I see no reason to dishonor my ancestral roots.

    2) It's clear you guys don't like dark people marrying white women. So when Hindus have a preference even in America for marrying within their own community (and often within their own caste still), why are you so bothered by it?

    Replies: @Malla, @Twinkie

    Are you suggesting South Asians are coming to this country as invaders and colonizers, rather than as those seeking to assimilate into being Americans?

  134. @Twinkie
    @Lot

    Yup, the Jews pioneered the merit-based exam system to choose government officials for thousands of years.

    Oh, wait, those were East Asians.

    No, Jews were serving as rapacious middlemen tax collectors to kings and despots and oppressed the peasantry for hundreds of years. Yup, perfect for CEOs of tech companies.

    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Confucian.jpg

    https://smoodock45.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/levi-the-tax-collector.jpg

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Could you explain what you see as the important cultural&behavioral differences between the Chinese and Koreans?

    Thank you.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    what you see as the important cultural&behavioral differences between the Chinese and Koreans?
     
    That would take a few books!

    Basically, I see a significant and notable difference in civic culture - China's is roughly 20-25 years of economic development behind that of South Korea's. And the former also suffers from the recent history of Maoist communism.

    Genetically - for whatever that is worth - the South Koreans are somewhat closer to the Japanese than they are to the Chinese.

    As far as immigrants from the two countries, the Koreans are going to be more assimilative (higher intermarriage rates with whites, higher military service rate, etc.) than the Chinese, because they tend to be far more Christian (the Koreans in America are 70-80% Christian while the Chinese in America are about 30-35%) and because they don't come from a "world-historical" culture that has a strong pull (which manifests in things like higher English monolingualism, i.e. the Koreans born in America are far more likely to speak only English than the Chinese born in America, more of who retain the ability to speak their parental tongue).

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  135. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Some good points there.

    Chinese are loud and obnoxious when among other Chinese. When among non-Chinese, they are easily cowed. That's why they can only succeed in their own countries.

    I can see how, due to the caste system, those in the upper castes are used to being top dog, so when they go to other societies, they continue to act like top dog due to higher confidence.

    Indians are also very much like Jews in that they are much more loquacious. First gen Indians may go into STEM because they need that H1b visa and green card, but by second generation they usually go into law, politics, banking, consulting, journalism, medicine like the Jews, while the East Asians tend to stick to STEM. The winners of US math and science Olympiads are overwhelmingly East Asian, while South Asians excel in spelling bee, Intel Science etc. that calls for research and presentation.

    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

    Indians are also power hungry like the Jews. Indian women are entering politics in droves. Their new shtick is claiming brown status. They are increasingly referring to themselves as "brown women" and "brown people of color", which increases their oppressed status. The US will soon be run over by these BAE -- Bullshit Artists of the East. (((Our masters))) prefer them because they are better bootlickers than whites but a little smarter and less violent than blacks and hispanics. We are well on our way to becoming the next India.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Malla, @JohnnyWalker123

    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

    Chutzpah is very common among people from West Asia. Mediterranean Europeans, Arabs, Persians, Turks, Israelis, North Africans, Subcons. “White Hispanics” like Cubans (who have a lot of Iberian ancestry) are very much apart of the Chutzpah-sphere too.

    It’s a region that produces lots of “carpet salesmen.” The type who constantly refer to you as “my friend” when you walk into their store. Very sociable and hospitable, but not to be trusted.

    Watch “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” to learn more. This 1-minute clip is worth watching to see how Whites and West Asians view one another.

    To be fair, White Gentiles have a culture of bullsh*tting too, but they’re more agreeable and less assertive. They’re more of the “good old boy.” Like “Dubya” Bush or “Slick Willy” Clinton. For whatever reason, the South and Texas produce lots of these types.

    The high-Chutzpah West Asians are probably better at noisily asserting themselves in social interactions, but the “good old boys” are more likable and charismatic.

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    https://babylonbee.com/news/joel-osteen-dives-off-stage-prevent-man-opening-bible

    https://mediadc.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/c43f894/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2500x1667+0+0/resize/2500x1667!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediadc.brightspotcdn.com%2Fa7%2F49%2F1dcaa40d47f8b8b98f9df4c73a21%2Fbob.v23-34-Hemingway-Osteen.jpg

    , @Malla
    @JohnnyWalker123


    White Hispanics” like Cubans (who have a lot of Iberian ancestry)
     
    What about Mestizo or Pure native Amerindian Hispanics or black Hispanics? Are they a Chutzpah people?

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  136. @Reg Cæsar
    @PiltdownMan

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/rf/image_size_960x540/HT/p2/2018/05/08/Pictures/_8f51f2ca-5289-11e8-aa60-d0af28d4422a.JPG

    https://www.eduopinions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Peking-University-PKU-logo-140x100.png

    http://www.neance.fr/3256-pos_medium/logo-ps4-controller-juventus-turin.jpg


    https://image.sggp.org.vn/w560/Uploaded/2020/nkdkswkqoc/original/images235910_1.jpg

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Autochthon

    Exactly. It’s just like how Amerindians all call themselves “”Indians” and don’t give a tinker’s damn about the Atlanta Braves, the Washington Redskins, and the Cleveland Indians; nor do actual Irishmen mind the Fighting Irish and the Boston Celtics (despite the mispronunciation).

    This stuff is all for virtue-signalling jackasses, and the real people referred to are at worst indifferent, and, in many cases, flattered.

    Bring back McDonalds’ (McDonald’s?) Chicken Salad Oriental, I say!

  137. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Anonymous


    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

     

    Chutzpah is very common among people from West Asia. Mediterranean Europeans, Arabs, Persians, Turks, Israelis, North Africans, Subcons. "White Hispanics" like Cubans (who have a lot of Iberian ancestry) are very much apart of the Chutzpah-sphere too.

    It's a region that produces lots of "carpet salesmen." The type who constantly refer to you as "my friend" when you walk into their store. Very sociable and hospitable, but not to be trusted.

    Watch "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" to learn more. This 1-minute clip is worth watching to see how Whites and West Asians view one another.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWispEM3900

    To be fair, White Gentiles have a culture of bullsh*tting too, but they're more agreeable and less assertive. They're more of the "good old boy." Like "Dubya" Bush or "Slick Willy" Clinton. For whatever reason, the South and Texas produce lots of these types.

    The high-Chutzpah West Asians are probably better at noisily asserting themselves in social interactions, but the "good old boys" are more likable and charismatic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arufakC_AMQ

    Replies: @Autochthon, @Malla

    • LOL: JohnnyWalker123
  138. @Anonymous
    Speaking as an East Asian, several factors are in play here:

    1) Poor English skills. Many first gen East Asian immigrants speak with a heavy accent and aren't easy to understand. This is especially prevalent in the tech industry.

    2) Perceived lack of confidence: Humility and introversion are very much a part of East Asian culture, qualities that aren't helpful in a dog-eat-dog corporate world where bravado, arrogance and extroversion are interpreted as "leadership skills". As it says in the book In Spite of the Gods, "Put ten Chinese in a room and no one would speak, put ten Indians in a room and no one would shut up."

    3) Appearance: the unspoken. East Asians tend to be shorter and also look very different from Caucasians. Indians look different too but they don't have those epicanthic folds. Nobody's afraid of the East Asian manager.

    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they're better workers but because they're easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @PaceLaw, @ATBOTL, @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    4) Lack of clannishness: Indians are extremely clannish like Jews and blacks. Indian managers prefer to hire/promote other Indians not because they’re better workers but because they’re easier to collude with or bully. East Asians repel one another, many have even more self-hate than whites.

    Could you elaborate more on this point?

    I’m curious how East Asian clannishness compares to the type of clannishness you see among Jews, Indians, Middle Easterners, etc.

  139. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Anonymous


    My take is that South Asians are much more shameless bullshitters like Jews and blacks. The Jews call it chutzpah or shameless dishonesty.

     

    Chutzpah is very common among people from West Asia. Mediterranean Europeans, Arabs, Persians, Turks, Israelis, North Africans, Subcons. "White Hispanics" like Cubans (who have a lot of Iberian ancestry) are very much apart of the Chutzpah-sphere too.

    It's a region that produces lots of "carpet salesmen." The type who constantly refer to you as "my friend" when you walk into their store. Very sociable and hospitable, but not to be trusted.

    Watch "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" to learn more. This 1-minute clip is worth watching to see how Whites and West Asians view one another.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWispEM3900

    To be fair, White Gentiles have a culture of bullsh*tting too, but they're more agreeable and less assertive. They're more of the "good old boy." Like "Dubya" Bush or "Slick Willy" Clinton. For whatever reason, the South and Texas produce lots of these types.

    The high-Chutzpah West Asians are probably better at noisily asserting themselves in social interactions, but the "good old boys" are more likable and charismatic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arufakC_AMQ

    Replies: @Autochthon, @Malla

    White Hispanics” like Cubans (who have a lot of Iberian ancestry)

    What about Mestizo or Pure native Amerindian Hispanics or black Hispanics? Are they a Chutzpah people?

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Malla

    No. Meztizos and full-blooded Indios are usually agreeable, pleasant, and unambitious. Sort of similar to Filipinos.

    Black Hispanics seem to have traits of Meztizos, Africans, and White Spaniards. Sort of a mix of all three. Probably more pleasant and agreeable than American Blacks.

    Is there any difference in Chutzpah between the North and South Indians? Are Punjabis more into Chutzpah than Tamils? I would think there's at least a small difference, but I could be wrong.

    Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins? I'd be genuinely curious to know the answer to that.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Malla

  140. @Steve Sailer
    @Edward

    Microsoft has made a huge amount of money over the last decade for a firm with outmoded products.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross, @Bumpkin

    Yes, and so did IBM for three decades till Microsoft passed them in revenue too:

    What he and others are referring to is the market share of sales of their once flagship product, Windows, dropping to one-tenth of competing mobile products like Android and iOS, a category Microsoft completely missed. It is only a matter of time till the money goes away too, as the technical underpinnings are now gone.

    I don’t blame Nadella for this, as this is the inevitable life cycle of giant corporations, with many bad decisions made by Steve Ballmer before him, who was very bright but not a tech guy. Uber-geeks like Gates who have the entrepreneurial skills to build a giant Microsoft or google don’t have the political chops to rise at a similar conglomerate founded by someone else, so decline and fall is the common outcome. It is extremely rare for another founder-type or visionary to ever rise to the top after the initial founder.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bumpkin

    I think Sears was famous for having three visionary CEOs in about 40 years from say 1895 to 1935.

    Replies: @Bumpkin

  141. @Malla
    @JohnnyWalker123


    White Hispanics” like Cubans (who have a lot of Iberian ancestry)
     
    What about Mestizo or Pure native Amerindian Hispanics or black Hispanics? Are they a Chutzpah people?

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    No. Meztizos and full-blooded Indios are usually agreeable, pleasant, and unambitious. Sort of similar to Filipinos.

    Black Hispanics seem to have traits of Meztizos, Africans, and White Spaniards. Sort of a mix of all three. Probably more pleasant and agreeable than American Blacks.

    Is there any difference in Chutzpah between the North and South Indians? Are Punjabis more into Chutzpah than Tamils? I would think there’s at least a small difference, but I could be wrong.

    Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins? I’d be genuinely curious to know the answer to that.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @JohnnyWalker123

    >Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins? I’d be genuinely curious to know the answer to that.

    Dalits who have chutzpah and ambition usually end up converting to another religion. Islam is the most common choice, for obvious reasons, but Christianity and Buddhism are also increasingly found. It's not hard to see why they'd find a universalistic Abrahamic faith open to anybody regardless of social status or race far more appealing than native traditions which basically tell them their duty is to humbly accept subhuman status, much like the despised Hakkas of 19th Century China rejected state Confucianism in favor of Christianity.

    One cannot understand Hindu nationalist animus toward Islam without grasping how they view it: that 1/3rd of the South Asian "family", broadly defined, left Hinduism to follow the religion of the conquerors. And that a sizable chunk of them probably came from a caste that everybody was socially conditioned to expect fatalistic submission out of.

    , @Malla
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Is there any difference in Chutzpah between the North and South Indians?
     
    To be honest if there is any difference at all, it is very small. North Indians having more chutzpah. South Indians are not much behind in this.

    Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins?
     
    All of us have Chutzpah, Brahmins and other upper caste types like banias are just more smarter and better at playing with words on average. Higher Verbal IQs.

    I would say that the Mongoloid/semi-Mongoloids of the North East of India (Seven Sister States) and Ladakh region have less Chutzpah than the Caucasoid type mainlander Indians and are more pleasant. Same with the Bhutanese and the Mountain (Pahari) Nepalese.
    The average Bangladeshi (except maybe the Mongoloids of the Chittagong Hill tracts), Pakistanis, Maldivians and Sri Lankans are all high Chutzpah folks but I guess the Buddhist Sinhalese of Sri Lanka are a little mild compared to the other Desis but still much higher Chutzpah than the average Mongoloid Bhutanese.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  142. @Bumpkin
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, and so did IBM for three decades till Microsoft passed them in revenue too:
    https://zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/04/24/c5e4c5b4-8145-4cb6-a93f-5c89a7b9021e/resize/770xauto/4b0d44a7ab090f30d8ee508b0a1b40ec/chartgo-ibm-ms-1996-2016-square.png

    What he and others are referring to is the market share of sales of their once flagship product, Windows, dropping to one-tenth of competing mobile products like Android and iOS, a category Microsoft completely missed. It is only a matter of time till the money goes away too, as the technical underpinnings are now gone.

    I don't blame Nadella for this, as this is the inevitable life cycle of giant corporations, with many bad decisions made by Steve Ballmer before him, who was very bright but not a tech guy. Uber-geeks like Gates who have the entrepreneurial skills to build a giant Microsoft or google don't have the political chops to rise at a similar conglomerate founded by someone else, so decline and fall is the common outcome. It is extremely rare for another founder-type or visionary to ever rise to the top after the initial founder.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I think Sears was famous for having three visionary CEOs in about 40 years from say 1895 to 1935.

    • Replies: @Bumpkin
    @Steve Sailer

    Sears and Rosenwald were practically co-founders, with the latter buying in three years after the founding. Wood probably qualifies, but I didn't say it never happens, just very rare.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  143. @Steve Sailer
    @Bumpkin

    I think Sears was famous for having three visionary CEOs in about 40 years from say 1895 to 1935.

    Replies: @Bumpkin

    Sears and Rosenwald were practically co-founders, with the latter buying in three years after the founding. Wood probably qualifies, but I didn’t say it never happens, just very rare.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bumpkin

    I'm trying to think of another firm where they had more than two brilliant CEOs.

  144. @Bumpkin
    @Steve Sailer

    Sears and Rosenwald were practically co-founders, with the latter buying in three years after the founding. Wood probably qualifies, but I didn't say it never happens, just very rare.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I’m trying to think of another firm where they had more than two brilliant CEOs.

  145. Anon[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla
    @Hong Xiu Quan


    ‘Indians’ in the West are locked into identifying with the pseudo-nation of India,
     
    Well traditionally it is true that India was a pseudo nation (though the Indian Subcontinent was a unique civilization which absorbed many foreign ideas as well as exported some ideas abroad) and that the most Hindus in the past (and to a lower extent today) identified more with their clan or caste than all Indians unlike how an Englishman identified with England in say 1800, 200 years of governance of India by the British as a united polity, an united independence struggle, increased transport and communications (thanks to White people's inventions) has created a sense of united nationhood today. Add to that the mistaken idea/propaganda in India (probably pushed by the Indian deep state) that somehow the world wants to break India apart or keep India down, especially the West or China or Pakistan, further helps keep India together. The fear of the evil outsider.
    And many nations who are proper nations today were too created by the amalgamation of smaller peoples somewhere in the past, may it be China or Germany.

    Replies: @Anon

    India was united by various dynasties in the past, like Mughals, Guptas, Mauryas.

    Not true that the British were the first empire to unite India.

    The British were against Indian nationalism, preferring to encourage caste and religious divisions. They didn’t create the divisions, but they acted to create
    as much enmity as they could.

    The Congress tried hard to create a united India after 1947, but nationalism never became especially widespread. Today’s India is very casteist and anti-secular, with very tribalistic politicians.

    • Replies: @Malla
    @Anon


    India was united by various dynasties in the past, like Mughals, Guptas, Mauryas.
     
    And how long did these united empires under the Mauriyas and Guptas last???? And there are a lot of speculation about the extent of their empires anyways. And who told us about these glorious Gupta and Maurya empires of the past we had all but forgotten about? Why the evul British and officers of the East India Company who did research in Indian history.

    When the Mughals tried conquering all of India, they collapsed due to imperial over reach at least that is what one theory says. The Mughal empire collapse after Aurangzeb. The Maratha Empire which may have had united the subcontinent was itself unwieldy with multiple power centers such as the Peshwa in Pune, the Bhosale family in Satara and the Holkars and Scindias outside and many a times they nearly went to war against each other.

    Something tells me uniting the subcontinent was no easy affair. India (subcontinent) has been more disunited and united in its history. Compared to that, the British did a remarkable job, not only united the subcontinent but made it part of a larger empire over which the sun never sets.
    Of course some tiny bits were under the French and Portuguese and 30% of the land was under princely states in whose affairs, the Central Government of India of the Raj had very little influence. So not a perfect unification, but close.
    , @Malla
    @Anon


    The British were against Indian nationalism, preferring to encourage caste and religious divisions. They didn’t create the divisions, but they acted to create
    as much enmity as they could.
     
    This is bullshit trope pushed by the Indian education system. The British kept India together. When the British left, India fell apart (Pakistan).
    As far as British being against Indian nationalism well, India is against Kashmir nationalism or Naga nationalism in the North East. But what is strange is the secretary of State of India in the 1920s, Montague in his Mongatue-Clemsford reforms wrote that "We believe that nationhood within the Empire represents something better than anything India has hitherto attained; that the placid, pathetic contentment of the masses is not the soil on which such Indian nationhood will grow, and that in deliberately disturbing it, we are working for her highest good."
    Oy Vey, what this means that the British Government was unhappy about the content masses of British India happy with the Raj and thus "disturbances" are to be given to this system will lead to the growth of Indian nationalism!!!! Imagine the Governor of Jammu and Kashmir or Nagaland state writing something like that in a government report. The Indian Government would have had him arrested.

    Also

    To Macaulay in 1833, the issue was between stagnation and progress, between the mentality of despotism and that of liberty; and he could not hesitate between them. England should bestow the most precious treasure of her heritage, the living conscious spirit of her civilization, upon India. He was not indifferent to the possibility that this might lead India to demand political freedom. If it did, that would be "the proudest day in English history." That was what this great Whig historian had declared to the House of Commons not two years since, and apparently so many of his compatriots were of the same mind that few saw anything startling in such a prophecy.

  146. @Malla
    @Anonymous


    When Europeans landed in .....I see no reason to dishonor my ancestral roots.
     
    Well you can keep your Hindu name and culture as much as you want but what "H1B Indian" was pointing out was the contrast in between East Asians and South Asians. The Japanese or Chinese or Koreans or Vietnamese have a deep histories and cultures too. And yet many of them give Anglo first names to their kids unlike South Asians.
    As far as Europeans in the Americas versus Asian Indians in North America, the Europeans were conquerors who fought native American armies. Asian Indians like many others are immigrants who were allowed to "come in". If you want a true parallel between both the cases, Asian Indians and other immigrants would have had to fight the US/Canadian military, defeat the US/Canadian military and then take abode in North America. Not the Indian Army vs the US/Canadian Army but immigrants vs the US/Canadian Army. And that would have been sooo impossible.
    So yes, you can keep your Hindu names and religion but the European conquest of North America is not the same as Asian Indian migration to North America. Not even close.

    Replies: @Anon

    To come as a violent conqueror is even worse. It’s immoral and rapacious.

    Claims of White moral superiority are laughable.

    • Replies: @Malla
    @Anon


    To come as a violent conqueror is even worse.
     
    Very common in human history. And there is something called the right of conquest. And had Anglos not settled in such large numbers in North America, North America would be at best like Mexico and Australia likewise would have been like a Papua New Guinea. New Zealand a Maori Mexico down south. Then how many desis would have even wanted to migrate to these places? Whites fought the natives and built up the place, built it up so good than millions of desis desire to migrate/work/study in these places. I do not see a long line of Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis outside the embassies of Papua New Guinea or Guatemala for visas. I wonder why???
  147. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Malla

    No. Meztizos and full-blooded Indios are usually agreeable, pleasant, and unambitious. Sort of similar to Filipinos.

    Black Hispanics seem to have traits of Meztizos, Africans, and White Spaniards. Sort of a mix of all three. Probably more pleasant and agreeable than American Blacks.

    Is there any difference in Chutzpah between the North and South Indians? Are Punjabis more into Chutzpah than Tamils? I would think there's at least a small difference, but I could be wrong.

    Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins? I'd be genuinely curious to know the answer to that.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Malla

    >Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins? I’d be genuinely curious to know the answer to that.

    Dalits who have chutzpah and ambition usually end up converting to another religion. Islam is the most common choice, for obvious reasons, but Christianity and Buddhism are also increasingly found. It’s not hard to see why they’d find a universalistic Abrahamic faith open to anybody regardless of social status or race far more appealing than native traditions which basically tell them their duty is to humbly accept subhuman status, much like the despised Hakkas of 19th Century China rejected state Confucianism in favor of Christianity.

    One cannot understand Hindu nationalist animus toward Islam without grasping how they view it: that 1/3rd of the South Asian “family”, broadly defined, left Hinduism to follow the religion of the conquerors. And that a sizable chunk of them probably came from a caste that everybody was socially conditioned to expect fatalistic submission out of.

  148. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Malla

    No. Meztizos and full-blooded Indios are usually agreeable, pleasant, and unambitious. Sort of similar to Filipinos.

    Black Hispanics seem to have traits of Meztizos, Africans, and White Spaniards. Sort of a mix of all three. Probably more pleasant and agreeable than American Blacks.

    Is there any difference in Chutzpah between the North and South Indians? Are Punjabis more into Chutzpah than Tamils? I would think there's at least a small difference, but I could be wrong.

    Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins? I'd be genuinely curious to know the answer to that.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Malla

    Is there any difference in Chutzpah between the North and South Indians?

    To be honest if there is any difference at all, it is very small. North Indians having more chutzpah. South Indians are not much behind in this.

    Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins?

    All of us have Chutzpah, Brahmins and other upper caste types like banias are just more smarter and better at playing with words on average. Higher Verbal IQs.

    I would say that the Mongoloid/semi-Mongoloids of the North East of India (Seven Sister States) and Ladakh region have less Chutzpah than the Caucasoid type mainlander Indians and are more pleasant. Same with the Bhutanese and the Mountain (Pahari) Nepalese.
    The average Bangladeshi (except maybe the Mongoloids of the Chittagong Hill tracts), Pakistanis, Maldivians and Sri Lankans are all high Chutzpah folks but I guess the Buddhist Sinhalese of Sri Lanka are a little mild compared to the other Desis but still much higher Chutzpah than the average Mongoloid Bhutanese.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Malla

    In Canada, the Sikh population has done very well in politics. They seem to be very well represented in the Canadian parliament and PM's cabinet. I remember reading that Sikhs have a reputation for being very brash and aggressive, but I don't know if there's any truth to that.

    There are Tamil refugees in Canada too, but I haven't heard much about them in politics. So I thought it was maybe possible that there are personality differences between Northern and Southern Indians.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p8Mf6a2s_Q


    All of us have Chutzpah, Brahmins and other upper caste types like banias are just more smarter and better at playing with words on average. Higher Verbal IQs.

     

    I see. So would a smart untouchable behave and talk like a Brahmin?

    I would say that the Mongoloid/semi-Mongoloids of the North East of India (Seven Sister States) and Ladakh region have less Chutzpah than the Caucasoid type mainlander Indians
     
    I read that they have strong warrior abilities too. Aren't the Gurkhas the best fighters in India?

    Replies: @Malla

  149. @Anon
    @Malla

    To come as a violent conqueror is even worse. It's immoral and rapacious.

    Claims of White moral superiority are laughable.

    Replies: @Malla

    To come as a violent conqueror is even worse.

    Very common in human history. And there is something called the right of conquest. And had Anglos not settled in such large numbers in North America, North America would be at best like Mexico and Australia likewise would have been like a Papua New Guinea. New Zealand a Maori Mexico down south. Then how many desis would have even wanted to migrate to these places? Whites fought the natives and built up the place, built it up so good than millions of desis desire to migrate/work/study in these places. I do not see a long line of Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis outside the embassies of Papua New Guinea or Guatemala for visas. I wonder why???

  150. @Anon
    @Malla

    India was united by various dynasties in the past, like Mughals, Guptas, Mauryas.

    Not true that the British were the first empire to unite India.

    The British were against Indian nationalism, preferring to encourage caste and religious divisions. They didn't create the divisions, but they acted to create
    as much enmity as they could.

    The Congress tried hard to create a united India after 1947, but nationalism never became especially widespread. Today's India is very casteist and anti-secular, with very tribalistic politicians.

    Replies: @Malla, @Malla

    India was united by various dynasties in the past, like Mughals, Guptas, Mauryas.

    And how long did these united empires under the Mauriyas and Guptas last???? And there are a lot of speculation about the extent of their empires anyways. And who told us about these glorious Gupta and Maurya empires of the past we had all but forgotten about? Why the evul British and officers of the East India Company who did research in Indian history.

    When the Mughals tried conquering all of India, they collapsed due to imperial over reach at least that is what one theory says. The Mughal empire collapse after Aurangzeb. The Maratha Empire which may have had united the subcontinent was itself unwieldy with multiple power centers such as the Peshwa in Pune, the Bhosale family in Satara and the Holkars and Scindias outside and many a times they nearly went to war against each other.

    Something tells me uniting the subcontinent was no easy affair. India (subcontinent) has been more disunited and united in its history. Compared to that, the British did a remarkable job, not only united the subcontinent but made it part of a larger empire over which the sun never sets.
    Of course some tiny bits were under the French and Portuguese and 30% of the land was under princely states in whose affairs, the Central Government of India of the Raj had very little influence. So not a perfect unification, but close.

  151. I’m trying to think of another firm where they had more than two brilliant CEOs.

    Jim Collins wrote a whole book about companies with great CEOs who came after the founder:

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/76865.Good_to_Great

    Before that, he covered those who were founded with imagination and kept it through several generations.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4122.Built_to_Last

    However, this book is said to have had a curse similar to Sports Illustrated’s.

    The Watsons, father and son, ran IBM for over 50 years, the Galvins Motorola for over 60, the Nordstroms, over 90.

    https://newsroom.ibm.com/former-CEOs

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-motorola-galvin/robert-galvin-long-time-ceo-of-motorola-dies-idUSTRE79B7M720111012

    You’ve Probably Never Heard 1 Single Word About the CEO of Nordstrom. Here’s the Surprising Reason Why

  152. @Malla
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Is there any difference in Chutzpah between the North and South Indians?
     
    To be honest if there is any difference at all, it is very small. North Indians having more chutzpah. South Indians are not much behind in this.

    Are there any caste differences? Do Untouchables have less Chutzpah than Brahmins?
     
    All of us have Chutzpah, Brahmins and other upper caste types like banias are just more smarter and better at playing with words on average. Higher Verbal IQs.

    I would say that the Mongoloid/semi-Mongoloids of the North East of India (Seven Sister States) and Ladakh region have less Chutzpah than the Caucasoid type mainlander Indians and are more pleasant. Same with the Bhutanese and the Mountain (Pahari) Nepalese.
    The average Bangladeshi (except maybe the Mongoloids of the Chittagong Hill tracts), Pakistanis, Maldivians and Sri Lankans are all high Chutzpah folks but I guess the Buddhist Sinhalese of Sri Lanka are a little mild compared to the other Desis but still much higher Chutzpah than the average Mongoloid Bhutanese.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    In Canada, the Sikh population has done very well in politics. They seem to be very well represented in the Canadian parliament and PM’s cabinet. I remember reading that Sikhs have a reputation for being very brash and aggressive, but I don’t know if there’s any truth to that.

    There are Tamil refugees in Canada too, but I haven’t heard much about them in politics. So I thought it was maybe possible that there are personality differences between Northern and Southern Indians.

    All of us have Chutzpah, Brahmins and other upper caste types like banias are just more smarter and better at playing with words on average. Higher Verbal IQs.

    I see. So would a smart untouchable behave and talk like a Brahmin?

    I would say that the Mongoloid/semi-Mongoloids of the North East of India (Seven Sister States) and Ladakh region have less Chutzpah than the Caucasoid type mainlander Indians

    I read that they have strong warrior abilities too. Aren’t the Gurkhas the best fighters in India?

    • Replies: @Malla
    @JohnnyWalker123


    In Canada, the Sikh population has done very well in politics.
     
    Sikhs have been numerous in Canada much longer than Tamils. Indeed going to Canada has been a dream of many a people from the Punjab (where most Sikhs are found) for decades now. Canada was a hotbed of Sikh Khalistani separatists (wanted independence from India for a Khalistan nation) and hence the Indian external security agency RAW (Research and Analysis Wing, India's CIA/KGB/MI6) was very active in Canada trying to discredit them.

    I see. So would a smart untouchable behave and talk like a Brahmin?
     
    Maybe but there is something about Brahmins which set them apart in my opinion and experience. Exceptionally high verbal IQ.

    Aren’t the Gurkhas the best fighters in India?
     
    Very true. A Gurkha from Nepal (there are Indian Gurkhas too) can enlist in the Nepali Army, Indian Army or the British Army.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  153. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Malla

    In Canada, the Sikh population has done very well in politics. They seem to be very well represented in the Canadian parliament and PM's cabinet. I remember reading that Sikhs have a reputation for being very brash and aggressive, but I don't know if there's any truth to that.

    There are Tamil refugees in Canada too, but I haven't heard much about them in politics. So I thought it was maybe possible that there are personality differences between Northern and Southern Indians.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p8Mf6a2s_Q


    All of us have Chutzpah, Brahmins and other upper caste types like banias are just more smarter and better at playing with words on average. Higher Verbal IQs.

     

    I see. So would a smart untouchable behave and talk like a Brahmin?

    I would say that the Mongoloid/semi-Mongoloids of the North East of India (Seven Sister States) and Ladakh region have less Chutzpah than the Caucasoid type mainlander Indians
     
    I read that they have strong warrior abilities too. Aren't the Gurkhas the best fighters in India?

    Replies: @Malla

    In Canada, the Sikh population has done very well in politics.

    Sikhs have been numerous in Canada much longer than Tamils. Indeed going to Canada has been a dream of many a people from the Punjab (where most Sikhs are found) for decades now. Canada was a hotbed of Sikh Khalistani separatists (wanted independence from India for a Khalistan nation) and hence the Indian external security agency RAW (Research and Analysis Wing, India’s CIA/KGB/MI6) was very active in Canada trying to discredit them.

    I see. So would a smart untouchable behave and talk like a Brahmin?

    Maybe but there is something about Brahmins which set them apart in my opinion and experience. Exceptionally high verbal IQ.

    Aren’t the Gurkhas the best fighters in India?

    Very true. A Gurkha from Nepal (there are Indian Gurkhas too) can enlist in the Nepali Army, Indian Army or the British Army.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Malla


    Maybe but there is something about Brahmins which set them apart in my opinion and experience. Exceptionally high verbal IQ.

     

    The Brahmins had to read, understand, and explain the religious texts. So their culture and genetics have evolved toward verbal sophistry. That might be the best explanation.

    Which Indian caste/language groups are the best at working with their hands? There must be castes who assembled products and sold them.

    The interesting thing is this. You see Indians who are good talkers. You see some Indians who are good (or at least average) at science, math, and technology (like Ramanujan).

    You don't see much ability to work with hands.

    India seems to manufacture and export very little. Even with the really low cost of labor, they don't do manufacturing and export. They do coding and English call center services, but they can't build anything. Even Bangladesh, which strongly encourages manufacturing and exports, is very poor at this. Indians seem to have very poor/underdeveloped ability to work with their hands.

    Is this something due to the caste system or is it genetic? Maybe Indians view working with their hands to be below them, but they like to study books. So they produce lots of IT graduates, but they disdain manual labor too much. So only the lowest people work with their hands.

    I don't know if anything I'm saying is true here, but it's a hypothesis.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Malla

  154. @Anon
    @Malla

    India was united by various dynasties in the past, like Mughals, Guptas, Mauryas.

    Not true that the British were the first empire to unite India.

    The British were against Indian nationalism, preferring to encourage caste and religious divisions. They didn't create the divisions, but they acted to create
    as much enmity as they could.

    The Congress tried hard to create a united India after 1947, but nationalism never became especially widespread. Today's India is very casteist and anti-secular, with very tribalistic politicians.

    Replies: @Malla, @Malla

    The British were against Indian nationalism, preferring to encourage caste and religious divisions. They didn’t create the divisions, but they acted to create
    as much enmity as they could.

    This is bullshit trope pushed by the Indian education system. The British kept India together. When the British left, India fell apart (Pakistan).
    As far as British being against Indian nationalism well, India is against Kashmir nationalism or Naga nationalism in the North East. But what is strange is the secretary of State of India in the 1920s, Montague in his Mongatue-Clemsford reforms wrote that “We believe that nationhood within the Empire represents something better than anything India has hitherto attained; that the placid, pathetic contentment of the masses is not the soil on which such Indian nationhood will grow, and that in deliberately disturbing it, we are working for her highest good.”
    Oy Vey, what this means that the British Government was unhappy about the content masses of British India happy with the Raj and thus “disturbances” are to be given to this system will lead to the growth of Indian nationalism!!!! Imagine the Governor of Jammu and Kashmir or Nagaland state writing something like that in a government report. The Indian Government would have had him arrested.

    Also

    To Macaulay in 1833, the issue was between stagnation and progress, between the mentality of despotism and that of liberty; and he could not hesitate between them. England should bestow the most precious treasure of her heritage, the living conscious spirit of her civilization, upon India. He was not indifferent to the possibility that this might lead India to demand political freedom. If it did, that would be “the proudest day in English history.” That was what this great Whig historian had declared to the House of Commons not two years since, and apparently so many of his compatriots were of the same mind that few saw anything startling in such a prophecy.

  155. Anonymous[289] • Disclaimer says:
    @Just passing through
    @BB753

    Why is it that India is known for open defecation when there are various countries in Africa that have much higher open-defecation rates?

    Is it just funny to mention because they do things like sending probes to Mars but can't build toilets for the vast swathes of the population?

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @BB753, @Anonymous

    There are peculiar cultural issues involved. Cleaning up crap, even your own, is low status work. A high status person craps wherever they like without worrying about the mess.

    (This is not just an Indian thing. European aristocrats used to have similar attitudes. I remember reading somewhere about a British king and his retinue who visited some rich guy’s palace and left turds everywhere but in the privy.)

  156. I’ve wondered about this. The ‘East Asians’ grouping seems to be quite broad tho; anecdotally from what I’ve experienced, Chinese tend to be extremely aggressive, more so than Indians, to the degree that their naked ambition is often off putting. Indians on the other hand tend to be much more political, calculating and long-term focused and self-oriented tacticians. These are gross generalizations but broadly true from my experience of working with both sets of Asians in the US. The Koreans are much milder and nicer, and the Japanese (only the few that Ive worked with) are even more reserved to the point of being almost introverted.

    Assertiveness is one aspect, but I wonder if there’s a trait around clannishness and ability to self-organize into strict hierarchies and obedience to a (clan’s) ‘greater good’? Americans by and large are direct and straight forward and independent; Indians tend to be more politically-savvy and work through other people and ally-building and behind-closed-door-alignments and much quid-pro-quo. The issue with these Big 5 traits is that they completely neglect the societal aspect.

    Sure, extraversion can be taken as an indication of how outgoing and social one is (and how one draws energy from being around other people), but its still an individualistic trait and doesn’t capture clannishness, or how strongly one seeks to belong to a hierarchy and ‘needs’ a reference index is one’s own pecking order. This is the ability to quick self-organize into clans and forms hierarchies and follow orders for the ‘greater good’ of the clan.

    The clan >> The self >> The rest.

  157. Chinese tend to be extremely aggressive, more so than Indians, to the degree that their naked ambition is often off putting.

    The Chinese are socially insular and reclusive. They often hesitate to speak up and come across as very secretive. So their ambition is harder to detect. They sort of come across as quiet and unassuming.

    The Koreans are much milder and nicer

    My experience has been different. Koreans seem very abrasive.

    Americans by and large are direct and straight forward and independent

    I agree.

    Indians tend to be more politically-savvy and work through other people and ally-building and behind-closed-door-alignments and much quid-pro-quo.

    clannishness, or how strongly one seeks to belong to a hierarchy and ‘needs’ a reference index is one’s own pecking order. This is the ability to quick self-organize into clans and forms hierarchies and follow orders for the ‘greater good’ of the clan.

    Indians have strong ethnic networks (caste, language, religion), which is how they take over IT/software departments and companies. Whites have no ethnic solidarity and therefore at a huge disadvantage.

    I think East Asians have a certain ethnic solidarity too, but it’s more of an isolationist type of solidarity. Lots of Chinese, for example, acquire American IP and take it back to their homelands and start companies that only employ their co-ethnics. However, they typically don’t takeover IT/software departments in Western nations.

    Indians have a lot of verbosity and chutzpah (in addition to strong ethnic networks), so they’re well positioned to succeed in corporate politicking. East Asians lack verbosity, so they don’t become senior managers or executives. However, East Asians are adept at building functional large-scale institutions (which the more clannish Indians are too fractitious for), so their homelands are good places to do business. So East Asians, in some cases, just take whatever they learn in Corporate America and return to their homeland to start an independent venture.

    According to one estimate, Chinese acquire $400 billion in IP per year.

    Suffice it say, Americans are getting screwed.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    My experience has been different. Koreans seem very abrasive.
     
    https://youtu.be/SoMyeR-RwEE?t=123
  158. @Malla
    @JohnnyWalker123


    In Canada, the Sikh population has done very well in politics.
     
    Sikhs have been numerous in Canada much longer than Tamils. Indeed going to Canada has been a dream of many a people from the Punjab (where most Sikhs are found) for decades now. Canada was a hotbed of Sikh Khalistani separatists (wanted independence from India for a Khalistan nation) and hence the Indian external security agency RAW (Research and Analysis Wing, India's CIA/KGB/MI6) was very active in Canada trying to discredit them.

    I see. So would a smart untouchable behave and talk like a Brahmin?
     
    Maybe but there is something about Brahmins which set them apart in my opinion and experience. Exceptionally high verbal IQ.

    Aren’t the Gurkhas the best fighters in India?
     
    Very true. A Gurkha from Nepal (there are Indian Gurkhas too) can enlist in the Nepali Army, Indian Army or the British Army.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Maybe but there is something about Brahmins which set them apart in my opinion and experience. Exceptionally high verbal IQ.

    The Brahmins had to read, understand, and explain the religious texts. So their culture and genetics have evolved toward verbal sophistry. That might be the best explanation.

    Which Indian caste/language groups are the best at working with their hands? There must be castes who assembled products and sold them.

    The interesting thing is this. You see Indians who are good talkers. You see some Indians who are good (or at least average) at science, math, and technology (like Ramanujan).

    You don’t see much ability to work with hands.

    India seems to manufacture and export very little. Even with the really low cost of labor, they don’t do manufacturing and export. They do coding and English call center services, but they can’t build anything. Even Bangladesh, which strongly encourages manufacturing and exports, is very poor at this. Indians seem to have very poor/underdeveloped ability to work with their hands.

    Is this something due to the caste system or is it genetic? Maybe Indians view working with their hands to be below them, but they like to study books. So they produce lots of IT graduates, but they disdain manual labor too much. So only the lowest people work with their hands.

    I don’t know if anything I’m saying is true here, but it’s a hypothesis.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    India seems to manufacture and export very little. Even with the really low cost of labor, they don’t do manufacturing and export.
     
    India has a long history of autarky and its workforce is in general poorly educated and trained, so Indian industry is not competitive with the likes of Japanese, Koreans, and Taiwanese who have competed globally for the past several decades. But that could change.

    It's possible there is something genetic - high mechanical aptitude necessary for designing and building things requires high visuospatial IQ, which East Asians possess, but Indians do not.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Indians in India and East Asians in East Asia are very different from their counterparts in the U.S. Indian immigration to the U.S. is EXTREMELY selective cognitively and educationally. Over 70% of Indians in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. 15% in India). Meanwhile something like 50% of Koreans in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. about 55% in Korea).

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    , @Malla
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Which Indian caste/language groups are the best at working with their hands? There must be castes who assembled products and sold them.
     
    Many lower castes, actually their castes are named after their traditional profession. There are chamars (leatherworkers), sonars (blacksmiths) etc....

    Even with the really low cost of labor, they don’t do manufacturing and export.
     
    There is some export of manufactured products but nothing compared to say China. Indian labour productivity is very small so even if cheap they end up expensive in the long run.

    Is this something due to the caste system or is it genetic? Maybe Indians view working with their hands to be below them, but they like to study books. So they produce lots of IT graduates, but they disdain manual labor too much.
     
    But most people have to work with their hands to survive in India. Disgrace for those who worked with their hands is a upper caste thing but even lower caste guys would pick up this attitude once they have wealth and status.
    Maybe genetic up to an extent, I cannot say.
    Some of the most latest Westernized youth do not share these tendencies. After all they are westernized.
  159. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie

    Could you explain what you see as the important cultural&behavioral differences between the Chinese and Koreans?

    Thank you.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    what you see as the important cultural&behavioral differences between the Chinese and Koreans?

    That would take a few books!

    Basically, I see a significant and notable difference in civic culture – China’s is roughly 20-25 years of economic development behind that of South Korea’s. And the former also suffers from the recent history of Maoist communism.

    Genetically – for whatever that is worth – the South Koreans are somewhat closer to the Japanese than they are to the Chinese.

    As far as immigrants from the two countries, the Koreans are going to be more assimilative (higher intermarriage rates with whites, higher military service rate, etc.) than the Chinese, because they tend to be far more Christian (the Koreans in America are 70-80% Christian while the Chinese in America are about 30-35%) and because they don’t come from a “world-historical” culture that has a strong pull (which manifests in things like higher English monolingualism, i.e. the Koreans born in America are far more likely to speak only English than the Chinese born in America, more of who retain the ability to speak their parental tongue).

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie


    As far as immigrants from the two countries, the Koreans are going to be more assimilative (higher intermarriage rates with whites, higher military service rate, etc.) than the Chinese, because they tend to be far more Christian (the Koreans in America are 70-80% Christian while the Chinese in America are about 30-35%) and because they don’t come from a “world-historical” culture that has a strong pull (which manifests in things like higher English monolingualism, i.e. the Koreans born in America are far more likely to speak only English than the Chinese born in America, more of who retain the ability to speak their parental tongue).

     

    Yeah, I think the influence of Christianity is one huge difference.

    The other difference (which you've mentioned on many occasions) is that Koreans have a more martial/military culture to them. They've got a lot of "fight." They also tend to do well (at least by Asian standards) in sports. There's a lot of brawling too, both in bars and political rallies. The Korean military is infamous for the type of hazing that happens.

    On the other hand, you also have the whole "K Pop" culture too. So lots of young Korean men are soft and effete, obsessed with skin care and makeup. There's definitely a culture of vanity among both the men and women. Maybe all the South Koreans in SoCal were somehow a vector for that "LA Looks" culture to enter South Korea.

    Some of the Chinese (especially the wealthy people of Singapore, HK, and large cities like Shanghai) are vain, there's not much of a martial/sports/riot culture. They're fight or athletically compete if forced, but it's not something that they have innate interest in.

    According to one person I talked to, it's the kimchi that gives Koreans their hot-headed nature.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  160. @JohnnyWalker123

    Chinese tend to be extremely aggressive, more so than Indians, to the degree that their naked ambition is often off putting.
     
    The Chinese are socially insular and reclusive. They often hesitate to speak up and come across as very secretive. So their ambition is harder to detect. They sort of come across as quiet and unassuming.

    The Koreans are much milder and nicer

     

    My experience has been different. Koreans seem very abrasive.

    Americans by and large are direct and straight forward and independent
     
    I agree.

    Indians tend to be more politically-savvy and work through other people and ally-building and behind-closed-door-alignments and much quid-pro-quo.
     

    clannishness, or how strongly one seeks to belong to a hierarchy and ‘needs’ a reference index is one’s own pecking order. This is the ability to quick self-organize into clans and forms hierarchies and follow orders for the ‘greater good’ of the clan.
     
    Indians have strong ethnic networks (caste, language, religion), which is how they take over IT/software departments and companies. Whites have no ethnic solidarity and therefore at a huge disadvantage.

    I think East Asians have a certain ethnic solidarity too, but it's more of an isolationist type of solidarity. Lots of Chinese, for example, acquire American IP and take it back to their homelands and start companies that only employ their co-ethnics. However, they typically don't takeover IT/software departments in Western nations.

    Indians have a lot of verbosity and chutzpah (in addition to strong ethnic networks), so they're well positioned to succeed in corporate politicking. East Asians lack verbosity, so they don't become senior managers or executives. However, East Asians are adept at building functional large-scale institutions (which the more clannish Indians are too fractitious for), so their homelands are good places to do business. So East Asians, in some cases, just take whatever they learn in Corporate America and return to their homeland to start an independent venture.

    According to one estimate, Chinese acquire $400 billion in IP per year.

    Suffice it say, Americans are getting screwed.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    My experience has been different. Koreans seem very abrasive.

    https://youtu.be/SoMyeR-RwEE?t=123

    • LOL: JohnnyWalker123
  161. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Malla


    Maybe but there is something about Brahmins which set them apart in my opinion and experience. Exceptionally high verbal IQ.

     

    The Brahmins had to read, understand, and explain the religious texts. So their culture and genetics have evolved toward verbal sophistry. That might be the best explanation.

    Which Indian caste/language groups are the best at working with their hands? There must be castes who assembled products and sold them.

    The interesting thing is this. You see Indians who are good talkers. You see some Indians who are good (or at least average) at science, math, and technology (like Ramanujan).

    You don't see much ability to work with hands.

    India seems to manufacture and export very little. Even with the really low cost of labor, they don't do manufacturing and export. They do coding and English call center services, but they can't build anything. Even Bangladesh, which strongly encourages manufacturing and exports, is very poor at this. Indians seem to have very poor/underdeveloped ability to work with their hands.

    Is this something due to the caste system or is it genetic? Maybe Indians view working with their hands to be below them, but they like to study books. So they produce lots of IT graduates, but they disdain manual labor too much. So only the lowest people work with their hands.

    I don't know if anything I'm saying is true here, but it's a hypothesis.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Malla

    India seems to manufacture and export very little. Even with the really low cost of labor, they don’t do manufacturing and export.

    India has a long history of autarky and its workforce is in general poorly educated and trained, so Indian industry is not competitive with the likes of Japanese, Koreans, and Taiwanese who have competed globally for the past several decades. But that could change.

    It’s possible there is something genetic – high mechanical aptitude necessary for designing and building things requires high visuospatial IQ, which East Asians possess, but Indians do not.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Indians in India and East Asians in East Asia are very different from their counterparts in the U.S. Indian immigration to the U.S. is EXTREMELY selective cognitively and educationally. Over 70% of Indians in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. 15% in India). Meanwhile something like 50% of Koreans in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. about 55% in Korea).

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie

    Good points.

    The Indian market has been closed for much longer than the East Asian markets. The Indian workforce (other than the top few percent of the population) is very poorly educated and malnourished.


    It’s possible there is something genetic – high mechanical aptitude necessary for designing and building things requires high visuospatial IQ, which East Asians possess, but Indians do not.

     

    I think there's something to this. East Asians have very high visuospatial IQ, which is necessary to succeed at manufacturing. Some people think is due to the complexity of the East Asian languages, but there are genetic explanations too.

    So that could explain why Asians tend to be excellent at manufacturing.

    In my personal opinion, the economy of the future will be highly dependent on robotics. Given their strong skills at engineering and manufacturing, the East Asians (including Koreans) will do very well and ascend to global economic dominance.

    White countries (other than maybe Germany) will not fare well.

    Indians (who are sometimes OK programmers but not manufacturing-oriented) will not fare well.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Indians in India and East Asians in East Asia are very different from their counterparts in the U.S. Indian immigration to the U.S. is EXTREMELY selective cognitively and educationally. Over 70% of Indians in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. 15% in India). Meanwhile something like 50% of Koreans in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. about 55% in Korea).

     

    Yeah, I think the skewed nature of Indian migration creates an inflated view of Indian abilities. More realistically, a huge fraction of the Indian population is malnourished and semi-literate, with only a tiny fraction capable of competing in a global economy.

    So there may be smart and educated people there, but the economy is too small for there to be many opportunities there. The economy is small because the overwhelming majority are incapable of producing or monetarily consuming much. So lots of them immigrate abroad, especially to the U.S.

    One similarity between Asians and Indians is that both groups come from highly competitive environments in which people have to adopt a "Tiger Mother" culture to survive. That culture places a huge emphasis on education, upward mobility, competitiveness, and high-presssure/high-investment parenting. Since Indians share that culture with Asians, comparisons are often drawn between the groups.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  162. @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    what you see as the important cultural&behavioral differences between the Chinese and Koreans?
     
    That would take a few books!

    Basically, I see a significant and notable difference in civic culture - China's is roughly 20-25 years of economic development behind that of South Korea's. And the former also suffers from the recent history of Maoist communism.

    Genetically - for whatever that is worth - the South Koreans are somewhat closer to the Japanese than they are to the Chinese.

    As far as immigrants from the two countries, the Koreans are going to be more assimilative (higher intermarriage rates with whites, higher military service rate, etc.) than the Chinese, because they tend to be far more Christian (the Koreans in America are 70-80% Christian while the Chinese in America are about 30-35%) and because they don't come from a "world-historical" culture that has a strong pull (which manifests in things like higher English monolingualism, i.e. the Koreans born in America are far more likely to speak only English than the Chinese born in America, more of who retain the ability to speak their parental tongue).

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    As far as immigrants from the two countries, the Koreans are going to be more assimilative (higher intermarriage rates with whites, higher military service rate, etc.) than the Chinese, because they tend to be far more Christian (the Koreans in America are 70-80% Christian while the Chinese in America are about 30-35%) and because they don’t come from a “world-historical” culture that has a strong pull (which manifests in things like higher English monolingualism, i.e. the Koreans born in America are far more likely to speak only English than the Chinese born in America, more of who retain the ability to speak their parental tongue).

    Yeah, I think the influence of Christianity is one huge difference.

    The other difference (which you’ve mentioned on many occasions) is that Koreans have a more martial/military culture to them. They’ve got a lot of “fight.” They also tend to do well (at least by Asian standards) in sports. There’s a lot of brawling too, both in bars and political rallies. The Korean military is infamous for the type of hazing that happens.

    On the other hand, you also have the whole “K Pop” culture too. So lots of young Korean men are soft and effete, obsessed with skin care and makeup. There’s definitely a culture of vanity among both the men and women. Maybe all the South Koreans in SoCal were somehow a vector for that “LA Looks” culture to enter South Korea.

    Some of the Chinese (especially the wealthy people of Singapore, HK, and large cities like Shanghai) are vain, there’s not much of a martial/sports/riot culture. They’re fight or athletically compete if forced, but it’s not something that they have innate interest in.

    According to one person I talked to, it’s the kimchi that gives Koreans their hot-headed nature.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Koreans have a more martial/military culture to them. They’ve got a lot of “fight.” They also tend to do well (at least by Asian standards) in sports. There’s a lot of brawling too, both in bars and political rallies. The Korean military is infamous for the type of hazing that happens.
     
    P.J. O'Rourke, after visiting South Korea, wrote of the Koreans, "They don't like anyone who isn't Korean, and they don't like each other all that much, either. They're hardheaded, hard-drinking, tough little bastards, 'the Irish of Asia'."

    A lot of "martial culture" in South Korea (or in North Korea) was constructed intentionally after the humiliation of the Japanese occupation and the Korean War. During the Korean War, poorly-trained, -equiped, and -led South Korean conscript peasants were notorious for breaking and fleeing on contact with the more disciplined and better-led North Koreans and Chinese "volunteer" troops (though, of course, there were also numerous examples of extreme heroism such as young cadets donning satchel charges and ramming themselves into North Korean tanks). After the war, the military dictatorship in Korea put a great deal of emphasis on physical and martial training among young Koreans (mandating martial arts and military discipline/courtesy/training in physical education classes starting in elementary school and even in kindergarten). It became a "garrison state" (as was, say, the State of Israel) and produced people who were tough, resilient, and combative, the result of which manifested decades later when the South Koreans sent troops to aid the United States in the Vietnam War (where they became legendary for their ability to ambush the Viet Cong in its own territory and inflict a 20-to-1 kill ratio and to pacifiy their areas of control, sometimes with extreme brutality).

    You are right though that today this garrison state mentality is abating and Koreans are becoming very "metro," though the post-war spirit of toughness still lingers. See:

    https://youtu.be/XmgNe7EK-ww

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

  163. @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    India seems to manufacture and export very little. Even with the really low cost of labor, they don’t do manufacturing and export.
     
    India has a long history of autarky and its workforce is in general poorly educated and trained, so Indian industry is not competitive with the likes of Japanese, Koreans, and Taiwanese who have competed globally for the past several decades. But that could change.

    It's possible there is something genetic - high mechanical aptitude necessary for designing and building things requires high visuospatial IQ, which East Asians possess, but Indians do not.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Indians in India and East Asians in East Asia are very different from their counterparts in the U.S. Indian immigration to the U.S. is EXTREMELY selective cognitively and educationally. Over 70% of Indians in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. 15% in India). Meanwhile something like 50% of Koreans in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. about 55% in Korea).

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Good points.

    The Indian market has been closed for much longer than the East Asian markets. The Indian workforce (other than the top few percent of the population) is very poorly educated and malnourished.

    It’s possible there is something genetic – high mechanical aptitude necessary for designing and building things requires high visuospatial IQ, which East Asians possess, but Indians do not.

    I think there’s something to this. East Asians have very high visuospatial IQ, which is necessary to succeed at manufacturing. Some people think is due to the complexity of the East Asian languages, but there are genetic explanations too.

    So that could explain why Asians tend to be excellent at manufacturing.

    In my personal opinion, the economy of the future will be highly dependent on robotics. Given their strong skills at engineering and manufacturing, the East Asians (including Koreans) will do very well and ascend to global economic dominance.

    White countries (other than maybe Germany) will not fare well.

    Indians (who are sometimes OK programmers but not manufacturing-oriented) will not fare well.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Indians in India and East Asians in East Asia are very different from their counterparts in the U.S. Indian immigration to the U.S. is EXTREMELY selective cognitively and educationally. Over 70% of Indians in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. 15% in India). Meanwhile something like 50% of Koreans in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. about 55% in Korea).

    Yeah, I think the skewed nature of Indian migration creates an inflated view of Indian abilities. More realistically, a huge fraction of the Indian population is malnourished and semi-literate, with only a tiny fraction capable of competing in a global economy.

    So there may be smart and educated people there, but the economy is too small for there to be many opportunities there. The economy is small because the overwhelming majority are incapable of producing or monetarily consuming much. So lots of them immigrate abroad, especially to the U.S.

    One similarity between Asians and Indians is that both groups come from highly competitive environments in which people have to adopt a “Tiger Mother” culture to survive. That culture places a huge emphasis on education, upward mobility, competitiveness, and high-presssure/high-investment parenting. Since Indians share that culture with Asians, comparisons are often drawn between the groups.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    One similarity between Asians and Indians is that both groups come from highly competitive environments in which people have to adopt a “Tiger Mother” culture to survive. That culture places a huge emphasis on education, upward mobility, competitiveness, and high-presssure/high-investment parenting. Since Indians share that culture with Asians, comparisons are often drawn between the groups.
     
    I'd say elite, or more accurately, aspiring upper middle class Indians share this with East Asians. This Tiger Mothering culture is much more pervasive among all classes of East Asians. Lower class Indians are not all that into "high-investment parenting."

    By the way, East Asian tiger parenting is not all about making demands of one's children. East Asian parents, especially Korean ones, tend to lead by example and make enormous sacrifices for their children, often working themselves to death in order to give their children resources to invest into their future.
  164. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie


    As far as immigrants from the two countries, the Koreans are going to be more assimilative (higher intermarriage rates with whites, higher military service rate, etc.) than the Chinese, because they tend to be far more Christian (the Koreans in America are 70-80% Christian while the Chinese in America are about 30-35%) and because they don’t come from a “world-historical” culture that has a strong pull (which manifests in things like higher English monolingualism, i.e. the Koreans born in America are far more likely to speak only English than the Chinese born in America, more of who retain the ability to speak their parental tongue).

     

    Yeah, I think the influence of Christianity is one huge difference.

    The other difference (which you've mentioned on many occasions) is that Koreans have a more martial/military culture to them. They've got a lot of "fight." They also tend to do well (at least by Asian standards) in sports. There's a lot of brawling too, both in bars and political rallies. The Korean military is infamous for the type of hazing that happens.

    On the other hand, you also have the whole "K Pop" culture too. So lots of young Korean men are soft and effete, obsessed with skin care and makeup. There's definitely a culture of vanity among both the men and women. Maybe all the South Koreans in SoCal were somehow a vector for that "LA Looks" culture to enter South Korea.

    Some of the Chinese (especially the wealthy people of Singapore, HK, and large cities like Shanghai) are vain, there's not much of a martial/sports/riot culture. They're fight or athletically compete if forced, but it's not something that they have innate interest in.

    According to one person I talked to, it's the kimchi that gives Koreans their hot-headed nature.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Koreans have a more martial/military culture to them. They’ve got a lot of “fight.” They also tend to do well (at least by Asian standards) in sports. There’s a lot of brawling too, both in bars and political rallies. The Korean military is infamous for the type of hazing that happens.

    P.J. O’Rourke, after visiting South Korea, wrote of the Koreans, “They don’t like anyone who isn’t Korean, and they don’t like each other all that much, either. They’re hardheaded, hard-drinking, tough little bastards, ‘the Irish of Asia’.”

    A lot of “martial culture” in South Korea (or in North Korea) was constructed intentionally after the humiliation of the Japanese occupation and the Korean War. During the Korean War, poorly-trained, -equiped, and -led South Korean conscript peasants were notorious for breaking and fleeing on contact with the more disciplined and better-led North Koreans and Chinese “volunteer” troops (though, of course, there were also numerous examples of extreme heroism such as young cadets donning satchel charges and ramming themselves into North Korean tanks). After the war, the military dictatorship in Korea put a great deal of emphasis on physical and martial training among young Koreans (mandating martial arts and military discipline/courtesy/training in physical education classes starting in elementary school and even in kindergarten). It became a “garrison state” (as was, say, the State of Israel) and produced people who were tough, resilient, and combative, the result of which manifested decades later when the South Koreans sent troops to aid the United States in the Vietnam War (where they became legendary for their ability to ambush the Viet Cong in its own territory and inflict a 20-to-1 kill ratio and to pacifiy their areas of control, sometimes with extreme brutality).

    You are right though that today this garrison state mentality is abating and Koreans are becoming very “metro,” though the post-war spirit of toughness still lingers. See:

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Twinkie


    It became a “garrison state” (as was, say, the State of Israel) and produced people who were tough, resilient, and combative, the result of which manifested decades later when the South Koreans sent troops to aid the United States in the Vietnam War (where they became legendary for their ability to ambush the Viet Cong in its own territory and inflict a 20-to-1 kill ratio and to pacifiy their areas of control, sometimes with extreme brutality).
     
    I wouldn't call it extreme brutality. They used a watered-down version of the rules of engagement that have been around pretty much since the first tribal chief put down a mutiny/revolt in his domain. It was not particularly harsh compared to Vietcong ROE's, which did not have an issue with slaughtering entire families.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Nguy%E1%BB%85n_V%C4%83n_L%C3%A9m#Execution
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF
  165. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie

    Good points.

    The Indian market has been closed for much longer than the East Asian markets. The Indian workforce (other than the top few percent of the population) is very poorly educated and malnourished.


    It’s possible there is something genetic – high mechanical aptitude necessary for designing and building things requires high visuospatial IQ, which East Asians possess, but Indians do not.

     

    I think there's something to this. East Asians have very high visuospatial IQ, which is necessary to succeed at manufacturing. Some people think is due to the complexity of the East Asian languages, but there are genetic explanations too.

    So that could explain why Asians tend to be excellent at manufacturing.

    In my personal opinion, the economy of the future will be highly dependent on robotics. Given their strong skills at engineering and manufacturing, the East Asians (including Koreans) will do very well and ascend to global economic dominance.

    White countries (other than maybe Germany) will not fare well.

    Indians (who are sometimes OK programmers but not manufacturing-oriented) will not fare well.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Indians in India and East Asians in East Asia are very different from their counterparts in the U.S. Indian immigration to the U.S. is EXTREMELY selective cognitively and educationally. Over 70% of Indians in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. 15% in India). Meanwhile something like 50% of Koreans in the U.S. have college degrees (vs. about 55% in Korea).

     

    Yeah, I think the skewed nature of Indian migration creates an inflated view of Indian abilities. More realistically, a huge fraction of the Indian population is malnourished and semi-literate, with only a tiny fraction capable of competing in a global economy.

    So there may be smart and educated people there, but the economy is too small for there to be many opportunities there. The economy is small because the overwhelming majority are incapable of producing or monetarily consuming much. So lots of them immigrate abroad, especially to the U.S.

    One similarity between Asians and Indians is that both groups come from highly competitive environments in which people have to adopt a "Tiger Mother" culture to survive. That culture places a huge emphasis on education, upward mobility, competitiveness, and high-presssure/high-investment parenting. Since Indians share that culture with Asians, comparisons are often drawn between the groups.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    One similarity between Asians and Indians is that both groups come from highly competitive environments in which people have to adopt a “Tiger Mother” culture to survive. That culture places a huge emphasis on education, upward mobility, competitiveness, and high-presssure/high-investment parenting. Since Indians share that culture with Asians, comparisons are often drawn between the groups.

    I’d say elite, or more accurately, aspiring upper middle class Indians share this with East Asians. This Tiger Mothering culture is much more pervasive among all classes of East Asians. Lower class Indians are not all that into “high-investment parenting.”

    By the way, East Asian tiger parenting is not all about making demands of one’s children. East Asian parents, especially Korean ones, tend to lead by example and make enormous sacrifices for their children, often working themselves to death in order to give their children resources to invest into their future.

  166. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Malla


    Maybe but there is something about Brahmins which set them apart in my opinion and experience. Exceptionally high verbal IQ.

     

    The Brahmins had to read, understand, and explain the religious texts. So their culture and genetics have evolved toward verbal sophistry. That might be the best explanation.

    Which Indian caste/language groups are the best at working with their hands? There must be castes who assembled products and sold them.

    The interesting thing is this. You see Indians who are good talkers. You see some Indians who are good (or at least average) at science, math, and technology (like Ramanujan).

    You don't see much ability to work with hands.

    India seems to manufacture and export very little. Even with the really low cost of labor, they don't do manufacturing and export. They do coding and English call center services, but they can't build anything. Even Bangladesh, which strongly encourages manufacturing and exports, is very poor at this. Indians seem to have very poor/underdeveloped ability to work with their hands.

    Is this something due to the caste system or is it genetic? Maybe Indians view working with their hands to be below them, but they like to study books. So they produce lots of IT graduates, but they disdain manual labor too much. So only the lowest people work with their hands.

    I don't know if anything I'm saying is true here, but it's a hypothesis.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Malla

    Which Indian caste/language groups are the best at working with their hands? There must be castes who assembled products and sold them.

    Many lower castes, actually their castes are named after their traditional profession. There are chamars (leatherworkers), sonars (blacksmiths) etc….

    Even with the really low cost of labor, they don’t do manufacturing and export.

    There is some export of manufactured products but nothing compared to say China. Indian labour productivity is very small so even if cheap they end up expensive in the long run.

    Is this something due to the caste system or is it genetic? Maybe Indians view working with their hands to be below them, but they like to study books. So they produce lots of IT graduates, but they disdain manual labor too much.

    But most people have to work with their hands to survive in India. Disgrace for those who worked with their hands is a upper caste thing but even lower caste guys would pick up this attitude once they have wealth and status.
    Maybe genetic up to an extent, I cannot say.
    Some of the most latest Westernized youth do not share these tendencies. After all they are westernized.

  167. @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Koreans have a more martial/military culture to them. They’ve got a lot of “fight.” They also tend to do well (at least by Asian standards) in sports. There’s a lot of brawling too, both in bars and political rallies. The Korean military is infamous for the type of hazing that happens.
     
    P.J. O'Rourke, after visiting South Korea, wrote of the Koreans, "They don't like anyone who isn't Korean, and they don't like each other all that much, either. They're hardheaded, hard-drinking, tough little bastards, 'the Irish of Asia'."

    A lot of "martial culture" in South Korea (or in North Korea) was constructed intentionally after the humiliation of the Japanese occupation and the Korean War. During the Korean War, poorly-trained, -equiped, and -led South Korean conscript peasants were notorious for breaking and fleeing on contact with the more disciplined and better-led North Koreans and Chinese "volunteer" troops (though, of course, there were also numerous examples of extreme heroism such as young cadets donning satchel charges and ramming themselves into North Korean tanks). After the war, the military dictatorship in Korea put a great deal of emphasis on physical and martial training among young Koreans (mandating martial arts and military discipline/courtesy/training in physical education classes starting in elementary school and even in kindergarten). It became a "garrison state" (as was, say, the State of Israel) and produced people who were tough, resilient, and combative, the result of which manifested decades later when the South Koreans sent troops to aid the United States in the Vietnam War (where they became legendary for their ability to ambush the Viet Cong in its own territory and inflict a 20-to-1 kill ratio and to pacifiy their areas of control, sometimes with extreme brutality).

    You are right though that today this garrison state mentality is abating and Koreans are becoming very "metro," though the post-war spirit of toughness still lingers. See:

    https://youtu.be/XmgNe7EK-ww

    Replies: @Johann Ricke

    It became a “garrison state” (as was, say, the State of Israel) and produced people who were tough, resilient, and combative, the result of which manifested decades later when the South Koreans sent troops to aid the United States in the Vietnam War (where they became legendary for their ability to ambush the Viet Cong in its own territory and inflict a 20-to-1 kill ratio and to pacifiy their areas of control, sometimes with extreme brutality).

    I wouldn’t call it extreme brutality. They used a watered-down version of the rules of engagement that have been around pretty much since the first tribal chief put down a mutiny/revolt in his domain. It was not particularly harsh compared to Vietcong ROE’s, which did not have an issue with slaughtering entire families.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Nguy%E1%BB%85n_V%C4%83n_L%C3%A9m#Execution
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF

  168. @Steve Sailer
    @J.Ross

    And yet Microsoft continues to make bundles of bucks instead of going the way of Xerox and Polaroid.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @82-IQ H1B Indian, @Anonymous, @Lot, @Anon87

    To be fair, without Xerox there is no Microsoft. MS will be in the position of Xerox eventually. Might be another decade or so, but they are already beginning the descent into the death spiral.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon87

    But they've sure made a lot of money for longer than I expected.

    Replies: @Anon87

  169. @Anon87
    @Steve Sailer

    To be fair, without Xerox there is no Microsoft. MS will be in the position of Xerox eventually. Might be another decade or so, but they are already beginning the descent into the death spiral.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    But they’ve sure made a lot of money for longer than I expected.

    • Replies: @Anon87
    @Steve Sailer

    True.

    No real competition helps, especially in the business sector. Artists still prefer Mac, hardcore engineers always prefer UNIX, but everyone else in the office deals with Windows. Gamers probably will help to put off the death of Windows as well.

  170. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon87

    But they've sure made a lot of money for longer than I expected.

    Replies: @Anon87

    True.

    No real competition helps, especially in the business sector. Artists still prefer Mac, hardcore engineers always prefer UNIX, but everyone else in the office deals with Windows. Gamers probably will help to put off the death of Windows as well.

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