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Are Men or Women Better at Drawing?
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What do you think?

Personally, I can’t remember noting any differences in drawing ability between boys and girls at my coed elementary school. All I can remember is that I was pretty bad at drawing, although I still drew a whole lot of airplanes. Now that I think about it, I can remember taking drawing in summer school after my 4th grade year from Mrs. Wise and being impressed with some of my drawings. But I think Mrs. Wise was good at teaching the various tricks that can make a not terribly coordinated 9-year-old look okay.

Since 8th grade, I haven’t had all that much experience with males and females drawing.

My guess, from going to art museums, would be that, in the usual pattern, at the extreme right edge of the distribution of drawing skills, out there with Raphael (there is, to the best of my knowledge, one Raphael in Southern California, at the Norton Simon museum in Pasadena, and it’s a stunner), there are more males than females.

But, on average, I’d imagine the sexes are pretty similar. Girls would have better fine-motor skills and boys would tend to have more visual imagination, especially 3-d, so they’d come out pretty similar.

In reality, however, the above popular science article is a hoax made up for a study. They also made up a mirror image version in which males are better at drawing. And they made up articles in which females and males are better at a negative trait, lying.

The researchers wanted to find out if modern people are biased in favor of men or of women. From PLOS One:

People react more positively to female- than to male-favoring sex differences: A direct replication of a counterintuitive finding

Steve Stewart-Williams ,Xiu Ling Wong,Chern Yi Marybeth Chang,Andrew G. Thomas
Published: March 30, 2022
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0266171

Research on sex differences is sometimes controversial. From the sociobiology wars of the 1970s to the scandals surrounding Lawrence Summers and James Damore, various culture-war flare-ups have centered on unwelcome claims about differences between men and women. Some commentators [Ann Althouse] point out, however, that not all sex-difference claims are equally likely to arouse concern or consternation. One potentially important factor shaping people’s reactions to research on sex differences is whether the findings paint men or women in a better light. At first glance, there would appear to be three main predictions about how this would impact people’s reactions (assuming it impacts them at all).

  • Anti-Female Bias: People will react more positively to male-favoring findings.
  • Pro-Female Bias: People will react more positively to female-favoring findings.
  • Gender Tribalism: Men will react more positively to male-favoring findings; women will react more positively to female-favoring findings. …

The aversion to male-favoring sex differences is contrary to what many would expect and could have significant theoretical and practical implications—shedding light, for instance, on the conduct and reception of research on sex differences, challenging common views about gender stereotypes and gender-ingroup bias, and helping quell conflict between the sexes. As such, it is important to assess the replicability of the finding. That was the aim of the present study. More precisely, the aim was to conduct a direct replication of our initial study on the topic, with a comparable Western sample and the same materials. The hypotheses below are based on the results of the earlier study, which was pre-registered with OSF (https://osf.io/6n5up/).

  • Participants will react more positively to female- than male-favoring sex differences.
  • Participant sex will have no impact on the strength of this effect.
  • The more privileged that participants think men are over women, the more negatively they will react to male-favoring differences and the more positively to female-favoring differences.
  • The more that participants lean to the left politically, the more negatively they will react to male-favoring differences. Political orientation will not predict reactions to female-favoring differences.
  • Both sexes will greatly overestimate the extent to which the average man and woman exhibit a preference for own-sex-favoring sex differences.

Note that Hypotheses 1 and 5 are the same as the original study, as the results were consistent with our hypotheses; Hypothesis 2 differs from the original study (we initially predicted that the preference for female-favoring findings would be stronger for female participants, but did not find this); and Hypotheses 3 and 4 were not part of the original study (the patterns emerged through exploratory analysis).

So, we live in a culture biased in favor of science favoring women. But our biases are less based on our sex than on our political ideology, with leftists being notably anti-male.

Abstract
We report a direct replication of our earlier study looking at how people react to research on sex differences depending on whether the research puts men or women in a better light. Three-hundred-and-three participants read a fictional popular-science article about fabricated research finding that women score higher on a desirable trait/lower on an undesirable one (female-favoring difference) or that men do (male-favoring difference). Consistent with our original study, both sexes reacted less positively to the male-favoring differences, with no difference between men and women in the strength of this effect. Also consistent with our original study, belief in male privilege and a left-leaning political orientation predicted less positive reactions to the male-favoring sex differences; neither variable, however, predicted reactions to the female-favoring sex differences (in the original study, male-privilege belief predicted positive reactions). As well as looking at how participants reacted to the research, we looked at their predictions about how the average man and woman would react. Consistent with our earlier results, participants of both sexes predicted that the average man and woman would exhibit considerable own-sex favoritism. In doing so, they exaggerated the magnitude of the average woman’s own-sex favoritism and predicted strong own-sex favoritism from the average man when in fact the average man exhibited modest other-sex favoritism. A greater awareness of people’s tendency to exaggerate own-sex bias could help to ameliorate conflict between the sexes.

 
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  1. I remember seeing a TV show which explored evolutionary sex differences.

    Seemed to indicate that males are better at drawing. At least, they are able to draw things more accurately from memory, like for example, a bicycle drawn by a male will tend to have more parts than one drawn by a female.

    I can also remember back to elementary school, and I don’t think anyone noticed it as a general rule, but the people who were acknowledged the best drawers (also by the girls) were male.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @songbird

    I saw that same show. It was a long time ago, probably at least 25 years, but the first thing I thought of when I saw this post was that bicycle drawing test.

    One of the show's other observations was that men are much more likely to organize into rules-based groups and pursue goals to extremities, even for absurd ends. To illustrate this, they showcased a group of Buddhist monks who had painted themselves silver and ran up into the mountains carrying a log, or something like that. The narrator said that no group of women would behave like that. They would deliberate about the idea first, and then almost certainly would have rejected it.

    This is somewhat contradicted by the general opinion of mankind that women tend be both more sociable and more conformist, while men are much more deliberative. I think this demonstrates that there is a great deal of subjectivity involved when it comes to naming and classifying behavior. And let's not even get started with the theoretical impossibilities of evolution.

    , @Kaiser Soze
    @songbird

    The Human Sexes by Desmond Morris

  2. While I have no idea which sex is better worldwide [an impossible task], I can definitely aver that male artists are far better draughtsmen at the far right of the bell curve. Eg, there are no women in the same league as Auguste Rodin, Henry Moore, da Vinci, Rubens, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, William Kentridge, Durer, and Degas

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @Meretricious

    That's not just drawing, it's painting.

    Camille Paglia said something like 'There is no female Mozart just as there is no female Jack the Ripper.'

    I am not sure of that, Lizzie Borden among others gave Jack a run for his money in the murder stakes.

    One thing for sure, looking at a feminist art book trying to push many woman painters into the western canon years ago, the most striking point was that just about all were obsessed with self-portraiture.

    Frida Kahlo as an obvious example, but most of the earlier ones in the book were the same, to centuries earlier.

    As for drawing as such, boys, sadly, are better or more imaginative. Comics everywhere attest to it.

    Same with technical drawing, before it was replaced by CAD software.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @J.Ross, @Veteran Aryan

    , @james wilson
    @Meretricious

    Yes of course. Women, like the vast majority of us, don't live on the lip of the bell. But for everyone else it is as Goethe observed--the nature of women is art. They are also far more prone than men to dancing, and also singing (in tune) popular songs complete with lyrics. I've even noticed this with professional musicians. Women notice everything, even things not worth noticing, and especially things you would prefer they not notice. They also identify more colors. Because they are always noticing It's all part of their original design, Nesting, not so much in vogue any longer around the West.

    , @HammerJack
    @Meretricious

    Funny that you cite Michelangelo (who had a surname) by his first name and Leonardo (who didn't) by his place of origin.

    Oh yeah. The next post is about autists.

  3. In my experience- there is no difference between sexes in drawing. Just, it seems that high artistic painting is an ultra-male profession (there are, percentage-wise, more prominent female chemists & physicists than female painters).

    Women also don’t excel in “serious” music (except as performers).

    But- they do in imaginative literature, from genre fiction to canonical high literature (Compton-Burnett, Yourcenar, Akhmatova,..).

    As far as differences go- it is frequently over-emphasized how men are “mechanically” oriented. I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian


    it is frequently over-emphasized how men are “mechanically” oriented. I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.
     
    It's not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let's say (I'm making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can't, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don't even have spare tire - you look in the trunk and there's a can of fix-a-flat.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @james wilson, @The Alarmist

    , @John Pepple
    @Bardon Kaldian


    I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills.
     
    I'd go with Kant over Heidegger regarding mechanical skills. Heidegger was just a philosopher, whereas Kant was more than that. For example, he proposed a theory for the formation of the planets, so he has a place in the history of astronomy and not just the history of philosophy.
  4. My handwriting is terrible. Best I can do is write one character at a time. I have noticed that women have excellent handwriting. But then I was at the golf driving range yesterday. The few women who were there hit the ball as poorly as I assume they could throw it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Richter

    I can recall reading in golf magazines in the 1970s that women golfers were superior at the delicate shots around the green due to their better fine-motor skills. This made sense, but by the 1980s as more and more women's golf tournaments were on TV, this was clearly not true. The extremely non-feminine John Daly's performance on the famous 18th green at St. Andrew's on final day of the British Open in 1995 was perhaps the final blow to this one-sensible sounding theory:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U_bIL6dpcs

    Replies: @Danindc

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Richter

    My impression is that golf is a sort of white collar hunting game: you wander around a landscape armed with weapons, but it's not a blood sport. It emerged first as an obsession among increasingly bourgeois lowland Scots who eventually led to the Scottish Enlightenment.

    Hence it's not surprising that males are better at golf skills than women.

    Replies: @james wilson

  5. Who were the test subjects, random people or people who already drew?

  6. @Steve Richter
    My handwriting is terrible. Best I can do is write one character at a time. I have noticed that women have excellent handwriting. But then I was at the golf driving range yesterday. The few women who were there hit the ball as poorly as I assume they could throw it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer

    I can recall reading in golf magazines in the 1970s that women golfers were superior at the delicate shots around the green due to their better fine-motor skills. This made sense, but by the 1980s as more and more women’s golf tournaments were on TV, this was clearly not true. The extremely non-feminine John Daly’s performance on the famous 18th green at St. Andrew’s on final day of the British Open in 1995 was perhaps the final blow to this one-sensible sounding theory:

    • Replies: @Danindc
    @Steve Sailer

    I can’t believe you fell for that. Seve was around as early as 1976. Trevino, Player, even Chi Chi. Were you a big JoAnn Carner fan lol.

    Also, what did Daly do so special on the 18th that day? Constantino Rocca made the long putt after the flub.

  7. Guys create some really nice drawings you can follow and make things.

    • Thanks: HammerJack
  8. You didn’t see the revisionist tale where Leonardo da Vinci was really a girl but she disguised herself to get into the right art school?

    • Replies: @Alvin
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    The art schools are like 85-15 in favor of women, with at least half the 15% males gay. Same with fashion school.

  9. Personally, I can’t remember noting any differences in drawing ability between boys and girls at my coed elementary school.

    What I remember from 8th grade, which was the last time I had to take an art class, is that the boys who liked drawing really, really liked drawing and did it obsessively. This was way less the case among the girls.

    Whether that’s because the more artistic boys had a greater and therefore more nagging talent or whether obsessive dedication to practicing a skill is a more masculine trait is open to question. But either way, obsessive practice in something is gonna make you a lot better at it in the end.

  10. @Steve Richter
    My handwriting is terrible. Best I can do is write one character at a time. I have noticed that women have excellent handwriting. But then I was at the golf driving range yesterday. The few women who were there hit the ball as poorly as I assume they could throw it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer

    My impression is that golf is a sort of white collar hunting game: you wander around a landscape armed with weapons, but it’s not a blood sport. It emerged first as an obsession among increasingly bourgeois lowland Scots who eventually led to the Scottish Enlightenment.

    Hence it’s not surprising that males are better at golf skills than women.

    • Replies: @james wilson
    @Steve Sailer

    Billiards requires no physical demands. Yet the very best professional female billards players keep to their own tournements, and golf is a sport that demands much more of their diminished physical strength.

  11. If my experience in school is representative, men are the majority of those who draw well, but the ratio of men to women is not exceptionally high. Women predominate in decorative crafts, men in practical crafts.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Art Deco

    "Women predominate in decorative crafts ..."

    It's the rare woman who doesn't overstuff a room with bric-a-brac, knickknacks, and gewgaws. Men, of which I am quite the specimen, prefer spare, sparse, and ultimately empty space. The only adornments attached to my walls are my sketches of Buddy Ebsen in various modes of swimwear. Remember, Labor Day is nearing -- Planet of the Apes Fanfest 2022 at the Hilton Garden Inn in Burbank. Here's an idea: the post office where Steve keeps his b.o. box is quite near the hotel. I thought we could take a drive over there, park, and wait and see if he shows up.

    Replies: @additionalMike, @ForeverCARealist

  12. Modern Leftist ideology (which is the dominant ideology) is all about flipping the totem pole. Sure, straight white men have been on top for the last couple of thousand years at least, but that’s only because they got there by repressing everyone else.

    The natural state of thing is that white men are BAD at everything (except maybe shooting up elementary schools and repressing other people, but we’re not going to allow that from now on) and women, people of color and LGBTQ+ people are the best at everything. If you are some combination of the above, then even better!

    So it goes without saying that, even though the art museums are filled mostly with paintings by male artists, women are naturally better at drawing since women are naturally better at EVERYTHING, as long as you don’t stop to think about it. The latter part is very important – no thinking allowed, just go with your automatic reaction based on your brainwashing.

    It’s interesting BTW that women are not that good at drawing given their ability to do fine detail work. Back in the day, every young woman was supposed to produce a “sampler” which was an example of her needlework skills. In addition to stitching the alphabet, typically there were also pictures rendered in embroidery. In surviving examples, the quality of the pictures varies from awful to quite nice:

    I gather though that the pictures were quite often copied from other sources. If women lack the spatial orientation to do original drawing you would think that they would at least have the focus to do the fine detail work. To some extent that is true and for example the people who were employed to hand decorate china (a form of painting) were often female.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Unintended Consequence
    @Jack D

    It's easy to find pictures of Samplers from the 1800s. Yours is obviously modern and not much of a Sampler at that. I don't know why you'd cast aspersions on needlework or would even bother to notice such a hobby. I can't imagine what hobbies you have other than excessively commenting on someone else's blog but I'd probably find them typical enough as to be unremarkable.

    A lesson for you, Jack: In this world people have wide latitude to do as they like and think as they like. You'll get much more satisfaction out of life if you recognize this fact.

    , @International Jew
    @Jack D

    You don't need fine motor coordination to draw well. In fact many art teachers encourage you to draw big, swinging from the elbow and even the shoulder.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bill P, @Chrisnonymous

    , @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    I think if you're talking about those in the tail of the bell curve, whose work might be displayed in a museum which values craftsmanship, you might find the ratio if men to women is quite high. If you're looking at a school art class composed of those with some basic competence, not so much.

    One thing I suspect is that college-level studio art instruction is in our time largely a fraud. See Emma Sulkowicz, who was given course credits by Columbia's art faculty for lugging around a mattress for several weeks. I used to have a gander at the student work on display at my employer's galleries and I recall flat nothing pleasing much less impressive. Every once in a while, someone from the art program would produce an oversize outdoor sculpture. The local frat brothers would give a frank and honest assessment of it by hauling it off under the cover of darkness and dumping it in the man made lake on campus.

    I should mention that I've a shirt-tail who took a studio degree at what I'm told is one of the most selective studio art programs in the country (ranked in the top ten). I'm told by others who attended her graduation with me that the student work on display which made extensive use of digital technology was episodically impressive. I just looked at the old school painting, drawing, and sculpture. Every once in a while you'd find something that looked like the producer had some actual skill to be developed. I'm talking about two or three people in a three-digit graduating class. (My shirt-tail makes rent working for department stores and vends her product online. It looks like paint-by-numbers work).

    Here's an unsolicited suggestion for the budget-conscious board of trustees: shut down your studio art program and put its faculty out on the curb. And if you don't have at least four art historians on campus who specialize in the study of work produced prior to 1920, get rid of your art history faculty as well.

    Replies: @International Jew, @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    Hey, no fair to Aesop in that second picture: that fox can easily reach those grapes.

    , @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    A lot of electronics assembly is done by women. They're better than men at closework. Smaller fingers of course, but there's probably more to it than that. After all, the skills involved in manipulating tiny electronic components are the same as those involved in extracting peas from pods, plucking nuts and berries from shrubs, pulling up small plants, and similar activities involved in the "gathering" part of the premodern human "hunting and gathering" way of life. Women have been doing these things for a very long time.

    (The female love of shopping is also a legacy of this. The only reason high street stores still exist at all is because of the female urge to go out with friends and collect "stuff".)

  13. @Bardon Kaldian
    In my experience- there is no difference between sexes in drawing. Just, it seems that high artistic painting is an ultra-male profession (there are, percentage-wise, more prominent female chemists & physicists than female painters).

    Women also don't excel in "serious" music (except as performers).

    But- they do in imaginative literature, from genre fiction to canonical high literature (Compton-Burnett, Yourcenar, Akhmatova,..).

    As far as differences go- it is frequently over-emphasized how men are "mechanically" oriented. I'm certain that Kant or Heidegger didn't have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.

    Replies: @Jack D, @John Pepple

    it is frequently over-emphasized how men are “mechanically” oriented. I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.

    It’s not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let’s say (I’m making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can’t, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don’t even have spare tire – you look in the trunk and there’s a can of fix-a-flat.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Jack D

    Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never needed to change a flat tire. But like a lot of guys my age from the snowier parts of the country, I used to swap summer tires for snow tires and back every October and April.

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    , @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Jack D


    It’s not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let’s say (I’m making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can’t, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don’t even have spare tire – you look in the trunk and there’s a can of fix-a-flat.
     
    Given the elementary mechanical nature of changing a tire, I have to imagine that most people of either sex who would say that they "can't" really just lack the confidence to try. Orienting and working the bottle jack might be the most challenging element, but once you've seen it done how can you not understand how it works? My mother claims not to be able to pump her own gas, so her life's plan for getting gas is to send my stepfather out for it, patronize full-service stations, or fill up in New Jersey (for those who don't know there is no self-service gas in New Jersey). She grew up driving before self-service was common, and was married young and had two sons who wound up being mobile gas station attendants for a good while. But I doubt that if she was in a situation in which those options were limited and she absolutely had to pump her own gas that she couldn't figure it out in one go.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @james wilson
    @Jack D

    One cynic wrote millennials are one flat tire out of cell phone coverage away from the next Donner party.

    , @The Alarmist
    @Jack D

    Apropos changing tyres, a moment of Zen from the Bee:


    Demi Lovato Identifies As 'She/Her' Again After Discovering Her Car's Flat Tire

    https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/62ead26abdb3362ead26abdb34.jpg


    source: https://babylonbee.com/news/demi-lovato-identifies-as-sheher-after-discovering-her-cars-flat-tire/

  14. “What I remember from 8th grade, which was the last time I had to take an art class, is that the boys who liked drawing really, really liked drawing and did it obsessively. This was way less the case among the girls.”

    I remember this. One kid could draw like perfect Looney Toons style cartoons and was obsessed with it, cuz he was good.

    One area we have pretty objective data now is chess talent, women cannot crack world top 100 (although they have). Of course when they do it’s awesome and they receive nothing but encouragement, but women probably can’t recreate that eighth grade obsessive chess phase the top male players had, which serves as a base for when they go next level. Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Cosmohicks


    Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers.
     
    I doubt this because women are proven to be capable of doing writing and comedy at a high level - unlike say chess, there are known top 100 female writers and comedians and these existed long before the woke AA era.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Reg Cæsar

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Cosmohicks

    "Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers."

    How could you say such a thing? There are great female comics, like er.. this one!

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/aug/09/amy-gledhill-review-monkey-barrel-edinburgh

    https://i.postimg.cc/Yq2h9htF/amygledhill.webp


    The Girl Before the Girl You Marry, Amy Gledhill calls her new show, which traces a life of watching ex-boyfriends swiftly get hitched.
     
    For some reason, Lord knows what it might be, all her ex-boyfriends then get hitched elsewhere. I think this should be filed under tragicomedy.

    Elsewhere in the Graun:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/10/obese-patients-weight-shamed-doctors-nurses


    Doctors and nurses often “weight-shame” people who are overweight or obese, leaving them feeling anxious, depressed and wrongly blaming themselves for their condition, research has found.

    Such behaviour, although usually the result of “unconscious weight bias”, leads to people not attending medical appointments, feeling humiliated and being more likely to put on weight.

    The problem is so widespread around the world that health professionals need to be taught as students that excess weight is almost guaranteed in modern society and not the fault of individuals, so they treat people more sensitively, according to the authors of the study, who have shared their findings with the Guardian.

    ...

    Their analysis found that a number of health professionals “believe their patients are lazy, lack self-control, overindulge, are hostile, dishonest, have poor hygiene and do not follow guidance”, said Kalea, an associate professor in UCL’s division of medicine.
     

    To be fair, most doctors, health care assistants and nurses will have a horror story about a morbidly obese patient with whole colonies of little known organisms living in the damp and sheltered environment of their flesh folds.
  15. I guess that explains nearly all those Dutch Masters, Impressionists, etc. and why most modern comics were/are drawn by CIS-Males.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @The Alarmist

    Dutch & French male privilege.

  16. In the beginning stages of learning drawing (as in learning anything else), there is a lot of rule-following, immitation, and disciplined work. At least up through undergraduate university age, these meta-skills are superior in women, what with their higher propensity toward conformity and submission. So, they may perform better in art classes on average.

  17. @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian


    it is frequently over-emphasized how men are “mechanically” oriented. I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.
     
    It's not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let's say (I'm making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can't, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don't even have spare tire - you look in the trunk and there's a can of fix-a-flat.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @james wilson, @The Alarmist

    Maybe I’m just lucky but I’ve never needed to change a flat tire. But like a lot of guys my age from the snowier parts of the country, I used to swap summer tires for snow tires and back every October and April.

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    @International Jew

    It also depends where you are when the tire goes.
    Two years ago I had a blowout on the freeway at 75 mph in the center lane and just barely wrestled it to the right shoulder.

    Front left tire shredded.

    I was not changing anything with my back to the road on the side of the freeway with everyone zipping along at 75 minimum.

    I called a tow truck and let that guy take me to a nearby tire shop.
    He told me he’d been doing it 20 years and no one ever slows down.

    Never change a tire on the side of the freeway.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ian M.

  18. anon[394] • Disclaimer says:

    Three main predictions about how this would impact people’s reactions . . .

    Anti-Female Bias
    Pro-Female Bias
    Gender Tribalism

    Ironically, naming their three categories with this system is both awkward (‘female’ has an extra syllable and is a word purposefully remodelled by culture to resemble the simpler ‘male’) and unintuitive (‘male’ doesn’t appear in the categories, even though the research is equally about both sexes). It is gynecentric; an example of pro-female bias. Or is that anti-male bias?

  19. They should follow up with a study like this but along lines of race. Imagine what would happen if they said, “According to a Harvard study, though Black and white children are equally gifted at math, Black children appear better endowed with the raw talent for solving partial differential equations in their head.” I figure:
    1. 95% of test subjects would respond favorably or extremely favorably, with 50% actually experiencing an orgasm.
    2. A few would leak the “findings” to the news media, where it would make front-page headlines.
    3. Congress would appropriate a trillion dollars for a Manhattan Project to train black mathematicians.

  20. From experience (fossils in the mm-size range are impossible to photogaph
    in sufficient detail and must be drawn under the bino using a special prism)
    males and females are equally abysmal; I do have to note the good
    (read: recognizable) ones are almost all male.

  21. @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Richter

    I can recall reading in golf magazines in the 1970s that women golfers were superior at the delicate shots around the green due to their better fine-motor skills. This made sense, but by the 1980s as more and more women's golf tournaments were on TV, this was clearly not true. The extremely non-feminine John Daly's performance on the famous 18th green at St. Andrew's on final day of the British Open in 1995 was perhaps the final blow to this one-sensible sounding theory:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U_bIL6dpcs

    Replies: @Danindc

    I can’t believe you fell for that. Seve was around as early as 1976. Trevino, Player, even Chi Chi. Were you a big JoAnn Carner fan lol.

    Also, what did Daly do so special on the 18th that day? Constantino Rocca made the long putt after the flub.

  22. @Jack D
    Modern Leftist ideology (which is the dominant ideology) is all about flipping the totem pole. Sure, straight white men have been on top for the last couple of thousand years at least, but that's only because they got there by repressing everyone else.

    The natural state of thing is that white men are BAD at everything (except maybe shooting up elementary schools and repressing other people, but we're not going to allow that from now on) and women, people of color and LGBTQ+ people are the best at everything. If you are some combination of the above, then even better!


    So it goes without saying that, even though the art museums are filled mostly with paintings by male artists, women are naturally better at drawing since women are naturally better at EVERYTHING, as long as you don't stop to think about it. The latter part is very important - no thinking allowed, just go with your automatic reaction based on your brainwashing.

    It's interesting BTW that women are not that good at drawing given their ability to do fine detail work. Back in the day, every young woman was supposed to produce a "sampler" which was an example of her needlework skills. In addition to stitching the alphabet, typically there were also pictures rendered in embroidery. In surviving examples, the quality of the pictures varies from awful to quite nice:

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/09/14/07/13/1d119a4d-e897-4ba5-af17-695079c53a96/2006BF5312-boxer-sampler-1280.jpg

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/16/11/08/14/d9053d10-63ab-4706-8676-86bbf4d3e3ea/2018LE4007-1950s-sampler.jpg

    I gather though that the pictures were quite often copied from other sources. If women lack the spatial orientation to do original drawing you would think that they would at least have the focus to do the fine detail work. To some extent that is true and for example the people who were employed to hand decorate china (a form of painting) were often female.

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence, @International Jew, @Art Deco, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous

    It’s easy to find pictures of Samplers from the 1800s. Yours is obviously modern and not much of a Sampler at that. I don’t know why you’d cast aspersions on needlework or would even bother to notice such a hobby. I can’t imagine what hobbies you have other than excessively commenting on someone else’s blog but I’d probably find them typical enough as to be unremarkable.

    A lesson for you, Jack: In this world people have wide latitude to do as they like and think as they like. You’ll get much more satisfaction out of life if you recognize this fact.

  23. @Jack D
    Modern Leftist ideology (which is the dominant ideology) is all about flipping the totem pole. Sure, straight white men have been on top for the last couple of thousand years at least, but that's only because they got there by repressing everyone else.

    The natural state of thing is that white men are BAD at everything (except maybe shooting up elementary schools and repressing other people, but we're not going to allow that from now on) and women, people of color and LGBTQ+ people are the best at everything. If you are some combination of the above, then even better!


    So it goes without saying that, even though the art museums are filled mostly with paintings by male artists, women are naturally better at drawing since women are naturally better at EVERYTHING, as long as you don't stop to think about it. The latter part is very important - no thinking allowed, just go with your automatic reaction based on your brainwashing.

    It's interesting BTW that women are not that good at drawing given their ability to do fine detail work. Back in the day, every young woman was supposed to produce a "sampler" which was an example of her needlework skills. In addition to stitching the alphabet, typically there were also pictures rendered in embroidery. In surviving examples, the quality of the pictures varies from awful to quite nice:

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/09/14/07/13/1d119a4d-e897-4ba5-af17-695079c53a96/2006BF5312-boxer-sampler-1280.jpg

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/16/11/08/14/d9053d10-63ab-4706-8676-86bbf4d3e3ea/2018LE4007-1950s-sampler.jpg

    I gather though that the pictures were quite often copied from other sources. If women lack the spatial orientation to do original drawing you would think that they would at least have the focus to do the fine detail work. To some extent that is true and for example the people who were employed to hand decorate china (a form of painting) were often female.

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence, @International Jew, @Art Deco, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous

    You don’t need fine motor coordination to draw well. In fact many art teachers encourage you to draw big, swinging from the elbow and even the shoulder.

    • LOL: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @International Jew

    But you would then expect women to do well in some specialties such as the painting of miniature portraits where you definitely have to use fine motor skills.

    Also, even if you render the general outlines of a painting in broad strokes, there is a lot of fine detail work. If you look at a high res scan of the Mona Lisa you will see that not only has Leonardo rendered the embroidery of her dress but that he has actually rendered each stitch with light and shadow and when the threads cross in a loop you can see which thread is on top and which one is underneath - in other words there is an insane amount of detail that can only be done with extremely fine brushwork.

    Replies: @International Jew

    , @Bill P
    @International Jew

    I could draw quite well when I was in grade school despite hardly being able to write legibly due to having essential tremor, which takes a toll on fine motor tasks but leaves large motor skills unscathed.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @International Jew

    You guys are both wrong. The basic skills of drawing are visual and conceptual.

    The fundamental drawing skill is learning to see, and the quintessential example is eyes on a portrait. Untrained people often try to draw eyes in top 1/3 of a face because this is where they believe eyes to be. Learning to draw involves breaking this connection between what's actually seen in the 2D visual field and what we believe the world to be like. It is almost the opposite of the skill engineers and architects need to mentally visualize 3D space.

    What you and JackD are disagreeing about are two unrelated points. JackD thinks art is like surgery, where a steady hand is needed. But the analogy is bad because of things like erasers and artists' ability to choose--Leonardo didn't have paint all the embroidery stitches on the Mona Lisa, and this is not what makes the painting great. On the other hand, drawing "from the elbow" is about creating line quality. Many students try to create lines by building up many small strokes by picking at the paper, and this creates un-beautiful lines. However, drawing from the elbow is not a solution. "Small" drawing occurs when students don't really know what they're doing--it is a knowledge and confidence problem, solved by learning to see and then learning which marks are necessary to represent something beautifully.

  24. I was (am) terrible at drawing. But in 8th grade I kind of taught myself to draw the bows of ships. So I had a lot of “down hard by the stern” sinkings with ice bergs nearby.

  25. @Meretricious
    While I have no idea which sex is better worldwide [an impossible task], I can definitely aver that male artists are far better draughtsmen at the far right of the bell curve. Eg, there are no women in the same league as Auguste Rodin, Henry Moore, da Vinci, Rubens, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, William Kentridge, Durer, and Degas

    Replies: @Che Guava, @james wilson, @HammerJack

    That’s not just drawing, it’s painting.

    Camille Paglia said something like ‘There is no female Mozart just as there is no female Jack the Ripper.’

    I am not sure of that, Lizzie Borden among others gave Jack a run for his money in the murder stakes.

    One thing for sure, looking at a feminist art book trying to push many woman painters into the western canon years ago, the most striking point was that just about all were obsessed with self-portraiture.

    Frida Kahlo as an obvious example, but most of the earlier ones in the book were the same, to centuries earlier.

    As for drawing as such, boys, sadly, are better or more imaginative. Comics everywhere attest to it.

    Same with technical drawing, before it was replaced by CAD software.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Che Guava

    Lizzie Bordan was profoundly different than the obsessive, sexually-driven hunter Jack the Ripper. I think boys are more driven than girls to express/assert themselves through drawing.

    Replies: @Che Guava

    , @J.Ross
    @Che Guava

    Joseph Campbell correctly points out that in the strictest sense Frida Kahlo was not an artist. Kahlo did pictures of her inner world, which cannot be wrong, and are only accidentally interesting to anyone else. An artist by the old rules could be wrong a million ways and was interested in true universals which interest everybody. This is why we still have copies of pictures from the Renaissance but not necessarily from painters from 10-30 years ago.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Veteran Aryan
    @Che Guava


    ... looking at a feminist art book trying to push many woman painters into the western canon years ago, the most striking point was that just about all were obsessed with self-portraiture.
     
    When you look at Facebook profiles, the most common thing you will see is women posting selfies and then everyone telling them how beautiful they are. The notable difference between the profiles comes in just who is telling them that they are beautiful. Sometimes it's many men who have never even meet the women. For others it's a bunch of men that they do know. Sometimes it's all their female friends telling them how absolutely gorgeous they are. And sometimes it's men from other countries who can barely speak English telling the hideous beast how incredibly beautiful they are and they should get to know each other.

    I go through a lot of Facebook profiles in the process of screening potential renters. Many of the selfies are so heavily filtered that I can barely recognize the women, even though I have recently seen them in person. Selfies and filters allow each woman to produce their own self-portraiture and display it in her own little gallery to see what attention they can draw.

    Replies: @Che Guava

  26. @songbird
    I remember seeing a TV show which explored evolutionary sex differences.

    Seemed to indicate that males are better at drawing. At least, they are able to draw things more accurately from memory, like for example, a bicycle drawn by a male will tend to have more parts than one drawn by a female.

    I can also remember back to elementary school, and I don't think anyone noticed it as a general rule, but the people who were acknowledged the best drawers (also by the girls) were male.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Kaiser Soze

    I saw that same show. It was a long time ago, probably at least 25 years, but the first thing I thought of when I saw this post was that bicycle drawing test.

    One of the show’s other observations was that men are much more likely to organize into rules-based groups and pursue goals to extremities, even for absurd ends. To illustrate this, they showcased a group of Buddhist monks who had painted themselves silver and ran up into the mountains carrying a log, or something like that. The narrator said that no group of women would behave like that. They would deliberate about the idea first, and then almost certainly would have rejected it.

    This is somewhat contradicted by the general opinion of mankind that women tend be both more sociable and more conformist, while men are much more deliberative. I think this demonstrates that there is a great deal of subjectivity involved when it comes to naming and classifying behavior. And let’s not even get started with the theoretical impossibilities of evolution.

    • Thanks: songbird
  27. It wouldn’t surprise me if on average females were better at drawing the human form (or any organic form) and males were better at mechanical drawing (or any inorganic form, e.g., airplanes!). Probably females look more at organic forms (other people, animals, plants) and males look more at inorganic forms (machines, tools, lumber, geometry).

    Of course, the extreme ends of the curve may look different with more male outliers due to a flatter curve.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Almost Missouri

    My mother in law worked as a draftswoman during WWII and apparently she was very good at it. If you look at handwriting, women generally have nicer handwriting then men and are neater in general.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Almost Missouri

  28. Thanks. On a bigger scale, Bayeux and other tapestries. As said earlier, though, it isn’t drawing. I like both of the examples you posted.

  29. @Jack D
    Modern Leftist ideology (which is the dominant ideology) is all about flipping the totem pole. Sure, straight white men have been on top for the last couple of thousand years at least, but that's only because they got there by repressing everyone else.

    The natural state of thing is that white men are BAD at everything (except maybe shooting up elementary schools and repressing other people, but we're not going to allow that from now on) and women, people of color and LGBTQ+ people are the best at everything. If you are some combination of the above, then even better!


    So it goes without saying that, even though the art museums are filled mostly with paintings by male artists, women are naturally better at drawing since women are naturally better at EVERYTHING, as long as you don't stop to think about it. The latter part is very important - no thinking allowed, just go with your automatic reaction based on your brainwashing.

    It's interesting BTW that women are not that good at drawing given their ability to do fine detail work. Back in the day, every young woman was supposed to produce a "sampler" which was an example of her needlework skills. In addition to stitching the alphabet, typically there were also pictures rendered in embroidery. In surviving examples, the quality of the pictures varies from awful to quite nice:

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/09/14/07/13/1d119a4d-e897-4ba5-af17-695079c53a96/2006BF5312-boxer-sampler-1280.jpg

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/16/11/08/14/d9053d10-63ab-4706-8676-86bbf4d3e3ea/2018LE4007-1950s-sampler.jpg

    I gather though that the pictures were quite often copied from other sources. If women lack the spatial orientation to do original drawing you would think that they would at least have the focus to do the fine detail work. To some extent that is true and for example the people who were employed to hand decorate china (a form of painting) were often female.

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence, @International Jew, @Art Deco, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous

    I think if you’re talking about those in the tail of the bell curve, whose work might be displayed in a museum which values craftsmanship, you might find the ratio if men to women is quite high. If you’re looking at a school art class composed of those with some basic competence, not so much.

    One thing I suspect is that college-level studio art instruction is in our time largely a fraud. See Emma Sulkowicz, who was given course credits by Columbia’s art faculty for lugging around a mattress for several weeks. I used to have a gander at the student work on display at my employer’s galleries and I recall flat nothing pleasing much less impressive. Every once in a while, someone from the art program would produce an oversize outdoor sculpture. The local frat brothers would give a frank and honest assessment of it by hauling it off under the cover of darkness and dumping it in the man made lake on campus.

    I should mention that I’ve a shirt-tail who took a studio degree at what I’m told is one of the most selective studio art programs in the country (ranked in the top ten). I’m told by others who attended her graduation with me that the student work on display which made extensive use of digital technology was episodically impressive. I just looked at the old school painting, drawing, and sculpture. Every once in a while you’d find something that looked like the producer had some actual skill to be developed. I’m talking about two or three people in a three-digit graduating class. (My shirt-tail makes rent working for department stores and vends her product online. It looks like paint-by-numbers work).

    Here’s an unsolicited suggestion for the budget-conscious board of trustees: shut down your studio art program and put its faculty out on the curb. And if you don’t have at least four art historians on campus who specialize in the study of work produced prior to 1920, get rid of your art history faculty as well.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Art Deco

    Which might explain why some of the most popular how-to-draw books on amazon are reprints from nearly 100 years ago — names like Watson, Guptill, Reyna, Kautzky...

    , @AnotherDad
    @Art Deco

    Emma Sulkowicz, LOL.

    If her face wasn't enough, her name should have given the dude a hint.

    It's the old adage: Don't stick your dick in crazy.


    Of course, no idea what happened between them in the bedroom. But with the social media record of her chasing after him, before months later discovering her "rape", her rape allegation was effectively debunked. But ... makes no difference. And an endless stream of Columbia "women" were happy to sign on to her oppression drama. And I'd guess she's still able to harvest some $$$ as a victim.

    ~~

    And, of course, the related question: What benefit is there at all to teaching young women to be sluts?

    Didn't do her any good. Didn't do the guy any good. Didn't aid education at the university. (Except maybe red-pilling a bunch of guys about the rationality of women.)

    Emma was probably a BPD bomb of trouble for some guy anyway. But not sure that was locked in. This modern "go be a slut"--and the "oh, if you are happy with your hookups, it's the guy's and the oppressive patriarchy's fault"--ideology does not make anyone's life better, and it certainly doesn't make the nation better.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Art Deco

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Art Deco


    One thing I suspect is that college-level studio art instruction is in our time largely a fraud
     
    Indeed. It is largely a failure of education and not art, however. Famously, in Japanese arts, you learn by first copying the teacher before branching out into your own work. For ecample, in traditional flower arrangement schools, the teacher makes an arrangement, shows it to you, then takes it apart and asks you to put it back together. This is the beginning stage of instruction which you master before moving on.

    Western art instruction used to be like this as well, although many people don't understand that. They think rendering things from nature is just "old-fashioned" and "non-expressive". In reality, learning to render is a process of copying like what's done in Japanese arts, except that the rendered object stands in the place of the teacher's own output.

    The process of copying at early stages of learning provides space for reflection and internalization necessary for learning.

    People at the far right of the bell curve can deal with any instructional style, which is why art schools still put out good students. However, art schools could produce a much larger number of competent artists (instead of the embarrassments we see today) if they returned to teaching traditionally in their intro courses.
  30. My guess, from going to art museums, would be that, in the usual pattern, at the extreme right edge of the distribution of drawing skills, out there with Raphael (there is, to the best of my knowledge, one Raphael in Southern California, at the Norton Simon museum in Pasadena, and it’s a stunner), there are more males than females.

    But, on average, I’d imagine the sexes are pretty similar. Girls would have better fine-motor skills and boys would tend to have more visual imagination, especially 3-d, so they’d come out pretty similar.

    Girls can be very good technical drawers and your average girl is probably more perceptive than your average boy in picking up things like shading (and translating that into color) and other details. (Did we theorize that women’s heightened perception of color would aid in gathering fruits and berries, while boys’ visual acuity is more tuned to discerning shapes among visual noise which is useful in, say, hunting a grey-brown deer in the lowly lit grey-brown forest covered in dead grey-brown leaves?)

    But the right tail of the bell curve probably rules here as in much else – the top world class artists (insofar as they are rendering something approximating nature) are probably all or mostly all male, while there are a surfeit of very good technical renderers who are female. Modern art would seem to increase parity, but most of it really seems like an inside joke where success is dependent upon a forceful (male) personality to sell the ruse of excellence to the art collecting community in a certain place so modern art is probably still dominated by males but for other reasons.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    your average girl is probably more perceptive than your average boy in picking up things like shading

    Fortunately for Napoleon Dynamite:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhv8Cfzv-04

    , @Red Pill Angel
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    You are right about women being good at detail and color. Women were employed by publishers in the 19th century to turn photos and drawings into engravings. The work was incredibly precise. I made As in technical drawing years ago, but the best men’s drawings often have more depth, even if my shading is quite accurate. The best of men’s drawings of the human figure seem better to me than the best of women’s, although that leaves a lot of room for overlap. Julie Bell is an exception but she is married to Boris Vallejo, a well known figurative fantasy painter. He taught her to paint in his style, plus she’s very shapely and often used herself as a model. A male artist once said to me that men simply spend more time looking at people’s bodies, period, both men’s and women’s bodies, and women don’t, and thus can call up physical imagery more easily. Frank Frazetta claimed he painted all his pictures without even needing a model! Women look more at people’s faces and as a result can become excellent portraitists.

    Replies: @Catdog

  31. @Almost Missouri
    It wouldn't surprise me if on average females were better at drawing the human form (or any organic form) and males were better at mechanical drawing (or any inorganic form, e.g., airplanes!). Probably females look more at organic forms (other people, animals, plants) and males look more at inorganic forms (machines, tools, lumber, geometry).

    Of course, the extreme ends of the curve may look different with more male outliers due to a flatter curve.

    Replies: @Jack D

    My mother in law worked as a draftswoman during WWII and apparently she was very good at it. If you look at handwriting, women generally have nicer handwriting then men and are neater in general.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Jack D


    My mother in law worked as a draftswoman during WWII and apparently she was very good at it. If you look at handwriting, women generally have nicer handwriting then men and are neater in general.
     
    In Catholic schools teaching penmanship according to the "Palmer Method" was standard. Girls were near uniformly superior at imitating the forms of letters and delivering a legible product in relatively short order save for the left-handers. The boys struggled mightily.
    , @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D


    women generally have nicer handwriting then men
     
    John Hancock ...

    ... secretly trans?
  32. @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian


    it is frequently over-emphasized how men are “mechanically” oriented. I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.
     
    It's not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let's say (I'm making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can't, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don't even have spare tire - you look in the trunk and there's a can of fix-a-flat.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @james wilson, @The Alarmist

    It’s not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let’s say (I’m making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can’t, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don’t even have spare tire – you look in the trunk and there’s a can of fix-a-flat.

    Given the elementary mechanical nature of changing a tire, I have to imagine that most people of either sex who would say that they “can’t” really just lack the confidence to try. Orienting and working the bottle jack might be the most challenging element, but once you’ve seen it done how can you not understand how it works? My mother claims not to be able to pump her own gas, so her life’s plan for getting gas is to send my stepfather out for it, patronize full-service stations, or fill up in New Jersey (for those who don’t know there is no self-service gas in New Jersey). She grew up driving before self-service was common, and was married young and had two sons who wound up being mobile gas station attendants for a good while. But I doubt that if she was in a situation in which those options were limited and she absolutely had to pump her own gas that she couldn’t figure it out in one go.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    You are right that confidence has a lot to do with it, but then again some people are right to lack confidence - yes if you know how to do all the steps correctly and in the correct order it's relatively easy (although not always - lug nuts can be overtorqued with the impact wrench, some modern lug luts are poorly constructed, etc. even if you know what you are doing) . However if you mess it up you can hurt your car and/or yourself so some people are right to be hesitant.

    In general there are a lot of things that might appear easy to you but are not so easy to other people. Tiger Woods probably thinks that a 300 yard drive is easy but to most people it ain't.

  33. @Jack D
    @Almost Missouri

    My mother in law worked as a draftswoman during WWII and apparently she was very good at it. If you look at handwriting, women generally have nicer handwriting then men and are neater in general.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Almost Missouri

    My mother in law worked as a draftswoman during WWII and apparently she was very good at it. If you look at handwriting, women generally have nicer handwriting then men and are neater in general.

    In Catholic schools teaching penmanship according to the “Palmer Method” was standard. Girls were near uniformly superior at imitating the forms of letters and delivering a legible product in relatively short order save for the left-handers. The boys struggled mightily.

    • Agree: Bill Jones
  34. Leaning towards men.

    However, women have much better penmanship as a rule.

  35. @International Jew
    @Jack D

    You don't need fine motor coordination to draw well. In fact many art teachers encourage you to draw big, swinging from the elbow and even the shoulder.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bill P, @Chrisnonymous

    But you would then expect women to do well in some specialties such as the painting of miniature portraits where you definitely have to use fine motor skills.

    Also, even if you render the general outlines of a painting in broad strokes, there is a lot of fine detail work. If you look at a high res scan of the Mona Lisa you will see that not only has Leonardo rendered the embroidery of her dress but that he has actually rendered each stitch with light and shadow and when the threads cross in a loop you can see which thread is on top and which one is underneath – in other words there is an insane amount of detail that can only be done with extremely fine brushwork.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Jack D

    You don't get to paint the stitches on Mona Lisa's dress unless first you painted the larger details (or the guy that did that hires you).

  36. Among casual artists women are better. 80% of the local overpriced southern maritime art (not sure what else to call the colorful stylized sailboats, shrimp, pelicans, etc that have been popular here for decades) sold in my area is made by middle-aged female artists. All of the murals on the sides of coffee shops are painted by younger female artists. But on the extreme upper end, based on prices rich people are willing to pay for certain works and the art featured in museums/art shows, it seems men may be better.

    In elementary/middle school I remember at least 15-20% of girls in my grade being decent artists, but only 2 boys. But those 2 boys that could draw were extremely gifted.

  37. @International Jew
    @Jack D

    You don't need fine motor coordination to draw well. In fact many art teachers encourage you to draw big, swinging from the elbow and even the shoulder.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bill P, @Chrisnonymous

    I could draw quite well when I was in grade school despite hardly being able to write legibly due to having essential tremor, which takes a toll on fine motor tasks but leaves large motor skills unscathed.

  38. …with leftists being notably anti-male.

    For a half-century or so after getting the franchise, women tend vote more conservatively than do men. It would seem anti-male leftists are working against their interest.

    Unless, of course, leftists had a pro-male bias “back in the day”. Communism is nothing if not macho. Thomas Sowell pointed out that South African communists took the white man’s side ’round about 1930. (Not that their stance, then or now, was ever based on principle.)

  39. @Emil Nikola Richard
    You didn't see the revisionist tale where Leonardo da Vinci was really a girl but she disguised herself to get into the right art school?

    Replies: @Alvin

    The art schools are like 85-15 in favor of women, with at least half the 15% males gay. Same with fashion school.

  40. Female artists are adept at “cute” but male artists are funnier — has there ever been a top female political cartoonist? I can’t think of any female political cartoonists, and I’ve been reading op-ed pages for more than 50 years

  41. Women are more fun to draw, so of course men would get more practice in the art. Why do we assume the great classical painters of male nudes were homos?

    Irving Stone (The Agony and the Ecstasy) claimed there was little or no evidence for Michelangelo being thus. Despite what modern pederasts claim.

  42. @songbird
    I remember seeing a TV show which explored evolutionary sex differences.

    Seemed to indicate that males are better at drawing. At least, they are able to draw things more accurately from memory, like for example, a bicycle drawn by a male will tend to have more parts than one drawn by a female.

    I can also remember back to elementary school, and I don't think anyone noticed it as a general rule, but the people who were acknowledged the best drawers (also by the girls) were male.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Kaiser Soze

    The Human Sexes by Desmond Morris

    • Thanks: songbird
  43. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    I think if you're talking about those in the tail of the bell curve, whose work might be displayed in a museum which values craftsmanship, you might find the ratio if men to women is quite high. If you're looking at a school art class composed of those with some basic competence, not so much.

    One thing I suspect is that college-level studio art instruction is in our time largely a fraud. See Emma Sulkowicz, who was given course credits by Columbia's art faculty for lugging around a mattress for several weeks. I used to have a gander at the student work on display at my employer's galleries and I recall flat nothing pleasing much less impressive. Every once in a while, someone from the art program would produce an oversize outdoor sculpture. The local frat brothers would give a frank and honest assessment of it by hauling it off under the cover of darkness and dumping it in the man made lake on campus.

    I should mention that I've a shirt-tail who took a studio degree at what I'm told is one of the most selective studio art programs in the country (ranked in the top ten). I'm told by others who attended her graduation with me that the student work on display which made extensive use of digital technology was episodically impressive. I just looked at the old school painting, drawing, and sculpture. Every once in a while you'd find something that looked like the producer had some actual skill to be developed. I'm talking about two or three people in a three-digit graduating class. (My shirt-tail makes rent working for department stores and vends her product online. It looks like paint-by-numbers work).

    Here's an unsolicited suggestion for the budget-conscious board of trustees: shut down your studio art program and put its faculty out on the curb. And if you don't have at least four art historians on campus who specialize in the study of work produced prior to 1920, get rid of your art history faculty as well.

    Replies: @International Jew, @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous

    Which might explain why some of the most popular how-to-draw books on amazon are reprints from nearly 100 years ago — names like Watson, Guptill, Reyna, Kautzky…

  44. @Jack D
    @International Jew

    But you would then expect women to do well in some specialties such as the painting of miniature portraits where you definitely have to use fine motor skills.

    Also, even if you render the general outlines of a painting in broad strokes, there is a lot of fine detail work. If you look at a high res scan of the Mona Lisa you will see that not only has Leonardo rendered the embroidery of her dress but that he has actually rendered each stitch with light and shadow and when the threads cross in a loop you can see which thread is on top and which one is underneath - in other words there is an insane amount of detail that can only be done with extremely fine brushwork.

    Replies: @International Jew

    You don’t get to paint the stitches on Mona Lisa’s dress unless first you painted the larger details (or the guy that did that hires you).

  45. @Jack D
    Modern Leftist ideology (which is the dominant ideology) is all about flipping the totem pole. Sure, straight white men have been on top for the last couple of thousand years at least, but that's only because they got there by repressing everyone else.

    The natural state of thing is that white men are BAD at everything (except maybe shooting up elementary schools and repressing other people, but we're not going to allow that from now on) and women, people of color and LGBTQ+ people are the best at everything. If you are some combination of the above, then even better!


    So it goes without saying that, even though the art museums are filled mostly with paintings by male artists, women are naturally better at drawing since women are naturally better at EVERYTHING, as long as you don't stop to think about it. The latter part is very important - no thinking allowed, just go with your automatic reaction based on your brainwashing.

    It's interesting BTW that women are not that good at drawing given their ability to do fine detail work. Back in the day, every young woman was supposed to produce a "sampler" which was an example of her needlework skills. In addition to stitching the alphabet, typically there were also pictures rendered in embroidery. In surviving examples, the quality of the pictures varies from awful to quite nice:

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/09/14/07/13/1d119a4d-e897-4ba5-af17-695079c53a96/2006BF5312-boxer-sampler-1280.jpg

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/16/11/08/14/d9053d10-63ab-4706-8676-86bbf4d3e3ea/2018LE4007-1950s-sampler.jpg

    I gather though that the pictures were quite often copied from other sources. If women lack the spatial orientation to do original drawing you would think that they would at least have the focus to do the fine detail work. To some extent that is true and for example the people who were employed to hand decorate china (a form of painting) were often female.

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence, @International Jew, @Art Deco, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous

    Hey, no fair to Aesop in that second picture: that fox can easily reach those grapes.

  46. Are Men or Women Better at Drawing?

    Hmmm. It seems the study participants believe women are more sketchy.

  47. @Art Deco
    If my experience in school is representative, men are the majority of those who draw well, but the ratio of men to women is not exceptionally high. Women predominate in decorative crafts, men in practical crafts.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “Women predominate in decorative crafts …”

    It’s the rare woman who doesn’t overstuff a room with bric-a-brac, knickknacks, and gewgaws. Men, of which I am quite the specimen, prefer spare, sparse, and ultimately empty space. The only adornments attached to my walls are my sketches of Buddy Ebsen in various modes of swimwear. Remember, Labor Day is nearing — Planet of the Apes Fanfest 2022 at the Hilton Garden Inn in Burbank. Here’s an idea: the post office where Steve keeps his b.o. box is quite near the hotel. I thought we could take a drive over there, park, and wait and see if he shows up.

    • LOL: HammerJack
    • Replies: @additionalMike
    @SunBakedSuburb

    "Buddy Ebsen in various modes of swimwear."

    I'll match and raise with my collection of Walter Brennan nude muscle pictures.

    , @ForeverCARealist
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Men prefer sparse, empty space? Not after age 30 or so. Then they collect junk and stack it to the ceiling. vacuuming? dusting? Haha.

    Yes, we recently cleaned out a house from a deceased male friend.

    Replies: @Indiana Jack

  48. Given roughly equivalent stand-up paddleboards and paddles women seem to be faster than men.

    I think there are a couple factors that explain this.

  49. Solving Partial Differential Equations.

    How many of you solve PDEs in your head?

    I’m a blank slate on this topic, so write on.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Goatweed

    Back when I was a first-year engineering student, I used to solve partial differential equations in my head. I could also graph cubic curves in my head. Finally, after having received no musical education in my youth, I taught myself how to have perfect pitch at the age of 18, which many experts say is impossible. I did all this just to prove something to myself. Regrettably, I realized only after the fact that these Vaudeville feats are damaging to one's brain and are not the proper use of one's faculties.

    , @Anon
    @Goatweed

    I can sketch out solutions to the biharmonic equation pretty well but that’s incidental to thirty years’ experience in stress analysis.

  50. @Bardon Kaldian
    In my experience- there is no difference between sexes in drawing. Just, it seems that high artistic painting is an ultra-male profession (there are, percentage-wise, more prominent female chemists & physicists than female painters).

    Women also don't excel in "serious" music (except as performers).

    But- they do in imaginative literature, from genre fiction to canonical high literature (Compton-Burnett, Yourcenar, Akhmatova,..).

    As far as differences go- it is frequently over-emphasized how men are "mechanically" oriented. I'm certain that Kant or Heidegger didn't have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.

    Replies: @Jack D, @John Pepple

    I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills.

    I’d go with Kant over Heidegger regarding mechanical skills. Heidegger was just a philosopher, whereas Kant was more than that. For example, he proposed a theory for the formation of the planets, so he has a place in the history of astronomy and not just the history of philosophy.

  51. i would think that they’re not even close once you get to the ability level required for professional artists.

    women are closer to men in music ability though. no, not as good, but there are hundreds of women over the decades who could write platinum selling material.

  52. I think the notion that the typical male-female bell curve applies to drawing is correct. Of all the famous artists I can name offhand, all of them are male.

    In regards to favorability of sex differences: it’s fair to imagine favoring females in social settings (bars, movie theaters, parks) is more common than favoring males. That is, until a shooter shows up and people need to be told what to do. Female favoritism only works so long as society is working. When it breaks down, feminism is forgotten faster than decorum

  53. What do you think?

    I think they should not have said, “more creative”.

    If there was a result, then the I expected the result to be “men”–based on far superior visuo-spatial skills. But women are distinctly better a fine motor skills so if the answer is women that works too. But when you throw “more creative” in with “more accurate” and “more pleasant to look at” my b.s. detector goes off.

  54. @Meretricious
    While I have no idea which sex is better worldwide [an impossible task], I can definitely aver that male artists are far better draughtsmen at the far right of the bell curve. Eg, there are no women in the same league as Auguste Rodin, Henry Moore, da Vinci, Rubens, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, William Kentridge, Durer, and Degas

    Replies: @Che Guava, @james wilson, @HammerJack

    Yes of course. Women, like the vast majority of us, don’t live on the lip of the bell. But for everyone else it is as Goethe observed–the nature of women is art. They are also far more prone than men to dancing, and also singing (in tune) popular songs complete with lyrics. I’ve even noticed this with professional musicians. Women notice everything, even things not worth noticing, and especially things you would prefer they not notice. They also identify more colors. Because they are always noticing It’s all part of their original design, Nesting, not so much in vogue any longer around the West.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  55. @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Richter

    My impression is that golf is a sort of white collar hunting game: you wander around a landscape armed with weapons, but it's not a blood sport. It emerged first as an obsession among increasingly bourgeois lowland Scots who eventually led to the Scottish Enlightenment.

    Hence it's not surprising that males are better at golf skills than women.

    Replies: @james wilson

    Billiards requires no physical demands. Yet the very best professional female billards players keep to their own tournements, and golf is a sport that demands much more of their diminished physical strength.

  56. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    I think if you're talking about those in the tail of the bell curve, whose work might be displayed in a museum which values craftsmanship, you might find the ratio if men to women is quite high. If you're looking at a school art class composed of those with some basic competence, not so much.

    One thing I suspect is that college-level studio art instruction is in our time largely a fraud. See Emma Sulkowicz, who was given course credits by Columbia's art faculty for lugging around a mattress for several weeks. I used to have a gander at the student work on display at my employer's galleries and I recall flat nothing pleasing much less impressive. Every once in a while, someone from the art program would produce an oversize outdoor sculpture. The local frat brothers would give a frank and honest assessment of it by hauling it off under the cover of darkness and dumping it in the man made lake on campus.

    I should mention that I've a shirt-tail who took a studio degree at what I'm told is one of the most selective studio art programs in the country (ranked in the top ten). I'm told by others who attended her graduation with me that the student work on display which made extensive use of digital technology was episodically impressive. I just looked at the old school painting, drawing, and sculpture. Every once in a while you'd find something that looked like the producer had some actual skill to be developed. I'm talking about two or three people in a three-digit graduating class. (My shirt-tail makes rent working for department stores and vends her product online. It looks like paint-by-numbers work).

    Here's an unsolicited suggestion for the budget-conscious board of trustees: shut down your studio art program and put its faculty out on the curb. And if you don't have at least four art historians on campus who specialize in the study of work produced prior to 1920, get rid of your art history faculty as well.

    Replies: @International Jew, @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous

    Emma Sulkowicz, LOL.

    If her face wasn’t enough, her name should have given the dude a hint.

    It’s the old adage: Don’t stick your dick in crazy.

    Of course, no idea what happened between them in the bedroom. But with the social media record of her chasing after him, before months later discovering her “rape”, her rape allegation was effectively debunked. But … makes no difference. And an endless stream of Columbia “women” were happy to sign on to her oppression drama. And I’d guess she’s still able to harvest some \$\$\$ as a victim.

    ~~

    And, of course, the related question: What benefit is there at all to teaching young women to be sluts?

    Didn’t do her any good. Didn’t do the guy any good. Didn’t aid education at the university. (Except maybe red-pilling a bunch of guys about the rationality of women.)

    Emma was probably a BPD bomb of trouble for some guy anyway. But not sure that was locked in. This modern “go be a slut”–and the “oh, if you are happy with your hookups, it’s the guy’s and the oppressive patriarchy’s fault”–ideology does not make anyone’s life better, and it certainly doesn’t make the nation better.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    I'm not sure the old system was really better. In the old days (at least since divorce became common) she would have married some guy and then driven him nuts in the divorce settlement and probably for years before that. At least her victim didn't have to give her half of his assets plus child support.

    Hopefully he will go on to find a less crazy woman to marry and Emma is going to be a cat lady once she hits the Wall. An alimony-less cat lady.

    Does the modern, contradictory "you should have a lot of sex because you are sex positive or maybe you should not have sex with men at all because they are the enemy" system drive some women nuts? Sure but these women would have probably gone nuts anyway.

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence, @AnotherDad

    , @Art Deco
    @AnotherDad

    Her father is a prominent clinical psychologist in Manhattan. SMDH.

  57. @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian


    it is frequently over-emphasized how men are “mechanically” oriented. I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.
     
    It's not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let's say (I'm making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can't, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don't even have spare tire - you look in the trunk and there's a can of fix-a-flat.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @james wilson, @The Alarmist

    One cynic wrote millennials are one flat tire out of cell phone coverage away from the next Donner party.

  58. @The Alarmist
    I guess that explains nearly all those Dutch Masters, Impressionists, etc. and why most modern comics were/are drawn by CIS-Males.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Dutch & French male privilege.

  59. @International Jew
    @Jack D

    Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never needed to change a flat tire. But like a lot of guys my age from the snowier parts of the country, I used to swap summer tires for snow tires and back every October and April.

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    It also depends where you are when the tire goes.
    Two years ago I had a blowout on the freeway at 75 mph in the center lane and just barely wrestled it to the right shoulder.

    Front left tire shredded.

    I was not changing anything with my back to the road on the side of the freeway with everyone zipping along at 75 minimum.

    I called a tow truck and let that guy take me to a nearby tire shop.
    He told me he’d been doing it 20 years and no one ever slows down.

    Never change a tire on the side of the freeway.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Paul Jolliffe

    Tow truck drivers will inconvenience however many passing motorists they have to block to do their job and do it safely. That's a good reason to call a tow truck instead of changing a tire yourself in a dangerous situation -- you are likely to try to balance off passing motorists' convenience and your own safety. Tow truck drivers, in contrast, don't play that game. They do what they got to do and do it safely and if it brings a whole freeway full of cars to a halt, so be it.

    Replies: @JimB, @J1234

    , @Ian M.
    @Paul Jolliffe

    I remember John Derbyshire writing that he once changed a tire on the side of FDR Drive, which I imagine might have been rather harrowing.

  60. @Cosmohicks
    "What I remember from 8th grade, which was the last time I had to take an art class, is that the boys who liked drawing really, really liked drawing and did it obsessively. This was way less the case among the girls."

    I remember this. One kid could draw like perfect Looney Toons style cartoons and was obsessed with it, cuz he was good.

    One area we have pretty objective data now is chess talent, women cannot crack world top 100 (although they have). Of course when they do it's awesome and they receive nothing but encouragement, but women probably can't recreate that eighth grade obsessive chess phase the top male players had, which serves as a base for when they go next level. Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers.

    Replies: @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers.

    I doubt this because women are proven to be capable of doing writing and comedy at a high level – unlike say chess, there are known top 100 female writers and comedians and these existed long before the woke AA era.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    It's a matter of proportion and scale. It's a certain fact that Elaine May exists; but for every Elaine May, there are thirty Woody Allens.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    I doubt this because women are proven to be capable of doing writing and comedy at a high level – unlike say chess, there are known top 100 female writers and comedians and these existed long before the woke AA era.
     
    There are at least three golden-age Broadway female lyricists-- Dorothy Fields, Carolyn Leigh, and Betty Comden. (Okay, two-and-a-half, taking into consideration Adolph Green.) There is no composer counterpart. That seems about right.

    Note that women aren't bad* at either of these pursuits, and on average have a verbal advantage over men. It's just that the right tail of the curve doesn't care about your feelings.


    *Actually, the inability to be really bad is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Sidewalk Meanderings

  61. @AnotherDad
    @Art Deco

    Emma Sulkowicz, LOL.

    If her face wasn't enough, her name should have given the dude a hint.

    It's the old adage: Don't stick your dick in crazy.


    Of course, no idea what happened between them in the bedroom. But with the social media record of her chasing after him, before months later discovering her "rape", her rape allegation was effectively debunked. But ... makes no difference. And an endless stream of Columbia "women" were happy to sign on to her oppression drama. And I'd guess she's still able to harvest some $$$ as a victim.

    ~~

    And, of course, the related question: What benefit is there at all to teaching young women to be sluts?

    Didn't do her any good. Didn't do the guy any good. Didn't aid education at the university. (Except maybe red-pilling a bunch of guys about the rationality of women.)

    Emma was probably a BPD bomb of trouble for some guy anyway. But not sure that was locked in. This modern "go be a slut"--and the "oh, if you are happy with your hookups, it's the guy's and the oppressive patriarchy's fault"--ideology does not make anyone's life better, and it certainly doesn't make the nation better.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Art Deco

    I’m not sure the old system was really better. In the old days (at least since divorce became common) she would have married some guy and then driven him nuts in the divorce settlement and probably for years before that. At least her victim didn’t have to give her half of his assets plus child support.

    Hopefully he will go on to find a less crazy woman to marry and Emma is going to be a cat lady once she hits the Wall. An alimony-less cat lady.

    Does the modern, contradictory “you should have a lot of sex because you are sex positive or maybe you should not have sex with men at all because they are the enemy” system drive some women nuts? Sure but these women would have probably gone nuts anyway.

    • Replies: @Unintended Consequence
    @Jack D

    What about nutso guys? Or are you suggesting they don't exist unless a rare serial killer or Unabomber type?

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    I’m not sure the old system was really better. In the old days (at least since divorce became common) she would have married some guy and then driven him nuts in the divorce settlement and probably for years before that. At least her victim didn’t have to give her half of his assets plus child support.
     
    No system is ideal. Getting two people together--and staying happily together--in order to raise some kids is always going to be a bit of a roll of the dice.

    But I think it works out better if
    -- there is lots of societal support for marriage, for staying together
    -- both parties, but especially the woman have not had a sex with a bunch of other people; sex ideally is their special love world, shared with no one else and ergo a powerful bonding agent
    -- they have a decent amount of time together before having sex
    -- they have a lot of sex together while they are in their "sexual prime"

    The current system seems to leave a lot of people either alienated or jaded. I could have had some sympathy for Emma before the rape allegation. She seemed to have expected something was going to develop, but the guy was a just playing the field, maybe even a cad. But then she wasn't exactly a virgin either, she seemed to be playing the field. So what does she expect? This all just seems to leave a lot of young women confused and hurt. And, of course, it leaves a huge bunch of young men who are not particularly socially facile pissed off. And then these two groups are supposed to get together and hatch the next generation?

    Millenials are--apparently--having less sex than we did, while being more alienated from each other, marrying less and later and having fewer kids. Winning?

    Replies: @Jack D

  62. @Goatweed
    Solving Partial Differential Equations.

    How many of you solve PDEs in your head?

    I’m a blank slate on this topic, so write on.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Anon

    Back when I was a first-year engineering student, I used to solve partial differential equations in my head. I could also graph cubic curves in my head. Finally, after having received no musical education in my youth, I taught myself how to have perfect pitch at the age of 18, which many experts say is impossible. I did all this just to prove something to myself. Regrettably, I realized only after the fact that these Vaudeville feats are damaging to one’s brain and are not the proper use of one’s faculties.

  63. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Jack D


    It’s not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let’s say (I’m making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can’t, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don’t even have spare tire – you look in the trunk and there’s a can of fix-a-flat.
     
    Given the elementary mechanical nature of changing a tire, I have to imagine that most people of either sex who would say that they "can't" really just lack the confidence to try. Orienting and working the bottle jack might be the most challenging element, but once you've seen it done how can you not understand how it works? My mother claims not to be able to pump her own gas, so her life's plan for getting gas is to send my stepfather out for it, patronize full-service stations, or fill up in New Jersey (for those who don't know there is no self-service gas in New Jersey). She grew up driving before self-service was common, and was married young and had two sons who wound up being mobile gas station attendants for a good while. But I doubt that if she was in a situation in which those options were limited and she absolutely had to pump her own gas that she couldn't figure it out in one go.

    Replies: @Jack D

    You are right that confidence has a lot to do with it, but then again some people are right to lack confidence – yes if you know how to do all the steps correctly and in the correct order it’s relatively easy (although not always – lug nuts can be overtorqued with the impact wrench, some modern lug luts are poorly constructed, etc. even if you know what you are doing) . However if you mess it up you can hurt your car and/or yourself so some people are right to be hesitant.

    In general there are a lot of things that might appear easy to you but are not so easy to other people. Tiger Woods probably thinks that a 300 yard drive is easy but to most people it ain’t.

  64. Anon[358] • Disclaimer says:

    As someone who has worked with women for 4 decades on both mechanical drafting as well as (fine art) painting – I can state with full conviction that men have far superior spatial ability. It’s not even close.

    Sooooo that means in painting men draw better perspectives and more realistic figures.

  65. @Jack D
    @Cosmohicks


    Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers.
     
    I doubt this because women are proven to be capable of doing writing and comedy at a high level - unlike say chess, there are known top 100 female writers and comedians and these existed long before the woke AA era.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Reg Cæsar

    It’s a matter of proportion and scale. It’s a certain fact that Elaine May exists; but for every Elaine May, there are thirty Woody Allens.

  66. @AnotherDad
    @Art Deco

    Emma Sulkowicz, LOL.

    If her face wasn't enough, her name should have given the dude a hint.

    It's the old adage: Don't stick your dick in crazy.


    Of course, no idea what happened between them in the bedroom. But with the social media record of her chasing after him, before months later discovering her "rape", her rape allegation was effectively debunked. But ... makes no difference. And an endless stream of Columbia "women" were happy to sign on to her oppression drama. And I'd guess she's still able to harvest some $$$ as a victim.

    ~~

    And, of course, the related question: What benefit is there at all to teaching young women to be sluts?

    Didn't do her any good. Didn't do the guy any good. Didn't aid education at the university. (Except maybe red-pilling a bunch of guys about the rationality of women.)

    Emma was probably a BPD bomb of trouble for some guy anyway. But not sure that was locked in. This modern "go be a slut"--and the "oh, if you are happy with your hookups, it's the guy's and the oppressive patriarchy's fault"--ideology does not make anyone's life better, and it certainly doesn't make the nation better.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Art Deco

    Her father is a prominent clinical psychologist in Manhattan. SMDH.

  67. @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian


    it is frequently over-emphasized how men are “mechanically” oriented. I’m certain that Kant or Heidegger didn’t have any mechanical skills. I doubt that Kafka could change a tire.
     
    It's not overemphasized because there is still an enormous gap in ratios between the sexes. Let's say (I'm making up this number) half of all men are mechanically oriented enough to change a tire and half are not. Among women, this would be closer to 10% who can change a tire and 90% who can't, so the non-mechanical group is still much more female than male.

    BTW, I think that tire changing is becoming an increasingly lost skill among both sexes. A lot of new cars don't even have spare tire - you look in the trunk and there's a can of fix-a-flat.

    Replies: @International Jew, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @james wilson, @The Alarmist

    Apropos changing tyres, a moment of Zen from the Bee:

    Demi Lovato Identifies As ‘She/Her’ Again After Discovering Her Car’s Flat Tire

    source: https://babylonbee.com/news/demi-lovato-identifies-as-sheher-after-discovering-her-cars-flat-tire/

  68. @International Jew
    @Jack D

    You don't need fine motor coordination to draw well. In fact many art teachers encourage you to draw big, swinging from the elbow and even the shoulder.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bill P, @Chrisnonymous

    You guys are both wrong. The basic skills of drawing are visual and conceptual.

    The fundamental drawing skill is learning to see, and the quintessential example is eyes on a portrait. Untrained people often try to draw eyes in top 1/3 of a face because this is where they believe eyes to be. Learning to draw involves breaking this connection between what’s actually seen in the 2D visual field and what we believe the world to be like. It is almost the opposite of the skill engineers and architects need to mentally visualize 3D space.

    What you and JackD are disagreeing about are two unrelated points. JackD thinks art is like surgery, where a steady hand is needed. But the analogy is bad because of things like erasers and artists’ ability to choose–Leonardo didn’t have paint all the embroidery stitches on the Mona Lisa, and this is not what makes the painting great. On the other hand, drawing “from the elbow” is about creating line quality. Many students try to create lines by building up many small strokes by picking at the paper, and this creates un-beautiful lines. However, drawing from the elbow is not a solution. “Small” drawing occurs when students don’t really know what they’re doing–it is a knowledge and confidence problem, solved by learning to see and then learning which marks are necessary to represent something beautifully.

  69. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    I think if you're talking about those in the tail of the bell curve, whose work might be displayed in a museum which values craftsmanship, you might find the ratio if men to women is quite high. If you're looking at a school art class composed of those with some basic competence, not so much.

    One thing I suspect is that college-level studio art instruction is in our time largely a fraud. See Emma Sulkowicz, who was given course credits by Columbia's art faculty for lugging around a mattress for several weeks. I used to have a gander at the student work on display at my employer's galleries and I recall flat nothing pleasing much less impressive. Every once in a while, someone from the art program would produce an oversize outdoor sculpture. The local frat brothers would give a frank and honest assessment of it by hauling it off under the cover of darkness and dumping it in the man made lake on campus.

    I should mention that I've a shirt-tail who took a studio degree at what I'm told is one of the most selective studio art programs in the country (ranked in the top ten). I'm told by others who attended her graduation with me that the student work on display which made extensive use of digital technology was episodically impressive. I just looked at the old school painting, drawing, and sculpture. Every once in a while you'd find something that looked like the producer had some actual skill to be developed. I'm talking about two or three people in a three-digit graduating class. (My shirt-tail makes rent working for department stores and vends her product online. It looks like paint-by-numbers work).

    Here's an unsolicited suggestion for the budget-conscious board of trustees: shut down your studio art program and put its faculty out on the curb. And if you don't have at least four art historians on campus who specialize in the study of work produced prior to 1920, get rid of your art history faculty as well.

    Replies: @International Jew, @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous

    One thing I suspect is that college-level studio art instruction is in our time largely a fraud

    Indeed. It is largely a failure of education and not art, however. Famously, in Japanese arts, you learn by first copying the teacher before branching out into your own work. For ecample, in traditional flower arrangement schools, the teacher makes an arrangement, shows it to you, then takes it apart and asks you to put it back together. This is the beginning stage of instruction which you master before moving on.

    Western art instruction used to be like this as well, although many people don’t understand that. They think rendering things from nature is just “old-fashioned” and “non-expressive”. In reality, learning to render is a process of copying like what’s done in Japanese arts, except that the rendered object stands in the place of the teacher’s own output.

    The process of copying at early stages of learning provides space for reflection and internalization necessary for learning.

    People at the far right of the bell curve can deal with any instructional style, which is why art schools still put out good students. However, art schools could produce a much larger number of competent artists (instead of the embarrassments we see today) if they returned to teaching traditionally in their intro courses.

    • Thanks: SOL
  70. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    I'm not sure the old system was really better. In the old days (at least since divorce became common) she would have married some guy and then driven him nuts in the divorce settlement and probably for years before that. At least her victim didn't have to give her half of his assets plus child support.

    Hopefully he will go on to find a less crazy woman to marry and Emma is going to be a cat lady once she hits the Wall. An alimony-less cat lady.

    Does the modern, contradictory "you should have a lot of sex because you are sex positive or maybe you should not have sex with men at all because they are the enemy" system drive some women nuts? Sure but these women would have probably gone nuts anyway.

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence, @AnotherDad

    What about nutso guys? Or are you suggesting they don’t exist unless a rare serial killer or Unabomber type?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Unintended Consequence


    What about nutso guys? Or are you suggesting they don’t exist unless a rare serial killer or Unabomber type?
     
    Nutso guys are a given.

    Men are really the "dice" for selection. Higher variance, more standouts positive and negative.

    But I will say, that nutso guys are generally easier to spot. They are nutso. Some guy is a loon, abusive, a criminal, he usually is not hiding it super well. It's who he is. And women are generally better at people reading. They can take a pass. (Some unfortunately are drawn to this dysfunction--criminal or other.)

    Men are generally less adept at picking out the BDP head cases from the merely flirty, girly girl. And probably even more the depressives--the one area of nuttiness where women far outpoint men.

    Replies: @Bill P, @Unintended Consequence

  71. @Goatweed
    Solving Partial Differential Equations.

    How many of you solve PDEs in your head?

    I’m a blank slate on this topic, so write on.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Anon

    I can sketch out solutions to the biharmonic equation pretty well but that’s incidental to thirty years’ experience in stress analysis.

  72. @Paul Jolliffe
    @International Jew

    It also depends where you are when the tire goes.
    Two years ago I had a blowout on the freeway at 75 mph in the center lane and just barely wrestled it to the right shoulder.

    Front left tire shredded.

    I was not changing anything with my back to the road on the side of the freeway with everyone zipping along at 75 minimum.

    I called a tow truck and let that guy take me to a nearby tire shop.
    He told me he’d been doing it 20 years and no one ever slows down.

    Never change a tire on the side of the freeway.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ian M.

    Tow truck drivers will inconvenience however many passing motorists they have to block to do their job and do it safely. That’s a good reason to call a tow truck instead of changing a tire yourself in a dangerous situation — you are likely to try to balance off passing motorists’ convenience and your own safety. Tow truck drivers, in contrast, don’t play that game. They do what they got to do and do it safely and if it brings a whole freeway full of cars to a halt, so be it.

    • Replies: @JimB
    @Steve Sailer

    Keep red phosphorous flares in your trunk and put them every 25 feet for 525 feet behind where your car has broken down on the road. 525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Buzz Mohawk, @kaganovitch

    , @J1234
    @Steve Sailer

    What a shocking sight I came upon 30 years while driving along a twisting local freeway, which had many blind spots created by relatively low radius curves and numerous concrete barriers. About 150 yards ahead in the fast lane was a big worn out luxury car that had been jacked up with one of those unstable old school bumper jacks. Again, this was in the fast lane in the stream of traffic (there was no shoulder at that point, on either side, as I recall.) The car's two black male occupants were changing a tire while traffic came around the bend at probably 55 or 60 mph, some cars swerving to avoid hitting them. Truly amazing that I didn't see a terrible accident that day.

  73. How can greatness in aesthetics be judged objectively? Is it is entirely cultural. I thought of James Joyce’s Ulysses or David Foster Wallace’s Infinite Jest. Is there an equivalent female author. I can’t of one offhand other than perhaps Virginia Woolf. In a random survey of popular tastes, how would any of their novels fair? Yet critics hailed them, and I think rightly for being innovative, challenging and thought provoking. If the criteria is for readability and style and avoids the intense amount of knowledge and effort to write, probably Woolf would win. But what is that actually saying?

  74. @Steve Sailer
    @Paul Jolliffe

    Tow truck drivers will inconvenience however many passing motorists they have to block to do their job and do it safely. That's a good reason to call a tow truck instead of changing a tire yourself in a dangerous situation -- you are likely to try to balance off passing motorists' convenience and your own safety. Tow truck drivers, in contrast, don't play that game. They do what they got to do and do it safely and if it brings a whole freeway full of cars to a halt, so be it.

    Replies: @JimB, @J1234

    Keep red phosphorous flares in your trunk and put them every 25 feet for 525 feet behind where your car has broken down on the road. 525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @JimB


    525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.
     
    A tractor trailer whose driver is paying attention.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @JimB

    Light a flare every 25 feet for 525 feet huh?

    I'd rather call a tow truck than carry 20 flares around in my car all the time, much less set them all up.

    Besides, my insurance pays for the tow truck service. Yours should too; if it doesn't, change it.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @kaganovitch
    @JimB

    Keep red phosphorous flares in your trunk and put them every 25 feet for 525 feet behind where your car has broken down. 525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.

    A six pack of flares is thirty bucks at Amazon, so this little trek will cost you $100 . I vote for the tow truck.

  75. In Japan, manga are categorized by their market. For example, for teenage boys or for teenage girls, and what is interesting is that not only do the themes differ, but also the drawing styles.

    I’m not knowledgeable enough about it to categorize the differing styles well, but I strongly suspect that they are related to evolutionary sex differences.

    Some differences are undoubtedly psychological in nature. The ones meant for teenage boys often have over-muscled figures displaying their strength, while the men that appear in manga meant for girls are often slender-looking. I think that the girls’ ones often have bigger eyes.

    But I suspect some other differences might even be related to actual differences in vision. Hunter vs. gatherer type stuff. I think the girls’ stuff might actually have more plants and flowers, while the boys’ is more focused on motion (accentuated by shading.)

  76. Anon[169] • Disclaimer says:

    If I were taking the sex-related drawing hypothesis for real, in researching it I think the first thing I would want to look at is is there a difference in interest in drawing between the sexes. A difference in interest may result in a difference in the desire to take drawing classes. And I know from personal experience that my drawing ability jumped hugely after taking a single drawing class. You’re taught ways of noticing things that you didn’t realize before. So I would want to know whether there’s a difference in drawing ability between the sexes who have not taken drawing classes, and whether the difference persists after a single drawings class.

  77. Drawing attention? Definitely women!😉

  78. Perhaps not touched on is the difference between drawing natural things vs. technical or geometric.

    Since we’re sharing, I’ll share that in school I tended toward the latter and excelled at it. This goes all the way back to kindergarten, when we were supposed to do finger painting and I drew a semi-truck with my finger.

    I’ve seen girls and women do fine natural drawings but no technical or geometric ones. I’m sure they’re out there, though, just not so many.

    On the wall in one room I have a framed pen and ink drawing my late sister did in high school. It is a very nice landscape of a fishing cabin on the water with clouds in the sky. On the opposite wall I have a framed, virtually perfect 1:4 scale drawing of a ten-speed bicycle I did for a math assignment in seventh grade, complete with every gear, mechanism and spoke. That is the difference.

  79. Anonymous[954] • Disclaimer says:

    Interesting mini-doc on Disney female artists. Disney struck me as a fellow who would bring you on board if you had the talent and tenacity, regardless of gender. His male stable of major dudes seemed to have all that going on, big time. His female artists seemed to fluctuate between those two qualities, making some of them more likely to drop out, or at least take extended breaks. Or even get fired.

  80. My elementary school had a free period every day when the pupils could
    draw anything they wanted to their heart’s content and the school provided
    the free papers and crayons. Ah, those glorious days when most of the
    school’s budget didn’t go to a surfeit of administrators and there was plenty
    left over for free books and school supplies! I noticed that while the boys (even—
    psst!—the “sissy” ones) preferred to draw outdoor scenes and especially battle
    scenes with a lot of shooting and war planes and battleships, the girls preferred
    to draw quiet domestic interior scenes with families and children and, of course,
    plenty of “fashion” pictures with a wide variety of dresses. I can’t remember even
    one girl in my class drawing any battle or fighting pictures.

  81. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Art Deco

    "Women predominate in decorative crafts ..."

    It's the rare woman who doesn't overstuff a room with bric-a-brac, knickknacks, and gewgaws. Men, of which I am quite the specimen, prefer spare, sparse, and ultimately empty space. The only adornments attached to my walls are my sketches of Buddy Ebsen in various modes of swimwear. Remember, Labor Day is nearing -- Planet of the Apes Fanfest 2022 at the Hilton Garden Inn in Burbank. Here's an idea: the post office where Steve keeps his b.o. box is quite near the hotel. I thought we could take a drive over there, park, and wait and see if he shows up.

    Replies: @additionalMike, @ForeverCARealist

    “Buddy Ebsen in various modes of swimwear.”

    I’ll match and raise with my collection of Walter Brennan nude muscle pictures.

    • LOL: Mark G.
  82. @Steve Sailer
    @Paul Jolliffe

    Tow truck drivers will inconvenience however many passing motorists they have to block to do their job and do it safely. That's a good reason to call a tow truck instead of changing a tire yourself in a dangerous situation -- you are likely to try to balance off passing motorists' convenience and your own safety. Tow truck drivers, in contrast, don't play that game. They do what they got to do and do it safely and if it brings a whole freeway full of cars to a halt, so be it.

    Replies: @JimB, @J1234

    What a shocking sight I came upon 30 years while driving along a twisting local freeway, which had many blind spots created by relatively low radius curves and numerous concrete barriers. About 150 yards ahead in the fast lane was a big worn out luxury car that had been jacked up with one of those unstable old school bumper jacks. Again, this was in the fast lane in the stream of traffic (there was no shoulder at that point, on either side, as I recall.) The car’s two black male occupants were changing a tire while traffic came around the bend at probably 55 or 60 mph, some cars swerving to avoid hitting them. Truly amazing that I didn’t see a terrible accident that day.

  83. Since Asian crime rates are lower than that of whites (as Mr. Twinkacetti demands be mentioned in every thread), there was a robbery that backfired in Las Vegas.

    Two wiggers try to rob an Asian-run shop. The Asian men took out a knife and stabbed one of them :

    https://news.yahoo.com/video-captures-las-vegas-vape-175856683.html

    The kid that got stabbed probably wasn’t even the mastermind. He just went along with his WN wigger friend.

    I bet this won’t make the crime lists here since the race combo is not the one sought.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Thomm

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1555610270256562176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1555610270256562176%7Ctwgr%5Ed03aa395322384c85c012ddce40d2cc4c31378fc%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fnews%2Fvegas-smoke-shop-owner-recounts-how-masked-robber-he-stabbed-begged-for-his-life

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1556774305236717568

  84. @JimB
    @Steve Sailer

    Keep red phosphorous flares in your trunk and put them every 25 feet for 525 feet behind where your car has broken down on the road. 525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Buzz Mohawk, @kaganovitch

    525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.

    A tractor trailer whose driver is paying attention.

  85. @Meretricious
    While I have no idea which sex is better worldwide [an impossible task], I can definitely aver that male artists are far better draughtsmen at the far right of the bell curve. Eg, there are no women in the same league as Auguste Rodin, Henry Moore, da Vinci, Rubens, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, William Kentridge, Durer, and Degas

    Replies: @Che Guava, @james wilson, @HammerJack

    Funny that you cite Michelangelo (who had a surname) by his first name and Leonardo (who didn’t) by his place of origin.

    Oh yeah. The next post is about autists.

  86. @JimB
    @Steve Sailer

    Keep red phosphorous flares in your trunk and put them every 25 feet for 525 feet behind where your car has broken down on the road. 525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Buzz Mohawk, @kaganovitch

    Light a flare every 25 feet for 525 feet huh?

    I’d rather call a tow truck than carry 20 flares around in my car all the time, much less set them all up.

    Besides, my insurance pays for the tow truck service. Yours should too; if it doesn’t, change it.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    On paper I have tow service coverage. However, the one time I used it (not for a flat tire but for a mechanical issue) they took hours to come. My insurance company had subcontracted with the low bidder to provide national towing coverage and they in turn were supposed to subcontract with local towing companies. Somehow the "local" provider for my area was 40 miles away in NJ and I had the impression that they had none to many trucks - maybe even just the one beat up old truck that showed up.

    I guess if you are dividing up the US on a grid, having a provider every 40 miles in Kansas makes sense but in the crowded Northeast it's ridiculous. In any case, it took hours for them to arrive so I guess you get what you pay for. If you are really interested in towing coverage you would probably be better off with AAA than with what your insurance company gives you as part of your policy.

    OTOH, I understand that in Philly the tow companies compete aggressively to get to the scene of an accident because whoever tows you has various scams going and they are eager to literally hook you onto their scam.

    Once the guy got there, the guy was impressively skillful in getting the car onto the flatbed and off again considering that it wouldn't start and he had to do all the moving on his end. But waiting 3 hours for a tow was no fun.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  87. @Jack D
    @Cosmohicks


    Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers.
     
    I doubt this because women are proven to be capable of doing writing and comedy at a high level - unlike say chess, there are known top 100 female writers and comedians and these existed long before the woke AA era.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Reg Cæsar

    I doubt this because women are proven to be capable of doing writing and comedy at a high level – unlike say chess, there are known top 100 female writers and comedians and these existed long before the woke AA era.

    There are at least three golden-age Broadway female lyricists– Dorothy Fields, Carolyn Leigh, and Betty Comden. (Okay, two-and-a-half, taking into consideration Adolph Green.) There is no composer counterpart. That seems about right.

    Note that women aren’t bad* at either of these pursuits, and on average have a verbal advantage over men. It’s just that the right tail of the curve doesn’t care about your feelings.

    *Actually, the inability to be really bad is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Reg Cæsar


    Actually, the inability to be really bad is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?
     
    I dunno, but I've unintentionally discovered that the ability to be really great is connected to the ability to be really bad.

    And that it takes 20 flares to cover 525 feet every 25 feet, assuming you walk out the first 25 feet.

    , @Sidewalk Meanderings
    @Reg Cæsar

    In Comment #87, Reg Caesar writes: "Actually, the inability to be really bad
    is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?"
    Lawrence Summers gave a speech on this apparent connection while he was
    president of Harvard University---and was forced to resign in the ensuing
    controversy. In his 2005 speech, he said the "generally greater variability
    among men (compared to women) in tests of cognitive abilities leading to
    proportionally more males than females at both the lower and upper tails
    of the test score distributions" (quote from Wikipedia) may be one reason
    for the under-representation of women in science and engineering. Naturally, the power-mad feminists in academia didn't like the implication that women aren't as smart as men at the very top levels of science and
    engineering, and stirred up such a huge stink that the wimpy Harvard faculty passed a vote of no confidence, forcing Summers to resign for daring to question the prevailing orthodoxy.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  88. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    I'm not sure the old system was really better. In the old days (at least since divorce became common) she would have married some guy and then driven him nuts in the divorce settlement and probably for years before that. At least her victim didn't have to give her half of his assets plus child support.

    Hopefully he will go on to find a less crazy woman to marry and Emma is going to be a cat lady once she hits the Wall. An alimony-less cat lady.

    Does the modern, contradictory "you should have a lot of sex because you are sex positive or maybe you should not have sex with men at all because they are the enemy" system drive some women nuts? Sure but these women would have probably gone nuts anyway.

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence, @AnotherDad

    I’m not sure the old system was really better. In the old days (at least since divorce became common) she would have married some guy and then driven him nuts in the divorce settlement and probably for years before that. At least her victim didn’t have to give her half of his assets plus child support.

    No system is ideal. Getting two people together–and staying happily together–in order to raise some kids is always going to be a bit of a roll of the dice.

    But I think it works out better if
    — there is lots of societal support for marriage, for staying together
    — both parties, but especially the woman have not had a sex with a bunch of other people; sex ideally is their special love world, shared with no one else and ergo a powerful bonding agent
    — they have a decent amount of time together before having sex
    — they have a lot of sex together while they are in their “sexual prime”

    The current system seems to leave a lot of people either alienated or jaded. I could have had some sympathy for Emma before the rape allegation. She seemed to have expected something was going to develop, but the guy was a just playing the field, maybe even a cad. But then she wasn’t exactly a virgin either, she seemed to be playing the field. So what does she expect? This all just seems to leave a lot of young women confused and hurt. And, of course, it leaves a huge bunch of young men who are not particularly socially facile pissed off. And then these two groups are supposed to get together and hatch the next generation?

    Millenials are–apparently–having less sex than we did, while being more alienated from each other, marrying less and later and having fewer kids. Winning?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @AnotherDad


    Emma before the rape allegation.
     
    There was no rape allegation, at least not one that any prosecutor would bring before a jury, even in Manhattan. The essence of her complaint was that she had given him permission to use the front hole and he used the other hole. While they teach " you can revoke consent at any time*" to the kids, the reality is that the feminists just made that up and that's not how the law actually operates in this area.

    The most bitter irony is that the elaborate verbal "consent at every step" procedure is a complete buzzkill for both parties so you might as well not have sex at all, which is maybe what the feminists actually want.



    * note that "at any time" includes retroactively.
  89. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    I doubt this because women are proven to be capable of doing writing and comedy at a high level – unlike say chess, there are known top 100 female writers and comedians and these existed long before the woke AA era.
     
    There are at least three golden-age Broadway female lyricists-- Dorothy Fields, Carolyn Leigh, and Betty Comden. (Okay, two-and-a-half, taking into consideration Adolph Green.) There is no composer counterpart. That seems about right.

    Note that women aren't bad* at either of these pursuits, and on average have a verbal advantage over men. It's just that the right tail of the curve doesn't care about your feelings.


    *Actually, the inability to be really bad is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Sidewalk Meanderings

    Actually, the inability to be really bad is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?

    I dunno, but I’ve unintentionally discovered that the ability to be really great is connected to the ability to be really bad.

    And that it takes 20 flares to cover 525 feet every 25 feet, assuming you walk out the first 25 feet.

  90. @Unintended Consequence
    @Jack D

    What about nutso guys? Or are you suggesting they don't exist unless a rare serial killer or Unabomber type?

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    What about nutso guys? Or are you suggesting they don’t exist unless a rare serial killer or Unabomber type?

    Nutso guys are a given.

    Men are really the “dice” for selection. Higher variance, more standouts positive and negative.

    But I will say, that nutso guys are generally easier to spot. They are nutso. Some guy is a loon, abusive, a criminal, he usually is not hiding it super well. It’s who he is. And women are generally better at people reading. They can take a pass. (Some unfortunately are drawn to this dysfunction–criminal or other.)

    Men are generally less adept at picking out the BDP head cases from the merely flirty, girly girl. And probably even more the depressives–the one area of nuttiness where women far outpoint men.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @AnotherDad

    Lots of people - male and female - grew up without fathers. Many of these people's mothers were nuts.

    I'm curious as to whether this did more harm to the boys or girls when it comes to evaluating mates. I'd guess the former, but it can't be good for the latter either.

    What's worse? Having a bad example or no example at all? Probably having a bad example, unfortunately.

    , @Unintended Consequence
    @AnotherDad

    You don't know the difference between a personality disorder and a mood disorder. Further, a woman's body has a lot going on during her reproductive years. Combine the greater potential for nutritional deficits with greater emotional volatility with anything going wrong for long enough and you get to depression fairly easily. A lot of the remedy has to do with taking care of one's physical health. It's simple enough.

    I get so tired of you ignorant, peremptory types spouting off about things you don't understand. Don't you think it's time for Sailer to post about golf course architecture or baseball stats again?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  91. @AnotherDad
    @Unintended Consequence


    What about nutso guys? Or are you suggesting they don’t exist unless a rare serial killer or Unabomber type?
     
    Nutso guys are a given.

    Men are really the "dice" for selection. Higher variance, more standouts positive and negative.

    But I will say, that nutso guys are generally easier to spot. They are nutso. Some guy is a loon, abusive, a criminal, he usually is not hiding it super well. It's who he is. And women are generally better at people reading. They can take a pass. (Some unfortunately are drawn to this dysfunction--criminal or other.)

    Men are generally less adept at picking out the BDP head cases from the merely flirty, girly girl. And probably even more the depressives--the one area of nuttiness where women far outpoint men.

    Replies: @Bill P, @Unintended Consequence

    Lots of people – male and female – grew up without fathers. Many of these people’s mothers were nuts.

    I’m curious as to whether this did more harm to the boys or girls when it comes to evaluating mates. I’d guess the former, but it can’t be good for the latter either.

    What’s worse? Having a bad example or no example at all? Probably having a bad example, unfortunately.

  92. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    I doubt this because women are proven to be capable of doing writing and comedy at a high level – unlike say chess, there are known top 100 female writers and comedians and these existed long before the woke AA era.
     
    There are at least three golden-age Broadway female lyricists-- Dorothy Fields, Carolyn Leigh, and Betty Comden. (Okay, two-and-a-half, taking into consideration Adolph Green.) There is no composer counterpart. That seems about right.

    Note that women aren't bad* at either of these pursuits, and on average have a verbal advantage over men. It's just that the right tail of the curve doesn't care about your feelings.


    *Actually, the inability to be really bad is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Sidewalk Meanderings

    In Comment #87, Reg Caesar writes: “Actually, the inability to be really bad
    is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?”
    Lawrence Summers gave a speech on this apparent connection while he was
    president of Harvard University—and was forced to resign in the ensuing
    controversy. In his 2005 speech, he said the “generally greater variability
    among men (compared to women) in tests of cognitive abilities leading to
    proportionally more males than females at both the lower and upper tails
    of the test score distributions” (quote from Wikipedia) may be one reason
    for the under-representation of women in science and engineering. Naturally, the power-mad feminists in academia didn’t like the implication that women aren’t as smart as men at the very top levels of science and
    engineering, and stirred up such a huge stink that the wimpy Harvard faculty passed a vote of no confidence, forcing Summers to resign for daring to question the prevailing orthodoxy.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Sidewalk Meanderings

    I knew about the higher, narrower bell curve, but that concerns differences between individuals, which is not what I am talking about. It's the variation within individuals that matters. How bad a person can get might depend on how bad he can get.

    Joni Mitchell is an exception that "proves the rule". Her "Both Sides Now" is one of the last popular hit songs by either sex written in the classic style to a classic high standard. Just four years after Judy Collins took that gem to the top ten, Joni herself, under label pressure for a hit of her own, sang "You Turn Me On I'm a Radio", a true stinker, albeit one with interesting chord changes.

    She then got into Charles Mingus mindspace. Quite unusual for a woman.

    "Free jazz" cat kitty Carla Bley is another rare example of "girls-gone-wild". But where are the lady Schoenbergs, Partches, and Cages?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  93. @AnotherDad
    @Unintended Consequence


    What about nutso guys? Or are you suggesting they don’t exist unless a rare serial killer or Unabomber type?
     
    Nutso guys are a given.

    Men are really the "dice" for selection. Higher variance, more standouts positive and negative.

    But I will say, that nutso guys are generally easier to spot. They are nutso. Some guy is a loon, abusive, a criminal, he usually is not hiding it super well. It's who he is. And women are generally better at people reading. They can take a pass. (Some unfortunately are drawn to this dysfunction--criminal or other.)

    Men are generally less adept at picking out the BDP head cases from the merely flirty, girly girl. And probably even more the depressives--the one area of nuttiness where women far outpoint men.

    Replies: @Bill P, @Unintended Consequence

    You don’t know the difference between a personality disorder and a mood disorder. Further, a woman’s body has a lot going on during her reproductive years. Combine the greater potential for nutritional deficits with greater emotional volatility with anything going wrong for long enough and you get to depression fairly easily. A lot of the remedy has to do with taking care of one’s physical health. It’s simple enough.

    I get so tired of you ignorant, peremptory types spouting off about things you don’t understand. Don’t you think it’s time for Sailer to post about golf course architecture or baseball stats again?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Unintended Consequence


    You don’t know the difference between a personality disorder and a mood disorder.
     
    Clue us in, please.

    Psychologists have long been fleeing and denouncing their profession's previous stance that homoeroticism is a mental disorder. Meanwhile, the Magisterium holds steadfastly-- and wisely-- to its age-old position that it's a moral disorder.

    So, yes, which kind of disorder a disorder is is of more than a little importance. As Kenny Rogers sang, he just dropped in to see what disorder his disorder is in.



    https://www.themoviedb.org/t/p/w600_and_h900_bestv2/8BZn8MBlc9gjObeO9vhObazBAlc.jpg

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence

  94. @Che Guava
    @Meretricious

    That's not just drawing, it's painting.

    Camille Paglia said something like 'There is no female Mozart just as there is no female Jack the Ripper.'

    I am not sure of that, Lizzie Borden among others gave Jack a run for his money in the murder stakes.

    One thing for sure, looking at a feminist art book trying to push many woman painters into the western canon years ago, the most striking point was that just about all were obsessed with self-portraiture.

    Frida Kahlo as an obvious example, but most of the earlier ones in the book were the same, to centuries earlier.

    As for drawing as such, boys, sadly, are better or more imaginative. Comics everywhere attest to it.

    Same with technical drawing, before it was replaced by CAD software.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @J.Ross, @Veteran Aryan

    Lizzie Bordan was profoundly different than the obsessive, sexually-driven hunter Jack the Ripper. I think boys are more driven than girls to express/assert themselves through drawing.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @JimDandy

    I wasn't trying to draw any equivalence, only that they were operating in a similar time.

    Since she involved unwitting people in cannibalism, it is easy to say that Borden was much worse.

  95. Back when I was in grade school, other kids were constantly stealing my classroom notebooks. At first I thought they were pranking me because I was a nerd, or that they wanted my notes from class because they couldn’t be bothered to take their own notes. Finally I caught a kid who had one of my notebooks, and I said, Look, if you want my class notes, I’ll xerox them for you, no problem, just give me back my notebook.

    He laughed and said, Dude, nobody wants your class notes. We steal them because we want the insane doodles in the margins, and the kooky drawings and bizarre cartoons. People tape them up on their bedroom walls.

    At the same time as this, there were two girls in the class who were very talented artists, who drew all sorts of very accurate skilled depictions of scenes. As far as I remember, nobody was tempted to steal their stuff.

    Here endeth the lesson.

    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    You are Sergio Arigones?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  96. I’m a photographer. I’ve taught (informally) men and women. Most women struggle with things like perspective. Different length lenses produce a change of perspective. A female friend of mine is an excellent artist. She agrees with me. She says that women tend to draw things like animals in a less accurate but more “cute” way, whereas a reasonable male artist usually produces a more accurate drawing. Maybe spatial skills are involved.

  97. @Jack D
    @Almost Missouri

    My mother in law worked as a draftswoman during WWII and apparently she was very good at it. If you look at handwriting, women generally have nicer handwriting then men and are neater in general.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Almost Missouri

    women generally have nicer handwriting then men

    John Hancock …

    … secretly trans?

    • Disagree: Che Guava
  98. @JimDandy
    @Che Guava

    Lizzie Bordan was profoundly different than the obsessive, sexually-driven hunter Jack the Ripper. I think boys are more driven than girls to express/assert themselves through drawing.

    Replies: @Che Guava

    I wasn’t trying to draw any equivalence, only that they were operating in a similar time.

    Since she involved unwitting people in cannibalism, it is easy to say that Borden was much worse.

  99. Why do these people never ask ‘Are Whites or blacks better at drawing?’

    I’ll tell you, it because there are no differences between Whites and blacks other than skin colour!

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Gordo

    I have a wee bit of an art collection, mostly contemporary figurative and some abstract, paintings, drawings, a few lithos, a bit of Japanese sculpture.

    One of the guys who I collect is this Ugandan artist who draws using dried paint pigmentation, which gives an unusual effect: neither pastel nor pencil, but somehow both. He has two basic areas of interest: metaphorical still lifes, and single portraiture, mostly of women. He draws usually black women and white women. What I find noteworthy is that his drawings of black women are much more technically accurate, whereas when he draws white women he makes all sorts of rookie mistakes in things like perspective and limb proportion. Those drawings are still quite good despite the errors, but the difference is striking.

  100. @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    My guess, from going to art museums, would be that, in the usual pattern, at the extreme right edge of the distribution of drawing skills, out there with Raphael (there is, to the best of my knowledge, one Raphael in Southern California, at the Norton Simon museum in Pasadena, and it’s a stunner), there are more males than females.

    But, on average, I’d imagine the sexes are pretty similar. Girls would have better fine-motor skills and boys would tend to have more visual imagination, especially 3-d, so they’d come out pretty similar.
     
    Girls can be very good technical drawers and your average girl is probably more perceptive than your average boy in picking up things like shading (and translating that into color) and other details. (Did we theorize that women's heightened perception of color would aid in gathering fruits and berries, while boys' visual acuity is more tuned to discerning shapes among visual noise which is useful in, say, hunting a grey-brown deer in the lowly lit grey-brown forest covered in dead grey-brown leaves?)

    But the right tail of the bell curve probably rules here as in much else - the top world class artists (insofar as they are rendering something approximating nature) are probably all or mostly all male, while there are a surfeit of very good technical renderers who are female. Modern art would seem to increase parity, but most of it really seems like an inside joke where success is dependent upon a forceful (male) personality to sell the ruse of excellence to the art collecting community in a certain place so modern art is probably still dominated by males but for other reasons.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Red Pill Angel

    your average girl is probably more perceptive than your average boy in picking up things like shading

    Fortunately for Napoleon Dynamite:

  101. @Buzz Mohawk
    @JimB

    Light a flare every 25 feet for 525 feet huh?

    I'd rather call a tow truck than carry 20 flares around in my car all the time, much less set them all up.

    Besides, my insurance pays for the tow truck service. Yours should too; if it doesn't, change it.

    Replies: @Jack D

    On paper I have tow service coverage. However, the one time I used it (not for a flat tire but for a mechanical issue) they took hours to come. My insurance company had subcontracted with the low bidder to provide national towing coverage and they in turn were supposed to subcontract with local towing companies. Somehow the “local” provider for my area was 40 miles away in NJ and I had the impression that they had none to many trucks – maybe even just the one beat up old truck that showed up.

    I guess if you are dividing up the US on a grid, having a provider every 40 miles in Kansas makes sense but in the crowded Northeast it’s ridiculous. In any case, it took hours for them to arrive so I guess you get what you pay for. If you are really interested in towing coverage you would probably be better off with AAA than with what your insurance company gives you as part of your policy.

    OTOH, I understand that in Philly the tow companies compete aggressively to get to the scene of an accident because whoever tows you has various scams going and they are eager to literally hook you onto their scam.

    Once the guy got there, the guy was impressively skillful in getting the car onto the flatbed and off again considering that it wouldn’t start and he had to do all the moving on his end. But waiting 3 hours for a tow was no fun.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Jack D

    I'm sorry to hear your experience has been so bad.

    I've had USAA insurance forever, and they've been berry berry good to me. I got it many years ago thanks to Dad having been in the Navy. They've provided prompt, normal tow truck service on the couple of occasions I've needed it over the past thirty years or so, one time here in the Northeast.

    Never have I needed help for a tire, but a good samaritan once put my spare on for me when I didn't even ask him to. It was that time I wrote about when I spun my RX-7 around and burnt my tires going 90 mph through a curve in Colorado:

    When one tire blew out a mile after the spin, I pulled over and took out the jack and spare. I was already setting up the jack when the first pair of headlights approached in the dark and stopped. A young man climbed out of a pickup. He said he saw me there in my nice sport jacket and didn't think I should have to do that. I let him put my spare on. He mentioned that he was a volunteer fireman in a nearby town.

    The road was a two-lane highway along the Rockies with nice curves and no traffic, so changing a wheel at 2 am would have been no problem, but there are nice people out there who will help you anyway.

  102. @Che Guava
    @Meretricious

    That's not just drawing, it's painting.

    Camille Paglia said something like 'There is no female Mozart just as there is no female Jack the Ripper.'

    I am not sure of that, Lizzie Borden among others gave Jack a run for his money in the murder stakes.

    One thing for sure, looking at a feminist art book trying to push many woman painters into the western canon years ago, the most striking point was that just about all were obsessed with self-portraiture.

    Frida Kahlo as an obvious example, but most of the earlier ones in the book were the same, to centuries earlier.

    As for drawing as such, boys, sadly, are better or more imaginative. Comics everywhere attest to it.

    Same with technical drawing, before it was replaced by CAD software.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @J.Ross, @Veteran Aryan

    Joseph Campbell correctly points out that in the strictest sense Frida Kahlo was not an artist. Kahlo did pictures of her inner world, which cannot be wrong, and are only accidentally interesting to anyone else. An artist by the old rules could be wrong a million ways and was interested in true universals which interest everybody. This is why we still have copies of pictures from the Renaissance but not necessarily from painters from 10-30 years ago.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @J.Ross

    Okay, but anybody can take photorealistic photos today that would have wowed Jan Van Eyck in 1435. Some people find Frida Kahlo's inner world pretty interesting. Not me, but I'm not everybody, and as an old market researcher, I'm aware that other people exist and have their preferences, which aren't always mine.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  103. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    On paper I have tow service coverage. However, the one time I used it (not for a flat tire but for a mechanical issue) they took hours to come. My insurance company had subcontracted with the low bidder to provide national towing coverage and they in turn were supposed to subcontract with local towing companies. Somehow the "local" provider for my area was 40 miles away in NJ and I had the impression that they had none to many trucks - maybe even just the one beat up old truck that showed up.

    I guess if you are dividing up the US on a grid, having a provider every 40 miles in Kansas makes sense but in the crowded Northeast it's ridiculous. In any case, it took hours for them to arrive so I guess you get what you pay for. If you are really interested in towing coverage you would probably be better off with AAA than with what your insurance company gives you as part of your policy.

    OTOH, I understand that in Philly the tow companies compete aggressively to get to the scene of an accident because whoever tows you has various scams going and they are eager to literally hook you onto their scam.

    Once the guy got there, the guy was impressively skillful in getting the car onto the flatbed and off again considering that it wouldn't start and he had to do all the moving on his end. But waiting 3 hours for a tow was no fun.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    I’m sorry to hear your experience has been so bad.

    I’ve had USAA insurance forever, and they’ve been berry berry good to me. I got it many years ago thanks to Dad having been in the Navy. They’ve provided prompt, normal tow truck service on the couple of occasions I’ve needed it over the past thirty years or so, one time here in the Northeast.

    Never have I needed help for a tire, but a good samaritan once put my spare on for me when I didn’t even ask him to. It was that time I wrote about when I spun my RX-7 around and burnt my tires going 90 mph through a curve in Colorado:

    When one tire blew out a mile after the spin, I pulled over and took out the jack and spare. I was already setting up the jack when the first pair of headlights approached in the dark and stopped. A young man climbed out of a pickup. He said he saw me there in my nice sport jacket and didn’t think I should have to do that. I let him put my spare on. He mentioned that he was a volunteer fireman in a nearby town.

    The road was a two-lane highway along the Rockies with nice curves and no traffic, so changing a wheel at 2 am would have been no problem, but there are nice people out there who will help you anyway.

  104. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Art Deco

    "Women predominate in decorative crafts ..."

    It's the rare woman who doesn't overstuff a room with bric-a-brac, knickknacks, and gewgaws. Men, of which I am quite the specimen, prefer spare, sparse, and ultimately empty space. The only adornments attached to my walls are my sketches of Buddy Ebsen in various modes of swimwear. Remember, Labor Day is nearing -- Planet of the Apes Fanfest 2022 at the Hilton Garden Inn in Burbank. Here's an idea: the post office where Steve keeps his b.o. box is quite near the hotel. I thought we could take a drive over there, park, and wait and see if he shows up.

    Replies: @additionalMike, @ForeverCARealist

    Men prefer sparse, empty space? Not after age 30 or so. Then they collect junk and stack it to the ceiling. vacuuming? dusting? Haha.

    Yes, we recently cleaned out a house from a deceased male friend.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Indiana Jack
    @ForeverCARealist

    Hoarding disorder (which sounds like what your friend had) affects both men and women. The subjects of television shows such as Hoarders or Hoarding: Buried Alive are mostly female, but apparently the sex breakdown among hoarders is a subject of debate, with some researchers believing that men are more likely to hoard than women are, but that women are more likely to seek and accept help for the condition.

    Replies: @Che Guava

  105. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    I’m not sure the old system was really better. In the old days (at least since divorce became common) she would have married some guy and then driven him nuts in the divorce settlement and probably for years before that. At least her victim didn’t have to give her half of his assets plus child support.
     
    No system is ideal. Getting two people together--and staying happily together--in order to raise some kids is always going to be a bit of a roll of the dice.

    But I think it works out better if
    -- there is lots of societal support for marriage, for staying together
    -- both parties, but especially the woman have not had a sex with a bunch of other people; sex ideally is their special love world, shared with no one else and ergo a powerful bonding agent
    -- they have a decent amount of time together before having sex
    -- they have a lot of sex together while they are in their "sexual prime"

    The current system seems to leave a lot of people either alienated or jaded. I could have had some sympathy for Emma before the rape allegation. She seemed to have expected something was going to develop, but the guy was a just playing the field, maybe even a cad. But then she wasn't exactly a virgin either, she seemed to be playing the field. So what does she expect? This all just seems to leave a lot of young women confused and hurt. And, of course, it leaves a huge bunch of young men who are not particularly socially facile pissed off. And then these two groups are supposed to get together and hatch the next generation?

    Millenials are--apparently--having less sex than we did, while being more alienated from each other, marrying less and later and having fewer kids. Winning?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Emma before the rape allegation.

    There was no rape allegation, at least not one that any prosecutor would bring before a jury, even in Manhattan. The essence of her complaint was that she had given him permission to use the front hole and he used the other hole. While they teach ” you can revoke consent at any time*” to the kids, the reality is that the feminists just made that up and that’s not how the law actually operates in this area.

    The most bitter irony is that the elaborate verbal “consent at every step” procedure is a complete buzzkill for both parties so you might as well not have sex at all, which is maybe what the feminists actually want.

    * note that “at any time” includes retroactively.

  106. @Che Guava
    @Meretricious

    That's not just drawing, it's painting.

    Camille Paglia said something like 'There is no female Mozart just as there is no female Jack the Ripper.'

    I am not sure of that, Lizzie Borden among others gave Jack a run for his money in the murder stakes.

    One thing for sure, looking at a feminist art book trying to push many woman painters into the western canon years ago, the most striking point was that just about all were obsessed with self-portraiture.

    Frida Kahlo as an obvious example, but most of the earlier ones in the book were the same, to centuries earlier.

    As for drawing as such, boys, sadly, are better or more imaginative. Comics everywhere attest to it.

    Same with technical drawing, before it was replaced by CAD software.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @J.Ross, @Veteran Aryan

    … looking at a feminist art book trying to push many woman painters into the western canon years ago, the most striking point was that just about all were obsessed with self-portraiture.

    When you look at Facebook profiles, the most common thing you will see is women posting selfies and then everyone telling them how beautiful they are. The notable difference between the profiles comes in just who is telling them that they are beautiful. Sometimes it’s many men who have never even meet the women. For others it’s a bunch of men that they do know. Sometimes it’s all their female friends telling them how absolutely gorgeous they are. And sometimes it’s men from other countries who can barely speak English telling the hideous beast how incredibly beautiful they are and they should get to know each other.

    I go through a lot of Facebook profiles in the process of screening potential renters. Many of the selfies are so heavily filtered that I can barely recognize the women, even though I have recently seen them in person. Selfies and filters allow each woman to produce their own self-portraiture and display it in her own little gallery to see what attention they can draw.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @Veteran Aryan

    Ha! Self-portraiture. Just proving my earlier point.

  107. @J.Ross
    @Che Guava

    Joseph Campbell correctly points out that in the strictest sense Frida Kahlo was not an artist. Kahlo did pictures of her inner world, which cannot be wrong, and are only accidentally interesting to anyone else. An artist by the old rules could be wrong a million ways and was interested in true universals which interest everybody. This is why we still have copies of pictures from the Renaissance but not necessarily from painters from 10-30 years ago.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Okay, but anybody can take photorealistic photos today that would have wowed Jan Van Eyck in 1435. Some people find Frida Kahlo’s inner world pretty interesting. Not me, but I’m not everybody, and as an old market researcher, I’m aware that other people exist and have their preferences, which aren’t always mine.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Steve Sailer

    Maybe the question should be who is better IN a drawing, a woman or a man?

    Of course, that depends on who is doing the drawing.

    Standing Female Nude, by Picasso:


    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2010/04/30/arts/30picasso-3/30picasso-3-popup.jpg


    (I actually like Analytical Cubism.)

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  108. @Steve Sailer
    @J.Ross

    Okay, but anybody can take photorealistic photos today that would have wowed Jan Van Eyck in 1435. Some people find Frida Kahlo's inner world pretty interesting. Not me, but I'm not everybody, and as an old market researcher, I'm aware that other people exist and have their preferences, which aren't always mine.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Maybe the question should be who is better IN a drawing, a woman or a man?

    Of course, that depends on who is doing the drawing.

    Standing Female Nude, by Picasso:

    (I actually like Analytical Cubism.)

    • Agree: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Buzz Mohawk

    PS: For those who don't already know and might find it hard to believe, Picasso was an excellent draughtsman. He did this drawing of a sculpture when he was 13 or 14 years old:


    https://mediaproxy.salon.com/width/1200/https://media.salon.com/2012/01/01_Study_of_a_Torso_1895_MuseuPicasso_Barcelona_600.png


    The man could draw and paint whatever he wanted, so eventually he did. Somewhere I recall he was quoted as saying it took him a lifetime to learn how to draw like a child.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  109. Anonymous[125] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Modern Leftist ideology (which is the dominant ideology) is all about flipping the totem pole. Sure, straight white men have been on top for the last couple of thousand years at least, but that's only because they got there by repressing everyone else.

    The natural state of thing is that white men are BAD at everything (except maybe shooting up elementary schools and repressing other people, but we're not going to allow that from now on) and women, people of color and LGBTQ+ people are the best at everything. If you are some combination of the above, then even better!


    So it goes without saying that, even though the art museums are filled mostly with paintings by male artists, women are naturally better at drawing since women are naturally better at EVERYTHING, as long as you don't stop to think about it. The latter part is very important - no thinking allowed, just go with your automatic reaction based on your brainwashing.

    It's interesting BTW that women are not that good at drawing given their ability to do fine detail work. Back in the day, every young woman was supposed to produce a "sampler" which was an example of her needlework skills. In addition to stitching the alphabet, typically there were also pictures rendered in embroidery. In surviving examples, the quality of the pictures varies from awful to quite nice:

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/09/14/07/13/1d119a4d-e897-4ba5-af17-695079c53a96/2006BF5312-boxer-sampler-1280.jpg

    https://vanda-production-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/16/11/08/14/d9053d10-63ab-4706-8676-86bbf4d3e3ea/2018LE4007-1950s-sampler.jpg

    I gather though that the pictures were quite often copied from other sources. If women lack the spatial orientation to do original drawing you would think that they would at least have the focus to do the fine detail work. To some extent that is true and for example the people who were employed to hand decorate china (a form of painting) were often female.

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence, @International Jew, @Art Deco, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous

    A lot of electronics assembly is done by women. They’re better than men at closework. Smaller fingers of course, but there’s probably more to it than that. After all, the skills involved in manipulating tiny electronic components are the same as those involved in extracting peas from pods, plucking nuts and berries from shrubs, pulling up small plants, and similar activities involved in the “gathering” part of the premodern human “hunting and gathering” way of life. Women have been doing these things for a very long time.

    (The female love of shopping is also a legacy of this. The only reason high street stores still exist at all is because of the female urge to go out with friends and collect “stuff”.)

  110. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Back when I was in grade school, other kids were constantly stealing my classroom notebooks. At first I thought they were pranking me because I was a nerd, or that they wanted my notes from class because they couldn't be bothered to take their own notes. Finally I caught a kid who had one of my notebooks, and I said, Look, if you want my class notes, I'll xerox them for you, no problem, just give me back my notebook.

    He laughed and said, Dude, nobody wants your class notes. We steal them because we want the insane doodles in the margins, and the kooky drawings and bizarre cartoons. People tape them up on their bedroom walls.

    At the same time as this, there were two girls in the class who were very talented artists, who drew all sorts of very accurate skilled depictions of scenes. As far as I remember, nobody was tempted to steal their stuff.

    Here endeth the lesson.

    Replies: @flyingtiger

    You are Sergio Arigones?

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @flyingtiger

    "You are Sergio Aragones?"

    I wish. No, but he was a big influence on me as a kid -- my parents taught me to read using the Bible and MAD magazine. My stuff as a kid looked like a bizarre mix of Aragones, Don Martin, R. Crumb and Krazy Kat. (Some kid said to me once, "Dude, you're a total geek, but you must smoke a TON of weed!") A la Aragones, I used to make cartoon flip-books in the margins of the classroom bibles.

    I met Aragones once, at the San Diego Comicon. Also met Mort Drucker, and spent a whole evening hanging out with the Hernandez Brothers --- Los Bros, dude! They nearly burnt a Coolness hole into the center of the earth.

    Never got to meet Don Martin though. SQUIZZZONK!

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  111. @Gordo
    Why do these people never ask ‘Are Whites or blacks better at drawing?’

    I’ll tell you, it because there are no differences between Whites and blacks other than skin colour!

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I have a wee bit of an art collection, mostly contemporary figurative and some abstract, paintings, drawings, a few lithos, a bit of Japanese sculpture.

    One of the guys who I collect is this Ugandan artist who draws using dried paint pigmentation, which gives an unusual effect: neither pastel nor pencil, but somehow both. He has two basic areas of interest: metaphorical still lifes, and single portraiture, mostly of women. He draws usually black women and white women. What I find noteworthy is that his drawings of black women are much more technically accurate, whereas when he draws white women he makes all sorts of rookie mistakes in things like perspective and limb proportion. Those drawings are still quite good despite the errors, but the difference is striking.

    • Thanks: Gordo
  112. @Thomm
    Since Asian crime rates are lower than that of whites (as Mr. Twinkacetti demands be mentioned in every thread), there was a robbery that backfired in Las Vegas.

    Two wiggers try to rob an Asian-run shop. The Asian men took out a knife and stabbed one of them :

    https://news.yahoo.com/video-captures-las-vegas-vape-175856683.html

    https://youtu.be/RCu4G_ZkBI0


    The kid that got stabbed probably wasn't even the mastermind. He just went along with his WN wigger friend.

    I bet this won't make the crime lists here since the race combo is not the one sought.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

  113. @Veteran Aryan
    @Che Guava


    ... looking at a feminist art book trying to push many woman painters into the western canon years ago, the most striking point was that just about all were obsessed with self-portraiture.
     
    When you look at Facebook profiles, the most common thing you will see is women posting selfies and then everyone telling them how beautiful they are. The notable difference between the profiles comes in just who is telling them that they are beautiful. Sometimes it's many men who have never even meet the women. For others it's a bunch of men that they do know. Sometimes it's all their female friends telling them how absolutely gorgeous they are. And sometimes it's men from other countries who can barely speak English telling the hideous beast how incredibly beautiful they are and they should get to know each other.

    I go through a lot of Facebook profiles in the process of screening potential renters. Many of the selfies are so heavily filtered that I can barely recognize the women, even though I have recently seen them in person. Selfies and filters allow each woman to produce their own self-portraiture and display it in her own little gallery to see what attention they can draw.

    Replies: @Che Guava

    Ha! Self-portraiture. Just proving my earlier point.

  114. @Sidewalk Meanderings
    @Reg Cæsar

    In Comment #87, Reg Caesar writes: "Actually, the inability to be really bad
    is probably connected to the inability to be really great. Has this been studied?"
    Lawrence Summers gave a speech on this apparent connection while he was
    president of Harvard University---and was forced to resign in the ensuing
    controversy. In his 2005 speech, he said the "generally greater variability
    among men (compared to women) in tests of cognitive abilities leading to
    proportionally more males than females at both the lower and upper tails
    of the test score distributions" (quote from Wikipedia) may be one reason
    for the under-representation of women in science and engineering. Naturally, the power-mad feminists in academia didn't like the implication that women aren't as smart as men at the very top levels of science and
    engineering, and stirred up such a huge stink that the wimpy Harvard faculty passed a vote of no confidence, forcing Summers to resign for daring to question the prevailing orthodoxy.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I knew about the higher, narrower bell curve, but that concerns differences between individuals, which is not what I am talking about. It’s the variation within individuals that matters. How bad a person can get might depend on how bad he can get.

    Joni Mitchell is an exception that “proves the rule”. Her “Both Sides Now” is one of the last popular hit songs by either sex written in the classic style to a classic high standard. Just four years after Judy Collins took that gem to the top ten, Joni herself, under label pressure for a hit of her own, sang “You Turn Me On I’m a Radio”, a true stinker, albeit one with interesting chord changes.

    She then got into Charles Mingus mindspace. Quite unusual for a woman.

    “Free jazz” cat kitty Carla Bley is another rare example of “girls-gone-wild”. But where are the lady Schoenbergs, Partches, and Cages?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Reg Cæsar


    How bad a person can get might depend on how bad he can get.
     
    How good a person can get might depend on how bad he can get.

    (Mea culpa. Can't blame that one on Android autocorrupt.)
  115. @Unintended Consequence
    @AnotherDad

    You don't know the difference between a personality disorder and a mood disorder. Further, a woman's body has a lot going on during her reproductive years. Combine the greater potential for nutritional deficits with greater emotional volatility with anything going wrong for long enough and you get to depression fairly easily. A lot of the remedy has to do with taking care of one's physical health. It's simple enough.

    I get so tired of you ignorant, peremptory types spouting off about things you don't understand. Don't you think it's time for Sailer to post about golf course architecture or baseball stats again?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    You don’t know the difference between a personality disorder and a mood disorder.

    Clue us in, please.

    Psychologists have long been fleeing and denouncing their profession’s previous stance that homoeroticism is a mental disorder. Meanwhile, the Magisterium holds steadfastly– and wisely– to its age-old position that it’s a moral disorder.

    So, yes, which kind of disorder a disorder is is of more than a little importance. As Kenny Rogers sang, he just dropped in to see what disorder his disorder is in.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Unintended Consequence
    @Reg Cæsar

    I see what condition you are in, Reg. It's said that moral fortitude would help you resist creating altered states for purposes of entertainment. Generally speaking, I'd advise selecting a set of worthwhile pursuits and regularly attending to them. Structure your free time and give yourself fully to healthy pursuits. You know what they say about idle hands and idle minds.

  116. @Reg Cæsar
    @Sidewalk Meanderings

    I knew about the higher, narrower bell curve, but that concerns differences between individuals, which is not what I am talking about. It's the variation within individuals that matters. How bad a person can get might depend on how bad he can get.

    Joni Mitchell is an exception that "proves the rule". Her "Both Sides Now" is one of the last popular hit songs by either sex written in the classic style to a classic high standard. Just four years after Judy Collins took that gem to the top ten, Joni herself, under label pressure for a hit of her own, sang "You Turn Me On I'm a Radio", a true stinker, albeit one with interesting chord changes.

    She then got into Charles Mingus mindspace. Quite unusual for a woman.

    "Free jazz" cat kitty Carla Bley is another rare example of "girls-gone-wild". But where are the lady Schoenbergs, Partches, and Cages?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    How bad a person can get might depend on how bad he can get.

    How good a person can get might depend on how bad he can get.

    (Mea culpa. Can’t blame that one on Android autocorrupt.)

  117. @Reg Cæsar
    @Unintended Consequence


    You don’t know the difference between a personality disorder and a mood disorder.
     
    Clue us in, please.

    Psychologists have long been fleeing and denouncing their profession's previous stance that homoeroticism is a mental disorder. Meanwhile, the Magisterium holds steadfastly-- and wisely-- to its age-old position that it's a moral disorder.

    So, yes, which kind of disorder a disorder is is of more than a little importance. As Kenny Rogers sang, he just dropped in to see what disorder his disorder is in.



    https://www.themoviedb.org/t/p/w600_and_h900_bestv2/8BZn8MBlc9gjObeO9vhObazBAlc.jpg

    Replies: @Unintended Consequence

    I see what condition you are in, Reg. It’s said that moral fortitude would help you resist creating altered states for purposes of entertainment. Generally speaking, I’d advise selecting a set of worthwhile pursuits and regularly attending to them. Structure your free time and give yourself fully to healthy pursuits. You know what they say about idle hands and idle minds.

  118. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Steve Sailer

    Maybe the question should be who is better IN a drawing, a woman or a man?

    Of course, that depends on who is doing the drawing.

    Standing Female Nude, by Picasso:


    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2010/04/30/arts/30picasso-3/30picasso-3-popup.jpg


    (I actually like Analytical Cubism.)

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    PS: For those who don’t already know and might find it hard to believe, Picasso was an excellent draughtsman. He did this drawing of a sculpture when he was 13 or 14 years old:

    The man could draw and paint whatever he wanted, so eventually he did. Somewhere I recall he was quoted as saying it took him a lifetime to learn how to draw like a child.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Buzz Mohawk

    "PS: For those who don’t already know and might find it hard to believe, Picasso was an excellent draughtsman. "

    Andy Warhol, too: excellent professional commercial illustrator in his youth.

    Jackson Pollock, just mediocre, but points for trying, and ultimately a spectacular painter so it didn't matter in the end.

  119. @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    My guess, from going to art museums, would be that, in the usual pattern, at the extreme right edge of the distribution of drawing skills, out there with Raphael (there is, to the best of my knowledge, one Raphael in Southern California, at the Norton Simon museum in Pasadena, and it’s a stunner), there are more males than females.

    But, on average, I’d imagine the sexes are pretty similar. Girls would have better fine-motor skills and boys would tend to have more visual imagination, especially 3-d, so they’d come out pretty similar.
     
    Girls can be very good technical drawers and your average girl is probably more perceptive than your average boy in picking up things like shading (and translating that into color) and other details. (Did we theorize that women's heightened perception of color would aid in gathering fruits and berries, while boys' visual acuity is more tuned to discerning shapes among visual noise which is useful in, say, hunting a grey-brown deer in the lowly lit grey-brown forest covered in dead grey-brown leaves?)

    But the right tail of the bell curve probably rules here as in much else - the top world class artists (insofar as they are rendering something approximating nature) are probably all or mostly all male, while there are a surfeit of very good technical renderers who are female. Modern art would seem to increase parity, but most of it really seems like an inside joke where success is dependent upon a forceful (male) personality to sell the ruse of excellence to the art collecting community in a certain place so modern art is probably still dominated by males but for other reasons.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Red Pill Angel

    You are right about women being good at detail and color. Women were employed by publishers in the 19th century to turn photos and drawings into engravings. The work was incredibly precise. I made As in technical drawing years ago, but the best men’s drawings often have more depth, even if my shading is quite accurate. The best of men’s drawings of the human figure seem better to me than the best of women’s, although that leaves a lot of room for overlap. Julie Bell is an exception but she is married to Boris Vallejo, a well known figurative fantasy painter. He taught her to paint in his style, plus she’s very shapely and often used herself as a model. A male artist once said to me that men simply spend more time looking at people’s bodies, period, both men’s and women’s bodies, and women don’t, and thus can call up physical imagery more easily. Frank Frazetta claimed he painted all his pictures without even needing a model! Women look more at people’s faces and as a result can become excellent portraitists.

    • Replies: @Catdog
    @Red Pill Angel

    "Frank Frazetta claimed he painted all his pictures without even needing a model!"
    FF is infamous for his lies. It has been proven that he worked from photographs. He even traced other artist's work sometimes. I'm not saying that FF wasn't very talented, and this isn't surprising, since pretty much all working artists do this.

    Replies: @Wolf Barney

  120. @JimB
    @Steve Sailer

    Keep red phosphorous flares in your trunk and put them every 25 feet for 525 feet behind where your car has broken down on the road. 525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Buzz Mohawk, @kaganovitch

    Keep red phosphorous flares in your trunk and put them every 25 feet for 525 feet behind where your car has broken down. 525 feet is the typical distance it takes a tractor trailer to stop.

    A six pack of flares is thirty bucks at Amazon, so this little trek will cost you \$100 . I vote for the tow truck.

  121. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Buzz Mohawk

    PS: For those who don't already know and might find it hard to believe, Picasso was an excellent draughtsman. He did this drawing of a sculpture when he was 13 or 14 years old:


    https://mediaproxy.salon.com/width/1200/https://media.salon.com/2012/01/01_Study_of_a_Torso_1895_MuseuPicasso_Barcelona_600.png


    The man could draw and paint whatever he wanted, so eventually he did. Somewhere I recall he was quoted as saying it took him a lifetime to learn how to draw like a child.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “PS: For those who don’t already know and might find it hard to believe, Picasso was an excellent draughtsman. ”

    Andy Warhol, too: excellent professional commercial illustrator in his youth.

    Jackson Pollock, just mediocre, but points for trying, and ultimately a spectacular painter so it didn’t matter in the end.

  122. @flyingtiger
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    You are Sergio Arigones?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “You are Sergio Aragones?”

    I wish. No, but he was a big influence on me as a kid — my parents taught me to read using the Bible and MAD magazine. My stuff as a kid looked like a bizarre mix of Aragones, Don Martin, R. Crumb and Krazy Kat. (Some kid said to me once, “Dude, you’re a total geek, but you must smoke a TON of weed!”) A la Aragones, I used to make cartoon flip-books in the margins of the classroom bibles.

    I met Aragones once, at the San Diego Comicon. Also met Mort Drucker, and spent a whole evening hanging out with the Hernandez Brothers — Los Bros, dude! They nearly burnt a Coolness hole into the center of the earth.

    Never got to meet Don Martin though. SQUIZZZONK!

    • LOL: Red Pill Angel
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I once lived next door to a person who worked for DC Comics on the business side and who knew the guys at MAD. My neighbor's name was even on the masthead, and that was very cool. Alas, this was already during hard times for the magazine, and I would hear about how it was basically on life support and available to a buyer "CHEAP."

    Having grown up with it, I fantasized about actually buying the magazine just to try doing something with it. (I had published a free 'zine in a previous life, but that was amateur stuff.) I never asked what a serious offer would be, because I knew it would be a loss at any amount, but it sounded like it would possibly be within my means at that point if I was willing to dip heavily into things.

    It was a heady question: "Could I actually own Mad Magazine? If so, would I go down in pop culture history as the last owner? What, me worry?"

    The magazine had not been anything like itself for years by then. The culture had changed, and the internet had changed publishing. Graphic novels were big and I would get a stack of them from my neighbor every Christmas. I was too gracious to mention my lack of interest.

    PS: I drew a few flip-card cartoons myself. My best was a dog lifting its leg and pissing on a fire hydrant. I was amazed that it actually worked.

  123. @ForeverCARealist
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Men prefer sparse, empty space? Not after age 30 or so. Then they collect junk and stack it to the ceiling. vacuuming? dusting? Haha.

    Yes, we recently cleaned out a house from a deceased male friend.

    Replies: @Indiana Jack

    Hoarding disorder (which sounds like what your friend had) affects both men and women. The subjects of television shows such as Hoarders or Hoarding: Buried Alive are mostly female, but apparently the sex breakdown among hoarders is a subject of debate, with some researchers believing that men are more likely to hoard than women are, but that women are more likely to seek and accept help for the condition.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @Indiana Jack

    Hoarding, (in that sense) obviously, was a desirable trait in terms of evolution, until the advent of the throw-away society.

    Hoarders of that type tended to freely give parts of their hoards away, to relatives and friends or even strangers needing something they had.

  124. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @flyingtiger

    "You are Sergio Aragones?"

    I wish. No, but he was a big influence on me as a kid -- my parents taught me to read using the Bible and MAD magazine. My stuff as a kid looked like a bizarre mix of Aragones, Don Martin, R. Crumb and Krazy Kat. (Some kid said to me once, "Dude, you're a total geek, but you must smoke a TON of weed!") A la Aragones, I used to make cartoon flip-books in the margins of the classroom bibles.

    I met Aragones once, at the San Diego Comicon. Also met Mort Drucker, and spent a whole evening hanging out with the Hernandez Brothers --- Los Bros, dude! They nearly burnt a Coolness hole into the center of the earth.

    Never got to meet Don Martin though. SQUIZZZONK!

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    I once lived next door to a person who worked for DC Comics on the business side and who knew the guys at MAD. My neighbor’s name was even on the masthead, and that was very cool. Alas, this was already during hard times for the magazine, and I would hear about how it was basically on life support and available to a buyer “CHEAP.”

    [MORE]

    Having grown up with it, I fantasized about actually buying the magazine just to try doing something with it. (I had published a free ‘zine in a previous life, but that was amateur stuff.) I never asked what a serious offer would be, because I knew it would be a loss at any amount, but it sounded like it would possibly be within my means at that point if I was willing to dip heavily into things.

    It was a heady question: “Could I actually own Mad Magazine? If so, would I go down in pop culture history as the last owner? What, me worry?”

    The magazine had not been anything like itself for years by then. The culture had changed, and the internet had changed publishing. Graphic novels were big and I would get a stack of them from my neighbor every Christmas. I was too gracious to mention my lack of interest.

    PS: I drew a few flip-card cartoons myself. My best was a dog lifting its leg and pissing on a fire hydrant. I was amazed that it actually worked.

  125. Are Men or Women Better at Drawing?

    with the objective of what?
    obviously based on vox populi Americans find Japanese anime (done by females) superior to anything else
    https://japanobjects.com/features/female-manga-artists

  126. @Cosmohicks
    "What I remember from 8th grade, which was the last time I had to take an art class, is that the boys who liked drawing really, really liked drawing and did it obsessively. This was way less the case among the girls."

    I remember this. One kid could draw like perfect Looney Toons style cartoons and was obsessed with it, cuz he was good.

    One area we have pretty objective data now is chess talent, women cannot crack world top 100 (although they have). Of course when they do it's awesome and they receive nothing but encouragement, but women probably can't recreate that eighth grade obsessive chess phase the top male players had, which serves as a base for when they go next level. Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers.

    Replies: @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    “Probably how comedy writing talent works, too, RIP TV comedy with half female writers.”

    How could you say such a thing? There are great female comics, like er.. this one!

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/aug/09/amy-gledhill-review-monkey-barrel-edinburgh

    The Girl Before the Girl You Marry, Amy Gledhill calls her new show, which traces a life of watching ex-boyfriends swiftly get hitched.

    For some reason, Lord knows what it might be, all her ex-boyfriends then get hitched elsewhere. I think this should be filed under tragicomedy.

    Elsewhere in the Graun:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/10/obese-patients-weight-shamed-doctors-nurses

    Doctors and nurses often “weight-shame” people who are overweight or obese, leaving them feeling anxious, depressed and wrongly blaming themselves for their condition, research has found.

    Such behaviour, although usually the result of “unconscious weight bias”, leads to people not attending medical appointments, feeling humiliated and being more likely to put on weight.

    The problem is so widespread around the world that health professionals need to be taught as students that excess weight is almost guaranteed in modern society and not the fault of individuals, so they treat people more sensitively, according to the authors of the study, who have shared their findings with the Guardian.

    Their analysis found that a number of health professionals “believe their patients are lazy, lack self-control, overindulge, are hostile, dishonest, have poor hygiene and do not follow guidance”, said Kalea, an associate professor in UCL’s division of medicine.

    To be fair, most doctors, health care assistants and nurses will have a horror story about a morbidly obese patient with whole colonies of little known organisms living in the damp and sheltered environment of their flesh folds.

  127. @Red Pill Angel
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    You are right about women being good at detail and color. Women were employed by publishers in the 19th century to turn photos and drawings into engravings. The work was incredibly precise. I made As in technical drawing years ago, but the best men’s drawings often have more depth, even if my shading is quite accurate. The best of men’s drawings of the human figure seem better to me than the best of women’s, although that leaves a lot of room for overlap. Julie Bell is an exception but she is married to Boris Vallejo, a well known figurative fantasy painter. He taught her to paint in his style, plus she’s very shapely and often used herself as a model. A male artist once said to me that men simply spend more time looking at people’s bodies, period, both men’s and women’s bodies, and women don’t, and thus can call up physical imagery more easily. Frank Frazetta claimed he painted all his pictures without even needing a model! Women look more at people’s faces and as a result can become excellent portraitists.

    Replies: @Catdog

    “Frank Frazetta claimed he painted all his pictures without even needing a model!”
    FF is infamous for his lies. It has been proven that he worked from photographs. He even traced other artist’s work sometimes. I’m not saying that FF wasn’t very talented, and this isn’t surprising, since pretty much all working artists do this.

    • Thanks: Red Pill Angel
    • Replies: @Wolf Barney
    @Catdog

    I don't know if Frank Frazetta is lying or not, but for some artists it's not difficult to draw or paint without a model. After painting for so many years, the mind becomes a repository for images, and it becomes second nature to draw or paint something.

    Replies: @Red Pill Angel

  128. I’m in the world of watercolor and have noticed that workshops from top instructors will generally attract more females than males. The females tend to be older, 50 years and up, and seem to be there more for the social aspect and also because they appreciate the beauty of watercolor painting. The males generally tend to be more serious about the nuts and bolts of painting, such as learning design principles.

    Among the outstanding watercolor painters and instructors there are more men, at least more men who I consider great, although there are some women who I admire. Racially, there are an overwhelming number of White people in this field, although I see a lot of talented Asians (including Indian), which makes sense since they’ve grown up using a brush artistically writing (really drawing) their language. I can only think of one black well-known watercolor artist, Dean Mitchell, who unsurprisingly gets a lot of attention.

    • Thanks: Red Pill Angel
  129. @Catdog
    @Red Pill Angel

    "Frank Frazetta claimed he painted all his pictures without even needing a model!"
    FF is infamous for his lies. It has been proven that he worked from photographs. He even traced other artist's work sometimes. I'm not saying that FF wasn't very talented, and this isn't surprising, since pretty much all working artists do this.

    Replies: @Wolf Barney

    I don’t know if Frank Frazetta is lying or not, but for some artists it’s not difficult to draw or paint without a model. After painting for so many years, the mind becomes a repository for images, and it becomes second nature to draw or paint something.

    • Replies: @Red Pill Angel
    @Wolf Barney

    There are certainly artists out there who can draw realistic women right out of their heads, and men too. Frazetta’s faces were often stylized and cartoonish which suggests he drew at least partly from memory. A documentary about him a few years back, however, showed glimpses of his wife, and although older at that time she was still quite shapely with muscular legs and looked suspiciously like his women. He lifted weights, and probably used himself too, and surely lied about never using resource material at all. Even so, a photo isn’t a painting, and he had to have a pretty good map of the human body in his head, and mastery of painting, to get the look of flesh so well.

  130. @Paul Jolliffe
    @International Jew

    It also depends where you are when the tire goes.
    Two years ago I had a blowout on the freeway at 75 mph in the center lane and just barely wrestled it to the right shoulder.

    Front left tire shredded.

    I was not changing anything with my back to the road on the side of the freeway with everyone zipping along at 75 minimum.

    I called a tow truck and let that guy take me to a nearby tire shop.
    He told me he’d been doing it 20 years and no one ever slows down.

    Never change a tire on the side of the freeway.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ian M.

    I remember John Derbyshire writing that he once changed a tire on the side of FDR Drive, which I imagine might have been rather harrowing.

  131. When I was young, comic books were mostly run by men and a few talented women, If an issue sold less than 100,00, it would be soon cancelled. Now women run the industry, complete with listed pronouns. If an issue sells more than 10,00 it is a top seller. Men seem to know how to draw and tell an interesting story. Women do not.

  132. @Wolf Barney
    @Catdog

    I don't know if Frank Frazetta is lying or not, but for some artists it's not difficult to draw or paint without a model. After painting for so many years, the mind becomes a repository for images, and it becomes second nature to draw or paint something.

    Replies: @Red Pill Angel

    There are certainly artists out there who can draw realistic women right out of their heads, and men too. Frazetta’s faces were often stylized and cartoonish which suggests he drew at least partly from memory. A documentary about him a few years back, however, showed glimpses of his wife, and although older at that time she was still quite shapely with muscular legs and looked suspiciously like his women. He lifted weights, and probably used himself too, and surely lied about never using resource material at all. Even so, a photo isn’t a painting, and he had to have a pretty good map of the human body in his head, and mastery of painting, to get the look of flesh so well.

  133. @Indiana Jack
    @ForeverCARealist

    Hoarding disorder (which sounds like what your friend had) affects both men and women. The subjects of television shows such as Hoarders or Hoarding: Buried Alive are mostly female, but apparently the sex breakdown among hoarders is a subject of debate, with some researchers believing that men are more likely to hoard than women are, but that women are more likely to seek and accept help for the condition.

    Replies: @Che Guava

    Hoarding, (in that sense) obviously, was a desirable trait in terms of evolution, until the advent of the throw-away society.

    Hoarders of that type tended to freely give parts of their hoards away, to relatives and friends or even strangers needing something they had.

  134. The war between the sexes should rank as one of the dumbest and most futile pursuits ever undertaken by man.

    It’s not a war. Dick goes in pussy, it does not kill pussy. We are obviously complimentary beings. And even if you don’t believe that, you need the other just as much as they need you, so fighting is clearly irrational and stupid.

    The notion that women can be Michelangelo is almost as ridiculous as saying they can be a police officer. That much is clear. These are male callings and there is absolutely no reason to expect women will excel at them. That’s the problem with all these comparisons. They are almost exclusively applied to male pursuits. Society expects women to act as males to be real women. It’s not going to work.

    Instead we should we focus on what women actually excel at, so we can fully appreciate their real role in human life.

    Mating. For men it is only a matter of her looking good. Not being a whore or outright crazy is preferred in a wife, but to simply stick his dick pretty will do just fine. When you consider the magic a woman can perform with makeup, clothing and Jewish MDs, and of course the beer in your belly, this is an exceedingly reckless activity for men.

    Women don’t fall for that trick. You should look good, genetically healthy of course, but you better also have a bunch of other qualities, real qualities, or you can forget about getting access to that pussy. You say “but I know plenty of whores”, yes but hypergamy is still real, and the best thing ever to come out of this age. Women today are shutting out 25% of the male genetic pool from reproducing, and you know it is the bottom pool. If we can just keep these Jews and foreigners from totally exterminating us this development may prove very favorable to the genetic health of our race.

    Housekeeping. No, this is no joke and I’m not talking about doing the laundry. Women create homes. They keep them clean. Picture any single dude’s home and you know what I mean. Why is this important? Because it keeps society presentable. In many ways it is what makes civilization possible. Without them the place would look like a dump, like a men’s toilet. Just take a look at some all-male activities and ask yourself if great civilizations can arise from this?

    I dare say both of these are cornerstones in preserving race and civilization, unless men do something stupid like allowing Jews to come in.

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