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From the BBC:

Why Germany needs migrants more than UK

Robert Peston
Economics editor

2 hours ago

From the section Business 325 comments

This guy, again

There is an economic and demographic backdrop to the differential policies towards asylum-seekers of Germany and the UK – to Germany’s relatively open door, that compares with the UK’s heavily fortified portal (which will be opened just a bit by David Cameron later today).

The two relevant points (leaving aside moral ones) are that:

– the UK’s population is rising fast, whereas Germany’s is falling fast;

– the dependency ratio (the proportion of expensive older people in the population relative to able-bodied, tax-generating workers) is rising much quicker in Germany than in the UK.

So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).

As you can see, what is striking is that the UK is set to become the EU’s most populous country, ahead of Germany and France, as a result of a relatively high fertility rate and greater projected rates of net migration.

It would be hard to win another Battle of the Somme without a lot of cannon fodder. And we can never get enough millworkers.

Here is the thing. Wherever you stand in the debate on whether immigration is a good or bad thing – and most economists would argue that immigration promotes growth – right now immigration looks much more economically useful to Germany than to the UK.

Which is perhaps one of the unspoken reasons why Germany is being much more welcoming to asylum seekers from Syria and elsewhere right now.

That said, some business leaders and a couple of Tory ministers gave me what can only be described as an off-message critique of David Cameron’s approach to the migrant crisis over the weekend.

They said that Angela Merkel is creaming off the most economically useful of the asylum seekers, by taking those that have shown the gumption and initiative to risk life and limb by fleeing to Europe.

You can tell by this Merkel-loving innocent child’s facial width to height ratio (who is beloved by photo editors at both the BBC and the NYT)

Front page of NYTimes.com yesterday

that he’s someday going to grow up to be some kind of genetic engineering prodigy who will gratefully write huge tax checks to the German government. He looks like some kind of Muslim Wayne Rooney, and you know how rich Wayne is.

Emperor Valens, 328-378

By the way, Edward Gibbon had some interesting things to say in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire about the very old idea that a government can get rich off taxes by helping a million migrants cross the River Danube.

I know a lot of people today think it’s a sophisticated brand new idea, but, actually, the Emperor Valens was persuaded by his courtiers in the 376 A.D. that inviting a million German barbarians, desperately fleeing the vicious Huns, cross the Danube into Roman territory was going to help restock the Roman treasury and revibrantize Roman demographics.

You can find out how well this strategy worked out, personally, for Valens here.

 
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  1. “Which is perhaps one of the unspoken reasons why Germany is being much more welcoming to asylum seekers from Syria and elsewhere right now.”
    Germans don’t make this argument. it is ridiculous to say the Germans are doing this because they have used something like Franklyn’s decision calculus to calculate it is to their advantage. Is the BBC expert saying the Germans can vaguely understand this advanced demographic concept of having a smaller working population in the future, but the Japanese are too stupid?

    http://tommytoy.typepad.com/tommy-toy-pbt-consultin/2011/03/demographic-time-bombs-us-is-better-off-than-you-think.html

    https://www.unz.com/efingleton/japan-teflon-nation/
    “But even by East Asian standards, Japan is remarkably stone-hearted. It accepted a mere six asylum seekers in 2013 and eleven in 2014.”

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "“But even by East Asian standards, Japan is remarkably stone-hearted. It accepted a mere six asylum seekers in 2013 and eleven in 2014.”

    I would not call that being stone hearted. I would call that being street smart and alpha male on the part of the Japanese people.

    The Japanese people are not as beta male as American pop culture portrays them to be.

  2. If only Merkel could meet the same fate!

  3. Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she’s inviting to Germany will change the nation.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-merkel-says-record-refugee-influx-change-nation-102904757.html

    “What we are experiencing now is that will occupy and change our country in coming years,” she said after 20,000 migrants arrived at the weekend alone.

    “We want the change to be positive, and we believe we can accomplish that,” she added.

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were “very moving” and “breathtaking”.

    “That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history,” she said, expressing joy that “Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope”.

    • Replies: @Sean

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were “very moving” and “breathtaking”.
     
    Exactly. No Germans in the media say this is self interest in any way. Germany is doing this for moral reasons, yet the BBC's economic editor is saying it is self interest. Are these hundreds maybe thousands of Germans welcoming trains packed with migrants and doing volunteer work for the refugee/immigrants supposed to be actors? The ones offering to use their own homes to put the migrants up, are those German volunteers doing that from some economic motive. It is an obviously false analysis.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Articles like this literally make me feel sick to my stomach.

    She stressed that other EU countries must take in more migrants because "only with common European solidarity can we master this effort".
     
    What a moron.
    , @e
    And vill goot Germans go alung wid her?
    , @Bill B.
    A financier friend in Germany sent me an email of which this is a part:

    I am not sure if there is any logical, eg economic, explanation. I think it is more a case of illogical political correctness, where Merkel gets praised by CNN and Bono, but really has very little support amongst ordinary Germans, most of whom have not had a real pay rise for 15 years (see Schroeders reforms to make Germany more competitive).

    It will be interesting to see what happens next, ie now that the television pictures of migrants being welcomed in Germany have been seen. Will the numbers on the move massively increase, and if so what will Merkel do? Will she invite two million in 2016?

    Hungarians are of course the bad guys, ie the only country doing what countries are supposed to do, and control their borders. I was talking to a Bulgarian on Sunday, and rather interestingly she said that everyone has always assumed that East European want to join the West, but that she now thinks they might find a tough guy like Putin less threatening- as he can at least control his borders.

    Germany has also arrogantly invited in Syrians on behalf of other EU countries- which it should not be doing.

    Of course everyone here is attacking the UK at the moment, but if it comes to a new military campaign on the ground in Libya or Syria it will be of course British soldiers right at the front doing the fighting.
    , @Ron Mexico
    “That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history,” she said, expressing joy that “Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope”. Merkel (women should not be in charge of nations, IMHO)

    Read "The Wages of Guilt", Ian Buruma, back in college. Post WW2 Germany overkill on trying to make amends for the Nazis. Post WW2 Japan, what atrocities? what guilt?

    Let's see whose national identity is still intact in 2045.
    , @Ralphy Highroller
    "Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she’s inviting to Germany will change the nation."

    True, it will destroy Germany's historic identity as a homeland for ethnic Germans, fragment its society, overburden its social services, lower its national average IQ and reduce its famed economic competitiveness and innovation.

    But at least left-wing Germans will feel better about their country's fascist past through the morally redemptive infusions of non-Western peoples.
  4. Reminds me of the BBC home editor Mark Eastman who claimed that 600,000 strong white flight from London was a sign of people taking advantage of high house prices to upgrade into the countryside.

    Eastman does not think there is such a thing as British identity so the idea that Londoners might not want to live in Lahore or Lagos does not cause a flicker on his radar screen.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-21511904

  5. “(including Jews like my family in London’s East End).”

    They don’t even pretend to hide it anymore. These people are absolutely shameless.

  6. The argument that Germany “needs” more workers fails for two reasons. One is that a racially and culturally different group is unlikely to cheerfully support other people’s parents with their taxes. Secondly, the economy is changing. Automation increasingly displaces people and not just in traditional blue collar jobs; many office jobs can be computerized. A declining population may be an advantage under such circumstances. As I’ve said before on other blogs, I remember the U.S. of 1960 (population about 170 million). It didn’t seem empty!

    • Replies: @Jimi
    I predict in 10-20 years the Left will come out for Social Security means-testing and cuts. The Left will argue that it is racist to tax disproportionately non-White workers to pay for the benefits of disproportionately White retirees.
    , @ogunsiron
    The "new germans" are not as capable as the native germans when it comes to driving a robust economy. They come from low trust, clan based societies and thus won't have much interest in the common good. Last but not least, they will soon be bombarded with incessant reminders that white germans are racists and bad people.

    They're really going to be ok with paying taxes to take care of old racists ?
  7. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Bullpoopy.

    One of the big things about the EU – which eventually is supposed to overwhelm the separateness and sovereignty of Germany itself, is the ‘freedom of labor movement’ within the EU itself – as most Britons know to their chagrin.
    Therefore an Italian, Greek, Spaniard, Frenchman or Portuguese – all societies wracked by mass unemployment, not to mention all of eastern Europe, has as much ‘right’ to German job as a German.
    If the EU actually functioned, then all surplus German positions could be filled from within the ‘common economic area’.

  8. @Ed
    Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she's inviting to Germany will change the nation.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-merkel-says-record-refugee-influx-change-nation-102904757.html

    "What we are experiencing now is that will occupy and change our country in coming years," she said after 20,000 migrants arrived at the weekend alone.

    "We want the change to be positive, and we believe we can accomplish that," she added.

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were "very moving" and "breathtaking".

    "That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history," she said, expressing joy that "Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope".

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were “very moving” and “breathtaking”.

    Exactly. No Germans in the media say this is self interest in any way. Germany is doing this for moral reasons, yet the BBC’s economic editor is saying it is self interest. Are these hundreds maybe thousands of Germans welcoming trains packed with migrants and doing volunteer work for the refugee/immigrants supposed to be actors? The ones offering to use their own homes to put the migrants up, are those German volunteers doing that from some economic motive. It is an obviously false analysis.

    • Replies: @BurplesonAFB
    60% or more are against settling middle easterners. The Germans do not consent.
  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Robert Peston is best known by British viewers of BBC TV news forms odd beyond odd pronounciatiom and syllable stressing of the English language, and a general hysterical, excitable, aspergy type manner about him.

    Gone are the days when BBC news presenters had to have clear, well spoken ‘Oxford’ accents. Gone are the days when they had to be calm, authoritative men with gravitas, and not circus performers.

  10. In my younger days I would never have dreamt of finding a smidgen of hope in a middle-brow, populist, highly non-intellectual and decidedly uncool paper like the Express:

    The European Union was first established in the wake of the Second World War as a means of acting as a restraint on Germany, yet the EU has now turned into a malignant instrument for the German domination of Europe. It was Merkel’s self-righteous, bombastic declaration that Germany would take in almost a million refugees that sparked the current crisis. Yet now, having encouraged this colossal wave of migrants without any consultation, Germany has the cheek to demand that other countries take their “fair share.”

    …We are at a turning point in our history. Either we can regain our sovereignty and restore control of our national destiny. Or we can maintain our subjugation to Brussels, down which road lies the certainty of our national demise.

    http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/603392/Comment-EU-is-destroying-our-values-and-our-civilisation-Leo-McKinstry

  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Robert Peston is amazingly inarticulate. I often wonder why they put him on the TV and radio when he can hardly string a couple of words together. Some people have suggested that the bizarre rhythms and stresses in his speech are due to some kind of aphasia, but the answer is probably that he is just thick. He recently entertained the delusion that he was going to become the head of BBC television. His dad was an important person in the Labour Party and I imagine political connections were used to get Peston a job in the media.

  12. I’m looking at a German website called Flüchtlinge Willkommen, that’s “Refugees Welcome.” Quote from the home page:

    Warum können geflüchtete Menschen in Deutschland nicht einfach in WGs wohnen statt in Massenunterkünften?

    Translation: “Why shouldn’t refugees in Germany just be able to live in shared apartments instead of mass accommodation?” The website goes on to urge Germans to open their apartments to refugees

    • Replies: @Jonathan Silber
    First, Open Borders; next, Open Apartments.
  13. The NYT picked that guy because he looks a little twinkish- you know, stir the unconscious gaydar sympathy.

  14. There’s some truth in the article.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers. German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    The mass migration of Syrians into Germany gives German employers access to a large pool of low-wage labor. This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate&financial interests, is so pro-refugee. This is an attempt to navigate around the anti-immigration unions and nationalists. Merkel is enabling mass immigration without changing migration laws substantially.

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries. Also, since the refugees are young, they won’t be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won’t be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It’s easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn’t so easy to push. That’s good news for the Syrians and some of the other nationalities, but bad news for Balkans migrants and South Asians (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they’ll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers. Since most politicians and business leaders only care for the short-term, it makes sense to be lenient toward refugees for now.

    Once you follow the money, everything makes sense.

    • Agree: Deduction
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sorry, I simply cannot agree with you.
    Thilo Sarrazin's recent book comprehensively and explicitly underlines the way the previous mass intake of third world labor into Germany happened to be a non-working, welfare chomping economic and fiscal disaster.
    , @SFG
    You said it better than I could.

    You see a similar dynamic here in the USA where the Republicans want the cheap labor (at least the donor class does) and the Democrats want the votes from unrestricted immigration.

    The only thing that would have made it more ironic would be if the migrants were from Italy. ;)
    , @Chrisnonymous
    The costs of mistakes, lost stock and merchandise, lawsuits, absenteeism, etc are all real costs. I find it hard to believe that German employers really think Syrians and Germans are interchangeable labor inputs.

    Moreover, I find it very difficult to believe that German employers can't make calculations about the kind of country their children will inherit.

    I think it's more plausible that this is a case of social signaling/ identity--goodwhites vs badwhites, as Derb says.
    , @Anonymous
    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn't "German industry" first prefer someone closer by?

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries.

    How many years would be required for this to take effect, for workers who are "freed up" to get trained to "move up the ladder"? Wouldn't "German industry" prefer to immigrants already trained for "specialized industries"?

    Also, since the refugees are young, they won’t be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Don't many of them have families? Won't it be quicker for them to have families than to train a blue collar German for a "specialized industry"?

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won’t be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It’s easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn’t so easy to push.

    Why can't the unions block all "refugees"?

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they’ll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers.

    So a Syrian displaces a German from a construction job and the German construction worker goes on to plausibly compete for a "highly-paid" job in a "specialized industry"? Don't they alreaddy do this now though? I mean, if it's so easy to enter a high paying job, wouldn't German construction workers already be angling toward one and hence be increasing the supply?

    This doesn't increase the supply of highly paid workers, it only increases the supply of construction workers.
    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    "That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries."

    Challenge: I've heard this claim for 25 years in regards to the US. Can you identify where this actually happened here?
    , @snorlax
    I think just pointing at business' desire for low wages half misses the mark. We have a somewhat bizarre situation where self-serving greed is blindly filtered through PC ideology, or at least spherical-cow supply and demand graphs. They act as though there is no difference between immigrants from Switzerland, Syria and Somalia, so therefore more people = lower wages + no downsides!

    Openly conspiring to impoversh the working class for a few extra bucks is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but it is absolute, career-destroying, verboten thoughtcrime to think the thought that maybe skyrocketing crime, white flight, corruption and increasingly anti-business politics will be more harmful to one's business than slightly reduced wages will help.

    It's really a kind of truly bizarre doublethink - business leaders must act like amoral money-grubbing sociopaths to please the shareholders, but must unquestioningly accept every PC maxim to keep their careers, so they act like an amoral money-grubbing sociopath would if all the PC maxims were actually true.

    It's the type of thing the Czechs like to write about. Like The Power of the Powerless but more Kafkaesque.
    , @anon

    There’s some truth in the article.
     
    There is no truth in the article.

    The only way to increase prosperity is to increase productivity so you *want* a tight labor market to encourage technological innovation.

    Solving the problem with immigrant labor not only reduces productivity in the short term it destroys it over the long term because there is no incentive to invest in innovation.

    Employers are stuck in a tragedy of the commons dynamic where importing more labor is the easiest path but in the long term it is stupid.
  15. This is why economists are such quacks and should never be taken seriously. With them it’s all about money money money, growth growth growth, GDP GDP GDP. Where do these people live, anyway? Are there any values on this earth apart from those?

  16. You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think

    asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/135073-refugee-crisis/#entry7317919

    • Replies: @Deduction

    September 7, 2015 at 12:26 pm GMT
    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think
     
    Of course people on a GoT website want to be Merkel Mother of Refugees. They have such important feelz, they must let everyone know how pure hearted and generous they are!

    Of course anyone of them could save hundreds of third world lives a year by getting an evening job and donating the money they are paid to a charity. Or even just stop eating at restaurants. But they will never do it because everything they are saying is empty status signalling b*llshit.
    , @ben tillman

    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think

    asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/135073-refugee-crisis/#entry7317919
     

    Presenting a tiny sample of English-speaking and (presumably) White people as the norm reveals you to be a stupid racist.

    Ninety percent of the people in this world agree with us (including maybe 40% of the people in your linked thread).

    , @Beach

    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think
     
    And half the replies don't agree with those "normal people." Btw, your normal person is my blinkered, bleeding heart.
  17. @JohnnyWalker123
    There's some truth in the article.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers. German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    The mass migration of Syrians into Germany gives German employers access to a large pool of low-wage labor. This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate&financial interests, is so pro-refugee. This is an attempt to navigate around the anti-immigration unions and nationalists. Merkel is enabling mass immigration without changing migration laws substantially.

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That'd free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries. Also, since the refugees are young, they won't be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won't be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It's easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn't so easy to push. That's good news for the Syrians and some of the other nationalities, but bad news for Balkans migrants and South Asians (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they'll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers. Since most politicians and business leaders only care for the short-term, it makes sense to be lenient toward refugees for now.

    Once you follow the money, everything makes sense.

    Sorry, I simply cannot agree with you.
    Thilo Sarrazin’s recent book comprehensively and explicitly underlines the way the previous mass intake of third world labor into Germany happened to be a non-working, welfare chomping economic and fiscal disaster.

    • Replies: @Jimi
    Germany has a skilled worker shortage. There are already a surplus of under-employed Arab and Turk immigrants in Germany.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Thilo Sarazzin's point is that the Muslim immigrants, in the long-term, have made Germany worse off. In the short-term, Turkish Gasterbeiter did enrich German industrialists during the 60s and 70s. It was when they had children and grandchildren that their costs became apparent.

    I'd assume that Merkel and her corporate backers aren't looking past a 10-year horizon. By then, they'll mostly be retired. Then it's someone else's problem.
  18. 1) They will take up space in potentially vacant real estate.

    2) “genetic engineering prodigy ” How about adequate carpenter. Being from NYC I can tell you when the Soviet Union collapsed there were Soviet military officers doing normal sorts of construction work. Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People’s Paradise.

    Lots of refugees also have credentials that can be used. All sorts of scientists from the Soviet Union ended up here. In the case of the Syrians, they all look like svelte modern types whose families could afford to pay their way to Germany even though they must have lost fortunes due to the war.

    • Replies: @Deduction

    Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People’s Paradise.
     
    So you're for consigning American public school graduates to unemployment?

    For a smoother cheaper driveway?

    You're an awful person.

    1) They will take up space in potentially vacant real estate.

     

    And after you've made the young unemployed you want to push up their housing costs? How delightful.

    Do you hate your children? Do you have any appropriate feelings that involve people you actually know or do you just blurt out abstract feelz about people whom you've never met so that you appear virtuous and feel smugly self-satisfied?

    There is an empty void where your soul should be.
    , @Anonymous
    they all look like svelte modern types whose families could afford to pay their way to Germany even though they must have lost fortunes due to the war.

    Why would you think their families have lost fortunes?
    , @peterike
    Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People’s Paradise.

    I would want the American -- note that, AMERICAN -- public school graduate, because pouring driveways would be a fine job for him and he could do it perfectly well. Otherwise, he'll be on welfare while your precious Russian engineer spends his off-time running Medicare scams.
    , @Perplexed
    In NYC, my building super is a Serb and his helper a Pole. They fixed a sink drain using two incompatible metals, one of which ate away at the other, and installed the low-flow toilet at an angle, not square to the walls.

    For anything important, I'd rather have American union labor.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    My mother likes to tell the story of when she worked in a candy shop in university. There was a physicist that used to frequent the shop but just handed my mother whatever money he had because he couldn't make change. Whether he couldn't or couldn't be bothered is not really so important.

    In the early 90s I did an under the table construction job with an older Pole who was "visiting" the US. He kept telling me to slow down and take more breaks.
  19. @JohnnyWalker123
    There's some truth in the article.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers. German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    The mass migration of Syrians into Germany gives German employers access to a large pool of low-wage labor. This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate&financial interests, is so pro-refugee. This is an attempt to navigate around the anti-immigration unions and nationalists. Merkel is enabling mass immigration without changing migration laws substantially.

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That'd free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries. Also, since the refugees are young, they won't be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won't be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It's easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn't so easy to push. That's good news for the Syrians and some of the other nationalities, but bad news for Balkans migrants and South Asians (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they'll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers. Since most politicians and business leaders only care for the short-term, it makes sense to be lenient toward refugees for now.

    Once you follow the money, everything makes sense.

    You said it better than I could.

    You see a similar dynamic here in the USA where the Republicans want the cheap labor (at least the donor class does) and the Democrats want the votes from unrestricted immigration.

    The only thing that would have made it more ironic would be if the migrants were from Italy. 😉

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You see a similar dynamic here in the USA where the Republicans want the cheap labor (at least the donor class does)

    "At least the donor class does" is a massive qualifier. You should have just written, "the donor class wants the cheap labor."
  20. So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).

    Hey, how about that! And named “Preston” no less! By the way, was watching Fox this morning. Even this “right wing” network is propagandizing for mass arab and african muslim immigration into Europe. Why is Fox referring to political leaders who oppose this mass migration pejoratively as “right wing” and the left-wing leaders cheering it on as “compassionate?” Btw, most of the “refugees” are young and male. Enjoy your Rotherhams, Europeans.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    The one constant is Rupert Murdoch. In every single publication of his, a pro-immigration tone is taken. Murdoch is the literal archetype of the Cuckservative. Cucked by Blair and Wendy Deng, he has an unquenchable fever for immigration.
    , @G Pinfold

    ...watching Fox this morning. Even this “right wing” network is propagandizing for mass arab and african muslim immigration into Europe. Why is Fox referring to political leaders who oppose this mass migration pejoratively as “right wing” and the left-wing leaders cheering it on as “compassionate?”
     
    The MSN is now claiming that political leaders need to do more to respond to the "growing wave of global support for the refugees'. The 'wave' is said to be 'intensifying'. By way of evidence, they present the usual suspects saying the usual things they usually say.

    Fifty channels can go 24/7 with NGO dittoheads, socialist politicians, nice ladies, ethnic agitators, migration industry spivs, human rights lawyers, special snowflakes and other blowhards. But what does it prove? There is no wave; only circular turbulence, like water draining down a plug hole.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    And named “Preston” no less!
     
    Peston. This is Robert Preston.
  21. Here is the thing. Wherever you stand in the debate on whether immigration is a good or bad thing – and most economists would argue that immigration promotes growth….

    Ha ha. But is it good or bad?

    They said that Angela Merkel is creaming off the most economically useful of the asylum seekers, by taking those that have shown the gumption and initiative to risk life and limb by fleeing to Europe.

    Precedent suggests they will be the ones that find work fastest and impose the least economic burden on Germany or any other host country.

    Ha ha. Earlier, you said they would produce a surplus to subsidize pensioners. Now you say they’ll be a burden, albeit a minor one.

    So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).

    Your actions belie your claim.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    > young grateful families from Syria

    The BBC neglected to mention the expiration date of this gratitude. For the Huns of 376, less than a year. On the other hand, the warm feelings of the vibrant young men of Rotherham towards their hosts (and young hostesses) has lasted much longer.

    Ha ha.
  22. Migrants on the rampage in Italy…

  23. @ben tillman

    Here is the thing. Wherever you stand in the debate on whether immigration is a good or bad thing – and most economists would argue that immigration promotes growth....
     
    Ha ha. But is it good or bad?


    They said that Angela Merkel is creaming off the most economically useful of the asylum seekers, by taking those that have shown the gumption and initiative to risk life and limb by fleeing to Europe.

    Precedent suggests they will be the ones that find work fastest and impose the least economic burden on Germany or any other host country.
     
    Ha ha. Earlier, you said they would produce a surplus to subsidize pensioners. Now you say they'll be a burden, albeit a minor one.

    So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden - in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London's East End).
     
    Your actions belie your claim.

    > young grateful families from Syria

    The BBC neglected to mention the expiration date of this gratitude. For the Huns of 376, less than a year. On the other hand, the warm feelings of the vibrant young men of Rotherham towards their hosts (and young hostesses) has lasted much longer.

    Ha ha.

  24. “Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated – just the sort of people we are looking for” Daimler CEO

    • Replies: @Deduction

    “Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated – just the sort of people we are looking for” Daimler CEO
     
    I don't blame the CEOs for being greedy. I expect him to be greedy. I do blame the dumb spineless politicians for listening to him.
    , @Anonymous
    “Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated – just the sort of people we are looking for” Daimler CEO

    Um, aren't there millions of men in Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, and Ukraine who would fit this description and who cannot find jobs?
    , @eah
    Lügenpresse in der Propagandaoffensive

    For the last few weeks, the German media has been busy telling lies (Lügen) about die Flüchtlinge -- zB, that they are "gut ausgebildet" und/oder "hoch qualifiziert".
  25. I would be failing in my duty if I didn’t repost this video of Peston interviewing Rabbi Sacks about how Europe should open its borders to Syria.

    http://youtu.be/a1RZ5B12lRQ

    What he doesn’t mention is that of the 4 million refugees who in Syria’s bordering countries, NONE are in Israel:

    http://youtu.be/0_QrIapiNOw

    Surely, Mr Peston should be pointing out that if Israel imports 4 million mostly young men, many with military experience, then, like Europe, it will turn into an economic paradise. What could possibly go wrong?

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    Who are these people, like this Rabbi, who must continuously pretend that they care? What do they get out of it?
  26. Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yup.

    Nothing wrong with a bit of adultress stoning and 12 year old niece marrying.
    , @BurplesonAFB
    Steve has written before how the left hand of the bell curve is more reliant on a healthy culture to be able to make good decisions. Societal changes since the 1960s may have been liberating to elites, but they've been extremely destructive to the working class.

    Coming Apart by Charles Murray develops a similar argument.
    , @Cryptogenic
    Unfortunately this is the truth. English proles seem to grow increasingly retarded-looking. Drool Brittania. Still, they have a long way to go before they match the genetic caries of their 75 IQ grateful guests.

    Ever notice how the rhetoric of the greatness of immigrants makes them sound like vitamins? They're always "infusing," "energizing" and giving "boosts" to "tired" and "old" societies.
    , @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    What is the average English working class white like?
    , @Bill B.
    It is interesting that the white working class is often demonised by people who can hardly contain their excitement about 'exotic' people who will surely manifest a loathing of these bien pensant types in a remarkably short space of time.

    Luckily the goo-goo liberal is carefully trained not to notice the sneers of the brown exotics.
  27. Marine Le Pen has accused Germany of bringing in “slaves” for labour shortages and to lower wages.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/06/us-europe-migrants-france-farright-idUSKCN0R60TF20150906

    “Germany probably thinks its population is moribund, and it is probably seeking to lower wages and continue to recruit slaves through mass immigration,” Marine Le Pen told supporters at a meeting in the southeastern city of Marseille, a key French destination for migrants from north Africa.

  28. @JohnnyWalker123
    There's some truth in the article.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers. German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    The mass migration of Syrians into Germany gives German employers access to a large pool of low-wage labor. This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate&financial interests, is so pro-refugee. This is an attempt to navigate around the anti-immigration unions and nationalists. Merkel is enabling mass immigration without changing migration laws substantially.

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That'd free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries. Also, since the refugees are young, they won't be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won't be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It's easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn't so easy to push. That's good news for the Syrians and some of the other nationalities, but bad news for Balkans migrants and South Asians (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they'll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers. Since most politicians and business leaders only care for the short-term, it makes sense to be lenient toward refugees for now.

    Once you follow the money, everything makes sense.

    The costs of mistakes, lost stock and merchandise, lawsuits, absenteeism, etc are all real costs. I find it hard to believe that German employers really think Syrians and Germans are interchangeable labor inputs.

    Moreover, I find it very difficult to believe that German employers can’t make calculations about the kind of country their children will inherit.

    I think it’s more plausible that this is a case of social signaling/ identity–goodwhites vs badwhites, as Derb says.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Some of it likely is the social signaling you claim, but businessmen putting profits ahead of the public good are a pretty common thing. They'll get cheaper labor, even if they lose a little in the areas you cite. And maybe help weaken Germany's powerful labor unions.
    , @JohnnyWalker123

    The costs of mistakes, lost stock and merchandise, lawsuits, absenteeism, etc are all real costs. I find it hard to believe that German employers really think Syrians and Germans are interchangeable labor inputs.

     

    They're not, but a minimum-wage Syrian is still more economical than a $30/hr German. He's easier to abuse too, as he's non-unionized.

    Moreover, I find it very difficult to believe that German employers can’t make calculations about the kind of country their children will inherit.

     

    California businessmen didn't back when they started to hire huge numbers of Mexican illegals during the late 70s and 80s. Those illegals eventually displaced a huge number of white Californians, including the more affluent. I really doubt German employers care about their country. The mentality is that they'll make so much money that their children can afford to insulate themselves in a wealthy enclave, which is the norm in much of the world (especially Latin America).
  29. Canada accommodates 1 percent of its population as immigrants per year, Australia is around 2 percent, and 90 percent of those are nonwhites.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They can learn their lesson the hard way.
  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    There's some truth in the article.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers. German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    The mass migration of Syrians into Germany gives German employers access to a large pool of low-wage labor. This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate&financial interests, is so pro-refugee. This is an attempt to navigate around the anti-immigration unions and nationalists. Merkel is enabling mass immigration without changing migration laws substantially.

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That'd free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries. Also, since the refugees are young, they won't be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won't be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It's easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn't so easy to push. That's good news for the Syrians and some of the other nationalities, but bad news for Balkans migrants and South Asians (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they'll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers. Since most politicians and business leaders only care for the short-term, it makes sense to be lenient toward refugees for now.

    Once you follow the money, everything makes sense.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn’t “German industry” first prefer someone closer by?

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries.

    How many years would be required for this to take effect, for workers who are “freed up” to get trained to “move up the ladder”? Wouldn’t “German industry” prefer to immigrants already trained for “specialized industries”?

    Also, since the refugees are young, they won’t be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Don’t many of them have families? Won’t it be quicker for them to have families than to train a blue collar German for a “specialized industry”?

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won’t be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It’s easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn’t so easy to push.

    Why can’t the unions block all “refugees”?

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they’ll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers.

    So a Syrian displaces a German from a construction job and the German construction worker goes on to plausibly compete for a “highly-paid” job in a “specialized industry”? Don’t they alreaddy do this now though? I mean, if it’s so easy to enter a high paying job, wouldn’t German construction workers already be angling toward one and hence be increasing the supply?

    This doesn’t increase the supply of highly paid workers, it only increases the supply of construction workers.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn’t “German industry” first prefer someone closer by?
     
    Great point. Now that citizens of EU member states can move from one EU country to another, like a guy from Kansas moving to California, German industry should have no problem getting idle hands from one part of Europe into Germany.
    , @Lot

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?
     
    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.

    This explains, but not excuses, the German resentment toward Greece and Spain. They had a long boom in the 2000's that Germany missed out in.

    The rebuilding of the East also meant that West Germans had to pay much more in taxes than they received in government transfers and services. As a result, with weak wage growth and high taxes to pay for the rebuilding, actual German households don't have much private savings to show for their two decades of austerity. Average private net worth is about twice as high in Northern Italy than Germany.
    , @Ivy
    German worker shortage solution aspect is just H1-B visa personnel shuffle to lower costs, with a stylish continental EU twist.
    That shows how snap decisions based on emotional arguments can have many unintended long-term and life-altering consequences. The Malcolm Gladwells of the world can blink and snap all they want, but Hans and Franz still have to buy groceries.
    , @JohnnyWalker123

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn’t “German industry” first prefer someone closer by?

     

    Neighboring workers aren't coming in large enough numbers. Spaniards and Greeks want high wages to abandon their homes for Germany. Syrians will take whatever they are paid. Hence the preference for Syrians.

    America's construction industry often employers minimum wage Mexicans over unemployed youth. Why? They're work longer hours for less money, with a readiness to relocate anywhere.

    How many years would be required for this to take effect, for workers who are “freed up” to get trained to “move up the ladder”? Wouldn’t “German industry” prefer to immigrants already trained for “specialized industries”?

     

    German industry has been pleading with the govt to open up the country to Indian engineers. Labor unions have mostly blocked this (so far).

    Don’t many of them have families? Won’t it be quicker for them to have families than to train a blue collar German for a “specialized industry”?

     

    In the short-term, they won't be bringing over their families.

    So a Syrian displaces a German from a construction job and the German construction worker goes on to plausibly compete for a “highly-paid” job in a “specialized industry”? Don’t they alreaddy do this now though? I mean, if it’s so easy to enter a high paying job, wouldn’t German construction workers already be angling toward one and hence be increasing the supply?

     

    Sure they do, but they often have to entice the construction worker with much higher pay. Especially if the construction worker needs more education and has to relocate. If Syrians drive down construction wages, then some German construction workers will willingly leave their industry for a more specialized industry.
  31. Sounds like the BBC Economics Editor is providing precisely the kind of justification for this refugee influx that I surmised this weekend. I realize most people here think the consequences of this will be dire (and in the US, too), and they may be right, but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.

    On the other hand, many posters argue that population shrinkage is a good thing; it would be good to have some external articles on that, as well as case studies. (Black Death being an obvious but radical example, but describing a very different economy.)

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane.

    The West doesn't need to do anything to promote people's having lots of children. It just needs to close its borders like Japan and Israel do.
    , @Chrisnonymous

    some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground.
     
    Wait. I heard about one. It got started around 1500 years ago. It already has a large following worldwide. And many of the its followers would be happy to move to Europe to help Europeans adapt. I just can't remember its name...
    , @iSteveFan

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.
     
    If you were in charge of the government and really believed that your nation was in danger due to a declining population, what would you do? First, you could easily determine that with modern medicine life spans were increasing, infant mortality was decreasing and there were no famines or wars to explain the drop. So you would readily ascertain it was a decline in birth rates that was to blame.

    With this in mind, what policies would you pursue? Would you try to implement policies to increase the birth rate of your own people, who obviously are acclimated to your nation and culture, or would you immediately seek to demographically alter your country by bringing in mass numbers of alien people with little to zero cultural affinity with your nation?

    Now ask yourself why the government is not only not trying to address this decline in birth rates among the natives, but is doing things to exacerbate it. For example, the government and the culture promote the idea that women have to have a career. As a result millions of women go to university to get questionable diplomas that put them into massive debt that they will have to spend the better part of their career working off. Though women have always worked, generally before or after child bearing, getting into massive debt early on forces them to continue to work through the best part of their child bearing age.

    If a diminishing population were the real problem, the government would determine that something, such as the culture, the tax burden or the overall quality of life in the nation was a detriment to couples having more children and would actively try to address it. But instead they immediately resort to the mass migration of alien peoples which only seems to exacerbate the overall quality of life issues that were causing declining birth rates to begin with.

    Don't fall for the "economic" arguments for MASS immigration. Just like the old argument that we needed immigrants to pay taxes turned out to be false given that we are importing net tax consumers, this issue that our birth rates are declining is just a shield they have grabbed to hide their real intentions. And to me, after peeling away all their arguments, clearly seems to be the demographic change of European nations.

    , @Massimo Heitor

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground.
     
    Larger family sizes are achievable with nothing more than basic social willpower.

    My parents stressed strongly delayed family making. I remember being told you shouldn't have too many children because global overpopulation will be a problem. If my culture stressed having a large family, I would have done so. Convincing people to have larger families is really not that hard.

    Women have strong influence on their immediate families, not so much men. If the women want their immediate families to have more kids, they can absolutely influence that.

    To me and I imagine most people here, the threat of swift demographic replacement was unheard of until recently. I know Camp of the Saints was published in 1973, but that was a fringe book that normal people never heard of until recently.

    Most environmentalists have stressed that the number one environmental problem is population growth. These are left-leaning liberal academic environmentalists saying this, not fringe alt-right types. And worse, we can't come close to supporting today's population at western standards of living where everyone has a car and plumbing and eats manufactured foods. Third world inhabitants currently have very low environmental footprints. Some don't use any electricity or cars or plumbing.
    , @anon

    but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.
     
    Then halt all immigration and introduce pro-natal policies instead.
    , @AnotherDad

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.
     
    Well said on the values Mr. Moore. But that ideology already exists--various forms of Christianity, evangelicals, trad Catholics, (stretching "Christianity") Mormons.

    What's happening "under the covers" is that the white population in white nations is skewing more "pro-natalist" as selection takes it's toll. But that is covered by the huge demographic tsunami of mass immigration. Absent that, white nations' populations would have peaked, then would fall a bit and then recover into some sort of steady\quasi-steady state as family life became more affordable and more people being born were family oriented sorts.

    Unfortunately, the white haters have jumped on this moment of demographic transition and with mass immigration and "diversity" have plunged in the dagger.

    ~~~

    My main argument here with you is that you also don't just seek "lots of children"--i.e. high fertility. What you seek is robust eugenic fertility. The smart, strong, healthy, capable having lots of children; the stupid, weak, sickly, incompetent having fewer--ideally none.

    That's what the West used to have--strong selection for IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation, along with health. But now the welfare state encourages the screw ups to breed. And even more pernicious, the reigning ideology encourages smart and capable women *not* to breed, by pushing feminism, female careerism, the enviro-sensitive "two children" limit.

  32. @SFG
    You said it better than I could.

    You see a similar dynamic here in the USA where the Republicans want the cheap labor (at least the donor class does) and the Democrats want the votes from unrestricted immigration.

    The only thing that would have made it more ironic would be if the migrants were from Italy. ;)

    You see a similar dynamic here in the USA where the Republicans want the cheap labor (at least the donor class does)

    “At least the donor class does” is a massive qualifier. You should have just written, “the donor class wants the cheap labor.”

  33. (((Robert Peston)))

    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    This is my first sighting of echoes on isteve :)
  34. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SPMoore8
    Sounds like the BBC Economics Editor is providing precisely the kind of justification for this refugee influx that I surmised this weekend. I realize most people here think the consequences of this will be dire (and in the US, too), and they may be right, but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.

    On the other hand, many posters argue that population shrinkage is a good thing; it would be good to have some external articles on that, as well as case studies. (Black Death being an obvious but radical example, but describing a very different economy.)

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won't do that to marry or have children.

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane.

    The West doesn’t need to do anything to promote people’s having lots of children. It just needs to close its borders like Japan and Israel do.

  35. All we need now is for some tech-savvy reader to provide a YouTube link to Bob Marley’s ‘Exodus -Movement of the People’, to provide suitable mood music.

  36. Famously the Black Death increased the wages and privileges of laborers by knocking off a large portion of their competition. Feudalism in Europe is said to have been fatally weakened by it. The price of land and housing fell enabling the nuclear family to start to become the European norm. So many priests died, they had to establish new schools like Cambridge University to train new ones.

    This morning on NPR, someone explained that immigrants can work more flexible hours than young American students. That’s why employers prefer foreign labor and why we need more.

  37. @Ed
    Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she's inviting to Germany will change the nation.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-merkel-says-record-refugee-influx-change-nation-102904757.html

    "What we are experiencing now is that will occupy and change our country in coming years," she said after 20,000 migrants arrived at the weekend alone.

    "We want the change to be positive, and we believe we can accomplish that," she added.

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were "very moving" and "breathtaking".

    "That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history," she said, expressing joy that "Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope".

    Articles like this literally make me feel sick to my stomach.

    She stressed that other EU countries must take in more migrants because “only with common European solidarity can we master this effort”.

    What a moron.

  38. The UK government seem to be trying to use the “something must be done” feeling to get Brit boots back on the ground in Syria. Just what we need.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/07/andrew-mitchell-suggests-british-troops-could-help-create-safe-havens-in-syria-politics-live

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Turning the refugee crisis into a military adventure was bound to come up. It could be done, but neither the UK, US, nor EU has the civic will or virtue to go whole hog and basically colonize and control the Middle East. And I don't want to start a Fifth Crusade, either: But either EU goes to them or they come to the EU. There's no way to emerge from this situation without guilt; the passivity of European governments -- insofar as they are not motivated by (perhaps dubious) economic considerations -- is simply to kick the can down the road.
  39. @SPMoore8
    Sounds like the BBC Economics Editor is providing precisely the kind of justification for this refugee influx that I surmised this weekend. I realize most people here think the consequences of this will be dire (and in the US, too), and they may be right, but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.

    On the other hand, many posters argue that population shrinkage is a good thing; it would be good to have some external articles on that, as well as case studies. (Black Death being an obvious but radical example, but describing a very different economy.)

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won't do that to marry or have children.

    some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground.

    Wait. I heard about one. It got started around 1500 years ago. It already has a large following worldwide. And many of the its followers would be happy to move to Europe to help Europeans adapt. I just can’t remember its name…

  40. @JohnnyWalker123
    There's some truth in the article.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers. German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    The mass migration of Syrians into Germany gives German employers access to a large pool of low-wage labor. This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate&financial interests, is so pro-refugee. This is an attempt to navigate around the anti-immigration unions and nationalists. Merkel is enabling mass immigration without changing migration laws substantially.

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That'd free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries. Also, since the refugees are young, they won't be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won't be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It's easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn't so easy to push. That's good news for the Syrians and some of the other nationalities, but bad news for Balkans migrants and South Asians (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they'll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers. Since most politicians and business leaders only care for the short-term, it makes sense to be lenient toward refugees for now.

    Once you follow the money, everything makes sense.

    “That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries.”

    Challenge: I’ve heard this claim for 25 years in regards to the US. Can you identify where this actually happened here?

    • Replies: @NOTA
    I thought all those unemployed people from Spain, Greece, and Portugal were already heading to Germany to take those jobs. Wouldn't they provide a lot of lower-wage labor already?

    The real reason for taking on refugees is for humanitarian reasons. And this is reasonable, within some limits, just like giving some money to charity is reasonable. But that means deciding how many refugees make sense to take, and choosing the ones you are willing to have--not taking any group that can riot at a train station and get a lot of TV time.
    , @Bill B.
    You are right. The problem is that in every wave of peon class immigrants come others of higher abilities. The early movers are also often in frontier mode, even if the frontier is a nice, placid, western town.

    They will work for less and work more enthusiastically for a time; living, as has been noted in this neighbourhood, in cramped accommodations that locals reject.

    The original inhabitants are demoralised at multiple levels. The normal lifecycle of school leavers starting somewhere at relatively low wages before rising up (blue collar or white collar) is disrupted. The immigrants receive favourable treatment in many ways; not least their own ethnic networks which often outflank more individualistic westerners.

    The community bell curve of appropriate opportunities that - ideally - provides decent employment for the less able as well as the more gifted is devastated as the lower end drifts into welfare, the upper end becomes isolated from the wider community, and the vital middle withdraws and despairs.

    Without mass migration a nation will adjust. Not least the less able become more valuable; absent communitarian competition trust is retained and optimism remains buoyant. If there are problems the community must sort it out, not a Leninist fraternity.

    Germany organised the Euro so that it retained hard money, a competitive currency and access to markets and pools of labour; at devastating costs to much of the rest of the Eurozone. Germany tilts the playing field in its favour, then later demands the rest of Europe pay the price for its artificially boosted Labour demands. Its productivity advances, as noted in these parts, already having evaporated.

    The EU is an machine for the destruction of nations. Overlooked in this crisis is the calamity of European agriculture. Alternatively neglected and coddled the EU's massive support mechanisms have proven hurtful and shortsighted.

    Vive La Révolution!

  41. So after near enough half a century of Malthusian jeremiads on overpopulation, because The Plaaaneeeetttttt! or whatever, the shiftstick is crunched into reverse? Trouble is, only the perceptive, intelligent, law-abiding Europeans and Chinese had been listening to the deafening wall of propaganda noise, and limited their progeny. Sucks to be them.

    • Replies: @anon
    The anti-natal poison coming out of the US media is meant for white people only.
    , @ogunsiron
    Plummeting birth rates affect everyone, actually, even blacks outside of sub-saharan Africa.
  42. So now the Left considers overpopulation to be a good thing. What happened to all those dire warnings in the past?

    Five years ago Angela Merkel said that attempts at creating a multicultural society to have utterly failed. So what gives? Is there someone else pulling the strings here?

    • Replies: @oh its just me
    when they were telling whites not to breed, concern for overpopulation was a good thing. Now it's not.

    As for Merkel - i think she said those things to soothe people, like Cameron's fake anti-EU stance.

    How many times to McCain say he 'got the message' on immigration, only to reneg once he got voted in again?
    , @e
    Five years ago Angela Merkel said that attempts at creating a multicultural society to have utterly failed. So what gives? Is there someone else pulling the strings here?

    Keep watching the news about this wondering when someone will show the video/transcript of her saying this. So far, nothing.
    , @Lagertha
    Everyone in the EU is afraid of being called a Nazi...the imagery of masses of people in stations, refugee camps, getting snagged on razor wire, hapless guards with guns & batons being screamed at by angry hoards of bearded men; squalid trains no doubt smelling of human waste and B.O., slowly making their way somewhere, or just sitting on the tracks. Plus, summer is over now, and the cool rainy days have arrived in central and northern Europe, and migrants appear in rags and thin clothes in most shots.

    The photos from the NYT and many media orgs have been disturbing (often staged to show as many women and babies as possible). I find it ironic that the latest NYT Magazine did not Photoshop hijabs onto the images of those 95% men on those boats, packed in like sardines.

    This is a disaster now, which has no solution. The winter comes quickly to Europe, and that damn rain; no country wants images of babies and children lying in the gutter on some European city street. Merkel and EU dweebs have to stay up all night for weeks to figure out how they are going to shame their citizens to pay for all these people who will need assistance for generations - taxes will go way up, there's no other way.

    Those EU sanctions for Russia seem like a joke now, and Putin gets to have the last laugh as the German economy will be affected, as will all the other EU nations that will be shamed to take 75% more (just guessing) even if some of the countries have 12% unemployment. There's a brain-drain going on at the same time in some of the Nordic countries: their smartest, most educated 25-35 year-olds are opting to go abroad (including the USA) for their careers - so not good as they are the largest tax payers.

    And, I agree that multiculturalism has not not worked in Europe, and diversity is just a "My Little Pony" naive idea that has turned many Europeans against paying social welfare benefits for more idle men, yes, it is mostly men, in their countries. Many migrants carry this phony idea that they are from "war-torn" countries or are escaping persecution - I mean, people make-up stuff all the time. Petty crime, vandalism, rape and now things like knife slashing in IKEA or other public places are just increasing.

    I have never seen NYT print an honest investigative article about who is behind the increase in all the rapes and gang-like attacks by migrant men against native populations. No articles as to how the boundaries are drawn so tightly by the parents of Muslim boys (forget girls, duh), in particular, to not affiliate with native boys, well, yeah, maybe in soccer (and the Turks on the national team has been used thousands of times). But, getting back to Merkel, she will fight tooth and nail to not be called a Nazi.

    I blame the Saudis (well, all the Gulf States) for just about everything these last 2 decades, I always have, since 9/11...even decades earlier. That part of the world is still having their primitive and infantile arguments: Sunni vs. Shiite. Nothing good has been technologically developed (STEM) in that Muslim region, for the greater good of mankind, for 50 years now, when all the EU countries and USA moved on/prospered/advanced after WW2. And, liberals, especially, of all nations, need to start admitting how being female just really sucks in most, if not all, of the middle east. It sucks to be an animal, too - I'm so grossed-out by halal.

    Let's just all blow-off going to that stupid WCup to punish that part of the world. It's about the only thing we can do. Although I am not a fan of FoxSports, I will watch the matches on television...or I'll go to our local bar.

  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’d be very interested to know whether women are aroused by the sight of groups of military age men. Especially groups of men moving in concert into new territory.

    Is anyone familiar with any studies done on that? Perhaps this would be a good question to pose at Chateau Heartiste.

    Relatedly, does polling in Europe and America show any gender/sex disparity in attitudes toward mass immigration?

    • Replies: @spandrell
    Indeed. They seem to like a lot that guy on the photos, who looks like some soccer player.

    Not sure you could get a study published saying: Women get massive tingles when seeing groups of more than 20 young men together looking menacing.
    , @Erik Sieven
    I think this one of the most important issues within this complex. With the ongoing influx in Europe the partner market gets better month after month for young women and worse for young men. Then again middle easterners are not really very desired as romantic partners in Europe
  44. @Anonymous Nephew
    The UK government seem to be trying to use the "something must be done" feeling to get Brit boots back on the ground in Syria. Just what we need.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/07/andrew-mitchell-suggests-british-troops-could-help-create-safe-havens-in-syria-politics-live

    Turning the refugee crisis into a military adventure was bound to come up. It could be done, but neither the UK, US, nor EU has the civic will or virtue to go whole hog and basically colonize and control the Middle East. And I don’t want to start a Fifth Crusade, either: But either EU goes to them or they come to the EU. There’s no way to emerge from this situation without guilt; the passivity of European governments — insofar as they are not motivated by (perhaps dubious) economic considerations — is simply to kick the can down the road.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What about just controlling the waterways with Navy and Air Force? Not that hard to do.
    , @Anonymous
    Military adventurism precipitated this refugee crisis. If not having a refugee crisis was the chief priority, then they wouldn't have promoted intervention and meddling into Libya and Syria. Presumably toppling Libya and Syria are higher priorities than preventing refugee crises.
  45. “You can tell by this Merkel-loving innocent child’s facial width to height ratio (who is beloved by photo editors at both the BBC and the NYT) that he’s someday going to grow up to be some kind of genetic engineering prodigy who will gratefully write huge tax checks to the German government.”

    Love the sarcasm, soothsailer. Fact is, no one really knows, except God, what he will become.

    “On the other hand, the warm feelings of the vibrant young men of Rotherham towards their hosts (and young hostesses) has lasted much longer. Ha ha.”

    Actually, it’s not a laughing matter.

    “This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate & financial interests, is so pro-refugee.”

    Ah, the sweet smell of capitalism. This is how countries were built, by the backs of the lower classes and immigrants and, before it was outlawed (well, by “First World” nations), slaves.

  46. Yeah, but Peston’s long been one of those demanding that the UK (and Europe and the US and Canada and Australia and New Zealand, but not Africa, Asia, or Latin America) allow any Tom, Dick and Harry — or, preferably, Muhammed, Achmed and Abdullah — to freely enter and live in the country.

    He’s a long time supporter of immigration, multiculturalism, the EU, and every other cancer now destroying the West.

    He used to be a Guardian columnist for goodness sakes (for those unfamiliar with the UK Guardian, it makes the NY Times look positively middle-of-the-road).

    No surprises here.

  47. it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere

    Oh, I’m sure an influx of grateful immigrant families would be very useful. Find me some families who will be grateful for long, and good luck doing so.

    They are never grateful for very long. That’s doubly the case for Muslim immigrants. I have yet to find a Muslim immigrant who has thanked me personally for letting him immigrate. Hell, I have yet to find many Muslim immigrants who will even acknowledge my existence at all.

    • Replies: @David
    Here is a 9-person Palestinian family clearly grateful to Great Briton for covering 100% of their living expenses.

    https://youtu.be/vaVHTp2NKXw?t=1571
  48. BBC agit prop.

    These Muslims however are not immigrants but colonists, big difference. Even the Turks Germany imported decades ago never assimilated.

    They’ll set up their no go zones in larger and in increasingly larger areas with their own Muslim police force. Then comes the demands that Germany become more Islamic in it’s laws. In time Germans will find themselves with a homegrown Jihad movement. First manifesting with simply assaults against the Germans, then robberies and rapes, followed by murders.

    The BBC and Krauts have to be quite stupid not to believe that ISIS has not inserted many thousands of it’s fighters among the colonists. Within a year they’ll have recruited jihadist sleeper cells across Europe.

    The Germans will soon regret their collective stupidity. Because they just imported cancer into their state.

  49. @Wilkey
    it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere

    Oh, I'm sure an influx of grateful immigrant families would be very useful. Find me some families who will be grateful for long, and good luck doing so.

    They are never grateful for very long. That's doubly the case for Muslim immigrants. I have yet to find a Muslim immigrant who has thanked me personally for letting him immigrate. Hell, I have yet to find many Muslim immigrants who will even acknowledge my existence at all.

    Here is a 9-person Palestinian family clearly grateful to Great Briton for covering 100% of their living expenses.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    Wow @1:52: benefits capped at 500 pounds per week for families not working. At current exchange rates that's $39,780 per year for doing jack shit. And that's a reduction from whatever they were getting before for doing jack shit.

    And people wonder why working people are angry and fed up. Lawyers and politicians working desk jobs making $200k a year may not get the temptation of $40,000 per year to sit on your ass, but the real middle class understands perfectly well how tempting that can be, and they're surrounded by such people.
    , @Wilkey
    I would add: the benefit cap hits London welfare recipients disproportionately. Sounds like the standard SWPL way of depopulating the big cities of "vibrant populations" and dumping them onto the provinces and 'burbs.
    , @Wilkey
    I really can't stop watching this. One of the best (i.e., worst) parts of the episode is where they show the money collected by a single (white) woman with three (white) children.

    All she has to do is work 16 hours a week at a minimum wage job to collect a weekly income of 811.37 pounds. That's US$64,550 per year for working a 16 hour/week minimum wage job, only about $7,800/year of which is actually earned. And that's the "harsh" policy imposed by the Tory/Liberal Dem coalition government.

  50. @SPMoore8
    Turning the refugee crisis into a military adventure was bound to come up. It could be done, but neither the UK, US, nor EU has the civic will or virtue to go whole hog and basically colonize and control the Middle East. And I don't want to start a Fifth Crusade, either: But either EU goes to them or they come to the EU. There's no way to emerge from this situation without guilt; the passivity of European governments -- insofar as they are not motivated by (perhaps dubious) economic considerations -- is simply to kick the can down the road.

    What about just controlling the waterways with Navy and Air Force? Not that hard to do.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    "Controlling" involves the use of force. The numbers of migrants is very large, far larger, it appears to me, than anything that say Australia has had to confront.

    So what do you do with the migrants, once you winkle them out? Put them into detention camps, or detention holds on ship, take them back to where they came from, offload them, and leave? That would provide endless opportunities for civil disturbances, if not flat out riots, which in turn will require force, and which in turn will cause casualties. Nobody can stomach that reality. Not yet, anyway.

    Frankly I don't think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it, but even if they did, they don't have the political will to use the force that it would require.
  51. Once again this is 100% finance driven. In our system the loan book of the financial system MUST increase or the whole thing will fall down. This is not intuitive so people desperately look for answers everywhere else.

    This happening at the point where loans can no longer be force fed into Greece by German banks is zero surprise. Again, they MUST get a new market or fall over.

    It’s interesting that everyone always gets it right when they blame “elites” for pushing these policies but are never right about why. Elites make most of their money from finance that part should be intuitive but no one gets it.

    I doubt this link will ever be publicly understood because people who are fascinated by the results (Steve) find the cause (finance) boring and distasteful. I enjoy studying the chain but find the idea of writing about it boring.

    • Replies: @spandrell
    Oh please. I can think of a way of making it worth your while. Do you mind sending me an email?

    My address is here:
    https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/about/
    , @SPMoore8
    I'm not sure if we are in agreement or not, but everything depends on the future value of money, and that includes all of our pensions, social security, and government handouts. That is why the 2008 recession was so bad, because there's an effect on the return on investment that goes on for many years beyond that point.

    On the other hand, you can't get a return on investment, and that includes the stock market, if there are no profits, so the idea is to get the profits up front, and keep the growth going at some level, and that's why the need for birth rates or immigration or migrants or refugees or what have you, as long as you can shave a little profit off cheap labor and the purchase of cheap goods.

    At least, that's how it looks to me.
    , @Bleuteaux
    Excellent comment. Here in the Midwest, and everywhere, the housing market goes bonkers for more immigration. High-end, low-end, everything, spread across multiple industries. Everything that has been discussed over and over again on this website.

    I think at least part of this is that your average responsible citizen has either checked out of the whole consumerist mentality the past few years, or simply can't be advertised to death into buying new products. So businesses needs whole new demographics to sell to.

    My area is a test case for all of this "privatize the profits, socialize the costs" attitude of businesses. 60-70% of the kindergarten and preschool children in the wealthiest two public schools are Indian. The ramifications are incredible.
  52. @JohnnyWalker123
    There's some truth in the article.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers. German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    The mass migration of Syrians into Germany gives German employers access to a large pool of low-wage labor. This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate&financial interests, is so pro-refugee. This is an attempt to navigate around the anti-immigration unions and nationalists. Merkel is enabling mass immigration without changing migration laws substantially.

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That'd free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries. Also, since the refugees are young, they won't be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won't be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It's easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn't so easy to push. That's good news for the Syrians and some of the other nationalities, but bad news for Balkans migrants and South Asians (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they'll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers. Since most politicians and business leaders only care for the short-term, it makes sense to be lenient toward refugees for now.

    Once you follow the money, everything makes sense.

    I think just pointing at business’ desire for low wages half misses the mark. We have a somewhat bizarre situation where self-serving greed is blindly filtered through PC ideology, or at least spherical-cow supply and demand graphs. They act as though there is no difference between immigrants from Switzerland, Syria and Somalia, so therefore more people = lower wages + no downsides!

    Openly conspiring to impoversh the working class for a few extra bucks is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but it is absolute, career-destroying, verboten thoughtcrime to think the thought that maybe skyrocketing crime, white flight, corruption and increasingly anti-business politics will be more harmful to one’s business than slightly reduced wages will help.

    It’s really a kind of truly bizarre doublethink – business leaders must act like amoral money-grubbing sociopaths to please the shareholders, but must unquestioningly accept every PC maxim to keep their careers, so they act like an amoral money-grubbing sociopath would if all the PC maxims were actually true.

    It’s the type of thing the Czechs like to write about. Like The Power of the Powerless but more Kafkaesque.

    • Replies: @SFG
    It's just the ability of successful people to pursue their own interests while mouthing the pieties of the day--that is the case throughout history.
    , @Anonymous
    It’s really a kind of truly bizarre doublethink – business leaders must act like amoral money-grubbing sociopaths to please the shareholders, but must unquestioningly accept every PC maxim to keep their careers, so they act like an amoral money-grubbing sociopath would if all the PC maxims were actually true.

    So perhaps that might be considered an internal contradiction in JohnnyWalker's theory. And perhaps should cause us to look elsewhere for an explanation of what we are observing.
    , @Bleuteaux
    "Openly conspiring to impoversh the working class for a few extra bucks is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but it is absolute, career-destroying, verboten thoughtcrime to think the thought that maybe skyrocketing crime, white flight, corruption and increasingly anti-business politics will be more harmful to one’s business than slightly reduced wages will help."

    Not the same thing as the imported underclass, but my well-known company is now at least 20% Indian for salaried employees, and it's a manufacturing company. No one is supposed to question or discuss it, just pretend like it happened randomly, like a particularly windy Summer day.
  53. Classic concern trolling. It’s your fault a policy of racist colonialism is being waged against you because you aren’t having enough children. But don’t worry being occupied will make you rich.

  54. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/07/israel-demolish-arab-buildings-west-bank-un-palestinian?CMP=twt_b-gdnnews

    The West aided and abetted the invasive mass migration of Jews into Palestine and still looks the other way as Jewish ‘migrants’ continue to enter Palestinian territory.
    Palestinians had nothing to do with WWII but somehow got punished the most.

    Now, nations like Hungary had nothing to do with the mess in the Middle but they are being pressured to pay the ultimate price: self-abolishment.

    http://www.rferl.org/content/merkel-migrant-influx-will-change-germany/27231097.html

    Trans-nation. ‘German’ is fluid, and anyone can be it.

  55. On the other hand, many posters argue that population shrinkage is a good thing; it would be good to have some external articles on that, as well as case studies.

    You will be waiting for a long time. It is taken as a fact in economic circles that GDP growth is somehow the most important thing in the whole world so naturally population growth being universally good is a given.

    Population shrinkage accompanied by automation will improve the quality of life for everybody but how can you prove it with hard number when most of the benefits are in things like more time to spend with you family and not anything an economist would consider valuable. Less population means less pollution of the environment, more open space for wild life and on and on. Try to quantify that compared to the number of houses that have to be built to house the new immigrants that nobody but the real estate developer wants.

  56. So is there any political party in Germany willing to take issue with this abomination of justice?

  57. Flock and Awe.

  58. @Chrisnonymous
    The costs of mistakes, lost stock and merchandise, lawsuits, absenteeism, etc are all real costs. I find it hard to believe that German employers really think Syrians and Germans are interchangeable labor inputs.

    Moreover, I find it very difficult to believe that German employers can't make calculations about the kind of country their children will inherit.

    I think it's more plausible that this is a case of social signaling/ identity--goodwhites vs badwhites, as Derb says.

    Some of it likely is the social signaling you claim, but businessmen putting profits ahead of the public good are a pretty common thing. They’ll get cheaper labor, even if they lose a little in the areas you cite. And maybe help weaken Germany’s powerful labor unions.

  59. @snorlax
    I think just pointing at business' desire for low wages half misses the mark. We have a somewhat bizarre situation where self-serving greed is blindly filtered through PC ideology, or at least spherical-cow supply and demand graphs. They act as though there is no difference between immigrants from Switzerland, Syria and Somalia, so therefore more people = lower wages + no downsides!

    Openly conspiring to impoversh the working class for a few extra bucks is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but it is absolute, career-destroying, verboten thoughtcrime to think the thought that maybe skyrocketing crime, white flight, corruption and increasingly anti-business politics will be more harmful to one's business than slightly reduced wages will help.

    It's really a kind of truly bizarre doublethink - business leaders must act like amoral money-grubbing sociopaths to please the shareholders, but must unquestioningly accept every PC maxim to keep their careers, so they act like an amoral money-grubbing sociopath would if all the PC maxims were actually true.

    It's the type of thing the Czechs like to write about. Like The Power of the Powerless but more Kafkaesque.

    It’s just the ability of successful people to pursue their own interests while mouthing the pieties of the day–that is the case throughout history.

  60. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In my opinion Angela Merkel is breaking her oath to keep the German people from danger by importing large number of low-iq would-be-jihadists for some donations from German manufacturers.

    Fortunately, the German parlimentary systems provides one hope: In March 2016 the parliaments for Baden-Würrtemberg (a political heavyweight) and famously xenophobic Saxony-Anhalt are being elected. Since there are multiple political parties and you only need 5% to get into parliament, it will be interesting to see, who will get some seats there.

    I have some predictions for Saxony-Anhalt:
    -the NPD, the most right-wing party in Germany already scored 4.6% in 2011 and therefore only needs to better their score by 0.4%. The party might even get a double-digit percentage of the votes, if the situation has further escalated.

    -the AFD and ALFA, the new party of former AFD-head Bernd Lucke will also be on the ballot.
    These two parties are already campaigning against “refugees”, so if they manage to publish some inconvenient facts into their campaign like the fact, that 80% of all accepted “refugees” live on welfare even a decade after they came into the country or the fact that according to one survey 70% of all muslims in Germany think that the Scharia is more important than the German constitution, it will be fun.

  61. @Anonymous
    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think

    asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/135073-refugee-crisis/#entry7317919

    September 7, 2015 at 12:26 pm GMT
    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think

    Of course people on a GoT website want to be Merkel Mother of Refugees. They have such important feelz, they must let everyone know how pure hearted and generous they are!

    Of course anyone of them could save hundreds of third world lives a year by getting an evening job and donating the money they are paid to a charity. Or even just stop eating at restaurants. But they will never do it because everything they are saying is empty status signalling b*llshit.

  62. @George
    1) They will take up space in potentially vacant real estate.

    2) "genetic engineering prodigy " How about adequate carpenter. Being from NYC I can tell you when the Soviet Union collapsed there were Soviet military officers doing normal sorts of construction work. Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People's Paradise.

    Lots of refugees also have credentials that can be used. All sorts of scientists from the Soviet Union ended up here. In the case of the Syrians, they all look like svelte modern types whose families could afford to pay their way to Germany even though they must have lost fortunes due to the war.

    Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People’s Paradise.

    So you’re for consigning American public school graduates to unemployment?

    For a smoother cheaper driveway?

    You’re an awful person.

    1) They will take up space in potentially vacant real estate.

    And after you’ve made the young unemployed you want to push up their housing costs? How delightful.

    Do you hate your children? Do you have any appropriate feelings that involve people you actually know or do you just blurt out abstract feelz about people whom you’ve never met so that you appear virtuous and feel smugly self-satisfied?

    There is an empty void where your soul should be.

  63. http://www.radixjournal.com/journal/2015/9/6/after-the-deluge

    There are emotions that make a person strong.
    There are emotions that make a person weak.

    Europe has chosen the saphead emotions of a boo-boo-baby.

  64. @jill
    "Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated - just the sort of people we are looking for" Daimler CEO

    https://twitter.com/SPIEGELONLINE/status/640539865650712576

    “Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated – just the sort of people we are looking for” Daimler CEO

    I don’t blame the CEOs for being greedy. I expect him to be greedy. I do blame the dumb spineless politicians for listening to him.

  65. @David
    Here is a 9-person Palestinian family clearly grateful to Great Briton for covering 100% of their living expenses.

    https://youtu.be/vaVHTp2NKXw?t=1571

    Wow @1:52: benefits capped at 500 pounds per week for families not working. At current exchange rates that’s $39,780 per year for doing jack shit. And that’s a reduction from whatever they were getting before for doing jack shit.

    And people wonder why working people are angry and fed up. Lawyers and politicians working desk jobs making $200k a year may not get the temptation of $40,000 per year to sit on your ass, but the real middle class understands perfectly well how tempting that can be, and they’re surrounded by such people.

  66. Let’s not discount that many of these military age male “refugees” are war criminals and deserters trying to avoid justice.

  67. @David
    Here is a 9-person Palestinian family clearly grateful to Great Briton for covering 100% of their living expenses.

    https://youtu.be/vaVHTp2NKXw?t=1571

    I would add: the benefit cap hits London welfare recipients disproportionately. Sounds like the standard SWPL way of depopulating the big cities of “vibrant populations” and dumping them onto the provinces and ‘burbs.

    • Replies: @anon
    That's exactly it. They piled millions of immigrants up in the cities - massively compressed into minimal housing so most people in the country weren't affected - and now they're unleashing them into the smaller towns like opening a dam.
  68. @tanabear
    So now the Left considers overpopulation to be a good thing. What happened to all those dire warnings in the past?

    Five years ago Angela Merkel said that attempts at creating a multicultural society to have utterly failed. So what gives? Is there someone else pulling the strings here?

    when they were telling whites not to breed, concern for overpopulation was a good thing. Now it’s not.

    As for Merkel – i think she said those things to soothe people, like Cameron’s fake anti-EU stance.

    How many times to McCain say he ‘got the message’ on immigration, only to reneg once he got voted in again?

  69. Here’s a headsup about the huge tax windfall the German government can look forward to.

    Note the second graph down in that article. In Great Britain only about 42% of Bengali and Afghan immigrants are employed (and that figure includes part-time employment). Barely 30% of Somali immigrants are employed, and just 10% of Somalis have full-time jobs.

    Meanwhile 80% of Polish, Lithuanian, and Kiwi immigrants have jobs.

  70. revibrantize Roman demographics

    The Roman Empire was rather vibrant for most (all?) of its existence. Actual Romans were only a small minority. The Roman Empire is not really a good example for some idiotic ethnicist nationalism.

    @ Anonymous:

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    http://www.sachverstaendigenrat-wirtschaft.de/fileadmin/dateiablage/download/zeitreihen/ZR088.xlsx
    Wages in Germany in 2014 were on average at least 10% higher than in 2010.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn’t “German industry” first prefer someone closer by?

    A lot of eg. Spaniards came to Germany in recent years. EU citizens of course get preferential treatment, but obviously not enough are interested to leave their home countries for good. Could be an indication that the situation in Southern Europe is not as dire as it is often painted.

    This doesn’t increase the supply of highly paid workers, it only increases the supply of construction workers.

    Nowadays, more Germans enter the job market on a higher level than before, eg. the percentage of university graduates has grown a lot. So, there is some room at least at the lower end of the job market. There are already service sectors & industries complaining about a lack of workers. & since the German society is ageing, this will probably only get worse in the coming years (if the economy keeps going).

  71. @Anonymous
    Canada accommodates 1 percent of its population as immigrants per year, Australia is around 2 percent, and 90 percent of those are nonwhites.

    They can learn their lesson the hard way.

  72. @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    Yup.

    Nothing wrong with a bit of adultress stoning and 12 year old niece marrying.

    • Agree: Nico
  73. @Sean

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were “very moving” and “breathtaking”.
     
    Exactly. No Germans in the media say this is self interest in any way. Germany is doing this for moral reasons, yet the BBC's economic editor is saying it is self interest. Are these hundreds maybe thousands of Germans welcoming trains packed with migrants and doing volunteer work for the refugee/immigrants supposed to be actors? The ones offering to use their own homes to put the migrants up, are those German volunteers doing that from some economic motive. It is an obviously false analysis.

    60% or more are against settling middle easterners. The Germans do not consent.

  74. @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    Steve has written before how the left hand of the bell curve is more reliant on a healthy culture to be able to make good decisions. Societal changes since the 1960s may have been liberating to elites, but they’ve been extremely destructive to the working class.

    Coming Apart by Charles Murray develops a similar argument.

  75. I must go to the same abused joke. > That what the German social welfare system loses on each Syrian/Sub Saharan asylum seeker and the family he imports in, they will make up in volume.
    As soon as they bring in family it is 100% assured they will be taking from the German social welfare system. But who knows? They are revved up after their long treks and may find German girls to shack up with. Or they can help out those 30-35 something childless German women with advanced degrees to get their grove back without them having to spend on a Caribbean vacation. These days their vacation destination (sex with swarthy and darker guys) comes to them. Eat, pray, love and travel to have sex with swarthy guys is so passe!…these days it can be done right at home in non-vibrant Germany, home to countless minarets.

  76. @Mike1
    Once again this is 100% finance driven. In our system the loan book of the financial system MUST increase or the whole thing will fall down. This is not intuitive so people desperately look for answers everywhere else.

    This happening at the point where loans can no longer be force fed into Greece by German banks is zero surprise. Again, they MUST get a new market or fall over.

    It's interesting that everyone always gets it right when they blame "elites" for pushing these policies but are never right about why. Elites make most of their money from finance that part should be intuitive but no one gets it.

    I doubt this link will ever be publicly understood because people who are fascinated by the results (Steve) find the cause (finance) boring and distasteful. I enjoy studying the chain but find the idea of writing about it boring.

    Oh please. I can think of a way of making it worth your while. Do you mind sending me an email?

    My address is here:
    https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/about/

  77. @Anonymous
    I'd be very interested to know whether women are aroused by the sight of groups of military age men. Especially groups of men moving in concert into new territory.

    Is anyone familiar with any studies done on that? Perhaps this would be a good question to pose at Chateau Heartiste.

    Relatedly, does polling in Europe and America show any gender/sex disparity in attitudes toward mass immigration?

    Indeed. They seem to like a lot that guy on the photos, who looks like some soccer player.

    Not sure you could get a study published saying: Women get massive tingles when seeing groups of more than 20 young men together looking menacing.

  78. @Anonymous
    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn't "German industry" first prefer someone closer by?

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries.

    How many years would be required for this to take effect, for workers who are "freed up" to get trained to "move up the ladder"? Wouldn't "German industry" prefer to immigrants already trained for "specialized industries"?

    Also, since the refugees are young, they won’t be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Don't many of them have families? Won't it be quicker for them to have families than to train a blue collar German for a "specialized industry"?

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won’t be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It’s easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn’t so easy to push.

    Why can't the unions block all "refugees"?

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they’ll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers.

    So a Syrian displaces a German from a construction job and the German construction worker goes on to plausibly compete for a "highly-paid" job in a "specialized industry"? Don't they alreaddy do this now though? I mean, if it's so easy to enter a high paying job, wouldn't German construction workers already be angling toward one and hence be increasing the supply?

    This doesn't increase the supply of highly paid workers, it only increases the supply of construction workers.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn’t “German industry” first prefer someone closer by?

    Great point. Now that citizens of EU member states can move from one EU country to another, like a guy from Kansas moving to California, German industry should have no problem getting idle hands from one part of Europe into Germany.

    • Disagree: International Jew
  79. So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden…

    Has there been any more inarguably “particularly useful” influx in this respect than Ashkenazi Jews into the Levant?

    Those crazy Germans should have just kept their Jews.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Has there been any more inarguably “particularly useful” influx in this respect than Ashkenazi Jews into the Levant?

    B- b- but... they made the desert bloom!
  80. @Mike1
    Once again this is 100% finance driven. In our system the loan book of the financial system MUST increase or the whole thing will fall down. This is not intuitive so people desperately look for answers everywhere else.

    This happening at the point where loans can no longer be force fed into Greece by German banks is zero surprise. Again, they MUST get a new market or fall over.

    It's interesting that everyone always gets it right when they blame "elites" for pushing these policies but are never right about why. Elites make most of their money from finance that part should be intuitive but no one gets it.

    I doubt this link will ever be publicly understood because people who are fascinated by the results (Steve) find the cause (finance) boring and distasteful. I enjoy studying the chain but find the idea of writing about it boring.

    I’m not sure if we are in agreement or not, but everything depends on the future value of money, and that includes all of our pensions, social security, and government handouts. That is why the 2008 recession was so bad, because there’s an effect on the return on investment that goes on for many years beyond that point.

    On the other hand, you can’t get a return on investment, and that includes the stock market, if there are no profits, so the idea is to get the profits up front, and keep the growth going at some level, and that’s why the need for birth rates or immigration or migrants or refugees or what have you, as long as you can shave a little profit off cheap labor and the purchase of cheap goods.

    At least, that’s how it looks to me.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    if there are no profits, so the idea is to get the profits up front, and keep the growth going at some level,

    And if there is no money in the hands of the people to buy the stock then what is it worth? Where does that money come from considering that the dividends paid out by stocks now only seem high because the bank is paying nothing. If you expect those dividends to be the source of the money to buy the stock, you would need to wait 50 years for it to make sense.

    My grandparents left a house to my uncle. He lived in an area where you almost can't give them away because the jobs are gone and the mines closed. If that house and land was in California it would be worth 6 times what it is there. Stocks can have a similar fate. In fact they did in the 70s when stocks routinely traded at 1/2 their book value. This was the reason the LBO craze of the 80s got underway.
  81. @David
    Here is a 9-person Palestinian family clearly grateful to Great Briton for covering 100% of their living expenses.

    https://youtu.be/vaVHTp2NKXw?t=1571

    I really can’t stop watching this. One of the best (i.e., worst) parts of the episode is where they show the money collected by a single (white) woman with three (white) children.

    All she has to do is work 16 hours a week at a minimum wage job to collect a weekly income of 811.37 pounds. That’s US$64,550 per year for working a 16 hour/week minimum wage job, only about $7,800/year of which is actually earned. And that’s the “harsh” policy imposed by the Tory/Liberal Dem coalition government.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    All she has to do is work 16 hours a week at a minimum wage job to collect a weekly income of 811.37 pounds. That’s US$64,550 per year for working a 16 hour minimum wage job. And that’s the “harsh” policy imposed by the Tory/Liberal Dem coalition government.
     
    No, it's much worse than that: (1) She also gets the wages from the part-time job, and (2) The benefits are not taxed, so the receipt of $64,550 in benefits is the the equivalent of a much higher pre-tax income.
  82. @Anonymous
    What about just controlling the waterways with Navy and Air Force? Not that hard to do.

    “Controlling” involves the use of force. The numbers of migrants is very large, far larger, it appears to me, than anything that say Australia has had to confront.

    So what do you do with the migrants, once you winkle them out? Put them into detention camps, or detention holds on ship, take them back to where they came from, offload them, and leave? That would provide endless opportunities for civil disturbances, if not flat out riots, which in turn will require force, and which in turn will cause casualties. Nobody can stomach that reality. Not yet, anyway.

    Frankly I don’t think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it, but even if they did, they don’t have the political will to use the force that it would require.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Frankly I don’t think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it, but even if they did, they don’t have the political will to use the force that it would require.
     
    They would prefer that the people do it themselves ... and they will, eventually.
    , @anon
    The navy tows the boats back where they came from and then scuttles them.

    Very easy.
    , @Wilkey
    "Frankly I don’t think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it..."

    Oh bullshit. Rescuing the ships requires far more manpower, because once the migrants know you will accept them, the more that come. Tow a few boats back to Libya and they would stop coming entirely - problem solved, done, over. We know this. Australia has done this, and their solution has worked. The current migrant population has exploded because European navies are rescuing them in the Mediterranean.
  83. Cryptogenic [AKA "Mr. Zeepie"] says:
    @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    Unfortunately this is the truth. English proles seem to grow increasingly retarded-looking. Drool Brittania. Still, they have a long way to go before they match the genetic caries of their 75 IQ grateful guests.

    Ever notice how the rhetoric of the greatness of immigrants makes them sound like vitamins? They’re always “infusing,” “energizing” and giving “boosts” to “tired” and “old” societies.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Vitamins! So funny! remember Vitameatavegimin?
    , @anon
    More or less retarded than these?

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/07/aylesbury-child-abuse-ring-six-men-handed-long-jail-terms
  84. Does anyone know whether people of Hebrew ancestry had any influence, directly or indirectly, on Roman decisionmaking as to immigration into and citizenship in the Empire.

  85. @Ed
    Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she's inviting to Germany will change the nation.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-merkel-says-record-refugee-influx-change-nation-102904757.html

    "What we are experiencing now is that will occupy and change our country in coming years," she said after 20,000 migrants arrived at the weekend alone.

    "We want the change to be positive, and we believe we can accomplish that," she added.

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were "very moving" and "breathtaking".

    "That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history," she said, expressing joy that "Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope".

    And vill goot Germans go alung wid her?

  86. @Ed
    Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she's inviting to Germany will change the nation.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-merkel-says-record-refugee-influx-change-nation-102904757.html

    "What we are experiencing now is that will occupy and change our country in coming years," she said after 20,000 migrants arrived at the weekend alone.

    "We want the change to be positive, and we believe we can accomplish that," she added.

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were "very moving" and "breathtaking".

    "That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history," she said, expressing joy that "Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope".

    A financier friend in Germany sent me an email of which this is a part:

    I am not sure if there is any logical, eg economic, explanation. I think it is more a case of illogical political correctness, where Merkel gets praised by CNN and Bono, but really has very little support amongst ordinary Germans, most of whom have not had a real pay rise for 15 years (see Schroeders reforms to make Germany more competitive).

    It will be interesting to see what happens next, ie now that the television pictures of migrants being welcomed in Germany have been seen. Will the numbers on the move massively increase, and if so what will Merkel do? Will she invite two million in 2016?

    Hungarians are of course the bad guys, ie the only country doing what countries are supposed to do, and control their borders. I was talking to a Bulgarian on Sunday, and rather interestingly she said that everyone has always assumed that East European want to join the West, but that she now thinks they might find a tough guy like Putin less threatening- as he can at least control his borders.

    Germany has also arrogantly invited in Syrians on behalf of other EU countries- which it should not be doing.

    Of course everyone here is attacking the UK at the moment, but if it comes to a new military campaign on the ground in Libya or Syria it will be of course British soldiers right at the front doing the fighting.

    • Replies: @Ed
    Interesting that you mention Putin. Does anyone think it's a mere coincidence that the same week this "crisis" has escalated he sends more firepower to Assad? Millions of refugees pouring into Northern Europe especially Germany would be to his advantage. If he can't beat the West, he can just weaken it enough to extract what he wants from them.

    Where there is chaos, there is opportunity.
  87. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @snorlax
    I think just pointing at business' desire for low wages half misses the mark. We have a somewhat bizarre situation where self-serving greed is blindly filtered through PC ideology, or at least spherical-cow supply and demand graphs. They act as though there is no difference between immigrants from Switzerland, Syria and Somalia, so therefore more people = lower wages + no downsides!

    Openly conspiring to impoversh the working class for a few extra bucks is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but it is absolute, career-destroying, verboten thoughtcrime to think the thought that maybe skyrocketing crime, white flight, corruption and increasingly anti-business politics will be more harmful to one's business than slightly reduced wages will help.

    It's really a kind of truly bizarre doublethink - business leaders must act like amoral money-grubbing sociopaths to please the shareholders, but must unquestioningly accept every PC maxim to keep their careers, so they act like an amoral money-grubbing sociopath would if all the PC maxims were actually true.

    It's the type of thing the Czechs like to write about. Like The Power of the Powerless but more Kafkaesque.

    It’s really a kind of truly bizarre doublethink – business leaders must act like amoral money-grubbing sociopaths to please the shareholders, but must unquestioningly accept every PC maxim to keep their careers, so they act like an amoral money-grubbing sociopath would if all the PC maxims were actually true.

    So perhaps that might be considered an internal contradiction in JohnnyWalker’s theory. And perhaps should cause us to look elsewhere for an explanation of what we are observing.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Nobody expects business leaders to accept every PC maxim. If this was true, a large percentage of corporate execs would be black and Latino. Silicon Valley would be hiring huge numbers of graduates of historically black colleges. The top investment banks and law firms would be minting huge numbers of NAM partners. Given that none of this has happened, I'd assume that business leaders are well aware of the shortcomings of some ethnic groups and not under that much pressure to change their thinking.

    Yes, it's true that business leaders must mouth PC in public, but that doesn't mean much. In public, we're not allowed to tell women that they're fat and ugly. In private, nobody questions why men chase hot girls and ignore the big girls. Bill Gates says he thinks every child is a learner, but nobody cares that he hires huge numbers of Indians and has made no meaningful attempt to hire blacks.
  88. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @SPMoore8
    "Controlling" involves the use of force. The numbers of migrants is very large, far larger, it appears to me, than anything that say Australia has had to confront.

    So what do you do with the migrants, once you winkle them out? Put them into detention camps, or detention holds on ship, take them back to where they came from, offload them, and leave? That would provide endless opportunities for civil disturbances, if not flat out riots, which in turn will require force, and which in turn will cause casualties. Nobody can stomach that reality. Not yet, anyway.

    Frankly I don't think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it, but even if they did, they don't have the political will to use the force that it would require.

    Frankly I don’t think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it, but even if they did, they don’t have the political will to use the force that it would require.

    They would prefer that the people do it themselves … and they will, eventually.

  89. @Anonymous
    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think

    asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/135073-refugee-crisis/#entry7317919

    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think

    asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/135073-refugee-crisis/#entry7317919

    Presenting a tiny sample of English-speaking and (presumably) White people as the norm reveals you to be a stupid racist.

    Ninety percent of the people in this world agree with us (including maybe 40% of the people in your linked thread).

  90. @tanabear
    So now the Left considers overpopulation to be a good thing. What happened to all those dire warnings in the past?

    Five years ago Angela Merkel said that attempts at creating a multicultural society to have utterly failed. So what gives? Is there someone else pulling the strings here?

    Five years ago Angela Merkel said that attempts at creating a multicultural society to have utterly failed. So what gives? Is there someone else pulling the strings here?

    Keep watching the news about this wondering when someone will show the video/transcript of her saying this. So far, nothing.

  91. @Anonymous
    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn't "German industry" first prefer someone closer by?

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries.

    How many years would be required for this to take effect, for workers who are "freed up" to get trained to "move up the ladder"? Wouldn't "German industry" prefer to immigrants already trained for "specialized industries"?

    Also, since the refugees are young, they won’t be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Don't many of them have families? Won't it be quicker for them to have families than to train a blue collar German for a "specialized industry"?

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won’t be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It’s easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn’t so easy to push.

    Why can't the unions block all "refugees"?

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they’ll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers.

    So a Syrian displaces a German from a construction job and the German construction worker goes on to plausibly compete for a "highly-paid" job in a "specialized industry"? Don't they alreaddy do this now though? I mean, if it's so easy to enter a high paying job, wouldn't German construction workers already be angling toward one and hence be increasing the supply?

    This doesn't increase the supply of highly paid workers, it only increases the supply of construction workers.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.

    This explains, but not excuses, the German resentment toward Greece and Spain. They had a long boom in the 2000’s that Germany missed out in.

    The rebuilding of the East also meant that West Germans had to pay much more in taxes than they received in government transfers and services. As a result, with weak wage growth and high taxes to pay for the rebuilding, actual German households don’t have much private savings to show for their two decades of austerity. Average private net worth is about twice as high in Northern Italy than Germany.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Public subsidy, private profit. The Euro is an export promotion scheme for German business that enables than to d- industrialise the rest of Europe. German taxpayers foot the bill, and though resentful they can't do anything about it. Germany props up French banks that loaned money to Italy.
    , @Anonymous

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?
     
    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.


    Sorry, mate, still not seeing it. Where is the evidence that Germany is suffering from a labor shortage?
    , @Anonymous

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?
     
    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.

    Sorry, mate, still not seeing it. Where is the evidence that Germany is suffering from a labor shortage?
  92. @SPMoore8
    Sounds like the BBC Economics Editor is providing precisely the kind of justification for this refugee influx that I surmised this weekend. I realize most people here think the consequences of this will be dire (and in the US, too), and they may be right, but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.

    On the other hand, many posters argue that population shrinkage is a good thing; it would be good to have some external articles on that, as well as case studies. (Black Death being an obvious but radical example, but describing a very different economy.)

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won't do that to marry or have children.

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.

    If you were in charge of the government and really believed that your nation was in danger due to a declining population, what would you do? First, you could easily determine that with modern medicine life spans were increasing, infant mortality was decreasing and there were no famines or wars to explain the drop. So you would readily ascertain it was a decline in birth rates that was to blame.

    With this in mind, what policies would you pursue? Would you try to implement policies to increase the birth rate of your own people, who obviously are acclimated to your nation and culture, or would you immediately seek to demographically alter your country by bringing in mass numbers of alien people with little to zero cultural affinity with your nation?

    Now ask yourself why the government is not only not trying to address this decline in birth rates among the natives, but is doing things to exacerbate it. For example, the government and the culture promote the idea that women have to have a career. As a result millions of women go to university to get questionable diplomas that put them into massive debt that they will have to spend the better part of their career working off. Though women have always worked, generally before or after child bearing, getting into massive debt early on forces them to continue to work through the best part of their child bearing age.

    If a diminishing population were the real problem, the government would determine that something, such as the culture, the tax burden or the overall quality of life in the nation was a detriment to couples having more children and would actively try to address it. But instead they immediately resort to the mass migration of alien peoples which only seems to exacerbate the overall quality of life issues that were causing declining birth rates to begin with.

    Don’t fall for the “economic” arguments for MASS immigration. Just like the old argument that we needed immigrants to pay taxes turned out to be false given that we are importing net tax consumers, this issue that our birth rates are declining is just a shield they have grabbed to hide their real intentions. And to me, after peeling away all their arguments, clearly seems to be the demographic change of European nations.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success. The people you most want having kids are probably the least influenced by financial incentives. It's probably not so hard to cut the birthrate of the sort of people you'd rather *not* have kids (like teenagers and high-school dropouts) by providing free long-acting birth control. Mostly, they didn't want kids, so you're helping them do what they wanted to so but weren't together enough to manage on their own. But the kind you want having kids (smart educated professionals) have more demanding constraints on when they can have kids (grad school, residency, tenure, partner, crazy startup schedule) and also have more money and choices. Having three kids means detracting from the singular focus needed for success. And by their nature, they're more than capable of controlling how many kids they have.
    , @SPMoore8
    I just don't see that there's a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don't think there's a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico. I think it's just shortsighted love of profit.

    No question our cultures (US and EU) devalues children. Women have little security under current divorce regimes, men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.

    On the contrary, the "good life" is always expressed in terms of having "high status" (good schools) and "high income." Nothing else matters, and anything less is failure. You can even see this with people who have children: they have to be high status, and high earners. Nothing else matters.

    It's like the whole business with "careers". Nobody gives a sh*t when you are 65 and you announce that you used to be a VP for whatever at whosis bank. That wasn't a career, that was a job. The same applies to most careers jobs. They are jobs.

    But whatever. I don't think there's any master mind pulling the strings so I don't think there's any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.
    At least, not on a large scale.
    , @Dew
    The key to slowing down the demographic change is lowering the birthrates of the immigrants and weakening their cultures. Also focus on the children of immigrants and try to weaken family ties.

    This levels the playing field. Just use similar methods that have been used on gullible whites for decades. Maybe add some more.

  93. @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    What is the average English working class white like?

    • Replies: @Nico
    Good one. I suspect that you suspect the same thing I do, namely that our interlocutor is not the sort to touch white proles (or any proles for that matter with a ten-mile pole.

    I was in Berry last weekend, as I often am. I admit there were certainly some frightful faces in the towns and I wouldn't want to be out alone or with a small and conspicuously bourgeois contingent of friends after dark in the village or off my friends' properties. Nevertheless, the imminent fear of the "unknown" that I get any night OR day that is bad enough that I forced to trek up to Seine Saint-Denis was conspicuously absent.

    Bottom line: Hindu tribesmen? NO THANKS. At least there's some hope for white proles to become something I find recognizable if they can be persuaded not to put Cognac in the baby bottle or marry traceable cousins for about two generations.

    , @Ed
    Not sure if they qualify as "working class" since so few actually work but I think this example is close.

    https://youtu.be/XbaV4cz9zPM
    , @Wilkey
    "Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool."

    They aren't. Only about 40% of Afghan and Bangladeshi immigrant adults living in Britain are employed - and that includes part-time work. Meanwhile New Zealand immigrants, who are mostly of Anglo-Celtic stock, have an 80% employment rate.

    Great Britain may have a large, sad white underclass, but it did not get to be the 19th richest country in the world (per capita income) because of a large, dumb, lazy population. Same can be said for its offshoots. The Anglosphere countries - Canada (#15), USA (#10), Australia (#5) and New Zealand (#21), Ireland (#11) - all do very, very well by any economic measure. Only Germanic/Scandinavian countries do consistently better.

    The underclasses of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India are proportionally far larger, far dumber, and far more pathetic than anything Great Britain can muster.

  94. @George
    1) They will take up space in potentially vacant real estate.

    2) "genetic engineering prodigy " How about adequate carpenter. Being from NYC I can tell you when the Soviet Union collapsed there were Soviet military officers doing normal sorts of construction work. Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People's Paradise.

    Lots of refugees also have credentials that can be used. All sorts of scientists from the Soviet Union ended up here. In the case of the Syrians, they all look like svelte modern types whose families could afford to pay their way to Germany even though they must have lost fortunes due to the war.

    they all look like svelte modern types whose families could afford to pay their way to Germany even though they must have lost fortunes due to the war.

    Why would you think their families have lost fortunes?

  95. @jill
    "Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated - just the sort of people we are looking for" Daimler CEO

    https://twitter.com/SPIEGELONLINE/status/640539865650712576

    “Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated – just the sort of people we are looking for” Daimler CEO

    Um, aren’t there millions of men in Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, and Ukraine who would fit this description and who cannot find jobs?

    • Replies: @BB753
    Sure, but they won't work for slave wages like refugees will. At least part of the refugees, the rest will live off social benefits. The latter is fine and dandy for business. Let tax- payers foot the bill.
  96. @yaqub the mad scientist
    "That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries."

    Challenge: I've heard this claim for 25 years in regards to the US. Can you identify where this actually happened here?

    I thought all those unemployed people from Spain, Greece, and Portugal were already heading to Germany to take those jobs. Wouldn’t they provide a lot of lower-wage labor already?

    The real reason for taking on refugees is for humanitarian reasons. And this is reasonable, within some limits, just like giving some money to charity is reasonable. But that means deciding how many refugees make sense to take, and choosing the ones you are willing to have–not taking any group that can riot at a train station and get a lot of TV time.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The real reason for taking on refugees is for humanitarian reasons. And this is reasonable, within some limits, just like giving some money to charity is reasonable. But that means deciding how many refugees make sense to take, and choosing the ones you are willing to have–not taking any group that can riot at a train station and get a lot of TV time.

    The ones arriving don't look especially needy. In fact, they look "svelte" and affluent.

    And maybe we should only take in women, their being the most vulnerable.
    , @Sean
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/more-than-11000-icelanders-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees-to-help-european-crisis-10480505.html

    Iceland has already a reputation for financial acumen second to none, now it is adding even more to its enviable human resources. One can only envy their inevitable success.
    , @carol
    Yes, for example, the Vatican is limiting its generosity to housing two families only.

    Very prudent, that.
    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    Still waiting to see if anyone wants to serve up an actual answer to my question. I'm pretty confident there won't be.
  97. @Sean

    I’m looking at a German website called Flüchtlinge Willkommen, that’s “Refugees Welcome.” Quote from the home page:


    Warum können geflüchtete Menschen in Deutschland nicht einfach in WGs wohnen statt in Massenunterkünften?

    Translation: “Why shouldn’t refugees in Germany just be able to live in shared apartments instead of mass accommodation?” The website goes on to urge Germans to open their apartments to refugees

     

    First, Open Borders; next, Open Apartments.

  98. The most effective way to increase the native birthrate would be to make spacious houses available at affordable prices to young married couples. It would be better than just giving them money. But that’s difficult to do in the crowded countries of northwestern Europe because property/land prices are so high.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    You might be right, but I note that Japan has taken some steps toward subsidizing family formation without very good results.

    I think there is a lot of hard-to-pin-down groupthink involved in birthrates. Single people talk to each other about problems and trade-offs and create a lot of anxiety over children and marriage, then balk.

    The fact that births are higher among lower IQ and less educated groups should indicate that there is a positive cintribution to short time horizons. I think this is partly why there was a baby boom post-wwii: people were just happy to be alive, not worrying overmuch about retirement, affording vacations, investing in education, etc
  99. @Anonymous
    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think

    asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/135073-refugee-crisis/#entry7317919

    You guys are fringe in your views on thus matter. Read the below thread to see what normal people think

    And half the replies don’t agree with those “normal people.” Btw, your normal person is my blinkered, bleeding heart.

  100. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @NOTA
    I thought all those unemployed people from Spain, Greece, and Portugal were already heading to Germany to take those jobs. Wouldn't they provide a lot of lower-wage labor already?

    The real reason for taking on refugees is for humanitarian reasons. And this is reasonable, within some limits, just like giving some money to charity is reasonable. But that means deciding how many refugees make sense to take, and choosing the ones you are willing to have--not taking any group that can riot at a train station and get a lot of TV time.

    The real reason for taking on refugees is for humanitarian reasons. And this is reasonable, within some limits, just like giving some money to charity is reasonable. But that means deciding how many refugees make sense to take, and choosing the ones you are willing to have–not taking any group that can riot at a train station and get a lot of TV time.

    The ones arriving don’t look especially needy. In fact, they look “svelte” and affluent.

    And maybe we should only take in women, their being the most vulnerable.

  101. @MLK

    So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden...
     
    Has there been any more inarguably "particularly useful" influx in this respect than Ashkenazi Jews into the Levant?

    Those crazy Germans should have just kept their Jews.

    Has there been any more inarguably “particularly useful” influx in this respect than Ashkenazi Jews into the Levant?

    B- b- but… they made the desert bloom!

  102. @Diversity Heretic
    The argument that Germany "needs" more workers fails for two reasons. One is that a racially and culturally different group is unlikely to cheerfully support other people's parents with their taxes. Secondly, the economy is changing. Automation increasingly displaces people and not just in traditional blue collar jobs; many office jobs can be computerized. A declining population may be an advantage under such circumstances. As I've said before on other blogs, I remember the U.S. of 1960 (population about 170 million). It didn't seem empty!

    I predict in 10-20 years the Left will come out for Social Security means-testing and cuts. The Left will argue that it is racist to tax disproportionately non-White workers to pay for the benefits of disproportionately White retirees.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    it's already happening in some of the Nordic countries. My mother, for instance, was means tested years ago, and receives very little.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  103. @iSteveFan

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.
     
    If you were in charge of the government and really believed that your nation was in danger due to a declining population, what would you do? First, you could easily determine that with modern medicine life spans were increasing, infant mortality was decreasing and there were no famines or wars to explain the drop. So you would readily ascertain it was a decline in birth rates that was to blame.

    With this in mind, what policies would you pursue? Would you try to implement policies to increase the birth rate of your own people, who obviously are acclimated to your nation and culture, or would you immediately seek to demographically alter your country by bringing in mass numbers of alien people with little to zero cultural affinity with your nation?

    Now ask yourself why the government is not only not trying to address this decline in birth rates among the natives, but is doing things to exacerbate it. For example, the government and the culture promote the idea that women have to have a career. As a result millions of women go to university to get questionable diplomas that put them into massive debt that they will have to spend the better part of their career working off. Though women have always worked, generally before or after child bearing, getting into massive debt early on forces them to continue to work through the best part of their child bearing age.

    If a diminishing population were the real problem, the government would determine that something, such as the culture, the tax burden or the overall quality of life in the nation was a detriment to couples having more children and would actively try to address it. But instead they immediately resort to the mass migration of alien peoples which only seems to exacerbate the overall quality of life issues that were causing declining birth rates to begin with.

    Don't fall for the "economic" arguments for MASS immigration. Just like the old argument that we needed immigrants to pay taxes turned out to be false given that we are importing net tax consumers, this issue that our birth rates are declining is just a shield they have grabbed to hide their real intentions. And to me, after peeling away all their arguments, clearly seems to be the demographic change of European nations.

    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success. The people you most want having kids are probably the least influenced by financial incentives. It’s probably not so hard to cut the birthrate of the sort of people you’d rather *not* have kids (like teenagers and high-school dropouts) by providing free long-acting birth control. Mostly, they didn’t want kids, so you’re helping them do what they wanted to so but weren’t together enough to manage on their own. But the kind you want having kids (smart educated professionals) have more demanding constraints on when they can have kids (grad school, residency, tenure, partner, crazy startup schedule) and also have more money and choices. Having three kids means detracting from the singular focus needed for success. And by their nature, they’re more than capable of controlling how many kids they have.

    • Replies: @Deduction
    I've got a policy proposal.

    1. Let married couples with children share their income tax allowances. Indeed let them share their children's too.

    This is only fair as in a household of one father working, one housewife and two children, there are four people. Yet the man working gets the full whack of tax.

    Now if there is a house of four people working part time, they might pay no income tax at all.

    In the UK this would mean that a married man with two children would get his first 40,000 tax free as each of his dependents has a notional 10,000 tax free allowance.

    It's terrible that a dual income household that has the same overall income as a single income household of the same number of people actually pays a great deal less income tax, and so has a much greater post-tax income.

    , @iSteveFan

    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success.
     
    Given that Singapore has one of the highest population densities in the world, maybe the smart people not having too many kids are onto something. But I understand what you are getting at.
    , @MarkinLA
    I remember all those conservatives laughing at how stupid Germany and Sweden were by giving parents long sabbaticals to raise young children or having free daycare and the like. The last thing any society needs is immigrants to grow the population.

    I remember reading stories about how disconnected we as a society have become. One story told of elderly people in a restaurant telling the parents of crying babies that they didn't mind as it was something that brought back such fond memories of their youth.

    It may be that a lot of people would not like a more regimented society where the elderly also have obligations to future generations but reorienting our thinking along the lines of what was the normal human condition until just recently can do a lot to spread the load and create the environment where the necessary child rearing can take place.
    , @Bill B.
    Yeah but Singapore maintains its ethnic balance at a very steady rate. I.E. Singaporeans remain mostly ethnic Chinese. Many Chinese come from Malaysia where affirmative action in favour of Muslim Malays poisons the atmosphere.

    P.S. They don't talk about this much perhaps because it is just one of those things that are understood by everyone to be correct.
  104. @NOTA
    I thought all those unemployed people from Spain, Greece, and Portugal were already heading to Germany to take those jobs. Wouldn't they provide a lot of lower-wage labor already?

    The real reason for taking on refugees is for humanitarian reasons. And this is reasonable, within some limits, just like giving some money to charity is reasonable. But that means deciding how many refugees make sense to take, and choosing the ones you are willing to have--not taking any group that can riot at a train station and get a lot of TV time.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/more-than-11000-icelanders-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees-to-help-european-crisis-10480505.html

    Iceland has already a reputation for financial acumen second to none, now it is adding even more to its enviable human resources. One can only envy their inevitable success.

  105. @Diversity Heretic
    The argument that Germany "needs" more workers fails for two reasons. One is that a racially and culturally different group is unlikely to cheerfully support other people's parents with their taxes. Secondly, the economy is changing. Automation increasingly displaces people and not just in traditional blue collar jobs; many office jobs can be computerized. A declining population may be an advantage under such circumstances. As I've said before on other blogs, I remember the U.S. of 1960 (population about 170 million). It didn't seem empty!

    The “new germans” are not as capable as the native germans when it comes to driving a robust economy. They come from low trust, clan based societies and thus won’t have much interest in the common good. Last but not least, they will soon be bombarded with incessant reminders that white germans are racists and bad people.

    They’re really going to be ok with paying taxes to take care of old racists ?

  106. @Anonymous
    Sorry, I simply cannot agree with you.
    Thilo Sarrazin's recent book comprehensively and explicitly underlines the way the previous mass intake of third world labor into Germany happened to be a non-working, welfare chomping economic and fiscal disaster.

    Germany has a skilled worker shortage. There are already a surplus of under-employed Arab and Turk immigrants in Germany.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Same as in Britain. As soon as the anchor-baby generation is of working age, they mysteriously become "Lazy", to a much greater degree than their indigenous prole peers. Even the Eastern Europeans are being infected with disgusting British "Laziness", and starting to claim Benefits/Credits or returning home with their stash.
    The only recourse is twice as many illiterate peasant recruits to the Information Age and the Skills-Based Economy. Every year.
  107. This is an in depth and reasonable look at how immigrants address cities (its neither pro- nor -anti-):

    https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2015/09/06/cities-and-immigration/

  108. @NOTA
    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success. The people you most want having kids are probably the least influenced by financial incentives. It's probably not so hard to cut the birthrate of the sort of people you'd rather *not* have kids (like teenagers and high-school dropouts) by providing free long-acting birth control. Mostly, they didn't want kids, so you're helping them do what they wanted to so but weren't together enough to manage on their own. But the kind you want having kids (smart educated professionals) have more demanding constraints on when they can have kids (grad school, residency, tenure, partner, crazy startup schedule) and also have more money and choices. Having three kids means detracting from the singular focus needed for success. And by their nature, they're more than capable of controlling how many kids they have.

    I’ve got a policy proposal.

    1. Let married couples with children share their income tax allowances. Indeed let them share their children’s too.

    This is only fair as in a household of one father working, one housewife and two children, there are four people. Yet the man working gets the full whack of tax.

    Now if there is a house of four people working part time, they might pay no income tax at all.

    In the UK this would mean that a married man with two children would get his first 40,000 tax free as each of his dependents has a notional 10,000 tax free allowance.

    It’s terrible that a dual income household that has the same overall income as a single income household of the same number of people actually pays a great deal less income tax, and so has a much greater post-tax income.

  109. @AshTon
    I would be failing in my duty if I didn't repost this video of Peston interviewing Rabbi Sacks about how Europe should open its borders to Syria.

    http://youtu.be/a1RZ5B12lRQ

    What he doesn't mention is that of the 4 million refugees who in Syria's bordering countries, NONE are in Israel:

    http://youtu.be/0_QrIapiNOw

    Surely, Mr Peston should be pointing out that if Israel imports 4 million mostly young men, many with military experience, then, like Europe, it will turn into an economic paradise. What could possibly go wrong?

    Who are these people, like this Rabbi, who must continuously pretend that they care? What do they get out of it?

    • Replies: @Beach

    Who are these people, like this Rabbi, who must continuously pretend that they care? What do they get out of it?
     
    The opportunity to preen, and to reassert that they are on the side of the angels, without it costing them, personally, anything at all.
  110. Once an economy is through its frontier/ colonization/ resource extraction phase and matures, it doesn’t need more workers. The main effect of bringing in more is to lower the wages of the existing workers. But that happens to have been THE big project of the elites in western countries since the 1970s.

    This may also explain why Western elites forgot that they were once concerned about world over-population.

    Incidentally, concerns about world overpopulation were/ are valid and will turn out to be the achilles heel of the whole scheme.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    For some interesting overpopulation doomsday scenarios, you should look into my mother's childhood classmate's ideas: Pentti Linkola. Some of his ideas are so intense that I've seen them redacted on Wikipedia. But, brace yourself, this is stomach-churning stuff from a famous, academic recluse. Everyone knows about him in Finland, but nobody wants anyone to know that you know about his views!
  111. @NOTA
    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success. The people you most want having kids are probably the least influenced by financial incentives. It's probably not so hard to cut the birthrate of the sort of people you'd rather *not* have kids (like teenagers and high-school dropouts) by providing free long-acting birth control. Mostly, they didn't want kids, so you're helping them do what they wanted to so but weren't together enough to manage on their own. But the kind you want having kids (smart educated professionals) have more demanding constraints on when they can have kids (grad school, residency, tenure, partner, crazy startup schedule) and also have more money and choices. Having three kids means detracting from the singular focus needed for success. And by their nature, they're more than capable of controlling how many kids they have.

    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success.

    Given that Singapore has one of the highest population densities in the world, maybe the smart people not having too many kids are onto something. But I understand what you are getting at.

    • Replies: @sb
    Singaporeans will only consider having children if it can be guaranteed that they will be perfect .
  112. @Wilkey
    I really can't stop watching this. One of the best (i.e., worst) parts of the episode is where they show the money collected by a single (white) woman with three (white) children.

    All she has to do is work 16 hours a week at a minimum wage job to collect a weekly income of 811.37 pounds. That's US$64,550 per year for working a 16 hour/week minimum wage job, only about $7,800/year of which is actually earned. And that's the "harsh" policy imposed by the Tory/Liberal Dem coalition government.

    All she has to do is work 16 hours a week at a minimum wage job to collect a weekly income of 811.37 pounds. That’s US$64,550 per year for working a 16 hour minimum wage job. And that’s the “harsh” policy imposed by the Tory/Liberal Dem coalition government.

    No, it’s much worse than that: (1) She also gets the wages from the part-time job, and (2) The benefits are not taxed, so the receipt of $64,550 in benefits is the the equivalent of a much higher pre-tax income.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    My figure includes the earned income, but you're absolutely correct that her real income is larger because it is untaxed. If you watch the video it actually shows the income breakdown on the screen. About 100 of the 811 pounds is her income form the job.

    If you watch the video to the end you find out she refuses to get a real job, and eventually gets evicted and winds up in a one room hostel. Most of the other welfare leeches they follow (all of whom are minority, mostly immigrants) finish under happier circumstances (happier from their perspectives, not the taxpayers).

    There's an Ethiopian woman with two daughters (and no husband, of course) who hasn't held a job in 12 years who's bitching because the government is "only" giving her a free, US$1,050/month house...because it's not in London.

    , @Anonymous Nephew
    Though a lot of that benefit will go in rent i.e. in profit to some landlord. Plenty of Housing Benefit millionaires in London, though for obvious reasons they don't crow about it.
  113. @Lot

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?
     
    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.

    This explains, but not excuses, the German resentment toward Greece and Spain. They had a long boom in the 2000's that Germany missed out in.

    The rebuilding of the East also meant that West Germans had to pay much more in taxes than they received in government transfers and services. As a result, with weak wage growth and high taxes to pay for the rebuilding, actual German households don't have much private savings to show for their two decades of austerity. Average private net worth is about twice as high in Northern Italy than Germany.

    Public subsidy, private profit. The Euro is an export promotion scheme for German business that enables than to d- industrialise the rest of Europe. German taxpayers foot the bill, and though resentful they can’t do anything about it. Germany props up French banks that loaned money to Italy.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    exactly, that's why the Euro was not been good for most non-industrial countries...and the smaller economies get their "marching papers" - sounds so German, right?! from Germany. Merkel may not be able to get the small fish to accept more "refugees" into their small pond. There's no benefit of any kind, for most EU countries to take in 500,000 "refugees."
  114. @iSteveFan

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.
     
    If you were in charge of the government and really believed that your nation was in danger due to a declining population, what would you do? First, you could easily determine that with modern medicine life spans were increasing, infant mortality was decreasing and there were no famines or wars to explain the drop. So you would readily ascertain it was a decline in birth rates that was to blame.

    With this in mind, what policies would you pursue? Would you try to implement policies to increase the birth rate of your own people, who obviously are acclimated to your nation and culture, or would you immediately seek to demographically alter your country by bringing in mass numbers of alien people with little to zero cultural affinity with your nation?

    Now ask yourself why the government is not only not trying to address this decline in birth rates among the natives, but is doing things to exacerbate it. For example, the government and the culture promote the idea that women have to have a career. As a result millions of women go to university to get questionable diplomas that put them into massive debt that they will have to spend the better part of their career working off. Though women have always worked, generally before or after child bearing, getting into massive debt early on forces them to continue to work through the best part of their child bearing age.

    If a diminishing population were the real problem, the government would determine that something, such as the culture, the tax burden or the overall quality of life in the nation was a detriment to couples having more children and would actively try to address it. But instead they immediately resort to the mass migration of alien peoples which only seems to exacerbate the overall quality of life issues that were causing declining birth rates to begin with.

    Don't fall for the "economic" arguments for MASS immigration. Just like the old argument that we needed immigrants to pay taxes turned out to be false given that we are importing net tax consumers, this issue that our birth rates are declining is just a shield they have grabbed to hide their real intentions. And to me, after peeling away all their arguments, clearly seems to be the demographic change of European nations.

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don’t think there’s a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico. I think it’s just shortsighted love of profit.

    No question our cultures (US and EU) devalues children. Women have little security under current divorce regimes, men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.

    On the contrary, the “good life” is always expressed in terms of having “high status” (good schools) and “high income.” Nothing else matters, and anything less is failure. You can even see this with people who have children: they have to be high status, and high earners. Nothing else matters.

    It’s like the whole business with “careers”. Nobody gives a sh*t when you are 65 and you announce that you used to be a VP for whatever at whosis bank. That wasn’t a career, that was a job. The same applies to most careers jobs. They are jobs.

    But whatever. I don’t think there’s any master mind pulling the strings so I don’t think there’s any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.
    At least, not on a large scale.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying...
     
    But you do see that the West has lower birth rates and the population will be in decline. Whether or not that is good, bad or indifferent is another question. You have noted the declining birth rates and written that is a justification for immigration.

    OK, so if that is a problem where have the governments been to address it? As a regular Sailer reader you are well aware of the USG's 50 plus year effort to end the "Gap". You are aware of the USG's effort to desegregate every 'burb and village with Section 8. Where are the similar efforts with regards to increasing the birth rate, if the declining birth rate is really the issue?

    Keep in mind it wasn't too long ago that the culture (maybe even government) promoted the idea that people shouldn't have too many kids due to overpopulation. I am old enough to remember hearing that stuff as a kid. Yet all the while that message was being sent to middle America, the immivasion was in full swing. Why?
    , @MarkinLA
    I don’t think there’s any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.

    They don't have to convince the millennials. What needs to happen is similar to what used to happen in the multi-generational households of the past. The grandparents take some of the load off the kids. This can be a government program in some ways. The government can provide money to move the grandparents closer to their grandchildren. The grandparents can run the daycare centers. I don't have the answers but it seemed to work reasonably well when the country was a whole lot less rich and people were forced into those living arrangements.

    Of course, business doesn't get it's cheap labor. That is deal-breaker.
    , @anon

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe
     
    I'm really surprised you in particular can't see it.
    , @Nico

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don’t think there’s a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico.
     
    If there's not a cabal, someone is doing a damned good job of making it look like there is. A number of Islamic State cadres were calling for Muslims to invade Europe's shores and from the looks of it they were being obeyed. Within our ranks, at least one Jewish commentator remarked of post-1965 immigration, "The more diverse America is, the safer Jews are!" (He was quite wrong, of course, but it is perception and intent, not reality and result, we are concerned about here.)
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Women have little security under current divorce regimes…
     
    Good. The late Daniel Amnéus, a hero of the MRA types (though he wasn't one himself), pointed out that when divorce law grossly favored men, divorce was rare, especially in the middle class backbone of the population. It was once that courts moved the pendulum the other way, especially in regard to custody, that the divorce rate rose. Women had less of a sense of responsibility to family and society, or they were simply weaker. Men also feared for their reputations.

    …men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.
     
    "Men"? If you live Adrian Peterson's lifestyle without Adrian Peterson's income, they can't hold you responsible because you don't have the means. Married, employed men as far as I know are still held responsible.
  115. @ben tillman

    All she has to do is work 16 hours a week at a minimum wage job to collect a weekly income of 811.37 pounds. That’s US$64,550 per year for working a 16 hour minimum wage job. And that’s the “harsh” policy imposed by the Tory/Liberal Dem coalition government.
     
    No, it's much worse than that: (1) She also gets the wages from the part-time job, and (2) The benefits are not taxed, so the receipt of $64,550 in benefits is the the equivalent of a much higher pre-tax income.

    My figure includes the earned income, but you’re absolutely correct that her real income is larger because it is untaxed. If you watch the video it actually shows the income breakdown on the screen. About 100 of the 811 pounds is her income form the job.

    If you watch the video to the end you find out she refuses to get a real job, and eventually gets evicted and winds up in a one room hostel. Most of the other welfare leeches they follow (all of whom are minority, mostly immigrants) finish under happier circumstances (happier from their perspectives, not the taxpayers).

    There’s an Ethiopian woman with two daughters (and no husband, of course) who hasn’t held a job in 12 years who’s bitching because the government is “only” giving her a free, US$1,050/month house…because it’s not in London.

  116. @SPMoore8
    I'm not sure if we are in agreement or not, but everything depends on the future value of money, and that includes all of our pensions, social security, and government handouts. That is why the 2008 recession was so bad, because there's an effect on the return on investment that goes on for many years beyond that point.

    On the other hand, you can't get a return on investment, and that includes the stock market, if there are no profits, so the idea is to get the profits up front, and keep the growth going at some level, and that's why the need for birth rates or immigration or migrants or refugees or what have you, as long as you can shave a little profit off cheap labor and the purchase of cheap goods.

    At least, that's how it looks to me.

    if there are no profits, so the idea is to get the profits up front, and keep the growth going at some level,

    And if there is no money in the hands of the people to buy the stock then what is it worth? Where does that money come from considering that the dividends paid out by stocks now only seem high because the bank is paying nothing. If you expect those dividends to be the source of the money to buy the stock, you would need to wait 50 years for it to make sense.

    My grandparents left a house to my uncle. He lived in an area where you almost can’t give them away because the jobs are gone and the mines closed. If that house and land was in California it would be worth 6 times what it is there. Stocks can have a similar fate. In fact they did in the 70s when stocks routinely traded at 1/2 their book value. This was the reason the LBO craze of the 80s got underway.

  117. @SPMoore8
    Turning the refugee crisis into a military adventure was bound to come up. It could be done, but neither the UK, US, nor EU has the civic will or virtue to go whole hog and basically colonize and control the Middle East. And I don't want to start a Fifth Crusade, either: But either EU goes to them or they come to the EU. There's no way to emerge from this situation without guilt; the passivity of European governments -- insofar as they are not motivated by (perhaps dubious) economic considerations -- is simply to kick the can down the road.

    Military adventurism precipitated this refugee crisis. If not having a refugee crisis was the chief priority, then they wouldn’t have promoted intervention and meddling into Libya and Syria. Presumably toppling Libya and Syria are higher priorities than preventing refugee crises.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  118. @George
    1) They will take up space in potentially vacant real estate.

    2) "genetic engineering prodigy " How about adequate carpenter. Being from NYC I can tell you when the Soviet Union collapsed there were Soviet military officers doing normal sorts of construction work. Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People's Paradise.

    Lots of refugees also have credentials that can be used. All sorts of scientists from the Soviet Union ended up here. In the case of the Syrians, they all look like svelte modern types whose families could afford to pay their way to Germany even though they must have lost fortunes due to the war.

    Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People’s Paradise.

    I would want the American — note that, AMERICAN — public school graduate, because pouring driveways would be a fine job for him and he could do it perfectly well. Otherwise, he’ll be on welfare while your precious Russian engineer spends his off-time running Medicare scams.

  119. @SPMoore8
    I just don't see that there's a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don't think there's a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico. I think it's just shortsighted love of profit.

    No question our cultures (US and EU) devalues children. Women have little security under current divorce regimes, men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.

    On the contrary, the "good life" is always expressed in terms of having "high status" (good schools) and "high income." Nothing else matters, and anything less is failure. You can even see this with people who have children: they have to be high status, and high earners. Nothing else matters.

    It's like the whole business with "careers". Nobody gives a sh*t when you are 65 and you announce that you used to be a VP for whatever at whosis bank. That wasn't a career, that was a job. The same applies to most careers jobs. They are jobs.

    But whatever. I don't think there's any master mind pulling the strings so I don't think there's any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.
    At least, not on a large scale.

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying…

    But you do see that the West has lower birth rates and the population will be in decline. Whether or not that is good, bad or indifferent is another question. You have noted the declining birth rates and written that is a justification for immigration.

    OK, so if that is a problem where have the governments been to address it? As a regular Sailer reader you are well aware of the USG’s 50 plus year effort to end the “Gap”. You are aware of the USG’s effort to desegregate every ‘burb and village with Section 8. Where are the similar efforts with regards to increasing the birth rate, if the declining birth rate is really the issue?

    Keep in mind it wasn’t too long ago that the culture (maybe even government) promoted the idea that people shouldn’t have too many kids due to overpopulation. I am old enough to remember hearing that stuff as a kid. Yet all the while that message was being sent to middle America, the immivasion was in full swing. Why?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Keep in mind it wasn’t too long ago that the culture (maybe even government) promoted the idea that people shouldn’t have too many kids due to overpopulation. I am old enough to remember hearing that stuff as a kid. Yet all the while that message was being sent to middle America, the immivasion was in full swing. Why?

    Great point.
    , @rvg
    What is even the point of all this blog when unless you are senile, you will notice that even with zero immigration, the US already has the demographics of the Dominican Republic or PR in the millenial and generation z.
  120. @NOTA
    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success. The people you most want having kids are probably the least influenced by financial incentives. It's probably not so hard to cut the birthrate of the sort of people you'd rather *not* have kids (like teenagers and high-school dropouts) by providing free long-acting birth control. Mostly, they didn't want kids, so you're helping them do what they wanted to so but weren't together enough to manage on their own. But the kind you want having kids (smart educated professionals) have more demanding constraints on when they can have kids (grad school, residency, tenure, partner, crazy startup schedule) and also have more money and choices. Having three kids means detracting from the singular focus needed for success. And by their nature, they're more than capable of controlling how many kids they have.

    I remember all those conservatives laughing at how stupid Germany and Sweden were by giving parents long sabbaticals to raise young children or having free daycare and the like. The last thing any society needs is immigrants to grow the population.

    I remember reading stories about how disconnected we as a society have become. One story told of elderly people in a restaurant telling the parents of crying babies that they didn’t mind as it was something that brought back such fond memories of their youth.

    It may be that a lot of people would not like a more regimented society where the elderly also have obligations to future generations but reorienting our thinking along the lines of what was the normal human condition until just recently can do a lot to spread the load and create the environment where the necessary child rearing can take place.

  121. @SPMoore8
    I just don't see that there's a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don't think there's a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico. I think it's just shortsighted love of profit.

    No question our cultures (US and EU) devalues children. Women have little security under current divorce regimes, men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.

    On the contrary, the "good life" is always expressed in terms of having "high status" (good schools) and "high income." Nothing else matters, and anything less is failure. You can even see this with people who have children: they have to be high status, and high earners. Nothing else matters.

    It's like the whole business with "careers". Nobody gives a sh*t when you are 65 and you announce that you used to be a VP for whatever at whosis bank. That wasn't a career, that was a job. The same applies to most careers jobs. They are jobs.

    But whatever. I don't think there's any master mind pulling the strings so I don't think there's any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.
    At least, not on a large scale.

    I don’t think there’s any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.

    They don’t have to convince the millennials. What needs to happen is similar to what used to happen in the multi-generational households of the past. The grandparents take some of the load off the kids. This can be a government program in some ways. The government can provide money to move the grandparents closer to their grandchildren. The grandparents can run the daycare centers. I don’t have the answers but it seemed to work reasonably well when the country was a whole lot less rich and people were forced into those living arrangements.

    Of course, business doesn’t get it’s cheap labor. That is deal-breaker.

  122. @Mike1
    Once again this is 100% finance driven. In our system the loan book of the financial system MUST increase or the whole thing will fall down. This is not intuitive so people desperately look for answers everywhere else.

    This happening at the point where loans can no longer be force fed into Greece by German banks is zero surprise. Again, they MUST get a new market or fall over.

    It's interesting that everyone always gets it right when they blame "elites" for pushing these policies but are never right about why. Elites make most of their money from finance that part should be intuitive but no one gets it.

    I doubt this link will ever be publicly understood because people who are fascinated by the results (Steve) find the cause (finance) boring and distasteful. I enjoy studying the chain but find the idea of writing about it boring.

    Excellent comment. Here in the Midwest, and everywhere, the housing market goes bonkers for more immigration. High-end, low-end, everything, spread across multiple industries. Everything that has been discussed over and over again on this website.

    I think at least part of this is that your average responsible citizen has either checked out of the whole consumerist mentality the past few years, or simply can’t be advertised to death into buying new products. So businesses needs whole new demographics to sell to.

    My area is a test case for all of this “privatize the profits, socialize the costs” attitude of businesses. 60-70% of the kindergarten and preschool children in the wealthiest two public schools are Indian. The ramifications are incredible.

    • Replies: @Nico
    Very true, and very telling that so many of the "classic" stereotypical staples of American consumerist banality - junk food, pop CDs, plastic Disney trinkets, public schools, etc. - have for at least twenty years been on a slow but sure fall from favor with whites, while non-East Asian minorities continue to gobble them up in droves.
  123. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?
     
    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.

    This explains, but not excuses, the German resentment toward Greece and Spain. They had a long boom in the 2000's that Germany missed out in.

    The rebuilding of the East also meant that West Germans had to pay much more in taxes than they received in government transfers and services. As a result, with weak wage growth and high taxes to pay for the rebuilding, actual German households don't have much private savings to show for their two decades of austerity. Average private net worth is about twice as high in Northern Italy than Germany.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.

    Sorry, mate, still not seeing it. Where is the evidence that Germany is suffering from a labor shortage?

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    German auto workers average close to $70/hr.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/28/1049409/-German-auto-manufacturers-high-profits-and-high-pay-show-why-U-S-labor-laws-need-to-be-stronger


    Anytime wages go that high, industry claims there's a "labor shortage."

    Don't be surprised to later read that auto wages have fallen and that lots of Syrian refugees ended up in the auto manufacturing factories.
  124. @tanabear
    So now the Left considers overpopulation to be a good thing. What happened to all those dire warnings in the past?

    Five years ago Angela Merkel said that attempts at creating a multicultural society to have utterly failed. So what gives? Is there someone else pulling the strings here?

    Everyone in the EU is afraid of being called a Nazi…the imagery of masses of people in stations, refugee camps, getting snagged on razor wire, hapless guards with guns & batons being screamed at by angry hoards of bearded men; squalid trains no doubt smelling of human waste and B.O., slowly making their way somewhere, or just sitting on the tracks. Plus, summer is over now, and the cool rainy days have arrived in central and northern Europe, and migrants appear in rags and thin clothes in most shots.

    The photos from the NYT and many media orgs have been disturbing (often staged to show as many women and babies as possible). I find it ironic that the latest NYT Magazine did not Photoshop hijabs onto the images of those 95% men on those boats, packed in like sardines.

    This is a disaster now, which has no solution. The winter comes quickly to Europe, and that damn rain; no country wants images of babies and children lying in the gutter on some European city street. Merkel and EU dweebs have to stay up all night for weeks to figure out how they are going to shame their citizens to pay for all these people who will need assistance for generations – taxes will go way up, there’s no other way.

    Those EU sanctions for Russia seem like a joke now, and Putin gets to have the last laugh as the German economy will be affected, as will all the other EU nations that will be shamed to take 75% more (just guessing) even if some of the countries have 12% unemployment. There’s a brain-drain going on at the same time in some of the Nordic countries: their smartest, most educated 25-35 year-olds are opting to go abroad (including the USA) for their careers – so not good as they are the largest tax payers.

    And, I agree that multiculturalism has not not worked in Europe, and diversity is just a “My Little Pony” naive idea that has turned many Europeans against paying social welfare benefits for more idle men, yes, it is mostly men, in their countries. Many migrants carry this phony idea that they are from “war-torn” countries or are escaping persecution – I mean, people make-up stuff all the time. Petty crime, vandalism, rape and now things like knife slashing in IKEA or other public places are just increasing.

    I have never seen NYT print an honest investigative article about who is behind the increase in all the rapes and gang-like attacks by migrant men against native populations. No articles as to how the boundaries are drawn so tightly by the parents of Muslim boys (forget girls, duh), in particular, to not affiliate with native boys, well, yeah, maybe in soccer (and the Turks on the national team has been used thousands of times). But, getting back to Merkel, she will fight tooth and nail to not be called a Nazi.

    I blame the Saudis (well, all the Gulf States) for just about everything these last 2 decades, I always have, since 9/11…even decades earlier. That part of the world is still having their primitive and infantile arguments: Sunni vs. Shiite. Nothing good has been technologically developed (STEM) in that Muslim region, for the greater good of mankind, for 50 years now, when all the EU countries and USA moved on/prospered/advanced after WW2. And, liberals, especially, of all nations, need to start admitting how being female just really sucks in most, if not all, of the middle east. It sucks to be an animal, too – I’m so grossed-out by halal.

    Let’s just all blow-off going to that stupid WCup to punish that part of the world. It’s about the only thing we can do. Although I am not a fan of FoxSports, I will watch the matches on television…or I’ll go to our local bar.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I can recall thinking a couple of decades ago, when there was only trickle of third-worlders being taken into Western Europe, that it'll be all fine and dandy until the prosperity ceases. You've got a tenuous global financial system based on fiat currency and debt while you now have a self-destructively generous welfare system and significant new populations of very hostile and violent peoples (especially Africans). It'll be a horror show.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Everyone in the EU is afraid of being called a Nazi…
     
    A notable exception being the Danes. Their country was occupied by the Krauts, so they take this as the sleazy insult it is meant to be, and resist. Why the Dutch and Belgians don't do the same, I don't know. Do they even bother to use this ruse on the Geerts and the Pims?

    Finns, one would think, would be highly vulnerable to being called "Nazis", as their country was allied with Germany, if only by default. But it doesn't seem to work on them, either.

  125. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?
     
    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.

    This explains, but not excuses, the German resentment toward Greece and Spain. They had a long boom in the 2000's that Germany missed out in.

    The rebuilding of the East also meant that West Germans had to pay much more in taxes than they received in government transfers and services. As a result, with weak wage growth and high taxes to pay for the rebuilding, actual German households don't have much private savings to show for their two decades of austerity. Average private net worth is about twice as high in Northern Italy than Germany.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.

    Sorry, mate, still not seeing it. Where is the evidence that Germany is suffering from a labor shortage?

  126. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @iSteveFan

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying...
     
    But you do see that the West has lower birth rates and the population will be in decline. Whether or not that is good, bad or indifferent is another question. You have noted the declining birth rates and written that is a justification for immigration.

    OK, so if that is a problem where have the governments been to address it? As a regular Sailer reader you are well aware of the USG's 50 plus year effort to end the "Gap". You are aware of the USG's effort to desegregate every 'burb and village with Section 8. Where are the similar efforts with regards to increasing the birth rate, if the declining birth rate is really the issue?

    Keep in mind it wasn't too long ago that the culture (maybe even government) promoted the idea that people shouldn't have too many kids due to overpopulation. I am old enough to remember hearing that stuff as a kid. Yet all the while that message was being sent to middle America, the immivasion was in full swing. Why?

    Keep in mind it wasn’t too long ago that the culture (maybe even government) promoted the idea that people shouldn’t have too many kids due to overpopulation. I am old enough to remember hearing that stuff as a kid. Yet all the while that message was being sent to middle America, the immivasion was in full swing. Why?

    Great point.

  127. @Sean
    Public subsidy, private profit. The Euro is an export promotion scheme for German business that enables than to d- industrialise the rest of Europe. German taxpayers foot the bill, and though resentful they can't do anything about it. Germany props up French banks that loaned money to Italy.

    exactly, that’s why the Euro was not been good for most non-industrial countries…and the smaller economies get their “marching papers” – sounds so German, right?! from Germany. Merkel may not be able to get the small fish to accept more “refugees” into their small pond. There’s no benefit of any kind, for most EU countries to take in 500,000 “refugees.”

  128. @Anonymous
    I'd be very interested to know whether women are aroused by the sight of groups of military age men. Especially groups of men moving in concert into new territory.

    Is anyone familiar with any studies done on that? Perhaps this would be a good question to pose at Chateau Heartiste.

    Relatedly, does polling in Europe and America show any gender/sex disparity in attitudes toward mass immigration?

    I think this one of the most important issues within this complex. With the ongoing influx in Europe the partner market gets better month after month for young women and worse for young men. Then again middle easterners are not really very desired as romantic partners in Europe

  129. @Ed
    Once an economy is through its frontier/ colonization/ resource extraction phase and matures, it doesn't need more workers. The main effect of bringing in more is to lower the wages of the existing workers. But that happens to have been THE big project of the elites in western countries since the 1970s.

    This may also explain why Western elites forgot that they were once concerned about world over-population.

    Incidentally, concerns about world overpopulation were/ are valid and will turn out to be the achilles heel of the whole scheme.

    For some interesting overpopulation doomsday scenarios, you should look into my mother’s childhood classmate’s ideas: Pentti Linkola. Some of his ideas are so intense that I’ve seen them redacted on Wikipedia. But, brace yourself, this is stomach-churning stuff from a famous, academic recluse. Everyone knows about him in Finland, but nobody wants anyone to know that you know about his views!

    • Replies: @5371
    Thanks for the tip!
  130. @Jimi
    I predict in 10-20 years the Left will come out for Social Security means-testing and cuts. The Left will argue that it is racist to tax disproportionately non-White workers to pay for the benefits of disproportionately White retirees.

    it’s already happening in some of the Nordic countries. My mother, for instance, was means tested years ago, and receives very little.

  131. Robert Preston? He’s the guy who sold River City all those trombones. Didn’t he end up with the Librarian?

  132. Let’s look on the bright side; it’s polarising opinion no end.

  133. The Prime minister of Finland took in a refugee…have a look at some of his Facebook images

    ***worth a peek!

    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/news-libertygb/6873-refugee-boy-sets-immigration-debate-alight-in-finland

  134. in a way it is great that this immigration explosion in Germany is happening right now. it is the perfect live experiment to show whether immigration sceptics like me have the right or wrong worldview. It would be really interesting when this would end well for Germany, because it would mean that guys like me really had to rethink a lot of things. But when it ends bad, like expect it to do, it will the cautionary tale for countries like China and India not do the same thing in the future, so this could be really useful

  135. @Cryptogenic
    Unfortunately this is the truth. English proles seem to grow increasingly retarded-looking. Drool Brittania. Still, they have a long way to go before they match the genetic caries of their 75 IQ grateful guests.

    Ever notice how the rhetoric of the greatness of immigrants makes them sound like vitamins? They're always "infusing," "energizing" and giving "boosts" to "tired" and "old" societies.

    Vitamins! So funny! remember Vitameatavegimin?

    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    It would be really interesting when this would end well for Germany, because it would mean that guys like me really had to rethink a lot of things.
     
    Maybe on the positive side Germany might get a few Steve Jobs' out of this.
  136. @Lagertha
    Vitamins! So funny! remember Vitameatavegimin?

    It would be really interesting when this would end well for Germany, because it would mean that guys like me really had to rethink a lot of things.

    Maybe on the positive side Germany might get a few Steve Jobs’ out of this.

  137. @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    What is the average English working class white like?

    Good one. I suspect that you suspect the same thing I do, namely that our interlocutor is not the sort to touch white proles (or any proles for that matter with a ten-mile pole.

    I was in Berry last weekend, as I often am. I admit there were certainly some frightful faces in the towns and I wouldn’t want to be out alone or with a small and conspicuously bourgeois contingent of friends after dark in the village or off my friends’ properties. Nevertheless, the imminent fear of the “unknown” that I get any night OR day that is bad enough that I forced to trek up to Seine Saint-Denis was conspicuously absent.

    Bottom line: Hindu tribesmen? NO THANKS. At least there’s some hope for white proles to become something I find recognizable if they can be persuaded not to put Cognac in the baby bottle or marry traceable cousins for about two generations.

  138. @Bleuteaux
    Excellent comment. Here in the Midwest, and everywhere, the housing market goes bonkers for more immigration. High-end, low-end, everything, spread across multiple industries. Everything that has been discussed over and over again on this website.

    I think at least part of this is that your average responsible citizen has either checked out of the whole consumerist mentality the past few years, or simply can't be advertised to death into buying new products. So businesses needs whole new demographics to sell to.

    My area is a test case for all of this "privatize the profits, socialize the costs" attitude of businesses. 60-70% of the kindergarten and preschool children in the wealthiest two public schools are Indian. The ramifications are incredible.

    Very true, and very telling that so many of the “classic” stereotypical staples of American consumerist banality – junk food, pop CDs, plastic Disney trinkets, public schools, etc. – have for at least twenty years been on a slow but sure fall from favor with whites, while non-East Asian minorities continue to gobble them up in droves.

    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    Speaking of fast food, as someone who works in the Ag equipment industry, I wonder how much more dependent on immigrants and minorities our grain-based farm system has become, what with many higher-educated whites ditching the grains and processed foods the last couple decades.

    I mean, which cultures do we know are heavily grain and legume based? The Indians are vegetarians if not vegans, and rice and beans are Mexican staples. So we get to import tens of millions of new consumers to keep these industries alive.
  139. @Ed
    Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she's inviting to Germany will change the nation.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-merkel-says-record-refugee-influx-change-nation-102904757.html

    "What we are experiencing now is that will occupy and change our country in coming years," she said after 20,000 migrants arrived at the weekend alone.

    "We want the change to be positive, and we believe we can accomplish that," she added.

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were "very moving" and "breathtaking".

    "That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history," she said, expressing joy that "Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope".

    “That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history,” she said, expressing joy that “Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope”. Merkel (women should not be in charge of nations, IMHO)

    Read “The Wages of Guilt”, Ian Buruma, back in college. Post WW2 Germany overkill on trying to make amends for the Nazis. Post WW2 Japan, what atrocities? what guilt?

    Let’s see whose national identity is still intact in 2045.

  140. @George
    1) They will take up space in potentially vacant real estate.

    2) "genetic engineering prodigy " How about adequate carpenter. Being from NYC I can tell you when the Soviet Union collapsed there were Soviet military officers doing normal sorts of construction work. Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People's Paradise.

    Lots of refugees also have credentials that can be used. All sorts of scientists from the Soviet Union ended up here. In the case of the Syrians, they all look like svelte modern types whose families could afford to pay their way to Germany even though they must have lost fortunes due to the war.

    In NYC, my building super is a Serb and his helper a Pole. They fixed a sink drain using two incompatible metals, one of which ate away at the other, and installed the low-flow toilet at an angle, not square to the walls.

    For anything important, I’d rather have American union labor.

  141. it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).

    And it is arguably NOT useful to have an influx of young angry men who may harbor resentment toward the West, who may well be keen to go on the dole and strive to kill infidels and prove to their hosts that it was a big mistake letting them in – in a way that is much like the prior waves of Muslim immigration that have already proved problematic for Europe.

    It’s arguable either way, but which one is more likely given what we know about Muslims? It is utterly crazy that Jews could think for one minute that these men are anything like their beloved immigrant ancestors – they are as different as chalk and cheese.

    Here is a picture of 8 year old Ashkenazi Jew Samuel Reshevsky taking on a group of French chess master. I don’t know the results of this match but the following year he played a group of 20 West Point officers and cadets and beat 19 (1 draw). Ashkenazi Jewry produced figures like Reshevsky by the boatload (plus musical geniuses, mathematical geniuses, etc., not to mention tons of doctors, lawyers, etc.) Has there EVER been a Muslim immigrant that had that kind of brain power? Even one?

    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    Abdus Salam - although in Pakistan it isn't permitted to call him a Muslim. They even defaced his gravestone which described him as the: "First Muslim Nobel Physics Laureate", so that it is now the rather nonsensical: " First Nobel Physics Laureate".
    , @jimmyriddle
    Abdus Salam - although in Pakistan it isn't permitted to call him a Muslim. They even defaced his gravestone which described him as the: "First Muslim Nobel Physics Laureate", so that it is now the rather nonsensical: " First Nobel Physics Laureate".
    , @Anonymous

    Here is a picture of 8 year old Ashkenazi Jew Samuel Reshevsky taking on a group of French chess master. I don’t know the results of this match but the following year he played a group of 20 West Point officers and cadets and beat 19 (1 draw). Ashkenazi Jewry produced figures like Reshevsky by the boatload (plus musical geniuses, mathematical geniuses, etc., not to mention tons of doctors, lawyers, etc.) Has there EVER been a Muslim immigrant that had that kind of brain power? Even one?
     
    Poor Reshevsky, who became the U.S. champ right when Bobby Fischer was ascending. While Reshevsky was intelligent, based on his career apart from chess, being a top chess player doesn't necessarily mean someone is intelligent. Geoff Colvin in Talent is Overrated cites a study which shows some international masters (one step below GM) had below average IQs.

    As for one Muslim immigrant, I would say the late Abdus Salam, Nobel Laureate in Physics (1979) and theoretical physicist in the UK (Oxford). Salam was a practicing Muslim but his views were very mystical and liberal.
  142. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lagertha
    Everyone in the EU is afraid of being called a Nazi...the imagery of masses of people in stations, refugee camps, getting snagged on razor wire, hapless guards with guns & batons being screamed at by angry hoards of bearded men; squalid trains no doubt smelling of human waste and B.O., slowly making their way somewhere, or just sitting on the tracks. Plus, summer is over now, and the cool rainy days have arrived in central and northern Europe, and migrants appear in rags and thin clothes in most shots.

    The photos from the NYT and many media orgs have been disturbing (often staged to show as many women and babies as possible). I find it ironic that the latest NYT Magazine did not Photoshop hijabs onto the images of those 95% men on those boats, packed in like sardines.

    This is a disaster now, which has no solution. The winter comes quickly to Europe, and that damn rain; no country wants images of babies and children lying in the gutter on some European city street. Merkel and EU dweebs have to stay up all night for weeks to figure out how they are going to shame their citizens to pay for all these people who will need assistance for generations - taxes will go way up, there's no other way.

    Those EU sanctions for Russia seem like a joke now, and Putin gets to have the last laugh as the German economy will be affected, as will all the other EU nations that will be shamed to take 75% more (just guessing) even if some of the countries have 12% unemployment. There's a brain-drain going on at the same time in some of the Nordic countries: their smartest, most educated 25-35 year-olds are opting to go abroad (including the USA) for their careers - so not good as they are the largest tax payers.

    And, I agree that multiculturalism has not not worked in Europe, and diversity is just a "My Little Pony" naive idea that has turned many Europeans against paying social welfare benefits for more idle men, yes, it is mostly men, in their countries. Many migrants carry this phony idea that they are from "war-torn" countries or are escaping persecution - I mean, people make-up stuff all the time. Petty crime, vandalism, rape and now things like knife slashing in IKEA or other public places are just increasing.

    I have never seen NYT print an honest investigative article about who is behind the increase in all the rapes and gang-like attacks by migrant men against native populations. No articles as to how the boundaries are drawn so tightly by the parents of Muslim boys (forget girls, duh), in particular, to not affiliate with native boys, well, yeah, maybe in soccer (and the Turks on the national team has been used thousands of times). But, getting back to Merkel, she will fight tooth and nail to not be called a Nazi.

    I blame the Saudis (well, all the Gulf States) for just about everything these last 2 decades, I always have, since 9/11...even decades earlier. That part of the world is still having their primitive and infantile arguments: Sunni vs. Shiite. Nothing good has been technologically developed (STEM) in that Muslim region, for the greater good of mankind, for 50 years now, when all the EU countries and USA moved on/prospered/advanced after WW2. And, liberals, especially, of all nations, need to start admitting how being female just really sucks in most, if not all, of the middle east. It sucks to be an animal, too - I'm so grossed-out by halal.

    Let's just all blow-off going to that stupid WCup to punish that part of the world. It's about the only thing we can do. Although I am not a fan of FoxSports, I will watch the matches on television...or I'll go to our local bar.

    I can recall thinking a couple of decades ago, when there was only trickle of third-worlders being taken into Western Europe, that it’ll be all fine and dandy until the prosperity ceases. You’ve got a tenuous global financial system based on fiat currency and debt while you now have a self-destructively generous welfare system and significant new populations of very hostile and violent peoples (especially Africans). It’ll be a horror show.

  143. @NOTA
    I thought all those unemployed people from Spain, Greece, and Portugal were already heading to Germany to take those jobs. Wouldn't they provide a lot of lower-wage labor already?

    The real reason for taking on refugees is for humanitarian reasons. And this is reasonable, within some limits, just like giving some money to charity is reasonable. But that means deciding how many refugees make sense to take, and choosing the ones you are willing to have--not taking any group that can riot at a train station and get a lot of TV time.

    Yes, for example, the Vatican is limiting its generosity to housing two families only.

    Very prudent, that.

  144. @Jack D

    it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).
     
    And it is arguably NOT useful to have an influx of young angry men who may harbor resentment toward the West, who may well be keen to go on the dole and strive to kill infidels and prove to their hosts that it was a big mistake letting them in - in a way that is much like the prior waves of Muslim immigration that have already proved problematic for Europe.

    It's arguable either way, but which one is more likely given what we know about Muslims? It is utterly crazy that Jews could think for one minute that these men are anything like their beloved immigrant ancestors - they are as different as chalk and cheese.

    Here is a picture of 8 year old Ashkenazi Jew Samuel Reshevsky taking on a group of French chess master. I don't know the results of this match but the following year he played a group of 20 West Point officers and cadets and beat 19 (1 draw). Ashkenazi Jewry produced figures like Reshevsky by the boatload (plus musical geniuses, mathematical geniuses, etc., not to mention tons of doctors, lawyers, etc.) Has there EVER been a Muslim immigrant that had that kind of brain power? Even one?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Samuel_Reshevsky_versus_the_World.JPG

    Abdus Salam – although in Pakistan it isn’t permitted to call him a Muslim. They even defaced his gravestone which described him as the: “First Muslim Nobel Physics Laureate”, so that it is now the rather nonsensical: ” First Nobel Physics Laureate”.

  145. @Jack D

    it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).
     
    And it is arguably NOT useful to have an influx of young angry men who may harbor resentment toward the West, who may well be keen to go on the dole and strive to kill infidels and prove to their hosts that it was a big mistake letting them in - in a way that is much like the prior waves of Muslim immigration that have already proved problematic for Europe.

    It's arguable either way, but which one is more likely given what we know about Muslims? It is utterly crazy that Jews could think for one minute that these men are anything like their beloved immigrant ancestors - they are as different as chalk and cheese.

    Here is a picture of 8 year old Ashkenazi Jew Samuel Reshevsky taking on a group of French chess master. I don't know the results of this match but the following year he played a group of 20 West Point officers and cadets and beat 19 (1 draw). Ashkenazi Jewry produced figures like Reshevsky by the boatload (plus musical geniuses, mathematical geniuses, etc., not to mention tons of doctors, lawyers, etc.) Has there EVER been a Muslim immigrant that had that kind of brain power? Even one?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Samuel_Reshevsky_versus_the_World.JPG

    Abdus Salam – although in Pakistan it isn’t permitted to call him a Muslim. They even defaced his gravestone which described him as the: “First Muslim Nobel Physics Laureate”, so that it is now the rather nonsensical: ” First Nobel Physics Laureate”.

  146. @Bill B.
    A financier friend in Germany sent me an email of which this is a part:

    I am not sure if there is any logical, eg economic, explanation. I think it is more a case of illogical political correctness, where Merkel gets praised by CNN and Bono, but really has very little support amongst ordinary Germans, most of whom have not had a real pay rise for 15 years (see Schroeders reforms to make Germany more competitive).

    It will be interesting to see what happens next, ie now that the television pictures of migrants being welcomed in Germany have been seen. Will the numbers on the move massively increase, and if so what will Merkel do? Will she invite two million in 2016?

    Hungarians are of course the bad guys, ie the only country doing what countries are supposed to do, and control their borders. I was talking to a Bulgarian on Sunday, and rather interestingly she said that everyone has always assumed that East European want to join the West, but that she now thinks they might find a tough guy like Putin less threatening- as he can at least control his borders.

    Germany has also arrogantly invited in Syrians on behalf of other EU countries- which it should not be doing.

    Of course everyone here is attacking the UK at the moment, but if it comes to a new military campaign on the ground in Libya or Syria it will be of course British soldiers right at the front doing the fighting.

    Interesting that you mention Putin. Does anyone think it’s a mere coincidence that the same week this “crisis” has escalated he sends more firepower to Assad? Millions of refugees pouring into Northern Europe especially Germany would be to his advantage. If he can’t beat the West, he can just weaken it enough to extract what he wants from them.

    Where there is chaos, there is opportunity.

  147. Peston reminds me of this:

  148. @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    What is the average English working class white like?

    Not sure if they qualify as “working class” since so few actually work but I think this example is close.

  149. @Anonymous
    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn't "German industry" first prefer someone closer by?

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries.

    How many years would be required for this to take effect, for workers who are "freed up" to get trained to "move up the ladder"? Wouldn't "German industry" prefer to immigrants already trained for "specialized industries"?

    Also, since the refugees are young, they won’t be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Don't many of them have families? Won't it be quicker for them to have families than to train a blue collar German for a "specialized industry"?

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won’t be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It’s easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn’t so easy to push.

    Why can't the unions block all "refugees"?

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they’ll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers.

    So a Syrian displaces a German from a construction job and the German construction worker goes on to plausibly compete for a "highly-paid" job in a "specialized industry"? Don't they alreaddy do this now though? I mean, if it's so easy to enter a high paying job, wouldn't German construction workers already be angling toward one and hence be increasing the supply?

    This doesn't increase the supply of highly paid workers, it only increases the supply of construction workers.

    German worker shortage solution aspect is just H1-B visa personnel shuffle to lower costs, with a stylish continental EU twist.
    That shows how snap decisions based on emotional arguments can have many unintended long-term and life-altering consequences. The Malcolm Gladwells of the world can blink and snap all they want, but Hans and Franz still have to buy groceries.

  150. Truly, there is no cure for stupidity…..if aliens from another galaxy were coming to suck the brains out of humans, I’m sure this tool would welcome them as long as they paid taxes.

  151. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).
     
    And it is arguably NOT useful to have an influx of young angry men who may harbor resentment toward the West, who may well be keen to go on the dole and strive to kill infidels and prove to their hosts that it was a big mistake letting them in - in a way that is much like the prior waves of Muslim immigration that have already proved problematic for Europe.

    It's arguable either way, but which one is more likely given what we know about Muslims? It is utterly crazy that Jews could think for one minute that these men are anything like their beloved immigrant ancestors - they are as different as chalk and cheese.

    Here is a picture of 8 year old Ashkenazi Jew Samuel Reshevsky taking on a group of French chess master. I don't know the results of this match but the following year he played a group of 20 West Point officers and cadets and beat 19 (1 draw). Ashkenazi Jewry produced figures like Reshevsky by the boatload (plus musical geniuses, mathematical geniuses, etc., not to mention tons of doctors, lawyers, etc.) Has there EVER been a Muslim immigrant that had that kind of brain power? Even one?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Samuel_Reshevsky_versus_the_World.JPG

    Here is a picture of 8 year old Ashkenazi Jew Samuel Reshevsky taking on a group of French chess master. I don’t know the results of this match but the following year he played a group of 20 West Point officers and cadets and beat 19 (1 draw). Ashkenazi Jewry produced figures like Reshevsky by the boatload (plus musical geniuses, mathematical geniuses, etc., not to mention tons of doctors, lawyers, etc.) Has there EVER been a Muslim immigrant that had that kind of brain power? Even one?

    Poor Reshevsky, who became the U.S. champ right when Bobby Fischer was ascending. While Reshevsky was intelligent, based on his career apart from chess, being a top chess player doesn’t necessarily mean someone is intelligent. Geoff Colvin in Talent is Overrated cites a study which shows some international masters (one step below GM) had below average IQs.

    As for one Muslim immigrant, I would say the late Abdus Salam, Nobel Laureate in Physics (1979) and theoretical physicist in the UK (Oxford). Salam was a practicing Muslim but his views were very mystical and liberal.

  152. @Nico
    Very true, and very telling that so many of the "classic" stereotypical staples of American consumerist banality - junk food, pop CDs, plastic Disney trinkets, public schools, etc. - have for at least twenty years been on a slow but sure fall from favor with whites, while non-East Asian minorities continue to gobble them up in droves.

    Speaking of fast food, as someone who works in the Ag equipment industry, I wonder how much more dependent on immigrants and minorities our grain-based farm system has become, what with many higher-educated whites ditching the grains and processed foods the last couple decades.

    I mean, which cultures do we know are heavily grain and legume based? The Indians are vegetarians if not vegans, and rice and beans are Mexican staples. So we get to import tens of millions of new consumers to keep these industries alive.

  153. @SPMoore8
    Sounds like the BBC Economics Editor is providing precisely the kind of justification for this refugee influx that I surmised this weekend. I realize most people here think the consequences of this will be dire (and in the US, too), and they may be right, but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.

    On the other hand, many posters argue that population shrinkage is a good thing; it would be good to have some external articles on that, as well as case studies. (Black Death being an obvious but radical example, but describing a very different economy.)

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won't do that to marry or have children.

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground.

    Larger family sizes are achievable with nothing more than basic social willpower.

    My parents stressed strongly delayed family making. I remember being told you shouldn’t have too many children because global overpopulation will be a problem. If my culture stressed having a large family, I would have done so. Convincing people to have larger families is really not that hard.

    Women have strong influence on their immediate families, not so much men. If the women want their immediate families to have more kids, they can absolutely influence that.

    To me and I imagine most people here, the threat of swift demographic replacement was unheard of until recently. I know Camp of the Saints was published in 1973, but that was a fringe book that normal people never heard of until recently.

    Most environmentalists have stressed that the number one environmental problem is population growth. These are left-leaning liberal academic environmentalists saying this, not fringe alt-right types. And worse, we can’t come close to supporting today’s population at western standards of living where everyone has a car and plumbing and eats manufactured foods. Third world inhabitants currently have very low environmental footprints. Some don’t use any electricity or cars or plumbing.

  154. @NOTA
    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success. The people you most want having kids are probably the least influenced by financial incentives. It's probably not so hard to cut the birthrate of the sort of people you'd rather *not* have kids (like teenagers and high-school dropouts) by providing free long-acting birth control. Mostly, they didn't want kids, so you're helping them do what they wanted to so but weren't together enough to manage on their own. But the kind you want having kids (smart educated professionals) have more demanding constraints on when they can have kids (grad school, residency, tenure, partner, crazy startup schedule) and also have more money and choices. Having three kids means detracting from the singular focus needed for success. And by their nature, they're more than capable of controlling how many kids they have.

    Yeah but Singapore maintains its ethnic balance at a very steady rate. I.E. Singaporeans remain mostly ethnic Chinese. Many Chinese come from Malaysia where affirmative action in favour of Muslim Malays poisons the atmosphere.

    P.S. They don’t talk about this much perhaps because it is just one of those things that are understood by everyone to be correct.

  155. @Malcolm X-Lax

    So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).
     
    Hey, how about that! And named "Preston" no less! By the way, was watching Fox this morning. Even this "right wing" network is propagandizing for mass arab and african muslim immigration into Europe. Why is Fox referring to political leaders who oppose this mass migration pejoratively as "right wing" and the left-wing leaders cheering it on as "compassionate?" Btw, most of the "refugees" are young and male. Enjoy your Rotherhams, Europeans.

    The one constant is Rupert Murdoch. In every single publication of his, a pro-immigration tone is taken. Murdoch is the literal archetype of the Cuckservative. Cucked by Blair and Wendy Deng, he has an unquenchable fever for immigration.

    • Replies: @anon

    Cucked by Blair and Wendy Deng
     
    Blair's homosexual. Stories like that are designed to hide it.
  156. This is a new angle on the old idea that postwar German prosperity is based on immigration. I think G.K. Galbraith argues this in one of his books.

  157. @Obelix
    The most effective way to increase the native birthrate would be to make spacious houses available at affordable prices to young married couples. It would be better than just giving them money. But that's difficult to do in the crowded countries of northwestern Europe because property/land prices are so high.

    You might be right, but I note that Japan has taken some steps toward subsidizing family formation without very good results.

    I think there is a lot of hard-to-pin-down groupthink involved in birthrates. Single people talk to each other about problems and trade-offs and create a lot of anxiety over children and marriage, then balk.

    The fact that births are higher among lower IQ and less educated groups should indicate that there is a positive cintribution to short time horizons. I think this is partly why there was a baby boom post-wwii: people were just happy to be alive, not worrying overmuch about retirement, affording vacations, investing in education, etc

  158. On my recent trip to Bavaria I did observe that the population was very old. It was a bit strange to be among so many grey-haired people in public spaces. But locals told me Bavaria was the best part of Germany, because it had the least immigrants. The standard of living seemed high, but the place was crowded. I guess it will get more crowded. Nothing seems possible to stop the slide toward demographic replacent. Westerners, especially women, are simply too decadent. It seems Germany is overcoming its past by importing violent antisemites….

    • Replies: @anon
    It's perfectly possible to stop it. The only problem Europeans have is a hostile elite created by having a hostile media.
  159. @George
    1) They will take up space in potentially vacant real estate.

    2) "genetic engineering prodigy " How about adequate carpenter. Being from NYC I can tell you when the Soviet Union collapsed there were Soviet military officers doing normal sorts of construction work. Who would you want re pouring your driveway an American public school graduate or someone with an engineering degree who built bunkers for the People's Paradise.

    Lots of refugees also have credentials that can be used. All sorts of scientists from the Soviet Union ended up here. In the case of the Syrians, they all look like svelte modern types whose families could afford to pay their way to Germany even though they must have lost fortunes due to the war.

    My mother likes to tell the story of when she worked in a candy shop in university. There was a physicist that used to frequent the shop but just handed my mother whatever money he had because he couldn’t make change. Whether he couldn’t or couldn’t be bothered is not really so important.

    In the early 90s I did an under the table construction job with an older Pole who was “visiting” the US. He kept telling me to slow down and take more breaks.

  160. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    I keep hearing about unemployment in Europe but need for more workers.

    What be going on?

    I think it has something to do with the Japper concept of the three D’s : dirty, dangerous, and demeaning waruku.

    Native population is over-educated and look down on 3D jobs. So, if possible, they go to other nations to find work if they can’t find it in their own country. Instead of settling for 3D work, they seek fancy work elsewhere. So, who has to fill the 3D work? Foreigners from poorer nations who are desperate for any job.
    This leads to brain drain of native population and inflow of low IQ foreigners.

    This is what happens when labor is depreciated. We need a Museum of Labor that emphasizes how all the great things were made by people who worked at jobs that were ‘dirty, demeaning, and dangerous’. Look at the highways. Who built them? People with shovels and picks.

    When a people feel they are too good for manual labor in their own nation, they are finished.

    And womenfolk need to listen to this song:

    Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
    Stay, lady, stay, stay with your man awhile
    Until the break of day, let me see you make him smile
    His clothes are dirty but his hands are clean
    And you’re the best thing that he’s ever seen

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    "This is what happens when labor is depreciated. We need a Museum of Labor that emphasizes how all the great things were made by people who worked at jobs that were ‘dirty, demeaning, and dangerous’. Look at the highways. Who built them? People with shovels and picks. " - or, we could offer high wages to people who will do crap jobs instead of replacing them with low wage foreigners.
  161. @Malcolm X-Lax

    So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).
     
    Hey, how about that! And named "Preston" no less! By the way, was watching Fox this morning. Even this "right wing" network is propagandizing for mass arab and african muslim immigration into Europe. Why is Fox referring to political leaders who oppose this mass migration pejoratively as "right wing" and the left-wing leaders cheering it on as "compassionate?" Btw, most of the "refugees" are young and male. Enjoy your Rotherhams, Europeans.

    …watching Fox this morning. Even this “right wing” network is propagandizing for mass arab and african muslim immigration into Europe. Why is Fox referring to political leaders who oppose this mass migration pejoratively as “right wing” and the left-wing leaders cheering it on as “compassionate?”

    The MSN is now claiming that political leaders need to do more to respond to the “growing wave of global support for the refugees’. The ‘wave’ is said to be ‘intensifying’. By way of evidence, they present the usual suspects saying the usual things they usually say.

    Fifty channels can go 24/7 with NGO dittoheads, socialist politicians, nice ladies, ethnic agitators, migration industry spivs, human rights lawyers, special snowflakes and other blowhards. But what does it prove? There is no wave; only circular turbulence, like water draining down a plug hole.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "migration industry spivs"

    http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7020/6620311225_b1f489ac62_b.jpg

  162. @NOTA
    I thought all those unemployed people from Spain, Greece, and Portugal were already heading to Germany to take those jobs. Wouldn't they provide a lot of lower-wage labor already?

    The real reason for taking on refugees is for humanitarian reasons. And this is reasonable, within some limits, just like giving some money to charity is reasonable. But that means deciding how many refugees make sense to take, and choosing the ones you are willing to have--not taking any group that can riot at a train station and get a lot of TV time.

    Still waiting to see if anyone wants to serve up an actual answer to my question. I’m pretty confident there won’t be.

  163. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    In history, blessings turn to curses and curses into blessings.

    Long ago, China created a powerful centralized government ruled over vast territories.
    Europe remained fragmented.
    It was a blessing for China as it was unified into a great power, and it was a curse for Europe as various kingdoms and principalities ceaselessly bashed one another.

    But over time, the competition among the various kingdoms and principalities led to great deal of dynamism and innovation among Europeans. A blessing. Meanwhile, unified and centralized China grew stagnant under the dominance of a single imperial ruling elite. A curse.

    In the 20th century, the competition among the European nations led to suicidal WWI and WWII. A curse.
    In the 20th century, China once again unified into one polity and grew into an economic powerhouse. A blessing.

    EU is a strange creature as it’s a combination of the competition-among-states-model and unity under one governing principle. If the concept of EU only served Europeans, it might work. But EU is really WU, or world union, as it is helpless to stop Europe from merging with the rest of the world. EU couldn’t do anything about EU turning into EAMU or Eurpoean-African-Middle-Eastern-Union with endless refugees or refuses.

    • Replies: @Obelix
    The problem is that there's no such thing as a 'European' national identity. Europeans are either chauvinistic French/German/etc nationalists or they're internationalists who love Europe and Africa and Asia.

    A resurgence of nationalism among Europeans will mean an end to these immigration-invasions, but it will also lead to a renewal of intra-European squabbling. The EU won't survive this process.

    It's a conundrum.
  164. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    Will consumerism destroy the world?

    The default mindset of a people is tribalism.

    Various ideologies have tried to eradicate tribalism.

    Christianity failed. Islam failed. Communism failed. Democracy-ism failed.

    Under communism in the USSR, there was a lot of stuff about workers-of-the-world, but most people clung or reverted to their ethnic identity.

    But consumerism is like a happy drug that hooks people to the opiate of narcissism, hedonism, and me-me-me-ism, and that seems to be doing the trick. So many idiots are immersed in the narcissism of consumerism that they are happily rejecting their own identity, history, and nationality.

  165. @iSteveFan

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying...
     
    But you do see that the West has lower birth rates and the population will be in decline. Whether or not that is good, bad or indifferent is another question. You have noted the declining birth rates and written that is a justification for immigration.

    OK, so if that is a problem where have the governments been to address it? As a regular Sailer reader you are well aware of the USG's 50 plus year effort to end the "Gap". You are aware of the USG's effort to desegregate every 'burb and village with Section 8. Where are the similar efforts with regards to increasing the birth rate, if the declining birth rate is really the issue?

    Keep in mind it wasn't too long ago that the culture (maybe even government) promoted the idea that people shouldn't have too many kids due to overpopulation. I am old enough to remember hearing that stuff as a kid. Yet all the while that message was being sent to middle America, the immivasion was in full swing. Why?

    What is even the point of all this blog when unless you are senile, you will notice that even with zero immigration, the US already has the demographics of the Dominican Republic or PR in the millenial and generation z.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    It keeps us from offing ourselves.
  166. @Jimi
    I predict in 10-20 years the Left will come out for Social Security means-testing and cuts. The Left will argue that it is racist to tax disproportionately non-White workers to pay for the benefits of disproportionately White retirees.
  167. @G Pinfold

    ...watching Fox this morning. Even this “right wing” network is propagandizing for mass arab and african muslim immigration into Europe. Why is Fox referring to political leaders who oppose this mass migration pejoratively as “right wing” and the left-wing leaders cheering it on as “compassionate?”
     
    The MSN is now claiming that political leaders need to do more to respond to the "growing wave of global support for the refugees'. The 'wave' is said to be 'intensifying'. By way of evidence, they present the usual suspects saying the usual things they usually say.

    Fifty channels can go 24/7 with NGO dittoheads, socialist politicians, nice ladies, ethnic agitators, migration industry spivs, human rights lawyers, special snowflakes and other blowhards. But what does it prove? There is no wave; only circular turbulence, like water draining down a plug hole.

    “migration industry spivs”

    • Replies: @G Pinfold
    Ha. Also reminds of this song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjPBNUQ1udM

    "Hey buddy, would you like to buy a watch, real cheap?"

  168. @jill
    "Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated - just the sort of people we are looking for" Daimler CEO

    https://twitter.com/SPIEGELONLINE/status/640539865650712576

    Lügenpresse in der Propagandaoffensive

    For the last few weeks, the German media has been busy telling lies (Lügen) about die Flüchtlinge — zB, that they are “gut ausgebildet” und/oder “hoch qualifiziert”.

  169. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    There's some truth in the article.

    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers. German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    The mass migration of Syrians into Germany gives German employers access to a large pool of low-wage labor. This is the main reason why Merkely, a pro-business conservative who caters to corporate&financial interests, is so pro-refugee. This is an attempt to navigate around the anti-immigration unions and nationalists. Merkel is enabling mass immigration without changing migration laws substantially.

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That'd free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries. Also, since the refugees are young, they won't be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won't be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It's easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn't so easy to push. That's good news for the Syrians and some of the other nationalities, but bad news for Balkans migrants and South Asians (Pakistan, Bangladesh).

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they'll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers. Since most politicians and business leaders only care for the short-term, it makes sense to be lenient toward refugees for now.

    Once you follow the money, everything makes sense.

    There’s some truth in the article.

    There is no truth in the article.

    The only way to increase prosperity is to increase productivity so you *want* a tight labor market to encourage technological innovation.

    Solving the problem with immigrant labor not only reduces productivity in the short term it destroys it over the long term because there is no incentive to invest in innovation.

    Employers are stuck in a tragedy of the commons dynamic where importing more labor is the easiest path but in the long term it is stupid.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    The only way to increase prosperity is to increase productivity so you *want* a tight labor market to encourage technological innovation.

     

    Not if you're in it for the short-term buck.

    Employers are stuck in a tragedy of the commons dynamic where importing more labor is the easiest path but in the long term it is stupid.

     

    Thank you for making my point.
  170. @SPMoore8
    Sounds like the BBC Economics Editor is providing precisely the kind of justification for this refugee influx that I surmised this weekend. I realize most people here think the consequences of this will be dire (and in the US, too), and they may be right, but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.

    On the other hand, many posters argue that population shrinkage is a good thing; it would be good to have some external articles on that, as well as case studies. (Black Death being an obvious but radical example, but describing a very different economy.)

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won't do that to marry or have children.

    but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.

    Then halt all immigration and introduce pro-natal policies instead.

  171. @Expletive Deleted
    So after near enough half a century of Malthusian jeremiads on overpopulation, because The Plaaaneeeetttttt! or whatever, the shiftstick is crunched into reverse? Trouble is, only the perceptive, intelligent, law-abiding Europeans and Chinese had been listening to the deafening wall of propaganda noise, and limited their progeny. Sucks to be them.

    The anti-natal poison coming out of the US media is meant for white people only.

  172. @Intelligent Dasein
    Who are these people, like this Rabbi, who must continuously pretend that they care? What do they get out of it?

    Who are these people, like this Rabbi, who must continuously pretend that they care? What do they get out of it?

    The opportunity to preen, and to reassert that they are on the side of the angels, without it costing them, personally, anything at all.

  173. @Steve Sailer
    "migration industry spivs"

    http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7020/6620311225_b1f489ac62_b.jpg

    Ha. Also reminds of this song:

    “Hey buddy, would you like to buy a watch, real cheap?”

  174. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Speaking of H1-B visas:

    “EXCLUSIVE — Displaced Disney Cast Member: How They Replaced Me, Other Americans, With Cheap Foreigners On H1B Visas”, by Displaced Disney Cast Member7 Sep 2015, Breitbart:

    “…Twenty years of hard work, technical skill building, the fostering of relationships and a bachelor’s degree in Information Technology…

    …company’s earnings were up well over 20 percent… a new CIO, Tilak Mandadi, was appointed…

    …the phone rang … well connected… told me that since I had such a great reputation as a problem solver, had just cleared up a major outage situation the week prior and since I recently received the very highest possible performance review by management, that the meeting must be one to recognize my recent contributions to the company with perhaps a promotion or at the very least a bonus….

    …I was in a room surrounded by employees of excellence. …All of you in this room will be losing your jobs in the next 90 days. Your last day of employment for this company will be January 30, 2015. Your jobs have been given over to a foreign workforce. In the meantime you will be training your replacements until your jobs are 100 percent transferred over to them and if you don’t cooperate you will not receive any severance pay. Also, if we don’t feel confident that we have captured everything that you do we can, at our discretion, keep you longer than the 90 days until we have captured everything that you do with this job…

    …A huge influx of foreign workers from South Asia started to arrive at numerous buildings on the Disney Orlando campus in very large numbers. A foreign language was suddenly being spoken throughout the building hallways. Everywhere I went, including the company cafeteria, the composition of the company changed so much in the period of only a week. …

    …the foreign workers insisted that they record all the audio as well as everything that we did on our computer screens with recorded video during the training meetings…

    …I actually received a significant pay raise during my last 30 days with the company because I had received the highest possible job rating in performance reviews….

    …I would never recommend the IT field to my own children or anybody else that I know for that matter, due to the lack of job opportunities even for someone passionate about the IT field. We now have American IT workers being displaced by both H1-B visa holders, who are physically being flown in from foreign countries, as well as the continued use of foreign remote offshore workers…

    …How can our lawmakers allow this to happen to our country? This abuse of the H1-B Visa is not about a lack of talent here in the U.S. If our own pool of IT professionals were so incompetent- then why would companies like Disney have us train our replacements and spend months teaching them? …

    …It is very clear that the H1-B visa is about cutting wages and exploiting immigration guest workers programs at less pay. …

    …I challenge policy makers to ask themselves- what is the ripple effect of this program to our country? …

    …all employees who have been displaced by a foreign worker, whether the foreign worker is located in, or outside of, the United States territory, need to stand up for their rights and for the rights of all American citizen workers. Similarly, any American citizen or permanent resident who applied for a job but was denied the position because it was filled by an immigration visa employee should determine if that denial of the position was a violation of his/her rights. I implore displaced employees and employees denied positions to visit the following website for options in taking a stand and possibly recovering for the potential violation of his/her constitutional rights. If you feel that you are powerless in the face of this tsunami think again.

    http://www.ProtectUSworkers.org

    • Replies: @North Carolina Resident
    Thank you for posting about Disney workers being replaced by H1B guest workers. (Has Trump been asked about it? I'd like to see him and/or Senator Jeff Sessions lead an Al Sharpton style boycott march in front of Disney.)

    If you plan to continue posting here, please pick screen name, so we can follow you.

    All the best.
    , @ben tillman

    Your jobs have been given over to a foreign workforce. In the meantime you will be training your replacements until your jobs are 100 percent transferred over to them and if you don’t cooperate you will not receive any severance pay.
     
    Why are there never lawsuits over this stuff? It seems like clear-cut illegal discrimination based on national origin and, by disparate impact, race.
  175. @Wilkey
    I would add: the benefit cap hits London welfare recipients disproportionately. Sounds like the standard SWPL way of depopulating the big cities of "vibrant populations" and dumping them onto the provinces and 'burbs.

    That’s exactly it. They piled millions of immigrants up in the cities – massively compressed into minimal housing so most people in the country weren’t affected – and now they’re unleashing them into the smaller towns like opening a dam.

  176. @SPMoore8
    "Controlling" involves the use of force. The numbers of migrants is very large, far larger, it appears to me, than anything that say Australia has had to confront.

    So what do you do with the migrants, once you winkle them out? Put them into detention camps, or detention holds on ship, take them back to where they came from, offload them, and leave? That would provide endless opportunities for civil disturbances, if not flat out riots, which in turn will require force, and which in turn will cause casualties. Nobody can stomach that reality. Not yet, anyway.

    Frankly I don't think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it, but even if they did, they don't have the political will to use the force that it would require.

    The navy tows the boats back where they came from and then scuttles them.

    Very easy.

  177. @Cryptogenic
    Unfortunately this is the truth. English proles seem to grow increasingly retarded-looking. Drool Brittania. Still, they have a long way to go before they match the genetic caries of their 75 IQ grateful guests.

    Ever notice how the rhetoric of the greatness of immigrants makes them sound like vitamins? They're always "infusing," "energizing" and giving "boosts" to "tired" and "old" societies.
  178. @SPMoore8
    I just don't see that there's a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don't think there's a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico. I think it's just shortsighted love of profit.

    No question our cultures (US and EU) devalues children. Women have little security under current divorce regimes, men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.

    On the contrary, the "good life" is always expressed in terms of having "high status" (good schools) and "high income." Nothing else matters, and anything less is failure. You can even see this with people who have children: they have to be high status, and high earners. Nothing else matters.

    It's like the whole business with "careers". Nobody gives a sh*t when you are 65 and you announce that you used to be a VP for whatever at whosis bank. That wasn't a career, that was a job. The same applies to most careers jobs. They are jobs.

    But whatever. I don't think there's any master mind pulling the strings so I don't think there's any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.
    At least, not on a large scale.

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe

    I’m really surprised you in particular can’t see it.

  179. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Story Begins To Unravel About Drowned Syrian Boy

    Details about the Syrian family of the three-year old boy, who drowned as they made their way to Europe from Turkey on a small dingy, began to emerge recently and some things do not add up.

    According to The Wall Street Journal, Abdullah Kurdi, the little boy’s father, was living in a relatively safe area in a Turkish town for three years while working on construction sites for 50 Turkish lira (roughly $17) a day.

    However, Kurdi told a Syrian radio station it was not enough to support himself and his family and he relied on his sister Tima Kurdi, who is a 20-year resident of Canada, to assist in paying the rent.

    It should be noted that Tima told reporters Thursday that the family just came to Turkey last year, even though WSJ points out he came to Turkey three years ago, and his Facebook “shows pictures of the family in Istanbul crossing the Bosporus and feeding pigeons next to the famous Yeni Cami, or new mosque.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/07/story-begins-to-unravel-about-drowned-syrian-boy/#ixzz3l7SJvaV5

  180. @Anonym
    The one constant is Rupert Murdoch. In every single publication of his, a pro-immigration tone is taken. Murdoch is the literal archetype of the Cuckservative. Cucked by Blair and Wendy Deng, he has an unquenchable fever for immigration.

    Cucked by Blair and Wendy Deng

    Blair’s homosexual. Stories like that are designed to hide it.

  181. @km
    On my recent trip to Bavaria I did observe that the population was very old. It was a bit strange to be among so many grey-haired people in public spaces. But locals told me Bavaria was the best part of Germany, because it had the least immigrants. The standard of living seemed high, but the place was crowded. I guess it will get more crowded. Nothing seems possible to stop the slide toward demographic replacent. Westerners, especially women, are simply too decadent. It seems Germany is overcoming its past by importing violent antisemites....

    It’s perfectly possible to stop it. The only problem Europeans have is a hostile elite created by having a hostile media.

  182. @anon

    There’s some truth in the article.
     
    There is no truth in the article.

    The only way to increase prosperity is to increase productivity so you *want* a tight labor market to encourage technological innovation.

    Solving the problem with immigrant labor not only reduces productivity in the short term it destroys it over the long term because there is no incentive to invest in innovation.

    Employers are stuck in a tragedy of the commons dynamic where importing more labor is the easiest path but in the long term it is stupid.

    The only way to increase prosperity is to increase productivity so you *want* a tight labor market to encourage technological innovation.

    Not if you’re in it for the short-term buck.

    Employers are stuck in a tragedy of the commons dynamic where importing more labor is the easiest path but in the long term it is stupid.

    Thank you for making my point.

    • Replies: @anon
    Your point is that there is truth in the article.

    There is not a shred of truth in the article as the last 30 years overwhelmingly shows

    Employers in the West are as much a victim of hostile economic propaganda from people like Peston as everyone else.

    The *only* thing that can increase prosperity is increased productivity. Mass immigration has been destroying productivity for years hence why the entire western economy is in such a mess.

    Peston's article is yet another example of propaganda promoting the bankster fallacy.
  183. @Anonymous
    Sorry, I simply cannot agree with you.
    Thilo Sarrazin's recent book comprehensively and explicitly underlines the way the previous mass intake of third world labor into Germany happened to be a non-working, welfare chomping economic and fiscal disaster.

    Thilo Sarazzin’s point is that the Muslim immigrants, in the long-term, have made Germany worse off. In the short-term, Turkish Gasterbeiter did enrich German industrialists during the 60s and 70s. It was when they had children and grandchildren that their costs became apparent.

    I’d assume that Merkel and her corporate backers aren’t looking past a 10-year horizon. By then, they’ll mostly be retired. Then it’s someone else’s problem.

  184. @Anonymous
    It’s really a kind of truly bizarre doublethink – business leaders must act like amoral money-grubbing sociopaths to please the shareholders, but must unquestioningly accept every PC maxim to keep their careers, so they act like an amoral money-grubbing sociopath would if all the PC maxims were actually true.

    So perhaps that might be considered an internal contradiction in JohnnyWalker's theory. And perhaps should cause us to look elsewhere for an explanation of what we are observing.

    Nobody expects business leaders to accept every PC maxim. If this was true, a large percentage of corporate execs would be black and Latino. Silicon Valley would be hiring huge numbers of graduates of historically black colleges. The top investment banks and law firms would be minting huge numbers of NAM partners. Given that none of this has happened, I’d assume that business leaders are well aware of the shortcomings of some ethnic groups and not under that much pressure to change their thinking.

    Yes, it’s true that business leaders must mouth PC in public, but that doesn’t mean much. In public, we’re not allowed to tell women that they’re fat and ugly. In private, nobody questions why men chase hot girls and ignore the big girls. Bill Gates says he thinks every child is a learner, but nobody cares that he hires huge numbers of Indians and has made no meaningful attempt to hire blacks.

  185. @Priss Factor
    In history, blessings turn to curses and curses into blessings.

    Long ago, China created a powerful centralized government ruled over vast territories.
    Europe remained fragmented.
    It was a blessing for China as it was unified into a great power, and it was a curse for Europe as various kingdoms and principalities ceaselessly bashed one another.

    But over time, the competition among the various kingdoms and principalities led to great deal of dynamism and innovation among Europeans. A blessing. Meanwhile, unified and centralized China grew stagnant under the dominance of a single imperial ruling elite. A curse.

    In the 20th century, the competition among the European nations led to suicidal WWI and WWII. A curse.
    In the 20th century, China once again unified into one polity and grew into an economic powerhouse. A blessing.

    EU is a strange creature as it's a combination of the competition-among-states-model and unity under one governing principle. If the concept of EU only served Europeans, it might work. But EU is really WU, or world union, as it is helpless to stop Europe from merging with the rest of the world. EU couldn't do anything about EU turning into EAMU or Eurpoean-African-Middle-Eastern-Union with endless refugees or refuses.

    The problem is that there’s no such thing as a ‘European’ national identity. Europeans are either chauvinistic French/German/etc nationalists or they’re internationalists who love Europe and Africa and Asia.

    A resurgence of nationalism among Europeans will mean an end to these immigration-invasions, but it will also lead to a renewal of intra-European squabbling. The EU won’t survive this process.

    It’s a conundrum.

  186. @Chrisnonymous
    The costs of mistakes, lost stock and merchandise, lawsuits, absenteeism, etc are all real costs. I find it hard to believe that German employers really think Syrians and Germans are interchangeable labor inputs.

    Moreover, I find it very difficult to believe that German employers can't make calculations about the kind of country their children will inherit.

    I think it's more plausible that this is a case of social signaling/ identity--goodwhites vs badwhites, as Derb says.

    The costs of mistakes, lost stock and merchandise, lawsuits, absenteeism, etc are all real costs. I find it hard to believe that German employers really think Syrians and Germans are interchangeable labor inputs.

    They’re not, but a minimum-wage Syrian is still more economical than a $30/hr German. He’s easier to abuse too, as he’s non-unionized.

    Moreover, I find it very difficult to believe that German employers can’t make calculations about the kind of country their children will inherit.

    California businessmen didn’t back when they started to hire huge numbers of Mexican illegals during the late 70s and 80s. Those illegals eventually displaced a huge number of white Californians, including the more affluent. I really doubt German employers care about their country. The mentality is that they’ll make so much money that their children can afford to insulate themselves in a wealthy enclave, which is the norm in much of the world (especially Latin America).

  187. @Anonymous

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?
     
    Circa 1990, Germany had, by far, the highest factory wages in the world, and was increasingly uncompetitive as a result. They then had 18 years of the slowest wage growth in the world as lower skilled factory work was rapidly moved to elsewhere in Europe, in particular Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, and Hungary. As wages rose elsewhere but not in Germany, the country gradually regained its competitiveness.


    Sorry, mate, still not seeing it. Where is the evidence that Germany is suffering from a labor shortage?

    German auto workers average close to $70/hr.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/28/1049409/-German-auto-manufacturers-high-profits-and-high-pay-show-why-U-S-labor-laws-need-to-be-stronger

    Anytime wages go that high, industry claims there’s a “labor shortage.”

    Don’t be surprised to later read that auto wages have fallen and that lots of Syrian refugees ended up in the auto manufacturing factories.

  188. @Anonymous
    Germany currently has a very tight labor market, which is increasing wages and employment opportunities for German workers.

    Can you show us some evidence of these increasing wages?

    German industry has responded by demanding an increase in net migration, but this has been mostly blocked by powerful unions and right-wing ethnic interests. There are some visas (such as the Blue Card) aimed at bringing in foreign workers, but substantial non-EU labor migration is not feasible. Recently, there were attempts to open up the German labor market to immigration, but this was clamped down on.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn't "German industry" first prefer someone closer by?

    The Syrian refugees may not be geniuses, but they can at least work in factories and construction. That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries.

    How many years would be required for this to take effect, for workers who are "freed up" to get trained to "move up the ladder"? Wouldn't "German industry" prefer to immigrants already trained for "specialized industries"?

    Also, since the refugees are young, they won’t be consuming much in healthcare services and pension (yet).

    Don't many of them have families? Won't it be quicker for them to have families than to train a blue collar German for a "specialized industry"?

    Germany and the other EU states have indicated that they won’t be giving residency to the economic refugees, just the refugees fleeing war (ie most of them). This reflects the enduring influence of unions over politics in the EU. It’s easy to open the gate to refugees of wars in the Middle East, but economic migration isn’t so easy to push.

    Why can't the unions block all "refugees"?

    In the long-term, the Syrians may extract more wealth than they produce (for German corporate interests), but in the short term they’ll be utilized to drive down wages for highly-paid German workers.

    So a Syrian displaces a German from a construction job and the German construction worker goes on to plausibly compete for a "highly-paid" job in a "specialized industry"? Don't they alreaddy do this now though? I mean, if it's so easy to enter a high paying job, wouldn't German construction workers already be angling toward one and hence be increasing the supply?

    This doesn't increase the supply of highly paid workers, it only increases the supply of construction workers.

    Does neighboring EU labor not have access to the German market? Are there not millions of unemployed European men in Spain, France, Greece, England, etc.? Even if they are restricted from entry to Germany, wouldn’t “German industry” first prefer someone closer by?

    Neighboring workers aren’t coming in large enough numbers. Spaniards and Greeks want high wages to abandon their homes for Germany. Syrians will take whatever they are paid. Hence the preference for Syrians.

    America’s construction industry often employers minimum wage Mexicans over unemployed youth. Why? They’re work longer hours for less money, with a readiness to relocate anywhere.

    How many years would be required for this to take effect, for workers who are “freed up” to get trained to “move up the ladder”? Wouldn’t “German industry” prefer to immigrants already trained for “specialized industries”?

    German industry has been pleading with the govt to open up the country to Indian engineers. Labor unions have mostly blocked this (so far).

    Don’t many of them have families? Won’t it be quicker for them to have families than to train a blue collar German for a “specialized industry”?

    In the short-term, they won’t be bringing over their families.

    So a Syrian displaces a German from a construction job and the German construction worker goes on to plausibly compete for a “highly-paid” job in a “specialized industry”? Don’t they alreaddy do this now though? I mean, if it’s so easy to enter a high paying job, wouldn’t German construction workers already be angling toward one and hence be increasing the supply?

    Sure they do, but they often have to entice the construction worker with much higher pay. Especially if the construction worker needs more education and has to relocate. If Syrians drive down construction wages, then some German construction workers will willingly leave their industry for a more specialized industry.

  189. Peston has described himself as “culturally Jewish”. See The Jewish Chronicle.

    Of course, Israel won’t take all those high-IQ future entrepreneurs from Syria, Afghanistan and Eritrea because the Jewish community is famous for not caring about money.

  190. @Ed
    Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she's inviting to Germany will change the nation.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/germanys-merkel-says-record-refugee-influx-change-nation-102904757.html

    "What we are experiencing now is that will occupy and change our country in coming years," she said after 20,000 migrants arrived at the weekend alone.

    "We want the change to be positive, and we believe we can accomplish that," she added.

    Merkel said scenes of spontaneous solidarity from hundreds of Germans who greeted families fleeing wars in Syria and beyond at railway stations with gifts and welcome signs were "very moving" and "breathtaking".

    "That is something very valuable, especially in view of our history," she said, expressing joy that "Germany has become a country that many people abroad associate with hope".

    “Well at least she acknowledges the masses of refugees she’s inviting to Germany will change the nation.”

    True, it will destroy Germany’s historic identity as a homeland for ethnic Germans, fragment its society, overburden its social services, lower its national average IQ and reduce its famed economic competitiveness and innovation.

    But at least left-wing Germans will feel better about their country’s fascist past through the morally redemptive infusions of non-Western peoples.

  191. @Anonymous
    “Most refugees are young, well educated & highly motivated – just the sort of people we are looking for” Daimler CEO

    Um, aren't there millions of men in Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, and Ukraine who would fit this description and who cannot find jobs?

    Sure, but they won’t work for slave wages like refugees will. At least part of the refugees, the rest will live off social benefits. The latter is fine and dandy for business. Let tax- payers foot the bill.

  192. @ben tillman

    All she has to do is work 16 hours a week at a minimum wage job to collect a weekly income of 811.37 pounds. That’s US$64,550 per year for working a 16 hour minimum wage job. And that’s the “harsh” policy imposed by the Tory/Liberal Dem coalition government.
     
    No, it's much worse than that: (1) She also gets the wages from the part-time job, and (2) The benefits are not taxed, so the receipt of $64,550 in benefits is the the equivalent of a much higher pre-tax income.

    Though a lot of that benefit will go in rent i.e. in profit to some landlord. Plenty of Housing Benefit millionaires in London, though for obvious reasons they don’t crow about it.

  193. @SPMoore8
    "Controlling" involves the use of force. The numbers of migrants is very large, far larger, it appears to me, than anything that say Australia has had to confront.

    So what do you do with the migrants, once you winkle them out? Put them into detention camps, or detention holds on ship, take them back to where they came from, offload them, and leave? That would provide endless opportunities for civil disturbances, if not flat out riots, which in turn will require force, and which in turn will cause casualties. Nobody can stomach that reality. Not yet, anyway.

    Frankly I don't think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it, but even if they did, they don't have the political will to use the force that it would require.

    “Frankly I don’t think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it…”

    Oh bullshit. Rescuing the ships requires far more manpower, because once the migrants know you will accept them, the more that come. Tow a few boats back to Libya and they would stop coming entirely – problem solved, done, over. We know this. Australia has done this, and their solution has worked. The current migrant population has exploded because European navies are rescuing them in the Mediterranean.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The current migrant population has exploded because European navies are rescuing them in the Mediterranean.
     
    Anagram alert! I first read that as "naives" (sans dieresis), and it worked just as well, as in equally accurate.
  194. @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    What is the average English working class white like?

    “Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.”

    They aren’t. Only about 40% of Afghan and Bangladeshi immigrant adults living in Britain are employed – and that includes part-time work. Meanwhile New Zealand immigrants, who are mostly of Anglo-Celtic stock, have an 80% employment rate.

    Great Britain may have a large, sad white underclass, but it did not get to be the 19th richest country in the world (per capita income) because of a large, dumb, lazy population. Same can be said for its offshoots. The Anglosphere countries – Canada (#15), USA (#10), Australia (#5) and New Zealand (#21), Ireland (#11) – all do very, very well by any economic measure. Only Germanic/Scandinavian countries do consistently better.

    The underclasses of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India are proportionally far larger, far dumber, and far more pathetic than anything Great Britain can muster.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "The underclasses of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India are proportionally far larger, far dumber, and far more pathetic than anything Great Britain can muster."

    Most of the underclass in these countries still do not even have indoor plumbing, even though it is the 21st Century for crying out loud.

    When Westerners start riding self driving cars, the Indian, Afghani, and Pakistani underclass still won't have a toilet to piss and crap on. They are still in the stone age.

  195. @iSteveFan

    I think Singapore has tried pretty hard to raise the birthrate of its citizens, without much success.
     
    Given that Singapore has one of the highest population densities in the world, maybe the smart people not having too many kids are onto something. But I understand what you are getting at.

    Singaporeans will only consider having children if it can be guaranteed that they will be perfect .

  196. @yaqub the mad scientist
    "That’d free up German workers to move up the professional ladder into more specialized industries."

    Challenge: I've heard this claim for 25 years in regards to the US. Can you identify where this actually happened here?

    You are right. The problem is that in every wave of peon class immigrants come others of higher abilities. The early movers are also often in frontier mode, even if the frontier is a nice, placid, western town.

    They will work for less and work more enthusiastically for a time; living, as has been noted in this neighbourhood, in cramped accommodations that locals reject.

    The original inhabitants are demoralised at multiple levels. The normal lifecycle of school leavers starting somewhere at relatively low wages before rising up (blue collar or white collar) is disrupted. The immigrants receive favourable treatment in many ways; not least their own ethnic networks which often outflank more individualistic westerners.

    The community bell curve of appropriate opportunities that – ideally – provides decent employment for the less able as well as the more gifted is devastated as the lower end drifts into welfare, the upper end becomes isolated from the wider community, and the vital middle withdraws and despairs.

    Without mass migration a nation will adjust. Not least the less able become more valuable; absent communitarian competition trust is retained and optimism remains buoyant. If there are problems the community must sort it out, not a Leninist fraternity.

    Germany organised the Euro so that it retained hard money, a competitive currency and access to markets and pools of labour; at devastating costs to much of the rest of the Eurozone. Germany tilts the playing field in its favour, then later demands the rest of Europe pay the price for its artificially boosted Labour demands. Its productivity advances, as noted in these parts, already having evaporated.

    The EU is an machine for the destruction of nations. Overlooked in this crisis is the calamity of European agriculture. Alternatively neglected and coddled the EU’s massive support mechanisms have proven hurtful and shortsighted.

    Vive La Révolution!

  197. @Anonymous
    Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool.

    It is interesting that the white working class is often demonised by people who can hardly contain their excitement about ‘exotic’ people who will surely manifest a loathing of these bien pensant types in a remarkably short space of time.

    Luckily the goo-goo liberal is carefully trained not to notice the sneers of the brown exotics.

  198. Within a generation Germany as we know it will have ceased to exist. Merkel is in the process of ethnically cleansing her own people who are only too happy to preside over their demographic demise.

  199. @rvg
    What is even the point of all this blog when unless you are senile, you will notice that even with zero immigration, the US already has the demographics of the Dominican Republic or PR in the millenial and generation z.

    It keeps us from offing ourselves.

  200. @snorlax
    I think just pointing at business' desire for low wages half misses the mark. We have a somewhat bizarre situation where self-serving greed is blindly filtered through PC ideology, or at least spherical-cow supply and demand graphs. They act as though there is no difference between immigrants from Switzerland, Syria and Somalia, so therefore more people = lower wages + no downsides!

    Openly conspiring to impoversh the working class for a few extra bucks is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but it is absolute, career-destroying, verboten thoughtcrime to think the thought that maybe skyrocketing crime, white flight, corruption and increasingly anti-business politics will be more harmful to one's business than slightly reduced wages will help.

    It's really a kind of truly bizarre doublethink - business leaders must act like amoral money-grubbing sociopaths to please the shareholders, but must unquestioningly accept every PC maxim to keep their careers, so they act like an amoral money-grubbing sociopath would if all the PC maxims were actually true.

    It's the type of thing the Czechs like to write about. Like The Power of the Powerless but more Kafkaesque.

    “Openly conspiring to impoversh the working class for a few extra bucks is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but it is absolute, career-destroying, verboten thoughtcrime to think the thought that maybe skyrocketing crime, white flight, corruption and increasingly anti-business politics will be more harmful to one’s business than slightly reduced wages will help.”

    Not the same thing as the imported underclass, but my well-known company is now at least 20% Indian for salaried employees, and it’s a manufacturing company. No one is supposed to question or discuss it, just pretend like it happened randomly, like a particularly windy Summer day.

  201. @SPMoore8
    I just don't see that there's a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don't think there's a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico. I think it's just shortsighted love of profit.

    No question our cultures (US and EU) devalues children. Women have little security under current divorce regimes, men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.

    On the contrary, the "good life" is always expressed in terms of having "high status" (good schools) and "high income." Nothing else matters, and anything less is failure. You can even see this with people who have children: they have to be high status, and high earners. Nothing else matters.

    It's like the whole business with "careers". Nobody gives a sh*t when you are 65 and you announce that you used to be a VP for whatever at whosis bank. That wasn't a career, that was a job. The same applies to most careers jobs. They are jobs.

    But whatever. I don't think there's any master mind pulling the strings so I don't think there's any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.
    At least, not on a large scale.

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don’t think there’s a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico.

    If there’s not a cabal, someone is doing a damned good job of making it look like there is. A number of Islamic State cadres were calling for Muslims to invade Europe’s shores and from the looks of it they were being obeyed. Within our ranks, at least one Jewish commentator remarked of post-1965 immigration, “The more diverse America is, the safer Jews are!” (He was quite wrong, of course, but it is perception and intent, not reality and result, we are concerned about here.)

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    I try to resist thinking in terms of conspiracies. I think it usually muddies the water unnecessarily.

    Note that when people support "the narative" or follow their ethnic interests this is not the same as a conspiracy.

    On the other hand Ye Gods when a previously apparently hard-headed woman like Merkel acts as if wanting to bring down the temple of European civilisation on her own people what, as Hillary would say, difference does it make?

    I am a great believer in the cock up theory of history but people like Merkel are walking open-eyed towards disaster. When does a conspiracy merely become short hand for the inexplicable?
  202. @anonymous
    Speaking of H1-B visas:


    "EXCLUSIVE — Displaced Disney Cast Member: How They Replaced Me, Other Americans, With Cheap Foreigners On H1B Visas", by Displaced Disney Cast Member7 Sep 2015, Breitbart:


    "...Twenty years of hard work, technical skill building, the fostering of relationships and a bachelor’s degree in Information Technology...

    ...company’s earnings were up well over 20 percent... a new CIO, Tilak Mandadi, was appointed...

    ...the phone rang ... well connected... told me that since I had such a great reputation as a problem solver, had just cleared up a major outage situation the week prior and since I recently received the very highest possible performance review by management, that the meeting must be one to recognize my recent contributions to the company with perhaps a promotion or at the very least a bonus....

    ...I was in a room surrounded by employees of excellence. ...All of you in this room will be losing your jobs in the next 90 days. Your last day of employment for this company will be January 30, 2015. Your jobs have been given over to a foreign workforce. In the meantime you will be training your replacements until your jobs are 100 percent transferred over to them and if you don’t cooperate you will not receive any severance pay. Also, if we don’t feel confident that we have captured everything that you do we can, at our discretion, keep you longer than the 90 days until we have captured everything that you do with this job...

    ...A huge influx of foreign workers from South Asia started to arrive at numerous buildings on the Disney Orlando campus in very large numbers. A foreign language was suddenly being spoken throughout the building hallways. Everywhere I went, including the company cafeteria, the composition of the company changed so much in the period of only a week. ...

    ...the foreign workers insisted that they record all the audio as well as everything that we did on our computer screens with recorded video during the training meetings...

    ...I actually received a significant pay raise during my last 30 days with the company because I had received the highest possible job rating in performance reviews....

    ...I would never recommend the IT field to my own children or anybody else that I know for that matter, due to the lack of job opportunities even for someone passionate about the IT field. We now have American IT workers being displaced by both H1-B visa holders, who are physically being flown in from foreign countries, as well as the continued use of foreign remote offshore workers...

    ...How can our lawmakers allow this to happen to our country? This abuse of the H1-B Visa is not about a lack of talent here in the U.S. If our own pool of IT professionals were so incompetent- then why would companies like Disney have us train our replacements and spend months teaching them? ...

    ...It is very clear that the H1-B visa is about cutting wages and exploiting immigration guest workers programs at less pay. ...

    ...I challenge policy makers to ask themselves- what is the ripple effect of this program to our country? ...

    ...all employees who have been displaced by a foreign worker, whether the foreign worker is located in, or outside of, the United States territory, need to stand up for their rights and for the rights of all American citizen workers. Similarly, any American citizen or permanent resident who applied for a job but was denied the position because it was filled by an immigration visa employee should determine if that denial of the position was a violation of his/her rights. I implore displaced employees and employees denied positions to visit the following website for options in taking a stand and possibly recovering for the potential violation of his/her constitutional rights. If you feel that you are powerless in the face of this tsunami think again.

    www.ProtectUSworkers.org "

     

    Thank you for posting about Disney workers being replaced by H1B guest workers. (Has Trump been asked about it? I’d like to see him and/or Senator Jeff Sessions lead an Al Sharpton style boycott march in front of Disney.)

    If you plan to continue posting here, please pick screen name, so we can follow you.

    All the best.

  203. @SPMoore8
    Sounds like the BBC Economics Editor is providing precisely the kind of justification for this refugee influx that I surmised this weekend. I realize most people here think the consequences of this will be dire (and in the US, too), and they may be right, but it all goes back to having slow, or negative, population growth.

    On the other hand, many posters argue that population shrinkage is a good thing; it would be good to have some external articles on that, as well as case studies. (Black Death being an obvious but radical example, but describing a very different economy.)

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won't do that to marry or have children.

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.

    Well said on the values Mr. Moore. But that ideology already exists–various forms of Christianity, evangelicals, trad Catholics, (stretching “Christianity”) Mormons.

    What’s happening “under the covers” is that the white population in white nations is skewing more “pro-natalist” as selection takes it’s toll. But that is covered by the huge demographic tsunami of mass immigration. Absent that, white nations’ populations would have peaked, then would fall a bit and then recover into some sort of steady\quasi-steady state as family life became more affordable and more people being born were family oriented sorts.

    Unfortunately, the white haters have jumped on this moment of demographic transition and with mass immigration and “diversity” have plunged in the dagger.

    ~~~

    My main argument here with you is that you also don’t just seek “lots of children”–i.e. high fertility. What you seek is robust eugenic fertility. The smart, strong, healthy, capable having lots of children; the stupid, weak, sickly, incompetent having fewer–ideally none.

    That’s what the West used to have–strong selection for IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation, along with health. But now the welfare state encourages the screw ups to breed. And even more pernicious, the reigning ideology encourages smart and capable women *not* to breed, by pushing feminism, female careerism, the enviro-sensitive “two children” limit.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Males--especially the intellectually oriented types (well represented here)--tend to not quite grasp the strength of conformism in women. They really do sort of "do what they are told". If the reigning ideology tells 'em "yo go girl"--you need a career, you need to explore your sexuality, you need to delay marriage till you're 30 and "ready"--then that's what they tend to do. The biological imperatives are nonetheless still in play. And a bunch--maybe most--of these gals start to feel that clock ticking--especially when others in their circle start to marry--and sort of "wake up" around 30, stomp their feet and expect a husband\father\provider to appear. But basically they are doing what they are told. We have lot fertility, because the ideology tells women to pursue a "life script" that delivers it--for many of them zero fertility! Likewise ideologically. The schools, the media, all the institutions push PC, diversity, "tolerance" ... women follow along. Standing up for your race and culture against invasion and attack is ... being "mean!"

    I think a lot of HBD folks--in part because the damage of this mass immigration crime is so in-your-face, it's hard to credit anything else--fail to give due credit to how much of the melt down of the West revolves around feminism, female "empowerment".

    1) The decline of white fertility--and worse smart white fertility--via the push for female careerism, and against traditional marital arrangements.

    2) The replacement of the male societal ethos--protection--with a female ethos--nurturing.

    Between the two we have empty white wombs and white societies waving in invaders.
  204. @AnotherDad

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.
     
    Well said on the values Mr. Moore. But that ideology already exists--various forms of Christianity, evangelicals, trad Catholics, (stretching "Christianity") Mormons.

    What's happening "under the covers" is that the white population in white nations is skewing more "pro-natalist" as selection takes it's toll. But that is covered by the huge demographic tsunami of mass immigration. Absent that, white nations' populations would have peaked, then would fall a bit and then recover into some sort of steady\quasi-steady state as family life became more affordable and more people being born were family oriented sorts.

    Unfortunately, the white haters have jumped on this moment of demographic transition and with mass immigration and "diversity" have plunged in the dagger.

    ~~~

    My main argument here with you is that you also don't just seek "lots of children"--i.e. high fertility. What you seek is robust eugenic fertility. The smart, strong, healthy, capable having lots of children; the stupid, weak, sickly, incompetent having fewer--ideally none.

    That's what the West used to have--strong selection for IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation, along with health. But now the welfare state encourages the screw ups to breed. And even more pernicious, the reigning ideology encourages smart and capable women *not* to breed, by pushing feminism, female careerism, the enviro-sensitive "two children" limit.

    Males–especially the intellectually oriented types (well represented here)–tend to not quite grasp the strength of conformism in women. They really do sort of “do what they are told”. If the reigning ideology tells ’em “yo go girl”–you need a career, you need to explore your sexuality, you need to delay marriage till you’re 30 and “ready”–then that’s what they tend to do. The biological imperatives are nonetheless still in play. And a bunch–maybe most–of these gals start to feel that clock ticking–especially when others in their circle start to marry–and sort of “wake up” around 30, stomp their feet and expect a husband\father\provider to appear. But basically they are doing what they are told. We have lot fertility, because the ideology tells women to pursue a “life script” that delivers it–for many of them zero fertility! Likewise ideologically. The schools, the media, all the institutions push PC, diversity, “tolerance” … women follow along. Standing up for your race and culture against invasion and attack is … being “mean!”

    I think a lot of HBD folks–in part because the damage of this mass immigration crime is so in-your-face, it’s hard to credit anything else–fail to give due credit to how much of the melt down of the West revolves around feminism, female “empowerment”.

    1) The decline of white fertility–and worse smart white fertility–via the push for female careerism, and against traditional marital arrangements.

    2) The replacement of the male societal ethos–protection–with a female ethos–nurturing.

    Between the two we have empty white wombs and white societies waving in invaders.

  205. @Malcolm X-Lax

    So to put it another way, it is arguably particularly useful to Germany to have an influx of young grateful families from Syria or elsewhere, who may well be keen to toil and strive to rebuild their lives and prove to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).
     
    Hey, how about that! And named "Preston" no less! By the way, was watching Fox this morning. Even this "right wing" network is propagandizing for mass arab and african muslim immigration into Europe. Why is Fox referring to political leaders who oppose this mass migration pejoratively as "right wing" and the left-wing leaders cheering it on as "compassionate?" Btw, most of the "refugees" are young and male. Enjoy your Rotherhams, Europeans.

    And named “Preston” no less!

    Peston. This is Robert Preston.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    "76 Libyans led the big parade,
    With 110 Afghans right behind ...."

    If Robert Preston was still around he could probably do Merkel in drag for "the Music Man"
  206. @Lagertha
    For some interesting overpopulation doomsday scenarios, you should look into my mother's childhood classmate's ideas: Pentti Linkola. Some of his ideas are so intense that I've seen them redacted on Wikipedia. But, brace yourself, this is stomach-churning stuff from a famous, academic recluse. Everyone knows about him in Finland, but nobody wants anyone to know that you know about his views!

    Thanks for the tip!

  207. He has a low(masculine) 2D:4D ratio.

  208. @Reg Cæsar

    And named “Preston” no less!
     
    Peston. This is Robert Preston.

    “76 Libyans led the big parade,
    With 110 Afghans right behind ….”

    If Robert Preston was still around he could probably do Merkel in drag for “the Music Man”

  209. @anonymous
    Speaking of H1-B visas:


    "EXCLUSIVE — Displaced Disney Cast Member: How They Replaced Me, Other Americans, With Cheap Foreigners On H1B Visas", by Displaced Disney Cast Member7 Sep 2015, Breitbart:


    "...Twenty years of hard work, technical skill building, the fostering of relationships and a bachelor’s degree in Information Technology...

    ...company’s earnings were up well over 20 percent... a new CIO, Tilak Mandadi, was appointed...

    ...the phone rang ... well connected... told me that since I had such a great reputation as a problem solver, had just cleared up a major outage situation the week prior and since I recently received the very highest possible performance review by management, that the meeting must be one to recognize my recent contributions to the company with perhaps a promotion or at the very least a bonus....

    ...I was in a room surrounded by employees of excellence. ...All of you in this room will be losing your jobs in the next 90 days. Your last day of employment for this company will be January 30, 2015. Your jobs have been given over to a foreign workforce. In the meantime you will be training your replacements until your jobs are 100 percent transferred over to them and if you don’t cooperate you will not receive any severance pay. Also, if we don’t feel confident that we have captured everything that you do we can, at our discretion, keep you longer than the 90 days until we have captured everything that you do with this job...

    ...A huge influx of foreign workers from South Asia started to arrive at numerous buildings on the Disney Orlando campus in very large numbers. A foreign language was suddenly being spoken throughout the building hallways. Everywhere I went, including the company cafeteria, the composition of the company changed so much in the period of only a week. ...

    ...the foreign workers insisted that they record all the audio as well as everything that we did on our computer screens with recorded video during the training meetings...

    ...I actually received a significant pay raise during my last 30 days with the company because I had received the highest possible job rating in performance reviews....

    ...I would never recommend the IT field to my own children or anybody else that I know for that matter, due to the lack of job opportunities even for someone passionate about the IT field. We now have American IT workers being displaced by both H1-B visa holders, who are physically being flown in from foreign countries, as well as the continued use of foreign remote offshore workers...

    ...How can our lawmakers allow this to happen to our country? This abuse of the H1-B Visa is not about a lack of talent here in the U.S. If our own pool of IT professionals were so incompetent- then why would companies like Disney have us train our replacements and spend months teaching them? ...

    ...It is very clear that the H1-B visa is about cutting wages and exploiting immigration guest workers programs at less pay. ...

    ...I challenge policy makers to ask themselves- what is the ripple effect of this program to our country? ...

    ...all employees who have been displaced by a foreign worker, whether the foreign worker is located in, or outside of, the United States territory, need to stand up for their rights and for the rights of all American citizen workers. Similarly, any American citizen or permanent resident who applied for a job but was denied the position because it was filled by an immigration visa employee should determine if that denial of the position was a violation of his/her rights. I implore displaced employees and employees denied positions to visit the following website for options in taking a stand and possibly recovering for the potential violation of his/her constitutional rights. If you feel that you are powerless in the face of this tsunami think again.

    www.ProtectUSworkers.org "

     

    Your jobs have been given over to a foreign workforce. In the meantime you will be training your replacements until your jobs are 100 percent transferred over to them and if you don’t cooperate you will not receive any severance pay.

    Why are there never lawsuits over this stuff? It seems like clear-cut illegal discrimination based on national origin and, by disparate impact, race.

    • Replies: @North Carolina Resident
    @ben tillman

    Why are there never lawsuits over this stuff (Disney replacing American tech workers with imported H1B serfs)? They seem to be rare. My guess - Layoffs are orchestrated by employment lawyers. In exchange for a severance, workers are required to sign a document agreeing not to sue. Also, white, make IT types seem not to be the litigious type.
    Here's an example. Kevin Flanagan was a computer programmer who worked for The Bank of America in Concord, California, USA.
    Flanagan shot himself to death in the parking lot of Bank of America's Concord Technology Center after he and colleagues were laid off in April 2003. The lay-offs were due to the company outsourcing many computer-related jobs to less expensive workers.


    See tech insurgent (dot) com. The famous blogger "Tunnel Rat" documents IT worker displacement and lawsuits.
    A few years ago, an Indian outsourcing firm sued him over his blog posts. His original blog site got taken down by court order.


    Also, go to Youtube and search Cohen and Grigsby. Watch the 4 minute 51 second video from that law firm's promotional video.


    I copied this from Wikipedia's Cohen and Grigsby entry.

    In August 2007, Cohen & Grigsby won national press exposure and the Ethics Dunces Award from ProEthics Ltd.

    In a video of a marketing seminar, featured speaker and Cohen & Grigsby Marketing direcotor, Lawrence Lebowitz explains methods employers can use to defeat a provision in employment based immigration law, which requires that the position be advertised to ensure that there are no willing and qualified U.S. professionals who want the job.

    "Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified and interested U.S. worker. And you know, in a sense that may sound funny, but it's what we are trying to do here. We are complying with the law, fully, but our objective is to get this person a greencard." —Lawrence Lebowitz

    Norm Matloff, a Computer Science professor with the University of California at Davis, spoke with the Christian Science Monitor, stating that there is nothing new in the video and that he had received a document listing numerous methods to deny employment to U.S. professionals in favor of foreign workers.
    The Programmers Guild was able to make a short Fair Use video segment prior to the removal of the entire series from the originally posted YouTube channel. Lou Dobbs reported on the issue and Senator Chuck Grassley and Representative Lamar S. Smith approached the Department of Labor seeking an investigation.
    , @AnAnon
    there was a case in Texas, and the court rules that Americans are not considered a protected class on some basis or another.
  210. @Wilkey
    "Frankly I don’t think the US nor EU has the manpower required for it..."

    Oh bullshit. Rescuing the ships requires far more manpower, because once the migrants know you will accept them, the more that come. Tow a few boats back to Libya and they would stop coming entirely - problem solved, done, over. We know this. Australia has done this, and their solution has worked. The current migrant population has exploded because European navies are rescuing them in the Mediterranean.

    The current migrant population has exploded because European navies are rescuing them in the Mediterranean.

    Anagram alert! I first read that as “naives” (sans dieresis), and it worked just as well, as in equally accurate.

  211. @SPMoore8
    I just don't see that there's a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don't think there's a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico. I think it's just shortsighted love of profit.

    No question our cultures (US and EU) devalues children. Women have little security under current divorce regimes, men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.

    On the contrary, the "good life" is always expressed in terms of having "high status" (good schools) and "high income." Nothing else matters, and anything less is failure. You can even see this with people who have children: they have to be high status, and high earners. Nothing else matters.

    It's like the whole business with "careers". Nobody gives a sh*t when you are 65 and you announce that you used to be a VP for whatever at whosis bank. That wasn't a career, that was a job. The same applies to most careers jobs. They are jobs.

    But whatever. I don't think there's any master mind pulling the strings so I don't think there's any master mind who is going to convince a bunch of millenials to live in constant near poverty and near constant debt just so they can marry for love at 24 and have 5 kids. Just not going to happen.
    At least, not on a large scale.

    Women have little security under current divorce regimes…

    Good. The late Daniel Amnéus, a hero of the MRA types (though he wasn’t one himself), pointed out that when divorce law grossly favored men, divorce was rare, especially in the middle class backbone of the population. It was once that courts moved the pendulum the other way, especially in regard to custody, that the divorce rate rose. Women had less of a sense of responsibility to family and society, or they were simply weaker. Men also feared for their reputations.

    …men are not held sufficiently responsible, neither childbirth nor parenthood are held up as positive sacrifices.

    “Men”? If you live Adrian Peterson’s lifestyle without Adrian Peterson’s income, they can’t hold you responsible because you don’t have the means. Married, employed men as far as I know are still held responsible.

  212. @Lagertha
    Everyone in the EU is afraid of being called a Nazi...the imagery of masses of people in stations, refugee camps, getting snagged on razor wire, hapless guards with guns & batons being screamed at by angry hoards of bearded men; squalid trains no doubt smelling of human waste and B.O., slowly making their way somewhere, or just sitting on the tracks. Plus, summer is over now, and the cool rainy days have arrived in central and northern Europe, and migrants appear in rags and thin clothes in most shots.

    The photos from the NYT and many media orgs have been disturbing (often staged to show as many women and babies as possible). I find it ironic that the latest NYT Magazine did not Photoshop hijabs onto the images of those 95% men on those boats, packed in like sardines.

    This is a disaster now, which has no solution. The winter comes quickly to Europe, and that damn rain; no country wants images of babies and children lying in the gutter on some European city street. Merkel and EU dweebs have to stay up all night for weeks to figure out how they are going to shame their citizens to pay for all these people who will need assistance for generations - taxes will go way up, there's no other way.

    Those EU sanctions for Russia seem like a joke now, and Putin gets to have the last laugh as the German economy will be affected, as will all the other EU nations that will be shamed to take 75% more (just guessing) even if some of the countries have 12% unemployment. There's a brain-drain going on at the same time in some of the Nordic countries: their smartest, most educated 25-35 year-olds are opting to go abroad (including the USA) for their careers - so not good as they are the largest tax payers.

    And, I agree that multiculturalism has not not worked in Europe, and diversity is just a "My Little Pony" naive idea that has turned many Europeans against paying social welfare benefits for more idle men, yes, it is mostly men, in their countries. Many migrants carry this phony idea that they are from "war-torn" countries or are escaping persecution - I mean, people make-up stuff all the time. Petty crime, vandalism, rape and now things like knife slashing in IKEA or other public places are just increasing.

    I have never seen NYT print an honest investigative article about who is behind the increase in all the rapes and gang-like attacks by migrant men against native populations. No articles as to how the boundaries are drawn so tightly by the parents of Muslim boys (forget girls, duh), in particular, to not affiliate with native boys, well, yeah, maybe in soccer (and the Turks on the national team has been used thousands of times). But, getting back to Merkel, she will fight tooth and nail to not be called a Nazi.

    I blame the Saudis (well, all the Gulf States) for just about everything these last 2 decades, I always have, since 9/11...even decades earlier. That part of the world is still having their primitive and infantile arguments: Sunni vs. Shiite. Nothing good has been technologically developed (STEM) in that Muslim region, for the greater good of mankind, for 50 years now, when all the EU countries and USA moved on/prospered/advanced after WW2. And, liberals, especially, of all nations, need to start admitting how being female just really sucks in most, if not all, of the middle east. It sucks to be an animal, too - I'm so grossed-out by halal.

    Let's just all blow-off going to that stupid WCup to punish that part of the world. It's about the only thing we can do. Although I am not a fan of FoxSports, I will watch the matches on television...or I'll go to our local bar.

    Everyone in the EU is afraid of being called a Nazi…

    A notable exception being the Danes. Their country was occupied by the Krauts, so they take this as the sleazy insult it is meant to be, and resist. Why the Dutch and Belgians don’t do the same, I don’t know. Do they even bother to use this ruse on the Geerts and the Pims?

    Finns, one would think, would be highly vulnerable to being called “Nazis”, as their country was allied with Germany, if only by default. But it doesn’t seem to work on them, either.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    I know: only a dork like me who cares about soccer would send a post this late buried under so much intense new news: FIFA is just desperate to get the English Premier League to change its entire, decades-long, existing schedule (August-May) to accommodate the Qatar WCup. Players and team owners don't want to change their life's schedule (and behemoth, lucrative business model) to accommodate this particular tournament held in the wrong location. So far, the discussions are going nowhere because the season is on. There is just too much money in the P L.

    Most WCups (and Olympics) are money losers for the host countries. US WCup ('94) in past as well as '84 Olympics, broke even/ made money because they used the existing stadiums in LA area (i.e. Rose Bowl/Pasadena) to host (also excellent CA sunny weather) and, no crazy-expensive new arenas were built - USA has always been sport crazy, and, duh, the football stadiums (NFL or NCAA) are really nice in almost every state.

    So, PL team owners don't want to bother with changing their lives or the players' lives to accommodate a country (Qatar was a bad, bad, bad, corrupt choice) that should never have been chosen because of the summer heat. FIFA can not put pressure on PL because members (I mean everyone; including the players) are so rich that they can just ignore the whole thing. They're certainly not going to give-in this early, or so soon after Brazil.

    PL is the ultimate league everyone wants to play for; attend the games, etc. PL is the most successful and lucrative league in history. The PL does not want the inconvenience to change their schedule to accommodate FIFA which has lost the respect of the soccer community.

    Soccer players are making more money in PL without even bothering with the WCup. And, because the WCup is every 4 years, many veteran players don't want to lose younger teammates to a WCup interruption. And, of course, the owners/managers/coaches don't like that either.

    The best players in the world are very particular about their "body/agility/energy schedule." Let's face it, they have an expiration date on their heads, and messing with time-honored schedules and rituals of these athletes is a problem for FIFA. In the end, everyone is probably going to have to be paid A LOT! if they decide to come to Qatar in January.

    June/July was marvelous in Rio...during the SA winter. How FIFA didn't think about the summer heat of Qatar just goes to show you they don't give a damn about the players/families/fans/slave labor that built those stadiums (just like they don't give a damn about the EU migrants/Syrian refugees). And, they got busted this year! - finally!

    And really? Who would want to go to Qatar? As a woman, would I be allowed to drink beer on a deck with shorts on, could I walk home alone to my hotel? No party-city on the gorgeous beaches like in Rio. I can't imagine festivals with drunken youth dancing and partying wearing bikinis and shorts. Nope, never gonna happen. I'm glad my son came home alive from Rio!

  213. @ben tillman

    Your jobs have been given over to a foreign workforce. In the meantime you will be training your replacements until your jobs are 100 percent transferred over to them and if you don’t cooperate you will not receive any severance pay.
     
    Why are there never lawsuits over this stuff? It seems like clear-cut illegal discrimination based on national origin and, by disparate impact, race.

    Why are there never lawsuits over this stuff (Disney replacing American tech workers with imported H1B serfs)? They seem to be rare. My guess – Layoffs are orchestrated by employment lawyers. In exchange for a severance, workers are required to sign a document agreeing not to sue. Also, white, make IT types seem not to be the litigious type.
    Here’s an example. Kevin Flanagan was a computer programmer who worked for The Bank of America in Concord, California, USA.
    Flanagan shot himself to death in the parking lot of Bank of America’s Concord Technology Center after he and colleagues were laid off in April 2003. The lay-offs were due to the company outsourcing many computer-related jobs to less expensive workers.

    See tech insurgent (dot) com. The famous blogger “Tunnel Rat” documents IT worker displacement and lawsuits.
    A few years ago, an Indian outsourcing firm sued him over his blog posts. His original blog site got taken down by court order.

    Also, go to Youtube and search Cohen and Grigsby. Watch the 4 minute 51 second video from that law firm’s promotional video.

    I copied this from Wikipedia’s Cohen and Grigsby entry.

    In August 2007, Cohen & Grigsby won national press exposure and the Ethics Dunces Award from ProEthics Ltd.

    In a video of a marketing seminar, featured speaker and Cohen & Grigsby Marketing direcotor, Lawrence Lebowitz explains methods employers can use to defeat a provision in employment based immigration law, which requires that the position be advertised to ensure that there are no willing and qualified U.S. professionals who want the job.

    “Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified and interested U.S. worker. And you know, in a sense that may sound funny, but it’s what we are trying to do here. We are complying with the law, fully, but our objective is to get this person a greencard.” —Lawrence Lebowitz

    Norm Matloff, a Computer Science professor with the University of California at Davis, spoke with the Christian Science Monitor, stating that there is nothing new in the video and that he had received a document listing numerous methods to deny employment to U.S. professionals in favor of foreign workers.
    The Programmers Guild was able to make a short Fair Use video segment prior to the removal of the entire series from the originally posted YouTube channel. Lou Dobbs reported on the issue and Senator Chuck Grassley and Representative Lamar S. Smith approached the Department of Labor seeking an investigation.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    There may not be lawsuits, but many mothers of college students studying STEM are waking up to the fact that their children will not find jobs due to being natives, and, once again, not being able to check the diversity box on their application. This is why I am curious to see which candidate can tap into this concern; more like fear. H1B is a death knell to graduating students with loads of debt...ergo, immigration will be the defining issue for people once they're alone in that voting booth, without having to worry what their neighbors or best friend think.

    American families who have been conned into paying massive tuition, will be enraged if their son/daughter is ignored due to a foreign tech person taking their job. Elites who control the industries in tech or finance, will suddenly realize that people will not go along with their (it's all about shareholders) mantra once millions of parents in the USA realize they have been duped. This is the real reason that any politician who goes against the main stream, may grab all the votes. In the end, it comes down to the nuclear family for all parents. In the end, people are tribal.
  214. @Priss Factor
    I keep hearing about unemployment in Europe but need for more workers.

    What be going on?

    I think it has something to do with the Japper concept of the three D's : dirty, dangerous, and demeaning waruku.

    Native population is over-educated and look down on 3D jobs. So, if possible, they go to other nations to find work if they can't find it in their own country. Instead of settling for 3D work, they seek fancy work elsewhere. So, who has to fill the 3D work? Foreigners from poorer nations who are desperate for any job.
    This leads to brain drain of native population and inflow of low IQ foreigners.

    This is what happens when labor is depreciated. We need a Museum of Labor that emphasizes how all the great things were made by people who worked at jobs that were 'dirty, demeaning, and dangerous'. Look at the highways. Who built them? People with shovels and picks.

    When a people feel they are too good for manual labor in their own nation, they are finished.

    And womenfolk need to listen to this song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrZnnvEyTUs

    Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
    Stay, lady, stay, stay with your man awhile
    Until the break of day, let me see you make him smile
    His clothes are dirty but his hands are clean
    And you’re the best thing that he’s ever seen

    “This is what happens when labor is depreciated. We need a Museum of Labor that emphasizes how all the great things were made by people who worked at jobs that were ‘dirty, demeaning, and dangerous’. Look at the highways. Who built them? People with shovels and picks. ” – or, we could offer high wages to people who will do crap jobs instead of replacing them with low wage foreigners.

  215. @ben tillman

    Your jobs have been given over to a foreign workforce. In the meantime you will be training your replacements until your jobs are 100 percent transferred over to them and if you don’t cooperate you will not receive any severance pay.
     
    Why are there never lawsuits over this stuff? It seems like clear-cut illegal discrimination based on national origin and, by disparate impact, race.

    there was a case in Texas, and the court rules that Americans are not considered a protected class on some basis or another.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    there was a case in Texas, and the court rules that Americans are not considered a protected class on some basis or another.
     
    Wow. Do you have a cite? Or at least the names of the parties?
  216. to their hosts that they are not a burden – in the way that successive immigrant waves have done all over the world (including Jews like my family in London’s East End).

    And to prove it Peston promotes the ethnic cleansing of the people who gave his family refuge.

  217. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The only way to increase prosperity is to increase productivity so you *want* a tight labor market to encourage technological innovation.

     

    Not if you're in it for the short-term buck.

    Employers are stuck in a tragedy of the commons dynamic where importing more labor is the easiest path but in the long term it is stupid.

     

    Thank you for making my point.

    Your point is that there is truth in the article.

    There is not a shred of truth in the article as the last 30 years overwhelmingly shows

    Employers in the West are as much a victim of hostile economic propaganda from people like Peston as everyone else.

    The *only* thing that can increase prosperity is increased productivity. Mass immigration has been destroying productivity for years hence why the entire western economy is in such a mess.

    Peston’s article is yet another example of propaganda promoting the bankster fallacy.

  218. @iSteveFan

    I think the only salvation for the West in terms of HBD would be some kind of ideology that promoted sexual modesty, strong marriages, and lots of children, sort of like the Duggars but less insane. But there is no such ideology gaining ground. People will stand in line for 72 hours to get an iGadget but they won’t do that to marry or have children.
     
    If you were in charge of the government and really believed that your nation was in danger due to a declining population, what would you do? First, you could easily determine that with modern medicine life spans were increasing, infant mortality was decreasing and there were no famines or wars to explain the drop. So you would readily ascertain it was a decline in birth rates that was to blame.

    With this in mind, what policies would you pursue? Would you try to implement policies to increase the birth rate of your own people, who obviously are acclimated to your nation and culture, or would you immediately seek to demographically alter your country by bringing in mass numbers of alien people with little to zero cultural affinity with your nation?

    Now ask yourself why the government is not only not trying to address this decline in birth rates among the natives, but is doing things to exacerbate it. For example, the government and the culture promote the idea that women have to have a career. As a result millions of women go to university to get questionable diplomas that put them into massive debt that they will have to spend the better part of their career working off. Though women have always worked, generally before or after child bearing, getting into massive debt early on forces them to continue to work through the best part of their child bearing age.

    If a diminishing population were the real problem, the government would determine that something, such as the culture, the tax burden or the overall quality of life in the nation was a detriment to couples having more children and would actively try to address it. But instead they immediately resort to the mass migration of alien peoples which only seems to exacerbate the overall quality of life issues that were causing declining birth rates to begin with.

    Don't fall for the "economic" arguments for MASS immigration. Just like the old argument that we needed immigrants to pay taxes turned out to be false given that we are importing net tax consumers, this issue that our birth rates are declining is just a shield they have grabbed to hide their real intentions. And to me, after peeling away all their arguments, clearly seems to be the demographic change of European nations.

    The key to slowing down the demographic change is lowering the birthrates of the immigrants and weakening their cultures. Also focus on the children of immigrants and try to weaken family ties.

    This levels the playing field. Just use similar methods that have been used on gullible whites for decades. Maybe add some more.

  219. @North Carolina Resident
    @ben tillman

    Why are there never lawsuits over this stuff (Disney replacing American tech workers with imported H1B serfs)? They seem to be rare. My guess - Layoffs are orchestrated by employment lawyers. In exchange for a severance, workers are required to sign a document agreeing not to sue. Also, white, make IT types seem not to be the litigious type.
    Here's an example. Kevin Flanagan was a computer programmer who worked for The Bank of America in Concord, California, USA.
    Flanagan shot himself to death in the parking lot of Bank of America's Concord Technology Center after he and colleagues were laid off in April 2003. The lay-offs were due to the company outsourcing many computer-related jobs to less expensive workers.


    See tech insurgent (dot) com. The famous blogger "Tunnel Rat" documents IT worker displacement and lawsuits.
    A few years ago, an Indian outsourcing firm sued him over his blog posts. His original blog site got taken down by court order.


    Also, go to Youtube and search Cohen and Grigsby. Watch the 4 minute 51 second video from that law firm's promotional video.


    I copied this from Wikipedia's Cohen and Grigsby entry.

    In August 2007, Cohen & Grigsby won national press exposure and the Ethics Dunces Award from ProEthics Ltd.

    In a video of a marketing seminar, featured speaker and Cohen & Grigsby Marketing direcotor, Lawrence Lebowitz explains methods employers can use to defeat a provision in employment based immigration law, which requires that the position be advertised to ensure that there are no willing and qualified U.S. professionals who want the job.

    "Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified and interested U.S. worker. And you know, in a sense that may sound funny, but it's what we are trying to do here. We are complying with the law, fully, but our objective is to get this person a greencard." —Lawrence Lebowitz

    Norm Matloff, a Computer Science professor with the University of California at Davis, spoke with the Christian Science Monitor, stating that there is nothing new in the video and that he had received a document listing numerous methods to deny employment to U.S. professionals in favor of foreign workers.
    The Programmers Guild was able to make a short Fair Use video segment prior to the removal of the entire series from the originally posted YouTube channel. Lou Dobbs reported on the issue and Senator Chuck Grassley and Representative Lamar S. Smith approached the Department of Labor seeking an investigation.

    There may not be lawsuits, but many mothers of college students studying STEM are waking up to the fact that their children will not find jobs due to being natives, and, once again, not being able to check the diversity box on their application. This is why I am curious to see which candidate can tap into this concern; more like fear. H1B is a death knell to graduating students with loads of debt…ergo, immigration will be the defining issue for people once they’re alone in that voting booth, without having to worry what their neighbors or best friend think.

    American families who have been conned into paying massive tuition, will be enraged if their son/daughter is ignored due to a foreign tech person taking their job. Elites who control the industries in tech or finance, will suddenly realize that people will not go along with their (it’s all about shareholders) mantra once millions of parents in the USA realize they have been duped. This is the real reason that any politician who goes against the main stream, may grab all the votes. In the end, it comes down to the nuclear family for all parents. In the end, people are tribal.

  220. @Nico

    I just don’t see that there’s a cabal out there trying to Islamize Europe, just as I don’t think there’s a cabal trying to turn the US into North Mexico.
     
    If there's not a cabal, someone is doing a damned good job of making it look like there is. A number of Islamic State cadres were calling for Muslims to invade Europe's shores and from the looks of it they were being obeyed. Within our ranks, at least one Jewish commentator remarked of post-1965 immigration, "The more diverse America is, the safer Jews are!" (He was quite wrong, of course, but it is perception and intent, not reality and result, we are concerned about here.)

    I try to resist thinking in terms of conspiracies. I think it usually muddies the water unnecessarily.

    Note that when people support “the narative” or follow their ethnic interests this is not the same as a conspiracy.

    On the other hand Ye Gods when a previously apparently hard-headed woman like Merkel acts as if wanting to bring down the temple of European civilisation on her own people what, as Hillary would say, difference does it make?

    I am a great believer in the cock up theory of history but people like Merkel are walking open-eyed towards disaster. When does a conspiracy merely become short hand for the inexplicable?

  221. @Anonymous
    (((Robert Peston)))

    This is my first sighting of echoes on isteve 🙂

  222. @Expletive Deleted
    So after near enough half a century of Malthusian jeremiads on overpopulation, because The Plaaaneeeetttttt! or whatever, the shiftstick is crunched into reverse? Trouble is, only the perceptive, intelligent, law-abiding Europeans and Chinese had been listening to the deafening wall of propaganda noise, and limited their progeny. Sucks to be them.

    Plummeting birth rates affect everyone, actually, even blacks outside of sub-saharan Africa.

  223. @Reg Cæsar

    Everyone in the EU is afraid of being called a Nazi…
     
    A notable exception being the Danes. Their country was occupied by the Krauts, so they take this as the sleazy insult it is meant to be, and resist. Why the Dutch and Belgians don't do the same, I don't know. Do they even bother to use this ruse on the Geerts and the Pims?

    Finns, one would think, would be highly vulnerable to being called "Nazis", as their country was allied with Germany, if only by default. But it doesn't seem to work on them, either.

    I know: only a dork like me who cares about soccer would send a post this late buried under so much intense new news: FIFA is just desperate to get the English Premier League to change its entire, decades-long, existing schedule (August-May) to accommodate the Qatar WCup. Players and team owners don’t want to change their life’s schedule (and behemoth, lucrative business model) to accommodate this particular tournament held in the wrong location. So far, the discussions are going nowhere because the season is on. There is just too much money in the P L.

    Most WCups (and Olympics) are money losers for the host countries. US WCup (’94) in past as well as ’84 Olympics, broke even/ made money because they used the existing stadiums in LA area (i.e. Rose Bowl/Pasadena) to host (also excellent CA sunny weather) and, no crazy-expensive new arenas were built – USA has always been sport crazy, and, duh, the football stadiums (NFL or NCAA) are really nice in almost every state.

    So, PL team owners don’t want to bother with changing their lives or the players’ lives to accommodate a country (Qatar was a bad, bad, bad, corrupt choice) that should never have been chosen because of the summer heat. FIFA can not put pressure on PL because members (I mean everyone; including the players) are so rich that they can just ignore the whole thing. They’re certainly not going to give-in this early, or so soon after Brazil.

    PL is the ultimate league everyone wants to play for; attend the games, etc. PL is the most successful and lucrative league in history. The PL does not want the inconvenience to change their schedule to accommodate FIFA which has lost the respect of the soccer community.

    Soccer players are making more money in PL without even bothering with the WCup. And, because the WCup is every 4 years, many veteran players don’t want to lose younger teammates to a WCup interruption. And, of course, the owners/managers/coaches don’t like that either.

    The best players in the world are very particular about their “body/agility/energy schedule.” Let’s face it, they have an expiration date on their heads, and messing with time-honored schedules and rituals of these athletes is a problem for FIFA. In the end, everyone is probably going to have to be paid A LOT! if they decide to come to Qatar in January.

    June/July was marvelous in Rio…during the SA winter. How FIFA didn’t think about the summer heat of Qatar just goes to show you they don’t give a damn about the players/families/fans/slave labor that built those stadiums (just like they don’t give a damn about the EU migrants/Syrian refugees). And, they got busted this year! – finally!

    And really? Who would want to go to Qatar? As a woman, would I be allowed to drink beer on a deck with shorts on, could I walk home alone to my hotel? No party-city on the gorgeous beaches like in Rio. I can’t imagine festivals with drunken youth dancing and partying wearing bikinis and shorts. Nope, never gonna happen. I’m glad my son came home alive from Rio!

    • Replies: @snorlax
    I think the Brits had better give in on this one, or they'll be seeing a wave of terrorist attacks in their country.

    For the same reason, not a good idea to actually go through with boycotting the World Cup. We're talking about the world's leading and most unscrupulous sponsor of terrorism, and they're dropping a cool quarter-trill on their little party. Anyone who ruins it for them is going to have hell to pay.

    (The number one reason, among many, that they never should've received it in the first place).
  224. @AnAnon
    there was a case in Texas, and the court rules that Americans are not considered a protected class on some basis or another.

    there was a case in Texas, and the court rules that Americans are not considered a protected class on some basis or another.

    Wow. Do you have a cite? Or at least the names of the parties?

  225. @Jimi
    Germany has a skilled worker shortage. There are already a surplus of under-employed Arab and Turk immigrants in Germany.

    Same as in Britain. As soon as the anchor-baby generation is of working age, they mysteriously become “Lazy”, to a much greater degree than their indigenous prole peers. Even the Eastern Europeans are being infected with disgusting British “Laziness”, and starting to claim Benefits/Credits or returning home with their stash.
    The only recourse is twice as many illiterate peasant recruits to the Information Age and the Skills-Based Economy. Every year.

  226. @Sean
    "Which is perhaps one of the unspoken reasons why Germany is being much more welcoming to asylum seekers from Syria and elsewhere right now."
    Germans don't make this argument. it is ridiculous to say the Germans are doing this because they have used something like Franklyn's decision calculus to calculate it is to their advantage. Is the BBC expert saying the Germans can vaguely understand this advanced demographic concept of having a smaller working population in the future, but the Japanese are too stupid?

    http://tommytoy.typepad.com/tommy-toy-pbt-consultin/2011/03/demographic-time-bombs-us-is-better-off-than-you-think.html

    https://www.unz.com/efingleton/japan-teflon-nation/
    "But even by East Asian standards, Japan is remarkably stone-hearted. It accepted a mere six asylum seekers in 2013 and eleven in 2014."

    ““But even by East Asian standards, Japan is remarkably stone-hearted. It accepted a mere six asylum seekers in 2013 and eleven in 2014.”

    I would not call that being stone hearted. I would call that being street smart and alpha male on the part of the Japanese people.

    The Japanese people are not as beta male as American pop culture portrays them to be.

  227. @Wilkey
    "Well if you look at the average English working class white then maybe tribesmen from the Hindu kush will be an improvement to the gene pool."

    They aren't. Only about 40% of Afghan and Bangladeshi immigrant adults living in Britain are employed - and that includes part-time work. Meanwhile New Zealand immigrants, who are mostly of Anglo-Celtic stock, have an 80% employment rate.

    Great Britain may have a large, sad white underclass, but it did not get to be the 19th richest country in the world (per capita income) because of a large, dumb, lazy population. Same can be said for its offshoots. The Anglosphere countries - Canada (#15), USA (#10), Australia (#5) and New Zealand (#21), Ireland (#11) - all do very, very well by any economic measure. Only Germanic/Scandinavian countries do consistently better.

    The underclasses of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India are proportionally far larger, far dumber, and far more pathetic than anything Great Britain can muster.

    “The underclasses of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India are proportionally far larger, far dumber, and far more pathetic than anything Great Britain can muster.”

    Most of the underclass in these countries still do not even have indoor plumbing, even though it is the 21st Century for crying out loud.

    When Westerners start riding self driving cars, the Indian, Afghani, and Pakistani underclass still won’t have a toilet to piss and crap on. They are still in the stone age.

  228. @Lagertha
    I know: only a dork like me who cares about soccer would send a post this late buried under so much intense new news: FIFA is just desperate to get the English Premier League to change its entire, decades-long, existing schedule (August-May) to accommodate the Qatar WCup. Players and team owners don't want to change their life's schedule (and behemoth, lucrative business model) to accommodate this particular tournament held in the wrong location. So far, the discussions are going nowhere because the season is on. There is just too much money in the P L.

    Most WCups (and Olympics) are money losers for the host countries. US WCup ('94) in past as well as '84 Olympics, broke even/ made money because they used the existing stadiums in LA area (i.e. Rose Bowl/Pasadena) to host (also excellent CA sunny weather) and, no crazy-expensive new arenas were built - USA has always been sport crazy, and, duh, the football stadiums (NFL or NCAA) are really nice in almost every state.

    So, PL team owners don't want to bother with changing their lives or the players' lives to accommodate a country (Qatar was a bad, bad, bad, corrupt choice) that should never have been chosen because of the summer heat. FIFA can not put pressure on PL because members (I mean everyone; including the players) are so rich that they can just ignore the whole thing. They're certainly not going to give-in this early, or so soon after Brazil.

    PL is the ultimate league everyone wants to play for; attend the games, etc. PL is the most successful and lucrative league in history. The PL does not want the inconvenience to change their schedule to accommodate FIFA which has lost the respect of the soccer community.

    Soccer players are making more money in PL without even bothering with the WCup. And, because the WCup is every 4 years, many veteran players don't want to lose younger teammates to a WCup interruption. And, of course, the owners/managers/coaches don't like that either.

    The best players in the world are very particular about their "body/agility/energy schedule." Let's face it, they have an expiration date on their heads, and messing with time-honored schedules and rituals of these athletes is a problem for FIFA. In the end, everyone is probably going to have to be paid A LOT! if they decide to come to Qatar in January.

    June/July was marvelous in Rio...during the SA winter. How FIFA didn't think about the summer heat of Qatar just goes to show you they don't give a damn about the players/families/fans/slave labor that built those stadiums (just like they don't give a damn about the EU migrants/Syrian refugees). And, they got busted this year! - finally!

    And really? Who would want to go to Qatar? As a woman, would I be allowed to drink beer on a deck with shorts on, could I walk home alone to my hotel? No party-city on the gorgeous beaches like in Rio. I can't imagine festivals with drunken youth dancing and partying wearing bikinis and shorts. Nope, never gonna happen. I'm glad my son came home alive from Rio!

    I think the Brits had better give in on this one, or they’ll be seeing a wave of terrorist attacks in their country.

    For the same reason, not a good idea to actually go through with boycotting the World Cup. We’re talking about the world’s leading and most unscrupulous sponsor of terrorism, and they’re dropping a cool quarter-trill on their little party. Anyone who ruins it for them is going to have hell to pay.

    (The number one reason, among many, that they never should’ve received it in the first place).

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    I was just trying to describe (to Reg Caesar, actually - don't know why you are butting in) the logistics and production of televising a WC/O; not politics for God's sake. And, the nature of how wealthy teams/leagues/orgs are now - "too big to fail," is apt here, too.

    And, I was trying to expound on the 'giant corporation' which is now: PL, O Committee, FIFA, NFL, NBA...I'm just a silly creative person who works on the design schemes/sets for theater, art, sport entertainment, or events for fashion; many events, many that have nothing to do with sport. Ask me about the wings for VS runways...as to where that idea came from.

    Terror attacks that you mentioned, will come about to punish western (Brits, you said) soccer fans beCAUSE...? - a bit cray-cray to suggest that people who don't have the money to travel to Qatar will be punished. I totally don't get you.

    All I was saying to Reg Caesar is: ordinary ("everyday") people in Europe (the biggest spenders for WC, btw) will NOT HAVE THE MONEY in their personal budget to go - simple as that. And, Qatar is not Godzilla...they are not at the top of the human hierarchy for survival. Bacteria still rule...and, maybe the sun and asteroids,PCBs, industrial pollutants...I just like to have a convenient beer after a soccer game, that's all. Plus, it was a more or less small message to RC...thought it was worthless since it was so many of Steve's posts ago.

  229. @snorlax
    I think the Brits had better give in on this one, or they'll be seeing a wave of terrorist attacks in their country.

    For the same reason, not a good idea to actually go through with boycotting the World Cup. We're talking about the world's leading and most unscrupulous sponsor of terrorism, and they're dropping a cool quarter-trill on their little party. Anyone who ruins it for them is going to have hell to pay.

    (The number one reason, among many, that they never should've received it in the first place).

    I was just trying to describe (to Reg Caesar, actually – don’t know why you are butting in) the logistics and production of televising a WC/O; not politics for God’s sake. And, the nature of how wealthy teams/leagues/orgs are now – “too big to fail,” is apt here, too.

    And, I was trying to expound on the ‘giant corporation’ which is now: PL, O Committee, FIFA, NFL, NBA…I’m just a silly creative person who works on the design schemes/sets for theater, art, sport entertainment, or events for fashion; many events, many that have nothing to do with sport. Ask me about the wings for VS runways…as to where that idea came from.

    Terror attacks that you mentioned, will come about to punish western (Brits, you said) soccer fans beCAUSE…? – a bit cray-cray to suggest that people who don’t have the money to travel to Qatar will be punished. I totally don’t get you.

    All I was saying to Reg Caesar is: ordinary (“everyday”) people in Europe (the biggest spenders for WC, btw) will NOT HAVE THE MONEY in their personal budget to go – simple as that. And, Qatar is not Godzilla…they are not at the top of the human hierarchy for survival. Bacteria still rule…and, maybe the sun and asteroids,PCBs, industrial pollutants…I just like to have a convenient beer after a soccer game, that’s all. Plus, it was a more or less small message to RC…thought it was worthless since it was so many of Steve’s posts ago.

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