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The position of punter is the dullest in American football. His job is to kick the ball back to the other team when his team has failed to advance the ball ten yards in three plays. Punters are generally specialists who aren’t quite good enough to play other positions.
There is only one black punter of the 32 in the NFL (black high schools generally have poor kicking games), but now there are three Australian punters.
A couple of years ago, I saw Utah beat UCLA at the Rose Bowl largely on the craftiness of Utah’s Australian punter Tom Hackett pinning UCLA back near the goal time. That game opened my eyes to the possibilities of smarter punting in American football.
Punting is central to Aussie Rules football. The best athletes in Australia work on punting, and they have more sophisticated and flexible tactics than repetitious American punters.
This year, Utah has another Aussie Rules punter, Mitch Wishnowsky from Perth, who attended the same Prokick Academy in Australia to learn to punt an American football.
Saturday’s game against #4 Washington turned more on the punting game than just about any in recent football. From ESPN:
No. 4 Washington holds on for 31-24 win over No. 17 Utah
playSALT LAKE CITY — Mitch Wishnowsky had pushed No. 4 Washington in a back-and-forth showdown with No. 17 Utah. The Utah punter had the Huskies on their heels and on the wrong side of the field so much that Washington coach Chris Petersen laughed when he pinned his team on the 7 in the third quarter.
But then Wishnowsky outkicked his coverage, somewhat, late in the fourth quarter and gave Washington an opening.
No. 17 Utah took No. 4 Washington to the brink but the Huskies kept their unbeaten record intact thanks to a late Dante Pettis punt-return touchdown.
“Honestly, I thought I was going to get tackled to begin with,” Pettis said. “I somehow slipped out of that. I was a little afraid because I lost about five yards to begin with. Once I got around that, my blockers did a good job setting up open space and that was it.
“That guy was a good punter. The best I’ve seen. The ball would just hang in the air forever and it was hard to judge where the ball was really going, but his leg paid off for us in the end.”
After Utah tied it at 24 with 9:07 left, Washington (8-0, 5-0 Pac-12) pinned the Utes on their own 1 on quarterback Jake Browning’s pooch punt.
Washington has a 4th and 8 from Utah’s 41 yard line. They lined up as if they were going for it but instead their quarterback punted the ball to Utah’s 1.
The Utes (7-2, 4-2) went three-and-out and punted
Wishnowsky, helped by the Australian style of running before punting, booted the ball about 65 yards in the air (granted, at 4000 feet elevation in Salt Lake City):
to Pettis, who ran parallel toward the far sideline, broke a tackle and outran everyone else. It was Pettis’ second punt return touchdown of the year and the first Utah has allowed since 2009. …
“It was awesome for Dante to get that return at the end because that’s a heck of a punter,” Petersen said. “He’s a weapon. We could get nothing. He just kept driving us back, driving us back. We finally got our chance and Dante made a couple guys miss and hats off to him.
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needs more Wayne Carey
Huskies making some noise for the first time in a long time. They were powerhouses in the pac-10 for many years under the guidance of Don James. Hugh McElhenny might see one last championship run.
A lot of NFL teams seem to give too little attention to special teams play, including punting. The Patriots’ Bill Belichick has wisely devoted much attention to that phase of the game. Special teams, including punting, is crucial for establishing field position that can place the other team at repeated disadvantages. It’s why punter Ryan Allen was named AFC Player of The Week last month.
Also of note was the fantastic play last week from the league’s only black punter. He came onto the field when Oakland had a 4th and 24. The ball was snapped and hit the dirt. By the time the punter got the ball, it was clear that he would be blocked or tackled, so he ran it for 27 yards.
I’m all for punting and kick-offs bringing back the ‘foot’ in football. Which brings up another point about football: its common origins with rugby and soccer that gave us its name. Seems like something Steve would be interested in.
O/T but did you see that the young Cuban pitcher from the Marlins had coke and booze in his system? Cocaine only stays in the system for 72 hours I’ve been told. For drug testing that is.
Special teams player of the week.
In England, ‘punter’ originally meant a gambler on horse races. Probably late Victorian to early 20th century slang. Since Aussies are big on early 20th century British slang, I’m surprised that that particular usage never transferred.
Latterly the term was extended to mean ‘customer’ or generally, the ‘man on the street’ – as heard on such TV dramas as The Sweeney and Minder.
However, the usage that has more or less taken over in contemporary Britain is ‘prostitute’s client’.
The ‘tart review’ site Punternet is perhaps Britain’s oldest established still extant mass internet site.
For example:
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/melbourne-cup-2016-internationals-talking-tough-as-punters-remain-baffled-20161030-gsdx9b.html
However, punt is a word that has multiple different meanings. For example, students at Cambridge university taking a small boat (a punt) out on the River Cam and propelling it with a pole are going for a punt.
A punt is also a pole driven ferry across a river.
And it is a kick in Rugby and Australian Rules football (both of which predate the codification of American football) where the ball is kicked before it reaches the ground and rebounds. Reaching the ground and rebounding slightly just before the impact of the boot produces a drop kick.
Surely the NFL has copied baseball with moneyball? This seems like a proven, fertile, easy and cheap way to gain an edge.
The headline made me laugh because I opened it expecting to read about sports betting in the NFL — “to punt”, here in the antipodes, meaning to place a bet.
Divided by a common language, indeed. 🙂
Latterly the term was extended to mean 'customer' or generally, the 'man on the street' - as heard on such TV dramas as The Sweeney and Minder.
However, the usage that has more or less taken over in contemporary Britain is 'prostitute's client'.
The 'tart review' site Punternet is perhaps Britain's oldest established still extant mass internet site.Replies: @Lyov Myshkin, @With the thoughts you'd be thinkin, @Larry, @Fredrik, @Rob McX, @Njal
@anonymous
It actually did and is in common usage to this day.
I work with lots of Aussies so I’ve gained an appreciation for Aussie rules football. Among all the sports descended from soccer only American football and Aussie rules allow the ball to be moved forward by hand (instead of only kicking). That added dimension makes a big difference.
What about rugby?
I had been under the impression that rugby and soccer separated from a common original sport, with rugby remaining closer to the original, and then the various forms of pigskin football played in the US, Canada, and Australia descended from rugby.Replies: @Galactic Overlord
Radio silence from sports msm. Dan Lebatard cried so the kid is a hero. Fernandez badgered his buddies Rivero and Macias to join him that evening for their death cruise. Blackout drunk but coked up enough to stay conscious is no way to pilot a boat.
Latterly the term was extended to mean 'customer' or generally, the 'man on the street' - as heard on such TV dramas as The Sweeney and Minder.
However, the usage that has more or less taken over in contemporary Britain is 'prostitute's client'.
The 'tart review' site Punternet is perhaps Britain's oldest established still extant mass internet site.Replies: @Lyov Myshkin, @With the thoughts you'd be thinkin, @Larry, @Fredrik, @Rob McX, @Njal
It remains in use, look up anything related to the upcoming Melbourne Cup and you’ll see “punting” and “punter” are still in use.
For example:
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/melbourne-cup-2016-internationals-talking-tough-as-punters-remain-baffled-20161030-gsdx9b.html
In Australia, a punter is also a gambler, a ‘customer’ and a ‘man on the street’.
Additionally, there’s colourful rhyming slang associated with the word punt.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drop+kick+%28Australian+slang%29&defid=1109427
Kicking the ball is a common tactic in Rugby Union, so I am going to admit that I am a bit bothered why Sailer mentions Aussie rules but completely ignores Rugby which is by far a much more widespread sport.
Last year, in his now terminated (or perhaps “on hiatus”) Tuesday Morning Quarterback column, Gregg Easterbrook noted how useful Australian punters are and predicted NFL teams would get more of them (and that high schools and colleges might start training their own).
Latterly the term was extended to mean 'customer' or generally, the 'man on the street' - as heard on such TV dramas as The Sweeney and Minder.
However, the usage that has more or less taken over in contemporary Britain is 'prostitute's client'.
The 'tart review' site Punternet is perhaps Britain's oldest established still extant mass internet site.Replies: @Lyov Myshkin, @With the thoughts you'd be thinkin, @Larry, @Fredrik, @Rob McX, @Njal
“Punter” used in that sense did transfer over to Australian English, which is why recent Australian Cricket Captain Ricky Ponting’s nickname was “Punter” – because he was fond of a punt on the dishlickers (greyhound racing for you ‘Murricans).
However, punt is a word that has multiple different meanings. For example, students at Cambridge university taking a small boat (a punt) out on the River Cam and propelling it with a pole are going for a punt.
A punt is also a pole driven ferry across a river.
And it is a kick in Rugby and Australian Rules football (both of which predate the codification of American football) where the ball is kicked before it reaches the ground and rebounds. Reaching the ground and rebounding slightly just before the impact of the boot produces a drop kick.
We use the word ‘punter’ in that sense.
I’ve never heard of a footy player being called a ‘punter’. A ‘punt’ in football is just a powerful kick, probably named for the sound the ball makes when you belt it – eg ‘… and he punts it down to the forward pocket …’ – and since everyone kicks the ball – that’s the game – there isn’t anyone who is referred to as a ‘punter’ on the field.
I credit my oldest son playing rugby in high school with killing my interest in the NFL. Once you get a handle on the rules rugby is much more fun to watch.
University of Michigan lost to MSU is a very famous play last year because they hired a rugby punter. Huge risk to be managed with that type of portover
Latterly the term was extended to mean 'customer' or generally, the 'man on the street' - as heard on such TV dramas as The Sweeney and Minder.
However, the usage that has more or less taken over in contemporary Britain is 'prostitute's client'.
The 'tart review' site Punternet is perhaps Britain's oldest established still extant mass internet site.Replies: @Lyov Myshkin, @With the thoughts you'd be thinkin, @Larry, @Fredrik, @Rob McX, @Njal
And then there’s the rugby position called ‘hooker’.
Seems like the Aussie invasion is progressing East rapidly. It’s my perception that, like Samoans, they first began appearing in larger numbers in West Coast schools (Pac12, etc.) but they’re quickly turning into a must-have not-so-secret weapon (ex. this year, Houston, who was a dark horse national title contender with an up-and-coming young HC, started a 27 year old named Dane Roy to great fanfare). I think we’ll know they’ve made it when Saban starts one for the Tide (it’s coming no doubt, he’s already got a Polish orphan at kicker – though of course the Poles have a decent track record of producing powerful if not troubled kickers).
Americans are not giving up though. Last night I watched as another ridiculously talented walk-on for UT helped them hang in against the Gamecocks – http://sports.usatoday.com/2016/08/10/how-vols-punter-went-from-walkon-to-one-of-secs-best/
Reminds me of the line from a country pop song when the subjects announce a crazy spree:
“…got one life to live; let’s get it over with”
Another advantage of the Aussie style punt for American football is the potential it gives for the punter to take off an run for a first down. The aussie style motion starts with a bit of a sweep and different way of holding the ball. If the punter sees a crack, he can MUCH more easily run for the marker.
See this for an example: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17920390
Latterly the term was extended to mean 'customer' or generally, the 'man on the street' - as heard on such TV dramas as The Sweeney and Minder.
However, the usage that has more or less taken over in contemporary Britain is 'prostitute's client'.
The 'tart review' site Punternet is perhaps Britain's oldest established still extant mass internet site.Replies: @Lyov Myshkin, @With the thoughts you'd be thinkin, @Larry, @Fredrik, @Rob McX, @Njal
I heard of a vicar who used the term for members of his flock. Not alone that, but he converted it to rhyming slang – he referred to his congregation as “the Hillman Hunters”.
The problem with breaking with tradition and making more Moneyball-like decisions to improve the chances of your team winning by punting in a different way is that punting is actually just a mistake almost all the time. Having a “don’t punt except inside your own 25” policy leads to a lot more wins than “improve my punting game by hiring more athletic punting specialists”.
Thanks for writing about this Steve, but, pedant as I am, I have to note that Australians would never say “punting” is “central” to Australian rules football. KICKING is central—but it nearly always takes place in open play and is not directed at field position at such. Rugby and rugby league, on the other hand, involve something more like punting—kicking for territory.
Interestingly, the art of kicking has declined in Australia since the 1990s, even as Australians have started to infiltrate college football and the NFL. Recruiters now look for height and (distance) running ability in players more than anything else, and the game has changed to make kicking less important (that being said, the best teams still have the best kicks). Once upon a time, to play Australian football professionally, one had to be able to kick on both feet proficiently and be able to execute a variety of kicks (“drop punt,” “torpedo,” “drop kick” etc.). Not any more.
Latterly the term was extended to mean 'customer' or generally, the 'man on the street' - as heard on such TV dramas as The Sweeney and Minder.
However, the usage that has more or less taken over in contemporary Britain is 'prostitute's client'.
The 'tart review' site Punternet is perhaps Britain's oldest established still extant mass internet site.Replies: @Lyov Myshkin, @With the thoughts you'd be thinkin, @Larry, @Fredrik, @Rob McX, @Njal
Australians do talk about “punters” in the sense of “gamblers.” In fact, it’s a common nickname for individuals with a fondness for “the punt.”
Funny this should come up, I’ve been thinking recently about how much I hate Chris Kluwe. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don’t, but he is that kind of person whose manner is uniformly annoying.
And I found this:
http://deadspin.com/5823549/dear-chris-kluwe-when-we-want-the-punters-opinion-well-ask-for-it-we-wont
“It’s not surprising that Kluwe could be so out of touch. Punters live in a small, insulated bubble that no one else cares to enter. They are not included in the inside jokes and they’re not invited to parties. Their lockers are tucked in a dark corner of the locker room, where they sit and read crime novels while the rest of the team watches film and learns a playbook that will be dead in a week, replaced by a new one.”
I thought Kluwe happened to be right on the issue, but this smack down was a gem.
Back in the ’70s, University of Oklahoma football teams under Barry Switzer would employ the halfback quick kick on third down and long at least a few times per season. With a nice low trajectory, the ball would roll a long, long distance and it was easy to get someone downfield to dissuade the receiving team from falling on it. 60+yards was not unusual, and I recall a 75-yarder in one major game, pinning the opponent very deep in their own territory late in the game.
I think they should eliminate kicking altogether in football, unless it’s to drop kick a field goal. Onside kicks are okay, too. Except for the occasional big return, kicking in football is SO BORING.
And I found this:
http://deadspin.com/5823549/dear-chris-kluwe-when-we-want-the-punters-opinion-well-ask-for-it-we-wont
"It's not surprising that Kluwe could be so out of touch. Punters live in a small, insulated bubble that no one else cares to enter. They are not included in the inside jokes and they're not invited to parties. Their lockers are tucked in a dark corner of the locker room, where they sit and read crime novels while the rest of the team watches film and learns a playbook that will be dead in a week, replaced by a new one."
I thought Kluwe happened to be right on the issue, but this smack down was a gem.Replies: @guest
You mean the issue of him being fired over gay marriage? Please. Look at how the NFL wears pink for a month. Look at how they’ve hurt their bottom line coddling angry blacks (or part-blacks). That cartel is “fully converged,” as they say. No way they fire some nobody because he toes the lib line on some issue.
Kluwe and the guy who wrote the article, Nate Jackson (a former journeyman wide receiver) were arguing about a collective bargaining issue. It had nothing to do with gay rights. I happen to think Kluwe was right about that particular issue. The other guy wrote the linked article, which threw shade on Kluwe's status as a former punter, and didn't engage with Kluwe's argument.
I thought Steve would find funny because it tells the truth about how punters are thought of in NFL locker rooms, that's all. But Jackson's way of arguing was off-line.
Is that simple enough?
The knives are bigger in Aussie, too.
“Among all the sports descended from soccer only American football and Aussie rules allow the ball to be moved forward by hand (instead of only kicking). ”
What about rugby?
I had been under the impression that rugby and soccer separated from a common original sport, with rugby remaining closer to the original, and then the various forms of pigskin football played in the US, Canada, and Australia descended from rugby.
Gaelic football, however, does allow forward hand-passing, in the same manner as Australian rules. (There's much historic controversy as to whether Gaelic football and Aussie rules have shared origins.)
So kicking is yet another job that native-born Americans can’t do?
English-speaking white immigrants who take jobs away from Americans are still immigrants who take jobs away from Americans. But they have a built-in advantage – they are “our kind,” so when native-born American boys lose football scholarships to foreigners, it’s okay.
I say, let the Indians stay in India, the Mexicans stay in Mexico, and the Australians stay in Australia. We don’t need anyone else taking away our jobs.
The nos of each nationality in the other country are pretty equal but generally more in thr USs favour but most of the Aussies are temporary residents -like these footballers
Plenty of Americans have settled in Australia
CNN (or HLN) ran an interview with a high-school coach who prohibits punting altogether. Says going for it is always the right thing to do.
Punting is one thing, but they can leave the gun control at home.
Aussies like AFL. Kiwis are into rugby.
I disagree. I like to just take the extra point.
What a waste of a life. Hundreds of millions of people would kill to be him.
Uh, we’re talking about fourth down here. No points, extra or otherwise.
Sorry, misread that. I still don’t like to go for it on 4th down. Too risky.
I just looked and I was surprised to find that Tom Hackett has not been signed by an NFL team.
JohnnyWalker123-
What risk? That the other team will get the ball? That’s what punting does at best. The advantage of running an extra down in the regular offense is huge. The advantage of running all 4 downs with the knowledge that you’re playing a 4 down game is even bigger.
Except for being inside your own 25 it’s almost always wrong to punt.
passes thrown roughly where punts end up on fourth down the teams would treat it like terrible misfortune.
Coaches are afraid to go for it because punting won't usually get them second-guessed. It's safer, because that's what's expected.
Hackett got beaten out by another Australian rookie punter for Jets (?) job.
Except for being inside your own 25 it's almost always wrong to punt.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @27 year old, @guest
Offenses have improved so much over the decades that the tradition of usually punting on 4th down is somewhat obsolete.
You’re late to the game. Australian punter Brad Wing helped LSU get to the national championship against one of Saban’s best teams back in 2011-2012.
“That same year he landed 20 punts inside the opponent’s 20-yard line. Some have credited Wing with being the crucial element in top-ranked LSU’s 9–6 overtime win at #2 Alabama in the 2011 season. From LSU’s red zone Wing kicked a 73-yard punt, hitting a camera wire, forcing overtime. Wing gained notoriety during a game against the Florida Gators by stretching his arms out during a fake punt play on his way to a 52-yard touchdown.
Going into the BCS National Championship Game against Alabama, opponents had attempted to return Wing’s punts only 17 times for a total of 6 yards. During 2011 and 2012, Wing averaged 44.6 yards per punt, which is the highest in school history for a player with at least 100 punts.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Wing
Except for being inside your own 25 it's almost always wrong to punt.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @27 year old, @guest
Depends how good your defense is relative to your offense
I could be wrong but I think rugby league is much bigger in NSW and Queensland than the AFL. Not that it matters much to this topic as punting is not as important in league as it is in union.
I think I saw that, or something like it. There was a high school team that won a bunch of state championships never punting and always kicking on-side. The coach treated kicking away as equivalent to a turnover, which makes sense.
Except for being inside your own 25 it's almost always wrong to punt.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @27 year old, @guest
People never think of it in terms of what’s easier, gaining a yard or stopping the other team three or four plays in a row. I bet if the other team intercepted o
passes thrown roughly where punts end up on fourth down the teams would treat it like terrible misfortune.
Coaches are afraid to go for it because punting won’t usually get them second-guessed. It’s safer, because that’s what’s expected.
No. You didn’t read the link and you totally missed my point.
Kluwe and the guy who wrote the article, Nate Jackson (a former journeyman wide receiver) were arguing about a collective bargaining issue. It had nothing to do with gay rights. I happen to think Kluwe was right about that particular issue. The other guy wrote the linked article, which threw shade on Kluwe’s status as a former punter, and didn’t engage with Kluwe’s argument.
I thought Steve would find funny because it tells the truth about how punters are thought of in NFL locker rooms, that’s all. But Jackson’s way of arguing was off-line.
Is that simple enough?
Thought experiment about punting:
Play a game where on any play outside the 25 yard line if there’s a 4th and 4 or less the opposing team’s coach decides whether or not the offense punts or goes for it.
What would those decisions look like? I bet their loss aversion would cause them to punt every time. In a two player game if you’re making the same decision for yourself that your opponent would make if he could make your decisions then someone is wrong.
What about rugby?
I had been under the impression that rugby and soccer separated from a common original sport, with rugby remaining closer to the original, and then the various forms of pigskin football played in the US, Canada, and Australia descended from rugby.Replies: @Galactic Overlord
Rugby (whether union or league) doesn’t allow forward passes (by hand).
Gaelic football, however, does allow forward hand-passing, in the same manner as Australian rules. (There’s much historic controversy as to whether Gaelic football and Aussie rules have shared origins.)
I think you’ll find that the US has much the better of the US Australia economic relationship
The nos of each nationality in the other country are pretty equal but generally more in thr USs favour but most of the Aussies are temporary residents -like these footballers
Plenty of Americans have settled in Australia
As Kyle a correctly points out, that should have been “AFC Special Teams Player of the Week”. Very much a case of misslexia on my part!
Speaking of football, historyfanatic.com reports that Mrs Tom Brady has a net worth of $360 million, apparently not including her husband’s, though they didn’t say. What would Tom’s be?
I clicked on the “slideshow” because the bait was Ann Coulter’s, but never got to her. Another site says hers is only $8.5.
The rules have steadily changed in favor of the offense. Gotta generate those espn highlights.
So true! I watched five hours of rugby union at a local event here on Saturday. Great informal atmosphere, and emphasis on sportsmanship, and a wonderful sport.
I believe the late Reggie Roby was the first black punter in the NFL.
Ironically, he wore a watch during games.
Kicking (punting) is pretty damn important in league – given that its pretty much guaranteed to happen every sixth tackle. If you dont have halves with a good kicking game, you’re not going to win many games of rugby league. Place kicking (i.e. kicking field goals) is more important in union though.
And to expand on your point regarding kicking in league, it’s also rewarded by the 40–20 rule.
For those not familiar with the sport, if a player kicks from behind his 40-meter line, and the ball goes out of bounds on the bounce inside the opponent’s 20-meter line, the kicker’s team regains possession—either by a tap kick restart (Australasia) or by a scrum (Super League, i.e. Europe). Normally, if the ball goes out of bounds from a kick, the non-kicking team will receive possession, but this is reversed on a 40–20 kick.
Since we’re on the topic, couldn’t they change the kickoff rules to something more interesting? Last time I watched a number of NFL games, the kicker seemingly always blasted the ball into the end zone and play started on the 20th. Ho hum.