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From The Atlantic:

Do Parents’ Views on Gifted Education Vary by Ethnicity?

A recent study found that families of color at a New York City school were less willing than white families to “game” the system by prepping their kids for admissions tests to gifted-and-talented programs.

Is getting your child into a gifted-and-talented program a mark of good parenting? How you answer may depend largely on your race or ethnicity, according to new research. Allison Roda, an assistant professor of education at Molloy College in Long Island, interviewed more than 50 white, black, and Hispanic parents at an unidentified New York City school to learn about their attitudes towards gifted programs. (Her sample did not include any Asian parents.)

LOL

Meanwhile, in the New York Times:

Asian Test-Prep Centers Offer Parents Exactly What They Want: ‘Results’
By ALICE YIN OCT. 25, 2017

On Main Street in Flushing, Queens’s Chinatown, the GPS Academy building announces itself with a sign printed in both English and Chinese, hanging over a crush of bubble-tea shops and souvenir street vendors. …

GPS Academy is an educational enrichment business that specializes in preparation for standardized tests. Students range from seventh to 12th graders, most of them from immigrant Chinese families. Group test-prep classes like these have become a coming-of-age tradition in Asian immigrant communities, which nurse entire ecosystems of businesses like this one. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, a majority of New York City’s 411 prep centers are rooted in Queens and Brooklyn, with over a quarter of them springing up in the past four years alone, most notably in the boroughs’ Asian enclaves of Flushing and Sunset Park in Brooklyn. On the opposite coast, 861 such tutoring centers exist in California’s Orange, Santa Clara and Los Angeles Counties, all heavy with Asian-American families.

At GPS, as with its competitors, one of the most popular courses focuses on New York City’s Specialized High School Admissions Test, an entrance requirement for eight of the city’s nine specialized high schools. …

It was in a GPS Academy class for the city high-school test, three years ago, that Join Wang first met most of his close friends. That group, now juniors at Stuyvesant and Bronx Science, regrouped again this summer for SAT classes. “It’s kind of become a joke: ‘What are you going to do in the summer?’ ‘Go to prep,’” Wang says. “We all go to prep.”

From Unsilenced Science, the big development in this century in college admissions test scores is Asians (yellow line) pulling away from everybody else:

(Anybody know why there was a sudden drop in test scores in 2017?)

I think it’s more than about time for a national commission on how America’s standardized tests can withstand the challenges of the 21st Century.

Standardized tests like the SAT were basically invented by WASPs, like the shamed Terman Family of Silicon Valley, for test-takers with WASP views on what is sporting and the proper role of amateurism.

Later, ethnic rivals like Stanley Kaplan and his 14-year-old assistant, little Chuckie “Four 800s” Schumer (D-NY), felt that WASP notions of fair play on tests were for losers, and probably, when you stop and think about it, were hatefully anti-Semitic.

Chinese immigrants, in turn, tended to feel that the Kaplans of America were genetic arrivistes at test prep, compared to the Chinese who had been evolving under the Imperial mandarin exam system of Darwinian selection for high test scores for dozens of generations. The Kaplans and Schumers are soft and do not understand what it is to eat bitter rice.

America hasn’t even built thousands of walled-in cells to keep test-takers from cheating the way the Emperor of China did, so what can you expect? Stupid Americans are just asking for it. When you stop and think about it, American testing systems built on assumptions of trust and honesty are downright anti-Sinitic.

Anyway, it’s worth thinking about a national commission, say paid for by the Pentagon (a huge user of standardized tests), to evaluate cheating, gaming, and prepping realities and recommend best practices for tests.

For example, in the past the SAT test used a 2,000 word list of vocabulary words for vocabulary questions. Test preppers would get their hands on the list and memorize the current 2,000 words.

Don’t be naive. Use all 45,000 or whatever words in the English language as the basis for vocabulary questions.

Another possibility is to make use of test prep to actually teach test-takers knowledge rather than just tricks for gaming the test. For example, include a section of questions take from the AP tests on American history, chemistry, English literature and so forth.

 
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  1. pyrrhus says:

    White parents? They must have meant Asian parents, who will do anything, especially cheating, to get their kids in the right schools. College Board has had to call off SAT testing in places like Korea because the test answers had been sold to SAT coaching companies….

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  2. Yan Shen says:

    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Exactly. I love Steve, but every time I begin to think this is a site for realtalk, someone comes up and says all East Asians get ahead by test prep, or cheating.

    And even the ones who admit East Asians have higher iq will follow up with some blather about them being less creative.

    It takes confidence to be creative. Asians in America are raised diffident and they get more diffident because they're tiny and weak and white people steal their girls. Asians in Asia, like the Japanese, are plenty creative.

    Some whites seem to have the erroneous conception that just because white countries are currently dominant, that must mean white people are genetically superior. That's hogwash.

    Israel is much poorer than America and yet ashkenazi Jews are genetically far superior to the average American. Hong Kong is far richer than China but genetically there is little difference between the two. Same for North and south Korea. Or Dubai versus Bahrain.
    , @Roderick Spode
    Why on earth would anyone complain about Asian Americans?
    , @Colleen Pater
    UH not quite, it would be the same if we were gaming your nation - but nice try. You know if I were as smart as asians and jews are supposed to be Id be preparing for when we stop putting up with this and you guys have o you know build viable nations of your own and invent stuff etc
    , @Joe Walker
    You don't do well at reading comprehension, do you?
    , @Lurker
    If only Asians had some countries of their own where they could live away from the hateful depredations of whites. . .
    , @Wally
    The problem for blacks who game admissions testing is that once they get in they are found out for the dullards they generally are.
    , @I, commenter
    Um no we are complaining about orientals the same way we complain about hispanics and blacks- your unethical behavior is destroying our society.
    , @bomag

    complain about... complain about
     
    The general complaint is that POC move to America, Europe et al and set up ethnic enclaves, while Euro-Ams current fetish for universalism precludes them from moving and setting up their own enclaves in other countries. So the battle is on two fronts: Yan Shen is moving in on the premise of superiority; the other group is moving in on the premise of feelz! and privilege.

    I'd like to have a posterity that doesn't include the slums brought in by other groups.

    I'll admit here that Yan Shen and company seem better aware of the general rule in life that societies, like test prep, operate by copying from the smartest guy in the room; and credentials: it's all about the credentials.
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  3. donut says:

    Steve and Ron turn to crime :

    The donut turns to drink :

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I’ve missed you, Sir.
    , @Johnny Smoggins
    The video of the drunk guy made my day.
    , @al gore rhythms
    If you gave that drunk a bowler hat and a stick you could almost be watching a silent film era comedy. All it needs is some title cards saying things like "I was just admiring the view from your floor, shopkeeper"
    , @Buck Turgidson
    Somehow I knew he'd be going for a 12-pack, and not a mere 6er that obviously would not have been enough.
    , @I, commenter
    In the 90s i remember reading about a guy who held up a bank around noon on a friday- apparently it was a bank favored by cops to cash checks and it was payday. When he pulled out his gun he was met with over a dozen.
    , @AndrewR
    I've probably been approximately that drunk two or three times in my life, but, at those times, more alcohol was the last thing on earth that I desired.
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  4. eah says:

    I guess such parents aren’t.

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    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lamppost
    , @Anonymous
    Don't forget her bio.

    Sociologist. Expert on race + technology. Author/editor of 5 books. Currently writing: Tweetstorm (book), personal essays + memoir. She/her. #Resist
    jessiedaniels.net
     
    She works full-time at this.
    , @Forbes
    As soon as JessieNYC commits suicide, we'll know she's fulfilled her commitment to dismantling white supremacy. But until then, words from her are just talk. What's needed is action.
    , @jbwilson24
    Good lord... so if you are white, either: (1) do not have children, and help your ethnic group to die out; (2) have mongrel children, or; (3) if you do have children, make sure they aren't successful.

    Wackos like this are the reason that my wife and I intend to home school our children. In fact, we are thinking of moving to Hong Kong or Singapore, to get away from all the cultural marxism and anti-white hatred.
    , @Thea
    I think we all realized the was coming. It's pretty clear the psycho-left's only objective now is genicidal, anti-white hatred.
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  5. Do parents view NBA careers differently based upon Ethnicity?

    Allison Roda, an assistant professor of education at Molloy College in Long Island, interviewed more than 50 white, Asian, and Hispanic parents at an unidentified New York City school to learn about their attitudes towards NBA careers. (Her sample did not include any black parents.)

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    • Replies: @njguy73
    Yeah, and her next book, "How To Be A Shortstop In The Major Leagues," will not include any interviews with anyone from the Dominican Republic.
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  6. Forbes says:

    Test-prep is now considered “gaming” the system? Bizarre.

    In this view, studying would be an unfair advantage. And actually attending school is white privilege. All students should be required to miss the same number of school days–for fairness.

    And 50 white, black and Hispanic parents isn’t much of a sample for making generalizations attributable to race/ethnicity.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    Lebron James is well known for his voracious work ethic and intense physical prepping regimes. Just think how his uh gaming of the system cheated others out of a lucrative career in the NBA!
    , @Days of Broken Arrows
    I was going to say the exact same thing.

    Actually, the Atlantic's use of the word "gaming" in this context is a type of linguistic trickery, which is something the media does a lot. In using that word, they make it seem like white people are doing something covert or wrong, when they're not.

    This is very similar to the way people would disparage folks in the old days by insinuating they did something morally wrong without actually coming out and saying it. The difference is that back then, adultery would earn you scorn, today it's...er prepping for a test?!?!

    I don't think so. Nice try, Atlantic.
    , @Joe Walker
    True studying involves mastering the entire course, not just the parts that will be on the exam. These test-prep centers operate by focusing on the parts of the course that will most likely be on the test and ignoring the rest. In my opinion, that is not true education.
    , @Anon7
    Apparently you don't understand the argument. "Gaming the system" means that you gain an advantage if, for example, you spend time studying the structure of the test, rather than the knowledge base that the exam purports to test. You "trim the tree" (of knowledge!) by deciding that you only need to know the 2,000 words covered on the test rather than the 100,000's of thousands actually used. And so on.

    Once you've done all that, you relentlessly take practice tests over and over and over. If you want to know if this method works, take a look at the graph shown above.

    I, on the other hand, was a purist who strictly followed the rules in 1972: preparation for the test consisted of getting a good night's sleep, eating a good breakfast and bringing two sharpened number two pencils!

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  7. Luke Lea says:

    I was so naive that when I took the physics SAT achievement test in 1959, I assumed it would be graded on a curve for people like me who had never taken a physics course!

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    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    My test monitor told us that we wouldn't be "graded" on the number of right answers overall, just the number we got right out of those we answered. We had no idea that we should have plowed through the test as quickly as possible. I left at least an entire page unanswered (at least). It wasn't till years later that I learned that that wasn't really how the tests were graded.

    Test prep? Hah, that meant having a bowl of cornflakes before we walked a mile to our high school cafeteria too early on a Saturday morning for some dumb test. We were literally clueless. Once I got there my biggest concern was whether we were supposed to have brought our own pencils or would they be supplied?

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  8. Yan Shen says:

    Here’s Charles Murray opining on the matter…

    I am not reporting a scholarly literature with a two-sided debate. No study published in a peer-reviewed journal shows average gains approaching the fabled 100-point and 200-point jumps you hear about in anecdotes. While preparing this article, I asked Kaplan and Princeton Review for such evidence. Kaplan replied that it chooses not to release data for proprietary reasons. Princeton Review did not respond at all.

    But the coaching business is booming, with affluent parents being the best customers. If the payoff is really so small, why has the market judged coaching to be so successful?

    Most obviously, parents who pay for expensive coaching courses ignore the role of self-selection: the students who seem to profit from a coaching course tend to be those who, if the course had not been available, would have worked hard on their own to prepare for the test.

    Then parents confuse the effects of coaching with the effect of the basic preparation that students can do on their own. No student should walk into the SAT cold. It makes sense for students to practice some sample items, easily available from school guidance offices and online, and to review their algebra textbook if it has been a few years since they have taken algebra. But once a few hours have been spent on these routine steps, most of the juice has been squeezed out of preparation for the SAT. Combine self-selection artifacts with the role of basic preparation, and you have the reason that independent studies using control groups show such small average gains from formal coaching.

    Charles Murray provides one of the few voices of sanity on the matter here. Most formal studies show relatively little gains from test prep. My guess is that smarter people also tend to be more conscientious and probably more likely to prep thoroughly, leading to the mistaken conclusion that somehow coaching has significant effects. This is probably similar to how because there are correlations between parental SES and child test scores, sometimes people claim that therefore socioeconomic factors explain disparities in achievement, when in reality what’s probably going on is that higher SES parents also tend to be smarter to begin with and pass on those genes to their children.

    Regarding Asian test scores, has anyone analyzed to what extent changing patterns of immigration account for the rise in Asian American SAT scores over the past 20 years?

    Another reason why standardized test scores seem reliable is that Asian American performance on them seems to follow the typical math/verbal split reflected in the psychometric literature. See for instance this post by Steve. In other words, there’s nothing particularly surprising about the way Asian Americans perform on these tests relative to what decades of IQ testing seems to suggest.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/scores-by-race-on-lsat-gre-mcat-gmat-and-dat/

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  9. Likewise, being organized and prepared for work, especially being willing to put in extra hours, is also “cheating.”

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Not to mention little things like showing up on time.
    , @Joe Walker
    It is cheating if you only concentrate on the parts of the course that are most likely to be on the exam and ignore the rest. Which would you rather go to: a doctor who had a good overall knowledge of medicine or one who has a good overall knowledge of the parts of medicine most likely to be on medical exams?
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  10. Yan Shen says:

    Anyway, it’s worth thinking about a national commission, say paid for by the Pentagon (a huge user of standardized tests), to evaluate cheating, gaming, and prepping realities and recommend best practices for tests.

    For example, in the past the SAT test used a 2,000 word list of vocabulary words for vocabulary questions. Test preppers would get their hands on the list and memorize the current 2,000 words.

    Don’t be naive. Use all 45,000 or whatever words in the English language as the basis for vocabulary questions.

    Another possibility is to make use of test prep to actually teach test-takers knowledge rather than just tricks for gaming the test. For example, include a section of questions take from the AP tests on American history, chemistry, English literature and so forth.

    Okay let’s see if Steve actually responds to these 2 points.

    1) Peer reviewed studies, as pointed out by Charles Murray, generally show minimal effects from formal coaching. I’ve suggested that probably what’s going on is that smarter people are more likely to be conscientious to begin with. My guess is any significant changes in standardized testing scores for the Asian American category probably reflects an underlying shift in the human capital pool given the highly diverse immigration patterns of Asians to this country.

    2) Regarding SAT verbal vocabulary… According to your own articles, Asian American performance on standardized testing reflects a fairly clear math/verbal split. On certain highly verbal tests, they seem to do less well than white Americans. The main delta from what I can observe is that they’re significantly better than white Americans on quantitative tests. Doesn’t this agree with everything we know from the psychometric literature? It’s not particularly surprising then that Asians tend to do so well on the entrance exams to elite STEM schools in this country.

    In other words, all of this is, when you think about it, much ado about nothing!

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  11. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The sudden drop looks like 2016 to me. The SAT was redesigned in March, 2016.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That plus Trump's election cut off the flow of all the brilliant new immigrants we need, both to increase scores and motivate the lazy natives to get off their asses.
    , @Joe Schmoe
    My son was in the first group to take the new SAT. However, I noticed the colleges posted higher required scores for students taking the new version, so I assumed it was easier. Probably just more high schools forcing more students to take the test. I didn't check, but if many more students took the test, then that could be a cause.
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  12. I taught at a university (biology). Asians students are very good at certain types of tests especially standardized (multiple choice). They have sharp focus compared to other students. However, in terms of “creative reasoning” they are terrible. If you change the questions just a little bit it often throws them off. Essays are another matter entirely since they are no better and often worse than other students. As many others have noticed they do not participate in class discussions or share knowledge readily. (side note: American students are usually taught by the B.F. Skinner method which leads to linear learning in my estimation. This is often called The Behavioral Objective Method which has destroyed education in my view. Once again change the question just a little bit and students have problems even the supposed gifted ones. I believe this is because they haven’t really mastered the material and is the major problem with the Skinner method and his devotees. Asians do worse in my opinion which makes me believe they have great memories but can’t grasp heavy context sometimes. I’m not saying all of them are this way but I think this is “telling” of how many of them learn).

    There is a great debate by many professors (in their offices not in the public domain) whether Asians are that smart or just very good at memory and test taking. They are extremely good in physics and in mathematical models. Is this ability a cultural thing? I don’t know and the stuff I’ve read seems to be all over the map.

    Asian are noted for fake studies and data manipulation in many scientific fields. There are number of websites that list these retracted studies and there are a lot of Asian scientists. I don’t know if this is because they have a massive number of scientists or because they try to cheat more. It would be interesting if someone calculated what the percentage for scientific retractions from different countries is.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Can we just say Orientals, as those are the people we're talking about here? OK, that out of the way, in reply to you, NightRanger, let me put iSteve's paragraph here first:

    Chinese immigrants, in turn, tended to feel that the Kaplans of America were genetic arrivistes at test prep, compared to the Chinese who had been evolving under the Imperial mandarin exam system of Darwinian selection for high test scores for dozens of generations. The Kaplans and Schumers are soft and do not understand what it is to eat bitter rice.
     
    This, and a comment I wrote a few months back may answer your question about whether the test-taking abilitiy is just a cultural thing. There are 2 factors, I think, that make the Chinese, especially, genetically good at memorization. These are 1) the fact that a language based on 5,000 or more characters, each with 10-20 damn squiggles, requires a hellacious amount of memorization. Additionally, (2), the long history of that country, as the paragraph above states, included a system in their society in which the literate people (Mandarins?) would get ahead in life, as they could get jobs in government*. These literate people were naturally good memorizers due to (1), the ridiculousness of that written language. Natural selection would imply that said Mandarins would create more offspring, hence causing an increase in the memorization skills of the population over the centuries.

    The Oriental culture of emphasis on education is one thing, but these people can also memorize like you wouldn't believe, and may not be able to yourself. And yeah, they aren't particularly concerned with all that Euro-American fair-play nonsense.
    .
    .
    .

    * China, from the time of the Poontang Dynasty onwards, was bizarro-America, where the smart people worked in government, while in America it's the stupid people that work in government. I brought that up to a guy I was chatting with one time. It turned out he worked for the Forest Service. I made an exception for him!
    , @Moses
    In my experience Asians have high processing power. They can learn rules of complex systems (say, calculus or physics) and apply very well.

    They’re far weaker in problem solving that requires creative or intuitive insight above and beyond application of rote methods.

    I believe this is the reason we see high technical ability in east asia but little breakthrough innovation. It also explains utter lack of Asian-generated scientific or technical advancement throughout all history.
    , @TheJester
    Anecdotes ...

    I once read that Chinese need to memorize at least 4,500 characters to be able to read a newspaper. Hence, of necessity, Orientals are trained for rote memory. My personal experience with Muslims in the Middle East is the same, especially the ones who have allegedly memorized the Quran.

    In the military, I once asked why the Saudi gate guards were not checking ID cards. The answer was that they had memorized faces from previous entries, which was more secure than ID cards.

    I ran across a software development manager in Germany who preferred to hire Americans rather than German and Indian software developers. He said that the Indians, especially, tended to code to specifications and nothing more. The Americans, on the other hand, were the only ones who would come to him and say, "You have a problem here," or, "There is a better way to do this." In short, they engaged in abstract problem-solving.

    In our community in Northern Virginia (which has a large immigrant population), Korean children go to special schools ... after school ... to drill on course material. It is my understanding that the children are expected to make straight "A"s ... or else.

    The point is that culture definitely plays a role in how one navigates the challenges of life. It is probably no accident that Silicon Valley is located in the United States and not China, Japan, Germany, or the Middle East. In most other cultures (especially Asian), people are trained to respect authority and tradition and function "inside the box". In the United States, a greater number of people are inclined to disrespect authority and tradition and "do away with the box".

    Is the lesson that cultures that stress tradition and rote memorization work against creativity?
    , @Luke Lea

    Asian are noted for fake studies and data manipulation in many scientific fields. There are number of websites that list these retracted studies and there are a lot of Asian scientists. I don’t know if this is because they have a massive number of scientists or because they try to cheat more.
     
    I am curious how these traits are going to play out in the Chinese economy in the years ahead. Already with a government controlled banking system, no independent judiciary, and no freedom of speech or of the press, add in the culture of mendacity, and you have got to think they are really flying blind. For instance, China builds a complete national freeway system as extensive as ours in less than ten years, over much of which there is very little traffic (see Peter Hetzler's Country Driving), and you have to wonder about the quality of the concrete that went into it and the future of maintenance. Marxist-Leninism is still the official ideology (plus Xi-ism now I suppose) but the Chinese Communist Party is still subject to the most basic laws of economics: squander your people's life-savings on gigantic boondoggle projects for the sake of full-employment, and there will be the devil to pay.

    Add in tens of millions of excess unmarried males and thank God you are not one of China's near neighbors. One if by land, two if by sea.
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  13. Clyde says:

    I rarely if ever see Steve give a lol but it is there up above because Everybody Knows (Leonard Cohen) that the dice are loaded by Asian parents (here in USA) and so called tiger moms, done personally and via after hours SAT prep schools. White parents are late to this show.

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  14. donut says:

    Hildebeast is shocked and appalled . An “admitted sexual assaulter is in the Oval Office”

    She for her part likes the BBC .

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  15. Yan Shen says:
    @Forbes
    Test-prep is now considered "gaming" the system? Bizarre.

    In this view, studying would be an unfair advantage. And actually attending school is white privilege. All students should be required to miss the same number of school days--for fairness.

    And 50 white, black and Hispanic parents isn't much of a sample for making generalizations attributable to race/ethnicity.

    Lebron James is well known for his voracious work ethic and intense physical prepping regimes. Just think how his uh gaming of the system cheated others out of a lucrative career in the NBA!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    LOL!

    My son has lots of Asian friends because there are so many Asians here. It is true that they do focus on doing well in school and on tests. My son spent lots of time at baseball practice and didn't do test prep and only a few AP classes. Yet he does fine with his Asian friends who were top students at very competitive high schools. Mostly Asians in the USA do well because you can't walk here from Asia. All his smart Asian friends have smart Asian parents that have doctorates in STEM, so the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. As for poor Asians doing as well, I think there is quite a bit less of that going on. They aren't acing exams like the kids of scientists. The ones I know whose parents ran restaurants and stuff are doing fine but are not geniuses. Some are pretty smart and others were just good students. Most are going for good jobs, not Ph.D's. As for south and east Asians going all out on tests, that could be because they aren't that far removed from their very crowded countries and so they really want pleasant lives here.
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  16. Trelane says:

    Allison Roda, an assistant professor of education at Molloy College in Long Island, interviewed more than 50 white, black, and Hispanic parents at an unidentified New York City school to learn about

    * Allison Roda is an affirmative action (non-meritocratic) woman of color
    * An assistant professor is a simple lecturer and is the lowest rank at university only marginally above custodian
    * Molloy college on Long Island is located in dubious Rockville Center and is ranked 611th in the US with a median SAT score of 1055 which is barely at the level considered “prepared for college/possibly able to do 101-level college work”
    * A sample size of 50 hand-picked subjects has statistical validity not much better than N=1
    * An “unidentified” (top secret) NYC school is not a random sample

    Otherwise seems ok

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    An assistant professor is a simple lecturer and is the lowest rank at university only marginally above custodian
     
    I was going to say adjunct is lower, but they are lower than custodians.
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  17. Thanks to “diversity” we’re going to end up with the worst traits of every race, ethnicity and culture.

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    • Replies: @black sea
    This is an interesting thought.

    It's often observed that the best aspects of American culture don't travel well, while the worst spread like viruses. What if this is generally true for cultures?
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  18. LKM says:

    OT: Just in case you were wondering what The Current Year is, we have this story from Canada:

    Link

    In short, queer latinx ‘artist’ Lido Pimienta demanded during a show in Halifax that whites move to the back of the venue to make room at the front for “brown girls”. When some whites refused, she threw a bit of a hissy fit. But don’t worry, Ms. Pimienta, festival organizers won’t let racism go unchallenged:

    A statement on behalf of the festival’s board of directors addresses the singer directly and promises to make changes to improve “anti-oppression and anti-racism training” over the next year.

    “We are sorry that one of our volunteers interrupted your art, your show, and your audience by being aggressive and racist,” reads a Facebook post signed by vice-chairman Georgie Dudka.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Now that story really bothers me. Not because of race realism but because it should not be acceptable to mistreat people just because they're white. Or any other race/ethnicity.
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  19. map says:

    Asians are barely represented in inventing any of the math and science they are supposedly good at. The advent of Asians dominating tech, science and math has led to a slow-down in technological and scientific development since the 1970′s.

    Compare the 50 year period between 1920 and 1970 to the (almost) 50 year period between 1970 and the present.

    The earlier period had revolutionary changes in technology.

    The current period has mainly minor evolutionary changes. Minor, because given enough time, anyone would eventually figure out the changes that evolved.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Europe would be a good control to test this. Most immigrants to Europe aren't in the universities and science fields. It would be interesting to see Europe's performance relative to the US since the 70s.

    At any rate, I don't think Asians dominated tech, science, and math as far back as the 70s. Perhaps late 90s, 21st century is when Asian overrepresentation became very significant.
    , @bomag

    Asians are barely represented in inventing any of the math and science they are supposedly good at.
     
    Let's be fair. At the highest levels of art and science, Asians are plenty innovative. The Japanese team often wins the world puzzle championship.

    There is the low hanging fruit phenomenon, where it gets harder to make the big leaps in discovery.

    We should accurately acknowledge a people's strengths and accomplishments. This does not mean we should give them our society in the name of meritocracy.
    , @Peter Johnson
    Terence Tao is one of the highest-regarded mathematicians of the 21st century so far.
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  20. If someone has mastered the 200o words of vocabulary needed to ace the SAT vocabulary test, then they have that knowledge and know what those words mean so I don’t see the problem.

    I have two daughters in a public elementary school in the US and what bugs me is the total lack of focus in the education provided.

    Really the only things that ought to count are being able to read and write and to do some manipulation with numbers–the rest of the indoctrination about dinosaurs and saving the planet and drawing pictures of your family that the kids get is all fluff to fill out the timetable when the teachers cannot find some excuse to shut the school for the day or send the kids home early.

    If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?

    “NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!”

    Read More
    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Somehow the idea got out that abstract thinking is higher class than concrete, so everything gets pushed toward the abstract.
    , @Fluesterwitz
    Mr. Gradgrind as a role-model for teachers? So much for the the Great Tradition. Sad.
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  21. @Luke Lea
    I was so naive that when I took the physics SAT achievement test in 1959, I assumed it would be graded on a curve for people like me who had never taken a physics course!

    My test monitor told us that we wouldn’t be “graded” on the number of right answers overall, just the number we got right out of those we answered. We had no idea that we should have plowed through the test as quickly as possible. I left at least an entire page unanswered (at least). It wasn’t till years later that I learned that that wasn’t really how the tests were graded.

    Test prep? Hah, that meant having a bowl of cornflakes before we walked a mile to our high school cafeteria too early on a Saturday morning for some dumb test. We were literally clueless. Once I got there my biggest concern was whether we were supposed to have brought our own pencils or would they be supplied?

    Read More
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  22. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What are some websites with fake and retracted studies?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    Retraction Watch:

    http://retractionwatch.com/
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  23. @Forbes
    Test-prep is now considered "gaming" the system? Bizarre.

    In this view, studying would be an unfair advantage. And actually attending school is white privilege. All students should be required to miss the same number of school days--for fairness.

    And 50 white, black and Hispanic parents isn't much of a sample for making generalizations attributable to race/ethnicity.

    I was going to say the exact same thing.

    Actually, the Atlantic’s use of the word “gaming” in this context is a type of linguistic trickery, which is something the media does a lot. In using that word, they make it seem like white people are doing something covert or wrong, when they’re not.

    This is very similar to the way people would disparage folks in the old days by insinuating they did something morally wrong without actually coming out and saying it. The difference is that back then, adultery would earn you scorn, today it’s…er prepping for a test?!?!

    I don’t think so. Nice try, Atlantic.

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  24. @Jonathan Mason
    If someone has mastered the 200o words of vocabulary needed to ace the SAT vocabulary test, then they have that knowledge and know what those words mean so I don't see the problem.

    I have two daughters in a public elementary school in the US and what bugs me is the total lack of focus in the education provided.

    Really the only things that ought to count are being able to read and write and to do some manipulation with numbers--the rest of the indoctrination about dinosaurs and saving the planet and drawing pictures of your family that the kids get is all fluff to fill out the timetable when the teachers cannot find some excuse to shut the school for the day or send the kids home early.

    If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?

    “NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!”

    Somehow the idea got out that abstract thinking is higher class than concrete, so everything gets pushed toward the abstract.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    Because concrete reasoning is more important for getting a job and making your way through life. Thus focus on abstract thinking shows how high class you are, that you are smart enough to master both. It belongs to the long tradition of the elite screwing over every else to show off how wonderful they are.
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  25. @Daniel Chieh
    Likewise, being organized and prepared for work, especially being willing to put in extra hours, is also "cheating."

    Not to mention little things like showing up on time.

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  26. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen
    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    Exactly. I love Steve, but every time I begin to think this is a site for realtalk, someone comes up and says all East Asians get ahead by test prep, or cheating.

    And even the ones who admit East Asians have higher iq will follow up with some blather about them being less creative.

    It takes confidence to be creative. Asians in America are raised diffident and they get more diffident because they’re tiny and weak and white people steal their girls. Asians in Asia, like the Japanese, are plenty creative.

    Some whites seem to have the erroneous conception that just because white countries are currently dominant, that must mean white people are genetically superior. That’s hogwash.

    Israel is much poorer than America and yet ashkenazi Jews are genetically far superior to the average American. Hong Kong is far richer than China but genetically there is little difference between the two. Same for North and south Korea. Or Dubai versus Bahrain.

    Read More
    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    So are you denying that many Asians cheat when it comes to tests? Also, who says that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically superior to the average American? The average Ashkenazi Jews scores better on IQ tests than the average white person but this does not mean that they are genetically superior. To be genetically superior, Ashkenazi Jews would have to be better on all traits, not just intelligence.
    , @Friend of Order
    Israel's IQ is 97. Even if you only take the Jews, and the secular ones at that, they don't do that well on heavily G-loaded test like PISA. Israel has since dropped out of the test, but 2009 was the last time that they didn't spike their sample and they were significantly below average.

    Also, if Israel's Jews are so smart, why is Israel not Switzerland? Israel hasn't had a major war since the Yom Kippur war in 1973. All major conflicts since then has been against much weaker opponents and often not even a coherent state. So you can't blame "muh wars".

    You judge a people based on the society they form. Indians do well in the diaspora. Yet India is a shithole compared to China. Nordics and Germanic peoples create much better countries than Israel. And as I pointed out, given that Israel hasn't had a serious war against a serious opponent in over 50 years(Lebanon doesn't count, because the Jews attacked them first and once they withdrew, Hezbollah wanted peace, because there is total asymmetry between the two), that excuse is not there.

    If you look at East Asia, one can say that they create decent societies but the best Western ones are still better on the HDI ranking. I know it may hurt your feelings, but the list is what it is. Deal with it.
    , @Frau Katze
    I agree. For all the talk about race realism, many (but not all) of Steve's readers do not like the fact that they're not at the top of heap, at least measured by IQ tests.

    I'm plain European white and I'm not bothered.

    The IQ difference with Asians is not that much. Ashkenazi Jews have a larger edge, but there aren't very many of them in the world as a whole.

    Clearly white Europeans were intelligent enough to accomplish a great deal.
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  27. OT: Alexandria’s Christ Church commits the latest act of cultural vandalism: http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/10/28/george-washington-church-plaque-honoring-first-president-must-come-down

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  28. Glossy says: • Website

    downright anti-Sinic

    Steve, Sinitic is a word and “anti-Sinitic” would be funnier.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moses
    Second that. “Anti-Sinitic” is brilliant.

    We need a similar clinical-sounding word for anti-White.
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  29. “If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?”

    Ha, ha, ha. My lord, people are morons.

    First, there are tons of kids who can’t learn 6 new words per day. I’ve taught many kids who are incapable of memorizing the times table. Even more frustrating, some of them are capable of algebra. Others aren’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Ha, ha, ha. My lord, people are morons.
     
    Your sample size of one is unlikely large enough to draw valid conclusions about the whole population.
    , @Rod1963
    Well it doesn't take much for you to label people morons you disagree with.

    Assuming your first grade students aren't all 3rd world peasants with the IQ's of simpletons. They should be able to learn the times table since it's rote memorization quite rapidly.

    Same with learning new words every day.

    , @sondjata
    I never did memorize the multiplication table and fractions killed my chances at mastering calculus but I damn sure memorized three different Blackjack basic strategy charts as well as determining true counts to make money. Sometimes it's about incentivizing rather than actual intelligence.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    First, there are tons of kids who can’t learn 6 new words per day. I’ve taught many kids who are incapable of memorizing the times table.
     
    Of course kids can learn 6 words per day. The problem is that teachers don't want to teach 6 words per day.

    My daughter who just turned 5 a few weeks ago--OK she is a fairly smart kid, but no genius-- came to the US in May 2016 speaking only Spanish plus whatever English she had picked up from watching Peppa Pig cartoons in English and by November was speaking English pretty much fluently and had forgotten how to speak Spanish. The point of this is not that my child is smart, but that young children have an innate drive to learn language, so teachers ought to exploit that.

    But memorizing is just a matter of constant repetition until it comes naturally. Teachers today make the mistake of thinking that kids are supposed to UNDERSTAND numbers. They just need to LEARN them and some will understand later, though many will not.

    I speak Spanish fluently now. At the age of 50 I did not speak Spanish at all. I learned most of my basic Spanish by playing CDs while I was driving, sometimes long distances. I would repeat the exercises aloud for long periods. Sometimes I was doing this while my mind was completely elsewhere, however I was still learning, and after about 6 months I knew enough sentences to make people think I spoke Spanish and to have a conversation, make hotel reservations on the phone, and so on.

    Same goes for learning to play the piano. You do not need to understand much of anything, you just have to repeat the exercises over and over, and your fingers will learn the patterns. If you then learn some theory, that will give you useful shortcuts to accelerate the process, but it is not absolutely necessary.

    Same for typing, come to think of it.
    , @Frau Katze
    Incapable of learning times tables but capable of algebra?

    In my day (started Grade 1 in 1957) copious amounts of time were spent not just memorizing times tables but also doing plenty of time multiplying three digit numbers together and learning long division. It took several grades to do all this.

    You couldn't make it through all that without the times tables being drilled into your head.

    I'm one who is not particularly skilled at rote learning (but had no problem with algebra). Nonetheless the education I describe was extensive enough so that eventually knew the times tables well (and still do).

    I never met anyone who was good with algebra but didn't know the times tables.

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  30. @donut
    Steve and Ron turn to crime :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuMFfRvuMs

    The donut turns to drink :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2XeVs4wqdE

    I’ve missed you, Sir.

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  31. @Anon
    The sudden drop looks like 2016 to me. The SAT was redesigned in March, 2016.

    That plus Trump’s election cut off the flow of all the brilliant new immigrants we need, both to increase scores and motivate the lazy natives to get off their asses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    And by "motivate the lazy natives to get off their asses", you mean learn how to cheat by only concentrating on the stuff that will be on the exam?
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  32. njguy73 says:
    @David Blackboard
    Do parents view NBA careers differently based upon Ethnicity?

    Allison Roda, an assistant professor of education at Molloy College in Long Island, interviewed more than 50 white, Asian, and Hispanic parents at an unidentified New York City school to learn about their attitudes towards NBA careers. (Her sample did not include any black parents.)

    Yeah, and her next book, “How To Be A Shortstop In The Major Leagues,” will not include any interviews with anyone from the Dominican Republic.

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    • LOL: ic1000
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  33. donut says:

    Michael Lee Aday

    Read More
    • Replies: @donut
    I am humbled . Not proud nor arrogant .
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  34. “(Anybody know why there was a sudden drop in test scores in 2017?)”

    Maybe I should point out that actually everyone’s SAT scores went up because incorrect answers are no longer penalized. The graph corrects raw SAT data with the conversion table for comparisons between old and new scores. Perhaps black and Hispanic students were not as good at leaving questions blank judiciously, so they benefited from the change. Asian ACT scores continued to rise.

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  35. OT — “Fellow White People” who hate hate hate actual whites:

    In Slate: Confronting White Womanhood at the Women’s Convention

    Only a small fraction were able to make it into the panel discussion, titled “Confronting White Womanhood,” making it the most popular event I’ve seen that didn’t boast a big-name headliner.

    After a brief welcome, facilitator, Sophie Ellman-Golan, who heads up social media for the Women’s March team, got right down to business: “I’m going to start things out with Emmett Till.”

    “When white women say we’re frightened of scary black men, really bad things happen,” said Ellman-Golan. She encouraged the women in the room to reconsider their perceptions of safety, especially when what makes them feel safe may compromise the safety of others around them. Acknowledging that what she was about to say was provocative, she offered a suggestion: “Don’t call the police. Don’t do it. How dare we choose as the enforcer of safety an institution that has demonstrated how deeply unsafe it is?”

    After a primer on “white savior-ism” from artist Heather Marie Scholl, the attendees split into groups of 15 to discuss how they’ve propagated white supremacy and how they might help build an anti-racist future.

    And from the Daily Mail:

    Writing in her popular blog Raising Race Conscious Children, parent blogger activist Sachi Feris urged parents not to dress their children up as characters from backgrounds different to their own as it is ‘cultural appropriation.’

    In her blog post, Feris also writes about Disney’s Frozen character:

    There is one thing I don’t like about the character of Elsa. I feel like because Elsa is a White princess, and we see so many White princesses, her character sends the message that you have to be a certain way to be “beautiful” or to be a “princess”…that you have to have White skin, long, blonde hair, and blue eyes. And I don’t like that message.

    Your white daughter shouldn’t dress up as Moana, because that’s racist cultural appropriation, and no one should dress as Elsa, because Feris hates pretty shiksas.

    Her bio:

    My name is Sachi Feris and I am a White, Jewish woman of Russian, Polish, Lebanese, Syrian, and Cuban descent. I am a mother to my daughter, born in 2012, and my son, born in 2015. My husband is from Argentina, so we speak Spanish as a family (I am not a native speaker).

    I have a B.A. from Bates College, an M.A. in Sociology and Education from Teachers College, Columbia University, and an M.P.A. in Public Policy from Baruch College’s School of Public Affairs. As an educator, I have been dedicated to social justice education and bringing issues of race and equity to our youngest children since 2000. I am the founder of Border Crossers, a nonprofit dedicated to racial equity. Currently, I teach Spanish part-time at an elementary school in Brooklyn.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    1. Marxist feels unsafe in situation involving black man
    2. Marxist does not call police because she is a Marxist
    3. Marxist gets injured or killed by black man

    I don't see the problem there tbh
    , @bartok

    Feris also writes about Disney’s Frozen character
     
    Before making their smash-hit whiter-than-white North Pole movie FROZEN, Disney anointed a bunch of non-white princesses, Jasmine, Pocohantas, Tiana and Mulan. Now every girl at Disneyland can be a princess of some hue or other.

    Elsa is the white-est princess in the history of animation, whiter than Snow White. She made Disney billions of dollars because little girls thrill to the white-est princess.
    , @AndrewR
    Honestly, I hope all Progressive™ females take that Fellow White female's advice to not trust their guts or ever call the police on men of blackmess.
    , @bomag

    Don’t call the police. Don’t do it.
     
    Wow. There's some good advice.

    Why do humans have this desire to jump off a cliff into oblivion? Or should I ask, why this desire to push other people off cliffs into oblivion?

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  36. Daniel H says:

    About 15 years ago, the Suffolk County, New York police department (a Suffolk cop is a very lucrative gig, BTW), in an attempt to boost the number of NAMS who scored high on the job admission test and would thus be hired, contracted with a test design firm that created a test that included biographical questions on the test. For instance, “Have you ever had a close relative, such as a brother, father, cousin or uncle, serve time in prison”. The correct answer, of course, was to answer yes. The test cramming schools figured this out and instructed their largely white clientele to answer appropriately for all these stupid questions. Well, as expected, almost all the hire-worthy scores went to whites. Several years later, after the hiring process was complete the department and the New York state attorney general’s office figured out that the white hirees had “gamed” the system and “cheated”. The State of New York and police department were actually contemplating a lawsuit to have white cops whose life stories conflicted with the answers they gave on the “objective” test fired. I believe that the ridiculousness of this became evident to even SJW State attorneys and they dropped the matter.

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  37. @eah
    I guess such parents aren't.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNQRv0tXUAA6Okd.jpg
    Read More
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  38. @Yan Shen
    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    Why on earth would anyone complain about Asian Americans?

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  39. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    OT — “Fellow White People” who hate hate hate actual whites:

    In Slate: Confronting White Womanhood at the Women’s Convention

    Only a small fraction were able to make it into the panel discussion, titled “Confronting White Womanhood," making it the most popular event I’ve seen that didn’t boast a big-name headliner.
     

    After a brief welcome, facilitator, Sophie Ellman-Golan, who heads up social media for the Women’s March team, got right down to business: “I’m going to start things out with Emmett Till.”
     

    “When white women say we’re frightened of scary black men, really bad things happen,” said Ellman-Golan. She encouraged the women in the room to reconsider their perceptions of safety, especially when what makes them feel safe may compromise the safety of others around them. Acknowledging that what she was about to say was provocative, she offered a suggestion: “Don’t call the police. Don’t do it. How dare we choose as the enforcer of safety an institution that has demonstrated how deeply unsafe it is?”
     

    After a primer on "white savior-ism" from artist Heather Marie Scholl, the attendees split into groups of 15 to discuss how they’ve propagated white supremacy and how they might help build an anti-racist future.
     
    And from the Daily Mail:

    Writing in her popular blog Raising Race Conscious Children, parent blogger activist Sachi Feris urged parents not to dress their children up as characters from backgrounds different to their own as it is 'cultural appropriation.'

     

    In her blog post, Feris also writes about Disney’s Frozen character:

    There is one thing I don’t like about the character of Elsa. I feel like because Elsa is a White princess, and we see so many White princesses, her character sends the message that you have to be a certain way to be “beautiful” or to be a “princess”…that you have to have White skin, long, blonde hair, and blue eyes. And I don’t like that message.

     

    Your white daughter shouldn’t dress up as Moana, because that’s racist cultural appropriation, and no one should dress as Elsa, because Feris hates pretty shiksas.

    Her bio:

    My name is Sachi Feris and I am a White, Jewish woman of Russian, Polish, Lebanese, Syrian, and Cuban descent. I am a mother to my daughter, born in 2012, and my son, born in 2015. My husband is from Argentina, so we speak Spanish as a family (I am not a native speaker).

    I have a B.A. from Bates College, an M.A. in Sociology and Education from Teachers College, Columbia University, and an M.P.A. in Public Policy from Baruch College’s School of Public Affairs. As an educator, I have been dedicated to social justice education and bringing issues of race and equity to our youngest children since 2000. I am the founder of Border Crossers, a nonprofit dedicated to racial equity. Currently, I teach Spanish part-time at an elementary school in Brooklyn.
     

    1. Marxist feels unsafe in situation involving black man
    2. Marxist does not call police because she is a Marxist
    3. Marxist gets injured or killed by black man

    I don’t see the problem there tbh

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  40. Tiny Duck says:

    if you come from a population that has been, in essence, “gamed” out of rights and opportunity, then you don’t want to do that to others. So it makes sense to me that the families would eschew strenuous test prep. I am sure they would be ecstatic if their kids were to pass. In many ways, they actually have more faith in the system: they believe the evaluators can actually identify true, biological giftedness. Sad…

    The truth is that once white people have no power then the works can start becoming livable

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    • Replies: @Sgt. Joe Friday
    Oh FFS TD, why don't you move to a majority black or brown country so you can demonstrate your your virtue and quit bothering the rest of us?
    , @Daniel H
    >>if you come from a population that has been, in essence, “gamed” out of rights and opportunity, then you don’t want to do that to others. So it makes sense to me that the families would eschew strenuous test prep.

    Ha, ha. Tiny, this is too much, even for you. Stop pulling our legs.
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  41. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @eah
    I guess such parents aren't.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNQRv0tXUAA6Okd.jpg

    Don’t forget her bio.

    Sociologist. Expert on race + technology. Author/editor of 5 books. Currently writing: Tweetstorm (book), personal essays + memoir. She/her. #Resist
    jessiedaniels.net

    She works full-time at this.

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    • Replies: @eah
    She's also Jewish -- I showed this in a later, now lost comment.
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  42. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…WASP views on what is sporting and the proper role of amateurism.”

    I don’t think most people in the world will ever really get this, that some of the hardest work in the world is done just for fun. Because people enjoy it. Perhaps because people to well at things they enjoy.

    Which reminds me: Just for Fun.

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  43. Forbes says:
    @eah
    I guess such parents aren't.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNQRv0tXUAA6Okd.jpg

    As soon as JessieNYC commits suicide, we’ll know she’s fulfilled her commitment to dismantling white supremacy. But until then, words from her are just talk. What’s needed is action.

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  44. @Desiderius
    Somehow the idea got out that abstract thinking is higher class than concrete, so everything gets pushed toward the abstract.

    Because concrete reasoning is more important for getting a job and making your way through life. Thus focus on abstract thinking shows how high class you are, that you are smart enough to master both. It belongs to the long tradition of the elite screwing over every else to show off how wonderful they are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Thus focus on abstract thinking shows how high class you are, that you are smart enough to master both.
     
    No, they skip the both part and just do the abstract. That's why our elite (sic) only talk in generalities. They are incompetent at specifics.
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  45. @niteranger
    I taught at a university (biology). Asians students are very good at certain types of tests especially standardized (multiple choice). They have sharp focus compared to other students. However, in terms of "creative reasoning" they are terrible. If you change the questions just a little bit it often throws them off. Essays are another matter entirely since they are no better and often worse than other students. As many others have noticed they do not participate in class discussions or share knowledge readily. (side note: American students are usually taught by the B.F. Skinner method which leads to linear learning in my estimation. This is often called The Behavioral Objective Method which has destroyed education in my view. Once again change the question just a little bit and students have problems even the supposed gifted ones. I believe this is because they haven't really mastered the material and is the major problem with the Skinner method and his devotees. Asians do worse in my opinion which makes me believe they have great memories but can't grasp heavy context sometimes. I'm not saying all of them are this way but I think this is "telling" of how many of them learn).

    There is a great debate by many professors (in their offices not in the public domain) whether Asians are that smart or just very good at memory and test taking. They are extremely good in physics and in mathematical models. Is this ability a cultural thing? I don't know and the stuff I've read seems to be all over the map.

    Asian are noted for fake studies and data manipulation in many scientific fields. There are number of websites that list these retracted studies and there are a lot of Asian scientists. I don't know if this is because they have a massive number of scientists or because they try to cheat more. It would be interesting if someone calculated what the percentage for scientific retractions from different countries is.

    Can we just say Orientals, as those are the people we’re talking about here? OK, that out of the way, in reply to you, NightRanger, let me put iSteve’s paragraph here first:

    Chinese immigrants, in turn, tended to feel that the Kaplans of America were genetic arrivistes at test prep, compared to the Chinese who had been evolving under the Imperial mandarin exam system of Darwinian selection for high test scores for dozens of generations. The Kaplans and Schumers are soft and do not understand what it is to eat bitter rice.

    This, and a comment I wrote a few months back may answer your question about whether the test-taking abilitiy is just a cultural thing. There are 2 factors, I think, that make the Chinese, especially, genetically good at memorization. These are 1) the fact that a language based on 5,000 or more characters, each with 10-20 damn squiggles, requires a hellacious amount of memorization. Additionally, (2), the long history of that country, as the paragraph above states, included a system in their society in which the literate people (Mandarins?) would get ahead in life, as they could get jobs in government*. These literate people were naturally good memorizers due to (1), the ridiculousness of that written language. Natural selection would imply that said Mandarins would create more offspring, hence causing an increase in the memorization skills of the population over the centuries.

    The Oriental culture of emphasis on education is one thing, but these people can also memorize like you wouldn’t believe, and may not be able to yourself. And yeah, they aren’t particularly concerned with all that Euro-American fair-play nonsense.
    .
    .
    .

    * China, from the time of the Poontang Dynasty onwards, was bizarro-America, where the smart people worked in government, while in America it’s the stupid people that work in government. I brought that up to a guy I was chatting with one time. It turned out he worked for the Forest Service. I made an exception for him!

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  46. White parents game the system when choosing parents for their children.

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  47. Enochian says:

    Has anyone ever looked into the idea that centuries of standardized testing have left the Chinese better at answering test questions but worse at actual innovation than, say, their ancestors were back during the Song dynasty?

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  48. bartok says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    OT — “Fellow White People” who hate hate hate actual whites:

    In Slate: Confronting White Womanhood at the Women’s Convention

    Only a small fraction were able to make it into the panel discussion, titled “Confronting White Womanhood," making it the most popular event I’ve seen that didn’t boast a big-name headliner.
     

    After a brief welcome, facilitator, Sophie Ellman-Golan, who heads up social media for the Women’s March team, got right down to business: “I’m going to start things out with Emmett Till.”
     

    “When white women say we’re frightened of scary black men, really bad things happen,” said Ellman-Golan. She encouraged the women in the room to reconsider their perceptions of safety, especially when what makes them feel safe may compromise the safety of others around them. Acknowledging that what she was about to say was provocative, she offered a suggestion: “Don’t call the police. Don’t do it. How dare we choose as the enforcer of safety an institution that has demonstrated how deeply unsafe it is?”
     

    After a primer on "white savior-ism" from artist Heather Marie Scholl, the attendees split into groups of 15 to discuss how they’ve propagated white supremacy and how they might help build an anti-racist future.
     
    And from the Daily Mail:

    Writing in her popular blog Raising Race Conscious Children, parent blogger activist Sachi Feris urged parents not to dress their children up as characters from backgrounds different to their own as it is 'cultural appropriation.'

     

    In her blog post, Feris also writes about Disney’s Frozen character:

    There is one thing I don’t like about the character of Elsa. I feel like because Elsa is a White princess, and we see so many White princesses, her character sends the message that you have to be a certain way to be “beautiful” or to be a “princess”…that you have to have White skin, long, blonde hair, and blue eyes. And I don’t like that message.

     

    Your white daughter shouldn’t dress up as Moana, because that’s racist cultural appropriation, and no one should dress as Elsa, because Feris hates pretty shiksas.

    Her bio:

    My name is Sachi Feris and I am a White, Jewish woman of Russian, Polish, Lebanese, Syrian, and Cuban descent. I am a mother to my daughter, born in 2012, and my son, born in 2015. My husband is from Argentina, so we speak Spanish as a family (I am not a native speaker).

    I have a B.A. from Bates College, an M.A. in Sociology and Education from Teachers College, Columbia University, and an M.P.A. in Public Policy from Baruch College’s School of Public Affairs. As an educator, I have been dedicated to social justice education and bringing issues of race and equity to our youngest children since 2000. I am the founder of Border Crossers, a nonprofit dedicated to racial equity. Currently, I teach Spanish part-time at an elementary school in Brooklyn.
     

    Feris also writes about Disney’s Frozen character

    Before making their smash-hit whiter-than-white North Pole movie FROZEN, Disney anointed a bunch of non-white princesses, Jasmine, Pocohantas, Tiana and Mulan. Now every girl at Disneyland can be a princess of some hue or other.

    Elsa is the white-est princess in the history of animation, whiter than Snow White. She made Disney billions of dollars because little girls thrill to the white-est princess.

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  49. “(Her sample did not include any Asian parents.)”

    Ha ha ha ha. Shameless.

    How can they get away with this crap? You leave out the most significant group when it comes to test prep.

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  50. Moses says:
    @niteranger
    I taught at a university (biology). Asians students are very good at certain types of tests especially standardized (multiple choice). They have sharp focus compared to other students. However, in terms of "creative reasoning" they are terrible. If you change the questions just a little bit it often throws them off. Essays are another matter entirely since they are no better and often worse than other students. As many others have noticed they do not participate in class discussions or share knowledge readily. (side note: American students are usually taught by the B.F. Skinner method which leads to linear learning in my estimation. This is often called The Behavioral Objective Method which has destroyed education in my view. Once again change the question just a little bit and students have problems even the supposed gifted ones. I believe this is because they haven't really mastered the material and is the major problem with the Skinner method and his devotees. Asians do worse in my opinion which makes me believe they have great memories but can't grasp heavy context sometimes. I'm not saying all of them are this way but I think this is "telling" of how many of them learn).

    There is a great debate by many professors (in their offices not in the public domain) whether Asians are that smart or just very good at memory and test taking. They are extremely good in physics and in mathematical models. Is this ability a cultural thing? I don't know and the stuff I've read seems to be all over the map.

    Asian are noted for fake studies and data manipulation in many scientific fields. There are number of websites that list these retracted studies and there are a lot of Asian scientists. I don't know if this is because they have a massive number of scientists or because they try to cheat more. It would be interesting if someone calculated what the percentage for scientific retractions from different countries is.

    In my experience Asians have high processing power. They can learn rules of complex systems (say, calculus or physics) and apply very well.

    They’re far weaker in problem solving that requires creative or intuitive insight above and beyond application of rote methods.

    I believe this is the reason we see high technical ability in east asia but little breakthrough innovation. It also explains utter lack of Asian-generated scientific or technical advancement throughout all history.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  51. @education realist
    "If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?"

    Ha, ha, ha. My lord, people are morons.

    First, there are tons of kids who can't learn 6 new words per day. I've taught many kids who are incapable of memorizing the times table. Even more frustrating, some of them are capable of algebra. Others aren't.

    Ha, ha, ha. My lord, people are morons.

    Your sample size of one is unlikely large enough to draw valid conclusions about the whole population.

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  52. Rod1963 says:

    Everyone does test prep.

    Twenty years ago I was doing test prep to get my MCSE and CISCO certs. It was a PITA but it worked. And that’s what most other IT people did.

    But we also got techs with certs who never had real world experience as well. To a large extent those experienced in the field didn’t give to much weight to the certs. It was what you could do that mattered.

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  53. @eah
    I guess such parents aren't.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNQRv0tXUAA6Okd.jpg

    Good lord… so if you are white, either: (1) do not have children, and help your ethnic group to die out; (2) have mongrel children, or; (3) if you do have children, make sure they aren’t successful.

    Wackos like this are the reason that my wife and I intend to home school our children. In fact, we are thinking of moving to Hong Kong or Singapore, to get away from all the cultural marxism and anti-white hatred.

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    • Replies: @ic1000
    At #38, Scarlet Number contributed this one-liner --

    > White parents game the system when choosing parents for their children.

    While clever and amusing, it aptly captures the theme of Asst. Prof. Rhoda's research [sic] and of Senora Christina Viega's Atlantic article.

    This sentiment can unite all of us, in our diversity. POC are on board, as are as are the multitude of whites who have incorporated race-hatred into their core self identity. Links in the comments illustrate both. And elite whites are up to the task of reconciling this public stance and a private decision to mate assortatively. "Four legs good, two legs bad" isn't much of a problem, when you and your allies are the ones doing the defining and implementing.

    For badwhites of Flyover Country, boot on the face is a small price to pay, from a utilitarian perspective. Serves 'em right, anyway.
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  54. @Tiny Duck
    if you come from a population that has been, in essence, "gamed" out of rights and opportunity, then you don't want to do that to others. So it makes sense to me that the families would eschew strenuous test prep. I am sure they would be ecstatic if their kids were to pass. In many ways, they actually have more faith in the system: they believe the evaluators can actually identify true, biological giftedness. Sad...

    The truth is that once white people have no power then the works can start becoming livable

    Oh FFS TD, why don’t you move to a majority black or brown country so you can demonstrate your your virtue and quit bothering the rest of us?

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    • Replies: @Tiny Duck
    No

    Only when whites are left nowhere to run and hide will their evil be vanquished
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  55. I love it when you get on your WASP high horse!

    Later, ethnic rivals like Stanley Kaplan and his 14-year-old assistant, little Chuckie “Four 800s” Schumer (D-NY), felt that WASP notions of fair play on tests were for losers, and probably, when you stop and think about it, were hatefully anti-Semitic.

    Chinese immigrants, in turn, tended to feel that the Kaplans of America were genetic arrivistes at test prep, compared to the Chinese who had been evolving under the Imperial mandarin exam system of Darwinian selection for high test scores for dozens of generations. The Kaplans and Schumers are soft and do not understand what it is to eat bitter rice.

    Beautiful.

    If you could keep up these levels of sarcasm and produce a book of the same quality I’d buy it in a flash.

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  56. @Yan Shen
    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    UH not quite, it would be the same if we were gaming your nation – but nice try. You know if I were as smart as asians and jews are supposed to be Id be preparing for when we stop putting up with this and you guys have o you know build viable nations of your own and invent stuff etc

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  57. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Yan Shen
    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    You don’t do well at reading comprehension, do you?

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  58. Tiny Duck says:
    @Sgt. Joe Friday
    Oh FFS TD, why don't you move to a majority black or brown country so you can demonstrate your your virtue and quit bothering the rest of us?

    No

    Only when whites are left nowhere to run and hide will their evil be vanquished

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  59. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    Exactly. I love Steve, but every time I begin to think this is a site for realtalk, someone comes up and says all East Asians get ahead by test prep, or cheating.

    And even the ones who admit East Asians have higher iq will follow up with some blather about them being less creative.

    It takes confidence to be creative. Asians in America are raised diffident and they get more diffident because they're tiny and weak and white people steal their girls. Asians in Asia, like the Japanese, are plenty creative.

    Some whites seem to have the erroneous conception that just because white countries are currently dominant, that must mean white people are genetically superior. That's hogwash.

    Israel is much poorer than America and yet ashkenazi Jews are genetically far superior to the average American. Hong Kong is far richer than China but genetically there is little difference between the two. Same for North and south Korea. Or Dubai versus Bahrain.

    So are you denying that many Asians cheat when it comes to tests? Also, who says that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically superior to the average American? The average Ashkenazi Jews scores better on IQ tests than the average white person but this does not mean that they are genetically superior. To be genetically superior, Ashkenazi Jews would have to be better on all traits, not just intelligence.

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  60. donut says:
    @donut
    Michael Lee Aday

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1U9aVfXKBY

    I am humbled . Not proud nor arrogant .

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  61. Daniel H says:
    @Tiny Duck
    if you come from a population that has been, in essence, "gamed" out of rights and opportunity, then you don't want to do that to others. So it makes sense to me that the families would eschew strenuous test prep. I am sure they would be ecstatic if their kids were to pass. In many ways, they actually have more faith in the system: they believe the evaluators can actually identify true, biological giftedness. Sad...

    The truth is that once white people have no power then the works can start becoming livable

    >>if you come from a population that has been, in essence, “gamed” out of rights and opportunity, then you don’t want to do that to others. So it makes sense to me that the families would eschew strenuous test prep.

    Ha, ha. Tiny, this is too much, even for you. Stop pulling our legs.

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  62. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Forbes
    Test-prep is now considered "gaming" the system? Bizarre.

    In this view, studying would be an unfair advantage. And actually attending school is white privilege. All students should be required to miss the same number of school days--for fairness.

    And 50 white, black and Hispanic parents isn't much of a sample for making generalizations attributable to race/ethnicity.

    True studying involves mastering the entire course, not just the parts that will be on the exam. These test-prep centers operate by focusing on the parts of the course that will most likely be on the test and ignoring the rest. In my opinion, that is not true education.

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  63. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Daniel Chieh
    Likewise, being organized and prepared for work, especially being willing to put in extra hours, is also "cheating."

    It is cheating if you only concentrate on the parts of the course that are most likely to be on the exam and ignore the rest. Which would you rather go to: a doctor who had a good overall knowledge of medicine or one who has a good overall knowledge of the parts of medicine most likely to be on medical exams?

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    No, it's not, it is the incompetence or corruption of the test maker/test giver.
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  64. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Desiderius
    That plus Trump's election cut off the flow of all the brilliant new immigrants we need, both to increase scores and motivate the lazy natives to get off their asses.

    And by “motivate the lazy natives to get off their asses”, you mean learn how to cheat by only concentrating on the stuff that will be on the exam?

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  65. @donut
    Steve and Ron turn to crime :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuMFfRvuMs

    The donut turns to drink :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2XeVs4wqdE

    The video of the drunk guy made my day.

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  66. Lurker says:
    @Yan Shen
    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    If only Asians had some countries of their own where they could live away from the hateful depredations of whites. . .

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    As the hysteria of Japan bashing during the late 1980s and early 1990s showed, Asian bashing is as American as baseball or apple pie and certainly doesn't require Asians to actually live anywhere near white Americans.
    , @Moses
    The only thing worse than living in a country built by racist Whites is not being allowed to immigrate to a country built by racist Whites.
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  67. Yan Shen says:
    @Lurker
    If only Asians had some countries of their own where they could live away from the hateful depredations of whites. . .

    As the hysteria of Japan bashing during the late 1980s and early 1990s showed, Asian bashing is as American as baseball or apple pie and certainly doesn’t require Asians to actually live anywhere near white Americans.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Ah yes, the poor, pitiable, put-upon Japanese. Having to endure insults and disdain from Americans who demeaned their products and didn’t care for their unilateral incursions into American markets (try selling American cars in Japan...).

    Why, it’s all an unimaginable atrocity in light of the uninterrupted goodwill and peace the Japanese have always shown to Americans. I mean, “Japan-bashing” is one step below a devious invasion launched during continuing diplomatic negotiations and reassurances of a commitment to avoid war at all costs, and we all remember when the nasty Americans did THAT back on 7 December of 1941....


    It just never stops with those hateful Americans, does it?
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Mr. Shen, the Japan-bashing didn't happen in the 1990's. You are off by 5 decades. It was in the mid-1940's in which Americans undertook true Japan-bashing:

    Too soon?
    .
    .
    .

    with inspiration from Autochthon.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Mr. Shen, the Japan-bashing didn't happen in the 1990's. You are off by 5 decades. It was in the mid-1940's in which Americans undertook true Japan-bashing:

    http://www.peakstupidity.com/images/little_boy_over_hiroshima.jpg

    Too soon?
    .
    .
    .

    with inspiration from Autochthon.

    , @Lurker
    Please list the white nations where whites are actually allowed to remain a majority and a majority in their major institutions.
    , @AndrewR
    It's heartwarming to see how your hatred of Caucasian-Americans has allowed you to show such affection towards the people who brutally raped and murdered millions of your people in their mission to dominate the Pacific.
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  68. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Overlooking Asians in NYC obviously done willfully. Stuyvesant HS, the most selective of the public magnet schools in NYC, 72.5% Asian, 18% White .

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    • Replies: @Hail

    Stuyvesant HS, the most selective of the public magnet schools in NYC, 72.5% Asian, 18% White .
     
    Presuming many of those 18% are Jewish and most of the Asians are East-Asian, you are talking about East-Asia outnumbering Christian-Europe in that elite school perhaps four-, five-, six-to-one; perhaps more.

    Razib Khan once something very close to a call for restricting Asian access to elite schools (something already happening quietly, as per Ron Unz' research) for the national interest.

    Razib Khan in May 2015:

    you can’t manufacture leadership and charisma. Harvard’s role is to educate and inculcate the leaders of the next generation of Americans. It is the training ground for our natural aristocracy. Can American society actually conceive of a situation where 40% of those leaders are Asian? I doubt it. Asian Americans are not seen as plausible leaders. Especially by the established oligarchs, who would prefer their own offspring to inherit the mantles of power. [...]

    we just need to be honest. Perhaps the cultural skills and dispositions that Asian Americans bring to the labor force are naturally more amenable to technical positions and professions like medicine than they are to management. [....] The fact is that Asian Americans are doing relatively well, even if their proportion at Harvard is 20% instead of 40%. Do we as a society need to abolish all discrimination by any means necessary? I’d say no.
     
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  69. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Plenty of ignorant hand waving. Why dont you all read this and see the ranking.

    “””PISA 2012 Results: Creative Problem Solving: Students’ skills in tackling real-life problems (Volume V)”””

    http://www.oecd.org/education/pisa-2012-results-volume-v.htm

    http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/PISA-2012-PS-snapshot-performance.pdf

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    • Replies: @Friend of Order
    Yeah, I never bought the myth of "lacking Asian creativity". Always smelled like BS. That said, I don't doubt that there is some truth to Asians being pre-disposed to test prep cheating. There have been several scams/scandals in Korea in plenty of their SAT prep houses where the teachers help the students a little, eh, "enthusiastically".

    But that doesn't distract from the fact that the myth that Asians have less creativity has no real credible foundation.
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  70. @Jonathan Mason
    If someone has mastered the 200o words of vocabulary needed to ace the SAT vocabulary test, then they have that knowledge and know what those words mean so I don't see the problem.

    I have two daughters in a public elementary school in the US and what bugs me is the total lack of focus in the education provided.

    Really the only things that ought to count are being able to read and write and to do some manipulation with numbers--the rest of the indoctrination about dinosaurs and saving the planet and drawing pictures of your family that the kids get is all fluff to fill out the timetable when the teachers cannot find some excuse to shut the school for the day or send the kids home early.

    If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?

    “NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!”

    Mr. Gradgrind as a role-model for teachers? So much for the the Great Tradition. Sad.

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  71. @Yan Shen
    As the hysteria of Japan bashing during the late 1980s and early 1990s showed, Asian bashing is as American as baseball or apple pie and certainly doesn't require Asians to actually live anywhere near white Americans.

    Ah yes, the poor, pitiable, put-upon Japanese. Having to endure insults and disdain from Americans who demeaned their products and didn’t care for their unilateral incursions into American markets (try selling American cars in Japan…).

    Why, it’s all an unimaginable atrocity in light of the uninterrupted goodwill and peace the Japanese have always shown to Americans. I mean, “Japan-bashing” is one step below a devious invasion launched during continuing diplomatic negotiations and reassurances of a commitment to avoid war at all costs, and we all remember when the nasty Americans did THAT back on 7 December of 1941….

    It just never stops with those hateful Americans, does it?

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  72. For those that asked which sites show retracted papers: http://www.retractionwatch.com A couple of years ago there were a really large number of retracted papers by Asian scientists in Cell Biology if I remember correctly. It’s been a while. Retraction watch is probably the most visited.

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  73. Rod1963 says:
    @education realist
    "If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?"

    Ha, ha, ha. My lord, people are morons.

    First, there are tons of kids who can't learn 6 new words per day. I've taught many kids who are incapable of memorizing the times table. Even more frustrating, some of them are capable of algebra. Others aren't.

    Well it doesn’t take much for you to label people morons you disagree with.

    Assuming your first grade students aren’t all 3rd world peasants with the IQ’s of simpletons. They should be able to learn the times table since it’s rote memorization quite rapidly.

    Same with learning new words every day.

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  74. anon • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-winning-leads-to-cheating/

    Winners cheat. Losers whinge.

    How did Capt. Kirk got to command the Enterprise?

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  75. black sea says:
    @Sgt. Joe Friday
    Thanks to "diversity" we're going to end up with the worst traits of every race, ethnicity and culture.

    This is an interesting thought.

    It’s often observed that the best aspects of American culture don’t travel well, while the worst spread like viruses. What if this is generally true for cultures?

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    • Replies: @bomag
    This probably goes along with the general observation that nature selects for mere survival rather than higher culture. Culture requires more effort, thus it is more prone to extinction in hard times.
    , @AndrewR
    It's hard to say. I think even the most anti-American Japanese nationalists would admit that Japan is a much more pleasant place to live than it would have been without the American occupation. Well, maybe not all of them would, but I think most reasonable people would agree. Modern Japan is largely a synthesis of the best aspects of Japanese culture and the best aspects of American culture.
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  76. @Samuel Skinner
    Because concrete reasoning is more important for getting a job and making your way through life. Thus focus on abstract thinking shows how high class you are, that you are smart enough to master both. It belongs to the long tradition of the elite screwing over every else to show off how wonderful they are.

    Thus focus on abstract thinking shows how high class you are, that you are smart enough to master both.

    No, they skip the both part and just do the abstract. That’s why our elite (sic) only talk in generalities. They are incompetent at specifics.

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  77. Hail says: • Website
    @anon
    Overlooking Asians in NYC obviously done willfully. Stuyvesant HS, the most selective of the public magnet schools in NYC, 72.5% Asian, 18% White .

    Stuyvesant HS, the most selective of the public magnet schools in NYC, 72.5% Asian, 18% White .

    Presuming many of those 18% are Jewish and most of the Asians are East-Asian, you are talking about East-Asia outnumbering Christian-Europe in that elite school perhaps four-, five-, six-to-one; perhaps more.

    Razib Khan once something very close to a call for restricting Asian access to elite schools (something already happening quietly, as per Ron Unz’ research) for the national interest.

    Razib Khan in May 2015:

    you can’t manufacture leadership and charisma. Harvard’s role is to educate and inculcate the leaders of the next generation of Americans. It is the training ground for our natural aristocracy. Can American society actually conceive of a situation where 40% of those leaders are Asian? I doubt it. Asian Americans are not seen as plausible leaders. Especially by the established oligarchs, who would prefer their own offspring to inherit the mantles of power. [...]

    we just need to be honest. Perhaps the cultural skills and dispositions that Asian Americans bring to the labor force are naturally more amenable to technical positions and professions like medicine than they are to management. [....] The fact is that Asian Americans are doing relatively well, even if their proportion at Harvard is 20% instead of 40%. Do we as a society need to abolish all discrimination by any means necessary? I’d say no.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    The same patterns are replicated throughout the White Nations of Europe and the Anglosphere yet we aren't allowed to notice a pattern.

    Not even Steve Sailer, who has made a reputation for himself, rightly so, as the noticer of patterns best left unsaid, has ever commented on the fact that formerly White nations are under the same sustained attack each and everywhere, at the same time, no matter what history brought them to this moment.
    , @Anonymous
    Razib Khan is right in that schools like Harvard that position themselves to be finishing schools for a national leadership and governing class can't really have classes whose composition differs significantly from the current leadership and governing class or "established oligarchs," and from the wider population which it purports to lead or govern, without disrupting the social order.

    Part of the reason WASP dominance of such institutions declined was that the wider population itself had ceased to be as dominated by WASPs as it had been. And one of the original reasons for increasing "diversity" at such institutions was to increase the representation of all the groups among the wider population which it purports to lead or govern, particularly the more restive minorities who threatened to challenge its legitimacy and leadership.
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  78. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @map
    Asians are barely represented in inventing any of the math and science they are supposedly good at. The advent of Asians dominating tech, science and math has led to a slow-down in technological and scientific development since the 1970's.

    Compare the 50 year period between 1920 and 1970 to the (almost) 50 year period between 1970 and the present.

    The earlier period had revolutionary changes in technology.

    The current period has mainly minor evolutionary changes. Minor, because given enough time, anyone would eventually figure out the changes that evolved.

    Europe would be a good control to test this. Most immigrants to Europe aren’t in the universities and science fields. It would be interesting to see Europe’s performance relative to the US since the 70s.

    At any rate, I don’t think Asians dominated tech, science, and math as far back as the 70s. Perhaps late 90s, 21st century is when Asian overrepresentation became very significant.

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  79. @donut
    Steve and Ron turn to crime :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuMFfRvuMs

    The donut turns to drink :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2XeVs4wqdE

    If you gave that drunk a bowler hat and a stick you could almost be watching a silent film era comedy. All it needs is some title cards saying things like “I was just admiring the view from your floor, shopkeeper”

    Read More
    • Replies: @donut
    Yes except that was , is my reality . I am a hope to die drunk . A stumble dump drunk . And yet I'm so glad , I'm I glad , I'm glad I'm glad :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3GIQ86eu6c

    Just a Steve fan ,

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  80. @Hail

    Stuyvesant HS, the most selective of the public magnet schools in NYC, 72.5% Asian, 18% White .
     
    Presuming many of those 18% are Jewish and most of the Asians are East-Asian, you are talking about East-Asia outnumbering Christian-Europe in that elite school perhaps four-, five-, six-to-one; perhaps more.

    Razib Khan once something very close to a call for restricting Asian access to elite schools (something already happening quietly, as per Ron Unz' research) for the national interest.

    Razib Khan in May 2015:

    you can’t manufacture leadership and charisma. Harvard’s role is to educate and inculcate the leaders of the next generation of Americans. It is the training ground for our natural aristocracy. Can American society actually conceive of a situation where 40% of those leaders are Asian? I doubt it. Asian Americans are not seen as plausible leaders. Especially by the established oligarchs, who would prefer their own offspring to inherit the mantles of power. [...]

    we just need to be honest. Perhaps the cultural skills and dispositions that Asian Americans bring to the labor force are naturally more amenable to technical positions and professions like medicine than they are to management. [....] The fact is that Asian Americans are doing relatively well, even if their proportion at Harvard is 20% instead of 40%. Do we as a society need to abolish all discrimination by any means necessary? I’d say no.
     

    The same patterns are replicated throughout the White Nations of Europe and the Anglosphere yet we aren’t allowed to notice a pattern.

    Not even Steve Sailer, who has made a reputation for himself, rightly so, as the noticer of patterns best left unsaid, has ever commented on the fact that formerly White nations are under the same sustained attack each and everywhere, at the same time, no matter what history brought them to this moment.

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  81. Wally says: • Website
    @Yan Shen
    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    The problem for blacks who game admissions testing is that once they get in they are found out for the dullards they generally are.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    If blacks are attempting to game admissions testing of any kind, they seem to be doing a terrible job at it.
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  82. Yan Shen says:
    @Wally
    The problem for blacks who game admissions testing is that once they get in they are found out for the dullards they generally are.

    If blacks are attempting to game admissions testing of any kind, they seem to be doing a terrible job at it.

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  83. donut says:
    @al gore rhythms
    If you gave that drunk a bowler hat and a stick you could almost be watching a silent film era comedy. All it needs is some title cards saying things like "I was just admiring the view from your floor, shopkeeper"

    Yes except that was , is my reality . I am a hope to die drunk . A stumble dump drunk . And yet I’m so glad , I’m I glad , I’m glad I’m glad :

    Just a Steve fan ,

    Read More
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  84. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The best way to prep for the SAT, at least for the verbal part, is to read a lot, especially older novels and challenging non-fiction books. That’s how you pick up a large vocab and get better at reading comprehension and reading quickly. The test prep books and courses can’t make up for not having read a lot. I scored 800 on the verbal section the both times I took the SAT, and it was because I had read so much on my own in junior high and high school. And part of the reason I read so much was that there was nothing else to do at home. We didn’t have cable and the internet, but my dad had a lot of books at home and there was a library nearby. So I ended up reading a ton. If I hadn’t, I wouldn’t have done as well.

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  85. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail

    Stuyvesant HS, the most selective of the public magnet schools in NYC, 72.5% Asian, 18% White .
     
    Presuming many of those 18% are Jewish and most of the Asians are East-Asian, you are talking about East-Asia outnumbering Christian-Europe in that elite school perhaps four-, five-, six-to-one; perhaps more.

    Razib Khan once something very close to a call for restricting Asian access to elite schools (something already happening quietly, as per Ron Unz' research) for the national interest.

    Razib Khan in May 2015:

    you can’t manufacture leadership and charisma. Harvard’s role is to educate and inculcate the leaders of the next generation of Americans. It is the training ground for our natural aristocracy. Can American society actually conceive of a situation where 40% of those leaders are Asian? I doubt it. Asian Americans are not seen as plausible leaders. Especially by the established oligarchs, who would prefer their own offspring to inherit the mantles of power. [...]

    we just need to be honest. Perhaps the cultural skills and dispositions that Asian Americans bring to the labor force are naturally more amenable to technical positions and professions like medicine than they are to management. [....] The fact is that Asian Americans are doing relatively well, even if their proportion at Harvard is 20% instead of 40%. Do we as a society need to abolish all discrimination by any means necessary? I’d say no.
     

    Razib Khan is right in that schools like Harvard that position themselves to be finishing schools for a national leadership and governing class can’t really have classes whose composition differs significantly from the current leadership and governing class or “established oligarchs,” and from the wider population which it purports to lead or govern, without disrupting the social order.

    Part of the reason WASP dominance of such institutions declined was that the wider population itself had ceased to be as dominated by WASPs as it had been. And one of the original reasons for increasing “diversity” at such institutions was to increase the representation of all the groups among the wider population which it purports to lead or govern, particularly the more restive minorities who threatened to challenge its legitimacy and leadership.

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    • Replies: @Friend of Order
    One thing you miss is that most whites have always been excluded from Harvard. Pre-1960, Harvard and the Ivies were for the so-called blue bloods and not the white masses. Post-1960, affirmative action set in and in addition, as Unz as shown, a lot of 'whites' in Harvard today are underqualified Jews since there has been a significant decline in Jewish student achievement since the early 1990s.

    So, I don't know why some ignorant people pretend as if this exclusion is a new thing. It merely changed from class to race.

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  86. @donut
    Steve and Ron turn to crime :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuMFfRvuMs

    The donut turns to drink :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2XeVs4wqdE

    Somehow I knew he’d be going for a 12-pack, and not a mere 6er that obviously would not have been enough.

    Read More
    • Replies: @black sea
    Au contraire, he's planning ahead for the next morning.
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  87. @Anonymous
    Exactly. I love Steve, but every time I begin to think this is a site for realtalk, someone comes up and says all East Asians get ahead by test prep, or cheating.

    And even the ones who admit East Asians have higher iq will follow up with some blather about them being less creative.

    It takes confidence to be creative. Asians in America are raised diffident and they get more diffident because they're tiny and weak and white people steal their girls. Asians in Asia, like the Japanese, are plenty creative.

    Some whites seem to have the erroneous conception that just because white countries are currently dominant, that must mean white people are genetically superior. That's hogwash.

    Israel is much poorer than America and yet ashkenazi Jews are genetically far superior to the average American. Hong Kong is far richer than China but genetically there is little difference between the two. Same for North and south Korea. Or Dubai versus Bahrain.

    Israel’s IQ is 97. Even if you only take the Jews, and the secular ones at that, they don’t do that well on heavily G-loaded test like PISA. Israel has since dropped out of the test, but 2009 was the last time that they didn’t spike their sample and they were significantly below average.

    Also, if Israel’s Jews are so smart, why is Israel not Switzerland? Israel hasn’t had a major war since the Yom Kippur war in 1973. All major conflicts since then has been against much weaker opponents and often not even a coherent state. So you can’t blame “muh wars”.

    You judge a people based on the society they form. Indians do well in the diaspora. Yet India is a shithole compared to China. Nordics and Germanic peoples create much better countries than Israel. And as I pointed out, given that Israel hasn’t had a serious war against a serious opponent in over 50 years(Lebanon doesn’t count, because the Jews attacked them first and once they withdrew, Hezbollah wanted peace, because there is total asymmetry between the two), that excuse is not there.

    If you look at East Asia, one can say that they create decent societies but the best Western ones are still better on the HDI ranking. I know it may hurt your feelings, but the list is what it is. Deal with it.

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  88. @Anonymous
    Razib Khan is right in that schools like Harvard that position themselves to be finishing schools for a national leadership and governing class can't really have classes whose composition differs significantly from the current leadership and governing class or "established oligarchs," and from the wider population which it purports to lead or govern, without disrupting the social order.

    Part of the reason WASP dominance of such institutions declined was that the wider population itself had ceased to be as dominated by WASPs as it had been. And one of the original reasons for increasing "diversity" at such institutions was to increase the representation of all the groups among the wider population which it purports to lead or govern, particularly the more restive minorities who threatened to challenge its legitimacy and leadership.

    One thing you miss is that most whites have always been excluded from Harvard. Pre-1960, Harvard and the Ivies were for the so-called blue bloods and not the white masses. Post-1960, affirmative action set in and in addition, as Unz as shown, a lot of ‘whites’ in Harvard today are underqualified Jews since there has been a significant decline in Jewish student achievement since the early 1990s.

    So, I don’t know why some ignorant people pretend as if this exclusion is a new thing. It merely changed from class to race.

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  89. @anon
    Plenty of ignorant hand waving. Why dont you all read this and see the ranking.

    """PISA 2012 Results: Creative Problem Solving: Students’ skills in tackling real-life problems (Volume V)"""

    http://www.oecd.org/education/pisa-2012-results-volume-v.htm

    http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/PISA-2012-PS-snapshot-performance.pdf

    Yeah, I never bought the myth of “lacking Asian creativity”. Always smelled like BS. That said, I don’t doubt that there is some truth to Asians being pre-disposed to test prep cheating. There have been several scams/scandals in Korea in plenty of their SAT prep houses where the teachers help the students a little, eh, “enthusiastically”.

    But that doesn’t distract from the fact that the myth that Asians have less creativity has no real credible foundation.

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    • Replies: @Moses

    But that doesn’t distract from the fact that the myth that Asians have less creativity has no real credible foundation.
     
    You’ve never lived in Asia, have you? It would be obvious if you had.

    The Asian mean for creativity and imagination is materially left of the Euro mean.

    Just look at history. You can count on one hand the number of major scientific, mathematical or technological innovavations produced by Asians. You can count hundreds (thousands maybe) produced by Europeans.

    Creativity and imagination are key to scientific, mathematical and technological breakthroughs. Asians are smart, sure, in the same way spreadsheets are smart (i’m talking population means, not absolutes). That’s not a fair comparison and terribly exaggerated, but there’s a kernel of truth there.
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  90. TheJester says:
    @niteranger
    I taught at a university (biology). Asians students are very good at certain types of tests especially standardized (multiple choice). They have sharp focus compared to other students. However, in terms of "creative reasoning" they are terrible. If you change the questions just a little bit it often throws them off. Essays are another matter entirely since they are no better and often worse than other students. As many others have noticed they do not participate in class discussions or share knowledge readily. (side note: American students are usually taught by the B.F. Skinner method which leads to linear learning in my estimation. This is often called The Behavioral Objective Method which has destroyed education in my view. Once again change the question just a little bit and students have problems even the supposed gifted ones. I believe this is because they haven't really mastered the material and is the major problem with the Skinner method and his devotees. Asians do worse in my opinion which makes me believe they have great memories but can't grasp heavy context sometimes. I'm not saying all of them are this way but I think this is "telling" of how many of them learn).

    There is a great debate by many professors (in their offices not in the public domain) whether Asians are that smart or just very good at memory and test taking. They are extremely good in physics and in mathematical models. Is this ability a cultural thing? I don't know and the stuff I've read seems to be all over the map.

    Asian are noted for fake studies and data manipulation in many scientific fields. There are number of websites that list these retracted studies and there are a lot of Asian scientists. I don't know if this is because they have a massive number of scientists or because they try to cheat more. It would be interesting if someone calculated what the percentage for scientific retractions from different countries is.

    Anecdotes …

    I once read that Chinese need to memorize at least 4,500 characters to be able to read a newspaper. Hence, of necessity, Orientals are trained for rote memory. My personal experience with Muslims in the Middle East is the same, especially the ones who have allegedly memorized the Quran.

    In the military, I once asked why the Saudi gate guards were not checking ID cards. The answer was that they had memorized faces from previous entries, which was more secure than ID cards.

    I ran across a software development manager in Germany who preferred to hire Americans rather than German and Indian software developers. He said that the Indians, especially, tended to code to specifications and nothing more. The Americans, on the other hand, were the only ones who would come to him and say, “You have a problem here,” or, “There is a better way to do this.” In short, they engaged in abstract problem-solving.

    In our community in Northern Virginia (which has a large immigrant population), Korean children go to special schools … after school … to drill on course material. It is my understanding that the children are expected to make straight “A”s … or else.

    The point is that culture definitely plays a role in how one navigates the challenges of life. It is probably no accident that Silicon Valley is located in the United States and not China, Japan, Germany, or the Middle East. In most other cultures (especially Asian), people are trained to respect authority and tradition and function “inside the box”. In the United States, a greater number of people are inclined to disrespect authority and tradition and “do away with the box”.

    Is the lesson that cultures that stress tradition and rote memorization work against creativity?

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  91. @Yan Shen
    As the hysteria of Japan bashing during the late 1980s and early 1990s showed, Asian bashing is as American as baseball or apple pie and certainly doesn't require Asians to actually live anywhere near white Americans.

    Mr. Shen, the Japan-bashing didn’t happen in the 1990′s. You are off by 5 decades. It was in the mid-1940′s in which Americans undertook true Japan-bashing:

    Too soon?
    .
    .
    .

    with inspiration from Autochthon.

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  92. @Yan Shen
    As the hysteria of Japan bashing during the late 1980s and early 1990s showed, Asian bashing is as American as baseball or apple pie and certainly doesn't require Asians to actually live anywhere near white Americans.

    Mr. Shen, the Japan-bashing didn’t happen in the 1990′s. You are off by 5 decades. It was in the mid-1940′s in which Americans undertook true Japan-bashing:

    Too soon?
    .
    .
    .

    with inspiration from Autochthon.

    Read More
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  93. black sea says:
    @Buck Turgidson
    Somehow I knew he'd be going for a 12-pack, and not a mere 6er that obviously would not have been enough.

    Au contraire, he’s planning ahead for the next morning.

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  94. sondjata says: • Website
    @education realist
    "If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?"

    Ha, ha, ha. My lord, people are morons.

    First, there are tons of kids who can't learn 6 new words per day. I've taught many kids who are incapable of memorizing the times table. Even more frustrating, some of them are capable of algebra. Others aren't.

    I never did memorize the multiplication table and fractions killed my chances at mastering calculus but I damn sure memorized three different Blackjack basic strategy charts as well as determining true counts to make money. Sometimes it’s about incentivizing rather than actual intelligence.

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  95. Moses says:
    @Glossy
    downright anti-Sinic

    Steve, Sinitic is a word and "anti-Sinitic" would be funnier.

    Second that. “Anti-Sinitic” is brilliant.

    We need a similar clinical-sounding word for anti-White.

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  96. Moses says:
    @Lurker
    If only Asians had some countries of their own where they could live away from the hateful depredations of whites. . .

    The only thing worse than living in a country built by racist Whites is not being allowed to immigrate to a country built by racist Whites.

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  97. jim jones says:
    @Anonymous
    What are some websites with fake and retracted studies?

    Retraction Watch:

    http://retractionwatch.com/

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  98. @donut
    Steve and Ron turn to crime :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuMFfRvuMs

    The donut turns to drink :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2XeVs4wqdE

    In the 90s i remember reading about a guy who held up a bank around noon on a friday- apparently it was a bank favored by cops to cash checks and it was payday. When he pulled out his gun he was met with over a dozen.

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    • Replies: @donut
    When in my innocence , a relative term , I first moved to B-More in 1993 there was a news item in the paper . A Blackfella went into a bank downtown to rob it . His hold up note was written on the deposit slip from a different bank . The teller actually had the nerve to tell him that he was in the wrong bank and he would need to go down the street to the right bank . He retrieved his note and left . She called 911 and the Napoleon of crime was met at the next bank by the PoPo . I'm not sure what the charge could have been . Stupidity ?
    He gets the Bronze . The Silver goes to B-More native who was discharged from the Army in Texas . Broke probably and decided with another one of Obama's sons to rob a convenience store , that being where the money is , what did Willie Sutton know ?
    Sutton's law
    Main article: Sutton's law

    In a famous apocryphal story, Sutton was asked by reporter Mitch Ohnstad why he robbed banks. According to Ohnstad, he replied, "Because that's where the money is." The quote evolved into Sutton's law, which is often invoked to medical students as a metaphor for focusing a workup on the most likely diagnosis, rather than wasting time and money investigating every conceivable possibility.

    In his autobiography, Sutton denied originating the pithy rejoinder:

    The irony of using a bank robber's maxim as an instrument for teaching medicine is compounded, I will now confess, by the fact that I never said it. The credit belongs to some enterprising reporter who apparently felt a need to fill out his copy. I can't even remember where I first read it. It just seemed to appear one day, and then it was everywhere.

    If anybody had asked me, I'd have probably said it. That's what almost anybody would say ... it couldn't be more obvious.

    Or could it?

    Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later I'd be out looking for the next job. But to me the money was the chips, that's all.[1]

    The Redlands Daily Facts published the earliest documented example of Sutton's law on March 15, 1952 in Redlands, California.[9]

    A corollary, the "Willie Sutton rule," used in management accounting, stipulates that activity-based costing (in which activities are prioritized by necessity, and budgeted accordingly) should be applied where the highest costs occur, because that is where the biggest savings can be found.[10]

    Anyway in the course of this robbery they murdered the clerk . The U.S. Army trained these two BTW , "Be all that you can be" . Thank you for your service .
    He returns to his home town W/O a plan . The BPD has an add in the News Paper asking for recruits . He goes to apply . On the application there is a question about any criminal Hx or acts . Are you sitting down ? The guy confesses to the armed robbery and murder in Tx. . And the Democrats want to let felons vote .

    The Gold Medal up for grabs .

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  99. @Yan Shen
    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    Um no we are complaining about orientals the same way we complain about hispanics and blacks- your unethical behavior is destroying our society.

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  100. Moses says:
    @Friend of Order
    Yeah, I never bought the myth of "lacking Asian creativity". Always smelled like BS. That said, I don't doubt that there is some truth to Asians being pre-disposed to test prep cheating. There have been several scams/scandals in Korea in plenty of their SAT prep houses where the teachers help the students a little, eh, "enthusiastically".

    But that doesn't distract from the fact that the myth that Asians have less creativity has no real credible foundation.

    But that doesn’t distract from the fact that the myth that Asians have less creativity has no real credible foundation.

    You’ve never lived in Asia, have you? It would be obvious if you had.

    The Asian mean for creativity and imagination is materially left of the Euro mean.

    Just look at history. You can count on one hand the number of major scientific, mathematical or technological innovavations produced by Asians. You can count hundreds (thousands maybe) produced by Europeans.

    Creativity and imagination are key to scientific, mathematical and technological breakthroughs. Asians are smart, sure, in the same way spreadsheets are smart (i’m talking population means, not absolutes). That’s not a fair comparison and terribly exaggerated, but there’s a kernel of truth there.

    Read More
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  101. bomag says:
    @Yan Shen
    In other words, blacks and Hispanics complain about white Americans in the same way that white Americans complain about Asian Americans? Ouch.

    complain about… complain about

    The general complaint is that POC move to America, Europe et al and set up ethnic enclaves, while Euro-Ams current fetish for universalism precludes them from moving and setting up their own enclaves in other countries. So the battle is on two fronts: Yan Shen is moving in on the premise of superiority; the other group is moving in on the premise of feelz! and privilege.

    I’d like to have a posterity that doesn’t include the slums brought in by other groups.

    I’ll admit here that Yan Shen and company seem better aware of the general rule in life that societies, like test prep, operate by copying from the smartest guy in the room; and credentials: it’s all about the credentials.

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  102. Anon7 says:
    @Forbes
    Test-prep is now considered "gaming" the system? Bizarre.

    In this view, studying would be an unfair advantage. And actually attending school is white privilege. All students should be required to miss the same number of school days--for fairness.

    And 50 white, black and Hispanic parents isn't much of a sample for making generalizations attributable to race/ethnicity.

    Apparently you don’t understand the argument. “Gaming the system” means that you gain an advantage if, for example, you spend time studying the structure of the test, rather than the knowledge base that the exam purports to test. You “trim the tree” (of knowledge!) by deciding that you only need to know the 2,000 words covered on the test rather than the 100,000′s of thousands actually used. And so on.

    Once you’ve done all that, you relentlessly take practice tests over and over and over. If you want to know if this method works, take a look at the graph shown above.

    I, on the other hand, was a purist who strictly followed the rules in 1972: preparation for the test consisted of getting a good night’s sleep, eating a good breakfast and bringing two sharpened number two pencils!

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  103. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    How exactly is practicing for a high-stakes exam “gaming the system”? If you train for hours a day, for weeks on end, to prepare for an upcoming wrestling match, are you gaming the system? What if you practice the piano for hours a day to get ready for a recital or audition? Is that cheating? When I think of “gaming the system” I think of those companies that create fake CVs for high-school kids so their college applications will look more impressive than they really are; or that give students the answers to the tests beforehand or hire ringers to take the tests for them.

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  104. Lurker says:
    @Yan Shen
    As the hysteria of Japan bashing during the late 1980s and early 1990s showed, Asian bashing is as American as baseball or apple pie and certainly doesn't require Asians to actually live anywhere near white Americans.

    Please list the white nations where whites are actually allowed to remain a majority and a majority in their major institutions.

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  105. ic1000 says:
    @jbwilson24
    Good lord... so if you are white, either: (1) do not have children, and help your ethnic group to die out; (2) have mongrel children, or; (3) if you do have children, make sure they aren't successful.

    Wackos like this are the reason that my wife and I intend to home school our children. In fact, we are thinking of moving to Hong Kong or Singapore, to get away from all the cultural marxism and anti-white hatred.

    At #38, Scarlet Number contributed this one-liner –

    > White parents game the system when choosing parents for their children.

    While clever and amusing, it aptly captures the theme of Asst. Prof. Rhoda’s research [sic] and of Senora Christina Viega’s Atlantic article.

    This sentiment can unite all of us, in our diversity. POC are on board, as are as are the multitude of whites who have incorporated race-hatred into their core self identity. Links in the comments illustrate both. And elite whites are up to the task of reconciling this public stance and a private decision to mate assortatively. “Four legs good, two legs bad” isn’t much of a problem, when you and your allies are the ones doing the defining and implementing.

    For badwhites of Flyover Country, boot on the face is a small price to pay, from a utilitarian perspective. Serves ‘em right, anyway.

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  106. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    When I was in high school the nuns believed that the SAT was a measure of your total education and that you really couldn’t do much to prepare for it. I did not prep and got a pretty good but not exceptional score. Years later when I took the GRE this thinking had changed and I picked up one of the ubiquitous prep books. I improved my score by 130 points, mainly by shoring up my weak area, math, by working the sample problems and doing drills. It makes me wonder how the SAT can serve as a proxy for IQ when one can go from 1300 to 1430 with only modest effort.

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  107. bomag says:
    @black sea
    This is an interesting thought.

    It's often observed that the best aspects of American culture don't travel well, while the worst spread like viruses. What if this is generally true for cultures?

    This probably goes along with the general observation that nature selects for mere survival rather than higher culture. Culture requires more effort, thus it is more prone to extinction in hard times.

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  108. AndrewR says:
    @donut
    Steve and Ron turn to crime :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuMFfRvuMs

    The donut turns to drink :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2XeVs4wqdE

    I’ve probably been approximately that drunk two or three times in my life, but, at those times, more alcohol was the last thing on earth that I desired.

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    Push through the pain Andrew .
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  109. @Trelane

    Allison Roda, an assistant professor of education at Molloy College in Long Island, interviewed more than 50 white, black, and Hispanic parents at an unidentified New York City school to learn about
     
    * Allison Roda is an affirmative action (non-meritocratic) woman of color
    * An assistant professor is a simple lecturer and is the lowest rank at university only marginally above custodian
    * Molloy college on Long Island is located in dubious Rockville Center and is ranked 611th in the US with a median SAT score of 1055 which is barely at the level considered "prepared for college/possibly able to do 101-level college work"
    * A sample size of 50 hand-picked subjects has statistical validity not much better than N=1
    * An "unidentified" (top secret) NYC school is not a random sample

    Otherwise seems ok

    An assistant professor is a simple lecturer and is the lowest rank at university only marginally above custodian

    I was going to say adjunct is lower, but they are lower than custodians.

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  110. @Joe Walker
    It is cheating if you only concentrate on the parts of the course that are most likely to be on the exam and ignore the rest. Which would you rather go to: a doctor who had a good overall knowledge of medicine or one who has a good overall knowledge of the parts of medicine most likely to be on medical exams?

    No, it’s not, it is the incompetence or corruption of the test maker/test giver.

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  111. bomag says:
    @map
    Asians are barely represented in inventing any of the math and science they are supposedly good at. The advent of Asians dominating tech, science and math has led to a slow-down in technological and scientific development since the 1970's.

    Compare the 50 year period between 1920 and 1970 to the (almost) 50 year period between 1970 and the present.

    The earlier period had revolutionary changes in technology.

    The current period has mainly minor evolutionary changes. Minor, because given enough time, anyone would eventually figure out the changes that evolved.

    Asians are barely represented in inventing any of the math and science they are supposedly good at.

    Let’s be fair. At the highest levels of art and science, Asians are plenty innovative. The Japanese team often wins the world puzzle championship.

    There is the low hanging fruit phenomenon, where it gets harder to make the big leaps in discovery.

    We should accurately acknowledge a people’s strengths and accomplishments. This does not mean we should give them our society in the name of meritocracy.

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  112. @education realist
    "If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?"

    Ha, ha, ha. My lord, people are morons.

    First, there are tons of kids who can't learn 6 new words per day. I've taught many kids who are incapable of memorizing the times table. Even more frustrating, some of them are capable of algebra. Others aren't.

    First, there are tons of kids who can’t learn 6 new words per day. I’ve taught many kids who are incapable of memorizing the times table.

    Of course kids can learn 6 words per day. The problem is that teachers don’t want to teach 6 words per day.

    My daughter who just turned 5 a few weeks ago–OK she is a fairly smart kid, but no genius– came to the US in May 2016 speaking only Spanish plus whatever English she had picked up from watching Peppa Pig cartoons in English and by November was speaking English pretty much fluently and had forgotten how to speak Spanish. The point of this is not that my child is smart, but that young children have an innate drive to learn language, so teachers ought to exploit that.

    But memorizing is just a matter of constant repetition until it comes naturally. Teachers today make the mistake of thinking that kids are supposed to UNDERSTAND numbers. They just need to LEARN them and some will understand later, though many will not.

    I speak Spanish fluently now. At the age of 50 I did not speak Spanish at all. I learned most of my basic Spanish by playing CDs while I was driving, sometimes long distances. I would repeat the exercises aloud for long periods. Sometimes I was doing this while my mind was completely elsewhere, however I was still learning, and after about 6 months I knew enough sentences to make people think I spoke Spanish and to have a conversation, make hotel reservations on the phone, and so on.

    Same goes for learning to play the piano. You do not need to understand much of anything, you just have to repeat the exercises over and over, and your fingers will learn the patterns. If you then learn some theory, that will give you useful shortcuts to accelerate the process, but it is not absolutely necessary.

    Same for typing, come to think of it.

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  113. AndrewR says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    OT — “Fellow White People” who hate hate hate actual whites:

    In Slate: Confronting White Womanhood at the Women’s Convention

    Only a small fraction were able to make it into the panel discussion, titled “Confronting White Womanhood," making it the most popular event I’ve seen that didn’t boast a big-name headliner.
     

    After a brief welcome, facilitator, Sophie Ellman-Golan, who heads up social media for the Women’s March team, got right down to business: “I’m going to start things out with Emmett Till.”
     

    “When white women say we’re frightened of scary black men, really bad things happen,” said Ellman-Golan. She encouraged the women in the room to reconsider their perceptions of safety, especially when what makes them feel safe may compromise the safety of others around them. Acknowledging that what she was about to say was provocative, she offered a suggestion: “Don’t call the police. Don’t do it. How dare we choose as the enforcer of safety an institution that has demonstrated how deeply unsafe it is?”
     

    After a primer on "white savior-ism" from artist Heather Marie Scholl, the attendees split into groups of 15 to discuss how they’ve propagated white supremacy and how they might help build an anti-racist future.
     
    And from the Daily Mail:

    Writing in her popular blog Raising Race Conscious Children, parent blogger activist Sachi Feris urged parents not to dress their children up as characters from backgrounds different to their own as it is 'cultural appropriation.'

     

    In her blog post, Feris also writes about Disney’s Frozen character:

    There is one thing I don’t like about the character of Elsa. I feel like because Elsa is a White princess, and we see so many White princesses, her character sends the message that you have to be a certain way to be “beautiful” or to be a “princess”…that you have to have White skin, long, blonde hair, and blue eyes. And I don’t like that message.

     

    Your white daughter shouldn’t dress up as Moana, because that’s racist cultural appropriation, and no one should dress as Elsa, because Feris hates pretty shiksas.

    Her bio:

    My name is Sachi Feris and I am a White, Jewish woman of Russian, Polish, Lebanese, Syrian, and Cuban descent. I am a mother to my daughter, born in 2012, and my son, born in 2015. My husband is from Argentina, so we speak Spanish as a family (I am not a native speaker).

    I have a B.A. from Bates College, an M.A. in Sociology and Education from Teachers College, Columbia University, and an M.P.A. in Public Policy from Baruch College’s School of Public Affairs. As an educator, I have been dedicated to social justice education and bringing issues of race and equity to our youngest children since 2000. I am the founder of Border Crossers, a nonprofit dedicated to racial equity. Currently, I teach Spanish part-time at an elementary school in Brooklyn.
     

    Honestly, I hope all Progressive™ females take that Fellow White female’s advice to not trust their guts or ever call the police on men of blackmess.

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  114. bomag says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    OT — “Fellow White People” who hate hate hate actual whites:

    In Slate: Confronting White Womanhood at the Women’s Convention

    Only a small fraction were able to make it into the panel discussion, titled “Confronting White Womanhood," making it the most popular event I’ve seen that didn’t boast a big-name headliner.
     

    After a brief welcome, facilitator, Sophie Ellman-Golan, who heads up social media for the Women’s March team, got right down to business: “I’m going to start things out with Emmett Till.”
     

    “When white women say we’re frightened of scary black men, really bad things happen,” said Ellman-Golan. She encouraged the women in the room to reconsider their perceptions of safety, especially when what makes them feel safe may compromise the safety of others around them. Acknowledging that what she was about to say was provocative, she offered a suggestion: “Don’t call the police. Don’t do it. How dare we choose as the enforcer of safety an institution that has demonstrated how deeply unsafe it is?”
     

    After a primer on "white savior-ism" from artist Heather Marie Scholl, the attendees split into groups of 15 to discuss how they’ve propagated white supremacy and how they might help build an anti-racist future.
     
    And from the Daily Mail:

    Writing in her popular blog Raising Race Conscious Children, parent blogger activist Sachi Feris urged parents not to dress their children up as characters from backgrounds different to their own as it is 'cultural appropriation.'

     

    In her blog post, Feris also writes about Disney’s Frozen character:

    There is one thing I don’t like about the character of Elsa. I feel like because Elsa is a White princess, and we see so many White princesses, her character sends the message that you have to be a certain way to be “beautiful” or to be a “princess”…that you have to have White skin, long, blonde hair, and blue eyes. And I don’t like that message.

     

    Your white daughter shouldn’t dress up as Moana, because that’s racist cultural appropriation, and no one should dress as Elsa, because Feris hates pretty shiksas.

    Her bio:

    My name is Sachi Feris and I am a White, Jewish woman of Russian, Polish, Lebanese, Syrian, and Cuban descent. I am a mother to my daughter, born in 2012, and my son, born in 2015. My husband is from Argentina, so we speak Spanish as a family (I am not a native speaker).

    I have a B.A. from Bates College, an M.A. in Sociology and Education from Teachers College, Columbia University, and an M.P.A. in Public Policy from Baruch College’s School of Public Affairs. As an educator, I have been dedicated to social justice education and bringing issues of race and equity to our youngest children since 2000. I am the founder of Border Crossers, a nonprofit dedicated to racial equity. Currently, I teach Spanish part-time at an elementary school in Brooklyn.
     

    Don’t call the police. Don’t do it.

    Wow. There’s some good advice.

    Why do humans have this desire to jump off a cliff into oblivion? Or should I ask, why this desire to push other people off cliffs into oblivion?

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  115. AndrewR says:
    @Yan Shen
    As the hysteria of Japan bashing during the late 1980s and early 1990s showed, Asian bashing is as American as baseball or apple pie and certainly doesn't require Asians to actually live anywhere near white Americans.

    It’s heartwarming to see how your hatred of Caucasian-Americans has allowed you to show such affection towards the people who brutally raped and murdered millions of your people in their mission to dominate the Pacific.

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  116. AndrewR says:
    @black sea
    This is an interesting thought.

    It's often observed that the best aspects of American culture don't travel well, while the worst spread like viruses. What if this is generally true for cultures?

    It’s hard to say. I think even the most anti-American Japanese nationalists would admit that Japan is a much more pleasant place to live than it would have been without the American occupation. Well, maybe not all of them would, but I think most reasonable people would agree. Modern Japan is largely a synthesis of the best aspects of Japanese culture and the best aspects of American culture.

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  117. Luke Lea says:
    @niteranger
    I taught at a university (biology). Asians students are very good at certain types of tests especially standardized (multiple choice). They have sharp focus compared to other students. However, in terms of "creative reasoning" they are terrible. If you change the questions just a little bit it often throws them off. Essays are another matter entirely since they are no better and often worse than other students. As many others have noticed they do not participate in class discussions or share knowledge readily. (side note: American students are usually taught by the B.F. Skinner method which leads to linear learning in my estimation. This is often called The Behavioral Objective Method which has destroyed education in my view. Once again change the question just a little bit and students have problems even the supposed gifted ones. I believe this is because they haven't really mastered the material and is the major problem with the Skinner method and his devotees. Asians do worse in my opinion which makes me believe they have great memories but can't grasp heavy context sometimes. I'm not saying all of them are this way but I think this is "telling" of how many of them learn).

    There is a great debate by many professors (in their offices not in the public domain) whether Asians are that smart or just very good at memory and test taking. They are extremely good in physics and in mathematical models. Is this ability a cultural thing? I don't know and the stuff I've read seems to be all over the map.

    Asian are noted for fake studies and data manipulation in many scientific fields. There are number of websites that list these retracted studies and there are a lot of Asian scientists. I don't know if this is because they have a massive number of scientists or because they try to cheat more. It would be interesting if someone calculated what the percentage for scientific retractions from different countries is.

    Asian are noted for fake studies and data manipulation in many scientific fields. There are number of websites that list these retracted studies and there are a lot of Asian scientists. I don’t know if this is because they have a massive number of scientists or because they try to cheat more.

    I am curious how these traits are going to play out in the Chinese economy in the years ahead. Already with a government controlled banking system, no independent judiciary, and no freedom of speech or of the press, add in the culture of mendacity, and you have got to think they are really flying blind. For instance, China builds a complete national freeway system as extensive as ours in less than ten years, over much of which there is very little traffic (see Peter Hetzler’s Country Driving), and you have to wonder about the quality of the concrete that went into it and the future of maintenance. Marxist-Leninism is still the official ideology (plus Xi-ism now I suppose) but the Chinese Communist Party is still subject to the most basic laws of economics: squander your people’s life-savings on gigantic boondoggle projects for the sake of full-employment, and there will be the devil to pay.

    Add in tens of millions of excess unmarried males and thank God you are not one of China’s near neighbors. One if by land, two if by sea.

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  118. @map
    Asians are barely represented in inventing any of the math and science they are supposedly good at. The advent of Asians dominating tech, science and math has led to a slow-down in technological and scientific development since the 1970's.

    Compare the 50 year period between 1920 and 1970 to the (almost) 50 year period between 1970 and the present.

    The earlier period had revolutionary changes in technology.

    The current period has mainly minor evolutionary changes. Minor, because given enough time, anyone would eventually figure out the changes that evolved.

    Terence Tao is one of the highest-regarded mathematicians of the 21st century so far.

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  119. The blog entry included the questions: Anybody know why there was a sudden drop in test scores in 2017? Here is a related question: why did the aggregate scores of all categories go down, except for Black and Hispanic, which went up? That is interesting.

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  120. Thea says:
    @eah
    I guess such parents aren't.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNQRv0tXUAA6Okd.jpg

    I think we all realized the was coming. It’s pretty clear the psycho-left’s only objective now is genicidal, anti-white hatred.

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  121. @Anon
    The sudden drop looks like 2016 to me. The SAT was redesigned in March, 2016.

    My son was in the first group to take the new SAT. However, I noticed the colleges posted higher required scores for students taking the new version, so I assumed it was easier. Probably just more high schools forcing more students to take the test. I didn’t check, but if many more students took the test, then that could be a cause.

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  122. @Yan Shen
    Lebron James is well known for his voracious work ethic and intense physical prepping regimes. Just think how his uh gaming of the system cheated others out of a lucrative career in the NBA!

    LOL!

    My son has lots of Asian friends because there are so many Asians here. It is true that they do focus on doing well in school and on tests. My son spent lots of time at baseball practice and didn’t do test prep and only a few AP classes. Yet he does fine with his Asian friends who were top students at very competitive high schools. Mostly Asians in the USA do well because you can’t walk here from Asia. All his smart Asian friends have smart Asian parents that have doctorates in STEM, so the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree. As for poor Asians doing as well, I think there is quite a bit less of that going on. They aren’t acing exams like the kids of scientists. The ones I know whose parents ran restaurants and stuff are doing fine but are not geniuses. Some are pretty smart and others were just good students. Most are going for good jobs, not Ph.D’s. As for south and east Asians going all out on tests, that could be because they aren’t that far removed from their very crowded countries and so they really want pleasant lives here.

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  123. donut says:
    @AndrewR
    I've probably been approximately that drunk two or three times in my life, but, at those times, more alcohol was the last thing on earth that I desired.

    Push through the pain Andrew .

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  124. donut says:
    @I, commenter
    In the 90s i remember reading about a guy who held up a bank around noon on a friday- apparently it was a bank favored by cops to cash checks and it was payday. When he pulled out his gun he was met with over a dozen.

    When in my innocence , a relative term , I first moved to B-More in 1993 there was a news item in the paper . A Blackfella went into a bank downtown to rob it . His hold up note was written on the deposit slip from a different bank . The teller actually had the nerve to tell him that he was in the wrong bank and he would need to go down the street to the right bank . He retrieved his note and left . She called 911 and the Napoleon of crime was met at the next bank by the PoPo . I’m not sure what the charge could have been . Stupidity ?
    He gets the Bronze . The Silver goes to B-More native who was discharged from the Army in Texas . Broke probably and decided with another one of Obama’s sons to rob a convenience store , that being where the money is , what did Willie Sutton know ?
    Sutton’s law
    Main article: Sutton’s law

    In a famous apocryphal story, Sutton was asked by reporter Mitch Ohnstad why he robbed banks. According to Ohnstad, he replied, “Because that’s where the money is.” The quote evolved into Sutton’s law, which is often invoked to medical students as a metaphor for focusing a workup on the most likely diagnosis, rather than wasting time and money investigating every conceivable possibility.

    In his autobiography, Sutton denied originating the pithy rejoinder:

    The irony of using a bank robber’s maxim as an instrument for teaching medicine is compounded, I will now confess, by the fact that I never said it. The credit belongs to some enterprising reporter who apparently felt a need to fill out his copy. I can’t even remember where I first read it. It just seemed to appear one day, and then it was everywhere.

    If anybody had asked me, I’d have probably said it. That’s what almost anybody would say … it couldn’t be more obvious.

    Or could it?

    Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later I’d be out looking for the next job. But to me the money was the chips, that’s all.[1]

    The Redlands Daily Facts published the earliest documented example of Sutton’s law on March 15, 1952 in Redlands, California.[9]

    A corollary, the “Willie Sutton rule,” used in management accounting, stipulates that activity-based costing (in which activities are prioritized by necessity, and budgeted accordingly) should be applied where the highest costs occur, because that is where the biggest savings can be found.[10]

    Anyway in the course of this robbery they murdered the clerk . The U.S. Army trained these two BTW , “Be all that you can be” . Thank you for your service .
    He returns to his home town W/O a plan . The BPD has an add in the News Paper asking for recruits . He goes to apply . On the application there is a question about any criminal Hx or acts . Are you sitting down ? The guy confesses to the armed robbery and murder in Tx. . And the Democrats want to let felons vote .

    The Gold Medal up for grabs .

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  125. eah says:
    @Anonymous
    Don't forget her bio.

    Sociologist. Expert on race + technology. Author/editor of 5 books. Currently writing: Tweetstorm (book), personal essays + memoir. She/her. #Resist
    jessiedaniels.net
     
    She works full-time at this.

    She’s also Jewish — I showed this in a later, now lost comment.

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  126. @Anonymous
    Exactly. I love Steve, but every time I begin to think this is a site for realtalk, someone comes up and says all East Asians get ahead by test prep, or cheating.

    And even the ones who admit East Asians have higher iq will follow up with some blather about them being less creative.

    It takes confidence to be creative. Asians in America are raised diffident and they get more diffident because they're tiny and weak and white people steal their girls. Asians in Asia, like the Japanese, are plenty creative.

    Some whites seem to have the erroneous conception that just because white countries are currently dominant, that must mean white people are genetically superior. That's hogwash.

    Israel is much poorer than America and yet ashkenazi Jews are genetically far superior to the average American. Hong Kong is far richer than China but genetically there is little difference between the two. Same for North and south Korea. Or Dubai versus Bahrain.

    I agree. For all the talk about race realism, many (but not all) of Steve’s readers do not like the fact that they’re not at the top of heap, at least measured by IQ tests.

    I’m plain European white and I’m not bothered.

    The IQ difference with Asians is not that much. Ashkenazi Jews have a larger edge, but there aren’t very many of them in the world as a whole.

    Clearly white Europeans were intelligent enough to accomplish a great deal.

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  127. @LKM
    OT: Just in case you were wondering what The Current Year is, we have this story from Canada:

    Link

    In short, queer latinx 'artist' Lido Pimienta demanded during a show in Halifax that whites move to the back of the venue to make room at the front for "brown girls". When some whites refused, she threw a bit of a hissy fit. But don't worry, Ms. Pimienta, festival organizers won't let racism go unchallenged:

    A statement on behalf of the festival's board of directors addresses the singer directly and promises to make changes to improve "anti-oppression and anti-racism training" over the next year.

    "We are sorry that one of our volunteers interrupted your art, your show, and your audience by being aggressive and racist," reads a Facebook post signed by vice-chairman Georgie Dudka.
     

    Now that story really bothers me. Not because of race realism but because it should not be acceptable to mistreat people just because they’re white. Or any other race/ethnicity.

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  128. @education realist
    "If they just taught the kids 6 new words per day, taught them to recite the times tables, and left the rest to the parents, the education delivered would be substantially improved. How hard could that be?"

    Ha, ha, ha. My lord, people are morons.

    First, there are tons of kids who can't learn 6 new words per day. I've taught many kids who are incapable of memorizing the times table. Even more frustrating, some of them are capable of algebra. Others aren't.

    Incapable of learning times tables but capable of algebra?

    In my day (started Grade 1 in 1957) copious amounts of time were spent not just memorizing times tables but also doing plenty of time multiplying three digit numbers together and learning long division. It took several grades to do all this.

    You couldn’t make it through all that without the times tables being drilled into your head.

    I’m one who is not particularly skilled at rote learning (but had no problem with algebra). Nonetheless the education I describe was extensive enough so that eventually knew the times tables well (and still do).

    I never met anyone who was good with algebra but didn’t know the times tables.

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