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Affirmative Action for Women Has Gotten Flagrant in the National Academy of Science and the American Academy of Arts and Science
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From the National Bureau of Economic Research, a new paper by econ quasi-Nobelist David Card:

Gender Gaps at the Academies
David Card, Stefano DellaVigna, Patricia Funk & Nagore Iriberri

WORKING PAPER 30510
DOI 10.3386/w30510
ISSUE DATE September 2022

Historically, a large majority of the newly elected members of the National Academy of Science (NAS) and the American Academy of Arts and Science (AAAS) were men.

These are prestigious organizations for senior academics with impressive research track records of at least two decades in length.

Within the past two decades, however, that situation has changed, and in the last 3 years women made up about 40 percent of the new members in both academies. We build lists of active scholars from publications in the top journals in three fields – Psychology, Mathematics and Economics – and develop a series of models to compare changes in the probability of selection of women as members of the NAS and AAAS from the 1960s to today, controlling for publications and citations. In the early years of our sample, women were less likely to be selected as members than men with similar records. By the 1990s, the selection process at both academies was approximately gender-neutral, conditional on publications and citations. In the past 20 years, however, a positive preference for female members has emerged and strengthened in all three fields. Currently, women are 3-15 times more likely to be selected as members of the AAAS and NAS than men with similar publication and citation records. …

Another way to interpret the magnitudes for the most recent decade is to ask: if we were to inflate the numbers of publications and the numbers of citations of all female researchers by a certain percentage, how large would the boost have to be to fully eliminate the estimated female effect? In psychology the estimated boost to publications and citations for female researchers is 73 percent. In economics and mathematics the estimated boost is even larger, at 104 percent in economics and 245 percent in mathematics. One interpretation of this boost is that represents the adjustment needed to compensate for the additional difficulties that female candidates have had in publishing their work and getting cited, e.g., in psychology, a female scholar’s publications and citations are about 73 percent lower than would be expected for a male who has done similar work.

I could see an argument for admitting women who are mothers with less productivity — they are probably smarter than their CV would suggest — but of course that implies there should be no thumb on the scale for admitting women women are not mothers.

An alternative interpretation is that it reflects a preference of the academies to achieve higher diversity and inclusion with respect to the gender composition. We return to the interpretations of the findings in the conclusion. …

While these fields span a wide range of female representation, we find much in common in the patterns we estimate. Across all three fields, for the earliest period we study, 1960-1979, we find suggestive evidence that female researchers were, if anything, held to a higher bar than males. Indeed, in economics there were no female members of the NAS elected until 1989 and in mathematics there were no female members of the AAAS elected until 1984. This pattern, the “Matilda Effect” hypothesized by Rossiter (1993), is consistent with anecdotal evidence of unfair treatment of female researchers in this period. It is perhaps more surprising that the extent of this finding is similar for disciplines with very few female researchers like mathematics and economics, as well as for a discipline with a higher share of women like psychology.

In the next time period, 1980-1999, we again find a fairly similar pattern across the three fields. In this period, female researchers were generally more likely to be inducted into the AAAS and NAS conditional on publications and citations.

So these organizations have had affirmative action for women for over 40 years now. But during the Great Awokening it has gotten really flagrant, just like you’d imagine from reading all anti-male hate literature in mainstream media.

The gender differences are small in magnitude in some cases (e.g., in psychology) and fairly large in other cases (e.g., economics in the 1980s and mathematics in the 1990s). In the most recent decades, 2000-19, we find consistent evidence that female scholars in all three fields are more likely to be inducted into the AAAS and NAS than male scholars with similar records. The magnitudes of the gender gaps in the 2010-2019 period are especially large and imply that women are 3 or more times more likely to be made members of the two academies than males,
holding constant research productivity.

So far, the three hard science Nobel Prizes have best resisted the Spirit of the Age. They just announced the physics Nobel and it went to three white men, Alain Aspect, John Clauser and Anton Zeilinger, for work involving entangled photons that I’d never understand in a million years. The Nobel Prizes do have some brand equity to expend defending the principle of fairness.

 
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  1. 3 guys got Physics Nobel for something Shimony called “experimental metaphysics”. And I just mentioned John Stewart Bell. Talk about synchronicity….

    Three cheers.

  2. Another triumph for the man whose quips represent the Spirit Of The Age (2019, pg. 19): “The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination… The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.”

    However much Boston University added to Jack Dorsey’s $10 million, it was more than worth it.

    Women make up 60% of all U.S. college students. So the Academies are still at the beginning of their Journeys to Equity.

    • Replies: @Richard B
    @ic1000


    So the Academies are still at the beginning of their Journeys to Equity.
     
    But near the end of their Journey to Cultural Impoverishment and Societal Collapse.

    Happily, this will more than sabotage their journey to equity. So there's that.

    No surprise there though, since the Woke university today, a monument to intellectual backwardness, doesn't require them to even answer important questions and solve problems, let alone engage in the far more difficult task of asking questions and posing problems. So they lack the required habit of mind to sustain their evil little empire and the ill-gotten booty that came with it.

    No wonder they can't shut up about White Man Bad (as if that'll make them smart). Then again, being a mob of crazy dumbsh*ts they're not very subtle at covering their own tracks. Too late now that anyone who cares to look, or can bare to look, can see.

  3. Speaking of Science…. Renowned NYU Organic Chemistry Professor Canned Because Students Couldn’t Hack It:

    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

    After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    …The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

    …Many students were having other problems. Kent Kirshenbaum, another chemistry professor at N.Y.U., said he discovered cheating during online tests.

    When he pushed students’ grades down, noting the egregious misconduct, he said they protested that “they were not given grades that would allow them to get into medical school.”

    …In August, Dr. Jones received a short note from Gregory Gabadadze, dean for science, terminating his contract. Dr. Jones’s performance, he wrote, “did not rise to the standards we require from our teaching faculty.”

    https://dnyuz.com/2022/10/03/at-n-y-u-students-were-failing-organic-chemistry-who-was-to-blame/

    I’ll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn’t holding them back through sexism and systemic racism…

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @dearieme
    @Dr. X

    he discovered cheating during online tests.

    O/L tests are madness: if you don't cheat you're only cheating yourself because everyone else will be cheating. That's why old-fashioned exams are far better.

    Tell me, how do students cheat on practical exams? Send a ringer to do them?

    , @Redneck farmer
    @Dr. X

    But when have physicians ever had to solve a problem quickly?

    Replies: @Sidewalk Meanderings

    , @George
    @Dr. X

    A possibility is the pandemic cut off the global supply of students, with a reduced talent pool NYU admitted less spectacular students.

    NYC, and many places in the US, are less desirable. NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated.

    Foreign students may have less resources available to afford an NYU education.

    Foreign and domestic students may have over the past 2-3 years of pandemic and now Ukraine war craziness lost the habit of NYU education. Top tier students might have just figured out NYU was too expensive and complicated and found alternatives.

    Is it possible the qualifications for medical school are no longer relevant? The pandemic revealed that doctors really work for the CDC FDA, and the CDC FDA mostly make all the complicated decisions, so why do doctors need to demonstrate such a high level Organic Chemistry ability when they just need to understand what the vocabulary and terms mean.

    In summary, NYU has to deal with a smaller pool of talent so there are fewer extreme right hand of the bell curve students.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @That Would Be Telling, @President Xi

    , @That Would Be Telling
    @Dr. X

    A lot of what you're saying is correct, but I see a huge warning sign in what you quoted, see the added emphasis:


    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.
     
    That's of course utter garbage, like in so many other STEM fields, or just reading using phonics, the "drill and kill" rote memorization that's been effectively attacked since 1930 (publication of the first Dick and Jane and Their Running Dog Spot basal reader) is absolutely essential to mastering the field, and also in weeding out people who don't have what it takes to become a doctor (both also requires shape rotation ability).

    That said, it appears for one reason or another the plot was lost, this is the professor using his own method and grading on that seeing students fail. I note admissions gimmicking could also be a factor. In general, while a good lecturer helps a lot, organic chemistry still just requires a lot of hard work, hitting a good textbook, doing your problem sets, and of course being able to perform in an exam without cheating. There's no royal road to it any more than to having the foundational geometry skills and knowledge that are also required.

    Replies: @Wilkey

    , @Paleo Liberal
    @Dr. X

    NYU has been a pre-med factory for many decades. Even in the days when it was a third or fourth or fifth tier school it was still a pre-med factory. NYU has had a dean of pre-meds for many decades. In the old days I knew several of the gentlemen who had that position.

    They start with about 600-700 freshman pre-meds every year. That is whittled down to about 350 after the first year, which includes intro chemistry. At least 1/3 of those are weeded out in first semester organic. Many of the remaining ones are weeded out in second semester organic. Still others are weeded out in their junior and senior year, perhaps by P Chem or biochem or some advanced bio or physics class.

    But the remaining pre-meds generally do very well in med school applications. That is why so many pre-meds go to NYU. They all think they will be one of the remaining students, when in fact they probably won’t. A certain number of students would have been better off going to State U, where they would still be one of the better students.

    That has been the dance for decades. Weed out too few and NYU doesn’t have the shining percentage of acceptances. Weed out too many and students who normally would have gotten into med school don’t get a chance, which means fewer total admissions.

    Somehow the balance was thrown off. Was it the fault of the professor, or the students, or COVID restrictions? Or some combination of all three?

    Well, the school can’t fire COVID. The school doesn’t want to destroy all hopes for their students. An adjunct professor can be fired.

    And this is something I saw more than I wanted to when I was in academia in the 1980s and 1990s. Students unhappy about their grades can get adjunct or new, non-tenured professors fired. Especially pre-med students.

    Replies: @Shale boi

    , @AnotherDad
    @Dr. X



    About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    …The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

     

    I’ll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn’t holding them back through sexism and systemic racism…
     
    Maybe that's it. But this has the smell of ... "smart"phone generation.

    Organic really is an "apply butt to chair" class.
  4. I could see an argument for admitting women who are mothers with less productivity — they are probably smarter than their CV would suggest — but of course that implies there should be no thumb on the scale for admitting women women are not mothers.

    Exactly my thoughts.

    By the way, Feynman ditched NAS. He was, as in most other cases, right.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Bardon Kaldian

    First you have to define the purpose of giving out these prestigious designations. Is it to recognize one's existing body of work and actual contribution to the field -- sort of like a lifetime achievement award? Or, is it supposed to be a list of all-stars who are currently at the top of their game and are thus deemed to be the most likely to contribute going forward?

    Either way, Steve's idea of giving bonus points for motherhood doesn't make any sense. Your quality and quantity of work either demonstrates that you meet the standard or it doesn't. What you've been up to in the rest of your life has nothing to do with it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  5. I’m guessing Jeffrey Sachs didn’t get his job through affirmative action. It’s so good to hear men speak simple, obvious truths. So shameful when they play dumb.

    Here he is on Nordstrom. He’s saying what everyone already knows:

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Sachs is great. Politically, he's a peacenik liberal who does most of his work on development economics and reducing world poverty. But he's own of those people who is totally dedicated to intellectual honesty and gives zero f***s about the prevailing narrative. You can also find clips of him going off on how Covid was obviously cooked up in the Wuhan lab, duh.

    Replies: @Thomm, @Loyalty Over IQ Worship, @Bill Jones

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Here is an analysis by a guy who seems to have a long obsession with analyzing flight paths of US military aircraft.

    His analysis sounds suggestive to me: anybody known anything about this?

    Replies: @Loyalty Over IQ Worship, @Mark G.

  6. Not so many years from now, a solitary white man will be standing in the dock undergoing prosecution for heresy. He will state with certainty that “Apples grow on trees,” and a whooping, galloping roar will emanate from the frantic crowd at his back. The BIPOC LGBTXYZ judges will gesticulate and howl, pronouncing his immediate execution and that’s when we’ll know we’ve reached the nadir of Western Civilization. Back to bones and stones we go.

    Our historical echo of ‘And yet it moves’ will be sadly ironic. But given the current state of affairs and our present slide into mysticism, I can definitely see this happening.

  7. [1] “One interpretation of this boost is that represents the adjustment needed to compensate for the additional difficulties that female candidates have had in publishing their work and getting cited”:
    What is the grammatical subject of the verb “represents”? Is this the copying of a misprint from the original source? I could not find this wording in the cited work
    https://www.nber.org/papers/w30510#fromrss

    [2] “The Nobel Prizes do have some brand equity to expend defending the principle of fairness.”
    What does this mean?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_equity
    explains that a widely known brand is worth more commercially than an obscure brand, but what does it mean to “expend” brand equity?

    • Replies: @David Jones
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    As regards the Nobel Prize organisation, it mean that they have enough prestige to stick to their ethos even if they lose some of it by not going along with the zeitgeist.

  8. Science, free speech, adversarial trials, secure property rights and the free market are the social inventions that have created the material progress of the last 3 centuries but they are unacceptable in the coming idiocracy.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  9. Hidden Figures travelled 6 million miles in heel y’all

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar

    And backwards!

  10. Anon[191] • Disclaimer says:

    I could see an argument for admitting women who are mothers with less productivity — they are probably smarter than their CV would suggest.

    Huh? Being smart isn’t the metric. Otherwise they could admit female graduates of Harvard Law, who had they instead become scientists might have accomplished a lot.

    Smarts plus long term effort and dedication, plus luck, resulting in actual documented and verified accomplishments greater than most of your colleagues in the field. That is the metric.

    • Replies: @TG
    @Anon

    Agreed! The world is full of smart under-achievers...

    Here is this from Wikipedia:

    "Based on the historical findings of the Terman study and on biographical examples such as Richard Feynman, who had a self-reported IQ of 125 and went on to win the Nobel Prize in physics and become widely known as a genius,[48][49] the current view of psychologists and other scholars of genius is that a minimum level of IQ (approximately 125) is necessary for genius but not sufficient, and must be combined with personality characteristics such as drive and persistence, plus the necessary opportunities for talent development.[50][51][52]"

  11. I could see an argument for admitting women who are mothers with less productivity — they are probably smarter than their CV would suggest — but of course that implies there should be no thumb on the scale for admitting women women are not mothers.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if women who are mothers actually got the short end of the stick in favor of childless cat lady scientists. Almost all affirmative action programs have poster children that they ostensibly favor, but in reality someone else is leveraging their street cred for careerist purposes. AA holds out Cordarelle from the hood as someone who needs a leg up but actually enrolls an Igbo kid with solid middle class background, while kicking Cordarelle to the curb unless he can run a 4.4 40. We’re supposed to be helping Jose from the barrio but actually giving AOC a thumb on the scale. Etc. It’s BS turtles all the way down.

  12. stillCARealist [AKA "ForeverCARealist"] says:

    No, it’s likely that these stupid shut downs and zoom classes messed with the students who need the most direct, spell-it-out, in the flesh instruction.

    On top of the generation who is ruined by video games and social media, we took away the real teaching and accountability and replaced it with another stupid screen.

    The whole country, maybe the whole world, was cheating during those zoom classes. I got that first-hand from the numerous high school students I know during those two years, 2020/21. And none of them learned really anything. My daughter did her first year of college through zoom and it was far inferior to what she experienced when they came back to campus. Fortunately it was a lot cheaper.

    Organic chemistry is hard, and should be, no doubt, but most of those NYU kids will never go to medical school anyway. Let those who can gain the confidence of learning it do so, and quickly signal to those who can’t to find a different track. Calculus does the same thing for most students, and there’s no shame in discovering you aren’t cut out for that complexity.

    But for reality’s sake, get the kids back in the flesh and let the recorded lectures be a supplement, not a replacement.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @stillCARealist

    I have heard from students at several medical schools that recorded lectures are pretty much standard these days. The students prefer them to live lectures because the students can pause and replay the lectures. A conscientious student can get more out of the recorded lecture than a live one. The “small sessions “ (what are called recitation sections in many undergraduate schools) are live, since this is where questions are asked and problems worked out.

    So getting pre-meds used to recorded lectures may be a good thing. For those who can handle it.

  13. “The Nobel Prizes do have some brand equity to expend defending the principle of fairness.”

    Yup — and in a decade tops, they’ll be just as Woke as all the others. Virtually every serious publication and award has fallen, Nobel is just holding on, hoping the Peace Prize will save it.

    Memo: it won’t.

    • Agree: dearieme
    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Celt Darnell

    "Virtually every serious publication and award has fallen, Nobel is just holding on, hoping the Peace Prize will save it."


    You mean this Peace Prize?

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PnLqoRtUAVg&feature=share&si=EMSIkaIECMiOmarE6JChQQ

  14. I suspect that thumb-on-scale by NAS and AAAS are tips of icebergs. The icebergs would be term papers, and comments made in class. The former would be easy to mask. The latter would be hard to mask, but I’ll bet teachers and professors do it anyway. In fairness to thumb-on-scale, I will suggest that for years, guys on the prowl hoping to score have known to say “Wow, that’s a great interpretation of the movie we just saw.”

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @SafeNow

    It is almost automatic if you see an attractive woman in a technical field that guys did nearly all their college homework and they are stunted in the brain because of this. In thirty years I have seen one exception to this. She turned 30 and became a stay home mom.

    A couple of these bimbos are now corporate VP's.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @The Wild Geese Howard

  15. @Dr. X
    Speaking of Science.... Renowned NYU Organic Chemistry Professor Canned Because Students Couldn't Hack It:

    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

    After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    ...The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

    ...Many students were having other problems. Kent Kirshenbaum, another chemistry professor at N.Y.U., said he discovered cheating during online tests.

    When he pushed students’ grades down, noting the egregious misconduct, he said they protested that “they were not given grades that would allow them to get into medical school.”

    ...In August, Dr. Jones received a short note from Gregory Gabadadze, dean for science, terminating his contract. Dr. Jones’s performance, he wrote, “did not rise to the standards we require from our teaching faculty.”
     

    https://dnyuz.com/2022/10/03/at-n-y-u-students-were-failing-organic-chemistry-who-was-to-blame/

    I'll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn't holding them back through sexism and systemic racism...

    Replies: @dearieme, @Redneck farmer, @George, @That Would Be Telling, @Paleo Liberal, @AnotherDad

    he discovered cheating during online tests.

    O/L tests are madness: if you don’t cheat you’re only cheating yourself because everyone else will be cheating. That’s why old-fashioned exams are far better.

    Tell me, how do students cheat on practical exams? Send a ringer to do them?

  16. “These are prestigious organizations…”

    Shouldn’t that be “formerly prestigious”?

  17. @SafeNow
    I suspect that thumb-on-scale by NAS and AAAS are tips of icebergs. The icebergs would be term papers, and comments made in class. The former would be easy to mask. The latter would be hard to mask, but I’ll bet teachers and professors do it anyway. In fairness to thumb-on-scale, I will suggest that for years, guys on the prowl hoping to score have known to say “Wow, that’s a great interpretation of the movie we just saw.”

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    It is almost automatic if you see an attractive woman in a technical field that guys did nearly all their college homework and they are stunted in the brain because of this. In thirty years I have seen one exception to this. She turned 30 and became a stay home mom.

    A couple of these bimbos are now corporate VP’s.

    • Replies: @Recently Based
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    This isn't my experience at all. (If you consider software a technical field)

    If anything, I've observed a mild positive correlation between hotness and programming talent in women.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    A couple of these bimbos are now corporate VP’s.
     
    I know one in these parts that made director in her early 30s.

    As a new college hire with an EE degree she worked with friends of mine.

    She blew off engineering testing, reporting, and analysis work for years.

  18. Nowadays the thumb is heavy, and unapologetic. In my large, bureaucratic place of work, women are promoted at twice the rate of men in my specific area, which has been male-dominated forever. The internal statistics not only show this, but are boasted about – “we promoted women at double the rate of men!” It was more subtle only five years ago. Apparently the time for revenge is now.

  19. I don’t expect this post to get much traction from the controlled, milquetoast simps (the majority of Steve’s audience) who are fine with AA for white women because muh daughter!

    And your wife might get mad at you if you dared to speak out against this obvious injustice.

    But if blacks are benefiting from AA, you have the fury of a thousand suns.

    Bunch of Ned Flanders pussies.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Blodgie


    I don’t expect this post to get much traction from the controlled, milquetoast simps (the majority of Steve’s audience) who are fine with AA for white women
     
    You are somewhat on the right track because it is controlled simps -- not here but those in charge of our crucial businesses, institutions and scientific disciplines -- who are busily caving in rather than dare to withstand the high-pitched screeching for "inclusion."

    These are physical and theoretical structures that have been painstakingly built, sometimes over centuries, almost exclusively by men, but now they are carelessly handing over the keys

    I'll say it again -- I've interviewed some brilliant and accomplished females in science and other fields. But those fields, from the established core knowledge down to the equipment they use and the very building they work in -- are there thanks to men.

    , @Bill Jones
    @Blodgie

    Buy according to The Woman of Unz, all the Men of Unz are rabid misogynists!

    You can't both be right.

  20. @Dr. X
    Speaking of Science.... Renowned NYU Organic Chemistry Professor Canned Because Students Couldn't Hack It:

    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

    After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    ...The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

    ...Many students were having other problems. Kent Kirshenbaum, another chemistry professor at N.Y.U., said he discovered cheating during online tests.

    When he pushed students’ grades down, noting the egregious misconduct, he said they protested that “they were not given grades that would allow them to get into medical school.”

    ...In August, Dr. Jones received a short note from Gregory Gabadadze, dean for science, terminating his contract. Dr. Jones’s performance, he wrote, “did not rise to the standards we require from our teaching faculty.”
     

    https://dnyuz.com/2022/10/03/at-n-y-u-students-were-failing-organic-chemistry-who-was-to-blame/

    I'll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn't holding them back through sexism and systemic racism...

    Replies: @dearieme, @Redneck farmer, @George, @That Would Be Telling, @Paleo Liberal, @AnotherDad

    But when have physicians ever had to solve a problem quickly?

    • Replies: @Sidewalk Meanderings
    @Redneck farmer

    When they work in the emergency room.

  21. @Dr. X
    Speaking of Science.... Renowned NYU Organic Chemistry Professor Canned Because Students Couldn't Hack It:

    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

    After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    ...The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

    ...Many students were having other problems. Kent Kirshenbaum, another chemistry professor at N.Y.U., said he discovered cheating during online tests.

    When he pushed students’ grades down, noting the egregious misconduct, he said they protested that “they were not given grades that would allow them to get into medical school.”

    ...In August, Dr. Jones received a short note from Gregory Gabadadze, dean for science, terminating his contract. Dr. Jones’s performance, he wrote, “did not rise to the standards we require from our teaching faculty.”
     

    https://dnyuz.com/2022/10/03/at-n-y-u-students-were-failing-organic-chemistry-who-was-to-blame/

    I'll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn't holding them back through sexism and systemic racism...

    Replies: @dearieme, @Redneck farmer, @George, @That Would Be Telling, @Paleo Liberal, @AnotherDad

    A possibility is the pandemic cut off the global supply of students, with a reduced talent pool NYU admitted less spectacular students.

    NYC, and many places in the US, are less desirable. NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated.

    Foreign students may have less resources available to afford an NYU education.

    Foreign and domestic students may have over the past 2-3 years of pandemic and now Ukraine war craziness lost the habit of NYU education. Top tier students might have just figured out NYU was too expensive and complicated and found alternatives.

    Is it possible the qualifications for medical school are no longer relevant? The pandemic revealed that doctors really work for the CDC FDA, and the CDC FDA mostly make all the complicated decisions, so why do doctors need to demonstrate such a high level Organic Chemistry ability when they just need to understand what the vocabulary and terms mean.

    In summary, NYU has to deal with a smaller pool of talent so there are fewer extreme right hand of the bell curve students.

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @George

    "NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated."

    NYU is a relatively cheap way for upper middle class kids to figure out if they really like NYC or not. NYU is in Greenwich Village, which is about as great as New York City can get for 20-year-olds.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Reg Cæsar

    , @That Would Be Telling
    @George


    Is it possible the qualifications for medical school are no longer relevant? The pandemic revealed that doctors really work for the CDC FDA, and the CDC FDA mostly make all the complicated decisions....
     
    Not in the least when it comes to surgery, radiology (taking and interpreting images), radiothearpy, lots of anatomy dependent diagnostics, and I'm sure I'm leaving out a lot. And let me quote @Redneck farmer above:

    But when have physicians ever had to solve a problem quickly?
     
    When stabilizing a trauma patient in his "Golden Hour" no surgeon has any time to consult an anatomy book. Good "shape rotation" and memory of anatomy is an absolute requirement, although there's enough variation in the latter from those idealized diagrams as any of us who's dissected an animal can attest that only real world experience will suffice for the real thing.
    , @President Xi
    @George

    Ok Dr. Lexus.

  22. @Dr. X
    Speaking of Science.... Renowned NYU Organic Chemistry Professor Canned Because Students Couldn't Hack It:

    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

    After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    ...The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

    ...Many students were having other problems. Kent Kirshenbaum, another chemistry professor at N.Y.U., said he discovered cheating during online tests.

    When he pushed students’ grades down, noting the egregious misconduct, he said they protested that “they were not given grades that would allow them to get into medical school.”

    ...In August, Dr. Jones received a short note from Gregory Gabadadze, dean for science, terminating his contract. Dr. Jones’s performance, he wrote, “did not rise to the standards we require from our teaching faculty.”
     

    https://dnyuz.com/2022/10/03/at-n-y-u-students-were-failing-organic-chemistry-who-was-to-blame/

    I'll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn't holding them back through sexism and systemic racism...

    Replies: @dearieme, @Redneck farmer, @George, @That Would Be Telling, @Paleo Liberal, @AnotherDad

    A lot of what you’re saying is correct, but I see a huge warning sign in what you quoted, see the added emphasis:

    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

    That’s of course utter garbage, like in so many other STEM fields, or just reading using phonics, the “drill and kill” rote memorization that’s been effectively attacked since 1930 (publication of the first Dick and Jane and Their Running Dog Spot basal reader) is absolutely essential to mastering the field, and also in weeding out people who don’t have what it takes to become a doctor (both also requires shape rotation ability).

    That said, it appears for one reason or another the plot was lost, this is the professor using his own method and grading on that seeing students fail. I note admissions gimmicking could also be a factor. In general, while a good lecturer helps a lot, organic chemistry still just requires a lot of hard work, hitting a good textbook, doing your problem sets, and of course being able to perform in an exam without cheating. There’s no royal road to it any more than to having the foundational geometry skills and knowledge that are also required.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @That Would Be Telling


    That’s of course utter garbage, like in so many other STEM fields, or just reading using phonics, the “drill and kill” rote memorization that’s been effectively attacked since 1930 (publication of the first Dick and Jane and Their Running Dog Spot basal reader) is absolutely essential to mastering the field
     
    Rote memorization of basic knowledge frees up your mind to work on higher order problems. Life without it would be like having to consciously think to breathe.
  23. Michigan has released public SAT scores. They mandated all public students in the state to take the SAT last year.

    Seems to match your observation about stratospheric Asian scores running away from everyone.

    Full report here:

    https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2022-michigan-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Thulean Friend

    Thanks.

    , @Paleo Liberal
    @Thulean Friend

    Notice that multi racial is the second highest category.

    Multi racial can be a mix of any of these ethnic groups. But. A certain number of multi racial kids are the children of a high performing white guy and a smart Asian lady.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

  24. Anon[222] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: California Gov. Gavin Newsom signs bill decriminalizing jaywalking.

    I suppose the idea is, “Vote for me! Me Big Democrat! I give you great gifts. I let you jaywalk!”

    If I were someone who drove a lot, I’d be irate, since this makes the roads more dangerous. No one wants some big dumb jogger flying through their windshield. This will end up with a lot of more Newsom’s black constituents getting killed by drivers. The whole reason jaywalking laws exist is to protect pedestrians from cars. I can just see blacks staggering away from a bar at night and getting run over. Black skin means you’re not as visible in shade or at night as a white person is.

    https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxnews.com/us/california-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16648958281963&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fus%2Fcalifornia-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Anon


    Black skin means you’re not as visible in shade or at night as a white person is.
     
    Moonlight is racist?
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    The whole reason jaywalking laws exist is to protect pedestrians from cars.
     
    Or you could hold drivers to higher standards, as in other countries. Visitors are always surprised to learn that "jaywalking" is a crime here, when it isn't one at home. Or even a word.

    OxfordLanguages-via-Google's-English-dictionary:


    jay·walk
    /ˈjāˌwôk/
    verb NORTH AMERICAN
     
    These laws, along with mandatory-to-carry state-issued ID cards and a stratospheric minimum age for alcohol purchase-- go on, try buying a Bud Light Sam Adams for a 20½-year-old reservist who left his lower leg in the Hindu Kush-- are among the petty authoritarianisms our "freedom machines" result in.

    Actually,


    The term "jay" once referred to a foolish rural person who cannot navigate city streets.

    https://www.nolo.com/dictionary/jaywalking-term.html
     

    In other words, it's an insult like "flyover country".
    , @anonymous
    @Anon

    I’m the only person I know who’s received two jaywalking tickets. The first was in Oakland at 6:00 a.m. on a Saturday in 1976, the other on Sunset Blvd. on a weekday afternoon in 1987. Both cycle cops. I almost got a third about ten years ago, a step off the Berkeley campus on a football Saturday, but the black lady cop, 5’2” 160, let me off with a hysterical tongue-lashing.

    In any event, this is obviously in the same vein as no longer pulling over cars for inoperative tail lights or expired reg., but somehow I can’t believe cops have been issuing many jaywalking tickets to blacks.

    , @Quidnunc
    @Anon

    Decriminalization is bad for another reason. When police notice blacks stepping into stopped traffic to converse with auto occupants, they suspect that the blacks are selling drugs but can’t immediately prove it. So the police arrest the blacks for jaywalking while they investigate further. Now these strolls into traffic will be difficult to stop.

  25. @Thulean Friend
    Michigan has released public SAT scores. They mandated all public students in the state to take the SAT last year.

    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjnNO49STWTo23VcJwaxAMdsWsJP-Hi9LSMwNmSyD3alXLR58uHN3w6p6SoYkl85eBbydgXYPAEZIY-8OhYngNbb67BtV0xkp4kQA63yTV85mXrmGU4BREwLZxm3r2KEAt5fM5qXBFC5DWphh0Q6t3noxSyhOohaeVhRiMtnpLrdA-4--nxtw/s2190/Screenshot%202022-10-04%208.36.22%20AM.png


    Seems to match your observation about stratospheric Asian scores running away from everyone.

    Full report here:

    https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2022-michigan-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Paleo Liberal

    Thanks.

  26. @Dr. X
    Speaking of Science.... Renowned NYU Organic Chemistry Professor Canned Because Students Couldn't Hack It:

    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

    After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    ...The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

    ...Many students were having other problems. Kent Kirshenbaum, another chemistry professor at N.Y.U., said he discovered cheating during online tests.

    When he pushed students’ grades down, noting the egregious misconduct, he said they protested that “they were not given grades that would allow them to get into medical school.”

    ...In August, Dr. Jones received a short note from Gregory Gabadadze, dean for science, terminating his contract. Dr. Jones’s performance, he wrote, “did not rise to the standards we require from our teaching faculty.”
     

    https://dnyuz.com/2022/10/03/at-n-y-u-students-were-failing-organic-chemistry-who-was-to-blame/

    I'll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn't holding them back through sexism and systemic racism...

    Replies: @dearieme, @Redneck farmer, @George, @That Would Be Telling, @Paleo Liberal, @AnotherDad

    NYU has been a pre-med factory for many decades. Even in the days when it was a third or fourth or fifth tier school it was still a pre-med factory. NYU has had a dean of pre-meds for many decades. In the old days I knew several of the gentlemen who had that position.

    They start with about 600-700 freshman pre-meds every year. That is whittled down to about 350 after the first year, which includes intro chemistry. At least 1/3 of those are weeded out in first semester organic. Many of the remaining ones are weeded out in second semester organic. Still others are weeded out in their junior and senior year, perhaps by P Chem or biochem or some advanced bio or physics class.

    But the remaining pre-meds generally do very well in med school applications. That is why so many pre-meds go to NYU. They all think they will be one of the remaining students, when in fact they probably won’t. A certain number of students would have been better off going to State U, where they would still be one of the better students.

    That has been the dance for decades. Weed out too few and NYU doesn’t have the shining percentage of acceptances. Weed out too many and students who normally would have gotten into med school don’t get a chance, which means fewer total admissions.

    Somehow the balance was thrown off. Was it the fault of the professor, or the students, or COVID restrictions? Or some combination of all three?

    Well, the school can’t fire COVID. The school doesn’t want to destroy all hopes for their students. An adjunct professor can be fired.

    And this is something I saw more than I wanted to when I was in academia in the 1980s and 1990s. Students unhappy about their grades can get adjunct or new, non-tenured professors fired. Especially pre-med students.

    • Replies: @Shale boi
    @Paleo Liberal

    Premeds don't take p-chem.

    Biochem is relatively descriptive. Yes, there's chemicals in there, but a lot of it is a typical descriptive life science with essay question testss that you have to write long hand-cramping passages on.

    Replies: @John Johnson

  27. @George
    @Dr. X

    A possibility is the pandemic cut off the global supply of students, with a reduced talent pool NYU admitted less spectacular students.

    NYC, and many places in the US, are less desirable. NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated.

    Foreign students may have less resources available to afford an NYU education.

    Foreign and domestic students may have over the past 2-3 years of pandemic and now Ukraine war craziness lost the habit of NYU education. Top tier students might have just figured out NYU was too expensive and complicated and found alternatives.

    Is it possible the qualifications for medical school are no longer relevant? The pandemic revealed that doctors really work for the CDC FDA, and the CDC FDA mostly make all the complicated decisions, so why do doctors need to demonstrate such a high level Organic Chemistry ability when they just need to understand what the vocabulary and terms mean.

    In summary, NYU has to deal with a smaller pool of talent so there are fewer extreme right hand of the bell curve students.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @That Would Be Telling, @President Xi

    “NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated.”

    NYU is a relatively cheap way for upper middle class kids to figure out if they really like NYC or not. NYU is in Greenwich Village, which is about as great as New York City can get for 20-year-olds.

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Steve Sailer

    I remember a Columbia student who always complained that the NYU students didn’t deserve the Village while he had to be in Morningside Heights.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Jim Don Bob

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    NYU is a relatively cheap way
     
    NYU, like Penn, is a private institution. Don't let the name fool you.

    It costs $76,614 to go to NYU—but here’s how much students actually pay

    It apparently fools many. Google "NUY tuition" and the top hits are variations of the question "how much does it cost to go to NYU for out-of-state..." The same as for in-state!

    My uncle taught at a state college in Michigan, and he was quite surprised when, late in his long career, I told him this. "[State] U." or "U. of [State]" are assumed to be state institutions, and flagship at that. This is true of 47 states.

    New Jersey is the other exception, the only state without an eponymous university. The old College of New Jersey today goes by "Princeton".

    State schools are a Southern invention. In the Northeast, they were Jonathans-come-lately.

    Are Ohio State and Penn State the only flagships with "State" in their titles? Ohio U has become an afterthought, like Bowling Green or Miami.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Known Fact

  28. @Thulean Friend
    Michigan has released public SAT scores. They mandated all public students in the state to take the SAT last year.

    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjnNO49STWTo23VcJwaxAMdsWsJP-Hi9LSMwNmSyD3alXLR58uHN3w6p6SoYkl85eBbydgXYPAEZIY-8OhYngNbb67BtV0xkp4kQA63yTV85mXrmGU4BREwLZxm3r2KEAt5fM5qXBFC5DWphh0Q6t3noxSyhOohaeVhRiMtnpLrdA-4--nxtw/s2190/Screenshot%202022-10-04%208.36.22%20AM.png


    Seems to match your observation about stratospheric Asian scores running away from everyone.

    Full report here:

    https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2022-michigan-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Paleo Liberal

    Notice that multi racial is the second highest category.

    Multi racial can be a mix of any of these ethnic groups. But. A certain number of multi racial kids are the children of a high performing white guy and a smart Asian lady.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Paleo Liberal

    A very high certain number, like virtually all of the high-scoring, "mixed" testees.

  29. @Steve Sailer
    @George

    "NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated."

    NYU is a relatively cheap way for upper middle class kids to figure out if they really like NYC or not. NYU is in Greenwich Village, which is about as great as New York City can get for 20-year-olds.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Reg Cæsar

    I remember a Columbia student who always complained that the NYU students didn’t deserve the Village while he had to be in Morningside Heights.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Paleo Liberal

    I remember a piece by a New Republic editor from around 1986 that read in part, “California is too good for Californians.” Might explain a lot.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Paleo Liberal

    I wish I'd said that. I had friends at NYU. I'd go downtown and we'd get high and wander around Greenwich Village which is one of the nicest parts of NYC. Also not as many muggers as Morningside Heights.

  30. @Dr. X
    Speaking of Science.... Renowned NYU Organic Chemistry Professor Canned Because Students Couldn't Hack It:

    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

    After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    ...The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

    ...Many students were having other problems. Kent Kirshenbaum, another chemistry professor at N.Y.U., said he discovered cheating during online tests.

    When he pushed students’ grades down, noting the egregious misconduct, he said they protested that “they were not given grades that would allow them to get into medical school.”

    ...In August, Dr. Jones received a short note from Gregory Gabadadze, dean for science, terminating his contract. Dr. Jones’s performance, he wrote, “did not rise to the standards we require from our teaching faculty.”
     

    https://dnyuz.com/2022/10/03/at-n-y-u-students-were-failing-organic-chemistry-who-was-to-blame/

    I'll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn't holding them back through sexism and systemic racism...

    Replies: @dearieme, @Redneck farmer, @George, @That Would Be Telling, @Paleo Liberal, @AnotherDad

    About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.

    …The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

    After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

    I’ll bet money a fair number of the complainers have been indoctrinated since birth with the fallacy that womyn and black grrls would all be highly paid doctors and rocket scientists if only the evil white male wasn’t holding them back through sexism and systemic racism…

    Maybe that’s it. But this has the smell of … “smart”phone generation.

    Organic really is an “apply butt to chair” class.

  31. Affirmative action for Women is so 1980’s.
    Let’s get into the teens: America’s first (known) Trans Traitor:

  32. One question for a society that insists that women prepare for careers as well as men: To what extent will women’s higher education be wasted — from society’s point of view — if they drop out of the work force, fully or partly, in order to be with their eventual children? Educating doctors, for example, is amazingly expensive, and admission to medical school is extremely limited. Are there studies that look at who retires early, who chooses part-time work etc.? Is the investment in female doctors being rewarded? Or does it appear upon examination like a vanity project?

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Tono-Bungay

    A first year med student I know told me that 2/3 of the first year students at her med school are female.

    This was a mid-range med school, so this is probably a huge trend.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling

    , @puttheforkdown
    @Tono-Bungay

    Sure - the Japanese were doing it (discriminating against women in admissions to medical school) for precisely that reason: women tend to drop out of practice in their late 30's because, uh... they're WOMEN, and don't have the same grit, tenacity, gumption, what have you as males. They'd rather shack up and let hubby take care of the breadwinning after all. All was well and good on the eastern front until the outrage machine made the wise Nipponese walk it back.

    Ah well. Why not waste a decade + of resources on the changeable, lazy sex so they can wash out and let that prestigious MD collect dust? It'd be sexist not to!

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/world/asia/japan-medical-school-test-scores-women.html

    , @Graveldips
    @Tono-Bungay

    I have read that the return on investment for the average female MD is about 2/3 of a man's ROI. Fewer hours per week, fewer years on the job.

  33. @George
    @Dr. X

    A possibility is the pandemic cut off the global supply of students, with a reduced talent pool NYU admitted less spectacular students.

    NYC, and many places in the US, are less desirable. NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated.

    Foreign students may have less resources available to afford an NYU education.

    Foreign and domestic students may have over the past 2-3 years of pandemic and now Ukraine war craziness lost the habit of NYU education. Top tier students might have just figured out NYU was too expensive and complicated and found alternatives.

    Is it possible the qualifications for medical school are no longer relevant? The pandemic revealed that doctors really work for the CDC FDA, and the CDC FDA mostly make all the complicated decisions, so why do doctors need to demonstrate such a high level Organic Chemistry ability when they just need to understand what the vocabulary and terms mean.

    In summary, NYU has to deal with a smaller pool of talent so there are fewer extreme right hand of the bell curve students.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @That Would Be Telling, @President Xi

    Is it possible the qualifications for medical school are no longer relevant? The pandemic revealed that doctors really work for the CDC FDA, and the CDC FDA mostly make all the complicated decisions….

    Not in the least when it comes to surgery, radiology (taking and interpreting images), radiothearpy, lots of anatomy dependent diagnostics, and I’m sure I’m leaving out a lot. And let me quote above:

    But when have physicians ever had to solve a problem quickly?

    When stabilizing a trauma patient in his “Golden Hour” no surgeon has any time to consult an anatomy book. Good “shape rotation” and memory of anatomy is an absolute requirement, although there’s enough variation in the latter from those idealized diagrams as any of us who’s dissected an animal can attest that only real world experience will suffice for the real thing.

  34. @Steve Sailer
    @George

    "NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated."

    NYU is a relatively cheap way for upper middle class kids to figure out if they really like NYC or not. NYU is in Greenwich Village, which is about as great as New York City can get for 20-year-olds.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Reg Cæsar

    NYU is a relatively cheap way

    NYU, like Penn, is a private institution. Don’t let the name fool you.

    It costs $76,614 to go to NYU—but here’s how much students actually pay

    It apparently fools many. Google “NUY tuition” and the top hits are variations of the question “how much does it cost to go to NYU for out-of-state…” The same as for in-state!

    My uncle taught at a state college in Michigan, and he was quite surprised when, late in his long career, I told him this. “[State] U.” or “U. of [State]” are assumed to be state institutions, and flagship at that. This is true of 47 states.

    New Jersey is the other exception, the only state without an eponymous university. The old College of New Jersey today goes by “Princeton”.

    State schools are a Southern invention. In the Northeast, they were Jonathans-come-lately.

    Are Ohio State and Penn State the only flagships with “State” in their titles? Ohio U has become an afterthought, like Bowling Green or Miami.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Reg Cæsar

    There are 4 exceptions, all of which you mention to some extent.

    New Jersey (Rutgers)
    Pennsylvania (Penn State)
    Ohio (Ohio State)
    New York (State University of New York, although it is not clear which campus, if any, is the flagship)

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Known Fact
    @Reg Cæsar

    Many states have a yin and yang duo of "flagship" schools -- Kansas/Kansas State, Iowa/Iowa State, NC/NC State etc. The "state" school just usually tends to focus more on practical vocational and aggie know-how and would probably bristle at being considered second-class. Or perhaps be proud of seeming scrappier and less upscale.

    On the other hand, a few schools like Memphis State have dropped the "state" (or "community college") from their name to sound more upscale.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Paleo Liberal

  35. @Eddie the swarthy rat cellar
    Hidden Figures travelled 6 million miles in heel y'all

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax

    And backwards!

  36. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    [1] "One interpretation of this boost is that represents the adjustment needed to compensate for the additional difficulties that female candidates have had in publishing their work and getting cited":
    What is the grammatical subject of the verb "represents"? Is this the copying of a misprint from the original source? I could not find this wording in the cited work
    https://www.nber.org/papers/w30510#fromrss

    [2] "The Nobel Prizes do have some brand equity to expend defending the principle of fairness."
    What does this mean?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_equity
    explains that a widely known brand is worth more commercially than an obscure brand, but what does it mean to "expend" brand equity?

    Replies: @David Jones

    As regards the Nobel Prize organisation, it mean that they have enough prestige to stick to their ethos even if they lose some of it by not going along with the zeitgeist.

  37. @Anon
    OT: California Gov. Gavin Newsom signs bill decriminalizing jaywalking.

    I suppose the idea is, "Vote for me! Me Big Democrat! I give you great gifts. I let you jaywalk!"

    If I were someone who drove a lot, I'd be irate, since this makes the roads more dangerous. No one wants some big dumb jogger flying through their windshield. This will end up with a lot of more Newsom's black constituents getting killed by drivers. The whole reason jaywalking laws exist is to protect pedestrians from cars. I can just see blacks staggering away from a bar at night and getting run over. Black skin means you're not as visible in shade or at night as a white person is.

    https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxnews.com/us/california-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16648958281963&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fus%2Fcalifornia-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Quidnunc

    Black skin means you’re not as visible in shade or at night as a white person is.

    Moonlight is racist?

  38. An alternative interpretation is that it reflects a preference of the academies to achieve higher diversity and inclusion with respect to the gender composition. 

    How is that an alternative explanation? Not only is it the most obvious to even the most dim observer, it’s the stated goal of these industries and their bureaucratic overlords

  39. @stillCARealist
    No, it's likely that these stupid shut downs and zoom classes messed with the students who need the most direct, spell-it-out, in the flesh instruction.

    On top of the generation who is ruined by video games and social media, we took away the real teaching and accountability and replaced it with another stupid screen.

    The whole country, maybe the whole world, was cheating during those zoom classes. I got that first-hand from the numerous high school students I know during those two years, 2020/21. And none of them learned really anything. My daughter did her first year of college through zoom and it was far inferior to what she experienced when they came back to campus. Fortunately it was a lot cheaper.

    Organic chemistry is hard, and should be, no doubt, but most of those NYU kids will never go to medical school anyway. Let those who can gain the confidence of learning it do so, and quickly signal to those who can't to find a different track. Calculus does the same thing for most students, and there's no shame in discovering you aren't cut out for that complexity.

    But for reality's sake, get the kids back in the flesh and let the recorded lectures be a supplement, not a replacement.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    I have heard from students at several medical schools that recorded lectures are pretty much standard these days. The students prefer them to live lectures because the students can pause and replay the lectures. A conscientious student can get more out of the recorded lecture than a live one. The “small sessions “ (what are called recitation sections in many undergraduate schools) are live, since this is where questions are asked and problems worked out.

    So getting pre-meds used to recorded lectures may be a good thing. For those who can handle it.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  40. @Anon
    OT: California Gov. Gavin Newsom signs bill decriminalizing jaywalking.

    I suppose the idea is, "Vote for me! Me Big Democrat! I give you great gifts. I let you jaywalk!"

    If I were someone who drove a lot, I'd be irate, since this makes the roads more dangerous. No one wants some big dumb jogger flying through their windshield. This will end up with a lot of more Newsom's black constituents getting killed by drivers. The whole reason jaywalking laws exist is to protect pedestrians from cars. I can just see blacks staggering away from a bar at night and getting run over. Black skin means you're not as visible in shade or at night as a white person is.

    https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxnews.com/us/california-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16648958281963&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fus%2Fcalifornia-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Quidnunc

    The whole reason jaywalking laws exist is to protect pedestrians from cars.

    Or you could hold drivers to higher standards, as in other countries. Visitors are always surprised to learn that “jaywalking” is a crime here, when it isn’t one at home. Or even a word.

    OxfordLanguages-via-Google’s-English-dictionary:

    jay·walk
    /ˈjāˌwôk/
    verb NORTH AMERICAN

    These laws, along with mandatory-to-carry state-issued ID cards and a stratospheric minimum age for alcohol purchase– go on, try buying a Bud Light Sam Adams for a 20½-year-old reservist who left his lower leg in the Hindu Kush– are among the petty authoritarianisms our “freedom machines” result in.

    Actually,

    The term “jay” once referred to a foolish rural person who cannot navigate city streets.

    https://www.nolo.com/dictionary/jaywalking-term.html

    In other words, it’s an insult like “flyover country”.

  41. @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    NYU is a relatively cheap way
     
    NYU, like Penn, is a private institution. Don't let the name fool you.

    It costs $76,614 to go to NYU—but here’s how much students actually pay

    It apparently fools many. Google "NUY tuition" and the top hits are variations of the question "how much does it cost to go to NYU for out-of-state..." The same as for in-state!

    My uncle taught at a state college in Michigan, and he was quite surprised when, late in his long career, I told him this. "[State] U." or "U. of [State]" are assumed to be state institutions, and flagship at that. This is true of 47 states.

    New Jersey is the other exception, the only state without an eponymous university. The old College of New Jersey today goes by "Princeton".

    State schools are a Southern invention. In the Northeast, they were Jonathans-come-lately.

    Are Ohio State and Penn State the only flagships with "State" in their titles? Ohio U has become an afterthought, like Bowling Green or Miami.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Known Fact

    There are 4 exceptions, all of which you mention to some extent.

    New Jersey (Rutgers)
    Pennsylvania (Penn State)
    Ohio (Ohio State)
    New York (State University of New York, although it is not clear which campus, if any, is the flagship)

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Paleo Liberal

    There is no flagship in New York. Buffalo has the largest student census, Binghamton the most exacting undergraduate admissions. University medical centers are at Buffalo and Stony Brook. Stand alone medical centers are in Syracuse and in Brooklyn. There are two public law schools, one at Buffalo and the other a stand-alone in Queens. The one in Queens is small and is a collecting pool of loosely wired characters destined for the public defender's office. Speaking impressionistically, the whole seems underinvested in engineering. The CUNY system has one engineering school with about 1,500 students. Don't believe the SUNY schools make up for the deficit. (Not sure that Binghamton has any engineering school - must check).

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Paleo Liberal

    "Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey" doesn't count. But that makes it the best-, not the worst-named flagship in the US. Jerseymen, be proud!

  42. @Blodgie
    I don’t expect this post to get much traction from the controlled, milquetoast simps (the majority of Steve’s audience) who are fine with AA for white women because muh daughter!

    And your wife might get mad at you if you dared to speak out against this obvious injustice.

    But if blacks are benefiting from AA, you have the fury of a thousand suns.

    Bunch of Ned Flanders pussies.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Bill Jones

    I don’t expect this post to get much traction from the controlled, milquetoast simps (the majority of Steve’s audience) who are fine with AA for white women

    You are somewhat on the right track because it is controlled simps — not here but those in charge of our crucial businesses, institutions and scientific disciplines — who are busily caving in rather than dare to withstand the high-pitched screeching for “inclusion.”

    These are physical and theoretical structures that have been painstakingly built, sometimes over centuries, almost exclusively by men, but now they are carelessly handing over the keys

    I’ll say it again — I’ve interviewed some brilliant and accomplished females in science and other fields. But those fields, from the established core knowledge down to the equipment they use and the very building they work in — are there thanks to men.

  43. State schools are a Southern invention.

    Perhaps, some, originally. Good for them.

    But most today in places which didn’t become states until after, say 1830, were funded by the Land Grand system.

    State funded schools were funded by federal land (not belonging to individuals or states) that was sold or otherwise leased/monetized. The money was dedicated to founding “higher education.”

    The original purpose was to promote science and trade. Primarily agriculture. Or engineering.

    Nearly all central and western states have at least two of these, sometimes more as offshoots.

    One is/was primarily the “ag” school. The other one tends to be the law/medical/teacher school, at least originally. Today the Ag schools are more conservative, usually, and often more rigorous. The other one is full of comrades. Though things are more mixed now.

    Originally such places were mainly for educating those who raised food, built roads and railroads.

    Often the one university deemed “the University of X” is the law/medical soft academics one, whereas “X State” (i.e. Montana State) is the more ag/engineering version.

    In the sparsely populated NW, a group of states actually share a Medical School based in Washington state, since populations are too small for a state med school. But as for lawyers, nearly all have their own law school, albeit small. State laws vary and local bar monopolies keep that alive.

  44. @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    NYU is a relatively cheap way
     
    NYU, like Penn, is a private institution. Don't let the name fool you.

    It costs $76,614 to go to NYU—but here’s how much students actually pay

    It apparently fools many. Google "NUY tuition" and the top hits are variations of the question "how much does it cost to go to NYU for out-of-state..." The same as for in-state!

    My uncle taught at a state college in Michigan, and he was quite surprised when, late in his long career, I told him this. "[State] U." or "U. of [State]" are assumed to be state institutions, and flagship at that. This is true of 47 states.

    New Jersey is the other exception, the only state without an eponymous university. The old College of New Jersey today goes by "Princeton".

    State schools are a Southern invention. In the Northeast, they were Jonathans-come-lately.

    Are Ohio State and Penn State the only flagships with "State" in their titles? Ohio U has become an afterthought, like Bowling Green or Miami.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Known Fact

    Many states have a yin and yang duo of “flagship” schools — Kansas/Kansas State, Iowa/Iowa State, NC/NC State etc. The “state” school just usually tends to focus more on practical vocational and aggie know-how and would probably bristle at being considered second-class. Or perhaps be proud of seeming scrappier and less upscale.

    On the other hand, a few schools like Memphis State have dropped the “state” (or “community college”) from their name to sound more upscale.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Known Fact


    The “state” school just usually tends to focus more on practical vocational and aggie know-how and would probably bristle at being considered second-class. Or perhaps be proud of seeming scrappier and less upscale.
     
    In some states, this school is known to locals as "Moo U". I like to tell Midwesterners that in my home state, Moo U is Cornell.

    Or at least @ Cornell. Regular Big Red grad Ann Coulter says it doesn't count as Ivy. My stepuncle got his degree there, and rose to VP at a major condiment-aisle corporation.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Nicholas Stix

    , @Paleo Liberal
    @Known Fact

    U Wisconsin Milwaukee, tired of being the #2 campus in the UW system, wants to rename the school as Wisconsin State.

    The problem is, the flagship campus in Madison allows good students from the other UW colleges, as well as some of the tech colleges, to automatically transfer to the flagship campus in Madison for their junior and senior years. Not sure if UW Milwaukee students would lose that if it became Wisconsin State.

    The transfer policy is due to two problems.

    First, for financial reasons, Wisconsin takes a large number of wealthy out of state and foreign students. This transfer policy at least gives more local kids the opportunity to graduate with a UW Madison degree.

    Second, about half of the students who start as freshmen leave by the end of their sophomore year. Some transfer to other schools, but a very large number drink themselves out of college. There is an extremely serious alcohol problem. The transfer policy allows these students to be replaced by students who may not be as rich (some did a tech college) or didn’t have the ACT scores or HS grades but who proved themselves to be serious students. Replace your drunkards with middle class Sconnies.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Anonymous

  45. @Anon

    I could see an argument for admitting women who are mothers with less productivity — they are probably smarter than their CV would suggest.
     
    Huh? Being smart isn’t the metric. Otherwise they could admit female graduates of Harvard Law, who had they instead become scientists might have accomplished a lot.

    Smarts plus long term effort and dedication, plus luck, resulting in actual documented and verified accomplishments greater than most of your colleagues in the field. That is the metric.

    Replies: @TG

    Agreed! The world is full of smart under-achievers…

    Here is this from Wikipedia:

    “Based on the historical findings of the Terman study and on biographical examples such as Richard Feynman, who had a self-reported IQ of 125 and went on to win the Nobel Prize in physics and become widely known as a genius,[48][49] the current view of psychologists and other scholars of genius is that a minimum level of IQ (approximately 125) is necessary for genius but not sufficient, and must be combined with personality characteristics such as drive and persistence, plus the necessary opportunities for talent development.[50][51][52]”

  46. So far, the three hard science Nobel Prizes have best resisted the Spirit of the Age.

    I’ve mentioned before but this is due to the big logjam of possible awardees who are also disproportionately male and white.

    To get a Nobel your work not only has to be significant but been proven to be significant. And that takes time. Plenty of work that was hailed at the time amounted to not being very important.

    Generally it has to be about 15 years since publishing for it’s value to be felt and determined through citations and work upon it.

    The 20th century was a time of huge discoverers and progress that has tapered off in many fields as the low hanging fruit was picked. So the farther back you go, the better the candidates as individual awardees. (Things have become so much more collaborative out of necessity, things you could do with fewer people have been done.)

    Where women are really staring to take over in the hard sciences is biology. Men in biology are beginning to transition to bioinformatics.

  47. After the basic Econ 101 stuff – S&D, elasticity, etc., Economics is such a bullshit field that who knows if anyone’s good at it or not?

    Hell, nominate a Haitian Voodoo Doctor – I’ll vote for him.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    @Achmed E. Newman


    After the basic Econ 101 stuff – S&D, elasticity, etc., Economics is such a bullshit field that who knows if anyone’s good at it or not?
     
    I liked Econ 101 level economics. I took an economics course in high school and got the highest grade on every test of anyone in the class. I thought of majoring in it in college, but it was mostly that Keynesian crap which I wasn't interested in. I liked the Austrians like Mises, Hayek and Rothbard but that wasn't what was taught in my college economics department.

    It's unfortunate that people can't pursue a field they would be good at because colleges act as a gatekeeper to so many professions and filter out anyone not willing to follow the party line and parrot the conventional wisdom. Instead of economics I majored in journalism, which was just as bad. I finally ended up in accounting, which I did ok at and got a career in, but I think I would have been better at and happier with if I had been able to follow a career path like economics that I was more interested in. Ending the leftist domination of higher education is one of the highest priorities if we want to get this country back on the right track.

    , @Glaivester
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That's why there is no Nobel Prize in Economics.

    There is a Swedish Central Bank Prize that pretends to be a Nobel Prize, though.

  48. “The Nobel Prizes do have some brand equity to expend defending the principle of fairness.”

    Just to recap, the HARD SCIENCE Nobel Prizes have brand equity. The Nobel Peace Prize? The (fake) Nobel Prize in Economics? ROTFL.

  49. @Paleo Liberal
    @Reg Cæsar

    There are 4 exceptions, all of which you mention to some extent.

    New Jersey (Rutgers)
    Pennsylvania (Penn State)
    Ohio (Ohio State)
    New York (State University of New York, although it is not clear which campus, if any, is the flagship)

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Reg Cæsar

    There is no flagship in New York. Buffalo has the largest student census, Binghamton the most exacting undergraduate admissions. University medical centers are at Buffalo and Stony Brook. Stand alone medical centers are in Syracuse and in Brooklyn. There are two public law schools, one at Buffalo and the other a stand-alone in Queens. The one in Queens is small and is a collecting pool of loosely wired characters destined for the public defender’s office. Speaking impressionistically, the whole seems underinvested in engineering. The CUNY system has one engineering school with about 1,500 students. Don’t believe the SUNY schools make up for the deficit. (Not sure that Binghamton has any engineering school – must check).

  50. @Paleo Liberal
    @Thulean Friend

    Notice that multi racial is the second highest category.

    Multi racial can be a mix of any of these ethnic groups. But. A certain number of multi racial kids are the children of a high performing white guy and a smart Asian lady.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    A very high certain number, like virtually all of the high-scoring, “mixed” testees.

  51. @Celt Darnell
    “The Nobel Prizes do have some brand equity to expend defending the principle of fairness.”

    Yup — and in a decade tops, they’ll be just as Woke as all the others. Virtually every serious publication and award has fallen, Nobel is just holding on, hoping the Peace Prize will save it.

    Memo: it won’t.

    Replies: @Kylie

    “Virtually every serious publication and award has fallen, Nobel is just holding on, hoping the Peace Prize will save it.”

    You mean this Peace Prize?

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PnLqoRtUAVg&feature=share&si=EMSIkaIECMiOmarE6JChQQ

  52. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @SafeNow

    It is almost automatic if you see an attractive woman in a technical field that guys did nearly all their college homework and they are stunted in the brain because of this. In thirty years I have seen one exception to this. She turned 30 and became a stay home mom.

    A couple of these bimbos are now corporate VP's.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @The Wild Geese Howard

    This isn’t my experience at all. (If you consider software a technical field)

    If anything, I’ve observed a mild positive correlation between hotness and programming talent in women.

    • Disagree: The Wild Geese Howard
    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Recently Based

    Smart can be hot but even more important is those "I'm Smart" glasses, so beloved by female TV newswomen. My wife just got a pair of those heavier frames, to go along with her usual wire rims, and even her most pedestrian utterance is now imbued with a rather fetching gravitas.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Recently Based

    All you have to do to convert my experience to yours is rewrite the standards of judging smartness and hotness. : )

  53. anonymous[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    OT: California Gov. Gavin Newsom signs bill decriminalizing jaywalking.

    I suppose the idea is, "Vote for me! Me Big Democrat! I give you great gifts. I let you jaywalk!"

    If I were someone who drove a lot, I'd be irate, since this makes the roads more dangerous. No one wants some big dumb jogger flying through their windshield. This will end up with a lot of more Newsom's black constituents getting killed by drivers. The whole reason jaywalking laws exist is to protect pedestrians from cars. I can just see blacks staggering away from a bar at night and getting run over. Black skin means you're not as visible in shade or at night as a white person is.

    https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxnews.com/us/california-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16648958281963&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fus%2Fcalifornia-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Quidnunc

    I’m the only person I know who’s received two jaywalking tickets. The first was in Oakland at 6:00 a.m. on a Saturday in 1976, the other on Sunset Blvd. on a weekday afternoon in 1987. Both cycle cops. I almost got a third about ten years ago, a step off the Berkeley campus on a football Saturday, but the black lady cop, 5’2” 160, let me off with a hysterical tongue-lashing.

    In any event, this is obviously in the same vein as no longer pulling over cars for inoperative tail lights or expired reg., but somehow I can’t believe cops have been issuing many jaywalking tickets to blacks.

  54. @Bardon Kaldian

    I could see an argument for admitting women who are mothers with less productivity — they are probably smarter than their CV would suggest — but of course that implies there should be no thumb on the scale for admitting women women are not mothers.
     
    Exactly my thoughts.

    By the way, Feynman ditched NAS. He was, as in most other cases, right.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    First you have to define the purpose of giving out these prestigious designations. Is it to recognize one’s existing body of work and actual contribution to the field — sort of like a lifetime achievement award? Or, is it supposed to be a list of all-stars who are currently at the top of their game and are thus deemed to be the most likely to contribute going forward?

    Either way, Steve’s idea of giving bonus points for motherhood doesn’t make any sense. Your quality and quantity of work either demonstrates that you meet the standard or it doesn’t. What you’ve been up to in the rest of your life has nothing to do with it.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Hypnotoad666


    Either way, Steve’s idea of giving bonus points for motherhood doesn’t make any sense.
     
    It does. It is about cutting women who are mothers, and yet have given in their fields significant contributions recognized by their peers, some slack. Easy peasy. One could write an algorithm for that.

    And all significant sci tech prizes ( Millennium, Abel, Nobel, Wolf, Lasker, Fields, ...) have the same mechanism: people who are recognized specialists in those areas nominate further candidates. Sometimes it takes time- for instance, those Physics Nobelists should have gotten it 15-20 years ago.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  55. @Paleo Liberal
    @Steve Sailer

    I remember a Columbia student who always complained that the NYU students didn’t deserve the Village while he had to be in Morningside Heights.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Jim Don Bob

    I remember a piece by a New Republic editor from around 1986 that read in part, “California is too good for Californians.” Might explain a lot.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @anonymous

    It was Michael Kinsley, around about 1984. He said, "youth is wasted on the young and California is wasted on Californians".

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  56. @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    I'm guessing Jeffrey Sachs didn't get his job through affirmative action. It's so good to hear men speak simple, obvious truths. So shameful when they play dumb.

    Here he is on Nordstrom. He's saying what everyone already knows:

    https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1577136151416037376

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave

    Sachs is great. Politically, he’s a peacenik liberal who does most of his work on development economics and reducing world poverty. But he’s own of those people who is totally dedicated to intellectual honesty and gives zero f***s about the prevailing narrative. You can also find clips of him going off on how Covid was obviously cooked up in the Wuhan lab, duh.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @Hypnotoad666


    You can also find clips of him going off on how Covid was obviously cooked up in the Wuhan lab, duh.
     
    Yep. Well, Dean Koontz predicted that in 1981 in a novel.

    But what about L Ron Unzzard claiming that Covid was a bioweapon attack by the US against China? That is mutually exclusive with the Wuhan Lab view.

    Ron Unz claims that Dr. Sachs agrees with him, but evidence to support this assertion has not appeared.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    , @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    @Hypnotoad666

    I've noticed Jeffrey Sachs tells the truth. He may be that rare bird, the Honest Liberal.

    He was involved in the program to help Russia transform its economy back in the early 90s, but he said it went off the rails with other people taking over and that they did damage. He also called out Obama for using the CIA to overthrow the Syrian gov't.

    , @Bill Jones
    @Hypnotoad666

    You might want to read up on his part of the fucking over of Russia in the '90's .

  57. @Paleo Liberal
    @Steve Sailer

    I remember a Columbia student who always complained that the NYU students didn’t deserve the Village while he had to be in Morningside Heights.

    Replies: @anonymous, @Jim Don Bob

    I wish I’d said that. I had friends at NYU. I’d go downtown and we’d get high and wander around Greenwich Village which is one of the nicest parts of NYC. Also not as many muggers as Morningside Heights.

  58. @Achmed E. Newman
    After the basic Econ 101 stuff - S&D, elasticity, etc., Economics is such a bullshit field that who knows if anyone's good at it or not?

    Hell, nominate a Haitian Voodoo Doctor - I'll vote for him.

    Replies: @Mark G., @Glaivester

    After the basic Econ 101 stuff – S&D, elasticity, etc., Economics is such a bullshit field that who knows if anyone’s good at it or not?

    I liked Econ 101 level economics. I took an economics course in high school and got the highest grade on every test of anyone in the class. I thought of majoring in it in college, but it was mostly that Keynesian crap which I wasn’t interested in. I liked the Austrians like Mises, Hayek and Rothbard but that wasn’t what was taught in my college economics department.

    It’s unfortunate that people can’t pursue a field they would be good at because colleges act as a gatekeeper to so many professions and filter out anyone not willing to follow the party line and parrot the conventional wisdom. Instead of economics I majored in journalism, which was just as bad. I finally ended up in accounting, which I did ok at and got a career in, but I think I would have been better at and happier with if I had been able to follow a career path like economics that I was more interested in. Ending the leftist domination of higher education is one of the highest priorities if we want to get this country back on the right track.

  59. @Known Fact
    @Reg Cæsar

    Many states have a yin and yang duo of "flagship" schools -- Kansas/Kansas State, Iowa/Iowa State, NC/NC State etc. The "state" school just usually tends to focus more on practical vocational and aggie know-how and would probably bristle at being considered second-class. Or perhaps be proud of seeming scrappier and less upscale.

    On the other hand, a few schools like Memphis State have dropped the "state" (or "community college") from their name to sound more upscale.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Paleo Liberal

    The “state” school just usually tends to focus more on practical vocational and aggie know-how and would probably bristle at being considered second-class. Or perhaps be proud of seeming scrappier and less upscale.

    In some states, this school is known to locals as “Moo U”. I like to tell Midwesterners that in my home state, Moo U is Cornell.

    Or at least @ Cornell. Regular Big Red grad Ann Coulter says it doesn’t count as Ivy. My stepuncle got his degree there, and rose to VP at a major condiment-aisle corporation.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Reg Cæsar

    Cornell does have a weird Ivy League/Moo U State split personality. Our first few dogs had a great vet from Cornell. Now as far as Rutgers, one celebrity grad who instantly comes to mind is Mr. Magoo.

    Mizzou doubled as flagship and Moo U. Some of the best rock concerts were held at the livestock pavilion

    Replies: @Hibernian

    , @Nicholas Stix
    @Reg Cæsar

    I like Ann a lot, but not her antiversity snobbery.

    For the record, I got my B.A. over the dead body of an administrator at SUNY Stony Brook. However, the new president in 1980, physicist John W. Marburger III, was embarrassed by SB's name, even though it was a flagship state university, so he got it changed to "Stony Brook University."

    I never use the latter name, when speaking of my alma mater. I'm not a social climber.

    Replies: @Known Fact

  60. @Paleo Liberal
    @Reg Cæsar

    There are 4 exceptions, all of which you mention to some extent.

    New Jersey (Rutgers)
    Pennsylvania (Penn State)
    Ohio (Ohio State)
    New York (State University of New York, although it is not clear which campus, if any, is the flagship)

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Reg Cæsar

    “Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey” doesn’t count. But that makes it the best-, not the worst-named flagship in the US. Jerseymen, be proud!

  61. @Hypnotoad666
    @Bardon Kaldian

    First you have to define the purpose of giving out these prestigious designations. Is it to recognize one's existing body of work and actual contribution to the field -- sort of like a lifetime achievement award? Or, is it supposed to be a list of all-stars who are currently at the top of their game and are thus deemed to be the most likely to contribute going forward?

    Either way, Steve's idea of giving bonus points for motherhood doesn't make any sense. Your quality and quantity of work either demonstrates that you meet the standard or it doesn't. What you've been up to in the rest of your life has nothing to do with it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Either way, Steve’s idea of giving bonus points for motherhood doesn’t make any sense.

    It does. It is about cutting women who are mothers, and yet have given in their fields significant contributions recognized by their peers, some slack. Easy peasy. One could write an algorithm for that.

    And all significant sci tech prizes ( Millennium, Abel, Nobel, Wolf, Lasker, Fields, …) have the same mechanism: people who are recognized specialists in those areas nominate further candidates. Sometimes it takes time- for instance, those Physics Nobelists should have gotten it 15-20 years ago.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Bardon Kaldian


    It does. It is about cutting women who are mothers, and yet have given in their fields significant contributions recognized by their peers, some slack. Easy peasy. One could write an algorithm for that.
     
    It just goes back to what these prizes are supposed to mean. "Significant contributions" isn't necessarily very elite. But if meeting this threshold plus being an admirable person is the proper standard, then sure, give points for motherhood or good works or being a good role model, etc. I honestly don't what the functional purpose these distinctions are intended to serve.

    Maybe we don't even need prizes and elite societies. We could just let everyone's work speak for itself.
  62. Affirmative Action for Women Has Gotten Flagrant…

    Whereas affirmative action for men is silently rampant in university admissions offices these days, according to a professor at U of St Thomas. (Whom I won’t name, but is the father of six.) The reason is that increasingly female-heavy institutions are unattractive to young women, thus risking sending a school into what he calls a “death spiral”.

    So while white men are discriminated against, and are certainly the most vilified segment, they are not the most-discriminated-against. White women and (East) Asian men can face greater odds.

  63. @Reg Cæsar
    @Known Fact


    The “state” school just usually tends to focus more on practical vocational and aggie know-how and would probably bristle at being considered second-class. Or perhaps be proud of seeming scrappier and less upscale.
     
    In some states, this school is known to locals as "Moo U". I like to tell Midwesterners that in my home state, Moo U is Cornell.

    Or at least @ Cornell. Regular Big Red grad Ann Coulter says it doesn't count as Ivy. My stepuncle got his degree there, and rose to VP at a major condiment-aisle corporation.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Nicholas Stix

    Cornell does have a weird Ivy League/Moo U State split personality. Our first few dogs had a great vet from Cornell. Now as far as Rutgers, one celebrity grad who instantly comes to mind is Mr. Magoo.

    Mizzou doubled as flagship and Moo U. Some of the best rock concerts were held at the livestock pavilion

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Known Fact


    Mizzou doubled as flagship and Moo U.
     
    Same for Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Ohio State.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

  64. @Reg Cæsar
    @Known Fact


    The “state” school just usually tends to focus more on practical vocational and aggie know-how and would probably bristle at being considered second-class. Or perhaps be proud of seeming scrappier and less upscale.
     
    In some states, this school is known to locals as "Moo U". I like to tell Midwesterners that in my home state, Moo U is Cornell.

    Or at least @ Cornell. Regular Big Red grad Ann Coulter says it doesn't count as Ivy. My stepuncle got his degree there, and rose to VP at a major condiment-aisle corporation.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Nicholas Stix

    I like Ann a lot, but not her antiversity snobbery.

    For the record, I got my B.A. over the dead body of an administrator at SUNY Stony Brook. However, the new president in 1980, physicist John W. Marburger III, was embarrassed by SB’s name, even though it was a flagship state university, so he got it changed to “Stony Brook University.”

    I never use the latter name, when speaking of my alma mater. I’m not a social climber.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Nicholas Stix

    I wonder if the name change has something to do with Stony Brook's ambitions -- or delusions of grandeur -- for its basketball program and someday even football. Or as one of the top SUNY schools they just do not want to be associated with SUNY-Bumfuck or SUNY-Jibippsville or bear the label of "branch campus."

    It really is odd that a major state like NY does not have one big flagship NY State U -- geez, even Connecticut has UConn. It does have Syracuse but that's private. Yes much of NY state is sleepy and rural but no more so than midwestern states with major universities out in their boonies -- which is where I'd want my kids to go

    One byproduct of all this is that college sports are basically ignored in the NY metro area -- it's sports mad but only for the pros

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  65. @Tono-Bungay
    One question for a society that insists that women prepare for careers as well as men: To what extent will women's higher education be wasted -- from society's point of view -- if they drop out of the work force, fully or partly, in order to be with their eventual children? Educating doctors, for example, is amazingly expensive, and admission to medical school is extremely limited. Are there studies that look at who retires early, who chooses part-time work etc.? Is the investment in female doctors being rewarded? Or does it appear upon examination like a vanity project?

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @puttheforkdown, @Graveldips

    A first year med student I know told me that 2/3 of the first year students at her med school are female.

    This was a mid-range med school, so this is probably a huge trend.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @Paleo Liberal


    A first year med student I know told me that 2/3 of the first year students at her med school are female.

    This was a mid-range med school, so this is probably a huge trend.
     
    I've seen claims that all things being equal, if a profession loses status, respect etc. men stop entering it and are replaced by women. Lots of things like "demonstrate meaningful use" of electronic medical records from Obama's "stimulus" package (and overall he really disrespected doctors), that and ever more friction making it harder and harder to have an independent practice instead of working for the man, Medicare in the context of an aging population, I'd expect when you add AA to the mix you'd expect this result.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

  66. Anonymous[954] • Disclaimer says:

    And in other news, kid content creators from Scooby Doo declare formerly super nerd Velma’s official culinary preference as young African American vagina, and she can’t wait!

    If your little girl fantasizes about “eating at the Y,” Scooby Doo is for her!

  67. If you want to take a really deep dive into this topic consider reading my brother’s autobiography. Jon is an NYU grad who went to NYU Med. He recently retired and is now churning out his memoirs. He’s a very based dude and is currently at work on book #5. I’d love for Steve to give it a try and report his thoughts.



  68. @Known Fact
    @Reg Cæsar

    Many states have a yin and yang duo of "flagship" schools -- Kansas/Kansas State, Iowa/Iowa State, NC/NC State etc. The "state" school just usually tends to focus more on practical vocational and aggie know-how and would probably bristle at being considered second-class. Or perhaps be proud of seeming scrappier and less upscale.

    On the other hand, a few schools like Memphis State have dropped the "state" (or "community college") from their name to sound more upscale.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Paleo Liberal

    U Wisconsin Milwaukee, tired of being the #2 campus in the UW system, wants to rename the school as Wisconsin State.

    The problem is, the flagship campus in Madison allows good students from the other UW colleges, as well as some of the tech colleges, to automatically transfer to the flagship campus in Madison for their junior and senior years. Not sure if UW Milwaukee students would lose that if it became Wisconsin State.

    The transfer policy is due to two problems.

    First, for financial reasons, Wisconsin takes a large number of wealthy out of state and foreign students. This transfer policy at least gives more local kids the opportunity to graduate with a UW Madison degree.

    Second, about half of the students who start as freshmen leave by the end of their sophomore year. Some transfer to other schools, but a very large number drink themselves out of college. There is an extremely serious alcohol problem. The transfer policy allows these students to be replaced by students who may not be as rich (some did a tech college) or didn’t have the ACT scores or HS grades but who proved themselves to be serious students. Replace your drunkards with middle class Sconnies.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Paleo Liberal

    I don't see why the various transfer/admissions policies would need to change, it sounds mostly like a branding situation. They would understandably prefer "Wisconsin State" to being a so-called "directional school" or "branch campus." Much like Florida State, for example, certainly connotes more power than would U Florida-Tallahassee

    People might be cynical about the change for a while, but eventually the branding would work and "Wisconsin State" would connote a major midwestern university much like Oklahoma State or Iowa State, rather than just some dumpy branch campus.

    , @Anonymous
    @Paleo Liberal


    First, for financial reasons, Wisconsin takes a large number of wealthy out of state and foreign students.
     
    Should American universities be allowed to enroll foreigners?

    Replies: @Art Deco

  69. @Paleo Liberal
    @Known Fact

    U Wisconsin Milwaukee, tired of being the #2 campus in the UW system, wants to rename the school as Wisconsin State.

    The problem is, the flagship campus in Madison allows good students from the other UW colleges, as well as some of the tech colleges, to automatically transfer to the flagship campus in Madison for their junior and senior years. Not sure if UW Milwaukee students would lose that if it became Wisconsin State.

    The transfer policy is due to two problems.

    First, for financial reasons, Wisconsin takes a large number of wealthy out of state and foreign students. This transfer policy at least gives more local kids the opportunity to graduate with a UW Madison degree.

    Second, about half of the students who start as freshmen leave by the end of their sophomore year. Some transfer to other schools, but a very large number drink themselves out of college. There is an extremely serious alcohol problem. The transfer policy allows these students to be replaced by students who may not be as rich (some did a tech college) or didn’t have the ACT scores or HS grades but who proved themselves to be serious students. Replace your drunkards with middle class Sconnies.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Anonymous

    I don’t see why the various transfer/admissions policies would need to change, it sounds mostly like a branding situation. They would understandably prefer “Wisconsin State” to being a so-called “directional school” or “branch campus.” Much like Florida State, for example, certainly connotes more power than would U Florida-Tallahassee

    People might be cynical about the change for a while, but eventually the branding would work and “Wisconsin State” would connote a major midwestern university much like Oklahoma State or Iowa State, rather than just some dumpy branch campus.

  70. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Hypnotoad666


    Either way, Steve’s idea of giving bonus points for motherhood doesn’t make any sense.
     
    It does. It is about cutting women who are mothers, and yet have given in their fields significant contributions recognized by their peers, some slack. Easy peasy. One could write an algorithm for that.

    And all significant sci tech prizes ( Millennium, Abel, Nobel, Wolf, Lasker, Fields, ...) have the same mechanism: people who are recognized specialists in those areas nominate further candidates. Sometimes it takes time- for instance, those Physics Nobelists should have gotten it 15-20 years ago.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    It does. It is about cutting women who are mothers, and yet have given in their fields significant contributions recognized by their peers, some slack. Easy peasy. One could write an algorithm for that.

    It just goes back to what these prizes are supposed to mean. “Significant contributions” isn’t necessarily very elite. But if meeting this threshold plus being an admirable person is the proper standard, then sure, give points for motherhood or good works or being a good role model, etc. I honestly don’t what the functional purpose these distinctions are intended to serve.

    Maybe we don’t even need prizes and elite societies. We could just let everyone’s work speak for itself.

  71. @Nicholas Stix
    @Reg Cæsar

    I like Ann a lot, but not her antiversity snobbery.

    For the record, I got my B.A. over the dead body of an administrator at SUNY Stony Brook. However, the new president in 1980, physicist John W. Marburger III, was embarrassed by SB's name, even though it was a flagship state university, so he got it changed to "Stony Brook University."

    I never use the latter name, when speaking of my alma mater. I'm not a social climber.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    I wonder if the name change has something to do with Stony Brook’s ambitions — or delusions of grandeur — for its basketball program and someday even football. Or as one of the top SUNY schools they just do not want to be associated with SUNY-Bumfuck or SUNY-Jibippsville or bear the label of “branch campus.”

    It really is odd that a major state like NY does not have one big flagship NY State U — geez, even Connecticut has UConn. It does have Syracuse but that’s private. Yes much of NY state is sleepy and rural but no more so than midwestern states with major universities out in their boonies — which is where I’d want my kids to go

    One byproduct of all this is that college sports are basically ignored in the NY metro area — it’s sports mad but only for the pros

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Known Fact

    Cornell is sort of kind of the University of New York.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Known Fact

  72. @Paleo Liberal
    @Tono-Bungay

    A first year med student I know told me that 2/3 of the first year students at her med school are female.

    This was a mid-range med school, so this is probably a huge trend.

    Replies: @That Would Be Telling

    A first year med student I know told me that 2/3 of the first year students at her med school are female.

    This was a mid-range med school, so this is probably a huge trend.

    I’ve seen claims that all things being equal, if a profession loses status, respect etc. men stop entering it and are replaced by women. Lots of things like “demonstrate meaningful use” of electronic medical records from Obama’s “stimulus” package (and overall he really disrespected doctors), that and ever more friction making it harder and harder to have an independent practice instead of working for the man, Medicare in the context of an aging population, I’d expect when you add AA to the mix you’d expect this result.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @That Would Be Telling

    I think quite a bit of it has to do with the feminization of higher education.

    Asian women slightly outnumber Asian men in college.
    White woken greatly outnumber white men.
    Black women overwhelmingly outnumber black men. I’ve taught in several places where every black male student I had was African, Caribbean or on a sports team. And that was in the 1990s. It’s worse now.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  73. @Recently Based
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    This isn't my experience at all. (If you consider software a technical field)

    If anything, I've observed a mild positive correlation between hotness and programming talent in women.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Smart can be hot but even more important is those “I’m Smart” glasses, so beloved by female TV newswomen. My wife just got a pair of those heavier frames, to go along with her usual wire rims, and even her most pedestrian utterance is now imbued with a rather fetching gravitas.

  74. @Blodgie
    I don’t expect this post to get much traction from the controlled, milquetoast simps (the majority of Steve’s audience) who are fine with AA for white women because muh daughter!

    And your wife might get mad at you if you dared to speak out against this obvious injustice.

    But if blacks are benefiting from AA, you have the fury of a thousand suns.

    Bunch of Ned Flanders pussies.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Bill Jones

    Buy according to The Woman of Unz, all the Men of Unz are rabid misogynists!

    You can’t both be right.

  75. @That Would Be Telling
    @Paleo Liberal


    A first year med student I know told me that 2/3 of the first year students at her med school are female.

    This was a mid-range med school, so this is probably a huge trend.
     
    I've seen claims that all things being equal, if a profession loses status, respect etc. men stop entering it and are replaced by women. Lots of things like "demonstrate meaningful use" of electronic medical records from Obama's "stimulus" package (and overall he really disrespected doctors), that and ever more friction making it harder and harder to have an independent practice instead of working for the man, Medicare in the context of an aging population, I'd expect when you add AA to the mix you'd expect this result.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    I think quite a bit of it has to do with the feminization of higher education.

    Asian women slightly outnumber Asian men in college.
    White woken greatly outnumber white men.
    Black women overwhelmingly outnumber black men. I’ve taught in several places where every black male student I had was African, Caribbean or on a sports team. And that was in the 1990s. It’s worse now.

    • Thanks: That Would Be Telling
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Paleo Liberal

    The ratio of females to males among those awarded bachelor's degrees in 2018 was 1.2:1 for Orientals and East Indians, 1.3:1 for whites, 1.54:1 for hispanics, and 1.78:1 for blacks. The size of birth cohorts has undulated up and down since the war, not increasing on balance. The number of degrees awarded has seen secular increase for both men and women, but grown faster for the latter than for the former. Higher education is salient for sorting larger and larger shares of the labor market, but this is a less salient phenomenon for men, who dominate skilled trades.

    You can sort baccalaureate degrees in a course taxonomy by subject. Those taxa for which degrees awarded exceeded 1,000 are listed below, along with the ratio of men to women in each.

    Engineering technologies and engineering-related: 6.70
    Transportation and materials moving: 6.67
    Computer and information sciences: 4.00
    Engineering: 3.50
    Theology and religious vocations: 2.26
    Philosophy and religious studies: 1.62
    Physical sciences and science technologies: 1.50
    History: 1.46
    Mathematics and statistics: 1.36
    Communications technologies: 1.28
    Business: 1.13
    Architecture and related services: 1.12
    Homeland security, law enforcement, and firefighting: 1.10
    Parks, recreation, leisure, and fitness studies: 1.05
    Social sciences: 0.93
    Agriculture and natural resources: 0.86
    All fields, total : 0.74
    Visual and performing arts: 0.63
    Biological and biomedical sciences: 0.61
    Liberal arts and sciences, general studies, and: 0.56
    Communication, journalism, and related programs: 0.53
    Multi/interdisciplinary studies: 0.51
    Legal professions and studies: 0.46
    Foreign languages, literatures, and linguistics: 0.45
    English language and literature/letters: 0.41
    Area, ethnic, cultural, gender, and group studies: 0.38
    Psychology: 0.27
    Education: 0.22
    Public administration and social services: 0.21
    Health professions and related programs: 0.18
    Family and consumer sciences/human sciences: 0.14

    NB, "Public administration and social services" usually refers to social work; 'health professions' usually refers to nursing.

  76. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @SafeNow

    It is almost automatic if you see an attractive woman in a technical field that guys did nearly all their college homework and they are stunted in the brain because of this. In thirty years I have seen one exception to this. She turned 30 and became a stay home mom.

    A couple of these bimbos are now corporate VP's.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @The Wild Geese Howard

    A couple of these bimbos are now corporate VP’s.

    I know one in these parts that made director in her early 30s.

    As a new college hire with an EE degree she worked with friends of mine.

    She blew off engineering testing, reporting, and analysis work for years.

  77. https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2022/10/04/kanye-west-everyone-knows-that-black-lives-matter-was-a-scam-now-its-over/

    Rap mogul and billionaire fashion entrepreneur Kanye West has declared that Black Lives Matter was always just a “scam,” saying that the movement is now “over.”

    A black guy said it so it must be true.

  78. @Tono-Bungay
    One question for a society that insists that women prepare for careers as well as men: To what extent will women's higher education be wasted -- from society's point of view -- if they drop out of the work force, fully or partly, in order to be with their eventual children? Educating doctors, for example, is amazingly expensive, and admission to medical school is extremely limited. Are there studies that look at who retires early, who chooses part-time work etc.? Is the investment in female doctors being rewarded? Or does it appear upon examination like a vanity project?

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @puttheforkdown, @Graveldips

    Sure – the Japanese were doing it (discriminating against women in admissions to medical school) for precisely that reason: women tend to drop out of practice in their late 30’s because, uh… they’re WOMEN, and don’t have the same grit, tenacity, gumption, what have you as males. They’d rather shack up and let hubby take care of the breadwinning after all. All was well and good on the eastern front until the outrage machine made the wise Nipponese walk it back.

    Ah well. Why not waste a decade + of resources on the changeable, lazy sex so they can wash out and let that prestigious MD collect dust? It’d be sexist not to!

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/world/asia/japan-medical-school-test-scores-women.html

  79. @anonymous
    @Paleo Liberal

    I remember a piece by a New Republic editor from around 1986 that read in part, “California is too good for Californians.” Might explain a lot.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    It was Michael Kinsley, around about 1984. He said, “youth is wasted on the young and California is wasted on Californians”.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Art Deco


    It was Michael Kinsley, around about 1984. He said, “youth is wasted on the young and California is wasted on Californians”.
     
    He was quoting a line from the 1960 Sammy Cahn-Jimmy Van Heusen classic "The Second Time Around", itself a version of Shaw's "youth is wasted on children". I swear I've heard "Paris is wasted on the French" in real life, but the sentence isn't found on the Internet. Here's a 2017 variation, though:

    It is a shame that such a beautiful city like Paris is wasted on such lifeless, vapid, xenophobic malcontents like Parisians.

    https://thaclick2pick.com/2017/03/25/shake-it-up/
     
  80. @That Would Be Telling
    @Dr. X

    A lot of what you're saying is correct, but I see a huge warning sign in what you quoted, see the added emphasis:


    Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.
     
    That's of course utter garbage, like in so many other STEM fields, or just reading using phonics, the "drill and kill" rote memorization that's been effectively attacked since 1930 (publication of the first Dick and Jane and Their Running Dog Spot basal reader) is absolutely essential to mastering the field, and also in weeding out people who don't have what it takes to become a doctor (both also requires shape rotation ability).

    That said, it appears for one reason or another the plot was lost, this is the professor using his own method and grading on that seeing students fail. I note admissions gimmicking could also be a factor. In general, while a good lecturer helps a lot, organic chemistry still just requires a lot of hard work, hitting a good textbook, doing your problem sets, and of course being able to perform in an exam without cheating. There's no royal road to it any more than to having the foundational geometry skills and knowledge that are also required.

    Replies: @Wilkey

    That’s of course utter garbage, like in so many other STEM fields, or just reading using phonics, the “drill and kill” rote memorization that’s been effectively attacked since 1930 (publication of the first Dick and Jane and Their Running Dog Spot basal reader) is absolutely essential to mastering the field

    Rote memorization of basic knowledge frees up your mind to work on higher order problems. Life without it would be like having to consciously think to breathe.

  81. @Recently Based
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    This isn't my experience at all. (If you consider software a technical field)

    If anything, I've observed a mild positive correlation between hotness and programming talent in women.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Emil Nikola Richard

    All you have to do to convert my experience to yours is rewrite the standards of judging smartness and hotness. : )

  82. @Paleo Liberal
    @That Would Be Telling

    I think quite a bit of it has to do with the feminization of higher education.

    Asian women slightly outnumber Asian men in college.
    White woken greatly outnumber white men.
    Black women overwhelmingly outnumber black men. I’ve taught in several places where every black male student I had was African, Caribbean or on a sports team. And that was in the 1990s. It’s worse now.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    The ratio of females to males among those awarded bachelor’s degrees in 2018 was 1.2:1 for Orientals and East Indians, 1.3:1 for whites, 1.54:1 for hispanics, and 1.78:1 for blacks. The size of birth cohorts has undulated up and down since the war, not increasing on balance. The number of degrees awarded has seen secular increase for both men and women, but grown faster for the latter than for the former. Higher education is salient for sorting larger and larger shares of the labor market, but this is a less salient phenomenon for men, who dominate skilled trades.

    You can sort baccalaureate degrees in a course taxonomy by subject. Those taxa for which degrees awarded exceeded 1,000 are listed below, along with the ratio of men to women in each.

    Engineering technologies and engineering-related: 6.70
    Transportation and materials moving: 6.67
    Computer and information sciences: 4.00
    Engineering: 3.50
    Theology and religious vocations: 2.26
    Philosophy and religious studies: 1.62
    Physical sciences and science technologies: 1.50
    History: 1.46
    Mathematics and statistics: 1.36
    Communications technologies: 1.28
    Business: 1.13
    Architecture and related services: 1.12
    Homeland security, law enforcement, and firefighting: 1.10
    Parks, recreation, leisure, and fitness studies: 1.05
    Social sciences: 0.93
    Agriculture and natural resources: 0.86
    All fields, total : 0.74
    Visual and performing arts: 0.63
    Biological and biomedical sciences: 0.61
    Liberal arts and sciences, general studies, and: 0.56
    Communication, journalism, and related programs: 0.53
    Multi/interdisciplinary studies: 0.51
    Legal professions and studies: 0.46
    Foreign languages, literatures, and linguistics: 0.45
    English language and literature/letters: 0.41
    Area, ethnic, cultural, gender, and group studies: 0.38
    Psychology: 0.27
    Education: 0.22
    Public administration and social services: 0.21
    Health professions and related programs: 0.18
    Family and consumer sciences/human sciences: 0.14

    NB, “Public administration and social services” usually refers to social work; ‘health professions’ usually refers to nursing.

  83. Wait until someone does this analysis for underrepresented racial minorities.

  84. @Art Deco
    @anonymous

    It was Michael Kinsley, around about 1984. He said, "youth is wasted on the young and California is wasted on Californians".

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It was Michael Kinsley, around about 1984. He said, “youth is wasted on the young and California is wasted on Californians”.

    He was quoting a line from the 1960 Sammy Cahn-Jimmy Van Heusen classic “The Second Time Around”, itself a version of Shaw’s “youth is wasted on children”. I swear I’ve heard “Paris is wasted on the French” in real life, but the sentence isn’t found on the Internet. Here’s a 2017 variation, though:

    It is a shame that such a beautiful city like Paris is wasted on such lifeless, vapid, xenophobic malcontents like Parisians.

    https://thaclick2pick.com/2017/03/25/shake-it-up/

  85. @Hypnotoad666
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Sachs is great. Politically, he's a peacenik liberal who does most of his work on development economics and reducing world poverty. But he's own of those people who is totally dedicated to intellectual honesty and gives zero f***s about the prevailing narrative. You can also find clips of him going off on how Covid was obviously cooked up in the Wuhan lab, duh.

    Replies: @Thomm, @Loyalty Over IQ Worship, @Bill Jones

    You can also find clips of him going off on how Covid was obviously cooked up in the Wuhan lab, duh.

    Yep. Well, Dean Koontz predicted that in 1981 in a novel.

    But what about L Ron Unzzard claiming that Covid was a bioweapon attack by the US against China? That is mutually exclusive with the Wuhan Lab view.

    Ron Unz claims that Dr. Sachs agrees with him, but evidence to support this assertion has not appeared.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Thomm

    You might read this.


    Jeffrey Sachs Presents Evidence of Possible Lab Origin of Covid-19
    An article in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences calls for an independent investigation of information held by U.S.-based institutions that could shed light on the origins of Covid.
     
    https://theintercept.com/2022/05/19/covid-lab-leak-evidence-jeffrey-sachs/
  86. @Hypnotoad666
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Sachs is great. Politically, he's a peacenik liberal who does most of his work on development economics and reducing world poverty. But he's own of those people who is totally dedicated to intellectual honesty and gives zero f***s about the prevailing narrative. You can also find clips of him going off on how Covid was obviously cooked up in the Wuhan lab, duh.

    Replies: @Thomm, @Loyalty Over IQ Worship, @Bill Jones

    I’ve noticed Jeffrey Sachs tells the truth. He may be that rare bird, the Honest Liberal.

    He was involved in the program to help Russia transform its economy back in the early 90s, but he said it went off the rails with other people taking over and that they did damage. He also called out Obama for using the CIA to overthrow the Syrian gov’t.

  87. @Achmed E. Newman
    After the basic Econ 101 stuff - S&D, elasticity, etc., Economics is such a bullshit field that who knows if anyone's good at it or not?

    Hell, nominate a Haitian Voodoo Doctor - I'll vote for him.

    Replies: @Mark G., @Glaivester

    That’s why there is no Nobel Prize in Economics.

    There is a Swedish Central Bank Prize that pretends to be a Nobel Prize, though.

  88. @Redneck farmer
    @Dr. X

    But when have physicians ever had to solve a problem quickly?

    Replies: @Sidewalk Meanderings

    When they work in the emergency room.

  89. @Known Fact
    @Nicholas Stix

    I wonder if the name change has something to do with Stony Brook's ambitions -- or delusions of grandeur -- for its basketball program and someday even football. Or as one of the top SUNY schools they just do not want to be associated with SUNY-Bumfuck or SUNY-Jibippsville or bear the label of "branch campus."

    It really is odd that a major state like NY does not have one big flagship NY State U -- geez, even Connecticut has UConn. It does have Syracuse but that's private. Yes much of NY state is sleepy and rural but no more so than midwestern states with major universities out in their boonies -- which is where I'd want my kids to go

    One byproduct of all this is that college sports are basically ignored in the NY metro area -- it's sports mad but only for the pros

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Cornell is sort of kind of the University of New York.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Steve Sailer

    Cornell is a private institution. It runs some 'statutory colleges' for the state under contract, but these are a small fraction of its total enrollment. To the extent the state has a flagship, it's SUNY Buffalo (not to be confused with Buffalo State College).

    , @Known Fact
    @Steve Sailer

    As Art Deco points out:

    From the school's website: Cornell is unique: Although it's an Ivy League university, chartered as a private institution, it includes undergraduate colleges and schools that receive some funding from New York State. The state subsidy results in lower tuition for students who have New York State residency and are enrolled in these colleges or schools. (Most significantly ag and life sciences, I think)

    At 21,000 Cornell's enrollment is dwarfed by SUNY-Buffalo (30,000), Columbia (30,000) and NYU (a surprising 50,000). SUNY total is 375,000 but it's so scattered and fractured -- what a campus that would be!

  90. @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    I'm guessing Jeffrey Sachs didn't get his job through affirmative action. It's so good to hear men speak simple, obvious truths. So shameful when they play dumb.

    Here he is on Nordstrom. He's saying what everyone already knows:

    https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1577136151416037376

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave

    Here is an analysis by a guy who seems to have a long obsession with analyzing flight paths of US military aircraft.

    His analysis sounds suggestive to me: anybody known anything about this?

    • Replies: @Loyalty Over IQ Worship
    @PhysicistDave

    Oh, but when I look at the About section, the guys does seem connected to a lot of Bible prophesy stuff. He may or may not be accurate on this.

    But Jeffrey Sachs mentioned there was direct radar evidence of US military helicopters circling over this area. World opinion is that the US did it.

    , @Mark G.
    @PhysicistDave

    The U.S. government is likely directly or indirectly involved in the Nord Stream sabotage. I work for the military and, as part of my job, just completed an online course titled "Preparing DoD Budgets". The course materials were dated February 2022 so are about 8 months old. One thing I found interesting in the course materials was it was stated the focus of the DoD for fy 2022 was to "deter Russian aggression". Those were the exact words. The Russian invasion of the Ukraine began near the end of the month on 2/24 so it appears the DoD was focusing in on Russia before that happened.

    I think it is possible that the U.S. government not only expected the invasion but encouraged it by talking about the Ukraine joining NATO and having Zelensky suggest the Ukraine might develop nuclear weapons. They did this to goad Russia into a war.

    I think this was done because, after twenty years of no major terrorist attacks after 9/11, it was no longer plausible to claim radical Islam was a major threat to the U.S. A plausible threat is needed to justify the continued 700-billion-dollar yearly DoD budget. The military-industrial complex makes a lot of money from that and they don't want the gravy train to end. It was decided that making Putin the new Hitler would be a good replacement. Dropping radical Islam as the big threat meant the Afghanistan war served no further function so it could be dropped and it was.

    In addition to this, I'm sure the DoD is aware of the increasingly dire financial situation the U.S. government is heading into which will lead to a struggle between all the various parts of government for a piece of a diminishing pie. With the Boomers retiring, it is estimated that by 2032 the costs of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, military and civilian pensions will equal 100% of tax revenue. On top of this, we won't be able to keep interest rates near zero since that is inflationary. If you assume a normal 5% interest rate, that is 2 trillion dollars a year just in interest on the forty trillion-dollar debt we will have by 2032. In spite of their efforts, I think the DoD will lose this battle on who gets funding and take big budget cuts and this will be followed by a return to a noninterventionist foreign policy. We will not be thinking about a regional war on the other side of the planet in the near future.

  91. @PhysicistDave
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Here is an analysis by a guy who seems to have a long obsession with analyzing flight paths of US military aircraft.

    His analysis sounds suggestive to me: anybody known anything about this?

    Replies: @Loyalty Over IQ Worship, @Mark G.

    Oh, but when I look at the About section, the guys does seem connected to a lot of Bible prophesy stuff. He may or may not be accurate on this.

    But Jeffrey Sachs mentioned there was direct radar evidence of US military helicopters circling over this area. World opinion is that the US did it.

  92. @Paleo Liberal
    @Known Fact

    U Wisconsin Milwaukee, tired of being the #2 campus in the UW system, wants to rename the school as Wisconsin State.

    The problem is, the flagship campus in Madison allows good students from the other UW colleges, as well as some of the tech colleges, to automatically transfer to the flagship campus in Madison for their junior and senior years. Not sure if UW Milwaukee students would lose that if it became Wisconsin State.

    The transfer policy is due to two problems.

    First, for financial reasons, Wisconsin takes a large number of wealthy out of state and foreign students. This transfer policy at least gives more local kids the opportunity to graduate with a UW Madison degree.

    Second, about half of the students who start as freshmen leave by the end of their sophomore year. Some transfer to other schools, but a very large number drink themselves out of college. There is an extremely serious alcohol problem. The transfer policy allows these students to be replaced by students who may not be as rich (some did a tech college) or didn’t have the ACT scores or HS grades but who proved themselves to be serious students. Replace your drunkards with middle class Sconnies.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Anonymous

    First, for financial reasons, Wisconsin takes a large number of wealthy out of state and foreign students.

    Should American universities be allowed to enroll foreigners?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    Should American universities be allowed to enroll foreigners?

    Have tri-quarterly auctions of educational visas and a secondary exchange where unsused time on educational visas can be purchased. The visas could be used to import students, teachers, and dependents thereof for discrete periods of time. The number auctioned each year would be derived from the number of verified departures over the previous half-dozen years, so the stock of foreigners in the country on educational visas would be roughly constant. Amend the immigration law to debar the grant of citizenship to the children of those on educational visas. Add also a requirement that anyone over the age of 14 is debarred from entry until they have passed a proficiency test in English, written and oral.

    They want to admit foreigners, make them pay for the privilege.

  93. @Tono-Bungay
    One question for a society that insists that women prepare for careers as well as men: To what extent will women's higher education be wasted -- from society's point of view -- if they drop out of the work force, fully or partly, in order to be with their eventual children? Educating doctors, for example, is amazingly expensive, and admission to medical school is extremely limited. Are there studies that look at who retires early, who chooses part-time work etc.? Is the investment in female doctors being rewarded? Or does it appear upon examination like a vanity project?

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @puttheforkdown, @Graveldips

    I have read that the return on investment for the average female MD is about 2/3 of a man’s ROI. Fewer hours per week, fewer years on the job.

  94. Sailer wrote:

    They just announced the physics Nobel and it went to three white men, Alain Aspect, John Clauser and Anton Zeilinger, for work involving entangled photons that I’d never understand in a million years.

    Well, I do understand it: I wrote a term paper on the subject almost fifty years ago, and I have been doing research on the subject off and on for many years.

    And, Steve, I think I can show that you too can understand it.

    Here’s the deal:

    You ask a series of Yes/No questions to the three possible pairs formed out of three people: Alice, Bob, and Charlie.

    Let’s say that, doing this again and again, Alice and Bob consistently give different answers 25 % of the time.

    And similarly, Bob and Charlie give different answers 25 % of the time.

    A bit of thought shows that then when you do this with Alice and Charlie they will disagree at most 50 % of the time: if Alice and Charlie disagree, it must be be that one of them disagrees with Bob — if they both agreed with Bob, of course they would agree with each other.

    That is, they can only disagree if at least one disagrees with Bob. Conceivably, the total number of times that either Alice or Charlie disagrees with Bob could be as high as 25 % plus 25% = 50 %, so that is the most that Alice and Charlie can disagree.

    Of course, this possible 50 % Alice-Charlie disagreement is only an upper bound: on occasions when they both happen to disagree with Bob, they will of course agree with each other.

    A trivial problem in grade-school arithmetic.

    Now, of course, if Alice and Bob are secretly colluding to disagree with each other, then when you run the test with them they can arrange to disagree more than 50 %, say 75 %.

    That is Bell’s theorem.

    That is all there is.

    In the actual experiments, the questions asked are the polarizations of quanta of light (photons): conceptually, it is just a matter of using a lens from a pair of Polaroid sunglasses. And the different participants — Alice, Bob, and Charlie — correspond to different angles at which you hold the lenses.

    The numbers I have used are actual numbers predicted for this experiment by quantum mechanics: Alice holds her lens at 0 degrees, Bob holds his at 30 degrees, and Charlies holds his at 60 degrees.

    Quantum mechanics predicts the numbers I have given above: 25 %, 25 %, and 75 %.

    Which means that Alice is colluding with Charlie.

    The experiments confirm the predictions of quantum mechanics.

    But the experiments can be arranged so that Alice’s and Charlie’s collusion would require communication faster than the speed of light.

    Which is supposed to be impossible according to relativity.

    Hence, Einstein’s “spooky action at a distance.”

    The underlying physics really is just as simple as I have just described.

    Now, carrying out the actual experiments requires a great deal of cleverness — it is impossible for example to make sure you pick up every single photon. And no polarizing lens is perfect: some photons will get through that should not get through and some will be absorbed that should not be absorbed. Also, it takes a lot of work to make sure things happen in a way that the collusion would require faster-than-light communication.

    So, I will stand up for these guys winning the Nobel: they richly deserve it. Also, this is a field of research that was not taken seriously by most physicists when Clauser and Aspect got into it (well, I took it seriously, but not most of my professors), although it is now recognized as seminal for fields like quantum cryptography and quantum computation. This is the sort of research that the Nobel should celebrate.

    The only sad thing is that John Bell, who worked out this incredibly simple idea — simple except that no one had seen it for forty years! — died tragically young and so did not win the prize.

    So, everyone should be asking me: “But, Dave, how can this possibly happen?”

    Well, a lot of us physicists have some vague ideas, but no one has really made them work. My own shibboleth is the “relativity of stochasticity”: hey, maybe someday I can work out the details!

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @PhysicistDave

    Thanks for the explanation.

    I remember reading about the experiment in “New Scientist” shortly after it was performed. At the time it was seen as sort of an interesting novelty.

  95. The reason why these old White males keep winning all the Nobel prizes is because Nobel prizes award work done decades ago, back when science was pale and male.

    On the other hand consider the Fields medal which is awarded to mathematicians under 40 years of age.

    From 2010 onwards, 16 have won the prize, out of which 7 are non-white( 1 Kurd, 1 Iranian, 2 Indians, 1 Chinese-Vietnamese, 1 Korean, 1 brown Brazilian).

    The last time a White native-born American won the Fields medal was in 1998.

  96. @PhysicistDave
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Here is an analysis by a guy who seems to have a long obsession with analyzing flight paths of US military aircraft.

    His analysis sounds suggestive to me: anybody known anything about this?

    Replies: @Loyalty Over IQ Worship, @Mark G.

    The U.S. government is likely directly or indirectly involved in the Nord Stream sabotage. I work for the military and, as part of my job, just completed an online course titled “Preparing DoD Budgets”. The course materials were dated February 2022 so are about 8 months old. One thing I found interesting in the course materials was it was stated the focus of the DoD for fy 2022 was to “deter Russian aggression”. Those were the exact words. The Russian invasion of the Ukraine began near the end of the month on 2/24 so it appears the DoD was focusing in on Russia before that happened.

    I think it is possible that the U.S. government not only expected the invasion but encouraged it by talking about the Ukraine joining NATO and having Zelensky suggest the Ukraine might develop nuclear weapons. They did this to goad Russia into a war.

    I think this was done because, after twenty years of no major terrorist attacks after 9/11, it was no longer plausible to claim radical Islam was a major threat to the U.S. A plausible threat is needed to justify the continued 700-billion-dollar yearly DoD budget. The military-industrial complex makes a lot of money from that and they don’t want the gravy train to end. It was decided that making Putin the new Hitler would be a good replacement. Dropping radical Islam as the big threat meant the Afghanistan war served no further function so it could be dropped and it was.

    In addition to this, I’m sure the DoD is aware of the increasingly dire financial situation the U.S. government is heading into which will lead to a struggle between all the various parts of government for a piece of a diminishing pie. With the Boomers retiring, it is estimated that by 2032 the costs of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, military and civilian pensions will equal 100% of tax revenue. On top of this, we won’t be able to keep interest rates near zero since that is inflationary. If you assume a normal 5% interest rate, that is 2 trillion dollars a year just in interest on the forty trillion-dollar debt we will have by 2032. In spite of their efforts, I think the DoD will lose this battle on who gets funding and take big budget cuts and this will be followed by a return to a noninterventionist foreign policy. We will not be thinking about a regional war on the other side of the planet in the near future.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  97. @PhysicistDave
    Sailer wrote:

    They just announced the physics Nobel and it went to three white men, Alain Aspect, John Clauser and Anton Zeilinger, for work involving entangled photons that I’d never understand in a million years.
     
    Well, I do understand it: I wrote a term paper on the subject almost fifty years ago, and I have been doing research on the subject off and on for many years.

    And, Steve, I think I can show that you too can understand it.

    Here's the deal:

    You ask a series of Yes/No questions to the three possible pairs formed out of three people: Alice, Bob, and Charlie.

    Let's say that, doing this again and again, Alice and Bob consistently give different answers 25 % of the time.

    And similarly, Bob and Charlie give different answers 25 % of the time.

    A bit of thought shows that then when you do this with Alice and Charlie they will disagree at most 50 % of the time: if Alice and Charlie disagree, it must be be that one of them disagrees with Bob -- if they both agreed with Bob, of course they would agree with each other.

    That is, they can only disagree if at least one disagrees with Bob. Conceivably, the total number of times that either Alice or Charlie disagrees with Bob could be as high as 25 % plus 25% = 50 %, so that is the most that Alice and Charlie can disagree.

    Of course, this possible 50 % Alice-Charlie disagreement is only an upper bound: on occasions when they both happen to disagree with Bob, they will of course agree with each other.

    A trivial problem in grade-school arithmetic.

    Now, of course, if Alice and Bob are secretly colluding to disagree with each other, then when you run the test with them they can arrange to disagree more than 50 %, say 75 %.

    That is Bell's theorem.

    That is all there is.

    In the actual experiments, the questions asked are the polarizations of quanta of light (photons): conceptually, it is just a matter of using a lens from a pair of Polaroid sunglasses. And the different participants -- Alice, Bob, and Charlie -- correspond to different angles at which you hold the lenses.

    The numbers I have used are actual numbers predicted for this experiment by quantum mechanics: Alice holds her lens at 0 degrees, Bob holds his at 30 degrees, and Charlies holds his at 60 degrees.

    Quantum mechanics predicts the numbers I have given above: 25 %, 25 %, and 75 %.

    Which means that Alice is colluding with Charlie.

    The experiments confirm the predictions of quantum mechanics.

    But the experiments can be arranged so that Alice's and Charlie's collusion would require communication faster than the speed of light.

    Which is supposed to be impossible according to relativity.

    Hence, Einstein's "spooky action at a distance."

    The underlying physics really is just as simple as I have just described.

    Now, carrying out the actual experiments requires a great deal of cleverness -- it is impossible for example to make sure you pick up every single photon. And no polarizing lens is perfect: some photons will get through that should not get through and some will be absorbed that should not be absorbed. Also, it takes a lot of work to make sure things happen in a way that the collusion would require faster-than-light communication.

    So, I will stand up for these guys winning the Nobel: they richly deserve it. Also, this is a field of research that was not taken seriously by most physicists when Clauser and Aspect got into it (well, I took it seriously, but not most of my professors), although it is now recognized as seminal for fields like quantum cryptography and quantum computation. This is the sort of research that the Nobel should celebrate.

    The only sad thing is that John Bell, who worked out this incredibly simple idea -- simple except that no one had seen it for forty years! -- died tragically young and so did not win the prize.

    So, everyone should be asking me: "But, Dave, how can this possibly happen?"

    Well, a lot of us physicists have some vague ideas, but no one has really made them work. My own shibboleth is the "relativity of stochasticity": hey, maybe someday I can work out the details!

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    Thanks for the explanation.

    I remember reading about the experiment in “New Scientist” shortly after it was performed. At the time it was seen as sort of an interesting novelty.

  98. @Steve Sailer
    @Known Fact

    Cornell is sort of kind of the University of New York.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Known Fact

    Cornell is a private institution. It runs some ‘statutory colleges’ for the state under contract, but these are a small fraction of its total enrollment. To the extent the state has a flagship, it’s SUNY Buffalo (not to be confused with Buffalo State College).

  99. @Anonymous
    @Paleo Liberal


    First, for financial reasons, Wisconsin takes a large number of wealthy out of state and foreign students.
     
    Should American universities be allowed to enroll foreigners?

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Should American universities be allowed to enroll foreigners?

    Have tri-quarterly auctions of educational visas and a secondary exchange where unsused time on educational visas can be purchased. The visas could be used to import students, teachers, and dependents thereof for discrete periods of time. The number auctioned each year would be derived from the number of verified departures over the previous half-dozen years, so the stock of foreigners in the country on educational visas would be roughly constant. Amend the immigration law to debar the grant of citizenship to the children of those on educational visas. Add also a requirement that anyone over the age of 14 is debarred from entry until they have passed a proficiency test in English, written and oral.

    They want to admit foreigners, make them pay for the privilege.

  100. @Hypnotoad666
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Sachs is great. Politically, he's a peacenik liberal who does most of his work on development economics and reducing world poverty. But he's own of those people who is totally dedicated to intellectual honesty and gives zero f***s about the prevailing narrative. You can also find clips of him going off on how Covid was obviously cooked up in the Wuhan lab, duh.

    Replies: @Thomm, @Loyalty Over IQ Worship, @Bill Jones

    You might want to read up on his part of the fucking over of Russia in the ’90’s .

  101. @Steve Sailer
    @Known Fact

    Cornell is sort of kind of the University of New York.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Known Fact

    As Art Deco points out:

    From the school’s website: Cornell is unique: Although it’s an Ivy League university, chartered as a private institution, it includes undergraduate colleges and schools that receive some funding from New York State. The state subsidy results in lower tuition for students who have New York State residency and are enrolled in these colleges or schools. (Most significantly ag and life sciences, I think)

    At 21,000 Cornell’s enrollment is dwarfed by SUNY-Buffalo (30,000), Columbia (30,000) and NYU (a surprising 50,000). SUNY total is 375,000 but it’s so scattered and fractured — what a campus that would be!

  102. @Paleo Liberal
    @Dr. X

    NYU has been a pre-med factory for many decades. Even in the days when it was a third or fourth or fifth tier school it was still a pre-med factory. NYU has had a dean of pre-meds for many decades. In the old days I knew several of the gentlemen who had that position.

    They start with about 600-700 freshman pre-meds every year. That is whittled down to about 350 after the first year, which includes intro chemistry. At least 1/3 of those are weeded out in first semester organic. Many of the remaining ones are weeded out in second semester organic. Still others are weeded out in their junior and senior year, perhaps by P Chem or biochem or some advanced bio or physics class.

    But the remaining pre-meds generally do very well in med school applications. That is why so many pre-meds go to NYU. They all think they will be one of the remaining students, when in fact they probably won’t. A certain number of students would have been better off going to State U, where they would still be one of the better students.

    That has been the dance for decades. Weed out too few and NYU doesn’t have the shining percentage of acceptances. Weed out too many and students who normally would have gotten into med school don’t get a chance, which means fewer total admissions.

    Somehow the balance was thrown off. Was it the fault of the professor, or the students, or COVID restrictions? Or some combination of all three?

    Well, the school can’t fire COVID. The school doesn’t want to destroy all hopes for their students. An adjunct professor can be fired.

    And this is something I saw more than I wanted to when I was in academia in the 1980s and 1990s. Students unhappy about their grades can get adjunct or new, non-tenured professors fired. Especially pre-med students.

    Replies: @Shale boi

    Premeds don’t take p-chem.

    Biochem is relatively descriptive. Yes, there’s chemicals in there, but a lot of it is a typical descriptive life science with essay question testss that you have to write long hand-cramping passages on.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Shale boi

    Premeds don’t take p-chem.

    There isn't a standard pre-med degree.

    Technically a pre-med can actually be a chemistry degree.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @shale boi

  103. @Thomm
    @Hypnotoad666


    You can also find clips of him going off on how Covid was obviously cooked up in the Wuhan lab, duh.
     
    Yep. Well, Dean Koontz predicted that in 1981 in a novel.

    But what about L Ron Unzzard claiming that Covid was a bioweapon attack by the US against China? That is mutually exclusive with the Wuhan Lab view.

    Ron Unz claims that Dr. Sachs agrees with him, but evidence to support this assertion has not appeared.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    You might read this.

    Jeffrey Sachs Presents Evidence of Possible Lab Origin of Covid-19
    An article in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences calls for an independent investigation of information held by U.S.-based institutions that could shed light on the origins of Covid.

    https://theintercept.com/2022/05/19/covid-lab-leak-evidence-jeffrey-sachs/

  104. @Shale boi
    @Paleo Liberal

    Premeds don't take p-chem.

    Biochem is relatively descriptive. Yes, there's chemicals in there, but a lot of it is a typical descriptive life science with essay question testss that you have to write long hand-cramping passages on.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Premeds don’t take p-chem.

    There isn’t a standard pre-med degree.

    Technically a pre-med can actually be a chemistry degree.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @John Johnson

    Agreed. I know several current med students who were biochemistry majors and took p chem. (U Wisconsin has one of the top biochemistry departments in the country so quite a few pre-meds major in biochemistry)

    I know an MD/PhD who majored in physics as an undergraduate.

    , @shale boi
    @John Johnson

    In general, pedants, pre-meds don't take p-chem. Of course some do. Heck, some take ancient Greek. But it's not a standard course, except for the 10% or so that are chem majors (who take it for their major, not for premed purposes).

    I was a chemistry major (UG) and took the MCATs. I was also a chem grad student at a major medical feeder undergrad program and TAed general chem and briefly orgo.

    Yes, of course, some med students come from chemistry, but it is a definite minority. If you look at formal "premed" programs (agreed, many schools don't have them), you'll find that they don't have p-chem as a part of the degree. For instance Georgetown.

    Also, P-chem IS NOT ON THE MCAT. Orgo is!!! Duh. By and large med school students are bio majors undergrad if they don't have the option of a formal premed program (e.g. at Georgetown).

    Talked to my sister who went to a top 25 med school, and then a top residency program (general internal medicine, where she did the extra year as "top resident") and then taught at NU and Chicago med schools. She estimates less than 10% of ACCEPTED med school students have taken a p-chem course and that's because they were chem majors.

  105. @John Johnson
    @Shale boi

    Premeds don’t take p-chem.

    There isn't a standard pre-med degree.

    Technically a pre-med can actually be a chemistry degree.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @shale boi

    Agreed. I know several current med students who were biochemistry majors and took p chem. (U Wisconsin has one of the top biochemistry departments in the country so quite a few pre-meds major in biochemistry)

    I know an MD/PhD who majored in physics as an undergraduate.

  106. @ic1000
    Another triumph for the man whose quips represent the Spirit Of The Age (2019, pg. 19): "The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination… The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination."

    However much Boston University added to Jack Dorsey's $10 million, it was more than worth it.

    Women make up 60% of all U.S. college students. So the Academies are still at the beginning of their Journeys to Equity.

    Replies: @Richard B

    So the Academies are still at the beginning of their Journeys to Equity.

    But near the end of their Journey to Cultural Impoverishment and Societal Collapse.

    Happily, this will more than sabotage their journey to equity. So there’s that.

    No surprise there though, since the Woke university today, a monument to intellectual backwardness, doesn’t require them to even answer important questions and solve problems, let alone engage in the far more difficult task of asking questions and posing problems. So they lack the required habit of mind to sustain their evil little empire and the ill-gotten booty that came with it.

    No wonder they can’t shut up about White Man Bad (as if that’ll make them smart). Then again, being a mob of crazy dumbsh*ts they’re not very subtle at covering their own tracks. Too late now that anyone who cares to look, or can bare to look, can see.

  107. @Anon
    OT: California Gov. Gavin Newsom signs bill decriminalizing jaywalking.

    I suppose the idea is, "Vote for me! Me Big Democrat! I give you great gifts. I let you jaywalk!"

    If I were someone who drove a lot, I'd be irate, since this makes the roads more dangerous. No one wants some big dumb jogger flying through their windshield. This will end up with a lot of more Newsom's black constituents getting killed by drivers. The whole reason jaywalking laws exist is to protect pedestrians from cars. I can just see blacks staggering away from a bar at night and getting run over. Black skin means you're not as visible in shade or at night as a white person is.

    https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxnews.com/us/california-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16648958281963&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fus%2Fcalifornia-gov-gavin-newsom-signs-bill-decriminalizing-jaywalking

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Reg Cæsar, @anonymous, @Quidnunc

    Decriminalization is bad for another reason. When police notice blacks stepping into stopped traffic to converse with auto occupants, they suspect that the blacks are selling drugs but can’t immediately prove it. So the police arrest the blacks for jaywalking while they investigate further. Now these strolls into traffic will be difficult to stop.

  108. @Known Fact
    @Reg Cæsar

    Cornell does have a weird Ivy League/Moo U State split personality. Our first few dogs had a great vet from Cornell. Now as far as Rutgers, one celebrity grad who instantly comes to mind is Mr. Magoo.

    Mizzou doubled as flagship and Moo U. Some of the best rock concerts were held at the livestock pavilion

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Mizzou doubled as flagship and Moo U.

    Same for Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Ohio State.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Hibernian

    Moo U. is very apt for U Wisconsin’s flagship campus.

    Right after getting the land grant after the war, they hired some experts on dairy cattle. Their continued research is what made Wisconsin “America’s Dairyland”.

    To be fair, California has fewer dairy farms but more head of dairy cows. More factory farms. Larger state. Also, Wisconsin has more cranberry production than Mass. Larger state.

  109. @Hibernian
    @Known Fact


    Mizzou doubled as flagship and Moo U.
     
    Same for Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Ohio State.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    Moo U. is very apt for U Wisconsin’s flagship campus.

    Right after getting the land grant after the war, they hired some experts on dairy cattle. Their continued research is what made Wisconsin “America’s Dairyland”.

    To be fair, California has fewer dairy farms but more head of dairy cows. More factory farms. Larger state. Also, Wisconsin has more cranberry production than Mass. Larger state.

  110. @George
    @Dr. X

    A possibility is the pandemic cut off the global supply of students, with a reduced talent pool NYU admitted less spectacular students.

    NYC, and many places in the US, are less desirable. NYU was in part selling an New York City experience which is not depreciated.

    Foreign students may have less resources available to afford an NYU education.

    Foreign and domestic students may have over the past 2-3 years of pandemic and now Ukraine war craziness lost the habit of NYU education. Top tier students might have just figured out NYU was too expensive and complicated and found alternatives.

    Is it possible the qualifications for medical school are no longer relevant? The pandemic revealed that doctors really work for the CDC FDA, and the CDC FDA mostly make all the complicated decisions, so why do doctors need to demonstrate such a high level Organic Chemistry ability when they just need to understand what the vocabulary and terms mean.

    In summary, NYU has to deal with a smaller pool of talent so there are fewer extreme right hand of the bell curve students.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @That Would Be Telling, @President Xi

    Ok Dr. Lexus.

  111. @John Johnson
    @Shale boi

    Premeds don’t take p-chem.

    There isn't a standard pre-med degree.

    Technically a pre-med can actually be a chemistry degree.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @shale boi

    In general, pedants, pre-meds don’t take p-chem. Of course some do. Heck, some take ancient Greek. But it’s not a standard course, except for the 10% or so that are chem majors (who take it for their major, not for premed purposes).

    I was a chemistry major (UG) and took the MCATs. I was also a chem grad student at a major medical feeder undergrad program and TAed general chem and briefly orgo.

    Yes, of course, some med students come from chemistry, but it is a definite minority. If you look at formal “premed” programs (agreed, many schools don’t have them), you’ll find that they don’t have p-chem as a part of the degree. For instance Georgetown.

    Also, P-chem IS NOT ON THE MCAT. Orgo is!!! Duh. By and large med school students are bio majors undergrad if they don’t have the option of a formal premed program (e.g. at Georgetown).

    Talked to my sister who went to a top 25 med school, and then a top residency program (general internal medicine, where she did the extra year as “top resident”) and then taught at NU and Chicago med schools. She estimates less than 10% of ACCEPTED med school students have taken a p-chem course and that’s because they were chem majors.

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