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Biden Mandates Vaccines for 80 Million Workers
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From the A ssociated Press:

Sweeping new vaccine mandates for 100 million Americans
By ZEKE MILLER
10 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — In his most forceful pandemic actions and words, President Joe Biden on Thursday announced sweeping new federal vaccine requirements affecting as many as 100 million Americans in an all-out effort to increase COVID-19 vaccinations and curb the surging delta variant.

Speaking at the White House, Biden sharply criticized the roughly 80 million Americans who are not yet vaccinated, despite months of availability and incentives.

“We’ve been patient. But our patience is wearing thin, and your refusal has cost all of us,” he said, all but biting off his words. The unvaccinated minority “can cause a lot of damage, and they are.”

The expansive rules mandate that all employers with more than 100 workers require them to be vaccinated or test for the virus weekly, affecting about 80 million Americans. And the roughly 17 million workers at health facilities that receive federal Medicare or Medicaid also will have to be fully vaccinated.

I see only religious and medical exemptions listed. What about exemptions for having already having had a documented case of covid and still having natural antibodies against it? What about an exemption for being, say, male, under 30, and with a BMI under 25? What about a medical exemption for the second dose people who have a bad adverse event reaction following the first dose?

Apparently, the Biden Administration is uninterested in offering reasonable compromises that would suggest it is listening to the vaccine unenthusiastic. Instead, the politics are to propound that there are no reasonable objections to vaccinations. Similarly, the Biden Administration doesn’t want to distract from vaccines by emphasizing simple things you can do, like go outside or lose some weight, or more long shot possibilities like ivermectin or even monoclonal antibodies.

Just two months ago Biden prematurely declared the nation’s “independence” from the virus. Now, despite more than 208 million Americans having at least one dose of the vaccines, the U.S. is seeing about 300% more new COVID-19 infections a day, about two-and-a-half times more hospitalizations, and nearly twice the number of deaths compared to the same time last year.

“We are in the tough stretch and it could last for a while,” Biden said of the current state of the pandemic.

One question is whether the Delta wave is currently already sputtering out. I’ve been following Missouri, where the Delta wave got started about three months ago and new cases are in steady decline. Next door in Arkansas, the second state of the Delta wave, cases have been falling for four weeks now.

Similarly, Louisiana, the 3rd Delta state, is well down from it’s mid-August new case peak, but who knows what’s going on lately with the Labor Day Weekend. Sure, covid is an immense national crisis and all that, but you can’t expect public health officials to work over a three day weekend, now can you. So we’ll have a better sense by Friday of the actual trends rather than of reported numbers jerked around bureaucrats taking time off:

The weather is finally beginning to cool down south so people are less likely to huddle together in the air-conditioned indoors with all the windows shut. Also, how close are we getting to some degree of herd immunity after four waves?

So it would seem as if the Biden Administration is intent on slamming the barn door shut after the Delta horse is gone and announcing victory due to its Strong Steps.

By the way, the single least intrusive and probably most effective non-pharmaceutical intervention would be a campaign encouraging people to Do More Stuff Outdoors and Keep a Window Open Indoors Until Winter Gets Frigid. Sure, the latter would waste energy on A/C and heat which would exacerbate climate change and all that, but still …

Another question is whether there will be an autumn-winter Delta wave in the heavily vaccinated northern states once the weather cools in, say, October and people huddle together indoors more.

A big question is the waning of efficacy of the Pfizer vaccines in protecting recipients against infection and to a lesser extent hospitalization. Israel got a lot of people vaccinated with Pfizer as early as January 2021, and they now appear to have a sizable problem with the vaccines wearing out after about a half year.

Another question is how much the vaccine reduces the spread of Delta. Back during the halcyon days of the classic covid coke era of vaccines in the winter of 2021 before Delta emerged in India, the vaccines seemed to cut the chances of spreading covid considerably. But the Delta version is so infectious that even at full efficacy, that’s no longer as true.

There are basically four reasons for getting vaccinated:

  1. Pro-Self: Lower your chance per year of catching and being hospitalized by a nasty vascular disease that’s not the Black Death, but not just the flu, bro either.
  2. Pro-Social: Don’t overcrowd hospitals by coming down with covid during big waves when most people get it.
  3. Pro-Social: Don’t be a burden on society for your medical bills.
  4. Pro-Social: Reduce your chance of spreading covid to those around you, especially your loved ones who resist being vaccinated.
  5. Pro-Social: Reducing the chance of the covid case rollercoaster shooting upwards again by helping driving R-nought below 1.0.

On the other hand, some of these don’t work as well for Delta as they did in the spring: efficacy is down, the endurance of efficacy is down, and infectiousness of the vaccinated is up.

The likelihood of making covid disappear by permanently getting R0 below 1.0 seems implausible with Delta (without a vaccine optimized for Delta, which might happen or might not, or the disease mutating again in who knows what direction). This suggests you’ll likely get infected with covid at some point. The good news is that infection while vaccinated is considerably less likely to be severe. And then you get natural immunity for at least awhile.

 
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  1. Bill P says:

    Notice the timing of this. The current echo wave of infections has peaked and will drop over the next few weeks. The admin can then claim credit for “leadership.” Subsequent waves are bound to peter out in time as more and more of the population has some degree of natural immunity.

    This is a political gamble.

  2. Discrimination against those who hold a particular creed.

    No federal employment or contracting, and no employment at private firms with > \$2M in annual sales, to those who:

    • refuse to get an abortion.
    • won’t wear a helmet while being a passenger in a motorized vehicle.
    • get themselves, or their kids circumcised.
    • oppose public education, e.g. homeschool.

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @Zhora Misha
  3. anonymous[137] • Disclaimer says:

    Defiance from USA state governors immediately poured in against Biden’s just-announced national vaccine dictat … This is a civil war scenario

    Twitter statements, all of US state governors, below … just about a third of the states in the country, the ‘heartland’

    “Rest assured, we will fight them to the gates of hell to protect the liberty and livelihood of every South Carolinian.”
    – SC South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster

    ‘outrageous, overreaching’
    AL – https://twitter.com/governorkayivey/status/1436091604704665607

    ‘dictatorial approach’
    AZ – https://twitter.com/dougducey/status/1436061815419523075

    ‘government overreach’
    AR – https://twitter.com/asahutchinson/status/1436084493002100738

    ‘Biden talks tougher to governors than to Taliban’
    GA – https://twitter.com/briankempga/status/1436104443666251777

    ‘government overreach’
    ID – https://twitter.com/governorlittle/status/1436087400254427136

    ‘President has no authority … unconstitutional … terrifying’
    MS – https://twitter.com/tatereeves/status/1436081918982897667

    ‘federal power grab’
    MO – https://twitter.com/govparsonmo/status/1436091507690278913

    ‘unlawful and un-American’
    MT – https://twitter.com/govgianforte/status/1436081801227685888

    ‘will stand up to Biden’s overreach’
    NE – https://twitter.com/govricketts/status/1436087525957906436

    ‘not the role of federal government’
    ND – https://twitter.com/dougburgum/status/1436100254701600768

    ‘will defend and fight back against Biden overreach’
    OK – https://twitter.com/govstitt/status/1436080974731825154

    ‘fight them to the gates of hell’
    SC – https://twitter.com/henrymcmaster/status/1436074995374039045

    ‘will stand up to defend freedom’
    SD – https://twitter.com/govkristinoem/status/1436060414970892288

    ‘Constitution won’t allow this power grab’
    TN – https://twitter.com/GovBillLee/status/1436110064587247616

    ‘already working to halt this power grab’
    TX – https://twitter.com/gregabbott_tx/status/1436104824660049921

    ‘prepared to take all actions to oppose this administration’s unconstitutional overreach of executive power. It has no place in America. Not now, and not ever.’
    WY – https://twitter.com/governorgordon/status/1436092158960824334

  4. The President will now take some questions.

    Reporter: “Mr. Biden, why were/are the PCR Tests run at such a high cycle threshold? A follow up to it, with 85% false positives, when will the official death and case count be revised?”

    Biden: (craps his depends, walks off stage)

    Thank you that concludes the questions segment.

  5. There are basically four (sic) reasons for getting vaccinated:

    Hey, I’ll bet there were four hundred reasons (many of them “social”) for supporting the Bolsheviks. We can list reasons all day. But we only need one reason to be against despotism.

    As for the world government’s Covid scam and forced vaccination program, we know what side you’re on. It’s the biggest miss of your life, so maybe just drop it.

  6. This certainly infringes on personal autonomy; I say that as someone who is vaccinated and encourages everyone else to get vaccinated for the reasons outlined above.

    However, this isn’t anything new: the horse left the barn a long time ago. The federal government has been chipping away at basic freedoms at least since the 1960s, it took away freedom of association through civil rights law. It took away the ability to run your business as you see fit, hire whom you please, take and refuse business at your discretion, all these freedoms are long gone. Through the department of education they control what sorts of research and teaching is acceptable and what is not, etc., etc. There is no aspect of your life that they aren’t intimately involved in.

    So vaccination mandates are just one more brick in the wall, and if you want to oppose these sorts of things I would encourage people to pick their battles wisely. Getting everybody vaccinated would actually be a net positive for society. Requiring everybody to wear motorcycle helmets would be a net positive for society. Mandating standards for safety, fuel efficiency, etc., in cars, regulating addictive substances, all of these have a net positive effect for society, although they do curtail individual freedom.

    On the other hand, humiliating and bankrupting random Christian bakers is not a net positive for society. Affirmative action in education and government contracting is not a net positive for society. Teaching that whites are the root of all evil in public school is not a net positive for society. These things curtail individual freedom AND they damage society. They are not a trade-off, they are a punch in the face.

    Think hard about which battle your enemy wants you to fight.

  7. Biden’s handlers:

    “Well, he’s already super-unpopular and getting worse by the day, he looks like the demented old corrupt fool he is, Afghanistan has really hurt him and made him look like a horrid uncaring cad, and we’re going to 25th Amendment him/get him to resign anyway. Let’s do this super-unpopular mandate on his watch so he can take the crushing blow and then Kamala can lift it.”

    Of course, they also could be so stupid as to think this won’t bring about violent resistance.

  8. zacie says:

    The COVID-conservatives were willing to trade their liberty for safety, and now they have neither liberty nor safety. Those who gave an ounce of oxygen to the “pandemic” need to sit down, and shut up.
    You are done.

    • Agree: Yancey Ward, Travis
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    , @TWS
  9. I. Racist says:

    “long shot possibilities like ivermectin or even monoclonal antibodies”

    With a survival rate of 99.x%, even doing nothing isn’t a long shot.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    , @NOTA
  10. What about an exemption for being, say, male, under 30, and with a BMI under 25?

    Profiling by sex is a one-way street.

    • Replies: @epebble
    , @Jack D
  11. @SimpleSong

    Which battles to fight… I disagree with you that mass mandated covid vaccinations are a net positive for a number of reasons, however, even if they were, this sets a dangerous precedent for the future. Nearly every controversial government policy is created with the best intentions (or so they say) but quickly become perverted. What will be the next health mandate? Do you think they’re just going to end this with Covid? Aren’t you concerned that there’s nearly a new variant coming every month now and they’re talking about multiple booster shots annually without end? I honestly don’t see a more pressing issue than this at the moment. The time to fight against White genocide was decades ago, that battle has been lost. At least the fight against medical tyranny is currently winnable.

    We’re at war, act like it.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  12. epebble says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    What about exemptions for having already having had a documented case of covid and still having natural antibodies against it?

    What about an exemption for being, say, male, under 30, and with a BMI under 25?

    How will you document these? Get a periodic medical report from a clinic?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  13. This isn’t about getting everybody vaccinated. It’s utterly unconvincing when you are telling someone to do something for their own benefit, while you are sneering at them.

    This is about assigning blame when the vaccines fail and things go to shit. Get ready for the message to go out, from all the deep state media organs, that has the same intent as “cut down the tall trees”.

    • Replies: @Ragno
  14. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Are males less at risk from Covid than females? Why an exemption for males?

  15. Anon[364] • Disclaimer says:

    People keep saying that the Dems, the President, whomever, are just doing this because of some trend with the virus, and they can take credit. They don’t care about any of that. They are moving forward even if there were zero deaths or hospitalizations from Covid. It isn’t about Covid, so trends, medical literature, personal anecdotes, prior exposure/sickness, doctors…NONE of that matters.

    • Agree: Gordo
  16. Ken52 says:

    No. 4 may be incorrect. Contradictory evidence on whether Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid than Unvaccinated people. There was one study that suggested that vaccinated people make be able to have a heavier viral load and not feel sick than unvaccinated people. It would suggest that they were more likely to be able to spread their heavier viral load.

  17. Jack D says:

    Oh, no another covid vaccine thread. I can’t wait.

    “As many as” 100 million Americans sounds exaggerated. I’d bet that the so-called mandates don’t really affect more than half that number and out of the ones that are truly with the Federal government’s power to mandate (or you supposedly lose your job), they’ll be lucky if half actually comply.

    Libertarians and anti-vaxxers will make a big hoo-haw about their rights being taken away but the practical effect is not going to be as big as the noise.

    • Troll: 3g4me, Yancey Ward
  18. Anon[209] • Disclaimer says:

    I think the one thing keeping a lot of folks in line is the idea they have a good paying job and maybe even a day of retirement waiting for them.

    Kind of funny joe biden wants to kick down that safety fence.

    This is the same guy that got pwned not two weeks ago by the taliban, but big man stateside isn’t he.

  19. @Jack D

    My interpretation of this post is that Steve had an unexpected financial expense and wants donations from his antivaxxer readers. There’s no logic to it.

  20. @Rooster111

    One more time: Which is it:

    – So many people have gotten covid that we are really really close to herd immunity.

    – Or, due to countless fall positives, almost nobody has gotten covid yet.

    I’ve been hearing both arguments for 16 months now, so please discuss amongst yourselves and come to a consensus.

  21. @R.G. Camara

    Of course, they also could be so stupid as to think this won’t bring about violent resistance.

    It’ll happen any day now, I’m sure.

    • LOL: Thomas
    • Replies: @The Griffins
  22. @SimpleSong

    At least one Chicago radio commentator completely agrees with you, Shaun Thompson. You can hear his comments right after POTUS’s speech on his podcast today.

    https://560theanswer.com/radioshow/9349
    (Sept 9 @ 27:20)

  23. CTD says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I think extrapolating from deaths still pretty much works, although it lags a couple weeks.

  24. @Jack D

    Are males less at risk from Covid than females? Why an exemption for males?

    Ask Steve. He’s the one who said it, not me.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  25. anon[297] • Disclaimer says:

    Antibody Dependent Enhancement.

    If that happens, the common cold will become a serious illness. 3 shots a year. Pfizer also wants you to take 2 pills per day.

    Russia has 4 vaccines. None change your DNA or RNA. China has 2. One is mRNA, but it gets your body to make part of the viruses’ body, not the spike protien.

    Gibraltar is 99% vaccinated, and is experiencing a surge. Israel is over 70% vaccinated, and is seeing a surge.

    I think Americans would rather have Russian or Chinese vaccines. A vaccine is supposed to be a once-in-a-lifetime shot, not a 3 times a year. I dont see why we cant buy some from them instead of paying Fauci (shareholder), Gates (shareholder), J&J, and Moderna’s 9 new billionaires.

    • Agree: George, JR Ewing
    • Replies: @JR Ewing
  26. @SimpleSong

    What will you do when the next mandate is electric cars? Okay, but the grid can’t handle it. Too bad, so sad. Unaffordable cars that you can’t plug in for more than two hours a day. Let’s just subsidize some more solar panel companies and that should make everyone happy.

    How about when they limit your daily water usage to 55 gallons/day? A shower or clean clothes, you decide. A lawn? Forget it buddy.

    A/C? Okay, but you can’t turn the thermostat below 78 F. And in winter you get 68F max. And NO fireplaces. Do you realize how dirty and carbon-y those are?

    SimpleSong, I think you’ve outed yourself as an old fart. Surely by now you’ve seen that gov’t knows no limits and will mandate whatever they think they can get away with. At this point we need to say “NO” to everything they propose because it will always be used against us and our freedoms.

  27. @Jack D

    There’s a supertalmudic amount of quibbling and hand waving here but something like 75 million Americans are employed by companies with over 100 employees and the enforcement method is listed in the order. I know you are a let’s say non- comprehensive in your concerns for liberty but this is even for your typical VJ midwittery quite risible.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @J.Ross
  28. The problem here has nothing to do with the virus. It’s that every Western country has a dysfunctional polity. We can argue about who started it, and who the aggressor is now, but you have two sides that don’t trust the other’s good will. It may be the conservatives’ downfall that they didn’t trust the Left’s science. But one thing’s for sure: charitable concern for the health and safety of conservatives is the farthest thing from the mind of a Lefty.

    • Agree: JR Ewing
  29. El Dato says:

    a campaign encouraging people to Do More Stuff Outdoors and Keep a Window Open Indoors Until Winter Gets Frigid.

    FFS take your vitamin D.

  30. @Steve Sailer

    The novel “vaccines” do not reliably produce immunity; vaccinologists refer to them as “leaky” in that recipients regularly get Covid despite having been vaccinated. What the “vaccines” do achieve is an accelerated rate of mutation due to the high survival rate of the viruses. This is the same phenomenon we see with the overuse of antibiotics accelerating the mutation of bacteria into more virulent forms.

    The “vaccines” should have only been given to the elderly, obese and those with immunodeficiency problems. By dosing people who didn’t need it, all that was accomplished was to increase the rate of mutation and delay herd immunity.

    Another sterling achievement of the Biden Administration.

  31. He exempted the USPS which tells you this is all bullshit theater. No way he’d beat that hornets nest. Biden’s weak.

  32. There won’t be a Delta wave in Autumn/Winter. They need a new scare; it will be Mu. Or maybe the Lemuria wave.

    • Replies: @Spect3r
  33. @Steve Sailer

    Herd immunity is a unicorn statistic at this point; it’s meaningless to discuss. The only reason they still talk about “herd immunity” is to move the goal posts. It’s like discussing what the current herd immunity of the 2016 flu bug is… who cares! However, false positives matter quite a bit, especially when it’s a matter of propaganda. They were able to close the logical fallacy loop with the notion of “asymptotic spreaders”… they don’t exist, they’re just false positives!! You then throw in the never ending fear mongering of death count, where you have faulty PCR tests administered postmortem , and magically you have a pandemic!

    When you realize the severity of the disease is actually not that great, the relevance of herd immunity becomes irrelevant.

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    , @Dieter Kief
  34. Patient: I got the vaccine last week because I care about the people around me.
    Doctor: Well, you have a huge heart.
    Patient: I know, right?
    Doctor: No. You’re suffering from extreme heart inflammation. It’s a side effect of the vaccine.

    • Thanks: V. Hickel
    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Rob
  35. Dr. X says:

    Speaking at the White House, Biden sharply criticized the roughly 80 million Americans who are not yet vaccinated, despite months of availability and incentives.

    “We’ve been patient. But our patience is wearing thin, and your refusal has cost all of us,” he said, all but biting off his words. The unvaccinated minority “can cause a lot of damage, and they are.”

    Enemies of the People.

    He’s willing to literally starve the unvaxxed by denying them employment (and making them ineligible for unemployment when they get canned for refusing the vaxx, no doubt).

    I’ll take “Holodomor” for \$1 trillion, Alex.

    Next time I see some “conservative” moron waving his flag and talking about how he lives in the “freest country in the world,” I’m going to retch.

    • Agree: Mr. Anon
  36. @Steve Sailer

    I don’t need a conensus to comment. Most people not immunocompromised already had a high degree of immunity due to cross-immunities from exposure to previous coronaviruses. The false positives artificially increased the number of “Covid cases,” counting those that were asymptomatic or with mild symptoms, as well as artificially increased the number of “Covid deaths” by counting anyone who tested positive for Covid, or who even exhibited Covid-like symptoms, as such a death, although the real cause was probably a combination of various co-morbidities; even those deaths from respiratory failures were likely often due to influenza, bacterial pneumonia, respiratory syncytial virus, rhinoviruses, or other causes. The doctors4covidethics.org site has a number of papers discussing the lack of necessity for these “vaccines,” their ineffectiveness and how dangerous they are. I’m not taking this inoculation except at the point of a gun, but unfortunately, that looks to be the path on which we’re headed.

    Now I know how medieval heretics felt!

  37. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:

    My teen kids have massive multi-day reactions to the flu shot.

    Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, anaphylaxis one year too.

    What the hell am I supposed to do?

    Will Jimmy Kimmel give them a bed?

  38. Anonymous[236] • Disclaimer says:

    The government had a tiny window in the very beginning to try to keep it out of the U.S., in which they failed. Seeing as how the Alphabet agencies were part of a plot to release the virus deliberately, it is not surprising the government was unsuccessful containing the virus.

    Life goes back to normal the moment we decide it. People have lived through plagues and pandemics before, with a thousand times more dignity than we are now. Why is everyone so afraid to die? It is disgusting. Every pathetic clinger that got the clot shot or put on a mask handed the Evil Empire a blank check. Your fear is their power. And by empowering the NWO, you stab your fellow man in the back. To those who got the shot, fuck you all. It’s so fucking easy to see that anything the media, the leftist governments, the NGOs, and the giant corporations agree on is evil and not in humanity’s best interest! Fucks sake you are all so dumb. You’ll find out when it is far too late; while you are still desperately clinging to life on this hell planet from your fucking ventilators.

    You cucked, you gave up your dignity and humanity, just like They wanted you to. And now you let them persecute the only ones fighting back for *your* freedom. Eat bags and bags of dicks.

    • Agree: JR Ewing, Kratoklastes
    • Thanks: Stan d Mute, Gabe Ruth
  39. AceDeuce says:

    Pedo Joe better watch it–at this rate of mucking it all up, he’ll only get 80.5 million votes in 2024.

    • LOL: The Griffins
  40. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara

    Pivot away from Afghanistan debacle.

    Also, their sick strategy may be to purposely entrench Red State resistance to vaccination hoping it can cause more death in those States and a permanent removal of such people from the voter rolls for 2022 and 2024.

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
  41. I think we’re about to find out who boss man is.

  42. dr kill says:

    I observe that vaccines have not changed the seasonality of this respiratory virus, and I predict the normal seasonal increase in cases in cold weather indoor states.
    Happy Thanksgiving, New York. Merry Christmas, New Jersey.

  43. Thomas says:
    @SimpleSong

    Vaccine mandates have been upheld as Constitutional since 1905. The “personal autonomy,” “muh medical freedom” crowd are asserting an eccentric, minority, normative viewpoint that isn’t and hasn’t had support in the law in most of the country for a long time.

  44. Bill P says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I don’t think it’s either. A lot of people have been infected with its relatives, and they have some degree of natural resistance.

    Now, covid is infecting a lot of people who don’t have that resistance. When they recover they will be resistant. Some will die, but my grandpa, my great uncle Buddy, my uncle Terry and my father in law all died of pulmonary infections, and nobody locked us all down over it.

    Old people die of pulmonary infections all the time. This is a nasty one, but it’s well within historical norms. The lockdowns were purely political, and they have turned out to be a grave danger to our way of life.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  45. anonymous[158] • Disclaimer says:

    Completely OT – a golf story for Steve. Today in my group there was a guy who I thought was about 6’8″. Weighed 195 tops. Someone else asked how tall he was and he said 6’11.” So I asked if he’d ever played ball and he said he’d been a first round draft choice for the Cavs. A USC grad by the name of John Lambert. He said while in the NBA he weighed 270. Very pleasant guy. With a laugh he said that in high school, scouts considered it a toss-up between him and Walton. According to Wiki he grew up in Berkeley and was in a singing group with Glenn Burke. I had 14 pars.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  46. epebble says:
    @Rooster111

    Who cares about PCR thresholds, the only thing Biden understands is that there are 1,000+ deaths per day this week. When you buy a car, do you ask which microchip was used for engine controller? What compiler was used to build ABS?

    • Replies: @Rooster111
    , @Leo D
  47. roonaldo says:
    @Steve Sailer

    The two categories are not mutually exclusive. One can recover from or not be affected by exposure and have undetectable levels of whatever particles the test is designed to amplify, thus testing negative. This does not mean that the absurdly high magnification cycles applied to most PCR tests do not produce high percentages of false positives.

    The mRNA immunotherapies are not vaccines and do not confer immunity nor prevent one from infecting others. Mass inoculations of these woefully inadequately tested, experimental therapies under pandemic conditions is stupid beyond belief and are at the root of expanding illness and injury that Dementia Joe and those committed to “Herd Conformity” attribute to those refusing the jabs.

  48. @Steve Sailer

    I’ve been hearing both arguments for 16 months now, so please discuss amongst yourselves and come to a consensus.

    I’m starting to see why you were so unsuccessful in your career, despite your academic pedigree.

    • LOL: Spect3r
  49. anon[167] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    From the CDC data tracker site:

    Testing

    The percentage of COVID-19 NAATs (nucleic acid amplification tests)* that are positive (percent positivity) has decreased from the previous week. The 7-day average of percent positivity from NAATs is now 9.6%. The 7-day average number of tests reported for August 20 –August 26, 2021, was 1,391,645, up 4.1% from 1,336,203 for the prior 7 days.

    The “over amplification” argument is a ubiquitous floomer talking point. The people running these things should have always been looking at the cycle threshold distribution for positive tests.

    If only 10% or less are positive, the argument that high cycle thresholds are inevitably producing false positives doesn’t make sense.

    I haven’t kept up with the arguments, but its on the list of talking points and is endlessly repeated.

  50. @Bill P

    I think certain age groups (20-45 year olds) and occupational categories (restaurant workers, healthcare, education) are pretty close to herd immunity, from a combination of natural immunity after infection and/or vaccinations. However the people who have been isolating, especially in the states with fewer infections, are probably in for a ride.

    I also agree that some people are likely naturally resistant. A considerable minority of Europeans (and smaller percentages of other populations) have a partial or complete genetic mutation that greatly reduces susceptibility to norovirus and HIV. This genetic mutation supposedly evolved as protection against smallpox, so maybe it also has a protective effect against COVID.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  51. @Steve Sailer

    It’s here to stay, until we build immunity. Vaccines may help, and may not in that process. Ring around the rosie, pockets full of posies.

  52. @Thomas

    By “upheld” I presume you mean SCOTUS.

    When the politically appointed, lifetime tenured, lawyer-justices get bored of acting like lawmakers, they act like physicians.

    • Replies: @Thomas
  53. Elsewhere says:

    Let’s do this super-unpopular mandate on his watch so he can take the crushing blow and then Kamala can lift it.”

    Of course, they also could be so stupid as to think this won’t bring about violent resistance.

    I think they’re counting on violent resistance. Rather than lifting the vaccine mandate, Kamala will have a mandate to crush all resisters. Their best case for this would be if Biden was [email protected]\$\$inated.

    • Replies: @aNewBanner
  54. These vaccines do not prevent infection , thus getting vaccinated does not have the social benefit of protecting the vulnerable. Pfizer intentionally failed to test participants in their study to determine if the vaccine prevented infections. These vaccines never fully prevented infections and we see this in the data, most of the people getting COVID today are vaccinated. It is foolish to mandate a non-sterilizing vaccine. Most of those getting COVID today contracted it from a fully vaccinated person.

    Fauci told us the pandemic would end when 50% were vaccinated. Today 75% of Americans over the age of 13 are vaccinated and half the unvaxxed have acquired immunity. Unfortunately they still blame the unvaccinated for the failure of the vaccines to prevent CV. Will the feds soon mandate a booster ? A fourth shot ?

    Israel, with 85% of adults vaccinated , yet 84% of the reported cases last month were among the fully vaccinated. The vaccines have zero efficacy in preventing infection, although they do appear to reduce deaths somewhat.
    https://voxday.net/2021/09/08/a-pandemic-of-the-vaccinated/

  55. @Rooster111

    There have been mandatory vaccinations for children to be allowed to go to public schools in the United States for many years, and I don’t ever remember any major politician running against it.

    Likewise immigrants to the United States have to be vaccinated in their own country before they travel to the United States, and I don’t ever remember any major politician running against it because it was unconstitutional.

    I have heard candidates for president expressing their views on abortion, but never on infectious diseases or public health measures. Why is that?

    Is it a legitimate function of government to eliminate contagious diseases at all? Why shouldn’t we not be free to die of tuberculosis or syphilis or polio, or smallpox, or bubonic plague?

    Isn’t that a form of first amendment protected speech? Isn’t this exactly what the second amendment was intended for? And what about the third amendment? Isn’t forcing people to have vaccines a bit like forcing them to have soldiers staying in their homes? I can hardly see any difference.

    And surely the founding fathers would not have wanted people to be vaccinated, even though Thomas Jefferson actually obtained and provided smallpox vaccinations for everybody on his estate including the slaves, and even invented a method of transporting the vaccine and keeping it cool so that it would not lose its effectiveness.

    This matter needs to be put before the psychics on the Supreme Court so that they can look into their crystal balls and communicate with the founding fathers in a seance.

    Just because every other country in the world is vaccinating people against Covid-19 without too much fuss, it doesn’t mean that is right for the Upside-down States.

  56. SafeNow says:

    “Keep a Window Open Indoors Until Winter Gets Frigid. Sure, the latter would waste energy on A/C and heat which would exacerbate climate change and all that, but still …”

    You would think. But modern air exchangers have a way of grabbing most of the heat or cold from the air being expelled before they expel that air. The two airstreams never mix. The nasty Covid-filled air never mixes with the incoming air.

    https://www.explainthatstuff.com/heat-recovery-ventilation.html

  57. Don’t know what Steve’s bitching about, the dumb boomer fuck got exactly what he’s been shilling for this whole time.

    • Agree: Thoughts, Yancey Ward
  58. Thomas says:
    @Abolish_public_education

    By “upheld” I presume you mean SCOTUS.

    Yeah. That’s the way it works. “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.”

    As far as I’m concerned, if the government can draft you into the army and send you to die halfway across the world, it can make you get a shot whether you want to or not.

  59. Mr. Anon says:
    @Bragadocious

    He exempted the USPS which tells you this is all bullshit theater. No way he’d beat that hornets nest.

    Yes, the government employees that the average American citizen is most likely to interact with.

    Of course, they are a vital part of stealing the next election, so he wants to keep him on his good side.

    • Agree: The Griffins
  60. @Reg Cæsar

    Males are more at risk from covid and from vaccine side effect myocarditis.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  61. @onetwothree

    Steve doesn’t do all this hectoring to promote White identity or any kind of pro-White agenda.

    It’s just “pro-social”. We are to sacrifice our lives to help randos. Welcome to Citizenism.

    Do HBD pundits feel like they “know us like that” to be telling us what to do.

  62. Anon[209] • Disclaimer says:

    Keep a Window Open Indoors

    I don’t think this does anything.

    Two windows on opposite sides of the room, with a box fan in one, and a fan or two in the corners to mix up stationary air pockets. would probably help a lot.

    I cook a lot. The range hood is worthless without a window open somewhere to supply incoming air. Otherwise the grease just ends up on your walls and curtains.

    Buy some incense and put move it around the room. Can you smell it in other places of the room? That incense is the Coronavirus moving around the room. I live in Japan and my wife burns incense on the family altar downstairs from time to time. I can smell it upstairs in the morning when I wake up.

    I think if you are in a house, apartment, or office with someone with Delta, you are screwed, in the Russian roulette sense of the word. But careful ventilation, with an eye to the physics of fluids, will put infection off, if you are lucky.

    http://www.healthyhouseinstitute.com/a-930-The-Physics-of-Good-Ventilation

    OT

    When I saw that one of the “horse pill” studies was contaminated because it combined Invermectin with a nasal spray (Mickey Kaus also mentioned sprays) I went looking and found this:

    https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/analysis/covid-19-nasal-sprays-virus/

    There are a bunch of these sprays undergoing testing by pharmaceutical companies. I think these could be a game changer if effective. Even manly men who don’t wear masks could use these on the sly and their buddies wouldn’t need to know.

    They seem to combine antiviral properties with physical barrier properties. You still have the throat (mouthwash?) and the lungs to worry about, but apparently nasal passages are a big entry point for viruses.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  63. @R.G. Camara

    At least Joe’s handlers were smart enough to write in a vax exemption for the 600,000 postal workers at USPS. Gotta keep those mail-in ballots moving along smoothly, with those from known red-leaning districts disappeared into a dumpster. And how would Gavin Newsom fare next week if Joe had pissed off the post office folks just a few days out?

  64. @Bill P

    Yes, the Delta Wave appears to be fading, although it will get bad in West Virginia.

    But it will probably have fizzled out before the mandates go into effect, making Biden’s claims of victory a little hard to rationalize.

  65. @Steve Sailer

    Remember, if you write a well thought-out thought-provoking response to his question he asks every thread, he’ll totally ignore it and be oblivious to anything you said, but if you write that ancient aliens made Covid or something retarded he’s virtually guaranteed to respond to your comment with a “see? Vaccine skeptics are all like this!”.

    • Agree: Catdog
  66. @Anonymous

    Nope, they are desperate to get everyone in the USA all vaxed up before flu season
    kicks in.*

    They need to eliminate the control group before people start dying from
    Antibody Dependent Enhancement in numbers too large to be hidden from view.

    If everyone is vaxed, then they can blame the deaths on whatever variant they just invented the day before.

    *Excluding illegal aliens, it goes without saying.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
  67. Mr. Anon says:

    If the government can mandate this vaccine, they can mandate boosters every year or every six months. They can mandate any vaccine and will do so forever. Perhaps they will make you wear a dog-tag as evidence that you’ve had your shots. After all, they’re treating you like a dog.

    And make no mistake, they WILL institute vaccine passports if people let this pass.

    And who knows what they’ll put in future vaccines. You will be empowering people like this guy:

    Think that’s crazy? Think again. This isn’t some rambling streeet-person saying this. It’s this guy:

    https://publichealth.nyu.edu/faculty/s-matthew-liao

    It’s necessary to deal with the “climate crisis” (the next manufactured “crisis” to follow in the slip-stream of the COVID “crisis”). What’s wrong with you? Aren’t you concerned about the climate? We’ve lost our patience with you anti-climaters. It’s time you do the right thing, and take the shot that makes you throw up if you eat a hamburger.

    This isn’t the end of intrusive state coercion and control of your life (all in the service of globalist oligarchs, by the way). It is the beginning. You are nothing but property to them. They want to own you, body and soul. And they’re winning.

  68. Mr. Anon says:
    @Thomas

    As far as I’m concerned, if the government can draft you into the army and send you to die halfway across the world, it can make you get a shot whether you want to or not.

    Are they entitled to sodomize you too?

    • Replies: @Thomas
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  69. @Jonathan Mason

    Sorry, laddio, but Dean Swift you definitely ain’t. This is flatter than Elliot Page’s new chest.

    Stick to your regular banalities.

  70. Anon[209] • Disclaimer says:

    These vaccines do not prevent infection

    Vaccines do not prevent infection. The flu vaccine doesn’t and never did. The polio vaccine didn’t.

    They reduce the possibility of infection. They make it harder for viruses to infect you. They are like air bags or seat belts. They are not a Get out of Death card.

    Why is they important? To reduce the possibility of you getting sick by direct infection, but more importantly, for you and for society, they help lower the R-naught, which if low enough would effectively locally eradicate the virus, for a while. And countermeasures are commutatively cumulative:

    Reduction in infection = vaccination x mask x ventilation x distance-from-people x number-of-outings x etc. etc.

    No one factor works 100 percent, but seven 10 percent effective measures cut the transmission in half, five 30 percent effective measures cut it to 1/6, and so on.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @JR Ewing
  71. Anonymous[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @Matt Buckalew

    EAnyone have a good source on how Biden (through OSHA rules) can get away with this? I’ve been thinking about this today, that a lot of people on his team must be aware this won’t work. It has nothing to do with the merits, more like judge/bureaucrat professional jealousy. Truman’s relatively more tailored exec orders were easily swatted down, and the recent Nevada judge re-interpretation of citizenship wasn’t even prompted by any political calculation, it was just a flex.

    I’m persuaded by the analysis that Biden went through with this so he can have a reference video cued up explaining why everyone not having voted for him is awkshually the correct scapegoat for what happens next. Like De Blasio and Cuomo examples it’s more important to police your frantic blue base than to craft or attempt at crafting some nerdy policy stratagem out of a rejected “The West Wing” script. It’s symbolic and not meant to pass muster legally. Also it’s useful to draw out one’s opponents this way as Barack “Stray Voltage” Obama so loved to do. In conclusion this brainstorm from Biden is certainly as bad on paper as firing the General Motors CEO but the latter was a successful “honeymoon” bluff more instrumental for burnishing Barry’s neo-New Deal PR campaign than addressing a perceived public problem. “Reward our enemies and punish our friends,” as Joey B would probably phrase it.

    • Agree: Jack D
    • Replies: @Charlotte
    , @Ed Case
  72. Anonymous[141] • Disclaimer says:

    I think the major benefit from the vaccine is to yourself (being able to handle the subsequent exposure better). Not the whole herd immunity thing, given we know Delta spreads amongst the vaccinated. I get the sense that a lot of this is social, with the people who just like Mommy state wanting to make others comply. Not really about stopping disease. So, I think it should be up to the individual.

    I question the ability of the President to mandate something like this. But IANAL.

    FWIW, I got the vaccine, not out of any disease fear, but to enable client projects (in case a client wanted me to have it, on travel projects). I look at it like wearing a hard hat. You pay my day rate, you get my compliance. (Drill, baby, drill.)

    Some of the right wing mindlessness is silly though. Like they conflate ivermectin, vaccines, and lab leak, mask use. When they are separate physical topics. But I guess there are just a lot of shit for brains everywhere.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Catdog
  73. @anonymous

    Keep these States in mind as ones you may want to live in. It’s not so much because of these specific Governors*, but because the people of those States agree.

    .

    * McMaster, for instance, is one who is inviting in Afghans.

  74. @Bragadocious

    The Dems need the USPS workers alive so they can deliver the mail in ballots during the next lockdown.

    • Agree: TTSSYF
    • LOL: Voltarde
  75. “We’ve been patient. But our patience is wearing thin,”

    In the words of Ron DeSantis “you can go fuck yourself!”

    Do those words from Joe Biden sound like those of anyone but a tyrant?

    • Agree: Mr. Anon, Adam Smith
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Anonymous
  76. Rob says:
    @Rooster111

    What detection method were they using with the qRT-PCR? SYBR Green will detect any dsDNA, so primer-dimer or just non-target amplified DNA will be detected. Primer-dimer products are very low molecular weight, and non-target amplified DNA is unlikely to be the same mw as the desired amplicon, so running the products on a gel (w a ladder) will tell you if you have (in this case coronavirus) target in the sample.

    Taqman probes bind a specific sequence within the target, so other DNA won’t bind, and late cycles thresholds are fine. Here’s what a thermo-fisher qPCR Handbook has to say (pg 11)

    PCR may also amplify nonspecific products produced by primers binding to seemingly random locations in the sample DNA or sometimes to themselves in so-called “primer-dimers”. Since nonspecific products are unrelated to the target, they do not have TaqMan® probe binding sites, and thus are not seen in the real-time PCR data.

    I don’t know, because I never did anything clinical, but I would be very surprised if clinical qRT-PCR did not use Taqman or a newer, more specific probe with higher Δ Fluorescence between unreacted/unbound and target detection states. Most likely, it is a multiplex reaction and detects an internal control sequence, possibly one in the primer/polymerase/reporter mix and one sequence from the clinical sample. They may use more than one probe for the target coronavirus sequence. Number of probes is limited only by wavelength separation of reporter/quencher pairs.

    [MORE]

    A little primer (lol) and then a link. If you already know PCR basics, I do not mean to offend. Just skip this. So, qPCR is quantitative PCR, it is a synonym for real-time PCR. RT-PCR is reverse transcriptase PCR. RT-PCR detects template RNA, like coronavirus genome.

    Products in qPCR are detected through fluorescence changes in a probe when it binds or interacts the product. SYBR Green is a dye that becomes fluorescent when it is held rigid by the (minor?) groove in dsDNA.

    More sophisticated probes use a light at one frequency to stimulate a donor (also called reporter) fluorescent molecule.

    When the donor is very close to another molecule, called a quencher, energy that the donor absorbs is transferred without any emitted fluorescence by a phenomenon known as FRET.

    FRET is extremely sensitive to distance, it is maybe a 1/d^6 relationship.

    When the probe interacts with the target DNA, distance between reporter and quencher increases, FRET stops, and the energy the donor absorbs is released as fluorescence, which the PCR machine reads.

    Different types of probes depend on different interactions to separate reporter and quencher.

    Bio-Rad will tell you about more recent qPCR probes, and had helpful pictures to boot.

    • Replies: @Rooster111
  77. Whiskey says: • Website

    This is a stupid move by the Biden Administration that is going to trigger a hot civil war. Period.

    First, the vaccines no longer work. Its why people have not gotten them. They don’t work: vaccinated people are catching (predictably) mutated variants like crazy. Biden telling people they have to get two shots, plus a booster ever month, is going to create as much resistance as Prohibition, easily. If the vaccines worked it would be one thing but they don’t — the mutated variants are predictably able to infect the vaccinated.

    Second, the next “mandate” will be lockdowns. That is also coming, signaled by Fauci. People are sick of it and will rebel, violently. At least part of that is driven by the “F— Joe Biden” chants at pretty much every college football game. The Regency does not like Dirt People knowing others think the same thing.

    Third, most of the enlisted, non coms, and junior grade officers are livid and near revolt. They get punished for the tiniest screw up (or things that are not screw ups just PC snowflakes getting offended by people doing their job). Meanwhile the top brass screws up mightily and loses catastrophically and in humiliating fashion to a bunch of illiterate goat herders and they get awards. For being PC suckups to Biden’s Regency. Biden checking his watch, bored, had a huge emotional impact on various non coms and junior officers. They hate that he didn’t even care.

    Fourth, the Regency’s popularity is plummeting as cost of living skyrockets, and savings diminish, and wages stagnate, and crime / violence are spreading like wildfire with no enforcement in sight or even possible any more. More lockdowns getting rid of more jobs makes the big Globohomo companies happy, but makes those who lost their jobs angry and out for revenge. Its not like they can get another one.

    Fifth, companies are going to use this mandate to just fire lots of people including those with vaccine records and claim “error” but uh oh that job has been eliminated so sorry to hire illegals and H1-Bs and everyone knows it. Meaning tens of millions of formerly employed who got the vaccine and got fired anyway. And they will blame the Biden Regency.

    Sixth, they will set up (and have set up) a conflict where they will have to send in Federal Troops to “arrest” Governors and Legislatures over vaccine mandates, masks, and lockdowns. What happens when/if those troops mutiny and side with the Governors? [Most of the actual war fighters are White and Austin/Milley have said they have no future, no future at all in the military — only blacks and trannies need apply. They know they won’t get their pension.]

    Seventh, they are not untouchable. The failed color revolution against Trump last Summer with the mob trying to storm the White House was noticed and could be repeated. Other big shots are likely to be targets. As former Mexican Narcotics cop Ed Morales noted, if someone wants to get you they can, all the security in the world can’t protect you (see Reagan).

    Eighth, the mass firing one way or another of those not vaccinated or those that were but “oh sorry too bad” will leave critical people absent and system after system will collapse. First, the power grid. Key people leave there and the lights go out for months or even years. Second, water and sewage systems. Third or who knows maybe first, delivery. Enough train engineers, controllers, truckers, and the like are gone, nothing moves.

    Ninth, illegals and H1-Bs are exempt from this order. That is going to be making people very angry as they have more rights than American citizens, and more protection from the government too.

    Tenth, the economy is barely functioning now. Making this mass firing of likely all told 50 million Americans to replace them with H1-Bs and Illegals is going to crater it for decades.

    If the power is out, and has been out for a month all over the nation, all those surveillance cameras are useless. No one has a working cell phone any more. News is only by radio. Scores will be settled, big time.
    —————-
    Now the Why is easy.

    The Regency is run by mostly stupid, mostly White women and President Ron Klain, all of whom are again, stupid but BELIEVE. Believe that if they clap really hard, Tinkerbell will live. That if they perform the Ghost Dance then Covid will go away and sunshine and roses. And “never let a crisis go to waste” and all that. To build back more anti-White during the Great Reset. But like Kenny Rogers advised, you need to know when to hold em, and when to fold em, and when to walk away. Female panic does not invite respect, admiration or much obedience. It pretty much invites male rebellion.

    People want to be done with the Covid stuff. Dragging it on and on and on forever only invites rebellion where there was none and the Regency, with Senile Bane and Heels Up Ho have no legitimacy, having lost it in the shambles of the Afghanistan retreat, leaving people behind, and general humiliation. The Magic Negro President at least had that going for him — he had legitimacy and was the fulfillment of all those movies and TV shows with black Presidents. His retreat from Iraq we were not fleeing in panic.

    • Replies: @pepperinmono
  78. Thomas says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Given a sufficient “govermental interest.”

  79. Rahan says:
    @SimpleSong

    Once the “you will not infect others” is off the table–and it is off the table–the only thing left is a lifestyle choice, like smoking or drinking or being fat or doing drugs or intense BDSM sex. Sure maybe it’s bad for your health, but that’s no excuse to try to crush you or to destroy democracy.

    There are likely at least 2 billion mini-cameras in the world, not only on smartphones but also on older cellphones. Not one place in the world has bodies on the streets. Not one. Not in Africa, not in Asia, nowhere. Therefore, this is not the type of “plague” that can be an excuse for WWIII levels overreach.

    After the current debacle is analyzed, it’s best if iron clad rules are accepted across the planet. In case of plague A what happens, in case of plague B what happens, and so on.

    For example, if there is suspicion that something like COVID is loose, then a town or a state or a country have a mandate for a strict lockdown for two weeks, and during that time the situation is analyzed. No built in automatic prolongation. Rather built in automatic termination. After the two weeks of lockdown, results are presented, the population makes a choice. Unless there are literal bodies on the streets. In which case plan B is enacted but also with strict durational limits, say 4 weeks, and so on. With plans in place of how to feed everyone etc.

    What Fauci is and the rest are doing, is constantly providing a temporary social contract “pls do A so that we achieve B” and then keep constantly changing it, but after every bait and switch there’s more pressure to keep going in deeper.

    De facto showing that to them this is not a social contract between free citizens and their representatives, but mandates from masters to plebs, with bad faith tricks to gradually submit to things you originally would not submit to.

    That’s predatory behavior. This type of behavior needs to be strongly discouraged.

  80. The Craw says:
    @Bragadocious

    I note that Joe hasn’t sealed the southern border against waves of third world migrants as a precaution against the spread of covid.

    I also note that the Afghan evacuees haven’t been isolated and quarantined either. As I understand it Afghanistan is one of the least vaxed countries in the world. And yet Joe is busily re-settling the afghans throughout the u.s. right now and passing thousands of them through our busiest national airports (Dallas, Chicago, Houston) to do it.

    Instead of taking those simple precautions against the spread of covid Joe is using the power of the executive branch to force the experimental vax on his own citizens, and is sneering at them while doing it.

    At the same time Joe is using the power of the state against the unvaxed, he won’t lift his hand against the BLM and Antifa rioters of last year.

    This won’t end well.

    • Replies: @Seneca44
  81. J.Ross says:

    600,000 postal service workers exempt. Not like they move around or interact with the public or anything.

  82. J.Ross says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Well I don’t know the part where he says he would push aside any state governor who gets in his way sounds like uh well yeah he’s definitely a tyrant in his own words now.

  83. MB says: • Website

    A totalitarian tell: All Things Legal Are Now Mandatory.
    Brought to you by the same people that thought Ronald Grump was a fascist dictator.
    ‘But if he can do it, so can we’ is the only lame excuse I can think of for the latest.
    Other than being just flat out despicable liars.

  84. @Buck Ransom

    They’re no longer either “illegal aliens” or “undocumented immigrants.” Now they’re “herd immunizers.”

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
  85. @Thomas

    Vaccine mandates have been upheld as Constitutional since 1905.

    About time it gets either overturned or becomes a dead letter due to civil disobedience. The Supreme Court can declare a planet to be a star if it wants, but it does not make it so. The people have a moral right to resist unjust laws.

    Plus that ruling assumed a 90+% efficacy of a tried-and-tested vaccine, not a new one with far less efficacy and one without a long term tried-and-tested track record.

    Kindly go to the back of the class, son.

    The “personal autonomy,” “muh medical freedom” crowd are asserting an eccentric, minority, normative viewpoint that isn’t and hasn’t had support in the law in most of the country for a long time.

    Cool story, bro.

    • Replies: @Thomas
  86. Anon[311] • Disclaimer says:

    Once the “you will not infect others” is off the table–and it is off the table–the only thing left is a lifestyle choice, like smoking or drinking or being fat or doing drugs or intense BDSM sex. Sure maybe it’s bad for your health, but that’s no excuse to try to crush you or to destroy democracy.

    The analogy fails because a pandemic is a clear tragedy of the commons situation. Assuming that vaccine-eschewing citizens claim the right to go to markets, restaurants, movies, city hall, and sporting events, they effect the other tribe because they are instrumental in keeping a universal disease at a dangerous level. The world is not set up to accommodate two different populations based on pandemic etiquette and practice.

    This is different than smoking: smokers can smoke as long as they stay in smoking areas. They can be accommodated, and they grumble, but it’s not such a big deal.

    This is different from obesity. Yes, elites say “Fatties are spending my tax money by getting fat related diseases,” but the connection is a little more tenuous. In general, the skinny are left alone by the existences of the obese, other than to have their delicate, pearl-clutching retinas seared by their sight.

    P.S.

    You are a nice person. I like you just fine. You have the right to exist.

    Feel free to respond to this, but a polite explanation of your reasoning is fine. No, I am not Hitler or Mao. I give money to buskers.

    Have a nice day.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Gabe Ruth
  87. JimDandy says:

    I see only religious and medical exemptions listed. What about exemptions for having already having had a documented case of covid and still having natural antibodies against it? What about an exemption for being, say, male, under 30, and with a BMI under 25? What about a medical exemption for the second dose people who have a bad adverse event reaction following the first dose?

    Thanks, Steve.

  88. Dumbo says:
    @Anon

    So far I have seen little evidence that masks and “social distancing” reduce transmission in any meaningful way. These are mostly psychological measures that, as has been observed by several doctors, do little against the transmission of a respiratory disease, and in fact, cases fluctuated with little regard for such rules and mandates (they respected more the changes of seasons).

    If the vaccine reduces symptoms but not transmission, it’s also not clear how they “reduce R.” They are being pushed for other reasons. Perhaps the NWO creeps see this as a sort of “baptism” or “initiation ritual”, or perhaps they just want to “show who’s the boss”. But this forceful approach does not work in their favour, and is deeply suspicious.

  89. Charlotte says:
    @Anonymous

    This is only slightly related to your question, but the federal agency where I work recently came out with a policy requiring vaccination or frequent COVID testing. How would they know whether you were vaccinated? Well, each employee must “attest” to his or her status by clicking yes or no on an online form, no proof requested or required. Pure theater masquerading as a hard-nosed policy.

    • Thanks: George
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  90. I don’t know precisely what this mad-man and his followers are pursuing with this mRNA obsession. But I don’t believe it has anything to do with your well being.

    • Agree: Sick 'n Tired
    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  91. J.Ross says:
    @Matt Buckalew

    There’s a youtuber who talks about New York commercial real estate, and he has nearly a dozen videos about how it’s dead and nobody wants it. We have companies shut down for lack of parts and others overworking skeleton crews because even with the benefits cut off nobody wants to work. California has lost more companies so far this year than in all of last year. Now our corrupt and idiotic gerontocracy has made an economic collapse much more likely. I don’t know the resolution to this but making it inpossible to work probably doesn’t help.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  92. @SimpleSong

    …if you want to oppose these sorts of things I would encourage people to pick their battles wisely… Think hard about which battle your enemy wants you to fight.

    Nonsense. Yours is the cuck’s refrain, and we’ve seen where that leads. Acquiescence breeds acquiescence. Conceding battles to your enemy just means he rolls over you without a fight. “First they came for…”

    • Agree: The Griffins
  93. roonaldo says:
    @anon

    10% positive from about 1.3 million tests is a high rate–imagine if this were a test for ebola. It is not logical to say the 10% figure cannot be way off. At high amplification levels the tests could pick up, say, nucleic acid sequences from a number of other sources and thus be quite unreliable.

    A positive test result may cause a person to be quarantined, denied a job, or subjected to medical scrutiny. It is called a “case” and compiled into a large total used to frighten the public to accept restricted freedoms and coerced injections of experimental mRNA therapeutics.

    Now a new scourge, the Bidenovirus, has been unleashed, causing extreme delusions, mental dysfunction, and paranoid ravings, as the index case showed today in his address to the nation. There’s a simple, reliable test for the Bidenovirus–if one mostly agrees with his pronouncements then one is infected, and, short of prefrontal lobotomy, there’s no known effective treatment.

  94. Thoughts says:

    There is 0 reason to be vaccinated if you have a healthy BMI and no comorbidities

    0.

    0.

    Based upon how many LIBERAL friends are getting ill for days after the vaccine (thus calling their doctor and visiting the ER) and how many LIBERAL friends have gotten that weird ‘I swear it’s not Covid!’ respiratory illness a few months after vaccination…thus Calling Their Doctors

    I have a very small circle of acquaintances and the vaccines are responsible for 3 illnesses that required medical intervention—one severe medical intervention and surgeries.

    How is that stopping overload of the Hospitals?

    Vaccination should be voluntary. It doesn’t make you a good person to get vaccinated.

    You know why Vaccination is bad Steve? It’s a band-aid on the real problem of this society.

    It’s the age old adage of…Mow your own f–ing lawn.

    If you take care of your health in the FIRST PLACE…No alcohol, no birth control, keeping processed food to a minimum, exercise and No Clot Shots ….Then guess what….By doing right by YOUR body you are actually doing right by…

    Everyone Else. Taking the clot shot is harming your body, and by harming your own body in the name of being a ‘Nice Person’ will do harm to everyone else over time.

    Whatever. It’s over. F— You All.

  95. Anonymous[232] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Do those words from Joe Biden sound like those of anyone but a tyrant?

    Indeed. Since when did a free people have to worry about the government losing patience in them?

    • Agree: Mr. Anon
  96. Thoughts says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Covid is a big fat Hoax

    That’s why there is no consensus and no logic

    You got a few libs and a few celebrities to have breakdowns over the flu, and then you murdered a few elderly with the flu and some young folk on ventilators…add in the obese being obese and you got yourself a death count

    You let Kate Garraway make a documentary and wear dresses on the red carpet, same with Amanda Kloots…those two blondes are your Covid Poster girls and rewarded handsomely they have been

    Big. Fat. Hoax.

  97. Mass vaccination during an epidemic will drive viral mutation, and the development of new ‘variants’. Various vaccine experts have said so for months, but been censored in the now familiar totalitarian fashion. At the same time cheap, highly effective and very, very safe meds like ivermectin are repressed amidst a MSM sewer frenzy of lying and sub-moronic abuse. Something very sinister is afoot. Meanwhile Nipah, a real ‘useless class’ remover if ever there was one (after a little tinkering in Fort Detrick or some other US bio-warfare lab)has re-appeared in Kerala.

  98. @Just another serf

    One of the local vaccine spruikers, an hysterical farrago of collective human detritus, who affects some qualification or other, has the gall when speaking of these experimental gene therapy injections, to lie through his teeth, declaring, ‘Vaccines are safe-we’ve used them for centuries!”. When a lie is that Big, that contemptuous of the intelligence of the proles, you know that Jung’s ‘psychic epidemic’ has reared its head again.

  99. @Mr. Anon

    That the global monster class will exploit the climate destabilisation crisis to their benefit (mostly to sacrifice billions of ‘useless eaters’ to save their own hides, I suspect) does NOT render the science and the facts null and void. Why do denialists have such difficulty grasping that simple fact? Can they really be that stupid?

  100. Ed Case says:
    @Anonymous

    EAnyone have a good source on how Biden (through OSHA rules) can get away with this? I’ve been thinking about this today, that a lot of people on his team must be aware this won’t work.

    All the focus has been on the Safety rather than the Health since these Trojan Horse laws were introduced in the West.

    [MORE]

    In Australia there is a person known as the PCBU [Person in Charge 0f a Business or Undertaking]
    at every workplace.
    Any accident happens, his arse is on the line.
    Since OHSA is administered by Regulation in Australia, all the States have to do is advertise in their Government Gazette, giving 90 days notice that anyone entering a Workplace will require digital proof of vaccination.
    The PCBU will be responsible for enforcing this, if he chooses not to, he’s going to jail.

    Courthouses are workplaces too, as defined under the Act.
    Summonsed to Court but haven’t been Vaxxed?
    You can either get vaxxed in a hurry, or the Magistrate may issue a Warrant for your Arrest, since as far as he knows, you didn’t turn up to Court.

  101. @Thomas

    “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.”

    Bullshit. It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say CORRECTLY what the law is. SCOTUS has the power to declare all sorts of nonsense, and does so with great regularity, but that not make that nonsense into actual law.

  102. Mike Tre says:

    All your words and reasons don’t mean anything. The only thing that matters is the right to make a personal medical choice. The rest is your OCD.

    No vaccine, because I don’t want or need it. Period.

    • Agree: RestiveUs
  103. At this point, it’s almost as if the people handling Biden simply don’t care anymore.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  104. Special Thanks to the gutless, spineless GOP, who have remained silent as king biden runs amok.

    • Agree: By-tor
  105. Vaccines don’t stop the spread of the virus. They do diminish it, but it is going to spread regardless.

    It is, therefore, a very weak argument that people need to be force vaccinated to slow Covid’s spread so that people who are vaccinated get it after more time has passed.

    I suspect this won’t be seriously enforced/it will be very easy to fake your way around. It’ll just keep Doris in the DMV quiet.

    I still reccomend getting vaccinated though. It means you’ll likely get a lot less sick or not sick at all.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  106. El Dato says:
    @Anon

    Assuming that vaccine-eschewing citizens claim the right to go to markets, restaurants, movies, city hall, and sporting events, they effect the other tribe because they are instrumental in keeping a universal disease at a dangerous level.

    But this is also the case for the common cold, hepatitis, HPV, influenza, AIDS etc.

    So what changes? The transmission rate? The death/infection ratio?

    This is not smallpox.

  107. El Dato says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    The approach might well be:

    1) Get the two vaccine doses to be somewhat protected about full system infection.
    2) Get the virus to get up-armored. The probability that it will be “just a cold” experience is high.
    3) Profit by reducing the probability of long COVID, diabetes breakout etc.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
  108. @Bill P

    Notice that American workers would be required to get vaccinated according to the Plugs mandate, but not illegal aliens. Fully 30% of those in custody refuse to receive the vaccine. What a putz…

  109. @Thomas

    Vaccine mandates have been upheld as Constitutional since 1905.

    State vaccine mandates were upheld as Constitutional in 1905. FIFY.

    This is Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), which everyone seems to refer to nowadays but no one seems to have read.

    What Jacobson says:

    • The State (not the Federal government) had the “police power” to mandate a vaccination.

    • The State’s mandate in question was merely to penalize (fine, jail) citizens who refused vaccination, or to prohibit them from entering the State. The mandate was not for forcible injection (contrary to what Dershowitz has been running around telling everyone).

    • The State mandate included many exceptions, e.g., children were not to be vaccinated, physicians could exempt their patients on medical grounds, etc. The Court specifically mentioned these exceptions as part of why they considered the mandate “reasonable”.

    Finally, most of this vaccination/quarantine jurisprudence predates De Jonge v. Oregon, 299 U.S. 353 (1937), which used the “incorporation doctrine” to apply the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s power to inhibit freedom of assembly. So how will new vaccine mandates hold up against the Fourteenth’s more recently turbocharged guarantee of freedom of assembly?

    There was a definite trend over the last two thirds of the 20th century for courts to decide in favor of individual liberty and against state interest. But nowadays there is an even more recent trend for courts to decide in favor of amorphous good-isms (e.g., diversity) and against everything else.

    Since 1973, one might expect that “My body, my choice” would be the animating legal principle of our age, but since it turns out that “My bakery, my choice” is anathema, one suspects that when the “my” is a Dem constituency, all rights are hallowed, while when the “my” is a Repub constituency, no rights exist.

    So, like so many court decisions nowadays, it is likely to come down to the personal prejudices of the human beings who happen to wear the black robes while they sit on a high bench.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Thomas
  110. Spect3r says:
    @Nahda Rielnaim

    Come one now, we all know is going to be Atlantis 😀

  111. Spud Boy says:

    While I’m in camp that agrees this is government over-reach, it seems everyone is ignoring this line:

    “…or test for the virus weekly,”

    so, you really don’t have to get vaccinated.

  112. TTSSYF says:
    @anonymous

    I don’t see one from Florida Governor DeSantis. I think he and Florida can be counted on to defy it as well.

  113. @epebble

    That’s my whole point! They’re mis-categorizing deaths of other account to covid! Dial up the cycle threshold… 1,000 deaths a day, dial down the cycle threshold…. 100 deaths a day. The death count is bogus.

  114. @Rob

    The flaw in the PCR Test isn’t a bug, it’s a feature! How can they template a covid genome when they haven’t even isolated the strain?

    • Replies: @Rob
  115. This seems entirely political to me. USPS is exempted. Why? I suspect they’re needed to carry all the fraudulent mail-in ballots when in-person voting is deemed unsafe and forbidden. Dems have nothing to run on for midterms. They need to manufacture a crisis so they can mandate mail-in ballots. Its the only way they have a chance. Watch for shutdown talk.

    A few random notes:

    – Biden Admin just messed with the commercial real estate sector again. This is why Microsoft cancelled their back to office plans. Expect defaults.

    – Nurses and their unions really need to demand raises here. This mandate will adversely effect them.

  116. No one is impressed by the under-regulated emotions of a senile old man. Diaper Joe’s impatience with other people is a personal problem and not a basis for policy.

    My body my choice.

    No means no.

    And no amount of public menstruating and tantruming by a senile old deviant will get poison injected into my body every three months. I will outlive the CoronaHoax because I am stubborn.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  117. TTSSYF says:
    @Jack D

    Like “two weeks to flatten the curve”?

  118. @Bill P

    It’s also timed to distract attention from the Afghan fiasco, hence the culture-war insertions into what should have been a friendly reminder for vulnerable people to speak to their doctor about getting a shot for winter. Now we’re all yelling about mandatory vaccinations and it’s taking airtime away from the Taliban selling captured US arms to Iran, etc.

  119. WJ says:

    Quit being a damn safety Nazi. Screw all of your social reasons. Get the vaccine, like I did, to protect from or mitigate the affects of the virus and let every other damn person worry about themselves.

    Does the vax work or not?

  120. @Charlotte

    “How would they know whether you were vaccinated? Well, each employee must “attest” to his or her status by clicking yes or no on an online form, no proof requested or required. Pure theater masquerading as a hard-nosed policy.”

    In the UK the lure is that having both jabs makes travel abroad easier – there’s an NHS app which you have on your phone which shows your jab status and the app generates a barcode which is scanned before you fly.

    Being jabbed is the only recourse if you want to get into most of Europe. Same for Europeans coming here. Of course this has disparate impact on the young and diverse (though not apparently on all the Afghan “asylum seekers” who went back to visit family in Kabul and spread the good news about the UK asylum system), but no MSM figure has objected.

    But AFAIK even the Brit government doesn’t want to sack you for not being jabbed, with the single exception of care home staff. It remains to be seen how that will play out – many homes are staffed by minorities who are jab-averse. Some people ARE objecting to this.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1684

    In a profound departure from public health norms, new law will remove the right of care home staff in England to choose whether to be vaccinated against covid-19. The intended next step is a rapid and massive expansion of compulsory vaccination legally to require covid-19 and flu vaccination of all frontline health and social care workers, subject to consultation.

    Official claims that “we are not forcing anyone to take the vaccine” are disingenuous. Care home workers who reject covid-19 vaccination will be dismissed from employment without compensation and be barred from access to their occupation. A regulatory amendment will make it unlawful for care homes to permit care workers to enter the care home premises without proof of full vaccination. This will impose a new duty on all registered providers of residential care to verify the medical status of each worker, including full time and part time agency staff, staff employed directly by a care home, and volunteers. It will give responsibility for compliance and enforcement to the Care Quality Commission (CQC).

    The providers’ associations Care England and the National Care Forum, as well as trade unions, have expressed concern that coercion is not the best way forward. Vaccination is not a panacea for safety.

  121. @Thomas

    Vaccine mandates have been upheld as Constitutional since 1905.

    And thus it is so, now always and forever? Bad binary thinking there, Thomas. Laws change, precedents are overturned. Did you ever read about the Supreme Court upholding “separate but equal”? Is that still precedent?

    • Agree: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @mike99588
  122. JR Ewing says:
    @anon

    I had covid about 6 weeks ago and ended up in the hospital for a week. The nurses basically laughed at me when I said I was scared I’d get intubated and never see my family again, because as bad as I felt (and I felt BAD), and despite the high levels of oxygen I needed and the brief heart issues that developed, I apparently had a fairly mild case as far as the hospital goes. They had all seen worse.

    And they were right, after a week of treatments (Remdesivir and convalescent plasma) and drugs, I was better and went home.

    Anyway, point of the story is that prior to my being hospitalized, the pressure from my family – especially my mother and my mother in law – to take the undertested, gene-altering medication was immense. Basically, it was brought up to me once a day. (my wife was smart enough not to push the issue with me, but they nagged her about me too)

    So you would think that once I caught the actual disease itself and got gold-star natural immunity, this nagging would end, right? No way, Jose! It got worse! And most of the doctors, employees of the hospital, I might add, said the same thing! Wait six months and then YOU MUST CONFORM!

    However, one doctor, who was not a hospital employee, said it wasn’t needed and that it could be dangerous. He recommended Johnson and Johnson if I absolutely had to get the shot in the future. So, to assuage my wife and my family members, I’ll be searching out the J&J shot sometime after the end of the year.

    There is no way I’m taking the mRNA. No way at all.

  123. @Steve Sailer

    The PCR test does not tell if you have had covid, it only tells if you, right now, actively have it.

    But what we want to know is whether you’ve had it and are therefore naturally immune to getting it again. If the latter, then you don’t need the shot. Actually, if the former, you don’t need it either, but you can spread the disease so you should be quarantined.

    So, the PCR test should not be the primary focus except to determine active spreaders. A separate test which involves lab work reveals whether we have had and recoverd from the disease. This is the test the government should be offering free to everyone. That they conflate the two shows that their agenda is not the health and safety of the populace, but to push the vaccine on all and sundry, irrespective of the state of their likelihood of dying from or propagating the disease.

    And finally, the incidence of death among the young is so low as to be negligible. The push to innoculate them shows the Biden gang of crooks to be pathologically disturbed. There are two groups of people here, those who lose sight of the big numbers and those who keep them in perspective.

    • Replies: @By-tor
  124. JR Ewing says:
    @Rooster111

    “Asymptomatic spread” was the biggest con of this whole thing.

    Anyone with an 8th grade education knows that it’s virtually impossible and extremely rare, especially for respiratory viruses.

    But some people really wanted to believe the lie and and/or just really enjoyed being scared, so they believed the nonsense and put us on the road to hysteria and tyranny.

  125. @Alexander Turok

    Hello Corvie girl.

    How many sock puppets do you have on here?

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
  126. Leo D says:
    @epebble

    Okay, but what did they die of? People die every day.

    Died of covid you say, or Biden says? How do you know? Oh, yes…the postmortem PCR test with an absurdly high cycle rate that gives 90% false positives…

    That is why it matters, and that is why you should care.

    • Replies: @epebble
  127. JR Ewing says:
    @Anon

    I have an old college buddy who is a leftist doctor on the east coast. I still consider him my “buddy”, and he the same for me, because we both know that our politics don’t agree, so we just don’t discuss politics. We play fantasy football instead.

    Nonetheless, he is a big vaccine proponent and was trying to explain this to me, that no vaccine confers total “immunity”, just a reduction of the severity of infection, some so much that they are practically the same thing as eliminating infection. Which makes sense, but then raises the question as to why the covid “vaccines” don’t do this.

    He insists that the covid shots are true “vaccines”, but he refuses to answer the question – or more appropriately, he dodges it – as to why these “vaccines” are nowhere near as effective as traditional childhood vaccines like MRNA or varicella or polio or whatever.

    These “real” vaccines all have effectiveness well over 90% that last for many years and we no longer see diseases like chicken pox or measles tearing through elementary schools each year. But the covid “vaccines” are being shown to decline rapidly over 6-8 months until they are almost 0% effective. They cannot be considered to be the “same thing” because they quite clearly and evidentially are not.

    I think a lot of the current “vaccine fever” is driven by people who realize they made a mistake and now want to compel everyone else to make the same mistake so that they can feel better about the bad choice they initially made in their religious fervor. It’s not because the vaccines are effective.

  128. @Mr. Anon

    Just take the prick already! Stop resisting, it’s for your own … well, was it good for you, too?

    – Dr. A. Fauci, EXPERT!

  129. Gabe Ruth says:
    @Jack D

    Do you think it might affect as many as… 6 gorrillion? Time for retirement, bud.

  130. @onetwothree

    Even the workers in the garden whom the master invited in at the end of the day received a full wage.

    If Steve has looked at the facts and the science and changed his mind, I find it hard to condemn him. If he clung to the people who started with “two weeks to flatten the curve,” then he would be left outside the gates, wailing and gnashing his teeth.

    The only pro-social aspects of the mRNA therapy left are the not overcrowding emergency rooms, and not increasing medical expenditures, assuming they lead to a less severe infection when you get it. Do you have evidence to undermine their effectiveness in this? Present it; I suspect this is true, but haven’t seen convincing slam-dunk evidence that it is so. Until then, I’ll agree that the therapy seems to lessen incidence of severe Covid.

  131. Elsewhere says:
    @anon

    Yeah, I’ve been tested many times, including 5 PCR tests (the rest were biweekly antigen tests), and I haven’t tested positive, so the false-positive rate can’t be all that high. Every PCR test was taken when I was sick with some kind of a cold, so it’s not accurate to say that it will pick up anything and call it COVID. It will identify mild or asymptomatic cases that would have otherwise gone unnoticed.

  132. Redman says:
    @SimpleSong

    Methinks you’ve been drinking the vaccine cool aid from big pharma, et al. How exactly are the vaccines good for “society” if they don’t lessen transmission and may even increase it? How are they good for society if they create new and more transmissible variants through ADE? And why aren’t these basic concepts permitted to be discussed in a free society?

    Open your eyes.

  133. Elsewhere says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Just because every other country in the world is vaccinating people against Covid-19 without too much fuss, it doesn’t mean that is right for the Upside-down States.

    You lost me here. There are massive protests all over Europe against vaccine mandates.

  134. If this was in fact a “leaky” vaccine, it would look like the current situation: more potent variants attacking younger, healthier people.

    “95% effectiveness!” we were told, whatever that means. Now it’s down to 60% effectiveness and you won’t get as sick. And it wears off after 5 months so see you again soon. (BTW, whatever you think about the vaccine, a majority of the population is simply not going to adhere to a rigorous every-5-months-for-life schedule).

    How “effective” is a vaccine that doesn’t prevent infections, doesn’t stop transmittal, and you can still end up dead or in the hospital, and wears off after 5 months? Why wouldn’t it just push variation?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  135. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer

    True but one risk (covid) is large and the other (myocarditis) is rare and is associated only with certain brands of vaccine so an exemption just for men makes no sense.

    If you are going to have mandatory vaccines (IF) then it makes sense to have as few loopholes as possible or else they are not really mandatory. Our whole society is being destroyed by exceptions for special snowflakes – you can’t use the ladies room if you are a guy EXCEPT if you are a trannie. You can’t cross the border without a visa EXCEPT if you say that you are a political refugee. Etc. Eventually there are so many exceptions that the rule is not really a rule anymore.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    , @Gabe Ruth
    , @Kratoklastes
  136. Apparently, the Biden Administration is uninterested in offering reasonable compromises that would suggest it is listening to the vaccine unenthusiastic. Instead, the politics are to propound that there are no reasonable objections to vaccinations.

    People have pointed out that this announcement broke the Afghanistan withdrawal news cycle.

    Also, since Biden’s argument for election was that he would end the COVID-19 Pandemic, and since he hasn’t been able to accomplish this,* making it a “Pandemic of the unvaccinated” permits Biden to offload his political problem onto those perceived to be his political adversaries.

    * There is a substantial part of the Democrats’ electoral coalition, namely college educated white women, who seem to actually like the restrictions as a veiled means to put the screws to badwhites. They’ve been worked up into a frenzy, and they’re just not going to accept that this thing is over.

  137. Seneca44 says:
    @onetwothree

    The Socialists/Democrats can’t seem to get that even very desirable actions are not necessarily the purview of the central government. Of course, if you believe that EVERYTHING is government, then their position makes sense.

  138. Redman says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Why can’t it be both to some extent? It seems to me there’s plenty of evidence that the PCR tests aren’t very precise and that at high numbers of cycles there are lots of false positives. Thus, last years Covid “death” numbers may be vastly inflated.

    On the other hand, Covid has been around a while now, with up to 80% of people having had it with no or very minimal symptoms. Yet very few people I know have gotten antibody tests, so it’s likely impossible to know precisely how many people have had Covid at some point.

    I’ve never believed in the kind of “herd immunity” now being discussed. Is there herd immunity for the common cold? I don’t think so. Covid will probably eventually be another common cold as it evolves through less lethal variants over time.

  139. Anon7 says:

    Dr. Robert W. Malone, inventor of mRNA vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna, just tweeted this (Sept. 10):

    “The central conflict is over the ability of powerful financial interests to control a centralized horizontally integrated global collectivist organization versus a decentralized community of individuals and groups able to act independently and with autonomy.”

    “In other words, individual freedom and autonomy versus authoritarian control and collectivism.

    This is actually an ancient conflict which is central to the human condition, playing out once again but on a modern battlefield.”

    In this recent interview, he defines his objections, and recommends that only people who are in a specific risk group (over 70, etc.) should get the vaccine. Others should not.

    https://rumble.com/vlymnl-dr.-robert-malone-gravest-concerns-on-universal-vaccination.html

  140. If you want it free and now gutenberg has it available on line:

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/24518/24518-h/24518-h.htm

    In 1940 every American who publicly opposed fighting the Axis was excommunicated. Some of them were better men than you and I. I think I am going to shut up.

  141. Jack D says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Federal power to regulate “interstate commerce” and the workplace is almost limitless. What do you think OSHA is about? The ADA? The EEOC? The Federal minimum wage? State sovereignty is dead.

    The State’s mandate in question was merely to penalize (fine, jail) citizens who refused vaccination, or to prohibit them from entering the State. The mandate was not for forcible injection

    Biden doesn’t propose to tie you to a chair and jab you either. He won’t even fine you or put you in jail. You just lose your job so you can’t infect your coworkers.

    Biden’s proposal also has medical and religious exceptions.

    I don’t know what freedom of assembly has to do with this, especially since there are religious exceptions.

    Biden’s proposal left out transportation. What he should have required was no getting on a plane, train or bus unless you are vaccinated. Again, no compulsion involved, you just can’t get on the plane.

  142. Seneca44 says:
    @The Craw

    Interesting that our Northern border is still, while not quite sealed, restricted for entry into the US for Canadians for anything but essential reasons (whatever they are). Entire provinces up there have fewer cases than single metro areas here.
    Kabuki theatre indeed.

  143. Reagan: “Tear down this wall”
    Biden: “Get off my lawn”

  144. Mr. Anon says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    That the global monster class will exploit the climate destabilisation crisis to their benefit (mostly to sacrifice billions of ‘useless eaters’ to save their own hides, I suspect) does NOT render the science and the facts null and void. Why do denialists have such difficulty grasping that simple fact? Can they really be that stupid?

    What does that mean – denialist? What is it that I supposedly deny? That there is a pandemic? I deny no such thing. There is a pandemic. What there is not, is a crisis. Not actually owing to the pandemic anyway. There is a crisis due to the response to the pandemic and it is – as virtually all crises are – engineered by the powerful to further their own agenda.

    You invoke the “global monster class”. Do you doubt that this “monster class” wouldn’t exploit a pandemic to further their monstrous plans? Can you be that stupid?

  145. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jack D

    Federal power to regulate “interstate commerce” and the workplace is almost limitless. What do you think OSHA is about? The ADA? The EEOC? The Federal minimum wage? State sovereignty is dead.

    They have the power. They don’t have the constitutional authority. State sovereignty is dead because people didn’t defend it. Now sounds like a good time to start defending it.

    We know that you really don’t believe in civil liberties, Jack. You’ve openly admitted as much here in the past, and are openly doing so again. Nobody who does value them values anything you have to say on the matter.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @Jack D
  146. Anon[311] • Disclaimer says:

    I see only religious and medical exemptions listed. What about exemptions for having already having had a documented case of covid and still having natural antibodies against it? What about an exemption for being, say, male, under 30, and with a BMI under 25? What about a medical exemption for the second dose people who have a bad adverse event reaction following the first dose?

    These all come under the “Lie about being vaccination” exception.

    None of the cases you list above are a problem: Just lie.

    The case you didn’t include is the guy who insists on being a public performative anti-vax signaling look-at-me-I’m-a-rebel type. If you simply don’t want to be vaccinated, don’t, and lie about it.

    • Agree: zacie
  147. Barnard says:

    How are they going to spin it when Sleepy Joe gets Covid? His 2 shots have already worn off and given the number of people who come into contact with he cannot isolate very easily. It is possible they already gave him a booster. Should be a good test case for if the vaccine really does prevent hospitalization in the elderly.

  148. @epebble

    What about an exemption for being, say, male, under 30, and with a BMI under 25?

    There’s where I say you should investigate the heart and heart lining inflammation adverse effects before getting an mRNA vaccine, but iSteve’s numbers 4 and 5 still strongly apply if you haven’t yet gotten infected, getting vaccinated will still reduce transmission and almost certainly a lot more than wearing a surgical grade plus or minus mask.

    An alternative is properly wearing a 3M no-valve industrial grade N95 mask (medical grade just adds splash protection for those doing procedures on infected patients). I recommend http://www.grainger.com as a source for “you bet your life” equipment, I don’t come even close to satisfying your age criteria so I’ve been using those masks on top of mRNA vaccination.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  149. Gary says:

    Stevei, get off your lazy butt. Do some investigation. 1) read numerous reports
    from medical professionals especially nurses. 2) check out situation in person
    if possible. Delta is overwhelmingly COVID “VACCINE” INJURIES.
    Millions of Americans are suffering side effect injuries and/or deaths.

    Are you in denial since you and your family have taken the Pfizer/Moderna
    jabs? If you love your family, find out supplements that will reduce or
    eliminate these side effects on you and your family. If you don’t,
    your children will curse your name.

  150. Thomas says:
    @R.G. Camara

    Hey, if the right wants to go down another unpopular crank rabbit hole, the next QAnon, and this time ghettoize itself even more out of public and most private-sector employment, and its kids out of school, awesome plan. Winning over a noisy, innumerate minority will definitely offset all the people pissed off about the continuing lockdowns and mask mandates, which can be readily blamed on the anti-vaxx kooks. Puts the Kushner Strategy to shame. It’s this quality of thinking that has let the right conserve so many things over the past 40 years.

  151. Gamecock says:
    @SimpleSong

    You are correct, SimpleSong.

    I first noticed it in the early 60s, when the government mandated seat belts in cars. The wrong path was entered when people argued that seat belts are a good idea. Incrementally, the government took more and more control, the arguments being over whether their rule was a good idea or not. Never over

    DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THIS?

    So now we have 600 Alphabet Agencies telling us how to live. Not a one authorized by the Constitution.

    The people embrace this fascist control (strong, autocratic central control of a private economy). They EXPECT government to protect them; they demand government protect them.

  152. @Ken52

    Contradictory evidence on whether Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid than Unvaccinated people. There was one study that suggested that vaccinated people make be able to have a heavier viral load and not feel sick than unvaccinated people.

    Can you remember any details about that study? It’s not what was found in the Vietnam study, nor apparent from the abstracts of the Wisconsin and Netherlands studies which I really need to get around and read, and the latter went to the extra trouble of culturing samples in a BSL-3 lab, RT-PCR can’t discern between whole viable viruses and viral debris.

    The Vietnam study looked to be of very high quality, and could detect no extra nasopharyngeal viral load between asymptomatic people with classic Wuhan in March-April 2020 in a previous study and asymptomatic AZ/Oxford (that is, not exactly the best vaccine) vaccinated healthcare workers in a summer 2021 Delta locked down hospital outbreak. That’s the one that came up with a 251 times greater load in that part of the body for the symptomatic in both studies, as expected from Delta.

    • Replies: @Ken52
  153. Thomas says:
    @Almost Missouri

    • The State (not the Federal government) had the “police power” to mandate a vaccination.

    Right, the states have the general police power, which the federal government does not. That’s why Biden hasn’t tried an actual direct mandate. The federal government does however have power over a lot of things, like interstate commerce, OSHA, its own workforce, etc. And it also has a lot of levers to force the states to exercise the police power in particular ways (most cited example, the 21 drinking age tied to federal highway funding).

    • The State mandate included many exceptions, e.g., children were not to be vaccinated, physicians could exempt their patients on medical grounds, etc. The Court specifically mentioned these exceptions as part of why they considered the mandate “reasonable”.

    Every proposed mandate I’ve seen has similar particular, narrow exceptions.

    Finally, most of this vaccination/quarantine jurisprudence predates De Jonge v. Oregon, 299 U.S. 353 (1937), which used the “incorporation doctrine” to apply the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s power to inhibit freedom of assembly. So how will new vaccine mandates hold up against the Fourteenth’s more recently turbocharged guarantee of freedom of assembly?

    SCOTUS has cited Jacobson as recently as 1995, post most of the relevant 14th Amendment jurisprudence.

    There was a definite trend over the last two thirds of the 20th century for courts to decide in favor of individual liberty and against state interest. But nowadays there is an even more recent trend for courts to decide in favor of amorphous good-isms (e.g., diversity) and against everything else.

    So, like so many court decisions nowadays, it is likely to come down to the personal prejudices of the human beings who happen to wear the black robes while they sit on a high bench.

    The median age of the justices is 65, right around the age that hospitalization and death from COVID ramps up hard. I have no doubt that all of the justices, and their clerks and staff, have been vaccinated.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  154. @Elsewhere

    Maybe. Unlike 1963, some portion of the population might approve such an action, loudly, proudly, and brashly. If I were the PTB, I would not want to risk a spontaneous, popular, mass celebration breaking out. Power transfers are tricky things in the best of circumstances.

    Also, no one likes Kamala.

  155. @Anonymous

    My teen kids have massive multi-day reactions to the flu shot.

    Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, anaphylaxis one year too.

    What the hell am I supposed to do?

    Does “Biden’s” mandate cover them?? Do they have reactions like this to anything else?

    One thing you can do is note the existing COVID US authorized vaccines are completely different that US flu vaccines, which are “passive,” are flu surface proteins plus in one case an adjuvant, grown either in chicken egg membrane cells or bug cells. The COVID vaccines are “active,” hijack cells to make classic Wuhan SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins with stabilization added (that is, obviously not flu proteins), are made in almost completely different ways (both FluBlok and Janssen are made in cell cultures, but bug vs. human respectively, there might be something common that’s not completely filtered out) and don’t have any egg or bug cell remnants (after purification), nor adjuvants.

    If you’re not in the US, you want to try hard to avoid the (AZ/SII/)Oxford vaccine in most scenarios. If you have other options, ask.

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  156. JMcG says:
    @Jack D

    One loophole appears to be working for the Post Office.

  157. Gabe Ruth says:
    @Anon

    Are you just obtuse, or are you willfully ignoring the opening qualification?

    Covid cult devotees can’t have it both ways, where vaccinated people must continue various performative actions to satisfy their gods, but unvaccinated people are going to cause human extinction because of their obstinacy.

    At this point, remaining in the control group has gotten to be a matter of principle in addition to being the result of personal risk/benefit analysis.

  158. @SimpleSong

    “Think hard about which battle your enemy wants you to fight.”

    This is poor advice in this case. You have to fight your enemy when and where he attacks you, or you simply retreat. What you are suggesting is winning battles while losing the war.

    • Replies: @Sick 'n Tired
  159. Anon[413] • Disclaimer says:

    @ The good news is that infection while vaccinated is considerably less likely to be severe. And then you get natural immunity for at least awhile.

    I’m hoping that’s true. However the question D. Raoult poses a year ago is more valid today: Should we give treatment to the young (I.e. with few symptoms)?

    Two anecdotes:
    A 74 year old aunt recently got Covid, she is overweight, high blood sugar, and vaccinated. Very few symptoms, but now 5 weeks out, she is short of breath and has a high D-summer.

    A friend of a friend I had lunch with yesterday.. 30 years old, male vaccinated. Got covid, almost asymptomatic, got over covid. Became irascible and impatient. Eventually went home and committed suicide. Family did autopsy. Brain showed heavy damage, lots of inflammation, something like meningitis.

    It is criminal to withhold timely treatment to all. Vaccines are not enough, specially the leaky ones. The bug has an appetite for the nervous system.

  160. Gabe Ruth says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    Wow, way to trigger the boomers. I have often wondered about this question as well.

  161. Isn’t permanent vaccine damage socially and medically even more expensive than getting a flu? Or is it as long as vaccine advocates can pretend they don’t exist, all will be good? The indifference to the plight of the vaccine damaged is staggering. We are beginning to learn the damages to this “sort of vaccine” vaccine. If some scientists and doctors are correct, an untimely mass death in three to seven years will be the ultimate damage. I know they are cranks, and not reading the proper data. Anyway the lovely list of why we should all submit would be better applied to the STD riddled folks but with replacing the jabs with leg closures.

  162. Gabe Ruth says:
    @Jack D

    Are you even trying anymore Jack? Gotta apply our asinine and ad hoc who-whom-derived “rules” consistently, or the libs will own us on teevee.

  163. Dmon says:
    @Jack D

    I do my job slowly and poorly, I frequently misplace things, and I have an inflated sense of entitlement. Do you think I can qualify for the postal workers exemption?

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  164. @anon

    Your argument is fallacious. We don’t know what that 10% positive rate actually is measuring. That has been the problem from the very beginning- there is no gold standard to measure the PCR test against. It isn’t like all 10% of any given positive cohort have symptoms of COVID, or ever did. Most of the tests and the positives are the tests taken in hospital admissions of all types and attempts to contact trace other positives, again without limiting to those with symptoms.

    In short, we don’t know how many false positives are among that 10% of positives the last week, and we have no way of knowing because we really haven’t done the work necessary to validate the test at any point. Just because 90% test negative doesn’t support the idea the false positive rate must thus be low.

    What should have been done all along was to test only people with symptoms. People with symptoms and actually infected with COVID will show up positive at less than 25 cycles of amplification, and if they don’t, then they are infected with something else. However, we fell for the contact trace scheme, and test everyone who wants a test and everyone that person came into contact with if positive, and we do it at amplification levels that can easily be positive due to any level of contamination in the laboratory, or in the particular run.

    If we continue to run 1-2 million RT-PCR tests/day at the same cycle levels in the US this Fall, we will see a similar sized wave of COVID that we saw last year, and I don’t give a shit every single person is vaccinated. The only way this madness ends is by ending the testing regime.

    • Agree: JR Ewing
  165. @anonymous

    I don’t have anything special to contribute to this general topic of (Federal) government coercion, but I remember one anecdote from when Biden was a first term Senator in the early-mid 1970s and very young for that, wasn’t of the legal age of 30 for the position until after the 1972 election and before he was sworn in.

    He was talking to someone from the media, I think it was a newspaper, and mentioned that he could get the publisher shut down if he wanted to. He hasn’t had any respect for the Constitution, our small c constitution (see his before and after remarks on Bork WRT to the latter’s nomination to go from a one level lower Federal appeals court to the Supreme Court), in general he’s been a mentally unconstrained wrecking ball for more than four decades. And now is an old man who’s obviously losing his mental capabilities but still has plenty of hate in his black heart, it doesn’t take much of anything for him to “lose his patience.”

    • Replies: @Jack D
  166. @Jack D

    Federal power to regulate “interstate commerce” and the workplace is almost limitless. What do you think OSHA is about? The ADA? The EEOC? The Federal minimum wage? State sovereignty is dead.

    Jack, you are nearly completely correct that Federal jurisprudence “interpreting” the commerce clause has held that its power is functionally endless. But as those of us with a brain know, it is a long line of ad hoc casuistry. The Federal government doesn’t regulate interstate commerce, it regulates whatever it wants whether it is interstate or commercial in nature or not. It’s a sort of endless, dependent causation college bull session made law – “a butterfly in the Sahara flaps its wings . . . and that’s why my paper was late, honest.”

    Nevertheless, even the limitless commerce clause explicitly vests the power of regulation no matter how limitless in Congress, not the President.

  167. @Jonathan Mason

    The current mandated vaccines actually prevent infection. They are sterilizing vaccines. These Coronavirus vaccines are non- sterilizing, do not stop the spread of CV, as we see in Israel and here in the US

    Children face a greater fatality rate from influenza , yet the flu vaccines have never been mandated. Yet mandating the flu vaccine would prevent more childhood deaths than the Covid vaccines. The data indicates that children are not spreading the virus to others because they have lower viral loads and easily fight off this coronavirus. It is madness to force our children to get these Covid vaccines.it will do nothing to reduce the spread of CV and is risky for the 33% of children who already defeated CV and have acquired immunity.

    Getting your kids and grandkids vaccinated will not protect you from contracting CV. They can still contract Covid and spread it to family members. There is little upside to vaccinating children but significant risks. The elderly will just need to get the booster every 6 months to stay safe.

  168. Element59 says:

    This is all so tiresome…

    I am not in any risk group for infection. I am not worried about getting infected. COVID-19 and its variants are comparatively very low mortality diseases in the history of infectious diseases to forcibly mandate vaccines for all. I believe in the science of vaccines. I believe in my right to choose what goes into my body and making my own health decisions.

    Those who are in risk groups (and they should know who they are by now!), should be the ones choosing to get the vaccine and making health decisions for themselves. Remember, we were told in April 2020 that it would require a two week lockdown to “flatten the curve” to allow hospitals to build up and allocate their resources, and to practice safe “social distancing” at a time when far less was known about the true danger of COVID-19 – and the worst-case scenarios were being anticipated.

    This whole “pandemic” has been managed by a heavy-handed, bureaucratic elite in government institutions which attracts the very kinds of people who believe that “benevolent” government is the solution to society’s problems. The hysteria of the “harm prevention” mentality combined with an overly litigious and politicized society has made it nearly impossible for the public to know exactly the health threats of and the hard data on COVID infections.

    A for-profit news media industry which serve their target ideologically partisan audiences, further compound this mess…if it bleeds, it leads…abandoning basic journalistic principles of objectivity and holding our powers-that-be accountable and rigorously investigating the stated “facts”.

    We never hear about the exact accuracy of positive PCR tests, we will never be told the data on positive PCR tests-to-symptoms rates, we will never be told the symptoms-to-serious infection rates. We are never shown the data charts focusing on the demographics who are actually driving the serious infections and mortality rates, we just hear total numbers of these…it’s ONE SIZE FITS ALL reporting. And the constant parading of truly outlier cases…otherwise “healthy” younger persons, families devastated, children dying…do serious damage to the public’s perception of reality.

    I’m tired of feeling manipulated, deceived, coerced, and forced to go along with this charade. The carrot has been dangled far too long…and we the people will never benefit from the profitability and job security of perpetuating all this harm hysteria.

    Steve – Please stop playing along with this and start rigorously asking basic, tough hard questions about what exactly we’re constantly being told (and not being told!) by the so-called “authorities”. And, why should we submit ourselves (healthy, very low risk groups) to this authoritarian demand of forced vaccinations, of carrying vaccination passports, and the slippery slope gateway that this new approach to public safety is now opening to further restrict the individual rights of us plebes by our bureaucratic government authorities?

    • Thanks: JR Ewing
  169. @Thomas

    As far as I’m concerned, if the government can draft you into the army and send you to die halfway across the world, it can make you get a shot whether you want to or not.

    This is a stupid form of argument. “If the government can literally force you to go die, it can do whatever it wants to you short of ordering your death for any reason.”

    You’re arguing that the government’s power is limitless, but I’m certain if pressed you’d find any number of limits short of “conscript you to go die” to the government’s power. You just like the vaccine mandate power much better than the others.

  170. @Thomas

    Hey, if the right wants to go down another unpopular crank rabbit hole, the next QAnon, and this time ghettoize itself even more out of public and most private-sector employment, and its kids out of school, awesome plan. Winning over a noisy, innumerate minority will definitely offset all the people pissed off about the continuing lockdowns and mask mandates, which can be readily blamed on the anti-vaxx kooks. Puts the Kushner Strategy to shame. It’s this quality of thinking that has let the right conserve so many things over the past 40 years.

    Good point. We should definitely take this loss patently engineered by Biden’s Bugmen puppeteers to oppress a large swath of our people and shift the political blame for unnecessary and ineffective public health measures favored by the President’s Karen constituency from the President to his political adversaries because we’ll be in a better position to fight the next battle.

    But of course next time will be just like this time, and we’ll be fighting an uphill battle against a 24/7 wall of propaganda, so we’d need to jettison our people at that next time, too.

    The other side is literally mutilating children’s genitals, increasingly against the will of the children’s parents, and it can seem to get its entire media and elected apparatus behind that on a dime and turn the screws to us. But keeping Biden to his “no vaccine mandate” pledge from, *checks notes,* seven months ago is beyond the pale?

    • Replies: @Thomas
  171. J.Ross says:

    UK Telegraph admits “vaccine” worse than covid for teenagers, who tend not to be 85 years old.
    https://archive.is/unIsP https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/

    • Replies: @HA
  172. Jack D says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    I’ve noticed a disturbing new trend here where people will press the “troll” button for posts that they merely disagree with. What TWBT wrote doesn’t meet any reasonable definition of “troll”. You may vehemently disagree with his views on vaccination, masking, etc. but his views are sincerely held by him and are within the scientific mainstream. Just because they are enraging to anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers doesn’t make them trolls. When people here post really stupid, unscientific shit about how vaccines will alter your DNA and make you infertile, I don’t hit the troll button on them. I recognize that these are their sincerely held (if perhaps misguided) beliefs – they are not saying this stuff merely to provoke. If you disagree, press the disagree button.

    Regarding masks, the valved N95s are more comfortable, especially if you are going to be wearing the mask for a long time. Making it easier to exhale means that it’s less hard work to breath. The one way valve means that on intake they are equal to non-valve N95s in terms of filtering particles coming into your lungs. On exhale, NIOSH has shown that they are STILL superior to surgical masks, cloth masks, etc. which most other people are wearing.

    https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2021-107/default.html

    Therefore, I am comfortable (in both senses) wearing the valved N95s. The 3M valved N95s use an elastic band rather than a rubber band for straps and I have found their straps to be less likely to break or detach.

  173. John1955 says:

    “Never give an order that can’t be obeyed.”
    Douglas MacArthur

    Even the recently commissioned West Pointer knows that.Because if your order is disobeyed then E1 must end up in the Brig.Or O1 must surrender his commission/be transferred to Siberia.

    Now look at the guy who pretends to be Commander-in-Chief or President of Something:

    March 2021
    Biden:Address me as Mr.President!!!
    Gov DeSantis:I will not,and fu…ck you,Joe

    August 2021:
    Biden:Hey,Cliff Clavin, you better be vaccinated or else !!!
    USPS: Fu..c..k ye,Joe

  174. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    If there really is a plague, and the vaccines works, and the president is a king, then why is there a religious exemption? Why is there any exemption?

    • Replies: @Anon
  175. @Jack D

    If you’re still wearing a mask you really are a neurotic fool.

    The mask hypothesis relies on one of two premises:

    1. You are going about every day in a miasma of virus which the mask protects you against, like your car’s windshield in a cloud of lovebugs. But that means the virus is also settling on your hair, your clothes, your exposed skin, and your mask is a biohazard at the end of the day. (You’ll probably build an airlock on your house at this point).

    2. You are a COVID virus-shedding machine, exhaling infected particles with every breath. In which event you need to be home, on the couch, instead of walking around with your sheetrock hanger’s mask which, mechanically, will not trap more than 10% of virus in any event. If you don’t believe me, take a drag on a cigarette, put your mask on, and exhale. Let me know what happens with the smoke. If everybody should be wearing a mask because everybody is shedding the virus, it’s already endemic. From a public health standpoint, the mask is as useless on you as a brassiere. You should, however, refrain from hawking mucus directly into people’s faces, which is really the only thing a mask prevents you from doing.

    If masks worked, we wouldn’t even need studies to tease results out of fractions of a hundred thousand. It would be like when doctors started sterilizing surgical instruments: you could point to the pile of corpses before, and the absence of corpses after.

  176. Jack D says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    and mentioned that he could get the publisher shut down if he wanted to.

    This is very much in keeping with Biden’s character. It’s more indicative of his bluster than his actual capabilities (just as this vaccine “mandate” is). Do you really thing that he, as a junior senator, really had the power to shut down a publisher? Biden says stuff like this as a form of verbal aggression and to show how tough he supposedly is, not as a sincere threat that he is capable of carrying out. Sure he would if he could, but usually he can’t. In fact if he REALLY had that power (say he was Xi Jinping) he wouldn’t threaten you in advance – he would just do it and you would never see it coming.

  177. @Jack D

    Federal power to regulate “interstate commerce” and the workplace is almost limitless.

    Since about the last eight decades, agreed. For the century and a half before that, not so much.

    How did the Federal government suddenly switch from regulating almost nothing to regulating almost everything under the rubric of “interstate commerce”? Did the text of the commerce clause change?

    No.

    Did a Constitutional amendment pass?

    No.

    What happened was that nine guys wearing black robes got together and declared it to be changed. That was it.

    [I know you already know all this, but non-lawyers read this too.]

    There is nothing to stop another nine people in black robes from getting together and changing it back if they so choose. Since the Founders were still alive for part of the initial century and a half of commerce clause jurisprudence and they registered no particular objection to it, it is safe to say that that former commerce clause jurisprudence was the Constitutionally “correct” one. Unlike the Federal usurpation that we call the “New Deal”, restoring state sovereignty and the original interpretation of the commerce clause would have the additional legitimacy of being what the Constitution actually means.

    Is that likely to happen? No, probably not. But that’s not because it can’t. It’s just because the nine people in a position to do it prefer to maintain the legal fictions that underpin the Federal superstate.

    Still, things can change. They did in the New Deal. They could again.

    Biden doesn’t propose to tie you to a chair and jab you

    …yet.

    If there is no pushback, it will eventually reach that stage. As mentioned, Dershowitiz is already out there shilling for it. As you said, the Feds see their power as “limitless”.

    I don’t know what freedom of assembly has to do with this

    If unvaccinated people can choose to congregate and work together, that is freedom of assembly.

  178. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    Assuming this mandate applies to your kids at all (it probably doesn’t), it provides for medical exemptions. Therefore, speak to your kids’ doctor and assuming he agrees that their reaction to the flu shot is, in his professional opinion, a medically sufficient reason to avoid the Covid vaccine (it probably isn’t) he will write you an exemption note. If he doesn’t think this, then your fear is just that – irrational fear of the unknown, not a true medical reason to avoid the vaccine.

    I would also discuss this with your children themselves and give them a voice in their decision. They are not babies anymore. They should have input on their own medical care. Maybe they want the vaccine?

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  179. Truth says:

    Quick simplification:

    if you clowns take the booster shot; you’re dead.

  180. Anon[310] • Disclaimer says:

    It won’t work. We have a massive illegal immigrant population that cycles in and out of the US at whim, and until these immigrants all catch Covid and develop herd immunity, Covid will stay with us. They will ignore all mandates because they don’t want to be caught by the authorities, and most of them are young enough that they know Covid is no threat to their health. A 20-year old manual laborer has little to fear from the disease. It’s just the common cold to them.

    The US will not develop herd immunity until after Mexico does.

  181. Ken52 says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Can’t locate it. I hadn’t read the actual study. I believe I had read about it on Berenson’s Twitter feed which has since been deleted. Still in my mind it is distinct possibility that if the vaccines prevent one from getting sick or feeling sick, they would be more likely to still be in public while carrying a serious viral load than an unvaccinated person, who would more likely to know they were sick. But I can’t find the referenced study and if there was one thing this pandemic has taught me is that there are limits to the logic of my thinking. 🤔

  182. anon[343] • Disclaimer says:

    “We’re all gonna get covid. It won’t be that bad.”
    My immunologist, last month

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  183. Jeep says:

    Still bought into the lie, I see.
    Wake up.
    There is no “Delta Variant.”
    There is no “Covid-19.”
    There are just mislabeling of illness and people being tricked into getting themselves poisoned to death over it.
    Then they label the poisonings as more “cases of the disease.”
    Wake. The fuck. Up.

  184. @Neil Templeton

    When it becomes mandatory to present your Vax Passport in order to enter a grocery store, I guess the unvaxed will be able to say “Sorry, I’m undocumented” and TPTB will be totally cool with that.

  185. Is this when America finally runs out of patience with the idiots in the government?

    A few months back my employer said that if enough of us got vaccinated, they would open our work site back up. (We’ve been working from home since 3/2020 and it sucks.)

    So I told them I’d been vaccinated (which I had) and enough other people did that they started easing some restrictions. Then last month because of Delta they reneged and went back to the old rules.

    I won’t be cooperating any further on this matter. If they want some kind of proof of vaccination, then I’m done with them.

    I just bought a 10-acre bean field, and I can still swing a hammer. So maybe my next job will be building myself a house out where I don’t have to put up with any more of this horseshit.

  186. @Thomas

    SCOTUS has cited Jacobson as recently as 1995, post most of the relevant 14th Amendment jurisprudence.

    The Court generally continues to cite cases up until they explicitly overrule them (or more usually, until they overrule specific aspects, as the Court prefers to maintain the appearance of consistency even when it is making serious changes.)

    Still, a favorable 1995 citation is a mild signal of assent for the current Court. (Though I think Thomas and Breyer are the only Justices still around from back then.) But even a full-throated upholding of Jacobson does not create a new Federal police power. If some States want draconian vaccine mandates, I think most people are fine with that, so long as they do it through their ordinary legislative channels. It’s the sneaky Federal end runs, which never get voted on by more than nine people, that get Americans justifiably upset.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  187. Jack D says:
    @Almost Missouri

    That the Constitution means what nine guys and gals say it means is not be a profound insight. How could it be otherwise? Someone has to have the last word. If not them then who?

    That being said, the Supreme Court (believe it or not) takes the principle of stare decisis very seriously and does not overrule existing precedent lightly each time the balance of the Court shifts. Just because the law is decided by these nine people doesn’t mean that it’s whatever they want it to mean and that it can be one thing on Tuesday and something else on Wednesday.

    At this point, I would say going back to the original interpretation of the Commerce Clause is well nigh impossible – you would have to get rid of 3/4ths of the modern Federal government – the SEC, the EPA, the FDA, etc. There is no functioning modern country that has a (lack of) central government equivalent to the scope of the Federal government in 1932. The world has gotten a lot more complex since 1932 and people’s risk tolerance has gone way down. Even if they did, the response would probably be a Constitutional amendment to restore the status quo as it has existed for the past almost 90 years. Keep in mind, BTW, that there are also areas where conservatives would like to interfere with state sovereignty in the name of promoting for example 2nd Amendment rights – this is not a one way street.

    If unvaccinated people can choose to congregate and work together, that is freedom of assembly.

    There is an old saw that my freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins. Likewise, your freedom to cough virus particles up ends where my lungs begin. I suppose you could set up a business that only employed unvaccinated people and that posted a sign warning the public to enter at their own risk. But if your business has a mixed workforce, having the unvaccinated around poses a risk to other employees and to customers (for example children under 12) who for some medical reason cannot be vaccinated themselves. Good luck taking your “freedom of assembly” argument to the Supreme Court, again especially in light of the fact that mandate expressly includes a religious exemption.

  188. @Jack D

    The “vaccine” does not suppress the virus. There is no difference between you and an unvaccinated person in that regard. You can still get infected, still even get deathly ill, and still transmit the virus.

    You could actually be shedding more potent strains than otherwise as this weak, ephemeral “vaccine” chases–and pushes–the virus from behind.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  189. Jack D says:
    @Almost Missouri

    It’s the sneaky Federal end runs, which never get voted on by more than nine people,

    That’s a different issue. While Jacobson spoke only to state law, it’s not a big leap in the modern (since 1934) context to say that Covid is a national issue which can’t be dealt with on a state by state basis. Honest to goodness, if this goes before the court, even with its current “conservative” composition which is as likely as good as it’s going to get for the foreseeable future, they are not going to rule that there is no Federal power to regulate vaccination. Bzzzt. Not happening in this world.

    However, what IS a live issue is the question of what powers does the executive branch have in the absence of a statute that was passed by Congress? Or even a Federal regulation that was duly promulgated after a comment period, etc. The idea that because there is some kind of self declared “crisis” or “emergency” that the President and the CDC can just rule by decree (e.g. the eviction moratorium) is (rightly) not one that warms the heart of the Justices. That way lies dictatorship.

    If Biden wants to put this in a bill and have it passed by both houses of Congress and sign it into law, then great. The S. Ct. is not going to stop him on state sovereignty grounds. But the way that he is doing this is far short of that.

    • Replies: @Thomas
  190. @Almost Missouri

    There is nothing to stop another nine people in black robes from getting together and changing it back if they so choose….

    Is that likely to happen? No, probably not.

    Unless and until the Left’s political violence is stopped, it’s exceedingly unlikely to happen.

    Perhaps the single worst thing about Trump, he had almost no visible interest or ability to protect anyone except maybe his family. Antifa had been bloodying his supporters starting during the campaign, and at most he Tweeted he was monitoring the situation. His people inside and outside the Administration were persecuted and at most he commuted their sentences and/or pardoned them, but not before they were ruined.

    And of course he did nothing about the summer of Antifa and BLM violence outside a block or two of the White House, even when Antifa escalated to premeditated murder of his supporters. Nor any support for Kyle of Duty as I recall. The members of the Supreme Court, including his own picks? Why on earth would they stick their neck out for him, or now do anything that would upset the Left “too much?”

    Assuming we’re ever again allowed to put someone not from the Uniparty in the Oval Office, we need someone who’s not quite so self-centered.

  191. @Anonymous

    My teen kids have massive multi-day reactions to the flu shot.

    Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, anaphylaxis one year too.

    What the hell am I supposed to do?

    It might not be caused by the flu vaccine. In any case, you should consult your pediatrican regarding the Covid-19 vaccine and which type of vaccine might be the most suitable for them. Although such reactions are very rare, children who are allergic to egg products could be affected by certain vaccines, but not others.

    Certainly if they have any kind of vaccinations in the future, it would be well to have them under medical supervision for a few hours afterwards with antidotes such as antihistamines on hand.

    This is an interesting case history.

    Influenza vaccine-associated anaphylaxis is a very rare allergic reaction to vaccines, but the most concerning and life-threatening adverse reaction. Although the safety of influenza vaccines has been well documented, occasional cases of anaphylaxis in vaccinated patients have been reported. In this study, we analyzed the immunoglobulin E (IgE) response to whole influenza vaccines in a pediatric case of delayed-onset anaphylaxis after influenza vaccination. The patient showed elevated specific IgE levels against whole influenza vaccines, especially with split virion from egg-based manufacturing process. Specific IgE levels to influenza vaccines showed decreased over. We evaluated a causal relationship between influenza vaccine and anaphylaxis event by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay. Delayed-onset anaphylaxis after influenza vaccination can occur in children without predisposing allergic diseases. In addition, the results suggested that formulation and production system of influenza vaccines could affect the probability of severe allergic reaction to vaccines.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6997288/

    The case of your family of more than one child being affected in exactly the same way is very, very unusual and might be of great interest to medical researchers. Again, talk to your primary physician.

  192. @zacie

    “COVID-conservatives … now they have neither liberty nor safety”

    According to skull-head Joe the vaccinated need to be protected from the unvaccinated. I thought Fauci’s magic serum was the protectant. But go ahead and scapegoat millions of Americans, skull-head. Alex Berenson made the best point regarding the vaccines: they are essentially therapeutics with nasty and sometimes dangerous side-effects. They are not vaccines.

  193. Jack D says:
    @J.Ross

    I don’t know the resolution to this but making it inpossible to work probably doesn’t help.

    Obviously Biden does not intend for this to cause massive layoffs (nor is this really a likely even if unintended consequence such as the immediate collapse of the Afghan government). What he is hoping for is that the THREAT of firing will cause a lot of people to get the vaccine.

    Meanwhile for the holdouts this process will wind its way thru the work disciplinary system, the courts, etc. They already said it was not IMMEDIATE firing. First you get a warning, then blah, blah, blah, etc. By the time that it actually gets to the point where people are about to lose their jobs, they will say that the wave has subsided and they are dismissing the termination procedures against anyone who did not comply. Maybe they will lose later on in court and anyone who was fired gets reinstated with back pay (in other words a long paid vacation courtesy of the taxpayers). But meanwhile, X millions of people will have been vaccinated as a result of the threat, so it’s all good.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Johann Ricke
  194. @Jack D

    Biden’s proposal left out transportation. What he should have required was no getting on a plane, train or bus unless you are vaccinated. Again, no compulsion involved, you just can’t get on the plane.

    Very difficult to enforce from a bureaucratic point of view. The next thing is that the US government would be requiring my handwritten Ecuador certificate of vaccination to be notarized and officially translated into English. I’m not thinking about myself, but the whole process would (continue to) have a crippling effect on international travel.

    As it is right now, you have to have a negative PCR test within three days of travel to be allowed to board a plane to the US from overseas. This can be verified by airline staff in the country where the test is carried out.

    Internally within the US, I guess you could have credit card-type vaccination certificates which can be verified by swiping through machines that could be installed on trains and buses, but then what about taxis and Ubers?

    Common sense infection control measures like wearing masks, social distancing and handwashing are probably more cost effective, and don’t forget that there are some countries that are barely affected, such as New Zealand, Taiwan, and South Korea, and then there is China with its massive population that seems to be doing pretty well. What can we learn from them?

    • Replies: @Catdog
  195. Catdog says:
    @Anonymous

    >Some of the right wing mindlessness is silly though. Like they conflate ivermectin, vaccines, and lab leak, mask use. When they are separate physical topics.
    They are separate topics. But people on the right have consistent opinions on those topics because it has become the smart move to consistenly believe the opposite of whatever the establishment tells you.

  196. Catdog says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    The Amish aren’t doing any of that crap, have less than a 14% vax rate and yet they’re totally fine. Let’s be like the Amish.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  197. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    “They can’t kill us, we’re their workers.” I don’t know, that’s not the word they use to describe us.

    Wait, so all of this remains in place, and can be resurrected whenever they want, say, in time to throw the nect election. That is a worst possible outcome.

  198. J.Ross says:

    Whites are somewhat over-vaccinated as a proportion of population and blacks and hispanics are each about 50% under. Possible iteration of the iStevey idea that a lot of policy talk is hamstrung by needing to talk about blacks but not being allowed to (ie, punishing white long gun owners because of black pistol owners). The problem with this idea is that the policies are real and effectively punish only the group dumb enough to comply.

  199. Biden’s latest rant made him sound like a parody of a tyrannical king. It does not help that he is planning an utterly unconstitutional imposition of his will on a very sizable minority. During yesterday’s public scolding, I noticed repeated uses of the royal we and suggestions of an iron fist hiding within a velvet glove, e.g., “our patience is wearing thin”. From a purely PR perspective, these are horrendous faux pas. They will not be reassuring to the declining minority who still support Biden and they will enrage and strengthen the resolve of those who oppose him.

    At this point, I take it as a given that all of Biden’s public appearances – and in all likelihood all his administration’s policies and activities – are carefully crafted by a small and highly capable cabal of operatives working behind the scenes. Biden’s repeated, public, off-script announcements that he has been told to say and do or not say and not do certain things, as well as his inability to properly articulate the scripts he is reading from all suggest this.

    This leads me to the conclusion that this past Wednesday’s speech was actually not an inept production but one that is precisely intended to inflame anti-Biden sentiments at a point when his “presidency” has already been weakened by a series of disastrous outcomes, e.g. the debacle of the USA’s long overdue exit from Afghanistan, the obvious failures of the current mass vaccination programs, impossible to ignore and frightening increases in inflation, etc.

    I suspect that this is the first, major public step in the ruling class’s strategy to remove Biden from office. I will not be surprised if he’s gone before the end of the year or, at latest, the spring of next year.

    At this early point in his pretend presidency, I think it’s worth noting that during the past eight months, the public perception and official narrative has changed dramatically from “Joseph Biden will do just fine as President” to “Joseph Biden is a senile incompetent who has to go.”

    This still leaves the problem of Kamala Harris – and if the legal succession is followed, Nancy Pelosi – to be dealt with. But I’d be willing to bet that plans are already afoot for handling that, perhaps a series of tragic, fatal ”accidents”.

    • Agree: Sick 'n Tired
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  200. D. K. says:

    • Thanks: BB753
    • Replies: @Jack D
  201. Forbes says:
    @I. Racist

    With only (according to CDC) 6% of attributed deaths due to C-19–all others having comorbidities proving fatal–I await the federal mandates for improved health, e.g., weight loss, diet/nutrition, physical fitness, et al.

    The 1976 national Swine Flu inoculation program was suspended after two dozen deaths–how many have died from this jab?? 10,000? 15,000? More?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  202. By now, anyone who is worried about getting COVID will have gotten the vaccine already and/or will wear a mask, ending the risk to themselves. So it is outrageous to mandate a vaccine. If kids were at risk of serious COVID complications a mandate might make sense but not

  203. Jack D says:
    @D. K.

    You’re looking at cases, not deaths. Even though there are more cases, there are far fewer deaths presumably due to the vaccine.

  204. @El Dato

    Yes, I do wonder about that. Immunity seems to peak a month after the second dose. I wonder what someone with deep expertise would say about getting purposefully infected at that point and thereby gaining more complete immunity. I doubt it’ll ever be reccomended, but it makes some sense to me. Perhaps also aim to get infected with the strain the vaccine was designed for?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  205. @Jack D

    Obviously Biden does not intend for this to cause massive layoffs (nor is this really a likely even if unintended consequence such as the immediate collapse of the Afghan government).

    Biden is like a retarded child playing with matches, except he’s senile, to boot. The economy is a finely-tuned instrument. The kind of thing he’s thrown out has real potential to cause an Afghanistan-like series of cascading disasters. An anonymous poster – who, like me, is pro-vax, but on a strictly voluntary basis – put it better than I could:

    At one time in my career I managed staffing for call centers that were taking more than 100,000 calls per day. We staffed to meet some basic service levels.

    If we lost 10% of our staff, our system would be immediately overloaded, delay times would move from a couple of minutes to hours, and our ability to maintain staff would be compromised. Getting replacements for those people would take months.

    Think about everything the government touches through direct hires or through contractors. If they lose 10% of their staff, the efficiency of those offices, companies, and manufacturing will shut down lines, increase unemployment, and send the country into a significant recession.

    Remember that every dollar the government spends is multiplied in the economy.

    Biden thinks this is going to make him look tough. It could potentially lead to an economic disaster.

    • Replies: @HA
  206. Jack D says:
    @Forbes

    This dishonesty is getting so old. Only 6% having no comorbidities doesn’t mean that the others didn’t die of covid. Comorbidities such as obesity, diabetes, asthma, etc. take decades to kill you but for the unvaccinated with these comorbidities, Covid can take you out of this world in a matter of days. There are, unfortunately, millions and millions of Americans with comorbidities. Certainly it would be good to promote weight loss, etc. but these are long term problems. You can be vaccinated in 5 minutes.

    how many have died from this jab?? 10,000? 15,000?

    This is beyond dishonest. You’re just making shit up. Of course many people have died not longer AFTER getting the vaccine. The vaccine doesn’t make you immortal and many who have been vaccinated were sick and elderly to begin with. The FDA encourages physicians to report such deaths so that they can look for patterns. But in terms of people whose death can actually attributed to the vaccine after investigation, no more than a handful. No large scale patterns of death have emerged or they would have pulled the vaccines.

    • Troll: The Griffins
    • Replies: @BB753
  207. What is still not being addressed, is the very real long term affects of the vaccines upon an individual’s immune system. There have been reports of stroke, blood clots, heart problems, etc that are at least in part directly due to the vaccines. Why isn’t Biden addressing these legitimate long term concerns? Is every person who chooses to get vaccinated doomed to come down with long term health affects directly tied to the vaccines? Obviously not. But if even 10-15% of those vaccinated do develop long term health problems that are directly or at least in part due to the vaccines, then one has to ask how safe are the vaccines on the individual’s long term health?

    The vaccines unfortunately are still too new for the data to determine the direct impact on an individual’s health. These are legitimate concerns and rather than automatically dismissing them as crackpottery, they should be carefully considered and their validity determined. Especially when asking or strongly persuading US citizens to get vaccinated (vaccines are less than a year on the market and were fairly rushed out, vs the Polio vaccine which was a few decades of research in the making).

  208. Things are getting tense. I made one little joke about Biden’s vaccine mandate to a friend today and he acted as if I’d just shouted “Sieg heil!” (He’s been vaccinated; I’ve been vaccinated; but the topic is totally verboten.) Another friend – the least politically correct person I know – chastised me as well, saying that current events are now completely off-limits.

    Biden is focusing on infrastructure … that’s good, because I’m burning down every bridge in sight.

  209. HA says:
    @Jack D

    “You’re looking at cases, not deaths.”

    He’s also conveniently forgetting about the relatively lax lockdowns this time around. This is what Scotland had to deal with about a year ago:

    “all premises may only open indoors between 6 am and 6 pm….hospitality settings: maximum of 6 people from 2 households…” working from home is expected of all those who can…

    It’s a pretty long list. Vaccines mean sharply reduced COVID deaths and ICU visits despite having “leakier” lockdowns this time around.

    But hey, if people would rather go back to the lockdowns of 2020 to make for a fairer apples-to-apples comparison regarding how much supposedly worse we are now that we have vaccines, I’m sure there are politicians who will be happy to oblige them.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  210. Jack D says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    It’s never a good idea to intentionally infect yourself – although the vaccine is protective, there are too many risks. Although your risk is greatly reduced, in some small % of cases, people with breakthru infections have even died.

    What does make sense is to get booster shots. Israel is now giving booster 5 months after your 2nd shot to everyone over 30.

    A research team using data from Maccabi Healthcare Services in Tel Aviv found that the rate of infection dropped 48 to 68 percent within a week to 13 days after the third shot of the Pfizer vaccine. In addition, the study found the infection rate dropped even further—70 to 84 percent—two weeks to 20 days after the additional dose,

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/third-shot-provides-significant-boost-covid-19-immunity-180978611/

    I realize this will drive anti-vaxxers even more nuts. OMG, shots every 5 months! The world will end!

    You’ll be glad to know that the WHO agrees with you – they want to save your booster shot for people in the 3rd world. I’m with Israel on this one. I love the people of the 3rd world (kumbaya!) but not enough to die for them.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @mulga mumblebrain
  211. Rob says:
    @Wade Hampton

    I really wish that for their own sakes all the antivaxers, vaccine skeptics, and people who want to do their own research (on Twitter) would get admittedly imperfect vaccines.

    Despite, and I am ashamed of this, but I loled.

    • Replies: @Wade Hampton
  212. Won’t all these big, screaming pro and college football crowds just three days after The Biden Ultimatum create some cognitive dissonance? Are we in such dire existential peril or aren’t we?

  213. @Catdog

    The Amish stay outdoors all day in the sunshine, do physical labor, and all of them under 50 have medically normal BMIs.

    How many regular American adults can say the same? 15-20 %?

    I wouldn’t assume they will fare as well against COVID, especially once Delta inevitably spreads across the country.

    Even being moderately overweight and sedentary seems pretty bad for you. I know of 2 moderately overweight men in their 30s and 40s who recently died of COVID.

    Everyone needs to get up, get moving, and go outside. And also they need to stop fooling themselves that BMI is inaccurate, it’s only somewhat inaccurate for professional athletes.

  214. By-tor says:
    @ThreeCranes

    The PCR test is a forensics test not a medical test. The inventor, Dr. Cary Mullis, shared the 1993 Nobel Prize for science- not medicine- for inventing it. The CDC is discontinuing its use for ‘Covid testing’ on DEC 31, 2021. I presume they hope their use of the test to promote their Covid ruse will have an overwhelming majority of believers by then.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-cdc-is-withdrawing-its-original-pcr-test-for-covid-here-s-why-that-s-a-good-thing/ar-AAN9RCN

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  215. HA says:
    @J.Ross

    “UK Telegraph admits “vaccine” worse than covid for teenagers, who tend not to be 85 years old.”

    This looks like another replay of that anti-vaxx chestnut about how kids who got the flu vaccine are 3 times more likely than the rest to wind up in the hospital.

    The study that claimed this — which is still floating around — causing researchers to scratch their heads for about 5 years before a much larger study confirmed what the researchers had suspected: the small portion of kids who get a flu vaccine tend to be kids with asthma and other underlying conditions — because their doctors insisted that they get it — and even though they’re still more likely to go to the hospital than an average kid after getting jabbed, they’re still less likely to die from the flu.

    The anti-vaxx loon who tried to feed me this claim about how flu shots make kids more likely to go the hospital conveniently forgot to mention the larger study that overruled it. Typical.

    I suspect that’s what is happening here. The teens lining up for COVID vaccinations are the ones who are more likely to have asthma, diabetes, or some other comorbidity that makes them especially susceptible to COVID (and the numerous ways it messes with the heart and blood) whereas the ones hit by COVID are more average.

    If my hunch is off, and it is indeed true that vaccines do more harm than COVID for that or any other cohort, then by all means, change the rules and don’t give that group the vaccine. But do it righyt. Simply ascribing every single post-vaccine death to Pfizer or Moderna — which is what the truthers are doing — makes as much sense as tagging the motorcycle deaths as COVID victims, and at least in the case of the latter, we have the excess death study to show that errors like that aren’t nearly as big as the truthers would have us believe.

    • Agree: Jack D
    • Thanks: Inquiring Mind
    • Replies: @J.Ross
  216. @Jus' Sayin'...

    I don’t think Biden is using the Royal We.

    I think he is just using it as in We the American people.

    Throughout his career as a politician Biden has always been prone to waffling, being extremely long-winded, and going off the point. His advisors are just trying to remind him that now he is president, the whole world is listening to him.

    Remember this is the Biden who copied word for word a famous speech by a British politician. The speech was famous in political circles, because after Neil Kinnock’s speech, he immediately jumped up 14% in the polls within a few days after talking about how working-class people can only advance in life if they are given a good public education from a young age.

    So Biden and his advisors incredibly foolishly decided to copy the speech word for word on the assumption that hardly any politically informed person or journalist was listening to Biden anyway, and nobody would notice. Also this was before YouTube.

    Now they are just trying to remind him that people are actually listening and that he needs to keep his message clear and unambiguous.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  217. NOTA says:
    @I. Racist

    Depends on whether youre a healthy 30 year old or a diabetic 70 year old.

    • Replies: @BB753
  218. Thomas says:
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    It’s not my loss. I want nothing to do with kooks who are “oppressed” by having to take a vaccine that has side effects that reach seriousness on a level two or three orders of magnitude less than the thing it’s intended to protect against. Getting distracted by crap like this is why American conservatism will be gone in a decade.

  219. Thomas says:
    @Jack D

    However, what IS a live issue is the question of what powers does the executive branch have in the absence of a statute that was passed by Congress? Or even a Federal regulation that was duly promulgated after a comment period, etc. The idea that because there is some kind of self declared “crisis” or “emergency” that the President and the CDC can just rule by decree (e.g. the eviction moratorium) is (rightly) not one that warms the heart of the Justices. That way lies dictatorship.

    We’re somewhere in Justice Jackson’s “zone of twilight” from the Steel Seizure Case between the President and Congress in the absence of express authority. Article II of the Constitution is much less explicit about the extent and limitation of Presidential authority than Article I, Section 8 is about Congress’.

    If you accept the possibility that COVID could’ve been a potential bioweapon that got out of control, the President’s authority would be pretty damn broad.

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
  220. @Hapalong Cassidy

    At this point, it’s almost as if the people handling Biden simply don’t care anymore.

    I assume it’s to distract from other disasters, Afghanistan the big thing most recently, but also what’s likely to not be “transitory” Bideninflation that’s really starting to bite, various pandemic “benefits” running out or being nullified, some people might be blaming him for the Delta wave etc. This could unify a fair fraction of the Democratic base in hate against the Right, although I’m not sure about the Blacks and Hispanics who’ve been avoiding getting vaxxed in higher fractions than other populations.

    But all the COVID actions have a whiff of desperation, the bogus early approval of Pfizer/BioNTech, getting ahead of THE SCIENCE!!! for third dose booster shots, and now this.

  221. @Jack D

    assuming he agrees that their reaction to the flu shot is, in his professional opinion, a medically sufficient reason to avoid the Covid vaccine (it probably isn’t) he will write you an exemption note. If he doesn’t think this, then your fear is just that – irrational fear of the unknown, not a true medical reason to avoid the vaccine.

    Irrational? Because “doctors” are infallible…

    Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  222. @Spud Boy

    While I’m in camp that agrees this is government over-reach, it seems everyone is ignoring this line:

    “…or test for the virus weekly,”

    so, you really don’t have to get vaccinated.

    That’s not exactly cheap, and requires at minimum the cooperation of the company in question. Just tracking this for all their employees will be expensive.

  223. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    It’s not that the world will end, it’s that everybody else finally understood what was happening.

  224. BB753 says:
    @Jack D

    “No large scale patterns of death have emerged or they would have pulled the vaccines.”

    Are you serious?

  225. J.Ross says:
    @HA

    Well, you babbled there for a minute, but you came back to a point of agreement: were someone to tell an 85 year old that the “vaccine” causes infertility, and the idea was granted, the 85 year old would then point out that he’s 85 years old. But included with today’s model, they are pushing for the “vaccination” of five year olds.

    • Replies: @HA
  226. vinteuil says:
    @Jack D

    You just lose your job so you can’t infect your coworkers.

    So those who have doubts about the vaccine should lose their jobs so they can’t infect their vaccinated coworkers?

    What’s up with you? Why can’t you see the obvious absurdity of your position?

    To whatever extent the vaccines work, the unvaccinated only endanger one another.

    Which is to say, not very much at all, unless they’re very old or very fat.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  227. BB753 says:
    @NOTA

    You can’t build a society around protecting the elderly while endangering the health and livelihood of young people. Unless you want to destroy society, which seems to be the goal. “Build back better”. Destroy then rebuild. It’s the old alchemical luciferian motto :”Solve et coagula”.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33682878

    • Replies: @NOTA
  228. @Jack D

    Likewise, your freedom to cough virus particles blah blah blah…

    Vaccinated people are spreading the virus and driving the numbers higher.

    Vaccinated people are a danger to themselves and others.

    If the vaccine worked, you would have no fear of catching the coof from us free range people.

    Please stop spreading disease with your poison needles.

  229. J.Ross says:
    @HA

    This is the pseudomedical equivalent of “oh but we can drone strike you.” Please do so, I beg you. Please domestically drone strike everyone you think is a wrecker and close every single business that might involve respiration. Please come house to house for firearm ownership at the same time that you effectively outlawed profit. After all, think of the studies and the experts.

  230. @The Anti-Gnostic

    If this was in fact a “leaky” vaccine, it would look like the current situation: more potent variants attacking younger, healthier people.

    If you’re thinking about a Marek’s disease scenario, it would if you add the that the younger, healthier people are also unvaccinated, which indeed they are overwhelmingly not to the extent they are ending up in hospitals and morgues disproportionately compared to the more elderly who got their vaccines. Surprising how the age stratification of both those endpoints completely contradicts everything you’re claiming in this comment.

    But not there’s only one variant “of concern” that really matters now in the US and many other places, Delta, which was first observed in India in October 2020, there’s an infinitesimal chance it was the result of a vaccine clinical trial vs. natural immunity, and see my final reply to your final point.

    “95% effectiveness!” we were told, whatever that means. Now it’s down to 60% effectiveness and you won’t get as sick.

    Here you’re just trolling, that was well and clearly defined for the mRNA vaccines, avoiding symptomatic disease that was subsequently confirmed by RT-PCR. That was a secondary endpoint for Janssen, but was at (of course) a lower efficacy percentage about what they achieved for their primary endpoint of “avoiding moderate to severe disease.”

    And it wears off after 5 months so see you again soon. (BTW, whatever you think about the vaccine, a majority of the population is simply not going to adhere to a rigorous every-5-months-for-life schedule).

    That’s certainly not what the worse case evidence is suggesting about Pfizer/BioNTech, which may not hold true for Moderna and Janssen, and we don’t know if a third dose, the booster change things as it does for some childhood vaccines. “5-months-for-life” is fear porn just like the media’s recent focus on the Mu variant of interest, and that’s before we even factor we “have just begun to fight,” here you’re like the anti-vaxxers who liked to regale us with stories of early unsuccessful vaccines that killed the test animals as if scientists have no agency. And/or perhaps your trying to justify not getting vaxxed.

    And people could be confounding lower over time vaccine efficacy with first generation vaccines target just not doing as well against Delta with its immune escape mutations, they were after all aimed at classic Wuhan. Or they could just be wrong; this is a to be determined question.

    How “effective” is a vaccine that doesn’t prevent infections, doesn’t stop transmittal, and you can still end up dead or in the hospital, and wears off after 5 months? Why wouldn’t it just push variation?

    How effective is your lying? And for your last point, natural immunity will of course also push variation, we don’t get any choice about that happening sooner or later. And note that while natural immunity against classic Wuhan/Alpha is better than vaccine immunity, people with it still get breakthrough infections and sometimes bad outcomes.

    • Thanks: Corvinus
    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  231. BB753 says:
    @Jack D

    “Presumably” is key here. The virus has been losing its lethality since March 2020.

  232. @Jonathan Mason

    I suppose that yours is one possible interpretation of events. However, the increasingly bizarre nature of Biden’s mental lapses suggest that he is sinking rapidly into advanced senile dementia.

    One of the latest instances occurred during a ceremony intended to honor the American servicemen and servicewomen who were killed as a result of Biden’s catastrophic blunders extricating the USA from Afghanistan. As each coffin was escorted from the plane that returned these victims to American soil, Biden openly and in front of many witnesses and multiple videocameras fidgeted and checked his wristwatch. This kind of infantile, inappropriate behavior is typical of a person suffering from a rapidly advancing case of dementia.

    I don’t think Biden is using the Royal We.
    I think he is just using it as in We the American people.

    That’s a major piece of presumption from a man who failed to get the support of 47% of the population and 17% of the counties in this country in the 2020 election and whose support has been eroding steadily ever since. Furthermore, Biden’s supposed 2020 electoral victory seems to have involved a great deal of coordinated electoral fraud.

  233. Now, with more than 208 million Americans having at least one dose of the vaccines, the U.S. is seeing about 300% more new COVID-19 infections a day, about two-and-a-half times more hospitalizations, and nearly twice the number of deaths compared to the same time last year.

    More vaccinated people = more infectious people = more infections per day.

    It really is that simple.

    Vaccinated people are being irresponsible with their health.
    Vaccinated people are spreading disease.

    This upcoming flu coof season is going to be uh-mazing.

  234. Roger says:

    Maybe now people will stop calling Donald Trump an authoritarian.

  235. Rob says:
    @Rooster111

    Way to move those goalposts!

    Good effort!

    • Replies: @Rooster111
  236. @That Would Be Telling

    Your magic bug juice isn’t doing shit. More potent variants are popping up all over the place, the most vaccinated countries are the ones with the highest numbers of new cases, and all the government can do is double down on everything that hasn’t worked to date.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  237. @By-tor

    Another blatant liar who includes a link and expects us not to click on it and find its contents completely contradicts what he’s saying. Except for your partly incorrect detail about the PCR Nobel, it was for Chemistry, there is no Nobel for “Science” but it’s also been noted the Chemistry Nobel has mostly become one for medicine as well, everything you say is a lie. PCR is a fantastically powerful tool for doubling DNA every cycle, which can be used for many purposes. As for the CDC and their and America’s very first RT-PCR test, as the link explains the CDC wants you to do combined tests for COVID and the flu. And even supply their own that does both for which the EUA will continue after the end of the year.

    Meanwhile, something has killed what’s approaching or at a million Americans in excess of previous years, and the same thing has happened elsewhere good records are kept, and of course thee are sufficient extra vulnerable people. It sure looks like the results of a deadly pandemic; if not that, what’s your explanation??

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @BB753
  238. JR Ewing says:
    @Jack D

    I recognize this is splitting hairs in today’s environment of outsourced legislation, but it’s not a “federal” power to regulate interstate commerce, it’s a power of congress.

  239. @Jack D

    one risk (covid) is large and the other (myocarditis) is rare

    No, both risks are very small – and myocarditis is not the only risk for people who volunteer to participate in the ongoing global experiment.

    Pfizer’s trial (the one they deliberately unblinded after Phase II, so that they could not possibly complete Phase III – the safety component) showed that the risk of symptomatic COVD19 in the placebo leg was 0.84% (176/13800), whereas the risk of symptomatic COVID19 in a active leg was 0.04% (4/13830). So the ‘95% efficacy’ is an odds-ratio 9a usual) where the starting odds were fuck-all.

    That’s ignoring the fact that there were ~1500 people in each leg who got symptoms that were diagnosed as COVID-19 but did not test positive using PCR.

    And it’s despite the fact that Pfizer decided not to count anybody who contracted PCR-validated symptoms if they arose within 14 days of the second shot. There were 407 of them in the active leg of the trial, and about 100 in the placebo leg.

    Read the list of exclusions in Pfizer’s trial design: they excluded anyone who had any possible comorbidity. So the age-agnostic risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 for metabolically-healthy unjabbed people is under 1%.

    This is reinforced by the pathetically low ‘hit rate’ in Australia: even in our winter, the rate of positive tests among people who get tested (mostly voluntarily) is roughly 1% – so 99% of people who think they might have it, are simply being hypochondriacal because they got a snotty nose or a cough.

    There might be a gigantic reservoir of asymps – odd to have a disease when you have no symptoms, but whatever. If we routinely tested everyone with symptoms for influenza (and put ‘influenza’ as COD for anyone who died with a positive swab), then pandemic influenza would be an annual event.

    Still, an asymp/presume/paucisymp reservoir wouldn’t surprise me given that this pathogen is so pissweak that its preferred victim is over 80 and has chronic long-term metabolic dysfunction. Most healthy people who are infected, experience such low—level symptoms that they don’t know they’ve had it.

    I have a natural tendency to schadenfreude, even though I actually try to suppress it – but I am allowing myself to bask in it given that there has been a ‘sudden inexplicable surge’ in nations with high participation rates in the current mindless ‘jab’ hysteria.

    Pfizer’s trial is starting to really be picked apart (by the BMJ, particularly) and calls for Pfizer to make all their data available are starting to reach a crescendo. When that happens there’ll be another Vioxx Moment, where the world learns that there is no depth to which these fuckers will not stoop in order to make more money.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
  240. Bill P says:
    @Jack D

    There is an old saw that my freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins. Likewise, your freedom to cough virus particles up ends where my lungs begin.

    False equivalency. One is intentional and the other is not.

    Anyway, a lot of people seem to have the idea that they can avoid this virus forever, whether through vaccines or social engineering. I don’t think so.

    If you’re susceptible, it’s going to get to you eventually. That’s why I got vaccinated — it gives me better odds. But whether or not others get vaccinated makes no difference in the long run, because this virus is here to stay and I’m going to be exposed anyway (chances are very good that I already have been).

    So the logic of mandatory vaccination is flawed. There is no rational basis for forcing others to take the vaccine, unless you believe that they, like children, should not be allowed to make their own choices about their health.

  241. JR Ewing says:
    @Jack D

    That Would Be Shilling does this all the time. Pot meet kettle.

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  242. BB753 says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    “It sure looks like the results of a deadly pandemic; if not that, what’s your explanation??”

    A new virus hitting an aging population. If we had a younger population like in Africa, we wouldn’t have realized there was a new virus out there.

  243. JR Ewing says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Agreed. If you are sick enough to be spitting out infectious snot, you should be at home anyway. And besides, my mom taught me a long time ago not to sneeze in other people’s face.

  244. @Thomas

    This isn’t just a vaccine mandate. This is a national mandate ordered by a dictator. I challenge you to cite a case where that was legal.

  245. D. K. says:
    @Jack D

    Jack, the mandatory masks and mass vaccinations, like the lockdowns and social distancing, were supposed to stop the transmission of the virus. The have failed to do so– surprisingly, in the case of mass vaccinations, but unsurprisingly, in the case of masks.

    • Thanks: JMcG
  246. @mulga mumblebrain

    We have no way of knowing what “the science” and “the facts” say. Epistemology.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  247. @Thomas

    Congress has had a year-and-a-half to act. Your claim that we should accede to dictatorship is stupid and evil.

  248. AF says:
    @SimpleSong

    The argument that this is just one more in a long line of abuses is largely true but misses the point. There is a big picture here which you are not seeing. A year ago Bill Gates let slip that this virus was part of a broader strategy to create vaccine passports, and if you follow the WEF and their allies you see that the vaccine passports aka ID2020 are simply a step to the Known Traveler program which is a worldwide invasion of privacy with all sorts of Orwellian implications. Simply put, Biden is speaking for his handlers who are impatient at the rate of vaccination, because a high vaccination rate is necessary to get a critical mass of people on board with ID2020 as early adopters and then in less than 5 years Known Traveler will roll out and from that point forward it will become impossible to rebel or be a dissident against the handful of families who pull the strings for so many nations. We will live in a true, worldwide totalitarian state where human behavior is completely monitored by AI and rebellion is totally quashed.
    So in other words, it is certainly true that this is another abuse, but is is a very important abuse to fight and derail so that Americans can eventually wake up enough from a virus phobia to derail this agenda.

  249. Many of us wonder why Sailer has joined “the Covidians”. Covidians are people who actually believe the lies told them about Covid by the FedGov and parroted by the mainstream media.

    Sailer is generally so sensible about so many things, particularly racial differences and immigration. According to The Zman, the human biodiversity community which includes Sailer are mostly Covidians.

    My theory is the fact that Sailer and the HBD community have joined the Covidians is just another demonstration of the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect. The HBD community actually know a lot about racial differences and understand how they play out in the real world, so when they are told lies by the FedGov/MSM complex like “diversity is our strength” and “immigration from garbage countries is a large net benefit”, they know that they are being lied to.

    But they are mostly ignorant about virology and immunology, so when they are told lies about Covid by the FedGov they have no grounding in the underlying facts so they naively believe them.

    I assume that anything reported to me by the FedGov/media complex is a lie, until I can confirm it by further research. The FedGov may not always lie, but that’s the way the smart money bets.

  250. HA says:
    @Johann Ricke

    “If we lost 10% of our staff, our system would be immediately overloaded, delay times would move from a couple of minutes to hours, and our ability to maintain staff would be compromised.”

    Yes, let’s not do anything that might limit the number of people working for the government. Because our system would be immediately overloaded and whatnot. The entire supply chain would collapse!

    This is right up there with alt-righters telling us “Let’s all be more like Sweden. Or maybe Brazil.”

    (And let’s also stipulate that this kind of thinking definitely does not apply to our emergency medical care system and ICU capacity — if they’re overloaded 10% or so, really, what’s the worst that could happen?)

    • Replies: @HA
  251. @Rob

    Hi Rob. Glad you laughed. That was the point.

    I have read a lot about the “vaccine”. It’s not a vaccine. It’s neither safe nor effective. Every other real vaccine has gone through decades of testing before being released to the public. The Covid “vaccine” was released after 6 months. This is malpractice.

    I have a lot of painful real world experience with the “vaccine”. A close family member and friend got the “vaccine” and immediately developed idiopathic heart problems. He is mid-50s, ridiculously good physical shape, no prior history of heart problems. Roughly \$100,000 of tests later and the medicos still have no idea what is going on. My relative is ready to die. He has given up. All directly as a result of the “vaccine”.

    My next door neighbor, late 50s, perfect physical health, got the vaccine and shortly thereafter developed a immune system disease (similar to Guillane-Barre) that has continued for months. He has recovered somewhat, but his wife says he will never be the same.

    Given that your chances of dying due to Covid are vanishingly small (unless you are over 70, obese or are immune compromised), please do not get the “vaccine”.

    And if you have gotten the “vaccine”, good luck. And since you think you have some sort of immunity, you should not care whether or not I get “vaccinated”.

    As my wife likes to tell me, “you do you.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  252. This government policy of quarterly boosters seems inspired by the flu shots, promoted by those large pharmacy chains, during the past 10(?) fall/winters.

    In the years leading up to 2020, I remember reading stories about how political insiders were warning about the widespread health dangers posed by new (“mutated?”) viruses. Government bureaucrats were obviously listening to them since the Covid defense policies, as they’ve been imposed, seem like they’ve come right out of some mindless, bureaucratic policy document that had been crafted during those same years, but unfortunately, was not left on the shelf to gather dust.

  253. @Ben tillman

    We have to live in this world, and do our best, based on nous and observation and experience. Heuristics.

  254. @Jack D

    Please, Jack-have as many shots of experimental gene therapies as your dead heart desires. The more the merrier.

  255. @Rob

    The whole issue is the high cycle threshold at which they’re running the tests, because they generate so many false positives.

    You seem to be pretty knowledgeable on the subject, what cycle threshold do you believe they should be running the tests at?

    • Replies: @Rob
  256. @Jack D

    Israel had 52% more deaths in August 2021 than August 2020

    The Us has had 40% more Covid deaths from August 9 – Sept 9 this year than in the same time period of 2020.

    Even The chart you posted shows more deaths from week 24-36 in 2021 than 2020, so we have no reduction of deaths when we compare the August and September of 2020 with 2021. The vaccines have failed.. we have more deaths and hospitalizations in September of 2021 than 2020. Which is why the vaccinated are fearful and seeking to mandate vaccines for everyone, despite any evidence this will stop the spread.

  257. HA says:
    @HA

    In hindsight, I should have stipulated that if someone is willing apply that overload-is-bad principle consistently — and if you’re pro-vaxx, that presumably includes you — then I’d be much more willing to take the argument seriously given that I myself DO worry if ICU beds and capacity is consistently overloaded by 10%, and therefore should be willing to admit that a 10% shortfall could likewise be deeply problematic. Fair is fair and I should have been clearer about that.

    I;m still skepical that it would come to that, honestly, because it would mean that all of the 10% or so who have come out as anti-vaxx and/or are threatening to walk off are in the difficult-to-replace category, which I doubt. But that’s a hunch borne of seeing too many I’m-a-lion-not-a-sheep declarations from people whose profile pics appear to be of someone close to retiring anyway, and to the extent that’s a skewed perspective, I’m willing to give the benefit of any lingering doubt to those more knowledgable about that kind of thing. (Also, it kind of reminded me of all those dire predictions that the world order would collapse if we pulled out of Afghanistan, which I don’t really buy either.) I guess we’ll see.

  258. Jack D says:
    @vinteuil

    Some people really can’t be vaccinated because they have actual medical conditions or they are too young.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  259. What????? Psychologically left and right wing authoritarians share key traits, naaa that can’t be true, but then again I’m unaware of top down national level, vaccine mandates in Russia.

    https://phys.org/news/2021-09-left-wing-authoritarians-key-psychological-traits.html

  260. @Yancey Ward

    Every unvaccinated business owner & worker should stop paying any kind of taxes whatsoever. See how quickly this comes to an end when those much needed productive dollars stop flowing in. The govt doesn’t have room/infrastructure to lock them all up, and if they did, the collapse of every necessary utility, trade, supply line would disappear so fast, it would implode the nation.

  261. @Corvinus

    It’s OK, Coronavirus. If you want to wear your face nappy that’s fine.

  262. Members of congress and their staff are exempt from the Biden vaccine mandate. All 800,000 US postal service employees are also exempt.

    The University of California study found Teenagers are 6 times more likely to suffer from heart problems caused by the vaccines than to be hospitalized with COVID. https://summit.news/2021/09/10/study-finds-teenage-boys-6-times-more-likely-to-suffer-heart-problems-from-vaccine-than-be-hospitalized-by-covid/

    Meanwhile California is mandating 12 year-olds to get vaccinated to attend schools..

    • Replies: @Travis
  263. @The Anti-Gnostic

    I travel for work and fly all over the country, the mask requirements are beyond any type of logic or common sense. I have to wear a shitty paper mask while at the airport. I have a beard so it doesn’t form any type of seal around my mouth or nose. I’m told to social distance at the airport, but can remove my mask while eating or drinking at the airport bar/restaurant. Once I get on the plane and am sitting by 9 people in a 6’x6′ area (not including the people on the other side of the aisle), I can only remove my mask if I am eating or drinking something, but otherwise have to keep my mask covering my nose and mouth on a sealed tube, breathing recycled air. So as long as I keep slowly eating from a bag of pretzels and sipping from a large bottle of water for 2 hours, I don’t need to wear a mask/am not at risk, but as soon as I stop doing those things, I have to cover up to prevent the spread of the Rona. If I point out any of this to the flight crew, I will be arrested when the plane lands and put on a no fly list.

    It is lack of common sense combined with fear and mental retardation at it’s finest.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  264. @S. Anonyia

    They have identified some genetic contributions to COVID, but none of them have a large effect size, as in complete protection.

  265. @Anon

    In the meantime, you can use a netty pot if you think you were around someone sick. Povidone-iodine mouthwash and gargle is also supposed to help.

    It’s an interesting point about Japan–many modern buildings like apartment complexes have bad ventilation. We can open our balcony doors and there is almost no air movement. If you open the main door across at the same time, a huge draft is suddenly created, but there is no screen door with the main door, so mosquitos come in and the entrance is not secure. My dojo is similar–one wall with windows that open and one with windows that don’t.

    In my university, you can set up a good draft by opening windows in rooms on both sides of the hallway, but the students complain.

    If you work in a typical Japanese open office, could you get a hepa filter? In theory if you arranged it to blow on you, the air around you would be at least partly be filtered.

  266. @Jack D

    Someone has to have the last word. If not them then who?

    Before the era of everything-is-federal, each state mostly had its own last word. If you didn’t like the last word in your state, you could go to a different one. That was something of a de facto free market of law. And the laws therefore had to accommodate the people. The current One Ring To Rule Them All era is legal monopolism, where the people must accommodate the law, and those who control the law know it. And like all monopolies, it breeds corruption and tyranny. Not that I expect my objection to change anything.

    the Supreme Court (believe it or not) takes the principle of stare decisis very seriously and does not overrule existing precedent lightly

    Wellll, it depends whose stare decisis we’re talking about. Millennia of stare decisis that same-sex marriage is not a real thing got thrown out in one moment in Obergefell despite the novelty never commanding a majority in any legislature. On the other hand, the innovative “right” to murder a child before birth became stare decisis about a nanosecond after seven robe-men discovered it in 1973. After stripping away all the sententious legalspeak, the law is just about as Who-Whom as anything else.

    Just because the law is decided by these nine people doesn’t mean that it’s whatever they want it to mean and that it can be one thing on Tuesday and something else on Wednesday.

    Since the Supreme Court tends to release its big decisions on Mondays or Fridays, I suppose it is true that Tuesday and Wednesday law is usually consistent. But beware the end of the week. The Constitution can indeed quite literally mean one thing on Thursday and something else on Friday.

    there are also areas where conservatives would like to interfere with state sovereignty in the name of promoting for example 2nd Amendment rights – this is not a one way street.

    Meh, Chicago can go back to prohibiting handguns, for all the good it did them. The overwhelming majority of Federal intervention into the States is on behalf of leftist projects, which is natural given how monopolies spawn corruption and tyranny.

    There is an old saw that my freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins. Likewise, your freedom to cough virus particles up ends where my lungs begin

    No doubt this is the sort of argument that would be deployed against a freedom of association suit, but since your lungs begin way down at the bottom of your trachea, the argument is less compelling than it looks. There are plenty of activities, even activities that are objectively far more hazardous than being around unvaccinated people, that are perfectly legal for consenting adults to engage in together.

    P.S.
    I agree with your earlier comment about the disturbing trend of even veteran commenters gratuitously slapping the Troll button over mere disagreements, which seems to be going hand-in-hand with a generally coarsening tone of dialogue here, particularly in the covid threads. I didn’t click the Agree button on it because there were several topics in that comment and I wanted to be clear about what I was agreeing with. Well whatever, can’t fix everything. Just letting you know that I continue to value your comments, even if we don’t always agree.

    • Replies: @epebble
  267. I’m pro-vaccine but Biden is clueless as usual.

    The anti-vaxxers already sacrificed their own leaders to prove that the virus doesn’t exist or isn’t a big deal. Five anti-vaxx AM talk show hosts died last month.
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/conservative-radio-hosts-are-being-killed-by-their-own-anti-vaccine-propaganda

    So Biden is late with his poorly thought out plan. The Delta variant already went through the unvaccinated and is going into decline. The anti-vaxxers already filled the hospitals and we can’t bring back the innocent people that they killed. Even if remaining holdouts go get their shot right now it will still take over a month for them to be fully vaccinated. By that time we will be back to June levels. There just aren’t that many COVID deniers remaining that haven’t had it.

    It still makes sense for everyone to get vaccinated but this isn’t the right time for another mandate. They should tie the shot to another stimulus check.

    Unvaccinated overload Idaho hospitals and fill hallways
    https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/09/08/covid-patients-in-hallways-as-idaho-hospitals-are-overwhelmed/

    “It’s just a flu”

  268. @anonymous

    This is the biggest reason why we are moving from California to one of the cited States.

    Fuck Biden and Newsom and fuck all executive orders.

    Time for States and counties and towns to disobey.
    Time for schools and churches and temples and businesses to disobey.

    The citizens of Moscow recently defeated a “show me your papers” (“vaccine passport”) system because vaccinated people joined unvaccinated people in boycotting the businesses until the system was repealed. Do vaccinated Americans have the same decency, loyalty, courage, and respect for their fellow citizens’ right to choose? We will see.

  269. @Bragadocious

    He exempted the USPS which tells you this is all bullshit theater. No way he’d beat that hornets nest. Biden’s weak.

    Biden is indeed weak but that was a false report.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/postal-workers-subject-to-biden-vaccine-mandate-despite-confusion

  270. @anon

    “We’re all gonna get covid. It won’t be that bad.”
    My immunologist, last month

    We are all, everyone, going to be exposed to Coronavirus eventually, and most of us will survive.
    Me, twenty months ago.

    • Agree: Mr Mox
  271. mike99588 says:
    @Captain Tripps

    I don’t know about the “equal” part, but by Black and Snowflake demands, “separate” is making a come back.

    Likewise, C19 vax/unvax is certainly pointing that way.

  272. Jack D says:
    @Mr. Anon

    They don’t have the constitutional authority.

    Constitutional authority is what the Supreme Court says it is. If the Supreme Court says that they have it, then they have it. You might THINK that they shouldn’t. You might think that the Founding Fathers didn’t mean for it to be this way when they wrote it (and you would probably be right). Makes no difference. Constitutional authority is what the Supreme Court says it is. They have the last word on this.

    I am just telling you what the law IS as of now, not what I would like it to be. I would really prefer if we had more of a true Federal system where the Federal government didn’t have overlapping authority with the states over anything and everything – it’s bad enough to have to answer to one bunch of blood sucking bureaucrats without have to answer to two (often three or four because you also have county and town governments) over the same issues and taxing the same income over and over. We need government to some extent but we don’t need double, triple, quadruple overlapping government (but TBH a lot of issues in modern life belong ONLY at the Federal level). But what I prefer really makes no difference because that’s not what the law is nor what it has been for going on 90 years. That horse left the barn a LONG time ago. Don’t blame me for this, blame FDR.

  273. @Mr. Anon

    Yevgeny Zamyatin wrote the original dystopian sci-fi novel, We, which inspired George Orwell to write 1984. Written as a diary, it traces the protagonist’s discovery of his individuality and “red-pilling” if you will. An outbreak of individuality is suppressed as the novel ends…

    The handwriting is mine. And what follows is all in my handwriting. Fortunately only the handwriting. No more delirium, no absurd metaphors, no feelings,—only facts. For I am healthy, perfectly, absolutely healthy…. I am smiling; I cannot help smiling; a splinter has been taken out of my head and I feel so light, so empty! To be more exact, not empty, but there is nothing foreign, nothing that prevents me from smiling. (Smiling is the normal state for a normal human being).

    The facts are as follows: That evening my neighbor who discovered the finiteness of the universe, and I, and all others who did not have a certificate showing that we had been operated on, all of us were taken to the nearest auditorium. (For some reason the number of the auditorium, 112, seemed familiar to me). There they tied us to the tables and performed the great operation. Next day, I, D-503, appeared before the Well-Doer and told him everything known to me about the enemies of happiness. Why before it seemed hard for me to go, I cannot understand. The only explanation seems to be my illness,—my soul.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
  274. @Whiskey

    Great comment
    There is some serious political hay to make opposing this too
    Maybe not a majority but enough to cause serious issues as you mentioned
    Do welfare checks get cut off for unvaccinated?

  275. epebble says:
    @Almost Missouri

    disturbing trend of even veteran commenters gratuitously slapping the Troll button

    Can someone please enlighten me on the utility of the Troll Button? (Hint: Mr. Ron Unz)

    Also, is the LOL button all that valuable if a forum aspires to thoughtful discussions?

  276. @Jack D

    Don’t blame me for this, blame FDR.

    Heck, blame Honest Abe.

  277. @Jack D

    Constitutional authority is what the Supreme Court says it is.

    Bullshit. Constitutional authority is what the Constitution says it is. Raw POWER – which Mr. Anon clearly distinguished from authority — can come from other sources, including Supreme Court rulings.

    • Thanks: Mr. Anon
  278. epebble says:
    @Leo D

    PCR is important in diagnosing living people. Dead people have lungs that look like burnt scrambled egg. No need for PCR there.

    A study of the lungs of 41 people who died from COVID-19 in Italy has revealed extensive damage, persistent distortion of the normal organ structure, scarring of respiratory tissue, and massive blood clotting of the arteries and veins,….

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/11/postmortem-lungs-covid-19-patients-show-massive-damage

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(20)30480-1/fulltext#%20

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  279. Nebraska ‘Karen’ deliberately coughing at shoppers gets fired from job

    Well, at least she’s not going around poking them. But Karens fight back:

    “I don’t wear my hair in an inverted bob, I don’t give unsolicited advice, I rarely use coupons and I have absolutely no friggin’ desire to speak to your manager…

    “ Is there a Karen who is responsible for this faux pas? Let’s hunt her down and reeducate her, but for the love of God, stop lecturing all of us.”

    More gifts from the Yahoo News feed:

    California Moves to Outlaw ‘Stealthing,’ or Removing Condom Without Consent

    (This is a women’s crusade, but check out the picture illustrating the article at The Advocate.)

    Man protecting his wife is beaten unconscious at MN State Fair, charges say

    “Justin Theodore Morgan” does sound kinda like a white name, but I bet he isn’t. “Marquise Donta Brown” certainly won’t look like Charlie, except for a roundish head. Oh, and girls were punching, too, but weren’t arrested.

    I’m shocked by this one– you’re not told he’s a Republican until the very last paragraph:

    Maryland Judge Kills Himself Moments Before Arrest for Child Sex Abuse

    This reporter will have to answer to her editor!

  280. @Jack D

    Don’t blame me for this, blame FDR.

    And the crackers (some matzo) who elected him four times.

  281. Anon[148] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    If there really is a plague, and the vaccines works, and the president is a king, then why is there a religious exemption? Why is there any exemption?

    Because the presumption is that people with serious religious beliefs on the matter are going to be very small, isolated sects like the Amish, Mennonites, etc. Highly partisan, anti-vax internet addicts generally aren’t anti-vax out of serious religious convictions.

  282. Steve,
    Did you notice TheZvi is coming around to “let ‘er rip”?

    The calculation on having these types of controls in place, even for a period of months to a year, look terrible to me. If I had to choose between a year or more of this but no one gets Covid, or alternatively essentially everyone getting Covid before they’re vaccinated (over time, not actual everyone gets it at once and the hospitals crash), I’d choose essentially everyone getting Covid.
    https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2021/09/09/covid-9-9-passing-the-peak/

    He understands the basic logic behind it, which is that the only way to implement preventive mitigation strategies on a society effectively is by ending everything that makes a free society worthwhile.

    Of course, some of those strategies are valuable, which is why we should have a discussion about future lockdowns and how to implement them while also limiting them and then put this into law. What we don’t want is undefined emergency powers taken up by executives and granted de facto by the fear of half of the population–which is what you’ve basically been getting for the last 1.5 years and has led to the situation in Australia (not to mention vaccine passports).

    Of course, by April 2020, it was too late for extreme but limited interventions to be ffective, which is why we should told the vulnerable to protect themselves, instituted some institutional measures like nursing home lockdowns, started searching for ways to prevent the severe form of COVID, and otherwise let ‘er rip.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @J.Ross
  283. Ian M. says:

    Folk gotta stop arguing against this outrageous mandate on the basis of ‘freedoms’ and ‘personal autonomy’. The modern concept of freedom is vacuous, since it refers to no objective standard of the good (indeed, the whole point of the modern concept of freedom is to prescind from such questions of the good), and so can mean whatever one wants it to mean. The upshot is that the left can – and does – employ the came concepts with equal or better effectiveness. The right can cry all day about their freedoms being curtailed by being forced to take the vaccine, but the left can argue that by refusing to get vaccinated, you are infringing on the freedoms of everyone else by endangering their lives and well-being. Their argument is no better or worse than the right’s, since both sides refuse to acknowledge any sort of common standard of goodness (to which freedom must be subordinated) that would be required to adjudicate between the two sides. Why fight on the enemy’s terms?

    The mandate is a hypocritical, brazen act of overreach that is completely out of proportion to the ‘crisis’ it ostensibly aims to solve: we are expected meekly to line up to take a novel vaccine that was approved less than a year ago (and for emergency use only) to eliminate a virus that does not pose a serious risk to the vast majority of the population, at the behest of the government-cum-media-cum-science complex whose dissemblance and incompetence has been nothing short of breathtaking:

    – “Masks don’t work. Masks work.”

    – “If you get vaccinated, then you don’t need to wear a mask. Oh, hey, that was a joke.”

    – “The vaccine will end the pandemic. Oops, we forgot to tell you about variants, which actually every epidemiologist already knew about.”

    – “We just need to get to herd immunity, which is 70%, and then the pandemic will be over. Oh, we’re at 70%, and never mind. That was a joke too.”

    – “We just need to lockdown hard for a couple weeks. … Haven’t you read our Scriptures? A couple weeks is like a thousand days to our god, the national media.”

    – “This virus can kill anybody, stay inside and stay away from large crowds. Except for BLM protests, because anti-racism provides a natural immunity to the virus.”

    – “Hey guys, in practice, actual experience says that similar viruses are seasonal.” “Sure, but what’s the theory say? I say let’s go with our models.”

    No need to argue on the basis of my individual ‘freedoms’.

  284. res says:
    @epebble

    Can someone please enlighten me on the utility of the Troll Button?

    The primary utility at this point is telling you that there is a good chance either the commenter who used it OR the commenter so labeled is a troll. It is up to each of us to decide. Fortunately, it’s usually not that hard. ; )

  285. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jack D

    Constitutional authority is what the Supreme Court says it is. If the Supreme Court says that they have it, then they have it.

    You are confusing legitimate authority with power. Actually, you’re not confusing it. You’re obfuscating it. They have the power. They have not the right. Andrew Jackson told the Court to stuff it. More elected officials – and in particular, state elected officials – need to start doing that too.

    But thanks for the talmudic exegis. You’ve already made it quite clear that you think our rights are negotiable.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  286. Mr. Anon says:
    @epebble

    A study of the lungs of 41 people who died from COVID-19 in Italy has revealed extensive damage, persistent distortion of the normal organ structure, scarring of respiratory tissue, and massive blood clotting of the arteries and veins,….

    How much of that is due to the ventillator?

    • Replies: @epebble
    , @J.Ross
  287. @Rooster111

    I always wondered why Anders Tegnell did not want to talk much about herd immunity.
    Seen from your angle of analysis, Tegnells reluctance make sense. – Thanks.

    Asymptomatic spread is maybe more of a two-faced beast. You might be right, but it might be true at the same time, that asymptomatic spread does exist. – And why not, if for many people this desaese is so mild, that they don’t even realize that they had been ill (except maybe a sour throat or some such negligent symptoms).

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  288. @Chrisnonymous

    That’s what Jay Bhattacharya and Martin Kulldorff and Sunetra Gupta said in the Great Barrington Declaration – and what the Swedes and the Swiss and South Dakota did, by and large, and the Danes and GB, Florida and Texas are doing now.

    The outcomes can be studied in real-world experiments!

    https://gbdeclaration.org/

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  289. Jack D says:
    @Mr. Anon

    I’ve got it now. If the governor of Florida tells the Supreme Court to stuff it, that’s legitimate Constitutional authority. If Joe Biden tells Supreme Court to stuff it, that’s power.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  290. @TomSchmidt

    Why do we have 3 times as many Americans hospitalized this month than Sept. if 2020 ?

    If the vaccines actually prevented hospitalizations we should expect less Americans in the hospital , yet there are 100,099 Americans currently hospitalized for COVID compared to 29,000 last year. If getting 77% of adults vaccinated did not reduce hospitalizations neither will getting 98% vaccinated.

    The data indicates zero protection from hospitalization. They already admitted the vaccines do not prevent CV and will soon force boosters because two shots are not enough to protect you.

    Rather than admit we were lied to , the vaxxed now want to force the unvaccinated to get the shots in order to protect the vaxxed. But if the vaxxed need protection from the unvaccinated , they also need protection from the vaccinated too…so back to lockdowns to prevent hospitalizations….

    • Thanks: The Griffins
    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @John Johnson
  291. @epebble

    is the LOL button all that valuable if a forum aspires to thoughtful discussions?

    People are gonna joke around from time to time. Other people will appreciate that. Before the LOL button, there were many reply comments that were simply, “LOL”. It’s probably more “thoughtful” to keep those contained as a simple reaction tally.

    When the Troll button first appeared, I thought maybe Ron would suspend commenters who picked up too many Troll labels, but that hasn’t happened, and as res points out, it is as likely to identify the labeler as the labelee nowadays, but IMHO when it first appeared it was used with a little more circumspection.

    There are occasionally what I would consider genuine troll comments: commenters with little or no history who pop up to make a purely pejorative or nonsensical statement. Perhaps the Troll label makes it more efficient for Steve or whomever to identify and whim away those comments . At any rate, that is the only circumstance I can recall using the Troll button.

    • Agree: The Real World
  292. J.Ross says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    What if, in the event of a dangerous and highly communicable disease, we closed borders? What if, insofar as people traveled, we isolated and tested them?
    I know, I know. I am here all fish, try the week.
    Follow-up: Anthony Fauci, in a lab coat, wearing a stethescope.
    [drum noises]

  293. @epebble

    Can someone please enlighten me on the utility of the Troll Button? (Hint: Mr. Ron Unz)

    Also, is the LOL button all that valuable if a forum aspires to thoughtful discussions?

    For me, in addition to my obviously stating the person is a troll or effectively one (sometimes can’t tell if it’s ignorance with or without malice, and there is no “Idiot” button), it’s fair warning the person is also going to be Ignored going forward although I occasionally pare down that list, which has a limited size. LOL is a useful for when someone says something genuinely amusing you want to acknowledge but it doesn’t warrant the clutter of a mindless reply comment. Although some people use it like they use Troll.

  294. Jack D says:
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    The data indicates zero protection from hospitalization.

    This is just false. You’re making up your own “facts” to suit your prejudices.

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2021/09/09/beaumont-study-vaccines-prevent-covid-19-hospitalizations-deaths/8255485002/

    the fully vaccinated group had a 96% lower rate of emergency visits or hospitalizations than the unvaccinated group.

    Being unvaccinated makes it 10x more likely that you will be hospitalized and 11x more likely that you will die of Covid. Most of the people in hospitals are unvaccinated.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/

    9 out of 10 people who are hospitalized with Covid are unvaccinated. Many of the vaccinated are hospitalized for other causes and are asymptomatic for Covid and only counted in the Covid breakthru group because they test positive on a blood test.

    https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/

    The reason hospitalizations haven’t gone down is that half the population refuses to get vaccinated even thought there is an even more virulent variant in circulation.

  295. Anon[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade Hampton

    Your wife sounds wonderful. May I inquire which vaccines your relative and neighbors chose? I am being dragged towards J&J.

  296. epebble says:
    @Mr. Anon

    A ventilator inserts a tube into windpipe through the mouth. This can cause some abrasion to the windpipe. But no mechanical part reaches down into lungs. All the decay and damage to lungs is due to the virus (and sometimes, later bacterial infection, as in pneumonia).

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  297. NOTA says:
    @BB753

    The thing is, we hve good technology for protecting the vulnerable. Vaccinate them, give them a booster every 6 months, give them and their caregivers N95 masks and put HEPA air cleaners in places they’re going to be, let them use delivery or curbside pickup to get groceries and such. You can do that without imposing much burden on healthy 30 year olds. Require vaccination for people working in nursing homes and hospitals, along with good masks and HEPA filters, make vaccines and good masks available for anyone else who wants them.

    Use rapid tests to protect the vulnerable–on our summer vacation we did this. Before we visit grandma and grandpa, everyone takes a rapid test. Give visitors to nursing homes a rapid test before they come in, and employees one every couple days.

    All this protects the vulnerable without imposing huge costs on everyone else.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
  298. @Dieter Kief

    Yes, well, TGBD was in October 2020, but I believe I was advocating for “let ‘er rip” months before that.

    I think we should be careful lumping all these countries together, however. For example, Sweden didn’t do a good job of protecting the vulnerable in institutions. And Denmark is only re-opening now because their health commissars determined that the country has reached a critical mass of vaccinated citizens. They are all somewhat different.

  299. @Dieter Kief

    Here is an interview with Sweden’s John Giesecke from a year ago. He is quite explicit: the Swedish plan was not to achieve herd immunity. The Swedish plan was to deal with pandemics with as little disruption to normal life as possible. That is quite a different goal from trying to stop a pandemic by getting lots of people infected.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  300. @NOTA

    Problem is, lots of people in their 30s through 50s and on up to 65 have been dying in this Delta wave. In my local region I’ve been playing close attention to death ages as well as our hospital systems reporting, and for deaths roughly as many people under 65 have been dying as above that age. A stratification we didn’t see in the previous waves/peaks before there were vaccines available, and well matching the age stratification of those who got vaccinated and those who didn’t, as well as hospital reports that have specificity in the number of beds occupied by each, they’re not just mindlessly saying “90% unvaxxed” as has been claimed elsewhere.

    So, yes, by all means be careful WRT to vaccinating anyone below 30 with an mRNA vaccine and especially “kids,” but if we want to minimize total long term mortality and morbidity “everyone” starting in their 30s should get vaccinated if they haven’t already acquired natural immunity. And getting a vaccination will sharpen natural immunity, although it’s not clear that’s worth it for Delta.

    Nor is it in the slightest clear that anyone will need “booster shots every six months,” we just don’t know nor can know although I suppose specialists can guess about the immunocompromised. That meme is mostly fear porn, only supported by “common cold” coronavirus natural immunity data and so far iffy evidence that immunity may be fading from one or more of the two dose vaccines, with people studiously ignoring the vaccines that have three or more childhood dose schedules and Delta’s immune escape mutations. OK, the latter along with the assumption the virus has an infinite number of moves, which we also can’t know yet.

    Both sides, virus and especially vaccines “have not yet begun to fight,” for the US the latter are based on years and decades of previous research plus the classic Wuhan genetic sequence.

    • Replies: @NOTA
  301. @epebble

    , is the LOL button all that valuable if a forum aspires to thoughtful discussions?

    I am the one who suggested the LOL button to Ron Unz. Before it existed, about 20% of comments were people replying with “ha, ha” or “I shot milk out my nose over that one” and such. It was annoying to read through these.

  302. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Yes, he is gaga too. When people slide into dementia their previous tendencies tend to become exaggerated. Likewise with Trump.

  303. @Sick 'n Tired

    … but otherwise have to keep my mask covering my nose and mouth on a sealed tube, breathing recycled air [emphasis added].

    This is a common misconception. In fact, the interiors of passenger jets are fed by a constant stream of filtered, fresh air. The air is more likely to be “virus free” than in most public venues where going maskless is often allowed (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/how-clean-is-the-air-on-your-airplane-coronavirus-cvd).

    This is precisely why the mask mandates on planes are so particularly useless, absurd, aggravating, and probably counter-productive.

  304. BB753 says:
    @NOTA

    Except the new fancy vaccines don’t seem to work too well and it’s too soon to evaluate the long-term effects. Why not use whole viron vaccines instead, like the Chinese do, on the sickly, elderly and boomerish, like we still do with the flu, and let everybody else live their lives as they choose? I know it sounds crazy today, but that’s the way epidemics used to be tackled until 2020: you don’t isolate healthy populations because you want them to contract the virus and produce antibodies, and let the virus sizzle out as it travels through the population, while you protect, isolate and/or vaccinate the vulnerable. And you don’t want to vaccinate anybody with last season’s variant and not in the middle of an outbreak.
    Why are we doing everything backwards? To ask the question is to answer it.

  305. HA says:
    @J.Ross

    “were someone to tell an 85 year old that the “vaccine” causes infertility, and the idea was granted, the 85 year old would then point out that he’s 85 years old. But included with today’s model, they are pushing for the “vaccination” of five year olds.”

    If the five-year-olds in question are those who have asthma, diabetes, obesity or whatever else makes them more likely to suffer from COVID, then even if that also means they’re more likely to suffer spike-protein -related side effects, I’m not particularly surprised, but I’d have to see the data and details. I find that preferable to blindly swallowing and then regurgitating whatever some newspaper tells me just because it happens to conform to my biases, but clearly, we’re of two minds on that.

  306. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jack D

    I’ve got it now. If the governor of Florida tells the Supreme Court to stuff it, that’s legitimate Constitutional authority. If Joe Biden tells Supreme Court to stuff it, that’s power.

    As opposed to what? Nine people in black robes decide what is lawful? No matter how directly contradicting the plain language of the Constitution their rulings may be?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  307. J.Ross says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Oh be reasonable, had they not rammed through a known-incorrect no-choice ventilator protocol, how would they have been able to scare anyone?

  308. Jack D says:
    @Adam Smith

    If you don’t trust your doctor, get another doctor.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  309. Ian M. says:
    @Jack D

    Biden’s proposal left out transportation. What he should have required was no getting on a plane, train or bus unless you are vaccinated. Again, no compulsion involved, you just can’t get on the plane.

    Or, how about this: “What he should have required was no buying of food unless you are vaccinated. Again, no compulsion involved, you just can’t buy food.”

    It’s disingenuous to pretend there is no degree of compulsion here.

  310. Jack D says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Short answer: yes.

    “Plain language” is not as plain as you think it is. Words don’t have a meaning that is independent of human interpretation, especially not in law.

    If you don’t like their rulings, they can be impeached in accordance with the Constitution. That’s the only recourse. That’s why they are called the SUPREME court – they sit on top of the pile. They have the last word. That’s the system that we’ve got and I’m not in favor of overthrowing it.

  311. V. Hickel says:
    @Bragadocious

    not to mention the millions of border jumpers

  312. V. Hickel says:
    @Spud Boy

    unless you work for govt…

  313. @Chrisnonymous

    I know, Giesecke and Tegnell said repeatedly: Let’s be careful and – let us avoid panic.

    I think they succeeded both ways.

    I think they were hesitant with regard to herd immunity not least, because a) the t-cell immunity is not really understood – not least with regard to CO-19 and b) Covid-viruses mutate… – and they drew the conclusion, that it thus would be less risky to go for a modus vivendi. – Kulldorff/Gupta/Bhattacharya seem to still favor this approach. – Especially Giesecke did not want to make all this explicit. – Old school: Keep cool! – Say nothing that you might later on regret.

    They pointed out early on, that it would be necessary to protest the vulnerable (those in care homes not least), but – to no big effect. – Which made them publicly sigh. One of the two did once reveal a bit of the background of the problem with the care homes: That lots of care-workers don’t speak/understand Swedish – and that nobody seemed to know what to do under such circumstances – the Swedes are not used to people that here the message and don’t react properly.****

    ***That’s a noticeable difference between Switzerland and Germany: The Swiss urge their stuff -to learn the language (even the Swiss dialect on some occasions!) – German officials shrug their shoulders.
    I spoke to hospital management in Germany every once in a while, and the usual reaction is:
    We know – but what shall we do? – – Swiss pay (much) better though. Nurses earning ca. a third more than in Germany.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  314. Rob says:
    @Rooster111

    If they are using multiple probes, and those same probes in a control (I wish they would use human reverse transcribed false template without covid, but I don’t know if they do) then thresholds below the cycle number they start getting positives from the control, which would indicate that probe is interacting with itself, primers, or control non-template DNA, then pretty much any number of cycles is fine.

    We can get PCR to the point where you can amplify single molecules of DNA to threshold without printer-dimers or non-templated product. Sample volumes run about 15 to 20 μL.

    Depending on how many new copies they are making from one template every cyclic pcr is probably less than one. Amplification per cycle is really (1 + e), where e is between zero and one, so Ct for a single molecule of template is however many cycles to get to 33 million-fold amplificati9n. Any ct higher than that is probably a true positive.

    [MORE]

    Now, if they get to Ct at 35 cycles, that is technically around 2^35 amplification, 30-odd million fold with perfect pcr, so that 2 might be 1.7. Ct of 35 is approximately the ct for single molecule of template in your sample, around 20 microliters, 20L/1,000,000. So if you have a Ct of 25, you had around a thousand covid genomes in you sample, or 50,000 genomes per a milliliter of snot.

    So, you have that ct of 25. 50k genomes in a milliliter of snot. Is that a lot? Do you have covid? That’s a huge number for an non-laboratory exposure. Covid is probably using you to reproduce, so you have covid, but I don’t know if you’ll feel bad? Perhaps you will fight it off, it’s not viable. For HIV, we detect about 10,000 copies of the genome (5,000 virions if they’re all packaged) for every pfu, plaque forming unit when injecting a tissue culture. One plaque, a region of dead cells is in theory caused by a single virion (one particle of virus), otoh, with other viruses, less than one pfu doses have proven infectious to volunteers. That happens because viruses move randomly in solution through Brownian motion and virions near the top of the liquid you pour on the cells do not get a chance to infect, but cells in you are very close to each other, an the virus particles don’t have far to diffuse. So, genome copies to infectious virus in a living host is not totally clear.

    So, pcr is not perfect. A “better” test would be to take that sample of snot and try to infect a tissue culture, and get a pfu count. But that will take longer, involve more work, and be more expensive.. QRTPCR can be finished while you wait in the doctor’s office.

    You also have to remember that people don’t necessarily get tested on their day of highest virus concentration. Lots of people during late 2019 and all of 2020 would get the sniffles and immediately go in for a covid test. These people with high ct, lots of them probably got sicker with covid, but did not get another pcr test, because they already new they had covid.

    I know doctors and biomedical people lean left. But they are very good at their jobs. They are really not out to harm anyone. Do they want to make money. Yeah. Do you? But medicine paid well before the pandemic. BioNtech and Moderna were already pursuing mRNA vaccines. If they worked, the owners would have ended up billionaires for treating cancer instead of covid.

    None of that applies to epidemiologists. They have been truly awful. They do not know understand disease, how it spreads or how it evolves. Evolution is one area, probably the most important one, where mist biomed people know nothing, See the West Hunter blog for details.

    Please get vaccinated. Both shots, and a booster if that is approved. You and I are going to covid one day, because there is no realistic way to put the genie back in the bottle. The odds severe harm from vaccine side effects + covid afterwards is much smaller than the chance of harm from covid without having been vaccinated.

    The vaccine is not super-effective? You need two shots and (probably) boosters? Vaccine efficacy and negative reactions are a tradeoff. Even if you come up with something that shifts the line on the graph there will still be a tradeoff. Modern vaccination strategy is to minimize reactogenicity (the negative effects of vaccination, ranging from injection site pain, to flu-like symptoms to Guillain-Barre paralysis) at the cost of efficacy. Is that reasonable? Maybe. For polio vaccination, the US switched from live-attenuated oral vaccine to inactivated injected vaccine. The oral vaccine induces mucosal immunity, so you don’t spread poliovirus through poop, and with the inactivated version you can still get the GI tract infection, oral vaccine paralyzed people on the order of one in a million. It also led to circulating reverted polio. Was the switch a good idea? Polionis very rare in the US. We treat water and sewage, so even if someone does get GI tray polio, probably he won’t pass it on. People getting paralysed is awful. So they use inactivatec poliovirus.

    The point of that is that vaccinologiets work to minimize reactogenicity, because most of the diseases we vaccinate for are rare, because of vaccination. As horrible pandemics go, covid is probably as mild as could be desired. Any medieval serf would trsde away plague for covid. If covid had a 30% case fatality rate like smallpox, we would chose vaccines1 that was more protective but had more side-effects than vsccine2, with fewer side effects but bless protective.

    The point? The mRNA vaccines are super-safe! You should get one, just because it will make your inevitable case of covid milder.bEventually, we will have live-attenuated versions. You should get that one too! Two shots to the body, then a nose spray.

    The best thing to do, for safety in general? Get a thorough DNA test, one where they sequence you, to make sure you don’t have any immune deficiencies. Then get every vaccine you can! Get a yellow fever shot! Get every vaccine you can, live attenuated is best. Get a BCG shot for the positive side-effects that most attenuated vaccines have. Get the RTS, S vaccine for malaria. If global warming brings malaria north, and there was malaria in the South here and in freaking Denmark, you will be better off, if only a little.

    If the shit hits the fan, like civil war or economic collapse, you are better off vaccinated against evetything. You will be a disease-free, liberal-owning machine. When the antifa militia is pooping their pants from cholera or typhoid, your pants will be shitless and your aim will be true. When you are in the FEMA concentration camp for conservatives, all the plagues will pass you by. Get the polyvalent vaccines against like 49 kinds of pneumonia. You will be breathing cleanly when everyone else on the death march is drowning in his own bodily fluids.

    One time the nurse messed up my tetanus vaccine, like she gave me the whole vial of ten or twenty doses. My arm hurt from shoulder to finger tips for two weeks. It sucked, but it convinced me that I did not want tetanus.

    Get every vaccine you can! Get the boosters on their schedules. They are gifts from the gods.

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
    • Troll: The Griffins
    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  315. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    Why do we have 3 times as many Americans hospitalized this month than Sept. if 2020 ?

    Because a highly contagious version mutated from an overpopulated unvaccinated country and then half the US didn’t get the vaccine when it was available.

    The data indicates zero protection from hospitalization.

    Uh no there are mounds of data showing that the unvaccinated are far more likely to end up in the hospital
    https://www.belmarrahealth.com/new-data-reveals-covid-vaccines-significantly-slash-the-risk-of-hospitalization/

    Northern Idaho is rationing health care thanks to the unvaccinated
    https://news.yahoo.com/idaho-activates-healthcare-rationing-northern-014111999.html

    This is old news. Florida was overwhelmed a month ago by unvaccinated COVID patients
    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/frontline-workers-florida-current-covid-19-surge-feels/story?id=79151882

    So to claim the vaccines don’t work would require an explanation as to why all these hospitals are independently reporting that they are being overwhelmed by the unvaccinated.

  316. @Rob

    If the shit hits the fan, like civil war or economic collapse, you are better off vaccinated against evetything. You will be a disease-free, liberal-owning machine. When the antifa militia is pooping their pants from cholera or typhoid, your pants will be shitless and your aim will be true. When you are in the FEMA concentration camp for conservatives, all the plagues will pass you by. Get the polyvalent vaccines against like 49 kinds of pneumonia. You will be breathing cleanly when everyone else on the death march is drowning in his own bodily fluids.

    Best pitch I’ve seen for becoming The Omega Man!

  317. NOTA says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    There’s evidence that antibody titers fall off a lot after a few months, down to where they won’t reliably prevent infection. Booster shots raise those titers back up, which sure seems like it should be protective.

    I think it makes sense for most people to get vaccinated, and the RNA vaccines seem to be pretty safe. But it’s a slam dunk for high risk people, whereas it’s less urgent as your risk of dying from covid goes down.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  318. Mr. Anon says:
    @epebble

    I had read that the ventillators could cause damage too if the pressure is too high.

    • Replies: @epebble
  319. @NOTA

    There’s evidence that antibody titers fall off a lot after a few months, down to where they won’t reliably prevent infection.

    Are you talking about the initial antibody fleet that’s created when the humoral adaptive immune system is first challenged with an antigen? Because those have “fall off,” else before you exited childhood you wouldn’t have any room left in your plasma for red blood cells.

    This is addressed by memory B cells, which also refine the antibody fleets they’ll make if challenged again after exposure, per Rockfeller University, for months after an infection, and per a paper I haven’t read yet, only three weeks after vaccination (I’m suspecting another boost dose prompts them to do a bit more, but don’t know).

    Why do we keep seeing studies saying this? Because they’re the easiest to do, it’s the old “drunk looking for his car keys under the streetlight because he can see there,” when he knows he lost them elsewhere. That is, a cheap way to get a paper published, even if it’s going to be of low impact. All this also ignores the cellular component of the adaptive immune system, although antibodies can prevent cells from getting hijacked in the first place.

    Now, in the middle of a pandemic, getting a booster shot partly to get those memory B cells to make another antibody fleet may make sense, I’ve see than as one justification. But it’s for the special circumstances of Delta having immune escape mutations, and/or maybe immunity in general falling off, the latter is not clear.

    • Replies: @NOTA
  320. @Abolish_public_education

    • refuse to get an abortion.
    • won’t wear a helmet while being a passenger in a motorized vehicle.
    • get themselves, or their kids circumcised.
    • oppose public education, e.g. homeschool.

    Wait, one of those things isn’t quite like the others…

  321. epebble says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Any ventilator made in the last 20+ years has computer control (and multiple redundancies) to keep pressure to within a small percent of safe limit. FDA is very good in monitoring medical equipment.

  322. @Dieter Kief

    I suspect in the long term we’ll find out more about the contribution of minorities to case load in Sweden, not only with regard to nursing homes. But for now, that seems to be a verboten question.

  323. @Jack D

    It’s funny that you’d assume I’d “trust a doctor”.
    I’ve lost all faith in doctors and the medical system.
    I haven’t trusted or visited a doctor in more than 25 years.
    I see no reason to start now.

  324. Ragno says:
    @Che Blutarsky

    This is about assigning blame when the vaccines fail and things go to shit.

    When the vaccines fail…? THE VACCINES HAVE FAILED. How detailed a map do you require?

    The major stakeholders in this – the powerful forces (and don’t kid yourself with tinfoil-hat rhetoric, there really are powerful forces out there) in charge of global Public Health – have untold trillions riding on this.

    That’s why none of the clever science mavens in our global media have ever bothered to point out that you can’t get Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA for a dangerous new vaccine if there are even halfway-effective therapeutic treatments for COVID. And this is why all such treatments, including the useful drugs HCQ and Ivermectin were brutally suppressed for 18 months.

    Ditto the complete Cone of Silence treatment for the Administration policy to allow well over a million unvetted, undocumented third-world cucarachas, many if not most crawling with exotic variants like Delta and Lambda, to be waved in, mid-pandemic, without so much as a q-tip up the fucking nose. While CNN and MSNBC, and their own print variants, screwed up their facial expressions trying to figure out how best to blame this all on the same white Americans they’ve been brutally abusing for years now for COVID and DELTA and, well, just everything awful in life, no one – not even Fox or its variants – remembered to hang a million and a half plague-ridden cucarachas like a Hawaiian lei around Biden’s neck. (I honestly believe they forgot – the old fool’s been such a constant series of catastrophes and mushmouthed gaffes, he’s practically a slapstick comedy by this point.)


    Our 46th President

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  325. @Ragno

    That’s why none of the clever science mavens in our global media have ever bothered to point out that you can’t get Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA for a dangerous new vaccine if there are even halfway-effective therapeutic treatments for COVID.

    I would say that’s because they or whomever are feeding them the Party Line actually know the law, but I doubt more than a fraction of them do if any; here is the relevant line, emphasis added:

    (3) that there is no adequate, approved, and available alternative to the product for diagnosing, preventing, or treating such disease or condition;

    There are to date no approved therapies for COVID, everything previously approved is being used off label, except maybe the steroids which are prescribed for bad enough cases.

    Here in the real world where shouting in all caps means nothing, Western vaccines are holding up pretty well to the Delta variant with its multiple spike protein immune escape mutations. Not as well as against the class Wuhan there were designed to counter, but enough to for example be trivially visible in the age stratification of deaths, someone recently claimed in an Unz.com topic that the average age is now 65, which agrees with the local data I’m seeing.

    Just to make this clear, half the people dying are under age 65. Locally, that half ranges from their thirties on up. That would seem to be due to a much higher fraction of the elderly getting vaccinated.

  326. vinteuil says:
    @Jack D

    OK, so the unvaccinated are putting at risk the tiny subset of people who “can’t be vaccinated because they have actual medical conditions or they are too young?”

    Is that the party line, now?

  327. TWS says:

    Everyone is comparing covid to small pox, it’s not small pox, it’s not even close. Small pox is fatal. Absent comorbidities, covid is not. Others have noted no vaccine is 100% effective, but this isn’t close to effective. It makes it easier for covid to mutate.

    If the lock downs, vaccine ‘mandates’ and travel restrictions were on the level, they would lock up the border tight enough to sharpen a pencil, you wouldn’t see our elderly President near a crowd, prisoners nation wide would be forbidden transfer to other facilities. In fact, prisons, and other facilities would enact strict quarantines within and between facilities. Refugees would be quarantined at least a month by arrival cohort.

    You would see millions dead over historical norms in the US. But we don’t.

    What you do see are the elites ignoring the restrictions and ‘safety measures’. We see the one kinda-sorta ‘constitutional’ measure that can be used to overtly restrict and monitor travel being pushed hard.

    It’s about control of the common, working day populace.

  328. NOTA says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Higher antibody titers seem to correlate with lower probability of getting symptomatic covid. This seems
    like a pretty good thing to me–if I don’t get it, I won’t risk ending up in the hospital with it or gettign long covid from it.

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