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How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?

As I talked with people across the country, it occurred to me that the P2P meth that created delusional, paranoid, erratic people living on the streets must have some effect on police shootings. …

“We knew when the Mexican meth hit because people went crazier. Before that, police shootings were not common,” Cox told me. “Now there’s this new category of people starting shootouts with APD SWAT when they have one bullet and acting like they thought it would work.”

If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males.

 
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  1. If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males.

    Really? I’d say that sort of depends on what their objectives are.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    @HammerJack

    It's a feature, not a bug as they say.

  2. If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories

    Hey, it sounds like the members of the mainstream media are on the drug. 😉

    I wonder what will happen to the hurried cannabis decriminalization that occurred in Virginia this past summer, now that there is a new sheriff in town.

    Also, this says that Youngkin won Hispanics in VA 55-43 (and lost blacks 12-88): https://interactives.ap.org/votecast-2021-va/

    • Agree: Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie

    Education hurt the GOP with whites, but helped with non-whites.

    , @Rob
    @Twinkie

    The pro-man class uses a lot of Adderall. At least it's younger members do, but it started before the year 2000 in colleges, so by “younger” I mean in their forties.

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Twinkie

    "I wonder what will happen to the hurried cannabis decriminalization that occurred in Virginia this past summer, now that there is a new sheriff in town."

    Down and out textile/tobacco town Danville, VA (which already has a casino project in the works) will be a boomtown right dead center on the North Carolina state line.

    , @Prester John
    @Twinkie

    "Hey, it sounds like the members of the mainstream media are on the drug. "

    Maybe, though they sure as hell don't need it. A lot of them (including most of the staff of the NYT) have already drifted off into the twilight zone.

    , @anon
    @Twinkie


    Also, this says that Youngkin won Hispanics in VA 55-43 (and lost blacks 12-88)

     

    That's an unsupported assertion which cuckservatives have been milking for all it's worth (not much):

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/04/latino-poll-virginia-youngkin-mcauliffe-519425
  3. If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males.

    Yes, the media will heed that call. It’s not like they’re anti-White or anything.

    • Agree: Hangnail Hans, Lurker
    • LOL: The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    I've never heard of P2P meth though I'm not following that much.

    Methamphetamine has long been known to cause paranoia and subsequent violence, this is not new.

    Perhaps it is now stronger but I doubt it. In the old days the "legal" stuff seemed available.

    "Speed" was widely given in some combat situations and long used by truckers and students to stay awake. Some Vietnam vets were big users.

    My "hippie days" intel from others was to avoid 'speed freaks" at all costs. Had a bad reputation and wasn't much used recreationally in my circles. LSD was often cut with that and it kept you up a long time. Not fun when the high wore off.

    Prolonged use just makes one crazier. Now maybe combined with other things more often, though not sure what ("speedball' famously heroin and meth.)

    Popularity seems to stem from alleged sexual enhancement (for men) initially, though that wears off in a few months, so I read. That is, the Viagra-like effects cease. Bad for your health.

    Generally somewhat addictive and popular with low class criminal elements. Bathtub meth is a popular rural product, though very dangerous to make. Bad teeth effects are due to amateur production processes.

    The neo communist Democrat Party is all of the 'paranoia inducing" substance I need. Combined with Soviet style 'journalism' now rampant in Wokism.

    Most meth users (so I read) tend to be White so perhaps some paranoia is warranted now.

  4. An interesting thought.

    We should also look at the correlation of essential oils and people writing alternate reality op-eds for the NYT.

    • LOL: Sean
  5. When Antifa do meth they are not seen as White Trash by the rest of The Democratic Party because Antifa have Black Adjacent status.

  6. @Twinkie

    If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories
     
    Hey, it sounds like the members of the mainstream media are on the drug. ;)

    I wonder what will happen to the hurried cannabis decriminalization that occurred in Virginia this past summer, now that there is a new sheriff in town.

    Also, this says that Youngkin won Hispanics in VA 55-43 (and lost blacks 12-88): https://interactives.ap.org/votecast-2021-va/

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Rob, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Prester John, @anon

    Education hurt the GOP with whites, but helped with non-whites.

  7. Anitfa don’t need meth. That’s just what it looks like when you gather a bunch of young cluster B fuckups together and they encourage each other and society looks the other way while the media hypes them up. Unrestrained aggression and anger. Guys who tore down Woodstock ’99 weren’t on meth either.

    By it’s nature antifa seems to repel anyone who isn’t a cluster B fuckup. The criminal history of the guys Rittenhouse shot don’t include any convictions for meth and why would they? Their crimes (Including domestic abuse and, of course in Rosenbaum’s case, rape of his nephews) sound pretty typical of extreme anti-social personality disorder which doesn’t require drugs like meth to manifest.

    In normal life people like this aren’t too common but antifa serves as a kind of collecting ground for them. They’re enriched cluster B.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Altai

    I assume that toxicology was done on the people that Rittenhouse shot. Did they find meth or other drugs? I'm guessing that if they did the defense would have tried to introduce this.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @res

    , @Bolshevictim
    @Altai

    "...Society looks the other way" including law enforcement. "The criminal history of the guys Rittenhouse shot don’t include any convictions for meth" Of course they don't, but that doesn't mean they weren't using it.

  8. The kind of people who join Antifa don’t need meth to be fuckups.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  9. No, no one has slipped you a Mickey or a P2P. The color of France’s flag is indeed different from last year’s:

    We bet you didn’t spot that France has changed its flag design

    You can also blame the French for the annoying practice of automakers giving the wrong vintage year to their products. But don’t you dare mess with France’s tongue. Her “prescriptivists”, “grammar Nazis”, or whatever you call them still have some clout:

    The French revolt against ‘woke ideology’ after a non-binary pronoun is added to a dictionary

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Reg Cæsar

    This is the french war flag.

    Things are gonna get serious.

    Meanwhile, the Brits have dropped one of their F-35s into the sea. 150 million just like that.

    Replies: @Escher, @Muggles, @Right_On

    , @Altai
    @Reg Cæsar

    Well the situation is a bit complicated and overblown. Macron has merely changed what flag he has them flying from the Presidential palace. Nobody appeared to have even taken much note for a year.

    France has two official flags, the darker one that has been in use since the revolution and the light one introduced in the late 70s whose blue matches the European flag which hadn't itself even been officially adopted by any European body at the time.

    The light one is generally only flown from the presidential palace and by private citizens who may like the lighter hue. (You see the lighter a lot at sports events, looks better) The dark one was never out of use and was generally always the one used by the military and government.

    This is totally Macron's style though, do something trivial to make it seem like you're out there doing things (Even better if it looks like you're acting against type and are a true nationalist!) and changing things up while letting serious policies issues go unchanged. He is quite sensitive to his image as an impotent hollowman who will be the last president from the current French political establishment. Mainly because these things are absolutely true and he does represent the end of the line of the current French political consensus which offers no answers for any of France's pressing issues.

    , @SafeNow
    @Reg Cæsar

    Speaking of changing the color. Two days ago The Wall Street Journal ran a long, technical analysis of Steph Curry’s shooting-practice methods. The accompanying large photo was adjusted to make his skin appear darker than it is in real life. (Actually, a dark bronzing; it made him look Hispanic, rather than extra-black.) Maybe the idea was that, when the topic is refining shooting dynamics, it takes a person of color to figure it out. The WSJ is very strongly pro-migration.

    , @Joe Stalin
    @Reg Cæsar

    Sorry, no English subtitles.

    https://vimeo.com/274252400

  10. Steve Sailer:

    “How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?”

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing “new” about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This “catalytic hydrogenation” that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. “Methylated amphetamine”. The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is “weaker” than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be “weaker” because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    “If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males.”

    Sigh…all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of “cocaine bugs”?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
    • LOL: Wade Hampton
    • Troll: Hangnail Hans
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Zero Philosopher

    Left-winger know-it-all farting from all cannons deploying "wall of text" attack?


    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.
     
    Once you get into blue city centers high on cocaine and anti-depressants I wouldn't so sure.

    Replies: @WJ, @Zero Philosopher, @Clyde, @Brutusale

    , @Daniel H
    @Zero Philosopher


    Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to.....
     
    Along with 9,999 out of 10,000 of the rest of us folk. Now, stop sperging.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Zero Philosopher

    I thought the classic precursor was this, MEK. I'm pretty sure in the UK sales have to be reported.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanone

    Butanone is listed as a Table II precursor under the United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances.

    On topic, my impression is there's quite a distance between "fighting on the streets" antifa and "wear the tshirt" antifa. Student types these days aren't heavily into amphetamines except perhaps at exam time.

    , @Inquiring Mind
    @Zero Philosopher

    This business of "Mexican" amphetamine being more dangerous/potent/paranoiac/stupefying than "classic" amphetamine comes from a long-winded essay by a reporter in Atlantic.

    Try to keep up.

    Replies: @Mr Mox

    , @Zoos
    @Zero Philosopher


    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing “new” about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen.
     
    Stand aside, "Comic Book Guy"!

    Introducing the meticulous, ever-outraged "Meth Lab Guy."

    https://www.jeffsetter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Comic-Book-Guy.png
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Zero Philosopher

    OK Heisenberg, thanks for your input.

    , @Gabe Ruth
    @Zero Philosopher

    Thank you, I hate when pundits display criminal ignorance of common knowledge like this.

    You mention ADHD meds in connection with meth. There was a really angry commenter at an old blog that was always claiming that Ritalin (possibly a different drug) was chemically identical to meth, which he took as an indication that street meth is systematically poisoned or something.

    , @Jack D
    @Zero Philosopher

    I'm guessing that because Mexican P2P meth is made under less than perfect lab conditions, the synthesis is impure and contains other molecules, just as homemade moonshine contains substances other than ethyl alcohol. These other contaminants may (or may not - it might all be just street lore) influence overall experience such that a street P2P meth high is not quite the same as pharmaceutical grade meth high despite the fact that theoretically meth is meth regardless of which synthesis you used to produce it.

    Or may the Mexican meth dealers are intentionally introducing other drugs into their product, either as a way to reduce their costs or in order to give their product an extra kick and these other drugs account for the differing behavior of P2P meth addicts.

    To put this in terms that the average person can relate to, there is a lot of lore around different kinds of booze and which ones tend to make people "angry drunks" vs "mellow drunks". Now, in theory, ethanol is ethanol, but there are many people that swear that there are differences. Possibly the arrow of causation (in both cases) points in the other direction - lowlifes who behave badly are attracted to one kind of (usually cheap) alcohol (or meth) so it is assumed that their favorite alcohol causes bad behavior whereas a drink favored by the rich is considered to be a more mellow kind of alcohol. But it's also possible that the aldehydes, acetates, methanol and fusel oil that is found in cheap distillates where they fail to separate out the "heads" and "tails" influences the experience and so does whatever contaminants (accidentally or intentionally introduced) are found in Mexican P2P street meth.

    , @Carol
    @Zero Philosopher

    Interesting but Steve is simply relating what Quinones has written so maybe you should take it him with him and his sources.

    Anyway I think the bottom line is that the newer labs are yielding purer product with no ephedrine supply bottleneck.

    , @That Would Be Telling
    @Zero Philosopher

    Now wait a second. First you tell us:


    methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another.
     
    But in the next sentence you say:

    In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is “weaker” than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine.
     
    So not counting impurities or adding other stuff to it as mentioned by Jack D. for example, right off the bat we're talking about different drugs, racemic vs. only right handed. Which might cause different results in the people who take them.

    Really, your screed reduces to "this is the 'classic; way meth was made starting decades ago, so technically it's not 'new' and iSteve is a poopy head for not being an organic chemistry historian," and the usual hatred of the Right we expect from people who think they're scoring points with such nonsense.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Zero Philosopher

    , @Captain Tripps
    @Zero Philosopher

    https://youtu.be/oCIo4MCO-_U

    , @Rob
    @Zero Philosopher

    Has anyone tried feeding mice huge doses of L-methamphetamine to mice to see if it causes serious brain damage? Or racemic meth vs equal (or half the dose) of D-amphetamine to see if racemic meth causes more brain damage?

    When users are given racemic meth, do they use twice the dose, or does the parasympathetic effect of L seem somewhat satisfying to them? Has this ever been tested in the lab? I can this not passing an ethics board for human experimentation.

    It could just be that meth today is so much cheaper than people who would have had to take a weekend off meth after being awake for five days can now be awake for a few weeks straight.

    Oh, duh. “Biker meth” can be more potent than “Sudafed meth,” if the latter was a lot less pure. 50% racemic meth has more D isomer than 10% meth of pure D cut with baby formula.

    Those cartels, always with a quality product.

    Or has some brilliant underground chemist figured out how to do the reduction stereospecifically?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Tom Paine
    @Zero Philosopher

    You left wing hippies sure know all about your drugs.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Zero Philosopher

    Yo, Mr. White! Yeah,...........Science, bitches!

    , @Stebbing Heuer
    @Zero Philosopher

    Attack of the "AKSHUALLY, ..." guy.

  11. @Reg Cæsar
    No, no one has slipped you a Mickey or a P2P. The color of France's flag is indeed different from last year's:


    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/pcZcqfzc6yjvjoV2kadqq8-970-80.jpg.webp


    We bet you didn't spot that France has changed its flag design


    You can also blame the French for the annoying practice of automakers giving the wrong vintage year to their products. But don't you dare mess with France's tongue. Her "prescriptivists", "grammar Nazis", or whatever you call them still have some clout:

    The French revolt against 'woke ideology' after a non-binary pronoun is added to a dictionary

    Replies: @El Dato, @Altai, @SafeNow, @Joe Stalin

    This is the french war flag.

    Things are gonna get serious.

    Meanwhile, the Brits have dropped one of their F-35s into the sea. 150 million just like that.

    • Replies: @Escher
    @El Dato

    I hope they took pointers from Apple and Samsung on how to make the hardware water resistant.

    , @Muggles
    @El Dato


    This is the french war flag.

    Things are gonna get serious.
     
    Yes, the Australian Navy better watch out!

    Those nuke subs made to US (not French) specifications will be at risk. In ten years or so when they get built and completed.

    Of course, obsolete by then. Maybe the French Navy will be able to detect them...

    France vs. Australia? That will have to be decided on the tennis courts.
    , @Right_On
    @El Dato

    Meanwhile, the Brits have dropped one of their F-35s into the sea.

    A veteran Spitfire pilot on the radio said that, back then, prospective RAF fighter pilots were always asked two questions:
    1) Have you ever owned a motorbike?
    2) Do you still have one?
    The correct answers were Yes, and then No.

    If you had ridden a motorcycle it showed you had the balls to handle a dangerous machine. If you no longer rode one, it showed you'd come to realize it was a risky way of getting around. That meant you were unlikely to be a show-off, daredevil pilot and crash an expensive fighter aircraft.

  12. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Left-winger know-it-all farting from all cannons deploying “wall of text” attack?

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Once you get into blue city centers high on cocaine and anti-depressants I wouldn’t so sure.

    • Replies: @WJ
    @El Dato

    The Wall of Text thing is weird trait of spergs. He certainly told us!

    , @Zero Philosopher
    @El Dato

    Hahhaaha...thanks for sharing your deep insight, "El Dato". This response of yours should be archived for posterity, given the amount of wit, the depth of inductive logic you display and your keen ability to get a full perspective of one's psyche and political philosophy from just reading a few paragraphs of text. You have really "shown" me!😂I am disappointed, though, that you didn't call me a tree-hugging, pot-smoking, gun-loathing, Godless, granola-eating, liberal soy boy. I am disappointed here. Maybe I should work harder to deserve the full spectrum of conservative insults. 😢

    , @Clyde
    @El Dato


    Once you get into blue city centers high on cocaine and anti-depressants, I wouldn’t so sure.
     
    Aren't half the adult women on anti-depressants in NYC and LA?
    , @Brutusale
    @El Dato

    The girlfriend has 17 other nurses in her department. Twelve of them have 'fessed up to being on SSRIs or benzos, including all of those under 40. The girlfriend and one of the other non-druggies were the only Trump voters.

    The Left, especially its distaff members, loves its drugs.

  13. Steve is quite correct about the recipe being different, with a Mexican connection. Specifically, meth is contaminated with potent Fentanyl. This is stated in a NIDA report, Sept. 21, 2021. There are also stark differences in usage patterns. I cannot tell how often that different recipe, comprising meth + fentanyl, is a principal culprit, or cofactor, without having access to the underlying data. But Steve is correct about a recipe change, a harsh comment to the contrary notwithstanding.

    https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-releases/2021/09/methamphetamine-involved-overdose-deaths-nearly-tripled-between-2015-to-2019-nih-study-finds

    “In addition to heroin, methamphetamine and cocaine are becoming more dangerous due to contamination with highly potent fentanyl, and increases in higher risk use patterns” — a quote from the above link

    • Replies: @Altai
    @SafeNow

    There's a lot of talk about coke dealers cutting their stuff with fentanyl in order to get their customers extra addicted to 'their stuff'.

    But given how likely that is to kill somebody I'm surprised there has only been one high profile case of kinda famous people dying with that mass poisoning of C list semi-famous comedians recently. I'm sure suppliers to the rich and famous can now make an extra markup from trust that their stuff isn't laced with fentanyl but I am curious about just how common this practice is. Nobody really famous has died from it just yet and you'd think somewhere down the line with such a constellation of irresponsible impulsive people involved in drug dealing and impulsive celebrities that a mistake would be made and a big house party of a rapper turns into a slaughter but no fatalities so far. Which makes me wonder how common this apparently widespread practice is.

  14. @Reg Cæsar
    No, no one has slipped you a Mickey or a P2P. The color of France's flag is indeed different from last year's:


    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/pcZcqfzc6yjvjoV2kadqq8-970-80.jpg.webp


    We bet you didn't spot that France has changed its flag design


    You can also blame the French for the annoying practice of automakers giving the wrong vintage year to their products. But don't you dare mess with France's tongue. Her "prescriptivists", "grammar Nazis", or whatever you call them still have some clout:

    The French revolt against 'woke ideology' after a non-binary pronoun is added to a dictionary

    Replies: @El Dato, @Altai, @SafeNow, @Joe Stalin

    Well the situation is a bit complicated and overblown. Macron has merely changed what flag he has them flying from the Presidential palace. Nobody appeared to have even taken much note for a year.

    France has two official flags, the darker one that has been in use since the revolution and the light one introduced in the late 70s whose blue matches the European flag which hadn’t itself even been officially adopted by any European body at the time.

    The light one is generally only flown from the presidential palace and by private citizens who may like the lighter hue. (You see the lighter a lot at sports events, looks better) The dark one was never out of use and was generally always the one used by the military and government.

    This is totally Macron’s style though, do something trivial to make it seem like you’re out there doing things (Even better if it looks like you’re acting against type and are a true nationalist!) and changing things up while letting serious policies issues go unchanged. He is quite sensitive to his image as an impotent hollowman who will be the last president from the current French political establishment. Mainly because these things are absolutely true and he does represent the end of the line of the current French political consensus which offers no answers for any of France’s pressing issues.

    • Thanks: Muggles
  15. A nation of retards.

    • Agree: Voltarde, kaganovitch
    • Replies: @Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The people who say they never read come out of the Hispanic families who migrated into the U.S. since the 1980s. They're here in numbers large enough that they're the ones skewing the statistics. Hispanics average 90 points of IQ. People of that ilk find reading hard, and they avoid it.

    Whites may read a little less than they used to, but I doubt white reading rates have dropped much. Maybe among white males playing video games, but in the 1980s, many white male teens would have been out playing sports, hanging out with their friends, working a part-time job, or watching TV instead of reading, so I suspect even their reading rates haven't changed much.

    , @Alice in Wonderland
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Every effortful activity?


    I dunno.


    Video games are actually pretty hard, and lots of teens put considerable effort into them.

    I hate fiction, so I see video gaming as no different from wasting one's time reading fiction.

  16. @Reg Cæsar
    No, no one has slipped you a Mickey or a P2P. The color of France's flag is indeed different from last year's:


    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/pcZcqfzc6yjvjoV2kadqq8-970-80.jpg.webp


    We bet you didn't spot that France has changed its flag design


    You can also blame the French for the annoying practice of automakers giving the wrong vintage year to their products. But don't you dare mess with France's tongue. Her "prescriptivists", "grammar Nazis", or whatever you call them still have some clout:

    The French revolt against 'woke ideology' after a non-binary pronoun is added to a dictionary

    Replies: @El Dato, @Altai, @SafeNow, @Joe Stalin

    Speaking of changing the color. Two days ago The Wall Street Journal ran a long, technical analysis of Steph Curry’s shooting-practice methods. The accompanying large photo was adjusted to make his skin appear darker than it is in real life. (Actually, a dark bronzing; it made him look Hispanic, rather than extra-black.) Maybe the idea was that, when the topic is refining shooting dynamics, it takes a person of color to figure it out. The WSJ is very strongly pro-migration.

  17. Underclass drugs usually have a higher-class equivalent, one that frequently requires a doctor as a gatekeeper so one does not go too overboard. The classier version of methamphetamine is Adderall. Scott Alexander has written about gatekeeping Adderall from the physician’s perspective. Search it yourself if you’re interested.

    Adderall use is normal in the college crowd. Even very good girls have their “study buddies” to get them through papers and exams. These kids don’t suddenly stop when they reach the working world. The thing about Adderall is that it works. So everyone has to use it to keep up with the jonesing, so to speak.

    [MORE]

    But there is a cwtch with stimulants. You’ll get the paper written, but it might be unhinged. Tunnel vision is very common with stimulants. Reasoning sort of autistically from premises is also common. I can totally see the great awokening being fueled in part by Adderall.

    As for Antifa. I think I read somewhere that the earliest violence in genocide is often by criminals and “militia” so that political leaders can avoid blame. Who is Antifa’s Brother Number One? The fact that the media and government are utterly uninterested in Antifa, to the extent that the FBI grand gazoom said that right-wingers were the number one terror threat while Antifa was rioting and looting says that Antifa is a tool of the government it can use while avoiding blame or that pesky Constitution.

    In addition to being able to use Antifa to terrorize cities and states into voting democratic “or else” Antifa also lets the establishment co-opt elements that might be mobilized against it.

    Didn’t Lefty Grosskrust testify he had attended forty-odd riots in 2020? Antifa might be smaller than they claim to be. It also supports the “right-wing conspiracy theory” that left-wing rioters are transported from riot to riot by… some means. According to the Antifa Wikipedia article, all rumors of Antifa-filled vans, buses, and planes were “right-wing disinformation, one wonders how Lefty moved from one riot to the next.

    Also according to the wiki article, all Antifa involvement in the 2020 rolling riots were false flags. I wonder, how can a non-organization with no hierarchy and no membership have “false Antifa accounts” on Facebook or Twitter? Let’s say I start a knitting account on Twitter snd start sending out tweets about knitting, how can that be a “false knitting account”? I can see how I could falsely claim to be one of the world’s best knitters or claim to represent 10,000 knitters when it’s just me and my cat. But if I don’t do that and just put out “punch a sewer today” tweets, how can I be a “false knitting account”?

    I really do not understand how every rightist “terrorist” can be the leader of ten one-man international networks, while Antifa has no members. If rightists started claiming to be anarchists, would they stop with the conspiracy charges? Like, can I, not “start an organization” but put out into the ether a Protifa movement. “We” means a bunch of autonomous sovereign persons, not a group. We are pro-white sovereignty, but not “supremacist.” Sometimes “our” cells put up posters, and sometimes we “pro-actively disrupt anti-white demonstrations or protests. But while we do not eschew violence in defense of white interests in principle, we do not condone any pro-white violence. Anyone who claims to be a Protifa and engages in violence is not a Protifa member… Do you think the FBI would let us get away with that? The same FBI that spied on Alexandra Elbakyan, the creator of Sci-Hub, a woman who would get a Nobel Peace Prize and one of the science Nobels for her contributions to science. A woman who lives in Russia. The same FBI that murdered Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge. The same FBI that burned children alive in Waco, Texas. You think they’d say, “whelp, they have no organization, and say no one engaged in violence is part of their non-organization. Our work is done”?

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Rob


    I really do not understand how every rightist “terrorist” can be the leader of ten one-man international networks, while Antifa has no members.
     
    You packed a lot in your comment here.

    However you are spot on about the cover-up of Antifa.

    Remember for many decades the Hoover run FBI said there was no 'Mafia'.

    Oops.

    Now the James Comey run FBI (and similar deep state drones/Dem stooges) say "there is no Antifa."

    Media happily goes along. No New Yorker, Vanity Fair, Harpers or major news outlet deep reporting on that subject.

    Big Brother has already decreed:

    Nothing to See Here. Those burning cities were a figment of your imagination.
    , @Kratoklastes
    @Rob


    The classier version of methamphetamine is Adderall.
     
    That's arguable.

    Kiddies who use Adderall aren't generally looking to get out of their heads: they are looking to get a period of enhanced focus.

    Kiddies who use meth are looking to get out of their heads - usually to get some reprieve from the realisation that some important part of their life is fucked (I am firmly in the camp that sees 'hard' drug use as an indicator of profound personal unhappiness).

    The midwit version of ephedrine is Adderall; the better-wit version of Adderall is modafinil; the even-better-wit version of modafinil is armodafinil (which contains only the right enantiomer of modafinil).

     • Adderall is used by people who think HTML and CSS are 'software engineering';
     • modafinil is used by uDemy dotheads who self-refer as 'full stack' because they can get phpinfo.php to work on a shared server;
     • armodafinil is used by coders whose workflow is tight enough that they need an edge.

    Adderall gets a lower-III to a solid III; modafinil gets a solid III to a low IV; arma is part of the V arms race.

    (Roman numerals indicate PIAAC level: the median adult fails to reach Level III, and less than 1% of adults get to Level V on both literacy and numeracy).

    Neither moda nor arma, give any 'speed-like' effects. No shakes, teeth-grinding or euphoria: just rock-solid 'flow'-like focus that lasts about 12 hours. Love the stuff.
  18. @Twinkie

    If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories
     
    Hey, it sounds like the members of the mainstream media are on the drug. ;)

    I wonder what will happen to the hurried cannabis decriminalization that occurred in Virginia this past summer, now that there is a new sheriff in town.

    Also, this says that Youngkin won Hispanics in VA 55-43 (and lost blacks 12-88): https://interactives.ap.org/votecast-2021-va/

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Rob, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Prester John, @anon

    The pro-man class uses a lot of Adderall. At least it’s younger members do, but it started before the year 2000 in colleges, so by “younger” I mean in their forties.

  19. How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth…

    You’re getting effect confused with causality.

    The meth didn’t cause anything. The meth is the fuel used by those victorious over us in world war II and its final conclusion today in a meth fueled untermensch uprising, powered and directed by the Übermensch we were taught to worship and die for.

    Except we weren’t taught to think of them as Übermensch. We called them entrepreneurs, innovators, mainstream media and politicians, we were taught to think the future would be lived in a sort of meritocratic utopia where the best would one day guide us productively into a shining forever-after as we were urged to tear down our national borders, decry our past.

    It would all result in one huge worldwide group hug sponsored by the United Nations, with rainbows and unicorns where the evil presence of the Warner Brothers reviled Hitler threatened the world with his unique nationalist darkness; in our combined race blind future all sins would be erased.

    The meth is the very quintessence of what powers the elite who rule over you, just as they did in destroying the advanced Civilisation of the Chinese.

    Imagine this scenario: the Medellin cocaine cartel of Colombia mounts a successful military offensive against the United States, then forces the U.S. to legalize cocaine and allow the cartel to import the drug into five major American cities, unsupervised and untaxed by the U.S. The American government also agrees to let the drug lords govern all Colombian citizens who operate in these cities, plus the U.S. has to pay war reparations of \$100 billion—the Colombians’ cost of waging the war to import cocaine into America. That scenario is of course preposterous and beyond the feverish imagination of the most out-there writers of science fiction. However, a similar situation occurred not once, but twice in China during the nineteenth century. In both cases, however, instead of thuggish Colombian drug dealers, it was the most technologically advanced nation on Earth, Great Britain, that forced similar conditions on China.

    From Sassoon to Sackler, the SS history of the Rise and Fall of the British West.

    “Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” George Santayana

    • Replies: @Gabe Ruth
    @Pat Hannagan

    Considering the current year value of historical victimhood, it's remarkable that the opium wars don't get more play.

    I'd guess the Chinese prefer to get even rather than get mad online. One wonders when that account might be considered settled.

  20. Most armies in history have gone into battle drunk or high, especially the more mob-like barbarian armies; gotta take the edge off charging into near-certain death and danger, so their generals would supply them with enough stuff to get them charging in all crazy like. Do you really think the Gauls, who ran into battle *buck naked*, and right into fortified, murderous walls of crack Roman troops, were completely sober?

    So Antifa getting their mob troops high af for their communist terrorist attacks bespeaks an organized, knowledgeable plan to do so.

    The ChiComs know what they’re doing here, is what I’m saying.

  21. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to…..

    Along with 9,999 out of 10,000 of the rest of us folk. Now, stop sperging.

  22. This isn’t meth talking, this is somebody with severe anti-social personality disorder. He sounds like a school yard bully because that’s what school yard bullies are, people with anti-social personality disorder. And unless you went to a really messed up school, I don’t think the bullies at your school were on meth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

    https://www.mentalhelp.net/personality-disorders/cluster-b/

    The Antisocial Personality Disorder* is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of other people that often manifests as hostility and/or aggression. Deceit and manipulation are also central features.

    In many cases hostile-aggressive and deceitful behaviors may first appear during childhood.

    These children may hurt or torment animals or people.
    They may engage in hostile acts such as bullying or intimidating others.
    They may have a reckless disregard for property such as setting fires.
    They often engage in deceit, theft, and other serious violations of standard rules of conduct.
    When this is the case, Conduct Disorder (a juvenile form of Antisocial Personality Disorder) may be an appropriate diagnosis.
    Conduct Disorder is often considered the precursor to an Antisocial Personality Disorder.
    In addition to reckless disregard for others, they often place themselves in dangerous or risky situations.
    They frequently act on impulsive urges without considering the consequences. This difficulty with impulse control results in loss of employment, accidents, legal difficulties, and incarceration.

    Persons with Antisocial Personality Disorder typically do not experience genuine remorse for the harm they cause others. However, they can become quite adept at feigning remorse when it is in their best interest to do so (such as when standing before a judge).

    They take little to no responsibility for their actions. In fact, they will often blame their victims for “causing” their wrong actions, or deserving of their fate. The aggressive features of this personality disorder make it stand out among other personality disorders as individuals with this disorder take a unique toll on society.

    Though granted, such individuals are also apt to substance use and abuse, it is not necessary for their aggressive and reckless actions, particularly when you put them in a mob of others like them who will create weaker and weaker perceived standards of action, escalating to smashing things and people up and setting fires.

    The chief content of Andy Ngo’s Twitter is ultimately just documenting people with anti-social and border line personality disorder doing their thing with a political slant.

    Social media is the ultimate platform for people with cluster B disorders, particularly narcissists but BPDers have created a vast array of weird subcultures that cater to them.

    • Replies: @Zoos
    @Altai


    This isn’t meth talking, this is somebody with severe anti-social personality disorder.
     
    I’ll just leave this right here…

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461467149151703048?s=20
    , @nebulafox
    @Altai

    Social media is *creating* more personality disorders.

    Not to go all Luddite, but I occasionally wonder if the pace of information technology is outstripped what our brains have evolved to handle, on a neurological level. We're not machines, we can only parse so much accurately under normal conditions.

    Replies: @Altai

    , @Clyde
    @Altai


    Social media is the ultimate platform for people with cluster B disorders, particularly narcissists but BPDers have created a vast array of weird subcultures that cater to them.
     
    That's a relief! I must not be in cluster B. I have a Twitter account, but post only 2 times per month. Having a Twit account is useful, to get quickly to the Twitter people you like to read, such as Andy_NGO or Dave Portnoy etc.
  23. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    I thought the classic precursor was this, MEK. I’m pretty sure in the UK sales have to be reported.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanone

    Butanone is listed as a Table II precursor under the United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances.

    On topic, my impression is there’s quite a distance between “fighting on the streets” antifa and “wear the tshirt” antifa. Student types these days aren’t heavily into amphetamines except perhaps at exam time.

  24. ‘I DON’T KNOW THAT I WOULD EVEN CALL IT METH ANYMORE’
    Different chemically than it was a decade ago, the drug is creating a wave of severe mental illness and worsening America’s homelessness problem.

    By Sam Quinones
    OCTOBER 18, 2021
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/

    • Thanks: Inquiring Mind
  25. @SafeNow
    Steve is quite correct about the recipe being different, with a Mexican connection. Specifically, meth is contaminated with potent Fentanyl. This is stated in a NIDA report, Sept. 21, 2021. There are also stark differences in usage patterns. I cannot tell how often that different recipe, comprising meth + fentanyl, is a principal culprit, or cofactor, without having access to the underlying data. But Steve is correct about a recipe change, a harsh comment to the contrary notwithstanding.

    https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-releases/2021/09/methamphetamine-involved-overdose-deaths-nearly-tripled-between-2015-to-2019-nih-study-finds

    “In addition to heroin, methamphetamine and cocaine are becoming more dangerous due to contamination with highly potent fentanyl, and increases in higher risk use patterns” — a quote from the above link

    Replies: @Altai

    There’s a lot of talk about coke dealers cutting their stuff with fentanyl in order to get their customers extra addicted to ‘their stuff’.

    But given how likely that is to kill somebody I’m surprised there has only been one high profile case of kinda famous people dying with that mass poisoning of C list semi-famous comedians recently. I’m sure suppliers to the rich and famous can now make an extra markup from trust that their stuff isn’t laced with fentanyl but I am curious about just how common this practice is. Nobody really famous has died from it just yet and you’d think somewhere down the line with such a constellation of irresponsible impulsive people involved in drug dealing and impulsive celebrities that a mistake would be made and a big house party of a rapper turns into a slaughter but no fatalities so far. Which makes me wonder how common this apparently widespread practice is.

  26. Gaige Grosskreutz was definitely on something during his media tour.

  27. @Altai
    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461486743044165642

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461488020734029826

    This isn't meth talking, this is somebody with severe anti-social personality disorder. He sounds like a school yard bully because that's what school yard bullies are, people with anti-social personality disorder. And unless you went to a really messed up school, I don't think the bullies at your school were on meth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

    https://www.mentalhelp.net/personality-disorders/cluster-b/


    The Antisocial Personality Disorder* is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of other people that often manifests as hostility and/or aggression. Deceit and manipulation are also central features.

    In many cases hostile-aggressive and deceitful behaviors may first appear during childhood.

    These children may hurt or torment animals or people.
    They may engage in hostile acts such as bullying or intimidating others.
    They may have a reckless disregard for property such as setting fires.
    They often engage in deceit, theft, and other serious violations of standard rules of conduct.
    When this is the case, Conduct Disorder (a juvenile form of Antisocial Personality Disorder) may be an appropriate diagnosis.
    Conduct Disorder is often considered the precursor to an Antisocial Personality Disorder.
    In addition to reckless disregard for others, they often place themselves in dangerous or risky situations.
    They frequently act on impulsive urges without considering the consequences. This difficulty with impulse control results in loss of employment, accidents, legal difficulties, and incarceration.

    Persons with Antisocial Personality Disorder typically do not experience genuine remorse for the harm they cause others. However, they can become quite adept at feigning remorse when it is in their best interest to do so (such as when standing before a judge).

    They take little to no responsibility for their actions. In fact, they will often blame their victims for "causing" their wrong actions, or deserving of their fate. The aggressive features of this personality disorder make it stand out among other personality disorders as individuals with this disorder take a unique toll on society.
     
    Though granted, such individuals are also apt to substance use and abuse, it is not necessary for their aggressive and reckless actions, particularly when you put them in a mob of others like them who will create weaker and weaker perceived standards of action, escalating to smashing things and people up and setting fires.

    The chief content of Andy Ngo's Twitter is ultimately just documenting people with anti-social and border line personality disorder doing their thing with a political slant.

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461311640993939458

    Social media is the ultimate platform for people with cluster B disorders, particularly narcissists but BPDers have created a vast array of weird subcultures that cater to them.

    Replies: @Zoos, @nebulafox, @Clyde

    This isn’t meth talking, this is somebody with severe anti-social personality disorder.

    I’ll just leave this right here…

  28. @El Dato
    @Reg Cæsar

    This is the french war flag.

    Things are gonna get serious.

    Meanwhile, the Brits have dropped one of their F-35s into the sea. 150 million just like that.

    Replies: @Escher, @Muggles, @Right_On

    I hope they took pointers from Apple and Samsung on how to make the hardware water resistant.

  29. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    This business of “Mexican” amphetamine being more dangerous/potent/paranoiac/stupefying than “classic” amphetamine comes from a long-winded essay by a reporter in Atlantic.

    Try to keep up.

    • Agree: Jim Christian
    • Replies: @Mr Mox
    @Inquiring Mind

    Agree. Steve even included "..according to reporter Sam Quinones..."

    Why we had to be subjected to Zero's longwinded lecture is anybody's guess.

  30. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing “new” about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen.

    Stand aside, “Comic Book Guy”!

    Introducing the meticulous, ever-outraged “Meth Lab Guy.”

  31. How many violent Antifa come from broken homes? They’re not much different than petty criminals, each with a story of dysfunctional beginnings .

    They adopt a political slant, albeit one that conveniently allows them to act out their anti-social tendencies.

    An outcome of this is that you sometimes find good college kids who wear the t-shirts sharing space with creeps from skid row. Just like you had the 1970’s hippies infiltrated by biker trash and ex-cons like Charles Manson, the modern Anti-fash movement is a magnet which brings together high and low.

    The better adjusted kids graduate out to normal lives, and the trash end up regressing to loser-ville.

    • Replies: @Sebastian Hawks
    @beavertales

    I doubt any hardcore addicts were the ones traveling to Minneapolis and Kenosha to riot. These people have important local drug connections in their homeless camps and are not going to venture far from their supply. The will easily join in any local mayhem already in progress and burn a society they resent to the ground. Just expect any political violence that requires planning and foresight not to be initiated by these live for the moment addicts.

  32. @Twinkie

    If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories
     
    Hey, it sounds like the members of the mainstream media are on the drug. ;)

    I wonder what will happen to the hurried cannabis decriminalization that occurred in Virginia this past summer, now that there is a new sheriff in town.

    Also, this says that Youngkin won Hispanics in VA 55-43 (and lost blacks 12-88): https://interactives.ap.org/votecast-2021-va/

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Rob, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Prester John, @anon

    “I wonder what will happen to the hurried cannabis decriminalization that occurred in Virginia this past summer, now that there is a new sheriff in town.”

    Down and out textile/tobacco town Danville, VA (which already has a casino project in the works) will be a boomtown right dead center on the North Carolina state line.

  33. Many years ago, after reverse engineering the most vociferous demands of far left street militants (Antifa et al.), I concluded that the common denominator, and basically the straw that stirs their drink, is a demand for cheap and free of legal consequences illicit dope.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    @countenance


    a demand for cheap and free of legal consequences illicit dope.
     
    So at least these wretches seem to be half-cognisant of having serious, basically disabling, probably congenital mental problems. All the big asylums that used to cater to the brainsick were shut and the inmates left to wander the streets years and years back. Constantly and amateurishly self-medicating.

    They should be able to register with pharmacies and get as much as they want of whatever they want, pure grade, not just methadone and stuff. Ingested on premises, not for resale.
    Or start locking them up in loonybins again. I can remember when all it took was a doctor and two policemen with the correct paperwork to show up at the door (if they had one).
  34. @HammerJack

    If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males.
     
    Really? I'd say that sort of depends on what their objectives are.

    Replies: @James Braxton

    It’s a feature, not a bug as they say.

  35. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    OK Heisenberg, thanks for your input.

    • LOL: Daniel H
  36. But the argument works both ways. The media can just start claiming that all the deplorables promoting race replacement “conspiracy theories” or resisting the jab or questioning COVID “experts” or government more generally are actually demented methheads, and that they probably need to be locked up for their own good.

    For instance, disparaging someone like Alex Jones as a victim of tainted meth abuse seems like a more damaging smear than simply saying he’s a showman or accusing him of being malicious.

  37. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Thank you, I hate when pundits display criminal ignorance of common knowledge like this.

    You mention ADHD meds in connection with meth. There was a really angry commenter at an old blog that was always claiming that Ritalin (possibly a different drug) was chemically identical to meth, which he took as an indication that street meth is systematically poisoned or something.

  38. @El Dato
    @Zero Philosopher

    Left-winger know-it-all farting from all cannons deploying "wall of text" attack?


    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.
     
    Once you get into blue city centers high on cocaine and anti-depressants I wouldn't so sure.

    Replies: @WJ, @Zero Philosopher, @Clyde, @Brutusale

    The Wall of Text thing is weird trait of spergs. He certainly told us!

  39. Whatever the “kids” are taking these days, it’s not like anything I’ve ever seen. It’s turning entire city blocks into scenes from The Walking Dead.

  40. Anon[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    A nation of retards.

    https://twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1461634474081501190

    Replies: @Anon, @Alice in Wonderland

    The people who say they never read come out of the Hispanic families who migrated into the U.S. since the 1980s. They’re here in numbers large enough that they’re the ones skewing the statistics. Hispanics average 90 points of IQ. People of that ilk find reading hard, and they avoid it.

    Whites may read a little less than they used to, but I doubt white reading rates have dropped much. Maybe among white males playing video games, but in the 1980s, many white male teens would have been out playing sports, hanging out with their friends, working a part-time job, or watching TV instead of reading, so I suspect even their reading rates haven’t changed much.

    • Agree: Chester
  41. @Twinkie

    If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories
     
    Hey, it sounds like the members of the mainstream media are on the drug. ;)

    I wonder what will happen to the hurried cannabis decriminalization that occurred in Virginia this past summer, now that there is a new sheriff in town.

    Also, this says that Youngkin won Hispanics in VA 55-43 (and lost blacks 12-88): https://interactives.ap.org/votecast-2021-va/

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Rob, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Prester John, @anon

    “Hey, it sounds like the members of the mainstream media are on the drug. ”

    Maybe, though they sure as hell don’t need it. A lot of them (including most of the staff of the NYT) have already drifted off into the twilight zone.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  42. @Altai
    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461486743044165642

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461488020734029826

    This isn't meth talking, this is somebody with severe anti-social personality disorder. He sounds like a school yard bully because that's what school yard bullies are, people with anti-social personality disorder. And unless you went to a really messed up school, I don't think the bullies at your school were on meth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

    https://www.mentalhelp.net/personality-disorders/cluster-b/


    The Antisocial Personality Disorder* is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of other people that often manifests as hostility and/or aggression. Deceit and manipulation are also central features.

    In many cases hostile-aggressive and deceitful behaviors may first appear during childhood.

    These children may hurt or torment animals or people.
    They may engage in hostile acts such as bullying or intimidating others.
    They may have a reckless disregard for property such as setting fires.
    They often engage in deceit, theft, and other serious violations of standard rules of conduct.
    When this is the case, Conduct Disorder (a juvenile form of Antisocial Personality Disorder) may be an appropriate diagnosis.
    Conduct Disorder is often considered the precursor to an Antisocial Personality Disorder.
    In addition to reckless disregard for others, they often place themselves in dangerous or risky situations.
    They frequently act on impulsive urges without considering the consequences. This difficulty with impulse control results in loss of employment, accidents, legal difficulties, and incarceration.

    Persons with Antisocial Personality Disorder typically do not experience genuine remorse for the harm they cause others. However, they can become quite adept at feigning remorse when it is in their best interest to do so (such as when standing before a judge).

    They take little to no responsibility for their actions. In fact, they will often blame their victims for "causing" their wrong actions, or deserving of their fate. The aggressive features of this personality disorder make it stand out among other personality disorders as individuals with this disorder take a unique toll on society.
     
    Though granted, such individuals are also apt to substance use and abuse, it is not necessary for their aggressive and reckless actions, particularly when you put them in a mob of others like them who will create weaker and weaker perceived standards of action, escalating to smashing things and people up and setting fires.

    The chief content of Andy Ngo's Twitter is ultimately just documenting people with anti-social and border line personality disorder doing their thing with a political slant.

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461311640993939458

    Social media is the ultimate platform for people with cluster B disorders, particularly narcissists but BPDers have created a vast array of weird subcultures that cater to them.

    Replies: @Zoos, @nebulafox, @Clyde

    Social media is *creating* more personality disorders.

    Not to go all Luddite, but I occasionally wonder if the pace of information technology is outstripped what our brains have evolved to handle, on a neurological level. We’re not machines, we can only parse so much accurately under normal conditions.

    • Replies: @Altai
    @nebulafox


    Social media is *creating* more personality disorders.
     
    I'm not so sure. Personality disorders are extremely innate and probably mostly genetic and temperamental. I don't see much evidence social media makes people narcissists, BPDers or anti-social psychos. Those conditions are some of the most nature biased nature/nurture conditions (That observations are made that the parents often have similar disorders is often taken as evidence for nurture but I think iSteve readers can probably think of another arrow of causation) and manifest very early in childhood before any of them get online. Social media is causing a lot of anxiety and depression from increased competition in status comparisons but that isn't the same as making somebody act out like an attention seeker or act violent, doing those kinds of things requires a severe reprogramming. Although social media may provide the audience and platform to make somebody innately disposed to develop more pathological patterns of behaviour it still won't turn somebody who shies away from attention crave it.

    But social media attracts narcissists and narcissists are the best 'players' of the game so they are the most prominent. Social media may make these people seem more numerous than in the past but only because it gives them a platform.

    If they really are increasing then it's more of a Sam Francis style Annarcho Tyranny producing 'freedom for aggression' where antisocial actions and personalities are more tolerated and less sanctioned given the disintegration of society and collectivist values since the 60s making more of them act pathologically without social restraint. Alternatively it could be that people with these 'fast life' r lifestyles have been much more fecund over the same period. The woman being attacked who was attracted to Zac Stacy as a partner and father for her child already had a daughter aged 12. For her generation having a child aged 19/20 would be a sign of cluster B fast life history, as would it being her only child as likely her relationship with her daughter's father was likely rocky given her and probably his cluster B traits.

    I think these two people think the same as me.

    https://twitter.com/HonusWenger/status/1408467937086824451

    https://twitter.com/EmpressKamari/status/1154075594231091200

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

  43. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    I’m guessing that because Mexican P2P meth is made under less than perfect lab conditions, the synthesis is impure and contains other molecules, just as homemade moonshine contains substances other than ethyl alcohol. These other contaminants may (or may not – it might all be just street lore) influence overall experience such that a street P2P meth high is not quite the same as pharmaceutical grade meth high despite the fact that theoretically meth is meth regardless of which synthesis you used to produce it.

    Or may the Mexican meth dealers are intentionally introducing other drugs into their product, either as a way to reduce their costs or in order to give their product an extra kick and these other drugs account for the differing behavior of P2P meth addicts.

    To put this in terms that the average person can relate to, there is a lot of lore around different kinds of booze and which ones tend to make people “angry drunks” vs “mellow drunks”. Now, in theory, ethanol is ethanol, but there are many people that swear that there are differences. Possibly the arrow of causation (in both cases) points in the other direction – lowlifes who behave badly are attracted to one kind of (usually cheap) alcohol (or meth) so it is assumed that their favorite alcohol causes bad behavior whereas a drink favored by the rich is considered to be a more mellow kind of alcohol. But it’s also possible that the aldehydes, acetates, methanol and fusel oil that is found in cheap distillates where they fail to separate out the “heads” and “tails” influences the experience and so does whatever contaminants (accidentally or intentionally introduced) are found in Mexican P2P street meth.

  44. @Altai
    Anitfa don't need meth. That's just what it looks like when you gather a bunch of young cluster B fuckups together and they encourage each other and society looks the other way while the media hypes them up. Unrestrained aggression and anger. Guys who tore down Woodstock '99 weren't on meth either.

    By it's nature antifa seems to repel anyone who isn't a cluster B fuckup. The criminal history of the guys Rittenhouse shot don't include any convictions for meth and why would they? Their crimes (Including domestic abuse and, of course in Rosenbaum's case, rape of his nephews) sound pretty typical of extreme anti-social personality disorder which doesn't require drugs like meth to manifest.

    In normal life people like this aren't too common but antifa serves as a kind of collecting ground for them. They're enriched cluster B.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bolshevictim

    I assume that toxicology was done on the people that Rittenhouse shot. Did they find meth or other drugs? I’m guessing that if they did the defense would have tried to introduce this.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    I assume that toxicology was done on the people that Rittenhouse shot. Did they find meth or other drugs? I’m guessing that if they did the defense would have tried to introduce this.
     
    If you have been paying even casual attention to this trial, why would you assume that potentially exculpatory evidence in this case would have been developed by the State, or if developed turned over to the defense?
    , @res
    @Jack D

    Seems reasonable. Hard to be sure though given the non-disclosure on the cases.
    https://www.kenoshacounty.org/377/Medical-Examiners-Office

  45. @Pat Hannagan
    How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth...

    You're getting effect confused with causality.

    The meth didn't cause anything. The meth is the fuel used by those victorious over us in world war II and its final conclusion today in a meth fueled untermensch uprising, powered and directed by the Übermensch we were taught to worship and die for.

    Except we weren't taught to think of them as Übermensch. We called them entrepreneurs, innovators, mainstream media and politicians, we were taught to think the future would be lived in a sort of meritocratic utopia where the best would one day guide us productively into a shining forever-after as we were urged to tear down our national borders, decry our past.

    It would all result in one huge worldwide group hug sponsored by the United Nations, with rainbows and unicorns where the evil presence of the Warner Brothers reviled Hitler threatened the world with his unique nationalist darkness; in our combined race blind future all sins would be erased.

    The meth is the very quintessence of what powers the elite who rule over you, just as they did in destroying the advanced Civilisation of the Chinese.

    Imagine this scenario: the Medellin cocaine cartel of Colombia mounts a successful military offensive against the United States, then forces the U.S. to legalize cocaine and allow the cartel to import the drug into five major American cities, unsupervised and untaxed by the U.S. The American government also agrees to let the drug lords govern all Colombian citizens who operate in these cities, plus the U.S. has to pay war reparations of $100 billion—the Colombians’ cost of waging the war to import cocaine into America. That scenario is of course preposterous and beyond the feverish imagination of the most out-there writers of science fiction. However, a similar situation occurred not once, but twice in China during the nineteenth century. In both cases, however, instead of thuggish Colombian drug dealers, it was the most technologically advanced nation on Earth, Great Britain, that forced similar conditions on China.

    From Sassoon to Sackler, the SS history of the Rise and Fall of the British West.

    "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” George Santayana

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzuJXqgsiSM

    Replies: @Gabe Ruth

    Considering the current year value of historical victimhood, it’s remarkable that the opium wars don’t get more play.

    I’d guess the Chinese prefer to get even rather than get mad online. One wonders when that account might be considered settled.

  46. Left is a brain on meth … right is a brain on math

    • LOL: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Ray P
    @The Alarmist

    The left hand one is more likely to reproduce.

    Calculus isn't sexy.

  47. @Jack D
    @Altai

    I assume that toxicology was done on the people that Rittenhouse shot. Did they find meth or other drugs? I'm guessing that if they did the defense would have tried to introduce this.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @res

    I assume that toxicology was done on the people that Rittenhouse shot. Did they find meth or other drugs? I’m guessing that if they did the defense would have tried to introduce this.

    If you have been paying even casual attention to this trial, why would you assume that potentially exculpatory evidence in this case would have been developed by the State, or if developed turned over to the defense?

  48. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Interesting but Steve is simply relating what Quinones has written so maybe you should take it him with him and his sources.

    Anyway I think the bottom line is that the newer labs are yielding purer product with no ephedrine supply bottleneck.

  49. @nebulafox
    @Altai

    Social media is *creating* more personality disorders.

    Not to go all Luddite, but I occasionally wonder if the pace of information technology is outstripped what our brains have evolved to handle, on a neurological level. We're not machines, we can only parse so much accurately under normal conditions.

    Replies: @Altai

    Social media is *creating* more personality disorders.

    I’m not so sure. Personality disorders are extremely innate and probably mostly genetic and temperamental. I don’t see much evidence social media makes people narcissists, BPDers or anti-social psychos. Those conditions are some of the most nature biased nature/nurture conditions (That observations are made that the parents often have similar disorders is often taken as evidence for nurture but I think iSteve readers can probably think of another arrow of causation) and manifest very early in childhood before any of them get online. Social media is causing a lot of anxiety and depression from increased competition in status comparisons but that isn’t the same as making somebody act out like an attention seeker or act violent, doing those kinds of things requires a severe reprogramming. Although social media may provide the audience and platform to make somebody innately disposed to develop more pathological patterns of behaviour it still won’t turn somebody who shies away from attention crave it.

    But social media attracts narcissists and narcissists are the best ‘players’ of the game so they are the most prominent. Social media may make these people seem more numerous than in the past but only because it gives them a platform.

    If they really are increasing then it’s more of a Sam Francis style Annarcho Tyranny producing ‘freedom for aggression’ where antisocial actions and personalities are more tolerated and less sanctioned given the disintegration of society and collectivist values since the 60s making more of them act pathologically without social restraint. Alternatively it could be that people with these ‘fast life’ r lifestyles have been much more fecund over the same period. The woman being attacked who was attracted to Zac Stacy as a partner and father for her child already had a daughter aged 12. For her generation having a child aged 19/20 would be a sign of cluster B fast life history, as would it being her only child as likely her relationship with her daughter’s father was likely rocky given her and probably his cluster B traits.

    I think these two people think the same as me.

    • Thanks: nebulafox
    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @Altai

    Good points, and I'd add that in terms of '60s behavior from the young, I wonder if these extremely innate personality disorders are no longer getting selected against due to the availability of antibiotics, in the US penicillin in the very first year of the Baby Boomers, 1946.

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Altai

    This may or may not be true, but I think what the OP is getting at is that an environment that nurtures personality disorders rather than discourages them is going to lead to a more pervasive and extreme expressions of them.

    A batty, hysterical woman in the past would be the responsibility of her male relations - whether father or husband - and he would likely be expected to remove her from polite society. Now, hysterical women flock together on social media, and form a substantial constituent group of one of the two great American political parties and their grandiose delusions are a means to excite them for electoral purposes.

  50. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Now wait a second. First you tell us:

    methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another.

    But in the next sentence you say:

    In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is “weaker” than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine.

    So not counting impurities or adding other stuff to it as mentioned by Jack D. for example, right off the bat we’re talking about different drugs, racemic vs. only right handed. Which might cause different results in the people who take them.

    Really, your screed reduces to “this is the ‘classic; way meth was made starting decades ago, so technically it’s not ‘new’ and iSteve is a poopy head for not being an organic chemistry historian,” and the usual hatred of the Right we expect from people who think they’re scoring points with such nonsense.

    • Agree: Captain Tripps, MEH 0910
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @That Would Be Telling

    It's possible but not likely. For many drugs, one isomer will be psychoactive/bioactive and the other won't be at all or will have only a mild effect. In the case of meth, Levomethamphetamine (purposely?) misspelled as Levmetamfetamine is an OTC nasal vasoconstrictor (found in the Vicks Vapo Inhaler) and not a scheduled drug.

    Typically when such a drug is sold in racemic form, they just double the dose to equal the dose of the active isomer. For example, for the allergy drug Cetirizine (Zyrtec), which is racemic, the recommended dose is 10 mg. But (in order to extend the patent protection and for no clinical benefit) they came out with a pill containing only the active enantiomer Levocetirizine (Xyzal) and the recommended dose of that is 5 mg, which is the same amount of Levocetirizine as you were getting by taking 10mg of the racemic drug.

    , @Zero Philosopher
    @That Would Be Telling

    Sigh...what I meant is that the centrally active isomer of meth is the dextro-rotatory one, d-meth. When we say "meth", we are refering only to the "D" isomer, as the "L" one is inactive outside the brain. The "L" isomer is present, for instance, in Vick's inhaler, as the peripheral vasoconstriction that it causes is good for sinusitis and other sinus problems. But it does not produce a "high".

    So when you make meth from P2P, you get 50% "active" meth and 50% "inactive" meth. The "active" meth(dextro-N-methyl-amphetamine) is just as potent as the pure d-meth you can from ephedrine reduction. But the *yield* of P2P synthesis is only 50% of that from ephedrine.

    Sorry for the confusion, but there is no contradiction in what I said. When I said that a molecule is a molecule regardless of how it is made, I was talking about d-meth, which is exactly as potent whether you make it from P2P or from ephedrine. But making it from P2P gives you only 50% of the amount of meth from mol of starting material. Understand? I should have phrased it better. My mistake was using the word "weaker". This is how I should have phrased it:

    "The synthesis of meth from P2P yields only 50% of that from ephedrine, so you need twice the
    dose of meth from P2P than from ephedrine to get equally high."

    My mistake was using the word "weaker", when I should have instead used the expression "more diluted" instead. If you "cut" meth made from ephedrine with baking powder or sugar 50/50, than it will be eqaully as strong as meth made from P2P. Understand how?

    Replies: @Rob

  51. @Altai
    @nebulafox


    Social media is *creating* more personality disorders.
     
    I'm not so sure. Personality disorders are extremely innate and probably mostly genetic and temperamental. I don't see much evidence social media makes people narcissists, BPDers or anti-social psychos. Those conditions are some of the most nature biased nature/nurture conditions (That observations are made that the parents often have similar disorders is often taken as evidence for nurture but I think iSteve readers can probably think of another arrow of causation) and manifest very early in childhood before any of them get online. Social media is causing a lot of anxiety and depression from increased competition in status comparisons but that isn't the same as making somebody act out like an attention seeker or act violent, doing those kinds of things requires a severe reprogramming. Although social media may provide the audience and platform to make somebody innately disposed to develop more pathological patterns of behaviour it still won't turn somebody who shies away from attention crave it.

    But social media attracts narcissists and narcissists are the best 'players' of the game so they are the most prominent. Social media may make these people seem more numerous than in the past but only because it gives them a platform.

    If they really are increasing then it's more of a Sam Francis style Annarcho Tyranny producing 'freedom for aggression' where antisocial actions and personalities are more tolerated and less sanctioned given the disintegration of society and collectivist values since the 60s making more of them act pathologically without social restraint. Alternatively it could be that people with these 'fast life' r lifestyles have been much more fecund over the same period. The woman being attacked who was attracted to Zac Stacy as a partner and father for her child already had a daughter aged 12. For her generation having a child aged 19/20 would be a sign of cluster B fast life history, as would it being her only child as likely her relationship with her daughter's father was likely rocky given her and probably his cluster B traits.

    I think these two people think the same as me.

    https://twitter.com/HonusWenger/status/1408467937086824451

    https://twitter.com/EmpressKamari/status/1154075594231091200

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Good points, and I’d add that in terms of ’60s behavior from the young, I wonder if these extremely innate personality disorders are no longer getting selected against due to the availability of antibiotics, in the US penicillin in the very first year of the Baby Boomers, 1946.

  52. Well, we do know that the Krauts supplied the Wehrmacht with amphetamines for the Blitzkrieg. It would not be surprising if there is some kind of relationship between meth and riots, whether people dose for rioting or that aggressive paranoids are attracted to rioting – or perhaps some of both.

  53. Had a relative get into it, including injections.

    It doesn’t resemble paranoid schizophrenia because the main thing is paranoid delusions. There’s something else that’s rarer and just called delusion disorder whose criteria come much closer to meth side effects.

    Schizophrenia includes a lot of things my relative never had, such as incoherent babbling and lack of emotion.

    He’s off it now. Having people use it openly made it harder to stay off, so he moved to a very rural area.

  54. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

  55. @Altai
    @nebulafox


    Social media is *creating* more personality disorders.
     
    I'm not so sure. Personality disorders are extremely innate and probably mostly genetic and temperamental. I don't see much evidence social media makes people narcissists, BPDers or anti-social psychos. Those conditions are some of the most nature biased nature/nurture conditions (That observations are made that the parents often have similar disorders is often taken as evidence for nurture but I think iSteve readers can probably think of another arrow of causation) and manifest very early in childhood before any of them get online. Social media is causing a lot of anxiety and depression from increased competition in status comparisons but that isn't the same as making somebody act out like an attention seeker or act violent, doing those kinds of things requires a severe reprogramming. Although social media may provide the audience and platform to make somebody innately disposed to develop more pathological patterns of behaviour it still won't turn somebody who shies away from attention crave it.

    But social media attracts narcissists and narcissists are the best 'players' of the game so they are the most prominent. Social media may make these people seem more numerous than in the past but only because it gives them a platform.

    If they really are increasing then it's more of a Sam Francis style Annarcho Tyranny producing 'freedom for aggression' where antisocial actions and personalities are more tolerated and less sanctioned given the disintegration of society and collectivist values since the 60s making more of them act pathologically without social restraint. Alternatively it could be that people with these 'fast life' r lifestyles have been much more fecund over the same period. The woman being attacked who was attracted to Zac Stacy as a partner and father for her child already had a daughter aged 12. For her generation having a child aged 19/20 would be a sign of cluster B fast life history, as would it being her only child as likely her relationship with her daughter's father was likely rocky given her and probably his cluster B traits.

    I think these two people think the same as me.

    https://twitter.com/HonusWenger/status/1408467937086824451

    https://twitter.com/EmpressKamari/status/1154075594231091200

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling, @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    This may or may not be true, but I think what the OP is getting at is that an environment that nurtures personality disorders rather than discourages them is going to lead to a more pervasive and extreme expressions of them.

    A batty, hysterical woman in the past would be the responsibility of her male relations – whether father or husband – and he would likely be expected to remove her from polite society. Now, hysterical women flock together on social media, and form a substantial constituent group of one of the two great American political parties and their grandiose delusions are a means to excite them for electoral purposes.

  56. @JohnnyWalker123
    A nation of retards.

    https://twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1461634474081501190

    Replies: @Anon, @Alice in Wonderland

    Every effortful activity?

    I dunno.

    Video games are actually pretty hard, and lots of teens put considerable effort into them.

    I hate fiction, so I see video gaming as no different from wasting one’s time reading fiction.

  57. anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:

    Drug use is definitely a part of the lifestyle of this entire class of people. It’s not necessarily just this particular drug although it seems to promote the violent outbursts that end up with some sort of police action. They’re all multiple substance users depending on what’s available that day. Look at the Kenosha lineup where we actually get to know something about them. They were all older men, not teens or naive youth out in the streets but surprisingly well into adulthood. They all had varying degrees of criminal records including domestic violence entailing erratic, impulsive violence. They had no real employment histories of any note, certainly no career prospects, didn’t seem to hold onto whatever they had but just drifted. They were all estranged from society and any family they may have had. All this points to drug use making them drifters. They latched onto a ’cause’ giving them political cover. The adrenaline flow of rioting along with drugs to heighten the experience was certainly an addictive combination. Much more exciting than holding some mundane 9-5 job. Probably free drugs were available at these riot events as an attraction.

  58. @That Would Be Telling
    @Zero Philosopher

    Now wait a second. First you tell us:


    methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another.
     
    But in the next sentence you say:

    In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is “weaker” than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine.
     
    So not counting impurities or adding other stuff to it as mentioned by Jack D. for example, right off the bat we're talking about different drugs, racemic vs. only right handed. Which might cause different results in the people who take them.

    Really, your screed reduces to "this is the 'classic; way meth was made starting decades ago, so technically it's not 'new' and iSteve is a poopy head for not being an organic chemistry historian," and the usual hatred of the Right we expect from people who think they're scoring points with such nonsense.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Zero Philosopher

    It’s possible but not likely. For many drugs, one isomer will be psychoactive/bioactive and the other won’t be at all or will have only a mild effect. In the case of meth, Levomethamphetamine (purposely?) misspelled as Levmetamfetamine is an OTC nasal vasoconstrictor (found in the Vicks Vapo Inhaler) and not a scheduled drug.

    Typically when such a drug is sold in racemic form, they just double the dose to equal the dose of the active isomer. For example, for the allergy drug Cetirizine (Zyrtec), which is racemic, the recommended dose is 10 mg. But (in order to extend the patent protection and for no clinical benefit) they came out with a pill containing only the active enantiomer Levocetirizine (Xyzal) and the recommended dose of that is 5 mg, which is the same amount of Levocetirizine as you were getting by taking 10mg of the racemic drug.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
  59. @Jack D
    @Altai

    I assume that toxicology was done on the people that Rittenhouse shot. Did they find meth or other drugs? I'm guessing that if they did the defense would have tried to introduce this.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @res

    Seems reasonable. Hard to be sure though given the non-disclosure on the cases.
    https://www.kenoshacounty.org/377/Medical-Examiners-Office

  60. @Reg Cæsar
    No, no one has slipped you a Mickey or a P2P. The color of France's flag is indeed different from last year's:


    https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/pcZcqfzc6yjvjoV2kadqq8-970-80.jpg.webp


    We bet you didn't spot that France has changed its flag design


    You can also blame the French for the annoying practice of automakers giving the wrong vintage year to their products. But don't you dare mess with France's tongue. Her "prescriptivists", "grammar Nazis", or whatever you call them still have some clout:

    The French revolt against 'woke ideology' after a non-binary pronoun is added to a dictionary

    Replies: @El Dato, @Altai, @SafeNow, @Joe Stalin

    Sorry, no English subtitles.

  61. @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males.
     
    Yes, the media will heed that call. It's not like they're anti-White or anything.

    Replies: @Muggles

    I’ve never heard of P2P meth though I’m not following that much.

    Methamphetamine has long been known to cause paranoia and subsequent violence, this is not new.

    Perhaps it is now stronger but I doubt it. In the old days the “legal” stuff seemed available.

    “Speed” was widely given in some combat situations and long used by truckers and students to stay awake. Some Vietnam vets were big users.

    My “hippie days” intel from others was to avoid ‘speed freaks” at all costs. Had a bad reputation and wasn’t much used recreationally in my circles. LSD was often cut with that and it kept you up a long time. Not fun when the high wore off.

    Prolonged use just makes one crazier. Now maybe combined with other things more often, though not sure what (“speedball’ famously heroin and meth.)

    Popularity seems to stem from alleged sexual enhancement (for men) initially, though that wears off in a few months, so I read. That is, the Viagra-like effects cease. Bad for your health.

    Generally somewhat addictive and popular with low class criminal elements. Bathtub meth is a popular rural product, though very dangerous to make. Bad teeth effects are due to amateur production processes.

    The neo communist Democrat Party is all of the ‘paranoia inducing” substance I need. Combined with Soviet style ‘journalism’ now rampant in Wokism.

    Most meth users (so I read) tend to be White so perhaps some paranoia is warranted now.

  62. @El Dato
    @Reg Cæsar

    This is the french war flag.

    Things are gonna get serious.

    Meanwhile, the Brits have dropped one of their F-35s into the sea. 150 million just like that.

    Replies: @Escher, @Muggles, @Right_On

    This is the french war flag.

    Things are gonna get serious.

    Yes, the Australian Navy better watch out!

    Those nuke subs made to US (not French) specifications will be at risk. In ten years or so when they get built and completed.

    Of course, obsolete by then. Maybe the French Navy will be able to detect them…

    France vs. Australia? That will have to be decided on the tennis courts.

  63. @Rob
    Underclass drugs usually have a higher-class equivalent, one that frequently requires a doctor as a gatekeeper so one does not go too overboard. The classier version of methamphetamine is Adderall. Scott Alexander has written about gatekeeping Adderall from the physician’s perspective. Search it yourself if you’re interested.

    Adderall use is normal in the college crowd. Even very good girls have their “study buddies” to get them through papers and exams. These kids don’t suddenly stop when they reach the working world. The thing about Adderall is that it works. So everyone has to use it to keep up with the jonesing, so to speak.

    But there is a cwtch with stimulants. You’ll get the paper written, but it might be unhinged. Tunnel vision is very common with stimulants. Reasoning sort of autistically from premises is also common. I can totally see the great awokening being fueled in part by Adderall.

    As for Antifa. I think I read somewhere that the earliest violence in genocide is often by criminals and “militia” so that political leaders can avoid blame. Who is Antifa’s Brother Number One? The fact that the media and government are utterly uninterested in Antifa, to the extent that the FBI grand gazoom said that right-wingers were the number one terror threat while Antifa was rioting and looting says that Antifa is a tool of the government it can use while avoiding blame or that pesky Constitution.

    In addition to being able to use Antifa to terrorize cities and states into voting democratic “or else” Antifa also lets the establishment co-opt elements that might be mobilized against it.

    Didn’t Lefty Grosskrust testify he had attended forty-odd riots in 2020? Antifa might be smaller than they claim to be. It also supports the “right-wing conspiracy theory” that left-wing rioters are transported from riot to riot by... some means. According to the Antifa Wikipedia article, all rumors of Antifa-filled vans, buses, and planes were “right-wing disinformation, one wonders how Lefty moved from one riot to the next.

    Also according to the wiki article, all Antifa involvement in the 2020 rolling riots were false flags. I wonder, how can a non-organization with no hierarchy and no membership have “false Antifa accounts” on Facebook or Twitter? Let’s say I start a knitting account on Twitter snd start sending out tweets about knitting, how can that be a “false knitting account”? I can see how I could falsely claim to be one of the world’s best knitters or claim to represent 10,000 knitters when it’s just me and my cat. But if I don’t do that and just put out “punch a sewer today” tweets, how can I be a “false knitting account”?

    I really do not understand how every rightist “terrorist” can be the leader of ten one-man international networks, while Antifa has no members. If rightists started claiming to be anarchists, would they stop with the conspiracy charges? Like, can I, not “start an organization” but put out into the ether a Protifa movement. “We” means a bunch of autonomous sovereign persons, not a group. We are pro-white sovereignty, but not “supremacist.” Sometimes “our” cells put up posters, and sometimes we “pro-actively disrupt anti-white demonstrations or protests. But while we do not eschew violence in defense of white interests in principle, we do not condone any pro-white violence. Anyone who claims to be a Protifa and engages in violence is not a Protifa member... Do you think the FBI would let us get away with that? The same FBI that spied on Alexandra Elbakyan, the creator of Sci-Hub, a woman who would get a Nobel Peace Prize and one of the science Nobels for her contributions to science. A woman who lives in Russia. The same FBI that murdered Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge. The same FBI that burned children alive in Waco, Texas. You think they’d say, “whelp, they have no organization, and say no one engaged in violence is part of their non-organization. Our work is done”?

    Replies: @Muggles, @Kratoklastes

    I really do not understand how every rightist “terrorist” can be the leader of ten one-man international networks, while Antifa has no members.

    You packed a lot in your comment here.

    However you are spot on about the cover-up of Antifa.

    Remember for many decades the Hoover run FBI said there was no ‘Mafia’.

    Oops.

    Now the James Comey run FBI (and similar deep state drones/Dem stooges) say “there is no Antifa.”

    Media happily goes along. No New Yorker, Vanity Fair, Harpers or major news outlet deep reporting on that subject.

    Big Brother has already decreed:

    Nothing to See Here. Those burning cities were a figment of your imagination.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Thanks: beavertales
  64. @countenance
    Many years ago, after reverse engineering the most vociferous demands of far left street militants (Antifa et al.), I concluded that the common denominator, and basically the straw that stirs their drink, is a demand for cheap and free of legal consequences illicit dope.

    Replies: @Expletive Deleted

    a demand for cheap and free of legal consequences illicit dope.

    So at least these wretches seem to be half-cognisant of having serious, basically disabling, probably congenital mental problems. All the big asylums that used to cater to the brainsick were shut and the inmates left to wander the streets years and years back. Constantly and amateurishly self-medicating.

    They should be able to register with pharmacies and get as much as they want of whatever they want, pure grade, not just methadone and stuff. Ingested on premises, not for resale.
    Or start locking them up in loonybins again. I can remember when all it took was a doctor and two policemen with the correct paperwork to show up at the door (if they had one).

    • Agree: Cortes
  65. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Has anyone tried feeding mice huge doses of L-methamphetamine to mice to see if it causes serious brain damage? Or racemic meth vs equal (or half the dose) of D-amphetamine to see if racemic meth causes more brain damage?

    When users are given racemic meth, do they use twice the dose, or does the parasympathetic effect of L seem somewhat satisfying to them? Has this ever been tested in the lab? I can this not passing an ethics board for human experimentation.

    It could just be that meth today is so much cheaper than people who would have had to take a weekend off meth after being awake for five days can now be awake for a few weeks straight.

    Oh, duh. “Biker meth” can be more potent than “Sudafed meth,” if the latter was a lot less pure. 50% racemic meth has more D isomer than 10% meth of pure D cut with baby formula.

    Those cartels, always with a quality product.

    Or has some brilliant underground chemist figured out how to do the reduction stereospecifically?

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Rob


    Has anyone tried feeding mice huge doses of L-methamphetamine to mice to see if it causes serious brain damage?
     
    Someone must have because L-methamphetamine is approved as an over the counter nasal inhaler.

    Or has some brilliant underground chemist figured out how to do the reduction stereospecifically?
     
    Zero already said that if you start with Sudafed you get only the right hand isomer.
  66. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    You left wing hippies sure know all about your drugs.

  67. @Rob
    Underclass drugs usually have a higher-class equivalent, one that frequently requires a doctor as a gatekeeper so one does not go too overboard. The classier version of methamphetamine is Adderall. Scott Alexander has written about gatekeeping Adderall from the physician’s perspective. Search it yourself if you’re interested.

    Adderall use is normal in the college crowd. Even very good girls have their “study buddies” to get them through papers and exams. These kids don’t suddenly stop when they reach the working world. The thing about Adderall is that it works. So everyone has to use it to keep up with the jonesing, so to speak.

    But there is a cwtch with stimulants. You’ll get the paper written, but it might be unhinged. Tunnel vision is very common with stimulants. Reasoning sort of autistically from premises is also common. I can totally see the great awokening being fueled in part by Adderall.

    As for Antifa. I think I read somewhere that the earliest violence in genocide is often by criminals and “militia” so that political leaders can avoid blame. Who is Antifa’s Brother Number One? The fact that the media and government are utterly uninterested in Antifa, to the extent that the FBI grand gazoom said that right-wingers were the number one terror threat while Antifa was rioting and looting says that Antifa is a tool of the government it can use while avoiding blame or that pesky Constitution.

    In addition to being able to use Antifa to terrorize cities and states into voting democratic “or else” Antifa also lets the establishment co-opt elements that might be mobilized against it.

    Didn’t Lefty Grosskrust testify he had attended forty-odd riots in 2020? Antifa might be smaller than they claim to be. It also supports the “right-wing conspiracy theory” that left-wing rioters are transported from riot to riot by... some means. According to the Antifa Wikipedia article, all rumors of Antifa-filled vans, buses, and planes were “right-wing disinformation, one wonders how Lefty moved from one riot to the next.

    Also according to the wiki article, all Antifa involvement in the 2020 rolling riots were false flags. I wonder, how can a non-organization with no hierarchy and no membership have “false Antifa accounts” on Facebook or Twitter? Let’s say I start a knitting account on Twitter snd start sending out tweets about knitting, how can that be a “false knitting account”? I can see how I could falsely claim to be one of the world’s best knitters or claim to represent 10,000 knitters when it’s just me and my cat. But if I don’t do that and just put out “punch a sewer today” tweets, how can I be a “false knitting account”?

    I really do not understand how every rightist “terrorist” can be the leader of ten one-man international networks, while Antifa has no members. If rightists started claiming to be anarchists, would they stop with the conspiracy charges? Like, can I, not “start an organization” but put out into the ether a Protifa movement. “We” means a bunch of autonomous sovereign persons, not a group. We are pro-white sovereignty, but not “supremacist.” Sometimes “our” cells put up posters, and sometimes we “pro-actively disrupt anti-white demonstrations or protests. But while we do not eschew violence in defense of white interests in principle, we do not condone any pro-white violence. Anyone who claims to be a Protifa and engages in violence is not a Protifa member... Do you think the FBI would let us get away with that? The same FBI that spied on Alexandra Elbakyan, the creator of Sci-Hub, a woman who would get a Nobel Peace Prize and one of the science Nobels for her contributions to science. A woman who lives in Russia. The same FBI that murdered Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge. The same FBI that burned children alive in Waco, Texas. You think they’d say, “whelp, they have no organization, and say no one engaged in violence is part of their non-organization. Our work is done”?

    Replies: @Muggles, @Kratoklastes

    The classier version of methamphetamine is Adderall.

    That’s arguable.

    Kiddies who use Adderall aren’t generally looking to get out of their heads: they are looking to get a period of enhanced focus.

    Kiddies who use meth are looking to get out of their heads – usually to get some reprieve from the realisation that some important part of their life is fucked (I am firmly in the camp that sees ‘hard’ drug use as an indicator of profound personal unhappiness).

    The midwit version of ephedrine is Adderall; the better-wit version of Adderall is modafinil; the even-better-wit version of modafinil is armodafinil (which contains only the right enantiomer of modafinil).

     • Adderall is used by people who think HTML and CSS are ‘software engineering’;
     • modafinil is used by uDemy dotheads who self-refer as ‘full stack’ because they can get phpinfo.php to work on a shared server;
     • armodafinil is used by coders whose workflow is tight enough that they need an edge.

    Adderall gets a lower-III to a solid III; modafinil gets a solid III to a low IV; arma is part of the V arms race.

    (Roman numerals indicate PIAAC level: the median adult fails to reach Level III, and less than 1% of adults get to Level V on both literacy and numeracy).

    Neither moda nor arma, give any ‘speed-like’ effects. No shakes, teeth-grinding or euphoria: just rock-solid ‘flow’-like focus that lasts about 12 hours. Love the stuff.

    • Agree: nebulafox
    • Thanks: Tony massey
  68. @El Dato
    @Reg Cæsar

    This is the french war flag.

    Things are gonna get serious.

    Meanwhile, the Brits have dropped one of their F-35s into the sea. 150 million just like that.

    Replies: @Escher, @Muggles, @Right_On

    Meanwhile, the Brits have dropped one of their F-35s into the sea.

    A veteran Spitfire pilot on the radio said that, back then, prospective RAF fighter pilots were always asked two questions:
    1) Have you ever owned a motorbike?
    2) Do you still have one?
    The correct answers were Yes, and then No.

    If you had ridden a motorcycle it showed you had the balls to handle a dangerous machine. If you no longer rode one, it showed you’d come to realize it was a risky way of getting around. That meant you were unlikely to be a show-off, daredevil pilot and crash an expensive fighter aircraft.

  69. This is all very well. But whatabout AntifFa and Math?

  70. @The Alarmist
    Left is a brain on meth ... right is a brain on math


    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hMc3b967VqU/UVdmYaWs1WI/AAAAAAAACRI/_o5Yyy74yj8/s1600/Math+brain+versus+normal+brain.png

    Replies: @Ray P

    The left hand one is more likely to reproduce.

    Calculus isn’t sexy.

  71. @That Would Be Telling
    @Zero Philosopher

    Now wait a second. First you tell us:


    methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another.
     
    But in the next sentence you say:

    In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is “weaker” than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine.
     
    So not counting impurities or adding other stuff to it as mentioned by Jack D. for example, right off the bat we're talking about different drugs, racemic vs. only right handed. Which might cause different results in the people who take them.

    Really, your screed reduces to "this is the 'classic; way meth was made starting decades ago, so technically it's not 'new' and iSteve is a poopy head for not being an organic chemistry historian," and the usual hatred of the Right we expect from people who think they're scoring points with such nonsense.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Zero Philosopher

    Sigh…what I meant is that the centrally active isomer of meth is the dextro-rotatory one, d-meth. When we say “meth”, we are refering only to the “D” isomer, as the “L” one is inactive outside the brain. The “L” isomer is present, for instance, in Vick’s inhaler, as the peripheral vasoconstriction that it causes is good for sinusitis and other sinus problems. But it does not produce a “high”.

    So when you make meth from P2P, you get 50% “active” meth and 50% “inactive” meth. The “active” meth(dextro-N-methyl-amphetamine) is just as potent as the pure d-meth you can from ephedrine reduction. But the *yield* of P2P synthesis is only 50% of that from ephedrine.

    Sorry for the confusion, but there is no contradiction in what I said. When I said that a molecule is a molecule regardless of how it is made, I was talking about d-meth, which is exactly as potent whether you make it from P2P or from ephedrine. But making it from P2P gives you only 50% of the amount of meth from mol of starting material. Understand? I should have phrased it better. My mistake was using the word “weaker”. This is how I should have phrased it:

    “The synthesis of meth from P2P yields only 50% of that from ephedrine, so you need twice the
    dose of meth from P2P than from ephedrine to get equally high.”

    My mistake was using the word “weaker”, when I should have instead used the expression “more diluted” instead. If you “cut” meth made from ephedrine with baking powder or sugar 50/50, than it will be eqaully as strong as meth made from P2P. Understand how?

    • Replies: @Rob
    @Zero Philosopher

    Ok, so L-meth is an otc(?) drug. Is it snorted or smoked? I guess it is sniffed. What is the daily dose of a Vicks spray/inhaler/whatevs compared to what the typical speedfreak gets in a day? Cuz, y’know drug abusers use a lot of drug.

    A quick googling suggested that a typical “abuser”-tier dose is 50 mg. I assume that D-meth, so double it for users of racemic meth. The half-life is roughly 10 hours. Meth users are notorious for not sleeping, so I’ll ballpark that at 250 mg/day of racemic meth. That’s 125 mg of L-meth, which has a longer half-life in vivo, so meth users are likely building up higher levels of L-meth.

    Another quick googling says Vicks inhalers are 50 mg total. 8 mg/day is a high-end estimate of “used as directed. So, meth addicts are getting 125/8 = 15.525 times the pharmaceutical dose. You say the additional methyl group compared to regular amphetamine makes it more hydrophobic, and it diffuses through cell membranes more easily. I am pretty sure then, that neither isomer is actively transported through the blood-brain barrier. They just seep in. Regardless of the lack of hedonic effect, L-meth is as present in the brain as D-meth, right?

    L-meth does affect the central nervous system, contra your assertion, releasing norepinephrine and epinephrine. The internet hints that L-meth is neurotoxic, I am too lazy to do much searching.

    The latest longer half-life, coupled with recreational drug users’ tendency to maintain a roughly steady-state high, implies that the level of L-meth in the body increases near-constantly over the length of a binge, which, if I understand correctly, might be a month of no sleep and steady methamphetamine use, no?

    So, a typical dose might be 15 times the high-end of legitimate use, coupled with CNS effects, including neurotoxicity. Coupled with D-meth’s neurotoxicity, and long-term, severe sleep deprivation.

    It totally seems possible that racemic meth is worse for one’s brain than pure D-meth. Because it is very plausible, but by no means certain, that a steady binge of x*(D-meth + L-meth) is more neurotoxic than a binge of x*D-meth, it really needs to be empirically investigated. Sooner rather than later, as the lower class and working class are fast becoming a meth-addled underclass. Granted, neoliberalism is largely responsible for immiserating the non-college part of the population. That is unlikely to change, so harm reduction seems like a reasonable course.

    Out of curiosity, what do meth users think of Desoxyn? Is the dose (5mg/pill) too small to bother with, or do they appreciate the cleaner drug?

    I know we here at Steve’s place are liberals’ boogeymen because we realize that the progressive agenda will be smashed against the cold, hard rocks of human biodiversity, but we are neither bible thumpers nor “personal-responsibility-bootstraps” conservatives.

    We are far more pessimistic than that. We recognize that progs have “won” in that America will be a non-white country and will that show those racists cons! Progs, of course, also lose, because they have to live in third-world America, too.

    While Steve may have some details wrong on meth, he has the big picture right: the meth problem is worse than it was twenty years ago, and it was bad then. Furthermore, whatever money is behind Antifa has managed to weaponize street addicts. Rittenhouse put quite the damper on Antifa. He probably delayed a civil war. But the gutter folk will always want fifty bucks, so Antifa will rise again.

    A meth-fueled civil war will be fun for no one. A second American civil war might be the worst thing that has ever happened. America has so many nuclear weapons. Who knows what factions will end up with how many bombs. They might get used. Plus, America, even one filled with 150 million NAMs, is a huge prize for any foreign country. Russia seems poised to benefit greatly. China is also in the mix.

    You know that adage, “when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns? It applies to other things, too. Like “when believing biology real is Nazi, only Nazis will believe biology.” Very few people who understand the realities of the heritability of socially-relevant traits are as good-natured as Steve. He could be the only thing separating us from a reasonable biology-realist government and the alt-right being an alt-Reich. It was only five short years ago that Primary Candidate Trump energized a part of America that has zero political representation but represents a majority of white people. All those crowds chanting “build the wall”? Militias could be crafted from those crowds that would make human hash out of Antifa and whatever gangbangers progs could sweep out of the slums.

    Republicans plus populists could create a livable society. It would be poorer than America is today. Largely because the (prog) capitalist class sold our industrial base to Asia. Chinese want dollars so they buy American assets because Old America was so stable, low inflation, free, and capitalist-friendly.

    New America, though? Much less stable, as 2020’s rolling riots and the eight bullets in Kenosha that stopped them attest, inflation is high in New America. I heard an economist say that inflation is the rate of money buying less. But someone whose income has lost half its value will not be assuaged by “but the money is not getting less valuable right now. There is another possibility much worse than inflation. When the money buys less but wages do not increase. That’s just getting poorer. As for free? Remember wearing a mask for a year in Old America? No one else does, either. The fact that the establishment let up on the lockdowns for FloydFest shows that the CovidCrisis was not motivated solely by a desire to keep us safe. While I support everyone getting voluntarily vaccinated, the fact that so many Americans are against the vaccine is a direct result of vaccination being touted by people who also chant “death to (white) America!” Whatever you think of vaccines, the anti-vax sentiment shows that half the country does not trust the establishment. The elites will not respond by giving us more freedom and behaving more responsibly. Capital friendliness is also going bye-bye as “Americans” who do not have the cognitive ability to see the value of nationalist capitalism. AOC is the vanguard of the socialists. Likely they will be friendly to corporate capitalism as they drive the middle class into penury.

    We can no longer even discuss the reality of America, as the only acceptable “solution” for any problem is dismantling “whiteness.” I, for one, do not trust the ghetto population (average IQ of 75 or so) to separate “whiteness” from whites. I don’t trust Ibram ex-Henry Rogers Kendi to do that either.

    Tl;dr Conservatives R dum! Lol. Look at how progressives (who control every institution in the country) behaved under Orange Man Bad, particularly FloydFest. Do you want these people running everything when their only plan is to put some dumb blacks in everything for “equity”?

    Replies: @Zero Philosopher

  72. @El Dato
    @Zero Philosopher

    Left-winger know-it-all farting from all cannons deploying "wall of text" attack?


    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.
     
    Once you get into blue city centers high on cocaine and anti-depressants I wouldn't so sure.

    Replies: @WJ, @Zero Philosopher, @Clyde, @Brutusale

    Hahhaaha…thanks for sharing your deep insight, “El Dato”. This response of yours should be archived for posterity, given the amount of wit, the depth of inductive logic you display and your keen ability to get a full perspective of one’s psyche and political philosophy from just reading a few paragraphs of text. You have really “shown” me!😂I am disappointed, though, that you didn’t call me a tree-hugging, pot-smoking, gun-loathing, Godless, granola-eating, liberal soy boy. I am disappointed here. Maybe I should work harder to deserve the full spectrum of conservative insults. 😢

  73. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Yo, Mr. White! Yeah,………..Science, bitches!

  74. @Altai
    Anitfa don't need meth. That's just what it looks like when you gather a bunch of young cluster B fuckups together and they encourage each other and society looks the other way while the media hypes them up. Unrestrained aggression and anger. Guys who tore down Woodstock '99 weren't on meth either.

    By it's nature antifa seems to repel anyone who isn't a cluster B fuckup. The criminal history of the guys Rittenhouse shot don't include any convictions for meth and why would they? Their crimes (Including domestic abuse and, of course in Rosenbaum's case, rape of his nephews) sound pretty typical of extreme anti-social personality disorder which doesn't require drugs like meth to manifest.

    In normal life people like this aren't too common but antifa serves as a kind of collecting ground for them. They're enriched cluster B.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Bolshevictim

    …Society looks the other way” including law enforcement. “The criminal history of the guys Rittenhouse shot don’t include any convictions for meth” Of course they don’t, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t using it.

  75. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "How much of the extraordinary behavior of antifa lowlifes in 2020, such as in Kenosha, was due to the newer P2P recipe Mexican meth that according to reporter Sam Quinones tend to induce effects resembling paranoid schizophrenia in users?"

    Steve Sailer, you are showing your absolute ignorance of organic chemistry with this c0mment. P2P, or phenyl-2-propanone, is the *classic* raw material for making both amphetamine and methamphetamine. When German chemists made amphetamine for the first time way, way, way back in 1889, phenyl-2-propanone was the starting material. There is nothing "new" about this. Amphetamine is made by reductively aminating P2P under pressure in the presence of hydrogen. That removes the Oxygen atom from P2P and turns it into amphetamine. Likewise, methamphetamine is made from P2P by combining it with methylamine and then reducing it, again, under pressure with hydrogen. This "catalytic hydrogenation" that, in this case, results in a reducitve alkylation. Again, basic organic chemistry that you seem to be oblivious to. Methamphetamine is nothing more than amphetamine with a methyl group added to it. It is, chemically, N-methyl-amphetamine. "Methylated amphetamine". The addition of the methyl group makes the molecule more active than amphetamine because it is more able to cross the blood-brain barrier as well as cellular membranes. Cell membranes are composed mostly of phospholipids, so the addition of a methyl group to amphetamine makes it more able to enter neurons because it makes the molecule more lipophilic(fat-soluble).

    And methamphetamine made by this method, or by any other method such as the Birch reduction of ephedrine, yields exactly the same molecule with exactly the same effects. It makes no difference whether the molecule is made by one chemical synthesis or another. In fact, if you want to get technical, you can argue that meth made via P2P is "weaker" than that made from ephedrine, because the P2P reduction yields methamphetamine racemate, which is a mixture of both levo-rotatory and dextro-rotatory isomers of meth. The ephedrine reduction, conversely, yields d-methamphetamine. The dextro-rotatory isomer of meth is the more active one, so meth made via P2P will be "weaker" because 50% of it by molar mass will be the levo-rotatory isomer which is only active in the peripheral nervous system and not in the CNS.

    So basically, you are wrong on *all* counts!

    "If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories about evil white males."

    Sigh...all dopaminergic psychostimulants, by definition, can trigger psychosis in overdose or after prolonged use. This is not exclusive to methamphetamine, let alone to meth made via the P2P method(wich is exactly the same molecule as meth made by any other method). Ever heard of "cocaine bugs"?

    Any drug that either releases dopamine and/or inhibits the dopamine transporter has the potential to induce paranoia/psychosis. Like the P2P synthesis of meth, this is nothing new. Cocaine, amphetamine, meth, phenmetrazine, hell, even methylphenidate(given to school children to treat ADHD) can induce psychosis due to excesive stimulation of dopamine receptors.

    Man, your ignorance is astounding! This is the kind of ignorant scare-mongering typical of right-wingers that makes liberals make fun of how stupid you sound.

    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Daniel H, @YetAnotherAnon, @Inquiring Mind, @Zoos, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Gabe Ruth, @Jack D, @Carol, @That Would Be Telling, @Captain Tripps, @Rob, @Tom Paine, @Mr. Anon, @Stebbing Heuer

    Attack of the “AKSHUALLY, …” guy.

  76. @Zero Philosopher
    @That Would Be Telling

    Sigh...what I meant is that the centrally active isomer of meth is the dextro-rotatory one, d-meth. When we say "meth", we are refering only to the "D" isomer, as the "L" one is inactive outside the brain. The "L" isomer is present, for instance, in Vick's inhaler, as the peripheral vasoconstriction that it causes is good for sinusitis and other sinus problems. But it does not produce a "high".

    So when you make meth from P2P, you get 50% "active" meth and 50% "inactive" meth. The "active" meth(dextro-N-methyl-amphetamine) is just as potent as the pure d-meth you can from ephedrine reduction. But the *yield* of P2P synthesis is only 50% of that from ephedrine.

    Sorry for the confusion, but there is no contradiction in what I said. When I said that a molecule is a molecule regardless of how it is made, I was talking about d-meth, which is exactly as potent whether you make it from P2P or from ephedrine. But making it from P2P gives you only 50% of the amount of meth from mol of starting material. Understand? I should have phrased it better. My mistake was using the word "weaker". This is how I should have phrased it:

    "The synthesis of meth from P2P yields only 50% of that from ephedrine, so you need twice the
    dose of meth from P2P than from ephedrine to get equally high."

    My mistake was using the word "weaker", when I should have instead used the expression "more diluted" instead. If you "cut" meth made from ephedrine with baking powder or sugar 50/50, than it will be eqaully as strong as meth made from P2P. Understand how?

    Replies: @Rob

    Ok, so L-meth is an otc(?) drug. Is it snorted or smoked? I guess it is sniffed. What is the daily dose of a Vicks spray/inhaler/whatevs compared to what the typical speedfreak gets in a day? Cuz, y’know drug abusers use a lot of drug.

    A quick googling suggested that a typical “abuser”-tier dose is 50 mg. I assume that D-meth, so double it for users of racemic meth. The half-life is roughly 10 hours. Meth users are notorious for not sleeping, so I’ll ballpark that at 250 mg/day of racemic meth. That’s 125 mg of L-meth, which has a longer half-life in vivo, so meth users are likely building up higher levels of L-meth.

    Another quick googling says Vicks inhalers are 50 mg total. 8 mg/day is a high-end estimate of “used as directed. So, meth addicts are getting 125/8 = 15.525 times the pharmaceutical dose. You say the additional methyl group compared to regular amphetamine makes it more hydrophobic, and it diffuses through cell membranes more easily. I am pretty sure then, that neither isomer is actively transported through the blood-brain barrier. They just seep in. Regardless of the lack of hedonic effect, L-meth is as present in the brain as D-meth, right?

    L-meth does affect the central nervous system, contra your assertion, releasing norepinephrine and epinephrine. The internet hints that L-meth is neurotoxic, I am too lazy to do much searching.

    The latest longer half-life, coupled with recreational drug users’ tendency to maintain a roughly steady-state high, implies that the level of L-meth in the body increases near-constantly over the length of a binge, which, if I understand correctly, might be a month of no sleep and steady methamphetamine use, no?

    So, a typical dose might be 15 times the high-end of legitimate use, coupled with CNS effects, including neurotoxicity. Coupled with D-meth’s neurotoxicity, and long-term, severe sleep deprivation.

    It totally seems possible that racemic meth is worse for one’s brain than pure D-meth. Because it is very plausible, but by no means certain, that a steady binge of x*(D-meth + L-meth) is more neurotoxic than a binge of x*D-meth, it really needs to be empirically investigated. Sooner rather than later, as the lower class and working class are fast becoming a meth-addled underclass. Granted, neoliberalism is largely responsible for immiserating the non-college part of the population. That is unlikely to change, so harm reduction seems like a reasonable course.

    Out of curiosity, what do meth users think of Desoxyn? Is the dose (5mg/pill) too small to bother with, or do they appreciate the cleaner drug?

    [MORE]

    I know we here at Steve’s place are liberals’ boogeymen because we realize that the progressive agenda will be smashed against the cold, hard rocks of human biodiversity, but we are neither bible thumpers nor “personal-responsibility-bootstraps” conservatives.

    We are far more pessimistic than that. We recognize that progs have “won” in that America will be a non-white country and will that show those racists cons! Progs, of course, also lose, because they have to live in third-world America, too.

    While Steve may have some details wrong on meth, he has the big picture right: the meth problem is worse than it was twenty years ago, and it was bad then. Furthermore, whatever money is behind Antifa has managed to weaponize street addicts. Rittenhouse put quite the damper on Antifa. He probably delayed a civil war. But the gutter folk will always want fifty bucks, so Antifa will rise again.

    A meth-fueled civil war will be fun for no one. A second American civil war might be the worst thing that has ever happened. America has so many nuclear weapons. Who knows what factions will end up with how many bombs. They might get used. Plus, America, even one filled with 150 million NAMs, is a huge prize for any foreign country. Russia seems poised to benefit greatly. China is also in the mix.

    You know that adage, “when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns? It applies to other things, too. Like “when believing biology real is Nazi, only Nazis will believe biology.” Very few people who understand the realities of the heritability of socially-relevant traits are as good-natured as Steve. He could be the only thing separating us from a reasonable biology-realist government and the alt-right being an alt-Reich. It was only five short years ago that Primary Candidate Trump energized a part of America that has zero political representation but represents a majority of white people. All those crowds chanting “build the wall”? Militias could be crafted from those crowds that would make human hash out of Antifa and whatever gangbangers progs could sweep out of the slums.

    Republicans plus populists could create a livable society. It would be poorer than America is today. Largely because the (prog) capitalist class sold our industrial base to Asia. Chinese want dollars so they buy American assets because Old America was so stable, low inflation, free, and capitalist-friendly.

    New America, though? Much less stable, as 2020’s rolling riots and the eight bullets in Kenosha that stopped them attest, inflation is high in New America. I heard an economist say that inflation is the rate of money buying less. But someone whose income has lost half its value will not be assuaged by “but the money is not getting less valuable right now. There is another possibility much worse than inflation. When the money buys less but wages do not increase. That’s just getting poorer. As for free? Remember wearing a mask for a year in Old America? No one else does, either. The fact that the establishment let up on the lockdowns for FloydFest shows that the CovidCrisis was not motivated solely by a desire to keep us safe. While I support everyone getting voluntarily vaccinated, the fact that so many Americans are against the vaccine is a direct result of vaccination being touted by people who also chant “death to (white) America!” Whatever you think of vaccines, the anti-vax sentiment shows that half the country does not trust the establishment. The elites will not respond by giving us more freedom and behaving more responsibly. Capital friendliness is also going bye-bye as “Americans” who do not have the cognitive ability to see the value of nationalist capitalism. AOC is the vanguard of the socialists. Likely they will be friendly to corporate capitalism as they drive the middle class into penury.

    We can no longer even discuss the reality of America, as the only acceptable “solution” for any problem is dismantling “whiteness.” I, for one, do not trust the ghetto population (average IQ of 75 or so) to separate “whiteness” from whites. I don’t trust Ibram ex-Henry Rogers Kendi to do that either.

    Tl;dr Conservatives R dum! Lol. Look at how progressives (who control every institution in the country) behaved under Orange Man Bad, particularly FloydFest. Do you want these people running everything when their only plan is to put some dumb blacks in everything for “equity”?

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
    @Rob

    L-methamphetamine is not centrally active at releasing dopamine, which is why it is not addictive and why it is not a controlled substance. And even it's noradrenergic activity is mostly restricted to the peripheral nervous sytem with only minor releases of norepinephrine from storage vesicles. So you'll get nothing out of using levo-methaphetamine except for a brutal headache when the efrfect wears off and your blood vessels dilate.

    Both meth isomers are neurotoxic, and the dextro-rotatory one is actually more. When dopamine is released, it is broken by the two monoamine oxidase enzymes, resulting in the creation of hydrogen peroxide and superoxide anion, both of which poison the mitochondria of neurons killing them. Using meth dramatically increases your odds of developing Parkinson's Disease. Meth also causes a strong inffammatory response in the brain involving cytokines, which makes your immune sysem attack your brain. Worse, it raises body temperature, which also damages the brain. Parkinson's Disease and senility are real consequences of heavy chronic use of meth.m If start using meth in your twenties heavily, but 45 you'll have the brain of an 85 year-old.

    As for what you said regarding politics, I do agree that liberalism has gone too far, and that "Wokeness" has nothing to do with classical liberalism. Classical liberalism respects private property, individual rights and believes that the government should create equality of *opportunities* and not equality of *results* . Wokeness is pure Marxism which has replaced class with "race". It's pure hatred of white people out of envy and spite, and I certainly don't agree with that. Liberals want equality of *opportunity* , while Marxists want equality of *outcomes* . That is a jey difference that conservatives make when confusing liberals with Marxists. I know that conservatives hate both, but the point is that there is a clear distinction between them. "Wokeness" is neo-Marxism, not liberalism.

    As for America becoming a non-white country..well, if you go back to the 1930's, many old family Americans protested lifting restrictions on the immigration of southern and eastern Europeans, as they were considered inferior to northwestern European stock. And even before that, going to the mid 1850's, WASPs complained about the immigration of Germans and Scandinavians on the grounds that they were inferior to Anglo-Saxons. Everybody thinks that they are better than everybody. That is Human nature. The problem with a lot of immigrants entering America now is not that they are non-white, but that they are uneducated and many might have criminal records back home. Immigration standards tended to be better.

  77. Steve didn’t assert anything accurate or inaccurate about chemistry. He referenced an expert who did. That expert was working with observations which have nothing to do with baby’s first textbook line drawing of a perfect pure molecule imprisoned with the Platonic forms. The non-dishonest attack to make here was that the guy (who Steve got his “paranoia side effect” idea from) had failed to demonstrate chemical causation. That’s a weak attack because almost nobody ever proves causation anywhere.

  78. @Inquiring Mind
    @Zero Philosopher

    This business of "Mexican" amphetamine being more dangerous/potent/paranoiac/stupefying than "classic" amphetamine comes from a long-winded essay by a reporter in Atlantic.

    Try to keep up.

    Replies: @Mr Mox

    Agree. Steve even included “..according to reporter Sam Quinones…”

    Why we had to be subjected to Zero’s longwinded lecture is anybody’s guess.

  79. @Rob
    @Zero Philosopher

    Has anyone tried feeding mice huge doses of L-methamphetamine to mice to see if it causes serious brain damage? Or racemic meth vs equal (or half the dose) of D-amphetamine to see if racemic meth causes more brain damage?

    When users are given racemic meth, do they use twice the dose, or does the parasympathetic effect of L seem somewhat satisfying to them? Has this ever been tested in the lab? I can this not passing an ethics board for human experimentation.

    It could just be that meth today is so much cheaper than people who would have had to take a weekend off meth after being awake for five days can now be awake for a few weeks straight.

    Oh, duh. “Biker meth” can be more potent than “Sudafed meth,” if the latter was a lot less pure. 50% racemic meth has more D isomer than 10% meth of pure D cut with baby formula.

    Those cartels, always with a quality product.

    Or has some brilliant underground chemist figured out how to do the reduction stereospecifically?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Has anyone tried feeding mice huge doses of L-methamphetamine to mice to see if it causes serious brain damage?

    Someone must have because L-methamphetamine is approved as an over the counter nasal inhaler.

    Or has some brilliant underground chemist figured out how to do the reduction stereospecifically?

    Zero already said that if you start with Sudafed you get only the right hand isomer.

  80. @El Dato
    @Zero Philosopher

    Left-winger know-it-all farting from all cannons deploying "wall of text" attack?


    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.
     
    Once you get into blue city centers high on cocaine and anti-depressants I wouldn't so sure.

    Replies: @WJ, @Zero Philosopher, @Clyde, @Brutusale

    Once you get into blue city centers high on cocaine and anti-depressants, I wouldn’t so sure.

    Aren’t half the adult women on anti-depressants in NYC and LA?

  81. @Altai
    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461486743044165642

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461488020734029826

    This isn't meth talking, this is somebody with severe anti-social personality disorder. He sounds like a school yard bully because that's what school yard bullies are, people with anti-social personality disorder. And unless you went to a really messed up school, I don't think the bullies at your school were on meth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

    https://www.mentalhelp.net/personality-disorders/cluster-b/


    The Antisocial Personality Disorder* is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of other people that often manifests as hostility and/or aggression. Deceit and manipulation are also central features.

    In many cases hostile-aggressive and deceitful behaviors may first appear during childhood.

    These children may hurt or torment animals or people.
    They may engage in hostile acts such as bullying or intimidating others.
    They may have a reckless disregard for property such as setting fires.
    They often engage in deceit, theft, and other serious violations of standard rules of conduct.
    When this is the case, Conduct Disorder (a juvenile form of Antisocial Personality Disorder) may be an appropriate diagnosis.
    Conduct Disorder is often considered the precursor to an Antisocial Personality Disorder.
    In addition to reckless disregard for others, they often place themselves in dangerous or risky situations.
    They frequently act on impulsive urges without considering the consequences. This difficulty with impulse control results in loss of employment, accidents, legal difficulties, and incarceration.

    Persons with Antisocial Personality Disorder typically do not experience genuine remorse for the harm they cause others. However, they can become quite adept at feigning remorse when it is in their best interest to do so (such as when standing before a judge).

    They take little to no responsibility for their actions. In fact, they will often blame their victims for "causing" their wrong actions, or deserving of their fate. The aggressive features of this personality disorder make it stand out among other personality disorders as individuals with this disorder take a unique toll on society.
     
    Though granted, such individuals are also apt to substance use and abuse, it is not necessary for their aggressive and reckless actions, particularly when you put them in a mob of others like them who will create weaker and weaker perceived standards of action, escalating to smashing things and people up and setting fires.

    The chief content of Andy Ngo's Twitter is ultimately just documenting people with anti-social and border line personality disorder doing their thing with a political slant.

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461311640993939458

    Social media is the ultimate platform for people with cluster B disorders, particularly narcissists but BPDers have created a vast array of weird subcultures that cater to them.

    Replies: @Zoos, @nebulafox, @Clyde

    Social media is the ultimate platform for people with cluster B disorders, particularly narcissists but BPDers have created a vast array of weird subcultures that cater to them.

    That’s a relief! I must not be in cluster B. I have a Twitter account, but post only 2 times per month. Having a Twit account is useful, to get quickly to the Twitter people you like to read, such as Andy_NGO or Dave Portnoy etc.

  82. @Rob
    @Zero Philosopher

    Ok, so L-meth is an otc(?) drug. Is it snorted or smoked? I guess it is sniffed. What is the daily dose of a Vicks spray/inhaler/whatevs compared to what the typical speedfreak gets in a day? Cuz, y’know drug abusers use a lot of drug.

    A quick googling suggested that a typical “abuser”-tier dose is 50 mg. I assume that D-meth, so double it for users of racemic meth. The half-life is roughly 10 hours. Meth users are notorious for not sleeping, so I’ll ballpark that at 250 mg/day of racemic meth. That’s 125 mg of L-meth, which has a longer half-life in vivo, so meth users are likely building up higher levels of L-meth.

    Another quick googling says Vicks inhalers are 50 mg total. 8 mg/day is a high-end estimate of “used as directed. So, meth addicts are getting 125/8 = 15.525 times the pharmaceutical dose. You say the additional methyl group compared to regular amphetamine makes it more hydrophobic, and it diffuses through cell membranes more easily. I am pretty sure then, that neither isomer is actively transported through the blood-brain barrier. They just seep in. Regardless of the lack of hedonic effect, L-meth is as present in the brain as D-meth, right?

    L-meth does affect the central nervous system, contra your assertion, releasing norepinephrine and epinephrine. The internet hints that L-meth is neurotoxic, I am too lazy to do much searching.

    The latest longer half-life, coupled with recreational drug users’ tendency to maintain a roughly steady-state high, implies that the level of L-meth in the body increases near-constantly over the length of a binge, which, if I understand correctly, might be a month of no sleep and steady methamphetamine use, no?

    So, a typical dose might be 15 times the high-end of legitimate use, coupled with CNS effects, including neurotoxicity. Coupled with D-meth’s neurotoxicity, and long-term, severe sleep deprivation.

    It totally seems possible that racemic meth is worse for one’s brain than pure D-meth. Because it is very plausible, but by no means certain, that a steady binge of x*(D-meth + L-meth) is more neurotoxic than a binge of x*D-meth, it really needs to be empirically investigated. Sooner rather than later, as the lower class and working class are fast becoming a meth-addled underclass. Granted, neoliberalism is largely responsible for immiserating the non-college part of the population. That is unlikely to change, so harm reduction seems like a reasonable course.

    Out of curiosity, what do meth users think of Desoxyn? Is the dose (5mg/pill) too small to bother with, or do they appreciate the cleaner drug?

    I know we here at Steve’s place are liberals’ boogeymen because we realize that the progressive agenda will be smashed against the cold, hard rocks of human biodiversity, but we are neither bible thumpers nor “personal-responsibility-bootstraps” conservatives.

    We are far more pessimistic than that. We recognize that progs have “won” in that America will be a non-white country and will that show those racists cons! Progs, of course, also lose, because they have to live in third-world America, too.

    While Steve may have some details wrong on meth, he has the big picture right: the meth problem is worse than it was twenty years ago, and it was bad then. Furthermore, whatever money is behind Antifa has managed to weaponize street addicts. Rittenhouse put quite the damper on Antifa. He probably delayed a civil war. But the gutter folk will always want fifty bucks, so Antifa will rise again.

    A meth-fueled civil war will be fun for no one. A second American civil war might be the worst thing that has ever happened. America has so many nuclear weapons. Who knows what factions will end up with how many bombs. They might get used. Plus, America, even one filled with 150 million NAMs, is a huge prize for any foreign country. Russia seems poised to benefit greatly. China is also in the mix.

    You know that adage, “when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns? It applies to other things, too. Like “when believing biology real is Nazi, only Nazis will believe biology.” Very few people who understand the realities of the heritability of socially-relevant traits are as good-natured as Steve. He could be the only thing separating us from a reasonable biology-realist government and the alt-right being an alt-Reich. It was only five short years ago that Primary Candidate Trump energized a part of America that has zero political representation but represents a majority of white people. All those crowds chanting “build the wall”? Militias could be crafted from those crowds that would make human hash out of Antifa and whatever gangbangers progs could sweep out of the slums.

    Republicans plus populists could create a livable society. It would be poorer than America is today. Largely because the (prog) capitalist class sold our industrial base to Asia. Chinese want dollars so they buy American assets because Old America was so stable, low inflation, free, and capitalist-friendly.

    New America, though? Much less stable, as 2020’s rolling riots and the eight bullets in Kenosha that stopped them attest, inflation is high in New America. I heard an economist say that inflation is the rate of money buying less. But someone whose income has lost half its value will not be assuaged by “but the money is not getting less valuable right now. There is another possibility much worse than inflation. When the money buys less but wages do not increase. That’s just getting poorer. As for free? Remember wearing a mask for a year in Old America? No one else does, either. The fact that the establishment let up on the lockdowns for FloydFest shows that the CovidCrisis was not motivated solely by a desire to keep us safe. While I support everyone getting voluntarily vaccinated, the fact that so many Americans are against the vaccine is a direct result of vaccination being touted by people who also chant “death to (white) America!” Whatever you think of vaccines, the anti-vax sentiment shows that half the country does not trust the establishment. The elites will not respond by giving us more freedom and behaving more responsibly. Capital friendliness is also going bye-bye as “Americans” who do not have the cognitive ability to see the value of nationalist capitalism. AOC is the vanguard of the socialists. Likely they will be friendly to corporate capitalism as they drive the middle class into penury.

    We can no longer even discuss the reality of America, as the only acceptable “solution” for any problem is dismantling “whiteness.” I, for one, do not trust the ghetto population (average IQ of 75 or so) to separate “whiteness” from whites. I don’t trust Ibram ex-Henry Rogers Kendi to do that either.

    Tl;dr Conservatives R dum! Lol. Look at how progressives (who control every institution in the country) behaved under Orange Man Bad, particularly FloydFest. Do you want these people running everything when their only plan is to put some dumb blacks in everything for “equity”?

    Replies: @Zero Philosopher

    L-methamphetamine is not centrally active at releasing dopamine, which is why it is not addictive and why it is not a controlled substance. And even it’s noradrenergic activity is mostly restricted to the peripheral nervous sytem with only minor releases of norepinephrine from storage vesicles. So you’ll get nothing out of using levo-methaphetamine except for a brutal headache when the efrfect wears off and your blood vessels dilate.

    Both meth isomers are neurotoxic, and the dextro-rotatory one is actually more. When dopamine is released, it is broken by the two monoamine oxidase enzymes, resulting in the creation of hydrogen peroxide and superoxide anion, both of which poison the mitochondria of neurons killing them. Using meth dramatically increases your odds of developing Parkinson’s Disease. Meth also causes a strong inffammatory response in the brain involving cytokines, which makes your immune sysem attack your brain. Worse, it raises body temperature, which also damages the brain. Parkinson’s Disease and senility are real consequences of heavy chronic use of meth.m If start using meth in your twenties heavily, but 45 you’ll have the brain of an 85 year-old.

    As for what you said regarding politics, I do agree that liberalism has gone too far, and that “Wokeness” has nothing to do with classical liberalism. Classical liberalism respects private property, individual rights and believes that the government should create equality of *opportunities* and not equality of *results* . Wokeness is pure Marxism which has replaced class with “race”. It’s pure hatred of white people out of envy and spite, and I certainly don’t agree with that. Liberals want equality of *opportunity* , while Marxists want equality of *outcomes* . That is a jey difference that conservatives make when confusing liberals with Marxists. I know that conservatives hate both, but the point is that there is a clear distinction between them. “Wokeness” is neo-Marxism, not liberalism.

    As for America becoming a non-white country..well, if you go back to the 1930’s, many old family Americans protested lifting restrictions on the immigration of southern and eastern Europeans, as they were considered inferior to northwestern European stock. And even before that, going to the mid 1850’s, WASPs complained about the immigration of Germans and Scandinavians on the grounds that they were inferior to Anglo-Saxons. Everybody thinks that they are better than everybody. That is Human nature. The problem with a lot of immigrants entering America now is not that they are non-white, but that they are uneducated and many might have criminal records back home. Immigration standards tended to be better.

  83. @beavertales
    How many violent Antifa come from broken homes? They're not much different than petty criminals, each with a story of dysfunctional beginnings .

    They adopt a political slant, albeit one that conveniently allows them to act out their anti-social tendencies.

    An outcome of this is that you sometimes find good college kids who wear the t-shirts sharing space with creeps from skid row. Just like you had the 1970's hippies infiltrated by biker trash and ex-cons like Charles Manson, the modern Anti-fash movement is a magnet which brings together high and low.

    The better adjusted kids graduate out to normal lives, and the trash end up regressing to loser-ville.

    Replies: @Sebastian Hawks

    I doubt any hardcore addicts were the ones traveling to Minneapolis and Kenosha to riot. These people have important local drug connections in their homeless camps and are not going to venture far from their supply. The will easily join in any local mayhem already in progress and burn a society they resent to the ground. Just expect any political violence that requires planning and foresight not to be initiated by these live for the moment addicts.

  84. Is it really “new meth” or just a lot more of it pouring into the country along with a younger generation increasingly distanced from normal family life more likely to fall into these antisocial lifestyles.

  85. @Twinkie

    If there’s a paranoia-inducing drug going around, the mainstream media should be more prudent about spreading paranoia-inducing conspiracy theories
     
    Hey, it sounds like the members of the mainstream media are on the drug. ;)

    I wonder what will happen to the hurried cannabis decriminalization that occurred in Virginia this past summer, now that there is a new sheriff in town.

    Also, this says that Youngkin won Hispanics in VA 55-43 (and lost blacks 12-88): https://interactives.ap.org/votecast-2021-va/

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Rob, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Prester John, @anon

    Also, this says that Youngkin won Hispanics in VA 55-43 (and lost blacks 12-88)

    That’s an unsupported assertion which cuckservatives have been milking for all it’s worth (not much):

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/04/latino-poll-virginia-youngkin-mcauliffe-519425

  86. It does make sense insofar as rioting on heroin would be a lackluster affair.
    Inner city street activists need extra vim and vinegar to throw those rocks,
    loot them stores and burn selected buildings.

    A bit of oomph. Not Captagon but still spicy.

  87. @El Dato
    @Zero Philosopher

    Left-winger know-it-all farting from all cannons deploying "wall of text" attack?


    Also, drug use is a much bigger problem in the Right than in the Left right now. The opiate crisis affects mostly Right-wing conservative voters.
     
    Once you get into blue city centers high on cocaine and anti-depressants I wouldn't so sure.

    Replies: @WJ, @Zero Philosopher, @Clyde, @Brutusale

    The girlfriend has 17 other nurses in her department. Twelve of them have ‘fessed up to being on SSRIs or benzos, including all of those under 40. The girlfriend and one of the other non-druggies were the only Trump voters.

    The Left, especially its distaff members, loves its drugs.

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