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From the New York Times news section:
Tyre Nichols Beating Opens a Complex Conversation on Race and Policing
The five officers charged with the murder of the young Black man are also Black, complicating the anguish and efforts at police reform.
By Clyde McGrady
Jan. 28, 2023The killing of Tyre Nichols, a 29-year-old Black man in Memphis, at the hands of police has prompted outrage and condemnation from racial justice activists, police reform advocates and law enforcement officials, including the chief of the Memphis Police Department, a Black woman who lobbied for policing changes in the wake of George Floyd’s murder.
The fact that the five officers charged with Mr. Nichols’s murder are Black complicates the anguish. It has also brought into focus what many Black people have said is frequently lost in police brutality cases involving white officers and Black victims: that problems of race and policing are a function of an entrenched police culture of aggression and dehumanization of Black people more than of interpersonal racism. It is the system and the tactics that foster racism and violence, they say, rather than the specific racial identities of officers.
Listen, people, Systemic Racism is not a conspiracy theory. We are not saying that people are conspiring together in their self-interest, we are saying that people are not conspiring together in their disinterest. Or something. Have you read Foucault? It all makes sense if you keep in mind who are the Good People and who are the Bad People.
“It’s not racism driving this, it’s culturism,” Robert M. Sausedo, the head of a Los Angeles nonprofit formed after the Rodney King beating in 1991, said after watching the video of Mr. Nichols’s beating Friday night.
… “Blackness doesn’t shield you from all of the forces that make police violence possible,” Mr. Forman said. “What are the theories of policing and styles of policing, the training that police receive? All of those dynamics that propel violence and brutality are more powerful than the race of the officer.”
Amber Sherman, an activist and organizer working with the Nichols family as they push for policy changes in the police, said that racism is a clear factor in policing when you look at who the victims of police violence are, not the race of the officers.
Officers of all races “are indoctrinated into a practice that sees Black people and brown people as less than,” Ms. Sherman said. …
Others expressed disappointment that Black officers did not have more empathy as well as concern that the race of the officers would muddle the issue of entrenched police violence against Black people.
“As an African American, it’s unfortunate that because the officers are Black, people are going to say violence against Blacks is not racially motivated,” said Joel Kellum, 57, a public school teacher in New York City.
“Black cops will do that to Black perps, too,” Mr. Kellum added. “It’s complicated and it’s sad.”
Police reform advocates have long argued that departments should more accurately reflect the demographics of the communities they police as a way to improve policing and help build trust in those communities. In Memphis, 65 percent of the population is Black, and so is 58 percent of its police force.
If only the Memphis PD were 65/58th more black, this wouldn’t have happened!
“We have a very simplistic way of approaching the problem of policing and believing that representation is some kind of silver bullet,” said Professor Jody Armour, a University of Southern California law professor who studies racial justice. “It’s not just a Black and white issue, but a Black and blue one. And when you put on that blue uniform, it often becomes the primary identity that drowns out any other identities that might compete with it.”
Mr. Armour said the Memphis incident shows that it is a “fairy tale” to think that adding more members of a marginalized group in the police will lead to more just and fairer treatment of members of that group.
D’Zhane Parker, of the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, one of the organizations associated with the Black Lives Matter movement, renewed a call to defund the police, releasing a statement that said the video of Mr. Nichols’s beating “affirms what we’ve known all along: Reform doesn’t work. Incremental progress is too slow. Diversifying a police department will not work.”
Hence, D’Zhane wants us to go back to Lynch Law.
… The fact that Mr. Nichols was assaulted by Black officers “doesn’t mean that we should abandon what’s critical like diversifying police departments,” said Miriam Krinsky, a former prosecutor who is now executive director of Fair and Just Prosecution. “Individuals who come from communities that are most policed and at times over policed have a right to expect that those who we charge to keep them safe and build their trust come from, and have a connection to, those communities.”
Still Ms. Krinsky acknowledged that police reform has to go beyond diversity. “Because if we hire the right people, but then the culture of the organization, and how they’re trained, and the tone and values that are modeled aren’t the right ones — just having the right people alone isn’t going to be a solution to some of the concerns about police behavior.”
For some Black police reform advocates, the fact that the officers involved are Black has been especially wrenching.
“I think it is really hard to stomach as a Black person when you see everyone involved in the situation is Black,” said Max Markham, of Center for Policing Equity, a group that addresses racial disparities in policing. “Not that it would make you feel better if they were white,” he added.
He is glad the officers were charged swiftly but is disheartened that they may add to the number of incarcerated Black men.
“We have so many Black folks in jail. We have too many Black folks who have been killed,” Mr. Markham said.
Even the speed with which the five officers were charged has elicited complex reactions of both applause and concern that white officers have been treated differently under similar circumstances.
“Let’s be honest, let’s think about this — this is not the first time we saw police officers committing crimes and engaging in excessive, brutal force against Black people in America who are unarmed, but we have never seen swift justice like this,” Mr. Crump, the Nichols family attorney, said.
“We have to make the point exceedingly clear: We now have a blueprint, America, and we won’t accept less going forward in the future,” he said. “We won’t have Black officers treated differently than white officers. We want equal justice under the law.”
… Ms. Sherman, the activist working with the Nichols family, supports the prosecution of the officers. But, she says, it is also another way that she sees racism at work.
“At the end of the day, the city and the Police Department reminded them that they are Black men,” Ms. Sherman said, “and they will treat them less than, just like they treated Tyre, and make sure they fire them immediately and prosecute them.”
In downtown Memphis on Friday, Darell Johnson, a contractor, was using a drill to attach plywood to the windows of a loan agency building in case protests took a destructive turn, but by late Friday night they had ended peacefully. Mr. Johnson, 44, who is Black and has lived in Memphis for two decades, said that he was more focused on the tragedy of Mr. Nichols’s death than the fact that the five charged officers were Black. …
Robert Chiarito, Douglas Morino, Mitch Smith, Vik Jolly, Jessica Jaglois, Rick Rojas, Remy Tumin, Michael D. Regan, Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs and Wesley Parnell contributed reporting.
Clyde McGrady is a national correspondent covering race from Washington. He previously covered race and identity for The Washington Post. @CAMcGrady
It’s almost as if the New York Times assigned 11 reporters to this story because they were hoping for race riots. But it’s January, so the Mostly Peaceful Protesters would rather watch TV.
Speaking of antiquarianism, from the NYT opinions section:
Violent History Echoes in the Killing of Tyre Nichols
Jan. 28, 2023By Emily Yellin
Ms. Yellin is a Memphis-based journalist who is collaborating with the Rev. James Lawson Jr. on his forthcoming memoir.
MEMPHIS — On April 3, 1968 …
This month, Tyre Nichols …
Three years after Mr. Payne’s 1968 killing, several Memphis law enforcement officers were charged in connection with the murder of Elton Hayes, a Black 17-year-old who was beaten to death in a ditch after a high-speed chase. (Twenty years later, the police beating of Rodney King in Los Angeles had similarities to that case.) Mr. Hayes’s killing in 1971 ignited five days of uprisings in Memphis. The officers were acquitted.
In 1974 …
The toxic line reaches much farther back, to 1866 …
Twenty-six years later, in 1892
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It’s as if people who deal with criminals and their victims all the time have different values than scum who apologize for criminals……
The next leaf in the poison bud of intersectionality is about to bloom. Black over white, female over male, make-believe/performative gender over organic sexuality, and soon criminality over law-abidingness and decency.
This will happen soon and in fact is nothing new under the sun. The era of relative good-feeling, safety, and falling crime we grew accustomed to from, say, 1993 to 2014 will prove a cyclical aberration as overcredenutialed upper middle class sh!tlibs take up the same “criminals are the victims of society” clarion their grandparents did in the DIRTY HARRY, MAGNUM FORCE, TAXI DRIVER 60’s and 70’s .
The Defund/“New Jim Crow” narrative is dangerous and is killing thousands, if the GOP majority actually had thinking power they’d hold hearings with known bipartisan people (Bloomberg, Heather MacDonald, etc) opposed to the fallacious propaganda pushed out in sociology classes throughout the country. With a credible enough lens to get by the centrists could be made curriculum material in many states with a blue-ribbon report and documentary supplement for high schools. Inoculating those entering college against this much more useful than any snipe hunt against Hunter Biden. Sadly GOP not interested in addressing the real issues.Replies: @That Would Be Telling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajgeaOt_HTQReplies: @Cool Daddy Jimbo, @Bill Jones
Therefore police arrest blacks disproportionately.
Therefore the concept of 'crime' must be abolished because it's racist.
.
Modern American Logic. But the process is already underway.
Dear NYT Suggestion Box:
I’ve subscribed to your paper all my life, and love it more than I ever have. You’re the greatest! I also applaud your ongoing efforts to adapt to the digital age by trimming costs.
Today’s article “Tyre Nichols Beating Opens a Complex Conversation on Race and Policing” hit all the important notes, and quite right to place it in the News section. Which leads to my suggestion: the “Opinion” section is outmoded. Scrapping it would streamline the paper and give you the opportunity to lay off a few more editorial underlings. Win-win!
Just a thought.
Complex? It was a five-alarm chimpout.
(By the way, does anyone know if “chimpout” should be capitalized? Is there a link to the NYT’s style guide?)
I’m guessing that being the head of a racial grievance nonprofit is very profitable.
That’s the big problem with most of this “activism”… it’s just grifting and as such doesn’t care much about solving problems as much as it cares about making a consistent living off them. The fact that as a racial grievance hammer they see every problem as a racist nail is a feature, not a bug.
There sure as hell would have been if the cops had been white. This country would be burning from coast-to-coast today.
And you want to know why? Because the leftist Establishment endorses it, that’s why. Racial mob violence against whites is officially approved by the Regime.
There is no violence today because five black cops in a black city with a black female police chief beating a black to death does not fit the Official Party Line that all whites are evil and must pay.
I knew these officers were in deep, deep trouble, and must be guilty as sin when the first story I read had a) the officers were fired immediately and b) their union rep didn’t step up. When the police union doesn’t back you up… ’nuff said.
Everyone knows it. That’s why they stay away from certain areas.
You know who knows it the most? The Mean White Ladies (MWLs) who teach anti-whitism in school. The MWLs are terrified of going into “urban” areas yet they pretend to be race-blind.
It’s a sham. They aren’t “nice”. They’re cruel.
You mean it doesn’t matter what the race is of police and public officials when it comes to the treatment of black criminals?
Who could have possibly imagined that?
Cycle of societal decay, written in BASIC:
100 Left proposes a stupid policy to address problem X.
200 Right calls the plan stupid and says it won’t solve problem X.
300 Left’s solution is implemented, makes problem X worse.
400 Left says we didn’t try hard enough and doubles down on the solution.
500 Increment X
600 GOTO 100
Look on the bright side, we won’t have to hear any more of those insufferably long Bob Dylan ballads about how the cops pinned it on the black guy! Because 1) these cops ain’t catching nobody! And 2) even if they did, it can’t be racist!
One of the complexities about black Americans that is resolutely ignored is the cost black behavior and underperformance imposes on society, even though I would think it wouldn’t be too difficult for an enterprising academic to quantify. Obviously there is the much higher utilization of various social welfare programs – on some blacks will be outright majority consumers, but even on a per capita basis they will win out. Same is true for the costs of running the justice system, from deployment of police personnel and resources, courts, and incarceration. Health care – I remember reading that every shooting victim in Chicago costs an average of $80K in medical attention, and there are thousands each year. The delta in potential real estate value and tax assessments in areas where blacks are a significant present. Share of federal income taxes paid…frankly there probably isn’t a single metric in which having blacks involved could be considered a value add proposition.
It’s really quite remarkable how none of this can be openly discussed at all – I can recall when Clinton first ran for office the subject of black crime and welfare dependency was something Democrats openly debated, and what to do about it. To some extent I think it is because back then there were still a fair number of white working class/urban Democrats who had to live with black dysfunction daily, whereas they are gone and replaced by white college graduates who largely stay the hell away from areas where they would have to interact with blacks on a daily basis or send their kids to the same school On the other hand, academia and newsrooms have been so thoroughly infiltrated by people who have been brought up on intersectionality and CRT (whether they actually realize this) that the myriad instances of in-your-face black misbehavior is explained away by the voodoo of white supremacy, a concept that cannot be really proven but just accepted.
https://www.unz.com/isteve/kamalas-13-62-meme/#comment-5461346
tl;dr: something north of $1 trillion/year.Replies: @Arclight
Could one suppose that what happened in Memphis is a Ramparts-type effect?
That the Memphis PD recruited gang members into their ranks, who then did what gang members do?
A minor local police event becomes splashed over the national news day after day. These media people are fomenting riots and destruction, basically yelling Fire in a crowded theater, or like when a radical islamic preacher calls for violent jihad. In a decent country they would be jailed for attempting to start violence, and their de-facto terrorist orgs would be shut down.
No, for you it sure wouldn’t. How could you get quoted in the NY Times or make any money off a story nobody would hear about?
No, we don’t have them anymore. Often, it’s for the best.
Agreed.
(And in other news, the sun rose in the east this morning). D’Zhane “renews” his call every chance he can get.
And the Memphis PD did immediately disband the unit to which the officers belonged, which was a special task force assigned to reduce crime in high crime areas. Ergo, crime in those areas will now go up.
However, my impression is that except for BLM and antifa, “defund the police” is now (unlike the aftermath of Floyd) a dead letter among mainstream liberal white Democrats – it’s a proven loser at the ballot box and white liberals don’t want their cities to be made into unlivable hell holes. (Blacks are generally OK with defund the police). We are not going to repeat the Floyd mass hysteria again. Once was enough.
Of course, thank goodness that these five cops were black. This (and the chilly weather) is the real reason that the cities of America are not on fire again. Five white cops and another Undocumented Shopping Holiday would have been declared.
Too late.
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/08/29/biden-crime-prevention-policing-plan
Part of the reason for the turnaround was accurate NYT reporting about how unpopular “defund the police” really was, not least among black people.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/us/politics/minneapolis-defund-police.html
This is a good example of mainstream media helping Democrats stay in touch with reality. Right wing media rarely performs that function for Republicans, as Hanania pointed out.
I just watched the video. You might as well say he killed himself. As others have pointed out, someone needs to tell black Americans that you can’t just walk away from the cops after telling them to fuck off. And saying, “Damn, man, I ain’t done nothing wrong,” isn’t going to do you any good when you resist arrest.
Obviously there is the much higher utilization of various social welfare programs – on some blacks will be outright majority consumers,
Possibly some state and local level programs, possible some niche program you’d find if you rummaged around in the HHS, HUD, or Education budget.
About 50% of all AFDC recipients ca. 1992 were black; TANF is a much smaller program and the black share of beneficiaries has tended to be south of 40%. Section 8’s beneficiaries are about 45% black (about 2.5% of the black population lives in Section 8 households).Medicaid beneficiaries are, last I checked, about 38% black. I think about 25% of all SNAP beneficiaries are black. The SSI rolls are (IIRC) about 21% black. IIRC, unemployment compensation rolls are about 17% black. Social Security Disability is around 13% black. In re Social Security retirement and Medicare, the black share of beneficiaries is about 9%.
I've subscribed to your paper all my life, and love it more than I ever have. You're the greatest! I also applaud your ongoing efforts to adapt to the digital age by trimming costs.
Today's article "Tyre Nichols Beating Opens a Complex Conversation on Race and Policing" hit all the important notes, and quite right to place it in the News section. Which leads to my suggestion: the "Opinion" section is outmoded. Scrapping it would streamline the paper and give you the opportunity to lay off a few more editorial underlings. Win-win!
Just a thought.Replies: @Jack D
Why is it that a “Conversation on Race” never resembles an actual conversation but is more like a Maoist struggle session? Doesn’t a “conversation” imply a discussion with two sides and not a lecture? When did the meaning of the word “conversation” take on such Orwellian tones?
Everyone who is quoted in this “conversation” in the NY Times seems to agree that the police (which we are now conveniently reminded includes black police) have a culture of aggression and that blacks are the chosen targets of the police. Where is the POV of the police themselves? Do the police have any rational reason to be concerned for their safety when they stop a black man, more so than with a white? Does hiring a lot of black officers make it MORE likely that they will beat the crap out of other blacks? Seems like a pretty one sided conversation to me.
Wokesters keep saying we need to have "the uncomfortable conversations," but as soon as they hear discomforting facts, they REEEEEEE. Everything they say is calculated lies.Replies: @David In TN
When women entered the conversation.
It would be more accurate to say that, of all the people I contact who can be objectively articulated as representing safety risks, black people are over represented by quite a bit. But even there, it's a little more subtle. The most "dangerous" black guys, old school gangsters, are usually not that dangerous because they've been stopped more times than you can count and they know exactly how the program goes. They might still shoot you, but they're not going to freak out first and it'll be for a specific reason. No kidding, if I had my choice between a traffic stop on a car full of 40 year old guys on paper for murder and a car full of 17 year old Somali kids with no criminal record, give me the OGs.
All of that said, this specific incident hasn't got anything to do with that. It's a shitshow from the word Go. I don't know enough about national policing to rank my agency among them, but I hardly feel like we're a bunch of all stars. If you showed any part of this video to a competent cop, totally absent the fact that it ended the way it did, they'd tell you every cop in it is comically inept. Not just cruel or aggressive, just totally incompetent. The use of tools (pepper, baton, taser) is completely idiotic and counterproductive. Seriously, I'm not a white woman, but I Just Can't Even.Depends entirely on how many you need, I think. It's kind of a joke in my agency that most of the "black" cops we hire are basically Oreos, as the old slander goes. In my experience, they pan out exactly like you'd expect them to. The ones who came from careers in the financial sector act like that, the ones who "escaped" the ghetto act like that. On the whole, an unimpressive lot, but if you only needed a few and were paying well (as a lot of west coast agencies do) you might do okay. If you need a lot and are paying $20/ hour, I'd be skeptical. If the question is propensity to this kind of violence, I can't say from my experience. What's in this video is so far out of my frame of reference that I'd have thought it was happening in Africa. There is literally no part of it that I can imagine any cop I work with, regardless of skin color, doing. Not just because it's "bad", but because it's stupid.
I would say, to address something Sailer has written, that I'm really skeptical of the value of diversity in agencies. Mine is probably 10%ish black, but it's not like those cops get sent to calls involving black people or assigned to majority black beats. When me and another white cop are on a call with a black suspect, do we somehow give better service because there's this other cop I know who is also black? I've never seen a black suspect who seemed especially impressed that he was getting arrested by a black cop. And how much of a service is it to the black cop when you promote him years before he's ready? One thing about this job, it's really, really hard to hide your incompetence from your co workers.
Anyhow, that's my two cents. For my part, being a GenXer, I enjoy interacting with successful black people. Also, I absolutely dread every call I get sent to involving black people (which is often more than half the calls I go to in my lily-white beat). At this point, near the end of my career, the only people I hate interacting with more than black people are wealthy white people.Replies: @John Johnson, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob, @Mike Tre
Social security, Medicare and unemployment are partly social welfare programs but they are mainly a system of mandatory insurance and pension contributions and it’s not appropriate to classify them along with say Section 8 where the beneficiaries only draw benefits and never pay in anything. So once you exclude those, blacks draw on social welfare programs at rates varying from 3 or 4x their population representation down to 2x or so.
Of course social security is going to be disproportionately white because old people are disproportionately white – the country used to be whiter and blacks die at an earlier age. It would be interesting though to do an analysis of whether blacks were disproportionately drawing from the system anyway – the social welfare aspect of SS is that low income earners get more pension than they deserve on an actuarial basis based upon the amount that they have paid in and high income earners get less. And since Medicare premiums paid in are based on a % of income but everyone gets the same Medicare coverage, ditto.
Note, SSI has some elderly people on the rolls, but it's mostly people who were disabled prior to age 30 and it's actual function is to supplement what is supplied to such people by relatives or local agencies; SSI benefits are too modest to allow anyone to live independently. Blacks are more likely to qualify for it due to a feature you lot harp on every day in other contexts: a larger share of the black population has an IQ below 60 or an IQ below 70 conjoined to some other disability. SNAP, housing subsidies, and Medicaid for medical expenditures are all means-tested programs. They have proportionately more blacks on the rolls for a menu of reasons, but the most salient among them is that a larger share of the black population is below the income thresh-hold to qualify. To some extent, that's because the black lumpenproletariat is proportionately larger (15% of the total rather than 3%), but the principal reason for that is that about 1/2 the black working population have low paying service jobs and (with few exceptions) have those jobs all their life. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to complain that they took the money you left on the table for them.Replies: @Jack D, @John Johnson, @AnotherDad
“Why is it that a “Conversation on Race” never resembles an actual conversation but is more like a Maoist struggle session?”
Wokesters keep saying we need to have “the uncomfortable conversations,” but as soon as they hear discomforting facts, they REEEEEEE. Everything they say is calculated lies.
In the latter, in Nashville, an angelic 22-year old black mile fired six shots into Caitlyn Kaufman's car because she passed them and supposedly "cut them off." The defendant testified, admitted to firing the shots. He "just reacted."
Where is the national conversation?Replies: @Ben the Layabout
“It’s complicated.” = “It’s not complicated; we are lying.”
Remember, this is the newspaper Richard Hanania says is mostly trustworthy.
Clyde McGrady at the Washington Post before he was poached by the NYT:
Black communities should be policed by black cops. Every white officer should be paired up with a black cop and the white cop should step aside and let the black one do all of the brutality if the perp is black.
I know it sounds ridiculous, but here we are.
So glad to see someone move on from Whiteness. Maybe there’s hope.
Like snitches get stiches? Baby daddies? Spray and Pray?
“Individuals who come from communities that are most policed and at times over policed have a right to expect that those who we charge to keep them safe and build their trust come from, and have a connection to, those communities.”
This makes some sense, but will never happen. How would, e.g., black Suffolk County Police (Long Island) officers react when they are all assigned to patrol shithole areas like Wyandanch and North Bellport while the whites spend their careers in tonier and more peaceful communities like St. James and Stony Brook?
Steve,
I think the black cops are learning how quickly progressives/liberals will throw them or anyone else under the bus to maintain their priors. Much like the President of the University of Missouri who was appointed by a Democrat governor of Missouri was thrown under the bus when black students began to protest, the black cops have now realized that there is no one to defend them because the left hates cops and the right has zero reason to defend black cops.
Blacks are overrepresented on disability and workman’s comp disability.
This will happen soon and in fact is nothing new under the sun. The era of relative good-feeling, safety, and falling crime we grew accustomed to from, say, 1993 to 2014 will prove a cyclical aberration as overcredenutialed upper middle class sh!tlibs take up the same “criminals are the victims of society” clarion their grandparents did in the DIRTY HARRY, MAGNUM FORCE, TAXI DRIVER 60’s and 70’s .Replies: @Sun Reader, @Joe Stalin, @CalCooledge
Indeed the Guliani era of reduced crime came to a close long ago now, obviously main culprit the Democrats with defund policies and appealing to the base instincts of their base. Reckon SS would think pointless but an attempt to promote culture of enterprise and hard work, education among underclass has to go with dramatic strengthening of sentencing for illegal gun ownership and an end to equity agenda. Telling people that by birth they are doomed to their status ensures laziness and resentment among people of all races, as the woke have exploited, except they blame systemic racism. Our ruling class has lost its nerve and promotion of the vigorous virtues (Thatcher), mainstream media coverage trying to gin up resentful narratives especially egregious.
The Defund/“New Jim Crow” narrative is dangerous and is killing thousands, if the GOP majority actually had thinking power they’d hold hearings with known bipartisan people (Bloomberg, Heather MacDonald, etc) opposed to the fallacious propaganda pushed out in sociology classes throughout the country. With a credible enough lens to get by the centrists could be made curriculum material in many states with a blue-ribbon report and documentary supplement for high schools. Inoculating those entering college against this much more useful than any snipe hunt against Hunter Biden. Sadly GOP not interested in addressing the real issues.
By that I mean US flyover country where this happened. The very idea of "illegal gun ownership" is much less of a thing in the US outside of the usual Blue hellholes. In Tennessee you don't need any permission from the state to do anything normal and legal with a gun, including carrying it. The state just settled a lawsuit to include 18-20 year olds in that.
There are wrinkles in that age range in terms of legal purchases, more restrictions to buy from a gun store, and of course it's generally illegal below age 18 and that's no small problem, but here we have a 29 year old who as of yet no one is reporting as having a criminal record. Being a felon is of course also a disqualifier, but for that obviously the person has to get a first bite of the criminal apple.
Social security, Medicare and unemployment are partly social welfare programs but they are mainly a system of mandatory insurance and pension contributions and it’s not appropriate to classify them along with say Section 8 where the beneficiaries only draw benefits and never pay in anything. So once you exclude those, blacks draw on social welfare programs at rates varying from 3 or 4x their population representation down to 2x or so.
Uh huh.
Medicaid is the only program of the sort that irks you that is contextually large. Housing subsidies, food subsidies, SSI, TANF &c. feature expenditure levels 5-10% of those of Social Security and Medicare.
As for Medicaid, one thing it does is finance long term care. About 40% of each cohort shuffling off each year has some time in long-term care. The wealthy among them can get along without applying for Medicaid and many who benefit from long-term care are ensconced too briefly to run down their assets sufficiently to qualify. Please note, however, that for people with extended periods of infirmity and impairment, people from all walks of life apply for Medicaid except at the very top.
There’s another type of welfare spending you neglect, and that’s public schools, who enroll as we speak about 87% of all school age cohorts. The point of establishing them and maintaining them that a decent person (not a school administrator) would recognize and endorse is distributional. Schooling emerges naturally on the open market as a fee-for-service enterprise. People who do not have school age children at a given time heavily subsidize people who do.
Note, SSI has some elderly people on the rolls, but it’s mostly people who were disabled prior to age 30 and it’s actual function is to supplement what is supplied to such people by relatives or local agencies; SSI benefits are too modest to allow anyone to live independently. Blacks are more likely to qualify for it due to a feature you lot harp on every day in other contexts: a larger share of the black population has an IQ below 60 or an IQ below 70 conjoined to some other disability.
SNAP, housing subsidies, and Medicaid for medical expenditures are all means-tested programs. They have proportionately more blacks on the rolls for a menu of reasons, but the most salient among them is that a larger share of the black population is below the income thresh-hold to qualify. To some extent, that’s because the black lumpenproletariat is proportionately larger (15% of the total rather than 3%), but the principal reason for that is that about 1/2 the black working population have low paying service jobs and (with few exceptions) have those jobs all their life. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to complain that they took the money you left on the table for them.
There is a difference between being a lifelong parasite that only sucks from the government and benefitting from what are in (at least in part) insurance or tuition savings programs where at varying points in your life you are paying in as well as drawing benefits.Replies: @Art Deco
My take:
Art seems to be stressing the much larger size of the universal programs than the specific poverty programs and that blacks in fact are mostly in the workforce, just concentrated more heavily in lower wage service occupations.
Jack is stress that blacks are--on average--net tax eaters. Which is certainly true as that is true of about the bottom 50% of the income distribution.
Let me throw in some thoughts:
-- The "black problem" is not really a welfare benefits problem. It's a bunch of other externalities, centering around crime and other anti-social behavior that make blacks a particular problem.
-- Mass social spending.
I don't get bent out of shape about universal social welfare. None of these programs is structured as I'd like. (I like more directly aligned incentives--contributions/benefits.) Because of the way medicare taxes are constructed (since sometime in the 9os), I've paid in way, way more than the average person and yet have to shell out twice as much for my PartB benefit. But I can't get excited about it. Basically, my marginal taxes rates were/are higher--then and now--than advertised. BFD.
-- Eugenics
The real issue with big welfare spending is aiding dysgenics. When the old--brutal--restraints of disease and starvation were ameliorated, societies need to insure eugenic fertility through some other means. I'm all for people not starving in the streets and everyone having some basic medical care. But if your fellow citizens have to in-the-net take care of you--including your behavior is psychotic or criminal--then correspondingly you should not be reproducing.
This whole "Nazi!" nonsense around genetics--that we can't talk sensibly about the most obvious issue that people don't all have the same package of genes impacting success in the modern world--is just incredibly stupid and damaging. One of the worst aspects of the toxic stinking pile of minoritarian stupidity.
-- Immigration
Of course, the entire working class--including the low paid service workers Art refers to--would be doing better in relative income terms--and have fewer net tax easters--if there wasn't this constant inflow of immigrants from the world labor market pushing down their wages.
It is doubly stupid when these immigrants themselves--especially because ... there's more right after them!--are also going to cluster in the lower reaches of the working class and also be net tax easters. Seriously, you let people come in to eat your taxes. Brilliant!
And it is triply stupid because we are in beginning of giant robotics and AI revolution where millions of jobs--driving, warehousing, food prep, cleaning ... --are going to be nuked by automation over the next few decades. So you are importing millions of people who not only won't be net tax payers, but they and their descendants will skew toward being part of even larger "unemployable" lumpenprole class that will essentially have to live off public welfare. Genius!
Note, SSI has some elderly people on the rolls, but it's mostly people who were disabled prior to age 30 and it's actual function is to supplement what is supplied to such people by relatives or local agencies; SSI benefits are too modest to allow anyone to live independently. Blacks are more likely to qualify for it due to a feature you lot harp on every day in other contexts: a larger share of the black population has an IQ below 60 or an IQ below 70 conjoined to some other disability. SNAP, housing subsidies, and Medicaid for medical expenditures are all means-tested programs. They have proportionately more blacks on the rolls for a menu of reasons, but the most salient among them is that a larger share of the black population is below the income thresh-hold to qualify. To some extent, that's because the black lumpenproletariat is proportionately larger (15% of the total rather than 3%), but the principal reason for that is that about 1/2 the black working population have low paying service jobs and (with few exceptions) have those jobs all their life. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to complain that they took the money you left on the table for them.Replies: @Jack D, @John Johnson, @AnotherDad
Apples and oranges. SS and Medicare are national pension and health insurance schemes that cover virtually everyone in the country over age 65 so of course they are massive and any social welfare program for the indigent is going to be smaller by comparison. Likewise, while you may or may not have public school aged children at some particular time, a large majority of people have kids in the public schools at some point in their life. Universal benefits and means tested programs are not the same thing.
There is a difference between being a lifelong parasite that only sucks from the government and benefitting from what are in (at least in part) insurance or tuition savings programs where at varying points in your life you are paying in as well as drawing benefits.
==
About the only 'lifelong parasite's you're going to find are disabled or incarcerated.Replies: @Jack D
This stuff is sort of funny if you’re in on the joke and don’t give over to depression about the future of your nation.
“Complex” == this case is not narrative compliant even with our usual omissions and lying … extra verbal putty required
Simple:
1. White cop kills black man.
2. All Whites are racist.
Complex:
1. Black cops kill black man.
2. Some things must have happened.
3. All Whites are racist.
Segregation now.
when Blacks kill a black man it barely makes the news. Eyewitnesses will not identify the perps half the time. The footage is not fit to print. There are few, if any, articles in the NY times when a black man is beaten to death by other blacks. Blacks and leftists only get upset when the perps are white or police. Otherwise the NY times would have several articles per week writing about all the cases of Blacks ganging up to kill another Black man. If these 5 policemen were just gang members, nobody would know about this homicide. The footage would be banned from social media and TV.
This will happen soon and in fact is nothing new under the sun. The era of relative good-feeling, safety, and falling crime we grew accustomed to from, say, 1993 to 2014 will prove a cyclical aberration as overcredenutialed upper middle class sh!tlibs take up the same “criminals are the victims of society” clarion their grandparents did in the DIRTY HARRY, MAGNUM FORCE, TAXI DRIVER 60’s and 70’s .Replies: @Sun Reader, @Joe Stalin, @CalCooledge
You know, we got a song just for THAT!
There wouldn’t be a need for police reform if blacks would stop committing so many crimes. Black criminality is the real problem not police brutality.
.
You know you live in a F'ed up country when an obviously true statement (above) is banned from consideration.
.
In a decent country, that sentence would be the headline of every editorial after a police-black incident.
I’m going to start repeating this. I may or may not attribute it to you. Depends on the audience.
“Listen, people, Systemic Racism is not a conspiracy theory. We are not saying that people are conspiring together in their self-interest, we are saying that people are not conspiring together in their disinterest. Or something. Have you read Foucault? It all makes sense if you keep in mind who are the Good People and who are the Bad People.”
Note, SSI has some elderly people on the rolls, but it's mostly people who were disabled prior to age 30 and it's actual function is to supplement what is supplied to such people by relatives or local agencies; SSI benefits are too modest to allow anyone to live independently. Blacks are more likely to qualify for it due to a feature you lot harp on every day in other contexts: a larger share of the black population has an IQ below 60 or an IQ below 70 conjoined to some other disability. SNAP, housing subsidies, and Medicaid for medical expenditures are all means-tested programs. They have proportionately more blacks on the rolls for a menu of reasons, but the most salient among them is that a larger share of the black population is below the income thresh-hold to qualify. To some extent, that's because the black lumpenproletariat is proportionately larger (15% of the total rather than 3%), but the principal reason for that is that about 1/2 the black working population have low paying service jobs and (with few exceptions) have those jobs all their life. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to complain that they took the money you left on the table for them.Replies: @Jack D, @John Johnson, @AnotherDad
I would add that proportions don’t tell actually us everything.
If Blacks are X% of Medicaid that doesn’t tell us anything about average expenses.
Blacks are more likely to be overweight and obese. Those drive medical costs more than people realize. The amount of money spent on type 2 diabetes is madness.
TANF and SNAP really aren’t a big deal compared to Medicaid. SNAP would be less of a problem if the poor couldn’t buy high sugar foods with it. There are states where EBT is used to buy Starbucks. It occurs where Starbucks is inside a grocery store and the cold drinks technically qualify.
For the record I don’t take the position that we should get rid of Medicaid. Not in the least. It needs to be reformed and we need to do something about the obesity problem.
But when liberals or even conservatives point out drops in welfare they are usually ignoring Medicaid. It’s really easy to play a dishonest numbers game with welfare reform. Some conservatives have even become convinced that it was fixed with Clinton.
The US is still very much a welfare state. A lot of it is simply hidden in programs that are not counted as welfare like SSDI.
I have no clue who you fancy is not counting Social Security as part of the welfare state. If you're suggesting that AFDC was replaced by disability benefits, that's utterly untrue. The demographic profiles of AFDC beneficiaries and those currently on Social Security Disability are completely different.Replies: @John Johnson
The Memphis authorities have found one way to cut through these complexities:
Second from the left: what is that thing on his head?Replies: @Jack D
Note, SSI has some elderly people on the rolls, but it's mostly people who were disabled prior to age 30 and it's actual function is to supplement what is supplied to such people by relatives or local agencies; SSI benefits are too modest to allow anyone to live independently. Blacks are more likely to qualify for it due to a feature you lot harp on every day in other contexts: a larger share of the black population has an IQ below 60 or an IQ below 70 conjoined to some other disability. SNAP, housing subsidies, and Medicaid for medical expenditures are all means-tested programs. They have proportionately more blacks on the rolls for a menu of reasons, but the most salient among them is that a larger share of the black population is below the income thresh-hold to qualify. To some extent, that's because the black lumpenproletariat is proportionately larger (15% of the total rather than 3%), but the principal reason for that is that about 1/2 the black working population have low paying service jobs and (with few exceptions) have those jobs all their life. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to complain that they took the money you left on the table for them.Replies: @Jack D, @John Johnson, @AnotherDad
Art, Jack not really sure what you are arguing about. I don’t think you have much disagreement on the basic facts.
My take:
Art seems to be stressing the much larger size of the universal programs than the specific poverty programs and that blacks in fact are mostly in the workforce, just concentrated more heavily in lower wage service occupations.
Jack is stress that blacks are–on average–net tax eaters. Which is certainly true as that is true of about the bottom 50% of the income distribution.
Let me throw in some thoughts:
— The “black problem” is not really a welfare benefits problem. It’s a bunch of other externalities, centering around crime and other anti-social behavior that make blacks a particular problem.
— Mass social spending.
I don’t get bent out of shape about universal social welfare. None of these programs is structured as I’d like. (I like more directly aligned incentives–contributions/benefits.) Because of the way medicare taxes are constructed (since sometime in the 9os), I’ve paid in way, way more than the average person and yet have to shell out twice as much for my PartB benefit. But I can’t get excited about it. Basically, my marginal taxes rates were/are higher–then and now–than advertised. BFD.
— Eugenics
The real issue with big welfare spending is aiding dysgenics. When the old–brutal–restraints of disease and starvation were ameliorated, societies need to insure eugenic fertility through some other means. I’m all for people not starving in the streets and everyone having some basic medical care. But if your fellow citizens have to in-the-net take care of you–including your behavior is psychotic or criminal–then correspondingly you should not be reproducing.
This whole “Nazi!” nonsense around genetics–that we can’t talk sensibly about the most obvious issue that people don’t all have the same package of genes impacting success in the modern world–is just incredibly stupid and damaging. One of the worst aspects of the toxic stinking pile of minoritarian stupidity.
— Immigration
Of course, the entire working class–including the low paid service workers Art refers to–would be doing better in relative income terms–and have fewer net tax easters–if there wasn’t this constant inflow of immigrants from the world labor market pushing down their wages.
It is doubly stupid when these immigrants themselves–especially because … there’s more right after them!–are also going to cluster in the lower reaches of the working class and also be net tax easters. Seriously, you let people come in to eat your taxes. Brilliant!
And it is triply stupid because we are in beginning of giant robotics and AI revolution where millions of jobs–driving, warehousing, food prep, cleaning … –are going to be nuked by automation over the next few decades. So you are importing millions of people who not only won’t be net tax payers, but they and their descendants will skew toward being part of even larger “unemployable” lumpenprole class that will essentially have to live off public welfare. Genius!
Michigan Priest Who Temporarily Died Claims He Went to Hell and Saw Demons Enslaving Humans, Torturing Them With Rihanna Music
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/michigan-priest-temporarily-died-claims-125826774.html
Boy Steve you are in trouble.
I don’t think they will have Beatles or MLB in hell.
Gonna be rough.
“and white liberals don’t want their cities to be made into unlivable hell holes”
Too late.
There is a difference between being a lifelong parasite that only sucks from the government and benefitting from what are in (at least in part) insurance or tuition savings programs where at varying points in your life you are paying in as well as drawing benefits.Replies: @Art Deco
There is a difference between being a lifelong parasite that only sucks from the government and benefitting from what are in (at least in part) insurance or tuition savings programs where at varying points in your life you are paying in as well as drawing benefits.
==
About the only ‘lifelong parasite’s you’re going to find are disabled or incarcerated.
You seem to be determined to blur the distinctions between the 100% antisocial (only a small % of the black population) and those who, together with their kids, are on the whole merely net burdens to society (probably the bottom 40% of the black population). The corresponding %s for whites are much lower. Look at any measure of societal dysfunction and blacks are overrepresented by a factor of 2, 3, 4 or more.
Nor is this merely a function of being "low income". There are a lot of low income Asians (new immigrants who don't speak the language and can only get jobs in the back of Chinese restaurants, etc.) who are not net burdens to society and especially when you take into account their kids who will be net contributors and not felons over their lifetimes.
The US is still very much a welfare state. A lot of it is simply hidden in programs that are not counted as welfare like SSDI.
I have no clue who you fancy is not counting Social Security as part of the welfare state. If you’re suggesting that AFDC was replaced by disability benefits, that’s utterly untrue. The demographic profiles of AFDC beneficiaries and those currently on Social Security Disability are completely different.
Liberals do it all the time. They will show cuts in TANF/SNAP and imply that welfare reform talk is just conservative BS. The welfare state ended in the 90s according to them. If you’re suggesting that AFDC was replaced by disability benefits, that’s utterly untrue. The demographic profiles of AFDC beneficiaries and those currently on Social Security Disability are completely different.Some TANF was in fact replaced by SSDI. That is because welfare heavy states have used consultants to move women onto SSDI where possible. The consultant finds a disability and poof no more state burden. These private consultants of course get a cut of the action. But most SSDI welfare is really just fraud aka crazy money. There is in fact a problem with it being used in poor White areas. I can even dig up an article from a liberal who argued that we should basically look the other way on SSDI fraud because we don't have a European welfare system. Well a big problem with SSDI is that it discourages work. If you show work aptitude they will kick you off. For a poor person that is often unemployed it makes sense to stay on it. I'm actually not against welfare in theory but I'm not sure if it is possible to have a healthy system when then left is motivated to breed voters. I think they want dependent single mothers and not a state of working families. For this reason I tend to side with the "cut em off" right. Welfare undoubtedly works better in countries that have a stronger sense of national cohesion and civic duty. But I'm open to new ideas.
The real issue with big welfare spending is aiding dysgenics.
This is a fantasy.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tennessee-man-100-charges-dozens-kids-arrestedReplies: @Flip, @Art Deco
I wonder if we’ll find out that similarly to the Chauvin/Floyd interaction, that the suspect and at least one of the cops knew each other before this confrontation.
That’s good.
==
About the only 'lifelong parasite's you're going to find are disabled or incarcerated.Replies: @Jack D
It depends on how you definite “parasite”. If someone works at certain points in their life and pays in 10% of the amount that they will eventually draw out of the system, does that make them “not a parasite”. According to you, if you pay a dollar in sales tax on your pack of Newports or worked once as a security guard for a few months, you are no longer a parasite.
You seem to be determined to blur the distinctions between the 100% antisocial (only a small % of the black population) and those who, together with their kids, are on the whole merely net burdens to society (probably the bottom 40% of the black population). The corresponding %s for whites are much lower. Look at any measure of societal dysfunction and blacks are overrepresented by a factor of 2, 3, 4 or more.
Nor is this merely a function of being “low income”. There are a lot of low income Asians (new immigrants who don’t speak the language and can only get jobs in the back of Chinese restaurants, etc.) who are not net burdens to society and especially when you take into account their kids who will be net contributors and not felons over their lifetimes.
I have no clue who you fancy is not counting Social Security as part of the welfare state. If you're suggesting that AFDC was replaced by disability benefits, that's utterly untrue. The demographic profiles of AFDC beneficiaries and those currently on Social Security Disability are completely different.Replies: @John Johnson
I have no clue who you fancy is not counting Social Security as part of the welfare state.
Liberals do it all the time. They will show cuts in TANF/SNAP and imply that welfare reform talk is just conservative BS. The welfare state ended in the 90s according to them.
If you’re suggesting that AFDC was replaced by disability benefits, that’s utterly untrue. The demographic profiles of AFDC beneficiaries and those currently on Social Security Disability are completely different.
Some TANF was in fact replaced by SSDI.
That is because welfare heavy states have used consultants to move women onto SSDI where possible. The consultant finds a disability and poof no more state burden. These private consultants of course get a cut of the action.
But most SSDI welfare is really just fraud aka crazy money. There is in fact a problem with it being used in poor White areas. I can even dig up an article from a liberal who argued that we should basically look the other way on SSDI fraud because we don’t have a European welfare system. Well a big problem with SSDI is that it discourages work. If you show work aptitude they will kick you off. For a poor person that is often unemployed it makes sense to stay on it.
I’m actually not against welfare in theory but I’m not sure if it is possible to have a healthy system when then left is motivated to breed voters. I think they want dependent single mothers and not a state of working families. For this reason I tend to side with the “cut em off” right. Welfare undoubtedly works better in countries that have a stronger sense of national cohesion and civic duty. But I’m open to new ideas.
I wondered the same myself. Does the guy have a record? Previous run-ins with the police? Perhaps there was some underlying personal reason for it. It still doesn’t excuse it, of course. I can understand getting rough with a suspect. But kicking a prone, restrained suspect in the head is just assault.
I don't see why it would matter.
These cops are weak. The guy was a lanky 145 and they couldn't get his hands without hitting him with a baton.
They also sprayed themselves with pepper spray.
Clown Town cops that should have been in a clown car.
Welfare costs peanuts. (Social Security and Medicare cost a lot, but you don’t want to count them.)
Abolish welfare and give you back the taxes and you won’t even notice it. A couple steak dinners and payments on your–wait for it–government-subsidized (yes, it is, oh, yes it is–all housing in the US is government-subsidized. Did you pay 50% down? No? Then your house is government-subsidized.)
Welfare is a push-button issue to arouse the dumbbells, like abortion. It really isn’t a problem at all, except maybe it doesn’t pay enough to help people get off of welfare.
True–now take a look at how many blacks who were in the military have fake/exaggerated “disablity” claims from their “service”.
“When did the meaning of the word ‘conversation’ take on such Orwellian tones?”
When women entered the conversation.
The “conversation” is “complex” only if your starting point is nuts. For example, if you believe that racist white policemen are persecuting black Americans.
A much simpler conversation is that police officers do not appreciate it when a traffic stop is followed by the driver running away. They may overreact when catching and restraining the fleeing driver. Guess what? Black officers are no less likely than white officers to overreact.
Maybe the problem is just human nature. In any situation where one person has power over another, there will be abuse of that power. Perhaps mitigating factors might be devised to reduce the frequency of such events, but nothing can be done to prevent them. We might also consider being grateful that such confrontations are so rare: there are three hundred and thirty million of us, after all. If the rate of deadly incidents were one-one hundredth of one percent, there would be 33,000 a year instead of the handful there are. And flapping your mouth and running when the man has his eyes on you is just astonishingly stupid, waving the proverbial red cape before an enraged bull. You smile and say “yassuh, boss” whether you’re white or black, so you can live to bullshit your friends the next day about how badass and fearless you were.
It's really quite remarkable how none of this can be openly discussed at all - I can recall when Clinton first ran for office the subject of black crime and welfare dependency was something Democrats openly debated, and what to do about it. To some extent I think it is because back then there were still a fair number of white working class/urban Democrats who had to live with black dysfunction daily, whereas they are gone and replaced by white college graduates who largely stay the hell away from areas where they would have to interact with blacks on a daily basis or send their kids to the same school On the other hand, academia and newsrooms have been so thoroughly infiltrated by people who have been brought up on intersectionality and CRT (whether they actually realize this) that the myriad instances of in-your-face black misbehavior is explained away by the voodoo of white supremacy, a concept that cannot be really proven but just accepted.Replies: @International Jew, @Almost Missouri
I can live with the economic cost. What really bothers me is the hit we’ve taken to our freedom — of association, of speech, of walking on the street.
Christopher Calwell (The Age of Entitlement) does a great job showing how, for the benefit of the Blacks, we’ve turned the Constitution on its head.
This is a fantasy.Replies: @AnotherDad
https://www.foxnews.com/us/father-of-30-kids-by-11-women-cant-pay-child-support
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tennessee-man-100-charges-dozens-kids-arrested
Jews get killed in Israel, Arm Up The Jews, Disarm the Enemies.
In Jewish Highland Park, Disarm the Enemies, the Populace. (Local Assault Weapon ordinance in effect.)
Get Jewish Governor to Disarm the State’s Populace (AW ban), Billionaire Michael Bloomberg Cat’s Paw Everytown pulling the strings, amongst others, use the MSM as the Megaphone (WIND-AM 560 Dan Proft: Chicago’s MSM is the Democratic Party’s Comm Shop.).
Disarmament, a foreign ideology that needs to be purged from the body politic.
“Even though there doesn’t seem to be a reason for us to be doing the things that we’re doing, if we look into the past, we can see things were done that would cause us to do the things we’re doing today. And, you know what? It’s probably better if you don’t question that, peasant.”
“… [C]omplicating the anguish at police reform”? So we want “anguish at police reform” but we want it to be simple?
https://twitter.com/ThatmattersNews/status/1619112151829839876Replies: @J.Ross
Fourth from the left is so handsome, the official photographer zoomed in on him in what’s supposed to be a standardized format.
Second from the left: what is that thing on his head?
I doubt the original photographer zoomed in on anyone. It was probably done in the cropping for the montage.
(By the way, does anyone know if "chimpout" should be capitalized? Is there a link to the NYT's style guide?)Replies: @Muggles
If the chimpout was performed by whites, no caps. If Blacks, yes.
I’ve never seen any numbers on that. What I always found amazing is how many blacks on active service had chronic medical conditions such as high blood pressure.
Black men commit the vast majority of violent crimes. Running from the cops will make them attack like a pack of hyenas going after a wildebeest.
Cops are indoctrinated with an Us against Them mentality. Notice how they constantly refer to non-cops as “civilians”. This also is part of their militarist mentality, see Radley Balko’s work. They are told every day they are in combat with the people they interact with and are a split second away from being killed at every interaction. They are then armed to the teeth with military grade weapons, again Balko.
I don’t know if Memphis cops have gone but, so many have traveled to Israel to see how they deal with the Palestinians.
Stupid blacks and aggressive, paranoid cops…what could possibly go wrong?
About half the murders, supposedly about half the robberies, about 1/3 of the aggravated assaults, and about 22% of rapes / sexual assault. I don't trust the Bureau of Justice Statistics or the FBI anymore as the former has been working to make it's data more difficult to use and the latter is hiding data altogether. 'Rape' in these reports used to refer to forcible rape, but now they've adopted a broader definition. (The foregoing data points were supposedly compiled from 2018 data).Replies: @Ben the Layabout
It’s shocking in light of the 20th century that by the 21st century the concept of class has seemingly been totally forgotten in the US.
When contempt is displayed it can only exist through racial or ethnic animosity, it can’t, for example, be produced by police with low patience or empathy growing to hate and feel superior to the other they police and occasionally express that hatred of their social inferiors or be an example of class hatred. Or be overall the product of a sadist.
Autistic libertarians like Jordan Peterson think that envy is the motive force in history because they assume that poor people disagreeing with rich people in how the country should be run can only come from envy because rich people could never, for instance, display contempt for people they deem their social inferiors and that this force might actually be profoundly powerful and common. (In reality drive for wealth is innately far lower among the poor than among the rich) And who ever heard of the wealthy having their views be more influential and being more politically organised?
Large numbers of people have low empathy for others and tend to have a sadistic love of torturing those they deem their social inferiors, particularly when placed high in socioeconomic standing. This tends to be highly destructive because those people focus more on hurting those they have contempt for in society than what is good for society as a whole and tend to ignore the things people they deem to be their social inferiors say.
A black policeman high in these traits tending to take a sadistic level of abuse to poor ghetto blacks whom he has grown to despise not only for their actions but also for their actions + him seeing them as his social inferiors isn’t at all surprising and doesn’t need a shred of transposed racial prejudice or a kind of racial social standing mentality at all. See every black country ever and ever racially homogeneous country ever.
The credo “Everything the US media says is about race is really about class and everything the US media says is about class is really about race” is incredibly accurate.
Indeed contempt for social inferiors is a very powerful force. It is, for example, why Trump’s election completely short-circuited the brains of the wealthier half of the Western world and caused them to also believe neocon ‘Russiagate’ bullshit. To understand why Trump won they’d have to accept the perspectives and interests of people so many of them held in contempt as their social inferiors that all these obvious fantasies were just accepted. And now we’re on the edge of nuclear war with Russia. (Seriously, Biden keeps talking about ‘offramps’ for Russia, there is no ‘offramp’ for the US)
Second from the left: what is that thing on his head?Replies: @Jack D
The yellow fringe on the flag looks like it is coming out of all of their heads, like a single devil’s horn. You are always supposed to check your background so it doesn’t look like stuff is coming out of your subject’s head. Either that or reduce the depth of field so that the background is not in focus.
I doubt the original photographer zoomed in on anyone. It was probably done in the cropping for the montage.
It’s not just that it’s a dead letter. It’s that Biden has gotten billions in additional funding for cops, and has asked for billions more.
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/08/29/biden-crime-prevention-policing-plan
Part of the reason for the turnaround was accurate NYT reporting about how unpopular “defund the police” really was, not least among black people.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/us/politics/minneapolis-defund-police.html
This is a good example of mainstream media helping Democrats stay in touch with reality. Right wing media rarely performs that function for Republicans, as Hanania pointed out.
Those 5 Black Memphis Cops did more accurately reflect the demographics of the community they police, they’re criminals, too.
I’m only one cop, and from a city with relatively few black people, but I’ll give it a shot:
Everything else being equal, yes. Black people are, on average, way more likely to be belligerent and combative. Are they actually more likely to attack me? Yes, but not as disproportionately as the general combativeness. Basically, cops understand that the aggressiveness baseline for black men is way higher than that of, say, Asian women. It’s like a gauge. Asian women (just to pick the two extremes) start off at zero and you’ve got a lot of space before they spin up to 100. Black men often start around 60 or so. On the one hand, after you get used to it you just come to expect that just because a grown man is in the middle of what seems like a tantrum doesn’t mean he’s actually all that pissed off. But still, he might snap pretty fast and without warning. Honestly, a little like the mentally ill.
It would be more accurate to say that, of all the people I contact who can be objectively articulated as representing safety risks, black people are over represented by quite a bit. But even there, it’s a little more subtle. The most “dangerous” black guys, old school gangsters, are usually not that dangerous because they’ve been stopped more times than you can count and they know exactly how the program goes. They might still shoot you, but they’re not going to freak out first and it’ll be for a specific reason. No kidding, if I had my choice between a traffic stop on a car full of 40 year old guys on paper for murder and a car full of 17 year old Somali kids with no criminal record, give me the OGs.
All of that said, this specific incident hasn’t got anything to do with that. It’s a shitshow from the word Go. I don’t know enough about national policing to rank my agency among them, but I hardly feel like we’re a bunch of all stars. If you showed any part of this video to a competent cop, totally absent the fact that it ended the way it did, they’d tell you every cop in it is comically inept. Not just cruel or aggressive, just totally incompetent. The use of tools (pepper, baton, taser) is completely idiotic and counterproductive. Seriously, I’m not a white woman, but I Just Can’t Even.
Depends entirely on how many you need, I think. It’s kind of a joke in my agency that most of the “black” cops we hire are basically Oreos, as the old slander goes. In my experience, they pan out exactly like you’d expect them to. The ones who came from careers in the financial sector act like that, the ones who “escaped” the ghetto act like that. On the whole, an unimpressive lot, but if you only needed a few and were paying well (as a lot of west coast agencies do) you might do okay. If you need a lot and are paying $20/ hour, I’d be skeptical. If the question is propensity to this kind of violence, I can’t say from my experience. What’s in this video is so far out of my frame of reference that I’d have thought it was happening in Africa. There is literally no part of it that I can imagine any cop I work with, regardless of skin color, doing. Not just because it’s “bad”, but because it’s stupid.
I would say, to address something Sailer has written, that I’m really skeptical of the value of diversity in agencies. Mine is probably 10%ish black, but it’s not like those cops get sent to calls involving black people or assigned to majority black beats. When me and another white cop are on a call with a black suspect, do we somehow give better service because there’s this other cop I know who is also black? I’ve never seen a black suspect who seemed especially impressed that he was getting arrested by a black cop. And how much of a service is it to the black cop when you promote him years before he’s ready? One thing about this job, it’s really, really hard to hide your incompetence from your co workers.
Anyhow, that’s my two cents. For my part, being a GenXer, I enjoy interacting with successful black people. Also, I absolutely dread every call I get sent to involving black people (which is often more than half the calls I go to in my lily-white beat). At this point, near the end of my career, the only people I hate interacting with more than black people are wealthy white people.
Thanks for your post. Always good to hear from the people on the front lines. iSteve comments are great, but a lot of us are armchair warriors.
As the career long welfare recipient you are, you have much more in common with blacks than you do with whites.Replies: @Anonymous
About 1/2 of all black men have criminal records, but that leaves another 1/2 that don’t. Nichols seems to be in the “don’t” half. No one has been able to locate any sort of arrest record for him so far, not so much as a speeding ticket. The upper 50% of the black population are mostly harmless, mostly blue collar or civil servants. Not the sharpest knives in the drawer but essentially harmless. The bottom 50% cause endless havoc.
Even if Nichols was the biggest POS on earth, it was not the cops’ job to beat him to death. But in this case they seem to have focused on a truly innocent man. Even the alleged “reckless driving” for which they stopped him doesn’t seem to be borne out by the evidence. Every once in a while, the cops just royally fuck up, like the lady cop in Houston who got off the elevator on the wrong floor and found a “burglar” in her apartment, except that it wasn’t her apartment it was the apartment of a black accountant who was minding his own business and eating ice cream when she shot and killed him in his own home. She got 10 years (can be out in 5) and IMHO she got off way too easy.
Same thing for these cops – they should get AT LEAST as much time as Chauvin including both state and Federal charges or else it’s racist. Like the satire Tweet said – they should be tried as whites.
Sometimes a ghetto black slips through the cracks and gets hired but they don't stay long. One got fired when he threatened to kill the wife and children of his boss. Another one got fired for stealing several thousand dollars. Another one got fired for regularly coming in intoxicated, drinking on the job, and making multiple mistakes on the work. A number get fired for not showing up regularly but that takes a little longer. A management person told me you have to thoroughly document their absences because they pull the race card and say their boss is firing them because he or she is a racist. The person who told me that looked around nervously first to see no one else was in hearing distance. In the federal government you can get in trouble if you talk openly about the problems blacks can cause.Replies: @jinkforp, @Ben the Layabout
He wasn't innocent. He resisted arrest.
As Chris Rock pointed out, if the police have to chase you down, they are bringing a beating with them. Being beaten by cops can be hazardous to your health. Don't resist arrest.Replies: @Jack D
I wondered the same myself. Does the guy have a record? Previous run-ins with the police? Perhaps there was some underlying personal reason for it. It still doesn’t excuse it, of course. I can understand getting rough with a suspect. But kicking a prone, restrained suspect in the head is just assault.
I don’t see why it would matter.
These cops are weak. The guy was a lanky 145 and they couldn’t get his hands without hitting him with a baton.
They also sprayed themselves with pepper spray.
Clown Town cops that should have been in a clown car.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tennessee-man-100-charges-dozens-kids-arrestedReplies: @Flip, @Art Deco
It would be more accurate to say that, of all the people I contact who can be objectively articulated as representing safety risks, black people are over represented by quite a bit. But even there, it's a little more subtle. The most "dangerous" black guys, old school gangsters, are usually not that dangerous because they've been stopped more times than you can count and they know exactly how the program goes. They might still shoot you, but they're not going to freak out first and it'll be for a specific reason. No kidding, if I had my choice between a traffic stop on a car full of 40 year old guys on paper for murder and a car full of 17 year old Somali kids with no criminal record, give me the OGs.
All of that said, this specific incident hasn't got anything to do with that. It's a shitshow from the word Go. I don't know enough about national policing to rank my agency among them, but I hardly feel like we're a bunch of all stars. If you showed any part of this video to a competent cop, totally absent the fact that it ended the way it did, they'd tell you every cop in it is comically inept. Not just cruel or aggressive, just totally incompetent. The use of tools (pepper, baton, taser) is completely idiotic and counterproductive. Seriously, I'm not a white woman, but I Just Can't Even.Depends entirely on how many you need, I think. It's kind of a joke in my agency that most of the "black" cops we hire are basically Oreos, as the old slander goes. In my experience, they pan out exactly like you'd expect them to. The ones who came from careers in the financial sector act like that, the ones who "escaped" the ghetto act like that. On the whole, an unimpressive lot, but if you only needed a few and were paying well (as a lot of west coast agencies do) you might do okay. If you need a lot and are paying $20/ hour, I'd be skeptical. If the question is propensity to this kind of violence, I can't say from my experience. What's in this video is so far out of my frame of reference that I'd have thought it was happening in Africa. There is literally no part of it that I can imagine any cop I work with, regardless of skin color, doing. Not just because it's "bad", but because it's stupid.
I would say, to address something Sailer has written, that I'm really skeptical of the value of diversity in agencies. Mine is probably 10%ish black, but it's not like those cops get sent to calls involving black people or assigned to majority black beats. When me and another white cop are on a call with a black suspect, do we somehow give better service because there's this other cop I know who is also black? I've never seen a black suspect who seemed especially impressed that he was getting arrested by a black cop. And how much of a service is it to the black cop when you promote him years before he's ready? One thing about this job, it's really, really hard to hide your incompetence from your co workers.
Anyhow, that's my two cents. For my part, being a GenXer, I enjoy interacting with successful black people. Also, I absolutely dread every call I get sent to involving black people (which is often more than half the calls I go to in my lily-white beat). At this point, near the end of my career, the only people I hate interacting with more than black people are wealthy white people.Replies: @John Johnson, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob, @Mike Tre
Everything else being equal, yes. Black people are, on average, way more likely to be belligerent and combative. Are they actually more likely to attack me? Yes, but not as disproportionately as the general combativeness. Basically, cops understand that the aggressiveness baseline for black men is way higher than that of, say, Asian women. It’s like a gauge.
Are Blacks more likely to be combative if it is a majority Black area? All things being equal? I’m wondering how much being around other Blacks can affect their attitude.
At this point, near the end of my career, the only people I hate interacting with more than black people are wealthy white people.
Interesting.
I have said before that I would rather hang around Blacks than wealthy Whites.
There are some really messed up wealthy Whites in this country.
Wealthy Whites are a lot more interesting on television. In real life they contain a lot of tasteless blue blood assholes that look down on anyone that works. Even basic interactions with them can be really tiring.
With whom have you been 'interacting'?Replies: @John Johnson
And I know the Memphis video is a jumping off point to this discussion, but I can't emphasize strongly enough how totally wild the force in that video is. In general, you don't see off the reservation bullshit outside of special units, if for no other reason that if you have *any* chance of getting away with something like that it's because you trust everyone around you. That is almost never the case on patrol in an agency of any size. The blue wall of silence is silly fiction; it's more about being hesitant to second guess decisions by others in your field based on limited information. It exists in literally every profession. Something like Memphis, if that guy had survived, they'd still have had a lot of explaining to do.I should have been more specific. The big town/small city I work in is filled with comfortable white people who LOVE black people, in the abstract. They have the signs, flags, etc, and don't give a rat's ass what happens to their pets. Since 2020, at work I never eat at a restaurant run by white Americans, because they all hate me. Mexican, Chinese, places run by immigrant whites, black businesses, they're all fine. Just not places where my food is made by upper middle class Antifa girls with blue hair.
It's really quite remarkable how none of this can be openly discussed at all - I can recall when Clinton first ran for office the subject of black crime and welfare dependency was something Democrats openly debated, and what to do about it. To some extent I think it is because back then there were still a fair number of white working class/urban Democrats who had to live with black dysfunction daily, whereas they are gone and replaced by white college graduates who largely stay the hell away from areas where they would have to interact with blacks on a daily basis or send their kids to the same school On the other hand, academia and newsrooms have been so thoroughly infiltrated by people who have been brought up on intersectionality and CRT (whether they actually realize this) that the myriad instances of in-your-face black misbehavior is explained away by the voodoo of white supremacy, a concept that cannot be really proven but just accepted.Replies: @International Jew, @Almost Missouri
Internet randos doing the jobs paid academics won’t do:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/kamalas-13-62-meme/#comment-5461346
tl;dr: something north of $1 trillion/year.
The civil rights orgs have shifted from claiming that blacks are capable of performing just like whites to just "give us your money" with zero promise that it would improve black behavior our outcomes, since obviously they don't even believe that themselves for the most part. It's just a punishment they want to levy on whites against their will, which is the real itch they are trying to scratch.
Affirmative action has become increasingly out of control in the federal government in recent years. You’ve aways had the Peter principle in action where people rise to their level of incompetence, but now in the case of blacks they keep getting promotions after that. There have been two policies kept in place, though, that have limited the damage. I believe you still need to have a high school degree and no criminal record to get hired. That largely weeds out the bottom 50%. I’ve heard the blacks I work with even make derogatory remarks about ghetto blacks. One older black man I work with calls young black criminals “a bunch of knuckleheads”.
Sometimes a ghetto black slips through the cracks and gets hired but they don’t stay long. One got fired when he threatened to kill the wife and children of his boss. Another one got fired for stealing several thousand dollars. Another one got fired for regularly coming in intoxicated, drinking on the job, and making multiple mistakes on the work. A number get fired for not showing up regularly but that takes a little longer. A management person told me you have to thoroughly document their absences because they pull the race card and say their boss is firing them because he or she is a racist. The person who told me that looked around nervously first to see no one else was in hearing distance. In the federal government you can get in trouble if you talk openly about the problems blacks can cause.
-DiscardReplies: @bomag
I've even seen this in my personal life. I volunteer at one local non-profit. My "job" takes me to another one in my small mostly White city. The staff there is virtually 100% White female. Thy hired a Black man who could barely speak intelligibly. He didn't last a week.Replies: @John Johnson
It would be more accurate to say that, of all the people I contact who can be objectively articulated as representing safety risks, black people are over represented by quite a bit. But even there, it's a little more subtle. The most "dangerous" black guys, old school gangsters, are usually not that dangerous because they've been stopped more times than you can count and they know exactly how the program goes. They might still shoot you, but they're not going to freak out first and it'll be for a specific reason. No kidding, if I had my choice between a traffic stop on a car full of 40 year old guys on paper for murder and a car full of 17 year old Somali kids with no criminal record, give me the OGs.
All of that said, this specific incident hasn't got anything to do with that. It's a shitshow from the word Go. I don't know enough about national policing to rank my agency among them, but I hardly feel like we're a bunch of all stars. If you showed any part of this video to a competent cop, totally absent the fact that it ended the way it did, they'd tell you every cop in it is comically inept. Not just cruel or aggressive, just totally incompetent. The use of tools (pepper, baton, taser) is completely idiotic and counterproductive. Seriously, I'm not a white woman, but I Just Can't Even.Depends entirely on how many you need, I think. It's kind of a joke in my agency that most of the "black" cops we hire are basically Oreos, as the old slander goes. In my experience, they pan out exactly like you'd expect them to. The ones who came from careers in the financial sector act like that, the ones who "escaped" the ghetto act like that. On the whole, an unimpressive lot, but if you only needed a few and were paying well (as a lot of west coast agencies do) you might do okay. If you need a lot and are paying $20/ hour, I'd be skeptical. If the question is propensity to this kind of violence, I can't say from my experience. What's in this video is so far out of my frame of reference that I'd have thought it was happening in Africa. There is literally no part of it that I can imagine any cop I work with, regardless of skin color, doing. Not just because it's "bad", but because it's stupid.
I would say, to address something Sailer has written, that I'm really skeptical of the value of diversity in agencies. Mine is probably 10%ish black, but it's not like those cops get sent to calls involving black people or assigned to majority black beats. When me and another white cop are on a call with a black suspect, do we somehow give better service because there's this other cop I know who is also black? I've never seen a black suspect who seemed especially impressed that he was getting arrested by a black cop. And how much of a service is it to the black cop when you promote him years before he's ready? One thing about this job, it's really, really hard to hide your incompetence from your co workers.
Anyhow, that's my two cents. For my part, being a GenXer, I enjoy interacting with successful black people. Also, I absolutely dread every call I get sent to involving black people (which is often more than half the calls I go to in my lily-white beat). At this point, near the end of my career, the only people I hate interacting with more than black people are wealthy white people.Replies: @John Johnson, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob, @Mike Tre
Thanks for your input. I think everyone agrees that those black cops were a bunch of clowns and way out of line. That was expressed in the NY Times piece but not the 1st half of what you wrote, which is the actual perspective of cops regarding black people. In order to have a true “conversation about race” you would need to air such opinions. But I’m sure that if the NY Times was interviewing you under your real name you wouldn’t give them your true opinion anyway and if you did they would just condemn you as a racist, so there’s no real “conversation” like the headline promised, just a one sided presentation. Cops, even black ones, are beating up and killing completely innocent black people due to “systemic racism” and it’s a complete mystery why they would ever be predisposed to act violently toward such an angelic group. This doesn’t excuse these cops behavior but it in part explains it.
Since 2014, when policing in America became The Most Important Thing Ever, do you know how many of those nice, smart people ever asked either of us a single finger question about law enforcement? None. They made Facebook posts, they retweeted, they had opinions. But no one wanted to get any perspective on it from a couple people doing it every day. Both of us essentially ditched most of our non-cop friends in 2020 because they all gleefully stabbed us in our backs without ever sending a text saying, "Hey, saw this thing, what are your thoughts." This was the experience of tons of cops I know.
Why? I think people simply don't want to know the truth. They have an idea the truth is out there and that it's ugly, so if they can pretend it's not there and go on believing something that makes them feel good, they're going to do that. Race in America, and specifically criminal justice, is basically a conspiracy theory at this point. Like the friend who carried on about 5G activating nanobots in your bloodstream.Replies: @Mike Tre
Agree plus remember Wall Street neutralizing Occupy with the progressive stack: mentioning class would defeat the entire purpose of the journalistic racial focus.
It would be more accurate to say that, of all the people I contact who can be objectively articulated as representing safety risks, black people are over represented by quite a bit. But even there, it's a little more subtle. The most "dangerous" black guys, old school gangsters, are usually not that dangerous because they've been stopped more times than you can count and they know exactly how the program goes. They might still shoot you, but they're not going to freak out first and it'll be for a specific reason. No kidding, if I had my choice between a traffic stop on a car full of 40 year old guys on paper for murder and a car full of 17 year old Somali kids with no criminal record, give me the OGs.
All of that said, this specific incident hasn't got anything to do with that. It's a shitshow from the word Go. I don't know enough about national policing to rank my agency among them, but I hardly feel like we're a bunch of all stars. If you showed any part of this video to a competent cop, totally absent the fact that it ended the way it did, they'd tell you every cop in it is comically inept. Not just cruel or aggressive, just totally incompetent. The use of tools (pepper, baton, taser) is completely idiotic and counterproductive. Seriously, I'm not a white woman, but I Just Can't Even.Depends entirely on how many you need, I think. It's kind of a joke in my agency that most of the "black" cops we hire are basically Oreos, as the old slander goes. In my experience, they pan out exactly like you'd expect them to. The ones who came from careers in the financial sector act like that, the ones who "escaped" the ghetto act like that. On the whole, an unimpressive lot, but if you only needed a few and were paying well (as a lot of west coast agencies do) you might do okay. If you need a lot and are paying $20/ hour, I'd be skeptical. If the question is propensity to this kind of violence, I can't say from my experience. What's in this video is so far out of my frame of reference that I'd have thought it was happening in Africa. There is literally no part of it that I can imagine any cop I work with, regardless of skin color, doing. Not just because it's "bad", but because it's stupid.
I would say, to address something Sailer has written, that I'm really skeptical of the value of diversity in agencies. Mine is probably 10%ish black, but it's not like those cops get sent to calls involving black people or assigned to majority black beats. When me and another white cop are on a call with a black suspect, do we somehow give better service because there's this other cop I know who is also black? I've never seen a black suspect who seemed especially impressed that he was getting arrested by a black cop. And how much of a service is it to the black cop when you promote him years before he's ready? One thing about this job, it's really, really hard to hide your incompetence from your co workers.
Anyhow, that's my two cents. For my part, being a GenXer, I enjoy interacting with successful black people. Also, I absolutely dread every call I get sent to involving black people (which is often more than half the calls I go to in my lily-white beat). At this point, near the end of my career, the only people I hate interacting with more than black people are wealthy white people.Replies: @John Johnson, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob, @Mike Tre
Pray tell us why this is so.
Thanks for your post. Always good to hear from the people on the front lines. iSteve comments are great, but a lot of us are armchair warriors.
Cops are indoctrinated with an Us against Them mentality. Notice how they constantly refer to non-cops as "civilians". This also is part of their militarist mentality, see Radley Balko's work. They are told every day they are in combat with the people they interact with and are a split second away from being killed at every interaction. They are then armed to the teeth with military grade weapons, again Balko.
I don't know if Memphis cops have gone but, so many have traveled to Israel to see how they deal with the Palestinians.
Stupid blacks and aggressive, paranoid cops...what could possibly go wrong?Replies: @Art Deco
Black men commit the vast majority of violent crimes.
About half the murders, supposedly about half the robberies, about 1/3 of the aggravated assaults, and about 22% of rapes / sexual assault. I don’t trust the Bureau of Justice Statistics or the FBI anymore as the former has been working to make it’s data more difficult to use and the latter is hiding data altogether. ‘Rape’ in these reports used to refer to forcible rape, but now they’ve adopted a broader definition. (The foregoing data points were supposedly compiled from 2018 data).
https://www.unz.com/isteve/fbi-murders-up-4901-black-share-of-known-murder-offenders-reaches-record-56-5/#comment-4933823Replies: @jinkforp, @Art Deco, @Ben the Layabout
Wealthy Whites are a lot more interesting on television. In real life they contain a lot of tasteless blue blood assholes that look down on anyone that works. Even basic interactions with them can be really tiring.
With whom have you been ‘interacting’?
I've had to deal with wealthy Whites through business and I also used to vacation in an area that had a lot of them.
It's the inheritance factor that makes them insufferable.
They never had to work a real job or learn people skills.
I'd rather hang out with troof if the income is over 300k or a large net worth.
The sweet spot for White people is around 100-200k. Small business owners and such that have had to work.
Conservatives are idiots for constantly backing the 1%. They are the worst and their taxes should be increased. Polls show that around half of them vote Democrat.Replies: @Art Deco
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tennessee-man-100-charges-dozens-kids-arrestedReplies: @Flip, @Art Deco
You live in a country with 330 million people in it and lots of weird and wonderful stories that you shouldn’t take too seriously. Black women reproduce at the replacement level. The fertility champions in this country are hispanics; give the state of affairs in their countries of origin, it’s a reasonable inference that will last one generation. (While we’re at it, fecundity is fairly insensitive to financial incentives, so no clue why it pops into your head in a discussion of welfare policy).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v921CaZYsow
It would be more accurate to say that, of all the people I contact who can be objectively articulated as representing safety risks, black people are over represented by quite a bit. But even there, it's a little more subtle. The most "dangerous" black guys, old school gangsters, are usually not that dangerous because they've been stopped more times than you can count and they know exactly how the program goes. They might still shoot you, but they're not going to freak out first and it'll be for a specific reason. No kidding, if I had my choice between a traffic stop on a car full of 40 year old guys on paper for murder and a car full of 17 year old Somali kids with no criminal record, give me the OGs.
All of that said, this specific incident hasn't got anything to do with that. It's a shitshow from the word Go. I don't know enough about national policing to rank my agency among them, but I hardly feel like we're a bunch of all stars. If you showed any part of this video to a competent cop, totally absent the fact that it ended the way it did, they'd tell you every cop in it is comically inept. Not just cruel or aggressive, just totally incompetent. The use of tools (pepper, baton, taser) is completely idiotic and counterproductive. Seriously, I'm not a white woman, but I Just Can't Even.Depends entirely on how many you need, I think. It's kind of a joke in my agency that most of the "black" cops we hire are basically Oreos, as the old slander goes. In my experience, they pan out exactly like you'd expect them to. The ones who came from careers in the financial sector act like that, the ones who "escaped" the ghetto act like that. On the whole, an unimpressive lot, but if you only needed a few and were paying well (as a lot of west coast agencies do) you might do okay. If you need a lot and are paying $20/ hour, I'd be skeptical. If the question is propensity to this kind of violence, I can't say from my experience. What's in this video is so far out of my frame of reference that I'd have thought it was happening in Africa. There is literally no part of it that I can imagine any cop I work with, regardless of skin color, doing. Not just because it's "bad", but because it's stupid.
I would say, to address something Sailer has written, that I'm really skeptical of the value of diversity in agencies. Mine is probably 10%ish black, but it's not like those cops get sent to calls involving black people or assigned to majority black beats. When me and another white cop are on a call with a black suspect, do we somehow give better service because there's this other cop I know who is also black? I've never seen a black suspect who seemed especially impressed that he was getting arrested by a black cop. And how much of a service is it to the black cop when you promote him years before he's ready? One thing about this job, it's really, really hard to hide your incompetence from your co workers.
Anyhow, that's my two cents. For my part, being a GenXer, I enjoy interacting with successful black people. Also, I absolutely dread every call I get sent to involving black people (which is often more than half the calls I go to in my lily-white beat). At this point, near the end of my career, the only people I hate interacting with more than black people are wealthy white people.Replies: @John Johnson, @Jack D, @Jim Don Bob, @Mike Tre
Then perhaps you should forfeit your pension, paid for mostly by wealthy white people, and move to Africa.
As the career long welfare recipient you are, you have much more in common with blacks than you do with whites.
The worst black women reproduce at well above replacement level.
The Defund/“New Jim Crow” narrative is dangerous and is killing thousands, if the GOP majority actually had thinking power they’d hold hearings with known bipartisan people (Bloomberg, Heather MacDonald, etc) opposed to the fallacious propaganda pushed out in sociology classes throughout the country. With a credible enough lens to get by the centrists could be made curriculum material in many states with a blue-ribbon report and documentary supplement for high schools. Inoculating those entering college against this much more useful than any snipe hunt against Hunter Biden. Sadly GOP not interested in addressing the real issues.Replies: @That Would Be Telling
You aren’t from around here, are you?
By that I mean US flyover country where this happened. The very idea of “illegal gun ownership” is much less of a thing in the US outside of the usual Blue hellholes. In Tennessee you don’t need any permission from the state to do anything normal and legal with a gun, including carrying it. The state just settled a lawsuit to include 18-20 year olds in that.
There are wrinkles in that age range in terms of legal purchases, more restrictions to buy from a gun store, and of course it’s generally illegal below age 18 and that’s no small problem, but here we have a 29 year old who as of yet no one is reporting as having a criminal record. Being a felon is of course also a disqualifier, but for that obviously the person has to get a first bite of the criminal apple.
In Jewish Highland Park, Disarm the Enemies, the Populace. (Local Assault Weapon ordinance in effect.)
Get Jewish Governor to Disarm the State's Populace (AW ban), Billionaire Michael Bloomberg Cat's Paw Everytown pulling the strings, amongst others, use the MSM as the Megaphone (WIND-AM 560 Dan Proft: Chicago's MSM is the Democratic Party's Comm Shop.).
Disarmament, a foreign ideology that needs to be purged from the body politic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNLtzbC6_1wReplies: @That Would Be Telling
That’s the only time it happens, and only for a while.
Like Texas for a very long time, the Israeli reputation for civilian gun ownership and use vastly exceeds the reality. Probably has something to do with the country being in a state of civil war between the Left and Right before its founding, and that not uncommonly becomes hot. See the 1995 assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, the causes of which you can trace back at least as far as the 1948 Altalena Affair.
So it turns out Jews pretty much don’t trust anyone not part of the or under the control of the state to posses guns, modulo details I don’t follow closely about “settlers” in the West Bank and such.
That I can’t say, just because my agency doesn’t have enough black officers. Certainly a black cop is less intimidated by the absolutely ubiquitous racism charge, so it’s not hard to imagine them being less careful about some things. Again, though, so many of the black cops in my agency are not “from the neighborhood” that I don’t have anything like the gauge that a cop in the south would.
And I know the Memphis video is a jumping off point to this discussion, but I can’t emphasize strongly enough how totally wild the force in that video is. In general, you don’t see off the reservation bullshit outside of special units, if for no other reason that if you have *any* chance of getting away with something like that it’s because you trust everyone around you. That is almost never the case on patrol in an agency of any size. The blue wall of silence is silly fiction; it’s more about being hesitant to second guess decisions by others in your field based on limited information. It exists in literally every profession. Something like Memphis, if that guy had survived, they’d still have had a lot of explaining to do.
I should have been more specific. The big town/small city I work in is filled with comfortable white people who LOVE black people, in the abstract. They have the signs, flags, etc, and don’t give a rat’s ass what happens to their pets. Since 2020, at work I never eat at a restaurant run by white Americans, because they all hate me. Mexican, Chinese, places run by immigrant whites, black businesses, they’re all fine. Just not places where my food is made by upper middle class Antifa girls with blue hair.
I became a cop over 20 years ago and my sister joined a neighboring agency before that. Both of us were pretty connected in our communities and knew lots of smart, professional people. Both of us are really, really open people who are happy to talk about anything with anyone.
Since 2014, when policing in America became The Most Important Thing Ever, do you know how many of those nice, smart people ever asked either of us a single finger question about law enforcement? None. They made Facebook posts, they retweeted, they had opinions. But no one wanted to get any perspective on it from a couple people doing it every day. Both of us essentially ditched most of our non-cop friends in 2020 because they all gleefully stabbed us in our backs without ever sending a text saying, “Hey, saw this thing, what are your thoughts.” This was the experience of tons of cops I know.
Why? I think people simply don’t want to know the truth. They have an idea the truth is out there and that it’s ugly, so if they can pretend it’s not there and go on believing something that makes them feel good, they’re going to do that. Race in America, and specifically criminal justice, is basically a conspiracy theory at this point. Like the friend who carried on about 5G activating nanobots in your bloodstream.
“…they seem to have focused on a truly innocent man.”
He wasn’t innocent. He resisted arrest.
As Chris Rock pointed out, if the police have to chase you down, they are bringing a beating with them. Being beaten by cops can be hazardous to your health. Don’t resist arrest.
As the career long welfare recipient you are, you have much more in common with blacks than you do with whites.Replies: @Anonymous
Uh huh.
He wasn't innocent. He resisted arrest.
As Chris Rock pointed out, if the police have to chase you down, they are bringing a beating with them. Being beaten by cops can be hazardous to your health. Don't resist arrest.Replies: @Jack D
By the time he ran they had already beaten him , tased him , etc. for no discernable reason.
He was innocent in that they didn’t even have a good reason to stop him in the 1st place.
Do we know that? Why did they stop him? Why were they so jacked up from the get-go?
Black People Kill Black People All the Time, But You Aren’t Allowed to Know That in the NYT
Fact 1. Blacks kill blacks all the time but we aren’t supposed to notice.
Fact 2. Jews own all the media but we aren’t supposed to notice.
Doesn’t Fact 2 explain Fact 1?
Why break the taboo of fact 1 and talk about black crime and violence but refuse to break the taboo of fact 2 and expose the people who enforce the taboos about blacks?
Ignoring Fact 2 while going on and on about Fact 1 is like pot calling the kettle black.
The term 'fact' does not mean what you fancy it means.
So, of course, the good professor follows his own logic and is indifferent to the racial composition of the police force.
Wokesters keep saying we need to have "the uncomfortable conversations," but as soon as they hear discomforting facts, they REEEEEEE. Everything they say is calculated lies.Replies: @David In TN
Try asking a liberal to have a conversation on, say, the Christian-Newsom Knoxville Horror murders. Or the Caitlyn Kaufman murder trial which now goes to the jury.
In the latter, in Nashville, an angelic 22-year old black mile fired six shots into Caitlyn Kaufman’s car because she passed them and supposedly “cut them off.” The defendant testified, admitted to firing the shots. He “just reacted.”
Where is the national conversation?
Sometimes a ghetto black slips through the cracks and gets hired but they don't stay long. One got fired when he threatened to kill the wife and children of his boss. Another one got fired for stealing several thousand dollars. Another one got fired for regularly coming in intoxicated, drinking on the job, and making multiple mistakes on the work. A number get fired for not showing up regularly but that takes a little longer. A management person told me you have to thoroughly document their absences because they pull the race card and say their boss is firing them because he or she is a racist. The person who told me that looked around nervously first to see no one else was in hearing distance. In the federal government you can get in trouble if you talk openly about the problems blacks can cause.Replies: @jinkforp, @Ben the Layabout
I’ve been fortunate to not have many dealings with Blacks in my life, other than the military, but two of the few Blacks I have known have ruined themselves by stupidity. One had a job with the Post Office and got fired for stealing 3rd Class parcels. Another was the local manager of a school bus company, overseeing more than 200 people, who got fired for stealing a few $1000 from the petty cash. From decent, respectable jobs to unemployable thieves. I just don’t know any non-trash White people who’d throw away everything for so little gain.
-Discard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajgeaOt_HTQReplies: @Cool Daddy Jimbo, @Bill Jones
Such a groovy video.
“… they didn’t even have a good reason to stop him in the 1st place.”
Do we know that? Why did they stop him? Why were they so jacked up from the get-go?
https://www.unz.com/isteve/kamalas-13-62-meme/#comment-5461346
tl;dr: something north of $1 trillion/year.Replies: @Arclight
Thanks for the reminder of this past comment. Whatever debt the left thinks blacks are owed, the American public has paid it many times over at this point, and will continue to do so as there is zero interest in reforming black culture to tamp down on criminality and single parenthood.
The civil rights orgs have shifted from claiming that blacks are capable of performing just like whites to just “give us your money” with zero promise that it would improve black behavior our outcomes, since obviously they don’t even believe that themselves for the most part. It’s just a punishment they want to levy on whites against their will, which is the real itch they are trying to scratch.
Grant, for a moment, that there are bad police that cross the line. Grant too, that for whatever reason, mistakes are made. Sometimes suspects get injured or killed through no fault of their own. And in the above cases, it is entirely proper that the police or other agents receive the full punishment of the law.
But here’s a factor that’s overlooked and I almost never see the least mention of it, even here at UR and other scarce places where one is free to speak one’s mind.
Why doesn’t anyone ever mention that, in 99.999% of cases, the problem could have been prevented in the first place by the suspect not behaving like a fucking idiot?
You know that beyond a reasonable doubt?
Since 2014, when policing in America became The Most Important Thing Ever, do you know how many of those nice, smart people ever asked either of us a single finger question about law enforcement? None. They made Facebook posts, they retweeted, they had opinions. But no one wanted to get any perspective on it from a couple people doing it every day. Both of us essentially ditched most of our non-cop friends in 2020 because they all gleefully stabbed us in our backs without ever sending a text saying, "Hey, saw this thing, what are your thoughts." This was the experience of tons of cops I know.
Why? I think people simply don't want to know the truth. They have an idea the truth is out there and that it's ugly, so if they can pretend it's not there and go on believing something that makes them feel good, they're going to do that. Race in America, and specifically criminal justice, is basically a conspiracy theory at this point. Like the friend who carried on about 5G activating nanobots in your bloodstream.Replies: @Mike Tre
“Both of us essentially ditched most of our non-cop friends in 2020 because they all gleefully stabbed us in our backs ”
So cops are the victims? Right, when cops were arresting dads for not wearing masks in a grocery store and or going to a park that was klosed for kovid, or sat back and watched cities get burned down by antifa/BLM scum, or put the hand cuffs on the McMichaels and Bryan, or Rittenhouse, who were actually, you know, trying to protect their community when cops were nowhere to be found, or any number of other immoral and illegal and unconstitutional orders you people carried out without question, because all that matters was your pension. How many speeding tickets did you write in your 20 years? How many of those people were guilty of the high crime of running late to work? How often do you speed? How many exceptions did you provide yourself with in regards to (traffic) laws because you are essentially above the law? How much time did you steal when on duty by hiding out behind some building or just taking the squad car home for a nap?
You’re not a hero, anonymous 363, you are part of the problem. You and all of your cop buddies. Darren Wilson acted correctly in the Brown incident, but if he were still a cop today he’d have been hauling people to jail for not wearing masks just like the rest of you Stasi wannabes.
Sometimes a ghetto black slips through the cracks and gets hired but they don't stay long. One got fired when he threatened to kill the wife and children of his boss. Another one got fired for stealing several thousand dollars. Another one got fired for regularly coming in intoxicated, drinking on the job, and making multiple mistakes on the work. A number get fired for not showing up regularly but that takes a little longer. A management person told me you have to thoroughly document their absences because they pull the race card and say their boss is firing them because he or she is a racist. The person who told me that looked around nervously first to see no one else was in hearing distance. In the federal government you can get in trouble if you talk openly about the problems blacks can cause.Replies: @jinkforp, @Ben the Layabout
The broader problem, you mention it in passing, is affirmative action. Even about the fortunately larger portion of Blacks who are not violent criminals, it’s a sad but true fact that, as a group, they simply aren’t as capable as Whites, or indeed any other ethnic group. While talented and even exceptional Blacks exist of course, they are outliers and as qualifications increase, become rarer even more rapidly so than would Whites. All the foregoing being true, it means that at any given level of presumed competence, it’s a statistical certainty that any random Black will be less competent than any other random non-Black colleague.
I’ve even seen this in my personal life. I volunteer at one local non-profit. My “job” takes me to another one in my small mostly White city. The staff there is virtually 100% White female. Thy hired a Black man who could barely speak intelligibly. He didn’t last a week.
About half the murders, supposedly about half the robberies, about 1/3 of the aggravated assaults, and about 22% of rapes / sexual assault. I don't trust the Bureau of Justice Statistics or the FBI anymore as the former has been working to make it's data more difficult to use and the latter is hiding data altogether. 'Rape' in these reports used to refer to forcible rape, but now they've adopted a broader definition. (The foregoing data points were supposedly compiled from 2018 data).Replies: @Ben the Layabout
Your figures are likely way low. As an opener, consider that the per-capita homicide rate of blacks is nearly ten times that of whites. In an earlier ISteve posting from late 2021, I did a calculation that would seem to suggest that blacks commit 3/4 to 4/5 of all homicides.
https://www.unz.com/isteve/fbi-murders-up-4901-black-share-of-known-murder-offenders-reaches-record-56-5/#comment-4933823
-Discard
About 7x the non-black population up to 2019.Replies: @William Badwhite
The great uncertainty is the 30.7% (2020 figures) that are unknown. Assumptions must be made, but which ones? Here are some options:
Strict proportions: assume Blacks commit the Unknown at same rate as knowns: 49.5%.
Ignore Unknown killings, only compare against known race: 56.5% (Sailer's figure).
Worst case (for Blacks): Assume the commit all "unknown": 68.6%.
There are other factors: We know that many jurisdictions withhold data, quite likely because it reflects poorly on their locale and/or certain races there. We also know that in large metros with larger Black populations, that they commit substantially all the violent crime. For example, Washington DC is about 45% Black and substantially all the murders there are done by same.
Using those above assumptions, it seems reasonable to conclude that upper estimate is the most accurate. I guess 69% of murders is better than 80%, but not by much.Replies: @Steve Sailer
In the latter, in Nashville, an angelic 22-year old black mile fired six shots into Caitlyn Kaufman's car because she passed them and supposedly "cut them off." The defendant testified, admitted to firing the shots. He "just reacted."
Where is the national conversation?Replies: @Ben the Layabout
I’m not even in law, but from your account, the defendant is not only exceptionally stupid, but so is his defense, as the first rule of criminal defense is to never have your client testify. I wonder what twisted series of events happened there?
Closing arguments are being held today. Several Nashville TV stations are streaming.
The defense probably had him testify on the "he has nothing to lose" factor.
Edited for clarity.
Google “Caitlyn Kaufman Nashville”
Closing arguments are being held today. Several Nashville TV stations are streaming.
The defense probably had him testify on the “he has nothing to lose” factor.
https://www.unz.com/isteve/fbi-murders-up-4901-black-share-of-known-murder-offenders-reaches-record-56-5/#comment-4933823Replies: @jinkforp, @Art Deco, @Ben the Layabout
The FBI and other police agencies count Mexican and Puerto Rican criminals as White, thereby inflating White crime rates, concealing Hispanic crimes rates, and reducing the difference between Black and White crime rates. The per capita homicide rate for Blacks is well over ten times the rate for Whites.
-Discard
Fact 1. Blacks kill blacks all the time but we aren't supposed to notice.
Fact 2. Jews own all the media but we aren't supposed to notice.
Doesn't Fact 2 explain Fact 1?
Why break the taboo of fact 1 and talk about black crime and violence but refuse to break the taboo of fact 2 and expose the people who enforce the taboos about blacks?
Ignoring Fact 2 while going on and on about Fact 1 is like pot calling the kettle black.Replies: @Jack D, @Art Deco
Except “Fact” #2 is a lie. Is Jeff Bezos Jewish? Is Carlos Slim Jewish? Is Rupert Murdoch Jewish? Not even the Sulzbergers are Jewish – they’ve been Episcopalian for 2 generations now. ” Jews own all the media” is just simply a lie.
As far as I can tell, Devaunte is taking the rap in order to save the life of his cousin who is also on trial, who he says was driving and had nothing to do with the murder.
In addition, his lawyers are saying that he is not guilty of 1st degree murder, which requires premeditation and intent. Devaunte testified , “I just reacted. I wasn’t thinking about anything.” Very often in death penalty cases where the evidence is strong and you know that your client is going to be convicted anyway, you focus on getting the death penalty off the table. Or Devaunte could have taken the stand against his attorney’s advice in order to save his cousin.
You can make an argument that this was manslaughter – a killing committed in “the heat of passion” without premeditation. However, generally the law requires that circumstances would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed – for example you discover another man in bed with your wife. Someone cutting you off in traffic does not qualify.
The defense hopes for a manslaughter verdict, second degree at least. The prosecution argued that Hill firing six times meant intent to kill. And premeditation can occur in a split second.
First Degree Murder
Second Degree Murder
Facilitation of First Degree Murder
Facilitation of Second Degree Murder
Voluntary Manslaughter
Facilitation of Voluntary Manslaughter
Reckless Homicide
Criminally Negligent Homicide
Not GuiltyReplies: @David In TN
The problem isn’t racism, it is the breakdown of the black American family. It is the violence of these young people that is exploited and directed against their own by the Democrat Plantation that is at the root of this epidemic of violence.
And, yes, there are bad cops who should never wear a uniform. However, in this case, the pandemic and the ongoing attempt to erase normalcy and to subjugate Americans have resulted in the recruiting of thugs. Read up on the shootings by white cops of unarmed Americans and you will see a disturbing trend and an absolute rejection of morality and integrity on the part of America’s largest police depts. It is not southern police departments that have a problem with cops killing people, it is largely Democrat controlled blue jurisdictions, cities, and states where these excesses occur all too frequently. Gov’t will always protect the bad cop, because of lawsuits, so any killing is always a justified shooting or beating. Hard to go against the system.
What is the solution, get rid of the Democrats in elected office, end the 1033 program, or end the training by SF or LI instructions. Cops are not soldiers and should not be used in that capacity. End the overwhelming force doctine that sees dozens of heavily armed police officers in full battle rattle descending upon a residence for a misdemeanor warrant.
And, enforce the gun laws in these cities. No felon should have a firearm, but their violence is being used to impose regulation and seizure of lawfully owned weapons by the law abiding. A cynical and evil attempt to breakdown the 2A.
The black community needs to return to God and to restore the traditional family. Abortion and a get out of jail card because your ass is black has created generations of entitled morons who are irresponsible and dangerous. The fact that they kill more of their own kind is not entirely a reflection on the failures of their parents, black society, but rather a fact of life in gangs that fight over turf to sell drugs. That is what the violence is American cities is all about, drugs. Wars over turf to sell to the white liberal yuppies who can’t otherwise deal with daily life.
Mom and dad, not just mom is needed in the family in order for junior and sister to follow the straight and narrow, good examples and role models, not excuses and lies from liberal politicians.
It is well established that gangs look for and recruit kids from single parent families. The gang replaces the absent father. Single parent families don’t work as an alternative to the traditional family. British studies established this years ago.
The police chief is the dog of the mayor in these places. One fix is an elected police chief who is independent, like the elected constitutional sheriff, whose job is to maintain the public peace and order, and not to generate revenue for the city. Further, electing the police chief give the people of that jurisdiction a say in how their police dept. should operate. Further, in a riot, the cops w0uld not be the pawn of the mayor or a governor and ordered to fall back and let the city burn. Policies need to be effected that hold officers accountable for a questionable killing of an unarmed civilian. Further cops should be fired who clearly violate their rules of engagement. However, now, the violence serves the communist Democrat’s strategy of divide and conquer.
Our schools need to go back to teaching literacy, not ideology and reinforce the traditional family, traditional marriage and pride in self, family and country. Color should never be a reason for discrimination.
However, given the violence in the black communities, especially against the police, is what happened to the young man at issue really a surprise? Look to Africa, such conduct against members of the opposition tribe by gov’t forces who usually comprise the majority tribe is all too prevalent. Can we expect any difference when we allow a lack of accountability and responsibility, and excuse violence from one segment of the population based upon color?
Black Americans who vote Democrat are simply useful idiots. Until they figure it out and stop voting for those who openly support violence against the rest of the country by this segment, what happened will continue.
White flight happens for a reason, people don’t want shot robbed assaulted intimidated, have to pick up other people’s garbage and liquor bottles and put up with 3AM party noise and pay hospital bills and funeral expenses for casualties of gang wars or perpetual welfare. There is a culture issue here that the black community needs to address openly and frankly and stop blaming white people.
As the moment (4:40 p.n. CT) the jury is deliberating. I don’t know what the jury makeup is. There were Nashville jury panels bused to Knoxville several times during the Christian-Newsom trials. The judges said it was due to Nashville-Davidson County being more “diverse.”
The defense hopes for a manslaughter verdict, second degree at least. The prosecution argued that Hill firing six times meant intent to kill. And premeditation can occur in a split second.
Fact 1. Blacks kill blacks all the time but we aren't supposed to notice.
Fact 2. Jews own all the media but we aren't supposed to notice.
Doesn't Fact 2 explain Fact 1?
Why break the taboo of fact 1 and talk about black crime and violence but refuse to break the taboo of fact 2 and expose the people who enforce the taboos about blacks?
Ignoring Fact 2 while going on and on about Fact 1 is like pot calling the kettle black.Replies: @Jack D, @Art Deco
Fact 2. Jews own all the media
The term ‘fact’ does not mean what you fancy it means.
https://www.unz.com/isteve/fbi-murders-up-4901-black-share-of-known-murder-offenders-reaches-record-56-5/#comment-4933823Replies: @jinkforp, @Art Deco, @Ben the Layabout
As an opener, consider that the per-capita homicide rate of blacks is nearly ten times that of whites.
About 7x the non-black population up to 2019.
Impulse control can be your friend, if you just let it.
-DiscardReplies: @bomag
The thrill of pilfering is a thing. Exists in all races; seems a standard deviation higher in Blacks.
No. It’s we whites by a landslide. See—imperialism.Replies: @AceDeuce, @bomag
With whom have you been 'interacting'?Replies: @John Johnson
With whom have you been ‘interacting’?
I’ve had to deal with wealthy Whites through business and I also used to vacation in an area that had a lot of them.
It’s the inheritance factor that makes them insufferable.
They never had to work a real job or learn people skills.
I’d rather hang out with troof if the income is over 300k or a large net worth.
The sweet spot for White people is around 100-200k. Small business owners and such that have had to work.
Conservatives are idiots for constantly backing the 1%. They are the worst and their taxes should be increased. Polls show that around half of them vote Democrat.
In Tennessee a jury has a wide choice of options. For the Cailtlyn Kaufman trial:
First Degree Murder
Second Degree Murder
Facilitation of First Degree Murder
Facilitation of Second Degree Murder
Voluntary Manslaughter
Facilitation of Voluntary Manslaughter
Reckless Homicide
Criminally Negligent Homicide
Not Guilty
The killers' family members were exultant, laughing with joy.Replies: @Jack D
Black people murder each other all the time. Beat this by hiring black people who grew up with a 1. father and mother 2. got an assoc degree in police science 3. have a flawless criminal record. 4. have an intense desire to climb the promotional ladder and marry producing kids 5. are committed Christians. Don’t bother if the city council/mayor is black.
I've even seen this in my personal life. I volunteer at one local non-profit. My "job" takes me to another one in my small mostly White city. The staff there is virtually 100% White female. Thy hired a Black man who could barely speak intelligibly. He didn't last a week.Replies: @John Johnson
While talented and even exceptional Blacks exist of course, they are outliers and as qualifications increase, become rarer even more rapidly so than would Whites.
Ironically because of integration the talented Blacks have been able to leave Black areas. Middle class Blacks don’t want their kids in Black schools and unlike liberal Whites don’t have any guilt issues over the subject. Liberal Whites will at least try and then after a few incidents will “just happen” to find that job in Montana. They always have a story ready for why they left an urban area. Nathan really likes skiing and we’re closer to his parents. Xandar also likes skiing so I can’t deprive him of skiing with his dad. Then they will talk about how they miss the diversity.
I’ve even seen this in my personal life. I volunteer at one local non-profit. My “job” takes me to another one in my small mostly White city. The staff there is virtually 100% White female. Thy hired a Black man who could barely speak intelligibly. He didn’t last a week.
I guarantee it has happened to them multiple times. White liberal women dominate the non-profit world. As with education they see it as their domain and don’t give a flying fudge about what is true or false. They will carry on the crusade as long as the paychecks can be cashed.
A wrongful traffic stop is not a (big) crime. Beating someone to death IS a crime. Regardless of how this started, these cops are going down for murder. I don’t determine reasonable doubt – a jury will. But I wouldn’t want to be one of those cops right now. Everyone in America (hell, half the people on the planet – people in Timbuktu know about this case) wants their ass – the left wing, the right wing, the blacks, the whites. To the left and blacks, they are cops. To the right, they are blacks. They have no friends.
So far, the video evidence appears to show that the cops were lying when they wrote up their initial report. “He was reaching for a gun.” Back in the day, cops used to lie like this all the time. 5 cops all say X, the dead man says nothing, case dismissed. Nowadays everyone up and down the street has cameras – doorbell cams, security cams, cell phone cams (not to mention the cops own body cams) so it’s a lot harder to get away with this stuff.
https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/327343566_512767037661778_5409200264571958392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=973b4a&_nc_ohc=wZFTPVhHfE0AX839rSH&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfCre2bEYKsfuR3wNtw7sRoDTZrnxZGrbqqs-Dm_vweyhw&oe=63DDC5FD
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/30/us/tyre-nichols-arrest-videos.html
I've had to deal with wealthy Whites through business and I also used to vacation in an area that had a lot of them.
It's the inheritance factor that makes them insufferable.
They never had to work a real job or learn people skills.
I'd rather hang out with troof if the income is over 300k or a large net worth.
The sweet spot for White people is around 100-200k. Small business owners and such that have had to work.
Conservatives are idiots for constantly backing the 1%. They are the worst and their taxes should be increased. Polls show that around half of them vote Democrat.Replies: @Art Deco
It wasn’t an invitation for you to restate your original assertion.
“The thrill of pilfering is a thing. Exists in all races; seems a standard deviation higher in Blacks.”
No. It’s we whites by a landslide. See—imperialism.
Also, are you living on "stolen land"? Please leave, if so.
No. It’s we whites by a landslide. See—imperialism.Replies: @AceDeuce, @bomag
Should be “us Whites” in this sentence, I believe.
Also, are you living on “stolen land”? Please leave, if so.
Agree! & Thanks! ☮
And, yes, there are bad cops who should never wear a uniform. However, in this case, the pandemic and the ongoing attempt to erase normalcy and to subjugate Americans have resulted in the recruiting of thugs. Read up on the shootings by white cops of unarmed Americans and you will see a disturbing trend and an absolute rejection of morality and integrity on the part of America's largest police depts. It is not southern police departments that have a problem with cops killing people, it is largely Democrat controlled blue jurisdictions, cities, and states where these excesses occur all too frequently. Gov't will always protect the bad cop, because of lawsuits, so any killing is always a justified shooting or beating. Hard to go against the system.
What is the solution, get rid of the Democrats in elected office, end the 1033 program, or end the training by SF or LI instructions. Cops are not soldiers and should not be used in that capacity. End the overwhelming force doctine that sees dozens of heavily armed police officers in full battle rattle descending upon a residence for a misdemeanor warrant.
And, enforce the gun laws in these cities. No felon should have a firearm, but their violence is being used to impose regulation and seizure of lawfully owned weapons by the law abiding. A cynical and evil attempt to breakdown the 2A.
The black community needs to return to God and to restore the traditional family. Abortion and a get out of jail card because your ass is black has created generations of entitled morons who are irresponsible and dangerous. The fact that they kill more of their own kind is not entirely a reflection on the failures of their parents, black society, but rather a fact of life in gangs that fight over turf to sell drugs. That is what the violence is American cities is all about, drugs. Wars over turf to sell to the white liberal yuppies who can't otherwise deal with daily life.
Mom and dad, not just mom is needed in the family in order for junior and sister to follow the straight and narrow, good examples and role models, not excuses and lies from liberal politicians.
It is well established that gangs look for and recruit kids from single parent families. The gang replaces the absent father. Single parent families don't work as an alternative to the traditional family. British studies established this years ago.
The police chief is the dog of the mayor in these places. One fix is an elected police chief who is independent, like the elected constitutional sheriff, whose job is to maintain the public peace and order, and not to generate revenue for the city. Further, electing the police chief give the people of that jurisdiction a say in how their police dept. should operate. Further, in a riot, the cops w0uld not be the pawn of the mayor or a governor and ordered to fall back and let the city burn. Policies need to be effected that hold officers accountable for a questionable killing of an unarmed civilian. Further cops should be fired who clearly violate their rules of engagement. However, now, the violence serves the communist Democrat's strategy of divide and conquer.
Our schools need to go back to teaching literacy, not ideology and reinforce the traditional family, traditional marriage and pride in self, family and country. Color should never be a reason for discrimination.
However, given the violence in the black communities, especially against the police, is what happened to the young man at issue really a surprise? Look to Africa, such conduct against members of the opposition tribe by gov't forces who usually comprise the majority tribe is all too prevalent. Can we expect any difference when we allow a lack of accountability and responsibility, and excuse violence from one segment of the population based upon color?
Black Americans who vote Democrat are simply useful idiots. Until they figure it out and stop voting for those who openly support violence against the rest of the country by this segment, what happened will continue.Replies: @Yngvar
Policing is based on experience. When one too many policemen are shot dead while handing over a summons, the SWAT-team quickly takes over that function.
No. It’s we whites by a landslide. See—imperialism.Replies: @AceDeuce, @bomag
Have to factor in capability. Whites are highly capable in comparison, so when they go pilfering, they “tower over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible.”
When other groups go pilfering, they go closer to their max capability.
Also, Whites are magnanimous to a fault. Colonialism and Imperialism was a value transference program from Western man to the rest of the world.
So it’s good to know that you ultimately side with globalists and neo cons. We always knew you were partial to their ways.
As far as white capability, they heavily relied on Muslim, Indian (dot), and Chinese innovations.
“When other groups go pilfering, they go closer to their max capability.”
Right, to take by force what is not their own. Might make right, which is the mantra of Jews and neo cons. You’re really a fan of globohom after all!
“Also, Whites are magnanimous to a fault. Colonialism and Imperialism was a value transference program from Western man to the rest of the world.”
It was the forced transfer of wealth from resource rich regions to Europeans.
About 7x the non-black population up to 2019.Replies: @William Badwhite
He said “whites”, you responded with “non-black”. Those do not mean the same thing.
Impulse control can be your friend, if you just let it.
“Whites are highly capable in comparison, so when they go pilfering, they “tower over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible.””
So it’s good to know that you ultimately side with globalists and neo cons. We always knew you were partial to their ways.
As far as white capability, they heavily relied on Muslim, Indian (dot), and Chinese innovations.
“When other groups go pilfering, they go closer to their max capability.”
Right, to take by force what is not their own. Might make right, which is the mantra of Jews and neo cons. You’re really a fan of globohom after all!
“Also, Whites are magnanimous to a fault. Colonialism and Imperialism was a value transference program from Western man to the rest of the world.”
It was the forced transfer of wealth from resource rich regions to Europeans.
If you run you will just die tired
Also, Whites are magnanimous to a fault. Colonialism and Imperialism was a value transference program from Western man to the rest of the world.
The non-White world wants it all.
They want all the gadgets and life saving medicine that the White man created and they want his current paycheck as well. They also want the “unfair” history of Whites to somehow be mitigated even if it means denigrating modern Whites to help with the acceptance.
Why wouldn’t they? Why do so many conservatives think non-Whites will just shrug at history and go about their day?
A big problem with modern conservatism is that it doesn’t have a solution to non-White envy and especially in third world countries.
You can give them a thousand lectures on the principles of free markets and conservative goodism but the liberal message of “they owe you some shit” will still better resonate with their feelings of resentment.
Modern conservatism is built upon race denial. It assumes the entity of overbearing government is the problem and these third world countries just need to be unlocked into their full potential. I have pointed out to conservatives that Haiti and Liberia were capitalist countries before the USSR even existed. They immediately go into excuses about how corruption must be the cause. They have to believe it is the structure or else their belief system runs into major problems….which it has.
“Complex” as in Underpants gnome complexity.
Simple:
1. White cop kills black man.
2. All Whites are racist.
Complex:
1. Black cops kill black man.
2. Some things must have happened.
3. All Whites are racist.
Segregation now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajgeaOt_HTQReplies: @Cool Daddy Jimbo, @Bill Jones
“We” of course excludes the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Ukraine etc etc
I know 2 people who collect disability from military service. Both are physically healthy, work normal jobs, have families, own houses, etc, just normal people. I think nowdays just that fact that you were dumb enough to join the military qualifies you for disability.
Me, too. But military disability is not all or nothing. I know a guy who gets 30% because he got TB in the service. This table shows that he gets $508 a month which is not nothing, but 100% disability is $3600+.
This will happen soon and in fact is nothing new under the sun. The era of relative good-feeling, safety, and falling crime we grew accustomed to from, say, 1993 to 2014 will prove a cyclical aberration as overcredenutialed upper middle class sh!tlibs take up the same “criminals are the victims of society” clarion their grandparents did in the DIRTY HARRY, MAGNUM FORCE, TAXI DRIVER 60’s and 70’s .Replies: @Sun Reader, @Joe Stalin, @CalCooledge
Blacks commit disproportionate crime.
Therefore police arrest blacks disproportionately.
Therefore the concept of ‘crime’ must be abolished because it’s racist.
.
Modern American Logic. But the process is already underway.
“Black criminality is the real problem not police brutality.”
.
You know you live in a F’ed up country when an obviously true statement (above) is banned from consideration.
.
In a decent country, that sentence would be the headline of every editorial after a police-black incident.
First Degree Murder
Second Degree Murder
Facilitation of First Degree Murder
Facilitation of Second Degree Murder
Voluntary Manslaughter
Facilitation of Voluntary Manslaughter
Reckless Homicide
Criminally Negligent Homicide
Not GuiltyReplies: @David In TN
If anyone cares, in the Caitlyn Kaufman murder trial, the shooter was convicted of second degree murder instead of first degree which the evidence indicated. The driver was acquitted of all charges.
The killers’ family members were exultant, laughing with joy.
That they let the other guy go is a travesty. He apparently drove alongside Kaufman so that Hill could shoot at her. At the very least he was some kind of accessory. Afterward, he set his car on fire in order to cover up the crime.
If I have to guess, it was a racially mixed jury and 2nd degree was a compromise verdict because half the jury want to acquit both men as not guilty by reason of being black.Replies: @David In TN
The killers' family members were exultant, laughing with joy.Replies: @Jack D
The death penalty for both would have been more appropriate, but 15 to 25 years for Hill (what he is going to get for 2nd degree) ain’t chopped liver. In a lot of countries, that’s all you get for murder anyway.
That they let the other guy go is a travesty. He apparently drove alongside Kaufman so that Hill could shoot at her. At the very least he was some kind of accessory. Afterward, he set his car on fire in order to cover up the crime.
If I have to guess, it was a racially mixed jury and 2nd degree was a compromise verdict because half the jury want to acquit both men as not guilty by reason of being black.
Several things to unpack. In the Christian-Newsom Knoxville Horror torture-murder trials, which I assisted Nicholas Stix in covering, there were Nashville juries bused to Knoxville. The judges wanted the juries to have as many blacks as possible. This resulted in some compromises. The female defendant was found not guilty of murder, but guilty of "facilitation."
The news stories for the Caitlyn Kaufman trial never gave the racial makeup of the jury. It was probably around 50-50 based on the Knoxville Horror trials. It might have been majority-black.
The "she cut us off" story is from the defendants. Caitlyn Kaufman wasn't alive to tell her side. Hill testified to "reacting," but not "intending to kill." So you fire six shots and don't mean to kill somebody?
Hill said he happened to have the gun in his lap. The driver (Cowan) pulled along side of Kaufman. This meant they could see her, which helps explain what happened.
With a 15 or 25 year sentence, he comes up for parole after seven or eight.Replies: @Joe Joe
That they let the other guy go is a travesty. He apparently drove alongside Kaufman so that Hill could shoot at her. At the very least he was some kind of accessory. Afterward, he set his car on fire in order to cover up the crime.
If I have to guess, it was a racially mixed jury and 2nd degree was a compromise verdict because half the jury want to acquit both men as not guilty by reason of being black.Replies: @David In TN
Thanks.
Several things to unpack. In the Christian-Newsom Knoxville Horror torture-murder trials, which I assisted Nicholas Stix in covering, there were Nashville juries bused to Knoxville. The judges wanted the juries to have as many blacks as possible. This resulted in some compromises. The female defendant was found not guilty of murder, but guilty of “facilitation.”
The news stories for the Caitlyn Kaufman trial never gave the racial makeup of the jury. It was probably around 50-50 based on the Knoxville Horror trials. It might have been majority-black.
The “she cut us off” story is from the defendants. Caitlyn Kaufman wasn’t alive to tell her side. Hill testified to “reacting,” but not “intending to kill.” So you fire six shots and don’t mean to kill somebody?
Hill said he happened to have the gun in his lap. The driver (Cowan) pulled along side of Kaufman. This meant they could see her, which helps explain what happened.
With a 15 or 25 year sentence, he comes up for parole after seven or eight.
Several things to unpack. In the Christian-Newsom Knoxville Horror torture-murder trials, which I assisted Nicholas Stix in covering, there were Nashville juries bused to Knoxville. The judges wanted the juries to have as many blacks as possible. This resulted in some compromises. The female defendant was found not guilty of murder, but guilty of "facilitation."
The news stories for the Caitlyn Kaufman trial never gave the racial makeup of the jury. It was probably around 50-50 based on the Knoxville Horror trials. It might have been majority-black.
The "she cut us off" story is from the defendants. Caitlyn Kaufman wasn't alive to tell her side. Hill testified to "reacting," but not "intending to kill." So you fire six shots and don't mean to kill somebody?
Hill said he happened to have the gun in his lap. The driver (Cowan) pulled along side of Kaufman. This meant they could see her, which helps explain what happened.
With a 15 or 25 year sentence, he comes up for parole after seven or eight.Replies: @Joe Joe
Hopefully the infamy of this murderer will keep him from getting parole. Of course that might not be guaranteed as Mohammed Noor, the murderer of Justine Damond in Minneapolis had his 10 year sentence for murder reduced to 5 years for manslaughter by a liberal sap of a judge!!!
https://www.unz.com/isteve/fbi-murders-up-4901-black-share-of-known-murder-offenders-reaches-record-56-5/#comment-4933823Replies: @jinkforp, @Art Deco, @Ben the Layabout
Correction: I made the assertion that the Black murder rate may be as high as 80% and linked to an earlier posting. I looked at this again and believe I erred: I failed to use the correct denominator (I failed to include the unknowns.) I re-did my figures, and came up with ones that put Blacks in a (slightly) better light:
The great uncertainty is the 30.7% (2020 figures) that are unknown. Assumptions must be made, but which ones? Here are some options:
Strict proportions: assume Blacks commit the Unknown at same rate as knowns: 49.5%.
Ignore Unknown killings, only compare against known race: 56.5% (Sailer’s figure).
Worst case (for Blacks): Assume the commit all “unknown”: 68.6%.
There are other factors: We know that many jurisdictions withhold data, quite likely because it reflects poorly on their locale and/or certain races there. We also know that in large metros with larger Black populations, that they commit substantially all the violent crime. For example, Washington DC is about 45% Black and substantially all the murders there are done by same.
Using those above assumptions, it seems reasonable to conclude that upper estimate is the most accurate. I guess 69% of murders is better than 80%, but not by much.
The great uncertainty is the 30.7% (2020 figures) that are unknown. Assumptions must be made, but which ones? Here are some options:
Strict proportions: assume Blacks commit the Unknown at same rate as knowns: 49.5%.
Ignore Unknown killings, only compare against known race: 56.5% (Sailer's figure).
Worst case (for Blacks): Assume the commit all "unknown": 68.6%.
There are other factors: We know that many jurisdictions withhold data, quite likely because it reflects poorly on their locale and/or certain races there. We also know that in large metros with larger Black populations, that they commit substantially all the violent crime. For example, Washington DC is about 45% Black and substantially all the murders there are done by same.
Using those above assumptions, it seems reasonable to conclude that upper estimate is the most accurate. I guess 69% of murders is better than 80%, but not by much.Replies: @Steve Sailer
Thanks for the analysis.
“We know that many jurisdictions withhold data, quite likely because it reflects poorly on their locale and/or certain races there.”
My guess is that recent lack of coverage in FBI crime stats is more random than racial. It has to do with the FBI asking for years for a boring methodological change involving how to count incidents with multiple offenses (that I’ve never seen anybody suggest is racially motivated) and local police departments not getting around to do it.
In general, cops tend not to be Moneyball stat nerds. Bill Bratton’s Compstat system was achieved because he could find 6 NYPD officers out of 40,000 who liked computers and stats to build it for him. (That it was built by cops rather than by consultants helped it get used by the rank and file.)
For decades. Everyone agreed to update this late 1920s system in 1988. I’ve seen Federal and state level computer systems procurement up close and personal. I’d expect the steep decline in quality between those two to generally continue to municipalities.