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Biden: Instead of Anybody Coming at You and the First Thing You Do Is Shoot to Kill, You Shoot Them in the Leg.
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From Joe Biden’s Town Hall transcript on how to reform the police:

There’s a lot of things we’ve learned and it takes time, but we can do this. You can ban chokeholds, you can — but — but beyond that, you have to teach people how to de-escalate circumstances, de-escalate.

So, instead of anybody coming at you and the first thing you do is shoot to kill, you shoot them in the leg.

Why not just shoot the knife or gun out of the bad guy’s hand like on the TV Westerns that Joe avidly watched in 1955?

From TV Tropes:

Discussed in Blue Bloods after Jamie kills a man for the first time. A reporter at a press briefing asks Frank why Jamie shot to kill instead of trying to shoot the gun out of the man’s hand. Frank just sort of gives him an exasperated look before explaining that Jamie followed department policy, which is to shoot until the threat is neutralized. Then, when the reporter keeps trying to press the issue, Frank shuts him up for good:

Frank: There’s a man in front of you waving a gun in your direction. You have a second to react. What do you do?

Reporter: Well, first I’d-

Frank: [interrupts] Too late. You’re dead.

Joe has been expounding upon his “shoot them in the leg” reform for months on the campaign trail. Does it focus group well? Has nobody asked him about how it is supposed to work in the real world? And how would an announced police policy of Don’t Shoot to Kill de-escalate circumstances? Wouldn’t it incentivize crooks to try their luck charging the cops?

By the way, I could imagine a policy of shooting out tires on getaway cars might be worth considering. For example, in the Jacob Blake case in Kenosha, you have Blake’s ex-girlfriend screaming that this man is stealing her car with her children inside it. Maybe in these kind of cases where the cops arrive and they can’t tell if it’s really a kidnapping or just a domestic dispute, shooting out a tire would buy some time to sort things out.

But, of course, shooting at a car with three children it it …

By the way, my mother was selected for the jury to try Richard Pryor in the January 1, 1978 incident in which, after a tumultuous New Year’s Eve, his wife climbed in her car to leave him for good, but Pryor, wishing to slow things down, shot the engine of her car in his driveway. (But the trial was then delayed, so the jury my mom was on was dismissed.)

Update: iSteve commenter Rob Lee explains how it all really works:

I’ve been around law enforcement firearms training – mainly as a first responder – for a few years, and shooting at both limbs (as a way of disabling the assailant) and vehicle tires (or any other part of the vehicle, really) is pure Hollywood nonsense.

You only need three main organs to continue fighting when the ‘flight or fight’ adrenaline kicks in (indeed to survive at all – ask any quad amputee), and those are the brain, heart and lungs. When the fight starts in earnest, all the blood draws in from your extremities to protect those three vital organs, which is why your hands and feet tingle when you’re under extreme stress. Ever been in a real fistfight and felt like you had hot iron in your belly and were floating on numb legs? That’s the effect at work. But to the point the blood leaves your arms and legs to concentrate in your torso and protect your vitals. I’ve seen some gunshot victims with clean, bloodless holes in their hands and forearms not realize they were shot until the blood started to recirculate, post incident (at which point it spurts). That’s why EMTs cut away all clothing in a shooting incident – to look for holes that haven’t cleanly penetrated (exit wounds) or that haven’t started leaking yet. Tactically, shooting in the arms and legs wastes time, ammunition and raises the possibility that the round will pass through and fly unimpeded downrange… kids down the street on the playground and all that.

Limbs move fast, your torso moves slowly. Remember your football coach yelling at you to tackle at the hips, not down at the legs… same principle. Training cops to shoot at limbs will plunge their hit probability down in to gangster territory, flying willy-nilly. That’s precisely the opposite of where I think all of you want police bullets to go. Into bad guy, not into thin apartment wall.

Interestingly enough, lots of people do get shot in the hands and forearms ‘unintentionally,’ as untrained or poorly trained shooters will tend to panic and shoot at the threat – which in their mind is the opponent’s firearm. The end of that barrel can look a mile wide when pointed at you! so they shoot at the other gun and hit the hand that holds it. But again, not on purpose. That’s ‘in the black’ panic mode; not a good place to be.

Even center mass hits can take awhile to down a suspect if they’ve made the decision to just not quit. Stories abound of people taking half a dozen rounds and continuing to fight – even to go on and disarm and shoot the officer with her own firearm – only to expire later on when their own holes start to leak. Heavy clothing plays a big factor as penetration is lessened. So does ‘will to win’ and ‘I’m not going back to jail under any circumstances.’ Adrenaline is an amazing drug, capable of wonders. You may not believe this, as Hollywood says otherwise, but for shooters with little or poor training, small caliber handguns are not really that effective in stopping people. Also, as Steve alludes to from time to time, medical technology really has improved to the point where some people who would have died in an earlier age now walk away with manageable after effects.

At least as far as I have witnessed the actual ‘decision to shoot training,’ no one (at least on the non-military, non-sniper federal level) is ever trained to “shoot to kill.” You’re trained to shoot to stop the assailant from doing whatever it is they were doing to raise the incident to deadly force. You have to justify every round, so you better have a good reason to let fly. To be most effective, you shoot center mass, as that’s the largest target on the human body with the obvious highest potential for heart and lung damage. Another Hollywood myth is drilling several rounds perfectly into one space. You don’t shoot ten rounds into one hole. Shooting a human is not like target shooting. Professionals will spread their rounds around the torso for maximum organ damage and internal leakage.

The feds I work with only draw their firearms in defense of their life, their partner or an innocent third party. They do not draw their firearms until it is the absolute last card to play, because if you pull out your firearm only to threaten, and then fail to fire, you’ve just laid down your last card without the intent of using it, and the bad guy might call your bluff (probably by wrestling it from you and killing you with it). Many agencies have gone away from the gradual escalation model (verbal, ‘hands-on,’ non-lethal, lethal), as it’s finally been realized and accepted in the ‘train as you fight’ world that a bad guy can go from verbal to lethal in seconds. Too many cops were getting hurt when the bad guy went from ‘Eff You’ to gun fight, while the cop was still thinking “arm bar then baton.” Now it’s stay well ahead of your opponent, so words to bullets in the space of even a few seconds can make perfect sense, given the scenario. Again, justification is the key. I’ve never heard a competent officer use the “I was afraid for my life” nonsense. Articulable factors have to pile one atop another until even the most ACAB juror understands that there simply was no other choice.

Shooting a vehicle? Nope. Tell a professional hunter that you’re going elk hunting with a handgun. They’ll think you’re crazy. It’s simply physics. Tonnage on the move is not going to be effected by a fingernail-sized chunk of iron. Even if you do manage to get the tire, the car will travel for quite some time before a deflation is even detected by the driver. What’s more, the car is not the threat as much as the person using the car as a weapon is the true threat. Shoot the driver. Just do it from the side if it’s moving, not from the front through the windshield… otherwise you’re already under the bumper.

The very best method of disabling a vehicle is what smart cops do… if you think you’re going to have problems with a car on the move, carry a stop-stick and slide it in front of the driver’s side rear wheel on approach before moving up to speak to the driver. Better yet have your partner do the same on the passenger side as well. No constitutional violation at all by sliding a stop-stick in front of a car tire. It’s easily removed if you conclude the encounter and let the individual drive away. No bullets, but still gets you a flat tire when the suspect tries to roll away. (For those of you who don’t know, a stop-stick is about two feet long and has three sides – filled with hollow spikes to puncture a tire and release the air in a controlled manner if run over.)

Sorry for the wall of text. I get frustrated when I still see this discussed as a potential way to ‘avoid’ deadly force encounters. If a law enforcement officer has pulled out his gun, it’s a sign that things have gone terribly wrong, and it’s at that point that the officer has already decided that he, not the other guy, is the one going home to his family. I don’t know any officer who actually wants to shoot someone. This board is full of intelligent people, so honestly ask yourself this: do you really think that a cop actually wants to be in a jury dock fighting for his career, life and family, or would he rather be sitting in his squad car, sipping a Jamba juice and watching the bikini-clad skate girls on the boardwalk?

(I get equally frustrated when I hear people ‘cock a Glock’ in the movies. It’s so annoying. There’s no external hammer to cock… THEY DON’T DO THAT! It’s why my wife won’t watch cops shows with me anymore.)

 
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  1. tyrone says:

    Severed femoral artery …..death in minutes …… new police policy : cripple young black men

  2. AUSA(ret) says:

    It is amazing how kind Sleepy Joe is to prove over and over again how dumb he truly is, a fact long ago recognized by a voter in New Hampshire. Unless we are prepared to sacrifice the lives of thousands of police officers and our own safety and sense of well being, this dummy’s proposal must be tossed on the trash heap of truly stupid and senseless ideas. Joe’s repeated re-election and his rise to the vice presidency and nomination as president says little about the talent pool in Delaware (witness Sen. Coons), Barrack Obama or the Democrat party.

    • Agree: TWS
  3. Major arteries in both legs, plus large veins. Maybe a shot to the balls would work, well I know it would work, but repercussions from forced sterilization probably cost you your job. Some big ass thug like Michael brown, has a lot of fat on their legs, round probably passes through and doesn’t stop them. Well, that’s what happened with MB. But, the real question Joe, you effing ass wipe, is at what distance do you fire the first shot? Oh, and last thought, sigh, can’t use dogs on blacks.

    • Agree: Lot
  4. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Imagine the cop shot the tire, Blake drove off in the car anyway, the car got t-boned, and kids got injured or killed.

    • Agree: JimDandy
  5. Michelle says:

    No, shooting in the legs is too violent. Police officers should “bite” suspects in the legs.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  6. Yee-haw! Corn-pop rides again!

    (Or is it Porn-cop?)

  7. I’m having trouble deciding which is dumber, Joe’s “shoot ’em in the leg” or humoring and transitioning eight year old girls who want to be boys.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Kylie
    , @Bill Jones
  8. syonredux says:

    Wait, ya mean this isn’t realistic?

  9. Wake up says:

    Joe Biden might be elected to President of the United States, we really are doomed as a nation.

    • Agree: throtler, Joseph Doaks
  10. JMcG says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Joe, you haven’t mentioned how much you don’t like Governor Cuomo recently. How do I know it’s really you?

  11. Doesn’t matter.

    I predicted in early March that the election would be determined by how well the electorate feels Trump handled the Coronavirus crisis.

    Everything else is just blah blah blah.

  12. Farenheit says:

    From what I understand, in a lot of police departments, if you/your partner are in a situation that warrants deadly force, and the force is not appropriately applied, a lose of one’s job is on the table.

    Apparently being cowardly with the use of deadly force, when the situation warrants it, is a trait that results in no one wanting to work with you.

    Perhaps someone in the trade could elaborate further.

  13. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    How Panglossian can you get? For this guy, the glass is always half full.

  14. Coemgen says:

    So, instead of anybody coming at you and the first thing you do is shoot to kill, you shoot them in the leg.

    A hair’s breadth away from being Commander-in-Chief and he’s unaware of the concept of downrange?

    SMH

  15. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    Or rub the leg if it’s hairy.

    • LOL: throtler
  16. Richard Pryor has a famous routine about shooting his car while high on freebase (the drug that lends its slang name to the word “based” BTW). I’ll get whimmed if I quote it, but check the video below, it’s right at the beginning.

    Grugs on YT saying “this jeok still applies lol XD” should come as no surprise… yes, police do still shoot a lot of black men, perhaps because black men are more likely to be found firing full magazines into their own cars after fighting with their wives while coked up…?

  17. Altai says:

    Meanwhile, in Paris, the Chechens are once again making their presence felt. The French police didn’t shoot him in the leg.

    https://www.dw.com/en/france-teacher-decapitated-in-gruesome-islamist-terror-attack-near-paris/a-55304870

    France: Teacher decapitated in gruesome ‘Islamist terror attack’ near Paris

    A suspect has been shot dead after a knife attack in the outskirts of Paris. The victim was a teacher who had reportedly recently shown caricatures of Muhammad in class.

    French police shot a man dead on Friday after he allegedly decapitated a teacher near Paris.

    The suspect allegedly beheaded a man at about 5 p.m. in Conflans Sainte-Honorine, north-west of Paris.

    Officers were called to the area after reports of a suspicious man loitering near the victim’s school. They found the dead victim and saw the alleged perpetrator nearby. He was then shot dead after allegedly threatening officers.

    A Twitter account purportedly operated by the killer posted a gruesome, unverified image of the killing and claimed responsibility for the attack shortly after the incident. The account was quickly suspended.

    Local media have identified the attacker as an 18-year-old man of Chechen origin, citing unnamed sources.

    As much as Richard Spencer wants to believe, there is no such thing as an ethnicity called ‘white people’. Americans are just inclined to think so because immigration to it hasn’t been very white in over two generations.

    And the Simpsons has made a bit that almost seems like a parody but sadly isn’t.

    ‘Lost Hong Kong’ – So, the narrative of the protestors being Western running dogs is correct? Also, Trump is responsible for there not being a revolution?

    ‘Invaded Portland’ – The historical illiteracy of this is insane at the very least.

    ‘Allowed bounties on soldiers’ – I wish Trump would stop doing imaginary things.

    ‘Destroyed democracy’ – Again, as Steve likes to go on about, Trump’s campaign was a triumph for democracy.

    ‘Put Jared in charge of Mideast’ – Careful Simpsons writers, there’s a reason he is so relatively untouched by late night comics despite being the soft underbelly of corruption, incompetence and comedy of the Trump admin. Did anyone make fun of him pardoning that Rabbi?

    ‘Corrupted congress’ – ?

    ‘Called Carly Fiorina horseface’ – Who cares, he could have shot 5 or 6 career Washington consensus pols in the street and nobody would care.

    ‘Threatened Marie Yovanovitch’ – He did what any other president would have done. State dept ghoul, who cares?

    ‘Ruined impeachment’ – ?

    ‘Commuted sentences’ – ! But which ones Simpsons writers?

    ‘Pulled the US out of climate agreement’ – Probably popular around here but I’ll give them that, that was an unnecessary action. But the subsequent ‘March for Science’ just reinforced the political tribalism around the issue.

    And with all his faults, why then has somebody without his problems taken up the gauntlet on an issue he has been given total monopoly on? That’s what this is all about and that’s why all the attacks on Trump don’t seem to work. Because that’s not the issue we’re debating and there is no alternative to him.

  18. The fact that “shooting the leg” and “shooting out the tires” are even seriously thought of as alternatives just shows how ignorant people are of firearms.

    I think people are as ignorant of firearms as they are of poker. In Casino Royale, the plot hinges on Bond winning (or, more exactly, the bad guy losing) one 10-person Texas Hold ‘Em poker tournament.

    The idea of the British Secret Service pinning their hopes on this is hilariously insane. Any good poker player would laugh. It’s like betting all your money on the outcome of one at-bat in a baseball game.There is no way any poker player can guarantee any outcome in a tournament. There’s far too much random chance. Poker is a game of playing very well over long periods of time to maximize your chance of winning when luck comes your way.

  19. It may be that a majority of American voters will decide that they want to live in the imaginary world of the leftist narrative, where cops can disarm crooks by shooting the weapons out of their hands, and Joe Biden is a wise elder statesman instead of a senile and crooked old fool, and black children can’t do math because their nice-white-lady teachers look at them funny, and…, and,…, and,…, ad infinitum.

    Like Ann Coulter says, our new country is gonna be great.

  20. Where will the leader emerge who merely states the obvious:

    “We do not have a problem with police in this country. We have a problem with black people who can’t behave civilized.”

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  21. BB753 says:
    @AnotherDad

    Shooting parents, who don’t want to have their eight year old kids “transioned”, in the legs would have made a better headline.

  22. Dissident says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I predicted in early March that the election would be determined by how well the electorate feels Trump handled the Coronavirus crisis.

    The more germane question, though, would be how much, if at all better any realistic alternative to Trump would handle it. Of those who castigate the President on this matter, is there a single one who was not at least complicit in promoting the very same attitudes and behavior before opportunistically doing the about-face that they did and accusing him of them?

    • Agree: throtler
  23. Joe has been expounding upon his “shoot them in the leg” reform for months on the campaign trail.

    Shoot-to-kill is for any active threat. You shoot them in the leg if you don’t have the resources to hold them as a prisoner, but you don’t want or need to actually kill them.

    When in doubt, channel your inner Jack Bauer, unless you have him on speed-dial.

  24. @syonredux

    I noticed that in that “Blazing Saddles” clip none of the cowboys who were supposedly getting ready to shoot had cocked their Colt Forty Four single action revolvers. Lawmen can’t always count on that kind of a break.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  25. I wonder if Biden was influenced by the Jack Ryan trial scene in the novel Patriot Games.

    Pretty sure that the prosecutor in the novel asked the Ryan character why he didn’t just shoot the guns out of the Irish terrorists’ hands to save the royals’ lives.

  26. @Altai

    One gets the sense that The Simpsons‘s hacks were all gung-ho about making up the list, and then actually tried to find examples and realized that vast majority of the things they were outraged about weren’t crimes and weren’t even reasons to get outraged, but they couldn’t back down, so they just started with word salad options.

  27. @Buffalo Joe

    Major arteries in both legs, plus large veins.

    This is actually a plot point in Tom Clancy’s The Hunt for Red October.

    The Red October’s Captain Ramius gets shot in the femoral artery by the KGB plant as he and the Jack Ryan character attempt to corner the plant in the forest of ballistic missile tubes.

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
  28. Good Lord, the man is a downright moron.

  29. Sean says:

    If you fire, how many times do you shoot them? There are many examples of people with a non-survivable wound going on to kill the person who shot them. Some rare people have kept on fighting after being shot through the head; supposing they have a shotgun? If someone waves a gun there should be SWAT and negotiators sent for, but if they point it or fire there is no solution but to instantly and unceremoniously shoot them dead.

    Anyway, 99.9% of those whose lives are shattered through by law enforcement–though they have committed no substantial crime–suffer that fate not through use of lethal force but through becoming felons, which means they cannot get a job, insurance, or live in a rented home for ever after. Their lives don’t matter is what Broken Windows policing is saying. The solution is more sensitive exercise of discretion (of the type that police have on a traffic stop to not write up someone who demonstrates the proper attitude) and ceasing to Bratton style police success on statistics, which leads to cops pressured into arresting people for minor infractions. For those who are addicts, greater use of support such as life coaching and drug court, where if you successfully complete the program you avoid becoming a felon.

    • Replies: @TWS
  30. Trinity says:

    Most humans have no idea what they will do in situation when someone attacks them out of nowhere, the most common response is more than likely that person will freeze up, unless of course they are Joe ” I Kicked Corn Pops Ass” Biden. Smokin’ Joe, makes Dirty Harry look like a fairy, yo. Even the most trained and seasoned police officer is still a human being and humans are as unpredictable as it gets. Joltin’ Joe has no idea that the average “teen” or “thug life representin’ da hood gangsta” ain’t bout no “deescalate circumstances,” yo. Hell, have you ever tried to “deescalate” a situation with some obnoxious drunk? How many times did your deescalation tactics actually embolden the aggressive guy to become even more aggressive? You are dealing with fragile egos here, especially with men, and double especially with predatory criminals who see reasoning or backing off as a sign of weakness. Jivin’ Joe has LIVED THE SHELTERED LIFE OF POLITICIAN PRIVILEGE, probably the only Blacks that he has dealt with outside of the campaign trail was when he busy “kissing Barack Obama’s ass ” when he was VP, so I guess we have to give his senior moment a pass, AGAIN.

  31. usNthem says:

    Center mass, nothing else.

  32. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve come to really loathe Joe Biden. It took me awhile to figure out why, though, until I remembered the last politician I’ve despised this much: Bill DeBlasio, the Mayor of NYC. And I’ve hated DeBlasio for years, before he reached national infamy, and for the same reason as Biden: they’re both weak. They’re soft, weak, lazy men, glad-handing and back-slapping their way through life, never showing an ounce of grit or determination or courage or intelligence or any of the qualities we (used to) esteem in men.

    This isn’t a purely political thing either: whatever disagreements I had with Obama, say, or Hillary, there were things about them and their lives I could respect and even admire. With Biden, there’s nothing. He’s the dumb jock whose dad owned a car dealership. He’s the empty suit. The American left love to josh about the unearned arrogance of mediocre white men…has anybody ever exemplified that trope more than Joe Biden?

    In the fullness of time the whole country saw DeBlasio for what he was; I suspect that they will eventually see through Biden as well. How much political capital are the Dems willing to expend to defend him? I don’t think they’ll go so far as to actively look for reasons to get him out of office (as they did with Trump). But if some semi-credible #MeToo-type allegation comes along, will they circle the wagons to defend him, especially if removing him means they get President Kamala ahead of schedule? It will be interesting to see.

    • Agree: Bugg, Mr. Anon
  33. Lace says:

    Trump was interviewed by Maureen Dowd in 2015, as the campaign was beginning.

    I’d been noticing people making fun of Biden’s ‘shoot them in the leg’, so very few (and nobody else here yet) remembers that Trump told Dowd “Why can’t they shoot them in the leg?” and I’d thought it before myself, and Trump said that and also said he “didn’t like something about how Garner was handled”.

    Trump definitely said that, and you can search old Dowd columns in 2015 (or maybe it was early 2016, hard to remember) if you want proof.

    I don’t have any expertise in what police should do, but I’m not sure either Trump or Biden have any either. Of course, Trump hasn’t said that recently–maybe not anytime during his presidency–but this ought to go down as an idea that does come to people’s minds and it is in no way totally stupid. Or rather, sometimes it’s wrong, sometimes it may be best.

    • Replies: @sayless
    , @Hunsdon
  34. Our best defense against Biden is having him shoot lotsa blanks on mainstream media.

  35. Kylie says:
    @AnotherDad

    “I’m having trouble deciding which is dumber, Joe’s ‘shoot ’em in the leg’ or humoring and transitioning eight year old girls who want to be boys.”

    We’re spoiled for choice. aren’t we?

    We were taught in our conceal/carry class to fire our weapon only as a last resort and to shoot to kill when we do so. The left has no idea of how serious firearm safety really is. They act as if it’s a game, which helps to explain why they talk about giving up guns so easily.

  36. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Yeah, it was apparent back then that all these struggles over the 50-yard-line with Biden-Harris about abortion, taxes, SCOTUS, Russia Russia Russia, and the much-denounced-yet-oddly-popular “woke” religious festivals sweeping the land would never help Trump enough to win. “Law And Order” was corny the 2nd time he tweeted it. Nobody believes the push for Black immunity from law enforcement will reverse next year.

    But the Democrats have explicitly embraced totalitarian COVIDism. It has the hold of a suicide compact on right-thinking urban liberals. So, it was pretty clear Trump’s only chance to offer a clear alternative was to run against lockdown.

    Instead, he is doing his most soulful impersonation of the standard “jobs, economy, safety, security, chicken in every pot” politician routine. He might as well transition to being transwoman and gay-marry Mercedes Schlapp.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
  37. J.Ross says:

    Second amendment critics brainstorming self-defense alternatives are reliably the dumbest people in political discussion, so this isn’t even Biden here, it’s consistent with its fellow pipedreams of karate, allowing yourself to be robbed, and so on. And, imagining that maiming does incapicitate (because real attackers have kept coming despite worse injury than a leg shot), go on to imagine the lawsuits, the paydays, the lawfare crucifixion of gun owners as sadists. That said, Biden’s Mercy has already been field tested with Bidenesque success.
    https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/pregnant-woman-shot-in-the-leg-during-road-rage-dispute-roseville-police-say

    • Replies: @Ganderson
  38. George says:

    1,700 Youths in Gaza Face Amputation Due to Israeli Sniper Violence
    https://truthout.org/articles/foreign-aid-that-costs-an-arm-and-a-leg-literally/

    Dueling bumper stickers

    Biden: Shoot’em in the leg
    Trump: Grab’em by the …

    • Replies: @Jack D
  39. @syonredux

    “I shoot with this hand.”:

    • LOL: Trinity
  40. Trinity says:

    Can you believe this dumb ass will actually have nimrods voting for him???

    IF this POS is actually SELECTED and/or elected ( IF our votes still count) everyone and their dog knows he will quickly $tep down and then turnover the Presidency to Caramel Harris. Jivin’ Joe, man, dat my man, cuz. He keepin’ it “reel,” yo.

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    , @Bugg
  41. Sean says:

    General Spalding @robert_spalding Oct 15
    Maybe they can donate it to some of the communities that have been destroyed by decades of stupid policies.
    Quote Tweet

    Breaking911
    @Breaking911
    · Oct 15
    JUST IN: The Biden campaign says they raised $383 Million in September & now have $432 Million in the bank

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  42. @Paleo Liberal

    I predicted in early March that the election would be determined by how well the electorate feels Trump handled the Coronavirus crisis.

    As if it were his job. Why knock him for playing “Leave it to Evers” when the Constitution tells him to do just that? Except for the part about keeping Wuhanites out.

    However, what with the Constitutional illiteracy abroad in the land, you may just be right.

    This should really be called the William Goldman flu:

  43. El Dato says:

    Why not us a lightsaber?

    An elegant weapon for more civilized times!

    Like that old guy did in the diversity-enhanced cantina when corn pop guy came on to junior.

    OT: COVID Bondage & Discipline, “Whip me to make me Good” liberal mind direct to paper:

    Shut up, spoilt Londoners! The Covid lockdown should be stricter still, so stop complaining and get on with it

    The biggest city in Western Europe is set to face a tightening of restrictions, and millions are disgruntled, but they have no right to be. If anything, the clampdown should be harder, to save more lives.

    HARDER! Increase production in the War on Death!

    Everything always seems bigger and better in London, even if isn’t, and the bedlam raised by the new lockdown restrictions in the UK capital proves it.

    There are three alert levels in England; medium, high and very high. From midnight Friday, London joins Tier 2. Mayor Sadiq Khan explained there was “simply no other option”.

    Set everything to VERY HIGH.

    The rules and regulations for each tier can be confusing, but the major restrictions facing nine million Londoners are to mix with only six people outdoors. They can’t mix with anyone except their household indoors, including in other homes, or in pubs or restaurants, which must close by 10pm. They’re also advised to avoid making any journeys, so are expected to stay home when possible. That’s it. So, why all the complaining?

    That’s why the capital should already be in Tier 3.

    That’s the spirit!

    It’s been revealed that 250,000 jobs in the sector are in jeopardy, with pub chain Marston’s already having cut 2,150. The negative effect on businesses that rely on physical customers, as opposed to online sales, is palpable. Obviously, this is bad, and these people should be supported, but, with all due respect, when lives are at stake, who gives a damn? Preventing deaths must take precedence over preserving jobs.

    Totally.

    There’s no vaccine, even though the medical profession is trying its damnedest to create one, but until then, there’s no way to stop the spread.

    Russia doesn’t exist.

    • Replies: @znon
  44. Lot says:

    A car can still be controlled and get away with a flat tire, just not well.

    Then there are the “run flats.”

  45. epebble says:
    @Kylie

    “Never do an enemy a small injury.” Sayeth a Great Man from XVI Century.

    • Agree: Kylie
  46. El Dato says:
    @syonredux

    You know that movie be racist

  47. @AnotherDad

    Dumber isn’t the metric. evil is.

    The latter wins by a mile.

  48. @Altai

    The worst was “Did not attend any White House Correspondents Dinners”

    There was a time when, if I saw something like that on The Simpsons, I would have been sure they were joking

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
  49. JimB says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Oh, and last thought, sigh, can’t use dogs on blacks.

    How about using a trained black panther. It can chase the Black suspect around a tree until he turns into melted butter for pancakes.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  50. Muggles says:

    As anyone who has ever shot a pistol knows, hitting anything at all past about 12 feet takes two hands, a good stance and concentration.

    Center mass is hard enough. Amazing how many “gun fights” with pistols have dozens of rounds fired, often by trained law enforcement, with almost no one (or no one) actually getting hit.

    Let’s take Biden to the range and see how he does with a silhouette target. He has five seconds to make a hit before he’s theoretically dead.

  51. Jesse says:

    (1) Femoral artery.

    (2) The thigh bone, under immense pressure, shatters, sending bone fragments everywhere.

    (3) Harder to hit, especially when moving and in a high pressure situation. You risk hitting bystanders.

    (4) Risk of overpenetration, which means you risk hitting bystanders.

    (5) Legally, even leaving all the above aside, if it’s not a situation that calls for deadly force, why are you shooting at all? It’s like warning shots or brandishing a gun to scare someone off (for civilians). If you didn’t feel the situation called for shooting to kill, then it can’t have been that serious and you face prosecution.

  52. Anonymous[128] • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.police1.com/use-of-force/articles/shooting-center-mass-im-told-we-kill-everyone-z02sv5zP5OCCcKZt/

    In the Czech Republic they shoot the legs in some circumstances.

    But it takes a lot of courage to make this an election issue. Ordinarily it would get laughed at due to US culture, but with BLM maybe, maybe it would get support but I’m doubtful, would need focus group testing for sure. If you could unwind 20 years on Bill Clinton and place him in 2020 on the presidential ticket, would he be arguing for shooting the legs?

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  53. @Kylie

    Yes that’s a good point. Gun proponents and gun permit courses stress that using a firearm is a last resort. One might insulted or humiliated, but the use of the firearm is only reserved for a threat to one’s safety. But when one’s safety is threatened the carrying of that firearm is a basic right, one that only the bluest of blue socialist republics have been able to abridge through electoral processes.

    It isn’t a game. But those who only see guns in Marvel movies and rap videos don’t know that, they only know what looks and sounds scary to them.

  54. Anonymous[226] • Disclaimer says:

    Related topic:

    DID TRUMP EVER REALLY FIRE BANNON?!

    Sure he was supposedly fired dismissed and kicked to the curb. But Steve Bannon might have been Trump’s real top 2020 campaign advisor the whole time.

    End of Warroom podcast today first hour lady guest starts talking about microphone sabotage of Trump by the networks.

    Bannon starts laughing and says “He (Trump) is gonna watch the show tonight…” —– this happens at 46 minutes in (3 minutes left) Episode 441 —– then Bannon continues “…Trump listens religiously to the first hour (of this show)…”

    https://pandemic.warroom.org/podcast/

    Hmmm… OK so we know Bannon has a big ego. Maybe he’s just doing some self promotion here.

    But quick: Name the 2020 Trump campaign manager. Hello? Can you name the person supposedly running Trump’s 2020 campaign?

    It wasn’t hard to name the managers in 2016. Could it be the same guys calling the shots this time? Lewandowski and Bannon… just doing it covertly this time…

  55. @Paleo Liberal

    Maybe. If you’re right I guess you can crow all you want. I think these things are usually clearer in hindsight: we could see in 2008 that Bush’s neoconservative wars killed his party’s chances, but it was not obvious in 2004.

    I find rather tedious the people in any forum who spend time documenting the rightness of their prognostications. The most intelligent people I’ve found have a natural curiosity that tends to transcend the need to prove themselves right. And more often than not they wind up being right.

  56. Anonymous[264] • Disclaimer says:

    Most empires do not last longer than roughly 250 years. America is 244-years old.

    Sir John Glubb was a British author and lecturer, who was decorated for his service in the Royal Engineers in WWI, and was commander of the Jordan Arab Legion from 1939 to 1956. His famous and succinct essay, The Fate of Empires and Search for Survival (PDF), looks at the lifespan of empires from their origins to their eventual decline.

    Glubb estimates that most empires do not last longer than roughly 250 years, with many of them lasting much shorter periods of time. He describes many of the stages of empire, and many of the reasons why they break down and eventually disappear.

    As seen in Glubb’s image above, most of the world’s great empires lasted no longer than 250 years. Glubb looks at the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire as two different empires, based upon their distinct forms of government.

    One of the reasons for decline of empire described by Glubb is the influx of masses of people from outside cultures, religions, and ethnic groups, who are different from the core populations making up the founders and conquering peoples who brought about the original empire.

    https://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-life-span-of-empires-250-years.html

  57. Mike Tre says:

    Who can forget Joe’s advice on home defense? At least he’s consistent with his ridiculous assertions.

  58. Anonymous[226] • Disclaimer says:

    Joe Biden is going to lose. Guaranteed.

    If you look at historical election precedents Biden would have to defy many of them to get elected. One precedent is that very long term senators don’t ever get elected potus.

    Biden ran twice before for potus and bombed out of the primaries both times. This led to directly to him spending his career in the senate. Remember the old saw: all senators want to be potus.

    So we know most all long term senators are guys with failed potus ambitions. They. Are. Failures.

    So here we have dopey Joe babbling about shooting perps in the leg. This is the kind of crap that prevented him from getting out of the primaries in the past. He’s a foolish loser who needs everything to be rigged in his favor. And still the voters can sniff out his low quality. Nothing’s changed after all these years.

    This the kind of historical precedent that Biden must overcome to win the election but he can’t do it.

    Do not bet your rent money on this guy winning the election. He’s much weaker than McCain Kerry Gore Dole etc. These dopey loser senators need most of all to run against other dopey senators in the general election! That’s the real key to a senator becoming president.

    (And sorry the VP resume filler doesn’t take the stink off a senator)

  59. El Dato says:

    OT:

    So I hear you bought a Sony? Turns out it was actually a Stasi.

    Cancel culture invited to PlayStation: Sony enables RECORDING of game chats & lets players TATTLE on each other for hate speech

    A software update launched this week for the PlayStation 4 video-game system included an alert, warning users that “voice chats may be recorded for moderation” and that “by joining, you agree to being recorded.” A separate “safety” notice explained that gamers would be able to send recordings of chat conversations to Sony when alleged violations of the “community code of conduct” occur.

    One gaming enthusiast said the threat of being banned is a powerful means of control: “losing your entire game library as a means to keep you in line.”

    I would like to see that tested in a court of law. Tort lawyers, to your word processors!

    The software update was rolled out just a few months after Sony made PlayStation the first video-game platform to join with the Anti-Defamation League in a boycott campaign to pressure Facebook to ramp up its censorship of allegedly hateful speech. PlayStation’s advertising and other activity on Facebook and Instagram was suspended throughout July.

  60. @Muggles

    Muggles is absolutely right here. And there are other reasons besides, why ‘shooting in the leg’ is a ridiculous suggestion against an armed assailant. The average cop today is often a very bad, unpracticed shot, and hence their awful ‘spray and pray’ syndrome of firing out dozens of bullets, sometimes not hitting anyone, or hitting some bystanders.

    In perhaps the USA’s most spectacular street gunfight, the North Hollywood shoout-out of 28 February 1997, two drugged-up, geared-up bank robbers – inspired by the film ‘Heat’ – held something like about 30 police officers at bay for a 44-minute gunfight in which about 1,700 rounds were fired by both sides.

    Whereas an average person might be stunned and collapse like a sack of potatoes after being shot anywhere, a drug-crazed felon is damn hard to put down, even with shots in the chest, and hence the focus on powerful ammunition that will shock the person enough, after perhaps going through heavy clothing as well.

    Experienced gunfight advice is clear – if you have only one assailant, two shots to the chest and then one to the head, as best you can. ‘Take your time, but FAST!’ The late New York City Stakeout Squad legend Jim Cirillo, killed at least 11 men in 20 gunfights, in one case putting down 3 armed men with just his small revolver, Cirillo firing his three rounds before any of the robbers got their brain in enough gear to shoot back.
    https://www.tactical-life.com/combat-handguns/lessons-from-the-stakeout-squad/

    A not-badly-done cinema shooting scene, capturing how your quick action can take down a guy pointing a gun at you before he can react – and also how LOUD street shooting is when you’re near it – is the Tom Cruise scene in Collateral where he gets his briefcase back … just epic, with a hilariously cocky Tom Cruise confronting the pair of hoods, 2 minutes

    • Replies: @LittleNano
    , @Lurker
    , @El Dato
  61. Anon[345] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Shots to the hip girdle area are so deadly Marines are trained to aim there in lieu of the head or upper chest. And the legs themselves are a small target obscured by clothing that will either not incapacitate a shooter or kill him anyway. Pistol shots to the thorax are surprisingly survivable. Not that you would expect Joe Biden to know that I guess.

    • Thanks: fnn
  62. Dr. Doom says:

    Stupid Joe also said to shoot a shotgun through your front door or in the air.

    I don’t want this stupid senile retard ANYWHERE NEAR THE FOOTBALL.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  63. @Muggles

    Amazing how many “gun fights” with pistols have dozens of rounds fired, often by trained law enforcement

    Why one cop now carries 145 rounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdjcYjSsIok

    This officer seems to be a decent shot. I think most would agree with his reasoning for so many rounds after the description of the gun battle in the video.

  64. We need phasers, set on stun.

  65. OT:

    GOPers are starting to find some nads:

    “This hypothetical case about the hypothetical VP and his hypothetical son may hypothetically come before you…totally hypothetically, of course…”

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk, Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Dieter Kief
  66. Thomas says:

    Joe has been expounding upon his “shoot them in the leg” reform for months on the campaign trail. Does it focus group well? Has nobody asked him about how it is supposed to work in the real world? And how would an announced police policy of Don’t Shoot to Kill de-escalate circumstances? Wouldn’t it incentivize crooks to try their luck charging the cops?

    It seems pretty clear the media is no more interested in digging into Biden’s various goofy ramblings than you or I would be when a senile relative says something odd. Probably for the same reason as well: it doesn’t matter. As long as he gets rid of Trump and then gets replaced by Mama Kamala, all will be as it should be.

    Incidentally, Biden hasn’t been shy about sharing his tactical expertise in the past on the subject of guns. One previous nugget of self-defense advice in the event of a break-in that he once dispensed is to do the same thing that Breonna Taylor’s boyfriend did that got her killed. (Also incidentally violates the 4th rule of gun safety.)

    Biden Advises Shooting Shotgun Through Door | US News https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/02/28/biden-advises-shooting-shotgun-through-door

  67. If Sean keeps going on like this, I’ll soon forgive Yoko for everything. She produced him. That’s enough.

    Yoko will turn 90 during this next presidential term. I bet she’s more coherent than Joe.

  68. @Thomas

    Incidentally, Biden hasn’t been shy about sharing his tactical expertise in the past on the subject of guns.

    I’d rather hear it from Bob Dole. Or even Jackie Speier, who has more combat experience than Joe has.

  69. TWS says:

    You cannot shoot guns out of the hand. If you want to stop a car shoot the driver.

    Biden has learned nothing and forgotten everything.

  70. Monster says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    11-27-2007

    Washington Redskins safety Sean Taylor dies a day after he was shot in the leg after an apparent break-in at his home. He never regained consciousness after losing a great deal of blood. Taylor was 24.

    • Agree: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  71. Anonymous[657] • Disclaimer says:

    Have you seen those skinny little sticks Joe teeters around on? That’s what this is about; it would be impossible to shoot Joe under these rules of engagement.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  72. Dr. X says:

    “Shoot ’em in the leg” had been a meme among Democrats trolling for the votes of black criminals and their families for some time. It’s an attempt to appease the “He dindu nuffin, he be a good boy, why dem po-leece hadda shoot ‘im?” crowd.

    David Paterson proposed “shoot ’em in the leg” legislation in New York way back in 2006, as a blind Senator representing a black district in the Bronx. It never became law when he became governor and his party held both houses of the state legislature, though.

    Sometimes it’s hard to tell if the pols proposing this are just pandering or if they really are that stupid. Historically, it’s pretty obvious that they were just pandering. But in the day and age of “defund the police,” it may be the latter.

    The acid test is to dare them to disarm the police, starting with their own security detail. If they really believe that the police are nothing more than crypto-Klansmen out hunting innocent Negroes every shift, why should cops have guns at all?

  73. Sean says:
    @Thomas

    The door came off its hinges, then Mr Walker fired, so it was (luckily for the police if you have ever seen the effect of a 12 gauge on a human face) not through the door with a shotgun as Biden advised. However, I consider it enlightening about Biden’s mindset: he will not willingly leave the White House and the difficulty of making him do so is being greatly underestimated. What he is going to do as a duly elected president none can say because there will have to be a decent interval before his unfitness is publicly raised and that leeway can be used for anything by him. President Biden will be vastly more dangerous than Trump was, especially in the first several months before the armed forces are quietly told not to obey him a la Kissinger to SAC about Nixon.

    • Replies: @Che Blutarsky
  74. Why didn’t Joe just tell the cop to drop the gun and say “C’mon man! Look! We don’t need any malarkey! Why don’t we settle this with a push-up contest! ”

    How Joe lacks the self-awareness to know that, if this actually worked and was a good idea, it would already be the working policy of departments around the world, and that no one ever thought of it before we had some old fool with dementia mention it; is beyond me.

  75. @Muggles

    “Center mass is hard enough.”

    Especially when the mass is in motion.

  76. @Anonymous

    “little sticks Joe”

    Thanks for that.

  77. Rob Lee says:

    I’ve been around law enforcement firearms training – mainly as a first responder – for a few years, and shooting at both limbs (as a way of disabling the assailant) and vehicle tires (or any other part of the vehicle, really) is pure Hollywood nonsense.

    You only need three main organs to continue fighting when the ‘flight or fight’ adrenaline kicks in (indeed to survive at all – ask any quad amputee), and those are the brain, heart and lungs. When the fight starts in earnest, all the blood draws in from your extremities to protect those three vital organs, which is why your hands and feet tingle when you’re under extreme stress. Ever been in a real fistfight and felt like you had hot iron in your belly and were floating on numb legs? That’s the effect at work. But to the point the blood leaves your arms and legs to concentrate in your torso and protect your vitals. I’ve seen some gunshot victims with clean, bloodless holes in their hands and forearms not realize they were shot until the blood started to recirculate, post incident (at which point it spurts). That’s why EMTs cut away all clothing in a shooting incident – to look for holes that haven’t cleanly penetrated (exit wounds) or that haven’t started leaking yet. Tactically, shooting in the arms and legs wastes time, ammunition and raises the possibility that the round will pass through and fly unimpeded downrange… kids down the street on the playground and all that.

    Limbs move fast, your torso moves slowly. Remember your football coach yelling at you to tackle at the hips, not down at the legs… same principle. Training cops to shoot at limbs will plunge their hit probability down in to gangster territory, flying willy-nilly. That’s precisely the opposite of where I think all of you want police bullets to go. Into bad guy, not into thin apartment wall.

    Interestingly enough, lots of people do get shot in the hands and forearms ‘unintentionally,’ as untrained or poorly trained shooters will tend to panic and shoot at the threat – which in their mind is the opponent’s firearm. The end of that barrel can look a mile wide when pointed at you! so they shoot at the other gun and hit the hand that holds it. But again, not on purpose. That’s ‘in the black’ panic mode; not a good place to be.

    Even center mass hits can take awhile to down a suspect if they’ve made the decision to just not quit. Stories abound of people taking half a dozen rounds and continuing to fight – even to go on and disarm and shoot the officer with her own firearm – only to expire later on when their own holes start to leak. Heavy clothing plays a big factor as penetration is lessened. So does ‘will to win’ and ‘I’m not going back to jail under any circumstances.’ Adrenaline is an amazing drug, capable of wonders. You may not believe this, as Hollywood says otherwise, but for shooters with little or poor training, small caliber handguns are not really that effective in stopping people. Also, as Steve alludes to from time to time, medical technology really has improved to the point where some people who would have died in an earlier age now walk away with manageable after effects.

    At least as far as I have witnessed the actual ‘decision to shoot training,’ no one (at least on the non-military, non-sniper federal level) is ever trained to “shoot to kill.” You’re trained to shoot to stop the assailant from doing whatever it is they were doing to raise the incident to deadly force. You have to justify every round, so you better have a good reason to let fly. To be most effective, you shoot center mass, as that’s the largest target on the human body with the obvious highest potential for heart and lung damage. Another Hollywood myth is drilling several rounds perfectly into one space. You don’t shoot ten rounds into one hole. Shooting a human is not like target shooting. Professionals will spread their rounds around the torso for maximum organ damage and internal leakage.

    The feds I work with only draw their firearms in defense of their life, their partner or an innocent third party. They do not draw their firearms until it is the absolute last card to play, because if you pull out your firearm only to threaten, and then fail to fire, you’ve just laid down your last card without the intent of using it, and the bad guy might call your bluff (probably by wrestling it from you and killing you with it). Many agencies have gone away from the gradual escalation model (verbal, ‘hands-on,’ non-lethal, lethal), as it’s finally been realized and accepted in the ‘train as you fight’ world that a bad guy can go from verbal to lethal in seconds. Too many cops were getting hurt when the bad guy went from ‘Eff You’ to gun fight, while the cop was still thinking “arm bar then baton.” Now it’s stay well ahead of your opponent, so words to bullets in the space of even a few seconds can make perfect sense, given the scenario. Again, justification is the key. I’ve never heard a competent officer use the “I was afraid for my life” nonsense. Articulable factors have to pile one atop another until even the most ACAB juror understands that there simply was no other choice.

    Shooting a vehicle? Nope. Tell a professional hunter that you’re going elk hunting with a handgun. They’ll think you’re crazy. It’s simply physics. Tonnage on the move is not going to be effected by a fingernail-sized chunk of iron. Even if you do manage to get the tire, the car will travel for quite some time before a deflation is even detected by the driver. What’s more, the car is not the threat as much as the person using the car as a weapon is the true threat. Shoot the driver. Just do it from the side if it’s moving, not from the front through the windshield… otherwise you’re already under the bumper.

    The very best method of disabling a vehicle is what smart cops do… if you think you’re going to have problems with a car on the move, carry a stop-stick and slide it in front of the driver’s side rear wheel on approach before moving up to speak to the driver. Better yet have your partner do the same on the passenger side as well. No constitutional violation at all by sliding a stop-stick in front of a car tire. It’s easily removed if you conclude the encounter and let the individual drive away. No bullets, but still gets you a flat tire when the suspect tries to roll away. (For those of you who don’t know, a stop-stick is about two feet long and has three sides – filled with hollow spikes to puncture a tire and release the air in a controlled manner if run over.)

    Sorry for the wall of text. I get frustrated when I still see this discussed as a potential way to ‘avoid’ deadly force encounters. If a law enforcement officer has pulled out his gun, it’s a sign that things have gone terribly wrong, and it’s at that point that the officer has already decided that he, not the other guy, is the one going home to his family. I don’t know any officer who actually wants to shoot someone. This board is full of intelligent people, so honestly ask yourself this: do you really think that a cop actually wants to be in a jury dock fighting for his career, life and family, or would he rather be sitting in his squad car, sipping a Jamba juice and watching the bikini-clad skate girls on the boardwalk?

    (I get equally frustrated when I hear people ‘cock a Glock’ in the movies. It’s so annoying. There’s no external hammer to cock… THEY DON’T DO THAT! It’s why my wife won’t watch cops shows with me anymore.)

  78. This is mildly OT but the MSM are refusing to cover the ongoing memory dumps of Hunter Biden’s computer. The sourcing is solid. There is a convincing trail that links Biden and the computer. Furthermore, there are photos and videos of Hunter Biden in the memory dumps that are extremely unlikely to have come from any other source but one of Biden’s personal computers. The newspaper that scooped this story, the New York Post, although it is published in a tabloid format, is also a reputable newspaper, one of the oldest in the country and founded by Alexander Hamilton.

    But readers can judge for themselves. A search on “new york post hunter biden emails” will link to the original articles like this one https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/emails-reveal-how-hunter-biden-tried-to-cash-in-big-with-chinese-firm/ and other material. Note that Google and related search engines bury the original material in a flood of sites providing rather pathetic attempts at debunking. If this story involved Trump and one of his sons it would be getting 24/7 coverage instead – crickets.

    The material is damning. It appears that the Biden family were essentially a corrupt criminal enterprise, using Joe Senior’s government positions to extort lucrative “contracts with Russia, Ukraine, and China for the old man’s sons. The sons then fed back laundered money to the father and other family members. Beyond this Hunter Biden is revealed as a crack addict with involvement of some sort in sex trafficking, although perhaps only as a customer. Rudy Giuliani, who has a copy of the memory dump has hinted that it contains evidence of pedophilia.

    It behooves anyone with any interest in fighting MSM, tech corporate, and deep state censorship to increase public awareness of this material’s existence and to publicly hammer mainstream news organizations and social media until they cover this in an unbiased way as an important piece of news in the run-up to this year’s presidential election.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin, Bert
    • Thanks: Trinity
  79. Dr. X says:

    By the way, I could imagine a policy of shooting out tires on getaway cars might be worth considering.

    That’s a non-starter. Tires on a moving vehicle are almost impossible to hit, and, even if they were hit, they wouldn’t disable the vehicle in a timely fashion — if at all.

    There have been plenty of police chases in which the pursued is still motoring along on four flats with sparks flying off the steel rims grinding on the pavement, and cops still can’t stop the vehicle without resorting to the PIT (Pursuit Intervention Technique) maneuver, which is basically ramming the vehicle with a squad car.

    Firearms are not instant death rays like they are portrayed in Hollywood movies. They are frequently ineffective against soft human targets, and VERY ineffective against motor vehicles in most cases.

    I have never killed a human being, but I have killed over 20 deer with a variety of weapons from a .223 rifle to 12 gauge shotgun, and it is never 100% certain how that animal will die. I have seen deer drop on the spot stone dead, and I have seen deer shot right through the heart run 100 yards at top speed before dying.

    The only certain way to instantly disable a mammal with a firearm is to directly hit the central nervous system, i.e., the brain or spine. That’s rare. Most gunshot kills on mammals occur after the heart/lung region is damaged and oxygenated blood no longer flows to the brain. This is often relatively quick (a minute or less) but far from instant.

  80. @Anonymous

    The US didn’t really get into the Empire business until 1898.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
  81. @Rob Lee

    Thanks, I will add this to the Biden post.

  82. slumber_j says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Whether you turn out to be right about that or not, the press clearly agree with you: hence the way it’s been reported. We shall see.

  83. Anon[280] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve … [exasperated look] … shooting out tires is something they did on cop shows in 1965. It doesn’t work, as we know from drive cameras, and helicopter and smart phone video in 2020. You can often go a long, long … long way in a car with a flat tire. And do bullets even flatten a modern tire? Given the size of nails that have been plyered out of my slightly low tires by mechanics, I’m not sure.

    This whole area raises a question I have, the “you have a second to decide” area of “A mob [or a group of young black males] is surrounding your car and banging on your windows. Their shoes look like they would be good for head kicking, and they have crowbars What do you do?”

    This trolley car problem should have the same answer as in the gun situation: You should be able to “drive until you neutralize.” This should be legal and you should not be subject to prosecution or legal harassment. Standing in front of a car should remove any rights a person has.

    You have to decide, in a second:

    — Do things work like they do on TV, or not?

    — How hard is it to puncture tires? Can you drive very far on punctured tires, or just far enough to enrage the mob more when they catch up with you?

    — How fast does a driver-side window break? Do you have time to keep your hands on the wheel and press the accellerator before the hands come in and start to pull you out?

    — If I back up will I be able to swing around like Rockford does, or is that a skill I don’t have that in my case would result in an upside-down, immovable car and a mob reaching at me through the windows?

    You shouldn’t have to ask and come to correct answers to questions like this, and you shouldn’t have to compromise on getting traumatic brain injury to spare the life of a “protester” whose own choice put him in front of your car.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  84. @Sean

    Sean, I think that matches what Hunter has in the bank.

  85. @Anonymous

    Back in the early 1970s I read an editorial by John Campbell, arguing the historical evidence suggests that true democracies have a shelf life of about a century. Campbell went on to argue that the federal government only became democratic with the direct election of US Senators. I’d suggest that a more reasonable starting point might be the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which extended the franchise to most adult citizens. In any case, if Campbell was right, democracy in the USA has already passed or will soon reach its expiration date.

  86. @brabantian

    Experienced gunfight advice is clear – if you have only one assailant, two shots to the chest and then one to the head, as best you can.

    If you’re Ed Cantrell you can skip the two to the chest and save em for next time.

    https://www.encyclopedia.com/law/law-magazines/ed-cantrell-trial-1979

  87. @Anonymous

    TwoSevenSeven, take a break from hating on DiBlasio and Biden and focus on cuomo.

  88. Gordo says:

    Yeah, Slow Joe gonna order his SS detail not to fire a lethal shot, legs and arms only, bull.

  89. BenKenobi says:
    @Barack Obama's secret Unz account

    The Simpsons canonically ended on Feb 13, 2000 with the death of Maude Flanders.

    • Agree: Corn
  90. @JimB

    JimB, somewhere on my book shelves is a Little Black Sambo book. Read it out loud in Catholic grammar school while sitting Indian style on the floor.

  91. @Trinity

    I have long thought this the perfect song for the Biden campaign:

    • Agree: Trinity
    • Replies: @Pericles
  92. Rooster10 says:

    I think this comment by Biden points to a bigger problem: we now have Police Oversight Committees all over the country, entirely comprised of people who have never been a Police Officer themselves. Not only have they never served in the role of a Police Officer, they never served in the military, security guard, or even a mall cop! They’ve never been in a street fight, they have no weapons training, and their perception of reality is extremely distorted.

    These are the people trying to set Policing policies across the Nation. No wonder we’re so F’d up. You can find examples of people in similar roles all throughout the government; people setting policy for something they have no clue about! If I didn’t know any better, I’d say they’re doing it on purpose to destroy our country one committee at a time…

    • Agree: Bugg, Voltarde, sayless
  93. El Dato says:
    @Anonymous

    Don’t forget we are running on Internet Time now (which covers faster money printing, faster resource consumption, faster dummyfication, faster riling up of foreign enemies, faster feedback loop of all kind), so there is a correction factor involved. Probably already reached 300+.

  94. WJ says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    So we will get the mentally ill Biden. Corn Pop, “I saw two many kissing in the street and Dad said “they just love each other”, Neil Kinnock and on and on. This most embarrassing candidate in the history of the Democratic Party is fading and will fade more in the next two weeks. You will likely be disappointed in several weeks.

  95. A friend of mind was recently shot during a home invasion as he attempted to protect his wife from at the very least a beat-down. This is real life. The gunshot wound was superficial — thanks again for poor ghetto shooting skills — but WTF. In many ways it’s more dangerous in the US than an overseas deployment.

  96. @Sean

    If they decide it’s time for Poor Old White Joe to go, all they have to do is find the right person to cough on him.

  97. Shooting at the car, or shooting the perp in the leg. It could work, but I guess it would all come down to, whether the person was feeling lucky that day. And of course you do have to feel lucky.

    • LOL: Trinity
  98. Jack D says:
    @George

    Yes, the truth is out with those people.

    The “peaceful demonstrators” are “demonstrating” for ” the right to return to the homes Israel displaced them from”.

    Unless these demonstrators are over 70, that’s impossible. Maybe their grandpa or great grandpa was displaced, but the weren’t. At some point you have to accept reality and move on, as the Germans of Königsberg moved on with their lives, decade ago. The homes (shacks really) from which they were displaced were leveled decades ago and are now occupied by modern office parks and subdivisions and shopping malls, etc. They are like the Ghost Dancers who thought they were bulletproof – their response to defeat is psychotic.

    Hamas has squads waiting who would rush in in the event of a successful mob crossing and try to kidnap an Israeli soldier – that’s what their insane tactic is really about. An Israeli hostage can be traded for thousands of Hamas prisoners. Hamas is willing to sacrifice an unlimited # of their young people in order to get their imprisoned terrorist leaders back.

    1,700 Youths in Gaza “Face” Amputation but when you read the article the number of actual amputations is less than 200.

  99. Neoconned says:
    @AUSA(ret)

    At this point his intelligence and competence aren’t even an issue.

    Its quite simply ABBT…..ANYBODY BUT TRUMP

    To these people a log or a brick or a cat is preferable to Trump. He threatens the end of their various ethnic racketeering enterprises….

  100. This kind of fictional thinking is what happens when your engagement with the harsh realities of life and death are experienced through the mediation of screens and carefully constructed and satisfactorily resolved (good guy wins) scripts.

  101. anon[152] • Disclaimer says:

    C’mon, man! This is just more of the same stuff old Joe has been blurting out for years and years. He was one of the sponsors of the 1994 anti crime bill; both a ban on ugly guns and the Violence Against Women Act were included, along with “100,000 new cops” that was really just talk-talk. It’s not really real, it’s just words that hold a place in the air so we can all go out behind the gym and have a pushup contest!

    That shotgun blurt has to be at least 20 – 25 years old, you dog faced pony soldiers, so he’s just repeating previous speeches from his older campaigns in his current Senate race. What’s the problem with that, you want him to show you the chain he was gonna use on Corn Pop? How about arm wrestling?

    But seriously folks, don’t be surprised if Joe Biden winds up in a hospital some time in the next 12 months, regardless of how the election turns out. Whatever meds he’s on are likely pretty heavy duty. The DNCe is engaging in elder abuse with this campaign.

    • Agree: El Dato
  102. @Thomas

    So moronic. If I shot through my front door, I’d probably kill my neighbor across the hall, or the guy and his kid in the apartment behind that.

    How about don’t be a ghetto whore with ghetto thug associates? I’ve been using that approach for several decades and so far no cops have felt it necessary to break down my door.

    Once again everyone focuses on the ultimate fatal confrontation instead of all the bad choices that lead to it.

  103. sayless says:
    @Lace

    Eric Garner wasn’t dangerous, shooting him would have been insane. He was just selling loose cigarettes. He got into trouble with the police because he wouldn’t cooperate with them. Stupid.

    • Agree: Lace
    • Replies: @Lace
  104. @Anonymous

    He’s not even really a jock though. He’s the legacy admit to a frat throwing out beers in the hope that he can rope you into a conversation.

    Say what you want about W but he was a Pike at Yale and by all accounts pretty much the life of the party- basically Biden is a failed W.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  105. Anon[101] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    I saw this on retweeted on Steve’s Twitter timeline:

    Having read the stereotypes about the WNBA, I immediately asked myself, is Sue a lesbian. Googling …

    Sue Bird Confirms She’s Gay, Dating Soccer Star Megan Rapinoe

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sue-bird-confirms-shes-gay-dating-soccer-star-megan_b_59711cd2e4b0545a5c30feb5

    World Cup star Megan Rapinoe and WNBA star Sue Bird are America’s ultimate sports power couple

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/world-cup-star-megan-rapinoe-wnba-star-sue-bird-are-ncna1027151

    • Replies: @El Dato
  106. Bugg says:
    @Trinity

    Suspect Doctor Jill Biden is not giving up the White house that easily. I hope that never comes to pass. But of it did, the whole 25th Amendment thing will break the fissures in the Dem party wide open.

    Other than 3 Name Guy – Lin-Manuel Miranda overlooking his garden with an ascot on his neck and a Zima in hand,-is there anything more ridiculous than people who are not medical doctors insisting you call them “doctor” based on some grad degree?

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @sayless
  107. Thomas says:
    @Jack D

    At some point you have to accept reality and move on, as the Germans of Königsberg moved on with their lives, decade ago. The homes (shacks really) from which they were displaced were leveled decades ago and are now occupied by modern office parks and subdivisions and shopping malls, etc.

    Well, the Zionists themselves held out to reclaim land their ancestors supposedly occupied nearly 2,000 years before. And their holiest site is the one remaining wall of a temple leveled by the Romans. Given that example, any irredentist can dare to dream.

    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @nebulafox
  108. Bugg says:

    Simple fact is in these split second high stress situations, cops generally are not great shots, no matter how much training they get . To think they could be trained for anything other than center of mass is idiotic. Any situation cops believe neutralizing a deadly threat by employing their sidearm is needed is going to involve stress and elevated adrenalin. Notwithstanding Hollywood and TV showing cops shooting bad guys every week (like “Bluebloods”), most cops in decades of service never take their pistols out of the holster. In this Dallas study, typically cops hit the threatening target less than 35%. And that’s an improvement. There are other studies form the 198os that were way worse.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/why-police-shoot-so-many-rounds-trnd/index.html

    • Replies: @Corn
  109. Assuming the perp is unarmed, I guess, and too stupid/stoned to run away when someone points a weapon at them.
    A leg is a smaller target than center body mass.
    Also requires the shooter to look down away from the target’s face and eyes and anything in their hands.
    They can keep limping towards you.

    Center Body Mass.

  110. TWS says:
    @Sean

    This isn’t Wyatt Earp days, you don’t get paid per arrest. A friendly citizen contact is just as much a contact as a ticket or other arrest.

    But good luck finding officers that want to make any kind of contact. I sure as hell wouldn’t.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Kratoklastes
  111. Anonymous[124] • Disclaimer says:

    https://dailycaller.com/2020/10/16/leave-the-country-trump-jokes-losing-to-biden/

    Of course, Trump isn’t running against Hidin’ Biden but against all the media, Wall Street, War State, medical establishment(that cooked up bogus covid hysteria), Big Tech, and etc.

    Problem with Trump is he flip flops but acts like Mr. Tough.
    Someone who goes zig zag but pretends to go resolutely straight is gonna be found out sooner or later.

    He should have found a middle ground on Covid. Instead, he went from A to Z while pretending to remain on same course.

  112. A childlike observation every bit as brilliant as “Why don’t they just make the entire airplane out of the same material as the black box?”

    Why don’t police aim for the legs? You could try, you know, asking them.

    Likewise, why do police restrain actively OD’ing people the way they did with George Floyd? You could try, you know, asking them.

    • Replies: @Charles St. Charles
  113. Yeah, right.

    Cops are just honeys.

    Some dumbass guy writes some crap saying how, I don’t know, something about how somehow your blood and your lungs make you shoot people in the chest.

    Very interesting. And so scientific.

    And also that proves how any old dumbass cowardly cop in the world gets to shoot any old unarmed people to death, any old unarmed people he feels like shooting, in the chest, any time he takes a hankering to.

    I am duly edified.

  114. The Carter administration tried to bring this philosophy to foreign policy! During the Iran hostage crisis.
    “When Beckwith stated his intention to ‘take the guards out,’ then–Deputy Secretary of State Warren Christopher piped up: ‘Will you shoot them in the shoulder, or what?’
    ‘No, sir, we are going to shoot each of them twice, right between the eyes,’ came the prompt answer.”
    https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/rough-men-standing-ready-mark-moyars-history-us-special-ops/

  115. @WowJustWow

    Likewise, why do police restrain actively OD’ing people the way they did with George Floyd? You could try, you know, asking them.

    Because asking questions leads to inconvenient answers.

  116. Hereward says:

    I remember reading that one of the more proficient Old West gun fighters actually shot the gun out of an opponent’s hand. When someone praised him for his skill, he admitted he was aiming for the fellow’s chest, and had hit the gun by accident.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  117. anon[316] • Disclaimer says:

    “Shoot them in the leg” seems real to women who live in a world of fantasy and feelings, i.e. Democrats.

  118. Anon7 says:

    Better yet, just don’t shoot at all.

    This is the argument offered this week by the black community in Detroit after a convenience store clerk shot a black man who was using a hammer to steal from a cash machine. The crowd argues that the clerk was behind bullet proof glass and was in no danger from the robber.

    “[The robber] didn’t deserve that. You shot my son down like a dog. And we the one’s that make you rich,” Lewis’ mother Emily Rippy said.

    The groups have one primary demand for the owner of the gas station.

    “You pay this family restitution and you pay for the homegoing of our brother,” Brent said

    .

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
  119. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:

    I think an important element that marks political weakness and erosion of power is when your party loses comedic initiative. Assorted YouTube influencers, as well as websites like the Babylon Bee are taking the comedic initiative on behalf of conservatives like never before, while the comedic voices of the left such as Colbert have become unapologetically hack, and has deteriorated as to be rendered effectively inert. When has a Colbert political vid ever in memory gone viral, except when used by conservatives to make him look like a pearl clutching stupid asshole?

    The Democratic Party lost its comedic edge, and is circling the power drain.

    Oh, and let’s not forget the scores of liberal political videos that unintentionally do the work for conservatives. There’s a LOT of them…

    • Agree: sayless
    • Thanks: Voltarde
  120. @AUSA(ret)

    I remember back in the late 60’s, a politician, possibly a big-city mayor said the cops should “shoot ’em in the legs.” He meant rioters. It might have been Chicago’s Mayor Daley.

    I bet that stuck in Biden’s (insofar as he has one) mind.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  121. Lace says:
    @sayless

    You may have meant that to follow what Trump told Dowd about his own idea of ‘shooting the leg’. I know Garner wasn’t shot, that was, I’m pretty sure, just in the same paragraph when he was talking to her, and I was actually surprised he said that about ‘shooting in the legs’. Definitely did.

  122. Anon[401] • Disclaimer says:

    We should be using the word “wing.”

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wing

    4a : to wound in the wing : disable the wing of: wing the duck
    b : to wound (as with a bullet) without killing: winged by a sniper

  123. Twinkie says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I’ve liked the cut of his jib from the beginning. I want him for president.

  124. George says:
    @Jack D

    The point I was making is that Biden’s idea was to amputate the legs of people.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  125. Twinkie says:
    @Rob Lee

    Overall, an excellent comment. Let me add a couple of comments:

    Even center mass hits can take awhile to down a suspect if they’ve made the decision to just not quit. Stories abound of people taking half a dozen rounds and continuing to fight

    As I have written in the past repeatedly, the ONLY reliable way of stopping a human being is severing the upper spinal cord (right at the base of the neck). But that’s a tough target to hit on a moving object in an extremely high stress situation.

    The Mozambique Drill exists for good reasons.

    Shoot the driver. Just do it from the side if it’s moving, not from the front through the windshield… otherwise you’re already under the bumper.

    Moreover, shooting at a very hard glass that is angled means that some rounds will be deflected and end up… Lord knows where.

    Even if you do manage to get the tire

    Unless you are really really close (which is dangerous at high speed, to say the least) and use something like a shotgun, the chance of hitting a tire is close to zero. And if you miss – and you will miss lots of rounds – those rounds will hit the very hard object called the road and will end up… Lord knows where.

    As anyone who’s been in a gun fight knows, it’s a really, really bad idea to fire at hard objects (glass, stone wall, metal objects, roads, even water at the wrong angle), because bullets have a nasty habit of being deflected or skipping along the after hitting the said hard object and ending up unpredictably. That’s bad enough in a minimum-rules of engagement gun fight, but for law enforcement, it could be catastrophic (and not just to bystanders, but also for the LEOs themselves since rounds could even ricochet straight back*).

    *Don’t do this example right here:

    (.50 BMG at a steel target at 2000 yards)

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
  126. Hello, goyim!

    How ya doing? It really doesn’t matter any more, if Biden says stupid things like this.

    All that matters is, we’re past the mark: we now have enough dusky imported foreign non-Americans to effectively replace you… and to vote you into slavery, when the time comes. “We did it before, and, we can do it again!”

    See you in the labor camps! Enjoy your negro commandants!

    signed,
    Your Greatest Ally

  127. @AUSA(ret)

    It is amazing how kind Sleepy Joe is to prove over and over again how dumb he truly is

    Longtime NYC radio talk show host Mark Simone says that over the years he has asked senators who is the dumbest among them. The answer was always, “Joe Biden.”

    However, as of today I think Mazie Hirono could give him a run for the title.

  128. Sean says:
    @TWS

    CornpStat – according to Bratton it is based on…. principles of relentless follow-up and assessment. There is clearly considerable pressure placed on borough and precinct commanders to achieve. reductions in crime within their areas.Individuals on bicycles are being stopped, searched, handcuffed and arrested for offences relating to their bicycles such as riding without a bell, or without a headlight or taillight, or on the footpath. They often remain in police custody for over 24 hours before appearing in front of the court. Similarly, men and women have been arrested and held in custody for having open containers of alcohol at neighbourhood weekend basketball games . [T] he performance by which commanders are judged are ‘numbers’: the number of street searches, the number of high rise searches (verticals), the number of summons, the number of arrests, the number of warrants executed, and so forth

    Why no knock? They were not looking for Taylor’s ex-boyfriend, they knew he was not living there and they arrived at 12:30 a.m. The warrant was not for an arrest but for gathering evidence. The grounds for the warrant (that she had received suspect packages for the ex boyfriend) were lies.

    • Replies: @TWS
  129. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Monster

    Washington Redskins safety Sean Taylor dies a day after he was shot in the leg after an apparent break-in at his home. He never regained consciousness after losing a great deal of blood. Taylor was 24.

    Biden’s been watching too many old episodes of “Rawhide.”

    If you hit a major artery in the leg, or arm, your target will bleed out before he/she gets to the hospital. If a shootist possesses the skill to hit the leg, while missing major arteries, he might as well just shoot the gun out of his opponents hand, since it would be far easier.

    Note to Giuliani: Will you please release the good stuff on Biden as soon as possible? While I guess it’s wildly entertaining for you, and I admit, I feel like I’m watching “JAWS,” but I don’t like how close you’re cutting this. People are mail-in voting! We need more/better releases!

    Let’s gut this mean ol’ trout NOW!

  130. TGGP says: • Website

    You have to justify every round

    Given the very large numbers of rounds fired in numerous incidents, I find that particular bit hard to believe. “Shoot until the threat is neutralized” seems to be the thinking, and once the shooting starts there’s no need to rationalize an additional bullet.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  131. Mr. Anon says:

    The National Police Violence De-escalation Act of 2021, signed today by President Biden, stipulates that police officers shall do the following to de-escalate armed encounters: After drawing their sidearm, officers shall cast a steely-eyed glare at the suspect and in a clear, firm voice say one of the following warning phrases: “Hasta La Vista, Baby”, “Go ahead, make My Day.”, “Yippie-kai-Yay Motherf**ker”, or “Say Hello to my little friend!”.

    • Replies: @anon
  132. Lurker says:
    @brabantian

    Great scene. Except for the curious glitch in post-production whereby the black hoods have somehow become white and the humble victim has become black.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  133. @R.G. Camara

    That’s an improvement over the original story, since Fleming had Bond and the bad guy playing baccarat, a game of even more chance.

  134. utu says:

    Biden was correct to bring up the issue. The number of fatalities resulting from encounters with police in the US must be lowered. The rules of engagement that guide police behavior need to be revised. While shooting in the legs is not the best response in general it can be the best response in some situations. Deconflicting and deescalation of situation should be emphasized. Police should learn that a tactical withdrawal is a legitimate option that does not take away their manhood.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Joseph Doaks
  135. A common complaint that some anti-LEO folks also make is regarding the large number of shots fired by the police in an effort to remove a threat to themselves or to others.

    It is reported that NYPC requires all police weapons have a 12-pound trigger pull … far in excess of what most shooters have on their own weapons. That forces the repetitive trigger pulls that end up putting a lot of bullets into the space in front of the officer … which explains how some suspects end up with so many bullet holes … especially considering how many LEOs may be firing at them.

  136. TheRapist says: • Website

    The reason this is complex is because most of your readers are fucking retards. Yes.

    • Replies: @TheRapist
  137. @Jack D

    Self hating Germans are annoying, guter Mann.

  138. Rob McX says:
    @Rob Lee

    Thanks, you give very interesting insights into combat by from a police point of view.

    I get equally frustrated when I hear people ‘cock a Glock’ in the movies.

    Another Hollywood-mandated feature is that every gun confrontation has to be preceded by the sound of slides being racked. Even the most hardened gangbanger carries his gun with the chamber empty, because otherwise viewers would be deprived of this auditory experience.

  139. Rob McX says:
    @Redneck farmer

    You could argue that any large country with separate states and a diverse population is an “empire”. The US was heading in that direction well before the end of the 19th century. In fact, the presence of blacks from the 17th century probably guaranteed an unmanageable level of diversity at some time in the future when enough of them (or all, as it turn out) became free.

  140. Rob McX says:

    From the Wikipedia article on the Jacob Blake shooting:

    After an initial scuffle, Blake walked to the driver’s side of his vehicle, followed by officer Rusten Sheskey and another officer with handguns drawn. Sheskey attempted to grab Blake, and when Blake opened the driver’s side door and leaned in, Sheskey grabbed him and fired seven shots towards Blake’s back. According to Blake’s attorney, only four of the shots hit Blake.

    The officer only hit Blake with four out of seven shots even when he was close enough to grab him. There’s no reason to believe police in Kenosha are any less competent with firearms than their counterparts in any other other town or city in America.

  141. Charlotte says:
    @Kylie

    The real, practical risks aside, my concealed carry instructor stressed that shooting to wound may be interpreted as an admission that you did not actually believe your life was in danger, and thus can leave you open to prosecution. I don’t know if law enforcement officers face the same catch-22, but it’s possible.

  142. Anonymous[383] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara

    The idea of the British Secret Service pinning their hopes on this is hilariously insane. Any good poker player would laugh. It’s like betting all your money on the outcome of one at-bat in a baseball game.There is no way any poker player can guarantee any outcome in a tournament.

    Very true, you need a game of skill to beat the criminal mastermind, like guessing the weight of a fruitcake.

  143. @The Wild Geese Howard

    She’s cool. Especially when Sen. Hawley articulates his other hypothesis that “this case might come before you”.

  144. Coemgen says:

    Hm, maybe Joe Biden does have a point regarding shooting perpetrators “in the leg.” That’s essentially what the IRA (Irish Republican Army) did to their transgressors by “kneecapping” them (literally shooting them in the patella). The trick is to “kneecap” a transgressor before he gets into an escalated situation.

  145. Sean says:

    Once there is authorisation to deliberately shoot to not kill, then the bar for shooting blacks being much lower would likely mean far more blacks might be shot and the deaths (some would be accidently killed) might be a lot. What would probably happen if shooting in the legs was taught at Police Academy is shootings by police would be happening in far less dangerous circumstances than a threat to life, and vastly more often. Also, cops going into dangerous situations carry riot guns and AR15s, so legs would get blown off.

  146. Twinkie says:
    @Lurker

    Great scene. Except for

    They trained Tom Cruise to do that (often disputed) style of close-quarters shooting well (another movie trope – villains always come close to you with their handgun/rifle stretched out and ready to have it deflected or disarmed), but he failed at the end. Note how he holsters his weapon (he doesn’t appear to have a holster, but look at the muzzle).

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  147. Twinkie says:
    @TGGP

    Given the very large numbers of rounds fired in numerous incidents, I find that particular bit hard to believe.

    Every round discharged by an LEO has to be accounted for after action.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  148. Sean says:
    @utu

    Police should learn that a tactical withdrawal is a legitimate option that does not take way their manhood.

    They have already learnt not to be there quick enough to risk getting their balls blasted off, or their safe job with a pension and benefits taken from them. They are avoiding confrontations, by taking the long way round at moderate speed and using extreme punctiliousness about obeying procedures in order give a possible armed black time to get away. The rising black on black murder rate proves it. Stops of suspect cars and frisking and questionioning ‘joggers’ is becoming a thing of the past.

    • Replies: @El Dato
  149. nebulafox says:
    @Thomas

    Israel’s foreign policy strategy of courting friendships in the non-Western World has been a gigantic success by any metric, and as far as the Arab governments go, even the Saudis are in bed with them these days. I suspect that the Palestinians are hoping that the Western Left will bail them out, but that’s grossly unrealistic. Israel does not need to care about what Europe thinks and has not had to for a long time. America is a different story, perhaps, but the geriatrics still need to die off before the Democrats get more overtly pro-Palestinian.

    The kindest thing that can be done for the Palestinians is to make it absurdly, grossly clear that no outside power is going to intervene on their behalf for right of return or Jerusalem, and that a Collins-style settlement revolving around concessions that the Israelis might actually be willing to grant (and that America could realistically lean on them to grant in exchange for this acceptance, though like most people, the Israelis do not like war for the sake of it) is their best bet. But any Palestinian Michael Collins is going to get assassinated quickly.

    • Agree: El Dato
    • Replies: @Thomas
  150. nebulafox says:
    @David In TN

    Daley emphatically ordered the police to shoot to kill with arsonists/rioters and to maim with looters. Say what you will about Hizzoner, he didn’t mess around when it came to disruptive elements endangering the lives and property of law-abiding citizens.

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Newsom-appeals-to-California-protesters-Consider-15383308.php

    You could say it is a form of decline.

  151. El Dato says:
    @Anon

    “ALL SPORTS-BASED ENTERTAINERS SHALL HAVE EQUAL PAY ESPECIALLY THE FEMALES”

    As realistic as Chtulhu serving you morning toast.

    That Twitter guy is actually Head of Marketing at something, so he should know about how this works.

  152. El Dato says:
    @brabantian

    I feel as if I were back on rec.guns of the early 90s.

    OT: P-Diddy sees RACE WAR if Biden isn’t made Prez, launches political party:

  153. Pericles says:
    @Kylie

    The left has no idea of how serious firearm safety really is. They act as if it’s a game, which helps to explain why they talk about giving up guns so easily.

    The baseball mass murder mostly failed, but it would have been a pretty epic act of terrorism, like blowing up a section of Congress or something. Not sure whether the Las Vegas boomer mass murder counts as leftist, though I believe the guy mostly aimed at appreciators of country music. Also, the left seem to be fairly good at shooting and killing Trump supporters in the streets lately.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @Jim Don Bob
  154. El Dato says:
    @Sean

    Those are the effects of POLITICAL decisions made in cushy chairs resulting in dysfunctions in the real world.

    Given how the decision about “frisking black men” is even today used as a weapon against Bloomberg, those political decisions are not about to be rolled back.

  155. Pericles says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    In a basement someone’s humming along

    “Where did I come from,
    where do I go?
    I think they call me Cotton-Eye Joe”

  156. Hunsdon says:
    @Lace

    Shooting someone in the leg to stop them is a stupid idea, but not all the people who advanced IT are stupid. We can say that they are ignorant of the Dynamics of firearms, and interpersonal combat. I’m sure that Biden has almost no experience with shooting, and I doubt if Trump has any either. That’s why I having an opinion on something you know nothing about is a dangerous path to try to tread.

    • Agree: Lace
  157. Pericles says:
    @Bugg

    “Please, is there a doctor in the house?”
    “Indeed there is, I am a doctor of education.”

    • LOL: Bugg
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  158. 27 yrs. in law enforcement – If you’ve never had your ass sucking wind at 10,000 r.p.m.’s, you have no opinion on the subject. think about it…….a 6’8″ beast coming at you who is on drugs or adrenilene and I am supposed to maintain myself? shoot em in the leg! love all you people who have opinions on all this but have never been in the situation personally. the only time Joe’s ass has been sucking wind at 10,000 r.p.m.’s was when he mistook Obama for Denzel!

  159. Pericles says:

    Also, why don’t the black criminals just shoot the guns out of each others hands? That way they would get a much more lenient treatment from the justice system.

    • LOL: Rob McX
  160. anon[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Aka, The Dirty Joey Act of 2021.

    C’mon, man, make my day.

  161. Ganderson says:
    @Anonymous

    Trump’s unwillingness to fight back against the Corona panic, (the panic, not the virus) and his continued solicitation of the opinions of one Anthony Fauci, are the root causes of my Trump Disappointment Syndrome. I’ll still vote for him, even though my vote doesn’t count in one party MA , but not enthusiastically.

  162. Jack D says:
    @George

    Because the Israeli snipers were not in imminent danger from any individual fence crosser (though they would be if the fence was breached and the entire mob crossed – the only way to keep the entire mob from crossing is to shoot any individual who tries to climb the fence. The ground rules were known in advance so anyone who tried to climb the fence was asking to be shot) they could afford to be merciful and merely shoot them in the legs as Biden recommends. They had scopes and could indeed aim at whatever part they want to aim at. None of this is true of cops who are up close and personal with some jogger.

    BTW, because the “fence protests” were unsuccessful in getting an Israeli soldier kidnapped (despite the sacrifice of hundreds of dead and thousands of wounded) Hamas eventually discontinued them. The initial impetus for the fence protests was that Israel had defeated Hamas’s ability to dig tunnels into Israel (their former method of kidnapping) thru technical means so this was Plan B, which also failed. Plan C (working for a living) is just not on the table.

    Holding hostages for ransom is a long standing tradition in the Moslem world. The entire economy of North Africa (the “Barbary Coast”) was once based upon kidnapping and holding Europeans as slaves. This was a well established business organized at the highest levels of their government (as were the “fence protests”). If someone paid their ransom, that was a win and in the meantime (could be their whole life if no one came forward to pay ransom) they were kept as slaves, also a win. Alternatively, a infidel government could pay a large annual tribute in a lump sum to make their citizens immune from kidnapping. They really couldn’t see anything wrong with this business model – what’s not to like? This didn’t really end until they were conquered by European powers in the 19th century.

  163. Ganderson says:
    @J.Ross

    I will stipulate that I’m not a tough guy- as is the case with most mid boomers I got in my share of scraps as a lad, nothing major. Never owned a gun, but am slightly familiar with firearms, as I went to a military high school- we had a rifle range in the basement of the school. As one of my instructors, Sgt Maj. Stewart observed, I couldn’t hit a cow in the rump with a handful of rice.

    Almost 30 years ago now, when I was working in New York, (During the height of the Dinkins terror) I was walking along W 90th st, and was set upon by two Dindus- I fought back- didn’t really think about it, it was instinct, I guess. After a brief struggle they ran off- I’m guessing, because at the time I had really thick glasses they had me tagged as an easy mark; when it proved to be more difficult they sodded off. I’m sure they could have kicked the shit out of me had they chosen to. What I remember is the adrenaline rush. I got to the bar and quickly downed two pints- zero effect!

    I know, “cool story, Hansl”

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  164. @Joe Stalin

    You make my point for me. These experts are cocking as they draw. An un-cocked Colt Forty Four cannot be fired. BTW, unless you are a truly expert shooter cocking while drawing is not a good idea. It tends to result in unexpected amputations of body parts.

  165. @Anon7

    So, by the standards of the Lewis/Rippy/Brent family (did I miss anyone? His sisters and his cousins and his aunts?), breaking into a cash machine with a hammer is effectively a victimless crime. (“Dey got insurance!”)

    If the convenience store clerk had said, “hey, you, with that hammer, get away from that ATM!” would Mr. Lewis have just said, “O.K.,” and walked away? Right. So the clerk used some good old-fashioned American initiative, and defended his employer’s property.

    And the family of the dead miscreant has the gall to demand “restitution” from the gas station’s owner? On the legal theory of “attractive nuisance,” no doubt.

  166. Corn says:
    @Bugg

    Notwithstanding Hollywood and TV showing cops shooting bad guys every week (like “Bluebloods”), most cops in decades of service never take their pistols out of the holster

    When my fifth grade class went through the DARE program, the county deputy who was the instructor told us in eleven years of policing he had never fired his gun in the line of duty and only had to draw it twice. So yeah, TV cops use their guns more than real cops.

    On a slightly related note, when I took my CCW class six years ago my instructor was a county deputy turned small town police chief. I remember him saying due to the lethality and liability potential of guns police are subjected to frequent training and endless lectures on firearm use. He said he wished more time was given instead to training on hand to hand type stuff: defending yourself from punches, taking down people resisting arrest etc. He said a cop is more likely to be in a fisticuffs type situation than a shooting, but most training focuses on guns.

  167. @R.G. Camara

    The fact that “shooting the leg” and “shooting out the tires” are even seriously thought of as alternatives just shows how ignorant people are of firearms.

    Well to be fair both are quite doable with a shotgun.

    Maybe police in Black areas should just carry a shotgun and some #4 buckshot. Well Ma’am your son is missing a leg and a testicle but we didn’t kill him. You can thank Biden for this glorious new age of racial unity.

    The real solution is to have more Black police.

    Both White liberals and BLM types don’t seem to care if Black police shoot Black criminals.

  168. znon says:
    @El Dato

    Rob Reiner has an alternative to med, high, and very high!

  169. @Jack D

    Because the Israeli snipers were not in imminent danger from any individual fence crosser (though they would be if the fence was breached and the entire mob crossed – the only way to keep the entire mob from crossing is to shoot any individual who tries to climb the fence. The ground rules were known in advance so anyone who tried to climb the fence was asking to be shot) they could afford to be merciful and merely shoot them in the legs as Biden recommends. They had scopes and could indeed aim at whatever part they want to aim at. None of this is true of cops who are up close and personal with some jogger.

    Context is also important. The last time random Palestinians got through in large numbers, they killed, through terror attacks, 1,000 Israelis. The US has roughly 50x Israel’s population. If Central American border crossers were killing 50,000 Americans in terrorist attacks (at bus stations, grocery stores, buses, restaurants, malls, etc) via bomb attacks that occurred at least once a week over several years, the US-Mexico border would probably be mined and patrolled by personnel with shoot-to-kill orders.

    http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisrael-7.html

  170. @Pericles

    The baseball mass murder mostly failed, but it would have been a pretty epic act of terrorism, like blowing up a section of Congress or something. Not sure whether the Las Vegas boomer mass murder counts as leftist, though I believe the guy mostly aimed at appreciators of country music.

    The Vegas shooter was a total liberal boomer.

    No kids, doped up on meds and then directs his rage and disappointment in life at family oriented rural Whites.

    There was also the liberal atheist church shooter that the press dropped when his opinions came out.

  171. @Jack D

    1,700 Youths in Gaza “Face” Amputation but when you read the article the number of actual amputations is less than 200.

    The Ruger 10/22 sniper rifle is back in use in the West Bank.

    The weapon has been outlawed under Israeli law since 2001. It was deemed “more lethal than previously thought” by the Israeli occupation Judge Advocate General Menachem Finkelstein after it killed several children in Gaza during the second Intifada.

    The US-made rifle is modified by the Israeli military, with the standard issue now having a large suppressor or ‘silencer’, a bi-pod and a scope attached.

    https://www.palestinemonitor.org/details.php?id=u7gmbxa2971yfe99jd9ho

    Joe Biden must be thinking of bringing back the .22LR in LE service in order to literally “sweep the dastardly criminals off their feet!”

  172. @utu

    “The number of fatalities resulting from encounters with police in the US must be lowered.”

    It’s not as if this is a new issue. The problem with generalizing about “the police” is that there are hundreds of jurisdictions in the United States, each with its own training, rules of engagement and recruiting standards. Neither the president nor the federal government is empowered to “fix” this problem.

    Congress might establish a National Police Academy offering uniform training and certification to local jurisdictions who choose to participate. We could probably learn a lot from the experience of other countries as well.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Bert
  173. Does anybody else remember Pedo Joe’s advice in regards to home defense? Not verbatim but good enough, all you need is double barrel shotgun and if you hear a noise, go out on your balcony and fire a round or two in the air.

  174. Thomas says:
    @nebulafox

    Israel may have friendships in the non-Western world. It has historical debts from Europe that still matter for now.

    But the card that makes the hand for Israel is, again at least for now, Israel being “Greatest Allies” with the global hegemon. That matters not just for diplomatic reasons, but many, many other reasons too. (Economically and militarily are two ways I can think of).

    The best bet the Pallys have, long-term, is either a US that’s no longer the dominant global power, or for the US to not be as close to Israel at some point in the near future. Both are conceivable in current lifetimes. It’s unlikely Israel would ever be able to establish the unique degree of influence over the foreign policy of China or Russia that it has over that of the US.

    It’s not a great card to play. Don’t get me wrong, I think the best opportunities the Palestinians ever might have had to make it as a nation are decades in the past. They’re more likely to go the way of Biafra or Fredonia than they are to reclaim what they lost. Nobody ever wants to be told that, though.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @nebulafox
  175. Bill B. says:

    Decades ago in Hong Kong there was an enquiry into the suicide of a policeman to try to find out if he might have been murdered. He had shot himself five times in the chest IIRC.

    The enquiry turned up multiple examples of being doing extraordinary things after receiving mortal wounds; for example a man shot through the heart getting into his car, chasing down and running over his assailant, then expiring.

    My own personal experience of being in civil conflict situations (not as a policeman) is that when a situation deteriorates so that potentially bullets will start coming through the air everyone gets extremely nervous. Some people are unable to function.

    I don’t think it will be good for a decent society to have policemen who are ice-cold daredevils able to play chicken with homicidal types. With rare exceptions such people are, at best, the sort of tragic hero who comes on to do a dirty job but then must leave. IE not a policeman.

  176. Marie H says:

    I was on a federal jury in Los Angeles in 1997. A San Bernadino sheriff’s officer shot a Mexican national in the heart and killed him. The plaintiffs, the parents of the deceased, alleged that the officer used excessive force.

    The jury heard a lot of testimony including a explanation such as the one commenter Rob Lee provided. Going for the legs is dangerous. The jury decided unanimously that the officer did not use excessive force.

    Joe Biden is wrong.

  177. Jack D says:
    @Thomas

    The biggest long term threat to Israel is probably Persia (Iran), a traditional regional power and enemy. Israel has good relations with both Russia and China, especially with Russia as many Israelis are of Russian background. Russia is on Syria’s side but Syria has its own fish to fry and is not currently interested in (or more to the point, capable of) pushing against Israel, nor is it likely that they would have the strength to do so for many decades. Since 1973, when the Syrians came close to overrunning Israel, Israel has moved from strength to strength while Syria has circled the drain. The Arabs in general (except for the Palestinians and to some extent the Syrians and the Lebanese) are aligned with Israel because they too are concerned about Persia.

  178. …you shoot them in the leg.

    Why not just shoot the knife or gun out of the bad guy’s hand like on the TV Westerns…?

    If you’re really good, you can perform the Beretta bris.

  179. @Pericles

    “Please, is there a doctor in the house?”
    “Indeed there is, I am a doctor of education…

    Honorary, to be precise.”

    There is a doctor in the house– UMass ’77. The “house” is State Correctional Institution – Phoenix.

  180. @Hereward

    When someone praised him for his skill, he admitted he was aiming for the fellow’s chest, and had hit the gun by accident.

    “I pray you to assure our friends that the humblest of us do not believe that a lucky random shot, even if it did hit Tecumseh, qualifies a man for the Vice Presidency.”

    –Tennessee Supreme Court Chief Justice John Catron, on Richard M Johnson

    Telling someone else to make a lucky random shot doesn’t qualify one for the Presidency, either.

  181. @Jack D

    Because the Israeli snipers were not in imminent danger from any individual fence crosser (though they would be if the fence was breached and the entire mob crossed – the only way to keep the entire mob from crossing is to shoot any individual who tries to climb the fence. The ground rules were known in advance so anyone who tried to climb the fence was asking to be shot) they could afford to be merciful and merely shoot them in the legs as Biden recommends. They had scopes and could indeed aim at whatever part they want to aim at. None of this is true of cops who are up close and personal with some jogger.

    Building on the context theme, over ~5 months, we’ve had maybe a dozen dead on both sides through arson and looting touched off by Democratic assistance to Antifa and BLM rioters, offset by occasional local attempts to keep rioters at bay. Chaos is the word in use on both sides of the political spectrum. In Israel, 1,000 people were killed over 4 years, before Israel finally closed its borders to the Palestinian territories, with deadly bomb attacks occurring weekly. Over any 5 month period, the average Israeli dead would have been 100. Given that the US has roughly 50x Israel’s population, the US equivalent dead would have been 5,000. If there were 5,000 dead from Antifa and BLM riots and the reaction to them, we’d have martial law, dusk-to-dawn curfews and National Guard troops on the streets with shoot-to-kill orders against curfew violators.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  182. Stories abound of people taking half a dozen rounds and continuing to fight – even to go on and disarm and shoot the officer with her own firearm

    The stories about officers disarmed and shot with their own weapon can’t “abound“, because those circumstances happen about 4 times a year – and perps who do so after having taken half a dozen rounds, will not be the majority of perps.

    A thing that happens less than twice a year in a nation of 330 million, is not a thing about which stories ‘abound’ – unless the stories are bullshit.

    So maybe once in a blue moon, a bullet-riddled perp gets hold of a police’s sidearm.

    Blue-line weirdos are like Zionists: they are pathologically incapable of relying on the bare facts – almost compelled to go that one or two steps further than the facts permit… and spout self-serving bullshit that is empirically unsupported.

    Yes, “targeting an extremity” is a stupid YankTV trope that needs to die in a fire. “Being a police is risky” needs to die first, though.

    Yes, always aim a handgun at what is wrongly called ‘centre mass’ (the upper chest – basically the ribcage).

    The ribcge is not ‘centre mass’ (it’s not even close to the centroid of the torso boundary). Centre mass on a normal human is slightly below the sternum, and well-aimed fire there won’t disable the target unless it hits the abdominal aorta or the spine (and severing the aorta won’t drop them immediately). In a modern American, centre mass is probably even lower – halfway between the diaphragm and the umbilicus – because of the abundant fat around the gut, arse and thighs, and weakly musculature in the upper torso and arms.

    Yes, there will be rare circumstances in which de-escalation is not possible; when LTL weapons won’t help; where the decision is split-second; where the adversary is armed and has no compunction about engaging. In those circumstances, stopping the threat means an entire mag at the upper torso, with almost no questions asked (once the footage makes the imminent threat clear: no footage should mean a shooting is treated as a priori unjustified, given the well-understood police tendency to lie as witnesses).

    Again, all these scary things will happen once in a blue moon even in the most risky policcing environments (i.e., densely populated black urban areas) – whereas piggies are taught to live every workday as if there’s a high probability of death, when they’re more likely to die from the long-term consequences of the cortisol from being a scared little bitch, 24/7 … or the metabolic consequences of a diet rich in doughnuts, alcohol, and anabolic steroids.

    The problem with ‘policing’ is that as it becomes more militarised, it mostly attracts the wrong type of people: stupid, cowardly bullies who like the idea of impunity, and ‘going to battle’ against an ‘enemy’ where the enemy has no right to engage, and severely circumscribed rights to engage even defensively.

    Disclosure: my Dad – the man I most admire – was a cop in New Zealand, in the 1960s: he left the force when I was still an infant. A nephew is an Australian Fed; another nephew is about to join the normal State piggies – so ⅓ of my nephews are piggies or piggies-in-waiting[1]. I wouldn’t trust either nephew with a sidearm in a tense situation, and neither is particularly bright (my nephews are objectively more disappointing than my cousins, none of whom are cops, soldiers or bureaucrats. My siblings introduced junk DNA: they mated with midwit Australians).

    Also: NZ police in the 60s didn’t carry anything more than a truncheon. Dad joined at 20, and quit the force at 24 when he reported corruption and was told he should let it go – by my mother’s uncle, who was deputy commissioner of police at the time (he was the husband of one of Mum’s aunts – so no genetic link at all). The uncle went on to become commissioner, but his branch of Mum’s family was estranged from our family, which was in Australia by then.

    [1] That profile makes my family a ‘police’ family: the days of multigenerational poliec membership are long-gone: most children of piggies do not go on to become piggies, (Similarly, we are a ‘military’ family, with 4 former soldiers and 3 defence bureaucrats within 1°KB)

  183. @Johann Ricke

    In Israel, 1,000 people were killed over 4 years

    Every.Single.Time. It’s pathological.

    First: 331 (at a minimum) of those were uniformed IDF members or police – and are therefore valid targets under international laws relating to occupations.

    Second: Over 5,000 Palestinian civilians were killed in the same timeframe. More than 1,000 Palestinian children were killed in the same timeframe.

    Of course the ~5000 dead Palestinian civilians in the same time period you reference, were less relevant to you, since they weren’t in the right primitive genital-mutilation cult and therefore can’t be victims.

    The Palestinians are engaged in an anti-occupation resistance that is entirely legal under international law. Resistance fighters don’t have air forces, so they rely on less-accurate munitions and methods.

    You should understand that: simply cast your mind back to the civilian/military ratio among the casualties of the terrorist activities of Irgun and Haganah (who were not protected by the international right of the occupied to resist their occupiers).

    Let’s ignore ethnic cleansing and assorted other war crimes during al-Nakba, and just do ‘terror bombings’ orchestrated by Zionist terror groups…

    For example: all 91 of the dead in the bombing of the King David Hotel were civilians (although most of them were members of the British Mandate government: is a civilian government employee a legitimate target? If so, how many of your Chosen ‘civilians’ killed in the Intifada were government employees?)

    On continue

     • 18 Dec 1947: bombing in al-Khisas – 10 dead civilians (including 5 children)
     • 29 Dec 1947: car bombing opposite the Damascus Gate – 20 dead civilians.
     • 4 Jan 1948: lorry bomb at Jaffa Town Hall – 15 dead civilians.
     • 6 Jan 1948: bombing at the Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem – 24 dead civilians.
     • 6 Jan 1948: bombing of a bus stop by the Jaffa Gate – 16 dead civilians.
     • 18 Feb 1948: bombing in the Ramla market – 7 dead civilians.
     • 28 Feb 1948: bombing of a garage in Haifa – 30 dead civilians.
     • 31 March 1948: bombing of the Haifa train – 40 dead civilians.
     • 23 May 1948: massacre at al-Tantura – at least 52 civilians dead (in a population of 1500)

    Examples that prove that things didn’t change when the acts of terrorism were being performed by a State rather than non-state Zionist terrorists:
     • July 1948: massacre at Ramle – “as many as 200” dead civilians (so says Benny Morris)

    All 147 of those killed in the 1967 USS Liberty ‘incident’ were military – although they were military of a nation with which ‘Israel’ [sic] was not at war.

     • Sabra and Shatila (1982 – done gutlessly through proxies) – significantly more than 1,000 civilian dead in a matter of days, not years;

     • 2002: Jenin – 22 (acknowledged) civilian deaths;
     • 2008/09: The Gaza Massacre (Operation ‘Cast Lead’) – 1,400 civilian deaths in three weeks.

    Ammut will get to eat your heart (since we’re playing “comparative stupid primitive stories”, I’ve picked one that pre-dates Mosaic fiction by over a millennium – with the nice additional fact that its adherents were in control of the whole of Palestine during the period covered by the foundational myths in the Torah).

    TL;DR: when a bunch of hovel-dwellers from Eastern Europe try to steal the historical lands of a people – using a stupid pile of Iron Age drivel as the title deed – they should expect resistance. Resistance is a recognised legal right of occupied peoples.

    If, while doing the theft, they perpetrate a vast array of terrorist acts against the indigenes, they cannot cry ‘foul’ when the indigenes decide to give the thieves a taste of their own medicine.

    Finally: the representatives of the occupied people cannot waive their rights under the 4th Geneva Convention and Geneva Protocol I. The 4th Geneva Convention Arts. 8 & 47 make that clear.

    That’s because it’s well-understood that the representatives are negotiating under duress – and it’s a settled principle that agreements procured under duress are non-binding on individuals, and are even less so for agents of an entire population.

    And Art 49 makes illegal the transfer of occupier populations into occupied territory (so the settlements violate international law).

    Hold yourself ready for the day that US political arm-twisting becomes irrelevant, and the international community holds the Eastern European refuse in Palestine to account. The Hague will be busy for a decade.

    • Thanks: JMcG
  184. By the way, I could imagine a policy of shooting out tires on getaway cars might be worth considering. For example, in the Jacob Blake case in Kenosha, you have Blake’s ex-girlfriend screaming that this man is stealing her car with her children inside it. Maybe in these kind of cases where the cops arrive and they can’t tell if it’s really a kidnapping or just a domestic dispute, shooting out a tire would buy some time to sort things out.

    Nice article, but bullets ricochet.

  185. @TWS

    This isn’t Wyatt Earp days, you don’t get paid per arrest.

    You are either deliberately misdirecting or inadvertently misdirecting.

    Police forces the world over have targets – ‘quotas’ if you like. Their budgets depend on them, and senior police (who are almost entirely bureaucrat/politician hybrids) pay very close attention to budgets – and shit rolls downhill.

    So while individual cops ‘don’t get paid per arrest’, collectively the police budget varies directly with the quantum of arrests (and other citations – speeding tickets etc) that they generate.

    That’s literally one of the most ‘known knowns’ about policing the world over.

    Are you 12 years old?

    • Replies: @TWS
  186. @Pericles

    I have never seen a good explanation of the Las Vegas shooting. I am not a conspiracy guy, but it reeks of a cover up.

    • Agree: JMcG
  187. @Jack D

    The Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. F**K them and their supporters

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  188. joe_mama says:
    @Rob Lee

    Great post. If really does amaze me how little or misinformed the average person is about violence. This knife training video from Dan Inosanto explains it really well:

  189. sayless says:
    @Bugg

    Addressing erudite people as Doctor, “Learned”, is civilized, the title needn’t be confined to medicine. But a Doctorate in Education?? It’s just degree inflation.

  190. @Jack D

    That’s rich, considering that the whole basis for the transplanting of an alien Eastern European hovel-dweller culture (sic) in the 1940s was that a bunch of unrelated primitives were ‘exiled’ from Palestine in 70-130 CE.

    By all means, let’s introduce “walk it off” as a thing in international law. We can schedule the implementation for the day after the hovel-dwellers and their anchor babies fuck off back to hovels in villages in the countryside east of Lviv.

    FWIW: in my calculus, the actual descendants of the 70CE population have valid moral claims – their ancestors acquired the place by relatively peaceful osmosis (all the bullshit stories like Joshua notwithstanding), and were then serially-dispossessed after a brief period of self-determination (less than 250 years, during which they did fuck-all of note).

    The problem for the shtetl-dweller bandits’ claim is that the original population mostly never left: they just changed allegiance to a different load of fairy-stories.

    That’s actually what eminent pre-Nakba Zionists believed – ben Zvi, Ben-Gurion, Borochov. Obviously that line of thinking became ‘problematic’ once the Zionists got enough political backing from the West to enable them to steal the land from the Palestinians.

    The view that modern Palestinians are the genetically-continuous descendants of the 1st-centry CE population of Palestine is borne out by the preponderance of the J1 haplogroup in modern Palestinian Arabs (there were Arabs in Palestine in the 4th century BCE).

    J1 is common in Palestinian Arabs (~⅖ of samples) and even more prolific among the Bedu (almost 2/3rds of Bedouin are J1), and J1 examples have been found in the Levant dating to 7000 years ago. Taken together, the evidence is compelling for the (obvious) fact that modern Palestinian Arab and Bedu J1 are genetically continuous from Bronze Age Levantine J1 Arabs.

    This is specific to Palestinian Arab Muslims: Palestinian Arab Christians are only 8% J1, and ~40% E1b1b (A subclade of E-M2: Libyan Tuaregs have the highest incidence). In other words, the Christian population probably has close local genetic continuity, but not as close as the Muslims.

    The J1 presence in Ashkenazi (~⅐th of Ashkenazim) is more likely to have originated elsewhere (given that an 11,000yo J1 example was found in Georgia – close to where the Ashkenazi originate – although the Georgie example is of a rare subclade). The Sephardic J1 (~⅑th of Sephardim) is more likely from original Palestinians.

    To be fair, the J-P58 (J1e) variant supposedly[1] found in half of all Kohanim is present in Palestine, but is much more common in Amharic-speaking Ethiopians (70%) and Eastern Anatolia – but rare in the Caucasus. I’m not sure that Kohanim want to try to shoe-horn Ethiopian genetics into the argument, given their views regarding Beta Israel (best illustrated by how Beta Israel is treated in modern-day Occupied Palestine).

    As usual, science gives the lie to stupid primitive fables and Noble Lies (this instance, about the Diaspora) – although there is some evidence that Kohanim have Y-DNA links to the Levant, but that is not true for Ashkenazim in general.

    [1] ‘supposedly’: claims from people with a strong vested interest should always be examined with skepticism. The desperation with which Ashkenazi genetic links to historic Palestine are sought, is downright unseemly – and appear to be an attempt to steal oxygen from the obvious, easy-to-find J1 links in the indigenous Palestinians. (That said: the focus on Kohanim kinda throws bog-standard Ashkenazim under the bus).

    We all know what unscrupulousness can arise when some people get an idea that ‘finding’ such-and-so a thing would be in their interests. Nobody will subject this type of work to the scrutiny it deserves, because ‘antisemite’ can still be a career-ending accusation.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  191. @Anonymous

    But it takes a lot of courage to make this an election issue.

    Courage doesn’t enter into it when the one making the statement is as demented as Biden is.

  192. @Dr. Doom

    I don’t want this stupid senile retard ANYWHERE NEAR THE FOOTBALL.

    I hope he never gets near a shotgun either.

    • Agree: bruce county
  193. Thirdtwin says:

    “Limping While Black”

  194. nebulafox says:
    @Thomas

    > It has historical debts from Europe that still matter for now.

    Israel has been majority non-trad Ashkenazim for decades. Israeli politicians have no incentive to pay attention to Europe from their domestic constituents.

    As far as the US is concerned, the wokesters are a helluva lot more likely to look at Israel as a new South Africa, not as a plucky upstart. And while the GOP is likely going to remain pro-Israeli, it’s not going to be based off religious sentiment as much anymore, and that’s going to translate into a more transactional (read, NORMAL) relationship that is willing to buck Israeli interests if they collide against American ones. So, the Palestinians might be getting just that. I’m just skeptical that’s going to be enough. It’s not 1973 anymore: the Israelis are pretty secure in the region. They don’t need to determine a major power’s foreign policy in the same way they used to.

    (That, and would you ever put your faith in baizuo to get things done outside of an environment they totally dictate? I’m reminded of that movie about the Baader-Meinhof crew being trained by Palestinians distinctly unamused by their sexual hedonism and general lack of seriousness. It’s going to be that same kind of bumbling impotence, but with the power roles reversed.)

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  195. nebulafox says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    Let the damned Semites squabble over their worthless inheritance. I’ve always viewed it as beneath American dignity to care so much.

  196. @Jack D

    Holding hostages for ransom is a long standing tradition in the Moslem world. The entire economy of North Africa (the “Barbary Coast”) was once based upon kidnapping and holding Europeans as slaves. This was a well established business organized at the highest levels of their government (as were the “fence protests”). If someone paid their ransom, that was a win and in the meantime (could be their whole life if no one came forward to pay ransom) they were kept as slaves, also a win. Alternatively, a infidel government could pay a large annual tribute in a lump sum to make their citizens immune from kidnapping. They really couldn’t see anything wrong with this business model – what’s not to like? This didn’t really end until they were conquered by European powers in the 19th century.

    On this subject, it’s pretty amazing how ad hoc operations conducted by a literal handful of underfunded Navy personnel semi-freelancing managed to bring the Barbary corsairs to heel:

    https://www.varsitytutors.com/earlyamerica/early-america-review/volume-6/terrorism-early-america

    Arabs were obviously once a formidable opponent that came close to overrunning Europe, did overrun big chunks of mostly Christian Southern Europe, mostly-Christian North Africa, the mostly-Christian Arabian peninsula, Zoroastrian Persia, mostly-Buddhist Central Asia and mostly-Hindu South Asia. Today’s Arabia is a pale shadow of its all-conquering forebears.

  197. @Matt Buckalew

    Say what you want about W but he was a Pike at Yale and by all accounts pretty much the life of the party

    Yeah, but he was a cheerleader too. There’s really no coming back from that, you know.

  198. utu says:
    @Joseph Doaks

    The pressure will come from communities. All what is needed is too publicize the deaths of Whites killed by police. Twice as many Whites are killed by police as Blacks.

  199. Bert says:
    @Joseph Doaks

    Congress might establish a National Police Academy offering uniform training and certification to local jurisdictions who choose to participate.

    A crucial step (likely taken after gaining control of the news media) for subverting a free society into a police state is to establish a National Police Force. What you propose as uniform training would certainly amount to political indoctrination, and would be heavily focused on increasing police power.

    Increasing police power is the natural tendency. Think about whether there is a real need for para-military units within law enforcement, i.e. SWAT units. The full name for the acronym was originally “Special Weapons and Attack Team” but was later changed to the more benign “Special Weapons and Tactics.”

    In most cases, which are of a single distraught individual who is inside a structure, the situation could be resolved by waiting for the disturbed person to surrender because of reflecting on his situation, getting too hungry, getting too tired, etc. From its origin in Los Angeles, SWAT was spread all over the nation by organizations that want a National Police Force.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Jim Don Bob
  200. J.Ross says:
    @Ganderson

    I’m sure you’re not lying, but you were lucky, and have no reason to have expected success, or to expect another success. The real triumph of having a gun is when you pull it out and the enemy flees without a fight. It’s safer than fists. I knew a guy who was accosted in a major city and ended it by using neither fists nor firearms. He got very sincerely angry very quickly (without experience or practice that will actually take a minute, no matter what it’s in reaction to), and starting screaming about how he didn’t put up with (he used that word) as a beat cop in Detroit and he wasn’t going to put up with (he said it again) here. They ran away. Could easily have been making things worse.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
  201. J.Ross says:
    @Bert

    Many policing successes were a result of tailoring to the local community. Not only is nationalization something Democrat thugs want, but the record has been unambiguously disastrous. Many of the dumbest things a police department does are a function of the interfering outside: federal backseat driving, conditions attached to receive federal funds, consent decrees, academic-born fads, or outside training. The “protect your own life at all costs” mindest is an Israeli idea using unaltered IDF press release language, marketed aggressively to police in the 90s. Let the cops in Skokie be the cops in Skokie.

  202. J.Ross says:
    @nebulafox

    Israeli politicians have no incentive to pay attention to Europe from their domestic constituents.

    Tell the Kaczynskis. Is money ever not money? Is public shame ever not public shame?

  203. @Twinkie

    (another movie trope – villains always come close to you with their handgun/rifle stretched out and ready to have it deflected or disarmed)

    Another movie trope is how civilians who own guns for self defense always close the distance to the bad guys so they can be disarmed and have the weapons used against them. That’s when these movie trope civilians are not committing suicide with their own guns.

  204. @Bert

    A crucial step (likely taken after gaining control of the news media) for subverting a free society into a police state is to establish a National Police Force.

    Agree. The FBI is something of a National Police Force, and look what an inept politicized POS it has become. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Hatfield, and now the Russia hoax.

    Their only recent success was determining that the NASCAR nooses were garage door pulls, and that took fifteen agents.

  205. Ganderson says:
    @J.Ross

    Like i said- I just reacted- my wife yelled at me when I told her. I am probably lucky that either they weren’t armed or I wasn’t worth the trouble. Or both

    Of course it’s been 30 years, so I’m now suddenly remembering, they were both 6’5”; I gave them both roundhouse rights to the temples, and they ran away crying… yeah, that’s the ticket!

  206. TWS says:
    @Sean

    Since witnesses and camera says the police announced themselves not sure where you’re going with that.

  207. TWS says:
    @Kratoklastes

    So you were a police officer for how many years?

    Never once had a quota for anything as an officer. Not once, not ever. But you won’t believe that because it doesn’t fit the show playing in your head.

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