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The Chief White House Correspondent of the New York Times snarks:

In other words:

1. It’s crazy for Trump to want Americans to be increasingly allowed out of the house to buy plants for their gardens or walk on the beach or cut hair.

2. It’s crazy for Trump not to want to let in more immigrants at the moment, what with all the jobs Americans just don’t want to do.

 
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  1. He finally found his Pen and his Phone!

    • Agree: Dano
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    On Our Uncle’s birthday, no less. What a slice of morale to the troops. Let’s hope he jails the judge that tries to block it.

    This was day one stuff, but I’ll settle for day 1200.

    Cautiously optimistic.
  2. Considering what has happened and what will be happening due to Covid, this will be a flea bite. But it will produce much political distraction, which is the main purpose.

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    You likely have your cause and effect backwards.

    Likely Trump has wanted to do this since year 1 when a Republican Congress spurned him. He had legal and political advisors telling him the legality will be challenged and the politics aren’t great. Now they are. I have already seen a few Republican “constitutionalists “ bemoaning this order. But they'll be drown out.

    Trump’s using this crisis to get something for the hardcore base, some of which are getting frustrated with this shutdown.
    , @Known Fact
    This is just a warm-up for the ultimate looming political distraction -- and its name is RBG
    , @Anonymous
    I dont know, 2020 will be the smallest number of immigrants permitted to enter and settle in The United States for 2 or 3 decades. Possibly fewer than 200K with a similar number deported or voluntarily departing, dying etc.

    There will be a clear trend towards stable sustainable populations in the rich nations of northern Europe, North America, Australia New Zealand . A new embrace of the suburban lifestyle, working at home when possible. Particularly young white women who are more risk averse about threats of crime disease etc.
  3. What a simple, reasoned explanation, statement of intent. No hemming, hawing, misdirection, hesitation, obfuscation.

    A great start. More of this, and more straight talk. What a breath of fresh air.

    Gives a lie to the bs that we just can’t talk about certain things.

    • Agree: Dano
    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    He finally realized that if he wanted to win re-election, he had to actually DO a little something, instead of just insulting the media.
  4. Steve, could you have even imagined a day like this would come?

  5. Way to go, Mr. President. Let’s see how the corporate puppet masters respond to Ms. Pelosi and Mr. McConnell now. “Waaaaaa, we want our cheap labor!!!!!!”

  6. One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven’t yet adjusted to permanent residence.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who’ve applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven’t been issued with official documents due to visa caps.

    What happens to these two groups of people?

    • Replies: @Tusk
    Deport them.
    , @Mr. Anon

    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven’t yet adjusted to permanent residence.
     
    They're welcome to go home, if they want.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who’ve applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven’t been issued with official documents due to visa caps.
     
    Don't issue them documents and don't let them in.

    What happens to these two groups of people?
     
    What happened to the millions of Americans who lost their jobs in the last month?

    Nobody in power seemed too concerned about them before casually throwing them out of work.
    , @V. Hickel
    A. who cares?

    B. I dont imagine that either of these groups would be affected
    , @MBlanc46
    They can just go home?
  7. Anonymous[120] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve Sailer:

    “But Think of the Economy!”

    Considering that the U.S is now the global hot spot of the coronavirus, this makes no sense. It is the rest of the World that should create laws to protect them from Americans immigrating there

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    This is why Trump's proclamation is basically meaningless, this is just more theater for the masses (although, granted, a smart political move to get liberals to stay stupid things). There is just no push at the moment from immigrants to get into the US. If anything, people who have foreign passports should be trying to leave.

    The real test will be when the economy starts humming again in 12 months.
    , @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Considering that the U.S is now the global hot spot of the coronavirus, this makes no sense. It is the rest of the World that should create laws to protect them from Americans immigrating there
     
    If I want to live in a foreign country, walk around ankle deep in litter and eat mysterious glop the rest of my life I'll just move to Queens.
  8. Trump showing once again that while he will often disappoint us, there are moments when, perhaps under the influence of Miller, or a residue of past association with Sessions, he will do the right thing.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    perhaps under the influence of Miller
     
    He seems more like Pabst Blue Ribbon guy to me, but Miller High Life puts me in mind of a good song to commemorate the occasion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adw772km7PQ
  9. It puts the Democrats in an interesting position.

    Are they going to oppose this move? It’s hard to see how they would accept it, even if, politically, opposing it would be a disaster.

    The Dems are trying to put every death from Covid at Trump’s door. But they may well be in a position in which they can’t oppose immigration even though it almost certainly would worsen the covid problem.

    A possible additional problem for the Dems is that it may well be found out that immigrant communities, and especially illegal immigrant communities, are becoming hotbeds of covid. That seems to be happening in Singapore, I gather.

    Wretched refuse doesn’t seem so inspiring if it’s bringing in disease and death.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    But they may well be in a position in which they can’t oppose immigration even though it almost certainly would worsen the covid problem.
     
    How does it worsen the covid problem?
    , @Hypnotoad666
    It will be interesting to see how long "temporary" lasts.
    , @FPD72
    The outbreaks at the Smithfield plants and other meat processors in the Midwest is almost certainly fueled by immigrants, although the ignition source for Smithfield may well have been some of their Chinese owners who snuck into the country after the China travel ban went into effect.

    Throughout the Midwest, towns were promised economic bounties if they permitted slaughter houses and other meat processing facilities. Instead, illegal aliens got many of the jobs and the communities got stuck with increased crime and the bill for educational, medical, and social services for the workers’ families. The smart towns were the ones who took a hard pass.
  10. And now here come the loopholes

    • Agree: V. Hickel
    • Replies: @Hail

    here come the loopholes
     
    The wording tips the hand that it's another stunt to get the 2016 base/enthusiasm back:

    temporarily suspend immigration into the United States
     
    Prediction: Add this to a list of similar vague but huge promises that sound good but never quite pann out. I hope I am wrong. There are very many of these. The original big one was, "They have to go back."

    The words 'temporarily,' 'suspend,' and 'immigration' can all be defined any way they want, quickly making the whole thing as rapidly deflatable a balloon as the Coronavirus-Panic itself is set to be.

    So it's possibly another reality-TV plot twist, a long way from a stern policy commitment to a (badly needed) Immigration Moratorium.

  11. All hail the God Emperor!

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Dissident
    https://i.imgur.com/LwGmdOF.gif
    http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/34/768x1092/gallery-1439844171-esq0804covtx-trump-donald.jpg

    Too soon, to be sure, for us to celebrate. But how long before the tears start flowing from Our Lady of Liberty? And will The Honorable Mr. Schumer join her again? I'm starting to choke-up just at the thought...
  12. anon[182] • Disclaimer says:

    Tomatoes won’t be rotting in the fields … in Mexico. Perhaps there’s some way we could import fresh food across the southern border, while leaving people in their home towns down there to work?

    Maybe there’s some way we could teach Americans to code, rather than rely on importing Indians?

    Yah, I know, crazy talk!

    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    Maybe there’s some way we could teach Americans to code, rather than rely on importing Indians?
     
    I'm sure all the recently unemployed journalists could take to coding like fish take to water.
  13. Sounds like a great idea to me. The many open border supporters who will be outraged will show their true colors as they complain about putting America and Americans first.

    I wonder though if this includes tourists too.
    As we move into the summer months the tourist dependent places will probably start screaming to let foreign visitors back in. As Trump’s own properties continue to lose money, I have to wonder how long he will stick to his guns.

    • Replies: @Kaz
    A lot of tourism in the US is internal, not sure how they're going to manage that with the way everyone is scared.

    New Zealand have already accepted there will be no tourism in 2020. They've gone the path of eradicating the disease in their borders since they caught it before it went critical. The perks of being an isolated sparsely populated island..

    But, they can't afford loosening restrictions until the disease is fully gone which may be years from now with this strategy... They're not aiming to flatten any curve or herd immunity..

    Seems kinda overkill for a disease that naturally wouldn't affect them much to begin with but I guess we'll see in a few months who was right...
    , @Bill Jones
    " As Trump’s own properties continue to lose money, I have to wonder how long he will stick to his guns."

    I think if presented properly he could spin it wonderfully.

    "I am doing this because it is the right thing for America! I am (unlike my predecessor) willing to leave the Presidency a poorer man because I view the Presidency as an opportunity for service not personal enrichment!

    My Legacy will be one of putting America First!"
  14. Anon[130] • Disclaimer says:

    Stability test results of the virus here:

    https://www.scribd.com/document/456897616/DHSST#download&from_embed

    The virus lives longer at lower humidity and at lower temperatures. As for sunlight, it reduced Covid-19 to undetectable levels in just 3 minutes in the midday sun. The virus suspended in saliva was 90% gone in simulated full sunlight in 10 minutes. The authors say transmission during daytime outdoors is lower risk.

    I wonder if active city nightlife spread a lot of Covid-19? Subways don’t get sunlight, so they have to be cleaned very thoroughly.

    • Agree: Dano
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A problem with sunlight is shade. For example, if a cubical box is delivered to my front porch at 1pm, the top and south side of the 6 sided box will get hit by the sun, if the sun is out (which has been remarkably seldom for the last 6 weeks in L.A., but that's about over). But not the bottom or the north or east sides of the box.
    , @Steve Johnson
    Almost all subway lines get exposed to sunlight; for the most part they only run below ground in Manhattan and the parts of the line in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Queens are all above ground.

    The exception is the Times Square / Grand Central shuttle and the C, E and R trains.

    The worst subway line for spreading the virus - the 7 train - runs above ground for most of its route.
  15. In Germany, Asylum is exempt from all border closings. The fundamental right to Asylum, for millions, is untouchable.
    What will be the exceptions to a moratorium in the US?
    @Steve, the moratorium takes advantage of the short term panic. Media, politicians, cause short term panic to enforce the shutdown discipline. Repression of news to the contrary, of suffering people, businesses, etc are always supressed.
    On the other hand, there is long term optimism. Why should there be less need for lockdowns in 2 months? Except for summer weather miracle, why would there be less corinavirus around? And the long duration is also repressed, rarely do media and politicians talk about lockdowns until march 2021.

    • Replies: @Hail

    @Steve, the moratorium takes advantage of the short term panic. Media, politicians, cause short term panic to enforce the shutdown discipline.
     
    Why did DJT do an announcement/move/stunt like this only on April 20? Why not March 20, for example, with CoronaPanic young and fresh?

    By April 20, if DJT has halfway competent advisers, and if the crazed, Rasputin-like shutdown-fanatic Fauci no longer runs the show, Trump will know that the coronavirus pandemic is effectively over, is long past its peak, whatever it was.

    He ought not need any advisers to tell him that there was effectively an opportunistic coup d'etat attempt with this virus, which largely succeeded. All that's left to do is score points off the crisis and take advantage of the lingering impression that there is an ongoing crisis, possibly enforced by the media, as this whole insane and surreal episdoe has been all along. In other words, while Coronavirus Coverage has always been 'prolefeed' to an extent, now it is "super-deluxe prolefeed." omething people in the know will increasingly be aware is fake, a series of cynical attempts all around to gain points over rivals. Few or none will be issuing apologies for ruining so many lives for nothing.

    Another unexpected negative here that occurs to me: Ironically this gets some core-Trump-2016 people in favor of continuing the National Emergency and the insane Shutdowns, which we so badly need to lift.

  16. @JohnnyWalker123
    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven't yet adjusted to permanent residence.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who've applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven't been issued with official documents due to visa caps.

    What happens to these two groups of people?

    Deport them.

    • Agree: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Easier said than done. Silicon Valley has a swarm of lobbyists in DC, with their fangs in both parties. If Trump can get them to relinquish their H-1b workforce, that'd be remarkable.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't know if such a proposal can move forward in this political atmosphere.

    Of course, considering the type of unemployment we have in this country, you'd think that it'd be common sense to offer H-1b jobs up to Americans.

    I'm skeptical he'll do that, but we'll see.

    If Trump does decide to void all approved green card petitions for H-1bs transitioning to permanent residence, that'd do a lot to Re-Americanize the software workforce.
  17. @truthman
    Trump showing once again that while he will often disappoint us, there are moments when, perhaps under the influence of Miller, or a residue of past association with Sessions, he will do the right thing.

    perhaps under the influence of Miller

    He seems more like Pabst Blue Ribbon guy to me, but Miller High Life puts me in mind of a good song to commemorate the occasion.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Ha! Nobody else got that, or nobody else has got any LOLs left either?
  18. This reminds me of that time he ended birthright citizenship.

    • Agree: More R1b, Less H1B
    • LOL: BB753, MBlanc46
  19. @Anon
    Stability test results of the virus here:

    https://www.scribd.com/document/456897616/DHSST#download&from_embed

    The virus lives longer at lower humidity and at lower temperatures. As for sunlight, it reduced Covid-19 to undetectable levels in just 3 minutes in the midday sun. The virus suspended in saliva was 90% gone in simulated full sunlight in 10 minutes. The authors say transmission during daytime outdoors is lower risk.

    I wonder if active city nightlife spread a lot of Covid-19? Subways don't get sunlight, so they have to be cleaned very thoroughly.

    A problem with sunlight is shade. For example, if a cubical box is delivered to my front porch at 1pm, the top and south side of the 6 sided box will get hit by the sun, if the sun is out (which has been remarkably seldom for the last 6 weeks in L.A., but that’s about over). But not the bottom or the north or east sides of the box.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Put your package inside one of these.

    http://www.massagesupplies.com/images/products/8057/UVC-C_8057.jpg

    Then go wash your hands because you touched that package. Then wash your hands again because you touched the faucet handle. Then wash the handle. Then wash your hands again.

    Better yet, just hire a contractor to build a giant version of an ultraviolet sterilizer box around your entire house.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    A problem with sunlight is shade. For example, if a cubical box is delivered to my front porch at 1pm, the top and south side of the 6 sided box will get hit by the sun, if the sun is out (which has been remarkably seldom for the last 6 weeks in L.A., but that’s about over). But not the bottom or the north or east sides of the box.
     
    This won't be a problem in Honolulu on May 26th or July 15th:


    Lahaina Noon - when the sun is directly overhead and makes things look like a bad videogame

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7J3E4wNDNZo


    But Think of the Economy!
     
    As in, "Put the Wall Street Journal over her face and do it for the economy"?
    , @captflee
    Ronco brand clockwork package reception turntables for our porches, with a heavily salted Microban surface?
  20. In light of the refusal of numerous officials at the federal, state, and local levels to enforce the nation’s laws on immigration, I will be signing an Executive Order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States! This order will be in effect until we, as a nation, have corrected this deliberate obstruction of the nation’s laws and law enforcement agencies. Our first priority must be to protect our American citizens and the Rule of Law.

    I would have preferred this. In 2017.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    Trump:

    1. Will be the president who does the most for the phrase "October surprise" and "Election year surprise".

    2. Waited until those on the fence would be convinced this was an OK thing. Friggin' Joe Biden's handlers were criticizing Trump for not doing it enough.

    The D's will wail about this, but it will only making them seem insane at this point.
  21. Anonymous[169] • Disclaimer says:

    America First Senate candidate Jeff Sessions called for an immigration moratorium while on Tucker’s show last week.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    I saw that. It's nice that the Donald finally listened to the man who, more than anybody else in Washington D.C., helped him in to the White House.

    And - as I'm sure Dr. Anthony Fasci would agree - the immigration moratorium cannot be lifted until there is not one single detectable virus particle anywhere within the borders of the U.S.
  22. Do you hear that sound? No, it’s not Pacific waves crashing ashore. It’s injunction papers issuing from the Ninth Circuit.

    • Agree: Polynikes
    • LOL: Daniel Williams
    • Replies: @vhrm

    Do you hear that sound? No, it’s not Pacific waves crashing ashore. It’s injunction papers issuing from the Ninth Circuit.
     
    I have no idea what the basis will be, but if the past 3 years are any indication you're probably right.

    ---

    That said, H1B (like H2B) are non-immigrant visas.
    So they could continue just as before in terms of undermining pay, except now (at least while this is in effect) it might not be able to convert to Green cards.

    Overall i think this'll just mean worse people on H1Bs.

    Also, this is going to be a real kick in the nuts for a lot of people currently on an h1b hoping to apply for a green card. I'm in favor of restricting immigration (especially the illegal border crossing kind) and reforming some of the rest, but changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.

  23. @black sea

    In light of the refusal of numerous officials at the federal, state, and local levels to enforce the nation's laws on immigration, I will be signing an Executive Order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States! This order will be in effect until we, as a nation, have corrected this deliberate obstruction of the nation's laws and law enforcement agencies. Our first priority must be to protect our American citizens and the Rule of Law.

     

    I would have preferred this. In 2017.

    Trump:

    1. Will be the president who does the most for the phrase “October surprise” and “Election year surprise”.

    2. Waited until those on the fence would be convinced this was an OK thing. Friggin’ Joe Biden’s handlers were criticizing Trump for not doing it enough.

    The D’s will wail about this, but it will only making them seem insane at this point.

  24. Anonymous[169] • Disclaimer says:
    @candid_observer
    It puts the Democrats in an interesting position.

    Are they going to oppose this move? It's hard to see how they would accept it, even if, politically, opposing it would be a disaster.

    The Dems are trying to put every death from Covid at Trump's door. But they may well be in a position in which they can't oppose immigration even though it almost certainly would worsen the covid problem.

    A possible additional problem for the Dems is that it may well be found out that immigrant communities, and especially illegal immigrant communities, are becoming hotbeds of covid. That seems to be happening in Singapore, I gather.

    Wretched refuse doesn't seem so inspiring if it's bringing in disease and death.

    But they may well be in a position in which they can’t oppose immigration even though it almost certainly would worsen the covid problem.

    How does it worsen the covid problem?

    • Replies: @The Real and Original David
    Immigration is a major vector of all diseases.
  25. @notsaying
    Sounds like a great idea to me. The many open border supporters who will be outraged will show their true colors as they complain about putting America and Americans first.

    I wonder though if this includes tourists too.
    As we move into the summer months the tourist dependent places will probably start screaming to let foreign visitors back in. As Trump's own properties continue to lose money, I have to wonder how long he will stick to his guns.

    A lot of tourism in the US is internal, not sure how they’re going to manage that with the way everyone is scared.

    New Zealand have already accepted there will be no tourism in 2020. They’ve gone the path of eradicating the disease in their borders since they caught it before it went critical. The perks of being an isolated sparsely populated island..

    But, they can’t afford loosening restrictions until the disease is fully gone which may be years from now with this strategy… They’re not aiming to flatten any curve or herd immunity..

    Seems kinda overkill for a disease that naturally wouldn’t affect them much to begin with but I guess we’ll see in a few months who was right…

    • Replies: @Cowboy Shaw
    NZ's libs are besides themselves with how brilliant they are and how Jacinda is the greatest leader in the history of the world (that is scarcely an exageration). Many others are not so sure, and disquiet is certainly there and growing. Has the govt cratered the economy unnecessarily? We will see.

    One silver lining is that the out of control international tourism industry that was despoiling so much of the country will get a haircut, and NZers will actually be able to see some of the best spots themselves now. It is remarkable how many kiwis have not been to the places that overseas tourists tend to go.
  26. @Steve Sailer
    A problem with sunlight is shade. For example, if a cubical box is delivered to my front porch at 1pm, the top and south side of the 6 sided box will get hit by the sun, if the sun is out (which has been remarkably seldom for the last 6 weeks in L.A., but that's about over). But not the bottom or the north or east sides of the box.

    Put your package inside one of these.

    Then go wash your hands because you touched that package. Then wash your hands again because you touched the faucet handle. Then wash the handle. Then wash your hands again.

    Better yet, just hire a contractor to build a giant version of an ultraviolet sterilizer box around your entire house.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Thanks: Abe
    • Replies: @Known Fact
    ... Then go wash your hands because you touched that package. Then wash your hands again because you touched the faucet handle. Then wash the handle. Then wash your hands again.

    At last, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder is finally getting the respect it deserves
    , @Intelligent Dasein
    Hi Buzz,

    I don't ordinarily like to criticize others' opinions by referring them back to their supposed personality traits. It's a bad habit easily abused, and I definitely dislike it when other people do it to me. However, there are moments when you just have to call a spade a spade.

    You'll notice that among those still pimping or at least excusing the CoronaPanic, apart from the rapidly dwindling number of true believers, two types of personalities predominate: 1) The braggarts with an authoritarian streak who have found a convenient cudgel with which to slap everyone else around---these are the people who will always do what "the power" is doing; and 2) The good-boy/quants who see the world through the narrow lens of mathematical models and who embrace the current episode as a golden opportunity to show off their typically unillustrious skill sets (e.g. Fauci, Steve, Ron, and several commenters who shall remain nameless).

    Of course, the good-boy and the braggart are really the same thing under different aspects, so I guess it's actually just one personality type, but it isn't the one that's needed in the public sphere. Anybody who felt a true sense of responsibility to his society must be responsible for his entire society, for all of its members (in the Pauline sense) and their gestalt functioning. Crippling lockdowns like what we're experiencing never should have been on the table, ever. The whole idea bespeaks a total lack of leadership and a pathetic shallowness of understanding, not only of virology and economics but of human beings too.
    , @danand

    “ultraviolet sterilizer box around your entire house”
     
    Mr. Mohawk, coming into your home, and mine, soon. While it’s “visiting” and performing its disinfection duties; it may as well have a look 👀 around, for you and yours protection.

    https://youtu.be/1PEMrz9fZm4

    https://www.medgadget.com/2020/04/worlds-first-indoor-disinfection-drone-ready-to-fight-covid-19.html
  27. Hail says: • Website
    @Impolitic
    And now here come the loopholes

    here come the loopholes

    The wording tips the hand that it’s another stunt to get the 2016 base/enthusiasm back:

    temporarily suspend immigration into the United States

    Prediction: Add this to a list of similar vague but huge promises that sound good but never quite pann out. I hope I am wrong. There are very many of these. The original big one was, “They have to go back.”

    The words ‘temporarily,’ ‘suspend,’ and ‘immigration’ can all be defined any way they want, quickly making the whole thing as rapidly deflatable a balloon as the Coronavirus-Panic itself is set to be.

    So it’s possibly another reality-TV plot twist, a long way from a stern policy commitment to a (badly needed) Immigration Moratorium.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    The words ‘temporarily,’ ‘suspend,’ and ‘immigration’ can all be defined any way they want, quickly making the whole thing as rapidly deflatable a balloon as the Coronavirus-Panic itself is set to be.
     
    Agreed.

    BTW, SARS-CoV-2 (Corona-chan) is turning out to be the Comet Kohoutek of viruses.

    In 1973, the world and all of us amateur astronomers got all hyped up about an approaching comet that was going to be spectacular. It turned out to be a dud. Nevertheless, I was able to photograph it on High Speed Ektachrome from the top of the mountain ridge behind my house.

    , @Mr. Anon

    Prediction: Add this to a list of similar vague but huge promises that sound good but never quite pann out. I hope I am wrong. There are very many of these. The original big one was, “They have to go back.”
     
    Indeed. Remember the promised executive order to end birthright citizenship back in the fall of 2018? It's not like we can really trust Trump anymore.
  28. Hail says: • Website
    @Sincerity.net
    In Germany, Asylum is exempt from all border closings. The fundamental right to Asylum, for millions, is untouchable.
    What will be the exceptions to a moratorium in the US?
    @Steve, the moratorium takes advantage of the short term panic. Media, politicians, cause short term panic to enforce the shutdown discipline. Repression of news to the contrary, of suffering people, businesses, etc are always supressed.
    On the other hand, there is long term optimism. Why should there be less need for lockdowns in 2 months? Except for summer weather miracle, why would there be less corinavirus around? And the long duration is also repressed, rarely do media and politicians talk about lockdowns until march 2021.

    @Steve, the moratorium takes advantage of the short term panic. Media, politicians, cause short term panic to enforce the shutdown discipline.

    Why did DJT do an announcement/move/stunt like this only on April 20? Why not March 20, for example, with CoronaPanic young and fresh?

    By April 20, if DJT has halfway competent advisers, and if the crazed, Rasputin-like shutdown-fanatic Fauci no longer runs the show, Trump will know that the coronavirus pandemic is effectively over, is long past its peak, whatever it was.

    He ought not need any advisers to tell him that there was effectively an opportunistic coup d’etat attempt with this virus, which largely succeeded. All that’s left to do is score points off the crisis and take advantage of the lingering impression that there is an ongoing crisis, possibly enforced by the media, as this whole insane and surreal episdoe has been all along. In other words, while Coronavirus Coverage has always been ‘prolefeed’ to an extent, now it is “super-deluxe prolefeed.” omething people in the know will increasingly be aware is fake, a series of cynical attempts all around to gain points over rivals. Few or none will be issuing apologies for ruining so many lives for nothing.

    Another unexpected negative here that occurs to me: Ironically this gets some core-Trump-2016 people in favor of continuing the National Emergency and the insane Shutdowns, which we so badly need to lift.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Why did DJT do an announcement/move/stunt like this only on April 20? Why not March 20, for example, with CoronaPanic young and fresh?
     
    Momentum. ON March 20th the D's screams of racism/panic would have had enough of a receptive audience to hurt him.

    Now Joe Biden's handler's just ran an ad criticizing Trump for not banning China travel sooner.

    It was time.
    , @Dave Pinsen

    Another unexpected negative here that occurs to me: Ironically this gets some core-Trump-2016 people in favor of continuing the National Emergency and the insane Shutdowns, which we so badly need to lift.
     
    You don't need the shutdowns to justify the immigration moratorium: the >20% unemployment rate will justify it.

    When that unemployment rate comes down, and wages start to rise, you justify the immigration moratorium based on that ("Working Americans are finally getting raises after the 'invisible enemy' caused the worst unemployment since the Great Depression - now's not the time to take our foot off the gas.").
    , @sayless
    They never, ever, apologize for the lives they've ruined. That would mean admitting that they didn't have our best interests at heart after all.
  29. @Deadite
    All hail the God Emperor!

    Too soon, to be sure, for us to celebrate. But how long before the tears start flowing from Our Lady of Liberty? And will The Honorable Mr. Schumer join her again? I’m starting to choke-up just at the thought…

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    That "Are You A Traitor?" headline next to Trump's head looks damn prescient in hindsight.
    , @alt right moderate
    Trump and the Chinacons are still preferable to Bush and the neocons, but I find it a little ironic how Trump has got strongly behind the FANG led equities boom.

    Apparently one of the key Chinacons that helped bring Trump into power was John Paulson, who happened to be one of the key figures that bought down the banksters who were behind the sub-prime fiasco. Surely he should be able to see the looming dangers in tying ones flag to the current equity bubble around over-inflated growth stocks, share buy-backs, and massive corporate debt.
  30. @Hail

    here come the loopholes
     
    The wording tips the hand that it's another stunt to get the 2016 base/enthusiasm back:

    temporarily suspend immigration into the United States
     
    Prediction: Add this to a list of similar vague but huge promises that sound good but never quite pann out. I hope I am wrong. There are very many of these. The original big one was, "They have to go back."

    The words 'temporarily,' 'suspend,' and 'immigration' can all be defined any way they want, quickly making the whole thing as rapidly deflatable a balloon as the Coronavirus-Panic itself is set to be.

    So it's possibly another reality-TV plot twist, a long way from a stern policy commitment to a (badly needed) Immigration Moratorium.

    The words ‘temporarily,’ ‘suspend,’ and ‘immigration’ can all be defined any way they want, quickly making the whole thing as rapidly deflatable a balloon as the Coronavirus-Panic itself is set to be.

    Agreed.

    BTW, SARS-CoV-2 (Corona-chan) is turning out to be the Comet Kohoutek of viruses.

    In 1973, the world and all of us amateur astronomers got all hyped up about an approaching comet that was going to be spectacular. It turned out to be a dud. Nevertheless, I was able to photograph it on High Speed Ektachrome from the top of the mountain ridge behind my house.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    <>
    BTW, SARS-CoV-2 (Corona-chan) is turning out to be the Comet Kohoutek of viruses.

    In 1973, the world and all of us amateur astronomers got all hyped up about an approaching comet that was going to be spectacular. It turned out to be a dud.
    <>

    Yes, but without it, it is unlikely we ever would have gotten Lucifer's Hammer. : )

    Which leads me to ask: didn't Steve Sailer know Jerry Pournelle? If so, are there any stories he could share?

    (Also: am I the only one who happens to be reading LH at the moment?)
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Comet West around that time but maybe a year or two later, Buzz, was the REAL DEAL. The tail was something like 15 deg. long, and the head was mag.0 or brighter- going by memory alone here. You could see parts of it through sun-up. Thank you for bringing back this astronomical blast from the past Solar System.
  31. @Hail

    @Steve, the moratorium takes advantage of the short term panic. Media, politicians, cause short term panic to enforce the shutdown discipline.
     
    Why did DJT do an announcement/move/stunt like this only on April 20? Why not March 20, for example, with CoronaPanic young and fresh?

    By April 20, if DJT has halfway competent advisers, and if the crazed, Rasputin-like shutdown-fanatic Fauci no longer runs the show, Trump will know that the coronavirus pandemic is effectively over, is long past its peak, whatever it was.

    He ought not need any advisers to tell him that there was effectively an opportunistic coup d'etat attempt with this virus, which largely succeeded. All that's left to do is score points off the crisis and take advantage of the lingering impression that there is an ongoing crisis, possibly enforced by the media, as this whole insane and surreal episdoe has been all along. In other words, while Coronavirus Coverage has always been 'prolefeed' to an extent, now it is "super-deluxe prolefeed." omething people in the know will increasingly be aware is fake, a series of cynical attempts all around to gain points over rivals. Few or none will be issuing apologies for ruining so many lives for nothing.

    Another unexpected negative here that occurs to me: Ironically this gets some core-Trump-2016 people in favor of continuing the National Emergency and the insane Shutdowns, which we so badly need to lift.

    Why did DJT do an announcement/move/stunt like this only on April 20? Why not March 20, for example, with CoronaPanic young and fresh?

    Momentum. ON March 20th the D’s screams of racism/panic would have had enough of a receptive audience to hurt him.

    Now Joe Biden’s handler’s just ran an ad criticizing Trump for not banning China travel sooner.

    It was time.

  32. Anonymous[184] • Disclaimer says:

    Vintage Trump !!!!!

    A Master Stroke!

    A Master Stroke I tell you !!!!!!

    😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

  33. Anonymous[205] • Disclaimer says:

    Good old Donald !!!!!!

    Sticking it to The Economist editorial board since 2016.

    Ha ha ha.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://www.twitter.com/jeffsessions/status/1252447444908027904
    , @MBlanc46
    And the Economist will be getting their revenge on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. The penalties for us collaborators will be severe.
  34. @rational actor
    He finally found his Pen and his Phone!

    On Our Uncle’s birthday, no less. What a slice of morale to the troops. Let’s hope he jails the judge that tries to block it.

    This was day one stuff, but I’ll settle for day 1200.

    Cautiously optimistic.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    On Our Uncle’s birthday, no less.
     
    You don't mean...?



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/01/11/Adolf_Hitler_und_Hermann_Goring_trans%2B%2B_01geUMvhhqXYj_tJM1bT4JpN1butCYh4PSmYUxIH9Q.jpg
  35. @JohnnyWalker123
    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven't yet adjusted to permanent residence.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who've applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven't been issued with official documents due to visa caps.

    What happens to these two groups of people?

    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven’t yet adjusted to permanent residence.

    They’re welcome to go home, if they want.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who’ve applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven’t been issued with official documents due to visa caps.

    Don’t issue them documents and don’t let them in.

    What happens to these two groups of people?

    What happened to the millions of Americans who lost their jobs in the last month?

    Nobody in power seemed too concerned about them before casually throwing them out of work.

    • Replies: @Anonymous


    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven’t yet adjusted to permanent residence.
     
    They’re welcome to go home, if they want.
     
    Pay the struggling airlines to fly them home. Same with the illegal aliens.

    Planes are empty. Fuel is at historic lows.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Well, what I mean is this.

    If an H-1b is waiting for a green card (after having been approved), would the green card then be rescinded and the H-1b visa status cancelled?

    If that's the case, then an immigration moratorium isn't enough. You'd have to have deportations + moratorium. If you didn't do that, you'd just have a permanent army of H-1bs on your territory.

    So I think Trump's proposal has to be fleshed out a little bit.
  36. I understand he is also going to build a great big wall along the southern border.

    And he is going to build Atlantic City’s greatest casino… Oh, he did already. It was “Tremendous!”

    Trump Champagne is Tremendous too. Tremendously Terrible at Fifty Bucks. Tremendously acidic. We bought a bottle for some holiday or other, earlier this year. It is a rosé (!) and it is garbage.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    During today's White House presser, the Corps of Engineers general said 164 miles of the border war have been built.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Right, Buzz. President Trump is mostly just a bullshitter. He may very well mean what he wrote, but that doesn't mean a damn thing. He'll tweet something different, maybe in complete contradiction to this, next week. Even if he does that, nothing will be done, because he doesn't follow through. They'll be complaints that "this judge blocked him" or "the Democrats!" when there are always ways. "Just do it" is not something he's ever practiced (at least since I've been following him, no, not on freakin' twitter!

    In the meantime patriotic Americans that don't pay attention to much beyond occasional tweets like this will be satisfied with him for a long while ... till their country's gone.

  37. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Good old Donald !!!!!!

    Sticking it to The Economist editorial board since 2016.

    Ha ha ha.

    • Replies: @Lot
    If you got any Alabamans on your facebook, please send them a short note:

    “I follow the immigration issue very closely. There has never been a better senator on immigration than Jeff Sessions. We need him back there like never before. I can’t vote for him, I hope you will on July 14.”

    It’s gonna be a close and low-turnout election, every vote counts.
  38. @Buzz Mohawk
    Do you hear that sound? No, it's not Pacific waves crashing ashore. It's injunction papers issuing from the Ninth Circuit.

    Do you hear that sound? No, it’s not Pacific waves crashing ashore. It’s injunction papers issuing from the Ninth Circuit.

    I have no idea what the basis will be, but if the past 3 years are any indication you’re probably right.

    That said, H1B (like H2B) are non-immigrant visas.
    So they could continue just as before in terms of undermining pay, except now (at least while this is in effect) it might not be able to convert to Green cards.

    Overall i think this’ll just mean worse people on H1Bs.

    Also, this is going to be a real kick in the nuts for a lot of people currently on an h1b hoping to apply for a green card. I’m in favor of restricting immigration (especially the illegal border crossing kind) and reforming some of the rest, but changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.

    • Troll: V. Hickel
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Womp womp.
    , @Anonymous

    but changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.
     
    Strange thing, but I've had rules changed and invented in the middle of the game, never even announced formally or written down, and nobody even lifted an eyebrow. But perhaps I could count on a donation from you (large donations preferred), or perhaps a citizenship in another country? The compensation would be inadequate, but I might accept it.
    , @Jim Don Bob

    changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.
     
    I dunno. I can't remember anybody running for office who promised to throw thousands of American programmers out of work and replace them with subCon H1Bs so the FANGs could add billions to their stock value, but that's what we got.
  39. @Anonymous
    America First Senate candidate Jeff Sessions called for an immigration moratorium while on Tucker’s show last week.

    https://www.twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1250960137600155648

    I saw that. It’s nice that the Donald finally listened to the man who, more than anybody else in Washington D.C., helped him in to the White House.

    And – as I’m sure Dr. Anthony Fasci would agree – the immigration moratorium cannot be lifted until there is not one single detectable virus particle anywhere within the borders of the U.S.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    "And – as I’m sure Dr. Anthony Fasci would agree – the immigration moratorium cannot be lifted until there is not one single detectable virus particle anywhere within the borders of the U.S."

    Surely you mean Outside the borders of the U.S.?
  40. @Hail

    here come the loopholes
     
    The wording tips the hand that it's another stunt to get the 2016 base/enthusiasm back:

    temporarily suspend immigration into the United States
     
    Prediction: Add this to a list of similar vague but huge promises that sound good but never quite pann out. I hope I am wrong. There are very many of these. The original big one was, "They have to go back."

    The words 'temporarily,' 'suspend,' and 'immigration' can all be defined any way they want, quickly making the whole thing as rapidly deflatable a balloon as the Coronavirus-Panic itself is set to be.

    So it's possibly another reality-TV plot twist, a long way from a stern policy commitment to a (badly needed) Immigration Moratorium.

    Prediction: Add this to a list of similar vague but huge promises that sound good but never quite pann out. I hope I am wrong. There are very many of these. The original big one was, “They have to go back.”

    Indeed. Remember the promised executive order to end birthright citizenship back in the fall of 2018? It’s not like we can really trust Trump anymore.

  41. @Anon
    Stability test results of the virus here:

    https://www.scribd.com/document/456897616/DHSST#download&from_embed

    The virus lives longer at lower humidity and at lower temperatures. As for sunlight, it reduced Covid-19 to undetectable levels in just 3 minutes in the midday sun. The virus suspended in saliva was 90% gone in simulated full sunlight in 10 minutes. The authors say transmission during daytime outdoors is lower risk.

    I wonder if active city nightlife spread a lot of Covid-19? Subways don't get sunlight, so they have to be cleaned very thoroughly.

    Almost all subway lines get exposed to sunlight; for the most part they only run below ground in Manhattan and the parts of the line in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Queens are all above ground.

    The exception is the Times Square / Grand Central shuttle and the C, E and R trains.

    The worst subway line for spreading the virus – the 7 train – runs above ground for most of its route.

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    Thank you for informing me of this. Have any of you tried suing them for false advertising?
  42. Anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven’t yet adjusted to permanent residence.
     
    They're welcome to go home, if they want.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who’ve applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven’t been issued with official documents due to visa caps.
     
    Don't issue them documents and don't let them in.

    What happens to these two groups of people?
     
    What happened to the millions of Americans who lost their jobs in the last month?

    Nobody in power seemed too concerned about them before casually throwing them out of work.

    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven’t yet adjusted to permanent residence.

    They’re welcome to go home, if they want.

    Pay the struggling airlines to fly them home. Same with the illegal aliens.

    Planes are empty. Fuel is at historic lows.

  43. Anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:

    With apologies to Rahm Emanuel.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  44. @vhrm

    Do you hear that sound? No, it’s not Pacific waves crashing ashore. It’s injunction papers issuing from the Ninth Circuit.
     
    I have no idea what the basis will be, but if the past 3 years are any indication you're probably right.

    ---

    That said, H1B (like H2B) are non-immigrant visas.
    So they could continue just as before in terms of undermining pay, except now (at least while this is in effect) it might not be able to convert to Green cards.

    Overall i think this'll just mean worse people on H1Bs.

    Also, this is going to be a real kick in the nuts for a lot of people currently on an h1b hoping to apply for a green card. I'm in favor of restricting immigration (especially the illegal border crossing kind) and reforming some of the rest, but changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.

    Womp womp.

  45. @BenKenobi
    On Our Uncle’s birthday, no less. What a slice of morale to the troops. Let’s hope he jails the judge that tries to block it.

    This was day one stuff, but I’ll settle for day 1200.

    Cautiously optimistic.

    On Our Uncle’s birthday, no less.

    You don’t mean…?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    This level of triggering hasn't been attempted since the infamous Trump Tower Burrito tweet, which was on...

    Cinco de Mayo.

    Did Miller put him up to it?
    , @Stan Adams
    I can easily believe that Hitler was Ben Kenobi's uncle. There's a strong family resemblance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt4zVgJKpow
  46. @Hail

    @Steve, the moratorium takes advantage of the short term panic. Media, politicians, cause short term panic to enforce the shutdown discipline.
     
    Why did DJT do an announcement/move/stunt like this only on April 20? Why not March 20, for example, with CoronaPanic young and fresh?

    By April 20, if DJT has halfway competent advisers, and if the crazed, Rasputin-like shutdown-fanatic Fauci no longer runs the show, Trump will know that the coronavirus pandemic is effectively over, is long past its peak, whatever it was.

    He ought not need any advisers to tell him that there was effectively an opportunistic coup d'etat attempt with this virus, which largely succeeded. All that's left to do is score points off the crisis and take advantage of the lingering impression that there is an ongoing crisis, possibly enforced by the media, as this whole insane and surreal episdoe has been all along. In other words, while Coronavirus Coverage has always been 'prolefeed' to an extent, now it is "super-deluxe prolefeed." omething people in the know will increasingly be aware is fake, a series of cynical attempts all around to gain points over rivals. Few or none will be issuing apologies for ruining so many lives for nothing.

    Another unexpected negative here that occurs to me: Ironically this gets some core-Trump-2016 people in favor of continuing the National Emergency and the insane Shutdowns, which we so badly need to lift.

    Another unexpected negative here that occurs to me: Ironically this gets some core-Trump-2016 people in favor of continuing the National Emergency and the insane Shutdowns, which we so badly need to lift.

    You don’t need the shutdowns to justify the immigration moratorium: the >20% unemployment rate will justify it.

    When that unemployment rate comes down, and wages start to rise, you justify the immigration moratorium based on that (“Working Americans are finally getting raises after the ‘invisible enemy’ caused the worst unemployment since the Great Depression – now’s not the time to take our foot off the gas.”).

    • Agree: Polynikes
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    You don’t need the shutdowns to justify the immigration moratorium: the >20% unemployment rate will justify it.
     
    No, it will be *thought to* justify it because of some of the stupid pro-immigration propaganda projects (e.g., "They do the jobs Americans won't do."). The truth, however, is that immigration is equally bad at all unemployment rates.
  47. @Buzz Mohawk
    I understand he is also going to build a great big wall along the southern border.

    And he is going to build Atlantic City's greatest casino... Oh, he did already. It was "Tremendous!"

    Trump Champagne is Tremendous too. Tremendously Terrible at Fifty Bucks. Tremendously acidic. We bought a bottle for some holiday or other, earlier this year. It is a rosé (!) and it is garbage.

    During today’s White House presser, the Corps of Engineers general said 164 miles of the border war have been built.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Yes, I know. 164 Miles. I took a piss an hour ago. That's about how much 164 miles is worth.
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    That 164 miles counts repairs to existing parts of the structure, it is a joke.

    Trump has not been serious about building a wall. Although, since a wall is a stupid way to combat immigration, if you view the wall as just another Trump con, it is a pretty good grift, and certainly a successful way to get the message about immigration out to the intellectually challenged.
  48. Hail says: • Website

    The Trump tweet came after Tucker was off the air so it did not feature on his show.

    Being that Tucker Carlson is slowly getting off the Corona Bandwagon, it will be interesting to see how this latest DJT Big Promise to the Base plays out, given that it is explicitly conditional on CoronaHype staying above a certain decibel level.

    From his April 20, 8pm EDT, Tucker Carlson opening monologue:

    The most terrifying period of this epidemic appears to be coming to an end, if not over.

    The time for panic, and there was one, is now over.

    Our greatest fear going into this was that our entire healthcare system would collapse under the strain of new cases. That was a real fear, and it was justified. That’s why we locked the country down.

    But that collapse never came, and we are grateful for that. The famous ‘curve’ they told you about has been flattened.

    In the meantime, though, an awful lot of people have been flattened themselves. Badly hurt by our government’s response. Children are going uneducated. Tens of millions of people have lost their livelihoods. The whole economy is in tatters. […]

    We see Tucker is still giving lip-service to the sacred precepts of Corona, and still pushes the idea that the ‘lockdown’ he demanded was justified, but I detect more than a hint of embarrassment in his delivery. You can already hear the updated versions of “I never really believed in the WMDs; that was those other people.”

    Tucker covers Corona Coup d’Etat territory, even using the term “coup d’etat” to describe what big-state D-governors did, in collusion with the media and others (was Tucker a useful-idiot?). Tucker would probably be one to start using his influence to push for swift and full re-opening, as Laura Ingraham has been for a long time. But now the “suspension of immigration during the Corona Apocalypse Virus Crisis” thing might preempt that.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Disagree: Kyle
    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    "That’s why we locked the country down." - Carlson

    I know you know this, Hail, but, for the rest of you, we must never fail to push back against this nonsense. We did not lock the country down. States - primarily those governed by Democrats - shut down sectors of the economy. But they did not shut down everything, and for the most part, the burden of suffering fell disproportionately on small and medium businesses while the giants of Globohomo were spared.

    (By the way, this is, of course, sufficient evidence that "big government" and "big system" are part of the same system.)

    , @Hail
    Tucker Carlson slams Trump immigration-suspension plan:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWLA6si4Tak

    (Partial transcript of the opening monologue [from 5:15], broadcast 8pm EDT, April 21; transcripted by me)


    The new moratorium on immigration will last for sixty days, at which point it could be extended or it may not be extended.

    The ban will apply only to individuals seeking permanent permanent residency in this country. In other words, people who like the United States enough to stay permanently, and would like green cards to be able to do it legally. But the ban will not apply to those entering the United States on a "temporary basis," and that means this will not affect guest workers.

    That’s an awful lot of exceptions.

    Every year, our government hands out 80,000 non-agricultural guest worker visas, as well as 85,000 H1b visas, and hundreds of thousands of ag-worker visas.

    The purpose of this tidal wave of immigration has nothing to do with what advocates of immigration claim immigration is for. These visas do not improve American society in any way. We have no moral obligation to give them. There is no mention of guest workers on the Statue of Liberty.

    There’s only one point in handing out hundreds of thousands of these visas to foreign nationals, and it's to placate Big Business. Employers, always and everywhere, want to hire workers for less. In this case, for less than Americans make. And these visas let them do it.
     


    You may have just lost your job, but you'll be happy to know that Accenture can still import IT workers from Asia, who will work for less than you once made.

    So if the point of this executive order was to protect American jobs -- maybe there was another point, but if it was to protect American jobs -- it failed.

    So how did this happen, exactly? Well, we are not sure, though we do plan to find out...
     

    That was the main part of interest on the immigration-suspension plan. The rest is set-up and commentary and Tucker-style satirization of the Left.

    Just twenty-two hours after the tweet, it was already clear it was nothing like what a VDare plan would look like, another attempted bone-toss to the low-info wing of the old MAGA coalition.

    _____________

    It is a great monologue with Tucker back in his usual style. An earlier portion of the monologue has Tucker slamming "Pampered Americans who Oppose an Immigration Moratorium" [from 2:55].

    Transcript by me; this is worth quoting/reading/for reference:


    And yet some people in this country still oppose the idea [of an immigration pause].

    Who are these people, and why did they oppose it?

    Well, people who have been pampered and enriched by waves of low-wage immigration. They're against it. Politicians whose hopes for power rest on changing this country's population oppose it, too. They'd rather see Americans unemployed. In fact, anyone whose livelihood depends upon selling out the country is apt to be very threatened by this.

    Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is squarely in that category. ...[She is] appalled by the notion of cutting immigration during the worst unemployment crisis of our lifetimes. As she just explained on MSNBC, that’s immoral.

    >> [Video clip.] MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell: "How do you feel about the president’s messaging on immigration?" ALBRIGHT: "Well, I’m stunned. And I really do think that the Statue of Liberty is weeping. It is un-American." <<

    Got that? It’s "un-American" to act in the economic interests of Americans. That's Madeleine Albright's position.

    But at least we'll say this for her. She seemed coherent as she said it:

    Former presidential candidate Robert "Beto" O'Rourke, -- who is technically unemployed himself, though still very rich -- erupted in a primal scream when he heard the news. He tweeted this, quote: "Who the F-- do you think is working on the farms and feedlots, and the packing houses and processing plants, at a time we are struggling to feed ourselves? Who is in the kitchen, who is picking, preparing, serving the food we eat and cleaning up afterwards?"

    Honestly, those are all very good questions -- if you are an 18th century French marquis.

    As the country falls apart around him, "Beteaux's" first and main concern is preserving America’s sacred caste system. The native-born working on farms? In kitchens? In factories? 'Sacre bleu!,' schreeched "Beteaux." It’s unnatural, unthinkable, it is wrong. We must have a compliant underclass. We must!
     

    Madeleine Albright thinks protecting Americans is Un-American.

    Subtext: Immigrants are the Real Americans. Subtext: Native-born, multi-generational Americans are less-American and their interests don't matter. They are morally inferior to The Real Americans.

    As for the satirization of Beto ("Beteaux") there, no one does it better than Tucker.

  49. @Mr. Anon

    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven’t yet adjusted to permanent residence.
     
    They're welcome to go home, if they want.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who’ve applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven’t been issued with official documents due to visa caps.
     
    Don't issue them documents and don't let them in.

    What happens to these two groups of people?
     
    What happened to the millions of Americans who lost their jobs in the last month?

    Nobody in power seemed too concerned about them before casually throwing them out of work.

    Well, what I mean is this.

    If an H-1b is waiting for a green card (after having been approved), would the green card then be rescinded and the H-1b visa status cancelled?

    If that’s the case, then an immigration moratorium isn’t enough. You’d have to have deportations + moratorium. If you didn’t do that, you’d just have a permanent army of H-1bs on your territory.

    So I think Trump’s proposal has to be fleshed out a little bit.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Yes, cancel all their paperwork and deport them. No doubt you'll hear from them again, next time you get a spam-call from "IRS" or "Microsoft support".
  50. @Anonymous

    But they may well be in a position in which they can’t oppose immigration even though it almost certainly would worsen the covid problem.
     
    How does it worsen the covid problem?

    Immigration is a major vector of all diseases.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  51. @Anonymous
    https://www.twitter.com/jeffsessions/status/1252447444908027904

    If you got any Alabamans on your facebook, please send them a short note:

    “I follow the immigration issue very closely. There has never been a better senator on immigration than Jeff Sessions. We need him back there like never before. I can’t vote for him, I hope you will on July 14.”

    It’s gonna be a close and low-turnout election, every vote counts.

    • Agree: Ian Smith, Chrisnonymous
  52. @Dave Pinsen
    During today's White House presser, the Corps of Engineers general said 164 miles of the border war have been built.

    Yes, I know. 164 Miles. I took a piss an hour ago. That’s about how much 164 miles is worth.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    It's 164 miles than you would have gotten otherwise, and walls in high traffic areas can have a real impact. They did in San Diego.
  53. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The words ‘temporarily,’ ‘suspend,’ and ‘immigration’ can all be defined any way they want, quickly making the whole thing as rapidly deflatable a balloon as the Coronavirus-Panic itself is set to be.
     
    Agreed.

    BTW, SARS-CoV-2 (Corona-chan) is turning out to be the Comet Kohoutek of viruses.

    In 1973, the world and all of us amateur astronomers got all hyped up about an approaching comet that was going to be spectacular. It turned out to be a dud. Nevertheless, I was able to photograph it on High Speed Ektachrome from the top of the mountain ridge behind my house.

    <>
    BTW, SARS-CoV-2 (Corona-chan) is turning out to be the Comet Kohoutek of viruses.

    In 1973, the world and all of us amateur astronomers got all hyped up about an approaching comet that was going to be spectacular. It turned out to be a dud.
    <>

    Yes, but without it, it is unlikely we ever would have gotten Lucifer’s Hammer. : )

    Which leads me to ask: didn’t Steve Sailer know Jerry Pournelle? If so, are there any stories he could share?

    (Also: am I the only one who happens to be reading LH at the moment?)

    • LOL: theMann
    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    Lucifer’s Hammer is a great, detailed fictionalization of a possible SHTF scenario. I re-read it again a few months ago. The big lesson I took away from it was that coordination with a tight-knit, like-minded community is the essential factor for survival. A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won't last a month!
  54. @Steve Sailer
    A problem with sunlight is shade. For example, if a cubical box is delivered to my front porch at 1pm, the top and south side of the 6 sided box will get hit by the sun, if the sun is out (which has been remarkably seldom for the last 6 weeks in L.A., but that's about over). But not the bottom or the north or east sides of the box.

    A problem with sunlight is shade. For example, if a cubical box is delivered to my front porch at 1pm, the top and south side of the 6 sided box will get hit by the sun, if the sun is out (which has been remarkably seldom for the last 6 weeks in L.A., but that’s about over). But not the bottom or the north or east sides of the box.

    This won’t be a problem in Honolulu on May 26th or July 15th:

    Lahaina Noon – when the sun is directly overhead and makes things look like a bad videogame

    But Think of the Economy!

    As in, “Put the Wall Street Journal over her face and do it for the economy”?

  55. @Tusk
    Deport them.

    Easier said than done. Silicon Valley has a swarm of lobbyists in DC, with their fangs in both parties. If Trump can get them to relinquish their H-1b workforce, that’d be remarkable.

    I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I don’t know if such a proposal can move forward in this political atmosphere.

    Of course, considering the type of unemployment we have in this country, you’d think that it’d be common sense to offer H-1b jobs up to Americans.

    I’m skeptical he’ll do that, but we’ll see.

    If Trump does decide to void all approved green card petitions for H-1bs transitioning to permanent residence, that’d do a lot to Re-Americanize the software workforce.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Silicon Valley has a swarm of lobbyists in DC, with their fangs in both parties.
     
    True, but he could tighten the administration of H1B visas so that they are much more difficult to get by doing something as simple as requiring more documentation that the company wanting this moron just can't find anybody in the whole USA who can do the job.

    Right now a tomato grower in Florida will advertise for tomato pickers in North Dakota, and when he doesn't get any responses says, "See! Bring on the Mexicans!" It is completely and utterly corrupt, and both parties are to blame.
  56. Anonymous[190] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    On Our Uncle’s birthday, no less.
     
    You don't mean...?



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/01/11/Adolf_Hitler_und_Hermann_Goring_trans%2B%2B_01geUMvhhqXYj_tJM1bT4JpN1butCYh4PSmYUxIH9Q.jpg

    This level of triggering hasn’t been attempted since the infamous Trump Tower Burrito tweet, which was on…

    Cinco de Mayo.

    Did Miller put him up to it?

  57. Here’s what you should be thinking about the economy.

    Black Gold has become the Anti-Gold. The front month contract is trading at a negative- people will pay you to take it away from them but there’s nowhere to store it.
    The contract closes today- if you own it at the close of trading you have to take delivery during May.

    Should be fun to watch.

    Gold on the other hand can’t be had for love nor money. Chicago’s changed the rules allowing physical delivery of gold to be satisfied by a paper contract promising physical delivery of gold.

    For the past five years I’ve been amazed at the speed of our civilizational collapse- I had no idea an economic collapse could be engineered in just 60 days.

    The China flu has brought about the Chinese curse: We live in interesting days.

    • Replies: @miss marple
    Interesting days, you say? The problem is that it's not interesting at all. We didn't have masks. We didn't make them in time. People hang out doing silly things with lots of them losing what few social skills they had. Have the men in your neighborhood started sitting in the front yard wearing undershirts and drinking beer yet? Interesting? Throttle inspiring instead I'd say.
    , @Anonymous

    For the past five years I’ve been amazed at the speed of our civilizational collapse-
     
    What have you seen in the past five years that you believe is evidence of civilizational collapse?
  58. anon[437] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s a calculated political move to keep his base from deserting him as he tries strangling states into opening up (his federal government is stealing PPE shipments to the states, slowly withdrawing funding for testing, he’s fomenting rebellion on Twitter, and his buddy Stephen Moore is organizing astroturf protests that aren’t even supported by the majority of republicans). His approval rating is falling. Remember, this is the guy who has repeatedly stated he wants the greatest number of legal immigrants in history admitted into this country. Don’t believe this conman.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    It’s a calculated political move to keep his base from deserting him as he tries strangling states into opening up (his federal government is stealing PPE shipments to the states, slowly withdrawing funding for testing, he’s fomenting rebellion on Twitter, and his buddy Stephen Moore is organizing astroturf protests that aren’t even supported by the majority of republicans). His approval rating is falling. Remember, this is the guy who has repeatedly stated he wants the greatest number of legal immigrants in history admitted into this country. Don’t believe this conman.
     
    Last year, legal immigration was 590,000, down from 1.1 million the year before. If actions speak louder than words (as you claim), why can't you hear that?
  59. Anonymous[190] • Disclaimer says:

    A lot of people have blamed Trump for lack of planning. And tbh, he has not been impressive recently in that regard.

    If that’s the case, to get where he has gotten you need to have a preternatural ability to pull miracles out of your ass at the 11th hour. I think this qualifies.

    • Replies: @Rob (London)
    Could well be. Or it could be that he's a chancer whose luck will one day run out. Fairly soon.
  60. @notsaying
    Sounds like a great idea to me. The many open border supporters who will be outraged will show their true colors as they complain about putting America and Americans first.

    I wonder though if this includes tourists too.
    As we move into the summer months the tourist dependent places will probably start screaming to let foreign visitors back in. As Trump's own properties continue to lose money, I have to wonder how long he will stick to his guns.

    ” As Trump’s own properties continue to lose money, I have to wonder how long he will stick to his guns.”

    I think if presented properly he could spin it wonderfully.

    “I am doing this because it is the right thing for America! I am (unlike my predecessor) willing to leave the Presidency a poorer man because I view the Presidency as an opportunity for service not personal enrichment!

    My Legacy will be one of putting America First!”

  61. If Trump does decide to void all approved green card petitions for H-1bs transitioning to permanent residence, that’d do a lot to Re-Americanize the software workforce.

    I doubt it. For all the difficulties introduced by working across timezones (and imo it sucks pretty bad) the industry’s already been doing it for years and i don’t think it’s going to stop.

    In the software industry my whole guess is more than half of such positions will just move offshore (though some won’t, so i guess that’s a neyt win for nativists).

    Unless one puts some direct tax or tariff on foreign employees or foreign offices and subsidiaries i don’t think it’ll have much impact.

  62. @Mr. Anon
    I saw that. It's nice that the Donald finally listened to the man who, more than anybody else in Washington D.C., helped him in to the White House.

    And - as I'm sure Dr. Anthony Fasci would agree - the immigration moratorium cannot be lifted until there is not one single detectable virus particle anywhere within the borders of the U.S.

    “And – as I’m sure Dr. Anthony Fasci would agree – the immigration moratorium cannot be lifted until there is not one single detectable virus particle anywhere within the borders of the U.S.”

    Surely you mean Outside the borders of the U.S.?

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    That's just common sense.

    If you're trying to fight a global pandemic, the last thing you want is open borders. Especially when many third world countries have been so lax about containing the epidemic.

    If America continues to permit immigration during a situation like this, then it is a ridiculously dumb country.

    If our political/media elites don't go along with at least a temporary moratorium, it'll demonstrate once and for all that they're totally incompetent and unfit to lead.
  63. He will issue that EO just as soon as he issues his other promised EO — the one banning anchor babies.

    It’s all bullshit.

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    An executive order permanently banning immigration or even anchor babies is not going to stand-up in court. Even with a conservative Sup. Ct. it most likely will fail.

    Trump threatens stuff as a negotiating tactic. That one lead nowhere. But do you really believe he wouldn't sign that bill if it hit his desk? I personally believe he would. I also personally believe even if the Republicans win the House, there isn't enough spine there to send him that bill.

    This EO, if he issues it, will not deliver the results we desire. It'll get hung up in court, and it can not be permanent anyways.

    But I'll hang up and listen as you guys let me know about all the other politicians making headway on limiting immigration. Actually, I settle for a list that even talk about it. I'll start: Sessions, King, .......
  64. @candid_observer
    It puts the Democrats in an interesting position.

    Are they going to oppose this move? It's hard to see how they would accept it, even if, politically, opposing it would be a disaster.

    The Dems are trying to put every death from Covid at Trump's door. But they may well be in a position in which they can't oppose immigration even though it almost certainly would worsen the covid problem.

    A possible additional problem for the Dems is that it may well be found out that immigrant communities, and especially illegal immigrant communities, are becoming hotbeds of covid. That seems to be happening in Singapore, I gather.

    Wretched refuse doesn't seem so inspiring if it's bringing in disease and death.

    It will be interesting to see how long “temporary” lasts.

    • Replies: @jsm
    Hopefully as long as the average "temporary" tax.
  65. But … but … but … Won’t someone please think of all the fruit and veg rotting in the fields?

  66. @anon
    Tomatoes won't be rotting in the fields ... in Mexico. Perhaps there's some way we could import fresh food across the southern border, while leaving people in their home towns down there to work?

    Maybe there's some way we could teach Americans to code, rather than rely on importing Indians?

    Yah, I know, crazy talk!

    Maybe there’s some way we could teach Americans to code, rather than rely on importing Indians?

    I’m sure all the recently unemployed journalists could take to coding like fish take to water.

    • LOL: Muggles
  67. NYT: TRUMP CHOSES USELESS EATERS OVER PRODUCTIVE IMMIGRANTS.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    NYT: TRUMP CHOSES USELESS EATERS OVER PRODUCTIVE IMMIGRANTS.
     
    You forgot the sub-headline:

    WOMEN, CHILDREN, AND MINORITIES MOST NEGATIVELY IMPACTED

  68. Step one: tear down the Statue of Liberty, and replace it with the Statue of Limitations.

  69. @Bill Jones
    "And – as I’m sure Dr. Anthony Fasci would agree – the immigration moratorium cannot be lifted until there is not one single detectable virus particle anywhere within the borders of the U.S."

    Surely you mean Outside the borders of the U.S.?

    That’s just common sense.

    If you’re trying to fight a global pandemic, the last thing you want is open borders. Especially when many third world countries have been so lax about containing the epidemic.

    If America continues to permit immigration during a situation like this, then it is a ridiculously dumb country.

    If our political/media elites don’t go along with at least a temporary moratorium, it’ll demonstrate once and for all that they’re totally incompetent and unfit to lead.

  70. @Hail
    The Trump tweet came after Tucker was off the air so it did not feature on his show.

    Being that Tucker Carlson is slowly getting off the Corona Bandwagon, it will be interesting to see how this latest DJT Big Promise to the Base plays out, given that it is explicitly conditional on CoronaHype staying above a certain decibel level.

    From his April 20, 8pm EDT, Tucker Carlson opening monologue:


    The most terrifying period of this epidemic appears to be coming to an end, if not over.
     

    The time for panic, and there was one, is now over.
     

    Our greatest fear going into this was that our entire healthcare system would collapse under the strain of new cases. That was a real fear, and it was justified. That's why we locked the country down.

    But that collapse never came, and we are grateful for that. The famous 'curve' they told you about has been flattened.

    In the meantime, though, an awful lot of people have been flattened themselves. Badly hurt by our government's response. Children are going uneducated. Tens of millions of people have lost their livelihoods. The whole economy is in tatters. [...]
     

    We see Tucker is still giving lip-service to the sacred precepts of Corona, and still pushes the idea that the 'lockdown' he demanded was justified, but I detect more than a hint of embarrassment in his delivery. You can already hear the updated versions of "I never really believed in the WMDs; that was those other people."

    Tucker covers Corona Coup d'Etat territory, even using the term "coup d'etat" to describe what big-state D-governors did, in collusion with the media and others (was Tucker a useful-idiot?). Tucker would probably be one to start using his influence to push for swift and full re-opening, as Laura Ingraham has been for a long time. But now the "suspension of immigration during the Corona Apocalypse Virus Crisis" thing might preempt that.

    “That’s why we locked the country down.” – Carlson

    I know you know this, Hail, but, for the rest of you, we must never fail to push back against this nonsense. We did not lock the country down. States – primarily those governed by Democrats – shut down sectors of the economy. But they did not shut down everything, and for the most part, the burden of suffering fell disproportionately on small and medium businesses while the giants of Globohomo were spared.

    (By the way, this is, of course, sufficient evidence that “big government” and “big system” are part of the same system.)

    • Agree: botazefa, Hail
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    I know you know this, Hail, but, for the rest of you, we must never fail to push back against this nonsense. We did not lock the country down. States – primarily those governed by Democrats – shut down sectors of the economy. But they did not shut down everything, and for the most part, the burden of suffering fell disproportionately on small and medium businesses while the giants of Globohomo were spared.
     
    That's exactly right. It is small businesses who are affected the most by the Lockdown. And old retail giants like J.C. Penny and Nieman-Marcus, but they were circling the drain anyway. But Walmart and Home Depot are still open and will weather this. Amazon is flourishing - not the people who work there but Jeff Bezos himself.

    And the mainstream media rolled out what seemed like pre-packaged slogans and PR campaigns: "Safe at Home", "Alone Together", "All in this together - 6 feet apart", spewed out PSAs with vacuous celebrities telling us to stay home, and lionized health-care workers*, all while encouraging people to hunker down in their prole-caves and drink, toke, binge-watch Netflix, and order takeout from Tacobell.

    *James Corbett pointed out how "healthcare workers" are now being held up as the heroes in this new "War on Death", just as soldiers were lionized during the "War on Terror". Remember "Support our Troops" and "Thankyou for your service"? Corbett also mentions they are just as likely to be used and discarded as were all those soldiers were.
  71. Anonymous[499] • Disclaimer says:
    @vhrm

    Do you hear that sound? No, it’s not Pacific waves crashing ashore. It’s injunction papers issuing from the Ninth Circuit.
     
    I have no idea what the basis will be, but if the past 3 years are any indication you're probably right.

    ---

    That said, H1B (like H2B) are non-immigrant visas.
    So they could continue just as before in terms of undermining pay, except now (at least while this is in effect) it might not be able to convert to Green cards.

    Overall i think this'll just mean worse people on H1Bs.

    Also, this is going to be a real kick in the nuts for a lot of people currently on an h1b hoping to apply for a green card. I'm in favor of restricting immigration (especially the illegal border crossing kind) and reforming some of the rest, but changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.

    but changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.

    Strange thing, but I’ve had rules changed and invented in the middle of the game, never even announced formally or written down, and nobody even lifted an eyebrow. But perhaps I could count on a donation from you (large donations preferred), or perhaps a citizenship in another country? The compensation would be inadequate, but I might accept it.

  72. @Redneck farmer
    NYT: TRUMP CHOSES USELESS EATERS OVER PRODUCTIVE IMMIGRANTS.

    NYT: TRUMP CHOSES USELESS EATERS OVER PRODUCTIVE IMMIGRANTS.

    You forgot the sub-headline:

    WOMEN, CHILDREN, AND MINORITIES MOST NEGATIVELY IMPACTED

  73. OT – the UK taxman’s list of tax cheats looks remarkably like the General Medical Council’s list of incompetent/criminal doctors, only with more Chinese/Romanians/Ukrainians.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/publishing-details-of-deliberate-tax-defaulters-pddd/current-list-of-deliberate-tax-defaulters

    Takeaway food, restaurants and convenience stores feature prominently.

    I was in the queue to get into a bulk food warehouse last week and the Sikh guy behind me, a smallish greybeard, was counting out what must have been £1,000 in £20 notes. Trusting chap doing that in public, I thought – then I noticed the next guy in the queue, a very large Sikh, obviously his security. When we all got in, they walked round together.

    HMRC could pick its targets by simply comparing people’s tax returns with the vehicles they drive – the guy on £25k driving a big new Mercedes 4×4, for example.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    HMRC is very likely poring over all sorts of financial transactions during the shutdown involving the owners of businesses that have a high cash throughput. The taxman’s favourite target for investigation may return to an environment tweaked to cut off some more of the blatant avenues of evasion.

    The sterling work of the DVLA in closing down the abuse of the “caravanette” coding by businesses should be useful as a model.

  74. Anyone know if the problems Zoom is having with security are related to the use of H1Bs or foreign-born coders/engineers?

    • Replies: @Anon
    Supposedly the zoom ceo is a Chinese national who was denied a visa 8 times. What more do you need to know?
  75. The Executive Order includes exceptions for migrant agricultural laborers and healthcare workers.

    Also, immigrants in the U.S. won’t be removed. So presumably if you’re adjusting your citizenship status while in the U.S., you won’t be impacted.

    My understanding is that immigration is already temporarily suspended (other than agricultural and health workers) due to issues at visa consulates, but would’ve resumed in 1-2 months. Trump’s temporary moratorium seems to be extending that period of time.

    So we already seem to have a moratorium on new immigration (with the exceptions for agricultural and healthcare). The main affect of Trump’s Executive Order is to extend the moratorium beyond June.

    Presumably, the immigration moratorium will end IF the economy rebounds. However, that’s a big IF….. I actually think there’s a pretty good chance that even IF the economy rebounds (which it might not…), a lot of jobs just won’t be coming back. So it’s not impossible to see this temporary moratorium turning into a permanent moratorium. I think there’s a good chance of that happening. A permanent moratorium might still include some exceptions (spouses&children of green card holders, doctors&nurses, ultra rich, those with very rare skills), but migration levels will likely be pretty low.

    At this point, the only legal immigration action that needs to happen now is a removal of the status of H-1b visa workers (including those who are adjusting to permanent residence through corporate sponsorship). Once that happens, Trump will have done what he needs to do on legal immigration.

    Though he’ll still have to deal with illegal immigration…

  76. Trump, don’t skate around the issue. Baby, please go all the way!

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    Well that's the post of the day. Here's another noteworthy roller-vid (10 million views but just in case anyone missed it)

    https://youtu.be/QVYgoejO3ac

    There's another with the gal from the St Petersburg String Quartet playing violin while skateboarding, but you can find that one yourselves
    , @Joe Stalin
    Trump is nimble enough to get around court orders if he puts his mind to it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liy0afJ8Gzw
  77. @candid_observer
    It puts the Democrats in an interesting position.

    Are they going to oppose this move? It's hard to see how they would accept it, even if, politically, opposing it would be a disaster.

    The Dems are trying to put every death from Covid at Trump's door. But they may well be in a position in which they can't oppose immigration even though it almost certainly would worsen the covid problem.

    A possible additional problem for the Dems is that it may well be found out that immigrant communities, and especially illegal immigrant communities, are becoming hotbeds of covid. That seems to be happening in Singapore, I gather.

    Wretched refuse doesn't seem so inspiring if it's bringing in disease and death.

    The outbreaks at the Smithfield plants and other meat processors in the Midwest is almost certainly fueled by immigrants, although the ignition source for Smithfield may well have been some of their Chinese owners who snuck into the country after the China travel ban went into effect.

    Throughout the Midwest, towns were promised economic bounties if they permitted slaughter houses and other meat processing facilities. Instead, illegal aliens got many of the jobs and the communities got stuck with increased crime and the bill for educational, medical, and social services for the workers’ families. The smart towns were the ones who took a hard pass.

  78. The Chief White House Correspondent of the New York Times snarks: …

    Dog bites man: his Twitter timeline is full of similar ‘snark’ –> link — if Trump wasn’t quite so buffoonish, he wouldn’t be such an easy target; and if Baker wasn’t such a snide asshole, he wouldn’t do it so often — but then what do you expect from a “political analyst (sic) for MSNBC”.

  79. @Anonymous
    Steve Sailer:

    "But Think of the Economy!"

    Considering that the U.S is now the global hot spot of the coronavirus, this makes no sense. It is the rest of the World that should create laws to protect them from Americans immigrating there

    This is why Trump’s proclamation is basically meaningless, this is just more theater for the masses (although, granted, a smart political move to get liberals to stay stupid things). There is just no push at the moment from immigrants to get into the US. If anything, people who have foreign passports should be trying to leave.

    The real test will be when the economy starts humming again in 12 months.

    • Replies: @Brian Reilly
    Peter, You are mostly correct. The proclamation is mostly theater. But... even in dire straits, or (perhaps) rigor mortis, the US is attractive to hundreds of millions of people. You say "...no push at the moment from immigrants to get into the US." and you are mistaken. There are tens of thousands in formal queue, tens of thousands just snuck in over the border, hundreds of thousands who will surreptitiously eneter in the next year, and untold millions who would wade ashore as fast as possible, given any opportunity.

    You migrated here from rural Mexico. Live in CA, doing light construction for cash. Like your dad, and your son. You are not documented, and under no pressure to become so. You are going to self-deport to Mexico because it is better there? Really? I think not, and so do you. Same thing fr an Indian (dot) here on an H1 visa. Back to Dehli? Not so much, thanks. I will take the chance that it is better here in Santa Clara or Novi.

    If the economy is honestly (not a Fed QE) humming in a year, meet me back right here and I will buy you a beer. My bet is that another 4 million Hispanics will have stormed in, leaving the crime filled, corrupt, disease ridden shitholes they were born in. And the Dems and Repubs will still want to fill jobs that Americans just won't do.
    , @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Yes, and I doubt America will be back to status quo ante very soon. This massive spike in unemployment in America is unparalleled in its rapidity and size.

    And unlike every other recession or depression in American history its cause is so simple even a low information voter can grasp it in its entirety: the government told us we couldn't work.

    The government told us we couldn't work.

    So no media morality plays about greedy loan officers selling 750K homes to strawberry pickers, or banks slicing and dicing crap mortgages and dumping them on avaricious buyers, etc, etc.

    The government told us we couldn't work.

    That's only a knife edge away from 'it's the government's responsibility to get me working again', to ensure I get a job back.

    So while I do think immigration will continue, there will be a lot of pressure to not reopen the spigots until the unemployment rate is back to where it was before any shutdowns -- and probably the lowest possible.
  80. @Dave Pinsen
    During today's White House presser, the Corps of Engineers general said 164 miles of the border war have been built.

    That 164 miles counts repairs to existing parts of the structure, it is a joke.

    Trump has not been serious about building a wall. Although, since a wall is a stupid way to combat immigration, if you view the wall as just another Trump con, it is a pretty good grift, and certainly a successful way to get the message about immigration out to the intellectually challenged.

    • Agree: V. Hickel
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Construction rapidly developing now with little delays. Logistical matters simplified when all other activity largely ended. Fantastic way to prevent entry and settlement as history has shown.

    Tactics vary, but short of shoot to kill orders and minefields, a large barrier and immediate expulsion for people who infiltrate, both in place now.

    Important to remember the scale of the project in these vast desert areas.


    https://www.hcn.org/issues/52.5/south-borderlands-triumph-and-tragedy-trumps-border-wall-expands
    , @cynthia curran
    Trump exempt H1b holders. Steve S doesn't want to bring up that H1b's are worst than illegal immigrants since they tend to vote more.
  81. @Dissident
    https://i.imgur.com/LwGmdOF.gif
    http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/34/768x1092/gallery-1439844171-esq0804covtx-trump-donald.jpg

    Too soon, to be sure, for us to celebrate. But how long before the tears start flowing from Our Lady of Liberty? And will The Honorable Mr. Schumer join her again? I'm starting to choke-up just at the thought...

    That “Are You A Traitor?” headline next to Trump’s head looks damn prescient in hindsight.

  82. @Buzz Mohawk
    I understand he is also going to build a great big wall along the southern border.

    And he is going to build Atlantic City's greatest casino... Oh, he did already. It was "Tremendous!"

    Trump Champagne is Tremendous too. Tremendously Terrible at Fifty Bucks. Tremendously acidic. We bought a bottle for some holiday or other, earlier this year. It is a rosé (!) and it is garbage.

    Right, Buzz. President Trump is mostly just a bullshitter. He may very well mean what he wrote, but that doesn’t mean a damn thing. He’ll tweet something different, maybe in complete contradiction to this, next week. Even if he does that, nothing will be done, because he doesn’t follow through. They’ll be complaints that “this judge blocked him” or “the Democrats!” when there are always ways. “Just do it” is not something he’s ever practiced (at least since I’ve been following him, no, not on freakin’ twitter!

    In the meantime patriotic Americans that don’t pay attention to much beyond occasional tweets like this will be satisfied with him for a long while … till their country’s gone.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    I agree compared to all the high impact changes you’ve been making Trump has really dropped the ball.

    Honestly shut the fuck up you and Steve and all the alt right have spent twenty years complaining and haven’t changed a damn thing. Lol Trump doesn’t even know who steve sailer is- instead trump was influenced by Ann Coulter- a writer I’m sure you reject as an agent of Israel.

    Mocking dumb blacks but not in person of course and cowering from Jews when you aren’t jacking off to how smart and clever they are. That’s the epitaph of the boomer alt right. Just a lower IQ lower t version of the feckless revolutionaries Doestovesky was always parodying.
  83. Do you actually believe that, any day now, there won’t be “virus refugees”?: people who were forced to flee Mexico, India or Senegal because there aren’t adequate ventilators or masks?

    As soon as this starts to wane, as it already has, we’re getting more immigration, not less. The best thing for the west is total economic collapse.

  84. @Intelligent Dasein

    perhaps under the influence of Miller
     
    He seems more like Pabst Blue Ribbon guy to me, but Miller High Life puts me in mind of a good song to commemorate the occasion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adw772km7PQ

    Ha! Nobody else got that, or nobody else has got any LOLs left either?

  85. @Buzz Mohawk

    The words ‘temporarily,’ ‘suspend,’ and ‘immigration’ can all be defined any way they want, quickly making the whole thing as rapidly deflatable a balloon as the Coronavirus-Panic itself is set to be.
     
    Agreed.

    BTW, SARS-CoV-2 (Corona-chan) is turning out to be the Comet Kohoutek of viruses.

    In 1973, the world and all of us amateur astronomers got all hyped up about an approaching comet that was going to be spectacular. It turned out to be a dud. Nevertheless, I was able to photograph it on High Speed Ektachrome from the top of the mountain ridge behind my house.

    Comet West around that time but maybe a year or two later, Buzz, was the REAL DEAL. The tail was something like 15 deg. long, and the head was mag.0 or brighter- going by memory alone here. You could see parts of it through sun-up. Thank you for bringing back this astronomical blast from the past Solar System.

  86. @Steve Johnson
    Almost all subway lines get exposed to sunlight; for the most part they only run below ground in Manhattan and the parts of the line in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Queens are all above ground.

    The exception is the Times Square / Grand Central shuttle and the C, E and R trains.

    The worst subway line for spreading the virus - the 7 train - runs above ground for most of its route.

    Thank you for informing me of this. Have any of you tried suing them for false advertising?

  87. @anon
    Considering what has happened and what will be happening due to Covid, this will be a flea bite. But it will produce much political distraction, which is the main purpose.

    You likely have your cause and effect backwards.

    Likely Trump has wanted to do this since year 1 when a Republican Congress spurned him. He had legal and political advisors telling him the legality will be challenged and the politics aren’t great. Now they are. I have already seen a few Republican “constitutionalists “ bemoaning this order. But they’ll be drown out.

    Trump’s using this crisis to get something for the hardcore base, some of which are getting frustrated with this shutdown.

  88. @anon
    Considering what has happened and what will be happening due to Covid, this will be a flea bite. But it will produce much political distraction, which is the main purpose.

    This is just a warm-up for the ultimate looming political distraction — and its name is RBG

  89. @Bill Jones
    Here's what you should be thinking about the economy.

    Black Gold has become the Anti-Gold. The front month contract is trading at a negative- people will pay you to take it away from them but there’s nowhere to store it.
    The contract closes today- if you own it at the close of trading you have to take delivery during May.

    Should be fun to watch.

    Gold on the other hand can’t be had for love nor money. Chicago’s changed the rules allowing physical delivery of gold to be satisfied by a paper contract promising physical delivery of gold.

    For the past five years I’ve been amazed at the speed of our civilizational collapse- I had no idea an economic collapse could be engineered in just 60 days.

    The China flu has brought about the Chinese curse: We live in interesting days.

    Interesting days, you say? The problem is that it’s not interesting at all. We didn’t have masks. We didn’t make them in time. People hang out doing silly things with lots of them losing what few social skills they had. Have the men in your neighborhood started sitting in the front yard wearing undershirts and drinking beer yet? Interesting? Throttle inspiring instead I’d say.

  90. @Peter Akuleyev
    This is why Trump's proclamation is basically meaningless, this is just more theater for the masses (although, granted, a smart political move to get liberals to stay stupid things). There is just no push at the moment from immigrants to get into the US. If anything, people who have foreign passports should be trying to leave.

    The real test will be when the economy starts humming again in 12 months.

    Peter, You are mostly correct. The proclamation is mostly theater. But… even in dire straits, or (perhaps) rigor mortis, the US is attractive to hundreds of millions of people. You say “…no push at the moment from immigrants to get into the US.” and you are mistaken. There are tens of thousands in formal queue, tens of thousands just snuck in over the border, hundreds of thousands who will surreptitiously eneter in the next year, and untold millions who would wade ashore as fast as possible, given any opportunity.

    You migrated here from rural Mexico. Live in CA, doing light construction for cash. Like your dad, and your son. You are not documented, and under no pressure to become so. You are going to self-deport to Mexico because it is better there? Really? I think not, and so do you. Same thing fr an Indian (dot) here on an H1 visa. Back to Dehli? Not so much, thanks. I will take the chance that it is better here in Santa Clara or Novi.

    If the economy is honestly (not a Fed QE) humming in a year, meet me back right here and I will buy you a beer. My bet is that another 4 million Hispanics will have stormed in, leaving the crime filled, corrupt, disease ridden shitholes they were born in. And the Dems and Repubs will still want to fill jobs that Americans just won’t do.

  91. Speaking of opening the economy, a race track in southeast South Dakota is holding races this weekend while trying to maintain social distancing guidelines. Park Jefferson is allowing 700 spectators and requiring that they sit six feet apart. Union county currently has four active Covid-19 cases. Nearby Woodbury county, Iowa, where a significant number of the fans will come from, has 25. The races are also available through a Pay Per View online option. If the races are a success, look for this to spread nationwide quickly.

    https://siouxcityjournal.com/sports/high-school/park-jefferson-plans-to-hold-races-on-saturday/article_218b110d-b582-532d-afc8-1ffa0df30018.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Together with other racing classes, Pennsylvania has long been famous among dirt track racing fans for having the best-paying and most competitive local weekly sprint car racing in America. Williams Grove, Port Royal, Lernerville, Selinsgrove, and Lincoln speedways are among the foremost dirt tracks in the country. It will be interesting to see if the South Dakota method spreads to PA, which is under the crazy reign of the rabid Tom Wolf and his punishing lock down of small and medium businesses and amusements.

    Having a far larger number of rednecks and yokels (I mean this in a positive way) than New York or New Jersey, I do not know if the interior of Pennsylvania will permanently endure the droll diktat of Wolf or the scolding of the "public health expert" and Philadelphia region tranny, Rachel Levine.

  92. @Buzz Mohawk
    Put your package inside one of these.

    http://www.massagesupplies.com/images/products/8057/UVC-C_8057.jpg

    Then go wash your hands because you touched that package. Then wash your hands again because you touched the faucet handle. Then wash the handle. Then wash your hands again.

    Better yet, just hire a contractor to build a giant version of an ultraviolet sterilizer box around your entire house.

    … Then go wash your hands because you touched that package. Then wash your hands again because you touched the faucet handle. Then wash the handle. Then wash your hands again.

    At last, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder is finally getting the respect it deserves

  93. @Hypnotoad666
    It will be interesting to see how long "temporary" lasts.

    Hopefully as long as the average “temporary” tax.

  94. @Buzz Mohawk
    Put your package inside one of these.

    http://www.massagesupplies.com/images/products/8057/UVC-C_8057.jpg

    Then go wash your hands because you touched that package. Then wash your hands again because you touched the faucet handle. Then wash the handle. Then wash your hands again.

    Better yet, just hire a contractor to build a giant version of an ultraviolet sterilizer box around your entire house.

    Hi Buzz,

    I don’t ordinarily like to criticize others’ opinions by referring them back to their supposed personality traits. It’s a bad habit easily abused, and I definitely dislike it when other people do it to me. However, there are moments when you just have to call a spade a spade.

    You’ll notice that among those still pimping or at least excusing the CoronaPanic, apart from the rapidly dwindling number of true believers, two types of personalities predominate: 1) The braggarts with an authoritarian streak who have found a convenient cudgel with which to slap everyone else around—these are the people who will always do what “the power” is doing; and 2) The good-boy/quants who see the world through the narrow lens of mathematical models and who embrace the current episode as a golden opportunity to show off their typically unillustrious skill sets (e.g. Fauci, Steve, Ron, and several commenters who shall remain nameless).

    Of course, the good-boy and the braggart are really the same thing under different aspects, so I guess it’s actually just one personality type, but it isn’t the one that’s needed in the public sphere. Anybody who felt a true sense of responsibility to his society must be responsible for his entire society, for all of its members (in the Pauline sense) and their gestalt functioning. Crippling lockdowns like what we’re experiencing never should have been on the table, ever. The whole idea bespeaks a total lack of leadership and a pathetic shallowness of understanding, not only of virology and economics but of human beings too.

    • Agree: Mehen, Johnny Rico
    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Hail

    You’ll notice that among those still pimping or at least excusing the CoronaPanic, apart from the rapidly dwindling number of true believers, two types of personalities predominate: 1) The braggarts with an authoritarian streak who have found a convenient cudgel with which to slap everyone else around—these are the people who will always do what “the power” is doing; and 2) The good-boy/quants who see the world through the narrow lens of mathematical models
     
    I can see why the first group you name is still pushing it (along with their vast auxiliaries of 'low-info' CoronaProlefeed-consumers and the corona coup d'etat and political-crisis carcass-pickers like those claiming the virus is racist and lockdown protesters Hate Black People). But why the second group you name?

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/euromomo-week-15-all-age-mortality.png

    It's over, people. The data says the Corona Apocalypse was actually a seasonal flu, and the response literally thousands of times what was necessary, a disastrous escalation spiral of over-responses in March.

    As we have learned now, over and over again, this flu is a flu.”
    — Dr. Knut Wittkowski (holder of multiple relevant PhDs and thirty years of recognized expertise in epidemiology), April 15. (As of April 1, KW has been an open CoronaDenier and anti-CoronaPanic hardliner).
  95. @vhrm

    Do you hear that sound? No, it’s not Pacific waves crashing ashore. It’s injunction papers issuing from the Ninth Circuit.
     
    I have no idea what the basis will be, but if the past 3 years are any indication you're probably right.

    ---

    That said, H1B (like H2B) are non-immigrant visas.
    So they could continue just as before in terms of undermining pay, except now (at least while this is in effect) it might not be able to convert to Green cards.

    Overall i think this'll just mean worse people on H1Bs.

    Also, this is going to be a real kick in the nuts for a lot of people currently on an h1b hoping to apply for a green card. I'm in favor of restricting immigration (especially the illegal border crossing kind) and reforming some of the rest, but changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.

    changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.

    I dunno. I can’t remember anybody running for office who promised to throw thousands of American programmers out of work and replace them with subCon H1Bs so the FANGs could add billions to their stock value, but that’s what we got.

    • Agree: Mr. Anon, ben tillman
    • Replies: @vhrm
    The FANGs do use some H1Bs, but the _cost savings_ from that are not that large, per person, and not amaterial piece of their success, imo.

    The contracting and outsourcing houses... OTOH, those (or sections of them anyway) are more akin to farmers or construction companies whose business model depends on paying well below market for a significant portion of their workforce, have crappy work conditions etc.

    (though, yes overall in a supply and demand sense H1Bs certainly lower wages and job security of Americans with whom they compete.)
  96. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    Considering what has happened and what will be happening due to Covid, this will be a flea bite. But it will produce much political distraction, which is the main purpose.

    I dont know, 2020 will be the smallest number of immigrants permitted to enter and settle in The United States for 2 or 3 decades. Possibly fewer than 200K with a similar number deported or voluntarily departing, dying etc.

    There will be a clear trend towards stable sustainable populations in the rich nations of northern Europe, North America, Australia New Zealand . A new embrace of the suburban lifestyle, working at home when possible. Particularly young white women who are more risk averse about threats of crime disease etc.

    • Agree: epebble
    • Replies: @anon
    You are correct; this will be the year with fewest immigrants/visitors. But thanks be to the virus, not any government action. It is amazing what nature can do in an instant what the polity could not do in a generation. What will also help in the future is to greatly reduce international travel. If the airlines are not bailed out, this will occur naturally. But the real driver will be the loss of jobs - magnet of immigration. Since ours is a service economy, if 30% of service sector gets deleted (conservatively), immigration will flameout by itself.
  97. @JohnnyWalker123
    Easier said than done. Silicon Valley has a swarm of lobbyists in DC, with their fangs in both parties. If Trump can get them to relinquish their H-1b workforce, that'd be remarkable.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't know if such a proposal can move forward in this political atmosphere.

    Of course, considering the type of unemployment we have in this country, you'd think that it'd be common sense to offer H-1b jobs up to Americans.

    I'm skeptical he'll do that, but we'll see.

    If Trump does decide to void all approved green card petitions for H-1bs transitioning to permanent residence, that'd do a lot to Re-Americanize the software workforce.

    Silicon Valley has a swarm of lobbyists in DC, with their fangs in both parties.

    True, but he could tighten the administration of H1B visas so that they are much more difficult to get by doing something as simple as requiring more documentation that the company wanting this moron just can’t find anybody in the whole USA who can do the job.

    Right now a tomato grower in Florida will advertise for tomato pickers in North Dakota, and when he doesn’t get any responses says, “See! Bring on the Mexicans!” It is completely and utterly corrupt, and both parties are to blame.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Right now a tomato grower in Florida will advertise for tomato pickers in North Dakota, and when he doesn’t get any responses
     
    With the price of oil at a historic low, he may very well get a few responses.


    The price I saw at one of our local pumps today would translate to 18¢/gal in 1968.



    https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020.png
  98. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    That 164 miles counts repairs to existing parts of the structure, it is a joke.

    Trump has not been serious about building a wall. Although, since a wall is a stupid way to combat immigration, if you view the wall as just another Trump con, it is a pretty good grift, and certainly a successful way to get the message about immigration out to the intellectually challenged.

    Construction rapidly developing now with little delays. Logistical matters simplified when all other activity largely ended. Fantastic way to prevent entry and settlement as history has shown.

    Tactics vary, but short of shoot to kill orders and minefields, a large barrier and immediate expulsion for people who infiltrate, both in place now.

    Important to remember the scale of the project in these vast desert areas.

    https://www.hcn.org/issues/52.5/south-borderlands-triumph-and-tragedy-trumps-border-wall-expands

  99. @Barnard
    Speaking of opening the economy, a race track in southeast South Dakota is holding races this weekend while trying to maintain social distancing guidelines. Park Jefferson is allowing 700 spectators and requiring that they sit six feet apart. Union county currently has four active Covid-19 cases. Nearby Woodbury county, Iowa, where a significant number of the fans will come from, has 25. The races are also available through a Pay Per View online option. If the races are a success, look for this to spread nationwide quickly.

    https://siouxcityjournal.com/sports/high-school/park-jefferson-plans-to-hold-races-on-saturday/article_218b110d-b582-532d-afc8-1ffa0df30018.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

    Together with other racing classes, Pennsylvania has long been famous among dirt track racing fans for having the best-paying and most competitive local weekly sprint car racing in America. Williams Grove, Port Royal, Lernerville, Selinsgrove, and Lincoln speedways are among the foremost dirt tracks in the country. It will be interesting to see if the South Dakota method spreads to PA, which is under the crazy reign of the rabid Tom Wolf and his punishing lock down of small and medium businesses and amusements.

    Having a far larger number of rednecks and yokels (I mean this in a positive way) than New York or New Jersey, I do not know if the interior of Pennsylvania will permanently endure the droll diktat of Wolf or the scolding of the “public health expert” and Philadelphia region tranny, Rachel Levine.

  100. Humm, an exemption for health care workers? Is being a doctor or nurse a job Americans won’t do?

    A few years back, there was the Ebola outbreak and the world heath apparatus went into motion to get it under control. After the outbreak one of the big health organizations did and “after action analysis” to determine lessons learned.

    One of their key findings was the African nations had difficulty executing to the plan because so many of their best doctors and nurses were working in Europe.

    I live in Silicon Valley, were a good 90% off Drs are foreign, mostly Indian. I routinely joke ” It must be great living in India, their health care is so good they can take all their excesses doctors and ship them off.”

    At what point is the so called left going to start calling out the immorality of strip mining the most capable medical professionals of undeveloped societies, so they can lance our boils and “enhance” our women?

    • Replies: @notsaying
    I think the poaching of other countries' medical personnel has to stop too. But it is done by lots of first world countries and no one besides me and a few others ever seem to complain. Saying this is the fault of the left is plain wrong. Everyone has been wrong on this for more than a generation now. Shame on all rich countries who take doctors and nurses away from poor countries.
  101. One argument against Wuhan Flu being a vast, deep state conspiracy to get Trump- and the measures already taken do seem to follow a sort of Strangelovian escalation pattern in their blissfully mad integrity (“We’ll threaten to jail his associates and family through the Mueller Report until he steps down. OK, that didn’t work; time to launch impeachment proceedings. OK, that didn’t work. Time to engage Operation Chad-barosa: unleash the pox!”) is that it has turned Joe Biden into the incredible shrinking man. One would think with such an overall dud candidate that the only way to drag him across that Electoral finish line would be a year’s worth of non-stop gaslighting as to what a tested leader and swell guy he is, but he’s nowhere to be seen while Trump with his daily briefings gets to play the role of national savior to the hilt.

    Anyway, though, I hope some form of the following plays out at one of the Presidential debates (with some of my modus ponens-observant clunkiness tossed, of course, in favor for Trump’s trademark ear for putting things in Everyman-ese as this makes its way from iSteve to the God Emperor’s ear)-

    Trump: “Would you give precious, beautiful ventilators to illegal immigrants before American citizens?”
    Biden (massive brain freeze): “Yes… yes, I would. That’s just who we are as Americans.”
    Trump: “What about illegal immigrants who will not become illegal immigrants until years later? Would you sentence THEM to die?”

    (an eternity of Biden brain fog later- i.e. two minutes of the debate)

    Biden (beaming): “I, Joe Biden, promise that as President America will see such numbers of ventilators and N95 masks leave our borders as none thought possible during a Trump Administration…”

  102. anon[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    I dont know, 2020 will be the smallest number of immigrants permitted to enter and settle in The United States for 2 or 3 decades. Possibly fewer than 200K with a similar number deported or voluntarily departing, dying etc.

    There will be a clear trend towards stable sustainable populations in the rich nations of northern Europe, North America, Australia New Zealand . A new embrace of the suburban lifestyle, working at home when possible. Particularly young white women who are more risk averse about threats of crime disease etc.

    You are correct; this will be the year with fewest immigrants/visitors. But thanks be to the virus, not any government action. It is amazing what nature can do in an instant what the polity could not do in a generation. What will also help in the future is to greatly reduce international travel. If the airlines are not bailed out, this will occur naturally. But the real driver will be the loss of jobs – magnet of immigration. Since ours is a service economy, if 30% of service sector gets deleted (conservatively), immigration will flameout by itself.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    You are correct; this will be the year with fewest immigrants/visitors. But thanks be to the virus, not any government action.
     
    But the same thing (fewest immigrants in three decades) happened last year, without the crown virus.
  103. This is just the flush our great big toilet of a country needs right now!

  104. @JohnnyWalker123
    Well, what I mean is this.

    If an H-1b is waiting for a green card (after having been approved), would the green card then be rescinded and the H-1b visa status cancelled?

    If that's the case, then an immigration moratorium isn't enough. You'd have to have deportations + moratorium. If you didn't do that, you'd just have a permanent army of H-1bs on your territory.

    So I think Trump's proposal has to be fleshed out a little bit.

    Yes, cancel all their paperwork and deport them. No doubt you’ll hear from them again, next time you get a spam-call from “IRS” or “Microsoft support”.

  105. @The Real and Original David
    He will issue that EO just as soon as he issues his other promised EO -- the one banning anchor babies.

    It's all bullshit.

    An executive order permanently banning immigration or even anchor babies is not going to stand-up in court. Even with a conservative Sup. Ct. it most likely will fail.

    Trump threatens stuff as a negotiating tactic. That one lead nowhere. But do you really believe he wouldn’t sign that bill if it hit his desk? I personally believe he would. I also personally believe even if the Republicans win the House, there isn’t enough spine there to send him that bill.

    This EO, if he issues it, will not deliver the results we desire. It’ll get hung up in court, and it can not be permanent anyways.

    But I’ll hang up and listen as you guys let me know about all the other politicians making headway on limiting immigration. Actually, I settle for a list that even talk about it. I’ll start: Sessions, King, …….

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Cotton, Perdue...
  106. I have already seen a few Republican “constitutionalists “ bemoaning this order. But they’ll be drown out.

    I’m sure we’ll hear the usual bleating about “that’s not who we are”.

    On the other hand, governments ordering people to stay 6 feet away from everybody, even from the other people in their own home, telling people how to shop, how to clean, how to exercise, shutting down religious services, people snitching on their fellow citizens, people telling other people to just follow orders and mindlessly obey whatever unelected technocrats and political hacks tell them to do……………

    ……………all that now IS who we are.

  107. @SOL
    Anyone know if the problems Zoom is having with security are related to the use of H1Bs or foreign-born coders/engineers?

    Supposedly the zoom ceo is a Chinese national who was denied a visa 8 times. What more do you need to know?

    • Replies: @peterike

    Supposedly the zoom ceo is a Chinese national who was denied a visa 8 times. What more do you need to know?
     
    Zoom beat the pants off Webex by being a much more user friendly product. After Cisco bought Webex the product -- already clunky -- just floundered. Cisco did next to nothing to enhance it. Zoom came in at a much lower price point, better features and fantastic ease of use.

    Even now a lot of the "security" issues are user error and bad default configurations (blame your IT department).

    But anyway, so Zoom is owned by a Chinese guy, huh? Gosh, I wonder if Zoom, which can record sessions, is secretly recording communications from organizations of interest to the Chinese government. Has anybody looked into that yet? It would be dead simple for Zoom to do this without anyone being aware and in fact it would have been a brilliant industrial and government espionage move for the Chi gov to have funded the whole thing.

  108. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    "That’s why we locked the country down." - Carlson

    I know you know this, Hail, but, for the rest of you, we must never fail to push back against this nonsense. We did not lock the country down. States - primarily those governed by Democrats - shut down sectors of the economy. But they did not shut down everything, and for the most part, the burden of suffering fell disproportionately on small and medium businesses while the giants of Globohomo were spared.

    (By the way, this is, of course, sufficient evidence that "big government" and "big system" are part of the same system.)

    I know you know this, Hail, but, for the rest of you, we must never fail to push back against this nonsense. We did not lock the country down. States – primarily those governed by Democrats – shut down sectors of the economy. But they did not shut down everything, and for the most part, the burden of suffering fell disproportionately on small and medium businesses while the giants of Globohomo were spared.

    That’s exactly right. It is small businesses who are affected the most by the Lockdown. And old retail giants like J.C. Penny and Nieman-Marcus, but they were circling the drain anyway. But Walmart and Home Depot are still open and will weather this. Amazon is flourishing – not the people who work there but Jeff Bezos himself.

    And the mainstream media rolled out what seemed like pre-packaged slogans and PR campaigns: “Safe at Home”, “Alone Together”, “All in this together – 6 feet apart”, spewed out PSAs with vacuous celebrities telling us to stay home, and lionized health-care workers*, all while encouraging people to hunker down in their prole-caves and drink, toke, binge-watch Netflix, and order takeout from Tacobell.

    *James Corbett pointed out how “healthcare workers” are now being held up as the heroes in this new “War on Death”, just as soldiers were lionized during the “War on Terror”. Remember “Support our Troops” and “Thankyou for your service”? Corbett also mentions they are just as likely to be used and discarded as were all those soldiers were.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    You watch the Corbett Report?
  109. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:

    For the record guest workers do not pay taxes.

    “Exemption from Withholding of U.S. Federal Income Tax and U.S. FICA Taxes

    Foreign agricultural workers temporarily admitted into the United States on H-2A visas are exempt from U.S. Social Security and Medicare taxes on compensation paid to them for services performed in connection with the H-2A visa. This is true whether they are resident aliens or nonresident aliens. In addition, compensation paid to H-2A agricultural workers for services performed in connection with the H-2A visa is not subject to mandatory withholding of U.S. federal income tax unless Backup Withholding applies (See below).”
    IRS

    “Under this temporary final rule, all H-2A petitioners with a valid temporary labor certification (TLC) can now start employing certain foreign workers who are currently in the United States and in valid H-2A status immediately after USCIS receives the H-2A petition, but no earlier than the start date of employment listed on the petition.

    Additionally, USCIS is temporarily amending its regulations to allow H-2A workers to stay beyond the three-year maximum allowable period of stay in the United States. These temporary changes will encourage and facilitate the lawful employment of foreign temporary and seasonal agriculture workers during the COVID-19 national emergency.”
    https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2a-temporary-agricultural-workers

  110. @Polynikes
    An executive order permanently banning immigration or even anchor babies is not going to stand-up in court. Even with a conservative Sup. Ct. it most likely will fail.

    Trump threatens stuff as a negotiating tactic. That one lead nowhere. But do you really believe he wouldn't sign that bill if it hit his desk? I personally believe he would. I also personally believe even if the Republicans win the House, there isn't enough spine there to send him that bill.

    This EO, if he issues it, will not deliver the results we desire. It'll get hung up in court, and it can not be permanent anyways.

    But I'll hang up and listen as you guys let me know about all the other politicians making headway on limiting immigration. Actually, I settle for a list that even talk about it. I'll start: Sessions, King, .......

    Cotton, Perdue…

  111. @Anonymous
    <>
    BTW, SARS-CoV-2 (Corona-chan) is turning out to be the Comet Kohoutek of viruses.

    In 1973, the world and all of us amateur astronomers got all hyped up about an approaching comet that was going to be spectacular. It turned out to be a dud.
    <>

    Yes, but without it, it is unlikely we ever would have gotten Lucifer's Hammer. : )

    Which leads me to ask: didn't Steve Sailer know Jerry Pournelle? If so, are there any stories he could share?

    (Also: am I the only one who happens to be reading LH at the moment?)

    Lucifer’s Hammer is a great, detailed fictionalization of a possible SHTF scenario. I re-read it again a few months ago. The big lesson I took away from it was that coordination with a tight-knit, like-minded community is the essential factor for survival. A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won’t last a month!

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Muggles
    >>Lucifer’s Hammer is a great, detailed fictionalization of a possible SHTF scenario. I re-read it again a few months ago. The big lesson I took away from it was that coordination with a tight-knit, like-minded community is the essential factor for survival. A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won’t last a month!<<

    Great comment.

    It reminds me of a great post Pandemic followup research topic. Namely, what about preppers and prepping? Hard to know now, but soon we can find some and ask. How many of them were better off than average folks? Many seem to already be in rural areas so aside from possible medical supplies they aren't much better off than neighbors. We should ask.

    Now urban preppers are either "at home" stockpilers or those who have obtained out of town hidey- holes or safe houses in rural areas. There are even a few (supposed) communities of very rich folks who have bought into high end "prepper communities" to ride out disasters (nuclear war, urban rioting, etc.) So, did any of them go there? Was it worth the time/cost? Or were their toilet paper stockpiles as bad as everyone elses? (I have always had a several months supply of TP on hand. Better than gold or ammo...) My hunch is, that preppers are usually fighting the last war.
    , @Adam Smith
    A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won’t last a month is a target.
  112. @Dtbb
    Trump, don't skate around the issue. Baby, please go all the way!
    https://youtu.be/9lsl7h2j8Aw

    Well that’s the post of the day. Here’s another noteworthy roller-vid (10 million views but just in case anyone missed it)

    There’s another with the gal from the St Petersburg String Quartet playing violin while skateboarding, but you can find that one yourselves

  113. @Kaz
    A lot of tourism in the US is internal, not sure how they're going to manage that with the way everyone is scared.

    New Zealand have already accepted there will be no tourism in 2020. They've gone the path of eradicating the disease in their borders since they caught it before it went critical. The perks of being an isolated sparsely populated island..

    But, they can't afford loosening restrictions until the disease is fully gone which may be years from now with this strategy... They're not aiming to flatten any curve or herd immunity..

    Seems kinda overkill for a disease that naturally wouldn't affect them much to begin with but I guess we'll see in a few months who was right...

    NZ’s libs are besides themselves with how brilliant they are and how Jacinda is the greatest leader in the history of the world (that is scarcely an exageration). Many others are not so sure, and disquiet is certainly there and growing. Has the govt cratered the economy unnecessarily? We will see.

    One silver lining is that the out of control international tourism industry that was despoiling so much of the country will get a haircut, and NZers will actually be able to see some of the best spots themselves now. It is remarkable how many kiwis have not been to the places that overseas tourists tend to go.

  114. @Anon
    Supposedly the zoom ceo is a Chinese national who was denied a visa 8 times. What more do you need to know?

    Supposedly the zoom ceo is a Chinese national who was denied a visa 8 times. What more do you need to know?

    Zoom beat the pants off Webex by being a much more user friendly product. After Cisco bought Webex the product — already clunky — just floundered. Cisco did next to nothing to enhance it. Zoom came in at a much lower price point, better features and fantastic ease of use.

    Even now a lot of the “security” issues are user error and bad default configurations (blame your IT department).

    But anyway, so Zoom is owned by a Chinese guy, huh? Gosh, I wonder if Zoom, which can record sessions, is secretly recording communications from organizations of interest to the Chinese government. Has anybody looked into that yet? It would be dead simple for Zoom to do this without anyone being aware and in fact it would have been a brilliant industrial and government espionage move for the Chi gov to have funded the whole thing.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Webex blows, but Zoom is not getting installed on my computer. Google can spy on me when I use Hangouts.
  115. @Farenheit
    Humm, an exemption for health care workers? Is being a doctor or nurse a job Americans won't do?

    A few years back, there was the Ebola outbreak and the world heath apparatus went into motion to get it under control. After the outbreak one of the big health organizations did and "after action analysis" to determine lessons learned.

    One of their key findings was the African nations had difficulty executing to the plan because so many of their best doctors and nurses were working in Europe.

    I live in Silicon Valley, were a good 90% off Drs are foreign, mostly Indian. I routinely joke " It must be great living in India, their health care is so good they can take all their excesses doctors and ship them off."

    At what point is the so called left going to start calling out the immorality of strip mining the most capable medical professionals of undeveloped societies, so they can lance our boils and "enhance" our women?

    I think the poaching of other countries’ medical personnel has to stop too. But it is done by lots of first world countries and no one besides me and a few others ever seem to complain. Saying this is the fault of the left is plain wrong. Everyone has been wrong on this for more than a generation now. Shame on all rich countries who take doctors and nurses away from poor countries.

    • Agree: Luke Lea
    • Replies: @Cowboy shaw
    It's disgraceful. The much vaunted Australian style points immigration systems are deeply immoral.
    , @Jim Don Bob

    Shame on all rich countries who take doctors and nurses away from poor countries.
     
    C'mon, man. We didn't bring them here at gun point. They were eager to come, because they know they will have a better life and make lots more money than in their own country.

    Lagos, Nigeria or Memphis, Tennessee? Hmmm, lemme think about that for a while . . .
  116. Anonymous[403] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill Jones
    Here's what you should be thinking about the economy.

    Black Gold has become the Anti-Gold. The front month contract is trading at a negative- people will pay you to take it away from them but there’s nowhere to store it.
    The contract closes today- if you own it at the close of trading you have to take delivery during May.

    Should be fun to watch.

    Gold on the other hand can’t be had for love nor money. Chicago’s changed the rules allowing physical delivery of gold to be satisfied by a paper contract promising physical delivery of gold.

    For the past five years I’ve been amazed at the speed of our civilizational collapse- I had no idea an economic collapse could be engineered in just 60 days.

    The China flu has brought about the Chinese curse: We live in interesting days.

    For the past five years I’ve been amazed at the speed of our civilizational collapse-

    What have you seen in the past five years that you believe is evidence of civilizational collapse?

  117. @Peter Akuleyev
    This is why Trump's proclamation is basically meaningless, this is just more theater for the masses (although, granted, a smart political move to get liberals to stay stupid things). There is just no push at the moment from immigrants to get into the US. If anything, people who have foreign passports should be trying to leave.

    The real test will be when the economy starts humming again in 12 months.

    Yes, and I doubt America will be back to status quo ante very soon. This massive spike in unemployment in America is unparalleled in its rapidity and size.

    And unlike every other recession or depression in American history its cause is so simple even a low information voter can grasp it in its entirety: the government told us we couldn’t work.

    The government told us we couldn’t work.

    So no media morality plays about greedy loan officers selling 750K homes to strawberry pickers, or banks slicing and dicing crap mortgages and dumping them on avaricious buyers, etc, etc.

    The government told us we couldn’t work.

    That’s only a knife edge away from ‘it’s the government’s responsibility to get me working again’, to ensure I get a job back.

    So while I do think immigration will continue, there will be a lot of pressure to not reopen the spigots until the unemployment rate is back to where it was before any shutdowns — and probably the lowest possible.

  118. Hail says: • Website
    @Intelligent Dasein
    Hi Buzz,

    I don't ordinarily like to criticize others' opinions by referring them back to their supposed personality traits. It's a bad habit easily abused, and I definitely dislike it when other people do it to me. However, there are moments when you just have to call a spade a spade.

    You'll notice that among those still pimping or at least excusing the CoronaPanic, apart from the rapidly dwindling number of true believers, two types of personalities predominate: 1) The braggarts with an authoritarian streak who have found a convenient cudgel with which to slap everyone else around---these are the people who will always do what "the power" is doing; and 2) The good-boy/quants who see the world through the narrow lens of mathematical models and who embrace the current episode as a golden opportunity to show off their typically unillustrious skill sets (e.g. Fauci, Steve, Ron, and several commenters who shall remain nameless).

    Of course, the good-boy and the braggart are really the same thing under different aspects, so I guess it's actually just one personality type, but it isn't the one that's needed in the public sphere. Anybody who felt a true sense of responsibility to his society must be responsible for his entire society, for all of its members (in the Pauline sense) and their gestalt functioning. Crippling lockdowns like what we're experiencing never should have been on the table, ever. The whole idea bespeaks a total lack of leadership and a pathetic shallowness of understanding, not only of virology and economics but of human beings too.

    You’ll notice that among those still pimping or at least excusing the CoronaPanic, apart from the rapidly dwindling number of true believers, two types of personalities predominate: 1) The braggarts with an authoritarian streak who have found a convenient cudgel with which to slap everyone else around—these are the people who will always do what “the power” is doing; and 2) The good-boy/quants who see the world through the narrow lens of mathematical models

    I can see why the first group you name is still pushing it (along with their vast auxiliaries of ‘low-info’ CoronaProlefeed-consumers and the corona coup d’etat and political-crisis carcass-pickers like those claiming the virus is racist and lockdown protesters Hate Black People). But why the second group you name?

    It’s over, people. The data says the Corona Apocalypse was actually a seasonal flu, and the response literally thousands of times what was necessary, a disastrous escalation spiral of over-responses in March.

    As we have learned now, over and over again, this flu is a flu.”
    — Dr. Knut Wittkowski (holder of multiple relevant PhDs and thirty years of recognized expertise in epidemiology), April 15. (As of April 1, KW has been an open CoronaDenier and anti-CoronaPanic hardliner).

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    The end of your chart shows a down slope, but I don't know where it gets its core data. If it is like the CDC there is a lag where the update it. The CDC data takes about 3 weeks or so to fill out. By my estimation the first week is about 80% of the total. Then another 10% the next week. Then another 5-8% the week after that, with the rest trickling in over the following weeks. Interestingly, they are always "updating" their data even years after the fact as best as I can tell.

    So if Europe calculates like the CDC that end slope in your graph could be a plateau or maybe even rise a little. Of course, if there is no data lag then that graph shows them on the major downswing from their peak and headed back to normalcy.


    (On a side note, I wonder how they figure their baseline. Every year's peak exceeds the estimated peak by a considerable amount but there is rarely major drops below it.)
    , @Big Dick Bandit
    to all of the brain geniuses like yourself insisting “this isn’t so bad” or “(((they’re))) cooking the books!!!”: how do you explain the difference in expected vs actual all-cause mortality?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    the observable history of the disease affirms the disease is very bad. the serology affirms that we will have fewer very bad epidemic cycles of it than we thought we would (barring vaccine).
  119. @Hail

    You’ll notice that among those still pimping or at least excusing the CoronaPanic, apart from the rapidly dwindling number of true believers, two types of personalities predominate: 1) The braggarts with an authoritarian streak who have found a convenient cudgel with which to slap everyone else around—these are the people who will always do what “the power” is doing; and 2) The good-boy/quants who see the world through the narrow lens of mathematical models
     
    I can see why the first group you name is still pushing it (along with their vast auxiliaries of 'low-info' CoronaProlefeed-consumers and the corona coup d'etat and political-crisis carcass-pickers like those claiming the virus is racist and lockdown protesters Hate Black People). But why the second group you name?

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/euromomo-week-15-all-age-mortality.png

    It's over, people. The data says the Corona Apocalypse was actually a seasonal flu, and the response literally thousands of times what was necessary, a disastrous escalation spiral of over-responses in March.

    As we have learned now, over and over again, this flu is a flu.”
    — Dr. Knut Wittkowski (holder of multiple relevant PhDs and thirty years of recognized expertise in epidemiology), April 15. (As of April 1, KW has been an open CoronaDenier and anti-CoronaPanic hardliner).

    The end of your chart shows a down slope, but I don’t know where it gets its core data. If it is like the CDC there is a lag where the update it. The CDC data takes about 3 weeks or so to fill out. By my estimation the first week is about 80% of the total. Then another 10% the next week. Then another 5-8% the week after that, with the rest trickling in over the following weeks. Interestingly, they are always “updating” their data even years after the fact as best as I can tell.

    So if Europe calculates like the CDC that end slope in your graph could be a plateau or maybe even rise a little. Of course, if there is no data lag then that graph shows them on the major downswing from their peak and headed back to normalcy.

    (On a side note, I wonder how they figure their baseline. Every year’s peak exceeds the estimated peak by a considerable amount but there is rarely major drops below it.)

    • Replies: @Hail

    I wonder how they figure their baseline. Every year’s peak exceeds the estimated peak by a considerable amount but there is rarely major drops below it
     
    Good point. They are clearly using a high degree of smoothing. We see in previous data no major peak-flu events and associated death spikes in either 2013-14 or 2015-16, and total mortality stayed within the normal range throughout the year:

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/euromomo-2014-to-2018.png

    This also applied to 2019-20 until March, with almost no weeks above the upper-normal line.

    This means of the last seven seasons, three were in the normal range thru Feb., three had significant spikes, and one had a mild spike (2018-19). In many countries, there were no seasonal excess deaths in 2018-19, notably Italy and the UK, two countries hardest hit by the current flu spike. This I interpret as an accumulation of low-hanging fruit for the Grim Reaper, people who if peak-flu-activity were ongoing would less likely have survived the previous two winters, and have now gone onto the other side with this epidemic. Two mild seasons in a row may itself explain some of the coronavirus deaths.
    , @Hail

    I don’t know where it gets its core data. If it is like the CDC there is a lag where the update it. The CDC data takes about 3 weeks or so to fill out
     
    It is compiled from the national health authorities in the specific European countries. I have seen in a report on EuroMOMO methodology that each country has its own reporting delay. The specific-country graphs they have two lines, initial-reported and delay-adjusted. The all-country aggregated total-deaths graph I posted above shows only the running delay-adjusted line.

    A lot of countries have a death-plus-72-hours reporting rate up near 100%. In Italy's case, it is (or has been in the past) 100%. For others it is less, but none afaict have lots of deaths they only get around to reporting a month later. You're right that there will be an upward correction, but the magnitude will be small, smaller than the US'. (Just like elections taking much longer to have final results in the US, vs. end-of-the-night final results in European countries, an observation often made by Steve Sailer.)

    The rightmost portion of the line you see there is pegged to April 12 (the end of Reporting Week 15), which roughly reflects almost the great majority of deaths through ca. April 9. However, April 10-13 is the long Easter weekend, and EuroMOMO said some countries have had slightly longer lags than usual due to the holiday in the past.

    Other data suggests Europe's new infection rate peaked in March, in some cases even early March (in Italy it must be Feb.), hospitalizations peaked later, and deaths peaked by either late March or early April. As best I can tell, the true magnitude of the decline in total deaths will not be as sharp as the one in the graph, but not too far off, when Week 16 data is released late this week.

  120. @JohnnyWalker123
    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven't yet adjusted to permanent residence.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who've applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven't been issued with official documents due to visa caps.

    What happens to these two groups of people?

    A. who cares?

    B. I dont imagine that either of these groups would be affected

  121. Hail says: • Website
    @Polynikes
    The end of your chart shows a down slope, but I don't know where it gets its core data. If it is like the CDC there is a lag where the update it. The CDC data takes about 3 weeks or so to fill out. By my estimation the first week is about 80% of the total. Then another 10% the next week. Then another 5-8% the week after that, with the rest trickling in over the following weeks. Interestingly, they are always "updating" their data even years after the fact as best as I can tell.

    So if Europe calculates like the CDC that end slope in your graph could be a plateau or maybe even rise a little. Of course, if there is no data lag then that graph shows them on the major downswing from their peak and headed back to normalcy.


    (On a side note, I wonder how they figure their baseline. Every year's peak exceeds the estimated peak by a considerable amount but there is rarely major drops below it.)

    I wonder how they figure their baseline. Every year’s peak exceeds the estimated peak by a considerable amount but there is rarely major drops below it

    Good point. They are clearly using a high degree of smoothing. We see in previous data no major peak-flu events and associated death spikes in either 2013-14 or 2015-16, and total mortality stayed within the normal range throughout the year:

    This also applied to 2019-20 until March, with almost no weeks above the upper-normal line.

    This means of the last seven seasons, three were in the normal range thru Feb., three had significant spikes, and one had a mild spike (2018-19). In many countries, there were no seasonal excess deaths in 2018-19, notably Italy and the UK, two countries hardest hit by the current flu spike. This I interpret as an accumulation of low-hanging fruit for the Grim Reaper, people who if peak-flu-activity were ongoing would less likely have survived the previous two winters, and have now gone onto the other side with this epidemic. Two mild seasons in a row may itself explain some of the coronavirus deaths.

  122. Hail says: • Website
    @Polynikes
    The end of your chart shows a down slope, but I don't know where it gets its core data. If it is like the CDC there is a lag where the update it. The CDC data takes about 3 weeks or so to fill out. By my estimation the first week is about 80% of the total. Then another 10% the next week. Then another 5-8% the week after that, with the rest trickling in over the following weeks. Interestingly, they are always "updating" their data even years after the fact as best as I can tell.

    So if Europe calculates like the CDC that end slope in your graph could be a plateau or maybe even rise a little. Of course, if there is no data lag then that graph shows them on the major downswing from their peak and headed back to normalcy.


    (On a side note, I wonder how they figure their baseline. Every year's peak exceeds the estimated peak by a considerable amount but there is rarely major drops below it.)

    I don’t know where it gets its core data. If it is like the CDC there is a lag where the update it. The CDC data takes about 3 weeks or so to fill out

    It is compiled from the national health authorities in the specific European countries. I have seen in a report on EuroMOMO methodology that each country has its own reporting delay. The specific-country graphs they have two lines, initial-reported and delay-adjusted. The all-country aggregated total-deaths graph I posted above shows only the running delay-adjusted line.

    A lot of countries have a death-plus-72-hours reporting rate up near 100%. In Italy’s case, it is (or has been in the past) 100%. For others it is less, but none afaict have lots of deaths they only get around to reporting a month later. You’re right that there will be an upward correction, but the magnitude will be small, smaller than the US’. (Just like elections taking much longer to have final results in the US, vs. end-of-the-night final results in European countries, an observation often made by Steve Sailer.)

    The rightmost portion of the line you see there is pegged to April 12 (the end of Reporting Week 15), which roughly reflects almost the great majority of deaths through ca. April 9. However, April 10-13 is the long Easter weekend, and EuroMOMO said some countries have had slightly longer lags than usual due to the holiday in the past.

    Other data suggests Europe’s new infection rate peaked in March, in some cases even early March (in Italy it must be Feb.), hospitalizations peaked later, and deaths peaked by either late March or early April. As best I can tell, the true magnitude of the decline in total deaths will not be as sharp as the one in the graph, but not too far off, when Week 16 data is released late this week.

    • Thanks: Polynikes
    • Replies: @Hail

    Other data suggests Europe’s new infection rate peaked in March, in some cases even early March (in Italy it must be Feb.)
     
    Of interest on that point:

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/coronavirus-r0-in-germany-march-6-to-april-9.png

    The latest from the Robert Koch Institute, Germany's public health agency. The graph speaks for itself .... on the non-usefulness of the CoronaLockdown and the need to re-open ASAP.

    [The] epidemic curves ... are declining, as I predicted, including in most European and North-American countries, irrespective of whether social distancing was imposed on their citizens and, if so, when and how.

    Hence, there is no evidence that social distancing had an effect that could justify shutting the economy down, causing >22M people to lose their jobs, and spending trillions of dollars [...]

    Dr. Knut Wittkowski, April 15
     
  123. @notsaying
    I think the poaching of other countries' medical personnel has to stop too. But it is done by lots of first world countries and no one besides me and a few others ever seem to complain. Saying this is the fault of the left is plain wrong. Everyone has been wrong on this for more than a generation now. Shame on all rich countries who take doctors and nurses away from poor countries.

    It’s disgraceful. The much vaunted Australian style points immigration systems are deeply immoral.

  124. @Anonymous
    Steve Sailer:

    "But Think of the Economy!"

    Considering that the U.S is now the global hot spot of the coronavirus, this makes no sense. It is the rest of the World that should create laws to protect them from Americans immigrating there

    Considering that the U.S is now the global hot spot of the coronavirus, this makes no sense. It is the rest of the World that should create laws to protect them from Americans immigrating there

    If I want to live in a foreign country, walk around ankle deep in litter and eat mysterious glop the rest of my life I’ll just move to Queens.

  125. @YetAnotherAnon
    OT - the UK taxman's list of tax cheats looks remarkably like the General Medical Council's list of incompetent/criminal doctors, only with more Chinese/Romanians/Ukrainians.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/publishing-details-of-deliberate-tax-defaulters-pddd/current-list-of-deliberate-tax-defaulters

    Takeaway food, restaurants and convenience stores feature prominently.

    I was in the queue to get into a bulk food warehouse last week and the Sikh guy behind me, a smallish greybeard, was counting out what must have been £1,000 in £20 notes. Trusting chap doing that in public, I thought - then I noticed the next guy in the queue, a very large Sikh, obviously his security. When we all got in, they walked round together.

    HMRC could pick its targets by simply comparing people's tax returns with the vehicles they drive - the guy on £25k driving a big new Mercedes 4x4, for example.

    HMRC is very likely poring over all sorts of financial transactions during the shutdown involving the owners of businesses that have a high cash throughput. The taxman’s favourite target for investigation may return to an environment tweaked to cut off some more of the blatant avenues of evasion.

    The sterling work of the DVLA in closing down the abuse of the “caravanette” coding by businesses should be useful as a model.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    You have more faith in HMRC than I do. Apart from anything else, there's such a thing as disparate impact aka "indirect discrimination" in UK law.

    The people I see paying cash in large amounts at the warehouse are always Asian, don't think I've ever seen a Native Brit doing it.

    The sterling work of the DVLA in closing down the abuse of the “caravanette” coding by businesses should be useful as a model.
     
    I thought I knew my small business tax, not heard of this though - what is (or was) it?
  126. @Joseph Doaks
    Lucifer’s Hammer is a great, detailed fictionalization of a possible SHTF scenario. I re-read it again a few months ago. The big lesson I took away from it was that coordination with a tight-knit, like-minded community is the essential factor for survival. A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won't last a month!

    >>Lucifer’s Hammer is a great, detailed fictionalization of a possible SHTF scenario. I re-read it again a few months ago. The big lesson I took away from it was that coordination with a tight-knit, like-minded community is the essential factor for survival. A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won’t last a month!<<

    Great comment.

    It reminds me of a great post Pandemic followup research topic. Namely, what about preppers and prepping? Hard to know now, but soon we can find some and ask. How many of them were better off than average folks? Many seem to already be in rural areas so aside from possible medical supplies they aren't much better off than neighbors. We should ask.

    Now urban preppers are either "at home" stockpilers or those who have obtained out of town hidey- holes or safe houses in rural areas. There are even a few (supposed) communities of very rich folks who have bought into high end "prepper communities" to ride out disasters (nuclear war, urban rioting, etc.) So, did any of them go there? Was it worth the time/cost? Or were their toilet paper stockpiles as bad as everyone elses? (I have always had a several months supply of TP on hand. Better than gold or ammo…) My hunch is, that preppers are usually fighting the last war.

    • Replies: @anon
    How many real preppers would you expect to answer your questions?
    , @eD
    If you are going to be under house arrest, having a big house or property would be nice. So I think the preppers got that part right.
  127. Hail says: • Website
    @Hail

    I don’t know where it gets its core data. If it is like the CDC there is a lag where the update it. The CDC data takes about 3 weeks or so to fill out
     
    It is compiled from the national health authorities in the specific European countries. I have seen in a report on EuroMOMO methodology that each country has its own reporting delay. The specific-country graphs they have two lines, initial-reported and delay-adjusted. The all-country aggregated total-deaths graph I posted above shows only the running delay-adjusted line.

    A lot of countries have a death-plus-72-hours reporting rate up near 100%. In Italy's case, it is (or has been in the past) 100%. For others it is less, but none afaict have lots of deaths they only get around to reporting a month later. You're right that there will be an upward correction, but the magnitude will be small, smaller than the US'. (Just like elections taking much longer to have final results in the US, vs. end-of-the-night final results in European countries, an observation often made by Steve Sailer.)

    The rightmost portion of the line you see there is pegged to April 12 (the end of Reporting Week 15), which roughly reflects almost the great majority of deaths through ca. April 9. However, April 10-13 is the long Easter weekend, and EuroMOMO said some countries have had slightly longer lags than usual due to the holiday in the past.

    Other data suggests Europe's new infection rate peaked in March, in some cases even early March (in Italy it must be Feb.), hospitalizations peaked later, and deaths peaked by either late March or early April. As best I can tell, the true magnitude of the decline in total deaths will not be as sharp as the one in the graph, but not too far off, when Week 16 data is released late this week.

    Other data suggests Europe’s new infection rate peaked in March, in some cases even early March (in Italy it must be Feb.)

    Of interest on that point:

    The latest from the Robert Koch Institute, Germany’s public health agency. The graph speaks for itself …. on the non-usefulness of the CoronaLockdown and the need to re-open ASAP.

    [The] epidemic curves … are declining, as I predicted, including in most European and North-American countries, irrespective of whether social distancing was imposed on their citizens and, if so, when and how.

    Hence, there is no evidence that social distancing had an effect that could justify shutting the economy down, causing >22M people to lose their jobs, and spending trillions of dollars […]

    Dr. Knut Wittkowski, April 15

  128. @Hail

    @Steve, the moratorium takes advantage of the short term panic. Media, politicians, cause short term panic to enforce the shutdown discipline.
     
    Why did DJT do an announcement/move/stunt like this only on April 20? Why not March 20, for example, with CoronaPanic young and fresh?

    By April 20, if DJT has halfway competent advisers, and if the crazed, Rasputin-like shutdown-fanatic Fauci no longer runs the show, Trump will know that the coronavirus pandemic is effectively over, is long past its peak, whatever it was.

    He ought not need any advisers to tell him that there was effectively an opportunistic coup d'etat attempt with this virus, which largely succeeded. All that's left to do is score points off the crisis and take advantage of the lingering impression that there is an ongoing crisis, possibly enforced by the media, as this whole insane and surreal episdoe has been all along. In other words, while Coronavirus Coverage has always been 'prolefeed' to an extent, now it is "super-deluxe prolefeed." omething people in the know will increasingly be aware is fake, a series of cynical attempts all around to gain points over rivals. Few or none will be issuing apologies for ruining so many lives for nothing.

    Another unexpected negative here that occurs to me: Ironically this gets some core-Trump-2016 people in favor of continuing the National Emergency and the insane Shutdowns, which we so badly need to lift.

    They never, ever, apologize for the lives they’ve ruined. That would mean admitting that they didn’t have our best interests at heart after all.

  129. @Jim Don Bob

    changing the rules in the middle of the game for these people kinda sucks.
     
    I dunno. I can't remember anybody running for office who promised to throw thousands of American programmers out of work and replace them with subCon H1Bs so the FANGs could add billions to their stock value, but that's what we got.

    The FANGs do use some H1Bs, but the _cost savings_ from that are not that large, per person, and not amaterial piece of their success, imo.

    The contracting and outsourcing houses… OTOH, those (or sections of them anyway) are more akin to farmers or construction companies whose business model depends on paying well below market for a significant portion of their workforce, have crappy work conditions etc.

    (though, yes overall in a supply and demand sense H1Bs certainly lower wages and job security of Americans with whom they compete.)

    • Replies: @anon
    The FANGs do use some H1Bs, but the _cost savings_ from that are not that large, per person, and not amaterial piece of their success, imo

    1. How do you know what the FANG H1b utilization is, or what their cost structure is?
    2. Assuming you are correct, why do the FANG's defend H1b and demand more of them?
    3. When was the last time you personally knew someone who got hired by Google or MSFT? Did they look much like James Damore? Or not so much?
    , @XYZ (no Mr.)
    FANGS only account for a small number of the total employed software engineers in Silicon Valley; the vast majority of the rest are not contract houses. Huge companies like Cisco have engineering departments that are almost all Indian. The valley is also full of software companies with revenues between 1 to 10 billion a year that are not common household names. These companies are full of H-1Bs or former H-1Bs: this is precisely why the technical workforce in Silicon Valley became 75 percent foreign born. So the issue of supply is certainly not minor.

    Without the H-1B visa some of this software development would have indeed been offshored, so I don't claim every H-1B is an American job loss. But there have been quite a lot, and anyway, fewer software engineers locally would have resulted in a lot less housing pressure.

    Like most immigration, the main benefits end up going to wealthy Americans and the immigrants themselves. Most American-born do not benefit at all -- it's not even neutral, but a net loss.

    And of course pointing this out isn't anti-immigrant at all, just a plain fact. I've met plenty of immigrants I've admired, and I'm a civic nationalist anyway. Yet I'm under no compunction to humor any potential hurt feelings when I describe the negative impacts immigration can have on the American people, and the need for strict limitation. A good test of assimilation is if immigrants themselves feel the same way. Some still do, even now.

  130. @notsaying
    I think the poaching of other countries' medical personnel has to stop too. But it is done by lots of first world countries and no one besides me and a few others ever seem to complain. Saying this is the fault of the left is plain wrong. Everyone has been wrong on this for more than a generation now. Shame on all rich countries who take doctors and nurses away from poor countries.

    Shame on all rich countries who take doctors and nurses away from poor countries.

    C’mon, man. We didn’t bring them here at gun point. They were eager to come, because they know they will have a better life and make lots more money than in their own country.

    Lagos, Nigeria or Memphis, Tennessee? Hmmm, lemme think about that for a while . . .

    • Replies: @notsaying
    I am sure that's the argument that people make who benefit from poaching. But I would argue that no nation is secure and functioning well and properly if it cannot or does not produce its own medical professionals. We foolishly and improperly rely on Africa, India, the Phillipines and similar places to supply doctors and nurses for no good reason. It is because we are too lazy and cheap to make the necessary changes to our medical education and employment practices.

    As long as we Rob the third world of what it needs, its people will try to come here. We ourselves make their miserable lives worse. Can you imagine how awful it must be to live in one of these places and see every year how many medical people leave after their education was paid for by your poor government?
  131. @Mr. Anon

    I know you know this, Hail, but, for the rest of you, we must never fail to push back against this nonsense. We did not lock the country down. States – primarily those governed by Democrats – shut down sectors of the economy. But they did not shut down everything, and for the most part, the burden of suffering fell disproportionately on small and medium businesses while the giants of Globohomo were spared.
     
    That's exactly right. It is small businesses who are affected the most by the Lockdown. And old retail giants like J.C. Penny and Nieman-Marcus, but they were circling the drain anyway. But Walmart and Home Depot are still open and will weather this. Amazon is flourishing - not the people who work there but Jeff Bezos himself.

    And the mainstream media rolled out what seemed like pre-packaged slogans and PR campaigns: "Safe at Home", "Alone Together", "All in this together - 6 feet apart", spewed out PSAs with vacuous celebrities telling us to stay home, and lionized health-care workers*, all while encouraging people to hunker down in their prole-caves and drink, toke, binge-watch Netflix, and order takeout from Tacobell.

    *James Corbett pointed out how "healthcare workers" are now being held up as the heroes in this new "War on Death", just as soldiers were lionized during the "War on Terror". Remember "Support our Troops" and "Thankyou for your service"? Corbett also mentions they are just as likely to be used and discarded as were all those soldiers were.

    You watch the Corbett Report?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    You watch the Corbett Report?
     
    I think I saw a podcast with him and somebody else a year or so ago and was favorably impressed. I have only recently come across his website. I think he has some interesting stuff, and I've become a more regular viewer.
    , @Hail
    One thing is for sure: James Corbett's stock has gone up.

    I can't vouch for everything he says/thinks/believes/does, because I am not that familiar with the full body of his work. But he has been a CoronaSkeptic all along and emerged as an anti-CoronaPanic hardliner relatively early. Unafraid, unbowed, bold, and right.

  132. anon[306] • Disclaimer says:
    @vhrm
    The FANGs do use some H1Bs, but the _cost savings_ from that are not that large, per person, and not amaterial piece of their success, imo.

    The contracting and outsourcing houses... OTOH, those (or sections of them anyway) are more akin to farmers or construction companies whose business model depends on paying well below market for a significant portion of their workforce, have crappy work conditions etc.

    (though, yes overall in a supply and demand sense H1Bs certainly lower wages and job security of Americans with whom they compete.)

    The FANGs do use some H1Bs, but the _cost savings_ from that are not that large, per person, and not amaterial piece of their success, imo

    1. How do you know what the FANG H1b utilization is, or what their cost structure is?
    2. Assuming you are correct, why do the FANG’s defend H1b and demand more of them?
    3. When was the last time you personally knew someone who got hired by Google or MSFT? Did they look much like James Damore? Or not so much?

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Some general data:

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/17/h-1b-foreign-citizens-make-up-nearly-three-quarters-of-silicon-valley-tech-workforce-report-says/

    Some specific company data -- link is at very bottom:
    A couple of comments here:
    1) These are new applications PER YEAR.
    H-1B visas last 7 years.
    So if you are a company that requests say,
    4000 visas for 2017, you probably have
    25,000 H-1Bs on your payroll.

    2) As another gentlemen commenter who is an
    H-1Ber on this thread has mentioned, if you
    have applied for a Green Card, your H-1B
    does not expire until you get a decision on your
    Green Card. That could take years.
    These H-1Bs aren't counted against any quota
    or limit. They just exist.
    Companies employ them by the hundreds of
    thousands.

    3) Most H-1Bs are in software or engineering.
    Not human resources.
    Not sales.
    Not finance.
    So a company with 80,000 employees can point
    to a yearly H-1B application of a few thousand
    and say 'What's the fuss all about? It's a tiny
    amount of our employees.'
    When in reality a large tech company most
    likely has a large majority of its 10,000 to
    20,000 strong engineering department filled
    with H-1Bs and former H-1Bs.

    And the US Government says: 'our workforce is
    150 million strong, why are you complaining
    about 85,000 measly people a year?'

    And so the game is played.

    Oh, and OPT and H-1B are not the same.
    OPT is 3 years automatic.

    https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

    , @vhrm

    1. How do you know what the FANG H1b utilization is, or what their cost structure is?

    2. Assuming you are correct, why do the FANG’s defend H1b and demand more of them?
     
    I don't know in any rigorous way. Just guessing from being in the area (physically and vocationally), and based on the h1b people i've worked with over the years at various companies.

    To put it in terms that would scandalized normies but should be fine here, these companies tend to hire high IQ people. And they want to fish in the largest pool possible. They're willing to pay to brain drain other countries, and they don't want legal obstacles to that. That's why they are for more H1Bs.

    Does this lower my job prospects and wages... probably.

    3. When was the last time you personally knew someone who got hired by Google or MSFT? Did they look much like James Damore? Or not so much?
     
    Past several years i know some people who went to FB, some to Amazon and some from Amazon, google and MSFT.
    4 are American born whites. 2 are American born Chinese. 1 Greece born Greek (but already a citizen) :-)

    Idk what the actual percentages are, but these companies hire a lot of white people and a lot of East Asians (mostly Chinese). But many of the white people aren't necessarily old stock Americans. There are lots of immigrants and children of immigrants, especially Eastern Block, but really from everywhere (Israelis, South Africans, Argentinians )

    Smartest American kids don't get into tech anymore i think, at least not as coders, or not for long. They go into finance and business. (<- feeling/ impression from reading stuff over the years; haven't looked it up recently)
  133. @Muggles
    >>Lucifer’s Hammer is a great, detailed fictionalization of a possible SHTF scenario. I re-read it again a few months ago. The big lesson I took away from it was that coordination with a tight-knit, like-minded community is the essential factor for survival. A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won’t last a month!<<

    Great comment.

    It reminds me of a great post Pandemic followup research topic. Namely, what about preppers and prepping? Hard to know now, but soon we can find some and ask. How many of them were better off than average folks? Many seem to already be in rural areas so aside from possible medical supplies they aren't much better off than neighbors. We should ask.

    Now urban preppers are either "at home" stockpilers or those who have obtained out of town hidey- holes or safe houses in rural areas. There are even a few (supposed) communities of very rich folks who have bought into high end "prepper communities" to ride out disasters (nuclear war, urban rioting, etc.) So, did any of them go there? Was it worth the time/cost? Or were their toilet paper stockpiles as bad as everyone elses? (I have always had a several months supply of TP on hand. Better than gold or ammo...) My hunch is, that preppers are usually fighting the last war.

    How many real preppers would you expect to answer your questions?

    • Replies: @Muggles
    >>How many real preppers would you expect to answer your questions?<<

    Yes, finding research subjects on security matters is always a problem to be solved. However there are many publications, websites, etc. where preppers seem quite happy to provide advice and brag about their foresight. Some sell products also.

    A credible (to them) social scientist surveyor can promise anonymity to responders or simply pose the question on one of many of the existing online website comment sections or blogs. Most preppers already post under pseudonyms.

    I suspect when the dust settles there will be among them some honest people who will be happy discuss what they did or didn't do. Some of course were prepared for this in some fashion. As for the big commercial prepper retreats, that will be harder but since they are selling a service/product, salesmen exist and often have loose lips for potential customers.

    Certainly this experience will add to the information about the items and products/medicines preppers might need or want in the future.

    For the paranoid crazies, of course they will hide in silence. They are best avoided in any case and in my experience are more talk than action.

  134. @Dtbb
    Trump, don't skate around the issue. Baby, please go all the way!
    https://youtu.be/9lsl7h2j8Aw

    Trump is nimble enough to get around court orders if he puts his mind to it.

  135. @vhrm
    The FANGs do use some H1Bs, but the _cost savings_ from that are not that large, per person, and not amaterial piece of their success, imo.

    The contracting and outsourcing houses... OTOH, those (or sections of them anyway) are more akin to farmers or construction companies whose business model depends on paying well below market for a significant portion of their workforce, have crappy work conditions etc.

    (though, yes overall in a supply and demand sense H1Bs certainly lower wages and job security of Americans with whom they compete.)

    FANGS only account for a small number of the total employed software engineers in Silicon Valley; the vast majority of the rest are not contract houses. Huge companies like Cisco have engineering departments that are almost all Indian. The valley is also full of software companies with revenues between 1 to 10 billion a year that are not common household names. These companies are full of H-1Bs or former H-1Bs: this is precisely why the technical workforce in Silicon Valley became 75 percent foreign born. So the issue of supply is certainly not minor.

    Without the H-1B visa some of this software development would have indeed been offshored, so I don’t claim every H-1B is an American job loss. But there have been quite a lot, and anyway, fewer software engineers locally would have resulted in a lot less housing pressure.

    Like most immigration, the main benefits end up going to wealthy Americans and the immigrants themselves. Most American-born do not benefit at all — it’s not even neutral, but a net loss.

    And of course pointing this out isn’t anti-immigrant at all, just a plain fact. I’ve met plenty of immigrants I’ve admired, and I’m a civic nationalist anyway. Yet I’m under no compunction to humor any potential hurt feelings when I describe the negative impacts immigration can have on the American people, and the need for strict limitation. A good test of assimilation is if immigrants themselves feel the same way. Some still do, even now.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    I largely agree.

    However, I'm not sure it's a net loss to the US:

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups ... (unfortunately to the point where their kids become iSteve fodder NYT columnists sometimes ), but overall they (we) are not bad people to live around.
    As you said they tend to drive up property values. USUALLY that's considered a good thing though with the Fed pumping money and the building restrictions in CA ... it's gotten more than ridiculous.

    - These are high tax paying high spending HENRY type families so that's good for the local economy and the budget.

    - The negatives are concentrated on people who directly compete for jobs or housing. There there's no argument.
  136. @Achmed E. Newman
    Right, Buzz. President Trump is mostly just a bullshitter. He may very well mean what he wrote, but that doesn't mean a damn thing. He'll tweet something different, maybe in complete contradiction to this, next week. Even if he does that, nothing will be done, because he doesn't follow through. They'll be complaints that "this judge blocked him" or "the Democrats!" when there are always ways. "Just do it" is not something he's ever practiced (at least since I've been following him, no, not on freakin' twitter!

    In the meantime patriotic Americans that don't pay attention to much beyond occasional tweets like this will be satisfied with him for a long while ... till their country's gone.

    I agree compared to all the high impact changes you’ve been making Trump has really dropped the ball.

    Honestly shut the fuck up you and Steve and all the alt right have spent twenty years complaining and haven’t changed a damn thing. Lol Trump doesn’t even know who steve sailer is- instead trump was influenced by Ann Coulter- a writer I’m sure you reject as an agent of Israel.

    Mocking dumb blacks but not in person of course and cowering from Jews when you aren’t jacking off to how smart and clever they are. That’s the epitaph of the boomer alt right. Just a lower IQ lower t version of the feckless revolutionaries Doestovesky was always parodying.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I'm not shutting the fuck up based on the word of some loony on the web. It ain't like Mr. Sailer and I are big enough shots to influence all we want to influence. What do you suggest, voting??

    I've praised Ann Coulter dozens of times on this very blog, and about the same on Peak Stupidity, so don't make stupid assumptions - let's see, just for starters:

    Another fine Ann Coulter article,
    New Column by Ann Coulter proves she is a Libertarian,
    Great Ann Coulter column,
    Ann Coulter nails it again on free markets re: healthcare,
    Does Donald Trump still read Ann Coulter?,
    Must-watch video - Ann Coulter at the Oxford Union,
    Ann Coulter looks on the bright side,
    Ann Coulter's Tweet Tears Trump (a new one),
    Another one out of the park by Ann Coulter,
    Ann Coulter on traffic safety and illegal aliens,
    Ann Coulter - echoes of Peak Stupidity, and
    Ann Coulter column - Law & Order - Stupid Viewers Unit.

    Get off your phone, Millennial, and get a job ... and a haircut.
    , @Mr. Anon
    Do you even read Ann Coulter? You don't seem to know what she's been writing lately. In any event, Trump probably isn't influenced by Sailer, but was influenced by Coulter. And whom do you think influences Ann Coulter? I bet she's a semi-regular reader of this website.

    You really don't know a goddamned thing about anything, do you, you vulgar, bloviating a**hole.

  137. @Hail

    You’ll notice that among those still pimping or at least excusing the CoronaPanic, apart from the rapidly dwindling number of true believers, two types of personalities predominate: 1) The braggarts with an authoritarian streak who have found a convenient cudgel with which to slap everyone else around—these are the people who will always do what “the power” is doing; and 2) The good-boy/quants who see the world through the narrow lens of mathematical models
     
    I can see why the first group you name is still pushing it (along with their vast auxiliaries of 'low-info' CoronaProlefeed-consumers and the corona coup d'etat and political-crisis carcass-pickers like those claiming the virus is racist and lockdown protesters Hate Black People). But why the second group you name?

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/euromomo-week-15-all-age-mortality.png

    It's over, people. The data says the Corona Apocalypse was actually a seasonal flu, and the response literally thousands of times what was necessary, a disastrous escalation spiral of over-responses in March.

    As we have learned now, over and over again, this flu is a flu.”
    — Dr. Knut Wittkowski (holder of multiple relevant PhDs and thirty years of recognized expertise in epidemiology), April 15. (As of April 1, KW has been an open CoronaDenier and anti-CoronaPanic hardliner).

    to all of the brain geniuses like yourself insisting “this isn’t so bad” or “(((they’re))) cooking the books!!!”: how do you explain the difference in expected vs actual all-cause mortality?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    the observable history of the disease affirms the disease is very bad. the serology affirms that we will have fewer very bad epidemic cycles of it than we thought we would (barring vaccine).

    • Replies: @Mehen
    I’m not brainy enough to answer your question but I wonder why the proPanic side only focuses on NYC when the vast majority of the country is experiencing something altogether different? Why is this discrepancy never addressed?
    , @Peterike
    “ the observable history of the disease affirms the disease is very bad.”

    Yeah? Look at those charts. The mortality “history” they compare against is often less than five years worth. In other words, meaningless. But since it’s the Times, it’s presented as stridently and with as much alarmist graph deception as possible.

    It’s the Times. They wouldn’t know how to tell the truth if you paid them.
  138. @Jim Don Bob

    Shame on all rich countries who take doctors and nurses away from poor countries.
     
    C'mon, man. We didn't bring them here at gun point. They were eager to come, because they know they will have a better life and make lots more money than in their own country.

    Lagos, Nigeria or Memphis, Tennessee? Hmmm, lemme think about that for a while . . .

    I am sure that’s the argument that people make who benefit from poaching. But I would argue that no nation is secure and functioning well and properly if it cannot or does not produce its own medical professionals. We foolishly and improperly rely on Africa, India, the Phillipines and similar places to supply doctors and nurses for no good reason. It is because we are too lazy and cheap to make the necessary changes to our medical education and employment practices.

    As long as we Rob the third world of what it needs, its people will try to come here. We ourselves make their miserable lives worse. Can you imagine how awful it must be to live in one of these places and see every year how many medical people leave after their education was paid for by your poor government?

  139. @Steve Sailer
    A problem with sunlight is shade. For example, if a cubical box is delivered to my front porch at 1pm, the top and south side of the 6 sided box will get hit by the sun, if the sun is out (which has been remarkably seldom for the last 6 weeks in L.A., but that's about over). But not the bottom or the north or east sides of the box.

    Ronco brand clockwork package reception turntables for our porches, with a heavily salted Microban surface?

  140. The liberal globalist media is very selective with its praise and blame in handling the virus outbreak. For example, the liberal left in the UK is full of phrase for New Zealand for a low body count, but neglects to mention that Australia has done just as well with a less aggressive shutdown. Ireland gets some praise for doing better than the UK, yet Hungary, which has also done pretty well, gets criticised for being too authoritarian. And poor old Uruguay doesn’t get even get a mention, despite having even better stats than Australia and New Zealand.

    The common denominator is that left-liberal governments get praised for being successful and nationalist or right-wing governments get knocked.

    It’s also interesting how the medical industrial complex isn’t mentioning the strong connection between warm, sunny weather and virus spread. Countries and states which are rapidly warming, such as Texas, Greece, Spain, Tunisia and Lebanon are also experiencing a much more rapid fall off in new cases compared to still cool places like England, Belgium and New York.

    • Replies: @Cowboy Shaw
    The media across the west operates as a borderless propaganda force for liberal governments where ever they happen to be in office. The NZ case is instructive: many of the ludicrous Jacinda hagiographies turn out to be produced by NZers working for big media companies in the UK or US (there was one from the Washington Post recently that was exactly that). The government then uses that as an argument that external authorative sources are heaping praise upon them. And the metro-lib classes fall over themselves weeping with ecstacy that their virtue is recieving international recognition.

    Jacinda herself is a kind of projection fantasy for journalists everywhere: with her communications degree from NZ's lowest ranked university she shows that they too could be leader of their country. And watching Trump do battle each day with America's ranks of ambitious self-regarding Jacindas sitting in the press corp, maybe one day that is America's destiny: to be led by a photogenic idiotic female journalist. That certainly seems to be the goal that the media now has in mind - they are active players in the game.
  141. News says that only green cards will be affected; guest worker programs will continue. Once again Trump lets us down big time. We don’t need many of these workers, they will continue to push down wages and compete with the unemployed and new graduates. But the chamber of commerce, libertarian donors and cheap labor users will be happy.

    I am so disgusted.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    You would have gotten more, or anything at all, with any other president? Tha fuq?
  142. @Dave Pinsen

    Another unexpected negative here that occurs to me: Ironically this gets some core-Trump-2016 people in favor of continuing the National Emergency and the insane Shutdowns, which we so badly need to lift.
     
    You don't need the shutdowns to justify the immigration moratorium: the >20% unemployment rate will justify it.

    When that unemployment rate comes down, and wages start to rise, you justify the immigration moratorium based on that ("Working Americans are finally getting raises after the 'invisible enemy' caused the worst unemployment since the Great Depression - now's not the time to take our foot off the gas.").

    You don’t need the shutdowns to justify the immigration moratorium: the >20% unemployment rate will justify it.

    No, it will be *thought to* justify it because of some of the stupid pro-immigration propaganda projects (e.g., “They do the jobs Americans won’t do.”). The truth, however, is that immigration is equally bad at all unemployment rates.

  143. @Buzz Mohawk
    Yes, I know. 164 Miles. I took a piss an hour ago. That's about how much 164 miles is worth.

    It’s 164 miles than you would have gotten otherwise, and walls in high traffic areas can have a real impact. They did in San Diego.

  144. @anon
    It's a calculated political move to keep his base from deserting him as he tries strangling states into opening up (his federal government is stealing PPE shipments to the states, slowly withdrawing funding for testing, he's fomenting rebellion on Twitter, and his buddy Stephen Moore is organizing astroturf protests that aren't even supported by the majority of republicans). His approval rating is falling. Remember, this is the guy who has repeatedly stated he wants the greatest number of legal immigrants in history admitted into this country. Don't believe this conman.

    It’s a calculated political move to keep his base from deserting him as he tries strangling states into opening up (his federal government is stealing PPE shipments to the states, slowly withdrawing funding for testing, he’s fomenting rebellion on Twitter, and his buddy Stephen Moore is organizing astroturf protests that aren’t even supported by the majority of republicans). His approval rating is falling. Remember, this is the guy who has repeatedly stated he wants the greatest number of legal immigrants in history admitted into this country. Don’t believe this conman.

    Last year, legal immigration was 590,000, down from 1.1 million the year before. If actions speak louder than words (as you claim), why can’t you hear that?

    • Thanks: epebble
    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    "Last year, legal immigration was 590,000, down from 1.1 million the year before. If actions speak louder than words (as you claim), why can’t you hear that?" Please stop using facts.
  145. I am waiting for the details of this E.O. for obvious reasons. If it is just suspending GC processing temporarily, it doesn’t make much sense. Because most of the annual GC’s are for family members & in case of the the GC’s given based on employment, those people are already working in US on a visa. So how will it change job situation?

    I and many like me are working on H1B for more than a decade because of GC backlog. GC processing suspension doesn’t make any difference to our day to day life.

    Now, if instead, H1/H2 renewals are blocked, it will impact roughly 1 million people & their employers.

    Interesting times ahead.

    ============
    Added later: CNN link

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/politics/donald-trump-immigration-coronavirus/

    President Donald Trump said Tuesday his forthcoming executive order barring new immigration will apply only to people seeking green cards, will last 60 days and won’t affect workers entering the country on a temporary basis.

  146. @anon
    You are correct; this will be the year with fewest immigrants/visitors. But thanks be to the virus, not any government action. It is amazing what nature can do in an instant what the polity could not do in a generation. What will also help in the future is to greatly reduce international travel. If the airlines are not bailed out, this will occur naturally. But the real driver will be the loss of jobs - magnet of immigration. Since ours is a service economy, if 30% of service sector gets deleted (conservatively), immigration will flameout by itself.

    You are correct; this will be the year with fewest immigrants/visitors. But thanks be to the virus, not any government action.

    But the same thing (fewest immigrants in three decades) happened last year, without the crown virus.

  147. @Daniel H
    What a simple, reasoned explanation, statement of intent. No hemming, hawing, misdirection, hesitation, obfuscation.

    A great start. More of this, and more straight talk. What a breath of fresh air.

    Gives a lie to the bs that we just can't talk about certain things.

    He finally realized that if he wanted to win re-election, he had to actually DO a little something, instead of just insulting the media.

  148. (Points at Steve; so distraught he can’t even splutter!)

  149. @Anonymous
    A lot of people have blamed Trump for lack of planning. And tbh, he has not been impressive recently in that regard.

    If that's the case, to get where he has gotten you need to have a preternatural ability to pull miracles out of your ass at the 11th hour. I think this qualifies.

    Could well be. Or it could be that he’s a chancer whose luck will one day run out. Fairly soon.

  150. @Buzz Mohawk
    Put your package inside one of these.

    http://www.massagesupplies.com/images/products/8057/UVC-C_8057.jpg

    Then go wash your hands because you touched that package. Then wash your hands again because you touched the faucet handle. Then wash the handle. Then wash your hands again.

    Better yet, just hire a contractor to build a giant version of an ultraviolet sterilizer box around your entire house.

    “ultraviolet sterilizer box around your entire house”

    Mr. Mohawk, coming into your home, and mine, soon. While it’s “visiting” and performing its disinfection duties; it may as well have a look 👀 around, for you and yours protection.

    https://www.medgadget.com/2020/04/worlds-first-indoor-disinfection-drone-ready-to-fight-covid-19.html

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    On the other hand, if all you want to sterilize is your is your " baby bottles / underwear / toothbrushes / beauty tools / jewelry" you get one of these from PRC:

    https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H2fd38f4b7f5c4f0a8439f467c6b07671C.jpg

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000899095840.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1bcc73b5nAAThZ&algo_pvid=00166bac-3689-4cb9-99c0-e2d24dd2a17d&algo_expid=00166bac-3689-4cb9-99c0-e2d24dd2a17d-27&btsid=0ab6f82215875154480591118e2283&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
  151. Madeleine Albright on Msnbc had just two words :
    – that’s not who we are
    – Lady of Liberty is crying
    She doesn’t fear being a caricature

    Problem of the moratum : it doesn’t ban any temporary worker. So it’s almost useless ….

  152. @danand

    “ultraviolet sterilizer box around your entire house”
     
    Mr. Mohawk, coming into your home, and mine, soon. While it’s “visiting” and performing its disinfection duties; it may as well have a look 👀 around, for you and yours protection.

    https://youtu.be/1PEMrz9fZm4

    https://www.medgadget.com/2020/04/worlds-first-indoor-disinfection-drone-ready-to-fight-covid-19.html
  153. @Reg Cæsar

    On Our Uncle’s birthday, no less.
     
    You don't mean...?



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/01/11/Adolf_Hitler_und_Hermann_Goring_trans%2B%2B_01geUMvhhqXYj_tJM1bT4JpN1butCYh4PSmYUxIH9Q.jpg

    I can easily believe that Hitler was Ben Kenobi’s uncle. There’s a strong family resemblance:

  154. There are 9 millions temporary visa and 1 million green cards, so executive order is capped at just 10%.

    But among those greencards you have family reunion, renewal and lottery who all are heavily regulated by law, so the executive order will be weak in court. Only 13% come for employment reasons by greencard.

    So 9 millions untouched who would have been easy
    870k very challengeable in court ….
    130k safely banned

    So Trump order address 1,3% of the migration question.

  155. @anon
    The FANGs do use some H1Bs, but the _cost savings_ from that are not that large, per person, and not amaterial piece of their success, imo

    1. How do you know what the FANG H1b utilization is, or what their cost structure is?
    2. Assuming you are correct, why do the FANG's defend H1b and demand more of them?
    3. When was the last time you personally knew someone who got hired by Google or MSFT? Did they look much like James Damore? Or not so much?

    Some general data:

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/17/h-1b-foreign-citizens-make-up-nearly-three-quarters-of-silicon-valley-tech-workforce-report-says/

    Some specific company data — link is at very bottom:
    A couple of comments here:
    1) These are new applications PER YEAR.
    H-1B visas last 7 years.
    So if you are a company that requests say,
    4000 visas for 2017, you probably have
    25,000 H-1Bs on your payroll.

    2) As another gentlemen commenter who is an
    H-1Ber on this thread has mentioned, if you
    have applied for a Green Card, your H-1B
    does not expire until you get a decision on your
    Green Card. That could take years.
    These H-1Bs aren’t counted against any quota
    or limit. They just exist.
    Companies employ them by the hundreds of
    thousands.

    3) Most H-1Bs are in software or engineering.
    Not human resources.
    Not sales.
    Not finance.
    So a company with 80,000 employees can point
    to a yearly H-1B application of a few thousand
    and say ‘What’s the fuss all about? It’s a tiny
    amount of our employees.’
    When in reality a large tech company most
    likely has a large majority of its 10,000 to
    20,000 strong engineering department filled
    with H-1Bs and former H-1Bs.

    And the US Government says: ‘our workforce is
    150 million strong, why are you complaining
    about 85,000 measly people a year?’

    And so the game is played.

    Oh, and OPT and H-1B are not the same.
    OPT is 3 years automatic.

    https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

  156. Well, Princess Jared and Ivanka prevailed. After all, they can’t afford to annoy their pals in Silicon Valley. The Executive Order is a joke. Doesn’t affect H-1Bs or any other temporary workers. This is worse than useless.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    This is worse than useless.
     
    Trump only has to fool the MAGA knuckle-draggers. And that's pretty easy.
  157. @anon
    The FANGs do use some H1Bs, but the _cost savings_ from that are not that large, per person, and not amaterial piece of their success, imo

    1. How do you know what the FANG H1b utilization is, or what their cost structure is?
    2. Assuming you are correct, why do the FANG's defend H1b and demand more of them?
    3. When was the last time you personally knew someone who got hired by Google or MSFT? Did they look much like James Damore? Or not so much?

    1. How do you know what the FANG H1b utilization is, or what their cost structure is?

    2. Assuming you are correct, why do the FANG’s defend H1b and demand more of them?

    I don’t know in any rigorous way. Just guessing from being in the area (physically and vocationally), and based on the h1b people i’ve worked with over the years at various companies.

    To put it in terms that would scandalized normies but should be fine here, these companies tend to hire high IQ people. And they want to fish in the largest pool possible. They’re willing to pay to brain drain other countries, and they don’t want legal obstacles to that. That’s why they are for more H1Bs.

    Does this lower my job prospects and wages… probably.

    3. When was the last time you personally knew someone who got hired by Google or MSFT? Did they look much like James Damore? Or not so much?

    Past several years i know some people who went to FB, some to Amazon and some from Amazon, google and MSFT.
    4 are American born whites. 2 are American born Chinese. 1 Greece born Greek (but already a citizen) 🙂

    Idk what the actual percentages are, but these companies hire a lot of white people and a lot of East Asians (mostly Chinese). But many of the white people aren’t necessarily old stock Americans. There are lots of immigrants and children of immigrants, especially Eastern Block, but really from everywhere (Israelis, South Africans, Argentinians )

    Smartest American kids don’t get into tech anymore i think, at least not as coders, or not for long. They go into finance and business. (<- feeling/ impression from reading stuff over the years; haven't looked it up recently)

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Really? And are these tech companies scouring Montana Tech, the University of Arkansas, Southern Illinois University, or hundreds of other state universities for tech talent? My direct experience is that most Silicon Valley tech companies may be immigrant rich, but extremely provincial. Most of the rest of the country is not recruited for talent, and the 'H-1B is needed because of talent shortage' is pure BS.

    This country groans under the weight of worthless Computer Science masters degree programs -- most of these programs are at accredited schools -- that exist to give Indians and Chinese a shot at citizenship while making money off of them. They lack the rigour of a bachelors degree from the same universities, gotten by the American students.

    And then the companies filter for masters degrees for employment. I myself have several Computer Science Phds on my team. We all do the same type work.

  158. @Peter Akuleyev
    That 164 miles counts repairs to existing parts of the structure, it is a joke.

    Trump has not been serious about building a wall. Although, since a wall is a stupid way to combat immigration, if you view the wall as just another Trump con, it is a pretty good grift, and certainly a successful way to get the message about immigration out to the intellectually challenged.

    Trump exempt H1b holders. Steve S doesn’t want to bring up that H1b’s are worst than illegal immigrants since they tend to vote more.

  159. @vhrm

    1. How do you know what the FANG H1b utilization is, or what their cost structure is?

    2. Assuming you are correct, why do the FANG’s defend H1b and demand more of them?
     
    I don't know in any rigorous way. Just guessing from being in the area (physically and vocationally), and based on the h1b people i've worked with over the years at various companies.

    To put it in terms that would scandalized normies but should be fine here, these companies tend to hire high IQ people. And they want to fish in the largest pool possible. They're willing to pay to brain drain other countries, and they don't want legal obstacles to that. That's why they are for more H1Bs.

    Does this lower my job prospects and wages... probably.

    3. When was the last time you personally knew someone who got hired by Google or MSFT? Did they look much like James Damore? Or not so much?
     
    Past several years i know some people who went to FB, some to Amazon and some from Amazon, google and MSFT.
    4 are American born whites. 2 are American born Chinese. 1 Greece born Greek (but already a citizen) :-)

    Idk what the actual percentages are, but these companies hire a lot of white people and a lot of East Asians (mostly Chinese). But many of the white people aren't necessarily old stock Americans. There are lots of immigrants and children of immigrants, especially Eastern Block, but really from everywhere (Israelis, South Africans, Argentinians )

    Smartest American kids don't get into tech anymore i think, at least not as coders, or not for long. They go into finance and business. (<- feeling/ impression from reading stuff over the years; haven't looked it up recently)

    Really? And are these tech companies scouring Montana Tech, the University of Arkansas, Southern Illinois University, or hundreds of other state universities for tech talent? My direct experience is that most Silicon Valley tech companies may be immigrant rich, but extremely provincial. Most of the rest of the country is not recruited for talent, and the ‘H-1B is needed because of talent shortage’ is pure BS.

    This country groans under the weight of worthless Computer Science masters degree programs — most of these programs are at accredited schools — that exist to give Indians and Chinese a shot at citizenship while making money off of them. They lack the rigour of a bachelors degree from the same universities, gotten by the American students.

    And then the companies filter for masters degrees for employment. I myself have several Computer Science Phds on my team. We all do the same type work.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    In my experience hiring process are all over the place out here. The Masters required in my experience is more for government or companies who contract for the government though probably others do it too.

    In the past 5-10 years the FANGs esp (but many others too) have leaned heavily on coding tests as a major part of their developer hiring and it's been fairly democratizing.

    A young friend just got a new-grad offer from Amazon on Seattle to work on AWS. He's finishing CS at San Francisco State after transferring in from a community college. As you know SFSU is no better than "University of Arkansas" brand wise. And i don't know about Southern Illinois University, but I've worked with several people from UIUC.

    Even for mid career people i know basically they have to grind leetcode for a few weeks to get up to speed on dumb problem solving to change jobs even if they're currently actively coding. Then it's a matter of luck.

    Ironic personal anecdote:
    Only time i applied to FB (because the Greek guy, a former boss, convinced me to apply when he started there) i didn't make it through the tech phone screen. I actually solved the coding problems fine if not particularly quickly (because i didn't practice), but the (uppity ) Indian guy giving the interview didn't understand that the algorithm i used was equivalent to what he says i should have done. So my experience, pedigree, recommendation from a manger who worked there AND being correct got me nowhere in that case.
  160. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    FANGS only account for a small number of the total employed software engineers in Silicon Valley; the vast majority of the rest are not contract houses. Huge companies like Cisco have engineering departments that are almost all Indian. The valley is also full of software companies with revenues between 1 to 10 billion a year that are not common household names. These companies are full of H-1Bs or former H-1Bs: this is precisely why the technical workforce in Silicon Valley became 75 percent foreign born. So the issue of supply is certainly not minor.

    Without the H-1B visa some of this software development would have indeed been offshored, so I don't claim every H-1B is an American job loss. But there have been quite a lot, and anyway, fewer software engineers locally would have resulted in a lot less housing pressure.

    Like most immigration, the main benefits end up going to wealthy Americans and the immigrants themselves. Most American-born do not benefit at all -- it's not even neutral, but a net loss.

    And of course pointing this out isn't anti-immigrant at all, just a plain fact. I've met plenty of immigrants I've admired, and I'm a civic nationalist anyway. Yet I'm under no compunction to humor any potential hurt feelings when I describe the negative impacts immigration can have on the American people, and the need for strict limitation. A good test of assimilation is if immigrants themselves feel the same way. Some still do, even now.

    I largely agree.

    However, I’m not sure it’s a net loss to the US:

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups … (unfortunately to the point where their kids become iSteve fodder NYT columnists sometimes ), but overall they (we) are not bad people to live around.
    As you said they tend to drive up property values. USUALLY that’s considered a good thing though with the Fed pumping money and the building restrictions in CA … it’s gotten more than ridiculous.

    – These are high tax paying high spending HENRY type families so that’s good for the local economy and the budget.

    – The negatives are concentrated on people who directly compete for jobs or housing. There there’s no argument.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    1) Driving up property values has been an absolute disaster for working class and middle class Americans in the Bay Area who already didn't own property.

    2) I think assimilation is fairly high in East Asian Christians, and those from the Philippines. That's about it. I'm even civic nationalist enough to feel like home in some of those neighborhoods.

    3) Outside of muslims, Indians are literally the least assimilated group. Note: knowledge of English doesn't make you assimilated at all. I actually think it harms Indian assimilation as they believe English proficiency is all that is necessary for assimilation, and that was learned in India. I'm continually astonished by the extreme lack of knowledge or curiosity about American culture and customs. I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There's no there there.

    And yes, I actually don't have an issue with Indians. The ones in Silicon Valley should be filling pleasant neighborhoods in Bangalore and Chennai. I've lived in lots of neighborhoods in America that were virtually immigrant free and filled with very nice people also, so telling me Silicon Valley immigrants aren't bad people to be around doesn't really impress me much if my own countrymen are getting displaced. That's as dumb as me liking my co-workers and then supporting the H-1B program. Guess what -- I do like my foreign co-workers. And I like my American ones too. And I would have liked my potential American co-workers who were never hired because an H-1B was hired in their place.

    And of course, Americans should be oh so happy that foreigners pay taxes from jobs the Americans can easily fill. In what universe does that make sense?

    You sound like Jeb Bush or Paul Ryan. Seriously.
    , @William Badwhite

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups
     
    When polled the Pajeets consistently show a high willingness to both restrict speech and to restrict guns. IOW they're not in favor of the first two amendments. The NYT crowed about how they helped tilt Virginia to the Dems, in large part supporting Governor Blackface's gun grabbing plans.
    , @anon
    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups …

    Assimilation to what?

    Assimilation to the pozzed world of globalhomo? Agree.
    Assimilation to the historic America? No. Not even a little bit.

    The Virginia elections are just one example: Northern Virginia is seriously colonized by those "assimilating" people, and they vote D very reliably. You may not have a problem with further importation of a real, live caste system to the US but other people do, and for good reasons. Like the inherent corruption of a one-party state for a start

  161. @Sam Haysom
    I agree compared to all the high impact changes you’ve been making Trump has really dropped the ball.

    Honestly shut the fuck up you and Steve and all the alt right have spent twenty years complaining and haven’t changed a damn thing. Lol Trump doesn’t even know who steve sailer is- instead trump was influenced by Ann Coulter- a writer I’m sure you reject as an agent of Israel.

    Mocking dumb blacks but not in person of course and cowering from Jews when you aren’t jacking off to how smart and clever they are. That’s the epitaph of the boomer alt right. Just a lower IQ lower t version of the feckless revolutionaries Doestovesky was always parodying.

    I’m not shutting the fuck up based on the word of some loony on the web. It ain’t like Mr. Sailer and I are big enough shots to influence all we want to influence. What do you suggest, voting??

    I’ve praised Ann Coulter dozens of times on this very blog, and about the same on Peak Stupidity, so don’t make stupid assumptions – let’s see, just for starters:

    Another fine Ann Coulter article,
    New Column by Ann Coulter proves she is a Libertarian,
    Great Ann Coulter column,
    Ann Coulter nails it again on free markets re: healthcare,
    Does Donald Trump still read Ann Coulter?,
    Must-watch video – Ann Coulter at the Oxford Union,
    Ann Coulter looks on the bright side,
    Ann Coulter’s Tweet Tears Trump (a new one),
    Another one out of the park by Ann Coulter,
    Ann Coulter on traffic safety and illegal aliens,
    Ann Coulter – echoes of Peak Stupidity, and
    Ann Coulter column – Law & Order – Stupid Viewers Unit.

    Get off your phone, Millennial, and get a job … and a haircut.

  162. @JohnnyWalker123
    One issue that will have to be discussed is the fate of migrants who legally live in the United States, but haven't yet adjusted to permanent residence.

    A second issue is migrants who are in the immigration backlog. Such as H-1bs who've applied for permanent residence and have been approved, but haven't been issued with official documents due to visa caps.

    What happens to these two groups of people?

    They can just go home?

  163. @Anonymous
    Good old Donald !!!!!!

    Sticking it to The Economist editorial board since 2016.

    Ha ha ha.

    And the Economist will be getting their revenge on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. The penalties for us collaborators will be severe.

  164. @Big Dick Bandit
    to all of the brain geniuses like yourself insisting “this isn’t so bad” or “(((they’re))) cooking the books!!!”: how do you explain the difference in expected vs actual all-cause mortality?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    the observable history of the disease affirms the disease is very bad. the serology affirms that we will have fewer very bad epidemic cycles of it than we thought we would (barring vaccine).

    I’m not brainy enough to answer your question but I wonder why the proPanic side only focuses on NYC when the vast majority of the country is experiencing something altogether different? Why is this discrepancy never addressed?

  165. @Big Dick Bandit
    to all of the brain geniuses like yourself insisting “this isn’t so bad” or “(((they’re))) cooking the books!!!”: how do you explain the difference in expected vs actual all-cause mortality?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    the observable history of the disease affirms the disease is very bad. the serology affirms that we will have fewer very bad epidemic cycles of it than we thought we would (barring vaccine).

    “ the observable history of the disease affirms the disease is very bad.”

    Yeah? Look at those charts. The mortality “history” they compare against is often less than five years worth. In other words, meaningless. But since it’s the Times, it’s presented as stridently and with as much alarmist graph deception as possible.

    It’s the Times. They wouldn’t know how to tell the truth if you paid them.

  166. @ben tillman

    It’s a calculated political move to keep his base from deserting him as he tries strangling states into opening up (his federal government is stealing PPE shipments to the states, slowly withdrawing funding for testing, he’s fomenting rebellion on Twitter, and his buddy Stephen Moore is organizing astroturf protests that aren’t even supported by the majority of republicans). His approval rating is falling. Remember, this is the guy who has repeatedly stated he wants the greatest number of legal immigrants in history admitted into this country. Don’t believe this conman.
     
    Last year, legal immigration was 590,000, down from 1.1 million the year before. If actions speak louder than words (as you claim), why can't you hear that?

    “Last year, legal immigration was 590,000, down from 1.1 million the year before. If actions speak louder than words (as you claim), why can’t you hear that?” Please stop using facts.

  167. @notsaying
    News says that only green cards will be affected; guest worker programs will continue. Once again Trump lets us down big time. We don't need many of these workers, they will continue to push down wages and compete with the unemployed and new graduates. But the chamber of commerce, libertarian donors and cheap labor users will be happy.

    I am so disgusted.

    You would have gotten more, or anything at all, with any other president? Tha fuq?

  168. @anon
    How many real preppers would you expect to answer your questions?

    >>How many real preppers would you expect to answer your questions?<<

    Yes, finding research subjects on security matters is always a problem to be solved. However there are many publications, websites, etc. where preppers seem quite happy to provide advice and brag about their foresight. Some sell products also.

    A credible (to them) social scientist surveyor can promise anonymity to responders or simply pose the question on one of many of the existing online website comment sections or blogs. Most preppers already post under pseudonyms.

    I suspect when the dust settles there will be among them some honest people who will be happy discuss what they did or didn't do. Some of course were prepared for this in some fashion. As for the big commercial prepper retreats, that will be harder but since they are selling a service/product, salesmen exist and often have loose lips for potential customers.

    Certainly this experience will add to the information about the items and products/medicines preppers might need or want in the future.

    For the paranoid crazies, of course they will hide in silence. They are best avoided in any case and in my experience are more talk than action.

  169. @vhrm
    I largely agree.

    However, I'm not sure it's a net loss to the US:

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups ... (unfortunately to the point where their kids become iSteve fodder NYT columnists sometimes ), but overall they (we) are not bad people to live around.
    As you said they tend to drive up property values. USUALLY that's considered a good thing though with the Fed pumping money and the building restrictions in CA ... it's gotten more than ridiculous.

    - These are high tax paying high spending HENRY type families so that's good for the local economy and the budget.

    - The negatives are concentrated on people who directly compete for jobs or housing. There there's no argument.

    1) Driving up property values has been an absolute disaster for working class and middle class Americans in the Bay Area who already didn’t own property.

    2) I think assimilation is fairly high in East Asian Christians, and those from the Philippines. That’s about it. I’m even civic nationalist enough to feel like home in some of those neighborhoods.

    3) Outside of muslims, Indians are literally the least assimilated group. Note: knowledge of English doesn’t make you assimilated at all. I actually think it harms Indian assimilation as they believe English proficiency is all that is necessary for assimilation, and that was learned in India. I’m continually astonished by the extreme lack of knowledge or curiosity about American culture and customs. I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There’s no there there.

    And yes, I actually don’t have an issue with Indians. The ones in Silicon Valley should be filling pleasant neighborhoods in Bangalore and Chennai. I’ve lived in lots of neighborhoods in America that were virtually immigrant free and filled with very nice people also, so telling me Silicon Valley immigrants aren’t bad people to be around doesn’t really impress me much if my own countrymen are getting displaced. That’s as dumb as me liking my co-workers and then supporting the H-1B program. Guess what — I do like my foreign co-workers. And I like my American ones too. And I would have liked my potential American co-workers who were never hired because an H-1B was hired in their place.

    And of course, Americans should be oh so happy that foreigners pay taxes from jobs the Americans can easily fill. In what universe does that make sense?

    You sound like Jeb Bush or Paul Ryan. Seriously.

    • Agree: Big Dick Bandit
    • Replies: @notsaying
    What is a "civic nationalist"?
    , @vhrm
    1) no argument on the property prices and cost of living. But that's only weakly due to international migration. If the same jobs were held by native born Americans it would be the same thing. (if the jobs were overseas instead, then yes it would be better).

    3)


    I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There’s no there there.
     
    I don't think this is an immigrant thing. It's what "Office Space", "Bowling Alone" etc are about.

    On immigration generally... what can i say, I'm pretty convinced that we shouldn't import low IQ "underclass" types by the millions when we're getting to a point that the left half of the curve are just not going to be employable and they'll exacerbate our wealth and income inequality issues.

    On the smart people side which we've been discussing I'm less convinced of the damage to the nation ongoing, especially if the flows are limited...

    BTW, H1B is a BS program that should be tossed. they should absolutely not be tied to an employer. (and yes i agree that the "we absolutely couldn't find an American Sr. Java engineer is a lie. we like this foreign one better... is more true). I'd just make them immigrant visas to begin with.

    , @Big Dick Bandit
    i'm an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for "Code American" to be a thing, mostly because it seems like such an obvious populist move.

    there is no reason we shouldn't be agitating for hiring American Coders aside from "we'd have to pay a little more"--what's interesting to me is that there are tons of 2nd Gen Indians+Taiwanese (and their parents) who would be fine suspending H1B because their kids (who are very much American and assimilated well) are also competing for those jobs with guys from the motherland.

    for what it's worth, those 2nd Gen kids are pretty fantastic on the whole. they're good students to grow up with, and contrary to stereotype they're largely extraverted and well-rounded--not just number crunching drones. had a lot of Chatterjee+Hsu's as friends growing up. good people.

  170. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    1) Driving up property values has been an absolute disaster for working class and middle class Americans in the Bay Area who already didn't own property.

    2) I think assimilation is fairly high in East Asian Christians, and those from the Philippines. That's about it. I'm even civic nationalist enough to feel like home in some of those neighborhoods.

    3) Outside of muslims, Indians are literally the least assimilated group. Note: knowledge of English doesn't make you assimilated at all. I actually think it harms Indian assimilation as they believe English proficiency is all that is necessary for assimilation, and that was learned in India. I'm continually astonished by the extreme lack of knowledge or curiosity about American culture and customs. I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There's no there there.

    And yes, I actually don't have an issue with Indians. The ones in Silicon Valley should be filling pleasant neighborhoods in Bangalore and Chennai. I've lived in lots of neighborhoods in America that were virtually immigrant free and filled with very nice people also, so telling me Silicon Valley immigrants aren't bad people to be around doesn't really impress me much if my own countrymen are getting displaced. That's as dumb as me liking my co-workers and then supporting the H-1B program. Guess what -- I do like my foreign co-workers. And I like my American ones too. And I would have liked my potential American co-workers who were never hired because an H-1B was hired in their place.

    And of course, Americans should be oh so happy that foreigners pay taxes from jobs the Americans can easily fill. In what universe does that make sense?

    You sound like Jeb Bush or Paul Ryan. Seriously.

    What is a “civic nationalist”?

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    I of course don't think being American requires European ancestry. That is what civic nationalist means in American terms.

    My ancestors were here many generations before the United States was even a concept, so I'm pretty damn secure in my sole ethnicity: American. And my ancestors were not nice people, thank God. Because nice people don't conquer most of the best land on a continent, even from Stone Age peoples. (As an aside, nice people also don't trade in stolen property. But that doesn't seem to stop recent progressive immigrants from moving here and lecturing about American sins of the past. I can't leave easily -- I was born here. If American history bugs you as an immigrant, get the hell out -- it's honestly the only moral thing to do.)

    If these primitive peoples were saints I might feel bad. They were not remotely saints, just primitive. So even in a contest with English colonists -- which modern history explains were much inferior to the Chinese and Indians of the 16th and 17th centuries -- the Native Americans lost. So I don't feel bad they were conquered. Who loses to losers?

    After gaining a foothold on a vast beautiful continent called North America, my ancestral cultural group eventually imported slaves to work agricultural lands, a common practice thousands of years old throughout the world. My ancestors at first lacked the ability to penetrate beyond the coastline of West Africa, so it was mainly the Portuguese and Spanish that contracted with the local West African businessmen and Arab entrepreneurs to procure the labor supply. Later on my ancestral cultural group -- acquiring the name American -- did get in on the action. It was an embarrassing small piece of the total slave trade, however, and as jingoistic Americans we tend to play it up as central to world history. It was not. Indeed, it was a stunningly minor footnote in the history of human slavery. But wrongs were of course still done.

    As my people continued to expand west across a vast beautiful continent, besides the pesky Native Americans, they did encounter Mexico, a country so inept vast Texas and beautiful California were essentially unsettled...and into a great new country they were quickly absorbed.

    There was of course some minor unpleasantness regarding disagreements about involuntary servitude.

    While all this was happening, the young country was getting overrun with immigrants whose later descendants -- some iSteve commenters -- idiotically think are central to the American story. Yet my ancestors didn't change their language, their religion, their culture, their ways. Because they didn't need to. This was their land. Most -- all of the good -- immigrants did change their ways. As they damn well should have. And the process was not pleasant. And the civic nationalists didn't give a damn that it was unpleasant. And the immigrants became Americans. And Jamestown became theirs. Yorktown became theirs. The Bill of Rights became theirs. Gettysburg became theirs. Whether their ancestors were here at that time or not is immaterial.

    And whether their ancestors were white or not is immaterial.

    Because I don't think patriotism is dying because of genetics. A country can be diverse and not celebrate diversity. It's not predestined.

    Civic nationalism is dying because civic nationalists are themselves weak. I do happen to think a strong assimilation cultural war would indeed lower immigration in general, and from many non-white countries very strongly. And that bothers me not one bit. Many groups have very strong cultural patterns, and if they are moving to America in large numbers it's essentially because minimal changes are being demanded of them from us. That needs to change. (It obviously will never change if we go around whining apologetically about our history all the time.)

    But if you're with the program, you're one of us, regardless of where you are from or what you look like.
  171. @Jim Don Bob

    Silicon Valley has a swarm of lobbyists in DC, with their fangs in both parties.
     
    True, but he could tighten the administration of H1B visas so that they are much more difficult to get by doing something as simple as requiring more documentation that the company wanting this moron just can't find anybody in the whole USA who can do the job.

    Right now a tomato grower in Florida will advertise for tomato pickers in North Dakota, and when he doesn't get any responses says, "See! Bring on the Mexicans!" It is completely and utterly corrupt, and both parties are to blame.

    Right now a tomato grower in Florida will advertise for tomato pickers in North Dakota, and when he doesn’t get any responses

    With the price of oil at a historic low, he may very well get a few responses.

    The price I saw at one of our local pumps today would translate to 18¢/gal in 1968.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What does the black line represent versus the red line?
  172. anon[408] • Disclaimer says:

    Lol. You suckers fell for it. Trump is walking it all back now. Claiming he never promised to reduce the number of legal immigrants (he did). His advisors are admitting this is nothing but red meat to keep the rubes voting for him.

    Trump now denying he ever wanted to reduce *legal* immigration.
    — Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian) April 21, 2020

    Trump says 60-day order, could be renewed, but does not apply to *any* guestworkers. Unbelievable. https://t.co/8anu8MpCwR
    — Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian) April 21, 2020

    “By Tuesday afternoon — amid the business backlash — officials acknowledged that devising an order that applied to some guest workers but not others would be overly complicated, and they abandoned it.” https://t.co/9Ov4nrjWbP

    — Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian) April 22, 2020

    “During today’s White House presser, the Corps of Engineers general said 164 miles of the border war have been built”

    Great. Just another 75 years before we get it all. I knew Trump could do it. #KAG

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Why anyone believes Trump is really any sort of populist is beyond me. He is the quintessential American grifter.
  173. @MG
    Well, Princess Jared and Ivanka prevailed. After all, they can't afford to annoy their pals in Silicon Valley. The Executive Order is a joke. Doesn't affect H-1Bs or any other temporary workers. This is worse than useless.

    This is worse than useless.

    Trump only has to fool the MAGA knuckle-draggers. And that’s pretty easy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In hindsight this appears to just be Clinton's "boob bait for the Bubbas".

    I guess Trump just has to be a better choice than Biden for those who can be bothered to vote. :/
  174. @Dissident
    https://i.imgur.com/LwGmdOF.gif
    http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/34/768x1092/gallery-1439844171-esq0804covtx-trump-donald.jpg

    Too soon, to be sure, for us to celebrate. But how long before the tears start flowing from Our Lady of Liberty? And will The Honorable Mr. Schumer join her again? I'm starting to choke-up just at the thought...

    Trump and the Chinacons are still preferable to Bush and the neocons, but I find it a little ironic how Trump has got strongly behind the FANG led equities boom.

    Apparently one of the key Chinacons that helped bring Trump into power was John Paulson, who happened to be one of the key figures that bought down the banksters who were behind the sub-prime fiasco. Surely he should be able to see the looming dangers in tying ones flag to the current equity bubble around over-inflated growth stocks, share buy-backs, and massive corporate debt.

  175. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    1) Driving up property values has been an absolute disaster for working class and middle class Americans in the Bay Area who already didn't own property.

    2) I think assimilation is fairly high in East Asian Christians, and those from the Philippines. That's about it. I'm even civic nationalist enough to feel like home in some of those neighborhoods.

    3) Outside of muslims, Indians are literally the least assimilated group. Note: knowledge of English doesn't make you assimilated at all. I actually think it harms Indian assimilation as they believe English proficiency is all that is necessary for assimilation, and that was learned in India. I'm continually astonished by the extreme lack of knowledge or curiosity about American culture and customs. I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There's no there there.

    And yes, I actually don't have an issue with Indians. The ones in Silicon Valley should be filling pleasant neighborhoods in Bangalore and Chennai. I've lived in lots of neighborhoods in America that were virtually immigrant free and filled with very nice people also, so telling me Silicon Valley immigrants aren't bad people to be around doesn't really impress me much if my own countrymen are getting displaced. That's as dumb as me liking my co-workers and then supporting the H-1B program. Guess what -- I do like my foreign co-workers. And I like my American ones too. And I would have liked my potential American co-workers who were never hired because an H-1B was hired in their place.

    And of course, Americans should be oh so happy that foreigners pay taxes from jobs the Americans can easily fill. In what universe does that make sense?

    You sound like Jeb Bush or Paul Ryan. Seriously.

    1) no argument on the property prices and cost of living. But that’s only weakly due to international migration. If the same jobs were held by native born Americans it would be the same thing. (if the jobs were overseas instead, then yes it would be better).

    3)

    I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There’s no there there.

    I don’t think this is an immigrant thing. It’s what “Office Space”, “Bowling Alone” etc are about.

    On immigration generally… what can i say, I’m pretty convinced that we shouldn’t import low IQ “underclass” types by the millions when we’re getting to a point that the left half of the curve are just not going to be employable and they’ll exacerbate our wealth and income inequality issues.

    On the smart people side which we’ve been discussing I’m less convinced of the damage to the nation ongoing, especially if the flows are limited…

    BTW, H1B is a BS program that should be tossed. they should absolutely not be tied to an employer. (and yes i agree that the “we absolutely couldn’t find an American Sr. Java engineer is a lie. we like this foreign one better… is more true). I’d just make them immigrant visas to begin with.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    H-1Bs can easily switch employers. They do all the time. They just need to continue working at some sort of tech job to remain in the country, without more than 2 month gaps in between jobs.

    So H-1Bs are absolutely not getting a raw deal. Americans are.

    But amazingly -- because of this non-existent issue -- you think H-1Bs should just straight up be given immigrant visas. Because of IQ? Seriously? Are they improving our gene pool too? How gracious of them.

    I obviously have been the victim of an elaborate troll.
    , @dfordoom

    On the smart people side which we’ve been discussing I’m less convinced of the damage to the nation ongoing, especially if the flows are limited…
     
    The importation of those smart immigrants does immense harm to the countries those immigrants are coming from. Those countries are being stripped of their most useful citizens. It is a deeply immoral evil policy.
  176. @JohnnyWalker123
    You watch the Corbett Report?

    You watch the Corbett Report?

    I think I saw a podcast with him and somebody else a year or so ago and was favorably impressed. I have only recently come across his website. I think he has some interesting stuff, and I’ve become a more regular viewer.

  177. @Sam Haysom
    I agree compared to all the high impact changes you’ve been making Trump has really dropped the ball.

    Honestly shut the fuck up you and Steve and all the alt right have spent twenty years complaining and haven’t changed a damn thing. Lol Trump doesn’t even know who steve sailer is- instead trump was influenced by Ann Coulter- a writer I’m sure you reject as an agent of Israel.

    Mocking dumb blacks but not in person of course and cowering from Jews when you aren’t jacking off to how smart and clever they are. That’s the epitaph of the boomer alt right. Just a lower IQ lower t version of the feckless revolutionaries Doestovesky was always parodying.

    Do you even read Ann Coulter? You don’t seem to know what she’s been writing lately. In any event, Trump probably isn’t influenced by Sailer, but was influenced by Coulter. And whom do you think influences Ann Coulter? I bet she’s a semi-regular reader of this website.

    You really don’t know a goddamned thing about anything, do you, you vulgar, bloviating a**hole.

  178. @notsaying
    What is a "civic nationalist"?

    I of course don’t think being American requires European ancestry. That is what civic nationalist means in American terms.

    My ancestors were here many generations before the United States was even a concept, so I’m pretty damn secure in my sole ethnicity: American. And my ancestors were not nice people, thank God. Because nice people don’t conquer most of the best land on a continent, even from Stone Age peoples. (As an aside, nice people also don’t trade in stolen property. But that doesn’t seem to stop recent progressive immigrants from moving here and lecturing about American sins of the past. I can’t leave easily — I was born here. If American history bugs you as an immigrant, get the hell out — it’s honestly the only moral thing to do.)

    If these primitive peoples were saints I might feel bad. They were not remotely saints, just primitive. So even in a contest with English colonists — which modern history explains were much inferior to the Chinese and Indians of the 16th and 17th centuries — the Native Americans lost. So I don’t feel bad they were conquered. Who loses to losers?

    After gaining a foothold on a vast beautiful continent called North America, my ancestral cultural group eventually imported slaves to work agricultural lands, a common practice thousands of years old throughout the world. My ancestors at first lacked the ability to penetrate beyond the coastline of West Africa, so it was mainly the Portuguese and Spanish that contracted with the local West African businessmen and Arab entrepreneurs to procure the labor supply. Later on my ancestral cultural group — acquiring the name American — did get in on the action. It was an embarrassing small piece of the total slave trade, however, and as jingoistic Americans we tend to play it up as central to world history. It was not. Indeed, it was a stunningly minor footnote in the history of human slavery. But wrongs were of course still done.

    As my people continued to expand west across a vast beautiful continent, besides the pesky Native Americans, they did encounter Mexico, a country so inept vast Texas and beautiful California were essentially unsettled…and into a great new country they were quickly absorbed.

    There was of course some minor unpleasantness regarding disagreements about involuntary servitude.

    While all this was happening, the young country was getting overrun with immigrants whose later descendants — some iSteve commenters — idiotically think are central to the American story. Yet my ancestors didn’t change their language, their religion, their culture, their ways. Because they didn’t need to. This was their land. Most — all of the good — immigrants did change their ways. As they damn well should have. And the process was not pleasant. And the civic nationalists didn’t give a damn that it was unpleasant. And the immigrants became Americans. And Jamestown became theirs. Yorktown became theirs. The Bill of Rights became theirs. Gettysburg became theirs. Whether their ancestors were here at that time or not is immaterial.

    And whether their ancestors were white or not is immaterial.

    Because I don’t think patriotism is dying because of genetics. A country can be diverse and not celebrate diversity. It’s not predestined.

    Civic nationalism is dying because civic nationalists are themselves weak. I do happen to think a strong assimilation cultural war would indeed lower immigration in general, and from many non-white countries very strongly. And that bothers me not one bit. Many groups have very strong cultural patterns, and if they are moving to America in large numbers it’s essentially because minimal changes are being demanded of them from us. That needs to change. (It obviously will never change if we go around whining apologetically about our history all the time.)

    But if you’re with the program, you’re one of us, regardless of where you are from or what you look like.

  179. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Really? And are these tech companies scouring Montana Tech, the University of Arkansas, Southern Illinois University, or hundreds of other state universities for tech talent? My direct experience is that most Silicon Valley tech companies may be immigrant rich, but extremely provincial. Most of the rest of the country is not recruited for talent, and the 'H-1B is needed because of talent shortage' is pure BS.

    This country groans under the weight of worthless Computer Science masters degree programs -- most of these programs are at accredited schools -- that exist to give Indians and Chinese a shot at citizenship while making money off of them. They lack the rigour of a bachelors degree from the same universities, gotten by the American students.

    And then the companies filter for masters degrees for employment. I myself have several Computer Science Phds on my team. We all do the same type work.

    In my experience hiring process are all over the place out here. The Masters required in my experience is more for government or companies who contract for the government though probably others do it too.

    In the past 5-10 years the FANGs esp (but many others too) have leaned heavily on coding tests as a major part of their developer hiring and it’s been fairly democratizing.

    A young friend just got a new-grad offer from Amazon on Seattle to work on AWS. He’s finishing CS at San Francisco State after transferring in from a community college. As you know SFSU is no better than “University of Arkansas” brand wise. And i don’t know about Southern Illinois University, but I’ve worked with several people from UIUC.

    Even for mid career people i know basically they have to grind leetcode for a few weeks to get up to speed on dumb problem solving to change jobs even if they’re currently actively coding. Then it’s a matter of luck.

    Ironic personal anecdote:
    Only time i applied to FB (because the Greek guy, a former boss, convinced me to apply when he started there) i didn’t make it through the tech phone screen. I actually solved the coding problems fine if not particularly quickly (because i didn’t practice), but the (uppity ) Indian guy giving the interview didn’t understand that the algorithm i used was equivalent to what he says i should have done. So my experience, pedigree, recommendation from a manger who worked there AND being correct got me nowhere in that case.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    UIUC is one of the top CS programs in the country. That's like saying tech companies are slumming by going to Pittsburgh to interview Carnegie Mellon grads. That is not looking hard for talent. That is paying top dollar for known talent. And again means there is no excuse for H-1Bs. Most schools in this country are ignored.

    And masters degree for government requirements? No, it's a simple way to:

    a) hire foreign as lots of foreigners come for a masters degree, so ignoring American bachelors holders is easy
    b) those graduates qualify for the OPT visa

  180. @vhrm
    1) no argument on the property prices and cost of living. But that's only weakly due to international migration. If the same jobs were held by native born Americans it would be the same thing. (if the jobs were overseas instead, then yes it would be better).

    3)


    I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There’s no there there.
     
    I don't think this is an immigrant thing. It's what "Office Space", "Bowling Alone" etc are about.

    On immigration generally... what can i say, I'm pretty convinced that we shouldn't import low IQ "underclass" types by the millions when we're getting to a point that the left half of the curve are just not going to be employable and they'll exacerbate our wealth and income inequality issues.

    On the smart people side which we've been discussing I'm less convinced of the damage to the nation ongoing, especially if the flows are limited...

    BTW, H1B is a BS program that should be tossed. they should absolutely not be tied to an employer. (and yes i agree that the "we absolutely couldn't find an American Sr. Java engineer is a lie. we like this foreign one better... is more true). I'd just make them immigrant visas to begin with.

    H-1Bs can easily switch employers. They do all the time. They just need to continue working at some sort of tech job to remain in the country, without more than 2 month gaps in between jobs.

    So H-1Bs are absolutely not getting a raw deal. Americans are.

    But amazingly — because of this non-existent issue — you think H-1Bs should just straight up be given immigrant visas. Because of IQ? Seriously? Are they improving our gene pool too? How gracious of them.

    I obviously have been the victim of an elaborate troll.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    I'm saying a few different things:

    1) As a policy choice, i think that bringing in and assimilating smarter than avg, relatively functional and skilled people is, most other things being equal, good for the US.
    (e.g. this doesn't hold if said people are psychopaths, or foreign agents or with strongly held deeply incompatible values)

    2) As an implementation of policy (whatever one wants that policy to be) I'm saying that h1b is an overly complex and tortured piece of the immigration system.

    It is inherently dishonest because in practice most employers and employees lie when using them:
    - employers lie when they say they CAN'T find an American DBA or Java developer or whatever. if you look long enough and pay enough, possibly more than it's worth to you, of course you'll find one.

    - employees often lie when they say (as they must) that they have no interest in immigrating to the US, when most actually DO want to stay.

    - i don't think that long time but ime limited visas are "good". To have someone live somewhere for 5 or 10 years and then have to leave and never come back is just weird both for the person and for the community, imo. Instead of that, it would be better to disallow it altogether. Like limit it to clearly a "visitor" sort of thing like 90 days or 180 days or something.

    - I'm saying the whole thing should be revamped into something else. like a points based immigration system where having a (at market or above market) job offer confers a good amount of points towards your score. It maybe something else, but not what it is now.

    ---
    Unfortunately, it is impossible politically to even have this conversation since it gets tied in to the whole huddled masses, illegal border surge stuff.
  181. @vhrm
    In my experience hiring process are all over the place out here. The Masters required in my experience is more for government or companies who contract for the government though probably others do it too.

    In the past 5-10 years the FANGs esp (but many others too) have leaned heavily on coding tests as a major part of their developer hiring and it's been fairly democratizing.

    A young friend just got a new-grad offer from Amazon on Seattle to work on AWS. He's finishing CS at San Francisco State after transferring in from a community college. As you know SFSU is no better than "University of Arkansas" brand wise. And i don't know about Southern Illinois University, but I've worked with several people from UIUC.

    Even for mid career people i know basically they have to grind leetcode for a few weeks to get up to speed on dumb problem solving to change jobs even if they're currently actively coding. Then it's a matter of luck.

    Ironic personal anecdote:
    Only time i applied to FB (because the Greek guy, a former boss, convinced me to apply when he started there) i didn't make it through the tech phone screen. I actually solved the coding problems fine if not particularly quickly (because i didn't practice), but the (uppity ) Indian guy giving the interview didn't understand that the algorithm i used was equivalent to what he says i should have done. So my experience, pedigree, recommendation from a manger who worked there AND being correct got me nowhere in that case.

    UIUC is one of the top CS programs in the country. That’s like saying tech companies are slumming by going to Pittsburgh to interview Carnegie Mellon grads. That is not looking hard for talent. That is paying top dollar for known talent. And again means there is no excuse for H-1Bs. Most schools in this country are ignored.

    And masters degree for government requirements? No, it’s a simple way to:

    a) hire foreign as lots of foreigners come for a masters degree, so ignoring American bachelors holders is easy
    b) those graduates qualify for the OPT visa

  182. @alt right moderate
    The liberal globalist media is very selective with its praise and blame in handling the virus outbreak. For example, the liberal left in the UK is full of phrase for New Zealand for a low body count, but neglects to mention that Australia has done just as well with a less aggressive shutdown. Ireland gets some praise for doing better than the UK, yet Hungary, which has also done pretty well, gets criticised for being too authoritarian. And poor old Uruguay doesn't get even get a mention, despite having even better stats than Australia and New Zealand.

    The common denominator is that left-liberal governments get praised for being successful and nationalist or right-wing governments get knocked.

    It's also interesting how the medical industrial complex isn't mentioning the strong connection between warm, sunny weather and virus spread. Countries and states which are rapidly warming, such as Texas, Greece, Spain, Tunisia and Lebanon are also experiencing a much more rapid fall off in new cases compared to still cool places like England, Belgium and New York.

    The media across the west operates as a borderless propaganda force for liberal governments where ever they happen to be in office. The NZ case is instructive: many of the ludicrous Jacinda hagiographies turn out to be produced by NZers working for big media companies in the UK or US (there was one from the Washington Post recently that was exactly that). The government then uses that as an argument that external authorative sources are heaping praise upon them. And the metro-lib classes fall over themselves weeping with ecstacy that their virtue is recieving international recognition.

    Jacinda herself is a kind of projection fantasy for journalists everywhere: with her communications degree from NZ’s lowest ranked university she shows that they too could be leader of their country. And watching Trump do battle each day with America’s ranks of ambitious self-regarding Jacindas sitting in the press corp, maybe one day that is America’s destiny: to be led by a photogenic idiotic female journalist. That certainly seems to be the goal that the media now has in mind – they are active players in the game.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  183. @anon
    Lol. You suckers fell for it. Trump is walking it all back now. Claiming he never promised to reduce the number of legal immigrants (he did). His advisors are admitting this is nothing but red meat to keep the rubes voting for him.


    Trump now denying he ever wanted to reduce *legal* immigration.
    — Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian) April 21, 2020

    Trump says 60-day order, could be renewed, but does not apply to *any* guestworkers. Unbelievable. https://t.co/8anu8MpCwR
    — Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian) April 21, 2020

    “By Tuesday afternoon — amid the business backlash — officials acknowledged that devising an order that applied to some guest workers but not others would be overly complicated, and they abandoned it.” https://t.co/9Ov4nrjWbP

    — Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian) April 22, 2020
     
    "During today’s White House presser, the Corps of Engineers general said 164 miles of the border war have been built"

    Great. Just another 75 years before we get it all. I knew Trump could do it. #KAG

    Why anyone believes Trump is really any sort of populist is beyond me. He is the quintessential American grifter.

  184. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    H-1Bs can easily switch employers. They do all the time. They just need to continue working at some sort of tech job to remain in the country, without more than 2 month gaps in between jobs.

    So H-1Bs are absolutely not getting a raw deal. Americans are.

    But amazingly -- because of this non-existent issue -- you think H-1Bs should just straight up be given immigrant visas. Because of IQ? Seriously? Are they improving our gene pool too? How gracious of them.

    I obviously have been the victim of an elaborate troll.

    I’m saying a few different things:

    1) As a policy choice, i think that bringing in and assimilating smarter than avg, relatively functional and skilled people is, most other things being equal, good for the US.
    (e.g. this doesn’t hold if said people are psychopaths, or foreign agents or with strongly held deeply incompatible values)

    2) As an implementation of policy (whatever one wants that policy to be) I’m saying that h1b is an overly complex and tortured piece of the immigration system.

    It is inherently dishonest because in practice most employers and employees lie when using them:
    – employers lie when they say they CAN’T find an American DBA or Java developer or whatever. if you look long enough and pay enough, possibly more than it’s worth to you, of course you’ll find one.

    – employees often lie when they say (as they must) that they have no interest in immigrating to the US, when most actually DO want to stay.

    – i don’t think that long time but ime limited visas are “good”. To have someone live somewhere for 5 or 10 years and then have to leave and never come back is just weird both for the person and for the community, imo. Instead of that, it would be better to disallow it altogether. Like limit it to clearly a “visitor” sort of thing like 90 days or 180 days or something.

    – I’m saying the whole thing should be revamped into something else. like a points based immigration system where having a (at market or above market) job offer confers a good amount of points towards your score. It maybe something else, but not what it is now.


    Unfortunately, it is impossible politically to even have this conversation since it gets tied in to the whole huddled masses, illegal border surge stuff.

    • Agree: Big Dick Bandit
    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    H-1B is a tortured immigration system.

    It's tortured precisely to both hide, and provide justification for, the damage it is doing to America and Americans. That's it.

    America has had so much LEGAL immigration since 1965 we don't need a fancy new immigration system.

    We simply need to cut annual Green Card issuance by 75 or 80 percent per year, at the least. How that much smaller group is chosen is much less important than radically reducing the total number and sticking to it.

    We need to simply stop accepting new H-1Bs (and OPT) applications. Those already in the program will eventually convert to Green Cards or leave.

    And yes, we need to deport illegal immigrants. But outside of the all the non-immigrant visa programs, which are stupid, the issue is not with the current setup of our immigration system, it's with the intent and resulting execution. Which is far too immigrant-centric.

    My concern is with Americans. I am American. The concerns of immigrants are pretty far down my priority list, as should be for all citizens of any land, really. And since my native land already has 330 million people, I think we have an overabundance of local talent to draw from, for any occupation.
  185. @Cortes
    HMRC is very likely poring over all sorts of financial transactions during the shutdown involving the owners of businesses that have a high cash throughput. The taxman’s favourite target for investigation may return to an environment tweaked to cut off some more of the blatant avenues of evasion.

    The sterling work of the DVLA in closing down the abuse of the “caravanette” coding by businesses should be useful as a model.

    You have more faith in HMRC than I do. Apart from anything else, there’s such a thing as disparate impact aka “indirect discrimination” in UK law.

    The people I see paying cash in large amounts at the warehouse are always Asian, don’t think I’ve ever seen a Native Brit doing it.

    The sterling work of the DVLA in closing down the abuse of the “caravanette” coding by businesses should be useful as a model.

    I thought I knew my small business tax, not heard of this though – what is (or was) it?

  186. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    1) Driving up property values has been an absolute disaster for working class and middle class Americans in the Bay Area who already didn't own property.

    2) I think assimilation is fairly high in East Asian Christians, and those from the Philippines. That's about it. I'm even civic nationalist enough to feel like home in some of those neighborhoods.

    3) Outside of muslims, Indians are literally the least assimilated group. Note: knowledge of English doesn't make you assimilated at all. I actually think it harms Indian assimilation as they believe English proficiency is all that is necessary for assimilation, and that was learned in India. I'm continually astonished by the extreme lack of knowledge or curiosity about American culture and customs. I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There's no there there.

    And yes, I actually don't have an issue with Indians. The ones in Silicon Valley should be filling pleasant neighborhoods in Bangalore and Chennai. I've lived in lots of neighborhoods in America that were virtually immigrant free and filled with very nice people also, so telling me Silicon Valley immigrants aren't bad people to be around doesn't really impress me much if my own countrymen are getting displaced. That's as dumb as me liking my co-workers and then supporting the H-1B program. Guess what -- I do like my foreign co-workers. And I like my American ones too. And I would have liked my potential American co-workers who were never hired because an H-1B was hired in their place.

    And of course, Americans should be oh so happy that foreigners pay taxes from jobs the Americans can easily fill. In what universe does that make sense?

    You sound like Jeb Bush or Paul Ryan. Seriously.

    i’m an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for “Code American” to be a thing, mostly because it seems like such an obvious populist move.

    there is no reason we shouldn’t be agitating for hiring American Coders aside from “we’d have to pay a little more”–what’s interesting to me is that there are tons of 2nd Gen Indians+Taiwanese (and their parents) who would be fine suspending H1B because their kids (who are very much American and assimilated well) are also competing for those jobs with guys from the motherland.

    for what it’s worth, those 2nd Gen kids are pretty fantastic on the whole. they’re good students to grow up with, and contrary to stereotype they’re largely extraverted and well-rounded–not just number crunching drones. had a lot of Chatterjee+Hsu’s as friends growing up. good people.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    I live in Silicon Valley too. And yes, one of the reasons I have no issues or qualms about frankly discussing immigration restriction here -- to immigrants themselves -- is precisely because I am a civic nationalist and their kids are indeed American. Even the easily offended ones who gobble up the incessant pro-immigration propaganda constantly shoved down Americans' throats realize I think their kids are one of us, and their kids could have problems in the future. I lobbied my firm to get more American interns and they did. These kids were not all white, but very American.
    , @Anonymous

    i’m an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for “Code American” to be a thing
     
    What is “Code American”?
    , @vhrm

    i’m an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for “Code American” to be a thing, mostly because it seems like such an obvious populist move.
     
    I don't see this happening anytime soon. This place is Globalization Central.

    At my last job there was a ( Socialist) guy who was really gung ho about unionization.

    Theoretically i like this because of the basic imbalance in power between the company and a single employee. But i really can't imagine how it would work. The idea of a single employer seniority based system (e.g what airline pilots have) is a non-starter.

    Something like the SAG-AFTRA (show biz) might work in some way, but i still can't picture it.

    Still, some kind of organization like that might work in limiting immigration/outsourcing.
  187. @peterike

    Supposedly the zoom ceo is a Chinese national who was denied a visa 8 times. What more do you need to know?
     
    Zoom beat the pants off Webex by being a much more user friendly product. After Cisco bought Webex the product -- already clunky -- just floundered. Cisco did next to nothing to enhance it. Zoom came in at a much lower price point, better features and fantastic ease of use.

    Even now a lot of the "security" issues are user error and bad default configurations (blame your IT department).

    But anyway, so Zoom is owned by a Chinese guy, huh? Gosh, I wonder if Zoom, which can record sessions, is secretly recording communications from organizations of interest to the Chinese government. Has anybody looked into that yet? It would be dead simple for Zoom to do this without anyone being aware and in fact it would have been a brilliant industrial and government espionage move for the Chi gov to have funded the whole thing.

    Webex blows, but Zoom is not getting installed on my computer. Google can spy on me when I use Hangouts.

  188. Hail says: • Website
    @JohnnyWalker123
    You watch the Corbett Report?

    One thing is for sure: James Corbett’s stock has gone up.

    I can’t vouch for everything he says/thinks/believes/does, because I am not that familiar with the full body of his work. But he has been a CoronaSkeptic all along and emerged as an anti-CoronaPanic hardliner relatively early. Unafraid, unbowed, bold, and right.

  189. @vhrm
    I'm saying a few different things:

    1) As a policy choice, i think that bringing in and assimilating smarter than avg, relatively functional and skilled people is, most other things being equal, good for the US.
    (e.g. this doesn't hold if said people are psychopaths, or foreign agents or with strongly held deeply incompatible values)

    2) As an implementation of policy (whatever one wants that policy to be) I'm saying that h1b is an overly complex and tortured piece of the immigration system.

    It is inherently dishonest because in practice most employers and employees lie when using them:
    - employers lie when they say they CAN'T find an American DBA or Java developer or whatever. if you look long enough and pay enough, possibly more than it's worth to you, of course you'll find one.

    - employees often lie when they say (as they must) that they have no interest in immigrating to the US, when most actually DO want to stay.

    - i don't think that long time but ime limited visas are "good". To have someone live somewhere for 5 or 10 years and then have to leave and never come back is just weird both for the person and for the community, imo. Instead of that, it would be better to disallow it altogether. Like limit it to clearly a "visitor" sort of thing like 90 days or 180 days or something.

    - I'm saying the whole thing should be revamped into something else. like a points based immigration system where having a (at market or above market) job offer confers a good amount of points towards your score. It maybe something else, but not what it is now.

    ---
    Unfortunately, it is impossible politically to even have this conversation since it gets tied in to the whole huddled masses, illegal border surge stuff.

    H-1B is a tortured immigration system.

    It’s tortured precisely to both hide, and provide justification for, the damage it is doing to America and Americans. That’s it.

    America has had so much LEGAL immigration since 1965 we don’t need a fancy new immigration system.

    We simply need to cut annual Green Card issuance by 75 or 80 percent per year, at the least. How that much smaller group is chosen is much less important than radically reducing the total number and sticking to it.

    We need to simply stop accepting new H-1Bs (and OPT) applications. Those already in the program will eventually convert to Green Cards or leave.

    And yes, we need to deport illegal immigrants. But outside of the all the non-immigrant visa programs, which are stupid, the issue is not with the current setup of our immigration system, it’s with the intent and resulting execution. Which is far too immigrant-centric.

    My concern is with Americans. I am American. The concerns of immigrants are pretty far down my priority list, as should be for all citizens of any land, really. And since my native land already has 330 million people, I think we have an overabundance of local talent to draw from, for any occupation.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    We need to simply stop accepting new H-1Bs (and OPT) applications. Those already in the program will eventually convert to Green Cards or leave.
     
    Why the hell should we grant any green cards to people here on H-1Bs?

    They dilute Americans’ economic and voting rights, contribute to the destruction of the environment, and weaken social cohesion.

    You said you cared about Americans.
  190. @Big Dick Bandit
    i'm an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for "Code American" to be a thing, mostly because it seems like such an obvious populist move.

    there is no reason we shouldn't be agitating for hiring American Coders aside from "we'd have to pay a little more"--what's interesting to me is that there are tons of 2nd Gen Indians+Taiwanese (and their parents) who would be fine suspending H1B because their kids (who are very much American and assimilated well) are also competing for those jobs with guys from the motherland.

    for what it's worth, those 2nd Gen kids are pretty fantastic on the whole. they're good students to grow up with, and contrary to stereotype they're largely extraverted and well-rounded--not just number crunching drones. had a lot of Chatterjee+Hsu's as friends growing up. good people.

    I live in Silicon Valley too. And yes, one of the reasons I have no issues or qualms about frankly discussing immigration restriction here — to immigrants themselves — is precisely because I am a civic nationalist and their kids are indeed American. Even the easily offended ones who gobble up the incessant pro-immigration propaganda constantly shoved down Americans’ throats realize I think their kids are one of us, and their kids could have problems in the future. I lobbied my firm to get more American interns and they did. These kids were not all white, but very American.

  191. @Joseph Doaks
    Lucifer’s Hammer is a great, detailed fictionalization of a possible SHTF scenario. I re-read it again a few months ago. The big lesson I took away from it was that coordination with a tight-knit, like-minded community is the essential factor for survival. A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won't last a month!

    A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won’t last a month is a target.

  192. Hail says: • Website
    @Hail
    The Trump tweet came after Tucker was off the air so it did not feature on his show.

    Being that Tucker Carlson is slowly getting off the Corona Bandwagon, it will be interesting to see how this latest DJT Big Promise to the Base plays out, given that it is explicitly conditional on CoronaHype staying above a certain decibel level.

    From his April 20, 8pm EDT, Tucker Carlson opening monologue:


    The most terrifying period of this epidemic appears to be coming to an end, if not over.
     

    The time for panic, and there was one, is now over.
     

    Our greatest fear going into this was that our entire healthcare system would collapse under the strain of new cases. That was a real fear, and it was justified. That's why we locked the country down.

    But that collapse never came, and we are grateful for that. The famous 'curve' they told you about has been flattened.

    In the meantime, though, an awful lot of people have been flattened themselves. Badly hurt by our government's response. Children are going uneducated. Tens of millions of people have lost their livelihoods. The whole economy is in tatters. [...]
     

    We see Tucker is still giving lip-service to the sacred precepts of Corona, and still pushes the idea that the 'lockdown' he demanded was justified, but I detect more than a hint of embarrassment in his delivery. You can already hear the updated versions of "I never really believed in the WMDs; that was those other people."

    Tucker covers Corona Coup d'Etat territory, even using the term "coup d'etat" to describe what big-state D-governors did, in collusion with the media and others (was Tucker a useful-idiot?). Tucker would probably be one to start using his influence to push for swift and full re-opening, as Laura Ingraham has been for a long time. But now the "suspension of immigration during the Corona Apocalypse Virus Crisis" thing might preempt that.

    Tucker Carlson slams Trump immigration-suspension plan:

    (Partial transcript of the opening monologue [from 5:15], broadcast 8pm EDT, April 21; transcripted by me)

    The new moratorium on immigration will last for sixty days, at which point it could be extended or it may not be extended.

    The ban will apply only to individuals seeking permanent permanent residency in this country. In other words, people who like the United States enough to stay permanently, and would like green cards to be able to do it legally. But the ban will not apply to those entering the United States on a “temporary basis,” and that means this will not affect guest workers.

    That’s an awful lot of exceptions.

    Every year, our government hands out 80,000 non-agricultural guest worker visas, as well as 85,000 H1b visas, and hundreds of thousands of ag-worker visas.

    The purpose of this tidal wave of immigration has nothing to do with what advocates of immigration claim immigration is for. These visas do not improve American society in any way. We have no moral obligation to give them. There is no mention of guest workers on the Statue of Liberty.

    There’s only one point in handing out hundreds of thousands of these visas to foreign nationals, and it’s to placate Big Business. Employers, always and everywhere, want to hire workers for less. In this case, for less than Americans make. And these visas let them do it.

    You may have just lost your job, but you’ll be happy to know that Accenture can still import IT workers from Asia, who will work for less than you once made.

    So if the point of this executive order was to protect American jobs — maybe there was another point, but if it was to protect American jobs — it failed.

    So how did this happen, exactly? Well, we are not sure, though we do plan to find out…

    That was the main part of interest on the immigration-suspension plan. The rest is set-up and commentary and Tucker-style satirization of the Left.

    Just twenty-two hours after the tweet, it was already clear it was nothing like what a VDare plan would look like, another attempted bone-toss to the low-info wing of the old MAGA coalition.

    _____________

    It is a great monologue with Tucker back in his usual style. An earlier portion of the monologue has Tucker slamming “Pampered Americans who Oppose an Immigration Moratorium” [from 2:55].

    Transcript by me; this is worth quoting/reading/for reference:

    And yet some people in this country still oppose the idea [of an immigration pause].

    Who are these people, and why did they oppose it?

    Well, people who have been pampered and enriched by waves of low-wage immigration. They’re against it. Politicians whose hopes for power rest on changing this country’s population oppose it, too. They’d rather see Americans unemployed. In fact, anyone whose livelihood depends upon selling out the country is apt to be very threatened by this.

    Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is squarely in that category. …[She is] appalled by the notion of cutting immigration during the worst unemployment crisis of our lifetimes. As she just explained on MSNBC, that’s immoral.

    >> [Video clip.] MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell: “How do you feel about the president’s messaging on immigration?” ALBRIGHT: “Well, I’m stunned. And I really do think that the Statue of Liberty is weeping. It is un-American.” <<

    Got that? It’s "un-American" to act in the economic interests of Americans. That's Madeleine Albright's position.

    But at least we'll say this for her. She seemed coherent as she said it:

    Former presidential candidate Robert "Beto" O'Rourke, — who is technically unemployed himself, though still very rich — erupted in a primal scream when he heard the news. He tweeted this, quote: “Who the F– do you think is working on the farms and feedlots, and the packing houses and processing plants, at a time we are struggling to feed ourselves? Who is in the kitchen, who is picking, preparing, serving the food we eat and cleaning up afterwards?”

    Honestly, those are all very good questions — if you are an 18th century French marquis.

    As the country falls apart around him, “Beteaux’s” first and main concern is preserving America’s sacred caste system. The native-born working on farms? In kitchens? In factories? ‘Sacre bleu!,’ schreeched “Beteaux.” It’s unnatural, unthinkable, it is wrong. We must have a compliant underclass. We must!

    Madeleine Albright thinks protecting Americans is Un-American.

    Subtext: Immigrants are the Real Americans. Subtext: Native-born, multi-generational Americans are less-American and their interests don’t matter. They are morally inferior to The Real Americans.

    As for the satirization of Beto (“Beteaux”) there, no one does it better than Tucker.

    • Replies: @danand

    “Who is in the kitchen, who is picking, preparing, serving the food we eat and cleaning up afterwards?”
     
    Hail, for O’Rourke to make a statement like that takes a special kind of disconnection. Makes one wonder who Beto thinks the vast majority of his supporters are?
    , @Hail
    Tucker Carlson followed up on the Trump "Corona Immigration Ban" hoax.

    Tucker's MO is that he knows he has a "direct, emergency line" to the president via his broadcasts, and, knowing Trump's temperament, Tucker almost always errs on the side of blaming advisers and not blaming Trump in order to get the messages through. This was another case of the same (see bolded text below). Maybe it's even true. But what does that say about Trump?

    In the second segment of the April 22 8pm EDT broadcast, Tucker said the following (transcribed by me):


    At least 22 million Americans have lost their jobs since our political leaders started instituting mass quarantines.

    On Monday night, the president announced he would help them with a temporary moratorium on immigration into the United States. That was his plan. It turned out it was sincere. We know that because this show has learned the president's original draft executive order, the original one, would have suspended several guest worker programs, the ones that prevent qualified Americans from getting jobs.

    That would have been a big help for a hurting country. Here's why: Every year, 180,000 new H-1b visas are awarded [...]. These are not for people picking grapes or lettuce. These are for people making good wages in white collar jobs. Currently there are about 470,000 active beneficiaries of this program, almost half a million, all foreigners in good-paying jobs that Americans are qualified for, and could have. Suspending that program for a year would open up a massive number of jobs at a time when we desperately need them [...]

    [It's not] about who's going pick the crops, it has nothing to do with picking the crops. It's who's going to work at Accenture.

    Unfortunately, something happened to that executive order on the way to being signed by the president. The final version, signed just hours ago, does not restrict any foreign workers at all. All of them are free to keep coming here and taking American jobs, including high-paying American jobs.

    So what exactly does the order do? Well,according to the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which provided us with an analysis of it, only fifty to eighty thousand current green card applications may be affected by this. That's less than 10% of the 1 million people who get lawful permanent residency in this country every year, so for most of these this will amount to merely a temporary delay in the handling of their applications.

    How did this happen? It's a grave disappointment. Who did this? How did we get from a sincere effort -- the president announced it and he meant it, judging from his first order -- an effort to help suffering American workers, to what we have now, which is a hollow, almost entirely symbolic gesture? We talked to a lot of people about this today in Washington. A lot. And here's the story:

    Apparently, key White House aides were afraid of angering corporate leaders. For example, Apple CEO Tim Cook. Someone actually said that. "What will Tim Cook think?"

    Officials from the Department of Labor and the Council of Economic Advisors pushed for the vast guest worker exemption. They argued that the unemployment benefits in the coronavirus stimulus bill were so generous that American citizens would refuse to go back to work, because it was easier to get a government check, and so we have to bring in more foreigners.

    In other words, welfare for you; real jobs for foreign nationals.
     

  193. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right now a tomato grower in Florida will advertise for tomato pickers in North Dakota, and when he doesn’t get any responses
     
    With the price of oil at a historic low, he may very well get a few responses.


    The price I saw at one of our local pumps today would translate to 18¢/gal in 1968.



    https://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Inflation-Adjusted-Gasoline-Price-Feb-2020.png

    What does the black line represent versus the red line?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    The price shown on the pump at the time.

    30¢ in 1970 was a lot more than $1.30 is today. Hence, the red line to adjust and clarify.
  194. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Big Dick Bandit
    i'm an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for "Code American" to be a thing, mostly because it seems like such an obvious populist move.

    there is no reason we shouldn't be agitating for hiring American Coders aside from "we'd have to pay a little more"--what's interesting to me is that there are tons of 2nd Gen Indians+Taiwanese (and their parents) who would be fine suspending H1B because their kids (who are very much American and assimilated well) are also competing for those jobs with guys from the motherland.

    for what it's worth, those 2nd Gen kids are pretty fantastic on the whole. they're good students to grow up with, and contrary to stereotype they're largely extraverted and well-rounded--not just number crunching drones. had a lot of Chatterjee+Hsu's as friends growing up. good people.

    i’m an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for “Code American” to be a thing

    What is “Code American”?

    • Replies: @Big Dick Bandit
    all i mean by that is some sort of platform/policy initiative where we propose using tax incentives+visa cuts to drive Tech firms to hire American coders, rather than foreign or outsourced.

    same way "Made In America" was a thing for manufacturing, "Code American" (or whatever branding) would emphasize that companies ought be proud to have work done by Americans, and incentivized to do so whenever possible.
  195. @vhrm
    I largely agree.

    However, I'm not sure it's a net loss to the US:

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups ... (unfortunately to the point where their kids become iSteve fodder NYT columnists sometimes ), but overall they (we) are not bad people to live around.
    As you said they tend to drive up property values. USUALLY that's considered a good thing though with the Fed pumping money and the building restrictions in CA ... it's gotten more than ridiculous.

    - These are high tax paying high spending HENRY type families so that's good for the local economy and the budget.

    - The negatives are concentrated on people who directly compete for jobs or housing. There there's no argument.

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups

    When polled the Pajeets consistently show a high willingness to both restrict speech and to restrict guns. IOW they’re not in favor of the first two amendments. The NYT crowed about how they helped tilt Virginia to the Dems, in large part supporting Governor Blackface’s gun grabbing plans.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    The Raj didn't want Indians to have guns, either.
  196. @Hail
    Tucker Carlson slams Trump immigration-suspension plan:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWLA6si4Tak

    (Partial transcript of the opening monologue [from 5:15], broadcast 8pm EDT, April 21; transcripted by me)


    The new moratorium on immigration will last for sixty days, at which point it could be extended or it may not be extended.

    The ban will apply only to individuals seeking permanent permanent residency in this country. In other words, people who like the United States enough to stay permanently, and would like green cards to be able to do it legally. But the ban will not apply to those entering the United States on a "temporary basis," and that means this will not affect guest workers.

    That’s an awful lot of exceptions.

    Every year, our government hands out 80,000 non-agricultural guest worker visas, as well as 85,000 H1b visas, and hundreds of thousands of ag-worker visas.

    The purpose of this tidal wave of immigration has nothing to do with what advocates of immigration claim immigration is for. These visas do not improve American society in any way. We have no moral obligation to give them. There is no mention of guest workers on the Statue of Liberty.

    There’s only one point in handing out hundreds of thousands of these visas to foreign nationals, and it's to placate Big Business. Employers, always and everywhere, want to hire workers for less. In this case, for less than Americans make. And these visas let them do it.
     


    You may have just lost your job, but you'll be happy to know that Accenture can still import IT workers from Asia, who will work for less than you once made.

    So if the point of this executive order was to protect American jobs -- maybe there was another point, but if it was to protect American jobs -- it failed.

    So how did this happen, exactly? Well, we are not sure, though we do plan to find out...
     

    That was the main part of interest on the immigration-suspension plan. The rest is set-up and commentary and Tucker-style satirization of the Left.

    Just twenty-two hours after the tweet, it was already clear it was nothing like what a VDare plan would look like, another attempted bone-toss to the low-info wing of the old MAGA coalition.

    _____________

    It is a great monologue with Tucker back in his usual style. An earlier portion of the monologue has Tucker slamming "Pampered Americans who Oppose an Immigration Moratorium" [from 2:55].

    Transcript by me; this is worth quoting/reading/for reference:


    And yet some people in this country still oppose the idea [of an immigration pause].

    Who are these people, and why did they oppose it?

    Well, people who have been pampered and enriched by waves of low-wage immigration. They're against it. Politicians whose hopes for power rest on changing this country's population oppose it, too. They'd rather see Americans unemployed. In fact, anyone whose livelihood depends upon selling out the country is apt to be very threatened by this.

    Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is squarely in that category. ...[She is] appalled by the notion of cutting immigration during the worst unemployment crisis of our lifetimes. As she just explained on MSNBC, that’s immoral.

    >> [Video clip.] MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell: "How do you feel about the president’s messaging on immigration?" ALBRIGHT: "Well, I’m stunned. And I really do think that the Statue of Liberty is weeping. It is un-American." <<

    Got that? It’s "un-American" to act in the economic interests of Americans. That's Madeleine Albright's position.

    But at least we'll say this for her. She seemed coherent as she said it:

    Former presidential candidate Robert "Beto" O'Rourke, -- who is technically unemployed himself, though still very rich -- erupted in a primal scream when he heard the news. He tweeted this, quote: "Who the F-- do you think is working on the farms and feedlots, and the packing houses and processing plants, at a time we are struggling to feed ourselves? Who is in the kitchen, who is picking, preparing, serving the food we eat and cleaning up afterwards?"

    Honestly, those are all very good questions -- if you are an 18th century French marquis.

    As the country falls apart around him, "Beteaux's" first and main concern is preserving America’s sacred caste system. The native-born working on farms? In kitchens? In factories? 'Sacre bleu!,' schreeched "Beteaux." It’s unnatural, unthinkable, it is wrong. We must have a compliant underclass. We must!
     

    Madeleine Albright thinks protecting Americans is Un-American.

    Subtext: Immigrants are the Real Americans. Subtext: Native-born, multi-generational Americans are less-American and their interests don't matter. They are morally inferior to The Real Americans.

    As for the satirization of Beto ("Beteaux") there, no one does it better than Tucker.

    “Who is in the kitchen, who is picking, preparing, serving the food we eat and cleaning up afterwards?”

    Hail, for O’Rourke to make a statement like that takes a special kind of disconnection. Makes one wonder who Beto thinks the vast majority of his supporters are?

    • Replies: @anon
    Beteaux O'Rourke comes from a political family in the one-party county of El Paso. Don't take my word for it, pull up the maps from the last 20 years of elections, there is no GOP or GOPe there. None. The vast majority of his supporters for Congress were Hispanic D's, white D's and goodwhites who believe that the old movie "Day without a Mexican" is a documentary.

    He's twitter-pandering to his D base with zero self awareness of how stupid that make him to other people. Beteaux is emotion driven, and so he goes off into these weird spasm sometimes. That's why he's probably peaked in politics, and will be relegated to the "commentary" space from now on. Not enough self control.
    , @Hail

    that takes a special kind of disconnection. Makes one wonder who Beto thinks the vast majority of his supporters are?
     
    Truly right. He tipped his hand.

    I am surprised he didn't delete the tweet. It is still up:

    https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/1252635545982963712

  197. anon[774] • Disclaimer says:
    @danand

    “Who is in the kitchen, who is picking, preparing, serving the food we eat and cleaning up afterwards?”
     
    Hail, for O’Rourke to make a statement like that takes a special kind of disconnection. Makes one wonder who Beto thinks the vast majority of his supporters are?

    Beteaux O’Rourke comes from a political family in the one-party county of El Paso. Don’t take my word for it, pull up the maps from the last 20 years of elections, there is no GOP or GOPe there. None. The vast majority of his supporters for Congress were Hispanic D’s, white D’s and goodwhites who believe that the old movie “Day without a Mexican” is a documentary.

    He’s twitter-pandering to his D base with zero self awareness of how stupid that make him to other people. Beteaux is emotion driven, and so he goes off into these weird spasm sometimes. That’s why he’s probably peaked in politics, and will be relegated to the “commentary” space from now on. Not enough self control.

  198. anon[774] • Disclaimer says:
    @vhrm
    I largely agree.

    However, I'm not sure it's a net loss to the US:

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups ... (unfortunately to the point where their kids become iSteve fodder NYT columnists sometimes ), but overall they (we) are not bad people to live around.
    As you said they tend to drive up property values. USUALLY that's considered a good thing though with the Fed pumping money and the building restrictions in CA ... it's gotten more than ridiculous.

    - These are high tax paying high spending HENRY type families so that's good for the local economy and the budget.

    - The negatives are concentrated on people who directly compete for jobs or housing. There there's no argument.

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups …

    Assimilation to what?

    Assimilation to the pozzed world of globalhomo? Agree.
    Assimilation to the historic America? No. Not even a little bit.

    The Virginia elections are just one example: Northern Virginia is seriously colonized by those “assimilating” people, and they vote D very reliably. You may not have a problem with further importation of a real, live caste system to the US but other people do, and for good reasons. Like the inherent corruption of a one-party state for a start

  199. @danand

    “Who is in the kitchen, who is picking, preparing, serving the food we eat and cleaning up afterwards?”
     
    Hail, for O’Rourke to make a statement like that takes a special kind of disconnection. Makes one wonder who Beto thinks the vast majority of his supporters are?

    that takes a special kind of disconnection. Makes one wonder who Beto thinks the vast majority of his supporters are?

    Truly right. He tipped his hand.

    I am surprised he didn’t delete the tweet. It is still up:

    • Replies: @peterike

    Truly right. He tipped his hand.

     

    Beto understands who his supporters are. More importantly, he knows who his funders are. That tweet was for them.
  200. @Hail

    that takes a special kind of disconnection. Makes one wonder who Beto thinks the vast majority of his supporters are?
     
    Truly right. He tipped his hand.

    I am surprised he didn't delete the tweet. It is still up:

    https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/1252635545982963712

    Truly right. He tipped his hand.

    Beto understands who his supporters are. More importantly, he knows who his funders are. That tweet was for them.

  201. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)
    H-1B is a tortured immigration system.

    It's tortured precisely to both hide, and provide justification for, the damage it is doing to America and Americans. That's it.

    America has had so much LEGAL immigration since 1965 we don't need a fancy new immigration system.

    We simply need to cut annual Green Card issuance by 75 or 80 percent per year, at the least. How that much smaller group is chosen is much less important than radically reducing the total number and sticking to it.

    We need to simply stop accepting new H-1Bs (and OPT) applications. Those already in the program will eventually convert to Green Cards or leave.

    And yes, we need to deport illegal immigrants. But outside of the all the non-immigrant visa programs, which are stupid, the issue is not with the current setup of our immigration system, it's with the intent and resulting execution. Which is far too immigrant-centric.

    My concern is with Americans. I am American. The concerns of immigrants are pretty far down my priority list, as should be for all citizens of any land, really. And since my native land already has 330 million people, I think we have an overabundance of local talent to draw from, for any occupation.

    We need to simply stop accepting new H-1Bs (and OPT) applications. Those already in the program will eventually convert to Green Cards or leave.

    Why the hell should we grant any green cards to people here on H-1Bs?

    They dilute Americans’ economic and voting rights, contribute to the destruction of the environment, and weaken social cohesion.

    You said you cared about Americans.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    WTF?

    My solution REQUIRES NO MORE EFFORT THAN TO SIMPLY STOP ACCEPTING NEW H-1B and OPT APPLICATIONS.

    That's it.
    It's easy to implement governmentally.
    It's easy to pass court muster.
    It's easy for the public to grasp.
    It's easy for political slogans....
    Time to end a temporary tech program with thanks to all, but our nation's youth need to assume the burden now.

    Minimize sob stories in the media about poor programmers being sent home early after moving here.

    Minimize sob stories about new H-1Bs being unfairly treated as compared to previous visa holders: hence yes they would retain the same ability to apply for Green Cards as all previous holders. Most are not sponsored, by the way.

    Minimize sob stories about oh no how will companies manage? They'll have 6 years as the pipeline slowly empties, and be able to sponsor some they really like.

    And with all that said, it would still be a vicious God damned battle to have it all end.

    So I don't apologize for realizing that it took decades to get in this damn mess, and taking little more than 5 years to exit with a few tens of thousands of Green Cards would be a God damned enormous victory for us Americans.

    Because I want victory. I want to win.

    Not some pissing and moaning about how we can't get rid of them all yesterday, and why hasn't Trump built 11 million miles of wall yet.
  202. @Anonymous

    i’m an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for “Code American” to be a thing
     
    What is “Code American”?

    all i mean by that is some sort of platform/policy initiative where we propose using tax incentives+visa cuts to drive Tech firms to hire American coders, rather than foreign or outsourced.

    same way “Made In America” was a thing for manufacturing, “Code American” (or whatever branding) would emphasize that companies ought be proud to have work done by Americans, and incentivized to do so whenever possible.

  203. @Big Dick Bandit
    i'm an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for "Code American" to be a thing, mostly because it seems like such an obvious populist move.

    there is no reason we shouldn't be agitating for hiring American Coders aside from "we'd have to pay a little more"--what's interesting to me is that there are tons of 2nd Gen Indians+Taiwanese (and their parents) who would be fine suspending H1B because their kids (who are very much American and assimilated well) are also competing for those jobs with guys from the motherland.

    for what it's worth, those 2nd Gen kids are pretty fantastic on the whole. they're good students to grow up with, and contrary to stereotype they're largely extraverted and well-rounded--not just number crunching drones. had a lot of Chatterjee+Hsu's as friends growing up. good people.

    i’m an American white guy in Sil Valley Tech. i keep waiting for “Code American” to be a thing, mostly because it seems like such an obvious populist move.

    I don’t see this happening anytime soon. This place is Globalization Central.

    At my last job there was a ( Socialist) guy who was really gung ho about unionization.

    Theoretically i like this because of the basic imbalance in power between the company and a single employee. But i really can’t imagine how it would work. The idea of a single employer seniority based system (e.g what airline pilots have) is a non-starter.

    Something like the SAG-AFTRA (show biz) might work in some way, but i still can’t picture it.

    Still, some kind of organization like that might work in limiting immigration/outsourcing.

  204. @Anonymous

    We need to simply stop accepting new H-1Bs (and OPT) applications. Those already in the program will eventually convert to Green Cards or leave.
     
    Why the hell should we grant any green cards to people here on H-1Bs?

    They dilute Americans’ economic and voting rights, contribute to the destruction of the environment, and weaken social cohesion.

    You said you cared about Americans.

    WTF?

    My solution REQUIRES NO MORE EFFORT THAN TO SIMPLY STOP ACCEPTING NEW H-1B and OPT APPLICATIONS.

    That’s it.
    It’s easy to implement governmentally.
    It’s easy to pass court muster.
    It’s easy for the public to grasp.
    It’s easy for political slogans….
    Time to end a temporary tech program with thanks to all, but our nation’s youth need to assume the burden now.

    Minimize sob stories in the media about poor programmers being sent home early after moving here.

    Minimize sob stories about new H-1Bs being unfairly treated as compared to previous visa holders: hence yes they would retain the same ability to apply for Green Cards as all previous holders. Most are not sponsored, by the way.

    Minimize sob stories about oh no how will companies manage? They’ll have 6 years as the pipeline slowly empties, and be able to sponsor some they really like.

    And with all that said, it would still be a vicious God damned battle to have it all end.

    So I don’t apologize for realizing that it took decades to get in this damn mess, and taking little more than 5 years to exit with a few tens of thousands of Green Cards would be a God damned enormous victory for us Americans.

    Because I want victory. I want to win.

    Not some pissing and moaning about how we can’t get rid of them all yesterday, and why hasn’t Trump built 11 million miles of wall yet.

  205. @vhrm
    1) no argument on the property prices and cost of living. But that's only weakly due to international migration. If the same jobs were held by native born Americans it would be the same thing. (if the jobs were overseas instead, then yes it would be better).

    3)


    I have no desire to trade my country for a bland global office park, which is the exact type of civic and community culture you have in Silicon Valley. There’s no there there.
     
    I don't think this is an immigrant thing. It's what "Office Space", "Bowling Alone" etc are about.

    On immigration generally... what can i say, I'm pretty convinced that we shouldn't import low IQ "underclass" types by the millions when we're getting to a point that the left half of the curve are just not going to be employable and they'll exacerbate our wealth and income inequality issues.

    On the smart people side which we've been discussing I'm less convinced of the damage to the nation ongoing, especially if the flows are limited...

    BTW, H1B is a BS program that should be tossed. they should absolutely not be tied to an employer. (and yes i agree that the "we absolutely couldn't find an American Sr. Java engineer is a lie. we like this foreign one better... is more true). I'd just make them immigrant visas to begin with.

    On the smart people side which we’ve been discussing I’m less convinced of the damage to the nation ongoing, especially if the flows are limited…

    The importation of those smart immigrants does immense harm to the countries those immigrants are coming from. Those countries are being stripped of their most useful citizens. It is a deeply immoral evil policy.

    • Replies: @vhrm

    It is a deeply immoral evil policy.
     
    Those are some strong words.
    How about moderately amoral look the other way unintended consequence?

    Also some people go back to help sometimes... both India and China have profited from returners bringing back know-how and experience (and sometimes unfortunately outright IP theft... which is less cool)
  206. @Muggles
    >>Lucifer’s Hammer is a great, detailed fictionalization of a possible SHTF scenario. I re-read it again a few months ago. The big lesson I took away from it was that coordination with a tight-knit, like-minded community is the essential factor for survival. A lone prepper with his stockpile of food and ammunition in the basement likely won’t last a month!<<

    Great comment.

    It reminds me of a great post Pandemic followup research topic. Namely, what about preppers and prepping? Hard to know now, but soon we can find some and ask. How many of them were better off than average folks? Many seem to already be in rural areas so aside from possible medical supplies they aren't much better off than neighbors. We should ask.

    Now urban preppers are either "at home" stockpilers or those who have obtained out of town hidey- holes or safe houses in rural areas. There are even a few (supposed) communities of very rich folks who have bought into high end "prepper communities" to ride out disasters (nuclear war, urban rioting, etc.) So, did any of them go there? Was it worth the time/cost? Or were their toilet paper stockpiles as bad as everyone elses? (I have always had a several months supply of TP on hand. Better than gold or ammo...) My hunch is, that preppers are usually fighting the last war.

    If you are going to be under house arrest, having a big house or property would be nice. So I think the preppers got that part right.

  207. @Anonymous
    What does the black line represent versus the red line?

    The price shown on the pump at the time.

    30¢ in 1970 was a lot more than $1.30 is today. Hence, the red line to adjust and clarify.

  208. @William Badwhite

    -Assimilation is pretty high in these groups
     
    When polled the Pajeets consistently show a high willingness to both restrict speech and to restrict guns. IOW they're not in favor of the first two amendments. The NYT crowed about how they helped tilt Virginia to the Dems, in large part supporting Governor Blackface's gun grabbing plans.

    The Raj didn’t want Indians to have guns, either.

  209. @dfordoom

    On the smart people side which we’ve been discussing I’m less convinced of the damage to the nation ongoing, especially if the flows are limited…
     
    The importation of those smart immigrants does immense harm to the countries those immigrants are coming from. Those countries are being stripped of their most useful citizens. It is a deeply immoral evil policy.

    It is a deeply immoral evil policy.

    Those are some strong words.
    How about moderately amoral look the other way unintended consequence?

    Also some people go back to help sometimes… both India and China have profited from returners bringing back know-how and experience (and sometimes unfortunately outright IP theft… which is less cool)

  210. Anonymous[194] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    This is worse than useless.
     
    Trump only has to fool the MAGA knuckle-draggers. And that's pretty easy.

    In hindsight this appears to just be Clinton’s “boob bait for the Bubbas”.

    I guess Trump just has to be a better choice than Biden for those who can be bothered to vote. :/

  211. Hail says: • Website
    @Hail
    Tucker Carlson slams Trump immigration-suspension plan:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWLA6si4Tak

    (Partial transcript of the opening monologue [from 5:15], broadcast 8pm EDT, April 21; transcripted by me)


    The new moratorium on immigration will last for sixty days, at which point it could be extended or it may not be extended.

    The ban will apply only to individuals seeking permanent permanent residency in this country. In other words, people who like the United States enough to stay permanently, and would like green cards to be able to do it legally. But the ban will not apply to those entering the United States on a "temporary basis," and that means this will not affect guest workers.

    That’s an awful lot of exceptions.

    Every year, our government hands out 80,000 non-agricultural guest worker visas, as well as 85,000 H1b visas, and hundreds of thousands of ag-worker visas.

    The purpose of this tidal wave of immigration has nothing to do with what advocates of immigration claim immigration is for. These visas do not improve American society in any way. We have no moral obligation to give them. There is no mention of guest workers on the Statue of Liberty.

    There’s only one point in handing out hundreds of thousands of these visas to foreign nationals, and it's to placate Big Business. Employers, always and everywhere, want to hire workers for less. In this case, for less than Americans make. And these visas let them do it.
     


    You may have just lost your job, but you'll be happy to know that Accenture can still import IT workers from Asia, who will work for less than you once made.

    So if the point of this executive order was to protect American jobs -- maybe there was another point, but if it was to protect American jobs -- it failed.

    So how did this happen, exactly? Well, we are not sure, though we do plan to find out...
     

    That was the main part of interest on the immigration-suspension plan. The rest is set-up and commentary and Tucker-style satirization of the Left.

    Just twenty-two hours after the tweet, it was already clear it was nothing like what a VDare plan would look like, another attempted bone-toss to the low-info wing of the old MAGA coalition.

    _____________

    It is a great monologue with Tucker back in his usual style. An earlier portion of the monologue has Tucker slamming "Pampered Americans who Oppose an Immigration Moratorium" [from 2:55].

    Transcript by me; this is worth quoting/reading/for reference:


    And yet some people in this country still oppose the idea [of an immigration pause].

    Who are these people, and why did they oppose it?

    Well, people who have been pampered and enriched by waves of low-wage immigration. They're against it. Politicians whose hopes for power rest on changing this country's population oppose it, too. They'd rather see Americans unemployed. In fact, anyone whose livelihood depends upon selling out the country is apt to be very threatened by this.

    Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is squarely in that category. ...[She is] appalled by the notion of cutting immigration during the worst unemployment crisis of our lifetimes. As she just explained on MSNBC, that’s immoral.

    >> [Video clip.] MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell: "How do you feel about the president’s messaging on immigration?" ALBRIGHT: "Well, I’m stunned. And I really do think that the Statue of Liberty is weeping. It is un-American." <<

    Got that? It’s "un-American" to act in the economic interests of Americans. That's Madeleine Albright's position.

    But at least we'll say this for her. She seemed coherent as she said it:

    Former presidential candidate Robert "Beto" O'Rourke, -- who is technically unemployed himself, though still very rich -- erupted in a primal scream when he heard the news. He tweeted this, quote: "Who the F-- do you think is working on the farms and feedlots, and the packing houses and processing plants, at a time we are struggling to feed ourselves? Who is in the kitchen, who is picking, preparing, serving the food we eat and cleaning up afterwards?"

    Honestly, those are all very good questions -- if you are an 18th century French marquis.

    As the country falls apart around him, "Beteaux's" first and main concern is preserving America’s sacred caste system. The native-born working on farms? In kitchens? In factories? 'Sacre bleu!,' schreeched "Beteaux." It’s unnatural, unthinkable, it is wrong. We must have a compliant underclass. We must!
     

    Madeleine Albright thinks protecting Americans is Un-American.

    Subtext: Immigrants are the Real Americans. Subtext: Native-born, multi-generational Americans are less-American and their interests don't matter. They are morally inferior to The Real Americans.

    As for the satirization of Beto ("Beteaux") there, no one does it better than Tucker.

    Tucker Carlson followed up on the Trump “Corona Immigration Ban” hoax.

    Tucker’s MO is that he knows he has a “direct, emergency line” to the president via his broadcasts, and, knowing Trump’s temperament, Tucker almost always errs on the side of blaming advisers and not blaming Trump in order to get the messages through. This was another case of the same (see bolded text below). Maybe it’s even true. But what does that say about Trump?

    In the second segment of the April 22 8pm EDT broadcast, Tucker said the following (transcribed by me):

    At least 22 million Americans have lost their jobs since our political leaders started instituting mass quarantines.

    On Monday night, the president announced he would help them with a temporary moratorium on immigration into the United States. That was his plan. It turned out it was sincere. We know that because this show has learned the president’s original draft executive order, the original one, would have suspended several guest worker programs, the ones that prevent qualified Americans from getting jobs.

    That would have been a big help for a hurting country. Here’s why: Every year, 180,000 new H-1b visas are awarded […]. These are not for people picking grapes or lettuce. These are for people making good wages in white collar jobs. Currently there are about 470,000 active beneficiaries of this program, almost half a million, all foreigners in good-paying jobs that Americans are qualified for, and could have. Suspending that program for a year would open up a massive number of jobs at a time when we desperately need them […]

    [It’s not] about who’s going pick the crops, it has nothing to do with picking the crops. It’s who’s going to work at Accenture.

    Unfortunately, something happened to that executive order on the way to being signed by the president. The final version, signed just hours ago, does not restrict any foreign workers at all. All of them are free to keep coming here and taking American jobs, including high-paying American jobs.

    So what exactly does the order do? Well,according to the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which provided us with an analysis of it, only fifty to eighty thousand current green card applications may be affected by this. That’s less than 10% of the 1 million people who get lawful permanent residency in this country every year, so for most of these this will amount to merely a temporary delay in the handling of their applications.

    How did this happen? It’s a grave disappointment. Who did this? How did we get from a sincere effort — the president announced it and he meant it, judging from his first order — an effort to help suffering American workers, to what we have now, which is a hollow, almost entirely symbolic gesture? We talked to a lot of people about this today in Washington. A lot. And here’s the story:

    Apparently, key White House aides were afraid of angering corporate leaders. For example, Apple CEO Tim Cook. Someone actually said that. “What will Tim Cook think?”

    Officials from the Department of Labor and the Council of Economic Advisors pushed for the vast guest worker exemption. They argued that the unemployment benefits in the coronavirus stimulus bill were so generous that American citizens would refuse to go back to work, because it was easier to get a government check, and so we have to bring in more foreigners.

    In other words, welfare for you; real jobs for foreign nationals.

  212. anon[924] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    so how easy is it to enforce national immigration laws? no one said it was or will be easy.
    Here is a case in minutia: Hawaii can’t even keep obvious non-citizens out of Hawaii even with an enforced lock-down and 14 day quarantine:

    https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/05/01/breaking-news/california-honeymooners-arrested-for-violating-hawaii-mandatory-passenger-quarantine/

    previous offenders who were caught got sent back to the mainland:
    An “Australian” and a “Las Vegas woman”,

    https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/04/22/breaking-news/hawaii-quarantine-violators-picked-up-in-manhunt-after-violating-rules-again/

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