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Amy Harmon in NYT: Science Proves the Race Glass Isn't Part Full. Instead, the Concept of Race Is ... Part Empty!
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From the New York Times news section by science denialist Amy Harmon, who is the Angela Saini of America:

Can Biology Class Reduce Racism?

By Amy Harmon
Dec. 7, 2019

COLORADO SPRINGS — Biology textbooks used in American high schools do not go near the sensitive question of whether genetics can explain why African-Americans are overrepresented as football players and why a disproportionate number of American scientists are white or Asian.

But in a study starting this month, a group of biology teachers from across the country will address it head-on. They are testing the idea that the science classroom may be the best place to provide a buffer against the unfounded genetic rationales for human difference that often become the basis for racial intolerance.

At a recent training in Colorado, the dozen teachers who had volunteered to participate in the experiment acknowledged the challenges of inserting the combustible topic of race and ancestry into straightforward lessons on the 19th-century pea-breeding experiments of Gregor Mendel and the basic function of the strands of DNA coiled in every cell.

… Race, a social concept bound up in culture and family, is not a topic of study in modern human population genetics, which typically uses concepts like “ancestry” or “population” to describe geographic genetic groupings.

For example, well … well … they never use examples of how “ancestry” or “population” is totally different from what the federal government calls race.

But that has not stopped many Americans from believing that genes cause racial groups to have distinct skills, traits and abilities. And among some biology teachers, there has been a growing sense that avoiding any direct mention of race in their genetics curriculum may be backfiring.

“I know it’s threatening,” said Brian Donovan, a science education researcher at the nonprofit BSCS Science Learning who is leading the study. “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

Yet there is a rising concern that genetic misconceptions are playing into divisive American attitudes about race.

In a 2018 survey of 721 students from affluent, majority-white high schools, Dr. Donovan found that one in five agreed with statements like “Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”

A similar percentage of white American adults attribute the black-white income gap to genetic differences, according to an estimate by a team of sociologists published this fall. Though rarely acknowledged in debates over affirmative action or polling responses, “belief in genetic causes of racial inequality remains widespread in the United States,” wrote Ann Morning, of New York University, and her colleagues.

Any alternative explanations to the Occam’s Butterknife conspiracy theory of White Privilege must be rooted out by all means necessary.

For his part, Dr. Donovan has argued that grade-school biology classes may offer the only opportunity to dispel unfounded genetic explanations for racial inequality on a mass scale. Middle schools and high schools are the first, and perhaps the only, place that most Americans are taught about genetics.

The new curriculum acknowledges there are minor genetic differences between geographic populations loosely correlated to today’s racial categories. But the unit also conveys what geneticists have reiterated: People inherit their environment and culture with their genes, and it is a daunting task to disentangle them. A key part of the curriculum, Dr. Donovan said, is teaching students to “understand the limits of our knowledge.’’

In contrast, the Theory of Intersectionality is unlimited.

In the pilot study that helped Dr. Donovan secure a research grant from the National Science Foundation, students in eight classrooms exposed to a rudimentary version of the curriculum were less likely than others to endorse statements suggesting that racial groups have defining qualities that are determined by genes. The new study will measure the curriculum’s effect on such attitudes by asking students to fill out surveys before and after the unit. …

For the trainees, from five states and seven school districts, much of the opening morning was devoted to brainstorming how to check in with students, especially black students, who seem defensive or scared, sullen or silent, and how to recognize the unit’s fraught nature.

“Something like ‘These ideas are dangerous, and ‘How do we have a safe conversation about unsafe ideas?’” one teacher said. “But I would have to practice it so I don’t choke up like I am now.’’

Before breaking for lunch, Dr. Donovan, a former middle school science teacher who studied under the Stanford population geneticist Noah Rosenberg while pursuing a science education Ph.D., had a message for them: “If you back out at the end of this,” he said, “I’ll understand.”

Nature, Nurture, the Liberal Agenda

The lessons are structured around two fictional teenagers, Robin and Taylor, who both understand that the differences between the DNA in any two people make up about one-tenth of 1 percent of their genome. But they disagree about how those differences intersect with race.

Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.

As human populations spread around the globe, with people living in relative isolation for millenniums, some differences emerged. But the genetic variation between groups in, say, Africa and Europe are much smaller than the differences within each group.

Taylor, who had downplayed the significance of race, eventually had to admit there were some proportionally small differences between population groups. And Robin had to acknowledge having vastly overemphasized the amount of DNA differences between races.

But the two fictional teenagers still clashed over the opening question. Robin believed that there are genes for athletic or intellectual abilities, and that they are the best explanation for racial disparities in the National Football League and in the worlds of math and science. Taylor said genes had nothing to do with it.

Again, neither was completely right.

In their typical classes, the teachers said, they highlight traits driven by single genes — the texture of peas, or a disease like cystic fibrosis. It is an effective way to convey both how traits are transmitted from one generation to another, and how alterations in DNA can produce striking consequences.

But such traits are relatively rare. In Dr. Donovan’s curriculum, students are taught that thousands of variations in DNA influence a more common trait like height or IQ. Only a small fraction of the trait differences between individuals in the same ancestry group has been linked to particular genes. Unknown factors and the social and physical environment — including health, nutrition, opportunity and deliberate practice — also influence trait development. And students are given data about how racism has produced profoundly different environments for black and white Americans.

For Robin, the lessons said, grasping the complexity of it all made it impossible to argue that there was a gene, or even a few genes, specifically for athletics or intelligence, or that the cumulative effect of many genes could make a definitive difference.

And yet, on whiteboards, teachers listed comments and questions they anticipated from real students, including one that recurred in various forms.

“Isn’t this just a liberal agenda?”

Dr. Donovan told teachers that the curriculum also counters the viewpoint represented by Taylor — that ability is affected only by “how you’re raised, the opportunities you have, the choices you make and the effort you put in.” Recent studies, they are told, show that genetic variants play some role in shaping differences between individuals of the same population group.

Teachers participating in the training said that student beliefs about racial genetic differences at their schools surface in offhand pronouncements about who can dance and who is smart. They also lurk, some suggested, behind the expressions of intolerance that have recently marked many American schools. And what students learn about human genetic variation, teachers said, can lead to misguided conclusions: “They know DNA causes differences in skin color,” said a teacher from Washington State, “and they make the logical jump that DNA causes ‘race.’”

Class time in which to dispel confusion is limited. “It’s always like ‘O.K., but now we’re going to start the lesson on peas,’” said a Kansas teacher. Pent-up curiosity, said one from Indiana, routinely arises in year-end surveys: “I’m wondering if you know any resources where I could learn more about the genetics behind race,” one of her juniors wrote last spring.

Curiosity is the enemy.

… And 21st-century geneticists looking for clues to human evolution and medicine in the DNA of people from around the world took pains to note that they were not studying “race.”

“We basically decided, no, race is still a social construction, it’s not a biological thing,” Ken Miller, an author of the widely used Prentice Hall biology textbook, told the science magazine Undark of the decision to omit mention of race.

Amy Harmon is a national correspondent, covering the intersection of science and society. She has won two Pulitzer Prizes, for her series “The DNA Age”, and as part of a team for the series “How Race Is Lived in America.”

Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003? What’s the biology teachers’ explanation?

From the reader comments on Harmon’s article in the NYT:

Freshman
Colorado 2h ago
Times Pick

I am a college freshman who participated in this study as a high school senior last year. Dr. Donovan and his team came to my high school and helped teach us the curriculum from this study.

I had mixed feelings after I completed the study. On the positive side, I broke down some important misconceptions I had about “race”. For example, I was unaware of how genetically similar humans were prior to the study.

However, I was not a fan of the curriculum. First, I felt that the curriculum was painfully long and drawn-out for a second-year, AP/IB senior-level biology course. The entire process took about 1-3 months; in reality, I felt that simply being lectured about the topics in 1-2 days would have been plenty sufficient. It’s not like we were taking DNA tests to prove the stated learning outcomes of the curriculum nor were we reading peer-reviewed scientific papers; we were often given large packets that described different claims made by fictional students about race and genetics and asked to evaluate the fictional student’s claim by making diagrams with squares, triangles, and Venn diagrams. In the end, we had a class discussion about the right answers and claims without much discussion about the evidence (as in specific scientific papers). I was not skeptical of the correct claims, but I felt that the “learning outcomes” of each lesson were meant to help us answer the survey better the next time we took it – not necessarily change the fundamental beliefs in the skeptical.

iSteve commenter Calvin Hobbes notes:

NYT: “ [Fictional teenager] Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.”

So fictional teenager Taylor starts out as a retard, since that’s obviously false.

NYT: “[Fictional teenager] Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.“

So fictional teenager Robin also starts out as a retard, since that’s also obviously false.

NYT: “For Robin [after being fictionally enlightened], the lessons said, grasping the complexity of it all made it impossible to argue that there was a gene, or even a few genes, specifically for athletics or intelligence, or that the cumulative effect of many genes could make a definitive difference.“

After fictional enlightenment about race, fictional teenager Robin thinks that many genes can’t have much of a cumulative effect, since it’s all so complex, and so fictional teenager Robin is still a retard.

I’m sure actual students taking this course will appreciate course material built around fictional discussions by fictional retards.

 
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  1. The face of anti-white privilege:

    • Replies: @trelane
    Amy would profit from the services of an African American orthodontist, hair stylist, ophthalmologist, clothing advisor, fitness trainer and lifestyle coach.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Looks like a Jap from a WWII poster.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/0c/27/510c27c807411865cefbdf2ff18232d5.jpg
    , @PiltdownMan
    Amy Harmon wrote this article in January this year. One of the highlighted reader comments is by a black guy who disagrees with the premises of the article.

    James Watson Had a Chance to Salvage His Reputation on Race. He Made Things Worse.

    , @Jane Plain
    You aimed low and missed.
    , @Moses
    Physiognomy is real.
    , @Ed
    Wait a minute that’s Amy Harmon? What a scam. Her Twitter ability is darker than she is in real life.
    , @Cowboy Shaw
    No civilisation can survive being lectured to by people like this. Eventually someone just walks in and grabs the throne.
  2. This amusing site lists the NFL teams by most white players.

    A schism is developing with defenses trending towards more blacks than offense.

    http://castefootball.us/index.php?threads/2018-nfl-teams-overall-whiteness.36963/

    • Replies: @Lot
    Interesting forum. If Steve hasn’t seen it before, we might lose him for a few days.

    The baseball page has an article as follows:

    “Three decades after [US born] blacks made up nearly 30 percent of major league rosters, they now make up about 8 percent-less than half the 17.25 percent of 1959, the first year every team was integrated.”
  3. Well, Steve, only subhuman deplorables like us would care about American football.
    Besides,pointing out differences between populations is racist!

  4. Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003?
    Environment.

    It is because of the overwhelming and pervasive racism that blacks have confronted since 1619 and which is getting much worse every year. In order to survive, blacks must anticipate and react to racism 24/7 which means that their environment preconditions them to be super adept at anticipation and reaction.

    • LOL: Yngvar
  5. “ Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003?”

    1. Racism by whites
    2. Stereotype threat
    3. Lack of interest in football by whites
    4. White privilege causes whites to focus on the more prestigious and glamorous DL positions.
    5. Legacy of slavery
    6. Donald Trump

    Save answers 1, 2, 5, and 6 for other questions, like “Why did one high school in Budapest produce more great scientists in 20 years than all of subsaharan Africa over all of recorded history?” and “Why does Denmark with 6 million people have a larger economy than Bangladesh with 161 million people?”

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • LOL: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Lot
    Article re: my Budapest high school reference:

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/xPJKZyPCvap4Fven8/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science

    This brings up the idea of cloning some of these guys and giving them to high IQ couples who are infertile and want to adopt.

    Top 1% IQ of the USA is 3.3 million people. Let’s say 3% are infertile and 10% of that 3% are married and of an appropriate age to raise children and want to do so. That’s about 10,000 potential parents for clones of history-making scientists.

    I think it’s worth a shot. I’d sign up if I were in that situation.

    I believe this is more realistic than genetic engineering of genius babies.

    , @Carroll Price
    Excuse my ignorance, but when did subsaharan Africa ever produce a great scientist?
  6. From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.

    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth — there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) — the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Yes, it's like Sir Walter's line "Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
    When first we practise to deceive!
    , @Desiderius
    Yup.

    Second worst thing a teacher can do is lie. If teaching is your career then at least half the class are already better liars than you are.
    , @Cowboy Shaw
    Yes, the truth is kind of difficult to explain and understand, but the lie is now becoming such a tangled whopper almost no one can understand it. That is possibly the only good news out of this thoroughly depressing article by a very influential woman who is clearly quite mad.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country

    (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!)
     
    You Boomers just won't let go. This the race realist CivNat version of "But my best friend is black so I can't be a racist."

    You're as bad as the lying teacher. Actually, you're worse. You're smart enough to be a far more nuanced liar. You guide the student halfway and then trick him.

    Regression to the mean means that YES you can judge an individual on his race - if your interaction with that individual will extend to his family or over multiple generations.

    You know this, yet you feign stupidity to avoid thinking of yourself as racist, like that meany Citizen.

    Dave is more than happy to welcome that nice black couple into his neighborhood. After all, they're nice and reasonably bright. The husband was in the army and the wife works at the school. What kind of evil racist would not want them in their neighborhood? Not Dave. He judges individuals on their own merits, not the color their skin, like that meany racist Citizen.

    Hmm. But then nice black couple has kids, and while not as low-IQ or violent as your typical blacks, they aren't quite as nice as nice or as smart as the parents. Then the niece moves in due to some family problems in the hood. She's not bad but her boyfriend who comes to visit is definitely sketchy looking.

    Then another black family moves in because they heard about the first black family and the welcome that they got from Dave. They're also pretty nice, though not quite as nice as the first family. And their kids seem to get into trouble quite a bit. But, don't worry, Dave will judge them as individuals.

    Twenty years later the neighborhood is a disaster and whites running as fast as they can. But don't worry, nobody would ever call Dave a racist and that's what's important.

    Yes, Tom Sowell is smarter than the average white. So what. Sowell's children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will move to the black mean (unless they either marry whites - destroying my people - or only interbred among other smart blacks, in which case they will just as racist as I am.)

    Let's all say it together: Regression to the mean means that in general, YES, you should judge an individual on their race if your interactions with them will extend to their family or be over multiple generations.
    , @Ben tillman
    Actually, it is not true that Robin’s view is false. The truth or falsity of the first part of her view depends on the definition of “small”. The second part of her view is clearly true.
    , @AnotherDad

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.
     
    They didn't/don't want mundame honesty. This lying is all in service of the great minoritarian project.


    Honestly this is all square peg, round hole stuff:

    -- Trivial math shows that two populations will not be exactly the same on any trait in which there is individual variance. (I.e. five fingers--sure. Height--no.)

    -- And if you believe in natural selection then populations that are separate environments ... must ... vary genetically.

    -- And for humans our brains--intelligence/personality traits--is our number one survival advantage. Selection ought to be most powerful on that. The only other thing in the ballpark would disease resistance.

    -- So what you're left with is ... "not enough time". Which is both mathematically false and obviously false because there are clear differences in very visible physical traits.

    Bottom line: The extent of these racial/ethnic differences--how selection has actually worked--is an open empirical question. But the "no such thing as race" or "no differences that are not politically correct" is an open anti-scientific lie.


    This whole incoherent, illogical nonsense is just there to serve the minoritarian--anti-national, anti-white-gentile--project. No one would even try to sell this bucket of shit if they weren't committed to or steeped in minoritarian ideology.
    , @Mr. Rational

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth — there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) — the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.
     
    This gets at the way that the truth about HBD including the genetic basis of race has been leaking out.  "Race is a social construct" no longer passes the laugh test.  The Overton window is moving toward the truth, and the equalists are now being forced to make admissions against interest—which they obfuscate, but they have to make them nonetheless.

    One of the things they had to bury (because denying it outright is too damning) is that we've had firm data on the nature/nurture contributions for over 40 years now.  The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study found that IQ tracks the proportion of African vs. Caucasian genes.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.
     
    Honesty in academia has been dead since the rise of Boasian anthropology and Marxism.  Any and all Narrative-compliant instruction is malpractice.  It is indoctrination, not education.

    When this indoctrination breaks down, the backlash is going to be epic.
    , @Mr. Rational

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth — there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) — the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.
     
    This gets at the way that the truth about HBD including the genetic basis of race has been leaking out.  "Race is a social construct" no longer passes the laugh test.  The Overton window is moving toward the truth, and the equalists are now being forced to make admissions against interest—which they obfuscate, but they have to make them nonetheless.

    One of the things they had to bury (because denying it outright is too damning) is that we've had firm data on the nature/nurture contributions for over 40 years now.  The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study found that IQ tracks the proportion of African vs. Caucasian genes.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.
     
    Honesty in academia has been dead since the rise of Boasian anthropology and Marxism.  Any and all Narrative-compliant instruction is malpractice.  It is indoctrination, not education.

    When this indoctrination breaks down, the backlash is going to be epic.
    , @Hibernian
    Agree.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country

    (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!)
     
    Sorry, but this sounds like the race realist CivNat version of "My best friend is black so I'm not a racist."

    Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that while there are group differences, we shouldn't judge individuals by their race because there is so much overlap. What's more, you also seem to be implying that those that do are, in fact, racist, a term which despite being overused by the Left is still a bad thing.

    I beg to differ. I believe that you should judge an individual by their race if 1) you will be dealing with anyone in this person's family (especially extended family) or 2) you and your people will be dealing with this person and their prodigy beyond one generation.

    Regression to the mean.

    Regression to the mean says that this individual's extended family will be closer the race's mean. It also means that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be closer to the race's mean unless they go to great lengths to avoid such an outcome which, by definition, is only available to a few so it doesn't matter in general.

    My apologies if this isn't your view, but I'm sick of race realist CivNats failing to connect the obvious dots.
  7. I bet this chick would be calling in the cavalry if her car broke down in a black hood at midnight.

    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    Do you really think she would ever be in a black neighborhood at midnight?
  8. @Anonymous
    This amusing site lists the NFL teams by most white players.

    A schism is developing with defenses trending towards more blacks than offense.



    http://castefootball.us/index.php?threads/2018-nfl-teams-overall-whiteness.36963/

    Interesting forum. If Steve hasn’t seen it before, we might lose him for a few days.

    The baseball page has an article as follows:

    “Three decades after [US born] blacks made up nearly 30 percent of major league rosters, they now make up about 8 percent-less than half the 17.25 percent of 1959, the first year every team was integrated.”

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Steve was referencing that site in a few posts back in the mid 2000's time frame if memory serves. That was a long time before he went to Unz, I read them.
    , @Anon
    Minority baseball players tend to come from places like the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico these days. They play better ball than the blacks do, so they get recruited in place of blacks.
    , @bigdicknick
    what's their methodology for determining blackness? Pretty much all dominican players are at least part black although they often do not identify as black.
  9. @MikeatMikedotMike
    The face of anti-white privilege:

    http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwmu/files/styles/x_large/public/201611/111716_KM_slotaamyharmon.JPG

    Amy would profit from the services of an African American orthodontist, hair stylist, ophthalmologist, clothing advisor, fitness trainer and lifestyle coach.

    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
    And a Jamaican gigolo too.
  10. One of my biggest regrets in undergrad was not pointing out my professor’s bullshit in an evolution class. In a previous lecture we went over the complications there are in defining species and how ultimately it was a conceptual term of utility to describe differences caused by evolutionary forces. We then in the next lecture went over how, sure, Sub-saharan Africans have higher rates of sickle cell because of natural selection and sure you can map out different populations with different gene frequencies but we are gonna define race as this certain genetic threshold so really the term race is reserved for these two identical looking populations of birds. Because racism!

    • Replies: @Dr. X
    Yep.

    The meme that left-wing P.C. bullshit doesn't exist in STEM disciplines is false.
    , @lavoisier
    Ask Jerry Coyne!

    He was a profile in courage in his defense of James Watson!
  11. Anon[109] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s clear that these people are getting extremely uncomfortable with the public’s growing interest in genetics. So much for “I ****** love science!”

    I suspect that they’ll have a bigger problem on their hands soon. The rise of 23andMe and its competitors is likely to have some very interesting social implications. For the first time in the history of humanity, it is possible for anyone to easily and cheaply identify his genetic heritage. This really is something new under the sun. In the past these things lived in the realm of family lore, where the truth was mixed with silly legends and uncomfortable facts were suppressed. Not possible anymore.

    Beyond simply showing ancestry and family relations, these services provide raw data that can be run through tools like Promethease for more fine-grained analysis. And those tools will steadily improve as GWAS results pile up.

    These things are quite new and remain novelties…for the moment. But more and more people are walking around with genetic information that they never had before, and it is going to make them think.

    • Agree: houston 1992
    • Replies: @anon

    I suspect that they’ll have a bigger problem on their hands soon. The rise of 23andMe and its competitors is likely to have some very interesting social implications. For the first time in the history of humanity, it is possible for anyone to easily and cheaply identify his genetic heritage. This really is something new under the sun. In the past these things lived in the realm of family lore, where the truth was mixed with silly legends and uncomfortable facts were suppressed. Not possible anymore.
     
    If you read Carly Simon's biography, the reader is struck with the notion that Carly and her mom acted like crazy black ladies. Lack of commitment to marriage, and bizarre relationships stemming from that.

    Example: Carly found a secret crawl hole in her parents mansion that her mother utilized to sneak her personal trainer into her bedroom at night. Carly herself is known to be pretty crazy. To this day, James Taylor refuses to speak to her.

    I think the major genetic trait of subsaharan blacks might be lack of conscientiousness. You can have a lower IQ, to a point, and still make your way in the world well enough if that is an functional, operative trait.

    Sans that trait, almost regardless of IQ, rest assured, your life is gonna be a shitshow.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpLNkuVCp8g
    , @Hans
    109, Old (((Suze Wojcicki))) won't even provide honest viewer counts at (((Youtube))) so counting on (((Ann 23&Me Wojciciki))) not to fiddle the findings is a long shot.

    The Brin-Wojcicki's - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbrhkUSVAAUSmCp.jpg

  12. Raaaacist!

    Why, no, I am actually an ancestry groupist.

    Same thing!

    What’s in a name? That which we call a race
    By any other name would smell as sweet;

    • Agree: houston 1992
  13. @Lot
    “ Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003?”

    1. Racism by whites
    2. Stereotype threat
    3. Lack of interest in football by whites
    4. White privilege causes whites to focus on the more prestigious and glamorous DL positions.
    5. Legacy of slavery
    6. Donald Trump

    Save answers 1, 2, 5, and 6 for other questions, like “Why did one high school in Budapest produce more great scientists in 20 years than all of subsaharan Africa over all of recorded history?” and “Why does Denmark with 6 million people have a larger economy than Bangladesh with 161 million people?”

    Article re: my Budapest high school reference:

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/xPJKZyPCvap4Fven8/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science

    This brings up the idea of cloning some of these guys and giving them to high IQ couples who are infertile and want to adopt.

    Top 1% IQ of the USA is 3.3 million people. Let’s say 3% are infertile and 10% of that 3% are married and of an appropriate age to raise children and want to do so. That’s about 10,000 potential parents for clones of history-making scientists.

    I think it’s worth a shot. I’d sign up if I were in that situation.

    I believe this is more realistic than genetic engineering of genius babies.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    That’s about 10,000 potential parents for clones of history-making scientists.
     
    Prospective genius babies do not necessarily do better by being raised by non-related but brilliant adoptive parents.
    , @Anon
    Worst possible example. Hungarian scientists became a handful after breaking up with Wien. They went to way of the dodo once the Jews left and the Soviets arrived. Precisely zero significant Hungarian scientists were educated or worked in Hungary, since the sixties.

    Hungarians are the best example of the power of environment over genes.
  14. “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

    “Those darn kids! Reading hate on the Internet! We have to do something! Now!”

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

    “Those darn kids! Reading hate on the Internet! We have to do something! Now!”

     

    Of course, most folks make the usual sense of race by just looking at real life around them and making the usual rational choices.

    As for those reading the internet for scientific points of view, they will get a mix of BS commentary and anti-woke rational data which will wake them up.

    So, yeah, the bright ones gonna know what's up. And that is unacceptable!
    , @Anon
    Any bright kid who has been reading up on this stuff online is going to be able to run circles around these "science" teachers.

    But it sounds like they are trying to filter out the "troublemakers" with the full blown IRB human subjects research disclosure stuff. When they say that the class might cause damage to your psyche, the implication is anything you say will be evaluated through a social justice lens of speech violence, and your principal will be informed, drill possible college admissions collateral damage.
    , @lavoisier

    The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …
     
    Do not worry. Dr. Donovan, science educator, is there to provide that much needed scientifically based and fact-filled guidance!
  15. I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but I guess being a great football player has a lot to do with size and strength, general overall fitness…and; sadly enough in the US during slavery we bred black men for exactly those traits…

    I don’t think in Africa a football team would look quite the same as an African-American football team does today.

    Of course, track stars need exactly the opposite traits: slim body frames. Which probably explains why most of the winners of the US marathons now are from Kenya and similarly situated countries where slimmer body builds are the norms…

    Now how does this translate into IQ/brain differences I think is still an open question which still needs to be resolved. Is it issues of nutrition, heredity, structural/cultural impediments to educational opportunities, employment or some combination of all of them.

    More research is needed…

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    It's amazing how often sports oddsmakers and line setters are right, and how often nytimes writers are wrong; Only one of them puts their money where their mouth is. Jimmy the Greek naming the love that dare not speak its name:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzB7IsmOegE

    , @Uhh
    There's no definite proof that New World slaveowners deliberately bred their slaves for those traits. Nor was there any selection pressure in effect during their crossing of the Atlantic. Around 15% of them died en route, which is a big number, but not enough to affect selection.

    Selective slave breeding might sound plausible and has been around as an idea for a long time, parroted by smart but uneducated men (Jimmy the Greek!), but it's untrue.

    The genetic athletic potential of West African populations, where the majority of New World blacks derive from, is more or less the same. North American blacks benefit from better training facilities, training techniques, coaches, PEDs; that's why you still see some disparity in their results vs West Africans, e.g. in sprinting. OTOH, you don't even need shoes to run long distances, so Kenyan dominance in long distance running has reached critical mass (and it still took them a few decades to make it).

    Same goes for intelligence. Just like your sprinting ability, there's a hard ceiling you'll never surpass. No known environmental effects can raise that ceiling. You can argue semantics, but you can't explain away averaged results of millions of people over many decades.
  16. @MikeatMikedotMike
    The face of anti-white privilege:

    http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwmu/files/styles/x_large/public/201611/111716_KM_slotaamyharmon.JPG

    Looks like a Jap from a WWII poster.

    [MORE]

    • LOL: Herbert West
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    No doubt! Great observation.
    , @Xenos
    Amy Harmon is a JAP, not a Jap.
  17. anon[282] • Disclaimer says:

    This is the Establishment’s response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?

    The more sophisticated lefties see the writing on the wall, so now they’re performing focus group trials on smart HS kids to see what type of curriculum/indoctrination will allow them to step-down off the ledge from their soon-to-be falsifiable beliefs while still maintaining that the racists were clearly wrong.

    So sure, there are some shades of grey. It’s all very messy, you see. But the racists were clearly further from the Truth.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    This. Also, given the classes subjected to the indoctrination in the NYT piece, the purpose is to give cover to the future upper caste of society to justify a continuation of affirmative action and diversity training on the grounds that we haven't been at decolonization long enough to unlock the natural - and probably superior - potential of the oppressed.

    Meanwhile, students of the oppressed classes probably barely register the arguments being made and just rely on their own observations about who is smarter, works harder, etc. and continues to give inconvenient answers on surveys.
    , @craig
    "This is the Establishment’s response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?"

    They'll do what they always do: double down. White people are irredeemably villainous and must be suppressed. Because of Science! This fact of Science! does not apply to (((white))) people, of course.
    , @lavoisier

    This is the Establishment’s response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?
     
    They are not going to back down from their belief that there is no such thing as race. Their belief in the fundamental equality of all people is central to their sense of self-worth. Absent this totemic illusion they would realize that they are nothing more than a rag tag bunch of deluded fools clinging to an egalitarian myth to validate their own worth as persons.

    Just as Christian Evangelicals are not going to back down from their belief in Adam and Eve and an Earth that is 6000 years old.

    The left is every bit as ignorant and intolerant as any bible belt fundamentalist.
  18. …the basic function of the strands of DNA coiled in every cell.

    Instead you laid still in the grass
    All coiled up and hissin’
    — REO Speedwagon

    The lessons are structured around two fictional teenagers, Robin and Taylor

    If you want sexual ambiguity, why not just call them Peyton and Payton?

    Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003?

    Not even on the Patriots? That’s some aggressive affirmative action.

    Has Paul Kersey addressed this?

    Curiosity is the enemy.

    Always has been.

    In the pilot study that helped Dr. Donovan secure a research grant…

    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "The lessons are structured around two fictional teenagers, Robin and Taylor."

    My my, what sexually ambiguous names you have, Robin and Taylor! When you met, did you make sure to reveal your personal pronouns to each other? Do the curriculum writers refer to you as 'he', 'she', 'xi', or what?
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    There's only one Universal Soldier, my friend:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrZStlOJxw
    , @lavoisier
    Thanks for the animal cruelty picture.

    NOT.
  19. NYT: “ [Fictional teenager] Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.”

    So fictional teenager Taylor starts out as a retard, since that’s obviously false.

    NYT: “[Fictional teenager] Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.“

    So fictional teenager Robin also starts out as a retard, since that’s also obviously false.

    NYT: “For Robin [after being fictionally enlightened], the lessons said, grasping the complexity of it all made it impossible to argue that there was a gene, or even a few genes, specifically for athletics or intelligence, or that the cumulative effect of many genes could make a definitive difference.“

    After fictional enlightenment about race, fictional teenager Robin thinks that many genes can’t have much of a cumulative effect, since it’s all so complex, and so fictional teenager Robin is still a retard.

    I’m sure actual students taking this course will appreciate course material built around fictional discussions by fictional retards.

    • LOL: bomag, TWS
    • Replies: @MikeCLT
    Please post this on NYT website.
  20. Pent-up curiosity, said one from Indiana, routinely arises in year-end surveys:

  21. “one-tenth of 1 percent of their genome”

    ..which consists of three billion nucleotides.

  22. “Your coworkers have accused you of being a racist.”

    “That’s absurd. I don’t have a racist bone in my body. I’m a populationist.”

    • LOL: Rosie
  23. @MikeatMikedotMike
    The face of anti-white privilege:

    http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwmu/files/styles/x_large/public/201611/111716_KM_slotaamyharmon.JPG

    Amy Harmon wrote this article in January this year. One of the highlighted reader comments is by a black guy who disagrees with the premises of the article.

    James Watson Had a Chance to Salvage His Reputation on Race. He Made Things Worse.

  24. She proves her mind is mostly empty and her character is totally empty.

    It’s a job. Professional liar. When they work in advertising, publicity department, or intelligence services, Okay I get it.

    But when they work for journalism, it’s a real shame.

    • Agree: bomag
  25. Anon[602] • Disclaimer says:

    Harmon links to a study by Rosenberg, et al., that she describes as “invoking statistical models to argue that health disparities between black and white Americans are more readily explained by environmental effects such as racism than the DNA they inherited from ancestors.”

    I thinks she misrepresents the paper. It’s not an attempt to explain health disparities. It’s a high-level theoretical and conceptual theory to discredit GWAS research in general (a popular progressive tactic these days, ever since epigenetics kind of fizzled out), with a coda that is three paragraphs long at the end applying it to the specific example of health disparities.

    I have a rule that if an advocate for a view gives you an example to support their case, and you can demolish the example, you have destroyed their view, since they are responsible for choosing the best evidence of all for their view, not you.

    The Rosenberg paper is very airy, fluffy, ethereal, theoretical stuff. But the three paragraph health disparities is the only place they get down to brass tacks, and it involves assumptions to make the example tractable that destroy any possibility that their case is convincing. In fact, the second paragraph admits the weakness of the argument in the first paragraph and tries to fix it. How did that not get edited out in peer review?

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    "ever since epigenetics kind of fizzled out"

    Was it disproved, or just shown not to be that important? I found the Epigenetics Revolution fascinating.
  26. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Looks like a Jap from a WWII poster.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/0c/27/510c27c807411865cefbdf2ff18232d5.jpg

    No doubt! Great observation.

  27. I think it’s problematic (to use a trending word) to use a fictional narrative to teach beliefs about biology. Why don’t they just teach the science of genetics? And skip what the fictional Robin and Taylor believe.

    What’s the factoid about humans and chimpanzees–we share 98% of the genetic material?

    If a 2% difference in DNA nets you a chimp, then why wouldn’t 0.1% difference in human DNA net you a genius or a star athlete? Or a dullard?

    They turned HS science education into a form of indoctrination: Memorize this list of accepted beliefs for the final exam.

    Their teaching “equality = sameness,” yet students look around and see differences everywhere.

    • Replies: @dkfg
    "The authorities are lying to you about important things." The sooner students learn that lesson, the better.
  28. @anon
    “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

    "Those darn kids! Reading hate on the Internet! We have to do something! Now!"

    “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

    “Those darn kids! Reading hate on the Internet! We have to do something! Now!”

    Of course, most folks make the usual sense of race by just looking at real life around them and making the usual rational choices.

    As for those reading the internet for scientific points of view, they will get a mix of BS commentary and anti-woke rational data which will wake them up.

    So, yeah, the bright ones gonna know what’s up. And that is unacceptable!

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    the bright ones gonna know what’s up. And that is unacceptable!
     
    The only way to avoid it is to shut down all alternate sources of information.  If (((they))) could get rid of all Darwinian geneticists because Lysenkoism was doctrine, they will certainly try to do it again.  Given the way they're keeping names like Ciaramella off all big social media, they're probably thinking they're succeeding.
  29. “Now Amy, it sounds like you’re strainin’ to do some explainin’.”
    – Ned Flanders

  30. “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.”

    This is the key quote. Perfectly captures the Wokes’ essence: neuroticism, arrogance, and putative moral superiority.

  31. Genetic research has and will reveal truths that can no longer be denied. What if, instead of pretending that stupidity doesn’t exist in large parts humanity, it was viewed as a condition that is capable of amelioration or elimination. A vaccine for mental dullness similar to a vaccine for polio. Our world would be a very different place if average global IQ could be increased by 20-30%.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes this is the Great Hope of the left. That science will finally render all of these concerns (race, gender, class) irrelevant.

    They just need to hold the ideological fort until the scientific cavalry arrives to save them.
  32. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Yes, it’s like Sir Walter’s line “Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
    When first we practise to deceive!

  33. Yet there is a rising concern that genetic misconceptions are playing into divisive American attitudes about race.

    Playing into divisive American attitudes about race? How can there be divisive attitudes about race when diversity is our greatest strength?

  34. NYT Business‏ @nytimesbusiness (on Twitter)
    If your boss is asking for your honest feelings about diversity issues, you should feel absolutely free to provide the critique they desperately need to hear

    James Damore’s Twitter reaction: lol

    Biology teachers who are told to teach about the biology of race should take heed.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    In China during the Mao period, there was a period called "Let 1,000 Flowers Bloom" during which free criticism of the Party and Mao was encouraged - tell us how you really feel, are we doing a good job? Mao then took note of everyone who had spoken critically and had them purged.
  35. @MikeatMikedotMike
    The face of anti-white privilege:

    http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwmu/files/styles/x_large/public/201611/111716_KM_slotaamyharmon.JPG

    You aimed low and missed.

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Disagree: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Your father aimed low as well, but too bad he hit the mark.
  36. @Dtbb
    I bet this chick would be calling in the cavalry if her car broke down in a black hood at midnight.

    Do you really think she would ever be in a black neighborhood at midnight?

  37. @Senator Brundlefly
    One of my biggest regrets in undergrad was not pointing out my professor's bullshit in an evolution class. In a previous lecture we went over the complications there are in defining species and how ultimately it was a conceptual term of utility to describe differences caused by evolutionary forces. We then in the next lecture went over how, sure, Sub-saharan Africans have higher rates of sickle cell because of natural selection and sure you can map out different populations with different gene frequencies but we are gonna define race as this certain genetic threshold so really the term race is reserved for these two identical looking populations of birds. Because racism!

    Yep.

    The meme that left-wing P.C. bullshit doesn’t exist in STEM disciplines is false.

  38. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Yup.

    Second worst thing a teacher can do is lie. If teaching is your career then at least half the class are already better liars than you are.

  39. @Reg Cæsar

    ...the basic function of the strands of DNA coiled in every cell.
     
    Instead you laid still in the grass
    All coiled up and hissin'
    -- REO Speedwagon

    The lessons are structured around two fictional teenagers, Robin and Taylor
     
    If you want sexual ambiguity, why not just call them Peyton and Payton?

    Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003?

     

    Not even on the Patriots? That's some aggressive affirmative action.

    Has Paul Kersey addressed this?

    Curiosity is the enemy.
     
    Always has been.


    https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22821270/20180405/020050/styles/raw/public/processed_images/1522951250-1522951250-2322.jpg?width=725

    In the pilot study that helped Dr. Donovan secure a research grant...

     

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hoEle04qu_U

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UC9pc4U40sI

    “The lessons are structured around two fictional teenagers, Robin and Taylor.”

    My my, what sexually ambiguous names you have, Robin and Taylor! When you met, did you make sure to reveal your personal pronouns to each other? Do the curriculum writers refer to you as ‘he’, ‘she’, ‘xi’, or what?

  40. @Lot
    Interesting forum. If Steve hasn’t seen it before, we might lose him for a few days.

    The baseball page has an article as follows:

    “Three decades after [US born] blacks made up nearly 30 percent of major league rosters, they now make up about 8 percent-less than half the 17.25 percent of 1959, the first year every team was integrated.”

    Steve was referencing that site in a few posts back in the mid 2000’s time frame if memory serves. That was a long time before he went to Unz, I read them.

  41. Anyone (a) following Steve and (b) worth reading can’t afford to be on Twitter.

    Kudos to Murray for charging the pillbox today.

  42. @Lot
    Interesting forum. If Steve hasn’t seen it before, we might lose him for a few days.

    The baseball page has an article as follows:

    “Three decades after [US born] blacks made up nearly 30 percent of major league rosters, they now make up about 8 percent-less than half the 17.25 percent of 1959, the first year every team was integrated.”

    Minority baseball players tend to come from places like the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico these days. They play better ball than the blacks do, so they get recruited in place of blacks.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    They play better ball than the blacks do, so they get recruited in place of blacks.
     
    They ARE blacks. The only difference is their ancestors were sold to a different group of whites than were American blacks. For a number of reasons they like baseball at a young age more than do American blacks. For some reason this is a crisis, but only to dorky cuck white and jewish sportswriters. To normal people, American blacks choosing basketball over baseball is their business and no reason to get excited.

    This guy is a black dude:

    https://foxsports-wordpress-www-prsupports-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/2/2017/10/David-Ortiz_727x727-480x480.jpg
  43. @Forbes
    I think it's problematic (to use a trending word) to use a fictional narrative to teach beliefs about biology. Why don't they just teach the science of genetics? And skip what the fictional Robin and Taylor believe.

    What's the factoid about humans and chimpanzees--we share 98% of the genetic material?

    If a 2% difference in DNA nets you a chimp, then why wouldn't 0.1% difference in human DNA net you a genius or a star athlete? Or a dullard?

    They turned HS science education into a form of indoctrination: Memorize this list of accepted beliefs for the final exam.

    Their teaching "equality = sameness," yet students look around and see differences everywhere.

    “The authorities are lying to you about important things.” The sooner students learn that lesson, the better.

  44. When we win, never forget these people want you dead, broke, your kids raped and brainwashed. And they thinks its funny.

  45. @MikeatMikedotMike
    The face of anti-white privilege:

    http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwmu/files/styles/x_large/public/201611/111716_KM_slotaamyharmon.JPG

    Physiognomy is real.

  46. • Replies: @bomag
    I'm wondering when we will have enough of these cut-and-paste studies:

    How does _______ affect the health of Blacks? complete with the usual disparities in health and crime outcomes.

    I'm waiting for someone to suggest that the solution is replacing Black people with White people 'cause, you know, everyone is equal and interchangeable.

  47. I hate shows, starring and about women. My favorite shows are, in this order, Breaking Bad. The Wire. Dead Wood. Firefly. Better call Saul. And any midwit allowed to escape

  48. @nymom
    I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but I guess being a great football player has a lot to do with size and strength, general overall fitness...and; sadly enough in the US during slavery we bred black men for exactly those traits...

    I don't think in Africa a football team would look quite the same as an African-American football team does today.

    Of course, track stars need exactly the opposite traits: slim body frames. Which probably explains why most of the winners of the US marathons now are from Kenya and similarly situated countries where slimmer body builds are the norms...

    Now how does this translate into IQ/brain differences I think is still an open question which still needs to be resolved. Is it issues of nutrition, heredity, structural/cultural impediments to educational opportunities, employment or some combination of all of them.

    More research is needed...

    It’s amazing how often sports oddsmakers and line setters are right, and how often nytimes writers are wrong; Only one of them puts their money where their mouth is. Jimmy the Greek naming the love that dare not speak its name:

    • Replies: @nymom
    Yes I remember this event when it happened with Jimmy...I only partly agree with him because clearly football didn't even exist at the time of slavery in the US; so that couldn't have been the reason why slave owners wanted very big strong male slaves. Obviously, they were looking for strong farm workers...

    It was just a happy coincidence that the largest group of millionaires in the black community is now comprised of black football players.

    Actually Africans compared to African-Americans are quite a bit smaller.

    I was reading up on some incident in South Africa recently where overnight a squatters' camp was set up on a farmer's land. They called in a group especially formed for this purpose that dismantles these settlements and the group's name was the Red Ants...Not the Lions or the Bulls or anything of that nature but the Red Ants...

    Just thought that was interesting...
  49. All I know is Trump is racist,and if we don’t stop him,the planet is in jeopardy.

  50. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    OT:

    The Moral Hazard of High Child Support for High Earners

    Owen Wilson Pays $25K A Month In Child Support For Daughter He’s Never Met

    By Arielle London

    Maybe in the future he’ll come around.

    Owen Wilson is paying $25,000 a month in child support for his daughter whom he has never even met. The Wedding Crashers actor had a casual five-year relationship with Varunie Vongsvirates who became pregnant with his child, Lyla. At first, Wilson demanded a DNA test to prove his paternity and when the test did just that he stepped up financially, but not emotionally.

    The arrangement between the exes was for an initial payout of $70,000 to cover the night nurse, Vongsvirates’ labor coach, and her legal fees as well. Then there is the monthly agreement that Wilson will pay $25,000 for his daughter’s expenses. That being said, he has not asked for any visitation rights and Varunie has been given sole custody of Lyla.

    While Wilson has not expressed interest in getting to know his first and only daughter, he has two young sons with two separate exes too. He has Robert Ford, who is eight years old and also Finn who is currently five. He had Robert Ford with ex-girlfriend Jade Duell and he shares Finn with Caroline Lindqvist whom he has reportedly become romantically involved with recently.

    According to the Daily Mail, Owen has been a stand-up father to his other two sons, so one has to wonder why he does not want anything to do with his baby girl?

    ttps://www.hotnewhiphop.com/owen-wilson-pays-s25k-a-month-in-child-support-for-daughter-hes-never-met-news.97675.html

    • Replies: @notsaying
    It's the third child to women he wasn't closely attached to, evidently.

    He's 50 years old. When is he going to learn?

    Considering he's supporting two other children and his career wasn't what it was 10 years ago, I am impressed that the judge awarded over $250,000 a year in support. Maybe he's made some good investments through the years. It doesn't look like Hunter Biden's child will have the same luck since he's been out of work since last spring according to his court papers.

    It doesn't seem fair that he's not seeing her. That isn't right.

    There's more about this at the Daily Mail article you mentioned. It is interesting that the little girl turned out pale as can be with blonde hair and blue eyes. The mother is black haired with dark eyes and with the name "Varunie Vongsvirates" she certainly isn't a WASP or anything near it.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7760313/Owen-Wilson-pays-25k-month-upkeep-baby-daughter-hes-never-met.html
    , @AnotherDad
    Not sure your point here?

    That getting impregnated by a celebrity is a really great "career" option for a modestly attractive but talentless young woman?

    The our legal system is abusive toward men? (Men that actually have an income, assets.)


    Owen's got a dime or two more than i do and will probably muddle through, but i have to say that for 300K/year the guy should at least be getting exclusive "sleep over" priviliges plus any additional knock on babies, gratis.
  51. @Lot
    Article re: my Budapest high school reference:

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/xPJKZyPCvap4Fven8/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science

    This brings up the idea of cloning some of these guys and giving them to high IQ couples who are infertile and want to adopt.

    Top 1% IQ of the USA is 3.3 million people. Let’s say 3% are infertile and 10% of that 3% are married and of an appropriate age to raise children and want to do so. That’s about 10,000 potential parents for clones of history-making scientists.

    I think it’s worth a shot. I’d sign up if I were in that situation.

    I believe this is more realistic than genetic engineering of genius babies.

    That’s about 10,000 potential parents for clones of history-making scientists.

    Prospective genius babies do not necessarily do better by being raised by non-related but brilliant adoptive parents.

  52. In the near future, biology class will last for just 2 mintues- and will consist of enraged kids yelling abuse at a photo of Steve Sailer projected on to the wall.

    (Plus, the official biology textbook will have boudoir pics of Caitlyn Jenner and Dr Rachel McKinnon on the cover, and just blank pages on the inside.)

  53. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Looks like a Jap from a WWII poster.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/0c/27/510c27c807411865cefbdf2ff18232d5.jpg

    Amy Harmon is a JAP, not a Jap.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Are you sure? Rumor has it she’s the mysterious Tokyo Nose.

    I find the name offensive so I haven’t googled it.

  54. If a 2% difference in DNA nets you a chimp, then why wouldn’t 0.1% difference in human DNA net you a genius or a star athlete? Or a dullard?

    Well, 0.0004% CO2 in the atmosphere is supposed to destroy the world as we know it, so there…

  55. But that has not stopped many Americans from believing that genes cause racial groups to have distinct skills, traits and abilities…In a 2018 survey of 721 students from affluent, majority-white high schools, Dr. Donovan found that one in five agreed with statements like “Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”

    And yet, without missing a beat, virtually everyone, including most biology teachers, would choose or avoid particular breeds of dogs based on the alleged attributes, physical and behavioral, of those dog breeds, knowing full well the assumptions about the attributes of each breed are largely true.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "And yet, without missing a beat, virtually everyone, including most biology teachers, would choose or avoid particular breeds of dogs** based on the alleged attributes, physical and behavioral, of those dog breeds, knowing full well the assumptions about the attributes of each breed are largely true."

    **See below

    A poster from long ago--name I forgot--on this fine blog once said "In some sense isn’t everything a social construct? I mean the universe is just brute matter and everything else is a construct of the human mind, in particular the process of abstraction and categorization."

    To which I responded...

    Exactly! Race is linked to biology; ethnicity is linked to culture. Race is a biological and social construct. Ethnicity is a social construct. Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices. In a nutshell, race refers to a group of people who possess similar and distinct physical characteristics, while ethnicity refers to a category of people who regard themselves to be different from other groups based on common ancestral, cultural, national, and social experience.

    Furthermore, natural science consists of mental constructs, created with the objective of explaining sensory experience of our world. Human beings affix labels to make sense of our environment. For example, the California spotted owl is an animal, i.e. biological construct. The scientific name of the creature is a human designation—strix occidentalis. That is, binomial nomenclature refers to a formal system, developed by people, to name species. The California owl was not a “California owl” until someone actually and specifically labeled it.

    Men and women had sought, and continue to seek, to explain sensory experience of our world. Thus, we affix labels to make sense of our environment. Race, biology, ethnicity--all are concepts created by human beings as an organizational tool to offer a consistency about the natural world in which they observe. “Canis” refers to a real thing, but human beings designated that term—canis, which means "dog" in Latin, and also refers to their prominent teeth used for killing their prey. Dogs (like cats) did not magically appear as those animals automatically to human beings. People described the characteristics in a manner that made sense to them by developing criteria to differentiate the species in their natural habitats.

    **Breeds are manufactured through selective breeding (artificial selection). A Boston terrier is an explicitly defined animal: the AKC ultimately decides which dog meets the criteria. I am probably stating the obvious here, but geographic isolation, and natural or sexual selection, have resulted in some alleles in human beings being more frequent in some groups compared to human beings, and ancestry determines the distribution of some genes. As far as I know, the major genetic clusters consisted of Europeans/West Asians (whites), sub-Saharan Africans, East Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Native Americans with a discrepancy rate of only 0.14%. It also seems to me that this debate over race as a biological construct--I happen to believe that race is both a biological and social construct--originated in the desire to establish the genetic inferiority of some races compared to others.**
     

    , @Jack D

    Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”
     
    I'm not sure that's really a true statement, even from an HBD perspective. Rather it is some kind of straw man position meant to make HBD look bad. A lot of ghetto youth say that they want to be doctors or lawyers even though they can barely read or do basic math - their ambitions are high but not at all realistic (of course rapper and NBA star are also common ambitions - every youf who is arrested is an "aspiring rapper").

    IQ is certainly linked to genetics but is there an "ambition" gene? What differs not so much are ambitions but g linked traits like the ability to delay gratification and execute long term plans (and the ability to learn abstract material) so that you can actually carry out your ambitions.

  56. @MikeatMikedotMike
    The face of anti-white privilege:

    http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwmu/files/styles/x_large/public/201611/111716_KM_slotaamyharmon.JPG

    Wait a minute that’s Amy Harmon? What a scam. Her Twitter ability is darker than she is in real life.

  57. Blah blah blah blah.

    – Trofim Lysenko!!!! –

    • Replies: @ic1000
    Amy Harmon is a shoe-in for Secretary of Agriculture in the incoming Warren/Sanders/Buttigieg Administration. Under her guidance, grain harvests by American farmers will undergo revolutionary leaps.

    Harmon observed that pea seeds germinated faster when maintained at low temperatures. Instead of erroneously concluding that the plant's ability to respond flexibly to temperature variations was a natural characteristic, Harmon concluded that the low temperature forced its seeds to alter their species.
     
  58. Good God!

    She’s breaking in those teeth for Seabiscuit !!!!!

  59. The “glass is half full or empty” is a question for a small mind, as it implies a closed system with limited possibilities.

  60. A reasonable curriculum would concentrate on the fact that you cannot, from statistical differences, take a conclusion about the differences between two given individuals.
    But the curriculum would at the same time make clear that in our times a lot of publical reasoning is not about individuals, but about collectives – in which case statististical differences are in fact an inevitable part of the reasoning.
    These central problems are not even problems of biology – they would emerge as well if we concentrated on culture.
    They are connected with the strange and perplexing idea that the one and only relevant kind of inequity is statistical inequity between collectives (meaning, there is nothing wrong with 20 percent of Blacks being poor as long as the same number of Whites is poor, too). But this is obviously a matter for the philosophy class, not the biology class.

    • Replies: @Cowboy shaw
    Spot on.
  61. @Xenos
    Amy Harmon is a JAP, not a Jap.

    Are you sure? Rumor has it she’s the mysterious Tokyo Nose.

    I find the name offensive so I haven’t googled it.

    • LOL: Realist
    • Replies: @Xenos
    Well, I have heard the rumor that she was the inspiration for Ellington's "Wokehama Baby".
  62. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Are you sure? Rumor has it she’s the mysterious Tokyo Nose.

    I find the name offensive so I haven’t googled it.

    Well, I have heard the rumor that she was the inspiration for Ellington’s “Wokehama Baby”.

  63. @trelane
    Amy would profit from the services of an African American orthodontist, hair stylist, ophthalmologist, clothing advisor, fitness trainer and lifestyle coach.

    And a Jamaican gigolo too.

  64. @anon
    This is the Establishment's response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?

    The more sophisticated lefties see the writing on the wall, so now they're performing focus group trials on smart HS kids to see what type of curriculum/indoctrination will allow them to step-down off the ledge from their soon-to-be falsifiable beliefs while still maintaining that the racists were clearly wrong.

    So sure, there are some shades of grey. It's all very messy, you see. But the racists were clearly further from the Truth.

    This. Also, given the classes subjected to the indoctrination in the NYT piece, the purpose is to give cover to the future upper caste of society to justify a continuation of affirmative action and diversity training on the grounds that we haven’t been at decolonization long enough to unlock the natural – and probably superior – potential of the oppressed.

    Meanwhile, students of the oppressed classes probably barely register the arguments being made and just rely on their own observations about who is smarter, works harder, etc. and continues to give inconvenient answers on surveys.

  65. @MikeatMikedotMike
    The face of anti-white privilege:

    http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwmu/files/styles/x_large/public/201611/111716_KM_slotaamyharmon.JPG

    No civilisation can survive being lectured to by people like this. Eventually someone just walks in and grabs the throne.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    No civilisation can survive being lectured to by people like this. Eventually someone just walks in and grabs the throne.
     
    Well said Cowboy.

    One of the delusions of these people is that they can "win" in some sort of extended way. They can certainly kill us--and we better wise up or they will. But this ugly dunghill they've conjured up, will not survive.

    It's the old "nature abhors a vacuum" or more on point "natural selection".

    If you let silly women boss you around ... you'll be replaced by men who boss around their women.

    If you don't get your women pregnant ... you'll be replaced by men who get their women--and your women--pregnant.

    If you don't protect your borders ... you'll be replaced by men who cross your border.

    If you believe silly destructive ideas ... you'll be replaced by men who believe rational ideas.

    Basic math. Nature doesn't suffer fools gladly.

  66. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Yes, the truth is kind of difficult to explain and understand, but the lie is now becoming such a tangled whopper almost no one can understand it. That is possibly the only good news out of this thoroughly depressing article by a very influential woman who is clearly quite mad.

  67. @anon
    This is the Establishment's response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?

    The more sophisticated lefties see the writing on the wall, so now they're performing focus group trials on smart HS kids to see what type of curriculum/indoctrination will allow them to step-down off the ledge from their soon-to-be falsifiable beliefs while still maintaining that the racists were clearly wrong.

    So sure, there are some shades of grey. It's all very messy, you see. But the racists were clearly further from the Truth.

    “This is the Establishment’s response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?”

    They’ll do what they always do: double down. White people are irredeemably villainous and must be suppressed. Because of Science! This fact of Science! does not apply to (((white))) people, of course.

  68. …the genetic variation between groups in, say, Africa and Europe are much smaller than the differences within each group…

    It seems like I’ve come across this point a time or two.

  69. @Reg Cæsar

    ...the basic function of the strands of DNA coiled in every cell.
     
    Instead you laid still in the grass
    All coiled up and hissin'
    -- REO Speedwagon

    The lessons are structured around two fictional teenagers, Robin and Taylor
     
    If you want sexual ambiguity, why not just call them Peyton and Payton?

    Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003?

     

    Not even on the Patriots? That's some aggressive affirmative action.

    Has Paul Kersey addressed this?

    Curiosity is the enemy.
     
    Always has been.


    https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22821270/20180405/020050/styles/raw/public/processed_images/1522951250-1522951250-2322.jpg?width=725

    In the pilot study that helped Dr. Donovan secure a research grant...

     

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hoEle04qu_U

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UC9pc4U40sI

    There’s only one Universal Soldier, my friend:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Thanks for two-minute argument for the Hays Code.
  70. @Anonymous
    Blah blah blah blah.

    - Trofim Lysenko!!!! -

    Amy Harmon is a shoe-in for Secretary of Agriculture in the incoming Warren/Sanders/Buttigieg Administration. Under her guidance, grain harvests by American farmers will undergo revolutionary leaps.

    Harmon observed that pea seeds germinated faster when maintained at low temperatures. Instead of erroneously concluding that the plant’s ability to respond flexibly to temperature variations was a natural characteristic, Harmon concluded that the low temperature forced its seeds to alter their species.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Amy Harmon won't allow any Mendelist Morganist wreckers to sabotage any possible Great Leap Forward in education.
  71. I’ve commended “Who We Are and How We Got Here,”David Reich’s 2018 synopsis of recent human evolution, as informed by the burgeoning science of DNA analysis.

    Readers can stop at page 260, when Reich ends his discussion of ancient and modern DNA, changing course to throw Nicholas Wade and others under the bus for thoughtcrime.

    NYT reporter Harmon and science teacher PhD Donovan base their agenda upon opening the book to page 260, and never looking back.

  72. @Calvin Hobbes
    NYT: “ [Fictional teenager] Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.”

    So fictional teenager Taylor starts out as a retard, since that’s obviously false.

    NYT: “[Fictional teenager] Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.“

    So fictional teenager Robin also starts out as a retard, since that’s also obviously false.

    NYT: “For Robin [after being fictionally enlightened], the lessons said, grasping the complexity of it all made it impossible to argue that there was a gene, or even a few genes, specifically for athletics or intelligence, or that the cumulative effect of many genes could make a definitive difference.“

    After fictional enlightenment about race, fictional teenager Robin thinks that many genes can’t have much of a cumulative effect, since it’s all so complex, and so fictional teenager Robin is still a retard.

    I’m sure actual students taking this course will appreciate course material built around fictional discussions by fictional retards.

    Please post this on NYT website.

  73. Steve quotes a NYT commenter who claims that he or she was among the high school seniors who were subjects of Donovan’s experiment:

    I was not a fan of the curriculum. First, I felt that the curriculum was painfully long and drawn-out for a second-year, AP/IB senior-level biology course. The entire process took about 1-3 months; in reality, I felt that simply being lectured about the topics in 1-2 days would have been plenty sufficient.

    Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate courses are designed to be challenging, and they are. For the AP, the yearlong course culminates with sitting for an exam in May. The tests are boxed and shipped to the College Board, where they are graded on a uniform, national 1 to 5 score.

    “3” means “adequate,” e.g. equal to a “C” performance by a freshman or sophomore taking university-level BIO101, “Introduction to Biology.”

    “4” translates to “excellent” and “5” to “outstanding.”

    Many competitive universities will give a course credit for performing at the “5” or “4” level. Talented students who succeed at three or four AP exams can shave a semester off their bachelor’s degree.

    The Donovan/Harmon curriculum consumes at least one-eighth of the classroom time that is available to cover the 8-unit AP Biology syllabus, described here (download the PDF and refer to pages 17-24).
    Unit 1: Chemistry of Life
    Unit 2: Cell Structure and Function
    Unit 3: Cellular Energetics
    Unit 4: Cell Communication and Cell Cycle
    Unit 5: Heredity
    Unit 6: Gene Expression and Regulation
    Unit 7: Natural Selection
    Unit 8: Ecology

    The Donovan/Harmon material is helpful in learning none of these units. With respect to the AP exam, it’s a complete waste of students’ time.

    I’d like to do a study of the effect that adoption of the Donovan/Harmon program has on AP Biology exam scores. Will the NSF fund my proposal?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    Future high school science curriculum:

    9th grade: Earth science, featuring global warming
    10th grade: Biology, featuring human biodiversity denialism
    11th grade: Chemistry, featuring childhood lead poisoning
    12th grade: Physics, featuring calculations performed by the "Hidden Figures" ladies

    , @Steve Sailer
    Advanced Placement courses are loaded with stuff to learn.
  74. Anon[460] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

    "Those darn kids! Reading hate on the Internet! We have to do something! Now!"

    Any bright kid who has been reading up on this stuff online is going to be able to run circles around these “science” teachers.

    But it sounds like they are trying to filter out the “troublemakers” with the full blown IRB human subjects research disclosure stuff. When they say that the class might cause damage to your psyche, the implication is anything you say will be evaluated through a social justice lens of speech violence, and your principal will be informed, drill possible college admissions collateral damage.

  75. Uhh [AKA "Uhh no"] says:
    @nymom
    I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but I guess being a great football player has a lot to do with size and strength, general overall fitness...and; sadly enough in the US during slavery we bred black men for exactly those traits...

    I don't think in Africa a football team would look quite the same as an African-American football team does today.

    Of course, track stars need exactly the opposite traits: slim body frames. Which probably explains why most of the winners of the US marathons now are from Kenya and similarly situated countries where slimmer body builds are the norms...

    Now how does this translate into IQ/brain differences I think is still an open question which still needs to be resolved. Is it issues of nutrition, heredity, structural/cultural impediments to educational opportunities, employment or some combination of all of them.

    More research is needed...

    There’s no definite proof that New World slaveowners deliberately bred their slaves for those traits. Nor was there any selection pressure in effect during their crossing of the Atlantic. Around 15% of them died en route, which is a big number, but not enough to affect selection.

    Selective slave breeding might sound plausible and has been around as an idea for a long time, parroted by smart but uneducated men (Jimmy the Greek!), but it’s untrue.

    The genetic athletic potential of West African populations, where the majority of New World blacks derive from, is more or less the same. North American blacks benefit from better training facilities, training techniques, coaches, PEDs; that’s why you still see some disparity in their results vs West Africans, e.g. in sprinting. OTOH, you don’t even need shoes to run long distances, so Kenyan dominance in long distance running has reached critical mass (and it still took them a few decades to make it).

    Same goes for intelligence. Just like your sprinting ability, there’s a hard ceiling you’ll never surpass. No known environmental effects can raise that ceiling. You can argue semantics, but you can’t explain away averaged results of millions of people over many decades.

  76. You can tell that the teachers at that workshop really don’t want to teach this stuff. They know it’s a minefield; one false step, and their career is over.

    As for Robin and Taylor, the message is muddled. To really get the message across, they should just have tell the kids that the right-thinking member of the pair got into her dream college and the wrong-thinking one got into the Starbucks training center — only to be quickly expelled once her hateful social media activity came to light. That, after all, is how we adults have had our lessons delivered to us these last few years, and I see that it’s been quite effective.

    • Agree: ic1000
  77. @ic1000
    Steve quotes a NYT commenter who claims that he or she was among the high school seniors who were subjects of Donovan's experiment:

    I was not a fan of the curriculum. First, I felt that the curriculum was painfully long and drawn-out for a second-year, AP/IB senior-level biology course. The entire process took about 1-3 months; in reality, I felt that simply being lectured about the topics in 1-2 days would have been plenty sufficient.
     
    Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate courses are designed to be challenging, and they are. For the AP, the yearlong course culminates with sitting for an exam in May. The tests are boxed and shipped to the College Board, where they are graded on a uniform, national 1 to 5 score.

    "3" means "adequate," e.g. equal to a "C" performance by a freshman or sophomore taking university-level BIO101, "Introduction to Biology."

    "4" translates to "excellent" and "5" to "outstanding."

    Many competitive universities will give a course credit for performing at the "5" or "4" level. Talented students who succeed at three or four AP exams can shave a semester off their bachelor's degree.

    The Donovan/Harmon curriculum consumes at least one-eighth of the classroom time that is available to cover the 8-unit AP Biology syllabus, described here (download the PDF and refer to pages 17-24).
    Unit 1: Chemistry of Life
    Unit 2: Cell Structure and Function
    Unit 3: Cellular Energetics
    Unit 4: Cell Communication and Cell Cycle
    Unit 5: Heredity
    Unit 6: Gene Expression and Regulation
    Unit 7: Natural Selection
    Unit 8: Ecology

    The Donovan/Harmon material is helpful in learning none of these units. With respect to the AP exam, it's a complete waste of students' time.

    I'd like to do a study of the effect that adoption of the Donovan/Harmon program has on AP Biology exam scores. Will the NSF fund my proposal?

    Future high school science curriculum:

    9th grade: Earth science, featuring global warming
    10th grade: Biology, featuring human biodiversity denialism
    11th grade: Chemistry, featuring childhood lead poisoning
    12th grade: Physics, featuring calculations performed by the “Hidden Figures” ladies

    • Agree: houston 1992
    • Replies: @El Dato
    The hard part will be surviving the daily busing as shots ring out and gun violence erupts during commute as you can admire the non-racist Amy Harmonically gated and well-guarded "communities" through the windows of your electrically powered skoolbus.
    , @CCZ
    For that physics class, don't forget to include everyone's favorite black lady “physicist” Chanda Prescod-Weinstein (Department of Physics and Astronomy and Department of Women’s and Gender Studies).

    Making Black Women Scientists under White Empiricism: The Racialization of Epistemology in Physics

    "I take on the question of how the exclusion of Black American women from physics impacts physics epistemologies.... I describe the phenomenon where white epistemic claims about science—which are not rooted in empirical evidence—receive more credence and attention than Black women’s epistemic claims about their own lives."

    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/704991
  78. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!)

    You Boomers just won’t let go. This the race realist CivNat version of “But my best friend is black so I can’t be a racist.”

    You’re as bad as the lying teacher. Actually, you’re worse. You’re smart enough to be a far more nuanced liar. You guide the student halfway and then trick him.

    Regression to the mean means that YES you can judge an individual on his race – if your interaction with that individual will extend to his family or over multiple generations.

    You know this, yet you feign stupidity to avoid thinking of yourself as racist, like that meany Citizen.

    Dave is more than happy to welcome that nice black couple into his neighborhood. After all, they’re nice and reasonably bright. The husband was in the army and the wife works at the school. What kind of evil racist would not want them in their neighborhood? Not Dave. He judges individuals on their own merits, not the color their skin, like that meany racist Citizen.

    Hmm. But then nice black couple has kids, and while not as low-IQ or violent as your typical blacks, they aren’t quite as nice as nice or as smart as the parents. Then the niece moves in due to some family problems in the hood. She’s not bad but her boyfriend who comes to visit is definitely sketchy looking.

    Then another black family moves in because they heard about the first black family and the welcome that they got from Dave. They’re also pretty nice, though not quite as nice as the first family. And their kids seem to get into trouble quite a bit. But, don’t worry, Dave will judge them as individuals.

    Twenty years later the neighborhood is a disaster and whites running as fast as they can. But don’t worry, nobody would ever call Dave a racist and that’s what’s important.

    Yes, Tom Sowell is smarter than the average white. So what. Sowell’s children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will move to the black mean (unless they either marry whites – destroying my people – or only interbred among other smart blacks, in which case they will just as racist as I am.)

    Let’s all say it together: Regression to the mean means that in general, YES, you should judge an individual on their race if your interactions with them will extend to their family or be over multiple generations.

  79. @Anon
    Harmon links to a study by Rosenberg, et al., that she describes as "invoking statistical models to argue that health disparities between black and white Americans are more readily explained by environmental effects such as racism than the DNA they inherited from ancestors."

    I thinks she misrepresents the paper. It's not an attempt to explain health disparities. It's a high-level theoretical and conceptual theory to discredit GWAS research in general (a popular progressive tactic these days, ever since epigenetics kind of fizzled out), with a coda that is three paragraphs long at the end applying it to the specific example of health disparities.

    I have a rule that if an advocate for a view gives you an example to support their case, and you can demolish the example, you have destroyed their view, since they are responsible for choosing the best evidence of all for their view, not you.

    The Rosenberg paper is very airy, fluffy, ethereal, theoretical stuff. But the three paragraph health disparities is the only place they get down to brass tacks, and it involves assumptions to make the example tractable that destroy any possibility that their case is convincing. In fact, the second paragraph admits the weakness of the argument in the first paragraph and tries to fix it. How did that not get edited out in peer review?

    “ever since epigenetics kind of fizzled out”

    Was it disproved, or just shown not to be that important? I found the Epigenetics Revolution fascinating.

  80. Classic Sailer “staccato grievance commentary”™. Fitting, I found this spiritual deep in my archives. Enjoy.

    Come all of you pro-whites
    Good news to you I’ll yell
    Of how human biodiversity
    Was borne from William Tell

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side

    I cannot tell a lie
    ‘Bout non-white IQ and violence rates
    I’ll just stick to makin’ up facts
    And leave the rest to fate

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side

    They say the race war is coming
    They’ll be no neutrals here
    You’ll either for genocide
    Or stringin’ up anti-whites in fear

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side

    Please note that in that same 2018 survey of 721 students from affluent, majority-white high schools, four in five had agreed with this statement–“Members of one racial group are more likely to invade the world and invite the world than members of another racial group because of genetics”.

    Damn Cultural Marxism!

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Understanding that adaptation of songs and poems is usually far from perfect, this:

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side
     
    is about as awkward as you can get.
  81. The entire process took about 1-3 months; in reality, I felt that simply being lectured about the topics in 1-2 days would have been plenty sufficient.

    This is the difference between education and RE-education. You can educate someone as to your point of view in a day or two, but if you want to reeducate them (also known as brainwashing) it takes a much longer time to break down their defenses. The people presenting this program were not interested in educating their students, they wanted to convert them to their new faith based Religion of Egalitarianism. It’s like the difference between teaching someone about the Book of Mormon and converting them to the Church of LDS.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "You can educate someone as to your point of view in a day or two, but if you want to reeducate them (also known as brainwashing) it takes a much longer time to break down their defenses."

    Isn't that what HbD, aka "race realism", is all about? A true believer of this philosophy will not be convinced of ideas to the contrary. Their beliefs are allegedly based on sound scientific principles, but in reality they are rooted on blind faith, specious reasoning, and a weak-willed NEED to believe. It enables self-deceivers an excuse not to think critically of the counter evidence because everything that does fit into their world view is "Fake News".

    Some would argue that is easier to dupe high IQ types since they focus more on the nitty gritty details. Perhaps today's propaganda and brainwashing is designed for the "thinking classes", rather than the "unwashed masses". Pray tell, Jack D, what group do you belong?

    Furthermore, I would submit that those true believers who are 100% certain of their commit a fatal error in epistemological judgment. Why? Their unvarnished emotional investment in their position. Thus, when these true believers are maintain their false premise despite being confronted with facts that refute them, they rely on confirmation bias as the means to remain safely entrenched in their intellectual redoubt.
    , @Corvinus
    LOL, calling me a troll only solidifies my point. Remember, YOU were the one who brought up brainwashing and reeducation. I merely offered insight based upon your original statement.

    Again, I ask, are you a member of the "thinking classes" or a member of the "unwashed masses"?

    And, another thing, are you interested in converting the youth of America to your faith based Religion of Human Biodiversity?

    Two important questions worth answering with substance...
  82. @Anonyone

    But that has not stopped many Americans from believing that genes cause racial groups to have distinct skills, traits and abilities...In a 2018 survey of 721 students from affluent, majority-white high schools, Dr. Donovan found that one in five agreed with statements like “Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”
     
    And yet, without missing a beat, virtually everyone, including most biology teachers, would choose or avoid particular breeds of dogs based on the alleged attributes, physical and behavioral, of those dog breeds, knowing full well the assumptions about the attributes of each breed are largely true.

    “And yet, without missing a beat, virtually everyone, including most biology teachers, would choose or avoid particular breeds of dogs** based on the alleged attributes, physical and behavioral, of those dog breeds, knowing full well the assumptions about the attributes of each breed are largely true.”

    **See below

    A poster from long ago–name I forgot–on this fine blog once said “In some sense isn’t everything a social construct? I mean the universe is just brute matter and everything else is a construct of the human mind, in particular the process of abstraction and categorization.”

    To which I responded…

    Exactly! Race is linked to biology; ethnicity is linked to culture. Race is a biological and social construct. Ethnicity is a social construct. Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices. In a nutshell, race refers to a group of people who possess similar and distinct physical characteristics, while ethnicity refers to a category of people who regard themselves to be different from other groups based on common ancestral, cultural, national, and social experience.

    Furthermore, natural science consists of mental constructs, created with the objective of explaining sensory experience of our world. Human beings affix labels to make sense of our environment. For example, the California spotted owl is an animal, i.e. biological construct. The scientific name of the creature is a human designation—strix occidentalis. That is, binomial nomenclature refers to a formal system, developed by people, to name species. The California owl was not a “California owl” until someone actually and specifically labeled it.

    Men and women had sought, and continue to seek, to explain sensory experience of our world. Thus, we affix labels to make sense of our environment. Race, biology, ethnicity–all are concepts created by human beings as an organizational tool to offer a consistency about the natural world in which they observe. “Canis” refers to a real thing, but human beings designated that term—canis, which means “dog” in Latin, and also refers to their prominent teeth used for killing their prey. Dogs (like cats) did not magically appear as those animals automatically to human beings. People described the characteristics in a manner that made sense to them by developing criteria to differentiate the species in their natural habitats.

    **Breeds are manufactured through selective breeding (artificial selection). A Boston terrier is an explicitly defined animal: the AKC ultimately decides which dog meets the criteria. I am probably stating the obvious here, but geographic isolation, and natural or sexual selection, have resulted in some alleles in human beings being more frequent in some groups compared to human beings, and ancestry determines the distribution of some genes. As far as I know, the major genetic clusters consisted of Europeans/West Asians (whites), sub-Saharan Africans, East Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Native Americans with a discrepancy rate of only 0.14%. It also seems to me that this debate over race as a biological construct–I happen to believe that race is both a biological and social construct–originated in the desire to establish the genetic inferiority of some races compared to others.**

  83. @International Jew
    Future high school science curriculum:

    9th grade: Earth science, featuring global warming
    10th grade: Biology, featuring human biodiversity denialism
    11th grade: Chemistry, featuring childhood lead poisoning
    12th grade: Physics, featuring calculations performed by the "Hidden Figures" ladies

    The hard part will be surviving the daily busing as shots ring out and gun violence erupts during commute as you can admire the non-racist Amy Harmonically gated and well-guarded “communities” through the windows of your electrically powered skoolbus.

  84. @Anonyone

    But that has not stopped many Americans from believing that genes cause racial groups to have distinct skills, traits and abilities...In a 2018 survey of 721 students from affluent, majority-white high schools, Dr. Donovan found that one in five agreed with statements like “Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”
     
    And yet, without missing a beat, virtually everyone, including most biology teachers, would choose or avoid particular breeds of dogs based on the alleged attributes, physical and behavioral, of those dog breeds, knowing full well the assumptions about the attributes of each breed are largely true.

    Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”

    I’m not sure that’s really a true statement, even from an HBD perspective. Rather it is some kind of straw man position meant to make HBD look bad. A lot of ghetto youth say that they want to be doctors or lawyers even though they can barely read or do basic math – their ambitions are high but not at all realistic (of course rapper and NBA star are also common ambitions – every youf who is arrested is an “aspiring rapper”).

    IQ is certainly linked to genetics but is there an “ambition” gene? What differs not so much are ambitions but g linked traits like the ability to delay gratification and execute long term plans (and the ability to learn abstract material) so that you can actually carry out your ambitions.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Funnily enough, the failed rapper cliche is also common among wannabe jihadis in places like Kreuzberg or Marxloh.

    I don't think there's an ambition gene: I think that's purely American culture at work. Maybe there is a bit of genetics in the self-selection of those who chose to emigrate to the USA for most of our history: heavily favoring the ambitious, restless, and those willing to take chances. But this would not apply to blacks because slaves-who weren't coming voluntarily-weren't selected in Africa because of their ambition, or any other personality characteristic.

    On the more moderate, sane level of yester-era, this was part of what made the USA special in a good way (and it is also part of why we could assimilate so many people), but as other times and place in history show, cultural traits that are normally very good to have can be alternately misused by malicious governments, or driven to such unhealthy extremes that they become bad things. Between what I suspect is a combination of the information revolution showing everybody everybody else's lives and an increasingly individualized cultural ethos, this has been taken to an extremely unhealthy, counterproductive level. People now consider any sort of average-let alone below-average-outcome to mean their life is pointless, hence any effort is pointless. Since this is a cultural issue, policy measures are probably not going to solve this: although it definitely does not help that traditional stepping stones to upward mobility on the bottom of the social ladder aren't as easy to attain or as reliable as they used to be.

    I can't help but wonder if this is part of why mass shootings exist: some kind of perverted desire for momentary glory and "achievement" in a life that promises little of either and a culture that will value nothing else. It's an evil decision. It's also probably a more cold, calculating one than we give credit for.

    Tied into this: observing and talking to actual Africans from Africa has impressed upon me how Americanized US blacks are. This really shouldn't be surprising given how long they've been here and how total the disruption with any connection from Africa was, but for some reason, it does take people by surprise in a way it doesn't talking about the differences between white Americans and Europeans if you point it out.

    , @MEH 0910
    https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/all-human-behavioral-traits-are-heritable/
  85. I always found it interesting that blacks, despite being clearly athletically superior in many ways, have never been able to field a decent national soccer team. Those teams are typically filled with individual talent but just don’t function well as teams. Maybe that’s a statement on their societies as well.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Much longer game time with limited substitutions, fast guys will tire more easily. Football (soccer) pitch much bigger than a basketball court, 90 minutes of game time vs. 48 minutes ( 40 minutes in college and high school ).
  86. @Jack D

    The entire process took about 1-3 months; in reality, I felt that simply being lectured about the topics in 1-2 days would have been plenty sufficient.

     

    This is the difference between education and RE-education. You can educate someone as to your point of view in a day or two, but if you want to reeducate them (also known as brainwashing) it takes a much longer time to break down their defenses. The people presenting this program were not interested in educating their students, they wanted to convert them to their new faith based Religion of Egalitarianism. It's like the difference between teaching someone about the Book of Mormon and converting them to the Church of LDS.

    “You can educate someone as to your point of view in a day or two, but if you want to reeducate them (also known as brainwashing) it takes a much longer time to break down their defenses.”

    Isn’t that what HbD, aka “race realism”, is all about? A true believer of this philosophy will not be convinced of ideas to the contrary. Their beliefs are allegedly based on sound scientific principles, but in reality they are rooted on blind faith, specious reasoning, and a weak-willed NEED to believe. It enables self-deceivers an excuse not to think critically of the counter evidence because everything that does fit into their world view is “Fake News”.

    Some would argue that is easier to dupe high IQ types since they focus more on the nitty gritty details. Perhaps today’s propaganda and brainwashing is designed for the “thinking classes”, rather than the “unwashed masses”. Pray tell, Jack D, what group do you belong?

    Furthermore, I would submit that those true believers who are 100% certain of their commit a fatal error in epistemological judgment. Why? Their unvarnished emotional investment in their position. Thus, when these true believers are maintain their false premise despite being confronted with facts that refute them, they rely on confirmation bias as the means to remain safely entrenched in their intellectual redoubt.

    • LOL: ic1000
    • Troll: Jack D
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    >Some would argue that is easier to dupe high IQ types since they focus more on the nitty gritty details. Perhaps today’s propaganda and brainwashing is designed for the “thinking classes”, rather than the “unwashed masses”

    Not really: the issue is that high IQ types can abstractly rationalize things to themselves and dismiss empirical, in-your-face observations in a way that people with lower IQs can't. To use an analogy, if you've got an IQ of 90 and the horse is staring you in the face, you can ignore the horse if the incentives are strong enough, but you can't offer a sophisticated explanation as to why the horse isn't really there.

    Sometimes, this is a good thing: human intuition can be vastly wrong, which is why science exists. But it also means that there are ways you can delude yourself that are only available to you if you have the mental horsepower for it. It's no coincidence that the nastiest political movements in modern history have typically been driven by failed demi-intelligentsia types.

    , @PhysicistDave
    Corvinus wrote:

    Isn’t that what HbD, aka “race realism”, is all about? A true believer of this philosophy will not be convinced of ideas to the contrary. Their beliefs are allegedly based on sound scientific principles, but in reality they are rooted on blind faith, specious reasoning, and a weak-willed NEED to believe.
     
    Depends on what you mean by HBD, I suppose. The idea that there are huge differences among races on all sorts of traits and that these usually swamp individual differences within a race is an empirical claim that is, I suspect, false.

    On the other hand, the expectation that for any trait that differs within a population you will likely also get a difference in the average between two ethnic groups is rather elementary population genetics. Not faith any more than belief in the heliocentric theory is faith.

    To put it concretely, do you think the BSCS folks described in the article are doing something wrong?

    Of course, both the heliocentric theory and elementary population genetics could, in principle, be empirically proven to be false. But it is not very likely.

    By the way, have you noticed that there is a rather fierce debate in this comment section between those who want to judge human beings by their race and those of us who want to judge them as individuals? I think that you, nebulafox, and I are actually on the same side of that debate: perhaps you are making a mistake in viewing nebulafox as your enemy?
  87. who both understand that the differences between the DNA in any two people make up about one-tenth of 1 percent of their genome.

    This is such a meaningless statistic. The differences between a human and a chimpanzee make up around 1% of their genome. Even a human and a dog or a cat share a high % of their genomes with humans (and with each other). Most of your genome is made up of genes that encode for proteins that are vital to all mammals or vertebrates and in some cases to all living things so they can’t be very different or you wouldn’t survive. The human genome has 3 billion base pairs so a .1% difference means that you could have 3,000,000 different sequences than the person standing next to you. 3,000,000 is a lot. Sometime just a change in a single sequence of a single gene is the difference between life and death, between a normal individual and one that will be stillborn or will die after a few months.

    It’s possible to propagandize this in a completely opposite way:

    “who both understand that any two people may differ in their DNA in about 3 million different places. ”

    “who both understand that any two people may differ in their DNA about 1/10th as much as they differ from a chimpanzee. “

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    This is such a meaningless statistic. The differences between a human and a chimpanzee make up around 1% of their genome....The human genome has 3 billion base pairs so a .1% difference means that you could have 3,000,000 different sequences than the person standing next to you. 3,000,000 is a lot.
     

    “who both understand that any two people may differ in their DNA in about 3 million different places. ”
     
    Excellent summary Jack. I will be re-using this in other places (though without attribution).

    Agree: Johann Ricke

  88. @Lot
    Interesting forum. If Steve hasn’t seen it before, we might lose him for a few days.

    The baseball page has an article as follows:

    “Three decades after [US born] blacks made up nearly 30 percent of major league rosters, they now make up about 8 percent-less than half the 17.25 percent of 1959, the first year every team was integrated.”

    what’s their methodology for determining blackness? Pretty much all dominican players are at least part black although they often do not identify as black.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Color of their skin.
    , @bigdicknick
    I just looked at a random MLB roster...if you count players who are clearly part black the roster was 10/40 or 25% black. I doubt this team is significantly blacker than the rest of the league. I find the 8% number HIGHLY dubious.

    Edit: Just saw they specificed US born blacks. So it's probably accurate.
  89. @ic1000
    Amy Harmon is a shoe-in for Secretary of Agriculture in the incoming Warren/Sanders/Buttigieg Administration. Under her guidance, grain harvests by American farmers will undergo revolutionary leaps.

    Harmon observed that pea seeds germinated faster when maintained at low temperatures. Instead of erroneously concluding that the plant's ability to respond flexibly to temperature variations was a natural characteristic, Harmon concluded that the low temperature forced its seeds to alter their species.
     

    Amy Harmon won’t allow any Mendelist Morganist wreckers to sabotage any possible Great Leap Forward in education.

  90. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Actually, it is not true that Robin’s view is false. The truth or falsity of the first part of her view depends on the definition of “small”. The second part of her view is clearly true.

  91. @Anon
    Minority baseball players tend to come from places like the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico these days. They play better ball than the blacks do, so they get recruited in place of blacks.

    They play better ball than the blacks do, so they get recruited in place of blacks.

    They ARE blacks. The only difference is their ancestors were sold to a different group of whites than were American blacks. For a number of reasons they like baseball at a young age more than do American blacks. For some reason this is a crisis, but only to dorky cuck white and jewish sportswriters. To normal people, American blacks choosing basketball over baseball is their business and no reason to get excited.

    This guy is a black dude:

    • Agree: Herbert West
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes, yes they are. And of course not, " minorities " but rather massive global majorities, like
    Asiatics.
  92. > In Dr. Donovan’s curriculum, students are taught that thousands of variations in DNA influence a more common trait like height or IQ.

    Oooh! Oooh! I found a completely true sentence in Ms. Harmon’s article!

    Is there another?

    [Edit: Harmon presumably means “thousands of genes for which different alleles exert meaningful influence upon a more common trait like height or IQ.” For both height and IQ, the final gene tally might turn out to be hundreds instead of thousands. Does that mean I have to keep looking?]

  93. @AaronNYC
    I always found it interesting that blacks, despite being clearly athletically superior in many ways, have never been able to field a decent national soccer team. Those teams are typically filled with individual talent but just don’t function well as teams. Maybe that’s a statement on their societies as well.

    Much longer game time with limited substitutions, fast guys will tire more easily. Football (soccer) pitch much bigger than a basketball court, 90 minutes of game time vs. 48 minutes ( 40 minutes in college and high school ).

  94. @Jack D

    The entire process took about 1-3 months; in reality, I felt that simply being lectured about the topics in 1-2 days would have been plenty sufficient.

     

    This is the difference between education and RE-education. You can educate someone as to your point of view in a day or two, but if you want to reeducate them (also known as brainwashing) it takes a much longer time to break down their defenses. The people presenting this program were not interested in educating their students, they wanted to convert them to their new faith based Religion of Egalitarianism. It's like the difference between teaching someone about the Book of Mormon and converting them to the Church of LDS.

    LOL, calling me a troll only solidifies my point. Remember, YOU were the one who brought up brainwashing and reeducation. I merely offered insight based upon your original statement.

    Again, I ask, are you a member of the “thinking classes” or a member of the “unwashed masses”?

    And, another thing, are you interested in converting the youth of America to your faith based Religion of Human Biodiversity?

    Two important questions worth answering with substance…

  95. @Jack D

    Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”
     
    I'm not sure that's really a true statement, even from an HBD perspective. Rather it is some kind of straw man position meant to make HBD look bad. A lot of ghetto youth say that they want to be doctors or lawyers even though they can barely read or do basic math - their ambitions are high but not at all realistic (of course rapper and NBA star are also common ambitions - every youf who is arrested is an "aspiring rapper").

    IQ is certainly linked to genetics but is there an "ambition" gene? What differs not so much are ambitions but g linked traits like the ability to delay gratification and execute long term plans (and the ability to learn abstract material) so that you can actually carry out your ambitions.

    Funnily enough, the failed rapper cliche is also common among wannabe jihadis in places like Kreuzberg or Marxloh.

    I don’t think there’s an ambition gene: I think that’s purely American culture at work. Maybe there is a bit of genetics in the self-selection of those who chose to emigrate to the USA for most of our history: heavily favoring the ambitious, restless, and those willing to take chances. But this would not apply to blacks because slaves-who weren’t coming voluntarily-weren’t selected in Africa because of their ambition, or any other personality characteristic.

    On the more moderate, sane level of yester-era, this was part of what made the USA special in a good way (and it is also part of why we could assimilate so many people), but as other times and place in history show, cultural traits that are normally very good to have can be alternately misused by malicious governments, or driven to such unhealthy extremes that they become bad things. Between what I suspect is a combination of the information revolution showing everybody everybody else’s lives and an increasingly individualized cultural ethos, this has been taken to an extremely unhealthy, counterproductive level. People now consider any sort of average-let alone below-average-outcome to mean their life is pointless, hence any effort is pointless. Since this is a cultural issue, policy measures are probably not going to solve this: although it definitely does not help that traditional stepping stones to upward mobility on the bottom of the social ladder aren’t as easy to attain or as reliable as they used to be.

    I can’t help but wonder if this is part of why mass shootings exist: some kind of perverted desire for momentary glory and “achievement” in a life that promises little of either and a culture that will value nothing else. It’s an evil decision. It’s also probably a more cold, calculating one than we give credit for.

    Tied into this: observing and talking to actual Africans from Africa has impressed upon me how Americanized US blacks are. This really shouldn’t be surprising given how long they’ve been here and how total the disruption with any connection from Africa was, but for some reason, it does take people by surprise in a way it doesn’t talking about the differences between white Americans and Europeans if you point it out.

  96. @Calvin Hobbes
    NYT Business‏ @nytimesbusiness (on Twitter)
    If your boss is asking for your honest feelings about diversity issues, you should feel absolutely free to provide the critique they desperately need to hear

    James Damore's Twitter reaction: lol

    https://twitter.com/JamesADamore/status/1202617267722297344

    Biology teachers who are told to teach about the biology of race should take heed.

    In China during the Mao period, there was a period called “Let 1,000 Flowers Bloom” during which free criticism of the Party and Mao was encouraged – tell us how you really feel, are we doing a good job? Mao then took note of everyone who had spoken critically and had them purged.

  97. @International Jew
    Future high school science curriculum:

    9th grade: Earth science, featuring global warming
    10th grade: Biology, featuring human biodiversity denialism
    11th grade: Chemistry, featuring childhood lead poisoning
    12th grade: Physics, featuring calculations performed by the "Hidden Figures" ladies

    For that physics class, don’t forget to include everyone’s favorite black lady “physicist” Chanda Prescod-Weinstein (Department of Physics and Astronomy and Department of Women’s and Gender Studies).

    Making Black Women Scientists under White Empiricism: The Racialization of Epistemology in Physics

    “I take on the question of how the exclusion of Black American women from physics impacts physics epistemologies…. I describe the phenomenon where white epistemic claims about science—which are not rooted in empirical evidence—receive more credence and attention than Black women’s epistemic claims about their own lives.”

    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/704991

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
  98. @Corvinus
    "You can educate someone as to your point of view in a day or two, but if you want to reeducate them (also known as brainwashing) it takes a much longer time to break down their defenses."

    Isn't that what HbD, aka "race realism", is all about? A true believer of this philosophy will not be convinced of ideas to the contrary. Their beliefs are allegedly based on sound scientific principles, but in reality they are rooted on blind faith, specious reasoning, and a weak-willed NEED to believe. It enables self-deceivers an excuse not to think critically of the counter evidence because everything that does fit into their world view is "Fake News".

    Some would argue that is easier to dupe high IQ types since they focus more on the nitty gritty details. Perhaps today's propaganda and brainwashing is designed for the "thinking classes", rather than the "unwashed masses". Pray tell, Jack D, what group do you belong?

    Furthermore, I would submit that those true believers who are 100% certain of their commit a fatal error in epistemological judgment. Why? Their unvarnished emotional investment in their position. Thus, when these true believers are maintain their false premise despite being confronted with facts that refute them, they rely on confirmation bias as the means to remain safely entrenched in their intellectual redoubt.

    >Some would argue that is easier to dupe high IQ types since they focus more on the nitty gritty details. Perhaps today’s propaganda and brainwashing is designed for the “thinking classes”, rather than the “unwashed masses”

    Not really: the issue is that high IQ types can abstractly rationalize things to themselves and dismiss empirical, in-your-face observations in a way that people with lower IQs can’t. To use an analogy, if you’ve got an IQ of 90 and the horse is staring you in the face, you can ignore the horse if the incentives are strong enough, but you can’t offer a sophisticated explanation as to why the horse isn’t really there.

    Sometimes, this is a good thing: human intuition can be vastly wrong, which is why science exists. But it also means that there are ways you can delude yourself that are only available to you if you have the mental horsepower for it. It’s no coincidence that the nastiest political movements in modern history have typically been driven by failed demi-intelligentsia types.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Not really: the issue is that high IQ types can abstractly rationalize things to themselves and dismiss empirical, in-your-face observations in a way that people with lower IQs can’t."

    And along the way, those high IQ types may purposely seek ideas that conform to their preexisting notions while trying to explain away counter evidence.

    "To use an analogy, if you’ve got an IQ of 90 and the horse is staring you in the face, you can ignore the horse if the incentives are strong enough, but you can’t offer a sophisticated explanation as to why the horse isn’t really there."

    What a tortured analogy. An IQ man of 90 would be able to explain that the horse is there and that the horse may pose a danger. There need not be "sophistication" involved.

    "It’s no coincidence that the nastiest political movements in modern history have typically been driven by failed demi-intelligentsia types."

    Such as?

    "Funnily enough, the failed rapper cliche is also common among wannabe jihadis in places like Kreuzberg or Marxloh."

    Or among white kids who aspire to be the next PewDiePie.
  99. @The Wild Geese Howard
    There's only one Universal Soldier, my friend:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrZStlOJxw

    Thanks for two-minute argument for the Hays Code.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    LOL, any time my friend!
  100. @Stogumber
    A reasonable curriculum would concentrate on the fact that you cannot, from statistical differences, take a conclusion about the differences between two given individuals.
    But the curriculum would at the same time make clear that in our times a lot of publical reasoning is not about individuals, but about collectives - in which case statististical differences are in fact an inevitable part of the reasoning.
    These central problems are not even problems of biology - they would emerge as well if we concentrated on culture.
    They are connected with the strange and perplexing idea that the one and only relevant kind of inequity is statistical inequity between collectives (meaning, there is nothing wrong with 20 percent of Blacks being poor as long as the same number of Whites is poor, too). But this is obviously a matter for the philosophy class, not the biology class.

    Spot on.

  101. @William Badwhite

    They play better ball than the blacks do, so they get recruited in place of blacks.
     
    They ARE blacks. The only difference is their ancestors were sold to a different group of whites than were American blacks. For a number of reasons they like baseball at a young age more than do American blacks. For some reason this is a crisis, but only to dorky cuck white and jewish sportswriters. To normal people, American blacks choosing basketball over baseball is their business and no reason to get excited.

    This guy is a black dude:

    https://foxsports-wordpress-www-prsupports-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/2/2017/10/David-Ortiz_727x727-480x480.jpg

    Yes, yes they are. And of course not, ” minorities ” but rather massive global majorities, like
    Asiatics.

  102. @bigdicknick
    what's their methodology for determining blackness? Pretty much all dominican players are at least part black although they often do not identify as black.

    Color of their skin.

  103. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    They didn’t/don’t want mundame honesty. This lying is all in service of the great minoritarian project.

    Honestly this is all square peg, round hole stuff:

    — Trivial math shows that two populations will not be exactly the same on any trait in which there is individual variance. (I.e. five fingers–sure. Height–no.)

    — And if you believe in natural selection then populations that are separate environments … must … vary genetically.

    — And for humans our brains–intelligence/personality traits–is our number one survival advantage. Selection ought to be most powerful on that. The only other thing in the ballpark would disease resistance.

    — So what you’re left with is … “not enough time”. Which is both mathematically false and obviously false because there are clear differences in very visible physical traits.

    Bottom line: The extent of these racial/ethnic differences–how selection has actually worked–is an open empirical question. But the “no such thing as race” or “no differences that are not politically correct” is an open anti-scientific lie.

    This whole incoherent, illogical nonsense is just there to serve the minoritarian–anti-national, anti-white-gentile–project. No one would even try to sell this bucket of shit if they weren’t committed to or steeped in minoritarian ideology.

  104. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth — there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) — the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    This gets at the way that the truth about HBD including the genetic basis of race has been leaking out.  “Race is a social construct” no longer passes the laugh test.  The Overton window is moving toward the truth, and the equalists are now being forced to make admissions against interest—which they obfuscate, but they have to make them nonetheless.

    One of the things they had to bury (because denying it outright is too damning) is that we’ve had firm data on the nature/nurture contributions for over 40 years now.  The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study found that IQ tracks the proportion of African vs. Caucasian genes.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Honesty in academia has been dead since the rise of Boasian anthropology and Marxism.  Any and all Narrative-compliant instruction is malpractice.  It is indoctrination, not education.

    When this indoctrination breaks down, the backlash is going to be epic.

  105. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth — there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) — the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    This gets at the way that the truth about HBD including the genetic basis of race has been leaking out.  “Race is a social construct” no longer passes the laugh test.  The Overton window is moving toward the truth, and the equalists are now being forced to make admissions against interest—which they obfuscate, but they have to make them nonetheless.

    One of the things they had to bury (because denying it outright is too damning) is that we’ve had firm data on the nature/nurture contributions for over 40 years now.  The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study found that IQ tracks the proportion of African vs. Caucasian genes.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Honesty in academia has been dead since the rise of Boasian anthropology and Marxism.  Any and all Narrative-compliant instruction is malpractice.  It is indoctrination, not education.

    When this indoctrination breaks down, the backlash is going to be epic.

  106. Here’s someone’s list of the top 249 2020 cornerback recruits.

    https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&Position=CB

    On this list there appears to be a grand total of two Hawai’ian native / samoan guys, one asian guy from Hawai’i and one white guy. He also played RB and was recruited by the UMass safeties coach, so his future may not be at corner.

  107. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    Agree.

  108. @Joe Schmoe

    “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

    “Those darn kids! Reading hate on the Internet! We have to do something! Now!”

     

    Of course, most folks make the usual sense of race by just looking at real life around them and making the usual rational choices.

    As for those reading the internet for scientific points of view, they will get a mix of BS commentary and anti-woke rational data which will wake them up.

    So, yeah, the bright ones gonna know what's up. And that is unacceptable!

    the bright ones gonna know what’s up. And that is unacceptable!

    The only way to avoid it is to shut down all alternate sources of information.  If (((they))) could get rid of all Darwinian geneticists because Lysenkoism was doctrine, they will certainly try to do it again.  Given the way they’re keeping names like Ciaramella off all big social media, they’re probably thinking they’re succeeding.

  109. ‘These ideas are dangerous, and ‘How do we have a safe conversation about unsafe ideas?’”

    Need we add anything, really?

  110. Anon[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    Article re: my Budapest high school reference:

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/xPJKZyPCvap4Fven8/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science

    This brings up the idea of cloning some of these guys and giving them to high IQ couples who are infertile and want to adopt.

    Top 1% IQ of the USA is 3.3 million people. Let’s say 3% are infertile and 10% of that 3% are married and of an appropriate age to raise children and want to do so. That’s about 10,000 potential parents for clones of history-making scientists.

    I think it’s worth a shot. I’d sign up if I were in that situation.

    I believe this is more realistic than genetic engineering of genius babies.

    Worst possible example. Hungarian scientists became a handful after breaking up with Wien. They went to way of the dodo once the Jews left and the Soviets arrived. Precisely zero significant Hungarian scientists were educated or worked in Hungary, since the sixties.

    Hungarians are the best example of the power of environment over genes.

  111. @Anonymous
    OT:


    The Moral Hazard of High Child Support for High Earners

    Owen Wilson Pays $25K A Month In Child Support For Daughter He's Never Met

    By Arielle London

    Maybe in the future he'll come around.

    Owen Wilson is paying $25,000 a month in child support for his daughter whom he has never even met. The Wedding Crashers actor had a casual five-year relationship with Varunie Vongsvirates who became pregnant with his child, Lyla. At first, Wilson demanded a DNA test to prove his paternity and when the test did just that he stepped up financially, but not emotionally.

    The arrangement between the exes was for an initial payout of $70,000 to cover the night nurse, Vongsvirates' labor coach, and her legal fees as well. Then there is the monthly agreement that Wilson will pay $25,000 for his daughter's expenses. That being said, he has not asked for any visitation rights and Varunie has been given sole custody of Lyla.


    While Wilson has not expressed interest in getting to know his first and only daughter, he has two young sons with two separate exes too. He has Robert Ford, who is eight years old and also Finn who is currently five. He had Robert Ford with ex-girlfriend Jade Duell and he shares Finn with Caroline Lindqvist whom he has reportedly become romantically involved with recently.

    According to the Daily Mail, Owen has been a stand-up father to his other two sons, so one has to wonder why he does not want anything to do with his baby girl?
     
    ttps://www.hotnewhiphop.com/owen-wilson-pays-s25k-a-month-in-child-support-for-daughter-hes-never-met-news.97675.html

    It’s the third child to women he wasn’t closely attached to, evidently.

    He’s 50 years old. When is he going to learn?

    Considering he’s supporting two other children and his career wasn’t what it was 10 years ago, I am impressed that the judge awarded over $250,000 a year in support. Maybe he’s made some good investments through the years. It doesn’t look like Hunter Biden’s child will have the same luck since he’s been out of work since last spring according to his court papers.

    It doesn’t seem fair that he’s not seeing her. That isn’t right.

    There’s more about this at the Daily Mail article you mentioned. It is interesting that the little girl turned out pale as can be with blonde hair and blue eyes. The mother is black haired with dark eyes and with the name “Varunie Vongsvirates” she certainly isn’t a WASP or anything near it.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7760313/Owen-Wilson-pays-25k-month-upkeep-baby-daughter-hes-never-met.html

  112. The article’s constant refrain of “We’re studying the claims so that we can show how obviously wrong they are” reminds me of Monty Python:

    “I’ve told him he’s welcome to teach any of the great socialist thinkers, provided he makes it clear that they were wrong”

  113. I am a lot more worried about other reasons the various groups in America don’t get along than what is attributed to DNA or race.

    As our population continues to rise due to high levels of immigration, there will be more and more competition for resources. This only brings out the worst in people. This is something we are completely unprepared for as we continue to hand out more than one million green cards a year and hundreds of thousands of new temporary work visas a year too.

    I wish these biology teachers would focus on changes to our environment that can be expected due to our projected population increases. That is certainly a lesson that our young people need to learn and understand so that they can take appropriate action — greatly decrease future immigration.

  114. anon[710] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    It's clear that these people are getting extremely uncomfortable with the public's growing interest in genetics. So much for "I ****** love science!"

    I suspect that they'll have a bigger problem on their hands soon. The rise of 23andMe and its competitors is likely to have some very interesting social implications. For the first time in the history of humanity, it is possible for anyone to easily and cheaply identify his genetic heritage. This really is something new under the sun. In the past these things lived in the realm of family lore, where the truth was mixed with silly legends and uncomfortable facts were suppressed. Not possible anymore.

    Beyond simply showing ancestry and family relations, these services provide raw data that can be run through tools like Promethease for more fine-grained analysis. And those tools will steadily improve as GWAS results pile up.

    These things are quite new and remain novelties...for the moment. But more and more people are walking around with genetic information that they never had before, and it is going to make them think.

    I suspect that they’ll have a bigger problem on their hands soon. The rise of 23andMe and its competitors is likely to have some very interesting social implications. For the first time in the history of humanity, it is possible for anyone to easily and cheaply identify his genetic heritage. This really is something new under the sun. In the past these things lived in the realm of family lore, where the truth was mixed with silly legends and uncomfortable facts were suppressed. Not possible anymore.

    If you read Carly Simon’s biography, the reader is struck with the notion that Carly and her mom acted like crazy black ladies. Lack of commitment to marriage, and bizarre relationships stemming from that.

    Example: Carly found a secret crawl hole in her parents mansion that her mother utilized to sneak her personal trainer into her bedroom at night. Carly herself is known to be pretty crazy. To this day, James Taylor refuses to speak to her.

    I think the major genetic trait of subsaharan blacks might be lack of conscientiousness. You can have a lower IQ, to a point, and still make your way in the world well enough if that is an functional, operative trait.

    Sans that trait, almost regardless of IQ, rest assured, your life is gonna be a shitshow.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Perhaps like Ava Gardner, Carly has just a smidgen of the tar brush. Like “aged”- read, just slightly rotten-steaks. That was Winstead’s secret by the way.

    Both Gardner and at least two of the Simon sisters were said to be spectacular fucks from what sources I consider reliable first hand knowledge have told me. Alas, they are now long since gone.
  115. @nebulafox
    >Some would argue that is easier to dupe high IQ types since they focus more on the nitty gritty details. Perhaps today’s propaganda and brainwashing is designed for the “thinking classes”, rather than the “unwashed masses”

    Not really: the issue is that high IQ types can abstractly rationalize things to themselves and dismiss empirical, in-your-face observations in a way that people with lower IQs can't. To use an analogy, if you've got an IQ of 90 and the horse is staring you in the face, you can ignore the horse if the incentives are strong enough, but you can't offer a sophisticated explanation as to why the horse isn't really there.

    Sometimes, this is a good thing: human intuition can be vastly wrong, which is why science exists. But it also means that there are ways you can delude yourself that are only available to you if you have the mental horsepower for it. It's no coincidence that the nastiest political movements in modern history have typically been driven by failed demi-intelligentsia types.

    “Not really: the issue is that high IQ types can abstractly rationalize things to themselves and dismiss empirical, in-your-face observations in a way that people with lower IQs can’t.”

    And along the way, those high IQ types may purposely seek ideas that conform to their preexisting notions while trying to explain away counter evidence.

    “To use an analogy, if you’ve got an IQ of 90 and the horse is staring you in the face, you can ignore the horse if the incentives are strong enough, but you can’t offer a sophisticated explanation as to why the horse isn’t really there.”

    What a tortured analogy. An IQ man of 90 would be able to explain that the horse is there and that the horse may pose a danger. There need not be “sophistication” involved.

    “It’s no coincidence that the nastiest political movements in modern history have typically been driven by failed demi-intelligentsia types.”

    Such as?

    “Funnily enough, the failed rapper cliche is also common among wannabe jihadis in places like Kreuzberg or Marxloh.”

    Or among white kids who aspire to be the next PewDiePie.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    >And along the way, those high IQ types may purposely seek ideas that conform to their preexisting notions while trying to explain away counter evidence.

    That's called: human beings being human beings. Happens a lot. The means to self-delude can be what differ.

    >What a tortured analogy.

    Deliberately crafted to be on the intellectual level of a tortured little man. I hope you enjoyed your Saturnalia present, straight from Santa's workshop to your heart.

    >Such as?

    The Khmer Rouge.

    >Or among white kids who aspire to be the next PewDiePie.

    1) A sizable minority of wannabe jihadi losers in Europe are white.

    2) PewDiePie does not pose a threat to the stability of one government, let alone several ranging across multiple continents, outside of your head.
    , @Anonymous
    Good thing you're here to darkly warn against the spectre haunting Europe, the spectre of Pewdiepie
  116. @Corvinus
    "Not really: the issue is that high IQ types can abstractly rationalize things to themselves and dismiss empirical, in-your-face observations in a way that people with lower IQs can’t."

    And along the way, those high IQ types may purposely seek ideas that conform to their preexisting notions while trying to explain away counter evidence.

    "To use an analogy, if you’ve got an IQ of 90 and the horse is staring you in the face, you can ignore the horse if the incentives are strong enough, but you can’t offer a sophisticated explanation as to why the horse isn’t really there."

    What a tortured analogy. An IQ man of 90 would be able to explain that the horse is there and that the horse may pose a danger. There need not be "sophistication" involved.

    "It’s no coincidence that the nastiest political movements in modern history have typically been driven by failed demi-intelligentsia types."

    Such as?

    "Funnily enough, the failed rapper cliche is also common among wannabe jihadis in places like Kreuzberg or Marxloh."

    Or among white kids who aspire to be the next PewDiePie.

    >And along the way, those high IQ types may purposely seek ideas that conform to their preexisting notions while trying to explain away counter evidence.

    That’s called: human beings being human beings. Happens a lot. The means to self-delude can be what differ.

    >What a tortured analogy.

    Deliberately crafted to be on the intellectual level of a tortured little man. I hope you enjoyed your Saturnalia present, straight from Santa’s workshop to your heart.

    >Such as?

    The Khmer Rouge.

    >Or among white kids who aspire to be the next PewDiePie.

    1) A sizable minority of wannabe jihadi losers in Europe are white.

    2) PewDiePie does not pose a threat to the stability of one government, let alone several ranging across multiple continents, outside of your head.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "That’s called: human beings being human beings. Happens a lot."

    Including you? How about Mr. Sailer?

    "Deliberately crafted to be on the intellectual level of a tortured little man."

    Don't be too hard on yourself.

    "1) A sizable minority of wannabe jihadi losers in Europe are white."

    How anti-white for you to say.

    "2) PewDiePie does not pose a threat to the stability of one government, let alone several ranging across multiple continents, outside of your head."

    He represents the scourge of Cultural Marxism, which rears its ugly head everywhere. Internet stars are ruining America's white youth. Why are being purposely obtuse here?

  117. @PhysicistDave
    From the article:

    Taylor thinks that there are genetic differences between people but that those differences are not associated with race.

    Robin thinks that the genetic differences within a racial group are small and that most genetic differences exist between people of different races.

    The truth is that neither has a completely accurate view.
     
    That is of course true.

    The real problem that they are going to have is that the ruling elite has gone to so much trouble to hide the truth, that when they tell kids the actual truth -- there are genetic differences between races but a huge overlap between races (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!) --- the kids will believe they are still lying and that the truth must be much worse than the teachers say.

    Simple mundane honesty from the beginning would have been easier.

    (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!)

    Sorry, but this sounds like the race realist CivNat version of “My best friend is black so I’m not a racist.”

    Maybe I’m wrong, but you seem to be implying that while there are group differences, we shouldn’t judge individuals by their race because there is so much overlap. What’s more, you also seem to be implying that those that do are, in fact, racist, a term which despite being overused by the Left is still a bad thing.

    I beg to differ. I believe that you should judge an individual by their race if 1) you will be dealing with anyone in this person’s family (especially extended family) or 2) you and your people will be dealing with this person and their prodigy beyond one generation.

    Regression to the mean.

    Regression to the mean says that this individual’s extended family will be closer the race’s mean. It also means that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be closer to the race’s mean unless they go to great lengths to avoid such an outcome which, by definition, is only available to a few so it doesn’t matter in general.

    My apologies if this isn’t your view, but I’m sick of race realist CivNats failing to connect the obvious dots.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    I'd just give you an "Agree", but the ridiculous 3/8hr limit won't let me.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Citizen of a Silly Country wrote to me:

    Maybe I’m wrong, but you seem to be implying that while there are group differences, we shouldn’t judge individuals by their race because there is so much overlap.
     
    Yes, that is what I am implying, when you can get enough information to judge individuals as individuals. I have in fact met Tom Sowell: aside from being very bright, he is also a real gentleman. I'd be happy to have him as a neighbor.

    CoaSC also wrote:

    Regression to the mean says that this individual’s extended family will be closer the race’s mean. It also means that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be closer to the race’s mean unless they go to great lengths to avoid such an outcome which, by definition, is only available to a few so it doesn’t matter in general.
     
    What if they marry someone of a different race or a very bright person of their race?

    CoaSC also wrote:

    My apologies if this isn’t your view, but I’m sick of race realist CivNats failing to connect the obvious dots.
     
    Hey, you've nailed me. Black people have been here a very long time -- longer than most white folks. They are going to stay here. We are going to have to live in the same country.

    I therefore intend to judge them as individuals to the degree I can. If you manage to convince most white folks not to do so... well, that will not end well.
  118. @Senator Brundlefly
    One of my biggest regrets in undergrad was not pointing out my professor's bullshit in an evolution class. In a previous lecture we went over the complications there are in defining species and how ultimately it was a conceptual term of utility to describe differences caused by evolutionary forces. We then in the next lecture went over how, sure, Sub-saharan Africans have higher rates of sickle cell because of natural selection and sure you can map out different populations with different gene frequencies but we are gonna define race as this certain genetic threshold so really the term race is reserved for these two identical looking populations of birds. Because racism!

    Ask Jerry Coyne!

    He was a profile in courage in his defense of James Watson!

  119. @anon
    “The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

    "Those darn kids! Reading hate on the Internet! We have to do something! Now!"

    The thing to remember is that kids are already making sense of race and biology, but with no guidance.” …

    Do not worry. Dr. Donovan, science educator, is there to provide that much needed scientifically based and fact-filled guidance!

  120. @anon
    This is the Establishment's response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?

    The more sophisticated lefties see the writing on the wall, so now they're performing focus group trials on smart HS kids to see what type of curriculum/indoctrination will allow them to step-down off the ledge from their soon-to-be falsifiable beliefs while still maintaining that the racists were clearly wrong.

    So sure, there are some shades of grey. It's all very messy, you see. But the racists were clearly further from the Truth.

    This is the Establishment’s response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?

    They are not going to back down from their belief that there is no such thing as race. Their belief in the fundamental equality of all people is central to their sense of self-worth. Absent this totemic illusion they would realize that they are nothing more than a rag tag bunch of deluded fools clinging to an egalitarian myth to validate their own worth as persons.

    Just as Christian Evangelicals are not going to back down from their belief in Adam and Eve and an Earth that is 6000 years old.

    The left is every bit as ignorant and intolerant as any bible belt fundamentalist.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Yes, but the Left controls every institution of note in this country and in the whole developed world as well, the bible belt fundamentalists really only have their small part of the country, plus small parts of a few other countries as well. This is why one of them is denigrated constantly by the other one, and the one doing the denigration never gets any pushback.

    You see their horseshit isn't, it's a paragon of reason, if you doubt it, just ask them. Creationists who are laughably small in number get enormous attention devoted to them, because controlling a school board in rural Kansas or Alabama is an existential threat to modern society, whereas what modern day "social scientists" believe is the Revealed Truth, and, and... they are "Scientists", Scientists I tell you! why it's in their very names!

  121. It reminds me of Anita Bryant vs. the gays.

    You’re both idiots.

  122. @Anonymous
    OT:


    The Moral Hazard of High Child Support for High Earners

    Owen Wilson Pays $25K A Month In Child Support For Daughter He's Never Met

    By Arielle London

    Maybe in the future he'll come around.

    Owen Wilson is paying $25,000 a month in child support for his daughter whom he has never even met. The Wedding Crashers actor had a casual five-year relationship with Varunie Vongsvirates who became pregnant with his child, Lyla. At first, Wilson demanded a DNA test to prove his paternity and when the test did just that he stepped up financially, but not emotionally.

    The arrangement between the exes was for an initial payout of $70,000 to cover the night nurse, Vongsvirates' labor coach, and her legal fees as well. Then there is the monthly agreement that Wilson will pay $25,000 for his daughter's expenses. That being said, he has not asked for any visitation rights and Varunie has been given sole custody of Lyla.


    While Wilson has not expressed interest in getting to know his first and only daughter, he has two young sons with two separate exes too. He has Robert Ford, who is eight years old and also Finn who is currently five. He had Robert Ford with ex-girlfriend Jade Duell and he shares Finn with Caroline Lindqvist whom he has reportedly become romantically involved with recently.

    According to the Daily Mail, Owen has been a stand-up father to his other two sons, so one has to wonder why he does not want anything to do with his baby girl?
     
    ttps://www.hotnewhiphop.com/owen-wilson-pays-s25k-a-month-in-child-support-for-daughter-hes-never-met-news.97675.html

    Not sure your point here?

    That getting impregnated by a celebrity is a really great “career” option for a modestly attractive but talentless young woman?

    The our legal system is abusive toward men? (Men that actually have an income, assets.)

    Owen’s got a dime or two more than i do and will probably muddle through, but i have to say that for 300K/year the guy should at least be getting exclusive “sleep over” priviliges plus any additional knock on babies, gratis.

  123. @Jane Plain
    You aimed low and missed.

    Your father aimed low as well, but too bad he hit the mark.

    • Replies: @Jane Plain
    I'd ask you to take this outside, but you'd have home-gutter advantage.
  124. But that has not stopped many Americans from believing that genes cause racial groups to have distinct skills, traits and abilities.

    Because they have eyes.

  125. @Cowboy Shaw
    No civilisation can survive being lectured to by people like this. Eventually someone just walks in and grabs the throne.

    No civilisation can survive being lectured to by people like this. Eventually someone just walks in and grabs the throne.

    Well said Cowboy.

    One of the delusions of these people is that they can “win” in some sort of extended way. They can certainly kill us–and we better wise up or they will. But this ugly dunghill they’ve conjured up, will not survive.

    It’s the old “nature abhors a vacuum” or more on point “natural selection”.

    If you let silly women boss you around … you’ll be replaced by men who boss around their women.

    If you don’t get your women pregnant … you’ll be replaced by men who get their women–and your women–pregnant.

    If you don’t protect your borders … you’ll be replaced by men who cross your border.

    If you believe silly destructive ideas … you’ll be replaced by men who believe rational ideas.

    Basic math. Nature doesn’t suffer fools gladly.

    • Agree: International Jew
  126. This problem will solve itself after the Hindutva crazies who’ve hijacked AP History curricula in the West Coast states move on to AP Bio– their enthusiasm for everybody-is-the-same pabulum homilies is perfunctory at best.

  127. @Corvinus
    "Not really: the issue is that high IQ types can abstractly rationalize things to themselves and dismiss empirical, in-your-face observations in a way that people with lower IQs can’t."

    And along the way, those high IQ types may purposely seek ideas that conform to their preexisting notions while trying to explain away counter evidence.

    "To use an analogy, if you’ve got an IQ of 90 and the horse is staring you in the face, you can ignore the horse if the incentives are strong enough, but you can’t offer a sophisticated explanation as to why the horse isn’t really there."

    What a tortured analogy. An IQ man of 90 would be able to explain that the horse is there and that the horse may pose a danger. There need not be "sophistication" involved.

    "It’s no coincidence that the nastiest political movements in modern history have typically been driven by failed demi-intelligentsia types."

    Such as?

    "Funnily enough, the failed rapper cliche is also common among wannabe jihadis in places like Kreuzberg or Marxloh."

    Or among white kids who aspire to be the next PewDiePie.

    Good thing you’re here to darkly warn against the spectre haunting Europe, the spectre of Pewdiepie

  128. @Anon
    It's clear that these people are getting extremely uncomfortable with the public's growing interest in genetics. So much for "I ****** love science!"

    I suspect that they'll have a bigger problem on their hands soon. The rise of 23andMe and its competitors is likely to have some very interesting social implications. For the first time in the history of humanity, it is possible for anyone to easily and cheaply identify his genetic heritage. This really is something new under the sun. In the past these things lived in the realm of family lore, where the truth was mixed with silly legends and uncomfortable facts were suppressed. Not possible anymore.

    Beyond simply showing ancestry and family relations, these services provide raw data that can be run through tools like Promethease for more fine-grained analysis. And those tools will steadily improve as GWAS results pile up.

    These things are quite new and remain novelties...for the moment. But more and more people are walking around with genetic information that they never had before, and it is going to make them think.

    109, Old (((Suze Wojcicki))) won’t even provide honest viewer counts at (((Youtube))) so counting on (((Ann 23&Me Wojciciki))) not to fiddle the findings is a long shot.

    The Brin-Wojcicki’s –

  129. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Your father aimed low as well, but too bad he hit the mark.

    I’d ask you to take this outside, but you’d have home-gutter advantage.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Yeah I can tell you don't get out much. The real world is a scary place.
  130. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    It's amazing how often sports oddsmakers and line setters are right, and how often nytimes writers are wrong; Only one of them puts their money where their mouth is. Jimmy the Greek naming the love that dare not speak its name:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzB7IsmOegE

    Yes I remember this event when it happened with Jimmy…I only partly agree with him because clearly football didn’t even exist at the time of slavery in the US; so that couldn’t have been the reason why slave owners wanted very big strong male slaves. Obviously, they were looking for strong farm workers…

    It was just a happy coincidence that the largest group of millionaires in the black community is now comprised of black football players.

    Actually Africans compared to African-Americans are quite a bit smaller.

    I was reading up on some incident in South Africa recently where overnight a squatters’ camp was set up on a farmer’s land. They called in a group especially formed for this purpose that dismantles these settlements and the group’s name was the Red Ants…Not the Lions or the Bulls or anything of that nature but the Red Ants…

    Just thought that was interesting…

  131. @Jane Plain
    I'd ask you to take this outside, but you'd have home-gutter advantage.

    Yeah I can tell you don’t get out much. The real world is a scary place.

    • Replies: @Jane Plain
    Gotcha. Weak response, dude.

    But don't worry, in a race to the bottom, you'll always win.
  132. @Jack D

    Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”
     
    I'm not sure that's really a true statement, even from an HBD perspective. Rather it is some kind of straw man position meant to make HBD look bad. A lot of ghetto youth say that they want to be doctors or lawyers even though they can barely read or do basic math - their ambitions are high but not at all realistic (of course rapper and NBA star are also common ambitions - every youf who is arrested is an "aspiring rapper").

    IQ is certainly linked to genetics but is there an "ambition" gene? What differs not so much are ambitions but g linked traits like the ability to delay gratification and execute long term plans (and the ability to learn abstract material) so that you can actually carry out your ambitions.

  133. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Yeah I can tell you don't get out much. The real world is a scary place.

    Gotcha. Weak response, dude.

    But don’t worry, in a race to the bottom, you’ll always win.

  134. @Tertius
    Genetic research has and will reveal truths that can no longer be denied. What if, instead of pretending that stupidity doesn't exist in large parts humanity, it was viewed as a condition that is capable of amelioration or elimination. A vaccine for mental dullness similar to a vaccine for polio. Our world would be a very different place if average global IQ could be increased by 20-30%.

    Yes this is the Great Hope of the left. That science will finally render all of these concerns (race, gender, class) irrelevant.

    They just need to hold the ideological fort until the scientific cavalry arrives to save them.

  135. @lavoisier

    This is the Establishment’s response to the question many here have pondered: How is the Left going to respond when the scientific evidence regarding race becomes irrefutable?
     
    They are not going to back down from their belief that there is no such thing as race. Their belief in the fundamental equality of all people is central to their sense of self-worth. Absent this totemic illusion they would realize that they are nothing more than a rag tag bunch of deluded fools clinging to an egalitarian myth to validate their own worth as persons.

    Just as Christian Evangelicals are not going to back down from their belief in Adam and Eve and an Earth that is 6000 years old.

    The left is every bit as ignorant and intolerant as any bible belt fundamentalist.

    Yes, but the Left controls every institution of note in this country and in the whole developed world as well, the bible belt fundamentalists really only have their small part of the country, plus small parts of a few other countries as well. This is why one of them is denigrated constantly by the other one, and the one doing the denigration never gets any pushback.

    You see their horseshit isn’t, it’s a paragon of reason, if you doubt it, just ask them. Creationists who are laughably small in number get enormous attention devoted to them, because controlling a school board in rural Kansas or Alabama is an existential threat to modern society, whereas what modern day “social scientists” believe is the Revealed Truth, and, and… they are “Scientists”, Scientists I tell you! why it’s in their very names!

    • Replies: @lavoisier

    You see their horseshit isn’t, it’s a paragon of reason, if you doubt it, just ask them. Creationists who are laughably small in number get enormous attention devoted to them, because controlling a school board in rural Kansas or Alabama is an existential threat to modern society, whereas what modern day “social scientists” believe is the Revealed Truth, and, and… they are “Scientists”, Scientists I tell you! why it’s in their very names!
     
    Completely agree.

    The fundamentalists do not make their arguments, with few exceptions, based on science. They make their arguments, ridiculous as they are, based on faith.

    The leftists on the other hand argue that there is no such thing as race and that there cannot be any genetic differences in behavior patterns between geographically separated human populations based on "science."

    In these efforts they will find support from cowards ensconced in academic enclaves who lie for a living and pretend to be scientists.

    Either evolution by natural selection is true or not.

    Most of the liberals with the fish symbol on their bumper proclaiming belief in Darwin are egalitarian hypocrites and fools.

    No daylight between leftists and bible thumpers. In fact bible thumpers are less dishonest.

  136. @CCZ
    For that physics class, don't forget to include everyone's favorite black lady “physicist” Chanda Prescod-Weinstein (Department of Physics and Astronomy and Department of Women’s and Gender Studies).

    Making Black Women Scientists under White Empiricism: The Racialization of Epistemology in Physics

    "I take on the question of how the exclusion of Black American women from physics impacts physics epistemologies.... I describe the phenomenon where white epistemic claims about science—which are not rooted in empirical evidence—receive more credence and attention than Black women’s epistemic claims about their own lives."

    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/704991

    Thanks.

  137. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    I suspect that they’ll have a bigger problem on their hands soon. The rise of 23andMe and its competitors is likely to have some very interesting social implications. For the first time in the history of humanity, it is possible for anyone to easily and cheaply identify his genetic heritage. This really is something new under the sun. In the past these things lived in the realm of family lore, where the truth was mixed with silly legends and uncomfortable facts were suppressed. Not possible anymore.
     
    If you read Carly Simon's biography, the reader is struck with the notion that Carly and her mom acted like crazy black ladies. Lack of commitment to marriage, and bizarre relationships stemming from that.

    Example: Carly found a secret crawl hole in her parents mansion that her mother utilized to sneak her personal trainer into her bedroom at night. Carly herself is known to be pretty crazy. To this day, James Taylor refuses to speak to her.

    I think the major genetic trait of subsaharan blacks might be lack of conscientiousness. You can have a lower IQ, to a point, and still make your way in the world well enough if that is an functional, operative trait.

    Sans that trait, almost regardless of IQ, rest assured, your life is gonna be a shitshow.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpLNkuVCp8g

    Perhaps like Ava Gardner, Carly has just a smidgen of the tar brush. Like “aged”- read, just slightly rotten-steaks. That was Winstead’s secret by the way.

    Both Gardner and at least two of the Simon sisters were said to be spectacular fucks from what sources I consider reliable first hand knowledge have told me. Alas, they are now long since gone.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ten percent is not a smidgen. Simon got her behavior genes from the black, but to the average person she doesn't look black. However, she is of at least average-for-White intelligence and perhaps even average-for Ashkenazi intelligence.

    When you get a lot of people with a lot of mixing, you get some people that look pretty much black and think and/or act white and vice versa.

    As far as bedroom prowess, there is a reason why the upper crust married alabaster white and if they had a mistress in middle age it was often a high yellow or at least a "smidgen-of-the-brush". They did not intend to have children by the mistress and if they did the kid would be provided for but would not carry the name, nor control a substantial chunk of the estate. The mistress had a good deal by her own reckoning-if she had a kid she and the kid did better than they would have if she had married her own kind and a white or close-enough-to-white kid could provide for her in her old age. I don't find such women attractive but a lot of wealthy men did. The wild sex was the real appeal though.

    I bet old James Taylor never knew what hit him. By the time he had her figured out as a total nutter, they had at least one kid and he had too late in life learned that old saying about there being two kinds of women, one for marrying and the other for sex. Tommy Mottola, the son of legendary jazz and studio guitarist Tony Mottola and therefore a man that should have known better, got taken for a similar ride by the vocally talented but even crazier parda Mariah Carey.

    I've never met Carly or her sisters in person but I have been within ten feet of Mariah Carey. I was most surprised, and in not a good way, by her skin tone. She's an appalling shade of, well, what I'm not sure, but it was weird and off-putting.
  138. @Reg Cæsar
    Thanks for two-minute argument for the Hays Code.

    LOL, any time my friend!

  139. >In a 2018 survey of 721 students from affluent, majority-Hitler high schools, Dr. Donovan found that one in five agreed with statements like “Members of one racial group are more ambitious than members of another racial group because of genetics.”

    A similar percentage of Hitler American adults attribute the black-Hitler income gap to genetic differences, according to an estimate by a team of sociologists published this fall. Though rarely acknowledged in debates over affirmative action or polling responses, “belief in genetic causes of racial inequality remains widespread in the United States,” wrote Ann Morning, of New York University, and her colleagues. <

    Stop the Hitler Americans before the Cossacks show up!

  140. @ic1000
    Steve quotes a NYT commenter who claims that he or she was among the high school seniors who were subjects of Donovan's experiment:

    I was not a fan of the curriculum. First, I felt that the curriculum was painfully long and drawn-out for a second-year, AP/IB senior-level biology course. The entire process took about 1-3 months; in reality, I felt that simply being lectured about the topics in 1-2 days would have been plenty sufficient.
     
    Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate courses are designed to be challenging, and they are. For the AP, the yearlong course culminates with sitting for an exam in May. The tests are boxed and shipped to the College Board, where they are graded on a uniform, national 1 to 5 score.

    "3" means "adequate," e.g. equal to a "C" performance by a freshman or sophomore taking university-level BIO101, "Introduction to Biology."

    "4" translates to "excellent" and "5" to "outstanding."

    Many competitive universities will give a course credit for performing at the "5" or "4" level. Talented students who succeed at three or four AP exams can shave a semester off their bachelor's degree.

    The Donovan/Harmon curriculum consumes at least one-eighth of the classroom time that is available to cover the 8-unit AP Biology syllabus, described here (download the PDF and refer to pages 17-24).
    Unit 1: Chemistry of Life
    Unit 2: Cell Structure and Function
    Unit 3: Cellular Energetics
    Unit 4: Cell Communication and Cell Cycle
    Unit 5: Heredity
    Unit 6: Gene Expression and Regulation
    Unit 7: Natural Selection
    Unit 8: Ecology

    The Donovan/Harmon material is helpful in learning none of these units. With respect to the AP exam, it's a complete waste of students' time.

    I'd like to do a study of the effect that adoption of the Donovan/Harmon program has on AP Biology exam scores. Will the NSF fund my proposal?

    Advanced Placement courses are loaded with stuff to learn.

  141. @bigdicknick
    what's their methodology for determining blackness? Pretty much all dominican players are at least part black although they often do not identify as black.

    I just looked at a random MLB roster…if you count players who are clearly part black the roster was 10/40 or 25% black. I doubt this team is significantly blacker than the rest of the league. I find the 8% number HIGHLY dubious.

    Edit: Just saw they specificed US born blacks. So it’s probably accurate.

  142. “Something like ‘These ideas are dangerous, and ‘How do we have a safe conversation about unsafe ideas?’” one teacher said. “But I would have to practice it so I don’t choke up like I am now.’’

    Mamma mia… The road is long, Mr Sailer.

  143. @Reg Cæsar

    ...the basic function of the strands of DNA coiled in every cell.
     
    Instead you laid still in the grass
    All coiled up and hissin'
    -- REO Speedwagon

    The lessons are structured around two fictional teenagers, Robin and Taylor
     
    If you want sexual ambiguity, why not just call them Peyton and Payton?

    Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003?

     

    Not even on the Patriots? That's some aggressive affirmative action.

    Has Paul Kersey addressed this?

    Curiosity is the enemy.
     
    Always has been.


    https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22821270/20180405/020050/styles/raw/public/processed_images/1522951250-1522951250-2322.jpg?width=725

    In the pilot study that helped Dr. Donovan secure a research grant...

     

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hoEle04qu_U

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UC9pc4U40sI

    Thanks for the animal cruelty picture.

    NOT.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Would you prefer Lavoisier on the tumbril?
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Would you prefer Lavoisier on the tumbril?


    https://www.lookandlearn.com/history-images/preview/M/M250/M250497_Execution-of-Antoine-Lavoisier-1794.jpg


    You're assuming the animal was hanged, rather than hung. More likely it met its demise in some other way, perhaps even of natural causes.

    We won't know until we read the catopsy.
  144. @Jack D

    who both understand that the differences between the DNA in any two people make up about one-tenth of 1 percent of their genome.
     
    This is such a meaningless statistic. The differences between a human and a chimpanzee make up around 1% of their genome. Even a human and a dog or a cat share a high % of their genomes with humans (and with each other). Most of your genome is made up of genes that encode for proteins that are vital to all mammals or vertebrates and in some cases to all living things so they can't be very different or you wouldn't survive. The human genome has 3 billion base pairs so a .1% difference means that you could have 3,000,000 different sequences than the person standing next to you. 3,000,000 is a lot. Sometime just a change in a single sequence of a single gene is the difference between life and death, between a normal individual and one that will be stillborn or will die after a few months.

    It's possible to propagandize this in a completely opposite way:

    "who both understand that any two people may differ in their DNA in about 3 million different places. "

    "who both understand that any two people may differ in their DNA about 1/10th as much as they differ from a chimpanzee. "

    This is such a meaningless statistic. The differences between a human and a chimpanzee make up around 1% of their genome….The human genome has 3 billion base pairs so a .1% difference means that you could have 3,000,000 different sequences than the person standing next to you. 3,000,000 is a lot.

    “who both understand that any two people may differ in their DNA in about 3 million different places. ”

    Excellent summary Jack. I will be re-using this in other places (though without attribution).

    Agree: Johann Ricke

  145. @Unladen Swallow
    Yes, but the Left controls every institution of note in this country and in the whole developed world as well, the bible belt fundamentalists really only have their small part of the country, plus small parts of a few other countries as well. This is why one of them is denigrated constantly by the other one, and the one doing the denigration never gets any pushback.

    You see their horseshit isn't, it's a paragon of reason, if you doubt it, just ask them. Creationists who are laughably small in number get enormous attention devoted to them, because controlling a school board in rural Kansas or Alabama is an existential threat to modern society, whereas what modern day "social scientists" believe is the Revealed Truth, and, and... they are "Scientists", Scientists I tell you! why it's in their very names!

    You see their horseshit isn’t, it’s a paragon of reason, if you doubt it, just ask them. Creationists who are laughably small in number get enormous attention devoted to them, because controlling a school board in rural Kansas or Alabama is an existential threat to modern society, whereas what modern day “social scientists” believe is the Revealed Truth, and, and… they are “Scientists”, Scientists I tell you! why it’s in their very names!

    Completely agree.

    The fundamentalists do not make their arguments, with few exceptions, based on science. They make their arguments, ridiculous as they are, based on faith.

    The leftists on the other hand argue that there is no such thing as race and that there cannot be any genetic differences in behavior patterns between geographically separated human populations based on “science.”

    In these efforts they will find support from cowards ensconced in academic enclaves who lie for a living and pretend to be scientists.

    Either evolution by natural selection is true or not.

    Most of the liberals with the fish symbol on their bumper proclaiming belief in Darwin are egalitarian hypocrites and fools.

    No daylight between leftists and bible thumpers. In fact bible thumpers are less dishonest.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Focusing on creationists is the left wing academics way of saying " Look, a squirrel ".
    , @Mr. Rational
    I fear that I must agree with you.  Leftists are now MORE dishonest.
    , @anon
    Either evolution by natural selection is true or not.

    Lefties believe in evolution. Most of them don't really understand it, but they believe in it with fervor that looks pretty religious to me.

    But evolution stops at the neck. The brain is not an organ subject to evolutionary forces, because reasons, and anyone who says so is a sexist, a racist, a homophobe and should be Canceled.

    But they do love science. Just ask them.
  146. @nebulafox
    >And along the way, those high IQ types may purposely seek ideas that conform to their preexisting notions while trying to explain away counter evidence.

    That's called: human beings being human beings. Happens a lot. The means to self-delude can be what differ.

    >What a tortured analogy.

    Deliberately crafted to be on the intellectual level of a tortured little man. I hope you enjoyed your Saturnalia present, straight from Santa's workshop to your heart.

    >Such as?

    The Khmer Rouge.

    >Or among white kids who aspire to be the next PewDiePie.

    1) A sizable minority of wannabe jihadi losers in Europe are white.

    2) PewDiePie does not pose a threat to the stability of one government, let alone several ranging across multiple continents, outside of your head.

    “That’s called: human beings being human beings. Happens a lot.”

    Including you? How about Mr. Sailer?

    “Deliberately crafted to be on the intellectual level of a tortured little man.”

    Don’t be too hard on yourself.

    “1) A sizable minority of wannabe jihadi losers in Europe are white.”

    How anti-white for you to say.

    “2) PewDiePie does not pose a threat to the stability of one government, let alone several ranging across multiple continents, outside of your head.”

    He represents the scourge of Cultural Marxism, which rears its ugly head everywhere. Internet stars are ruining America’s white youth. Why are being purposely obtuse here?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    >Including you? How about Mr. Sailer?

    I try to be up front about my biases. We all have them: the more you believe you don't, the more of a hold it has on you. As for Steve, you'll have to ask him.

    Now, you, on the other hand, happen to believe in reanimated Palestinian Jewish apocalyptics...

    >How anti-white for you to say.

    Ah, Corvy, the world can sometimes be a very complicated place. Sometimes Muslims have blue eyes! Sometimes Christians are black or Asian! Sometimes Buddhists are violent!

    What can I say? You and your friends on the alt-right are dealing with it how you can, I suppose.

    >He represents the scourge of Cultural Marxism, which rears its ugly head everywhere. Internet stars are ruining America’s white youth. Why are being purposely obtuse here?

    So, Vox Day has been teaching you big boy words. Very clever! But can he follow that up with teaching you more credible conspiracy theories?

  147. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/jlegewie/status/1202331872786825217

    I’m wondering when we will have enough of these cut-and-paste studies:

    How does _______ affect the health of Blacks? complete with the usual disparities in health and crime outcomes.

    I’m waiting for someone to suggest that the solution is replacing Black people with White people ’cause, you know, everyone is equal and interchangeable.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational

    I’m waiting for someone to suggest that the solution is replacing Black people with White people ’cause, you know, everyone is equal and interchangeable.
     
    I already suggested giving them donated White embryos so that "their" children would not be subject to discrimination on the basis of their skin.  Feel free to suggest this to anyone who says that race is just a social construct.  Report back on just how much incoherent outrage it produces.

    Even the most committed leftards don't believe that race is not genetic.  Forcing them to confront this contradiction between knowledge and Narrative breaks their brains, and the more severely and frequently you can break them, the sooner you can either disable them entirely or convert them.
  148. “The differences within each group are larger than the differences between groups.”

    So? This maps onto “The income differences within each group are larger than the income differences between groups.”

    For the sake of argument, let’s say Jim Simons is white. He made $1.6 billion last year. The white hobo down the street made nothing. So without arguing about Bezos’s income, there’s a floor of $1.6 billion intra-white income range.

    On the other hand the white-black household income gap for 2017 was $69,851 – $40,324 = $29,633. Since 30 grand is less than 1.6 billion, there are bigger differences within groups than between groups. If I understand Current Year Logic correctly, that means the differences between groups should be ignored.

    • Agree: bomag
  149. @lavoisier

    You see their horseshit isn’t, it’s a paragon of reason, if you doubt it, just ask them. Creationists who are laughably small in number get enormous attention devoted to them, because controlling a school board in rural Kansas or Alabama is an existential threat to modern society, whereas what modern day “social scientists” believe is the Revealed Truth, and, and… they are “Scientists”, Scientists I tell you! why it’s in their very names!
     
    Completely agree.

    The fundamentalists do not make their arguments, with few exceptions, based on science. They make their arguments, ridiculous as they are, based on faith.

    The leftists on the other hand argue that there is no such thing as race and that there cannot be any genetic differences in behavior patterns between geographically separated human populations based on "science."

    In these efforts they will find support from cowards ensconced in academic enclaves who lie for a living and pretend to be scientists.

    Either evolution by natural selection is true or not.

    Most of the liberals with the fish symbol on their bumper proclaiming belief in Darwin are egalitarian hypocrites and fools.

    No daylight between leftists and bible thumpers. In fact bible thumpers are less dishonest.

    Focusing on creationists is the left wing academics way of saying ” Look, a squirrel “.

  150. @lavoisier
    Thanks for the animal cruelty picture.

    NOT.

    Would you prefer Lavoisier on the tumbril?

  151. @lavoisier
    Thanks for the animal cruelty picture.

    NOT.

    Would you prefer Lavoisier on the tumbril?

    You’re assuming the animal was hanged, rather than hung. More likely it met its demise in some other way, perhaps even of natural causes.

    We won’t know until we read the catopsy.

    • Replies: @lavoisier

    More likely it met its demise in some other way, perhaps even of natural causes.
     
    I would prefer not to be exposed to it regardless of cause of death.
  152. We won’t know until we read the catopsy.

    Round up the usual suspects. Start with Curiosity.

  153. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Perhaps like Ava Gardner, Carly has just a smidgen of the tar brush. Like “aged”- read, just slightly rotten-steaks. That was Winstead’s secret by the way.

    Both Gardner and at least two of the Simon sisters were said to be spectacular fucks from what sources I consider reliable first hand knowledge have told me. Alas, they are now long since gone.

    Ten percent is not a smidgen. Simon got her behavior genes from the black, but to the average person she doesn’t look black. However, she is of at least average-for-White intelligence and perhaps even average-for Ashkenazi intelligence.

    When you get a lot of people with a lot of mixing, you get some people that look pretty much black and think and/or act white and vice versa.

    As far as bedroom prowess, there is a reason why the upper crust married alabaster white and if they had a mistress in middle age it was often a high yellow or at least a “smidgen-of-the-brush”. They did not intend to have children by the mistress and if they did the kid would be provided for but would not carry the name, nor control a substantial chunk of the estate. The mistress had a good deal by her own reckoning-if she had a kid she and the kid did better than they would have if she had married her own kind and a white or close-enough-to-white kid could provide for her in her old age. I don’t find such women attractive but a lot of wealthy men did. The wild sex was the real appeal though.

    I bet old James Taylor never knew what hit him. By the time he had her figured out as a total nutter, they had at least one kid and he had too late in life learned that old saying about there being two kinds of women, one for marrying and the other for sex. Tommy Mottola, the son of legendary jazz and studio guitarist Tony Mottola and therefore a man that should have known better, got taken for a similar ride by the vocally talented but even crazier parda Mariah Carey.

    I’ve never met Carly or her sisters in person but I have been within ten feet of Mariah Carey. I was most surprised, and in not a good way, by her skin tone. She’s an appalling shade of, well, what I’m not sure, but it was weird and off-putting.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I don't know what you were expecting - she's is within the range of coloring you would expect of someone who is about 1/4 African (Northern European mother and mulatto father). Mariah has a sister who looks much more African but Mariah takes after her mother, but with a touch of yaller. Naturally her black father did not stick around for long after she was born.

    https://www.iloveoldschoolmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/mariah-dada-and-sister1.jpg

  154. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!)
     
    Sorry, but this sounds like the race realist CivNat version of "My best friend is black so I'm not a racist."

    Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that while there are group differences, we shouldn't judge individuals by their race because there is so much overlap. What's more, you also seem to be implying that those that do are, in fact, racist, a term which despite being overused by the Left is still a bad thing.

    I beg to differ. I believe that you should judge an individual by their race if 1) you will be dealing with anyone in this person's family (especially extended family) or 2) you and your people will be dealing with this person and their prodigy beyond one generation.

    Regression to the mean.

    Regression to the mean says that this individual's extended family will be closer the race's mean. It also means that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be closer to the race's mean unless they go to great lengths to avoid such an outcome which, by definition, is only available to a few so it doesn't matter in general.

    My apologies if this isn't your view, but I'm sick of race realist CivNats failing to connect the obvious dots.

    I’d just give you an “Agree”, but the ridiculous 3/8hr limit won’t let me.

  155. @lavoisier

    You see their horseshit isn’t, it’s a paragon of reason, if you doubt it, just ask them. Creationists who are laughably small in number get enormous attention devoted to them, because controlling a school board in rural Kansas or Alabama is an existential threat to modern society, whereas what modern day “social scientists” believe is the Revealed Truth, and, and… they are “Scientists”, Scientists I tell you! why it’s in their very names!
     
    Completely agree.

    The fundamentalists do not make their arguments, with few exceptions, based on science. They make their arguments, ridiculous as they are, based on faith.

    The leftists on the other hand argue that there is no such thing as race and that there cannot be any genetic differences in behavior patterns between geographically separated human populations based on "science."

    In these efforts they will find support from cowards ensconced in academic enclaves who lie for a living and pretend to be scientists.

    Either evolution by natural selection is true or not.

    Most of the liberals with the fish symbol on their bumper proclaiming belief in Darwin are egalitarian hypocrites and fools.

    No daylight between leftists and bible thumpers. In fact bible thumpers are less dishonest.

    I fear that I must agree with you.  Leftists are now MORE dishonest.

  156. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    (Tom Sowell is smarter than most white guys!)
     
    Sorry, but this sounds like the race realist CivNat version of "My best friend is black so I'm not a racist."

    Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that while there are group differences, we shouldn't judge individuals by their race because there is so much overlap. What's more, you also seem to be implying that those that do are, in fact, racist, a term which despite being overused by the Left is still a bad thing.

    I beg to differ. I believe that you should judge an individual by their race if 1) you will be dealing with anyone in this person's family (especially extended family) or 2) you and your people will be dealing with this person and their prodigy beyond one generation.

    Regression to the mean.

    Regression to the mean says that this individual's extended family will be closer the race's mean. It also means that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be closer to the race's mean unless they go to great lengths to avoid such an outcome which, by definition, is only available to a few so it doesn't matter in general.

    My apologies if this isn't your view, but I'm sick of race realist CivNats failing to connect the obvious dots.

    Citizen of a Silly Country wrote to me:

    Maybe I’m wrong, but you seem to be implying that while there are group differences, we shouldn’t judge individuals by their race because there is so much overlap.

    Yes, that is what I am implying, when you can get enough information to judge individuals as individuals. I have in fact met Tom Sowell: aside from being very bright, he is also a real gentleman. I’d be happy to have him as a neighbor.

    CoaSC also wrote:

    Regression to the mean says that this individual’s extended family will be closer the race’s mean. It also means that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be closer to the race’s mean unless they go to great lengths to avoid such an outcome which, by definition, is only available to a few so it doesn’t matter in general.

    What if they marry someone of a different race or a very bright person of their race?

    CoaSC also wrote:

    My apologies if this isn’t your view, but I’m sick of race realist CivNats failing to connect the obvious dots.

    Hey, you’ve nailed me. Black people have been here a very long time — longer than most white folks. They are going to stay here. We are going to have to live in the same country.

    I therefore intend to judge them as individuals to the degree I can. If you manage to convince most white folks not to do so… well, that will not end well.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Hey, you’ve nailed me. Black people have been here a very long time — longer than most white folks. They are going to stay here. We are going to have to live in the same country.
     
    When the United States breaks up, there probably will be parts where people of all races may live (but they may have other requirements,such as religion, etc.) and there will almost certainly be one or more restricted to certain races. Within each race there are some who would prefer to live amongst only their own. In the former Yugoslavia, they're all more or less "white", but there are places where they are all one ethny or religion and others where they are all a different one. If you think there is no difference between a Serb or a Croat you are entitled to your opinion, but if you go over there and say that to their face you will very quickly wish you had not.
    , @Mr. Rational

    What if they marry someone of a different race or a very bright person of their race?
     
    We know how this works out already.  Families of black PhD's moved into Shaker Heights, OH.  Their offspring averaged IQ of just 99.  Regression to the mean is real, and relentless.

    I therefore intend to judge them as individuals to the degree I can.
     
    Keep in mind that when you have one nearby, you are not just getting them.  You are also getting their children, siblings, and often cousins, nieces and nephews.

    What word starts with N, ends with R, and is the worst thing you can call a black person?

    "Neighbor".
  157. anon[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @lavoisier

    You see their horseshit isn’t, it’s a paragon of reason, if you doubt it, just ask them. Creationists who are laughably small in number get enormous attention devoted to them, because controlling a school board in rural Kansas or Alabama is an existential threat to modern society, whereas what modern day “social scientists” believe is the Revealed Truth, and, and… they are “Scientists”, Scientists I tell you! why it’s in their very names!
     
    Completely agree.

    The fundamentalists do not make their arguments, with few exceptions, based on science. They make their arguments, ridiculous as they are, based on faith.

    The leftists on the other hand argue that there is no such thing as race and that there cannot be any genetic differences in behavior patterns between geographically separated human populations based on "science."

    In these efforts they will find support from cowards ensconced in academic enclaves who lie for a living and pretend to be scientists.

    Either evolution by natural selection is true or not.

    Most of the liberals with the fish symbol on their bumper proclaiming belief in Darwin are egalitarian hypocrites and fools.

    No daylight between leftists and bible thumpers. In fact bible thumpers are less dishonest.

    Either evolution by natural selection is true or not.

    Lefties believe in evolution. Most of them don’t really understand it, but they believe in it with fervor that looks pretty religious to me.

    But evolution stops at the neck. The brain is not an organ subject to evolutionary forces, because reasons, and anyone who says so is a sexist, a racist, a homophobe and should be Canceled.

    But they do love science. Just ask them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The left believes in punctuated equilibrium, a theory mainly promoted by Stephen Jay Gould. This argues that evolution is real, but that it periodically stops for long periods of time. Applied to humans, it means that human evolution stopped several tens of thousands of years ago, and the only changes since then are very minor and superficial (skin color etc.)
  158. @Corvinus
    "You can educate someone as to your point of view in a day or two, but if you want to reeducate them (also known as brainwashing) it takes a much longer time to break down their defenses."

    Isn't that what HbD, aka "race realism", is all about? A true believer of this philosophy will not be convinced of ideas to the contrary. Their beliefs are allegedly based on sound scientific principles, but in reality they are rooted on blind faith, specious reasoning, and a weak-willed NEED to believe. It enables self-deceivers an excuse not to think critically of the counter evidence because everything that does fit into their world view is "Fake News".

    Some would argue that is easier to dupe high IQ types since they focus more on the nitty gritty details. Perhaps today's propaganda and brainwashing is designed for the "thinking classes", rather than the "unwashed masses". Pray tell, Jack D, what group do you belong?

    Furthermore, I would submit that those true believers who are 100% certain of their commit a fatal error in epistemological judgment. Why? Their unvarnished emotional investment in their position. Thus, when these true believers are maintain their false premise despite being confronted with facts that refute them, they rely on confirmation bias as the means to remain safely entrenched in their intellectual redoubt.

    Corvinus wrote:

    Isn’t that what HbD, aka “race realism”, is all about? A true believer of this philosophy will not be convinced of ideas to the contrary. Their beliefs are allegedly based on sound scientific principles, but in reality they are rooted on blind faith, specious reasoning, and a weak-willed NEED to believe.

    Depends on what you mean by HBD, I suppose. The idea that there are huge differences among races on all sorts of traits and that these usually swamp individual differences within a race is an empirical claim that is, I suspect, false.

    On the other hand, the expectation that for any trait that differs within a population you will likely also get a difference in the average between two ethnic groups is rather elementary population genetics. Not faith any more than belief in the heliocentric theory is faith.

    To put it concretely, do you think the BSCS folks described in the article are doing something wrong?

    Of course, both the heliocentric theory and elementary population genetics could, in principle, be empirically proven to be false. But it is not very likely.

    By the way, have you noticed that there is a rather fierce debate in this comment section between those who want to judge human beings by their race and those of us who want to judge them as individuals? I think that you, nebulafox, and I are actually on the same side of that debate: perhaps you are making a mistake in viewing nebulafox as your enemy?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    It also wouldn't necessarily have as total implications as people suppose. Suppose HBD is true. Africans, on average, have lesser IQs than other races, and not just because Africa still has tons of stupid childhood diseases and malnutrition and deformities caused by environmental disasters and whatnot that will naturally dent IQ results. But Africa has two billion inhabitants split over a mind-boggling amount of different ethnic groups. That means you are still going to have a sizable amount of people with higher-than-average IQs, just because of sheer numbers.

    My own suspicion is basically akin to yours: basic biological intuition makes the sort of blank-slate dogmatism favored by The Usual Suspects (i.e, Gouldism) untenable, including between different racial groups, but there's a lot of ground between that and believing race trumps individuality. You don't even see that in dog breeds, why would you see it in humans? I'm not a professional geneticist, or even a scientist at all, so the best attitude for me to take is studied humility and to be leery of anything that sounds too simple.

    (I'd also be shocked if, say, China during the Century of Humiliation didn't have a lower average IQ than under the peak Qing or right now, judging by the behavior and beliefs of the inhabitants. The same could be said of Renaissance-era Germany and Thirty Year's War-era Germany. These things can shift over the centuries. Of course, that also brings in the question of whether "IQ" would mean anything in a government where official positions were based off memorizing the Confucian classics!)

  159. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave
    Citizen of a Silly Country wrote to me:

    Maybe I’m wrong, but you seem to be implying that while there are group differences, we shouldn’t judge individuals by their race because there is so much overlap.
     
    Yes, that is what I am implying, when you can get enough information to judge individuals as individuals. I have in fact met Tom Sowell: aside from being very bright, he is also a real gentleman. I'd be happy to have him as a neighbor.

    CoaSC also wrote:

    Regression to the mean says that this individual’s extended family will be closer the race’s mean. It also means that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be closer to the race’s mean unless they go to great lengths to avoid such an outcome which, by definition, is only available to a few so it doesn’t matter in general.
     
    What if they marry someone of a different race or a very bright person of their race?

    CoaSC also wrote:

    My apologies if this isn’t your view, but I’m sick of race realist CivNats failing to connect the obvious dots.
     
    Hey, you've nailed me. Black people have been here a very long time -- longer than most white folks. They are going to stay here. We are going to have to live in the same country.

    I therefore intend to judge them as individuals to the degree I can. If you manage to convince most white folks not to do so... well, that will not end well.

    Hey, you’ve nailed me. Black people have been here a very long time — longer than most white folks. They are going to stay here. We are going to have to live in the same country.

    When the United States breaks up, there probably will be parts where people of all races may live (but they may have other requirements,such as religion, etc.) and there will almost certainly be one or more restricted to certain races. Within each race there are some who would prefer to live amongst only their own. In the former Yugoslavia, they’re all more or less “white”, but there are places where they are all one ethny or religion and others where they are all a different one. If you think there is no difference between a Serb or a Croat you are entitled to your opinion, but if you go over there and say that to their face you will very quickly wish you had not.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Anonymous[427] wrote to me:

    When the United States breaks up, there probably will be parts where people of all races may live (but they may have other requirements,such as religion, etc.) and there will almost certainly be one or more restricted to certain races.
     
    I'm not so sure. I grew up in mid-century in a very conservative, lily-white suburb in a border state.

    On the face of it, very conservative, and the older generations quite racist.

    And yet... I had several teachers in junior high and high school who were almost certainly gay (one I know for certain). The three ranged from a pretty good teacher to a great teacher to the best teacher I ever had.

    And the funny thing is that in this conservative, bigoted community, these teachers were highly respected and even liked by the students and parents because they were wonderful, dedicated teachers who clearly cared about their students.

    I saw this again and again and again growing up. "Officially" the community was bigoted against all sorts of people. But in practice if one of those people proved to have a special talent or to be a hard worker or simply to be a good neighbor... well, the attitude was "I don't like most people like Joe, but, hey, Joe himself is really a great guy, y'know."

    America has always been a generous, tolerant country. People today underestimate the actual tolerance most Americans had for other Americans back in the days before the various "rights" revolutions. My bet is that any region of America is open to atheists, gays, blacks, etc. The real difference is probably just in the social norms as to what sort of behavior is acceptable in public.

    Remember the old Victorian attitude: live your life as you wish as long as you don't do it in the streets and frighten the horses!
  160. Anonymous[229] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    Either evolution by natural selection is true or not.

    Lefties believe in evolution. Most of them don't really understand it, but they believe in it with fervor that looks pretty religious to me.

    But evolution stops at the neck. The brain is not an organ subject to evolutionary forces, because reasons, and anyone who says so is a sexist, a racist, a homophobe and should be Canceled.

    But they do love science. Just ask them.

    The left believes in punctuated equilibrium, a theory mainly promoted by Stephen Jay Gould. This argues that evolution is real, but that it periodically stops for long periods of time. Applied to humans, it means that human evolution stopped several tens of thousands of years ago, and the only changes since then are very minor and superficial (skin color etc.)

    • Replies: @anon
    Punctuated equilibrium looks a lot like the "cosmic clockmaker" brought up to date. There are things it cannot explain, so maybe not such good science. But they luv science, just ask.

    Again, they believe with a deep and abiding faith in the blank slate, i.e. that evolution stops at the neck, despite evidence to the contrary.

    Cochrane and Harpending's "10,000 year explosion" is a far better book to read than Gould's.

  161. anon[399] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    The left believes in punctuated equilibrium, a theory mainly promoted by Stephen Jay Gould. This argues that evolution is real, but that it periodically stops for long periods of time. Applied to humans, it means that human evolution stopped several tens of thousands of years ago, and the only changes since then are very minor and superficial (skin color etc.)

    Punctuated equilibrium looks a lot like the “cosmic clockmaker” brought up to date. There are things it cannot explain, so maybe not such good science. But they luv science, just ask.

    Again, they believe with a deep and abiding faith in the blank slate, i.e. that evolution stops at the neck, despite evidence to the contrary.

    Cochrane and Harpending’s “10,000 year explosion” is a far better book to read than Gould’s.

  162. @Anonymous
    Ten percent is not a smidgen. Simon got her behavior genes from the black, but to the average person she doesn't look black. However, she is of at least average-for-White intelligence and perhaps even average-for Ashkenazi intelligence.

    When you get a lot of people with a lot of mixing, you get some people that look pretty much black and think and/or act white and vice versa.

    As far as bedroom prowess, there is a reason why the upper crust married alabaster white and if they had a mistress in middle age it was often a high yellow or at least a "smidgen-of-the-brush". They did not intend to have children by the mistress and if they did the kid would be provided for but would not carry the name, nor control a substantial chunk of the estate. The mistress had a good deal by her own reckoning-if she had a kid she and the kid did better than they would have if she had married her own kind and a white or close-enough-to-white kid could provide for her in her old age. I don't find such women attractive but a lot of wealthy men did. The wild sex was the real appeal though.

    I bet old James Taylor never knew what hit him. By the time he had her figured out as a total nutter, they had at least one kid and he had too late in life learned that old saying about there being two kinds of women, one for marrying and the other for sex. Tommy Mottola, the son of legendary jazz and studio guitarist Tony Mottola and therefore a man that should have known better, got taken for a similar ride by the vocally talented but even crazier parda Mariah Carey.

    I've never met Carly or her sisters in person but I have been within ten feet of Mariah Carey. I was most surprised, and in not a good way, by her skin tone. She's an appalling shade of, well, what I'm not sure, but it was weird and off-putting.

    I don’t know what you were expecting – she’s is within the range of coloring you would expect of someone who is about 1/4 African (Northern European mother and mulatto father). Mariah has a sister who looks much more African but Mariah takes after her mother, but with a touch of yaller. Naturally her black father did not stick around for long after she was born.

  163. @Corvinus
    "That’s called: human beings being human beings. Happens a lot."

    Including you? How about Mr. Sailer?

    "Deliberately crafted to be on the intellectual level of a tortured little man."

    Don't be too hard on yourself.

    "1) A sizable minority of wannabe jihadi losers in Europe are white."

    How anti-white for you to say.

    "2) PewDiePie does not pose a threat to the stability of one government, let alone several ranging across multiple continents, outside of your head."

    He represents the scourge of Cultural Marxism, which rears its ugly head everywhere. Internet stars are ruining America's white youth. Why are being purposely obtuse here?

    >Including you? How about Mr. Sailer?

    I try to be up front about my biases. We all have them: the more you believe you don’t, the more of a hold it has on you. As for Steve, you’ll have to ask him.

    Now, you, on the other hand, happen to believe in reanimated Palestinian Jewish apocalyptics…

    >How anti-white for you to say.

    Ah, Corvy, the world can sometimes be a very complicated place. Sometimes Muslims have blue eyes! Sometimes Christians are black or Asian! Sometimes Buddhists are violent!

    What can I say? You and your friends on the alt-right are dealing with it how you can, I suppose.

    >He represents the scourge of Cultural Marxism, which rears its ugly head everywhere. Internet stars are ruining America’s white youth. Why are being purposely obtuse here?

    So, Vox Day has been teaching you big boy words. Very clever! But can he follow that up with teaching you more credible conspiracy theories?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I try to be up front about my biases. We all have them: the more you believe you don’t, the more of a hold it has on you."

    Great advice. Perhaps more posters here could heed it.

    "As for Steve, you’ll have to ask him."

    No need to, what he NOTICES tells us about those biases.

    "Sometimes Muslims have blue eyes! Sometimes Christians are black or Asian! Sometimes Buddhists are violent!"

    Tell me something I don't know.

    "So, Vox Day has been teaching you big boy words. Very clever! But can he follow that up with teaching you more credible conspiracy theories?"

    I'm just pointing out for argument's sake his own theory on "magic dirt". And, he does teach me that a number of his positions are way out in left field.

  164. @PhysicistDave
    Corvinus wrote:

    Isn’t that what HbD, aka “race realism”, is all about? A true believer of this philosophy will not be convinced of ideas to the contrary. Their beliefs are allegedly based on sound scientific principles, but in reality they are rooted on blind faith, specious reasoning, and a weak-willed NEED to believe.
     
    Depends on what you mean by HBD, I suppose. The idea that there are huge differences among races on all sorts of traits and that these usually swamp individual differences within a race is an empirical claim that is, I suspect, false.

    On the other hand, the expectation that for any trait that differs within a population you will likely also get a difference in the average between two ethnic groups is rather elementary population genetics. Not faith any more than belief in the heliocentric theory is faith.

    To put it concretely, do you think the BSCS folks described in the article are doing something wrong?

    Of course, both the heliocentric theory and elementary population genetics could, in principle, be empirically proven to be false. But it is not very likely.

    By the way, have you noticed that there is a rather fierce debate in this comment section between those who want to judge human beings by their race and those of us who want to judge them as individuals? I think that you, nebulafox, and I are actually on the same side of that debate: perhaps you are making a mistake in viewing nebulafox as your enemy?

    It also wouldn’t necessarily have as total implications as people suppose. Suppose HBD is true. Africans, on average, have lesser IQs than other races, and not just because Africa still has tons of stupid childhood diseases and malnutrition and deformities caused by environmental disasters and whatnot that will naturally dent IQ results. But Africa has two billion inhabitants split over a mind-boggling amount of different ethnic groups. That means you are still going to have a sizable amount of people with higher-than-average IQs, just because of sheer numbers.

    My own suspicion is basically akin to yours: basic biological intuition makes the sort of blank-slate dogmatism favored by The Usual Suspects (i.e, Gouldism) untenable, including between different racial groups, but there’s a lot of ground between that and believing race trumps individuality. You don’t even see that in dog breeds, why would you see it in humans? I’m not a professional geneticist, or even a scientist at all, so the best attitude for me to take is studied humility and to be leery of anything that sounds too simple.

    (I’d also be shocked if, say, China during the Century of Humiliation didn’t have a lower average IQ than under the peak Qing or right now, judging by the behavior and beliefs of the inhabitants. The same could be said of Renaissance-era Germany and Thirty Year’s War-era Germany. These things can shift over the centuries. Of course, that also brings in the question of whether “IQ” would mean anything in a government where official positions were based off memorizing the Confucian classics!)

  165. • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1204606785266446336
  166. @nebulafox
    >Including you? How about Mr. Sailer?

    I try to be up front about my biases. We all have them: the more you believe you don't, the more of a hold it has on you. As for Steve, you'll have to ask him.

    Now, you, on the other hand, happen to believe in reanimated Palestinian Jewish apocalyptics...

    >How anti-white for you to say.

    Ah, Corvy, the world can sometimes be a very complicated place. Sometimes Muslims have blue eyes! Sometimes Christians are black or Asian! Sometimes Buddhists are violent!

    What can I say? You and your friends on the alt-right are dealing with it how you can, I suppose.

    >He represents the scourge of Cultural Marxism, which rears its ugly head everywhere. Internet stars are ruining America’s white youth. Why are being purposely obtuse here?

    So, Vox Day has been teaching you big boy words. Very clever! But can he follow that up with teaching you more credible conspiracy theories?

    “I try to be up front about my biases. We all have them: the more you believe you don’t, the more of a hold it has on you.”

    Great advice. Perhaps more posters here could heed it.

    “As for Steve, you’ll have to ask him.”

    No need to, what he NOTICES tells us about those biases.

    “Sometimes Muslims have blue eyes! Sometimes Christians are black or Asian! Sometimes Buddhists are violent!”

    Tell me something I don’t know.

    “So, Vox Day has been teaching you big boy words. Very clever! But can he follow that up with teaching you more credible conspiracy theories?”

    I’m just pointing out for argument’s sake his own theory on “magic dirt”. And, he does teach me that a number of his positions are way out in left field.

  167. @Reg Cæsar
    Would you prefer Lavoisier on the tumbril?


    https://www.lookandlearn.com/history-images/preview/M/M250/M250497_Execution-of-Antoine-Lavoisier-1794.jpg


    You're assuming the animal was hanged, rather than hung. More likely it met its demise in some other way, perhaps even of natural causes.

    We won't know until we read the catopsy.

    More likely it met its demise in some other way, perhaps even of natural causes.

    I would prefer not to be exposed to it regardless of cause of death.

    • Replies: @Yngvar
    Talk to the manager.
  168. @Anonymous

    Hey, you’ve nailed me. Black people have been here a very long time — longer than most white folks. They are going to stay here. We are going to have to live in the same country.
     
    When the United States breaks up, there probably will be parts where people of all races may live (but they may have other requirements,such as religion, etc.) and there will almost certainly be one or more restricted to certain races. Within each race there are some who would prefer to live amongst only their own. In the former Yugoslavia, they're all more or less "white", but there are places where they are all one ethny or religion and others where they are all a different one. If you think there is no difference between a Serb or a Croat you are entitled to your opinion, but if you go over there and say that to their face you will very quickly wish you had not.

    Anonymous[427] wrote to me:

    When the United States breaks up, there probably will be parts where people of all races may live (but they may have other requirements,such as religion, etc.) and there will almost certainly be one or more restricted to certain races.

    I’m not so sure. I grew up in mid-century in a very conservative, lily-white suburb in a border state.

    On the face of it, very conservative, and the older generations quite racist.

    And yet… I had several teachers in junior high and high school who were almost certainly gay (one I know for certain). The three ranged from a pretty good teacher to a great teacher to the best teacher I ever had.

    And the funny thing is that in this conservative, bigoted community, these teachers were highly respected and even liked by the students and parents because they were wonderful, dedicated teachers who clearly cared about their students.

    I saw this again and again and again growing up. “Officially” the community was bigoted against all sorts of people. But in practice if one of those people proved to have a special talent or to be a hard worker or simply to be a good neighbor… well, the attitude was “I don’t like most people like Joe, but, hey, Joe himself is really a great guy, y’know.”

    America has always been a generous, tolerant country. People today underestimate the actual tolerance most Americans had for other Americans back in the days before the various “rights” revolutions. My bet is that any region of America is open to atheists, gays, blacks, etc. The real difference is probably just in the social norms as to what sort of behavior is acceptable in public.

    Remember the old Victorian attitude: live your life as you wish as long as you don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses!

  169. @bomag
    I'm wondering when we will have enough of these cut-and-paste studies:

    How does _______ affect the health of Blacks? complete with the usual disparities in health and crime outcomes.

    I'm waiting for someone to suggest that the solution is replacing Black people with White people 'cause, you know, everyone is equal and interchangeable.

    I’m waiting for someone to suggest that the solution is replacing Black people with White people ’cause, you know, everyone is equal and interchangeable.

    I already suggested giving them donated White embryos so that “their” children would not be subject to discrimination on the basis of their skin.  Feel free to suggest this to anyone who says that race is just a social construct.  Report back on just how much incoherent outrage it produces.

    Even the most committed leftards don’t believe that race is not genetic.  Forcing them to confront this contradiction between knowledge and Narrative breaks their brains, and the more severely and frequently you can break them, the sooner you can either disable them entirely or convert them.

    • LOL: bomag
  170. @PhysicistDave
    Citizen of a Silly Country wrote to me:

    Maybe I’m wrong, but you seem to be implying that while there are group differences, we shouldn’t judge individuals by their race because there is so much overlap.
     
    Yes, that is what I am implying, when you can get enough information to judge individuals as individuals. I have in fact met Tom Sowell: aside from being very bright, he is also a real gentleman. I'd be happy to have him as a neighbor.

    CoaSC also wrote:

    Regression to the mean says that this individual’s extended family will be closer the race’s mean. It also means that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be closer to the race’s mean unless they go to great lengths to avoid such an outcome which, by definition, is only available to a few so it doesn’t matter in general.
     
    What if they marry someone of a different race or a very bright person of their race?

    CoaSC also wrote:

    My apologies if this isn’t your view, but I’m sick of race realist CivNats failing to connect the obvious dots.
     
    Hey, you've nailed me. Black people have been here a very long time -- longer than most white folks. They are going to stay here. We are going to have to live in the same country.

    I therefore intend to judge them as individuals to the degree I can. If you manage to convince most white folks not to do so... well, that will not end well.

    What if they marry someone of a different race or a very bright person of their race?

    We know how this works out already.  Families of black PhD’s moved into Shaker Heights, OH.  Their offspring averaged IQ of just 99.  Regression to the mean is real, and relentless.

    I therefore intend to judge them as individuals to the degree I can.

    Keep in mind that when you have one nearby, you are not just getting them.  You are also getting their children, siblings, and often cousins, nieces and nephews.

    What word starts with N, ends with R, and is the worst thing you can call a black person?

    “Neighbor”.

  171. @lavoisier

    More likely it met its demise in some other way, perhaps even of natural causes.
     
    I would prefer not to be exposed to it regardless of cause of death.

    Talk to the manager.

  172. @Corvinus
    Classic Sailer “staccato grievance commentary”™. Fitting, I found this spiritual deep in my archives. Enjoy.

    Come all of you pro-whites
    Good news to you I’ll yell
    Of how human biodiversity
    Was borne from William Tell

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side

    I cannot tell a lie
    ‘Bout non-white IQ and violence rates
    I’ll just stick to makin’ up facts
    And leave the rest to fate

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side

    They say the race war is coming
    They’ll be no neutrals here
    You’ll either for genocide
    Or stringin’ up anti-whites in fear

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side

    Please note that in that same 2018 survey of 721 students from affluent, majority-white high schools, four in five had agreed with this statement--"Members of one racial group are more likely to invade the world and invite the world than members of another racial group because of genetics".

    Damn Cultural Marxism!

    Understanding that adaptation of songs and poems is usually far from perfect, this:

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side

    is about as awkward as you can get.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I have one of my own:

    Donald Trump will be falsely tried.
    One charge is obstruction of Congress, and guess who testified.
    Hill and Karlan, and others, and they all lied.
    The newspapers went along for the ride.
    How can the life of any man,
    Be in the power of these fools hands?
    To see any citizen obviously framed,
    When at one time,
    We were the champions of the World.
    , @Corvinus
    "Understanding that adaptation of songs and poems is usually far from perfect, this is about as awkward as you can get."

    It's awkward to be on the white side? Since when?
  173. @Hibernian
    Understanding that adaptation of songs and poems is usually far from perfect, this:

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side
     
    is about as awkward as you can get.

    I have one of my own:

    Donald Trump will be falsely tried.
    One charge is obstruction of Congress, and guess who testified.
    Hill and Karlan, and others, and they all lied.
    The newspapers went along for the ride.
    How can the life of any man,
    Be in the power of these fools hands?
    To see any citizen obviously framed,
    When at one time,
    We were the champions of the World.

  174. @Hibernian
    Understanding that adaptation of songs and poems is usually far from perfect, this:

    Which side are you on?
    Which side are you on?
    The white side
     
    is about as awkward as you can get.

    “Understanding that adaptation of songs and poems is usually far from perfect, this is about as awkward as you can get.”

    It’s awkward to be on the white side? Since when?

    • Replies: @Anon
    I thought you were on the side of ALL Americans. One more illusion shattered.
  175. @Lot
    “ Okay, Amy, so why hasn’t there been a nonblack starting cornerback in the NFL since 2003?”

    1. Racism by whites
    2. Stereotype threat
    3. Lack of interest in football by whites
    4. White privilege causes whites to focus on the more prestigious and glamorous DL positions.
    5. Legacy of slavery
    6. Donald Trump

    Save answers 1, 2, 5, and 6 for other questions, like “Why did one high school in Budapest produce more great scientists in 20 years than all of subsaharan Africa over all of recorded history?” and “Why does Denmark with 6 million people have a larger economy than Bangladesh with 161 million people?”

    Excuse my ignorance, but when did subsaharan Africa ever produce a great scientist?

  176. @Corvinus
    "Understanding that adaptation of songs and poems is usually far from perfect, this is about as awkward as you can get."

    It's awkward to be on the white side? Since when?

    I thought you were on the side of ALL Americans. One more illusion shattered.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I thought you were on the side of ALL Americans. One more illusion shattered."

    I am on the side of humanity. When it comes to Americans, it's not awkward to be white, or black, or Hispanic, or Asian, or indigenous. It's who we are.
  177. @Anon
    I thought you were on the side of ALL Americans. One more illusion shattered.

    “I thought you were on the side of ALL Americans. One more illusion shattered.”

    I am on the side of humanity. When it comes to Americans, it’s not awkward to be white, or black, or Hispanic, or Asian, or indigenous. It’s who we are.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Do you think putting yourself on the "white side" (which implies there is a non-white side on which you are not) is supporting all Americans, let alone all humanity?
  178. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1204322471698001921

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  179. @Corvinus
    "I thought you were on the side of ALL Americans. One more illusion shattered."

    I am on the side of humanity. When it comes to Americans, it's not awkward to be white, or black, or Hispanic, or Asian, or indigenous. It's who we are.

    Do you think putting yourself on the “white side” (which implies there is a non-white side on which you are not) is supporting all Americans, let alone all humanity?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Do you think putting yourself on the “white side” (which implies there is a non-white side on which you are not) is supporting all Americans, let alone all humanity?"

    What part of "I'm not putting myself on the white side" do you not understand? I support the side of humanity, which encompasses Americans, non-Americans, white, black, Christian, non-Christian.

    Isn't that what God had intended?
  180. @Anon
    Do you think putting yourself on the "white side" (which implies there is a non-white side on which you are not) is supporting all Americans, let alone all humanity?

    “Do you think putting yourself on the “white side” (which implies there is a non-white side on which you are not) is supporting all Americans, let alone all humanity?”

    What part of “I’m not putting myself on the white side” do you not understand? I support the side of humanity, which encompasses Americans, non-Americans, white, black, Christian, non-Christian.

    Isn’t that what God had intended?

    • Replies: @Anon

    What part of “I’m not putting myself on the white side” do you not understand?
     
    The part where you said it.

    Don't make an about-face.
  181. @Corvinus
    "Do you think putting yourself on the “white side” (which implies there is a non-white side on which you are not) is supporting all Americans, let alone all humanity?"

    What part of "I'm not putting myself on the white side" do you not understand? I support the side of humanity, which encompasses Americans, non-Americans, white, black, Christian, non-Christian.

    Isn't that what God had intended?

    What part of “I’m not putting myself on the white side” do you not understand?

    The part where you said it.

    Don’t make an about-face.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The part where you said it."

    Right, the poem, which was putting the white side in the context of Alt Right philosophy. Of course, the white side, as well as the black side, or any side, takes a back seat when it comes to humanity. There is no about-face here. What side are you on? It's not awkward.

  182. @Anon

    What part of “I’m not putting myself on the white side” do you not understand?
     
    The part where you said it.

    Don't make an about-face.

    “The part where you said it.”

    Right, the poem, which was putting the white side in the context of Alt Right philosophy. Of course, the white side, as well as the black side, or any side, takes a back seat when it comes to humanity. There is no about-face here. What side are you on? It’s not awkward.

    • Replies: @Anon
    So you subscribe to the "white side", but only in "the context of Alt-Right philosophy"?

    But your philosophy defines your worldview. You can't subscribe to an idea in a philosophical context without it affecting your life in a more general sense.

    Anyway, it's good you are at least nominally open to considering other sides of the question.
  183. Anon[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    "The part where you said it."

    Right, the poem, which was putting the white side in the context of Alt Right philosophy. Of course, the white side, as well as the black side, or any side, takes a back seat when it comes to humanity. There is no about-face here. What side are you on? It's not awkward.

    So you subscribe to the “white side”, but only in “the context of Alt-Right philosophy”?

    But your philosophy defines your worldview. You can’t subscribe to an idea in a philosophical context without it affecting your life in a more general sense.

    Anyway, it’s good you are at least nominally open to considering other sides of the question.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "So you subscribe to the “white side”, but only in “the context of Alt-Right philosophy”?"

    You have difficulty comprehending. I subscribe to all sides. My poem was showing those whites who side with the Alt Right philosophy.

    "But your philosophy defines your worldview. You can’t subscribe to an idea in a philosophical context without it affecting your life in a more general sense."

    We have many philosophies, some of which may conflict as we seek to implement them in our lives.

    "Anyway, it’s good you are at least nominally open to considering other sides of the question."

    But the most important side is humanity. On you on board?
  184. @Anon
    So you subscribe to the "white side", but only in "the context of Alt-Right philosophy"?

    But your philosophy defines your worldview. You can't subscribe to an idea in a philosophical context without it affecting your life in a more general sense.

    Anyway, it's good you are at least nominally open to considering other sides of the question.

    “So you subscribe to the “white side”, but only in “the context of Alt-Right philosophy”?”

    You have difficulty comprehending. I subscribe to all sides. My poem was showing those whites who side with the Alt Right philosophy.

    “But your philosophy defines your worldview. You can’t subscribe to an idea in a philosophical context without it affecting your life in a more general sense.”

    We have many philosophies, some of which may conflict as we seek to implement them in our lives.

    “Anyway, it’s good you are at least nominally open to considering other sides of the question.”

    But the most important side is humanity. On you on board?

    • Replies: @Anon

    On you on board?
     
    Maybe, it's kind of unclear.

    We have many philosophies, some of which may conflict as we seek to implement them in our lives.
     
    But when your "Alt Right" philosophy, as you interpret it, engages in "conflict" the results are likely to be unpleasant. I suggest you abandon this particular line of thought, as you seem like a decent person otherwise.
  185. Anon[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    "So you subscribe to the “white side”, but only in “the context of Alt-Right philosophy”?"

    You have difficulty comprehending. I subscribe to all sides. My poem was showing those whites who side with the Alt Right philosophy.

    "But your philosophy defines your worldview. You can’t subscribe to an idea in a philosophical context without it affecting your life in a more general sense."

    We have many philosophies, some of which may conflict as we seek to implement them in our lives.

    "Anyway, it’s good you are at least nominally open to considering other sides of the question."

    But the most important side is humanity. On you on board?

    On you on board?

    Maybe, it’s kind of unclear.

    We have many philosophies, some of which may conflict as we seek to implement them in our lives.

    But when your “Alt Right” philosophy, as you interpret it, engages in “conflict” the results are likely to be unpleasant. I suggest you abandon this particular line of thought, as you seem like a decent person otherwise.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Maybe, it’s kind of unclear."

    Actually, it's crystal clear. Are you pro-humanity?

    "But when your “Alt Right” philosophy..."

    Again, it's NOT my Alt Right philosophy or my line of thought, it's those who embrace the Alt Right. It's one of many out there.
  186. @Anon

    On you on board?
     
    Maybe, it's kind of unclear.

    We have many philosophies, some of which may conflict as we seek to implement them in our lives.
     
    But when your "Alt Right" philosophy, as you interpret it, engages in "conflict" the results are likely to be unpleasant. I suggest you abandon this particular line of thought, as you seem like a decent person otherwise.

    “Maybe, it’s kind of unclear.”

    Actually, it’s crystal clear. Are you pro-humanity?

    “But when your “Alt Right” philosophy…”

    Again, it’s NOT my Alt Right philosophy or my line of thought, it’s those who embrace the Alt Right. It’s one of many out there.

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