The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Caldwell: the Weirdly Parallel Childhoods of Houellebecq and Obama
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From Commentary:

A Bellow from France
by Christopher Caldwell

… The Elementary Particles is a veiled autobiography, and a frontal attack on the culture of the 1960s. To understand the centrality of that decade to Houellebecq’s worldview, it helps to know something about his childhood, which resembles that of no public figure so much as that of Barack Obama. He was born on Reunion Island, in the middle of the Indian Ocean, in 1956. His mother was a progressive doctor afflicted with wanderlust. Much like Obama’s mother, who wrote ethnological studies of the smithies of Indonesia for the Ford Foundation, Mrs. Houellebecq shipped her son back home to be raised by more traditional grandparents, while she went off to save the (Third) World. Houellebecq in traditionalist France, like Obama in hokey Hawaii, seems to have held out hope that the absent progressive parent was doing something of relevance to him, that his archaic upbringing was somehow linked to his mother’s modernizing adventure, even if the two seemed to be in contradiction. Each boy wanted to believe that no one was “relegating” or “abandoning” him to anything. The hidden system behind their upbringing would reveal its wholeness in the end, in a union of the nomadic and the sedentary. When that didn’t happen, each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side, Houellebecq against the progressive/cosmopolitan side—though each remained fluent and comfortable enough in the other idiom to consort with, and “pass” among, those who still believed in it.

 
Hide 100 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. When the Red Chinese lose the amoral greedheads of the WSJ…

    https://t.co/nhUEa8cT2H?amp=1

    (I think this twitter-referral link avoids their paywall, it did for me)

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    The Mao Dynasty has lost The Mandate Of Heaven, all that is united must divide!
  2. Mrs. Houellebecq shipped her son back home to be raised by more traditional grandparents, while she went off to save the (Third) World.

    Wikipedia says it this way:

    In a lengthy autobiographical article published on his website (now defunct), he states that his parents “lost interest in [his] existence pretty quickly”, and at the age of six, he was sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.

    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world. We have a moral obligation to the offspring. It’s not just their “free choice”.

    • Replies: @a reader

    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world.
     
    Anyway, children may still reserve surprises to their parents.
    , @Jake
    That sounds great, and it is exactly what Hillary wants. And so does Bloomberg. And Obama. Etc

    Are you a Lefty or just rather dull?
    , @Thea
    You’d prefer a world without Houllebecq then. Lots of fascinating, talented people had incompetent parents.
    , @Almost Missouri


    sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.
     

     
    Yeah, while I was reading Caldwell's version, I suspected that what Caldwell was calling "traditional/provincial" was only so by comparison to the radically irresponsible mothers.

    OTOH, I seem to recall that Obama's grandparents were also some kind of stealth Commies, so maybe the parallel still holds, even if Caldwell's concept of "traditional/provincial" is way to the left of reality's median.

    BTW, these "traditional/provincial" grandparents remind me a bit of Charles Murray's Talk-1960s-But-Live-1950s schtick. I have some people in my extended family like that. It may have worked okay for them: they get to virtue signal as champagne socialists while enjoying the benefits of a stable bourgeois environment, but it doesn't always go so well for the offspring, who, young and impressionable as the are, don't perceive their parents' gross hypocrisy and mistakenly take them at their word on all their professed opinions as guidance in their own lives. Tragedies generally result. Of course, one of the tragedies may yet become President or and epochal bestselling writer, but it seems that for every one of those, there are a thousand human trainwrecks, so my money is on the trainwrecks staying trainwrecked. And, if you consider that the larger effect of the President was on balance baleful, even the "successes" are illusory.
    , @njguy73
    Maybe Child Protective Services needs to have its jurisdiction extended to potential children.
  3. What is French for “Bill Ayres”, or “Jeremiah Wright”, or “Rod Blagojevich”, or “Larry Sinclair”?

  4. I do not see any relation between the two, other than they both became self-serving narcissists with abandonment issues with mommy.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Houellebecq writes his own books, that's a big difference.
  5. This is why the Onion and the Bee have no traction anymore.

    • LOL: Kronos
    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    Juxtapose the WP's motto -Democracy Dies In Darkness - with the headline advocating for further enhancement of elite control over governance. Now that there is hypocrisy on steroids. The WP is very fond of Darkness, Democracy not so much. But this should come as no surprise, given that the WP is and has been the Voice of the Deep State for a long, long time. I give you David Ignatius, leaker extraordinaire for the CIA, case closed.
  6. I gladly and proudly voted for Obama in 2008 to prevent war with Russia and Iran.

    • Replies: @anon

    I gladly and proudly voted for Obama in 2008 to prevent war with Russia and Iran.
     
    You were a idiot. Obama has always been a war candidate, and it was no surprise that he attkhed Syria, Lybia, and Ukraine after he was elected, killing over 1 million people (increased mortality rates).
    You voted for war crimes - typcial progressive.
    , @Kronos
    https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Osama-Bin-Laden-ebook/dp/B011G4DOEM

    This is an interesting read. Especially on Syria and Libya. The book covers other geo-strategic issues besides the Bin Laden raid. The book also chronicles US weapon smuggling through Turkey for Syrian “moderate rebels” known as the infamous “Rat Line.”

    -Sort’ve like a Charlie Wilson thing but after the Cold War.

    I supported Obama over McCain for that very reason. But we still had two Middle East wars regardless.

    , @MBB
    Ironic now that the Dems have gone full bonkers anti-Russia. I wonder what Obama would say about that if he could tell the truth.
  7. So, the mothers were both essentially hollaback girls? This sh** really is B-A-N-A-N-A-S.

  8. The only connection is- they both have psychos with world-savior complex for mothers.

    • Replies: @vinteuil

    The only connection is- they both have psychos with world-savior complex for mothers.
     
    Ummm...that's quite a connection, no?
  9. @RichardTaylor

    Mrs. Houellebecq shipped her son back home to be raised by more traditional grandparents, while she went off to save the (Third) World.
     
    Wikipedia says it this way:

    In a lengthy autobiographical article published on his website (now defunct), he states that his parents "lost interest in [his] existence pretty quickly", and at the age of six, he was sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.
     
    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world. We have a moral obligation to the offspring. It's not just their "free choice".

    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world.

    Anyway, children may still reserve surprises to their parents.

    • LOL: RichardTaylor
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Tennessee’s Sexually Oriented Business Licensing Board.
     
    WTF?

    her fiancé Chuck Pankow
     
    Any relation to James of Chicago, who also can blow up a storm, albeit in a different sense?

    Potential titles:

    You're My Inspiration
    Look Away
    Make Me Smile


    38 or 24 to 36
    Does Anybody Really Know What Climax Is?
    Questions 67, 68, and 69


    Saturday in the Park
    , @Barnard
    This daughter of Spielberg's is an adopted NAM. The article I read says she is engaged to a redneck professional dart player. That has got to be the bigger scandal in the Spielberg home.
  10. My 3 year old son cries every time my wife leaves for work in the morning. Separation anxiety is very real at that age. Imagine mommy leaving you for months and years at a time.

    • Replies: @utu
    "Imagine mommy leaving you for months and years at a time." - You get people who built British Empire.
    , @Alden
    I remember when I was 12 and my sisters about 5 and 3. She’d go off for 2 hours every Saturday morning for grocery shopping and errands. They’d cry and cry loudly for about 10 minutes every time. Then go back to happily playing. I thought it was strange.
  11. @Hhsiii
    My 3 year old son cries every time my wife leaves for work in the morning. Separation anxiety is very real at that age. Imagine mommy leaving you for months and years at a time.

    “Imagine mommy leaving you for months and years at a time.” – You get people who built British Empire.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    Ha, yeah I thought of that, too. Evidently Presidents and novelists as well.

    And a surfeit of nances, ponces an Tom Brown’s School Days, but nobody’s perfect.

  12. So, was Houellebecq’s mom also a…, how to put it in polite language, a “coal burner”?

    It seems it is common for artists to have “slut” moms who abandon or semi-abandon them. Tarantino (I don’t like his films, but I suppose he has a certain talent) was apparently another, and Truffaut’s mom too (he even made a film about it, he also born illegitimately and was sent to live with grandparents)

    Schopenhauer also seemed to have “mommy issues”, but I think it was a slightly different situation.

    Here an article about Houellebecq’s mom, she seems quite a character. Maybe some women really *shouldn’t* or weren’t meant to have children.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/the-mother-of-all-memoirs-1.1265758

    • Replies: @Emblematic
    John Lennon was abandoned by his mother and raised by his grandparents if I recall.
  13. each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side, Houellebecq against the progressive/cosmopolitan side—though each remained fluent and comfortable enough in the other idiom to consort with, and “pass” among, those who still believed in it.

    And yet Obama’s personal life, or at least the public depiction of it, seems pretty traditional: one marriage, no divorce, two kids, a relatively earnest striver making his way up the political ladder. He seems to have a decidedly practical, “no drama” bourgeois streak which he is comfortable indulging.

    Houellebecq, on the other hand, spent time as a young man in a mental hospital, has had a sexual life to rival those of his more dissolute characters, has been known to pass out drunk while being interviewed, invited various female journalists to join him and one of his earlier wives in a menage a trois, and is now, one can only hope, more settled and serene in his current marriage.

    Of course, Houellebecq is also by far the more interesting writer.

    • Replies: @SFG
    A lot of writers have had these tumultuous lives. Drifting from odd job to odd job is a horrible career plan but useful for a writer as you see many different types of people's experience of the world. As for the sex, well, people like to read about that.

    You wanna run for POTUS, well, that's a different story. And the US is much less forgiving of, say, maintaining a mistress than France.
    , @Art Deco
    And yet Obama’s personal life, or at least the public depiction of it, seems pretty traditional: one marriage, no divorce, two kids, a relatively earnest striver making his way up the political ladder. He seems to have a decidedly practical, “no drama” bourgeois streak which he is comfortable indulging.

    Both he and his sister have stayed out of the divorce courts. Both came from jumbled backgrounds, then married someone from a very distinct background (the same is true of Ted Cruz). His sister has also elected to stay put; she's spent about 30 of the last 35 years in Honolulu. Obama lived in just two cities between 1985 and 2016. An anthropologist once told me that 'conflict of adjacent generations' and 'congruence of alternate generation' is a common feature found in the study of cultures.
    , @Pheasant
    The clean living part of Obamas identity is just a dr huxtable role for the 21st century. In reality he is a very obvious secret gay most probably married to a transgender.
    , @Pheasant
    'has been known to pass out drunk while being interviewed, '

    I like him already.
  14. @Lot
    When the Red Chinese lose the amoral greedheads of the WSJ...

    https://t.co/nhUEa8cT2H?amp=1

    (I think this twitter-referral link avoids their paywall, it did for me)

    The Mao Dynasty has lost The Mandate Of Heaven, all that is united must divide!

  15. @petit bourgeois
    I do not see any relation between the two, other than they both became self-serving narcissists with abandonment issues with mommy.

    Houellebecq writes his own books, that’s a big difference.

    • LOL: Almost Missouri
  16. @black sea

    each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side, Houellebecq against the progressive/cosmopolitan side—though each remained fluent and comfortable enough in the other idiom to consort with, and “pass” among, those who still believed in it.
     
    And yet Obama's personal life, or at least the public depiction of it, seems pretty traditional: one marriage, no divorce, two kids, a relatively earnest striver making his way up the political ladder. He seems to have a decidedly practical, "no drama" bourgeois streak which he is comfortable indulging.

    Houellebecq, on the other hand, spent time as a young man in a mental hospital, has had a sexual life to rival those of his more dissolute characters, has been known to pass out drunk while being interviewed, invited various female journalists to join him and one of his earlier wives in a menage a trois, and is now, one can only hope, more settled and serene in his current marriage.

    Of course, Houellebecq is also by far the more interesting writer.

    A lot of writers have had these tumultuous lives. Drifting from odd job to odd job is a horrible career plan but useful for a writer as you see many different types of people’s experience of the world. As for the sex, well, people like to read about that.

    You wanna run for POTUS, well, that’s a different story. And the US is much less forgiving of, say, maintaining a mistress than France.

  17. Prince Philip’s upbringing was similar but worse. He was born in Greece and grew up in France, Germany, and Britain, raised mainly by British relatives.

    At age seven, he was living with his maternal grandmother and uncle. Soon his four sisters all married and moved to Germany with their German husbands, two of whom would fight for the Nazi’s. During his teens, one of Prince Philip’s sisters, her husband and two children died in an air crash. The next year his uncle, and guardian, died.

    Prince Philip’s father lived in Monte Carlo with a lady friend and his mother was placed in a Swiss asylum after being diagnosed with schizophrenia. After her release, his mother moved to Greece where she sheltered Jewish refugees during the war. After the war she founded a Greek Orthodox order of nuns.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    Family life among the high aristocracy rarely resembles what Americans think of as a traditional nuclear family. You might say it "takes a village" to raise a Prince Philip (or Charles, Andrew...) — a village made up of their extended family plus lots of hired help.
    , @Hibernian
    Wasn't the Greek royal house originally a branch of the Danish royal house, and put on the throne by the British?
  18. @RichardTaylor

    Mrs. Houellebecq shipped her son back home to be raised by more traditional grandparents, while she went off to save the (Third) World.
     
    Wikipedia says it this way:

    In a lengthy autobiographical article published on his website (now defunct), he states that his parents "lost interest in [his] existence pretty quickly", and at the age of six, he was sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.
     
    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world. We have a moral obligation to the offspring. It's not just their "free choice".

    That sounds great, and it is exactly what Hillary wants. And so does Bloomberg. And Obama. Etc

    Are you a Lefty or just rather dull?

    • Replies: @RichardTaylor

    That sounds great, and it is exactly what Hillary wants. And so does Bloomberg. And Obama. Etc
     
    Actually, social and legal controls over reproduction have been the norm in the history of European and other peoples. That's why a woman having a child out of wedlock was such a big deal. Parents used to play a larger role in marriages and would steer their daughters away from families that were "bad seed", i.e. a bunch of drunks or thieves. So no, making sure a child has decent genetics and a chance at a good environment isn't some "Lefty" preoccupation. Quite the opposite.
  19. @RichardTaylor

    Mrs. Houellebecq shipped her son back home to be raised by more traditional grandparents, while she went off to save the (Third) World.
     
    Wikipedia says it this way:

    In a lengthy autobiographical article published on his website (now defunct), he states that his parents "lost interest in [his] existence pretty quickly", and at the age of six, he was sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.
     
    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world. We have a moral obligation to the offspring. It's not just their "free choice".

    You’d prefer a world without Houllebecq then. Lots of fascinating, talented people had incompetent parents.

  20. @Triumph104
    Prince Philip's upbringing was similar but worse. He was born in Greece and grew up in France, Germany, and Britain, raised mainly by British relatives.

    At age seven, he was living with his maternal grandmother and uncle. Soon his four sisters all married and moved to Germany with their German husbands, two of whom would fight for the Nazi's. During his teens, one of Prince Philip's sisters, her husband and two children died in an air crash. The next year his uncle, and guardian, died.

    Prince Philip's father lived in Monte Carlo with a lady friend and his mother was placed in a Swiss asylum after being diagnosed with schizophrenia. After her release, his mother moved to Greece where she sheltered Jewish refugees during the war. After the war she founded a Greek Orthodox order of nuns.

    https://youtu.be/rnbM0cGUTAU

    Family life among the high aristocracy rarely resembles what Americans think of as a traditional nuclear family. You might say it “takes a village” to raise a Prince Philip (or Charles, Andrew…) — a village made up of their extended family plus lots of hired help.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    https://youtu.be/dLJHa2UqteI

    ("An emblem of loneliness among wealth." – Neil Tennant)
    , @Pheasant
    Perhaps it takes a boarding school?
  21. Houewellebeckque doesn’t look like he had an African father, but what do I know. And not that it could have mattered.

    If I had to guess, I’d say Whøłłbåck’s father was a giant rat.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Would be pretty funny if he belatedly dicovered Rippetoe. Wonder how that would affect his writing?
  22. @El Dato
    This is why the Onion and the Bee have no traction anymore.

    https://i.imgur.com/RCGDDjG.jpg

    Juxtapose the WP’s motto -Democracy Dies In Darkness – with the headline advocating for further enhancement of elite control over governance. Now that there is hypocrisy on steroids. The WP is very fond of Darkness, Democracy not so much. But this should come as no surprise, given that the WP is and has been the Voice of the Deep State for a long, long time. I give you David Ignatius, leaker extraordinaire for the CIA, case closed.

  23. When that didn’t happen, each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side,

    That’s rather contrived. Stanley and Madelyn Dunham did not provide a traditional / provincial upbringing for their grandson. By all accounts, Madelyn Dunham as a personality was a distinct feminine type of a sort you don’t see very often in this day and age, but that’s the only element that might be deemed ‘old school’. Honolulu’s haole population at that time was largely made up of a jumble of people who liked the climate better than their home town. The (surprisingly expensive) high-rise condo was the modal sort of housing for Honolulu’s bourgeoisie. (The one the Dunham’s lived in was kind of dumpy). There’s very little antique housing there and the sort of walkable neighborhoods favored by New Urbanists were atypical there and likely still are. There’s a certain ambient unseriousness there. When Obama was young, the Hawaiian shirt, chinos, and moccasins was the uniform of the Honolulu businessman; coats and ties were what you might wear to a court appearance or a formal dinner. Oahu had and has a sufficient population to support a full-spectrum research university; the University of Hawaii was spoken of with amusement by the locals, as a collecting pool of beach bums.

    As for the Dunhams themselves, the primary earner after about 1966 if not earlier was Madelyn. When Obama was under their care, Stanley was pulling in a little cash from over the phone sales of insurance policies out of their apartment. By all accounts, he had a sales personality and not a serious thought in his head. He favored the local Unitarian congregation because “you get five religions for the price of one”. They did count as ‘traditional provincial’ in that they respected their marriage vows and did not engage in repellently self-centered behavior in the manner of their daughter (who had her mother, her father, and her 2d husband cleaning up after her until she was nearly in middle age). However, they offered nothing to their grandson other than 1970s suburban consumer culture, sent him to an haut bourgeois school chock-a-block with people who had imbibed 1970s suburban consumer culture, came and went more-or-less as he pleased, and smoked a mess of dope.

  24. @black sea

    each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side, Houellebecq against the progressive/cosmopolitan side—though each remained fluent and comfortable enough in the other idiom to consort with, and “pass” among, those who still believed in it.
     
    And yet Obama's personal life, or at least the public depiction of it, seems pretty traditional: one marriage, no divorce, two kids, a relatively earnest striver making his way up the political ladder. He seems to have a decidedly practical, "no drama" bourgeois streak which he is comfortable indulging.

    Houellebecq, on the other hand, spent time as a young man in a mental hospital, has had a sexual life to rival those of his more dissolute characters, has been known to pass out drunk while being interviewed, invited various female journalists to join him and one of his earlier wives in a menage a trois, and is now, one can only hope, more settled and serene in his current marriage.

    Of course, Houellebecq is also by far the more interesting writer.

    And yet Obama’s personal life, or at least the public depiction of it, seems pretty traditional: one marriage, no divorce, two kids, a relatively earnest striver making his way up the political ladder. He seems to have a decidedly practical, “no drama” bourgeois streak which he is comfortable indulging.

    Both he and his sister have stayed out of the divorce courts. Both came from jumbled backgrounds, then married someone from a very distinct background (the same is true of Ted Cruz). His sister has also elected to stay put; she’s spent about 30 of the last 35 years in Honolulu. Obama lived in just two cities between 1985 and 2016. An anthropologist once told me that ‘conflict of adjacent generations’ and ‘congruence of alternate generation’ is a common feature found in the study of cultures.

    • Replies: @res

    An anthropologist once told me that ‘conflict of adjacent generations’ and ‘congruence of alternate generation’ is a common feature found in the study of cultures.
     
    Interesting. Thanks. Can you recommend any discussions of this idea? I am not finding anything useful with a quick search.
  25. When that didn’t happen, each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side

    Isn’t that just code for Obama turned against the white side of his family?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    He married Michelle Robinson, who had a pair of married parents solidly employed in wage-earning pursuits.

    And there was no 'black side of his family'. He had nothing to do with the domestic black population. His parents' marriage was invalid due to bigamy, he spent all of about nine weeks in the same city with his father over a period of 21 years, and didn't meet any of his father's relatives in Kenya until he was past 20.

  26. @RichardTaylor

    Mrs. Houellebecq shipped her son back home to be raised by more traditional grandparents, while she went off to save the (Third) World.
     
    Wikipedia says it this way:

    In a lengthy autobiographical article published on his website (now defunct), he states that his parents "lost interest in [his] existence pretty quickly", and at the age of six, he was sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.
     
    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world. We have a moral obligation to the offspring. It's not just their "free choice".

    sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.

    Yeah, while I was reading Caldwell’s version, I suspected that what Caldwell was calling “traditional/provincial” was only so by comparison to the radically irresponsible mothers.

    OTOH, I seem to recall that Obama’s grandparents were also some kind of stealth Commies, so maybe the parallel still holds, even if Caldwell’s concept of “traditional/provincial” is way to the left of reality’s median.

    BTW, these “traditional/provincial” grandparents remind me a bit of Charles Murray’s Talk-1960s-But-Live-1950s schtick. I have some people in my extended family like that. It may have worked okay for them: they get to virtue signal as champagne socialists while enjoying the benefits of a stable bourgeois environment, but it doesn’t always go so well for the offspring, who, young and impressionable as the are, don’t perceive their parents’ gross hypocrisy and mistakenly take them at their word on all their professed opinions as guidance in their own lives. Tragedies generally result. Of course, one of the tragedies may yet become President or and epochal bestselling writer, but it seems that for every one of those, there are a thousand human trainwrecks, so my money is on the trainwrecks staying trainwrecked. And, if you consider that the larger effect of the President was on balance baleful, even the “successes” are illusory.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    OTOH, I seem to recall that Obama’s grandparents were also some kind of stealth Commies,

    In someone's imagination. Not in the world we actually inhabit. The same sort of people fancy Sheriff Joe Arpaio had demonstrated Obama's long-form birth certificate is a forgery, fancy Obama's sire was Frank Marshall Davis, and fancy Obama is bisexual if not homosexual.
    , @Desiderius
    The original Left was the bourgeoisie. No reason they can't return to their roots.
  27. @a reader

    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world.
     
    Anyway, children may still reserve surprises to their parents.

    Tennessee’s Sexually Oriented Business Licensing Board.

    WTF?

    her fiancé Chuck Pankow

    Any relation to James of Chicago, who also can blow up a storm, albeit in a different sense?

    Potential titles:

    You’re My Inspiration
    Look Away
    Make Me Smile

    38 or 24 to 36
    Does Anybody Really Know What Climax Is?
    Questions 67, 68, and 69

    Saturday in the Park

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    S.O.B.L.B. may seem more California than Tennessee, but it may be an attempt to keep that type of "business" under control.
  28. @a reader

    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world.
     
    Anyway, children may still reserve surprises to their parents.

    This daughter of Spielberg’s is an adopted NAM. The article I read says she is engaged to a redneck professional dart player. That has got to be the bigger scandal in the Spielberg home.

    • Agree: fish
    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
  29. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    I gladly and proudly voted for Obama in 2008 to prevent war with Russia and Iran.

    I gladly and proudly voted for Obama in 2008 to prevent war with Russia and Iran.

    You were a idiot. Obama has always been a war candidate, and it was no surprise that he attkhed Syria, Lybia, and Ukraine after he was elected, killing over 1 million people (increased mortality rates).
    You voted for war crimes – typcial progressive.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    attkhed Syria, Lybia, and Ukraine after he was elected, killing over 1 million people (increased mortality rates).

    Someone you're consulting is using an accounting method that doesn't belong in a poker game.
    , @Servant of Gla'aki

    You were a idiot. Obama has always been a war candidate...
     
    If he'd vote for McCain the Pacifist, would he then be smart?
  30. @Almost Missouri


    sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.
     

     
    Yeah, while I was reading Caldwell's version, I suspected that what Caldwell was calling "traditional/provincial" was only so by comparison to the radically irresponsible mothers.

    OTOH, I seem to recall that Obama's grandparents were also some kind of stealth Commies, so maybe the parallel still holds, even if Caldwell's concept of "traditional/provincial" is way to the left of reality's median.

    BTW, these "traditional/provincial" grandparents remind me a bit of Charles Murray's Talk-1960s-But-Live-1950s schtick. I have some people in my extended family like that. It may have worked okay for them: they get to virtue signal as champagne socialists while enjoying the benefits of a stable bourgeois environment, but it doesn't always go so well for the offspring, who, young and impressionable as the are, don't perceive their parents' gross hypocrisy and mistakenly take them at their word on all their professed opinions as guidance in their own lives. Tragedies generally result. Of course, one of the tragedies may yet become President or and epochal bestselling writer, but it seems that for every one of those, there are a thousand human trainwrecks, so my money is on the trainwrecks staying trainwrecked. And, if you consider that the larger effect of the President was on balance baleful, even the "successes" are illusory.

    OTOH, I seem to recall that Obama’s grandparents were also some kind of stealth Commies,

    In someone’s imagination. Not in the world we actually inhabit. The same sort of people fancy Sheriff Joe Arpaio had demonstrated Obama’s long-form birth certificate is a forgery, fancy Obama’s sire was Frank Marshall Davis, and fancy Obama is bisexual if not homosexual.

    • Replies: @Alden
    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2. The Dunhams were hard left who associated with communists all their lives. Like most communists they indoctrinated their daughter. Grandma Dunham supported the family as a bank officer. Nothing special or feminist about that. Banks have always employed a lot of women as managers because women accept the low salaries. Many banks opened at 10 and closed at 3 in those days. Ideal job for married women with kids.
    , @Anonymous
    None of those things have been truly disproven.

    I hold that when selecting a President of the United States, the onus is on the candidate to prove he is officeworthy. If we had a democracyworthy electorate, a reasonable suspicion that a candidate is other than truthfully disclosed is reason enough to say “er, let’s keep looking”.

    Obama and Clinton failed the sniff test six ways to Sunday. Bush II and Trump were not perfect, but you pretty much knew what you were getting.

    Ron Paul was probably as close to perfect as is reasonably possible. Look how far he got.

    We are not worthy. Literally we are not worthy of self-government and it will end. Empires always end this way.
  31. @anonymous
    I gladly and proudly voted for Obama in 2008 to prevent war with Russia and Iran.

    This is an interesting read. Especially on Syria and Libya. The book covers other geo-strategic issues besides the Bin Laden raid. The book also chronicles US weapon smuggling through Turkey for Syrian “moderate rebels” known as the infamous “Rat Line.”

    -Sort’ve like a Charlie Wilson thing but after the Cold War.

    I supported Obama over McCain for that very reason. But we still had two Middle East wars regardless.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Actually, the book reports Hersh's latest frauds and fantasies.
  32. @Art Deco
    And yet Obama’s personal life, or at least the public depiction of it, seems pretty traditional: one marriage, no divorce, two kids, a relatively earnest striver making his way up the political ladder. He seems to have a decidedly practical, “no drama” bourgeois streak which he is comfortable indulging.

    Both he and his sister have stayed out of the divorce courts. Both came from jumbled backgrounds, then married someone from a very distinct background (the same is true of Ted Cruz). His sister has also elected to stay put; she's spent about 30 of the last 35 years in Honolulu. Obama lived in just two cities between 1985 and 2016. An anthropologist once told me that 'conflict of adjacent generations' and 'congruence of alternate generation' is a common feature found in the study of cultures.

    An anthropologist once told me that ‘conflict of adjacent generations’ and ‘congruence of alternate generation’ is a common feature found in the study of cultures.

    Interesting. Thanks. Can you recommend any discussions of this idea? I am not finding anything useful with a quick search.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Greatness famously skips a generation.

    My sense is that there is a four generation cycle: Greatness->Dissolution->Determination->Devotion->Greatness etc...

    Greatness precludes much in the way of parenting, and vice versa.
    , @Alden
    There was no generational conflict in Obama’s family 3 generations of hard leftists, very similar to Weather underground Kathy Boudin Bernadette Dohrn and countless others.

    Even the Rosenbergs. They were communist spies. Their parents and grandparents were Jewish revolutionaries back in Russia and their 2 sons were raised by communists. The sons are in their 80s and spent their entire lives making speeches in colleges and other leftist venues that their parents were totally innocent.

    There are a lot of multi generational hard left families. Chesa Boudin is not the first pro criminal 4th generation leftist commie to become San Francisco district attorney. Terence Hallinan was the first son of a well known communist to become the elected San Francisco district attorney. He fired about half the ADAs within days of taking offices and replaced them with SJWs.

    There’s one leftist family I know of whose fifth generation finally rejected the communist leftist activism. That’s the now late middle aged great great great grandchildren of Sam Untermeyer the attorney and big share holder of Standard Oil and advisor to Woodrow Wilson Who blackmailed Wilson into WW1.

    There are a lot of hard left families living the grand bourgeoisie private school wealthy suburb lifestyle while raising revolutionary children. Sometimes it works out, like Obama and his mother or 4 generations of Boudins and Rosenbergs. I know it wasn’t till the fifth generation that one branch of Exxon millionaire Untermeyers rejected revolution.

  33. @RichardTaylor

    Mrs. Houellebecq shipped her son back home to be raised by more traditional grandparents, while she went off to save the (Third) World.
     
    Wikipedia says it this way:

    In a lengthy autobiographical article published on his website (now defunct), he states that his parents "lost interest in [his] existence pretty quickly", and at the age of six, he was sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.
     
    This is why we need some controls on who brings children into the world. We have a moral obligation to the offspring. It's not just their "free choice".

    Maybe Child Protective Services needs to have its jurisdiction extended to potential children.

  34. @Kronos
    https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Osama-Bin-Laden-ebook/dp/B011G4DOEM

    This is an interesting read. Especially on Syria and Libya. The book covers other geo-strategic issues besides the Bin Laden raid. The book also chronicles US weapon smuggling through Turkey for Syrian “moderate rebels” known as the infamous “Rat Line.”

    -Sort’ve like a Charlie Wilson thing but after the Cold War.

    I supported Obama over McCain for that very reason. But we still had two Middle East wars regardless.

    Actually, the book reports Hersh’s latest frauds and fantasies.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Oh so in other words the totally illegitimate thug gangs involved will not confirm Hersh's sources' claims. Sure would be wierd then if others did anyway.
    --------
    The book that figured out the identity of the proto-Manchurian who ice-pickaxed Trotsky in Mexico described the assassin's mother as a totally immoral Stalinist who organized massacres in Spain, misled opposition, then partied hard in Moscow with lots of alcohol and sex, before turning her son over to the Nudgers.
    Between this, the shining example of motherhood described above, the mother of the first gender reassignment surgery recipient, and the Fouth Turning's description of boomer parental premises suggested by Hollywood subjects (Gen X childhood era films being THE DEMON CHILD WHO CHEWS HIS WAY OUT OF YOUR WOMB and that stopping on a dime for the first Millennial), there is a consistent pattern of selfishness. It is notable that what we associate with a particular time period (and which therefore might have several causes) is clearly a predictable result of ideology.
  35. @Art Deco
    Actually, the book reports Hersh's latest frauds and fantasies.

    Oh so in other words the totally illegitimate thug gangs involved will not confirm Hersh’s sources’ claims. Sure would be wierd then if others did anyway.
    ——–
    The book that figured out the identity of the proto-Manchurian who ice-pickaxed Trotsky in Mexico described the assassin’s mother as a totally immoral Stalinist who organized massacres in Spain, misled opposition, then partied hard in Moscow with lots of alcohol and sex, before turning her son over to the Nudgers.
    Between this, the shining example of motherhood described above, the mother of the first gender reassignment surgery recipient, and the Fouth Turning’s description of boomer parental premises suggested by Hollywood subjects (Gen X childhood era films being THE DEMON CHILD WHO CHEWS HIS WAY OUT OF YOUR WOMB and that stopping on a dime for the first Millennial), there is a consistent pattern of selfishness. It is notable that what we associate with a particular time period (and which therefore might have several causes) is clearly a predictable result of ideology.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Oh so in other words the totally illegitimate thug gangs involved will not confirm Hersh’s sources’ claims.

    No, the passably legitimate historians who've reviewed his previous work have demonstrated he's a peddler of fictions.
  36. Cf. Lars Von Trier.

  37. @International Jew
    Houewellebeckque doesn't look like he had an African father, but what do I know. And not that it could have mattered.

    If I had to guess, I'd say Whøłłbåck's father was a giant rat.

    Would be pretty funny if he belatedly dicovered Rippetoe. Wonder how that would affect his writing?

  38. @res

    An anthropologist once told me that ‘conflict of adjacent generations’ and ‘congruence of alternate generation’ is a common feature found in the study of cultures.
     
    Interesting. Thanks. Can you recommend any discussions of this idea? I am not finding anything useful with a quick search.

    Greatness famously skips a generation.

    My sense is that there is a four generation cycle: Greatness->Dissolution->Determination->Devotion->Greatness etc…

    Greatness precludes much in the way of parenting, and vice versa.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Greatness precludes much in the way of parenting"

    Churchill was a pretty lonely child in many ways - he wrote that he only had "three or four long intimate conversations" with his father in his life, and as for his socialite mother "She shone for me like the Evening Star. I loved her dearly—but at a distance. My nurse was my confidante".

    In fact the standard upper-middle class upbringing of Georgian and Victorian days, which turned out so many intrepid types, seems highly abusive to the modern mind
  39. @Almost Missouri


    sent to France to live with his paternal grandmother, a communist, while his mother left to live a hippie lifestyle in Brazil with her recent boyfriend.
     

     
    Yeah, while I was reading Caldwell's version, I suspected that what Caldwell was calling "traditional/provincial" was only so by comparison to the radically irresponsible mothers.

    OTOH, I seem to recall that Obama's grandparents were also some kind of stealth Commies, so maybe the parallel still holds, even if Caldwell's concept of "traditional/provincial" is way to the left of reality's median.

    BTW, these "traditional/provincial" grandparents remind me a bit of Charles Murray's Talk-1960s-But-Live-1950s schtick. I have some people in my extended family like that. It may have worked okay for them: they get to virtue signal as champagne socialists while enjoying the benefits of a stable bourgeois environment, but it doesn't always go so well for the offspring, who, young and impressionable as the are, don't perceive their parents' gross hypocrisy and mistakenly take them at their word on all their professed opinions as guidance in their own lives. Tragedies generally result. Of course, one of the tragedies may yet become President or and epochal bestselling writer, but it seems that for every one of those, there are a thousand human trainwrecks, so my money is on the trainwrecks staying trainwrecked. And, if you consider that the larger effect of the President was on balance baleful, even the "successes" are illusory.

    The original Left was the bourgeoisie. No reason they can’t return to their roots.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Ya mean like Karl Marx idling away on his Manifesto while living on Engels's factory dividends and schtupping the maid?

    As far as I can tell, they have yet to leave their roots.

  40. That quote is a pretty interesting observation.

    But there are weird errors (The first addition of 8 former Warsaw pact countries along with Malta and Cyprus was in 2004 not 2002.) and errors of omission, why didn’t he mention the fact that the edition of Charlie Hebdo on news stands at the time was one crudely mocking Houellebecq’s powers of prediction on the cover when the attack on it’s offices occurred or that the later Paris attacks matched almost perfectly the kind of attacks described in the opening of Submission? Why not mention the EU’s trade deal with Brazil allowing the triff-free import of Brazilian beef despite the cost of the creation of Brazilian beef and the total lack of any need.

    I’m also not sure what competitive effect has emerged from Eastern European agricultural products, I don’t know it’s too significant. If anything the cheap labour it has produced has been a boone to Western European farmers. I would have thought the result would have been something like what happened to Polish industry upon entry, with Germany more than making up for differing production costs with raw centralised logic and superior production productivity and quality, leading to an increase in German industry at the expense of Poland’s.

    • Replies: @fnn

    Why not mention the EU’s trade deal with Brazil allowing the triff-free import of Brazilian beef despite the cost of the creation of Brazilian beef and the total lack of any need.
     
    EU accelerating the destruction of the Amazon rainforest. Haha, I thought there were people in Europe who cared about such things.
    , @Twodees Partain
    Are you posting this on the wrong thread, by chance?
  41. @anon

    I gladly and proudly voted for Obama in 2008 to prevent war with Russia and Iran.
     
    You were a idiot. Obama has always been a war candidate, and it was no surprise that he attkhed Syria, Lybia, and Ukraine after he was elected, killing over 1 million people (increased mortality rates).
    You voted for war crimes - typcial progressive.

    attkhed Syria, Lybia, and Ukraine after he was elected, killing over 1 million people (increased mortality rates).

    Someone you’re consulting is using an accounting method that doesn’t belong in a poker game.

  42. @peterike

    When that didn’t happen, each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side

     

    Isn't that just code for Obama turned against the white side of his family?

    He married Michelle Robinson, who had a pair of married parents solidly employed in wage-earning pursuits.

    And there was no ‘black side of his family’. He had nothing to do with the domestic black population. His parents’ marriage was invalid due to bigamy, he spent all of about nine weeks in the same city with his father over a period of 21 years, and didn’t meet any of his father’s relatives in Kenya until he was past 20.

  43. @J.Ross
    Oh so in other words the totally illegitimate thug gangs involved will not confirm Hersh's sources' claims. Sure would be wierd then if others did anyway.
    --------
    The book that figured out the identity of the proto-Manchurian who ice-pickaxed Trotsky in Mexico described the assassin's mother as a totally immoral Stalinist who organized massacres in Spain, misled opposition, then partied hard in Moscow with lots of alcohol and sex, before turning her son over to the Nudgers.
    Between this, the shining example of motherhood described above, the mother of the first gender reassignment surgery recipient, and the Fouth Turning's description of boomer parental premises suggested by Hollywood subjects (Gen X childhood era films being THE DEMON CHILD WHO CHEWS HIS WAY OUT OF YOUR WOMB and that stopping on a dime for the first Millennial), there is a consistent pattern of selfishness. It is notable that what we associate with a particular time period (and which therefore might have several causes) is clearly a predictable result of ideology.

    Oh so in other words the totally illegitimate thug gangs involved will not confirm Hersh’s sources’ claims.

    No, the passably legitimate historians who’ve reviewed his previous work have demonstrated he’s a peddler of fictions.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    If he lied all the time in the past but was independently verified here then that means he is telling the truth here.
  44. @Desiderius
    The original Left was the bourgeoisie. No reason they can't return to their roots.

    Ya mean like Karl Marx idling away on his Manifesto while living on Engels’s factory dividends and schtupping the maid?

    As far as I can tell, they have yet to leave their roots.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    No, the Left wing of the National Assembly. I’ve become more fond of Altar and Throne with age but my heart still resides with my fellow shopkeepers and the like.
  45. @Almost Missouri
    Ya mean like Karl Marx idling away on his Manifesto while living on Engels's factory dividends and schtupping the maid?

    As far as I can tell, they have yet to leave their roots.

    No, the Left wing of the National Assembly. I’ve become more fond of Altar and Throne with age but my heart still resides with my fellow shopkeepers and the like.

  46. @Dumbo
    So, was Houellebecq's mom also a..., how to put it in polite language, a "coal burner"?

    It seems it is common for artists to have "slut" moms who abandon or semi-abandon them. Tarantino (I don't like his films, but I suppose he has a certain talent) was apparently another, and Truffaut's mom too (he even made a film about it, he also born illegitimately and was sent to live with grandparents)

    Schopenhauer also seemed to have "mommy issues", but I think it was a slightly different situation.

    Here an article about Houellebecq's mom, she seems quite a character. Maybe some women really *shouldn't* or weren't meant to have children.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/the-mother-of-all-memoirs-1.1265758

    John Lennon was abandoned by his mother and raised by his grandparents if I recall.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  47. @Art Deco
    Oh so in other words the totally illegitimate thug gangs involved will not confirm Hersh’s sources’ claims.

    No, the passably legitimate historians who've reviewed his previous work have demonstrated he's a peddler of fictions.

    If he lied all the time in the past but was independently verified here then that means he is telling the truth here.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    He's not selling the book as an invitation for you to spend a year in archives 'independently verifying' him. He's inviting you to trust him. And evidently you do. Which, given how others over a period of 35 years have demonstrated what a sloppy fraud his is, isn't very prudent.
  48. Whatever his upbringing, Houellebecq is culturally and socially very French, perhaps an epitome of late 20th century Frenchness. But Obama is hardly an American, half-African and raised in exotic Hawaii and Indonesia, and not even a black American. He’s a rootless cosmopolitan though still an ignoramus, a former CIA toyboy asset and a freemason. Now there’s a difference.
    Houellebecq and Baudelaire could have a conversation. But what does Obama and Andrew Jackson have in common?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Obama has cosmopolitan attitudes. However, there isn't much indication of liberal education in him. Hawaii is odd, as is any place with particular features. It's not exotic. As for his time in Indonesia, there's a Youtube out of him attempting to utter 40 seconds worth of remarks in the Malay trader's dialect commonly spoken there. I don't think the place made much of an impression on him.
    Obama strikes me as the sort of person you see employed as an NGO functionary. He's the deputy dean of students.
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    But what does Obama and Andrew Jackson have in common?

    Not much, but Obama and Thomas Jefferson would have got on famously.

    Obama is 100% American. He may not be the kind of American you personally like, but everything about his mannerisms, his attitudes, his speech, his unconscious arrogance, his lack of awareness that his value system is not actually "universal" is of a type, a type that is really only created and found in the US and maybe Canada. That is why Obama is so beloved by overeducated Blue State Americans - he is a typical white East Coast prep school kid but wearing a veneer of black skin.

    The only non-American thing about Obama is his weight.

  49. @Jake
    That sounds great, and it is exactly what Hillary wants. And so does Bloomberg. And Obama. Etc

    Are you a Lefty or just rather dull?

    That sounds great, and it is exactly what Hillary wants. And so does Bloomberg. And Obama. Etc

    Actually, social and legal controls over reproduction have been the norm in the history of European and other peoples. That’s why a woman having a child out of wedlock was such a big deal. Parents used to play a larger role in marriages and would steer their daughters away from families that were “bad seed”, i.e. a bunch of drunks or thieves. So no, making sure a child has decent genetics and a chance at a good environment isn’t some “Lefty” preoccupation. Quite the opposite.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    " So no, making sure a child has decent genetics and a chance at a good environment isn’t some “Lefty” preoccupation. "

    Of course it is. Haven't you ever heard of eugenics?
  50. @Desiderius
    Greatness famously skips a generation.

    My sense is that there is a four generation cycle: Greatness->Dissolution->Determination->Devotion->Greatness etc...

    Greatness precludes much in the way of parenting, and vice versa.

    “Greatness precludes much in the way of parenting”

    Churchill was a pretty lonely child in many ways – he wrote that he only had “three or four long intimate conversations” with his father in his life, and as for his socialite mother “She shone for me like the Evening Star. I loved her dearly—but at a distance. My nurse was my confidante“.

    In fact the standard upper-middle class upbringing of Georgian and Victorian days, which turned out so many intrepid types, seems highly abusive to the modern mind

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That's because modern mind is an oxymoron.

    Churchill had a spectacular nanny and a mother who knew many great men in all the senses of that word, and many doted on young Winnie.

    What I had in mind was Benjamin Franklin.
  51. @J.Ross
    If he lied all the time in the past but was independently verified here then that means he is telling the truth here.

    He’s not selling the book as an invitation for you to spend a year in archives ‘independently verifying’ him. He’s inviting you to trust him. And evidently you do. Which, given how others over a period of 35 years have demonstrated what a sloppy fraud his is, isn’t very prudent.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  52. @Bardon Kaldian
    The only connection is- they both have psychos with world-savior complex for mothers.

    The only connection is- they both have psychos with world-savior complex for mothers.

    Ummm…that’s quite a connection, no?

  53. @anon

    I gladly and proudly voted for Obama in 2008 to prevent war with Russia and Iran.
     
    You were a idiot. Obama has always been a war candidate, and it was no surprise that he attkhed Syria, Lybia, and Ukraine after he was elected, killing over 1 million people (increased mortality rates).
    You voted for war crimes - typcial progressive.

    You were a idiot. Obama has always been a war candidate…

    If he’d vote for McCain the Pacifist, would he then be smart?

  54. @YetAnotherAnon
    "Greatness precludes much in the way of parenting"

    Churchill was a pretty lonely child in many ways - he wrote that he only had "three or four long intimate conversations" with his father in his life, and as for his socialite mother "She shone for me like the Evening Star. I loved her dearly—but at a distance. My nurse was my confidante".

    In fact the standard upper-middle class upbringing of Georgian and Victorian days, which turned out so many intrepid types, seems highly abusive to the modern mind

    That’s because modern mind is an oxymoron.

    Churchill had a spectacular nanny and a mother who knew many great men in all the senses of that word, and many doted on young Winnie.

    What I had in mind was Benjamin Franklin.

  55. @utu
    "Imagine mommy leaving you for months and years at a time." - You get people who built British Empire.

    Ha, yeah I thought of that, too. Evidently Presidents and novelists as well.

    And a surfeit of nances, ponces an Tom Brown’s School Days, but nobody’s perfect.

  56. @BB753
    Whatever his upbringing, Houellebecq is culturally and socially very French, perhaps an epitome of late 20th century Frenchness. But Obama is hardly an American, half-African and raised in exotic Hawaii and Indonesia, and not even a black American. He's a rootless cosmopolitan though still an ignoramus, a former CIA toyboy asset and a freemason. Now there's a difference.
    Houellebecq and Baudelaire could have a conversation. But what does Obama and Andrew Jackson have in common?

    Obama has cosmopolitan attitudes. However, there isn’t much indication of liberal education in him. Hawaii is odd, as is any place with particular features. It’s not exotic. As for his time in Indonesia, there’s a Youtube out of him attempting to utter 40 seconds worth of remarks in the Malay trader’s dialect commonly spoken there. I don’t think the place made much of an impression on him.
    Obama strikes me as the sort of person you see employed as an NGO functionary. He’s the deputy dean of students.

    • Agree: BB753
  57. @Hhsiii
    My 3 year old son cries every time my wife leaves for work in the morning. Separation anxiety is very real at that age. Imagine mommy leaving you for months and years at a time.

    I remember when I was 12 and my sisters about 5 and 3. She’d go off for 2 hours every Saturday morning for grocery shopping and errands. They’d cry and cry loudly for about 10 minutes every time. Then go back to happily playing. I thought it was strange.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    Yes my son is fine and happy shortly after.

    I went to boarding school at 12 but that’s a bit older. My mom went at 6. As a late teen I briefly saw a therapist. My mom was one and my parents both went. When she inquired what he asked about I said about my parents. She said they always blame the parents. I said I told him we weren’t very demonstrative. She said “well, we aren’t Italian.”

    But we were a pretty well-adjusted family nevertheless. Normal American privilege. Back then.
  58. @Art Deco
    OTOH, I seem to recall that Obama’s grandparents were also some kind of stealth Commies,

    In someone's imagination. Not in the world we actually inhabit. The same sort of people fancy Sheriff Joe Arpaio had demonstrated Obama's long-form birth certificate is a forgery, fancy Obama's sire was Frank Marshall Davis, and fancy Obama is bisexual if not homosexual.

    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2. The Dunhams were hard left who associated with communists all their lives. Like most communists they indoctrinated their daughter. Grandma Dunham supported the family as a bank officer. Nothing special or feminist about that. Banks have always employed a lot of women as managers because women accept the low salaries. Many banks opened at 10 and closed at 3 in those days. Ideal job for married women with kids.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    Fellow travelers. But they don’t sound like they were too serious about it.

    10-3. Do they still say that? When I was a young lawyer if you left before 9 p.m. they’d say “Banker’s hours?”
    , @Art Deco
    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    1. Frank Marshall Davis was a friend of Stanley Dunham's. No clue where this 'best friend' meme came from.

    2. Davis arrived in Hawaii around about 1946 as an official of the west coast Longshoremen's union. Both he and Harry Bridges were Communist Party members at that time. When Stanley Dunham knew him he was running a small distributorship. Quite a mess of people left the Communist Party after 1946 for one reason or another.


    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2.

    In 1939, Madelyn Payne (later Dunham) was a high school student living in Butler County, Ks. Her father was a clerk / bookkeeper for the Sinclair Oil Co. Stanley Dunham, then 21 years of age, was living in Wichita (in Sedgwick County), working as a salesman. His maternal grandfather, whom he'd grown up with, was living in Wichita still employed as an oil field worker. His father, widowed and remarried, was living in Wichita with his 2d family working as an auto mechanic. Ralph Dunham was born, lived, and died within 50 miles of Wichita. The FBI must have had quite a lot of surplus manpower to be keeping tabs on him.

    , @Crawfurdmuir

    Many banks opened at 10 and closed at 3 in those days. Ideal job for married women with kids.
     
    They opened to the public at 10 am and closed to the public at 3 pm. The staff reported to work earlier and left later - the time after closing was spent counting the tellers' tills and recording loans made or paid during the day, so that the books could be balanced daily.
  59. @res

    An anthropologist once told me that ‘conflict of adjacent generations’ and ‘congruence of alternate generation’ is a common feature found in the study of cultures.
     
    Interesting. Thanks. Can you recommend any discussions of this idea? I am not finding anything useful with a quick search.

    There was no generational conflict in Obama’s family 3 generations of hard leftists, very similar to Weather underground Kathy Boudin Bernadette Dohrn and countless others.

    Even the Rosenbergs. They were communist spies. Their parents and grandparents were Jewish revolutionaries back in Russia and their 2 sons were raised by communists. The sons are in their 80s and spent their entire lives making speeches in colleges and other leftist venues that their parents were totally innocent.

    There are a lot of multi generational hard left families. Chesa Boudin is not the first pro criminal 4th generation leftist commie to become San Francisco district attorney. Terence Hallinan was the first son of a well known communist to become the elected San Francisco district attorney. He fired about half the ADAs within days of taking offices and replaced them with SJWs.

    There’s one leftist family I know of whose fifth generation finally rejected the communist leftist activism. That’s the now late middle aged great great great grandchildren of Sam Untermeyer the attorney and big share holder of Standard Oil and advisor to Woodrow Wilson Who blackmailed Wilson into WW1.

    There are a lot of hard left families living the grand bourgeoisie private school wealthy suburb lifestyle while raising revolutionary children. Sometimes it works out, like Obama and his mother or 4 generations of Boudins and Rosenbergs. I know it wasn’t till the fifth generation that one branch of Exxon millionaire Untermeyers rejected revolution.

  60. @Alden
    I remember when I was 12 and my sisters about 5 and 3. She’d go off for 2 hours every Saturday morning for grocery shopping and errands. They’d cry and cry loudly for about 10 minutes every time. Then go back to happily playing. I thought it was strange.

    Yes my son is fine and happy shortly after.

    I went to boarding school at 12 but that’s a bit older. My mom went at 6. As a late teen I briefly saw a therapist. My mom was one and my parents both went. When she inquired what he asked about I said about my parents. She said they always blame the parents. I said I told him we weren’t very demonstrative. She said “well, we aren’t Italian.”

    But we were a pretty well-adjusted family nevertheless. Normal American privilege. Back then.

  61. @Alden
    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2. The Dunhams were hard left who associated with communists all their lives. Like most communists they indoctrinated their daughter. Grandma Dunham supported the family as a bank officer. Nothing special or feminist about that. Banks have always employed a lot of women as managers because women accept the low salaries. Many banks opened at 10 and closed at 3 in those days. Ideal job for married women with kids.

    Fellow travelers. But they don’t sound like they were too serious about it.

    10-3. Do they still say that? When I was a young lawyer if you left before 9 p.m. they’d say “Banker’s hours?”

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    If they were 'fellow travelers', they must have belonged to some front organization or to one of the red-haze unions. Who did you have in mind, and which organization?
  62. @Alden
    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2. The Dunhams were hard left who associated with communists all their lives. Like most communists they indoctrinated their daughter. Grandma Dunham supported the family as a bank officer. Nothing special or feminist about that. Banks have always employed a lot of women as managers because women accept the low salaries. Many banks opened at 10 and closed at 3 in those days. Ideal job for married women with kids.

    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    1. Frank Marshall Davis was a friend of Stanley Dunham’s. No clue where this ‘best friend’ meme came from.

    2. Davis arrived in Hawaii around about 1946 as an official of the west coast Longshoremen’s union. Both he and Harry Bridges were Communist Party members at that time. When Stanley Dunham knew him he was running a small distributorship. Quite a mess of people left the Communist Party after 1946 for one reason or another.

    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2.

    In 1939, Madelyn Payne (later Dunham) was a high school student living in Butler County, Ks. Her father was a clerk / bookkeeper for the Sinclair Oil Co. Stanley Dunham, then 21 years of age, was living in Wichita (in Sedgwick County), working as a salesman. His maternal grandfather, whom he’d grown up with, was living in Wichita still employed as an oil field worker. His father, widowed and remarried, was living in Wichita with his 2d family working as an auto mechanic. Ralph Dunham was born, lived, and died within 50 miles of Wichita. The FBI must have had quite a lot of surplus manpower to be keeping tabs on him.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @JMcG
    Left the Communist Party after 1946 for one reason or another? What might some of those reasons be? Dunham screams commie. As does FDM. Sometimes a duck is a duck.
    , @Alden
    You don’t know much about the history of socialism radicalism the labor movement and communism do you? 1

    Frank Marshal Davis was the head of the communist party of Hawaii. According to Obama’s books, Davis was grandpa Dunhams best friend and a constant presence in young Barry’s life. Davis saw Barry and grandpa Dunham several times a week and Davis indoctrinated Barry about the injustices done to blacks the third world revolutions and all the rest of it.

    When Madelyn and Stanley were young the west and mid west weren’t Republican Party strongholds. They were populist radical farmer labor party strong holds. It was partly due to Scandinavian German immigrants who were socialist anyway. Mostly due to exploitation of workers and small farmers by east coast unrestrained dog eat dog capitalism.

    Ever hear of Joe Hill Big Bill Hayden communist run CIO and even IBEW revolutionary International Workers of the World Eugene Debs William Jennings Bryan John Peter Altgeld Haymarket riots populist party Radical Reed college Montana copper miners revolutionary party Farmer Labor Party Bob LaFollete ? That was the milieu of Obamas grandparents.

    Kansas Nebraska Wisconsin Minnesota Montana Illinois all those states were full of exploited small farmers and workers looking for radical change from 1880 on Then the depression and dust bowl came along Obama’s grandparents and many midwesterners were part of that
    That sleepy Seattle suburb like Seattle, was then and still is was a gathering place for radicals from the 1880s to the present. It’s the only town in America that has a statue of Lenin.

    Anne Dunham’s local public high school was known as the Little Red School House. The school had Marxism classes. The Dunham parents raised her to be another Angela Davis Lani Guinier Lynn Stewart Kathy Boudin. White commie family boomer girls were encouraged to go after black men. Obama was their great success.

    As for Frank Davis’ friendship with Grandpa Dunham and influence on, Barry Obama, just read Obama’s autobiographies. Davis saw the Dunhams a couple times a week.

    Not all 1880s to 1960 communists, radicals and reformers were Noo Yawk Jew Ellis Islanders.
    The populists socialists radical labor unions and Farmer Labor parties were very strong in the Midwest. FDR’s depression reforms and social welfare absorbed most of them into the Democrats.

    The Dunham’s became radicals in the 1930s as many people did and kept the faith during the boring prosperous 1950s. They left Kansas for the radical milieu of Seattle and the Little Red School House. As soon as they arrived in Hawaii became fast friends with Frank Davis head of the communist party and like Lynn Stewart’s Lani Guinier’s and many commie parents, encouraged their daughter to marry a black man.

    I don’t do commas

    , @Alden
    The FBI kept track of Stanley Dunham all his life.
  63. @Hhsiii
    Fellow travelers. But they don’t sound like they were too serious about it.

    10-3. Do they still say that? When I was a young lawyer if you left before 9 p.m. they’d say “Banker’s hours?”

    If they were ‘fellow travelers’, they must have belonged to some front organization or to one of the red-haze unions. Who did you have in mind, and which organization?

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    I just meant sympathetic and not actual.
  64. @Art Deco
    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    1. Frank Marshall Davis was a friend of Stanley Dunham's. No clue where this 'best friend' meme came from.

    2. Davis arrived in Hawaii around about 1946 as an official of the west coast Longshoremen's union. Both he and Harry Bridges were Communist Party members at that time. When Stanley Dunham knew him he was running a small distributorship. Quite a mess of people left the Communist Party after 1946 for one reason or another.


    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2.

    In 1939, Madelyn Payne (later Dunham) was a high school student living in Butler County, Ks. Her father was a clerk / bookkeeper for the Sinclair Oil Co. Stanley Dunham, then 21 years of age, was living in Wichita (in Sedgwick County), working as a salesman. His maternal grandfather, whom he'd grown up with, was living in Wichita still employed as an oil field worker. His father, widowed and remarried, was living in Wichita with his 2d family working as an auto mechanic. Ralph Dunham was born, lived, and died within 50 miles of Wichita. The FBI must have had quite a lot of surplus manpower to be keeping tabs on him.

    Left the Communist Party after 1946 for one reason or another? What might some of those reasons be? Dunham screams commie. As does FDM. Sometimes a duck is a duck.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Dunham screams commie.

    A furniture salesman living in an exurb of Seattle 'screams Commie'?
  65. @Art Deco
    If they were 'fellow travelers', they must have belonged to some front organization or to one of the red-haze unions. Who did you have in mind, and which organization?

    I just meant sympathetic and not actual.

  66. Colin Kaepernick is the figure who always reminded me of Obama.

  67. @International Jew
    Family life among the high aristocracy rarely resembles what Americans think of as a traditional nuclear family. You might say it "takes a village" to raise a Prince Philip (or Charles, Andrew...) — a village made up of their extended family plus lots of hired help.

    (“An emblem of loneliness among wealth.” – Neil Tennant)

  68. @Alden
    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2. The Dunhams were hard left who associated with communists all their lives. Like most communists they indoctrinated their daughter. Grandma Dunham supported the family as a bank officer. Nothing special or feminist about that. Banks have always employed a lot of women as managers because women accept the low salaries. Many banks opened at 10 and closed at 3 in those days. Ideal job for married women with kids.

    Many banks opened at 10 and closed at 3 in those days. Ideal job for married women with kids.

    They opened to the public at 10 am and closed to the public at 3 pm. The staff reported to work earlier and left later – the time after closing was spent counting the tellers’ tills and recording loans made or paid during the day, so that the books could be balanced daily.

    • Replies: @Alden
    True, but banking was still more 9-4 for the employees. And the loan officers didn’t have to count the money at the end of the day. As I remember, banks had more women managers than most businesses back in the day.
  69. @anonymous
    I gladly and proudly voted for Obama in 2008 to prevent war with Russia and Iran.

    Ironic now that the Dems have gone full bonkers anti-Russia. I wonder what Obama would say about that if he could tell the truth.

  70. Hoolebeck sucks. He hates sex in the 1960s so much he writes about it all the time. (In a boring way, but that’s tangential.)

  71. @black sea

    each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side, Houellebecq against the progressive/cosmopolitan side—though each remained fluent and comfortable enough in the other idiom to consort with, and “pass” among, those who still believed in it.
     
    And yet Obama's personal life, or at least the public depiction of it, seems pretty traditional: one marriage, no divorce, two kids, a relatively earnest striver making his way up the political ladder. He seems to have a decidedly practical, "no drama" bourgeois streak which he is comfortable indulging.

    Houellebecq, on the other hand, spent time as a young man in a mental hospital, has had a sexual life to rival those of his more dissolute characters, has been known to pass out drunk while being interviewed, invited various female journalists to join him and one of his earlier wives in a menage a trois, and is now, one can only hope, more settled and serene in his current marriage.

    Of course, Houellebecq is also by far the more interesting writer.

    The clean living part of Obamas identity is just a dr huxtable role for the 21st century. In reality he is a very obvious secret gay most probably married to a transgender.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    In reality he is a very obvious secret gay most probably married to a transgender.

    Unx being Unz, I can never figure out if remarks like this are in earnest or not.
  72. @black sea

    each of the men turned against one half of his childhood, Obama against the traditional/provincial side, Houellebecq against the progressive/cosmopolitan side—though each remained fluent and comfortable enough in the other idiom to consort with, and “pass” among, those who still believed in it.
     
    And yet Obama's personal life, or at least the public depiction of it, seems pretty traditional: one marriage, no divorce, two kids, a relatively earnest striver making his way up the political ladder. He seems to have a decidedly practical, "no drama" bourgeois streak which he is comfortable indulging.

    Houellebecq, on the other hand, spent time as a young man in a mental hospital, has had a sexual life to rival those of his more dissolute characters, has been known to pass out drunk while being interviewed, invited various female journalists to join him and one of his earlier wives in a menage a trois, and is now, one can only hope, more settled and serene in his current marriage.

    Of course, Houellebecq is also by far the more interesting writer.

    ‘has been known to pass out drunk while being interviewed, ‘

    I like him already.

  73. @International Jew
    Family life among the high aristocracy rarely resembles what Americans think of as a traditional nuclear family. You might say it "takes a village" to raise a Prince Philip (or Charles, Andrew...) — a village made up of their extended family plus lots of hired help.

    Perhaps it takes a boarding school?

  74. @BB753
    Whatever his upbringing, Houellebecq is culturally and socially very French, perhaps an epitome of late 20th century Frenchness. But Obama is hardly an American, half-African and raised in exotic Hawaii and Indonesia, and not even a black American. He's a rootless cosmopolitan though still an ignoramus, a former CIA toyboy asset and a freemason. Now there's a difference.
    Houellebecq and Baudelaire could have a conversation. But what does Obama and Andrew Jackson have in common?

    But what does Obama and Andrew Jackson have in common?

    Not much, but Obama and Thomas Jefferson would have got on famously.

    Obama is 100% American. He may not be the kind of American you personally like, but everything about his mannerisms, his attitudes, his speech, his unconscious arrogance, his lack of awareness that his value system is not actually “universal” is of a type, a type that is really only created and found in the US and maybe Canada. That is why Obama is so beloved by overeducated Blue State Americans – he is a typical white East Coast prep school kid but wearing a veneer of black skin.

    The only non-American thing about Obama is his weight.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Obama is 100% American

    Actually, he's post-American, like a lot of salarymen in higher education.
    , @Joe Stalin
    " He may not be the kind of American you personally like, but everything about his mannerisms, his attitudes, his speech, his unconscious arrogance, his lack of awareness that his value system is not actually “universal” is of a type, a type that is really only created and found in the US and maybe Canada."

    Teddy Roosevelt?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rRgx3hRwK4
  75. @JMcG
    Left the Communist Party after 1946 for one reason or another? What might some of those reasons be? Dunham screams commie. As does FDM. Sometimes a duck is a duck.

    Dunham screams commie.

    A furniture salesman living in an exurb of Seattle ‘screams Commie’?

    • Replies: @fnn
    Gus Hall was a real estate salesman for the last several decades of his life. Of course that was in New York City.
    , @Hibernian
    Seattle screams Commie. FIFY. I know whereof I speak because I go there on average 3 times a year to visit Mom.
  76. @Peter Akuleyev
    But what does Obama and Andrew Jackson have in common?

    Not much, but Obama and Thomas Jefferson would have got on famously.

    Obama is 100% American. He may not be the kind of American you personally like, but everything about his mannerisms, his attitudes, his speech, his unconscious arrogance, his lack of awareness that his value system is not actually "universal" is of a type, a type that is really only created and found in the US and maybe Canada. That is why Obama is so beloved by overeducated Blue State Americans - he is a typical white East Coast prep school kid but wearing a veneer of black skin.

    The only non-American thing about Obama is his weight.

    Obama is 100% American

    Actually, he’s post-American, like a lot of salarymen in higher education.

    • Agree: Desiderius, BB753
  77. @Altai
    That quote is a pretty interesting observation.

    But there are weird errors (The first addition of 8 former Warsaw pact countries along with Malta and Cyprus was in 2004 not 2002.) and errors of omission, why didn't he mention the fact that the edition of Charlie Hebdo on news stands at the time was one crudely mocking Houellebecq's powers of prediction on the cover when the attack on it's offices occurred or that the later Paris attacks matched almost perfectly the kind of attacks described in the opening of Submission? Why not mention the EU's trade deal with Brazil allowing the triff-free import of Brazilian beef despite the cost of the creation of Brazilian beef and the total lack of any need.

    I'm also not sure what competitive effect has emerged from Eastern European agricultural products, I don't know it's too significant. If anything the cheap labour it has produced has been a boone to Western European farmers. I would have thought the result would have been something like what happened to Polish industry upon entry, with Germany more than making up for differing production costs with raw centralised logic and superior production productivity and quality, leading to an increase in German industry at the expense of Poland's.

    Why not mention the EU’s trade deal with Brazil allowing the triff-free import of Brazilian beef despite the cost of the creation of Brazilian beef and the total lack of any need.

    EU accelerating the destruction of the Amazon rainforest. Haha, I thought there were people in Europe who cared about such things.

  78. @Art Deco
    Dunham screams commie.

    A furniture salesman living in an exurb of Seattle 'screams Commie'?

    Gus Hall was a real estate salesman for the last several decades of his life. Of course that was in New York City.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    'Sez who?
  79. @Crawfurdmuir

    Many banks opened at 10 and closed at 3 in those days. Ideal job for married women with kids.
     
    They opened to the public at 10 am and closed to the public at 3 pm. The staff reported to work earlier and left later - the time after closing was spent counting the tellers' tills and recording loans made or paid during the day, so that the books could be balanced daily.

    True, but banking was still more 9-4 for the employees. And the loan officers didn’t have to count the money at the end of the day. As I remember, banks had more women managers than most businesses back in the day.

  80. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    OTOH, I seem to recall that Obama’s grandparents were also some kind of stealth Commies,

    In someone's imagination. Not in the world we actually inhabit. The same sort of people fancy Sheriff Joe Arpaio had demonstrated Obama's long-form birth certificate is a forgery, fancy Obama's sire was Frank Marshall Davis, and fancy Obama is bisexual if not homosexual.

    None of those things have been truly disproven.

    I hold that when selecting a President of the United States, the onus is on the candidate to prove he is officeworthy. If we had a democracyworthy electorate, a reasonable suspicion that a candidate is other than truthfully disclosed is reason enough to say “er, let’s keep looking”.

    Obama and Clinton failed the sniff test six ways to Sunday. Bush II and Trump were not perfect, but you pretty much knew what you were getting.

    Ron Paul was probably as close to perfect as is reasonably possible. Look how far he got.

    We are not worthy. Literally we are not worthy of self-government and it will end. Empires always end this way.

    • Replies: @Anon

    Ron Paul was probably as close to perfect as is reasonably possible.
     
    Especially when he called MLK one of his heroes...
    , @Desiderius
    With W we were supposed to get humble foreign policy. Gore was the nation builder.

    Wha’ happen?
  81. @Art Deco
    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    1. Frank Marshall Davis was a friend of Stanley Dunham's. No clue where this 'best friend' meme came from.

    2. Davis arrived in Hawaii around about 1946 as an official of the west coast Longshoremen's union. Both he and Harry Bridges were Communist Party members at that time. When Stanley Dunham knew him he was running a small distributorship. Quite a mess of people left the Communist Party after 1946 for one reason or another.


    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2.

    In 1939, Madelyn Payne (later Dunham) was a high school student living in Butler County, Ks. Her father was a clerk / bookkeeper for the Sinclair Oil Co. Stanley Dunham, then 21 years of age, was living in Wichita (in Sedgwick County), working as a salesman. His maternal grandfather, whom he'd grown up with, was living in Wichita still employed as an oil field worker. His father, widowed and remarried, was living in Wichita with his 2d family working as an auto mechanic. Ralph Dunham was born, lived, and died within 50 miles of Wichita. The FBI must have had quite a lot of surplus manpower to be keeping tabs on him.

    You don’t know much about the history of socialism radicalism the labor movement and communism do you? 1

    Frank Marshal Davis was the head of the communist party of Hawaii. According to Obama’s books, Davis was grandpa Dunhams best friend and a constant presence in young Barry’s life. Davis saw Barry and grandpa Dunham several times a week and Davis indoctrinated Barry about the injustices done to blacks the third world revolutions and all the rest of it.

    When Madelyn and Stanley were young the west and mid west weren’t Republican Party strongholds. They were populist radical farmer labor party strong holds. It was partly due to Scandinavian German immigrants who were socialist anyway. Mostly due to exploitation of workers and small farmers by east coast unrestrained dog eat dog capitalism.

    Ever hear of Joe Hill Big Bill Hayden communist run CIO and even IBEW revolutionary International Workers of the World Eugene Debs William Jennings Bryan John Peter Altgeld Haymarket riots populist party Radical Reed college Montana copper miners revolutionary party Farmer Labor Party Bob LaFollete ? That was the milieu of Obamas grandparents.

    Kansas Nebraska Wisconsin Minnesota Montana Illinois all those states were full of exploited small farmers and workers looking for radical change from 1880 on Then the depression and dust bowl came along Obama’s grandparents and many midwesterners were part of that
    That sleepy Seattle suburb like Seattle, was then and still is was a gathering place for radicals from the 1880s to the present. It’s the only town in America that has a statue of Lenin.

    Anne Dunham’s local public high school was known as the Little Red School House. The school had Marxism classes. The Dunham parents raised her to be another Angela Davis Lani Guinier Lynn Stewart Kathy Boudin. White commie family boomer girls were encouraged to go after black men. Obama was their great success.

    As for Frank Davis’ friendship with Grandpa Dunham and influence on, Barry Obama, just read Obama’s autobiographies. Davis saw the Dunhams a couple times a week.

    Not all 1880s to 1960 communists, radicals and reformers were Noo Yawk Jew Ellis Islanders.
    The populists socialists radical labor unions and Farmer Labor parties were very strong in the Midwest. FDR’s depression reforms and social welfare absorbed most of them into the Democrats.

    The Dunham’s became radicals in the 1930s as many people did and kept the faith during the boring prosperous 1950s. They left Kansas for the radical milieu of Seattle and the Little Red School House. As soon as they arrived in Hawaii became fast friends with Frank Davis head of the communist party and like Lynn Stewart’s Lani Guinier’s and many commie parents, encouraged their daughter to marry a black man.

    I don’t do commas

    • Replies: @Servant of Gla'aki

    I don’t do commas
     
    You should start.
  82. @Art Deco
    The black communist Frank Marshall Davis was grandpa Dunham’s best friend. Davis was head of the official communist party of Hawaii, such as it was.

    1. Frank Marshall Davis was a friend of Stanley Dunham's. No clue where this 'best friend' meme came from.

    2. Davis arrived in Hawaii around about 1946 as an official of the west coast Longshoremen's union. Both he and Harry Bridges were Communist Party members at that time. When Stanley Dunham knew him he was running a small distributorship. Quite a mess of people left the Communist Party after 1946 for one reason or another.


    The Dunhams were under FBI surveillance from 1939 on because of the German soviet alliance pact at the beginning of WW2.

    In 1939, Madelyn Payne (later Dunham) was a high school student living in Butler County, Ks. Her father was a clerk / bookkeeper for the Sinclair Oil Co. Stanley Dunham, then 21 years of age, was living in Wichita (in Sedgwick County), working as a salesman. His maternal grandfather, whom he'd grown up with, was living in Wichita still employed as an oil field worker. His father, widowed and remarried, was living in Wichita with his 2d family working as an auto mechanic. Ralph Dunham was born, lived, and died within 50 miles of Wichita. The FBI must have had quite a lot of surplus manpower to be keeping tabs on him.

    The FBI kept track of Stanley Dunham all his life.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The FBI kept track of Stanley Dunham all his life.

    No clue where this meme originates. Again, if the FBI were 'keeping track' of a less-than-stellar late-middle-aged insurance salesman living in a condo in the Makiki neighborhood in Honolulu, the FBI has no real work to do. Will someone please point to an organization Stanley Armour Dunham ever belonged to aside from the U.S. Army and the local Unitarian congregation?
  83. @Peter Akuleyev
    But what does Obama and Andrew Jackson have in common?

    Not much, but Obama and Thomas Jefferson would have got on famously.

    Obama is 100% American. He may not be the kind of American you personally like, but everything about his mannerisms, his attitudes, his speech, his unconscious arrogance, his lack of awareness that his value system is not actually "universal" is of a type, a type that is really only created and found in the US and maybe Canada. That is why Obama is so beloved by overeducated Blue State Americans - he is a typical white East Coast prep school kid but wearing a veneer of black skin.

    The only non-American thing about Obama is his weight.

    ” He may not be the kind of American you personally like, but everything about his mannerisms, his attitudes, his speech, his unconscious arrogance, his lack of awareness that his value system is not actually “universal” is of a type, a type that is really only created and found in the US and maybe Canada.”

    Teddy Roosevelt?

  84. @RichardTaylor

    That sounds great, and it is exactly what Hillary wants. And so does Bloomberg. And Obama. Etc
     
    Actually, social and legal controls over reproduction have been the norm in the history of European and other peoples. That's why a woman having a child out of wedlock was such a big deal. Parents used to play a larger role in marriages and would steer their daughters away from families that were "bad seed", i.e. a bunch of drunks or thieves. So no, making sure a child has decent genetics and a chance at a good environment isn't some "Lefty" preoccupation. Quite the opposite.

    ” So no, making sure a child has decent genetics and a chance at a good environment isn’t some “Lefty” preoccupation. ”

    Of course it is. Haven’t you ever heard of eugenics?

    • Replies: @RichardTaylor
    So you are against making sure children get healthy genes?
  85. @Altai
    That quote is a pretty interesting observation.

    But there are weird errors (The first addition of 8 former Warsaw pact countries along with Malta and Cyprus was in 2004 not 2002.) and errors of omission, why didn't he mention the fact that the edition of Charlie Hebdo on news stands at the time was one crudely mocking Houellebecq's powers of prediction on the cover when the attack on it's offices occurred or that the later Paris attacks matched almost perfectly the kind of attacks described in the opening of Submission? Why not mention the EU's trade deal with Brazil allowing the triff-free import of Brazilian beef despite the cost of the creation of Brazilian beef and the total lack of any need.

    I'm also not sure what competitive effect has emerged from Eastern European agricultural products, I don't know it's too significant. If anything the cheap labour it has produced has been a boone to Western European farmers. I would have thought the result would have been something like what happened to Polish industry upon entry, with Germany more than making up for differing production costs with raw centralised logic and superior production productivity and quality, leading to an increase in German industry at the expense of Poland's.

    Are you posting this on the wrong thread, by chance?

  86. @Pheasant
    The clean living part of Obamas identity is just a dr huxtable role for the 21st century. In reality he is a very obvious secret gay most probably married to a transgender.

    In reality he is a very obvious secret gay most probably married to a transgender.

    Unx being Unz, I can never figure out if remarks like this are in earnest or not.

  87. @fnn
    Gus Hall was a real estate salesman for the last several decades of his life. Of course that was in New York City.

    ‘Sez who?

    • Replies: @fnn
    It used to be on a blog that's now seems to have disappeared. If it were someone else (meaning not you) I might consider doing a full-scale search.
  88. @Alden
    The FBI kept track of Stanley Dunham all his life.

    The FBI kept track of Stanley Dunham all his life.

    No clue where this meme originates. Again, if the FBI were ‘keeping track’ of a less-than-stellar late-middle-aged insurance salesman living in a condo in the Makiki neighborhood in Honolulu, the FBI has no real work to do. Will someone please point to an organization Stanley Armour Dunham ever belonged to aside from the U.S. Army and the local Unitarian congregation?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Unitarian?

    Jeez I thought he was just a commie. Now I really regret that vote.
  89. @Alden
    You don’t know much about the history of socialism radicalism the labor movement and communism do you? 1

    Frank Marshal Davis was the head of the communist party of Hawaii. According to Obama’s books, Davis was grandpa Dunhams best friend and a constant presence in young Barry’s life. Davis saw Barry and grandpa Dunham several times a week and Davis indoctrinated Barry about the injustices done to blacks the third world revolutions and all the rest of it.

    When Madelyn and Stanley were young the west and mid west weren’t Republican Party strongholds. They were populist radical farmer labor party strong holds. It was partly due to Scandinavian German immigrants who were socialist anyway. Mostly due to exploitation of workers and small farmers by east coast unrestrained dog eat dog capitalism.

    Ever hear of Joe Hill Big Bill Hayden communist run CIO and even IBEW revolutionary International Workers of the World Eugene Debs William Jennings Bryan John Peter Altgeld Haymarket riots populist party Radical Reed college Montana copper miners revolutionary party Farmer Labor Party Bob LaFollete ? That was the milieu of Obamas grandparents.

    Kansas Nebraska Wisconsin Minnesota Montana Illinois all those states were full of exploited small farmers and workers looking for radical change from 1880 on Then the depression and dust bowl came along Obama’s grandparents and many midwesterners were part of that
    That sleepy Seattle suburb like Seattle, was then and still is was a gathering place for radicals from the 1880s to the present. It’s the only town in America that has a statue of Lenin.

    Anne Dunham’s local public high school was known as the Little Red School House. The school had Marxism classes. The Dunham parents raised her to be another Angela Davis Lani Guinier Lynn Stewart Kathy Boudin. White commie family boomer girls were encouraged to go after black men. Obama was their great success.

    As for Frank Davis’ friendship with Grandpa Dunham and influence on, Barry Obama, just read Obama’s autobiographies. Davis saw the Dunhams a couple times a week.

    Not all 1880s to 1960 communists, radicals and reformers were Noo Yawk Jew Ellis Islanders.
    The populists socialists radical labor unions and Farmer Labor parties were very strong in the Midwest. FDR’s depression reforms and social welfare absorbed most of them into the Democrats.

    The Dunham’s became radicals in the 1930s as many people did and kept the faith during the boring prosperous 1950s. They left Kansas for the radical milieu of Seattle and the Little Red School House. As soon as they arrived in Hawaii became fast friends with Frank Davis head of the communist party and like Lynn Stewart’s Lani Guinier’s and many commie parents, encouraged their daughter to marry a black man.

    I don’t do commas

    I don’t do commas

    You should start.

  90. @Anonymous
    None of those things have been truly disproven.

    I hold that when selecting a President of the United States, the onus is on the candidate to prove he is officeworthy. If we had a democracyworthy electorate, a reasonable suspicion that a candidate is other than truthfully disclosed is reason enough to say “er, let’s keep looking”.

    Obama and Clinton failed the sniff test six ways to Sunday. Bush II and Trump were not perfect, but you pretty much knew what you were getting.

    Ron Paul was probably as close to perfect as is reasonably possible. Look how far he got.

    We are not worthy. Literally we are not worthy of self-government and it will end. Empires always end this way.

    Ron Paul was probably as close to perfect as is reasonably possible.

    Especially when he called MLK one of his heroes…

  91. @Anonymous
    None of those things have been truly disproven.

    I hold that when selecting a President of the United States, the onus is on the candidate to prove he is officeworthy. If we had a democracyworthy electorate, a reasonable suspicion that a candidate is other than truthfully disclosed is reason enough to say “er, let’s keep looking”.

    Obama and Clinton failed the sniff test six ways to Sunday. Bush II and Trump were not perfect, but you pretty much knew what you were getting.

    Ron Paul was probably as close to perfect as is reasonably possible. Look how far he got.

    We are not worthy. Literally we are not worthy of self-government and it will end. Empires always end this way.

    With W we were supposed to get humble foreign policy. Gore was the nation builder.

    Wha’ happen?

  92. @Art Deco
    The FBI kept track of Stanley Dunham all his life.

    No clue where this meme originates. Again, if the FBI were 'keeping track' of a less-than-stellar late-middle-aged insurance salesman living in a condo in the Makiki neighborhood in Honolulu, the FBI has no real work to do. Will someone please point to an organization Stanley Armour Dunham ever belonged to aside from the U.S. Army and the local Unitarian congregation?

    Unitarian?

    Jeez I thought he was just a commie. Now I really regret that vote.

  93. @Art Deco
    'Sez who?

    It used to be on a blog that’s now seems to have disappeared. If it were someone else (meaning not you) I might consider doing a full-scale search.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    It’s a rare blind spot of his. Usually he’s very diligent about obtaining a thorough command of the facts at hand.

    I get the sense that the smart money is on just letting Obama fade into the sunset and pretending he didn’t really happen. High risk strategy.
  94. Cf. Tucker Carlson

    “Carlson’s mother was artist Lisa McNear (née Lombardi). He also has a brother, Buckley Peck Carlson (later, Buckley Swanson Peck Carlson), who is nearly two years younger and was born two months premature.[7]

    In 1976, Carlson’s parents divorced after the nine-year marriage reportedly “turned sour.”[7][8] Carlson’s father was granted custody of him and his brother. Carlson would later claim that his mother left the family when he was six, wanting to pursue a “bohemian” lifestyle.[9][4] She eventually split her time between Beaufort County, South Carolina and Cazac, France, where she had little contact with Carlson’s family and later married artist Michael Vaughn.[10][11][12][13]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_Carlson#Early_life_and_education

    • Thanks: Desiderius
  95. @Twodees Partain
    " So no, making sure a child has decent genetics and a chance at a good environment isn’t some “Lefty” preoccupation. "

    Of course it is. Haven't you ever heard of eugenics?

    So you are against making sure children get healthy genes?

  96. @fnn
    It used to be on a blog that's now seems to have disappeared. If it were someone else (meaning not you) I might consider doing a full-scale search.

    It’s a rare blind spot of his. Usually he’s very diligent about obtaining a thorough command of the facts at hand.

    I get the sense that the smart money is on just letting Obama fade into the sunset and pretending he didn’t really happen. High risk strategy.

  97. @Triumph104
    Prince Philip's upbringing was similar but worse. He was born in Greece and grew up in France, Germany, and Britain, raised mainly by British relatives.

    At age seven, he was living with his maternal grandmother and uncle. Soon his four sisters all married and moved to Germany with their German husbands, two of whom would fight for the Nazi's. During his teens, one of Prince Philip's sisters, her husband and two children died in an air crash. The next year his uncle, and guardian, died.

    Prince Philip's father lived in Monte Carlo with a lady friend and his mother was placed in a Swiss asylum after being diagnosed with schizophrenia. After her release, his mother moved to Greece where she sheltered Jewish refugees during the war. After the war she founded a Greek Orthodox order of nuns.

    https://youtu.be/rnbM0cGUTAU

    Wasn’t the Greek royal house originally a branch of the Danish royal house, and put on the throne by the British?

  98. @Reg Cæsar

    Tennessee’s Sexually Oriented Business Licensing Board.
     
    WTF?

    her fiancé Chuck Pankow
     
    Any relation to James of Chicago, who also can blow up a storm, albeit in a different sense?

    Potential titles:

    You're My Inspiration
    Look Away
    Make Me Smile


    38 or 24 to 36
    Does Anybody Really Know What Climax Is?
    Questions 67, 68, and 69


    Saturday in the Park

    S.O.B.L.B. may seem more California than Tennessee, but it may be an attempt to keep that type of “business” under control.

  99. @Art Deco
    Dunham screams commie.

    A furniture salesman living in an exurb of Seattle 'screams Commie'?

    Seattle screams Commie. FIFY. I know whereof I speak because I go there on average 3 times a year to visit Mom.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS