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An Uzbek Explains Why the Zeroth Amendment Obligates USA to Have the Diversity Visa Lottery: "No Person Has a Greater Claim to the American Dream Than Any Other"
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From the NYT op-ed page:

We Need the Diversity Visa Lottery
By MACHMUD MAKHMUDOV NOV. 2, 2017

… President Trump placed blame for the attack on the State Department’s “diversity lottery” visa program, through which Mr. Saipov entered this country, and he called for its end. The lottery has few preconditions, but applicants must come from countries with little immigration to America.

It’s a program promoting Family Disunification.

It would be a shame to eliminate it. The program has allowed my family and countless other immigrants to thrive. …

I had always wanted to be a college baseball player and was thrilled when recruiters from Oberlin College in Ohio came knocking. …

My family’s story wouldn’t be possible without the “diversity lottery” program. President Trump’s call to end it does nothing to strengthen our national security. Uzbekistan’s government has willingly helped us fight terrorism. Furthermore, people who enter the United States through the diversity visa program submit to thorough background checks. Although we now know that Mr. Saipov passed his with no red flags, he was reportedly radicalized while in America, not before, a phenomenon no test could screen for.

Oberlin should give out athletic scholarships via lottery. Maybe they do … Wasn’t Lena Dunham the Oberlin Yeomen’s designated hitter in the mid-2000s?

The diversity visa program should also be preserved because, for many people across the globe, a relative or a neighbor who has managed to immigrate to the United States is their only authentic connection with the country.

In other words, the diversity visa lottery establishes beachheads for chain migration. There are, for example, 32 million people in Uzbekistan. Without the diversity visa lottery only a tiny number would ever have wound up here. But due to it, a lot of people in Uzbekistan now have a second cousin in the U.S. to crash with, so immigrating here is a lot more attractive.

This was certainly true for my family. At a time when groups ranging from state-sponsored media to terrorist organizations denounce the United States as “the Great Satan,” America can’t afford to turn its back on an opportunity to portray itself as an open, tolerant and diverse nation.

As it has been explained to you over and over, we have to let in more potential terrorists because if we don’t, that will make the potential terrorists who are already here even more enraged and homicidal toward us than they already are. Why can’t you people grasp simple logic like that?

Most important, America is obligated to live up to its promise as a shining city on a hill for aspiring immigrants across the world.

Obligated, I tell you!

The country has always served as a place where people were limited only by the bounds of their imaginations or the scope of their dreams. No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other, and it would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations in an immigration system that disproportionately favors those who are related to those already in the United States.

“No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other:” I couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s right there in the Zeroth Amendment to the Constitution, as carved on the Statue of Liberty.

Machmud Makhmudov is studying political theory at University of Oxford on the Rhodes scholarship.

 
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  1. Chinito isn’t insulting in Spanish. It’s certainly not at all like the word that starts with N.

    It’s applied to all people of Oriental descent in most Hispanophone countries. I’ve known Japanese and Korean Spanish speakers that don’t like it, especially when I lived near Mexico City’s Koreatown immigrant neighborhood. People would like their ethnicity respected and all China’s neighbors have natural grudges against the Chinese.

    But still the Mexicans will apply chino and its diminutive to everyone even vaguely close.

    And it’s not just Orientals that get it. The Mexicans still occasionally call me neoyorquino, even though (((I’ve))) never, ever lived in New York City.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @(((Owen)))

    Anglo norms of politeness, both reasonable ones and PC silliness alike, have never really taken hold in most of Latin America. The shamelessness with which people stereotype and give insulting nicknames to other people in Latin America can be quite jarring for a Anglo-American.

    , @theo the kraut
    @(((Owen)))

    > Chinito isn’t insulting in Spanish.

    Not to normal folks, but woke progressive Spanish speakers will tell too you that it's racist and condescending. Also, Chinito shopkeepers will tolerate it as being good natured, but they aren't all to hot for it, really.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Demosthenes Rapaport
    @(((Owen)))

    Hey Owen, I like your parentheses — truth in advertising, or maybe perhaps "owning the insult".

    I'm thinking, maybe we should develop the idea a bit further, so as to provide more detailed information. For example, ((JoeBobCohen would be someone who's Jewish on just his father's side. Or (BrianHsu-Stein) would be the son of two half-Jews.

  2. Judging from that high school-level op-ed, I conclude that the Rhodes Scholarship has instituted its own diversity lottery. How pathetic.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    @ChrisZ

    Yeah: I was gonna say that for someone doing what Machmud is doing, he doesn't write so good.

    Replies: @Rosamond Vincy

    , @Barnard
    @ChrisZ

    That happened a long time ago. Rhodes Scholars have been diversified for at least twenty years now. Poor Cecil never would have imagined that his homeland and the other members of the Empire would invite in third world hordes when he setup the scholarships.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @Eustace Tilley (not)
    @ChrisZ

    On the contrary, I feel he did an exemplary job arguing for an utterly untenable position. It's like being the attorney for Saipov: What the hell can you say in defense of your client? You take out your violin and play some sweet-sounding music.

    Makhmudov is probably doing well in his studies; he's the sort of clever fellow who would make a good politician. It's easy to imagine him addressing the House of Commons or appearing as a talking head on the BBC News.

    Replies: @ben tillman

  3. With the diversity visa lottery only a tiny number would ever have wound up here.

    You meant “without”
    Please don’t publish. Thanks

  4. Ya gotta love this guy’s logic. Everyone in the world has an equal right to live in America, and as the NYT has explained several times before, the only exceptions are the ones who were actually born here.

    Presumably once the entire USA resembles Calcutta, they’ll stop coming. But the important thing is that the ‘Ruling Class’ should feel safe, with all the other warring tribes at one another’s throats.

    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    @Anonymous

    The odd thing is that I don't know of any other Western country (or any country whatsoever) that has a diversity lottery.

    So why should the US alone in the world be required to have this?

  5. Everyone deserves the American Dream, except Americans.

  6. He explains why HE needs the program and why FOREIGNERS need the program.

    Why do I need it?

  7. And, of course, that assessment is the Corporatist/Capitalist Liberal Globalist Democratic version of Marxist-Leninist international revolution based on all the workers of the world unite.

  8. Our Pokemon immigration policy- “Gotta catch ’em all!”

  9. No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other, and it would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations in an immigration system that disproportionately favors those who are related to those already in the United States.

    Is it fair to construe this to mean that Americans don’t have a greater claim on the American dream than literally every other person on the planet (Except Putin, naturally)?

    If that’s the case, why is it the American dream and not the Earth Dream?

    • Replies: @Reactionary Utopian
    @Alec Leamas


    If that’s the case, why is it the American dream and not the Earth Dream?
     
    That's easy. 'Cause you gotta come here to dream it.

    I guess ...
    , @bomag
    @Alec Leamas


    No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other...
     
    I suspect he meant to say "No foreign person has a greater claim... than any other". Freudian slip indeed, he figures his kin has the chops to rush the open borders ahead of others and expand the brand here in the manner to which he has become accustomed.

    A telling thing here is the manner in which he talks about immigration: as a resource to be exploited. "Come to America! Find a college education! Get a spot on a baseball team! There is money lying around! Come pick some up!"

    Replies: @ben tillman

  10. My first reaction was, “this has to be a fake.” (Even if it’s not, it’s too good to check the NYT. I mean, “Machmud Makhmudov”?)

    My second reaction — and I think I speak for a significant portion of the iSteve commentariat here — was, “Oberlin has a baseball team? And recruits for it?”

    And, finally, “this got a Rhodes?”

    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Tragically Oberlin still operates a cis-binary Athletics Department, diving its Athletics into constructed categories of "Mens" and "Womens" sports. I thought Oberlin was Woke AF too

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Gary in Gramercy


    I mean, “Machmud Makhmudov”?
     
    That sounds like it might be the Uzbek for "Mohammed bin Mohammed". Or perhaps "Mohamud bin Mohamud", that apparently being a different name.
    , @Forbes
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Third reaction would be: Some guy named Machmud Makhmudov wanted to play college baseball? WTF?

    , @Frau Katze
    @Gary in Gramercy

    The Soviets forced the Muslim men to add -ov or -ev to their surname. If they didn't have a surname they needed to think one up.

    Females add -ova or -eva.

    You'd think they drop it now but I suppose that everyone is used to it after all those decades.

  11. “Oberlin College”… “University of Oxford” … “Rhodes scholarship”.

    Gentlemen, we need a cultural civil war right now. Those of us who are Gentiles, whose grandparents all spoke English as their first language, those of us who are “Anglos”, we need to go to war with our political enemies closest to home.

    Birds gonna fly, fish gonna swim, Weinsteins gonna Weinstein … but we need to win back our own institutions and police our own people. The people punching the biggest holes in the hull of the West are on our Christmas card list.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Lucius Somesuch
    @Cagey Beast


    Birds gonna fly, fish gonna swim, Weinsteins gonna Weinstein … but we need to win back our own institutions and police our own people. The people punching the biggest holes in the hull of the West are on our Winter Holiday card list.
     
    --I entirely approve the motion, but for the sake of exactness I thought a clarifying expansion of category was desirable.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  12. Most important, America is obligated

    Most important. The university of fucking Oxford, everybody.

    Yeah, I know, he’s a foreigner with a comedy foreigner name, but this is the university of fucking Oxford.

    The Chinese deserve to level the western education system with the Mothel of All Bombs and then build it up from scratch into a place where things are taught and things are learned. Even with universal cheating the quality would rise to a level that someone like (to pick a random example) Cecil Rhodes would be familiar with.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @kihowi

    It's not our Oxford anymore, apparently. I have a great-aunt who went to Oxford in the 1950s but apparently it's not part of my cultural inheritance. Oxford now belongs to this Uzbek more than it does me. I need to grow up and deal with it.

    As for the Rhodes scholarship, when failed American ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul was applying for a Rhodes Scholarship:


    .... his interviewer took note that McFaul, along with an intelligent and rambunctious classmate named Susan Rice, had helped lead the anti-apartheid movement on the Stanford campus. They occupied a building, campaigned for divestment. Among McFaul’s academic interests was the range of liberation movements in post-colonial Africa: Mozambique, Zimbabwe, and South Africa. How did McFaul reconcile his desire to study at Oxford on a Rhodes, the interviewer inquired, with the fact that its benefactor, Cecil Rhodes, had been a pillar of white supremacy? What would he do with such “blood money”?

    “I will use it to bring down the regime,” McFaul said. In the event, both he and Rice won the blood money and went to Oxford.
     
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/11/watching-eclipse

    These people think they can continue to run and hold our countries and our institutions as a hostile elite that defines itself in opposition to us? How long do they think that can last?

    Replies: @Forbes

  13. I want to follow up on the comment about the Mexican slang word “NewYorqino” If I were living in Mexico city, what would prompt someone to call me a NewYorqino. (1) If
    i had all the traits and mannerisms of Woody
    Allen or (2) I was Ashkenazi
    jewish and had traits that did not resemble Woody Allen (3) I was any kind of Jewish, even Misrahi or
    syrian or Persian Jewish. Basically what
    i am asking is, who gets called Newyorquino in Mexico city.

  14. “No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other.”

    The Mussulman is right. No non-U.S. citizen has any greater claim to American citizenship than any other non-U.S. citizen. They all have absolutely zero claim.

  15. Most important, America is obligated to live up to its promise as a shining city on a hill for aspiring immigrants across the world.

    That statement implies American Exceptionalism, no?

    So we are exceptional after all! When we ‘invade the world’–exceptional. We ‘invite the world’–exceptional again.

    But wait– American Exceptionalism is a lie! Critics on the left… have argued that American history is so morally flawed, citing slavery, civil rights and social welfare issues, that it cannot be an exemplar of virtue.

    I am so confused.

    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    @Bitfu

    The never answered question: if the US is as awful as the left thinks it is, why on earth does anyone want to go there?

    I'd really like to see NYT address that.

  16. Once again, the NYT disables comments for an immigration expansion propaganda piece. Th more things change…

    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    @Nico

    I wonder if it's because the NYT editors know some NYT regulars will disapprove of the entire world having a right to live in the USA?

    I notice they're quick to shut down comments if things aren't going as expected.

    Why does WSJ allow unvetted comments on every story or op-ed?

  17. What is it with liberals and their fetish for always having to use feel-good jargon like the “American dream?”

    Someone should remind these morons that the American dream was created by a 90% white country- If we had started out with the demographics of say a Brazil, or a Mexico or an Uzbekistan- there would’ve never been an “American dream” created on the territory called the United States to begin with. No one talks about an “An uzbeki dream” after all.”

  18. @ChrisZ
    Judging from that high school-level op-ed, I conclude that the Rhodes Scholarship has instituted its own diversity lottery. How pathetic.

    Replies: @slumber_j, @Barnard, @Eustace Tilley (not)

    Yeah: I was gonna say that for someone doing what Machmud is doing, he doesn’t write so good.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    @slumber_j

    He don't write good at all. ;-)

  19. @ChrisZ
    Judging from that high school-level op-ed, I conclude that the Rhodes Scholarship has instituted its own diversity lottery. How pathetic.

    Replies: @slumber_j, @Barnard, @Eustace Tilley (not)

    That happened a long time ago. Rhodes Scholars have been diversified for at least twenty years now. Poor Cecil never would have imagined that his homeland and the other members of the Empire would invite in third world hordes when he setup the scholarships.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Barnard


    That happened a long time ago. Rhodes Scholars have been diversified for at least twenty years now. Poor Cecil never would have imagined that his homeland and the other members of the Empire would invite in third world hordes when he setup the scholarships.
     
    Yep, he was a monumental dumbass.
  20. Let’s revoke Mohammed Son-of-Mohammed’s US visa while he’s in England so he can bat (cricket) for Oxford, which is cooler than Oberlin. He will feel more at home in a country where the most popular name for newborns is . . . Mohammed.

  21. Uzbekistan’s government has willingly helped us fight terrorism.

    If you remember the early days of the war on terror, Uzbekistan was picked as a helper because they were known for their use of torture. Back when Bush the Lesser started using Uzbeki prisons the Uzbek secret police were known for boiling men alive.

    • Replies: @republic
    @Chris Mallory

    Craig Murray, was the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, got fired because of his opposition to torture in that country. His book, Murder in Samarkand is worth reading. I have been to Uzbekistan, a real police state! I once took a taxi from Tashkent to Samarkand, had to stop ever 10 miles or so to have a full police inspection of the car. A very grim place indeed.

    Replies: @Forbes

    , @Expletive Deleted
    @Chris Mallory

    I suppose Craig Murray will be aquaint with that jolly Scottish legend which involves variously a De Soulis lord of Liddesdale, or the Sheriff Melville of Glenbervie being boiled alive, for rapacious oppression and/or sheer witchery, by the tenantry. Fair go, it was somewhere between AD 1200 and 1420.

  22. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “No Person Has a Greater Claim to the American Dream Than Any Other”

    I like to believe in finders keepers and builders owners.

    ‘American Dream’ didn’t just exist always and universally.
    It exists ONLY BECAUSE of the adventure, discovery, and exertion of a particular people. The notion that the people in question went through all that trouble, risk, and hardship just to hand over their creation to others as freebies is ridiculous. They created it, and they should use it to further the interests of the people who did most to make it what it is. American Dream is not something for others to freeload and leech off.

    Uzbeks were just sitting on their ass doing nothing while ANOTHER people did so much to create a great nation. Yet the Uzbek grasshoppers think they have a claim on the creation of euro-American ants. Such Uzbetzpah.

    Another thing. If indeed ‘American Dream’ is for everyone, then even the lottery system is unjust since it confers favors only on a chosen few via immigration casino. EVERYONE should be allowed in as he sees fit.

    That’d be crazy.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Anon


    ‘American Dream’ didn’t just exist always and universally.
    It exists ONLY BECAUSE of the adventure, discovery, and exertion of a particular people. The notion that the people in question went through all that trouble, risk, and hardship just to hand over their creation to others as freebies is ridiculous.
     
    Very good comment.

    A problem here is that parasitism enjoys quite a bit of success in human affairs. We've got whole groups (gypsies) that are doing well enough; and within any cohort, there is a parasite class that is well informed today as to the feeding points of modern societies; thus the Uzbeks et al who are so inclined find their way into the pipeline and start feasting away.
  23. “No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other”

    Of course, if this statement was followed to its logical conclusion, it would mean immediately ending all immigration from Mexico and replacing it with a global lottery, because Mexicans don’t have any more right to enter the US than anyone else, just because they happen to have had the good fortune to be born in a country that adjoins the US.

    What do you want to bet this is not done?

  24. Why can’t Uzbeks dream? Why not the Uzbek Dream? Are they incapable of dreaming on their own?

    Also, if indeed Americanism is such a universal idea applicable to all, then Uzbeks should use the American formula for their own society.

  25. No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other,

    Actually Haji, yes, we do have a greater claim.

    There is an obvious if crude American Dream pecking order, and without going into to much detail, post 1965 foreign invaders like you are at the bottom of it.

    and it would be uniquely un-American to … [have] an immigration system that disproportionately favors those who are related to those already in the United States.

    So you’re saying we need to end chain migration? Sounds good to me.

  26. Nobody frontlashes like the New York Times.

  27. I can understand people here resenting what this Uzbek has to say but we have to ask where he got his understanding of the American social contract? He got it from his American school teachers, textbooks and television. He has been encouraged and rewarded to parrot the ideas that were in the ascendant before he ever set foot off the plane. This will keep on happening until you change the people who give out the rewards and train these vibrant pets of theirs.

  28. It must be almost unbelievable to people outside the US how little our elites do to safeguard the interests of our citizens when it comes to immigration.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Arclight

    All of our countries in the West are bad in the same ways as the US but there are some things that even surprise a Canadian like me. I'm amazed how much "undocumented Americans" are allowed to do in your country. They're even allowed to attend school and university without any formal immigration status? How does that even work? Why are people allowed to vote without ID in your country? Why is Spanish treated as a de facto official language when it isn't one? Why have a lottery system for immigration? Maybe the same things happen here and I haven't heard about it? I don't think so though.

    Replies: @Arclight

    , @Epochehusserl
    @Arclight

    The elite actively hate white christian america and many whites support this. We have a hostile elite.

    , @ben tillman
    @Arclight


    It must be almost unbelievable to people outside the US how little our elites do to safeguard the interests of our citizens when it comes to immigration.
     
    I doubt the people in the UK, France, or Germany are surprised in the least.
    , @Bragadocious
    @Arclight

    It certainly must seem that way to Argentina!

  29. @Alec Leamas

    No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other, and it would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations in an immigration system that disproportionately favors those who are related to those already in the United States.
     
    Is it fair to construe this to mean that Americans don't have a greater claim on the American dream than literally every other person on the planet (Except Putin, naturally)?

    If that's the case, why is it the American dream and not the Earth Dream?

    Replies: @Reactionary Utopian, @bomag

    If that’s the case, why is it the American dream and not the Earth Dream?

    That’s easy. ‘Cause you gotta come here to dream it.

    I guess …

  30. @Gary in Gramercy
    My first reaction was, "this has to be a fake." (Even if it's not, it's too good to check the NYT. I mean, "Machmud Makhmudov"?)

    My second reaction -- and I think I speak for a significant portion of the iSteve commentariat here -- was, "Oberlin has a baseball team? And recruits for it?"

    And, finally, "this got a Rhodes?"

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Reg Cæsar, @Forbes, @Frau Katze

    Tragically Oberlin still operates a cis-binary Athletics Department, diving its Athletics into constructed categories of “Mens” and “Womens” sports. I thought Oberlin was Woke AF too

    • LOL: Nico
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    I always assumed Oberlin banned all sports as anti liberal lunacy.

  31. We might be losing the competition.

    “Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen said that by 2036 100 per cent of Canada’s population growth will be as a result of immigration, it stands at about 75 per cent today.

    “Canada will welcome nearly one million immigrants over the next three years, according to the multi-year strategy tabled by the Liberal government today in what it calls “the most ambitious immigration levels in recent history.” ”

    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/immigration-canada-2018-1.4371146

    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    @Elli

    The only comfort I can draw is that there's over 7500 comments with a decidedly negative tone.

    And mainly the left reads CBC.

  32. If the people of the world desperately want to vote with their feet to live with US/Europe/Canadian/Australian governance/institutions, and people of the world are desperate to flee from other nations, why don’t the governments/institutions and nations of the latter group be replaced by the former. And reuse the land and natural resources for a government/nation that people actually want to live in rather than one people want to flee.

  33. @Alec Leamas

    No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other, and it would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations in an immigration system that disproportionately favors those who are related to those already in the United States.
     
    Is it fair to construe this to mean that Americans don't have a greater claim on the American dream than literally every other person on the planet (Except Putin, naturally)?

    If that's the case, why is it the American dream and not the Earth Dream?

    Replies: @Reactionary Utopian, @bomag

    No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other…

    I suspect he meant to say “No foreign person has a greater claim… than any other”. Freudian slip indeed, he figures his kin has the chops to rush the open borders ahead of others and expand the brand here in the manner to which he has become accustomed.

    A telling thing here is the manner in which he talks about immigration: as a resource to be exploited. “Come to America! Find a college education! Get a spot on a baseball team! There is money lying around! Come pick some up!”

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @bomag


    I suspect he meant to say “No foreign person has a greater claim… than any other”.
     
    Absolutely not. That is not what he means.

    Freudian slip indeed, he figures his kin has the chops to rush the open borders ahead of others and expand the brand here in the manner to which he has become accustomed.

    A telling thing here is the manner in which he talks about immigration: as a resource to be exploited. “Come to America! Find a college education! Get a spot on a baseball team! There is money lying around! Come pick some up!”
     

    He views it as a commons. It has no owner.

    Read Garrett Hardin. And Viscount Ridley.

  34. @ChrisZ
    Judging from that high school-level op-ed, I conclude that the Rhodes Scholarship has instituted its own diversity lottery. How pathetic.

    Replies: @slumber_j, @Barnard, @Eustace Tilley (not)

    On the contrary, I feel he did an exemplary job arguing for an utterly untenable position. It’s like being the attorney for Saipov: What the hell can you say in defense of your client? You take out your violin and play some sweet-sounding music.

    Makhmudov is probably doing well in his studies; he’s the sort of clever fellow who would make a good politician. It’s easy to imagine him addressing the House of Commons or appearing as a talking head on the BBC News.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Eustace Tilley (not)


    On the contrary, I feel he did an exemplary job arguing for an utterly untenable position.
     
    He did a pitiful job. I could (though of course I never would) do it 100 times better.
  35. The hatred that our elites and (((elites))) have for us never ceases to amaze me.

  36. Machmud’s arguments amounts to “it worked great for me and a few others like me so it must be a good thing”. Not particularly convincing.

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @jimbojones

    As the ancient legal doctrine says, "'for instance' isn't proof.'"

  37. @(((Owen)))
    Chinito isn't insulting in Spanish. It's certainly not at all like the word that starts with N.

    It's applied to all people of Oriental descent in most Hispanophone countries. I've known Japanese and Korean Spanish speakers that don't like it, especially when I lived near Mexico City's Koreatown immigrant neighborhood. People would like their ethnicity respected and all China's neighbors have natural grudges against the Chinese.

    But still the Mexicans will apply chino and its diminutive to everyone even vaguely close.

    And it's not just Orientals that get it. The Mexicans still occasionally call me neoyorquino, even though (((I've))) never, ever lived in New York City.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @theo the kraut, @Demosthenes Rapaport

    Anglo norms of politeness, both reasonable ones and PC silliness alike, have never really taken hold in most of Latin America. The shamelessness with which people stereotype and give insulting nicknames to other people in Latin America can be quite jarring for a Anglo-American.

  38. I always thought that it was my right-wing conceit that the rest of the world was full of Americans just waiting to get in.

    Turns out I was right, and the NYT editorial board agrees with me!

  39. @(((Owen)))
    Chinito isn't insulting in Spanish. It's certainly not at all like the word that starts with N.

    It's applied to all people of Oriental descent in most Hispanophone countries. I've known Japanese and Korean Spanish speakers that don't like it, especially when I lived near Mexico City's Koreatown immigrant neighborhood. People would like their ethnicity respected and all China's neighbors have natural grudges against the Chinese.

    But still the Mexicans will apply chino and its diminutive to everyone even vaguely close.

    And it's not just Orientals that get it. The Mexicans still occasionally call me neoyorquino, even though (((I've))) never, ever lived in New York City.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @theo the kraut, @Demosthenes Rapaport

    > Chinito isn’t insulting in Spanish.

    Not to normal folks, but woke progressive Spanish speakers will tell too you that it’s racist and condescending. Also, Chinito shopkeepers will tolerate it as being good natured, but they aren’t all to hot for it, really.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @theo the kraut

    Wasn't there a Chinese or half-Chinese model in Spain who changed her name to "China"?

  40. If Trump does away with the Diversity Lottery, Malibu should institute their own.

  41. @Arclight
    It must be almost unbelievable to people outside the US how little our elites do to safeguard the interests of our citizens when it comes to immigration.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Epochehusserl, @ben tillman, @Bragadocious

    All of our countries in the West are bad in the same ways as the US but there are some things that even surprise a Canadian like me. I’m amazed how much “undocumented Americans” are allowed to do in your country. They’re even allowed to attend school and university without any formal immigration status? How does that even work? Why are people allowed to vote without ID in your country? Why is Spanish treated as a de facto official language when it isn’t one? Why have a lottery system for immigration? Maybe the same things happen here and I haven’t heard about it? I don’t think so though.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    @Cagey Beast

    We have several problems:

    a) the left wants as many immigrants (legal or not) to provide future voters
    b) the right is fine with this because it means lots of cheap laborers for their corporate paymasters
    c) the left has successfully conditions the ruling class, media and large chunks of the public to view any comments or questions that portray non-whites as anything other than pure magic as racist, which is about the worst thing you can be in our culture.

    That's not to say that a lot of our immigrants are bad people - most aren't. It's just that most are not a value-add proposition for the country, and we are ensuring that our already too-large underclass will get substantially bigger in the decades to come.

  42. The underlying theme of all of this is there’s no such thing as culture in the United States. And populations are interchangeable. Two very unsound ideas.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @J1234


    The underlying theme of all of this is there’s no such thing as culture in the United States.
     
    What culture we may once have had has crumbled almost to powder. Immigrants' desire to come to such a realm, therefore, is highly suspicious.

    They're here for the money. Period.

    Replies: @J1234

  43. I had always wanted to be a college baseball player…

    What boy dreams of being a college baseball player? I can see a boy dreaming of being a major league baseball player, or a boy dreaming of being a college football player, but a college baseball player? Does not compute.

  44. @theo the kraut
    @(((Owen)))

    > Chinito isn’t insulting in Spanish.

    Not to normal folks, but woke progressive Spanish speakers will tell too you that it's racist and condescending. Also, Chinito shopkeepers will tolerate it as being good natured, but they aren't all to hot for it, really.

    Replies: @Anon

    Wasn’t there a Chinese or half-Chinese model in Spain who changed her name to “China”?

  45. The same people who pooh-pooh America’s unique position in the world, who claim we are a country like any other (although maybe luckier) also claim that somehow we have a unique responsibility to admit the world’s riff-raff. If a country is just a country, then immigration is just an economic tool and we should be strategic in who we admit – if we want to admit anyone at all – right? Why no NYT editorial defending that logic?

  46. @Gary in Gramercy
    My first reaction was, "this has to be a fake." (Even if it's not, it's too good to check the NYT. I mean, "Machmud Makhmudov"?)

    My second reaction -- and I think I speak for a significant portion of the iSteve commentariat here -- was, "Oberlin has a baseball team? And recruits for it?"

    And, finally, "this got a Rhodes?"

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Reg Cæsar, @Forbes, @Frau Katze

    I mean, “Machmud Makhmudov”?

    That sounds like it might be the Uzbek for “Mohammed bin Mohammed”. Or perhaps “Mohamud bin Mohamud”, that apparently being a different name.

  47. @J1234
    The underlying theme of all of this is there's no such thing as culture in the United States. And populations are interchangeable. Two very unsound ideas.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The underlying theme of all of this is there’s no such thing as culture in the United States.

    What culture we may once have had has crumbled almost to powder. Immigrants’ desire to come to such a realm, therefore, is highly suspicious.

    They’re here for the money. Period.

    • Replies: @J1234
    @Reg Cæsar


    What culture we may once have had has crumbled almost to powder.
     
    Leftists and conservatives have made this claim at different times in recent history for different reasons. Conservatives today say it's so as a result of immigration and leftist social indoctrination, via public education and workplace intimidation (among other things.)

    Leftists were saying it as early as the late 1940's and early 1950's because the post war affluence of the common people in America was intimidating to them, and seemed to invalidate the Soviet model of championing the proletariat. So the left made up this story that Americans only valued their new cars and careers, and nothing else...hence, "no more culture." (See the beat "generation"...who weren't really a generation at all.)

    While it is true that prolonged affluence can insulate common folk from wide variety of things - including culture and reality - it was mostly untrue from the mid-40's to the mid-60's. While American culture (as a term with any meaning or depth) may be gone for whites in California and the upper east coast, it can still exist for people in some rural states (save the larger cities in those states, which are forever trying to be like California and the east coast.) But you're right in that American culture has been abused beyond belief for the last 50 years.

  48. A solution to chain migration.

    Make sure to include an angry bride.

    https://www.local10.com/news/weird-news/bride-kills-17-in-botched-plot-to-kill-husband

  49. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Americanism as an enterprise is a sound idea.
    Anyone can study why the American Enterprise worked and apply those lessons to his own nation.

    But Americanism as an entitlement is a terrible idea.
    It means worthless bums who learn nothing just gain entry to America to leech off another people’s achievement.

  50. Just another Diversity Diva.

  51. Most important, America is obligated to live up to its promise as a shining city on a hill for aspiring immigrants across the world.

    MMM, wonder if Mr Makhmudov has ever bothered to actually read John Winthrop’s “A Model of Christian Charity” (the source of the “America-as-City-on-the-Hill” business)….

    Now the only way to avoid this shipwreck, and to provide for our posterity, is to follow the counsel of Micah, to do justly, to love mercy, to walk humbly with our God. For this end, we must be knit together, in this work, as one man. We must entertain each other in brotherly affection. We must be willing to abridge ourselves of our superfluities, for the supply of others’ necessities. We must uphold a familiar commerce together in all meekness, gentleness, patience and liberality. We must delight in each other; make others’ conditions our own; rejoice together, mourn together, labor and suffer together, always having before our eyes our commission and community in the work, as members of the same body. So shall we keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. The Lord will be our God, and delight to dwell among us, as His own people, and will command a blessing upon us in all our ways, so that we shall see much more of His wisdom, power, goodness and truth, than formerly we have been acquainted with. We shall find that the God of Israel is among us, when ten of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies; when He shall make us a praise and glory that men shall say of succeeding plantations, “may the Lord make it like that of New England.” For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world. We shall open the mouths of enemies to speak evil of the ways of God, and all professors for God’s sake. We shall shame the faces of many of God’s worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into curses upon us till we be consumed out of the good land whither we are going.

    https://www.winthropsociety.com/doc_charity.php

    Dunno. It doesn’t sound to me as though Winthrop was thinking about letting in lots and lots of foreigners …….

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @syonredux

    Thanks for this. When I read this dude's reference to the "City on The Hill" my thought was that Winthrop was referring to the effort to build a model society for his fellow Puritans, not for the flotsam and jetsam. The conflation of Winthrop with Emma Lazarus beggars description.

  52. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The ad shows non-white kids running from a white man.
    But why do non-whites run from their own non-white nations to come to white-founded nations?
    They must prefer white people to their own kind. Non-white immigrants are really
    closet-white-supremacists.
    They believe whites make and manage the best societies, and they prefer white rule over rule by their own kind.

  53. Sort of off topic. It’s amusing that people who have no problem with Uzbeks coming to America are extremely agitated when Russians re-tweet the political wisdom mouthed by Kevin Spacey. Here’s testimony from a farmed troll.

    Last month, an internet troll who said he worked at the “troll farm” and was tasked with disrupting the US election by watching Netflix series House of Cards to learn about the American political system.
    “At first we were forced to watch House of Cards in English. It was necessary to know all the main problems of the United States of America. Tax problems, the problem of gays, sexual minorities, weapons,” the Russian troll, known as Maksim, revealed.
    “Our goal wasn’t to turn Americans toward Russia. Our goal was to set Americans against their own government,” he said.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/alt-twitter-blogger-jenna-abrams-105338598.html

    What’s next? KGB agents on the radio, reading us the New York Times?

  54. @kihowi

    Most important, America is obligated
     
    Most important. The university of fucking Oxford, everybody.

    Yeah, I know, he's a foreigner with a comedy foreigner name, but this is the university of fucking Oxford.

    The Chinese deserve to level the western education system with the Mothel of All Bombs and then build it up from scratch into a place where things are taught and things are learned. Even with universal cheating the quality would rise to a level that someone like (to pick a random example) Cecil Rhodes would be familiar with.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    It’s not our Oxford anymore, apparently. I have a great-aunt who went to Oxford in the 1950s but apparently it’s not part of my cultural inheritance. Oxford now belongs to this Uzbek more than it does me. I need to grow up and deal with it.

    As for the Rhodes scholarship, when failed American ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul was applying for a Rhodes Scholarship:

    …. his interviewer took note that McFaul, along with an intelligent and rambunctious classmate named Susan Rice, had helped lead the anti-apartheid movement on the Stanford campus. They occupied a building, campaigned for divestment. Among McFaul’s academic interests was the range of liberation movements in post-colonial Africa: Mozambique, Zimbabwe, and South Africa. How did McFaul reconcile his desire to study at Oxford on a Rhodes, the interviewer inquired, with the fact that its benefactor, Cecil Rhodes, had been a pillar of white supremacy? What would he do with such “blood money”?

    “I will use it to bring down the regime,” McFaul said. In the event, both he and Rice won the blood money and went to Oxford.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/11/watching-eclipse

    These people think they can continue to run and hold our countries and our institutions as a hostile elite that defines itself in opposition to us? How long do they think that can last?

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @Cagey Beast

    The interviewer's questioning reads like historical revisionism. In the late '80s when McFaul was interviewed, would the Rhodes Scholarship interviewer refer to Cecil Rhodes as a white supremacist?

    Or perhaps that's how long ago Rhodes legacy was corrupted.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

  55. All right, dude, which is it: Machmud ch or Makhmud kh?

  56. @Arclight
    It must be almost unbelievable to people outside the US how little our elites do to safeguard the interests of our citizens when it comes to immigration.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Epochehusserl, @ben tillman, @Bragadocious

    The elite actively hate white christian america and many whites support this. We have a hostile elite.

  57. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other, and it would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations

    Tell that to the signer of the Naturalization Act of 1790, President/General George Washington.

    Tell that to the people who wrote, passed and signed into the law the Immigration Act of 1924.

    It seems like limiting the American dream to residents of certain nations is uniquely American, not un-American.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @anonymous

    "No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other, and it would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations"

    It's idiotic. How the heck do they think 'the American Dream' became a thing, if not Americans building it. More Magic Dirt I guess.

    When it was coined it referred to an American rising from nothing to prosperity doing it for themselves by pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, not the current day meaning of immigrating here to leech off the American taxpayer while making him a minority in his own country.

  58. @Anon
    "No Person Has a Greater Claim to the American Dream Than Any Other"

    I like to believe in finders keepers and builders owners.

    'American Dream' didn't just exist always and universally.
    It exists ONLY BECAUSE of the adventure, discovery, and exertion of a particular people. The notion that the people in question went through all that trouble, risk, and hardship just to hand over their creation to others as freebies is ridiculous. They created it, and they should use it to further the interests of the people who did most to make it what it is. American Dream is not something for others to freeload and leech off.

    Uzbeks were just sitting on their ass doing nothing while ANOTHER people did so much to create a great nation. Yet the Uzbek grasshoppers think they have a claim on the creation of euro-American ants. Such Uzbetzpah.

    Another thing. If indeed 'American Dream' is for everyone, then even the lottery system is unjust since it confers favors only on a chosen few via immigration casino. EVERYONE should be allowed in as he sees fit.

    That'd be crazy.

    Replies: @bomag

    ‘American Dream’ didn’t just exist always and universally.
    It exists ONLY BECAUSE of the adventure, discovery, and exertion of a particular people. The notion that the people in question went through all that trouble, risk, and hardship just to hand over their creation to others as freebies is ridiculous.

    Very good comment.

    A problem here is that parasitism enjoys quite a bit of success in human affairs. We’ve got whole groups (gypsies) that are doing well enough; and within any cohort, there is a parasite class that is well informed today as to the feeding points of modern societies; thus the Uzbeks et al who are so inclined find their way into the pipeline and start feasting away.

  59. he was reportedly radicalized while in America, not before, a phenomenon no test could screen for.

    Except for this clever test I just devised off the top of my head: “Yes or No: Are you a Muslim?”

    I’ll be waiting for DHS to direct deposit my consulting fee in my checking account (one of the perks of a panopticon security state).

    America can’t afford to turn its back on an opportunity to portray itself as an open, tolerant and diverse nation.

    Really? If the entire population of Uzbekistan believes America to be a closed, intolerant, and homogeneous nation, what exactly will the dire consequences be? And is Makhmudov deliberately dissing his host by omitting the Oxford comma?

  60. @slumber_j
    @ChrisZ

    Yeah: I was gonna say that for someone doing what Machmud is doing, he doesn't write so good.

    Replies: @Rosamond Vincy

    He don’t write good at all. 😉

  61. “Most important, America is obligated to live up to its promise as a shining city on a hill for aspiring immigrants across the world.”

    I don’t recall ever making this promise. No one I know recalls ever making this promise.

    “No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other.”

    How would this guy feel if Americans all suddenly decided to proclaim that “no person has a greater claim to the Uzbek dream than any other”?

    “It would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations in an immigration system that disproportionately favors those who are related to those already in the United States.”

    So I guess this is a promise that, now that he is here, he will never never never ever use the chain migration system to bring his own family members here? Does this mean he’s endorsing an end to chain migration? And WTF is he to tell is what is “un-American”?

  62. @Chris Mallory

    Uzbekistan’s government has willingly helped us fight terrorism.
     
    If you remember the early days of the war on terror, Uzbekistan was picked as a helper because they were known for their use of torture. Back when Bush the Lesser started using Uzbeki prisons the Uzbek secret police were known for boiling men alive.

    Replies: @republic, @Expletive Deleted

    Craig Murray, was the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, got fired because of his opposition to torture in that country. His book, Murder in Samarkand is worth reading. I have been to Uzbekistan, a real police state! I once took a taxi from Tashkent to Samarkand, had to stop ever 10 miles or so to have a full police inspection of the car. A very grim place indeed.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @republic

    Craig Murray is the British diplomat that also knows who hacked the DNC and gave the emails to Wikileaks--and it wasn't the Russians, according to Murray.

  63. Silly me…and all the while I assumed that no one had a “right” to live in any country, let alone the United States, and that it is a COUNTRY’s right to decide whom to admit as immigrants, how many etc. But…what did I know, right?

  64. @syonredux

    Most important, America is obligated to live up to its promise as a shining city on a hill for aspiring immigrants across the world.

     

    MMM, wonder if Mr Makhmudov has ever bothered to actually read John Winthrop's "A Model of Christian Charity" (the source of the "America-as-City-on-the-Hill" business)....

    Now the only way to avoid this shipwreck, and to provide for our posterity, is to follow the counsel of Micah, to do justly, to love mercy, to walk humbly with our God. For this end, we must be knit together, in this work, as one man. We must entertain each other in brotherly affection. We must be willing to abridge ourselves of our superfluities, for the supply of others’ necessities. We must uphold a familiar commerce together in all meekness, gentleness, patience and liberality. We must delight in each other; make others’ conditions our own; rejoice together, mourn together, labor and suffer together, always having before our eyes our commission and community in the work, as members of the same body. So shall we keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. The Lord will be our God, and delight to dwell among us, as His own people, and will command a blessing upon us in all our ways, so that we shall see much more of His wisdom, power, goodness and truth, than formerly we have been acquainted with. We shall find that the God of Israel is among us, when ten of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies; when He shall make us a praise and glory that men shall say of succeeding plantations, "may the Lord make it like that of New England." For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world. We shall open the mouths of enemies to speak evil of the ways of God, and all professors for God's sake. We shall shame the faces of many of God's worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into curses upon us till we be consumed out of the good land whither we are going.
     
    https://www.winthropsociety.com/doc_charity.php


    Dunno. It doesn't sound to me as though Winthrop was thinking about letting in lots and lots of foreigners .......

    Replies: @anonymous

    Thanks for this. When I read this dude’s reference to the “City on The Hill” my thought was that Winthrop was referring to the effort to build a model society for his fellow Puritans, not for the flotsam and jetsam. The conflation of Winthrop with Emma Lazarus beggars description.

  65. Trump should appoint a real fascist like Giuliani to head up Justice with instructions to have 500 Feebs going over the paperwork of every one of these Fukers and as soon as the first lie is found they’re on a plane back home the same day. None of this court nonsense.

  66. What a perfect example of how liberalism and Marxism can utterly degrade an institution. The Rhodes scholarships were initiated with this explicit objective:

    “the furtherance of the British Empire, for the bringing of the whole uncivilised world under British rule, for the recovery of the United States, for the making the Anglo-Saxon race but one Empire”. Cecil Rhodes included provisions for scholarships for students from Germany because “a good understanding between England, Germany and the United States of America will secure the peace of the world”. How prescient, how broadminded in the deepest sense, and how necessary for the advancement of mankind, which includes, I’m afraid, ensuring that the attributes of Uzbekistan be confined to that miserable patch of earth until they develop institutions of their own that would further said advancement.

    Everything that belongs to the Anglo-Germanic world needs to be explicitly identified as such and reserved to ourselves, all peoples, lands and even certain products like medical technology.

  67. They think the USA is the only legitimate government in human history, not for what it is but for what it is supposed to become in the future. The Audacity Of Hope ,The man from Hope, Tragedy and Hope

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley#Inclusive_diversity
    Quigley’s work emphasized inclusive diversity as a core value of Western Civilization,[3] contrasting it with the dualism of Plato.[4] He concluded Tragedy and Hope with the hope that the West could “resume its development along its old patterns of Inclusive Diversity”.[5] From his study of history, “it is clear that the West believes in diversity rather than in uniformity, in pluralism rather than in monism or dualism, in inclusion rather than exclusion, in liberty rather than in authority, in truth rather than in power, in conversion rather than in annihilation, in the individual rather than in the organization, in reconciliation rather than in triumph, in heterogeneity rather than in homogeneity, in relativisms rather than in absolutes, and in approximations rather than in final answers.”[6]

  68. This essay decries our dearth of Uzbeks, but we lack Tajiks and Kazakhs too. They should get a greater weighting in the Diversity Lottery. My favorite Kazakh songstress (this video has become so popular that now YouTube makes you watch an ad first):

  69. @(((Owen)))
    Chinito isn't insulting in Spanish. It's certainly not at all like the word that starts with N.

    It's applied to all people of Oriental descent in most Hispanophone countries. I've known Japanese and Korean Spanish speakers that don't like it, especially when I lived near Mexico City's Koreatown immigrant neighborhood. People would like their ethnicity respected and all China's neighbors have natural grudges against the Chinese.

    But still the Mexicans will apply chino and its diminutive to everyone even vaguely close.

    And it's not just Orientals that get it. The Mexicans still occasionally call me neoyorquino, even though (((I've))) never, ever lived in New York City.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @theo the kraut, @Demosthenes Rapaport

    Hey Owen, I like your parentheses — truth in advertising, or maybe perhaps “owning the insult”.

    I’m thinking, maybe we should develop the idea a bit further, so as to provide more detailed information. For example, ((JoeBobCohen would be someone who’s Jewish on just his father’s side. Or (BrianHsu-Stein) would be the son of two half-Jews.

  70. @Cagey Beast
    "Oberlin College"... "University of Oxford" ... "Rhodes scholarship".

    Gentlemen, we need a cultural civil war right now. Those of us who are Gentiles, whose grandparents all spoke English as their first language, those of us who are "Anglos", we need to go to war with our political enemies closest to home.

    Birds gonna fly, fish gonna swim, Weinsteins gonna Weinstein ... but we need to win back our own institutions and police our own people. The people punching the biggest holes in the hull of the West are on our Christmas card list.

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch

    Birds gonna fly, fish gonna swim, Weinsteins gonna Weinstein … but we need to win back our own institutions and police our own people. The people punching the biggest holes in the hull of the West are on our Winter Holiday card list.

    –I entirely approve the motion, but for the sake of exactness I thought a clarifying expansion of category was desirable.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Lucius Somesuch

    Oh no, I most definitely meant to target those who celebrate Christmas. Our biggest problem is our own people. The Hanukkah and Diwali folks can sort themselves out if they choose to.

  71. @Cagey Beast
    @Arclight

    All of our countries in the West are bad in the same ways as the US but there are some things that even surprise a Canadian like me. I'm amazed how much "undocumented Americans" are allowed to do in your country. They're even allowed to attend school and university without any formal immigration status? How does that even work? Why are people allowed to vote without ID in your country? Why is Spanish treated as a de facto official language when it isn't one? Why have a lottery system for immigration? Maybe the same things happen here and I haven't heard about it? I don't think so though.

    Replies: @Arclight

    We have several problems:

    a) the left wants as many immigrants (legal or not) to provide future voters
    b) the right is fine with this because it means lots of cheap laborers for their corporate paymasters
    c) the left has successfully conditions the ruling class, media and large chunks of the public to view any comments or questions that portray non-whites as anything other than pure magic as racist, which is about the worst thing you can be in our culture.

    That’s not to say that a lot of our immigrants are bad people – most aren’t. It’s just that most are not a value-add proposition for the country, and we are ensuring that our already too-large underclass will get substantially bigger in the decades to come.

  72. Here’s Oakland Mayor, Libby Schaaf giving her State of the City address whilst making obeisance to Islam.

    http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/11/02/state-of-the-city-mayor-schaaf-speaks-of-a-resilient-oakland/

  73. None of that nonsense is true. We were never here or America created for all immigrants.

    “The eight Beatitudes in Matthew 5:3–12 during the Sermon on the Mount.[7][8]
    Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 5:3)
    Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted. (5:4)
    Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth. (5:5)
    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled. (5:6)
    Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy. (5:7)
    Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God. (5:8)
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God. (5:9)
    Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (5:10)
    Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. .5:11-12”

    • Replies: @jane claire
    @jane claire

    Some of this changed from the original no prophets....

  74. re. Uzbekiwhatever:
    sometimes I miss the USSR.

  75. Read the Beatitudes then read the lines of the poem on the Statute of Liberty again.

  76. @jane claire
    None of that nonsense is true. We were never here or America created for all immigrants.

    "The eight Beatitudes in Matthew 5:3–12 during the Sermon on the Mount.[7][8]
    Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 5:3)
    Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted. (5:4)
    Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth. (5:5)
    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled. (5:6)
    Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy. (5:7)
    Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God. (5:8)
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God. (5:9)
    Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (5:10)
    Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. .5:11-12"

    Replies: @jane claire

    Some of this changed from the original no prophets….

  77. @Gary in Gramercy
    My first reaction was, "this has to be a fake." (Even if it's not, it's too good to check the NYT. I mean, "Machmud Makhmudov"?)

    My second reaction -- and I think I speak for a significant portion of the iSteve commentariat here -- was, "Oberlin has a baseball team? And recruits for it?"

    And, finally, "this got a Rhodes?"

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Reg Cæsar, @Forbes, @Frau Katze

    Third reaction would be: Some guy named Machmud Makhmudov wanted to play college baseball? WTF?

  78. @Cagey Beast
    @kihowi

    It's not our Oxford anymore, apparently. I have a great-aunt who went to Oxford in the 1950s but apparently it's not part of my cultural inheritance. Oxford now belongs to this Uzbek more than it does me. I need to grow up and deal with it.

    As for the Rhodes scholarship, when failed American ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul was applying for a Rhodes Scholarship:


    .... his interviewer took note that McFaul, along with an intelligent and rambunctious classmate named Susan Rice, had helped lead the anti-apartheid movement on the Stanford campus. They occupied a building, campaigned for divestment. Among McFaul’s academic interests was the range of liberation movements in post-colonial Africa: Mozambique, Zimbabwe, and South Africa. How did McFaul reconcile his desire to study at Oxford on a Rhodes, the interviewer inquired, with the fact that its benefactor, Cecil Rhodes, had been a pillar of white supremacy? What would he do with such “blood money”?

    “I will use it to bring down the regime,” McFaul said. In the event, both he and Rice won the blood money and went to Oxford.
     
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/11/watching-eclipse

    These people think they can continue to run and hold our countries and our institutions as a hostile elite that defines itself in opposition to us? How long do they think that can last?

    Replies: @Forbes

    The interviewer’s questioning reads like historical revisionism. In the late ’80s when McFaul was interviewed, would the Rhodes Scholarship interviewer refer to Cecil Rhodes as a white supremacist?

    Or perhaps that’s how long ago Rhodes legacy was corrupted.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    @Forbes

    No question in my mind that "progressive" and with-it people would have been laughing up their sleeves about taking Cecil Rhodes' money as far back as the '60s. Remember Harold Macmillan's "Winds Of Change" speech had been made all the way back in 1960. It marked the official 189 degree turn on British Africa.

  79. @republic
    @Chris Mallory

    Craig Murray, was the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, got fired because of his opposition to torture in that country. His book, Murder in Samarkand is worth reading. I have been to Uzbekistan, a real police state! I once took a taxi from Tashkent to Samarkand, had to stop ever 10 miles or so to have a full police inspection of the car. A very grim place indeed.

    Replies: @Forbes

    Craig Murray is the British diplomat that also knows who hacked the DNC and gave the emails to Wikileaks–and it wasn’t the Russians, according to Murray.

  80. Cecil is rolling in his grave.

  81. Environmentalists Can Learn from ISIS Occupation

    Actual headline from an op-ed penned by Machmud Makhmudov, in the Oberlin Review.

    https://oberlinreview.org/8597/opinions/environmentalists-can-learn-from-isis-occupation/

  82. @jimbojones
    Machmud's arguments amounts to "it worked great for me and a few others like me so it must be a good thing". Not particularly convincing.

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy

    As the ancient legal doctrine says, “‘for instance’ isn’t proof.’”

  83. @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Tragically Oberlin still operates a cis-binary Athletics Department, diving its Athletics into constructed categories of "Mens" and "Womens" sports. I thought Oberlin was Woke AF too

    Replies: @Alden

    I always assumed Oberlin banned all sports as anti liberal lunacy.

  84. @Chris Mallory

    Uzbekistan’s government has willingly helped us fight terrorism.
     
    If you remember the early days of the war on terror, Uzbekistan was picked as a helper because they were known for their use of torture. Back when Bush the Lesser started using Uzbeki prisons the Uzbek secret police were known for boiling men alive.

    Replies: @republic, @Expletive Deleted

    I suppose Craig Murray will be aquaint with that jolly Scottish legend which involves variously a De Soulis lord of Liddesdale, or the Sheriff Melville of Glenbervie being boiled alive, for rapacious oppression and/or sheer witchery, by the tenantry. Fair go, it was somewhere between AD 1200 and 1420.

  85. @Anonymous
    Ya gotta love this guy's logic. Everyone in the world has an equal right to live in America, and as the NYT has explained several times before, the only exceptions are the ones who were actually born here.

    Presumably once the entire USA resembles Calcutta, they'll stop coming. But the important thing is that the 'Ruling Class' should feel safe, with all the other warring tribes at one another's throats.

    Replies: @Frau Katze

    The odd thing is that I don’t know of any other Western country (or any country whatsoever) that has a diversity lottery.

    So why should the US alone in the world be required to have this?

  86. @Bitfu
    Most important, America is obligated to live up to its promise as a shining city on a hill for aspiring immigrants across the world.

    That statement implies American Exceptionalism, no?

    So we are exceptional after all! When we 'invade the world'--exceptional. We 'invite the world'--exceptional again.

    But wait-- American Exceptionalism is a lie! Critics on the left... have argued that American history is so morally flawed, citing slavery, civil rights and social welfare issues, that it cannot be an exemplar of virtue.

    I am so confused.

    Replies: @Frau Katze

    The never answered question: if the US is as awful as the left thinks it is, why on earth does anyone want to go there?

    I’d really like to see NYT address that.

  87. @Nico
    Once again, the NYT disables comments for an immigration expansion propaganda piece. Th more things change...

    Replies: @Frau Katze

    I wonder if it’s because the NYT editors know some NYT regulars will disapprove of the entire world having a right to live in the USA?

    I notice they’re quick to shut down comments if things aren’t going as expected.

    Why does WSJ allow unvetted comments on every story or op-ed?

  88. @Gary in Gramercy
    My first reaction was, "this has to be a fake." (Even if it's not, it's too good to check the NYT. I mean, "Machmud Makhmudov"?)

    My second reaction -- and I think I speak for a significant portion of the iSteve commentariat here -- was, "Oberlin has a baseball team? And recruits for it?"

    And, finally, "this got a Rhodes?"

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Reg Cæsar, @Forbes, @Frau Katze

    The Soviets forced the Muslim men to add -ov or -ev to their surname. If they didn’t have a surname they needed to think one up.

    Females add -ova or -eva.

    You’d think they drop it now but I suppose that everyone is used to it after all those decades.

  89. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “At a time when groups ranging from state-sponsored media to terrorist organizations denounce the United States as “the Great Satan,” America can’t afford to turn its back on an opportunity to portray itself as an open, tolerant and diverse nation. ”

    Shouldn’t this be an argument against an open immigration policy? Does he actually think it makes sense for a host country to take in foreign people who are programmed to view the host country as “The Great Satan”? Sure, we’ll lose a few thousand people and have to grow accustomed to weekly senseless acts of terrorism as just a ‘normal part of modern life’, but hey, we’ll show them we’re the bigger person. It’s like someone trying to pull a grade school scam on you.

  90. @Elli
    We might be losing the competition.

    "Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen said that by 2036 100 per cent of Canada's population growth will be as a result of immigration, it stands at about 75 per cent today.

    "Canada will welcome nearly one million immigrants over the next three years, according to the multi-year strategy tabled by the Liberal government today in what it calls "the most ambitious immigration levels in recent history." "

    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/immigration-canada-2018-1.4371146

    Replies: @Frau Katze

    The only comfort I can draw is that there’s over 7500 comments with a decidedly negative tone.

    And mainly the left reads CBC.

  91. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    THIS UZBEK LIE. UZBEK PROPAGANDA. ALL KNOW UZBEK HAVE BONE IN THEIR BRAINS. THEY CLAIM THEY DO NOT DRINK HORSE URINE. THEY CLAIMS KHAZIKSTAN DO NOT HAVE SISTER PROSTITUTE. THEY CLAIM KAZAKSTAN IS ACCEPTING ALL RELIGIONS AND IS MODERN. NOW THEY CLAIM UZBEKI IS LOVE PEACE AND UZBEK RELIGION IS PEACE AND UZBEKI IS HARD WORKER AND GOOD CITIZEN AND GOOD FOR US of A. MORE LIES. IF THEY DOES NOT STOP IT, WE WILL HAVE TO SEND THEM MY NEIGHBOR.

  92. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other, and it would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations
     
    Tell that to the signer of the Naturalization Act of 1790, President/General George Washington.

    Tell that to the people who wrote, passed and signed into the law the Immigration Act of 1924.

    It seems like limiting the American dream to residents of certain nations is uniquely American, not un-American.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other, and it would be uniquely un-American to systematically exclude the residents of some nations”

    It’s idiotic. How the heck do they think ‘the American Dream’ became a thing, if not Americans building it. More Magic Dirt I guess.

    When it was coined it referred to an American rising from nothing to prosperity doing it for themselves by pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, not the current day meaning of immigrating here to leech off the American taxpayer while making him a minority in his own country.

  93. @Forbes
    @Cagey Beast

    The interviewer's questioning reads like historical revisionism. In the late '80s when McFaul was interviewed, would the Rhodes Scholarship interviewer refer to Cecil Rhodes as a white supremacist?

    Or perhaps that's how long ago Rhodes legacy was corrupted.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    No question in my mind that “progressive” and with-it people would have been laughing up their sleeves about taking Cecil Rhodes’ money as far back as the ’60s. Remember Harold Macmillan’s “Winds Of Change” speech had been made all the way back in 1960. It marked the official 189 degree turn on British Africa.

  94. @Lucius Somesuch
    @Cagey Beast


    Birds gonna fly, fish gonna swim, Weinsteins gonna Weinstein … but we need to win back our own institutions and police our own people. The people punching the biggest holes in the hull of the West are on our Winter Holiday card list.
     
    --I entirely approve the motion, but for the sake of exactness I thought a clarifying expansion of category was desirable.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast

    Oh no, I most definitely meant to target those who celebrate Christmas. Our biggest problem is our own people. The Hanukkah and Diwali folks can sort themselves out if they choose to.

  95. @Barnard
    @ChrisZ

    That happened a long time ago. Rhodes Scholars have been diversified for at least twenty years now. Poor Cecil never would have imagined that his homeland and the other members of the Empire would invite in third world hordes when he setup the scholarships.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    That happened a long time ago. Rhodes Scholars have been diversified for at least twenty years now. Poor Cecil never would have imagined that his homeland and the other members of the Empire would invite in third world hordes when he setup the scholarships.

    Yep, he was a monumental dumbass.

  96. @Arclight
    It must be almost unbelievable to people outside the US how little our elites do to safeguard the interests of our citizens when it comes to immigration.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Epochehusserl, @ben tillman, @Bragadocious

    It must be almost unbelievable to people outside the US how little our elites do to safeguard the interests of our citizens when it comes to immigration.

    I doubt the people in the UK, France, or Germany are surprised in the least.

  97. @bomag
    @Alec Leamas


    No person has a greater claim to the American dream than any other...
     
    I suspect he meant to say "No foreign person has a greater claim... than any other". Freudian slip indeed, he figures his kin has the chops to rush the open borders ahead of others and expand the brand here in the manner to which he has become accustomed.

    A telling thing here is the manner in which he talks about immigration: as a resource to be exploited. "Come to America! Find a college education! Get a spot on a baseball team! There is money lying around! Come pick some up!"

    Replies: @ben tillman

    I suspect he meant to say “No foreign person has a greater claim… than any other”.

    Absolutely not. That is not what he means.

    Freudian slip indeed, he figures his kin has the chops to rush the open borders ahead of others and expand the brand here in the manner to which he has become accustomed.

    A telling thing here is the manner in which he talks about immigration: as a resource to be exploited. “Come to America! Find a college education! Get a spot on a baseball team! There is money lying around! Come pick some up!”

    He views it as a commons. It has no owner.

    Read Garrett Hardin. And Viscount Ridley.

  98. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    @ChrisZ

    On the contrary, I feel he did an exemplary job arguing for an utterly untenable position. It's like being the attorney for Saipov: What the hell can you say in defense of your client? You take out your violin and play some sweet-sounding music.

    Makhmudov is probably doing well in his studies; he's the sort of clever fellow who would make a good politician. It's easy to imagine him addressing the House of Commons or appearing as a talking head on the BBC News.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    On the contrary, I feel he did an exemplary job arguing for an utterly untenable position.

    He did a pitiful job. I could (though of course I never would) do it 100 times better.

  99. Surely, any non-american populace that wants to live in America need only hold a revolution and adopt a constitution identical to the constitution of the united states?

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    @Dave from Oz

    No chum, they're trying the Australia Method. Pick a spot on the far side of the globe and fill it with your worst crooks.

  100. @Dave from Oz
    Surely, any non-american populace that wants to live in America need only hold a revolution and adopt a constitution identical to the constitution of the united states?

    Replies: @Expletive Deleted

    No chum, they’re trying the Australia Method. Pick a spot on the far side of the globe and fill it with your worst crooks.

  101. @Reg Cæsar
    @J1234


    The underlying theme of all of this is there’s no such thing as culture in the United States.
     
    What culture we may once have had has crumbled almost to powder. Immigrants' desire to come to such a realm, therefore, is highly suspicious.

    They're here for the money. Period.

    Replies: @J1234

    What culture we may once have had has crumbled almost to powder.

    Leftists and conservatives have made this claim at different times in recent history for different reasons. Conservatives today say it’s so as a result of immigration and leftist social indoctrination, via public education and workplace intimidation (among other things.)

    Leftists were saying it as early as the late 1940’s and early 1950’s because the post war affluence of the common people in America was intimidating to them, and seemed to invalidate the Soviet model of championing the proletariat. So the left made up this story that Americans only valued their new cars and careers, and nothing else…hence, “no more culture.” (See the beat “generation”…who weren’t really a generation at all.)

    While it is true that prolonged affluence can insulate common folk from wide variety of things – including culture and reality – it was mostly untrue from the mid-40’s to the mid-60’s. While American culture (as a term with any meaning or depth) may be gone for whites in California and the upper east coast, it can still exist for people in some rural states (save the larger cities in those states, which are forever trying to be like California and the east coast.) But you’re right in that American culture has been abused beyond belief for the last 50 years.

  102. You wouldn’t believe how many fairly ordinary people in the country I live in ask me, “But since America is a nation of immigrants, isn’t it kind of paradoxical to want to restrict immigration?” It’s a stupid question but when stupidity is so widespread because of such widespread stupid (((propaganda))) one must be very delicate. I explain that that is a widely-held notion but we often don’t hear about the reality: that 1. the “nation of immigrants” was at a time when we had a huge frontier, 2. we didn’t let just anyone in at that time and 3. not too long after the frontier was closed, we cut off immigration privileges even to most of those: so yes, immigration restriction even with the intention of maintaining a certain ethnic balance has a great deal of precedent in the United States, contrary to what is said in the (((press)))*.

    *Yes, I am aware that it is not just the ((())) element knowingly selling this lie but since that element is the principal short-, mid- AND long-term beneficiary of this destruction it is worth pointing out the fifth column every single chance one gets.

  103. @Arclight
    It must be almost unbelievable to people outside the US how little our elites do to safeguard the interests of our citizens when it comes to immigration.

    Replies: @Cagey Beast, @Epochehusserl, @ben tillman, @Bragadocious

    It certainly must seem that way to Argentina!

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