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From the BBC:
In this provocative and personal documentary, 18 year-old Bradford-born Hiba explores the controversial but legal custom of first-cousin marriage. …
In Britain, where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years, first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest. However, in one community – British Pakistanis – 55 per cent of young people marry their first cousin. And in Bradford, where Hiba comes from, that figure is an astonishing 70 per cent.
Although she’s only 18, Hiba is already talking to her family about marriage. For them first-cousin marriage is the norm and some members of the family are especially keen for her to continue the tradition.
Her uncle Younis is in favour – four out of five of his own children are in cousin marriages. Her dad, Maroof, is on the fence and her mum, Nuzhat, is very much against it, but both have said they will support Hiba in whatever decision she makes.
At the moment Hiba is single and because all her first cousins have married each other, her only hope of a family match would be with a second or third cousin from Pakistan.
Visas!
By the way, the Dutch government banned, I believe, any foreigner getting a visa for marrying a Danish resident under age 24 to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud.
So, should Hiba marry a cousin?
You can watch it there.
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Responsible answer: No.
Real world answer: The NHS has got your back. Knock yourself out, or I guess, up. 😉
(And since, she's obviously doing this to "be on TV", that may well be the plan. If she really wanted to be her Pakistani 2nd cousin's wife she could just do it. If she wants to do a little attention whoring and advertise her charms to some white guys, than this all makes sense.)
Geez, what are these people doing in Britain?
A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
She should be happy to get any brown man, I read these days they’re all chasing the white women.
Gotta keep it in the family. It takes many generations of inbreeding to make those unibrows so lush and shiny.
1/ ‘… to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud…’
Not necessarily fraud. In Hiba’s family’s case that’s how they actually marry.
2/ Look at the bright side. First cousin marriage can lead to the overall lowering of the IQ’s of British Pakistanis. Isn’t that a good thing?
Per capita, Pakistanis probably account for about 10 times more serious birth defects than the native English and Scottish populations.
Of course, as is always the case with immigrant communities, the vast majority of Pakistanis come from only a small handful of local/caste communities back in Pakistan, the "Land of the Pure."
And yes, SJWs will hate you for knowing this, but Muslims (and even Christians) on the Indian sub-continent do practice stringent caste discrimination.
This is an awesome de-mystification of equalism. Not all groups can be equal even in theory because some groups practice cousin marriage. Jared Taylor should have mentioned this on his ABC interview with the Pakistani host.
Not if they remain in Britain. They will be a welfare drain from cradle to grave, and if their numbers are large enough, will turn many parts of that nation into areas uninhabitable by real Britons.
Maybe it is a good thing. Four Lions wouldn’t have been a comedy if the lions hadn’t been idiots.
Dutch.
Anyone have a way to watch from outside the UK?
Actually I think he meant the Danish government.
I have one female first cousin. We were close as kids - spent a lot of weekends swimming in my grandparents' pool. On many a lazy Sunday afternoon, my mother took us to the el-cheapo second-run discount movie theater.
(Mom, ever the penny-pincher, refused to pay the inflated prices at the concession stand. But she always smuggled salty snacks and warm cans of grocery-store-brand cola in her purse.)
Sadly, as I grew older, I came to understand that she was certifiably wacko. (My cousin, that is. We'll talk about my mother some other time.)
One morning, while under the influence of ... something, my cousin mistakenly interpreted her beloved cat's apparent disappearance as incontrovertible evidence that he had met a bad end. Unable to cope with this seeming tragedy, she proceeded to slash her wrists.
She literally died at the hospital, but they were able to bring her back.
After a succession of bad relationships (and suicide attempts/threats), she married a vibrant individual. They now have two kids.
Now, before you say anything, let me assure you that this man is a genuine credit to his race - nice guy, hard worker. (His IQ aspires to the triple digits, but no one's perfect.)
After her second miscarriage (and her resulting hysteria), he walked out on her. She threatened to slash her wrists. He came back. Shortly thereafter, she became pregnant with their first child.
Her father was born in the Deep South, and most of her relatives on that side still live there. Her paternal grandfather was not pleased that she married a black man, and he was even less pleased that she hid it from him for two years. But he didn't cut her out of his will, so he couldn't have been that unhappy.
This inbreeding is why British Pakistanis are 13 times more likely to have children with birth defects than native Britons. Those defects include low IQ and mental retardation. That explains a lot.
The business on Britain is business, capital wants labor, if it can’t find it in the domestic population, they’ll find slaves or import people from far off lands.
A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s.
Nonsense. In the early 50s the entire 'visible minority' population of the UK was only about 25,000 in a nation of 50 million.
They were brought over in the late 50s and 60s to work in the foundries of the Midlands (now mostly gone) and the textile mills of the North and Leicester (ditto). Cheap labour which turned out to be not so cheap after all.Replies: @Rob McX
Refusing to let non-relatives marry into your family is fine, even if you end up with a brood that would make the Munsters look like a triumph of eugenics. What’s really evil is trying to keep alien races out of your country.
Meanwhile, in California…
“Effort to bar child marriage in California runs into opposition”, Jill Tucker, San Francisco Chronicle, July 6, 2017:
It was always pretty rare. Marriage is declining anyway so teen age marriage is also declining.Every tried to get a court order about anything? It's not that easy.And as I wrote before, what's wrong with getting married in the middle teens, especially if the spouse has been investigated throughly and deemed fit.Replies: @bomag
Get yourself a VPN
Some poor writing in that piece. E.g. “In Britain, where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years, first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest.” If cousin marriage is such a taboo, why has it been legal for centuries? I happen to know that it’s because the Protestant reformers in the 16th century wanted to return marriage laws to their biblical roots, and the Bible happens to allow first cousin marriage, while the Catholic Church had long forbidden it. I suppose somehow this reform had little effect on the popular taboo against such marriages (whether due to lingering Catholic influence or something else), but it deserved more of an explanation by the author here.
But they do. Although Jesus and his first few hundred followers were Jews, everything Jesus preached was a rejection of the Judiasm of the time.
The next step in the Islamination of Britian is lowering the age of consent for boys and girls to 6. They already have defacto sex slavery of young White girls. Why not make sex slavery of White girls legal ?Replies: @Rosamond Vincy, @jtgw
"Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.Replies: @Faraday's Bobcat, @AM, @RonaldB, @jtgw
You’re right. Thanks.
Western answer: ride the carousel until 39 instead. Pakistanis may be more dysgenic, but not by a great margin I imagine.
Real world answer: The NHS has got your back. Knock yourself out, or I guess, up. ;)Replies: @jtgw, @415 reasons, @AnotherDad
That’s exactly it. Simply let people bear the full costs of their decisions and we’ll see how well this tradition holds up. I reckon that, if it’s held up this well in ramshackle Pakistan, it will probably survive cuts in NHS funding.
She has to go back. Then no one would give a fuck.
Exactly what the British elites want them to be doing.
I’m amazed that Pakistanis have made it as far as they have civilizationally with so many centuries of first cousin marriage. One does occasionally meet a few very bright Pakistanis. And there are enough bright ones to master the engineering to build an A bomb. Still, why take the risk?
Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam
Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India
In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels
Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trainsReplies: @Karl, @Karl, @Ali Choudhury
My back of the envelope, cousins--otherwise unrelated--will share a chromosome on a quarter of the pairs. Their kids will thus get a duplicate from every four of those or 1/16 of the time. So on average would have 23/16 of a duplicated chromosome. But when the family is continually interbreeding--so you have shared chromosomes on both sides and shared between the sides--the chances go way up.
But in a normal situation of Malthusian pressure, Muhammed and his deleteriously mutated genes are being rapidly washed out. In lean times there's only food for four kids, but the family has eight. Muhammed gets sick and dies. (Or more harshly the family doesn't feed their loser kids/babies or kills them.) The other kids--remember the family normally also carries the pre-mutated chromosome copy--roll on. If the family really gets stuck in a genetic bottleneck with a bunch of bad genes it will tend to die out, to be replaced by other families with better genes.
I think the even bigger negatives of this sort of tribalism are the longer term ones.
--> You are more isolated from positive mutations and selection in other tribes/families. If there was a positive mutation that made people smarter or more conscientious, and it's in your own family/tribe--great. But if it's off somewhere else, it takes a long long time to get into your family's gene pool. As a tribal isolate you don't benefit from the selection going on around you.
--> You don't build trust with other families and hence build trust throughout your community and scaling up, nation.
Fixing these two things--with the church attacking tribalism and cousin marriage--helped the West grow continually smarter, more conscientious, more cooperative people with a larger "trust boundary" for position interactions, and helped the West leap ahead. It's the great sociological achievement of the West. The Japanese managed to do it to through some different cultural route. The Chinese managed to get the shared selection pressure--the constant downward mobility that Ron Unz outlined--but didn't develop the shared family/higher trust aspect of the West. Tribal societies in contrast are backward. Dumber people who seem to lack the capability to put together decently functioning national institutions.
Only a few people even consider doing this
You guys are just looking for something to complain about
Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites
Dang inbred Yankees.Replies: @ScarletNumber
Isn't a canard a tiny duck?
We’re fecked. Just fecked.
You guys are just looking for something to complain about
Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whitesReplies: @Sgt. Joe Friday, @Mr. Anon, @fish, @Chris Mallory, @The True and Original David, @Art Deco
Um, Mr.Duck are you aware that nearly all 120 million Mexicans are descended from at most a few hundred Spanish conquistadors? I believe that is a text book example of “inbreeding.”
Where’s the fraud if they mostly genuinely happen to marry their cousins, as seems to be the case? It would be fraud if the cousin marriages were breaking up, suspiciously often, after the immigration status was granted to the foreign cousin partner, but this BBC story seems to indicate otherwise.
And it seems to be a crackdown on child, or, at any rate, early adulthood marriage, not cousin marriages.
On Topic: From the Telegraph
1 in 5 child deaths in London borough caused by parents being related
Hiba? Spelled H1Ba, no doubt.
You guys are just looking for something to complain about
Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whitesReplies: @Sgt. Joe Friday, @Mr. Anon, @fish, @Chris Mallory, @The True and Original David, @Art Deco
“Only a few people even consider doing this”
Including, obviously, your ancestors going back several generations.
Queen Victoria married her first cousin. Charles Darwin too.
(Overall the quality of the ruling houses of Europe hasn't exactly been anything to write home to mom about.)
Yes. For those who follow these things, note how often some heroic surgeons in the UK or elsewhere in the West separate gruesomely conjoined twins from Pakistan or Bangladesh.
These guys would advise against it.
The Jewish part of the bible allows first cousin marriage. The Jewish and Christian parts of the bible are very different, in fact opposites. It’s not rational that Christians believe in both.
But they do. Although Jesus and his first few hundred followers were Jews, everything Jesus preached was a rejection of the Judiasm of the time.
The next step in the Islamination of Britian is lowering the age of consent for boys and girls to 6. They already have defacto sex slavery of young White girls. Why not make sex slavery of White girls legal ?
The tendency to consanguinity diminished as the world became more populated and more centered in cities and villages instead of nomadic tribes. It became easier to arrange marriages with people who weren't pagans but weren't so closely related that genetic characteristics became unhealthily exaggerated.
"Effort to bar child marriage in California runs into opposition", Jill Tucker, San Francisco Chronicle, July 6, 2017:Replies: @Alden, @reiner Tor, @Gary in Gramercy
What’s wrong with getting married at 15,16,or 17? I’m actually familiar with that California law. The important thing is the consent of the judge. The juvenile court judges who consent to these marriages are very, very protective of this minors who want to get married. It’s usually a girl and a man 10 years older. There is an investigation of both prospective spouses and the parents. The prospective spouse must have a decent, reasonably secure job and able to support the minor spouse. Generally the spouse must have had the job for 2 years. References are required but not just accepted. Juvenile court investigators investigate the references and everything. It’s almost like applying to adopt a child.
It was always pretty rare. Marriage is declining anyway so teen age marriage is also declining.
Every tried to get a court order about anything? It’s not that easy.
And as I wrote before, what’s wrong with getting married in the middle teens, especially if the spouse has been investigated throughly and deemed fit.
Re: child marriage in CA; I'm wondering about the ethnicity/SES of those using the courts this way. It sounds like a breeding program for Gypsies.
Pakistan got its nukes from China and its missiles from North Korea
Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam
Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India
In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels
Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains
i'll mention your theory to the Sindh Rangers
i'd rather my neighborhood be policed by the Sindh Rangers than by California police departments
Point-Counterpoint: Pakistanis are de facto colonizing the west. That cousin-marriage has SOME advantages
==I have seen== the Pak Railways engine switching yard. So I don't believe that those numbers you quote are correct. It varies over time. What China wants, has a lot of influence over freight movements in Pakistan. Not in any devious way, just good old "he who has the gold, makes the rules"
6:1 freight:passenger sounds about right for an economy..... What's the ratio in YOUR country?Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @rec1man
According to some libtards, they’re here because the white population is horribly inbred.
The odd one here or there doesn’t matter. It’s when it’s carried out repeatedly over multiple generations.
Speaking as a Brit, I ask myself this very question every time I watch the news.
It is for this reason – combined with out-of-date so-called ‘human rights’ legislation – that continual mass immigration from Pakistan to the UK has proven ‘impossible’ to control.
From a purely Hamiltonian ‘ethnic genetic interest’ perspective, it all makes sense – regardless of the ‘cost’ of possible birth defects.
The ‘opportunity cost’ of living in the UK outweighs the negativity of the increased likelihood of genetically induced illness amongst the progeny of such unions.
Such is the hard rationalism of the ‘modern synthesis’.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10958728/Australian-judge-says-incest-may-no-longer-be-a-taboo.html
BTW, due to increased non-traditional births (non-monogamy, non-marital, extra-marital, sperm donor based etc.,) real incidences of consanguineous marriages nowadays is probably quite high. DNA tests are showing surprisingly close relations between many couples.
"Effort to bar child marriage in California runs into opposition", Jill Tucker, San Francisco Chronicle, July 6, 2017:Replies: @Alden, @reiner Tor, @Gary in Gramercy
You can’t make this up…
All of your commenters experience Islam second hand . But my experience is first hand , like Hank Snow I have been every where . I , believe it or not am a Haji . I went on the pilgrimage to Mecca in 1974 . From following my posts you must all know that I am a simple man , no deep thoughts or profound insights here . I came as close to death as I ever have at Mina in a tent . I for sure heard the Angel of Death pacing impatiently around the tent where I lay . But I survived and then heard the sermon at Arafat . Then being weak still from my bout with death we went to Muzdalifah and I subsequently gathered stones to cast at the Devil at Ramy al-Jamarat . Still weakened from my debilitating illness some guys from the Bahraini defense force took me by my arms and carried me through that ordeal . And I cursed Shaitan and cast my stones at him . Later when the time came to repeat Haajar’s desperate run back and forth in search of the well of Zam Zam , 7 rounds , my Bahraini friends once again carried me . Without a doubt I know that God or no God blessings rained down on them . So what ? I have only the deepest gratitude to my friends from that time . But I don’t want no Muzzies in my home . When I was there I was a Muzzie and the people of Bahrain took me in and welcomed me as a believer . But that , while it was a very important part of my journey is past and eventually I rejected Islam . I don’t want NO Muzzies here in my homeland . I , like others here perhaps have stumbled hither and yon in search of the the answer to the most important question a man can ask .
Btw a group of ants have taken up residence in my kitchen . I can’t bring my self to call the exterminator . If there are only a few I actually say “good morning” to them , if on the other hand there are too many I raise my voice and say unkind things . I suppose that that is because I suspect that in this vast “random” and indifferent universe the life of a man and the life of an ant might weigh equally in the scales of “justice” .
John Burke authentic member of the average IQ club and Top 40 fan .
Isn’t first-cousin marriage incest?
Also, I think Hiba should marry Uncle Younis. I have a niece that I wouldn’t mind getting to know in a biblical sense.
JFC. I hope you're prohibited by court order from contact with her.
When Cousins Marry shows the genetic deformities in children, parents and a community in denial, and forced marriages.
https://youtu.be/9aAD0yJ3SdQReplies: @theo the kraut, @theo the kraut, @Amanuensis
As if taken from a Nazi propaganda movie on eugenics, but it’s real. Quote: “More than half of British Pakistanis marry their first cousins.”
Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam
Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India
In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels
Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trainsReplies: @Karl, @Karl, @Ali Choudhury
35 rec1man > Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam
i’ll mention your theory to the Sindh Rangers
i’d rather my neighborhood be policed by the Sindh Rangers than by California police departments
Point-Counterpoint: Pakistanis are de facto colonizing the west. That cousin-marriage has SOME advantages
Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam
Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India
In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels
Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trainsReplies: @Karl, @Karl, @Ali Choudhury
25 rec1man > 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains
==I have seen== the Pak Railways engine switching yard. So I don’t believe that those numbers you quote are correct. It varies over time. What China wants, has a lot of influence over freight movements in Pakistan. Not in any devious way, just good old “he who has the gold, makes the rules”
6:1 freight:passenger sounds about right for an economy….. What’s the ratio in YOUR country?
* Sent from my iPhone as far from Pakistan as is possible. *
Pakistan Railways currently has 190 working DE locomotives. The average life of entire fleet (465 DE locomotives) is 25 years
whereas, India has 5000 locomotives
http://24coaches.com/indian-railways-facts-and-figures/
William and Mary, too, and Edgar Allan Poe, and the Hapsburgs. People of Quality have always been reluctant to share their genes outside the family. And Cleopatra – wasn’t she the product of seven generations of brother-sister marriage? She was enough of a babe for wars to be fought over.
Interesting that both sides know the deleterious effects of inbreeding and of sterilizing your high achieving women, but not much is done about it.
Ibn Khaldun thinks Hiba should marry a first cousin to benefit Bradford’s Asabiyyah in preparation of her inland tribe’s takeover of the UK. We don’t hear much about Ibn Khaldun on iSteve, anymore, that’s too bad.
https://youtu.be/9aAD0yJ3SdQReplies: @theo the kraut, @theo the kraut, @Amanuensis
Libtards love retards they can care for, they want our brains. As they aren’t done yet dumbing us down, they’re importing themselves hopefuls. Channelling Mrs Jellyby*–jelly beans for all!
The Beeb is having to answer these “vibrant” questions more and more.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39316253 “BBC Asian Network apologises for tweet about blasphemy”
So there's really no question for Britons about the right punishment for blasphemy; their parliament has already decided it is seven years' incarceration if
"a person ... uses ... insulting words ... or displays any written material which is ... insulting, if he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or, having regard to all the circumstances, racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby."
There you are: The punishment for blasphemy in Britain is up to seven years' in the gaol. If you murder a bicyclist in cold blood, of course, the punishment is four years' in gaol. The punishment must fit the crime, you see; even the Mikado knew as much.
70% of British Pakistanis in the UK come from an area called Mirpur which was a rural and quite backward area with high levels of illiteracy. They were imported to work as cheap labour in provincial textile mills. Cousin marriage was very prevalent there, as it is in most rural areas, and the practice was imported with them in other areas they settled.
It is common because inheritance and property disputes can be very protracted and it is a way of ensuring wealth remains in the family. Also if you are marrying off your daughter to the son of your brother or sister you have some assurance she will be well taken care of. The risk of marrying daughters off to bad apples is high given the low trust society that Pakistan is. In India, I believe cousin marriage is banned which means fewer genetic defects but more incidences of abuse and murder of brides by their mothers-in-law compared to Pakistan.
It is less common in urban areas since there are more potential mates to choose from and it is the elite in the cities and the armed forces that runs Pakistan.The severely retarded and those crippled with birth defects don’t last very long. Birth defects show up as a much more aberrant phenomenon in the West where mortality rates are low.
A couple of observations.
Property in rural areas usually means land. Ownership or tenancy of long heritable leases is guarded better than the gold in Fort Knox. Convenient adjacent parcels of land will often underlie the arrangement of marriage if there's the chance of consolidating the family holding.
This is especially true in areas of minifundia, units progressively unable to produce sufficient for the sustenance of the landholders.
Around 1980 I heard a story about two branches of my own family in Ireland which matched exactly this scenario.Replies: @Cortes
==I have seen== the Pak Railways engine switching yard. So I don't believe that those numbers you quote are correct. It varies over time. What China wants, has a lot of influence over freight movements in Pakistan. Not in any devious way, just good old "he who has the gold, makes the rules"
6:1 freight:passenger sounds about right for an economy..... What's the ratio in YOUR country?Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @rec1man
Whaaaaaat? It’s the ABSOLUTE numbers that rec1man is using to illustrate the backwardness of the place, not the ratio. Anyway, how would you know 6:1 sounds right? It’s probably more than 50-100:1 in America, but it’s because passenger service here anywhere but the Washington, FS – Boston, Mass. corridor is a joke cause it’s run by the Feral Government. People fly a lot.
Your first reply may have been a good argument (I have no idea, and don’t even care), but this was no argument, merely BS.
* Sent from my iPhone as far from Pakistan as is possible. *
Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam
Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India
In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels
Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trainsReplies: @Karl, @Karl, @Ali Choudhury
70% of British Pakistanis are from Mirpur, they originate from Kashmir and speak Mirpuri not Punjabi. They don’t count as Punjabi. The Punjabis are doing OK, particularly the ones who were from middle class families before they emigrated. The former Karachi dwellers tend to do best, they are usually from well-educated families.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mirpuris
Cousin marriage is a problem for non cousins.
.ROTHERHAM ABUSE SCANDAL: Horrific reality of 'industrial scale' child grooming revealed
Express.co.uk has chosen to refer to the abusers as Kashmiri or Mirpuri after hearing how many mainstream British Pakistanis are disgusted by the actions of a few men from those communities.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/697583/Rotherham-abuse-scandal-child-grooming-gangs-industrial-scale-victims-CSE
The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church’s prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers. The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government, e. g. by forced integration of schools and obliteration of racial and cultural homogeneity, destruction of family structure, marginalization of private charity, and supplanting of collective bargaining with state paternalism. Complete power requires destruction of all competition. It has been so, ever since the Pharaohs conflated themselves with deity and state-parentage. God the Father is properly defined as the highest power of which the mind can conceive, which for most people is the government, and we all know the one true God is a jealous God.
“Progressives,” so-called, think the state’s provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh – he knew better.
Priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties. There's no 3 year old that needs attention when he should be calling on the sick. Likewise they are far more in a position to physically defend a church and it's parishioners.
Prohibitions on marriage in the Catholic church flow from natural law. It stands to reason that if brother-sister is incest and against God's plan, 1st cousins are just 1 parent removed from incest. Ideally the further can get from incest, the closer you are to God's plan for marriage.Replies: @Desiderius
I beg to differ. Your description is accurate for the left-wing, welfare-state, all-encompassing government of the EU, Sweden, or Barak Obama. But it is the opposite vision from the original US Constitution, which attempted to create a government that provided defense, a commercial infrastructure, and an effective mediation between sovereign state governments.
The mechanisms you describe: the destruction of competing social structure, the demolishing of the sense of self and sense of identity, are hallmarks of a tyranny. The EU, the governments of Britain, France and Germany are obviously tyrannies in the making...as is the US government, moving welfare housing forcibly into established, stable neighborhoods. But, the governments of Eastern European countries, having a more homogeneous population and a sense of nationhood inherited from their oppression under Communism, actually allow the freedoms of association you identify as the antithesis of all government.
The Ancient Egyptian royals were quite tolerant of consanguineous and even incestuous marriage, so I'm not sure how well your theory holds up.Replies: @Peripatetic commenter, @Art Deco
Pia Kjærsgaard is always attacked by the media in Denmark as an evil witch, but her actions have done more to better her nation than any Western politician of the last 30 years. It’s incredible, go to Copenhagen then go to any other capital in Western Europe. Hell, take the bridge to Malmo…
The success of the Danish Peoples Party should give us all hope and is, of course, a direct rebuke of anything being ‘inevitable’.
Didn’t you read the article? Why, they are “British Pakistanis.” You know, just like Brasilian Russians, dry moisture, and freezing heat.
Yes, in-marriage is only a viable mating strategy when child mortality is high. Give such a culture access to modern medicine and the number of crippled and defective people in the population will become unsustainable.
BTW, due to increased non-traditional births (non-monogamy, non-marital, extra-marital, sperm donor based etc.,) real incidences of consanguineous marriages nowadays is probably quite high. DNA tests are showing surprisingly close relations between many couples.Replies: @Pericles
Australian judges seem to be perhaps the worst, most pozzed in the world. Even taking California into account.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39316253 "BBC Asian Network apologises for tweet about blasphemy"Replies: @Autochthon, @Eagle Eye
What a howler! The piece claims “Britain abolished its blasphemy laws in 2008,” but the Public Order Act was passed in 1986 and the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act of 1994 extended its punishments for blasphemy. The Racial & Religious Hatred Act was only just passed in 2006, and the Criminal Justice & Immigration Act was passed in 2008 (perhaps therein lies the error; the writer meant to type “Britain most recently strengthened its blasphemy laws in 2008…”).
So there’s really no question for Britons about the right punishment for blasphemy; their parliament has already decided it is seven years’ incarceration if
“a person … uses … insulting words … or displays any written material which is … insulting, if he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or, having regard to all the circumstances, racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby.”
There you are: The punishment for blasphemy in Britain is up to seven years’ in the gaol. If you murder a bicyclist in cold blood, of course, the punishment is four years’ in gaol. The punishment must fit the crime, you see; even the Mikado knew as much.
They might be marrying their cousins, but its the local teen girls that they’re screwing (see Rotheram).
Also, I think Hiba should marry Uncle Younis. I have a niece that I wouldn't mind getting to know in a biblical sense.Replies: @AndrewR
“I have a niece that I wouldn’t mind getting to know in a biblical sense.”
JFC. I hope you’re prohibited by court order from contact with her.
In the late 1950s and early 1960s, the Government of Pakistan planned the Mangla Dam, which was to be built in the Mirpur area. They asked several thousand locals to leave the land. At that time, the British needed man-power mainly for their textile factories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mirpuris
Cousin marriage is a problem for non cousins.
.ROTHERHAM ABUSE SCANDAL: Horrific reality of ‘industrial scale’ child grooming revealed
Express.co.uk has chosen to refer to the abusers as Kashmiri or Mirpuri after hearing how many mainstream British Pakistanis are disgusted by the actions of a few men from those communities.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/697583/Rotherham-abuse-scandal-child-grooming-gangs-industrial-scale-victims-CSE
I guess there must be a huge problem with young Dutch girls marrying Danes, but I think I have a better solution to the problem.
See here: https://www.bustle.com/articles/35527-the-dutch-wife-sex-doll-is-so-realistic-who-needs-a-girlfriend
You’re assuming it’s a willing marriage. Often it’s the parents telling the daughter that she is going to marry cousin Achmed and bring him back with her. If she doesn’t like it, well uppity women in Islam tend to end up beaten or dead. The police aren’t going to do anything since they are being culturally sensitive.
The problem is not so much cousin marriage per se, but lax immigration laws which allow you to import a groom or a bride. Persons aspiring to settle in Britain, should be required to pass an English proficiency test and a background check and told to wait in a queue. Persons from problem countries like Pakistan should be told to apply as nuclear families (mother, father, children) or to apply as middle-aged married couples and that applications from single adults (esp lone men) are not accepted.
Stanley Kurtz (a lapsed anthropologist, btw) had an essay a while back on the social implications of parallel cousin marriage (v. cross-cousin marriage). The burden of his argument was that public life in any country where it’s regularly practiced will be problematic because the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.
That's the case, and the problem, everywhere on earth.
But my other point on this topic would be: What about diversity?! How can cousin marriage possibly contribute to diversity? Horrors.
Real world answer: The NHS has got your back. Knock yourself out, or I guess, up. ;)Replies: @jtgw, @415 reasons, @AnotherDad
Literally. Scientists are analyzing inbred Pakistanis as a vast natural experiment called the human knockout project.
https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v544/n7649/full/nature22034.html
Such is the hard rationalism of the 'modern synthesis'.Replies: @415 reasons
Yea except there are extremely high rates of consanguinity among Pakistanis in Pakistan. So this is not a unique response to cruel U.K. immigration policies it is just part of their culture.
You guys are just looking for something to complain about
Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whitesReplies: @Sgt. Joe Friday, @Mr. Anon, @fish, @Chris Mallory, @The True and Original David, @Art Deco
"Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.Replies: @Faraday's Bobcat, @AM, @RonaldB, @jtgw
You, sir, have hit the nail on the head.
That’s the root of terrorism, crazy and stupid inbreds.
Stanley Kurtz (a lapsed anthropologist, btw) had an essay a while back on the social implications of parallel cousin marriage (v. cross-cousin marriage). The burden of his argument was that public life in any country where it's regularly practiced will be problematic because the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.Replies: @Ali Choudhury, @StillCARealist, @AM
To become a UK citizen now, you need to have been resident for 5 years, pass a test to show you are familiar with history, culture and values of the UK and you need to demonstrate English language proficiency. To bring a non EU spouse over on a spousal visa you need to be earning over 18600 GBP. Bringing in elderly dependent parents to settle permanently is close is impossible. Awareness of birth defects due to consanguinity is much higher than it used to be. I would predict the frequency of cousin marriage will decline as the first generation who originated from the old country die out.
I am a white Briton who is the product of an affair between first cousins. I am a very healthy 72 and I can see from DNA tests that although I am very inbred I don’t seem to have any “bad genes”. I’ve looked at my genealogy and I haven’t found a single ancestor since about 1790 who died younger than 70. Many of them have reached 90. Perhaps I am just lucky but I think cousin marriage is getting an unfair press. Instead of just thinking about low IQ Pakistanis think about Darwin’s brilliant offspring.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270760/How-Charles-Darwins-family-paid-price-inbreeding.html
I wonder what tribe has seized the American state?
==I have seen== the Pak Railways engine switching yard. So I don't believe that those numbers you quote are correct. It varies over time. What China wants, has a lot of influence over freight movements in Pakistan. Not in any devious way, just good old "he who has the gold, makes the rules"
6:1 freight:passenger sounds about right for an economy..... What's the ratio in YOUR country?Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @rec1man
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Railways#Locomotives
Pakistan Railways currently has 190 working DE locomotives. The average life of entire fleet (465 DE locomotives) is 25 years
whereas, India has 5000 locomotives
http://24coaches.com/indian-railways-facts-and-figures/
Stanley Kurtz (a lapsed anthropologist, btw) had an essay a while back on the social implications of parallel cousin marriage (v. cross-cousin marriage). The burden of his argument was that public life in any country where it's regularly practiced will be problematic because the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.Replies: @Ali Choudhury, @StillCARealist, @AM
“the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.”
That’s the case, and the problem, everywhere on earth.
But my other point on this topic would be: What about diversity?! How can cousin marriage possibly contribute to diversity? Horrors.
Cousin marriage was a big thing with the Habsburgs, as you can see from that famous jaw in their portraits. You know things are pretty bad when you’ve got only four great-grandparents instead of eight, as was the case with Philip IV of Spain.
The big thing was the insistence in the House of Hapsburg (and other royal families) that 'unequal marriages' were morganatic. I think this sort of rule came to be prevalent in the early modern period. Prior to 1806, there were a great many minor German royals from which to choose. After that, your prospects were few.
“Cousins shouldn’t marry, even second cousins. It weakens the strain. It isn’t like
horses. You can breed a mare to a brother or a sire to a daughter
and get good results if you know your blood strains, but in people
it just doesn’t work. You get good lines, perhaps, but no
stamina. You–”
“Now, Ma’m, I’m taking issue with you on that! Can you name me
better people than the Wilkes? And they’ve been intermarrying
since Brian Boru was a boy.”
“And high time they stopped it, for it’s beginning to show. Oh,
not Ashley so much, for he’s a good-looking devil, though even he–
But look at those two washed-out-looking Wilkes girls, poor
things! Nice girls, of course, but washed out. And look at
little Miss Melanie. Thin as a rail and delicate enough for the
wind to blow away and no spirit at all. Not a notion of her own.
‘No, Ma’m!’ ‘Yes, Ma’m!’ That’s all she has to say. You see what
I mean? That family needs new blood, fine vigorous blood like my
red heads or your Scarlett. Now, don’t misunderstand me. The
Wilkes are fine folks in their way, and you know I’m fond of them
all, but be frank! They are overbred and inbred too, aren’t they?
They’ll do fine on a dry track, a fast track, but mark my words, I
don’t believe the Wilkes can run on a mud track. I believe the
stamina has been bred out of them, and when the emergency arises I
don’t believe they can run against odds. Dry-weather stock. Give
me a big horse who can run in any weather! And their intermarrying
has made them different from other folks around here. Always
fiddling with the piano or sticking their heads in a book. I do
believe Ashley would rather read than hunt! Yes, I honestly believe
that, Mr. O’Hara! And just look at the bones on them. Too slender.
They need dams and sires with strength–”
Margaret Mitchell, “Gone With the Wind”
Yes!
The dumber they become the better off the rest of us will be.
But they do. Although Jesus and his first few hundred followers were Jews, everything Jesus preached was a rejection of the Judiasm of the time.
The next step in the Islamination of Britian is lowering the age of consent for boys and girls to 6. They already have defacto sex slavery of young White girls. Why not make sex slavery of White girls legal ?Replies: @Rosamond Vincy, @jtgw
Marrying first cousins was a step up from the common pagan practice of marrying siblings or half-siblings (which Abraham may have followed, depending on your translation), but still avoided marrying outsiders (“the daughters of the land”) who might spread pagan customs (and dissipate tribal wealth). At the times of “Tobit” and “Ruth,” cousins and members of the same tribe still had the inside track.
The tendency to consanguinity diminished as the world became more populated and more centered in cities and villages instead of nomadic tribes. It became easier to arrange marriages with people who weren’t pagans but weren’t so closely related that genetic characteristics became unhealthily exaggerated.
Hiba is attractive enough. I don’t think she should marry a cousin. I think she should enter the pr0n industry. Can’t we all see from that photo what kind of girl she is? She doesn’t want a husband, she wants to be independant from mom and dad and be famous.
Stanley Kurtz (a lapsed anthropologist, btw) had an essay a while back on the social implications of parallel cousin marriage (v. cross-cousin marriage). The burden of his argument was that public life in any country where it's regularly practiced will be problematic because the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.Replies: @Ali Choudhury, @StillCARealist, @AM
Yes, cousin marriage is a problem. Inbreeding creates cumulative, long term genetic problems. You can get away with it for one or even 2 generations. There is plenty of history around though that suggests even cousin marriage is playing with fire.
It should also be a de-mystification of the low quality of what passes for “journalism” and “documentaries” among forced-government-tax-supported broadcasters like Ma Beeb.
A responsible “documentary” would look at this not from this Beeb-certified soap opera angle but from a genetic and population one, in the past, present, and going forward.
Of course the soap opera angle is what keeps the gal viewership on board. Beeb has always pandered to that. When you’re forcing a population to pay a tax to support propagandization against itself, keeping the ladies on board with emotionalism is important. So is teaching them to identify more with immivaders’ families than their own.
I.e., the consequences of their OWN children not being able to find appropriate marriage partners is never touched upon.
-------------------------------
Don't you know that everything must cater to the histrionic single women's voting block?
Ironically enough, there was an article the other day about the shortage of eligible men for such women in the telegraph.
-------------------------
from
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/04/shortage-eligible-men-has-left-women-taking-desperate-steps/
dearth of marriagable men has left an “oversupply” of educated women taking desperate steps to preserve their fertility, experts say
+++++++++++++++++++++
sometimes I wonder whether we are smart enough to continue as a species.Replies: @Olorin
"Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.Replies: @Faraday's Bobcat, @AM, @RonaldB, @jtgw
That’s “a” conventional explanation. There are others that are less about imagining the Catholic church as some giant power structure and more like…a church.
Priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties. There’s no 3 year old that needs attention when he should be calling on the sick. Likewise they are far more in a position to physically defend a church and it’s parishioners.
Prohibitions on marriage in the Catholic church flow from natural law. It stands to reason that if brother-sister is incest and against God’s plan, 1st cousins are just 1 parent removed from incest. Ideally the further can get from incest, the closer you are to God’s plan for marriage.
- Bacon's EssaysReplies: @YetAnotherAnon
I think she should marry her cousin, because Genetic Decline!
Meanwhile, Slavery is rife in London:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-slavery-modern-britain-idUSL1660050320070321
My first thought as well. Maybe her cousin is Daca.
At least this girl is being asked. Most would simply be told.
OT but iStevey: Kittenfishing’, ‘mooning’… and 15 other millennial dating terms you’ve probably never heard of.
Pakistanis – not surprisingly – account for a VASTLY disproportionate number of serious birth defects requiring LIFELONG medical attention, all provided “free” by the NHS, Britains socialist “National Health Service.”
Per capita, Pakistanis probably account for about 10 times more serious birth defects than the native English and Scottish populations.
Of course, as is always the case with immigrant communities, the vast majority of Pakistanis come from only a small handful of local/caste communities back in Pakistan, the “Land of the Pure.”
And yes, SJWs will hate you for knowing this, but Muslims (and even Christians) on the Indian sub-continent do practice stringent caste discrimination.
It was always pretty rare. Marriage is declining anyway so teen age marriage is also declining.Every tried to get a court order about anything? It's not that easy.And as I wrote before, what's wrong with getting married in the middle teens, especially if the spouse has been investigated throughly and deemed fit.Replies: @bomag
Unless you are an immigrant/refugee. I’m amazed at their legal power. I can’t get past the receptionist at the law firms around here.
Re: child marriage in CA; I’m wondering about the ethnicity/SES of those using the courts this way. It sounds like a breeding program for Gypsies.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39316253 "BBC Asian Network apologises for tweet about blasphemy"Replies: @Autochthon, @Eagle Eye
Of course, all this is parts of a project, decades in the making, to atomize and destroy the working classes and lower middle class, the better to institute a murderous dictatorship by self-appointed, incestuous “intellectuals.”
In fact, many of this sect seem to take their chief joy in destroying what is left of traditional institutions – the family, the law, the Church of England, and of course the people as a whole.
Read up on the bright, thoroughly creepy Bloomsbury Group who in their flippant hatred were very much precursors of the Borg now controlling the BBC, churches, politics, local governments including “social workers,” the central bureaucracy, Eurocracy, …
Should I Marry My Cousin?
Yes, because it will reduce the chance of your cousin being a social pest. Your cousin’s plan b is importing a child bride whose family he will extort for dowry gifts. While he waits to be married he will abuse English girls. So please marry your cousin ASAP. Do it for England.
"Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.Replies: @Faraday's Bobcat, @AM, @RonaldB, @jtgw
“The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government”
I beg to differ. Your description is accurate for the left-wing, welfare-state, all-encompassing government of the EU, Sweden, or Barak Obama. But it is the opposite vision from the original US Constitution, which attempted to create a government that provided defense, a commercial infrastructure, and an effective mediation between sovereign state governments.
The mechanisms you describe: the destruction of competing social structure, the demolishing of the sense of self and sense of identity, are hallmarks of a tyranny. The EU, the governments of Britain, France and Germany are obviously tyrannies in the making…as is the US government, moving welfare housing forcibly into established, stable neighborhoods. But, the governments of Eastern European countries, having a more homogeneous population and a sense of nationhood inherited from their oppression under Communism, actually allow the freedoms of association you identify as the antithesis of all government.
But they do. Although Jesus and his first few hundred followers were Jews, everything Jesus preached was a rejection of the Judiasm of the time.
The next step in the Islamination of Britian is lowering the age of consent for boys and girls to 6. They already have defacto sex slavery of young White girls. Why not make sex slavery of White girls legal ?Replies: @Rosamond Vincy, @jtgw
Except the New Testament says nothing about cousin marriage; that was an extra-biblical development in the Christian tradition. I honestly don’t know where the Church got the idea that cousin marriage was bad, but I think hbdchick among others has done a lot of research into this, so maybe check out her blog.
"Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.Replies: @Faraday's Bobcat, @AM, @RonaldB, @jtgw
Wikipedia hints that the ecclesiastical prohibition on cousin marriage was inherited from Roman law, which makes sense to me. The Church later extended the degrees of consanguinity and that might have something to do with trying to weaken family loyalties, but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.
The Ancient Egyptian royals were quite tolerant of consanguineous and even incestuous marriage, so I’m not sure how well your theory holds up.
There is no Christian moral teaching which antedates the 'institutionalization of the Church' bar those from the mouth of Christ.Replies: @jtgw
A.Q. Khan, the Pakistani who is called the father-of-the-bomb , is a Muhajir, an ethnicity that is composed of Muslims who emmigrated to Pakistan from present day India. A.Q. Khan stole the technology for centrifuges from the European consortium URENCO. Muhajirs are responsible for making Karachi the economic hub of Pakistan and advancing the Pakistani economy. The national language of Pakistan (Urdu), was introduced by this group, and has its roots in Central India.
The Ancient Egyptian royals were quite tolerant of consanguineous and even incestuous marriage, so I'm not sure how well your theory holds up.Replies: @Peripatetic commenter, @Art Deco
And, as we all know, Wikipedia is unbiased and accurate in everything.
Cousin marriage is Halal (permitted, recommended) in Islam. So Muslims marrying their 1st cousin have religion telling them it is good practice.
An excellent comment. Thank you.
A couple of observations.
Property in rural areas usually means land. Ownership or tenancy of long heritable leases is guarded better than the gold in Fort Knox. Convenient adjacent parcels of land will often underlie the arrangement of marriage if there’s the chance of consolidating the family holding.
This is especially true in areas of minifundia, units progressively unable to produce sufficient for the sustenance of the landholders.
Around 1980 I heard a story about two branches of my own family in Ireland which matched exactly this scenario.
Apologies.
A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
“A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s.”
Nonsense. In the early 50s the entire ‘visible minority’ population of the UK was only about 25,000 in a nation of 50 million.
They were brought over in the late 50s and 60s to work in the foundries of the Midlands (now mostly gone) and the textile mills of the North and Leicester (ditto). Cheap labour which turned out to be not so cheap after all.
The Ancient Egyptian royals were quite tolerant of consanguineous and even incestuous marriage, so I'm not sure how well your theory holds up.Replies: @Peripatetic commenter, @Art Deco
, but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.
There is no Christian moral teaching which antedates the ‘institutionalization of the Church’ bar those from the mouth of Christ.
Cousin marriage was a big thing with the Habsburgs,
The big thing was the insistence in the House of Hapsburg (and other royal families) that ‘unequal marriages’ were morganatic. I think this sort of rule came to be prevalent in the early modern period. Prior to 1806, there were a great many minor German royals from which to choose. After that, your prospects were few.
Halal means permitted in Islam. Within halal, if something is mustahab, then it is recommended.
I saw that, but I thought maybe Steve was talking about some weird scheme where Muslims wed in Denmark, then settle in Holland.
I have one female first cousin. We were close as kids – spent a lot of weekends swimming in my grandparents’ pool. On many a lazy Sunday afternoon, my mother took us to the el-cheapo second-run discount movie theater.
(Mom, ever the penny-pincher, refused to pay the inflated prices at the concession stand. But she always smuggled salty snacks and warm cans of grocery-store-brand cola in her purse.)
Sadly, as I grew older, I came to understand that she was certifiably wacko. (My cousin, that is. We’ll talk about my mother some other time.)
One morning, while under the influence of … something, my cousin mistakenly interpreted her beloved cat’s apparent disappearance as incontrovertible evidence that he had met a bad end. Unable to cope with this seeming tragedy, she proceeded to slash her wrists.
She literally died at the hospital, but they were able to bring her back.
After a succession of bad relationships (and suicide attempts/threats), she married a vibrant individual. They now have two kids.
Now, before you say anything, let me assure you that this man is a genuine credit to his race – nice guy, hard worker. (His IQ aspires to the triple digits, but no one’s perfect.)
After her second miscarriage (and her resulting hysteria), he walked out on her. She threatened to slash her wrists. He came back. Shortly thereafter, she became pregnant with their first child.
Her father was born in the Deep South, and most of her relatives on that side still live there. Her paternal grandfather was not pleased that she married a black man, and he was even less pleased that she hid it from him for two years. But he didn’t cut her out of his will, so he couldn’t have been that unhappy.
A couple of observations.
Property in rural areas usually means land. Ownership or tenancy of long heritable leases is guarded better than the gold in Fort Knox. Convenient adjacent parcels of land will often underlie the arrangement of marriage if there's the chance of consolidating the family holding.
This is especially true in areas of minifundia, units progressively unable to produce sufficient for the sustenance of the landholders.
Around 1980 I heard a story about two branches of my own family in Ireland which matched exactly this scenario.Replies: @Cortes
Ought to be “are guarded.”
Apologies.
Let them marry whomever they want, so long as they don’t do it in my country.
Marriage aside… anybody here ever do anything… unusual… with their cousins?
You guys are just looking for something to complain about
Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whitesReplies: @Sgt. Joe Friday, @Mr. Anon, @fish, @Chris Mallory, @The True and Original David, @Art Deco
You do realize that first cousin marriage is illegal in Kentucky, West Virginia, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Mississippi and legal in New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Rhode Island?
Dang inbred Yankees.
"Effort to bar child marriage in California runs into opposition", Jill Tucker, San Francisco Chronicle, July 6, 2017:Replies: @Alden, @reiner Tor, @Gary in Gramercy
I didn’t read the entire story, but given the wholesale legalization of same-sex marriage in this country, I have a hunch that NAMBLA is involved in this somehow. (How some rich pederast gets his “boyfriend’s” parents to consent to the “marriage” is, of course, no one’s business but the parties’ respective tax advisors…)
horses. You can breed a mare to a brother or a sire to a daughter
and get good results if you know your blood strains, but in people
it just doesn't work. You get good lines, perhaps, but no
stamina. You--"
"Now, Ma'm, I'm taking issue with you on that! Can you name me
better people than the Wilkes? And they've been intermarrying
since Brian Boru was a boy."
"And high time they stopped it, for it's beginning to show. Oh,
not Ashley so much, for he's a good-looking devil, though even he--
But look at those two washed-out-looking Wilkes girls, poor
things! Nice girls, of course, but washed out. And look at
little Miss Melanie. Thin as a rail and delicate enough for the
wind to blow away and no spirit at all. Not a notion of her own.
'No, Ma'm!' 'Yes, Ma'm!' That's all she has to say. You see what
I mean? That family needs new blood, fine vigorous blood like my
red heads or your Scarlett. Now, don't misunderstand me. The
Wilkes are fine folks in their way, and you know I'm fond of them
all, but be frank! They are overbred and inbred too, aren't they?
They'll do fine on a dry track, a fast track, but mark my words, I
don't believe the Wilkes can run on a mud track. I believe the
stamina has been bred out of them, and when the emergency arises I
don't believe they can run against odds. Dry-weather stock. Give
me a big horse who can run in any weather! And their intermarrying
has made them different from other folks around here. Always
fiddling with the piano or sticking their heads in a book. I do
believe Ashley would rather read than hunt! Yes, I honestly believe
that, Mr. O'Hara! And just look at the bones on them. Too slender.
They need dams and sires with strength--"
Margaret Mitchell, "Gone With the Wind"Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer
Yes, “race” as in lineage and “race” as in horse racing have been interrelated subjects in the English speaking mind since perhaps the 1500s. Shakespeare several times uses “race” to refer to both.
horses. You can breed a mare to a brother or a sire to a daughter
and get good results if you know your blood strains, but in people
it just doesn't work. You get good lines, perhaps, but no
stamina. You--"
"Now, Ma'm, I'm taking issue with you on that! Can you name me
better people than the Wilkes? And they've been intermarrying
since Brian Boru was a boy."
"And high time they stopped it, for it's beginning to show. Oh,
not Ashley so much, for he's a good-looking devil, though even he--
But look at those two washed-out-looking Wilkes girls, poor
things! Nice girls, of course, but washed out. And look at
little Miss Melanie. Thin as a rail and delicate enough for the
wind to blow away and no spirit at all. Not a notion of her own.
'No, Ma'm!' 'Yes, Ma'm!' That's all she has to say. You see what
I mean? That family needs new blood, fine vigorous blood like my
red heads or your Scarlett. Now, don't misunderstand me. The
Wilkes are fine folks in their way, and you know I'm fond of them
all, but be frank! They are overbred and inbred too, aren't they?
They'll do fine on a dry track, a fast track, but mark my words, I
don't believe the Wilkes can run on a mud track. I believe the
stamina has been bred out of them, and when the emergency arises I
don't believe they can run against odds. Dry-weather stock. Give
me a big horse who can run in any weather! And their intermarrying
has made them different from other folks around here. Always
fiddling with the piano or sticking their heads in a book. I do
believe Ashley would rather read than hunt! Yes, I honestly believe
that, Mr. O'Hara! And just look at the bones on them. Too slender.
They need dams and sires with strength--"
Margaret Mitchell, "Gone With the Wind"Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer
Yes, “race” as in lineage and “race” as in horse racing have been interrelated subjects in the English speaking mind since perhaps the 1500s. Shakespeare several times uses “race” to refer to both. You breed racehorses, so race means both a test of speed and breeding.
When a belovèd hand is laid in ours,
When, jaded with the rush and glare
Of the interminable hours,
Our eyes can in another's eyes read clear,
When our world-deafen'd ear
Is by the tones of a loved voice caress'd—
A bolt is shot back somewhere in our breast,
And a lost pulse of feeling stirs again.
The eye sinks inward, and the heart lies plain,
And what we mean, we say, and what we would, we know.
A man becomes aware of his life's flow,
And hears its winding murmur; and he sees
The meadows where it glides, the sun, the breeze.
And there arrives a lull in the hot race
Wherein he doth for ever chase
That flying and elusive shadow, rest.
An air of coolness plays upon his face,
And an unwonted calm pervades his breast.
And then he thinks he knows
The hills where his life rose,
And the sea where it goes. "
from Arnold, The Buried Life
Nonsense. In the early 50s the entire 'visible minority' population of the UK was only about 25,000 in a nation of 50 million.
They were brought over in the late 50s and 60s to work in the foundries of the Midlands (now mostly gone) and the textile mills of the North and Leicester (ditto). Cheap labour which turned out to be not so cheap after all.Replies: @Rob McX
Nothing in history will turn out to be so devastatingly costly as “cheap labour”.
Actually they are homographs, words that look and sound the same, but have different meanings.
The Old Norse word ‘ras’ meant running water, as in mill race, head race, tail race, terms used in the construction of channels to drive water wheels, and later applied to running, and racing horses, whereas the later word comes from French and is probably associated with similar words in Italian and Spanish that mean race as in a group of people with similar characteristics.
Shakespeare was a great punster, though many of his puns are missed by modern readers because words have changed their forms, sounds, and meanings.
“Only—but this is rare—
When a belovèd hand is laid in ours,
When, jaded with the rush and glare
Of the interminable hours,
Our eyes can in another’s eyes read clear,
When our world-deafen’d ear
Is by the tones of a loved voice caress’d—
A bolt is shot back somewhere in our breast,
And a lost pulse of feeling stirs again.
The eye sinks inward, and the heart lies plain,
And what we mean, we say, and what we would, we know.
A man becomes aware of his life’s flow,
And hears its winding murmur; and he sees
The meadows where it glides, the sun, the breeze.
And there arrives a lull in the hot race
Wherein he doth for ever chase
That flying and elusive shadow, rest.
An air of coolness plays upon his face,
And an unwonted calm pervades his breast.
And then he thinks he knows
The hills where his life rose,
And the sea where it goes. ”
from Arnold, The Buried Life
https://youtu.be/9aAD0yJ3SdQReplies: @theo the kraut, @theo the kraut, @Amanuensis
I lasted about 15 minutes, then I couldn’t take any more.
Go with the first thing. Sure, out of 10 children Darwin had, 3 died young. Another 3 could never have children. But 3 of them got fellowships in The Royal Society, which I’m sure had nothing to do with dad being Charles Darwin.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270760/How-Charles-Darwins-family-paid-price-inbreeding.html
Of course the soap opera angle is what keeps the gal viewership on board. Beeb has always pandered to that. When you’re forcing a population to pay a tax to support propagandization against itself, keeping the ladies on board with emotionalism is important. So is teaching them to identify more with immivaders’ families than their own.
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Don’t you know that everything must cater to the histrionic single women’s voting block?
Ironically enough, there was an article the other day about the shortage of eligible men for such women in the telegraph.
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from
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/04/shortage-eligible-men-has-left-women-taking-desperate-steps/
dearth of marriagable men has left an “oversupply” of educated women taking desperate steps to preserve their fertility, experts say
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sometimes I wonder whether we are smart enough to continue as a species.
Priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties. There's no 3 year old that needs attention when he should be calling on the sick. Likewise they are far more in a position to physically defend a church and it's parishioners.
Prohibitions on marriage in the Catholic church flow from natural law. It stands to reason that if brother-sister is incest and against God's plan, 1st cousins are just 1 parent removed from incest. Ideally the further can get from incest, the closer you are to God's plan for marriage.Replies: @Desiderius
“HE that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune; for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief. Certainly the best works, and of greatest merit for the public, have proceeded from the unmarried or childless men; which both in affection and means have married and endowed the public.”
– Bacon’s Essays
Yup, the hand of the editor is apparent. “where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years” is dropped in to take the sting out. It could have used a “despite” or “although.” But making the relationship of ideas clear evidently wasn’t important to the editor.
You guys are just looking for something to complain about
Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whitesReplies: @Sgt. Joe Friday, @Mr. Anon, @fish, @Chris Mallory, @The True and Original David, @Art Deco
“Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites”
Isn’t a canard a tiny duck?
Real world answer: The NHS has got your back. Knock yourself out, or I guess, up. ;)Replies: @jtgw, @415 reasons, @AnotherDad
If she has a half a brain, she’ll sink her hooks into some quality white guy, who can giver her a good crossbreeding and rescue her from her Mirpuri ghetto.
(And since, she’s obviously doing this to “be on TV”, that may well be the plan. If she really wanted to be her Pakistani 2nd cousin’s wife she could just do it. If she wants to do a little attention whoring and advertise her charms to some white guys, than this all makes sense.)
Nikolai Sennels is a Danish psychologist who has done extensive research into a little-known problem in the Muslim world: the disastrous results of Muslim inbreeding brought about by the marriage of first cousins. This practice, which has been prohibited in the Judeo-Christian tradition since the days of Moses, was sanctioned by Muhammad and has been going on now for 50 generations (1,400 years) in the Muslim world.
This practice of inbreeding will never go away in the Muslim world, since Muhammad is the ultimate example and authority on all matters, including marriage.
The massive inbreeding in Muslim culture may well have done virtually irreversible damage to the Muslim gene pool, including extensive damage to its intelligence, sanity, and health. According to Sennels, close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred. In Pakistan, the numbers approach 70%. Even in England, more than half of Pakistani immigrants are married to their first cousins, and in Denmark the number of inbred Pakistani immigrants is around 40%.
The numbers are equally devastating in other important Muslim countries: 67% in Saudi Arabia, 64% in Jordan, and Kuwait, 63% in Sudan, 60% in Iraq, and 54% in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.
According to the BBC, this Pakistani, Muslim-inspired inbreeding is thought to explain the probability that a British Pakistani family is more than 13 times as likely to have children with recessive genetic disorders. While Pakistanis are responsible for three percent of the births in the UK, they account for 33% of children with genetic birth defects.
The risks of what are called autosomal recessive disorders such as cystic fibrosis, spinal muscular atrophy is 18 times higher, and the risk of death due to malformations is 10 times higher. Other negative consequences of inbreeding include a 100 percent increase in the risk of stillbirths and a 50% increase in the possibility that a child will die during labor.
Lowered intellectual capacity is another devastating consequence of Muslim marriage patterns. According to Sennels, research shows that children of consanguineous marriages lose 10-16 points off their IQ and that social abilities develop much slower in inbred babies. The risk of having an IQ lower than 70, the official demarcation for being classified as “retarded,” increases by an astonishing 400 percent among children of cousin marriages. (Similar effects were seen in the Pharaonic dynasties in ancient Egypt and in the British royal family, where inbreeding was the norm for a significant period of time.)
I agree with you that the problems are overstated. However, you have a few generations in a row of proximate cousin marriage and you get some, uh, interesting characters. My grandmother used to say her mother-in-law was a cautionary example.
You guys are just looking for something to complain about
Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whitesReplies: @Sgt. Joe Friday, @Mr. Anon, @fish, @Chris Mallory, @The True and Original David, @Art Deco
I think it was generally an upland practice, not something favored by white Southerners in general. You married the people you knew, who, as it happened, were your relatives. The last instance in my family was around 1888. You’ll notice where it was prohibited by law – places where it was perceived of as a problem.
Cousin marriage itself less grinds down your genome, than mutational effects are brought to the phenotypic fore quickly and exposed to selection. I.e. when a deleterious mutation shows up in a few generations you’ve get cousin Muhammed whose sickly or a cripple or a moron.
My back of the envelope, cousins–otherwise unrelated–will share a chromosome on a quarter of the pairs. Their kids will thus get a duplicate from every four of those or 1/16 of the time. So on average would have 23/16 of a duplicated chromosome. But when the family is continually interbreeding–so you have shared chromosomes on both sides and shared between the sides–the chances go way up.
But in a normal situation of Malthusian pressure, Muhammed and his deleteriously mutated genes are being rapidly washed out. In lean times there’s only food for four kids, but the family has eight. Muhammed gets sick and dies. (Or more harshly the family doesn’t feed their loser kids/babies or kills them.) The other kids–remember the family normally also carries the pre-mutated chromosome copy–roll on. If the family really gets stuck in a genetic bottleneck with a bunch of bad genes it will tend to die out, to be replaced by other families with better genes.
I think the even bigger negatives of this sort of tribalism are the longer term ones.
–> You are more isolated from positive mutations and selection in other tribes/families. If there was a positive mutation that made people smarter or more conscientious, and it’s in your own family/tribe–great. But if it’s off somewhere else, it takes a long long time to get into your family’s gene pool. As a tribal isolate you don’t benefit from the selection going on around you.
–> You don’t build trust with other families and hence build trust throughout your community and scaling up, nation.
Fixing these two things–with the church attacking tribalism and cousin marriage–helped the West grow continually smarter, more conscientious, more cooperative people with a larger “trust boundary” for position interactions, and helped the West leap ahead. It’s the great sociological achievement of the West. The Japanese managed to do it to through some different cultural route. The Chinese managed to get the shared selection pressure–the constant downward mobility that Ron Unz outlined–but didn’t develop the shared family/higher trust aspect of the West. Tribal societies in contrast are backward. Dumber people who seem to lack the capability to put together decently functioning national institutions.
Yeah, and a couple generations later several of her grandchildren were at war with one another.
(Overall the quality of the ruling houses of Europe hasn’t exactly been anything to write home to mom about.)
In other words the managerial state has improved the cosmetics of the genocide of the Britons.
Britain is the home of the Britons people. It belongs to them and them alone. They have a small–already crowded–island and sub-replacement fertility. And the thuggish state that now rules them is still dragging in more and more hostile, incompatible and faster breeding foreigners–including Muslims who have absolutely no business there, are the historic (and continual) antagonists of the West and can never be Britons.
All you’re telling me is the state wants to keep the native Britons from noticing so they’ve put some scrubbers on the smokestacks.
- Bacon's EssaysReplies: @YetAnotherAnon
Add to that the critic Cyril Connolly’s “There is no more sombre enemy of good art than the pram in the hall“.
But against the advantage that “priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties” (yet rabbis seem to be able to care for a flock and be family men) you have to set the disadvantages, chief of which is that priestly celibacy, in societies where priests are high-status (and therefore likely to be chosen from the intelligent and charismatic) is highly dysgenic. To see that you only have to look at the number of major figures who are or were sons or daughters of the Protestant clergy – from Jane Austen and Lord Nelson to Alice Cooper and Nina Simone – not to mention two out of the last three UK prime ministers and the current German Chancellor (you can’t win them all).
Priests are men like any other, and in today’s society would have to be saints not to be influenced at all by the culture around them, where sexual imagery is difficult to avoid unless you never open a newspaper, turn on a television or radio (BBC Radio 4, the serious ‘broadsheet’ broadcaster, is currently celebrating with much graphic reminiscence the decriminalisation 50 years ago of homosexual acts between consenting adults), or use the internet. Forbidding them the love of women seems in this age to attract some candidates whose sincere lack of interest in women is for the wrong reasons.
Sure. All immigration “control” in Western Europe these days is cosmetic window dressing. The immigrants’ determination to get into our countries is ten times greater than the will of any politician to stop them. Any country not controlled by people hell bent on keeping it white will become non-white.
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Don't you know that everything must cater to the histrionic single women's voting block?
Ironically enough, there was an article the other day about the shortage of eligible men for such women in the telegraph.
-------------------------
from
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/04/shortage-eligible-men-has-left-women-taking-desperate-steps/
dearth of marriagable men has left an “oversupply” of educated women taking desperate steps to preserve their fertility, experts say
+++++++++++++++++++++
sometimes I wonder whether we are smart enough to continue as a species.Replies: @Olorin
I believe it was fellow Sailertariat commenter Desiderius who remarked recently, and most quoteworthily, that western civilization is a pact between alpha females and beta males to keep beta females and alpha males in line with monogamy and nuclear families. So that the beta males can do what they do best (civilization and the grueling unending work of its maintenance and periodic rejuvenation).
I’m not seeing a lot in HBD and alt-right circles about alpha females other than derision. It would seem to be a topic worth visiting with a more serious and informed mind set.
In my own circles, alpha females voted for Trump–not because they wanted him to shtup them, because they understand and feel comfortable around such an indisputably alpha male. This is the kind of man they’d love to work for because he creates strong organizations with strong loyalties and good outcomes.
The beta females I know are almost without exception unmarried and voted for Hillary or Bernie. One voted for that Marijuana Party guy–Johnson was it?
The alpha females I know started their careers grateful for a chance to prove themselves…then about mid-career ended up staggered to see how many organizations are run by betas. Including beta females who love destroying alpha females.
Many lateraled into later-in-life traditional family formation.
Some run businesses as a sideline. A few had a number of lovers but not one prided herself on being a “slut” or riding the carousel.
This is a six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other argument. It’s just a way of doing business with it’s own advantages and disadvantages.
How many married male preachers have had affairs, or like Martin Luther King Jr, had a sexual appetite so large you wondered how he had time to be involved in the Civil Right Movement? Okay, they’re not homosexuals but they aren’t exactly in control on the sexual front.
Either you’re controlling your pants or your pants are controlling you, and marriage or not, it doesn’t matter.
It turns out Catholics could lift the prohibition on married Priests at any time and revert to the Eastern tradition without any disruption at all in our thinking about it. Anglican Priests with wives/families who convert to Catholicism are most welcome under a set of conditions if the husband and wife agree.
It really isn’t a weird problem about sex. It’s preferring the advantages of single men. Married clergy are also running thin in Protestant denominations and have their own set of sexual issues, so it’s not clear that opening up to the Eastern tradition would help much that way.
Catholics were doing okay when we just point blank rejected and/or threw out all homosexuals when discovered. Like other denominations who become so “tolerant” as to start to lose the plot, we’ve got new, modern problems. I’m not sure they’re any worse or different than having lesbians in dog collars pretend to be Priests.
Ask their kids how they felt about Dad being a rabbi or Preacher. I’ve talked extensively to one young Lutheran man online. The frustration of having the church’s needs (low pay, odd/extensive hours, emotional exhaustion) be placed on his Dad created some ambivalence in an otherwise good sounding relationship. It can be done, but it’s not easy. He clearly saw the advantages of the Catholic tradition/thinking on the point.
I'm sure it's difficult. I've known a few vicar's offspring and they can fall close to the tree (Gordon Brown, Theresa May) or very far away (Lemmy of Motorhead, and a girl I know who got around a bit - in fact a lot - in her youth).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fYhF3YkmaMReplies: @Desiderius
You call following a cultural habit of the Semitic Arabs regarding marriages of first cousins, doing ok? No wonder the Indians abhor you…
Dang inbred Yankees.Replies: @ScarletNumber
That’s because in civilized states they never thought to make it illegal because it was never a problem.
“Ask their kids how they felt about Dad being a rabbi or Preacher.”
I’m sure it’s difficult. I’ve known a few vicar’s offspring and they can fall close to the tree (Gordon Brown, Theresa May) or very far away (Lemmy of Motorhead, and a girl I know who got around a bit – in fact a lot – in her youth).
He was doing something right.
I'm sure it's difficult. I've known a few vicar's offspring and they can fall close to the tree (Gordon Brown, Theresa May) or very far away (Lemmy of Motorhead, and a girl I know who got around a bit - in fact a lot - in her youth).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fYhF3YkmaMReplies: @Desiderius
Would that more vicars were as widely loved as Lemmy.
He was doing something right.
Do you have a better explanation with better documentation? The explanation seems to make sense to me: there is nothing Biblical about prohibiting cousin marriage, so the only other plausible source is something in the pagan Greco-Roman culture of the time.
There is no Christian moral teaching which antedates the 'institutionalization of the Church' bar those from the mouth of Christ.Replies: @jtgw
We’re talking history here, not theology or apologetics. Where did Christians get the idea that cousin marriage was bad? There is no hint of such a prohibition in Scripture, which is full of stories of close consanguineous marriages. The most plausible source seems to be Roman law, based on Roman upper class marriage norms.