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In 2019, Respectable Mainstream Discourse largely consists of Jewish guys accusing other Jewish guys of being Nazis. In response to this not very funny joke on Twitter:
The bedbugs are a metaphor. The bedbugs are Bret Stephens. https://t.co/k4qo6QzIBW
— dave karpf (@davekarpf) August 26, 2019
Today, we find on the New York Times opinion page:
World War II and the Ingredients of Slaughter
The spirit of certitude that dominated the politics of the 1930s is not so distant from us today.By Bret Stephens
Opinion ColumnistAug. 30, 2019
… The political mind-set that turned human beings into categories, classes and races also turned them into rodents, insects and garbage. “Anti-Semitism is exactly the same as delousing,” Heinrich Himmler would claim in 1943. “Getting rid of lice is not a matter of ideology. It is a matter of cleanliness.” Watching Warsaw’s Jewish ghetto burn that year, a Polish anti-Semite was overheard saying: “The bedbugs are on fire. The Germans are doing a great job.”
Today, the rhetoric of infestation is back. In the U.S., Trump uses it to describe Latin American migrants. In Europe, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, chairman of Poland’s ruling Law and Justice Party, warned in 2015 that migrants carried “all sorts of parasites and protozoa,” which, “while not dangerous in the organisms of these people, could be dangerous here.”
See, so when Stephens went nuts over Professor David Karpf’s lame joke about the NY Times building’s bedbug problem, he was merely attempting to keep Trump and Kaczynski from launching World War III.
When Poland invades Germany on September 1, 2019, you’ll thank Bret for his foresight.
Bedbug Bret.
--Sigmund Freud (paraphrased).
Watching Warsaw’s Jewish ghetto burn that year, a Polish anti-Semite was overheard saying: “The bedbugs are on fire. The Germans are doing a great job.”
Talk about fake news. Where’s the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don’t believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We’ve all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.
But what about this Nazi bastard, who actually kills bedbugs with poison gas.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zjwcg9c0ymIReplies: @Pericles
https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1167586059120758784
Re reactions to the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto, Czeslaw Milosz's poem Campo dei Fiori is good:
In Rome on the Campo dei Fiori
baskets of olives and lemons,
cobbles spattered with wine
and the wreckage of flowers.
Vendors cover the trestles
with rose-pink fish;
armfuls of dark grapes
heaped on peach-down.
On this same square
they burned Giordano Bruno.
Henchmen kindled the pyre
close-pressed by the mob.
Before the flames had died
the taverns were full again,
baskets of olives and lemons
again on the vendors' shoulders.
I thought of the Campo dei Fiori
in Warsaw by the sky-carousel
one clear spring evening
to the strains of a carnival tune.
The bright melody drowned
the salvos from the ghetto wall,
and couples were flying
high in the cloudless sky.
At times wind from the burning
would drift dark kites along
and riders on the carousel
caught petals in midair.
That same hot wind
blew open the skirts of the girls
and the crowds were laughing
on that beautiful Warsaw Sunday.
Someone will read as moral
that the people of Rome or Warsaw
haggle, laugh, make love
as they pass by the martyrs' pyres.
Someone else will read
of the passing of things human,
of the oblivion
born before the flames have died.
But that day I thought only
of the loneliness of the dying,
of how, when Giordano
climbed to his burning
he could not find
in any human tongue
words for mankind,
mankind who live on.
Already they were back at their wine
or peddled their white starfish,
baskets of olives and lemons
they had shouldered to the fair,
and he already distanced
as if centuries had passed
while they paused just a moment
for his flying in the fire.
Those dying here, the lonely
forgotten by the world,
our tongue becomes for them
the language of an ancient planet.
Until, when all is legend
and many years have passed,
on a new Campo dei Fiori
rage will kindle at a poet's word.
Warsaw, 1943Replies: @Pincher Martin, @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar, @Kronos
https://twitter.com/ajentleson/status/1167599978489008128?s=21
Bret Stephens should have thought about all of this before spending his career advocating for Jewish ethnonationalist interests and then against American-majority interests and culture.
There are always consequences to being politically intolerable to a majority, especially in the hypocritical 180 degree manner that most known activist Jews prefer.
Someone should review Israel’s cultural similarities to 1930’s Germany with this nasty blowhard.
You know, Anon, we often don't see ourselves as others do.
spending his career advocating for Jewish ethnonationalist interests
He's lived in four different countries. Among them, he spent the least amount of time (two years) in Israel. His wife is German (and has also lived in four different countries). He's loyal to a class of people, not to an actual people.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @AnotherDad
I’m sure it’s only a matter of time until the NYT ditches its “1619 Project” and switches over to a new “1933 Project.”
No matter what year it is, it’s always 1933 in the NYT building.
NOW you're telling me it's 1933 and there are Nazis everywhere? Could someone post Minitrue's talking points for the 2 Minutes Hate so those of us who aren't Inner Party members can shout the correct slogans?
Thanks 👍🏻
> a Polish anti-Semite was overheard saying: “The bedbugs are on fire. The Germans are doing a great job.”<
Who recorded this comment and was it made in Polish, German, Yiddish or English?
“The spirit of certitude that dominated the politics of the 1930s is not so distant from us today.”
For Neocons its always 1939 somewhere.
“See, so when Stephens went nuts over professor David Karpf’s lame joke about the NY Times building’s bedbug problem, he was merely attempting to keep Trump and Kaczynski from launching World War III.”
Spirochetes are using their hosts to make Polack jokes.
Does this mean the parasites are racist, or can they get away with that sort of thing?
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
You know what they call people who fact check stories like this?
If I’m understanding the logic correctly, here’s the argument.
Major Premise: If Jews and non-Jews are distinguishable in any noteworthy ways, we should kill all the Jews.
Minor Premise: We shouldn’t kill all the Jews.
Conclusion: Jews and non-Jews aren’t distinguishable in any noteworthy ways.
Setting aside the face that this is deriving an “is” from an “ought” (which is insane), I’m not willing to accept that major premise. I suppose that if Bret Stephens wants to try to convince me, I’d be intrigued to hears what he has to say, but somehow I suspect he’s not going to do that.
#bretbug
Once again, it looks like the Poles are the butt of this joke…
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
Agreed. 100% Fake Quote.
But what about this Nazi bastard, who actually kills bedbugs with poison gas.
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
With Epstein and Weinstein, the easy anti-Semitic epitaph will be that they are pedophiles and rapists not lice and bedbugs. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t go around indiscriminately calling people racists.
Why wrong have the Jews done?
Jewish people are far more intelligent, versatile, hard working and dedicated than most of the “White Nationalists”.
If your ethnic group , makes it to the top in almost every country they inhabit, then they certainly are the “The Chosen People’.
I agree a lot of them are avaricious to a worrying extent but vast majority of them think, act and live like an average White person.
Biggest damage to White America was carried out by the perfidious Republicans in the 80s and early 90s when Bill Clinton wanted to reduce immigration on the recommendations by a Black Congresswoman.
But, Republicans passed an amnesty, increased legal immigration by at least 40 percent and passed Diversity Visa Lottery bill.
Who is to be blamed when politicians like Warren,Gilibrand, Gavin Newsome and O’Rourke pass anti white comments?
Catholic and Lutheran churches are screwing White people nowadays.
Hitler did more damage to White people than anybody else and Stalin had disposed of the Bolshevik Jews by 1938. Ethnic Russians were fighting for their survival against German Imperialism. It came to be known as the Great Patriotic War. The existential battles of Stalingrad and Kursk are engraved in the minds if Russian nationalists. Russians did not want to be a colony of Imperial Germany.
Counterinsurgency
Israel.Replies: @Art Deco
Four countries in Europe just lost their measles-free status: Albania, Czechia, Greece and the U.K. But I”m sure that the recent flood in “migrants” had nothing to do with that deterioration of public health.
Could it be anti-vaxxers instead of furreners?Replies: @Paleo Liberal
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
Why can’t you believe it? Referring to Jews as vermin at the time was common. Do you also not believe that the 400,000 Jewish inhabitants of the ghetto were all murdered? And that some Poles were glad to see them go? Did this all not happen? It’s all just Jewish propaganda? Is this poster fake too?
Caption “Scourge of Humanity”
A cite would confirm the claim.
To make a fairly bad/small time joke and set the course for the SS Auschwitz Express it petty and vile. (Of course the Neocons have played that game for decades.) Maybe Bret is trying to drum up some business for his friends at the Holocaust Museum?
If the roles were reversed no one would bat an eye.
On the whole though, I agree. Much of the Polish population loathed the Jews. And why not? The Jews exploited the Polish peasantry--from whom most Poles are descended--unmercifully in the later Middle Ages and into the 19th century at least.
The Polish Szlachta (nobility) and the Jews worked out an entente whereby the Jews would do the dirty work of tax farming and noble estate management which involved endless exactions made on the peasants.
Of course the Poles didn't like the Jews. Why should they have?Replies: @Art Deco
Everyone knows Harvey Weinstein has been trying to lose weight. No need to call attention to it.
Who recorded this comment and was it made in Polish, German, Yiddish or English?Replies: @Jack D, @Not Raul
Here is a source:
https://books.google.com/books?id=zhN3mYSNd2cC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Gunnar+S.+Paulsson%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcofDWgqzkAhUih-AKHeTwDM8Q6AEwAHoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=bedbugs&f=false
I expect that he said it in Polish. The remarks were collected by Ringleblum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Ringelblum
We can’t cross examine him because the SS murdered him along with three million other Polish Jews.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1167586983436271616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1167586983436271616&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com%2F2019%2F08%2Fif-you-criticize-this-blog-youre-worse-than-pol-pot
When I click on your link, I get four snippets from the book, none of which contains the full quote.
A lot of the guys killed at Stalingrad, at Leningrad, at Kursk, in Normandy, in Holland, in the Hurtgen Forest, the Ardenne, etc. - all killed in the cause of defeating Nazi Germany.Replies: @Jack D
Whether the quote is true or not, I would be very surprised if David Karpf was aware of it when he made the quip about Bret Stephens.
Karpf appears to be a run-of-the-mill liberal. Stephens is a neocon. Karpf does not like Stephens' political views (or his well-known pomposity, I suspect).
That pretty much explains the whole event, I strongly suspect.
Personally, if the worst thing anyone had ever called me in my life was a "metaphorical (!) bedbug," I'd be rather pleased.
In fact, I have been accused (both in one thread!) of being a crypto-Jewish tool of the Zionists imperialists and an anti-Semite. From which I have concluded that maybe everyone should lay off psychoanalyzing other folks on their philo-Semitism or anti-Semitism, unless they explicitly declare it.
For the record I do admit to being philo-humanist. I have liked most human beings I have known of all ethnic groups (I met a charming group of Ethiopian students last year, but alas we only had a few minutes to chat). I have also known a handful of nasty people from all sorts of ethnic groups -- Caucasians, East Asians, etc.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto."Replies: @Anounder
Who recorded this comment and was it made in Polish, German, Yiddish or English?Replies: @Jack D, @Not Raul
I was about to post the same bedbug Bret quote.
Bret and his neocon ilk make a lot of stuff up. Evidently we’re supposed to trust but not verify, or we’re Hitler or something.
Until I see verification, I won’t accept the veracity of any of bedbug Bret’s slavophobic slobbergasms.
Brett Stephens gets paid (presumably) millions of dollars to air his 3rd grade level grievances to the whole world.
He posted his own google search https://mobile.twitter.com/AJentleson/status/1167599978489008128
This worm literally tweeted “Come say that to my face” lmao
Despite the obvious fact that Bret Stephens would never have the balls to throw a first punch
Bretbug
Is this why Donald Trump’s properties have bedbugs? Because he’s so certain? And because he believes that national borders are important, just like Adolf Hitler? Maye it’s only safe for Government experts to be certain about anything …
Some call for popcorn, some call for governor, I call for whiskey. Last call.
Jack, it is my sincere hope that you are rewarded in your next life for being a persistent voice of decency in these comments. I’m thinking you might land a good gig as a nice old lady’s house cat, or maybe a shepherd’s dog in New Zealand.
OK. This is sourcing. Lends credibility to the assertions, but a lot of what passes through the Times is just so much unverifiable bullshit.
Um… nice try. He said that he thinks the super-convenient quote that specifically uses the word “bedbugs” is made up.
Nice “myth making” that collection of sources. The Narrative “uber alles”.
More likely someone said, “The racists are on fire. We will replace them and erase their history. Hey, let’s tear down that statue!”
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
Must read:
But what about this Nazi bastard, who actually kills bedbugs with poison gas.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zjwcg9c0ymIReplies: @Pericles
And let’s not forget that this time it was apparently a bastard Jew academic, to reuse the epithets, who wrote the fateful words that sent C. lectularius stephens scurrying.
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
Mr. D, the problem is not the allegation…there was plenty of lunacy in the air then…it is the lack of corroboration.
A cite would confirm the claim.
Lol, nice try Bret:
https://mobile.twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1167586983436271616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1167586983436271616&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com%2F2019%2F08%2Fif-you-criticize-this-blog-youre-worse-than-pol-pot
1) You can’t parody these people. They are seriously complaining about a “spirit of certitude” without a single glance at their own psychology, and that of the entire post-1992 American elite.
2) Uh huh. Kaczynski is echoing a man who killed 2-3 million of his people.
You know, it’s funny, until today, I couldn’t have cared less about Bret Stephens. But from now on, I’m just going to refer to him as The Stupid BedBug for making the stupidest WWII comparison… of this week. I’m sure someone else will claim the title next week.
The complete reorganization of European international law (which is still the basic but eroded foundation of international law today) was based on reason.
Were (the surviving) people actually any more reasonable than they are today? No. They were terrified - terrified of poverty and death. They used reason as a lifeboat, as a common ground that everybody could understand, and on this common ground intended to reach agreements that would stop the high intensity fighting that (they observed) was destroying European civilization. The thinking involved was described by Hobbes (_Leviathan_, 1651, 3 years after the Treaty of Westphalia).
The idea is fairly simple: if you and a neighbor have a disagreement about over, say, a spite fence, or whose kid broke a window, you two can carry it on for decades. Or, if you have a squad of Hells Angels outside, promising to work you over with baseball bats unless you come to an agreement within the hour, the two of you will use reason to decide that an agreement is better than hospitalization for trauma and will reach an agreement. _That_ is the kind of reason the Treaty of Westphalia set up, and the kind of reason that Hobbes advocated in _The Leviathan_.
And it worked. Europe had Westphalian type absolute governments that fought limited wars with professional soldiers under a set of rules. Destruction was large, but not large enough to destroy civilization / upset the Hells Angels with the baseball bats standing by just outside of reality.
This system lasted until c.a. AD 1800, the French Revolution, when Napoleon B. re-introduced the large armies of the 30 Years War, armies so big that they lived a la maraude, by looting the countryside [1]. From there, things more or less deteriorated until reason utterly failed in the runnup to WW I. [2]
OK, so what?
Well, the rule of reason never did come back, not even after WW II and the Cold War deployment of enough firepower to knock human civilization (such as it is) back to AD 1800. The Cold War was ended by the collapse of the USSR because the USSR never did really recover from WW II [3].
Illustration: You can see that in the comments section of every article here, and in quite a few of the articles. The authors use insulting language that amounts to an invitation to a fight (although a physical fight fight is clearly impossible when the person posting can do nothing but type). They are trying to demonstrate escalation dominance -- "I'm willing to fight (in fact I'm a bit demented), you aren't, you lose and I win". _This is tolerated, even expected, by the rest of the posters_. The moderators and most of the partcipants here are to be greatly praised for their ability to keep this sort of thing at its present relatively low level.
In the real world of work and politics, language that amounts to threats is routine and, where possible, is backed up by real threats -- paramilitary Antifa, "twitter mobs" that end people's careers, Federal persecution of "enemies", most recently an intel op against a Presidential candidate and later a sitting President, one supported by a major political party, and on and on; the list is long enough.
The metaphorical Hells Angels are gone. _Nobody_ is terrified enough of warfare to avoid it. The political parties in the US seem to think that it is profitable. _Nobody_ is afraid of civil unrest. The political parties seem to regard it as a harmless political tactic, and actually regard it as a method of retaining office ("Where are my constituents to go? Will they vote for a candidate who maintains a system they can't live in?"). Paul Craig Roberts has a reasonably good strategy to re-industrialize the US [4] that nobody will use because nobody is afraid of the consequences of letting the US economy rot (except maybe Trump. Maybe; he appears to think it's a "nice to have" rather than a "right up there with breathing").
And when that happens, reason is powerless [5] and we are back to the start of the 30 year's war.
So: when your posts are met with insults and mad raving, at least you now know what is going on. You've just seen an attempted power play.
Counterinsurgency
1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Maraude
2] WW I being a war that nobody wanted, but nobody could stop because the rules limiting national armies to professionals with professional troops had been shattered (along with the appeal to reason that was their ultimate guarantor) by by Napoleon B.
3] Viktor Suvorov.
_The Chief Culprit_
Lenin, then Stalin, outfitted the USSR with an industry useful only for winning WW II. After the crippling losses of Soviet manpower during WW II, the remaining Russians proved unable to convert to civil production, despite strenuous effort by Khrushchev to do exactly that. The failure eventually de-legitimized Soviet society. See also Spufford, _Red Plenty_
4] Paul Craig Roberts.
"Can The American Economy Be Resurrected?".
Fri, 08/30/2019 - 19:10
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/can-american-economy-be-resurrected
This plan would benefit the hinterland / flyover country, so the urban areas and Yankeedom will veto it. They aren't in the least afraid of strife with their hinterlands; in fact, it appears to be a major source of entertainment for them.
4] http://www.ditext.com/carroll/tortoise.html
Robert Carrol. A tortoise who isn't in the least afraid of Achilles temper can lead Achilles about by the nose, because the tortoise is correct: logical argument can't compel belief, or even an end to logical argument.Replies: @sayless, @Alden
Really starting to think progressives use accusations of racism in order to stifle opponents.
Bedbug Streisand
I think it’s the point of weaponizing general language and switching it to represent something ghastly. In general, bed bugs are no fun. They have sex and poop on all your personal belongings. Also, bed bugs are expensive/time consuming to remove.
To make a fairly bad/small time joke and set the course for the SS Auschwitz Express it petty and vile. (Of course the Neocons have played that game for decades.) Maybe Bret is trying to drum up some business for his friends at the Holocaust Museum?
If the roles were reversed no one would bat an eye.
Nice of you to bring up the problem of accusations, since you will recognize that even when the alleged act is common or highly believable, it would still be more than an ethical lapse to slip in something to help folks make up their mind.
Eventually we are going to have to stop speaking in English because every word is going to be reserved as racist.
It’s an unforgivably dumb choice of illustration. He got to it walking past piles of unambiguous, unquestioned, citable state propaganda, like the juxtaposition editing of Jews and rats in films by Goebbels. Also there is a long and convenient history of claimed overheard mutterings stretching from the Forward’s Bintel Brief to modern ADL campfire stories. Nice things about an overheard muttering: no one will ever know if you davidkellied it up, and nobody’s ever going to discover it was actually muttered by an Israeli twentysomething or a disgruntled black guy.
“Bretbug” is the accepted terminology.
He was talking about Stephens’ bedbug quote, not the general anti-Semitic mutterings which were common before WW2 even among many Europeans who were not Nazis. He wasn’t questioning the Holocaust.
And, yes, Stephens’ bedbug quote sounds ginned-up for this special moment in Bret’s life.
This from the guy who compared Senator Ted Cruz to a “serpent covered in vasoline.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/408262-conservative-ny-times-columnist-calls-ted-cruz-a-serpent-covered-in-vaseline
Isn’t karpf Jewish too?
OT:
Joni Mitchell sadly appears to be in bad shape.
http://www.iheartradio.ca/news/joni-mitchell-shows-up-at-blondie-concert-1.9677415
http://www.iheartradio.ca/image/policy:1.9677426:1565262583/joni.jpg?f=default&$p$f=73fa7a4
If things do go bad at least Bret has a safe haven nation waiting for him. That’s more than most of us can say.
? But if things do 'go bad', Israel will be one of the least safe places to be. It wouldn't last more than a decade without a US willing and able to feed and protect it.
This is bit like saying, 'hah hah! If global warming gets really bad I've got my safe house in the Maldives!'
We’re looking for a source for the quote, “The bedbugs are on fire. The Germans are doing a great job.”
When I click on your link, I get four snippets from the book, none of which contains the full quote.
If some Jews could become kapos, then yes I believe some Poles could have said what he reported. But I don’t think either group should be tarred for what a few outliers did.
‘If things do go bad at least Bret has a safe haven nation waiting for him. That’s more than most of us can say.’
? But if things do ‘go bad’, Israel will be one of the least safe places to be. It wouldn’t last more than a decade without a US willing and able to feed and protect it.
This is bit like saying, ‘hah hah! If global warming gets really bad I’ve got my safe house in the Maldives!’
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
I think it was Ed West who said that most Americans know so little history that they analogize everything to World War II. Bret Stephen is an example of that.
Re reactions to the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto, Czeslaw Milosz’s poem Campo dei Fiori is good:
In Rome on the Campo dei Fiori
baskets of olives and lemons,
cobbles spattered with wine
and the wreckage of flowers.
Vendors cover the trestles
with rose-pink fish;
armfuls of dark grapes
heaped on peach-down.
On this same square
they burned Giordano Bruno.
Henchmen kindled the pyre
close-pressed by the mob.
Before the flames had died
the taverns were full again,
baskets of olives and lemons
again on the vendors’ shoulders.
I thought of the Campo dei Fiori
in Warsaw by the sky-carousel
one clear spring evening
to the strains of a carnival tune.
The bright melody drowned
the salvos from the ghetto wall,
and couples were flying
high in the cloudless sky.
At times wind from the burning
would drift dark kites along
and riders on the carousel
caught petals in midair.
That same hot wind
blew open the skirts of the girls
and the crowds were laughing
on that beautiful Warsaw Sunday.
Someone will read as moral
that the people of Rome or Warsaw
haggle, laugh, make love
as they pass by the martyrs’ pyres.
Someone else will read
of the passing of things human,
of the oblivion
born before the flames have died.
But that day I thought only
of the loneliness of the dying,
of how, when Giordano
climbed to his burning
he could not find
in any human tongue
words for mankind,
mankind who live on.
Already they were back at their wine
or peddled their white starfish,
baskets of olives and lemons
they had shouldered to the fair,
and he already distanced
as if centuries had passed
while they paused just a moment
for his flying in the fire.
Those dying here, the lonely
forgotten by the world,
our tongue becomes for them
the language of an ancient planet.
Until, when all is legend
and many years have passed,
on a new Campo dei Fiori
rage will kindle at a poet’s word.
Warsaw, 1943
Take a look at page 155: “Ringleblum is repeating hearsay.”
What isn’t hearsay is that Poland produced more Righteous Among Nations (khasidei umót ha’olám) than any other country. This is in spite of the fact that the Polish themselves were facing genocide.
It’s a shame that bedbug Bret is so ungrateful.
Re reactions to the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto, Czeslaw Milosz's poem Campo dei Fiori is good:
In Rome on the Campo dei Fiori
baskets of olives and lemons,
cobbles spattered with wine
and the wreckage of flowers.
Vendors cover the trestles
with rose-pink fish;
armfuls of dark grapes
heaped on peach-down.
On this same square
they burned Giordano Bruno.
Henchmen kindled the pyre
close-pressed by the mob.
Before the flames had died
the taverns were full again,
baskets of olives and lemons
again on the vendors' shoulders.
I thought of the Campo dei Fiori
in Warsaw by the sky-carousel
one clear spring evening
to the strains of a carnival tune.
The bright melody drowned
the salvos from the ghetto wall,
and couples were flying
high in the cloudless sky.
At times wind from the burning
would drift dark kites along
and riders on the carousel
caught petals in midair.
That same hot wind
blew open the skirts of the girls
and the crowds were laughing
on that beautiful Warsaw Sunday.
Someone will read as moral
that the people of Rome or Warsaw
haggle, laugh, make love
as they pass by the martyrs' pyres.
Someone else will read
of the passing of things human,
of the oblivion
born before the flames have died.
But that day I thought only
of the loneliness of the dying,
of how, when Giordano
climbed to his burning
he could not find
in any human tongue
words for mankind,
mankind who live on.
Already they were back at their wine
or peddled their white starfish,
baskets of olives and lemons
they had shouldered to the fair,
and he already distanced
as if centuries had passed
while they paused just a moment
for his flying in the fire.
Those dying here, the lonely
forgotten by the world,
our tongue becomes for them
the language of an ancient planet.
Until, when all is legend
and many years have passed,
on a new Campo dei Fiori
rage will kindle at a poet's word.
Warsaw, 1943Replies: @Pincher Martin, @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar, @Kronos
Or Vietnam.
Does Mr. Stephens suffer Survivor’s Descendants PTSD whenever he sees an exterminator ad on TV?
Re reactions to the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto, Czeslaw Milosz's poem Campo dei Fiori is good:
In Rome on the Campo dei Fiori
baskets of olives and lemons,
cobbles spattered with wine
and the wreckage of flowers.
Vendors cover the trestles
with rose-pink fish;
armfuls of dark grapes
heaped on peach-down.
On this same square
they burned Giordano Bruno.
Henchmen kindled the pyre
close-pressed by the mob.
Before the flames had died
the taverns were full again,
baskets of olives and lemons
again on the vendors' shoulders.
I thought of the Campo dei Fiori
in Warsaw by the sky-carousel
one clear spring evening
to the strains of a carnival tune.
The bright melody drowned
the salvos from the ghetto wall,
and couples were flying
high in the cloudless sky.
At times wind from the burning
would drift dark kites along
and riders on the carousel
caught petals in midair.
That same hot wind
blew open the skirts of the girls
and the crowds were laughing
on that beautiful Warsaw Sunday.
Someone will read as moral
that the people of Rome or Warsaw
haggle, laugh, make love
as they pass by the martyrs' pyres.
Someone else will read
of the passing of things human,
of the oblivion
born before the flames have died.
But that day I thought only
of the loneliness of the dying,
of how, when Giordano
climbed to his burning
he could not find
in any human tongue
words for mankind,
mankind who live on.
Already they were back at their wine
or peddled their white starfish,
baskets of olives and lemons
they had shouldered to the fair,
and he already distanced
as if centuries had passed
while they paused just a moment
for his flying in the fire.
Those dying here, the lonely
forgotten by the world,
our tongue becomes for them
the language of an ancient planet.
Until, when all is legend
and many years have passed,
on a new Campo dei Fiori
rage will kindle at a poet's word.
Warsaw, 1943Replies: @Pincher Martin, @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar, @Kronos
An awful lot of the well-platformed people who insist on making everything about WWII know plenty of history. Their obsession would be forgivable if they were actually talking about WWII and not the ancient banks of the river Jordan.
There’s nothing one could say about Bret Stephens that would be worse than the truth.
From the excellent blog Idle Words (do see also the fantastic post just before this, which beautifully describes typical protest activity in cyberpunk Hong Kong: Flags! Signalling specific tools across a snaking crowd by hand gestures! Snack kiosks open at all times! An infinitely creative and perpetually tinkering hivemind, constantly assembling or disassembling obstacles!) —
https://idlewords.com/2019/08/a_week_with_no_tear_gas.htm
Touché .
Re reactions to the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto, Czeslaw Milosz's poem Campo dei Fiori is good:
In Rome on the Campo dei Fiori
baskets of olives and lemons,
cobbles spattered with wine
and the wreckage of flowers.
Vendors cover the trestles
with rose-pink fish;
armfuls of dark grapes
heaped on peach-down.
On this same square
they burned Giordano Bruno.
Henchmen kindled the pyre
close-pressed by the mob.
Before the flames had died
the taverns were full again,
baskets of olives and lemons
again on the vendors' shoulders.
I thought of the Campo dei Fiori
in Warsaw by the sky-carousel
one clear spring evening
to the strains of a carnival tune.
The bright melody drowned
the salvos from the ghetto wall,
and couples were flying
high in the cloudless sky.
At times wind from the burning
would drift dark kites along
and riders on the carousel
caught petals in midair.
That same hot wind
blew open the skirts of the girls
and the crowds were laughing
on that beautiful Warsaw Sunday.
Someone will read as moral
that the people of Rome or Warsaw
haggle, laugh, make love
as they pass by the martyrs' pyres.
Someone else will read
of the passing of things human,
of the oblivion
born before the flames have died.
But that day I thought only
of the loneliness of the dying,
of how, when Giordano
climbed to his burning
he could not find
in any human tongue
words for mankind,
mankind who live on.
Already they were back at their wine
or peddled their white starfish,
baskets of olives and lemons
they had shouldered to the fair,
and he already distanced
as if centuries had passed
while they paused just a moment
for his flying in the fire.
Those dying here, the lonely
forgotten by the world,
our tongue becomes for them
the language of an ancient planet.
Until, when all is legend
and many years have passed,
on a new Campo dei Fiori
rage will kindle at a poet's word.
Warsaw, 1943Replies: @Pincher Martin, @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar, @Kronos
We have to. We can’t be allowed to imagine that the Lindberghs were right.
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
Apparently, the quote is accurate, but get this – “bedbugs” referred to literal bedbugs, not Jews:
Re reactions to the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto, Czeslaw Milosz's poem Campo dei Fiori is good:
In Rome on the Campo dei Fiori
baskets of olives and lemons,
cobbles spattered with wine
and the wreckage of flowers.
Vendors cover the trestles
with rose-pink fish;
armfuls of dark grapes
heaped on peach-down.
On this same square
they burned Giordano Bruno.
Henchmen kindled the pyre
close-pressed by the mob.
Before the flames had died
the taverns were full again,
baskets of olives and lemons
again on the vendors' shoulders.
I thought of the Campo dei Fiori
in Warsaw by the sky-carousel
one clear spring evening
to the strains of a carnival tune.
The bright melody drowned
the salvos from the ghetto wall,
and couples were flying
high in the cloudless sky.
At times wind from the burning
would drift dark kites along
and riders on the carousel
caught petals in midair.
That same hot wind
blew open the skirts of the girls
and the crowds were laughing
on that beautiful Warsaw Sunday.
Someone will read as moral
that the people of Rome or Warsaw
haggle, laugh, make love
as they pass by the martyrs' pyres.
Someone else will read
of the passing of things human,
of the oblivion
born before the flames have died.
But that day I thought only
of the loneliness of the dying,
of how, when Giordano
climbed to his burning
he could not find
in any human tongue
words for mankind,
mankind who live on.
Already they were back at their wine
or peddled their white starfish,
baskets of olives and lemons
they had shouldered to the fair,
and he already distanced
as if centuries had passed
while they paused just a moment
for his flying in the fire.
Those dying here, the lonely
forgotten by the world,
our tongue becomes for them
the language of an ancient planet.
Until, when all is legend
and many years have passed,
on a new Campo dei Fiori
rage will kindle at a poet's word.
Warsaw, 1943Replies: @Pincher Martin, @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar, @Kronos
They say War is God’s way of teaching Americans’ Geography.
As far as I can tell, it's not working.
Bret Stephens – this is the guy who wrote in an op-ed that American citizens ought to be deported because they are, in effect, garbage.
F**k Bret Stephens.
Good God, that’s a relief. So Jack can dial back the angina a bit tonight?
One of the many privileges involved in Owning the Narrative is that you never have to source your own quotes.
You know who else were anti-semites?
A lot of the guys killed at Stalingrad, at Leningrad, at Kursk, in Normandy, in Holland, in the Hurtgen Forest, the Ardenne, etc. – all killed in the cause of defeating Nazi Germany.
So it sounds like the meaning of the remark is still antisemitic, but more of a joke: he sees the fire in the ghetto as positive, because it will get rid of the bed bug infestation; the fate of the Jews is secondary.
Well, that and the fact that our MSM is full-tilt 24/7/365 lecturing everyone that Whoever We Don’t Like is Literally Hitler.
And nothing bad happened before Hitler, especially nothing that might account for his rise to power, except perhaps a few pogroms in Czarist Russia.
We are the new Jews
Talk about fake news. Where's the sourcing on this anecdote? Who overheard it. Who made the damning comment? I don't believe for a second that this is true, that it was uttered or overheard. Fake news. We've all been fed fake news for so long that we accept it as given.Replies: @J.Ross, @Hypnotoad666, @MEH 0910, @Jack D, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @Dave Pinsen, @guest
The quote is sourced from a post on r/thatHappened, which at the time was a series of bulletin boards strewn across Europe, kept up-to-date by telegraph wire. Mr. Stephens chose to omit the context, in which “everyone clapped” after the Polack was finished. There may have been a sassy black girl involved, as well.
A much better example of “the political mind-set that turned human beings into categories, classes and races also turned them into rodents, insects and garbage.” would be Judeo-feminist Susan Rosenblatt Sontag’s declaration that the entire white race is a cancer upon human history. The great mystery is whether she was including Jewish people as a subset of the cancerous white whole?
It reeks more of 'we were victims and so it is incumbent upon us to make sure nothing bad happens to anyone else'. The 'we are good and not really white' seems to come out of the era of Twitter as the social-justice movement gets taken over by nonwhites and Jewish lefties are like 'but we don't have any privilege!'
Jack,
Whether the quote is true or not, I would be very surprised if David Karpf was aware of it when he made the quip about Bret Stephens.
Karpf appears to be a run-of-the-mill liberal. Stephens is a neocon. Karpf does not like Stephens’ political views (or his well-known pomposity, I suspect).
That pretty much explains the whole event, I strongly suspect.
Personally, if the worst thing anyone had ever called me in my life was a “metaphorical (!) bedbug,” I’d be rather pleased.
In fact, I have been accused (both in one thread!) of being a crypto-Jewish tool of the Zionists imperialists and an anti-Semite. From which I have concluded that maybe everyone should lay off psychoanalyzing other folks on their philo-Semitism or anti-Semitism, unless they explicitly declare it.
For the record I do admit to being philo-humanist. I have liked most human beings I have known of all ethnic groups (I met a charming group of Ethiopian students last year, but alas we only had a few minutes to chat). I have also known a handful of nasty people from all sorts of ethnic groups — Caucasians, East Asians, etc.
“Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.”
I must say, this whole notion that only Jews were ever compared to rats, lice, cancer, etc. is exceedingly strange. It is a Human Universal to employ taboos against enemies. Filthy sex acts, dirtiness in general, beastliness, disease, vermin, and so on. Nazis didn’t invent it.
Heck, I remember having the meanness of U.S. propaganda against the Japs drilled into my head. Portraying them as spiders and whatnot. Fairly certain that amongst all the nasty things Jews have said about Nazis they no doubt called them a plague or whatever at some point.
Himmler specifically is brought up, I assume, because Cyclone B way very specifically a delousing agent, and the gas chambers were part of the fumigation process. I don’t want to get too nitpicky (pun intended), but bedbugs are not technically lousy.
Worry when people start comparing you to inanimate objects, as in dumb as a rock. Bret Stephens would no doubt find this very worrisome as rocks were often thrown through Jewish shopkeepers' windows by those evil... N-n-nazis!
This is probably OT, but whatevs….
If you think “bedbug” is insulting, just try saying “puto” in certain precincts of Los Angeles.
Bret may not be the dumbest man alive, but he’s the dumbest person alive currently writing for NYT — and I have yet to see Thomas Friedman’s obituary.
More likely she was viewing them as the surgeon.
I’m pretty sure that apocryphal Pole would have used lice or louse or even cockroach before he would have used bedbug; Stephens has fabricated a not so elegant oslí můstek to connect Karpf to Heinrich Himmler.
No matter what year it is, it's always 1933 in the NYT building.Replies: @The Alarmist, @mmack
Only problem with that is that 1933 marks the year FDR recognised the USSR and opened the floodgates to communist domination of key parts of the US government and the US economy. Then again, these events were NY Times blessed (see Walter Duranty), but then again they by and large ignored the Holocaust, so who knows which way the NYT will swing. Wait, not true: In the leftist pecking order, Communism comes before Judaism.
Historically, most professional journalists have been, with a few noble exceptions, nothing more than cockroaches. So, Stephens is in a majority.
Trump read the text from that song “The Snake” at least a hundred times on the campaign trail. To be honest I got a little sick of it. Anyway, song sung by a black man, who knows who the “snakes” were supposed to be… but the point is, some people act like animals (he’s a real DOG of a husband, she’s such a CATTY woman, he’s a poon-HOUND) and they get the label.
Worry when people start comparing you to inanimate objects, as in dumb as a rock. Bret Stephens would no doubt find this very worrisome as rocks were often thrown through Jewish shopkeepers’ windows by those evil… N-n-nazis!
I wouldn’t mind the ungrateful lefties going after Never Trumper Bret if they would admit he was one of them. What bedbugs me is that they call him a Trump supporter.
No matter what year it is, it's always 1933 in the NYT building.Replies: @The Alarmist, @mmack
Wait, I thought on the Progressive Left it’s always 1965 and they’re ready to take the Freedom Bus down South to fight racism and grant Civil Rights. After that they’ll protest The War to Stick It To The Man!
NOW you’re telling me it’s 1933 and there are Nazis everywhere? Could someone post Minitrue’s talking points for the 2 Minutes Hate so those of us who aren’t Inner Party members can shout the correct slogans?
Thanks 👍🏻
One does not exclude the other. Poland was a very divided nation. Some hated the Jews and collaborated with the Nazis, others were righteous as you say. Most probably tried to stay out of it either way and looked the other way as their Jewish neighbors were taken away, knowing that the consequences for helping Jews were severe. When Ringleblum (the man who collected the bedbug remark) was captured by the Nazis on the Aryan side, not only was he murdered by the Nazis but so were the Poles in whose home he was hiding.
https://polska.pl/arts/literature/zofia-kossak-szczucka-anti-semite-who-saved-jews/Replies: @Not Raul
https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1167586059120758784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Even Guardian, Huffington Post --heck, even Julia Ioffe-- aren't buying this line from Bret.
FTFY
https://polska.pl/arts/literature/zofia-kossak-szczucka-anti-semite-who-saved-jews/
Tonini is a slanderer. It’s a shame that she gets to write history.
Also, have you not read this yet?
Even Guardian, Huffington Post –heck, even Julia Ioffe– aren’t buying this line from Bret.
A lot of the guys killed at Stalingrad, at Leningrad, at Kursk, in Normandy, in Holland, in the Hurtgen Forest, the Ardenne, etc. - all killed in the cause of defeating Nazi Germany.Replies: @Jack D
You don’t have to go that far. Much of the Polish nationalist right hated BOTH the Jews and the Germans as what they considered foreign presences in their country.
What Steve forgets is that there is something that unites the Polish
and the Jews – namely the dislike and distrust of Germany. After all,
Poland that for centuries had the world’s highest percentage of the Jewish
people (typically 9-10%), lost roughly 3 million Christians and 3 million
Jews during World War II. In the space of 40 years the Germans committed
3 genocides, (1) In southwest Africa in the early 20th century; (2) In Poland
during WW II – genocide of the Christian population; (3) In Poland during
WW II – genocide of the Jewish population. Mainly now the disagreements
between Poland and worldwide Jewry are about who suffered more at the
hands of the Germans.
In addition to losing one-third of its territory, Germany has been defeated
and humiliated so many times that as hapless as the Germans are, hopefully
they lost taste for resorting to extreme violence. There are only 120 million
Germanics in Europe (incl. 20 million Scandinavians) while there are 240 million
Slavs. The Germanics, in their eternal struggle against the Slavs, never had
a chance. Hopefully, they learned this lesson well. Otherwise they will be
humiliated again. Ultimately it is Europe that is the loser as a result of the
constant quarrels among its inhabitants.
visited Poland in 2018, 18.4% increase over 2017. I’m sure
similar numbers of Jewish tourists from the U.S. and other
countries visited Poland during the same time period. Visiting
Warsaw one gets the impression that practically overnight Warsaw has
become a multicultural city. In addition to the Jews, there are now
2-3 million Ukrainians working and studying in Poland (by the way,
the Ukrainian president Zelenski who is visiting Warsaw this weekend
in connection with the WW II anniversary looked so tiny next to the
Polish president Duda I thought the photo was photoshopped). One
also sees South Asians delivering food on bicycles. The Israeli
tourists interviewed for the article said they mainly come to Poland
to enjoy the food and do some shopping.
The same Haaretz article, however, also reported complaints from hotel managers
to the effect that the Israeli tourists are arrogant, quarrelsome, leave
garbage in the rooms, and have no respect for others’ property.
I was sharing an elevator at a Warsaw hotel with an Orthodox Jewish
family a couple of years ago. The wife stared at me with what an objective
observer could only interpret as hate. I kept the elevator door open as
the family, incl. their brood, was filing out. Did I get a thank you or
at least a smile? Of course, not.
On the other hand, one Israeli tourist said, “Forget the Holocaust! I come to
Poland to have fun.” Similarly, large numbers of Polish tourists now
visit Israel. Many in the West don’t realize that there are people in
Poland who basically regard Israel as a Polish colony in the Middle East.
After all, Ben-Gurion and Mileikowski (Netanyahu’s father) both grew up
in Warsaw. There were so many people from Poland in the early days of
Israel that Polish was an official language at the Knesset. The Palestinians
don’t say to the Jews “Go back to Russia (or Germany)!” They usually say
“Go back to Poland!” Several years ago when there were many knife attacks
in Israel, a Polish paramilitary group got organized to go to Israel, and, a la
Curtis Sliwa, to defend the Jews from Muslim attacks. That’s another thing
that the Polish and the Jews have in common - neither like the Muslims
very much. Remember Jan Sobieski and September 11, 1683.Replies: @Bies Podkrakowski
Yeah, there’s a long history of Nazis comparing Jews to vermin. That much is true.
What gets me is Bret thinking he can write opinion columns in the New York Times and not have people call him nasty things from time to time, and then trying to call the principal…sorry, the provost to get someone who used a nasty word at him over an op-ed in one of the highest-circulation papers in the world.
And the guy who did it to him is Jewish, so there’s not even the antisemitic angle.
Eh, maybe he’ll come back as Stephen Miller’s son and lead a right-wing Jewish revolt.
In that era, probably.
It reeks more of ‘we were victims and so it is incumbent upon us to make sure nothing bad happens to anyone else’. The ‘we are good and not really white’ seems to come out of the era of Twitter as the social-justice movement gets taken over by nonwhites and Jewish lefties are like ‘but we don’t have any privilege!’
Jewish people are far more intelligent, versatile, hard working and dedicated than most of the "White Nationalists".If your ethnic group , makes it to the top in almost every country they inhabit, then they certainly are the "The Chosen People'.
I agree a lot of them are avaricious to a worrying extent but vast majority of them think, act and live like an average White person.Biggest damage to White America was carried out by the perfidious Republicans in the 80s and early 90s when Bill Clinton wanted to reduce immigration on the recommendations by a Black Congresswoman.
But, Republicans passed an amnesty, increased legal immigration by at least 40 percent and passed Diversity Visa Lottery bill.
Who is to be blamed when politicians like Warren,Gilibrand, Gavin Newsome and O'Rourke pass anti white comments?
Catholic and Lutheran churches are screwing White people nowadays.
Hitler did more damage to White people than anybody else and Stalin had disposed of the Bolshevik Jews by 1938. Ethnic Russians were fighting for their survival against German Imperialism. It came to be known as the Great Patriotic War. The existential battles of Stalingrad and Kursk are engraved in the minds if Russian nationalists. Russians did not want to be a colony of Imperial Germany.Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @More R1b, Less H1B, @Colin Wright
You might be very interested in Viktor Suvorov’s _Chief Culprit_, Naval Institute Press. See Amazon.
Counterinsurgency
War is God’s way of teaching Americans’ Geography.
As far as I can tell, it’s not working.
F**k Bret Stephens.Replies: @Harry Baldwin
Does anyone actually like Bret Stephens outside of the people who sign his paychecks? Does he have a dedicated audience? The progressives hate him because they think he’s a right-winger and the right-wingers hate him because they know he’s not. So who does that leave? Neocons, I guess, but do they exist outside of a few propped-up publications and Washington think tanks?
Bret sure sounds a bit…uh…”overheated?”
But what is most amazing is the number of people who will read this stuff and shake their heads up and down in recognition.
Jewish people are far more intelligent, versatile, hard working and dedicated than most of the "White Nationalists".If your ethnic group , makes it to the top in almost every country they inhabit, then they certainly are the "The Chosen People'.
I agree a lot of them are avaricious to a worrying extent but vast majority of them think, act and live like an average White person.Biggest damage to White America was carried out by the perfidious Republicans in the 80s and early 90s when Bill Clinton wanted to reduce immigration on the recommendations by a Black Congresswoman.
But, Republicans passed an amnesty, increased legal immigration by at least 40 percent and passed Diversity Visa Lottery bill.
Who is to be blamed when politicians like Warren,Gilibrand, Gavin Newsome and O'Rourke pass anti white comments?
Catholic and Lutheran churches are screwing White people nowadays.
Hitler did more damage to White people than anybody else and Stalin had disposed of the Bolshevik Jews by 1938. Ethnic Russians were fighting for their survival against German Imperialism. It came to be known as the Great Patriotic War. The existential battles of Stalingrad and Kursk are engraved in the minds if Russian nationalists. Russians did not want to be a colony of Imperial Germany.Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @More R1b, Less H1B, @Colin Wright
It’s telling that we always hear how the Jews are hard-working, but never, say, the Scots-Irish. The power of suggestion, I guess. Working in the coal mines just isn’t as arduous as bookkeeping. How did an ethnic group with a well-documented avoidance of manual labor to a degree that would shame foot-sniffing Chinese aristocrats manage this feat?
How many Jews are there in construction? Landscaping? (Masturbating into ficus plants doesn’t count.)
Yeah, the infinitesimal number of Jews in Honduras just clawed their massive share of the national wealth by pluck and grit.
and the Jews - namely the dislike and distrust of Germany. After all,
Poland that for centuries had the world’s highest percentage of the Jewish
people (typically 9-10%), lost roughly 3 million Christians and 3 million
Jews during World War II. In the space of 40 years the Germans committed
3 genocides, (1) In southwest Africa in the early 20th century; (2) In Poland
during WW II - genocide of the Christian population; (3) In Poland during
WW II - genocide of the Jewish population. Mainly now the disagreements
between Poland and worldwide Jewry are about who suffered more at the
hands of the Germans.
In addition to losing one-third of its territory, Germany has been defeated
and humiliated so many times that as hapless as the Germans are, hopefully
they lost taste for resorting to extreme violence. There are only 120 million
Germanics in Europe (incl. 20 million Scandinavians) while there are 240 million
Slavs. The Germanics, in their eternal struggle against the Slavs, never had
a chance. Hopefully, they learned this lesson well. Otherwise they will be
humiliated again. Ultimately it is Europe that is the loser as a result of the
constant quarrels among its inhabitants.Replies: @Anon 2, @IronCurtain
According to a recent Haaretz article, 296,000 Israeli tourists
visited Poland in 2018, 18.4% increase over 2017. I’m sure
similar numbers of Jewish tourists from the U.S. and other
countries visited Poland during the same time period. Visiting
Warsaw one gets the impression that practically overnight Warsaw has
become a multicultural city. In addition to the Jews, there are now
2-3 million Ukrainians working and studying in Poland (by the way,
the Ukrainian president Zelenski who is visiting Warsaw this weekend
in connection with the WW II anniversary looked so tiny next to the
Polish president Duda I thought the photo was photoshopped). One
also sees South Asians delivering food on bicycles. The Israeli
tourists interviewed for the article said they mainly come to Poland
to enjoy the food and do some shopping.
The same Haaretz article, however, also reported complaints from hotel managers
to the effect that the Israeli tourists are arrogant, quarrelsome, leave
garbage in the rooms, and have no respect for others’ property.
I was sharing an elevator at a Warsaw hotel with an Orthodox Jewish
family a couple of years ago. The wife stared at me with what an objective
observer could only interpret as hate. I kept the elevator door open as
the family, incl. their brood, was filing out. Did I get a thank you or
at least a smile? Of course, not.
On the other hand, one Israeli tourist said, “Forget the Holocaust! I come to
Poland to have fun.” Similarly, large numbers of Polish tourists now
visit Israel. Many in the West don’t realize that there are people in
Poland who basically regard Israel as a Polish colony in the Middle East.
After all, Ben-Gurion and Mileikowski (Netanyahu’s father) both grew up
in Warsaw. There were so many people from Poland in the early days of
Israel that Polish was an official language at the Knesset. The Palestinians
don’t say to the Jews “Go back to Russia (or Germany)!” They usually say
“Go back to Poland!” Several years ago when there were many knife attacks
in Israel, a Polish paramilitary group got organized to go to Israel, and, a la
Curtis Sliwa, to defend the Jews from Muslim attacks. That’s another thing
that the Polish and the Jews have in common – neither like the Muslims
very much. Remember Jan Sobieski and September 11, 1683.
Warsaw become multicultural?
I think not yet, but I can use another reason to dislike this place.
They are not wrong.
In the old times, going from writing about being compared to a bedbug (flammable or not) to writing about someone stating that some people actually carry parasites would not have brought in the required marks for passing the grade.
Meanwhile, in the series “Nobody is ever happy”:
On the use of “antisemitism” (the word): ‘Anti-Semitic’: Benjamin Netanyahu slams HBO series about murder of Palestinian
This game of “what about” then continues, passing all the way through Amin Gemayel until we arrive at “Paraoh”, upon which reparations are due.
What makes you so sure?
Pretty much any two groups have antagonistic relations. Jews aren’t special in this regard.
Yeah: Anti-Semites.
Why would anyone migrate TO desperately poor Albania? People LEAVE Albania.
Could it be anti-vaxxers instead of furreners?
The groups with the most anti-vaxxers tend to be E Europeans and Orthodox Jews.
My personal opinion is that the US should bar admission to our shores for anyone who can’t show proof of vaccination. I’ve been told that is waycist for me to say so. Not sure how that works, but is Muslims are a race and illegal aliens are a race, I suppose anti-Vax can be a race too.Replies: @J.Ross
The Age of Reason started after the 1848 Treaty of Westpalia the end of somewhere between 80 and 30 years of highly destructive warfare (depending on where you’re talking about) that depopulated Spain and large parts of Germany and impoverished France. Just before the final round of combat, armies of mercenaries under very little control roamed Germany, leaving starvation and death behind them whether they fought battles or not, and their only recognized leader was killed by his employers for plotting against them. Just about every major country in continental Europe had entered the war at some point, and was either still in it or had been battered into something incapable of fighting.
The complete reorganization of European international law (which is still the basic but eroded foundation of international law today) was based on reason.
Were (the surviving) people actually any more reasonable than they are today? No. They were terrified – terrified of poverty and death. They used reason as a lifeboat, as a common ground that everybody could understand, and on this common ground intended to reach agreements that would stop the high intensity fighting that (they observed) was destroying European civilization. The thinking involved was described by Hobbes (_Leviathan_, 1651, 3 years after the Treaty of Westphalia).
The idea is fairly simple: if you and a neighbor have a disagreement about over, say, a spite fence, or whose kid broke a window, you two can carry it on for decades. Or, if you have a squad of Hells Angels outside, promising to work you over with baseball bats unless you come to an agreement within the hour, the two of you will use reason to decide that an agreement is better than hospitalization for trauma and will reach an agreement. _That_ is the kind of reason the Treaty of Westphalia set up, and the kind of reason that Hobbes advocated in _The Leviathan_.
And it worked. Europe had Westphalian type absolute governments that fought limited wars with professional soldiers under a set of rules. Destruction was large, but not large enough to destroy civilization / upset the Hells Angels with the baseball bats standing by just outside of reality.
This system lasted until c.a. AD 1800, the French Revolution, when Napoleon B. re-introduced the large armies of the 30 Years War, armies so big that they lived a la maraude, by looting the countryside [1]. From there, things more or less deteriorated until reason utterly failed in the runnup to WW I. [2]
OK, so what?
Well, the rule of reason never did come back, not even after WW II and the Cold War deployment of enough firepower to knock human civilization (such as it is) back to AD 1800. The Cold War was ended by the collapse of the USSR because the USSR never did really recover from WW II [3].
Illustration: You can see that in the comments section of every article here, and in quite a few of the articles. The authors use insulting language that amounts to an invitation to a fight (although a physical fight fight is clearly impossible when the person posting can do nothing but type). They are trying to demonstrate escalation dominance — “I’m willing to fight (in fact I’m a bit demented), you aren’t, you lose and I win”. _This is tolerated, even expected, by the rest of the posters_. The moderators and most of the partcipants here are to be greatly praised for their ability to keep this sort of thing at its present relatively low level.
In the real world of work and politics, language that amounts to threats is routine and, where possible, is backed up by real threats — paramilitary Antifa, “twitter mobs” that end people’s careers, Federal persecution of “enemies”, most recently an intel op against a Presidential candidate and later a sitting President, one supported by a major political party, and on and on; the list is long enough.
The metaphorical Hells Angels are gone. _Nobody_ is terrified enough of warfare to avoid it. The political parties in the US seem to think that it is profitable. _Nobody_ is afraid of civil unrest. The political parties seem to regard it as a harmless political tactic, and actually regard it as a method of retaining office (“Where are my constituents to go? Will they vote for a candidate who maintains a system they can’t live in?”). Paul Craig Roberts has a reasonably good strategy to re-industrialize the US [4] that nobody will use because nobody is afraid of the consequences of letting the US economy rot (except maybe Trump. Maybe; he appears to think it’s a “nice to have” rather than a “right up there with breathing”).
And when that happens, reason is powerless [5] and we are back to the start of the 30 year’s war.
So: when your posts are met with insults and mad raving, at least you now know what is going on. You’ve just seen an attempted power play.
Counterinsurgency
1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Maraude
2] WW I being a war that nobody wanted, but nobody could stop because the rules limiting national armies to professionals with professional troops had been shattered (along with the appeal to reason that was their ultimate guarantor) by by Napoleon B.
3] Viktor Suvorov.
_The Chief Culprit_
Lenin, then Stalin, outfitted the USSR with an industry useful only for winning WW II. After the crippling losses of Soviet manpower during WW II, the remaining Russians proved unable to convert to civil production, despite strenuous effort by Khrushchev to do exactly that. The failure eventually de-legitimized Soviet society. See also Spufford, _Red Plenty_
4] Paul Craig Roberts.
“Can The American Economy Be Resurrected?”.
Fri, 08/30/2019 – 19:10
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/can-american-economy-be-resurrected
This plan would benefit the hinterland / flyover country, so the urban areas and Yankeedom will veto it. They aren’t in the least afraid of strife with their hinterlands; in fact, it appears to be a major source of entertainment for them.
4] http://www.ditext.com/carroll/tortoise.html
Robert Carrol. A tortoise who isn’t in the least afraid of Achilles temper can lead Achilles about by the nose, because the tortoise is correct: logical argument can’t compel belief, or even an end to logical argument.
http://www.iheartradio.ca/news/joni-mitchell-shows-up-at-blondie-concert-1.9677415http://www.iheartradio.ca/image/policy:1.9677426:1565262583/joni.jpg?f=default&$p$f=73fa7a4Replies: @Jack D
Some 70+ year old’s are in better shape than others. See recent pics of Hillary. Humans are like cars – some cars are on the road at 100,000+ miles and have many good years left in them. Others of the same vintage are rust buckets or in the junkyard. Joni is not on her feet anymore but she looks happy enough.
Yes, it’s a little shocking if the last time you saw her was at a concert in 1979 but that was 40 years ago – we are all a little worse for wear 40 years on. I recently came across a YouTube of James Taylor with Jay Leno on his cars program and started watching in the middle, after the introductions (they were driving a car that Taylor drove in some old movie – I didn’t even know that Taylor had been in a movie). It took me about 5 minutes before I realized that the bald headed withered old man who was talking to Leno was James Taylor.
Two Lane Blacktop! Warren Oates! Monte Hellman (often confused with Terrence Malick)!
Hellman helped launch Jack Nicholson and Quentin Tarantino and (according to the new book Fire and Rain) watched James Taylor almost kill the cast of Two-Lane Blacktop in the final race scene by stomping on the gas, unaware the car was in reverse. Malick did none of the above.
Were those two groups in fact foreign presences in their country?
Maybe Stephens was hired to be the NYT version of a heel in professional wrestling. He has stirred up more Twitter outrages than any other columnist since then, by a long shot. I don’t remember him seeming quite this obnoxious at the WSJ or Jerusalem Post.
Yes, it’s very plausible, though Jews making up oppression stories is common enough–just like blacks with fake nooses.
On the whole though, I agree. Much of the Polish population loathed the Jews. And why not? The Jews exploited the Polish peasantry–from whom most Poles are descended–unmercifully in the later Middle Ages and into the 19th century at least.
The Polish Szlachta (nobility) and the Jews worked out an entente whereby the Jews would do the dirty work of tax farming and noble estate management which involved endless exactions made on the peasants.
Of course the Poles didn’t like the Jews. Why should they have?
Define 'exploit'.Replies: @Hunsdon
There are always consequences to being politically intolerable to a majority, especially in the hypocritical 180 degree manner that most known activist Jews prefer.
Someone should review Israel's cultural similarities to 1930's Germany with this nasty blowhard.Replies: @Art Deco
Someone should review Israel’s cultural similarities to 1930’s Germany with this nasty blowhard.
You know, Anon, we often don’t see ourselves as others do.
spending his career advocating for Jewish ethnonationalist interests
He’s lived in four different countries. Among them, he spent the least amount of time (two years) in Israel. His wife is German (and has also lived in four different countries). He’s loyal to a class of people, not to an actual people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsAXoyFlroU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by-3-WE8-TI
Bret is loyal to an actual people--Jews. Living in different countries and not being loyal to the people in those countries isn't weird for Jews, but rather historically typical. (Other middle man minorities as well.) Their loyalty is to their own tribe/nation--their fellow Jews.
Which, of course, is one of the reasons why Jews tend to be unloved by others. People tend to like and be loyal to people who like and are loyal to them in return.
Bret is just a particularly hard case, where it's not just that his first loyalty is to his fellow Jews, but that he is actively, outspokenly hostile to the American people and their interests. Bedbug Bret is simply not an American in any sense other than "has passport" and has no business being here.Replies: @Mr. Anon
And the State Department, and the Executive Office Building, and certain offices in the Pentagon, and etc. Like’s got nothing to do with it. You don’t have to be liked to have influence.
Had the same experience watching one of those British travelogue programs. Two old dudes motoring through Wales, stopping in on old friends of one of them. It was only at the end of the program I realized the two old dudes were Christopher Timothy and Peter Davison, who cadged an audience over here around about 1980 when the BBC serial of the James Herriot books was recycled on public television. Christopher Timothy has no hair to speak of and a nose the size of a casaba melon. He’s also older than James Herriot ever lived to be.
You know, Anon, we often don't see ourselves as others do.
spending his career advocating for Jewish ethnonationalist interests
He's lived in four different countries. Among them, he spent the least amount of time (two years) in Israel. His wife is German (and has also lived in four different countries). He's loyal to a class of people, not to an actual people.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @AnotherDad
And – as usual – you are full of s**t.
I think the point of employing Stephens, Jennifer Rubin, David Brooks, and, at this stage of his career, George Will, is that they provide emotional validation for the paper’s employees and a small selection of readers (as well as a crude talking point). Ross Douthat’s a capon, but what he advocates between apologies is outre enough to their readers that it doesn’t provide what the others do. Megan McArdle writes about business and the economy, subjects in which which most bourgeois coastal-city liberals don’t have much of an emotional investment.
(I actually see that as a contribution to Western culture--imagine what pagan Romans would have done with the Bomb?)Replies: @Art Deco
The evolution of economic sectors had been such in Poland that there were communal distinctions between them. The peasantry, the military, and the clergy were Slavs (predominantly Polish with some Ukrainians and White Russians). The merchants and professionals were largely Jewish and German. Jews and Germans together formed 13% of the population. In this country, you only see Jewish proportions in that range around New York and Miami. In Roumania, the proportion was smaller (5%), but a large swath of Roumania’s seigneurial class had leased their demesne lands to Jewish businessmen, who in the process also acquired some residual dues from the former serfs. The modal social relation between Jew and Gentile in Roumania consisted of disagreeable tangles between peasants and commerical agribusinessmen. In Bulgaria, the Jewish population was smaller (< 2%) and mostly employed as artisans and you didn't have these sorts of inter-communal resentments; the Bulgarian government protected its Jewish population. In Hungary, the law during the inter-war period was escalatingly unfriendly to the Jewish population (e.g. placing statutory limits on the number of occupational licenses which could be issued to Jewish applicants), but you didn't see the sort of mass deportations the Roumanian military was willing to countenance (and which were part of the policy debate in interwar Poland). Deportations of Hungarian Jews began only after Germany had occupied the country.
at this point i just want to punch these guys.
it’s all so tiresome. what possible meaningful discourse could be had anymore. yeah, we know what you think, annoying jewish guys. it would be like the entire country forced to watch WWF feuds, with roided out meatheads shouting at each, and over and over for the next 50 years, except you can’t participate or discuss anything or have a voice yourself, you just have to listen to wrestling promos all day every day for the rest of time. and not the good ones from the 80s when the wrestlers had charisma and flair and were coked up and hilarious. it would be the new, boring wrestlers, who put you to sleep, and you don’t even know who the champion is because you couldn’t be bothered to watch 2 minutes of them drone on and on.
i wonder if, like pro wrestling, journalism and magazine writing will descend into a zero ratings tiny little world, where nobody is paying attention anymore, except a few jews standing on a soap box to see who can be the most annoying, shouting jew of the year, as the rest of the country tuned out years ago.
I recently watched an indie film on Netflix (IIRC) called “Small Apartments.” There was a decrepit old man in it that I eventually realized was James Caan. Of course, he’s 79 now and has been known to indulge rather freely in the pharmaceuticals.
is Karpf saying he only attacked Stephens because he thought he was a WASP.
that’s an important statement. doesn’t that mean that Karpf sees the battle for America won, and leftist jews like him have won a total victory, and now they’re just in mop up mode, and he thought he stumbled across one of the few WASP survivors left, still alive, and still talking, still breathing in fact. and Karpf basically said, you’re just a pest or vermin at this point, it’s annoying i have to even hear you breathe, guys like you are annoying bugs that we’ll eventually clean up the last few.
“Sometimes a bedbug is just a bedbug.”
–Sigmund Freud (paraphrased).
Source is Jewish therefore biased and unacceptable. Just like Polish sources are not good enough for you when it comes to “pogrom” in Przytyk.
He’s a Catholic. On some level, Christians are supposed to be nice.
(I actually see that as a contribution to Western culture–imagine what pagan Romans would have done with the Bomb?)
In Douthat's case, he had, about a dozen years ago, of seeming to almost apologize for what he was advocating. He got better for a while, then began to deteriorate.
See, for example, his dithering over Brett Kavanaugh. That's really not a difficult call if you're not emotionally invested in the outcome, because the accuser produced not one piece of evidence that she'd ever met him. Not an old Polaroid, not a diary entry, and not the testimony of anyone who could be reliably identified as a mutual acquaintance of the two. There wasn't even an argument from circumstance. She didn't live anywhere near him or Mark Judge, did not attend school with them, and did not attend school with Mark Judge's sister. Neither did her brother attend school with them. There were contentions that E.E. Kavanaugh and papa Ralph Blasey had a club membership in common, but she never contended that was the connection and that particular club is members-only and doesn't allow family on the campus. Mark Judge published a memoir of his youth about 15 years ago. Where do you fancy she got his name and Kavanaugh's? Then all four individuals supposedly present when she was 'assaulted' draw a blank about any such gathering and the chap she names as having introduced them produces a statement for the FBI which assists her case not at all. Then, astonishingly the accused produces a 1982 appointment calendar and her name and initials are nowhere to be found on it. Then you add in her conflicting stories over a half-dozen years about the time period and precise circumstances, her manifest lying about ancillary matters, &c. And here we're talking about someone who had been subject to a half-dozen FBI background checks over a period of 28 years. And Ross Douthat can't make a decision.Replies: @MEH 0910
You know, Anon, we often don't see ourselves as others do.
spending his career advocating for Jewish ethnonationalist interests
He's lived in four different countries. Among them, he spent the least amount of time (two years) in Israel. His wife is German (and has also lived in four different countries). He's loyal to a class of people, not to an actual people.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @AnotherDad
C’mon Art, you’re usually better than that.
Bret is loyal to an actual people–Jews. Living in different countries and not being loyal to the people in those countries isn’t weird for Jews, but rather historically typical. (Other middle man minorities as well.) Their loyalty is to their own tribe/nation–their fellow Jews.
Which, of course, is one of the reasons why Jews tend to be unloved by others. People tend to like and be loyal to people who like and are loyal to them in return.
Bret is just a particularly hard case, where it’s not just that his first loyalty is to his fellow Jews, but that he is actively, outspokenly hostile to the American people and their interests. Bedbug Bret is simply not an American in any sense other than “has passport” and has no business being here.
Whether the quote is true or not, I would be very surprised if David Karpf was aware of it when he made the quip about Bret Stephens.
Karpf appears to be a run-of-the-mill liberal. Stephens is a neocon. Karpf does not like Stephens' political views (or his well-known pomposity, I suspect).
That pretty much explains the whole event, I strongly suspect.
Personally, if the worst thing anyone had ever called me in my life was a "metaphorical (!) bedbug," I'd be rather pleased.
In fact, I have been accused (both in one thread!) of being a crypto-Jewish tool of the Zionists imperialists and an anti-Semite. From which I have concluded that maybe everyone should lay off psychoanalyzing other folks on their philo-Semitism or anti-Semitism, unless they explicitly declare it.
For the record I do admit to being philo-humanist. I have liked most human beings I have known of all ethnic groups (I met a charming group of Ethiopian students last year, but alas we only had a few minutes to chat). I have also known a handful of nasty people from all sorts of ethnic groups -- Caucasians, East Asians, etc.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto."Replies: @Anounder
Just say you’re a liberal. Your ilk needs to die off already for this world to ever be less degenerate.
And yet you’d never move to a Black majority anywhere. Regardless of what Uncle Toms you’ve met.
If anyone is a "liberal" who is tolerant of people of all sorts of ethnic groups, that makes John Derbyshire, Ted Cruz, and, indeed, the Donald himself all "liberals."
Or maybe you mean a nineteenth-century liberal, like Richard Cobden, William Graham Sumner, Herbert Spencer, et al. Yeah, I can cop to being a Cobdenite.
Seriously, you are playing right into the hands of the ruling elite: "divide and conquer" is the time-honored technique of imperial rulers throughout history.
The real enemy is the (still predominantly white) ruling elite, the people who have wrecked our educational system, our financial and monetary system, our medical care, our family structures, our foreign policy, and all the rest.
It is they who have created a culture of corruption such that we can no longer trust our system of "justice," our sources of "news," even our popular entertainment.
Yeah, there are some blacks and Hispanics and Jews and East Asians and South Asians among that ruling elite.
But most blacks and Hispanics and Jews and East Asians and South Asians are being ground down by the corruption and incompetence of the ruling elite just as most white people are.
You may have a fantasy in which you can just look at the color of a man's skin, and the color coding will tell you if he is good or bad (kinds like the "color-coded" fake "revolutions" the American elite fomented abroad a few years ago). But that is not how the real world works.
Most of the evil that has been done to this country has been done by people who look like you and me.
And, until you face up to that reality, you are a tool of the elite.Replies: @Anounder
“I didn’t even know that Taylor had been in a movie”
Two Lane Blacktop! Warren Oates! Monte Hellman (often confused with Terrence Malick)!
Hellman helped launch Jack Nicholson and Quentin Tarantino and (according to the new book Fire and Rain) watched James Taylor almost kill the cast of Two-Lane Blacktop in the final race scene by stomping on the gas, unaware the car was in reverse. Malick did none of the above.
https://polska.pl/arts/literature/zofia-kossak-szczucka-anti-semite-who-saved-jews/Replies: @Not Raul
Thanks for telling me about Kossak.
Tonini is a slanderer. It’s a shame that she gets to write history.
I’ve always wondered if Jews were the source of the Polish-people-are-stupid jokes. Blonde jokes, too. Well, jeeish women anyway. I’d be interested to see an investigation into the origin of these racist stereotypes.
On the whole though, I agree. Much of the Polish population loathed the Jews. And why not? The Jews exploited the Polish peasantry--from whom most Poles are descended--unmercifully in the later Middle Ages and into the 19th century at least.
The Polish Szlachta (nobility) and the Jews worked out an entente whereby the Jews would do the dirty work of tax farming and noble estate management which involved endless exactions made on the peasants.
Of course the Poles didn't like the Jews. Why should they have?Replies: @Art Deco
Jews exploited the Polish peasantry–from whom most Poles are descended–unmercifully in the later Middle Ages and into the 19th century at least.
Define ‘exploit’.
The complete reorganization of European international law (which is still the basic but eroded foundation of international law today) was based on reason.
Were (the surviving) people actually any more reasonable than they are today? No. They were terrified - terrified of poverty and death. They used reason as a lifeboat, as a common ground that everybody could understand, and on this common ground intended to reach agreements that would stop the high intensity fighting that (they observed) was destroying European civilization. The thinking involved was described by Hobbes (_Leviathan_, 1651, 3 years after the Treaty of Westphalia).
The idea is fairly simple: if you and a neighbor have a disagreement about over, say, a spite fence, or whose kid broke a window, you two can carry it on for decades. Or, if you have a squad of Hells Angels outside, promising to work you over with baseball bats unless you come to an agreement within the hour, the two of you will use reason to decide that an agreement is better than hospitalization for trauma and will reach an agreement. _That_ is the kind of reason the Treaty of Westphalia set up, and the kind of reason that Hobbes advocated in _The Leviathan_.
And it worked. Europe had Westphalian type absolute governments that fought limited wars with professional soldiers under a set of rules. Destruction was large, but not large enough to destroy civilization / upset the Hells Angels with the baseball bats standing by just outside of reality.
This system lasted until c.a. AD 1800, the French Revolution, when Napoleon B. re-introduced the large armies of the 30 Years War, armies so big that they lived a la maraude, by looting the countryside [1]. From there, things more or less deteriorated until reason utterly failed in the runnup to WW I. [2]
OK, so what?
Well, the rule of reason never did come back, not even after WW II and the Cold War deployment of enough firepower to knock human civilization (such as it is) back to AD 1800. The Cold War was ended by the collapse of the USSR because the USSR never did really recover from WW II [3].
Illustration: You can see that in the comments section of every article here, and in quite a few of the articles. The authors use insulting language that amounts to an invitation to a fight (although a physical fight fight is clearly impossible when the person posting can do nothing but type). They are trying to demonstrate escalation dominance -- "I'm willing to fight (in fact I'm a bit demented), you aren't, you lose and I win". _This is tolerated, even expected, by the rest of the posters_. The moderators and most of the partcipants here are to be greatly praised for their ability to keep this sort of thing at its present relatively low level.
In the real world of work and politics, language that amounts to threats is routine and, where possible, is backed up by real threats -- paramilitary Antifa, "twitter mobs" that end people's careers, Federal persecution of "enemies", most recently an intel op against a Presidential candidate and later a sitting President, one supported by a major political party, and on and on; the list is long enough.
The metaphorical Hells Angels are gone. _Nobody_ is terrified enough of warfare to avoid it. The political parties in the US seem to think that it is profitable. _Nobody_ is afraid of civil unrest. The political parties seem to regard it as a harmless political tactic, and actually regard it as a method of retaining office ("Where are my constituents to go? Will they vote for a candidate who maintains a system they can't live in?"). Paul Craig Roberts has a reasonably good strategy to re-industrialize the US [4] that nobody will use because nobody is afraid of the consequences of letting the US economy rot (except maybe Trump. Maybe; he appears to think it's a "nice to have" rather than a "right up there with breathing").
And when that happens, reason is powerless [5] and we are back to the start of the 30 year's war.
So: when your posts are met with insults and mad raving, at least you now know what is going on. You've just seen an attempted power play.
Counterinsurgency
1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Maraude
2] WW I being a war that nobody wanted, but nobody could stop because the rules limiting national armies to professionals with professional troops had been shattered (along with the appeal to reason that was their ultimate guarantor) by by Napoleon B.
3] Viktor Suvorov.
_The Chief Culprit_
Lenin, then Stalin, outfitted the USSR with an industry useful only for winning WW II. After the crippling losses of Soviet manpower during WW II, the remaining Russians proved unable to convert to civil production, despite strenuous effort by Khrushchev to do exactly that. The failure eventually de-legitimized Soviet society. See also Spufford, _Red Plenty_
4] Paul Craig Roberts.
"Can The American Economy Be Resurrected?".
Fri, 08/30/2019 - 19:10
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/can-american-economy-be-resurrected
This plan would benefit the hinterland / flyover country, so the urban areas and Yankeedom will veto it. They aren't in the least afraid of strife with their hinterlands; in fact, it appears to be a major source of entertainment for them.
4] http://www.ditext.com/carroll/tortoise.html
Robert Carrol. A tortoise who isn't in the least afraid of Achilles temper can lead Achilles about by the nose, because the tortoise is correct: logical argument can't compel belief, or even an end to logical argument.Replies: @sayless, @Alden
Excellent post Counterinsurgency, thanks.
(I actually see that as a contribution to Western culture--imagine what pagan Romans would have done with the Bomb?)Replies: @Art Deco
No, Christians are supposed to be charitable – to attempt to put the best construction on what someone says and does and use that as a point of departure. For the layman just trying to get through life, of course, you often come to a situation where assessing situations is zero-sum. Putting the best construction on one persons acts and statements precludes doing so with regard to someone else.
In Douthat’s case, he had, about a dozen years ago, of seeming to almost apologize for what he was advocating. He got better for a while, then began to deteriorate.
See, for example, his dithering over Brett Kavanaugh. That’s really not a difficult call if you’re not emotionally invested in the outcome, because the accuser produced not one piece of evidence that she’d ever met him. Not an old Polaroid, not a diary entry, and not the testimony of anyone who could be reliably identified as a mutual acquaintance of the two. There wasn’t even an argument from circumstance. She didn’t live anywhere near him or Mark Judge, did not attend school with them, and did not attend school with Mark Judge’s sister. Neither did her brother attend school with them. There were contentions that E.E. Kavanaugh and papa Ralph Blasey had a club membership in common, but she never contended that was the connection and that particular club is members-only and doesn’t allow family on the campus. Mark Judge published a memoir of his youth about 15 years ago. Where do you fancy she got his name and Kavanaugh’s? Then all four individuals supposedly present when she was ‘assaulted’ draw a blank about any such gathering and the chap she names as having introduced them produces a statement for the FBI which assists her case not at all. Then, astonishingly the accused produces a 1982 appointment calendar and her name and initials are nowhere to be found on it. Then you add in her conflicting stories over a half-dozen years about the time period and precise circumstances, her manifest lying about ancillary matters, &c. And here we’re talking about someone who had been subject to a half-dozen FBI background checks over a period of 28 years. And Ross Douthat can’t make a decision.
https://twitter.com/BuckSexton/status/1169294482757640193
Jewish people are far more intelligent, versatile, hard working and dedicated than most of the "White Nationalists".If your ethnic group , makes it to the top in almost every country they inhabit, then they certainly are the "The Chosen People'.
I agree a lot of them are avaricious to a worrying extent but vast majority of them think, act and live like an average White person.Biggest damage to White America was carried out by the perfidious Republicans in the 80s and early 90s when Bill Clinton wanted to reduce immigration on the recommendations by a Black Congresswoman.
But, Republicans passed an amnesty, increased legal immigration by at least 40 percent and passed Diversity Visa Lottery bill.
Who is to be blamed when politicians like Warren,Gilibrand, Gavin Newsome and O'Rourke pass anti white comments?
Catholic and Lutheran churches are screwing White people nowadays.
Hitler did more damage to White people than anybody else and Stalin had disposed of the Bolshevik Jews by 1938. Ethnic Russians were fighting for their survival against German Imperialism. It came to be known as the Great Patriotic War. The existential battles of Stalingrad and Kursk are engraved in the minds if Russian nationalists. Russians did not want to be a colony of Imperial Germany.Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @More R1b, Less H1B, @Colin Wright
‘Why wrong have the Jews done?’
Israel.
The complete reorganization of European international law (which is still the basic but eroded foundation of international law today) was based on reason.
Were (the surviving) people actually any more reasonable than they are today? No. They were terrified - terrified of poverty and death. They used reason as a lifeboat, as a common ground that everybody could understand, and on this common ground intended to reach agreements that would stop the high intensity fighting that (they observed) was destroying European civilization. The thinking involved was described by Hobbes (_Leviathan_, 1651, 3 years after the Treaty of Westphalia).
The idea is fairly simple: if you and a neighbor have a disagreement about over, say, a spite fence, or whose kid broke a window, you two can carry it on for decades. Or, if you have a squad of Hells Angels outside, promising to work you over with baseball bats unless you come to an agreement within the hour, the two of you will use reason to decide that an agreement is better than hospitalization for trauma and will reach an agreement. _That_ is the kind of reason the Treaty of Westphalia set up, and the kind of reason that Hobbes advocated in _The Leviathan_.
And it worked. Europe had Westphalian type absolute governments that fought limited wars with professional soldiers under a set of rules. Destruction was large, but not large enough to destroy civilization / upset the Hells Angels with the baseball bats standing by just outside of reality.
This system lasted until c.a. AD 1800, the French Revolution, when Napoleon B. re-introduced the large armies of the 30 Years War, armies so big that they lived a la maraude, by looting the countryside [1]. From there, things more or less deteriorated until reason utterly failed in the runnup to WW I. [2]
OK, so what?
Well, the rule of reason never did come back, not even after WW II and the Cold War deployment of enough firepower to knock human civilization (such as it is) back to AD 1800. The Cold War was ended by the collapse of the USSR because the USSR never did really recover from WW II [3].
Illustration: You can see that in the comments section of every article here, and in quite a few of the articles. The authors use insulting language that amounts to an invitation to a fight (although a physical fight fight is clearly impossible when the person posting can do nothing but type). They are trying to demonstrate escalation dominance -- "I'm willing to fight (in fact I'm a bit demented), you aren't, you lose and I win". _This is tolerated, even expected, by the rest of the posters_. The moderators and most of the partcipants here are to be greatly praised for their ability to keep this sort of thing at its present relatively low level.
In the real world of work and politics, language that amounts to threats is routine and, where possible, is backed up by real threats -- paramilitary Antifa, "twitter mobs" that end people's careers, Federal persecution of "enemies", most recently an intel op against a Presidential candidate and later a sitting President, one supported by a major political party, and on and on; the list is long enough.
The metaphorical Hells Angels are gone. _Nobody_ is terrified enough of warfare to avoid it. The political parties in the US seem to think that it is profitable. _Nobody_ is afraid of civil unrest. The political parties seem to regard it as a harmless political tactic, and actually regard it as a method of retaining office ("Where are my constituents to go? Will they vote for a candidate who maintains a system they can't live in?"). Paul Craig Roberts has a reasonably good strategy to re-industrialize the US [4] that nobody will use because nobody is afraid of the consequences of letting the US economy rot (except maybe Trump. Maybe; he appears to think it's a "nice to have" rather than a "right up there with breathing").
And when that happens, reason is powerless [5] and we are back to the start of the 30 year's war.
So: when your posts are met with insults and mad raving, at least you now know what is going on. You've just seen an attempted power play.
Counterinsurgency
1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Maraude
2] WW I being a war that nobody wanted, but nobody could stop because the rules limiting national armies to professionals with professional troops had been shattered (along with the appeal to reason that was their ultimate guarantor) by by Napoleon B.
3] Viktor Suvorov.
_The Chief Culprit_
Lenin, then Stalin, outfitted the USSR with an industry useful only for winning WW II. After the crippling losses of Soviet manpower during WW II, the remaining Russians proved unable to convert to civil production, despite strenuous effort by Khrushchev to do exactly that. The failure eventually de-legitimized Soviet society. See also Spufford, _Red Plenty_
4] Paul Craig Roberts.
"Can The American Economy Be Resurrected?".
Fri, 08/30/2019 - 19:10
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/can-american-economy-be-resurrected
This plan would benefit the hinterland / flyover country, so the urban areas and Yankeedom will veto it. They aren't in the least afraid of strife with their hinterlands; in fact, it appears to be a major source of entertainment for them.
4] http://www.ditext.com/carroll/tortoise.html
Robert Carrol. A tortoise who isn't in the least afraid of Achilles temper can lead Achilles about by the nose, because the tortoise is correct: logical argument can't compel belief, or even an end to logical argument.Replies: @sayless, @Alden
1648 not 1848
Israel.Replies: @Art Deco
Israel is an accomplishment, not a wrong. It irritates the people who are bereft of accomplishments.
Barf. It's lies and evil that irritate me. They particularly irritate me when it is my country that serves them.Replies: @Art Deco
My main complaint, as an American, is the insistence on dragging the USA into the constant mess that Israel finds itself in because it chose to exist in a very nasty neighborhood (and, yes, I know this is due as much to goofy fundamentalists as to American Jews). If my cousin chose to buy a house in a slum, I do not expect him to call me and all the other cousins to help protect him during the constant gang wars.
Israeli Jews chose to relocate to a part of the world that is a very nasty slum.Replies: @Hunsdon
‘Israel is an accomplishment, not a wrong. It irritates the people who are bereft of accomplishments.’
Barf. It’s lies and evil that irritate me. They particularly irritate me when it is my country that serves them.
Anounder wrote to me:
Well, let’s see: I oppose gun control, affirmative action, any sort of taxes… which certainly makes me an awfully funny kind of liberal!
If anyone is a “liberal” who is tolerant of people of all sorts of ethnic groups, that makes John Derbyshire, Ted Cruz, and, indeed, the Donald himself all “liberals.”
Or maybe you mean a nineteenth-century liberal, like Richard Cobden, William Graham Sumner, Herbert Spencer, et al. Yeah, I can cop to being a Cobdenite.
Seriously, you are playing right into the hands of the ruling elite: “divide and conquer” is the time-honored technique of imperial rulers throughout history.
The real enemy is the (still predominantly white) ruling elite, the people who have wrecked our educational system, our financial and monetary system, our medical care, our family structures, our foreign policy, and all the rest.
It is they who have created a culture of corruption such that we can no longer trust our system of “justice,” our sources of “news,” even our popular entertainment.
Yeah, there are some blacks and Hispanics and Jews and East Asians and South Asians among that ruling elite.
But most blacks and Hispanics and Jews and East Asians and South Asians are being ground down by the corruption and incompetence of the ruling elite just as most white people are.
You may have a fantasy in which you can just look at the color of a man’s skin, and the color coding will tell you if he is good or bad (kinds like the “color-coded” fake “revolutions” the American elite fomented abroad a few years ago). But that is not how the real world works.
Most of the evil that has been done to this country has been done by people who look like you and me.
And, until you face up to that reality, you are a tool of the elite.
Nice job trying to dodge the observation that race matters with "Muh White Elites."West Civilization for the past centuries can be called a "culture of corruption." I'm talking the 1600s at the latest.Global Elites are well aboard either Americanism (if only from being puppet stooges like the Japan's) or Liberalism. The less degenerate in comparison countries like China still accept Liberal/Post-1400 West tenants.So what they still don't see you as their brother as they gladly rob you and violate your daugter.
You refusing to acknowledge you're not an atomized product of will but do have ties of heritage (aka race) doesn't mean the Muds do. Try actually to go to an authentic Negro majority "neighborhood" or Muslim community (so no Uncle Toms) and pull your Middle Class White Boy "I don't see color" babble with them. Better yet, stay home and let your daughter walk through those areas unaccompanied by males.So do you want me to start posting crime stats and anatomy differences?Jews can pass as Honkies now and then yes.
I'll wait you for to tell me how Detroit has nothing to do with all the Negroes there and its all the Democrats fault. Even though it's been thousands of years and there are still more or less no Negro contributions to civilization.Did you hear about how Negroes were better behaved under segregation?Replies: @PhysicistDave
Bret is loyal to an actual people--Jews. Living in different countries and not being loyal to the people in those countries isn't weird for Jews, but rather historically typical. (Other middle man minorities as well.) Their loyalty is to their own tribe/nation--their fellow Jews.
Which, of course, is one of the reasons why Jews tend to be unloved by others. People tend to like and be loyal to people who like and are loyal to them in return.
Bret is just a particularly hard case, where it's not just that his first loyalty is to his fellow Jews, but that he is actively, outspokenly hostile to the American people and their interests. Bedbug Bret is simply not an American in any sense other than "has passport" and has no business being here.Replies: @Mr. Anon
No, he isn’t. He’s an idiot. And, in his own way, also a bedbug.
AD write:
It did not seem that way to the Arabs who were already living in Palestine.
My main complaint, as an American, is the insistence on dragging the USA into the constant mess that Israel finds itself in because it chose to exist in a very nasty neighborhood (and, yes, I know this is due as much to goofy fundamentalists as to American Jews). If my cousin chose to buy a house in a slum, I do not expect him to call me and all the other cousins to help protect him during the constant gang wars.
Israeli Jews chose to relocate to a part of the world that is a very nasty slum.
Honestly, at this point I don’t even care. I just think this story is over-the-top hilarious, and Bret just keeps making it better. I fully expect him to next come up with some story about Hitler obsessing over bedbugs.
If anyone is a "liberal" who is tolerant of people of all sorts of ethnic groups, that makes John Derbyshire, Ted Cruz, and, indeed, the Donald himself all "liberals."
Or maybe you mean a nineteenth-century liberal, like Richard Cobden, William Graham Sumner, Herbert Spencer, et al. Yeah, I can cop to being a Cobdenite.
Seriously, you are playing right into the hands of the ruling elite: "divide and conquer" is the time-honored technique of imperial rulers throughout history.
The real enemy is the (still predominantly white) ruling elite, the people who have wrecked our educational system, our financial and monetary system, our medical care, our family structures, our foreign policy, and all the rest.
It is they who have created a culture of corruption such that we can no longer trust our system of "justice," our sources of "news," even our popular entertainment.
Yeah, there are some blacks and Hispanics and Jews and East Asians and South Asians among that ruling elite.
But most blacks and Hispanics and Jews and East Asians and South Asians are being ground down by the corruption and incompetence of the ruling elite just as most white people are.
You may have a fantasy in which you can just look at the color of a man's skin, and the color coding will tell you if he is good or bad (kinds like the "color-coded" fake "revolutions" the American elite fomented abroad a few years ago). But that is not how the real world works.
Most of the evil that has been done to this country has been done by people who look like you and me.
And, until you face up to that reality, you are a tool of the elite.Replies: @Anounder
Aren’t you special?
Yeah they are liberals. Trump alone is nothing more than a pawn at best, to a knowing ally at worst. Him having a Jewish son-in-law makes it obvious enough he’s no White Nationalist and is obvious aboard Globohomo’s train ( him having a daughter who’s every shameful thing about modern women backs that).
And they were all degenerates who continued the poison in this world that cemented itself as Globohomo. We wouldn’t have Tranny Bathrooms and Drag Queen Story Time without it.
Yeah man, I’m sure Tyrone sees you for his brother and not as a White Devil since you’re both hurt by Da Man.
Every society bigger than mudhuts has an entrenched elite. With that said, leave it to a Cuckservative to act like “West Civilization” was totally fine before Da Gubnimt or Da Jews came along. No no, it poison for quite awhile.
Nice job trying to dodge the observation that race matters with “Muh White Elites.”
West Civilization for the past centuries can be called a “culture of corruption.” I’m talking the 1600s at the latest.
Global Elites are well aboard either Americanism (if only from being puppet stooges like the Japan’s) or Liberalism. The less degenerate in comparison countries like China still accept Liberal/Post-1400 West tenants.
So what they still don’t see you as their brother as they gladly rob you and violate your daugter.
You refusing to acknowledge you’re not an atomized product of will but do have ties of heritage (aka race) doesn’t mean the Muds do. Try actually to go to an authentic Negro majority “neighborhood” or Muslim community (so no Uncle Toms) and pull your Middle Class White Boy “I don’t see color” babble with them. Better yet, stay home and let your daughter walk through those areas unaccompanied by males.
So do you want me to start posting crime stats and anatomy differences?
Jews can pass as Honkies now and then yes.
I’ll wait you for to tell me how Detroit has nothing to do with all the Negroes there and its all the Democrats fault. Even though it’s been thousands of years and there are still more or less no Negro contributions to civilization.
Did you hear about how Negroes were better behaved under segregation?
Anounder also wrote:Hmmm..... Anesthesia. Indoor plumbing. Antibiotics. Electric lighting. The Bill of Rights. Mechanical transportation. Telephones. Supermarkets. Modern dentistry. Beethoven, Debussy, and Gershwin. Ballpoint pens. The Internet.
Did I mention antibiotics and anesthesia?
You want to go back to the 1600s (or earlier), be my guest. But don't be a hypocrite: honestly forego all the items I just mentioned above.Replies: @Anon
Barf. It's lies and evil that irritate me. They particularly irritate me when it is my country that serves them.Replies: @Art Deco
The lies are those you’ve propagated to yourself. Israel is not your problem. Your problem is to be found between your two ears.
Not Anti-Vaxxers: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-albania/migrant-numbers-leap-on-new-balkan-route-across-albania-idUSKCN1J41KP
Could it be anti-vaxxers instead of furreners?Replies: @Paleo Liberal
There are reports that Eastern Europe is crawling with anti-vaxxers. Some of the outbreaks which came to the US supposedly originated in Eastern Europe.
The groups with the most anti-vaxxers tend to be E Europeans and Orthodox Jews.
My personal opinion is that the US should bar admission to our shores for anyone who can’t show proof of vaccination. I’ve been told that is waycist for me to say so. Not sure how that works, but is Muslims are a race and illegal aliens are a race, I suppose anti-Vax can be a race too.
What’s really not OK, Dave, is that Bret has an Anglo sounding name so you don’t automatically know that he’s a Jew.
The groups with the most anti-vaxxers tend to be E Europeans and Orthodox Jews.
My personal opinion is that the US should bar admission to our shores for anyone who can’t show proof of vaccination. I’ve been told that is waycist for me to say so. Not sure how that works, but is Muslims are a race and illegal aliens are a race, I suppose anti-Vax can be a race too.Replies: @J.Ross
All of the recent outbreaks can be traced to immigrants, we are hearing about “anti-vaxxing” at all because of the mass media self-censorship on immigrant crime, and the anti-vaxxers could be won over anyway if the government had any power over big pharma. There is no reason to mention vaccination if we’re going to have open borders and billionaire astroturf operations with their own ships smuggling in Africans from countrues where they physically attack the doctors.
https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/globalmeaslesoutbreaks.htm
The Measles outbreak in NY is due to orthodox Jews travelling to Israel. Orthodox Jews are among the worst in vaccinations. There have been plenty of battles because Orthodox Jews still want their un-vaccinated brats in schools and other public places.https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/measles.aspx
The Disneyland Measles outbreak, which spread to 6 US states, as well as Mexico and Canada, appears to be from a teenage tourist from New Zealand.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/california-tourist-measles-disneyland_n_5d62da52e4b0b59d25767737?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACNIJYRzydXmKuHYXG5Mr_BLXGVKelgOGDUa4_RXy2KCNI5LqMwBwTz1lC-V46tfqPrega7fsXdBAKAAqAzINbm0Aef-mm3GmDkFDKf7LXdeX3c4-EJM6z0_seLWDkAC5LhxxNlpzNUYDZsve3l6VBu86gp8NXL8yS8D59Sov6Eu
So how do you come to the conclusion that Measles is spread by "immigrants", when the largest outbreaks in the past few years have come from either Americans visiting abroad, or foreign tourists visiting the US?
Define 'exploit'.Replies: @Hunsdon
We could start with the occupation of tax farmer.
My main complaint, as an American, is the insistence on dragging the USA into the constant mess that Israel finds itself in because it chose to exist in a very nasty neighborhood (and, yes, I know this is due as much to goofy fundamentalists as to American Jews). If my cousin chose to buy a house in a slum, I do not expect him to call me and all the other cousins to help protect him during the constant gang wars.
Israeli Jews chose to relocate to a part of the world that is a very nasty slum.Replies: @Hunsdon
It seems to me that we face a question. Either the way the Israelis treat the Palestinians is inherently normal, aboveboard, and nothing to criticize, in which case we are entitled to treat Mexican and other immigrants crossing our Southern border, against our national laws, in entirely the same way, or the way the Israelis treat the Palestinians is deserving of condemnation.
Ad hominem is the last resort of the scoundrel.
The largest recent outbreak of the Measles in the world recently has been the Ukrainian outbreak. Only 31% of Ukrainians had been vaccinated with MMR. Over 100,000 cases in Ukraine.
https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/globalmeaslesoutbreaks.htm
The Measles outbreak in NY is due to orthodox Jews travelling to Israel. Orthodox Jews are among the worst in vaccinations. There have been plenty of battles because Orthodox Jews still want their un-vaccinated brats in schools and other public places.
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/measles.aspx
The Disneyland Measles outbreak, which spread to 6 US states, as well as Mexico and Canada, appears to be from a teenage tourist from New Zealand.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/california-tourist-measles-disneyland_n_5d62da52e4b0b59d25767737?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACNIJYRzydXmKuHYXG5Mr_BLXGVKelgOGDUa4_RXy2KCNI5LqMwBwTz1lC-V46tfqPrega7fsXdBAKAAqAzINbm0Aef-mm3GmDkFDKf7LXdeX3c4-EJM6z0_seLWDkAC5LhxxNlpzNUYDZsve3l6VBu86gp8NXL8yS8D59Sov6Eu
So how do you come to the conclusion that Measles is spread by “immigrants”, when the largest outbreaks in the past few years have come from either Americans visiting abroad, or foreign tourists visiting the US?
How disgusting, Jack D! Such an evil stereotype.
Everyone knows Harvey Weinstein has been trying to lose weight. No need to call attention to it.
It’s your contention that interwar Poland subcontracted tax collection?
The term ‘ad hominem’ does not mean what you fancy it means.
It’s your contention that someone was making an argument about interwar Poland?
Here's a discussion of tax farming in Tsarist Russia:
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Tax+Farming
I don't think you'll find the raw material for your argument there, but, then again, it's just a precis.Replies: @Anon
It may well mean what he fancies it means, just not what you fancy he fancies you fancy it means.
and the Jews - namely the dislike and distrust of Germany. After all,
Poland that for centuries had the world’s highest percentage of the Jewish
people (typically 9-10%), lost roughly 3 million Christians and 3 million
Jews during World War II. In the space of 40 years the Germans committed
3 genocides, (1) In southwest Africa in the early 20th century; (2) In Poland
during WW II - genocide of the Christian population; (3) In Poland during
WW II - genocide of the Jewish population. Mainly now the disagreements
between Poland and worldwide Jewry are about who suffered more at the
hands of the Germans.
In addition to losing one-third of its territory, Germany has been defeated
and humiliated so many times that as hapless as the Germans are, hopefully
they lost taste for resorting to extreme violence. There are only 120 million
Germanics in Europe (incl. 20 million Scandinavians) while there are 240 million
Slavs. The Germanics, in their eternal struggle against the Slavs, never had
a chance. Hopefully, they learned this lesson well. Otherwise they will be
humiliated again. Ultimately it is Europe that is the loser as a result of the
constant quarrels among its inhabitants.Replies: @Anon 2, @IronCurtain
Except that Slavs are not united so there can be 240 or 500 millions of them but only Russians will really count in the end. Czechs will always surrender to comfort, Poles will do something heroic and crazy but ultimately fruitless, southern Slavs will fight each other with abandon.
I was a musical instrument technician-bowed and fretted strings-and I was always amazed how good midpriced Czech violins and cellos were and how good the Czech made Spector basses turned out to be. I play one in our church praise team and it's as good an electric bass as you can buy at any price.
The Russians can't build anything for the consumer market very well but if their military needs it bad enough can get some fairly decent work done. Alcoholism and poor pay were the stated reasons under Soviet rule, but what their excuse is now I have no idea.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D
Unlike blacks, Slavs have high IQ but like blacks, they are not very capable of self government and possess poor judgment. The Czechs are fairly good at precision manufacturing, though, and the Serbs make good military people at the enlisted level.
I was a musical instrument technician-bowed and fretted strings-and I was always amazed how good midpriced Czech violins and cellos were and how good the Czech made Spector basses turned out to be. I play one in our church praise team and it’s as good an electric bass as you can buy at any price.
The Russians can’t build anything for the consumer market very well but if their military needs it bad enough can get some fairly decent work done. Alcoholism and poor pay were the stated reasons under Soviet rule, but what their excuse is now I have no idea.
I was a musical instrument technician-bowed and fretted strings-and I was always amazed how good midpriced Czech violins and cellos were and how good the Czech made Spector basses turned out to be. I play one in our church praise team and it's as good an electric bass as you can buy at any price.
The Russians can't build anything for the consumer market very well but if their military needs it bad enough can get some fairly decent work done. Alcoholism and poor pay were the stated reasons under Soviet rule, but what their excuse is now I have no idea.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D
A Serb shot down a Stealth Fighter.
I was a musical instrument technician-bowed and fretted strings-and I was always amazed how good midpriced Czech violins and cellos were and how good the Czech made Spector basses turned out to be. I play one in our church praise team and it's as good an electric bass as you can buy at any price.
The Russians can't build anything for the consumer market very well but if their military needs it bad enough can get some fairly decent work done. Alcoholism and poor pay were the stated reasons under Soviet rule, but what their excuse is now I have no idea.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D
Alcoholism and poor pay. Some things never change.
Ya know, if we’re talking about public debate in interwar Poland, I kinda think we’re referring to social and economic conditions in … interwar Poland. But, who knows. Maybe Roman Dmowski thought you should deport Jews of generation x for some misdeeds of a subset of Jews from generation x-4. Don’t care for the implications of that line of thinking, myself, but that’s just me.
Here’s a discussion of tax farming in Tsarist Russia:
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Tax+Farming
I don’t think you’ll find the raw material for your argument there, but, then again, it’s just a precis.
No, it doesn’t mean what he fancies it means.
Nice job trying to dodge the observation that race matters with "Muh White Elites."West Civilization for the past centuries can be called a "culture of corruption." I'm talking the 1600s at the latest.Global Elites are well aboard either Americanism (if only from being puppet stooges like the Japan's) or Liberalism. The less degenerate in comparison countries like China still accept Liberal/Post-1400 West tenants.So what they still don't see you as their brother as they gladly rob you and violate your daugter.
You refusing to acknowledge you're not an atomized product of will but do have ties of heritage (aka race) doesn't mean the Muds do. Try actually to go to an authentic Negro majority "neighborhood" or Muslim community (so no Uncle Toms) and pull your Middle Class White Boy "I don't see color" babble with them. Better yet, stay home and let your daughter walk through those areas unaccompanied by males.So do you want me to start posting crime stats and anatomy differences?Jews can pass as Honkies now and then yes.
I'll wait you for to tell me how Detroit has nothing to do with all the Negroes there and its all the Democrats fault. Even though it's been thousands of years and there are still more or less no Negro contributions to civilization.Did you hear about how Negroes were better behaved under segregation?Replies: @PhysicistDave
Anounder wrote to me:
I think the technical term for your fallacy is “anachronism.”
Anounder also wrote:
Hmmm….. Anesthesia. Indoor plumbing. Antibiotics. Electric lighting. The Bill of Rights. Mechanical transportation. Telephones. Supermarkets. Modern dentistry. Beethoven, Debussy, and Gershwin. Ballpoint pens. The Internet.
Did I mention antibiotics and anesthesia?
You want to go back to the 1600s (or earlier), be my guest. But don’t be a hypocrite: honestly forego all the items I just mentioned above.
It means what he means it means, regardless of what you mean to fancy he fancies it to mean– or of his fancies as to your meaning.
Here's a discussion of tax farming in Tsarist Russia:
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Tax+Farming
I don't think you'll find the raw material for your argument there, but, then again, it's just a precis.Replies: @Anon
Well, actually the post was about a very specious reference to wartime Poland; some other guy was talking about interwar Poland, and the people to whom you were responding were talking about neither as far as I can tell.
You have a problem with putting words in other peoples’ mouths.
Anounder also wrote:Hmmm..... Anesthesia. Indoor plumbing. Antibiotics. Electric lighting. The Bill of Rights. Mechanical transportation. Telephones. Supermarkets. Modern dentistry. Beethoven, Debussy, and Gershwin. Ballpoint pens. The Internet.
Did I mention antibiotics and anesthesia?
You want to go back to the 1600s (or earlier), be my guest. But don't be a hypocrite: honestly forego all the items I just mentioned above.Replies: @Anon
Because I use technology from Era X I have to support its cultural outlook?
That is true of the case we are discussing: The common traits of post-1600s Western culture that made possible modern technology are: individualism, free markets, rejection of traditional authority, and, most importantly, the intellectually corrosive power of modern natural science.
There have, of course, been other passing fads in the West since the 1600s: Romanticism, socialism, fascism, and all the other goofy and self-destructive "isms." But, I think I have correctly identified individualism, free markets, the rejection of traditional authority, and the intellectually corrosive power of modern natural science as the enduring features of Western culture since the 1600s, and certainly the features that created modern technology.
And, indeed, when people rant and rave and take a long view of condemning the Western culture of the last four centuries -- whether they are right-wing "neo-reactionaries" or left wing enviro-SJWs -- these are the aspects of Western culture they tend to condemn.
If our friend Anounder (or you yourself if you are not he) meant to condemn some other features of Western culture, it would be nice if he explained what he meant when he wrote:I defend the Enlightenment, the pro-science, pro-freedom, pro-market culture that made possible the technology that you and he are so happy to make use of. My impression is that our friend is one of those who defends the newly popular Counter-Enlightenment, which would erase all that.
In which case, yes, he and you are hypocrites if you make use of the technology made possible by a culture that you condemn. You're just parasites, living off achievements you could not create and that you deride.Replies: @Anon, @Anounder
In Douthat's case, he had, about a dozen years ago, of seeming to almost apologize for what he was advocating. He got better for a while, then began to deteriorate.
See, for example, his dithering over Brett Kavanaugh. That's really not a difficult call if you're not emotionally invested in the outcome, because the accuser produced not one piece of evidence that she'd ever met him. Not an old Polaroid, not a diary entry, and not the testimony of anyone who could be reliably identified as a mutual acquaintance of the two. There wasn't even an argument from circumstance. She didn't live anywhere near him or Mark Judge, did not attend school with them, and did not attend school with Mark Judge's sister. Neither did her brother attend school with them. There were contentions that E.E. Kavanaugh and papa Ralph Blasey had a club membership in common, but she never contended that was the connection and that particular club is members-only and doesn't allow family on the campus. Mark Judge published a memoir of his youth about 15 years ago. Where do you fancy she got his name and Kavanaugh's? Then all four individuals supposedly present when she was 'assaulted' draw a blank about any such gathering and the chap she names as having introduced them produces a statement for the FBI which assists her case not at all. Then, astonishingly the accused produces a 1982 appointment calendar and her name and initials are nowhere to be found on it. Then you add in her conflicting stories over a half-dozen years about the time period and precise circumstances, her manifest lying about ancillary matters, &c. And here we're talking about someone who had been subject to a half-dozen FBI background checks over a period of 28 years. And Ross Douthat can't make a decision.Replies: @MEH 0910
Ann Coulter Retweeted:
https://twitter.com/BuckSexton/status/1169294482757640193
Anon asked me:
Well… if the technology is only made possible by the culture that you condemn and yet you constantly use that technology, yes, you are, at best, a hypocrite.
That is true of the case we are discussing: The common traits of post-1600s Western culture that made possible modern technology are: individualism, free markets, rejection of traditional authority, and, most importantly, the intellectually corrosive power of modern natural science.
There have, of course, been other passing fads in the West since the 1600s: Romanticism, socialism, fascism, and all the other goofy and self-destructive “isms.” But, I think I have correctly identified individualism, free markets, the rejection of traditional authority, and the intellectually corrosive power of modern natural science as the enduring features of Western culture since the 1600s, and certainly the features that created modern technology.
And, indeed, when people rant and rave and take a long view of condemning the Western culture of the last four centuries — whether they are right-wing “neo-reactionaries” or left wing enviro-SJWs — these are the aspects of Western culture they tend to condemn.
If our friend Anounder (or you yourself if you are not he) meant to condemn some other features of Western culture, it would be nice if he explained what he meant when he wrote:
I defend the Enlightenment, the pro-science, pro-freedom, pro-market culture that made possible the technology that you and he are so happy to make use of. My impression is that our friend is one of those who defends the newly popular Counter-Enlightenment, which would erase all that.
In which case, yes, he and you are hypocrites if you make use of the technology made possible by a culture that you condemn. You’re just parasites, living off achievements you could not create and that you deride.
When will you start advocating tranny bathrooms and fags being allowed to spread their diseases?Replies: @PhysicistDave
visited Poland in 2018, 18.4% increase over 2017. I’m sure
similar numbers of Jewish tourists from the U.S. and other
countries visited Poland during the same time period. Visiting
Warsaw one gets the impression that practically overnight Warsaw has
become a multicultural city. In addition to the Jews, there are now
2-3 million Ukrainians working and studying in Poland (by the way,
the Ukrainian president Zelenski who is visiting Warsaw this weekend
in connection with the WW II anniversary looked so tiny next to the
Polish president Duda I thought the photo was photoshopped). One
also sees South Asians delivering food on bicycles. The Israeli
tourists interviewed for the article said they mainly come to Poland
to enjoy the food and do some shopping.
The same Haaretz article, however, also reported complaints from hotel managers
to the effect that the Israeli tourists are arrogant, quarrelsome, leave
garbage in the rooms, and have no respect for others’ property.
I was sharing an elevator at a Warsaw hotel with an Orthodox Jewish
family a couple of years ago. The wife stared at me with what an objective
observer could only interpret as hate. I kept the elevator door open as
the family, incl. their brood, was filing out. Did I get a thank you or
at least a smile? Of course, not.
On the other hand, one Israeli tourist said, “Forget the Holocaust! I come to
Poland to have fun.” Similarly, large numbers of Polish tourists now
visit Israel. Many in the West don’t realize that there are people in
Poland who basically regard Israel as a Polish colony in the Middle East.
After all, Ben-Gurion and Mileikowski (Netanyahu’s father) both grew up
in Warsaw. There were so many people from Poland in the early days of
Israel that Polish was an official language at the Knesset. The Palestinians
don’t say to the Jews “Go back to Russia (or Germany)!” They usually say
“Go back to Poland!” Several years ago when there were many knife attacks
in Israel, a Polish paramilitary group got organized to go to Israel, and, a la
Curtis Sliwa, to defend the Jews from Muslim attacks. That’s another thing
that the Polish and the Jews have in common - neither like the Muslims
very much. Remember Jan Sobieski and September 11, 1683.Replies: @Bies Podkrakowski
God, protect us from the right of return.
Warsaw become multicultural?
I think not yet, but I can use another reason to dislike this place.
That is true of the case we are discussing: The common traits of post-1600s Western culture that made possible modern technology are: individualism, free markets, rejection of traditional authority, and, most importantly, the intellectually corrosive power of modern natural science.
There have, of course, been other passing fads in the West since the 1600s: Romanticism, socialism, fascism, and all the other goofy and self-destructive "isms." But, I think I have correctly identified individualism, free markets, the rejection of traditional authority, and the intellectually corrosive power of modern natural science as the enduring features of Western culture since the 1600s, and certainly the features that created modern technology.
And, indeed, when people rant and rave and take a long view of condemning the Western culture of the last four centuries -- whether they are right-wing "neo-reactionaries" or left wing enviro-SJWs -- these are the aspects of Western culture they tend to condemn.
If our friend Anounder (or you yourself if you are not he) meant to condemn some other features of Western culture, it would be nice if he explained what he meant when he wrote:I defend the Enlightenment, the pro-science, pro-freedom, pro-market culture that made possible the technology that you and he are so happy to make use of. My impression is that our friend is one of those who defends the newly popular Counter-Enlightenment, which would erase all that.
In which case, yes, he and you are hypocrites if you make use of the technology made possible by a culture that you condemn. You're just parasites, living off achievements you could not create and that you deride.Replies: @Anon, @Anounder
Technology is made possible by at least a couple of hundred different cultures. Modern science, for example, is inconceivable without the medieval Catholic origins of the university. Which means we should all be medieval Catholics. OK.
Another culture which produced useful ideas were the Ancient Greeks. From them we get the idea of arguing by logic to the substance of people’s arguments instead of to suspicions and impressions as to people’s feelings.
As it happens, when the Gray Lady was founded in 1851, its first issue contained an article condemning African-Americans who fought back against the Fugitive Slave Act:Well, yeah, those uppity black folks: not accepting the "duties and hold positions which the law had recognized as imposed upon them."
AKA -- slavery.
So, maybe the NYT is consistent indeed: always urging the peons to know their place.
(The Times did become abolitionist later when political expediency made that obligatory.)
Anon[202] wrote to me:
That is simply false: Charles Darwin, Michael Faraday, not to mention the most famous case — Einstein in the Swiss Patent Office.
Historically, universities often have been irrelevant or even actively hostile to the advance of science.
And, in fact, that is more true today than most people realize. “Big Science” first got going in the field in which I did my Ph.D.: high-energy, elementary-particle physics. And the bureaucratization of that field by the government-university complex in the last fifty years has just been devastating. I have observed that entire period: it has not been good. For a prediction of what would happen, by one of the most famous of the “atomic scientists,” see Leo Szilard’s witty satire, The Mark Gable Foundation.
In any case, whatever role Catholicism may or may not have played in the genesis of Western science, it certainly plays no such role today.
On the other hand, the cultural factors I mentioned are still essential to the functioning of science today. Someone who opposes those aspects of culture is anti-science, and for such a person to make use of the fruits of science is indeed hypocritical. Rather like an abolitionist who owns slaves or a teetotaler who gets drunk every weekend.
Well, okay, I can say that science would have happened anyway barring any significant cultural changes in the 17th-20th centuries. Why not? I can certainly give as long a list of important Catholic or communist or [insert ideology here] scientists as you can of people who you somewhat doubtfully claim support your particular ideological hobbyhorse.
Let’s retro this to the 1850s:
The point being of course that facts matter. If one group really is oppressing another, then is it “extremist” to acknowledge that fact?
As it happens, when the Gray Lady was founded in 1851, its first issue contained an article condemning African-Americans who fought back against the Fugitive Slave Act:
Well, yeah, those uppity black folks: not accepting the “duties and hold positions which the law had recognized as imposed upon them.”
AKA — slavery.
So, maybe the NYT is consistent indeed: always urging the peons to know their place.
(The Times did become abolitionist later when political expediency made that obligatory.)
“Hurr durr, it would all have happened anyway.”
Well, okay, I can say that science would have happened anyway barring any significant cultural changes in the 17th-20th centuries. Why not? I can certainly give as long a list of important Catholic or communist or [insert ideology here] scientists as you can of people who you somewhat doubtfully claim support your particular ideological hobbyhorse.
Anon[202] wrote to me:
I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say! Sounds like gibbersih.
The Catholic Church was an impediment to science. When did they finally (sorts) admit Galileo was right?
Science did very badkly in the hard-Cathloic countries (obviously in Spain and also Italy after Galileo). France was better, but France was never quite Roman Catholic, more Gallic Catholic — hence the Revolution.
To this day, by the way, it is still more common to run into Jews and Protestants than Catholics among top-level American scientists; somehow, Catholicism imparts an attitude that just does not fit with top-level scientific work.
As to whatever you were trying to spit out about my hobbyhorse: I do not know any scientist who would deny that a certain individualism and disrespect for authority in integral to top-level scientific research. It’s not an ideology: it is just what science is.
I take it you are not a scientist and do not know many high-level scientists? I am and do. I have, for example, worked for or taken classes from five Nobel laureates — four Jews, one lapsed Mormon, not a surprising ethno-religious mix among top scientists.
That is true of the case we are discussing: The common traits of post-1600s Western culture that made possible modern technology are: individualism, free markets, rejection of traditional authority, and, most importantly, the intellectually corrosive power of modern natural science.
There have, of course, been other passing fads in the West since the 1600s: Romanticism, socialism, fascism, and all the other goofy and self-destructive "isms." But, I think I have correctly identified individualism, free markets, the rejection of traditional authority, and the intellectually corrosive power of modern natural science as the enduring features of Western culture since the 1600s, and certainly the features that created modern technology.
And, indeed, when people rant and rave and take a long view of condemning the Western culture of the last four centuries -- whether they are right-wing "neo-reactionaries" or left wing enviro-SJWs -- these are the aspects of Western culture they tend to condemn.
If our friend Anounder (or you yourself if you are not he) meant to condemn some other features of Western culture, it would be nice if he explained what he meant when he wrote:I defend the Enlightenment, the pro-science, pro-freedom, pro-market culture that made possible the technology that you and he are so happy to make use of. My impression is that our friend is one of those who defends the newly popular Counter-Enlightenment, which would erase all that.
In which case, yes, he and you are hypocrites if you make use of the technology made possible by a culture that you condemn. You're just parasites, living off achievements you could not create and that you deride.Replies: @Anon, @Anounder
Yawn. Just more “look at my neat toys” twaddle common amomg autist/nerds/Jews. With some more Anglo/Protestant/Jewish yapping about free markets muh freedom muh science muh democracy. Your obviously too autistic/Jewish/Anglo/Prot to see what I’m talking about. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a libertarian either.
When will you start advocating tranny bathrooms and fags being allowed to spread their diseases?
You can hate whomever you wish. But don't expect us to take you seriously.
And, I did omit the most obvious reason that sincere Catholics are so rarely high-level scientists: it is kinda hard to believe that the wine and the wafer are really blood and flesh and also be a competent scientist! Like really, really hard.
Just sayin.'
But, you love the Roman Pedophile Church all you want: the rest of us know it for what it is.
The Catholic Church was an impediment to science. When did they finally (sorts) admit Galileo was right?
Science did very badkly in the hard-Cathloic countries (obviously in Spain and also Italy after Galileo). France was better, but France was never quite Roman Catholic, more Gallic Catholic -- hence the Revolution.
To this day, by the way, it is still more common to run into Jews and Protestants than Catholics among top-level American scientists; somehow, Catholicism imparts an attitude that just does not fit with top-level scientific work.
As to whatever you were trying to spit out about my hobbyhorse: I do not know any scientist who would deny that a certain individualism and disrespect for authority in integral to top-level scientific research. It's not an ideology: it is just what science is.
I take it you are not a scientist and do not know many high-level scientists? I am and do. I have, for example, worked for or taken classes from five Nobel laureates -- four Jews, one lapsed Mormon, not a surprising ethno-religious mix among top scientists.Replies: @Anounder
>muh galileo
https://historyforatheists.com/2019/08/aron-ra-gets-everything-wrong/
https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=CBB2A2F8A10BCAA56C85558720816BFB
You could try reading a non-polemic by someone who’s credibly looked into Galileo’s actions instead of yapping the same Protestant to New Athiest propaganda. And not make a big deal of the impotent, sexualized, degenerate, Catholic Church doing publicity stunts (also called cucking).
Then again, I might be asking too much from an apparent philistine (Prots and their descandants, nerds, and Jews all share an apathy to hostility for studying anything that’s not immediately helpful to their gain in wealth, status, women or aid their desire to force nature in line with their will-to-power).
Now, I realize that house arrest is not as bad as, say, burning at the stake! They did do that to Bruno, but no doubt Galileo was too famous -- it would have been bad PR for the Church.
But what they did to Galileo was certainly an attempt to suppress freedom of speech and, indeed, to suprress the truth.
And, I am also aware that apologists for the Church maintain that Galileo's main crime was not Copernicanism but simply that he challenged the authority of the Church.
Absolutely!
And, this is the main split between you and me. I think anyone who defends the right of the Church to impose its authority on matters of truth trhough threats of physical punishment is an evil person.
And, you no doubt think that proves I am an Anglo/.Jew/Prot/atheist or whatever you said.
And you're right.
The battle lines are drawn. You believe your side is entitled to use physical violence to impose your views on the rest of us. And we believe we have the right to physically defend ourselves.
And there are more of us, a lot more of us, especially considering that very few nominal Catholics are any longer on your side.
So, bring it on! If you really insist on physically fighting the rest of the human race, you will find that the human race will be forced to physically annihilate you in simple self-defense.
Somehow, I am pretty sure that you Old Catholics are all talk and no action. Now that you have lost political power, you are just pathetic paper tigers.
When will you start advocating tranny bathrooms and fags being allowed to spread their diseases?Replies: @PhysicistDave
Anunder wrote to me:
So, you hate people who are “autistic/Jewish/Anglo/Prot”? I trust you realize that those are most of your fellow Americans?
You can hate whomever you wish. But don’t expect us to take you seriously.
And, I did omit the most obvious reason that sincere Catholics are so rarely high-level scientists: it is kinda hard to believe that the wine and the wafer are really blood and flesh and also be a competent scientist! Like really, really hard.
Just sayin.’
But, you love the Roman Pedophile Church all you want: the rest of us know it for what it is.
Protestants are traditionally more literate than Catholics due to the importance of bible study among them. They also have less respect for tradition and established authority, since the Reformation involved rebellion against both. So you would expect Protestantism to produce more intellectuals and more innovative thinkers than Catholicism.
However, this lack of respect for tradition has a huge downside, which should be apparent. Most of the problems people complain about on this website would never have become problems if Protestants had more respect for the customs of their ancestors.
So, Darwin and Faraday. That’s a good point, I use technology invented by Darwin every day and therefore by the Completely Random Principle must believe in all Enlightenment approaches to society. Oh wait, I don’t.
I do actually use technology descended from Faraday’s work, obviously, which was only made possible by Enlightenment theories about social organization because … because … because … hmmm, not sure where this is going.
Meanwhile “PhysicistDave” owes nothing whatsoever to the idea of the university because he never went to college, has no degree, and taught himself advanced physics from the library in his mother’s basement. Wait, that didn’t happen either?
Anounder wrote to me:
Look: it is not in dispute that the Church subjected Galileo to house arrest and ordered him not to assert the truth of the heliocentric system.
Now, I realize that house arrest is not as bad as, say, burning at the stake! They did do that to Bruno, but no doubt Galileo was too famous — it would have been bad PR for the Church.
But what they did to Galileo was certainly an attempt to suppress freedom of speech and, indeed, to suprress the truth.
And, I am also aware that apologists for the Church maintain that Galileo’s main crime was not Copernicanism but simply that he challenged the authority of the Church.
Absolutely!
And, this is the main split between you and me. I think anyone who defends the right of the Church to impose its authority on matters of truth trhough threats of physical punishment is an evil person.
And, you no doubt think that proves I am an Anglo/.Jew/Prot/atheist or whatever you said.
And you’re right.
The battle lines are drawn. You believe your side is entitled to use physical violence to impose your views on the rest of us. And we believe we have the right to physically defend ourselves.
And there are more of us, a lot more of us, especially considering that very few nominal Catholics are any longer on your side.
So, bring it on! If you really insist on physically fighting the rest of the human race, you will find that the human race will be forced to physically annihilate you in simple self-defense.
Somehow, I am pretty sure that you Old Catholics are all talk and no action. Now that you have lost political power, you are just pathetic paper tigers.