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Belloc in 1936 on the Return of Islam
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The Roman Catholic friends Hilaire Belloc and G.K. Chesterton were among the few writers in English in the first half of the 20th Century to predict the return of Islamic enthusiasm in the second half of the 20th Century. It’s interesting to evaluate their forecasts. From Belloc’s 1936 work The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed:

… In view of this, anyone with a knowledge of history is bound to ask himself whether we shall not see in the future a revival of Mohammedan political power, and the renewal of the old pressure of Islam upon Christendom.

We have seen how the material political power of Islam declined very rapidly during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. We have just followed the story of that decline. When Suleiman the Magnificent was besieging Vienna he had better artillery, better energies and better everything than his opponents; Islam was still in the field the material superior of Christendom – at least it was the superior in fighting power and fighting instruments. That was within a very few years of the opening of the eighteenth century. Then came the inexplicable decline. The religion did not decay, but its political power and with that its material power declined astonishingly, and in the particular business of arms it declined most of all. When Dr. Johnson’s father, the bookseller, was setting up business at Lichfield, the Grand Turk was still dreaded as a potential conqueror of Europe; before Dr. Johnson was dead no Turkish fleet or army could trouble the West. Not a lifetime later, the Mohammedan in North Africa had fallen subject to the French; and those who were then young men lived to see nearly all Mohammedan territory, except for a decaying fragment ruled from Constantinople, firmly subdued by the French and British Governments.

These things being so, the recrudescence of Islam, the possibility of that terror under which we lived for centuries reappearing, and of our civilization again fighting for its life against what was its chief enemy for a thousand years, seems fantastic. Who in the Mohammedan world today can manufacture and maintain the complicated instruments of modern war? Where is the political machinery whereby the religion of Islam can play an equal part in the modern world?

I say the suggestion that Islam may re-arise sounds fantastic – but this is only because men are always powerfully affected by the immediate past: – one might say that they are blinded by it.

Cultures spring from religions; ultimately the vital force which maintains any culture is its philosophy, its attitude toward the universe; the decay of a religion involves the decay of the culture corresponding to it – we see that most clearly in the breakdown of Christendom today. The bad work begun at the Reformation is bearing its final fruit in the dissolution of our ancestral doctrines – the very structure of our society is dissolving.

In the place of the old Christian enthusiasms of Europe there came, for a time, the enthusiasm for nationality, the religion of patriotism. But self-worship is not enough, and the forces which are making for the destruction of our culture, notably the Jewish Communist propaganda from Moscow, have a likelier future before them than our old-fashioned patriotism.

In Islam there has been no such dissolution of ancestral doctrine – or, at any rate, nothing corresponding to the universal break-up of religion in Europe. The whole spiritual strength of Islam is still present in the masses of Syria and Anatolia, of the East Asian mountains, of Arabia, Egypt and North Africa.

The final fruit of this tenacity, the second period of Islamic power, may be delayed: – but I doubt whether it can be permanently postponed.

There is nothing in the Mohammedan civilization itself which is hostile to the development of scientific knowledge or of mechanical aptitude. I have seen some good artillery work in the hands of Mohammedan students of that arm; I have seen some of the best driving and maintenance of mechanical road transport conducted by Mohammedans. There is nothing inherent to Mohammedanism to make it incapable of modern science and modern war.

It’s interesting that Islamic countries, while they improved considerably versus 1936, haven’t gotten much past technological mediocrity over the last 85 years.

Indeed the matter is not worth discussing. It should be self-evident to anyone who has seen the Mohammedan culture at work. That culture happens to have fallen back in material applications; there is no reason whatever why it should not learn its new lesson and become our equal in all those temporal things which now alone give us our superiority over it – whereas in Faith we have fallen inferior to it.

My guess is that Belloc, a literary intellectual, underestimated just how much military power would be depending upon both technical and organizational skills.

On the other hand, he didn’t foresee how rich some Arab states would get from oil. The United States kept secret during the early 1940s just how much oil Saudi Arabia had. Oil geologist Lee DeGolyer’s 1944 report to FDR explained that the oil of Saudi Arabia was the greatest prize in world history.

People who question this may be misled by a number of false suggestions dating from the immediate past. For instance, it was a common saying during the nineteenth century that Mohammedanism had lost its political power through its doctrine of fatalism. But that doctrine was in full vigour when the Mohammedan power was at its height. For that matter Mohammedanism is no more fatalist than Calvinism; the two heresies resemble each other exactly in their exaggerated insistence upon the immutability of Divine decrees.

There was another more intelligent suggestion made in the nineteenth century, which was this: that the decline of Islam had proceeded from its fatal habit of perpetual civil division: the splitting up and changeability of political authority among the Mohammedans. But that weakness of theirs was present from the beginning; it is inherent in the very nature of the Arabian temperament from which they started. Over and over again this individualism of theirs, this “fissiparous” tendency of theirs, has gravely weakened them; yet over and over again they have suddenly united under a leader and accomplished the greatest things.

In the 1960s, it seemed as if Nasser of Egypt might be this man. But he lost in 1967.

Now it is probable enough that on these lines – unity under a leader – the return of Islam may arrive. There is no leader as yet, but enthusiasm might bring one and there are signs enough in the political heavens today of what we may have to expect from the revolt of Islam at some future date – perhaps not far distant.

After the Great War the Turkish power was suddenly restored by one such man.

Ataturk.

Another such man in Arabia, with equal suddenness, affirmed himself and destroyed all the plans laid for the incorporation of that part of the Mohammedan world into the English sphere.

Ibn Saud.

History often turns upon unexpected personalities. The West has been fairly lucky that no outstanding man has arisen in Islamic world. Since 1936, probably the two most remarkable personalities have been Nasser, who was more of a Bonapartist modernizer demagogue than an Islamist, and the Ayatollah Khomeini.

Syria, which is the connecting link, the hinge and the pivot of the whole Mohammedan world, is, upon the map, and superficially, divided between an English and a French mandate; but the two Powers intrigue one against the other and are equally detested by their Mohammedan subjects, who are only kept down precariously by force. There has been bloodshed under the French mandate more than once and it will be renewed while under the English mandate the forcing of an alien Jewish colony upon Palestine has raised the animosity of the native Arab population to white heat.

Indeed.

Meanwhile a ubiquitous underground Bolshevist propaganda is working throughout Syria and North Africa continually, against the domination of Europeans over the original Mohammedan population.

Lastly there is this further point to which attention should be paid: the attachment (such as it is) of the Mohammedan world in India to English rule is founded mainly upon the gulf between the Mohammedan and Hindu religions. Every step towards a larger political independence for either party strengthens the Mohammedan desire for renewed power. The Indian Mohammedan will more and more tend to say: “If I am to look after myself and not to be favoured as I have been in the past by the alien European master in India – which I once ruled – I will rely upon the revival of Islam.” For all these reasons (and many more might be added) men of foresight may justly apprehend, or at any rate expect, the return of Islam.

In other words, Pakistan, which now has nuclear weapons.

In general, forecasting is hard, especially about the future. So this is not at all bad as a forecast.

 
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  1. It’s interesting that Islamic countries, while they improved considerably versus 1936, haven’t gotten much past technological mediocrity over the last 85 years.

    One notable exception, however, would be Iran. They now have advanced missile, satellite and drone technology. They also–famously–have a nuclear reactor.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Ironwrkr
  2. In general, forecasting is hard, especially about the future.

    For example, Belloc was reincarnated as Melania Trump. Amazing timeline.

    • LOL: TWS
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @syonredux
  3. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve,

    The trouble is that, for the most part, the world’s Muslim population is eager to ‘vote with their feet’ and to high tail the ‘house of peace’ and make it over to the abode of the filthy kaffir as fast and multitudinously possible – alas, only aided and abetted the kaffirs’ Economist whipped elite in their dreams and ambitions.

    What this suggests to me, at least, is that ultimately the brute facts of economics and living standards in this here and now mundane world of ‘testing the sons of Adam’ basically carries more force with the Ummah than any entreaties to al Din.

    The corollary surely is the ultimate triumph of American style red raw and blue turbocharged capitalism. The system which furnishes the good ol US of A with a thousand and one franchised strip malls, mass obesity, nasty cacophonous black ‘rap’ and ‘r and b’ “music”, multimillionaire asshole sports players, Jewish oligarchs basically bribing any politician that breathes, the ubiquity of hardcore pornography on tap etc etc. My suspicion now veers to the conclusion that sheer virulence of American devil takes the hindmost big balls capitalism – symptomatic of thousands of bottom of the heap American women whoring themselves out for spot cash on the internet – is stronger than that of *any* religious faith. The soft pleasures of American life are their for the ‘faithful’ but, oh, what a terrible price must be paid in both body and soul to the big ballsmen, those who basically own the capital, and direct the helots. Quite a dichotomy, but alas, greed and lust for pleasures of the earth, and all that’s in it, will prevail – as a cursory glance at immigration patterns will show you.

    The muzzies might think, at this moment, that they are winning the battle, shamelessly bumrushing the west and living off the white tax cattle’s dime – with the full connivance nod and wink of The Economist overlords – but, just you wait and see. The mercantilist turbocharged harshness of reality in the west – the ‘goodies’ have a price after all – will see *their* grand daughters doing unspeakable things on PornHub.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Istevefan
    , @YetAnotherAnon
  4. Lin says:

    In general, forecasting is hard, especially about the future.

    Depends on the time span though it’s true that human affairs are stochastic. In a simplistic model,I would compare humans to gas molecules inside a heat pipe. The individual humans could move around in every directions but still there’s overall direction in the long run.
    –For the immediate future, its very likely next morning we would still wake up alive and wouldn’t be knocked down by a car in the neighborhood.
    –In the long run, we’ll all die.
    –In the very distant future, homos(sapien or not)will be replaced by(or evolve into)a new species(biological or robotic or cyborg).
    ……
    Regarding (sunni)Islam, I must remind people that in the geopolitical/civilizational sense, it’s more a vehicle of arab/arabised power than ANYTHING. The main problem is Sunni islam is the ONLY big pillar of arab civilisation. The euros have greco roman(&and other ‘pagan’,like the Nordic ones..) culture to fall back on. And the east Asians attach less importance to religion and have a host of social philosophies. Without ISLAM, arabs would be culturally naked and void.
    Hinduism is a parallel (and even more complex)example. Without Hinduism as a national adhesive, what would happen to India, a country with 16 national languages and such perplexing racial ‘diversity’?

    • Replies: @donut
  5. Jesse says:

    The great variable, in international terms, is China. They’ve already turned Pakistan into a colony, are rapidly becoming Israel’s besty, and are content to let their satellites do what they want domestically as long as it doesn’t hurt then financially. They won’t tolerate any shenanigans, like war.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  6. Sean says:

    Pakistan is concerned with India, which has its own nukes for a standoff, plus a bigger army than Pakistan has population. I do not see Pakistan, aligned with China, as concerning itself with the West at all, at least not as a country in world geopolitical consideration. Immigration is a way Pakistanis have already been successful in altering the character of regions of the English speaking part of the West. Nobody really saw immigration coming, and the dictation of geopolitical-economic competition mitigate against dealing with the great replacement. Nation states are not good at dealing with such problems.

    I very much agree that protection of the family dictatorship of Saudi Arabia is the main principle of US policy in the Middle East. The external threats the Saud family regime faces cannot be neutralised by having strong US forces stationed in Saudi Arabia indefinitely, because devout/ radical nationalist Saudis Arabians are outraged, and such domestic unrest puts the regime in peril. This is most strikingly epitomised by Osama bin Laden’s disgust with the Saud regime’s decision to allow the U.S. military into the country in 1990 to deter an attack by Saddam Hussein.

    In the 1960s, it seemed as if Nasser of Egypt might be this man. But he lost in 1967.

    Nasser was built up by Suez, when the US slapped Britain down, but by doing that built up Nasser who proceeded to invade Yemen. He always said Egypt’s diversion of resources and attention against a guerilla war ran by semi official British mercenaries paid by the Saudi to fight Egypt in Yemen was a major reason for the contemporaneous Egyptian defeat of 1967. Threatening Saudi Arabia was where Nasser crossed the line as far as the US was concerned. Egypt has now been been paid off, so Iran, which is neither Arab or Sunni has taken over as the champion of the Palestinians, awhile attacking the Saudi Arabian stronghold stronghold of Sunni Arab chauvinism though Yemen.

    This short clip explains what policy the leading American strategist decided on in order to prevent the Arabs uniting, and why solving the Palestinian problem was not thought to be a good thing for the balance of power in the Middle East by Kissinger (for it was he).

    Iran won’t leave Saudi Arabia or the Palestinian advocacy –good PR among the Arabs for Persians– alone, and the Saudi populace will not stand for an infidel American Army occupying Saudi Arabia in order to protect it from Iran

    August 1958 memorandum submitted to the National Security Council by the NSC Planning Board:

    “Moreover, if we choose to combat radical Arab nationalism and to hold Persian Gulf oil by force if necessary, then a logical corollary would be to support Israel as the only pro-West power left in the Near East.”

    Israel is more of a tail wagging the (attack) dog of late, and rather than doing anything in return for all the aid it gets from America, Israel is trying to force the US to destroy Iran for the benefit of Israel. Given Trump’s current situation, there might be some domestic political benefits, but it isn’t in American geopolitical interest to go to war with Iran, so hopefully the Iranians will back off somewhat from their confrontation with Saudi Arabia.

  7. Was the Middle East better off under White Rule? The case could be made it created a more stable society which allowed better people to thrive.

    The Islamic world has some great people in it with high IQs. But they’re surrounded by a mass of mixed-race folks who appear to have undergone some dysgenics.

    It’s ironic that one arm of Jewish activism sought to put Jews in Palestine, while another arm worked to get rid of the very White Rule which might have made them, and everyone else, much safer.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  8. Oil geologist Lee DeGolyer’s 1944 report to FDR explained that the oil of Saudi Arabia was the greatest prize in world history.

    And if the US had any vision and colonized the area we wouldn’t have Wahabbist mosques springing up across the West like death cap mushrooms.

  9. Anonymous[278] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I started watching that again, and noted how the Jew Spielberg had made Belloc into a caricatured villain. I had read one book of his but other than that, wondered what SS’s problem was.

    But self-worship is not enough, and the forces which are making for the destruction of our culture, notably the Jewish Communist propaganda from Moscow, have a likelier future before them than our old-fashioned patriotism.

    Ding ding ding!

    As to the meat of this post…

    Modern armies need higher IQ to function competitively. That is, if their hands are not tied. That and consanguinity possibly are Achilles heels of Islam.

    In modern times Islam seems mainly resurgent based on the weakness of whites in white countries, shackled as they are under ZOG media and democracies. We admit the Muslim Hejira here because we are cowardly, we have too much empathy, we are porn and phone addicted. Some PT boats and the willingness to use them would end the invasion across the Med, as others have remarked. In other countries it would require the stomach to intern and repatriate, similar to domestic WW2 era USA.

    But atheist/reform Jews have also become weakened. They are also porn addicted, childless, decadent. How long can their empire of sorts last? The whites who do decide to build the next generation, what will that generation look like? We have lasted a long time and I don’t count us out yet. Arminius didn’t need Christianity to blunt the sword of Rome, and the right man will emerge at the right time using the right strategy and tactics. We must play our cards carefully.

  10. IHTG says:

    It’s probably easier to forecast the trajectory of the Muslim world than that of the Western world.

  11. Anonymous[293] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve seen really competent Muslim doctors engineers and scholars in the West so yes, the threat that these people well organize better in the future and cause problems for the rest of the world is definitely on the table

  12. Jake says:

    How might Chesterton and Belloc have made such a prediction?

    They were very smart. And they were Catholic (Chesterton was Catholic in heart and mind decades before actually converting). And they were not intellectually or spiritually WASP in any meaningful sense. They were thus able to see what WASAP culture was and did, caused, in the world.

    They knew, for example, what I have posted at UNZ several times: that no later than the height of mod-Victorianism, the Brit WASP Elites had divided into 2 camps of philo-Semites, The first, the original that was pure Anglo-Saxon Puritan, was pro-Jewish. The ‘young Turk’ Brit WASPs were pro-Arabic and pro-Islamic.

    The fruits of the Judaizing heresy of Anglo-Saxon Puritanism – the Anglo-Zionist Empire, that has a wing that will always back Arabs and Islam.

  13. A parsimonious explanation is that Belloc was simply wrong. Maybe the apparent past Islamic superiority is a fiction, and so there is nothing strange about current Islamic backwardness. Or maybe Islam of that time and current times did not dispose people equally to worldly success.

    A less parsimonious fantasy: the rise of distillation changed typical inebriation from something mild that could be ubiquitous to something more serious that happened in between moments of sober work, leveling the playing field with the Islamic world and unleashing latent qualities of Christiandom.

    • Replies: @Alden
  14. Islam will thrive because it is much more peaceful and healthy than Christianity

    Islam is Jew friendly kind generous spiritual encouraging of families and loving

    Christianity is anti-Semitic mean selfish worldly perverse encouraging of child molesttation and hateful

  15. anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    Look at a map and highlight every place that “needs diversity”, is a “propositional nation”, where “ideals” determine national identity, with race-neutral mass immigration – it’s ONLY wherever white people are!

    Now highlight places that are homogeneous, ethnicity-based immigration and national identity, with the majority right to self preference and preservation (‘racism’) – that’s where non-white people are!

    This is not ‘anti racist’, it’s anti-white. It’s not ‘diversity’, it’s white g-

    Even at just 10% of the global population, becoming minorities in our own countries, facing gang rape and literal torture as minorities in South Africa, this fanaticism has no end.

  16. There is nothing in the Mohammedan civilization itself which is hostile to the development of scientific knowledge or of mechanical aptitude. I have seen some good artillery work in the hands of Mohammedan students of that arm; I have seen some of the best driving and maintenance of mechanical road transport conducted by Mohammedans. There is nothing inherent to Mohammedanism to make it incapable of modern science and modern war.

    Belloc had this wrong. While the ‘Mohammedans’ were quite technically creative up to his reign, an Islamic caliph hundreds of years ago ruled that science inquiry questioned Allah and his wisdom, apparently a no-no, and so curiosity and innovation came to a halt. This is starkly apparent in the Istanbul Museum of the History of Science and Technology in Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Museum_of_the_History_of_Science_and_Technology_in_Islam

    I visited on a hot summer day about a decade ago. Incredible display of mechanical innovation from many years ago (like ancient hydraulic screws) … and then it abruptly stopped. It was a sizable museum yet there was only a handful of visitors — no Turkish natives, tellingly — to complement a fair number of bored staff looking over the proceedings. And fittingly, the air conditioning wasn’t working.

    In stark contrast, across the courtyard in front of the science museum, there was a tower where some Islamic grandee had housed his legendary harem. The line to enter that display was maybe an hour long, practically all natives.

    Additionally on Islamic technology, I’ve read that even during its heyday the Ottoman Empire bought their critical military arms from European suppliers.

    And, on a final note, for a fantastic perspective on Islamic decline one should read What Went Wrong by the late Bernard Lewis.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Thanks: TomSchmidt
  17. George says:

    “The bad work begun at the Reformation”

    A common line of reasoning from Catholic apologists like Belloc, and current YouTube theologian E Micheal Jones, is that Protestantism was little more than asset stripping (a modern term). The Catholics have been predicting the decline and fall of Protestantism, as ‘unsustainable’ (a modern term), from the reformation onward.

    “The first act of the Reformers, wherever they were successful, was to allow the rich to seize these funds. And the intensity of the fighting everywhere depended upon the determination of those who had looted the Church to keep their loot, and of those who tried to restore the Church to recover the Church wealth.

    That is why in England there was so very little fighting. The English people as a whole were little affected in doctrine by the early Reformation, but the monasteries had been dissolved and their property had passed to the lords of the villages and the town merchants. The same is true of many of the Swiss cantons. The French lords of villages, that is the noble class (what are called in England “the Squires”), and the greater nobles above them, were anxious to share in the loot.

    The French Crown, dreading the increase of power which this loot would give to the class immediately below it, resisted the movement, hence the French religious wars; while in England a child King and two women succeeding each other on the throne permitted the rich to get away with the Church spoils. Hence the absence of religious wars in England.

    It was this universal robbery of the Church, following upon the religious revolution, which gave the period of conflict the character it had.”

    http://www.traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Information/What_was_the_Reformation.html

  18. @Sean

    India’s army is quite stupid. They purchased a small initial run of 777 arty, the current US towed 155 tubes, in use all the time, and promptly blew one up. Their tanks and rifles break all the time. Their troops are just not smart.

    Meanwhile the Pakistan army also has stupid troops, but they kept the sepoy army model from the Brits and just moved their highly educated officers in, in the place of the British.

  19. Anonymous[185] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Enoch Powell, for one, *definitely* saw massive third world immigration into Britain coming.

  20. My guess is that Belloc, a literary intellectual, underestimated just how much military power would be depending upon both technical and organizational skills.

    I’d go a bit further and say Belloc was writing at a point prior to the development of the high-precision engineering capabilities that are required to field and operate a modern military.

    By and large, the societies under discussion here simply do not have the indigenous electrical/electronic, industrial, materials, mechanical, and software engineering capabilities required to develop modern, state-of-the-art military systems.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
  21. So this is not at all bad as a forecast.

    A forecast that fails even to mention the Shia and that leaves Iran out completely is “not bad as a forecast”?

    Yes, the bit predicting something like Pakistan is OK, but in 1936 it was only a decade away from the British collapse in South Asia. If he’d made the prediction in, say, 1914, it would have been more impressive.

    The “prediction” about the appeal of socialism/leftism falls in the same category. Not quite a statement of the contemporary obvious but close.

    Also, nothing about the Arab reaction to the incipient Jewish conquest of Palestine? Or did you just excise that?

    The most insightful prediction has nothing to do with Islam:

    “… the forces which are making for the destruction of our culture, notably the Jewish Communist propaganda from Moscow, have a likelier future before them than our old-fashioned patriotism.”

    Of course, the Jewish propaganda from Moscow has been supplanted by the Jewish propaganda from Washington and Jerusalem, but that’s a distinction without a difference.

  22. I don’t believe in resurgence of “Islamic power”. They are of necessity pre-modern; they’re destined to remain pre-modern (incompatible with the power that lies in the modern world (education, democracy, science, technology, liberty, free thinking discourse,…). Their so called “strength” lies only in Western weakness toward them. If only modern societies, from US to Japan, decide to subdue them at any cost- they’re finished.

    Just, prognostication is a futile job:
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/01/tech/2020-predictions-we-got-wrong-scli-intl/index.html

    Nanobots, ape chauffeurs and flights to Pluto. The predictions for 2020 we got horribly wrong

    • Thanks: Nodwink
  23. I guess Süleiman Kanûni had better “engineers” (renegade Venetians, BTW).
    In his old days he fell for a “Russian” (yeah, right) slave and begat Selim the Drunkard, and it was downhill from then on; there´s nothing “inexplicable” about that.

    (This is not to complain, though Vienna has fallen to the Third Turkish Siege 😛 )

    Mustafa Kemal, like Reza Shah, did not live long enough; but as men of that caliber get rarer, opportunities grow … if the sheer population pressure is not enough.

  24. You glossed over the most pertinent line:

    ” the forces which are making for the destruction of our culture, notably the Jewish Communist propaganda from Moscow, ”

    80 years ago the Jews were recognizably the destroyers of Western Civilization.

    The extent that Muslims are a threat to the people of the West is a function of the degree to which such a threat is of use to the rulers of the West.

    It is no surprise that the supply of exploding Mohammad’s has vanished because the deep state has been so busy trying to unseat Trump that the FBI and CIA haven’t had time to make any.

    The FBI’s counter terrorism chief has been spending all his time sending 20,000 plus tweets ranting about the Orange Man to the bimbo he was banging.

    Meanwhile, the real enemy continues not only unopposed but unnamed. A large step back in 80 years..

  25. utu says:

    This might be the answer to Belloc questions. Binge worthy Messiah series!

  26. As if Roman Catholicism is the bulwark opposing the corruption of the modern West, and the Reformation the reason for every decline. Rather, they diddled while the New Rome burned.

    • Replies: @jim jones
  27. @Sean

    “American geopolitical interest to go to war with Iran, so hopefully the Iranians will back off somewhat from their confrontation with Saudi Arabia.”

    and it isn’t in the mullahs best interests to mess with the status quo

  28. Based Belloc.

    In the place of the old Christian enthusiasms of Europe there came, for a time, the enthusiasm for nationality, the religion of patriotism. But self-worship is not enough, and the forces which are making for the destruction of our culture, notably the Jewish Communist propaganda from Moscow, have a likelier future before them than our old-fashioned patriotism.

  29. @Sean

    Unfortunately for the Iranians, they need Saudi Arabia to keep the welfare system going, much like the US.

  30. JMcG says:

    The 1979 seizure of the grand mosque in Mecca seems to have been mostly forgotten in the US, but it profoundly shocked the Saudis. The fact that the French special forces had to be called in to dislodge a handful of Muslim extremists reflected poorly on the Saudi military. This was happening at the same time as the Islamic revolution in Iran.
    I remember reading an assessment by the US government in my High School library in 79 or 80 which asserted that the rise of Islamic governments around the Middle East was likely to be the most serious geopolitical problem in the near future.
    I was incredulous. I could never have imagined how deeply we have sunk ourselves in that rotten quagmire.

    • Replies: @anonynous
  31. Andrew M says:

    There’s a contradiction here. On the one hand, he claims nationalism is just a temporary, inferior replacement for Christianity:

    In the place of the old Christian enthusiasms of Europe there came, for a time, the enthusiasm for nationality, the religion of patriotism. But self-worship is not enough …

    but on the other hand, all the examples you cited (Ataturk, Saud) have been nationalists first and foremost; merely co-opting Islam in order to gain power.

    Tribalism and nationalism go back much further than organized religion. Christianity was the historical aberration, not nationalism.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  32. “When Suleiman the Magnificent was besieging Vienna he had better artillery, better energies and better everything than his opponents; Islam was still in the field the material superior of Christendom – at least it was the superior in fighting power and fighting instruments. That was within a very few years of the opening of the eighteenth century”

    Suleiman the Magnificent reigned from 1520-1566, and besieged Vienna in 1529, hardly only a few years from the opening of the eighteenth century. During the seventeenth century is when Europe finally began to pull away from Islam in terms of military power and technological superiority, and this was decisively demonstrated by the eighteenth century. But Belloc got his centuries wrong regarding Suleiman the Magnificent. Of course, one could always state that since Islam failed to take Vienna in 1529, which also marked the end of Islam’s attempt to gain more territory in Europe, that they were no longer the clear superior in terms of fighting power and instruments.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  33. I’ve got only one quibble in this otherwise very good post. Didn’t Ataturk rule as a secularist, and modernize Turkey by doing so? Were he around today, I’d love to give him a smile of and an encouraging slap on the back, “attaTurk!”

    • Replies: @anon
    , @J.Ross
  34. RickinJax says:

    Pale Ebenezer thought it wrong to fight.
    Roaring Bill, who killed him, thought it right.

    • Replies: @Sean
  35. @Sean

    This is a very good précis. As described, there is a good argument to make that Kissinger was simply following realpolitik in leaving the Palestinians out of a wider Near/Middle East political settlement. And I find that argument fairly convincing.

    Still, I can’t help noticing the coincidence that the Arabs Kissinger left out in the cold just happened to be the same Arabs who inconveniently lived on the land coveted by Kissinger’s cousins in the region. Also, the fact the outside authority used in the linked documentary to rationalize Kissinger’s choices just happens to be yet another ethnic cousin who also wafts effortlessly between Washington’s power establishment, elite academia, prestige media outlets and both “liberal” and “conservative” foundations and think tanks, just heightens the frisson of coincidence.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Dave Pinsen
    , @obvious
  36. @Denny Speights

    Sure, that’s what I was thinking …

  37. inertial says:

    After a certain point, perhaps year 1000, all Muslim successes were successes of nomadic, or recently nomadic, Turks. Conversion of wild Turkic tribes was Islam’s biggest coup. If it didn’t happen, this religion would’ve faded long time ago.

  38. The Roman Catholic friends Hilaire Belloc and G.K. Chesterton were among the few writers in English in the first half of the 20th Century to predict the return of Islamic enthusiasm in the second half of the 20th Century.

    Lothrop Stoddard was another.

    • Replies: @Lot
  39. Dumbo says:
    @Denny Speights

    LOL. Don’t they teach spelling and punctuation to hasbara trolls, or is this just a bot?

  40. SFG says:
    @Jim from Boston

    The few Muslims I’ve read who talk about this blame al-Ghazali for out-arguing ibn-Rushd (better known here as Averroes) in The Incoherence of the Philosophers.

  41. syonredux says:
    @Jake

    How might Chesterton and Belloc have made such a prediction?

    They were very smart. And they were Catholic (Chesterton was Catholic in heart and mind decades before actually converting). And they were not intellectually or spiritually WASP in any meaningful sense. They were thus able to see what WASAP culture was and did, caused, in the world.

    Dunno.In 1921, Uber-WASP Lothrop Stoddard had similar notions about the recrudescence of Islam:

    The entire world of Islam is to-day in profound ferment. From Morocco to China and from Turkestan to the Congo, the 250,000,000 followers of the Prophet Mohammed are stirring to new ideas, new impulses, new aspirations. A gigantic transformation is taking place whose results must affect all mankind.

    This transformation was greatly stimulated by the late war. But it began long before. More than a hundred years ago the seeds were sown, and ever since then it has been evolving; at first slowly and obscurely; later more rapidly and perceptibly; until to-day, under the stimulus of Armageddon, it has burst into sudden and startling bloom.

    -THE NEW WORLD OF ISLAM

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/24107/24107-h/24107-h.htm

    • Replies: @syonredux
  42. an alien Jewish colony upon Palestine

    Hebrew and the Old Testament are less alien to Palestine than are Arabic and the Koran. The only major religion indigenous to the area is Christianity.

    Belloc is right that the Arabs are angry. What their paid (and, incredibly, unpaid) defenders can’t grasp is how much of the world is angry, justifiably, at the Arabs. Sit down with a Copt sometime.

    In other words, Pakistan, which now has nuclear weapons.

    Which would make a resurgence of Balochistan’s independence movement quite interesting. That province’s parliament, by the way, reserves quotas of seats for women and for infidels. I don’t understand this; Urdu you?

  43. @Jim from Boston

    Additionally on Islamic technology, I’ve read that even during its heyday the Ottoman Empire bought their critical military arms from European suppliers.

    Cf. Lenin, capitalists, and rope.

  44. syonredux says:
    @Jake

    In Greenmantle (1916), the Presbyterian Scot John Buchan expressed similar ideas…..

    Sir Walter lay back in an arm-chair and spoke to the ceiling. It was the best story, the clearest and the fullest, I had ever got of any bit of the war. He told me just how and why and when Turkey had left the rails. I heard about her grievances over our seizure of her ironclads, of the mischief the coming of the Goeben had wrought, of Enver and his precious Committee and the way they had got a cinch on the old Turk. When he had spoken for a bit, he began to question me.

    ‘You are an intelligent fellow, and you will ask how a Polish adventurer, meaning Enver, and a collection of Jews and gipsies should have got control of a proud race. The ordinary man will tell you that it was German organization backed up with German money and German arms. You will inquire again how, since Turkey is primarily a religious power, Islam has played so small a part in it all. The Sheikh-ul-Islam is neglected, and though the Kaiser proclaims a Holy War and calls himself Hadji Mohammed Guilliamo, and says the Hohenzollerns are descended from the Prophet, that seems to have fallen pretty flat. The ordinary man again will answer that Islam in Turkey is becoming a back number, and that Krupp guns are the new gods. Yet—I don’t know. I do not quite believe in Islam becoming a back number.’

    ‘Look at it in another way,’ he went on. ‘If it were Enver and Germany alone dragging Turkey into a European war for purposes that no Turk cared a rush about, we might expect to find the regular army obedient, and Constantinople. But in the provinces, where Islam is strong, there would be trouble. Many of us counted on that. But we have been disappointed. The Syrian army is as fanatical as the hordes of the Mahdi. The Senussi have taken a hand in the game. The Persian Moslems are threatening trouble. There is a dry wind blowing through the East, and the parched grasses wait the spark. And that wind is blowing towards the Indian border. Whence comes that wind, think you?’

    Have you an explanation, Hannay?’ he asked again.

    ‘It looks as if Islam had a bigger hand in the thing than we thought,’ I said. ‘I fancy religion is the only thing to knit up such a scattered empire.’

    But supposing they had got some tremendous sacred sanction—some holy thing, some book or gospel or some new prophet from the desert, something which would cast over the whole ugly mechanism of German war the glamour of the old torrential raids which crumpled the Byzantine Empire and shook the walls of Vienna? Islam is a fighting creed, and the mullah still stands in the pulpit with the Koran in one hand and a drawn sword in the other. Supposing there is some Ark of the Covenant which will madden the remotest Moslem peasant with dreams of Paradise? What then, my friend?’

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/559/559-h/559-h.htm

  45. LondonBob says:

    Of course Islamism has often been promoted by us, as the alternative to nationalism and socialism. The current troubles are a consequence of the ‘Redirection’ started in 2007 when the empowering of the Shia in Iraq was to be counterbalanced by the beating up of Shia everywhere else from Bahrain, to Yemen, to Syria and to Iran itself. Apart from Bahrain this hasn’t worked and has backfired.

  46. @Jim from Boston

    Agree. I too dissent from Belloc’s fatalism-isn’t-fatal argument. (I would have characterized the Islamic meta-philosophy as “occasionalism”, but never mind.) The “inshallah” stereotype (basically Arabic for “whatever”, but with religious undertone) is real. Not doing safety checks, exceeding design specs, not synching comm freqs, not cleaning equipment, … in the pre-modern era, no problem. In the era of powerfully mechanized death machines, fatal … to the user. And besides the hazard to the users (i.e., Muslim combatants), there is no serious development of military technology in the Muslim world, nor can there be so long as occasionalism—er, fatalism prevails. Their mil-tech is all imported; only the fanaticism is native. And this is before getting into the HBD aspects…

    People do not always appreciate how weapons technology—the single material fact underlying all modern geopolitical calculations—has increased literally* exponentially since the 18th century. Up until then, including the entire time of Islamic dominance, an ancient army could have time-traveled to any other time and place, and after adjusting to local conditions, acquitted itself reasonably well. But since the era of the still-ongoing military revolution, fuggeddaboudit.

    Belloc himself summed this up when he wrote,

    Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim gun, and they have not.

    Of course now we’ve given them the Maxim gun too (what kind of ruthless oppressor would share the keys to the kingdom like that?!?) But, we’ve moved on in the meantime. Now what rhymes with “GAU-8“?

    Unfortunately, as readers here know too well, there are ample signs that the moral, intellectual and biological underpinnings of that exponential revolution of the last few centuries are not just plateauing, but reversing. And after that we may well be back to victory of most fanatic.

    When that happens, it will not
    Matter who’s Maxim, and who is not.

    *I mean “literal” in the literal sense here. Sadly this must be explained nowadays. This is symptomatic of our problem.

  47. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jesse

    They also of course strictly prohibit Muslims and Jews from settling in china in any meaningful sense of course.

  48. Anonymous[140] • Disclaimer says:

    Apparently, there are 101 says to marinate a Maronite.

  49. Romanian says:

    Off-topic – Director Terry Gilliam strikes back?

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jul/04/terry-gilliam-on-diversity-bbc-monty-python-black-lesbian

    Speaking at a press conference at the Karlovy Vary film festival, where he was presenting his new film The Man Who Killed Don Quixote, Gilliam said: “It made me cry: the idea that … no longer six white Oxbridge men can make a comedy show. Now we need one of this, one of that, everybody represented… this is bullshit. I no longer want to be a white male, I don’t want to be blamed for everything wrong in the world: I tell the world now I’m a black lesbian… My name is Loretta and I’m a BLT, a black lesbian in transition.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/jan/04/terry-gilliam-metoo-witch-hunt-backlash

    Gilliam said he was “tired, as a white male, of being blamed for everything that is wrong with the world”.

    On the #MeToo movement, he said: “I want people to take responsibility and not just constantly point a finger at somebody else, saying, ‘You’ve ruined my life.’”

    He continued: “#MeToo is a witch-hunt. I really feel there were a lot of people, decent people, or mildly irritating people, who were getting hammered. That’s wrong. I don’t like mob mentality.”

  50. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Stoddard did it better with his emphasis on demographics.

    The Honorable Mayor Khan of Londistan says hi:

  51. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    Lothrop Stoddard on Islam:

    Islam’s warlike vigor has impressed men’s minds ever since the far-off days when its pristine fervor bore the Fiery Crescent from France to China. But with the passing cycles this fervor waned, and a century ago Islam seemed plunged in the stupor of senile decay. .. Yet at this darkest hour a voice came crying from out the vast Arabian desert, the cradle of Islam, calling the Faithful to better things. This puritan reformer was the famous Abd-el-Wahab, and his followers, known as Wahabis, soon spread the length and breadth of the Mohammedan world, purging Islam of its sloth and rekindling the fervor of its olden days. Thus began the great Mohammedan Revival.

    That revival, like all truly great regenerative movements, had its political as well as its spiritual side. One of the first things which struck the reformers was the political weakness of the Moslem World and its increasing subjection to the Christian West… The result in Islam was a fusing of religion and patriotism into a ‘sacred union’ for the combined spiritual regeneration and political emancipation of the Moslem World…

    No more zealous Moslems are to be found in all the ranks of Islam than those who have sojourned longest in Europe and acquired the most intimate knowledge of its sciences and ways. Mohammedans are keenly alive to the ever-shifting uncertainties and divisions that distract the Christianity of today, and of the woeful instability of modern European institutions.

    The Rising Tide of Color: The Threat Against White World-Supremacy (1920)

  52. syonredux says:
    @Lot

    And let not Europe, the white brood-land, the heart of the white world, think itself immune. In the last analysis, the self-same peril menaces it too. This has long been recognized by far-sighted men. For many years economists and sociologists have discussed the possibility of Asiatic immigration into Europe. Low as wages and living standards are in many European countries, they are yet far higher than in the congested East, while the rapid progress of social betterment throughout Europe must further widen the gap and make the white continent seem a more and more desirable haven

    -Lothrop Stoddard, The Rising Tide of Color: The Threat Against White World-Supremacy (1920)

    Here we see the limits of prophecy, as Stoddard did not foresee the Black African tide surging into Europe….

    • Replies: @Lot
  53. @Anonymous

    Modern armies need higher IQ to function competitively. That is, if their hands are not tied. That and consanguinity possibly are Achilles heels of Islam.

    Time and time again, arabs have shown themselves to be utterly incompetent militarily and unable to field a cohesive fighting force.

    The officers are selected for family and political connections. They disdain their own troops, who equally have no respect for the officers. Everyone steals everything and does the minimum to get by without getting shot.

    They pass blame and arbitrarily punish one another with no regard for creating incentives for proper action. They also seem uninterested and incapable of setting up or executing any kind of effective, reality-based training programs.

    As a result, resources are almost irrelevant. Arab states simply can’t field an effective army.

    For example, the Egyptans performed terribly against the Israelis despite massive numerical advantage. The Iraqi army that we so expensively trained and equipped threw down their weapons and ran away when confronted by a rabble of ISIS terrorists in 2014. Also Iraq under Saddam couldn’t do much against Iran, despite huge advantages in tanks and planes.

    The Turks or Persians may do better, but the Arab armies are useless, except for intimidating civilians.

  54. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I happened to notice this post, and indeed Belloc was one of Britain’s most prominent and prolific public intellectuals a century ago.

    Frankly, I was only vaguely aware of him until earlier this year, and although he supposedly wrote more than 150 books, I suspect that his substantial disappearance from the mainstream narrative was due to a particular one published in 1922 discussing an entirely different Abrahamic religion. He makes some interesting points, and I added it to the HTML books collection a few months ago:

    https://www.unz.com/book/hilaire_belloc__the-jews/

    Unfortunately, I couldn’t locate his updated 1937 edition that includes a long introduction focusing on the Spanish Civil War, which provides fascinating claims I’d never seen anywhere else:

  55. AaronB says:

    I have a faint distaste for these early 20th century alarmists – Stoddard, Belloc, and many others. Some of what they say is right, but they have this defeatist tone that seems so spineless. They seem scared of everyone – Muslims, Asians, the Yellow Peril. It is not the attitude of a self-confident civilization.

    One can point out threats without being pathetic about it. Their spiritual heirs are those limp wristed Westerners who go into convulsions about the mighty vengeance Iran will visit on us if we so much as scratch a hair on an Iranian generals head. There are good reasons not to go to war with Iran, but Iran is not a formidable foe. And besides, there is a way of talking about things that preserves your manly dignity.

    The early 20th century was the era of Spengler and the idea of decline was everywhere in the air. It’s interesting to be reminded how Western fatalism was already a growing cancer.

    • Agree: anonynous
  56. anon[182] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    a long introduction focusing on the Spanish Civil War, which provides fascinating claims

    What sort of claims?

  57. @Almost Missouri

    Holy smoking barrel … it all comes full circle … the Belloc and Maxim connection!!

    You’ll love reading this niche classic, “The Social History of the Machine Gun.”

    https://www.forgottenweapons.com/book-review-social-history-of-the-machine-gun/

    Sounds like Belloc may have been over-awed by the machine gun, which I guess was sold to Islamic entities too and everybody that’s got some ready cash. That said…

    As far as ‘future weapons’, the most devastating ones may not be necessarily be based on lead and sundry explosives powered by gunpowder … perhaps they can just drop from the sky in a very controlled fashion, under the force of gravity from many miles up, and pierce a modest hole in the ground where you, or your proxy (cell phone), happen to be. You could just be driving to/from an airport with your buddies, or maybe giving an inspirational call to arms for thousands of fervent supporters … one could never know, and that could be a good thing … in the right hands of course.

    Gravity and the latent energy that it produces in falling objects shouldn’t be overlooked. I’ve read somewhere that among the first practical uses of the hot-air balloon was in France where they used to just go up and drop small handheld bombs and even rocks on advancing armies.

    The threat of justice from the sky … this force works in both monotheistic religions and innovative weaponry. (Y’know, Trump oughta put something together on this “force from space“.)

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  58. Dumbo says:
    @Ron Unz

    Maybe this? It is the introduction to the 3rd edition in 1937 and it does appear to mention the Spanish Civil War.

    https://archive.org/details/IntroductoryChapterToThe3rdEdtionOfTheJewsByHilaireBelloc

    Incidentally, was the name of the Belloq character in Raider of the Lost Arc really inspired by Hilaire Belloc?

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  59. syonredux says:

    Unfortunately, I couldn’t locate his updated 1937 edition that includes a long introduction focusing on the Spanish Civil War, which provides fascinating claims I’d never seen anywhere else:

    If anyone’s curious, it can be read here:

    https://archive.org/details/IntroductoryChapterToThe3rdEdtionOfTheJewsByHilaireBelloc

    • Thanks: JMcG
    • Replies: @Lot
  60. Rapparee says:

    G.K. Chesterton’s The Flying Inn was arguably even more prescient, though he never really intended it as such. The angry mob of working-class English drunks who save the day at the end remind me a little of a more subdued Edwardian version of the English Defence League. Particularly funny is the Turkish scholar who tries to claim that all of traditional English culture- right down to the village pubs- actually stems from Islamic roots. This seems absurd, but we now live in a world where Muslims claim to have invented English common law.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  61. Christianity led to no cousin marriage and fish on fridays. Islam led to cousin marriage and one month starvation each year. One leads to higher IQ and one to lower.

  62. Dumbo says:
    @Dumbo

    Incidentally, was the name of the Belloq character in Raider of the Lost Arc really inspired by Hilaire Belloc?

    I ask because it would be quite an irony, and pretty unfair, considering that he is presented a an ally of the Nazis in the movie, while the actual Belloc several times has criticized Nazi policies against the Jews, particularly in the Introduction mentioned and linked above.

  63. BB753 says:

    Yet very few people foresaw the rise of China. Except Napoleon Bonaparte.

  64. Bumpkin says:

    It’s funny, just today I was thinking that Sailer is a kind of nationalist preacher, looking to replace the tribes and religions of the past with “the enthusiasm for nationality, the religion of patriotism.” A doomed enterprise, just like others point out about an Islamicist revival above, in this highly fractured era of the internet, where even in third-world countries you see youths glued to their phones and completely checked out of the street in front of them.

    History often turns upon unexpected personalities.

    I’d chalk much more up to movements and technologies, but individuals certainly played a significant role.

    The era of mass ideologies that Belloc evaluates is over, whether religious, tribal, national, whatever. The internet is not a broadcast medium, so the nature of the current technology has a giant role. Those clinging to those past, mass tribal affiliations are a narrow, old niche that is dying off.

  65. Lot says:
    @syonredux

    “African tide surging into Europe”

    Did anyone warn about this before Enoch Powell (1968) and Jean Raspail (1973)?

    Mass migration of African and Muslim peasants, at a demographic replacement scale, is just so magnificently stupid, it seems to me it was impossible to predict until it actually was getting started.

    I believe it truly started around 1961 with the Turkish migration to Germany:

    “ In the mid-twentieth century, West Germany experienced the Wirtschaftswunder (“economic miracle”); however, the construction of the Berlin Wall in 1961 exacerbated West Germany’s labour crisis by restricting the flow of immigrants from East Germany. Consequently, in the same year, the West German government signed a labour recruitment agreement with the Republic of Turkey on 30 October 1961, and officially invited the Turkish people to emigrate to the country. By 1961–62, German employers played a crucial role in pressuring the State to end the two-year limitation clause of the “Gastarbeiter” (“guest worker”) agreement so that Turkish workers could stay in West Germany for longer.”

    Volkswagens rotting in the fields!

  66. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    Unfortunately, I couldn’t locate his updated 1937 edition that includes a long introduction focusing on the Spanish Civil War, which provides fascinating claims I’d never seen anywhere else:

    Roy Campbell wrote in his autobiography about German emigres who had settled in Spain after Hitler came to power (so I suppose Jews) having been responsible for a great deal of social and political agitation in the run up to the Spanish Civil War

  67. IHTG says:
    @Lot

    It’s interesting and not commented enough on that early 20th century race nationalists were terrified of the Yellow Peril, but didn’t seem to think foreign blacks and browns (including Latin Americans) were much of a problem. Remember how the famous 1924 Immigration Act didn’t actually restrict migration from the Americas.

  68. J.Ross says:

    Muslim forces with “better everything” routinely got into trouble because of what is illustrated by that Anthony Quinn character in Lawrence of Arabia: there’s actually no equivalent to proper European nationalist society, it’s ad hoc treasure seekers gathered by a temporary enthusiasm, so your materially superior army dissolves to sort, protect, or fight over loot. Europeans became better per man because Christianity, which creates discipline, is an objectively better culture-shaping technology than Islam, which is all about rational permissiveness.
    Is there a Muslim equivalent to a baseball team’s worth of dirty, under-supplied, underfed, sleep-deprived Spaniards routing the combined host of a continental empire in a couple of hours? That’s something even the Mongols couldn’t do. When the Mongols destroyed old Russia, they had a huge, disciplined, specialized, organized force, they were working with years of intelligence, and their enemies were hardly united.

  69. Istevefan says:
    @Anonymous

    The trouble is that, for the most part, the world’s Muslim population is eager to ‘vote with their feet’ and to high tail the ‘house of peace’ ’

    Who says they are voting? Mass immigration is akin to warfare, and their aim is to overrun and dominate what was once Christendom. They came close to doing this over the years militarily with 700 year occupations in Iberia and 400 plus in the Balkans.

    Now they seemed poised for another run, but with a different tactic.

  70. Lot says:
    @syonredux

    Just read it. Nothing special, however anything written by intelligent men as WWII was getting started is interesting and provides some insight into what people were thinking then.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Peterike
  71. Anonymous[180] • Disclaimer says:

    We have seen how the material political power of Islam declined very rapidly during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

    Did it decline or fail to keep up with the West? Maybe the Muslim remained where it was while the West advanced technologically. If someone stands still where he is while you walk forward, he’s not moving backward even though he will increasingly fall back behind you.

    Cultures spring from religions; ultimately the vital force which maintains any culture is its philosophy, its attitude toward the universe; the decay of a religion involves the decay of the culture corresponding to it – we see that most clearly in the breakdown of Christendom today. The bad work begun at the Reformation is bearing its final fruit in the dissolution of our ancestral doctrines – the very structure of our society is dissolving.

    But the real benefit of Christianity was not that culture sprung from it but the culture had something to fall back on when things went south. Christian moralism has stood in the way of cultural inspiration and creativity. Even though Renaissance artists created many religious works, their inspiration was neo-paganism. But paganism has a way of becoming decadent, nihilistic, and idolatrous, a narcissism of power and beauty. Christianity provided some balance to such tendencies.
    The main creative source of Western Civilization is Greco-Roman and even Germanic roots. But creativity isn’t necessarily moral; it’s also elitist and belongs to a few. As such, it can’t for long serve as the basis of a stable civilization. Morality must be the core values of a people, and that is where Christianity proved most valuable. Not because culture sprung from it — Western Civilization was already great and accomplished before its conversion to Christianity. As for the Reformation, it was a response to the corruption and decay of the Catholic Church that came to rely more on rituals and idols than creed and conviction. For awhile, Reformation restored Christian passion.

    In the place of the old Christian enthusiasms of Europe there came, for a time, the enthusiasm for nationality, the religion of patriotism. But self-worship is not enough, and the forces which are making for the destruction of our culture, notably the Jewish Communist propaganda from Moscow, have a likelier future before them than our old-fashioned patriotism.

    But patriotism is not about self-worship. It’s not about worship at all. It’s about pride and preservation of heritage. It is not a religion in and of itself. Also, spirituality can be a part of patriotism and nationalism. This is most evident in Judaism and its Covenant that fuses tribalism with spiritualism. In a similar vein, Christianity can be made part of national heritage, i.e. while Christianity is for all the world, each people have their own story of how they came to the faith, and that particularity within universality should have been stressed.

    In the end, Jewish capitalism turned out to be far more damaging to Western Man. Though Jews were heavily involved in communism, its triumph came to suppress Jewish power that relies on individual enterprise, tribal networking, and meritocracy to realize its full potential. In all communist nations, the Jews eventually lost out to the non-Jewish majority as communism is about The People.

    The reason why nationalism came more naturally to Europeans is because European societies developed from agriculture. In contrast, Arabs were nomadic and couldn’t put down roots in any part of the desert. They were movers, traders, and raiders. Nationalism began to fade among Europeans with increasing urbanization and globalism that made it easy for Europeans to move abroad and for non-Europeans to move into Europe.

    History often turns upon unexpected personalities. The West has been fairly lucky that no outstanding man has arisen in Islamic world. Since 1936, probably the two most remarkable personalities have been Nasser, who was more of a Bonapartist modernizer demagogue than an Islamist, and the Ayatollah Khomeini.

    This may be true of past history when Muslims had a chance of taking over the West like the Mongols also nearly did. But in the modern era, why would the emergence of a great Muslim leader be bad for the West? Did Ayatollah call for invasion of the West? No, all the stuff about ‘great satan’ was mostly rhetorical. Ataturk wanted peace with the West and westernization for Turks.

    The main reason why Nasser and others lost out is because Jews gained power in the West and used West as a proxy against the Muslim World. Israel was a Western creation of Jews and whites who supported, defended, and supplied Zionism.

    The West, under Jewish Power, also crushed Hussein who, though a horrid person, did much to modernize Iraq. Living standards for most Iraqis were pretty decent prior to the Gulf War.
    For all the problems among Arabs, their societies would be far more accomplished if not for Jewish control of the West and use of Western power as proxy of Jewish agenda. Iraq today would be formidable if not for Gulf War, sanctions, and the invasion. Iraq was also building nuclear power plants in the 80s before they were bombed by Israeli jets with US support.
    Syria would be in much better straits if not for Neocon agenda of sending and aiding terrorists. Gaddafi made real gains in Libya before Jewish-ruled West destroyed it. And Iranian economy would be much stronger if not for sanctions forced by Jewish-controlled US. If it were Jews vs Muslims, Jews would not necessarily win even though, pound for pound, they are smarter than Arabs/Muslims. The real secret to Israel’s success and Muslim world’s failure is that the Jews control the West. But suppose a Muslim-controlled West sanctioned Israel for its war crimes and dropped bombs to kill Israel leaders and figures. Where would Israel be?

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Jack D
  72. Daniel H says:

    Time and time again, arabs have shown themselves to be utterly incompetent militarily and unable to field a cohesive fighting force.

    The “arab” Egyptian fighting force that thwarted the Mongols at Homs in 1281 was comprised of Mamluks – slave warriors of Turkic, central Asian origin.

    The “arabs” of the Umayyad Caliphate attacked and besieged Constantiople by land and sea two times, in 674 and 717. Now how did the the Arabs learn and master siege warfare and how to command naval fleets when just a few years before they were nothing but petty desert bandits, preying on traders and settlements, who were little more than a nusiance to both the Romans and Persians? It seems more than likely that the brains/manpower of both armies were considerably non-arab, were in fact Roman, Romans who probably though at the time that they were just fighting in civil conflict for posession of the capital and crown.

  73. @Anonymous

    “The mercantilist turbocharged harshness of reality in the west – the ‘goodies’ have a price after all – will see *their* grand daughters doing unspeakable things on PornHub.”

    Maybe, but maybe their grand-daughters will be from their kufr daughters, the product of working class Brit girls – you might even get a hereditary ‘slapper’ class, if we’ve not got one already.

    Demography is a game of last man standing, and at the moment UK Muslims are producing kids way faster than they are boiling off into godlessness. Asian Babes, a soft porn mag featuring Indian and Pakistani UK models started in 1992 by Richard Desmond, is long defunct.

    Meanwhile plenty of UK girls are doing unspeakable things on camera already.

    Off topic, Trump’s neocon advisers look like getting their war. Iran has scrapped its nuclear deal.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51001167

    Iran has declared it will no longer abide by any of the restrictions imposed by the 2015 nuclear deal.

    In a statement it said it would no longer observe limitations on its capacity for enrichment, the level of enrichment, the stock of enriched material, or research and development.

    The statement came after a meeting of the Iranian cabinet in Tehran.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  74. Rob says:
    @Ron Unz

    Hi Ron,

    I have 2 questions. First, how do you pronounce your last name? Is it ‘Unz’ or ‘Untz’? Second, why do new comments on Sailer’s site show up interspersed with the older comments? It would seem reasonable to put the comments in chronological order.

    Lastly, the bold, italics etc buttons don’t work on the iPad. The ‘more’ tag button does, though.

    Oh yeah, thanks for supporting Sailer.

  75. @Ron Unz

    I think this book was discussed by Kevin Michael Grace and Luke Ford on their show.

  76. @Lot

    Mass migration of African and Muslim peasants, at a demographic replacement scale, is just so magnificently stupid, it seems to me it was impossible to predict until it actually was getting started.

    Before the West started providing modern medicine and agriculture to Africa the idea that Sub-Saharan and North Africans would eventually outbreed us seemed extremely implausible. Germans in the 1960s assumed that the Turks and Yugoslavs would just go home.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    , @Alfa158
  77. @Peter Akuleyev

    And not just implausible. Up until WWII there was a sense among a lot of the white imperial powers that black Africans would dwindle away over time, the way American Indians did, to be replaced by the white colonizers, who were better farmers, better organized, and “entitled” to the land they knew how to exploit better than the locals.

    • Replies: @SFG
    , @Lot
  78. Alfa158 says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Up through the early part of the 20th Century Africa had not undergone a population explosion while Europe and the Anglosphere were experiencing robust growth. There was a school of thought that Africans were so inferior that they were evolutionarily obsolete, and might even eventually shrink to trivial numbers like the natives of North America.
    We can see now how quickly history can turn around. Africans are instead colonizing Europe, and North America is being colonized by the native people who maintained large populations in Latin America. People unfortunately tend to assume that the future will be like now, just more so.

  79. SFG says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Good point…why didn’t it happen? I imagine there just weren’t enough white people in Africa, or perhaps the diseases are more aggressive?

    • Replies: @syonredux
  80. syonredux says:
    @SFG

    I imagine there just weren’t enough white people in Africa, or perhaps the diseases are more aggressive?

    Disease was the main factor. Amerinds were highly vulnerable to Old World Diseases (E.g., coastal New England’s Amerind population was decimated by an epidemic shortly before the Pilgrims arrived in 1620). Europeans did not have that advantage in Black Africa.

    Peter Akuleyev:

    Up until WWII there was a sense among a lot of the white imperial powers that black Africans would dwindle away over time, the way American Indians did, to be replaced by the white colonizers,

    Stoddard thought otherwise:

    Negro fecundity is a prime factor in Africa’s future. In the savage state which until recently prevailed, black multiplication was kept down by a wide variety of checks. Both natural and social causes combined to maintain an extremely high death-rate. The negro’s political ineptitude, never rising above the tribal concept, kept black Africa a mosaic of peoples, warring savagely among themselves and widely addicted to cannibalism. Then, too, the native religions were usually sanguinary, demanding a prodigality of [Pg 91]human sacrifices. The killings ordained by negro wizards and witch-doctors sometimes attained unbelievable proportions. The combined result of all this was a wastage of life which in other races would have spelled a declining population.

    Since the establishment of white political control, however, these checks on black fecundity are no longer operative. The white rulers fight filth and disease, stop tribal wars, and stamp out superstitious abominations. In consequence, population increases by leaps and bounds, the latent possibilities being shown in the native reservations in South Africa, where tribes have increased as much as tenfold in fifty or sixty years. It is therefore practically certain that the African negroes will multiply prodigiously in the next few decades.

    Stoddard, Rising Tide of Color( 1920)

  81. “I remember reading an assessment by the US government in my High School library in 79 or 80 which asserted that the rise of Islamic governments around the Middle East was likely to be the most serious geopolitical problem in the near future.
    I was incredulous. I could never have imagined how deeply we have sunk ourselves in that rotten quagmire.”

    I remember one of the middle east events from my college years (late 1980’s), which I will slightly (significantly?) butcher due to the passage of time: I think it was the Israeli occupation of Beirut, and the negotiations to end the Israeli siege on the PLO in one portion of the city (again, the details are vague-I think this is it).

    At the time, I recall there were proposals to station US troops as peace keepers between the two groups-essentially to man checkpoints, etc, and act as a neutral border guard between them. Even as a young 19 year old, I thought what a terrible idea that would be: to get US troops involved in standing around waiting to be blown up by car bombs in the Middle East, for an unclear purpose.

    35 years later, and after 25 years in the Army, we are not only doing exactly that: we are doing exactly that, throughout the region, for an utterly incomprehensible purpose. And US troops have been dutifully getting blown up manning check points and automobile crossroads for 30 years. And it hasn’t gotten better. And we show no signs of stopping doing it.

    As a kid and young man, Army service meant going to Europe and being prepared to fight the Russians (or serving the the National Guard at home, training to do the same): maybe not wise, maybe not absolutely necessary, but certainly a comprehensible mission-defend Western Civilization.

    Military service now-literally for two generations-means going to the Middle East, for unclear purposes, and really risking death and dismemberment, for seemingly arbitrary reasons in seemingly arbitrary places (Iraq? Syria? Now Iran?). I don’t think anyone understands why we are doing it, what bad would happen if we fail, or what bad would occur if we just stop doing so.

    Utterly baffling.

    joe

  82. @George

    E Micheal Jones

    Michael. He’s not that Irish!

    https://www.quora.com/In-Gaelic-how-do-you-say-Michael
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micheal_(name)

    (Grandpa Jones was a Welshman.)

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  83. anonynous says:

    I saw this clearly leaving NYC in 1990 with racial, criminal, immigration anarchy everywhere. I predicted Islamic terrorist slaughters in New York City and elsewhere – the first being World Trade Center in truck bomb slaughter in 1993.

    Anyone with even a modest knowledge of European civilization/Christiandom’s clash with Islam resulting in the sack of Constantinople, Islam conquest of Europe, barely stopped at the Gates of Vienna Austria and then the Battle of Algiers in the 1950s resulting in the complete ethnic cleansing, genocide of all Pied Noir of all white Europeans in (what?) 1963. Why couldn’t Americans see this?

    Why did Reagan Conservatives waste the 1980s fighting our European kinsmen the Russians in Afghanistan, arming Afghan mountain Jihadists that morphed in to the Taliban. Why did our people do such stupid shi*? Were they watching that Rambo III movie over and over and over again? Red Dawn?

    What were our people thinking?

  84. anonynous says:
    @JMcG

    Yeah, well I was not so incredulous. I saw what was happening with my own eyes ~ 1979 with these dark, hairy mobs of 8th century Islamists over running the US Embassy in Tehran Iran, holding America hostage for a year while the J Ted Koppel displayed this EVERY F#*(*$# nigh for a whole year.

    I remember the arguments I had with my Lib high school students about the Iranian Islamic revolution and their mob riots over the Shah, the takeover of our US Embassy. These Liberals always went for anything and everything that regular White Conservative Americans feared or hated:

    Black Panthers
    Viet Cong Guerilas
    Che

    One Lib student of mine was particularly argumentative with me, defending the Iranian Islamic revolution like it was the French Revolution for Liberty, Equality and Brotherhood. This Liberal guy was a bi sexual gay theater major. I tried to use reason with this bisexual Liberal Artists that these 8th century islamists would throw him off of roofs, stone him to death, but my reason was useless.

    Same as trying to use Islamic realities to 1980s Reagan Conservatives, that Wall Street Journal July 4th Editorial:

    “Thou Shalt have Open Borders” (Let’s welcome the entire Islamic world population to Manhattan and Orange County CA.

    Enoch Powell and Jean Resail must have been right.

    We must be cursed, the old White Gods must be cursing us, driving us mad, insane to do this.

    In the case of UK and USA, this might be the White God’s payback karma for Dresden and Hamburg.

    Central Europeans and Eastern Europeans aren’t having any of this nonsense.

  85. @J.Ross

    “Is there a Muslim equivalent to a baseball team’s worth of dirty, under-supplied, underfed, sleep-deprived Spaniards routing the combined host of a continental empire in a couple of hours?”

    Does the spread of Islam from a few obscure Arabian tribes in 632 to the whole of Arabia, the Levant, Persia, North Africa and Spain in a hundred years (they were fighting near Tours in 732) count?

  86. anonynous says:
    @J.Ross

    Uhmmmmm.

    Have you checked out the current Catholic Pope – Rolling Stone Magazine cover boy, literally licking the boots of Black Muslim migrant invaders.

    How about the queer, feminist dominated Anglican Church? Southern Baptists renouncing the South.

    If you want to sing “Onward Christian Soldiers”, you’d better learn to sing it in Polish, Russian or Hungarian, maybe some places in Spanish.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  87. Lot says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “Up until WWII there was a sense among a lot of the white imperial powers that black Africans would dwindle away over time, the way American Indians did”

    Someone posted a passage written by Darwin saying this.

    On the other hand, 1700-1900 rapid black population growth in South Africa was a clue this was very wrong.

  88. syonredux says:
    @IHTG

    Remember how the famous 1924 Immigration Act didn’t actually restrict migration from the Americas.

    If memory serves, Stoddard was unhappy about that.

  89. @Lot

    Is that Mrs. Sadiq Khan with hizzoner the Mayor?

    (I hope she came with a large dowry.)

  90. anon[166] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I’ve got only one quibble in this otherwise very good post. Didn’t Ataturk rule as a secularist, and modernize Turkey by doing so?

    Yes. He switched Turkish to a Roman alphabet, put a dress code for men into effect, put the government in charge of the mosques and their sermons, generally “de-Islamizing” Turkey in the process. He created a special role for the Army as “guardians of the state”, such that a large enough group of generals could remove any Turkish leader if they needed to. This happened more than once, usually the generals in question then retire when they hand government back to the civvies.

    However, over the course of about three generations, 75 years or so, Islamism made a comeback. Turkey is sliding into the Muslim mean, and will continue to do so. Because of the nature of Islam itself.

  91. AaronB says:

    Hilaire Belloc’s introductory chapter on the Jews is pretty good, and on the whole fairly sympathetic and balanced.

    He points out that the Nazis declared war on the Jews, and the immorality of this. On Palestine, he says the Jews bought the land they lived on there fairly at very high prices, and developed its value immensely through industry and organization. However, he says that the issue is spiritual – Islam despises the Jew and cannot accept Jewish control over the Holy Places. He identifies this as the source of conflict. He seems to question British support for Jewish Palestine from a practical point of view – it does not serve British interests, it incurs the enmity of the Muslim world, and the British do not hold Damascus, which he thought was strategically necessary to hold Palestine. He says the British promised Palestine to the Jews in an attempt to gain their financial backing and loyalty.

    A few things that surprised me –

    Even back then, people were making the argument that a minority of Jews in a country enriches and benefits it.

    He says Poland, in contrast to Germany, was much nicer to its Jews and tried to meet them halfway.

    De Gobinueau, the French racial theorist who influenced the Nazis, thought the purest Aryans were found in the Spanish peasantry!

  92. @IHTG

    Remember how the famous 1924 Immigration Act didn’t actually restrict migration from the Americas.

    Nor did the 1965 Act allow for more of it. It only applied to the Old World.

  93. anon[166] • Disclaimer says:

    This passage reminds me why I have never been able to read much of Belloc’s writings: a man who is going to write in such a pompous manner needs to be careful about his facts, because a blowhard who can’t be bothered to open up an encyclopedia is just another version of a barstool philosopher. Friends have urged me to read his stuff, “He was really smart! And deep!” but all I see is a frustrated college prof who wound up teaching midhigh English lit.

    Overrated.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  94. Dan Hayes says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Makes sense since Jones is the quintessential Welsh name.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
  95. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Belloc probably got Suleiman the Magnificent (r. 1520-1566) mixed up with Mehmed IV (r. 1648-1687), who reigned over the Ottoman Empire during the close run Siege and Battle of Vienna in 1683. This was the one where Jan Sobieski’s winged cavalry charge famously broke the siege. The ensuing war lasted until 1699, so indeed “within a very few years of the opening of the eighteenth century”, and the Ottomans often had superior artillery to their Christian opponents.

    Suleiman the Magnificent was the previous time Islam nearly conquered the West.

    Seems to happen every coupla centuries or so.

    Such historiographic errors as Belloc’s were easier to commit in the era before Wikipedia.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  96. @AaronB

    “The early 20th century was the era of Spengler and the idea of decline was everywhere in the air.”

    Rather: The early 20th century was the era of the Great War and the reality of decline was strikingly evident everywhere and to everyone.

    Spengler and the rest merely spelled it out, and sounded a warning: more of the same, and Europe, and with it the white man, was finished.

    Would someone care to explain to me how they were wrong?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  97. anon[337] • Disclaimer says:

    The rise of Islam can happen only by allowing millions of Muslim immigrants to the West where they can consume their hosts’ wealth and eventually outbreed them. Muslims are simply too stupid to rise to dominance in any other way

  98. @anonynous

    Were they watching that Rambo III movie over and over and over again?

    Even though the politics were misguided, Rambo III is some of the best lunatic ’80s action:

    As always, Stallone >>>>>>>>>>> Schwarzenegger.

  99. @YetAnotherAnon

    Does the spread of Islam from a few obscure Arabian tribes in 632 to the whole of Arabia, the Levant, Persia, North Africa and Spain in a hundred years (they were fighting near Tours in 732) count?

    No.

    What Francisco Pizarro and his crew pulled off is unparalleled in the annals of human conflict.

    I don’t know how they got out of bed will balls that big.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Lot
  100. @anon

    However, over the course of about three generations, 75 years or so, Islamism made a comeback. Turkey is sliding into the Muslim mean, and will continue to do so. Because of the nature of Islam itself.

    Correct.

    It’s hilarious to watch other Muslim nations take Turkey as some kind of role model for a modern Islamic state with global influence and a powerful economy while failing to realize that Turkey achieved that role due to Ataturk’s secular reforms, in spite of traditional Islamic doctrine.

  101. @anon

    You’re half right.
    What we have here is an example of late Belloc when he wrote (or rather dictated) book after book, article after article, few of them referenced, and none of them substantially revised. He did it for one simple reason: he needed the money.
    His early books however, up to the late ’20s, say, are almost all of them worth the effort. The Servile State is a classic of political philosophy, while The Path to Rome is a gem all on its own. His political novels (illustrated brilliantly by Chesterton) are trifles, but highly amusing ones, not lacking in deft blows against parliamentary democracy as he had experienced it as a Liberal MP before the Great War.
    Give him another chance.

  102. J.Ross says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Not by a long shot, look closer into it. Muhammad built a utopian community, then built a constantly growing new model army. There may be a similar incident somewhere in there, but I’ve heard of that wife on her camel and yet not heard of something like this.

  103. @anon

    Yes, I was aware of the gist of that, #166. Thank you, though. I hope my joke didn’t fall flat with that typo in there.

  104. J.Ross says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Ataturk was an objectively admirable man, the kind of once in a lifetime monarch who justifies monarchy. A genuine war hero, he voluntarily removed his uniform and medals, so that his country could have a civilian ruler like modern Western nations — and then met at state dinners with fellow dictators bedecked in elaborate martinet costumes and buried in meaningless medals. But his modernization never really took root in the countryside (despite ironically colonialistic expeditions, where men would be chased down and fined for being seen in a brimless hat) and now unworthy successor Erdogan is ripping it all up.

  105. For that matter Mohammedanism is no more fatalist than Calvinism; the two heresies resemble each other exactly in their exaggerated insistence upon the immutability of Divine decrees.

    I am pretty sure this is a grotesque simplification. I do not know enough to delineate the details. But there is one that does. Perhaps he will explain these things. Once again, now is when we need The Last Real Calvinist. Where are you TLRC?

  106. It’s interesting that Islamic countries, while they improved considerably versus 1936, haven’t gotten much past technological mediocrity over the last 85 years.

    Even someone as prescient as Belloc could not foresee that the Islamic countries would not need to defeat Western Europe in battle: they would simply outbreed us and walk across our borders. When they arrive here, we lack the moral courage to send them back. One consequence is that the Turkish president can extract Danegeld from us simply by threatening to allow unarmed migrants to walk, sail, or swim into Europe!

  107. J.Ross says:
    @anonynous

    Christianity for all its faults objectively and materially produced far better societies than those of certain other traditions as a logical result of its stated goals over centuries. “Refugee”- warehousing megachurches and a Marxist scumbag in a wedding dress don’t lay a finger on that any more than did the regularity of hypocrisy which Christianity at its best created. The Muslim answer to hypocrisy follows the wisdom of Rashi regarding chilly breezes, that is, go ahead and do something, taking care that you not create problems: thus, relieve a sexual emergency with a low-class Christian and not the daughter of a respected judge (or: homosexuals do not produce unwanted children). European observers of the Muslim world were centrally fixated on Muslim indulgence, often praising its alleged rationality and mimicking its cuisine, and this is something EW Said for example is rejecting as just pure inaccurate racism in his Orientalism.

  108. syonredux says:

    I’d vote for a Coulter-Malkin ticket….

    Simple plan to Keep America Great:
    1) Stop exporting American soldiers to countries that hate our guts
    2) Stop importing people from countries that hate our guts

  109. Alden says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    I believe you’re right. We learned a lot of lies in history class and the so called books of history.

    Here’s my view of the glories of Islam

    The Justinian Plague wiped out the population of Europe, parts of Central Asia and the southern shores of the Mediterranean enough to enable the Muslim Arabs to invade north and east.

    The Arabs conquered the heart of civilization, Spain, the jewel in the crown of the Roman Empire. Anatolia Greek colonies Egypt Armenia Persia S. Russia Crimea, Syria Persia, etc.

    There were still millions of intelligent competent reasonably honest Christians in those countries. They carried on medicine trade the monasteries libraries and everything we were taught was the glories of Islamic civilization. But it wasn’t. It was just an Islamic overclass imposed on the ancient civilizations.

    But after a few hundred years more people were allowed to convert to Islam. The Muslim schools just taught memorize the Koran. The Christian schools taught the standard variety of subjects.
    Trade and business became who could cheat whom. Women were locked up at home and uneducated. Instead of men working all day, they had to do the shopping and guard the morals of the women.

    Physical work was scorned and more and more men became useless.

    In Christian countries the monasteries and convents were centers of technological engineering and industrial R&D, partly because of the rule that they had to support themselves and do physical work.

    The Muslim seminarians and teachers lived off generous donations and did only religious learning.

    So, by 11, 1200 AD Muslim inertia laziness about physical work dishonesty corruption etc overcame the great civilizations the Muslims conquered.

    Most of the history taught in America until about 1970 was a from triumphal reformation English Protestant or even worse, enlightenment point of view. That is, the European Roman world ended 400AD and all we did was starve in the mud till around 1500 with the renaissance reformation and enlightenment.

    Since 1970 it’s been nothing but Howard Zimm and the rest of the Ellis Islanders and Jewish communists writing the hate YT , Europe and America histories.

  110. Alden says:
    @Jim from Boston

    Yeah right, the cannons the Turks used for the final conquest of Constantinople were bought from a Hungarian cannon factory. They were made of bronze.

    • Replies: @Jim from Boston
    , @KenH
  111. Yeah, I’ve heard Belloc was a very interesting mind. Steve’s review confirms that . But I am especially curious about Belloc’s 1922 “The Jews” where I understand he argued that Jews are a “political organism” which, like any independent organism, seeks after its own interests. I wonder if Steve will review that book anytime soon.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  112. @syonredux

    It has been very encouraging to see Tucker Carlson, Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin get red-pilled on foreign policy.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  113. AaronB says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    It was sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, don’t you think? You are only in decline if you allow yourself to be – in other words, if you feel depressed and unmotivated and lose faith in yourself and your values.

    I suggest that your level of self confidence affects your risk assessment – and the fact that they started being so afraid of Muslims and Asians suggests to me a drastic decline in self-confidence. A self confident person riding high laughs risks to scorn. A century ago, that was the Western attitude.

    Your self respect and belief in your values also affects how you respond to risks even if you are unsure you can cope with them – people with high self respect are proudly defiant. I don’t see that attitude here.

    Maybe lose of faith in ones values are outside your control and are caused by complicated factors – but its worth noting that the attitude these writers are expressing is already very different from the sublime confidence and defiance an earlier generations of Westerners had. The rot had already set in.

    So I find it kind of distasteful – or at least I find nothing to admire there.

  114. Peterike says:
    @Lot

    “Just read it. Nothing special, however anything written by intelligent men as WWII was getting started is interesting and provides some insight into what people were thinking then.”

    Really? Maybe you skipped the part about Jews being largely responsible for the Communist insurgency in Spain and the wholesale slaughter of countless thousands of Priests and other Catholic figures? Ho hum. Nothing special.

    The intro is also pristinely clear prose. A pleasure to read and nearly impossible to put down once started.

    • Replies: @Lot
  115. @Lot

    In The Camp of the Saints, the masses of millions coming to Europe’s shores (the French Riviera, to begin with) were .Indians, Lot, not Africans. Who knows what Mr. Raspail had in mind though? It was a gripping and prescient book nonetheless.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @black sea
  116. @Almost Missouri

    Nailed it.

    Similar turn away from knowledge in late Ming following the spectacular discoveries of the Treasure Fleet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_voyages

  117. @John Gruskos

    Lots of red pills going around:

    • Replies: @pirelli
    , @gregor
  118. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Revilo Pendleton Oliver wrote a superb assessment of this in the JFK/MM era, but sadly, it is unobtanium, because this was written for the John Birch Society and they refuse to allow any of his works written for them to be reprinted.

    An introduction to the contemporary history of Latin America.

    Revilo P Oliver
    1961
    English Book Book 67 pages
    Belmont, Mass., American Opinion,

    Libraries worldwide that own item: 8

    Find Items About: Oliver, Revilo P. (max: 6)
    Title: An introduction to the contemporary history of Latin America.
    Author(s): Oliver, Revilo P. 1910- (Revilo Pendleton),
    Publication: Belmont, Mass., American Opinion,
    Year: 1961
    Description: 67 pages
    Language: English
    SUBJECT(S)
    Genre/Form: History.
    Geographic: Latin America — History.
    Latin America.
    Note(s): Vol. 4, no. 5 of American Opinion.
    Class Descriptors: LC: F1414
    Other Titles: American Opinion.; v. 4, no. 5.
    Document Type: Book
    Entry: 19820316
    Update: 20150407
    Accession No: OCLC: 8246623
    Database: WorldCat

    If you can find it it is most instructive, and very witty and insightful.

    • Replies: @Romanian
  119. @Alden

    Oh em gee … if what you’re saying is true, I am devastated. Being of Austrian descent, I’ve always thought fondly of Hungarians.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  120. @IHTG

    Remember how the famous 1924 Immigration Act didn’t actually restrict migration from the Americas.

    It sure did. That act specified immigration levels of 2% yearly for each ethnicity (nationality?) based on their current proportion of the US population based on the year 1890.

    If there were 50,000 Guatemalans, to give a random example, in our country, then only 1,000 could enter per year. There was to be a total of no more than 165,000 people yearly from outside the Western Hemisphere, so I understand your “Americas” comment. 2% of your group was a reasonably low limit, compared to today. People of English, German, and Irish origins were greatly favored, as the influx from the great immigration from eastern and southern Europe would have only the 1st 1/4 or so (based on years, not numbers, say 10 years of the 40 year 1880-1920 period) of that influx represented.

    It was damn near a moratorium, and the peoples from that great influx were assimilated pretty well, but not completely, right about the time of that dastardly 1965 act. No matter the turbulence of the 1960s, back then, Americans were pretty much Americans. Note in a graph embedded in the Peak Stupidity post “Foreigners in America”, the 1960s and 1970s were the only 2 decades of the 20th century to have less than 10 million foreign-born people living here. That was under 5% of the population. Right now, it’s shooting well past 45 million (not sure how in hell they estimate illegal aliens), and over 15% of the population. That’s no damn way to run a country!

  121. @Rob

    Just in reference to the Steve Sailer comment section, Rob, the comments ARE in chronological order, but order of being submitted, as they don’t come out of the “moderation process” (i.e., Steve waking up) at the same time. Comments that your browser had not displayed the last time will appear with that light blue background, even if they were written 5 hours back.

    I just tried, and I can use Bold on this tablet, but I never tried before, as highlighting text is such a pain in the ass on these devices. Do I need better circulation in my fingers or what?

    If you want to use HTML tags while writing on a touchscreen device, I recommend just typing the tags in. It’s pretty easy, but I obviously can’t demonstrate it here, or I’ll just bold, or italicize, or blockquote stuff. (Yes, geeks, I know about the escape features – OK, I don’t feel like it.)

    • Replies: @Lurker
    , @anonymous
  122. res says:
    @Sean

    Pakistan is concerned with India, which has its own nukes for a standoff, plus a bigger army than Pakistan has population.

    What?

    Pakistan population: 197 million
    Indian army: 1.2 million active duty, 0.99 million reservists from
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/india-vs-pakistan-who-wins-war-and-how-many-millions-could-die-44827

    For further reference.
    India population: 1.34 billion
    Pakistani army: 650,000 active duty, 500,000 reserves from same source as above.

    Did I misunderstand or were you really off by two orders of magnitude?

    • Replies: @Pheasant
  123. Whitehall says:

    May I suggest that you look at the book “Armies of Sand” by Kenneth Pollack.

    It takes detailed looks a Arab military performance since WWII and finds various root causes of their uniform poor performance.

  124. @Almost Missouri

    “Such historiographic errors as Belloc’s were easier to commit in the era before Wikipedia.”

    Not so. That’s called basic competence for an historian to recognize the difference between famous leaders/generals. It’s like confusing General US Grant with Dwight Eisenhower. There’s a big difference between Grant and Ike, least of which is that both men lived in different centuries.

    By the late nineteenth/early twentieth centuries, keeping track of various great men of history had more than advanced to the point that established credible historians knew the difference between them, and which centuries they lived in. In other words, by ca. 1900, most historians had a basic understanding that Alexander the Great and Hannibal weren’t the same person, and that they lived in different centuries. For an established reputable scholar, this type of amateurish mistake isn’t tolerable.

    Also, keep in mind, that Suleiman reigned during what was still considered to be Islam’s glory centuries, albeit it was slowly coming to an end. Certainly by the sixteenth century Western Europe had caught up in basic technology, in the arts, sciences, and its exploration of Asia and the New World was proving to be another advancement. But Suleiman was considered a very important figure in his time as a true leader of Islamic empire and prestige. So important that Francis I of France attempted to join him in attacking Charles V, of Holy Roman Empire.

    All it appeared to take in late seventeenth century was John of Poland to vanquish the Turks. Louis XIV of France, then considered to be the strongest European military power, officially neutral in the conflict, largely sat out the war vs the Turks, preferring to concentrate on gaining new territory for France on their eastern border. Had he joined forces vs Islam, the Turks would’ve been defeated a lot sooner.

    So the difference in names is crucial: In the sixteenth century, the Turks were still a military force to be reckoned with. But by the end of the seventeenth century, the writing was on the wall, the Turks days were over, and Islam’s glory days were coming quickly to a close.

  125. Hibernian says:
    @George

    Hence the absence of religious wars in England.

    I think you mean in the 16th Century. That ccertainly wasn’t true in the 17th.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  126. @Reg Cæsar

    The 1965 immigration act reduced legal immigration on Mexico and Latin America.

    Prior the the 1965 Act the United States had no quotas on Latin American immigration , the act imposed a Quota of 50,000 per year , which reduced Legal immigration from Latin America by 80%

  127. @Hibernian

    When he was Chancellor, Sir Thomas More had English Protestants burned at the stake for heresy, as did Queen Mary. May not have been actual wars, but dissenters were definitely punished in the sixteenth century.

  128. @George

    Question: Where did the Church get all the lands from? The lands weren’t theirs originally. How’d all this land come into their possession? At one time, estimates range from 25-33% of all total land in Western Europe was directly possessed by the Catholic Church during the Middle Ages into the Renaissance era. Protestantism was never anywhere near owning that amount of land in Western Europe.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @Alden
    , @George
  129. @Achmed E. Newman

    In The Camp of the Saints, the masses of millions coming to Europe’s shores (the French Riviera, to begin with) were .Indians, Lot, not Africans. Who knows what Mr. Raspail had in mind though?

    Prudence. There were already plenty of Arabs and Africans in France when it came out. But very few Indians to complain.

    Borrow your bad guys from someone else’s empire!

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  130. pirelli says:
    @Desiderius

    Some pretty good lines in there, particularly the Ronan Farrow one. What crawled up Tom Hanks’s ass??

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Anonymous
  131. Pheasant says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Traitionally Arab/moslem armies have used outsiders to do these things for them with many successes.

    Use of mercenaries has a long history in Islam.

    Could not this be done in the future?

  132. Lurker says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    If you then edit a comment you have to type the tags anyway.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  133. Hhsiii says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Yeah in Zulu when the sergeant calls out the roll at the end half the names are Jones.

    • Thanks: Dan Hayes
  134. Pheasant says:
    @res

    Is he thinking of reserves/ number of adult males available for conscription perhaps?

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @res
  135. @pirelli

    Been there since around the time he filmed Philadelphia.

  136. Pheasant says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Land was bequeathed to them by pious nobles.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  137. @Pheasant

    Because Church and State in those days tended to be intertwined, so it was a foregone conclusion. It’s not Protestants who have UN representation, nor are Protestants recognized as having their own state government on the world stage.

  138. @Lurker

    True, as that window does’t have those features.

  139. Neoconned says:

    Whiskey, of all ppl has made some very interesting observations about this issue. Though he made them in passing & I dunno if he learned these from other writers or are his own observations but I find them fascinating:

    1) the various Islamic empires of the Middle Ages seem to have gone into rapid decline just as the so called “white slave trade” also collapsed.

    His thesis being these Muslim empires were dependent on Christian and Jewish functionaries to run the social, economic and government machinery of the empires….and this required Dr facto slavery. Much like how the deep South of the USA went from King Cotton to 3rd world status in just 100 years as slavery went away.

    With out a steady supply of dumb, capable competent white slaves or coerced types Islamic cultures resumed to their natural 3rd rate state of being in the world.

    2) The recent massive importation of Islam and Muslim people’s into Europe is a function of the political strength of the womens rights movement.

    I use to laugh at this as a Carlin type non pc joke but I’ve cynically become converted. They are importing Muslims because of the innate female genetic tendency to “harem to the big man with power” and to a lesser extent the female mass media machine has created a Cultural Revolution level of anxiety among white women about body image and beauty.

    And women being the natural gossips & backstabbers they are prefer the safe embrace of the hijab “because no fat shaming….”

    If I was a woman I dunno if I could live w myself like that…

    Until white men do Muslim like things like revoke female suffrage and nude protests, social media, urban anonymity etc then this will continue. And think about it….what a genetic waste….our women are arguably our greatest resource but we allow them to throw themselves into the gutter like trash.

    Muslims will continue to come into Europe until they take over. Then the door will slam shut as they consolidate power and wealth as they don’t want more immigration competition to their harems & ghetto fiefdoms.

    3) Last but not least as he mentioned in passing & others have as well…if the various banlieus and other assorted Muslim ghettos were to declare political independence and a string of mini caliphates or some such. The various European police and military authorities would be largely impotent to stop them.

    Basically they could declare mini states within France, Sweden etc and nothing could be done by the domestic authorities due to lack of manpower.

    Well. Without the aid of foreign Christian troops from either Putin’s Russia or the USA but yea…

    Our own women ate doing this to us. Recall the famous picture contrasting Putin’s military minister and the various defense ministers in Europe….all women to Putin’s ugly, craggy old ex Soviet functionary….says a lot about our leadership and the femme dictatorship ruling over us.

  140. gregor says:
    @Desiderius

    -Says they are terrified of Ronan Farrow. Calls them “perverts.”

    -Makes an Epstein-didn’t-kill-himself joke. Follows up with “I know he’s your friend but I don’t care.”

    -Says most movies are bad and lazy. Just remakes, reboots, sequels. Says their job isn’t acting anymore, it’s going to the gym and taking steroids to fit into tight costumes.

    -Makes a joke about DiCaprio liking his women young and follows up with a Prince Andrew joke.

    -Makes anti-corporate comments about Apple, et al. Calls them out for hypocrisy. Tells prospective winners to spare us the grandiose political statements because they have no business lecturing anybody about anything.

    It came on right after football so I actually caught it live. First time I’ve ever seen Golden Globes. I was only half listening at first but I perked up pretty quickly. I can honestly say I was surprised by some of the topics, especially since I had no expectations going in.

    On the other hand, we must realize this is ultimately network-sanctioned. The networks protected Epstein and Weinstein for years and telling a few jokes about it isn’t good enough. I can’t tell if they are trying to inoculate the public with jokes or if it’s just a flex (as in they are acknowledging what they are, but no one can do anything about it.) Or maybe it’s just that “edgy” material gets more views, clicks, etc.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @Mr. Anon
  141. Sean says:
    @Neoconned

    Carlton Coon said the Islamic empire’s power was unusually dependant on ‘special peoples’ (mainly Jews) and slaves. The upper classes of the Ottoman empire became very untypical of the mass of the population through mating with white female slaves. I don’t know about the modern conclusions you draw through.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    , @syonredux
  142. @gregor

    From a Hollywood screenwriter:

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  143. @jim jones

    Typical Jewish cultural Marxist.

  144. black sea says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Raspail has subsequently acknoweledged that he used Indians rather than North Africans because the latter choice, though more obvious, would also have been too disruptive, even in the 70’s. He was willing to push the envelope of propriety only so far.

  145. Clement says:

    Acts 16:31, 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, 1 Peter 1:17-21, Revelation 22:18-19

  146. @Istevefan

    I love how Americans apparently are unaware that we started the wars over there that propelled so many of them to start moving.

    • Replies: @Istevefan
  147. The core countries of Islam are awfully close to heat zones, which get even hotter in the next decades.

    The core countries of Islam are awfully close to Sahel zone countries, which have instable structures and exploding populations.

    The core countries of Islam are losing the economical edge compared alot of SSA countries, which are now emulating the proven concept of industrial transformation conducted by the Confucian societies.

    The Confucian societies have no qualms about the Muslims. What can the Muslim world do about the camps in Xinjiang? Nothing, impotence…

    No Islam, is the civiliaztion that is under pressure.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  148. bomag says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    …a rabble of ISIS terrorists

    Maybe those are our future rulers?

    We’re already bowing to Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib.

  149. @joeyjoejoe

    I can’t figure out why young men still sign up for it. Actually I can: they’re young men. It would be nice if we could harness this energy in a different direction instead of dissipating it with spectator sports and pointless overseas military campaigns.

  150. @Pheasant

    Look at the scads of money Saudi just spent and continues to spend on mercs in Yemen. How successful was that effort?

    Developing indigenous engineering capability is something different still. Nearly all engineering roles in the defense industry require US citizenship. A significant portion of those require some kind of security clearance. Export of knowledge and product is extremely controlled and regulated so it is difficult to transfer.

    In addition, it is far more profitable over the long run for the defense industry to keep their clients dependent. They can fund future programs on the customer’s dime by stringing them along with endless training, support, and overpriced parts.

  151. @Reg Cæsar

    Pierre Boulle’s Planet of the Apes came out in 1963, ten years before Camp of the Saints. I wonder if it was deliberately metaphorical as well.

    It was immensely popular at the time with the movies and animation spin-offs (And lunchboxes!). If that was Boulle’s intent it was an all-time great troll.

    • Replies: @Culpepper
  152. Brutusale says:
    @Neoconned

    144 comments concerning Islam and warfare and not one mention of the J word.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  153. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:

    Notice: this post and all of the eloquent, condescending historical insights from the more respectable of the faithful commenters seems to be a safe space, after the embarrassment headlined “Qasem Soleimani Is Dead.”

    You have to be really High-Q to be able to look down on the people of the Middle East while tiptoeing around Uncle Sam’s latest war crime. Do Jack D, Ozymandias, and their ilk understand that they’re supposed to sit this one out?

  154. Istevefan says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Their mass movement into Europe began before the 21st century ME wars.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Anon
  155. Mr. Anon says:
    @gregor

    On the other hand, we must realize this is ultimately network-sanctioned. The networks protected Epstein and Weinstein for years and telling a few jokes about it isn’t good enough. I can’t tell if they are trying to inoculate the public with jokes or if it’s just a flex (as in they are acknowledging what they are, but no one can do anything about it.) Or maybe it’s just that “edgy” material gets more views, clicks, etc.

    I would suspect the inoculation angle. Same goes for the 60 minutes expose on Epstein’s death. Now CBS can say they said something about it. I would expect them to say nothing more.

    Also, apparently Gervais implicitly lambasted Hollywood for racism and sexism – which is institutionally approved social commentary. It would have been more daring to say that Hollywood is against white men.

    • Replies: @gregor
  156. Mr. Anon says:
    @Neoconned

    Much like how the deep South of the USA went from King Cotton to 3rd world status in just 100 years as slavery went away.

    Mississippi and Alabama in 1965 were hardly “third world”

    • Replies: @Neoconned
  157. @Dave Pinsen

    I guess Danny Chun is trying to spin this to come to the rescue of people he hopes will employ him.

    The reactions of the actual audience were rekt, as the kids say.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @gregor
  158. @Brutusale

    Well, Janissaries couldn’t marry, so no descendants today. Also they weren’t Muslim.

    Also, the presently returning Islam has no ambition to emulate Janissarial celibacy. Quite the opposite, actually.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    , @HA
  159. OT: Anti-semitic hate hoax in Detroit.

    https://eu.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2020/01/02/jewish-west-bloomfield-stabbing/2794511001/

    Includes appropriate condemnation from the Regional Director of Anti Defamation League Michigan; but no report at https://www.adl.org.

  160. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Istevefan

    So “we” have only been stirring things up in the 21st century?

    Notice: HBDittoheads clinging to the Uncle Sam myth pre-2003.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @istevefan
  161. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t buy it — too many of my heterodox comments have been whimmed for hours while the “Hey, Steve” fanboy stuff piles up. When those of mine finally turn blue, they’re largely out of sight, way back upthread. It’s temporal shadow banning. (And don’t bother with the “get a handle” retort — my email address could be cleared for immediate posting just like those of the favored.)

    Mr. Sailer is well worth reading, but he has some willfully blind spots. When disagreeing, just accept the practical reality that he may be the only person who sees your submission.

  162. @Hhsiii

    The Ottoman couldn’t continue to keep them as slaves if they did, since they’re not allowed to enslave other Muslims.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  163. @Pheasant

    It’s already being done in the present. You may recall that Saudi Arabia and Kuwait recently employed a mercenary army of Americans and British to eject the Iraqi army from their lands and then to crush the commander in Iraq.

  164. @Pheasant

    We may soon have many millions of half-African half-French Muslims in “France”, as well as many millions of half-Turk half-German or half-Arab half-German Muslims in “Germany.”

    Sounds like a substantial pool of potential talent for Islam, unfortunately.

  165. res says:
    @Pheasant

    Is he thinking of reserves/ number of adult males available for conscription perhaps?

    Probably, but that’s not what he said, and even giving him the benefit of the doubt there the numbers still don’t work. Let’s repeat the figures I gave above:

    Pakistan population: 197 million
    Indian army: 1.2 million active duty, 0.99 million reservists

    Here is a population pyramid for Pakistan. First note that they give the population as 216.6 million so let’s call it an even 200 million for easier calculation.
    https://www.populationpyramid.net/pakistan/2019/

    Typically military age male means something like 18-49. Looking at the population pyramid we see that 4.9% of the population is males 20-24. This gives just under 10 million or almost 5x the Indian army.

    So just one 5 year cohort of males is almost 5x the size of the Indian army.

    P.S. Sean, rather than just agreeing with Pheasant’s comment how about describing your reasoning? Your comment seemed like a good one overall, but when you start off with a seemingly ridiculous statement like that it undermines your credibility.

    P.P.S. For some additional perspective, here is a US population pyramid: https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2019/
    3.5% of our 329 million population is males 20-24. At 11.5 million that is about 12% more than Pakistan. Would you make the same statement about the US versus India?
    This page gives list of countries and includes the military size both total and per capita:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel
    If you want an idea of what is possible, take a look at North Korea where 30% (!) of their population is active or reserve military (South Korea is 13% and Cuba is 10%).

    • Thanks: Pheasant
  166. @Another German Reader

    Not so sure about that. “Germany” and “France” and “Italy” and “England” may become new core countries of Islam.

  167. @Neoconned

    “I use to laugh at this as a Carlin type non pc joke but I’ve cynically become converted.”

    Agree. In fact, I agree with a lot of what you post.

    “if the various banlieus and other assorted Muslim ghettos were to declare political independence and a string of mini caliphates or some such. The various European police and military authorities would be largely impotent to stop them.”

    I wonder about this though. Not that I disagree that they wouldn’t like to, but

    1) they effectively already have. The are are plenty of no-go zones now for European civil authorities, it’s just that the Euro authorities don’t admit it.

    2) If they (banlieus and other assorted Muslim ghettos) did become truly independent, it would be a disaster for them because they are utterly nonproductive and parasitical. They may #RESIST the Euro police authorities, but they are busily scarfing up all the Euro welfare cornucopia they can get. They don’t want to shut that off. And the Euro authorities are too dumb to shut it off for them.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  168. anaon says:
    @Neoconned

    1) the various Islamic empires of the Middle Ages seem to have gone into rapid decline just as the so called “white slave trade” also collapsed.

    Muslim slaving was never “so-called”. The Turks took young Christian men from their Balkan empire as slaves and even Jannissary soldiers for centuries. Some of the besiegers of Vienna in 1529 were surely Christian men enslaved into Suiliman’s army who had converted to Islam.

    Coursairs from North Africa raided the European coastline for close to 1,000 years, sometimes taking entire villages full of people back to slave markets. The coasts of Italy, southern France and Spain have villages that were clearly built for defense, not convenience. 18th and 19th century European operas riffed off of this, with “Abduction from the Seraglio” and “Italian Girl in Algiers” as entertainment, but there was a real problem.

    The US Navy was patrolling in the Med in the 1860’s on “anti-slavery” patrol, and it had nothing to do with black Africans.

    The white slaves taken from Europe, including Ireland and even Iceland, were a source of cheap labor for Islam from Morocco to Arabia. In addition to that, the importation of black African slaves by land was a thing for centuries, too, only to be reduced in the 19th century by white Europeans as well.

    The Muslim empires across North Africa and the Middle East also sat right on the trade routes to Europe from India and China, in a huge “middle-man” operation. Tea? spices? Silk? All went through Muslim spheres of control, with a substantial markup.

    The Muslim world in North Africa and the Middle East was a middle-man operation that thrived on slave labor. Europeans such as the Portuguese navigator da Gama found a way around the middle men to India, then to the spice islands of modern Indonesia, then to China and Japan. Sailing around the southern tip of Africa was hazardous in the 1500’s but they cut out the Muslim middlemen and kept the profits in European hands.

    Islams decline was economic, and due to improved European ships who could sail to China, or sink Barbary pirate corsairs. With their middle-man monopoly on Asian trade gone, with their source of white European slaves cut off, and then with their source of black African slaves throttled, the Muslims of North Africa should have turned to something other than raiding, slaving, etc. but they did not.

  169. @Andrew M

    Lol.

    Tribalism DNE nationalism.

    Aberration my ass.

  170. Dutch Boy says:

    Of course the Islamic threat is no longer military but demographic, aided by the demoralization of Christendom and the treason of its elites.

  171. @Almost Missouri

    So you’re assuming no Janissaries got it on with the local wimmenfolk? Don’t have to be Whiskey to question that one. At minimum there were no shortage of spoils available to them after battle, including the not-so-local females.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  172. @jim jones

    So does this mean that a bear doesn’t shit in the woods?

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Lagertha
  173. anon[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hhsiii

    Yes, and at some point, they were taken, or better to say given by their Muslim families, those ones were allowed to keep ties with their families tho.

  174. @Bardon Kaldian

    pre-modern

    Not so much “pre-modern” as “anti-modern”. Or perhaps not even that. The clash of Islam against the West is not only symptomatic of the crisis of modernism, but also a struggle on how to define it and who gets to do that.

    Since at least the Battle of Trafalgar, the vanguard of global history—and as a result, the trajectory of the “modern”—has largely been shaped by Anglo-Americans. Germany, Japan, and the Soviet Union all in their respective ways challenged them with alternative definitions of modernism that sought to supplant it, or at least present as viable alternatives to Anglo-American capitalism and liberal democracy. All three were vanquished; and suffered the discrediting and voiding of their respective competing modernisms.

    This latest challenge from the Islamic Middle East may prove more enduring. For one thing, despite the headline-grabbing horror of ISIS and Al Qaeda, it is largely a defensive posture. Unlike the caliphates of old, what modern reactionary Islam seeks is refuge from the Anglo-American modernist chaos engulfing the West. The fact that Muslims are not united is certainly their weakest point, but also their strongest. Whereas prior alternative modernisms were dependent upon the structure of a nation-state, reactionary Islamic modernism is an ever-regenerating hydra: If it is defeated in one area, it can be sure to resurge anew elsewhere. It does not require a well-organized society and government to thrive, nor does it even require “victory”. Its abilities to simply exist and project fear in its opponents are enough to sustain it.

  175. @Desiderius

    In Muslim lands, the local wimmenfolk were in purdah. In non-Muslim lands (i.e., where Janissaries battled and had spoils), they weren’t Muslim. And in any case, the Janissaries themselves weren’t Muslim, so I’m not saying the Janissaries weren’t interesting or important, just that they aren’t obviously part of a thread on “the return of Islam”.

    OTOH, if you—or anyone else—wants to construct an analogy where “The Return of [Ottoman] Islam” features a neo-Janissary corps of semi-celibate Christian soldiers and civil servants, I’m all ears. Indeed, if you consider the semi-celibate Western military and engineering corps currently stationed throughout the Middle East to prop up various plush neo-Sultans, the metaphor seems pretty easy.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
  176. @Neoconned

    That was a pretty good comment until this bit:

    Much like how the deep South of the USA went from King Cotton to 3rd world status in just 100 years as slavery went away.

    That’s a load of crap. Of course, the South was not near as industrialized as the North due to exactly your point here. After the War, the Reconstruction did a number on the place for more than another decade.

    The South though always more rural, recovered quite nicely, and lots of manufacturing moved down from the 1970’s right on through it all going out to China by 2000 or so. What’s made the cities pretty bad now is the influx of northern and western (CA) blacks coming back home.

    From reading your comments, Neoconned, I am pretty sure you live(d) in the South, but I know a whole lot about the place too. Anyway, this is just the one part of your comment that pissed me off. The rest is food for thought.

    Until white men do Muslim like things like revoke female suffrage and nude protests, social media, urban anonymity etc then this will continue. And think about it….what a genetic waste….our women are arguably our greatest resource but we allow them to throw themselves into the gutter like trash.

    Great stuff!

  177. @Neoconned

    Until white men do Muslim like things like revoke female suffrage

    Every Mohammedan country with male suffrage has female suffrage. Kuwait fell as the price of our saving their sultanate.

    You’re assuming women are more destructive voters than men. This is not always the case. Women went for Harding and Coolidge more than their husbands did, and we got immigration relief from that.

    Women tend to be more conservative, as in resistant to change, and what they vote to conserve now is the welfare state– which men built. The welfare state, in turn, invites the destitute into the land, for the same reason the spider invites the fly into its web. It’s the source of sustenance.

    Women’s suffrage itself was installed by men, who listened to the wrong women. A minority.

    The Mormons saw early on how useful suffrage is for polygamists, and were the first church to support it wholeheartedly. If you disenfranchise poor and/or unmarried men, women’s vote is a boon to the upper classes. The Mohammedans haven’t figured that out yet.

    Or they’re afraid to disenfranchise their poor men.

  178. @Neoconned

    His thesis being these Muslim empires were dependent on Christian and Jewish functionaries to run the social, economic and government machinery of the empires….and this required Dr facto slavery. Much like how the deep South of the USA went from King Cotton to 3rd world status in just 100 years as slavery went away.

    This analogy is interesting because in one case the decreased supply of enslaved, intelligent people who know how to get things done, and did so on pain of death, torture of loved ones, etc. led to a decline; in the other case the forced liberation and empowerment (by victorious invaders) of a enslaved, stupid people who do not know how to get things done and lack baseline levels of aversion to death, the torture of loved ones, etc. led to a decline. Although, of course, comparing the post bellum southeastern U.S.A. to a third-world shithole suggests a distinct lack of any true in knowledge of such shitholes.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
  179. @Almost Missouri

    You forgot diplomatic/foreign/covert. Both Strzok and Page have close Iranian ties, and the Bidenblower is a hardcore Orientalist.

  180. Lagertha says:

    USA must simply withdraw from the entire Middle East/South Asia, forever, for good – also, no more tax payer’s money sent to these corrupt and evil countries. It is the only logical solution.

    Let Shia & Sunni fight to the death, once and for all (we don’t need their oil anymore)…since they are incapable of foregoing a male-dominated, cruel and pathetic culture of revenge, and the awful female subjugation. They are nevah gonna change, and we all know it. And, they are entirely dependent on Western technology, medicine, and aid to even exist.

    Israel has the ability to defend itself; we all know that. Israel needs to grow up and deal with their stuff.

    And, I want no more American soldiers in useless, stupid wars with Muslim countries which have dragged on for the USA, for at least, 40+ years. I too, along with another commenter, felt that the Iranian Revolution was an ominent development that would bring dreaded consequences in the future. We have reached that point.

    To insure stability in USA, drone technology and facial recognition tech will be fast-tracked. And, I would have the entire populations of “combative” Muslim countries quarantined, or, basically, unable to travel to the USA without extreme surveillance following their every move. This means students, too. We don’t need students from foreign countries to begin with.

    Killing of Soleimani was inevitable, and, once these Boomer killers/dictators/generals/imams are gone, naturally or not, young people in the Middle East and Muslim countries have a chance to chart their own course, have dominion over their lives, decisions, and future, without state or adult meddling and oppression.

    Boomers and Gen X’s even, need to all be overthrown. In the age of the internet, subjugation of Millennials, and particularly, Gen Z isn’t going to work.

    There is no future for young people to work in any of those failed states. Boredom and frustration of young people is what will ultimately destroy these nasty, outdated, boring, rigid and unhappy countries. Having millions of unhappy and frustrated young people within the borders of these failed countries, will ultimately bring down the regimes of them. And, young people know how to develop new economies; they also, want to cooperate with fellow young people.

    Hong Kong has shown the world that young people will prevail. It’s time. There will be blood, but there’s no going back in time.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @Mr. Rational
  181. Alden says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Partly donations from warlords. Partly the inheritances of the monks and nuns. The Grand Duke of New York State would leave his daughter one of the counties. She’d become a nun and set up a convent with farms, Wood lots windmills and water mills some toll bridges a river harbor and weekly markets.

    In the years after the fall of Rome church property, not just the physical church was sacred sanctuary territory. Any violence and crime was a major sin. So the bandits and warlords stayed away. Business flourished in the towns owned by the church because merchants trades etc settled in church lands and paid rent.

    St Antoine district of Paris is an excellent example.

    And don’t forget the Justinian Plague 500-700AD de populated much of Europe. The monks being men went out into the wilderness. For example when the Vikings arrived in Iceland 900AD ? they found a big settlement of Irish monks. Killed the old enslaved the young.

    Much of the Netherlands was reclaimed from the North Sea. It was monks who began that work way back 650AD or so. So that land belonged to them.

    500-900AD the church was much like the American pioneers moving west. But with no opposition from the locals because;

    first in many places there were no locals,

    second the land was donated or totally empty,

    third the bridges water and wind mills safe markets hospitals orphanages schools hospitals agricultural technological R&D were considered beneficial by the locals

    fourth lots of jobs housing amenities like well maintained bridges and roads water mills and safety from bandits and warlords because all church property and lands were protected by God and the tenants were protected by the church.

    That’s how it happened.

  182. Jack D says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    I think race or ethnicity is more important than religion and further from the Equator is better than closer. Accordingly Iranian Muslims are going to have more going for them than say Somalis or Sudanese Muslims. Islam is a big global religion (with many sects) so generalizations that apply to all Muslims are as worthless as those that apply to all Christians.

  183. Lagertha says:
    @Desiderius

    hahaaa. I think he doesn’t realize that many of us hate this Pope and consider him evil, corrupt and devious. I know hate is a strong word, but whateves. And, the Pope using the tiresome just like Hitler, is so hilarious!

    His full-bore open-borders policy/ is really a backhanded compliment to Hitler since he, and he perhaps successfully, rather than Hitler, will finally destroy the people of Europe, or at least all the borders and centuries-old cultures. I think he is genuinely turned-on by this feat.

    His love for hunky Muslims should have been a stage role in Spring Time for Hitler.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvM_JpqViBA

  184. Jack D says:
    @Istevefan

    I think you are overstating the case. Muslims move to the West to get AWAY from Muslim rule, not to bring it with them. This is more a case of unintended consequences – they may end up as the inheritors of Europe (and Latinos as the inheritors of North America) sort of by accident, like when some old rich guy who has no kids ends up leaving everything to his housekeeper. Maybe there are some golddigger housekeepers who take the job with this plan in mind, but usually it just evolves that way. I guess the end result is the same but I really don’t see a grand plan, just a bunch of individual decisions. Of course after a while some power hungry immigrants say, “Hey, we are the majority now, we can be in charge” but it doesn’t mean that they came with a conscious plan of conquest.

  185. Sean says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Thanks! It is pretty basic stuff, Israel suffering a defeat would make every country look to the Soviet Union as a better ally than America. it is the same reason as South Vietnam once backed could not be allowed to be defeated, and realising that SV started to victimize the US.

    Kissinger would be anti Semitic if he thought that would get him inside the defences of his ‘mark’. He told the Soviet Ambassador that he hoped Israel did not win a clear victory in the 1973 war. First meeting with Assad, in 1973

    KISSINGER surprised Assad with the claim that his major obstacle emanated from those who control “the financial capital and means of communications” in the U.S., not so subtle code for the Zionist lobby

    Removing Egypt from the conflict was taking the main deterrent to Israeli aggression away and leaving them free to open a new front by aggression against Lebanon, which is exactly what they did.

    Assad already knew what Sadat was like because although they had planned the 1973 surprise attack on Israel together, Sadat had stopped fighting when things got tough, leaving Assad to face the concentrated power of Israel alone. The Israelis were 30 kilometers from Damascus and long range shelling its military airport when the arrival of an Iraqi armored division took the steam out the advance. Assad then agreed there should be a joint Syrian-Iraqi attack on the Israel forces in Syria, but called it off. Saddam was no doubt disgusted with Assad. It can be seen that when Arabs tried to unite against Israel, that was when Israel could most easily fulfil its function of keeping the Arabs divided.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  186. donut says:
    @Lin

    “–For the immediate future, its very likely next morning we would still wake up alive and wouldn’t be knocked down by a car in the neighborhood.” Maybe your neighborhood , I live in a suburb of Baltimore and the city has been bleeding into the suburbs for a few years now . There are a few places I don’t like to go .

    ” it’s more a vehicle of arab/arabised power than ANYTHING.” “Sunni Islam is the ONLY big pillar of Arab Civilization.” North Africa and The Levant had a long history of Pagan and Christian history prior to the Islamic conquest , I wonder how much residual memory there is in those places of that identity . You specifically mention the Sunni sect but of course the other major Islamic sect is the Shia one which is dominant in Persia . Persia had an old and advanced culture when these bumpkins from the desert showed up . Did they take to Shia Islam as a way to preserve a separate identity and culture ? The Shia form of Islam is really alien to the Sunnis . It’s got some truly bizarre tenets .
    The Greco/Roman Pagan model was probably superior . Monotheism appears to have been a catastrophe in the long run for any area it established itself . Bolshevism and it’s current Progressive incarnation seem to me to be it’s direct decedents .

  187. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    TL/DR: If it wasn’t for those pesky Jews, everything would be perfect, especially in Muslim countries.

    This is so patently false that it is laughable. The decline of Islam began long before modern Zionism. Islamic countries are pits everywhere, whether close to or far away from Israel. Iraqi living standards increased because they were sitting on an enormous pool of oil but Saddam wasted most of that oil wealth on weapons and palaces and he failed to build any sort of industrial base or knowledge base – 99% of their GDP was based on oil spouting up out of the ground. The intellectual output of the entire Muslim world is close to zilch.

    But suppose a Muslim-controlled West sanctioned Israel for its war crimes and dropped bombs to kill Israel leaders and figures. Where would Israel be?

    You’re asking the wrong question – the question is what would those Western countries be and the answer is smoking piles of rubble. Jew killing is never going to be cheap again. From now on it carries a very high price tag. You can still buy it if you want but you’re going to pay for it very dearly. The good old days are not coming back.

  188. @anonymous

    I just have the data from me, #245. However, since you mention it, I have had a few comments (less than 1%, but then you know I write a lot of them) get held up inordinately long. I can’t tell if it was something that Steve figures will just look bad up on here, or were they just plain skipped, as this must be a tedious manual process.

    Here’s an idea: For all the commenters whose comments appear immediately (as in their time stamp is pretty much what GMT is when you notice them appear after reloading over a short time span) at the weird hours when yours and mine don’t, do this: click on their names and see how long they’ve been commenting here. Perhaps you can see a pattern of long-termers (back beyond some certain point) having comments appear pretty much after the 5 minute EDIT-window, or not …

    .

    .

    .

    .

    … OR, send him $10,000 in cash to the house.

  189. @Jack D

    Jack, except for in onesies and twosies who truly assimilate, Moslems may THINK they are moving to the West to get away from something, but just like Californicators that move to Washington State, Idaho, and Texas, they bring themselves with them, including their dicked-up mindsets. Whatever happened to “do as the Romans do” or was that just advice for tourists?

    • Agree: bomag
  190. Sean says:
    @RickinJax

    Belloc was a rhymer.

    Lord Swaythling whom we love and knew
    On earth as Mr. Montagu,
    Will probably be known in hell
    As Mr Moses Samuel:
    For though they do not sound the same,
    The latter is his real name.

    At the end of Piccadilly is a place
    Of habitation for the Jewish race.
    Awaiting their regained Jerusalem,
    These little huts, they say, suffice for them.
    Here Rothschild lives, chief of the tribe abhorred
    Who tried to put to death Our Blessed Lord.

    But, on the third day, as the Gospel shows,
    Cheating their machinations, He arose:
    In Whose commemoration, now and then,
    We persecute these curly-headed men.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Jack D
  191. Vinay says:

    This would be a bit like someone writing in 1900 predicting the Russian takeover of Poland, but assuming it’d involve a victory for Orthodox Christianity over Catholicism! Or predicting a “Confucian challenge to the West” in the 21st century.

    Nuisance value is not the same as ideological challenge.

  192. @Brutusale

    I’m out of touch, never heard of her.

    What was the turning point, that moment when you said I don’t want to do this anymore?

    My mom found out.

    In the UK you’d be taken “for a holiday” back to Pakistan and never heard of again. Even turning down an arranged marriage can lead to the chop.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shafilea_Ahmed

    Ahmed’s mother had lived in the UK for 24 years IIRC, and she needed an interpreter in court.

  193. Jack D says:
    @Sean

    KISSINGER surprised Assad with the claim that his major obstacle emanated from those who control “the financial capital and means of communications” in the U.S., not so subtle code for the Zionist lobby

    Kissinger would never lie and tell an Arab dictator what he thought the dictator wanted to hear.

    Assad then agreed there should be a joint Syrian-Iraqi attack on the Israel forces in Syria, but called it off. Saddam was no doubt disgusted with Assad.

    If the Israelis were 30 km from Baghdad, would Saddam have risked his own neck? Saddam was brave because he was playing on someone else’s territory and had nothing to lose except a few tanks. Assad took the cease fire because Egypt had already done so and the Israelis could bring full force against Syria. On 20 October alone, the Arab forces in Syria lost 120 tanks. On 23 October, the Syrian Air Force lost 10 jets. Even with Soviet re-supply they could not continue to sustain such losses.

    It’s not the Israelis fault that Arab leaders like to stab each other in the back.

    Assad made the right choice for Syria. What he had to lose was much more than what he could have gained from continuing the battle. All the Syrian gains from the first days of the surprise attack at that point had been erased and the chances that, even with Iraqi help that he could reverse the loses and retake the Golan, let alone Israeli territory were nil at that point unless the Soviets had been willing to provide manpower and not just materiel (and they weren’t). In the end, if he had broken thru to Tel Aviv, the Israelis would have nuked Damascus so the best thing that ever happened to him was that they failed to break thru. Saddam himself never knew when to throw in the towel and he died on the gallows and his sons and grandson shot by the Americans, ratted out for a $30 million reward. Assad died peacefully in his bed and his son still rules.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Johann Ricke
  194. @Sean

    Lord Swaythling whom we love and knew
    On earth as Mr. Montagu

    Ashley?

    For British Jewish immigrant provocateurs with that particular fussy name, I much prefer this guy:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashleigh_Brilliant

    Oh, wait… There was a real one:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Montagu,_1st_Baron_Swaythling

  195. J.Ross says:

    FORGET 4D CHESS — 256D HNEFATAFL IS INCONTROVERTIBLY REAL AND REFRESHINGLY IMMINENT

    GREATEST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY
    FRUSTRATING ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, WHO WOULD HAVE BEATEN JACKSON

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Dave Pinsen
  196. @Almost Missouri

    Kissinger actually kept Israel from winning a more decisive victory against Egypt in 1973. Ariel Sharon’s counterattack had the Egyptian 3rd Army surrounded on the African side of the Suez and was threatening Cairo. Kissinger demanded the Israelis not destroy the encircled Egyptian army group. IIRC, he bluffed and told them the Soviets had threatened to intervene directly otherwise.

    Kissinger isn’t a good example of an ethnocentric Jew.

    • Replies: @Sean
  197. @Jack D

    The intellectual output of the entire Muslim world is close to zilch.

    Well, they did name the stars– all that coffee and clear skies, with nothing else to do.

    And they gave us this gem:

    (Note the face in the upper stories. That is not halal!)

  198. Jack D says:
    @Sean

    Belloc was a intellectual sort of anti-Semite. He object to the Jews as a group on the basis that they were incompatible with the framework of the Catholic order of post-Roman Europe and he objected to Jewish financial corruption such as insider trading schemes. But he disliked crude ignorant anti-Semitism, had Jewish friends and objected to discrimination against Jews on the individual level.

    • Replies: @West Reanimator
  199. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    One of the clearest comparisons is that both Eastern European Jewry and Levantine (and Egyptian) Arabs, at about the same time, each had an educational “renaissance.” The Jewish one was HaSkalah and the Arab one was called the Nahda. The Eastern European Jewish one was sort of separate and a bit later than the Jewish Enlightenment of Mendelssohn, but it was comparable in its world-changing effects, which came to be both revolutionary within the community and effective outside of it (HaSkalah feeds directly into Eastern European Zionism through such famous cultural figures as the poet Bialik, who argued that Zionism was the logical conclusion of the new consciousness). The Nahda was … certainly internally beneficial, but not the same thing, and really didn’t lead to anything a person outside of Arabic culture could easily point to.

  200. @Jack D

    Jew beating doesn’t seem to carry a high price tag in Brooklyn these days.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  201. George says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “Where did the Church get all the lands from? ”

    Ask E Michael Jones https://www.bitchute.com/emichaeljones . But the thing to note is the ‘lands’ came with improvements like monasteries with businesses like wineries, ect. So it may not have been unimproved acreage only.

    Related is:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_land#Enclosure_and_decline
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure

    E Michael Jones claims the Nutcracker ballet is post Napoleon nostalgia for the Catholic Holy Roman Empire.
    https://archive.org/details/emichaeljones-performingthenutcrackerascounterrevolutionaryact

  202. J.Ross says:

    Right now on 4chan, US govtrolls or JIDF are violating posted content rules by reposting the same zero-effort factless sourceless screed verbatim over and over. It’s an especially dumb piece of propaganda claiming that Iran will impose Sharia law on the US (but Muslim “refugees” won’t?), and of course, it’s ALLCAPS, which has long been as good as misspelling the President’s name for signalling something to ignore.
    The gist of this scripted and repeatedly reposted talking point?
    Complaint of Iranian “shilling.*”
    I attempted to point put the irony (and the numerous rule violations) but it turns out I’m banned. You know who’s not banned? The spambot reposting over and over that Iranians are “shilling.” I might be banned because I did point out the irony several times last night, in separate iterations of coming across the same damn script being respammed (but always with a different and irrelevant image, ie, to elude spam filters, which is also against the rules).
    The basis for calling this a govtroll is experience plus the line in Goodfellas about nobody but a cop being so clumsy, careless, and loud. It’s a moderation-proof rule-violating ALLCAPS blatt on constant repeat about nefarious “foreign meddling” (horrors!) — only the boomer or older denizens of the unpurged DC swamp could think this is a good idea.
    The basis for seeing Iranians is people complaining about the possibility of a wider war. Now, there are numerous signs that Trump is serious about limiting this, and I do not expect a wider war, but, at the very possibility, I am positively, as it were, “Iranian” about going Bolton.
    It’s a step up from “being” a Russian.

    *Isn’t reposting spam? Yes, and especially if it’s a lot of simultaneous reposts. 4chan terms overlap but do not match normie vocabulary (cf what OP always is). 4chan shilling for these purposes definitely includes the behavior of the spambot warning everyone of Iranian shilling. This imbecile could respect the rules (and enjoy more success) if he wrote an original and better post with proper arguments, archived sources, and, dare we dream, lower-case letters, but then as a shill that’s just not what his employer is paying him for.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Desiderius
  203. Daniel H says:
    @Sean

    Carlton Coon said the Islamic empire’s power was unusually dependant on ‘special peoples’ (mainly Jews)

    Who are the noted Jews of the several caliphates, Seljuk and Ottoman states? Name them please.

    • Replies: @Sean
  204. Anonymous[310] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    On another note, surely it was the Soviet support for the Arabs in the 1973 war which really triggered the massive push for the voluntary emigration of Soviet Jews to Israel.
    One can imagine the torment of Soviet Jewish technologists in the Soviet military industrial complex knowing that the fruit of their effort/industry was being used to attack Jews.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  205. Dumbo says:
    @Lagertha

    Hong Kong has shown the world that young people will prevail.

    Young people will become middle-aged and then old.

    The boomers were young people once too.

    Unfortunately I don’t share your optimism/idealism about young people or the future.

    Drone and facial recognition will be used yes, but to control white people.

    But I agree that we need simply to forget about the Middle East – both Muslims and Israel. Get all military out of there, and get rid of the Muslim immigrants in Europe and US. It’s not our problem.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  206. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:

    OT
    Strange things in politics. Remember Valerie Plame? Remember when was totally the most serious cause for libtards, because reasons? Well, she’s running for Congress. Plus…she discovered a Ukrainian ancestor, so…

    https://www.abqjournal.com/1406673/plame-has-joined-jewish-temple.html

    Odd coincidence: Epstein had a ranch somewhere outside of Santa Fe. That’s where the graphic painting of Jizzylean Maxwell is supposed to have graced the wall of a large room.

  207. Daniel H says:
    @donut

    Did they take to Shia Islam as a way to preserve a separate identity and culture ? The

    Shia Islam came to Persia relatively late (the 16th century). Prior to that date the dominant strain of Islam in Persia was Sunni Islam.

  208. Lagertha says:
    @Jack D

    Rubbish. NGO’s funded by globalists have brought boatloads of Muslims into Europe, intentionally. Caravans of Meso-Americans, Mexicans, with loads of Africans and Muslims have been actively pursued, orgainized, funded and protected and brought to the Southern Border by these same evil people. Without money, funding and paper work of some kind, there’s no way these people could afford to get to Europe or the USA/Canada. They are backed by dark money from globalists intent on destroying the cultural fabric & civil societies of USA & individual European countries.

    Sweden has a parasitical parallel culture living off of taxpayers and their fear, and, it is too late to do anything about it. Muslims are continually knifing and raping people in Europe and Scandinavia. But, keep spreading your BS since you don’t care, because it does not affect you or your family/community – you don’t live anywhere near migrants.

  209. @Vinay

    I predict a Confucian challenge to the West in the 21st Century.

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    , @Lin
  210. @Jake

    Oliver Cromwell readmitted the Jews to Britain, a move that contributed to the historic rise to dominance of British power and the centuries-later hijacking of that power.

    There is nothing inherent to either Protestantism or Catholicism that made such outcomes inevitable. Those who pine for the reimposition of corrupt Roman theocracy on the West ignore that freedom of conscience is an inherent identity of the West, and that realistic and factual understanding of the world, including of group differences, was and is a product of the rationalism that derived from the Reformation.

  211. @Desiderius

    They have the same problems of empty materialism and lack of fertility.

  212. J.Ross says:

    A British nurse has attempted to tell the truth about government child abuse. Sure will be a shame when she has a fatal heart attack after no history of cardiovascular disease.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/06/children-cannot-give-consent-transgender-treatment-nurse-launching/

  213. My guess is that Belloc, a literary intellectual, underestimated just how much military power would be depending upon both technical and organizational skills.

    The other glaring thing is HBD.

    One thing that repeatedly props up with sincere Christians is that they tend toward culturalism. The believe Christianity is what creates a good society and all you need for everyone needs to get along.

    So you see white Christians dragging these Uganda or Ethiopian babies over here–actually making our demographics worse even if they are pro-natal and have three or four kids of their own. (Maddening.)

    And i think it’s true that Christianity is better than anything else in building a good, decent, prosperous society. It stress the right values/behavior and is probably worth about a 5 IQ point bump. In contrast Islam, seems to subtract about 5 IQ points from a nation’s functioning, as well as encouraging violence and being a bad religious neighbor.

    But Western Civ is a lot more than just Christianity as a religion. It was Christianity as civilizing, detribalizing, community building force–building cooperation and neighborliness–acting on European people.

    (This detribalizing was successful on pretty much everyone but the Jews, who refused integration and built a strong anti-integration religious narrative and the late arriving similarly strongly anti-outsider gypsies.)

    Christianity is great stuff. But it did not alone create the West. Quality raw material to work with was needed.

  214. Dunno….I think our Jews are overly neurotic & sometimes almost insufferable. But, when I read the sheer amount of hatred & vitriol, combined with incredible obscurantism, I say to myself: if I was in their place, I’d probably go nuts & develop a paranoia on steroids….

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  215. @Jack D

    It’s not the Israelis fault that Arab leaders like to stab each other in the back.

    Saddam did not stab Assad in the back. From a favor standpoint, he literally owed Assad nothing. Whereas this is a stab in the back:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_II_of_Iraq#Downfall_and_murder

    • Replies: @Jack D
  216. Lin says:
    @donut

    I want to point out (sunni) Islam has a mental stranglehold on the arabs/arabised people.
    They’ll not replaced (sunni)Islam by anything else. The percentage of apostates among them is exceedingly small.

    Zoroastrianism is the native religion of Persia but the average Iranians sadly avert from it.
    Pre-Mohamed arabs I think revered jewish prophets and Jesus (besides a number of cultus, like a certain ‘daughter of god’)but they were not jews nor Christians. Israel and the Christian west are their enemy and it’s unthinkable for them to give up islam.
    It’s also difficult for Islam to ‘reform’. The biggest problem really due to the fact that all the Islamic dos and don’t are old arab customs sanctified like:
    –Polygamy, cousin marriage, burqa,pork free diet …
    –All muslim prayers must be recited in Arabic. Prophet Mohamed once said Arabic is the official language of paradise(Jannah). Koran translated into other language is NOT Koran.
    –In non-arab muslim countries, it’s often a sign of piety to dress up like an arab. (Same with dyeing one’s beard orange like prophet Mohamed did to his.)
    ‘Reforming’ such dos and don’ts amount to blasphemy against their Prophet Mohamed who in reality is their greatest ever tribal/racial/national hero

  217. @donut

    North Africa and The Levant had a long history of Pagan and Christian history prior to the Islamic conquest, I wonder how much residual memory there is in those places of that identity.

    Speaking for North Africa, I would say there is little memory of anything prior to the Islamic conquest. The Islamization and Arabization of the region was very thorough, though it was briefly interrupted by 130 years of French colonial rule.

    The restive Berber minority bases its grievances around their non-Arab, non-Turkish ethnicity and official recognition of their language, which was granted by Morocco in 2011 and Algeria in 2016. Those seem rooted in the Berber cultural identity, separate from any specific, pre-conquest historical identity.

    • Replies: @donut
  218. Culpepper says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    I was told by a doctor who spent time as a P.O.W. in a Japanese camp that it was a trope amongst his fellow inmates that their captors were a Darwinian throwback. I think that may have played a part in inspiring Planet of the Apes.

    From Wikipedia:
    Pierre Boulle (20 February 1912 – 30 January 1994) was a French novelist best known for two works, The Bridge over the River Kwai (1952) and Planet of the Apes (1963), that were both made into award-winning films.[1]

    Boulle was an engineer serving as a secret agent with the Free French in Singapore, when he was captured and subjected to two years’ forced labour. He used these experiences in The Bridge over the River Kwai, about the notorious Death Railway, which became an international bestseller. The film, named The Bridge on the River Kwai, by David Lean won seven Oscars, and Boulle was credited with writing the screenplay, because its two actual screenwriters had been blacklisted.[2][3]

    • Replies: @Jack D
  219. @Alden

    I’ve never seen that POV stated so succinctly.  Well-said.

  220. Romanian says:
    @Anonymous

    You can find it here, I think, along with a lot of other interesting books and articles. Just look for Revilo Oliver.

    https://b-ok.org/

    The actual article
    https://booksc.xyz/book/57555482/5da6a0

    Edit – my bad, it was a review

    Still, a lot of other Revilo Oliver books and articles there, including his academic stuff.

  221. syonredux says:
    @Sean

    Iran/Persia supplied a disproportionate amount of Islam’s brainpower:

    Among the various countries and cultures conquered through successive Islamic conquests, a remarkable number of scientists originated from Persia, who contributed immensely to the scientific flourishing of the Islamic Golden Age. According to Bernard Lewis: “Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Persian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution.”[44] Science, medicine, philosophy and technology in the newly Islamized Iranian society was influenced by and based on the scientific model of the major pre-Islamic Iranian universities in the Sassanian Empire. During this period hundreds of scholars and scientists vastly contributed to technology, science and medicine, later influencing the rise of European science during the Renaissance.[45]

    Ibn Khaldun wrote in his work Muqaddimah (1377) that most Muslim contributions were generally the works of Persians specifically:[46]

    Most of the ḥadîth scholars who preserved traditions for the Muslims also were Persians, or Persian in language and upbringing, because the discipline was widely cultivated in the ‘Irâq and the regions beyond. Furthermore all the scholars who worked in the science of the principles of jurisprudence were Persians. The same applies to speculative theologians and to most Qur’ân commentators. Only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus, the truth of the following statement by the Prophet becomes apparent: ‘If scholarship hung suspended in the highest parts of heaven, the Persians would attain it.’

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

  222. Lot says:
    @J.Ross

    256D? That’s crazy. There are only *11* dimensions. Ask Physicist Dave or some random Jew with a large forehead for details. These are also extremely helpful:

  223. @J.Ross

  224. @Almost Missouri

    You might be right that he was whistling past the graveyard there.

  225. syonredux says:
    @Alden

    Mongol Conquests probably didn’t help….

    On January 29, the Mongol army began its siege of Baghdad, constructing a palisade and a ditch around the city. Employing siege engines and catapults, the Mongols attempted to breach the city’s walls, and, by February 5, had seized a significant portion of the defenses. Realizing that his forces had little chance of retaking the walls, Al-Musta’sim attempted to open negotiations with Hulagu, who rebuffed the Caliph. Around 3,000 of Baghdad’s notables also tried to negotiate with Hulagu but were murdered.[27] Five days later, on February 10, the city surrendered, but the Mongols did not enter the city until the 13th, beginning a week of massacre and destruction.

    Many historical accounts detailed the cruelties of the Mongol conquerors. Baghdad was a depopulated, ruined city for several centuries and only gradually recovered some of its former glory.

    The Mongols looted and then destroyed mosques, palaces, libraries, and hospitals. Priceless books from Baghdad’s thirty-six public libraries were torn apart, the looters using their leather covers as sandals.[28] Grand buildings that had been the work of generations were burned to the ground. The House of Wisdom (the Grand Library of Baghdad), containing countless precious historical documents and books on subjects ranging from medicine to astronomy, was destroyed. Survivors said that the waters of the Tigris ran black with ink from the enormous quantities of books flung into the river and red from the blood of the scientists and philosophers killed.[29]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @HA
  226. Corvinus says:

    “It’s interesting that Islamic countries, while they improved considerably versus 1936, haven’t gotten much past technological mediocrity over the last 85 years.”

    Let me offer the requisite context that Mr. Sailer once again neglected to provide.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/08/saudi-arabia-racing-high-tech-hub-china-is-ready-to-join-in

    https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/343449

    http://ftreporter.com/top-3-technological-advancements-in-the-united-arab-emirates/

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/02/oil-reliant-uae-bets-big-on-tech-start-ups-and-ai.html

    • Replies: @syonredux
  227. Lin says:
    @Desiderius

    I predict a Confucian challenge to the West in the 21st Century.

    There’s a number of problems with such statement:
    –First of all, it’s hard to define what ‘confucism’ is.
    –Confucius himself was an agnostic. he asked people to stay away from worshipping ‘gods and spirits’. In bigger Chinese cities, one might find a confucist temple which is often more a tourist attention more than anything else(and the temple keepers had some kind of ritual dance on his birthday). Confucism is NOT a religion in the sense of Christianity, islam…
    Those ‘Confucist Institutes’ outside china are basically just institutes teaching Chinese language.
    –Confucism has been thoroughly criticized by Chinese leftists though excessively as admitted by the Chinese govt. Confucius ,like his contemporaries, was a male chauvinist pig .
    –Both Jesus and Confucius had parentage issue. Jesus is the Son of God to christians but its quite alright to call Confucius a bastard (because he really was one)

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  228. KenH says:
    @Alden

    As I recall, the European guy who engineered and built the cannon originally tried to sell them to the Byzantines of Constantinople who either didn’t have the money or weren’t interested. The Turks had the money and saw the value without which they may have never conquered Constantinople and Turkey might be much smaller than it is today.

  229. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    Possibly but I’ve never seen anything that would support that. OTOH, it’s a fact that as Soviet support for Arab dictators cranked up, domestic anti-Semitism increased and Soviet Jews came to be seen as disloyal and unsuitable for sensitive government positions (and in the USSR EVERY job was a government position) so that the doors of opportunity were increasingly closed to them. And this definitely made them want to leave.

    • Replies: @houston 1992
  230. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus

    Most people think that science and math and engineering are found everywhere, like soccer, but actually, they are regional practices, more like hurling or tossing the caber. In the map, countries are resized according to the number of scientific papers they produce. Population size plays a role, but average productivity matters more. Note that Singapore, with a population of 5 million, looks bigger than Indonesia, with 240 million people.

    Like the Chinese and Indians, some ethnic groups show mediocre results in their benighted homelands and better results in Western countries. On the other hand, other groups do poorly everywhere. People whose ancestors are from sub-Saharan Africa produce very few scientific papers – on average – no matter where they live. This is also the case (to a lesser extent) for mestizos from central and South America, for Filipinos and Malays, and most of the Indian castes. You don’t see much out of the Middle East, either – although Armenians are an exception, and there may be others. Interestingly, Armenians were generally thought (by themselves and others) to be smarter than the average bear back in Byzantine times.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/zones-of-thought/

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Corvinus
  231. J.Ross says:
    @syonredux

    There are tons of voluntary cultural limitations which come straight from the prophet or predated the Mongols: also, while the sack of Baghdad was a disaster, it happened once, to one city. This argument is like redlining.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @anon
  232. @Jack D

    Belloc was a intellectual sort of anti-Semite. He object to the Jews as a group on the basis that they were incompatible with the framework of the Catholic order of post-Roman Europe and he objected to Jewish financial corruption such as insider trading schemes. But he disliked crude ignorant anti-Semitism, had Jewish friends and objected to discrimination against Jews on the individual level.

    And to Spielberg, that type of person is equally worthy of immolation as an SS thug.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Jack D
  233. Sean says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    The Soviet Ambassador reported being told by Henry Kissinger that he was worried about being assassinated by the Jewish Defence League for his anti Israel stand. He was a bullshitter, but when Kissinger told the Israel the Soviets were very serious about not letting Israel crush Egypt, he was sincere and Israel had good reason to believe him. The Soviet-Israeli War, 1967-1973 The USSR’s Intervention in the Egyptian-Israeli Conflict, advances the thesis that Soviet commitment to Egypt was very great, and in fact the Soviets were the ones who were pressing for practical measures for a military success against Israel soon after 1967.

    Apparently, in 1973 the Soviets had an air defence division in Egypt and it was directly engaged with the crossing of the canal and the protection of the bridgehead. Israel was slapped down by the US for publicly mentioning they were fighting Russians. Many Russians in the 90s were complaining they were combat veterans from fighting on the Egyption side in the Yom Kippur war and should get the special pension they were entitled to. Egypt wanted to pretend that had a capable armed forces, while the US did not want anyone to think that Soviets were useful allies for anyone facing a strong enemy backed by the US.

    Egyptians aggressively moving their anti aircraft asset far forward in violation of a treaty and unafraid of knocking down Israeli spotter planes in pre war artillery duels; massed and coordinated Egyptian artillery shooting very effectively and accurately; Egyptians organizing the crossing of the the canal by a huge number of tanks plus support vehicles; Egyptian pilots shooting down Israeli planes; Egyptians putting up a deadly air defence umbrella. Always thought there was something funny about it.

    First week goes well, in accordance with Soviet insistence at avoiding breakdowns in communication, the plan is stuck to , Then, Sadat orders his army commander to go beyond the air defences, contrary to the Russian sorry, Egyptian plan they were supposed to stick to. Then the Egyptian commander panics and orders a retreat that turns into a rout. Nonetheless, Israel cannot easily afford the casualties.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @AaronB
  234. HA says:
    @Almost Missouri

    “Well, Janissaries couldn’t marry… Also they weren’t Muslim.”

    Neither statement is true. Specifically, they couldn’t marry while on active duty, and they were recruited only from Christian (i.e., not Muslim or Jewish) families. In other words, they weren’t born Muslim.

    Wikipedia notes that:

    When a non-Muslim boy was recruited under the devşirme system, he would first be sent to selected Turkish families in the provinces to learn…the rules of Islam (i.e. to be converted to Islam)…Retired or discharged janissaries received pensions, and their children were also looked after.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  235. anon[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    You know who’s not banned? The spambot reposting over and over that Iranians are “shilling.”

    Serdar Argic is working for the Persians now? Who could have seen that one coming?

    Any mention yet of the Armenians massacring Turks?

  236. Sean says:
    @Daniel H

    https://www.unz.com/pfrost/from-slavs-to-slaves-part-ii/

    [T]his historical episode sheds an unflattering light on a group of Jews based in Spain and France who came to be called Radhanites. Being neither Christian nor Muslim, they were ideal middlemen for the overland trade route to Muslim Spain. At the other end of this route, there arose between the 8th and 12th centuries a network of trading posts across the Slavic lands that stretched from the Elbe in the West to the Volga in the East. These trading posts may have eventually given rise to the Ashkenazi community of Eastern Europe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule#Seljuk_Empire_(1077-1307)_and_early_Ottoman_rule
    Social integration allowed Jews to make great advances in new fields, including mathematics, astronomy, philosophy, chemistry and philology,[10] with some even gaining political power under Islamic rule.[9]:55 For example, the vizier of Baghdad entrusted his capital to Jewish bankers, Jews were put in charge of certain parts of maritime and slave trade, and Siraf, the principal port of the caliphate in the 10th century, had a Jewish governor.[11]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#Banking_and_finance
    During the Classical Ottoman period (1300–1600), the Jews, together with most other communities of the empire, enjoyed a certain level of prosperity. Compared with other Ottoman subjects, they were the predominant power in commerce and trade as well as diplomacy and other high offices. In the 16th century especially, the Jews rose to prominence under the millets, the apogee of Jewish influence could arguable be the appointment of Joseph Nasi to Sanjak-bey (governor, a rank usually only bestowed upon Muslims) of the island of Naxos.[8] Also in the first half of the 17th century the Jews were distinct in winning Tax farms.

    https://www.webcitation.org/5ukCn6F22?url=http://www.tnr.com/print/book/review/the-other-secret-jews

    [S]everal Dönme were leading members of the Committee for Union and Progress, the revolutionary party known as the Young Turks, .

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  237. Brutusale says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    I think a lot of people look at the recent black-on-Jew violence the same way they look at a dog owner getting mauled by their “gentle” pitbull. Violent pets will eventually act out.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  238. @anonymous

    I don’t buy it — too many of my heterodox comments have been whimmed for hours while the “Hey, Steve” fanboy stuff piles up.

    Authors on unz.com have the power to designate commenters whose comments are automatically approved; everyone else has to wait.

    I am auto-approved on anepigone.  Not here, and not on sbpdl despite me being a commenter for many years on Blogspot.  Deal with it.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  239. @syonredux

    What is that bump atop Brazil? And why are the Falklands so big?

    • Replies: @Lot
  240. @Sean

    I vaguely recall reading about North Korean pilots fighting on the Egyptian side.

  241. @Almost Missouri

    2) If they (banlieus and other assorted Muslim ghettos) did become truly independent, it would be a disaster for them because they are utterly nonproductive and parasitical. They may #RESIST the Euro police authorities, but they are busily scarfing up all the Euro welfare cornucopia they can get. They don’t want to shut that off. And the Euro authorities are too dumb to shut it off for them.

    It sure wouldn’t be hard.

    1.  Deploy concertina wire and vehicle barriers to wall off a no-go zone.
    2.  Turn off all utilities, including water.
    3.  Add incendiaries.
    4.  Fire upon anyone trying to get out.

    It would be very hard on the troops involved but it wouldn’t take more than a few days to remove the problem permanently.  Ideally the troops behind the guns on the APCs and tanks would be grizzled veterans who hadn’t long to live and were willing to pay the personal price as a gift to their grandchildren.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  242. @Brutusale

    It’s a bit different in that the Jews being beaten aren’t particularly woke on race; they live in close proximity to them because they’re poor.

  243. gregor says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Do remember though that this is a TV production and these people are professional actors. They often play up the reactions. And some of it is totally scripted. It makes for a better show.

    Seth McFarlane once did an opening Oscars musical number, “We Saw Your Boobs,” wherein he notes actresses that have gone topless. Some of the actresses look livid in the reaction shots. Charlize Theron looks truly pissed, but it was all staged. She and Seth are actually friends.

  244. @Lagertha

    Let Shia & Sunni fight to the death, once and for all (we don’t need their oil anymore)

    Don’t be so sure about that.  The USA was a net oil exporter through 1948; it wasn’t until 1949 that the USA imported oil, and the loss of swing-producer status in ~1970 enabled the first 1973 OPEC oil crisis.

    Shale-oil frackers are in deep financial trouble right now (several in bankruptcy), and the USA is facing another oil crisis unless some savior comes along.  Iran leaving the world oil market is ideally timed for that.  Ideally the USA would turn to a post-oil economy and let the whole Middle East crash and burn.  It’s not just possible, it’s almost easy.  But will our pols and interest groups LET US?

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  245. HA says:
    @syonredux

    “Mongol Conquests probably didn’t help….”

    But putting all the civilization eggs into just the Baghdad basket might have had something to do with Islam. The Mongols never got as far as Alexandria, or Casablanca, after all, or any number of other cities that might have taken up the slack once Baghdad fell.

    Sometimes, you just have to move farther out of reach and start again when you’re overrun, but it has been known to happen. Kiev –> Moscow, Kosovo –> Belgrade(eventually), etc. Sometimes one can even return later (Rome–>Avignon–>Rome.)

    The fact that Baghdad, according to some sources, had begun to decline even before the Mongols came probably had something to do with why none of that happened.

  246. @Hypnotoad666

    Time and time again, arabs have shown themselves to be utterly incompetent militarily and unable to field a cohesive fighting force.

    “When asked how and why Israelis win every battle, the celebrated general Moshe Dayan said it’s because they fight Arabs. ‘We’re a feuding people, not a warring people,’ Lebanese historian Kamal Salibi said to me once in Beirut. ‘We haven’t been good at war for hundreds of years.’ If Arabs could fight as effectively as, say, the Russians, Israel would have ceased to exist long ago. Most likely it would have died before its first birthday.”

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/hezbollah’s-relentless-rage-9700.html

  247. @Lot

    Cute but completely incorrect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cajamarca#Battle_and_Atahualpa’s_capture

    Depending on the source, the odds ranged from 18:1 to 48:1 in favor of the Inca.

    At Rorke’s Drift the odds were only 10-12:1 in favor of the Zulu.

  248. @Ron Unz

    Yes Ron’s point was just the point I made about Beloc and the Jews but I seem not to have made Steve’s cut. Perhaps it was just a snafu

  249. bomag says:
    @anonymous

    You really think that if we behaved more like Sweden, they would leave us alone?

    Oh, wait…

    • Replies: @anonymous
  250. @Reg Cæsar

    What a beautiful setup!

    Lebanese historian Kamal Salibi said to me once in Beirut. ‘We haven’t been good at war for hundreds of years.’ If Arabs could fight as effectively as, say, the Russians, Israel would have ceased to exist long ago. Most likely it would have died before its first birthday.”

    https://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

    You can replace, “Arab, ” with, “Muslim, ” in that article and most of it still holds true.

    fight as effectively as, say, the Russians

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Assessments_of_effectiveness

    By late February 2016, the Russian Air Force conducted around 60 airstrikes daily, while the American-led coalition averaged seven.[412] These Russian airstrikes have reportedly proven particularly effective against ISIS oil trade and supply routes in the Syrian Desert.[413]

    Indeed!

  251. AaronB says:
    @Sean

    During the War of Attrition that was a run up to the 73 war, Israel shot down multiple Soviet piloted aircraft in dogfights, without, I think, losing any of their own.

    When Israel discovered Soviet pilots were flying against them, at first they avoided them and refused combat. This led to the Soviets getting a sense of impunity, at which point the Israelis realized they had to fight. They did, and ended up handing the Soviets a humiliating defeat.

    At the time, this comforted the Egyptians greatly, because it made their own failures seem less severe, but it was a source of embarrassment to the Soviets.

    It was a risky gambit for the Israelis to take on Soviet pilots – but I am sure they consulted with the Americans, who were probably all too pleased at the result.

    • LOL: utu
    • Replies: @AaronB
  252. @Ron Unz

    Oops! My comment was there. Apologies to Steve

  253. @Lockean Proviso

    I suppose we’ll see just how empty that materielism proves to be, or otherwise.

  254. obvious says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The Palestinian Arabs do not “live on coveted land”. They are crammed into rundown middle eastern slums like their brethren throughout the third world.

    At no time did any Jew “covet” any Arab’s land, although they bought land and took up empty land when able. The issue is not “land space”, it is too many people in too small an area that have no earthly business being there to begin with, and I refer to the Arabs for the most part.

    They are 80% migrants from the 20th century and heavily attracted by the UN “refugee” system, which is giant welfare program the like of which is found in the accumulation of people in large 3rd world cities, when subsidised by oil money (like the “Palestinians”) and other policies.

    You couldn’t “include” them even if you wanted to, there is nowhere to “include”. Israelis must control all the land between the River and the Sea or they must flee, there is no 3rd option except nuclear war. Look at the photos of the latest dancing kaffirs they are too dark and often African looking to be real “Palestinians”, or the just look Egyptian or Beduin, because that’s where they really came from originally. The actual “Palestinian” natives were 50% Christians originally, and many very white to Mediterranean, some more Arabic. They are more likely to hold a stable, recognized citizenship, and have already long been “dealt with”.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  255. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I assume the Falklands are inflated the same amount as UK, and the blob atop Brazil is a similarly-inflated French Guiana.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  256. @Jim from Boston

    Incredible display of mechanical innovation from many years ago (like ancient hydraulic screws) …

    The Archimedes screw is believed to have been invented in Egypt in the 3rd century BC.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Jim from Boston
  257. istevefan says:
    @anonymous

    I have no idea what your comment was supposed to convey.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  258. J.Ross says:
    @West Reanimator

    Is there any word in any language less meaningful than “anti-Semite”? It almost never means “a person who hates Jews for being Jewish,” and it’s stretched to embrace completely different types of people.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  259. Jack D says:
    @West Reanimator

    Had the Holocaust not occurred, some types of “polite” or “rational” anti-Semitism such as Belloc’s might have remained socially acceptable but the Nazis put all anti-Semitism (and certain other things, such as eugenics) into deep disrepute from which it still has not recovered (and maybe never will, in the West at least). So don’t blame Spielberg (who I’m not sure actually has the beliefs you are attributing to him anyway), blame Himmler for giving anti-Semitism a really bad name.

  260. @J.Ross

    Looks like a pretty good Jarrett/Iranian psyop. Fooled you.

  261. @Lin

    Your Western maleducation was worse than useless. Of course it’s not a religion. Only a fool would think it was. Nothing else you’ve said matters one iota.

    Reconnect with your roots. At the very least read the man himself.

  262. @Rapparee

    Whatever prescience it might have had is destroyed by the fact it is Chesterton’s worse work by far. It’s kind of hard to imagine how Chesterton wrote such a boring book with such an interesting premise.

    Even when Chesterton’s abilities start to get away from him-like in the final story of the man who knew too much- he still spills out great phrases like “coolie capitalism.” No such luck in the flying inn.

  263. syonredux says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Melania is certainly a first-rate First Lady:

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    , @Almost Missouri
  264. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Perhaps the Archimedes screw was a bad example but there were others.

    For example, the Greeks invented the astrolabe in ancient times. It would have been lost if the Arabs had not picked it up and improved it – they kept the ancient Greek knowledge alive at a time when no one in the West cared about it. When Europeans again became interested in sea voyages and celestial navigation, they purchased their astrolabes (the high tech devices of their time) from the Islamic world and translated treatises from the Arabic. Chaucer compiled A Treatise on the Astrolabe for his son, mainly based on a work by Messahalla (a Persian Jew).

    I think the same is true of many ancient inventions (and books). The Greeks and Romans originally invented them but the Arabs kept them alive and improved them. Maybe even the Archimedes screw.

    It should be understood that the Arabs were mostly interested in these things for religious or practical reasons and not out of a spirit of inquiry or interest in knowledge for knowledge’s sake. For example, they used the astrolabe to find the direction toward Mecca and the times for prayers. They invented algebra to do things like divide up inherited land.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  265. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    Contrary to your implication, “we” were (re)drawing boundaries, propping up unpopular governments, and otherwise stirring things up in the ME long before this (21st) Century. Had “we” not done so, the people who lived there would have been in a better position to improve their situations, and they and their successors more likely to have stayed put.

    Or is “invade the world, invite the world” no longer part of the catechism around here?

  266. Lagertha says:
    @syonredux

    perfect 10! J’Adore Melania.

  267. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @bomag

    Why do you assume that someone opposed to US imperialism supports immigration?

    It’s hard to believe that you’re serious in saying that “they [sh]ould leave us alone.” Ever notice the map of US military bases in the ME?

  268. Lagertha says:
    @Lot

    Lot, seriously, you are so not fun! hahaaaaa

  269. nebulafox says:
    @J.Ross

    The problem is more that the Mongols deeply jacked up the specific *part* of the Islamic World that was responsible for the intellectual progress: Central Asia, where the main language and culture was Persian, not Arab, and there was a history of proto-scientific investigation that predated Islam. Bukhara, Merv, Samarkand: cities like that got hit very hard by the Mongols, and to some extent never recovered. Even in Baghdad itself, most of the scholars you found were Persian, many of them recently converted Zoroastrians. Former Sassanid influence in general was omnipresent: just as many Popes and European emperors tried to embody the lost glory of Rome dressed up in Christian imagery, many a caliph repeated all the pretensions of the gone Kings of Kings, dressed up in pious Islamic idiom, of course.

    With that in mind, I think it’s important underline that the intellectual decline of the Islamic World was already in progress a century before the Mongols arrive. Al-Ghazali gets a lot of the heat for that, some of it justified, but in reality there were a lot of complicated, interlocking factors bumping off each other in a synergy of negative influence.

    So, no, the Mongols do not bear all the responsibility for what happened, least of all since they couldn’t manage to finish off the job in Egypt or Asia Minor. Still, not all the responsibility is not the same as no responsibility at all. The chaos the Mongols brought wasn’t limited to the Islamic World: it took Russia multiple centuries to recover from the pseudo-apocalypse.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  270. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20

    “By the end of the brief close-quarters dogfight, five Soviet MiG-21s had been downed with no Israeli losses.

    Egyptian military leaders were very pleased with the outcome of the battle because the Soviets had long been criticizing Egypt’s aerial losses to Israel and attributing them to a lack of skill among Egyptian fighter pilots. The Soviets kept quiet about the incident so as to avoid the embarrassment of their decisive defeat. It was one of the final engagements of the War of Attrition and is widely believed to have contributed to its conclusion.”

    • Replies: @Sean
  271. Lagertha says:
    @Dumbo

    I know…you are correct. I have to stay optimistic because of my adult children. However, chatter is everything!

    The chatter is, left & right of the young Millennials and Gen Z: anyone older than 30 sucks and is a sell-out. And, more importantly, the more these youth are on the internet conspiring against us all!, hahhahhhahhaaaaa.

    My sons Iranian friends are just as happy about stuff that is happening as are their friends in Europe or more remote parts of the USA/Asia/South America – kids are forming…Greta may not be their goddess, but they don’t need trivial things to change the paradigm of Earth.

    The kids are gonna kill us all! – and, we deserve to be killed-off, all of us, all of us born before 1990. Well, they won’t kill us, but they will make the new law of living one’s life.

  272. Rapparee says:
    @J.Ross

    Iberian adventurers in the Age of Discovery were seriously impressive. In tiny, tiny groups, over a very short span of time, they conquered a continent and a half, scattered vast distances over the four corners of the Earth, with nothing but zealous faith and clanging brass balls. (Okay, smallpox helped in some places, but not everywhere, and the Portuguese were on the other side of the disease front in Africa). It would be like a dozen Americans setting out in a space rocket in 1970, landing on a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri inhabited by millions of intelligent aliens, and conquering the whole lot of them in two years with almost no contact from Earth. They certainly deserved the love of the Nereids that Venus sent their way.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  273. Anonymous[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    The Norman invasion brought Jews to England and shortly thereafter the richest man in England was a Jewish financier named Aaron of Lincoln:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_of_Lincoln

    Cochran’s “Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence” and similar theories purport to explain the contemporary overrepresentation of Jews in certain fields today and their contemporary success and wealth by suggesting selection pressures beginning in the Medieval period culminating in traits today, but the examples you cite and other examples like that of Aaron of Lincoln suggest that they were already quite overrepresented and successful in certain fields like finance and trade before these selection pressures were supposed to have played out and had an effect. So either Cochran’s and similar theories are wrong, or Jewish overrepresentation and success in certain fields are to some extent independent of the intelligence that Cochran et al assert only arose recently.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  274. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    Roughly speaking, if we do a comparison between the caliphate and the Roman Empire:

    Arabs == original Latins. The conquerors. Good at warfare and engineering, but mostly only interested in knowledge if there’s a practical application to it. The best and brightest would study philosophy or science from older civilizations, but they wouldn’t innovate.

    Persians == Hellenistic World. The old-time civilization who do have the tradition of intellectual inquiry. They continue doing the intellectual work, partly as a way to take their minds off their conquest by a bunch of rude brutes from the west/south, and are often found as bureaucrats when they aren’t.

    Turks == Germanic peoples. The northern barbarian peoples who would form more sophisticated political arrangements as a direct result of interaction with the empire. They would fatefully become the military force of the empire when the natives no longer fight, which would ultimately lead to destruction.

    The caliphate’s history really does read like a hyper-sped up version of the Roman empire’s trajectory.

  275. anon[584] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    while the sack of Baghdad was a disaster, it happened once, to one city. This argument is like redlining.

    It is like redlining, because even now there are Iraqis who insist that their country would be OK except that the Mongols ruined everything and sigh, whine, whimper. 600+ years of excuse making.

  276. syonredux says:
    @nebulafox

    Arabs == original Latins. The conquerors. Good at warfare and engineering, but mostly only interested in knowledge if there’s a practical application to it. The best and brightest would study philosophy or science from older civilizations, but they wouldn’t innovate.

    Persians == Hellenistic World. The old-time civilization who do have the tradition of intellectual inquiry. They continue doing the intellectual work, partly as a way to take their minds off their conquest by a bunch of rude brutes from the west/south, and are often found as bureaucrats when they aren’t.

    Turks == Germanic peoples. The northern barbarian peoples who would form more sophisticated political arrangements as a direct result of interaction with the empire. They would fatefully become the military force of the empire when the natives no longer fight, which would ultimately lead to destruction.

    And, of course, the Germanic peoples later proved capable of producing great scientists, philosophers, and authors: Shakespeare, Newton, Goethe, Gauss, Milton, Faraday,Kant, etc. In contrast, the Turks have a somewhat less impressive record when it comes to intellectual achievement….

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  277. @Jack D

    Soviet anti semitism? In 1959 Jews could switch their nationality, without any proof–see below–, to Russian or whatever. Such a casual attitude indicates that the 1959 USSR was not zealous in identifying the Jews among them.

    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/23494/moshe-decter/the-status-of-the-jews-in-the-soviet-union

    “The Soviet Union officially recognizes Jews as a nationality. In the personal identification papers which all Soviet citizens carry (the internal “passport”), Jews must list their nationality as “Jewish” (Yevrei) just as other nationalities-such as Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians and others-must list theirs. Thus, in the official Soviet census returns of 1959, published in Pravda on February 4, 1960, Jews are listed among the official nationalities. In all previous censuses, citizens were required to provide proof, in the form of their internal passport, of their claim to belong to one or another nationality. In 1959, for the first time, they were allowed to volunteer, without proof, the nationality with which they chose to be identified. Despite the possibility thus provided for Jews to “pass,” 2,268,000 people specified their nationality as Jewish (there are reasons to believe that the total number more closely approximates 3,000,000).”

    • Replies: @Jack D
  278. Lagertha says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Yes. Let the Middle East die, well, let their youth build it up after all the warmongers are dead. Let all countries die…and unite to be productive and life-oriented.

    Nuclear works (Finland) and Norway is the oil country par excellence. We are the peaceful and quiet countries…we were also, not subjugated by USSR. We remained free*. The Nordic countries need to formally thank Finland; soon would be nice – without the heroism of my family and country: Scandinavia would have been subjugated by the USSR, just like Estonia and Lithuania.

    *it cost a lot of money – our money – so proud of my family who fought and died and survived.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    , @Mr. Rational
  279. @Hypnotoad666

    Yom Kippur.

    The Israelis shat their pants.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  280. @AaronB

    Look around you.

    They were correct.

  281. @joeyjoejoe

    Welcome to the Empire of the US Dollar.

    The bankers are grateful for your service.

  282. gregor says:
    @Mr. Anon

    To his credit, one of his race jokes was about how he had them cut the In Memorium segment because it just wasn’t diverse enough. And that he hoped for more diversity in the future.

  283. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous

    The Norman invasion brought Jews to England and shortly thereafter the richest man in England was a Jewish financier named Aaron of Lincoln:

    Medieval Christendom frowned on money-lending. Hence, Jews had an open field in Medieval Europe. That gave Jews a big plus factor when it came to acquiring wealth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Christianity

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  284. Jack D says:
    @Stebbing Heuer

    Pearl Harbor.

    The Americans shat their pants.

    Temporarily. Then they got their act together and BEAT the pants off the enemy, despite having the disadvantage of allowing the enemy to make the 1st move. In both cases.

    Arabs seem capable of winning battles now and then, but rarely wars in modern times. A battle can be won thru some temporary advantage of surprise or superior numbers or whatever but winning an entire war requires higher level skills.

    If you played chess with Magnus Carlsen could you take a couple of pieces from him before you were checkmated? Possibly. Could you win the game? No way.

  285. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha

    this is an ancient song…on a dulcimer-like instrument(kantele). It is a song about wanting a fighter/hunter to come back alive, and if he comes home wounded, his wounds will be dressed…even if he dies…and “I will take all wounds, swords or snakes, for you to live….your lips will bring me gold and life,” more or less.

  286. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke

    The Egyptians stabbed Assad in the back by agreeing to a cease fire before he did, thus leaving him to the tender mercies of the Israelis all by himself. At that point he had no choice but to sign up for a cease-fire, Iraqi help or not.

  287. J.Ross says:
    @Rapparee

    The whole deal with the damned smallpox nonsense is there’s absolutely no possibility of the Europeans using it on purpose or even knowing about communicability, we’re talking about people who never washed their hands and who relied on medicinal bleeding. And a battle is to short a time frame for it to be helpful anyhow.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  288. J.Ross says:
    @syonredux

    This isn’t true, there were different kinds of moneylending, and it should be pointed out that “irrational” Christian prohibitions on usury *are* Jewish prohibitions, which theoretically applied to Jews too, until the rabbis and not the popes decided otherwise. Unz’s own Michael Hudson writes about this. Ancient Middle Eastern communities recognized that loans were necessary to agriculture, but also that the State siding completely with the lender and insisting on every last drop of repayment Obama-style made no sense and was a direct threat to the State. Then the Roman upper class (and actually *not* Jews at all) rewired the historical understanding of this because the Roman upper class were precisely the peasant-entrapping land-swallowing money-lending society-dividing nation-wrecking bastards previously held back by (in Judea) the Jubilee (but the Jubilee had equivalents all over; one of the favorite activities of earlier, better Roman emperors was a Jubilee-style mass agricultural debt forgiveness. This was never interpreted to mean the forgiveness of all lent money). And predictably Rome had a lot of preventable problems, riots, and revolts thanks to its hostile elite demanding that the government make war on its own people. And that’s exactly what’s going to happen here if my student loan — I mean if the unpayable and wrongly lent debts in our economy are not reconsidered.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  289. The Egyptians stabbed Assad in the back by agreeing to a cease fire before he did, thus leaving him to the tender mercies of the Israelis all by himself.

    Even that wasn’t a stab in the back. What did the Egyptians owe Assad, favor-wise? Welshing on commitments, unless they received something concrete for it, is typical behavior for these types of loose spur-of-the-moment alliances, especially among Middle Easterners.

    Think Saladin and all the Muslim emirs and sultans he double-crossed and defeated. Who in turn took out his heirs after he died. If Egypt and Syria had overrun Israel, they’d have fought over the division of spoils. And it wouldn’t have been a verbal altercation.

  290. syonredux says:
    @J.Ross

    This isn’t true,

    What isn’t true? That the Medieval Church frowned on money-lending? Because that’s my point:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Christianity

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  291. J.Ross says:
    @syonredux

    They didn’t frown on “moneylending,” they frowned on a subtype of moneylending considered predatory and unjustifiable. This is like saying they frowned on “killing.”

    • Replies: @Jack D
  292. @Hypnotoad666

    The officers are selected for family and political connections.

    That’s the whole point. Third World soldiers aren’t docile, even submissive, before their betters the way Western officers are. They’ll put up a show of excessive servility, but in the background, they are plotting and planning. But it’s all for show. Select the wrong people, and you end up like this guy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_II_of_Iraq#Downfall_and_murder

    You’d think Muhammad’s direct line was entitled to be next in line to be caliph. You’d have guessed wrong. Muhammad’s men killed his grandson. That event shaped the division between Sunni and Shia. Shias thought Muhammad’s direct descendant should have been caliph. Sunnis did not.

    This kind of thing was not a particularly recent or even Islamic development. In Augustus’s time, Orodes II of Parthia killed his father and replaced him on the throne. Then he killed his brother, who had helped put him on the throne. And he killed the general who had defeated Marcus Crassus at Carrhae. And, in turn, he was killed by his son and heir Phraates III, who also disposed of his siblings.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  293. @Johann Ricke

    In pre-Shakespearean England, rivals for the throne routinely killed their cousins, but less often their brothers.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  294. @J.Ross

    Seen somewhere:

    “An anti-semite used to be a person who hates Jews.  Now it’s a person Jews hate.”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Desiderius
  295. @nebulafox

    Central Asia, where the main language and culture was Persian, not Arab, and there was a history of proto-scientific investigation that predated Islam.

    So you say it (a) predated Islam, and (b) was already declining under Islam before the Mongols dealt the death-blow.

    Pretty damning for Islam.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  296. @Lagertha

    Yes. Let the Middle East die

    Take away its unmerited oil income and illegitimate power.  Let them drink it, or die of thirst.

    well, let their youth build it up after all the warmongers are dead.

    They will screw their cousins forever.  Let the survivors go back to riding camels.

    Nuclear works (Finland)

    Also Sweden, France and Ontario.

    Norway is the oil country par excellence

    It is finite and will run out in another generation.  If Norway is wise, it will follow the example of Sweden and nuclearize.

    The Nordic countries need to formally thank Finland

    Simo Häyhä in particular.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  297. Sean says:
    @AaronB

    Even high ranking Russian were recovering from drinking ‘missions’ quite often. The War Of Attrition sure sounds like a Soviet style of making war. Given Israel’s relatively limited manpower resources and political sensitivity to losses, their victories increasingly took on a Pyrrhic aspect . The Russian aim was supposed to be trying to get an all out war started by Israel in 1967 so that the USSR could strut on the world stage as a strong protector of their outmatched ally in the face of a predatory attack.

    Kissinger’s main objectives were to let the world know that the political and military support given by America made it the superpower to be allied with, while at the same time excluding the Soviets from the diplomatic arena and not letting them get any credit for the successes in the early part of the war. It was noted that the crossing of the Canal was like a Soviet riverine operation of the 40s, due to the WW2 veteran generals originally sent by the USSR.

  298. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Every day. As I concluded, “Mr. Sailer is well worth reading, but he has some willfully blind spots. When disagreeing, just accept the practical reality that he may be the only person who sees your submission.”

    I couldn’t post this last night under the new limit on the number of comments. Still a fan, but Mr. Unz seems to be on a power trip lately. Maybe I should get a “real handle” and reach for one of those gold stars.

  299. @anonymous

    “When those of mine finally turn blue, they’re largely out of sight”

    Yet you’re getting more replies than most longtime commenters.

    “my email address could be cleared for immediate posting”

    If you’re not using it, it can’t be.

    Are you this whiny in real life, or is this a special look just for iSteve? If so, it’s not a good one. Are you hoping to whinge your way into the ranks of what other people have posted thousands of comments to reach? Maybe check out Ron Unz’s column on what he likes to promote in Unz.com commenters. (Hint: I don’t recall “noob whining” being very sought after.)

    • Replies: @anonymous
  300. @Nicolás Palacios Navarro

    Not so much “pre-modern” as “anti-modern”.

    I dunno about that. Muslims seem more than happy to adopt whatever modern technology is available: smart phones, high explosive, aircraft, GPS, etc. They may not produce much of it, but they will happily adopt it. And this isn’t just a recent phenomenon. Muslims have been big customers in the modern arms markets for centuries.

    it is largely a defensive posture. Unlike the caliphates of old, what modern reactionary Islam seeks is refuge from the Anglo-American modernist chaos engulfing the West.

    So sending millions of young men into foreign lands is defensive?

    To be fair, I’m sure many of them perceive it that way too, whatever the facts are. I once had a discussion with a Muslim colleague, who complained to me that he had to leave Sydney Australia for Melbourne because there was too much globohomo stuff in Sydney. I was sympathetic: I don’t like globohomo any more than he did, but I was born into that realm; he literally uprooted himself and advanced 14,000 km to assume what he perceived to be a “defensive” posture. Funny kind of defensiveness, that.

    The fact that Muslims are not united is certainly their weakest point, but also their strongest.

    Are Christians (or Hindus or Confucians or Jews) united? Also simultaneously weakest and strongest points in their cases too?

  301. @Vinay

    “Nuisance value is not the same as ideological challenge.”

    When your ideology is “Victory!” and your hosts’ ideology is “guiltily surrender to all dusky foreigners”, nuisance value appears to be enough of a challenge to prevail.

  302. @Lockean Proviso

    True, but strangely enough, in their case, this does not hold back their growth, cause a “Yellow Death” among them, incite them to open the borders of their ancient lands to hostile foreigners, or even cause them to avoid taking their own side in a contest.

    • Agree: Lockean Proviso
  303. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri

    You didn’t understand from my comment that I do, in fact, use my email address? And that I was trying to correct someone’s misapprehension about how things work around here?

    You sound jealous, so I looked at your history. Wow, a gold box in your first at bat! 2015 must seem so long ago …

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  304. anonymous[102] • Disclaimer says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean%E2%80%93Nogai_slave_raids_in_Eastern_Europe

    Reading about the Crimean slave markets for the first time. What is the extent of influence of Eastern European slaves via Crimea to Syria, etc. on the current day Levant genetic makeup?

  305. @HA

    1) Just because Wikipedia (unattributedly) says something, doesn’t make it true.

    2) Yes, you can probably find a Muslim somewhere who was descended from a Janissary, but it was something of an aberration, and it wasn’t part of what made Janissaries Janissaries.

    A lot of the exceptions to classic Janissary-ism date from the late Janissary era, when the Janissary Corps overflowed its traditional banks into other areas of Ottoman life, that is, the period just before the Caliph began cracking down on them and having them executed en masse.

    • Replies: @HA
  306. Jack D says:
    @houston 1992

    You’re kidding? The fact that Russian Jews could answer the census without having to show their passports meant that everything was great? You should get together with the guy who said that everything was great for Jews in Nazi Germany too. Apparently, things are always great for Jews everywhere – they’re just a bunch of whiners.

    Even if what you said made any sense (it doesn’t) the situation for Jews in the E. Bloc got much worse after the Soviet humiliation in the Six Day War. That was the point where almost the entire remaining Jewish community of Poland was expelled, for example.

  307. @Mr. Rational

    Yes, whenever we finally do get a SHTF event—EMP detonation, dollar/EBT collapse, Carrington event, whatever—it will be some variation on this. Even without a manned concertina wire perimeter, ghetto dwellers won’t get farther than a single, probably partial, fuel tank will carry them. In a lot of scenarios (EMP, Carrington), step 2 happens automatically.

    “It would be very hard on the troops involved”

    Mmm, depends on who’s involved I guess.

    “willing to pay the personal price as a gift to their grandchildren.”

    No doubt there would be individual cases (notwithstanding the increasing scarcity of native grandchildren), but given the historically demonstrated skill levels described upthread, I’d say the defenders of civilization would get to have their cake and eat it too.

    “it wouldn’t take more than a few days to remove the problem permanently.”

    In theory, but almost nothing works out as in theory.

  308. @nebulafox

    I kind of agree, except for “hyper-sped up”:

    Hegira (622) – abolition of Ottoman Sultanate (1922) = 1300 years.

    Augustus becomes Emperor (27 BC) – end of Constantinople (1453) = 1479 years.

    So, how about “sped up by 12%”?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  309. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Magic Dirt Resident

    That Spielberg movie where the Jews triumph over their tribal enemies in the third act.

    Not specific enough? Raiders.

    • Thanks: Magic Dirt Resident
  310. Corvinus says:
    @syonredux

    “Most people think that science and math and engineering are found everywhere, like soccer, but actually, they are regional practices.”

    They are found everywhere; it might not has prevalent or as advanced or as sophisticated. Indigenous tribes may also view those subjects different from us based on their upbringing and environment.

    https://www.survivalinternational.org/articles/3162-yanomami-botanical-knowledge

    “Like the Chinese and Indians, some ethnic groups show mediocre results in their benighted homelands and better results in Western countries.”

    The Chinese actually perform very well in their homelands and compared to others around the world based on tests; the Indians not so much. Of course, there are a myriad of factors that account for “mediocre results”.

    https://thediplomat.com/2017/01/why-does-india-refuse-to-participate-in-global-education-rankings/

    Study after study has shown that the true indicator of economic development in a country is the education and wellbeing of its people. Although, India has made rapid economic progress over the last three decades, one area that has not received enough attention is the quality of primary education. In fact, the former vice chancellor of the Delhi University bemoaned the fact that a large majority of students in the university were unemployable because of their inability to apply their knowledge in real-life situations. This is because of a poor foundation in schools, where the emphasis is more on rote learning, rather than testing a student’s creative skills.

    “You don’t see much out of the Middle East, either…”

    You do realize that this region saved Western Civilization. Read –> The House of Wisdom: How Arabic Science Saved Ancient Knowledge and Gave Us the Renaissance

    And, of course, there are a number of reasons why there is a lack of scientific papers from this region.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261436365_Scientific_research_in_the_Middle_East

    The Middle East is home to 5% of the world’s population. Nonetheless, only 1·5% of scientific papers published every year originate from this region. In January 2014, The Lancet published a Series entitled Research: increasing value, reducing waste. 1–5 In this comment, some important aspects of medical research in Middle Eastern countries are discussed. Despite nearly constant political turmoil over the past three decades, production of scientific papers in the Middle East has grown nearly four-times faster than the pace worldwide.

    It’s as if you and the author of the link you provide are completely out of touch.

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
  311. @Mr. Rational

    An anti-Semite in America is someone who sells guns to Jews.

  312. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @pirelli

    Web search Hanx, Kappy for a couple hours. Jokes about friends of Epstein and pedophile movies maybe too close to home for Mr Hollywood Nice Guy.

  313. @RichardTaylor

    I’ve been to Jordan, the Hashemite Kingdom, and met quite a few Jordanians. They’re fair skinned, quite a few with blue eyes. They’re still under white rule.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @RichardTaylor
  314. @anonynous

    The US was being counseled by Russian haters like Brezinski, and this eased the way for the Jewish tribalist Russian haters in the persons of the neocons into the inner counsels. The crazies in the basement were not going to stay there, particularly in light of the fact that they treated party affiliations like camouflaging gilly suits in their subversion of the Republic, Republicans one day, Democrats another. Israel uber Alles.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  315. @Alden

    If you haven’t read it, The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise is a counter to the hate-European histories. Well worth a read.

  316. @Jim from Boston

    Keep reading the story where the Maxim gun quote comes from. Hint: it’s ironic.

  317. Jack D says:
    @Achilles Wannabe

    Maybe he can combine it with a review of Mein Kampf and Henry Ford’s The International Jew?

    I think there’s been a lot of water under the bridge since 1922, such that a book from 1922 might not be the best guide to the world of 2022.

    As I mentioned in another comment, Certain Unfortunate Events put all anti-Semitism, including Belloc’s “polite” or “intellectual” form, in bad odor since 1945 and I don’t think you are ever going to get the smell out.

    Steve is already pegged as a “racist” in mainstream circles. Do you really want to make him into an untouchable?

  318. Jack D says:
    @J.Ross

    Yes, the subtype where you charge interest on loans.

    I have a problem with the concept of “predatory” lending. It implies that borrowers don’t have agency, aren’t adults capable of making rational decisions. Is it predatory when you take the money or only when you have to pay it back on the terms that you agreed to when you took it?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @anon
  319. Jack D says:
    @JerseyJeffersonian

    Those devious Joos, masquerading as “Americans”, “Republicans” , “Democrats”, etc. and bamboozling the naive and gullible goyim like Ronald Reagan and George Shultz (still alive at 99, BTW). If only there was some way to remind other Americans who they were REALLY dealing with. Perhaps there could be some sign, like say an armband that they could be required to wear, so there would be no mistake?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  320. @Bardon Kaldian

    Just because people are out to get you doesn’t mean you have to be paranoid, let alone nuts. They’ve deftly handled more meaningful opposition than this many times in the past. Now they have the leaders of both parties in the world’s most powerful nation fighting to see who can get them in their corner.

    The real threat is from within.

  321. @Jack D

    bamboozling the naive and gullible goyim like George Shultz (still alive at 99, BTW)

    Perhaps there could be some sign… so there would be no mistake?

    She did have that weird voice.

  322. @Jack D

    It’s predatory when people’s lives are rekt. If you don’t know people well enough to make that call accurately, you shouldn’t be in the business. Y’all used to have Jubilee Years to make sure no one fell through the cracks.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @J.Ross
  323. nebulafox says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Yeah, I believe “Rome” ended in 1453, too. Last emperor was not some scared little kid being bullied by a random Germanic general but a brave 40-something man lacing up his boots and dying like the last emperor of Rome should die. 🙂

    But I mostly had in mind the period from the early 7th Century to around the mid-9th Century, if we look at the period of “classical” (non-Byzantine) Rome. The disintegration of the Abbasid state into its constituent parts bears too many similarities to the collapse of the Western Empire to ignore, particularly with the parallel between the roles of the Germanic and Turkic peoples within the military of the declining state, with both sets of barbarians adopting the religion of the latter-day empire.

    You could draw a comparison between the Eastern Roman Empire and later Persian dyansties, maybe? Both of them went back to speaking the language they had before the Italians/Arabs arrived, Greek and Persian respectively, but continued the empire in terms of identity otherwise.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  324. anon[397] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I have a problem with the concept of “predatory” lending. It implies that borrowers don’t have agency, aren’t adults capable of making rational decisions.

    People with an IQ of 85 often do not have the same degree of agency as people with an IQ of 100.

    We saw this in the housing bubble, when $400,000 houses in the Inland Empire of SoCal were sold to semi-literate Mexicans on NINJA interest-only loans with a huge balloon payment after 3 to 5 years. When the inevitable happened they literally could not understand what they had signed, they just knew that they had bought a house and paid money and, well, what’s happening?

    A similar situation holds at the “payday loan” and “car title loan” level. The people most likely to borrow that way are the least likely to actually read and understand the agreement they are signing, or have a clue what 29.99% interest per annum really means. Some people don’t have the same level of “agency” as others.

    We also make allowances for people who can’t walk very well, Jack. Should your elderly relations be expected to have the same physical ability as a 20 year old man? No more handicapped parking spaces or ramps into stores? What’s the matter with those old ladies, don’t they have physical agency?

    In a nation where citizens have some degree of affection for each other, however strained it may be at times, those more intelligent citizens have an obligation to protect the less intelligent from grifters, scammers and cheats. That’s where many older laws in the US came from.

    In an international bazaar where buyers and sellers constantly jostle each other in an endless process of getting one over, there’s no obligation of anyone to anyone. That’s where we are heading, and it is the sort of place that tends to breed a lot of problems.

  325. @Mr. Rational

    Anti-semite = a person hated on behalf of Jews. Wokechausen by Proxy isn’t just limited to the fake left.

  326. @nebulafox

    Last emperor was not some scared little kid being bullied by a random Germanic general

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  327. Jack D says:
    @TomSchmidt

    Jordan has a large Circassian community. The Circassians are Muslims from the Caucasus who got pushed into the Ottoman Empire (which then included Jordan) when the Russians conquered their territory around the time of the American Civil War. Being from the Caucasus they are, uh, Caucasian.

    Levantine Arabs are themselves white too, of the Mediterranean type. Further south the Arabs had African slave girls and they would raise those children as their own sons, so they ended up with a big African component, but further north, not so much.

  328. nebulafox says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Basically, though I have no dog in that particular fight. I’m a social constructionist when it comes to religion: to me, what a religion “is” is what a given time and place makes it out to be. It is ultimately subordinate to the given culture, not the other way around.

    You could alternately turn around and point out that several Islamic empires-Ottoman, Mughal, Safavid-did just fine after the Middle Ages. (Notably, all three were not Arab.) It’s not a period I know deeply about, so I won’t claim this as authoritative, but until the late 1600s, the Turks posed a serious threat to all Europe. I can’t imagine that would have been true if they were as deeply behind technologically then as they’d eventually become with the Industrial Age. However, you could also point out that these were empires that happened to have Islam as a religion, in the same sense that European empires happened to have Christianity as a religion. They were not “Islamic states” in the sense that the caliphates were. The Ottomans would occasionally make some claims to be a successor caliphate for political reasons, but that was at best a secondary motive in a way it wasn’t for the old time Middle Ages states.

    Whatever the case, I think we can all agree that “the West” over the past several centuries has been pretty damned special. Throughout the 20th Century, even people who hated the West-including in the Islamic World-wanted to incorporate Western technology and statecraft, if not the culture. That’s deeply telling. The funny thing is, it is only self-loathing Westerners who deny this. Maybe that explains why we’re finally running into problems.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  329. nebulafox says:
    @Desiderius

    *Shrugs*. If an illiterate barbarian Frank appointed by a jumped-up prefect of the long irrelevant city of Rome could claim to actually be a successor to Augustus, well, that just shows how messed up the Dark Ages really were.

    Κάντε το Βυζάντιο Μεγάλο και πάλι. 🙂

    • LOL: Desiderius
  330. Jack D says:
    @Desiderius

    The Jubilee has not been observed since 600 BCE. It’s impossible to operate anything more modern than a tribal economy on Jubilee principles (though we do have bankruptcy laws). And anyway the Jubilee was only once in 49 or 50 years.

    I assume that when it was practiced, there were various ways to get around it, as is common in Jewish law. For example, Jews are forbidden to own food containing wheat (other than matzoh) during Passover. But rather than throw all that food out, Jews “sell” it to a non-Jewish person for the duration of the holiday and then when the holiday is over, they “buy” it back. It’s purely a paper transaction but it’s effective for purposes of complying with Jewish law. I’m sure there must have been similar loopholes regarding the Jubilee.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  331. Anon[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Istevefan

    The tenor of comments, particularly the invasion theory that seems to have gained prominence in recent times, is intriguing.

    Saudi Arabia is the source of 20th century Moslem religious radicalization: 15 out of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, yet we invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq. When a Saudi officer went on a killing spree at an American military base a few weeks ago, the usual social media commentariat was strangely silent, but when a Moslem lunatic, radicalized online by forces unknown, stabs people, there is massive amplification.

    People who would formerly have been considered members of the antiwar, paleo and nativist right seem to have adopted a crude Moslem invasion theory, rather than correctly attributing it to “invade the world, invite the world” that has defined US policy since the end of the Cold War.

    If Syria hadn’t been destabilized by American proxies. If the delicate balance of power that existed in Iraq hadn’t been upset by the 2003 invasion, resulting in the rise of Saudi-inspired ISIS, there would not have been a flood of refugees into Europe. The Qadaffi regime did a reasonable job keeping the burgeoning African hordes at bay, before it was wiped out.

    Israel has capitalized on this instability by replacing its annoying Hasbara that proved completely ineffectual on social media during its bombings of Gaza, with promoting a more militant and outward looking global Moslem hatred. Ex-Moslems seem to be the vanguard of this trend, usually focusing on alienating Moslem women who, thanks to the aforementioned Saudi revivalist indoctrination, mark themselves with hijabs, and can be turned into objects of pity and disgust. As long as they are occupied in defending themselves, this cohort, usually well educated, especially in the United States, are not going to pose a political threat to Israel. A second thread of Israeli propaganda strategy seems to be pushing the narrative that anti-semitism and criticism of the State of Israel are the same thing. After the New York stabbings, the cable networks went to Israel for reaction. Boris Johnson will be repaying that pound of flesh shortly with his anti-BDS law. A third thread seems to be hiring Hindoo troll hordes to harass Moslems online.

    The Gulf States’ role, particularly the UAE’s role in all this is the most intriguing. Kompromat or some form self-interest seems to be driving a great deal of their activities. The seemingly irrational and random turn against fellow Salafist state Qatar is intriguing: did Qatar reject a settlement with Israel at a time where Iran is perceived as a greater threat? Are the Gulf states working at detente with Israel, while seeking to destabilize it from within (probably too much to expect for the Arab temperament which holds Jews in a type of hateful awe)? Is their financial promotion of the European right, and invasion theories really just a proxy crackdown on Islamist dissidents as some have suggested? Or are they just suckers with more money than sense who are playing way out of their league?

    • Replies: @istevefan
  332. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    Not just the 1600s. The Barbary Pirates posed problems for young America in the 19th century. The Turks were inflicting losses on the British in WWI.

    Now Muslims were never shy about acquiring technology and even manpower from the West (especially stealing from conquered people but if these were not available they’d pay cash) – they felt no compelling need to invent their own stuff. This was not unique to 20th century West haters. This has been their modus operandi from day 1. They are more concerned about ends than means and so long as they can have that gun or bomb or whatever, they don’t care where it comes from. The fact that you as a conquered person may be smarter than they are but you are the ones working for them while they sit around and drink coffee shows that they are the superior ones.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Corvinus
  333. @Jack D

    It’s impossible to operate anything more modern than a tribal economy on Jubilee principles (though we do have bankruptcy laws). And anyway the Jubilee was only once in 49 or 50 years.

    Yes, Modernism sucks, that’s the point. The freaking calender isn’t a value system.

    The thing with Jubilee is the spirit of it, and bankruptcy done right (i.e. not exempting student loans of all things) is in line with that spirit, likewise taking care that one’s loans are not predatory. Systems which preclude one from the knowledge necessary to make that call are flawed in ways that contemporary (modern!) accounting fails to capture. Specifically they’re inhumane approaching inhuman.

  334. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    I think that was more Churchill-a brilliant but erratic man who needed more grounded advisors around him to separate the genius ideas from the mad ones-grossly underestimating just how tenacious the Turks would be on their home soil than anything else. Safe to say that the Ottoman Empire, along with the rest of the non-West save Japan, was finding itself reaping the consequences of being behind in the new, more globalized environment of 1900. Even Russia was struggling with the new conditions, and would ultimately fail to meet them enough to avoid military catastrophes and social collapse.

    >The fact that you as a conquered person may be smarter than they are but you are the ones working for them while they sit around and drink coffee shows that they are the superior ones.

    I’m sure the Greeks thought the same way about their rude Latin conquerors in classical antiquity. Plutarch often visibly-and impotently-fantasized about the good old days in his biographies. It is nothing new.

    It does get particularly galling when it is a people you have traditionally despised or viewed condescendingly getting the upper hand on you. That’s why Japanese ascendance in the late 1800s really, really psychologically messed with the Chinese in a way the Europeans didn’t. The Europeans might as well have been from another planet to the late Qing: what could you do about these strange aliens with the magic iron ships? But the Japanese were supposed to be a tributary state nestled deep within the accepted Confucian hierarchy of things. Although the Qing Dynasty had been on its last legs since the Taiping Rebellion, it was really that defeat in 1895 that finally discredited them beyond recognition.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  335. Although the Qing Dynasty had been on its last legs since the Taiping Rebellion, it was really that defeat in 1895 that finally discredited them beyond recognition.

    Empires go through humiliating defeats without collapsing all the time. A Ming emperor was captured by the Mongols and held for a year. The dynasty kept humming along, lasting 200 years past the incident:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Yingzong_of_Ming

    The real problem for the Qing dynasty on the eve of its collapse was that the de facto ruler of China, the Empress Dowager, was brilliant at court intrigues, but inept at governing the country. Her courtiers were fawning incompetents each of whom had his own designs on the throne. Just before she died, she poisoned the adult de jure emperor who might have held the empire together, thereby handing the throne to the feckless regents appointed to supervise the emperor’s toddler son (the main character featured in Bertolucci’s The Last Emperor). The result was a series of revolts and mutinies that the regime’s highest-ranking military commander deliberately ignored and used as a pretext to force the child emperor’s abdication and the end of the dynasty.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  336. @Almost Missouri

    Muslims seem more than happy to adopt whatever modern technology is available: smart phones, high explosive, aircraft, GPS, etc.

    “Modernity” is more than the sum of tools any peoples have at their disposal in the times they live.

    So sending millions of young men into foreign lands is defensive?

    Considering that this phenomenon is occurring mostly because of AngloZionist meddling, yes. That doesn’t make it “virtuous” or “good” necessarily, which you seem to think “defensive” means.

    Are Christians (or Hindus or Confucians or Jews) united? Also simultaneously weakest and strongest points in their cases too?

    You seem to believe that all religions are essentially the same thing and function within the exact same cultural/political contexts.

    Christians are hardly ever united even in the best of times. But it is especially fractured today as European Christianity (and possibly Christianity itself) is exhausted, wasting away. Not a good position to be in when Christendom is already being attacked from outside and within.

    Hindus are certainly politically united, but the political force of this unity is felt strongest within the borders of India. It doesn’t project itself externally. This unity certainly works great for them.

    Confucianism (and East Asian Buddhism) doesn’t work in the way you seem to think. Its structures of belief, loyalty, and religious fanaticism are quite different from those in Abrahamic religions.

    As for Jews, well, I suppose the fact that their outsize grip on cultural/political discourse, the financial system, and the media—to say nothing of the existence of a certain ethnostate that none of its neighbors want—don’t speak for themselves.

    With respect to North Africa and the Middle
    East, their peoples are in political disarray for various reasons: Ethnic differences, mutually unintelligible dialects and languages, intra/inter-ethnic historical grievances, competing readings of the Koran, foreign meddling, etc., etc. The only thing that unites them is Islam. What is unique about Islam is that it demands of its true believers to read its holy scriptures in their original Classical Arabic. The fact that its disparate adherents—otherwise split on account of countless factors—are encouraged to do this fosters a sense of deeper unity that can be roused at moments of great historical duress. As I said earlier: “If it is defeated in one area, it can be sure to resurge anew elsewhere. It does not require a well-organized society and government to thrive, nor does it even require ‘victory’. Its abilities to simply exist and project fear in its opponents are enough to sustain it.” They are weak because they can’t consolidate their efforts into meaningful political objectives, but also strong because it doesn’t require any meaningful political objectives other than the will to fight.

    What the West is facing from militarized Islam is guerrilla warfare not just on the battlefield, but also on the political/cultural front. The former is driven by the need to “win”; the latter is simply fueled by the need to fight, with no concern for “victory” or even death. This is why after half a century, the West has failed to eradicate radical Islam; and why the latter’s simultaneous disunity (political/cultural) and unity (religious) is both its weakest and strongest point.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  337. J.Ross says:
    @Desiderius

    It wasn’t about no one falling through the cracks, it was to avoid the kind of murder rampage riots Sulla was scarred by.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  338. @anonymous

    Okay, apologies if I misunderstood the problem. But if you are using an email address, I don’t think it does any good unless you pair it with a commenting handle. If you are using a handle, there must be a bug if it is not showing up here.

  339. @Jack D

    Certain Unfortunate Events put all anti-Semitism, including Belloc’s “polite” or “intellectual” form, in bad odor since 1945

    Contemporary jocular counter-Semitism smells pretty good.

  340. Bill says:
    @Anonymous

    Do Iranians really have the same average IQ as American blacks?

  341. nebulafox says:
    @Johann Ricke

    But the Ming continued to effectively govern and collect revenue from Beijing until the last decade or so of its own existence based on its own power, just as the Roman state managed to function after Adrianople or the Yarmouk. (Actually, a better comparison would be the defeat the Sassanids suffered at the hands of the White Huns in 484.) The Qing didn’t. The Qing existed after the Taiping and Nian and Dungan Rebellions based on the sufferance of new warlords like Zeng Guofan who just luckily happened to be loyal to the Manchus, not because of their own central power back in Beijing.

    Ito Hirobumi was right: the real problem was that it was being kept alive artificially beyond its due date.

    Had Guangxu lived, I suspect it would have been too little, too late. Maybe the dynasty would have petered along for another decade or two, but it would have cracked eventually with the additional financial and social pressures (Han nationalism: not for nothing did the revolutionaries toward the south around the turn of the century explicitly invoke the Taipings) that were being piled onto China as it haphazardly tried to modernize.

  342. @J.Ross

    By people who fell through the cracks, Einstein.

    • LOL: Autochthon
    • Replies: @J.Ross
  343. HA says:
    @Almost Missouri

    “Yes, you can probably find a Muslim somewhere who was descended from a Janissary, but it was something of an aberration, and it wasn’t part of what made Janissaries Janissaries.”

    Let me get this straight — you’re opposed to Wikipedia but counter with nothing more than an unsourced assertion? Is that some kind of a joke?

    Your previous comment said they were not allowed to marry. Period. It didn’t say “that later changed, but was an aberration”. Ditto for any of the qualifiers that might have rectified the other incorrect statements about not leaving any children and not being converted to Islam. So I will repeat: none of your initial statements were correct.

    There’s only one Wikipedia entry on Janissaries that I can see — i.e., not much ambiguity there, especially since you could have cut-and-pasted the part I quoted into the search engine too if it turned out there had been several). I mean, if you need more help to track down a direct link, you need more help than I can give you, and you’re not my target audience, and we can leave it at that. Otherwise, if you would have bothered to look at the page — as opposed to pretending you know more than what’s in it — you would have seen that the part about conversion to Islam comes from The New Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Cyril Glassé, Rowman & Littlefield, 2008, p.129. The first mention of Janissary children (the part about how in the late 16th century, a sultan gave in to the pressures of the Corps and permitted Janissary children to become members of the Corps), comes from Hubbard, Glenn and Tim Kane. (2013) (2013). Balance: The Economics of Great Powers From Ancient Rome to Modern America. Simon & Schuster. pp. 152–154. The part about how Janissary children were looked after comes from Goodwin, Jason (1998). Lords of the Horizons: A History of the Ottoman Empire. New York: H. Holt, 59,179–181. There’s also a passage about how Sultan Selim II gave Janissaries permission to marry in 1566 — i.e. almost a century before the devşirme system ended and almost three centuries before the Janissaries were disbanded, which comes from Balfour, Patrick; Kinross, Baron (1977). The Ottoman Centuries: The Rise and Fall of the Turkish Empire.

    I don’t have much of a problem with any of that. It seems to hang together and has no obvious consistency/sourcing gaps. It’s certainly not “unattributedly” written as you claimed, and all in all, is certainly more convincing than “some guy on iSteve” who can’t even be bothered to provide any and expects people to be stupid enough to swallow his versions whole.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  344. J.Ross says:
    @Desiderius

    By large groups abandoned to the wolves by their government. If it’s a small enough group all this goes out the window.

  345. @Corvinus

    “You don’t see much out of the Middle East, either…”

    The Middle East is home to 5% of the world’s population. Nonetheless, only 1·5% of scientific papers published every year originate from this region.

    They’re so out of touch your source confirms exactly what they say.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  346. Corvinus says:
    @Jack D

    “Now Muslims were never shy about acquiring technology and even manpower from the West (especially stealing from conquered people but if these were not available they’d pay cash) – they felt no compelling need to invent their own stuff.”

    LOL. First, you are totally wrong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

    Second, you do realize that this region saved Western Civilization, right? Read –> The House of Wisdom: How Arabic Science Saved Ancient Knowledge and Gave Us the Renaissance

    • Replies: @Jack D
  347. Jack D says:
    @Corvinus

    Did you read that list of “inventions” ? Most of them are trivial or laughable.

    “Treatment of wart”

    Minaret

    Oud

    Ghazal poetry

    Fritware pottery

    Etc.

    Much of “Arab” science was really conquered people science – Persians, Jews, Greeks, etc. like I said before.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  348. @Jack D

    Your boomer is showing. Out and out anti-Semitism is ubiquitous among under 30s. Not my cup of tea but I get a certain smug satisfaction knowing how butt hurt it’s gonna make you.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Achilles Wannabe
  349. Corvinus says:
    @Jack D

    “Did you read that list of “inventions” ? Most of them are trivial or laughable.”

    You mean SOME may be considered by YOU as trivial or laughable from that list. But I would not expect you to admit that you got exposed, considering these contributions were monumental for Europeans to take and build on.

    Astrolabe
    Chemical elements and equivalents
    Panemone windmill
    Alcohol distillation
    Algebra discipline
    Algorithm
    Control valve

    “Much of “Arab” science was really conquered people science – Persians, Jews, Greeks, etc. like I said before.”

    Please educate yourself rather than remain ignorant.

    https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

    • Replies: @Jack D
  350. Jack D says:
    @Corvinus

    So you admit they turned away from science?

  351. Jack D says:
    @Sam Haysom

    It’s a different style of anti-Semitism. On the Left it’s couched in anti-Zionism. Among blacks, it’s anti-whitism. Much of the anti-Semitism I see on unz is the old school “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” kind that went out with spats and rumble seats. Don’t tell me those are in style again too.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  352. Corvinus says:

    “So you admit they turned away from science?”

    Clearly you haven’t read the article for the proper context.

  353. Ironwrkr says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    I dunno. We went from standing start to nuke weapon in 2 years, working on a theory. Iran has been on this for over 30 years. Where’s the bomb?

  354. @Nicolás Palacios Navarro

    The fact that Muslims are not united is certainly their weakest point, but also their strongest.

    Views like those are odd to me. Either a trait strengthens something, on the whole, or it weakens it. It might be that the fact Muslims are not united (assuming it is true) is at the root of the strongest and the weakest aspects of the religion, but how it is both of them? Achilles’ heel wasn’t both his greatest strength and weakness. What you follow that assertion with seems to support the opinion that not being organized under a monolithic caliphate is a strength, not a weakness at all, in the present world. This is further supported by the view that the Western “empires”, so to say, which are united (at least in theory), namely the United States and the European Union, are decadent.

  355. Anonymous[352] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    The collapse of Russia and the failure of the British and French to capture Istanbul were directly related.

  356. Corvinus says:
    @gabriel alberton

    “They’re so out of touch your source confirms exactly what they say.”

    You didn’t include, nor apparently understand, the ENTIRE quotation and the context of the article. Try again.

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
  357. @Jonathan Mason

    Yeah, I know … that info on the invention’s origin in ancient Egypt was right there on the label, next to the exhibit in that Istanbul Museum of the History of Science and Technology in Islam.

    Guess the Turks were being inclusive on the acclaimed technical accomplishments, reaching out to their Arab Muslim brethren, a gesture celebrating diversity. (I did notice that all the ancient inventions by Copts were not part of the exhibition … kidding.)

    One could quibble that most of the inventions were actually developed before the rise of Islam, but that would be kind of meangirl.

  358. Neoconned says:
    @Autochthon

    I’ve never been to sub Saharan Africa but I have done the Mississippi Delta several times and I think its probably on par with say Honduras or Nepal or some such sxumhole…..not quite the Congo but not as good as say urban Mexico either….

  359. Neoconned says:
    @Mr. Anon

    My mother was raised near Mccomb Mississippi and Talladega, Alabama in the 60s and 70s….i wouldn’t call it the Congo or civil war Afghanistan but its 3rd world

    Go 30 minutes outaide Jackson and Mississippi goes 3rd world. I grew up there, seen it with my own eyes.

    I know of trailers with no power with 8 ppl living inside…and its not a drug den either. Some parts of the state literally have welfare and disability checks as the ONLY industry now that agriculture and the light manufacturing are gone….that and local level dope. Some of those counties literally have NO INDUSTRY. Maybe a gas station and a dollar store and maybe a salon or barber….

  360. @HA

    “Let me get this straight — you’re opposed to Wikipedia but counter with nothing more than an unsourced assertion? Is that some kind of a joke?”

    You want a source that says Wikipedia is unreliable? Okay. Here is Wikipedia saying Wikipedia is unreliable:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_reliable_source

    Enjoy.

    “Your previous comment said they were not allowed to marry. …
    … The Ottoman Centuries: The Rise and Fall of the Turkish Empire.”

    First of all, let me congratulate you on your effort. You have more energy than most posters here, including me.

    As already conceded, I—and I presume everyone else—are not asserting absolute truths. Anyone who possesses absolute truth probably has better things to do than comment here. Everyone is giving their view of the preponderance of facts, what is mostly true, what is good enough for blogging work on social sciences, y’know?

    And yes, I read the Wiki article too, which didn’t contradict anything I had already heard in earlier studies. The thing about citations in Wiki though, and I think it is true in this as well, is that they are usually secondary sources. There may be many or there may be few. But if you dig down into them, it often happens that however many secondary sources there are, they all derive from just one or two primary sources, which is what I think is happening here. The primary source in this case is a Sultan’s decree in the late 16th century allowing Janissaries to marry and bring their children into the Corps. For centuries prior to this, that was not allowed and the number of married Janissaries was zero. So the question is, is the Sultan now trying to turn the Janissaries into a hereditary family enterprise, or is he just trying to accommodate a few edge cases without upsetting the traditions and customs of an ancient institution?

    I do not have any Janissarial censuses that state the number of Janissaries employed by the Sultan, the number of Janissarial marriages and the number of children begotten. Maybe with your energy and diligence you can find such things and enlighten me. But I think they don’t actually exist, so all we can do is infer the facts we seek from the facts we have. To your point, toward the end of the Janissary era, the institution did become something of a hereditary sinecure, which may have involved a bunch of marriages and nepotism. But by that time the Janissaries weren’t really Janissaries—a fanatically loyal and effective fighting force—anymore, instead they were just a self-interested clique of sandbaggers of dubious loyalty. So after increasingly neglecting them, the Sultan finally had them killed. So I think all we can say is that after the “classic” Janissary era, the Corps gradually became decadent, inward looking, and self interested, until it became ineffective and then liquidated. From zero marriages in classic era, there may well have been a gradually increasing wedge until liquidation. Did marriage ever become the predominant state? Maybe, but as mentioned, if so, it was so late in the decadent era that it hardly matters to the subject of Janissaries. IMHO. If you got another take, I’d be glad to hear it.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @HA
  361. @Nicolás Palacios Navarro

    “Considering that this phenomenon is occurring mostly because of AngloZionist meddling, yes.”

    Okay, to take the guy I mentioned in my previous comment, how did Australia meddle in Syria in the 1990s such that he had to cross 14,000 km (skipping all the Muslim countries in between) and settle in Sydney and then in Melbourne?

    Spoiler alert: since time immemorial people have been on the move to gain advantage wherever it is to be had, “meddling” or no meddling. I would prefer our governments not meddling abroad as well, but whether they do or not has next to nothing to do with mass migration. It has everything to do with our credulous, corrupt and anti-democratic border management though. China and to a lesser extent Russia manage to meddle abroad pretty well without sucking hordes of foreigners in to their homelands. Anyone who tells you it can’t be done is trying to sell you something unsavory. You seem like a clever guy. You needn’t fall for this swindle.

    “Hindus are certainly politically united, but the political force of this unity is felt strongest within the borders of India.”

    Really? Brahmins and Dalits? They have separate marriages, neighborhoods, temples, gods, and even languages and blood. In fact, it would be hard to think of a worse example of unity than Hindu India.

    “Confucianism (and East Asian Buddhism) doesn’t work in the way you seem to think. Its structures of belief, loyalty, and religious fanaticism are quite different from those in Abrahamic religions.”

    Thanks for the condescension. Are they “united” or not?

    “With respect to North Africa and the Middle East, their peoples are in political disarray for various reasons: Ethnic differences, mutually unintelligible dialects and languages, intra/inter-ethnic historical grievances, competing readings of the Koran, foreign meddling, etc., etc.”

    Unlike where … ?

    (Normally I wouldn’t bother replying to this comment, but I’m worried you’re diluting the value of Ron’s Gold Star.)

  362. Jack D says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Here is Wikipedia saying Wikipedia is unreliable:

    But if Wikipedia is unreliable, how can you trust the Wikipedia article that says that it is unreliable? Maybe it is really reliable and the article is false?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    , @Lagertha
  363. @Corvinus

    The entire quotation points out that rapid proportional growth of scientific papers from the Middle East is expected, as there was almost nothing to begin with, and that most of them are worse than articles from wealthy countries, although they’re hopeful that, with time, that will no longer be the case, because researchers will get more experience with time (while, presumably, the researchers from first world countries will stop getting better, or at least will do so more slowly so that the Mideasters will catch up, as they do not explain the reason behind that optimism in the abstract). It also says Middle Eastern researchers are more eager to get promoted rather than publishing articles relevant to their own countries, and when they aquire experience abroad and come back to their own nations, they are still not interested in working towards issues that affect their homelands.

    That’s the part you did not quote in your post. None of this contradicts that we don’t see much from the Middle East in the way of scientific production, as measured by research papers, these days.

    So what, precisely, did I not understand? Could you please explain how the context makes it so that the quote from Cochran is not backed up by the article you linked?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  364. @Jack D

    🙂

    This Cretan guy told me to watch out for Cretans: they’re all liars, he said.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  365. Lagertha says:
    @Steve Sailer

    It was all about inheritance – siblings counted, cousins, not.

  366. Lagertha says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Wikipedia is a socialist piece of garbage. Because: the powers-that-be- do not accept truth when truth is evident. Only The Narrative positive info is accepted. Wikipedia is a joke; a total biased POS.

    Hahaaa, my inner, aged Lagertha, is coming thru! I do feel battle weary, but I missed all your sorry asses 😀

  367. istevefan says:
    @Anon

    People who would formerly have been considered members of the antiwar, paleo and nativist right seem to have adopted a crude Moslem invasion theory, rather than correctly attributing it to “invade the world, invite the world” that has defined US policy since the end of the Cold War.

    You are covering things paleos already know. Patrick Buchanan ran his 1992 presidential campaign on leaving NATO and downsizing the military post Cold War. He also made immigration restriction a top priority. He was drummed out of the party.

    Ron Paul was against military intervention as well in 2008 and 2012. He too was rudely treated.

    Paleos have been on this for a long time. You can probably go back longer to the American Firsters prior to WW2. Seems like the Paleo types also understood the relationship between government growth and a big military and such. And of course they cut down on immigration with the 1924 immigration act.

    One thing I keep hearing from people though is that our intervention in other countries leads to immigration to our countries. Why? When the UK was Great Britain and the sun never set on its soil, was it inundated with diverse immigrants? What about Turkey? Shouldn’t half of Southeastern Europe be living in Turkey because they were the former colonial master? Of course the Turks ethnically cleansed a lot of non-Turks so I guess that might be why we don’t see it. But there is no reason that these people need to end up in our lands. That they are doing so speaks more to our leaders than to any ironclad rule of nature.

  368. Lagertha says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Simo and Ragnar, Thorne, and von Hertzen were integral.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  369. HA says:
    @Almost Missouri

    “Here is Wikipedia saying Wikipedia is unreliable…”

    The point is, it’s STILL less unreliable than someone who has no citations or links to back up what he says. Like you, for example.

    “I do not have any Janissarial censuses that state the number of Janissaries employed by the Sultan, the number of Janissarial marriages and the number of children begotten. “

    That’s pretty evident at this point. And yet, that didn’t stop you from claiming that number was zero.

    There’s unreliable and then there’s really, really, REALLY unreliable. Can you guess which one you are? Ergo, given the alternative you’re offering, I’ll stick with Wikipedia, at least in those cases (such as this one) where it aligns with what I had previously understood.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  370. @HA

    When I asked if you had “another take”, I was hoping for something better than Asperger’s.

    “that didn’t stop you from claiming that number was zero.”

    Yep, just me and the Sultan claiming the the number was zero.

  371. @TomSchmidt

    Indeed, I knew a Jordanian girl who was White with blue eyes. Gorgeous.

  372. Corvinus says:
    @gabriel alberton

    “The entire quotation points out that rapid proportional growth of scientific papers from the Middle East is expected, as there was almost nothing to begin with…”

    in light of several geo-political and social factors.

    “It also says Middle Eastern researchers are more eager to get promoted rather than publishing articles relevant to their own countries…”

    Specific quotation from the source I provided that lends credibility to this statement?

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
  373. @Jack D

    Depends Chapo Trap House the biggest alt-left podcast absolutely traffics in jewish bank elite type conspiracy theorizing. And pointing out that NYC landlords all share a religion is pretty much standard for online tankies.

    Its extremely retarded on their part- leftism would be a dead letter in the US if not for Jewish support, but if you spend you whole life talking about disproportionate representation eventual the fact that 1% of the population has the stranglehold they have on so many important industries is hard to ignore I guess.

  374. @Corvinus

    in light of several geo-political and social factors.

    Evidently. But this does not change the outcome. Therefore, as Cochran claimed, the researchers of the article you linked to agree there hasn’t been much out of the Middle East lately (in their experience). Causes certainly exist and some possible ones (in their opinion) are given there, but his (Cochran’s) point stands.

    Note that in no moment I agreed that the only measure of the worthiness, or however you call it, of a place is how many scientific papers it churns out, regardless of their quality. But once again, reportedly relatively few come from that sad land.

    Specific quotation from the source I provided that lends credibility to this statement?

    Researchers in low-income countries hoping to have their work published in prestigious journals (as an aid to promotion), might be tempted to work on topics of interest to these journals, instead of subjects that are important to their own communities.

    But worry not: as the authors clearly wrote, they might be tempted. For all we know, they all bravely resist those temptations, like Jesus against Satan in the desert.

  375. @Jack D

    “Maybe he can combine it with a review of Mein Kampf and Henry Ford’s The International Jew?”

    Why not? Those are very interesting books. I have a feeling you are more interested in keeping the smell on “antisemitism” than you are worried about Steve’s reputation. As for the irrelevance of 1922, I think we are living in the American Weimar

  376. @Sam Haysom

    Out and out anti-Semitism is ubiquitous among under 30s.

    Is it really? Will you expand on that a little? I don’t have much contact with the young

  377. @gabriel alberton

    It depends on how one views these things. If the objective is “victory” (i.e. meaningful political and economic change on behalf of a people under the rule of a national polity), then Arab disunity is most certainly its weakest point. However, if nothing further is sought other than to permanently agitate against imperial powers as a guerrilla opposition party, then this disunity is what allows these sentiments to persist and thrive well over a half century. Nasser, the PLO, the Ba’athists, Saddam Hussein, Qaddafi, Bin Laden, have all been vanquished, yet what improvement has this brought about for Americans (or indeed Arabs themselves)? The moment any figurehead or organization is destroyed, another springs up elsewhere to take its place.

    Consider ISIS, which best illustrates this phenomenon. Although their “caliphate” in the Levant was brought down, adherents of their philosophy have sprung up all over urban Europe, and new aspirants for an ISIS nation have proved formidable in Libya and across the Sahel. ISIS itself is the regrouping of elements from Al Qaeda, born when the latter group came under attack from the US.

    • Thanks: gabriel alberton
  378. Lagertha says:
    @Jack D

    and, cousins were killed by the barrel fold. Plantagets were the first.

  379. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha

    you have no idea because you are not Finnish.

  380. donut says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    “The restive Berber minority bases its grievances around their non-Arab, non-Turkish ethnicity and official recognition of their language, which was granted by Morocco in 2011 and Algeria in 2016. Those seem rooted in the Berber cultural identity, separate from any specific, pre-conquest historical identity.”
    Wait a minute I’m missing something here . Can the Berber cultural identity be separate from any “pre-conquest historical identity.” ? You say ” The restive… Berber minority bases its grievances around their non-Arab, non-Turkish ethnicity and official recognition of their language” “Those seem rooted in the Berber cultural identity, separate from any specific, pre-conquest historical identity.” . But how can a group preserve it’s language through millennia of conquerors w/o preserving some semblance of their “historical identity” ? They may have learned Punic and Latin and much later Arabic but they have preserved their language through all that time . Can you preserve a language w/o a culture attached ? I would guess that fundamental to preserving a culture is preserving the language that that particular culture evolved in . Well maybe the Berbers are just stubborn chronic grumblers and that’s the culture they have preserved . Shit if that’s the case I must have some Berber DNA my own self .

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PastClassics
How America was neoconned into World War IV
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
Our Reigning Political Puppets, Dancing to Invisible Strings