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Are Blacks Really 3.5x Worse Drivers Than Whites?
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Are blacks really 3.5 times more likely than whites to have to go to the Emergency Room for motor vehicle crashes (including pedestrians being hit)? Are Hispanics 12% less likely to win up in the ER for car accidents? A couple of generations ago, Latinos were notoriously bad drivers. Have they really improved that much?

This graph is from a new CDC report:

Emergency Department Visit Rates for Motor Vehicle Crashes by Selected Characteristics: United States, 2017–2018

Danielle Davis, M.P.H., and Christopher Cairns, M.P.H.

Data from the National Hospital Ambulatory Medical Care Survey

Key findings:

● In 2017–2018, the overall emergency department (ED) visit rate for motor vehicle crash injuries was 5.3 visits per 1,000 persons.

● The ED visit rate was highest among patients aged 15–24 (9.1) and then declined with age.

● The ED visit rate for non-Hispanic black patients (15.2) was higher than for non-Hispanic white (4.3) and Hispanic (3.8) patients.

● ED visit rates for patients who had Medicaid, no insurance, or workers’ compensation insurance as their primary expected source of payment were higher than for patients who had private insurance or Medicare.

● The ED visit rate for motor vehicle crash injuries at hospitals located in the South (6.8 visits per 1,000 persons) was higher than for rates at hospitals in all other census regions of the United States.

In 2017–2018, an average of 3.4 million emergency department (ED) visits
for motor vehicle crash injuries occurred annually.

Okay, so if there 330 million residents in the US, that’s 1 vehicle crash emergency room visit per 100 residents per year or a little over 10 per 1000. But the summary talking points above say 5.3 per 1000 or half what the body text says.

Most persons injured or killed in motor vehicle crashes are occupants (3). Medical care costs and productivity losses associated with crash injuries and deaths exceeded $75 billion in 2017. …

Car crashes are bad.

● The overall ED visit rate for non-Hispanic black patients (15.2 visits per 1,000 persons) was
higher than the visit rate for non-Hispanic white (4.3) and Hispanic (3.8) patients.

● The ED visit rate for non-Hispanic black patients was higher than the visit rate for
non-Hispanic white and Hispanic patients in all age groups, particularly among patients
aged 25–44 (24.6 among non-Hispanic black patients compared with 5.7 among
non-Hispanic white and 4.2 among Hispanic patients).

● For persons aged 15–24, the ED visit rate for non-Hispanic white patients (9.2) was higher
than the visit rate for Hispanic patients (5.1).

Recently, my Taki’s Magazine column pointed out that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration latest reported on traffic fatalities reported that black road deaths were a remarkable 36% higher during the Racial Reckoning (the last seven months of 2020) versus the same time time period in 2019: we can call this the Racial Wreckening.

But, in general, blacks don’t seem to get killed in car crashes 3.5 times as much as whites do. I pointed out:

Note that blacks are not terrible drivers. While blacks [at 1/8th of the U.S. population] were 55.9 percent of known murder offenders in 2019’s FBI crime statistics and 53.2 of homicide victims, they were a much more reasonable 16.9 percent of traffic deaths in 2019. So, blacks are somewhat more likely to be killed in car crashes, but the proportion is nowhere near as absurd as with murder. If blacks could get their share of America’s murders down to 16.9 percent, this country would be a racial utopia.

(Two methodological asides: While we can usually distinguish between perpetrator and victim in homicides, although they don’t differ much racially, guilt is murkier in traffic statistics. Also, like most police reports, the car-crash statistics don’t do a good job of distinguishing between whites and Hispanics, so in my graph I simply lumped the rest of the U.S. population together into “nonblacks.”)

But then the black share of road fatalities rose to 19.7 percent during the racial reckoning of June–December 2020: still not as awful as black gun violence, but moving in the wrong direction.

So, I’m not sure that I trust this new report. It could be that blacks do go to the hospital for car crashes a huge amount but don’t get killed all that much more, or at least not until George Floyd’s death liberated them to drive really, really bad.

More likely, this CDC report just isn’t that trustworthy for boring methodological reasons. Looking at the fine print, I see:

NOTES: Based on a sample of 917 emergency department (ED) visits for motor vehicle crashes, representing an annual average of 3.4 million ED visits.

A sample size of 917 incidents isn’t tiny, but it’s not big. (A typical Presidential election poll uses perhaps 1,400 respondents.) Dividing the sample into 3 races (plus miscellaneous) times 4 age groups stresses reliability further. And there’s the big question of how nationally representative this sample is.

Injured persons included motor vehicle occupants, motorcyclists, pedal cyclists, and pedestrians.

By the way, the Daily Mail article misinterpreted the fine print in this report, claiming, “Race was only known for 17 percent of patients and ethnicity was only known for 19 percent of patients.” No, the DM got it backwards:

Overall for 2017 and 2018, race data were missing for 17.1% and ethnicity data were missing for 19.2% of ED visits, and race was imputed for missing records.

Non-Hispanic other represents 3.1% of weighted visits. These visits are included in the total but not reported separately.

Anyway, the fact that I dug up a couple of weeks ago, that black road deaths were up 36% during the Racial Reckoning compared to 9% for everybody else is one of the more striking statistics from a year, 2020, full of unexpected numbers.

 
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  1. Ghetto Driver Lottery? How many think they’ll be able to win a big lawsuit, since every accident victim now gets flooded with flyers from law firms?

    • Agree: fish
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Redneck farmer


    Ghetto Driver Lottery
     
    Yeah, Crash for Cash is what immediately occurred to me, but Steve's probably right that it might just be sample size.

    Another possibility is that blacks' increased proclivity for violence, antisocial behavior, and criminality might lead the right tail to forgo the horn in situations where their honor is dissed and use their vehicles in a menacing matter, which occasionally results in crashes. Data on sex and age would help: Is the younger male proportion greater relative to black women compared to a similar ratio from the whites in the study?
    , @william munny
    @Redneck farmer

    That is what I was thinking too. Out of numerous times I saw this in action, the one that stands out was when a hunk of sheetrock fell from the ceiling in a public building and hit a young black woman on the shoulder. An officer saw it happen and attended to her, and she said she was fine and did not want medical care because she was not hurt and just wanted to go on her way. A small crowd swarmed her and told her she was stupid and crazy. They were visibly angry at her for passing up on the opportunity. Another guy claimed he got hit too, and the officer who was there laughed at him. He said he was suing anyway and asked the crowd if they saw it hit him, and they agreed.

    Many people do this, but I would be that some groups do it more than others.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Redneck farmer

    Agreed. Along with what Anon and Mr. Munny replied with, yeah, it's the city bus crash factor. The city bus rams into a vehicle that made a bad move in the intersection at about 20 mph. It turns out that 35 people were on the bus and need to be "made whole", while I could have sworn that there were only a dozen people on it, when saw it go by.

    I had to go to a deposition one time because I and a friend saw an 84 y/o black guy get run over. (He died a couple hours later at the hospital.) This was a one-way street, and the man walked out between parked cars with all traffic coming from his right.* It was pretty obviously not the driver's fault, but the black family wanted that golden ticket.

    .

    * It could have happened to lots of people, though, not just an 84 y/o, as it's easy to screw up as a pedestrian crossing a one-way street.

    Replies: @Skyler the Weird, @AndrewR

    , @BRK
    @Redneck farmer

    Everyone hates going to the ER, except those who are in really bad shape, which is a good sort of self-triage. After an accident, you’re going to be waiting around for hours just for the ER doctor to give you some Tylenol, maybe run some x-rays to confirm you didn’t break any bones, and tell you to go for some physiotherapy.

    But if you don’t go to the ER after an accident, the first thing the insurance lawyer is going to ask you is 1) Did you go to the hospital after the accident? 2) Why not? 3) So how serious could your injuries be?

    The intricacies of lawsuits tends to run within social circles and ethnic communities. If your cousin and neighbor have talked to you about their motor vehicle accident lawsuits, you’ll pick up on the ins-and-outs and might be more likely to go to the ER to paper the file.

    , @Anonymous
    @Redneck farmer

    Dont get @iSteve started about floods hurricanes etc....

    , @S. Anonyia
    @Redneck farmer

    I’ve twice had black drivers with beat-up cars intentionally try to get in a wreck with me on narrow city streets. It was so obvious it was some kind of scam. I just hit the brakes and started going 5 mph while searching for the nearest side street so their behavior would be noticed by other drivers and they’d have no choice but to keep going. In one incident, the women got angry when I stopped and yelled incomprehensibly for a few seconds before speeding away.

    Wonder how many people with lower situational awareness fall prey to this.

    , @GomezAdddams
    @Redneck farmer

    Blacks excel at basketball ---do OK in football and baseball---but are not so hot in professional wrestling----as for driving --chances are they take public transit to see the Clippers---


    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-06-19/NBA-on-Jun-18-Clippers-make-history-reaching-Western-Finals-11e00EZlrqw/index.html

  2. Blacks are genetically endowed with some benefits whites don’t have. Athletic ablity and UV resistant skin are a few. But what very few people know is that they also have a fantastic visual memory (as opposed to audio memory). As a result processsing takes longer. If you live in Africa, you will eventually come to realize that the speed they want to drive at under natural conditions, is 40kph.

    • Thanks: Desiderius
    • Troll: JohnPlywood
    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Johann Theron

    Another UNZian idiot who thinks up is down, and down is up. Blacks have inferior visual memory and visual spatial IQ as compared with whites, as demonstrated by multiple studies. There is no way higher visual intelligence would result in lowered driving ability or lowered "processing" time (quite the opposite, in fact).


    Before you write some cringeworthy face-saving response about how people can't appreciate your inferior humor, just throw your computer out the window and jump off the nearest bridge.

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Johann Theron

    Fascinating. Do you have experience living in Africa?

    , @Blankaerd
    @Johann Theron

    I would like to see some evidence that blacks have high visual memory. I do know of the Eskimos and the Aboriginals, but not of Sub-Saharan Africans.

    , @Anonymous
    @Johann Theron

    How good are they at mind’s eye (as distinct from magic eye illustrations)? I ask bc that’s a new hot one among HBD aspies. We’re falling behind Indiachina in the mind-eye gap, by 2050 Sherlock Holmes’s 1,000-room memory-mansion may no longer be functional for K-12

  3. While we can usually distinguish between perpetrator and victim in homicides, although they don’t differ much racially, guilt is murkier in traffic statistics.

    Murkier? The data shown doesn’t even attempt to distinguish between perpetrator and victim. If a reckless 20 year old T-bones a 70 year old, who is more likely to be going to the ED?

    Unless you restrict the data to single-vehicle accidents, I don’t think attempting to make conclusions about what group are the worst drivers simply from ED visits will lead to accurate results (some trends may still stand out, but the ratios are likely to be skewed).

    BTW, when did “Emergency Department” replace “Emergency Room” as the place where people with serious injuries are treated?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Technite78

    Emergency rooms are now termed Trauma Centers, either Basic or Major.

    , @AndrewR
    @Technite78

    I worked in one from 2006 to 2008 and we always called it Department. We had multiple rooms so "Emergency Room" would not have been accurate.

  4. Thinking about who will avoid hospital after a car crash when they’re somewhat injured: people without medical insurance, especially those with seizable assets, people with greater stoicism/phlegmatism.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Simon in London

    Also people with outstanding warrants.

  5. The South is still less urbanized, so there’s more high speed driving on more dangerous two-lane roads, much of it in pickups. We also have more ice storms and wetter snow. But most blacks even down here have moved to towns, so they’re less likely to be killed.

    It would be interesting to see motorcycle and seatbelt usage by age and race and fatalities.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Ralph L

    Yeah, the US rural population proportion is surprisingly large for a First World country and overwhelmingly white. Rural driving = faster driving. Rural crashing = harder crashing. So nonblack crashes are more likely to be fatal, not for racial reasons, but for geographical reasons.


    But, in general, blacks don’t seem to get killed in car crashes 3.5 times as much as whites do. I pointed out:

    Note that blacks are not terrible drivers. While blacks [at 1/8th of the U.S. population] were 55.9 percent of known murder offenders in 2019’s FBI crime statistics and 53.2 of homicide victims, they were a much more reasonable 16.9 percent of traffic deaths in 2019.
     

     
    Maybe there's a Sailer's Law of Mass Crashing in there, but, as described, it probably just shows that proportionally more blacks are driving in the more vehicularly constrained urban environment than nonblacks are. Energy—and therefore lethality—of crash impacts varies as the square of velocity, so a 60 mph crash is four times more harmful than a 30 mph crash.

    If everyone were equally skilled drivers, we might expect whites to get killed at 3.5× the black rate, since they are likely to be (rural) driving about twice as fast. Instead the crash statistic appears the other way around.

    Replies: @Ben tillman

  6. Anon[965] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redneck farmer
    Ghetto Driver Lottery? How many think they'll be able to win a big lawsuit, since every accident victim now gets flooded with flyers from law firms?

    Replies: @Anon, @william munny, @Achmed E. Newman, @BRK, @Anonymous, @S. Anonyia, @GomezAdddams

    Ghetto Driver Lottery

    Yeah, Crash for Cash is what immediately occurred to me, but Steve’s probably right that it might just be sample size.

    Another possibility is that blacks’ increased proclivity for violence, antisocial behavior, and criminality might lead the right tail to forgo the horn in situations where their honor is dissed and use their vehicles in a menacing matter, which occasionally results in crashes. Data on sex and age would help: Is the younger male proportion greater relative to black women compared to a similar ratio from the whites in the study?

  7. @Redneck farmer
    Ghetto Driver Lottery? How many think they'll be able to win a big lawsuit, since every accident victim now gets flooded with flyers from law firms?

    Replies: @Anon, @william munny, @Achmed E. Newman, @BRK, @Anonymous, @S. Anonyia, @GomezAdddams

    That is what I was thinking too. Out of numerous times I saw this in action, the one that stands out was when a hunk of sheetrock fell from the ceiling in a public building and hit a young black woman on the shoulder. An officer saw it happen and attended to her, and she said she was fine and did not want medical care because she was not hurt and just wanted to go on her way. A small crowd swarmed her and told her she was stupid and crazy. They were visibly angry at her for passing up on the opportunity. Another guy claimed he got hit too, and the officer who was there laughed at him. He said he was suing anyway and asked the crowd if they saw it hit him, and they agreed.

    Many people do this, but I would be that some groups do it more than others.

    • Thanks: anonymouseperson
    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @william munny

    They're just like us

  8. ● ED visit rates for patients who had Medicaid, no insurance, or workers’ compensation insurance as their primary expected source of payment were higher than for patients who had private insurance or Medicare.

    Of course it is. Who are the people who have insurance at the lowest rates? That would be black people and even more so, Hispanics. Yet, Hispanics go to the ER in a slightly lower proportion than white people? I wonder about the separation of Hispanics from white people in this data too.

    My point is that, for anyone who has no insurance the ER IS the doctor most of the time. Is it clear that all the people with a “yes” in the survey came straight over there from the wreck in an ambulance?

    Oh, and to put it into perspective, $75 Billion is one average weeks’s worth of US Government spending… oops, that’s on a good year, not 2020.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Achmed E. Newman

    In related news COVID really cleaned out the ERs.

    , @Prof. Woland
    @Achmed E. Newman

    In California, I believe that the cops must come to the accident if there has been an injury or the damage is more than a certain amount (it used to be $500). It is also a law that everyone needs to have auto insurance. For the white guy who cares about how much his family pays per month he might be less inclined to have a claim, especially one with an ER visit that will be attributed to uninsured motorist coverage. For someone who is on Medi-Cal, not so much because it is the State that will pick up the tab. The odds are much better that the white guy cannot sue the black guy because you cannot get blood out of a turnip, particularly an uninsured one. If you are suing for (((whiplash))) the first thing you need to do is see the doctor and wear a neck brace.

    , @S. Anonyia
    @Achmed E. Newman

    A lot of Hispanics (mainly Mexicans) drive really slow. Easier to avoid an accident if you have more time to react.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

  9. Most emergency room visits following automobile accidents are, of course, for non life-threatening injuries.

    Blacks are less likely to have a primary care physician or clinic than Whites and perhaps for that reason are less likely to seek care for a non-life threatening injury in a primary care setting rather than in an emergency room. (Some primary care clinic buildings are open in the evening as urgent care centers.)

    Blacks (not all of whom- duh- work for the DMV) are probably more likely than Whites to have jobs with some physical demands. A real (or imagined) injury is more likely to interfere with meeting those demands than an office (or work-from-home) job. An emergency room visit made immediately after a car crash provides a quick way to get a doctor’s note for missing work.

    Hispanics are more likely than Whites to be illegal immigrants and are almost certainly less likely to have medical or automobile insurance. Emergency room visits are often covered by automobile insurance rather than by medical insurance through subrogation. An illegal immigrant Hispanic might be more likely than a White citizen to save money by paying cash up front at an urgent care clinic rather than forking out same for a more expensive emergency room visit. Yeah, ED’s write off a lot of bad debt from illegals, but it is reasonable to suppose that now and then they squeeze out a few bucks.

  10. @Ralph L
    The South is still less urbanized, so there's more high speed driving on more dangerous two-lane roads, much of it in pickups. We also have more ice storms and wetter snow. But most blacks even down here have moved to towns, so they're less likely to be killed.

    It would be interesting to see motorcycle and seatbelt usage by age and race and fatalities.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Yeah, the US rural population proportion is surprisingly large for a First World country and overwhelmingly white. Rural driving = faster driving. Rural crashing = harder crashing. So nonblack crashes are more likely to be fatal, not for racial reasons, but for geographical reasons.

    But, in general, blacks don’t seem to get killed in car crashes 3.5 times as much as whites do. I pointed out:

    Note that blacks are not terrible drivers. While blacks [at 1/8th of the U.S. population] were 55.9 percent of known murder offenders in 2019’s FBI crime statistics and 53.2 of homicide victims, they were a much more reasonable 16.9 percent of traffic deaths in 2019.

    Maybe there’s a Sailer’s Law of Mass Crashing in there, but, as described, it probably just shows that proportionally more blacks are driving in the more vehicularly constrained urban environment than nonblacks are. Energy—and therefore lethality—of crash impacts varies as the square of velocity, so a 60 mph crash is four times more harmful than a 30 mph crash.

    If everyone were equally skilled drivers, we might expect whites to get killed at 3.5× the black rate, since they are likely to be (rural) driving about twice as fast. Instead the crash statistic appears the other way around.

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
    @Almost Missouri

    Whites may be driving faster, and surely they are driving much more per capita.

  11. @Redneck farmer
    Ghetto Driver Lottery? How many think they'll be able to win a big lawsuit, since every accident victim now gets flooded with flyers from law firms?

    Replies: @Anon, @william munny, @Achmed E. Newman, @BRK, @Anonymous, @S. Anonyia, @GomezAdddams

    Agreed. Along with what Anon and Mr. Munny replied with, yeah, it’s the city bus crash factor. The city bus rams into a vehicle that made a bad move in the intersection at about 20 mph. It turns out that 35 people were on the bus and need to be “made whole”, while I could have sworn that there were only a dozen people on it, when saw it go by.

    I had to go to a deposition one time because I and a friend saw an 84 y/o black guy get run over. (He died a couple hours later at the hospital.) This was a one-way street, and the man walked out between parked cars with all traffic coming from his right.* It was pretty obviously not the driver’s fault, but the black family wanted that golden ticket.

    .

    * It could have happened to lots of people, though, not just an 84 y/o, as it’s easy to screw up as a pedestrian crossing a one-way street.

    • Replies: @Skyler the Weird
    @Achmed E. Newman

    There was an empty Charlotte City bus involved in a crash as it was out of service and headed back to the barn. About 20 people claimed to have been on the bus and sued for 'injuries'.

    Replies: @loren

    , @AndrewR
    @Achmed E. Newman

    When I was in London, England, all the intersections had signs telling people to look right first.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  12. that black road deaths were up 36% during the Racial Reckoning compared to 9% for everybody else

    GOOD

    • Agree: 3g4me
  13. I simply lumped the rest of the U.S. population together into “nonblacks.”

    Crimethink – that should have been nonBlacks.

  14. See Heather Mac Donald’s article on the Manhattan Institute’s study of speeding on New Jersey highways. Black drivers made up 25% of those exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph or more and 1/3 of those exceeding it by 25 mph or more. (The study was done to investigate complaints that New Jersey patrolmen stopped people for driving-while-black and discovered that the share of blacks among those stopped by patrolmen precisely matched the share of blacks in the population exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph).

    • Agree: Hangnail Hans
    • Thanks: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @Dnought
    @Art Deco

    1/3 of the drivers exceeding the speed limit by 25 MPH or more are Black? That percentage actually seems low to me. I am certainly not a slow driver on the Interstate, so when I see a vehicle flying by me in the passing lane, they are likely doing 90 or more. When I glance to my left as they pass, it seems about 75% are Black, sometimes in a late model Mercedes, Lexus, etc, indicating a fairly high level of affluence. And I am in upstate NY where the black proportion of the population is relatively low. But I guess things are different in Jersey.

    , @Anonymous
    @Art Deco


    See Heather Mac Donald’s article on the Manhattan Institute’s study of speeding on New Jersey highways. Black drivers made up 25% of those exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph or more and 1/3 of those exceeding it by 25 mph or more. (The study was done to investigate complaints that New Jersey patrolmen stopped people for driving-while-black and discovered that the share of blacks among those stopped by patrolmen precisely matched the share of blacks in the population exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph).
     
    In my decades of driving on the east coast, the very aggressive, semi-reckless/reckless driving on the highways is invariably done by black drivers. Whenever I see a car wildly weaving in and out of lanes while speeding on the highway, it's almost always a black driver.

    White aggressive drivers typically don't do these dangerous weaves. They will usually tailgate you in a large, often lifted, pickup truck, or speed on straightaways in sports or souped up cars. They will usually use the passing lanes or an open lane to speed ahead. The high speed reckless weaving seems to be mostly blacks.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  15. I drive for a living around Chicago. Here are my observations:

    black women: The worst of the worst. Careless, entitled, distracted, aggressive. They will swerve across three lanes to make a turn at the last minute.

    Mexican women: slow, entitled, oblivious, easily confused. On the expressways, the two types of people you will find doing exactly 55 mph in lane 1 (the passing lane or left lane) are mexican broads or negro broads.

    black men: just reckless. No regard for anything around them at all. I’ve seen dozens of CMV rollovers on exit ramps over the years – nearly all of them had a black driver. Half the accidents I see on the road involve a negro male.

    Interestingly enough mestizo men actually seem to be fairly safe drivers. The younger mestizo men in their Bario burners are stupid, but so are young white guys in their 30 year old diesel pickups rolling coal everywhere.

    As far as the statistics go, what % of accidents go unreported when both parties involved are black? Or mestizo? Much higher than when at least one party is white, I suspect.

    • Replies: @Hieronymous Schnreckensnatz-Obermeier III
    @Mike Tre

    About black women drivers: I once saw a black woman who had parked, appropriately, in a spot near a car dealership, with her front just up to the entryway to the business. There was a sign in the space ahead saying "No Parking in Front of Driveway." Another car had parked behind her. She had gone to her car to leave, with a black female passenger, and began repeatedly backing into the car behind her, smashing the car's headlights and drawing a crowd from the bookstore across the street. Incredibly, she was enraged because she was convinced that she had been locked in by the car parked behind her, and that the sign meant that she could not merely drive forward to leave! Eventually, she figured it out, and drove off, but not before her passenger had rolled down the window, leaned out, and shouted to one of the puzzled onlookers, "The motherfucker didn't give us no room to get out!"

    , @Ed
    @Mike Tre

    The same attitudes exhibited by many blacks outside of their vehicles such as selfishness and aggressive anti-social behavior are present in their driving.

    I see this a lot driving in the DC area especially PG county, good luck getting a driver to yield there. Good luck trying to get drivers to alternate merging into one lane. When most of the drivers are operating on a “me,me, me” principal things can get dicey in a hurry.

  16. win up in the ER

    I suspect a minor typo but in this Bizzaro World, who knows what can won where.

    Perhaps Hispanics flee before the ambulance arrives for their own legitimate reasons of illegitimacy.

  17. @Johann Theron
    Blacks are genetically endowed with some benefits whites don't have. Athletic ablity and UV resistant skin are a few. But what very few people know is that they also have a fantastic visual memory (as opposed to audio memory). As a result processsing takes longer. If you live in Africa, you will eventually come to realize that the speed they want to drive at under natural conditions, is 40kph.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Blankaerd, @Anonymous

    Another UNZian idiot who thinks up is down, and down is up. Blacks have inferior visual memory and visual spatial IQ as compared with whites, as demonstrated by multiple studies. There is no way higher visual intelligence would result in lowered driving ability or lowered “processing” time (quite the opposite, in fact).

    Before you write some cringeworthy face-saving response about how people can’t appreciate your inferior humor, just throw your computer out the window and jump off the nearest bridge.

    • LOL: AndrewR
  18. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Redneck farmer

    Agreed. Along with what Anon and Mr. Munny replied with, yeah, it's the city bus crash factor. The city bus rams into a vehicle that made a bad move in the intersection at about 20 mph. It turns out that 35 people were on the bus and need to be "made whole", while I could have sworn that there were only a dozen people on it, when saw it go by.

    I had to go to a deposition one time because I and a friend saw an 84 y/o black guy get run over. (He died a couple hours later at the hospital.) This was a one-way street, and the man walked out between parked cars with all traffic coming from his right.* It was pretty obviously not the driver's fault, but the black family wanted that golden ticket.

    .

    * It could have happened to lots of people, though, not just an 84 y/o, as it's easy to screw up as a pedestrian crossing a one-way street.

    Replies: @Skyler the Weird, @AndrewR

    There was an empty Charlotte City bus involved in a crash as it was out of service and headed back to the barn. About 20 people claimed to have been on the bus and sued for ‘injuries’.

    • Replies: @loren
    @Skyler the Weird

    did you forget a description of the injured?

  19. @Achmed E. Newman

    ● ED visit rates for patients who had Medicaid, no insurance, or workers’ compensation insurance as their primary expected source of payment were higher than for patients who had private insurance or Medicare.
     
    Of course it is. Who are the people who have insurance at the lowest rates? That would be black people and even more so, Hispanics. Yet, Hispanics go to the ER in a slightly lower proportion than white people? I wonder about the separation of Hispanics from white people in this data too.

    My point is that, for anyone who has no insurance the ER IS the doctor most of the time. Is it clear that all the people with a "yes" in the survey came straight over there from the wreck in an ambulance?

    Oh, and to put it into perspective, $75 Billion is one average weeks's worth of US Government spending... oops, that's on a good year, not 2020.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Prof. Woland, @S. Anonyia

    In related news COVID really cleaned out the ERs.

  20. I’d live to see the same stats for Northeast Asians.

  21. Charles Murray sounds depressed.

    https://spectatorworld.com/topic/identity-crisis-politics-race-wreck-america-charles-murray/

    I’m not sure what the point of this post is but I thank Steve for pointing out the CDC stats.

  22. @Technite78

    While we can usually distinguish between perpetrator and victim in homicides, although they don’t differ much racially, guilt is murkier in traffic statistics.
     
    Murkier? The data shown doesn't even attempt to distinguish between perpetrator and victim. If a reckless 20 year old T-bones a 70 year old, who is more likely to be going to the ED?

    Unless you restrict the data to single-vehicle accidents, I don't think attempting to make conclusions about what group are the worst drivers simply from ED visits will lead to accurate results (some trends may still stand out, but the ratios are likely to be skewed).

    BTW, when did "Emergency Department" replace "Emergency Room" as the place where people with serious injuries are treated?

    Replies: @Alden, @AndrewR

    Emergency rooms are now termed Trauma Centers, either Basic or Major.

  23. @Johann Theron
    Blacks are genetically endowed with some benefits whites don't have. Athletic ablity and UV resistant skin are a few. But what very few people know is that they also have a fantastic visual memory (as opposed to audio memory). As a result processsing takes longer. If you live in Africa, you will eventually come to realize that the speed they want to drive at under natural conditions, is 40kph.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Blankaerd, @Anonymous

    Fascinating. Do you have experience living in Africa?

  24. BRK says:
    @Redneck farmer
    Ghetto Driver Lottery? How many think they'll be able to win a big lawsuit, since every accident victim now gets flooded with flyers from law firms?

    Replies: @Anon, @william munny, @Achmed E. Newman, @BRK, @Anonymous, @S. Anonyia, @GomezAdddams

    Everyone hates going to the ER, except those who are in really bad shape, which is a good sort of self-triage. After an accident, you’re going to be waiting around for hours just for the ER doctor to give you some Tylenol, maybe run some x-rays to confirm you didn’t break any bones, and tell you to go for some physiotherapy.

    But if you don’t go to the ER after an accident, the first thing the insurance lawyer is going to ask you is 1) Did you go to the hospital after the accident? 2) Why not? 3) So how serious could your injuries be?

    The intricacies of lawsuits tends to run within social circles and ethnic communities. If your cousin and neighbor have talked to you about their motor vehicle accident lawsuits, you’ll pick up on the ins-and-outs and might be more likely to go to the ER to paper the file.

  25. Any study about racial disparities in driving-related crashes and deaths has to account for the fact that blacks are far less likely to own cars and drive fewer miles than whites do. They’re less likely to have jobs, they’re more likely to use mass transit, they tend to live closer to their jobs, they’re less likely to commute from distant suburbs to their jobs, and they’re less likely to take extended road trips. Since they live closer to their jobs, they’re also less likely to use high-speed interstates where vehicle deaths are more likely.

    If you adjust for miles driven and other differences in driving patterns it could very well be that blacks have twice the per capita death rate from car crashes as non-blacks.

    • Replies: @Dnought
    @Wilkey

    Good point. That would require a comparison of accident rates on a per capita VMT basis. The National Household Travel Survey would likely be the best source for such data. I may check that when I get the chance.

    , @Art Deco
    @Wilkey

    blacks are far less likely to own cars

    They're not.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Jim Bob Lassiter

  26. How many of these crashes are due to road rage induced in blacks by Asians driving at 55 mph in the fast lane?

  27. Casually walking out in front of traffic. That’s one kind of behavior that is shared mainly by blacks and glue-sniffing Middle Easterners. Does the study include such cases?

  28. On a Friday night, trying to leave LA for Las Vegas and caught in stop-and-go traffic for three hours while suffering jet lag, I fell asleep and bumped the rear end of the vehicle in front of me. I was scared shitless. Was some gangbanger going to get out and pump me and my girlfriend full of lead?

    A Hispanic man got out, looked at his bumper. I apologized profusely. He kind of shrugged and got back in his pick-up.

    Like crime stats, ER data is most reliable when focused on hard endpoints like deaths, not soft endpoints like complaints.

  29. Not a surprise to readers of Charles Murray. IQ probably correlates with driving abilities. Who knew?

  30. Maybe weed explains a bit of the difference. I saw lots of negroes lighting up in their cars in the San Fernando Valley. I always thought it was odd, like pulling out a bottle of Jack at a stop sign and taking a big swig.

  31. So are black drivers insurance rates 3.5x higher than Whites? If not, then why is it ok for insurance companies to offer higher rates to teen males than females?

  32. @Achmed E. Newman

    ● ED visit rates for patients who had Medicaid, no insurance, or workers’ compensation insurance as their primary expected source of payment were higher than for patients who had private insurance or Medicare.
     
    Of course it is. Who are the people who have insurance at the lowest rates? That would be black people and even more so, Hispanics. Yet, Hispanics go to the ER in a slightly lower proportion than white people? I wonder about the separation of Hispanics from white people in this data too.

    My point is that, for anyone who has no insurance the ER IS the doctor most of the time. Is it clear that all the people with a "yes" in the survey came straight over there from the wreck in an ambulance?

    Oh, and to put it into perspective, $75 Billion is one average weeks's worth of US Government spending... oops, that's on a good year, not 2020.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Prof. Woland, @S. Anonyia

    In California, I believe that the cops must come to the accident if there has been an injury or the damage is more than a certain amount (it used to be $500). It is also a law that everyone needs to have auto insurance. For the white guy who cares about how much his family pays per month he might be less inclined to have a claim, especially one with an ER visit that will be attributed to uninsured motorist coverage. For someone who is on Medi-Cal, not so much because it is the State that will pick up the tab. The odds are much better that the white guy cannot sue the black guy because you cannot get blood out of a turnip, particularly an uninsured one. If you are suing for (((whiplash))) the first thing you need to do is see the doctor and wear a neck brace.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  33. @Johann Theron
    Blacks are genetically endowed with some benefits whites don't have. Athletic ablity and UV resistant skin are a few. But what very few people know is that they also have a fantastic visual memory (as opposed to audio memory). As a result processsing takes longer. If you live in Africa, you will eventually come to realize that the speed they want to drive at under natural conditions, is 40kph.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Blankaerd, @Anonymous

    I would like to see some evidence that blacks have high visual memory. I do know of the Eskimos and the Aboriginals, but not of Sub-Saharan Africans.

  34. @Art Deco
    See Heather Mac Donald's article on the Manhattan Institute's study of speeding on New Jersey highways. Black drivers made up 25% of those exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph or more and 1/3 of those exceeding it by 25 mph or more. (The study was done to investigate complaints that New Jersey patrolmen stopped people for driving-while-black and discovered that the share of blacks among those stopped by patrolmen precisely matched the share of blacks in the population exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph).

    Replies: @Dnought, @Anonymous

    1/3 of the drivers exceeding the speed limit by 25 MPH or more are Black? That percentage actually seems low to me. I am certainly not a slow driver on the Interstate, so when I see a vehicle flying by me in the passing lane, they are likely doing 90 or more. When I glance to my left as they pass, it seems about 75% are Black, sometimes in a late model Mercedes, Lexus, etc, indicating a fairly high level of affluence. And I am in upstate NY where the black proportion of the population is relatively low. But I guess things are different in Jersey.

  35. @Wilkey
    Any study about racial disparities in driving-related crashes and deaths has to account for the fact that blacks are far less likely to own cars and drive fewer miles than whites do. They’re less likely to have jobs, they’re more likely to use mass transit, they tend to live closer to their jobs, they’re less likely to commute from distant suburbs to their jobs, and they’re less likely to take extended road trips. Since they live closer to their jobs, they’re also less likely to use high-speed interstates where vehicle deaths are more likely.

    If you adjust for miles driven and other differences in driving patterns it could very well be that blacks have twice the per capita death rate from car crashes as non-blacks.

    Replies: @Dnought, @Art Deco

    Good point. That would require a comparison of accident rates on a per capita VMT basis. The National Household Travel Survey would likely be the best source for such data. I may check that when I get the chance.

  36. Too many MPH-bureaucrats.

    Any academic institution with the word “public” in its name is crap. For example, schools of:

    • public health
    • public policy
    • public affairs
    • public administration

  37. Anonymous[658] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redneck farmer
    Ghetto Driver Lottery? How many think they'll be able to win a big lawsuit, since every accident victim now gets flooded with flyers from law firms?

    Replies: @Anon, @william munny, @Achmed E. Newman, @BRK, @Anonymous, @S. Anonyia, @GomezAdddams

    Dont get @iSteve started about floods hurricanes etc….

  38. As a couple of commenters have alluded to: If this is based on ER visits, it’s probably higher for blacks because they plan on making a personal injury insurance claim. Whites do this too, but to a lesser extent. Whites are more likely to suck it up and say, “I’m alright” even though they are bleeding.

  39. Surprising that Steve failed to notice that Blacks are less likely to own a car, or drive to work.

    Although Blacks are 12% of the adult population they drive less than 4% of the total miles driven by Americans and most of their driving is in urban areas which prevent high rates of speed due to congestion and more traffic lights and more police.

    • Replies: @res
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco


    Although Blacks are 12% of the adult population they drive less than 4% of the total miles driven by Americans
     
    Where did you see that?

    This survey indicates blacks drive about 25% fewer miles annually than whites.
    https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/49536/2000192-american-driving-survey.pdf

    Anyone have better data?
  40. @Wilkey
    Any study about racial disparities in driving-related crashes and deaths has to account for the fact that blacks are far less likely to own cars and drive fewer miles than whites do. They’re less likely to have jobs, they’re more likely to use mass transit, they tend to live closer to their jobs, they’re less likely to commute from distant suburbs to their jobs, and they’re less likely to take extended road trips. Since they live closer to their jobs, they’re also less likely to use high-speed interstates where vehicle deaths are more likely.

    If you adjust for miles driven and other differences in driving patterns it could very well be that blacks have twice the per capita death rate from car crashes as non-blacks.

    Replies: @Dnought, @Art Deco

    blacks are far less likely to own cars

    They’re not.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @Art Deco

    I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. Blacks continue to use mass transit in disproportionate numbers. There’s a reason for that.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Art Deco

    Anyone who lives in a core urban area is less likely to own a car, particularly in the North. Ergo Blacks probably do have lower car ownership rates attributable to that alone. In other parts of the country and in non urban settings not so much.

    Also worth mentioning is a more precise definition of "owning" a car.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  41. @Almost Missouri
    @Ralph L

    Yeah, the US rural population proportion is surprisingly large for a First World country and overwhelmingly white. Rural driving = faster driving. Rural crashing = harder crashing. So nonblack crashes are more likely to be fatal, not for racial reasons, but for geographical reasons.


    But, in general, blacks don’t seem to get killed in car crashes 3.5 times as much as whites do. I pointed out:

    Note that blacks are not terrible drivers. While blacks [at 1/8th of the U.S. population] were 55.9 percent of known murder offenders in 2019’s FBI crime statistics and 53.2 of homicide victims, they were a much more reasonable 16.9 percent of traffic deaths in 2019.
     

     
    Maybe there's a Sailer's Law of Mass Crashing in there, but, as described, it probably just shows that proportionally more blacks are driving in the more vehicularly constrained urban environment than nonblacks are. Energy—and therefore lethality—of crash impacts varies as the square of velocity, so a 60 mph crash is four times more harmful than a 30 mph crash.

    If everyone were equally skilled drivers, we might expect whites to get killed at 3.5× the black rate, since they are likely to be (rural) driving about twice as fast. Instead the crash statistic appears the other way around.

    Replies: @Ben tillman

    Whites may be driving faster, and surely they are driving much more per capita.

  42. I have been riding on buses driven mostly by blacks for 50 years now. I also have ridden in cars driven by black friends and co-workers for 35 years. I have been a pedestrian in a city with a large black population for almost 60 years. Blacks, are on average, extremely skillful drivers. They drive like athletes. It is noticable. Blacks also have a car culture. However, some of them, do not obey traffic laws, and I have seen far more blacks speed, run red lights, than I have seen people of other races do. Asians immigrants are the very worst of drivers. Physically uncoordinated and very selfish and inconsiderate of others. They cut off and kill pedestrians regularly. They had to install a special intersection in Oakland Chinatown, called a scramble, because Asian drivers were mowing down seniors. There was a sign in the window of the Asian Health Center, that read, “Walking Is a Right. Driving Is a Privilege.”

  43. @Redneck farmer
    Ghetto Driver Lottery? How many think they'll be able to win a big lawsuit, since every accident victim now gets flooded with flyers from law firms?

    Replies: @Anon, @william munny, @Achmed E. Newman, @BRK, @Anonymous, @S. Anonyia, @GomezAdddams

    I’ve twice had black drivers with beat-up cars intentionally try to get in a wreck with me on narrow city streets. It was so obvious it was some kind of scam. I just hit the brakes and started going 5 mph while searching for the nearest side street so their behavior would be noticed by other drivers and they’d have no choice but to keep going. In one incident, the women got angry when I stopped and yelled incomprehensibly for a few seconds before speeding away.

    Wonder how many people with lower situational awareness fall prey to this.

  44. Anonymous[287] • Disclaimer says:

    Sigh, divvying up car crashes racially without weighting for age of the driver(s) seems to neglect most of the factors that are important and probative, as opposed to nerd concerns like Zeitgeist noise or g-loaded motoring. Even though total of miles driven was down in the aggregated demos during the plandemic, it was way up for Uber and all the cockamamie, asset-stripping “carpe your diem of being Travis Bickle” VC scams emanating from Silicon Wall Valley Street that year.

    Truckers of any race are more likely to be tired/drugged per mile than the proverbial average driver was, but are accountable to some insurance company in a way the Uber hordes have never been. Gig economy has socialized all that cost onto us while picking clean the bones of profitable delivery of chemically constructed “food” and Chinese e-waste

  45. @Achmed E. Newman

    ● ED visit rates for patients who had Medicaid, no insurance, or workers’ compensation insurance as their primary expected source of payment were higher than for patients who had private insurance or Medicare.
     
    Of course it is. Who are the people who have insurance at the lowest rates? That would be black people and even more so, Hispanics. Yet, Hispanics go to the ER in a slightly lower proportion than white people? I wonder about the separation of Hispanics from white people in this data too.

    My point is that, for anyone who has no insurance the ER IS the doctor most of the time. Is it clear that all the people with a "yes" in the survey came straight over there from the wreck in an ambulance?

    Oh, and to put it into perspective, $75 Billion is one average weeks's worth of US Government spending... oops, that's on a good year, not 2020.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Prof. Woland, @S. Anonyia

    A lot of Hispanics (mainly Mexicans) drive really slow. Easier to avoid an accident if you have more time to react.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @S. Anonyia

    They're wetbacks with outstanding deportation orders who think that they are "driving under La Migra's radar" or they are driving without a license and insurance 'cause they sure as hell don't drive that way in Mexico.

  46. Anonymous[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johann Theron
    Blacks are genetically endowed with some benefits whites don't have. Athletic ablity and UV resistant skin are a few. But what very few people know is that they also have a fantastic visual memory (as opposed to audio memory). As a result processsing takes longer. If you live in Africa, you will eventually come to realize that the speed they want to drive at under natural conditions, is 40kph.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Blankaerd, @Anonymous

    How good are they at mind’s eye (as distinct from magic eye illustrations)? I ask bc that’s a new hot one among HBD aspies. We’re falling behind Indiachina in the mind-eye gap, by 2050 Sherlock Holmes’s 1,000-room memory-mansion may no longer be functional for K-12

  47. @Art Deco
    @Wilkey

    blacks are far less likely to own cars

    They're not.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. Blacks continue to use mass transit in disproportionate numbers. There’s a reason for that.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Wilkey

    Blacks continue to use mass transit in disproportionate numbers. There’s a reason for that.

    Mass transit accounts for a tiny share of intra-metropolitan passenger-miles traveled in this country.

  48. i don’t know what happens with car crashes, but it’s believable that africans are 3 times more likely than other people to do stupid stuff when driving. has anybody observed them drive? sometimes they just do whatever they want, whenever they want. if the car can physically do something, sometimes that’s just what they do. they don’t observe rules of the road or posted signs.

    mexicans are drunk drivers, but they don’t do stuff like that very often. usually their vehicle episodes are trying to evade authorities while driving with 15 people in a truck across the border, then crashing at 60 miles an hour.

    indians are actually the worst drivers on average, but they aren’t reckless or aggressive, which keeps the disastrous crashes to a minimum. i’m pretty a lot of state DMVs don’t even make indians take driver license tests. they simply allow middle aged indians who just moved to the US a year ago and who have never driven a car before to have a license and then send them on their way. i’m dead serious and i’m not joking at all. i actually think that is state policy in some places.

    • Agree: Michelle
  49. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    See Heather Mac Donald's article on the Manhattan Institute's study of speeding on New Jersey highways. Black drivers made up 25% of those exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph or more and 1/3 of those exceeding it by 25 mph or more. (The study was done to investigate complaints that New Jersey patrolmen stopped people for driving-while-black and discovered that the share of blacks among those stopped by patrolmen precisely matched the share of blacks in the population exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph).

    Replies: @Dnought, @Anonymous

    See Heather Mac Donald’s article on the Manhattan Institute’s study of speeding on New Jersey highways. Black drivers made up 25% of those exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph or more and 1/3 of those exceeding it by 25 mph or more. (The study was done to investigate complaints that New Jersey patrolmen stopped people for driving-while-black and discovered that the share of blacks among those stopped by patrolmen precisely matched the share of blacks in the population exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph).

    In my decades of driving on the east coast, the very aggressive, semi-reckless/reckless driving on the highways is invariably done by black drivers. Whenever I see a car wildly weaving in and out of lanes while speeding on the highway, it’s almost always a black driver.

    White aggressive drivers typically don’t do these dangerous weaves. They will usually tailgate you in a large, often lifted, pickup truck, or speed on straightaways in sports or souped up cars. They will usually use the passing lanes or an open lane to speed ahead. The high speed reckless weaving seems to be mostly blacks.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Anonymous

    In my decades of driving in the Midwest (Chicago area), the very aggressive, semi-reckless/reckless driving on the highways is invariably done by white drivers. The vehicle of choice? Pick-up trucks. Whenever I see a car wildly weaving in and out of lanes while speeding on the highway, it’s almost always a white driver. Now, do black aggressive drivers engage in dangerous weaves? Absolutely. They will also tailgate you in a large, often lifted, pickup truck, or speed on straightaways in sports or souped up cars, as well as use the passing lanes or an open lane to speed ahead. But, the high speed reckless weaving seems to be mostly whites.

    Replies: @Muse

  50. @Art Deco
    @Wilkey

    blacks are far less likely to own cars

    They're not.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Anyone who lives in a core urban area is less likely to own a car, particularly in the North. Ergo Blacks probably do have lower car ownership rates attributable to that alone. In other parts of the country and in non urban settings not so much.

    Also worth mentioning is a more precise definition of “owning” a car.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    He said 'far less likely'.

    https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/highlights_of_the_2001_national_household_travel_survey/table_01


    The Census Bureau figure differs slightly: about 91.5% of all households have a private vehicle. They haven't given a racial breakdown in some time. The figure from 2000 had it that 76% of all black households had access to a private vehicle.

    Replies: @Wilkey

  51. The interesting story is that Hispanics might be slightly safer drivers than Whites.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Much more likely to drive NOL and no insurance.

    , @TWS
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I have never not ever once seen an illegal hang around or report an accident. The only times they are at the scene is if they or the vehicle is immobile.

    , @Colin Wright
    @JohnnyWalker123

    'The interesting story is that Hispanics might be slightly safer drivers than Whites.'

    In LA, the average driver went about 10 mph slower in the Hispanic part of town when I lived there than he did out in West LA. Also, I suspect Hispanics drink less.

    Slower, more sober drivers are going to lead to lower accident rates. Also, they're often unlicensed and uninsured. They do not want to get pulled over. Back in the day, when we enforced our immigration laws, the joke was that you could always spot illegals. They were the ones doing exactly 55 mph.

  52. Whenever I see a car wildly weaving in and out of lanes while speeding on the highway, it’s almost always a black driver. White aggressive drivers typically don’t do these dangerous weaves. They will usually tailgate you in a large, often lifted, pickup truck, or speed on straightaways in sports or souped up cars. They will usually use the passing lanes or an open lane to speed ahead. The high speed reckless weaving seems to be mostly blacks.

    As someone who spends way too much time in freeway traffic I find this appraisal to be in complete agreement with what I see daily!

    • Agree: Jim Bob Lassiter
  53. ● The ED visit rate for motor vehicle crash injuries at hospitals located in the South

    How much of this is just a reflection of a higher black percentage in the population?

  54. Dr. says:

    The appropriate dependent variables should be normed to miles driven. Blacks probably drive less. Also to be fair, they should attempt to equate for dangerous miles driven. (An urban mile is more likely to result in an accident, but urban accidents are less likely to be fatal due to lower speeds.) Difficult stuff. But following news feeds in my city, I’m struck by how often a black person carjacks someone then crashes the car within a few blocks.

  55. @Wilkey
    @Art Deco

    I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. Blacks continue to use mass transit in disproportionate numbers. There’s a reason for that.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Blacks continue to use mass transit in disproportionate numbers. There’s a reason for that.

    Mass transit accounts for a tiny share of intra-metropolitan passenger-miles traveled in this country.

  56. They’re also 3.5 times more likely to be arrested for a violent crime, so this wouldn’t surprise me.

  57. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Art Deco

    Anyone who lives in a core urban area is less likely to own a car, particularly in the North. Ergo Blacks probably do have lower car ownership rates attributable to that alone. In other parts of the country and in non urban settings not so much.

    Also worth mentioning is a more precise definition of "owning" a car.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    He said ‘far less likely’.

    https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/highlights_of_the_2001_national_household_travel_survey/table_01

    The Census Bureau figure differs slightly: about 91.5% of all households have a private vehicle. They haven’t given a racial breakdown in some time. The figure from 2000 had it that 76% of all black households had access to a private vehicle.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @Art Deco

    Perhaps "far less likely" is a bit much. My real point is that for various reasons related to levels of wealth, employment, distance from employment, etc., your average black person drives fewer miles - perhaps significantly fewer miles - than your average white person. If you adjust for miles driven the rate of death for blacks from vehicle accidents would probably be much higher.

    If you don't own a car, don't have a job, or are in jail/prison, then you aren't driving as many miles as the average American. If you live in an inner-ring suburb then you probably don't drive as many miles as the average American.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

  58. All Blacks have access to a private vehicle. They can carjack.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    My neighbor's an office employee roughly 52 years of age. She lives with her daughter, who is of similar occupation, about 24 years of age, and never takes off her Howland Owl eyeglasses. You fancy they'll take up carjacking?

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

  59. @JohnnyWalker123
    The interesting story is that Hispanics might be slightly safer drivers than Whites.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Colin Wright

    Much more likely to drive NOL and no insurance.

  60. I’d guess that in the wake of a car crash, blacks are more likely to want to explore the possibilities for claiming injury and getting a fat insurance settlement. Obviously, a trip to the ER would be the first step. ‘If you were hurt, why didn’t you seek treatment?’

    In passing, it’s been my experience that in at least some jurisdictions, you have to fight to stay out of that ambulance. My wife and I were rear-ended by a tour bus in San Francisco — the car was totaled, but there were no apparent injuries of any consequence.

    Nevertheless, an ambulance materialized and tried to load up my wife. She wouldn’t go, but we made the mistake of letting the ambulance know her name and address. We spent the next month slowly, clearly, and repeatedly explaining that we were not going to pay their $500.00 charge for an ambulance ride that had not been requested and had never happened.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Colin Wright

    Good thing it wasn't the Jet Ranger Helicopter!

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  61. @S. Anonyia
    @Achmed E. Newman

    A lot of Hispanics (mainly Mexicans) drive really slow. Easier to avoid an accident if you have more time to react.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    They’re wetbacks with outstanding deportation orders who think that they are “driving under La Migra’s radar” or they are driving without a license and insurance ’cause they sure as hell don’t drive that way in Mexico.

  62. @Technite78

    While we can usually distinguish between perpetrator and victim in homicides, although they don’t differ much racially, guilt is murkier in traffic statistics.
     
    Murkier? The data shown doesn't even attempt to distinguish between perpetrator and victim. If a reckless 20 year old T-bones a 70 year old, who is more likely to be going to the ED?

    Unless you restrict the data to single-vehicle accidents, I don't think attempting to make conclusions about what group are the worst drivers simply from ED visits will lead to accurate results (some trends may still stand out, but the ratios are likely to be skewed).

    BTW, when did "Emergency Department" replace "Emergency Room" as the place where people with serious injuries are treated?

    Replies: @Alden, @AndrewR

    I worked in one from 2006 to 2008 and we always called it Department. We had multiple rooms so “Emergency Room” would not have been accurate.

  63. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Redneck farmer

    Agreed. Along with what Anon and Mr. Munny replied with, yeah, it's the city bus crash factor. The city bus rams into a vehicle that made a bad move in the intersection at about 20 mph. It turns out that 35 people were on the bus and need to be "made whole", while I could have sworn that there were only a dozen people on it, when saw it go by.

    I had to go to a deposition one time because I and a friend saw an 84 y/o black guy get run over. (He died a couple hours later at the hospital.) This was a one-way street, and the man walked out between parked cars with all traffic coming from his right.* It was pretty obviously not the driver's fault, but the black family wanted that golden ticket.

    .

    * It could have happened to lots of people, though, not just an 84 y/o, as it's easy to screw up as a pedestrian crossing a one-way street.

    Replies: @Skyler the Weird, @AndrewR

    When I was in London, England, all the intersections had signs telling people to look right first.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @AndrewR

    This wasn't at an intersection though, Andrew. It was near midway down the block. I'm not at all against crossing the street there, as often it CAN be safer than at the intersection. However, if you're an 84 y/o... maybe not.

  64. @william munny
    @Redneck farmer

    That is what I was thinking too. Out of numerous times I saw this in action, the one that stands out was when a hunk of sheetrock fell from the ceiling in a public building and hit a young black woman on the shoulder. An officer saw it happen and attended to her, and she said she was fine and did not want medical care because she was not hurt and just wanted to go on her way. A small crowd swarmed her and told her she was stupid and crazy. They were visibly angry at her for passing up on the opportunity. Another guy claimed he got hit too, and the officer who was there laughed at him. He said he was suing anyway and asked the crowd if they saw it hit him, and they agreed.

    Many people do this, but I would be that some groups do it more than others.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    They’re just like us

  65. @Skyler the Weird
    @Achmed E. Newman

    There was an empty Charlotte City bus involved in a crash as it was out of service and headed back to the barn. About 20 people claimed to have been on the bus and sued for 'injuries'.

    Replies: @loren

    did you forget a description of the injured?

  66. Are blacks really 3.5 times more likely than whites to have to go to the Emergency Room for motor vehicle crashes (including pedestrians being hit)?

    Let’s compromise and say there is a 3/5ths chance the answer is Yes.

  67. Nobody plays hit-and-run like illegals. Even legal Hispanics revert to type on this.

  68. @JohnnyWalker123
    The interesting story is that Hispanics might be slightly safer drivers than Whites.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Colin Wright

    I have never not ever once seen an illegal hang around or report an accident. The only times they are at the scene is if they or the vehicle is immobile.

  69. @Art Deco
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    He said 'far less likely'.

    https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/highlights_of_the_2001_national_household_travel_survey/table_01


    The Census Bureau figure differs slightly: about 91.5% of all households have a private vehicle. They haven't given a racial breakdown in some time. The figure from 2000 had it that 76% of all black households had access to a private vehicle.

    Replies: @Wilkey

    Perhaps “far less likely” is a bit much. My real point is that for various reasons related to levels of wealth, employment, distance from employment, etc., your average black person drives fewer miles – perhaps significantly fewer miles – than your average white person. If you adjust for miles driven the rate of death for blacks from vehicle accidents would probably be much higher.

    If you don’t own a car, don’t have a job, or are in jail/prison, then you aren’t driving as many miles as the average American. If you live in an inner-ring suburb then you probably don’t drive as many miles as the average American.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Wilkey

    I concur, but will note that the stimulus checks seem to have put a lot more blacks on the road of late.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  70. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:

    ER doctor talking here. You can go to the ER for anything, but that doesn’t mean you should or have to. Now, I must say I see a lot more accident “victims” than accident perpetrators, probably by about 4:1. Thankfully, most of the people end up being discharged from the ER after evaluation. I do not practice at a major trauma center, so I am sure there are some very critical patients I am not seeing that are transported by helicopter to the Level I trauma centers, but I the vast majority of patients I see would have been fine if they had stayed home. I do not get the sense that blacks are any worse drivers than anyone else. If they do have higher morbidity/mortality rates it is probably more likely due to vehicle characteristics (I suspect more likely to drive sedans rather than SUVs/trucks or older vehicles without the newer safety features) and somewhat below average seat belt/child safety seat utilization. I think the 3.5x rate likely reflects mostly baseline increased ED utilization for blacks and insurance status ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db401.htm “The ED visit rate for non-Hispanic black or African American persons (87 visits per 100 persons) was higher than the rate for persons from all other race and ethnic groups.
    The ED visit rate for patients with private insurance was lowest, while the rate for patients with Medicaid was highest compared with all other sources of payment.” )

  71. Well, black drivers never use their turn signals. That’s a remarkable but observable fact.

    Beyond that, back in the day, when I moved down to LA and the scales began to fall from my eyes…

    Spending a great deal of time driving and starting to wonder if black behavior really did leave something to be desired…

    I started counting. First, what proportion of all drivers were black? About one out of a hundred, where I spent my time (around Echo Park — me ‘n Linda).

    So…what proportion of the assholes are black? No cheating now — you have to decide ‘that’s an asshole driver’ first and then i.d. the race. If you already knew he was black, it doesn’t count (look, I spent a lot of time driving).

    About one out of ten. They really are shits. Grossly speeding, cutting in front of people, (as noted) never signalling…

    Maybe we should add not being allowed to drive along with not being allowed to possess firearms.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Colin Wright

    Well, black drivers never use their turn signals. That’s a remarkable but observable fact.

    I've been driving an automobile for 40+ years, including 25 years residence in core cities and inner ring suburbs where the black share of the population exceeds 20%. I've never observed it.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Colin Wright, @David In TN

  72. Rob says:

    I think 2020/2021 numbers are not unexpected compared to the past. I think they are the beginning of a new normal. We have hit an inflection point. Whites are on the way out (if these trends continue) and white norms are no longer the norms of the country.

    Noticers who travelled to the third world to write articles and books making fun of them, like P J O’Rourke, always noticed that third worlders are terrible drivers. They ignore laws, signage, and common sense. They have no pro-social behaviors. In Russia, a third world nation if they didn’t have raw materials to export, drivers all have cameras on their cars. Pedestrians run out and get hit/pretend to get hit. I put a link to a Wired article at the bottom about it.

    (Hey Ron, can we Unzers get a little box like the bold and italics tags to easily attach hyperlinks? I’m doing this on an iPad, html s a hassle)

    Fewer whites mean fewer whites driving. The third worlders, blacks are third worlders by any reasonable definition, follow their natural inclinations, and crash a lot.

    Some of it is not their fault as individuals. America is becoming third world. The cost of infrastructure projects is insane. There’s a great Slate Star Codex series on cost disease. Linked at the bottom. When prices go up, we usually call that inflation. It is not consumer inflation, but it costs us. I think prices for every day things have been low is because of Chinese production and third world labor imports driving down working class and below wages. The new Americans are not productive enough to pay their share to keep infrastructure per capita to keep up with the ever growing immigrant and their ‘American’ descendants. Like other third world countries, the US cannot tax the wealthy, and the artificial labor supply glut pushes income towards owners of capital. We tax capital gains at 15%. Our corporate tax rate is low low low…

    The roads are over-crowded and decaying because the nation cannot Build it Back Better™, because ‘we’ are no more. The third worlders no longer have to conform to our formerly high standards.

    Weed is also a problem, as Sailer has noted. As an off-and-on pothead, pot makes people worse drivers high or sober, because too much pot makes you dumb.

    The fate of America is already set. We are a third world country with third world traffic. We will soon have third world hospitals full of third world staff. They will do a third world job. It will cost a fortune in debased currency.

    Thank you Reagan for the deficit spending and amnesty. You killed America.

    Ruskies
    https://www.wired.com/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/

    Considerations on cost disease
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost-disease/

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Rob

    Yes, driving is the clearest indicator of a rules-respecting high trust society. The most important outcome of driving rules is to reduce accidents, not by nudging good practices, but by enabling predictability. If you know what the other guy will do next you are probably not going to come close to hitting him.

    , @Art Deco
    @Rob

    In Russia, a third world nation if they didn’t have raw materials to export,

    The fuel and mineral exports in 2019 accounted for just north of 14% of their nominal GDP. If you bracket out these exports, per capita product is in chained dollars similar to what it was in the U.S. ca. 1966. About 5.5% of the working population is in the agricultural sector (the comparable figure for Mexico is 15%). Literacy is universal. The homicide rate (~5 per 100,000) would be high in western Europe but low in any Latin American country; unlike over here, that metric has been rapidly improving in Russia. Life expectancy at birth (77.0) is lower than for other occidental countries, but still at a level the US did not reach until about 1985.

    Replies: @Rob

  73. @Redneck farmer
    Ghetto Driver Lottery? How many think they'll be able to win a big lawsuit, since every accident victim now gets flooded with flyers from law firms?

    Replies: @Anon, @william munny, @Achmed E. Newman, @BRK, @Anonymous, @S. Anonyia, @GomezAdddams

    Blacks excel at basketball —do OK in football and baseball—but are not so hot in professional wrestling—-as for driving –chances are they take public transit to see the Clippers—

    https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-06-19/NBA-on-Jun-18-Clippers-make-history-reaching-Western-Finals-11e00EZlrqw/index.html

  74. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    Surprising that Steve failed to notice that Blacks are less likely to own a car, or drive to work.

    Although Blacks are 12% of the adult population they drive less than 4% of the total miles driven by Americans and most of their driving is in urban areas which prevent high rates of speed due to congestion and more traffic lights and more police.

    Replies: @res

    Although Blacks are 12% of the adult population they drive less than 4% of the total miles driven by Americans

    Where did you see that?

    This survey indicates blacks drive about 25% fewer miles annually than whites.
    https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/49536/2000192-american-driving-survey.pdf

    Anyone have better data?

  75. @Mike Tre
    I drive for a living around Chicago. Here are my observations:

    black women: The worst of the worst. Careless, entitled, distracted, aggressive. They will swerve across three lanes to make a turn at the last minute.

    Mexican women: slow, entitled, oblivious, easily confused. On the expressways, the two types of people you will find doing exactly 55 mph in lane 1 (the passing lane or left lane) are mexican broads or negro broads.

    black men: just reckless. No regard for anything around them at all. I've seen dozens of CMV rollovers on exit ramps over the years - nearly all of them had a black driver. Half the accidents I see on the road involve a negro male.

    Interestingly enough mestizo men actually seem to be fairly safe drivers. The younger mestizo men in their Bario burners are stupid, but so are young white guys in their 30 year old diesel pickups rolling coal everywhere.

    As far as the statistics go, what % of accidents go unreported when both parties involved are black? Or mestizo? Much higher than when at least one party is white, I suspect.

    Replies: @Hieronymous Schnreckensnatz-Obermeier III, @Ed

    About black women drivers: I once saw a black woman who had parked, appropriately, in a spot near a car dealership, with her front just up to the entryway to the business. There was a sign in the space ahead saying “No Parking in Front of Driveway.” Another car had parked behind her. She had gone to her car to leave, with a black female passenger, and began repeatedly backing into the car behind her, smashing the car’s headlights and drawing a crowd from the bookstore across the street. Incredibly, she was enraged because she was convinced that she had been locked in by the car parked behind her, and that the sign meant that she could not merely drive forward to leave! Eventually, she figured it out, and drove off, but not before her passenger had rolled down the window, leaned out, and shouted to one of the puzzled onlookers, “The motherfucker didn’t give us no room to get out!”

  76. About black women drivers: I once saw a black woman who had parked, appropriately, in a spot near a car dealership, with her front just up to the entryway to the business, with a sign in the space ahead saying “No Parking in Front of Driveway.” Another car had parked behind her. She had gone to her car to leave, with a black female passenger, and began repeatedly backing into the car behind her, smashing the car’s headlights and drawing a crowd from the bookstore across the street. Incredibly, she was enraged because she was convinced that she had been locked in by the car parked behind her, and that the sign meant that she could not merely drive forward to leave! Eventually, she figured it out, and drove off, but not before her passenger had rolled down the window, leaned out, and shouted to one of the puzzled onlookers, “The motherfucker didn’t give us no room to get out!”

  77. For several years I used to commute from the north side of Chicago to work in northwest Indiana. I often took a route including the Dan Ryan Fwy to the Chicago Skyway. When traffic was bad on the freeway, I would take Lake Shore Drive (soon to be named Dusable Drive if the new regime has their way) to Stony Island Ave to Indiana. My observation is that black pedestrians on the south side felt perfectly comfortable walking in the middle of an eight lane road at all hours. This became very challenging when a black person in dark clothes was in the middle of the road in the dark at 5:00 in the morning. I have observed this behavior in all black neighborhoods in Chicago.

    I suggest that some of the skewed injury rates might be from pedestrians getting hit due to blacks propensity to walk in the middle of the street instead of using the sidewalks.

  78. @Simon in London
    Thinking about who will avoid hospital after a car crash when they're somewhat injured: people without medical insurance, especially those with seizable assets, people with greater stoicism/phlegmatism.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    Also people with outstanding warrants.

  79. @AndrewR
    @Achmed E. Newman

    When I was in London, England, all the intersections had signs telling people to look right first.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    This wasn’t at an intersection though, Andrew. It was near midway down the block. I’m not at all against crossing the street there, as often it CAN be safer than at the intersection. However, if you’re an 84 y/o… maybe not.

  80. @Colin Wright
    I'd guess that in the wake of a car crash, blacks are more likely to want to explore the possibilities for claiming injury and getting a fat insurance settlement. Obviously, a trip to the ER would be the first step. 'If you were hurt, why didn't you seek treatment?'

    In passing, it's been my experience that in at least some jurisdictions, you have to fight to stay out of that ambulance. My wife and I were rear-ended by a tour bus in San Francisco -- the car was totaled, but there were no apparent injuries of any consequence.

    Nevertheless, an ambulance materialized and tried to load up my wife. She wouldn't go, but we made the mistake of letting the ambulance know her name and address. We spent the next month slowly, clearly, and repeatedly explaining that we were not going to pay their $500.00 charge for an ambulance ride that had not been requested and had never happened.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Good thing it wasn’t the Jet Ranger Helicopter!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Achmed E. Newman

    'Good thing it wasn’t the Jet Ranger Helicopter!'

    Yeah. A few years later we were living on Hawaii's Big Island. Fortunately, we had proper health insurance by then, because...

    I had a major heart attack, which was pretty exciting for a while, but once they got clot buster into me at the local clinic the crisis was over. I wasn't ready to go home, but...

    But I did need major-league poking and prodding. So it was off to the real hospital on Oahu for a few days of the same. Now, there are hourly airline flights, and they really could have wheel-chaired me onto one of those. I felt like I'd been on the losing end of a bar fight the night before, but I was stable.

    But no Hawaiian Air Flight 103 for me. Life Flight!

    $44,000 bill for an hour ride in a light plane with a pilot and two attendants. I didn't have to pay it, but I saw it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  81. Steve,

    Most blacks who are middle aged or older and who commute to work have a story about being the victim of a hit and run. Most whites do not. That would be enough evidence of the difference in driving accident rates.

  82. Driving requires frequent decision making. Blacks – black women, especially – are not very good at decision making.

  83. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    All Blacks have access to a private vehicle. They can carjack.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    My neighbor’s an office employee roughly 52 years of age. She lives with her daughter, who is of similar occupation, about 24 years of age, and never takes off her Howland Owl eyeglasses. You fancy they’ll take up carjacking?

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Art Deco

    No, but cuz might.

  84. @Colin Wright
    Well, black drivers never use their turn signals. That's a remarkable but observable fact.

    Beyond that, back in the day, when I moved down to LA and the scales began to fall from my eyes...

    Spending a great deal of time driving and starting to wonder if black behavior really did leave something to be desired...

    I started counting. First, what proportion of all drivers were black? About one out of a hundred, where I spent my time (around Echo Park -- me 'n Linda).

    So...what proportion of the assholes are black? No cheating now -- you have to decide 'that's an asshole driver' first and then i.d. the race. If you already knew he was black, it doesn't count (look, I spent a lot of time driving).

    About one out of ten. They really are shits. Grossly speeding, cutting in front of people, (as noted) never signalling...

    Maybe we should add not being allowed to drive along with not being allowed to possess firearms.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Well, black drivers never use their turn signals. That’s a remarkable but observable fact.

    I’ve been driving an automobile for 40+ years, including 25 years residence in core cities and inner ring suburbs where the black share of the population exceeds 20%. I’ve never observed it.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Art Deco

    Oh come on, not only do they not, but if you do they will use it to cut you off. You probably live around tenthers.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Colin Wright
    @Art Deco

    'I’ve been driving an automobile for 40+ years, including 25 years residence in core cities and inner ring suburbs where the black share of the population exceeds 20%. I’ve never observed it.'

    I can only conclude you haven't looked.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @David In TN
    @Art Deco

    FWIW I see white drivers who don't use their turn signal.

  85. @Art Deco
    @Colin Wright

    Well, black drivers never use their turn signals. That’s a remarkable but observable fact.

    I've been driving an automobile for 40+ years, including 25 years residence in core cities and inner ring suburbs where the black share of the population exceeds 20%. I've never observed it.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Colin Wright, @David In TN

    Oh come on, not only do they not, but if you do they will use it to cut you off. You probably live around tenthers.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @J.Ross

    No. Postal workers.

  86. @Rob
    I think 2020/2021 numbers are not unexpected compared to the past. I think they are the beginning of a new normal. We have hit an inflection point. Whites are on the way out (if these trends continue) and white norms are no longer the norms of the country.

    Noticers who travelled to the third world to write articles and books making fun of them, like P J O’Rourke, always noticed that third worlders are terrible drivers. They ignore laws, signage, and common sense. They have no pro-social behaviors. In Russia, a third world nation if they didn’t have raw materials to export, drivers all have cameras on their cars. Pedestrians run out and get hit/pretend to get hit. I put a link to a Wired article at the bottom about it.

    (Hey Ron, can we Unzers get a little box like the bold and italics tags to easily attach hyperlinks? I’m doing this on an iPad, html s a hassle)

    Fewer whites mean fewer whites driving. The third worlders, blacks are third worlders by any reasonable definition, follow their natural inclinations, and crash a lot.

    Some of it is not their fault as individuals. America is becoming third world. The cost of infrastructure projects is insane. There’s a great Slate Star Codex series on cost disease. Linked at the bottom. When prices go up, we usually call that inflation. It is not consumer inflation, but it costs us. I think prices for every day things have been low is because of Chinese production and third world labor imports driving down working class and below wages. The new Americans are not productive enough to pay their share to keep infrastructure per capita to keep up with the ever growing immigrant and their ‘American’ descendants. Like other third world countries, the US cannot tax the wealthy, and the artificial labor supply glut pushes income towards owners of capital. We tax capital gains at 15%. Our corporate tax rate is low low low…

    The roads are over-crowded and decaying because the nation cannot Build it Back Better™, because ‘we’ are no more. The third worlders no longer have to conform to our formerly high standards.

    Weed is also a problem, as Sailer has noted. As an off-and-on pothead, pot makes people worse drivers high or sober, because too much pot makes you dumb.

    The fate of America is already set. We are a third world country with third world traffic. We will soon have third world hospitals full of third world staff. They will do a third world job. It will cost a fortune in debased currency.

    Thank you Reagan for the deficit spending and amnesty. You killed America.

    Ruskies
    https://www.wired.com/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/

    Considerations on cost disease
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost-disease/

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Art Deco

    Yes, driving is the clearest indicator of a rules-respecting high trust society. The most important outcome of driving rules is to reduce accidents, not by nudging good practices, but by enabling predictability. If you know what the other guy will do next you are probably not going to come close to hitting him.

  87. @Rob
    I think 2020/2021 numbers are not unexpected compared to the past. I think they are the beginning of a new normal. We have hit an inflection point. Whites are on the way out (if these trends continue) and white norms are no longer the norms of the country.

    Noticers who travelled to the third world to write articles and books making fun of them, like P J O’Rourke, always noticed that third worlders are terrible drivers. They ignore laws, signage, and common sense. They have no pro-social behaviors. In Russia, a third world nation if they didn’t have raw materials to export, drivers all have cameras on their cars. Pedestrians run out and get hit/pretend to get hit. I put a link to a Wired article at the bottom about it.

    (Hey Ron, can we Unzers get a little box like the bold and italics tags to easily attach hyperlinks? I’m doing this on an iPad, html s a hassle)

    Fewer whites mean fewer whites driving. The third worlders, blacks are third worlders by any reasonable definition, follow their natural inclinations, and crash a lot.

    Some of it is not their fault as individuals. America is becoming third world. The cost of infrastructure projects is insane. There’s a great Slate Star Codex series on cost disease. Linked at the bottom. When prices go up, we usually call that inflation. It is not consumer inflation, but it costs us. I think prices for every day things have been low is because of Chinese production and third world labor imports driving down working class and below wages. The new Americans are not productive enough to pay their share to keep infrastructure per capita to keep up with the ever growing immigrant and their ‘American’ descendants. Like other third world countries, the US cannot tax the wealthy, and the artificial labor supply glut pushes income towards owners of capital. We tax capital gains at 15%. Our corporate tax rate is low low low…

    The roads are over-crowded and decaying because the nation cannot Build it Back Better™, because ‘we’ are no more. The third worlders no longer have to conform to our formerly high standards.

    Weed is also a problem, as Sailer has noted. As an off-and-on pothead, pot makes people worse drivers high or sober, because too much pot makes you dumb.

    The fate of America is already set. We are a third world country with third world traffic. We will soon have third world hospitals full of third world staff. They will do a third world job. It will cost a fortune in debased currency.

    Thank you Reagan for the deficit spending and amnesty. You killed America.

    Ruskies
    https://www.wired.com/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/

    Considerations on cost disease
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost-disease/

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Art Deco

    In Russia, a third world nation if they didn’t have raw materials to export,

    The fuel and mineral exports in 2019 accounted for just north of 14% of their nominal GDP. If you bracket out these exports, per capita product is in chained dollars similar to what it was in the U.S. ca. 1966. About 5.5% of the working population is in the agricultural sector (the comparable figure for Mexico is 15%). Literacy is universal. The homicide rate (~5 per 100,000) would be high in western Europe but low in any Latin American country; unlike over here, that metric has been rapidly improving in Russia. Life expectancy at birth (77.0) is lower than for other occidental countries, but still at a level the US did not reach until about 1985.

    • Replies: @Rob
    @Art Deco

    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.

    In my defense, I got it from my sister, who went to St Petersburg Technical University for her first two years of college, circa 95- 98.she lived with a Russian family for a year and in a dorm for another. She did not have good things to say about Russians as a whole, but did say plenty were cool people individually. She’s fluent, so got a different, and better, view of the country than any diplomat who took a couple semesters of Spanish.

    If Russia has truly turned around, I gotta hand it to Putin, who must be Russia’s greatest tsar. He made Russia Great Again.

    Russia’s rises, first wrestling the country away from the non-Russians in the Communist Party, then Putin overseeing their recovery from the oligarchs, gives me some hope that America can recover without bloodshed.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Johann Ricke, @Johann Ricke

  88. @Art Deco
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    My neighbor's an office employee roughly 52 years of age. She lives with her daughter, who is of similar occupation, about 24 years of age, and never takes off her Howland Owl eyeglasses. You fancy they'll take up carjacking?

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    No, but cuz might.

  89. @Wilkey
    @Art Deco

    Perhaps "far less likely" is a bit much. My real point is that for various reasons related to levels of wealth, employment, distance from employment, etc., your average black person drives fewer miles - perhaps significantly fewer miles - than your average white person. If you adjust for miles driven the rate of death for blacks from vehicle accidents would probably be much higher.

    If you don't own a car, don't have a job, or are in jail/prison, then you aren't driving as many miles as the average American. If you live in an inner-ring suburb then you probably don't drive as many miles as the average American.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    I concur, but will note that the stimulus checks seem to have put a lot more blacks on the road of late.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    I am since the helicoptering seeing many more Basketball-American drivers of those three-wheeled two-seaters with no protection from rain.

  90. @Art Deco
    @Colin Wright

    Well, black drivers never use their turn signals. That’s a remarkable but observable fact.

    I've been driving an automobile for 40+ years, including 25 years residence in core cities and inner ring suburbs where the black share of the population exceeds 20%. I've never observed it.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Colin Wright, @David In TN

    ‘I’ve been driving an automobile for 40+ years, including 25 years residence in core cities and inner ring suburbs where the black share of the population exceeds 20%. I’ve never observed it.’

    I can only conclude you haven’t looked.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Colin Wright

    The only thing you're looking at is what you've pulled out of your rectum.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

  91. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Colin Wright

    Good thing it wasn't the Jet Ranger Helicopter!

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Good thing it wasn’t the Jet Ranger Helicopter!’

    Yeah. A few years later we were living on Hawaii’s Big Island. Fortunately, we had proper health insurance by then, because…

    I had a major heart attack, which was pretty exciting for a while, but once they got clot buster into me at the local clinic the crisis was over. I wasn’t ready to go home, but…

    But I did need major-league poking and prodding. So it was off to the real hospital on Oahu for a few days of the same. Now, there are hourly airline flights, and they really could have wheel-chaired me onto one of those. I felt like I’d been on the losing end of a bar fight the night before, but I was stable.

    But no Hawaiian Air Flight 103 for me. Life Flight!

    $44,000 bill for an hour ride in a light plane with a pilot and two attendants. I didn’t have to pay it, but I saw it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Colin Wright

    I guess it was a Lear or Citation, or maybe you weren't quite in the mood to appreciate that $40,000 ride. The life flight choppers charge an exorbitant amount. That's fine when you really need it.

    I'm glad you are doing OK now, Colin.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  92. “Anyway, the fact that I dug up a couple of weeks ago, that black road deaths were up 36% during the Racial Reckoning compared to 9% for everybody else is one of the more striking statistics from a year, 2020, full of unexpected numbers.”

    In iSteve’s Taki’s article, he stated that “Could it be that between the declining fear of being pulled over, the explosion in black feelings of exuberance and entitlement, not to mention the stimulus checks, blacks just started driving more recklessly? In other words, you were other than certain. Now, in not so subtle fashion, he gaslights in his most recent narrative with the comment that “not until George Floyd’s death liberated them to drive really, really bad”. Basically, he is reiterating there is a correlation. But as far as clearly establishing causation, well, that has yet to be established.

    As I pointed out in Mr. Sailer’s Taki’s article…

    So, in the end, you’re really not certain, although you lead your fanbois and fangirlz to draw for themselves the “right” conclusion. Had you done some NOTICING, you would realize NHTSA’s research suggests that during the lockdowns, driving patterns changed significantly across the board. Why? Drivers who remained on the roads engaged in riskier behavior, like speeding, failing to wear seat belts, and driving under the influence. Traffic data also shows average speeds increased throughout the year, and examples of extreme speeds became more common. These trends were especially prominent in southern states, where whites there especially were more likely to resist COVID 19 restrictions. In fact, total estimated fatalities increased on rural local/collector roads (up 11%). The type of driver still made trips despite the stay-at-home orders while fewer cars on the roads emboldened more risk takers to engage in faster driving, which, in turn, made streets more deadly. Data collected from trauma centers also show an increase in the number of people ejected from vehicles, which skew white. So it was a broad range of people who exemplified a hazard to life and limb on our highways and byways.

    Something else to consider…where Americans live and where they work were likely contributing factors to who died. More white adult Americans with higher educational attainment and incomes were able to stay at home and work rather than commute during the pandemic, which one could reasonably infer was a factor for the lower death rates for this racial group.

  93. @Anonymous
    @Art Deco


    See Heather Mac Donald’s article on the Manhattan Institute’s study of speeding on New Jersey highways. Black drivers made up 25% of those exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph or more and 1/3 of those exceeding it by 25 mph or more. (The study was done to investigate complaints that New Jersey patrolmen stopped people for driving-while-black and discovered that the share of blacks among those stopped by patrolmen precisely matched the share of blacks in the population exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph).
     
    In my decades of driving on the east coast, the very aggressive, semi-reckless/reckless driving on the highways is invariably done by black drivers. Whenever I see a car wildly weaving in and out of lanes while speeding on the highway, it's almost always a black driver.

    White aggressive drivers typically don't do these dangerous weaves. They will usually tailgate you in a large, often lifted, pickup truck, or speed on straightaways in sports or souped up cars. They will usually use the passing lanes or an open lane to speed ahead. The high speed reckless weaving seems to be mostly blacks.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    In my decades of driving in the Midwest (Chicago area), the very aggressive, semi-reckless/reckless driving on the highways is invariably done by white drivers. The vehicle of choice? Pick-up trucks. Whenever I see a car wildly weaving in and out of lanes while speeding on the highway, it’s almost always a white driver. Now, do black aggressive drivers engage in dangerous weaves? Absolutely. They will also tailgate you in a large, often lifted, pickup truck, or speed on straightaways in sports or souped up cars, as well as use the passing lanes or an open lane to speed ahead. But, the high speed reckless weaving seems to be mostly whites.

    • Replies: @Muse
    @Corvinus

    The level of driving aggression depends on the road your on, and what time. I find the majority of aggressive drivers on the Dan Ryan, Eisenhower and Bishop Ford expressways to be black, which is to be expected as they traverse primarily black areas.

    The race of the aggressive drivers on the Kennedy is mixed and the race of aggressive drivers on the Edens expressway are primarily white. There are however a few of these incidents on the Edens from sports ball players once in a while:

    https://journalstar.com/sports/car-registered-to-bears-briggs-found-abandoned-after-accident/article_21f2fd59-da92-555e-af49-e3fc7ba3f1ad.html

    Aggressive driving is less common, although plentiful on the suburban tollways vs the city. Furthermore, aggression is much worse late night on the weekends, and there are aggressive drivers on the Dan Ryan between 10pm and 3am that will blow your mind. Given the number of highway shootings during those periods, you should avoid it during shooting gallery hours.

    My rule of thumb is the Dan Ryan is full of idiot drivers, and the Edens is full of asshole drivers.

    Meanwhile, back in Portland

    https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2021/06/letter-from-the-editor-ap-announces-shift-in-coverage-of-minor-crimes.html

  94. What is the rate of black car ownership?

    I would think lower than other groups.

    Black women are terrible drivers, but the old black guys who used to drive the Greyhounds I rode in college seemed pretty good.

    One thing is that blacks do not like to defer to anyone out of politeness or even in the interest of safety. It is a point of pride. Therefore, you see them going up or down the wrong staircase, standing in doorways, sprawling on subways, riding bikes on sidewalks, cutting people off in traffic, refusing to concede a space in traffic, etc. A new thing in NYC is packs of boogies on illegal motorbikes and atvs scaring the crap out of old people in children. They especially like to do this in the previously off-limits UWS, Chelsea, the Village, and so on.

    It goes without saying they probably road rage a lot, too. Especially now.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I disagree, many black women are very good drivers, especially when it comes to Public Transit. I have ridden in buses, piloted by black women, wherein the ride has been, smooth, smooth. Sometimes, they finesse turns, and stop so lightly, and pull up to curbs, so evenly, that it feels like we are flying.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

  95. In my many years of driving experience, I’ve noticed that blacks seem to engage in jaywalking more than any other race. Other races will jaywalk occasionally but blacks seem to do it much more often, even in heavy traffic, causing drivers to slam on the brakes for them.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  96. @Corvinus
    @Anonymous

    In my decades of driving in the Midwest (Chicago area), the very aggressive, semi-reckless/reckless driving on the highways is invariably done by white drivers. The vehicle of choice? Pick-up trucks. Whenever I see a car wildly weaving in and out of lanes while speeding on the highway, it’s almost always a white driver. Now, do black aggressive drivers engage in dangerous weaves? Absolutely. They will also tailgate you in a large, often lifted, pickup truck, or speed on straightaways in sports or souped up cars, as well as use the passing lanes or an open lane to speed ahead. But, the high speed reckless weaving seems to be mostly whites.

    Replies: @Muse

    The level of driving aggression depends on the road your on, and what time. I find the majority of aggressive drivers on the Dan Ryan, Eisenhower and Bishop Ford expressways to be black, which is to be expected as they traverse primarily black areas.

    The race of the aggressive drivers on the Kennedy is mixed and the race of aggressive drivers on the Edens expressway are primarily white. There are however a few of these incidents on the Edens from sports ball players once in a while:

    https://journalstar.com/sports/car-registered-to-bears-briggs-found-abandoned-after-accident/article_21f2fd59-da92-555e-af49-e3fc7ba3f1ad.html

    Aggressive driving is less common, although plentiful on the suburban tollways vs the city. Furthermore, aggression is much worse late night on the weekends, and there are aggressive drivers on the Dan Ryan between 10pm and 3am that will blow your mind. Given the number of highway shootings during those periods, you should avoid it during shooting gallery hours.

    My rule of thumb is the Dan Ryan is full of idiot drivers, and the Edens is full of asshole drivers.

    Meanwhile, back in Portland

    https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2021/06/letter-from-the-editor-ap-announces-shift-in-coverage-of-minor-crimes.html

  97. @Colin Wright
    @Achmed E. Newman

    'Good thing it wasn’t the Jet Ranger Helicopter!'

    Yeah. A few years later we were living on Hawaii's Big Island. Fortunately, we had proper health insurance by then, because...

    I had a major heart attack, which was pretty exciting for a while, but once they got clot buster into me at the local clinic the crisis was over. I wasn't ready to go home, but...

    But I did need major-league poking and prodding. So it was off to the real hospital on Oahu for a few days of the same. Now, there are hourly airline flights, and they really could have wheel-chaired me onto one of those. I felt like I'd been on the losing end of a bar fight the night before, but I was stable.

    But no Hawaiian Air Flight 103 for me. Life Flight!

    $44,000 bill for an hour ride in a light plane with a pilot and two attendants. I didn't have to pay it, but I saw it.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I guess it was a Lear or Citation, or maybe you weren’t quite in the mood to appreciate that $40,000 ride. The life flight choppers charge an exorbitant amount. That’s fine when you really need it.

    I’m glad you are doing OK now, Colin.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Achmed E. Newman

    'I guess it was a Lear or Citation, or maybe you weren’t quite in the mood to appreciate that $40,000 ride. The life flight choppers charge an exorbitant amount. That’s fine when you really need it.'

    No, it was just a prop job. Obviously, big enough to take a stretcher, but it wasn't too impressive. The air distance is only 162 miles.

    Anyway, the point was that the ride really was superfluous -- and why should it have cost $44,000? It wasn't like I got to keep the plane.

    They weren't going to do anything urgent to me in Oahu. In fact, in the upshot, they didn't do much at all. Eventually decided that my heart hadn't suffered serious damage and that a stent wouldn't be required.

    It was interesting watching Hawaiian mores interacting with big hospital protocol during the three days I was there, but that's another story.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  98. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Colin Wright

    I guess it was a Lear or Citation, or maybe you weren't quite in the mood to appreciate that $40,000 ride. The life flight choppers charge an exorbitant amount. That's fine when you really need it.

    I'm glad you are doing OK now, Colin.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘I guess it was a Lear or Citation, or maybe you weren’t quite in the mood to appreciate that $40,000 ride. The life flight choppers charge an exorbitant amount. That’s fine when you really need it.’

    No, it was just a prop job. Obviously, big enough to take a stretcher, but it wasn’t too impressive. The air distance is only 162 miles.

    Anyway, the point was that the ride really was superfluous — and why should it have cost $44,000? It wasn’t like I got to keep the plane.

    They weren’t going to do anything urgent to me in Oahu. In fact, in the upshot, they didn’t do much at all. Eventually decided that my heart hadn’t suffered serious damage and that a stent wouldn’t be required.

    It was interesting watching Hawaiian mores interacting with big hospital protocol during the three days I was there, but that’s another story.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Colin Wright

    Maybe a King Air. I got your point, and yeah, they made a lot of money. I have a story about a medivac helicopter when I witnessed someone get hurt pretty bad. The ambulance came, spent 15 minutes with the guy, then the helicopter came, spent at least that much time stabilizing him. I dunno, I think he could have been most of the way to the hospital when they took off.

    From a cardiologist friend, he had an "indigent" patient come in twice to the hospital on an ambulance complaining of chest pains. Both times the guy refused treatment, so it was a waste of taxpayers' and/or paying patients' money. The 3rd time he came in on a helicopter. My friend got so pissed he told the guy to get the hell out, and don't come back wasting everyone's money again.

    That's great that you didn't even need a stent, BTW.

    Replies: @Ralph L

  99. @JohnnyWalker123
    The interesting story is that Hispanics might be slightly safer drivers than Whites.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Colin Wright

    ‘The interesting story is that Hispanics might be slightly safer drivers than Whites.’

    In LA, the average driver went about 10 mph slower in the Hispanic part of town when I lived there than he did out in West LA. Also, I suspect Hispanics drink less.

    Slower, more sober drivers are going to lead to lower accident rates. Also, they’re often unlicensed and uninsured. They do not want to get pulled over. Back in the day, when we enforced our immigration laws, the joke was that you could always spot illegals. They were the ones doing exactly 55 mph.

  100. If you want to sue you go to the emergency room.

  101. Rob says:
    @Art Deco
    @Rob

    In Russia, a third world nation if they didn’t have raw materials to export,

    The fuel and mineral exports in 2019 accounted for just north of 14% of their nominal GDP. If you bracket out these exports, per capita product is in chained dollars similar to what it was in the U.S. ca. 1966. About 5.5% of the working population is in the agricultural sector (the comparable figure for Mexico is 15%). Literacy is universal. The homicide rate (~5 per 100,000) would be high in western Europe but low in any Latin American country; unlike over here, that metric has been rapidly improving in Russia. Life expectancy at birth (77.0) is lower than for other occidental countries, but still at a level the US did not reach until about 1985.

    Replies: @Rob

    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.

    In my defense, I got it from my sister, who went to St Petersburg Technical University for her first two years of college, circa 95- 98.she lived with a Russian family for a year and in a dorm for another. She did not have good things to say about Russians as a whole, but did say plenty were cool people individually. She’s fluent, so got a different, and better, view of the country than any diplomat who took a couple semesters of Spanish.

    If Russia has truly turned around, I gotta hand it to Putin, who must be Russia’s greatest tsar. He made Russia Great Again.

    Russia’s rises, first wrestling the country away from the non-Russians in the Communist Party, then Putin overseeing their recovery from the oligarchs, gives me some hope that America can recover without bloodshed.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Rob

    '...Russia’s rises, first wrestling the country away from the non-Russians in the Communist Party, then Putin overseeing their recovery from the oligarchs, gives me some hope that America can recover without bloodshed.'

    Yeah -- but is what's restored the equivalent of what was there before the revolution: the writers. etc?

    Ditto for Diocletian's restoration of the Roman Empire after the Third Century Crisis -- it wasn't what had been there before.

    We may well overcome the babbling lunatics of the Left; but will we ever get back what we had? I doubt it. It's going to be a new Dark Age -- one way or the other.

    Inshallah, I'll turn out to be wrong.

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Rob


    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.
     
    While Art's numbers are literally correct, they aren't necessarily the most relevant or the most complete. Saudi Arabia's economy isn't 100% oil production, but that is the engine that pulls the rest of the economy. The way you hear the airheads on business channels talk, real estate is the motive force in the US economy, not IT, drugs, commercial aircraft, or other major sectors that make Uncle Sam #1. Take away those sectors where the US is at the head of the pack, qualitatively-speaking, and the nation becomes a warmed-over Brazil or Russia, from an economic standpoint.
    , @Johann Ricke
    @Rob


    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.
     
    For instance, Russia's growth in GDP has outpaced Saudi Arabia's in the time interval since 2000. The ratio is ~2:1.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(nominal)#IMF_estimates_between_2000_and_2009

    But unlike Saudi Arabia, Russia also exports gold and a whole raft of other commodities. I haven't the time to look into this further in any detail, but as of today, the gold price increase since 2000 has outpaced oil.
  102. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Wilkey

    I concur, but will note that the stimulus checks seem to have put a lot more blacks on the road of late.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I am since the helicoptering seeing many more Basketball-American drivers of those three-wheeled two-seaters with no protection from rain.

  103. @J.Ross
    @Art Deco

    Oh come on, not only do they not, but if you do they will use it to cut you off. You probably live around tenthers.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    No. Postal workers.

  104. @Colin Wright
    @Art Deco

    'I’ve been driving an automobile for 40+ years, including 25 years residence in core cities and inner ring suburbs where the black share of the population exceeds 20%. I’ve never observed it.'

    I can only conclude you haven't looked.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    The only thing you’re looking at is what you’ve pulled out of your rectum.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @Art Deco

    What an infantile response. You should be embarrassed.

  105. @Colin Wright
    @Achmed E. Newman

    'I guess it was a Lear or Citation, or maybe you weren’t quite in the mood to appreciate that $40,000 ride. The life flight choppers charge an exorbitant amount. That’s fine when you really need it.'

    No, it was just a prop job. Obviously, big enough to take a stretcher, but it wasn't too impressive. The air distance is only 162 miles.

    Anyway, the point was that the ride really was superfluous -- and why should it have cost $44,000? It wasn't like I got to keep the plane.

    They weren't going to do anything urgent to me in Oahu. In fact, in the upshot, they didn't do much at all. Eventually decided that my heart hadn't suffered serious damage and that a stent wouldn't be required.

    It was interesting watching Hawaiian mores interacting with big hospital protocol during the three days I was there, but that's another story.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Maybe a King Air. I got your point, and yeah, they made a lot of money. I have a story about a medivac helicopter when I witnessed someone get hurt pretty bad. The ambulance came, spent 15 minutes with the guy, then the helicopter came, spent at least that much time stabilizing him. I dunno, I think he could have been most of the way to the hospital when they took off.

    From a cardiologist friend, he had an “indigent” patient come in twice to the hospital on an ambulance complaining of chest pains. Both times the guy refused treatment, so it was a waste of taxpayers’ and/or paying patients’ money. The 3rd time he came in on a helicopter. My friend got so pissed he told the guy to get the hell out, and don’t come back wasting everyone’s money again.

    That’s great that you didn’t even need a stent, BTW.

    • Thanks: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That was one reason Princess Di died--they tried to stabilizer her on the scene and en route, so they drove slowly. It took two hours to get her to the ER, where they discovered it was too late to fix her torn artery. The other reasons were no seat belt and no guardrail keeping vehicles from hitting the pillars head on, only a high curb. The French need more personal injury lawyers.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  106. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Colin Wright

    Maybe a King Air. I got your point, and yeah, they made a lot of money. I have a story about a medivac helicopter when I witnessed someone get hurt pretty bad. The ambulance came, spent 15 minutes with the guy, then the helicopter came, spent at least that much time stabilizing him. I dunno, I think he could have been most of the way to the hospital when they took off.

    From a cardiologist friend, he had an "indigent" patient come in twice to the hospital on an ambulance complaining of chest pains. Both times the guy refused treatment, so it was a waste of taxpayers' and/or paying patients' money. The 3rd time he came in on a helicopter. My friend got so pissed he told the guy to get the hell out, and don't come back wasting everyone's money again.

    That's great that you didn't even need a stent, BTW.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    That was one reason Princess Di died–they tried to stabilizer her on the scene and en route, so they drove slowly. It took two hours to get her to the ER, where they discovered it was too late to fix her torn artery. The other reasons were no seat belt and no guardrail keeping vehicles from hitting the pillars head on, only a high curb. The French need more personal injury lawyers.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Ralph L

    IIRC, it took 45 minutes to get her to the hospital from the time the ambulance arrived. The reason given for public consumption was that ambulances in France are equipped to be extensions of the hospital and slow rides are normal.

    Also, IIRC, Dodi Fayed and Henri Paul were killed instantly. She and the guard Trevor Rees survived the impact. Neither was wearing a seatbelt and Rees later explained there are practical reasons guards do not wear them. What was salient was the position of each person in the vehicle.

    I'm recalling that in the same run of years there was a ghastly one-car auto accident near me, the vehicle being a jeep carrying seven college students. The jeep hits a tree and the front passenger is thrown through the windshield (and killed on impact). The vehicle spins around and hits a tree and the right rear door pops open; the two right rear passengers, one seated in the lap of the other, are thrown from the car and killed on impact. In the course of this, the two passengers in the middle of the rear seat, one seated on top of the other, suffered injuries from the impacts. One was thrown in the back bay of the jeep and survived about an hour; the impacts had torn one of her arteries. The other survived the accident, but had to be medivac'd to a trauma center and had a mess of fractures, including her pelvis. The driver and the left-side passenger survived the accident with some bruises and scrapes, treated at a small town hospital; a nurse at the hospital tells the driver she needs to take a blood sample and he tells her, "take it all".

  107. @Rob
    @Art Deco

    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.

    In my defense, I got it from my sister, who went to St Petersburg Technical University for her first two years of college, circa 95- 98.she lived with a Russian family for a year and in a dorm for another. She did not have good things to say about Russians as a whole, but did say plenty were cool people individually. She’s fluent, so got a different, and better, view of the country than any diplomat who took a couple semesters of Spanish.

    If Russia has truly turned around, I gotta hand it to Putin, who must be Russia’s greatest tsar. He made Russia Great Again.

    Russia’s rises, first wrestling the country away from the non-Russians in the Communist Party, then Putin overseeing their recovery from the oligarchs, gives me some hope that America can recover without bloodshed.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Johann Ricke, @Johann Ricke

    ‘…Russia’s rises, first wrestling the country away from the non-Russians in the Communist Party, then Putin overseeing their recovery from the oligarchs, gives me some hope that America can recover without bloodshed.’

    Yeah — but is what’s restored the equivalent of what was there before the revolution: the writers. etc?

    Ditto for Diocletian’s restoration of the Roman Empire after the Third Century Crisis — it wasn’t what had been there before.

    We may well overcome the babbling lunatics of the Left; but will we ever get back what we had? I doubt it. It’s going to be a new Dark Age — one way or the other.

    Inshallah, I’ll turn out to be wrong.

  108. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    What is the rate of black car ownership?

    I would think lower than other groups.

    Black women are terrible drivers, but the old black guys who used to drive the Greyhounds I rode in college seemed pretty good.

    One thing is that blacks do not like to defer to anyone out of politeness or even in the interest of safety. It is a point of pride. Therefore, you see them going up or down the wrong staircase, standing in doorways, sprawling on subways, riding bikes on sidewalks, cutting people off in traffic, refusing to concede a space in traffic, etc. A new thing in NYC is packs of boogies on illegal motorbikes and atvs scaring the crap out of old people in children. They especially like to do this in the previously off-limits UWS, Chelsea, the Village, and so on.

    It goes without saying they probably road rage a lot, too. Especially now.

    Replies: @Michelle

    I disagree, many black women are very good drivers, especially when it comes to Public Transit. I have ridden in buses, piloted by black women, wherein the ride has been, smooth, smooth. Sometimes, they finesse turns, and stop so lightly, and pull up to curbs, so evenly, that it feels like we are flying.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Michelle


    I disagree, many black women are very good drivers, especially when it comes to Public Transit. Sometimes, they finesse turns, and stop so lightly, and pull up to curbs, so evenly, that it feels like we are flying.
     
    Sometimes, the black woman Public Transit driver will actually pilot her vehicle above normal altitude!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ldNZYfF2jA

    Replies: @Michelle

  109. Ed says:
    @Mike Tre
    I drive for a living around Chicago. Here are my observations:

    black women: The worst of the worst. Careless, entitled, distracted, aggressive. They will swerve across three lanes to make a turn at the last minute.

    Mexican women: slow, entitled, oblivious, easily confused. On the expressways, the two types of people you will find doing exactly 55 mph in lane 1 (the passing lane or left lane) are mexican broads or negro broads.

    black men: just reckless. No regard for anything around them at all. I've seen dozens of CMV rollovers on exit ramps over the years - nearly all of them had a black driver. Half the accidents I see on the road involve a negro male.

    Interestingly enough mestizo men actually seem to be fairly safe drivers. The younger mestizo men in their Bario burners are stupid, but so are young white guys in their 30 year old diesel pickups rolling coal everywhere.

    As far as the statistics go, what % of accidents go unreported when both parties involved are black? Or mestizo? Much higher than when at least one party is white, I suspect.

    Replies: @Hieronymous Schnreckensnatz-Obermeier III, @Ed

    The same attitudes exhibited by many blacks outside of their vehicles such as selfishness and aggressive anti-social behavior are present in their driving.

    I see this a lot driving in the DC area especially PG county, good luck getting a driver to yield there. Good luck trying to get drivers to alternate merging into one lane. When most of the drivers are operating on a “me,me, me” principal things can get dicey in a hurry.

  110. @Art Deco
    @Colin Wright

    The only thing you're looking at is what you've pulled out of your rectum.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    What an infantile response. You should be embarrassed.

  111. @Rob
    @Art Deco

    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.

    In my defense, I got it from my sister, who went to St Petersburg Technical University for her first two years of college, circa 95- 98.she lived with a Russian family for a year and in a dorm for another. She did not have good things to say about Russians as a whole, but did say plenty were cool people individually. She’s fluent, so got a different, and better, view of the country than any diplomat who took a couple semesters of Spanish.

    If Russia has truly turned around, I gotta hand it to Putin, who must be Russia’s greatest tsar. He made Russia Great Again.

    Russia’s rises, first wrestling the country away from the non-Russians in the Communist Party, then Putin overseeing their recovery from the oligarchs, gives me some hope that America can recover without bloodshed.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Johann Ricke, @Johann Ricke

    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.

    While Art’s numbers are literally correct, they aren’t necessarily the most relevant or the most complete. Saudi Arabia’s economy isn’t 100% oil production, but that is the engine that pulls the rest of the economy. The way you hear the airheads on business channels talk, real estate is the motive force in the US economy, not IT, drugs, commercial aircraft, or other major sectors that make Uncle Sam #1. Take away those sectors where the US is at the head of the pack, qualitatively-speaking, and the nation becomes a warmed-over Brazil or Russia, from an economic standpoint.

    • Thanks: Rob
  112. @Rob
    @Art Deco

    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.

    In my defense, I got it from my sister, who went to St Petersburg Technical University for her first two years of college, circa 95- 98.she lived with a Russian family for a year and in a dorm for another. She did not have good things to say about Russians as a whole, but did say plenty were cool people individually. She’s fluent, so got a different, and better, view of the country than any diplomat who took a couple semesters of Spanish.

    If Russia has truly turned around, I gotta hand it to Putin, who must be Russia’s greatest tsar. He made Russia Great Again.

    Russia’s rises, first wrestling the country away from the non-Russians in the Communist Party, then Putin overseeing their recovery from the oligarchs, gives me some hope that America can recover without bloodshed.

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @Johann Ricke, @Johann Ricke

    Really?

    Wow. I trust you on numbers My impression of Russia is wrong.

    For instance, Russia’s growth in GDP has outpaced Saudi Arabia’s in the time interval since 2000. The ratio is ~2:1.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(nominal)#IMF_estimates_between_2000_and_2009

    But unlike Saudi Arabia, Russia also exports gold and a whole raft of other commodities. I haven’t the time to look into this further in any detail, but as of today, the gold price increase since 2000 has outpaced oil.

  113. @Art Deco
    @Colin Wright

    Well, black drivers never use their turn signals. That’s a remarkable but observable fact.

    I've been driving an automobile for 40+ years, including 25 years residence in core cities and inner ring suburbs where the black share of the population exceeds 20%. I've never observed it.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Colin Wright, @David In TN

    FWIW I see white drivers who don’t use their turn signal.

  114. @Michelle
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I disagree, many black women are very good drivers, especially when it comes to Public Transit. I have ridden in buses, piloted by black women, wherein the ride has been, smooth, smooth. Sometimes, they finesse turns, and stop so lightly, and pull up to curbs, so evenly, that it feels like we are flying.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    I disagree, many black women are very good drivers, especially when it comes to Public Transit. Sometimes, they finesse turns, and stop so lightly, and pull up to curbs, so evenly, that it feels like we are flying.

    Sometimes, the black woman Public Transit driver will actually pilot her vehicle above normal altitude!

    • Replies: @Michelle
    @Joe Stalin

    Ha ha!

  115. @Ralph L
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That was one reason Princess Di died--they tried to stabilizer her on the scene and en route, so they drove slowly. It took two hours to get her to the ER, where they discovered it was too late to fix her torn artery. The other reasons were no seat belt and no guardrail keeping vehicles from hitting the pillars head on, only a high curb. The French need more personal injury lawyers.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    IIRC, it took 45 minutes to get her to the hospital from the time the ambulance arrived. The reason given for public consumption was that ambulances in France are equipped to be extensions of the hospital and slow rides are normal.

    Also, IIRC, Dodi Fayed and Henri Paul were killed instantly. She and the guard Trevor Rees survived the impact. Neither was wearing a seatbelt and Rees later explained there are practical reasons guards do not wear them. What was salient was the position of each person in the vehicle.

    I’m recalling that in the same run of years there was a ghastly one-car auto accident near me, the vehicle being a jeep carrying seven college students. The jeep hits a tree and the front passenger is thrown through the windshield (and killed on impact). The vehicle spins around and hits a tree and the right rear door pops open; the two right rear passengers, one seated in the lap of the other, are thrown from the car and killed on impact. In the course of this, the two passengers in the middle of the rear seat, one seated on top of the other, suffered injuries from the impacts. One was thrown in the back bay of the jeep and survived about an hour; the impacts had torn one of her arteries. The other survived the accident, but had to be medivac’d to a trauma center and had a mess of fractures, including her pelvis. The driver and the left-side passenger survived the accident with some bruises and scrapes, treated at a small town hospital; a nurse at the hospital tells the driver she needs to take a blood sample and he tells her, “take it all”.

  116. @Joe Stalin
    @Michelle


    I disagree, many black women are very good drivers, especially when it comes to Public Transit. Sometimes, they finesse turns, and stop so lightly, and pull up to curbs, so evenly, that it feels like we are flying.
     
    Sometimes, the black woman Public Transit driver will actually pilot her vehicle above normal altitude!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ldNZYfF2jA

    Replies: @Michelle

    Ha ha!

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Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement
The JFK Assassination and the 9/11 Attacks?
Our Reigning Political Puppets, Dancing to Invisible Strings