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An ad from an American tractor company in 1921:
A tractor advertisement from 1921 reads: “Keep the boy in school—and let a Case Kerosene Tractor take his place in the field. You'll never regret either investment.” https://t.co/uotWCnKfmo pic.twitter.com/s4iCcWNLQK
— Human Progress (@HumanProgress) July 3, 2018
An ad from Mark Zuckerberg’s Cheap Labor lobby in 2016:
Imagine this: Crops rotting, farmers filing bankruptcy + produce prices skyrocketing #Trump365 pic.twitter.com/izuPIXKpUq
— FWD.us (@FWDus) September 4, 2016
Follow @steve_sailer
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feliz cuarto de julio, suckers!
I doubt whether Mark Zuckerberg or any of the other cheap labour enthusiasts have started hoarding food yet.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270001/distribution-of-gross-domestic-product-gdp-across-economic-sectors-in-the-us/Replies: @Precious, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
Is John Podhoretz retarded?
The poor man seems to think that the Great Depression in 1929 was triggered by restricting immigration in 1924…He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America….
I think he's aware of it, and doing his best to make sure they never experience one again.
Once upon a time a century back, some gentiles actually said "No--you can't come here" to a Jew. And Podhoretz is pissed about it. That kind of disobedience from the serfs should not be allowed.Replies: @PiltdownMan
Steve,
Are you sure the Zuck ad is real?
There is a typo “food storages” that I kind of doubt would pass an agency doing work at the level of Zuck-money.
The poor man seems to think that the Great Depression in 1929 was triggered by restricting immigration in 1924...He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America....Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon, @ThreeCranes, @Numinous, @Digital Samizdat, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
Of course, JPOD has plenty of rivals in the retard sweepstakes:
No, we’re just saying that people like you should be forced to make a choice: Either the USA or your home countries. After all, there was a time, one within living memory, when people were not allowed to be dual citizens…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk
I refer of course to our age-old enemy, the perfidious agents of Soviet Canuckistan.
Glad to see the crack squad of editors is on the job at FWD.us
Food storages……?
Are you sure the Zuck ad is real?
There is a typo "food storages" that I kind of doubt would pass an agency doing work at the level of Zuck-money.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous
It’s a blue checkmark Twitter account:
https://twitter.com/FWD_us/status/755108885749309440/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E772230201321205760&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2Fisteve%2F
Tweets by fwd_us
Or, if you’re Henry Ford, you put the kid in school and teach him to farm and operate a tractor there.
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2017/12/14/the-edison-institute
https://www.thehenryford.org/history-and-mission/educational-vision/
A stiff (or even mild) inflation in food prices will do wonders in reducing obesity rates and magically reduce our healthcare expense by at least half. Agriculture is 1% of GDP; Healthcare is 20%. We can completely stop producing all food in the country and be better off if we can reduce healthcare spending by 10%.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270001/distribution-of-gross-domestic-product-gdp-across-economic-sectors-in-the-us/
It is the processed chemically laden food that is responsible for the large rise in obesity rates, and those foods are dirt cheap, in part because they are subsidized by the government. In general, nutritious food is more expensive. Eliminating all food subsidies has a better shot at reducing obesity rates rather than inflation, although Venezuela has managed to show that massive widespread inflation is great for a national population reaching some impressive weight loss goals.Replies: @Anonymous, @The Anti-Gnostic
An acquaintance stated these price rises apparently started when Aldis started TV advertising.
But food prices are definitely on the upswing even at the Jewels.Replies: @PiltdownMan
And it would be wrong for our government to tell people that they can't spend their food stamp money (to which the recipients are legally "entitled") on junk food - that would be nanny statism. Archer Daniels agrees with the ghetto activists on that.Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Joe Stalin
The poor man seems to think that the Great Depression in 1929 was triggered by restricting immigration in 1924...He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America....Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon, @ThreeCranes, @Numinous, @Digital Samizdat, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
He might be aware. He just might not like it.
Remarkable – California has lost 68% of it’s farm workers (since when they don’t say), and yet I have detected no change in the prices of fruits, vegetables, and nuts.
FWD.us Twitter account appears to have about as much user interaction (likes, comments, and retweets) as Max Boot’s (virtually none) despite (supposedly) having 30,000 followers. Zuckerberg appears to be getting about as much return on his money as Jeb Bush got for the $100 million his patrons blew on his campaign.
The Center for Immigration Studies has only about half as many followers as FWD but far more activity.
The poor man seems to think that the Great Depression in 1929 was triggered by restricting immigration in 1924...He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America....Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon, @ThreeCranes, @Numinous, @Digital Samizdat, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
“He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America….”
I think he’s aware of it, and doing his best to make sure they never experience one again.
Something else for which to thank the USA’s anti-USA, Zionist fifth column.
This is a good illustration of what our moral superiors on the left really think of (immigrant) farm workers: they’re faceless interchangeable production units who become ‘human’ only when it’s expedient, i.e. when they can be pushed in the media as focal points for ‘compassionate’ leftist policies.
That tweet yesterday from actress Amanda Heard warning the Good People that they should take care of their nannies and gardeners really said it all. The limousine left in the USA have become accustomed to having servants who are easily distinguishable by their skin color and culture.
Robotics can build cars (weld, screw in bolts, apply adhesive glues), but can’t pick ripe fruits?
When the advances in robotics and A.I. truly come to fruition, we will need many less farm workers than we do now. Hell, a robot will probably be driving the combines in the fields if they are safe to drive 18-wheelers on the interstates.
https://youtu.be/OX9QZbsvRTs
Anecdote:
https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/california_labor_law/cheesecake-factory-found-liable-4-57-million-wage-theft-22942.html
This is California, and I’ll bet quite a few of those janitors were illegals. Plenty of the business community think foreign labor is cheap and pliable. But they are about to get an American AMLO if they don’t knock it off…
Still seems like a slap on the wrist when one considers the collossal damage to social capital wrought by mass immigration. Another reason why the Ag lobby shouldn't be getting its desired H-2C helot visas. Instead they need to be given aggressive enforcement of E-Verify.Replies: @Alden
I was amazed at the response, you’re not allowed to notice that illegal Mexicans are mostly nannies, cleaners and gardeners/landscapers
This is California, and I'll bet quite a few of those janitors were illegals. Plenty of the business community think foreign labor is cheap and pliable. But they are about to get an American AMLO if they don't knock it off...Replies: @Anon
Cont’d
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-wages-farm-labor-20180702-story.html
Still seems like a slap on the wrist when one considers the collossal damage to social capital wrought by mass immigration. Another reason why the Ag lobby shouldn’t be getting its desired H-2C helot visas. Instead they need to be given aggressive enforcement of E-Verify.
Oh my Gawd!
Without wage slaves from Meximala, farmers will literally have to pay fair wages and literally have to hire thousands of Americans. You and I will litterally have to pay 5 cents more for an apple!!!!!
A more likely alternative scenario:
We import another 10 million immigrants into California. The resulting diversion of water to the cities for these new Dreamers depletes what little water California farmers are still allowed to have, causing “crops rotting, farmers filing bankruptcy, and massive food storages”.
If US repeal ESA, CWA, NEPA, etc., and dam the Golden Gate, that will free up enough water to sale to Mexico, even.
The landfill would create over 500 sq. miles of lands to build housing on, that would lower housing cost, ease family formation, increase TFR. Millions of modern Arkies/Orkies would vote out people like Nancy Pelosi.
Farmland is rapidly being turned into nasty housing, industrial parks and business districts. Soon the metro areas will reach the eastern Sierra mountains and all the farm land will be gone.
Agriculture can bring in Mexicans and workers from other countries under the H-2A program. It’s like using illegals, except that they go back home after the season ends, and they get fair, but not high, pay and benefits, so they can’t be so easily exploited and intimidated. The whole program is monitored and auidted so we know what the hell is happening and have data on numbers and pay rates, which is useful for political decisions about the labor market and labor laws.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2a-temporary-agricultural-workers
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270001/distribution-of-gross-domestic-product-gdp-across-economic-sectors-in-the-us/Replies: @Precious, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
A stiff (or even mild) inflation in food prices will do wonders in reducing obesity rates and magically reduce our healthcare expense by at least half.
It is the processed chemically laden food that is responsible for the large rise in obesity rates, and those foods are dirt cheap, in part because they are subsidized by the government. In general, nutritious food is more expensive. Eliminating all food subsidies has a better shot at reducing obesity rates rather than inflation, although Venezuela has managed to show that massive widespread inflation is great for a national population reaching some impressive weight loss goals.
This is constantly trotted out. Chicken, tilapia, ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, cabbage, dried beans, collared greens, etc. are all cheap. Many low-income people--gym rats, surf rats, grad students, religious ascetics--manage to eat perfectly healthy diets. It's not poverty but ignorance or self-destructive habits that result in obesity.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Precious
Happy 4th everyone.
US Declaration of Independence labeled hate speech by Facebook bots
They hoard data.
I really think there is an opportunity for restrictionists to more closely brand Zuckerberg to Open Borders; right now, zuckerberg’s advocacy is costless to him.
For example, I think we should say “Zuckerberg-style immigration policy” instead of “open-borders”
It was effective in David Brat’s election (ad with zuck + cantor), the right doesn’t like zuckerberg because of liberal bias/diamond & silk and neither do the media (FB has hurt their business) or the democrats (russia, fake news). Matt Yglessias even wrote the case against facebook. Moreover, Zuckerberg doesn’t like the spotlight so it will be powerful if he backs down.
Until your post I was unaware that Dave Brat had used an ad linking Zuckerberg and Cantor. Obviously this ad mightily contributed to the demolishment of Cantor's political career and thereby launching his Wall Street shilling career.
At that time Zuck was relatively unknown. Imagine the much greater effectiveness in nowadays plastering his supercilious countenance in political attack ads. A joyful thing to contemplate!Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous
Exactly — it’s of course true, but Good People are not supposed to notice this, much less say anything about it publicly.
My reaction to this was a certain degree of sadness. A vanished America and our present day reality. But I should not worry. The constitution can trimmed to fit a nation of helots, wage slaves and the lot, all motivated by resentment. Tim
The Trump365.com (the website in the image of the tweet) is still under construction…it’s seems this Trump365 was an idea FWD.US came up with but then abandoned it after it failed to gain traction.
“Whites, blacks, Jews, and yellows are TOO GOOD for dirty, demeaning, and dangerous farm labor. Brown helots were born to pick our tomatoes and lettuce.”
Kerosene is passé. If only Case would come up with a Mexican-powered tractor!
Now, now. The Left’s egalitarianism is bona fide here. They don’t treat the rest of us any better!
Maybe Zuck hired dreamers to check his spelling.
When the advances in robotics and A.I. truly come to fruition, we will need many less farm workers than we do now. Hell, a robot will probably be driving the combines in the fields if they are safe to drive 18-wheelers on the interstates.Replies: @Anonymous, @Sleep, @Paul Jolliffe
Autonomous ore-hauling trucks are already used at mining sites around the world.
A reminder that farmers are people who engage in agriculture and do the bulk of the farm-work themselves and with their families. They do not hire/coerce other people to do the work for them. People who hire/coerce others to do farm-work are called plantation owners.
i'll mention that to all the guys in the Midwest who own contract-harvesting businesses, and spend hundreds of thousands of $ to own/maintain specialized combines & etc
There is a reason that you'd prefer to have your hernia operation done by a guy who specializes in that, and there's a reason for everything else we see.
By the way, Tom Wilkes, what is your background in real farm operations? Or are you another city boy with a typewriter?
Without low cost Facebook programmers, Facebook posts would go unread, just rotting away on the internet
Are you sure the Zuck ad is real?
There is a typo "food storages" that I kind of doubt would pass an agency doing work at the level of Zuck-money.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous
Not to mention that Trump365.com has a blank “Coming Soon” template– is Mark too cheap to buy a multi-year domain registration and, failing someone at his own Internet-services corporation being able to mock up a basic home page, just insert a redirect tag to any Koch/libertoid amnesty public-relations site instead?
We’ve fallen down a rabbit hole where history and morality have been turned on their heads.
Once upon a time (like, oh, 20 years ago) we celebrated those people who fought against the business interests demanding dirt cheap labor: 19th Century abolitionists and early 20th Century union organizers. Today all of the double-plus-good people know the cheap labor lobby is comprised of saints and their opponents are the villains.
Once upon a time we vilified those who violated national borders (colonialists, Nazis, Imperial Japan) and celebrated those who fought to defend them. Today we celebrate guys like AMLO who urge their citizens to violate our borders and demonize men, like Trump, who simply want to defend them.
We live in truly strange times.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270001/distribution-of-gross-domestic-product-gdp-across-economic-sectors-in-the-us/Replies: @Precious, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
We must definitely have food inflation; check the price on just potato chips at Aldis. A bag of chips is now $1.79. Even their Clancy’s cheese curls, which used to be their cheapest stuff, is now $1.49.
An acquaintance stated these price rises apparently started when Aldis started TV advertising.
But food prices are definitely on the upswing even at the Jewels.
Faced with losing low paid serfs, plantation owners have agreed that they are willing to lose Billions in order to avoid paying a fair wage to workers. “We will fight this even if we end up dead broke. We refuse to free our serfs.” said one plantation owner.
In 1900 38% of American workers were in agriculture. In 2012 it was 1.5%, a 96% decrease, so Forward is actually being modest!
OT: Did anyone know our US congress has a Wine Caucus? I sure didn’t. It’s got 145 members and representatives from all 50 states is on it. If our government had a Pot Caucus, I’m sure it would have close to 100% membership. Our wine growers must have the most perfect lobby in existence. At least we know from the membership list who all the alcoholics in congress are.
https://winecaucus-mikethompson.house.gov/
https://winecaucus-mikethompson.house.gov/about-the-wine-caucus/members
Reinforcing stereotypes, anyone?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/03/football/japan-belgium-russia-thank-you-locker-room-trnd/index.html
When the advances in robotics and A.I. truly come to fruition, we will need many less farm workers than we do now. Hell, a robot will probably be driving the combines in the fields if they are safe to drive 18-wheelers on the interstates.Replies: @Anonymous, @Sleep, @Paul Jolliffe
Some fruits are so delicate that even the most carefully crafted robotic hands will bruise or break them open. For the time being, only humans can provide the soft touch and steady grip needed to protect the berries and deliver them to market intact.
http://www.goodfruit.com/wp-content/uploads/mechanicalGrapeHarvest39674-100115tj-1b.jpg
http://airharvesters.com/en/
How freaking hard is it to search “(fruit name) harvester”?
But regardless, if there's a fruit "only humans" can pick and handle, that just means that's a fruit that we do not need very much of--a luxury good.
Not just agriculture this is generally true. If you are producing some good/service and can't find workers at the price you can pay... then you should go out of business. I.e. there is too much production of this good/service for demand. If it's something that people *really* need, then people will pay the going rate for their fellow citizens' labor to get it. It's called a "labor market" for a reason.
Importing labor is never necessary. Importing low skilled, "cheap labor" from a foreign tribe to do work you don't want to do--say picking cotton--is a short-sighted disaster. Importing low IQ, cheap, stoop labor from a foreign tribe--which will then proceed to breed inside your nation and dumb down your future--so that you can have your precious artesinal, free-range, organic strawberries is beyond parody and into sheer insanity.Replies: @Jack D
An acquaintance stated these price rises apparently started when Aldis started TV advertising.
But food prices are definitely on the upswing even at the Jewels.Replies: @PiltdownMan
There is almost nothing in a supermarket that costs less than a dollar these days.
There’s also quite a bit of “shrinkflation” that goes unnoticed, with quantities and weights of food items in packages being reduced imperceptibly, unless you actually read the label and remember that. say, a particular bag of chips used to have 8 oz. of chips rather than 7 oz.
The UK press seems to write about this trend every so often, but I’ve never seen anything about it in media over here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3037688/Shrinkflation-sneaky-firms-making-favourite-products-smaller-NOT-shrinking-price.html
Those 8 ounce cans of tomato paste are now 5 ounces so you have to buy 2 of the small cans for a standard recipe.
Inflation by Deflation.
OK, OK, that's not from the Mainstream Lyin' Press, but I hope you will consider Peak Stupidity part of the media now.
Oh well, there’s a critical shortage of truckers, so most of those crops were never going to make it to market anyway. I just don’t know how these problems could be resolved.
Same as the H1b scam; there are plenty of qualified tech peeps already in the country. They just won't work for half of what that job has traditionally paid, including not working 60+ hours a week without overtime pay, like the Hib's will do since they really don't have much of anything else to do, no family or many friends in this country.
One of the girls I knew in high school worked about 15 years in video production. She did the industrial videos for employee training. Company went out of business due to screwed up new managers. When she applied for similar jobs, they only offered about half of what she had been making. She said they wanted to hire somebody that actually knew what to do for the same wage as a recent college grad. She never went back and worked for the local community college, taxpayers will pay much better than the private sector these days....
Steve, here’s a Q&A with the Tiger Mom that might be of some interest:
Around 7:10: Chua says racism is way overused today. No shit, isn't it what we have been saying for years? She returns to this at 12:00, 18:20 (making a good point), and 22:50.
Around 9:00: Chua says it's not productive to assume 60 million voters are evil and immoral (no shit). Goldberg chimes in to say that akshually, since we're in a terrible moment and Trump is a wayciss... FACEPALM.
Around 10:00, Chua talks about market dominant minorities while conspicuously ommiting the one most relevant in the American context. At 10:20, she even states America never had a market dominant minority, but is now headed to have one called "coastal elites". The chutzpah...
Around 11:20, a funny and good description of the Left's loss of support from low class whites. At 12:00, Goldberg asks (kinda skeptically) if these people have actual justification for their grievances. She gives a good answer, taking about the perspective of a poor white student in an elite university (nothing the iSteve crowd has not seen by themselves), starting at around 13:00.
Around 14:20, some inane question by Goldberg about worrying if there would be a point where America would no longer attract immigrants. Chua doesn't believe it will come to be so because institutions, and jabs young people who went to throw the baby with the bathwater because said institutions are not perfect (15:20).
15:30: Goldberg asks if she sees young progressives trying to change the Constitution (what? Second Amendment anyone?).
19:10, someone asks for examples of successful outreaches to the working class whites (Trump, anyone?). She answers that normal interaction with different people (not exposure, which is what the Left usually does) makes people more open-minded. She cites the US military in the 50s as a good example. Not super-convincing, but OK.
Around 21:10, she describes her effort to make students in her classes not to assume disagreeing students are xenophobic racists. Not sure how successful she has been.
21:40, a woman asks her how does she teach empathy (!!!) to groups that have those Appalachian whites who don't understand how epigenetics affects minorities (go there an check, I shit you not).
23:20, Chua on #meetoo and how it fosters tribalism.
24;00, Goldberg asks why she is so sure the Constitution is stronger than Trumpism. She goes on about the uniqueness of the American Constitution and the rarity of birthright citizenship (forgetting it exists in all of Latin America, but I digress), and America is different for not being a country with a singular ethnic identity.
26:00, she sympathizes with the nativists, inviting the Left crowd to imagine how would the Chinese feel if they found that within 20 years China would be majority white.
In short: I think she knows things, but can't spell them fully.Replies: @Percy Gryce, @vinteuil
For example, I think we should say "Zuckerberg-style immigration policy" instead of "open-borders"
It was effective in David Brat's election (ad with zuck + cantor), the right doesn't like zuckerberg because of liberal bias/diamond & silk and neither do the media (FB has hurt their business) or the democrats (russia, fake news). Matt Yglessias even wrote the case against facebook. Moreover, Zuckerberg doesn't like the spotlight so it will be powerful if he backs down.Replies: @Dan Hayes
gman:
Until your post I was unaware that Dave Brat had used an ad linking Zuckerberg and Cantor. Obviously this ad mightily contributed to the demolishment of Cantor’s political career and thereby launching his Wall Street shilling career.
At that time Zuck was relatively unknown. Imagine the much greater effectiveness in nowadays plastering his supercilious countenance in political attack ads. A joyful thing to contemplate!
Once upon a time (like, oh, 20 years ago) we celebrated those people who fought against the business interests demanding dirt cheap labor: 19th Century abolitionists and early 20th Century union organizers. Today all of the double-plus-good people know the cheap labor lobby is comprised of saints and their opponents are the villains.
Once upon a time we vilified those who violated national borders (colonialists, Nazis, Imperial Japan) and celebrated those who fought to defend them. Today we celebrate guys like AMLO who urge their citizens to violate our borders and demonize men, like Trump, who simply want to defend them.
We live in truly strange times.Replies: @Neil Templeton, @tsotha, @Numinous, @Samuel Skinner, @ThirdWorldSteveReader
Kto kogo?
We import another 10 million immigrants into California. The resulting diversion of water to the cities for these new Dreamers depletes what little water California farmers are still allowed to have, causing "crops rotting, farmers filing bankruptcy, and massive food storages".Replies: @1661er, @Alden
There are enough waters for 10 millions people and farming being flush down into SF Bay/Pacific Ocean. Trillions of gallons of waters to push out brackish water so salt water won’t intruded into central valley delta, salt the field.
If US repeal ESA, CWA, NEPA, etc., and dam the Golden Gate, that will free up enough water to sale to Mexico, even.
The landfill would create over 500 sq. miles of lands to build housing on, that would lower housing cost, ease family formation, increase TFR. Millions of modern Arkies/Orkies would vote out people like Nancy Pelosi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdv2D9uWmZ4Replies: @black sea, @ThirdWorldSteveReader
Wow, she’s a really tedious speaker, and I say that as someone who has no particular quarrel with her work (I’ve read about her more than I’ve read her, so I don’t have much to say about her ideas).
Still and all, I had to stop watching this video 13 minutes in. I just couldn’t take it any more. Of course, having Jeff Goldberg on stage didn’t help. As much as I found her style of speaking — including the incredible amount of hedging that she felt necessary even for the most timidly un-Ivy League thought — I’d much rather listen to her than to him. He seems brain dead by comparison.
Trump365 is way too close to MAGA. And prescient.
Still seems like a slap on the wrist when one considers the collossal damage to social capital wrought by mass immigration. Another reason why the Ag lobby shouldn't be getting its desired H-2C helot visas. Instead they need to be given aggressive enforcement of E-Verify.Replies: @Alden
That’s a standard scam. When the temp job ends workers are told you’ll get your check in 2 weeks. Check never comes and the company has changed its name and has a new address.
Packages of noodles rice beans lentils cereal are all now 12 ounces instead of 16.
Those 8 ounce cans of tomato paste are now 5 ounces so you have to buy 2 of the small cans for a standard recipe.
Speaking of awesome tweets you guys need to check out Rick Wilson
He’s killing it pointing out trump supporters are virgin losers
Why cant you tell everyone at Unz bout cho re-cent suckcess. You be playin "catcher" in teh Negro Leagues!
Lensnerb "Tinys really "handles"....heh.. teh pitchin staff wells" Pittscuffery
Re: Chua’s obvious need for attention. Do you think the books-that-really-didn’t-need-to-be-written along with requisite public appearances are a cry to be selected for a cabinet post? Maybe Trump could appoint Chua ambassador to Estonia.
More relevant. That fruit rotting on the vine makes great food-fight fodder. There’s potentially more value there than in ending up perhaps being rejected by grocers despite being picked and carted off to be bought.
Once upon a time (like, oh, 20 years ago) we celebrated those people who fought against the business interests demanding dirt cheap labor: 19th Century abolitionists and early 20th Century union organizers. Today all of the double-plus-good people know the cheap labor lobby is comprised of saints and their opponents are the villains.
Once upon a time we vilified those who violated national borders (colonialists, Nazis, Imperial Japan) and celebrated those who fought to defend them. Today we celebrate guys like AMLO who urge their citizens to violate our borders and demonize men, like Trump, who simply want to defend them.
We live in truly strange times.Replies: @Neil Templeton, @tsotha, @Numinous, @Samuel Skinner, @ThirdWorldSteveReader
It’s amazing to me the sheer economic ignorance of people who support higher wages for the working poor and open immigration at the same time. California used to be a really nice place, and every year it gets a little more like Brazil.
Has the man never heard of refrigerated cargo? How many of those Ball Jars of Grandma’s does he still keep around for canning?
155 years ago, the cheap labour lobby had their panties all gathered up in a different bunch. Twitter doesn’t seem to have existed back then, but if it did, Fwd.us would have tweeted something like this:
Imagine this: Crops rotting, farmers filing bankruptcy + Cotton prices skyrocketing.
#Lincoln365
The poor man seems to think that the Great Depression in 1929 was triggered by restricting immigration in 1924...He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America....Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon, @ThreeCranes, @Numinous, @Digital Samizdat, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
You guys are big on “correlation == causation”. That’s exactly what Podhoretz is doing here too. Why don’t you disprove the above if you can? Just a denial on your part ain’t gonna cut it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Twenties
same as 2008.
2) the great depression = mass unemployment so the idea that less immigration caused the problem makes no sense
3) the middle class economy that resulted from restricting immigration (combined with the inability to off-shore) was the foundation of post-war prosperity cos middle class economy = lots of spending cash.Replies: @Numinous
The poor man seems to think that the Great Depression in 1929 was triggered by restricting immigration in 1924...He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America....Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon, @ThreeCranes, @Numinous, @Digital Samizdat, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
Then it must have triggered the Wagner Act as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labor_Relations_Act_of_1935
Until your post I was unaware that Dave Brat had used an ad linking Zuckerberg and Cantor. Obviously this ad mightily contributed to the demolishment of Cantor's political career and thereby launching his Wall Street shilling career.
At that time Zuck was relatively unknown. Imagine the much greater effectiveness in nowadays plastering his supercilious countenance in political attack ads. A joyful thing to contemplate!Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous
There was a pretty successful movie about Zuckerberg in 2010.
I believe that the movie was "pretty successful" in the sense of its showing how Zuck in tandem with his unindicted coconspirator Larry Sommers suckered the Winklevoss Twins.
Once upon a time (like, oh, 20 years ago) we celebrated those people who fought against the business interests demanding dirt cheap labor: 19th Century abolitionists and early 20th Century union organizers. Today all of the double-plus-good people know the cheap labor lobby is comprised of saints and their opponents are the villains.
Once upon a time we vilified those who violated national borders (colonialists, Nazis, Imperial Japan) and celebrated those who fought to defend them. Today we celebrate guys like AMLO who urge their citizens to violate our borders and demonize men, like Trump, who simply want to defend them.
We live in truly strange times.Replies: @Neil Templeton, @tsotha, @Numinous, @Samuel Skinner, @ThirdWorldSteveReader
Oh, you’ve been noticing those concentration camps filled with white people and run by illegals in your neck of the woods too?
There is no such thing as a labor shortage. There is a shortage of employers who want to pay a market clearing wage.
By the way, my grandmother grew up on a farm in Canada. She said her brothers could not get off the farm fast enough and out of working in the snowy fields. They became schoolteachers and such.
the Zuckerborg’s support for the SJW agenda on diversity and the multicult is a perfect fit for…
their lust for cheap labor.
#
also,
productivity is the *only* long term source of prosperity and as:
importing cheap labor for low productivity work *automatically* lowers your current average productivity
importing cheap labor also reduces the incentive/need to innovate so it prevents increasing future productivity as well as reducing the current level
importing cheap labor for low productivity farm work isn’t a one time fix as after a while they move to the cities and you need to import more
importing cheap labor is the new slavery
importing cheap labor is a bad thing.
#
also,
(sum of) wages = available revenue
so there’s no economy if people have no spending cash and capital’s desire for ever cheaper labor is ultimately self-defeating and inevitably ends in stagnation or disaster (depending on how prosperous a society was to begin with).
and
middle class economy (lots in the middle) > plantation economy (few rich, most poor)
cos velocity of money optimizes the spending cash.
1) the great depression was caused by the collapse of the banking mafia’s 1920s credit bubble
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Twenties
same as 2008.
2) the great depression = mass unemployment so the idea that less immigration caused the problem makes no sense
3) the middle class economy that resulted from restricting immigration (combined with the inability to off-shore) was the foundation of post-war prosperity cos middle class economy = lots of spending cash.
i think labor shortages are a good thing as they are the main driver of innovation and a nationalist government should aim to always maintain a slight labor shortage at all times for that reason (while actively funding research into teching up the lowest productivity work).
Once upon a time (like, oh, 20 years ago) we celebrated those people who fought against the business interests demanding dirt cheap labor: 19th Century abolitionists and early 20th Century union organizers. Today all of the double-plus-good people know the cheap labor lobby is comprised of saints and their opponents are the villains.
Once upon a time we vilified those who violated national borders (colonialists, Nazis, Imperial Japan) and celebrated those who fought to defend them. Today we celebrate guys like AMLO who urge their citizens to violate our borders and demonize men, like Trump, who simply want to defend them.
We live in truly strange times.Replies: @Neil Templeton, @tsotha, @Numinous, @Samuel Skinner, @ThirdWorldSteveReader
Nah, the double think just got more blatant. Using lies to gain political power goes back to the American Revolution (where after the English spent lives and wealth to protect the colonies from the French we allied with the French to kick out the English); it just kicked into high gear with things like ‘white flight’.
Here you go, Piltdown:
Inflation by Deflation.
OK, OK, that’s not from the Mainstream Lyin’ Press, but I hope you will consider Peak Stupidity part of the media now.
I am thinking Upper Volta
It is the processed chemically laden food that is responsible for the large rise in obesity rates, and those foods are dirt cheap, in part because they are subsidized by the government. In general, nutritious food is more expensive. Eliminating all food subsidies has a better shot at reducing obesity rates rather than inflation, although Venezuela has managed to show that massive widespread inflation is great for a national population reaching some impressive weight loss goals.Replies: @Anonymous, @The Anti-Gnostic
Agree that subsidies should be phased out but fresh spinach is 59 cents a pound at my local grocery store.
Point taken, but two thirds of the population can't sustain themselves on a diet largely based on fruits and vegetables. When we start talking about poultry and beef, the low priced stuff is loaded up with antibiotics, which food producers love to use because it supersizes the animals. Unfortunately those antibiotic-laced foods supersize the end consumer as well.
Until your post I was unaware that Dave Brat had used an ad linking Zuckerberg and Cantor. Obviously this ad mightily contributed to the demolishment of Cantor's political career and thereby launching his Wall Street shilling career.
At that time Zuck was relatively unknown. Imagine the much greater effectiveness in nowadays plastering his supercilious countenance in political attack ads. A joyful thing to contemplate!Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous
Obviously? I assume you’re kidding? I live in the district and I never saw or even heard of such an ad. But then for all I know it was played on television during daytime soap operas.
Though you clearly don’t intend it, your description increasingly resembles large parts of the country. Soon your most fevered dreams shall be realized.
Humans like this guy?
http://airharvesters.com/en/
How freaking hard is it to search “(fruit name) harvester”?
Yes, she uses more hedges than an English country estate. She reminds me of Camille Paglia–if Paglia second-guessed everything she said. That said, though, her answer to the last question (starting around 24:00) is worth a listen.
It is indeed. Liked her comment about the influx of newcomers being--I think she said "disassociating"--to the native population. Gee, ya think? Wonder if the devoted admirer of Yisroel, Jeff Goldberg--quoted in Wiki as "a powerless 13-year-old boy suffering at the hands of Irish pogromists" while growing up in a predominantly Irish (read "Catholic")neighborhood in LI-- took kindly to her remarks. Saw her interviewed by Brian Lamb on C-Span not too long ago. She equivocates all over the place and talks way, way too fast but...at least she isn't an Ivy League bomb thrower. Which is about the most we can hope for these days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Twenties
same as 2008.
2) the great depression = mass unemployment so the idea that less immigration caused the problem makes no sense
3) the middle class economy that resulted from restricting immigration (combined with the inability to off-shore) was the foundation of post-war prosperity cos middle class economy = lots of spending cash.Replies: @Numinous
What if I were to say that the bubble-bursting and stock market crash happened because of decreased demand, which was an outcome of the immigration freeze?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270001/distribution-of-gross-domestic-product-gdp-across-economic-sectors-in-the-us/Replies: @Precious, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
For many of the fattest Americans, the price of food is zero. Whenever I have shopped in a supermarket in the ghetto of W. Phila (BTW it is a lie that ghettos are “food deserts” – the supermarkets there are nicer (and do much more business) than the ones in the Main Line suburbs where 105 lb. ladies buy 3 cups of diet yogurt with their own money) the 300 lb. ladies have their carts filled to the brim with all sorts of junk food and I have yet to see one pay with their own money – they always use their “Access” (EBT/food stamps) card. As far as I can tell after years of being in checkout lines, 90%+ of the black women in Phila have one. Some of these women looked better dressed than I am and they still have the card. I will buy a few vegetables and maybe a piece of fish and these folks have their carts loaded with all sorts of crap that I am also paying for. In fact, I get to pay twice – once for their grocery bill and a 2nd time when they get their diabetes treatments from Medicaid.
And it would be wrong for our government to tell people that they can’t spend their food stamp money (to which the recipients are legally “entitled”) on junk food – that would be nanny statism. Archer Daniels agrees with the ghetto activists on that.
Pepsi/Frito-lay also agrees, so you are completely out of the mainstream. What, are you some kind of extremist hater or something?
There are some robotic options, such as keeping a net below and then shaking the stem, but at fairly high damage/loss rates.
https://news.wsu.edu/2006/08/30/wsu-scientists-perfecting-mechanical-harvest-of-cherries/
A cherry harvester in action:
https://youtu.be/7doY1sgYyHwReplies: @Daniel Chieh, @Daniel Chieh
I also picked cherries. Difficult with sweet cherries because you need to keep the stems intact. The sour cherry is canned, Maybe frozen today, so you just striped them off. Now sweet cherries are costly beyond buying and sour cherries are harvested with trunk shakers so the processing begins almost immediately. Consequently, many growers are replacing sweet cherries with sour to skip the picking costs.
In retrospect, I confess missing school days to work in the fields. There was plenty of school later in life, but I learned lessons as a 13 year old in the berry beds that were more significant than anything I experienced in classroom, workshop or seminar.Replies: @Daniel Chieh
next you'll be telling me that it would be too difficult to invent an automatic transmission that shifts smoothly.
Agricultural engineering is not rocket science. It's a little bit of development money and a good amount of persistence.
Daniel Chieh should be tied down in a chair and forced to study the developmental strategies of Thomas Edison's laboratories.Replies: @Daniel Chieh
The kerosene tractor is an interesting historical footnote. In the rural areas of the US in 1921, kerosene was easier to source than gasoline – many people still used it for lighting since the countryside was not 100% electrified. It stores longer than gasoline and is less dangerous to have around. Most importantly, it was cheaper than gasoline. Kerosene however is a very low octane fuel and the engines had to be very low compression (which led to low power) and sometimes they would resort to tricks such as water injection to prevent knock (diesel engines will run on kerosene but these were spark ignition engines). Usually the engine would start on gasoline and then switch over to cheaper kerosene – heat from the exhaust manifold would warm the kerosene (cold kerosene doesn’t vaporize very well but in order for this to work the engine had to be warmed up first by running it on gasoline for a few minutes). Not long after this ad, the price of gasoline evened out with kerosene and there were no more kerosene tractors.
I’m sorry but I disagree with this. This reflects some kind of crude archaic thinking or proto-Marxism. A farm is a business like any other business. Some businesses grow to a scale where the owner and his family can’t do all the work by themselves and they pay people to come work for them. Sometimes they only need a few people and sometimes they need more than a few. There are many different types of agriculture – one farmer and his family, aided by mechanization, might be able to manage hundreds of acres of wheat in N. Dakota but there is no way you can operate a strawberry farm, where all the picking has to be done by hand, alone. Employees, whether on a farm or elsewhere, are not slaves or coerced – there is a voluntary exchange of labor for money. In crazy Marxist places like Cuba they allow a certain amount of self-employment but limit the # of people you can hire but in America we don’t, for good reason.
https://youtu.be/RKT351pQHfI
Kerosene was also used as a cooking fuel in the United States in the rural Northeast until widespread electrification and distribution systems for natural gas or LPG in cylinders were commonplace. Some Amish or Mennonite communities still use kerosene stoves, if I recall correctly.
This is a great tweet from a super-traditionalist perspective, quoting a Japanese writer on how much modern appliances destroyed traditional Japanese interior design aesthetics.
Has California passed laws restricting state universities from developing labor saving equipment?
They're working on grape picking machines, so Napa and Sonoma can boot most of the 'Mesicans...
All the nuts are picked by shaking the tree. If a job includes human labor, they're working to get rid of it.
He's killing it pointing out trump supporters are virgin losersReplies: @Giant Duck, @fish
Do your female students crave virgins of color? Please transcribe some of these conversations for the group. We’re all very interested.
Nobody’s being coerced, they’re just hiring immigrants for less money to do the farm work.
The poor man seems to think that the Great Depression in 1929 was triggered by restricting immigration in 1924...He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America....Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon, @ThreeCranes, @Numinous, @Digital Samizdat, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
This makes you just as wrong as he was. It’s hard to call the period from 1929 to 1945 a “Golden Age” – the country was either mired in economic depression or engrossed in a deadly war. ’24 to ’29 was pretty good and ’45 to ’65 was pretty good too (unless perhaps you were black and in the American South). Probably the fact that immigration was low after ’45 helped the average worker but the fact that the US was the victor in the war and the only country with an intact industrial base may have helped even more. Government benefits like the GI Bill that increased skill levels and productivity also helped and the fact that there was a small birth cohort (few births during the Depression) and the # of young men reduced by war casualties also lessened competition for the remaining guys. Laws at the time were favorable to unions and manufacturing had not yet been sent overseas so unions had a lot of bargaining power – they could shut down vital industries such as steel and choke the economy. Low immigration may have helped but there were other factors that were probably even more important.
Then there's the fact that the USA became the dominant world power during those decades...and experienced its apogee as a nation-state....
If that's not a golden age, it'll do until the real thing gets here....1924-1965 saw a lot of things improve for Black Americans: Lynching essentially came to an end, integration of the armed forces, Voting Rights Act of 1965, Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, ....And the Black family was in a hell of a lot better shape than it is now.....Replies: @Alden
This period--basically my parents' childhood, young adulthood and family formation period--was in fact a Golden Age for the average American *even with* the Great Depression and the War.
And the Great Depression had nothing to do with immigration but rather a very strong capitalist over-production cycle (in the factory electrification, and auto assembly-line technology boom) and a very poor response of central bankers and politicians to monetary contraction. Sure, if you were a young man who ended up at the bottom of Iron Bottom Sound, or in a cemetery, maybe it doesn't look so "Golden Agey".
But if you are a typical American who lived through this period in 1965, you are thinking *damn*, man has life gotten better during the last 40!
~
The incredible improvement and prosperity is what you get when you combine a high IQ, competent population, an adequate resource base and technological development … with a closed labor market--living standards shoot up.
And … we could have that again.
Obviously there is a lot of water under the bridge. But close off immigration. (Maybe give the President a quota of say 50,000 folks a year that he is willing to individually certify as being likely big contributors, healthy, intelligent, of good character and inclined and eager to integrate to American norms, values and culture.) Close immigration--and you'll see housing prices immediately drop and wages immediately rise. Family formation will improve. And we can juice that with tax incentives, while simultaneously choke back on welfare and demand birth control for recipients to push us back toward eugenic improvement. Sure, we've got the cancer of minoritarianism making everything from education, employment sanity to finding a decent neighborhood more difficult. And we're dumber. And more balkanized. It's a long road back to sanity and freedom.
But cut off immigration, and prospects will start improving for the average American immediately. Prosperity will start breaking out all over. The future will be bright for Americans again.
He's killing it pointing out trump supporters are virgin losersReplies: @Giant Duck, @fish
Ohs Tinys…..
Why cant you tell everyone at Unz bout cho re-cent suckcess. You be playin “catcher” in teh Negro Leagues!
Lensnerb “Tinys really “handles”….heh.. teh pitchin staff wells” Pittscuffery
Kerosene heaters were also pretty common – I mean the kind that was vented with a chimney (but stank anyway), not the modern Japanese style round ones that ghetto residents use after the power company has turned off their electric when they don’t pay the bill. I saw a number of these kerosene heaters growing up in rural NJ (there was also one old time family that heated their house with a potbelly stove) but I can’t say I ever saw a kerosene cook stove. I think even the Amish have mostly switched to propane by now but there must still be some holdouts because Lehmans still sells them.
I remember when I was a little boy in the early ‘80s my family had one in the living room of our trailer. Best I can remember they would get the room about as hot as Hades but then they would get smoky or the air would reek of fuel so you’d open a door to air the place out. You’d go from near sauna to Arctic breeze.
Yeah, isn’t it? I would be curious to know how much of a change, if any, there has been at the level of cost. Or, for that matter, on the wholesale level.
President Trump won the presidency because he called out Mark Zuckerberg, Paul Singer and many other billionaires and puppet politicians on nation-wrecking mass immigration.
I helped to get Trump going on Paul Singer and Marco Rubio at a campaign event in New Hampshire.
I spoke out in a loud voice to say that Marco Rubio is a stooge for Paul Singer on immigration and Trumpy heard it and made some more remarks about Marco Rubio. Trumpy feeds off the energy and enthusiasm of a crowd better than any presidential campaigner I have seen. The crowd loved it when Trump when after Marco Rubio, and I was happy to do my part to move the conversation on to that disgusting stooge Marco Rubio and that billionaire shyster boy Paul Singer.
Tweets from 2015:
Odd then that according to the Ag experts it is far cheaper and produces more usable fruit.
https://news.wsu.edu/2006/08/30/wsu-scientists-perfecting-mechanical-harvest-of-cherries/
A cherry harvester in action:
1) It doesn't preserve the stem, so it has to be marketed differently.
2) It requires a specific type of plant. This is, in fact, one of the main challenges of automation even in controlled mass production - robots tend to be extremely ill at adapting to even small changes, as Telsa discovered with their efforts at "alien dreadnought." Biological systems when integrated present significant variance.
3) Most gains are projected.
Still interesting, though. This is not my area of expertise, though I do work with automation, so seeing it adapting to other fields especially those resistant to automation is always welcome.Replies: @Jack D
We all want to love President Trump. Well, a lot of us do, anyways, but Trumpy has to make himself lovable first.
President Trump would make himself highly lovable if he were to call for a complete and total shutdown of all immigration pouring into the United States.
Trump the presidential candidate made a campaign promise to halt all immigration if that was necessary to protect the safety, security and sovereignty of the United States. Trump should go bold and make the Democrat Party’s open borders mass immigration stance a millstone that will sink the Democrats.
Trump can suggest that he puts the interests of American citizens ahead of the interests of foreigners, and, if necessary, he will stop all immigration to protect the safety, security and sovereignty of the United States. The voters will love it and the Democrats will go bananas and scream about open borders even more.
President Trump must do two things to protect the United States:
IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW
DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS NOW
Tweet from 2015:
“…her answer to the last question (starting around 24:00) is worth a listen.”
It is indeed. Liked her comment about the influx of newcomers being–I think she said “disassociating”–to the native population. Gee, ya think? Wonder if the devoted admirer of Yisroel, Jeff Goldberg–quoted in Wiki as “a powerless 13-year-old boy suffering at the hands of Irish pogromists” while growing up in a predominantly Irish (read “Catholic”)neighborhood in LI– took kindly to her remarks. Saw her interviewed by Brian Lamb on C-Span not too long ago. She equivocates all over the place and talks way, way too fast but…at least she isn’t an Ivy League bomb thrower. Which is about the most we can hope for these days.
Except for this guy apparently…
Steve Sailer Must Do Two Things:
1) Eat More Delicious Blueberries,
and
2) Moderate My Comments On Through.
Thank You
GOD BLESS AMERICA
OFF TOPIC
Steve Sailer’s superhero level indifference towards some subjects is delightful.
He sniffs and says he ain’t much interested in some subjects and that’s that.
I feel the same way about the US Supreme Court.
I think the bastards have too much power and they should be IMPEACHED often to correct their behaviour.
Ann Coulter seems to be leaning towards Kavanaugh for the US Supreme Court, so what Ann Coulter says goes.
I personally think the US Supreme Court should be defanged and declawed by means of IMPEACHMENT.
Foreigners
Citizens
The ruling class of the American Empire is using foreigners to destroy the cultural cohesion of the United States and the sovereignty of the United States.
President Trump must put the interests of American citizens ahead of the interests of foreigners.
That battle will destroy the Democrat Party if Trump has the guts to lead that battle. I think Trump has the guts.
And it would be wrong for our government to tell people that they can't spend their food stamp money (to which the recipients are legally "entitled") on junk food - that would be nanny statism. Archer Daniels agrees with the ghetto activists on that.Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Joe Stalin
And it would be wrong for our government to tell people that they can’t spend their food stamp money (to which the recipients are legally “entitled”) on junk food – that would be nanny statism. Archer Daniels agrees with the ghetto activists on that.
Pepsi/Frito-lay also agrees, so you are completely out of the mainstream. What, are you some kind of extremist hater or something?
This is a great tweet from a super-traditionalist perspective, quoting a Japanese writer on how much modern appliances destroyed traditional Japanese interior design aesthetics.
When was a kid we used to pick strawberries at 5 cents a quart. Sometimes kids took off school slnce the season was short, at most 12 days, pretty much ended be 4th of July. Bust your back and knees from 0700 to noon, later the sun was too hot (for the berries not the kids) and on a good day pick 85 to 90 quarts. One real expert girl could pick over a hundred. You needed to grade them for quality and ripeness as you picked. We took a lot of pride when our farmer-employer hit the top of the NYC produce market with berries at 70 cents a quart. Payment the first summer included the first two twenty dollar bills, I ever had.
I also picked cherries. Difficult with sweet cherries because you need to keep the stems intact. The sour cherry is canned, Maybe frozen today, so you just striped them off. Now sweet cherries are costly beyond buying and sour cherries are harvested with trunk shakers so the processing begins almost immediately. Consequently, many growers are replacing sweet cherries with sour to skip the picking costs.
In retrospect, I confess missing school days to work in the fields. There was plenty of school later in life, but I learned lessons as a 13 year old in the berry beds that were more significant than anything I experienced in classroom, workshop or seminar.
Once upon a time (like, oh, 20 years ago) we celebrated those people who fought against the business interests demanding dirt cheap labor: 19th Century abolitionists and early 20th Century union organizers. Today all of the double-plus-good people know the cheap labor lobby is comprised of saints and their opponents are the villains.
Once upon a time we vilified those who violated national borders (colonialists, Nazis, Imperial Japan) and celebrated those who fought to defend them. Today we celebrate guys like AMLO who urge their citizens to violate our borders and demonize men, like Trump, who simply want to defend them.
We live in truly strange times.Replies: @Neil Templeton, @tsotha, @Numinous, @Samuel Skinner, @ThirdWorldSteveReader
There is a simple answer: these great Left moralists don’t give a shit for the workers’ wages, or for borders, or freedom; they just advance whatever will bring them more power in a given context.
71 Daniel Chieh > There are some robotic options, such as keeping a net below and then shaking the stem, but at fairly high damage/loss rates
next you’ll be telling me that it would be too difficult to invent an automatic transmission that shifts smoothly.
Agricultural engineering is not rocket science. It’s a little bit of development money and a good amount of persistence.
Daniel Chieh should be tied down in a chair and forced to study the developmental strategies of Thomas Edison’s laboratories.
Anyway, I never said that the difficulties were insurmountable, just the challenges at this moment.
35 Tom Wilkes > A reminder that farmers are people who engage in agriculture and do the bulk of the farm-work themselves and with their families
i’ll mention that to all the guys in the Midwest who own contract-harvesting businesses, and spend hundreds of thousands of $ to own/maintain specialized combines & etc
There is a reason that you’d prefer to have your hernia operation done by a guy who specializes in that, and there’s a reason for everything else we see.
By the way, Tom Wilkes, what is your background in real farm operations? Or are you another city boy with a typewriter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdv2D9uWmZ4Replies: @black sea, @ThirdWorldSteveReader
Incomplete commented abstract; feel free to correct me.
Around 7:10: Chua says racism is way overused today. No shit, isn’t it what we have been saying for years? She returns to this at 12:00, 18:20 (making a good point), and 22:50.
Around 9:00: Chua says it’s not productive to assume 60 million voters are evil and immoral (no shit). Goldberg chimes in to say that akshually, since we’re in a terrible moment and Trump is a wayciss… FACEPALM.
Around 10:00, Chua talks about market dominant minorities while conspicuously ommiting the one most relevant in the American context. At 10:20, she even states America never had a market dominant minority, but is now headed to have one called “coastal elites”. The chutzpah…
Around 11:20, a funny and good description of the Left’s loss of support from low class whites. At 12:00, Goldberg asks (kinda skeptically) if these people have actual justification for their grievances. She gives a good answer, taking about the perspective of a poor white student in an elite university (nothing the iSteve crowd has not seen by themselves), starting at around 13:00.
Around 14:20, some inane question by Goldberg about worrying if there would be a point where America would no longer attract immigrants. Chua doesn’t believe it will come to be so because institutions, and jabs young people who went to throw the baby with the bathwater because said institutions are not perfect (15:20).
15:30: Goldberg asks if she sees young progressives trying to change the Constitution (what? Second Amendment anyone?).
19:10, someone asks for examples of successful outreaches to the working class whites (Trump, anyone?). She answers that normal interaction with different people (not exposure, which is what the Left usually does) makes people more open-minded. She cites the US military in the 50s as a good example. Not super-convincing, but OK.
Around 21:10, she describes her effort to make students in her classes not to assume disagreeing students are xenophobic racists. Not sure how successful she has been.
21:40, a woman asks her how does she teach empathy (!!!) to groups that have those Appalachian whites who don’t understand how epigenetics affects minorities (go there an check, I shit you not).
23:20, Chua on #meetoo and how it fosters tribalism.
24;00, Goldberg asks why she is so sure the Constitution is stronger than Trumpism. She goes on about the uniqueness of the American Constitution and the rarity of birthright citizenship (forgetting it exists in all of Latin America, but I digress), and America is different for not being a country with a singular ethnic identity.
26:00, she sympathizes with the nativists, inviting the Left crowd to imagine how would the Chinese feel if they found that within 20 years China would be majority white.
In short: I think she knows things, but can’t spell them fully.
At 55, she shouldn't be dressing like that.
https://news.wsu.edu/2006/08/30/wsu-scientists-perfecting-mechanical-harvest-of-cherries/
A cherry harvester in action:
https://youtu.be/7doY1sgYyHwReplies: @Daniel Chieh, @Daniel Chieh
I think it applies primarily to rasberries and blueberries. But yes, technology advances.
https://youtu.be/MCkefvOtvuQ
https://youtu.be/bt73GOk4JRY
http://airharvesters.com/en/
http://www.oxbocorp.com/Products/Berries/Blueberry-Harvesters/8000Replies: @Daniel Chieh
Steve,
I believe that the movie was “pretty successful” in the sense of its showing how Zuck in tandem with his unindicted coconspirator Larry Sommers suckered the Winklevoss Twins.
next you'll be telling me that it would be too difficult to invent an automatic transmission that shifts smoothly.
Agricultural engineering is not rocket science. It's a little bit of development money and a good amount of persistence.
Daniel Chieh should be tied down in a chair and forced to study the developmental strategies of Thomas Edison's laboratories.Replies: @Daniel Chieh
Steal the inventions of others and patent them under your name? To be fair, its contractually the norm in most companies nowadays.
Anyway, I never said that the difficulties were insurmountable, just the challenges at this moment.
Blast from the past! Do any poor or working class folk still use those kerosene space heaters?
I remember when I was a little boy in the early ‘80s my family had one in the living room of our trailer. Best I can remember they would get the room about as hot as Hades but then they would get smoky or the air would reek of fuel so you’d open a door to air the place out. You’d go from near sauna to Arctic breeze.
https://news.wsu.edu/2006/08/30/wsu-scientists-perfecting-mechanical-harvest-of-cherries/
A cherry harvester in action:
https://youtu.be/7doY1sgYyHwReplies: @Daniel Chieh, @Daniel Chieh
I read the fluff blurb, so a few takeaways:
1) It doesn’t preserve the stem, so it has to be marketed differently.
2) It requires a specific type of plant. This is, in fact, one of the main challenges of automation even in controlled mass production – robots tend to be extremely ill at adapting to even small changes, as Telsa discovered with their efforts at “alien dreadnought.” Biological systems when integrated present significant variance.
3) Most gains are projected.
Still interesting, though. This is not my area of expertise, though I do work with automation, so seeing it adapting to other fields especially those resistant to automation is always welcome.
I also picked cherries. Difficult with sweet cherries because you need to keep the stems intact. The sour cherry is canned, Maybe frozen today, so you just striped them off. Now sweet cherries are costly beyond buying and sour cherries are harvested with trunk shakers so the processing begins almost immediately. Consequently, many growers are replacing sweet cherries with sour to skip the picking costs.
In retrospect, I confess missing school days to work in the fields. There was plenty of school later in life, but I learned lessons as a 13 year old in the berry beds that were more significant than anything I experienced in classroom, workshop or seminar.Replies: @Daniel Chieh
I’ve always believed that agriculture work feels the most “real” for most of us. Its what we’ve been doing from 6000 BC, after all.
1) It doesn't preserve the stem, so it has to be marketed differently.
2) It requires a specific type of plant. This is, in fact, one of the main challenges of automation even in controlled mass production - robots tend to be extremely ill at adapting to even small changes, as Telsa discovered with their efforts at "alien dreadnought." Biological systems when integrated present significant variance.
3) Most gains are projected.
Still interesting, though. This is not my area of expertise, though I do work with automation, so seeing it adapting to other fields especially those resistant to automation is always welcome.Replies: @Jack D
The “low hanging fruit” (so to speak) has already been picked. The McCormick reaper began harvesting grain in the 1st half of the 19th century. Other crops have been automated one by one but the ones that remain are the toughest nuts to crack. Ultimately we will have robots that will have agility and hand-eye (camera-robot arm) coordination that is as good as (if not better than) humans but for now it’s still cheaper to use humans for many applications. The strawberry robot appeared to be picking a lot of green strawberries along with the ripe ones while a human picker has no problem picking only ripe strawberries. Most pickers are not really robots but relatively crude devices that just shake the tree or some such.
http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/ers/95003/table01.xls
Ag is industrialized.
https://youtu.be/e-hZ3IWAxXc
Since 1924 building sorting and packing machines:
https://en.unitec-group.com/fruit-vegetables-technology/Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Jack D
Seriously? Again, how hard is it to search “raspberry harvester” or “blueberry harvester”? Spelling raspberry correctly is optional..
http://airharvesters.com/en/
http://www.oxbocorp.com/Products/Berries/Blueberry-Harvesters/8000
https://news.psu.edu/story/405843/2016/04/21/research/engineers-working-better-blueberry-pickerSince you stressed it, I decided to look into attitudes by agri on this from a fairly recent date, which provided this as of 2/2018.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323406692_Blueberry_Producers'_Attitudes_toward_Harvest_Mechanization_for_Fresh_MarketSo, no, its not like there's a conspiracy against it. Its still just not quite viable yet. Go tell them to google.Replies: @notanon
I remember years ago a guy telling me he picked strawberries on an English farm in the 70s or early 80s. Apparently they were paid according to the amount picked. He said his Egyptian co-workers would urinate in the buckets to increase the weight. Seeing “machine-harvested” on a packet of fruit would be a big plus for me.
Romantic notions aside, modern agricultural work is like any other industrial process. A farmer sitting in the airconditioned cab of his tractor listening to satellite radio and guided by GPS is no closer to nature than someone who drives an 18 wheeler.
Obviously, their main motive in doing this was thuggish malice, since there are easier ways of cheating on the weight, but it makes you consider the wisdom of allowing people who regard you with envy or spite to handle what you are eating. Remember Jesse Jackson’s boast about spitting on white people’s food.
Do you for one moment believe the 3 Billion pounds of strawberries in the US are hand picked and hand sorted?
http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/ers/95003/table01.xls
Ag is industrialized.
Since 1924 building sorting and packing machines:
https://en.unitec-group.com/fruit-vegetables-technology/
They are working on strawberry picking machines but it is a difficult challenge. I am confident that they will overcome the challenge someday as they have for so many other crops but none of these machines are ready for production so the strawberries that you buy are all hand picked.Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Stan d Mute, @vinteuil
By the way, the next real game changer from the kerosene engined tractor above arguably wasn’t a gas engine, but the three point hitch. Ford dropped out of the tractor market for a decade before returning with the 9N (2N and later 8N – the best selling tractor in American history). Number one selling point? Three point hitch:
Before they had tractors, 20% of a farmers land had to be put aside to grow the stuff the horses and mules would eat during the winter, and the other half as pasture to feed them during the growing season.
Buy a tractor, sell the livestock, and have an instantaneous 20% increase in production. Caused a massive glut of foodstuffs in the 1920's and into the '30s.Replies: @Stan d Mute
There is a fifth column of socialist infiltrators in the United States that has occupied key positions in government, media, finance and education – a conspiracy of ostensible allies that for decades has plotted the moral downfall and disinheritance of the American people.
I refer of course to our age-old enemy, the perfidious agents of Soviet Canuckistan.
The only ‘critical shortage’ is of peeps that can pass the drug scan and the good driver scans, AND work for wages that are about half of what good drivers will work for. Raise the hourly pay and you’ll get lots of drivers, good ones.
Same as the H1b scam; there are plenty of qualified tech peeps already in the country. They just won’t work for half of what that job has traditionally paid, including not working 60+ hours a week without overtime pay, like the Hib’s will do since they really don’t have much of anything else to do, no family or many friends in this country.
One of the girls I knew in high school worked about 15 years in video production. She did the industrial videos for employee training. Company went out of business due to screwed up new managers. When she applied for similar jobs, they only offered about half of what she had been making. She said they wanted to hire somebody that actually knew what to do for the same wage as a recent college grad. She never went back and worked for the local community college, taxpayers will pay much better than the private sector these days….
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270001/distribution-of-gross-domestic-product-gdp-across-economic-sectors-in-the-us/Replies: @Precious, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
The crazy crap you read on iSteve.
https://youtu.be/MCkefvOtvuQ
https://youtu.be/bt73GOk4JRY
http://airharvesters.com/en/
http://www.oxbocorp.com/Products/Berries/Blueberry-Harvesters/8000Replies: @Daniel Chieh
Do you just google and look at sales videos? There’s a reason why something isn’t used everywhere; no one leaves money sitting on the sidewalk, Paul Krugman’s beliefs aside.
https://news.psu.edu/story/405843/2016/04/21/research/engineers-working-better-blueberry-picker
Since you stressed it, I decided to look into attitudes by agri on this from a fairly recent date, which provided this as of 2/2018.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323406692_Blueberry_Producers’_Attitudes_toward_Harvest_Mechanization_for_Fresh_Market
So, no, its not like there’s a conspiracy against it. Its still just not quite viable yet. Go tell them to google.
For ag, UC Davis is leading the pack. They’re the one that came up with the the tennis ball tomatoes we know and loathe at the market. Those can be machine picked and trucked without damage or taste!
They’re working on grape picking machines, so Napa and Sonoma can boot most of the ‘Mesicans…
All the nuts are picked by shaking the tree. If a job includes human labor, they’re working to get rid of it.
I don’t suppose a “keep Mexicans in school (or in Mexico)” ad for fruit-picking machines would go down too well these days?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f8/d3/f7/f8d3f7bf2414c75abb0ef236fb5ef47d--vintage-tractors-ford-jubilee-tractor.jpgReplies: @gunner29
I’ve rented a couple of tractors with 3 point scraper boxes on them. Both times the adjustable links that adjust the angle snapped and I had to weld them back together. I wasn’t abusing it, no huge rocks or roots, just the gravel base before the asphalt went down. Never could figure it out.
Before they had tractors, 20% of a farmers land had to be put aside to grow the stuff the horses and mules would eat during the winter, and the other half as pasture to feed them during the growing season.
Buy a tractor, sell the livestock, and have an instantaneous 20% increase in production. Caused a massive glut of foodstuffs in the 1920’s and into the ’30s.
Don’t feel bad, I totaled a rented bulldozer before I bought my own.
http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/ers/95003/table01.xls
Ag is industrialized.
https://youtu.be/e-hZ3IWAxXc
Since 1924 building sorting and packing machines:
https://en.unitec-group.com/fruit-vegetables-technology/Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Jack D
Robots Are Trying To Pick Strawberries. So Far, They’re Not Very Good At It
Let’s see, what did Anglo-America accomplish from 1924 to 1965: defeated Japan, built the atomic bomb, produced classic films (The General, The Maltese Falcon, The Wizard of Oz, Singin’ in the Rain, The Searchers, Red River, Citizen Kane, Touch of Evil, …) , Information Theory, the transistor, the integrated circuit, wrote great literature (The Great Gatsby, A Farewell to Arms, Absalom, Absalom!, The Big Sleep, The Maltese Falcon, The Professor’s House, The Glass Menagerie, The Just and the Unjust, Light in August, ….), broke the Sound Barrier, the laser, the liquid fuel rocket, the cyclotron, …….
Then there’s the fact that the USA became the dominant world power during those decades…and experienced its apogee as a nation-state….
If that’s not a golden age, it’ll do until the real thing gets here….
1924-1965 saw a lot of things improve for Black Americans: Lynching essentially came to an end, integration of the armed forces, Voting Rights Act of 1965, Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, ….And the Black family was in a hell of a lot better shape than it is now…..
Dishwashers may have been low paid but with low housing costs they could afford shelter food clothes and transportation.
Now the illegals have all those kind of jobs and their living expenses are covered by welfare so their pay is disposable income often sent to Mexico.
And Hispanics and Asians have been given most of the affirmative action jobs the baby boomer blacks had.
Proof that you’re not very bright?
In 1886 the Statue of Liberty opened. The 1890 census put the USA at about 63 million, today it’s over 325 million. In 1890 one farmer fed about 11 others, today one farmer feeds at least 155 others and that efficiency is increasing every year. Automated farm vehicles that drive themselves, automated drones spraying pesticides, more advances in robotic fruit pick machines etc.
http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/ers/95003/table01.xls
Ag is industrialized.
https://youtu.be/e-hZ3IWAxXc
Since 1924 building sorting and packing machines:
https://en.unitec-group.com/fruit-vegetables-technology/Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Jack D
Not only do I believe it for a moment, I believe it all day, every day. Every last damn strawberry you have ever eaten has been picked by a human hand. All 3 billions pounds/year. There is no “sorting” (except to the extent the pickers are only supposed to pick ripe, undamaged berries). Strawberries (even the hard as wood ones that are bred to withstand long distance shipping) are too fragile to be sorted after picking like apples. They are picked by a human and put directly into the cartons that you buy them in and not touched in any way in between.
They are working on strawberry picking machines but it is a difficult challenge. I am confident that they will overcome the challenge someday as they have for so many other crops but none of these machines are ready for production so the strawberries that you buy are all hand picked.
Before they had tractors, 20% of a farmers land had to be put aside to grow the stuff the horses and mules would eat during the winter, and the other half as pasture to feed them during the growing season.
Buy a tractor, sell the livestock, and have an instantaneous 20% increase in production. Caused a massive glut of foodstuffs in the 1920's and into the '30s.Replies: @Stan d Mute
They don’t make them like they used to! I had an original (to the tractor) link on my 1955 8N. I couldn’t begin to detail the abuse that thing suffered, yet other than filling the rear tires solid and changing to 12V, nothing on that machine ever broke. Try a Kubota next time – I abused the daylights out of my 40hp and she looked as indestructible as the 8N.
Don’t feel bad, I totaled a rented bulldozer before I bought my own.
They are working on strawberry picking machines but it is a difficult challenge. I am confident that they will overcome the challenge someday as they have for so many other crops but none of these machines are ready for production so the strawberries that you buy are all hand picked.Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Stan d Mute, @vinteuil
At some point in the future, if we ever become a super-sized Venezuela, I expect someone to say “We should have picked our own strawberries”.
They are working on strawberry picking machines but it is a difficult challenge. I am confident that they will overcome the challenge someday as they have for so many other crops but none of these machines are ready for production so the strawberries that you buy are all hand picked.Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Stan d Mute, @vinteuil
Ok, you convinced me to look more deeply and convince myself. As of right now, I am boycotting strawberries until they’re machine harvested in entirety. I want nothing to do with mesoamerican invasion of America. I suspect I can survive without strawberries (or mesoamerican invaders).
so you're right imo.
Around 7:10: Chua says racism is way overused today. No shit, isn't it what we have been saying for years? She returns to this at 12:00, 18:20 (making a good point), and 22:50.
Around 9:00: Chua says it's not productive to assume 60 million voters are evil and immoral (no shit). Goldberg chimes in to say that akshually, since we're in a terrible moment and Trump is a wayciss... FACEPALM.
Around 10:00, Chua talks about market dominant minorities while conspicuously ommiting the one most relevant in the American context. At 10:20, she even states America never had a market dominant minority, but is now headed to have one called "coastal elites". The chutzpah...
Around 11:20, a funny and good description of the Left's loss of support from low class whites. At 12:00, Goldberg asks (kinda skeptically) if these people have actual justification for their grievances. She gives a good answer, taking about the perspective of a poor white student in an elite university (nothing the iSteve crowd has not seen by themselves), starting at around 13:00.
Around 14:20, some inane question by Goldberg about worrying if there would be a point where America would no longer attract immigrants. Chua doesn't believe it will come to be so because institutions, and jabs young people who went to throw the baby with the bathwater because said institutions are not perfect (15:20).
15:30: Goldberg asks if she sees young progressives trying to change the Constitution (what? Second Amendment anyone?).
19:10, someone asks for examples of successful outreaches to the working class whites (Trump, anyone?). She answers that normal interaction with different people (not exposure, which is what the Left usually does) makes people more open-minded. She cites the US military in the 50s as a good example. Not super-convincing, but OK.
Around 21:10, she describes her effort to make students in her classes not to assume disagreeing students are xenophobic racists. Not sure how successful she has been.
21:40, a woman asks her how does she teach empathy (!!!) to groups that have those Appalachian whites who don't understand how epigenetics affects minorities (go there an check, I shit you not).
23:20, Chua on #meetoo and how it fosters tribalism.
24;00, Goldberg asks why she is so sure the Constitution is stronger than Trumpism. She goes on about the uniqueness of the American Constitution and the rarity of birthright citizenship (forgetting it exists in all of Latin America, but I digress), and America is different for not being a country with a singular ethnic identity.
26:00, she sympathizes with the nativists, inviting the Left crowd to imagine how would the Chinese feel if they found that within 20 years China would be majority white.
In short: I think she knows things, but can't spell them fully.Replies: @Percy Gryce, @vinteuil
I think there she was referring to her protege J. D. Vance, author of Hillbilly Elegy. If I am correct, then that is an even more damning statement because he graduated from Yale Law five years ago, so that she’s claiming that she’s only had one poor white student in the last five to eight years?!?
With the way AI/robotics has progressed, I doubt this is still true–if there was a market for it.
But regardless, if there’s a fruit “only humans” can pick and handle, that just means that’s a fruit that we do not need very much of–a luxury good.
Not just agriculture this is generally true. If you are producing some good/service and can’t find workers at the price you can pay… then you should go out of business. I.e. there is too much production of this good/service for demand. If it’s something that people *really* need, then people will pay the going rate for their fellow citizens’ labor to get it. It’s called a “labor market” for a reason.
Importing labor is never necessary. Importing low skilled, “cheap labor” from a foreign tribe to do work you don’t want to do–say picking cotton–is a short-sighted disaster. Importing low IQ, cheap, stoop labor from a foreign tribe–which will then proceed to breed inside your nation and dumb down your future–so that you can have your precious artesinal, free-range, organic strawberries is beyond parody and into sheer insanity.
Without wage slaves from Meximala, farmers will literally have to pay fair wages and literally have to hire thousands of Americans. You and I will litterally have to pay 5 cents more for an apple!!!!!Replies: @Alden
You mean 5 cents more per pound of apples.
When the advances in robotics and A.I. truly come to fruition, we will need many less farm workers than we do now. Hell, a robot will probably be driving the combines in the fields if they are safe to drive 18-wheelers on the interstates.Replies: @Anonymous, @Sleep, @Paul Jolliffe
Cherry and blueberry harvesting in Michigan is mostly automated:
It is the processed chemically laden food that is responsible for the large rise in obesity rates, and those foods are dirt cheap, in part because they are subsidized by the government. In general, nutritious food is more expensive. Eliminating all food subsidies has a better shot at reducing obesity rates rather than inflation, although Venezuela has managed to show that massive widespread inflation is great for a national population reaching some impressive weight loss goals.Replies: @Anonymous, @The Anti-Gnostic
.
This is constantly trotted out. Chicken, tilapia, ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, cabbage, dried beans, collared greens, etc. are all cheap. Many low-income people–gym rats, surf rats, grad students, religious ascetics–manage to eat perfectly healthy diets. It’s not poverty but ignorance or self-destructive habits that result in obesity.
There is no "food problem". Food is cheap. And that is a *good thing*. But it also means cheap available carbs are cheap. And when you couple that with people not having a whole lot of self-control, and not actually doing a bunch of physical labor anymore … they get fat. (Sugars circulating in the blood stream and not burned get turned into fat in reasonably short order.
Self control is the issue. Note, you actually have to go out and spend money for that other vector of modern American personal ugliness--tattoos. But people … go do it anyway! Actually spend money to make themselves uglier.
We have a discipline and IQ problem not a "cheap food" problem.
(And yeah, i need to lose 10 lbs and instead just finished dinner with a completely unnecessary spoon of ice cream.)Replies: @Precious
Because it is true.
Chicken, tilapia, ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, cabbage, dried beans, collared greens, etc. are all cheap.
The cheap versions of these foods italicized in your list can make you fat. Tilapia is questionable, but I haven't done enough research on it.
Many low-income people–gym rats, surf rats, grad students, religious ascetics–manage to eat perfectly healthy diets.
True but completely irrelevant to my point. My point, to refresh your memory, is that in general, nutritious foods are more expensive. Pointing out how cheap vegetables, rice and beans are is fine, but most people aren't going to just eat those.Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Jack D
Then there's the fact that the USA became the dominant world power during those decades...and experienced its apogee as a nation-state....
If that's not a golden age, it'll do until the real thing gets here....1924-1965 saw a lot of things improve for Black Americans: Lynching essentially came to an end, integration of the armed forces, Voting Rights Act of 1965, Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, ....And the Black family was in a hell of a lot better shape than it is now.....Replies: @Alden
And like Whites, any black could get some sort of unskilled job and survive.
Dishwashers may have been low paid but with low housing costs they could afford shelter food clothes and transportation.
Now the illegals have all those kind of jobs and their living expenses are covered by welfare so their pay is disposable income often sent to Mexico.
And Hispanics and Asians have been given most of the affirmative action jobs the baby boomer blacks had.
We import another 10 million immigrants into California. The resulting diversion of water to the cities for these new Dreamers depletes what little water California farmers are still allowed to have, causing "crops rotting, farmers filing bankruptcy, and massive food storages".Replies: @1661er, @Alden
One thing that’s happening now in California is that the coastal cities and metro areas are expanding into the agricultural valleys.
Farmland is rapidly being turned into nasty housing, industrial parks and business districts. Soon the metro areas will reach the eastern Sierra mountains and all the farm land will be gone.
No, it makes him sentient.
This period–basically my parents’ childhood, young adulthood and family formation period–was in fact a Golden Age for the average American *even with* the Great Depression and the War.
And the Great Depression had nothing to do with immigration but rather a very strong capitalist over-production cycle (in the factory electrification, and auto assembly-line technology boom) and a very poor response of central bankers and politicians to monetary contraction. Sure, if you were a young man who ended up at the bottom of Iron Bottom Sound, or in a cemetery, maybe it doesn’t look so “Golden Agey”.
But if you are a typical American who lived through this period in 1965, you are thinking *damn*, man has life gotten better during the last 40!
~
The incredible improvement and prosperity is what you get when you combine a high IQ, competent population, an adequate resource base and technological development … with a closed labor market–living standards shoot up.
And … we could have that again.
Obviously there is a lot of water under the bridge. But close off immigration. (Maybe give the President a quota of say 50,000 folks a year that he is willing to individually certify as being likely big contributors, healthy, intelligent, of good character and inclined and eager to integrate to American norms, values and culture.) Close immigration–and you’ll see housing prices immediately drop and wages immediately rise. Family formation will improve. And we can juice that with tax incentives, while simultaneously choke back on welfare and demand birth control for recipients to push us back toward eugenic improvement. Sure, we’ve got the cancer of minoritarianism making everything from education, employment sanity to finding a decent neighborhood more difficult. And we’re dumber. And more balkanized. It’s a long road back to sanity and freedom.
But cut off immigration, and prospects will start improving for the average American immediately. Prosperity will start breaking out all over. The future will be bright for Americans again.
But regardless, if there's a fruit "only humans" can pick and handle, that just means that's a fruit that we do not need very much of--a luxury good.
Not just agriculture this is generally true. If you are producing some good/service and can't find workers at the price you can pay... then you should go out of business. I.e. there is too much production of this good/service for demand. If it's something that people *really* need, then people will pay the going rate for their fellow citizens' labor to get it. It's called a "labor market" for a reason.
Importing labor is never necessary. Importing low skilled, "cheap labor" from a foreign tribe to do work you don't want to do--say picking cotton--is a short-sighted disaster. Importing low IQ, cheap, stoop labor from a foreign tribe--which will then proceed to breed inside your nation and dumb down your future--so that you can have your precious artesinal, free-range, organic strawberries is beyond parody and into sheer insanity.Replies: @Jack D
There IS a market for it and it is still true. The big strawberry growers in FL and CA are desperate for strawberry picking machines. But the AI is not as good as you think it is – YET. See the story linked above. It turns out that a bunch of strawberries randomly hidden amid the leaves and dappled shadows, some of which are ripe and some of which are half ripe and some of which are not ripe at all, is still a formidable challenge for today’s AI. You could tell any 9 year old “pick only the ripe strawberries and make sure you pick all of the ripe ones” and it would get it, but the computer is not up to this just yet. I’m sure they will get it eventually but it’s not there yet. The technology keeps getting better but some problems like this remain tantalizingly out of reach. Maybe they will have this solved in 2 years but maybe it will be 5 or 10 or 20.
Sounds like there are too darn many strawberry farmers planting too many strawberries for the prices that Americans want to pay.
(AnotherMom and AnotherChild#3 hit the u-pick farm last week. I've had enough damn strawberries for the year. I could live a long and happy life without seeing another.)
Why anyone would trash their nation for ... cheap fruit! ... absolutely beyond me. Nations are precious. Strawberries ... who gives a flying-rats-ass.Replies: @Jack D, @Daniel Chieh
Germany.
Ok then, strawberry picking tech is lagging.
Sounds like there are too darn many strawberry farmers planting too many strawberries for the prices that Americans want to pay.
(AnotherMom and AnotherChild#3 hit the u-pick farm last week. I’ve had enough damn strawberries for the year. I could live a long and happy life without seeing another.)
Why anyone would trash their nation for … cheap fruit! … absolutely beyond me. Nations are precious. Strawberries … who gives a flying-rats-ass.
Maybe it's no big deal to you to do away with the strawberry (and apples and cherries and blueberries, etc.) industry but it's a big deal to those whose business depends on them, to the consumers who love them, to the factories that make strawberry jam, etc. Which is not to say that they are automatically entitled to cheap foreign labor but you can't just dismiss a whole industry with a majestic swipe of your keyboard. Nor is it as simple as just raising wages - people who are willing to spend all day picking fruit don't magically appear. Cheap foreign labor is a tempting solution in part because the rest of the society doesn't give them a lot of alternatives. American blacks would rather sit in their northern ghettos and live on the government teat.Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @Hippopotamusdrome
Sounds like there are too darn many strawberry farmers planting too many strawberries for the prices that Americans want to pay.
(AnotherMom and AnotherChild#3 hit the u-pick farm last week. I've had enough damn strawberries for the year. I could live a long and happy life without seeing another.)
Why anyone would trash their nation for ... cheap fruit! ... absolutely beyond me. Nations are precious. Strawberries ... who gives a flying-rats-ass.Replies: @Jack D, @Daniel Chieh
You’re entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. We live in an age of technological wonders so it’s easy to assume that your strawberries are being picked by machine because grapes are, oranges are, etc. People are assuming inventions that don’t exist yet.
Maybe it’s no big deal to you to do away with the strawberry (and apples and cherries and blueberries, etc.) industry but it’s a big deal to those whose business depends on them, to the consumers who love them, to the factories that make strawberry jam, etc. Which is not to say that they are automatically entitled to cheap foreign labor but you can’t just dismiss a whole industry with a majestic swipe of your keyboard. Nor is it as simple as just raising wages – people who are willing to spend all day picking fruit don’t magically appear. Cheap foreign labor is a tempting solution in part because the rest of the society doesn’t give them a lot of alternatives. American blacks would rather sit in their northern ghettos and live on the government teat.
What we have is a difference of opinion. Well other, than where you're just plain spouting nonsense like:In fact, they do--although ok, yeah it isn't "magic", it's Adam Smith's "invisible hand". But you'll get a whole lot of strawberry pickers pretty much anywhere if you offer tempting wages. The reality that in modern America (with the millenlials who don't actually feel like working problem) that might take a pretty high wage--too bad.
If consumers do not want to pay the prices that are required to buy their yummy strawberries, then the more marginal strawberry producers should--are *supposed to*--go grow something else. (Maybe a berry that can be mechanically picked?) This is called "being in business". I come from a family of farmers--both my parents on the farm as kids. I'll go help my cousin with his corn come October. I have sympathy for the difficulties in price prediction and rolling the dice with a crop. But farming is not an entitlement. I'd like a new car. But i don't feel like paying new car prices. And no i do not support Ford and Chrysler and GM getting to import a bunch of Mexicans or Salvadorans or Indians or whoever so car prices can be whacked down to the level where i'll buy one.
"Stroke of my keyboard" or not, it's a business. And there's an American labor market. Business is supposed to make sound investment decisions based on all the inputs to their business. I can even muster some sympathy for guys who make reasonable guesses and get it wrong.
But "Hey, i got it wrong, and need cheaper labor so i can make money"--not only "no thanks", but "f.u.". Rising wages are a good thing, a desirable thing. They mean we're living better. The folks who keep trying to screw the rest of us, because they are crappy businessmen--or greedy businessmen--are scum.Replies: @Jack D
"Cheap slave labor is a tempting solution in part because the rest of the society doesn’t give them a lot of alternatives. American Indians would rather sit in their reservations and live on the government teat."
And it would be wrong for our government to tell people that they can't spend their food stamp money (to which the recipients are legally "entitled") on junk food - that would be nanny statism. Archer Daniels agrees with the ghetto activists on that.Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Joe Stalin
Good post. The sort of truth flood we’ll never see even a hint of in the MSM.
Maybe it's no big deal to you to do away with the strawberry (and apples and cherries and blueberries, etc.) industry but it's a big deal to those whose business depends on them, to the consumers who love them, to the factories that make strawberry jam, etc. Which is not to say that they are automatically entitled to cheap foreign labor but you can't just dismiss a whole industry with a majestic swipe of your keyboard. Nor is it as simple as just raising wages - people who are willing to spend all day picking fruit don't magically appear. Cheap foreign labor is a tempting solution in part because the rest of the society doesn't give them a lot of alternatives. American blacks would rather sit in their northern ghettos and live on the government teat.Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @Hippopotamusdrome
He never said do away with strawberries. He said they’re producing too many which is why they’re so cheap. And he’s right about that.
And it would be wrong for our government to tell people that they can't spend their food stamp money (to which the recipients are legally "entitled") on junk food - that would be nanny statism. Archer Daniels agrees with the ghetto activists on that.Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous, @Joe Stalin
The Illinois LINK card aka “food stamps”s $193/month per person. That is why there are NO malnourished children in Illinois.
This is constantly trotted out. Chicken, tilapia, ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, cabbage, dried beans, collared greens, etc. are all cheap. Many low-income people--gym rats, surf rats, grad students, religious ascetics--manage to eat perfectly healthy diets. It's not poverty but ignorance or self-destructive habits that result in obesity.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Precious
Exactly.
There is no “food problem”. Food is cheap. And that is a *good thing*. But it also means cheap available carbs are cheap. And when you couple that with people not having a whole lot of self-control, and not actually doing a bunch of physical labor anymore … they get fat. (Sugars circulating in the blood stream and not burned get turned into fat in reasonably short order.
Self control is the issue. Note, you actually have to go out and spend money for that other vector of modern American personal ugliness–tattoos. But people … go do it anyway! Actually spend money to make themselves uglier.
We have a discipline and IQ problem not a “cheap food” problem.
(And yeah, i need to lose 10 lbs and instead just finished dinner with a completely unnecessary spoon of ice cream.)
The poor man seems to think that the Great Depression in 1929 was triggered by restricting immigration in 1924...He also does not seem to be aware of the fact that the low immigration period of 1924-1965 was a veritable Golden Age for Anglo-America....Replies: @syonredux, @Mr. Anon, @ThreeCranes, @Numinous, @Digital Samizdat, @Jack D, @AnotherDad
He’s not retarded, just tribal and nasty.
Once upon a time a century back, some gentiles actually said “No–you can’t come here” to a Jew. And Podhoretz is pissed about it. That kind of disobedience from the serfs should not be allowed.
Maybe it's no big deal to you to do away with the strawberry (and apples and cherries and blueberries, etc.) industry but it's a big deal to those whose business depends on them, to the consumers who love them, to the factories that make strawberry jam, etc. Which is not to say that they are automatically entitled to cheap foreign labor but you can't just dismiss a whole industry with a majestic swipe of your keyboard. Nor is it as simple as just raising wages - people who are willing to spend all day picking fruit don't magically appear. Cheap foreign labor is a tempting solution in part because the rest of the society doesn't give them a lot of alternatives. American blacks would rather sit in their northern ghettos and live on the government teat.Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @Hippopotamusdrome
Lame lawyer b.s. Jack, you aren’t offering any “facts”–other than that mechanized strawberry picking is still struggling. (Which had nothing to do with the actual point of my previous comment.)
What we have is a difference of opinion. Well other, than where you’re just plain spouting nonsense like:
In fact, they do–although ok, yeah it isn’t “magic”, it’s Adam Smith’s “invisible hand”. But you’ll get a whole lot of strawberry pickers pretty much anywhere if you offer tempting wages. The reality that in modern America (with the millenlials who don’t actually feel like working problem) that might take a pretty high wage–too bad.
If consumers do not want to pay the prices that are required to buy their yummy strawberries, then the more marginal strawberry producers should–are *supposed to*–go grow something else. (Maybe a berry that can be mechanically picked?) This is called “being in business”. I come from a family of farmers–both my parents on the farm as kids. I’ll go help my cousin with his corn come October. I have sympathy for the difficulties in price prediction and rolling the dice with a crop. But farming is not an entitlement. I’d like a new car. But i don’t feel like paying new car prices. And no i do not support Ford and Chrysler and GM getting to import a bunch of Mexicans or Salvadorans or Indians or whoever so car prices can be whacked down to the level where i’ll buy one.
“Stroke of my keyboard” or not, it’s a business. And there’s an American labor market. Business is supposed to make sound investment decisions based on all the inputs to their business. I can even muster some sympathy for guys who make reasonable guesses and get it wrong.
But “Hey, i got it wrong, and need cheaper labor so i can make money”–not only “no thanks”, but “f.u.”. Rising wages are a good thing, a desirable thing. They mean we’re living better. The folks who keep trying to screw the rest of us, because they are crappy businessmen–or greedy businessmen–are scum.
I realize this is just greed, power, ethnic hatred, etc. etc.
Still one has to wonder. After the Zuckerbergian globalists–having gotten rid of borders and thus nations–turn the whole world into a shithole world … then what?
When the crops are rotting in the fields who do they call? Will they send an S.O.S. out toward Proxima Centari … “send us stoop labor; our strawberries are rotting in the fields!”
In his case, then, I wouldn't ascribe his advocacy to his greed or to his race. No, it's the nutty ideals instilled into him.
He probably watched too much Sesame Street. Everyone younger than Steve did, save the Amish.
Still one has to wonder. After the Zuckerbergian globalists--having gotten rid of borders and thus nations--turn the whole world into a shithole world ... then what?
When the crops are rotting in the fields who do they call? Will they send an S.O.S. out toward Proxima Centari ... "send us stoop labor; our strawberries are rotting in the fields!"Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Zuckerberg profits from a different source of cheap labor, H-1B. Mrs Zuckerberg is as Jewish as Mrs Derbyshire, and almost certainly doesn’t keep a kosher kitchen.
In his case, then, I wouldn’t ascribe his advocacy to his greed or to his race. No, it’s the nutty ideals instilled into him.
He probably watched too much Sesame Street. Everyone younger than Steve did, save the Amish.
Agree that subsidies should be phased out but fresh spinach is 59 cents a pound at my local grocery store.
Point taken, but two thirds of the population can’t sustain themselves on a diet largely based on fruits and vegetables. When we start talking about poultry and beef, the low priced stuff is loaded up with antibiotics, which food producers love to use because it supersizes the animals. Unfortunately those antibiotic-laced foods supersize the end consumer as well.
Once upon a time a century back, some gentiles actually said "No--you can't come here" to a Jew. And Podhoretz is pissed about it. That kind of disobedience from the serfs should not be allowed.Replies: @PiltdownMan
I wonder how long it will be before the following is edited out of Podhoretz’s Wikipedia entry.
The most interesting part of that story is that the British were using migrant Arab farm labor in the English countryside as early as the 1970s.
This is constantly trotted out. Chicken, tilapia, ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, cabbage, dried beans, collared greens, etc. are all cheap. Many low-income people--gym rats, surf rats, grad students, religious ascetics--manage to eat perfectly healthy diets. It's not poverty but ignorance or self-destructive habits that result in obesity.Replies: @AnotherDad, @Precious
This is constantly trotted out.
Because it is true.
Chicken, tilapia, ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, cabbage, dried beans, collared greens, etc. are all cheap.
The cheap versions of these foods italicized in your list can make you fat. Tilapia is questionable, but I haven’t done enough research on it.
Many low-income people–gym rats, surf rats, grad students, religious ascetics–manage to eat perfectly healthy diets.
True but completely irrelevant to my point. My point, to refresh your memory, is that in general, nutritious foods are more expensive. Pointing out how cheap vegetables, rice and beans are is fine, but most people aren’t going to just eat those.
Eggs are great too. And cheap.
Open any French or Italian cookbook. Most recipes were developed by peasants stretching calories and making them succulent.
I agree we have a big, and "big" problem with food in America but it's cultural rot, not that food is so expensive nobody can afford to make pollo alla cacciatora or coq au vin.Replies: @Precious
There is no "food problem". Food is cheap. And that is a *good thing*. But it also means cheap available carbs are cheap. And when you couple that with people not having a whole lot of self-control, and not actually doing a bunch of physical labor anymore … they get fat. (Sugars circulating in the blood stream and not burned get turned into fat in reasonably short order.
Self control is the issue. Note, you actually have to go out and spend money for that other vector of modern American personal ugliness--tattoos. But people … go do it anyway! Actually spend money to make themselves uglier.
We have a discipline and IQ problem not a "cheap food" problem.
(And yeah, i need to lose 10 lbs and instead just finished dinner with a completely unnecessary spoon of ice cream.)Replies: @Precious
There is no “food problem”. Food is cheap. And that is a *good thing*. But it also means cheap available carbs are cheap. And when you couple that with people not having a whole lot of self-control, and not actually doing a bunch of physical labor anymore … they get fat. (Sugars circulating in the blood stream and not burned get turned into fat in reasonably short order.
Self control is the issue. Note, you actually have to go out and spend money for that other vector of modern American personal ugliness–tattoos. But people … go do it anyway! Actually spend money to make themselves uglier. We have a discipline and IQ problem not a “cheap food” problem.
We also have a cheap food problem in addition to a discipline and IQ problem. Many cheap foods are chemically designed to keep you eating until you finish the whole package. Our bodies are designed to eat food until we have had enough calories, and this is keyed off our sense of taste, because not everyone gets a high IQ. The chemicals in the food are designed to appeal to our taste buds without triggering your body to be sated.
Yes, with proper discipline and a high enough IQ, you can avoid this trap. But that doesn’t change the fact that many processed foods these days are designed to trap you so you keep eating more and more and buying more and more.
I picked strawberries in the early 70s, the workforce included zero Egyptians or other foreigners but a fair proportion of gypsies or ‘Gyppos’, who certainly had a few tricks to increase the weight of their pick.
Might Rob MxX’s mate have been referring to them? The name is derived from ‘Egyptian’, and British soldiers in WW2/Suez used the term Gyppo to refer to Egyptians.
There’s a funny video out there of a farmer riding around in a GPS controlled thresher (?) with nothing to do, but he still likes farming, so he’s playing an online farming game.
Because it is true.
Chicken, tilapia, ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, cabbage, dried beans, collared greens, etc. are all cheap.
The cheap versions of these foods italicized in your list can make you fat. Tilapia is questionable, but I haven't done enough research on it.
Many low-income people–gym rats, surf rats, grad students, religious ascetics–manage to eat perfectly healthy diets.
True but completely irrelevant to my point. My point, to refresh your memory, is that in general, nutritious foods are more expensive. Pointing out how cheap vegetables, rice and beans are is fine, but most people aren't going to just eat those.Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Jack D
Correction: organic Japanese eggplant and quinoa aren’t cheap. Everything else is so cheap, even bodybuilders who do temp warehouse work and otherwise live in the gym can afford it.
Eggs are great too. And cheap.
Open any French or Italian cookbook. Most recipes were developed by peasants stretching calories and making them succulent.
I agree we have a big, and “big” problem with food in America but it’s cultural rot, not that food is so expensive nobody can afford to make pollo alla cacciatora or coq au vin.
First objection, most people don't have the level of discipline bodybuilders do. Second objection, the vast majority of bodybuilders are spending more money as a percentage of their income on their food budget then you realize...even the temp warehouse workers.
Eggs are great too. And cheap.
Absolutely true. If someone asked me for low-cost nutritious food choices, eggs are at or near the top of the list. However, the mass produced eggs from the factory farms are the cheap eggs and they don't have as much nutrition in them as the pasture raised eggs on the same shelf. Those pasture raised eggs are going to cost you a few dollars more, which was, of course, my original point.
I agree we have a big, and “big” problem with food in America but it’s cultural rot, not that food is so expensive nobody can afford
And here I agree with you too. It is cultural rot that food producers put junk on the store shelves and imply it is healthy, that the government puts up bogus meal pyramids and subsidizes the junk, and that many people just don't care. I didn't say that nutritious food is too expensive, I said that junk food is too cheap because, in part, the government subsidizes the junk food.
Around 7:10: Chua says racism is way overused today. No shit, isn't it what we have been saying for years? She returns to this at 12:00, 18:20 (making a good point), and 22:50.
Around 9:00: Chua says it's not productive to assume 60 million voters are evil and immoral (no shit). Goldberg chimes in to say that akshually, since we're in a terrible moment and Trump is a wayciss... FACEPALM.
Around 10:00, Chua talks about market dominant minorities while conspicuously ommiting the one most relevant in the American context. At 10:20, she even states America never had a market dominant minority, but is now headed to have one called "coastal elites". The chutzpah...
Around 11:20, a funny and good description of the Left's loss of support from low class whites. At 12:00, Goldberg asks (kinda skeptically) if these people have actual justification for their grievances. She gives a good answer, taking about the perspective of a poor white student in an elite university (nothing the iSteve crowd has not seen by themselves), starting at around 13:00.
Around 14:20, some inane question by Goldberg about worrying if there would be a point where America would no longer attract immigrants. Chua doesn't believe it will come to be so because institutions, and jabs young people who went to throw the baby with the bathwater because said institutions are not perfect (15:20).
15:30: Goldberg asks if she sees young progressives trying to change the Constitution (what? Second Amendment anyone?).
19:10, someone asks for examples of successful outreaches to the working class whites (Trump, anyone?). She answers that normal interaction with different people (not exposure, which is what the Left usually does) makes people more open-minded. She cites the US military in the 50s as a good example. Not super-convincing, but OK.
Around 21:10, she describes her effort to make students in her classes not to assume disagreeing students are xenophobic racists. Not sure how successful she has been.
21:40, a woman asks her how does she teach empathy (!!!) to groups that have those Appalachian whites who don't understand how epigenetics affects minorities (go there an check, I shit you not).
23:20, Chua on #meetoo and how it fosters tribalism.
24;00, Goldberg asks why she is so sure the Constitution is stronger than Trumpism. She goes on about the uniqueness of the American Constitution and the rarity of birthright citizenship (forgetting it exists in all of Latin America, but I digress), and America is different for not being a country with a singular ethnic identity.
26:00, she sympathizes with the nativists, inviting the Left crowd to imagine how would the Chinese feel if they found that within 20 years China would be majority white.
In short: I think she knows things, but can't spell them fully.Replies: @Percy Gryce, @vinteuil
Thanks – good summary.
Yes, that was one for the annals of the unintentionally hilarious.
Exactly. And one of the things she knows is just how far she can go – and she keeps two or three steps back from that line. But she knows…things.
At 55, she shouldn’t be dressing like that.
They are working on strawberry picking machines but it is a difficult challenge. I am confident that they will overcome the challenge someday as they have for so many other crops but none of these machines are ready for production so the strawberries that you buy are all hand picked.Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Stan d Mute, @vinteuil
If you want half-way decent strawberries, you pretty much have to grow them (& pick them) yourself. Store-bought strawberries, no matter how pretty they look, taste exactly like store-bought tomatoes – i.e., like styrofoam.
The fact that they breed strawberry-like objects that can stand shipping for 3,000 miles and that you can get them all year is a miracle of modern plant breeding but something (flavor, texture, the future of America) has to give in order to deliver this miracle (strawberries in January!) to you.Replies: @Jim Don Bob
What’s that supposed to mean? The depression in the Germany economy was clearly an effect of the depression in America. If the latter hadn’t happened, the former wouldn’t have either.
That might work with your beer buddies. Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for a logical argument, if you are capable of providing one.
Because it is true.
Chicken, tilapia, ground beef, brown rice, broccoli, cabbage, dried beans, collared greens, etc. are all cheap.
The cheap versions of these foods italicized in your list can make you fat. Tilapia is questionable, but I haven't done enough research on it.
Many low-income people–gym rats, surf rats, grad students, religious ascetics–manage to eat perfectly healthy diets.
True but completely irrelevant to my point. My point, to refresh your memory, is that in general, nutritious foods are more expensive. Pointing out how cheap vegetables, rice and beans are is fine, but most people aren't going to just eat those.Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Jack D
Nowadays even cheap chicken is antibiotic free. It doesn’t have much taste but nutritionally it is exactly the same as the expensive stuff. Anyway, even eating antibiotic laden chicken doesn’t make you fat. Eating more calories than you burn is what makes you fat.
In 2017, the FDA changed the guidelines for antibiotic use in livestock, but the jury is still out on whether or not cheap chicken is antibiotic free.
It doesn’t have much taste but nutritionally it is exactly the same as the expensive stuff.
Nutrition is identified by us by taste unless you chemically modify the food to appeal to taste. So if something doesn't have much taste, then it doesn't have much nutrition. If it does, indeed, have the same nutrition as the expensive stuff, then the expensive stuff doesn't have much nutrition either.
Anyway, even eating antibiotic laden chicken doesn’t make you fat.
Everyone should read up on how antibiotics cause weight gain and decide for themselves. Or better yet, if they aren't happy with their current weight, try to eliminate any foods laden with antibiotics and see whether or not it makes a difference.
Sounds like there are too darn many strawberry farmers planting too many strawberries for the prices that Americans want to pay.
(AnotherMom and AnotherChild#3 hit the u-pick farm last week. I've had enough damn strawberries for the year. I could live a long and happy life without seeing another.)
Why anyone would trash their nation for ... cheap fruit! ... absolutely beyond me. Nations are precious. Strawberries ... who gives a flying-rats-ass.Replies: @Jack D, @Daniel Chieh
I should add that I do not support immigration to get fruit pickers. The only reason why I even added to the thread is that I do work with automation, and I get quite frustrated with hyping up automation/mechanization as it has many challenges. There is a reason why the “dark factory” has not been successful, and in fact it may very well be cost-prohibitive; human brains may very well be cheaper than the processing needed to run effective optical analysis. We’ve not been able to replicate flatworm behavior with networked cloud computers running a bit over 5 teraflops of data, for example despite total emulation of its neural system. Biological systems have remarkable efficiency.
The Singularity is not coming in our lifetime(though machine learning will indeed impact our life greatly), no matter how much Ray Kurzweil keeps fapping in public for it.
At any rate, I have a great idea sure to make everyone happy. If biological systems are more efficient at recognition, it should be possible to train a Mexican fruit picker to accurately and repeatedly recognize strawberries and then record the part of his brain that lights up. You can then remove his brain from his body, import it, and use it as the strawberry guidance system for a harvester.
Everyone wins: immigration, farmers, nativists.
Add any form of decision making into it, and the complexities multiply.
Agreed. Around here (PA) for a brief time in June you can get local strawberries that are half decent (and pricey) but even those don’t have all of the flavor and sweetness of the home grown breeds. Some of those are so tender that they bruise on the way from your garden to the kitchen so there’s no hope of getting them to market.
The fact that they breed strawberry-like objects that can stand shipping for 3,000 miles and that you can get them all year is a miracle of modern plant breeding but something (flavor, texture, the future of America) has to give in order to deliver this miracle (strawberries in January!) to you.
An excellent example of this, in fact, is one of the best known success stories of machine learning: learning how to read handwriting on checks. This was a bounded problem set with very controlled input, clear right and wrong answers, supervised learning(with human guidance, of course) and a significant amount of manual coding: this problem took arguably over twenty-five years to solve but is still defeated by captcha anti-botting systems.
Add any form of decision making into it, and the complexities multiply.
Farmer: Without illegal immigrants, strawberry farms fail
What we have is a difference of opinion. Well other, than where you're just plain spouting nonsense like:In fact, they do--although ok, yeah it isn't "magic", it's Adam Smith's "invisible hand". But you'll get a whole lot of strawberry pickers pretty much anywhere if you offer tempting wages. The reality that in modern America (with the millenlials who don't actually feel like working problem) that might take a pretty high wage--too bad.
If consumers do not want to pay the prices that are required to buy their yummy strawberries, then the more marginal strawberry producers should--are *supposed to*--go grow something else. (Maybe a berry that can be mechanically picked?) This is called "being in business". I come from a family of farmers--both my parents on the farm as kids. I'll go help my cousin with his corn come October. I have sympathy for the difficulties in price prediction and rolling the dice with a crop. But farming is not an entitlement. I'd like a new car. But i don't feel like paying new car prices. And no i do not support Ford and Chrysler and GM getting to import a bunch of Mexicans or Salvadorans or Indians or whoever so car prices can be whacked down to the level where i'll buy one.
"Stroke of my keyboard" or not, it's a business. And there's an American labor market. Business is supposed to make sound investment decisions based on all the inputs to their business. I can even muster some sympathy for guys who make reasonable guesses and get it wrong.
But "Hey, i got it wrong, and need cheaper labor so i can make money"--not only "no thanks", but "f.u.". Rising wages are a good thing, a desirable thing. They mean we're living better. The folks who keep trying to screw the rest of us, because they are crappy businessmen--or greedy businessmen--are scum.Replies: @Jack D
I think you will be interested to know that the main sponsor of the research for the strawberry picking machine is Wish Farms, owned by the Wishnatzki family. Back in the old anti-Semitic America, they were known as Wishnatzki & Nathel and they carefully hid their religious affiliation and northern connections from the horrible white Confederate-Nazis who were their neighbors, suppliers and customers in Plant City, FL:
but in the New America they have rebranded themselves as Wish Farms.
Mr. Wishnatzki has no fonder wish than to be able to get rid of his entire work force, immigrant or otherwise and turn the strawberry picking over to the robots who will work all night (the best time to pick because the berries are cooler) and never file workmen’s comp claims or ask for pay raises. He is spending millions sponsoring this research. You can be sure that Mr. W reads the newspaper and has seen the Trumpian handwriting on the wall. As for you, be careful what you WISH for or you just might get it, good and hard.
But companies basically have no motivation for anything beyond profit. The best way to modify their behavior, most likely, is to give them subsidies for desired behavior. One way or another, they will take their pound of flesh.
Maybe it's no big deal to you to do away with the strawberry (and apples and cherries and blueberries, etc.) industry but it's a big deal to those whose business depends on them, to the consumers who love them, to the factories that make strawberry jam, etc. Which is not to say that they are automatically entitled to cheap foreign labor but you can't just dismiss a whole industry with a majestic swipe of your keyboard. Nor is it as simple as just raising wages - people who are willing to spend all day picking fruit don't magically appear. Cheap foreign labor is a tempting solution in part because the rest of the society doesn't give them a lot of alternatives. American blacks would rather sit in their northern ghettos and live on the government teat.Replies: @Anonymous, @AnotherDad, @Hippopotamusdrome
Yesterdays imported cheap farm labor LOL.
“Cheap slave labor is a tempting solution in part because the rest of the society doesn’t give them a lot of alternatives. American Indians would rather sit in their reservations and live on the government teat.”
Right, much like Bezos who ultimately wants to replace all his warehouse workers with machines. He does not care for Americans, non-American immigrants or for that matter, your dog. An ideal workplace is one with minimal number of humans with their annoying need to sleep, eat and poop; the same motivation drove GM to massively invest in for fully automated factories in the late 1980s to early 1990s, and this failed only because it turned out that humans are much better at catching defects and not accidentally inflicting defects on product.
But companies basically have no motivation for anything beyond profit. The best way to modify their behavior, most likely, is to give them subsidies for desired behavior. One way or another, they will take their pound of flesh.
https://news.psu.edu/story/405843/2016/04/21/research/engineers-working-better-blueberry-pickerSince you stressed it, I decided to look into attitudes by agri on this from a fairly recent date, which provided this as of 2/2018.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323406692_Blueberry_Producers'_Attitudes_toward_Harvest_Mechanization_for_Fresh_MarketSo, no, its not like there's a conspiracy against it. Its still just not quite viable yet. Go tell them to google.Replies: @notanon
right but the other side of that equation is when you have limitless cheap labor there’s less incentive to improve the machines
need to bear in mind the media are shills for open borders
a typical work crew if and only if paid at cheap labor rates currently out competes a machine
i’d say there wasn’t an immigration freeze in the years running up to 2008 – the exact opposite in fact.
importing cheap labor to do work that is too low productivity to attract native labor is inherently bad – economically speaking it’s going backwards.
so you’re right imo.
Eggs are great too. And cheap.
Open any French or Italian cookbook. Most recipes were developed by peasants stretching calories and making them succulent.
I agree we have a big, and "big" problem with food in America but it's cultural rot, not that food is so expensive nobody can afford to make pollo alla cacciatora or coq au vin.Replies: @Precious
Everything else is so cheap, even bodybuilders who do temp warehouse work and otherwise live in the gym can afford it.
First objection, most people don’t have the level of discipline bodybuilders do. Second objection, the vast majority of bodybuilders are spending more money as a percentage of their income on their food budget then you realize…even the temp warehouse workers.
Eggs are great too. And cheap.
Absolutely true. If someone asked me for low-cost nutritious food choices, eggs are at or near the top of the list. However, the mass produced eggs from the factory farms are the cheap eggs and they don’t have as much nutrition in them as the pasture raised eggs on the same shelf. Those pasture raised eggs are going to cost you a few dollars more, which was, of course, my original point.
I agree we have a big, and “big” problem with food in America but it’s cultural rot, not that food is so expensive nobody can afford
And here I agree with you too. It is cultural rot that food producers put junk on the store shelves and imply it is healthy, that the government puts up bogus meal pyramids and subsidizes the junk, and that many people just don’t care. I didn’t say that nutritious food is too expensive, I said that junk food is too cheap because, in part, the government subsidizes the junk food.
Nowadays even cheap chicken is antibiotic free.
In 2017, the FDA changed the guidelines for antibiotic use in livestock, but the jury is still out on whether or not cheap chicken is antibiotic free.
It doesn’t have much taste but nutritionally it is exactly the same as the expensive stuff.
Nutrition is identified by us by taste unless you chemically modify the food to appeal to taste. So if something doesn’t have much taste, then it doesn’t have much nutrition. If it does, indeed, have the same nutrition as the expensive stuff, then the expensive stuff doesn’t have much nutrition either.
Anyway, even eating antibiotic laden chicken doesn’t make you fat.
Everyone should read up on how antibiotics cause weight gain and decide for themselves. Or better yet, if they aren’t happy with their current weight, try to eliminate any foods laden with antibiotics and see whether or not it makes a difference.
Correct. Which is why subsidies for mechanization is probably the best way about it and get buy-in.
yes – that needs to be the other side of the equation
…in the New America they have rebranded themselves as Wish Farms.
Can’t really blame a Jewish company for going with “Wish” rather than WishNAtZkI.”
The fact that they breed strawberry-like objects that can stand shipping for 3,000 miles and that you can get them all year is a miracle of modern plant breeding but something (flavor, texture, the future of America) has to give in order to deliver this miracle (strawberries in January!) to you.Replies: @Jim Don Bob
I remember picking strawberries at a U-pick-em place near Wilmington when I was a teenager, and they were good. Modern ones not so much. Same thing with tomatos. You can now get both all year round just without too much flavor.
They stuck with Wishnatzki and their 6 pointed star trademark for 60 years after the rise of Hitler but maybe in the new diverse (more Muslim) America they decided is wasn’t really a good idea anymore.
I bought one of those by mistake a while ago. It tasted and smelled of bleach, even after cooking. I threw it away uneaten.