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At Least One Confederate Has Gotten a Statue Erected in His Honor in the Obama Age: Senator David Levy Yulee
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From Fernandina Observer:

David Levy Yulee: A Man, A Moment in Time, A Monument

Submitted by Ron Kurtz
Former Director Amelia Island Museum
June 12, 2014 1:00 a.m.

There is a new presence at the foot of Centre Street, in front of our Historic Depot. Fernandina is the site of the first public statue honoring David Levy Yulee. He remains a central player in Florida’s Nineteenth Century history.

… This is not David Levy Yulee’s first “first.” He played a significant role in our state’s history. Like most of us, his life displayed contradictions, but the end result is that he served us well, first by representing the territory of Florida in Washington D.C. and later as a two-term US Senator, the first Jew to hold that position. …

David is considered to be the Father of Florida Statehood. …

… Having fought valiantly and successfully for statehood, David was among the first to secede. A man of his region, he was a Jacksonian Democrat who strongly supported the concept of States’ Rights, territorial expansion, rugged individualism and a small central government. …

At the end of the War, David was held in Ft. Pulaski due to a letter he sent to Joseph Finegan. It was discovered when the Federal troops took control of Amelia Island. In it, David encouraged seizing Federal military property and turning it over to the Confederacy. This was considered a treasonable offense, as it was sent before secession while he was still serving as a U.S. Senator. Yulee was granted amnesty in May 1866 through the intervention of General Ulysses S. Grant, some 13 months after the conclusion of the war.

Yulee’s prosperity, like that of so many in the early years of our Country’s history, was enabled through the labor of slaves. Thankfully, after the War, this would no longer be the case. Yulee redirected his considerable energy and vision on the future. Pragmatically, in a letter to a friend, he stated, “It is bootless to look back.” His desire for political power had been channeled into rebuilding the future of his railroad and Florida’s economy. …

David Levy Yulee is the Father of Florida Statehood and the first Jew to serve as a U.S. Senator, a visionary who wrested a railroad from the wilderness that was early Florida.

This new statue of the politician known as “Florida Fire Eater” for his pro-slavery speeches was unveiled on June 12, 2014.

Unlike his cousin Judah P. Benjamin, the second Jewish Senator, Levy Yulee didn’t hold important posts under the Confederacy. And unlike Benjamin who fled to England in 1865 to escape punishment, after the war Levy Yulee did his time, and then got back to work building up Florida’s railroads. He was so successful at this that President Grant came to stay at Yulee Levy’s house. This exercise in good will was seen as a symbol of reconciliation between the North and the South.

 
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  1. I predict people will steal the bag, unless it has been cleverly designed not to be stolen.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    And how would you design it, to make it so worthless that no one would deign to steal it?
    , @El Dato
    Maybe there is a (((cat))) in it?
  2. Huh.

    Stephen Foster and Robert E. Lee become non-persons, blacks at Columbia call for the removal of the Hamilton and Jefferson statues… but (((David Levy Yulee))), slavery advocate and secessionist, gets a statue.

    What’s next? A statue of (((Judah P. Benjamin)))? Right next to an Obama statue, maybe?

    My, this intersectionality thing gets confusing, doesn’t it?

    • LOL: AndrewR
  3. Some people are more equal than others.
    You people got a problem with that?

    Nice little web forum you have here.
    Be a shame if something happened to it..

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Too funny.
  4. In Deep South, extremely rural Nassau County, population 81,000, area 726 mi^2, 73% Trump. Perhaps more revealing of the sort of area it is, is this string of results: 66% JFK ’60 … 53% Goldwater ’64 … 56% Wallace ’68 … 79% Nixon ’72 … 65% Carter ’76 … 51% Reagan ’80.

    Compare Rockingham County, NH, itself fairly rural and conservative at population 303,000, area 795 mi^2, 50% Trump.

    • Replies: @songbird
    A lot of people move to NH from out of state. Rockingham County is right over the border from MA. A lot of people commute from there.
    , @Brutusale
    Rockingham County is rural?! It's most visible locations are the beaches of Rye and the Hamptons, as well as the Boston-commuting yuppies of Derry and Londonderry and the chicos of Salem.
  5. Judah P. Benjamin – Does anyone else find it weird that the most prominent Jewish Confederate was named for the two tribes of Israel that lived in the Southern Kingdom after the Israeli North-South split?

    If only the highest-ranking Jewish Union guy had a name like Ephraim Manasseh Asher-Gad or something like that.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Who was the highest ranking Jewish Union guy anyway?
  6. istevefan says:

    A man of his region, he was a Jacksonian Democrat who strongly supported the concept of States’ Rights, territorial expansion, rugged individualism and a small central government. …

    That’s a good description of what I thought most rebels believed. But try arguing that today. It won’t fly. Or it least it won’t fly for guys not named Levy Yuley.

  7. @Glaivester
    Judah P. Benjamin - Does anyone else find it weird that the most prominent Jewish Confederate was named for the two tribes of Israel that lived in the Southern Kingdom after the Israeli North-South split?

    If only the highest-ranking Jewish Union guy had a name like Ephraim Manasseh Asher-Gad or something like that.

    Who was the highest ranking Jewish Union guy anyway?

    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Samuel Gompers!
    , @Samuel Skinner
    Major General Frederick Knefler

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/herb/geduld1.asp


    He was commander of the 79th Indiana regiment. Knefler was promoted to brigadier general for his performance at the Battle of Chickamauga and then to major general during his service with Sherman on his march through Georgia.

     

    , @snorlax
  8. @Steve Sailer
    Who was the highest ranking Jewish Union guy anyway?

    Samuel Gompers!

    • LOL: snorlax
  9. @Steve Sailer
    Who was the highest ranking Jewish Union guy anyway?

    Major General Frederick Knefler

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/herb/geduld1.asp

    He was commander of the 79th Indiana regiment. Knefler was promoted to brigadier general for his performance at the Battle of Chickamauga and then to major general during his service with Sherman on his march through Georgia.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    But no Union Jewish senators or cabinet secretaries?
  10. @Samuel Skinner
    Major General Frederick Knefler

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/herb/geduld1.asp


    He was commander of the 79th Indiana regiment. Knefler was promoted to brigadier general for his performance at the Battle of Chickamauga and then to major general during his service with Sherman on his march through Georgia.

     

    But no Union Jewish senators or cabinet secretaries?

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    But no Union Jewish senators or cabinet secretaries?

    First Jewish cabinet secretary was Oscar Straus (Commerce and Labor) in 1906. First Jewish senator from a "Northern" state was apparently Joseph Simon (Oregon, 1908). Both Straus and Simon were born in Germany.
  11. 15k 1840
    50k 1848
    150k 1860

    Almost 2/3s of Jews hadn’t been in the country long enough to qualify as a Senator (9 years as a citizen). Lincoln’s cabinet secretaries were political rivals and other members of the party; again well established figures.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Weren't David Levy Yulee and Judah P. Benjamin established figures themselves? Looks like, as chance would have it, both established Jewish political figures were on the side of slavery.

    I wouldn't mind it if they were fiercely criticized for that. Or if no one was fiercely criticized for that, and we elt historical bygones be bygones. Instead, we get Driving Miss Daisy and similar implications of how Jews were also victims. In other words, it is constantly implied that all whites are guilty of slavery (colonialism, holocaust, whatever), but Jews are exempt, even when they were disproportionate among the perpetrators. It's not totally unlike how guilt for communism works.
  12. David Levy Yulee has Levy county in Florida named after him. Yulee, Florida is named after him.

  13. @Steve Sailer
    Who was the highest ranking Jewish Union guy anyway?
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    So, Belmont, the representative of Rothschild interests, settled in New York and supported the Union when push came to shove. But he'd previously backed James Buchanan and was involved in the plan to conquer Cuba as a slave state, so his record was worse than average for a northerner.
  14. @Samuel Skinner
    15k 1840
    50k 1848
    150k 1860

    Almost 2/3s of Jews hadn't been in the country long enough to qualify as a Senator (9 years as a citizen). Lincoln's cabinet secretaries were political rivals and other members of the party; again well established figures.

    Weren’t David Levy Yulee and Judah P. Benjamin established figures themselves? Looks like, as chance would have it, both established Jewish political figures were on the side of slavery.

    I wouldn’t mind it if they were fiercely criticized for that. Or if no one was fiercely criticized for that, and we elt historical bygones be bygones. Instead, we get Driving Miss Daisy and similar implications of how Jews were also victims. In other words, it is constantly implied that all whites are guilty of slavery (colonialism, holocaust, whatever), but Jews are exempt, even when they were disproportionate among the perpetrators. It’s not totally unlike how guilt for communism works.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There's no evidence that 19th Century American Jews were more anti-slavery than the 19th Century American average.
  15. @songbird
    I predict people will steal the bag, unless it has been cleverly designed not to be stolen.

    And how would you design it, to make it so worthless that no one would deign to steal it?

    • Replies: @Neuday
    This is Florida; there is nothing so worthless that it won't be stolen, if stealing it is possible.
    , @songbird
    Well, I guess the starting point would be comparing it to George Washington's sword (stolen all the time) in the Public Gardens in Boston. Also, the Robert Shaw memorial on the Common, which has the same problem.

    The bag is probably much easier to secure, since it has a lower profile. I'd suggest doing something like connecting it to five pieces of rebar, stuck deep into the ground. One difficulty would be attempts to steal it would probably damage it. Ideally, I think you would want something made out of steel with a bronze patina, but I don't know how possible it is to do something like that.
  16. There is a Yulee Hall at the University of Florida and the remains of his sugar plantation can be found in a state park near Crystal River.

    A great man but no Sam Houston.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    There is a Yulee Hall at the University of Florida and the remains of his sugar plantation can be found in a state park near Crystal River.
     
    You would not want to be a slave on a sugar plantation.....
  17. @reiner Tor
    Weren't David Levy Yulee and Judah P. Benjamin established figures themselves? Looks like, as chance would have it, both established Jewish political figures were on the side of slavery.

    I wouldn't mind it if they were fiercely criticized for that. Or if no one was fiercely criticized for that, and we elt historical bygones be bygones. Instead, we get Driving Miss Daisy and similar implications of how Jews were also victims. In other words, it is constantly implied that all whites are guilty of slavery (colonialism, holocaust, whatever), but Jews are exempt, even when they were disproportionate among the perpetrators. It's not totally unlike how guilt for communism works.

    There’s no evidence that 19th Century American Jews were more anti-slavery than the 19th Century American average.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    For many American Jews today, particularly those descended from immigrants coming through Northeast corridors in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the idea that Confederate Jews fought on the side of slavery offends their entire worldview, rooted so deeply in social justice. Even the idea of there being so many Jews in the American South, decades before Ellis Island opened its gates, is a strange idea.
     

    But just as Robert E. Lee, an Army officer for 32 years, sided with his home state of Virginia against the federal government, many Jews found a homeland in Dixie over the centuries and decided they could not take up arms against it. To them, after all they’d suffered and fled throughout the ages, the South was their new motherland, the land of milk and honey (and cotton), and it was worth fighting for. “This land has been good to all of us,” one Jewish-German Southerner wrote. “I shall fight to my last breath.”
     

    Hailing first from Spain and Portugal as early as 1695, then later from England, Germany and the Caribbean islands, and even later from Poland, Hungary and Russia, one-fifth of all United States Jews settled in the South before the 20th century. In 1800, Charleston, S.C. — whose 1790 state constitution guaranteed freedom of religion — was home to the largest Jewish community in America; by 1861, a third of all Jews in the South resided in Louisiana.

    These Jews arrived fleeing tyrannical governments and centuries of expulsion, massacres and all manner of restrictions on personal liberty. Coming to America and finding Dixie — where they were respected as citizens and allowed to vote, own property and live as they chose — was a blessing. They set up as peddlers and shop owners, artisans and innkeepers, shoemakers and tailors, salesmen and farmers. Some became businessmen and bankers, lawyers and physicians.

     


    Others became politicians, some quite prominent. At the start of the war, Judah P. Benjamin was one of Louisiana’s senators, and the second senator of Jewish descent in American history (after David Yulee of Florida); he became the Confederacy’s attorney general and chief of espionage operations, and later secretary of war and secretary of state. In the waning days of the Confederacy, he argued for freeing the slaves to enlist them to fight for the South. Benjamin’s cousin, Henry M. Hyams, served as Louisiana’s lieutenant governor during the war. After the war Benjamin Franklin Jonas, a former Confederate soldier, became the third Jew in the Senate.

     


    In the South, Jews lived as everyone lived, and many Southern Jews accepted – alongside their co-regionalists – the institution of slavery. “Jews in America are very much a part of the American political landscape of their time; they’re not necessarily different,” says Lance J. Sussman, the senior rabbi at Reform Congregation Keneseth Israel in Elkins Park, Pa., and a visiting professor of American Jewish history at Princeton. “They are often chameleon-like. Southern Jews and many Northern Jews had no issue with slavery.”
     

    That said, Jewish opinions on slavery were not exclusively regional. New York’s Morris Raphall, the leading American rabbi of the period, shocked many Jews and non-Jews by defending slavery on biblical grounds, saying in 1861 that “slavery has existed since earliest times,” that “slaveholding is no sin,” that “slave property is expressly placed under the protection of the Ten Commandments” and that the reason Africans were slaves in America was because that’s what God wanted for them. In contrast, Rabbi David Einhorn of Baltimore — in the slave state of Maryland — argued against every one of Raphall’s biblical claims. (His congregants did not agree, and he was forced to flee to Philadelphia.)
     

    The Passover narrative, he adds, didn’t become an abolitionist-related story until after World War II and the Civil Rights era. “Originally, Passover was theological. It’s about redemption and the power of God. It’s not really about setting human beings free in a universal way. The text says that God frees the Hebrew slaves because God loves the Hebrews. God doesn’t free all slaves for all of humanity or send Moses out to become the William Lloyd Garrison of the ancient free world.”
     

    On Aug. 23, 1861, Rabbi Max Michelbacher of Richmond, Va., who wrote a “Prayer for the Confederacy,” which was distributed to all Jewish Confederate soldiers, asked General Lee to grant a furlough for the Jewish soldiers to attend synagogue for the High Holy Days. Because of the exigencies of war, Lee declined, but his response to Michelbacher eloquently illustrates the way that ecumenical regionalism overshadowed any sense of religious difference between the two men: “I feel assured that neither you or any member of the Jewish congregation would wish to jeopardize a cause you have so much at heart.” In closing, he added: “That your prayers for the success & welfare of our Cause may be granted by the Great Ruler of the universe is my ardent wish.”
     
    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/passover-in-the-confederacy/?_r=0
    , @syonredux

    Diplomat, playwright, and journalist Mordecai M. Noah, the “most important Jew in America” during the 1830s and 1840s, according to his biographer Jonathan D. Sarna, wrote that blacks were “anatomically and mentally inferior to the white” and could find contentment only in servile labor. Noah dreaded the thought of a slave revolt and viciously condemned abolitionists. Emmanuel Hart, the first Jewish congressman from New York in the 1850s, was a leader of the conservative “hunker” Democrats, a faction that opposed any agitation against slavery and worked to uphold the interests of the slaveholding states. Editor Robert Lyon of the Asmonean, a self-described progressive who hired Reform Judaism’s leading proponent, Isaac Mayer Wise, as his literary editor, endorsed James Buchanan in 1856 as a “progressionist,” defended the Fugitive Slave Act, and called abolitionists “the foul Fiend which stalks among us.” Lyon included among the abolitionists both “Frederick Douglass the ******,” and a “heterogeneous stew of fanatics and imposters.” The notion of black suffrage was, he said, “preposterous.”
     

    But Heilprin [an ant-slavery rabbi] represented a minority outlook. Raphall’s [pro-slavery] sermon reflected the interests of a majority of New York Jewry’s interests: New York’s booming economy, the cause of the recent wealth of many of the city’s most prominent Jewish citizens, including many members of B’nai Jeshurun, was tied to the southern trade; a civil war threatened personal catastrophe. Moreover, many Jews were in the garment industry, a trade directly attached to the South. Jews also resented the seemingly ever-present Protestant missionaries bent on converting the Jews. Strong-willed Protestantism and the Republican Party were seen as deeply conjoined. Furthermore, Jews feared that their political liberty, greater in America than any other part of the world, would be threatened if the Constitution, which they identified with the Union, were to fall. Compromise was the better solution, even if it meant giving in to Southern demands. Thus, along with the rest of New York City, Jews in 1860 voted more than two to one against Lincoln and the Republican Party.
     
    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/112312/new-yorks-pro-slavery-rabbi
    , @syonredux

    The Civil War divided Jews as it did all Americans. Southern Jews supported the Confederacy; Northern Jews favored the Union. Prior to the war, Jews as a group never took a public stand on slavery. Although many shared antislavery opinions, they viewed the Christian-oriented abolitionist movement with suspicion.

     

    https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jews-in-the-civil-war/
    , @reiner Tor
    In fact, they seem to have been disproportionately pro-slavery. There’s nothing wrong with it, I just don’t like how gentile whites are expected to self-flagellate over the sins of their ancestors (or the ancestors of other members of their ethnic groups), like slavery or the holocaust, while Jews are never expected to do introspection regarding things members of their ethnic groups did in the past, like slavery or communism. (No, not all Jews were commies, and no, not all commies were Jews. But not all whites were slaveholders, and not all slaveholders were white, either. Same thing about Germans and the holocaust, or Hungarians and the holocaust, etc.)
    , @Gordo
    And they owned quite a lot of slave ships I believe.
  18. @Whitehall
    There is a Yulee Hall at the University of Florida and the remains of his sugar plantation can be found in a state park near Crystal River.

    A great man but no Sam Houston.

    There is a Yulee Hall at the University of Florida and the remains of his sugar plantation can be found in a state park near Crystal River.

    You would not want to be a slave on a sugar plantation…..

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Florida is an interesting case because it's kind of a model of what the south would have been like with no slavery. Florida wasn't well populated until quite late. Miami was founded as a city in 1896. Most of Florida was too far south to be healthy for whites to live in year round until modern technology started to arrive. But, the fact that the southern half of Florida didn't get filled in until late wasn't a catastrophe for the US. Similarly, if the Deep South had been only lightly populated until, say, 1875 due to white people not finding it healthy to farm it, the US would have done okay still.
  19. @snorlax

    So, Belmont, the representative of Rothschild interests, settled in New York and supported the Union when push came to shove. But he’d previously backed James Buchanan and was involved in the plan to conquer Cuba as a slave state, so his record was worse than average for a northerner.

  20. @Steve Sailer
    There's no evidence that 19th Century American Jews were more anti-slavery than the 19th Century American average.

    For many American Jews today, particularly those descended from immigrants coming through Northeast corridors in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the idea that Confederate Jews fought on the side of slavery offends their entire worldview, rooted so deeply in social justice. Even the idea of there being so many Jews in the American South, decades before Ellis Island opened its gates, is a strange idea.

    But just as Robert E. Lee, an Army officer for 32 years, sided with his home state of Virginia against the federal government, many Jews found a homeland in Dixie over the centuries and decided they could not take up arms against it. To them, after all they’d suffered and fled throughout the ages, the South was their new motherland, the land of milk and honey (and cotton), and it was worth fighting for. “This land has been good to all of us,” one Jewish-German Southerner wrote. “I shall fight to my last breath.”

    Hailing first from Spain and Portugal as early as 1695, then later from England, Germany and the Caribbean islands, and even later from Poland, Hungary and Russia, one-fifth of all United States Jews settled in the South before the 20th century. In 1800, Charleston, S.C. — whose 1790 state constitution guaranteed freedom of religion — was home to the largest Jewish community in America; by 1861, a third of all Jews in the South resided in Louisiana.

    These Jews arrived fleeing tyrannical governments and centuries of expulsion, massacres and all manner of restrictions on personal liberty. Coming to America and finding Dixie — where they were respected as citizens and allowed to vote, own property and live as they chose — was a blessing. They set up as peddlers and shop owners, artisans and innkeepers, shoemakers and tailors, salesmen and farmers. Some became businessmen and bankers, lawyers and physicians.

    Others became politicians, some quite prominent. At the start of the war, Judah P. Benjamin was one of Louisiana’s senators, and the second senator of Jewish descent in American history (after David Yulee of Florida); he became the Confederacy’s attorney general and chief of espionage operations, and later secretary of war and secretary of state. In the waning days of the Confederacy, he argued for freeing the slaves to enlist them to fight for the South. Benjamin’s cousin, Henry M. Hyams, served as Louisiana’s lieutenant governor during the war. After the war Benjamin Franklin Jonas, a former Confederate soldier, became the third Jew in the Senate.

    In the South, Jews lived as everyone lived, and many Southern Jews accepted – alongside their co-regionalists – the institution of slavery. “Jews in America are very much a part of the American political landscape of their time; they’re not necessarily different,” says Lance J. Sussman, the senior rabbi at Reform Congregation Keneseth Israel in Elkins Park, Pa., and a visiting professor of American Jewish history at Princeton. “They are often chameleon-like. Southern Jews and many Northern Jews had no issue with slavery.”

    That said, Jewish opinions on slavery were not exclusively regional. New York’s Morris Raphall, the leading American rabbi of the period, shocked many Jews and non-Jews by defending slavery on biblical grounds, saying in 1861 that “slavery has existed since earliest times,” that “slaveholding is no sin,” that “slave property is expressly placed under the protection of the Ten Commandments” and that the reason Africans were slaves in America was because that’s what God wanted for them. In contrast, Rabbi David Einhorn of Baltimore — in the slave state of Maryland — argued against every one of Raphall’s biblical claims. (His congregants did not agree, and he was forced to flee to Philadelphia.)

    The Passover narrative, he adds, didn’t become an abolitionist-related story until after World War II and the Civil Rights era. “Originally, Passover was theological. It’s about redemption and the power of God. It’s not really about setting human beings free in a universal way. The text says that God frees the Hebrew slaves because God loves the Hebrews. God doesn’t free all slaves for all of humanity or send Moses out to become the William Lloyd Garrison of the ancient free world.”

    On Aug. 23, 1861, Rabbi Max Michelbacher of Richmond, Va., who wrote a “Prayer for the Confederacy,” which was distributed to all Jewish Confederate soldiers, asked General Lee to grant a furlough for the Jewish soldiers to attend synagogue for the High Holy Days. Because of the exigencies of war, Lee declined, but his response to Michelbacher eloquently illustrates the way that ecumenical regionalism overshadowed any sense of religious difference between the two men: “I feel assured that neither you or any member of the Jewish congregation would wish to jeopardize a cause you have so much at heart.” In closing, he added: “That your prayers for the success & welfare of our Cause may be granted by the Great Ruler of the universe is my ardent wish.”

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/passover-in-the-confederacy/?_r=0

  21. @Steve Sailer
    There's no evidence that 19th Century American Jews were more anti-slavery than the 19th Century American average.

    Diplomat, playwright, and journalist Mordecai M. Noah, the “most important Jew in America” during the 1830s and 1840s, according to his biographer Jonathan D. Sarna, wrote that blacks were “anatomically and mentally inferior to the white” and could find contentment only in servile labor. Noah dreaded the thought of a slave revolt and viciously condemned abolitionists. Emmanuel Hart, the first Jewish congressman from New York in the 1850s, was a leader of the conservative “hunker” Democrats, a faction that opposed any agitation against slavery and worked to uphold the interests of the slaveholding states. Editor Robert Lyon of the Asmonean, a self-described progressive who hired Reform Judaism’s leading proponent, Isaac Mayer Wise, as his literary editor, endorsed James Buchanan in 1856 as a “progressionist,” defended the Fugitive Slave Act, and called abolitionists “the foul Fiend which stalks among us.” Lyon included among the abolitionists both “Frederick Douglass the ******,” and a “heterogeneous stew of fanatics and imposters.” The notion of black suffrage was, he said, “preposterous.”

    But Heilprin [an ant-slavery rabbi] represented a minority outlook. Raphall’s [pro-slavery] sermon reflected the interests of a majority of New York Jewry’s interests: New York’s booming economy, the cause of the recent wealth of many of the city’s most prominent Jewish citizens, including many members of B’nai Jeshurun, was tied to the southern trade; a civil war threatened personal catastrophe. Moreover, many Jews were in the garment industry, a trade directly attached to the South. Jews also resented the seemingly ever-present Protestant missionaries bent on converting the Jews. Strong-willed Protestantism and the Republican Party were seen as deeply conjoined. Furthermore, Jews feared that their political liberty, greater in America than any other part of the world, would be threatened if the Constitution, which they identified with the Union, were to fall. Compromise was the better solution, even if it meant giving in to Southern demands. Thus, along with the rest of New York City, Jews in 1860 voted more than two to one against Lincoln and the Republican Party.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/112312/new-yorks-pro-slavery-rabbi

  22. @Steve Sailer
    There's no evidence that 19th Century American Jews were more anti-slavery than the 19th Century American average.

    The Civil War divided Jews as it did all Americans. Southern Jews supported the Confederacy; Northern Jews favored the Union. Prior to the war, Jews as a group never took a public stand on slavery. Although many shared antislavery opinions, they viewed the Christian-oriented abolitionist movement with suspicion.

    https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jews-in-the-civil-war/

  23. @Steve Sailer
    There's no evidence that 19th Century American Jews were more anti-slavery than the 19th Century American average.

    In fact, they seem to have been disproportionately pro-slavery. There’s nothing wrong with it, I just don’t like how gentile whites are expected to self-flagellate over the sins of their ancestors (or the ancestors of other members of their ethnic groups), like slavery or the holocaust, while Jews are never expected to do introspection regarding things members of their ethnic groups did in the past, like slavery or communism. (No, not all Jews were commies, and no, not all commies were Jews. But not all whites were slaveholders, and not all slaveholders were white, either. Same thing about Germans and the holocaust, or Hungarians and the holocaust, etc.)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Jewish capitalist role in white South Africa is pretty epic, but practically no Jews ever think about it.
    , @MBlanc46
    You just said it yourself: The Holocaust. It absolves them of everything forever. Even asking the question that you ask is anti-Semitic. Because Holocaust.
  24. @Steve Sailer
    But no Union Jewish senators or cabinet secretaries?

    But no Union Jewish senators or cabinet secretaries?

    First Jewish cabinet secretary was Oscar Straus (Commerce and Labor) in 1906. First Jewish senator from a “Northern” state was apparently Joseph Simon (Oregon, 1908). Both Straus and Simon were born in Germany.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    First Jewish cabinet secretary was Oscar Straus (Commerce and Labor) in 1906. First Jewish senator from a “Northern” state was apparently Joseph Simon (Oregon, 1908).

     

    First Gentile governor of Utah (1917-21) was Simon Bamberger, a German-born Jew.

    Utah's women have voted in more federal elections than any other state's except Wyoming's. Considering that 44 states are older, that's saying something. Like, this is one weird state.

    (It's also shaped like a washing machine. Just what are they laundering there?)

    Moses Alexander, another German-born Jew, was serving as Idaho's governor when Bamberger was elected.

    Beating both of them to the punch was Washington Bartlett, which sounds like something out of a Northwest orchard. He was born in Savannah and was elected California's governor in 1886. Being of Sephardic descent and irreligious no doubt eased the way a bit.

    He was also a Leap Day baby. So he died in office just months before his 16th birthday.
  25. @reiner Tor
    In fact, they seem to have been disproportionately pro-slavery. There’s nothing wrong with it, I just don’t like how gentile whites are expected to self-flagellate over the sins of their ancestors (or the ancestors of other members of their ethnic groups), like slavery or the holocaust, while Jews are never expected to do introspection regarding things members of their ethnic groups did in the past, like slavery or communism. (No, not all Jews were commies, and no, not all commies were Jews. But not all whites were slaveholders, and not all slaveholders were white, either. Same thing about Germans and the holocaust, or Hungarians and the holocaust, etc.)

    The Jewish capitalist role in white South Africa is pretty epic, but practically no Jews ever think about it.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    The Jewish capitalist role in white South Africa is pretty epic, but practically no Jews ever think about it.
     
    Similarly, I'm quite sure that very few Jews think about the role played by Jews in creating the slave-killing sugar industry in Brazil:

    The first Jewish families arrived in Recife in 1635, when Pernambuco was under Dutch rule, had fewer than 10,000 inhabitants and was the richest Brazilian captaincy. Pursued by the Catholic Inquisition in the Iberian Peninsula, they came attracted by the religious freedom that the Dutch began to settle on land taken from Portugal.

    In Recife, the Jews entered the branch of the trade that would soon dominate: during the rule of Count Maurice of Nassau, for example, they controlled 40% of sugar exports sugar from Pernambuco to the Netherlands and Germany.

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pernambuco#Jews_in_Perna

    The history of the Jews in Brazil is a rather long and complex one, as it stretches from the very beginning of the European settlement in the new continent. Jews started settling in Brazil ever since the Inquisition reached Portugal in the 16th century. They arrived in Brazil during the period of Dutch rule, setting up in Recife the first synagogue in the Americas as early as 1636. Most of those Jews were Sephardic Jews who had fled the Inquisition in Spain and Portugal to the religious freedom of the Netherlands. Adam Smith attributed much of the development of Brazil’s sugar industry and cultivation to the arrival of Portuguese Jews who were forced out of Portugal during the inquisition.[3]
     
    Brazil >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Brazil

    When the Inquisition in Portugal took hold in 1497, Jews fled to places throughout the world, including Brazil. They arrived in Brazil primarily as New Christians or Conversos (Jews converted to Christianity), but many secretly practiced Judaism and began a colonization drive to settle on the land. Despite continued persecution by the Brazilian Inquisition, the New Christians successfully established sugar plantations and mills. By 1624, approximately 50,000 Europeans lived in Brazil, with New Christians making up a significant percentage. They were businessmen, importers, exporters, teachers, writers poets, even priests. In that same year, Dutch forces arrived in Brazil, taking over portions of northeast Brazil. Dutch tolerance allowed for Jewish migration and the open practice of religion. In 1636, Jews built the Kahal Zur synagogue in the Dutch capital of Recife.

    In Dutch Brazil, Jews flourished in the sugar industry, tax farming and slave trade. Jews often purchased slaves and resold them at great profit.
     
    Brazil.html >http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Brazil.html

    Recife on Brazil’s northeastern coast is a little-known treasure of Jewish history in the New World – the oldest synagogue in the Americas.

    Sephardic Jews built the two-story Kahal Zur Israel Synagogue before 1641 – most likely in 1636 – when they enjoyed religious freedom under the Dutch, who ruled part of the northeast region from 1630 to 1654 to control sugar production.[....]

     


    Their studies are gradually unveiling the prominent role Jews had in early Brazilian society.

    “It challenges the stereotypical view that Brazilian culture is based on a tripod of Portuguese, [native] Indians and Africans,” said Tania Kaufman, head of the Jewish Historical Archive in Recife, the capital of Pernambuco state.

    “We now know Jews were a fundamental part of Brazil’s cultural melting pot.”
     

    Historical records in Brazil and Amsterdam show Jews helped build the sugar industry, roads, bridges, and a basic sewage system in the northeast. Many also made money by trading slaves.

     


    At its height in 1645, the Jewish community in Recife counted 1,630 members, the same number as in the thriving Jewish community of Amsterdam, according to Dutch historian Franz Leonard Schalkwijk.

    “The economic dominance of the Jews prompted various protests [from Catholics and Protestants],” wrote Schalkwijk in his book “Church and State in Dutch Brazil.”
     
    brazilian-town-recife-considered-oldest-in-the-americas-1.233058 >http://www.haaretz.com/news/synagogue-in-brazilian-town-recife-considered-oldest-in-the-americas-1.233058

    Jews also played a big role in Barbados:

    Jews played an important role here on Barbados, he explained — and perhaps one far greater than is widely acknowledged. When the Jews first arrived in the 1640s, they were experts in sugar production. Back then, the business of Barbados was sugar, and its fermented byproduct, rum. Which in turn lubricates tourism, the business of Barbados today [.....]

     


    Meanwhile, Spain had laid claim to the entire New World, including the Caribbean, which the other world powers contested. Holland, and later England, pragmatically allowed “New Christians” (who had wealth, international trade connections and a hatred of Spain) to settle in the colonies they wrested from the Spanish. In Dutch Brazil, the now openly-practicing Jews entered the sugar trade in a big way, and a few even ventured to British-controlled Barbados, whose climate was also suited to sugar. Many more arrived after the Portuguese recaptured Brazil in 1654 — immediately expelling the Jews.

     


    This, it seems, stretches back to when the Sephardim were running their sugar plantations in Brazil. Barbados’ most elite planters watched what the Jewish planters were successfully doing in Brazil, and borrowed their technology. For instance, James Drax, an elite Barbadian planter who worked more than 700 acres in Barbados, visited the Sephardic colony in Brazil in 1640, and brought back with him two key innovations: a triple-roller sugar mill for crushing the sugar cane, and copper cauldrons for boiling the cane juice to get crystals, writes Ian Williams in his book Rum. (Nation Books, 2005). Williams credits the Jews for transferring that technology to Barbados, which they likely did as investors in sugar plantations they did not own. Watson’s ledgers show both investments in sugar plantations and certainly, handling the trade in sugar after it was harvested.
     
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alison-stein-wellner/jewish-barbados-tracking_b_174758.html
  26. @songbird
    I predict people will steal the bag, unless it has been cleverly designed not to be stolen.

    Maybe there is a (((cat))) in it?

  27. @syonredux

    There is a Yulee Hall at the University of Florida and the remains of his sugar plantation can be found in a state park near Crystal River.
     
    You would not want to be a slave on a sugar plantation.....

    Florida is an interesting case because it’s kind of a model of what the south would have been like with no slavery. Florida wasn’t well populated until quite late. Miami was founded as a city in 1896. Most of Florida was too far south to be healthy for whites to live in year round until modern technology started to arrive. But, the fact that the southern half of Florida didn’t get filled in until late wasn’t a catastrophe for the US. Similarly, if the Deep South had been only lightly populated until, say, 1875 due to white people not finding it healthy to farm it, the US would have done okay still.

  28. I call bullsht yet again: it is common knowledge all southerners, then as now, as inbred galoots with no iota of tolerance, never mind acceptance nor praise, for the Jew, bust as they are perpetually lynching Negroes, oppressing women, shaming atheists, and, yes, causing poverty to centres of law…or…something. Besides, any one in any way affiliated with slavery, from Hammurabi to Iceberg Slim, is universally reviled by all and in no case may a statue of him remain, nevrmind be newly erected. So this story about a statue to a Jew is fake news.

    • Agree: Mishra
  29. No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.

    • Replies: @Anon

    No one has mentioned
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsnQTsMhB84
    , @Gringo
    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.
    You beat me to it. Wikipedia:David Levy Yulee.

    In 1846, Levy officially changed his name to David Levy Yulee by act of the Florida Legislature,[24] adding his father's Sephardic surname.[11] That year he married Nancy Christian Wickliffe, the daughter of Charles A. Wickliffe, the former governor of Kentucky and Postmaster General under President John Tyler. His wife was Christian, and they raised their children in her faith.[1]
     
    This rendition of Wikipedia states that Yulee married a Christian and their children were raised as Christians. I had previously read- IIRC in Wikipedia- that Yulee had also converted to Christianity, but there is no mention of a conversion in the current Wikipedia article. Wiki's source is a Jewish online encyclopedia.

    According to Jew or Not Jew, he converted to Christianity.

    According to Levy Family:Moses Levy and David Levy Yulee, he converted to Christianity.


    Moses Elias Levy (1781 - 1854)
    Moses Elias Levy, was a wealthy and cultivated merchant, and David's mother, Hannah, was born on the Caribbean island of St. Eustatius. David’s parents divorced when he was quite young, and he spent his early years with his mother in St. Thomas.

    Moses had changed his last name of Yulee and took the last name Levy which was his grandfather's last name. Moses would remain Levy for his whole life. His father was a Moslem and his mother a Jew. They would have four children. Moses' religion became a sort of Jewish socialism where: "All our actions must be for the love of God only..."

    By 1800 he had moved from Gibraltar to St. Thomas.

    Moses Levy was drawn to Spanish Florida, where he purchased about 100,000 acres of land, including part of the Arredondo grant, which included present-day Alachua County. His first plantations were Volutia eight miles above Lake George on the St. John's River and opposite this place Hope Hill. He created a utopian colony called New Pilgrimage for persecuted Jews. He studied the Talmud and spoke out for abolition. (He wrote A Plan for the Abolition of Slavery London, 1828.) His plantation was known as Pilgrimage Plantation, a communitarian center near Micanopy. By 1823 he had twenty-one European Jewish refugees. The plantation was mostly destroyed during the Second Seminole War.

    In 1819, he sent David to stay with a guardian, Moses Myers, in Virginia, where the youngster attended Norfolk Academy. Disappointed that his father wished him to go into trade rather than on to college with his schoolmates, David sailed back to St. Thomas to visit his mother, who had remarried.

    He spent time in New York, Philadelphia and Norfolk looking for financial support for his Florida settlement.

    Moses Elias Levy, was, however, opposed to slavery and had a falling out with his son on that issue and his eventual conversion to Christianity.
     

    My inclination is to believe that David Lecy Yulee converted to Christianity.

    In addition, Judah Benjamin and David Yulee were second cousins.

    , @Mr. Anon

    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.
     
    Meaning? He wasn't really jewish?

    Felix Mendelssohn was not raised in Judaism, and was baptized and lived his life as a Christian. Jews still seem quite happy to claim him as one of their own.

  30. @Jack D
    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.

    No one has mentioned

  31. @Mishra
    Some people are more equal than others.
    You people got a problem with that?

    Nice little web forum you have here.
    Be a shame if something happened to it..

    Too funny.

  32. @Neil Templeton
    And how would you design it, to make it so worthless that no one would deign to steal it?

    This is Florida; there is nothing so worthless that it won’t be stolen, if stealing it is possible.

  33. @Neil Templeton
    And how would you design it, to make it so worthless that no one would deign to steal it?

    Well, I guess the starting point would be comparing it to George Washington’s sword (stolen all the time) in the Public Gardens in Boston. Also, the Robert Shaw memorial on the Common, which has the same problem.

    The bag is probably much easier to secure, since it has a lower profile. I’d suggest doing something like connecting it to five pieces of rebar, stuck deep into the ground. One difficulty would be attempts to steal it would probably damage it. Ideally, I think you would want something made out of steel with a bronze patina, but I don’t know how possible it is to do something like that.

  34. @snorlax
    In Deep South, extremely rural Nassau County, population 81,000, area 726 mi^2, 73% Trump. Perhaps more revealing of the sort of area it is, is this string of results: 66% JFK '60 ... 53% Goldwater '64 ... 56% Wallace '68 ... 79% Nixon '72 ... 65% Carter '76 ... 51% Reagan '80.

    Compare Rockingham County, NH, itself fairly rural and conservative at population 303,000, area 795 mi^2, 50% Trump.

    A lot of people move to NH from out of state. Rockingham County is right over the border from MA. A lot of people commute from there.

    • Replies: @snorlax
    I know, I picked it because I live in MA.
  35. @Steve Sailer
    There's no evidence that 19th Century American Jews were more anti-slavery than the 19th Century American average.

    And they owned quite a lot of slave ships I believe.

  36. @Jack D
    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.

    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.
    You beat me to it. Wikipedia:David Levy Yulee.

    In 1846, Levy officially changed his name to David Levy Yulee by act of the Florida Legislature,[24] adding his father’s Sephardic surname.[11] That year he married Nancy Christian Wickliffe, the daughter of Charles A. Wickliffe, the former governor of Kentucky and Postmaster General under President John Tyler. His wife was Christian, and they raised their children in her faith.[1]

    This rendition of Wikipedia states that Yulee married a Christian and their children were raised as Christians. I had previously read- IIRC in Wikipedia- that Yulee had also converted to Christianity, but there is no mention of a conversion in the current Wikipedia article. Wiki’s source is a Jewish online encyclopedia.

    According to Jew or Not Jew, he converted to Christianity.

    According to Levy Family:Moses Levy and David Levy Yulee, he converted to Christianity.

    Moses Elias Levy (1781 – 1854)
    Moses Elias Levy, was a wealthy and cultivated merchant, and David’s mother, Hannah, was born on the Caribbean island of St. Eustatius. David’s parents divorced when he was quite young, and he spent his early years with his mother in St. Thomas.

    Moses had changed his last name of Yulee and took the last name Levy which was his grandfather’s last name. Moses would remain Levy for his whole life. His father was a Moslem and his mother a Jew. They would have four children. Moses’ religion became a sort of Jewish socialism where: “All our actions must be for the love of God only…”

    By 1800 he had moved from Gibraltar to St. Thomas.

    Moses Levy was drawn to Spanish Florida, where he purchased about 100,000 acres of land, including part of the Arredondo grant, which included present-day Alachua County. His first plantations were Volutia eight miles above Lake George on the St. John’s River and opposite this place Hope Hill. He created a utopian colony called New Pilgrimage for persecuted Jews. He studied the Talmud and spoke out for abolition. (He wrote A Plan for the Abolition of Slavery London, 1828.) His plantation was known as Pilgrimage Plantation, a communitarian center near Micanopy. By 1823 he had twenty-one European Jewish refugees. The plantation was mostly destroyed during the Second Seminole War.

    In 1819, he sent David to stay with a guardian, Moses Myers, in Virginia, where the youngster attended Norfolk Academy. Disappointed that his father wished him to go into trade rather than on to college with his schoolmates, David sailed back to St. Thomas to visit his mother, who had remarried.

    He spent time in New York, Philadelphia and Norfolk looking for financial support for his Florida settlement.

    Moses Elias Levy, was, however, opposed to slavery and had a falling out with his son on that issue and his eventual conversion to Christianity.

    My inclination is to believe that David Lecy Yulee converted to Christianity.

    In addition, Judah Benjamin and David Yulee were second cousins.

    • Replies: @BB753
    What kind of Jewish family name is Yulee? It sounds Chinese, lol!
  37. @Steve Sailer
    The Jewish capitalist role in white South Africa is pretty epic, but practically no Jews ever think about it.

    The Jewish capitalist role in white South Africa is pretty epic, but practically no Jews ever think about it.

    Similarly, I’m quite sure that very few Jews think about the role played by Jews in creating the slave-killing sugar industry in Brazil:

    The first Jewish families arrived in Recife in 1635, when Pernambuco was under Dutch rule, had fewer than 10,000 inhabitants and was the richest Brazilian captaincy. Pursued by the Catholic Inquisition in the Iberian Peninsula, they came attracted by the religious freedom that the Dutch began to settle on land taken from Portugal.

    In Recife, the Jews entered the branch of the trade that would soon dominate: during the rule of Count Maurice of Nassau, for example, they controlled 40% of sugar exports sugar from Pernambuco to the Netherlands and Germany.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pernambuco#Jews_in_Perna

    The history of the Jews in Brazil is a rather long and complex one, as it stretches from the very beginning of the European settlement in the new continent. Jews started settling in Brazil ever since the Inquisition reached Portugal in the 16th century. They arrived in Brazil during the period of Dutch rule, setting up in Recife the first synagogue in the Americas as early as 1636. Most of those Jews were Sephardic Jews who had fled the Inquisition in Spain and Portugal to the religious freedom of the Netherlands. Adam Smith attributed much of the development of Brazil’s sugar industry and cultivation to the arrival of Portuguese Jews who were forced out of Portugal during the inquisition.[3]

    Brazil >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Brazil

    When the Inquisition in Portugal took hold in 1497, Jews fled to places throughout the world, including Brazil. They arrived in Brazil primarily as New Christians or Conversos (Jews converted to Christianity), but many secretly practiced Judaism and began a colonization drive to settle on the land. Despite continued persecution by the Brazilian Inquisition, the New Christians successfully established sugar plantations and mills. By 1624, approximately 50,000 Europeans lived in Brazil, with New Christians making up a significant percentage. They were businessmen, importers, exporters, teachers, writers poets, even priests. In that same year, Dutch forces arrived in Brazil, taking over portions of northeast Brazil. Dutch tolerance allowed for Jewish migration and the open practice of religion. In 1636, Jews built the Kahal Zur synagogue in the Dutch capital of Recife.

    In Dutch Brazil, Jews flourished in the sugar industry, tax farming and slave trade. Jews often purchased slaves and resold them at great profit.

    Brazil.html >http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Brazil.html

    Recife on Brazil’s northeastern coast is a little-known treasure of Jewish history in the New World – the oldest synagogue in the Americas.

    Sephardic Jews built the two-story Kahal Zur Israel Synagogue before 1641 – most likely in 1636 – when they enjoyed religious freedom under the Dutch, who ruled part of the northeast region from 1630 to 1654 to control sugar production.[….]

    Their studies are gradually unveiling the prominent role Jews had in early Brazilian society.

    “It challenges the stereotypical view that Brazilian culture is based on a tripod of Portuguese, [native] Indians and Africans,” said Tania Kaufman, head of the Jewish Historical Archive in Recife, the capital of Pernambuco state.

    “We now know Jews were a fundamental part of Brazil’s cultural melting pot.”

    Historical records in Brazil and Amsterdam show Jews helped build the sugar industry, roads, bridges, and a basic sewage system in the northeast. Many also made money by trading slaves.

    At its height in 1645, the Jewish community in Recife counted 1,630 members, the same number as in the thriving Jewish community of Amsterdam, according to Dutch historian Franz Leonard Schalkwijk.

    “The economic dominance of the Jews prompted various protests [from Catholics and Protestants],” wrote Schalkwijk in his book “Church and State in Dutch Brazil.”

    brazilian-town-recife-considered-oldest-in-the-americas-1.233058 >http://www.haaretz.com/news/synagogue-in-brazilian-town-recife-considered-oldest-in-the-americas-1.233058

    Jews also played a big role in Barbados:

    Jews played an important role here on Barbados, he explained — and perhaps one far greater than is widely acknowledged. When the Jews first arrived in the 1640s, they were experts in sugar production. Back then, the business of Barbados was sugar, and its fermented byproduct, rum. Which in turn lubricates tourism, the business of Barbados today […..]

    Meanwhile, Spain had laid claim to the entire New World, including the Caribbean, which the other world powers contested. Holland, and later England, pragmatically allowed “New Christians” (who had wealth, international trade connections and a hatred of Spain) to settle in the colonies they wrested from the Spanish. In Dutch Brazil, the now openly-practicing Jews entered the sugar trade in a big way, and a few even ventured to British-controlled Barbados, whose climate was also suited to sugar. Many more arrived after the Portuguese recaptured Brazil in 1654 — immediately expelling the Jews.

    This, it seems, stretches back to when the Sephardim were running their sugar plantations in Brazil. Barbados’ most elite planters watched what the Jewish planters were successfully doing in Brazil, and borrowed their technology. For instance, James Drax, an elite Barbadian planter who worked more than 700 acres in Barbados, visited the Sephardic colony in Brazil in 1640, and brought back with him two key innovations: a triple-roller sugar mill for crushing the sugar cane, and copper cauldrons for boiling the cane juice to get crystals, writes Ian Williams in his book Rum. (Nation Books, 2005). Williams credits the Jews for transferring that technology to Barbados, which they likely did as investors in sugar plantations they did not own. Watson’s ledgers show both investments in sugar plantations and certainly, handling the trade in sugar after it was harvested.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alison-stein-wellner/jewish-barbados-tracking_b_174758.html

  38. @Jack D
    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.

    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.

    Meaning? He wasn’t really jewish?

    Felix Mendelssohn was not raised in Judaism, and was baptized and lived his life as a Christian. Jews still seem quite happy to claim him as one of their own.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Senator David Levy, the Father of Florida Statehood, the father of Florida railroads, was a Jew.

    Traitor David Yulee, the slavemaster, the Florida Fire Eater, was a Christian.
  39. @snorlax
    In Deep South, extremely rural Nassau County, population 81,000, area 726 mi^2, 73% Trump. Perhaps more revealing of the sort of area it is, is this string of results: 66% JFK '60 ... 53% Goldwater '64 ... 56% Wallace '68 ... 79% Nixon '72 ... 65% Carter '76 ... 51% Reagan '80.

    Compare Rockingham County, NH, itself fairly rural and conservative at population 303,000, area 795 mi^2, 50% Trump.

    Rockingham County is rural?! It’s most visible locations are the beaches of Rye and the Hamptons, as well as the Boston-commuting yuppies of Derry and Londonderry and the chicos of Salem.

    • Replies: @snorlax
    It's rural compared to where I (Boston suburbs) and Steve (LA suburbs) live.
  40. @Gringo
    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.
    You beat me to it. Wikipedia:David Levy Yulee.

    In 1846, Levy officially changed his name to David Levy Yulee by act of the Florida Legislature,[24] adding his father's Sephardic surname.[11] That year he married Nancy Christian Wickliffe, the daughter of Charles A. Wickliffe, the former governor of Kentucky and Postmaster General under President John Tyler. His wife was Christian, and they raised their children in her faith.[1]
     
    This rendition of Wikipedia states that Yulee married a Christian and their children were raised as Christians. I had previously read- IIRC in Wikipedia- that Yulee had also converted to Christianity, but there is no mention of a conversion in the current Wikipedia article. Wiki's source is a Jewish online encyclopedia.

    According to Jew or Not Jew, he converted to Christianity.

    According to Levy Family:Moses Levy and David Levy Yulee, he converted to Christianity.


    Moses Elias Levy (1781 - 1854)
    Moses Elias Levy, was a wealthy and cultivated merchant, and David's mother, Hannah, was born on the Caribbean island of St. Eustatius. David’s parents divorced when he was quite young, and he spent his early years with his mother in St. Thomas.

    Moses had changed his last name of Yulee and took the last name Levy which was his grandfather's last name. Moses would remain Levy for his whole life. His father was a Moslem and his mother a Jew. They would have four children. Moses' religion became a sort of Jewish socialism where: "All our actions must be for the love of God only..."

    By 1800 he had moved from Gibraltar to St. Thomas.

    Moses Levy was drawn to Spanish Florida, where he purchased about 100,000 acres of land, including part of the Arredondo grant, which included present-day Alachua County. His first plantations were Volutia eight miles above Lake George on the St. John's River and opposite this place Hope Hill. He created a utopian colony called New Pilgrimage for persecuted Jews. He studied the Talmud and spoke out for abolition. (He wrote A Plan for the Abolition of Slavery London, 1828.) His plantation was known as Pilgrimage Plantation, a communitarian center near Micanopy. By 1823 he had twenty-one European Jewish refugees. The plantation was mostly destroyed during the Second Seminole War.

    In 1819, he sent David to stay with a guardian, Moses Myers, in Virginia, where the youngster attended Norfolk Academy. Disappointed that his father wished him to go into trade rather than on to college with his schoolmates, David sailed back to St. Thomas to visit his mother, who had remarried.

    He spent time in New York, Philadelphia and Norfolk looking for financial support for his Florida settlement.

    Moses Elias Levy, was, however, opposed to slavery and had a falling out with his son on that issue and his eventual conversion to Christianity.
     

    My inclination is to believe that David Lecy Yulee converted to Christianity.

    In addition, Judah Benjamin and David Yulee were second cousins.

    What kind of Jewish family name is Yulee? It sounds Chinese, lol!

  41. One thing that is irritating to me as a Southerner, is it seems like SJW’s seem to think we all want to bring back slavery or something.

    My heart is stirred by songs like The Bonnie Blue Flag and grey and butternut uniforms, not to mention the Stars and Bars which somehow became our flag out of all the others flown by the South during the war.

    But bring back slavery? I’ll be honest with everyone I, and I think most white Southerners, at least the ones I’ve talked to in my life wish that slave one had never been brought to America. I’m quite sure we think differently than our ancestors did, but you can trust me that this is the overwhelming sentiment today.

    That said, I have always thought the North/South enmity existed outside of slavery. I really think that the roots of it go back to Cromwell and the English Civil War.

    Obviously there are more sections of the country than Dixie and the New England states, but Yankees rub more people the wrong way than just Southerners.

    Really think something else would have been the flashpoint for some kind of conflict, even an armed one, if slavery had never existed in this country.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    My heart is stirred by songs like The Bonnie Blue Flag and grey and butternut uniforms, not to mention the Stars and Bars which somehow became our flag out of all the others flown by the South during the war.
     
    There was an interesting Jewish role in the development of the Confederate Battle Flag:

    William Miles’s disappointment with the Stars and Bars went beyond his strong ideological objections to the Stars and Stripes. He had hoped that the Confederacy would adopt his own design for a national flag-the pattern that later generations mistakenly and ironically insisted on calling the Stars and Bars. The design that Miles championed was apparently inspired by one of the flags used at the South Carolina secession convention in December 1860. That flag featured a blue St. George’s (or upright) cross on a red field. Emblazoned on the cross were fifteen white stars representing the slaveholding states, and on the red field were two symbols of South Carolina: the palmetto tree and the crescent. Charles Moise, a self-described “southerner of Jewish persuasion,” wrote Miles and other members of the South Carolina delegation asking that “the symbol of a particular religion” not be made the symbol of the nation.
     

    In adapting his flag to take these criticisms into account, Miles removed the palmetto tree and crescent and substituted a diagonal cross for the St. George’s cross. Recalling (and sketching) his proposal a few months later, Miles explained that the diagonal cross was preferable because “it avoided the religious objection about the cross (from the Jews & many Protestant sects), because it did not stand out so conspicuously as if the cross had been placed upright thus.” The diagonal cross was, Miles argued, “more Heraldric [sic] than Ecclesiastical, it being the ‘saltire’ of Heraldry, and significant of strength and progress (from the Latin salto, to leap).”
     
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-politically-correct-origin-of-the-confederate-battle-flag/
    , @syonredux

    Really think something else would have been the flashpoint for some kind of conflict, even an armed one, if slavery had never existed in this country.
     
    Dunno. Enthusiasm for secession was quite weak in the areas of the South (e.g., western Virginia, east Tennessee, etc) where slavery was marginal:

    East Tennessee was a stronghold of Unionism; most slaves were house servants—luxuries—rather than the base of plantation operations. The dominant mood strongly opposed secession.[28] Tennesseans representing twenty-six East Tennessee counties met twice in Greeneville and Knoxville and agreed to secede from Tennessee (see East Tennessee Convention of 1861.) They petitioned the state legislature in Nashville, which denied their request to secede and sent Confederate troops under Felix Zollicoffer to occupy East Tennessee and prevent secession. The region thus came under Confederate control from 1861 to 1863. Nevertheless East Tennessee supplied significant numbers of troops to the Federal army. (See also Nickajack). Many East Tennesseans engaged in guerrilla warfare against state authorities by burning bridges, cutting telegraph wires, and spying for the North.[29] East Tennessee became an early base for the Republican Party in the South. Strong support for the Union challenged the Confederate commanders who controlled East Tennessee for most of the war. Generals Felix K. Zollicoffer, Edmund Kirby Smith, and Sam Jones oscillated between harsh measures and conciliatory gestures to gain support, but had little success whether they arrested hundreds of Unionist leaders or allowed men to escape the Confederate draft. Union forces finally captured the region in 1863.[30] General William Sherman's famous March to the Sea saw him personally escorted by the 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment, which consisted entirely of Unionist southerners. Despite its name, the regiment consisted largely of men from Tennessee.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_in_the_American_Civil_War#East_Tennessee
    , @BB753
    One of the most puzzling aspects of American culture is the North /South divide which in fact has nothing to do with slaves and plantations, but goes deeper than that. Even the different British origins of the settlers fails to capture the real difference. My theory is that climate and separation (physical separation, as in distance from the North's cultural centers and population, not just local federal rule) had a lot to do with the deep-seated cultural and political differences.
    IMHO, the USA is a social construct if there ever was one. Clearly, Dixieland is a different country and should have gained independence long before the Civil War broke out.
  42. @songbird
    A lot of people move to NH from out of state. Rockingham County is right over the border from MA. A lot of people commute from there.

    I know, I picked it because I live in MA.

  43. @Brutusale
    Rockingham County is rural?! It's most visible locations are the beaches of Rye and the Hamptons, as well as the Boston-commuting yuppies of Derry and Londonderry and the chicos of Salem.

    It’s rural compared to where I (Boston suburbs) and Steve (LA suburbs) live.

  44. @Sunbeam
    One thing that is irritating to me as a Southerner, is it seems like SJW's seem to think we all want to bring back slavery or something.

    My heart is stirred by songs like The Bonnie Blue Flag and grey and butternut uniforms, not to mention the Stars and Bars which somehow became our flag out of all the others flown by the South during the war.

    But bring back slavery? I'll be honest with everyone I, and I think most white Southerners, at least the ones I've talked to in my life wish that slave one had never been brought to America. I'm quite sure we think differently than our ancestors did, but you can trust me that this is the overwhelming sentiment today.

    That said, I have always thought the North/South enmity existed outside of slavery. I really think that the roots of it go back to Cromwell and the English Civil War.

    Obviously there are more sections of the country than Dixie and the New England states, but Yankees rub more people the wrong way than just Southerners.

    Really think something else would have been the flashpoint for some kind of conflict, even an armed one, if slavery had never existed in this country.

    My heart is stirred by songs like The Bonnie Blue Flag and grey and butternut uniforms, not to mention the Stars and Bars which somehow became our flag out of all the others flown by the South during the war.

    There was an interesting Jewish role in the development of the Confederate Battle Flag:

    William Miles’s disappointment with the Stars and Bars went beyond his strong ideological objections to the Stars and Stripes. He had hoped that the Confederacy would adopt his own design for a national flag-the pattern that later generations mistakenly and ironically insisted on calling the Stars and Bars. The design that Miles championed was apparently inspired by one of the flags used at the South Carolina secession convention in December 1860. That flag featured a blue St. George’s (or upright) cross on a red field. Emblazoned on the cross were fifteen white stars representing the slaveholding states, and on the red field were two symbols of South Carolina: the palmetto tree and the crescent. Charles Moise, a self-described “southerner of Jewish persuasion,” wrote Miles and other members of the South Carolina delegation asking that “the symbol of a particular religion” not be made the symbol of the nation.

    In adapting his flag to take these criticisms into account, Miles removed the palmetto tree and crescent and substituted a diagonal cross for the St. George’s cross. Recalling (and sketching) his proposal a few months later, Miles explained that the diagonal cross was preferable because “it avoided the religious objection about the cross (from the Jews & many Protestant sects), because it did not stand out so conspicuously as if the cross had been placed upright thus.” The diagonal cross was, Miles argued, “more Heraldric [sic] than Ecclesiastical, it being the ‘saltire’ of Heraldry, and significant of strength and progress (from the Latin salto, to leap).”

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-politically-correct-origin-of-the-confederate-battle-flag/

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    Hmmm reread this.

    I know it may be esoteric and of no interest to most, but what am I supposed to get from this?

    Jewish Confederate would rather not fight under a flag with the Christian cross?

    Doesn't bug me, I'm more a Cross of St. Andrews guy anyway, as opposed to the Cross of St. George.

    I mean would you rather be a highlander with a kilt, a claymore, whiskey, and bagpipes? Or wear a powdered wig?

    No contest in my book.

    , @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EcHIl1dOn0
  45. @Sunbeam
    One thing that is irritating to me as a Southerner, is it seems like SJW's seem to think we all want to bring back slavery or something.

    My heart is stirred by songs like The Bonnie Blue Flag and grey and butternut uniforms, not to mention the Stars and Bars which somehow became our flag out of all the others flown by the South during the war.

    But bring back slavery? I'll be honest with everyone I, and I think most white Southerners, at least the ones I've talked to in my life wish that slave one had never been brought to America. I'm quite sure we think differently than our ancestors did, but you can trust me that this is the overwhelming sentiment today.

    That said, I have always thought the North/South enmity existed outside of slavery. I really think that the roots of it go back to Cromwell and the English Civil War.

    Obviously there are more sections of the country than Dixie and the New England states, but Yankees rub more people the wrong way than just Southerners.

    Really think something else would have been the flashpoint for some kind of conflict, even an armed one, if slavery had never existed in this country.

    Really think something else would have been the flashpoint for some kind of conflict, even an armed one, if slavery had never existed in this country.

    Dunno. Enthusiasm for secession was quite weak in the areas of the South (e.g., western Virginia, east Tennessee, etc) where slavery was marginal:

    East Tennessee was a stronghold of Unionism; most slaves were house servants—luxuries—rather than the base of plantation operations. The dominant mood strongly opposed secession.[28] Tennesseans representing twenty-six East Tennessee counties met twice in Greeneville and Knoxville and agreed to secede from Tennessee (see East Tennessee Convention of 1861.) They petitioned the state legislature in Nashville, which denied their request to secede and sent Confederate troops under Felix Zollicoffer to occupy East Tennessee and prevent secession. The region thus came under Confederate control from 1861 to 1863. Nevertheless East Tennessee supplied significant numbers of troops to the Federal army. (See also Nickajack). Many East Tennesseans engaged in guerrilla warfare against state authorities by burning bridges, cutting telegraph wires, and spying for the North.[29] East Tennessee became an early base for the Republican Party in the South. Strong support for the Union challenged the Confederate commanders who controlled East Tennessee for most of the war. Generals Felix K. Zollicoffer, Edmund Kirby Smith, and Sam Jones oscillated between harsh measures and conciliatory gestures to gain support, but had little success whether they arrested hundreds of Unionist leaders or allowed men to escape the Confederate draft. Union forces finally captured the region in 1863.[30] General William Sherman’s famous March to the Sea saw him personally escorted by the 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment, which consisted entirely of Unionist southerners. Despite its name, the regiment consisted largely of men from Tennessee.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_in_the_American_Civil_War#East_Tennessee

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    "Dunno. Enthusiasm for secession was quite weak in the areas of the South (e.g., western Virginia, east Tennessee, etc) where slavery was marginal:"

    That is 100% correct. And there were counties in a number of other Southern states that decided from the get go they weren't seceding. Additionally there was some real doubt that states like Tennessee would actually enter the War on the Southern side. The Southern planter class (and slavery) wasn't exactly popular with the Scotch-Irish of Appalachia and Texas.

    But you are also neglecting the fact that support for the War in areas of the North besides New England was pretty tepid in the beginning. I've read at least one history whose conclusion was that if Fort Sumter hadn't been shelled the War might very well not have happened, and Secession may have occurred without a shot being fired.

    Then too, it is pretty cliched at this point to say "Duh, it was all about slavery." And pay not one whit's worth of credence to the arguments about tariffs (I believe in this period most of the operating expenses of the Federal government were financed by these). I might add that those economic issues came up time and again, including with Bryan and his many presidential runs, up until about the time of Henry Ford, that being about when manufacturing began to be of importance to more of the local economies in this country.

    I guess the point I want to make is that there is a mutual dislike between Southerners and Yankees. And it goes back to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, not just the expansion of slavery in America.
  46. @Sunbeam
    One thing that is irritating to me as a Southerner, is it seems like SJW's seem to think we all want to bring back slavery or something.

    My heart is stirred by songs like The Bonnie Blue Flag and grey and butternut uniforms, not to mention the Stars and Bars which somehow became our flag out of all the others flown by the South during the war.

    But bring back slavery? I'll be honest with everyone I, and I think most white Southerners, at least the ones I've talked to in my life wish that slave one had never been brought to America. I'm quite sure we think differently than our ancestors did, but you can trust me that this is the overwhelming sentiment today.

    That said, I have always thought the North/South enmity existed outside of slavery. I really think that the roots of it go back to Cromwell and the English Civil War.

    Obviously there are more sections of the country than Dixie and the New England states, but Yankees rub more people the wrong way than just Southerners.

    Really think something else would have been the flashpoint for some kind of conflict, even an armed one, if slavery had never existed in this country.

    One of the most puzzling aspects of American culture is the North /South divide which in fact has nothing to do with slaves and plantations, but goes deeper than that. Even the different British origins of the settlers fails to capture the real difference. My theory is that climate and separation (physical separation, as in distance from the North’s cultural centers and population, not just local federal rule) had a lot to do with the deep-seated cultural and political differences.
    IMHO, the USA is a social construct if there ever was one. Clearly, Dixieland is a different country and should have gained independence long before the Civil War broke out.

  47. @syonredux

    Really think something else would have been the flashpoint for some kind of conflict, even an armed one, if slavery had never existed in this country.
     
    Dunno. Enthusiasm for secession was quite weak in the areas of the South (e.g., western Virginia, east Tennessee, etc) where slavery was marginal:

    East Tennessee was a stronghold of Unionism; most slaves were house servants—luxuries—rather than the base of plantation operations. The dominant mood strongly opposed secession.[28] Tennesseans representing twenty-six East Tennessee counties met twice in Greeneville and Knoxville and agreed to secede from Tennessee (see East Tennessee Convention of 1861.) They petitioned the state legislature in Nashville, which denied their request to secede and sent Confederate troops under Felix Zollicoffer to occupy East Tennessee and prevent secession. The region thus came under Confederate control from 1861 to 1863. Nevertheless East Tennessee supplied significant numbers of troops to the Federal army. (See also Nickajack). Many East Tennesseans engaged in guerrilla warfare against state authorities by burning bridges, cutting telegraph wires, and spying for the North.[29] East Tennessee became an early base for the Republican Party in the South. Strong support for the Union challenged the Confederate commanders who controlled East Tennessee for most of the war. Generals Felix K. Zollicoffer, Edmund Kirby Smith, and Sam Jones oscillated between harsh measures and conciliatory gestures to gain support, but had little success whether they arrested hundreds of Unionist leaders or allowed men to escape the Confederate draft. Union forces finally captured the region in 1863.[30] General William Sherman's famous March to the Sea saw him personally escorted by the 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment, which consisted entirely of Unionist southerners. Despite its name, the regiment consisted largely of men from Tennessee.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_in_the_American_Civil_War#East_Tennessee

    “Dunno. Enthusiasm for secession was quite weak in the areas of the South (e.g., western Virginia, east Tennessee, etc) where slavery was marginal:”

    That is 100% correct. And there were counties in a number of other Southern states that decided from the get go they weren’t seceding. Additionally there was some real doubt that states like Tennessee would actually enter the War on the Southern side. The Southern planter class (and slavery) wasn’t exactly popular with the Scotch-Irish of Appalachia and Texas.

    But you are also neglecting the fact that support for the War in areas of the North besides New England was pretty tepid in the beginning. I’ve read at least one history whose conclusion was that if Fort Sumter hadn’t been shelled the War might very well not have happened, and Secession may have occurred without a shot being fired.

    Then too, it is pretty cliched at this point to say “Duh, it was all about slavery.” And pay not one whit’s worth of credence to the arguments about tariffs (I believe in this period most of the operating expenses of the Federal government were financed by these). I might add that those economic issues came up time and again, including with Bryan and his many presidential runs, up until about the time of Henry Ford, that being about when manufacturing began to be of importance to more of the local economies in this country.

    I guess the point I want to make is that there is a mutual dislike between Southerners and Yankees. And it goes back to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, not just the expansion of slavery in America.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @syonredux

    But you are also neglecting the fact that support for the War in areas of the North besides New England was pretty tepid in the beginning. I’ve read at least one history whose conclusion was that if Fort Sumter hadn’t been shelled the War might very well not have happened, and Secession may have occurred without a shot being fired.
     
    It's a common observation among historians that only two states seemed really enthusiastic about fighting, South Carolina and Massachusetts...

    Then too, it is pretty cliched at this point to say “Duh, it was all about slavery.” And pay not one whit’s worth of credence to the arguments about tariffs (I believe in this period most of the operating expenses of the Federal government were financed by these).
     
    Yeah, but those arguments arose in the context of plantation slavery.....

    I guess the point I want to make is that there is a mutual dislike between Southerners and Yankees. And it goes back to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, not just the expansion of slavery in America.

     

    Dunno. Remove slavery from the equation, and everything changes. For example, what would the South look like without a history of slavery......
  48. @syonredux

    My heart is stirred by songs like The Bonnie Blue Flag and grey and butternut uniforms, not to mention the Stars and Bars which somehow became our flag out of all the others flown by the South during the war.
     
    There was an interesting Jewish role in the development of the Confederate Battle Flag:

    William Miles’s disappointment with the Stars and Bars went beyond his strong ideological objections to the Stars and Stripes. He had hoped that the Confederacy would adopt his own design for a national flag-the pattern that later generations mistakenly and ironically insisted on calling the Stars and Bars. The design that Miles championed was apparently inspired by one of the flags used at the South Carolina secession convention in December 1860. That flag featured a blue St. George’s (or upright) cross on a red field. Emblazoned on the cross were fifteen white stars representing the slaveholding states, and on the red field were two symbols of South Carolina: the palmetto tree and the crescent. Charles Moise, a self-described “southerner of Jewish persuasion,” wrote Miles and other members of the South Carolina delegation asking that “the symbol of a particular religion” not be made the symbol of the nation.
     

    In adapting his flag to take these criticisms into account, Miles removed the palmetto tree and crescent and substituted a diagonal cross for the St. George’s cross. Recalling (and sketching) his proposal a few months later, Miles explained that the diagonal cross was preferable because “it avoided the religious objection about the cross (from the Jews & many Protestant sects), because it did not stand out so conspicuously as if the cross had been placed upright thus.” The diagonal cross was, Miles argued, “more Heraldric [sic] than Ecclesiastical, it being the ‘saltire’ of Heraldry, and significant of strength and progress (from the Latin salto, to leap).”
     
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-politically-correct-origin-of-the-confederate-battle-flag/

    Hmmm reread this.

    I know it may be esoteric and of no interest to most, but what am I supposed to get from this?

    Jewish Confederate would rather not fight under a flag with the Christian cross?

    Doesn’t bug me, I’m more a Cross of St. Andrews guy anyway, as opposed to the Cross of St. George.

    I mean would you rather be a highlander with a kilt, a claymore, whiskey, and bagpipes? Or wear a powdered wig?

    No contest in my book.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I know it may be esoteric and of no interest to most, but what am I supposed to get from this?

     

    If true, it would mean the only state with a Christian cross on its flag would be Hawaii.

    https://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst016.gif

    In contrast, seven of Canada's ten provinces have a cross.

    http://shop.flagshop.com/media/img-uploads/flag-canada-provincial.gif

    But you can't beat Quebec's old one.

    http://cartiergeneral.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/drapeaux_carillon_sacre_coeur.jpg

    Or the Dominican Republic's present one.

    https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/caribb/dominicanrepublic/dopics/flagpics/doflag.png

    https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.351143562.5388/raf,360x360,075,t,fafafa:ca443f4786.jpg

    , @syonredux

    Hmmm reread this.

    I know it may be esoteric and of no interest to most, but what am I supposed to get from this?

    Jewish Confederate would rather not fight under a flag with the Christian cross?
     
    It just shows how considerate the South was towards Jewish sensibilities.
  49. @Mr. Anon

    No one has mentioned that Levy married a Christian woman (daughter of a governor) , changed his last name to Yulee, converted to Christianity and raised his children as Christians.
     
    Meaning? He wasn't really jewish?

    Felix Mendelssohn was not raised in Judaism, and was baptized and lived his life as a Christian. Jews still seem quite happy to claim him as one of their own.

    Senator David Levy, the Father of Florida Statehood, the father of Florida railroads, was a Jew.

    Traitor David Yulee, the slavemaster, the Florida Fire Eater, was a Christian.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Senator David Levy, the Father of Florida Statehood, the father of Florida railroads, was a Jew.

    Traitor David Yulee, the slavemaster, the Florida Fire Eater, was a Christian.
     
    And yet the two were one and the same man, and both of them ethnically jewish.
    , @Mishra
    Unclear if you are poking fun at a classic antisemitic trope or simply delivering yourself of one. Either way, fairly telling.
  50. @syonredux

    My heart is stirred by songs like The Bonnie Blue Flag and grey and butternut uniforms, not to mention the Stars and Bars which somehow became our flag out of all the others flown by the South during the war.
     
    There was an interesting Jewish role in the development of the Confederate Battle Flag:

    William Miles’s disappointment with the Stars and Bars went beyond his strong ideological objections to the Stars and Stripes. He had hoped that the Confederacy would adopt his own design for a national flag-the pattern that later generations mistakenly and ironically insisted on calling the Stars and Bars. The design that Miles championed was apparently inspired by one of the flags used at the South Carolina secession convention in December 1860. That flag featured a blue St. George’s (or upright) cross on a red field. Emblazoned on the cross were fifteen white stars representing the slaveholding states, and on the red field were two symbols of South Carolina: the palmetto tree and the crescent. Charles Moise, a self-described “southerner of Jewish persuasion,” wrote Miles and other members of the South Carolina delegation asking that “the symbol of a particular religion” not be made the symbol of the nation.
     

    In adapting his flag to take these criticisms into account, Miles removed the palmetto tree and crescent and substituted a diagonal cross for the St. George’s cross. Recalling (and sketching) his proposal a few months later, Miles explained that the diagonal cross was preferable because “it avoided the religious objection about the cross (from the Jews & many Protestant sects), because it did not stand out so conspicuously as if the cross had been placed upright thus.” The diagonal cross was, Miles argued, “more Heraldric [sic] than Ecclesiastical, it being the ‘saltire’ of Heraldry, and significant of strength and progress (from the Latin salto, to leap).”
     
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-politically-correct-origin-of-the-confederate-battle-flag/

  51. What kind of Jewish family name is Yulee? It sounds Chinese, lol!
    The “Levi Family” link in my previous comment claims that Grandfather Yulee was Muslim. Another link with much more detail claims that Grandfather Yuli was was a Sephardic Jew who was an advisor to a Muslim ruler in Morocco. Which sounds more valid to me, as his grandfather’s full name has some Jewish-sounding parts, like Eli and Levi. Hernando Sun:David Levy Yulee.

    Yulee’s heritage is as fascinating as his historical significance to the state. The Levy family had immigrated to Morocco from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition. The Levys were Jewish and during the Inquisition many Jews were forced to convert to Christianity and others were killed.

    It was David Levy Yulee’s father, Moses Elias Levy who eventually made his way to Florida. Moses’ father, Eliahu Ha’Levi ibn Yuli, was a jewish advisor to Mohammed ben Abdallah Sultan/ governor of Marrakech in Morocco. David Levy Yulee took the name of this grandfather after being elected to the Florida Senate and influenced his older brother Elias to do the same (to the disdain of their father Moses Elias).

    During grandfather Yuli’s advisorship, the Muslim rulers of Morocco regarded foreign jews more highly than native jews. The Sultans were also aware that the Spanish Jews were considered outsiders by the native Moroccan Jews and took advantage of this.

    Towards the end of Yuli’s advisorship, it is said he discovered an assassination plot on Sultan Abdallah by the Sultan’s son (Yazid of Morocco). While he did save the monarch’s life, he did it at great risk to himself and his family. When Abdallah died in 1790, the Levy family once again found themselves in grave danger. They left Morocco retracing their steps across the Straits of Gibraltar, settling not in Spain (as the Inquisition was still underway) but on the British “Rock” of Gibraltar.

    Then on to the Caribbean and then to the US.

    A friend of mine is Jewish and from Morocco. I will ask her if she has heard of the surname Yuli.

    • Replies: @BB753
    Thanks! I wrongly assumed most of the American Sephardic Jews came from the Netherlands or Great Britain.
  52. @for-the-record
    But no Union Jewish senators or cabinet secretaries?

    First Jewish cabinet secretary was Oscar Straus (Commerce and Labor) in 1906. First Jewish senator from a "Northern" state was apparently Joseph Simon (Oregon, 1908). Both Straus and Simon were born in Germany.

    First Jewish cabinet secretary was Oscar Straus (Commerce and Labor) in 1906. First Jewish senator from a “Northern” state was apparently Joseph Simon (Oregon, 1908).

    First Gentile governor of Utah (1917-21) was Simon Bamberger, a German-born Jew.

    Utah’s women have voted in more federal elections than any other state’s except Wyoming’s. Considering that 44 states are older, that’s saying something. Like, this is one weird state.

    (It’s also shaped like a washing machine. Just what are they laundering there?)

    Moses Alexander, another German-born Jew, was serving as Idaho’s governor when Bamberger was elected.

    Beating both of them to the punch was Washington Bartlett, which sounds like something out of a Northwest orchard. He was born in Savannah and was elected California’s governor in 1886. Being of Sephardic descent and irreligious no doubt eased the way a bit.

    He was also a Leap Day baby. So he died in office just months before his 16th birthday.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    (It’s also shaped like a washing machine. Just what are they laundering there?)
     
    Garments. Lots and lots of sacred garments.
  53. @Sunbeam
    Hmmm reread this.

    I know it may be esoteric and of no interest to most, but what am I supposed to get from this?

    Jewish Confederate would rather not fight under a flag with the Christian cross?

    Doesn't bug me, I'm more a Cross of St. Andrews guy anyway, as opposed to the Cross of St. George.

    I mean would you rather be a highlander with a kilt, a claymore, whiskey, and bagpipes? Or wear a powdered wig?

    No contest in my book.

    I know it may be esoteric and of no interest to most, but what am I supposed to get from this?

    If true, it would mean the only state with a Christian cross on its flag would be Hawaii.

    In contrast, seven of Canada’s ten provinces have a cross.

    But you can’t beat Quebec’s old one.

    Or the Dominican Republic’s present one.

  54. “Like most of us, his life displayed contradictions”

    It is like some people are allowed to have contradictions in their beliefs and others aren’t allowed. I wonder if there is a pattern. When you are allowed contradictions it appears to give you moral superiority. No wonder certain people feel they need to remain vigilant.

  55. @Sunbeam
    "Dunno. Enthusiasm for secession was quite weak in the areas of the South (e.g., western Virginia, east Tennessee, etc) where slavery was marginal:"

    That is 100% correct. And there were counties in a number of other Southern states that decided from the get go they weren't seceding. Additionally there was some real doubt that states like Tennessee would actually enter the War on the Southern side. The Southern planter class (and slavery) wasn't exactly popular with the Scotch-Irish of Appalachia and Texas.

    But you are also neglecting the fact that support for the War in areas of the North besides New England was pretty tepid in the beginning. I've read at least one history whose conclusion was that if Fort Sumter hadn't been shelled the War might very well not have happened, and Secession may have occurred without a shot being fired.

    Then too, it is pretty cliched at this point to say "Duh, it was all about slavery." And pay not one whit's worth of credence to the arguments about tariffs (I believe in this period most of the operating expenses of the Federal government were financed by these). I might add that those economic issues came up time and again, including with Bryan and his many presidential runs, up until about the time of Henry Ford, that being about when manufacturing began to be of importance to more of the local economies in this country.

    I guess the point I want to make is that there is a mutual dislike between Southerners and Yankees. And it goes back to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, not just the expansion of slavery in America.

    But you are also neglecting the fact that support for the War in areas of the North besides New England was pretty tepid in the beginning. I’ve read at least one history whose conclusion was that if Fort Sumter hadn’t been shelled the War might very well not have happened, and Secession may have occurred without a shot being fired.

    It’s a common observation among historians that only two states seemed really enthusiastic about fighting, South Carolina and Massachusetts…

    Then too, it is pretty cliched at this point to say “Duh, it was all about slavery.” And pay not one whit’s worth of credence to the arguments about tariffs (I believe in this period most of the operating expenses of the Federal government were financed by these).

    Yeah, but those arguments arose in the context of plantation slavery…..

    I guess the point I want to make is that there is a mutual dislike between Southerners and Yankees. And it goes back to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, not just the expansion of slavery in America.

    Dunno. Remove slavery from the equation, and everything changes. For example, what would the South look like without a history of slavery……

    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Yeah, but those arguments arose in the context of plantation slavery…..
     
    The industrial/agrarian divide continued post civil war. Either innate differences or Northern domination of the federal government in order to punish their rivals were the cause. Either way, it was going to be a break point.

    Dunno. Remove slavery from the equation, and everything changes. For example, what would the South look like without a history of slavery……
     
    You can get an idea from this:
    http://civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm

    Compare the states with high levels of slavery (Mississippi, South Carolina) to those with lower levels (Arkansas, Missouri).
  56. @Sunbeam
    Hmmm reread this.

    I know it may be esoteric and of no interest to most, but what am I supposed to get from this?

    Jewish Confederate would rather not fight under a flag with the Christian cross?

    Doesn't bug me, I'm more a Cross of St. Andrews guy anyway, as opposed to the Cross of St. George.

    I mean would you rather be a highlander with a kilt, a claymore, whiskey, and bagpipes? Or wear a powdered wig?

    No contest in my book.

    Hmmm reread this.

    I know it may be esoteric and of no interest to most, but what am I supposed to get from this?

    Jewish Confederate would rather not fight under a flag with the Christian cross?

    It just shows how considerate the South was towards Jewish sensibilities.

  57. @Gringo
    What kind of Jewish family name is Yulee? It sounds Chinese, lol!
    The "Levi Family" link in my previous comment claims that Grandfather Yulee was Muslim. Another link with much more detail claims that Grandfather Yuli was was a Sephardic Jew who was an advisor to a Muslim ruler in Morocco. Which sounds more valid to me, as his grandfather's full name has some Jewish-sounding parts, like Eli and Levi. Hernando Sun:David Levy Yulee.

    Yulee’s heritage is as fascinating as his historical significance to the state. The Levy family had immigrated to Morocco from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition. The Levys were Jewish and during the Inquisition many Jews were forced to convert to Christianity and others were killed.

    It was David Levy Yulee’s father, Moses Elias Levy who eventually made his way to Florida. Moses’ father, Eliahu Ha’Levi ibn Yuli, was a jewish advisor to Mohammed ben Abdallah Sultan/ governor of Marrakech in Morocco. David Levy Yulee took the name of this grandfather after being elected to the Florida Senate and influenced his older brother Elias to do the same (to the disdain of their father Moses Elias).

    During grandfather Yuli’s advisorship, the Muslim rulers of Morocco regarded foreign jews more highly than native jews. The Sultans were also aware that the Spanish Jews were considered outsiders by the native Moroccan Jews and took advantage of this.

    Towards the end of Yuli’s advisorship, it is said he discovered an assassination plot on Sultan Abdallah by the Sultan’s son (Yazid of Morocco). While he did save the monarch’s life, he did it at great risk to himself and his family. When Abdallah died in 1790, the Levy family once again found themselves in grave danger. They left Morocco retracing their steps across the Straits of Gibraltar, settling not in Spain (as the Inquisition was still underway) but on the British “Rock” of Gibraltar.

     
    Then on to the Caribbean and then to the US.

    A friend of mine is Jewish and from Morocco. I will ask her if she has heard of the surname Yuli.

    Thanks! I wrongly assumed most of the American Sephardic Jews came from the Netherlands or Great Britain.

  58. @Jack D
    Senator David Levy, the Father of Florida Statehood, the father of Florida railroads, was a Jew.

    Traitor David Yulee, the slavemaster, the Florida Fire Eater, was a Christian.

    Senator David Levy, the Father of Florida Statehood, the father of Florida railroads, was a Jew.

    Traitor David Yulee, the slavemaster, the Florida Fire Eater, was a Christian.

    And yet the two were one and the same man, and both of them ethnically jewish.

  59. @Jack D
    Senator David Levy, the Father of Florida Statehood, the father of Florida railroads, was a Jew.

    Traitor David Yulee, the slavemaster, the Florida Fire Eater, was a Christian.

    Unclear if you are poking fun at a classic antisemitic trope or simply delivering yourself of one. Either way, fairly telling.

  60. @syonredux

    But you are also neglecting the fact that support for the War in areas of the North besides New England was pretty tepid in the beginning. I’ve read at least one history whose conclusion was that if Fort Sumter hadn’t been shelled the War might very well not have happened, and Secession may have occurred without a shot being fired.
     
    It's a common observation among historians that only two states seemed really enthusiastic about fighting, South Carolina and Massachusetts...

    Then too, it is pretty cliched at this point to say “Duh, it was all about slavery.” And pay not one whit’s worth of credence to the arguments about tariffs (I believe in this period most of the operating expenses of the Federal government were financed by these).
     
    Yeah, but those arguments arose in the context of plantation slavery.....

    I guess the point I want to make is that there is a mutual dislike between Southerners and Yankees. And it goes back to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, not just the expansion of slavery in America.

     

    Dunno. Remove slavery from the equation, and everything changes. For example, what would the South look like without a history of slavery......

    Yeah, but those arguments arose in the context of plantation slavery…..

    The industrial/agrarian divide continued post civil war. Either innate differences or Northern domination of the federal government in order to punish their rivals were the cause. Either way, it was going to be a break point.

    Dunno. Remove slavery from the equation, and everything changes. For example, what would the South look like without a history of slavery……

    You can get an idea from this:
    http://civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm

    Compare the states with high levels of slavery (Mississippi, South Carolina) to those with lower levels (Arkansas, Missouri).

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Yeah, but those arguments arose in the context of plantation slavery…..

    The industrial/agrarian divide continued post civil war. Either innate differences or Northern domination of the federal government in order to punish their rivals were the cause. Either way, it was going to be a break point.
     
    Yeah, but the actual breaking point occurred in the context of economies that were dependent on plantation slavery.....I'm quite unconvinced that a South that never had plantation slavery would have attempted to secede....

    Dunno. Remove slavery from the equation, and everything changes. For example, what would the South look like without a history of slavery……

    You can get an idea from this:

    http://civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm

    Compare the states with high levels of slavery (Mississippi, South Carolina) to those with lower levels (Arkansas, Missouri).
     
    An imperfect mirror (slavery was still a factor)...but it does give us some insight....
  61. @Reg Cæsar

    First Jewish cabinet secretary was Oscar Straus (Commerce and Labor) in 1906. First Jewish senator from a “Northern” state was apparently Joseph Simon (Oregon, 1908).

     

    First Gentile governor of Utah (1917-21) was Simon Bamberger, a German-born Jew.

    Utah's women have voted in more federal elections than any other state's except Wyoming's. Considering that 44 states are older, that's saying something. Like, this is one weird state.

    (It's also shaped like a washing machine. Just what are they laundering there?)

    Moses Alexander, another German-born Jew, was serving as Idaho's governor when Bamberger was elected.

    Beating both of them to the punch was Washington Bartlett, which sounds like something out of a Northwest orchard. He was born in Savannah and was elected California's governor in 1886. Being of Sephardic descent and irreligious no doubt eased the way a bit.

    He was also a Leap Day baby. So he died in office just months before his 16th birthday.

    (It’s also shaped like a washing machine. Just what are they laundering there?)

    Garments. Lots and lots of sacred garments.

  62. @Samuel Skinner

    Yeah, but those arguments arose in the context of plantation slavery…..
     
    The industrial/agrarian divide continued post civil war. Either innate differences or Northern domination of the federal government in order to punish their rivals were the cause. Either way, it was going to be a break point.

    Dunno. Remove slavery from the equation, and everything changes. For example, what would the South look like without a history of slavery……
     
    You can get an idea from this:
    http://civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm

    Compare the states with high levels of slavery (Mississippi, South Carolina) to those with lower levels (Arkansas, Missouri).

    Yeah, but those arguments arose in the context of plantation slavery…..

    The industrial/agrarian divide continued post civil war. Either innate differences or Northern domination of the federal government in order to punish their rivals were the cause. Either way, it was going to be a break point.

    Yeah, but the actual breaking point occurred in the context of economies that were dependent on plantation slavery…..I’m quite unconvinced that a South that never had plantation slavery would have attempted to secede….

    Dunno. Remove slavery from the equation, and everything changes. For example, what would the South look like without a history of slavery……

    You can get an idea from this:

    http://civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm

    Compare the states with high levels of slavery (Mississippi, South Carolina) to those with lower levels (Arkansas, Missouri).

    An imperfect mirror (slavery was still a factor)…but it does give us some insight….

  63. @reiner Tor
    In fact, they seem to have been disproportionately pro-slavery. There’s nothing wrong with it, I just don’t like how gentile whites are expected to self-flagellate over the sins of their ancestors (or the ancestors of other members of their ethnic groups), like slavery or the holocaust, while Jews are never expected to do introspection regarding things members of their ethnic groups did in the past, like slavery or communism. (No, not all Jews were commies, and no, not all commies were Jews. But not all whites were slaveholders, and not all slaveholders were white, either. Same thing about Germans and the holocaust, or Hungarians and the holocaust, etc.)

    You just said it yourself: The Holocaust. It absolves them of everything forever. Even asking the question that you ask is anti-Semitic. Because Holocaust.

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