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Are There Racial Differences in Tastes for Flavors?
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Is the famous predilection of African Americans for grape sodapop due to nature or nurture?

My bet would be nurture, in that there would appear to be a sizable role for imprinting in what tastes you grow up liking.

I don’t know about grape soda particularly, but I can recall somebody in the marketing business explaining to me that orange soda tends to be one of the flavors that a developing country first falls in love with because refrigeration is spotty or nonexistent. Orange apparently tastes okay warm. Is something similar also true for grape-flavored drinks?

In contrast, the cola flavor is much better ice cold. That’s a big reason that Coca-Cola is so associated with America: America, with its hot summers compared to Europe, had more refrigeration earlier than the rest of the world. And even before the spread of mechanical refrigeration, America had a sizable ice industry, going way back to at least 1806 when Frederic Tudor started harvesting ice from Boston area ponds and shipping it to Martinique. Thoreau wrote in Walden, “The sweltering inhabitants of Charleston and New Orleans, of Madras and Bombay and Calcutta, drink at my well.”

The American love of cold drinks is indicative of the U.S.’s traditionally high standard of living. Coca-Cola was invented in Georgia in the late 19th Century to be drunk cold at commercial soda fountains. I have a vivid memory of escorting a visiting distant Swiss relative to Disneyland in the summer of 1980 and her insisting on ordering the smallest cola on the menu and then objecting when the glass came half full of ice. You’re at Disneyland in August, do like the Americans do: order a big soda with a lot of ice.

On the other hand, it’s not impossible that different racial groups might have, on average, different innate tastes. Different groups have clearly evolved different physical and cultural responses to alcohol over the ten or twelve thousand or so years that agriculture has been around, so it’s hardly impossible that they’ve also evolved other beverage and food likes and dislikes.

 
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  1. Ice? Payin’ for frozen water?

    Wooh boy, they got you comin’ an’ goin’!

    • Replies: @guest
    @BenKenobi

    Too true. Here in MN, 9 months of the year we threw cases of pop in the nearest snowdrift while we're walking 8 miles uphill both ways to school, and enjoyed them at our leisure.

    The rest of the year we drank lake water and liked it!

    Replies: @Ivy

    , @Alden
    @BenKenobi

    You don’t pay for the ice. You pay for the drink which is full of ice. Or you can just tell the waiter no ice. If it’s one of those drink stations where one fills the cup, just don’t put the cup under the ice despenser

    But with our hot summers. Americans love a glass of ice cubes and soda.

    7-up tastes terrible unless it’s ice cold. Coke tastes bad unless it’s cold Mountain Dew is pretty good tepid.

    A lot of American Mothers don’t keep soda in the house. So we grow up thinking soda is an eating out special treat.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  2. The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    That's just common southern food. Blacks in food, as in many other things, are just southerners by culture.

    Replies: @Antlitz Grollheim, @Anonymous

    , @White Guy In Japan
    @Anonymous

    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Henry's Cat, @27 year old, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @guest

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Anonymous


    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.
     
    The explanation - perhaps apocryphal - was that slaves in the antebellum South were permitted to breed and raise chickens for personal use in and around their slave quarters in the typical free-range sort of manner. Non-industrial scale chicken production doesn't require much in the way of resources and the chickens more or less raise themselves, feasting on grasses, wild seeds, insects, undigested grain passed through larger animals and occasionally other small animals with little or no impact on the plantation's main farming operations (unlike pigs or goats).

    So the slave's diet (and, one assumes, the diet of freed slaves down the line) was heavy on chicken.
    , @Alden
    @Anonymous

    Southerners love Kentucky fried chicken. Blacks have a southern heritage.

    , @The King is A Fink
    @Anonymous

    The brothers in South Africa are pretty keen on their KFC too. You could always tell when payday had rolled round by the number of dead dogs along the roads into the townships. Payday = KFC = bones thrown out of taxi windows = scavenging dogs = roadkill.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @e
    @Anonymous

    They like Popeye's better, if there's one around. Spicy.

    , @Forbes
    @Anonymous

    There's a host of fast food outlets in NYC called Kennedy Fried Chicken. One in Harlem has a logo/graphics design that requires a double-take to realize it doesn't say Kentucky Fried Chicken...

    Apparently there are many of these places--all under different ownership but predominately A-A owned.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

  3. Given all the weird things that genetic researchers ask their subjects, there may be data on this. Didn’t they establish that a dislike of cilantro is genetic (if you have a fold on your earlobe and your left hand third finger is longer than your fourth)?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Stephen Marle

    I hate cilantro. Tastes like soap.
    I find myself briefly in the People's Republic of China on an ostensibly educational propaganda-tourism thing.
    A third of the otherwise indescribably delicious food has cilantro.
    I recall my now-dead elderly Indian neighbor serving me cold chutney, and my abnormally manly and diplomatic pretense of enjoyment.
    I recall my larval-otak desire to one day be a good fellow among conformity-prizing East Asians.
    I recall how much money I paid to be there.
    By the end of the trip I was okay with cilantro. I don't seek it out, I cannot understand why lemongrass isn't bigger, but cilantro no longer tastes like soap to me. Scientific postscript: my sister (still) hates cilantro.

    Replies: @Stephen Marle, @Daniel Chieh

    , @TTSSYF
    @Stephen Marle

    I used to not like cilantro but, one day, in a particular meal, found that I did. I now love cilantro and always order extra when it comes on a meal at a restaurant. You should give it a try. It's an acquired taste.

    , @slumber_j
    @Stephen Marle

    You beat me to it, but yes.

    Also: the business where asparagus makes your urine smell funny has a double-barrel genetic basis. Some people's urine doesn't smell funny after they eat asparagus, and some people's does smell funny but they can't tell. And taste is mostly smell after all.

    Speaking of which, I've tried to find other people over the years who detect the smell of raw silk as I do: I remember standing in a sunny group once waiting to board an airplane outside and suddenly being hammered by the smell, distinctive and nutty. I remarked to my wife that someone must be wearing raw silk in the vicinity, and then spotted the source sweater maybe six feet away. Informal polling reveals that few people even know what I'm talking about.

    Replies: @Miss Laura, @ScarletNumber

    , @Kyle
    @Stephen Marle

    Coca cola is formulated to be drinken over ice. The syrup is so concentrated that it needs to be poured in a cup filled half way with ice in order for the sweetness to balance correctly. all soda pop is like that, designed to taste great out of the fountain over ice.

  4. I await the discovery of the genes that code for love of fried chicken, watermelon, Newports and grape drank.

    • Replies: @guest
    @AndrewR

    Speaking of drank, in favor of the nurture side would be blacks preferring whatever soft drink pairs best with codeine cough syrup.

    Whether their love of codeine is innate is another question. Maybe they have a genetic preference for being high and an environmental tendency to be prescribed strong cough syrup.

    Yet another possibility: they're born to love syrup.

    Replies: @Anon

  5. @Anonymous
    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @White Guy In Japan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden, @The King is A Fink, @e, @Forbes

    That’s just common southern food. Blacks in food, as in many other things, are just southerners by culture.

    • Replies: @Antlitz Grollheim
    @Anonymous

    Yea but Africans love fried chicken too.

    I always wondered, is the joy of a juicy steak a European thing? You don't see other races slobbering over slabs of beef like we do.

    Replies: @guest, @Anatoly Karlin, @jimmyriddle, @dearieme

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    That’s just common southern food. Blacks in food, as in many other things, are just southerners by culture.
     
    So true. My Georgia-born white mom, who moved to Los Angeles as a young woman, loved it when she found a "soul food" restaurant, the greens, the cornbread, etc. And she's quite the critic when the food doesn't live up to her memories.

    I do remember the little 6-1/2 ounce bottles of Coke, by the wooden case, piled up in my grandparents house near Atlanta. They really drank that stuff like water.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

  6. Blacks love menthol cigarettes, which I find disgusting.

    • Replies: @guest
    @Pat Casey

    Omar Little, Baltimore stick-up man ("I robs drug dealers"), sure loved his "Newpotes" (Newports). "Indeed."

    , @Anonymous
    @Pat Casey


    Blacks love menthol cigarettes, which I find disgusting.
     
    The cigarettes, or the methol? It would seem to me that the former is a couple of orders of magnitude more disgusting than the latter.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Pat Casey

    Pat, Didn't start smoking until my twenties, and got addicted quickly. Buffalo was a city full of heavy, dirty and hot industry, such as the half dozen or so steel mills and a handful of foundries. I always carried an extra pack of Kools or Newports in my lunch bucket. You know, because they were less harsh on the pipes when choking down ore dust or foundry soot. Otherwise it was Marlboros.

  7. @BenKenobi
    Ice? Payin' for frozen water?

    Wooh boy, they got you comin' an' goin'!

    Replies: @guest, @Alden

    Too true. Here in MN, 9 months of the year we threw cases of pop in the nearest snowdrift while we’re walking 8 miles uphill both ways to school, and enjoyed them at our leisure.

    The rest of the year we drank lake water and liked it!

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @guest

    One of the many joys of skiing is a chilled beverage retrieved from a snowbank. Grape (champagne, Asti, etc), grain (beer, vodka, etc), or maybe tequila, your choice.

  8. @AndrewR
    I await the discovery of the genes that code for love of fried chicken, watermelon, Newports and grape drank.

    Replies: @guest

    Speaking of drank, in favor of the nurture side would be blacks preferring whatever soft drink pairs best with codeine cough syrup.

    Whether their love of codeine is innate is another question. Maybe they have a genetic preference for being high and an environmental tendency to be prescribed strong cough syrup.

    Yet another possibility: they’re born to love syrup.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @guest

    More sugar was available to sub-Saharan Africans in the form of sweet fruit than was available to Northern Europeans in prehistory because Africa has a year-round growing season, as well as a wider variety of fruit. Also, fruit ferments fast in a hot climate, which means Africans were used to getting drunk off the fruit they ate. A mixture of grape drink and codeine likely suits them fine.

  9. Aussies invented refrigeration.
    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/01/australias-top-10-inventions-refrigeration/
    The Kiwis were the first to fly.
    http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html
    You Seppos are as useless as tits on a bull.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    @Anon

    I like your joke about Kiwis flying. But your serious point dashed my hopes. I had thought that among the myriad bogus claims of American "firsts" that at least the one about the Wright Brothers was true.

    , @Kylie
    @Anon

    But Al Gore invented the internet!

    , @William Badwhite
    @Anon

    "You Seppos are as useless as tits on a bull."

    Other than the small matter of halting the Japanese' southward advance while the convicts, err, Australians were chasing Rommel around N. Africa at the behest of their British masters.

  10. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    That's just common southern food. Blacks in food, as in many other things, are just southerners by culture.

    Replies: @Antlitz Grollheim, @Anonymous

    Yea but Africans love fried chicken too.

    I always wondered, is the joy of a juicy steak a European thing? You don’t see other races slobbering over slabs of beef like we do.

    • Replies: @guest
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Hello! Japan does, to the extent that they grow the toppest of top selections for whities.

    But they also like baseball, which I find suspicious. Maybe MacArthur forced it on them.

    Replies: @njguy73, @Foreign Expert, @William Badwhite, @whorefinder

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Even more of an Anglo/European colonies sort of thing - grilling slabs of beef is the sort of thing when you make only when you have more protein calories than you know what to do with.

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio - i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Steak is foreign to East European cuisine, where meats to come in stews, and all the organs I used. I think it's the same for French cuisine, for Chinese cuisine, frankly for most cuisines so far as I can tell.

    I suspect that steak is something that the Japanese adopted from the Americans because it was cool and prestigious. Being Japanese they went on to make it better than their teachers (just as they did with Scotland/whiskey).

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous, @jeppo, @Joe Stalin

    , @jimmyriddle
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    South Africans (regardless of race) love biltong. I think it originated with Khoisan hunter gatherers.

    The modern stuff uses nitrates in the curing process, so is a risk factor for bowel cancer.

    , @dearieme
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    "is the joy of a juicy steak a European thing?" I though it was more an American thing. God knows why; their steaks aren't particularly good.

  11. The American love of cold drinks is indicative of the U.S.’s traditionally high standard of living.

    No it isn’t. It’s just a bizarre and senseless historical artifact. People in USA and Mexico put ice in their drinks, which sounds insane to people in Germany or Russia. Germany certainly has a higher standard of living than Mexico.

    (Russians still drink their vodka chilled, and there’s not a lack of cold in Russia. The relationship between living standards and cold seems suspect.)

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @anonymous coward

    I haven't been to Russia but I would guess that it's significantly cooler in the summer than the USA or Mexico. On a hot day ice will keep a drink cool and refreshing.

    , @anonymous
    @anonymous coward

    I've been told that in the UK the Limeys prefer their ale served at something close to room temperature--or at least certainly not cold.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    That's just common southern food. Blacks in food, as in many other things, are just southerners by culture.

    Replies: @Antlitz Grollheim, @Anonymous

    That’s just common southern food. Blacks in food, as in many other things, are just southerners by culture.

    So true. My Georgia-born white mom, who moved to Los Angeles as a young woman, loved it when she found a “soul food” restaurant, the greens, the cornbread, etc. And she’s quite the critic when the food doesn’t live up to her memories.

    I do remember the little 6-1/2 ounce bottles of Coke, by the wooden case, piled up in my grandparents house near Atlanta. They really drank that stuff like water.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Anonymous

    I grew up in the South. My wife is from a very warm country in Asia. Similar foods. One of the family recipes is an Asian dish that is almost exactly like shrimp gumbo. Much of the food she liked was also similar to black Caribbean food.

    We used to live in New York City. At one point my wife and I had jobs in black neighborhoods in Brooklyn that were close to each other -- her at a hospital, me at Medgar Evers College. Sometimes we would meet for some Soul Food or Caribbean food, and we would be the only non-blacks in the place. My students at Medgar Evers College were sometimes surprised by the food I would be munching on as I got to class. Stuff like Jamaican beef patties, which a local store sold for only $1 each.

    At one point I lived with a Chinese family in Taiwan. They would notice what I ate, cook those dishes more often, and push them closer to my rice bowl. At one point I realized I was constantly eating fried chicken, ribs, watermelon, etc. I had turned into a stereotype.

    As far as growing up with Soul Food, that was all on the school lunch plates. My town in the South was one of the very earliest places to integrate the schools. At the time of first integration the Superintendent was a Deep South Southerner. One day representatives of the local black community went to his office to request the schools start serving Soul Food at lunch. He asked what Soul Food was. Greens, cornbread, black-eyed peas, fried chicken, etc. The school superintendent replied that was all the good Southern food he grew up on, and ordered the schools to serve that food.

    My father, on the other hand, came from a New England family, dating back to 1620. Sometimes my mother would cook New England style food. I could NEVER get used to tongue, Welsh rarebit, etc. Sorry, but I prefer southern cuisine.

    This thread is making me hungry!

  13. @Pat Casey
    Blacks love menthol cigarettes, which I find disgusting.

    Replies: @guest, @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

    Omar Little, Baltimore stick-up man (“I robs drug dealers”), sure loved his “Newpotes” (Newports). “Indeed.”

  14. @Antlitz Grollheim
    @Anonymous

    Yea but Africans love fried chicken too.

    I always wondered, is the joy of a juicy steak a European thing? You don't see other races slobbering over slabs of beef like we do.

    Replies: @guest, @Anatoly Karlin, @jimmyriddle, @dearieme

    Hello! Japan does, to the extent that they grow the toppest of top selections for whities.

    But they also like baseball, which I find suspicious. Maybe MacArthur forced it on them.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    @guest


    But they also like baseball, which I find suspicious. Maybe MacArthur forced it on them.
     
    No. Baseball was first introduced to Japan as a school sport in 1872 by American Horace Wilson, an English professor at the Kaisei Academy in Tokyo. The first organized adult baseball team, called the Shimbashi Athletic Club, was established in 1878.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_in_Japan#History

    From 1908, several United States professional teams toured Japan and played against amateur teams made up mostly of university students, including both the Chicago White Sox and the New York Giants in 1913...The American Major League Baseball outfielder Lefty O'Doul was instrumental in spreading baseball's popularity in Japan, serving as the sport's goodwill ambassador before and after World War II....

    ...and by 1936, the seven-team Japan Occupational Baseball League was formed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_baseball_in_Japan#Early_attempts
    , @Foreign Expert
    @guest

    Baseball was popular in japan before the war. I think Babe Ruth toured japan.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    , @William Badwhite
    @guest

    It predates MacArthur by a long ways. I believe their professional leagues date to the 1920's or so. They just like baseball.

    I was going to opine that the ability to appreciate baseball is one sign of a more advanced society, but then remembered Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, etc all love it too, so there goes that theory.

    , @whorefinder
    @guest

    Baseball was popular in Japan well before WW2. In fact, it was so popular that in the 1930s the U.S. government used it as a cover to spy on Japan. The U.S. sent a squad of American all-stars to tour Japan in the winter, which included Babe Ruth, but suspiciously also put a bad-hitting, mediocre-fielding, unknown MLB catcher on the squad as well. His name was Moe Berg, a legitimate MLB player/second-string catcher, who was also secretly a U.S. spy. Berg fed intel learned on his trip back to the U.S. government, which helped them a bunch when war was declared.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Moe_Berg

    Berg's one of those vague, minor historical figures who seems to enjoy a flourish of re-discovery by sportswriters every 20-30 years and gets hot for a few weeks, usually right before the latest biography about him comes out, and then he goes back into hiding for a generation. I figure it's because he's of a ((certain ethnic group)) and fellow (((tribe members))) of each new generation who also like baseball have so few ((tribesman))) in the pages of MLB history that when they find a (((fellow ethnic)))) with such an interesting story they can't help but celebrate it into the megaphone they control.

    Contrast his story with people like actor Christopher Lee, a genuine special forces dude in WW2, but whose background there was almost never discussed by the media, mostly because Lee didn't like talking about it and he wasn't of (((a certain people)).

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  15. @Anonymous
    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @White Guy In Japan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden, @The King is A Fink, @e, @Forbes

    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @White Guy In Japan

    If I am ever caught burning it all down my widely compelling reason will be that, on ordering a martini, the waitress asks, what kind? Apple?

    Replies: @White Guy In Japan, @Mr. Anon

    , @Henry's Cat
    @White Guy In Japan

    Loud shirts, yes, loud food?

    , @27 year old
    @White Guy In Japan

    They do love that loud

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @White Guy In Japan


    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.
     
    There's something to this.

    Adult black men will order a fairly pricey Cognac to be mixed with flavored soda in flavors like orange or grape.

    I think the stereotype that black kids in the U.S. grow up on Kool-Aid is probably true and widespread, accounting for blacks favoring sickly sweet, strongly fruit flavored (and often with color to match) soft drinks and mixed drinks.

    It may not be genetic, because the male descendants of slaves in the Caribbean will drink things like overproof white rums which are somewhat dry and without fruiting them up too much.
    , @guest
    @White Guy In Japan

    They certainly talk loudly. And listen to loud music. And wear loud clothes.

  16. @Pat Casey
    Blacks love menthol cigarettes, which I find disgusting.

    Replies: @guest, @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

    Blacks love menthol cigarettes, which I find disgusting.

    The cigarettes, or the methol? It would seem to me that the former is a couple of orders of magnitude more disgusting than the latter.

    • LOL: Coemgen
  17. I would never touch grape soda (disgusting) in a million years. Schweppes Ginger ale or root beer for me and it’s rare anyhow.

  18. @Antlitz Grollheim
    @Anonymous

    Yea but Africans love fried chicken too.

    I always wondered, is the joy of a juicy steak a European thing? You don't see other races slobbering over slabs of beef like we do.

    Replies: @guest, @Anatoly Karlin, @jimmyriddle, @dearieme

    Even more of an Anglo/European colonies sort of thing – grilling slabs of beef is the sort of thing when you make only when you have more protein calories than you know what to do with.

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio – i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Steak is foreign to East European cuisine, where meats to come in stews, and all the organs I used. I think it’s the same for French cuisine, for Chinese cuisine, frankly for most cuisines so far as I can tell.

    I suspect that steak is something that the Japanese adopted from the Americans because it was cool and prestigious. Being Japanese they went on to make it better than their teachers (just as they did with Scotland/whiskey).

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Steak is pretty common Latin America, for the same reasons. Argentina and Brazil, of course, but even the "typical Colombian platter" at Colombian restaurants around here includes a piece of (tough sirloin, unless you upgrade) steak.

    Koreans eat plenty of beef too, but usually thinly sliced stuff they can eat with chopsticks - bulgogi, chaedol baegi, etc.

    Casual French restaurants in America usually have steak - they don't in France?

    Replies: @william munny, @Alden

    , @Jack D
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Grilled/roasted meat is found in some cuisines and not in others. Partly for reasons of cost (and sometimes religious reasons - Hindus/Buddhists) but also having to do with lifestyle. The climate in E. Europe for much of the year does not encourage outdoor grilling. Cooking and heating was traditionally done with the enclosed tile stove and not the open fireplace. Nor were ovens for roasting a normal feature of home kitchens. So the default method for cooking everything at home was simmering in a pot over low heat.

    French cuisine does feature steak (& frites) although I have the feeling that it is not particularly ancient (a lot of cuisine is more recent than you think - the New World crops of potatoes, tomatoes, corn and hot peppers really changed the entire global diet). Northern Italian (Tuscan) cuisine also feature grilled meat. As does that of many former British colonies - S. Africa, Australia. The British were known for their beef heavy diet. The nomadic cuisine of Central Asia is big on grilled meat but more often lamb than beef and cut in small bits (kebabs) so it will cook quickly on the limited available fuel.

    The Japanese diet traditionally did not include meat at all (for religious reasons) but after the Meiji restoration they made a conscious effort to Westernize and including meat in the diet was part of that. They knew that the Westerners had Magic Dirt and they wanted their dirt to be magic too, but they didn't really know what parts of the Western lifestyle gave you the magic powers. So just to be safe they imitated all of them.

    But cost was a big element for the poor in many countries. The cuisine of the poor rarely features big slabs of meat. If they have meat in their meal at all, it is a little bit of it mixed into a much larger quantity of vegetables.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Daniel Chieh, @Chrisnonymous

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I'm not sure where the idea that the Japanese eat "steak" comes from.

    As others have noted, they've adopted increased beef consumption. It's happened since they've become wealthy. Their beef is famous, but its quality mostly comes from the fact that they aren't afraid to eat fat.

    The amount of marbling in Japanese meat is unbelievable and unbelievably wonderful. (I've cooked steaks at home when I've had to pour off the fat rendering out in the middle of cooking, and the steak turns out crispy like a giant piece of bacon.)

    However, they rarely eat steak per se. I remember the first time I went to a steak restaurant here and ordered a filet. I was staring in literally open-mouthed disbelief when they brought me a platter of little pieces of cut up meat carefully arranged with garnish. Getting a big slab of red meat is quite foreign here.

    The most popular way to eat beef is a grilling style called "yakiniku" in which a variety of small pieces of different cuts of meat are grilled by the diner at his table. You can order a slab of beef at this kind of restaurant, but most Japanese will cut it into small pieces before serving it.

    Even in supermarkets, most of the beef is sold in small pieces for inclusion in hot pot dishes or to put over rice, etc.

    Basically, "slab steak" is foreign and exotic to any chopstick culture, including modern Japan.

    I think eating slabs of meat is a European thing that probably has origins in the style of fuel use/fire building. Perhaps it is directly related to the method of animal sacrifice in antiquity. I suspect that is an effect rather than a cause, but my impression is that slab meat is primarily a southern European and Anglo thing with its greatest flowering in the resource-rich New World. USA! USA! USA!

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    , @jeppo
    @Anatoly Karlin

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio – i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Argentina and Uruguay are the heart(attack?)land of steak culture.

    The Gaucho culture also follows the racial faultline in South America, with the Iberians and Italians concentrated in the ranching and grain farming temperate zone, and mestizos and mulattoes dominating the plantation-rich tropics. It divides the 'white steaklands' of Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul from the rest of Brazil.

    The Argies and Urugs used to eat more than 200 lbs of beef per capita/year, by far the most in the world, but they're now down to a lean 120 lbs or so.

    http://beef2live.com/story-world-beef-consumption-per-capita-ranking-countries-0-111634

    , @Joe Stalin
    @Anatoly Karlin

    African-Americans love Outback Steakhouse for some reason.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  19. Pizza man, 15+ years. They love Sprite.

    They *love* Sprite.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    @Bob Smith of Suburbia

    Lucky for Coca-Cola they never thought to call it Spook.

    , @Father O'Hara
    @Bob Smith of Suburbia

    Isn't that what they call white women , Sprites?

    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Bob Smith of Suburbia

    I think some of that may be due to the way Sprite is marketed. That "Obey Your Thirst" campaign that had going for a decade or two...I can scarcely imagine something which would alienate me more. I think it was somehow intended to appeal to Black people, however. I'm not really sure how (other than that most of the people who appeared in that advertising campaign were Black themselves).

  20. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Even more of an Anglo/European colonies sort of thing - grilling slabs of beef is the sort of thing when you make only when you have more protein calories than you know what to do with.

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio - i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Steak is foreign to East European cuisine, where meats to come in stews, and all the organs I used. I think it's the same for French cuisine, for Chinese cuisine, frankly for most cuisines so far as I can tell.

    I suspect that steak is something that the Japanese adopted from the Americans because it was cool and prestigious. Being Japanese they went on to make it better than their teachers (just as they did with Scotland/whiskey).

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous, @jeppo, @Joe Stalin

    Steak is pretty common Latin America, for the same reasons. Argentina and Brazil, of course, but even the “typical Colombian platter” at Colombian restaurants around here includes a piece of (tough sirloin, unless you upgrade) steak.

    Koreans eat plenty of beef too, but usually thinly sliced stuff they can eat with chopsticks – bulgogi, chaedol baegi, etc.

    Casual French restaurants in America usually have steak – they don’t in France?

    • Replies: @william munny
    @Dave Pinsen

    As a southern Euro outlier, the Portuguese restaurants all feature steaks too, at least in NJ. They may have brought that back from Brazil though.

    , @Alden
    @Dave Pinsen

    Steak and French fries with a little salad is on the menu of most French restaurants from freeway rest stop places to the most expensive

    It’s often on both lunch and dinner menus, small portions at lunch buffet at dinner.

    Replies: @Alden, @Dave Pinsen

  21. I never knew about blacks liking grape soda especially. I did know about menthol cigarettes and malt liquor and hot sauce (and calling pork rinds ‘skins’).

    I will say I don’t remember seeing much grape soda (or root beer or dr pepper style soda) in Europe… in Hungary they had elderberry flower flavored fanta (which was nice).

    Outside the UK beef isn’t as common as pork (or veal) and steaks aren’t that common or popular. Meat is mostly either stewed or breaded and fried.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @cliff arroyo

    Malt liquor is dirt cheap in gas stations. But weirdly way smoother than most beer.

    I'll take a Cobra to a Budweiser any day of the week.

    , @Anonymous
    @cliff arroyo

    Japanese hate root beer. It apparently tastes just like a particular brand of medicine to them. Except in Okinawa, where there are A&W shops. Okinawan and other Ryukyu Japanese are slightly different form mainland Japanese, genetically, and the dialect is pretty different, but I expect the root beer difference is simply from the influence of decades of American administration of Okinawa and the presence of all the military personnel from the U.S.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Jack D
    @cliff arroyo

    Fanta is a Nazi drink. I am not kidding. During WWII, the Coca Cola subsidiaries in Germany and Holland were cut off from their supplies of Coca-Cola flavoring imported from the US and had to invent local substitutes and a name for the substitute product. The Dutch ended up with elderberries because that was something that they had. The Germans used the leftover pressings from apple cider presses and whey which was a byproduct of cheese production.

    However the Hungarian version has a different origin - in E. Europe there is a traditional kind of fizzy soft drink (related to a true root or ginger beer) that is elderberry flavored. To make this stuff (or real root/ginger beer) you ferment lightly sugared water with yeast in a closed bottle along with the appropriate root or berry and the stuff self-carbonates from the CO2 produced by the yeast (the same reason champagne is fizzy). There is very little alcohol because it is only a little bit fermented - a lot of fermentables and the bottle would explode. Modern root beer/ginger ale/elderberry Fanta is just artificially carbonated water with flavored sugar syrup like any other soda.

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @cliff arroyo

    The Belgians do a mean beef in beer stew, as far as I know the only national dish that's required to be eaten with chips/fries.

    But different people, different tastes - sure. From the Icelandic fermented shark (hakarl?) to the "century egg" of China and the witchetty grubs of Australia. The Inuit have a dish of fermented little auks in sealskin (kiviak).

    http://www.meemalee.com/2010/12/hakarl-rotten-shark-worst-thing-i-have.html

    But a lot of that's related to what's available. The people on St Kilda, a remote island beyond the Hebrides, had a pretty Icelandic diet for centuries - fish and seabird being the most readily available food.

    Anonymous 7.58 - "real" Brit beer should be drunk cool but not chilled - cellar temperature. Of course a lot of Brits just drink chilled lager or worse, Bud Light.

  22. I suspect the main appeal of grape soda to African Americans is its sweetness. They tend to like very sweet drinks (coffee with several sugars in it, sweet iced tea, sweet mixed drinks like mudslides, etc.). I don’t know if that’s a result of southern heritage though.

    Untreated diabetics also often crave sweet drinks too, which might account for some percentage of this.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Dave Pinsen

    Sweet iced tea is a very very southern thing Whites and blacks love it.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave, I was the only white guy in an affirmative action office. On Fridays we would share a few drinks in the office...Johnny Walker over ice in a glass of milk ! That was a real WTF moment.

    Replies: @Alden, @Dave Pinsen

  23. Let’s be clear: grape flavor is not the same as flavored with grapes. Interestingly, the chemical used to flavor grape soft drinks, Methyl anthranilate, is used as a bird repellent.

  24. Took me a while to get Steve’s kick over the last few days regarding taste. Alcoholism is rampant on both sides of my family.

    The past two days I broke my abstinence of three months and downed about 10 margaritas and two tallboys of Corona beer.

    I’m going clean tomorrow again but every few months I gotta get smashed like this or I get anxiety attacks.

    I dunno the cause but I can drink cola…. mainly Pepsi like crack. I read once that when women get an obsession w lettuce it’s a symptom of certain types of breast cancer.

    I also guess this is a Southern thing…I eat salty boiled peanuts like meth & crack mixed up together. I dunno if they even sell these in other parts of the country but EVERY gas station in the South sells them. If you go to festivals or flea markets they sell them by the bag. They boil them up in big vats of salty water

    Closer you get to New Orleans the closer you’ll find Cajun boiled peanuts…..also like solid meth.

    People buys cans of them.

    No joke people eat them by the bucket….

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Neoconned

    Alcohol is only bad when working with machines. Those unlucky bastards who have to work with people should have alcohol in their system.

    , @Anonymous
    @Neoconned

    I love boiled peanuts! They are popular here in peanut producing districts of Japan, like Chiba. It's easier to boil up some peanuts than it is to roast them, if you have a bunch of raw peanuts. And peanuts are easy to grow. Just put a raw peanut in the ground, and wait a few months. There's a super-colossal sized peanut variety here in Japan that is perfect when boiled.

    Replies: @Neoconned

  25. @cliff arroyo
    I never knew about blacks liking grape soda especially. I did know about menthol cigarettes and malt liquor and hot sauce (and calling pork rinds 'skins').

    I will say I don't remember seeing much grape soda (or root beer or dr pepper style soda) in Europe... in Hungary they had elderberry flower flavored fanta (which was nice).

    Outside the UK beef isn't as common as pork (or veal) and steaks aren't that common or popular. Meat is mostly either stewed or breaded and fried.

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    Malt liquor is dirt cheap in gas stations. But weirdly way smoother than most beer.

    I’ll take a Cobra to a Budweiser any day of the week.

  26. Growing up in S Africa, I was used to seeing Fanta Grape at birthday parties, but that was whites. SA also has Schweppes Sparkling Grenadilla, which is another flavour you don’t get in the rest of the world.

    • Replies: @neutral
    @JimH


    SA also has Schweppes Sparkling Grenadilla, which is another flavour you don’t get in the rest of the world.
     
    Granadilla is commonly called passion fruit in many other places, so I am guessing this flavour exists in many places in the world, but I tend find that the Schweppes Granadilla is the best. The name is strange because it is Spanish derived and there was no Spanish presence in South African history. As you would now another unique drink, which is popular amongst the black population, is the creme soda that is green in colour, which some like to mix with spirits to create the "green mamba".

    While on the topic of soft drink trivia, Fanta was an invention of the Third Reich, after war with the USA started the supply of the Coca Cola syrup vanished, so they decided to create Fanta as an alternative. After the war Coca Cola claimed the rights to Fanta which find is a dubious legal claim.

    Replies: @Thea, @ScarletNumber

  27. It’s commonly asserted in Honduras that blacks happily eat food that is either too high in roughage or too spoiled for the native/spanish population. I find it interesting since Las Casas promoted the importation of African labor to Mexico because the native slaves were dying fast under the pressure.

    Also, it’s obvious in mouths like that of Tennessee Totes that a lot of blacks have a much larger biting and chewing apparatus.

  28. @Antlitz Grollheim
    @Anonymous

    Yea but Africans love fried chicken too.

    I always wondered, is the joy of a juicy steak a European thing? You don't see other races slobbering over slabs of beef like we do.

    Replies: @guest, @Anatoly Karlin, @jimmyriddle, @dearieme

    South Africans (regardless of race) love biltong. I think it originated with Khoisan hunter gatherers.

    The modern stuff uses nitrates in the curing process, so is a risk factor for bowel cancer.

  29. Kool Menthols

    • Replies: @nglaer
    @The Alarmist

    yeah, was about to mention this

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  30. @JimH
    Growing up in S Africa, I was used to seeing Fanta Grape at birthday parties, but that was whites. SA also has Schweppes Sparkling Grenadilla, which is another flavour you don't get in the rest of the world.

    Replies: @neutral

    SA also has Schweppes Sparkling Grenadilla, which is another flavour you don’t get in the rest of the world.

    Granadilla is commonly called passion fruit in many other places, so I am guessing this flavour exists in many places in the world, but I tend find that the Schweppes Granadilla is the best. The name is strange because it is Spanish derived and there was no Spanish presence in South African history. As you would now another unique drink, which is popular amongst the black population, is the creme soda that is green in colour, which some like to mix with spirits to create the “green mamba”.

    While on the topic of soft drink trivia, Fanta was an invention of the Third Reich, after war with the USA started the supply of the Coca Cola syrup vanished, so they decided to create Fanta as an alternative. After the war Coca Cola claimed the rights to Fanta which find is a dubious legal claim.

    • Replies: @Thea
    @neutral

    That is interesting. I never knew the history of Fanta. All the stranger it was the only soda available in the USSR for a time. Their vending machines would dispense it into a shared glass chained to the machine.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @neutral


    Fanta was an invention of the Third Reich
     
    I think you are misinterpreting things. Fanta was invented during the Third Reich, but not by it per se. Coca-Cola Germany couldn't get its hands on Coke syrup, so they invented Fanta. Once the war was over, the two branches were able to resume business with each other.

    After the war Coca Cola claimed the rights to Fanta which [I?] find is a dubious legal claim.
     
    The product the US stole from Germany is aspirin, but that was after World War I as reparations. Aspirin is still a registered trademark of Bayer in Canada, as is obvious by its packaging.

    http://www.mrsjanuary.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/aspirin.jpg
  31. @Stephen Marle
    Given all the weird things that genetic researchers ask their subjects, there may be data on this. Didn't they establish that a dislike of cilantro is genetic (if you have a fold on your earlobe and your left hand third finger is longer than your fourth)?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @TTSSYF, @slumber_j, @Kyle

    I hate cilantro. Tastes like soap.
    I find myself briefly in the People’s Republic of China on an ostensibly educational propaganda-tourism thing.
    A third of the otherwise indescribably delicious food has cilantro.
    I recall my now-dead elderly Indian neighbor serving me cold chutney, and my abnormally manly and diplomatic pretense of enjoyment.
    I recall my larval-otak desire to one day be a good fellow among conformity-prizing East Asians.
    I recall how much money I paid to be there.
    By the end of the trip I was okay with cilantro. I don’t seek it out, I cannot understand why lemongrass isn’t bigger, but cilantro no longer tastes like soap to me. Scientific postscript: my sister (still) hates cilantro.

    • Replies: @Stephen Marle
    @J.Ross

    I feel the same way about mayonnaise.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @J.Ross

    I need to find that study but it found that English visitors to Greece, who had fundamentally different gut flora and diets from the Greek population nonetheless had their gut flora altered to mostly resemble the surrounding population by the third month of their stay.

    I imagine that adjustment to environment may have impact on taste as well.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  32. @Dave Pinsen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Steak is pretty common Latin America, for the same reasons. Argentina and Brazil, of course, but even the "typical Colombian platter" at Colombian restaurants around here includes a piece of (tough sirloin, unless you upgrade) steak.

    Koreans eat plenty of beef too, but usually thinly sliced stuff they can eat with chopsticks - bulgogi, chaedol baegi, etc.

    Casual French restaurants in America usually have steak - they don't in France?

    Replies: @william munny, @Alden

    As a southern Euro outlier, the Portuguese restaurants all feature steaks too, at least in NJ. They may have brought that back from Brazil though.

  33. @Neoconned
    Took me a while to get Steve's kick over the last few days regarding taste. Alcoholism is rampant on both sides of my family.

    The past two days I broke my abstinence of three months and downed about 10 margaritas and two tallboys of Corona beer.

    I'm going clean tomorrow again but every few months I gotta get smashed like this or I get anxiety attacks.

    I dunno the cause but I can drink cola.... mainly Pepsi like crack. I read once that when women get an obsession w lettuce it's a symptom of certain types of breast cancer.

    I also guess this is a Southern thing...I eat salty boiled peanuts like meth & crack mixed up together. I dunno if they even sell these in other parts of the country but EVERY gas station in the South sells them. If you go to festivals or flea markets they sell them by the bag. They boil them up in big vats of salty water

    Closer you get to New Orleans the closer you'll find Cajun boiled peanuts.....also like solid meth.

    People buys cans of them.

    http://www.thepressboxradio.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Peanut-Patch-Can1.jpg

    No joke people eat them by the bucket....

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Anonymous

    Alcohol is only bad when working with machines. Those unlucky bastards who have to work with people should have alcohol in their system.

  34. @White Guy In Japan
    @Anonymous

    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Henry's Cat, @27 year old, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @guest

    If I am ever caught burning it all down my widely compelling reason will be that, on ordering a martini, the waitress asks, what kind? Apple?

    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    @J.Ross

    No man should drink any cocktail that is green. Or purple. Or with more than two ingredients.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    , @Mr. Anon
    @J.Ross


    If I am ever caught burning it all down my widely compelling reason will be that, on ordering a martini, the waitress asks, what kind? Apple?
     
    Aye. Or being asked "What kind of Vodka do you want?", or, if you stipulate that you want olives, being asked "You want that dirty?"

    Gin. Vermouth. Olives. What is so difficult to grasp about that? This is the recipe for the platonic ideal of "Martini".

    Replies: @MBlanc46

  35. Fabrice Fabrice, a stand-up comedian notable for actually being funny:

    You know who loves fried chicken? Black people. You know who else loves fried chicken? EVERYBODY.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    @J.Ross

    Melted cheese is another lowest common denominator food.

    , @AndrewR
    @J.Ross

    I detest fried food in general. It makes me feel like absolute trash. I like food that makes me feel healthy and strong, and fried foods are the opposite of that. Not to mention, they really are not healthful; frying foods pollutes the air; and cooking oil is a fire/burn hazard and is aggravating to dispose of. I literally cannot comprehend why anyone fries food in our modern society.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Pericles, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous

    , @üeljang
    @J.Ross

    There is a difference between liking fried chicken and loving it to the extent that you would prefer it over any other choice of food.

    I do not detest the stuff myself, but I would rather not eat it every single day of the week, which is something that I cannot say for many of my Nipponese friends judging by their culinary selections.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @J.Ross

    Indeed. Who doesn't like a fried chicken tender? Really?

    "Fabrice Fabrice, a stand-up comedian notable for actually being funny:"

    They still have those?

    Replies: @J.Ross

  36. @Bob Smith of Suburbia
    Pizza man, 15+ years. They love Sprite.

    They *love* Sprite.

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @Father O'Hara, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Lucky for Coca-Cola they never thought to call it Spook.

  37. @Stephen Marle
    Given all the weird things that genetic researchers ask their subjects, there may be data on this. Didn't they establish that a dislike of cilantro is genetic (if you have a fold on your earlobe and your left hand third finger is longer than your fourth)?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @TTSSYF, @slumber_j, @Kyle

    I used to not like cilantro but, one day, in a particular meal, found that I did. I now love cilantro and always order extra when it comes on a meal at a restaurant. You should give it a try. It’s an acquired taste.

  38. @J.Ross
    Fabrice Fabrice, a stand-up comedian notable for actually being funny:

    You know who loves fried chicken? Black people. You know who else loves fried chicken? EVERYBODY.
     

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @üeljang, @Mr. Anon

    Melted cheese is another lowest common denominator food.

  39. @White Guy In Japan
    @Anonymous

    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Henry's Cat, @27 year old, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @guest

    Loud shirts, yes, loud food?

  40. @Stephen Marle
    Given all the weird things that genetic researchers ask their subjects, there may be data on this. Didn't they establish that a dislike of cilantro is genetic (if you have a fold on your earlobe and your left hand third finger is longer than your fourth)?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @TTSSYF, @slumber_j, @Kyle

    You beat me to it, but yes.

    Also: the business where asparagus makes your urine smell funny has a double-barrel genetic basis. Some people’s urine doesn’t smell funny after they eat asparagus, and some people’s does smell funny but they can’t tell. And taste is mostly smell after all.

    Speaking of which, I’ve tried to find other people over the years who detect the smell of raw silk as I do: I remember standing in a sunny group once waiting to board an airplane outside and suddenly being hammered by the smell, distinctive and nutty. I remarked to my wife that someone must be wearing raw silk in the vicinity, and then spotted the source sweater maybe six feet away. Informal polling reveals that few people even know what I’m talking about.

    • Replies: @Miss Laura
    @slumber_j

    Yes, and thank you, from one who loves the look of raw silk but hates the smell, though now that I'm old I can't smell it as strong and don't care so much about fashion.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @slumber_j

    Black people think white people smell like wet dog. I'm sure Steve's vast black readership will be by soon to confirm.

  41. The reason people would evolve a strong craving for (sweet) energy dense food isn’t too much of a mystery.

    Its possible the racial difference isn’t in the enjoyment, but rather the tendency to overindulge. For instance, not many White people object to some soda. Grape and Orange soda are both delicious. But Whites are possibly more able to stop at one can, and feel diminishing returns.

    There is a clear racial disparity in Diabetes.

  42. @slumber_j
    @Stephen Marle

    You beat me to it, but yes.

    Also: the business where asparagus makes your urine smell funny has a double-barrel genetic basis. Some people's urine doesn't smell funny after they eat asparagus, and some people's does smell funny but they can't tell. And taste is mostly smell after all.

    Speaking of which, I've tried to find other people over the years who detect the smell of raw silk as I do: I remember standing in a sunny group once waiting to board an airplane outside and suddenly being hammered by the smell, distinctive and nutty. I remarked to my wife that someone must be wearing raw silk in the vicinity, and then spotted the source sweater maybe six feet away. Informal polling reveals that few people even know what I'm talking about.

    Replies: @Miss Laura, @ScarletNumber

    Yes, and thank you, from one who loves the look of raw silk but hates the smell, though now that I’m old I can’t smell it as strong and don’t care so much about fashion.

  43. The pregunta of Mexicans: Got sauce?
    Por supuesto, by sauce I mean hot sauce!
    The sauce of the pepper
    Make everything better,
    From chow mein to sopa de matzos.

  44. > America, with its hot summers compared to Europe, had more refrigeration earlier than the rest of the world

    citation?

    > Aussies invented refrigeration

    i’ll mention your claim, to William Cullen

  45. One way to do this is to look at genes known to influence taste. Here’s a few that influences the ability to taste bitterness:

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs713598
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs10246939
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1726866

    The general pattern according to the SNPedia population frequencies is that Europeans and (Guajarati) Indians tend to be the least bitter-sensitive. East Africans and East Asians tend to be the most bitter sensitive. West Africans and Mexicans fall in the middle.

    SNPedia also has a cilantro specific gene, but no population data. Another gene that might influence food preference, without directly affecting taste, is TaqIA. This gene influences the number of dopamine binding sites. People who are homozygous tend to prefer stronger, more sensuous experiences. Having fewer dopamine centers means you need stronger stimuli to feet satiated. (E.g. DDR2 is a risk factor for drug addiction, alcoholism and smoking.)

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1800497

    Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food.

    • Replies: @Avalanche
    @Doug

    "People who are homozygous tend to prefer stronger, more sensuous experiences."

    "Prefer" them or are overwhelmed by them and avoid some stronger/sensuous experiences and madly seek out others? I'm what the Monel Chemical Lab in Philly calls a supertaster -- many many foods make me gag or choke or spit them out. Others make me crave and revel in them. (Oh! vanilla, butter, and cinnamon -- fill me a BATHTUB!!)

    And it's not, seemingly, a matter of "hates bitter, likes sweet": BOTH have their own Bell Curve. I ADORE unsweetened grapefruit, recoil in disgust from anything vinegar; LOVE strawberries, seriously dislike most sweet fruits.

    (Or I could just be: "on the spectrum." HATEHATEHATE itchy fabric, LOVE (stroke, pet) velour... {shrug})

    , @Sunbeam
    @Doug

    "Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food."

    Interesting. But what possible survival advantage could this kind of trait confer, even in the European environment when such things originated?

    Just seems to me it would have been neutral, unlike something like lactose tolerance.

    Anyone got any theories on the utility of "needing stronger stimuli to feel satiated?" Dunno, maybe you darn well better eat all that mammoth while you can, no idea when you will get another? As opposed to an environment where food is easier to come by?

    , @Dmitry
    @Doug


    Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food.

     

    And yet - to take one famous example - in the United Kingdom, Indian restaurants (whose food is the opposite of bland taste) are historically one of the most popular types of restaurant.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8370054.stm

    , @res
    @Doug

    Thanks for the information! That dopamine binding site SNP is interesting.

    This 2015 study looks at the evolution of taste SNPs and their population frequencies in 1000 Genomes: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep12349

    Abstract:


    Despite recent advances in the knowledge of interindividual taste differences, the underlying genetic backgrounds have remained to be fully elucidated. Much of the taste variation among different mammalian species can be explained by pseudogenization of taste receptors. Here I investigated whether the most recent disruptions of taste receptor genes segregate with their intact forms in modern humans by analyzing 14 ethnically diverse populations. The results revealed an unprecedented prevalence of 25 segregating loss-of-function (LoF) taste receptor variants, identifying one of the most pronounced cases of functional population diversity in the human genome. LoF variant frequency in taste receptors (2.10%) was considerably higher than the overall LoF frequency in human genome (0.16%). In particular, molecular evolutionary rates of candidate sour (14.7%) and bitter (1.8%) receptors were far higher in humans than those of sweet (0.02%), salty (0.05%), and umami (0.17%) receptors compared with other carnivorous mammals, although not all of the taste receptors were identified. Many LoF variants are population-specific, some of which arose even after population differentiation, not before divergence of the modern and archaic human. I conclude that modern humans might have been losing some sour and bitter receptor genes because of high-frequency LoF variants.
     
  46. @guest
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Hello! Japan does, to the extent that they grow the toppest of top selections for whities.

    But they also like baseball, which I find suspicious. Maybe MacArthur forced it on them.

    Replies: @njguy73, @Foreign Expert, @William Badwhite, @whorefinder

    But they also like baseball, which I find suspicious. Maybe MacArthur forced it on them.

    No. Baseball was first introduced to Japan as a school sport in 1872 by American Horace Wilson, an English professor at the Kaisei Academy in Tokyo. The first organized adult baseball team, called the Shimbashi Athletic Club, was established in 1878.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_in_Japan#History

    From 1908, several United States professional teams toured Japan and played against amateur teams made up mostly of university students, including both the Chicago White Sox and the New York Giants in 1913…The American Major League Baseball outfielder Lefty O’Doul was instrumental in spreading baseball’s popularity in Japan, serving as the sport’s goodwill ambassador before and after World War II….

    …and by 1936, the seven-team Japan Occupational Baseball League was formed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_baseball_in_Japan#Early_attempts

  47. @J.Ross
    @White Guy In Japan

    If I am ever caught burning it all down my widely compelling reason will be that, on ordering a martini, the waitress asks, what kind? Apple?

    Replies: @White Guy In Japan, @Mr. Anon

    No man should drink any cocktail that is green. Or purple. Or with more than two ingredients.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @White Guy In Japan

    Not even a Manhattan?!

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @White Guy In Japan

    Martini:

    Gin
    Vermouth
    Olive/lemon
    Water

    4 ingredients? Must reject!

    Replies: @J.Ross, @MBlanc46

    , @MBlanc46
    @White Guy In Japan

    If a Negroni counts as purple, I must respectfully disagree.

  48. Beverages are very culturally idiosyncratic. In Salvadoran, Indian, or Vietnamese restaurants I like most of the food and dislike most of the drinks. Sometimes I’ll still try an horchata with my pupusas and maybe drink half. “Is it any good?” my wife asks. “No, but it’s interesting. Want some?” The first few times I drank mate in Argentina, I thought, “This tastes like I’m mowing the lawn.” Foreigners dislike root beer and say it tastes like medicine, although they may have it backwards: When I first had birch beer in Pennsylvannia it seemed I had found the flavor that the makers of Pepto-Bismol were striving for to make their stuff palatable; it was as if the only artificial cherry flavor I knew was from cough drops, and then I tried a snow cone.

  49. @The Alarmist
    Kool Menthols

    Replies: @nglaer

    yeah, was about to mention this

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @nglaer

    The fuller list (I heard this from a black kid I went to a city school with):

    "I'm gonna get me a Colt 45, a pack of Kool Menthols, an some Juicyfruit."

    He was all of thirteen, but damned if he didn't score all three at the local corner store. These tastes start young.

  50. @J.Ross
    Fabrice Fabrice, a stand-up comedian notable for actually being funny:

    You know who loves fried chicken? Black people. You know who else loves fried chicken? EVERYBODY.
     

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @üeljang, @Mr. Anon

    I detest fried food in general. It makes me feel like absolute trash. I like food that makes me feel healthy and strong, and fried foods are the opposite of that. Not to mention, they really are not healthful; frying foods pollutes the air; and cooking oil is a fire/burn hazard and is aggravating to dispose of. I literally cannot comprehend why anyone fries food in our modern society.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @AndrewR

    If you're out doing manual labor in the fields all day then you need all the fried food you can get. The fattier the better. For you this is health food. Fat is only harmful to people with sedentary lives.

    , @Pericles
    @AndrewR


    I literally cannot comprehend why anyone fries food in our modern society.

     

    Because it's there.
    , @Jack D
    @AndrewR

    Your perception of what is "healthy" is based on what you have been told, which may or may not be right. Dietary advice keeps shifting. And the dose makes the poison - a piece of fried chicken now and then is not going to kill you. If frying is done properly then the oil does not stay in the food. Because frying renders out the fat from the chicken skin, a piece of fried chicken might have less fat in it that a piece of chicken prepared by another method (not that the fat is necessarily bad for you). If you are having fried chicken with a Coke and a biscuit , the fried chicken is not the problem.

    My wife has the same repulsion to fried foods but she likes a piece of cake now and then and regards cake as yummy, not repulsive like fried food. I keep pointing out to her that a piece of frosted cake has WAY more fat in it than a piece of fried chicken (not to mention that the cake has sugar) but it's on a completely irrational level.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @AndrewR

    How people feel after eating is influenced a lot by psychology. For example, my girlfriend will feel nauseous if she can "feel" oil in food, but she happily eats potato chips.

    That said, your description sounds like cheap fried food. Properly done with quality oil, frying is not polluting.

  51. @J.Ross
    Fabrice Fabrice, a stand-up comedian notable for actually being funny:

    You know who loves fried chicken? Black people. You know who else loves fried chicken? EVERYBODY.
     

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @üeljang, @Mr. Anon

    There is a difference between liking fried chicken and loving it to the extent that you would prefer it over any other choice of food.

    I do not detest the stuff myself, but I would rather not eat it every single day of the week, which is something that I cannot say for many of my Nipponese friends judging by their culinary selections.

  52. @Anon
    Aussies invented refrigeration.
    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/01/australias-top-10-inventions-refrigeration/
    The Kiwis were the first to fly.
    http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html
    You Seppos are as useless as tits on a bull.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Kylie, @William Badwhite

    I like your joke about Kiwis flying. But your serious point dashed my hopes. I had thought that among the myriad bogus claims of American “firsts” that at least the one about the Wright Brothers was true.

  53. @Antlitz Grollheim
    @Anonymous

    Yea but Africans love fried chicken too.

    I always wondered, is the joy of a juicy steak a European thing? You don't see other races slobbering over slabs of beef like we do.

    Replies: @guest, @Anatoly Karlin, @jimmyriddle, @dearieme

    “is the joy of a juicy steak a European thing?” I though it was more an American thing. God knows why; their steaks aren’t particularly good.

  54. @guest
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Hello! Japan does, to the extent that they grow the toppest of top selections for whities.

    But they also like baseball, which I find suspicious. Maybe MacArthur forced it on them.

    Replies: @njguy73, @Foreign Expert, @William Badwhite, @whorefinder

    Baseball was popular in japan before the war. I think Babe Ruth toured japan.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Foreign Expert

    As did Moe Berg, as previously discussed this week.

  55. Crass people have crass tastes. What is the correlation between liking grape soda and listening to hip hop? Probably pretty high, among whites and blacks both.

    As Ruskin noted, “good taste is essentially a moral quality.” I’m not sure he was right. But there’s something to it at any rate.

  56. Grape soda is popular among southern whites more than among whites in other regions.

    Ice tea preference is regional as well. Southerners are famous for their sweet tea but instant powdered iced tea is a hit in Pittsbugh but almost no where else.

  57. More Ruskin.

    Permit me, therefore, to fortify this old dogma of mine somewhat. Taste is not only a part and an index of morality: it is the only morality. The first, and last, and closest trial question to any living creature is, “What do you like?” Tell me what you like and I’ll tell you what you are. Go out into the street and ask the first man or woman you meet what their “taste” is. If they answer candidly, you know them, body and soul. “You, my friend in the rags, with the unsteady gait, what do you like?” “A pipe, and a quartern of gin.” I know you. “You, good woman, with the quick step and tidy bonnet, what do you like?” “A swept hearth, and a clean tea table, my husband opposite me, and a baby at my breast.” Good, I know you also. “You, little girl with the golden hair and the soft eyes, what do you like?” “My canary, and a run among the wood hyacinths.” “You, little boy with the dirty hands, and the low forehead, what do you like?” “A shy at the sparrows!…” Good. We know them all now. What more need we ask?

    Updated for the current year:

    “You, my friend Trayvon, skulking through the housing development. What do you like?” “Some skittles and drank.” I know you. “You, young Makayla, editor of the Mary Sue. What do you like?” “I like organically grown and locally sourced Ethiopian food, and social justice.” I know you also.

  58. Judging from soda, I would guess nurture easily trumps nature. Americans, including Americans of German descent, love root beer. Most Germans find root beer disgusting. Poles are not big fans of Coke but Polish Americans love Coke as much as any other Americans do. Americans of European descent love peanut butter, Europeans don’t. Although increasingly (maybe from the influence of Thai food?) I’ve noticed a far greater tolerance for peanut butter in Europe than 30 years ago.

    Class divisions also suggest a heavy nurture influence. White and black poor people in the US have pretty similar tastes in food – high in sugar and fat. No one is born appreciating a fine bordeaux or wanting to eat stinky cheese. You need to be carefully taught.

    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I find that went I eat barbeque, I crave root beer with it, like milk pairing with a peanut butter sandwich.

    , @Stan Adams
    @Peter Akuleyev

    An American's notes on his homeland's trashy food:

    * I don't like root beer, unless it's in a cup with vanilla ice cream.
    * I drink far too much Coke. (That would be Coca-Cola Classic, and not Pepsi-Cola.) I hate Diet Coke.
    * I'm not overly wild about peanut butter, but I do like Reese's peanut-butter cups.
    * For Christmas, someone gave me a "Slice of Joy" gift card from The Cheesecake Factory. (The card came free with a cake she ordered.) I redeemed it for a slice of Reese's Peanut Butter Cup cheesecake.
    * I loathe ranch dressing.
    * My comfort sandwich is a turkey-and-Swiss melt on a croissant with mustard. My comfort breakfast is scrambled eggs with corned beef hash.
    * I like Italian food. My family is not Italian, but when I was a kid both my mother and my grandmother made spaghetti with meat sauce at least once a week. (My mother's was tastier, but both dishes were dear to my heart.) My mother made lasagna maybe once or twice a month.
    * Other staples were meatloaf, roast beef, and grilled chicken. My grandmother made beef stew with potatoes and carrots every other week.
    * My mother's quick-and-dirty dish was "cheesy casserole" (au Gratin potatoes with hamburger meat). Every now and then, she swapped the potatoes for macaroni and cheese.
    * Between mashed potatoes and rice, I go with rice every time. My grandmother always served her roast beef with yellow rice and sweet peas (or green beans). Even if everyone else was eating mashed potatoes, she always made sure that I had my yellow rice.
    * If I have to eat mashed potatoes, I'll mix them with the meat.
    * Like Trump, I like my meat well-done. A medium-rare steak is okay if I'm in the mood, but a burger with blood (or whatever that red stuff is) seeping into the bun makes me want to gag.
    * I order a burger well-done with cheese (Swiss, cheddar, or *one slice* of American), lettuce, onions, ketchup, and mustard. I don't like tomatoes or pickles. If a pickle is on my plate, I will wipe the pickle juice off the plate before I start eating.
    * I always dip; I never pour. When I see folks pouring ketchup all over their fries and licking the ketchup off their fingers, I feel ill. (I *never* lick food off my fingers. If my fingers start to get messy, I immediately reach for the nearest napkin.)
    * I don't like cheese fries.
    * Between plain fries and seasoned, I go with seasoned. Among fast-food chains, Checkers' fries are the best, followed by Arby's; Burger King's are the worst. The seasoned red-skinned potatoes at Denny's are always good.
    * I butter my bread evenly.
    * Between apple, blueberry, and cherry pies, I go with cherry first, then apple.
    * Between vanilla and chocolate ice cream, I tend to go with vanilla.
    * The last time I went to Dairy Queen, I had an Oreo Blizzard.
    * The last time I went to Subway, I had a meatball sub, toasted, on Italian-herbs-and-cheese bread with provolone cheese, lettuce, onions, and black olives.
    * The last time I went to McDonald's, I had the "buttermilk" chicken strips. They were so tough that I could barely chew them. (Chick-fil-A has the best chicken strips. The ones at KFC aren't bad.) I ate one or two fries and then threw the rest in the trash. (They were too salty. Sometimes I like salty fries, but on that day I couldn't stomach them.)
    * The last time I went to Burger King, I had a plain Whopper with lettuce and onions. It was not bad, for what it was. I ate one or two fries and then threw the rest in the trash. (They were too mealy.)
    * The last time I went to Wendy's, I had a double. It was as good as a Wendy's double could be. I ate most of the fries. (They weren't great, but I was hungry.)
    * The last time I went to Taco Bell, I had a chicken quesadilla. It was so-so. The quesadilla came with one crunchy taco, also so-so.
    * I don't like burritos.
    * The other day, I bought a box of Girl Scout cookies - Thin Mints - for $4. The box seemed smaller than it had in years past, but maybe not.

    If there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  59. @neutral
    @JimH


    SA also has Schweppes Sparkling Grenadilla, which is another flavour you don’t get in the rest of the world.
     
    Granadilla is commonly called passion fruit in many other places, so I am guessing this flavour exists in many places in the world, but I tend find that the Schweppes Granadilla is the best. The name is strange because it is Spanish derived and there was no Spanish presence in South African history. As you would now another unique drink, which is popular amongst the black population, is the creme soda that is green in colour, which some like to mix with spirits to create the "green mamba".

    While on the topic of soft drink trivia, Fanta was an invention of the Third Reich, after war with the USA started the supply of the Coca Cola syrup vanished, so they decided to create Fanta as an alternative. After the war Coca Cola claimed the rights to Fanta which find is a dubious legal claim.

    Replies: @Thea, @ScarletNumber

    That is interesting. I never knew the history of Fanta. All the stranger it was the only soda available in the USSR for a time. Their vending machines would dispense it into a shared glass chained to the machine.

  60. A lot of it is culture and regional. Poor, rural Southerns of both races ate pork and chicken because hogs and chickens do a lot better on small farms than cattle. Neither takes up much space and both can forage or eat scraps both from the farm and the kitchen table. You fry food because you have lots of lard from slaughtering the hogs. If you are lucky you can add some catfish or wild game to the menu. You ate a whole lot more corn meal than you did flour.
    The only seasonings they had were salt, pork and onion.

    Everyone ate watermelon, white or black it did not matter.

    My grandfather’s place had a smokehouse, a chicken coop, and an outhouse. He grew a large garden and acres of corn. I have looked at old census forms from the 30’s and 40’s and some years his reported cash earnings for the year were under $1000.

  61. @nglaer
    @The Alarmist

    yeah, was about to mention this

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    The fuller list (I heard this from a black kid I went to a city school with):

    “I’m gonna get me a Colt 45, a pack of Kool Menthols, an some Juicyfruit.”

    He was all of thirteen, but damned if he didn’t score all three at the local corner store. These tastes start young.

  62. @J.Ross
    @White Guy In Japan

    If I am ever caught burning it all down my widely compelling reason will be that, on ordering a martini, the waitress asks, what kind? Apple?

    Replies: @White Guy In Japan, @Mr. Anon

    If I am ever caught burning it all down my widely compelling reason will be that, on ordering a martini, the waitress asks, what kind? Apple?

    Aye. Or being asked “What kind of Vodka do you want?”, or, if you stipulate that you want olives, being asked “You want that dirty?”

    Gin. Vermouth. Olives. What is so difficult to grasp about that? This is the recipe for the platonic ideal of “Martini”.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    @Mr. Anon

    Vermouth, or the thought of vermouth, at least.

  63. @J.Ross
    Fabrice Fabrice, a stand-up comedian notable for actually being funny:

    You know who loves fried chicken? Black people. You know who else loves fried chicken? EVERYBODY.
     

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @AndrewR, @üeljang, @Mr. Anon

    Indeed. Who doesn’t like a fried chicken tender? Really?

    “Fabrice Fabrice, a stand-up comedian notable for actually being funny:”

    They still have those?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Mr. Anon

    It was years ago, when I had a TV, on a bizarrely consistently funny show hosted by -- are you ready for this -- John Oliver. Part of him must hate that he has to do the same terrorism-denying Trump-hating chant every night to the same audience.

  64. weak white people cannot eat spicy food

  65. @Doug
    One way to do this is to look at genes known to influence taste. Here's a few that influences the ability to taste bitterness:

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs713598
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs10246939
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1726866

    The general pattern according to the SNPedia population frequencies is that Europeans and (Guajarati) Indians tend to be the least bitter-sensitive. East Africans and East Asians tend to be the most bitter sensitive. West Africans and Mexicans fall in the middle.

    SNPedia also has a cilantro specific gene, but no population data. Another gene that might influence food preference, without directly affecting taste, is TaqIA. This gene influences the number of dopamine binding sites. People who are homozygous tend to prefer stronger, more sensuous experiences. Having fewer dopamine centers means you need stronger stimuli to feet satiated. (E.g. DDR2 is a risk factor for drug addiction, alcoholism and smoking.)

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1800497

    Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food.

    Replies: @Avalanche, @Sunbeam, @Dmitry, @res

    “People who are homozygous tend to prefer stronger, more sensuous experiences.”

    “Prefer” them or are overwhelmed by them and avoid some stronger/sensuous experiences and madly seek out others? I’m what the Monel Chemical Lab in Philly calls a supertaster — many many foods make me gag or choke or spit them out. Others make me crave and revel in them. (Oh! vanilla, butter, and cinnamon — fill me a BATHTUB!!)

    And it’s not, seemingly, a matter of “hates bitter, likes sweet”: BOTH have their own Bell Curve. I ADORE unsweetened grapefruit, recoil in disgust from anything vinegar; LOVE strawberries, seriously dislike most sweet fruits.

    (Or I could just be: “on the spectrum.” HATEHATEHATE itchy fabric, LOVE (stroke, pet) velour… {shrug})

  66. Europeans will often go on at great length about the evils of ice cold drinks. It is not enough that they don’t like them, they must inform you why they are unhealthy (which they aren’t).

  67. Back in the 90s, I had a Black co-worker that claimed the most popular soda in her LA hood was Big Red. Big Red was bright red and super sweet, second only to Inca Cola for sweetness (your taste may vary).

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Big_Red_(drink)

  68. @J.Ross
    @Stephen Marle

    I hate cilantro. Tastes like soap.
    I find myself briefly in the People's Republic of China on an ostensibly educational propaganda-tourism thing.
    A third of the otherwise indescribably delicious food has cilantro.
    I recall my now-dead elderly Indian neighbor serving me cold chutney, and my abnormally manly and diplomatic pretense of enjoyment.
    I recall my larval-otak desire to one day be a good fellow among conformity-prizing East Asians.
    I recall how much money I paid to be there.
    By the end of the trip I was okay with cilantro. I don't seek it out, I cannot understand why lemongrass isn't bigger, but cilantro no longer tastes like soap to me. Scientific postscript: my sister (still) hates cilantro.

    Replies: @Stephen Marle, @Daniel Chieh

    I feel the same way about mayonnaise.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Stephen Marle

    You should, it's feces with only the color improved, and the flavor payoff is negligible for all that awful texture. However, if you can find an authentic Dutch or Belgian restaurant that makes their own in-house, try it, especially if they have a curry variety. The stuff on the grocery store shelf is not the real thing.

  69. Anyone heard of any progress on finding the Mountain Dew gene?

    I’m a carrier, even though i’m not more that 1/16th Scots-Irish. (Maybe the Irish can carry it too?)

    • Replies: @guest
    @AnotherDad

    My father had Mountain Dew-mania, but only for a limited number of years.

    He was also addicted to at different times:

    Merit cigarettes
    Windsor Canadian whiskey
    Pinwheels
    Bacon crackers
    Chicken in a Biscuit crackers
    Sam Cooke, Patsy Cline, the Righteous Brothers, and the soundtrack to Titanic

    Replies: @Chris Mallory

  70. @White Guy In Japan
    @Anonymous

    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Henry's Cat, @27 year old, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @guest

    They do love that loud

  71. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @cliff arroyo
    I never knew about blacks liking grape soda especially. I did know about menthol cigarettes and malt liquor and hot sauce (and calling pork rinds 'skins').

    I will say I don't remember seeing much grape soda (or root beer or dr pepper style soda) in Europe... in Hungary they had elderberry flower flavored fanta (which was nice).

    Outside the UK beef isn't as common as pork (or veal) and steaks aren't that common or popular. Meat is mostly either stewed or breaded and fried.

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    Japanese hate root beer. It apparently tastes just like a particular brand of medicine to them. Except in Okinawa, where there are A&W shops. Okinawan and other Ryukyu Japanese are slightly different form mainland Japanese, genetically, and the dialect is pretty different, but I expect the root beer difference is simply from the influence of decades of American administration of Okinawa and the presence of all the military personnel from the U.S.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Anonymous

    In my experience, Germans hate root beer and think it tastes like toothpaste. Probably cultural. They drink a lot of Fanta, and it is very sweet.

  72. @anonymous coward

    The American love of cold drinks is indicative of the U.S.’s traditionally high standard of living.
     
    No it isn't. It's just a bizarre and senseless historical artifact. People in USA and Mexico put ice in their drinks, which sounds insane to people in Germany or Russia. Germany certainly has a higher standard of living than Mexico.

    (Russians still drink their vodka chilled, and there's not a lack of cold in Russia. The relationship between living standards and cold seems suspect.)

    Replies: @Anonym, @anonymous

    I haven’t been to Russia but I would guess that it’s significantly cooler in the summer than the USA or Mexico. On a hot day ice will keep a drink cool and refreshing.

  73. @Doug
    One way to do this is to look at genes known to influence taste. Here's a few that influences the ability to taste bitterness:

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs713598
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs10246939
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1726866

    The general pattern according to the SNPedia population frequencies is that Europeans and (Guajarati) Indians tend to be the least bitter-sensitive. East Africans and East Asians tend to be the most bitter sensitive. West Africans and Mexicans fall in the middle.

    SNPedia also has a cilantro specific gene, but no population data. Another gene that might influence food preference, without directly affecting taste, is TaqIA. This gene influences the number of dopamine binding sites. People who are homozygous tend to prefer stronger, more sensuous experiences. Having fewer dopamine centers means you need stronger stimuli to feet satiated. (E.g. DDR2 is a risk factor for drug addiction, alcoholism and smoking.)

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1800497

    Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food.

    Replies: @Avalanche, @Sunbeam, @Dmitry, @res

    “Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food.”

    Interesting. But what possible survival advantage could this kind of trait confer, even in the European environment when such things originated?

    Just seems to me it would have been neutral, unlike something like lactose tolerance.

    Anyone got any theories on the utility of “needing stronger stimuli to feel satiated?” Dunno, maybe you darn well better eat all that mammoth while you can, no idea when you will get another? As opposed to an environment where food is easier to come by?

  74. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Neoconned
    Took me a while to get Steve's kick over the last few days regarding taste. Alcoholism is rampant on both sides of my family.

    The past two days I broke my abstinence of three months and downed about 10 margaritas and two tallboys of Corona beer.

    I'm going clean tomorrow again but every few months I gotta get smashed like this or I get anxiety attacks.

    I dunno the cause but I can drink cola.... mainly Pepsi like crack. I read once that when women get an obsession w lettuce it's a symptom of certain types of breast cancer.

    I also guess this is a Southern thing...I eat salty boiled peanuts like meth & crack mixed up together. I dunno if they even sell these in other parts of the country but EVERY gas station in the South sells them. If you go to festivals or flea markets they sell them by the bag. They boil them up in big vats of salty water

    Closer you get to New Orleans the closer you'll find Cajun boiled peanuts.....also like solid meth.

    People buys cans of them.

    http://www.thepressboxradio.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Peanut-Patch-Can1.jpg

    No joke people eat them by the bucket....

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Anonymous

    I love boiled peanuts! They are popular here in peanut producing districts of Japan, like Chiba. It’s easier to boil up some peanuts than it is to roast them, if you have a bunch of raw peanuts. And peanuts are easy to grow. Just put a raw peanut in the ground, and wait a few months. There’s a super-colossal sized peanut variety here in Japan that is perfect when boiled.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @Anonymous

    http://images.morris.com/images/athens/mdControlled/cms/2009/06/03/446383992.jpg

    I have memories as a child of going to festivals or fairs with my grandfather who worked them in his traveling business. I recall I think in Natchez Mississippi they had a balloon festival I think in 1994 and this big fat redneck had a big old vat tub of peanuts and they'd scoop them out with a strainer and sell them to you in a big ziplock bag for a buck. Literally on the banks of the Mississippi River overhanging the riverboats and barge traffic....bright sunny hot day.

    All those small town southern fairs had a big old fat white redneck or black guy with an apron and a chefs hat sometimes.

    I dunno how they're cooked in Japan but here they just add tons of salt. And it's strange because I'm not really into salty food but this stuff is like crack.

    Do you know if they add Asian spices to them in Japan?

  75. @guest
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Hello! Japan does, to the extent that they grow the toppest of top selections for whities.

    But they also like baseball, which I find suspicious. Maybe MacArthur forced it on them.

    Replies: @njguy73, @Foreign Expert, @William Badwhite, @whorefinder

    It predates MacArthur by a long ways. I believe their professional leagues date to the 1920’s or so. They just like baseball.

    I was going to opine that the ability to appreciate baseball is one sign of a more advanced society, but then remembered Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, etc all love it too, so there goes that theory.

  76. OT: Why the “Blue Wave” is just more psyops on the level of “Hillary has already Won”.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jimgeraghty/status/956508635542228992

  77. “Are There Racial Differences in Tastes for Flavors?”

    Well title asks about tastes (in the sensory meaning of the word), but the text is about preferences.

    Intuitively, you would say in answer to a question of preferences – clearly not – given how rapidly cuisines travel around the world.

    Cuisines travel across borders and oceans far more easily than things like languages do.

    Also preferences for different cuisines changes rapidly with fashions (which are dependent on things like changing technologies).

    It is also highly related to economic status – with different economic groups often developing different cuisines within the same ethnic group (aristocrats often eat very differently to peasants – with certain exceptions such as the current United States president).

    The other thing to notice is how different preferences for food can exist within families. All my family like to eat fish – but I hate the flavour. The explanation I give to this is idiosyncratic – because I remember for several years that I refused to eat fish as a child after I got a goldfish. However, today I still have zero appetite for anything tasting of fish or related to seafood.

  78. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Even more of an Anglo/European colonies sort of thing - grilling slabs of beef is the sort of thing when you make only when you have more protein calories than you know what to do with.

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio - i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Steak is foreign to East European cuisine, where meats to come in stews, and all the organs I used. I think it's the same for French cuisine, for Chinese cuisine, frankly for most cuisines so far as I can tell.

    I suspect that steak is something that the Japanese adopted from the Americans because it was cool and prestigious. Being Japanese they went on to make it better than their teachers (just as they did with Scotland/whiskey).

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous, @jeppo, @Joe Stalin

    Grilled/roasted meat is found in some cuisines and not in others. Partly for reasons of cost (and sometimes religious reasons – Hindus/Buddhists) but also having to do with lifestyle. The climate in E. Europe for much of the year does not encourage outdoor grilling. Cooking and heating was traditionally done with the enclosed tile stove and not the open fireplace. Nor were ovens for roasting a normal feature of home kitchens. So the default method for cooking everything at home was simmering in a pot over low heat.

    French cuisine does feature steak (& frites) although I have the feeling that it is not particularly ancient (a lot of cuisine is more recent than you think – the New World crops of potatoes, tomatoes, corn and hot peppers really changed the entire global diet). Northern Italian (Tuscan) cuisine also feature grilled meat. As does that of many former British colonies – S. Africa, Australia. The British were known for their beef heavy diet. The nomadic cuisine of Central Asia is big on grilled meat but more often lamb than beef and cut in small bits (kebabs) so it will cook quickly on the limited available fuel.

    The Japanese diet traditionally did not include meat at all (for religious reasons) but after the Meiji restoration they made a conscious effort to Westernize and including meat in the diet was part of that. They knew that the Westerners had Magic Dirt and they wanted their dirt to be magic too, but they didn’t really know what parts of the Western lifestyle gave you the magic powers. So just to be safe they imitated all of them.

    But cost was a big element for the poor in many countries. The cuisine of the poor rarely features big slabs of meat. If they have meat in their meal at all, it is a little bit of it mixed into a much larger quantity of vegetables.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Jack D


    The Japanese diet traditionally did not include meat at all (for religious reasons) but after the Meiji restoration they made a conscious effort to Westernize and including meat in the diet was part of that. They knew that the Westerners had Magic Dirt and they wanted their dirt to be magic too, but they didn’t really know what parts of the Western lifestyle gave you the magic powers. So just to be safe they imitated all of them.

     

    Most traditional cuisines are surprisingly recent, and until the 20th century only available to wealthy people.

    Even ordinary ingredients like white rice, were in Japan historically a luxury food (with most Japanese living on millet and buckwheat) until the 20th century.

    Similarly in Russia - historically most people were living on kasha for most of the year. Some cabbage soup gives vitamins. And the freshwater fish like carp that you can catch yourself.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Jack D

    Magic fighting powers!

    https://www.imperialwagyubeef.com/wagyu-beef/history-of-the-wagyu-breed/

    But all that changed when an innovative Japanese military leader predicted diets rich in beef would make for significantly stronger soldiers, and a successful campaign waged by the general’s beef-strengthened troops served to validate his point. From that time forward, beef was a mandated part of the Japanese military diet in time of war – it gave them strength.

    Not surprisingly, when the triumphant, beef-fed soldiers returned to their homes and farms, they brought with them an appetite for beef. That appetite was a problem as Japanese elders still embraced their traditional beliefs. Cooking and consuming beef inside the home was considered a sacrilege and desecration of the house, and was therefore forbidden. Not wishing desecration of the house by consuming beef inside, when the young farmers broke for their midday meal, they heated their plowshares over hot coals and cooked their beef outside in the rice fields. Thus was born the tradition of Japanese “Plow Share Cooking.”
     

    I imagine its like one of those silly JRPGs that the doujin circles produce where you eat "roast" meals which inevitable show a photo of a slab of meat and get +50 HP for the day for your party.

    Replies: @utu, @Jack D

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Jack D

    "The Japanese diet did not include meat for religious reasons."

    FYI, there is a lot of retconning in Japanese history.

    Hawking and hunting were popular pasttimes of the nobility and traditional local dishes in my locality include boar, duck, and venison. How are these things compatible with a meat ban?

    Japan was poor and land needed for crops rather than grazing, and Buddhists discourage consumption of flesh (including fish!). But I am highly skeptical of the idea you promote.

    Replies: @Jack D

  79. @Doug
    One way to do this is to look at genes known to influence taste. Here's a few that influences the ability to taste bitterness:

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs713598
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs10246939
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1726866

    The general pattern according to the SNPedia population frequencies is that Europeans and (Guajarati) Indians tend to be the least bitter-sensitive. East Africans and East Asians tend to be the most bitter sensitive. West Africans and Mexicans fall in the middle.

    SNPedia also has a cilantro specific gene, but no population data. Another gene that might influence food preference, without directly affecting taste, is TaqIA. This gene influences the number of dopamine binding sites. People who are homozygous tend to prefer stronger, more sensuous experiences. Having fewer dopamine centers means you need stronger stimuli to feet satiated. (E.g. DDR2 is a risk factor for drug addiction, alcoholism and smoking.)

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1800497

    Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food.

    Replies: @Avalanche, @Sunbeam, @Dmitry, @res

    Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food.

    And yet – to take one famous example – in the United Kingdom, Indian restaurants (whose food is the opposite of bland taste) are historically one of the most popular types of restaurant.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8370054.stm

  80. @Jack D
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Grilled/roasted meat is found in some cuisines and not in others. Partly for reasons of cost (and sometimes religious reasons - Hindus/Buddhists) but also having to do with lifestyle. The climate in E. Europe for much of the year does not encourage outdoor grilling. Cooking and heating was traditionally done with the enclosed tile stove and not the open fireplace. Nor were ovens for roasting a normal feature of home kitchens. So the default method for cooking everything at home was simmering in a pot over low heat.

    French cuisine does feature steak (& frites) although I have the feeling that it is not particularly ancient (a lot of cuisine is more recent than you think - the New World crops of potatoes, tomatoes, corn and hot peppers really changed the entire global diet). Northern Italian (Tuscan) cuisine also feature grilled meat. As does that of many former British colonies - S. Africa, Australia. The British were known for their beef heavy diet. The nomadic cuisine of Central Asia is big on grilled meat but more often lamb than beef and cut in small bits (kebabs) so it will cook quickly on the limited available fuel.

    The Japanese diet traditionally did not include meat at all (for religious reasons) but after the Meiji restoration they made a conscious effort to Westernize and including meat in the diet was part of that. They knew that the Westerners had Magic Dirt and they wanted their dirt to be magic too, but they didn't really know what parts of the Western lifestyle gave you the magic powers. So just to be safe they imitated all of them.

    But cost was a big element for the poor in many countries. The cuisine of the poor rarely features big slabs of meat. If they have meat in their meal at all, it is a little bit of it mixed into a much larger quantity of vegetables.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Daniel Chieh, @Chrisnonymous

    The Japanese diet traditionally did not include meat at all (for religious reasons) but after the Meiji restoration they made a conscious effort to Westernize and including meat in the diet was part of that. They knew that the Westerners had Magic Dirt and they wanted their dirt to be magic too, but they didn’t really know what parts of the Western lifestyle gave you the magic powers. So just to be safe they imitated all of them.

    Most traditional cuisines are surprisingly recent, and until the 20th century only available to wealthy people.

    Even ordinary ingredients like white rice, were in Japan historically a luxury food (with most Japanese living on millet and buckwheat) until the 20th century.

    Similarly in Russia – historically most people were living on kasha for most of the year. Some cabbage soup gives vitamins. And the freshwater fish like carp that you can catch yourself.

  81. @White Guy In Japan
    @Anonymous

    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Henry's Cat, @27 year old, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @guest

    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.

    There’s something to this.

    Adult black men will order a fairly pricey Cognac to be mixed with flavored soda in flavors like orange or grape.

    I think the stereotype that black kids in the U.S. grow up on Kool-Aid is probably true and widespread, accounting for blacks favoring sickly sweet, strongly fruit flavored (and often with color to match) soft drinks and mixed drinks.

    It may not be genetic, because the male descendants of slaves in the Caribbean will drink things like overproof white rums which are somewhat dry and without fruiting them up too much.

  82. @Jack D
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Grilled/roasted meat is found in some cuisines and not in others. Partly for reasons of cost (and sometimes religious reasons - Hindus/Buddhists) but also having to do with lifestyle. The climate in E. Europe for much of the year does not encourage outdoor grilling. Cooking and heating was traditionally done with the enclosed tile stove and not the open fireplace. Nor were ovens for roasting a normal feature of home kitchens. So the default method for cooking everything at home was simmering in a pot over low heat.

    French cuisine does feature steak (& frites) although I have the feeling that it is not particularly ancient (a lot of cuisine is more recent than you think - the New World crops of potatoes, tomatoes, corn and hot peppers really changed the entire global diet). Northern Italian (Tuscan) cuisine also feature grilled meat. As does that of many former British colonies - S. Africa, Australia. The British were known for their beef heavy diet. The nomadic cuisine of Central Asia is big on grilled meat but more often lamb than beef and cut in small bits (kebabs) so it will cook quickly on the limited available fuel.

    The Japanese diet traditionally did not include meat at all (for religious reasons) but after the Meiji restoration they made a conscious effort to Westernize and including meat in the diet was part of that. They knew that the Westerners had Magic Dirt and they wanted their dirt to be magic too, but they didn't really know what parts of the Western lifestyle gave you the magic powers. So just to be safe they imitated all of them.

    But cost was a big element for the poor in many countries. The cuisine of the poor rarely features big slabs of meat. If they have meat in their meal at all, it is a little bit of it mixed into a much larger quantity of vegetables.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Daniel Chieh, @Chrisnonymous

    Magic fighting powers!

    https://www.imperialwagyubeef.com/wagyu-beef/history-of-the-wagyu-breed/

    But all that changed when an innovative Japanese military leader predicted diets rich in beef would make for significantly stronger soldiers, and a successful campaign waged by the general’s beef-strengthened troops served to validate his point. From that time forward, beef was a mandated part of the Japanese military diet in time of war – it gave them strength.

    Not surprisingly, when the triumphant, beef-fed soldiers returned to their homes and farms, they brought with them an appetite for beef. That appetite was a problem as Japanese elders still embraced their traditional beliefs. Cooking and consuming beef inside the home was considered a sacrilege and desecration of the house, and was therefore forbidden. Not wishing desecration of the house by consuming beef inside, when the young farmers broke for their midday meal, they heated their plowshares over hot coals and cooked their beef outside in the rice fields. Thus was born the tradition of Japanese “Plow Share Cooking.”

    I imagine its like one of those silly JRPGs that the doujin circles produce where you eat “roast” meals which inevitable show a photo of a slab of meat and get +50 HP for the day for your party.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @utu
    @Daniel Chieh


    Cooking and consuming beef inside the home was considered a sacrilege and desecration
     
    This was the case in continental Europe among peasant but they consume milk and made cheese. A cow was the provider for the whole family. What Japanese did with cows before they started eating them? A working animal?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Daniel Chieh

    , @Jack D
    @Daniel Chieh

    "Plowshare Cooking" is "suki yaki" in Japanese.

    It's not entirely clear whether this is the true origin of sukiyaki or whether that's just a legend. Dish origins are often lost in the mists of history and later on legends or "just so" stories are invented to go with the name. Suki could also be derived from the word sukimi (thin slices of meat or fish) and have nothing to do with plows except that it happens to sound like the word for plow.

  83. My mother called cokes “dopes” when she was growing up in Bridgeport, Alabama in the 1920’s. Counter Cokes made from syrup and soda water by the way taste far better than the bottled variety*. I’m surprised they aren’t fashionable again.

    *Because “Coke is Vile” when it comes in a bottle (even though my town was built on Coca-Cola bottling).

  84. @BenKenobi
    Ice? Payin' for frozen water?

    Wooh boy, they got you comin' an' goin'!

    Replies: @guest, @Alden

    You don’t pay for the ice. You pay for the drink which is full of ice. Or you can just tell the waiter no ice. If it’s one of those drink stations where one fills the cup, just don’t put the cup under the ice despenser

    But with our hot summers. Americans love a glass of ice cubes and soda.

    7-up tastes terrible unless it’s ice cold. Coke tastes bad unless it’s cold Mountain Dew is pretty good tepid.

    A lot of American Mothers don’t keep soda in the house. So we grow up thinking soda is an eating out special treat.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Alden


    A lot of American Mothers don’t keep soda in the house. So we grow up thinking soda is an eating out special treat.
     
    It is 2018, not 1958.
  85. @Anonymous
    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @White Guy In Japan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden, @The King is A Fink, @e, @Forbes

    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    The explanation – perhaps apocryphal – was that slaves in the antebellum South were permitted to breed and raise chickens for personal use in and around their slave quarters in the typical free-range sort of manner. Non-industrial scale chicken production doesn’t require much in the way of resources and the chickens more or less raise themselves, feasting on grasses, wild seeds, insects, undigested grain passed through larger animals and occasionally other small animals with little or no impact on the plantation’s main farming operations (unlike pigs or goats).

    So the slave’s diet (and, one assumes, the diet of freed slaves down the line) was heavy on chicken.

  86. @J.Ross
    @Stephen Marle

    I hate cilantro. Tastes like soap.
    I find myself briefly in the People's Republic of China on an ostensibly educational propaganda-tourism thing.
    A third of the otherwise indescribably delicious food has cilantro.
    I recall my now-dead elderly Indian neighbor serving me cold chutney, and my abnormally manly and diplomatic pretense of enjoyment.
    I recall my larval-otak desire to one day be a good fellow among conformity-prizing East Asians.
    I recall how much money I paid to be there.
    By the end of the trip I was okay with cilantro. I don't seek it out, I cannot understand why lemongrass isn't bigger, but cilantro no longer tastes like soap to me. Scientific postscript: my sister (still) hates cilantro.

    Replies: @Stephen Marle, @Daniel Chieh

    I need to find that study but it found that English visitors to Greece, who had fundamentally different gut flora and diets from the Greek population nonetheless had their gut flora altered to mostly resemble the surrounding population by the third month of their stay.

    I imagine that adjustment to environment may have impact on taste as well.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Daniel Chieh

    And also, food is a domain of pleasure, where our irrational preferences and fears are generally validated without question. I can't think of historical examples off the top of my head but am certain that, after a war with shortages, people not only tolerated but "preferred" foods to which they had previously been indifferent.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  87. @Anonymous
    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @White Guy In Japan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden, @The King is A Fink, @e, @Forbes

    Southerners love Kentucky fried chicken. Blacks have a southern heritage.

  88. @Dave Pinsen
    I suspect the main appeal of grape soda to African Americans is its sweetness. They tend to like very sweet drinks (coffee with several sugars in it, sweet iced tea, sweet mixed drinks like mudslides, etc.). I don't know if that's a result of southern heritage though.

    Untreated diabetics also often crave sweet drinks too, which might account for some percentage of this.

    Replies: @Alden, @Buffalo Joe

    Sweet iced tea is a very very southern thing Whites and blacks love it.

  89. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @guest
    @AndrewR

    Speaking of drank, in favor of the nurture side would be blacks preferring whatever soft drink pairs best with codeine cough syrup.

    Whether their love of codeine is innate is another question. Maybe they have a genetic preference for being high and an environmental tendency to be prescribed strong cough syrup.

    Yet another possibility: they're born to love syrup.

    Replies: @Anon

    More sugar was available to sub-Saharan Africans in the form of sweet fruit than was available to Northern Europeans in prehistory because Africa has a year-round growing season, as well as a wider variety of fruit. Also, fruit ferments fast in a hot climate, which means Africans were used to getting drunk off the fruit they ate. A mixture of grape drink and codeine likely suits them fine.

  90. @Dave Pinsen
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Steak is pretty common Latin America, for the same reasons. Argentina and Brazil, of course, but even the "typical Colombian platter" at Colombian restaurants around here includes a piece of (tough sirloin, unless you upgrade) steak.

    Koreans eat plenty of beef too, but usually thinly sliced stuff they can eat with chopsticks - bulgogi, chaedol baegi, etc.

    Casual French restaurants in America usually have steak - they don't in France?

    Replies: @william munny, @Alden

    Steak and French fries with a little salad is on the menu of most French restaurants from freeway rest stop places to the most expensive

    It’s often on both lunch and dinner menus, small portions at lunch buffet at dinner.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Alden

    Bigger portions at dinner, not buffet. Is there a way to dis able spell check inserting itself into every word I write?

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Alden

    Yeah, that's what I figured. "Steak Frites" is pretty common at a brasseries here.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  91. …I can recall somebody in the marketing business explaining to me that orange soda tends to be one of the flavors that a developing country first falls in love with because refrigeration is spotty or nonexistent.

    Fanta orange soda is very popular in parts of Eastern Europe. You might stop by a friend’s apartment on a hot summer day when he will offer you a “Fanta,” not refrigerated.

    There are people there, many from older generations, who honestly believe that cold drinks will make you sick. If you happen to come down with a cold or allergy while visiting, they will say, “Aha! You have been drinking all those cold drinks.”

    It is a reasonable hypothesis that those people lived many years without widespread refrigeration — and perhaps that the fear of cold drinks was a rationalization for not having what the West had.

    Even now you can find cold closets, pantries that work like refrigerators, in the ubiquitous Stalinist apartments. There is a window inside the closet that will be kept open to the outdoors during the cold months, while the door to the closet will be kept closed. In this manner, perishable items inside the closet will have rudimentary refrigeration.

    Basically, those old communists were living the way our American ancestors lived well over a century before. In the villages, some still are.

    • Replies: @inertial
    @Buzz Mohawk

    By the 1970s, pretty much every urban family and most rural ones in the USSR had refrigerators. Yet cooled drinks were almost unknown. Yes, part of it was the belief that drinking cold will make you sick. I remember that even milk was taken out refrigerators and heated up for us kids.

    As to soda, it just didn't seem to occur to anyone that it could be cooled. I was surprised when I first learned that Americans do it. And such American concept as iced tea seemed totally ludicrous -like boiled beer.

    , @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Most of what you said is correct but the fear of cold drinks has nothing to do with rationalizing their lack of refrigeration. The very notion of a "cold" is based on the folk belief that disease is caused by cold rather than an infectious agent. The rhinovirus was not discovered until 1956. Most traditional medicine systems associate the cause and/or cure of disease with heat and cold or "hot" and "cold" foods.

    Americans seem to think of cold drinks as a component of the good life and I'll admit that a cold drink on a hot day is indeed refreshing (although I am not a big ice fan - I'd rather have a drink cold but with no ice, thank you). But this is much more culturally bound than you think and cultures where they drink their drinks at greater than mouth numbing temperature are not somehow backward or retarded, just different.

    Americans also have this obsession with refrigeration - if you leave food out without refrigeration for more than 10 minutes, you are gonna die. Cheese was invented as a way of preserving milk WITHOUT refrigeration and you can leave it out for days and nothing will happen to it except that you will be able to taste it because it is not ice cold.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Gringo

  92. @Peter Akuleyev
    Judging from soda, I would guess nurture easily trumps nature. Americans, including Americans of German descent, love root beer. Most Germans find root beer disgusting. Poles are not big fans of Coke but Polish Americans love Coke as much as any other Americans do. Americans of European descent love peanut butter, Europeans don't. Although increasingly (maybe from the influence of Thai food?) I've noticed a far greater tolerance for peanut butter in Europe than 30 years ago.

    Class divisions also suggest a heavy nurture influence. White and black poor people in the US have pretty similar tastes in food - high in sugar and fat. No one is born appreciating a fine bordeaux or wanting to eat stinky cheese. You need to be carefully taught.

    Replies: @Anon, @Stan Adams

    I find that went I eat barbeque, I crave root beer with it, like milk pairing with a peanut butter sandwich.

  93. I think asians are far more likely to note “umami” as a discrete flavor. Msg is in western food, e.g. Pizza sauce, but very few (none?) Italian regional cuisines pick it specifically out from the broad flavor umbrella.
    There’s lots of subtlety in Asian cuisine which has no clear parallel in western cuisine

    • Replies: @peterike
    @anonspc


    I think asians are far more likely to note “umami” as a discrete flavor. Msg is in western food, e.g. Pizza sauce, but very few (none?) Italian regional cuisines pick it specifically out from the broad flavor umbrella.

     

    Well, the second highest natural occurence of MSG, after giant kelp, is in Parmesan cheese. The third and fourth highest are sun dried tomatoes and tomato paste. So Italians know a heck of a lot about umami, but they don't call it that. A sprinkling of Parmesan on anything serves to boost flavor significantly.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  94. @Doug
    One way to do this is to look at genes known to influence taste. Here's a few that influences the ability to taste bitterness:

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs713598
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs10246939
    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1726866

    The general pattern according to the SNPedia population frequencies is that Europeans and (Guajarati) Indians tend to be the least bitter-sensitive. East Africans and East Asians tend to be the most bitter sensitive. West Africans and Mexicans fall in the middle.

    SNPedia also has a cilantro specific gene, but no population data. Another gene that might influence food preference, without directly affecting taste, is TaqIA. This gene influences the number of dopamine binding sites. People who are homozygous tend to prefer stronger, more sensuous experiences. Having fewer dopamine centers means you need stronger stimuli to feet satiated. (E.g. DDR2 is a risk factor for drug addiction, alcoholism and smoking.)

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs1800497

    Europeans by far have the lowest incidence of this gene. Which probably explains their Puritan imperative, including bland food.

    Replies: @Avalanche, @Sunbeam, @Dmitry, @res

    Thanks for the information! That dopamine binding site SNP is interesting.

    This 2015 study looks at the evolution of taste SNPs and their population frequencies in 1000 Genomes: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep12349

    Abstract:

    Despite recent advances in the knowledge of interindividual taste differences, the underlying genetic backgrounds have remained to be fully elucidated. Much of the taste variation among different mammalian species can be explained by pseudogenization of taste receptors. Here I investigated whether the most recent disruptions of taste receptor genes segregate with their intact forms in modern humans by analyzing 14 ethnically diverse populations. The results revealed an unprecedented prevalence of 25 segregating loss-of-function (LoF) taste receptor variants, identifying one of the most pronounced cases of functional population diversity in the human genome. LoF variant frequency in taste receptors (2.10%) was considerably higher than the overall LoF frequency in human genome (0.16%). In particular, molecular evolutionary rates of candidate sour (14.7%) and bitter (1.8%) receptors were far higher in humans than those of sweet (0.02%), salty (0.05%), and umami (0.17%) receptors compared with other carnivorous mammals, although not all of the taste receptors were identified. Many LoF variants are population-specific, some of which arose even after population differentiation, not before divergence of the modern and archaic human. I conclude that modern humans might have been losing some sour and bitter receptor genes because of high-frequency LoF variants.

  95. Supposedly likess and dislikes of broccoli or cilantro are genetic.

    Children have very strong sense of likes/dislikes. In most cases they get acculturated and end up eating anything within their culture. I am amazed when I hear with a taint of pride from some grown ups: “I do not eat fish” or “I can’t stand this or that.”

    • Replies: @Sandmich
    @utu

    I am amazed when I hear with a taint of pride from some grown ups: “I do not eat fish” or “I can’t stand this or that.”
    ---
    Two words: "Canned Peas". It's hard as a kid to convince people that you can't stomach something, but somewhat harder as an adult bound by politeness to say "no, I REALLY will not eat that and I will not be polite and choke it down".

    , @3g4me
    @utu

    @95 utu: "Children have very strong sense of likes/dislikes. In most cases they get acculturated and end up eating anything within their culture."

    There were a lot of things I would not eat as a child, both in response to strong flavors and maternal intransigence regarding any deviation from what she considered the norm. Once on my own I found I enjoyed a lot of things I previously did not, and although there are exceptions, I've tried and enjoyed various dishes and flavors around the world (my experimentation does not extend to insects or most organ meats, however).

    I vowed to be far more flexible with my own children. Both were nursed (which supposedly familiarizes babies with different flavors depending on the mother's diet) and both were allowed to taste and enjoy or spit out food, depending on their preference. My only rule was that they had to try one bite for taste and usually more than once over a period of months, but it didn't have to be swallowed. FWIW, the older one eats most things (loved lemons and olives and mushrooms and avocado and papaya and lamb and fish even as a toddler). His brother started out an incredibly picky eater and has stayed that way. Far less carnivorous than the rest of the family, much more sensitive to food texture and appearance as well as taste, and far more of a carb hound. So although the genetics and environment and parental rules remained the same, the results were almost polar opposites. Make of it what you will.

  96. @Anonymous
    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @White Guy In Japan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden, @The King is A Fink, @e, @Forbes

    The brothers in South Africa are pretty keen on their KFC too. You could always tell when payday had rolled round by the number of dead dogs along the roads into the townships. Payday = KFC = bones thrown out of taxi windows = scavenging dogs = roadkill.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @The King is A Fink

    Fascinating.

    In the same way, one can roughly judge ambient air temperature in Chicago.
    The more human bodies on the street = more murders.
    The more yoof on the street = more murders.
    The higher the temperature = more yoof on the street.

  97. @Daniel Chieh
    @Jack D

    Magic fighting powers!

    https://www.imperialwagyubeef.com/wagyu-beef/history-of-the-wagyu-breed/

    But all that changed when an innovative Japanese military leader predicted diets rich in beef would make for significantly stronger soldiers, and a successful campaign waged by the general’s beef-strengthened troops served to validate his point. From that time forward, beef was a mandated part of the Japanese military diet in time of war – it gave them strength.

    Not surprisingly, when the triumphant, beef-fed soldiers returned to their homes and farms, they brought with them an appetite for beef. That appetite was a problem as Japanese elders still embraced their traditional beliefs. Cooking and consuming beef inside the home was considered a sacrilege and desecration of the house, and was therefore forbidden. Not wishing desecration of the house by consuming beef inside, when the young farmers broke for their midday meal, they heated their plowshares over hot coals and cooked their beef outside in the rice fields. Thus was born the tradition of Japanese “Plow Share Cooking.”
     

    I imagine its like one of those silly JRPGs that the doujin circles produce where you eat "roast" meals which inevitable show a photo of a slab of meat and get +50 HP for the day for your party.

    Replies: @utu, @Jack D

    Cooking and consuming beef inside the home was considered a sacrilege and desecration

    This was the case in continental Europe among peasant but they consume milk and made cheese. A cow was the provider for the whole family. What Japanese did with cows before they started eating them? A working animal?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @utu

    I don't think they kept much cattle at all but to the extent that they did they would have used water buffalo or oxen as working animals. Most mostly they just didn't have any at all. Not a lot of grazing land and grain was too valuable to be feeding to cattle.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @utu

    Relatively rare, but yes, working animals(look at the shape of the one below). Descended from the "Yellow Cattle" of the Chinese(specifically the Qinghai Yellow), though after the Japanese acquired a taste for beef, they began to significantly rebreed them and modify them for taste.

    http://www.fao.org/docrep/V0600T/v0600T0i.jpg

  98. @Pat Casey
    Blacks love menthol cigarettes, which I find disgusting.

    Replies: @guest, @Anonymous, @Buffalo Joe

    Pat, Didn’t start smoking until my twenties, and got addicted quickly. Buffalo was a city full of heavy, dirty and hot industry, such as the half dozen or so steel mills and a handful of foundries. I always carried an extra pack of Kools or Newports in my lunch bucket. You know, because they were less harsh on the pipes when choking down ore dust or foundry soot. Otherwise it was Marlboros.

  99. They actually shipped ice from the Boston area as far as India and China. It was mostly bought by Europeans in those locations though.

  100. @Dave Pinsen
    I suspect the main appeal of grape soda to African Americans is its sweetness. They tend to like very sweet drinks (coffee with several sugars in it, sweet iced tea, sweet mixed drinks like mudslides, etc.). I don't know if that's a result of southern heritage though.

    Untreated diabetics also often crave sweet drinks too, which might account for some percentage of this.

    Replies: @Alden, @Buffalo Joe

    Dave, I was the only white guy in an affirmative action office. On Fridays we would share a few drinks in the office…Johnny Walker over ice in a glass of milk ! That was a real WTF moment.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Buffalo Joe

    Milk with spirits is a good way to avoid hangovers. It was very popular for a long time. Milk punch and coddle (eggnog) were booze and milk sometimes eggs.

    Supposedly the great Chicago fire was caused by some people having a party. Instead of buying milk for the milk punch they snuck into the O’Leary barn and to milk the cow. The cow struggled and kicked over their kerosene lamp and the fire started.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Buffalo Joe

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Buffalo Joe

    That's not too far off from booze and cream, which is a fairly common combo (White Russians, Bailey's, etc.).

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  101. I don’t know if they still make Faygo soda, maybe it was regional, although it started in Michigan. We ordered or requested Faygo by the color as in red pop, green pop, yellow pop and purple pop.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Buffalo Joe

    They still make it. Regional except for Juggalos, for whom it’s a sacrament.

    Many regional sodas exist still. And some long dead. Chicago had Canfield’s still into my youth and maybe still does, but older relatives talked about Green River, a brand that apparently folded in the sixties. Moxie in New England, Vess in St. Louis.

  102. @Buzz Mohawk

    ...I can recall somebody in the marketing business explaining to me that orange soda tends to be one of the flavors that a developing country first falls in love with because refrigeration is spotty or nonexistent.
     
    Fanta orange soda is very popular in parts of Eastern Europe. You might stop by a friend's apartment on a hot summer day when he will offer you a "Fanta," not refrigerated.

    There are people there, many from older generations, who honestly believe that cold drinks will make you sick. If you happen to come down with a cold or allergy while visiting, they will say, "Aha! You have been drinking all those cold drinks."

    It is a reasonable hypothesis that those people lived many years without widespread refrigeration -- and perhaps that the fear of cold drinks was a rationalization for not having what the West had.

    Even now you can find cold closets, pantries that work like refrigerators, in the ubiquitous Stalinist apartments. There is a window inside the closet that will be kept open to the outdoors during the cold months, while the door to the closet will be kept closed. In this manner, perishable items inside the closet will have rudimentary refrigeration.

    Basically, those old communists were living the way our American ancestors lived well over a century before. In the villages, some still are.

    Replies: @inertial, @Jack D

    By the 1970s, pretty much every urban family and most rural ones in the USSR had refrigerators. Yet cooled drinks were almost unknown. Yes, part of it was the belief that drinking cold will make you sick. I remember that even milk was taken out refrigerators and heated up for us kids.

    As to soda, it just didn’t seem to occur to anyone that it could be cooled. I was surprised when I first learned that Americans do it. And such American concept as iced tea seemed totally ludicrous -like boiled beer.

  103. @White Guy In Japan
    @Anonymous

    My experience has been that blacks love strong, loud flavors. Strawberry daiquiris, everything fried with lots of hot sauce. No subtlety at all.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Henry's Cat, @27 year old, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @guest

    They certainly talk loudly. And listen to loud music. And wear loud clothes.

  104. @Bob Smith of Suburbia
    Pizza man, 15+ years. They love Sprite.

    They *love* Sprite.

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @Father O'Hara, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Isn’t that what they call white women , Sprites?

  105. Neoconned:

    Fellow southerner here:

    I tried a can of the peanuts you speak of just a couple weeks back (bought at Walmart)–sorry, but they are awful; tossed most of the peanuts in the trash, as there were more shells than food.

    Cilantro is great; used to buy Bush beaked beans with cilantro, but now you have to live in El Paso or points west to get them (I’m in south Va.)

    BTW, fried chicken is NOT a BLACK ONLY thing; we rednecks love it too, though not especially the ultra salty KFC kind.

    Soft drinks stink in general.

  106. @The King is A Fink
    @Anonymous

    The brothers in South Africa are pretty keen on their KFC too. You could always tell when payday had rolled round by the number of dead dogs along the roads into the townships. Payday = KFC = bones thrown out of taxi windows = scavenging dogs = roadkill.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Fascinating.

    In the same way, one can roughly judge ambient air temperature in Chicago.
    The more human bodies on the street = more murders.
    The more yoof on the street = more murders.
    The higher the temperature = more yoof on the street.

    • Agree: MBlanc46
  107. @Alden
    @Dave Pinsen

    Steak and French fries with a little salad is on the menu of most French restaurants from freeway rest stop places to the most expensive

    It’s often on both lunch and dinner menus, small portions at lunch buffet at dinner.

    Replies: @Alden, @Dave Pinsen

    Bigger portions at dinner, not buffet. Is there a way to dis able spell check inserting itself into every word I write?

  108. @AnotherDad
    Anyone heard of any progress on finding the Mountain Dew gene?

    I'm a carrier, even though i'm not more that 1/16th Scots-Irish. (Maybe the Irish can carry it too?)

    Replies: @guest

    My father had Mountain Dew-mania, but only for a limited number of years.

    He was also addicted to at different times:

    Merit cigarettes
    Windsor Canadian whiskey
    Pinwheels
    Bacon crackers
    Chicken in a Biscuit crackers
    Sam Cooke, Patsy Cline, the Righteous Brothers, and the soundtrack to Titanic

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    @guest


    Pinwheels
     
    The Nabisco cookie?

    They actually have two different recipes for those, depending on the time of the year.
    Here in Kentucky they stock the real chocolate covered ones during the late fall, winter and early spring. Late spring, summer, and early fall is when they ship the "fudge" covered cookies.

    Chocolate melts right around 90.
  109. @Buffalo Joe
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave, I was the only white guy in an affirmative action office. On Fridays we would share a few drinks in the office...Johnny Walker over ice in a glass of milk ! That was a real WTF moment.

    Replies: @Alden, @Dave Pinsen

    Milk with spirits is a good way to avoid hangovers. It was very popular for a long time. Milk punch and coddle (eggnog) were booze and milk sometimes eggs.

    Supposedly the great Chicago fire was caused by some people having a party. Instead of buying milk for the milk punch they snuck into the O’Leary barn and to milk the cow. The cow struggled and kicked over their kerosene lamp and the fire started.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Alden

    "The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultraviolence."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caOaQXdbFdg

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Alden

    Alden, thank you, didn't know about milk being the anti-hangover drink. I do remember drinking it straight from the cartoon to cool my hot coppers.

  110. @Anonymous
    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @White Guy In Japan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden, @The King is A Fink, @e, @Forbes

    They like Popeye’s better, if there’s one around. Spicy.

  111. @Stephen Marle
    @J.Ross

    I feel the same way about mayonnaise.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    You should, it’s feces with only the color improved, and the flavor payoff is negligible for all that awful texture. However, if you can find an authentic Dutch or Belgian restaurant that makes their own in-house, try it, especially if they have a curry variety. The stuff on the grocery store shelf is not the real thing.

  112. @utu
    @Daniel Chieh


    Cooking and consuming beef inside the home was considered a sacrilege and desecration
     
    This was the case in continental Europe among peasant but they consume milk and made cheese. A cow was the provider for the whole family. What Japanese did with cows before they started eating them? A working animal?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Daniel Chieh

    I don’t think they kept much cattle at all but to the extent that they did they would have used water buffalo or oxen as working animals. Most mostly they just didn’t have any at all. Not a lot of grazing land and grain was too valuable to be feeding to cattle.

  113. @Daniel Chieh
    @J.Ross

    I need to find that study but it found that English visitors to Greece, who had fundamentally different gut flora and diets from the Greek population nonetheless had their gut flora altered to mostly resemble the surrounding population by the third month of their stay.

    I imagine that adjustment to environment may have impact on taste as well.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    And also, food is a domain of pleasure, where our irrational preferences and fears are generally validated without question. I can’t think of historical examples off the top of my head but am certain that, after a war with shortages, people not only tolerated but “preferred” foods to which they had previously been indifferent.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @J.Ross


    I can’t think of historical examples off the top of my head but am certain that, after a war with shortages, people not only tolerated but “preferred” foods to which they had previously been indifferent.
     
    This was probably the most memorable one to me:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fried_spider

    It is not clear how this practice started, but some have suggested that the population might have started eating spiders out of desperation during the years of Khmer Rouge rule, when food was in short supply

    Replies: @Anonymous

  114. @Anon
    Aussies invented refrigeration.
    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/01/australias-top-10-inventions-refrigeration/
    The Kiwis were the first to fly.
    http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html
    You Seppos are as useless as tits on a bull.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Kylie, @William Badwhite

    But Al Gore invented the internet!

  115. @Daniel Chieh
    @Jack D

    Magic fighting powers!

    https://www.imperialwagyubeef.com/wagyu-beef/history-of-the-wagyu-breed/

    But all that changed when an innovative Japanese military leader predicted diets rich in beef would make for significantly stronger soldiers, and a successful campaign waged by the general’s beef-strengthened troops served to validate his point. From that time forward, beef was a mandated part of the Japanese military diet in time of war – it gave them strength.

    Not surprisingly, when the triumphant, beef-fed soldiers returned to their homes and farms, they brought with them an appetite for beef. That appetite was a problem as Japanese elders still embraced their traditional beliefs. Cooking and consuming beef inside the home was considered a sacrilege and desecration of the house, and was therefore forbidden. Not wishing desecration of the house by consuming beef inside, when the young farmers broke for their midday meal, they heated their plowshares over hot coals and cooked their beef outside in the rice fields. Thus was born the tradition of Japanese “Plow Share Cooking.”
     

    I imagine its like one of those silly JRPGs that the doujin circles produce where you eat "roast" meals which inevitable show a photo of a slab of meat and get +50 HP for the day for your party.

    Replies: @utu, @Jack D

    “Plowshare Cooking” is “suki yaki” in Japanese.

    It’s not entirely clear whether this is the true origin of sukiyaki or whether that’s just a legend. Dish origins are often lost in the mists of history and later on legends or “just so” stories are invented to go with the name. Suki could also be derived from the word sukimi (thin slices of meat or fish) and have nothing to do with plows except that it happens to sound like the word for plow.

  116. Lemonade is also NOT something AA ‘s drink.

  117. @utu
    Supposedly likess and dislikes of broccoli or cilantro are genetic.

    Children have very strong sense of likes/dislikes. In most cases they get acculturated and end up eating anything within their culture. I am amazed when I hear with a taint of pride from some grown ups: "I do not eat fish" or "I can't stand this or that."

    Replies: @Sandmich, @3g4me

    I am amazed when I hear with a taint of pride from some grown ups: “I do not eat fish” or “I can’t stand this or that.”

    Two words: “Canned Peas”. It’s hard as a kid to convince people that you can’t stomach something, but somewhat harder as an adult bound by politeness to say “no, I REALLY will not eat that and I will not be polite and choke it down”.

  118. @Mr. Anon
    @J.Ross

    Indeed. Who doesn't like a fried chicken tender? Really?

    "Fabrice Fabrice, a stand-up comedian notable for actually being funny:"

    They still have those?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    It was years ago, when I had a TV, on a bizarrely consistently funny show hosted by — are you ready for this — John Oliver. Part of him must hate that he has to do the same terrorism-denying Trump-hating chant every night to the same audience.

  119. @AndrewR
    @J.Ross

    I detest fried food in general. It makes me feel like absolute trash. I like food that makes me feel healthy and strong, and fried foods are the opposite of that. Not to mention, they really are not healthful; frying foods pollutes the air; and cooking oil is a fire/burn hazard and is aggravating to dispose of. I literally cannot comprehend why anyone fries food in our modern society.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Pericles, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous

    If you’re out doing manual labor in the fields all day then you need all the fried food you can get. The fattier the better. For you this is health food. Fat is only harmful to people with sedentary lives.

  120. @cliff arroyo
    I never knew about blacks liking grape soda especially. I did know about menthol cigarettes and malt liquor and hot sauce (and calling pork rinds 'skins').

    I will say I don't remember seeing much grape soda (or root beer or dr pepper style soda) in Europe... in Hungary they had elderberry flower flavored fanta (which was nice).

    Outside the UK beef isn't as common as pork (or veal) and steaks aren't that common or popular. Meat is mostly either stewed or breaded and fried.

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    Fanta is a Nazi drink. I am not kidding. During WWII, the Coca Cola subsidiaries in Germany and Holland were cut off from their supplies of Coca-Cola flavoring imported from the US and had to invent local substitutes and a name for the substitute product. The Dutch ended up with elderberries because that was something that they had. The Germans used the leftover pressings from apple cider presses and whey which was a byproduct of cheese production.

    However the Hungarian version has a different origin – in E. Europe there is a traditional kind of fizzy soft drink (related to a true root or ginger beer) that is elderberry flavored. To make this stuff (or real root/ginger beer) you ferment lightly sugared water with yeast in a closed bottle along with the appropriate root or berry and the stuff self-carbonates from the CO2 produced by the yeast (the same reason champagne is fizzy). There is very little alcohol because it is only a little bit fermented – a lot of fermentables and the bottle would explode. Modern root beer/ginger ale/elderberry Fanta is just artificially carbonated water with flavored sugar syrup like any other soda.

  121. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    @ the American love of cold drinks is indicative of the U.S.’s traditionally high standard of living.

    Dear God. To each his own, I suppose. But the American love of cold Cokes, cold sodas, is rather indicative of American low standards of living. Drinks manufactured industrially, full of artificial flavors, toe-curlingly sweet and bad for human health, that is a sign of progress?!? The fact that they have to numb the palate with ice and spend heavily to indoctrinate the consumer should make one pause and, well, take notice.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    @Anon

    How about cold water? Any restaurant in America will bring water with ice by default, whereas in Europe and China they don't.

    Replies: @TWS, @MBlanc46

  122. @anonspc
    I think asians are far more likely to note "umami" as a discrete flavor. Msg is in western food, e.g. Pizza sauce, but very few (none?) Italian regional cuisines pick it specifically out from the broad flavor umbrella.
    There's lots of subtlety in Asian cuisine which has no clear parallel in western cuisine

    Replies: @peterike

    I think asians are far more likely to note “umami” as a discrete flavor. Msg is in western food, e.g. Pizza sauce, but very few (none?) Italian regional cuisines pick it specifically out from the broad flavor umbrella.

    Well, the second highest natural occurence of MSG, after giant kelp, is in Parmesan cheese. The third and fourth highest are sun dried tomatoes and tomato paste. So Italians know a heck of a lot about umami, but they don’t call it that. A sprinkling of Parmesan on anything serves to boost flavor significantly.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @peterike

    The one trick I got from the hilariously decadent and impractical Splendid Table (NPR's admission that they're all rich, forgivable because it's about food) is plonking a chunk of Parmesan into soup or stock at the start and just leaving it there. It will not make everything cheesy, it imparts hard-to-describe between-flavors, and lends depth to whatever other flavors are present. Or, you know, Bam.

    Replies: @peterike, @Jack D

  123. @guest
    @AnotherDad

    My father had Mountain Dew-mania, but only for a limited number of years.

    He was also addicted to at different times:

    Merit cigarettes
    Windsor Canadian whiskey
    Pinwheels
    Bacon crackers
    Chicken in a Biscuit crackers
    Sam Cooke, Patsy Cline, the Righteous Brothers, and the soundtrack to Titanic

    Replies: @Chris Mallory

    Pinwheels

    The Nabisco cookie?

    They actually have two different recipes for those, depending on the time of the year.
    Here in Kentucky they stock the real chocolate covered ones during the late fall, winter and early spring. Late spring, summer, and early fall is when they ship the “fudge” covered cookies.

    Chocolate melts right around 90.

  124. @Alden
    @Buffalo Joe

    Milk with spirits is a good way to avoid hangovers. It was very popular for a long time. Milk punch and coddle (eggnog) were booze and milk sometimes eggs.

    Supposedly the great Chicago fire was caused by some people having a party. Instead of buying milk for the milk punch they snuck into the O’Leary barn and to milk the cow. The cow struggled and kicked over their kerosene lamp and the fire started.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Buffalo Joe

    “The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultraviolence.”

  125. OT-

    The wonderfully named “London Breed”, the interim Black mayor of San Francisco, has been replaced by a White venture capitalist which apparently “sets off an uproar.” The NY Times notes the friction between the declining political fortunes of Blacks in San Francisco and that of the ascendent Asian community.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/san-francisco-mayor-breed-farrell.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=us&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=U.S.&pgtype=article

  126. @Buzz Mohawk

    ...I can recall somebody in the marketing business explaining to me that orange soda tends to be one of the flavors that a developing country first falls in love with because refrigeration is spotty or nonexistent.
     
    Fanta orange soda is very popular in parts of Eastern Europe. You might stop by a friend's apartment on a hot summer day when he will offer you a "Fanta," not refrigerated.

    There are people there, many from older generations, who honestly believe that cold drinks will make you sick. If you happen to come down with a cold or allergy while visiting, they will say, "Aha! You have been drinking all those cold drinks."

    It is a reasonable hypothesis that those people lived many years without widespread refrigeration -- and perhaps that the fear of cold drinks was a rationalization for not having what the West had.

    Even now you can find cold closets, pantries that work like refrigerators, in the ubiquitous Stalinist apartments. There is a window inside the closet that will be kept open to the outdoors during the cold months, while the door to the closet will be kept closed. In this manner, perishable items inside the closet will have rudimentary refrigeration.

    Basically, those old communists were living the way our American ancestors lived well over a century before. In the villages, some still are.

    Replies: @inertial, @Jack D

    Most of what you said is correct but the fear of cold drinks has nothing to do with rationalizing their lack of refrigeration. The very notion of a “cold” is based on the folk belief that disease is caused by cold rather than an infectious agent. The rhinovirus was not discovered until 1956. Most traditional medicine systems associate the cause and/or cure of disease with heat and cold or “hot” and “cold” foods.

    Americans seem to think of cold drinks as a component of the good life and I’ll admit that a cold drink on a hot day is indeed refreshing (although I am not a big ice fan – I’d rather have a drink cold but with no ice, thank you). But this is much more culturally bound than you think and cultures where they drink their drinks at greater than mouth numbing temperature are not somehow backward or retarded, just different.

    Americans also have this obsession with refrigeration – if you leave food out without refrigeration for more than 10 minutes, you are gonna die. Cheese was invented as a way of preserving milk WITHOUT refrigeration and you can leave it out for days and nothing will happen to it except that you will be able to taste it because it is not ice cold.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Cold does weaken your immune system, especially in people with inadequate diets. The folk association between cold and disease is justified.

    , @Gringo
    @Jack D

    Americans also have this obsession with refrigeration – if you leave food out without refrigeration for more than 10 minutes, you are gonna die. Cheese was invented as a way of preserving milk WITHOUT refrigeration and you can leave it out for days and nothing will happen to it except that you will be able to taste it because it is not ice cold.

    Friends in the Guatemalan highlands, where temperatures averaged about 72 high and 50 low, did not have refrigeration. They would cook up a pot of beans and leave it in an unrefrigerated cabinet with a screen to keep out the flies- rather like an old pie safe- for several days. I ate those unrefrigerated beans and never suffered a moment of illness from doing so.

    Most food tastes are acquired, not genetic, I would tend to believe. I currently eat yerba mate, hot peppers, and cilantro very often. I didn't eat those until I was an adult.

  127. Nickelodeon’s Kenan & Kel had a running gag about Kel’s love of orange soda.

  128. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_soft_drink

    Orange soft drinks (especially those without orange juice) often contain very high levels of sodium benzoate, and this often imparts a slight metallic taste to the beverage. Other additives commonly found in orange soft drinks include rosin and sodium hexametaphosphate.

  129. Anonymous [AKA "JDX2"] says:

    Do Asians have less of a sweetooth? When my Asian GF says things taste “too sweet,” I tell her I don’t understand the concept of “too sweet,” it’s like “too tasty.”

  130. @J.Ross
    @Daniel Chieh

    And also, food is a domain of pleasure, where our irrational preferences and fears are generally validated without question. I can't think of historical examples off the top of my head but am certain that, after a war with shortages, people not only tolerated but "preferred" foods to which they had previously been indifferent.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    I can’t think of historical examples off the top of my head but am certain that, after a war with shortages, people not only tolerated but “preferred” foods to which they had previously been indifferent.

    This was probably the most memorable one to me:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fried_spider

    It is not clear how this practice started, but some have suggested that the population might have started eating spiders out of desperation during the years of Khmer Rouge rule, when food was in short supply

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Daniel Chieh

    Everything tastes good deep-fried.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

  131. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Most of what you said is correct but the fear of cold drinks has nothing to do with rationalizing their lack of refrigeration. The very notion of a "cold" is based on the folk belief that disease is caused by cold rather than an infectious agent. The rhinovirus was not discovered until 1956. Most traditional medicine systems associate the cause and/or cure of disease with heat and cold or "hot" and "cold" foods.

    Americans seem to think of cold drinks as a component of the good life and I'll admit that a cold drink on a hot day is indeed refreshing (although I am not a big ice fan - I'd rather have a drink cold but with no ice, thank you). But this is much more culturally bound than you think and cultures where they drink their drinks at greater than mouth numbing temperature are not somehow backward or retarded, just different.

    Americans also have this obsession with refrigeration - if you leave food out without refrigeration for more than 10 minutes, you are gonna die. Cheese was invented as a way of preserving milk WITHOUT refrigeration and you can leave it out for days and nothing will happen to it except that you will be able to taste it because it is not ice cold.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Gringo

    Cold does weaken your immune system, especially in people with inadequate diets. The folk association between cold and disease is justified.

  132. @anonymous coward

    The American love of cold drinks is indicative of the U.S.’s traditionally high standard of living.
     
    No it isn't. It's just a bizarre and senseless historical artifact. People in USA and Mexico put ice in their drinks, which sounds insane to people in Germany or Russia. Germany certainly has a higher standard of living than Mexico.

    (Russians still drink their vodka chilled, and there's not a lack of cold in Russia. The relationship between living standards and cold seems suspect.)

    Replies: @Anonym, @anonymous

    I’ve been told that in the UK the Limeys prefer their ale served at something close to room temperature–or at least certainly not cold.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    @anonymous

    Cellar temperature—in the 50s F. Top fermented ales are quite complex. Chilling them too much deadens the flavor.

  133. @utu
    @Daniel Chieh


    Cooking and consuming beef inside the home was considered a sacrilege and desecration
     
    This was the case in continental Europe among peasant but they consume milk and made cheese. A cow was the provider for the whole family. What Japanese did with cows before they started eating them? A working animal?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Daniel Chieh

    Relatively rare, but yes, working animals(look at the shape of the one below). Descended from the “Yellow Cattle” of the Chinese(specifically the Qinghai Yellow), though after the Japanese acquired a taste for beef, they began to significantly rebreed them and modify them for taste.

  134. @peterike
    @anonspc


    I think asians are far more likely to note “umami” as a discrete flavor. Msg is in western food, e.g. Pizza sauce, but very few (none?) Italian regional cuisines pick it specifically out from the broad flavor umbrella.

     

    Well, the second highest natural occurence of MSG, after giant kelp, is in Parmesan cheese. The third and fourth highest are sun dried tomatoes and tomato paste. So Italians know a heck of a lot about umami, but they don't call it that. A sprinkling of Parmesan on anything serves to boost flavor significantly.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    The one trick I got from the hilariously decadent and impractical Splendid Table (NPR’s admission that they’re all rich, forgivable because it’s about food) is plonking a chunk of Parmesan into soup or stock at the start and just leaving it there. It will not make everything cheesy, it imparts hard-to-describe between-flavors, and lends depth to whatever other flavors are present. Or, you know, Bam.

    • Replies: @peterike
    @J.Ross


    is plonking a chunk of Parmesan into soup or stock at the start and just leaving it there.

     

    Yes, this is also a good use of the Parmesan rind you would otherwise throw away. You can store those in the freezer and drop them into a soup or stew for that extra, as you say, Bam!

    Anchovies have a similar effect. A few smashed up anchovies in a stew won't taint the flavor (don't go overboard with them), but will add depth.
    , @Jack D
    @J.Ross

    What you are calling bam is really umami, which is one of the 5 basic tastes (for which Western culture had only 4 words - sweet, sour,salty, bitter). Umami is perceived as savory or brothy but in chemical terms it is what we perceive when our glutamate receptors light up. Many fermented products (cheese, soy sauce, yeast extracts such as Vegemite) are high in glutamates. BTW, there is nothing wrong with MSG - it got a bad rap for no reason, though a little goes a long way.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous

  135. One of the greatest pleasures of the Martin Ritt film The Spy Who Came In From The Cold is the grocery interlude (while Alec is building his intelligence “legend”) displaying The Canned Foods of Midcentury England. That needs to be a website if it isn’t already, or you can make do with James Lileks’s Gastro-Anomalies.

  136. @Anonymous
    @cliff arroyo

    Japanese hate root beer. It apparently tastes just like a particular brand of medicine to them. Except in Okinawa, where there are A&W shops. Okinawan and other Ryukyu Japanese are slightly different form mainland Japanese, genetically, and the dialect is pretty different, but I expect the root beer difference is simply from the influence of decades of American administration of Okinawa and the presence of all the military personnel from the U.S.

    Replies: @songbird

    In my experience, Germans hate root beer and think it tastes like toothpaste. Probably cultural. They drink a lot of Fanta, and it is very sweet.

  137. @J.Ross
    @peterike

    The one trick I got from the hilariously decadent and impractical Splendid Table (NPR's admission that they're all rich, forgivable because it's about food) is plonking a chunk of Parmesan into soup or stock at the start and just leaving it there. It will not make everything cheesy, it imparts hard-to-describe between-flavors, and lends depth to whatever other flavors are present. Or, you know, Bam.

    Replies: @peterike, @Jack D

    is plonking a chunk of Parmesan into soup or stock at the start and just leaving it there.

    Yes, this is also a good use of the Parmesan rind you would otherwise throw away. You can store those in the freezer and drop them into a soup or stew for that extra, as you say, Bam!

    Anchovies have a similar effect. A few smashed up anchovies in a stew won’t taint the flavor (don’t go overboard with them), but will add depth.

  138. @Anon
    Aussies invented refrigeration.
    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/01/australias-top-10-inventions-refrigeration/
    The Kiwis were the first to fly.
    http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html
    You Seppos are as useless as tits on a bull.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Kylie, @William Badwhite

    “You Seppos are as useless as tits on a bull.”

    Other than the small matter of halting the Japanese’ southward advance while the convicts, err, Australians were chasing Rommel around N. Africa at the behest of their British masters.

  139. @cliff arroyo
    I never knew about blacks liking grape soda especially. I did know about menthol cigarettes and malt liquor and hot sauce (and calling pork rinds 'skins').

    I will say I don't remember seeing much grape soda (or root beer or dr pepper style soda) in Europe... in Hungary they had elderberry flower flavored fanta (which was nice).

    Outside the UK beef isn't as common as pork (or veal) and steaks aren't that common or popular. Meat is mostly either stewed or breaded and fried.

    Replies: @Neoconned, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    The Belgians do a mean beef in beer stew, as far as I know the only national dish that’s required to be eaten with chips/fries.

    But different people, different tastes – sure. From the Icelandic fermented shark (hakarl?) to the “century egg” of China and the witchetty grubs of Australia. The Inuit have a dish of fermented little auks in sealskin (kiviak).

    http://www.meemalee.com/2010/12/hakarl-rotten-shark-worst-thing-i-have.html

    But a lot of that’s related to what’s available. The people on St Kilda, a remote island beyond the Hebrides, had a pretty Icelandic diet for centuries – fish and seabird being the most readily available food.

    Anonymous 7.58 – “real” Brit beer should be drunk cool but not chilled – cellar temperature. Of course a lot of Brits just drink chilled lager or worse, Bud Light.

  140. @Peter Akuleyev
    Judging from soda, I would guess nurture easily trumps nature. Americans, including Americans of German descent, love root beer. Most Germans find root beer disgusting. Poles are not big fans of Coke but Polish Americans love Coke as much as any other Americans do. Americans of European descent love peanut butter, Europeans don't. Although increasingly (maybe from the influence of Thai food?) I've noticed a far greater tolerance for peanut butter in Europe than 30 years ago.

    Class divisions also suggest a heavy nurture influence. White and black poor people in the US have pretty similar tastes in food - high in sugar and fat. No one is born appreciating a fine bordeaux or wanting to eat stinky cheese. You need to be carefully taught.

    Replies: @Anon, @Stan Adams

    An American’s notes on his homeland’s trashy food:

    * I don’t like root beer, unless it’s in a cup with vanilla ice cream.
    * I drink far too much Coke. (That would be Coca-Cola Classic, and not Pepsi-Cola.) I hate Diet Coke.
    * I’m not overly wild about peanut butter, but I do like Reese’s peanut-butter cups.
    * For Christmas, someone gave me a “Slice of Joy” gift card from The Cheesecake Factory. (The card came free with a cake she ordered.) I redeemed it for a slice of Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup cheesecake.
    * I loathe ranch dressing.
    * My comfort sandwich is a turkey-and-Swiss melt on a croissant with mustard. My comfort breakfast is scrambled eggs with corned beef hash.
    * I like Italian food. My family is not Italian, but when I was a kid both my mother and my grandmother made spaghetti with meat sauce at least once a week. (My mother’s was tastier, but both dishes were dear to my heart.) My mother made lasagna maybe once or twice a month.
    * Other staples were meatloaf, roast beef, and grilled chicken. My grandmother made beef stew with potatoes and carrots every other week.
    * My mother’s quick-and-dirty dish was “cheesy casserole” (au Gratin potatoes with hamburger meat). Every now and then, she swapped the potatoes for macaroni and cheese.
    * Between mashed potatoes and rice, I go with rice every time. My grandmother always served her roast beef with yellow rice and sweet peas (or green beans). Even if everyone else was eating mashed potatoes, she always made sure that I had my yellow rice.
    * If I have to eat mashed potatoes, I’ll mix them with the meat.
    * Like Trump, I like my meat well-done. A medium-rare steak is okay if I’m in the mood, but a burger with blood (or whatever that red stuff is) seeping into the bun makes me want to gag.
    * I order a burger well-done with cheese (Swiss, cheddar, or *one slice* of American), lettuce, onions, ketchup, and mustard. I don’t like tomatoes or pickles. If a pickle is on my plate, I will wipe the pickle juice off the plate before I start eating.
    * I always dip; I never pour. When I see folks pouring ketchup all over their fries and licking the ketchup off their fingers, I feel ill. (I *never* lick food off my fingers. If my fingers start to get messy, I immediately reach for the nearest napkin.)
    * I don’t like cheese fries.
    * Between plain fries and seasoned, I go with seasoned. Among fast-food chains, Checkers’ fries are the best, followed by Arby’s; Burger King’s are the worst. The seasoned red-skinned potatoes at Denny’s are always good.
    * I butter my bread evenly.
    * Between apple, blueberry, and cherry pies, I go with cherry first, then apple.
    * Between vanilla and chocolate ice cream, I tend to go with vanilla.
    * The last time I went to Dairy Queen, I had an Oreo Blizzard.
    * The last time I went to Subway, I had a meatball sub, toasted, on Italian-herbs-and-cheese bread with provolone cheese, lettuce, onions, and black olives.
    * The last time I went to McDonald’s, I had the “buttermilk” chicken strips. They were so tough that I could barely chew them. (Chick-fil-A has the best chicken strips. The ones at KFC aren’t bad.) I ate one or two fries and then threw the rest in the trash. (They were too salty. Sometimes I like salty fries, but on that day I couldn’t stomach them.)
    * The last time I went to Burger King, I had a plain Whopper with lettuce and onions. It was not bad, for what it was. I ate one or two fries and then threw the rest in the trash. (They were too mealy.)
    * The last time I went to Wendy’s, I had a double. It was as good as a Wendy’s double could be. I ate most of the fries. (They weren’t great, but I was hungry.)
    * The last time I went to Taco Bell, I had a chicken quesadilla. It was so-so. The quesadilla came with one crunchy taco, also so-so.
    * I don’t like burritos.
    * The other day, I bought a box of Girl Scout cookies – Thin Mints – for $4. The box seemed smaller than it had in years past, but maybe not.

    If there’s anything else you’d like to know, feel free to ask.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Stan Adams


    If there’s anything else you’d like to know, feel free to ask.

     

    Dark or milk chocolate?

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  141. @AndrewR
    @J.Ross

    I detest fried food in general. It makes me feel like absolute trash. I like food that makes me feel healthy and strong, and fried foods are the opposite of that. Not to mention, they really are not healthful; frying foods pollutes the air; and cooking oil is a fire/burn hazard and is aggravating to dispose of. I literally cannot comprehend why anyone fries food in our modern society.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Pericles, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous

    I literally cannot comprehend why anyone fries food in our modern society.

    Because it’s there.

  142. @White Guy In Japan
    @J.Ross

    No man should drink any cocktail that is green. Or purple. Or with more than two ingredients.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    Not even a Manhattan?!

  143. @guest
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Hello! Japan does, to the extent that they grow the toppest of top selections for whities.

    But they also like baseball, which I find suspicious. Maybe MacArthur forced it on them.

    Replies: @njguy73, @Foreign Expert, @William Badwhite, @whorefinder

    Baseball was popular in Japan well before WW2. In fact, it was so popular that in the 1930s the U.S. government used it as a cover to spy on Japan. The U.S. sent a squad of American all-stars to tour Japan in the winter, which included Babe Ruth, but suspiciously also put a bad-hitting, mediocre-fielding, unknown MLB catcher on the squad as well. His name was Moe Berg, a legitimate MLB player/second-string catcher, who was also secretly a U.S. spy. Berg fed intel learned on his trip back to the U.S. government, which helped them a bunch when war was declared.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Moe_Berg

    Berg’s one of those vague, minor historical figures who seems to enjoy a flourish of re-discovery by sportswriters every 20-30 years and gets hot for a few weeks, usually right before the latest biography about him comes out, and then he goes back into hiding for a generation. I figure it’s because he’s of a ((certain ethnic group)) and fellow (((tribe members))) of each new generation who also like baseball have so few ((tribesman))) in the pages of MLB history that when they find a (((fellow ethnic)))) with such an interesting story they can’t help but celebrate it into the megaphone they control.

    Contrast his story with people like actor Christopher Lee, a genuine special forces dude in WW2, but whose background there was almost never discussed by the media, mostly because Lee didn’t like talking about it and he wasn’t of (((a certain people)).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Retired ballplayer Moe Berg was smuggled into Switzerland in 1944 by the OSS to decide whether the visiting Werner Heisenberg would successfully build a super weapon for Hitler and if is so, shoot the great physicist.

    That's a pretty interesting bit of history.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @whorefinder, @Brutusale

  144. @J.Ross
    @peterike

    The one trick I got from the hilariously decadent and impractical Splendid Table (NPR's admission that they're all rich, forgivable because it's about food) is plonking a chunk of Parmesan into soup or stock at the start and just leaving it there. It will not make everything cheesy, it imparts hard-to-describe between-flavors, and lends depth to whatever other flavors are present. Or, you know, Bam.

    Replies: @peterike, @Jack D

    What you are calling bam is really umami, which is one of the 5 basic tastes (for which Western culture had only 4 words – sweet, sour,salty, bitter). Umami is perceived as savory or brothy but in chemical terms it is what we perceive when our glutamate receptors light up. Many fermented products (cheese, soy sauce, yeast extracts such as Vegemite) are high in glutamates. BTW, there is nothing wrong with MSG – it got a bad rap for no reason, though a little goes a long way.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Jack D

    Thanks Jack. Wasn't aware of this--aware of savory but not what's going on here. Thanks for pointing this out.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Jack D

    Apparently, there is some research on possible fat-detecting taste bud too, although I haven't really looked into that. But it would be a 6th flavor.

    I disagree about umami/savory. As I mentioned in the post about smells, I think savory was a weakly-conceptualized/defined word (which is why it was not more widespread in usage) that tried to describe the same thing as umami.

    My experience with Japanese people is that, while they are more clear about umami than westerners about savory, they are not as clear about umami as about saltiness. This suggests to me a qualitative subjective difference in the umami detection system* that supports my contention that "savoriness" is a wesk attempt to identify umami.

    *BTW, there are clear objective differences in taste systems.

  145. @Stan Adams
    @Peter Akuleyev

    An American's notes on his homeland's trashy food:

    * I don't like root beer, unless it's in a cup with vanilla ice cream.
    * I drink far too much Coke. (That would be Coca-Cola Classic, and not Pepsi-Cola.) I hate Diet Coke.
    * I'm not overly wild about peanut butter, but I do like Reese's peanut-butter cups.
    * For Christmas, someone gave me a "Slice of Joy" gift card from The Cheesecake Factory. (The card came free with a cake she ordered.) I redeemed it for a slice of Reese's Peanut Butter Cup cheesecake.
    * I loathe ranch dressing.
    * My comfort sandwich is a turkey-and-Swiss melt on a croissant with mustard. My comfort breakfast is scrambled eggs with corned beef hash.
    * I like Italian food. My family is not Italian, but when I was a kid both my mother and my grandmother made spaghetti with meat sauce at least once a week. (My mother's was tastier, but both dishes were dear to my heart.) My mother made lasagna maybe once or twice a month.
    * Other staples were meatloaf, roast beef, and grilled chicken. My grandmother made beef stew with potatoes and carrots every other week.
    * My mother's quick-and-dirty dish was "cheesy casserole" (au Gratin potatoes with hamburger meat). Every now and then, she swapped the potatoes for macaroni and cheese.
    * Between mashed potatoes and rice, I go with rice every time. My grandmother always served her roast beef with yellow rice and sweet peas (or green beans). Even if everyone else was eating mashed potatoes, she always made sure that I had my yellow rice.
    * If I have to eat mashed potatoes, I'll mix them with the meat.
    * Like Trump, I like my meat well-done. A medium-rare steak is okay if I'm in the mood, but a burger with blood (or whatever that red stuff is) seeping into the bun makes me want to gag.
    * I order a burger well-done with cheese (Swiss, cheddar, or *one slice* of American), lettuce, onions, ketchup, and mustard. I don't like tomatoes or pickles. If a pickle is on my plate, I will wipe the pickle juice off the plate before I start eating.
    * I always dip; I never pour. When I see folks pouring ketchup all over their fries and licking the ketchup off their fingers, I feel ill. (I *never* lick food off my fingers. If my fingers start to get messy, I immediately reach for the nearest napkin.)
    * I don't like cheese fries.
    * Between plain fries and seasoned, I go with seasoned. Among fast-food chains, Checkers' fries are the best, followed by Arby's; Burger King's are the worst. The seasoned red-skinned potatoes at Denny's are always good.
    * I butter my bread evenly.
    * Between apple, blueberry, and cherry pies, I go with cherry first, then apple.
    * Between vanilla and chocolate ice cream, I tend to go with vanilla.
    * The last time I went to Dairy Queen, I had an Oreo Blizzard.
    * The last time I went to Subway, I had a meatball sub, toasted, on Italian-herbs-and-cheese bread with provolone cheese, lettuce, onions, and black olives.
    * The last time I went to McDonald's, I had the "buttermilk" chicken strips. They were so tough that I could barely chew them. (Chick-fil-A has the best chicken strips. The ones at KFC aren't bad.) I ate one or two fries and then threw the rest in the trash. (They were too salty. Sometimes I like salty fries, but on that day I couldn't stomach them.)
    * The last time I went to Burger King, I had a plain Whopper with lettuce and onions. It was not bad, for what it was. I ate one or two fries and then threw the rest in the trash. (They were too mealy.)
    * The last time I went to Wendy's, I had a double. It was as good as a Wendy's double could be. I ate most of the fries. (They weren't great, but I was hungry.)
    * The last time I went to Taco Bell, I had a chicken quesadilla. It was so-so. The quesadilla came with one crunchy taco, also so-so.
    * I don't like burritos.
    * The other day, I bought a box of Girl Scout cookies - Thin Mints - for $4. The box seemed smaller than it had in years past, but maybe not.

    If there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    If there’s anything else you’d like to know, feel free to ask.

    Dark or milk chocolate?

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Daniel Chieh

    Both are okay, but the edge goes to dark. I'm not all that big on chocolate.

  146. @AndrewR
    @J.Ross

    I detest fried food in general. It makes me feel like absolute trash. I like food that makes me feel healthy and strong, and fried foods are the opposite of that. Not to mention, they really are not healthful; frying foods pollutes the air; and cooking oil is a fire/burn hazard and is aggravating to dispose of. I literally cannot comprehend why anyone fries food in our modern society.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Pericles, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous

    Your perception of what is “healthy” is based on what you have been told, which may or may not be right. Dietary advice keeps shifting. And the dose makes the poison – a piece of fried chicken now and then is not going to kill you. If frying is done properly then the oil does not stay in the food. Because frying renders out the fat from the chicken skin, a piece of fried chicken might have less fat in it that a piece of chicken prepared by another method (not that the fat is necessarily bad for you). If you are having fried chicken with a Coke and a biscuit , the fried chicken is not the problem.

    My wife has the same repulsion to fried foods but she likes a piece of cake now and then and regards cake as yummy, not repulsive like fried food. I keep pointing out to her that a piece of frosted cake has WAY more fat in it than a piece of fried chicken (not to mention that the cake has sugar) but it’s on a completely irrational level.

  147. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Most of what you said is correct but the fear of cold drinks has nothing to do with rationalizing their lack of refrigeration. The very notion of a "cold" is based on the folk belief that disease is caused by cold rather than an infectious agent. The rhinovirus was not discovered until 1956. Most traditional medicine systems associate the cause and/or cure of disease with heat and cold or "hot" and "cold" foods.

    Americans seem to think of cold drinks as a component of the good life and I'll admit that a cold drink on a hot day is indeed refreshing (although I am not a big ice fan - I'd rather have a drink cold but with no ice, thank you). But this is much more culturally bound than you think and cultures where they drink their drinks at greater than mouth numbing temperature are not somehow backward or retarded, just different.

    Americans also have this obsession with refrigeration - if you leave food out without refrigeration for more than 10 minutes, you are gonna die. Cheese was invented as a way of preserving milk WITHOUT refrigeration and you can leave it out for days and nothing will happen to it except that you will be able to taste it because it is not ice cold.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Gringo

    Americans also have this obsession with refrigeration – if you leave food out without refrigeration for more than 10 minutes, you are gonna die. Cheese was invented as a way of preserving milk WITHOUT refrigeration and you can leave it out for days and nothing will happen to it except that you will be able to taste it because it is not ice cold.

    Friends in the Guatemalan highlands, where temperatures averaged about 72 high and 50 low, did not have refrigeration. They would cook up a pot of beans and leave it in an unrefrigerated cabinet with a screen to keep out the flies- rather like an old pie safe- for several days. I ate those unrefrigerated beans and never suffered a moment of illness from doing so.

    Most food tastes are acquired, not genetic, I would tend to believe. I currently eat yerba mate, hot peppers, and cilantro very often. I didn’t eat those until I was an adult.

  148. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Even more of an Anglo/European colonies sort of thing - grilling slabs of beef is the sort of thing when you make only when you have more protein calories than you know what to do with.

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio - i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Steak is foreign to East European cuisine, where meats to come in stews, and all the organs I used. I think it's the same for French cuisine, for Chinese cuisine, frankly for most cuisines so far as I can tell.

    I suspect that steak is something that the Japanese adopted from the Americans because it was cool and prestigious. Being Japanese they went on to make it better than their teachers (just as they did with Scotland/whiskey).

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous, @jeppo, @Joe Stalin

    I’m not sure where the idea that the Japanese eat “steak” comes from.

    As others have noted, they’ve adopted increased beef consumption. It’s happened since they’ve become wealthy. Their beef is famous, but its quality mostly comes from the fact that they aren’t afraid to eat fat.

    The amount of marbling in Japanese meat is unbelievable and unbelievably wonderful. (I’ve cooked steaks at home when I’ve had to pour off the fat rendering out in the middle of cooking, and the steak turns out crispy like a giant piece of bacon.)

    However, they rarely eat steak per se. I remember the first time I went to a steak restaurant here and ordered a filet. I was staring in literally open-mouthed disbelief when they brought me a platter of little pieces of cut up meat carefully arranged with garnish. Getting a big slab of red meat is quite foreign here.

    The most popular way to eat beef is a grilling style called “yakiniku” in which a variety of small pieces of different cuts of meat are grilled by the diner at his table. You can order a slab of beef at this kind of restaurant, but most Japanese will cut it into small pieces before serving it.

    Even in supermarkets, most of the beef is sold in small pieces for inclusion in hot pot dishes or to put over rice, etc.

    Basically, “slab steak” is foreign and exotic to any chopstick culture, including modern Japan.

    I think eating slabs of meat is a European thing that probably has origins in the style of fuel use/fire building. Perhaps it is directly related to the method of animal sacrifice in antiquity. I suspect that is an effect rather than a cause, but my impression is that slab meat is primarily a southern European and Anglo thing with its greatest flowering in the resource-rich New World. USA! USA! USA!

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Chrisnonymous

    What's the difference between yakiniku and Benihana.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  149. @Daniel Chieh
    @J.Ross


    I can’t think of historical examples off the top of my head but am certain that, after a war with shortages, people not only tolerated but “preferred” foods to which they had previously been indifferent.
     
    This was probably the most memorable one to me:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fried_spider

    It is not clear how this practice started, but some have suggested that the population might have started eating spiders out of desperation during the years of Khmer Rouge rule, when food was in short supply

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Everything tastes good deep-fried.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    @Anonymous

    Everything savory is better deep-fried. I’ve never understood deep-fried Mars bars.

  150. @Anonymous
    The black predilection for Kentucky Fried Chicken has always fascinated me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @White Guy In Japan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Alden, @The King is A Fink, @e, @Forbes

    There’s a host of fast food outlets in NYC called Kennedy Fried Chicken. One in Harlem has a logo/graphics design that requires a double-take to realize it doesn’t say Kentucky Fried Chicken…

    Apparently there are many of these places–all under different ownership but predominately A-A owned.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Forbes

    In Eddie Murphy's "Coming to America" he gets a job at McDowell's Hamburgers.

    Replies: @inertial

    , @Jack D
    @Forbes

    No, Kennedy Fried Chicken is always owned by Afghans. The ownership of the trademark is not clear so any Afghan who opens a fried chicken place is free to use it without paying royalties.

    The Afghan who set off bombs in NY , Ahmad Khan Rahami, was in the ghetto fried chicken business:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/nyregion/journey-from-class-clown-to-suspect-in-chelsea-bombing.html

    The article explains how the fried chicken business relates to the chain migration (oop, family reunification) of Afghans. You get off the plane and go to work in another Afghan's fried chicken shop (probably at below minimum wage) and then when you have learned the ropes you open your own. There are an endless number of black ghettos in America so you don't have to compete with your old boss and he is glad to train you (he's probably your cousin and you are married to his sister) in exchange for a few years of cheap labor. Then when you open your shop you send for more relatives.

  151. @AndrewR
    @J.Ross

    I detest fried food in general. It makes me feel like absolute trash. I like food that makes me feel healthy and strong, and fried foods are the opposite of that. Not to mention, they really are not healthful; frying foods pollutes the air; and cooking oil is a fire/burn hazard and is aggravating to dispose of. I literally cannot comprehend why anyone fries food in our modern society.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Pericles, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous

    How people feel after eating is influenced a lot by psychology. For example, my girlfriend will feel nauseous if she can “feel” oil in food, but she happily eats potato chips.

    That said, your description sounds like cheap fried food. Properly done with quality oil, frying is not polluting.

  152. @White Guy In Japan
    @J.Ross

    No man should drink any cocktail that is green. Or purple. Or with more than two ingredients.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    Martini:

    Gin
    Vermouth
    Olive/lemon
    Water

    4 ingredients? Must reject!

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Chrisnonymous

    The olive is a garnish, not an ingredient, and the water is baffling -- I guess you're referring to ice cubes chilling the shaker or to dishwashing? Why not count the shaker and the glass?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    , @MBlanc46
    @Chrisnonymous

    Water in a martini? Quelle horreur!

  153. @Buffalo Joe
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave, I was the only white guy in an affirmative action office. On Fridays we would share a few drinks in the office...Johnny Walker over ice in a glass of milk ! That was a real WTF moment.

    Replies: @Alden, @Dave Pinsen

    That’s not too far off from booze and cream, which is a fairly common combo (White Russians, Bailey’s, etc.).

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave, forgot about White Russians, but back then I was a straight up guy. Thank you

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  154. @Jack D
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Grilled/roasted meat is found in some cuisines and not in others. Partly for reasons of cost (and sometimes religious reasons - Hindus/Buddhists) but also having to do with lifestyle. The climate in E. Europe for much of the year does not encourage outdoor grilling. Cooking and heating was traditionally done with the enclosed tile stove and not the open fireplace. Nor were ovens for roasting a normal feature of home kitchens. So the default method for cooking everything at home was simmering in a pot over low heat.

    French cuisine does feature steak (& frites) although I have the feeling that it is not particularly ancient (a lot of cuisine is more recent than you think - the New World crops of potatoes, tomatoes, corn and hot peppers really changed the entire global diet). Northern Italian (Tuscan) cuisine also feature grilled meat. As does that of many former British colonies - S. Africa, Australia. The British were known for their beef heavy diet. The nomadic cuisine of Central Asia is big on grilled meat but more often lamb than beef and cut in small bits (kebabs) so it will cook quickly on the limited available fuel.

    The Japanese diet traditionally did not include meat at all (for religious reasons) but after the Meiji restoration they made a conscious effort to Westernize and including meat in the diet was part of that. They knew that the Westerners had Magic Dirt and they wanted their dirt to be magic too, but they didn't really know what parts of the Western lifestyle gave you the magic powers. So just to be safe they imitated all of them.

    But cost was a big element for the poor in many countries. The cuisine of the poor rarely features big slabs of meat. If they have meat in their meal at all, it is a little bit of it mixed into a much larger quantity of vegetables.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Daniel Chieh, @Chrisnonymous

    “The Japanese diet did not include meat for religious reasons.”

    FYI, there is a lot of retconning in Japanese history.

    Hawking and hunting were popular pasttimes of the nobility and traditional local dishes in my locality include boar, duck, and venison. How are these things compatible with a meat ban?

    Japan was poor and land needed for crops rather than grazing, and Buddhists discourage consumption of flesh (including fish!). But I am highly skeptical of the idea you promote.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Chrisnonymous

    https://www.kikkoman.co.jp/kiifc/foodculture/pdf_09/e_002_008.pdf

    On the one hand it was supposedly banned. But OTOH, these things are often honored in the breach. Alcohol was banned in the US during Prohibition - we know how well that worked.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  155. @Alden
    @Dave Pinsen

    Steak and French fries with a little salad is on the menu of most French restaurants from freeway rest stop places to the most expensive

    It’s often on both lunch and dinner menus, small portions at lunch buffet at dinner.

    Replies: @Alden, @Dave Pinsen

    Yeah, that’s what I figured. “Steak Frites” is pretty common at a brasseries here.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Dave Pinsen


    “Steak Frites” is pretty common at a brasseries here.
     
    in Hackensack?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  156. @Daniel Chieh
    @Stan Adams


    If there’s anything else you’d like to know, feel free to ask.

     

    Dark or milk chocolate?

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Both are okay, but the edge goes to dark. I’m not all that big on chocolate.

  157. @Forbes
    @Anonymous

    There's a host of fast food outlets in NYC called Kennedy Fried Chicken. One in Harlem has a logo/graphics design that requires a double-take to realize it doesn't say Kentucky Fried Chicken...

    Apparently there are many of these places--all under different ownership but predominately A-A owned.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

    In Eddie Murphy’s “Coming to America” he gets a job at McDowell’s Hamburgers.

    • Replies: @inertial
    @Steve Sailer

    This must be for the same reason they sing odd birthday songs in movies instead of Happy Birthday to You, or use computers like this:

    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/icarly/images/9/96/Creddie-Computer-carly-and-freddie.jpg

  158. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    I don't know if they still make Faygo soda, maybe it was regional, although it started in Michigan. We ordered or requested Faygo by the color as in red pop, green pop, yellow pop and purple pop.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    They still make it. Regional except for Juggalos, for whom it’s a sacrament.

    Many regional sodas exist still. And some long dead. Chicago had Canfield’s still into my youth and maybe still does, but older relatives talked about Green River, a brand that apparently folded in the sixties. Moxie in New England, Vess in St. Louis.

  159. @whorefinder
    @guest

    Baseball was popular in Japan well before WW2. In fact, it was so popular that in the 1930s the U.S. government used it as a cover to spy on Japan. The U.S. sent a squad of American all-stars to tour Japan in the winter, which included Babe Ruth, but suspiciously also put a bad-hitting, mediocre-fielding, unknown MLB catcher on the squad as well. His name was Moe Berg, a legitimate MLB player/second-string catcher, who was also secretly a U.S. spy. Berg fed intel learned on his trip back to the U.S. government, which helped them a bunch when war was declared.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Moe_Berg

    Berg's one of those vague, minor historical figures who seems to enjoy a flourish of re-discovery by sportswriters every 20-30 years and gets hot for a few weeks, usually right before the latest biography about him comes out, and then he goes back into hiding for a generation. I figure it's because he's of a ((certain ethnic group)) and fellow (((tribe members))) of each new generation who also like baseball have so few ((tribesman))) in the pages of MLB history that when they find a (((fellow ethnic)))) with such an interesting story they can't help but celebrate it into the megaphone they control.

    Contrast his story with people like actor Christopher Lee, a genuine special forces dude in WW2, but whose background there was almost never discussed by the media, mostly because Lee didn't like talking about it and he wasn't of (((a certain people)).

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Retired ballplayer Moe Berg was smuggled into Switzerland in 1944 by the OSS to decide whether the visiting Werner Heisenberg would successfully build a super weapon for Hitler and if is so, shoot the great physicist.

    That’s a pretty interesting bit of history.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    And instead of that, Quentin Tarentino gave us a Grand Theft Auto sequel set on the Star Trek Nazi Planet. Hollywood deserves everything it gets.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    , @whorefinder
    @Steve Sailer

    Agreed. Moe Berg led a very interesting life, kind of a teenage boy's dream: professional athlete, friends with superstars, exotic world traveler, but also super-secret spy on the side.

    I wonder if Moe Berg's interesting double life inspired fellow tribesman (((Chuck Barris))) to write Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, a fictionalized account of what Barris thought his double life would be like had he been accepted by the CIA when he'd applied.

    , @Brutusale
    @Steve Sailer

    A few months ago I read The Berlin Project by Gregory Benford. It's an alternative history of the Manhattan Project, and Moe Berg figures prominently. The assassination trip is part of the story.

    Benford's father-in-law is Karl Cohen, who was an assistant to Harold Urey, whose lab was where a lot of the early research on uranium separation was done.

  160. @utu
    Supposedly likess and dislikes of broccoli or cilantro are genetic.

    Children have very strong sense of likes/dislikes. In most cases they get acculturated and end up eating anything within their culture. I am amazed when I hear with a taint of pride from some grown ups: "I do not eat fish" or "I can't stand this or that."

    Replies: @Sandmich, @3g4me

    @95 utu: “Children have very strong sense of likes/dislikes. In most cases they get acculturated and end up eating anything within their culture.”

    There were a lot of things I would not eat as a child, both in response to strong flavors and maternal intransigence regarding any deviation from what she considered the norm. Once on my own I found I enjoyed a lot of things I previously did not, and although there are exceptions, I’ve tried and enjoyed various dishes and flavors around the world (my experimentation does not extend to insects or most organ meats, however).

    I vowed to be far more flexible with my own children. Both were nursed (which supposedly familiarizes babies with different flavors depending on the mother’s diet) and both were allowed to taste and enjoy or spit out food, depending on their preference. My only rule was that they had to try one bite for taste and usually more than once over a period of months, but it didn’t have to be swallowed. FWIW, the older one eats most things (loved lemons and olives and mushrooms and avocado and papaya and lamb and fish even as a toddler). His brother started out an incredibly picky eater and has stayed that way. Far less carnivorous than the rest of the family, much more sensitive to food texture and appearance as well as taste, and far more of a carb hound. So although the genetics and environment and parental rules remained the same, the results were almost polar opposites. Make of it what you will.

  161. Some people prefer artificial whitener in coffee to milk or cream. Possibly this applies more to people who were fed artificial formula as babies, I don’t know. Perhaps this is because in the US cream is often known as “milkfat” and sounds less attractive.

    There is a difference between liking drinks cold and putting ice in them. If you want a really cold drink, it needs to be served from the fridge.

    Adding ice cubes to a room temperature drink only partially cools it, and dilutes the flavor of the drink with melting ice.

    Paradoxically, I prefer my “iced” tea cold from the fridge, not with added ice.

    Some teabags are labelled “iced tea” in the supermarket, when clearly they are just regular teabags. You cannot ice teabags, only the tea that you make from them.

    Most people do not know that tea can be cold-brewed in the fridge. It only takes about half an hour to cold brew a gallon pitcher of tea.

  162. I love anchovies especially on pizza, in fact I don’t really like pizza without anchovies, although I will sometimes eat it just with grilled tomatoes on top, or Hawaian style with pineapple and ham.

    However many pizza shops in the US don’t even have anchovies available, apparently because the whole population is genetically allergic to anchovies, or more likely that they are for some reason not profitable.

  163. @Forbes
    @Anonymous

    There's a host of fast food outlets in NYC called Kennedy Fried Chicken. One in Harlem has a logo/graphics design that requires a double-take to realize it doesn't say Kentucky Fried Chicken...

    Apparently there are many of these places--all under different ownership but predominately A-A owned.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

    No, Kennedy Fried Chicken is always owned by Afghans. The ownership of the trademark is not clear so any Afghan who opens a fried chicken place is free to use it without paying royalties.

    The Afghan who set off bombs in NY , Ahmad Khan Rahami, was in the ghetto fried chicken business:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/nyregion/journey-from-class-clown-to-suspect-in-chelsea-bombing.html

    The article explains how the fried chicken business relates to the chain migration (oop, family reunification) of Afghans. You get off the plane and go to work in another Afghan’s fried chicken shop (probably at below minimum wage) and then when you have learned the ropes you open your own. There are an endless number of black ghettos in America so you don’t have to compete with your old boss and he is glad to train you (he’s probably your cousin and you are married to his sister) in exchange for a few years of cheap labor. Then when you open your shop you send for more relatives.

  164. @Alden
    @Buffalo Joe

    Milk with spirits is a good way to avoid hangovers. It was very popular for a long time. Milk punch and coddle (eggnog) were booze and milk sometimes eggs.

    Supposedly the great Chicago fire was caused by some people having a party. Instead of buying milk for the milk punch they snuck into the O’Leary barn and to milk the cow. The cow struggled and kicked over their kerosene lamp and the fire started.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Buffalo Joe

    Alden, thank you, didn’t know about milk being the anti-hangover drink. I do remember drinking it straight from the cartoon to cool my hot coppers.

  165. @Dave Pinsen
    @Buffalo Joe

    That's not too far off from booze and cream, which is a fairly common combo (White Russians, Bailey's, etc.).

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Dave, forgot about White Russians, but back then I was a straight up guy. Thank you

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Buffalo Joe

    N.P.

    I forgot the name of it, but there's a Mexican alternative to Bailey's that's pretty good, with tequila & cream. It was suggested on as a digestif on a dessert menu at Rosa Mexicano. There's also something called RumChata, which is the same idea with rum. Nice in coffee. In fact, Costco's liquor store sold a box with it and a couple of cans of fancy iced coffee.

  166. So very Off Topic, but I read that Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that she too had a #MeToo incident. What is wrong with men? To hit on that.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    When Bader Ginsburg was in her 20's she was not bad looking. She wasn't always a wizened granny.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Buffalo Joe

    Do you think she was born old?

  167. @Chrisnonymous
    @Jack D

    "The Japanese diet did not include meat for religious reasons."

    FYI, there is a lot of retconning in Japanese history.

    Hawking and hunting were popular pasttimes of the nobility and traditional local dishes in my locality include boar, duck, and venison. How are these things compatible with a meat ban?

    Japan was poor and land needed for crops rather than grazing, and Buddhists discourage consumption of flesh (including fish!). But I am highly skeptical of the idea you promote.

    Replies: @Jack D

    https://www.kikkoman.co.jp/kiifc/foodculture/pdf_09/e_002_008.pdf

    On the one hand it was supposedly banned. But OTOH, these things are often honored in the breach. Alcohol was banned in the US during Prohibition – we know how well that worked.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Jack D

    That's a very typically Japanese article. It claims that Japan is not a meat-eating culture, then, on page 5, details how both domestic livestock and wild game were common in people's diets. Very typically Japanese!

    Similarly, it claims Japan is not really a meat-eating culture even today because Japanese don't eat nose-to-tail. Yet, Japanese eat far more offal than America or Europe. Do you think the author is going to claim that America is lower on the meat-eating scale than Japan?

    As I mentioned, Japan loves retconning, so I always take these explanations of Japan by a Japanese person with a grain of salt.

    Also, there are so many pro forma things in Japan that arguments of the variety "Japanese people held memorial ceremonies for the animals they killed, therefore Japanese people are compassionate" are completely invalid.

    Among expats in Japan, one thing that's famous is that vegetarian food often has meat in it. Japanese people live with contradictions like this all the time.

  168. @Buffalo Joe
    So very Off Topic, but I read that Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that she too had a #MeToo incident. What is wrong with men? To hit on that.

    Replies: @Jack D, @ScarletNumber

    When Bader Ginsburg was in her 20’s she was not bad looking. She wasn’t always a wizened granny.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    Your point is well taken and perhaps better phrased than a certain similar observation which once, long ago, caused a kerfluffe.

  169. @neutral
    @JimH


    SA also has Schweppes Sparkling Grenadilla, which is another flavour you don’t get in the rest of the world.
     
    Granadilla is commonly called passion fruit in many other places, so I am guessing this flavour exists in many places in the world, but I tend find that the Schweppes Granadilla is the best. The name is strange because it is Spanish derived and there was no Spanish presence in South African history. As you would now another unique drink, which is popular amongst the black population, is the creme soda that is green in colour, which some like to mix with spirits to create the "green mamba".

    While on the topic of soft drink trivia, Fanta was an invention of the Third Reich, after war with the USA started the supply of the Coca Cola syrup vanished, so they decided to create Fanta as an alternative. After the war Coca Cola claimed the rights to Fanta which find is a dubious legal claim.

    Replies: @Thea, @ScarletNumber

    Fanta was an invention of the Third Reich

    I think you are misinterpreting things. Fanta was invented during the Third Reich, but not by it per se. Coca-Cola Germany couldn’t get its hands on Coke syrup, so they invented Fanta. Once the war was over, the two branches were able to resume business with each other.

    After the war Coca Cola claimed the rights to Fanta which [I?] find is a dubious legal claim.

    The product the US stole from Germany is aspirin, but that was after World War I as reparations. Aspirin is still a registered trademark of Bayer in Canada, as is obvious by its packaging.

  170. @slumber_j
    @Stephen Marle

    You beat me to it, but yes.

    Also: the business where asparagus makes your urine smell funny has a double-barrel genetic basis. Some people's urine doesn't smell funny after they eat asparagus, and some people's does smell funny but they can't tell. And taste is mostly smell after all.

    Speaking of which, I've tried to find other people over the years who detect the smell of raw silk as I do: I remember standing in a sunny group once waiting to board an airplane outside and suddenly being hammered by the smell, distinctive and nutty. I remarked to my wife that someone must be wearing raw silk in the vicinity, and then spotted the source sweater maybe six feet away. Informal polling reveals that few people even know what I'm talking about.

    Replies: @Miss Laura, @ScarletNumber

    Black people think white people smell like wet dog. I’m sure Steve’s vast black readership will be by soon to confirm.

  171. @Steve Sailer
    @Forbes

    In Eddie Murphy's "Coming to America" he gets a job at McDowell's Hamburgers.

    Replies: @inertial

    This must be for the same reason they sing odd birthday songs in movies instead of Happy Birthday to You, or use computers like this:

  172. @Foreign Expert
    @guest

    Baseball was popular in japan before the war. I think Babe Ruth toured japan.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    As did Moe Berg, as previously discussed this week.

  173. @Alden
    @BenKenobi

    You don’t pay for the ice. You pay for the drink which is full of ice. Or you can just tell the waiter no ice. If it’s one of those drink stations where one fills the cup, just don’t put the cup under the ice despenser

    But with our hot summers. Americans love a glass of ice cubes and soda.

    7-up tastes terrible unless it’s ice cold. Coke tastes bad unless it’s cold Mountain Dew is pretty good tepid.

    A lot of American Mothers don’t keep soda in the house. So we grow up thinking soda is an eating out special treat.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    A lot of American Mothers don’t keep soda in the house. So we grow up thinking soda is an eating out special treat.

    It is 2018, not 1958.

  174. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Even more of an Anglo/European colonies sort of thing - grilling slabs of beef is the sort of thing when you make only when you have more protein calories than you know what to do with.

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio - i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Steak is foreign to East European cuisine, where meats to come in stews, and all the organs I used. I think it's the same for French cuisine, for Chinese cuisine, frankly for most cuisines so far as I can tell.

    I suspect that steak is something that the Japanese adopted from the Americans because it was cool and prestigious. Being Japanese they went on to make it better than their teachers (just as they did with Scotland/whiskey).

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous, @jeppo, @Joe Stalin

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio – i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Argentina and Uruguay are the heart(attack?)land of steak culture.

    The Gaucho culture also follows the racial faultline in South America, with the Iberians and Italians concentrated in the ranching and grain farming temperate zone, and mestizos and mulattoes dominating the plantation-rich tropics. It divides the ‘white steaklands’ of Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul from the rest of Brazil.

    The Argies and Urugs used to eat more than 200 lbs of beef per capita/year, by far the most in the world, but they’re now down to a lean 120 lbs or so.

    http://beef2live.com/story-world-beef-consumption-per-capita-ranking-countries-0-111634

  175. @Buffalo Joe
    So very Off Topic, but I read that Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that she too had a #MeToo incident. What is wrong with men? To hit on that.

    Replies: @Jack D, @ScarletNumber

    Do you think she was born old?

  176. @Dave Pinsen
    @Alden

    Yeah, that's what I figured. "Steak Frites" is pretty common at a brasseries here.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    “Steak Frites” is pretty common at a brasseries here.

    in Hackensack?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @ScarletNumber

    I don't think there's a brasserie in Hackensack. Though if there were a Balthazar-style one in a convenient spot here, it would mint money.

  177. @Jack D
    @Buffalo Joe

    When Bader Ginsburg was in her 20's she was not bad looking. She wasn't always a wizened granny.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Your point is well taken and perhaps better phrased than a certain similar observation which once, long ago, caused a kerfluffe.

  178. @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Retired ballplayer Moe Berg was smuggled into Switzerland in 1944 by the OSS to decide whether the visiting Werner Heisenberg would successfully build a super weapon for Hitler and if is so, shoot the great physicist.

    That's a pretty interesting bit of history.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @whorefinder, @Brutusale

    And instead of that, Quentin Tarentino gave us a Grand Theft Auto sequel set on the Star Trek Nazi Planet. Hollywood deserves everything it gets.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @J.Ross

    Tarentino's film premise was basically an offering to the Jewish film powers. "Hey, remember those comic books where Captain America and Superman punched out Hitler? Well, what if, instead of evil white goyim doing it, it were a crack squadron of bloodthirsty Jewish special forces soldiers?"

    Basically, this was Tarantino's comic book film.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @guest

  179. @Chrisnonymous
    @White Guy In Japan

    Martini:

    Gin
    Vermouth
    Olive/lemon
    Water

    4 ingredients? Must reject!

    Replies: @J.Ross, @MBlanc46

    The olive is a garnish, not an ingredient, and the water is baffling — I guess you’re referring to ice cubes chilling the shaker or to dishwashing? Why not count the shaker and the glass?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @J.Ross

    The olive or lemon peel is definitely not a garnish. In fact, the drink is so different depending on which you use, I think it is fair to say they are different drinks.

    I would never shake my martini, but ice should be placed in the mixing vessel and the whole should be stirred a few times. This imparts a small amount of water to the drink, and some cocktail experts believe this is an important part of the drink.

    You can argue that the water is not an ingredient because there is so little of it in the drink, but then what do you say of the vermouth?

    When I started drinking martinis, I used to keep the gin in the freezer so as not to need the ice. However, I now refrigerate it instead and stir with ice, and I do think that makes a better drink.

    (I also drink gin and other spirits straight sometimes, so it's not like I don't appreciate a strong drink.)

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @MBlanc46
    @J.Ross

    No ice needed if you chill the gin and the glass beforehand.

  180. @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Retired ballplayer Moe Berg was smuggled into Switzerland in 1944 by the OSS to decide whether the visiting Werner Heisenberg would successfully build a super weapon for Hitler and if is so, shoot the great physicist.

    That's a pretty interesting bit of history.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @whorefinder, @Brutusale

    Agreed. Moe Berg led a very interesting life, kind of a teenage boy’s dream: professional athlete, friends with superstars, exotic world traveler, but also super-secret spy on the side.

    I wonder if Moe Berg’s interesting double life inspired fellow tribesman (((Chuck Barris))) to write Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, a fictionalized account of what Barris thought his double life would be like had he been accepted by the CIA when he’d applied.

  181. @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    And instead of that, Quentin Tarentino gave us a Grand Theft Auto sequel set on the Star Trek Nazi Planet. Hollywood deserves everything it gets.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    Tarentino’s film premise was basically an offering to the Jewish film powers. “Hey, remember those comic books where Captain America and Superman punched out Hitler? Well, what if, instead of evil white goyim doing it, it were a crack squadron of bloodthirsty Jewish special forces soldiers?”

    Basically, this was Tarantino’s comic book film.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @whorefinder

    A triumph for him, an aging bucket of clams stored at room temperature for us. His other recent efforts temper my enthusiasm over his deft grasp of the Hollywood scene.
    He did achieve a great coup for objectivity if you've read his reaction to the Israeli screening, though.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    , @guest
    @whorefinder

    Turns out the film isn't really about the Jewish Dozen. That was a gimmick they swiftly got past. Mostly, it's about the hero-villain Jew-hunter played by Christoph Waltz. To a lesser degree it's about the Jewish girl who runs away and eventually gets her revenge, but she's not much of a character and doesn't come off as particularly Jewish.

    Brad Pitt--as the non-Jewish leader of the Jewish Dozen--Diane Kruger--as a German film star turned spy--Michael Fassbender--as a British spy--Daniel Bruhl--as a Nazi war hero--and various other characters get more attention and development than the Jewish characters, as I recall.

    Tarantino delivered a potentially blue-ballish revenge fantasy, but I don't think anyone cared so long as Hitler got it in the end. Plus, we could pretend we weren't revelling once again in Fascinatin' Fascism because Waltz got a swastika carved into his forehead. Which modern medicine was equipped to deal with.

  182. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Antlitz Grollheim

    Even more of an Anglo/European colonies sort of thing - grilling slabs of beef is the sort of thing when you make only when you have more protein calories than you know what to do with.

    So I would imagine a steak culture is something imprinted into national cultures where there was, at one point, a large cattle/capita ratio - i.e., settler countries characterized by large expanses of grasslands.

    Steak is foreign to East European cuisine, where meats to come in stews, and all the organs I used. I think it's the same for French cuisine, for Chinese cuisine, frankly for most cuisines so far as I can tell.

    I suspect that steak is something that the Japanese adopted from the Americans because it was cool and prestigious. Being Japanese they went on to make it better than their teachers (just as they did with Scotland/whiskey).

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jack D, @Chrisnonymous, @jeppo, @Joe Stalin

    African-Americans love Outback Steakhouse for some reason.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Joe Stalin

    Solidarity with Aborigines?

  183. @Chrisnonymous
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I'm not sure where the idea that the Japanese eat "steak" comes from.

    As others have noted, they've adopted increased beef consumption. It's happened since they've become wealthy. Their beef is famous, but its quality mostly comes from the fact that they aren't afraid to eat fat.

    The amount of marbling in Japanese meat is unbelievable and unbelievably wonderful. (I've cooked steaks at home when I've had to pour off the fat rendering out in the middle of cooking, and the steak turns out crispy like a giant piece of bacon.)

    However, they rarely eat steak per se. I remember the first time I went to a steak restaurant here and ordered a filet. I was staring in literally open-mouthed disbelief when they brought me a platter of little pieces of cut up meat carefully arranged with garnish. Getting a big slab of red meat is quite foreign here.

    The most popular way to eat beef is a grilling style called "yakiniku" in which a variety of small pieces of different cuts of meat are grilled by the diner at his table. You can order a slab of beef at this kind of restaurant, but most Japanese will cut it into small pieces before serving it.

    Even in supermarkets, most of the beef is sold in small pieces for inclusion in hot pot dishes or to put over rice, etc.

    Basically, "slab steak" is foreign and exotic to any chopstick culture, including modern Japan.

    I think eating slabs of meat is a European thing that probably has origins in the style of fuel use/fire building. Perhaps it is directly related to the method of animal sacrifice in antiquity. I suspect that is an effect rather than a cause, but my impression is that slab meat is primarily a southern European and Anglo thing with its greatest flowering in the resource-rich New World. USA! USA! USA!

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    What’s the difference between yakiniku and Benihana.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @ScarletNumber

    yakiniku is a style of restaurant, whereas Benihana is a restsurant name. I've never eaten at a Benihana, so I can't tell you whether or not it's a yakiniku restaurant.

    Replies: @üeljang

  184. @Anonymous
    @Neoconned

    I love boiled peanuts! They are popular here in peanut producing districts of Japan, like Chiba. It's easier to boil up some peanuts than it is to roast them, if you have a bunch of raw peanuts. And peanuts are easy to grow. Just put a raw peanut in the ground, and wait a few months. There's a super-colossal sized peanut variety here in Japan that is perfect when boiled.

    Replies: @Neoconned

    I have memories as a child of going to festivals or fairs with my grandfather who worked them in his traveling business. I recall I think in Natchez Mississippi they had a balloon festival I think in 1994 and this big fat redneck had a big old vat tub of peanuts and they’d scoop them out with a strainer and sell them to you in a big ziplock bag for a buck. Literally on the banks of the Mississippi River overhanging the riverboats and barge traffic….bright sunny hot day.

    All those small town southern fairs had a big old fat white redneck or black guy with an apron and a chefs hat sometimes.

    I dunno how they’re cooked in Japan but here they just add tons of salt. And it’s strange because I’m not really into salty food but this stuff is like crack.

    Do you know if they add Asian spices to them in Japan?

  185. You know, at restaurants like Red Lobster it is common for blacks to ask for ALL the dressings on their salad. Yeah, ranch, blue cheese, thousand island… all poured on together.

    Maybe they think they’re getting more for their money. But good lord who could eat that?

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Peterike

    If you go to Red Lobster on Sunday, not only will the place be filled with blacks, but they will be dressed in their Sunday best.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @Ivy
    @Peterike

    ranch dressing and ketchup, aka retchup.

  186. Ian from Forgotten Weapons has a six-part series on full30.com called “British Ration Week” during World War 2. He stated he got interested in this because rationing actually resulted in BETTER nutrition for the people:

    https://www.full30.com/video/b3396416c246a46ffd86781b23c65172

  187. @whorefinder
    @J.Ross

    Tarentino's film premise was basically an offering to the Jewish film powers. "Hey, remember those comic books where Captain America and Superman punched out Hitler? Well, what if, instead of evil white goyim doing it, it were a crack squadron of bloodthirsty Jewish special forces soldiers?"

    Basically, this was Tarantino's comic book film.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @guest

    A triumph for him, an aging bucket of clams stored at room temperature for us. His other recent efforts temper my enthusiasm over his deft grasp of the Hollywood scene.
    He did achieve a great coup for objectivity if you’ve read his reaction to the Israeli screening, though.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @J.Ross

    I enjoyed it once I realized it was a pure comic fantasy designed to assuage Jewish egos about their weakness in just rolling over and doing what the Nazis ordered and needing Big Allied Whitey to come in and save them.

    When I realized it was just silliness on that level, I started laughing. Of course, this was halfway though watching it in the theater in New York City, so when I started laughing (somewhere around where c-movie director Eli Roth--beats-up-a-Nazi-with-a-baseball-bat), the audience started looking over at me with wide eyes. My laughter clearly was not at the "funny" parts and was pretty mocking, which of course ((certain audience)) members detected but were likely not to understand why I was mocking it.

    What's even funnier is that I think Tarantino was mocking it in the same manor it made me laugh. It's notable that the blond female theater owner who burns the theater down to kill Hitler is.....actually Jewish. I think her name was even Shoshanna.

    But importantly is that she has black male lover.

    So in the very movie where Tarantino is serving up a Jewish revenge/comic book bloodfest drama against Nazis that so many Jews would enjoy on that level----he's forcing them to unite that with the image of one of their own women cucking them with a schvartze.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  188. @Bob Smith of Suburbia
    Pizza man, 15+ years. They love Sprite.

    They *love* Sprite.

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @Father O'Hara, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    I think some of that may be due to the way Sprite is marketed. That “Obey Your Thirst” campaign that had going for a decade or two…I can scarcely imagine something which would alienate me more. I think it was somehow intended to appeal to Black people, however. I’m not really sure how (other than that most of the people who appeared in that advertising campaign were Black themselves).

  189. @J.Ross
    @whorefinder

    A triumph for him, an aging bucket of clams stored at room temperature for us. His other recent efforts temper my enthusiasm over his deft grasp of the Hollywood scene.
    He did achieve a great coup for objectivity if you've read his reaction to the Israeli screening, though.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    I enjoyed it once I realized it was a pure comic fantasy designed to assuage Jewish egos about their weakness in just rolling over and doing what the Nazis ordered and needing Big Allied Whitey to come in and save them.

    When I realized it was just silliness on that level, I started laughing. Of course, this was halfway though watching it in the theater in New York City, so when I started laughing (somewhere around where c-movie director Eli Roth–beats-up-a-Nazi-with-a-baseball-bat), the audience started looking over at me with wide eyes. My laughter clearly was not at the “funny” parts and was pretty mocking, which of course ((certain audience)) members detected but were likely not to understand why I was mocking it.

    What’s even funnier is that I think Tarantino was mocking it in the same manor it made me laugh. It’s notable that the blond female theater owner who burns the theater down to kill Hitler is…..actually Jewish. I think her name was even Shoshanna.

    But importantly is that she has black male lover.

    So in the very movie where Tarantino is serving up a Jewish revenge/comic book bloodfest drama against Nazis that so many Jews would enjoy on that level—-he’s forcing them to unite that with the image of one of their own women cucking them with a schvartze.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @whorefinder

    Yeah he talks about how stunned he was that the first Israeli audience took it completely seriously and then gave it a standing ovation.

    Replies: @whorefinder

  190. @Jack D
    @J.Ross

    What you are calling bam is really umami, which is one of the 5 basic tastes (for which Western culture had only 4 words - sweet, sour,salty, bitter). Umami is perceived as savory or brothy but in chemical terms it is what we perceive when our glutamate receptors light up. Many fermented products (cheese, soy sauce, yeast extracts such as Vegemite) are high in glutamates. BTW, there is nothing wrong with MSG - it got a bad rap for no reason, though a little goes a long way.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous

    Thanks Jack. Wasn’t aware of this–aware of savory but not what’s going on here. Thanks for pointing this out.

  191. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    That’s just common southern food. Blacks in food, as in many other things, are just southerners by culture.
     
    So true. My Georgia-born white mom, who moved to Los Angeles as a young woman, loved it when she found a "soul food" restaurant, the greens, the cornbread, etc. And she's quite the critic when the food doesn't live up to her memories.

    I do remember the little 6-1/2 ounce bottles of Coke, by the wooden case, piled up in my grandparents house near Atlanta. They really drank that stuff like water.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    I grew up in the South. My wife is from a very warm country in Asia. Similar foods. One of the family recipes is an Asian dish that is almost exactly like shrimp gumbo. Much of the food she liked was also similar to black Caribbean food.

    We used to live in New York City. At one point my wife and I had jobs in black neighborhoods in Brooklyn that were close to each other — her at a hospital, me at Medgar Evers College. Sometimes we would meet for some Soul Food or Caribbean food, and we would be the only non-blacks in the place. My students at Medgar Evers College were sometimes surprised by the food I would be munching on as I got to class. Stuff like Jamaican beef patties, which a local store sold for only $1 each.

    At one point I lived with a Chinese family in Taiwan. They would notice what I ate, cook those dishes more often, and push them closer to my rice bowl. At one point I realized I was constantly eating fried chicken, ribs, watermelon, etc. I had turned into a stereotype.

    As far as growing up with Soul Food, that was all on the school lunch plates. My town in the South was one of the very earliest places to integrate the schools. At the time of first integration the Superintendent was a Deep South Southerner. One day representatives of the local black community went to his office to request the schools start serving Soul Food at lunch. He asked what Soul Food was. Greens, cornbread, black-eyed peas, fried chicken, etc. The school superintendent replied that was all the good Southern food he grew up on, and ordered the schools to serve that food.

    My father, on the other hand, came from a New England family, dating back to 1620. Sometimes my mother would cook New England style food. I could NEVER get used to tongue, Welsh rarebit, etc. Sorry, but I prefer southern cuisine.

    This thread is making me hungry!

  192. @guest
    @BenKenobi

    Too true. Here in MN, 9 months of the year we threw cases of pop in the nearest snowdrift while we're walking 8 miles uphill both ways to school, and enjoyed them at our leisure.

    The rest of the year we drank lake water and liked it!

    Replies: @Ivy

    One of the many joys of skiing is a chilled beverage retrieved from a snowbank. Grape (champagne, Asti, etc), grain (beer, vodka, etc), or maybe tequila, your choice.

  193. @Peterike
    You know, at restaurants like Red Lobster it is common for blacks to ask for ALL the dressings on their salad. Yeah, ranch, blue cheese, thousand island... all poured on together.

    Maybe they think they’re getting more for their money. But good lord who could eat that?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Ivy

    If you go to Red Lobster on Sunday, not only will the place be filled with blacks, but they will be dressed in their Sunday best.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @ScarletNumber


    If you go to Red Lobster on Sunday, not only will the place be filled with blacks, but they will be dressed in their Sunday best.
     
    Same here at my local KFC.
  194. @whorefinder
    @J.Ross

    I enjoyed it once I realized it was a pure comic fantasy designed to assuage Jewish egos about their weakness in just rolling over and doing what the Nazis ordered and needing Big Allied Whitey to come in and save them.

    When I realized it was just silliness on that level, I started laughing. Of course, this was halfway though watching it in the theater in New York City, so when I started laughing (somewhere around where c-movie director Eli Roth--beats-up-a-Nazi-with-a-baseball-bat), the audience started looking over at me with wide eyes. My laughter clearly was not at the "funny" parts and was pretty mocking, which of course ((certain audience)) members detected but were likely not to understand why I was mocking it.

    What's even funnier is that I think Tarantino was mocking it in the same manor it made me laugh. It's notable that the blond female theater owner who burns the theater down to kill Hitler is.....actually Jewish. I think her name was even Shoshanna.

    But importantly is that she has black male lover.

    So in the very movie where Tarantino is serving up a Jewish revenge/comic book bloodfest drama against Nazis that so many Jews would enjoy on that level----he's forcing them to unite that with the image of one of their own women cucking them with a schvartze.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Yeah he talks about how stunned he was that the first Israeli audience took it completely seriously and then gave it a standing ovation.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @J.Ross

    The failure of Jews to rise up en masse against the Nazi threat of mass extermination is a very psychologically damaging point to Jews who have thought about it. It emphasizes the Jewish stereotypes of being weak, effeminate, obsequious, and cowering: take a Woody Allen character and make him tragic. Defeat is never easy for a people to stomach, but a rolling over and letting them slit your belly---that is extremely troubling.

    The movie is ever bit as unrealistically jingoistic towards Jews as the Nazi propaganda film-within-the-film is as unrealistically jingoistic towards Aryans; Tarantino was pointing that out by comparison. Yet Jews don't seem to understand that, or, if they do, get swept away by the emotion of finally getting to sock ol' Adolph on the jaw.

    Tarantino was probably shocked because most of the Jews he's worked with in movies have probably been very knowledgeable about film, themes, and techniques, but Jews overall completely missed the boat on this one and didn't see how their pretensions and fantasies were being mocked. Luckily for Tarantino's sake.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  195. @Peterike
    You know, at restaurants like Red Lobster it is common for blacks to ask for ALL the dressings on their salad. Yeah, ranch, blue cheese, thousand island... all poured on together.

    Maybe they think they’re getting more for their money. But good lord who could eat that?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Ivy

    ranch dressing and ketchup, aka retchup.

  196. @ScarletNumber
    @Dave Pinsen


    “Steak Frites” is pretty common at a brasseries here.
     
    in Hackensack?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    I don’t think there’s a brasserie in Hackensack. Though if there were a Balthazar-style one in a convenient spot here, it would mint money.

  197. @Buffalo Joe
    @Dave Pinsen

    Dave, forgot about White Russians, but back then I was a straight up guy. Thank you

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    N.P.

    I forgot the name of it, but there’s a Mexican alternative to Bailey’s that’s pretty good, with tequila & cream. It was suggested on as a digestif on a dessert menu at Rosa Mexicano. There’s also something called RumChata, which is the same idea with rum. Nice in coffee. In fact, Costco’s liquor store sold a box with it and a couple of cans of fancy iced coffee.

  198. @J.Ross
    @whorefinder

    Yeah he talks about how stunned he was that the first Israeli audience took it completely seriously and then gave it a standing ovation.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    The failure of Jews to rise up en masse against the Nazi threat of mass extermination is a very psychologically damaging point to Jews who have thought about it. It emphasizes the Jewish stereotypes of being weak, effeminate, obsequious, and cowering: take a Woody Allen character and make him tragic. Defeat is never easy for a people to stomach, but a rolling over and letting them slit your belly—that is extremely troubling.

    The movie is ever bit as unrealistically jingoistic towards Jews as the Nazi propaganda film-within-the-film is as unrealistically jingoistic towards Aryans; Tarantino was pointing that out by comparison. Yet Jews don’t seem to understand that, or, if they do, get swept away by the emotion of finally getting to sock ol’ Adolph on the jaw.

    Tarantino was probably shocked because most of the Jews he’s worked with in movies have probably been very knowledgeable about film, themes, and techniques, but Jews overall completely missed the boat on this one and didn’t see how their pretensions and fantasies were being mocked. Luckily for Tarantino’s sake.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @whorefinder

    German Jews who failed to fight or flee when the Nazis took power were behaving rationally. There had been no massacres of Jews in Germany since the Middle Ages. That kind of thing was associated with wild Russians and Slavs, not the level headed Germans. Nazism was a temporary madness which would soon pass.

  199. I like gobou and one of my favorite dishes is kimpira gobou (which I enjoy blandly mispronouncing as chimpira gobou, just because). But when I serve it, non-Orientals will generally pick out the gobou — the best part!
    I love yakisoba, ramen is okay, but you could not whomp me with a hickory switch hard enough to make me eat udon.
    I won’t drink milk, but enjoy it on cereal and use it in cooking. I love root beer, and I like ice cream, but won’t touch a root-beer float.
    I decided I liked quesadillas with huitlacoche filling before I knew what huitlacoche was; had someone told me what it was just after I had finished eating my first one, I would have barfed chunks.
    Not a fan of eggs. When I ask people why they so enjoy eating the amniotic fluid, placenta equivalent and embryo of a bird, they look baffled. When I explain, they either glance at their plate and look slightly sick or — more often — glare at me with annoyance.
    Of course, there is always that guy — and it’s always a guy — who responds, “Nothing better than fresh amniotic fluid to start your day with!”

  200. @ScarletNumber
    @Chrisnonymous

    What's the difference between yakiniku and Benihana.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    yakiniku is a style of restaurant, whereas Benihana is a restsurant name. I’ve never eaten at a Benihana, so I can’t tell you whether or not it’s a yakiniku restaurant.

    • Replies: @üeljang
    @Chrisnonymous

    Benihana is teppanyaki (cooking on a hot griddle), which is, strictly speaking, one variety of yakiniku. However, the current standard in Japan is jikabi amiyaki (broiling on a fine grill placed over a visible flame). Jikabi amiyaki allows the melted fat from the meat to drip away into the fire, lending the cooked meat a crispy texture. Teppanyaki usually results in meat that has a moist, oily texture.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  201. @J.Ross
    @Chrisnonymous

    The olive is a garnish, not an ingredient, and the water is baffling -- I guess you're referring to ice cubes chilling the shaker or to dishwashing? Why not count the shaker and the glass?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    The olive or lemon peel is definitely not a garnish. In fact, the drink is so different depending on which you use, I think it is fair to say they are different drinks.

    I would never shake my martini, but ice should be placed in the mixing vessel and the whole should be stirred a few times. This imparts a small amount of water to the drink, and some cocktail experts believe this is an important part of the drink.

    You can argue that the water is not an ingredient because there is so little of it in the drink, but then what do you say of the vermouth?

    When I started drinking martinis, I used to keep the gin in the freezer so as not to need the ice. However, I now refrigerate it instead and stir with ice, and I do think that makes a better drink.

    (I also drink gin and other spirits straight sometimes, so it’s not like I don’t appreciate a strong drink.)

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Chrisnonymous

    >some cocktail experts
    >a shot is the same thing as trace amounts
    Okay.

  202. @Joe Stalin
    @Anatoly Karlin

    African-Americans love Outback Steakhouse for some reason.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Solidarity with Aborigines?

  203. @Jack D
    @J.Ross

    What you are calling bam is really umami, which is one of the 5 basic tastes (for which Western culture had only 4 words - sweet, sour,salty, bitter). Umami is perceived as savory or brothy but in chemical terms it is what we perceive when our glutamate receptors light up. Many fermented products (cheese, soy sauce, yeast extracts such as Vegemite) are high in glutamates. BTW, there is nothing wrong with MSG - it got a bad rap for no reason, though a little goes a long way.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous

    Apparently, there is some research on possible fat-detecting taste bud too, although I haven’t really looked into that. But it would be a 6th flavor.

    I disagree about umami/savory. As I mentioned in the post about smells, I think savory was a weakly-conceptualized/defined word (which is why it was not more widespread in usage) that tried to describe the same thing as umami.

    My experience with Japanese people is that, while they are more clear about umami than westerners about savory, they are not as clear about umami as about saltiness. This suggests to me a qualitative subjective difference in the umami detection system* that supports my contention that “savoriness” is a wesk attempt to identify umami.

    *BTW, there are clear objective differences in taste systems.

  204. @Chrisnonymous
    @J.Ross

    The olive or lemon peel is definitely not a garnish. In fact, the drink is so different depending on which you use, I think it is fair to say they are different drinks.

    I would never shake my martini, but ice should be placed in the mixing vessel and the whole should be stirred a few times. This imparts a small amount of water to the drink, and some cocktail experts believe this is an important part of the drink.

    You can argue that the water is not an ingredient because there is so little of it in the drink, but then what do you say of the vermouth?

    When I started drinking martinis, I used to keep the gin in the freezer so as not to need the ice. However, I now refrigerate it instead and stir with ice, and I do think that makes a better drink.

    (I also drink gin and other spirits straight sometimes, so it's not like I don't appreciate a strong drink.)

    Replies: @J.Ross

    >some cocktail experts
    >a shot is the same thing as trace amounts
    Okay.

  205. @Jack D
    @Chrisnonymous

    https://www.kikkoman.co.jp/kiifc/foodculture/pdf_09/e_002_008.pdf

    On the one hand it was supposedly banned. But OTOH, these things are often honored in the breach. Alcohol was banned in the US during Prohibition - we know how well that worked.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    That’s a very typically Japanese article. It claims that Japan is not a meat-eating culture, then, on page 5, details how both domestic livestock and wild game were common in people’s diets. Very typically Japanese!

    Similarly, it claims Japan is not really a meat-eating culture even today because Japanese don’t eat nose-to-tail. Yet, Japanese eat far more offal than America or Europe. Do you think the author is going to claim that America is lower on the meat-eating scale than Japan?

    As I mentioned, Japan loves retconning, so I always take these explanations of Japan by a Japanese person with a grain of salt.

    Also, there are so many pro forma things in Japan that arguments of the variety “Japanese people held memorial ceremonies for the animals they killed, therefore Japanese people are compassionate” are completely invalid.

    Among expats in Japan, one thing that’s famous is that vegetarian food often has meat in it. Japanese people live with contradictions like this all the time.

  206. @Chrisnonymous
    @ScarletNumber

    yakiniku is a style of restaurant, whereas Benihana is a restsurant name. I've never eaten at a Benihana, so I can't tell you whether or not it's a yakiniku restaurant.

    Replies: @üeljang

    Benihana is teppanyaki (cooking on a hot griddle), which is, strictly speaking, one variety of yakiniku. However, the current standard in Japan is jikabi amiyaki (broiling on a fine grill placed over a visible flame). Jikabi amiyaki allows the melted fat from the meat to drip away into the fire, lending the cooked meat a crispy texture. Teppanyaki usually results in meat that has a moist, oily texture.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @üeljang

    Ah!
    I've often wondered at the origin of the teppan. Do you think it originated from something native or comes from the US occupation era? (It looks like institutional cooking.) My guess would be the latter, but I'm open to other interpretations.

  207. Two cursory observations of US black culinary habits from a white Southerner, both borne out by decades of noticing:

    – Of all the ethnic cuisines, I have more often witnessed a higher incidence of blacks at Asian restaurants, especially Japanese. Rarely have I gone to a teppan yaki place where there wasn’t a black couple, or more typically a large group, seated at one of the grills. Invariably they enjoy the show the chef puts on, and seem to love the food.

    – At the other extreme, I can count on my hands the number of times in 30+ years I’ve been regularly going to bagel shops that I’ve seen black patrons there – and those few times its almost always been a single black female in the company of white friends. In fact I was wondering why “as rare as a black guy in a bagel joint” isn’t already an aphorism.

  208. @üeljang
    @Chrisnonymous

    Benihana is teppanyaki (cooking on a hot griddle), which is, strictly speaking, one variety of yakiniku. However, the current standard in Japan is jikabi amiyaki (broiling on a fine grill placed over a visible flame). Jikabi amiyaki allows the melted fat from the meat to drip away into the fire, lending the cooked meat a crispy texture. Teppanyaki usually results in meat that has a moist, oily texture.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Ah!
    I’ve often wondered at the origin of the teppan. Do you think it originated from something native or comes from the US occupation era? (It looks like institutional cooking.) My guess would be the latter, but I’m open to other interpretations.

  209. @Anon
    @ the American love of cold drinks is indicative of the U.S.’s traditionally high standard of living.

    Dear God. To each his own, I suppose. But the American love of cold Cokes, cold sodas, is rather indicative of American low standards of living. Drinks manufactured industrially, full of artificial flavors, toe-curlingly sweet and bad for human health, that is a sign of progress?!? The fact that they have to numb the palate with ice and spend heavily to indoctrinate the consumer should make one pause and, well, take notice.

    Replies: @EdwardM

    How about cold water? Any restaurant in America will bring water with ice by default, whereas in Europe and China they don’t.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @EdwardM

    They can't keep their ice makers clean enough.

    , @MBlanc46
    @EdwardM

    When we lived briefly in Houston in the early 1950s, my father would go to a diner to order a 5 cent cup of coffee just to get the ice water. Or so I’m told.

  210. @ScarletNumber
    @Peterike

    If you go to Red Lobster on Sunday, not only will the place be filled with blacks, but they will be dressed in their Sunday best.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    If you go to Red Lobster on Sunday, not only will the place be filled with blacks, but they will be dressed in their Sunday best.

    Same here at my local KFC.

  211. @EdwardM
    @Anon

    How about cold water? Any restaurant in America will bring water with ice by default, whereas in Europe and China they don't.

    Replies: @TWS, @MBlanc46

    They can’t keep their ice makers clean enough.

  212. @whorefinder
    @J.Ross

    Tarentino's film premise was basically an offering to the Jewish film powers. "Hey, remember those comic books where Captain America and Superman punched out Hitler? Well, what if, instead of evil white goyim doing it, it were a crack squadron of bloodthirsty Jewish special forces soldiers?"

    Basically, this was Tarantino's comic book film.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @guest

    Turns out the film isn’t really about the Jewish Dozen. That was a gimmick they swiftly got past. Mostly, it’s about the hero-villain Jew-hunter played by Christoph Waltz. To a lesser degree it’s about the Jewish girl who runs away and eventually gets her revenge, but she’s not much of a character and doesn’t come off as particularly Jewish.

    Brad Pitt–as the non-Jewish leader of the Jewish Dozen–Diane Kruger–as a German film star turned spy–Michael Fassbender–as a British spy–Daniel Bruhl–as a Nazi war hero–and various other characters get more attention and development than the Jewish characters, as I recall.

    Tarantino delivered a potentially blue-ballish revenge fantasy, but I don’t think anyone cared so long as Hitler got it in the end. Plus, we could pretend we weren’t revelling once again in Fascinatin’ Fascism because Waltz got a swastika carved into his forehead. Which modern medicine was equipped to deal with.

  213. @Stephen Marle
    Given all the weird things that genetic researchers ask their subjects, there may be data on this. Didn't they establish that a dislike of cilantro is genetic (if you have a fold on your earlobe and your left hand third finger is longer than your fourth)?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @TTSSYF, @slumber_j, @Kyle

    Coca cola is formulated to be drinken over ice. The syrup is so concentrated that it needs to be poured in a cup filled half way with ice in order for the sweetness to balance correctly. all soda pop is like that, designed to taste great out of the fountain over ice.

  214. It’s not only blacks who like grape soda, or “pop” as we Chicagoans have it. Concord grape juice is pretty good stuff, too. Hold the cough syrup and Skittles, though.

  215. @EdwardM
    @Anon

    How about cold water? Any restaurant in America will bring water with ice by default, whereas in Europe and China they don't.

    Replies: @TWS, @MBlanc46

    When we lived briefly in Houston in the early 1950s, my father would go to a diner to order a 5 cent cup of coffee just to get the ice water. Or so I’m told.

  216. @White Guy In Japan
    @J.Ross

    No man should drink any cocktail that is green. Or purple. Or with more than two ingredients.

    Replies: @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    If a Negroni counts as purple, I must respectfully disagree.

  217. @anonymous
    @anonymous coward

    I've been told that in the UK the Limeys prefer their ale served at something close to room temperature--or at least certainly not cold.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

    Cellar temperature—in the 50s F. Top fermented ales are quite complex. Chilling them too much deadens the flavor.

  218. @Mr. Anon
    @J.Ross


    If I am ever caught burning it all down my widely compelling reason will be that, on ordering a martini, the waitress asks, what kind? Apple?
     
    Aye. Or being asked "What kind of Vodka do you want?", or, if you stipulate that you want olives, being asked "You want that dirty?"

    Gin. Vermouth. Olives. What is so difficult to grasp about that? This is the recipe for the platonic ideal of "Martini".

    Replies: @MBlanc46

    Vermouth, or the thought of vermouth, at least.

  219. @Anonymous
    @Daniel Chieh

    Everything tastes good deep-fried.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

    Everything savory is better deep-fried. I’ve never understood deep-fried Mars bars.

  220. @Chrisnonymous
    @White Guy In Japan

    Martini:

    Gin
    Vermouth
    Olive/lemon
    Water

    4 ingredients? Must reject!

    Replies: @J.Ross, @MBlanc46

    Water in a martini? Quelle horreur!

  221. @J.Ross
    @Chrisnonymous

    The olive is a garnish, not an ingredient, and the water is baffling -- I guess you're referring to ice cubes chilling the shaker or to dishwashing? Why not count the shaker and the glass?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    No ice needed if you chill the gin and the glass beforehand.

  222. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @whorefinder
    @J.Ross

    The failure of Jews to rise up en masse against the Nazi threat of mass extermination is a very psychologically damaging point to Jews who have thought about it. It emphasizes the Jewish stereotypes of being weak, effeminate, obsequious, and cowering: take a Woody Allen character and make him tragic. Defeat is never easy for a people to stomach, but a rolling over and letting them slit your belly---that is extremely troubling.

    The movie is ever bit as unrealistically jingoistic towards Jews as the Nazi propaganda film-within-the-film is as unrealistically jingoistic towards Aryans; Tarantino was pointing that out by comparison. Yet Jews don't seem to understand that, or, if they do, get swept away by the emotion of finally getting to sock ol' Adolph on the jaw.

    Tarantino was probably shocked because most of the Jews he's worked with in movies have probably been very knowledgeable about film, themes, and techniques, but Jews overall completely missed the boat on this one and didn't see how their pretensions and fantasies were being mocked. Luckily for Tarantino's sake.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    German Jews who failed to fight or flee when the Nazis took power were behaving rationally. There had been no massacres of Jews in Germany since the Middle Ages. That kind of thing was associated with wild Russians and Slavs, not the level headed Germans. Nazism was a temporary madness which would soon pass.

  223. @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Retired ballplayer Moe Berg was smuggled into Switzerland in 1944 by the OSS to decide whether the visiting Werner Heisenberg would successfully build a super weapon for Hitler and if is so, shoot the great physicist.

    That's a pretty interesting bit of history.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @whorefinder, @Brutusale

    A few months ago I read The Berlin Project by Gregory Benford. It’s an alternative history of the Manhattan Project, and Moe Berg figures prominently. The assassination trip is part of the story.

    Benford’s father-in-law is Karl Cohen, who was an assistant to Harold Urey, whose lab was where a lot of the early research on uranium separation was done.

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