The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Are Ethiopians Descended from the Sea Peoples?
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Many of the peoples of Ethiopia, such as the Amhara, tend to look like a blend between sub-Saharan Africans and Caucasians. By their own legend, they are descended from the son of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba, King Menelik I. But which Caucasians?

From Scientific Reports:

Published: 11 December 2019
West Asian sources of the Eurasian component in Ethiopians: a reassessment
Ludovica Molinaro, Francesco Montinaro, Burak Yelmen, Davide Marnetto, Doron M. Behar, Toomas Kivisild & Luca Pagani
Scientific Reports volume 9, Article number: 18811 (2019)

Abstract
… Our results unveil a genomic legacy that may connect the Eurasian genetic component of contemporary Ethiopians with Sea People and with population movements that affected the Mediterranean area and the Levant after the fall of the Minoan civilization.

The Sea People are the mysterious ethnicities whom the the Pharaoh of Egypt blamed for what is now known as the Late Bronze Age Collapse, after about 1200 BC (the time of the Trojan War and much other tumult).

The most sensible-sounding explanation for the Late Bronze Age Collapse of the palace cultures of the Near East is the rise of the Iron Age (iron is more widespread, cheaper, and more democratic in its effects). But the dates can’t seem to be made to match up.

Our analyses aimed at describing the non African component of Ethiopians as a combination of available ancient ones, and we stress our results should not be interpreted as involving a direct connection or descent line between Neolithic Anatolia and Ethiopia. Instead, these results can be seen as informative for shortlisting available ancient and modern populations which, following geographic and chronological considerations, may be suitable proxies for the groups that mediated the Eurasian gene flow to East Africa. Of the ones analyzed here, Minoans and Tunisian Jews seem to provide the two closest matches to NAF [non-African ancestors of Ethiopians], adding on top of the genetic evidence a criteria of space/time compatibility. A tentative link between these three groups may be provided by the historical maritime trade routes connecting Crete (home to the Minoan culture) to the Levant and by the shuffling role played by a horde of nomads who navigated throughout the Mediterranean Sea 3 kya: the Sea People. These tribes are linked to Crete, Anatolia where they fought the Hittite Empire, Egypt and the Levant, and are told to have settled in the land of Canaan, known also as Palestine.

Most of the theories about the Sea People suggest that they were more or less Cretan or Greek.

One theory is that the Philistines, enemies of Samson in the Old Testament, were a Sea People.

Interestingly, the Sea People tribes that settled in Palestine included, among others, Denyen and Peleset according to the Egyptian inscriptions of Merneptah and Medinet Habu. Although there are different theories around the origin of each of these tribes, there are suggestions that link the Denyen with the tribe of Dan, from which Jews from Ethiopia have been said to descend, and the Peleset to the Philistines from the Levant. The role of Sea People may therefore be crucial in explaining a temporary presence of a Minoan-like ancestry in the Levant, bringing Anatolian-like components to levels as high as 85%. A pulse of populations with Anatolian-rich ancestry has just been recently detected in Iron Age Levant, appearing and disappearing from the archaeological record within a range of few centuries, at the beginning of the 1st Millennium BCE. These Levant Iron Age samples can indeed be modelled as having at least 80% Anatolian Neolithic ancestry (~20% CHG [Caucasian Hunter-Gatherer] and ~80% Anatolia_N, … Notably Ethiopian NAF is still closer than Levant IA to Tunisian Jews (Supplementary Table S5). Ethiopian NAF therefore offers a solution to the disappearance of the Levant IA component from the population record of the area, where their signal may have become erased as a consequence of major warfare after 1000 BCE20 or 3 kya, displacing these genetic components towards Ethiopia (an allegory of which can be read in the mythological account of the meeting between King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba) and North Africa Jewish communities (where such a signature is still detectable after the major population movements following the Alhambra Decree after 1492 CE).

 
Hide 54 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Anon[349] • Disclaimer says:

    We need a new Sea Peoples, shipborne pirates and terrorists who can invade every coastal nation on earth at will and raise 666, a liquid ISIS. They could start by taking over remote islands. Tristan De Cunha? In the US Catalina Island would be a good place to start the second phase. Tie the inhabitants to ship masts, set them on fire, and send them floating towards Venice to terrify Mickey Kaus and Conor Friedersdorf. Drone footage on the news. Life needs to be more interesting, and missions to Mars won’t suffice.

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • LOL: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @El Dato
    Don't we need nano-technology first? And antimatter capsules.

    Make Washington a gigaton moonscape surrounded by people-harvesting grey goo again!
    , @Gordo

    We need a new Sea Peoples, shipborne pirates and terrorists who can invade every coastal nation on earth at will.
     
    Is that you BAP?
    , @Svevlad
    Hmm, if this is what we have to go by, (((our benefactors))) are doing just via mass importation of Somalis
  2. As I was taught in school, Sea Peoples were some variants of Indo-Europeans.

    • Replies: @carol
    All Mysterious Peoples are IE, aren't they?

    But now we have genomes and stuff.
    , @Neoconned
    I re read the wiki article about the Sea Peoples....found it interesting that theres so much skepticism "since the early 1990s...."

    I don't understand why an early Anatolian invasion of Egypt is so jard to swallow....
  3. Is this the same wandering tribe that merged with the Khoisan? The dates seem to match.

    https://m.phys.org/news/2014-02-western-eurasian-genes-southern-african.html

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I call it the King Solomon's Mines era after the 1885 bestseller that was the first English language adventure novel set in Africa.
    , @nokangaroos
    The ruins of Zimbabwe sure look Mediterranean-megalithic (especially the zigzag frieze).

    I can only imagine the Afrocentrists giving thanks for the Bantu expansion killing off most relic populations :P

  4. @TelfoedJohn
    Is this the same wandering tribe that merged with the Khoisan? The dates seem to match.

    https://m.phys.org/news/2014-02-western-eurasian-genes-southern-african.html

    I call it the King Solomon’s Mines era after the 1885 bestseller that was the first English language adventure novel set in Africa.

    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    It would certainly make a great H Rider Haggard story - adventurous Europeans cross the dark continent from the Horn to the Cape making love to the local women, before both the Euros and natives are slaughtered by the vanguard of the Bantu expansion. I don’t think it quite fits the current political climate.
    , @John Derbyshire
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gorilla_Hunters
  5. I smell market opportunity: 23 & Galilee. And later, a sect called the Black Eurasianites arises, running around hacking up folks in their homes and places of worship, and demanding cessation of cultural appropriation, plus reparations. Oh, and an all-expenses-paid right of return. Every social trend has its clusterfeck division.

    • Replies: @Sue D. Nim
    A black girl in Londonistan was murdered by Shohfah-El Israel, the pastor of her church.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-49238518

    The Church is the Israel United in Christ Church.

    They believe the 12 tribes of Israel are in North, Central and South America:

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/iuic-prod-ws-repo/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/25092423/12-Tribes-Chart.jpg
  6. @Anon
    We need a new Sea Peoples, shipborne pirates and terrorists who can invade every coastal nation on earth at will and raise 666, a liquid ISIS. They could start by taking over remote islands. Tristan De Cunha? In the US Catalina Island would be a good place to start the second phase. Tie the inhabitants to ship masts, set them on fire, and send them floating towards Venice to terrify Mickey Kaus and Conor Friedersdorf. Drone footage on the news. Life needs to be more interesting, and missions to Mars won't suffice.

    Don’t we need nano-technology first? And antimatter capsules.

    Make Washington a gigaton moonscape surrounded by people-harvesting grey goo again!

  7. @TelfoedJohn
    Is this the same wandering tribe that merged with the Khoisan? The dates seem to match.

    https://m.phys.org/news/2014-02-western-eurasian-genes-southern-african.html

    The ruins of Zimbabwe sure look Mediterranean-megalithic (especially the zigzag frieze).

    I can only imagine the Afrocentrists giving thanks for the Bantu expansion killing off most relic populations 😛

    • Replies: @Jake
    The Zimbabwean ruins, which are absolutely unique in sub-Saharan Africa, also appear to have correspondences with certain building styles in India from the same era.

    As you note, just as West African Bantus moving east and then south exterminated millions of pygmies and bushmen, they also may have exterminated peoples living in East Africa who were a mix of non-Bantu black African and Caucasian.
  8. Eric Cline is really fun on this topic of collapse. His theory is it was a system collapse caused by what we would call the Trojan war. There was a Troy, and there was war, and it fits with several of the elements of the oral tradition-turned literary masterpiece of the Iliad and the Oydssey.

    The late Bronze Age was a highly complex globally connected trade world, with everyone dependent on each other for their economic vitality. War leading to sinking of trade ships, destruction of cities, collapse of trade routes, and then collapse of the ability to make bronze and afford a treasury, while using up all there was for weapons of war led to isolation and perhaps various famines that then led to more migrations and war as young men went to go conquesting

    The Iliad lists ship after ship from kingdom after kingdom of what we’d call the Mycenaeans, which were one at the same as the Minoans/cretans, going to war with Troy. They were the aggressors. The stories of the Iliad tell of all of the productive men of the Mycenaean period being at war for a decade. No one home building, farming, constructing.

    The Sea peoples as the Egyptian Pharaoh called them seem to have been waves of men consistent with the islands of Mycenaeans, as listed in the Iliad.

    The Odyssey tells of the Mycenaeans leaving after their destruction of Troy and going yo fight Ehyot, losing, and then a raping and pillaging at another island and then getting killed for it which is what sets off the ten years of Odysseus’ bad luck. This too is consistent with Pharaoh’s beating of them.

    In all, the Iliad and Odyssey seem to be stories telling of the folly of aggressive conquest war leading to the total collapse of your civilization and all surrounding ones. Not unlike WW1…

    But the myths from the early Minoan culture tell of a great deal of intermarriage between peoples in Egypt and Ethiopia and the Minoans/Mycenaeans. The artifacts found in Knossos are consistent with such trade, too. It could be older than the late Bronze age.

    • Replies: @Yawrate
    Julian Jaynes posits that the bronze age collapse was a result of a number of factors including disaster, evolution of human consciousness, and growing human populations.

    Jaynes, a psychologist of human consciousness based out of Harvard, developed a theory that before about 4000 BCE humans were what we would call schizophrenic. One half of the brain more or less functioned on a subconscious level. The other half gave commands when subconscious behavior patterns were unable to deal with confusing or novel situations. This developed in the Greek world as gods commanding humans to action.

    But you can only get so far with the leadership of the gods. Disasters causing forced migrations and large populations that were unable to act cohesively because of their size caused a new development in human evolution: conscious thought.

    Jaynes makes a compelling case in his book the Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.
  9. Judaism and Christianity figure very heavily in Ethiopian culture today. I wonder how far back that goes? Does anyone know anything about what Ethiopians believed 2500 or 3000 years ago? Were they a part of the Old Testament cultural sphere at the time the OT was being written, or did they retcon Solomon and everything in later, and if so when?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Wiki has Christians in Ethiopia in Roman times, and its distortion is from Muslim domination, not retconning.
  10. @Bardon Kaldian
    As I was taught in school, Sea Peoples were some variants of Indo-Europeans.

    All Mysterious Peoples are IE, aren’t they?

    But now we have genomes and stuff.

    • Replies: @kevhin
    unironically yes even the ones who conquered the first proto empire the akkadian empire were the gutians and indo european tribe related to tocharians and described and blonde haired.

    or the ones who displaced semites from the levant forcing them to travel as refugees to egypt around 1700(yes jews) were hittite related groups ,we have dna all over the levant with r1b samples at that time.
    then 100 years later a new wave of a confederation composed mayoritarily of semites and leaded by indo europeans would conquer egypt(hyksos).

    at the end of the bronze age is not aryans vs the but aryans vs aryans since nearly all eurasia was under aryan control

  11. A 2019 article (“Ancient DNA sheds light on the genetic origins of early Iron Age Philistines” —> https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/7/eaax0061) showed a definitive European link to the earliest settlers of the Sea Peoples to the Levant, based on testing of remains from those times. However, testing of remains subsequent to the early settlers showed it washed out, inferring that they left no lasting genetic impact and were largely absorbed by the native Levantine inhabitants. The Sea Peoples were not a huge enough of a human migratory wave to leave their genes persistently anywhere in the Near East or Northern/Eastern Africa. The West Eurasian genetic signature in modern day Ethiopians is likely much older than the Bronze Age, but may share genetic overlaps with the same Near Eastern West Eurasians that brought agriculture to Europe during the late Mesolithic. My two cents on the issue.

  12. could be regression to the mean, but doubtful. more like seaside peoples, not seafaring.

  13. sidebar: i was watching a modern russian series/The Sniffer.. the Rus made distinction for group of ‘Caucasians’…. i was wondering what the deal was? is that like a regional and/or cultural distinction, such as someone in the US being a Yankee or Southerner?

    thx.

    • Replies: @Jake
    That is a reference to the Caucasus region between the Black and Caspian Seas, and to the peoples living there. 'Caucasian' languages are not part of the Indo-European family (Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Persian, Slavic, Celtic, Germanic, etc.). But Caucasian peoples are racially white and therefore Caucasian.
  14. @carol
    All Mysterious Peoples are IE, aren't they?

    But now we have genomes and stuff.

    unironically yes even the ones who conquered the first proto empire the akkadian empire were the gutians and indo european tribe related to tocharians and described and blonde haired.

    or the ones who displaced semites from the levant forcing them to travel as refugees to egypt around 1700(yes jews) were hittite related groups ,we have dna all over the levant with r1b samples at that time.
    then 100 years later a new wave of a confederation composed mayoritarily of semites and leaded by indo europeans would conquer egypt(hyksos).

    at the end of the bronze age is not aryans vs the but aryans vs aryans since nearly all eurasia was under aryan control

  15. An Ethiopian space program? Well, the country was once Abyss-inia, wasn’t it?

    A challenge to design flags for the moons of the solar system inspired one for Jupiter’s Amalthea. It was derived from Ethiopia’s.

    I like the host’s commentary. If the timestamp doesn’t work, it’s at 6:25:

    Immediately preceding that is a flag for Dactyl, a satellite of asteroid 243 Ida.

    Ida no idea asteroids had moons.

  16. Samson?

    Heard he averaged a double-double with the ‘38 Oshkosh All-Stars.

  17. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    Minor quibble: It’s not from “Nature” but rather from “Scientific Reports”. Nature is trying to capitalize on the brand name and has now created over 50 of various “Nature Blah-blah” journals. I think that “Scientific Reports” is in the same category and was originally called “Nature Scientific Reports”. Right now it’s a joke of a journal with bad quality controls and is not particularly selective.

    The Sea People were brought up in the paper spice it up only. The actual result is pretty straightforward and not particularly surprising considering geography of the region: The non-African component of Amhara is not significantly different from past and present populations in Levant. Everything else in the paper is not new and was reported before.

  18. @nokangaroos
    The ruins of Zimbabwe sure look Mediterranean-megalithic (especially the zigzag frieze).

    I can only imagine the Afrocentrists giving thanks for the Bantu expansion killing off most relic populations :P

    The Zimbabwean ruins, which are absolutely unique in sub-Saharan Africa, also appear to have correspondences with certain building styles in India from the same era.

    As you note, just as West African Bantus moving east and then south exterminated millions of pygmies and bushmen, they also may have exterminated peoples living in East Africa who were a mix of non-Bantu black African and Caucasian.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    The feature which catches my eye is this 'flat arch' obviously reconstructed since it uses timber to support loose stonework over a sizable opening. Do you (or anyone) know the basis for this particular reconstruction? No megaliths apparently. Mastery of the arch (much like the wheel) seems so obvious to us, yet it eluded certain civilizations.

    https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/19/d4/7a/97/great-zimbabwe-ruins.jpg
  19. I thought it’s been known for years that the Amhara and the Oromo are about 40% “West Asian.”

    Bonnie Holcomb, a pro-Oromo Ethiopia scholar, doesn’t think Ethiopia is a real country at all. She thinks it’s a Amhara European-created empire propped up by force of arms.

    Emperor Menelik is reputed to have said, “I am not a Negro. I am a Caucasian.”

    http://addisstandard.com/opinion-menelik-ii-really-say-caucasian/

    Peter Ustinov was 1/16th Oromo.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Peter Ustinov was 1/16th Oromo.
     
    Ah yes. Peter Ustinov:


    “Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.”

     

  20. @kikz
    sidebar: i was watching a modern russian series/The Sniffer.. the Rus made distinction for group of 'Caucasians'.... i was wondering what the deal was? is that like a regional and/or cultural distinction, such as someone in the US being a Yankee or Southerner?

    thx.

    That is a reference to the Caucasus region between the Black and Caspian Seas, and to the peoples living there. ‘Caucasian’ languages are not part of the Indo-European family (Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Persian, Slavic, Celtic, Germanic, etc.). But Caucasian peoples are racially white and therefore Caucasian.

  21. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    I smell market opportunity: 23 & Galilee. And later, a sect called the Black Eurasianites arises, running around hacking up folks in their homes and places of worship, and demanding cessation of cultural appropriation, plus reparations. Oh, and an all-expenses-paid right of return. Every social trend has its clusterfeck division.

    A black girl in Londonistan was murdered by Shohfah-El Israel, the pastor of her church.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-49238518

    The Church is the Israel United in Christ Church.

    They believe the 12 tribes of Israel are in North, Central and South America:

  22. @Anon
    We need a new Sea Peoples, shipborne pirates and terrorists who can invade every coastal nation on earth at will and raise 666, a liquid ISIS. They could start by taking over remote islands. Tristan De Cunha? In the US Catalina Island would be a good place to start the second phase. Tie the inhabitants to ship masts, set them on fire, and send them floating towards Venice to terrify Mickey Kaus and Conor Friedersdorf. Drone footage on the news. Life needs to be more interesting, and missions to Mars won't suffice.

    We need a new Sea Peoples, shipborne pirates and terrorists who can invade every coastal nation on earth at will.

    Is that you BAP?

    • LOL: Romanian
  23. No shout-out to Chomsky, who introduced me to “the greatest material prize in world history” as a concept and fact?

  24. One lamentable thing about many of these ancient DNA investigations is that they completely omit to tell us about what happened with Y-DNA vs. mtDNA, which if they would consider it, would shed enormous light on who was doing vs. who was getting done to, or, in other words, the most ancient and fundamental who-whom there is.

    Without this information, these eminent scientists are reduced to a lot of vague hand-wavy speculations:

    “the shuffling role played by a horde of nomads”

    Lol. Talk about a euphemism.

    “A pulse of populations with Anatolian-rich ancestry”

    Whoa, gettin’ a little graphic there!

    “our results should not be interpreted as involving a direct connection or descent line”

    Indeed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    “our results should not be interpreted as involving a direct connection or descent line”
     
    What does this even mean?
  25. @Steve Sailer
    I call it the King Solomon's Mines era after the 1885 bestseller that was the first English language adventure novel set in Africa.

    It would certainly make a great H Rider Haggard story – adventurous Europeans cross the dark continent from the Horn to the Cape making love to the local women, before both the Euros and natives are slaughtered by the vanguard of the Bantu expansion. I don’t think it quite fits the current political climate.

  26. @Almost Missouri
    One lamentable thing about many of these ancient DNA investigations is that they completely omit to tell us about what happened with Y-DNA vs. mtDNA, which if they would consider it, would shed enormous light on who was doing vs. who was getting done to, or, in other words, the most ancient and fundamental who-whom there is.

    Without this information, these eminent scientists are reduced to a lot of vague hand-wavy speculations:

    "the shuffling role played by a horde of nomads"
     
    Lol. Talk about a euphemism.

    "A pulse of populations with Anatolian-rich ancestry"
     
    Whoa, gettin' a little graphic there!

    "our results should not be interpreted as involving a direct connection or descent line"
     
    Indeed.

    “our results should not be interpreted as involving a direct connection or descent line”

    What does this even mean?

  27. Interesting to read of Ethiopians being added to the diverse Sea People speculation. Weren’t the Sea Peoples simply a group of pirate federations who were the scourge of the eastern Med during that time? Aren’t pirates always the adventurous sea-going scum of the earth? Not surprising, I guess, to hear that Ethiopians may have been part of the mix. I believe there’s a saint known as Moses the Ethiopian who was sort of a land-going pirate, the Jesse James of his time.

  28. @Steve Sailer
    I call it the King Solomon's Mines era after the 1885 bestseller that was the first English language adventure novel set in Africa.
    • Thanks: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Jack Martin, Ralph Rover, and Peterkin Gay
     
    Sounds like Tom Wolfe consulted the ghost of Charles Dickens to name the protagonists in his next novel.
  29. @jb
    Judaism and Christianity figure very heavily in Ethiopian culture today. I wonder how far back that goes? Does anyone know anything about what Ethiopians believed 2500 or 3000 years ago? Were they a part of the Old Testament cultural sphere at the time the OT was being written, or did they retcon Solomon and everything in later, and if so when?

    Wiki has Christians in Ethiopia in Roman times, and its distortion is from Muslim domination, not retconning.

    • Replies: @jb
    Wiki puts the date for Christianity around 330 AD, which seems perfectly reasonable. What I'm wondering about is pre-Christian Judaic influence. I'm wondering whether Ethiopia was entirely pagan before Christianity came along, and King Solomon et al. got retconned in then, or whether Ethiopia was actually part of some extended Judaic cultural sphere of influence before that (which would give it a greater claim to an Old Testament past).
  30. @John Derbyshire
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gorilla_Hunters

    Jack Martin, Ralph Rover, and Peterkin Gay

    Sounds like Tom Wolfe consulted the ghost of Charles Dickens to name the protagonists in his next novel.

  31. The Sea People were Atlanteans but “respuhtable he-story” means you can’t say that or else you’re instantly dubbed a crank by the same people who insist there was a secret utopian matriarchal society that men conspired to destroy all historical records of.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUlQAfJuXE
  32. More likely Sea Monkeys. Amirite?

  33. Ethiopians are Orthodox Christians since Cthulhu’s childhood if not earlier.

    That alone make me root for them much more than for their neighbors. It’s not inconceivable that within a couple of generations Ethiopia will become an actual “best ally” in the region, as opposed to certain fellow white people.

  34. @Jake
    The Zimbabwean ruins, which are absolutely unique in sub-Saharan Africa, also appear to have correspondences with certain building styles in India from the same era.

    As you note, just as West African Bantus moving east and then south exterminated millions of pygmies and bushmen, they also may have exterminated peoples living in East Africa who were a mix of non-Bantu black African and Caucasian.

    The feature which catches my eye is this ‘flat arch’ obviously reconstructed since it uses timber to support loose stonework over a sizable opening. Do you (or anyone) know the basis for this particular reconstruction? No megaliths apparently. Mastery of the arch (much like the wheel) seems so obvious to us, yet it eluded certain civilizations.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    They both suffer from a lack of natural analogues. Though you'll find more natural arches than wheels, the arch is perhaps even more counterintuitive so it evens out.
    , @Cortes
    The lack of readily available materials for making mortar/cement/concrete in volume may have been a factor.

    Or maybe the building of drystane structures was to provide habitat for the bees and other creatures...
  35. @Jane Plain
    I thought it's been known for years that the Amhara and the Oromo are about 40% "West Asian."

    Bonnie Holcomb, a pro-Oromo Ethiopia scholar, doesn't think Ethiopia is a real country at all. She thinks it's a Amhara European-created empire propped up by force of arms.

    Emperor Menelik is reputed to have said, "I am not a Negro. I am a Caucasian."

    http://addisstandard.com/opinion-menelik-ii-really-say-caucasian/

    Peter Ustinov was 1/16th Oromo.

    Peter Ustinov was 1/16th Oromo.

    Ah yes. Peter Ustinov:

    “Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.”

  36. If you are really interested in this subject read this http://www.razib.com/wordpress/category/ethiopia/

  37. @Anon
    We need a new Sea Peoples, shipborne pirates and terrorists who can invade every coastal nation on earth at will and raise 666, a liquid ISIS. They could start by taking over remote islands. Tristan De Cunha? In the US Catalina Island would be a good place to start the second phase. Tie the inhabitants to ship masts, set them on fire, and send them floating towards Venice to terrify Mickey Kaus and Conor Friedersdorf. Drone footage on the news. Life needs to be more interesting, and missions to Mars won't suffice.

    Hmm, if this is what we have to go by, (((our benefactors))) are doing just via mass importation of Somalis

  38. @Mr McKenna
    The feature which catches my eye is this 'flat arch' obviously reconstructed since it uses timber to support loose stonework over a sizable opening. Do you (or anyone) know the basis for this particular reconstruction? No megaliths apparently. Mastery of the arch (much like the wheel) seems so obvious to us, yet it eluded certain civilizations.

    https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/19/d4/7a/97/great-zimbabwe-ruins.jpg

    They both suffer from a lack of natural analogues. Though you’ll find more natural arches than wheels, the arch is perhaps even more counterintuitive so it evens out.

  39. I thought I had read or heard somewhere that Goliath (from the Bible) was maybe a Sea People (Sea Person? Sea Person-American?).

    • Replies: @Kirt
    Given his size, Goliath was probably one of the "sons of Anak" or "descendents of the giants" who were driven from the hills by the ancient Israelites down onto the plain of Gaza, where they were enlisted in the armies of the Philistines, a branch of the Sea Peoples. At least several of these giants fought in the Philistine armies and were killed by the "mighty men" of King David. Goliath might even be a term for this type of fighter rather than a proper name. Note that giantism has a lot of bad side effects and that giants are not very good fighters. That helps explain why there are not enough of them around today to constitute a separate race. The genetics do pop up now and then in individuals, most of whom have abbreviated life spans compared to the general population.
  40. @J.Ross
    Wiki has Christians in Ethiopia in Roman times, and its distortion is from Muslim domination, not retconning.

    Wiki puts the date for Christianity around 330 AD, which seems perfectly reasonable. What I’m wondering about is pre-Christian Judaic influence. I’m wondering whether Ethiopia was entirely pagan before Christianity came along, and King Solomon et al. got retconned in then, or whether Ethiopia was actually part of some extended Judaic cultural sphere of influence before that (which would give it a greater claim to an Old Testament past).

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I'm surprised that some MacDonald hasn't theorized that it was ancient Hebraic influence (Joseph, Daniel, Esther, et. al.) that weakened the local kingdoms to such an extent that they were vulnerable to the depredations of the otherwise unremarkable Sea Peoples.
  41. The answer is no. The Sea Peoples settled on the Mediterranean Littoral. Like Gaza fer instance.

  42. @Jack Henson
    The Sea People were Atlanteans but "respuhtable he-story" means you can't say that or else you're instantly dubbed a crank by the same people who insist there was a secret utopian matriarchal society that men conspired to destroy all historical records of.

  43. @jb
    Wiki puts the date for Christianity around 330 AD, which seems perfectly reasonable. What I'm wondering about is pre-Christian Judaic influence. I'm wondering whether Ethiopia was entirely pagan before Christianity came along, and King Solomon et al. got retconned in then, or whether Ethiopia was actually part of some extended Judaic cultural sphere of influence before that (which would give it a greater claim to an Old Testament past).

    I’m surprised that some MacDonald hasn’t theorized that it was ancient Hebraic influence (Joseph, Daniel, Esther, et. al.) that weakened the local kingdoms to such an extent that they were vulnerable to the depredations of the otherwise unremarkable Sea Peoples.

  44. The Ethiopians can be descended from the Queen of Sheba or the Sea People or whatever they want to believe but need to kept out of European lands lest they cause our civilization to collapse back into the bronze age.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    If we must accept any Africans, the higher level Ethiopeans are about the best we could hope to get. Also the thing feared is a long collapse that never properly goes anywhere. Revitalizing Bronze Age savagery on the other hand is just what the doctor ordered.
  45. @anonymous
    The Ethiopians can be descended from the Queen of Sheba or the Sea People or whatever they want to believe but need to kept out of European lands lest they cause our civilization to collapse back into the bronze age.

    If we must accept any Africans, the higher level Ethiopeans are about the best we could hope to get. Also the thing feared is a long collapse that never properly goes anywhere. Revitalizing Bronze Age savagery on the other hand is just what the doctor ordered.

  46. A UC Berkeley archaeology professor with whom I had an extended conversation with a few years back while dining with him was very forthright in his answer when I asked him about the origins of the infamous “Sea Peoples.”

    He is a well published guy who has done a lot of field work in Israel and elsewhere. His answer was definitive: “they came from Sicily.”

    He further explained that at that time (roughly 1350 BC) Sicily was inhabited by a number of tribes from further up the Adriatic who migrated there and were excellent sailors and evidently fierce warriors. So he believed they were “Balkan” in origin at some stage. Later left Sicily for a bit of looting and invading.

    Don’t know if he is correct but he’s the expert, not me. Otherwise there seems little actual evidence of the origins of these feared “pirates” and sea invaders. Could have gotten to Ethiopia via the Nile or perhaps the Red Sea (after some overland travel). Genetic histories tend to support the view that it can be done (human breeding) it will happen. Any port in a storm…

    • Replies: @Lot
    They destroyed bronze age Greece first and then moved SE, so southern Italy is the most logical guess.
  47. @Mr McKenna
    The feature which catches my eye is this 'flat arch' obviously reconstructed since it uses timber to support loose stonework over a sizable opening. Do you (or anyone) know the basis for this particular reconstruction? No megaliths apparently. Mastery of the arch (much like the wheel) seems so obvious to us, yet it eluded certain civilizations.

    https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/19/d4/7a/97/great-zimbabwe-ruins.jpg

    The lack of readily available materials for making mortar/cement/concrete in volume may have been a factor.

    Or maybe the building of drystane structures was to provide habitat for the bees and other creatures…

  48. @Muggles
    A UC Berkeley archaeology professor with whom I had an extended conversation with a few years back while dining with him was very forthright in his answer when I asked him about the origins of the infamous "Sea Peoples."

    He is a well published guy who has done a lot of field work in Israel and elsewhere. His answer was definitive: "they came from Sicily."

    He further explained that at that time (roughly 1350 BC) Sicily was inhabited by a number of tribes from further up the Adriatic who migrated there and were excellent sailors and evidently fierce warriors. So he believed they were "Balkan" in origin at some stage. Later left Sicily for a bit of looting and invading.

    Don't know if he is correct but he's the expert, not me. Otherwise there seems little actual evidence of the origins of these feared "pirates" and sea invaders. Could have gotten to Ethiopia via the Nile or perhaps the Red Sea (after some overland travel). Genetic histories tend to support the view that it can be done (human breeding) it will happen. Any port in a storm...

    They destroyed bronze age Greece first and then moved SE, so southern Italy is the most logical guess.

  49. @Bannon
    I thought I had read or heard somewhere that Goliath (from the Bible) was maybe a Sea People (Sea Person? Sea Person-American?).

    Given his size, Goliath was probably one of the “sons of Anak” or “descendents of the giants” who were driven from the hills by the ancient Israelites down onto the plain of Gaza, where they were enlisted in the armies of the Philistines, a branch of the Sea Peoples. At least several of these giants fought in the Philistine armies and were killed by the “mighty men” of King David. Goliath might even be a term for this type of fighter rather than a proper name. Note that giantism has a lot of bad side effects and that giants are not very good fighters. That helps explain why there are not enough of them around today to constitute a separate race. The genetics do pop up now and then in individuals, most of whom have abbreviated life spans compared to the general population.

  50. @Alice
    Eric Cline is really fun on this topic of collapse. His theory is it was a system collapse caused by what we would call the Trojan war. There was a Troy, and there was war, and it fits with several of the elements of the oral tradition-turned literary masterpiece of the Iliad and the Oydssey.

    The late Bronze Age was a highly complex globally connected trade world, with everyone dependent on each other for their economic vitality. War leading to sinking of trade ships, destruction of cities, collapse of trade routes, and then collapse of the ability to make bronze and afford a treasury, while using up all there was for weapons of war led to isolation and perhaps various famines that then led to more migrations and war as young men went to go conquesting

    The Iliad lists ship after ship from kingdom after kingdom of what we'd call the Mycenaeans, which were one at the same as the Minoans/cretans, going to war with Troy. They were the aggressors. The stories of the Iliad tell of all of the productive men of the Mycenaean period being at war for a decade. No one home building, farming, constructing.

    The Sea peoples as the Egyptian Pharaoh called them seem to have been waves of men consistent with the islands of Mycenaeans, as listed in the Iliad.

    The Odyssey tells of the Mycenaeans leaving after their destruction of Troy and going yo fight Ehyot, losing, and then a raping and pillaging at another island and then getting killed for it which is what sets off the ten years of Odysseus' bad luck. This too is consistent with Pharaoh's beating of them.

    In all, the Iliad and Odyssey seem to be stories telling of the folly of aggressive conquest war leading to the total collapse of your civilization and all surrounding ones. Not unlike WW1...

    But the myths from the early Minoan culture tell of a great deal of intermarriage between peoples in Egypt and Ethiopia and the Minoans/Mycenaeans. The artifacts found in Knossos are consistent with such trade, too. It could be older than the late Bronze age.

    Julian Jaynes posits that the bronze age collapse was a result of a number of factors including disaster, evolution of human consciousness, and growing human populations.

    Jaynes, a psychologist of human consciousness based out of Harvard, developed a theory that before about 4000 BCE humans were what we would call schizophrenic. One half of the brain more or less functioned on a subconscious level. The other half gave commands when subconscious behavior patterns were unable to deal with confusing or novel situations. This developed in the Greek world as gods commanding humans to action.

    But you can only get so far with the leadership of the gods. Disasters causing forced migrations and large populations that were unable to act cohesively because of their size caused a new development in human evolution: conscious thought.

    Jaynes makes a compelling case in his book the Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I'm pretty sure the Coen Brothers chose the name Roderick Jaynes for their bicameral-brained editor (themselves) as a tribute to Julian Jaynes. Ethan Coen majored in philosophy at Princeton while Julian Jaynes was teaching there and his famous book came out.
  51. @Bardon Kaldian
    As I was taught in school, Sea Peoples were some variants of Indo-Europeans.

    I re read the wiki article about the Sea Peoples….found it interesting that theres so much skepticism “since the early 1990s….”

    I don’t understand why an early Anatolian invasion of Egypt is so jard to swallow….

  52. @Yawrate
    Julian Jaynes posits that the bronze age collapse was a result of a number of factors including disaster, evolution of human consciousness, and growing human populations.

    Jaynes, a psychologist of human consciousness based out of Harvard, developed a theory that before about 4000 BCE humans were what we would call schizophrenic. One half of the brain more or less functioned on a subconscious level. The other half gave commands when subconscious behavior patterns were unable to deal with confusing or novel situations. This developed in the Greek world as gods commanding humans to action.

    But you can only get so far with the leadership of the gods. Disasters causing forced migrations and large populations that were unable to act cohesively because of their size caused a new development in human evolution: conscious thought.

    Jaynes makes a compelling case in his book the Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.

    I’m pretty sure the Coen Brothers chose the name Roderick Jaynes for their bicameral-brained editor (themselves) as a tribute to Julian Jaynes. Ethan Coen majored in philosophy at Princeton while Julian Jaynes was teaching there and his famous book came out.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS