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Boko Haram V. Rotherham: Awareness Raising V. Awareness Lowering
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Back in April, the Islamic Boko Haram organization in the backwoods of Nigeria kidnapped 276 local black Christian schoolgirls and threatened to sell them as wives and/or sex slaves. This became a vast global story with the great and good all over the world weighing in to demonstrate their concern.

So far all this awareness raising hasn’t, actually, helped — some girls subsequently escaped, but 217 are still unaccounted for. But that’s not the point, the point is that Awareness Was Raised, and, more importantly, that numerous celebrities were seen engaging in Raising Awareness so that your awareness of their awareness has been raised.

In contrast, for many years in England, Pakistani pimps have been luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery; but the English Establishment — police, political, and media — responded with a long Awareness Lowering campaign. In the first decade of the 21st Century, those who protested were ignored, censored, or sent to diversity sensitivity training. The most prominent politician to take up the case a decade ago, Nick Griffin of the BNP, was put on trial twice for inciting racial hatred (but juries did not convict him).

Commenter JamestheFin writes:

… As for the Pakistani Muslims themselves, well…look, I like Steve Sailer quite a bit when it comes to issues of race, IQ, and demographics but his analysis of Islamic ideology is quite lacking. This really is one of those cases where someone like Timothy Furnish or Robert Spencer>Steve Sailer. Why? Because Sex Slavery is explicitly sanctioned in the Quran.

Don’t believe me? Take it from the Quran;

Quran 4:24 Al-Nisa(Women): And also forbidden to you are all married women (muhsanat) except those women whom your right hands have come to possess (as a result of war). This is Allah’s decree and it is binding upon you.”

And in case you don’t think the Quran’s rulings are applicable in the present day, here’s very popular and oft cited Pakistani jurist/theologian Abul A’la Maududi (died 1979) talking about his ideal state (you might not have heard of him, his Jaamati followers in the UK Islamic Mission are the largest component of the Muslim Council of Britain):

“Many misunderstandings seem to persist about the right to have sexual relations with one’s slave-girls. It is pertinent to call attention to the following regulations of Islam:

“Islam does not permit soldiers of the Islamic army to have sexual relations with women they capture in war. Islamic Law requires that such women should first be handed over to the government, which then has the right to decide what should be done with them. It may either set them free unconditionally, release them on payment of ransom, exchange them for Muslim prisoners of war held by the enemy or distribute them among the soldiers. A soldier may have sexual relations only with that woman who has been entrusted to him by the government.”

http://www.tafheem.net

I would be willing to bet that most, if not all of those Pakistani Muslims involved in these crimes had heard Maududi’s teachings (& many others) in one form or another. Even if they weren’t aware of Maududi in some way, there are plenty of other prominent and influential Muslim religious leader who proclaim something similar like the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdul-Aziz ibn Abdullah Al-ash Shayekh who believes that marrying and then having sex with 10 year olds is acceptable in Islam….10 year olds, Dude…Of course, there’s also prominent Saudi scholar Saleh Al-Fawzan who has declared that slavery is very much a part of Islam and those who proclaim otherwise really have no basis for their claims…

Just sayin’…By their fruits shall ye know them…

Feminist Susan Brownmiller famously said in 1975 that rape is not a crime of eroticism but of power. Of course, it’s much more complicated than that, but Brownmiller did have a point.

Of course, Feminism Inc. has been remarkably out to lunch for the last decade on the crisis of white Christian girls being lured into sexual slavery by Muslim pimps in England.

 
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  1. OT Steve, but Nigel Farage was on Hannity last night and he’s on Cavuto today.

    This is the first time I’ve seen European immigration patriots being embraced by the American FoxNews Conservative Inc. machine. It seems really important, both to legitimize these movements and give American restrictionists hope.

  2. “Of course, Feminism Inc. has been remarkably out to lunch for the last decade on the crisis of white Christian girls being lured into sexual slavery by Muslim pimps in England.”

    British feminists are some of the biggest supporters of increased immigration to Great Britain from Pakistan, so of course they are pro-Pakistani pimps.

    I have always said that feminists are not anti-men, they are only anti-White men. They could care less about sexual prostitution rings of female minors as long as the pimps are not White males.

    Remember when feminists were raging over Eminem’s songs about violence towards women, how come feminists were not angry when N.W.A for example were making songs about violence towards women ?

    Eminem was not the first rapper in history to record songs about violently hurting women, but he was the rapper who got the most press for it. And he just so happens to be one of the few Whites in Hip Hop. Coincidence ? I think not.

    • Replies: @Hepp
    NWA and Eminem were like 15 years apart, which is a lifetime in PC time.
  3. Never heard of this Susan Brownmiller before. The fraction of feminists who are Jews appears to be approaching singularity.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    Anyone who never heard of Brownmiller hasn't earned the right to speak about 2nd wave feminism. Yes, many Jews but the biggest name was Kate Millett and don't forget Ti-Grace Atkinson, and Germaine Greer.

    Brownmiller said that rape was the way that ALL men kept ALL women subjugated. This is like saying that hitting is the way that ALL mothers keep ALL children subjugated. It's really stupid. If all Brownie had said was that rape is power, then she would have been right. But she went well beyond that. Like a lot of feminists, I think she was borderline. (Millett and Firestone were plumb psycho.)
    , @SFG
    Why do you think there's so much intermarriage?
    , @Anon
    Isn't it more that of all feminists few are Jewish women but all of Jewish women most are feminists.
  4. Of course, Feminism Inc. has been remarkably out to lunch for the last decade on the crisis of white Christian girls being lured into sexual slavery by Muslim pimps in England.

    No, because Feminism, Inc. was derived from domestic arguments (manifest everywhere) and bourgeois discontents. What you have here is crime, and horrendous and exotic crime at that. This may interest individual feminists in a personal capacity, but unless it’s a good fit with their social narrative, it does not interest them in their capacity as members of a type.

    I give you, as an example, Prof. Sarah Deutsch of Duke University, credentialed scholar in American social history and purveyor of social fictions.

    http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2007/05/deutsch-files.html

    I doubt it is all that self-conscious on her part, it’s just that she cannot tell the difference anymore between images of which fictions are made and flesh-and-blood human beings, or the images are ‘real’ and the people are not. So, Pakistani sex traffickers are something referred to parenthetically in the course of discussing other things. The real threat is Lax players.

  5. The fraction of feminists who are Jews appears to be approaching singularity.

    I guess Jewish men were very oppressive.

  6. Sanction has to be one of the worst words in the English language. Its two meanings are literally the opposite of each other. Is there a term in grammar for a word or phrase that can have the opposite meaning of itself? Are there other words out there like this?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Cleave means cut apart (as with a meat cleaver) and come together (from the King James Bible: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.")
    , @Anonymous

    Are there other words out there like this?
     
    The term is auto-antonym and other examples are

    Let: common meaning allow but legal meaning to prevent, e.g., without let or hindrance;
    Cleave - to chop apart or bind together ( a man should cleave to his wife)
    Overlook-obvious
    , @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Yes.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-antonym
    You're welcome.

    There's an Arabic word for this concept (singular: "didd", plural: "addad"). So auto-antonyms must be relatively common in Arabic. Diddn't know that.
  7. Remember when feminists were raging over Eminem’s songs about violence towards women, how come feminists were not angry when N.W.A for example were making songs about violence towards women ?

    Not really. Marshall Mathers was a married man having marital problems. He’s a recognizable enemy. Eazy-E was no one you know.

  8. @DPG
    Sanction has to be one of the worst words in the English language. Its two meanings are literally the opposite of each other. Is there a term in grammar for a word or phrase that can have the opposite meaning of itself? Are there other words out there like this?

    Cleave means cut apart (as with a meat cleaver) and come together (from the King James Bible: “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”)

    • Replies: @Hard Line Realist
    Well, except that you have to use "cleave unto" when you intend that sense.

    If someone reported that he cleaved his wife, I suspect most people would think he cut her in two.
    , @Robard
    Re the two meanings of "cleave" - they probably derive from two morphologically similar but distinct words. In Afrikaans the verb "kleef" means "stick together" and "kloof" means "split apart".
  9. A bit OT, but this is another example of “intersectionality” — i.e., which victim group gets to beat on which other victim group.

    Or, as I like to think of this case,

    WWT: a fight breaks out in the War Room.

    The video is from Dyke March NYC 2012

  10. Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    This person is one of these “rules lawyers” who think he’s all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. In other words: those rapists raped for the same reasons blacks rape. They don’t do it because they really think it’s a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They do it because they are psychopaths that don’t care about anyone but close kin and have a higher sex drive.

    Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in “slavery”, why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?

    • Replies: @22pp22
    Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet. At this moment of shame for your religion, one would expect some contrition room the Muslim community. Instead, you tell us how much we should respect you. I don't respect you and wish you had never come to live in the West.
    , @22pp22
    Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet. At this moment of shame for your religion, one would expect some contrition room the Muslim community. Instead, you tell us how much we should respect you. I don't respect you.
    , @Robinson
    "This person is one of these “rules lawyers” who think he’s all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. "

    I read this as "True, there is nothing redeeming about the Quran, but no one pays attention to it anyway." It would be nice if that were really the case. I bet many beheaders and amateur pilots find it quite inspiring.
    , @Retired
    "why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?"
    The operative word here is "did"

    "Just sayin’…By their fruits shall ye know them…" Well said

    One of the questions of the century is: "Where are all the moderate muslims?" The ones in the "Coexist" bumpersticker?

    , @anon
    "Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. "

    6. Consummated at 9. He's still your prophet?
    , @HA
    "Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in “slavery”, why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?"

    They latter two groups of slavers met with much more resistance. There was also that thing called the Civil War though both sides had banned much of what was once slavery by the time that came along.

    Not only that, both groups of slavers had ample help from Muslims.

    But the topic here is sex slavery, not slavery in general. I do not know of any Christian sect that permitted sex slavery per se. The same cannot be said for those who try to argue against the practice from a Koranic perspective.

    As such, your anger against those who point out these things is misplaced, and would be better directed elsewhere.

    , @TWS
    If 'NOBODY' engaged in it we wouldn't be having this conversation would we? We wouldn't be constantly hearing about 'maids' in Muslim countries being held in chains in the basement and beaten/raped. We wouldn't see them exporting their favorite pastime to the West.

    Look western countries used to keep slaves but most voluntarily gave them up. Only one fought a war over it over one hundred and fifty years ago. The West is civilized that's why goat roping, baby raping, child abusing Muslims love it here, flush toilets and governments too cowed to mention it lest they be seen as 'anti-Muslim'. They already act like Dhimmi. Just enjoy it and be happy quit complaining when we notice that your rhetoric and religious instruction matches your actions. It makes you look like sore winners. You've already got Londonstan just enjoy it.

    Islam is the main reason you still engage in slavery. Your religious book and writing encourage it and modern not ancient but modern Muslim teachers are quoted as saying that taking women by conquest is lawful and fully in line with the Koran.

    If you want something different become Christian or don't because it looks to me like you'll be able to rape all the little boys and girls you want in the future Londonstan.
  11. I have always said that feminists are not anti-men, they are only anti-White men. They could care less about sexual prostitution rings of female minors as long as the pimps are not White males.

    Some feminists think prostitution, especially in the West, is legitimate work. That it is not exploitation. That women should be free to trade sexual favors for money regardless of context.

    They also seem to revel in demolishing Christian morality more than protecting vulnerable women.

    In this, they seem to find occasional common cause with a segment of libertarian men who also consider Christian morality a shackle.

    Personally, I find this odd, because libertarianism seems to work best when people are both freedom-loving and religiously moral — a condition best obtained in Christian societies.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    That would be prostitution engaged in by adult women with some choices, not by 15 year olds more or less owned by pimps. That argument may be right or wrong, but at least be clear what is and isn't being argued for.
  12. Aside from the distinct phenomenon of Islamic sexual exploitation of white girls in England, blacks in England (who may or may not be Moslem) have their own rape culture that appears to hit white women much more than in the United States.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/gang-rape-is-it-a-race-issue-1711381.html

  13. Are there other words out there like this?

    table
    transitive verb

    : to decide not to discuss (something)

    : to formally present (something) for discussion

    • Replies: @NOTA
    I think that's largely a British vs American usage distinction, though.
  14. @Steve Sailer
    Cleave means cut apart (as with a meat cleaver) and come together (from the King James Bible: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.")

    Well, except that you have to use “cleave unto” when you intend that sense.

    If someone reported that he cleaved his wife, I suspect most people would think he cut her in two.

  15. It’s interesting how strong feminism has become, especially dominating atheist communities like A+ (note they really dislike Dawkins, Michael Shermer, Sam Harris, because they are not sufficiently feminist). But then I remember how feminists totally gave Bill Clinton, John Edwards, JFK, MLK, a pass, how feminism totally gives way to race (eg, OJ trial) when they collide, and how women really don’t like beta males. Among the progressive priorities, feminism seems a very strange tactic, ultimately not very serious. I don’t know how all those progressive feminists can spend all day obsessing over micro-aggressions but then, when a big issue about single-payer health care or race comes up, just sweep it all away, because they do seem sincerely distraught day-to-day in an OCD way.

  16. @DPG
    Sanction has to be one of the worst words in the English language. Its two meanings are literally the opposite of each other. Is there a term in grammar for a word or phrase that can have the opposite meaning of itself? Are there other words out there like this?

    Are there other words out there like this?

    The term is auto-antonym and other examples are

    Let: common meaning allow but legal meaning to prevent, e.g., without let or hindrance;
    Cleave – to chop apart or bind together ( a man should cleave to his wife)
    Overlook-obvious

  17. “Is there a term in grammar for a word or phrase that can have the opposite meaning of itself?”

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-antonym

  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I was browsing the internet when the last big Muslim rape scandal appeared a couple years ago. In Oxford, I believe.

    When I searched for pages discussing Muslim law on “temporary” marriages [e.g. “I hereby marry you for two hours for $50”] I found one of those delightful “Ask your Imam” websites where good, decent, Sharia-law-abiding boys and girls get their priests to pasken on legal issues.

    One writer was a Paki man living in England who wanted to know the rules regarding a “temporary marriage” to an infidel English girl.

    In his response, the mullah/imam explained that temporary marriages to young infidel girls were OK. But if the girl was a virgin you had to ask her father first.

    The boy explained that the girl had no father in the home, and the imam/mullah paskened that, in that case, he could just temporarily marry her like he would any non-virgin. No permission required.

    So if she is homeless, in care, an orphan, or otherwise outside of her rather’s direct control, just get her to say the magic words: “I marry you for ____ minutes/hours/days for ___ dollars/beers/joints” and–Bingo!–you are in like Flynn.

    Fornicating with English girls over age 10-12 or so is extremely convenient for Muslim men. And it is all in accordance with the highest, most moral Sharia traditions.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    I believe temporary marriages (Nikah mut'ah) are a Shia thing :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%E2%80%98ah

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22354201
    , @HA
    "Fornicating with English girls over age 10-12 or so is extremely convenient for Muslim men. And it is all in accordance with the highest, most moral Sharia traditions."

    Westerners snicker at Osama bin Laden's porn stash, or the 9/11 terrorists' and the Fort Hood shooter's visits to strip clubs, and regard such activities as a mark of hypocrisy for those pretending to be devout, but given Islam's views on sex slavery, I do not see that any of those activities are forbidden when it comes to kaffir women (though it might take a little effort to find an imam who can interpret the verses in the desired way).
  19. BBC in 2004 “Edge of the City, a documentary on Bradford’s social services, has been screened by Channel 4 after being dropped in May after police warned it could inflame racial tensions at local election time. […] So given the unprecedented access to Bradford social services, did the filmmakers use it responsibly?
    Or did they produce a film that, as its critics would have it, provided ammunition to racists?”

    The local and national media, the local and national government, and the police . Working class whites are completely helpless.

  20. Dahlia says:

    The Industrial-sized scale of this is incredible and the barbarism… What a historical moment we’re living in: the moment the first world realizes exactly what’s been going on and how correct were Enoch Powell (and Lawrence Auster).

    I am struck by some of the Labor politicians, emotionally resigned in the face of this overwhelming reality, even speaking about their liberalism in the past tense or as if strong liberalism is from a previous era:

    Denis MacShane: “Perhaps yes, as a true Guardian reader, and liberal leftie, I suppose I didn’t want to raise that too hard.”
    “I think there was a culture of not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat if I may put it like that.”

    Ann Cryer: “Ken [Livingston] was convinced I had got it all wrong. He was so politically correct, he was off this planet at that time, was Ken.”

    It’s like this is to the Left what Germany’s WWII defeat was to the Right. Hyperbole? I don’t know. The sheer percentage of the people involved in something so horrible is staggering. What’s more, it’s not just Rotherham, or even England, but everywhere that imports these Muslims. According to Rebecca Hamilton at Patheos:

    “I’ve been reading for months about ISIS in Iraq and Syria and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, kidnapping Christian girls, and raping them and selling them into sex trafficking. Boko Haram kidnapped almost 300 school girls for the express purpose of selling them into sex slavery.

    In other news, we have the Sidney gang rapes of Australian girls by Australian nationals of Lebanese Muslim descent, and the gang rapes in Holland by men of Turkish and Moroccan descent.

    Does anybody see a pattern here?”

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/publiccatholic/2014/09/rotherham-and-the-cowardly-act-of-offering-up-young-girls-to-the-dragon-of-misogyny/#ixzz3CI2oORjV

    I’d love to know what Peter Frost and John Derbyshire are thinking right now.

  21. One problem with the analogy is that while Boko Haram and the Pakistani rapists both use rape as a weapon and are both Muslim, they really have more in common with other criminal groups in their own regions who are of other religions than they do with each other.

    The Pakistani “rape culture” in the UK is very similar to a similar pattern of endemic rape, sexual assault, groping, etc found across northern and central India, expect that there the criminals are Hindus. There are major problems with rape gangs in north Indian Hindu villages, sometimes led by high caste people with the impunity to do whatever they want. The pattern of local youths using social pressure and a sense of immunity from community retaliation and police to keep abusing victims in their own community is very similar.

    Boko Haram’s young men armed with light weapons rampaging around the countryside kidnapping women and massacring men is also quite similar to what happens in any number of West and Central African civil wars. The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) behaves in a way not dissimilar to Boko Haram, and there is nothing Muslim about the LRA.

    Of course, a sensible immigration policy would keep both of these people out of Western countries . . .

  22. Muslim pimps. Isn’t that redundant?

  23. Feminism has never really been interested in protecting women from rape. It is more interested in using accusations of rape as a tool against “the Patriarchy”. Interestingly enough, it is members of the so-called Patriarchy – conservative men with wives, daughters, and sisters – who do more to protect women from rape than anyone else.

  24. @gu
    Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    This person is one of these "rules lawyers" who think he's all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. In other words: those rapists raped for the same reasons blacks rape. They don't do it because they really think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They do it because they are psychopaths that don't care about anyone but close kin and have a higher sex drive.

    Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in "slavery", why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?

    Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet. At this moment of shame for your religion, one would expect some contrition room the Muslim community. Instead, you tell us how much we should respect you. I don’t respect you and wish you had never come to live in the West.

    • Replies: @gu
    "Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet"

    Proof by assertion.

    "At this moment of shame for your religion"

    .......WHAT

    How on earth do you make yourself believe that this makes sense?

    Listen to yourself: you literally take a case of a bunch of lowlifes engaging in rape and SOMEHOW relate this to the religion they believe in.

    Why is it always related to their professed religion whenever one of these thugs does something wrong? When Joseph Fritzl got arrested for keeping that rape cave or that pedo ring in Belgium (Marc Dutroux) came up, NOBOD related it thus.

    You are mentally ill.

    "one would expect some contrition room the Muslim community."

    I have no idea what this means. But I'm not going to cut myself because a bunch of Pakistani did that. They're filth. So what? Why would I have to apologize?

    " Instead, you tell us how much we should respect you."

    No not really. I just think it's pathetic to bring up religion when most Muslims believe that raping children is sinful, despite your hostile, biased interpretation of Islam. Pakistani rape for the same reason why other, high frequency rapist people rape. Black people rape frequently as well. I don't see you indicting Protestant Christianity.
  25. @gu
    Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    This person is one of these "rules lawyers" who think he's all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. In other words: those rapists raped for the same reasons blacks rape. They don't do it because they really think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They do it because they are psychopaths that don't care about anyone but close kin and have a higher sex drive.

    Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in "slavery", why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?

    Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet. At this moment of shame for your religion, one would expect some contrition room the Muslim community. Instead, you tell us how much we should respect you. I don’t respect you.

  26. My daughter got sent home from school in Rotherham for saying something racist.

    “No.”

    • Replies: @TWS
    That right there is the thread winner.
  27. Steve, OT but you friend from Chechnya is wearing a new hat and is publicly defending Putin over some ISIS threat video.

  28. Feminist Susan Brownmiller famously said in 1975 that rape is not a crime of eroticism but of power. Of course, it’s much more complicated than that, but Brownmiller did have a point.

    It’s really a two-part equation. Sexual desire provides the motivation for rape; power gives one the ability to rape.

  29. There might be another reason why one crime was righteously denounced around the globe, while the other was covered up.

    Notice that in the Boko Haram case, the victims were black, and hence fit nicely into the West’s “official victim” category.

    In the Rotherham case, the victims were white, and hence officially considered oppressors. The criminals were non-white, and therefore considered official victims of the aforementioned white oppressors.

    In fact, the Rotherham criminals were also non-Western and non-Christian, making them a veritable bonanza of politically-correct victimhood: not even “Twofers,” but “Threefers!”

    Victimizing black people is always wrong. Victimizing white people, well, it depends on who’s doing it. That’s what passes for justice now in the West.

    • Replies: @Ross

    Victimizing black people is always wrong. Victimizing white people, well
     
    You say that but back in 2005 there were riots between black and "Asian" youths in Birmingham England. At the time the spark was reported to be false rumours of a group of Asian men raping a young black girl in the back of a shop.

    At the time it was dismissed as being a baseless lie, but even if the specific allegation against the particular businessman were probably false and irresponsible the accusation does seem to be very close to what we know occurred in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and many other cities. That makes me wonder if there was a germ of truth in the rumour.
  30. “Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/30/rotherham-girls-could-have-been-spared-ann-cryer

    “she asked a friend, a Muslim councillor of Pakistani heritage, to approach the elders at the mosque with a list of 35 names and addresses of the alleged perpetrators. “He said to the imams, ‘Ann Cryer would like you to go around to these families and explain that this behaviour is totally un-Islamic.’ But the upshot was that the elders allegedly said, ‘Go back to Ann Cryer and tell her it’s nothing to do with us.’ ””

    Ann Cryer is (for a Labour MP) not a bad egg. But even she spends more paragraphs worrying about how “bad people” ( i.e. BNP/tabloid press) might respond, than worrying about the abuse.

    Note also the latest Stockholm Syndrome – a white British woman telling Muslim elders and imams what Islam is and isn’t. We’ve had this from Blair (over 7/7 bombings) and from Cameron (over beheading soldiers and flying out to Syria to fight with ISIS). These people are all apparently Islamic scholars and can pronounce on what’s haram and what’s halal – without even being Muslims !

    • Replies: @HA
    "But even she spends more paragraphs worrying about how “bad people” ( i.e. BNP/tabloid press) might respond, than worrying about the abuse."


    Spencer has frequently noted that when a story like this breaks, the primary reaction of the Muslim spokes-community seems to be precisely what the above statement describes -- rallying the troops around the claim that it is the Muslims who are victims, simply because of what others might do to them because of the negative press.

    "Why, oh why, does everything always happen to us?"

    They would do well to answer that question by pointing to something other than Islamophobia.

  31. @gu
    Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    This person is one of these "rules lawyers" who think he's all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. In other words: those rapists raped for the same reasons blacks rape. They don't do it because they really think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They do it because they are psychopaths that don't care about anyone but close kin and have a higher sex drive.

    Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in "slavery", why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?

    “This person is one of these “rules lawyers” who think he’s all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. “

    I read this as “True, there is nothing redeeming about the Quran, but no one pays attention to it anyway.” It would be nice if that were really the case. I bet many beheaders and amateur pilots find it quite inspiring.

    • Replies: @gu
    People don't think that rape is acceptable as a result of Islam, that's for sure.

    I spoke to a Kurd around NYE 2012. He said that he would rape some random women if the world were to end. I was kind of shocked and couldn't believe what he said.

    You know what he DIDN'T say? "Man, who cares, Allah thinks rape is ok anyways."

    I knew guys essentially coercing a girl to give another guy a handjob for his birthday. He did this because he was a bonafide psychopath, not because he believed it was halal to do. (the same guy was also a thief and a drug user)

    So please, spare me your filth.
  32. I’m afraid those girls as kidnapped by Boko are gone for good.

    Either already married to older Muslim men or sold as sex slaves.

    They are NEVER coming home.

  33. @Borachio
    There might be another reason why one crime was righteously denounced around the globe, while the other was covered up.

    Notice that in the Boko Haram case, the victims were black, and hence fit nicely into the West's "official victim" category.

    In the Rotherham case, the victims were white, and hence officially considered oppressors. The criminals were non-white, and therefore considered official victims of the aforementioned white oppressors.

    In fact, the Rotherham criminals were also non-Western and non-Christian, making them a veritable bonanza of politically-correct victimhood: not even "Twofers," but "Threefers!"

    Victimizing black people is always wrong. Victimizing white people, well, it depends on who's doing it. That's what passes for justice now in the West.

    Victimizing black people is always wrong. Victimizing white people, well

    You say that but back in 2005 there were riots between black and “Asian” youths in Birmingham England. At the time the spark was reported to be false rumours of a group of Asian men raping a young black girl in the back of a shop.

    At the time it was dismissed as being a baseless lie, but even if the specific allegation against the particular businessman were probably false and irresponsible the accusation does seem to be very close to what we know occurred in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and many other cities. That makes me wonder if there was a germ of truth in the rumour.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There's a germ of truth in most things.
  34. @Anonymous
    I was browsing the internet when the last big Muslim rape scandal appeared a couple years ago. In Oxford, I believe.

    When I searched for pages discussing Muslim law on "temporary" marriages [e.g. "I hereby marry you for two hours for $50"] I found one of those delightful "Ask your Imam" websites where good, decent, Sharia-law-abiding boys and girls get their priests to pasken on legal issues.

    One writer was a Paki man living in England who wanted to know the rules regarding a "temporary marriage" to an infidel English girl.

    In his response, the mullah/imam explained that temporary marriages to young infidel girls were OK. But if the girl was a virgin you had to ask her father first.

    The boy explained that the girl had no father in the home, and the imam/mullah paskened that, in that case, he could just temporarily marry her like he would any non-virgin. No permission required.

    So if she is homeless, in care, an orphan, or otherwise outside of her rather's direct control, just get her to say the magic words: "I marry you for ____ minutes/hours/days for ___ dollars/beers/joints" and--Bingo!--you are in like Flynn.

    Fornicating with English girls over age 10-12 or so is extremely convenient for Muslim men. And it is all in accordance with the highest, most moral Sharia traditions.

    I believe temporary marriages (Nikah mut’ah) are a Shia thing :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%E2%80%98ah

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22354201

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Anonymous Nephew:

    I believe temporary marriages (Nikah mut’ah) are a Shia thing.
     
    You are correct. The Sunni have their own flavor of temporary marriage called "Nikah misyar" or [ahem] "traveler's marriage".
  35. Rape is not a sexual crime. It is not sexual! Rape is a violent crime…it’s a violent crime, where you cum at the end. It’s no different than if you robbed a liquor store… and then came.

    –Adam Carolla

    • Replies: @polynikes
    I'm surprised Carolla doesn't get a little more run here. He's comic who grew up poor in LA to welfare, hippy parents. He sees through the liberal SoCal bullshit pretty well.

    A bit boorish at times, but he can be geniunely funny. I love the quote you posted. I've always remembered it, because it cuts through the bullshit so well.
  36. Matt Drudge -“Rotherham? … but Joan Rivers!”

  37. @gu
    Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    This person is one of these "rules lawyers" who think he's all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. In other words: those rapists raped for the same reasons blacks rape. They don't do it because they really think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They do it because they are psychopaths that don't care about anyone but close kin and have a higher sex drive.

    Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in "slavery", why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?

    “why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?”
    The operative word here is “did

    “Just sayin’…By their fruits shall ye know them…” Well said

    One of the questions of the century is: “Where are all the moderate muslims?” The ones in the “Coexist” bumpersticker?

    • Replies: @gu
    "The operative word here is “did”"

    Irrelevant. Point is, since a slaving people owned slaves even without the express sanction of God, it is proof positive that "They engaged in slavery, MUST BE ISLAM" is a silly argument.

    Moderate Muslims are everywhere. You just choose to ignore their existence. Thousands of flights land safely every day and you don't hear about that either.
  38. “Muslim pimps. Isn’t that redundant?”

    A lot of African American males look up to pimp culture and aspire to be pimps when they grow up. No wonder Islam is the fastest growing religion in the African American community.

    Notice that Black rappers often rap about pimping.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ4Nl20LP40

  39. @Twinkie

    I have always said that feminists are not anti-men, they are only anti-White men. They could care less about sexual prostitution rings of female minors as long as the pimps are not White males.
     
    Some feminists think prostitution, especially in the West, is legitimate work. That it is not exploitation. That women should be free to trade sexual favors for money regardless of context.

    They also seem to revel in demolishing Christian morality more than protecting vulnerable women.

    In this, they seem to find occasional common cause with a segment of libertarian men who also consider Christian morality a shackle.

    Personally, I find this odd, because libertarianism seems to work best when people are both freedom-loving and religiously moral -- a condition best obtained in Christian societies.

    That would be prostitution engaged in by adult women with some choices, not by 15 year olds more or less owned by pimps. That argument may be right or wrong, but at least be clear what is and isn’t being argued for.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    That would be prostitution engaged in by adult women with some choices, not by 15 year olds more or less owned by pimps. That argument may be right or wrong, but at least be clear what is and isn’t being argued for.
     
    There are feminists who argue that what we in the West consider under-aged girls engaging in prostitution overseas is "empowering." Some of them were and are opponents of "moralistic" American efforts to curb sex trafficking (frequently of minors) overseas.

    Besides, exploitation is exploitation. There are certainly different levels of depravity and exploitation but if you think that adult sex workers are free-willing agents of moral choice, you don't know much about the illicit sex industry or the women who work in it. There is extremely high levels of drug abuse as well as physical and mental abuse/pressure by the men who control them.

    In any case, the point I made earlier was that the so-called feminists aren't really about protecting and empowering women per se, but more about destroying Christian "patriarchy."
  40. @iSteveFan

    Are there other words out there like this?
     
    table
    transitive verb

    : to decide not to discuss (something)

    : to formally present (something) for discussion

    I think that’s largely a British vs American usage distinction, though.

  41. They also seem to revel in demolishing Christian morality more than protecting vulnerable women.

    See comment #3.

  42. “There might be another reason why one crime was righteously denounced around the globe, while the other was covered up.

    Notice that in the Boko Haram case, the victims were black, and hence fit nicely into the West’s “official victim” category.”

    In the eyes of Liberals it is considered a shame that Boko Harem were not a bunch of White pimps, White pedophiles, and White rapists. If they were, the liberal media would be really licking their lips at a news story about White males sexually exploiting Black underage females because it would pour more gasoline into the fire of the war on Blacks narrative that has been started ever since Trayvon Martin, Oscar Grant, and Michael Brown.

  43. Dahlia says:

    From the Guardian’s (Where else?) Greatest Hits:

    Jan. 2011
    Dubious claims about Muslim men grooming white girls hide legitimate worries about a system that fails victims of abuse

    This is not the first time that anxieties about the ethnic dimension of child sexual exploitation have been aired by the media. In 2004 the Channel 4 documentary Edge of the City, which explored claims that Asian men in Bradford were grooming white girls as young as 11, sexually abusing them and passing them on to their friends, was initially withdrawn from the schedules after the BNP described it as “a party political broadcast”, and the chief constable of West Yorkshire police warned that it could spark disorder.

    Anecdotally, as far back as the mid-90s, local agencies have been aware of the participation of ethnic minority men in some cases of serial abuse. But what has not emerged is any consistent evidence to suggest that Pakistani Muslim men are uniquely and disproportionately involved in these crimes, nor that they are preying on white girls because they believe them to be legitimate sexual quarry, as is now being suggested.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jan/07/grooming-racialising-crime-tradition

  44. gu said
    > I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap.

    It seems to me that there are few things as difficult in the world as a relatively civilized/evolved/moral/articulate/high functioning member of a social group who acts, as a group, relatively more barbaric/animalistic/immoral/low functioning. They often use forcefully presented articulate intelligence and reason to deny, explain, justify, or even celebrate the misadventures of their ethnic brothers and sisters. If these people really wanted to be on the side of evolution/civilization, they would have to take the difficult step of categorically criticizing many of their own people.

    It’s like a comment I posted a few years back on one of the dark enlightenment sites, I forget which one (OneSTDV, maybe?):

    A few things I’ve noticed about black “intellectuals” and pundits (ie Aisha Harris, Al Sharpton, Alice Walker, Angela Davis, Armond White, bell hooks, Bob Herbert, Boyce Watkins, Charles Blow, Colbert King, Cornell West, Derrek Bell, DeWayne Wickham, Earl Ofari Hutchison, Eugene Robinson, Gwen Ifill, Henry Louis Gates, Jonathan Capehart, Lani Guinier, Leonard Pitts, Marc Lamont Hill, Melissa Harris-Perry, Michelle Alexander, Michael Eric Dyson, Nathan McCall, Nell Irvin Painter, Paul Butler, ProfessorCrunk Brittney Cooper, Raina Kelley, Randall Kennedy, Randall Robinson, Roland Martin, Stanley Crouch, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Touré, William C. Rhoden, Glenn C. Loury, William Raspberry, etc)

    * Their verbal output is predictably singular in subject: racism, race, black people, white people, oppression, the black experience, and, more than anything else, how white people should give black people more money, power, respect, legal clemency, etc.. They say not much of universal meaning, not much that moves society as a whole forward, not much that actually adds value. Shakespeare’s love sonnets explore an emotion that all human beings feel, people of all races enjoy the convenience of the airplanes that the Wright brothers invented, and all races in America enjoy the fruits of the infrastructure that whites have built (the power grid, cell phone towers, air travel and roads, the internet, houses and stores, etc). But black “intellectuals” main output is simply to take value created by white people and claim it for blacks (and I would say the same for most black politicians in mixed race nations – MLK, Mandela, Obama, the members of the black congressional caucus, Trevor Phillips, etc.).

    * BIs often speak from a simple, uncomplicated, Manichean, Saturday morning cartoon-worthy worldview. It often seems that, to them, black people are completely morally good and deserving of more good things, and white people are completely morally wicked and deserving of fewer good things.

    * BIs verbal output often bring discomfort, guilt, and shame to any whites who accept them, and anger for those of us white people that reject them. And I think that BIs are intentional in inflicting this discomfort.

    * BIs often make excuses for, express sympathy for, and urge clemency for, violent, intimidating, aggressive, animalistic, and injurious street-level black thug behavior.

    * Gates, Davis, and some of the rest of BIs may be unusually intelligent, but much of what the others on that list write or say is of simple and of low quality – seems to me that most BIs are only in the public eye because of affirmative action, tokenism, or otherwise being graded on a curve. Most Charles Blow columns read like they were written by a teenager. The plot of “The Color Purple” was childish. Most of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ arguments seem to consist, at essence, of him yelling “RACISM!!!”.

    * Finally, some of the BIs seem to want to be accepted as full members of the white liberal knowledge worker class, and, in some cases, also to freely date white women, without anyone identifying them as “different”. It is towards these ends that they push hard on the “race doesn’t exist” and “there is nothing at all in any way relatively unusually [violent, unintelligent, savage, immoral, aggressive, uncivilized, etc] about black people as a whole” memes.

    [or, as Steve himself said a while back: “African-Americans tend to be highly racialist. That doesn’t mean they always treat each other well, unfortunately— by, say, not shooting each other. But, clearly, they welcome chances to express verbally their racial solidarity—which also provides career benefits for a not-insignificant stratum of the more articulate blacks.”]

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Some of the names on your list are out of place. Glenn Loury is an economist with a considerable run of scholarly articles in urban, resource, and labor economics. He also tends to be fairly precise and circumspect in many of his characterizations. William Raspberry, the newspaper columnist, now deceased, was not given to stereotyped commentary. Gwen Ifill is an amiable public television fixture. I cannot figure how she's described here at all. And Stanley Crouch is a general critic (music, film, and literature as well) who's thinking has been all his own. (He once referred to Spike Lee's characters as 'cartoon coons'). Loury, Raspberry, and Crouch have taken up the topic of race matters, but that does not exhaust what they've written on (Loury in particular).

    Melissa Harris was once upon a time a rank-and-file political scientist with a modest portfolio of scholarly writings (mostly on public opinion formation in black populations, an interesting topic that merits some serious research), and as pleasant in her public presentation as Gwen Ifill. Her bibliography was such that she seemed out of place at Princeton, but likely would not have been at (say) the state colleges in New York. She seems to have gotten positive feedback for the wrong things.
    , @Lurker

    If these people really wanted to be on the side of evolution/civilization, they would have to take the difficult step of categorically criticizing many of their own people.
     
    Whereas many intelligent whites, whether 'left' or 'right', will gleefully throw less able whites under the bus on the slightest pretext. Furthermore they will do this implicitly including all members of [insert non-white group here] as members of their own high value group.
  45. iSteveFan says:

    You made a comparison between the treatment of the girls in Nigeria with these white girls from England. One thing I notice in my area, Missouri, is that the local news frequently has stories about some cop busting a guy who thought he was luring a teenage girl to a remote location for sex. Apparently our cops have enough time to role play as teenage girls on websites and gain the confidence of some thirty-year old white guy who wants to hookup. The guy then drives to a remote motel where he finds the cops awaiting. He then is booked for various crimes and has to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. The news story usually ends with the reporter instructing the viewers to not let their kids text or chat without adult supervision. Is the media in the UK now instructing their viewers to not let their girls be alone with pakis?

    Maybe some of our Missouri cops could do a liaison stint in the UK and help put an end to this nonsense.

    • Replies: @Lurker

    Is the media in the UK now instructing their viewers to not let their girls be alone with pakis?
     
    Of course not! But then you already knew that.
  46. @Anonymous
    I was browsing the internet when the last big Muslim rape scandal appeared a couple years ago. In Oxford, I believe.

    When I searched for pages discussing Muslim law on "temporary" marriages [e.g. "I hereby marry you for two hours for $50"] I found one of those delightful "Ask your Imam" websites where good, decent, Sharia-law-abiding boys and girls get their priests to pasken on legal issues.

    One writer was a Paki man living in England who wanted to know the rules regarding a "temporary marriage" to an infidel English girl.

    In his response, the mullah/imam explained that temporary marriages to young infidel girls were OK. But if the girl was a virgin you had to ask her father first.

    The boy explained that the girl had no father in the home, and the imam/mullah paskened that, in that case, he could just temporarily marry her like he would any non-virgin. No permission required.

    So if she is homeless, in care, an orphan, or otherwise outside of her rather's direct control, just get her to say the magic words: "I marry you for ____ minutes/hours/days for ___ dollars/beers/joints" and--Bingo!--you are in like Flynn.

    Fornicating with English girls over age 10-12 or so is extremely convenient for Muslim men. And it is all in accordance with the highest, most moral Sharia traditions.

    “Fornicating with English girls over age 10-12 or so is extremely convenient for Muslim men. And it is all in accordance with the highest, most moral Sharia traditions.”

    Westerners snicker at Osama bin Laden’s porn stash, or the 9/11 terrorists’ and the Fort Hood shooter’s visits to strip clubs, and regard such activities as a mark of hypocrisy for those pretending to be devout, but given Islam’s views on sex slavery, I do not see that any of those activities are forbidden when it comes to kaffir women (though it might take a little effort to find an imam who can interpret the verses in the desired way).

  47. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet."


    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/30/rotherham-girls-could-have-been-spared-ann-cryer


    "she asked a friend, a Muslim councillor of Pakistani heritage, to approach the elders at the mosque with a list of 35 names and addresses of the alleged perpetrators. "He said to the imams, 'Ann Cryer would like you to go around to these families and explain that this behaviour is totally un-Islamic.' But the upshot was that the elders allegedly said, 'Go back to Ann Cryer and tell her it's nothing to do with us.' ""
     

    Ann Cryer is (for a Labour MP) not a bad egg. But even she spends more paragraphs worrying about how "bad people" ( i.e. BNP/tabloid press) might respond, than worrying about the abuse.

    Note also the latest Stockholm Syndrome - a white British woman telling Muslim elders and imams what Islam is and isn't. We've had this from Blair (over 7/7 bombings) and from Cameron (over beheading soldiers and flying out to Syria to fight with ISIS). These people are all apparently Islamic scholars and can pronounce on what's haram and what's halal - without even being Muslims !

    “But even she spends more paragraphs worrying about how “bad people” ( i.e. BNP/tabloid press) might respond, than worrying about the abuse.”

    Spencer has frequently noted that when a story like this breaks, the primary reaction of the Muslim spokes-community seems to be precisely what the above statement describes — rallying the troops around the claim that it is the Muslims who are victims, simply because of what others might do to them because of the negative press.

    “Why, oh why, does everything always happen to us?”

    They would do well to answer that question by pointing to something other than Islamophobia.

  48. @gu
    Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    This person is one of these "rules lawyers" who think he's all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. In other words: those rapists raped for the same reasons blacks rape. They don't do it because they really think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They do it because they are psychopaths that don't care about anyone but close kin and have a higher sex drive.

    Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in "slavery", why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?

    “Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. ”

    6. Consummated at 9. He’s still your prophet?

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    Yeah, and the Muslim holy book sanctifies it. Can you find anywhere in the NT or the OT where it says it's OK now or it was OK then to fuck a 9 year old girl.

    Then there is the whole 72 Virgins/Raisins issue. I guess some people don't know Syriac all that well.

    Still, Emmet Scott in A Guide to the Phantom Dark Ages or The Impact of Islam suggests that the Quran makes more sense when read in Syriac and is a Christian Lectionary.

    Of course, just as there is the question of DJE, there is also the question of DME?
    , @Curious Reader
    6. Consummated at 9. He’s still your prophet?

    He's not just a prophet to them. He's the perfect man, to be emulated in all things. And beheading and rape just happen to have been some of his favourite pastimes.
  49. @Ross

    Victimizing black people is always wrong. Victimizing white people, well
     
    You say that but back in 2005 there were riots between black and "Asian" youths in Birmingham England. At the time the spark was reported to be false rumours of a group of Asian men raping a young black girl in the back of a shop.

    At the time it was dismissed as being a baseless lie, but even if the specific allegation against the particular businessman were probably false and irresponsible the accusation does seem to be very close to what we know occurred in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and many other cities. That makes me wonder if there was a germ of truth in the rumour.

    There’s a germ of truth in most things.

  50. WhatEvvs [AKA "Cookies"] says:
    @jackson
    Never heard of this Susan Brownmiller before. The fraction of feminists who are Jews appears to be approaching singularity.

    Anyone who never heard of Brownmiller hasn’t earned the right to speak about 2nd wave feminism. Yes, many Jews but the biggest name was Kate Millett and don’t forget Ti-Grace Atkinson, and Germaine Greer.

    Brownmiller said that rape was the way that ALL men kept ALL women subjugated. This is like saying that hitting is the way that ALL mothers keep ALL children subjugated. It’s really stupid. If all Brownie had said was that rape is power, then she would have been right. But she went well beyond that. Like a lot of feminists, I think she was borderline. (Millett and Firestone were plumb psycho.)

    • Replies: @jackson
    Anyone who never heard of Brownmiller hasn’t earned the right to speak about 2nd wave feminism.

    I do concede that there's a significant smattering of gentile women, generally bipolar, among the vanguard of the feminist movement(s).

    , @Brutusale
    More psycho than Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin?
  51. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @anon
    "Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. "

    6. Consummated at 9. He's still your prophet?

    Yeah, and the Muslim holy book sanctifies it. Can you find anywhere in the NT or the OT where it says it’s OK now or it was OK then to fuck a 9 year old girl.

    Then there is the whole 72 Virgins/Raisins issue. I guess some people don’t know Syriac all that well.

    Still, Emmet Scott in A Guide to the Phantom Dark Ages or The Impact of Islam suggests that the Quran makes more sense when read in Syriac and is a Christian Lectionary.

    Of course, just as there is the question of DJE, there is also the question of DME?

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    At least the Rotherham Rapists were a little more caring.

    They only seemed to rape 11 year old and above girls.
  52. @gu
    Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    This person is one of these "rules lawyers" who think he's all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. In other words: those rapists raped for the same reasons blacks rape. They don't do it because they really think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They do it because they are psychopaths that don't care about anyone but close kin and have a higher sex drive.

    Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in "slavery", why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?

    “Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in “slavery”, why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?”

    They latter two groups of slavers met with much more resistance. There was also that thing called the Civil War though both sides had banned much of what was once slavery by the time that came along.

    Not only that, both groups of slavers had ample help from Muslims.

    But the topic here is sex slavery, not slavery in general. I do not know of any Christian sect that permitted sex slavery per se. The same cannot be said for those who try to argue against the practice from a Koranic perspective.

    As such, your anger against those who point out these things is misplaced, and would be better directed elsewhere.

  53. @Anonymous Nephew
    I believe temporary marriages (Nikah mut'ah) are a Shia thing :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%E2%80%98ah

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22354201

    Anonymous Nephew:

    I believe temporary marriages (Nikah mut’ah) are a Shia thing.

    You are correct. The Sunni have their own flavor of temporary marriage called “Nikah misyar” or [ahem] “traveler’s marriage”.

  54. “In contrast, for many years in England, Pakistani pimps have been luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery; but the English Establishment — police, political, and media — responded with a long Awareness Lowering campaign.”

    Apples and oranges. The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point. Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable, but it is not nearly as vile as what happenes in Africa. There is no actual sexual assault in the case of white British girls being lured into prostitution, while there is definitely sexual assault in the case of armed men who kidnap and force women into prostitution. I am flabbergasted that you can’t realize how dissimilar the two situations are. You are either not very bright, or are being disingenuous on purpose.

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.

    • Replies: @HA
    ”The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution,…”

    Yeah, 12-year old girls in some cases. So, repeat the following corrected sentence several times:

    “The pimps in England are talking 12-year old girls into prostitution.”

    Repeat it out loud so you can hear yourself saying the words. Go ahead, try it.

    "Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable,..."

    You see? – a statement like that just tells the world you’re still not getting it. If that’s the best you can do, just keep on repeating the above corrected sentence. At some point, if there is any humanity left in you, if indeed there ever any there to begin with, the colossal stupidity of the uncorrected version will hit you.

    , @Voltaire's Spinning Corpse
    Some third-world turd wrote:

    "Apples and oranges. The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point."

    Maybe your little latino sister or cousin wants to be gang raped by 40 40-year-old pakistani men, too; it's a choice and hence not that awful.

    , @Lurker

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.
     
    I can't speak for Steve but I just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations. Sure I would make some exceptions here and there but thats essentially my position. No need for 'excuses'.

    Whats you're background Nick claiming to be PoC or are you just a white sell-out?
    , @Borachio
    "Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you?"

    I'll tell you the truth, speaking only for myself, not for Steve or anyone else.

    It depends on the non-whites. Chinese and Japanese often have much to offer: they are civilized and, on average, have higher IQs than non-Jewish whites. Indians sometimes. Even, on occasion, Africans.

    But as a general proposition, no, I don't want non-whites immigrating to white Western nations. The most important reason has little to do with the people themselves. Their difference creates a fault line on which social and political strife almost always results. The difference problem applies to Chinese, and Japanese, too, but they tend to be intelligent and civilized enough to handle it.

    , @22pp22
    Read my lips.

    I OPPOSE LARGE-SCALE NON-WHITE IMMIGRATION.

    Is that clear? There can be SOME exceptions like that Iranian woman who just won a Fields Medal, but essentially I prefer my own society and my own people. I have lived in Japan and Korea and they overwhelmingly share my views. Take a walk through Tokyo some time.

    Holland was better when it was Dutch and England when it was English. Japan is a stronger and better society because it is not multicultural.
  55. Just wait. Libs will lower age of consent to nine. Muslims, Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, and Morgan Freeman will weep for jiy.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Polanski was bloody guilty. Re Allen, it's all pretty murky.
  56. Spencer has frequently noted that when a story like this breaks, the primary reaction of the Muslim spokes-community seems to be precisely what the above statement describes — rallying the troops around the claim that it is the Muslims who are victims, simply because of what others might do to them because of the negative press.

    As Mark Steyn put it in an imaginary headline, “British Muslims Fear Repercussions After Tomorrow’s Train Bombing.”

  57. @Jefferson
    "Of course, Feminism Inc. has been remarkably out to lunch for the last decade on the crisis of white Christian girls being lured into sexual slavery by Muslim pimps in England."

    British feminists are some of the biggest supporters of increased immigration to Great Britain from Pakistan, so of course they are pro-Pakistani pimps.

    I have always said that feminists are not anti-men, they are only anti-White men. They could care less about sexual prostitution rings of female minors as long as the pimps are not White males.

    Remember when feminists were raging over Eminem's songs about violence towards women, how come feminists were not angry when N.W.A for example were making songs about violence towards women ?

    Eminem was not the first rapper in history to record songs about violently hurting women, but he was the rapper who got the most press for it. And he just so happens to be one of the few Whites in Hip Hop. Coincidence ? I think not.

    NWA and Eminem were like 15 years apart, which is a lifetime in PC time.

  58. @Ian
    gu said
    > I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap.

    It seems to me that there are few things as difficult in the world as a relatively civilized/evolved/moral/articulate/high functioning member of a social group who acts, as a group, relatively more barbaric/animalistic/immoral/low functioning. They often use forcefully presented articulate intelligence and reason to deny, explain, justify, or even celebrate the misadventures of their ethnic brothers and sisters. If these people really wanted to be on the side of evolution/civilization, they would have to take the difficult step of categorically criticizing many of their own people.

    It's like a comment I posted a few years back on one of the dark enlightenment sites, I forget which one (OneSTDV, maybe?):

    A few things I've noticed about black "intellectuals" and pundits (ie Aisha Harris, Al Sharpton, Alice Walker, Angela Davis, Armond White, bell hooks, Bob Herbert, Boyce Watkins, Charles Blow, Colbert King, Cornell West, Derrek Bell, DeWayne Wickham, Earl Ofari Hutchison, Eugene Robinson, Gwen Ifill, Henry Louis Gates, Jonathan Capehart, Lani Guinier, Leonard Pitts, Marc Lamont Hill, Melissa Harris-Perry, Michelle Alexander, Michael Eric Dyson, Nathan McCall, Nell Irvin Painter, Paul Butler, ProfessorCrunk Brittney Cooper, Raina Kelley, Randall Kennedy, Randall Robinson, Roland Martin, Stanley Crouch, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Touré, William C. Rhoden, Glenn C. Loury, William Raspberry, etc)

    * Their verbal output is predictably singular in subject: racism, race, black people, white people, oppression, the black experience, and, more than anything else, how white people should give black people more money, power, respect, legal clemency, etc.. They say not much of universal meaning, not much that moves society as a whole forward, not much that actually adds value. Shakespeare's love sonnets explore an emotion that all human beings feel, people of all races enjoy the convenience of the airplanes that the Wright brothers invented, and all races in America enjoy the fruits of the infrastructure that whites have built (the power grid, cell phone towers, air travel and roads, the internet, houses and stores, etc). But black "intellectuals" main output is simply to take value created by white people and claim it for blacks (and I would say the same for most black politicians in mixed race nations - MLK, Mandela, Obama, the members of the black congressional caucus, Trevor Phillips, etc.).

    * BIs often speak from a simple, uncomplicated, Manichean, Saturday morning cartoon-worthy worldview. It often seems that, to them, black people are completely morally good and deserving of more good things, and white people are completely morally wicked and deserving of fewer good things.

    * BIs verbal output often bring discomfort, guilt, and shame to any whites who accept them, and anger for those of us white people that reject them. And I think that BIs are intentional in inflicting this discomfort.

    * BIs often make excuses for, express sympathy for, and urge clemency for, violent, intimidating, aggressive, animalistic, and injurious street-level black thug behavior.

    * Gates, Davis, and some of the rest of BIs may be unusually intelligent, but much of what the others on that list write or say is of simple and of low quality - seems to me that most BIs are only in the public eye because of affirmative action, tokenism, or otherwise being graded on a curve. Most Charles Blow columns read like they were written by a teenager. The plot of "The Color Purple" was childish. Most of Ta-Nehisi Coates' arguments seem to consist, at essence, of him yelling "RACISM!!!".

    * Finally, some of the BIs seem to want to be accepted as full members of the white liberal knowledge worker class, and, in some cases, also to freely date white women, without anyone identifying them as "different". It is towards these ends that they push hard on the "race doesn't exist" and "there is nothing at all in any way relatively unusually [violent, unintelligent, savage, immoral, aggressive, uncivilized, etc] about black people as a whole" memes.

    [or, as Steve himself said a while back: "African-Americans tend to be highly racialist. That doesn’t mean they always treat each other well, unfortunately— by, say, not shooting each other. But, clearly, they welcome chances to express verbally their racial solidarity—which also provides career benefits for a not-insignificant stratum of the more articulate blacks."]

    Some of the names on your list are out of place. Glenn Loury is an economist with a considerable run of scholarly articles in urban, resource, and labor economics. He also tends to be fairly precise and circumspect in many of his characterizations. William Raspberry, the newspaper columnist, now deceased, was not given to stereotyped commentary. Gwen Ifill is an amiable public television fixture. I cannot figure how she’s described here at all. And Stanley Crouch is a general critic (music, film, and literature as well) who’s thinking has been all his own. (He once referred to Spike Lee’s characters as ‘cartoon coons’). Loury, Raspberry, and Crouch have taken up the topic of race matters, but that does not exhaust what they’ve written on (Loury in particular).

    Melissa Harris was once upon a time a rank-and-file political scientist with a modest portfolio of scholarly writings (mostly on public opinion formation in black populations, an interesting topic that merits some serious research), and as pleasant in her public presentation as Gwen Ifill. Her bibliography was such that she seemed out of place at Princeton, but likely would not have been at (say) the state colleges in New York. She seems to have gotten positive feedback for the wrong things.

  59. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Feminism has settled into being a business which is degenerating into a racket. It all makes sense when viewed with that in mind.
    Third world attitudes towards sex and power are way different from that of western middle class people. It’s a big mistake to automatically assume everyone thinks alike. Scooping up unguarded female unbelievers was probably considered to be a fabulous racket. Same thing with African rape gangs and other ways of having fun at the expense of vulnerable types outside of the group. Never underestimate their sadism and cruelty or how low they can go.

  60. @Voltaire's Spinning Corpse
    Rape is not a sexual crime. It is not sexual! Rape is a violent crime...it's a violent crime, where you cum at the end. It's no different than if you robbed a liquor store... and then came.

    --Adam Carolla

    I’m surprised Carolla doesn’t get a little more run here. He’s comic who grew up poor in LA to welfare, hippy parents. He sees through the liberal SoCal bullshit pretty well.

    A bit boorish at times, but he can be geniunely funny. I love the quote you posted. I’ve always remembered it, because it cuts through the bullshit so well.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I've read both Carolla's books.
  61. Where is Unz’s guru on Islam, Razib Khan, on all this?

    working on a paper revision. i have always had real work to do. just because i don’t talk about my non-blog life that much doesn’t mean that i don’t have it. i did have time to comment on this is a little on facebook and brownpundits.

    • Replies: @Anon23
    Indeed, Razib Khan honestly did it in
    http://brownpundits.blogspot.com/2014/08/this-is-rape-culture.html
  62. @jackson
    Never heard of this Susan Brownmiller before. The fraction of feminists who are Jews appears to be approaching singularity.

    Why do you think there’s so much intermarriage?

  63. @polynikes
    I'm surprised Carolla doesn't get a little more run here. He's comic who grew up poor in LA to welfare, hippy parents. He sees through the liberal SoCal bullshit pretty well.

    A bit boorish at times, but he can be geniunely funny. I love the quote you posted. I've always remembered it, because it cuts through the bullshit so well.

    I’ve read both Carolla’s books.

  64. @Steve Sailer
    Cleave means cut apart (as with a meat cleaver) and come together (from the King James Bible: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.")

    Re the two meanings of “cleave” – they probably derive from two morphologically similar but distinct words. In Afrikaans the verb “kleef” means “stick together” and “kloof” means “split apart”.

  65. “I’m surprised Carolla doesn’t get a little more run here. He’s comic who grew up poor in LA to welfare, hippy parents. He sees through the liberal SoCal bullshit pretty well.

    A bit boorish at times, but he can be geniunely funny. I love the quote you posted. I’ve always remembered it, because it cuts through the bullshit so well.”

    Adam Carolla is a rags to riches story. He went from being on welfare to being part of the 1 percent. Carolla has bluntly admitted on The O’Reilly that he is a rich guy, he is not struggling.

  66. “luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery”

    I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    The Rotherham teenagers, not really girls, were raped only in the sense that they had not reached the age of consent. If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else. They went with the highest bidder. That’s a sad state of affairs but, it is what it is.

    The reality TV program Benefits Street describes the situation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits_Street

    • Replies: @fnn
    Tip: Don't use reality TV shows as sources. We all know English proles are generally in a wretched state-that doesn't mean they're all subhuman.
    , @Anonymous
    "I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    The Rotherham teenagers, not really girls, were raped only in the sense that they had not reached the age of consent. If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else. They went with the highest bidder. That’s a sad state of affairs but, it is what it is."

    The reality TV program Benefits Street describes the situation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits_Street

    Meditate on this comment for a moment. This is, I imagine, a white guy (though quite possibly not) who takes the time and energy to mitigate damages for non-white sex crimes against white girls.

    Can you imagine a non-white adult man doing the same in the reverse situation?

    , @Curious Reader
    I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else.

    Ah well, that's ok then. Let's douse all those silly, lower class girls in petrol and gang-rape them then. Or will you make an exception for the 12-year-olds at least, since they're not teenagers yet?

    Maybe you're just trolling, but either way, you're disgusting.
    , @TWS
    You know, being covered and gasoline and threatened with a match or beaten, pistol whipped, and threatened with being shot and their families killed or even going to the police and then being returned to the rapists seems like there was a level of force used.

    And no an eleven or twelve year old cannot give consent. So you let your children become sex workers before they're in high school? You wouldn't mind if they decide to have sex with your seventy five year old neighbor?

    Find a rock, crawl under it. Everyone wins.
  67. Nick Diaz – The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point.

    Is this what the left has come to? It’s perfectly all right to TALK twelve year old girls into prostitution? Of course you’re wrong factually as well as logically – they’re not being talked into it, they’re being forced into it. …

  68. @Nick Diaz
    @Steve Sailer

    "In contrast, for many years in England, Pakistani pimps have been luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery; but the English Establishment — police, political, and media — responded with a long Awareness Lowering campaign."

    Apples and oranges. The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point. Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable, but it is not nearly as vile as what happenes in Africa. There is no actual sexual assault in the case of white British girls being lured into prostitution, while there is definitely sexual assault in the case of armed men who kidnap and force women into prostitution. I am flabbergasted that you can't realize how dissimilar the two situations are. You are either not very bright, or are being disingenuous on purpose.

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don't want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.

    ”The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution,…”

    Yeah, 12-year old girls in some cases. So, repeat the following corrected sentence several times:

    “The pimps in England are talking 12-year old girls into prostitution.”

    Repeat it out loud so you can hear yourself saying the words. Go ahead, try it.

    “Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable,…”

    You see? – a statement like that just tells the world you’re still not getting it. If that’s the best you can do, just keep on repeating the above corrected sentence. At some point, if there is any humanity left in you, if indeed there ever any there to begin with, the colossal stupidity of the uncorrected version will hit you.

  69. Adam Carolla is another one of those guys who will step right up to the line and maybe stick a toe on the other side but won’t step over with his entire body. But he knows what’s going on. He just still hopes for a movie career.

  70. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @The most deplorable one
    Yeah, and the Muslim holy book sanctifies it. Can you find anywhere in the NT or the OT where it says it's OK now or it was OK then to fuck a 9 year old girl.

    Then there is the whole 72 Virgins/Raisins issue. I guess some people don't know Syriac all that well.

    Still, Emmet Scott in A Guide to the Phantom Dark Ages or The Impact of Islam suggests that the Quran makes more sense when read in Syriac and is a Christian Lectionary.

    Of course, just as there is the question of DJE, there is also the question of DME?

    At least the Rotherham Rapists were a little more caring.

    They only seemed to rape 11 year old and above girls.

  71. “But what has not emerged is any consistent evidence to suggest that Pakistani Muslim men are uniquely and disproportionately involved in these crimes, nor that they are preying on white girls because they believe them to be legitimate sexual quarry, as is now being suggested.”

    Pakistanis make up 2 percent of Great Britain’s population, yet I doubt that only 2 percent of all rapists in Great Britain are Pakistani.

    I have no doubt that Pakistani men are overrepresented among Great Britain’s rapist population, just like Blacks are overrepresented among America’s killer population.

  72. @22pp22
    Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet. At this moment of shame for your religion, one would expect some contrition room the Muslim community. Instead, you tell us how much we should respect you. I don't respect you and wish you had never come to live in the West.

    “Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet”

    Proof by assertion.

    “At this moment of shame for your religion”

    …….WHAT

    How on earth do you make yourself believe that this makes sense?

    Listen to yourself: you literally take a case of a bunch of lowlifes engaging in rape and SOMEHOW relate this to the religion they believe in.

    Why is it always related to their professed religion whenever one of these thugs does something wrong? When Joseph Fritzl got arrested for keeping that rape cave or that pedo ring in Belgium (Marc Dutroux) came up, NOBOD related it thus.

    You are mentally ill.

    “one would expect some contrition room the Muslim community.”

    I have no idea what this means. But I’m not going to cut myself because a bunch of Pakistani did that. They’re filth. So what? Why would I have to apologize?

    ” Instead, you tell us how much we should respect you.”

    No not really. I just think it’s pathetic to bring up religion when most Muslims believe that raping children is sinful, despite your hostile, biased interpretation of Islam. Pakistani rape for the same reason why other, high frequency rapist people rape. Black people rape frequently as well. I don’t see you indicting Protestant Christianity.

    • Replies: @22pp22
    You act as if I have no experience of living with Muslims. I have and I don't like it. London and Paris are full of Muslims. There are/were dozens of these gangs. They were almost exclusively South Asian. Their victims were indigenous. That's a pattern.

    We are under siege from Islamic invaders bringing their benighted culture with them. I have watched town after town change demographically and be turned into a Third World sh1th0le.

    We hear time and time again that Islam is beautiful and that those who behave badly are few in number. That is codswallop to anyone who has any experience of living in Dewsbury, Luton or St Etienne.

    We were so much better off without you. I don't care how advanced you were in the tenth century. That was then. This is now.

  73. @Robinson
    "This person is one of these “rules lawyers” who think he’s all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. "

    I read this as "True, there is nothing redeeming about the Quran, but no one pays attention to it anyway." It would be nice if that were really the case. I bet many beheaders and amateur pilots find it quite inspiring.

    People don’t think that rape is acceptable as a result of Islam, that’s for sure.

    I spoke to a Kurd around NYE 2012. He said that he would rape some random women if the world were to end. I was kind of shocked and couldn’t believe what he said.

    You know what he DIDN’T say? “Man, who cares, Allah thinks rape is ok anyways.”

    I knew guys essentially coercing a girl to give another guy a handjob for his birthday. He did this because he was a bonafide psychopath, not because he believed it was halal to do. (the same guy was also a thief and a drug user)

    So please, spare me your filth.

    • Replies: @Robinson
    "People don’t think that rape is acceptable as a result of Islam, that’s for sure."

    Have you polled Muslem rapists? Proof by assertion? Seriously, when groups do something evil, you have to ask what binds the group. Is rape too mundane to be motivated by Islam? Perhaps religious motivation is reserved for big evil, like removing a head or taking down some skyscrapers.

    I really don't understand the purpose of your anecdotes. You run into some f'd up people.

    "So please, spare me your filth."

    Wonder how I can cleanse myself of my filth. Know any good rituals? I hate to be thought unclean.
  74. Actually, the case of the Pakistani rapists and pimps is not an example of Islamic imperialism.

    The Pakistanis rape good Muslim girls in Pakistan all the time. Just web search for “Rape in Pakistan” and you’ll get an eyeful. There’s a rape in Pakistan every two hours. And a gang rape every 8 hours.

    The British girls aren’t being raped because they’re Christian, but because the Pakistanis find the white girls sexier.

    Doesn’t it make you feel safe and secure to know it’s not the Clash of Civilizations, but just good old fashioned evil?

    • Replies: @gu
    "The British girls aren’t being raped because they’re Christian, but because the Pakistanis find the white girls sexier."

    I actually laughed.
    , @HA
    "Actually, the case of the Pakistani rapists and pimps is not an example of Islamic imperialism…The Pakistanis rape good Muslim girls in Pakistan all the time."

    I’m not one of those claiming this has anything to do with Islamic imperialism per se (though it may well have something to do with Islamic teaching), but the fact that there are rapists in Pakistan has little bearing on the matter one way or another. If somebody kills in the pursuit of jihad, the fact that there are other Muslims who murder for the sheer thrill of it does not disprove the motivations of the former.
    , @Curious Reader
    I'm sure Pakistani rapists enjoy raping Pakistani girls. But raping non-Muslim girls gives them that sort of enjoyment, plus the additional thrill of raping kaffirs. For a pious Muslim, things don't get much better than that. Britain is Jannah on earth for Muslims.

    Westerners, even non-PC ones, often can't quite grasp how important religion is to so many Muslims. It is the literal word of god, it's all-consuming, it's everything. There are quite a few Muslims who don't hate "infidels". But they're not good, pious Muslims. They claim to be Muslims, but some might not even have read the Koran. Some might even become apostates if it wasn't such a dangerous decision for so many of them. But good Muslims, those who truly believe in their religion, hate infidels. It's what the most important entity in their lives teaches them to do. You can't be a good Muslim without hating infidels, non-hateful piety is an oxymoron in Islam.
  75. @Nick Diaz
    @Steve Sailer

    "In contrast, for many years in England, Pakistani pimps have been luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery; but the English Establishment — police, political, and media — responded with a long Awareness Lowering campaign."

    Apples and oranges. The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point. Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable, but it is not nearly as vile as what happenes in Africa. There is no actual sexual assault in the case of white British girls being lured into prostitution, while there is definitely sexual assault in the case of armed men who kidnap and force women into prostitution. I am flabbergasted that you can't realize how dissimilar the two situations are. You are either not very bright, or are being disingenuous on purpose.

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don't want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.

    Some third-world turd wrote:

    “Apples and oranges. The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point.”

    Maybe your little latino sister or cousin wants to be gang raped by 40 40-year-old pakistani men, too; it’s a choice and hence not that awful.

  76. @Retired
    "why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?"
    The operative word here is "did"

    "Just sayin’…By their fruits shall ye know them…" Well said

    One of the questions of the century is: "Where are all the moderate muslims?" The ones in the "Coexist" bumpersticker?

    “The operative word here is “did””

    Irrelevant. Point is, since a slaving people owned slaves even without the express sanction of God, it is proof positive that “They engaged in slavery, MUST BE ISLAM” is a silly argument.

    Moderate Muslims are everywhere. You just choose to ignore their existence. Thousands of flights land safely every day and you don’t hear about that either.

    • Replies: @HA
    ”You know what he DIDN’T say? 'Man, who cares, Allah thinks rape is ok anyways.'”

    But there are indeed Muslims who think that having sex with a 9-year-old (or with a slave) is fine, and use the Koran and the life of Muhammad to justify doing so. If you don’t see that as a big problem, then you’re part of that problem.

    "Moderate Muslims are everywhere."


    No one here denies that there are many decent Muslims who would never have sex with a 9 year old. The problem is the number of those who do and who justify it scripturally, and who would consider it wrong to forbid such acts on the same basis. Objectively speaking, it is difficult to say that the latter are more faithful to their religion than the moderates, and since there is no central authority as to what is and is not true Islam -- and a lot of resentment against any "reforms" that were introduced by way of the West, there will be more of a problem in such matters with the devout of Islam than with those of other religions.

    Buddhist monks have done some terrible things in the course of history, but if I had the choice of living next to zealous Buddhist, or a zealous Muslim, I’d probably choose the former -- even if I were one of those moderate Muslims.

    , @Difference Maker
    Fine. We can convert to your religion

    Then the warlike among us will become lords among you and we can execute/expel the criminals

  77. @George
    "luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery"

    I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    The Rotherham teenagers, not really girls, were raped only in the sense that they had not reached the age of consent. If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else. They went with the highest bidder. That's a sad state of affairs but, it is what it is.

    The reality TV program Benefits Street describes the situation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits_Street

    Tip: Don’t use reality TV shows as sources. We all know English proles are generally in a wretched state-that doesn’t mean they’re all subhuman.

  78. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @George
    "luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery"

    I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    The Rotherham teenagers, not really girls, were raped only in the sense that they had not reached the age of consent. If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else. They went with the highest bidder. That's a sad state of affairs but, it is what it is.

    The reality TV program Benefits Street describes the situation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits_Street

    “I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    The Rotherham teenagers, not really girls, were raped only in the sense that they had not reached the age of consent. If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else. They went with the highest bidder. That’s a sad state of affairs but, it is what it is.”

    The reality TV program Benefits Street describes the situation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits_Street

    Meditate on this comment for a moment. This is, I imagine, a white guy (though quite possibly not) who takes the time and energy to mitigate damages for non-white sex crimes against white girls.

    Can you imagine a non-white adult man doing the same in the reverse situation?

    • Replies: @george
    "Can you imagine a non-white adult man doing the same in the reverse situation?"

    Sex tours of third world nations, Thailand?, are more than just rumors.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter

    Pakistanis did not import sex into the UK, it was there when they got there. Sure it was scummy of the individuals involved. But the UK has had scummy individuals in the past doing the same stuff, although admittedly usually British individuals before the great immigration.

    A better immigration angle is that jobs that would have been done by English teenagers are being done by middle aged foreign males. If the teenage girls had work they would have bought iPhones with their own money.

    One 'revelation' of the Ferguson riots is that even though there are plenty of unemployed Blacks the store was employing what appears to be an elderly foreigner. The foreigner is mostly likely paid room and board, his retirement to be paid by Social Security.
  79. @DPG
    Sanction has to be one of the worst words in the English language. Its two meanings are literally the opposite of each other. Is there a term in grammar for a word or phrase that can have the opposite meaning of itself? Are there other words out there like this?

    Yes.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-antonym
    You’re welcome.

    There’s an Arabic word for this concept (singular: “didd”, plural: “addad”). So auto-antonyms must be relatively common in Arabic. Diddn’t know that.

  80. Thank you for the input. It seems clear that you know more than I do about the output/beliefs of some, many, or perhaps all of the folks on my list.

    I have added that list up over the years, name by name. The beliefs and “work” of some of the folks, I know way too well and have come across too often (ie Al Sharpton, Alice Walker, Angela Davis, bell hooks, Charles Blow, Cornell West, Ta-Nehisi Coates, and Touré). Many of the rest of the names on the list, however, I have added to it after coming across a single eye rolling blog post, newspaper article, or you tube video that seems to indicate that they fit the pattern of high-articulation race warriorship. As you say, perhaps in some cases adding a name to the list has not been completely fair or accurate.

    I find myself curious how you know so much about the people you mentioned. I find myself hypothesizing, on little evidence, that (1) you are someone whose life profile is not that different than some of the folks on that list (ie a member of the talented tenth), (2) an academic whose job it is to know about a lot of different things, or (3) just one of the many 140+ IQ white guys with regular jobs who roam around the dark enlightenment websphere, are curious about many different things, and are smart enough to retain specific knowledge after only one or two exposures to it.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    1. No I'm not talented.

    2. I'm blacker than Obama, but then so's Gov. Blagojevich (and many many others with no melanin at all).

    3. I've wasted more time than I ever should have reading topical commentary and opinion, so I've heard of most of these people and read some of their work. As far as I can see 'bell hooks' is a performer of a sort: a woman who plays word games and engages in self-aggrandizing rhetorical play in a simulacrum of literary criticism (e.g. accusing Madonna Ciccone of 'racist aggression' for using an image of a negroid Jesus in one of her music videos). Critics of Cornell West (e.g. Leon Wieseltier) and Houston Baker (e.g. Terry Teachout) have maintained that their academic books are junk, gaseous and useless nonsense.

    4. A generation ago, Michael Kinsley offered the opinion from afar that Michael Jackson was a ruin and ruined because of his peculiar upbringing (performing in lieu of school and normal play) and getting a good deal of positive feedback for 'remaining childlike and turning weird' ('babbling about misunderstood snakes', &c). My guess about West and Baker and perhaps 'hooks' is that they were ruined by lack of honest feedback about their draft publications and got a mess of positive feedback for producing rococo verbiage which had nothing behind it. Others get sidetracked into the teacher training faculties. Others end up in the black studies niche. One institution I was employed at had a modest corps of black faculty of varying degrees of durability. I recall some whose research and teaching did not have a racial aspect. Two were West Indians (one an economist and the other a computer scientist) and the third was a very peripheral temporary faculty member, also a computer scientist. None of these were competing for a permanent faculty slot. There was a fourth fellow (from Idaho, as I recall) who abandoned his sociological studies (in criminology) and took a job in academic administration. Academe is damaging the black intelligentsia the way the race patronage system damaged the Obamas professional development.
  81. @Nick Diaz
    @Steve Sailer

    "In contrast, for many years in England, Pakistani pimps have been luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery; but the English Establishment — police, political, and media — responded with a long Awareness Lowering campaign."

    Apples and oranges. The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point. Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable, but it is not nearly as vile as what happenes in Africa. There is no actual sexual assault in the case of white British girls being lured into prostitution, while there is definitely sexual assault in the case of armed men who kidnap and force women into prostitution. I am flabbergasted that you can't realize how dissimilar the two situations are. You are either not very bright, or are being disingenuous on purpose.

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don't want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.

    I can’t speak for Steve but I just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations. Sure I would make some exceptions here and there but thats essentially my position. No need for ‘excuses’.

    Whats you’re background Nick claiming to be PoC or are you just a white sell-out?

    • Replies: @Lurker
    What's your background...
    , @Anonymous
    "you just don't want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you". "Nick Diaz".

    That's absolutely right sport. We don't. No excuses or apologies. We want white countries to stay white. If non-whites immigrate to white countries then they are no longer white countries. As a white person, why would I want a non-white country over a white one? As a white person how exactly do i benefit from non-white immigration? How does being turned into a minority do me any good?
  82. @iSteveFan
    You made a comparison between the treatment of the girls in Nigeria with these white girls from England. One thing I notice in my area, Missouri, is that the local news frequently has stories about some cop busting a guy who thought he was luring a teenage girl to a remote location for sex. Apparently our cops have enough time to role play as teenage girls on websites and gain the confidence of some thirty-year old white guy who wants to hookup. The guy then drives to a remote motel where he finds the cops awaiting. He then is booked for various crimes and has to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. The news story usually ends with the reporter instructing the viewers to not let their kids text or chat without adult supervision. Is the media in the UK now instructing their viewers to not let their girls be alone with pakis?

    Maybe some of our Missouri cops could do a liaison stint in the UK and help put an end to this nonsense.

    Is the media in the UK now instructing their viewers to not let their girls be alone with pakis?

    Of course not! But then you already knew that.

  83. Loathsome Nicky DeAss thinks that dousing 11 and 12 year old girls with gasoline and threatening to set them on fire if they don’t submit to gang rape is A-Ok. It’s really consensual in little Nicky’s twisted mind!

    However, every non-white person in the world has a fundamental right to move to America. If you disagree, you are evil and every other opinion you might hold on any subject is suspect. He knows your real agenda, racists!!!

    Re: auto-antonyms… I have often wondered at the process of words evolving to mean the opposite of what they originally meant. ‘Terrific’ used to mean terrifying, horrible but now means ‘great.’ The process speeds up with slang words. ‘Bad’ means ‘good’ (or it used to).

  84. @Ian
    gu said
    > I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap.

    It seems to me that there are few things as difficult in the world as a relatively civilized/evolved/moral/articulate/high functioning member of a social group who acts, as a group, relatively more barbaric/animalistic/immoral/low functioning. They often use forcefully presented articulate intelligence and reason to deny, explain, justify, or even celebrate the misadventures of their ethnic brothers and sisters. If these people really wanted to be on the side of evolution/civilization, they would have to take the difficult step of categorically criticizing many of their own people.

    It's like a comment I posted a few years back on one of the dark enlightenment sites, I forget which one (OneSTDV, maybe?):

    A few things I've noticed about black "intellectuals" and pundits (ie Aisha Harris, Al Sharpton, Alice Walker, Angela Davis, Armond White, bell hooks, Bob Herbert, Boyce Watkins, Charles Blow, Colbert King, Cornell West, Derrek Bell, DeWayne Wickham, Earl Ofari Hutchison, Eugene Robinson, Gwen Ifill, Henry Louis Gates, Jonathan Capehart, Lani Guinier, Leonard Pitts, Marc Lamont Hill, Melissa Harris-Perry, Michelle Alexander, Michael Eric Dyson, Nathan McCall, Nell Irvin Painter, Paul Butler, ProfessorCrunk Brittney Cooper, Raina Kelley, Randall Kennedy, Randall Robinson, Roland Martin, Stanley Crouch, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Touré, William C. Rhoden, Glenn C. Loury, William Raspberry, etc)

    * Their verbal output is predictably singular in subject: racism, race, black people, white people, oppression, the black experience, and, more than anything else, how white people should give black people more money, power, respect, legal clemency, etc.. They say not much of universal meaning, not much that moves society as a whole forward, not much that actually adds value. Shakespeare's love sonnets explore an emotion that all human beings feel, people of all races enjoy the convenience of the airplanes that the Wright brothers invented, and all races in America enjoy the fruits of the infrastructure that whites have built (the power grid, cell phone towers, air travel and roads, the internet, houses and stores, etc). But black "intellectuals" main output is simply to take value created by white people and claim it for blacks (and I would say the same for most black politicians in mixed race nations - MLK, Mandela, Obama, the members of the black congressional caucus, Trevor Phillips, etc.).

    * BIs often speak from a simple, uncomplicated, Manichean, Saturday morning cartoon-worthy worldview. It often seems that, to them, black people are completely morally good and deserving of more good things, and white people are completely morally wicked and deserving of fewer good things.

    * BIs verbal output often bring discomfort, guilt, and shame to any whites who accept them, and anger for those of us white people that reject them. And I think that BIs are intentional in inflicting this discomfort.

    * BIs often make excuses for, express sympathy for, and urge clemency for, violent, intimidating, aggressive, animalistic, and injurious street-level black thug behavior.

    * Gates, Davis, and some of the rest of BIs may be unusually intelligent, but much of what the others on that list write or say is of simple and of low quality - seems to me that most BIs are only in the public eye because of affirmative action, tokenism, or otherwise being graded on a curve. Most Charles Blow columns read like they were written by a teenager. The plot of "The Color Purple" was childish. Most of Ta-Nehisi Coates' arguments seem to consist, at essence, of him yelling "RACISM!!!".

    * Finally, some of the BIs seem to want to be accepted as full members of the white liberal knowledge worker class, and, in some cases, also to freely date white women, without anyone identifying them as "different". It is towards these ends that they push hard on the "race doesn't exist" and "there is nothing at all in any way relatively unusually [violent, unintelligent, savage, immoral, aggressive, uncivilized, etc] about black people as a whole" memes.

    [or, as Steve himself said a while back: "African-Americans tend to be highly racialist. That doesn’t mean they always treat each other well, unfortunately— by, say, not shooting each other. But, clearly, they welcome chances to express verbally their racial solidarity—which also provides career benefits for a not-insignificant stratum of the more articulate blacks."]

    If these people really wanted to be on the side of evolution/civilization, they would have to take the difficult step of categorically criticizing many of their own people.

    Whereas many intelligent whites, whether ‘left’ or ‘right’, will gleefully throw less able whites under the bus on the slightest pretext. Furthermore they will do this implicitly including all members of [insert non-white group here] as members of their own high value group.

  85. @gu
    People don't think that rape is acceptable as a result of Islam, that's for sure.

    I spoke to a Kurd around NYE 2012. He said that he would rape some random women if the world were to end. I was kind of shocked and couldn't believe what he said.

    You know what he DIDN'T say? "Man, who cares, Allah thinks rape is ok anyways."

    I knew guys essentially coercing a girl to give another guy a handjob for his birthday. He did this because he was a bonafide psychopath, not because he believed it was halal to do. (the same guy was also a thief and a drug user)

    So please, spare me your filth.

    “People don’t think that rape is acceptable as a result of Islam, that’s for sure.”

    Have you polled Muslem rapists? Proof by assertion? Seriously, when groups do something evil, you have to ask what binds the group. Is rape too mundane to be motivated by Islam? Perhaps religious motivation is reserved for big evil, like removing a head or taking down some skyscrapers.

    I really don’t understand the purpose of your anecdotes. You run into some f’d up people.

    “So please, spare me your filth.”

    Wonder how I can cleanse myself of my filth. Know any good rituals? I hate to be thought unclean.

    • Replies: @gu
    "Seriously, when groups do something evil, you have to ask what binds the group."

    Yeah, race and inbredness.

    You do know that more white muslims don't do this shit (Turks and Bosnians mostly just start fights like a bunch of pugilistic knuckleheads) while non muslim subcontinentals do, right?

    "Is rape too mundane to be motivated by Islam? "

    Yes. If I asked an Imam here is rape will score me points with Allah, he would probably slap me.

    "I really don’t understand the purpose of your anecdotes. You run into some f’d up people."

    The purpose of the anectdotes is to show that most muslim social pathogens are not motivated by religion but by a lack of empathy and higher sex/violence drives.

    If these pimps were truly religious, why did they smoke weed and drink vodka?

    Many of these guys are very irreligious. The religious ones are essentially Puritans. Pray 5 times a day, no alcohol, no extramarital sex, have a lot of kids, live a frugal and ascetic lifestyle with few indulgences.

    Fun fact: I knew a guy who went to a brothel with me. When we spoke to them hos, he actually tried to convince the ho to work for him.

    Maybe Pakistani have it in their blood to pimp, LOL.
    , @Curious Reader
    Wonder how I can cleanse myself of my filth. Know any good rituals? I hate to be thought unclean.

    Well, there's this little thing called the shahada...
  86. @Lurker

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.
     
    I can't speak for Steve but I just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations. Sure I would make some exceptions here and there but thats essentially my position. No need for 'excuses'.

    Whats you're background Nick claiming to be PoC or are you just a white sell-out?

    What’s your background…

  87. @Freddy
    Actually, the case of the Pakistani rapists and pimps is not an example of Islamic imperialism.

    The Pakistanis rape good Muslim girls in Pakistan all the time. Just web search for "Rape in Pakistan" and you'll get an eyeful. There's a rape in Pakistan every two hours. And a gang rape every 8 hours.

    The British girls aren't being raped because they're Christian, but because the Pakistanis find the white girls sexier.

    Doesn't it make you feel safe and secure to know it's not the Clash of Civilizations, but just good old fashioned evil?

    “The British girls aren’t being raped because they’re Christian, but because the Pakistanis find the white girls sexier.”

    I actually laughed.

  88. Gotta say, these knuckleheads weren’t behaving like true Muslims. True muslims know their 72 virgins await in the afterlife, they don’t need to try to take possession of them here in the real world.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    True muslims know their 72 virgins await in the afterlife,

    Yah.

    http://media.photobucket.com/user/RevengeOfTheCosmicSavior/media/nuns.jpg.html?filters[term]=nuns%20with%20guns&filters[primary]=images&filters[secondary]=videos&sort=1&o=1
    , @The most deplorable one

    True muslims know their 72 virgins await in the afterlife
     
    As someone pointed out, maybe that's 72 Raisins.
  89. @Freddy
    Actually, the case of the Pakistani rapists and pimps is not an example of Islamic imperialism.

    The Pakistanis rape good Muslim girls in Pakistan all the time. Just web search for "Rape in Pakistan" and you'll get an eyeful. There's a rape in Pakistan every two hours. And a gang rape every 8 hours.

    The British girls aren't being raped because they're Christian, but because the Pakistanis find the white girls sexier.

    Doesn't it make you feel safe and secure to know it's not the Clash of Civilizations, but just good old fashioned evil?

    “Actually, the case of the Pakistani rapists and pimps is not an example of Islamic imperialism…The Pakistanis rape good Muslim girls in Pakistan all the time.”

    I’m not one of those claiming this has anything to do with Islamic imperialism per se (though it may well have something to do with Islamic teaching), but the fact that there are rapists in Pakistan has little bearing on the matter one way or another. If somebody kills in the pursuit of jihad, the fact that there are other Muslims who murder for the sheer thrill of it does not disprove the motivations of the former.

  90. GU

    You seem to associate with a lot of criminal scum, is that what moderate Muslims like you do on a daily basis?

    And it never occurred to you to call the police. Wow, talk about a devout Muzzie.

    And your kind fill the prisons of Europe as well. That’s a bad sign. It’s either genetic from excessive inbreeding or a result of your religion and culture.

    And where were the Muslim protest marches and riots over Rotherham? All that’s right their were none. The Umma only cares for the Umma, infidels are fair game. You only protest when someone points out the evil side of Islam and it’s total incompatibility with the West or when some cartoonist makes fun of Mohammed. Then you guy want to murder us.

    What a people.

    And slavery still exists in Islam and is still sanctioned, that’s something you don’t want to talk about you son of a dog.

    It existed in Libya, still does in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Oil states who have no qualms of luring over Ethiopian, Pakistani, Hindu and Filipino workers, confiscating their passport and making them slaves. And it’s so prevalent among Saudi royalty that it’s a common thing here in the U.S.

    It’s so bad that the Philippine government has warned their people not to take jobs in the Arab states.

    Historically, Islam’s systematical enslavement of people has no parallel. So don’t go there.

    And Islam’s treatment of women. Is well barbaric like a lot of their practices. Female genital mutilation, honor killings, regular beatings, keeping them illiterate and having no voice, etc.

    It’s amazing how your religion turned one sex into disposable chattel.

    It stinks.

    I wish your people stayed in your Islamic hell holes. Your kind don’t belong in the West.

  91. @gu
    "The operative word here is “did”"

    Irrelevant. Point is, since a slaving people owned slaves even without the express sanction of God, it is proof positive that "They engaged in slavery, MUST BE ISLAM" is a silly argument.

    Moderate Muslims are everywhere. You just choose to ignore their existence. Thousands of flights land safely every day and you don't hear about that either.

    ”You know what he DIDN’T say? ‘Man, who cares, Allah thinks rape is ok anyways.’”

    But there are indeed Muslims who think that having sex with a 9-year-old (or with a slave) is fine, and use the Koran and the life of Muhammad to justify doing so. If you don’t see that as a big problem, then you’re part of that problem.

    “Moderate Muslims are everywhere.”

    No one here denies that there are many decent Muslims who would never have sex with a 9 year old. The problem is the number of those who do and who justify it scripturally, and who would consider it wrong to forbid such acts on the same basis. Objectively speaking, it is difficult to say that the latter are more faithful to their religion than the moderates, and since there is no central authority as to what is and is not true Islam — and a lot of resentment against any “reforms” that were introduced by way of the West, there will be more of a problem in such matters with the devout of Islam than with those of other religions.

    Buddhist monks have done some terrible things in the course of history, but if I had the choice of living next to zealous Buddhist, or a zealous Muslim, I’d probably choose the former — even if I were one of those moderate Muslims.

    • Replies: @gu
    "But there are indeed Muslims who think that having sex with a 9-year-old (or with a slave) is fine, and use the Koran and the life of Muhammad to justify doing so."

    This has most likely nothing to do with Rotherham, since the rapists readily ignored Islamic drug restrictions. They probably raped these girls because they could, not because it was sanctioned.

    The existence of such Muslims, does not justify the claim that Islam is to blame for this case.

    Black Christian rapists do that all the time. Islam isn't needed for this sort of act.
  92. @Ian
    @Art Deco -

    Thank you for the input. It seems clear that you know more than I do about the output/beliefs of some, many, or perhaps all of the folks on my list.

    I have added that list up over the years, name by name. The beliefs and "work" of some of the folks, I know way too well and have come across too often (ie Al Sharpton, Alice Walker, Angela Davis, bell hooks, Charles Blow, Cornell West, Ta-Nehisi Coates, and Touré). Many of the rest of the names on the list, however, I have added to it after coming across a single eye rolling blog post, newspaper article, or you tube video that seems to indicate that they fit the pattern of high-articulation race warriorship. As you say, perhaps in some cases adding a name to the list has not been completely fair or accurate.

    I find myself curious how you know so much about the people you mentioned. I find myself hypothesizing, on little evidence, that (1) you are someone whose life profile is not that different than some of the folks on that list (ie a member of the talented tenth), (2) an academic whose job it is to know about a lot of different things, or (3) just one of the many 140+ IQ white guys with regular jobs who roam around the dark enlightenment websphere, are curious about many different things, and are smart enough to retain specific knowledge after only one or two exposures to it.

    1. No I’m not talented.

    2. I’m blacker than Obama, but then so’s Gov. Blagojevich (and many many others with no melanin at all).

    3. I’ve wasted more time than I ever should have reading topical commentary and opinion, so I’ve heard of most of these people and read some of their work. As far as I can see ‘bell hooks’ is a performer of a sort: a woman who plays word games and engages in self-aggrandizing rhetorical play in a simulacrum of literary criticism (e.g. accusing Madonna Ciccone of ‘racist aggression’ for using an image of a negroid Jesus in one of her music videos). Critics of Cornell West (e.g. Leon Wieseltier) and Houston Baker (e.g. Terry Teachout) have maintained that their academic books are junk, gaseous and useless nonsense.

    4. A generation ago, Michael Kinsley offered the opinion from afar that Michael Jackson was a ruin and ruined because of his peculiar upbringing (performing in lieu of school and normal play) and getting a good deal of positive feedback for ‘remaining childlike and turning weird’ (‘babbling about misunderstood snakes’, &c). My guess about West and Baker and perhaps ‘hooks’ is that they were ruined by lack of honest feedback about their draft publications and got a mess of positive feedback for producing rococo verbiage which had nothing behind it. Others get sidetracked into the teacher training faculties. Others end up in the black studies niche. One institution I was employed at had a modest corps of black faculty of varying degrees of durability. I recall some whose research and teaching did not have a racial aspect. Two were West Indians (one an economist and the other a computer scientist) and the third was a very peripheral temporary faculty member, also a computer scientist. None of these were competing for a permanent faculty slot. There was a fourth fellow (from Idaho, as I recall) who abandoned his sociological studies (in criminology) and took a job in academic administration. Academe is damaging the black intelligentsia the way the race patronage system damaged the Obamas professional development.

  93. Interesting that this story breaks at exactly the same time that Muslim antisemitism events rises to press worthy levels (in the wake of certain events in Holy Land). Takeaways: A. This story was surpressed (that is the story) B. Don’t eff with the group that controls the media because they can decide to highlight anything at anytime and they know what you did last summer.

  94. @Kinstlinger
    Gotta say, these knuckleheads weren't behaving like true Muslims. True muslims know their 72 virgins await in the afterlife, they don't need to try to take possession of them here in the real world.
  95. @Whiskey
    Just wait. Libs will lower age of consent to nine. Muslims, Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, and Morgan Freeman will weep for jiy.

    Polanski was bloody guilty. Re Allen, it’s all pretty murky.

  96. iSteveFan says:

    Loathsome Nicky DeAss thinks that dousing 11 and 12 year old girls with gasoline and threatening to set them on fire if they don’t submit to gang rape is A-Ok. It’s really consensual in little Nicky’s twisted mind!

    Nice reply Enderby. You demolished his argument with that.

    Speaking of the multiculturalists, Nick I assume that is you, shouldn’t we have a zero tolerance policy for interracial and/or interethnic crime? I mean if we are destined to live in this giant multiculti love fest, the only way groups can peacefully co-exist is if each group keeps its hands off the others. Therefore, this crime should not only be judged by the violence, or lack of violence according to you, but also by the fact that one group crossed the line to prey upon the other. That fact alone should make those pakis persona non grata to any correct thinking commissar of the multicult.

  97. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lurker

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.
     
    I can't speak for Steve but I just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations. Sure I would make some exceptions here and there but thats essentially my position. No need for 'excuses'.

    Whats you're background Nick claiming to be PoC or are you just a white sell-out?

    “you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you”. “Nick Diaz”.

    That’s absolutely right sport. We don’t. No excuses or apologies. We want white countries to stay white. If non-whites immigrate to white countries then they are no longer white countries. As a white person, why would I want a non-white country over a white one? As a white person how exactly do i benefit from non-white immigration? How does being turned into a minority do me any good?

    • Replies: @Numinous
    When was the United States every a completely white country (like, say, Denmark)? There have always been sizeable numbers of native Americans, blacks, and mestizos. Are you planning on kicking them all out?
    Unless "white" is a cultural (and not a racial) term to you. But then, non-whites can and do get acculturated to American norms.
    Either way, your hankering for a white United States makes little sense.
  98. @Robinson
    "People don’t think that rape is acceptable as a result of Islam, that’s for sure."

    Have you polled Muslem rapists? Proof by assertion? Seriously, when groups do something evil, you have to ask what binds the group. Is rape too mundane to be motivated by Islam? Perhaps religious motivation is reserved for big evil, like removing a head or taking down some skyscrapers.

    I really don't understand the purpose of your anecdotes. You run into some f'd up people.

    "So please, spare me your filth."

    Wonder how I can cleanse myself of my filth. Know any good rituals? I hate to be thought unclean.

    “Seriously, when groups do something evil, you have to ask what binds the group.”

    Yeah, race and inbredness.

    You do know that more white muslims don’t do this shit (Turks and Bosnians mostly just start fights like a bunch of pugilistic knuckleheads) while non muslim subcontinentals do, right?

    “Is rape too mundane to be motivated by Islam? ”

    Yes. If I asked an Imam here is rape will score me points with Allah, he would probably slap me.

    “I really don’t understand the purpose of your anecdotes. You run into some f’d up people.”

    The purpose of the anectdotes is to show that most muslim social pathogens are not motivated by religion but by a lack of empathy and higher sex/violence drives.

    If these pimps were truly religious, why did they smoke weed and drink vodka?

    Many of these guys are very irreligious. The religious ones are essentially Puritans. Pray 5 times a day, no alcohol, no extramarital sex, have a lot of kids, live a frugal and ascetic lifestyle with few indulgences.

    Fun fact: I knew a guy who went to a brothel with me. When we spoke to them hos, he actually tried to convince the ho to work for him.

    Maybe Pakistani have it in their blood to pimp, LOL.

    • Replies: @anon
    "If these pimps were truly religious, why did they smoke weed and drink vodka?"

    People are good about rationalizing things. The 9/11 bombers were motivated by Islam. They drank and visited strippers. You can pretend that they were not following THE TRUE ISLAM but that's just a lame version of the no true Scotsman, and moreover, not particularly useful.
    , @Curious Reader
    Turks and Bosnians mostly just start fights like a bunch of pugilistic knuckleheads

    Most Bosnians and most westernized, urban Turks are bad Muslims. They maintain some of their traditions, but most don't truly believe in the word of Allah. We can thank Ataturk and Tito for taking burka-loving savages and dragging them into modernity. Good for the Turks and the Bosnians. But bad for devout Muslims, since it shows that the further one gets from Islam, the better off he is for it. Other Muslims invoking Bosnians and Turks in this kind of argument are just underscoring their own stupidity, hatefulness and lack of success.

    Basically, gu, you and your kind don't belong in the West. You are bad news wherever you show up, same as you have been ever since that psycho Mohammad had an idea. And whoever in the West doubts that, should do themselves a favour and read the Koran. It's all in there.

  99. @Nick Diaz
    @Steve Sailer

    "In contrast, for many years in England, Pakistani pimps have been luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery; but the English Establishment — police, political, and media — responded with a long Awareness Lowering campaign."

    Apples and oranges. The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point. Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable, but it is not nearly as vile as what happenes in Africa. There is no actual sexual assault in the case of white British girls being lured into prostitution, while there is definitely sexual assault in the case of armed men who kidnap and force women into prostitution. I am flabbergasted that you can't realize how dissimilar the two situations are. You are either not very bright, or are being disingenuous on purpose.

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don't want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.

    “Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you?”

    I’ll tell you the truth, speaking only for myself, not for Steve or anyone else.

    It depends on the non-whites. Chinese and Japanese often have much to offer: they are civilized and, on average, have higher IQs than non-Jewish whites. Indians sometimes. Even, on occasion, Africans.

    But as a general proposition, no, I don’t want non-whites immigrating to white Western nations. The most important reason has little to do with the people themselves. Their difference creates a fault line on which social and political strife almost always results. The difference problem applies to Chinese, and Japanese, too, but they tend to be intelligent and civilized enough to handle it.

  100. bomag [AKA "doombuggy"] says:

    Whats you’re background Nick claiming to be PoC or are you just a white sell-out?

    Cuban emigre. Initially a rah-rah pro-American, he has been turned by his handlers into a hard edged, racially aware political operative who knows that Whitey has got to go down for the eschaton to be achieved.

  101. First this is all still Feminist wah wah. Here is the link to the report by Prof Alexis Jay from the Rotherham city government site. It is 150 pages.

    file:///home/chronos/user/Downloads/Independent_inquiry_CSE_in_Rotherham.pdf

    It covers activity by the city for since 1997. And during that time the city developed programs to deal with this situation. It is not as if this all went on with the police and the city turning a blind eye to what was happening.

    Rotherham is a city in South Essex of around 250,000 people. It is an old steel mill town that had all of its “rust belt” industry dry up and is poorer than average. 23% of the population live in Council Houses and the report says the welfare government benefits per capita are higher than the British average.

    In general what the press and the report describe as “the children” were basically a bunch of street prostitutes. The report said that over 1/3 of those involved in this situation were already known to the British version of CPS for various reasons. Meaning the place was poor and a lot of the same went on that goes on wherever poor people live. Some of it is due to poverty and others are due to being people of low conscientiousness and making really stupid choices and stupid lifestyles. The press likes to refer to these girls as “vulnerable” or “confused”, low income girls, often with no father, mothers with drug abuse problems. But in the end, they were entitled white girls with an ass to peddle and they peddled it to swarthy brown men who are normally excluded from relationships with these sorts of precious little dears.

    The reason the police did not immediately sound the alarm about these Asian men “raping” these white girls , and this “grooming” them for prostitution, then in this “trafficking” them to other towns where they were “raped” by multiple men, and then the police showing “contempt” for the victims was that “victims” were prostitutes that were selling their precious little white asses for all the cash and prizes they could get by doing so. Basically when a lot of these situations came to light was for arrests for prostitution. These acts were entirely consensual and the word “rape” is used because of the letter of the law, any sex with a minor is considered “rape”. They were not only consensual but they were paid, they negotiated a price. And anyone that knows hookers knows what swell people they are.

    And then when the report was read, then the feminist press changes the narrative from mercenary little shits who knew exactly what they doing, were completely aware they were breaking the law, who acted with agency, because there was cash to be gained, to poor little babies, victims, abused at the hands of these heinous brown men. In investigations the police found the acts to be entirely consensual and in willful violation of the law. This idea of “trafficking” is some guys told the girls if they came to this other city, then there would be some customers for them. So they were carried over there where they did multiple men, pocketed the cash, probably quite a lot of it actually, and went home with a fat wallet and a smile on their face for letting some brown men touch their precious little white body parts.

    In the end, no matter diverse diversity gets, our feminist overseers will insure that the top of the heap in the diversity pile will always be precious little white women and girls. I am sure that the plight of Pakis in England is a very lonely ordeal. White women show all kinds of love to blacks, Africans, Caribbeans, but I am sure that Paki men are way way down the sexual food chain, subject to massive dismissal and rejection from pristine little English roses, even the white trash ones from the Council House neighborhoods in a poor shithole like Rotherham. And the police and city government was probably correct in assuming that if they took cases like these and made a big too-doo about them, them it would all blow up where the Pakistani community would receive undo anger became some Paki men were paying little white trash whores for sex.

    This idea of “grooming” them was what? They asked the little tramps if they wanted to have sex with some men for cash? And these notices of “threats” were probably all part and parcel of underground prostitution. Some girls were having tricks arranged by one guy and and another one came along and offered a better deal. So then the first guy used strong arm tactics to say “No you don’t. You gotta deal with me and you gotta stick to it”. And the whole 11 and 12 year old ages listed were not the norm. The report listed ages of 11 to 20 something. The majority were not these extremely young girls. And I don’t care if it is 11 or not, those girls knew they were breaking the law, they knew that prostitution is a crime in England. And the only reason they are portrayed as victims is exactly because they are girls. Boys would be sent of to reform school for participation in willful and organized conspiracies to break the law.

    And the investigations by the police uncovered exactly that these girls were acting with agency as prostitutes. The report lists several different “Operation Whatevers”, where this big push went on to find and arrest these heinous perpetrators of all of this “exploitation” of the little princesses. And in the end no or very few arrests were made.

    Sailor, really in my opinion, this is something for you to stay out of. It has the smell of Ferguson where there was this big push for the Great White Defendant, only to find that the whole thing was a big piece of crap. And this is the same way. The fems are looking to roast the Paki men at the stake and then all of the local men in the Rotherham police and Government, where in the end, the real perpetrators of this situation are the white girls who knew exactly what they were doing in peddling their Erotic Capital for cash and prizes.

    In the end, to me, the problem here is that the morals of girls and women have sunk so low that “you go gurl”-ism leads them all to believe that it is perfectly fine for any girl or woman to cash in on her sexuality and that all men should pay for the wonderful privilege of even being in the vicinity of her highness. And you know the rest, resources will get mobilized, fem jobs will be funded, and this big CSE (Child Sexual Exploitation) hullaballoo will create make work for the faithful. The failure of the local government is that it failed to recognize that all little white girls are special princesses and treat them as such. Instead these “neglectful criminals” trusted their lying eyes, as well as their experience as trained police officers, and saw the little dears as a bunch of criminal whores who willfully broke the law in trading their “charms” for cash and prizes.

    • Replies: @daggersedge
    Well, this story has really touched a nerve in your politically-correct body.

    First of all, prostitution is legal in the UK. Managing a brothel, pimping, and pandering are, however, not.

    The age of consent in England and Wales is 16, not 11 or 12.

    However you try to excuse it, Pakistani men - muslims, all of them - raped at least 1,400 white girls. The law - remember that - defines these girls as vulnerable people.

    Let me make this clear: Muslims raped at least 1,400 white girls and all you can do is make excuses for the rapists. All you can do is try to smear the victims.

    You can now congratulate yourself on what a wonderful caring person you are - as long as whoever it is for whom you are caring is not white.
    , @fnn
    Just one example of many:

    https://twitter.com/BadboyBNP/statuses/504686718071894016

    #Rotherham #Police forced one father to deliver his 13year old daughter to a gang of muslim rapists with the threat of arrest for racism.
     
    , @Dahlia
    But in the end, they were entitled white girls with an ass to peddle and they peddled it to swarthy brown men who are normally excluded from relationships with these sorts of precious little dears.

    You're evil and a pervert. If only there were more Grady Judds in the West.

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/polk-sheriff-grady-judd-makes-his-name-on-moral-outrage/1149570

    (For those, who don't know him, he's not a one-trick pony, and is tough and no-nonsense on
    all crime.)
    , @TWS
    You really are a nasty piece of work. Yes, Sailer should refrain from commenting on something so vile and systemic that it has taken decades to stop.

    We get it you are one of the 'red pill' crew and think that anything that tangentially might help women (well children in this case but in your hatred and ignorance they'll do) is part of the great feminist plot to keep you sexless and take your money.

    If this happened to one girl it would be a crime. But you need to show solidarity with your 'bros' and say this is just a frame up to blame Paki men because well they're men. Good on you pick a delusion and stick with it.
    , @vinteuil
    @Mark Minter: yours is the one & only interesting contrarian view, here.
  102. @HA
    ”You know what he DIDN’T say? 'Man, who cares, Allah thinks rape is ok anyways.'”

    But there are indeed Muslims who think that having sex with a 9-year-old (or with a slave) is fine, and use the Koran and the life of Muhammad to justify doing so. If you don’t see that as a big problem, then you’re part of that problem.

    "Moderate Muslims are everywhere."


    No one here denies that there are many decent Muslims who would never have sex with a 9 year old. The problem is the number of those who do and who justify it scripturally, and who would consider it wrong to forbid such acts on the same basis. Objectively speaking, it is difficult to say that the latter are more faithful to their religion than the moderates, and since there is no central authority as to what is and is not true Islam -- and a lot of resentment against any "reforms" that were introduced by way of the West, there will be more of a problem in such matters with the devout of Islam than with those of other religions.

    Buddhist monks have done some terrible things in the course of history, but if I had the choice of living next to zealous Buddhist, or a zealous Muslim, I’d probably choose the former -- even if I were one of those moderate Muslims.

    “But there are indeed Muslims who think that having sex with a 9-year-old (or with a slave) is fine, and use the Koran and the life of Muhammad to justify doing so.”

    This has most likely nothing to do with Rotherham, since the rapists readily ignored Islamic drug restrictions. They probably raped these girls because they could, not because it was sanctioned.

    The existence of such Muslims, does not justify the claim that Islam is to blame for this case.

    Black Christian rapists do that all the time. Islam isn’t needed for this sort of act.

    • Replies: @HA
    "The existence of such Muslims, does not justify the claim that Islam is to blame for this case."

    Again, you’re setting up straw men. The fact that these men don’t follow Islamic teaching to the letter is hardly proof that they are uninfluenced by Islamic views on sex slavery and sex with little girls. A fair number of caliphs over the centuries drank and took hash. You think that means that the harems they maintained, or their views on waging jihad in the West, were uninfluenced by what the Koran says?

    Likewise, no one is saying that Islam is the primary factor. Sure, these pimps were scum, first and foremost. But if you see no connection whatsoever between how this particular case played out and the fact that you ‘prophet’ just happened to rape a 9-year old (so that, to this day, it is exceedingly difficult to enact statutory rape laws protecting little girls in places like Pakistan that insist on living by the Koran), you’re kidding yourself. If you don’t think the Koran’s endorsement of sex slavery regarding kaffir women has no connection to this case whatsoever, then you’re part of the problem.

    So much for moderate Muslims like you.

    , @David R. Merridale
    The link to Islam is simply that this specific phenomenon of "grooming gangs" are found in Muslim, and only Muslim, immigrant communities. In Britain, for example, they're not found, to any significant extent, among Hindus, Sikhs, or whites, although these groups have been victims of grooming gangs. But Muslim grooming gangs are also found in the Netherlands, but there it's Moroccan and Turkish immigrants, not Pakistanis.

    I believe you when say the perpetrators of these crimes are not good Muslims, but something in Muslim culture is obvious at the root of this. I read a claim once that, in the United States, conservative, church-going, Evangelical men show the lowest rates of spousal abuse of any demographic group, but conservative, non-church-going, Evangelical men show the highest rate. Maybe something similar is going on with Muslims in Britain. Low-IQ, poorly brought-up Muslim kids pick their values from a smorgasbord of Islamic patriarchy and Western pornography and licentiousness.

    So there's that. But there's also the history of Muslim sexual slavery and contempt for non-Muslims. The Rotherham gangs may not be Islamic scholar, but they may still get this.
  103. “If I asked an Imam here is rape will score me points with Allah, he would probably slap me.”

    Good on him. But to make the question truly relevant, go ask a larger group of imams if sex with a 9 year old is or should be considered wrong, and I’ll wager you’ll get a more disturbing variety of responses.

  104. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Say the problem is Islam and you can deflect the accusations of racism you would’ve received had you blamed Pakistanis and Pakistani culture. Of course, then you’re called Islamophobic and receive a complimentary lecture on true Islam, but that diagnosis doesn’t stick when ISIS, Al-Nusra, and homegrown mujahideen are all over the news. So the reigning thought police have shied away from that line of attack, and you get to be a non-racist. Hurray!

    But the problem is still Pakistani (and Moroccan, and Lebanese, and Turkish) more than it is Islamic, even though these lowlifes happen to have religion in common. Bring the dregs of sexually conservative and strongly ingroup favoring societies to an environment of sexual anarchy, where the native young women look and act like… prostitutes (from their perspective, at least) and this kind of madness ensues.

    • Replies: @Curious Reader
    But the problem is still Pakistani (and Moroccan, and Lebanese, and Turkish) more than it is Islamic, even though these lowlifes happen to have religion in common. Bring the dregs of sexually conservative and strongly ingroup favoring societies to an environment of sexual anarchy, where the native young women look and act like… prostitutes (from their perspective, at least) and this kind of madness ensues.

    Yes, it's a total coincidence that all their cultures just happen to have so many striking similarities, and that they just happen to share the same religion. After all, everyone knows religion doesn't effect culture, no way. It's also a total coincidence that the Lebanese are less crazed than their neighbours. No patterns here whatsoever.

    And have you ever been to the smelly dump that is the MENA region? All women are prostitutes from their perspective. Even worse if they're not wearing proper Islamic garb. Even worse if they're not wearing Islamic garb at all. Way worse when the woman is blonde. They go crazy. It's like a zoo over there.

  105. @WhatEvvs
    Anyone who never heard of Brownmiller hasn't earned the right to speak about 2nd wave feminism. Yes, many Jews but the biggest name was Kate Millett and don't forget Ti-Grace Atkinson, and Germaine Greer.

    Brownmiller said that rape was the way that ALL men kept ALL women subjugated. This is like saying that hitting is the way that ALL mothers keep ALL children subjugated. It's really stupid. If all Brownie had said was that rape is power, then she would have been right. But she went well beyond that. Like a lot of feminists, I think she was borderline. (Millett and Firestone were plumb psycho.)

    Anyone who never heard of Brownmiller hasn’t earned the right to speak about 2nd wave feminism.

    I do concede that there’s a significant smattering of gentile women, generally bipolar, among the vanguard of the feminist movement(s).

  106. When is someone in England going to cut through the B.S. and put a stop to all of this? Do the upper classes have so much contempt for working class/underclass whites that they’d rather feed these young girls to the wolves than lift a finger? It may take a Travis Bickle-type character to expose the pimps, put fear in their hearts and put an end to this filthy mess.

    Meanwhile, England is turning more and more into a dangerous cesspool each decade. Full of no-go zones and divisive snobbery permeating the native population. It’s a broken society. I’m shocked at what it has turned into.

    How about young underclass white men? I don’t see them mating with brown and black women in large numbers anytime soon. Pakistani pimps are defiling their future mates. What are they doing about it? Do drugs, television and heavy binge drinking make them that apathetic? Does the pervading force of political correctness feminize this portion of the population so much and renders them unwilling to act?

    What does Simon from London have to say about all this?

  107. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “You do know that more white muslims don’t do this shit (Turks and Bosnians mostly just start fights like a bunch of pugilistic knucklehead”

    Balkan Moslems are well known for sex trafficking. I don’t know that Chechens are particularly into sex trafficking, but they cause many other problems and they’re white. You can’t really tell a Chechen from a Russian if you shave them clean. Meanwhile, Christian Arabs are largely civilized people, both in the Middle East and in the diaspora. You can try pretending this is about race, but it’s not for once.

  108. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @gu
    "Seriously, when groups do something evil, you have to ask what binds the group."

    Yeah, race and inbredness.

    You do know that more white muslims don't do this shit (Turks and Bosnians mostly just start fights like a bunch of pugilistic knuckleheads) while non muslim subcontinentals do, right?

    "Is rape too mundane to be motivated by Islam? "

    Yes. If I asked an Imam here is rape will score me points with Allah, he would probably slap me.

    "I really don’t understand the purpose of your anecdotes. You run into some f’d up people."

    The purpose of the anectdotes is to show that most muslim social pathogens are not motivated by religion but by a lack of empathy and higher sex/violence drives.

    If these pimps were truly religious, why did they smoke weed and drink vodka?

    Many of these guys are very irreligious. The religious ones are essentially Puritans. Pray 5 times a day, no alcohol, no extramarital sex, have a lot of kids, live a frugal and ascetic lifestyle with few indulgences.

    Fun fact: I knew a guy who went to a brothel with me. When we spoke to them hos, he actually tried to convince the ho to work for him.

    Maybe Pakistani have it in their blood to pimp, LOL.

    “If these pimps were truly religious, why did they smoke weed and drink vodka?”

    People are good about rationalizing things. The 9/11 bombers were motivated by Islam. They drank and visited strippers. You can pretend that they were not following THE TRUE ISLAM but that’s just a lame version of the no true Scotsman, and moreover, not particularly useful.

  109. @Freddy
    Actually, the case of the Pakistani rapists and pimps is not an example of Islamic imperialism.

    The Pakistanis rape good Muslim girls in Pakistan all the time. Just web search for "Rape in Pakistan" and you'll get an eyeful. There's a rape in Pakistan every two hours. And a gang rape every 8 hours.

    The British girls aren't being raped because they're Christian, but because the Pakistanis find the white girls sexier.

    Doesn't it make you feel safe and secure to know it's not the Clash of Civilizations, but just good old fashioned evil?

    I’m sure Pakistani rapists enjoy raping Pakistani girls. But raping non-Muslim girls gives them that sort of enjoyment, plus the additional thrill of raping kaffirs. For a pious Muslim, things don’t get much better than that. Britain is Jannah on earth for Muslims.

    Westerners, even non-PC ones, often can’t quite grasp how important religion is to so many Muslims. It is the literal word of god, it’s all-consuming, it’s everything. There are quite a few Muslims who don’t hate “infidels”. But they’re not good, pious Muslims. They claim to be Muslims, but some might not even have read the Koran. Some might even become apostates if it wasn’t such a dangerous decision for so many of them. But good Muslims, those who truly believe in their religion, hate infidels. It’s what the most important entity in their lives teaches them to do. You can’t be a good Muslim without hating infidels, non-hateful piety is an oxymoron in Islam.

    • Replies: @gu
    You're a fool as well.

    Just because you chose to glean that from the book, doesn't mean they also glean it. (though some do)

    Bottom line: most muslims are "bad muslims". Therefore, your argument is invalid.

    This entire thing rests on the assumption that Islamic theology is the reason that these rapes are happening. Anyone who knows the Paki (Indian) tendency to rape, will know that this is garbage of the smelliest kind. Those guys were vodka drinking potheads. They weren't good Muslims either.

    In other words, you're a fould creature that wilfully bends reality in a way that would make the NYT proud.
  110. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    To Nick Diaz:

    Why should whites want non-white immigration? Where is the gain or benefit? I argued this point on another site with a belligerent Chinese immigrant in Toronto, where I live. He never once said anything to suggest that Canada as a whole, or whites specifically, gained anything by it. He just used the cultural Marxist, “Indians were here first, Indians were killed by smallpox, blah, blah blah.” All of which was far more true in places like heavily settled Mexico then almost empty sixteenth-century Canada. So how come there was/is no Chinese “right” to move to Mexico? Or Peru? He couldn’t answer any question i asked of him and never gave any reason why any self-respecting white person should think the racial transformation of Toronto or Vancouver was a “good” thing. I made him sound like a fool.I would have had more respect for him if he had just come out and said that non-white immigration from the third world to white countries was a punishment.

    The key here is self-respecting white person. Self-hating whites have been brainwashed by Jewish cultural Marxism into cheering their racial dispossession. But not ALL of us are stupid Senor Diaz.

  111. @gu
    "Seriously, when groups do something evil, you have to ask what binds the group."

    Yeah, race and inbredness.

    You do know that more white muslims don't do this shit (Turks and Bosnians mostly just start fights like a bunch of pugilistic knuckleheads) while non muslim subcontinentals do, right?

    "Is rape too mundane to be motivated by Islam? "

    Yes. If I asked an Imam here is rape will score me points with Allah, he would probably slap me.

    "I really don’t understand the purpose of your anecdotes. You run into some f’d up people."

    The purpose of the anectdotes is to show that most muslim social pathogens are not motivated by religion but by a lack of empathy and higher sex/violence drives.

    If these pimps were truly religious, why did they smoke weed and drink vodka?

    Many of these guys are very irreligious. The religious ones are essentially Puritans. Pray 5 times a day, no alcohol, no extramarital sex, have a lot of kids, live a frugal and ascetic lifestyle with few indulgences.

    Fun fact: I knew a guy who went to a brothel with me. When we spoke to them hos, he actually tried to convince the ho to work for him.

    Maybe Pakistani have it in their blood to pimp, LOL.

    Turks and Bosnians mostly just start fights like a bunch of pugilistic knuckleheads

    Most Bosnians and most westernized, urban Turks are bad Muslims. They maintain some of their traditions, but most don’t truly believe in the word of Allah. We can thank Ataturk and Tito for taking burka-loving savages and dragging them into modernity. Good for the Turks and the Bosnians. But bad for devout Muslims, since it shows that the further one gets from Islam, the better off he is for it. Other Muslims invoking Bosnians and Turks in this kind of argument are just underscoring their own stupidity, hatefulness and lack of success.

    Basically, gu, you and your kind don’t belong in the West. You are bad news wherever you show up, same as you have been ever since that psycho Mohammad had an idea. And whoever in the West doubts that, should do themselves a favour and read the Koran. It’s all in there.

    • Replies: @gu
    You're an idiot.

    We're not talking about Ataturk here, we're talking about natural violent tendencies ala blacks.

    White muslims act way better than Pakis. I wonder why...
  112. There’s so much I still don’t get about this situation. In America, it seems blacks get favoritism and a pass because of slavery but also because of their pop culture success. For better or worse, it’s tough to root for blacks all weekend on the field then want them gone during the week.

    What do pakis do for Britain? Why is the white left protecting them? Is it just hatred for the working class?

    As far as conservatives go, we must use the left’s own tactics to defeat them. Racist, sexist and homophobe must be treated as slurs and their users as fascists who want to stifle dissent. The left is winning because of verbal shaming and aggression-turn it back on them.

  113. @Robinson
    "People don’t think that rape is acceptable as a result of Islam, that’s for sure."

    Have you polled Muslem rapists? Proof by assertion? Seriously, when groups do something evil, you have to ask what binds the group. Is rape too mundane to be motivated by Islam? Perhaps religious motivation is reserved for big evil, like removing a head or taking down some skyscrapers.

    I really don't understand the purpose of your anecdotes. You run into some f'd up people.

    "So please, spare me your filth."

    Wonder how I can cleanse myself of my filth. Know any good rituals? I hate to be thought unclean.

    Wonder how I can cleanse myself of my filth. Know any good rituals? I hate to be thought unclean.

    Well, there’s this little thing called the shahada…

  114. @anon
    "Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. "

    6. Consummated at 9. He's still your prophet?

    6. Consummated at 9. He’s still your prophet?

    He’s not just a prophet to them. He’s the perfect man, to be emulated in all things. And beheading and rape just happen to have been some of his favourite pastimes.

  115. Sorry, the link in my previous comment to the Jay Report was to the downloaded version on my machine. Here is the link to the page where you can get the pdf.
    http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham

  116. @George
    "luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery"

    I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    The Rotherham teenagers, not really girls, were raped only in the sense that they had not reached the age of consent. If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else. They went with the highest bidder. That's a sad state of affairs but, it is what it is.

    The reality TV program Benefits Street describes the situation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits_Street

    I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else.

    Ah well, that’s ok then. Let’s douse all those silly, lower class girls in petrol and gang-rape them then. Or will you make an exception for the 12-year-olds at least, since they’re not teenagers yet?

    Maybe you’re just trolling, but either way, you’re disgusting.

  117. I am flabbergasted that you can’t realize how dissimilar the two situations are. You are either not very bright, or are being disingenuous on purpose.

    LOL!!!

    Is that you, Comrade Lysenko?

  118. 12 year old girls beaten and raped by smelly, violent invaders. Thousands of them. The fact that every Pakistani in Britain is not afraid of a severe beating and torture by actual brits says the British men themselves need a kick in the ass.

    • Replies: @gu
    "The fact that every Pakistani in Britain is not afraid of a severe beating and torture by actual brits says the British men themselves need a kick in the ass."

    Why on earth would completely innocent Pakis be deserving of torture?

    Are you mentally ill?
  119. It depends on the non-whites. Chinese and Japanese often have much to offer: they are civilized and, on average, have higher IQs than non-Jewish whites.

    Japanese, yes. Chinese, not so much.

    Unless, of course, you like lead in your kids’ toys and melamine in their formula.

    I’ll take a redneck neighbor over a Chinese or Indian PhD any day of the year.

    • Replies: @Numinous
    You had a Chinese/Indian PhD neighbor who put lead in your kids' toys?
  120. @gu
    "Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet"

    Proof by assertion.

    "At this moment of shame for your religion"

    .......WHAT

    How on earth do you make yourself believe that this makes sense?

    Listen to yourself: you literally take a case of a bunch of lowlifes engaging in rape and SOMEHOW relate this to the religion they believe in.

    Why is it always related to their professed religion whenever one of these thugs does something wrong? When Joseph Fritzl got arrested for keeping that rape cave or that pedo ring in Belgium (Marc Dutroux) came up, NOBOD related it thus.

    You are mentally ill.

    "one would expect some contrition room the Muslim community."

    I have no idea what this means. But I'm not going to cut myself because a bunch of Pakistani did that. They're filth. So what? Why would I have to apologize?

    " Instead, you tell us how much we should respect you."

    No not really. I just think it's pathetic to bring up religion when most Muslims believe that raping children is sinful, despite your hostile, biased interpretation of Islam. Pakistani rape for the same reason why other, high frequency rapist people rape. Black people rape frequently as well. I don't see you indicting Protestant Christianity.

    You act as if I have no experience of living with Muslims. I have and I don’t like it. London and Paris are full of Muslims. There are/were dozens of these gangs. They were almost exclusively South Asian. Their victims were indigenous. That’s a pattern.

    We are under siege from Islamic invaders bringing their benighted culture with them. I have watched town after town change demographically and be turned into a Third World sh1th0le.

    We hear time and time again that Islam is beautiful and that those who behave badly are few in number. That is codswallop to anyone who has any experience of living in Dewsbury, Luton or St Etienne.

    We were so much better off without you. I don’t care how advanced you were in the tenth century. That was then. This is now.

    • Replies: @David R. Merridale
    I don’t care how advanced you were in the tenth century. That was then. This is now.

    Islamic artists, philosophers, and scientists did in fact make some genuine contributions to world culture in the early centuries, but a lot of what they're credited with was just gathering up fragments of the Roman, Greek, and Persian cultures that they'd smashed. And often it was their Christian and Zoroastrian subjects who did the heavy lifting, salvaging the wreckage of their traditions.

    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West. You know, if they hadn't destroyed the ancient Graeco-Roman cultures of Antioch, Damascus, and Alexandria, we'd have got those works directly, not through poor-quality double translations.

  121. “I would be willing to bet that most, if not all of those Pakistani Muslims involved in these crimes had heard Maududi’s teachings (& many others) in one form or another. Even if they weren’t aware of Maududi in some way, there are plenty of other prominent and influential Muslim religious leader who proclaim something similar like the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdul-Aziz ibn Abdullah Al-ash Shayekh who believes that marrying and then having sex with 10 year olds is acceptable in Islam….10 year olds, Dude…Of course, there’s also prominent Saudi scholar Saleh Al-Fawzan who has declared that slavery is very much a part of Islam and those who proclaim otherwise really have no basis for their claims.”

    Being from near that part of the UK, that is very doubtful. The men perpetrating this would be the typical thugs with low IQs and minimal life prospects who would go to a mosque very infrequently. The concept of them being familiar with the pronouncements of Saudi Islamic scholars is laughable. They would struggle to read the back of cereal packets.

    • Replies: @Curious Reader
    The concept of them being familiar with the pronouncements of Saudi Islamic scholars is laughable. They would struggle to read the back of cereal packets.

    No advanced reading required. Youtube and social media are brimming with Islamic "scholarship".
  122. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Exactly right, Steve.
    The point that must be remembered that feminism these dasys is just another hydra-head of the far left. All part of that great big, cuddly ‘rainbow coalition’ as evinced by the modern Democrat Party and its British facsimile the Labour Party. These days leftism means not giving a damn about redistribution of workers rights but in attacking and destroying white men and in giving all the goodies which care supposedly held by white men to anyone who is not a white man – this includes billions upon billions of third world potential immigrants who basically have never even set foot in the west. This the lefties call ‘progressive’ or even ‘righteous’.
    What must be realized is that we are dealing with an extremely sick and nasty death cult here, shades of Jim Jones Guyana 1978, and not with politics as it was previously understood. IMHO it’s a sicker and more pernicious threat than islamism is or ever will be. Just look at the horrific damage Tony Blair’s New Labour wrought on Britain. Unfortunately the lkefty death cult has power and will again wield power in western nations. Islamism hasn’t reached that status yet, but will do BH mid century due to the lefty death cult.

  123. @Nick Diaz
    @Steve Sailer

    "In contrast, for many years in England, Pakistani pimps have been luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery; but the English Establishment — police, political, and media — responded with a long Awareness Lowering campaign."

    Apples and oranges. The pimps in England are TALKING the girls into prostitution, and not kidnapping them(in most cases) and forcing them at gun point. Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable, but it is not nearly as vile as what happenes in Africa. There is no actual sexual assault in the case of white British girls being lured into prostitution, while there is definitely sexual assault in the case of armed men who kidnap and force women into prostitution. I am flabbergasted that you can't realize how dissimilar the two situations are. You are either not very bright, or are being disingenuous on purpose.

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don't want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.

    Read my lips.

    I OPPOSE LARGE-SCALE NON-WHITE IMMIGRATION.

    Is that clear? There can be SOME exceptions like that Iranian woman who just won a Fields Medal, but essentially I prefer my own society and my own people. I have lived in Japan and Korea and they overwhelmingly share my views. Take a walk through Tokyo some time.

    Holland was better when it was Dutch and England when it was English. Japan is a stronger and better society because it is not multicultural.

  124. There is no actual sexual assault in the case of white British girls being lured into prostitution,

    OK: You are obviously very gay. Or sterile.

    No father, or even a potential father, would even think such a thing.

  125. Roissy/Heartiste said famously that Feminism is about maximizing female sexual freedom, Alpha Male sexual freedom, and limiting that of beta males to … nothing. You might argue that feminists ultimate enemy is beta males, who not being sexy they’d like to castrate or turn gay or exterminate.

    This is nothing new. Feminism benefits ordinary women tremendously, they can have all the Alpha males they want (just not commitment from them but sex sure). Look at Arnold’s Maid, the one he fathered a kid with. Not exactly a face that launched a thousand ships. Not even a face that launched a boogie board. Poverty and violence and misery go along with that, but women would rather starve with a sexy Alpha now and then, than eat regularly with a non-sexy beta male.

    One of the reasons women are so fat now is that they CAN BE. And still get sex. See Arnold’s maid.

    Also feminism is an upper class phenomena. Richer White women with money raging against the patriarchy. That is … unsexy White beta males. Not real patriarchs raping twelve year olds. No not them. THOSE GUYS they can’t get enough of — the number of women converting to Islam in the UK vastly exceeds those of men.

    Finally, Roissy had in his twitter feed a retweet of an observation that Liberalism is all part of a sadomasochistic religion with various penances: jogging, vegetarianism, tofu, soy milk, green recycling, “green” anti-combustion engine activism, and race cuckoldry. Racial penance for rich White people being born rich and White. Enforced Vibrancy is like what Steve said on his old site — the best way to prevent kids from forming racist outlooks is for them not to get their heads beat in by kids of other races.

    We live in the most religious age. Women in particular are the most religious. Its just not Christianity they are religious about anymore, but SWPL-ism, racial penance, “cleansing,” and bogus “healing” rituals where some fat Black woman with “sassy” attitude changes around their life: Oprah, Viola Davis in her new series, the ladies on the View, etc. Personally I’d look elsewhere for wisdom than Queen Latifah or Whoopi Goldberg, but that’s just me. I’m not a chick.

    • Replies: @Lurker

    Also feminism is an upper class phenomena. Richer White women with money raging against the patriarchy. That is … unsexy White beta males. Not real patriarchs raping twelve year olds. No not them. THOSE GUYS they can’t get enough of — the number of women converting to Islam in the UK vastly exceeds those of men.
     
    The women converting are not upper class, they are those forced to live around Muslims.
    , @Art Deco
    Also feminism is an upper class phenomena.

    I don't think consuming works by Kate Millet is a patrician hobby. Academic and journalistic feminism (writing on social relations which takes as points of departure the notion that women have options and men have obligations and that only the interests of women are important) is a phenomenon among the class which produces it - the professional-managerial bourgeoisie and dependents and hangers-on thereof. Popular feminism (the tendency to look upon men as pets, ATM machines, and employees, and, in any state, disposable and responsible for all domestic problems) is all over (but not evenly distributed). Now, as was the case fifty years ago, the most unstable households tend to be wage-earning households (for whatever reason).
  126. I keep waiting for the evidence of “Moderate Muslims.” Now where are they? Where were they when the 1993 WTC Bombers nearly brought the towers down, and they were known throughout the community as hard core jihadi terrorists. Where were the moderate Muslims? Where were the moderate Muslims when a group of the 9/11 hijackers trained in San Diego and spouted off about Jihad? Where were they? Where were the moderate Muslims in Afghanistan when the Taliban was informed in advance of the plot? Where were the moderate Muslims in both Iraq and Iran when the hijackers transited both nations without a single passport stamp to facilitate the plot? Where were the moderate Muslims in the beheading of Theo Van Gogh? Where were they? Where were the moderate Muslims when ISIS was beheading Christians and Yazidis in Iraq. After all, Iraq is FULL OF MUSLIMS, and weapons, everyone has them.

    Its not like Nazi Germany. There Germans may not have liked Hitler but being disarmed totally could do nothing. Even so more than a few revolted and were tortured and beheaded for their actions — the White Rose group, a bunch of students really, besides the Prussian plotters. Heck Iraq is filled with weapons and not a single group of Muslims came to the rescue of the Christians or the Yazidis. It was American air power that saved them.

    Then we have Rotherham. The entire community knew. The prosecutor knew, and being both Muslim AND Paki he did nothing. The cops knew, and being Muslim and Paki did nothing. The fathers of the men involved did nothing to stop it, for all I know they likely joined in.

    Over and over and over again, “Moderate Muslims” are promised but NEVER EVER APPEAR.

    So being an Empiricist I put Moderate Muslims on a par with Unicorns, Manticores, Hippogriffs, and other mythical and entirely fictional beasts. They don’t exist. They lack even the courage of a Sophie Scholl, a girl of only nineteen. [Tortured and beheaded by the Nazis for passing out literature decrying the Holocaust and the War — and yes she knew what the result would be.]

    Muslims range from active to passive Jihad supporters. That’s it. That’s why they belong in Muslim countries only where they can engage in the usual Muslim past-times of beheadings (Muslim love to do that), killing gays, JIHAD! and other Muslim activities.

    • Replies: @gu
    "Muslims range from active to passive Jihad supporters. "

    Whiskey, you're a Jew. Nobody believs what you say about Muslims.
  127. @NOTA
    That would be prostitution engaged in by adult women with some choices, not by 15 year olds more or less owned by pimps. That argument may be right or wrong, but at least be clear what is and isn't being argued for.

    That would be prostitution engaged in by adult women with some choices, not by 15 year olds more or less owned by pimps. That argument may be right or wrong, but at least be clear what is and isn’t being argued for.

    There are feminists who argue that what we in the West consider under-aged girls engaging in prostitution overseas is “empowering.” Some of them were and are opponents of “moralistic” American efforts to curb sex trafficking (frequently of minors) overseas.

    Besides, exploitation is exploitation. There are certainly different levels of depravity and exploitation but if you think that adult sex workers are free-willing agents of moral choice, you don’t know much about the illicit sex industry or the women who work in it. There is extremely high levels of drug abuse as well as physical and mental abuse/pressure by the men who control them.

    In any case, the point I made earlier was that the so-called feminists aren’t really about protecting and empowering women per se, but more about destroying Christian “patriarchy.”

    • Replies: @gu
    " There are certainly different levels of depravity and exploitation but if you think that adult sex workers are free-willing agents of moral choice, you don’t know much about the illicit sex industry or the women who work in it. There is extremely high levels of drug abuse as well as physical and mental abuse/pressure by the men who control them."

    May God save us of small white knights with big egos.
  128. @jackson
    Never heard of this Susan Brownmiller before. The fraction of feminists who are Jews appears to be approaching singularity.

    Isn’t it more that of all feminists few are Jewish women but all of Jewish women most are feminists.

  129. ” In the first decade of the 21st Century, those who protested were ignored, censored, or sent to diversity sensitivity training. ”

    okay but you are leaving out the outrageous cooperation of police, who treated the lower class girls like dirt, even arresting a 12-year-old for being naked with five men (and let the men go), calling them names, even worse. You think it all traces back to PC fears? There’s more to the story here.

    Yes, it’s disgusting how progressive feminist twitter activists are ignoring the story, and shows their hypocrisy, but I’m not ready to blame the whole thing on political correctness.

    The cops were scumbags- they were in on it.

  130. “There’s so much I still don’t get about this situation. In America, it seems blacks get favoritism and a pass because of slavery but also because of their pop culture success. For better or worse, it’s tough to root for blacks all weekend on the field then want them gone during the week.

    What do pakis do for Britain? Why is the white left protecting them? Is it just hatred for the working class?

    As far as conservatives go, we must use the left’s own tactics to defeat them. Racist, sexist and homophobe must be treated as slurs and their users as fascists who want to stifle dissent. The left is winning because of verbal shaming and aggression-turn it back on them.”

    Where would you rank Pakistanis among the most violent Nonwhite ethnic groups in the world ? Easily top 5 right ?

  131. @Mark Minter
    First this is all still Feminist wah wah. Here is the link to the report by Prof Alexis Jay from the Rotherham city government site. It is 150 pages.

    file:///home/chronos/user/Downloads/Independent_inquiry_CSE_in_Rotherham.pdf

    It covers activity by the city for since 1997. And during that time the city developed programs to deal with this situation. It is not as if this all went on with the police and the city turning a blind eye to what was happening.

    Rotherham is a city in South Essex of around 250,000 people. It is an old steel mill town that had all of its "rust belt" industry dry up and is poorer than average. 23% of the population live in Council Houses and the report says the welfare government benefits per capita are higher than the British average.

    In general what the press and the report describe as "the children" were basically a bunch of street prostitutes. The report said that over 1/3 of those involved in this situation were already known to the British version of CPS for various reasons. Meaning the place was poor and a lot of the same went on that goes on wherever poor people live. Some of it is due to poverty and others are due to being people of low conscientiousness and making really stupid choices and stupid lifestyles. The press likes to refer to these girls as "vulnerable" or "confused", low income girls, often with no father, mothers with drug abuse problems. But in the end, they were entitled white girls with an ass to peddle and they peddled it to swarthy brown men who are normally excluded from relationships with these sorts of precious little dears.

    The reason the police did not immediately sound the alarm about these Asian men "raping" these white girls , and this "grooming" them for prostitution, then in this "trafficking" them to other towns where they were "raped" by multiple men, and then the police showing "contempt" for the victims was that "victims" were prostitutes that were selling their precious little white asses for all the cash and prizes they could get by doing so. Basically when a lot of these situations came to light was for arrests for prostitution. These acts were entirely consensual and the word "rape" is used because of the letter of the law, any sex with a minor is considered "rape". They were not only consensual but they were paid, they negotiated a price. And anyone that knows hookers knows what swell people they are.

    And then when the report was read, then the feminist press changes the narrative from mercenary little shits who knew exactly what they doing, were completely aware they were breaking the law, who acted with agency, because there was cash to be gained, to poor little babies, victims, abused at the hands of these heinous brown men. In investigations the police found the acts to be entirely consensual and in willful violation of the law. This idea of "trafficking" is some guys told the girls if they came to this other city, then there would be some customers for them. So they were carried over there where they did multiple men, pocketed the cash, probably quite a lot of it actually, and went home with a fat wallet and a smile on their face for letting some brown men touch their precious little white body parts.

    In the end, no matter diverse diversity gets, our feminist overseers will insure that the top of the heap in the diversity pile will always be precious little white women and girls. I am sure that the plight of Pakis in England is a very lonely ordeal. White women show all kinds of love to blacks, Africans, Caribbeans, but I am sure that Paki men are way way down the sexual food chain, subject to massive dismissal and rejection from pristine little English roses, even the white trash ones from the Council House neighborhoods in a poor shithole like Rotherham. And the police and city government was probably correct in assuming that if they took cases like these and made a big too-doo about them, them it would all blow up where the Pakistani community would receive undo anger became some Paki men were paying little white trash whores for sex.

    This idea of "grooming" them was what? They asked the little tramps if they wanted to have sex with some men for cash? And these notices of "threats" were probably all part and parcel of underground prostitution. Some girls were having tricks arranged by one guy and and another one came along and offered a better deal. So then the first guy used strong arm tactics to say "No you don't. You gotta deal with me and you gotta stick to it". And the whole 11 and 12 year old ages listed were not the norm. The report listed ages of 11 to 20 something. The majority were not these extremely young girls. And I don't care if it is 11 or not, those girls knew they were breaking the law, they knew that prostitution is a crime in England. And the only reason they are portrayed as victims is exactly because they are girls. Boys would be sent of to reform school for participation in willful and organized conspiracies to break the law.

    And the investigations by the police uncovered exactly that these girls were acting with agency as prostitutes. The report lists several different "Operation Whatevers", where this big push went on to find and arrest these heinous perpetrators of all of this "exploitation" of the little princesses. And in the end no or very few arrests were made.

    Sailor, really in my opinion, this is something for you to stay out of. It has the smell of Ferguson where there was this big push for the Great White Defendant, only to find that the whole thing was a big piece of crap. And this is the same way. The fems are looking to roast the Paki men at the stake and then all of the local men in the Rotherham police and Government, where in the end, the real perpetrators of this situation are the white girls who knew exactly what they were doing in peddling their Erotic Capital for cash and prizes.

    In the end, to me, the problem here is that the morals of girls and women have sunk so low that "you go gurl"-ism leads them all to believe that it is perfectly fine for any girl or woman to cash in on her sexuality and that all men should pay for the wonderful privilege of even being in the vicinity of her highness. And you know the rest, resources will get mobilized, fem jobs will be funded, and this big CSE (Child Sexual Exploitation) hullaballoo will create make work for the faithful. The failure of the local government is that it failed to recognize that all little white girls are special princesses and treat them as such. Instead these "neglectful criminals" trusted their lying eyes, as well as their experience as trained police officers, and saw the little dears as a bunch of criminal whores who willfully broke the law in trading their "charms" for cash and prizes.

    Well, this story has really touched a nerve in your politically-correct body.

    First of all, prostitution is legal in the UK. Managing a brothel, pimping, and pandering are, however, not.

    The age of consent in England and Wales is 16, not 11 or 12.

    However you try to excuse it, Pakistani men – muslims, all of them – raped at least 1,400 white girls. The law – remember that – defines these girls as vulnerable people.

    Let me make this clear: Muslims raped at least 1,400 white girls and all you can do is make excuses for the rapists. All you can do is try to smear the victims.

    You can now congratulate yourself on what a wonderful caring person you are – as long as whoever it is for whom you are caring is not white.

  132. Rape of another ethnicity is the ultimate display of power and strength over another ethic group …. Think of orders by nave officers when the soviets entered Berlin.

    Our elite support what it s being done. – literally, we have seen, because it supports their agenda. They will fumble along, as with illegal immigration, and pretend to act but hey will continue to let it occur.

    Tellingly, the board of deputies of British Jews issued a joint statement with Islamic groups deploring not this, but islamaphobia , not hard to see why

    Behavior like this, and Christians place on the totem poll, echos their so called golden age of moorish Spain. May Isabella rise again!

  133. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’m old enough to remember one of the great ‘triumphs’ of UK feminism, that is getting the Miss World contest off UK TV screens. When enough of them had infiltrated the highest echelons of the BBC, we were quickly lectured that the biggest annual TV draw in British television was ‘out of date’, and so the Miss World contest, which used to be held at the Albert Hall vanished from UK TV screens for good – Britain is probably the only nation in the non hard core Muslim world where it is impossible to see it.
    And they also went gunning for dear old Benny Hill, Britain’s greatest ever comic genius and an international TV sensation – apparently a few knicker shots and titty gags were more than the feminist as could bear.
    It’s all rather ironic how the feminist as were ruthless, uncompromising and fanatical in their determination to destroy the few innocuous pleasures of the British working man and yet are as silent as lambs about the wholesale systematic statutory rape campaigns against 12 year olds instigated by Pakistanis. Oh, I forget, the only enemy the feminist as recognise is the working class white man with his copy of The Sun, his pint of bitter and his Benny Hill show.

  134. @Anonymous
    "you just don't want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you". "Nick Diaz".

    That's absolutely right sport. We don't. No excuses or apologies. We want white countries to stay white. If non-whites immigrate to white countries then they are no longer white countries. As a white person, why would I want a non-white country over a white one? As a white person how exactly do i benefit from non-white immigration? How does being turned into a minority do me any good?

    When was the United States every a completely white country (like, say, Denmark)? There have always been sizeable numbers of native Americans, blacks, and mestizos. Are you planning on kicking them all out?
    Unless “white” is a cultural (and not a racial) term to you. But then, non-whites can and do get acculturated to American norms.
    Either way, your hankering for a white United States makes little sense.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    America was about 90% white until at least 1960. Saying it was NOT a white country is basically false.
  135. @Razib Khan
    Where is Unz's guru on Islam, Razib Khan, on all this?


    working on a paper revision. i have always had real work to do. just because i don't talk about my non-blog life that much doesn't mean that i don't have it. i did have time to comment on this is a little on facebook and brownpundits.
  136. @Paul Mendez
    It depends on the non-whites. Chinese and Japanese often have much to offer: they are civilized and, on average, have higher IQs than non-Jewish whites.

    Japanese, yes. Chinese, not so much.

    Unless, of course, you like lead in your kids' toys and melamine in their formula.

    I'll take a redneck neighbor over a Chinese or Indian PhD any day of the year.

    You had a Chinese/Indian PhD neighbor who put lead in your kids’ toys?

  137. @Mark Minter
    First this is all still Feminist wah wah. Here is the link to the report by Prof Alexis Jay from the Rotherham city government site. It is 150 pages.

    file:///home/chronos/user/Downloads/Independent_inquiry_CSE_in_Rotherham.pdf

    It covers activity by the city for since 1997. And during that time the city developed programs to deal with this situation. It is not as if this all went on with the police and the city turning a blind eye to what was happening.

    Rotherham is a city in South Essex of around 250,000 people. It is an old steel mill town that had all of its "rust belt" industry dry up and is poorer than average. 23% of the population live in Council Houses and the report says the welfare government benefits per capita are higher than the British average.

    In general what the press and the report describe as "the children" were basically a bunch of street prostitutes. The report said that over 1/3 of those involved in this situation were already known to the British version of CPS for various reasons. Meaning the place was poor and a lot of the same went on that goes on wherever poor people live. Some of it is due to poverty and others are due to being people of low conscientiousness and making really stupid choices and stupid lifestyles. The press likes to refer to these girls as "vulnerable" or "confused", low income girls, often with no father, mothers with drug abuse problems. But in the end, they were entitled white girls with an ass to peddle and they peddled it to swarthy brown men who are normally excluded from relationships with these sorts of precious little dears.

    The reason the police did not immediately sound the alarm about these Asian men "raping" these white girls , and this "grooming" them for prostitution, then in this "trafficking" them to other towns where they were "raped" by multiple men, and then the police showing "contempt" for the victims was that "victims" were prostitutes that were selling their precious little white asses for all the cash and prizes they could get by doing so. Basically when a lot of these situations came to light was for arrests for prostitution. These acts were entirely consensual and the word "rape" is used because of the letter of the law, any sex with a minor is considered "rape". They were not only consensual but they were paid, they negotiated a price. And anyone that knows hookers knows what swell people they are.

    And then when the report was read, then the feminist press changes the narrative from mercenary little shits who knew exactly what they doing, were completely aware they were breaking the law, who acted with agency, because there was cash to be gained, to poor little babies, victims, abused at the hands of these heinous brown men. In investigations the police found the acts to be entirely consensual and in willful violation of the law. This idea of "trafficking" is some guys told the girls if they came to this other city, then there would be some customers for them. So they were carried over there where they did multiple men, pocketed the cash, probably quite a lot of it actually, and went home with a fat wallet and a smile on their face for letting some brown men touch their precious little white body parts.

    In the end, no matter diverse diversity gets, our feminist overseers will insure that the top of the heap in the diversity pile will always be precious little white women and girls. I am sure that the plight of Pakis in England is a very lonely ordeal. White women show all kinds of love to blacks, Africans, Caribbeans, but I am sure that Paki men are way way down the sexual food chain, subject to massive dismissal and rejection from pristine little English roses, even the white trash ones from the Council House neighborhoods in a poor shithole like Rotherham. And the police and city government was probably correct in assuming that if they took cases like these and made a big too-doo about them, them it would all blow up where the Pakistani community would receive undo anger became some Paki men were paying little white trash whores for sex.

    This idea of "grooming" them was what? They asked the little tramps if they wanted to have sex with some men for cash? And these notices of "threats" were probably all part and parcel of underground prostitution. Some girls were having tricks arranged by one guy and and another one came along and offered a better deal. So then the first guy used strong arm tactics to say "No you don't. You gotta deal with me and you gotta stick to it". And the whole 11 and 12 year old ages listed were not the norm. The report listed ages of 11 to 20 something. The majority were not these extremely young girls. And I don't care if it is 11 or not, those girls knew they were breaking the law, they knew that prostitution is a crime in England. And the only reason they are portrayed as victims is exactly because they are girls. Boys would be sent of to reform school for participation in willful and organized conspiracies to break the law.

    And the investigations by the police uncovered exactly that these girls were acting with agency as prostitutes. The report lists several different "Operation Whatevers", where this big push went on to find and arrest these heinous perpetrators of all of this "exploitation" of the little princesses. And in the end no or very few arrests were made.

    Sailor, really in my opinion, this is something for you to stay out of. It has the smell of Ferguson where there was this big push for the Great White Defendant, only to find that the whole thing was a big piece of crap. And this is the same way. The fems are looking to roast the Paki men at the stake and then all of the local men in the Rotherham police and Government, where in the end, the real perpetrators of this situation are the white girls who knew exactly what they were doing in peddling their Erotic Capital for cash and prizes.

    In the end, to me, the problem here is that the morals of girls and women have sunk so low that "you go gurl"-ism leads them all to believe that it is perfectly fine for any girl or woman to cash in on her sexuality and that all men should pay for the wonderful privilege of even being in the vicinity of her highness. And you know the rest, resources will get mobilized, fem jobs will be funded, and this big CSE (Child Sexual Exploitation) hullaballoo will create make work for the faithful. The failure of the local government is that it failed to recognize that all little white girls are special princesses and treat them as such. Instead these "neglectful criminals" trusted their lying eyes, as well as their experience as trained police officers, and saw the little dears as a bunch of criminal whores who willfully broke the law in trading their "charms" for cash and prizes.

    Just one example of many:

    https://twitter.com/BadboyBNP/statuses/504686718071894016

    #Rotherham #Police forced one father to deliver his 13year old daughter to a gang of muslim rapists with the threat of arrest for racism.

  138. @Anonymous
    "I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    The Rotherham teenagers, not really girls, were raped only in the sense that they had not reached the age of consent. If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else. They went with the highest bidder. That’s a sad state of affairs but, it is what it is."

    The reality TV program Benefits Street describes the situation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits_Street

    Meditate on this comment for a moment. This is, I imagine, a white guy (though quite possibly not) who takes the time and energy to mitigate damages for non-white sex crimes against white girls.

    Can you imagine a non-white adult man doing the same in the reverse situation?

    “Can you imagine a non-white adult man doing the same in the reverse situation?”

    Sex tours of third world nations, Thailand?, are more than just rumors.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter

    Pakistanis did not import sex into the UK, it was there when they got there. Sure it was scummy of the individuals involved. But the UK has had scummy individuals in the past doing the same stuff, although admittedly usually British individuals before the great immigration.

    A better immigration angle is that jobs that would have been done by English teenagers are being done by middle aged foreign males. If the teenage girls had work they would have bought iPhones with their own money.

    One ‘revelation’ of the Ferguson riots is that even though there are plenty of unemployed Blacks the store was employing what appears to be an elderly foreigner. The foreigner is mostly likely paid room and board, his retirement to be paid by Social Security.

  139. Dahlia says:
    @Mark Minter
    First this is all still Feminist wah wah. Here is the link to the report by Prof Alexis Jay from the Rotherham city government site. It is 150 pages.

    file:///home/chronos/user/Downloads/Independent_inquiry_CSE_in_Rotherham.pdf

    It covers activity by the city for since 1997. And during that time the city developed programs to deal with this situation. It is not as if this all went on with the police and the city turning a blind eye to what was happening.

    Rotherham is a city in South Essex of around 250,000 people. It is an old steel mill town that had all of its "rust belt" industry dry up and is poorer than average. 23% of the population live in Council Houses and the report says the welfare government benefits per capita are higher than the British average.

    In general what the press and the report describe as "the children" were basically a bunch of street prostitutes. The report said that over 1/3 of those involved in this situation were already known to the British version of CPS for various reasons. Meaning the place was poor and a lot of the same went on that goes on wherever poor people live. Some of it is due to poverty and others are due to being people of low conscientiousness and making really stupid choices and stupid lifestyles. The press likes to refer to these girls as "vulnerable" or "confused", low income girls, often with no father, mothers with drug abuse problems. But in the end, they were entitled white girls with an ass to peddle and they peddled it to swarthy brown men who are normally excluded from relationships with these sorts of precious little dears.

    The reason the police did not immediately sound the alarm about these Asian men "raping" these white girls , and this "grooming" them for prostitution, then in this "trafficking" them to other towns where they were "raped" by multiple men, and then the police showing "contempt" for the victims was that "victims" were prostitutes that were selling their precious little white asses for all the cash and prizes they could get by doing so. Basically when a lot of these situations came to light was for arrests for prostitution. These acts were entirely consensual and the word "rape" is used because of the letter of the law, any sex with a minor is considered "rape". They were not only consensual but they were paid, they negotiated a price. And anyone that knows hookers knows what swell people they are.

    And then when the report was read, then the feminist press changes the narrative from mercenary little shits who knew exactly what they doing, were completely aware they were breaking the law, who acted with agency, because there was cash to be gained, to poor little babies, victims, abused at the hands of these heinous brown men. In investigations the police found the acts to be entirely consensual and in willful violation of the law. This idea of "trafficking" is some guys told the girls if they came to this other city, then there would be some customers for them. So they were carried over there where they did multiple men, pocketed the cash, probably quite a lot of it actually, and went home with a fat wallet and a smile on their face for letting some brown men touch their precious little white body parts.

    In the end, no matter diverse diversity gets, our feminist overseers will insure that the top of the heap in the diversity pile will always be precious little white women and girls. I am sure that the plight of Pakis in England is a very lonely ordeal. White women show all kinds of love to blacks, Africans, Caribbeans, but I am sure that Paki men are way way down the sexual food chain, subject to massive dismissal and rejection from pristine little English roses, even the white trash ones from the Council House neighborhoods in a poor shithole like Rotherham. And the police and city government was probably correct in assuming that if they took cases like these and made a big too-doo about them, them it would all blow up where the Pakistani community would receive undo anger became some Paki men were paying little white trash whores for sex.

    This idea of "grooming" them was what? They asked the little tramps if they wanted to have sex with some men for cash? And these notices of "threats" were probably all part and parcel of underground prostitution. Some girls were having tricks arranged by one guy and and another one came along and offered a better deal. So then the first guy used strong arm tactics to say "No you don't. You gotta deal with me and you gotta stick to it". And the whole 11 and 12 year old ages listed were not the norm. The report listed ages of 11 to 20 something. The majority were not these extremely young girls. And I don't care if it is 11 or not, those girls knew they were breaking the law, they knew that prostitution is a crime in England. And the only reason they are portrayed as victims is exactly because they are girls. Boys would be sent of to reform school for participation in willful and organized conspiracies to break the law.

    And the investigations by the police uncovered exactly that these girls were acting with agency as prostitutes. The report lists several different "Operation Whatevers", where this big push went on to find and arrest these heinous perpetrators of all of this "exploitation" of the little princesses. And in the end no or very few arrests were made.

    Sailor, really in my opinion, this is something for you to stay out of. It has the smell of Ferguson where there was this big push for the Great White Defendant, only to find that the whole thing was a big piece of crap. And this is the same way. The fems are looking to roast the Paki men at the stake and then all of the local men in the Rotherham police and Government, where in the end, the real perpetrators of this situation are the white girls who knew exactly what they were doing in peddling their Erotic Capital for cash and prizes.

    In the end, to me, the problem here is that the morals of girls and women have sunk so low that "you go gurl"-ism leads them all to believe that it is perfectly fine for any girl or woman to cash in on her sexuality and that all men should pay for the wonderful privilege of even being in the vicinity of her highness. And you know the rest, resources will get mobilized, fem jobs will be funded, and this big CSE (Child Sexual Exploitation) hullaballoo will create make work for the faithful. The failure of the local government is that it failed to recognize that all little white girls are special princesses and treat them as such. Instead these "neglectful criminals" trusted their lying eyes, as well as their experience as trained police officers, and saw the little dears as a bunch of criminal whores who willfully broke the law in trading their "charms" for cash and prizes.

    But in the end, they were entitled white girls with an ass to peddle and they peddled it to swarthy brown men who are normally excluded from relationships with these sorts of precious little dears.

    You’re evil and a pervert. If only there were more Grady Judds in the West.

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/polk-sheriff-grady-judd-makes-his-name-on-moral-outrage/1149570

    (For those, who don’t know him, he’s not a one-trick pony, and is tough and no-nonsense on
    all crime.)

  140. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Either way, your hankering for a white United States makes little sense.

    Are you saying that the historic, 90% white America, was not considered a “white nation”? And that the world did not consider it a “white nation”? Then what is everybody complaining about when they talk about all those evil old Dead White Males? Seems you want to have it both ways.

    “Haitians, your hankering for a black Haiti makes little sense.”

    “Mexicans, your hankering for a Mexican Mexico makes little sense.”

    “Chinese, your hankering for a Chinese China makes little sense.”

    “Japanese, your hankering for a Japanese Japan makes little sense.”

    Are you telling these folks this? Or just us white Americans?

    • Replies: @Numinous
    Are Haitians really hankering for a black Haiti? I seriously doubt they'd kick up a fuss if some retired white Americans decided to settle there for the climate and did some useful development work.

    But seriously, yeah, I'd probably ask that question of the people of those countries too if they focused on racial characteristics. Now if Americans demanded an English-speaking US or Japanese demanded a Japanese-speaking Japan, I'd have no problem with it, and wouldn't be puzzled about it. Cultural comfort I totally get. And I'm a sort-of-utopian that believes good cultural attributes spread and triumph over bad cultural attributes through contact and spread of knowledge. Sealing borders tight and preventing contact between peoples retards that process. Also, unlike just about everyone who comments on this blog, I am not convinced that race determines cognitive or behavioral attributes competely; nurture and environment can, and occasionally do, trump nature.
  141. @gu
    Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    This person is one of these "rules lawyers" who think he's all smrt and cute by quoting things out of the Quran when those things are copletely irrelevant for the modern day. In other words: those rapists raped for the same reasons blacks rape. They don't do it because they really think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They do it because they are psychopaths that don't care about anyone but close kin and have a higher sex drive.

    Pray tell, if Islam is the main reason why these guys engage in "slavery", why did the unislamic southerners and Brits engage in it as well?

    If ‘NOBODY’ engaged in it we wouldn’t be having this conversation would we? We wouldn’t be constantly hearing about ‘maids’ in Muslim countries being held in chains in the basement and beaten/raped. We wouldn’t see them exporting their favorite pastime to the West.

    Look western countries used to keep slaves but most voluntarily gave them up. Only one fought a war over it over one hundred and fifty years ago. The West is civilized that’s why goat roping, baby raping, child abusing Muslims love it here, flush toilets and governments too cowed to mention it lest they be seen as ‘anti-Muslim’. They already act like Dhimmi. Just enjoy it and be happy quit complaining when we notice that your rhetoric and religious instruction matches your actions. It makes you look like sore winners. You’ve already got Londonstan just enjoy it.

    Islam is the main reason you still engage in slavery. Your religious book and writing encourage it and modern not ancient but modern Muslim teachers are quoted as saying that taking women by conquest is lawful and fully in line with the Koran.

    If you want something different become Christian or don’t because it looks to me like you’ll be able to rape all the little boys and girls you want in the future Londonstan.

  142. @gu
    "But there are indeed Muslims who think that having sex with a 9-year-old (or with a slave) is fine, and use the Koran and the life of Muhammad to justify doing so."

    This has most likely nothing to do with Rotherham, since the rapists readily ignored Islamic drug restrictions. They probably raped these girls because they could, not because it was sanctioned.

    The existence of such Muslims, does not justify the claim that Islam is to blame for this case.

    Black Christian rapists do that all the time. Islam isn't needed for this sort of act.

    “The existence of such Muslims, does not justify the claim that Islam is to blame for this case.”

    Again, you’re setting up straw men. The fact that these men don’t follow Islamic teaching to the letter is hardly proof that they are uninfluenced by Islamic views on sex slavery and sex with little girls. A fair number of caliphs over the centuries drank and took hash. You think that means that the harems they maintained, or their views on waging jihad in the West, were uninfluenced by what the Koran says?

    Likewise, no one is saying that Islam is the primary factor. Sure, these pimps were scum, first and foremost. But if you see no connection whatsoever between how this particular case played out and the fact that you ‘prophet’ just happened to rape a 9-year old (so that, to this day, it is exceedingly difficult to enact statutory rape laws protecting little girls in places like Pakistan that insist on living by the Koran), you’re kidding yourself. If you don’t think the Koran’s endorsement of sex slavery regarding kaffir women has no connection to this case whatsoever, then you’re part of the problem.

    So much for moderate Muslims like you.

  143. @RWF
    My daughter got sent home from school in Rotherham for saying something racist.

    "No."

    That right there is the thread winner.

  144. @Twinkie

    That would be prostitution engaged in by adult women with some choices, not by 15 year olds more or less owned by pimps. That argument may be right or wrong, but at least be clear what is and isn’t being argued for.
     
    There are feminists who argue that what we in the West consider under-aged girls engaging in prostitution overseas is "empowering." Some of them were and are opponents of "moralistic" American efforts to curb sex trafficking (frequently of minors) overseas.

    Besides, exploitation is exploitation. There are certainly different levels of depravity and exploitation but if you think that adult sex workers are free-willing agents of moral choice, you don't know much about the illicit sex industry or the women who work in it. There is extremely high levels of drug abuse as well as physical and mental abuse/pressure by the men who control them.

    In any case, the point I made earlier was that the so-called feminists aren't really about protecting and empowering women per se, but more about destroying Christian "patriarchy."

    ” There are certainly different levels of depravity and exploitation but if you think that adult sex workers are free-willing agents of moral choice, you don’t know much about the illicit sex industry or the women who work in it. There is extremely high levels of drug abuse as well as physical and mental abuse/pressure by the men who control them.”

    May God save us of small white knights with big egos.

  145. @Marty T
    12 year old girls beaten and raped by smelly, violent invaders. Thousands of them. The fact that every Pakistani in Britain is not afraid of a severe beating and torture by actual brits says the British men themselves need a kick in the ass.

    “The fact that every Pakistani in Britain is not afraid of a severe beating and torture by actual brits says the British men themselves need a kick in the ass.”

    Why on earth would completely innocent Pakis be deserving of torture?

    Are you mentally ill?

    • Replies: @HA
    Why on earth would completely innocent Pakis be deserving of torture?

    We agree on that point. In fact, a Pakistani getting beaten up or a mosque being defaced by some white racist is exactly what the apologists and their lefty enablers are hoping for right about now. So much so, that the rest of us will wonder, should such an incident be reported, who is really behind it?

  146. @Whiskey
    I keep waiting for the evidence of "Moderate Muslims." Now where are they? Where were they when the 1993 WTC Bombers nearly brought the towers down, and they were known throughout the community as hard core jihadi terrorists. Where were the moderate Muslims? Where were the moderate Muslims when a group of the 9/11 hijackers trained in San Diego and spouted off about Jihad? Where were they? Where were the moderate Muslims in Afghanistan when the Taliban was informed in advance of the plot? Where were the moderate Muslims in both Iraq and Iran when the hijackers transited both nations without a single passport stamp to facilitate the plot? Where were the moderate Muslims in the beheading of Theo Van Gogh? Where were they? Where were the moderate Muslims when ISIS was beheading Christians and Yazidis in Iraq. After all, Iraq is FULL OF MUSLIMS, and weapons, everyone has them.

    Its not like Nazi Germany. There Germans may not have liked Hitler but being disarmed totally could do nothing. Even so more than a few revolted and were tortured and beheaded for their actions -- the White Rose group, a bunch of students really, besides the Prussian plotters. Heck Iraq is filled with weapons and not a single group of Muslims came to the rescue of the Christians or the Yazidis. It was American air power that saved them.

    Then we have Rotherham. The entire community knew. The prosecutor knew, and being both Muslim AND Paki he did nothing. The cops knew, and being Muslim and Paki did nothing. The fathers of the men involved did nothing to stop it, for all I know they likely joined in.

    Over and over and over again, "Moderate Muslims" are promised but NEVER EVER APPEAR.

    So being an Empiricist I put Moderate Muslims on a par with Unicorns, Manticores, Hippogriffs, and other mythical and entirely fictional beasts. They don't exist. They lack even the courage of a Sophie Scholl, a girl of only nineteen. [Tortured and beheaded by the Nazis for passing out literature decrying the Holocaust and the War -- and yes she knew what the result would be.]

    Muslims range from active to passive Jihad supporters. That's it. That's why they belong in Muslim countries only where they can engage in the usual Muslim past-times of beheadings (Muslim love to do that), killing gays, JIHAD! and other Muslim activities.

    “Muslims range from active to passive Jihad supporters. ”

    Whiskey, you’re a Jew. Nobody believs what you say about Muslims.

    • Replies: @Curious Reader
    Whiskey, you’re a Jew. Nobody believs what you say about Muslims.

    gu, you're a Muslim. Nobody (sane) believes what you say about Muslims.

    But keep trying, your personal anecdotes are riveting stuff.

  147. @George
    "luring pubescent white Christian girls into sexual slavery"

    I doubt their Christian credentials. I would describe them as post Christian.

    The Rotherham teenagers, not really girls, were raped only in the sense that they had not reached the age of consent. If they did not have sex with the Pakistanis, it would have been with someone else. They went with the highest bidder. That's a sad state of affairs but, it is what it is.

    The reality TV program Benefits Street describes the situation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefits_Street

    You know, being covered and gasoline and threatened with a match or beaten, pistol whipped, and threatened with being shot and their families killed or even going to the police and then being returned to the rapists seems like there was a level of force used.

    And no an eleven or twelve year old cannot give consent. So you let your children become sex workers before they’re in high school? You wouldn’t mind if they decide to have sex with your seventy five year old neighbor?

    Find a rock, crawl under it. Everyone wins.

  148. Here’s an idea. Take all of the images of celebrities posturing in support of the kidnapped Nigerian girls and photoshop them so that they appear to be in support of the raped Rotherham girls. Spread them all over the place on social media sites. This would illustrate how silent these people are when white girls are raped by non-white men. It is also unlikely they would say anything about it because that would only raise awareness for the Rotherham girls and expose their own hypocrisy.

  149. If there are any British men reading this. Go hang your head in shame and get a dress. You have lost all claim to manhood. This was not a ‘one off’, this was not an ‘aberration’. This was systemic, long-term, government and socially sanctioned.

    You conquered the world and are afraid of a bunch of guys who have never mastered indoor plumbing? Go castrate yourselves now and save the Muslims the trouble. You’re already acting as their harem guards might as well make a proper job of it.

  150. Yes Mark Minter, 14 year old girls pushed with drugs, alcohol, and sexually used by various grown men are just vapid White girls completely in control of their own agency. This whole case is just one example of the depravity of White girls, and has no real reflection on the average character of brown muslim men. These grown Pakistani men in gangs are just “Brown Knight” suckers for wily 14 year old prostitutes with substance abuse problems.

    If that’s your conclusions you read far too much of the man-0-sphere. Call your detractors White Knights all you want, but sometimes an evil situation has a simple interpretation: the invader shows his superiority through the sexual debasement of the target population’s female young.

    These young girls are merely being forced to adapt (and I doubt with much enthusiasm) to the environment of this hideous multicultural “western” world, and passing judgement on them is fit for men who hide their cowardice of the real threat by rationalizing the debasement of those he should defend.

    The only question of this whole unholy charade is why White English men won’t stand up to this when instinct and history deem it proper. Likely one explanation is that defeated rationalizations similar to Mark Minter’s are permeating like parasites amongst the White English people.

  151. gu,

    You are convincing everyone here except for idiots and leftists (but I repeat myself) that not only do you condone this violence. The only thing you want is for the kaffir to quit talking about it so you can enjoy your dominance of British society and get back to what’s important, raping little boys (or girls, you don’t have to be picky in Islam apparently). The only thing your pointing and screeching is doing is bringing attention to your religion’s approval of these crimes.

    Face it your religion, currently, not anciently, advocates sexual slavery and child abuse. There are may statements less than twenty years old from eminent religious people and scholars approving of this type of behavior. Condemn the scholars and religious leaders, condemn the rapists, condemn the cowardly British politicians that hold your people to the standards of cavemen or apes creatures unable to control their sexual and violent natures so they must be catered to lest they be offended because they can’t stop themselves from raping and brutalizing little girls.

    Or keep pointing and screeching when someone notices that your people are not only held to a lower standard but apparently can’t even be bothered to adhere to that.

  152. @Mark Minter
    First this is all still Feminist wah wah. Here is the link to the report by Prof Alexis Jay from the Rotherham city government site. It is 150 pages.

    file:///home/chronos/user/Downloads/Independent_inquiry_CSE_in_Rotherham.pdf

    It covers activity by the city for since 1997. And during that time the city developed programs to deal with this situation. It is not as if this all went on with the police and the city turning a blind eye to what was happening.

    Rotherham is a city in South Essex of around 250,000 people. It is an old steel mill town that had all of its "rust belt" industry dry up and is poorer than average. 23% of the population live in Council Houses and the report says the welfare government benefits per capita are higher than the British average.

    In general what the press and the report describe as "the children" were basically a bunch of street prostitutes. The report said that over 1/3 of those involved in this situation were already known to the British version of CPS for various reasons. Meaning the place was poor and a lot of the same went on that goes on wherever poor people live. Some of it is due to poverty and others are due to being people of low conscientiousness and making really stupid choices and stupid lifestyles. The press likes to refer to these girls as "vulnerable" or "confused", low income girls, often with no father, mothers with drug abuse problems. But in the end, they were entitled white girls with an ass to peddle and they peddled it to swarthy brown men who are normally excluded from relationships with these sorts of precious little dears.

    The reason the police did not immediately sound the alarm about these Asian men "raping" these white girls , and this "grooming" them for prostitution, then in this "trafficking" them to other towns where they were "raped" by multiple men, and then the police showing "contempt" for the victims was that "victims" were prostitutes that were selling their precious little white asses for all the cash and prizes they could get by doing so. Basically when a lot of these situations came to light was for arrests for prostitution. These acts were entirely consensual and the word "rape" is used because of the letter of the law, any sex with a minor is considered "rape". They were not only consensual but they were paid, they negotiated a price. And anyone that knows hookers knows what swell people they are.

    And then when the report was read, then the feminist press changes the narrative from mercenary little shits who knew exactly what they doing, were completely aware they were breaking the law, who acted with agency, because there was cash to be gained, to poor little babies, victims, abused at the hands of these heinous brown men. In investigations the police found the acts to be entirely consensual and in willful violation of the law. This idea of "trafficking" is some guys told the girls if they came to this other city, then there would be some customers for them. So they were carried over there where they did multiple men, pocketed the cash, probably quite a lot of it actually, and went home with a fat wallet and a smile on their face for letting some brown men touch their precious little white body parts.

    In the end, no matter diverse diversity gets, our feminist overseers will insure that the top of the heap in the diversity pile will always be precious little white women and girls. I am sure that the plight of Pakis in England is a very lonely ordeal. White women show all kinds of love to blacks, Africans, Caribbeans, but I am sure that Paki men are way way down the sexual food chain, subject to massive dismissal and rejection from pristine little English roses, even the white trash ones from the Council House neighborhoods in a poor shithole like Rotherham. And the police and city government was probably correct in assuming that if they took cases like these and made a big too-doo about them, them it would all blow up where the Pakistani community would receive undo anger became some Paki men were paying little white trash whores for sex.

    This idea of "grooming" them was what? They asked the little tramps if they wanted to have sex with some men for cash? And these notices of "threats" were probably all part and parcel of underground prostitution. Some girls were having tricks arranged by one guy and and another one came along and offered a better deal. So then the first guy used strong arm tactics to say "No you don't. You gotta deal with me and you gotta stick to it". And the whole 11 and 12 year old ages listed were not the norm. The report listed ages of 11 to 20 something. The majority were not these extremely young girls. And I don't care if it is 11 or not, those girls knew they were breaking the law, they knew that prostitution is a crime in England. And the only reason they are portrayed as victims is exactly because they are girls. Boys would be sent of to reform school for participation in willful and organized conspiracies to break the law.

    And the investigations by the police uncovered exactly that these girls were acting with agency as prostitutes. The report lists several different "Operation Whatevers", where this big push went on to find and arrest these heinous perpetrators of all of this "exploitation" of the little princesses. And in the end no or very few arrests were made.

    Sailor, really in my opinion, this is something for you to stay out of. It has the smell of Ferguson where there was this big push for the Great White Defendant, only to find that the whole thing was a big piece of crap. And this is the same way. The fems are looking to roast the Paki men at the stake and then all of the local men in the Rotherham police and Government, where in the end, the real perpetrators of this situation are the white girls who knew exactly what they were doing in peddling their Erotic Capital for cash and prizes.

    In the end, to me, the problem here is that the morals of girls and women have sunk so low that "you go gurl"-ism leads them all to believe that it is perfectly fine for any girl or woman to cash in on her sexuality and that all men should pay for the wonderful privilege of even being in the vicinity of her highness. And you know the rest, resources will get mobilized, fem jobs will be funded, and this big CSE (Child Sexual Exploitation) hullaballoo will create make work for the faithful. The failure of the local government is that it failed to recognize that all little white girls are special princesses and treat them as such. Instead these "neglectful criminals" trusted their lying eyes, as well as their experience as trained police officers, and saw the little dears as a bunch of criminal whores who willfully broke the law in trading their "charms" for cash and prizes.

    You really are a nasty piece of work. Yes, Sailer should refrain from commenting on something so vile and systemic that it has taken decades to stop.

    We get it you are one of the ‘red pill’ crew and think that anything that tangentially might help women (well children in this case but in your hatred and ignorance they’ll do) is part of the great feminist plot to keep you sexless and take your money.

    If this happened to one girl it would be a crime. But you need to show solidarity with your ‘bros’ and say this is just a frame up to blame Paki men because well they’re men. Good on you pick a delusion and stick with it.

  153. @Curious Reader
    Turks and Bosnians mostly just start fights like a bunch of pugilistic knuckleheads

    Most Bosnians and most westernized, urban Turks are bad Muslims. They maintain some of their traditions, but most don't truly believe in the word of Allah. We can thank Ataturk and Tito for taking burka-loving savages and dragging them into modernity. Good for the Turks and the Bosnians. But bad for devout Muslims, since it shows that the further one gets from Islam, the better off he is for it. Other Muslims invoking Bosnians and Turks in this kind of argument are just underscoring their own stupidity, hatefulness and lack of success.

    Basically, gu, you and your kind don't belong in the West. You are bad news wherever you show up, same as you have been ever since that psycho Mohammad had an idea. And whoever in the West doubts that, should do themselves a favour and read the Koran. It's all in there.

    You’re an idiot.

    We’re not talking about Ataturk here, we’re talking about natural violent tendencies ala blacks.

    White muslims act way better than Pakis. I wonder why…

  154. @Curious Reader
    I'm sure Pakistani rapists enjoy raping Pakistani girls. But raping non-Muslim girls gives them that sort of enjoyment, plus the additional thrill of raping kaffirs. For a pious Muslim, things don't get much better than that. Britain is Jannah on earth for Muslims.

    Westerners, even non-PC ones, often can't quite grasp how important religion is to so many Muslims. It is the literal word of god, it's all-consuming, it's everything. There are quite a few Muslims who don't hate "infidels". But they're not good, pious Muslims. They claim to be Muslims, but some might not even have read the Koran. Some might even become apostates if it wasn't such a dangerous decision for so many of them. But good Muslims, those who truly believe in their religion, hate infidels. It's what the most important entity in their lives teaches them to do. You can't be a good Muslim without hating infidels, non-hateful piety is an oxymoron in Islam.

    You’re a fool as well.

    Just because you chose to glean that from the book, doesn’t mean they also glean it. (though some do)

    Bottom line: most muslims are “bad muslims”. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

    This entire thing rests on the assumption that Islamic theology is the reason that these rapes are happening. Anyone who knows the Paki (Indian) tendency to rape, will know that this is garbage of the smelliest kind. Those guys were vodka drinking potheads. They weren’t good Muslims either.

    In other words, you’re a fould creature that wilfully bends reality in a way that would make the NYT proud.

    • Replies: @Curious Reader
    You’re an idiot.

    Ah, Muslims. Such amazing debaters. Touched a nerve, did I?

    Bottom line: most muslims are “bad muslims”.

    No Muslim is a perfect Muslim (that's reserved for good old Mo), but the majority of the world's Muslims are quite devout indeed. It's a gradient, as with any religion, but most Muslims are certainly devout enough to be quite vile. No other Muslim group is collectively as bad at being Muslims as the Bosnians and the Turks. Which is why all the other Muslim groups are such abject failures. If your civilization's crowning success are Turkey and Bosnia(!), it's time to face the fact that your civilization sucks.

    And how can we not speak of Ataturk when discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of Islam? If not for him, Turkey would be just another smelly Middle Eastern dump. Your ethnicity argument is neither here nor there. Of course Turks are more functional than Nigerians, but tell me, why are Pakis so much worse than Hindus or Sikhs could ever be? Why are Muslim Albanians troublemakers, while Christian Albanians integrate well into host societies? Why are Muslims always worse than their counterparts of another religion, and never the other way around?

    There's rape everywhere, but Islam enshrines it as the word of God and the vaunted deeds of the perfect man. There's no question that the Koran is singularly vile and hateful as far as religious scriptures go. And there's no need to go back and forth over whether Muslims actually follow its exhortations to go forth and subjugate and rape. We know they do. The fact can't be escaped, not even with the entire PC machinery trying to cover the Muslims' tracks. Europeans live in countries where the infestation is getting worse by the day, and where it's just more and more Islamic violence and whining all the time, day in, day out. But, nah, despite all this, Islam is a-ok, because a certain number of Muslims are nice people and not very religious? What ridiculous quasi-logic to bust out on a blog like this. You'de be much more at home in the NYT comment section. What you're asking us is not to believe our lying eyes.

  155. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    TWS, once women stop bossing me around and try to tell me, as a man, what to do – that’s so called third wave feminism to you- then I as a man signally refuse to a damn thing. Feminism, immigrationism, labour party, ‘progressivism’ PC, the absolutr certainty of a white minority Britain due to the policies of the political class and Economist magazine over the past decades, that’s the overwhelming monster responsible for it all, all many small turds that make up a great big pile of shit. Sorry but I’ve just completely lost interest anf lost heart, I really couldn’t give a shit anymore – the combined shithead forces and there overwhelming ower have just burnt out what little heart and soul had left. I smirk to.myself and say let the muzzies and feministas fight it out amongst themselves. The have no use for white men. I have no use for them. And anyway this result is exactly what the uk political class has sweated blood for for years. Did you know that any UK dissenters to this dogma are summarily slung into jail by the powers that be? No I thought not.

  156. @WhatEvvs
    Anyone who never heard of Brownmiller hasn't earned the right to speak about 2nd wave feminism. Yes, many Jews but the biggest name was Kate Millett and don't forget Ti-Grace Atkinson, and Germaine Greer.

    Brownmiller said that rape was the way that ALL men kept ALL women subjugated. This is like saying that hitting is the way that ALL mothers keep ALL children subjugated. It's really stupid. If all Brownie had said was that rape is power, then she would have been right. But she went well beyond that. Like a lot of feminists, I think she was borderline. (Millett and Firestone were plumb psycho.)

    More psycho than Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin?

  157. @gu
    "But there are indeed Muslims who think that having sex with a 9-year-old (or with a slave) is fine, and use the Koran and the life of Muhammad to justify doing so."

    This has most likely nothing to do with Rotherham, since the rapists readily ignored Islamic drug restrictions. They probably raped these girls because they could, not because it was sanctioned.

    The existence of such Muslims, does not justify the claim that Islam is to blame for this case.

    Black Christian rapists do that all the time. Islam isn't needed for this sort of act.

    The link to Islam is simply that this specific phenomenon of “grooming gangs” are found in Muslim, and only Muslim, immigrant communities. In Britain, for example, they’re not found, to any significant extent, among Hindus, Sikhs, or whites, although these groups have been victims of grooming gangs. But Muslim grooming gangs are also found in the Netherlands, but there it’s Moroccan and Turkish immigrants, not Pakistanis.

    I believe you when say the perpetrators of these crimes are not good Muslims, but something in Muslim culture is obvious at the root of this. I read a claim once that, in the United States, conservative, church-going, Evangelical men show the lowest rates of spousal abuse of any demographic group, but conservative, non-church-going, Evangelical men show the highest rate. Maybe something similar is going on with Muslims in Britain. Low-IQ, poorly brought-up Muslim kids pick their values from a smorgasbord of Islamic patriarchy and Western pornography and licentiousness.

    So there’s that. But there’s also the history of Muslim sexual slavery and contempt for non-Muslims. The Rotherham gangs may not be Islamic scholar, but they may still get this.

  158. @22pp22
    You act as if I have no experience of living with Muslims. I have and I don't like it. London and Paris are full of Muslims. There are/were dozens of these gangs. They were almost exclusively South Asian. Their victims were indigenous. That's a pattern.

    We are under siege from Islamic invaders bringing their benighted culture with them. I have watched town after town change demographically and be turned into a Third World sh1th0le.

    We hear time and time again that Islam is beautiful and that those who behave badly are few in number. That is codswallop to anyone who has any experience of living in Dewsbury, Luton or St Etienne.

    We were so much better off without you. I don't care how advanced you were in the tenth century. That was then. This is now.

    I don’t care how advanced you were in the tenth century. That was then. This is now.

    Islamic artists, philosophers, and scientists did in fact make some genuine contributions to world culture in the early centuries, but a lot of what they’re credited with was just gathering up fragments of the Roman, Greek, and Persian cultures that they’d smashed. And often it was their Christian and Zoroastrian subjects who did the heavy lifting, salvaging the wreckage of their traditions.

    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West. You know, if they hadn’t destroyed the ancient Graeco-Roman cultures of Antioch, Damascus, and Alexandria, we’d have got those works directly, not through poor-quality double translations.

    • Replies: @Curious Reader
    Islamic artists, philosophers, and scientists did in fact make some genuine contributions to world culture in the early centuries, but a lot of what they’re credited with was just gathering up fragments of the Roman, Greek, and Persian cultures that they’d smashed.

    Exactly. Not to deny the actual contributions made back then, but the myth of the Islamic Golden Age such as constantly repeated and taught in the West nowadays is bullshit. Though it pales in comparison to its companion myth, the evil Christian colonizers crusading against those pacifist Muslim hippies spreading love to the lucky peoples of the Middle East (and Europe).

    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West.

    I seem to recall reading that most of the translators were Syriac Christians. The people best known to the West nowadays for being relentlessly butchered over there.

  159. @gu
    "The fact that every Pakistani in Britain is not afraid of a severe beating and torture by actual brits says the British men themselves need a kick in the ass."

    Why on earth would completely innocent Pakis be deserving of torture?

    Are you mentally ill?

    Why on earth would completely innocent Pakis be deserving of torture?

    We agree on that point. In fact, a Pakistani getting beaten up or a mosque being defaced by some white racist is exactly what the apologists and their lefty enablers are hoping for right about now. So much so, that the rest of us will wonder, should such an incident be reported, who is really behind it?

  160. As far as I can tell, like with Judaism, there are “competing” scriptures at work here. Like with Judaism, in Islam there seems to be scripture that says the faithful should lie to the infidel/gentile if necessary to protect the faith and the faithful. So, sure, if you have a woman in your pimp right hand (i.e., she’s your sex slave), you should make an honest woman and marry her. And sure, you can have as many wives as you like (or no more than four, depends on who you ask). But more important than any of that is protecting the faith and the faithful by lying through your teeth to the infidel if needed.

    Jefferson, another way of looking at what you describe: maladapted (and liberal) white supremacy. The darkies are inferior and unable to live up to our norms. Of course, it’s become a 6 or half-dozen sort of thing by now.

    Is there anything more obnoxious than a sniveling tool bitching about how Islam is to blame for these things?

    I actually am a muslim. I know firsthand that he is full of crap. Yes, the prophet did marry a girl younger than 10. Literally almost no one thinks of child molesters as deserving of anything else but death among muslims. NOBODY thinks rape is ok.

    The problem is that Islam is largely fundamentalist. A Muslim can only honestly say that the prophet married a girl under 10, and that if it was good enough for the prophet, it’s good enough for Sharia. It practically is Sharia.

    Imagine if all Christians were fanatical fundies and Jesus had the same history. You’d have a real problem on your hands, as far as modern Western values are concerned.

    Islam on the ground is much more fundamentalist than Judaism or Christianity.

    Personally, I find this odd, because libertarianism seems to work best when people are both freedom-loving and religiously moral — a condition best obtained in Christian White, European, “gentile” societies.

    FIFY. The Christian part may or may not be essential, I admit.

    Yes, what the pimps are doing is not ethically comendable

    Way to take a stand against the sexual exploitation and molestation of minors there, Nick.

    How come you guys always make a stink about everything whites do to others, often based on mere speculation, but then turn around and downplay what others do to whites, even when it’s right in your face?

    Tell me the truth, Sailer: you just don’t want non-whites immigrating to white western nations, do you? Hence, endless excuses to create severe immigration laws to stop them. Your true motivations are so transparent.

    Then you turn the whole thing around and put it on whites.

    Put another way, why are you such a piece of shit, Nick?

    It’s a big mistake to automatically assume everyone thinks alike.

    Yet another obvious truth that libs have twisted and mis-shaped and bifurcated for their purposes. When non-Euro’s different thinking can be used to flatter them, yes, the assumption of universal thinking is bad. When their different thinking can make them look bad, yes, of course we all think alike.

    Carolla has bluntly admitted on The O’Reilly that he is a rich guy, he is not struggling.

    When you go from the bottom to the top, you don’t feel the need to prove your bona fides to anyone. When you’re Hillary Clinton, and have never had to struggle for the finer things, you feel like you have to prove you’ve “struggled.”

    “Clearly large sections of the Muslim community were AOK with what was going on in Rotherham and elsewhere. They knew and kept quiet”

    Proof by assertion.

    Proof by common sense.

    How on earth do you make yourself believe that this makes sense?

    Listen to yourself: you literally take a case of a bunch of lowlifes engaging in rape and SOMEHOW relate this to the religion they believe in.

    Yes, yes, we know. Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam.

    No not really. I just think it’s pathetic to bring up religion when most Muslims believe that raping children is sinful, despite your hostile, biased interpretation of Islam. Pakistani rape for the same reason why other, high frequency rapist people rape. Black people rape frequently as well. I don’t see you indicting Protestant Christianity.

    “Sinful,” according to whom? Show us the Islamic laws.

    I spoke to a Kurd around NYE 2012. He said that he would rape some random women if the world were to end. I was kind of shocked and couldn’t believe what he said.

    I wonder how many non-Muslims he says that to. LOL.

    You know what he DIDN’T say? “Man, who cares, Allah thinks rape is ok anyways.”

    Islam does say that. It endorses slavery and sexual slavery. The prophet practiced both.

  161. Woman ‘beheaded’ in London garden from the BBC.

    Look at the picture of some of the residents in that report.

    They do not mention the race of the perp. When that happens it is clear it was not a white man.

    • Replies: @JamestheFin
    A picture still is worth a thousand words, no?

    Firstly, I apologize to Mr. Sailer for my insult the first paragraph in my post which he graciously highlighted. I really do think he's brilliant on many issues. It's just that there was a real lack of conversation about the ideology driving these Pakistani Muslim sex grooming gangs and it was very frustrating to see this conversation occur without that component. So, I sincerely apologize for any insult directed at Mr. Sailer.

    FYI, Raymond Ibrahim, an Egyptian Christian has written a brief article on Islamic sanctioned sex slavery;

    "....“Spoils of war” is quite correct. Here is how the late Majid Khadduri(died 2007), “internationally recognized as one of the world’s leading authorities on Islamic law and jurisprudence,” explained the idea of “spoils” in his War and Peace in the Law of Islam:

    The term spoil (ghanima) is applied specifically to property acquired by force from non-Muslims. It includes, however, not only property (movable and immovable) but also persons, whether in the capacity of asra (prisoners of war) or sabi (women and children). … If the slave were a woman, the master was permitted to have sexual connection with her as a concubine.

    Nor is this limited to academic talk. Last year, Jordanian Sheikh Yasir al-‘Ajlawni said Muslims fighting to topple “infidel” president Bashar Assad in Syria are permitted to “capture and have sex with” all non-Sunni women, including Shia Muslims, Alawites, Christians, Druze, and Yazidis."
    Link: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/raymond-ibrahim/muslims-sexually-enslaving-children-a-global-phenomenon/

    Ibrahim also linked to a article from the Telegraph from last year where a British Imam fesses up to the fact that many mosques teach that sex slavery is entirely acceptable;

    " Dr Taj Hargey, imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, said race and religion were inextricably linked to the recent spate of grooming rings in which Muslim men have targeted under-age white girls.

    Earlier this week seven members of a child sex ring from Oxford were found guilty of forcing under age girls to commit acts of "extreme depravity".

    Their victims, aged between 11 and 15, were groomed and plied with alcohol and drugs before being sexually assaulted and forced into prostitution. They targeted "out of control" teenagers....

    .... The activities of the Oxford sex ring are “bound up with religion and race” because all the men - though of different nationalities - were Muslim and they “deliberately targeted vulnerable white girls, whom they appeared to regard as 'easy meat', to use one of their revealing, racist phrases”, Dr Hargey said.

    That attitude has been promoted by religious leaders, he believes. “On one level, most imams in the UK are simply using their puritanical sermons to promote the wearing of the hijab and even the burka among their female adherents. But the dire result can be the brutish misogyny we see in the Oxford sex ring.”

    People tiptoe around the issues and refuse to discuss the problems exposed by the scandals such as those “from Rochdale to Oxford, and Telford to Derby”, he wrote.

    In all cases the perpetrators were Muslim men and the victims were under age white girls."

    Read the rest, it's quite revealing; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10061217/Imams-promote-grooming-rings-Muslim-leader-claims.html
  162. So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West. You know, if they hadn’t destroyed the ancient Graeco-Roman cultures of Antioch, Damascus, and Alexandria, we’d have got those works directly, not through poor-quality double translations.

    As far as I am aware we got a lot of stuff directly from Constantinople in the century or so before its fall.

  163. @gu
    "The operative word here is “did”"

    Irrelevant. Point is, since a slaving people owned slaves even without the express sanction of God, it is proof positive that "They engaged in slavery, MUST BE ISLAM" is a silly argument.

    Moderate Muslims are everywhere. You just choose to ignore their existence. Thousands of flights land safely every day and you don't hear about that either.

    Fine. We can convert to your religion

    Then the warlike among us will become lords among you and we can execute/expel the criminals

  164. @gu
    You're a fool as well.

    Just because you chose to glean that from the book, doesn't mean they also glean it. (though some do)

    Bottom line: most muslims are "bad muslims". Therefore, your argument is invalid.

    This entire thing rests on the assumption that Islamic theology is the reason that these rapes are happening. Anyone who knows the Paki (Indian) tendency to rape, will know that this is garbage of the smelliest kind. Those guys were vodka drinking potheads. They weren't good Muslims either.

    In other words, you're a fould creature that wilfully bends reality in a way that would make the NYT proud.

    You’re an idiot.

    Ah, Muslims. Such amazing debaters. Touched a nerve, did I?

    Bottom line: most muslims are “bad muslims”.

    No Muslim is a perfect Muslim (that’s reserved for good old Mo), but the majority of the world’s Muslims are quite devout indeed. It’s a gradient, as with any religion, but most Muslims are certainly devout enough to be quite vile. No other Muslim group is collectively as bad at being Muslims as the Bosnians and the Turks. Which is why all the other Muslim groups are such abject failures. If your civilization’s crowning success are Turkey and Bosnia(!), it’s time to face the fact that your civilization sucks.

    And how can we not speak of Ataturk when discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of Islam? If not for him, Turkey would be just another smelly Middle Eastern dump. Your ethnicity argument is neither here nor there. Of course Turks are more functional than Nigerians, but tell me, why are Pakis so much worse than Hindus or Sikhs could ever be? Why are Muslim Albanians troublemakers, while Christian Albanians integrate well into host societies? Why are Muslims always worse than their counterparts of another religion, and never the other way around?

    There’s rape everywhere, but Islam enshrines it as the word of God and the vaunted deeds of the perfect man. There’s no question that the Koran is singularly vile and hateful as far as religious scriptures go. And there’s no need to go back and forth over whether Muslims actually follow its exhortations to go forth and subjugate and rape. We know they do. The fact can’t be escaped, not even with the entire PC machinery trying to cover the Muslims’ tracks. Europeans live in countries where the infestation is getting worse by the day, and where it’s just more and more Islamic violence and whining all the time, day in, day out. But, nah, despite all this, Islam is a-ok, because a certain number of Muslims are nice people and not very religious? What ridiculous quasi-logic to bust out on a blog like this. You’de be much more at home in the NYT comment section. What you’re asking us is not to believe our lying eyes.

  165. @anonymous
    Either way, your hankering for a white United States makes little sense.


    Are you saying that the historic, 90% white America, was not considered a "white nation"? And that the world did not consider it a "white nation"? Then what is everybody complaining about when they talk about all those evil old Dead White Males? Seems you want to have it both ways.

    "Haitians, your hankering for a black Haiti makes little sense."

    "Mexicans, your hankering for a Mexican Mexico makes little sense."

    "Chinese, your hankering for a Chinese China makes little sense."

    "Japanese, your hankering for a Japanese Japan makes little sense."


    Are you telling these folks this? Or just us white Americans?

    Are Haitians really hankering for a black Haiti? I seriously doubt they’d kick up a fuss if some retired white Americans decided to settle there for the climate and did some useful development work.

    But seriously, yeah, I’d probably ask that question of the people of those countries too if they focused on racial characteristics. Now if Americans demanded an English-speaking US or Japanese demanded a Japanese-speaking Japan, I’d have no problem with it, and wouldn’t be puzzled about it. Cultural comfort I totally get. And I’m a sort-of-utopian that believes good cultural attributes spread and triumph over bad cultural attributes through contact and spread of knowledge. Sealing borders tight and preventing contact between peoples retards that process. Also, unlike just about everyone who comments on this blog, I am not convinced that race determines cognitive or behavioral attributes competely; nurture and environment can, and occasionally do, trump nature.

  166. @David R. Merridale
    I don’t care how advanced you were in the tenth century. That was then. This is now.

    Islamic artists, philosophers, and scientists did in fact make some genuine contributions to world culture in the early centuries, but a lot of what they're credited with was just gathering up fragments of the Roman, Greek, and Persian cultures that they'd smashed. And often it was their Christian and Zoroastrian subjects who did the heavy lifting, salvaging the wreckage of their traditions.

    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West. You know, if they hadn't destroyed the ancient Graeco-Roman cultures of Antioch, Damascus, and Alexandria, we'd have got those works directly, not through poor-quality double translations.

    Islamic artists, philosophers, and scientists did in fact make some genuine contributions to world culture in the early centuries, but a lot of what they’re credited with was just gathering up fragments of the Roman, Greek, and Persian cultures that they’d smashed.

    Exactly. Not to deny the actual contributions made back then, but the myth of the Islamic Golden Age such as constantly repeated and taught in the West nowadays is bullshit. Though it pales in comparison to its companion myth, the evil Christian colonizers crusading against those pacifist Muslim hippies spreading love to the lucky peoples of the Middle East (and Europe).

    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West.

    I seem to recall reading that most of the translators were Syriac Christians. The people best known to the West nowadays for being relentlessly butchered over there.

  167. @gu
    "Muslims range from active to passive Jihad supporters. "

    Whiskey, you're a Jew. Nobody believs what you say about Muslims.

    Whiskey, you’re a Jew. Nobody believs what you say about Muslims.

    gu, you’re a Muslim. Nobody (sane) believes what you say about Muslims.

    But keep trying, your personal anecdotes are riveting stuff.

  168. @Ali Choudhury
    "I would be willing to bet that most, if not all of those Pakistani Muslims involved in these crimes had heard Maududi’s teachings (& many others) in one form or another. Even if they weren’t aware of Maududi in some way, there are plenty of other prominent and influential Muslim religious leader who proclaim something similar like the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdul-Aziz ibn Abdullah Al-ash Shayekh who believes that marrying and then having sex with 10 year olds is acceptable in Islam….10 year olds, Dude…Of course, there’s also prominent Saudi scholar Saleh Al-Fawzan who has declared that slavery is very much a part of Islam and those who proclaim otherwise really have no basis for their claims."

    Being from near that part of the UK, that is very doubtful. The men perpetrating this would be the typical thugs with low IQs and minimal life prospects who would go to a mosque very infrequently. The concept of them being familiar with the pronouncements of Saudi Islamic scholars is laughable. They would struggle to read the back of cereal packets.

    The concept of them being familiar with the pronouncements of Saudi Islamic scholars is laughable. They would struggle to read the back of cereal packets.

    No advanced reading required. Youtube and social media are brimming with Islamic “scholarship”.

  169. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The type of man thge British feministas hated were the old fashioned white working class type guys. The type of man who thought Bernard Manning or Jim Davidson were hilarious, whose everyday speech was blittered with casual racism and sexism, used phrases such as ‘getting your oats’ or even ‘pork sword’ in their speech and whose idea of foreplay was to break wind in bed, such types are typified by Britain’s notorious Sunday Sport newspaper owned by one David Sullivan.
    Compared to the muzzies, these so-called ‘monsters’ of hate figures were really teddy bears at a picnic.

  170. @Anonymous
    Say the problem is Islam and you can deflect the accusations of racism you would've received had you blamed Pakistanis and Pakistani culture. Of course, then you're called Islamophobic and receive a complimentary lecture on true Islam, but that diagnosis doesn't stick when ISIS, Al-Nusra, and homegrown mujahideen are all over the news. So the reigning thought police have shied away from that line of attack, and you get to be a non-racist. Hurray!

    But the problem is still Pakistani (and Moroccan, and Lebanese, and Turkish) more than it is Islamic, even though these lowlifes happen to have religion in common. Bring the dregs of sexually conservative and strongly ingroup favoring societies to an environment of sexual anarchy, where the native young women look and act like... prostitutes (from their perspective, at least) and this kind of madness ensues.

    But the problem is still Pakistani (and Moroccan, and Lebanese, and Turkish) more than it is Islamic, even though these lowlifes happen to have religion in common. Bring the dregs of sexually conservative and strongly ingroup favoring societies to an environment of sexual anarchy, where the native young women look and act like… prostitutes (from their perspective, at least) and this kind of madness ensues.

    Yes, it’s a total coincidence that all their cultures just happen to have so many striking similarities, and that they just happen to share the same religion. After all, everyone knows religion doesn’t effect culture, no way. It’s also a total coincidence that the Lebanese are less crazed than their neighbours. No patterns here whatsoever.

    And have you ever been to the smelly dump that is the MENA region? All women are prostitutes from their perspective. Even worse if they’re not wearing proper Islamic garb. Even worse if they’re not wearing Islamic garb at all. Way worse when the woman is blonde. They go crazy. It’s like a zoo over there.

  171. @Hard Line Realist
    Woman 'beheaded' in London garden from the BBC.

    Look at the picture of some of the residents in that report.

    They do not mention the race of the perp. When that happens it is clear it was not a white man.

    A picture still is worth a thousand words, no?

    Firstly, I apologize to Mr. Sailer for my insult the first paragraph in my post which he graciously highlighted. I really do think he’s brilliant on many issues. It’s just that there was a real lack of conversation about the ideology driving these Pakistani Muslim sex grooming gangs and it was very frustrating to see this conversation occur without that component. So, I sincerely apologize for any insult directed at Mr. Sailer.

    FYI, Raymond Ibrahim, an Egyptian Christian has written a brief article on Islamic sanctioned sex slavery;

    “….“Spoils of war” is quite correct. Here is how the late Majid Khadduri(died 2007), “internationally recognized as one of the world’s leading authorities on Islamic law and jurisprudence,” explained the idea of “spoils” in his War and Peace in the Law of Islam:

    The term spoil (ghanima) is applied specifically to property acquired by force from non-Muslims. It includes, however, not only property (movable and immovable) but also persons, whether in the capacity of asra (prisoners of war) or sabi (women and children). … If the slave were a woman, the master was permitted to have sexual connection with her as a concubine.

    Nor is this limited to academic talk. Last year, Jordanian Sheikh Yasir al-‘Ajlawni said Muslims fighting to topple “infidel” president Bashar Assad in Syria are permitted to “capture and have sex with” all non-Sunni women, including Shia Muslims, Alawites, Christians, Druze, and Yazidis.”
    Link: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/raymond-ibrahim/muslims-sexually-enslaving-children-a-global-phenomenon/

    Ibrahim also linked to a article from the Telegraph from last year where a British Imam fesses up to the fact that many mosques teach that sex slavery is entirely acceptable;

    ” Dr Taj Hargey, imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, said race and religion were inextricably linked to the recent spate of grooming rings in which Muslim men have targeted under-age white girls.

    Earlier this week seven members of a child sex ring from Oxford were found guilty of forcing under age girls to commit acts of “extreme depravity”.

    Their victims, aged between 11 and 15, were groomed and plied with alcohol and drugs before being sexually assaulted and forced into prostitution. They targeted “out of control” teenagers….

    …. The activities of the Oxford sex ring are “bound up with religion and race” because all the men – though of different nationalities – were Muslim and they “deliberately targeted vulnerable white girls, whom they appeared to regard as ‘easy meat’, to use one of their revealing, racist phrases”, Dr Hargey said.

    That attitude has been promoted by religious leaders, he believes. “On one level, most imams in the UK are simply using their puritanical sermons to promote the wearing of the hijab and even the burka among their female adherents. But the dire result can be the brutish misogyny we see in the Oxford sex ring.”

    People tiptoe around the issues and refuse to discuss the problems exposed by the scandals such as those “from Rochdale to Oxford, and Telford to Derby”, he wrote.

    In all cases the perpetrators were Muslim men and the victims were under age white girls.”

    Read the rest, it’s quite revealing; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10061217/Imams-promote-grooming-rings-Muslim-leader-claims.html

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    A picture still is worth a thousand words, no?
     
    And now we find out the truth:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/05/Nigerian-Muslim-Convert-Suspect-Edmonton

    If it's savagery, what is the probability that it was perpetrated by a black individual.

    Also, look at the age of the victim. It's just not cricket!
  172. @Numinous
    When was the United States every a completely white country (like, say, Denmark)? There have always been sizeable numbers of native Americans, blacks, and mestizos. Are you planning on kicking them all out?
    Unless "white" is a cultural (and not a racial) term to you. But then, non-whites can and do get acculturated to American norms.
    Either way, your hankering for a white United States makes little sense.

    America was about 90% white until at least 1960. Saying it was NOT a white country is basically false.

    • Replies: @Bliss

    America was about 90% white until at least 1960. Saying it was NOT a white country is basically false.
     
    In 1760 America was probably less than 70% white. In 1460 it was 0% white. The American Continent is not the ancestral homeland of whites. Europe is.
  173. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What can you expect from Islam when its very founder marries a six year old girl, and is said to have had sex with her when she was only nine? He was also into pillaging camel caravans too. It would be as if the viking ‘religion’ said raping and pillaging was “okay” (the will of Odin) and this was the standard faith across Europe today.

  174. Pakistan is one of the poorest and most backward countries on earth. Its culture and society are totally unlike that of Britain. They have absolutely nothing to offer to any western nation. WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY BE CONSIDERED SUITABLE IMMIGRANTS TO THE U.K.?

  175. @Mark Minter
    First this is all still Feminist wah wah. Here is the link to the report by Prof Alexis Jay from the Rotherham city government site. It is 150 pages.

    file:///home/chronos/user/Downloads/Independent_inquiry_CSE_in_Rotherham.pdf

    It covers activity by the city for since 1997. And during that time the city developed programs to deal with this situation. It is not as if this all went on with the police and the city turning a blind eye to what was happening.

    Rotherham is a city in South Essex of around 250,000 people. It is an old steel mill town that had all of its "rust belt" industry dry up and is poorer than average. 23% of the population live in Council Houses and the report says the welfare government benefits per capita are higher than the British average.

    In general what the press and the report describe as "the children" were basically a bunch of street prostitutes. The report said that over 1/3 of those involved in this situation were already known to the British version of CPS for various reasons. Meaning the place was poor and a lot of the same went on that goes on wherever poor people live. Some of it is due to poverty and others are due to being people of low conscientiousness and making really stupid choices and stupid lifestyles. The press likes to refer to these girls as "vulnerable" or "confused", low income girls, often with no father, mothers with drug abuse problems. But in the end, they were entitled white girls with an ass to peddle and they peddled it to swarthy brown men who are normally excluded from relationships with these sorts of precious little dears.

    The reason the police did not immediately sound the alarm about these Asian men "raping" these white girls , and this "grooming" them for prostitution, then in this "trafficking" them to other towns where they were "raped" by multiple men, and then the police showing "contempt" for the victims was that "victims" were prostitutes that were selling their precious little white asses for all the cash and prizes they could get by doing so. Basically when a lot of these situations came to light was for arrests for prostitution. These acts were entirely consensual and the word "rape" is used because of the letter of the law, any sex with a minor is considered "rape". They were not only consensual but they were paid, they negotiated a price. And anyone that knows hookers knows what swell people they are.

    And then when the report was read, then the feminist press changes the narrative from mercenary little shits who knew exactly what they doing, were completely aware they were breaking the law, who acted with agency, because there was cash to be gained, to poor little babies, victims, abused at the hands of these heinous brown men. In investigations the police found the acts to be entirely consensual and in willful violation of the law. This idea of "trafficking" is some guys told the girls if they came to this other city, then there would be some customers for them. So they were carried over there where they did multiple men, pocketed the cash, probably quite a lot of it actually, and went home with a fat wallet and a smile on their face for letting some brown men touch their precious little white body parts.

    In the end, no matter diverse diversity gets, our feminist overseers will insure that the top of the heap in the diversity pile will always be precious little white women and girls. I am sure that the plight of Pakis in England is a very lonely ordeal. White women show all kinds of love to blacks, Africans, Caribbeans, but I am sure that Paki men are way way down the sexual food chain, subject to massive dismissal and rejection from pristine little English roses, even the white trash ones from the Council House neighborhoods in a poor shithole like Rotherham. And the police and city government was probably correct in assuming that if they took cases like these and made a big too-doo about them, them it would all blow up where the Pakistani community would receive undo anger became some Paki men were paying little white trash whores for sex.

    This idea of "grooming" them was what? They asked the little tramps if they wanted to have sex with some men for cash? And these notices of "threats" were probably all part and parcel of underground prostitution. Some girls were having tricks arranged by one guy and and another one came along and offered a better deal. So then the first guy used strong arm tactics to say "No you don't. You gotta deal with me and you gotta stick to it". And the whole 11 and 12 year old ages listed were not the norm. The report listed ages of 11 to 20 something. The majority were not these extremely young girls. And I don't care if it is 11 or not, those girls knew they were breaking the law, they knew that prostitution is a crime in England. And the only reason they are portrayed as victims is exactly because they are girls. Boys would be sent of to reform school for participation in willful and organized conspiracies to break the law.

    And the investigations by the police uncovered exactly that these girls were acting with agency as prostitutes. The report lists several different "Operation Whatevers", where this big push went on to find and arrest these heinous perpetrators of all of this "exploitation" of the little princesses. And in the end no or very few arrests were made.

    Sailor, really in my opinion, this is something for you to stay out of. It has the smell of Ferguson where there was this big push for the Great White Defendant, only to find that the whole thing was a big piece of crap. And this is the same way. The fems are looking to roast the Paki men at the stake and then all of the local men in the Rotherham police and Government, where in the end, the real perpetrators of this situation are the white girls who knew exactly what they were doing in peddling their Erotic Capital for cash and prizes.

    In the end, to me, the problem here is that the morals of girls and women have sunk so low that "you go gurl"-ism leads them all to believe that it is perfectly fine for any girl or woman to cash in on her sexuality and that all men should pay for the wonderful privilege of even being in the vicinity of her highness. And you know the rest, resources will get mobilized, fem jobs will be funded, and this big CSE (Child Sexual Exploitation) hullaballoo will create make work for the faithful. The failure of the local government is that it failed to recognize that all little white girls are special princesses and treat them as such. Instead these "neglectful criminals" trusted their lying eyes, as well as their experience as trained police officers, and saw the little dears as a bunch of criminal whores who willfully broke the law in trading their "charms" for cash and prizes.

    : yours is the one & only interesting contrarian view, here.

  176. So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West.

    And produced none like him. Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced

    • Replies: @David R. Merridale
    Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced.

    True. The Muslim conquests reduced Christendom to a corridor stretching from the British Isles to Anatolia, 3000 miles long and 300-500 miles wide. The Frankish lands that would become the core of the West were far from Constantinople and lost their connection with the Greek side of Graeco-Roman culture.

    And the Second Dark Age of the 800s and 900s (worse than the Dark Age of the 400s and 500s, really) were caused as much by Muslim corsairs as by Magyars and Vikings. We hear a lot about the Crusader atrocities at the fall of Jerusalem, but not so much about the massacres at Genoa, Palermo, and Syracuse. Of course, those were Muslim massacres, so typically only the men were executed, while the women and children were taken as slaves, which is obviously preferable. If she played her cards right, an enterprising young lass might find herself in her master's bed! Then again, maybe she'd get prostituted out, as her choices were somewhat limited.

    There, brought the thread on topic again.

    , @gu
    "And produced none like him."

    Neither did the Christian West.
    , @JamestheFin
    This is an important point. That while the Muslims did digest the same Greek Philosophy and Science that their Christian counterparts in the West did, it was only in the West that Western Civilization blossomed into what it became. And they embraced the cultural aspects of the Graeco-Roman world-literature, art, plays, music, etc. That of course, had a huge impact upon the Renaissance which embraced the culture of the Greeks & Romans and really jump-started the progress which we now enjoy.

    I'd also disagree with those that claim that there wasn't any real progress in the West prior to the Renaissance. The rise of universities in the West from Bologna to Paris to Oxford occurred prior to the Crusades or concurrently with them. Of course the people and ideas that sprang forth from this intellectual milieu included Scholasticism and St. Thomas of Aquinas, Duns Scotus, and William of Ockham to name a few. And it's no surprise that the great Gothic cathedrals sprang up at this time either, incorporating geometric principles from the Greeks.

    As for Muslim improvement upon the Greeks, it's not as impressive as one may think. There were many Christians who did much of the translating of the ancient Greek texts into Arabic like the fifth century priest Probus of Antioch, who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic-speaking world. Another Christian, Huneyn ibn-Ishaq (from Al-Hira, south of Baghdad, 809-873), translated many works by Aristotle, Galen, Plato and Hippocrates into Syriac. His son then translated them into Arabic. The Syrian Christian Yahya ibn ‘Adi (born in Tikrit, 893-974) also translated works of philosophy into Arabic, and wrote one of his own, The Reformation of Morals. His student, another Syriac Christian named Abu ‘Ali ‘Isa ibn Zur’a (943-1008), also translated Aristotle and others from Syriac into Arabic.

    The problem for the Muslims was that once they exhausted the material and intellectual wealth of the non-Muslim's living under them through institutionalized discrimination, draconian laws, and punitive taxes like the Jizya(just for the right to exist as non-Muslims) there was no longer anyone left to create wealth. This is one of many reasons why the Muslim world is a dysfunctional crap hole.

    It's rather quite amazing. Muslims turned what had been some of the most inventive areas of the Classical world(Don't get me started on what the Muslim did in India...) and turned them into the backwards shyte-holes which they remain to this day.
    , @Anonymous
    "And produced none like him."
    Averroes , Alkindi ,Avicenna , Ibn khaldun , Alhazen ..ect All surpassed him in each fields and without them there would be no renaaisanse and your European continent would still be a backwater of civilization as it has always used to be .

    " Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced"

    there was intenational trade you dumb twat , the so called trade that you are talking about which was the trade between the eastern province and western provinces of the roman empire never broke up ,
    it was the dumb Europeans who were never intered to travel to the byzantines provinces and were only interested at plundering just like they have done in constantinople during the fourht crusades , anyway go fµck yourself Im tired of your stupidity and your ignorance
  177. @Whiskey
    Roissy/Heartiste said famously that Feminism is about maximizing female sexual freedom, Alpha Male sexual freedom, and limiting that of beta males to ... nothing. You might argue that feminists ultimate enemy is beta males, who not being sexy they'd like to castrate or turn gay or exterminate.

    This is nothing new. Feminism benefits ordinary women tremendously, they can have all the Alpha males they want (just not commitment from them but sex sure). Look at Arnold's Maid, the one he fathered a kid with. Not exactly a face that launched a thousand ships. Not even a face that launched a boogie board. Poverty and violence and misery go along with that, but women would rather starve with a sexy Alpha now and then, than eat regularly with a non-sexy beta male.

    One of the reasons women are so fat now is that they CAN BE. And still get sex. See Arnold's maid.

    Also feminism is an upper class phenomena. Richer White women with money raging against the patriarchy. That is ... unsexy White beta males. Not real patriarchs raping twelve year olds. No not them. THOSE GUYS they can't get enough of -- the number of women converting to Islam in the UK vastly exceeds those of men.

    Finally, Roissy had in his twitter feed a retweet of an observation that Liberalism is all part of a sadomasochistic religion with various penances: jogging, vegetarianism, tofu, soy milk, green recycling, "green" anti-combustion engine activism, and race cuckoldry. Racial penance for rich White people being born rich and White. Enforced Vibrancy is like what Steve said on his old site -- the best way to prevent kids from forming racist outlooks is for them not to get their heads beat in by kids of other races.

    We live in the most religious age. Women in particular are the most religious. Its just not Christianity they are religious about anymore, but SWPL-ism, racial penance, "cleansing," and bogus "healing" rituals where some fat Black woman with "sassy" attitude changes around their life: Oprah, Viola Davis in her new series, the ladies on the View, etc. Personally I'd look elsewhere for wisdom than Queen Latifah or Whoopi Goldberg, but that's just me. I'm not a chick.

    Also feminism is an upper class phenomena. Richer White women with money raging against the patriarchy. That is … unsexy White beta males. Not real patriarchs raping twelve year olds. No not them. THOSE GUYS they can’t get enough of — the number of women converting to Islam in the UK vastly exceeds those of men.

    The women converting are not upper class, they are those forced to live around Muslims.

  178. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Ah, immigration to Haiti! Sounds like a fine plan.

    According to this random chart on the Internet, 14.3% of the US population is immigrant. In Haiti, the figure is 0.4%. Those Haitains are real slouches, they need to get with the program! Get covered in universal goodness and all!

    Then there’s this, which I take it was how things stood until the US invaded the place in 1915, presumably due to WWI or something related to it:

    “Prior the United States occupation of Haiti, both the Haitian citizenship and the right to purchase land or any property was vetoed to white people.”.

    Mighty… something of them.

    Haitans have some sense “…people born to foreigners on Haitian soil are not automatically Haitian citizens due to the jus sanguinis (from Latin, meaning “right of blood”) principle of nationality law.”

    Then, of course, Haiti is one of the few places in history were they actually did kill all the white people, back in the day… “The 1804 Haiti Massacre was a genocide, which was carried out against the remaining white population… A second wave of massacres targeted white women and children.” Surely that type of thing could never happen in the modern world, ethnic cleansing is a thing of the past.

  179. @Difference Maker
    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West.

    And produced none like him. Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced

    Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced.

    True. The Muslim conquests reduced Christendom to a corridor stretching from the British Isles to Anatolia, 3000 miles long and 300-500 miles wide. The Frankish lands that would become the core of the West were far from Constantinople and lost their connection with the Greek side of Graeco-Roman culture.

    And the Second Dark Age of the 800s and 900s (worse than the Dark Age of the 400s and 500s, really) were caused as much by Muslim corsairs as by Magyars and Vikings. We hear a lot about the Crusader atrocities at the fall of Jerusalem, but not so much about the massacres at Genoa, Palermo, and Syracuse. Of course, those were Muslim massacres, so typically only the men were executed, while the women and children were taken as slaves, which is obviously preferable. If she played her cards right, an enterprising young lass might find herself in her master’s bed! Then again, maybe she’d get prostituted out, as her choices were somewhat limited.

    There, brought the thread on topic again.

    • Replies: @HA
    "If she played her cards right, an enterprising young lass might find herself in her master’s bed!"

    And all of it permissible under the highest Sharia rigor.

    At this point, we need to remind ourselves that Islam is the religion Malcolm X chose partly out of the shame he felt from having a mother born out of act of rape by his slave-owner grandfather. (Actually, it was an offshoot of Islam, but whatever -- no Christianity for him, that's for sure.)

    You gotta wonder – did that guy ever have a face-palm moment where the absurdity took hold, or is even that expecting too much?

    , @Anonymous
    Go fµck yourself with your lies.

    the so called dark ages started already before the rise of islam and stemed from the 5th century to the the 15 th century which means that for a period of 1000 years Europe was a backwater of civilization.
    there is no record of muslims massacre this is just lies made up by christians as usual however there a re records of christians massacre from historians :
    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gbb_heathens.htm
    quoting :
    The Christianisation of Iceland was much less bloody than usual, although it shows the technique. A Saxon missionary, Friedrich arrived in the tenth century but was forced to leave when his assistant Thorvaldur killed too many locals. In AD 1000 King Olav of Norway (Ólafur Tryggvason again) was possessed by one of his periodic bouts of Christian zeal. As an Icelandic historian, Jón Hjálmarsson, relates:

    King Ólafur's first missionary to Iceland was Stefnir Thorgilsson, a native of Iceland, who started by attacking and breaking down heathen temples, and was promptly exiled. Next, the King sent a Flemish priest named Thangbrandur, who had reached Norway via England. He managed to baptise several of the noble Icelandic chieftains, but as he could not tolerate any opposition and killed several men who spoke against him, he too had to leave the country*.

    Further Christian missionaries so destabilised the country that Thorgeir, the lawspeaker, was asked to decide what should be done. A liberal and tolerant pagan himself, he decided that the best way to keep the peace was that Christianity should be adopted as the national religion, but that the people should be allowed to keep many of their traditional practices, including the right to worship in private whatever gods they chose. It seemed to be more than fair. Hjálmarsson says of the conversion:

    The introduction of Christianity in Iceland was a peaceful and almost unique historical event. It was quite different from the prolonged conflicts, warfare and bloodshed which customarily accompanied Christianization in most other countries. This peaceful settlement arose probably more for political than religious reasons.

    atrocities that continued even after the so called enlightment :
    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gh5_atrocities.htm
  180. @Anonymous
    America was about 90% white until at least 1960. Saying it was NOT a white country is basically false.

    America was about 90% white until at least 1960. Saying it was NOT a white country is basically false.

    In 1760 America was probably less than 70% white. In 1460 it was 0% white. The American Continent is not the ancestral homeland of whites. Europe is.

  181. @Whiskey
    Roissy/Heartiste said famously that Feminism is about maximizing female sexual freedom, Alpha Male sexual freedom, and limiting that of beta males to ... nothing. You might argue that feminists ultimate enemy is beta males, who not being sexy they'd like to castrate or turn gay or exterminate.

    This is nothing new. Feminism benefits ordinary women tremendously, they can have all the Alpha males they want (just not commitment from them but sex sure). Look at Arnold's Maid, the one he fathered a kid with. Not exactly a face that launched a thousand ships. Not even a face that launched a boogie board. Poverty and violence and misery go along with that, but women would rather starve with a sexy Alpha now and then, than eat regularly with a non-sexy beta male.

    One of the reasons women are so fat now is that they CAN BE. And still get sex. See Arnold's maid.

    Also feminism is an upper class phenomena. Richer White women with money raging against the patriarchy. That is ... unsexy White beta males. Not real patriarchs raping twelve year olds. No not them. THOSE GUYS they can't get enough of -- the number of women converting to Islam in the UK vastly exceeds those of men.

    Finally, Roissy had in his twitter feed a retweet of an observation that Liberalism is all part of a sadomasochistic religion with various penances: jogging, vegetarianism, tofu, soy milk, green recycling, "green" anti-combustion engine activism, and race cuckoldry. Racial penance for rich White people being born rich and White. Enforced Vibrancy is like what Steve said on his old site -- the best way to prevent kids from forming racist outlooks is for them not to get their heads beat in by kids of other races.

    We live in the most religious age. Women in particular are the most religious. Its just not Christianity they are religious about anymore, but SWPL-ism, racial penance, "cleansing," and bogus "healing" rituals where some fat Black woman with "sassy" attitude changes around their life: Oprah, Viola Davis in her new series, the ladies on the View, etc. Personally I'd look elsewhere for wisdom than Queen Latifah or Whoopi Goldberg, but that's just me. I'm not a chick.

    Also feminism is an upper class phenomena.

    I don’t think consuming works by Kate Millet is a patrician hobby. Academic and journalistic feminism (writing on social relations which takes as points of departure the notion that women have options and men have obligations and that only the interests of women are important) is a phenomenon among the class which produces it – the professional-managerial bourgeoisie and dependents and hangers-on thereof. Popular feminism (the tendency to look upon men as pets, ATM machines, and employees, and, in any state, disposable and responsible for all domestic problems) is all over (but not evenly distributed). Now, as was the case fifty years ago, the most unstable households tend to be wage-earning households (for whatever reason).

  182. @Difference Maker
    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West.

    And produced none like him. Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced

    “And produced none like him.”

    Neither did the Christian West.

    • Replies: @HA
    "Neither did the Christian West."

    That's your opinion. There are more systematic and objective ways to approach that topic.

  183. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “In 1760 America was probably less than 70% white. In 1460 it was 0% white.”

    Recently there have been some stories about something happening to the Dorset people in the extreme north, prior to 1460. Alas: “There appears to be no genetic connection between the Dorset and the Thule who replaced them, indicating a lack of intermarriage.”

    FWIW, that 9000 year-old Kennewick skeleton in Washington state finally got studied. He was apparently genetically similar to the Jomon people (probably ancestor of modern Ainu) in Japan, although there is no implication he came from Japan. He probably belonged to a group that spread slowly along the coast from north eastern Asia via an Aleutian route. What happened to these people?

    “Skulls older than 8,000 years old have been found to possess greater physical diversity than do those of modern Native Americans. This range implies that there was a genetic shift in populations about 8,000 years ago.”

    People traveled around a lot in the past and aren’t rooted to the ground like trees.

    The United States of America, the country founded in 1776, was a small white country; that was just who the founders were. One reason it was founded was to protect whites during Indian Wars. There had been some pretty brutal massacres on both sides, prior, during wars such as King Philip’s War:

    “…considered by many to be the deadliest war in American history…. …in the space of little more than a year… losing one-tenth of all men available for military service. More than half of New England’s towns were attacked by Native American warriors. …

    …English colonies in America were settled without any significant English government support… King Philip’s War began the development of a greater American identity…”

  184. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…considered by many to be the deadliest war in American history…. …in the space of little more than a year… losing one-tenth of all men available for military service. More than half of New England’s towns were attacked by Native American warriors. …

    …English colonies in America were settled without any significant English government support… King Philip’s War began the development of a greater American identity…”

    Here’s what should be a working link to King Philips War.

  185. I’m blacker than Obama

    Since you are here in the isteve comments section mixing it up, my respect for your intellectual openness and apparent racial independence.

    My guess about West and Baker and perhaps ‘hooks’ is that they were ruined by lack of honest feedback about their draft publications and got a mess of positive feedback for producing rococo verbiage which had nothing behind it.

    I think that in general White America seems to think that giving space to black anger/strong self-assertion, whether on the streets or in academia, will mean that it will eventually exhaust itself and peace will prevail. I think that that’s why whites who don’t give space to black anger (evil conservatives, etc) are considered wreckers – the idea is that black anger remains because not all whites are on board with the be a good respectful listener program.

    Anyway, yeah. Agreed that lack of honest feedback/pushback/engagement does generally make a person believe their own shit.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I guess my joke did not fly.

    Gov. Blagojevich once worked as a shoe-shine boy and lived in racially mixed neighborhoods. Blacks were people he knew and socialized with; the President had no connection to the domestic black population (other than the eccentric Frank Marshall Davis) and tried to learn about blackness by watching Soul Train. Wasn't necessary for me as I'm Rustbelt born and bred and blacks were in my social circle.

    My family's actually old colonial for the most part, with no immigration after about 1850 and most already present by 1780. (From Ulster, more than any other place).
  186. In 1760 America was probably less than 70% white. In 1460 it was 0% white. The American Continent is not the ancestral homeland of whites. Europe is.

    C. 2000 BC, Israel was 0% Jewish, and 100% Canaanite. Israel is not the ancestral homeland of the Jews. It’s the ancestral homeland of the Canaanites.

  187. @Ian
    @Art Deco

    I’m blacker than Obama
     
    Since you are here in the isteve comments section mixing it up, my respect for your intellectual openness and apparent racial independence.

    My guess about West and Baker and perhaps ‘hooks’ is that they were ruined by lack of honest feedback about their draft publications and got a mess of positive feedback for producing rococo verbiage which had nothing behind it.
     
    I think that in general White America seems to think that giving space to black anger/strong self-assertion, whether on the streets or in academia, will mean that it will eventually exhaust itself and peace will prevail. I think that that's why whites who don't give space to black anger (evil conservatives, etc) are considered wreckers - the idea is that black anger remains because not all whites are on board with the be a good respectful listener program.

    Anyway, yeah. Agreed that lack of honest feedback/pushback/engagement does generally make a person believe their own shit.

    I guess my joke did not fly.

    Gov. Blagojevich once worked as a shoe-shine boy and lived in racially mixed neighborhoods. Blacks were people he knew and socialized with; the President had no connection to the domestic black population (other than the eccentric Frank Marshall Davis) and tried to learn about blackness by watching Soul Train. Wasn’t necessary for me as I’m Rustbelt born and bred and blacks were in my social circle.

    My family’s actually old colonial for the most part, with no immigration after about 1850 and most already present by 1780. (From Ulster, more than any other place).

  188. @David R. Merridale
    Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced.

    True. The Muslim conquests reduced Christendom to a corridor stretching from the British Isles to Anatolia, 3000 miles long and 300-500 miles wide. The Frankish lands that would become the core of the West were far from Constantinople and lost their connection with the Greek side of Graeco-Roman culture.

    And the Second Dark Age of the 800s and 900s (worse than the Dark Age of the 400s and 500s, really) were caused as much by Muslim corsairs as by Magyars and Vikings. We hear a lot about the Crusader atrocities at the fall of Jerusalem, but not so much about the massacres at Genoa, Palermo, and Syracuse. Of course, those were Muslim massacres, so typically only the men were executed, while the women and children were taken as slaves, which is obviously preferable. If she played her cards right, an enterprising young lass might find herself in her master's bed! Then again, maybe she'd get prostituted out, as her choices were somewhat limited.

    There, brought the thread on topic again.

    “If she played her cards right, an enterprising young lass might find herself in her master’s bed!”

    And all of it permissible under the highest Sharia rigor.

    At this point, we need to remind ourselves that Islam is the religion Malcolm X chose partly out of the shame he felt from having a mother born out of act of rape by his slave-owner grandfather. (Actually, it was an offshoot of Islam, but whatever — no Christianity for him, that’s for sure.)

    You gotta wonder – did that guy ever have a face-palm moment where the absurdity took hold, or is even that expecting too much?

  189. @Difference Maker
    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West.

    And produced none like him. Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced

    This is an important point. That while the Muslims did digest the same Greek Philosophy and Science that their Christian counterparts in the West did, it was only in the West that Western Civilization blossomed into what it became. And they embraced the cultural aspects of the Graeco-Roman world-literature, art, plays, music, etc. That of course, had a huge impact upon the Renaissance which embraced the culture of the Greeks & Romans and really jump-started the progress which we now enjoy.

    I’d also disagree with those that claim that there wasn’t any real progress in the West prior to the Renaissance. The rise of universities in the West from Bologna to Paris to Oxford occurred prior to the Crusades or concurrently with them. Of course the people and ideas that sprang forth from this intellectual milieu included Scholasticism and St. Thomas of Aquinas, Duns Scotus, and William of Ockham to name a few. And it’s no surprise that the great Gothic cathedrals sprang up at this time either, incorporating geometric principles from the Greeks.

    As for Muslim improvement upon the Greeks, it’s not as impressive as one may think. There were many Christians who did much of the translating of the ancient Greek texts into Arabic like the fifth century priest Probus of Antioch, who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic-speaking world. Another Christian, Huneyn ibn-Ishaq (from Al-Hira, south of Baghdad, 809-873), translated many works by Aristotle, Galen, Plato and Hippocrates into Syriac. His son then translated them into Arabic. The Syrian Christian Yahya ibn ‘Adi (born in Tikrit, 893-974) also translated works of philosophy into Arabic, and wrote one of his own, The Reformation of Morals. His student, another Syriac Christian named Abu ‘Ali ‘Isa ibn Zur’a (943-1008), also translated Aristotle and others from Syriac into Arabic.

    The problem for the Muslims was that once they exhausted the material and intellectual wealth of the non-Muslim’s living under them through institutionalized discrimination, draconian laws, and punitive taxes like the Jizya(just for the right to exist as non-Muslims) there was no longer anyone left to create wealth. This is one of many reasons why the Muslim world is a dysfunctional crap hole.

    It’s rather quite amazing. Muslims turned what had been some of the most inventive areas of the Classical world(Don’t get me started on what the Muslim did in India…) and turned them into the backwards shyte-holes which they remain to this day.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It amaze me how christian trash like you distort history in order to give christians credits of things they never achieved and in the same time discredits muslims of theire achievements ....

    " That of course, had a huge impact upon the Renaissance which embraced the culture of the Greeks & Romans and really jump-started the progress which we now enjoy."

    go read a history book you dumb twat , the renniassance owes very little to the greeks and virtually nothing to the romans who invented nothing of their own , the renaissance started after chrsitians beginned to absorb and assimilate knowledges produced from the islamic world :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe
    the concept of Algebra , the scientific methods and the numbers you used today did not originate from the greeks but from the muslim world.

    "I’d also disagree with those that claim that there wasn’t any real progress in the West prior to the Renaissance."

    there isn't a single major invention or discovery Europeans made at that time so its still correct to assert that there was no european advancement at that time , and building universities is worth of nothing if there is no intellectual activity on them , which is the case of most of the universities you cited , as for the intellectuals you cite ,all of them were simply theologians and din't study beyond religion.

    "As for Muslim improvement upon the Greeks, it’s not as impressive as one may think. There "

    of course that is according to a christian apologist who can't stomach the fact that the followers of his religion never contributed anything at that period of time.
    by the way , muslims didn't made improvements upon the greeks , rather they were influeced by greek works and later they develloped their ows science , oh and the greeks borrowed most of what they know from the egytptians , babylonians and phoenicians.
    beside , musllims invented Algebra ,the scientific method , the field of crypto-analyse , chemistry and the numerals that you use today , what did your pathetic christians invent at those time ? nothing , there wasn't a single mathematician , physycian , astonomer or a philosopher that europe pruduce at tham time since Europe was a backwater of civilization at those time
    and the reestof the garbage you wrote is a copy/paste from this garbage book :
    "https://books.google.it/books?id=V4gUQZhRGKUC&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=%22Probus+of+Antioch%22&source=bl&ots=P3xgKUNCWx&sig=Jl7ZstMurlIhwSP7ApP23yn776M&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiV0JP8-9jcAhWCXsAKHS8nB2wQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Probus%20of%20Antioch%22&f=false"

    "The problem for the Muslims was that once they exhausted the material and intellectual wealth of the non-Muslim’s living under them through institutionalized discrimination, draconian laws, and punitive taxes like the Jizya(just for the right to exist as non-Muslims) there was no longer anyone left to create wealth. "

    Avicenna , Al khwarimiz ,Averoes , Alhazen , Alkindi were all muslims not christians , jews or whatever so you are ust spewing B.S
    you just showed that you are nothing but a subhuman liar and a piece of shit , what should i epect from christian trash since they are only good at lying ...
    exausted ? shut the fuck up liying trash , there was no intellecutal and material wealth in the lands that was occupied by byzantins and the sassanids , it was the muslims who created this wealth themselves and this is proven by the fact that the majority of the scholars were Arab and persian muslims :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

    it amazes me how you have the audacity to say that muslims persecuted non-muslims through taxes , when at tham times christians have literraly LAUGHTERED all the pagans of their lands and went even as far to persecut the aothers christians who did not adhere to there same branch of their faith :
    Jacobite(Coptic) had been persecuted and mistreated by the Orthodox . Jacobite hated tyrannical Byzantine administrations. (according to Caetani vol 1v p 81 , Justinian is said to have had 200,000 Copts put to death in the city of Alexandria
    Wansleben : THE PRESENT STATE OF EGYPT ,p 11 (London 1678)

    "This is one of many reasons why the Muslim world is a dysfunctional crap hole."
    the only crap hole is the one that subhumans like you came from .
    Turkey, Qatar ,Malaysia , Azrbaijan , kazahstan , indonesia and the gulf countries are better than half of the christian countries inculding most of the eastern european countries of this earth, in fact the only dysfunctial muslims countries are the one that have been the only dysfunctional muslims countries are the one that have been ruined by the barbarian christian west like Iraq ,Lybia and currently Syria

    "It’s rather quite amazing. Muslims turned what had been some of the most inventive areas of the Classical world(Don’t get me started on what the Muslim did in India…) and turned them into the backwards shyte-holes which they remain to this day."

    what is amazing her is how christian trash like you rewrite history in order to clean the barbaric christians of their crimes and accuse muslims of the inverse off what they had done.
    muslims are the one who liberated the middle east from the parastic byzantines persians who were pillaging Egypt and mesopotamia respectively and after less than a century , those areas experienced a golden age whereas the pathetic christians were experiencing the dark ages since the previous land that they plundering no longer belonged to them.
    when India was ruled by muslims, it was the richest country on earth with a GDP of 20% however after the barbarian british colonized that country and left it , India's GDP was less than 2%
    and the only shyt-hole is the one that yoy came from , it was the barbarica christian who colonized those religion during WW1 and carved thme according to their own interest , it was also those same barbaric christians who invaded Iraq ,Lybia and currently Syria , killed million of people there and ruined those country and stealed their resources so Go Fµck yourself.
  190. iSteveFan says:

    In 1760 America was probably less than 70% white. In 1460 it was 0% white. The American Continent is not the ancestral homeland of whites. Europe is.

    I don’t know how accurate these numbers are, but according to wiki, the black population in 1760 was about 20%. So the whites would have been around 80%, unless the census included a lot of natives in the jurisdiction of the colonies. So it would appear that the white population was not less than 70%.

    Regardless of that percentage or whether whites were here in 1460, one thing is clear. People coming the USA today are not coming here for the land. There is nothing magical about the real estate that lures people from China or Mexico to the USA. No, they are coming here for the political and economic institutions created by white Europeans. There are coming here to live in the cities created by those Europeans, to attend the educational institutions created by those Europeans, and to participate in the economy created by those Europeans.

    If people were just coming to the New World today for the land, then they could just as easily go to Mexico and all points south. But they don’t. They are coming to Canada, Australia and the USA. In other words, North America and Australia were not really desirable destinations to the masses of humanity until the European created the economic and political ecosystems that made them so desirable.

    White Europeans, especially the English, are the real native Americans, and thus have every right to be here and to regard this as their homeland. For the USA is more than just some piece of land on the map. It is the political and economic embodiment of a civilization that could only have come out of the European, and more specifically English, experience.

  191. White Europeans, especially the English, are the real native Americans

    So the irish, the germans, the slavs, the italians, the jews etc are not the real native americans? In other words the majority of whites in America should be lumped with hispanics, asians, blacks and amerindians?

    By your definition the arabs, africans and berbers who conquered Spain and Portugal, subjugated the native europeans and put their civilizational stamp on the iberian peninsula, were the real native iberians for many centuries until they were kicked out
    by the previous native iberians? Agree or disagree?

  192. iSteveFan says:

    So the irish, the germans, the slavs, the italians, the jews etc are not the real native americans? In other words the majority of whites in America should be lumped with hispanics, asians, blacks and amerindians?

    Read my quote. I wrote, “White Europeans, especially the English, are the real native Americans”. White Europeans includes those groups you mentioned. How can you interpret the phrase, especially the English to mean ONLY the English?

    By your definition the arabs, africans and berbers who conquered Spain and Portugal, subjugated the native europeans and put their civilizational stamp on the iberian peninsula, were the real native iberians for many centuries until they were kicked out
    by the previous native iberians? Agree or disagree?

    I think you could say that. During the muslim reign, especially in the areas that had several centuries of muslim rule, they in effect became the natives. It was their civilization and customs that predominated, and they were probably better adapted to to live and prosper there than the Christians who became outcasts.

    The muslims took Christian lands by force, and the Christians retook the land by force. The Christians did not flock in to take advantage of the society that the muslims created. They wanted their own society and they won it. In the areas the Christians liberated, they expelled the muslims and reestablished their own civilization. They did not leach off the muslims’ society.

    If today’s non-Europeans were doing the same thing in the US, Canada and Australia, then you would see them forcefully take over the land, create their own cities, institutions and economy. And create their own political entity. Instead, you see the non-Europeans actively seeking to live among the Europeans for the political stability and economic opportunity the Europeans provide. Rather than trying to force the Europeans to leave and make their own country, they seem to want to keep them around so that they can continue to benefit from the advanced society those Euros created. They don’t seem to have a desire or ability to create their own unique civilization. If they did, then New World nations like Mexico would already be highly functioning places.

  193. @gu
    "And produced none like him."

    Neither did the Christian West.

    “Neither did the Christian West.”

    That’s your opinion. There are more systematic and objective ways to approach that topic.

  194. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @JamestheFin
    A picture still is worth a thousand words, no?

    Firstly, I apologize to Mr. Sailer for my insult the first paragraph in my post which he graciously highlighted. I really do think he's brilliant on many issues. It's just that there was a real lack of conversation about the ideology driving these Pakistani Muslim sex grooming gangs and it was very frustrating to see this conversation occur without that component. So, I sincerely apologize for any insult directed at Mr. Sailer.

    FYI, Raymond Ibrahim, an Egyptian Christian has written a brief article on Islamic sanctioned sex slavery;

    "....“Spoils of war” is quite correct. Here is how the late Majid Khadduri(died 2007), “internationally recognized as one of the world’s leading authorities on Islamic law and jurisprudence,” explained the idea of “spoils” in his War and Peace in the Law of Islam:

    The term spoil (ghanima) is applied specifically to property acquired by force from non-Muslims. It includes, however, not only property (movable and immovable) but also persons, whether in the capacity of asra (prisoners of war) or sabi (women and children). … If the slave were a woman, the master was permitted to have sexual connection with her as a concubine.

    Nor is this limited to academic talk. Last year, Jordanian Sheikh Yasir al-‘Ajlawni said Muslims fighting to topple “infidel” president Bashar Assad in Syria are permitted to “capture and have sex with” all non-Sunni women, including Shia Muslims, Alawites, Christians, Druze, and Yazidis."
    Link: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/raymond-ibrahim/muslims-sexually-enslaving-children-a-global-phenomenon/

    Ibrahim also linked to a article from the Telegraph from last year where a British Imam fesses up to the fact that many mosques teach that sex slavery is entirely acceptable;

    " Dr Taj Hargey, imam of the Oxford Islamic Congregation, said race and religion were inextricably linked to the recent spate of grooming rings in which Muslim men have targeted under-age white girls.

    Earlier this week seven members of a child sex ring from Oxford were found guilty of forcing under age girls to commit acts of "extreme depravity".

    Their victims, aged between 11 and 15, were groomed and plied with alcohol and drugs before being sexually assaulted and forced into prostitution. They targeted "out of control" teenagers....

    .... The activities of the Oxford sex ring are “bound up with religion and race” because all the men - though of different nationalities - were Muslim and they “deliberately targeted vulnerable white girls, whom they appeared to regard as 'easy meat', to use one of their revealing, racist phrases”, Dr Hargey said.

    That attitude has been promoted by religious leaders, he believes. “On one level, most imams in the UK are simply using their puritanical sermons to promote the wearing of the hijab and even the burka among their female adherents. But the dire result can be the brutish misogyny we see in the Oxford sex ring.”

    People tiptoe around the issues and refuse to discuss the problems exposed by the scandals such as those “from Rochdale to Oxford, and Telford to Derby”, he wrote.

    In all cases the perpetrators were Muslim men and the victims were under age white girls."

    Read the rest, it's quite revealing; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10061217/Imams-promote-grooming-rings-Muslim-leader-claims.html

    A picture still is worth a thousand words, no?

    And now we find out the truth:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/05/Nigerian-Muslim-Convert-Suspect-Edmonton

    If it’s savagery, what is the probability that it was perpetrated by a black individual.

    Also, look at the age of the victim. It’s just not cricket!

  195. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Kinstlinger
    Gotta say, these knuckleheads weren't behaving like true Muslims. True muslims know their 72 virgins await in the afterlife, they don't need to try to take possession of them here in the real world.

    True muslims know their 72 virgins await in the afterlife

    As someone pointed out, maybe that’s 72 Raisins.

  196. Ok, Obviously I struck a nerve. Let me say the intent of my comment is not to be pro-immigration in any way. The thrust of it was twofold

    1) Steve Sailer is the most influential writer, in my opinion, on the topic of the truth and science about immigration, IQ, genetics, and race reality. I feel that when the dust clears from this topic, that this will not be something he should risk his credibility on in comparing this situation in Rotherham to other situations. When you scratch the surface of this, the princesses involved are way way less than admirable characters and it is better to steer clear of this episode.

    2) Someone could get run over by all the white knight Captain Save-A-Ho men rushing in to protect the honor of all these blameless damsels in distress. And I ain’t buying the hype.

    I am part of a different section of this Dark Enlightenment that focuses on women and one thing I have learned over there is that No One Ever Went Broke Underestimating the Morality of Women and Girls. The depravity, immorality, and attention whoring among women and girls has long passed critical mass and I am never shocked anymore at any thing women and girls do.

    I watch this video streaming site that shows normal entertainment, not porn, but if you click on just about anything then other tabs and sites pop up. And constantly I am barraged by some crap like the last one that just popped up, SlutRoulette. There was this video of this girl on a cam, in a bedroom, in underwear and a tank top and she is asking the camera if the viewer wants her to be naughty. The girl looked to be anywhere in age from 15 to 18 where it is implied that she is 18. The ad before that was for Single Moms and Married Women in my neighborhood that “just want to have sex with me”.

    And I can go on and on. I used to be a member of the match site in Colombia and about 5 times I ran into girls that had profiles that said 18 (because that was the minimum age join the site) then at first contact they said they were 14 or 15. And they were all pushing for some sort of angle to fleece the men on the site. I traveled in Colombia a lot and I would see young girls, 13-15 standing on the side of roads late at night and I would ask the cab driver what those girls were doing there at 3 in the morning . And the driver would say “Son prepagos” (They’re hookers). I was also part of an international site and let me you, English girls on that particular site were some of the most mercenary little twits you would ever encounter. Massively entitled.

    And the general trend I notice is that with the web, both female hypergamy, financial entitlement, and profit taking of female sexual capital have just jumped through the roof with expanded access coupled with anonymity in the internet. It doesn’t take much of a leap of faith for me to think that some Council House girls living with some broke ass single mom, who probably acts like a slut herself, with no father around, would jump at the opportunity to take cash and prizes, get that spiffy iPhone with that neat little jeweled case, get those fake nails she wants, that designer purse, those clothes, especially if all she has to do to get is just be “fabulous” and be wanted and desired by some men. Especially when all the other girls are doing it. I don’t necessarily buy in to the coercion that every one is assuming. That’s the white knight in you talking to you. Captain SaveAHo nonsense.

    And when the world Trafficking is used, then my alarm definitely goes off because I know this is one of those terms used to trump up business for those bureaucrats that are hunting for funding for something or the other. Yeah, they passed a law that said all girlfriend had to say when busted for prostitution is that “she was trafficked” and she gets a get out of jail card. Yeah trafficking Yeah. I seen ads in Colombian classifieds offering $2000 a month to go to work in a “bar” in Panama. And those girls know exactly what that entails and they line up for the deal. They stay for the 3 months, come back to Colombia, get breast implants, then head right back knowing the ropes and make $8000 a month. Yet all the papers scream “Trafficking of Women to Panama”. In Malta, the EU removed the visa power from the country and gave it to Denmark because of all the Visas extended to Russian and Ukranian girls, in the internet era where there are no secrets. Yet all the papers talked about was trafficking where all those men old men brought those innocent girls down there.

    Nobody is going to convince me these were some freaking girl scouts sitting around playing with their barbies or doing their homework when these mean old Paki men came along and “groomed” them, whatever the eff that means, against their will into being the little whores they became.

    This is question that has occupied us for like forever, the chicken or the egg syndrome of prostitution. I just finished reading William Sanger’s book The History of Prostitution written in 1848. Sanger was the Prison Doctor at some island in New York that served as a women’s jail where most of the inmates were prostitutes. The city of New York was pressing for some solution to an epidemic of prostitution coupled with an outbreak in venereal disease. Sanger was some sort of renaissance man with an education in antiquities, well spoken, and an excellent writer. He traces through widely known literature all the way back to Babylon, Greece Rome, Medieval Europe, all the way up the mid 1800s in New York citing the classics and other sources of history. Inevitably, all societies prosecuted the “procurer” far more than the hookers. Yet during times of high levels of prostitution Sanger noted the ridiculously high levels of immorality among women. And we over in the Woman Hatin’ part of the Dark Enlightenment now exactly what was going on, high hypergamy and sluttish woman chasing alphas at the expense of the betas.

    So you all need to keep in mind that the folks who brought you this report are from the same cloth as those that reported this 20% rape rate among college girls using a sample from two schools yielded results of from 1% to 5% given the threshold of the definition of rape (as some where pretty loose criteria) then took the upper boundaries multiple it times 4 and voila, 1 in 5 girls where being Sexually Assaulted.

    So I gotz reason to be suspicious of any sort of thing like this that spits out some numbers screaming 1400 11 year old girls were raped and the police did nothing about it because the men were immigrants. Like, I said, I read the report. And just like Debryshire wrote in his essay on Time magazine’s article on Ferguson. There are ways the “enlightened” fellow reads these sorts of things. When the word Tragedy is used in this context, then he knows exactly what that means.

    And I’m telling you there is some Feminist nonsense going on here that in the end, not just Paki will pay, but all men.

    I sympathize with the issues Sailer writes about and I am a daily reader. But my war is with Feminists and Women and Imma take the side of all men in that war. And in this case I am saying to all of you …. Not so fast.

    • Replies: @HA
    I watch this video streaming site…

    Link, please. Wait, on second thought, never mind. You point to the existence of banner ads for porn sites featuring "underage slutz!" (or whatever) as proof that sex-grooming is a scam? Talk about digging yourself in deeper! You should have quit while you were behind.

    Yeah, teenage hustlers from dysfunctional backgrounds are an ongoing problem. Civilized people still don’t allow groups of men to come in and make a pound or ten passing them around to one another, even if they leave a few on the nightstand that the girls can keep afterwards. In fact, there are strict laws against that kind of thing, and outside the Sharia-belt, we don't make exceptions if the girls are kuffar, or if they were captured in battle, or if the abuser happens to fancy himself a prophet.

    And if those men happen to be a bunch of Pakistanis for whom the PC police (literally, the PC police) run defense, there's going to be angry words about that, too. If that’s a problem for you, try getting your head out those supposedly “normal entertainment” streaming sites a little more often. I’m pretty sure part of your problem begins there, though you seem to have deeper issues that you should get help for.

  197. @Mark Minter
    Ok, Obviously I struck a nerve. Let me say the intent of my comment is not to be pro-immigration in any way. The thrust of it was twofold

    1) Steve Sailer is the most influential writer, in my opinion, on the topic of the truth and science about immigration, IQ, genetics, and race reality. I feel that when the dust clears from this topic, that this will not be something he should risk his credibility on in comparing this situation in Rotherham to other situations. When you scratch the surface of this, the princesses involved are way way less than admirable characters and it is better to steer clear of this episode.

    2) Someone could get run over by all the white knight Captain Save-A-Ho men rushing in to protect the honor of all these blameless damsels in distress. And I ain't buying the hype.

    I am part of a different section of this Dark Enlightenment that focuses on women and one thing I have learned over there is that No One Ever Went Broke Underestimating the Morality of Women and Girls. The depravity, immorality, and attention whoring among women and girls has long passed critical mass and I am never shocked anymore at any thing women and girls do.

    I watch this video streaming site that shows normal entertainment, not porn, but if you click on just about anything then other tabs and sites pop up. And constantly I am barraged by some crap like the last one that just popped up, SlutRoulette. There was this video of this girl on a cam, in a bedroom, in underwear and a tank top and she is asking the camera if the viewer wants her to be naughty. The girl looked to be anywhere in age from 15 to 18 where it is implied that she is 18. The ad before that was for Single Moms and Married Women in my neighborhood that "just want to have sex with me".

    And I can go on and on. I used to be a member of the match site in Colombia and about 5 times I ran into girls that had profiles that said 18 (because that was the minimum age join the site) then at first contact they said they were 14 or 15. And they were all pushing for some sort of angle to fleece the men on the site. I traveled in Colombia a lot and I would see young girls, 13-15 standing on the side of roads late at night and I would ask the cab driver what those girls were doing there at 3 in the morning . And the driver would say "Son prepagos" (They're hookers). I was also part of an international site and let me you, English girls on that particular site were some of the most mercenary little twits you would ever encounter. Massively entitled.

    And the general trend I notice is that with the web, both female hypergamy, financial entitlement, and profit taking of female sexual capital have just jumped through the roof with expanded access coupled with anonymity in the internet. It doesn't take much of a leap of faith for me to think that some Council House girls living with some broke ass single mom, who probably acts like a slut herself, with no father around, would jump at the opportunity to take cash and prizes, get that spiffy iPhone with that neat little jeweled case, get those fake nails she wants, that designer purse, those clothes, especially if all she has to do to get is just be "fabulous" and be wanted and desired by some men. Especially when all the other girls are doing it. I don't necessarily buy in to the coercion that every one is assuming. That's the white knight in you talking to you. Captain SaveAHo nonsense.

    And when the world Trafficking is used, then my alarm definitely goes off because I know this is one of those terms used to trump up business for those bureaucrats that are hunting for funding for something or the other. Yeah, they passed a law that said all girlfriend had to say when busted for prostitution is that "she was trafficked" and she gets a get out of jail card. Yeah trafficking Yeah. I seen ads in Colombian classifieds offering $2000 a month to go to work in a "bar" in Panama. And those girls know exactly what that entails and they line up for the deal. They stay for the 3 months, come back to Colombia, get breast implants, then head right back knowing the ropes and make $8000 a month. Yet all the papers scream "Trafficking of Women to Panama". In Malta, the EU removed the visa power from the country and gave it to Denmark because of all the Visas extended to Russian and Ukranian girls, in the internet era where there are no secrets. Yet all the papers talked about was trafficking where all those men old men brought those innocent girls down there.

    Nobody is going to convince me these were some freaking girl scouts sitting around playing with their barbies or doing their homework when these mean old Paki men came along and "groomed" them, whatever the eff that means, against their will into being the little whores they became.

    This is question that has occupied us for like forever, the chicken or the egg syndrome of prostitution. I just finished reading William Sanger's book The History of Prostitution written in 1848. Sanger was the Prison Doctor at some island in New York that served as a women's jail where most of the inmates were prostitutes. The city of New York was pressing for some solution to an epidemic of prostitution coupled with an outbreak in venereal disease. Sanger was some sort of renaissance man with an education in antiquities, well spoken, and an excellent writer. He traces through widely known literature all the way back to Babylon, Greece Rome, Medieval Europe, all the way up the mid 1800s in New York citing the classics and other sources of history. Inevitably, all societies prosecuted the "procurer" far more than the hookers. Yet during times of high levels of prostitution Sanger noted the ridiculously high levels of immorality among women. And we over in the Woman Hatin' part of the Dark Enlightenment now exactly what was going on, high hypergamy and sluttish woman chasing alphas at the expense of the betas.

    So you all need to keep in mind that the folks who brought you this report are from the same cloth as those that reported this 20% rape rate among college girls using a sample from two schools yielded results of from 1% to 5% given the threshold of the definition of rape (as some where pretty loose criteria) then took the upper boundaries multiple it times 4 and voila, 1 in 5 girls where being Sexually Assaulted.

    So I gotz reason to be suspicious of any sort of thing like this that spits out some numbers screaming 1400 11 year old girls were raped and the police did nothing about it because the men were immigrants. Like, I said, I read the report. And just like Debryshire wrote in his essay on Time magazine's article on Ferguson. There are ways the "enlightened" fellow reads these sorts of things. When the word Tragedy is used in this context, then he knows exactly what that means.

    And I'm telling you there is some Feminist nonsense going on here that in the end, not just Paki will pay, but all men.

    I sympathize with the issues Sailer writes about and I am a daily reader. But my war is with Feminists and Women and Imma take the side of all men in that war. And in this case I am saying to all of you .... Not so fast.

    I watch this video streaming site…

    Link, please. Wait, on second thought, never mind. You point to the existence of banner ads for porn sites featuring “underage slutz!” (or whatever) as proof that sex-grooming is a scam? Talk about digging yourself in deeper! You should have quit while you were behind.

    Yeah, teenage hustlers from dysfunctional backgrounds are an ongoing problem. Civilized people still don’t allow groups of men to come in and make a pound or ten passing them around to one another, even if they leave a few on the nightstand that the girls can keep afterwards. In fact, there are strict laws against that kind of thing, and outside the Sharia-belt, we don’t make exceptions if the girls are kuffar, or if they were captured in battle, or if the abuser happens to fancy himself a prophet.

    And if those men happen to be a bunch of Pakistanis for whom the PC police (literally, the PC police) run defense, there’s going to be angry words about that, too. If that’s a problem for you, try getting your head out those supposedly “normal entertainment” streaming sites a little more often. I’m pretty sure part of your problem begins there, though you seem to have deeper issues that you should get help for.

  198. Mark Minter: I watch this video streaming site that shows normal entertainment, not porn, but if you click on just about anything then other tabs and sites pop up. And constantly I am barraged by some crap like the last one that just popped up, SlutRoulette.

    Uh, you do realize that ads are targeted based on your browsing habits, right? Google knows your dark secrets, Mark. And now, so do we.

    (Must’ve been those teeny-boppers you lent your laptop to in that dark alley, yeah, that’s it…)

  199. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Re: the feminists.

    The most interesting example these days of people acting against their self interest is the feminist/liberal white-woman/leftist-white woman’s love affair with Muhammad and Islam.

    I routinely run across a woman who proclaims that Muhammad was a prophet of peace. ???? He spread Islam at the point of a sword (besides all the other grizzly stuff he advocated and practiced).

    Just the other day, a woman made a comment on a NYT article about how Muhammad would have condemned the beheadings of the reporter. WTF???? Of course when I countered that in a reply, my comment was not accepted.

    I understand that a big driver for their love affair with the religion that treats them worst and a man who married a little girl is how enlightened and open minded this one-sided love affair makes liberal and leftists women feel.

    However, this one-sided love affair is also consistent with women’s dating practices too. Many a young man has been stumped as to why women constantly complain about men then pick a man who treats them poorly. Well, there is no bigger bad boy (when it comes to women) than Muhammad and Islam. I guess there lies the appeal.

  200. Anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @JamestheFin
    This is an important point. That while the Muslims did digest the same Greek Philosophy and Science that their Christian counterparts in the West did, it was only in the West that Western Civilization blossomed into what it became. And they embraced the cultural aspects of the Graeco-Roman world-literature, art, plays, music, etc. That of course, had a huge impact upon the Renaissance which embraced the culture of the Greeks & Romans and really jump-started the progress which we now enjoy.

    I'd also disagree with those that claim that there wasn't any real progress in the West prior to the Renaissance. The rise of universities in the West from Bologna to Paris to Oxford occurred prior to the Crusades or concurrently with them. Of course the people and ideas that sprang forth from this intellectual milieu included Scholasticism and St. Thomas of Aquinas, Duns Scotus, and William of Ockham to name a few. And it's no surprise that the great Gothic cathedrals sprang up at this time either, incorporating geometric principles from the Greeks.

    As for Muslim improvement upon the Greeks, it's not as impressive as one may think. There were many Christians who did much of the translating of the ancient Greek texts into Arabic like the fifth century priest Probus of Antioch, who introduced Aristotle to the Arabic-speaking world. Another Christian, Huneyn ibn-Ishaq (from Al-Hira, south of Baghdad, 809-873), translated many works by Aristotle, Galen, Plato and Hippocrates into Syriac. His son then translated them into Arabic. The Syrian Christian Yahya ibn ‘Adi (born in Tikrit, 893-974) also translated works of philosophy into Arabic, and wrote one of his own, The Reformation of Morals. His student, another Syriac Christian named Abu ‘Ali ‘Isa ibn Zur’a (943-1008), also translated Aristotle and others from Syriac into Arabic.

    The problem for the Muslims was that once they exhausted the material and intellectual wealth of the non-Muslim's living under them through institutionalized discrimination, draconian laws, and punitive taxes like the Jizya(just for the right to exist as non-Muslims) there was no longer anyone left to create wealth. This is one of many reasons why the Muslim world is a dysfunctional crap hole.

    It's rather quite amazing. Muslims turned what had been some of the most inventive areas of the Classical world(Don't get me started on what the Muslim did in India...) and turned them into the backwards shyte-holes which they remain to this day.

    It amaze me how christian trash like you distort history in order to give christians credits of things they never achieved and in the same time discredits muslims of theire achievements ….

    ” That of course, had a huge impact upon the Renaissance which embraced the culture of the Greeks & Romans and really jump-started the progress which we now enjoy.”

    go read a history book you dumb twat , the renniassance owes very little to the greeks and virtually nothing to the romans who invented nothing of their own , the renaissance started after chrsitians beginned to absorb and assimilate knowledges produced from the islamic world :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe
    the concept of Algebra , the scientific methods and the numbers you used today did not originate from the greeks but from the muslim world.

    “I’d also disagree with those that claim that there wasn’t any real progress in the West prior to the Renaissance.”

    there isn’t a single major invention or discovery Europeans made at that time so its still correct to assert that there was no european advancement at that time , and building universities is worth of nothing if there is no intellectual activity on them , which is the case of most of the universities you cited , as for the intellectuals you cite ,all of them were simply theologians and din’t study beyond religion.

    “As for Muslim improvement upon the Greeks, it’s not as impressive as one may think. There ”

    of course that is according to a christian apologist who can’t stomach the fact that the followers of his religion never contributed anything at that period of time.
    by the way , muslims didn’t made improvements upon the greeks , rather they were influeced by greek works and later they develloped their ows science , oh and the greeks borrowed most of what they know from the egytptians , babylonians and phoenicians.
    beside , musllims invented Algebra ,the scientific method , the field of crypto-analyse , chemistry and the numerals that you use today , what did your pathetic christians invent at those time ? nothing , there wasn’t a single mathematician , physycian , astonomer or a philosopher that europe pruduce at tham time since Europe was a backwater of civilization at those time
    and the reestof the garbage you wrote is a copy/paste from this garbage book :
    https://books.google.it/books?id=V4gUQZhRGKUC&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=%22Probus+of+Antioch%22&source=bl&ots=P3xgKUNCWx&sig=Jl7ZstMurlIhwSP7ApP23yn776M&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiV0JP8-9jcAhWCXsAKHS8nB2wQ6AEwAHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Probus%20of%20Antioch%22&f=false”

    “The problem for the Muslims was that once they exhausted the material and intellectual wealth of the non-Muslim’s living under them through institutionalized discrimination, draconian laws, and punitive taxes like the Jizya(just for the right to exist as non-Muslims) there was no longer anyone left to create wealth. ”

    Avicenna , Al khwarimiz ,Averoes , Alhazen , Alkindi were all muslims not christians , jews or whatever so you are ust spewing B.S
    you just showed that you are nothing but a subhuman liar and a piece of shit , what should i epect from christian trash since they are only good at lying …
    exausted ? shut the fuck up liying trash , there was no intellecutal and material wealth in the lands that was occupied by byzantins and the sassanids , it was the muslims who created this wealth themselves and this is proven by the fact that the majority of the scholars were Arab and persian muslims :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

    it amazes me how you have the audacity to say that muslims persecuted non-muslims through taxes , when at tham times christians have literraly LAUGHTERED all the pagans of their lands and went even as far to persecut the aothers christians who did not adhere to there same branch of their faith :
    Jacobite(Coptic) had been persecuted and mistreated by the Orthodox . Jacobite hated tyrannical Byzantine administrations. (according to Caetani vol 1v p 81 , Justinian is said to have had 200,000 Copts put to death in the city of Alexandria
    Wansleben : THE PRESENT STATE OF EGYPT ,p 11 (London 1678)

    “This is one of many reasons why the Muslim world is a dysfunctional crap hole.”
    the only crap hole is the one that subhumans like you came from .
    Turkey, Qatar ,Malaysia , Azrbaijan , kazahstan , indonesia and the gulf countries are better than half of the christian countries inculding most of the eastern european countries of this earth, in fact the only dysfunctial muslims countries are the one that have been the only dysfunctional muslims countries are the one that have been ruined by the barbarian christian west like Iraq ,Lybia and currently Syria

    “It’s rather quite amazing. Muslims turned what had been some of the most inventive areas of the Classical world(Don’t get me started on what the Muslim did in India…) and turned them into the backwards shyte-holes which they remain to this day.”

    what is amazing her is how christian trash like you rewrite history in order to clean the barbaric christians of their crimes and accuse muslims of the inverse off what they had done.
    muslims are the one who liberated the middle east from the parastic byzantines persians who were pillaging Egypt and mesopotamia respectively and after less than a century , those areas experienced a golden age whereas the pathetic christians were experiencing the dark ages since the previous land that they plundering no longer belonged to them.
    when India was ruled by muslims, it was the richest country on earth with a GDP of 20% however after the barbarian british colonized that country and left it , India’s GDP was less than 2%
    and the only shyt-hole is the one that yoy came from , it was the barbarica christian who colonized those religion during WW1 and carved thme according to their own interest , it was also those same barbaric christians who invaded Iraq ,Lybia and currently Syria , killed million of people there and ruined those country and stealed their resources so Go Fµck yourself.

  201. Anonymous[108] • Disclaimer says:
    @David R. Merridale
    Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced.

    True. The Muslim conquests reduced Christendom to a corridor stretching from the British Isles to Anatolia, 3000 miles long and 300-500 miles wide. The Frankish lands that would become the core of the West were far from Constantinople and lost their connection with the Greek side of Graeco-Roman culture.

    And the Second Dark Age of the 800s and 900s (worse than the Dark Age of the 400s and 500s, really) were caused as much by Muslim corsairs as by Magyars and Vikings. We hear a lot about the Crusader atrocities at the fall of Jerusalem, but not so much about the massacres at Genoa, Palermo, and Syracuse. Of course, those were Muslim massacres, so typically only the men were executed, while the women and children were taken as slaves, which is obviously preferable. If she played her cards right, an enterprising young lass might find herself in her master's bed! Then again, maybe she'd get prostituted out, as her choices were somewhat limited.

    There, brought the thread on topic again.

    Go fµck yourself with your lies.

    the so called dark ages started already before the rise of islam and stemed from the 5th century to the the 15 th century which means that for a period of 1000 years Europe was a backwater of civilization.
    there is no record of muslims massacre this is just lies made up by christians as usual however there a re records of christians massacre from historians :
    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gbb_heathens.htm
    quoting :
    The Christianisation of Iceland was much less bloody than usual, although it shows the technique. A Saxon missionary, Friedrich arrived in the tenth century but was forced to leave when his assistant Thorvaldur killed too many locals. In AD 1000 King Olav of Norway (Ólafur Tryggvason again) was possessed by one of his periodic bouts of Christian zeal. As an Icelandic historian, Jón Hjálmarsson, relates:

    King Ólafur’s first missionary to Iceland was Stefnir Thorgilsson, a native of Iceland, who started by attacking and breaking down heathen temples, and was promptly exiled. Next, the King sent a Flemish priest named Thangbrandur, who had reached Norway via England. He managed to baptise several of the noble Icelandic chieftains, but as he could not tolerate any opposition and killed several men who spoke against him, he too had to leave the country*.

    Further Christian missionaries so destabilised the country that Thorgeir, the lawspeaker, was asked to decide what should be done. A liberal and tolerant pagan himself, he decided that the best way to keep the peace was that Christianity should be adopted as the national religion, but that the people should be allowed to keep many of their traditional practices, including the right to worship in private whatever gods they chose. It seemed to be more than fair. Hjálmarsson says of the conversion:

    The introduction of Christianity in Iceland was a peaceful and almost unique historical event. It was quite different from the prolonged conflicts, warfare and bloodshed which customarily accompanied Christianization in most other countries. This peaceful settlement arose probably more for political than religious reasons.

    atrocities that continued even after the so called enlightment :
    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gh5_atrocities.htm

  202. Anonymous[108] • Disclaimer says:
    @Difference Maker
    So the Muslims introduced Aristotle to the mediaeval West.

    And produced none like him. Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced

    “And produced none like him.”
    Averroes , Alkindi ,Avicenna , Ibn khaldun , Alhazen ..ect All surpassed him in each fields and without them there would be no renaaisanse and your European continent would still be a backwater of civilization as it has always used to be .

    ” Furthermore, if not for the collapse of international trade following the Arab invasions Aristotle may never have needed to be reintroduced”

    there was intenational trade you dumb twat , the so called trade that you are talking about which was the trade between the eastern province and western provinces of the roman empire never broke up ,
    it was the dumb Europeans who were never intered to travel to the byzantines provinces and were only interested at plundering just like they have done in constantinople during the fourht crusades , anyway go fµck yourself Im tired of your stupidity and your ignorance

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