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Boeing CEO Pledges a 20 Percent Increase in Black Employees
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From the New York Post:

Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees

By Reuters August 28, 2020 | 2:31pm | Updated

Boeing is seeking to increase black US employees throughout the company by 20 percent and mandate benchmarks for hiring people of color, Chief Executive Dave Calhoun told employees in a memo on Friday reviewed by Reuters.

US corporations have become more responsive to complaints related to racial equality following a summer of sweeping anti-racism protests over the slaying of black people by police. …

“We understand we have work to do,” Calhoun said in the memo, which was released on the 57th anniversary of civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr’s “I Have a Dream” speech and included references to the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Wisconsin on Sunday.

Boeing declined to provide its current number of black employees or a timeline for the new target.

The planemaker separately has had to lay off thousands of workers as it grapples with the financial fallout from the COVID-19 pandemic and the 17-month-old grounding of the 737 MAX after two fatal crashes.

In the memo, Calhoun said the company would establish an internal Racial Justice think-tank to guide its policies.

Like the Soviet Union had political cadres to watch over everybody who actually knew what they were doing on the job.

On June 23, a manager at Boeing’s Everett factory found “racist symbols” at his work station, according to an email from Commercial Airplanes Chief Executive Stan Deal to employees seen by Reuters. The manager is black, a person familiar with the incident said.

The company launched an internal investigation and referred the matter to police, Deal said, calling the incident “disheartening and a stark reminder of how far our society has to go.”

Uhhhhh …

If Nike were to pledge to boost their employment of blacks by 20%, well … nobody cares about sneaker safety … But doesn’t Boeing make products that we risk our lives riding in?

Must we search out Embraer small airliners because at least Brazil doesn’t play that way?

In truth, the math isn’t that crazy, and they found a way to make the PR statement sound massive rather than marginal. Boeing isn’t going to make 20% of its workforce black. Say Boeing has 4% black employees now and boosts the percentage to 4.8%. You know and I know — although who else knows? — that their aren’t massive numbers of black aeronautical engineers unemployed due to Systemic Racism, so new black hires would be awfully marginal in the capabilities to contribute. But Boeing competes in mostly duopoly markets in which politics matters a lot, so adding 0.8% of the workforce to stand around and be photographed representing the New Diverse Boeing might seem cheap to the CEO.

iSteve commenter JimB points out:

You know and I know that unless the best engineering talent, white or whatever, swears allegiance to BLM, the black Human Resources department at Boeing won’t hire them. And that’s bad news, because the best aeronautical and electrical engineers are kind of truthful and kind of Aspergery and often politically conservative — and they like pointing out that they are smarter than you. So Boeing will lard up on feminized politically correct employees who won’t buck management when bad engineering decisions get made.

It’s like the first Space Shuttle commission hearings. It’s not that Richard Feynman single-handedly figured out by himself why the Challenger exploded by dunking an O-ring in a glass of ice water. The guys in short-sleeve shirts with pocket protectors knew it all along, but they figured the suits would cover it up. So they went through the list of commissioners and picked Feynman as the guy who could get their message across.

Good luck to aerospace engineers in the future if they don’t happen to have a Feynman handy to take their side.

 
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  1. No matter. Eventually the only people who will be permitted to or able to fly will be those who fly private. The rest will either be on lockdown or broke or both.

    • Agree: Cortes, Gidoutahere
  2. Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees

    By weight?

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    • Replies: @wren
    @Reg Cæsar

    I liked this opinion.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/

    Replies: @Romanian

    , @JimDandy
    @Reg Cæsar

    Exceptions were made:

    "To lure Boeing to move its corporate headquarters from Seattle to Chicago nearly two decades ago, the city and state showered the aerospace giant with a package of tax incentives that have cost taxpayers more than $60 million and are still partially ongoing."

    Replies: @Hibernian

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Reg Cæsar


    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.
     
    One rumor floating around Seattle at the time was that Phil Condit's mistress lived in Chicago.
    , @TWS
    @Reg Cæsar

    They moved to break the once strong connection between management and the community.

    They used to care about their workers and the larger community. That was nearly forty years ago. Not that the unions didn't strike for more money and the management tell them no. But they didn't bind the mouth of the kine and they genuinely understood they couldn't give the unions everything they wanted.

    Now there's no more feeling of connection to the workers or the community.

    , @cynthia curran
    @Reg Cæsar

    Well, they certainly didn't hire blacks or whites on the engineering of the Max 637. That was done on India because they only paid 10,000 a year versus 80,000 in the US.

    , @Russ
    @Reg Cæsar


    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.
     
    IIRC, Chicago is also the corporate home to American Airlines, so proximity to a major customer was cited back in 1996 by BA.

    Speaking of Snow White CHAZ/CHOP, one wonders how many work units must move from WA to SC to achieve this goal just through broader population demographics.

    Also ironic in that I'm told a broader round of voluntary layoff "opportunities" was unleashed at BA Friday.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    , @Excal
    @Reg Cæsar

    The following is basically rumour, hearsay, and innuendo, so take it for what it's worth.

    In 1997, Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas. In most mergers, one of the parties becomes dominant. In this case, McDonnell Douglas, which was a very management-driven company, quickly began running things at Boeing, which had been a very engineering-driven company.

    It is cliche, but true, that management often has trouble with engineering. The most important reason for this is that engineering is fundamentally an artistic discipline, like architecture; and most of the best engineers have an artistic temperament. They cannot be successfully managed by people who do not understand this.

    Unfortunately, most people do not understand this. They assume that engineers are like soldiers, or mechanics, or plumbers, or some combination of the above; but they cannot see these ugly, socially inept, annoying, often flaky people as artists. They do see them as childish, unreasonable, difficult, grossly overpaid, and fundamentally a liability to be minimised. Armed with this ignorance, professional managers with degrees from very fancy schools have destroyed business after business, setting on fire untold amounts of capital and even lives.

    And that's what's been going on at Boeing, or so I am told. An engineering-driven company merged with, and became managed by, a company of professional managers. The managers had hated the engineers at McDonnell Douglas, and they hated the engineers at Boeing even more. The move to Chicago was intended to keep marketing and upper management physically separated from the hated engineers, and to make it more difficult for the engineers to bother the important parts of the company.

    "There's a deal of ruin in a nation", said Adam Smith. But nations, and Boeings, can be ruined at last, with sustained effort.

    Replies: @Hibernian

  3. If it’s Boeing, I ain’t going.

    • LOL: bruce county
    • Replies: @mmack
    @Steve in Greensboro

    If it’s Boeing, don’t fuss,
    Switch over to Airbus

  4. This alleged Boing pledge will never happen. This is another case of you —dimwits lie to me and pressure me. Then I will lie you back to oblivion/ Means while I will say all kinds of PC Rubbish that supports you.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    @Clyde

    Unfortunately, I'm afraid the 20% pledge will be enforced. It's promulgation by gutless Boeing executives will be ruthlessly carried out by crazed HR harridans! The latter are both stupid and true believers!

    Replies: @bigdicknick

  5. Vague platitudes about diversity and intentions are one thing, but the CEO giving numerical racial goals ?

    I’m curious what the memo actually says. This sounds awfully close to racial quotas for hiring, which the Supreme Court has frowned upon.

    The first rule of implementing racial quotas (in the US) is that you don’t talk about racial quotas in public or on paper. You still implement them as part of your Affirmative Action plan, but you can’t mention it.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @vhrm

    At least they can still do math at Boeing.

    Replies: @fish, @Aardvark

    , @BenKenobi
    @vhrm


    which the Supreme Court has frowned upon
     
    Pfft, what have they done for us lately?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3rJ4WuEuWM
    , @Hannah Katz
    @vhrm

    Lucky for Boeing there is a surplus of black electrical engineers, mechanical engineers and industrial engineers looking for work. Most are from the Ivy League, MIT and Cal Tech. Or something...

  6. @vhrm
    Vague platitudes about diversity and intentions are one thing, but the CEO giving numerical racial goals ?

    I'm curious what the memo actually says. This sounds awfully close to racial quotas for hiring, which the Supreme Court has frowned upon.

    The first rule of implementing racial quotas (in the US) is that you don't talk about racial quotas in public or on paper. You still implement them as part of your Affirmative Action plan, but you can't mention it.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @BenKenobi, @Hannah Katz

    At least they can still do math at Boeing.

    • Replies: @fish
    @Buzz Mohawk


    At least they can still do math at Boeing.
     



    Soon “Maff” as well.
    , @Aardvark
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Maff...

  7. We should frigging force everyone who endorses all this crap to fly on a black-crewed, maintained, built, and designed airliner.

    …Let them cheat just enough so that the thing will reach a fatal altitude before crashing.

    …and remember. All the passengers have to board. I want them driven onto the ‘airplane’ with cattle prods if necessary.

    This has gone far enough. Time to start calling a spade a spade (pun very much intended).

    • Agree: Drapetomaniac
  8. You know and I know — although who else knows? — that their aren’t massive numbers of black aeronautical engineers unemployed due to Systemic Racism, so new black hires would be awfully marginal in the capabilities to contribute.

    You know and I know that unless the best engineering talent, white or whatever, swears allegiance to BLM, the black Human Resources department at Boeing won’t hire them. And that’s bad news, because the best aeronautical and electrical engineers are kind of truthful and kind of Aspergery and often politically conservative — and they like pointing out that they are smarter than you. So Boeing will lard up on feminized politically correct employees who won’t buck management when bad engineering decisions get made.

    • Agree: Bubba, Drapetomaniac
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @JimB

    A similar feat of social engineering is occurring at Sandia National Laboratories.

  9. Are they going to increase the number of plane crashes by 20 percent too?

    • LOL: Mr McKenna
  10. Now afraid to fly… thanks

    • Replies: @Simon Tugmutton
    @Anonymousse

    Best to live in a bunker as well.

  11. Does that mean less dependence on immigrants?

    • Replies: @duncsbaby
    @Anonymous

    Plenty of African immigrants entering the nation. I see 'em arriving in Fargo on a daily basis. Daily.

    , @Paleo Liberal
    @Anonymous

    We can only hope.

    Or it may mean the extra 0.8% will be black immigrants. Could be some really smart Igbo engineers out there.

    , @EdwardM
    @Anonymous

    No, I think it means insourcing janitorial services.

  12. They’ve been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @t


    They’ve been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.
     
    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?

    Replies: @Hhsiii, @The Alarmist

    , @Colin Wright
    @t

    'They’ve been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.'

    That may be why they made the pledge. If it's going to happen of itself, why not score some points for it?

  13. @Reg Cæsar

    Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees
     
    By weight?

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    Replies: @wren, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon, @TWS, @cynthia curran, @Russ, @Excal

    • Replies: @Romanian
    @wren

    I see no one here posted this older gem, from Asia hawk and Forbes columnist Eamonn Fingleton.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/boeing-goes-to-pieces/


    The 787 story began more than a decade ago when, in the manner of a man undergoing a mid-life crisis, Boeing suddenly embraced a New Age redefinition of itself: it aspired to be primarily a “systems integrator,” not a manufacturer. According to one online dictionary, the term systems integrator connotes “an individual or company that specializes in building complete computer systems by putting together components from different vendors.” As the commentator Mark Tatge has pointed out, the term suggests a largely service-oriented role similar to that of Dell Computer in the PC industry. (Dell confines itself to the design and marketing of products assembled in East Asia from components supplied under contract by countless independent manufacturers.)

    Wearying of trying to stay ahead of Airbus, already then in the passing lane, Boeing would henceforth delegate many of its most technologically challenging manufacturing tasks to a consortium of three Japanese “Heavies”: Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, and Fuji Heavy Industries. These rank first among equals as Boeing’s so-called Tier 1 suppliers and have been the recipients of much of Boeing’s most advanced know-how.
    .............
    Dick Nolan, an emeritus professor of Harvard Business School, notes that Boeing’s traditional policy had been to use foreign suppliers merely for what’s called “build-to-print”: they supplied components and subcomponents made to Boeing’s detailed specifications, an arrangement that enabled Boeing to keep to itself much if not all of its serious know-how.

    Even before Boeing redefined itself as a systems integrator, keen observers had noticed a weakening in its resolve to resist Japanese pressure for technology transfers. As recorded by the British author Karl Sabbagh, by the early 1990s Boeing’s willingness to reveal closely held manufacturing secrets to the Japanese became so notorious that Boeing employees vulgarly referred to it as the “open kimono” policy.

    Today, not the least surprising thing about the Dreamliner’s work-share arrangements is that the foreign-made sections arrive in Boeing’s final assembly plant in Seattle not only fully “stuffed” with systems and sub-components—a radical departure from previous arrangements—but already certified and tested. Certification and testing had previously been considered core functions that should never be delegated to foreign partners. In a Harvard Business Review blog, Nolan acerbically commented, “Boeing effectively gave Tier 1 suppliers a large part of its proprietary manual, ‘How to Build a Commercial Airplane,’ a book that its aeronautical engineers have been writing over the last 50 years.”
    ..................
    In outsourcing so much of the Dreamliner, Boeing has flouted the opinion of its own top engineers. The company received a particularly well-argued caution at an in-house conference back in 2001. One of Boeing’s senior engineers, John Hart-Smith, delivered a paper on the dangers of excessive reliance on outside partners. Referring to the American aerospace industry’s ever increasing outsourcing, Hart-Smith asked, “Is it really all that difficult to comprehend that, along with the work involved, the revenue and profit associated with it have also been outsourced?” He added: “One must be able to contribute in some way to products one sells to avoid becoming merely a retailer of other people’s products.”

    Hart-Smith’s views were probably shaped by the fact that he had previously worked for McDonnell Douglas, a once brilliant company that flamed out after decades of increasing reliance on foreign partners. It eventually succumbed to a merger with Boeing in 1997. Hart-Smith had joined McDonnell Douglas at the height of its success in the 1960s, when in many ways it still overshadowed Boeing. He subsequently watched its commercial aircraft business outsource itself to death. A key problem was that designers became so out of touch that they no longer understood basic manufacturing realities.
    ..................
    In discussions of the unintended consequences of globalism, the transfer abroad of valuable production technology is the elephant in the room. It is consistently ignored in all standard theoretical accounts of free trade. In an era when information can move around the world at light speed, this is an oversight of epochal importance. Almost everyone assumes that no matter how fast American industrial know-how leaks abroad, an abundance of new production methods and new industries will keep bubbling up to provide additional sources of prosperity. Not only do people not stop to consider whether this assumption is valid, they don’t even realize they are making an assumption. Web issue image

    Many of America’s most sophisticated competitors do not run their trade policy on a free-market basis, argues Ralph Gomory. By intelligent use of trade barriers, among other things, they can hope to finagle advanced production technologies out of the United States. Employers in such nations are often under considerable pressure—political, economic, and societal—to keep their own most advanced production technologies at home and well away from the risk of theft by foreign rivals.
     
  14. Umm, Isn’t it illegal to discriminate by race in hiring? How are the companies going to meet these commitments without violating the law?

    • LOL: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Bell

    https://youtu.be/lhckuhUxcgA

    Here’s some light reading...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group

  15. Boeing has thousands of suppliers domestically and around the world that do a lot of the engineering and manufacturing. And most of these blacks will probably be hired for back office administrative type jobs, rather than critical engineering work.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    @Anonymous


    most of these blacks will probably be hired for back office administrative type jobs
     
    Many corporations have tried that little trick, and then are shocked when the payroll gets all messed up, the warehouses are mysteriously emptied in the dead of night, and the payables never seem to get paid on time and receivables never seem to get received on time...

    Boeing puts....just do it....

    Replies: @bomag

  16. A friend’s fiance completed air traffic controller school just as the Obama administration changed the hiring rules.

    He had to give up on that dream after spending a lot of money to do the courses.

    I haven’t heard of any crashes due to worse air traffic controllers yet, though.

    Perhaps computers make their job more fool proof now.

    https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/06/27/the-disastrous-initiative-to-hire-air-traffic-controllers-based-on-diversity-not-talent/

    • Replies: @CBTerry
    @wren

    I have not either, although there are well-documented near misses (I've listened on youtube to a black air-traffic controller nearly lead a jet into mountains and another give clearance to take off while the runway was obstructed by cross traffic).
    But I suspect that problems would first present in general aviation, which does not get much press coverage.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  17. I think it’s conceivable that the social dynamics by which people land at the top of corporate hierarchies tend to throw up men inclined to be fad-chasers.

    • Replies: @pirelli
    @Art Deco

    Certainly conceivable. In Steve’s memorable formulation (or perhaps memorable only to me), the people who succeed in any competitive field tend to be “good looking, conformist go-getters.”

    Contrarians (or “free thinkers” if you wanna be annoying about it) are seen by most people as petty and impractical, even faintly ridiculous. Conformist types get the job done, or more precisely, they leave everyone feeling assured that the job has been done competently and in accordance with established protocols, and then they move on to the next position or to the next company before any serious errors can be discovered.

  18. @Reg Cæsar

    Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees
     
    By weight?

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    Replies: @wren, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon, @TWS, @cynthia curran, @Russ, @Excal

    Exceptions were made:

    “To lure Boeing to move its corporate headquarters from Seattle to Chicago nearly two decades ago, the city and state showered the aerospace giant with a package of tax incentives that have cost taxpayers more than $60 million and are still partially ongoing.”

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @JimDandy

    The reason given by Boeing was to have a more diverse workforce, compared to Seattle which was then very heavily white. Why not St. Louis, home of the Mc Donnell fighter plane operations? Or DC, near where the procurement decisions are made? Those places have their own urban problems, but also advantages, for Boeing, which Chicago does not have. The HQ, I believe, is a skeleton operation without any other Boeing operations in the area that I know of. It had little impact on either Chicgo's economy or Boeing's diversity. The biggest impact to their diversity has almost certainly been the SC operations near Charleston.

    Replies: @David Davenport

  19. I’m not sure how this math would work, as Boeing already laid off 16,000 employees this year and plans on more layoffs and buyouts as COVID and the MAX debacle have taken a toll on the company.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/business/boeing-more-job-cuts/index.html

    So does the CEO mean a 20 percent increase on the existing, and presumably shrinking, number of Black employees? Will Boeing hire more Blacks while simultaneously eliminating thousands of other jobs? It doesn’t really make sense. I guess that’s why he declined to give a timeline.

    In any event, Boeing employs over 100,000 people. How many are actually engineers, versus welders, salesmen, IT techs, secretaries, etc. etc.?

    • Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder
    @Giant Duck

    Why on earth are you capitalizing the "b" word now?



    [ I mean "boeing" of course. ]

    , @bomag
    @Giant Duck

    Maybe pledging to hire more blacks is akin to my pledging to finally getting around to reading Cavilieri's Geometry of the Infinitesimal.

  20. What a brilliant plan, after they killed hundreds and lost billions by outsourcing the 737 MAX software to Subcontinentals for $9 an hour:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers

    “Diversity i̶s̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶a̶t̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶r̶e̶n̶g̶t̶h̶ makes our planes crash.”

    • Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder
    @Dr. X

    Having planes stay up in the air is a prime example of white supremacy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Skylark Thibedeau

    , @epebble
    @Dr. X

    737 Max disasters were design engineering failure, not software.

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-737-max-disaster-looks-to-a-software-developer

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Dr. X

    Broke: 737 MAX

    Woke: 737 KANG

    Broke: MCAS

    Woke: McASS

    Broke: turbofan

    Woke: twerkofan

  21. If the training at Sandia nuclear labs is any indication, we may have planes falling from The sky with greater frequency, since hard work and rational thought and even punctuality are the White Devil’s ideas.

    But as Steve and other commenters are pointing out the bait and switch and overlay of verbose Critical Race nonsense on all HR training are more likely to be the results. We are increasingly living in a world where absurdity and cognitive dissonance are at a fever pitch

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @John Milton’s Ghost

    "In the world of ETHNOMATHEMATICS, 2+2=oppression and ‘achievement’ is a white supremacist construct"

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/494718-math-racist-decolonialize-oppression-fail/

  22. Will a increase in black bodies at Boeing make up for the black bodies they killed in the 737MAX crashes?

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @George Taylor

    It was the black bodies flying that Ethiopian 737 Max that killed tbose black bodies in the back. Make no mistake.

    Replies: @mikeInThe716, @vhrm

  23. @vhrm
    Vague platitudes about diversity and intentions are one thing, but the CEO giving numerical racial goals ?

    I'm curious what the memo actually says. This sounds awfully close to racial quotas for hiring, which the Supreme Court has frowned upon.

    The first rule of implementing racial quotas (in the US) is that you don't talk about racial quotas in public or on paper. You still implement them as part of your Affirmative Action plan, but you can't mention it.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @BenKenobi, @Hannah Katz

    which the Supreme Court has frowned upon

    Pfft, what have they done for us lately?

  24. @Buzz Mohawk
    @vhrm

    At least they can still do math at Boeing.

    Replies: @fish, @Aardvark

    At least they can still do math at Boeing.

    Soon “Maff” as well.

  25. Insourcing their janitorial staff and hiring black instead of Hispanic doesn’t bother me terribly.

    Displacing competent workers on the assembly line with affirmative action hires is worrisome. I’ve long wondered how much of the Big Three’s quality control problems in the 1970s were due to their lacking the technology and methods to deal with the incompetence and indolence of their affirmative action hires on the assembly line.

    Non-merit hiring on the engineering side would be disastrous. Maybe hire some of the more polished candidates into Sales? Might or might not work out for the shareholders but keeps the flying public out of direct danger.

    • Agree: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Ben Kurtz

    "disastrous"

    The black work ethic is underrated. So was mine until I became mesmerized by the Muzak cult on You Tube. The enchanting affect of the post war easy listening/beautiful music genre is also underrated. Created to soothe the jangled nerves of combat veterans medicating their PTSD with oceans of booze.

    , @mmack
    @Ben Kurtz

    A few months back I posted a reply to a poster about the US auto industry’s troubles in the 1970s by citing an interview in Studs Terkel’s book Working. Studs interviews Gary Bryner, a UAW Local President at the Lordstown, OH plant. At the time of the book (early 1970s) Lordstown was building the Chevrolet Vega. The Vega was a disaster for GM, an even bigger disaster than the Chevrolet Corvair. GM cut corners on the car (Example: to save $8/car, GM left out steel cylinder liners for the Vega’s all aluminum engine block, gambling that the additives to the aluminum would harden the cylinder walls. Pro tip, it didn’t and Vega engines burned oil like crazy). To make volume GM ramped up production to 100 units an hour at Lordstown. This article: https://qz.com/1510405/gms-layoffs-can-be-traced-to-its-quest-to-turn-people-into-machines/
    gives a good insight (albeit very leftist) into the turmoil at Lordstown. And yes, GM brought in technology (robots for assembly work, computer monitoring of assembly steps and work) to try to control the output. But you had a perfect storm of:

    - Clueless Board Level management that really didn’t want to build small cars (“Small cars mean small profits”, a Detroit mantra) but were forced into it.
    - Middle management and Engineering that were focused on numbers (cost per unit and units built/sold) and not on the quality of the product
    - And left ignored / unsaid in the linked article but noted in Working, a militant and resentful workforce of hippies, vets, and “Diversity is Beautiful, Baby!” line workers. While they had legitimate grievances on the rate of cars being demanded, left unsaid was their attitude after the 1972 strike at Lordstown was settled and the rate of cars per hour was reduced. And the Japanese ate GM’s lunch.

    I fear Boeing is going down the same road, with the exception that Uncle Sammy needs Boeing built aircraft and spacecraft for the foreseeable future.

    Replies: @black sea

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Ben Kurtz

    If I never flew again, it would be too soon. I like a lot of things about the modern world, but flying is the most dehuman thing out there.

  26. Meaningless platitude from a company that won’t exist in five years.

  27. didn’t Boeing just have a disastrous year due to hiring too many Indians?

    of course, increasing their african employees 20% from 10 janitors to 12 janitors isn’t going to affect them much.

  28. Nike pledging to boost their employment of blacks by 20% is OK, because who cares about sneaker safety?

    The guy on the New Orleans Pelicans who blew out his knee because his sneaker fell apart mid-game while playing for Duke.

  29. The Boeing facility in Washington is in Snohomish County. Black population is 2 or 3 percent. Guess they have to move to the Carolinas. But wait, raising the percent of black employees by whatever percent. .. 2 percent times 100% is 4% but nevermind.

  30. @JimB

    You know and I know — although who else knows? — that their aren’t massive numbers of black aeronautical engineers unemployed due to Systemic Racism, so new black hires would be awfully marginal in the capabilities to contribute.
     
    You know and I know that unless the best engineering talent, white or whatever, swears allegiance to BLM, the black Human Resources department at Boeing won’t hire them. And that’s bad news, because the best aeronautical and electrical engineers are kind of truthful and kind of Aspergery and often politically conservative — and they like pointing out that they are smarter than you. So Boeing will lard up on feminized politically correct employees who won’t buck management when bad engineering decisions get made.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    A similar feat of social engineering is occurring at Sandia National Laboratories.

  31. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    My guess will be that Boeing hires a whole bunch of Black Studies grads to newly enlarged HR departments, pays them handsomely to do whatever Black Studies grads do(hector the engineers biannually), use them for the occasional PR photos/videos, and that will be it. So Boeing planes may become more expensive(probably not as much of an issue for a company as politically connected as Boeing as it would be for a smaller company) but they probably won’t be more dangerous.

    The sad thing is that Airbus probably won’t use this to gain an advantage. They’ll do the exact same thing(but worse) so that they can claim they’ve won a race to the bottom.

  32. [1] Some crucial information is missing from the New York Post article: (a) The company-wide percentage of Black employees before and after this change is not stated, even as a goal. (b) The number and kind of “racist symbols” found by a Black manager at Boeing’s Everett factory are not identified. What were they? Garage-door pull-loops?
    [2] Stock tip: Short companies whose top executives are on a melanin-worship jag.

    • Agree: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)


    Stock tip: Short companies whose top executives are on a melanin-worship jag.
     
    So, you're saying short the entire S&P500? Done, and done!
  33. I remember waking up around noon to find out the space shuttle had blown up when I was in college. I was an English major, but when I heard how cold it was that morning in Florida, I thought that’s unusual, I bet that had something to do with it. Something shrunk. Weird how obvious that was.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Hhsiii


    Florida, I thought that’s unusual, I bet that had something to do with it. Something shrunk. Weird how obvious that was.
     
    No. The failure was caused by O-rings that became less elastic at low temperatures. During lift off the solid rocket boosters flexed and hot gases escaped past the deformed O-rings. Instead of Jello they were more like Silly Putty.

    Replies: @hhsiii

  34. Sounds as if Boeing’s CEO is trying to deliver to Boeing the coup de grâce. The company has already been beset by quality control issues, and now, instead of focusing on simply trying to return to developing a quality product, their new CEO will expend time, expense and energy on side issues in a way more likely than not to accelerate the company’s decline. (Someone needs to find out if he isn’t secretly working for Airbus.)

    Note to self: For safety’s sake, in future avoid flying on planes manufactured by Boeing.

  35. @Ben Kurtz
    Insourcing their janitorial staff and hiring black instead of Hispanic doesn't bother me terribly.

    Displacing competent workers on the assembly line with affirmative action hires is worrisome. I've long wondered how much of the Big Three's quality control problems in the 1970s were due to their lacking the technology and methods to deal with the incompetence and indolence of their affirmative action hires on the assembly line.

    Non-merit hiring on the engineering side would be disastrous. Maybe hire some of the more polished candidates into Sales? Might or might not work out for the shareholders but keeps the flying public out of direct danger.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @mmack, @Jim Don Bob

    “disastrous”

    The black work ethic is underrated. So was mine until I became mesmerized by the Muzak cult on You Tube. The enchanting affect of the post war easy listening/beautiful music genre is also underrated. Created to soothe the jangled nerves of combat veterans medicating their PTSD with oceans of booze.

  36. when I saw that 737max crashed my first thought was “that company needs more blacks!”

  37. Short Boeing. Long Comac.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @trelane


    Short Boeing. Long Comac.
     
    Only in the very, very long run.

    Without going book length, the detribalizing (marry the girl next door) of white Europeans under Christianity created a high trust, high empathy people. This capability of whites to do "trust at scale" is what enabled Europeans to create nation state solidarity which with European science/tech allowed them to go out, colonize and dominate the world.

    The Japanese apparently developed a high trust at scale culture through some other means (not involving Christianity or high empathy). And I'd have little issue flying a Japanese designed/built airliner.

    But the Chinese simply don't have it. They are smart. But while a lot of them are individually first rate people ... as society they are low trust. It's more like dealing with a billion man middle man minority--everyone just trying to get over on you.

    There are two issues:

    1) Fraud, corruption.
    Not every Chinese, but enough, will try and cheat. You'll start building planes and then find out your last years worth of planes may or may not have bolts that don't meet the spec because the supplier decided to cheat to make himself an extra $10,000 bucks. Again, low trust, middle-man-minority get-over mentality.

    2) Confucianism / "Tall peg is hammered down"ism.
    There's a deep strain of know-your-placeism, deference to your proper superiors. This has its appropriate place, but to build something big and complex you also need people willing to squawk, call bullshit, jump up and down when things are off track. Sticking one's neck out, standing on principle, a sense of "right thing to do" is not something Chinese are prone to do.

    Debacles like launching the shuttle when it was clearly too cold for it's O-rings because the big-shots wanted it, or like the 737MAX-MACS kludge/crashes are precisely the sort of disasters Chinese aerospace will be prone to.

    ~~

    Long run, with minoritarianism, immigrationism ruling the West, there's no question that the West's trendline--including for its technology companies--is negative.

    But despite the Chinese having (probably) a higher spatial IQ than whites, Chinese cultural traits are ill suited to ferreting out and fixing problems and bad designs/decisions. So they have a long ways--requiring some cultural fixes--to go.

    Replies: @anecdeedy

  38. @t
    They've been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Colin Wright

    They’ve been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.

    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?

    • LOL: Bubba, The Alarmist
    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    @Reg Cæsar

    Yes. The cooks, waiters and dishwashers at the Tip Top Inn in Pawleys Island where we stayed when I was a kid. Destroyed in Hurricane Hugo. Also the staff at the K&W. The maids. Etc.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @The Alarmist
    @Reg Cæsar


    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?
     
    So, you’re not buying that whole slavery legend?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  39. Anonymous[107] • Disclaimer says:

    “Must we search out Embraer small airliners because at least Brazil doesn’t play that way?”

    I don’t want to add fuel to the fire, but when I visited Embraer back in the 1990’s when I was working at a firm that sold some of the electronic components used in the cockpit, the head engineer that cattered to me and showed me around was a white man with red hair and grey eyes. Literally. And yes, he was 100% Brazilian. The other engineers looked either 100% white or what we call whitish. I mean the person that is at least 90% European and you need to stare hard at them to detect the non-white features.

    And you are right that they don’t play those games there. It is an extreme meritocracy. Because for a Third World country with a lot to prove, a company like that is an issue of national pride. The people there are the top 0.01% of technical and scientific capacity of the country. 99% of engineers with masters degrees would get turned down if they tried to apply for Embraer because they are simply not good enough. The selection process is beyond ruthless. Getting to work for one of these elite national companies is a matter of family pride. Imagine how an American feels like when their kid gets into Harvard, and then multiply by 100 X. Their technical capabilities are so high that they even started working on several protoypes of plane engines and made them work, but couldn’t compete with the economy of scale of Rolls Royce and GE so gave up.

    That is based on what my Brazilian friends told me, and it is interesting that, to them, it is not only about profits but national pride. Point is, an Embraer plane crashing makes not only the company look bad and the shareholders lose money; it makes the COUNTRY look bad and they can’t have that. The head engineer that showed me around, for instance, had a post-grad in aeronautic engineering from ITA, their hardest engineering school, and degrees in both physics and math. I know because I asked. Those people are competent.

    • Thanks: epebble, Alden
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    @Anonymous

    So, how long until Brazil starts worrying about becoming "the US of the South"?

    Replies: @Anonymous

  40. There were some “racial” symbols found-where a Black manager worked. You don’t suppose he was either an asshole,or wanted a raise?

    These bozos can’t build an airplane that stays in the sky,but now they’re going to be BLM? Just shut up,boys,and fix the planes,OK?

  41. Airbus, here I come.

  42. @Anonymous
    Does that mean less dependence on immigrants?

    Replies: @duncsbaby, @Paleo Liberal, @EdwardM

    Plenty of African immigrants entering the nation. I see ’em arriving in Fargo on a daily basis. Daily.

  43. @Steve in Greensboro
    If it's Boeing, I ain't going.

    Replies: @mmack

    If it’s Boeing, don’t fuss,
    Switch over to Airbus

  44. Well blacks are capable of putting a round ball thru a large hoop. It can’t be that difficult to build a massive airliner. What could go wrong? What can possibly go horribly wrong?
    Buckle up folks were are about to experience extreme turbulence.

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @bruce county

    "Excuse me, stewardess. I speak jive."

  45. @Reg Cæsar
    @t


    They’ve been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.
     
    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?

    Replies: @Hhsiii, @The Alarmist

    Yes. The cooks, waiters and dishwashers at the Tip Top Inn in Pawleys Island where we stayed when I was a kid. Destroyed in Hurricane Hugo. Also the staff at the K&W. The maids. Etc.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Hhsiii



    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?
     
    Yes. The cooks, waiters and dishwashers at the Tip Top Inn in Pawleys Island where we stayed when I was a kid.
     
    Was that the place the Rev'm Jackson added his special proprietary seasonings to the entrées? You couldn't pay me to eat there.

    Replies: @Hhsiii

  46. @Clyde
    This alleged Boing pledge will never happen. This is another case of you ---dimwits lie to me and pressure me. Then I will lie you back to oblivion/ Means while I will say all kinds of PC Rubbish that supports you.

    Replies: @Dan Hayes

    Unfortunately, I’m afraid the 20% pledge will be enforced. It’s promulgation by gutless Boeing executives will be ruthlessly carried out by crazed HR harridans! The latter are both stupid and true believers!

    • Replies: @bigdicknick
    @Dan Hayes

    exactly. and why does some executive at Boeing car anyway? It doesn't impact him at all. He is giving away some other guys job, not his own. That's what our elites are: generous with the little guy's stuff.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad, @Known Fact, @Drapetomaniac

  47. This is just political cover for their impending move out of Washington state. Traditional union democrat voters are about to get shafted in WA. Maybe the racial justice angle will make them feel better about it (sarc.).

    These moronic white democrats in the PAC. NW are going to get it good and hard. I might have felt sorry for the overpaid primadonnas if they’d bothered to push back against the Seattle commies, but they made their bed.

  48. This is great news for China’s budding aircraft industry.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    @International Jew


    This is great news for China’s budding aircraft industry.
     
    China has many wonderful achievements, commercial aerospace (or even military one) is not one of them. Hence CR-929, while COMAC-919 is not a competitive aircraft and by a long shot.

    Replies: @gmachine1729

    , @David Davenport
    @International Jew

    This is great news for China’s budding aircraft industry.

    We'll all feel really healthy and safe flying in a Chinese airliner!

  49. @Anonymous
    Does that mean less dependence on immigrants?

    Replies: @duncsbaby, @Paleo Liberal, @EdwardM

    We can only hope.

    Or it may mean the extra 0.8% will be black immigrants. Could be some really smart Igbo engineers out there.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  50. At my employer – which competes with Boeing in several areas – HR doesn’t have the final say on hiring of engineers; they don’t even get a final say in resume screening.

    And the engineering side of the 737 Max fiasco is a lot more subtle than most people think – long story short, Boeing ended up crafting a system that, although crappy, was perfectly safe – in the hands of reasonably skilled pilots, such as are found in the US and most of Europe – but was a death trap to the significant numbers of lousy pilots in the Third World. But Boeing management was aiming the 737 Max squarely at those countries and their airlines with some pretty crappy pilots, with predictable results to anybody who knew the whole story. A classic case of management hiding the real requirements forthe design.

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @cthulhu

    Lockheed's F-104 was pretty safe for the top USAF pilots to fly, but then Lockheed bribed the West German defense minister $10 million to buy a lot of F-104s for the newly reconstituted West German air force (which had lost all its veteran pilots in the War and then was out of business from 1945-55).

    That didn't work out well.

    Replies: @anon, @JoetheHun

    , @vhrm
    @cthulhu


    And the engineering side of the 737 Max fiasco is a lot more subtle than most people think – long story short, Boeing ended up crafting a system that, although crappy, was perfectly safe – in the hands of reasonably skilled pilots, such as are found in the US and most of Europe – but was a death trap to the significant numbers of lousy pilots in the Third World. But Boeing management was aiming the 737 Max squarely at those countries and their airlines with some pretty crappy pilots, with predictable results to anybody who knew the whole story. A classic case of management hiding the real requirements forthe design.
     
    I don't think that's the case in _this_ case. Yes, a pilot should be able to deal with this as a "runaway trim" situation but in practice it was apparently pretty darned hard to recover in some cases.

    Also there's no excuse for this thing being able to runaway based on a single bad AoA sensor.

    An engineering design subtlety that puts this in classic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 territory is that the original design of MCAS only had 0.6 deg of trim authority and 2 sensors (AoA and g-force). Based on some analysis they got rid of the g-force.

    Later they increased the 0.6 deg total deflection to 2.5deg PER ACTIVATION on a system with a max range of 4.7 deg. (https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2019/06/27/the-inside-story-of-mcas-how-boeings-737-max-system-gained-power-and-lost-safeguards/ )

    AND even though it did such unintuitive things like:


    For example, there is a cutout switch in the control column so that when a pilot pulls or pushes in the opposite direction to a runaway stabilizer, it cuts electric power to the stabilizer. When MCAS is active, this cutout switch doesn't work, which could surprise a pilot who didn't know about the system.
     
    Boeing got the FAA to agree that the system didn't need to be documented or trained for, or mentioned in transitional training from the 737 to the MAX.

    So... while some places definitely have problems with undertrained (and even fraudulently certificated pilots) in this case the MCAS feature as shipped was crap.

    Even Capt. Sully said it was just luck that it didn't happen in the US. (https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/734248714/pilots-criticize-boeing-saying-737-max-should-never-have-been-approved )

    Replies: @BenKenobi

    , @usNthem
    @cthulhu

    Just like the jogger criminality problem here which cannot be noticed or discussed - no one could point out the pilots & crew were third world. No 737 Max aircraft went down here or in Europe. If BA was targeting shithole countries with it, they’re paying the price and will probably continue to do so, at least until they hire a bunch more blacks - then they’ll really take off, so to speak.

  51. @Dan Hayes
    @Clyde

    Unfortunately, I'm afraid the 20% pledge will be enforced. It's promulgation by gutless Boeing executives will be ruthlessly carried out by crazed HR harridans! The latter are both stupid and true believers!

    Replies: @bigdicknick

    exactly. and why does some executive at Boeing car anyway? It doesn’t impact him at all. He is giving away some other guys job, not his own. That’s what our elites are: generous with the little guy’s stuff.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @bigdicknick

    You, my friend, have touched on a real problem.

    Replies: @bigdicknick

    , @Almost Missouri
    @bigdicknick

    Boomer virtue.

    , @AnotherDad
    @bigdicknick


    That’s what our elites are: generous with the little guy’s stuff.
     
    bdn--Nice snappy line. That's the crux of it.

    Elites always want to be elite and have their stuff. But the difference is what we have now is a traitorous disloyal elite--disconnected from and contemptuous of the American people, always working to sell them out.
    , @Known Fact
    @bigdicknick

    Much like that pro-looter person is just fine with other people taking your stuff

    , @Drapetomaniac
    @bigdicknick

    "That’s what our elites are: generous with the little guy’s stuff."

    What little guys stuff? The alpha-males and rulers have always been the owners.

    You don't even own your own life.

  52. Short-term this could be easily accomplished without any loss in productivity by firing a few HR and other non-productive management leeches and replacing them with properly colored dead weight. Long-term that is a losing strategy because a majority black HR/leech class spells even more trouble, not that my “logical strategy” will ever be adopted by Boeing.

    Boeing is a dysfunctional company, has been for a while already so screw them. Their older planes are still relatively safe, but yeah I will be actively looking for Airbus flights from now on, just in case. Oh, and Airbus already had a better safety record than Boeing, even before the MAX design flaw. Nike makes gaudy, low-quality clothes and overpriced athletic shoes, so Nike is easy to avoid. But in today’s world what is left for a conservative consumer, a diet of Goya beans and Yuengling ?

  53. This unfortunately is the result of black racial supremacy. black people are just BETTER, and I am not being sarcastic, at things that the West values: keeping it real, pimping, fighting with cops, busting caps, stealing stuff, and sucker punch knockouts of 95 year old women. THAT is what the West, highly feminized and homosexual, values.

    Stuff like hard work, intelligence, duty, conscience, fear of failing, etc. mean nothing. Less than nothing, male intelligence alone is massive turnoff to women and always has been. Even or especially for White women.

    An average hood rat like Jacob Blake has what, six kids. The average White male engineer at Boeing or Sandia National Laboratories has … none. Maybe a lifetime membership at some pr0n site. That right there tells you what is valued.

    I think it is only a short step to a China style Uighur series of camps for White men. Work for Apple or Nike makes free.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Whiskey

    'An average hood rat like Jacob Blake has what, six kids. The average White male engineer at Boeing or Sandia National Laboratories has …'

    But I wouldn't sleep with any of the women Blake did, and I wouldn't want the resulting progeny.

    You might as well tell me about the greater fecundity of the brown rat.

    , @Negrolphin Pool
    @Whiskey

    For white men of Italian, Irish and, controversially, Jewish background, ruthless gangsterism does come somewhat naturally.

    In the film "American Gangster", there is a ridiculous scene where an obvious Jew plays a goyishe golem badcop who tears into Anglo-Saxon poster boy Russel Crowe, who is himself playing a Jew.

    He says something like, "Joggers have never achieved in 100 years what the Italian mafia has in the last 3."

    He's not wrong.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna

  54. Had the government, launch control bureaucrats decided to scrub the launch (again), in a wait for warmer weather, the catastrophe would have been averted.

    But then scheduling for some of the in-orbit, high priority (frivolous, of course) events, involving the public schoolteacher-astronaut, meant to build popular support for even more bloated NASA and public school (a true axis-of-evil) budgets, might have been jeopardized.

    Better to risk loss of life than loss of budget.

    Of course back in ‘67, NASA’s politicized decision-making led to the incineration of three other astronauts.

    Regarding Boeing, it’s really something how that company, which should be one of the most profitable businesses in the world, can be so financially unimpressive.

    Bill must be turning over in his grave.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Abolish_public_education


    Of course back in ‘67, NASA’s politicized decision-making led to the incineration of three other astronauts.
     
    What did politics have to do with the Apollo fire?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  55. I have talked to people who work in aerospace.

    First, most of the jobs are not engineering positions. Many are assembly line jobs or mechanics. These are union blue collar jobs which often pay more than the young engineers.

    Consider Joe and John. Both are bright, both like to work with their hands.

    Joe goes to college and studies engineering. He is probably hired by a staffing agency unless he is a real hot shot. He hasn’t made any money in the last 4 years. Instead, he has amassed some student loans.

    John enlists in the USAF or the USMC or the USN as an airplane mechanic. He earns crappy pay for 4 years, but has no debt. He gets hired after his honorable discharge as a permanent employee with Union wages and benefits.

    Right off the bat, John the mechanic is in better shape than Joe the engineer. Joe has the debts and the degree and the fancy title, John has the higher pay, job security and better benefits.

    True, Joe the engineer will be doing better 20 years from now. But by that time John the mechanic will have more home equity.

    • Replies: @Charles
    @Paleo Liberal

    I wouldn't bet too much on either man having a bright future. Unfortunately, twenty years from right now Whites may be in concentration camps or dead.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Paleo Liberal

    Paleo, my daughter is a Project Manager at an Aerospace company that makes parts for jet engines. She started out in Accounting, moved to Cost Control and then Certified Project Manager. The bottom line is the most important aspect of any business. Engineers may be good with specs but not always money. And, she has no student loan debt and the company paid for her MBA.

  56. @cthulhu
    At my employer - which competes with Boeing in several areas - HR doesn’t have the final say on hiring of engineers; they don’t even get a final say in resume screening.

    And the engineering side of the 737 Max fiasco is a lot more subtle than most people think - long story short, Boeing ended up crafting a system that, although crappy, was perfectly safe - in the hands of reasonably skilled pilots, such as are found in the US and most of Europe - but was a death trap to the significant numbers of lousy pilots in the Third World. But Boeing management was aiming the 737 Max squarely at those countries and their airlines with some pretty crappy pilots, with predictable results to anybody who knew the whole story. A classic case of management hiding the real requirements forthe design.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @vhrm, @usNthem

    Lockheed’s F-104 was pretty safe for the top USAF pilots to fly, but then Lockheed bribed the West German defense minister $10 million to buy a lot of F-104s for the newly reconstituted West German air force (which had lost all its veteran pilots in the War and then was out of business from 1945-55).

    That didn’t work out well.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Germany had not lost all its pilots, just many of them. The top fighter pilot Erich Hartmann survived the war and some time in the custody of the Soviets. Eventually he was able to join the new West German air force and command a fighter wing, Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen" the first all jet air wing for that force. There were other WW II era pilots available to fly.

    Hartmann strongly opposed adopting the F-104 and was retired around 1970 as a result. I think he preferred the Republic F-84 as an aircraft.

    , @JoetheHun
    @Steve Sailer

    That was Franz Josef Strauss , a bit corrupt but a political giant compared with the pygmies of the Merkel era...

  57. @Ben Kurtz
    Insourcing their janitorial staff and hiring black instead of Hispanic doesn't bother me terribly.

    Displacing competent workers on the assembly line with affirmative action hires is worrisome. I've long wondered how much of the Big Three's quality control problems in the 1970s were due to their lacking the technology and methods to deal with the incompetence and indolence of their affirmative action hires on the assembly line.

    Non-merit hiring on the engineering side would be disastrous. Maybe hire some of the more polished candidates into Sales? Might or might not work out for the shareholders but keeps the flying public out of direct danger.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @mmack, @Jim Don Bob

    A few months back I posted a reply to a poster about the US auto industry’s troubles in the 1970s by citing an interview in Studs Terkel’s book Working. Studs interviews Gary Bryner, a UAW Local President at the Lordstown, OH plant. At the time of the book (early 1970s) Lordstown was building the Chevrolet Vega. The Vega was a disaster for GM, an even bigger disaster than the Chevrolet Corvair. GM cut corners on the car (Example: to save $8/car, GM left out steel cylinder liners for the Vega’s all aluminum engine block, gambling that the additives to the aluminum would harden the cylinder walls. Pro tip, it didn’t and Vega engines burned oil like crazy). To make volume GM ramped up production to 100 units an hour at Lordstown. This article: https://qz.com/1510405/gms-layoffs-can-be-traced-to-its-quest-to-turn-people-into-machines/
    gives a good insight (albeit very leftist) into the turmoil at Lordstown. And yes, GM brought in technology (robots for assembly work, computer monitoring of assembly steps and work) to try to control the output. But you had a perfect storm of:

    – Clueless Board Level management that really didn’t want to build small cars (“Small cars mean small profits”, a Detroit mantra) but were forced into it.
    – Middle management and Engineering that were focused on numbers (cost per unit and units built/sold) and not on the quality of the product
    – And left ignored / unsaid in the linked article but noted in Working, a militant and resentful workforce of hippies, vets, and “Diversity is Beautiful, Baby!” line workers. While they had legitimate grievances on the rate of cars being demanded, left unsaid was their attitude after the 1972 strike at Lordstown was settled and the rate of cars per hour was reduced. And the Japanese ate GM’s lunch.

    I fear Boeing is going down the same road, with the exception that Uncle Sammy needs Boeing built aircraft and spacecraft for the foreseeable future.

    • Replies: @black sea
    @mmack

    Most people, including blue collar workers, hate factory work, and always have. Assembly line work requires a modicum of skill and responsibility, coupled with a nearly superhuman tolerance for boredom and repetitive motion. Hence, its suitability to robot labor.

    As the US post-war economy expanded, it became harder to find capable people who would do such work in the long term. This certainly wasn't the only factor in the decline of the US auto industry, but it played a significant role.

    Replies: @mmack

  58. @t
    They've been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Colin Wright

    ‘They’ve been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.’

    That may be why they made the pledge. If it’s going to happen of itself, why not score some points for it?

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  59. @Whiskey
    This unfortunately is the result of black racial supremacy. black people are just BETTER, and I am not being sarcastic, at things that the West values: keeping it real, pimping, fighting with cops, busting caps, stealing stuff, and sucker punch knockouts of 95 year old women. THAT is what the West, highly feminized and homosexual, values.

    Stuff like hard work, intelligence, duty, conscience, fear of failing, etc. mean nothing. Less than nothing, male intelligence alone is massive turnoff to women and always has been. Even or especially for White women.

    An average hood rat like Jacob Blake has what, six kids. The average White male engineer at Boeing or Sandia National Laboratories has ... none. Maybe a lifetime membership at some pr0n site. That right there tells you what is valued.

    I think it is only a short step to a China style Uighur series of camps for White men. Work for Apple or Nike makes free.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Negrolphin Pool

    ‘An average hood rat like Jacob Blake has what, six kids. The average White male engineer at Boeing or Sandia National Laboratories has …’

    But I wouldn’t sleep with any of the women Blake did, and I wouldn’t want the resulting progeny.

    You might as well tell me about the greater fecundity of the brown rat.

  60. Anon[331] • Disclaimer says:

    Six years ago, long before the current 737Max fiasco, I met a couple of Boeing engineers who told me that Boeing was no longer an aerospace company, that it had become a software company. They were aerospace engineers who quit in disgust after James McNerney, former CEO of Boeing, decided to update the 737 using a mere software upgrade rather than a complete engine redesign as the engineers urged him to, and what’s more outsourced the entire project to an Indian outsourcing firm that paid their software “engineers” $9/hr.

    That’s how Boeing ended up with the 737 Max fiasco. McNerney was a Harvard MBA who came from GE (protege of “maximize shareholder value” Jack Welsh) with zero aerospace or engineering background, who was brought in by the Boeing board to cut cost. He oversaw the entire 737 Max project from conception to launch. His successor, a real aerospace engineer, Dennis Mullenburg, was brought in to deal with the disaster that he left behind and became the fall guy. The current CEO, David Calhoun, is from an accounting background, again came from GE with zero aerospace or engineering background.

    Calhoun reminded me of Apple CEO Tim Cook, an MBA with no computer background. Since he took over Apple basically has had zero innovation, just keep upgrading existing products. Apple stock is way over valued. It’s just a matter of time before a Chinese company out innovate them. And just like Tim Cook, Calhoun compensates for his lack of innovation and technological expertise with corporate woke-ism.

    The difference is, a poorly designed iPhone won’t kill you, but a poorly designed airplane will.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Anon

    "Software Engineering" is the place where such bizarre beings as "full stack software developers" exist:

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eierlegende_Wollmilchsau

    And they are cheap, or at least that's what is expected.

    Why not re-engineer a plane on the go?

  61. Anon[222] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Question about black crime statistics:

    1. Blacks commit over half the murders.

    2. Blacks murder suspects outnumber whitess by 10 to 1.

    How to harmonize these two claims? If 1 in 6 commit 10 in 11, shouldn’t blacks commit some huge percent of murders, 95 percent or so? While so many homicide suspects for so few murders, ten times the suspects versus three times the murders?

  62. @bruce county
    Well blacks are capable of putting a round ball thru a large hoop. It can't be that difficult to build a massive airliner. What could go wrong? What can possibly go horribly wrong?
    Buckle up folks were are about to experience extreme turbulence.

    http://www.igta5.com/images/official-screenshot-burning-plane-in-sky.jpg

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy

    “Excuse me, stewardess. I speak jive.”

  63. @Hhsiii
    I remember waking up around noon to find out the space shuttle had blown up when I was in college. I was an English major, but when I heard how cold it was that morning in Florida, I thought that’s unusual, I bet that had something to do with it. Something shrunk. Weird how obvious that was.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Florida, I thought that’s unusual, I bet that had something to do with it. Something shrunk. Weird how obvious that was.

    No. The failure was caused by O-rings that became less elastic at low temperatures. During lift off the solid rocket boosters flexed and hot gases escaped past the deformed O-rings. Instead of Jello they were more like Silly Putty.

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    @James Speaks

    I know. Close enough.

  64. anon[328] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @cthulhu

    Lockheed's F-104 was pretty safe for the top USAF pilots to fly, but then Lockheed bribed the West German defense minister $10 million to buy a lot of F-104s for the newly reconstituted West German air force (which had lost all its veteran pilots in the War and then was out of business from 1945-55).

    That didn't work out well.

    Replies: @anon, @JoetheHun

    Germany had not lost all its pilots, just many of them. The top fighter pilot Erich Hartmann survived the war and some time in the custody of the Soviets. Eventually he was able to join the new West German air force and command a fighter wing, Jagdgeschwader 71 “Richthofen” the first all jet air wing for that force. There were other WW II era pilots available to fly.

    Hartmann strongly opposed adopting the F-104 and was retired around 1970 as a result. I think he preferred the Republic F-84 as an aircraft.

  65. This is just one more reason *not* to fly, in addition to cutting air pollution and reducing globalization.

  66. I am a bit disappointed by the Feynman’s O Ring background story. Is it true?

  67. @Reg Cæsar

    Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees
     
    By weight?

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    Replies: @wren, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon, @TWS, @cynthia curran, @Russ, @Excal

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    One rumor floating around Seattle at the time was that Phil Condit’s mistress lived in Chicago.

  68. Boeing CEO Pledges a 20 Percent Increase in Black Employees

    How much you wanna bet that they’ll get the crappiest jobs too?

    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    @Mr. Anon

    It's a taxiway, and the leading edge slats are set for takeoff.

    That's an undocumented passenger, not an employee.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @anon, @Mr. Anon

    , @El Dato
    @Mr. Anon

    "I can understand your anguish about leaving this place but you getter get the hell off there before this plane really gets going"

    , @usNthem
    @Mr. Anon

    That’s what they’re qualified for, don’t you think?

    , @bruce county
    @Mr. Anon

    Is that T'Challa stealing design ideas for Wakanda?

    , @Jim Christian
    @Mr. Anon

    Funny pic, good find, Mr. Anon! But this is yet another example of White privilege, no? Consider the pic. No parachute for a black man!

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190719133557-man-climbs-plane-nigeria-intl-0719-full-169.jpg

  69. @cthulhu
    At my employer - which competes with Boeing in several areas - HR doesn’t have the final say on hiring of engineers; they don’t even get a final say in resume screening.

    And the engineering side of the 737 Max fiasco is a lot more subtle than most people think - long story short, Boeing ended up crafting a system that, although crappy, was perfectly safe - in the hands of reasonably skilled pilots, such as are found in the US and most of Europe - but was a death trap to the significant numbers of lousy pilots in the Third World. But Boeing management was aiming the 737 Max squarely at those countries and their airlines with some pretty crappy pilots, with predictable results to anybody who knew the whole story. A classic case of management hiding the real requirements forthe design.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @vhrm, @usNthem

    And the engineering side of the 737 Max fiasco is a lot more subtle than most people think – long story short, Boeing ended up crafting a system that, although crappy, was perfectly safe – in the hands of reasonably skilled pilots, such as are found in the US and most of Europe – but was a death trap to the significant numbers of lousy pilots in the Third World. But Boeing management was aiming the 737 Max squarely at those countries and their airlines with some pretty crappy pilots, with predictable results to anybody who knew the whole story. A classic case of management hiding the real requirements forthe design.

    I don’t think that’s the case in _this_ case. Yes, a pilot should be able to deal with this as a “runaway trim” situation but in practice it was apparently pretty darned hard to recover in some cases.

    Also there’s no excuse for this thing being able to runaway based on a single bad AoA sensor.

    An engineering design subtlety that puts this in classic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 territory is that the original design of MCAS only had 0.6 deg of trim authority and 2 sensors (AoA and g-force). Based on some analysis they got rid of the g-force.

    Later they increased the 0.6 deg total deflection to 2.5deg PER ACTIVATION on a system with a max range of 4.7 deg. (https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2019/06/27/the-inside-story-of-mcas-how-boeings-737-max-system-gained-power-and-lost-safeguards/ )

    AND even though it did such unintuitive things like:

    For example, there is a cutout switch in the control column so that when a pilot pulls or pushes in the opposite direction to a runaway stabilizer, it cuts electric power to the stabilizer. When MCAS is active, this cutout switch doesn’t work, which could surprise a pilot who didn’t know about the system.

    Boeing got the FAA to agree that the system didn’t need to be documented or trained for, or mentioned in transitional training from the 737 to the MAX.

    So… while some places definitely have problems with undertrained (and even fraudulently certificated pilots) in this case the MCAS feature as shipped was crap.

    Even Capt. Sully said it was just luck that it didn’t happen in the US. (https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/734248714/pilots-criticize-boeing-saying-737-max-should-never-have-been-approved )

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    @vhrm

    My brother-in-law is an Avionics Technician who is afraid to fly. Make of that what you will.

    Replies: @black sea

  70. @Paleo Liberal
    I have talked to people who work in aerospace.

    First, most of the jobs are not engineering positions. Many are assembly line jobs or mechanics. These are union blue collar jobs which often pay more than the young engineers.

    Consider Joe and John. Both are bright, both like to work with their hands.

    Joe goes to college and studies engineering. He is probably hired by a staffing agency unless he is a real hot shot. He hasn’t made any money in the last 4 years. Instead, he has amassed some student loans.

    John enlists in the USAF or the USMC or the USN as an airplane mechanic. He earns crappy pay for 4 years, but has no debt. He gets hired after his honorable discharge as a permanent employee with Union wages and benefits.

    Right off the bat, John the mechanic is in better shape than Joe the engineer. Joe has the debts and the degree and the fancy title, John has the higher pay, job security and better benefits.

    True, Joe the engineer will be doing better 20 years from now. But by that time John the mechanic will have more home equity.

    Replies: @Charles, @Buffalo Joe

    I wouldn’t bet too much on either man having a bright future. Unfortunately, twenty years from right now Whites may be in concentration camps or dead.

  71. @Giant Duck
    I'm not sure how this math would work, as Boeing already laid off 16,000 employees this year and plans on more layoffs and buyouts as COVID and the MAX debacle have taken a toll on the company.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/business/boeing-more-job-cuts/index.html

    So does the CEO mean a 20 percent increase on the existing, and presumably shrinking, number of Black employees? Will Boeing hire more Blacks while simultaneously eliminating thousands of other jobs? It doesn't really make sense. I guess that's why he declined to give a timeline.

    In any event, Boeing employs over 100,000 people. How many are actually engineers, versus welders, salesmen, IT techs, secretaries, etc. etc.?

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @bomag

    Why on earth are you capitalizing the “b” word now?

    [ I mean “boeing” of course. ]

  72. @Dr. X
    What a brilliant plan, after they killed hundreds and lost billions by outsourcing the 737 MAX software to Subcontinentals for $9 an hour:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers

    "Diversity i̶s̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶a̶t̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶r̶e̶n̶g̶t̶h̶ makes our planes crash."

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @epebble, @Almost Missouri

    Having planes stay up in the air is a prime example of white supremacy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    It literally is..

    , @Skylark Thibedeau
    @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    As noted by the Nation of Islam, Africans could fly without planes until those blue eyed devils showed up.

  73. @Dr. X
    What a brilliant plan, after they killed hundreds and lost billions by outsourcing the 737 MAX software to Subcontinentals for $9 an hour:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers

    "Diversity i̶s̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶a̶t̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶r̶e̶n̶g̶t̶h̶ makes our planes crash."

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @epebble, @Almost Missouri

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @epebble

    If you have a software error, you ought to be able to fix it fast. The 737 fiasco has been dragging on because it has fundamental design problems: the new giant jet engines would have dragged on the ground with the old wings, so they moved the wings up, which caused all sorts of problems.

    There are smaller problems like not having 3 speed intakes.

    Replies: @El Dato, @vhrm, @Sgt. Joe Friday

    , @Anonymous
    @epebble

    That's an interesting article. It explains that the MCAS is essentially a 737 emulator.

    You don't need to rewrite your MS-DOS programs to run them under Windows 10 - you just need to run them in a DOS emulator. The underlying hardware has changed but this is abstracted from the DOS program which still thinks its running on a 1984 IBM PC.

    Similarly, you don't need to retrain your 737 pilots to use them in the 737 MAX. The MCAS transparently sits between the new hardware and the old pilot so that, from his point of view, nothing has changed.

    In theory, this is an elegant solution to the problem, however the implementation was badly flawed.

  74. @vhrm
    @cthulhu


    And the engineering side of the 737 Max fiasco is a lot more subtle than most people think – long story short, Boeing ended up crafting a system that, although crappy, was perfectly safe – in the hands of reasonably skilled pilots, such as are found in the US and most of Europe – but was a death trap to the significant numbers of lousy pilots in the Third World. But Boeing management was aiming the 737 Max squarely at those countries and their airlines with some pretty crappy pilots, with predictable results to anybody who knew the whole story. A classic case of management hiding the real requirements forthe design.
     
    I don't think that's the case in _this_ case. Yes, a pilot should be able to deal with this as a "runaway trim" situation but in practice it was apparently pretty darned hard to recover in some cases.

    Also there's no excuse for this thing being able to runaway based on a single bad AoA sensor.

    An engineering design subtlety that puts this in classic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 territory is that the original design of MCAS only had 0.6 deg of trim authority and 2 sensors (AoA and g-force). Based on some analysis they got rid of the g-force.

    Later they increased the 0.6 deg total deflection to 2.5deg PER ACTIVATION on a system with a max range of 4.7 deg. (https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2019/06/27/the-inside-story-of-mcas-how-boeings-737-max-system-gained-power-and-lost-safeguards/ )

    AND even though it did such unintuitive things like:


    For example, there is a cutout switch in the control column so that when a pilot pulls or pushes in the opposite direction to a runaway stabilizer, it cuts electric power to the stabilizer. When MCAS is active, this cutout switch doesn't work, which could surprise a pilot who didn't know about the system.
     
    Boeing got the FAA to agree that the system didn't need to be documented or trained for, or mentioned in transitional training from the 737 to the MAX.

    So... while some places definitely have problems with undertrained (and even fraudulently certificated pilots) in this case the MCAS feature as shipped was crap.

    Even Capt. Sully said it was just luck that it didn't happen in the US. (https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/734248714/pilots-criticize-boeing-saying-737-max-should-never-have-been-approved )

    Replies: @BenKenobi

    My brother-in-law is an Avionics Technician who is afraid to fly. Make of that what you will.

    • Replies: @black sea
    @BenKenobi


    My brother-in-law is an Avionics Technician who is afraid to fly. Make of that what you will.
     
    I know a guy who is a retired airline mechanic. He quit flying decades ago.
  75. @mmack
    @Ben Kurtz

    A few months back I posted a reply to a poster about the US auto industry’s troubles in the 1970s by citing an interview in Studs Terkel’s book Working. Studs interviews Gary Bryner, a UAW Local President at the Lordstown, OH plant. At the time of the book (early 1970s) Lordstown was building the Chevrolet Vega. The Vega was a disaster for GM, an even bigger disaster than the Chevrolet Corvair. GM cut corners on the car (Example: to save $8/car, GM left out steel cylinder liners for the Vega’s all aluminum engine block, gambling that the additives to the aluminum would harden the cylinder walls. Pro tip, it didn’t and Vega engines burned oil like crazy). To make volume GM ramped up production to 100 units an hour at Lordstown. This article: https://qz.com/1510405/gms-layoffs-can-be-traced-to-its-quest-to-turn-people-into-machines/
    gives a good insight (albeit very leftist) into the turmoil at Lordstown. And yes, GM brought in technology (robots for assembly work, computer monitoring of assembly steps and work) to try to control the output. But you had a perfect storm of:

    - Clueless Board Level management that really didn’t want to build small cars (“Small cars mean small profits”, a Detroit mantra) but were forced into it.
    - Middle management and Engineering that were focused on numbers (cost per unit and units built/sold) and not on the quality of the product
    - And left ignored / unsaid in the linked article but noted in Working, a militant and resentful workforce of hippies, vets, and “Diversity is Beautiful, Baby!” line workers. While they had legitimate grievances on the rate of cars being demanded, left unsaid was their attitude after the 1972 strike at Lordstown was settled and the rate of cars per hour was reduced. And the Japanese ate GM’s lunch.

    I fear Boeing is going down the same road, with the exception that Uncle Sammy needs Boeing built aircraft and spacecraft for the foreseeable future.

    Replies: @black sea

    Most people, including blue collar workers, hate factory work, and always have. Assembly line work requires a modicum of skill and responsibility, coupled with a nearly superhuman tolerance for boredom and repetitive motion. Hence, its suitability to robot labor.

    As the US post-war economy expanded, it became harder to find capable people who would do such work in the long term. This certainly wasn’t the only factor in the decline of the US auto industry, but it played a significant role.

    • Replies: @mmack
    @black sea

    I agree, and I was trying to give the original poster of an example to meet his question "I’ve long wondered how much of the Big Three’s quality control problems in the 1970s were due to their lacking the technology and methods to deal with the incompetence and indolence of their affirmative action hires on the assembly line."

    Here's a very interesting and honest article on the closing of the old Dodge Main plant in Hamtramck, MI in 1980. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1980/07/13/silence-on-the-line-at-dodge-main-1914-1980/a757ab4a-3609-423a-a054-90ad4eb7fd7a/

    Honest in this sense: While Dodge Main was an aging plant that couldn't be converted easily, something else changed in Detroit:

    "Eruptions of labor disputes over the years punctuated the daily assembly line monotony as the plant aged and the makeup of the work force changed. Young blacks from Detroit gradually took the place of the retired Hamtramck workers with European roots, followed by immigrants from Yemen, Lebanon and other Arab countries who came to Detroit in the late 1960s and 1970s.

    Along the way, something went wrong. Chrysler officials and UAW members agree.The relationship between older white foreman and younger black and Arab autoworkers could not survive the pressures of Detroit's riot in 1967 and a growing hostility of young assembly line workers to strict authority."

    ...

    "A generation ago, workers tolerated the staggering heat of furnaces and foundries and the unbroken noise of the assembly line as part of the job, and found relief in the rows of beer and whiskey lined up at the B&H lounge across Joseph Campau Avenue. By the mid-1970s, some autoworkers were getting relief on the job and the smell of marijuana in the assembly pits could make a non-smoker high. By then, workmanship in the plant had slipped noticeably, company and union officials agree."

    Dodge Main was destroyed in 1981. GM built "Poletown" (Detroit/Hamtramck Assembly) on the site, with the explicit plan to make it the most automated plant in the US.

    Taking it to the present day, Boeing is in GM level trouble with quality control:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-tanker-jets-grounded-due-to-tools-and-debris-left-during-manufacturing/

    https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/04/02/air-force-again-halts-kc-46-deliveries-after-more-debris-found/

    https://breakingdefense.com/2019/06/fod-fod-fod-kc-46-production-drops-roper-says-boeing-needs-cultural-change/

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boeing-orders-robust-probe-after-potentially-damaging-debris-found-737-n1138861

    https://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2020/06/17/more-debris-found-on-a-new-boeing-tanker.html

    So if you have that many problems, how will adding "Woke" line workers who can't leave their activism at home help improve things?

    Replies: @black sea

  76. In another thread here, I said,

    With the 737 Max, Boeing achieved a near-impossible level of engineering incompetence: They took what may have been the most-proven and safest airframe in history and from it created an aircraft with dangerous flight instabilities.

    This is the aeronautical equivalent of f***ing up coffee.

    The above indicates catastrophic administrative failure.

    The Soviets under hard communism were ultimately able to create some of the most venerable aircraft of the 20th century: the fastest turboprop, one of the safest 4-engine jetliners ever built, competitive fighters, all for fractions of US R&D and unit costs.

    Yet, as FUSA converges on the full communist model even its most critical industries appear to be reaching fail points.

    Demographics and Soviet leadership not being high on its own supply probably explain a lot.

  77. @John Milton’s Ghost
    If the training at Sandia nuclear labs is any indication, we may have planes falling from The sky with greater frequency, since hard work and rational thought and even punctuality are the White Devil’s ideas.

    But as Steve and other commenters are pointing out the bait and switch and overlay of verbose Critical Race nonsense on all HR training are more likely to be the results. We are increasingly living in a world where absurdity and cognitive dissonance are at a fever pitch

    Replies: @Mr McKenna

    “In the world of ETHNOMATHEMATICS, 2+2=oppression and ‘achievement’ is a white supremacist construct”

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/494718-math-racist-decolonialize-oppression-fail/

  78. • Replies: @Alden
    @El Dato

    Person working next to him was named Kevin Kaplan and wore a white shirt one day. The trauma disabled Mr affirmative action for life and Boeing compensated him with a multi million dollar payout.

  79. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    [1] Some crucial information is missing from the New York Post article: (a) The company-wide percentage of Black employees before and after this change is not stated, even as a goal. (b) The number and kind of "racist symbols" found by a Black manager at Boeing's Everett factory are not identified. What were they? Garage-door pull-loops?
    [2] Stock tip: Short companies whose top executives are on a melanin-worship jag.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Stock tip: Short companies whose top executives are on a melanin-worship jag.

    So, you’re saying short the entire S&P500? Done, and done!

  80. This old joke is easily adaptable.

    No I won’t do it, my Mom (who lives in everything is flowers except Orange Man Bad world) would call me racist.

    From an old joke about two lions who, escaping from the zoo, split up to increase their chances but agree to meet after 2 months. When they finally meet, one is skinny and the other overweight. The thin one says: “How did you manage? I ate a human just once and they turned out a small army to chase me — guns, nets, it was terrible. Since then I’ve been reduced to eating mice, insects, even grass.” The fat one replies: “Well, I hid near an IBM office and ate a manager a day. And nobody even noticed!”

    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @El Dato

    Here's another old IBM joke.

    I met a woman in a bar who'd been married and divorced three times, and was still a virgin. All her husbands were IBM sales guys who sat on the edge of the bed and told her how good it was going to be.

  81. Plaque engineers? How many would you have to call at random who would know how to evaluate a basic integral like Exp-(x)^2 from zero to infinity? Compare this to Asians or WHITES. “White Supremacy” what am I supposed to think if you go by the HISTORICAL RECORD? They interbred with Neanderthals who had huge cranial volumes so of course they have staggering analytic capabilities. Three WHITE men discovered the foundation of modern math: Calculus. Archimedes (discovered integral Calc. only but hey it was 20 centuries before the other two) Leibniz and of course Sir Isaac Newton.
    Jazz and basketball supremacy go to Plaques and that’s fine to say. Shaming supremacy goes to Japanese and communism supremacy to the Chinese. Why is it so bad to say a group does so much good? Which group saves the most babies daily? Built the most hospitals and schools? Started the most charities? Given the most to charity? Made the discoveries and inventions that make life so much better : Electromagnetism, airplanes, automobiles, Air conditioning, phone, tv, internet, etc…

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @Franz Liszt von Raiding

    "evaluate a basic integral like Exp-(x)^2 from zero to infinity?"

    Um, one half the square root of pi?

    Most engineers don't know how to evaluate that particular integral and they revert to looking the answer up in a book or online? It is not simple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_integral), and it was probably covered in a required math course for an engineering degree, but they slept through the lecture by the Asian-accented math TA on that topic. The dark secret of the profession is that engineers know that math is good for you, but they hate it anyway. Kind of like Brussel sprouts?

    Replies: @El Dato

  82. @International Jew
    This is great news for China's budding aircraft industry.

    Replies: @Andrei Martyanov, @David Davenport

    This is great news for China’s budding aircraft industry.

    China has many wonderful achievements, commercial aerospace (or even military one) is not one of them. Hence CR-929, while COMAC-919 is not a competitive aircraft and by a long shot.

    • Agree: Jazman
    • Replies: @gmachine1729
    @Andrei Martyanov

    A Chinese in microelectronics tells me that J-20 is two generations ahead of Su-35. He says that Russia's industry was not at the level of West post WWII due to the lower starting point. He says that though Soviets first put a satellite and man space, America was a year later was able to do it much more cheaply. The lower quality, higher cost, and lower volumes of consumer products is most indicative of the gap with respect to West and Japan.

    He said that Russia today is basically not at all player in microelectronics, especially the fabrication aspect. According to him, why could the USSR and PRC not keep up with West in microelectronics? Because the industrial foundation was behind, especially in precision/chemical engineering. Integrated circuit fabrication has extremely high quality and material purity demands. So from 1970s on once West and Japan, transitioned to integrated circuits mass manufactured, USSR and PRC were left far behind. PRC's first transistor computer was 1964, USSR's was early 60s. It was only early 70s when PRC had its first integrated circuit computer, which according to him was of partially reverse engineered design. By the 80s, when West and Japanese integrated circuits became too complex, reverse engineering was no longer an option. And much of the photolithography was still manual, with low rates of sufficient quality. But China was able to from 70s on obtain technology from West in chemical industry and microelectronics, USSR's weak points.

    He thinks that in face of these disadvantages, Russia's main advantage is size and natural resources, and also combined with the circumstance, the economic/political system. Because of that, even if their stuff is lower quality and more expensive to produce, they are still able to manufacture larger numbers. He says missiles and nuclear weapons are not that hard. They are one time, and do not need to be durable like cars or airplanes, with very high materials quality requirement. He says that in the 1950s, some PRC technologies particularly in optics and electronics, were actually obtained from East Germany and Japan, which were in those more advanced than the USSR.

    Of course, he also thinks that America has turned to shit, de-industrialized, forgotten a lot of stuff it used to know.

  83. “Pick up the white man’s Boeing…”

  84. @bigdicknick
    @Dan Hayes

    exactly. and why does some executive at Boeing car anyway? It doesn't impact him at all. He is giving away some other guys job, not his own. That's what our elites are: generous with the little guy's stuff.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad, @Known Fact, @Drapetomaniac

    You, my friend, have touched on a real problem.

    • Replies: @bigdicknick
    @Mr McKenna

    I once attended a group lunch with a 50+ year old multimillionaire female executive where she talked about the horrors of muh kids in cages and how we need to let anyone willing to use their child as a human shield immigrate here. Meanwhile she lives in an INCREDIBLY affluent suburb in the metro area she lives in. On top of that her kid went to a super expensive PRIVATE high school. So there will be no illegals in her neighborhood or in her kid's school.

    But she is more than happy to generously give away her mechanic's kid's school and neighborhood to anyone who is able to get their kid over here. Our elites are very very generous, just not with the stuff that belongs to them.

  85. @Bell
    Umm, Isn't it illegal to discriminate by race in hiring? How are the companies going to meet these commitments without violating the law?

    Replies: @Kronos

    Here’s some light reading…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group

  86. @Whiskey
    This unfortunately is the result of black racial supremacy. black people are just BETTER, and I am not being sarcastic, at things that the West values: keeping it real, pimping, fighting with cops, busting caps, stealing stuff, and sucker punch knockouts of 95 year old women. THAT is what the West, highly feminized and homosexual, values.

    Stuff like hard work, intelligence, duty, conscience, fear of failing, etc. mean nothing. Less than nothing, male intelligence alone is massive turnoff to women and always has been. Even or especially for White women.

    An average hood rat like Jacob Blake has what, six kids. The average White male engineer at Boeing or Sandia National Laboratories has ... none. Maybe a lifetime membership at some pr0n site. That right there tells you what is valued.

    I think it is only a short step to a China style Uighur series of camps for White men. Work for Apple or Nike makes free.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Negrolphin Pool

    For white men of Italian, Irish and, controversially, Jewish background, ruthless gangsterism does come somewhat naturally.

    In the film “American Gangster”, there is a ridiculous scene where an obvious Jew plays a goyishe golem badcop who tears into Anglo-Saxon poster boy Russel Crowe, who is himself playing a Jew.

    He says something like, “Joggers have never achieved in 100 years what the Italian mafia has in the last 3.”

    He’s not wrong.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @Negrolphin Pool


    In the film “American Gangster”, there is a ridiculous scene where an obvious Jew plays a goyishe golem badcop who tears into Anglo-Saxon poster boy Russel Crowe, who is himself playing a Jew.
     
    That's nearly the past 80 years of Hollywood movies in a nutshell.
  87. @Hhsiii
    @Reg Cæsar

    Yes. The cooks, waiters and dishwashers at the Tip Top Inn in Pawleys Island where we stayed when I was a kid. Destroyed in Hurricane Hugo. Also the staff at the K&W. The maids. Etc.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?

    Yes. The cooks, waiters and dishwashers at the Tip Top Inn in Pawleys Island where we stayed when I was a kid.

    Was that the place the Rev’m Jackson added his special proprietary seasonings to the entrées? You couldn’t pay me to eat there.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    @Reg Cæsar

    Ha, could be.

    Although an old white lady was usually in the kitchen, too.

    Try the pickled shrimp:


    https://www.amazon.com/Charleston-Receipts-Junior-League/dp/0960785426/ref=asc_df_0960785426/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312104252832&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18386173590575559024&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004568&hvtargid=pla-570229202330&psc=1

  88. @epebble
    @Dr. X

    737 Max disasters were design engineering failure, not software.

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-737-max-disaster-looks-to-a-software-developer

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    If you have a software error, you ought to be able to fix it fast. The 737 fiasco has been dragging on because it has fundamental design problems: the new giant jet engines would have dragged on the ground with the old wings, so they moved the wings up, which caused all sorts of problems.

    There are smaller problems like not having 3 speed intakes.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Steve Sailer

    Actually, I think they "moved the engines forward" instead of redesigning the plane to avoid having to undergo re-certification; leading to different in-flight handling characteristics; leading to updates to the software to try to make it appear the physical machine hasn't changed; leading to the software overriding the pilots at certain moments; leading to not-updated pilots unaware about this possibility and, missing some feedback info due to penny pinching, getting confused; leading to a bad cognitive feedback loop and Cognitive Lockup; leading to unhealable intersection with terrain.

    Replies: @TheJester

    , @vhrm
    @Steve Sailer

    The wings are in the same place, i believe, but the engines were moved forward so that they could be moved up so that part of the top of the engine can be in front of the wing (and level with it) rather than under it.

    From everything i've read a good enough fix could easily have been made in software or even with some basic awareness and training. The whole MCAS system is mostly unnecessary except for an "out of an abundance of caution" sort of thing. It's not even supposed to ever engage in normal flight. And even when it does it just prevents some somewhat non-standard behavior in that the stick would get lighter to pull back in some abnormal cases rather than getting progressively heavier, but if you push forward on the stick, which is what every pilot would do if the nose were too high, the nose of the plane would still go down. It's not like the system prevents entering some unrecoverable spin or stall or something.

    Heck the whole grounding has been an unnecessary show. By the time it happened the cause was basically known.

    It's just that now that the FAA and their equivalents across the globe have been caught with their pants down they've switched to super ultra mega conservative CYA mode and nobody wants to approve anything.

    Replies: @vhrm, @El Dato

    , @Sgt. Joe Friday
    @Steve Sailer

    Why couldn't they just bring back the 757?

  89. I assume the plan is to fill up the non-engineering jobs in HR, admin and so on, to fill the announced quota.

  90. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    "Must we search out Embraer small airliners because at least Brazil doesn’t play that way?"

    I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but when I visited Embraer back in the 1990's when I was working at a firm that sold some of the electronic components used in the cockpit, the head engineer that cattered to me and showed me around was a white man with red hair and grey eyes. Literally. And yes, he was 100% Brazilian. The other engineers looked either 100% white or what we call whitish. I mean the person that is at least 90% European and you need to stare hard at them to detect the non-white features.

    And you are right that they don't play those games there. It is an extreme meritocracy. Because for a Third World country with a lot to prove, a company like that is an issue of national pride. The people there are the top 0.01% of technical and scientific capacity of the country. 99% of engineers with masters degrees would get turned down if they tried to apply for Embraer because they are simply not good enough. The selection process is beyond ruthless. Getting to work for one of these elite national companies is a matter of family pride. Imagine how an American feels like when their kid gets into Harvard, and then multiply by 100 X. Their technical capabilities are so high that they even started working on several protoypes of plane engines and made them work, but couldn't compete with the economy of scale of Rolls Royce and GE so gave up.

    That is based on what my Brazilian friends told me, and it is interesting that, to them, it is not only about profits but national pride. Point is, an Embraer plane crashing makes not only the company look bad and the shareholders lose money; it makes the COUNTRY look bad and they can't have that. The head engineer that showed me around, for instance, had a post-grad in aeronautic engineering from ITA, their hardest engineering school, and degrees in both physics and math. I know because I asked. Those people are competent.

    Replies: @Negrolphin Pool

    So, how long until Brazil starts worrying about becoming “the US of the South”?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Negrolphin Pool

    They already have a huge problem of Bolivians and Paraguyans immigrating em masse. Sao Paulo has like a quarter million Bolivians living there illegally. LOL

  91. @Negrolphin Pool
    @Whiskey

    For white men of Italian, Irish and, controversially, Jewish background, ruthless gangsterism does come somewhat naturally.

    In the film "American Gangster", there is a ridiculous scene where an obvious Jew plays a goyishe golem badcop who tears into Anglo-Saxon poster boy Russel Crowe, who is himself playing a Jew.

    He says something like, "Joggers have never achieved in 100 years what the Italian mafia has in the last 3."

    He's not wrong.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna

    In the film “American Gangster”, there is a ridiculous scene where an obvious Jew plays a goyishe golem badcop who tears into Anglo-Saxon poster boy Russel Crowe, who is himself playing a Jew.

    That’s nearly the past 80 years of Hollywood movies in a nutshell.

  92. @Mr. Anon

    Boeing CEO Pledges a 20 Percent Increase in Black Employees
     
    How much you wanna bet that they'll get the crappiest jobs too?

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190719133557-man-climbs-plane-nigeria-intl-0719-full-169.jpg

    Replies: @Negrolphin Pool, @El Dato, @usNthem, @bruce county, @Jim Christian

    It’s a taxiway, and the leading edge slats are set for takeoff.

    That’s an undocumented passenger, not an employee.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Negrolphin Pool

    Killjoy. You could have made a joke about the dude being the low-cost option airlines choose to actuate the slats before takeoff.

    Replies: @Negrolphin Pool

    , @anon
    @Negrolphin Pool

    Thanks Captain!

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Negrolphin Pool

    Gosh. Thanks. I never would have realized that.

  93. @BenKenobi
    @vhrm

    My brother-in-law is an Avionics Technician who is afraid to fly. Make of that what you will.

    Replies: @black sea

    My brother-in-law is an Avionics Technician who is afraid to fly. Make of that what you will.

    I know a guy who is a retired airline mechanic. He quit flying decades ago.

  94. “If it’s Boeing, I ain’t going.”

    /Thread over

  95. @Mr. Anon

    Boeing CEO Pledges a 20 Percent Increase in Black Employees
     
    How much you wanna bet that they'll get the crappiest jobs too?

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190719133557-man-climbs-plane-nigeria-intl-0719-full-169.jpg

    Replies: @Negrolphin Pool, @El Dato, @usNthem, @bruce county, @Jim Christian

    “I can understand your anguish about leaving this place but you getter get the hell off there before this plane really gets going”

  96. @Steve Sailer
    @epebble

    If you have a software error, you ought to be able to fix it fast. The 737 fiasco has been dragging on because it has fundamental design problems: the new giant jet engines would have dragged on the ground with the old wings, so they moved the wings up, which caused all sorts of problems.

    There are smaller problems like not having 3 speed intakes.

    Replies: @El Dato, @vhrm, @Sgt. Joe Friday

    Actually, I think they “moved the engines forward” instead of redesigning the plane to avoid having to undergo re-certification; leading to different in-flight handling characteristics; leading to updates to the software to try to make it appear the physical machine hasn’t changed; leading to the software overriding the pilots at certain moments; leading to not-updated pilots unaware about this possibility and, missing some feedback info due to penny pinching, getting confused; leading to a bad cognitive feedback loop and Cognitive Lockup; leading to unhealable intersection with terrain.

    • Replies: @TheJester
    @El Dato

    It seems you are saying that the 737 MAX worked exactly as designed ... with everyone at Boeing from engineering, to safety, to corporate "weenies" crossing their fingers in the hope no one would notice.

    I love this phrase:

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick

    In searching for ultimate causes, could the 737 MAX fiasco be blamed on the dramatic requirement for CONFORMITY at all levels in our society due to the political correctness rigidly enforced by HR departments in governmental, corporate, and academic institutions?

    Replies: @El Dato

  97. @Negrolphin Pool
    @Anonymous

    So, how long until Brazil starts worrying about becoming "the US of the South"?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    They already have a huge problem of Bolivians and Paraguyans immigrating em masse. Sao Paulo has like a quarter million Bolivians living there illegally. LOL

  98. I work for Boeing’s rival (in defense), the world’s largest defense company. We go to great length to identify black talent. When we hire them, we bend over backward for them e.g. giving them paid time with a black mentor, etc. Management practically creams itself when they find black technical talent. I sat in a cube with a talented young black software engineer (and genuinely nice person) from poor Mississippi. We currently have another young black man who is impressive in our department.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @BCB232


    I work for Boeing’s rival (in defense), the world’s largest defense company. We go to great length to identify black talent. When we hire them, we bend over backward for them e.g. giving them paid time with a black mentor, etc. Management practically creams itself when they find black technical talent. I sat in a cube with a talented young black software engineer (and genuinely nice person) from poor Mississippi. We currently have another young black man who is impressive in our department.
     
    Balck Diamonds they call them in South Africa.
  99. @El Dato

    Person working next to him was named Kevin Kaplan and wore a white shirt one day. The trauma disabled Mr affirmative action for life and Boeing compensated him with a multi million dollar payout.

  100. @Steve Sailer
    @epebble

    If you have a software error, you ought to be able to fix it fast. The 737 fiasco has been dragging on because it has fundamental design problems: the new giant jet engines would have dragged on the ground with the old wings, so they moved the wings up, which caused all sorts of problems.

    There are smaller problems like not having 3 speed intakes.

    Replies: @El Dato, @vhrm, @Sgt. Joe Friday

    The wings are in the same place, i believe, but the engines were moved forward so that they could be moved up so that part of the top of the engine can be in front of the wing (and level with it) rather than under it.

    From everything i’ve read a good enough fix could easily have been made in software or even with some basic awareness and training. The whole MCAS system is mostly unnecessary except for an “out of an abundance of caution” sort of thing. It’s not even supposed to ever engage in normal flight. And even when it does it just prevents some somewhat non-standard behavior in that the stick would get lighter to pull back in some abnormal cases rather than getting progressively heavier, but if you push forward on the stick, which is what every pilot would do if the nose were too high, the nose of the plane would still go down. It’s not like the system prevents entering some unrecoverable spin or stall or something.

    Heck the whole grounding has been an unnecessary show. By the time it happened the cause was basically known.

    It’s just that now that the FAA and their equivalents across the globe have been caught with their pants down they’ve switched to super ultra mega conservative CYA mode and nobody wants to approve anything.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    @vhrm

    Heh, just thought of this: It's as if you made a new model of a venerable line of buses, say you added a hybrid system that changed added more power and changed the weight distribution. Under full throttle and 80%+ steering input it starts to oversteer a little. The old bus didn't do that.

    So you design a whole new stability control system just to get rid of that oversteer tendency even though nobody would ever drive a bus that way anyway and even if they did they could deal with the oversteer by turning the wheel a little less or in some extreme cases countersteering.

    That's basically MCAS.
    Nothing wrong with stability control... except if it's designed by morons and occasionally kicks in and yanks the steering wheel out of your hands and drives you into a tree, oncoming traffic, etc.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    , @El Dato
    @vhrm


    Heck the whole grounding has been an unnecessary show. By the time it happened the cause was basically known.
     
    Disagree.

    The cause may be know, but does one know how to fix, does one want to fix it, it is really all that needs to be fixing etc.

    Those planes should only fly when the benefits exceed the potential problems, i.e. in wartime or when people need to be transported away from a horrendous diversity outbreak or Alien Invasion.
  101. @Negrolphin Pool
    @Mr. Anon

    It's a taxiway, and the leading edge slats are set for takeoff.

    That's an undocumented passenger, not an employee.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @anon, @Mr. Anon

    Killjoy. You could have made a joke about the dude being the low-cost option airlines choose to actuate the slats before takeoff.

    • LOL: Negrolphin Pool
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    @The Alarmist

    He'll be deadheading this one.

  102. I wonder if SPEEA has the balls to say anything other than support for this.

  103. @vhrm
    @Steve Sailer

    The wings are in the same place, i believe, but the engines were moved forward so that they could be moved up so that part of the top of the engine can be in front of the wing (and level with it) rather than under it.

    From everything i've read a good enough fix could easily have been made in software or even with some basic awareness and training. The whole MCAS system is mostly unnecessary except for an "out of an abundance of caution" sort of thing. It's not even supposed to ever engage in normal flight. And even when it does it just prevents some somewhat non-standard behavior in that the stick would get lighter to pull back in some abnormal cases rather than getting progressively heavier, but if you push forward on the stick, which is what every pilot would do if the nose were too high, the nose of the plane would still go down. It's not like the system prevents entering some unrecoverable spin or stall or something.

    Heck the whole grounding has been an unnecessary show. By the time it happened the cause was basically known.

    It's just that now that the FAA and their equivalents across the globe have been caught with their pants down they've switched to super ultra mega conservative CYA mode and nobody wants to approve anything.

    Replies: @vhrm, @El Dato

    Heh, just thought of this: It’s as if you made a new model of a venerable line of buses, say you added a hybrid system that changed added more power and changed the weight distribution. Under full throttle and 80%+ steering input it starts to oversteer a little. The old bus didn’t do that.

    So you design a whole new stability control system just to get rid of that oversteer tendency even though nobody would ever drive a bus that way anyway and even if they did they could deal with the oversteer by turning the wheel a little less or in some extreme cases countersteering.

    That’s basically MCAS.
    Nothing wrong with stability control… except if it’s designed by morons and occasionally kicks in and yanks the steering wheel out of your hands and drives you into a tree, oncoming traffic, etc.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @vhrm

    Sound like a not-terribly-thrilling sequel to Speed -- do you have Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves all lined up for this?

  104. Anonymous[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @epebble
    @Dr. X

    737 Max disasters were design engineering failure, not software.

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-737-max-disaster-looks-to-a-software-developer

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    That’s an interesting article. It explains that the MCAS is essentially a 737 emulator.

    You don’t need to rewrite your MS-DOS programs to run them under Windows 10 – you just need to run them in a DOS emulator. The underlying hardware has changed but this is abstracted from the DOS program which still thinks its running on a 1984 IBM PC.

    Similarly, you don’t need to retrain your 737 pilots to use them in the 737 MAX. The MCAS transparently sits between the new hardware and the old pilot so that, from his point of view, nothing has changed.

    In theory, this is an elegant solution to the problem, however the implementation was badly flawed.

  105. @Reg Cæsar
    @Hhsiii



    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?
     
    Yes. The cooks, waiters and dishwashers at the Tip Top Inn in Pawleys Island where we stayed when I was a kid.
     
    Was that the place the Rev'm Jackson added his special proprietary seasonings to the entrées? You couldn't pay me to eat there.

    Replies: @Hhsiii

    Ha, could be.

    Although an old white lady was usually in the kitchen, too.

    Try the pickled shrimp:

  106. @vhrm
    Vague platitudes about diversity and intentions are one thing, but the CEO giving numerical racial goals ?

    I'm curious what the memo actually says. This sounds awfully close to racial quotas for hiring, which the Supreme Court has frowned upon.

    The first rule of implementing racial quotas (in the US) is that you don't talk about racial quotas in public or on paper. You still implement them as part of your Affirmative Action plan, but you can't mention it.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @BenKenobi, @Hannah Katz

    Lucky for Boeing there is a surplus of black electrical engineers, mechanical engineers and industrial engineers looking for work. Most are from the Ivy League, MIT and Cal Tech. Or something…

  107. @Reg Cæsar
    @t


    They’ve been moving their factories from Washington to South Carolina for years, that should lead to some increase in black employees by itself.
     
    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?

    Replies: @Hhsiii, @The Alarmist

    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?

    So, you’re not buying that whole slavery legend?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @The Alarmist


    So, you’re not buying that whole slavery legend?
     
    Just the part about work getting done.

    Doesn't add up, in HBD terms.
  108. @Negrolphin Pool
    @Mr. Anon

    It's a taxiway, and the leading edge slats are set for takeoff.

    That's an undocumented passenger, not an employee.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @anon, @Mr. Anon

    Thanks Captain!

  109. @Anon
    Six years ago, long before the current 737Max fiasco, I met a couple of Boeing engineers who told me that Boeing was no longer an aerospace company, that it had become a software company. They were aerospace engineers who quit in disgust after James McNerney, former CEO of Boeing, decided to update the 737 using a mere software upgrade rather than a complete engine redesign as the engineers urged him to, and what's more outsourced the entire project to an Indian outsourcing firm that paid their software "engineers" $9/hr.

    That's how Boeing ended up with the 737 Max fiasco. McNerney was a Harvard MBA who came from GE (protege of "maximize shareholder value" Jack Welsh) with zero aerospace or engineering background, who was brought in by the Boeing board to cut cost. He oversaw the entire 737 Max project from conception to launch. His successor, a real aerospace engineer, Dennis Mullenburg, was brought in to deal with the disaster that he left behind and became the fall guy. The current CEO, David Calhoun, is from an accounting background, again came from GE with zero aerospace or engineering background.

    Calhoun reminded me of Apple CEO Tim Cook, an MBA with no computer background. Since he took over Apple basically has had zero innovation, just keep upgrading existing products. Apple stock is way over valued. It's just a matter of time before a Chinese company out innovate them. And just like Tim Cook, Calhoun compensates for his lack of innovation and technological expertise with corporate woke-ism.

    The difference is, a poorly designed iPhone won't kill you, but a poorly designed airplane will.

    Replies: @El Dato

    “Software Engineering” is the place where such bizarre beings as “full stack software developers” exist:

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eierlegende_Wollmilchsau

    And they are cheap, or at least that’s what is expected.

    Why not re-engineer a plane on the go?

  110. I was a Boeing employee. Before I got laid off had to attend sexual harassment seminars with the rest of the employees, which were fortuitously scheduled the very week the CEO was deposed for banging a subordinate. After that enjoyed seeing commercials of diversity Boeing people checking their 401Ks and launching spacecraft. I had worked at a small subsidiary in another state that Boeing had bought out. A couple years after I left ran into a former spergy co-worker who sat in the next cube and rarely spoke to me. But he poured out his guts how Boeing corporate had expunged the life out of the whole organization. Even during a mass layoff they opened a position for an engineering aide to help the manager with various corporate management tasks and nobody at our site applied for the job, preferring unemployment to being a paid corporate HR stooge.

    • Replies: @cynthia curran
    @Elmer T. Jones

    Well, Boeing did engineering of the Max 737 in India and its costs a lot of money. All big companies are made to do the diversity stuff. Personality, I don't mine them hiring 20 percent black if they can reduce the number of Indians from India hiring that is typical of these companies loving black lives matter.

  111. @James Speaks
    @Hhsiii


    Florida, I thought that’s unusual, I bet that had something to do with it. Something shrunk. Weird how obvious that was.
     
    No. The failure was caused by O-rings that became less elastic at low temperatures. During lift off the solid rocket boosters flexed and hot gases escaped past the deformed O-rings. Instead of Jello they were more like Silly Putty.

    Replies: @hhsiii

    I know. Close enough.

  112. @Ben Kurtz
    Insourcing their janitorial staff and hiring black instead of Hispanic doesn't bother me terribly.

    Displacing competent workers on the assembly line with affirmative action hires is worrisome. I've long wondered how much of the Big Three's quality control problems in the 1970s were due to their lacking the technology and methods to deal with the incompetence and indolence of their affirmative action hires on the assembly line.

    Non-merit hiring on the engineering side would be disastrous. Maybe hire some of the more polished candidates into Sales? Might or might not work out for the shareholders but keeps the flying public out of direct danger.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @mmack, @Jim Don Bob

    If I never flew again, it would be too soon. I like a lot of things about the modern world, but flying is the most dehuman thing out there.

  113. @Abolish_public_education
    Had the government, launch control bureaucrats decided to scrub the launch (again), in a wait for warmer weather, the catastrophe would have been averted.

    But then scheduling for some of the in-orbit, high priority (frivolous, of course) events, involving the public schoolteacher-astronaut, meant to build popular support for even more bloated NASA and public school (a true axis-of-evil) budgets, might have been jeopardized.

    Better to risk loss of life than loss of budget.

    Of course back in ‘67, NASA’s politicized decision-making led to the incineration of three other astronauts.

    Regarding Boeing, it’s really something how that company, which should be one of the most profitable businesses in the world, can be so financially unimpressive.

    Bill must be turning over in his grave.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Of course back in ‘67, NASA’s politicized decision-making led to the incineration of three other astronauts.

    What did politics have to do with the Apollo fire?

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @Jim Don Bob

    The engineers didn’t want pure O2.

    I hate Copy’n Paste, but this is from PopSci (emphasis added):

    Ultimately, NASA's decision to keep the same pure oxygen environment after the Apollo 1 fire boils down to the need to get to the Moon on schedule. Keeping the onboard systems simple and not adding weight were two ways the agency could ensure Apollo was still ready to fly and make it to the Moon by the end of the 1960s. The change to the launch environment, in a way, made the best of a less-than-ideal arrangement, and also ensured the Apollo 1 astronauts' deaths helped push the agency forward.

    Got to get there before the decade is out. “Go for 100% O2 on the ground!”

  114. @El Dato
    This old joke is easily adaptable.

    No I won't do it, my Mom (who lives in everything is flowers except Orange Man Bad world) would call me racist.

    From an old joke about two lions who, escaping from the zoo, split up to increase their chances but agree to meet after 2 months. When they finally meet, one is skinny and the other overweight. The thin one says: "How did you manage? I ate a human just once and they turned out a small army to chase me -- guns, nets, it was terrible. Since then I've been reduced to eating mice, insects, even grass." The fat one replies: "Well, I hid near an IBM office and ate a manager a day. And nobody even noticed!"
     

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Here’s another old IBM joke.

    I met a woman in a bar who’d been married and divorced three times, and was still a virgin. All her husbands were IBM sales guys who sat on the edge of the bed and told her how good it was going to be.

  115. @wren
    A friend's fiance completed air traffic controller school just as the Obama administration changed the hiring rules.

    He had to give up on that dream after spending a lot of money to do the courses.

    I haven't heard of any crashes due to worse air traffic controllers yet, though.

    Perhaps computers make their job more fool proof now.

    https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/06/27/the-disastrous-initiative-to-hire-air-traffic-controllers-based-on-diversity-not-talent/

    Replies: @CBTerry

    I have not either, although there are well-documented near misses (I’ve listened on youtube to a black air-traffic controller nearly lead a jet into mountains and another give clearance to take off while the runway was obstructed by cross traffic).
    But I suspect that problems would first present in general aviation, which does not get much press coverage.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @CBTerry

    I know a guy worked the tower at Dulles. He said a female black co-worker almost vectored a plane into Air Force One.

  116. @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder
    @Dr. X

    Having planes stay up in the air is a prime example of white supremacy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Skylark Thibedeau

    It literally is..

  117. Those magnificent men in their flying machines,
    they go up tiddly up up,
    they go down tiddly down down.
    They enchant all the ladies and steal all the scenes,
    with their up tiddly up up
    and their down tiddly down down.

  118. Remember that Little Black Sambo was a Hindoo Indian not an African. If they increase the diversity by 20% they can hire 20% more subcontinent H1b’s and still say they are hiring more blacks. The big banks are already doing this. Laying off middle class Americans including African-Americans and replacing them with East Asians and Filipinos in call centers working for$200/week and no benefits.

  119. @El Dato
    @Steve Sailer

    Actually, I think they "moved the engines forward" instead of redesigning the plane to avoid having to undergo re-certification; leading to different in-flight handling characteristics; leading to updates to the software to try to make it appear the physical machine hasn't changed; leading to the software overriding the pilots at certain moments; leading to not-updated pilots unaware about this possibility and, missing some feedback info due to penny pinching, getting confused; leading to a bad cognitive feedback loop and Cognitive Lockup; leading to unhealable intersection with terrain.

    Replies: @TheJester

    It seems you are saying that the 737 MAX worked exactly as designed … with everyone at Boeing from engineering, to safety, to corporate “weenies” crossing their fingers in the hope no one would notice.

    I love this phrase:

    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” — Philip K. Dick

    In searching for ultimate causes, could the 737 MAX fiasco be blamed on the dramatic requirement for CONFORMITY at all levels in our society due to the political correctness rigidly enforced by HR departments in governmental, corporate, and academic institutions?

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @TheJester


    In searching for ultimate causes, could the 737 MAX fiasco be blamed on the dramatic requirement for CONFORMITY at all levels in our society due to the political correctness rigidly enforced by HR departments in governmental, corporate, and academic institutions?
     
    Not in this case.

    It's "just" cutting corners, and then the Configuration of the Real World aligns just so (a bit easier because of the corner cutting) that you get blasted by the light of catastrophe. There is also a whiff of scandal due to the FAA allowing "self-certification" which causes a conflict of interest between "getting the plane out" and "making sure the certification is serious" that even a company like Boeing might be unable to handle and for which it might accept higher financial/legal exposure than should be rationally expected (cough).

    A lot of discussion right here a Unz, with 800+ comments carrying good stuff:

    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/boeing-737-max-the-upgrade/?showcomments#comments
  120. @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder
    @Dr. X

    Having planes stay up in the air is a prime example of white supremacy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Skylark Thibedeau

    As noted by the Nation of Islam, Africans could fly without planes until those blue eyed devils showed up.

  121. @George Taylor
    Will a increase in black bodies at Boeing make up for the black bodies they killed in the 737MAX crashes?

    Replies: @JMcG

    It was the black bodies flying that Ethiopian 737 Max that killed tbose black bodies in the back. Make no mistake.

    • Replies: @mikeInThe716
    @JMcG

    It's been almost 18 months since that plane was flown nose first into the ground at 700+ mph.

    Where's the investigation going? The cockpit voice recordings have not been released as far as I know. Although my google and duckduckgo skills are poor right now due to lack of sleep...

    Replies: @JMcG

    , @vhrm
    @JMcG


    It was the black bodies flying that Ethiopian 737 Max that killed tbose black bodies in the back. Make no mistake.
     
    Some French bodies flying an Airbus A330 killed a bunch of French and Brazilian bodies in (arguably) much less difficult circumstances:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447


    And a random middle aged white american body with a good 3400 hours managed to stall a turboprop on approach and kill a bunch of mostly american bodies. (although to be somewhat fair, apparently the regional airlines' training back then left a lot to be desired in this area of approach stalls to the point where the training might have caused this (but overemphasizing not losing altitude in a stall recovery (which is nigh impossible) and this was also in the worst old days in terms of crew rest requirements (or lack thereof).. both subjects where significant changes were made in the US in large part due to this accident)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407
  122. @Dr. X
    What a brilliant plan, after they killed hundreds and lost billions by outsourcing the 737 MAX software to Subcontinentals for $9 an hour:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers

    "Diversity i̶s̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶a̶t̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶r̶e̶n̶g̶t̶h̶ makes our planes crash."

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @epebble, @Almost Missouri

    Broke: 737 MAX

    Woke: 737 KANG

    Broke: MCAS

    Woke: McASS

    Broke: turbofan

    Woke: twerkofan

  123. @bigdicknick
    @Dan Hayes

    exactly. and why does some executive at Boeing car anyway? It doesn't impact him at all. He is giving away some other guys job, not his own. That's what our elites are: generous with the little guy's stuff.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad, @Known Fact, @Drapetomaniac

    Boomer virtue.

  124. @Art Deco
    I think it's conceivable that the social dynamics by which people land at the top of corporate hierarchies tend to throw up men inclined to be fad-chasers.

    Replies: @pirelli

    Certainly conceivable. In Steve’s memorable formulation (or perhaps memorable only to me), the people who succeed in any competitive field tend to be “good looking, conformist go-getters.”

    Contrarians (or “free thinkers” if you wanna be annoying about it) are seen by most people as petty and impractical, even faintly ridiculous. Conformist types get the job done, or more precisely, they leave everyone feeling assured that the job has been done competently and in accordance with established protocols, and then they move on to the next position or to the next company before any serious errors can be discovered.

  125. @Reg Cæsar

    Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees
     
    By weight?

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    Replies: @wren, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon, @TWS, @cynthia curran, @Russ, @Excal

    They moved to break the once strong connection between management and the community.

    They used to care about their workers and the larger community. That was nearly forty years ago. Not that the unions didn’t strike for more money and the management tell them no. But they didn’t bind the mouth of the kine and they genuinely understood they couldn’t give the unions everything they wanted.

    Now there’s no more feeling of connection to the workers or the community.

  126. @vhrm
    @Steve Sailer

    The wings are in the same place, i believe, but the engines were moved forward so that they could be moved up so that part of the top of the engine can be in front of the wing (and level with it) rather than under it.

    From everything i've read a good enough fix could easily have been made in software or even with some basic awareness and training. The whole MCAS system is mostly unnecessary except for an "out of an abundance of caution" sort of thing. It's not even supposed to ever engage in normal flight. And even when it does it just prevents some somewhat non-standard behavior in that the stick would get lighter to pull back in some abnormal cases rather than getting progressively heavier, but if you push forward on the stick, which is what every pilot would do if the nose were too high, the nose of the plane would still go down. It's not like the system prevents entering some unrecoverable spin or stall or something.

    Heck the whole grounding has been an unnecessary show. By the time it happened the cause was basically known.

    It's just that now that the FAA and their equivalents across the globe have been caught with their pants down they've switched to super ultra mega conservative CYA mode and nobody wants to approve anything.

    Replies: @vhrm, @El Dato

    Heck the whole grounding has been an unnecessary show. By the time it happened the cause was basically known.

    Disagree.

    The cause may be know, but does one know how to fix, does one want to fix it, it is really all that needs to be fixing etc.

    Those planes should only fly when the benefits exceed the potential problems, i.e. in wartime or when people need to be transported away from a horrendous diversity outbreak or Alien Invasion.

  127. @black sea
    @mmack

    Most people, including blue collar workers, hate factory work, and always have. Assembly line work requires a modicum of skill and responsibility, coupled with a nearly superhuman tolerance for boredom and repetitive motion. Hence, its suitability to robot labor.

    As the US post-war economy expanded, it became harder to find capable people who would do such work in the long term. This certainly wasn't the only factor in the decline of the US auto industry, but it played a significant role.

    Replies: @mmack

    I agree, and I was trying to give the original poster of an example to meet his question “I’ve long wondered how much of the Big Three’s quality control problems in the 1970s were due to their lacking the technology and methods to deal with the incompetence and indolence of their affirmative action hires on the assembly line.”

    Here’s a very interesting and honest article on the closing of the old Dodge Main plant in Hamtramck, MI in 1980. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1980/07/13/silence-on-the-line-at-dodge-main-1914-1980/a757ab4a-3609-423a-a054-90ad4eb7fd7a/

    Honest in this sense: While Dodge Main was an aging plant that couldn’t be converted easily, something else changed in Detroit:

    “Eruptions of labor disputes over the years punctuated the daily assembly line monotony as the plant aged and the makeup of the work force changed. Young blacks from Detroit gradually took the place of the retired Hamtramck workers with European roots, followed by immigrants from Yemen, Lebanon and other Arab countries who came to Detroit in the late 1960s and 1970s.

    Along the way, something went wrong. Chrysler officials and UAW members agree.The relationship between older white foreman and younger black and Arab autoworkers could not survive the pressures of Detroit’s riot in 1967 and a growing hostility of young assembly line workers to strict authority.”

    “A generation ago, workers tolerated the staggering heat of furnaces and foundries and the unbroken noise of the assembly line as part of the job, and found relief in the rows of beer and whiskey lined up at the B&H lounge across Joseph Campau Avenue. By the mid-1970s, some autoworkers were getting relief on the job and the smell of marijuana in the assembly pits could make a non-smoker high. By then, workmanship in the plant had slipped noticeably, company and union officials agree.”

    Dodge Main was destroyed in 1981. GM built “Poletown” (Detroit/Hamtramck Assembly) on the site, with the explicit plan to make it the most automated plant in the US.

    Taking it to the present day, Boeing is in GM level trouble with quality control:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-tanker-jets-grounded-due-to-tools-and-debris-left-during-manufacturing/

    https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/04/02/air-force-again-halts-kc-46-deliveries-after-more-debris-found/

    https://breakingdefense.com/2019/06/fod-fod-fod-kc-46-production-drops-roper-says-boeing-needs-cultural-change/

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boeing-orders-robust-probe-after-potentially-damaging-debris-found-737-n1138861

    https://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2020/06/17/more-debris-found-on-a-new-boeing-tanker.html

    So if you have that many problems, how will adding “Woke” line workers who can’t leave their activism at home help improve things?

    • Replies: @black sea
    @mmack

    And of course, there's the case of the Arab mechanic in Miami who tampered with an airplane's navigation system because he was upset about union negotiations with the airline.

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article238483208.html

    I suppose this was activism of a sort. Oh, and he had a fondness for ISIS execution videos as well.

  128. @Anonymous
    Boeing has thousands of suppliers domestically and around the world that do a lot of the engineering and manufacturing. And most of these blacks will probably be hired for back office administrative type jobs, rather than critical engineering work.

    Replies: @Justvisiting

    most of these blacks will probably be hired for back office administrative type jobs

    Many corporations have tried that little trick, and then are shocked when the payroll gets all messed up, the warehouses are mysteriously emptied in the dead of night, and the payables never seem to get paid on time and receivables never seem to get received on time…

    Boeing puts….just do it….

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Justvisiting


    Many corporations have tried that little trick...
     
    Do Blacks even want these jobs?

    More generous welfare might be the preferred option all the way around.

  129. Don’t worry, what they probably mean is 20 percent more blacks in the annual report photos wearing ties and construction helmets while peering thoughtfully at blueprints

    • LOL: usNthem
  130. @vhrm
    @vhrm

    Heh, just thought of this: It's as if you made a new model of a venerable line of buses, say you added a hybrid system that changed added more power and changed the weight distribution. Under full throttle and 80%+ steering input it starts to oversteer a little. The old bus didn't do that.

    So you design a whole new stability control system just to get rid of that oversteer tendency even though nobody would ever drive a bus that way anyway and even if they did they could deal with the oversteer by turning the wheel a little less or in some extreme cases countersteering.

    That's basically MCAS.
    Nothing wrong with stability control... except if it's designed by morons and occasionally kicks in and yanks the steering wheel out of your hands and drives you into a tree, oncoming traffic, etc.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Sound like a not-terribly-thrilling sequel to Speed — do you have Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves all lined up for this?

  131. @bigdicknick
    @Dan Hayes

    exactly. and why does some executive at Boeing car anyway? It doesn't impact him at all. He is giving away some other guys job, not his own. That's what our elites are: generous with the little guy's stuff.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad, @Known Fact, @Drapetomaniac

    That’s what our elites are: generous with the little guy’s stuff.

    bdn–Nice snappy line. That’s the crux of it.

    Elites always want to be elite and have their stuff. But the difference is what we have now is a traitorous disloyal elite–disconnected from and contemptuous of the American people, always working to sell them out.

  132. @bigdicknick
    @Dan Hayes

    exactly. and why does some executive at Boeing car anyway? It doesn't impact him at all. He is giving away some other guys job, not his own. That's what our elites are: generous with the little guy's stuff.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad, @Known Fact, @Drapetomaniac

    Much like that pro-looter person is just fine with other people taking your stuff

  133. @cthulhu
    At my employer - which competes with Boeing in several areas - HR doesn’t have the final say on hiring of engineers; they don’t even get a final say in resume screening.

    And the engineering side of the 737 Max fiasco is a lot more subtle than most people think - long story short, Boeing ended up crafting a system that, although crappy, was perfectly safe - in the hands of reasonably skilled pilots, such as are found in the US and most of Europe - but was a death trap to the significant numbers of lousy pilots in the Third World. But Boeing management was aiming the 737 Max squarely at those countries and their airlines with some pretty crappy pilots, with predictable results to anybody who knew the whole story. A classic case of management hiding the real requirements forthe design.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @vhrm, @usNthem

    Just like the jogger criminality problem here which cannot be noticed or discussed – no one could point out the pilots & crew were third world. No 737 Max aircraft went down here or in Europe. If BA was targeting shithole countries with it, they’re paying the price and will probably continue to do so, at least until they hire a bunch more blacks – then they’ll really take off, so to speak.

    • Agree: JMcG
  134. @Mr. Anon

    Boeing CEO Pledges a 20 Percent Increase in Black Employees
     
    How much you wanna bet that they'll get the crappiest jobs too?

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190719133557-man-climbs-plane-nigeria-intl-0719-full-169.jpg

    Replies: @Negrolphin Pool, @El Dato, @usNthem, @bruce county, @Jim Christian

    That’s what they’re qualified for, don’t you think?

  135. Eventually, Chinese/Japanese investors will buy Boeing or they will start making their own planes to compete with Boeing, and this non-sense will come to an end.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Nope. There is NFW the US government is gonna let Boeing get bought out by foreigners or go under, and Boeing management knows it.

  136. Ok, so they go from ten janitors to twelve. What’s the problem?

  137. @Mr McKenna
    @bigdicknick

    You, my friend, have touched on a real problem.

    Replies: @bigdicknick

    I once attended a group lunch with a 50+ year old multimillionaire female executive where she talked about the horrors of muh kids in cages and how we need to let anyone willing to use their child as a human shield immigrate here. Meanwhile she lives in an INCREDIBLY affluent suburb in the metro area she lives in. On top of that her kid went to a super expensive PRIVATE high school. So there will be no illegals in her neighborhood or in her kid’s school.

    But she is more than happy to generously give away her mechanic’s kid’s school and neighborhood to anyone who is able to get their kid over here. Our elites are very very generous, just not with the stuff that belongs to them.

    • Agree: Charon, bomag
  138. @Giant Duck
    I'm not sure how this math would work, as Boeing already laid off 16,000 employees this year and plans on more layoffs and buyouts as COVID and the MAX debacle have taken a toll on the company.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/business/boeing-more-job-cuts/index.html

    So does the CEO mean a 20 percent increase on the existing, and presumably shrinking, number of Black employees? Will Boeing hire more Blacks while simultaneously eliminating thousands of other jobs? It doesn't really make sense. I guess that's why he declined to give a timeline.

    In any event, Boeing employs over 100,000 people. How many are actually engineers, versus welders, salesmen, IT techs, secretaries, etc. etc.?

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @bomag

    Maybe pledging to hire more blacks is akin to my pledging to finally getting around to reading Cavilieri’s Geometry of the Infinitesimal.

  139. I’ve always wondered if CEOs have intentions of following through on these proposals, or if it’s just a way to get some easy PR. They have to know which employees are the most productive and innovative. After all, with the pace at which the news cycle moves, it’s not like anyone is going to check in three years from now to see if they actually did it.

  140. As if Boeing didn’t have enough problems with the 737 MAX, Corona, massive layoffs, etc.

    But I guess they will fill the quota just hiring blacks to this “internal Racial Justice think-thank” and pay them to harass other employees, but not hiring black engineers. In a way, it’s win-win for the bosses, they score social credit points, keep the employees on the line fearing for their jobs, and if any employee says anything “racist”, they can easily get rid of.

  141. @Mr. Anon

    Boeing CEO Pledges a 20 Percent Increase in Black Employees
     
    How much you wanna bet that they'll get the crappiest jobs too?

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190719133557-man-climbs-plane-nigeria-intl-0719-full-169.jpg

    Replies: @Negrolphin Pool, @El Dato, @usNthem, @bruce county, @Jim Christian

    Is that T’Challa stealing design ideas for Wakanda?

  142. @Reg Cæsar

    Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees
     
    By weight?

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    Replies: @wren, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon, @TWS, @cynthia curran, @Russ, @Excal

    Well, they certainly didn’t hire blacks or whites on the engineering of the Max 637. That was done on India because they only paid 10,000 a year versus 80,000 in the US.

  143. @Elmer T. Jones
    I was a Boeing employee. Before I got laid off had to attend sexual harassment seminars with the rest of the employees, which were fortuitously scheduled the very week the CEO was deposed for banging a subordinate. After that enjoyed seeing commercials of diversity Boeing people checking their 401Ks and launching spacecraft. I had worked at a small subsidiary in another state that Boeing had bought out. A couple years after I left ran into a former spergy co-worker who sat in the next cube and rarely spoke to me. But he poured out his guts how Boeing corporate had expunged the life out of the whole organization. Even during a mass layoff they opened a position for an engineering aide to help the manager with various corporate management tasks and nobody at our site applied for the job, preferring unemployment to being a paid corporate HR stooge.

    Replies: @cynthia curran

    Well, Boeing did engineering of the Max 737 in India and its costs a lot of money. All big companies are made to do the diversity stuff. Personality, I don’t mine them hiring 20 percent black if they can reduce the number of Indians from India hiring that is typical of these companies loving black lives matter.

  144. @mmack
    @black sea

    I agree, and I was trying to give the original poster of an example to meet his question "I’ve long wondered how much of the Big Three’s quality control problems in the 1970s were due to their lacking the technology and methods to deal with the incompetence and indolence of their affirmative action hires on the assembly line."

    Here's a very interesting and honest article on the closing of the old Dodge Main plant in Hamtramck, MI in 1980. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1980/07/13/silence-on-the-line-at-dodge-main-1914-1980/a757ab4a-3609-423a-a054-90ad4eb7fd7a/

    Honest in this sense: While Dodge Main was an aging plant that couldn't be converted easily, something else changed in Detroit:

    "Eruptions of labor disputes over the years punctuated the daily assembly line monotony as the plant aged and the makeup of the work force changed. Young blacks from Detroit gradually took the place of the retired Hamtramck workers with European roots, followed by immigrants from Yemen, Lebanon and other Arab countries who came to Detroit in the late 1960s and 1970s.

    Along the way, something went wrong. Chrysler officials and UAW members agree.The relationship between older white foreman and younger black and Arab autoworkers could not survive the pressures of Detroit's riot in 1967 and a growing hostility of young assembly line workers to strict authority."

    ...

    "A generation ago, workers tolerated the staggering heat of furnaces and foundries and the unbroken noise of the assembly line as part of the job, and found relief in the rows of beer and whiskey lined up at the B&H lounge across Joseph Campau Avenue. By the mid-1970s, some autoworkers were getting relief on the job and the smell of marijuana in the assembly pits could make a non-smoker high. By then, workmanship in the plant had slipped noticeably, company and union officials agree."

    Dodge Main was destroyed in 1981. GM built "Poletown" (Detroit/Hamtramck Assembly) on the site, with the explicit plan to make it the most automated plant in the US.

    Taking it to the present day, Boeing is in GM level trouble with quality control:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-tanker-jets-grounded-due-to-tools-and-debris-left-during-manufacturing/

    https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/04/02/air-force-again-halts-kc-46-deliveries-after-more-debris-found/

    https://breakingdefense.com/2019/06/fod-fod-fod-kc-46-production-drops-roper-says-boeing-needs-cultural-change/

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boeing-orders-robust-probe-after-potentially-damaging-debris-found-737-n1138861

    https://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2020/06/17/more-debris-found-on-a-new-boeing-tanker.html

    So if you have that many problems, how will adding "Woke" line workers who can't leave their activism at home help improve things?

    Replies: @black sea

    And of course, there’s the case of the Arab mechanic in Miami who tampered with an airplane’s navigation system because he was upset about union negotiations with the airline.

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article238483208.html

    I suppose this was activism of a sort. Oh, and he had a fondness for ISIS execution videos as well.

  145. @CBTerry
    @wren

    I have not either, although there are well-documented near misses (I've listened on youtube to a black air-traffic controller nearly lead a jet into mountains and another give clearance to take off while the runway was obstructed by cross traffic).
    But I suspect that problems would first present in general aviation, which does not get much press coverage.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    I know a guy worked the tower at Dulles. He said a female black co-worker almost vectored a plane into Air Force One.

  146. How many of the 20% will be Ethiopian?

  147. @Abelard Lindsey
    Eventually, Chinese/Japanese investors will buy Boeing or they will start making their own planes to compete with Boeing, and this non-sense will come to an end.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Nope. There is NFW the US government is gonna let Boeing get bought out by foreigners or go under, and Boeing management knows it.

  148. @Reg Cæsar

    Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees
     
    By weight?

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    Replies: @wren, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon, @TWS, @cynthia curran, @Russ, @Excal

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    IIRC, Chicago is also the corporate home to American Airlines, so proximity to a major customer was cited back in 1996 by BA.

    Speaking of Snow White CHAZ/CHOP, one wonders how many work units must move from WA to SC to achieve this goal just through broader population demographics.

    Also ironic in that I’m told a broader round of voluntary layoff “opportunities” was unleashed at BA Friday.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @Russ


    IIRC, Chicago is also the corporate home to American Airlines, so proximity to a major customer was cited back in 1996 by BA.
     
    AA's headquarters are in Fort Worth, TX. I believe you're thinking of United Airlines.
  149. @BCB232
    I work for Boeing's rival (in defense), the world's largest defense company. We go to great length to identify black talent. When we hire them, we bend over backward for them e.g. giving them paid time with a black mentor, etc. Management practically creams itself when they find black technical talent. I sat in a cube with a talented young black software engineer (and genuinely nice person) from poor Mississippi. We currently have another young black man who is impressive in our department.

    Replies: @Gordo

    I work for Boeing’s rival (in defense), the world’s largest defense company. We go to great length to identify black talent. When we hire them, we bend over backward for them e.g. giving them paid time with a black mentor, etc. Management practically creams itself when they find black technical talent. I sat in a cube with a talented young black software engineer (and genuinely nice person) from poor Mississippi. We currently have another young black man who is impressive in our department.

    Balck Diamonds they call them in South Africa.

  150. @Negrolphin Pool
    @Mr. Anon

    It's a taxiway, and the leading edge slats are set for takeoff.

    That's an undocumented passenger, not an employee.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @anon, @Mr. Anon

    Gosh. Thanks. I never would have realized that.

  151. @The Alarmist
    @Negrolphin Pool

    Killjoy. You could have made a joke about the dude being the low-cost option airlines choose to actuate the slats before takeoff.

    Replies: @Negrolphin Pool

    He’ll be deadheading this one.

  152. Bioleninism maybe isn’t about do in Boeing, but they’ve certainly badly damaged their brand through naive belief in credentialism and by extension blankslateism. The massive numbers of cut rate south Asians they’ve employed seem to have hollowed out key parts of their production chain. Indians are cheaper, they have the credentials, they’re masters at climbing hierarchies and identifying the buzzwords and shibboleths of an institution, but they can’t execute on undertakings like Americans. They don’t care about doing it right even if it means ignoring convention, in the way ethnic Americans do.

  153. @Anonymousse
    Now afraid to fly... thanks

    Replies: @Simon Tugmutton

    Best to live in a bunker as well.

  154. @Steve Sailer
    @cthulhu

    Lockheed's F-104 was pretty safe for the top USAF pilots to fly, but then Lockheed bribed the West German defense minister $10 million to buy a lot of F-104s for the newly reconstituted West German air force (which had lost all its veteran pilots in the War and then was out of business from 1945-55).

    That didn't work out well.

    Replies: @anon, @JoetheHun

    That was Franz Josef Strauss , a bit corrupt but a political giant compared with the pygmies of the Merkel era…

  155. There are some here who may have read Ayn Rand’s famous novel Atlas Shrugged.

    I did so about 55 years ago and went through that phase. Quite a bit of that stuck. I recall about 45 years ago or so when the Jim Jones/Guyana massacre happened. Recall: left/commie “preacher” with a very diverse flock of idiots in the SF Bay area, politically connected, etc. He scammed his followers and decided the heat was on, moved to remote S. American nation back woods.

    There it was Kool-Aid time for everyone. Some Dem liberal congressman (bravely) went to investigate (I’ll give him credit for that) but was also murdered when the Rev. decided it was time for everyone to leave the planet. I kept thinking at the time, even Ayn Rand couldn’t dream that up.

    Yes her prose got over the top and it was usually too much muchness. But now? Planes falling out of the sky because of Political Correctness from crazy loony leftists? Who would have written about that in say, 1957? Go back and read her depiction of post-sanity America run by, well, Nancy Pelosi & Company. Pretty spot on. BLM, antifa, AOC, “the squad”, Red Bernie, crazy old Joe. All there!

    The fictional John Galt set up his hideaway as a result. Thanks to GPS and Google earth, that no longer works. I’ve seen a couple of “Who is John Galt?” bumper stickers on cars in my suburban ‘hood. (The famous phrase from the novel.) So everything fictional (and old) is now real and new.

    This Jewish anitcommunist Russian refugee had her flaws, but was a better predictor of 2020 than any other “futurist” either before or since. The reasons for the decay she wrote about remain valid and clearly evident now. Odd that the female-centric, immigrant loving commie Left totally hates Rand. Hmmm…

    • Thanks: vhrm
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Muggles

    La Rand was pretty interesting as she had her own sect going with all trappings including struggle sessions. At one point she got her hooks into Murray Rothbard as I recall - it's been some time since I read Justin Raimondo's Rothbard biography (was it before 9/11? time flies)

    Hence a little skit, Mozart was a Red

    Replies: @Muggles

  156. @Justvisiting
    @Anonymous


    most of these blacks will probably be hired for back office administrative type jobs
     
    Many corporations have tried that little trick, and then are shocked when the payroll gets all messed up, the warehouses are mysteriously emptied in the dead of night, and the payables never seem to get paid on time and receivables never seem to get received on time...

    Boeing puts....just do it....

    Replies: @bomag

    Many corporations have tried that little trick…

    Do Blacks even want these jobs?

    More generous welfare might be the preferred option all the way around.

  157. I wouldn’t think that Boeing needs that many forklift drivers or broom pushers—I could be wrong

  158. @Buzz Mohawk
    @vhrm

    At least they can still do math at Boeing.

    Replies: @fish, @Aardvark

    Maff…

  159. @TheJester
    @El Dato

    It seems you are saying that the 737 MAX worked exactly as designed ... with everyone at Boeing from engineering, to safety, to corporate "weenies" crossing their fingers in the hope no one would notice.

    I love this phrase:

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick

    In searching for ultimate causes, could the 737 MAX fiasco be blamed on the dramatic requirement for CONFORMITY at all levels in our society due to the political correctness rigidly enforced by HR departments in governmental, corporate, and academic institutions?

    Replies: @El Dato

    In searching for ultimate causes, could the 737 MAX fiasco be blamed on the dramatic requirement for CONFORMITY at all levels in our society due to the political correctness rigidly enforced by HR departments in governmental, corporate, and academic institutions?

    Not in this case.

    It’s “just” cutting corners, and then the Configuration of the Real World aligns just so (a bit easier because of the corner cutting) that you get blasted by the light of catastrophe. There is also a whiff of scandal due to the FAA allowing “self-certification” which causes a conflict of interest between “getting the plane out” and “making sure the certification is serious” that even a company like Boeing might be unable to handle and for which it might accept higher financial/legal exposure than should be rationally expected (cough).

    A lot of discussion right here a Unz, with 800+ comments carrying good stuff:

    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/boeing-737-max-the-upgrade/?showcomments#comments

  160. “”Boeing CEO Pledges a 20 Percent Increase in Black Employees”

    Aren’t a number of airlines on the brink of bankruptcy? The lockdown and videoconferencing revolution might have permanently shaved off a fair portion of their higher-margin ticket sales.

  161. @Muggles
    There are some here who may have read Ayn Rand's famous novel Atlas Shrugged.

    I did so about 55 years ago and went through that phase. Quite a bit of that stuck. I recall about 45 years ago or so when the Jim Jones/Guyana massacre happened. Recall: left/commie "preacher" with a very diverse flock of idiots in the SF Bay area, politically connected, etc. He scammed his followers and decided the heat was on, moved to remote S. American nation back woods.

    There it was Kool-Aid time for everyone. Some Dem liberal congressman (bravely) went to investigate (I'll give him credit for that) but was also murdered when the Rev. decided it was time for everyone to leave the planet. I kept thinking at the time, even Ayn Rand couldn't dream that up.

    Yes her prose got over the top and it was usually too much muchness. But now? Planes falling out of the sky because of Political Correctness from crazy loony leftists? Who would have written about that in say, 1957? Go back and read her depiction of post-sanity America run by, well, Nancy Pelosi & Company. Pretty spot on. BLM, antifa, AOC, "the squad", Red Bernie, crazy old Joe. All there!

    The fictional John Galt set up his hideaway as a result. Thanks to GPS and Google earth, that no longer works. I've seen a couple of "Who is John Galt?" bumper stickers on cars in my suburban 'hood. (The famous phrase from the novel.) So everything fictional (and old) is now real and new.

    This Jewish anitcommunist Russian refugee had her flaws, but was a better predictor of 2020 than any other "futurist" either before or since. The reasons for the decay she wrote about remain valid and clearly evident now. Odd that the female-centric, immigrant loving commie Left totally hates Rand. Hmmm...

    Replies: @El Dato

    La Rand was pretty interesting as she had her own sect going with all trappings including struggle sessions. At one point she got her hooks into Murray Rothbard as I recall – it’s been some time since I read Justin Raimondo’s Rothbard biography (was it before 9/11? time flies)

    Hence a little skit, Mozart was a Red

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @El Dato

    Yes, Rand was quite a character. Had her own personal drama going. Though a very tough and interesting life, considering where she started from.

    I never saw her in person though did have a lot of friends and associates who were very into all that. I did meet and hear Brandon a number of times.

    The ideas nonetheless, have a timely appeal. Hard core anti-moocherism.

    I was also a close personal friend of Rothbard's (not brag, fact) and saw the Mozart playlet once performed at a Libertarian Party convention event. Murray was there but I can't recall if he played himself or not in that. He had a terrific sense of humor. Raimondo's excellent book is well worth reading. I knew him pretty well too.

    My Theory: if you get vaccinated with Rand at the proper young age, you gain a lot of benefit and are immune in the future from the excesses of "Objectivism" and cultists. Kinda like going to Catholic grade school, so I hear.

  162. @Paleo Liberal
    I have talked to people who work in aerospace.

    First, most of the jobs are not engineering positions. Many are assembly line jobs or mechanics. These are union blue collar jobs which often pay more than the young engineers.

    Consider Joe and John. Both are bright, both like to work with their hands.

    Joe goes to college and studies engineering. He is probably hired by a staffing agency unless he is a real hot shot. He hasn’t made any money in the last 4 years. Instead, he has amassed some student loans.

    John enlists in the USAF or the USMC or the USN as an airplane mechanic. He earns crappy pay for 4 years, but has no debt. He gets hired after his honorable discharge as a permanent employee with Union wages and benefits.

    Right off the bat, John the mechanic is in better shape than Joe the engineer. Joe has the debts and the degree and the fancy title, John has the higher pay, job security and better benefits.

    True, Joe the engineer will be doing better 20 years from now. But by that time John the mechanic will have more home equity.

    Replies: @Charles, @Buffalo Joe

    Paleo, my daughter is a Project Manager at an Aerospace company that makes parts for jet engines. She started out in Accounting, moved to Cost Control and then Certified Project Manager. The bottom line is the most important aspect of any business. Engineers may be good with specs but not always money. And, she has no student loan debt and the company paid for her MBA.

  163. @bigdicknick
    @Dan Hayes

    exactly. and why does some executive at Boeing car anyway? It doesn't impact him at all. He is giving away some other guys job, not his own. That's what our elites are: generous with the little guy's stuff.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad, @Known Fact, @Drapetomaniac

    “That’s what our elites are: generous with the little guy’s stuff.”

    What little guys stuff? The alpha-males and rulers have always been the owners.

    You don’t even own your own life.

  164. Call me an ignorant hillbilly (1/2 a hillbilly to be accurate) but isn’t hiring based on race illegal under all those “Civil Rights” era laws?

  165. @The Alarmist
    @Reg Cæsar


    Is there any evidence that blacks have ever worked in South Carolina?
     
    So, you’re not buying that whole slavery legend?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    So, you’re not buying that whole slavery legend?

    Just the part about work getting done.

    Doesn’t add up, in HBD terms.

  166. This should enrage every right thinking white person but the reality is that if they do make good on the 20% pledge it will have to be in make work middle management positions where the blacks can do little damage. They’ll be relegated to making spreadsheets and asking stupid questions for a paycheck but will be given fancy titles to stroke their egos. They won’t by put into positions requiring technical skill and problem solving ability because they will fail miserably then cry racism.

    But it still sucks because there will be more worthless black biomass taking up space and collecting paychecks that belong to more qualified white workers.

    Wonder how blacky and white leftards would react if one day we read “NFL and NBA to increase number of white players by 20%”. That would be “white supremacy”.

  167. @Steve Sailer
    @epebble

    If you have a software error, you ought to be able to fix it fast. The 737 fiasco has been dragging on because it has fundamental design problems: the new giant jet engines would have dragged on the ground with the old wings, so they moved the wings up, which caused all sorts of problems.

    There are smaller problems like not having 3 speed intakes.

    Replies: @El Dato, @vhrm, @Sgt. Joe Friday

    Why couldn’t they just bring back the 757?

  168. @trelane
    Short Boeing. Long Comac.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Short Boeing. Long Comac.

    Only in the very, very long run.

    Without going book length, the detribalizing (marry the girl next door) of white Europeans under Christianity created a high trust, high empathy people. This capability of whites to do “trust at scale” is what enabled Europeans to create nation state solidarity which with European science/tech allowed them to go out, colonize and dominate the world.

    The Japanese apparently developed a high trust at scale culture through some other means (not involving Christianity or high empathy). And I’d have little issue flying a Japanese designed/built airliner.

    But the Chinese simply don’t have it. They are smart. But while a lot of them are individually first rate people … as society they are low trust. It’s more like dealing with a billion man middle man minority–everyone just trying to get over on you.

    There are two issues:

    1) Fraud, corruption.
    Not every Chinese, but enough, will try and cheat. You’ll start building planes and then find out your last years worth of planes may or may not have bolts that don’t meet the spec because the supplier decided to cheat to make himself an extra $10,000 bucks. Again, low trust, middle-man-minority get-over mentality.

    2) Confucianism / “Tall peg is hammered down”ism.
    There’s a deep strain of know-your-placeism, deference to your proper superiors. This has its appropriate place, but to build something big and complex you also need people willing to squawk, call bullshit, jump up and down when things are off track. Sticking one’s neck out, standing on principle, a sense of “right thing to do” is not something Chinese are prone to do.

    Debacles like launching the shuttle when it was clearly too cold for it’s O-rings because the big-shots wanted it, or like the 737MAX-MACS kludge/crashes are precisely the sort of disasters Chinese aerospace will be prone to.

    ~~

    Long run, with minoritarianism, immigrationism ruling the West, there’s no question that the West’s trendline–including for its technology companies–is negative.

    But despite the Chinese having (probably) a higher spatial IQ than whites, Chinese cultural traits are ill suited to ferreting out and fixing problems and bad designs/decisions. So they have a long ways–requiring some cultural fixes–to go.

    • Replies: @anecdeedy
    @AnotherDad

    I'm Chinese and AnotherDad's assessment of Chinese people is accurate in my opinion.

  169. @JimDandy
    @Reg Cæsar

    Exceptions were made:

    "To lure Boeing to move its corporate headquarters from Seattle to Chicago nearly two decades ago, the city and state showered the aerospace giant with a package of tax incentives that have cost taxpayers more than $60 million and are still partially ongoing."

    Replies: @Hibernian

    The reason given by Boeing was to have a more diverse workforce, compared to Seattle which was then very heavily white. Why not St. Louis, home of the Mc Donnell fighter plane operations? Or DC, near where the procurement decisions are made? Those places have their own urban problems, but also advantages, for Boeing, which Chicago does not have. The HQ, I believe, is a skeleton operation without any other Boeing operations in the area that I know of. It had little impact on either Chicgo’s economy or Boeing’s diversity. The biggest impact to their diversity has almost certainly been the SC operations near Charleston.

    • Replies: @David Davenport
    @Hibernian

    Why not St. Louis, home of the Mc Donnell fighter plane operations?

    Boeing currently has a factory in St. Louis. F-15's are assembled there. It's a former MacDonald Douglas plant.

    Replies: @Hibernian

  170. @Jim Don Bob
    @Abolish_public_education


    Of course back in ‘67, NASA’s politicized decision-making led to the incineration of three other astronauts.
     
    What did politics have to do with the Apollo fire?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    The engineers didn’t want pure O2.

    I hate Copy’n Paste, but this is from PopSci (emphasis added):

    Ultimately, NASA’s decision to keep the same pure oxygen environment after the Apollo 1 fire boils down to the need to get to the Moon on schedule. Keeping the onboard systems simple and not adding weight were two ways the agency could ensure Apollo was still ready to fly and make it to the Moon by the end of the 1960s. The change to the launch environment, in a way, made the best of a less-than-ideal arrangement, and also ensured the Apollo 1 astronauts’ deaths helped push the agency forward.

    Got to get there before the decade is out. “Go for 100% O2 on the ground!”

    • Thanks: Jim Don Bob
  171. @International Jew
    This is great news for China's budding aircraft industry.

    Replies: @Andrei Martyanov, @David Davenport

    This is great news for China’s budding aircraft industry.

    We’ll all feel really healthy and safe flying in a Chinese airliner!

  172. @Hibernian
    @JimDandy

    The reason given by Boeing was to have a more diverse workforce, compared to Seattle which was then very heavily white. Why not St. Louis, home of the Mc Donnell fighter plane operations? Or DC, near where the procurement decisions are made? Those places have their own urban problems, but also advantages, for Boeing, which Chicago does not have. The HQ, I believe, is a skeleton operation without any other Boeing operations in the area that I know of. It had little impact on either Chicgo's economy or Boeing's diversity. The biggest impact to their diversity has almost certainly been the SC operations near Charleston.

    Replies: @David Davenport

    Why not St. Louis, home of the Mc Donnell fighter plane operations?

    Boeing currently has a factory in St. Louis. F-15’s are assembled there. It’s a former MacDonald Douglas plant.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @David Davenport

    Agreed. My sister lives there, and I visit from time to time, and also it's a stopover for me sometimes on SW Airlines to the West Coast. I've seen their buildings on the other side of the runway from the terminal. I should have been more clear and said "former McDonnell, now Boeing, fighter plane operations." Why have a stand alone skeleton HQ in Chicago when you have manufacturing operations in a suburban location? (Yes, I know, it's a deteriorating suburban area.) Put the HQ in still very nice western suburbs of St.L. Downtown might have been a mistake if they had done it. Do something like Lockheed Martin did when they established themselves in Bethesda MD.

  173. @El Dato
    @Muggles

    La Rand was pretty interesting as she had her own sect going with all trappings including struggle sessions. At one point she got her hooks into Murray Rothbard as I recall - it's been some time since I read Justin Raimondo's Rothbard biography (was it before 9/11? time flies)

    Hence a little skit, Mozart was a Red

    Replies: @Muggles

    Yes, Rand was quite a character. Had her own personal drama going. Though a very tough and interesting life, considering where she started from.

    I never saw her in person though did have a lot of friends and associates who were very into all that. I did meet and hear Brandon a number of times.

    The ideas nonetheless, have a timely appeal. Hard core anti-moocherism.

    I was also a close personal friend of Rothbard’s (not brag, fact) and saw the Mozart playlet once performed at a Libertarian Party convention event. Murray was there but I can’t recall if he played himself or not in that. He had a terrific sense of humor. Raimondo’s excellent book is well worth reading. I knew him pretty well too.

    My Theory: if you get vaccinated with Rand at the proper young age, you gain a lot of benefit and are immune in the future from the excesses of “Objectivism” and cultists. Kinda like going to Catholic grade school, so I hear.

    • Agree: El Dato
  174. Recruit at The University of Wakanda. That is if they allow anybody to pass through their big, beautiful wall.

  175. If just 4% of the black bullies refrained from beating up the occasional studious black student for acting white, there would be far more benefit for all concerned.

  176. @JMcG
    @George Taylor

    It was the black bodies flying that Ethiopian 737 Max that killed tbose black bodies in the back. Make no mistake.

    Replies: @mikeInThe716, @vhrm

    It’s been almost 18 months since that plane was flown nose first into the ground at 700+ mph.

    Where’s the investigation going? The cockpit voice recordings have not been released as far as I know. Although my google and duckduckgo skills are poor right now due to lack of sleep…

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @mikeInThe716

    They never will be. The Amazon plane that was flown nose-first into the ground in Texas last year hasn’t had the investigation released yet either. Apparently the Jamaican co-pilot panicked and pushed the yoke full forward in an attempt to avert a non-existent stall, killing all on board.

  177. @Reg Cæsar

    Boeing CEO pledges a 20 percent increase in black employees
     
    By weight?

    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.

    Replies: @wren, @JimDandy, @Mr. Anon, @TWS, @cynthia curran, @Russ, @Excal

    The following is basically rumour, hearsay, and innuendo, so take it for what it’s worth.

    In 1997, Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas. In most mergers, one of the parties becomes dominant. In this case, McDonnell Douglas, which was a very management-driven company, quickly began running things at Boeing, which had been a very engineering-driven company.

    It is cliche, but true, that management often has trouble with engineering. The most important reason for this is that engineering is fundamentally an artistic discipline, like architecture; and most of the best engineers have an artistic temperament. They cannot be successfully managed by people who do not understand this.

    Unfortunately, most people do not understand this. They assume that engineers are like soldiers, or mechanics, or plumbers, or some combination of the above; but they cannot see these ugly, socially inept, annoying, often flaky people as artists. They do see them as childish, unreasonable, difficult, grossly overpaid, and fundamentally a liability to be minimised. Armed with this ignorance, professional managers with degrees from very fancy schools have destroyed business after business, setting on fire untold amounts of capital and even lives.

    And that’s what’s been going on at Boeing, or so I am told. An engineering-driven company merged with, and became managed by, a company of professional managers. The managers had hated the engineers at McDonnell Douglas, and they hated the engineers at Boeing even more. The move to Chicago was intended to keep marketing and upper management physically separated from the hated engineers, and to make it more difficult for the engineers to bother the important parts of the company.

    “There’s a deal of ruin in a nation”, said Adam Smith. But nations, and Boeings, can be ruined at last, with sustained effort.

    • Thanks: Sam Malone, JackOH, J.Ross, El Dato
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Excal

    The combined company is called Boeing, not even Boeing Mc Donnell, and Mc Donnell Douglas became dominant? Almost universally an acquiring company (There are very few true mergers of equals.) either keeps its own name or there's a compound name with the acquiring company's name first. Could the acquired company's management have staged some kind of palace coup afterwards? I believe the Boeing CEO remained CEO after the acquisition, maybe with the Donnell Douglas CEO briefly as No. 2. BTW, Boeing also acquired Rockwell.

  178. @Mr. Anon

    Boeing CEO Pledges a 20 Percent Increase in Black Employees
     
    How much you wanna bet that they'll get the crappiest jobs too?

    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190719133557-man-climbs-plane-nigeria-intl-0719-full-169.jpg

    Replies: @Negrolphin Pool, @El Dato, @usNthem, @bruce county, @Jim Christian

    Funny pic, good find, Mr. Anon! But this is yet another example of White privilege, no? Consider the pic. No parachute for a black man!

  179. @wren
    @Reg Cæsar

    I liked this opinion.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/

    Replies: @Romanian

    I see no one here posted this older gem, from Asia hawk and Forbes columnist Eamonn Fingleton.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/boeing-goes-to-pieces/

    [MORE]

    The 787 story began more than a decade ago when, in the manner of a man undergoing a mid-life crisis, Boeing suddenly embraced a New Age redefinition of itself: it aspired to be primarily a “systems integrator,” not a manufacturer. According to one online dictionary, the term systems integrator connotes “an individual or company that specializes in building complete computer systems by putting together components from different vendors.” As the commentator Mark Tatge has pointed out, the term suggests a largely service-oriented role similar to that of Dell Computer in the PC industry. (Dell confines itself to the design and marketing of products assembled in East Asia from components supplied under contract by countless independent manufacturers.)

    Wearying of trying to stay ahead of Airbus, already then in the passing lane, Boeing would henceforth delegate many of its most technologically challenging manufacturing tasks to a consortium of three Japanese “Heavies”: Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, and Fuji Heavy Industries. These rank first among equals as Boeing’s so-called Tier 1 suppliers and have been the recipients of much of Boeing’s most advanced know-how.
    ………….
    Dick Nolan, an emeritus professor of Harvard Business School, notes that Boeing’s traditional policy had been to use foreign suppliers merely for what’s called “build-to-print”: they supplied components and subcomponents made to Boeing’s detailed specifications, an arrangement that enabled Boeing to keep to itself much if not all of its serious know-how.

    Even before Boeing redefined itself as a systems integrator, keen observers had noticed a weakening in its resolve to resist Japanese pressure for technology transfers. As recorded by the British author Karl Sabbagh, by the early 1990s Boeing’s willingness to reveal closely held manufacturing secrets to the Japanese became so notorious that Boeing employees vulgarly referred to it as the “open kimono” policy.

    Today, not the least surprising thing about the Dreamliner’s work-share arrangements is that the foreign-made sections arrive in Boeing’s final assembly plant in Seattle not only fully “stuffed” with systems and sub-components—a radical departure from previous arrangements—but already certified and tested. Certification and testing had previously been considered core functions that should never be delegated to foreign partners. In a Harvard Business Review blog, Nolan acerbically commented, “Boeing effectively gave Tier 1 suppliers a large part of its proprietary manual, ‘How to Build a Commercial Airplane,’ a book that its aeronautical engineers have been writing over the last 50 years.”
    ………………
    In outsourcing so much of the Dreamliner, Boeing has flouted the opinion of its own top engineers. The company received a particularly well-argued caution at an in-house conference back in 2001. One of Boeing’s senior engineers, John Hart-Smith, delivered a paper on the dangers of excessive reliance on outside partners. Referring to the American aerospace industry’s ever increasing outsourcing, Hart-Smith asked, “Is it really all that difficult to comprehend that, along with the work involved, the revenue and profit associated with it have also been outsourced?” He added: “One must be able to contribute in some way to products one sells to avoid becoming merely a retailer of other people’s products.”

    Hart-Smith’s views were probably shaped by the fact that he had previously worked for McDonnell Douglas, a once brilliant company that flamed out after decades of increasing reliance on foreign partners. It eventually succumbed to a merger with Boeing in 1997. Hart-Smith had joined McDonnell Douglas at the height of its success in the 1960s, when in many ways it still overshadowed Boeing. He subsequently watched its commercial aircraft business outsource itself to death. A key problem was that designers became so out of touch that they no longer understood basic manufacturing realities.
    ………………
    In discussions of the unintended consequences of globalism, the transfer abroad of valuable production technology is the elephant in the room. It is consistently ignored in all standard theoretical accounts of free trade. In an era when information can move around the world at light speed, this is an oversight of epochal importance. Almost everyone assumes that no matter how fast American industrial know-how leaks abroad, an abundance of new production methods and new industries will keep bubbling up to provide additional sources of prosperity. Not only do people not stop to consider whether this assumption is valid, they don’t even realize they are making an assumption. Web issue image

    Many of America’s most sophisticated competitors do not run their trade policy on a free-market basis, argues Ralph Gomory. By intelligent use of trade barriers, among other things, they can hope to finagle advanced production technologies out of the United States. Employers in such nations are often under considerable pressure—political, economic, and societal—to keep their own most advanced production technologies at home and well away from the risk of theft by foreign rivals.

    • Thanks: wren, El Dato
  180. @mikeInThe716
    @JMcG

    It's been almost 18 months since that plane was flown nose first into the ground at 700+ mph.

    Where's the investigation going? The cockpit voice recordings have not been released as far as I know. Although my google and duckduckgo skills are poor right now due to lack of sleep...

    Replies: @JMcG

    They never will be. The Amazon plane that was flown nose-first into the ground in Texas last year hasn’t had the investigation released yet either. Apparently the Jamaican co-pilot panicked and pushed the yoke full forward in an attempt to avert a non-existent stall, killing all on board.

  181. @Franz Liszt von Raiding
    Plaque engineers? How many would you have to call at random who would know how to evaluate a basic integral like Exp-(x)^2 from zero to infinity? Compare this to Asians or WHITES. “White Supremacy” what am I supposed to think if you go by the HISTORICAL RECORD? They interbred with Neanderthals who had huge cranial volumes so of course they have staggering analytic capabilities. Three WHITE men discovered the foundation of modern math: Calculus. Archimedes (discovered integral Calc. only but hey it was 20 centuries before the other two) Leibniz and of course Sir Isaac Newton.
    Jazz and basketball supremacy go to Plaques and that’s fine to say. Shaming supremacy goes to Japanese and communism supremacy to the Chinese. Why is it so bad to say a group does so much good? Which group saves the most babies daily? Built the most hospitals and schools? Started the most charities? Given the most to charity? Made the discoveries and inventions that make life so much better : Electromagnetism, airplanes, automobiles, Air conditioning, phone, tv, internet, etc...

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind

    “evaluate a basic integral like Exp-(x)^2 from zero to infinity?”

    Um, one half the square root of pi?

    Most engineers don’t know how to evaluate that particular integral and they revert to looking the answer up in a book or online? It is not simple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_integral), and it was probably covered in a required math course for an engineering degree, but they slept through the lecture by the Asian-accented math TA on that topic. The dark secret of the profession is that engineers know that math is good for you, but they hate it anyway. Kind of like Brussel sprouts?

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Inquiring Mind

    I would have to reactivate long-decayed sections of my mind to do this continuous function witchery. Discrete math is where it's at.

    Anyway, symbolic integrators should be all the rage by now.

    https://www.symbolab.com/solver/integral-calculator/%5Cint%5E%7B%5Cinfty%7D_%7B0%20%7D%20exp%5Cleft(-%5Cleft(x%C2%B2%5Cright)%5Cright)dx

  182. The once-stellar company that voluntarily burnt itself to demonstrate how important priorities are. The one that surrendered once locked-up markets in a self-repeating unforced error. It’s almost like there’s a centrally ordained agenda and what the real masters want is what policy will be no matter how much evidence piles up that it would be a bad idea.

  183. anon[233] • Disclaimer says:

    Is anyone else disgusted with grown men who are cry-babies about dressing properly?

    That pic of Dave Calhoun, the head of freakin’ Boeing, looking very Beta-Boy-Jeb-Bushit with the stupid friggin’ open collar.

    Dave, in your place on the corporate ladder, wear a freaking tie.

    Look like you are in charge of a major industrial company, instead of looking like an associate pastor at a medium-sized Baptist church.

  184. @Anonymous
    Does that mean less dependence on immigrants?

    Replies: @duncsbaby, @Paleo Liberal, @EdwardM

    No, I think it means insourcing janitorial services.

  185. @Russ
    @Reg Cæsar


    I always wondered why they moved to Chicago. Not exactly a tax haven or light regulatory hand. Not to mention a political culture next to which (the other) Washington seems Snow White.
     
    IIRC, Chicago is also the corporate home to American Airlines, so proximity to a major customer was cited back in 1996 by BA.

    Speaking of Snow White CHAZ/CHOP, one wonders how many work units must move from WA to SC to achieve this goal just through broader population demographics.

    Also ironic in that I'm told a broader round of voluntary layoff "opportunities" was unleashed at BA Friday.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    IIRC, Chicago is also the corporate home to American Airlines, so proximity to a major customer was cited back in 1996 by BA.

    AA’s headquarters are in Fort Worth, TX. I believe you’re thinking of United Airlines.

  186. @David Davenport
    @Hibernian

    Why not St. Louis, home of the Mc Donnell fighter plane operations?

    Boeing currently has a factory in St. Louis. F-15's are assembled there. It's a former MacDonald Douglas plant.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Agreed. My sister lives there, and I visit from time to time, and also it’s a stopover for me sometimes on SW Airlines to the West Coast. I’ve seen their buildings on the other side of the runway from the terminal. I should have been more clear and said “former McDonnell, now Boeing, fighter plane operations.” Why have a stand alone skeleton HQ in Chicago when you have manufacturing operations in a suburban location? (Yes, I know, it’s a deteriorating suburban area.) Put the HQ in still very nice western suburbs of St.L. Downtown might have been a mistake if they had done it. Do something like Lockheed Martin did when they established themselves in Bethesda MD.

  187. @Excal
    @Reg Cæsar

    The following is basically rumour, hearsay, and innuendo, so take it for what it's worth.

    In 1997, Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas. In most mergers, one of the parties becomes dominant. In this case, McDonnell Douglas, which was a very management-driven company, quickly began running things at Boeing, which had been a very engineering-driven company.

    It is cliche, but true, that management often has trouble with engineering. The most important reason for this is that engineering is fundamentally an artistic discipline, like architecture; and most of the best engineers have an artistic temperament. They cannot be successfully managed by people who do not understand this.

    Unfortunately, most people do not understand this. They assume that engineers are like soldiers, or mechanics, or plumbers, or some combination of the above; but they cannot see these ugly, socially inept, annoying, often flaky people as artists. They do see them as childish, unreasonable, difficult, grossly overpaid, and fundamentally a liability to be minimised. Armed with this ignorance, professional managers with degrees from very fancy schools have destroyed business after business, setting on fire untold amounts of capital and even lives.

    And that's what's been going on at Boeing, or so I am told. An engineering-driven company merged with, and became managed by, a company of professional managers. The managers had hated the engineers at McDonnell Douglas, and they hated the engineers at Boeing even more. The move to Chicago was intended to keep marketing and upper management physically separated from the hated engineers, and to make it more difficult for the engineers to bother the important parts of the company.

    "There's a deal of ruin in a nation", said Adam Smith. But nations, and Boeings, can be ruined at last, with sustained effort.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    The combined company is called Boeing, not even Boeing Mc Donnell, and Mc Donnell Douglas became dominant? Almost universally an acquiring company (There are very few true mergers of equals.) either keeps its own name or there’s a compound name with the acquiring company’s name first. Could the acquired company’s management have staged some kind of palace coup afterwards? I believe the Boeing CEO remained CEO after the acquisition, maybe with the Donnell Douglas CEO briefly as No. 2. BTW, Boeing also acquired Rockwell.

  188. The combined company is called Boeing, not even Boeing Mc Donnell, and Mc Donnell Douglas became dominant?

    Not at all unusual, and in this case, it made good sense: the Boeing brand was (and still is) very powerful, while McDonnell Douglas was known mostly to frequent flyers and airplane enthusiasts.

    There are many more examples of this kind of thing. For instance, the 1999 merger of Exxon and Mobil — both highly powerful brands — was presented as an equal combination; but the joke in the company was that while the new name was spelled “ExxonMobil”, the Mobil was silent.

  189. @Inquiring Mind
    @Franz Liszt von Raiding

    "evaluate a basic integral like Exp-(x)^2 from zero to infinity?"

    Um, one half the square root of pi?

    Most engineers don't know how to evaluate that particular integral and they revert to looking the answer up in a book or online? It is not simple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_integral), and it was probably covered in a required math course for an engineering degree, but they slept through the lecture by the Asian-accented math TA on that topic. The dark secret of the profession is that engineers know that math is good for you, but they hate it anyway. Kind of like Brussel sprouts?

    Replies: @El Dato

    I would have to reactivate long-decayed sections of my mind to do this continuous function witchery. Discrete math is where it’s at.

    Anyway, symbolic integrators should be all the rage by now.

    https://www.symbolab.com/solver/integral-calculator/%5Cint%5E%7B%5Cinfty%7D_%7B0%20%7D%20exp%5Cleft(-%5Cleft(x%C2%B2%5Cright)%5Cright)dx

  190. @AnotherDad
    @trelane


    Short Boeing. Long Comac.
     
    Only in the very, very long run.

    Without going book length, the detribalizing (marry the girl next door) of white Europeans under Christianity created a high trust, high empathy people. This capability of whites to do "trust at scale" is what enabled Europeans to create nation state solidarity which with European science/tech allowed them to go out, colonize and dominate the world.

    The Japanese apparently developed a high trust at scale culture through some other means (not involving Christianity or high empathy). And I'd have little issue flying a Japanese designed/built airliner.

    But the Chinese simply don't have it. They are smart. But while a lot of them are individually first rate people ... as society they are low trust. It's more like dealing with a billion man middle man minority--everyone just trying to get over on you.

    There are two issues:

    1) Fraud, corruption.
    Not every Chinese, but enough, will try and cheat. You'll start building planes and then find out your last years worth of planes may or may not have bolts that don't meet the spec because the supplier decided to cheat to make himself an extra $10,000 bucks. Again, low trust, middle-man-minority get-over mentality.

    2) Confucianism / "Tall peg is hammered down"ism.
    There's a deep strain of know-your-placeism, deference to your proper superiors. This has its appropriate place, but to build something big and complex you also need people willing to squawk, call bullshit, jump up and down when things are off track. Sticking one's neck out, standing on principle, a sense of "right thing to do" is not something Chinese are prone to do.

    Debacles like launching the shuttle when it was clearly too cold for it's O-rings because the big-shots wanted it, or like the 737MAX-MACS kludge/crashes are precisely the sort of disasters Chinese aerospace will be prone to.

    ~~

    Long run, with minoritarianism, immigrationism ruling the West, there's no question that the West's trendline--including for its technology companies--is negative.

    But despite the Chinese having (probably) a higher spatial IQ than whites, Chinese cultural traits are ill suited to ferreting out and fixing problems and bad designs/decisions. So they have a long ways--requiring some cultural fixes--to go.

    Replies: @anecdeedy

    I’m Chinese and AnotherDad’s assessment of Chinese people is accurate in my opinion.

    • Thanks: Jim Don Bob, JackOH
  191. @JMcG
    @George Taylor

    It was the black bodies flying that Ethiopian 737 Max that killed tbose black bodies in the back. Make no mistake.

    Replies: @mikeInThe716, @vhrm

    It was the black bodies flying that Ethiopian 737 Max that killed tbose black bodies in the back. Make no mistake.

    Some French bodies flying an Airbus A330 killed a bunch of French and Brazilian bodies in (arguably) much less difficult circumstances:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

    And a random middle aged white american body with a good 3400 hours managed to stall a turboprop on approach and kill a bunch of mostly american bodies. (although to be somewhat fair, apparently the regional airlines’ training back then left a lot to be desired in this area of approach stalls to the point where the training might have caused this (but overemphasizing not losing altitude in a stall recovery (which is nigh impossible) and this was also in the worst old days in terms of crew rest requirements (or lack thereof).. both subjects where significant changes were made in the US in large part due to this accident)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407

  192. @Andrei Martyanov
    @International Jew


    This is great news for China’s budding aircraft industry.
     
    China has many wonderful achievements, commercial aerospace (or even military one) is not one of them. Hence CR-929, while COMAC-919 is not a competitive aircraft and by a long shot.

    Replies: @gmachine1729

    A Chinese in microelectronics tells me that J-20 is two generations ahead of Su-35. He says that Russia’s industry was not at the level of West post WWII due to the lower starting point. He says that though Soviets first put a satellite and man space, America was a year later was able to do it much more cheaply. The lower quality, higher cost, and lower volumes of consumer products is most indicative of the gap with respect to West and Japan.

    He said that Russia today is basically not at all player in microelectronics, especially the fabrication aspect. According to him, why could the USSR and PRC not keep up with West in microelectronics? Because the industrial foundation was behind, especially in precision/chemical engineering. Integrated circuit fabrication has extremely high quality and material purity demands. So from 1970s on once West and Japan, transitioned to integrated circuits mass manufactured, USSR and PRC were left far behind. PRC’s first transistor computer was 1964, USSR’s was early 60s. It was only early 70s when PRC had its first integrated circuit computer, which according to him was of partially reverse engineered design. By the 80s, when West and Japanese integrated circuits became too complex, reverse engineering was no longer an option. And much of the photolithography was still manual, with low rates of sufficient quality. But China was able to from 70s on obtain technology from West in chemical industry and microelectronics, USSR’s weak points.

    He thinks that in face of these disadvantages, Russia’s main advantage is size and natural resources, and also combined with the circumstance, the economic/political system. Because of that, even if their stuff is lower quality and more expensive to produce, they are still able to manufacture larger numbers. He says missiles and nuclear weapons are not that hard. They are one time, and do not need to be durable like cars or airplanes, with very high materials quality requirement. He says that in the 1950s, some PRC technologies particularly in optics and electronics, were actually obtained from East Germany and Japan, which were in those more advanced than the USSR.

    Of course, he also thinks that America has turned to shit, de-industrialized, forgotten a lot of stuff it used to know.

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