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A Mismatch Theory for the Black Autumn
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Stuart Taylor Jr. offers a mismatch theory for the Black Autumn in The American Spectator:

Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically for (say) the top Ivy League colleges. Therefore, those schools can meet their racial admissions targets only by using large preferences. They bring in black students who are well qualified for moderately elite schools like (say) the University of North Carolina, but not for the Ivies that recruit them. This leaves schools like UNC able to meet their own racial targets only by giving large preferences to black students who are well qualified for less selective schools like (say) the University of Missouri but not for UNC. And so on down the selectivity scale.

As a result, experts agree, most black students at even moderately selective schools — with high school preparation and test scores far below those of their classmates — rank well below the middle of their college and grad school classes, with between 25% and 50% ranking in the bottom tenth. That’s a very bad place to be at any school.

This, in turn, increases these students’ isolation and self-segregation from the higher-achieving Asians and whites who flourish in more challenging courses. At least one careful study shows that students are more likely to become friends with peers who are similar in academic accomplishment.

Put yourself in the position of many Hispanic and especially black students (recipients of by far the largest racial preferences) at selective schools, who may work heroically during the first semester only to be lost in many classroom discussions and dismayed by their grades.

As they start to see the gulf between their own performance and that of most of their fellow students, dismay can become despair. They soon realize that no matter how hard they work, they will struggle academically.

It is critical to understand that these are not bad students.

But they also aren’t really good students, so the ideas articulated by protesters aren’t very intellectually impressive. In contrast, back in the 1960s, campus radicals were heavily Jewish. So the reigning theories, while puerile, were at least clever. And the clever radicals tended to attract some hot babes. So the Sixties were a big deal, because beautiful young women are always a big deal, as is whatever they think is cool at the moment.

In contrast, the shrieking black coeds of 2015 tend to be neither clever nor hot. And everybody kind of realizes that, deep down, that’s what they are shrieking about — their lack of either cleverness or hotness. But who wants to point that out and get shrieked at yourself? But the shrieking black coeds can kind of sense that they are coming across as thick, mentally and physically, which just makes them shriek louder: a feedback cycle.

But that raises the question of: Why Now?

Perhaps Mexican history can offer a clue. The central element of the Mexican political system is the six year term limit on the presidency. This gives each faction in Mexican politics hope: just live long enough and your guy will get to cut you in on the loot. But sometimes when the current faction in office is getting term limited out, as in 1976, 1982, and 1994, Mexico melts down as all the president’s men maneuver to set themselves up for post-presidential careers and lucre.

Maybe what’s going on at present — the Liberal Meltdown of 2015 — is that various timeservers in the Obama administration are trying to cause ruckuses on campus for which they’ll be seen as The Solution and get themselves hired for academic administration jobs?

 
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  1. Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically

    It’s likely that Stuart is misreading the data.

    The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education reports:

    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test. They made up 10.4 percent of all SAT test takers. But only 1,132 African-American college-bound students scored 700 or above on the math SAT and only 1,205 scored at least 700 on the verbal SAT. Nationally, more than 100,000 students of all races scored 700 or above on the math SAT and 78,025 students scored 700 or above on the verbal SAT. Thus, in this top-scoring category of all SAT test takers, blacks made up only 1.1 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the math test and only 1.5 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the verbal SAT. . . . .

    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation’s most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

    Once again, if we eliminate Asians and other minorities from the calculations and compare only blacks and whites, we find that 0.2 percent of all black test takers scored 750 or above on the verbal SAT compared to 2.2 percent of all white test takers. Thus, whites were 11 times as likely as blacks to score 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Overall, there were 49 times as many whites as blacks who scored at or above the 750 level.

    On the math SAT, only 0.16 percent of all black test takers scored 750 or above compared to 1.8 percent of white test takers. Thus, whites were more than 11 times as likely as blacks to score 750 or above on the math SAT. Overall, there were more than 61 times as many whites as blacks who scored 750 or above on the math section of the SAT.

    ~1% of those scoring above 700, not 1% of all students.

    Bonus fact: In terms of predictive validity, the SAT over-predicts black First Year academic performance according to the EPS technical bulletin.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    @TangoMan

    It is interesting that fewer blacks scored above 700 (or 750) on the math portion of the test than scored above that similar cutoff mark for the verbal portion of the test.

    It that sense they seem more skewed towards verbal intelligence than math, perhaps like another group we know of.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Olorin
    @TangoMan

    Thank you for saving me having to do this.

    "in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test."

    And what is the overlap of these two categories? Likely fairly strong, meaning that, each year, only a few hundred blacks score at the highest level of some 30,000 students of other races.

    This is absolutely consistent with what IQ distributions would predict, far as I can tell.

    , @ben tillman
    @TangoMan


    Bonus fact: In terms of predictive validity, the SAT over-predicts black First Year academic performance according to the EPS technical bulletin.
     
    La Griffe du Lion explained this a long time ago.
  2. This is exactly why affirmative action is such a disservice to the minority students it is intended to help. I would argue that there is a relatively low correlation between the university one attends and success, broadly defined. Certainly lower than the correlation between career choice and success.

    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton. You want to be an engineer but you are absolutely lost in your initial physics classes. It’s not because you are stupid. You are quite intelligent, just not nearly as intelligent as the white and Asian students in your class, because they are held to a higher admissions standard. You change majors, and get a degree in Communications, or some similarly less challenging field where you can keep up with the class material. Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Who’s going to have the more successful career? The Communications major from Princeton or the Florida State engineer? And what is the psychological impact of 4-5 years of being hopelessly behind in your classes, rather than being confidently able to master your studies, albeit at a less prestigious school?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    But Princeton is vastly richer than Florida State, and Princeton doesn't like its blacks not doing well, so you'll get lots more free tutoring at Princeton.

    I think mismatch theory tended to be truer 40 years ago, but rich colleges have gotten so rich that they tend to have ways of getting black students through.

    And at Princeton, maybe you switch to econ and go work on Wall Street as a salesman and make a lot more money than if you were an engineer.

    Replies: @lk, @cwhatfuture

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton... Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.
     
    Yeah, but the hazing might kill you.

    Oh, wait... that's at A&M, across town.
    , @BurplesonAFB
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    An AfAm with a degree from Princeton, any degree, has a surer shot at getting on the diversity gravy train than does an engineer from Prole State.

    Michelle Obama was making $500k a year as Senior VP of Diversity (or some such nonsense) at a hospital in Chicago. When she left to live in the white house, they replaced her with nobody.

    Replies: @JerryC

    , @Boomstick
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    For an undergraduate engineering degree I don't think the school makes much of a difference in earning potential. State U has a fine engineering program that will get you a good paying job for cheap tuition., provided you can keep up in classes. At the graduate level it starts making a difference.

    Princeton does have an engineering department devoted to Operations Research and Financial Engineering. Combined with the connections at Princeton, and maybe a minor in Econ, that sounds like a license to print money.

    Replies: @lk

    , @E. Rekshun
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Perhaps, but in reality, as I recall from my graduate studies there, there are zero black Engineering students at Florida State. None at the University of Florida either.

    Replies: @Boomstick

    , @Former Darfur
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Engineering jobs are not all highly rigorous and many of them don't even involve actual designing. I worked for an electronics firm whose core competency was its leading edge use of DSP, and they had a group of really first rate engineers and programmers doing that-three or four of them-and seven or eight other engineers that did the support stuff like power supplies, the analog sections, ISO-9000 paperwork, component specification, etc. Most of that was stuff that any really determined hobbyist or field tech could have done with a little occasional direction from one good engineer-it was all cookbook stuff, strung together from app manuals and schematics of other companies' designs. For the guys they hired for those positions, most with degrees from bottom tier schools (we actually had one guy who had earned a degree from the old mail order Cook's Institute of Electronc Engineering, a correspondence school advertising in ham radio and audiophile magazines) they found the work fun and far more to their liking than what a Communications or Poli Sci degree would have prepared them for.

    Indeed, there are "sales engineering" and "support engineering" jobs that are actually just regular old sales or technician jobs but which the companies feel the need to hire people with degrees in engineering for. Maintaining MRI machines is a good example-it's a technician/mechanic job, but because of the cost of the machine and perceived liability they only hire degreed EEs or EET's (an EET is essentially a glorified technician with a little more math and some basic design tasks: they have heard of a Bode plot and poles and zeroes and margins of stability, but can't usually really apply it to any very complex network: they can tell you what the Smith Chart is and the basic ideas, etc.) for the job. No real design engineer is going to want a job like that.

    For those jobs, the smarter blacks are sometimes well suited. None of them is going to do what a Bob Widlar or a Barrie Gilbert is going to. I'm sure the situation in mechanical or aeronautical is similar: aeroelasticity and flutter are one thing, drawing up a shelf for a coffeemaker that attaches to bulkheads is another.

    Replies: @cthulhu

  3. Now there is a trickle down theory that actually seems to hold up.

    Several years ago, I had the chance to view some academic results of the graduating class of a “high performing” charter school in the Bronx. The school was 99% NAM. I saw, for each student, (no names) results on state exams, the PSAT and SAT, but also where they got accepted to college.

    Three things jumped out. One, the SAT scores were really low, two, students had nonetheless been accepted at some pretty good schools, Vermont, Holy Cross, BC, and others. Three, the founder of the school pointed out that by the best student at the school had not gotten into her first choice, Fordham (located in the Bronx). My take on her explanation for this is that there were a lot more “qualified” minorities within commuting distance of Fordham than there were in Vermont.

  4. “Maybe what’s going on at present — the Liberal Meltdown of 2015 — is that various timeservers in the Obama administration are trying to cause ruckuses on campus for which they’ll be seen as The Solution and get themselves hired for academic administration jobs?”

    Sensible, but I don’t know if enough of them have academic backgrounds.

    Here’s my theory: the media wants to get blacks, women, and other traditionally Democratic groups riled up for the 2016 election. Hillary’s not looking so hot, and they figure every vote counts. (Note also that Missouri is a swing state.) So, play up a few things that you think will get people turning out, and Hillary wins again.

    I’d also add the 60s campus radicals also had to be afraid of being sent to Vietnam and dying, so their protests may have seemed a little more serious. And, in terms of cultural heft, they had much better music.

    • Replies: @ShouldWeCare
    @SFG

    I appreciate your comment about Hillary and the upcoming election, but when has lack of credentials and experience ever stopped Blacks from becoming affirmative action hires? In fact, hiring unqualified people is the whole purpose behind affirmative action ... raw numbers and skin color counting more than competence.

    If we can believe the Black student protestors, just seeing Black administrators sitting behind mahogany desks will increase their sense of safety and feelings of inclusiveness. If the statistics about their relatively low academic place among student populations are true, they might also privately hope that Black administrators will be more sympathetic to their plight and be more likely to let them slide on poor grades.

    None of this is new. In the 1960s, the midwestern state university I attended broke ranks and went outside the state to urban Black ghettos to recruit a number of students on full scholarship (it was otherwise against university policy to award full scholarships). Within a year or two, few of these recruits were still at the university. However, one (also on the way out for failing grades) disrupted an anti-Vietnam War rally in the student union with the complaint that it was the university that was responsible for his failing grades because it had failed to educate him. At least in that era, there was a professor with enough guts to take the podium and give the Black student a lecture on personal responsibility.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @SFG

    "Sensible, but I don’t know if enough of them have academic backgrounds."

    It doesn't much matter. Janet Napolitano had no professional background in academia and she is now President of the University of California system. Universities now have little to do with scholarship. They are machines for extracting money from parents and the government - self perpetuating institutions, busy about the task of perpetuating themselves. So scholars aren't really needed to administer them.

    Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    , @Bill Jones
    @SFG

    Lack of any educational background whatsoever was no barrier to Barry's giant lesbian golem Janet Napolitano becoming President of the University of California.

  5. “Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically for (say) the top Ivy League colleges.”

    More innumeracy.

    I just wrote a whole post discussing what TangoMan just presented before I noticed his comment, so I won’t repeat it. But in my anecdotal experience, I’ve never met a black person that could handle even mid-tier engineering (i.e. engineering at a state school rather than MIT/CalTech, etc). I’m sure they exist, but they are exceedingly rare (and are snatched up by MIT/CalTech etc). (a quick discussion of the numbers: 244 blacks exceed 750 on the math portion of the SAT. Split them between high end colleges, then physics, economics, math, engineering, computer science, other sciences, and even business throughout the country. How many are likely to study electrical engineering at Colorado State or Alabama? The pool is exceedingly small).

    I suspect even race realists don’t really grok, at a deep level, what the different Bell Curves for whites and blacks means for higher (not just highest, but even slightly higher) academic performance.

    joeyjoejoe

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @joeyjoejoe

    If I were a young black guy with a 780 math score and a strong work ethic, I'd be thinking Wharton finance major undergrad, Harvard Business School, Goldman Sachs, and retire at 45 with a bundle. Maybe I wouldn't be a star at Goldman and they would spin me off to some corporate client needing a smart black guy, but in any case that's a lot more lucrative career path than engineering.

    , @Big Bill
    @joeyjoejoe

    La Griffe du Lion, my personal hero, has written at length about the tail effects. Anyone who is interested should go to his website and read up. After reading two or three of his essays I felt like I was force-fed the red pill. Eternal thanks, Griffie.

    , @ben tillman
    @joeyjoejoe


    But in my anecdotal experience, I’ve never met a black person that could handle even mid-tier engineering (i.e. engineering at a state school rather than MIT/CalTech, etc). I’m sure they exist, but they are exceedingly rare (and are snatched up by MIT/CalTech etc).
     
    Here's a counter-anecdote, I know a Black guy with engineering degrees from Purdue and Georgia Tech. He's in venture capital now.
  6. Taylor has this right. The Washington Post does an article every few years about a top graduate from a local public school who goes to Georgetown and discovers that their level of education is years behind the rest of their peers. To the best of my knowledge, the paper never follows up to see if the subject graduates on time, how long it takes, or their major. I’m guessing they don’t want to know.

  7. One of the myths in this piece is the assertion that classroom life at an Ivy is as tough as the admissions process. Anyone who has had experience on an Ivy campus, or any of the New Ivies for that matter, will tell you it is not much different from the average state campus, in terms of classroom difficulty. There’s a reason why the graduation rates are close to 100% at these schools. The vetting is all done at admissions. After that, the only way to fail is not show up or commit a crime.

    The example he uses, UNC versus an Ivy, is a good one. At UNC, a student will get far less hand-holding than at an Ivy. Certainly cherished students will get loads of help everywhere, but a white kid can go through UNC anonymously. You can’t do that at an Ivy or even at a Northwestern or Boston College.

    Now, it may be that these students brought in under the sacred student policies are a cultural mismatch. At an Ivy, the undergrad population is going to be foreign kids and apple polishers, obsessed with gaining credentials. No one is keeping is realz. At a UNC, there’s a whole department for keeping it realz and a string emphasis on keeping it realz.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @The Z Blog

    Right, these days "mismatch" at elite colleges is more about psychological unease than about flunking out.

    I'd be interested, however, in the pre-med track, which pretty much requires surviving a class in organic chemistry that demands immense amounts of memorization. Where are blacks with the same test scores and high school grades more likely to fall off the premed track? A school where they got in on affirmative action or a school where they are in the broad middle of premeds?

    Replies: @Anon, @The Z Blog, @TK421

    , @Big Bill
    @The Z Blog

    As they say at Harvard Law School, "Pay your fees and make your Bs".

  8. I tend to think the kids are doing this because the society (the NY Times, T. Genius Coates, Twitter, etc) is telling them it’s a Good Thing to Do.

    Look, you go to your average integrated public high school and it’s not like every black girl in your class is going to be a source of panic and disruption. Plenty will be quiet and studious- there’s a reason the percentage of black girls attending college keeps going up. Many of them won’t have the skills to graduate from their local community college, let alone Princeton or Yale, but they’re doing their best, and not pinning the principal in his office and screaming about oppression.

    Later, I taught at one of the Black Automn places, including one of the girls in the background of one of the videos. She was okay as a student, enthusiastic if distractable in class and not quite at the bottom of the class on tests. (Because of just how strong Asian and nerdy white students are at these places, but how many disaffected jocks there also are, the distribution of grades tends to be very very wide on any test with objective content.) There were better black students in previous years, in the upper half of the distribution even.

    But when she and one of her friends stayed after class one day discussing their plans for the next few days, it was clear that it was one event in the Oppression Olympics after another, a continuous round of low-level protest and consciousness raising, all paid for by university budget and facilitated by university staff. Meanwhile, the President was already abasing himself on racial issues on a regular basis, sending out horiffically contrite emails in response to the most anodyne occurrences and being confronted by brigades of students for not being contrite enough even then. The sense of entitlement has been deliberately cultivated over years and years. And now the protesters are just repeating the same words they hear in every corner of respectable opinion ( http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/magazine/white-debt.html?referer=
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/opinion/the-case-against-woodrow-wilson-at-princeton.html

    )

    Now that we have a prestige media that speaks with one voice, endorsing views on race that only wacky 19-year-old activists used to old, now that old gray-haired college administrators are on board with reparations as a Genius idea, what are wacky 19-year-old activists going to do? They have to just get louder and more threatening, just to stand out.

  9. I don’t think that this is being driven by lame-duck Obama Administration apparatchiks–they can burrow into the Civil Service fairly easily, and if they don’t, Hillary is a pretty strong favorite to keep the Administration Democratic and racial-grievance-monger friendly. (It’s possible, but not probable, that Trump can mobilize enough white non-college non-voters to get him over the top.)

    My guess is that this is what happens when the Millenium is a letdown. Obama’s election is the Kingdom Come of the integrationist project–remember the crowd chanting “Race doesn’t matter!” after Obama won South Carolina? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/26/AR2008012601018.html) Obama is the first black president–and the last “First Black Anything” of any consequence. It’s the end of the road.

    But on the ground, not much has changed. Black average IQ is still 1 SD or so below white average. Black college students are still competing with classmates with much higher SATs. Lower IQ, higher testosterone and lower time orientation mean more black criminals, which means more black criminals getting killed by cops.

    It’s analogous to the urban riots of the 60s following the Civil Rights Act. (And as an equal opportunity pessimist, I’m already concerned about a Trump Presidency. Charles Schumer will still have 45 or so Senate seats and prevent anything from getting done–what do the folks now slinging around the term cuckservative do then?)

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Discordiax

    Keep electing more better Republicans, it's got to work any day now.

    , @Bill
    @Discordiax

    They aren't going to burrow into the Civil Service. You know the GS scale tops out around 160K, right? They have had eight years to do favors for big pharma or insurance or banks or whomever. They now get to go collect their payment.


    And as an equal opportunity pessimist, I’m already concerned about a Trump Presidency. Charles Schumer will still have 45 or so Senate seats and prevent anything from getting done–what do the folks now slinging around the term cuckservative do then?
     
    My plan is to continue posting bilious but ultimately futile comments on the internets.
  10. @SFG
    "Maybe what’s going on at present — the Liberal Meltdown of 2015 — is that various timeservers in the Obama administration are trying to cause ruckuses on campus for which they’ll be seen as The Solution and get themselves hired for academic administration jobs?"

    Sensible, but I don't know if enough of them have academic backgrounds.

    Here's my theory: the media wants to get blacks, women, and other traditionally Democratic groups riled up for the 2016 election. Hillary's not looking so hot, and they figure every vote counts. (Note also that Missouri is a swing state.) So, play up a few things that you think will get people turning out, and Hillary wins again.


    I'd also add the 60s campus radicals also had to be afraid of being sent to Vietnam and dying, so their protests may have seemed a little more serious. And, in terms of cultural heft, they had much better music.

    Replies: @ShouldWeCare, @Mr. Anon, @Bill Jones

    I appreciate your comment about Hillary and the upcoming election, but when has lack of credentials and experience ever stopped Blacks from becoming affirmative action hires? In fact, hiring unqualified people is the whole purpose behind affirmative action … raw numbers and skin color counting more than competence.

    If we can believe the Black student protestors, just seeing Black administrators sitting behind mahogany desks will increase their sense of safety and feelings of inclusiveness. If the statistics about their relatively low academic place among student populations are true, they might also privately hope that Black administrators will be more sympathetic to their plight and be more likely to let them slide on poor grades.

    None of this is new. In the 1960s, the midwestern state university I attended broke ranks and went outside the state to urban Black ghettos to recruit a number of students on full scholarship (it was otherwise against university policy to award full scholarships). Within a year or two, few of these recruits were still at the university. However, one (also on the way out for failing grades) disrupted an anti-Vietnam War rally in the student union with the complaint that it was the university that was responsible for his failing grades because it had failed to educate him. At least in that era, there was a professor with enough guts to take the podium and give the Black student a lecture on personal responsibility.

  11. Decent explanation. Keeping in mind UVA last year, that was at least partially motivated by bad grades, we might say that “claims of persecution are the last refuge of the failing student.”

    Why now? Not sure, but I don’t think it’s being engineered by Dems. I see #BLM and WM Privilege as stemming from the same root that drove Same Sex Marriage. Which in turn derives from the particular American characteristic of revivalist moral improvement. It’s just the way we are: we fasten on something and get really excited about it, and deliver hysterical attacks on anyone who disagrees with us, and then we move on.

    • Agree: Spotted Toad
  12. WGG [AKA "World\'s Greatest Grandson"] says:

    Blacks across the country are scrambling to get attention because they know they are about to go back to the sad old days of “mattering” proportional to their numbers or slightly higher. At 13% of the population, they probably carry about 20% political weight under white administrations. Despite claiming a belief in democracy, they find that number unacceptably low.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    @WGG

    Exactly - the Obama presidency is the high water mark of black political power in this country, and with the demographics being what they are, they know it's not too long before Hispanics get to ride shotgun while they sit in the back seat of the Democratic Party.

    , @Jefferson
    @WGG

    "Blacks across the country are scrambling to get attention because they know they are about to go back to the sad old days of “mattering” proportional to their numbers or slightly higher. At 13% of the population, they probably carry about 20% political weight under white administrations. Despite claiming a belief in democracy, they find that number unacceptably low."

    When it comes to local politics, Blacks in the U.S punch above their weight. Hence why it is not uncommon for some cities to elect a Black mayor even if the percentage of Blacks living in that city is in the single digits.

  13. Why now? Perhaps because our elites have lost faith in universities in both of their capacities: as social sorting mechanism (https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ernst-and-young-drops-degree-classification-threshold-graduate-recruitment) and as producer of useful knowledge (see entire academic departments gobbled up by Google and the like.)

  14. this theory of blacks being underqualified can be applied to blacks just about everywhere. Kind of a Peter Principle applied to affirmative action recipients. A person who is able to claim affirmative action privilege is always going to be accepted or promoted into a position for which they are not otherwise qualified. Resulting in stress and micro aggressions being perceived by those privilege recipients across the board, all walks of life.

  15. OT – “Less than a month after it was revealed that the UK is planning to drop feminism from the politics A-level, every 16-year-old in Sweden is being given a copy of Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s call to arms, We Should All Be Feminists.

    The essay, adapted from Adichie’s award-winning TED talk of the same name, is being distributed in Swedish to high-school students by the Swedish Women’s Lobby and publisher Albert Bonniers. Launching the project at Norra Real high school in Stockholm this week, they said they hoped the book would “work as a stepping stone for a discussion about gender equality and feminism”.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/dec/04/every-16-year-old-in-sweden-to-receive-copy-of-we-should-all-be-feminists

    Didn’t think Sweden could actually get more feminist. Still, I’m sure the recent arrivals will be on board with the agenda.

    also OT –

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/03/gene-editing-summit-rules-out-ban-on-embryos-destined-to-become-people-dna-human

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie was a Hodder fellow at Princeton University during the 2005–06 academic year. In 2008 she was awarded a MacArthur $$$$$ Fellowship. She has also been awarded a 2011–12 fellowship by the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study, Harvard University.

    , @wolfy
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Swedish conservatives are really pathetic.

    Replies: @Fredrik

    , @Big Bill
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Wow. The Bonniers are still "healing the world" after four generations in Sweden.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  16. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:

    I’ve always liked Taylor, but was disappointed to see him cucking it up at NatRev recently. He wrote a takedown of a documentary about campus rape called The Hunting Ground. His takedown was well done and probably valid (I haven’t seen the doco and won’t) but it began with a nauseating lede about a white hussy trying to ruin the life of that fine young paragon of black manliness, Jameis Winston.

    The doco is probably shit, but Winston is probably a rapist.

  17. I always assumed that the benefit of the Ivy League was the opportunity to make connections and participate in extracurriculars, not that you got a more rigorous education than elsewhere. And once you get in, it’s almost impossible to flunk out. So it really shouldn’t matter if blacks and Hispanics are held to lower standards, at least at the Ivy League level. The state school level is another story, and the attrition rate is significant there. As a graduate student, I taught an intro-level accounting course at a state school. It was considered a “weed-out” class with a failure rate close to 20% on average. I had eight black students. Four of them failed, and one of them got a B (no A’s, and about 10-15% of all students got A’s). Talking to another TA, he told me that was about how his black students did too.

    • Replies: @BurplesonAFB
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Steve's not saying the NAM students are flunking out. Obviously they're still registered and on campus. He's saying they're alienated because virtually all the Whites and Asians who get in are a standard deviation or two smarter than they are. One reason this is possible is that the Ivy's are not "weed-out" institutions.

    , @Anonymous
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    The near nonexistence of dumb and unmotivated students on Ivy campuses does make the education more rigorous. Status depends in part on how well one performs academically relative to one's peers regardless of the fact that not many people fail out.

  18. Ending diversity quotas and increasing the popularity of “traditionally black” colleges would solve a lot of problems.

  19. This is a very good article. Very readable.

    I would also like to post this, written by a gentleman named countenance who posted it in another thread, regarding the demands of the UNC Red Brigade. I hadn’t actually seen a list of demands, so it was a shock to me how ridiculous this is.

    https://countenance.wordpress.com/2015/11/21/to-each-according-to-his-whining/

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Romanian

    Yes, that was an excellent dissection, I especially like the DEMAND that basically everyone with a pulse should be paid $25 an hour. I mean why did it take so long for someone to think of that .....

    Meanwhile, at Yale, the STEM professors are being criticized for being out of touch, but mainly for refusing to criticize the woman who said people should be able to do what they want on Halloween. So we are definitely at the "agree with me or else" stage.

    At the same site, you can read about how both Yale and Harvard have abolished the word "Master" and replaced it with "Head", which among other things implies that I didn't earn two master's degrees, I got two degrees in head. Come to think of it, that's not a necessarily completely inaccurate description of my graduate school career.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @ben tillman, @advancedatheist, @candid_observer

  20. • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Has anybody read this new novel about NYC, "City on Fire?" Is it good?

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @Anonymous

  21. Tying this and your last post together, Murray’s footnote from Coming Apart:

    Chapter 2, n. 30, IQ broken down by degree attainment (by 2000) and race, the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, 1979 cohort.
    White
    Bachelor’s — 113.3
    Masters — 116.9
    Ph.D./Professional (f/e J.D.) — 125.6

    Black
    Bachelor’s — 99.1
    Masters — 101.7
    Ph.D./Professional — 112.2

    Hispanic
    Bachelor’s — 106.7
    Masters — 106.4
    Ph.D./Professional — 115.2

    Even 15 years ago, black Ph.D.’s had an IQ approximately equal to white college grads, and about a standard deviation below white Ph.D.’s. I doubt that particular gap has gotten any smaller (though more recent data would be welcome). Despite this, blacks remain drastically underrepresented among the ranks of college professors relative to their share of the population.

    How to increase their numbers? Mandate greater “diversity” in hiring and increase the number and size of racial/ethnic studies departments.

    However unhinged and even childish the protesters may appear, their demands are entirely rational from the perspective of black academics, and black students who would like to become black academics.

    I think it’s a mistake to tie this to the election cycle, or revivalist fervor. The drive for diversity has been a feature of American life for 50 years, and since the percentage of URMs is constantly increasing, while the gaps stay (at a minimum) the same size, there is no reason to expect the drive to slacken, much less to cease.

    • Replies: @panjoomby
    @keypusher

    Hispanics with a masters have a lower IQ (slightly) than Hispanics with a bachelors? should that 106.4 be a 108.4?

    Replies: @Sleep, @keypusher

    , @Jack D
    @keypusher

    These stats just show the same 1SD gap in intelligence that show up on every conceivable measure ever since it became possible to measure IQ. This is about as close to a physical constant as anything in the social sciences - a lot firmer than 99% of what passes for social "science".

    It's even worse than those statistics make it appear. At the high end, you have a lot of mulattoes raised by white mothers like Obama (or even more white - people who are 3/4 or more white), West Indians and Nigerians (particularly Ib0). Actual mostly black descendants of African-American slaves coming from low income households (Ben Carson types) are as rare as hen's teeth on the high end. (Speaking of Carson, there is something "off" about the guy - he sounds like Peter Sellers in Being There.) If you read Michelle Obama's Princeton thesis it reads like a white kid's high school paper.

    And then when you get to the super high end, the discrepancy is even worse - the total number of black mathematical super geniuses is (allowing for rounding) roughly zero. E.g. zero Fields Medal winners (as opposed to Jews, who have received around 1/4 of all Fields Medals despite constituting a vanishingly small % of the world population. This is the 1SD gap acting in the other direction).

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  22. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    My own psycho-speculation is that deep down these angry blacks are really angry at themselves. They notice their own lack of capability at the higher levels and they realize that amongst the different people of the world they’re considered to be at the bottom in terms of of attractiveness. So they just turn their anger inside out and spend their time shrieking about this, that and the other; it’s black primal scream therapy.

  23. I like to use the term “village idiot” here.

    A 1200 math+verbal SAT is at about the upper quartile (=75th percentile) for all test takers.
    That’s pretty good.
    But at Princeton, the lower quartile (=25th percentile) among undergrads is about 1400.
    So if you’re a Princeton undergrad with a 1200 math+verbal SAT, then you’re a village idiot in that village. Even someone with a 1300 math+verbal SAT is almost certainly going to be completely outclassed in things like math and physics.

    I’m sure it’s not fun being a village idiot, so the village idiots tend to be angry.
    But almost all universities have “College for Dummies” majors that give their village idiots a path to a degree.

    This has all been going on for decades, and now there’s this Mismatch book about it. You’d think that word would have gotten back to the ‘hood that it’s no fun being village idiot, and that black students not wanting to be village idiots muddling though in a “College for Dummies” major would avoid getting themselves mismatched.

  24. @Anonymous Nephew
    OT - "Less than a month after it was revealed that the UK is planning to drop feminism from the politics A-level, every 16-year-old in Sweden is being given a copy of Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s call to arms, We Should All Be Feminists.

    The essay, adapted from Adichie’s award-winning TED talk of the same name, is being distributed in Swedish to high-school students by the Swedish Women’s Lobby and publisher Albert Bonniers. Launching the project at Norra Real high school in Stockholm this week, they said they hoped the book would “work as a stepping stone for a discussion about gender equality and feminism”."

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/dec/04/every-16-year-old-in-sweden-to-receive-copy-of-we-should-all-be-feminists

    Didn't think Sweden could actually get more feminist. Still, I'm sure the recent arrivals will be on board with the agenda.

    also OT -

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/03/gene-editing-summit-rules-out-ban-on-embryos-destined-to-become-people-dna-human

    Replies: @Clyde, @wolfy, @Big Bill

    Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie was a Hodder fellow at Princeton University during the 2005–06 academic year. In 2008 she was awarded a MacArthur $$$$$ Fellowship. She has also been awarded a 2011–12 fellowship by the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study, Harvard University.

  25. A lot of the protestors are white, though. The picture of those kids sitting in the Princeton president’s office, most are white. And that royall asses blog claims that one of the three ring leaders at Harvard is white.

    It seems like just a trendy cause that everyone wants to get in on.

  26. Groups are used and discarded by the system as it needs them. JFK was “Peak Ethnic”- the white ethnics had their turn, and were then turned on by the system. Everything had been accomplished that they were useful for, and they were no longer needed. Blacks were the new favored group.

    Obama in the same fashion is Peak Negro. Actually the left lost interest in blacks as a constituency a long time ago, turning to women and gays. But blacks still had to get their turn, and they got little for it. A lot of people, even Republicans, have been talking about backing off on criminal justice but it may never happen. Obama’s primary accomplishments were Obamacare, which benefits blacks little, gay marriage, which blacks don’t care about, and gays in the military, which blacks don’t care about.

    Blacks have come to realize in the last few years they have been passed by, even with a black president. Obama isn’t even an American black, but a mulatto of foreign parentage. The country has long had Negro fatigue, and with Obama a lame duck none of their issues will be addressed. It’s not like he cared that much about those in the first place.

    Blacks want more than anything an easing off of criminal justice, back from the strict policies that came about in the 80’s and 90’s. Again people make noises about this, but legislation is another thing altogether. Blacks want government jobs, but government isn’t hiring a lot, and there has to be room for new “diversity” like the San Bernardino shooter.

    The one trend that may benefit blacks, as frequently visited by our host, is moving blacks to the old suburbs. But even this doesn’t benefit them- they move from one worn out housing stock to another, and without the density and public transportation that helps support their lifestyle.

    Education is indeed the one place spoils are still available, and the best place for blacks to grab some. But I think they are driven more by rage at realizing they are being set aside, and a desire to influence the system while there is still a black president and a black AG.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Thrasymachus


    JFK was “Peak Ethnic”- the white ethnics had their turn
     
    Kennedy himself may have been "peak white ethnic" but the man was essential a Catholic WASP, like Bill Buckley.

    In 1960, as Peter Brimelow notes in Alien Nation, the country still identified as a WASP nation -- regardless of one's ethnicity. Thus Kennedy signaled his alignment with these values, even as an Irish Catholic. He quoted John Buchan, wore Sevile Row suits, and was best friends with the Mayflower-descended Ben Bradlee.

    It was the Quaker Richard Nixon who was the tribune of white ethnics, and Agnew who signaled their ascendance.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    , @27 year old
    @Thrasymachus

    Republicans should capitalize on that and push "prison reform" as an issue, with the specific goal of ending "prison violence" (i.e. rape) a central issue. This is something that black community the might actually take seriously (1/3 of their sons/brothers/whatever are in jail I heard) and peel off small amount from the dems, and bonus, if successful, would embolden white men to act extra-legally in defending our interests

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

  27. But that raises the question of: Why Now?

    The prelude was the criticism of police authorities.

    During President Obama’ first half-year in office, he interjected himself into an incident where Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates complained about being disrespected by Police Officer James Crowley. President Obama reflexively and publicly took Gates’ side.

    In retrospect, the Gates incident was significant in combining two grievances:

    1) Blacks are disrespected by police officers

    2) Blacks are disrespected at universities

    Then, the first major interlude was the killing of Trayvon Martin, who had been expelled from a high school, by George Zimmerman, an official neighborhood-watch volunteer. Although not a police officer, Zimmerman can be considered to be a police authority, because the local police department managed the neighborhood-watch program.

    In retrospect, the Martin incident was significant in combining two grievances:

    1) Blacks are disrespected even by neighborhood-watch volunteers

    2) Blacks are expelled from schools disproportionately

    After all, if Martin had not been expelled from school, then he would have been home reading his textbooks instead of casing apartments for possible burglaries on a dark, rainy night.

    Then, the second major interlude was the killing of Michael Brown by Police Officer Darren Wilson.

    In retrospect, the Brown incident was significant in combining two grievances:

    1) Blacks are disrespected by police officers

    2) Blacks are disrespected on college campuses

    The second point there requires some explanation.

    When Wilson confronted Brown, the latter was walking with his friend Dorian Johnson. According to Johnson, the two had been talking about Johnson’s failed attempt to study at Lincoln University (LU), a historically Black college in Jefferson City, Missouri. Johnson never elaborated about that particular conversation to investigators, but the basic facts are as follows.

    In June 2011, three years before the Ferguson incident (August 2014), Johnson was arrested in Jefferson City for stealing a FedEx package from an apartment’s front door. Johnson, who was walking with some fellow students, tore open the package, took the contents, and proceeded to walk with his fellows to the local YMCA to play basketball. A maintenance man who had seen Johnson carrying the FedEx box away from the apartment followed the group to the YMCA. There, Johnson was detained.

    When questioned, Johnson initially gave a false name for himself, but then the investigating police officer found a Lincoln University identification card in Johnson’s sock. Subsequently, a LU police officer was summoned to help question Johnson. The LU officer immediately recognized Johnson, still only a freshman, as a chronic trouble-maker on campus.

    Johnson himself described his daily encounters with the LU police officers as follows:

    I was a freshman in college at this time. Everybody makes crazy little moves their freshman year. I was just beginning, I was getting out. I was breaking out of my kid years ….

    I had been fed up with being stopped by off-campus police and on-campus police because of the stereotypical they look at people from St. Louis. And being stopped every day, being late for class and having to remake-up work.

    I just said: “You know what, Jefferson City school, Lincoln University, was not for me at the time.” So I left.

    If Johnson had remained studying at LU, he would have graduated a few weeks before the Ferguson incident. Instead, he eventually became a drug dealer, mentoring Michael Brown on that fatal day.

    There was some talk that Brown intended to enroll in a vocational school as soon as the new school year began. However, Brown’s life was too disorganized for any formal study. He had been sleeping on a friend’s couch for a few weeks, and his grandmother would not let him back into his home to even get some of his clothes. So, he did nothing but get high all day, every day.

    That fatal day started with some unusual good hope for Brown, because he thought he might be developing a good new prospect — a white construction worker — for future drug trafficking, but then Brown was stopped dead by Police Officer Wilson.

    http://people-who-did-not-see.blogspot.com/2015/04/johnson-stole-fedex-delivery-from-ladys.html

    —–

    Anyway, the incidents of Blacks being disrespected by police officers have been intertwined with incidents of Blacks being disrespected by schools during the entire Obama Administration.

  28. As far as “shrieking black girls” are concerned, many African American girls receive lengthy training in “poetry slam” courses. Listen to Crystal Valentine explain Black Privilege:

    The Bronx native first began writing poetry as a fourth grader.

    Crystal is the current two-time Grand Slam Champion of NYU’s poetry slam team, is the 2015 NYC Youth Poet Laureate, has won first place atCUPSI in both 2013 and 2015, and was a member of the 2014 Urban Word youth slam team.

    http://blavity.com/this-poet-explains-exactly-what-black-privilege-is/

    These girls get the self-confidence and self-esteem that they need to shriek at college professors and college presidents from their training as young girls. When they perform in church, they are complimented by deacons and pastors. When they perform in school, they are praised by teachers and school principals.

    • Replies: @TB2
    @Anon7

    They get their confidence to shriek from the government and the establishment, the chappies with the guns and the chains. Blacks are just tools used by the Empire.

  29. How long until we reach peak black student rantings? Will it ever run out or will they more petty reasons to lash out at whitey?

  30. • Replies: @Svigor
    @Anon

    Donald Trump Gets Cold Reception at Jewish Republican Event


    Trump had kicked off the event with several jabs at the well-heeled crowd, saying he didn’t want their money.

    “I would love your support, but I don’t want your money,” he said. Later, he asserted that the audience wasn’t going to support him “because I don’t want your money.”

    “You want to control your own politicians,” he added.
     

    Haha:

    GOP Candidates Battle Over Who Is Immigration Restrictioniest


    Unspoken Jewish oligarch problem with Trump: he doesn’t need their money. Doesn’t even seem to want it. Big Problem.
     
  31. I noticed in the University of North Carolina list of demands:

    (22) We DEMAND that the University take responsibility in stopping and reversing the ongoing displacement of working class Black people out of Chapel Hill and Carrboro and demonstrate this through investment in collectively-owned housing projects.

    I respond:

    I take this to mean that black ghettos near the UNC campus are currently experiencing white liberal gentrification. This is another good point — The left’s Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (21st Century Negro Removal) train and the left’s making blacks the heart and soul of their coalition train are two trains on the same track going in opposite directions and directly at each other at very high rates of speed. Like I have been saying in this space, at some point pretty soon, the improbability of the left’s string bean coalition of everyone-but-regular-Americans is going to blow up in their faces, and this is one of many examples of the first big rip in the fiber. I think the DNC next summer in Philadelphia will be one for the ages, think Chicago 1968.

    I also noticed this:

    (46) … We DEMAND that the University and hospital actively advocate for all staff, students, and faculty be eligible to enroll their children in Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools.

    I respond:

    This is a hard one to figure without research, and I’m not in the mood to get the entire back story just to be able to have an accurate read on one point of a fifty point crackpot manifesto. But I do know from your analysis of an Atlantic essay last year that, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and the University of Alabama, the professors exerted political pressure to make sure that their own residential areas were zoned in terms of Tuscaloosa City Public Schools in such a way that their own kids could avoid the worst of Tuscaloosa’s ghetto black undertow. I suspect that is sort of what’s going on in Chapel Hill, that all the good liberal egalitarian professors don’t want their kids going to school with ghetto dindus, and this black extortion-mob is noticing their hypocrisy.

    • Replies: @Orthodox
    @countenance

    The GOP would be very smart to send out Rand Paul to troll on the topic of gentrification. It is one of the few issues where the right can point out blatant liberal hypocrisy. If there is a Philadelphia gentrification project ongoing, organize a high profile public protest during the DNC convention. These protests can offer earn a quick victory as well, because time is money for the city and the developer. Trump may know more than anyone which projects are the weakest and would stand the best chance of creating a political victory.

    , @AnAnon
    @countenance

    "this black extortion-mob is noticing their hypocrisy." - This is not the sort of thing that dim people would notice, they're probably getting help. Why and towards what end is that help being delivered?

    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @countenance

    "I think the DNC next summer in Philadelphia will be one for the ages, think Chicago 1968."

    Conservatives, and other people who dislike the modern Democratic Party, have been reliably predicting that every four years, for as long as I can remember. For once, I think this prediction may be about to bear fruit. Micro-Aggression-Palooza will be upon us!

    Replies: @David In TN

    , @Anondc
    @countenance

    Chapel Hill has relatively few NAM's by North Carolina standards and is also one of the more expensive places to live in the state. All of the schools in chapel hill are pretty good so I imagine that the students are arguing that janitors and other low level staff should be able to put their students in these schools no matter where they live, since many of them probably live in the nearby and far more dangerous Durham.

    Replies: @dearieme

  32. @SFG
    "Maybe what’s going on at present — the Liberal Meltdown of 2015 — is that various timeservers in the Obama administration are trying to cause ruckuses on campus for which they’ll be seen as The Solution and get themselves hired for academic administration jobs?"

    Sensible, but I don't know if enough of them have academic backgrounds.

    Here's my theory: the media wants to get blacks, women, and other traditionally Democratic groups riled up for the 2016 election. Hillary's not looking so hot, and they figure every vote counts. (Note also that Missouri is a swing state.) So, play up a few things that you think will get people turning out, and Hillary wins again.


    I'd also add the 60s campus radicals also had to be afraid of being sent to Vietnam and dying, so their protests may have seemed a little more serious. And, in terms of cultural heft, they had much better music.

    Replies: @ShouldWeCare, @Mr. Anon, @Bill Jones

    “Sensible, but I don’t know if enough of them have academic backgrounds.”

    It doesn’t much matter. Janet Napolitano had no professional background in academia and she is now President of the University of California system. Universities now have little to do with scholarship. They are machines for extracting money from parents and the government – self perpetuating institutions, busy about the task of perpetuating themselves. So scholars aren’t really needed to administer them.

    • Agree: Bill, TomSchmidt
    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor
    @Mr. Anon


    Janet Napolitano had no professional background in academia and she is now President of the University of California system.
     
    Leaders typically don't have the technical skills of the people that they lead. The heads of pharmaceutical companies don't usually have any bio/pharma skills and that isn't their purpose. Leaders of universities work in the same fashion. They aren't hired for fancy STEM ability, they are hired as fancy leaders.

    Universities now have little to do with scholarship.
     
    This is unfounded and absurd. There is lots of genuinely awesome STEM skills, coursework, and research happening at many universities around the globe.

    There are very valid problems to complain about at universities, but disputing their relevance in STEM is not one of them.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  33. “This, in turn, increases these students’ isolation and self-segregation from the higher-achieving Asians and whites who flourish in more challenging courses. At least one careful study shows that students are more likely to become friends with peers who are similar in academic accomplishment.”

    How poignant. A solution might be to match up blacks and athletes as roommates. The best justification I ever heard for Ivy athletics is that Yale has to have a bottom 25% of the class, as a matter of arithmetic, and athletes don’t mind being there because their self-worth isn’t tied up with GPA like everyone else’s. If you didn’t have athletes, a quarter of your students would be miserable, vindictive, and generally pathetic.

    • Replies: @Farenheit
    @Eric Rasmusen

    ....or guys who like to drink and chase the ladies....

  34. As they start to see the gulf between their own performance and that of most of their fellow students, dismay can become despair. They soon realize that no matter how hard they work, they will struggle academically.

    Malcolm Gladwell made much the same argument, without reference to race, in David and Goliath. How the extremely bright groups of students at the Ivies can turn people who might otherwise be successful as physicists into Wall Street Lawyers. The blacks who could be moderately upper-middle-class when studying with a peer group that does NOT make them feel uneasy instead wind up dropping all the way out.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @TomSchmidt

    Elite private colleges these days manage to graduate pretty much everybody they let in, Caltech being the exception. But there is a lot of downgrading of majors and the like.

    State flagship schools can be tougher to graduate from, although the ones that have become more elite, like UCLA, have seemingly gotten easier.

  35. @Anonymous Nephew
    OT - "Less than a month after it was revealed that the UK is planning to drop feminism from the politics A-level, every 16-year-old in Sweden is being given a copy of Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s call to arms, We Should All Be Feminists.

    The essay, adapted from Adichie’s award-winning TED talk of the same name, is being distributed in Swedish to high-school students by the Swedish Women’s Lobby and publisher Albert Bonniers. Launching the project at Norra Real high school in Stockholm this week, they said they hoped the book would “work as a stepping stone for a discussion about gender equality and feminism”."

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/dec/04/every-16-year-old-in-sweden-to-receive-copy-of-we-should-all-be-feminists

    Didn't think Sweden could actually get more feminist. Still, I'm sure the recent arrivals will be on board with the agenda.

    also OT -

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/03/gene-editing-summit-rules-out-ban-on-embryos-destined-to-become-people-dna-human

    Replies: @Clyde, @wolfy, @Big Bill

    Swedish conservatives are really pathetic.

    • Replies: @Fredrik
    @wolfy

    Who are you talking about? The only remotely conservative Swedes are either working class or religious(especially from the "free churches").

  36. PC like the proverbial pop, will, eventually, eat itself.

  37. More likely, they’re trying to cement political control over the left. Everyone knows Hillary is going to restore the Clinton political machine in all its cynically pragmatic glory. This is a fight for Narrative control, or maybe more narrowly, the focus of the Narrative.

    The simplest explanation is they created a monster. Every victory for BLM is an incentive to fight for more spoils. They made BLM to serve themselves, but now BLM serves itself and those who ally with it can gain political power. The Democrats have to end the movement before it gets much larger, and it may already be too late. An attempt to shut it down could trigger an ugly public conflict within the coalition, the biggest since the 1960s. Who is going to speak truth to BLM power? A white Democrat? A Hispanic? I don’t see how this doesn’t blow up in the Democrats faces at some point, it could happen as soon as next year.

    • Agree: Hubbub
  38. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    It could be post-‘gay marriage’ fatigue.

    Negroes took the backseat to that but now they are asked to take back seat to Bruce Caitlyn.

    Too much.

    And even hot black women are troublesome and bitchy.

    Naomi Campbell and Kathleen Battle have been biatches.

    It’s a racial mismatch of temperaments.

    It’s like what Rankin said.

    Serenisha’s tantrums on court jes’ be normal for black behavior.

    Sulkowitch is a pain, but she just drags a mattress around.

    Black nature wants to jump on it and burn it.

    Blacks don’t have academic demeanor.
    They evolved in a rhythmic butt-centric world.

    They just be flipping.

    We see this as black v white issue, but blacks are acting toward whites the way they act amongst each other: hollering, walloping, screaming, ranting, tantrum throwing.

    Most rap battles are among the negroes.

    And black biatches be screaming at each other all the time.

  39. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Thrasymachus
    Groups are used and discarded by the system as it needs them. JFK was "Peak Ethnic"- the white ethnics had their turn, and were then turned on by the system. Everything had been accomplished that they were useful for, and they were no longer needed. Blacks were the new favored group.

    Obama in the same fashion is Peak Negro. Actually the left lost interest in blacks as a constituency a long time ago, turning to women and gays. But blacks still had to get their turn, and they got little for it. A lot of people, even Republicans, have been talking about backing off on criminal justice but it may never happen. Obama's primary accomplishments were Obamacare, which benefits blacks little, gay marriage, which blacks don't care about, and gays in the military, which blacks don't care about.

    Blacks have come to realize in the last few years they have been passed by, even with a black president. Obama isn't even an American black, but a mulatto of foreign parentage. The country has long had Negro fatigue, and with Obama a lame duck none of their issues will be addressed. It's not like he cared that much about those in the first place.

    Blacks want more than anything an easing off of criminal justice, back from the strict policies that came about in the 80's and 90's. Again people make noises about this, but legislation is another thing altogether. Blacks want government jobs, but government isn't hiring a lot, and there has to be room for new "diversity" like the San Bernardino shooter.

    The one trend that may benefit blacks, as frequently visited by our host, is moving blacks to the old suburbs. But even this doesn't benefit them- they move from one worn out housing stock to another, and without the density and public transportation that helps support their lifestyle.

    Education is indeed the one place spoils are still available, and the best place for blacks to grab some. But I think they are driven more by rage at realizing they are being set aside, and a desire to influence the system while there is still a black president and a black AG.

    Replies: @anonymous, @27 year old

    JFK was “Peak Ethnic”- the white ethnics had their turn

    Kennedy himself may have been “peak white ethnic” but the man was essential a Catholic WASP, like Bill Buckley.

    In 1960, as Peter Brimelow notes in Alien Nation, the country still identified as a WASP nation — regardless of one’s ethnicity. Thus Kennedy signaled his alignment with these values, even as an Irish Catholic. He quoted John Buchan, wore Sevile Row suits, and was best friends with the Mayflower-descended Ben Bradlee.

    It was the Quaker Richard Nixon who was the tribune of white ethnics, and Agnew who signaled their ascendance.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @anonymous

    You regard the Irish as white?

    How terribly avant garde of you.

    , @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @anonymous

    "White ethnics" here are Catholics. "Whites" are Protestant. Nixon maybe was the tribune of the Presbyterian Scots Irish?

  40. @countenance
    I noticed in the University of North Carolina list of demands:

    (22) We DEMAND that the University take responsibility in stopping and reversing the ongoing displacement of working class Black people out of Chapel Hill and Carrboro and demonstrate this through investment in collectively-owned housing projects.
     
    I respond:

    I take this to mean that black ghettos near the UNC campus are currently experiencing white liberal gentrification. This is another good point — The left’s Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (21st Century Negro Removal) train and the left’s making blacks the heart and soul of their coalition train are two trains on the same track going in opposite directions and directly at each other at very high rates of speed. Like I have been saying in this space, at some point pretty soon, the improbability of the left’s string bean coalition of everyone-but-regular-Americans is going to blow up in their faces, and this is one of many examples of the first big rip in the fiber. I think the DNC next summer in Philadelphia will be one for the ages, think Chicago 1968.

    I also noticed this:

    (46) ... We DEMAND that the University and hospital actively advocate for all staff, students, and faculty be eligible to enroll their children in Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools.
     
    I respond:

    This is a hard one to figure without research, and I’m not in the mood to get the entire back story just to be able to have an accurate read on one point of a fifty point crackpot manifesto. But I do know from your analysis of an Atlantic essay last year that, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and the University of Alabama, the professors exerted political pressure to make sure that their own residential areas were zoned in terms of Tuscaloosa City Public Schools in such a way that their own kids could avoid the worst of Tuscaloosa’s ghetto black undertow. I suspect that is sort of what’s going on in Chapel Hill, that all the good liberal egalitarian professors don’t want their kids going to school with ghetto dindus, and this black extortion-mob is noticing their hypocrisy.

    Replies: @Orthodox, @AnAnon, @Kevin O'Keeffe, @Anondc

    The GOP would be very smart to send out Rand Paul to troll on the topic of gentrification. It is one of the few issues where the right can point out blatant liberal hypocrisy. If there is a Philadelphia gentrification project ongoing, organize a high profile public protest during the DNC convention. These protests can offer earn a quick victory as well, because time is money for the city and the developer. Trump may know more than anyone which projects are the weakest and would stand the best chance of creating a political victory.

  41. Off-topic sort of:

    https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/what-ive-learned-as-a-white-mom-raising-two-black-161518045.html

    The kind of stuff Yahoo recommends in its news emails.

    And they have two biological daughters as well.

    Be careful, there’s a video there.

    • Replies: @Warner
    @Romanian

    "we would be speaking to him in Creole and he would answer back in English."

    That would be funny to see in a movie.

  42. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Evolution just made black women more biatchy.

    The diva-bitchery is prominent among hot famous black women too.

    Take Rihanna. She mostly sucks but ‘umbrella’ is one badass hot ho song.
    Formulaic and trashy but sizzling hot mama stuff. It is as good as trash gets.

    Ok, she’s got fame and the name.

    But she is still a no-ggod biatch.

    But a hot sizzling ho biatch.

  43. Surprised you didn’t mention Michelle Obama here. I wonder if she would be like that shrieking banshee that said ‘You are disgusting’?

    Steve, I’ve been doing some thinking. It sounds like you need some muscle over here. So check your privilege and go support some Proud Black Men like Spike Lee and Ta-Nehisi Coates. You have it in you Steve. I believe in you.

  44. If they were getting in on merit, they obviously wouldn’t underperform their peers who did get in based on merit.

  45. @countenance
    I noticed in the University of North Carolina list of demands:

    (22) We DEMAND that the University take responsibility in stopping and reversing the ongoing displacement of working class Black people out of Chapel Hill and Carrboro and demonstrate this through investment in collectively-owned housing projects.
     
    I respond:

    I take this to mean that black ghettos near the UNC campus are currently experiencing white liberal gentrification. This is another good point — The left’s Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (21st Century Negro Removal) train and the left’s making blacks the heart and soul of their coalition train are two trains on the same track going in opposite directions and directly at each other at very high rates of speed. Like I have been saying in this space, at some point pretty soon, the improbability of the left’s string bean coalition of everyone-but-regular-Americans is going to blow up in their faces, and this is one of many examples of the first big rip in the fiber. I think the DNC next summer in Philadelphia will be one for the ages, think Chicago 1968.

    I also noticed this:

    (46) ... We DEMAND that the University and hospital actively advocate for all staff, students, and faculty be eligible to enroll their children in Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools.
     
    I respond:

    This is a hard one to figure without research, and I’m not in the mood to get the entire back story just to be able to have an accurate read on one point of a fifty point crackpot manifesto. But I do know from your analysis of an Atlantic essay last year that, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and the University of Alabama, the professors exerted political pressure to make sure that their own residential areas were zoned in terms of Tuscaloosa City Public Schools in such a way that their own kids could avoid the worst of Tuscaloosa’s ghetto black undertow. I suspect that is sort of what’s going on in Chapel Hill, that all the good liberal egalitarian professors don’t want their kids going to school with ghetto dindus, and this black extortion-mob is noticing their hypocrisy.

    Replies: @Orthodox, @AnAnon, @Kevin O'Keeffe, @Anondc

    “this black extortion-mob is noticing their hypocrisy.” – This is not the sort of thing that dim people would notice, they’re probably getting help. Why and towards what end is that help being delivered?

  46. I may have an explanation on why black autumn is happening. I noticed that all the friends that I met in college, I met at orientation or in my first classes. Other college graduates have noted that also. The first semester seems to be very important for socialization. The local college has this “outreach” program for minorities. They even have a separate orientation for the minorities. Hence from the very beginning they are isolated from the majority of students. At a certain point, they get angry and form protest groups that issue unworkable demands.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @flyingtiger

    FlyingTiger,
    In my experience at Berkeley in the late 80's, the racial segregation of blacks was all-encompassing. Separate living (when they could), separate social events, majors, gathering places, study halls, churches (especially), and anything else they could come up with. I was friends with a few, and admired their tenacity, but much of my impression of black college students was that they were there to fill quotas and protest every so often. It would be very difficult for them to be individuals and carve out their own path with that sort of peer pressure.

    You weren't allowed to join the black sorority or fraternity UNLESS you were black. They were racially discriminating and totally proud of it.

    , @ben tillman
    @flyingtiger


    I noticed that all the friends that I met in college, I met at orientation or in my first classes. Other college graduates have noted that also. The first semester seems to be very important for socialization. The local college has this “outreach” program for minorities. They even have a separate orientation for the minorities. Hence from the very beginning they are isolated from the majority of students.
     
    We had the same thing at Brown, called the Third World Transition Program. My friends noted at the time that it could serve to isolate students for the reasons you mentioned and that the "Third World" reference might be more than a bit offensive to Blacks from somewhere like St. Louis Country Day.
  47. @Romanian
    Off-topic sort of:

    https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/what-ive-learned-as-a-white-mom-raising-two-black-161518045.html

    The kind of stuff Yahoo recommends in its news emails.

    And they have two biological daughters as well.

    Be careful, there's a video there.

    Replies: @Warner

    “we would be speaking to him in Creole and he would answer back in English.”

    That would be funny to see in a movie.

  48. Whatever happened to the black kid at Berkeley who was profiled in the LA Times a couple years ago? He was obviously a “holistic” admit who was failing badly and much better belonged at Cal State Dominguez Hills or a junior college.

    • Replies: @Ed
    @Bill in Pasadena

    Facebook:

    https://m.facebook.com/kashawn.campbell.1?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fkashawn.campbell.1

    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/kc062194/tweets

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kashawn-campbell-89473853

    I can't tell if he's still in school or graduated but it appears he's now working at GameStop. Also by his Twitter he supported banning Maher from speaking at UC.

    , @Luke Ford
    @Bill in Pasadena

    His Twitter: https://twitter.com/kc062194
    Have a Caltastic day!

  49. @countenance
    I noticed in the University of North Carolina list of demands:

    (22) We DEMAND that the University take responsibility in stopping and reversing the ongoing displacement of working class Black people out of Chapel Hill and Carrboro and demonstrate this through investment in collectively-owned housing projects.
     
    I respond:

    I take this to mean that black ghettos near the UNC campus are currently experiencing white liberal gentrification. This is another good point — The left’s Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (21st Century Negro Removal) train and the left’s making blacks the heart and soul of their coalition train are two trains on the same track going in opposite directions and directly at each other at very high rates of speed. Like I have been saying in this space, at some point pretty soon, the improbability of the left’s string bean coalition of everyone-but-regular-Americans is going to blow up in their faces, and this is one of many examples of the first big rip in the fiber. I think the DNC next summer in Philadelphia will be one for the ages, think Chicago 1968.

    I also noticed this:

    (46) ... We DEMAND that the University and hospital actively advocate for all staff, students, and faculty be eligible to enroll their children in Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools.
     
    I respond:

    This is a hard one to figure without research, and I’m not in the mood to get the entire back story just to be able to have an accurate read on one point of a fifty point crackpot manifesto. But I do know from your analysis of an Atlantic essay last year that, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and the University of Alabama, the professors exerted political pressure to make sure that their own residential areas were zoned in terms of Tuscaloosa City Public Schools in such a way that their own kids could avoid the worst of Tuscaloosa’s ghetto black undertow. I suspect that is sort of what’s going on in Chapel Hill, that all the good liberal egalitarian professors don’t want their kids going to school with ghetto dindus, and this black extortion-mob is noticing their hypocrisy.

    Replies: @Orthodox, @AnAnon, @Kevin O'Keeffe, @Anondc

    “I think the DNC next summer in Philadelphia will be one for the ages, think Chicago 1968.”

    Conservatives, and other people who dislike the modern Democratic Party, have been reliably predicting that every four years, for as long as I can remember. For once, I think this prediction may be about to bear fruit. Micro-Aggression-Palooza will be upon us!

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    We've already had BLM "protesters" force candidates for the presidential nomination of what Theodore H. White called The Great Democratic Party of the United States off the stage at their own events.

  50. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Why now?”

    maybe TANF, Clinton’s welfare reform, had something to do with it. passed at the end of 1996, the 19-year olds of today were the last members of a swelling youth bulge of welfare dependant families, who were getting paid for having children, which the TANF ended. if there is something to it, then the racial tensions should subside 10 years from now.

  51. @countenance
    I noticed in the University of North Carolina list of demands:

    (22) We DEMAND that the University take responsibility in stopping and reversing the ongoing displacement of working class Black people out of Chapel Hill and Carrboro and demonstrate this through investment in collectively-owned housing projects.
     
    I respond:

    I take this to mean that black ghettos near the UNC campus are currently experiencing white liberal gentrification. This is another good point — The left’s Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (21st Century Negro Removal) train and the left’s making blacks the heart and soul of their coalition train are two trains on the same track going in opposite directions and directly at each other at very high rates of speed. Like I have been saying in this space, at some point pretty soon, the improbability of the left’s string bean coalition of everyone-but-regular-Americans is going to blow up in their faces, and this is one of many examples of the first big rip in the fiber. I think the DNC next summer in Philadelphia will be one for the ages, think Chicago 1968.

    I also noticed this:

    (46) ... We DEMAND that the University and hospital actively advocate for all staff, students, and faculty be eligible to enroll their children in Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools.
     
    I respond:

    This is a hard one to figure without research, and I’m not in the mood to get the entire back story just to be able to have an accurate read on one point of a fifty point crackpot manifesto. But I do know from your analysis of an Atlantic essay last year that, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and the University of Alabama, the professors exerted political pressure to make sure that their own residential areas were zoned in terms of Tuscaloosa City Public Schools in such a way that their own kids could avoid the worst of Tuscaloosa’s ghetto black undertow. I suspect that is sort of what’s going on in Chapel Hill, that all the good liberal egalitarian professors don’t want their kids going to school with ghetto dindus, and this black extortion-mob is noticing their hypocrisy.

    Replies: @Orthodox, @AnAnon, @Kevin O'Keeffe, @Anondc

    Chapel Hill has relatively few NAM’s by North Carolina standards and is also one of the more expensive places to live in the state. All of the schools in chapel hill are pretty good so I imagine that the students are arguing that janitors and other low level staff should be able to put their students in these schools no matter where they live, since many of them probably live in the nearby and far more dangerous Durham.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    @Anondc

    Compliments on that suggestion: it makes sense.

  52. @Romanian
    This is a very good article. Very readable.

    I would also like to post this, written by a gentleman named countenance who posted it in another thread, regarding the demands of the UNC Red Brigade. I hadn't actually seen a list of demands, so it was a shock to me how ridiculous this is.

    https://countenance.wordpress.com/2015/11/21/to-each-according-to-his-whining/

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    Yes, that was an excellent dissection, I especially like the DEMAND that basically everyone with a pulse should be paid $25 an hour. I mean why did it take so long for someone to think of that …..

    Meanwhile, at Yale, the STEM professors are being criticized for being out of touch, but mainly for refusing to criticize the woman who said people should be able to do what they want on Halloween. So we are definitely at the “agree with me or else” stage.

    At the same site, you can read about how both Yale and Harvard have abolished the word “Master” and replaced it with “Head”, which among other things implies that I didn’t earn two master’s degrees, I got two degrees in head. Come to think of it, that’s not a necessarily completely inaccurate description of my graduate school career.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @SPMoore8

    Sure it ain't

    , @ben tillman
    @SPMoore8


    At the same site, you can read about how both Yale and Harvard have abolished the word “Master” and replaced it with “Head”, which among other things implies that I didn’t earn two master’s degrees, I got two degrees in head. Come to think of it, that’s not a necessarily completely inaccurate description of my graduate school career.
     
    Did you go to grad school with Diane Keaton?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkpDZfKj4_s
    , @advancedatheist
    @SPMoore8

    I've wondered when blacks will rehabilitate the word slave and make it cool to use amongst themselves, the way male homosexuals have embraced the formerly derogatory names faggot and queer.

    That way blacks can graduate from college with slave degrees, which sounds about right for the cognitive abilities of most of them.

    , @candid_observer
    @SPMoore8

    At your link to Yale Daily News, I found this delicious comment from a SJW student:


    “The fact that the large majority of the faculty that signed this letter in support of the Christakises are in STEM just shows how far-removed from reality these people are,” van Donselaar wrote. “Maybe we should require faculty to take an ethnic studies class too?”
     
    Because, when you want reality, you go to an ethnic studies professor.
  53. Why now? Because Republican supported mass immigration is on the verge of giving the nut job white-hating left complete power. They’re feeling their oats and their victims already have no say in the system. In the past the left and particularly the Democrats had to worry about the largely mythical “white backlash.” They don’t worry about it any more.

  54. A theory of black rage, offered modestly, not in disagreement with others but as part of the larger picture.:

    For some blacks, these are the golden years: with high IQ by black standards (up to 115) they are offered college scholarships, elite jobs, access to white women, re-spect, and suchlike. But that danegeld only goes to the top third.

    The bottom third sees this. It’s a big river of stuff they desperately want, but because they can’t speak the language, be on time, stay on task, settle down, patiently work it through, defer until appropriate, barter subtextually, or deploy any high socialization skills, they are CUT OFF! and they know it. It will never be for them, and they know it. No amount of work, no adherence to Republican bromides of effort as the path to improved competitiveness, can help them–and they know it. More, they’re cajoled by cynical libs telling them “the system” is against them (when it’s their own biology that’s against them) and easily het up to hysterical and violence.

    Result: It’s going to get worse before-even IF–it gets better.

  55. Why now? My working assumption has been professional agitators. It’s very, very easy to get a bunch of black college kids and their white/Asian Prog sympathizers wound up. What’s a lot less likely is a leader rising naturally from this mixed bag of nobodies. But send in some professional organizers and you get things going in no time.

    We know that Soros funds this stuff. There are even government organizations devoted to this kind of thing, hidden under fancy names, but I don’t feel like looking any of this up. And then on some campuses it’s Uber Left professors behind the scenes making it happen. There is really no such thing as a spontaneous revolution.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @peterike

    I agree completely. The morons who cannot even do a decent black tape hoax are incapable of getting the lazy aggrieved SJWs together for a camera moment. There were outside agitators at the 1968 Chicago riots, and it would be easy and cheap for Soros or his buddies to send some "community organizer" in to spear head this stuff. Plus the MSM is studiously incurious about where the money comes from to buy the bullhorn, print up all the signs, etc.

    This smacks of professional astro turfing.

    Replies: @Discordiax

    , @dcite
    @peterike

    Yes, Soros funds it. That man is Dr. Strangelove on steroids. I doubt most of these people would strategize their scream-fests on their own. There's an entire shadow world of intelligence-operators who keep this street-theater going.

  56. Steve, have you defined ‘black autumn’? Maybe I missed it but it has been a long time since I missed reading a post of yours.

  57. @SPMoore8
    @Romanian

    Yes, that was an excellent dissection, I especially like the DEMAND that basically everyone with a pulse should be paid $25 an hour. I mean why did it take so long for someone to think of that .....

    Meanwhile, at Yale, the STEM professors are being criticized for being out of touch, but mainly for refusing to criticize the woman who said people should be able to do what they want on Halloween. So we are definitely at the "agree with me or else" stage.

    At the same site, you can read about how both Yale and Harvard have abolished the word "Master" and replaced it with "Head", which among other things implies that I didn't earn two master's degrees, I got two degrees in head. Come to think of it, that's not a necessarily completely inaccurate description of my graduate school career.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @ben tillman, @advancedatheist, @candid_observer

    Sure it ain’t

  58. Steve, can’t you at least agree that the hypothetical answer may lie in a Deep State/Conspiracy-type situation?

    Look, earlier in the Obama regime we had Occupy Wallstreet come out of nowhere in mass groups and start “occupying” parks around the country. The news media was frenzied to put this as a “mass spontaneous movement” but it seemed highly dubious: yes, the people who showed up a week after the occupations began were clearly just tag-alongs and monkey see-monkey do type followers, but the first wave of the Occutards didn’t all just mass head for the parks in major cities—they were too low IQ, too disorganized, and too mentally unbalanced to do it. So its probable that some lefty group—probably Soros-funded, but then again, could be a non-Soros offshoot of the crazy (and little reported) WTO protesters.

    Then Ferguson’s and Baltimore’s riots and demonstrations came, and were shown to have been pushed by Soros-money. Again, low-IQ, disorganized, mentally unbalanced folks all converged on an area in a lefty-protest that fell into chaos. Who sent them? This time it was Soros.

    Now, we see a bunch of lower-IQ, disorganized, mentally unbalanced blacks on college campuses around the country suddenly organizing media-cognizant “protests” and “sitins” and such to flex black power and burn out whitey. Someone has to be organizing them initially and sending them out. Follow the money.

    And, as I’ve said before about the 1960s, much of it wasn’t large or spontaneous, but carefully organized at first and sent out to get good media coverage (to make them seem larger and influence a lot more people). The tactics in the 60s started off as similar to those in the 1950s anti-segregation protests, which were run by CPUSA members and funded by Communists. The 1950s stayed organized and on focus and never let the media-friendly martyr images cause riots. But by the 1960s, cocky with the success of the 50s protests and the destruction of McCarthyism, the organizations lost control, and it devolved into a lot more riots and violence.

    What we’re seeing in all of these instances is a concerted effort by some well-funded organizers to get a mass of low-IQ, disorganized, mentally-unbalanced losers together as a mob to do the organizers’ bidding. These groups could not be doing this “spontaneously” at all, except in the cases of monkey-see, monkey-do, and those latter instances will just devolve into either riots or disspation.

    What we’re seeing, therefore, is some very wealthy and powerful hands behind the curtain doing this deliberately for some end goal. Possibly just for the chaos itself—as the chaos may serve to keep America from organizing against their threat—or possibly for some other reason (for example, Soros may believe that he is truly provoking a proletariat revolution by organizing the underclasses).

    But this isn’t a bunch of blacks doing this on their own spontaneously or because they just realized they’re affirmative action cases. That’s highly unlikely.

  59. @Eric Rasmusen
    "This, in turn, increases these students’ isolation and self-segregation from the higher-achieving Asians and whites who flourish in more challenging courses. At least one careful study shows that students are more likely to become friends with peers who are similar in academic accomplishment."

    How poignant. A solution might be to match up blacks and athletes as roommates. The best justification I ever heard for Ivy athletics is that Yale has to have a bottom 25% of the class, as a matter of arithmetic, and athletes don't mind being there because their self-worth isn't tied up with GPA like everyone else's. If you didn't have athletes, a quarter of your students would be miserable, vindictive, and generally pathetic.

    Replies: @Farenheit

    ….or guys who like to drink and chase the ladies….

  60. Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically for (say) the top Ivy League colleges.

    Not even close. That’s off by 1 to 2 orders of magnitude.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @ben tillman


    Not even close. That’s off by 1 to 2 orders of magnitude.
     
    Yeah, more like 1% of blacks who *apply* to Ivy League schools are up to those schools' standards. If that.
  61. @SPMoore8
    @Romanian

    Yes, that was an excellent dissection, I especially like the DEMAND that basically everyone with a pulse should be paid $25 an hour. I mean why did it take so long for someone to think of that .....

    Meanwhile, at Yale, the STEM professors are being criticized for being out of touch, but mainly for refusing to criticize the woman who said people should be able to do what they want on Halloween. So we are definitely at the "agree with me or else" stage.

    At the same site, you can read about how both Yale and Harvard have abolished the word "Master" and replaced it with "Head", which among other things implies that I didn't earn two master's degrees, I got two degrees in head. Come to think of it, that's not a necessarily completely inaccurate description of my graduate school career.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @ben tillman, @advancedatheist, @candid_observer

    At the same site, you can read about how both Yale and Harvard have abolished the word “Master” and replaced it with “Head”, which among other things implies that I didn’t earn two master’s degrees, I got two degrees in head. Come to think of it, that’s not a necessarily completely inaccurate description of my graduate school career.

    Did you go to grad school with Diane Keaton?

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  62. OT: Hard to sell Chinese moviegoers on black characters:

    Star Wars movie race row in China after black character is shrunk on posters for The Force Awakens

    British actor John Boyega, 23, appears much smaller on the Chinse poster. Other characters, including Chewbacca, are also missing from the advert
    The sci-fi epic film is set to be released worldwide on December 17
    More on Star Wars: The Force Awakens at……. UK
    Daily Mail

    UK Daily Mail commenter: Sounds like such an horrendous issue that can only give the PC brigade sleepless nights!

  63. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @TangoMan
    Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically

    It's likely that Stuart is misreading the data.

    The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education reports:


    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test. They made up 10.4 percent of all SAT test takers. But only 1,132 African-American college-bound students scored 700 or above on the math SAT and only 1,205 scored at least 700 on the verbal SAT. Nationally, more than 100,000 students of all races scored 700 or above on the math SAT and 78,025 students scored 700 or above on the verbal SAT. Thus, in this top-scoring category of all SAT test takers, blacks made up only 1.1 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the math test and only 1.5 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the verbal SAT. . . . .


    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation's most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

    Once again, if we eliminate Asians and other minorities from the calculations and compare only blacks and whites, we find that 0.2 percent of all black test takers scored 750 or above on the verbal SAT compared to 2.2 percent of all white test takers. Thus, whites were 11 times as likely as blacks to score 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Overall, there were 49 times as many whites as blacks who scored at or above the 750 level.

    On the math SAT, only 0.16 percent of all black test takers scored 750 or above compared to 1.8 percent of white test takers. Thus, whites were more than 11 times as likely as blacks to score 750 or above on the math SAT. Overall, there were more than 61 times as many whites as blacks who scored 750 or above on the math section of the SAT.
     

    ~1% of those scoring above 700, not 1% of all students.

    Bonus fact: In terms of predictive validity, the SAT over-predicts black First Year academic performance according to the EPS technical bulletin.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Olorin, @ben tillman

    It is interesting that fewer blacks scored above 700 (or 750) on the math portion of the test than scored above that similar cutoff mark for the verbal portion of the test.

    It that sense they seem more skewed towards verbal intelligence than math, perhaps like another group we know of.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @The most deplorable one

    Ashkenazi Jews are more skewed towards verbal IQ than visuospatial IQ. That's not the same thing as more skewed towards verbal intelligence than math, as math ability is related to bot of those domains.

  64. I haven’t read the article beyond that excerpt, but I suspect this and pretty much any other analysis is too complicated.

    I think the real truth is simple: some people are, by nature, massively self-absorbed and self-centered. We’ll call them narcissists, even if that maybe isn’t precise enough. Narcissists automatically believe that everyone should be catering to them at all times and they genuinely believe they are being wronged whenever someone else fails to abide by their will or something doesn’t go their way. (Indeed, for many narcissists pretty much everyone they know is constantly catering to their whims, and yet they still believe they are put upon.) Normally such people are only allowed to endlessly bleat at their friends and family, but when they’re black its different. As we all know, white racism is the cause of every ill that has ever befallen any black anywhere, so their narcissistic whining isn’t merely a personal problem. No it’s a big social issue we all need to discuss.

    So you take some whining narcissists, tell them that their bitching is actually the most important issue in the world, and then refuse to let anyone else tell them to shut the fuck up, and this is what you get.

  65. @ben tillman

    Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically for (say) the top Ivy League colleges.
     
    Not even close. That's off by 1 to 2 orders of magnitude.

    Replies: @International Jew

    Not even close. That’s off by 1 to 2 orders of magnitude.

    Yeah, more like 1% of blacks who *apply* to Ivy League schools are up to those schools’ standards. If that.

  66. @SPMoore8
    @Romanian

    Yes, that was an excellent dissection, I especially like the DEMAND that basically everyone with a pulse should be paid $25 an hour. I mean why did it take so long for someone to think of that .....

    Meanwhile, at Yale, the STEM professors are being criticized for being out of touch, but mainly for refusing to criticize the woman who said people should be able to do what they want on Halloween. So we are definitely at the "agree with me or else" stage.

    At the same site, you can read about how both Yale and Harvard have abolished the word "Master" and replaced it with "Head", which among other things implies that I didn't earn two master's degrees, I got two degrees in head. Come to think of it, that's not a necessarily completely inaccurate description of my graduate school career.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @ben tillman, @advancedatheist, @candid_observer

    I’ve wondered when blacks will rehabilitate the word slave and make it cool to use amongst themselves, the way male homosexuals have embraced the formerly derogatory names faggot and queer.

    That way blacks can graduate from college with slave degrees, which sounds about right for the cognitive abilities of most of them.

  67. This is one of the unintended (but inevitable) results of affirmative action.

    I see this in the legal profession. I’ve come across numerous very competent Black and Latino lawyers over the years. But, because of affirmative action, for the most part Black and Latno lawyers with anything on the ball get sucked up by high paying corporate law firms, government agencies, etc. The result is that those Black and Latino lawyers who go back after law school and “serve the community” by hanging out their shingle tend to be the bottom of the heap.

  68. @Thrasymachus
    Groups are used and discarded by the system as it needs them. JFK was "Peak Ethnic"- the white ethnics had their turn, and were then turned on by the system. Everything had been accomplished that they were useful for, and they were no longer needed. Blacks were the new favored group.

    Obama in the same fashion is Peak Negro. Actually the left lost interest in blacks as a constituency a long time ago, turning to women and gays. But blacks still had to get their turn, and they got little for it. A lot of people, even Republicans, have been talking about backing off on criminal justice but it may never happen. Obama's primary accomplishments were Obamacare, which benefits blacks little, gay marriage, which blacks don't care about, and gays in the military, which blacks don't care about.

    Blacks have come to realize in the last few years they have been passed by, even with a black president. Obama isn't even an American black, but a mulatto of foreign parentage. The country has long had Negro fatigue, and with Obama a lame duck none of their issues will be addressed. It's not like he cared that much about those in the first place.

    Blacks want more than anything an easing off of criminal justice, back from the strict policies that came about in the 80's and 90's. Again people make noises about this, but legislation is another thing altogether. Blacks want government jobs, but government isn't hiring a lot, and there has to be room for new "diversity" like the San Bernardino shooter.

    The one trend that may benefit blacks, as frequently visited by our host, is moving blacks to the old suburbs. But even this doesn't benefit them- they move from one worn out housing stock to another, and without the density and public transportation that helps support their lifestyle.

    Education is indeed the one place spoils are still available, and the best place for blacks to grab some. But I think they are driven more by rage at realizing they are being set aside, and a desire to influence the system while there is still a black president and a black AG.

    Replies: @anonymous, @27 year old

    Republicans should capitalize on that and push “prison reform” as an issue, with the specific goal of ending “prison violence” (i.e. rape) a central issue. This is something that black community the might actually take seriously (1/3 of their sons/brothers/whatever are in jail I heard) and peel off small amount from the dems, and bonus, if successful, would embolden white men to act extra-legally in defending our interests

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    @27 year old

    You are missing the point. Prison rape is almost entirely Black Perp(s)-White Victim. The "Brothas" are perfectly happy with the situation.

  69. @Anondc
    @countenance

    Chapel Hill has relatively few NAM's by North Carolina standards and is also one of the more expensive places to live in the state. All of the schools in chapel hill are pretty good so I imagine that the students are arguing that janitors and other low level staff should be able to put their students in these schools no matter where they live, since many of them probably live in the nearby and far more dangerous Durham.

    Replies: @dearieme

    Compliments on that suggestion: it makes sense.

  70. @SPMoore8
    @Romanian

    Yes, that was an excellent dissection, I especially like the DEMAND that basically everyone with a pulse should be paid $25 an hour. I mean why did it take so long for someone to think of that .....

    Meanwhile, at Yale, the STEM professors are being criticized for being out of touch, but mainly for refusing to criticize the woman who said people should be able to do what they want on Halloween. So we are definitely at the "agree with me or else" stage.

    At the same site, you can read about how both Yale and Harvard have abolished the word "Master" and replaced it with "Head", which among other things implies that I didn't earn two master's degrees, I got two degrees in head. Come to think of it, that's not a necessarily completely inaccurate description of my graduate school career.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @ben tillman, @advancedatheist, @candid_observer

    At your link to Yale Daily News, I found this delicious comment from a SJW student:

    “The fact that the large majority of the faculty that signed this letter in support of the Christakises are in STEM just shows how far-removed from reality these people are,” van Donselaar wrote. “Maybe we should require faculty to take an ethnic studies class too?”

    Because, when you want reality, you go to an ethnic studies professor.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  71. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I graduated from an Ivy League school (Penn) last year. There’s an important detail that needs to be added to this: the majority of black students on campus are focused on getting high paying finance and law jobs when they graduate. There are also a fair number who are devout Christians. Some, even most, of the Christians and the future-wealth-acquisitioners probably sympathize with these protests in some abstract way, but in practice they’re annoyed by them. Vocally annoyed by them. These kids go to college to get access to big salary jobs, not become affirmative bureaucrats.

    The small contingent of black protesters at Penn was hilarious. They did a ‘mock slave auction’ in front of a fraternity to protest the fraternity buying a Beyonce themed sex doll. Seriously. http://www.thedp.com/article/2015/04/soul-protesting-for-black-women-in-front-of-phi-delta-theta-fraternity

    The protest had 15 people in it, tops.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @Anonymous


    The protest had 15 people in it, tops.
     
    The 1960s "protests: were similarly staged to look large on camera, but in reality were quite small. The money men behind them clearly had a lot of background in television/film production to set up scenes correctly for the cameras to capture and make look massive.
  72. @TomSchmidt

    As they start to see the gulf between their own performance and that of most of their fellow students, dismay can become despair. They soon realize that no matter how hard they work, they will struggle academically.
     
    Malcolm Gladwell made much the same argument, without reference to race, in David and Goliath. How the extremely bright groups of students at the Ivies can turn people who might otherwise be successful as physicists into Wall Street Lawyers. The blacks who could be moderately upper-middle-class when studying with a peer group that does NOT make them feel uneasy instead wind up dropping all the way out.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Elite private colleges these days manage to graduate pretty much everybody they let in, Caltech being the exception. But there is a lot of downgrading of majors and the like.

    State flagship schools can be tougher to graduate from, although the ones that have become more elite, like UCLA, have seemingly gotten easier.

  73. OT:
    Firemen-chefs cook off event $95 at Miami’s South Beach Wine and Food Festival
    Fireman Derek’s Midnight Breakfast -Fireman Derek, a South Florida phenomenon known for his delicious pies
    hosted by Chrissy Teigen ____ http://www.sobefest.com/midnightbreakfast
    Wherever do they find the time to sharpen their chef skills?

  74. Bonus fact: In terms of predictive validity, the SAT over-predicts black First Year academic performance according to the EPS technical bulletin.

    (*Trigger Warning for IQ Fetishists*)

    Because conscientiousness.

  75. @Anon
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/books/review/garth-risk-hallbergs-city-on-fire.html

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Has anybody read this new novel about NYC, “City on Fire?” Is it good?

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    I haven't, and based on this video, not my thing.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fNF5qYY3EU

    , @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    I was very disappointed with "City on Fire". It took a long time to read, and I had to push myself to finish it. Unconvincing characters, unbelievable situations. Seemed like it was trying to be Bonfire-esque but didn't come close to pulling it off.

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    In the process of.
    Compelling but long.

  76. @wolfy
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Swedish conservatives are really pathetic.

    Replies: @Fredrik

    Who are you talking about? The only remotely conservative Swedes are either working class or religious(especially from the “free churches”).

  77. @Anon
    http://time.com/4135081/donald-trump-gets-cold-reception-at-jewish-republican-event/

    Replies: @Svigor

    Donald Trump Gets Cold Reception at Jewish Republican Event

    Trump had kicked off the event with several jabs at the well-heeled crowd, saying he didn’t want their money.

    “I would love your support, but I don’t want your money,” he said. Later, he asserted that the audience wasn’t going to support him “because I don’t want your money.”

    “You want to control your own politicians,” he added.

    Haha:

    GOP Candidates Battle Over Who Is Immigration Restrictioniest

    Unspoken Jewish oligarch problem with Trump: he doesn’t need their money. Doesn’t even seem to want it. Big Problem.

  78. @flyingtiger
    I may have an explanation on why black autumn is happening. I noticed that all the friends that I met in college, I met at orientation or in my first classes. Other college graduates have noted that also. The first semester seems to be very important for socialization. The local college has this "outreach" program for minorities. They even have a separate orientation for the minorities. Hence from the very beginning they are isolated from the majority of students. At a certain point, they get angry and form protest groups that issue unworkable demands.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @ben tillman

    FlyingTiger,
    In my experience at Berkeley in the late 80’s, the racial segregation of blacks was all-encompassing. Separate living (when they could), separate social events, majors, gathering places, study halls, churches (especially), and anything else they could come up with. I was friends with a few, and admired their tenacity, but much of my impression of black college students was that they were there to fill quotas and protest every so often. It would be very difficult for them to be individuals and carve out their own path with that sort of peer pressure.

    You weren’t allowed to join the black sorority or fraternity UNLESS you were black. They were racially discriminating and totally proud of it.

  79. My Theory:

    They’re laying the groundwork for the presidential campaign of Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho and his running mate Shitavious Jackson.

  80. @Mr. Anon
    @SFG

    "Sensible, but I don’t know if enough of them have academic backgrounds."

    It doesn't much matter. Janet Napolitano had no professional background in academia and she is now President of the University of California system. Universities now have little to do with scholarship. They are machines for extracting money from parents and the government - self perpetuating institutions, busy about the task of perpetuating themselves. So scholars aren't really needed to administer them.

    Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    Janet Napolitano had no professional background in academia and she is now President of the University of California system.

    Leaders typically don’t have the technical skills of the people that they lead. The heads of pharmaceutical companies don’t usually have any bio/pharma skills and that isn’t their purpose. Leaders of universities work in the same fashion. They aren’t hired for fancy STEM ability, they are hired as fancy leaders.

    Universities now have little to do with scholarship.

    This is unfounded and absurd. There is lots of genuinely awesome STEM skills, coursework, and research happening at many universities around the globe.

    There are very valid problems to complain about at universities, but disputing their relevance in STEM is not one of them.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Massimo Heitor

    "Leaders typically don’t have the technical skills of the people that they lead."

    University Presidents aren't "leaders". They are administrators. The term "leader" is massively overused nowadays. And if what you say is true, then why was it the case in the past that University Presidents were mostly selected from among the professoriate.

    "The heads of pharmaceutical companies don’t usually have any bio/pharma skills and that isn’t their purpose. Leaders of universities work in the same fashion."

    And the ignorance of people who run organizations about what it is those organizations do is a big contributor to the (currently playing out) downfall of our civilization.

    "Universities now have little to do with scholarship."

    "This is unfounded and absurd. There is lots of genuinely awesome STEM skills, coursework, and research happening at many universities around the globe."

    I was speaking about the U.S., not the world. Anyway, my comments were neither unfounded, nor absurd. College coursework is now far less rigorous than it was in the past. And a lot of the reasearch being done now is, frankly, crap. Not all, certainly, but more than used to be the case. I suspect this is true in the wider world as well. The profusion of open access journals in recent years is a sign of that. Ever more journals are needed to publish ever more papers in order to satisfy the increasing demand of hacks looking to burnish their resumes with shoddy work.

    By the way, what do you know about "STEM" (a stupid term, by the way)? Your knowledge of it would certainly have some bearing on how valuable your opinion is.

  81. @Bill in Pasadena
    Whatever happened to the black kid at Berkeley who was profiled in the LA Times a couple years ago? He was obviously a "holistic" admit who was failing badly and much better belonged at Cal State Dominguez Hills or a junior college.

    Replies: @Ed, @Luke Ford

    Facebook:

    https://m.facebook.com/kashawn.campbell.1?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fkashawn.campbell.1

    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/kc062194/tweets

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kashawn-campbell-89473853

    I can’t tell if he’s still in school or graduated but it appears he’s now working at GameStop. Also by his Twitter he supported banning Maher from speaking at UC.

  82. @keypusher
    Tying this and your last post together, Murray's footnote from Coming Apart:

    Chapter 2, n. 30, IQ broken down by degree attainment (by 2000) and race, the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, 1979 cohort.
    White
    Bachelor’s — 113.3
    Masters — 116.9
    Ph.D./Professional (f/e J.D.) — 125.6

    Black
    Bachelor’s — 99.1
    Masters — 101.7
    Ph.D./Professional — 112.2

    Hispanic
    Bachelor’s — 106.7
    Masters — 106.4
    Ph.D./Professional — 115.2

    Even 15 years ago, black Ph.D.'s had an IQ approximately equal to white college grads, and about a standard deviation below white Ph.D.'s. I doubt that particular gap has gotten any smaller (though more recent data would be welcome). Despite this, blacks remain drastically underrepresented among the ranks of college professors relative to their share of the population.

    How to increase their numbers? Mandate greater "diversity" in hiring and increase the number and size of racial/ethnic studies departments.

    However unhinged and even childish the protesters may appear, their demands are entirely rational from the perspective of black academics, and black students who would like to become black academics.

    I think it's a mistake to tie this to the election cycle, or revivalist fervor. The drive for diversity has been a feature of American life for 50 years, and since the percentage of URMs is constantly increasing, while the gaps stay (at a minimum) the same size, there is no reason to expect the drive to slacken, much less to cease.

    Replies: @panjoomby, @Jack D

    Hispanics with a masters have a lower IQ (slightly) than Hispanics with a bachelors? should that 106.4 be a 108.4?

    • Replies: @Sleep
    @panjoomby

    It may have something to do with schoolteachers often needing a master's degree in Education whereas many jobs in tech fields only require a bachelor's degree. As to why, if my theory is right, it affects Hispanics more than others, I can't say.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @keypusher
    @panjoomby

    I rechecked the footnote -- it's as I stated. Of course there's no meaningful difference between a 106.4 and a 106.7 IQ, but it's still mildly surprising that the mean IQs of the two groups are the same.

    Possible explanations: Murray made a mistake (unlikely); very small sample size (I think unlikely; this was 15 years ago, but Hispanics weren't exactly rare then); Hispanics specializing in undemanding masters degrees (most likely). Also, there's not a lot to "explain" here: the IQ gap between white and black bachelor's and master's degree holders is pretty small -- much smaller than the gap between master's and Ph.D/JD degree holders.

    Replies: @snorlax

  83. @The Z Blog
    One of the myths in this piece is the assertion that classroom life at an Ivy is as tough as the admissions process. Anyone who has had experience on an Ivy campus, or any of the New Ivies for that matter, will tell you it is not much different from the average state campus, in terms of classroom difficulty. There's a reason why the graduation rates are close to 100% at these schools. The vetting is all done at admissions. After that, the only way to fail is not show up or commit a crime.

    The example he uses, UNC versus an Ivy, is a good one. At UNC, a student will get far less hand-holding than at an Ivy. Certainly cherished students will get loads of help everywhere, but a white kid can go through UNC anonymously. You can't do that at an Ivy or even at a Northwestern or Boston College.

    Now, it may be that these students brought in under the sacred student policies are a cultural mismatch. At an Ivy, the undergrad population is going to be foreign kids and apple polishers, obsessed with gaining credentials. No one is keeping is realz. At a UNC, there's a whole department for keeping it realz and a string emphasis on keeping it realz.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Big Bill

    Right, these days “mismatch” at elite colleges is more about psychological unease than about flunking out.

    I’d be interested, however, in the pre-med track, which pretty much requires surviving a class in organic chemistry that demands immense amounts of memorization. Where are blacks with the same test scores and high school grades more likely to fall off the premed track? A school where they got in on affirmative action or a school where they are in the broad middle of premeds?

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    I have some experience here. The low achieving NAMs (not all of them by any means) might get by with their B- in a quantitative class, or get gifted a C in organic chemistry (less likely) but they still know that they are at the bottom of the class and can't keep up. Getting gifted an A is almost worse psychologically. The professor just told you you are so bad that its not even worth challenging you by grading fair.

    , @The Z Blog
    @Steve Sailer

    At the Ivies, my understanding is the diversity admissions are steered into programs where this is not going to be an issue. You can major in Folklore at Harvard so it's not as if every is a math major at these schools. For undergrads, there's a lot of front end sorting and guidance to make sure every student is in a track that they can handle.

    As a consequence of this dotting on the students, graduate admissions have had to "adjust" for transcript inflation at many elite colleges. I know someone on an admissions committee at an elite college and s/he tells me they discount for certain Ivies because they know the transcripts are unreliable as an indicator of success.

    About a dozen years ago there was a study of SAT scores measuring the gaps between blacks and whites at various colleges. My recollection is top of the heap schools like Stanford and Harvard had small spreads. Private colleges like Duke had much wider spreads. When California dropped affirmative action, the spreads at all California colleges supposedly dropped.

    I'm going off memory on that last part.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @TK421
    @Steve Sailer

    Xavier University of Louisiana, the only HBCU that is also a Catholic school, produces results.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/magazine/a-prescription-for-more-black-doctors.html?_r=0

    The highlight in numbers
    "It has some 3,000 students and consistently produces more black students who apply to and then graduate from medical school than any other institution in the country. More than big state schools like Michigan or Florida. More than elite Ivies like Harvard and Yale. Xavier is also first in the nation in graduating black students with bachelor’s degrees in biology and physics. It is among the top four institutions graduating black pharmacists. It is third in the nation in black graduates who go on to earn doctorates in science and engineering."

    How they do it.
    "Francis believed that Xavier should not follow the example of most pre-med programs — ‘‘Look to your left, look to your right; only one of you will still be here at the end’’ — which work to weed out students. To him, that model squandered the talent of far too many students, especially black ones. Instead of compelling students to compete against one another, he said, it made much more sense, both morally and practically, to encourage better-­prepared students to help their classmates who weren’t as fortunate to catch up."

    "What makes Xavier’s program most unusual is its strictly tailored uniform curriculum in freshman chemistry and biology. The faculty members collaborate on what they will teach and create a workbook for these courses that every professor must use. If professors want to teach something not in a workbook, they must present it to the faculty group for approval. The workbooks take the complicated material in science textbooks, which often overwhelms students, and specifies, step by step, everything students need to know for the class. The faculty members then incorporate regular tests and drills, not only to assess students but also to evaluate whether professors need to adjust their teaching. "

    Replies: @lk, @snorlax

  84. @Discordiax
    I don't think that this is being driven by lame-duck Obama Administration apparatchiks--they can burrow into the Civil Service fairly easily, and if they don't, Hillary is a pretty strong favorite to keep the Administration Democratic and racial-grievance-monger friendly. (It's possible, but not probable, that Trump can mobilize enough white non-college non-voters to get him over the top.)

    My guess is that this is what happens when the Millenium is a letdown. Obama's election is the Kingdom Come of the integrationist project--remember the crowd chanting "Race doesn't matter!" after Obama won South Carolina? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/26/AR2008012601018.html) Obama is the first black president--and the last "First Black Anything" of any consequence. It's the end of the road.

    But on the ground, not much has changed. Black average IQ is still 1 SD or so below white average. Black college students are still competing with classmates with much higher SATs. Lower IQ, higher testosterone and lower time orientation mean more black criminals, which means more black criminals getting killed by cops.

    It's analogous to the urban riots of the 60s following the Civil Rights Act. (And as an equal opportunity pessimist, I'm already concerned about a Trump Presidency. Charles Schumer will still have 45 or so Senate seats and prevent anything from getting done--what do the folks now slinging around the term cuckservative do then?)

    Replies: @iffen, @Bill

    Keep electing more better Republicans, it’s got to work any day now.

  85. @joeyjoejoe
    "Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically for (say) the top Ivy League colleges."

    More innumeracy.

    I just wrote a whole post discussing what TangoMan just presented before I noticed his comment, so I won't repeat it. But in my anecdotal experience, I've never met a black person that could handle even mid-tier engineering (i.e. engineering at a state school rather than MIT/CalTech, etc). I'm sure they exist, but they are exceedingly rare (and are snatched up by MIT/CalTech etc). (a quick discussion of the numbers: 244 blacks exceed 750 on the math portion of the SAT. Split them between high end colleges, then physics, economics, math, engineering, computer science, other sciences, and even business throughout the country. How many are likely to study electrical engineering at Colorado State or Alabama? The pool is exceedingly small).

    I suspect even race realists don't really grok, at a deep level, what the different Bell Curves for whites and blacks means for higher (not just highest, but even slightly higher) academic performance.

    joeyjoejoe

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Big Bill, @ben tillman

    If I were a young black guy with a 780 math score and a strong work ethic, I’d be thinking Wharton finance major undergrad, Harvard Business School, Goldman Sachs, and retire at 45 with a bundle. Maybe I wouldn’t be a star at Goldman and they would spin me off to some corporate client needing a smart black guy, but in any case that’s a lot more lucrative career path than engineering.

  86. @NJ Transit Commuter
    This is exactly why affirmative action is such a disservice to the minority students it is intended to help. I would argue that there is a relatively low correlation between the university one attends and success, broadly defined. Certainly lower than the correlation between career choice and success.

    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton. You want to be an engineer but you are absolutely lost in your initial physics classes. It's not because you are stupid. You are quite intelligent, just not nearly as intelligent as the white and Asian students in your class, because they are held to a higher admissions standard. You change majors, and get a degree in Communications, or some similarly less challenging field where you can keep up with the class material. Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Who's going to have the more successful career? The Communications major from Princeton or the Florida State engineer? And what is the psychological impact of 4-5 years of being hopelessly behind in your classes, rather than being confidently able to master your studies, albeit at a less prestigious school?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @BurplesonAFB, @Boomstick, @E. Rekshun, @Former Darfur

    But Princeton is vastly richer than Florida State, and Princeton doesn’t like its blacks not doing well, so you’ll get lots more free tutoring at Princeton.

    I think mismatch theory tended to be truer 40 years ago, but rich colleges have gotten so rich that they tend to have ways of getting black students through.

    And at Princeton, maybe you switch to econ and go work on Wall Street as a salesman and make a lot more money than if you were an engineer.

    • Replies: @lk
    @Steve Sailer

    There is no "Communications" major at Princeton. When I went there, no official tutoring was provided outside of introductory subjects (101 to 200 level) and no private tutoring is permitted under the academic code of conduct.

    The fake degrees are limited to grievance studies.

    I am also fairly certain that engineers actually make more money than economics majors, because the iBanking gig only lasts two years for most before they burn out and because Princeton engineering is a pipeline to Silicon Valley.

    , @cwhatfuture
    @Steve Sailer

    Why is Princeton, or Harvard, or Yale richer than Florida State or any historically black college? This must be remedied. The faculty of those schools, the administrations of those schools and the screaming SJWs at those schools, believe in redistribution of wealth? We must start with those schools.

  87. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There was an article in the NYT the other day whose author is clearly sympathetic to the mismatch theory — between the lines, of course. Here’s the article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/us/with-diversity-comes-intensity-in-amherst-free-speech-debate.html

    and here’s the salient part:

    Ms. Marshall, who went to a selective public school in Chicago and came to Amherst on full financial aid, said she had felt unprepared academically and socially for Amherst. Yet she felt that by asking for help, she would undermine not just her own standing but that of her entire race.

    “I feel like an impostor,” Ms. Marshall said the other day over lunch at the central dining hall. “I close myself off a lot of times from help. I always feel like I need to prove to other people that I do belong here.”

    Mercedes MacAlpine, a black senior, who attended the Chapin School, an elite all-girls school in Manhattan, said, “You can walk into a room and have it look 50-50 and still not feel valued.”

    Racially ambiguous students said they had trouble fitting in. “I’ve been called Rachel Dolezal,” said Kaelan McCone, a freshman from Greensboro, N.C., referring to the white civil rights activist who identified as black. Mr. McCone, whose father came from Ireland and whose mother is African-American, said classmates had demanded that he show them family photos to prove that he is black.

    Sanyu Takirambudde, a sophomore from South Africa, who is black, said she felt like a token. “I never felt so stupid,” Ms. Takirambudde said of her experience in her science and math classes at Amherst. “Even when I say the correct answer, no one’s going to listen to me.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Michelle Obama is an interesting example: she got into and through Whitney Young HS (the Stuyvesant HS of Chicago), Princeton, and Harvard Law, but she was never very happy being a small fish in big ponds. She might have been happier during her 11 years of high school and higher education being a big fish in a small pond. One thing to keep in mind is that going to school isn't just preparation for life, it's a fairly big chunk of your life and being happy during those years has value of its own independent of whatever it does for the rest of your life.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  88. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @countenance

    "I think the DNC next summer in Philadelphia will be one for the ages, think Chicago 1968."

    Conservatives, and other people who dislike the modern Democratic Party, have been reliably predicting that every four years, for as long as I can remember. For once, I think this prediction may be about to bear fruit. Micro-Aggression-Palooza will be upon us!

    Replies: @David In TN

    We’ve already had BLM “protesters” force candidates for the presidential nomination of what Theodore H. White called The Great Democratic Party of the United States off the stage at their own events.

  89. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @The Z Blog

    Right, these days "mismatch" at elite colleges is more about psychological unease than about flunking out.

    I'd be interested, however, in the pre-med track, which pretty much requires surviving a class in organic chemistry that demands immense amounts of memorization. Where are blacks with the same test scores and high school grades more likely to fall off the premed track? A school where they got in on affirmative action or a school where they are in the broad middle of premeds?

    Replies: @Anon, @The Z Blog, @TK421

    I have some experience here. The low achieving NAMs (not all of them by any means) might get by with their B- in a quantitative class, or get gifted a C in organic chemistry (less likely) but they still know that they are at the bottom of the class and can’t keep up. Getting gifted an A is almost worse psychologically. The professor just told you you are so bad that its not even worth challenging you by grading fair.

  90. @Anonymous
    There was an article in the NYT the other day whose author is clearly sympathetic to the mismatch theory -- between the lines, of course. Here's the article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/us/with-diversity-comes-intensity-in-amherst-free-speech-debate.html

    and here's the salient part:

    Ms. Marshall, who went to a selective public school in Chicago and came to Amherst on full financial aid, said she had felt unprepared academically and socially for Amherst. Yet she felt that by asking for help, she would undermine not just her own standing but that of her entire race.

    “I feel like an impostor,” Ms. Marshall said the other day over lunch at the central dining hall. “I close myself off a lot of times from help. I always feel like I need to prove to other people that I do belong here.”

    Mercedes MacAlpine, a black senior, who attended the Chapin School, an elite all-girls school in Manhattan, said, “You can walk into a room and have it look 50-50 and still not feel valued.”

    Racially ambiguous students said they had trouble fitting in. “I’ve been called Rachel Dolezal,” said Kaelan McCone, a freshman from Greensboro, N.C., referring to the white civil rights activist who identified as black. Mr. McCone, whose father came from Ireland and whose mother is African-American, said classmates had demanded that he show them family photos to prove that he is black.

    Sanyu Takirambudde, a sophomore from South Africa, who is black, said she felt like a token. “I never felt so stupid,” Ms. Takirambudde said of her experience in her science and math classes at Amherst. “Even when I say the correct answer, no one’s going to listen to me.”

     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Michelle Obama is an interesting example: she got into and through Whitney Young HS (the Stuyvesant HS of Chicago), Princeton, and Harvard Law, but she was never very happy being a small fish in big ponds. She might have been happier during her 11 years of high school and higher education being a big fish in a small pond. One thing to keep in mind is that going to school isn’t just preparation for life, it’s a fairly big chunk of your life and being happy during those years has value of its own independent of whatever it does for the rest of your life.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Steve Sailer

    I've known a number of people who were pampered/directed/led into private schools and they excelled there and then went to college and floundered, because they were now just average. These people didn't end up to be "failures", but they ended up with middling careers with not much intellectual demands. Because they really weren't made that way. And what's wrong with that?

    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn't make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren't interested in "intellectual" pursuits to a strong degree.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Immigrant from former USSR, @ben tillman, @Jack D

  91. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Michelle Obama is an interesting example: she got into and through Whitney Young HS (the Stuyvesant HS of Chicago), Princeton, and Harvard Law, but she was never very happy being a small fish in big ponds. She might have been happier during her 11 years of high school and higher education being a big fish in a small pond. One thing to keep in mind is that going to school isn't just preparation for life, it's a fairly big chunk of your life and being happy during those years has value of its own independent of whatever it does for the rest of your life.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    I’ve known a number of people who were pampered/directed/led into private schools and they excelled there and then went to college and floundered, because they were now just average. These people didn’t end up to be “failures”, but they ended up with middling careers with not much intellectual demands. Because they really weren’t made that way. And what’s wrong with that?

    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn’t make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren’t interested in “intellectual” pursuits to a strong degree.

    • Agree: Mike Sylwester
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @SPMoore8

    William James Sidis was like that. He hated his youth as a "prodigy" so much that he avoided the limelight during his adult life. Now and then, the press would find him and announce him a failure. But he was doing just fine... by his own standards.

    , @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    Mr. SPMoore8:
    Can you describe how the number IQ =(about)=180 is assessed ?
    I have no doubts that your friend is exceptionally bright guy.
    But where the number came from?

    In my youth (in USSR) there was no testing expressed in numbers.
    I definitely interacted in my lifetime with people who,
    as nowadays I understand, were intrinsically smarter than I am (and was),
    and not just more persistent in their studies.
    And now I understand that it was the actual reason,
    why I had to switch (during graduate program)
    from the theory of elementary particles
    to my favorite subjects of undergraduate years: quantum and nonlinear optics.
    I survived there OK.

    When our daughter was still in High School (here in the USA),
    I told here several times:
    "If I will die before you finish your education,
    you must take LINEAR ALGEBRA course,
    and then you can do with your life whatever you want."

    She successfully took it twice, and alas,
    now I am free to die.
    Eventually she was accepted to Cal-Tech,
    but went to a particular Ivy
    and graduated from Dept. of Chem. and Chem. Biology.

    My deep respect of smart people, including
    you personally and your remarkable friend.
    Your Im.f.f.U.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    , @ben tillman
    @SPMoore8


    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn’t make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren’t interested in “intellectual” pursuits to a strong degree.
     
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You described the 180-IQ construction-worker guy as an intellectual, did you not?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @SPMoore8, @JSM

    , @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    With all due respect, I doubt that your friend's IQ is really 180. The frequency of IQ >180 is approximately 1 in 3.5 million, so there are fewer than 100 such individuals in the entire US. Most IQ tests ceiling out well before 180 so it's not even possible to measure such an IQ using normal IQ tests. How do you know that this is his IQ?

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  92. @joeyjoejoe
    "Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically for (say) the top Ivy League colleges."

    More innumeracy.

    I just wrote a whole post discussing what TangoMan just presented before I noticed his comment, so I won't repeat it. But in my anecdotal experience, I've never met a black person that could handle even mid-tier engineering (i.e. engineering at a state school rather than MIT/CalTech, etc). I'm sure they exist, but they are exceedingly rare (and are snatched up by MIT/CalTech etc). (a quick discussion of the numbers: 244 blacks exceed 750 on the math portion of the SAT. Split them between high end colleges, then physics, economics, math, engineering, computer science, other sciences, and even business throughout the country. How many are likely to study electrical engineering at Colorado State or Alabama? The pool is exceedingly small).

    I suspect even race realists don't really grok, at a deep level, what the different Bell Curves for whites and blacks means for higher (not just highest, but even slightly higher) academic performance.

    joeyjoejoe

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Big Bill, @ben tillman

    La Griffe du Lion, my personal hero, has written at length about the tail effects. Anyone who is interested should go to his website and read up. After reading two or three of his essays I felt like I was force-fed the red pill. Eternal thanks, Griffie.

  93. @The Z Blog
    One of the myths in this piece is the assertion that classroom life at an Ivy is as tough as the admissions process. Anyone who has had experience on an Ivy campus, or any of the New Ivies for that matter, will tell you it is not much different from the average state campus, in terms of classroom difficulty. There's a reason why the graduation rates are close to 100% at these schools. The vetting is all done at admissions. After that, the only way to fail is not show up or commit a crime.

    The example he uses, UNC versus an Ivy, is a good one. At UNC, a student will get far less hand-holding than at an Ivy. Certainly cherished students will get loads of help everywhere, but a white kid can go through UNC anonymously. You can't do that at an Ivy or even at a Northwestern or Boston College.

    Now, it may be that these students brought in under the sacred student policies are a cultural mismatch. At an Ivy, the undergrad population is going to be foreign kids and apple polishers, obsessed with gaining credentials. No one is keeping is realz. At a UNC, there's a whole department for keeping it realz and a string emphasis on keeping it realz.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Big Bill

    As they say at Harvard Law School, “Pay your fees and make your Bs”.

  94. @NJ Transit Commuter
    This is exactly why affirmative action is such a disservice to the minority students it is intended to help. I would argue that there is a relatively low correlation between the university one attends and success, broadly defined. Certainly lower than the correlation between career choice and success.

    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton. You want to be an engineer but you are absolutely lost in your initial physics classes. It's not because you are stupid. You are quite intelligent, just not nearly as intelligent as the white and Asian students in your class, because they are held to a higher admissions standard. You change majors, and get a degree in Communications, or some similarly less challenging field where you can keep up with the class material. Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Who's going to have the more successful career? The Communications major from Princeton or the Florida State engineer? And what is the psychological impact of 4-5 years of being hopelessly behind in your classes, rather than being confidently able to master your studies, albeit at a less prestigious school?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @BurplesonAFB, @Boomstick, @E. Rekshun, @Former Darfur

    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton… Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Yeah, but the hazing might kill you.

    Oh, wait… that’s at A&M, across town.

  95. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Has anybody read this new novel about NYC, "City on Fire?" Is it good?

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @Anonymous

    I haven’t, and based on this video, not my thing.

  96. @SPMoore8
    @Steve Sailer

    I've known a number of people who were pampered/directed/led into private schools and they excelled there and then went to college and floundered, because they were now just average. These people didn't end up to be "failures", but they ended up with middling careers with not much intellectual demands. Because they really weren't made that way. And what's wrong with that?

    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn't make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren't interested in "intellectual" pursuits to a strong degree.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Immigrant from former USSR, @ben tillman, @Jack D

    William James Sidis was like that. He hated his youth as a “prodigy” so much that he avoided the limelight during his adult life. Now and then, the press would find him and announce him a failure. But he was doing just fine… by his own standards.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  97. @27 year old
    @Thrasymachus

    Republicans should capitalize on that and push "prison reform" as an issue, with the specific goal of ending "prison violence" (i.e. rape) a central issue. This is something that black community the might actually take seriously (1/3 of their sons/brothers/whatever are in jail I heard) and peel off small amount from the dems, and bonus, if successful, would embolden white men to act extra-legally in defending our interests

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    You are missing the point. Prison rape is almost entirely Black Perp(s)-White Victim. The “Brothas” are perfectly happy with the situation.

  98. @Anonymous Nephew
    OT - "Less than a month after it was revealed that the UK is planning to drop feminism from the politics A-level, every 16-year-old in Sweden is being given a copy of Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s call to arms, We Should All Be Feminists.

    The essay, adapted from Adichie’s award-winning TED talk of the same name, is being distributed in Swedish to high-school students by the Swedish Women’s Lobby and publisher Albert Bonniers. Launching the project at Norra Real high school in Stockholm this week, they said they hoped the book would “work as a stepping stone for a discussion about gender equality and feminism”."

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/dec/04/every-16-year-old-in-sweden-to-receive-copy-of-we-should-all-be-feminists

    Didn't think Sweden could actually get more feminist. Still, I'm sure the recent arrivals will be on board with the agenda.

    also OT -

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/03/gene-editing-summit-rules-out-ban-on-embryos-destined-to-become-people-dna-human

    Replies: @Clyde, @wolfy, @Big Bill

    Wow. The Bonniers are still “healing the world” after four generations in Sweden.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Big Bill

    Most of the current adult Bonniers have one fourth or less Jewish ancestry.

  99. @Steve Sailer
    @The Z Blog

    Right, these days "mismatch" at elite colleges is more about psychological unease than about flunking out.

    I'd be interested, however, in the pre-med track, which pretty much requires surviving a class in organic chemistry that demands immense amounts of memorization. Where are blacks with the same test scores and high school grades more likely to fall off the premed track? A school where they got in on affirmative action or a school where they are in the broad middle of premeds?

    Replies: @Anon, @The Z Blog, @TK421

    At the Ivies, my understanding is the diversity admissions are steered into programs where this is not going to be an issue. You can major in Folklore at Harvard so it’s not as if every is a math major at these schools. For undergrads, there’s a lot of front end sorting and guidance to make sure every student is in a track that they can handle.

    As a consequence of this dotting on the students, graduate admissions have had to “adjust” for transcript inflation at many elite colleges. I know someone on an admissions committee at an elite college and s/he tells me they discount for certain Ivies because they know the transcripts are unreliable as an indicator of success.

    About a dozen years ago there was a study of SAT scores measuring the gaps between blacks and whites at various colleges. My recollection is top of the heap schools like Stanford and Harvard had small spreads. Private colleges like Duke had much wider spreads. When California dropped affirmative action, the spreads at all California colleges supposedly dropped.

    I’m going off memory on that last part.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @The Z Blog

    Harvard can afford the best black students in the country.

  100. @NJ Transit Commuter
    This is exactly why affirmative action is such a disservice to the minority students it is intended to help. I would argue that there is a relatively low correlation between the university one attends and success, broadly defined. Certainly lower than the correlation between career choice and success.

    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton. You want to be an engineer but you are absolutely lost in your initial physics classes. It's not because you are stupid. You are quite intelligent, just not nearly as intelligent as the white and Asian students in your class, because they are held to a higher admissions standard. You change majors, and get a degree in Communications, or some similarly less challenging field where you can keep up with the class material. Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Who's going to have the more successful career? The Communications major from Princeton or the Florida State engineer? And what is the psychological impact of 4-5 years of being hopelessly behind in your classes, rather than being confidently able to master your studies, albeit at a less prestigious school?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @BurplesonAFB, @Boomstick, @E. Rekshun, @Former Darfur

    An AfAm with a degree from Princeton, any degree, has a surer shot at getting on the diversity gravy train than does an engineer from Prole State.

    Michelle Obama was making $500k a year as Senior VP of Diversity (or some such nonsense) at a hospital in Chicago. When she left to live in the white house, they replaced her with nobody.

    • Replies: @JerryC
    @BurplesonAFB

    Michelle got that "job" for being married to a US Senator, not for being a black lady with an Ivy League degree. Obviously they could have found another black lady with a fancy degree to replace her, if that had been the basis of the hire.

  101. But they also aren’t really good students, so the ideas articulated by protesters aren’t very intellectually impressive.

    They also aren’t very good anti-White race hoaxers.

    get themselves hired for academic administration jobs

    A sort of “burrowing in.”

  102. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I always assumed that the benefit of the Ivy League was the opportunity to make connections and participate in extracurriculars, not that you got a more rigorous education than elsewhere. And once you get in, it's almost impossible to flunk out. So it really shouldn't matter if blacks and Hispanics are held to lower standards, at least at the Ivy League level. The state school level is another story, and the attrition rate is significant there. As a graduate student, I taught an intro-level accounting course at a state school. It was considered a "weed-out" class with a failure rate close to 20% on average. I had eight black students. Four of them failed, and one of them got a B (no A's, and about 10-15% of all students got A's). Talking to another TA, he told me that was about how his black students did too.

    Replies: @BurplesonAFB, @Anonymous

    Steve’s not saying the NAM students are flunking out. Obviously they’re still registered and on campus. He’s saying they’re alienated because virtually all the Whites and Asians who get in are a standard deviation or two smarter than they are. One reason this is possible is that the Ivy’s are not “weed-out” institutions.

  103. @Steve Sailer
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    But Princeton is vastly richer than Florida State, and Princeton doesn't like its blacks not doing well, so you'll get lots more free tutoring at Princeton.

    I think mismatch theory tended to be truer 40 years ago, but rich colleges have gotten so rich that they tend to have ways of getting black students through.

    And at Princeton, maybe you switch to econ and go work on Wall Street as a salesman and make a lot more money than if you were an engineer.

    Replies: @lk, @cwhatfuture

    There is no “Communications” major at Princeton. When I went there, no official tutoring was provided outside of introductory subjects (101 to 200 level) and no private tutoring is permitted under the academic code of conduct.

    The fake degrees are limited to grievance studies.

    I am also fairly certain that engineers actually make more money than economics majors, because the iBanking gig only lasts two years for most before they burn out and because Princeton engineering is a pipeline to Silicon Valley.

  104. @NJ Transit Commuter
    This is exactly why affirmative action is such a disservice to the minority students it is intended to help. I would argue that there is a relatively low correlation between the university one attends and success, broadly defined. Certainly lower than the correlation between career choice and success.

    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton. You want to be an engineer but you are absolutely lost in your initial physics classes. It's not because you are stupid. You are quite intelligent, just not nearly as intelligent as the white and Asian students in your class, because they are held to a higher admissions standard. You change majors, and get a degree in Communications, or some similarly less challenging field where you can keep up with the class material. Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Who's going to have the more successful career? The Communications major from Princeton or the Florida State engineer? And what is the psychological impact of 4-5 years of being hopelessly behind in your classes, rather than being confidently able to master your studies, albeit at a less prestigious school?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @BurplesonAFB, @Boomstick, @E. Rekshun, @Former Darfur

    For an undergraduate engineering degree I don’t think the school makes much of a difference in earning potential. State U has a fine engineering program that will get you a good paying job for cheap tuition., provided you can keep up in classes. At the graduate level it starts making a difference.

    Princeton does have an engineering department devoted to Operations Research and Financial Engineering. Combined with the connections at Princeton, and maybe a minor in Econ, that sounds like a license to print money.

    • Replies: @lk
    @Boomstick

    There is no economics minor at Princeton. ORFE does very, very well for itself.

  105. @The Z Blog
    @Steve Sailer

    At the Ivies, my understanding is the diversity admissions are steered into programs where this is not going to be an issue. You can major in Folklore at Harvard so it's not as if every is a math major at these schools. For undergrads, there's a lot of front end sorting and guidance to make sure every student is in a track that they can handle.

    As a consequence of this dotting on the students, graduate admissions have had to "adjust" for transcript inflation at many elite colleges. I know someone on an admissions committee at an elite college and s/he tells me they discount for certain Ivies because they know the transcripts are unreliable as an indicator of success.

    About a dozen years ago there was a study of SAT scores measuring the gaps between blacks and whites at various colleges. My recollection is top of the heap schools like Stanford and Harvard had small spreads. Private colleges like Duke had much wider spreads. When California dropped affirmative action, the spreads at all California colleges supposedly dropped.

    I'm going off memory on that last part.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Harvard can afford the best black students in the country.

  106. @SFG
    "Maybe what’s going on at present — the Liberal Meltdown of 2015 — is that various timeservers in the Obama administration are trying to cause ruckuses on campus for which they’ll be seen as The Solution and get themselves hired for academic administration jobs?"

    Sensible, but I don't know if enough of them have academic backgrounds.

    Here's my theory: the media wants to get blacks, women, and other traditionally Democratic groups riled up for the 2016 election. Hillary's not looking so hot, and they figure every vote counts. (Note also that Missouri is a swing state.) So, play up a few things that you think will get people turning out, and Hillary wins again.


    I'd also add the 60s campus radicals also had to be afraid of being sent to Vietnam and dying, so their protests may have seemed a little more serious. And, in terms of cultural heft, they had much better music.

    Replies: @ShouldWeCare, @Mr. Anon, @Bill Jones

    Lack of any educational background whatsoever was no barrier to Barry’s giant lesbian golem Janet Napolitano becoming President of the University of California.

  107. @Discordiax
    I don't think that this is being driven by lame-duck Obama Administration apparatchiks--they can burrow into the Civil Service fairly easily, and if they don't, Hillary is a pretty strong favorite to keep the Administration Democratic and racial-grievance-monger friendly. (It's possible, but not probable, that Trump can mobilize enough white non-college non-voters to get him over the top.)

    My guess is that this is what happens when the Millenium is a letdown. Obama's election is the Kingdom Come of the integrationist project--remember the crowd chanting "Race doesn't matter!" after Obama won South Carolina? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/26/AR2008012601018.html) Obama is the first black president--and the last "First Black Anything" of any consequence. It's the end of the road.

    But on the ground, not much has changed. Black average IQ is still 1 SD or so below white average. Black college students are still competing with classmates with much higher SATs. Lower IQ, higher testosterone and lower time orientation mean more black criminals, which means more black criminals getting killed by cops.

    It's analogous to the urban riots of the 60s following the Civil Rights Act. (And as an equal opportunity pessimist, I'm already concerned about a Trump Presidency. Charles Schumer will still have 45 or so Senate seats and prevent anything from getting done--what do the folks now slinging around the term cuckservative do then?)

    Replies: @iffen, @Bill

    They aren’t going to burrow into the Civil Service. You know the GS scale tops out around 160K, right? They have had eight years to do favors for big pharma or insurance or banks or whomever. They now get to go collect their payment.

    And as an equal opportunity pessimist, I’m already concerned about a Trump Presidency. Charles Schumer will still have 45 or so Senate seats and prevent anything from getting done–what do the folks now slinging around the term cuckservative do then?

    My plan is to continue posting bilious but ultimately futile comments on the internets.

  108. @anonymous
    @Thrasymachus


    JFK was “Peak Ethnic”- the white ethnics had their turn
     
    Kennedy himself may have been "peak white ethnic" but the man was essential a Catholic WASP, like Bill Buckley.

    In 1960, as Peter Brimelow notes in Alien Nation, the country still identified as a WASP nation -- regardless of one's ethnicity. Thus Kennedy signaled his alignment with these values, even as an Irish Catholic. He quoted John Buchan, wore Sevile Row suits, and was best friends with the Mayflower-descended Ben Bradlee.

    It was the Quaker Richard Nixon who was the tribune of white ethnics, and Agnew who signaled their ascendance.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    You regard the Irish as white?

    How terribly avant garde of you.

  109. @Steve Sailer
    @The Z Blog

    Right, these days "mismatch" at elite colleges is more about psychological unease than about flunking out.

    I'd be interested, however, in the pre-med track, which pretty much requires surviving a class in organic chemistry that demands immense amounts of memorization. Where are blacks with the same test scores and high school grades more likely to fall off the premed track? A school where they got in on affirmative action or a school where they are in the broad middle of premeds?

    Replies: @Anon, @The Z Blog, @TK421

    Xavier University of Louisiana, the only HBCU that is also a Catholic school, produces results.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/magazine/a-prescription-for-more-black-doctors.html?_r=0

    The highlight in numbers
    “It has some 3,000 students and consistently produces more black students who apply to and then graduate from medical school than any other institution in the country. More than big state schools like Michigan or Florida. More than elite Ivies like Harvard and Yale. Xavier is also first in the nation in graduating black students with bachelor’s degrees in biology and physics. It is among the top four institutions graduating black pharmacists. It is third in the nation in black graduates who go on to earn doctorates in science and engineering.”

    How they do it.
    “Francis believed that Xavier should not follow the example of most pre-med programs — ‘‘Look to your left, look to your right; only one of you will still be here at the end’’ — which work to weed out students. To him, that model squandered the talent of far too many students, especially black ones. Instead of compelling students to compete against one another, he said, it made much more sense, both morally and practically, to encourage better-­prepared students to help their classmates who weren’t as fortunate to catch up.”

    “What makes Xavier’s program most unusual is its strictly tailored uniform curriculum in freshman chemistry and biology. The faculty members collaborate on what they will teach and create a workbook for these courses that every professor must use. If professors want to teach something not in a workbook, they must present it to the faculty group for approval. The workbooks take the complicated material in science textbooks, which often overwhelms students, and specifies, step by step, everything students need to know for the class. The faculty members then incorporate regular tests and drills, not only to assess students but also to evaluate whether professors need to adjust their teaching. ”

    • Replies: @lk
    @TK421

    Basically, its KIPP for undergraduates. Who can argue with success?

    , @snorlax
    @TK421

    So they (shock! horror!) teach to the test?!

  110. @Bill in Pasadena
    Whatever happened to the black kid at Berkeley who was profiled in the LA Times a couple years ago? He was obviously a "holistic" admit who was failing badly and much better belonged at Cal State Dominguez Hills or a junior college.

    Replies: @Ed, @Luke Ford

    His Twitter: https://twitter.com/kc062194
    Have a Caltastic day!

  111. @SPMoore8
    @Steve Sailer

    I've known a number of people who were pampered/directed/led into private schools and they excelled there and then went to college and floundered, because they were now just average. These people didn't end up to be "failures", but they ended up with middling careers with not much intellectual demands. Because they really weren't made that way. And what's wrong with that?

    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn't make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren't interested in "intellectual" pursuits to a strong degree.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Immigrant from former USSR, @ben tillman, @Jack D

    Mr. SPMoore8:
    Can you describe how the number IQ =(about)=180 is assessed ?
    I have no doubts that your friend is exceptionally bright guy.
    But where the number came from?

    In my youth (in USSR) there was no testing expressed in numbers.
    I definitely interacted in my lifetime with people who,
    as nowadays I understand, were intrinsically smarter than I am (and was),
    and not just more persistent in their studies.
    And now I understand that it was the actual reason,
    why I had to switch (during graduate program)
    from the theory of elementary particles
    to my favorite subjects of undergraduate years: quantum and nonlinear optics.
    I survived there OK.

    When our daughter was still in High School (here in the USA),
    I told here several times:
    “If I will die before you finish your education,
    you must take LINEAR ALGEBRA course,
    and then you can do with your life whatever you want.”

    She successfully took it twice, and alas,
    now I am free to die.
    Eventually she was accepted to Cal-Tech,
    but went to a particular Ivy
    and graduated from Dept. of Chem. and Chem. Biology.

    My deep respect of smart people, including
    you personally and your remarkable friend.
    Your Im.f.f.U.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    From memory, IQ is assessed numerically from tests at a young age that tests your "mental age." Thus if you score, say, 140 and you are 8 years old then you have the mental age of an 11.2 year old, 180 and you have the mental age of a 14.4 year old, and so on.

    If you look at it in terms of rarity, think like this: 1% is equal to about 135, 140-150 is equal to about 1/100 to 1/1000, 150-160 to 1/1000 to 1/10000, and so on. Someone in the 170-180 range is in the 100000 to one million range.

    What does it mean? Well, if you are in the top 1% you can do just about anything, although I have heard -- and I believe -- that if you want to do physics you need more than that. Typical doctor, lawyer, successful business people are in the 120 range, or so I have heard.

    The guy I have in mind was tested in his childhood about 50 years ago (as I was) and all I recall is that he he was tested in the 170's, and had the highest in his County. Like other gifted people I have known, he tends to be withdrawn, quiet, and laconic when he speaks, unless you manage to open the door on one of the things he is expert on. In general, socially withdrawn, philosophical, stoic, and not particularly ambitious. He has had a quiet life with his wife and his animals.

    I really don't know about the tests administered in the early '60's. I recall that I was 7-8, that I was called in to meet some grownups, that I was afraid I was in trouble, that I was given some written tests, and that a little later (I believe another day) I was interviewed by some grownups and asked a lot of odd questions. So I imagine it was the same for him. I know I also scored in the gifted range, but I don't know my score, and knowing my limitations probably not too high. I think the only reason they tested me is that I was a voracious reader already by that time and I was reading at a teen or adult level already. I know my two children were tested in 150's and 160's respectively.

    I note that most people equate giftedness with math (and associated subjects) but I always preferred languages, philosophy, history, that sort of thing. I ended up using a lot of math which I had to learn on the fly in my work career, but precisely because that's how I used it -- as a job -- I still prefer the softer subjects in my free time.

    I do think that giftedness is a gift but I also think that being intellectually inclined is not the same exact thing. Most gifted people by their natures tend towards the withdrawn and almost autistic range, and it takes an effort to escape that state, which can make one unhappy. One way is to eschew serious study and live close to the earth, as it were. On the other hand, as someone who is not on that level, I frankly like to study, learn new things, and then think about it, and talk about it.

    I agree that Linear Algebra is a fun subject and I have no doubts that you and your daughter are gifted. The difference between you and someone like my friend is really more a matter of speed and easiness of mental operation, along with the seductive properties a gifted mind provides, for escape and daydreams.

    Where does accomplishment fit in there? I do not know. The great minds we remember were the ones that happened to be intensely interested in something that society considered important, and made some discovery that benefited all of us. But there are many others whose shoulders they stand on, and many others too who just happened to be interested in things that were not considered important at the time. So that leaves being a good person, and looking out for your people. And you don't need to be gifted to do that.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @ben tillman

  112. @NJ Transit Commuter
    This is exactly why affirmative action is such a disservice to the minority students it is intended to help. I would argue that there is a relatively low correlation between the university one attends and success, broadly defined. Certainly lower than the correlation between career choice and success.

    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton. You want to be an engineer but you are absolutely lost in your initial physics classes. It's not because you are stupid. You are quite intelligent, just not nearly as intelligent as the white and Asian students in your class, because they are held to a higher admissions standard. You change majors, and get a degree in Communications, or some similarly less challenging field where you can keep up with the class material. Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Who's going to have the more successful career? The Communications major from Princeton or the Florida State engineer? And what is the psychological impact of 4-5 years of being hopelessly behind in your classes, rather than being confidently able to master your studies, albeit at a less prestigious school?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @BurplesonAFB, @Boomstick, @E. Rekshun, @Former Darfur

    Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Perhaps, but in reality, as I recall from my graduate studies there, there are zero black Engineering students at Florida State. None at the University of Florida either.

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @E. Rekshun

    The web pages for the engineering school at FSU-FAMU show several black undergrads.

  113. @Steve Sailer
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    But Princeton is vastly richer than Florida State, and Princeton doesn't like its blacks not doing well, so you'll get lots more free tutoring at Princeton.

    I think mismatch theory tended to be truer 40 years ago, but rich colleges have gotten so rich that they tend to have ways of getting black students through.

    And at Princeton, maybe you switch to econ and go work on Wall Street as a salesman and make a lot more money than if you were an engineer.

    Replies: @lk, @cwhatfuture

    Why is Princeton, or Harvard, or Yale richer than Florida State or any historically black college? This must be remedied. The faculty of those schools, the administrations of those schools and the screaming SJWs at those schools, believe in redistribution of wealth? We must start with those schools.

  114. @BurplesonAFB
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    An AfAm with a degree from Princeton, any degree, has a surer shot at getting on the diversity gravy train than does an engineer from Prole State.

    Michelle Obama was making $500k a year as Senior VP of Diversity (or some such nonsense) at a hospital in Chicago. When she left to live in the white house, they replaced her with nobody.

    Replies: @JerryC

    Michelle got that “job” for being married to a US Senator, not for being a black lady with an Ivy League degree. Obviously they could have found another black lady with a fancy degree to replace her, if that had been the basis of the hire.

  115. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I view the protests as related to the fierce attempt to suppress, demonize, and invalidate scientific inquiry into cognition, behavior, and genetics. In a university setting, all the political activists posing as social scientists know that their life’s work and sacred beliefs are hanging on a thin thread, so it benefits them to support boosting their departments with even more colonialist and free speech-is-imperialist frameworks and mandated critical race theory courses for all. The STEM fields will fight back once their livelihoods, research, hiring processes, and refusal to pander to magical gender thinking are threatened. So far, STEM faculty and students are left alone as long as their references to sacred topics like race are entirely obscure, but there are already hints that the protestors will tackle them next. I don’t think we’ve seen the worst of what these protestors and supportive administrators, faculty, and media are capable of. Extreme pushback has always occured when we were on the cusp of a new scientific paradigm, especially as it enters the mainstream, and as the cliche goes, it gets worse before it gets better.

    It’s not a coincidence that various black academics of undisputed excellence and intellectual honesty have refused to stand uncritically with the protestors. This conversation between Glenn Loury and John McWhorter on the student protests is great.
    http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/37708

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @Anonymous

    As long as the STEM fields are affiliated with money they'll be a target of the race hustlers and adventuresses. It's only in the last few years that they've caught on that there's a lot of money and power in STEM.

    Given the abject, groveling surrender of all the other university departments I don't hold high hopes for the STEM fields showing any spine.

  116. @WGG
    Blacks across the country are scrambling to get attention because they know they are about to go back to the sad old days of "mattering" proportional to their numbers or slightly higher. At 13% of the population, they probably carry about 20% political weight under white administrations. Despite claiming a belief in democracy, they find that number unacceptably low.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Jefferson

    Exactly – the Obama presidency is the high water mark of black political power in this country, and with the demographics being what they are, they know it’s not too long before Hispanics get to ride shotgun while they sit in the back seat of the Democratic Party.

  117. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/11/those-toxic-co-workers/?utm

    Gee, I wonder which races, ethnic groups, or sexual orientations tend to be most ‘toxic’ in study or work environments.

    A recent survey of colleges and journalism would indicate what?

    Well, thankfully, such types are so rare among Jews, homos, and blacks.

    It must be all those white males.

  118. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    A lot of white athletes who were good in high school find themselves eclipsed by blacks in college. Do we see white rage going nuts all over?

    Amy Chua in Tiger Mom book says she couldn’t handle the science stuff her father excelled at. So, she opted for a softer science like economics. She didn’t freak out in rage.

    A lot of blacks enter non-demanding fields like education, political science, sociology, black studies, and etc.

    Also, even successful blacks are a loudmouth jerks. Look at Spike Lee. Kermitty-ass-look-alike jerk.

    It’s just their personality and nature.

    It’s like Jews are pushy as winners and losers. Dershowitz is a winner Jew and pretty nasty. Harvey Pekar was a loser Jew and pretty nasty.

    Don Rickles would have been Don Rickles, rich or poor.

    Ali was a big mouth as contender and as champion. Tyson was a braggart thug as contender, champion, and as has-been.

  119. @anonymous
    @Thrasymachus


    JFK was “Peak Ethnic”- the white ethnics had their turn
     
    Kennedy himself may have been "peak white ethnic" but the man was essential a Catholic WASP, like Bill Buckley.

    In 1960, as Peter Brimelow notes in Alien Nation, the country still identified as a WASP nation -- regardless of one's ethnicity. Thus Kennedy signaled his alignment with these values, even as an Irish Catholic. He quoted John Buchan, wore Sevile Row suits, and was best friends with the Mayflower-descended Ben Bradlee.

    It was the Quaker Richard Nixon who was the tribune of white ethnics, and Agnew who signaled their ascendance.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    “White ethnics” here are Catholics. “Whites” are Protestant. Nixon maybe was the tribune of the Presbyterian Scots Irish?

  120. “You are ‘weasel-like’.”

    LOL

  121. @Anonymous
    I view the protests as related to the fierce attempt to suppress, demonize, and invalidate scientific inquiry into cognition, behavior, and genetics. In a university setting, all the political activists posing as social scientists know that their life's work and sacred beliefs are hanging on a thin thread, so it benefits them to support boosting their departments with even more colonialist and free speech-is-imperialist frameworks and mandated critical race theory courses for all. The STEM fields will fight back once their livelihoods, research, hiring processes, and refusal to pander to magical gender thinking are threatened. So far, STEM faculty and students are left alone as long as their references to sacred topics like race are entirely obscure, but there are already hints that the protestors will tackle them next. I don't think we've seen the worst of what these protestors and supportive administrators, faculty, and media are capable of. Extreme pushback has always occured when we were on the cusp of a new scientific paradigm, especially as it enters the mainstream, and as the cliche goes, it gets worse before it gets better.

    It's not a coincidence that various black academics of undisputed excellence and intellectual honesty have refused to stand uncritically with the protestors. This conversation between Glenn Loury and John McWhorter on the student protests is great.
    http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/37708

    Replies: @Boomstick

    As long as the STEM fields are affiliated with money they’ll be a target of the race hustlers and adventuresses. It’s only in the last few years that they’ve caught on that there’s a lot of money and power in STEM.

    Given the abject, groveling surrender of all the other university departments I don’t hold high hopes for the STEM fields showing any spine.

  122. I think black girls tend to shriek wherever they are. Here’s a black girl, in her natural element of a McDonald’s drive thru, shrieking at a Hispanic worker for having to wait 2 minutes for her order of cookies:

  123. @TangoMan
    Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically

    It's likely that Stuart is misreading the data.

    The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education reports:


    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test. They made up 10.4 percent of all SAT test takers. But only 1,132 African-American college-bound students scored 700 or above on the math SAT and only 1,205 scored at least 700 on the verbal SAT. Nationally, more than 100,000 students of all races scored 700 or above on the math SAT and 78,025 students scored 700 or above on the verbal SAT. Thus, in this top-scoring category of all SAT test takers, blacks made up only 1.1 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the math test and only 1.5 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the verbal SAT. . . . .


    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation's most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

    Once again, if we eliminate Asians and other minorities from the calculations and compare only blacks and whites, we find that 0.2 percent of all black test takers scored 750 or above on the verbal SAT compared to 2.2 percent of all white test takers. Thus, whites were 11 times as likely as blacks to score 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Overall, there were 49 times as many whites as blacks who scored at or above the 750 level.

    On the math SAT, only 0.16 percent of all black test takers scored 750 or above compared to 1.8 percent of white test takers. Thus, whites were more than 11 times as likely as blacks to score 750 or above on the math SAT. Overall, there were more than 61 times as many whites as blacks who scored 750 or above on the math section of the SAT.
     

    ~1% of those scoring above 700, not 1% of all students.

    Bonus fact: In terms of predictive validity, the SAT over-predicts black First Year academic performance according to the EPS technical bulletin.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Olorin, @ben tillman

    Thank you for saving me having to do this.

    “in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test.”

    And what is the overlap of these two categories? Likely fairly strong, meaning that, each year, only a few hundred blacks score at the highest level of some 30,000 students of other races.

    This is absolutely consistent with what IQ distributions would predict, far as I can tell.

  124. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Has anybody read this new novel about NYC, "City on Fire?" Is it good?

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @Anonymous

    I was very disappointed with “City on Fire”. It took a long time to read, and I had to push myself to finish it. Unconvincing characters, unbelievable situations. Seemed like it was trying to be Bonfire-esque but didn’t come close to pulling it off.

  125. @joeyjoejoe
    "Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically for (say) the top Ivy League colleges."

    More innumeracy.

    I just wrote a whole post discussing what TangoMan just presented before I noticed his comment, so I won't repeat it. But in my anecdotal experience, I've never met a black person that could handle even mid-tier engineering (i.e. engineering at a state school rather than MIT/CalTech, etc). I'm sure they exist, but they are exceedingly rare (and are snatched up by MIT/CalTech etc). (a quick discussion of the numbers: 244 blacks exceed 750 on the math portion of the SAT. Split them between high end colleges, then physics, economics, math, engineering, computer science, other sciences, and even business throughout the country. How many are likely to study electrical engineering at Colorado State or Alabama? The pool is exceedingly small).

    I suspect even race realists don't really grok, at a deep level, what the different Bell Curves for whites and blacks means for higher (not just highest, but even slightly higher) academic performance.

    joeyjoejoe

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Big Bill, @ben tillman

    But in my anecdotal experience, I’ve never met a black person that could handle even mid-tier engineering (i.e. engineering at a state school rather than MIT/CalTech, etc). I’m sure they exist, but they are exceedingly rare (and are snatched up by MIT/CalTech etc).

    Here’s a counter-anecdote, I know a Black guy with engineering degrees from Purdue and Georgia Tech. He’s in venture capital now.

  126. @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    Mr. SPMoore8:
    Can you describe how the number IQ =(about)=180 is assessed ?
    I have no doubts that your friend is exceptionally bright guy.
    But where the number came from?

    In my youth (in USSR) there was no testing expressed in numbers.
    I definitely interacted in my lifetime with people who,
    as nowadays I understand, were intrinsically smarter than I am (and was),
    and not just more persistent in their studies.
    And now I understand that it was the actual reason,
    why I had to switch (during graduate program)
    from the theory of elementary particles
    to my favorite subjects of undergraduate years: quantum and nonlinear optics.
    I survived there OK.

    When our daughter was still in High School (here in the USA),
    I told here several times:
    "If I will die before you finish your education,
    you must take LINEAR ALGEBRA course,
    and then you can do with your life whatever you want."

    She successfully took it twice, and alas,
    now I am free to die.
    Eventually she was accepted to Cal-Tech,
    but went to a particular Ivy
    and graduated from Dept. of Chem. and Chem. Biology.

    My deep respect of smart people, including
    you personally and your remarkable friend.
    Your Im.f.f.U.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    From memory, IQ is assessed numerically from tests at a young age that tests your “mental age.” Thus if you score, say, 140 and you are 8 years old then you have the mental age of an 11.2 year old, 180 and you have the mental age of a 14.4 year old, and so on.

    If you look at it in terms of rarity, think like this: 1% is equal to about 135, 140-150 is equal to about 1/100 to 1/1000, 150-160 to 1/1000 to 1/10000, and so on. Someone in the 170-180 range is in the 100000 to one million range.

    What does it mean? Well, if you are in the top 1% you can do just about anything, although I have heard — and I believe — that if you want to do physics you need more than that. Typical doctor, lawyer, successful business people are in the 120 range, or so I have heard.

    The guy I have in mind was tested in his childhood about 50 years ago (as I was) and all I recall is that he he was tested in the 170’s, and had the highest in his County. Like other gifted people I have known, he tends to be withdrawn, quiet, and laconic when he speaks, unless you manage to open the door on one of the things he is expert on. In general, socially withdrawn, philosophical, stoic, and not particularly ambitious. He has had a quiet life with his wife and his animals.

    I really don’t know about the tests administered in the early ’60’s. I recall that I was 7-8, that I was called in to meet some grownups, that I was afraid I was in trouble, that I was given some written tests, and that a little later (I believe another day) I was interviewed by some grownups and asked a lot of odd questions. So I imagine it was the same for him. I know I also scored in the gifted range, but I don’t know my score, and knowing my limitations probably not too high. I think the only reason they tested me is that I was a voracious reader already by that time and I was reading at a teen or adult level already. I know my two children were tested in 150’s and 160’s respectively.

    I note that most people equate giftedness with math (and associated subjects) but I always preferred languages, philosophy, history, that sort of thing. I ended up using a lot of math which I had to learn on the fly in my work career, but precisely because that’s how I used it — as a job — I still prefer the softer subjects in my free time.

    I do think that giftedness is a gift but I also think that being intellectually inclined is not the same exact thing. Most gifted people by their natures tend towards the withdrawn and almost autistic range, and it takes an effort to escape that state, which can make one unhappy. One way is to eschew serious study and live close to the earth, as it were. On the other hand, as someone who is not on that level, I frankly like to study, learn new things, and then think about it, and talk about it.

    I agree that Linear Algebra is a fun subject and I have no doubts that you and your daughter are gifted. The difference between you and someone like my friend is really more a matter of speed and easiness of mental operation, along with the seductive properties a gifted mind provides, for escape and daydreams.

    Where does accomplishment fit in there? I do not know. The great minds we remember were the ones that happened to be intensely interested in something that society considered important, and made some discovery that benefited all of us. But there are many others whose shoulders they stand on, and many others too who just happened to be interested in things that were not considered important at the time. So that leaves being a good person, and looking out for your people. And you don’t need to be gifted to do that.

    • Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
    Im.f.f.U.

    , @ben tillman
    @SPMoore8


    The guy I have in mind was tested in his childhood about 50 years ago (as I was) and all I recall is that he he was tested in the 170′s....
     
    How many times? You have to take a lot of different tests to get any sort of reliable measurement.
  127. @peterike
    Why now? My working assumption has been professional agitators. It's very, very easy to get a bunch of black college kids and their white/Asian Prog sympathizers wound up. What's a lot less likely is a leader rising naturally from this mixed bag of nobodies. But send in some professional organizers and you get things going in no time.

    We know that Soros funds this stuff. There are even government organizations devoted to this kind of thing, hidden under fancy names, but I don't feel like looking any of this up. And then on some campuses it's Uber Left professors behind the scenes making it happen. There is really no such thing as a spontaneous revolution.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @dcite

    I agree completely. The morons who cannot even do a decent black tape hoax are incapable of getting the lazy aggrieved SJWs together for a camera moment. There were outside agitators at the 1968 Chicago riots, and it would be easy and cheap for Soros or his buddies to send some “community organizer” in to spear head this stuff. Plus the MSM is studiously incurious about where the money comes from to buy the bullhorn, print up all the signs, etc.

    This smacks of professional astro turfing.

    • Replies: @Discordiax
    @Jim Don Bob

    You don't need "outside agitators" when you have the faculty. Some of them have spent their adult lives constructing structures of resistance to structural cisheteronormative white supremacy on paper, they can manage to get some alienated students riled up.

  128. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Has anybody read this new novel about NYC, "City on Fire?" Is it good?

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @Anonymous

    In the process of.
    Compelling but long.

  129. @peterike
    Why now? My working assumption has been professional agitators. It's very, very easy to get a bunch of black college kids and their white/Asian Prog sympathizers wound up. What's a lot less likely is a leader rising naturally from this mixed bag of nobodies. But send in some professional organizers and you get things going in no time.

    We know that Soros funds this stuff. There are even government organizations devoted to this kind of thing, hidden under fancy names, but I don't feel like looking any of this up. And then on some campuses it's Uber Left professors behind the scenes making it happen. There is really no such thing as a spontaneous revolution.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @dcite

    Yes, Soros funds it. That man is Dr. Strangelove on steroids. I doubt most of these people would strategize their scream-fests on their own. There’s an entire shadow world of intelligence-operators who keep this street-theater going.

  130. I knew a girl whose parents were “Hispanics” (not even much English). She was an only child and did well in her religious school. She was accepted on scholarship to an Ivy, and wanted to major in math but couldn’t hack it and did end up majoring in something non-STEM, but I can’t recall what. She works in a government agency and married a white American. She was a smart, nice, attractive girl, and very kind, but not really Ivy material. However, she would never have been a bitter shreaker. She just seemed to agree that she was not as good as she thought she was in those subjects. She just seemed to accept it and got on with other matters. If she’d accepted the full scholarship to her the religious college, she could probably have continued the STEM route. It may be true that classroom experience is not drastically more difficult in the Ivies than in a low-tier colleges, but I doubt it. The other classmates, for one thing, would be easier to communicate with. Even my brother, who went to a sub-Ivy (don’t know what else to call it) and majored successfully in engineering, considered some of his more affluent fellow students to be beyond him. Not for reason of intelligence, but just all the other stuff that makes up life at that age. For all the bellyaching about ideals, there is no time of life that is more material.

  131. @Boomstick
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    For an undergraduate engineering degree I don't think the school makes much of a difference in earning potential. State U has a fine engineering program that will get you a good paying job for cheap tuition., provided you can keep up in classes. At the graduate level it starts making a difference.

    Princeton does have an engineering department devoted to Operations Research and Financial Engineering. Combined with the connections at Princeton, and maybe a minor in Econ, that sounds like a license to print money.

    Replies: @lk

    There is no economics minor at Princeton. ORFE does very, very well for itself.

  132. @TK421
    @Steve Sailer

    Xavier University of Louisiana, the only HBCU that is also a Catholic school, produces results.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/magazine/a-prescription-for-more-black-doctors.html?_r=0

    The highlight in numbers
    "It has some 3,000 students and consistently produces more black students who apply to and then graduate from medical school than any other institution in the country. More than big state schools like Michigan or Florida. More than elite Ivies like Harvard and Yale. Xavier is also first in the nation in graduating black students with bachelor’s degrees in biology and physics. It is among the top four institutions graduating black pharmacists. It is third in the nation in black graduates who go on to earn doctorates in science and engineering."

    How they do it.
    "Francis believed that Xavier should not follow the example of most pre-med programs — ‘‘Look to your left, look to your right; only one of you will still be here at the end’’ — which work to weed out students. To him, that model squandered the talent of far too many students, especially black ones. Instead of compelling students to compete against one another, he said, it made much more sense, both morally and practically, to encourage better-­prepared students to help their classmates who weren’t as fortunate to catch up."

    "What makes Xavier’s program most unusual is its strictly tailored uniform curriculum in freshman chemistry and biology. The faculty members collaborate on what they will teach and create a workbook for these courses that every professor must use. If professors want to teach something not in a workbook, they must present it to the faculty group for approval. The workbooks take the complicated material in science textbooks, which often overwhelms students, and specifies, step by step, everything students need to know for the class. The faculty members then incorporate regular tests and drills, not only to assess students but also to evaluate whether professors need to adjust their teaching. "

    Replies: @lk, @snorlax

    Basically, its KIPP for undergraduates. Who can argue with success?

  133. “Maybe what’s going on at present — the Liberal Meltdown of 2015 — is that various timeservers in the Obama administration are trying to cause ruckuses on campus for which they’ll be seen as The Solution and get themselves hired for academic administration jobs?”

    So what? Where did the current white timeservers come from? Why should that nice white lady be on a pension track job as a social worker at the state U. It’s a scam that has been going on in academics since the start of academia.

    “campus radicals were heavily Jewish. So the reigning theories, while puerile, were at least clever.”
    Nostalgia plus watching documentaries might make you think that. Abby Hoffman might have been a genius but the typical campus radical was kid of stupid as they are today. The war in Vietnam may have causing an improvement in the quality of the typical campus radical, who needed to stay in college for the duration of the wartime draft.

  134. @SPMoore8
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    From memory, IQ is assessed numerically from tests at a young age that tests your "mental age." Thus if you score, say, 140 and you are 8 years old then you have the mental age of an 11.2 year old, 180 and you have the mental age of a 14.4 year old, and so on.

    If you look at it in terms of rarity, think like this: 1% is equal to about 135, 140-150 is equal to about 1/100 to 1/1000, 150-160 to 1/1000 to 1/10000, and so on. Someone in the 170-180 range is in the 100000 to one million range.

    What does it mean? Well, if you are in the top 1% you can do just about anything, although I have heard -- and I believe -- that if you want to do physics you need more than that. Typical doctor, lawyer, successful business people are in the 120 range, or so I have heard.

    The guy I have in mind was tested in his childhood about 50 years ago (as I was) and all I recall is that he he was tested in the 170's, and had the highest in his County. Like other gifted people I have known, he tends to be withdrawn, quiet, and laconic when he speaks, unless you manage to open the door on one of the things he is expert on. In general, socially withdrawn, philosophical, stoic, and not particularly ambitious. He has had a quiet life with his wife and his animals.

    I really don't know about the tests administered in the early '60's. I recall that I was 7-8, that I was called in to meet some grownups, that I was afraid I was in trouble, that I was given some written tests, and that a little later (I believe another day) I was interviewed by some grownups and asked a lot of odd questions. So I imagine it was the same for him. I know I also scored in the gifted range, but I don't know my score, and knowing my limitations probably not too high. I think the only reason they tested me is that I was a voracious reader already by that time and I was reading at a teen or adult level already. I know my two children were tested in 150's and 160's respectively.

    I note that most people equate giftedness with math (and associated subjects) but I always preferred languages, philosophy, history, that sort of thing. I ended up using a lot of math which I had to learn on the fly in my work career, but precisely because that's how I used it -- as a job -- I still prefer the softer subjects in my free time.

    I do think that giftedness is a gift but I also think that being intellectually inclined is not the same exact thing. Most gifted people by their natures tend towards the withdrawn and almost autistic range, and it takes an effort to escape that state, which can make one unhappy. One way is to eschew serious study and live close to the earth, as it were. On the other hand, as someone who is not on that level, I frankly like to study, learn new things, and then think about it, and talk about it.

    I agree that Linear Algebra is a fun subject and I have no doubts that you and your daughter are gifted. The difference between you and someone like my friend is really more a matter of speed and easiness of mental operation, along with the seductive properties a gifted mind provides, for escape and daydreams.

    Where does accomplishment fit in there? I do not know. The great minds we remember were the ones that happened to be intensely interested in something that society considered important, and made some discovery that benefited all of us. But there are many others whose shoulders they stand on, and many others too who just happened to be interested in things that were not considered important at the time. So that leaves being a good person, and looking out for your people. And you don't need to be gifted to do that.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @ben tillman

    Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
    Im.f.f.U.

  135. @E. Rekshun
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Perhaps, but in reality, as I recall from my graduate studies there, there are zero black Engineering students at Florida State. None at the University of Florida either.

    Replies: @Boomstick

    The web pages for the engineering school at FSU-FAMU show several black undergrads.

  136. @Jim Don Bob
    @peterike

    I agree completely. The morons who cannot even do a decent black tape hoax are incapable of getting the lazy aggrieved SJWs together for a camera moment. There were outside agitators at the 1968 Chicago riots, and it would be easy and cheap for Soros or his buddies to send some "community organizer" in to spear head this stuff. Plus the MSM is studiously incurious about where the money comes from to buy the bullhorn, print up all the signs, etc.

    This smacks of professional astro turfing.

    Replies: @Discordiax

    You don’t need “outside agitators” when you have the faculty. Some of them have spent their adult lives constructing structures of resistance to structural cisheteronormative white supremacy on paper, they can manage to get some alienated students riled up.

  137. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    High IQ isn’t everything in life. My father, mother, sister, aunt, and uncle are all scientists, and every single one of the numbnuts voted for Obama . . . twice. I’m the one with the liberal arts degree, yet I figured him out early on and voted Republican both times. All I needed to know were three things:

    1) Obama was a bill-jacker as a state senator, tacking his name on bills he did no work for and then grandstanding for the media when the bill passed.

    2) He couldn’t be bothered to show up to do his job as US Senator. If that job isn’t important enough for you actually work at it, you’re not going to work at being President, either.

    3) He was more married to his microphone than his own wife. Conclusion: Lazy, self-centered narcissist. Obama would have been a lousy hire for any job. My conclusion wasn’t based on IQ, but an application of horse sense plus a lack of romantic blinkers.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anon

    "He was more married to his microphone than his own wife."

    On this count, it's to Obummer's credit.

    I mean just look at Miss Hell O.

  138. @flyingtiger
    I may have an explanation on why black autumn is happening. I noticed that all the friends that I met in college, I met at orientation or in my first classes. Other college graduates have noted that also. The first semester seems to be very important for socialization. The local college has this "outreach" program for minorities. They even have a separate orientation for the minorities. Hence from the very beginning they are isolated from the majority of students. At a certain point, they get angry and form protest groups that issue unworkable demands.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @ben tillman

    I noticed that all the friends that I met in college, I met at orientation or in my first classes. Other college graduates have noted that also. The first semester seems to be very important for socialization. The local college has this “outreach” program for minorities. They even have a separate orientation for the minorities. Hence from the very beginning they are isolated from the majority of students.

    We had the same thing at Brown, called the Third World Transition Program. My friends noted at the time that it could serve to isolate students for the reasons you mentioned and that the “Third World” reference might be more than a bit offensive to Blacks from somewhere like St. Louis Country Day.

  139. @panjoomby
    @keypusher

    Hispanics with a masters have a lower IQ (slightly) than Hispanics with a bachelors? should that 106.4 be a 108.4?

    Replies: @Sleep, @keypusher

    It may have something to do with schoolteachers often needing a master’s degree in Education whereas many jobs in tech fields only require a bachelor’s degree. As to why, if my theory is right, it affects Hispanics more than others, I can’t say.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Sleep

    School teachers in my county do not need a Masters degree, but they receive a large salary bump if they "earn" one. You can imagine how hard the curicullum for a Masters in Education is.

  140. “Anti-racism” etc. is simply a pretext designed to justify why parasites should be allowed to stay attached to their hosts. The more damage it does to the hosts, the more obvious the lack of benefits to the host the parasitic relationship has, the wilder and louder the excuses and lamentations from the ticks become.

  141. @TangoMan
    Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically

    It's likely that Stuart is misreading the data.

    The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education reports:


    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test. They made up 10.4 percent of all SAT test takers. But only 1,132 African-American college-bound students scored 700 or above on the math SAT and only 1,205 scored at least 700 on the verbal SAT. Nationally, more than 100,000 students of all races scored 700 or above on the math SAT and 78,025 students scored 700 or above on the verbal SAT. Thus, in this top-scoring category of all SAT test takers, blacks made up only 1.1 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the math test and only 1.5 percent of the students scoring 700 or higher on the verbal SAT. . . . .


    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation's most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

    Once again, if we eliminate Asians and other minorities from the calculations and compare only blacks and whites, we find that 0.2 percent of all black test takers scored 750 or above on the verbal SAT compared to 2.2 percent of all white test takers. Thus, whites were 11 times as likely as blacks to score 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Overall, there were 49 times as many whites as blacks who scored at or above the 750 level.

    On the math SAT, only 0.16 percent of all black test takers scored 750 or above compared to 1.8 percent of white test takers. Thus, whites were more than 11 times as likely as blacks to score 750 or above on the math SAT. Overall, there were more than 61 times as many whites as blacks who scored 750 or above on the math section of the SAT.
     

    ~1% of those scoring above 700, not 1% of all students.

    Bonus fact: In terms of predictive validity, the SAT over-predicts black First Year academic performance according to the EPS technical bulletin.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Olorin, @ben tillman

    Bonus fact: In terms of predictive validity, the SAT over-predicts black First Year academic performance according to the EPS technical bulletin.

    La Griffe du Lion explained this a long time ago.

  142. @keypusher
    Tying this and your last post together, Murray's footnote from Coming Apart:

    Chapter 2, n. 30, IQ broken down by degree attainment (by 2000) and race, the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, 1979 cohort.
    White
    Bachelor’s — 113.3
    Masters — 116.9
    Ph.D./Professional (f/e J.D.) — 125.6

    Black
    Bachelor’s — 99.1
    Masters — 101.7
    Ph.D./Professional — 112.2

    Hispanic
    Bachelor’s — 106.7
    Masters — 106.4
    Ph.D./Professional — 115.2

    Even 15 years ago, black Ph.D.'s had an IQ approximately equal to white college grads, and about a standard deviation below white Ph.D.'s. I doubt that particular gap has gotten any smaller (though more recent data would be welcome). Despite this, blacks remain drastically underrepresented among the ranks of college professors relative to their share of the population.

    How to increase their numbers? Mandate greater "diversity" in hiring and increase the number and size of racial/ethnic studies departments.

    However unhinged and even childish the protesters may appear, their demands are entirely rational from the perspective of black academics, and black students who would like to become black academics.

    I think it's a mistake to tie this to the election cycle, or revivalist fervor. The drive for diversity has been a feature of American life for 50 years, and since the percentage of URMs is constantly increasing, while the gaps stay (at a minimum) the same size, there is no reason to expect the drive to slacken, much less to cease.

    Replies: @panjoomby, @Jack D

    These stats just show the same 1SD gap in intelligence that show up on every conceivable measure ever since it became possible to measure IQ. This is about as close to a physical constant as anything in the social sciences – a lot firmer than 99% of what passes for social “science”.

    It’s even worse than those statistics make it appear. At the high end, you have a lot of mulattoes raised by white mothers like Obama (or even more white – people who are 3/4 or more white), West Indians and Nigerians (particularly Ib0). Actual mostly black descendants of African-American slaves coming from low income households (Ben Carson types) are as rare as hen’s teeth on the high end. (Speaking of Carson, there is something “off” about the guy – he sounds like Peter Sellers in Being There.) If you read Michelle Obama’s Princeton thesis it reads like a white kid’s high school paper.

    And then when you get to the super high end, the discrepancy is even worse – the total number of black mathematical super geniuses is (allowing for rounding) roughly zero. E.g. zero Fields Medal winners (as opposed to Jews, who have received around 1/4 of all Fields Medals despite constituting a vanishingly small % of the world population. This is the 1SD gap acting in the other direction).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    David Blackwell was a legit innovator in statistics theory:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Blackwell

    He looks like about 3/8ths black.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  143. @TK421
    @Steve Sailer

    Xavier University of Louisiana, the only HBCU that is also a Catholic school, produces results.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/magazine/a-prescription-for-more-black-doctors.html?_r=0

    The highlight in numbers
    "It has some 3,000 students and consistently produces more black students who apply to and then graduate from medical school than any other institution in the country. More than big state schools like Michigan or Florida. More than elite Ivies like Harvard and Yale. Xavier is also first in the nation in graduating black students with bachelor’s degrees in biology and physics. It is among the top four institutions graduating black pharmacists. It is third in the nation in black graduates who go on to earn doctorates in science and engineering."

    How they do it.
    "Francis believed that Xavier should not follow the example of most pre-med programs — ‘‘Look to your left, look to your right; only one of you will still be here at the end’’ — which work to weed out students. To him, that model squandered the talent of far too many students, especially black ones. Instead of compelling students to compete against one another, he said, it made much more sense, both morally and practically, to encourage better-­prepared students to help their classmates who weren’t as fortunate to catch up."

    "What makes Xavier’s program most unusual is its strictly tailored uniform curriculum in freshman chemistry and biology. The faculty members collaborate on what they will teach and create a workbook for these courses that every professor must use. If professors want to teach something not in a workbook, they must present it to the faculty group for approval. The workbooks take the complicated material in science textbooks, which often overwhelms students, and specifies, step by step, everything students need to know for the class. The faculty members then incorporate regular tests and drills, not only to assess students but also to evaluate whether professors need to adjust their teaching. "

    Replies: @lk, @snorlax

    So they (shock! horror!) teach to the test?!

  144. Late to the show….I wrote a series of tweets on the piece that touch on some of the points raised here.

    I think Taylor’s wrong. While I’m not a fan of affirmative action, the kids squawking are almost certainly not feeling inferior or suffering from mismatch. There’s a lot of consistency in the stories of these kids, and they are very similar: kid is ashamed, demoralized, embarrassed and either redoubles efforts or drops out.

    These kids are entitled brats at schools that, for the most part, will handhold them through.

    And these days, a 700 SAT doesn’t say nearly as much as it used to, so it’s not like the other kids are so brilliant that your average black 550 section average feels inadequate.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @education realist

    You say that Taylor's solution would work only if the (black) kids who are current at 3rd tier schools like Missouri were "simply denied" access to college.

    You make that sound like it's a bad thing. Some with 400 SATs, black or white, is not college material. They are just not capable of doing true college level work, certainly not in any STEM field. You can put them in some "studies" major and push (s0me of) them thru but their degrees are essentially meaningless.

    Currently whites with those type of scores are in fact "denied" - Taylor is just proposing that we run admissions on a color blind basis. Why is it right to "simply deny" admission to whites while offering admission to blacks with the same qualifications?

    Wouldn't it be better to encourage people with 85-95 IQs (of any race) to learn some useful trade (HVAC repair, auto mechanics, tailoring, cooking, etc.) rather than churn out some more race and gender studies majors?

    Replies: @TangoMan, @Jefferson

  145. @Anon
    High IQ isn't everything in life. My father, mother, sister, aunt, and uncle are all scientists, and every single one of the numbnuts voted for Obama . . . twice. I'm the one with the liberal arts degree, yet I figured him out early on and voted Republican both times. All I needed to know were three things:

    1) Obama was a bill-jacker as a state senator, tacking his name on bills he did no work for and then grandstanding for the media when the bill passed.

    2) He couldn't be bothered to show up to do his job as US Senator. If that job isn't important enough for you actually work at it, you're not going to work at being President, either.

    3) He was more married to his microphone than his own wife. Conclusion: Lazy, self-centered narcissist. Obama would have been a lousy hire for any job. My conclusion wasn't based on IQ, but an application of horse sense plus a lack of romantic blinkers.

    Replies: @Anon

    “He was more married to his microphone than his own wife.”

    On this count, it’s to Obummer’s credit.

    I mean just look at Miss Hell O.

  146. @SPMoore8
    @Steve Sailer

    I've known a number of people who were pampered/directed/led into private schools and they excelled there and then went to college and floundered, because they were now just average. These people didn't end up to be "failures", but they ended up with middling careers with not much intellectual demands. Because they really weren't made that way. And what's wrong with that?

    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn't make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren't interested in "intellectual" pursuits to a strong degree.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Immigrant from former USSR, @ben tillman, @Jack D

    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn’t make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren’t interested in “intellectual” pursuits to a strong degree.

    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You described the 180-IQ construction-worker guy as an intellectual, did you not?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @ben tillman


    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You described the 180-IQ construction-worker guy as an intellectual, did you not?

     

    http://www.hofferproject.org/HPhoffer.html

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @SPMoore8
    @ben tillman

    Well, the original comment I was responding to had to do with bright kids who found themselves in over their heads in college; they were no longer stars, and they would get depressed and sort of "drop out." However, there's a broad range of outcomes between receiving the Nobel and dying of a heroin overdose in the gutter on 9th Avenue. So my first point was that there are a lot of pretty intelligent people (surely 1%) who stop striving to be best and yet go on to have pretty good, quiet, anonymous lives.

    Then that reminded me of the super-bright people I have known, and that reminded me of this particular fellow. My overall point is that high IQ itself is not an indication of accomplishment and that even some super bright people would prefer to just live in a cabin in the woods (now you've got me thinking of Ted Kaczynski: an intellectual? You decide).

    Then in my response to the Russian fellow I elaborated on the distinction between high IQ as such and "intellectual activity" as we tend to define it here (with a heavy STEM emphasis). And that linkage doesn't really hold either. The way I would put it is that people with high IQ's have a real problem in life with isolation; and overcoming that problem is, for many, way more important than following their intellectual interests, which tend to be somewhat OCD in nature.

    As for the intellectual activity of the person I have in mind, I'd say his intellectual interests, by the time I met him, were desultory and dilletantish. It was relatively easy for him to master things, it wasn't a challenge, it didn't make him happy, so he didn't take it seriously. As for living in his mind, As for "living in his mind", I think most highly intelligent people do that. Real life is like a window at the bottom of the screen that you bring up as needed, the rest of the time you're just thinking about stuff. But I wouldn't describe that as being particularly "intellectual."

    , @JSM
    @ben tillman

    My dad had an IQ test when he went in the army in the 1940s. He told me it came back as 160.

    Was he lying? I don't know for sure, but based on my son, I believe him now.

    My dad was self-employed, building residential houses on speculation. It was an intellectually challenging thing he enjoyed very much. He employed White guys who cared about the work they did, and paid them well. His homes, forty years later, having been well built, are still lovely and family-friendly.

    *** It's flat evil that American society has replaced smart White guys who want to do good work with their hands and actually build something well, and in so doing be paid the nicely middle-class wages carpentry used to pay, with stupid people who do poor quality work but work cheap.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  147. @Jack D
    @keypusher

    These stats just show the same 1SD gap in intelligence that show up on every conceivable measure ever since it became possible to measure IQ. This is about as close to a physical constant as anything in the social sciences - a lot firmer than 99% of what passes for social "science".

    It's even worse than those statistics make it appear. At the high end, you have a lot of mulattoes raised by white mothers like Obama (or even more white - people who are 3/4 or more white), West Indians and Nigerians (particularly Ib0). Actual mostly black descendants of African-American slaves coming from low income households (Ben Carson types) are as rare as hen's teeth on the high end. (Speaking of Carson, there is something "off" about the guy - he sounds like Peter Sellers in Being There.) If you read Michelle Obama's Princeton thesis it reads like a white kid's high school paper.

    And then when you get to the super high end, the discrepancy is even worse - the total number of black mathematical super geniuses is (allowing for rounding) roughly zero. E.g. zero Fields Medal winners (as opposed to Jews, who have received around 1/4 of all Fields Medals despite constituting a vanishingly small % of the world population. This is the 1SD gap acting in the other direction).

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    David Blackwell was a legit innovator in statistics theory:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Blackwell

    He looks like about 3/8ths black.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer



    David Blackwell was a legit innovator in statistics theory:

     

    Did he quantify bad fashion on women?
  148. @education realist
    Late to the show....I wrote a series of tweets on the piece that touch on some of the points raised here.

    I think Taylor's wrong. While I'm not a fan of affirmative action, the kids squawking are almost certainly not feeling inferior or suffering from mismatch. There's a lot of consistency in the stories of these kids, and they are very similar: kid is ashamed, demoralized, embarrassed and either redoubles efforts or drops out.

    These kids are entitled brats at schools that, for the most part, will handhold them through.

    And these days, a 700 SAT doesn't say nearly as much as it used to, so it's not like the other kids are so brilliant that your average black 550 section average feels inadequate.

    Replies: @Jack D

    You say that Taylor’s solution would work only if the (black) kids who are current at 3rd tier schools like Missouri were “simply denied” access to college.

    You make that sound like it’s a bad thing. Some with 400 SATs, black or white, is not college material. They are just not capable of doing true college level work, certainly not in any STEM field. You can put them in some “studies” major and push (s0me of) them thru but their degrees are essentially meaningless.

    Currently whites with those type of scores are in fact “denied” – Taylor is just proposing that we run admissions on a color blind basis. Why is it right to “simply deny” admission to whites while offering admission to blacks with the same qualifications?

    Wouldn’t it be better to encourage people with 85-95 IQs (of any race) to learn some useful trade (HVAC repair, auto mechanics, tailoring, cooking, etc.) rather than churn out some more race and gender studies majors?

    • Replies: @TangoMan
    @Jack D

    Taylor is just proposing that we run admissions on a color blind basis.

    Taylor wants an Equal Opportunity Society. NAMs want an Equal Outcome Society. Square peg and round whole problem. These two worldviews are incompatible. If Taylor gets what he wants we're on the road to a blatant racial caste society where no blacks (excepting rounding errors) make it to the top of society and benefit from the social networks formed at top schools.

    If we stick with a multicultural society then quotas are a non-negotiable element. If you value freedom and merit, then you better get right with what it's going to take to rid ourselves of multiculturalism.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @keypusher

    , @Jefferson
    @Jack D

    "Wouldn’t it be better to encourage people with 85-95 IQs (of any race) to learn some useful trade (HVAC repair, auto mechanics, tailoring, cooking, etc.) rather than churn out some more race and gender studies majors?"

    Trade school means working with your hands and standing up a lot or most of the time. Tyrone does not like working with his hands unless it involves a football, basketball, or bat in his hands. Tyrone wants a comfortable government job where he is sitting down most of the time. It's either sports, physically comfortable government job, or thug life.

  149. @ben tillman
    @SPMoore8


    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn’t make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren’t interested in “intellectual” pursuits to a strong degree.
     
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You described the 180-IQ construction-worker guy as an intellectual, did you not?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @SPMoore8, @JSM

    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You described the 180-IQ construction-worker guy as an intellectual, did you not?

    http://www.hofferproject.org/HPhoffer.html

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right. Doing construction work is a much more suitable occupation for an intellectual than is something like practicing law.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @SPMoore8

  150. @SPMoore8
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    From memory, IQ is assessed numerically from tests at a young age that tests your "mental age." Thus if you score, say, 140 and you are 8 years old then you have the mental age of an 11.2 year old, 180 and you have the mental age of a 14.4 year old, and so on.

    If you look at it in terms of rarity, think like this: 1% is equal to about 135, 140-150 is equal to about 1/100 to 1/1000, 150-160 to 1/1000 to 1/10000, and so on. Someone in the 170-180 range is in the 100000 to one million range.

    What does it mean? Well, if you are in the top 1% you can do just about anything, although I have heard -- and I believe -- that if you want to do physics you need more than that. Typical doctor, lawyer, successful business people are in the 120 range, or so I have heard.

    The guy I have in mind was tested in his childhood about 50 years ago (as I was) and all I recall is that he he was tested in the 170's, and had the highest in his County. Like other gifted people I have known, he tends to be withdrawn, quiet, and laconic when he speaks, unless you manage to open the door on one of the things he is expert on. In general, socially withdrawn, philosophical, stoic, and not particularly ambitious. He has had a quiet life with his wife and his animals.

    I really don't know about the tests administered in the early '60's. I recall that I was 7-8, that I was called in to meet some grownups, that I was afraid I was in trouble, that I was given some written tests, and that a little later (I believe another day) I was interviewed by some grownups and asked a lot of odd questions. So I imagine it was the same for him. I know I also scored in the gifted range, but I don't know my score, and knowing my limitations probably not too high. I think the only reason they tested me is that I was a voracious reader already by that time and I was reading at a teen or adult level already. I know my two children were tested in 150's and 160's respectively.

    I note that most people equate giftedness with math (and associated subjects) but I always preferred languages, philosophy, history, that sort of thing. I ended up using a lot of math which I had to learn on the fly in my work career, but precisely because that's how I used it -- as a job -- I still prefer the softer subjects in my free time.

    I do think that giftedness is a gift but I also think that being intellectually inclined is not the same exact thing. Most gifted people by their natures tend towards the withdrawn and almost autistic range, and it takes an effort to escape that state, which can make one unhappy. One way is to eschew serious study and live close to the earth, as it were. On the other hand, as someone who is not on that level, I frankly like to study, learn new things, and then think about it, and talk about it.

    I agree that Linear Algebra is a fun subject and I have no doubts that you and your daughter are gifted. The difference between you and someone like my friend is really more a matter of speed and easiness of mental operation, along with the seductive properties a gifted mind provides, for escape and daydreams.

    Where does accomplishment fit in there? I do not know. The great minds we remember were the ones that happened to be intensely interested in something that society considered important, and made some discovery that benefited all of us. But there are many others whose shoulders they stand on, and many others too who just happened to be interested in things that were not considered important at the time. So that leaves being a good person, and looking out for your people. And you don't need to be gifted to do that.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @ben tillman

    The guy I have in mind was tested in his childhood about 50 years ago (as I was) and all I recall is that he he was tested in the 170′s….

    How many times? You have to take a lot of different tests to get any sort of reliable measurement.

  151. @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    David Blackwell was a legit innovator in statistics theory:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Blackwell

    He looks like about 3/8ths black.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    David Blackwell was a legit innovator in statistics theory:

    Did he quantify bad fashion on women?

  152. @Anonymous
    I graduated from an Ivy League school (Penn) last year. There's an important detail that needs to be added to this: the majority of black students on campus are focused on getting high paying finance and law jobs when they graduate. There are also a fair number who are devout Christians. Some, even most, of the Christians and the future-wealth-acquisitioners probably sympathize with these protests in some abstract way, but in practice they're annoyed by them. Vocally annoyed by them. These kids go to college to get access to big salary jobs, not become affirmative bureaucrats.

    The small contingent of black protesters at Penn was hilarious. They did a 'mock slave auction' in front of a fraternity to protest the fraternity buying a Beyonce themed sex doll. Seriously. http://www.thedp.com/article/2015/04/soul-protesting-for-black-women-in-front-of-phi-delta-theta-fraternity

    The protest had 15 people in it, tops.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    The protest had 15 people in it, tops.

    The 1960s “protests: were similarly staged to look large on camera, but in reality were quite small. The money men behind them clearly had a lot of background in television/film production to set up scenes correctly for the cameras to capture and make look massive.

  153. @SPMoore8
    @Steve Sailer

    I've known a number of people who were pampered/directed/led into private schools and they excelled there and then went to college and floundered, because they were now just average. These people didn't end up to be "failures", but they ended up with middling careers with not much intellectual demands. Because they really weren't made that way. And what's wrong with that?

    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn't make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren't interested in "intellectual" pursuits to a strong degree.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Immigrant from former USSR, @ben tillman, @Jack D

    With all due respect, I doubt that your friend’s IQ is really 180. The frequency of IQ >180 is approximately 1 in 3.5 million, so there are fewer than 100 such individuals in the entire US. Most IQ tests ceiling out well before 180 so it’s not even possible to measure such an IQ using normal IQ tests. How do you know that this is his IQ?

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Jack D

    You might be right that the person I have in mind (I can think of a few others I have known who were similar) does not have an IQ of 180 (although what I actually said was that it was "around" that point.) I only know that because it was told to me by people who knew him before I met him. I don't see any reason to question it.

    My overall point is that there are a number of highly gifted, high IQ types who aren't particularly accomplished. I think it has to do with the fact that the challenges of isolation and lack of social integration for such individuals are greater than any intellectual ambitions they might have.

    I agree with you that IQ testing above a certain point is questionable. For example, I have my doubts about my own children's IQ's (also reported to me). But I can only report what I have heard. I think there is an assumption that people with "High IQ's" are all going to be accomplished in certain ways, and I think that is wrong.

  154. @Reg Cæsar
    @ben tillman


    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You described the 180-IQ construction-worker guy as an intellectual, did you not?

     

    http://www.hofferproject.org/HPhoffer.html

    Replies: @ben tillman

    Right. Doing construction work is a much more suitable occupation for an intellectual than is something like practicing law.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @ben tillman


    Doing construction work is a much more suitable occupation for an intellectual than is something like practicing law.
     
    Depends on what one is constructing, and how far one's title departs from one's actual occupation. See:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9bastien_Le_Prestre_de_Vauban
    , @SPMoore8
    @ben tillman

    I think you are confusing "intellectual", i.e., someone who spends their time in intellectual pursuits, with high IQ. I don't think they are the same thing. I also don't think "intellectual pursuits", i.e., study, is the same as living in your mind.

    I can think of a lot of reasons why someone with a high IQ would not want to be a lawyer, or in any number of professions. The #1 reason is that professions take up a lot of your mental life, too much if you have other interests that are more important to you.

  155. @Jack D
    @education realist

    You say that Taylor's solution would work only if the (black) kids who are current at 3rd tier schools like Missouri were "simply denied" access to college.

    You make that sound like it's a bad thing. Some with 400 SATs, black or white, is not college material. They are just not capable of doing true college level work, certainly not in any STEM field. You can put them in some "studies" major and push (s0me of) them thru but their degrees are essentially meaningless.

    Currently whites with those type of scores are in fact "denied" - Taylor is just proposing that we run admissions on a color blind basis. Why is it right to "simply deny" admission to whites while offering admission to blacks with the same qualifications?

    Wouldn't it be better to encourage people with 85-95 IQs (of any race) to learn some useful trade (HVAC repair, auto mechanics, tailoring, cooking, etc.) rather than churn out some more race and gender studies majors?

    Replies: @TangoMan, @Jefferson

    Taylor is just proposing that we run admissions on a color blind basis.

    Taylor wants an Equal Opportunity Society. NAMs want an Equal Outcome Society. Square peg and round whole problem. These two worldviews are incompatible. If Taylor gets what he wants we’re on the road to a blatant racial caste society where no blacks (excepting rounding errors) make it to the top of society and benefit from the social networks formed at top schools.

    If we stick with a multicultural society then quotas are a non-negotiable element. If you value freedom and merit, then you better get right with what it’s going to take to rid ourselves of multiculturalism.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @TangoMan


    the social networks formed at top schools
     
    top schools are going the way of Top. Men.
    , @keypusher
    @TangoMan

    Bingo. I think that's why law professors tend to criticize Taylor's co-author Richard Sander so bitterly -- even though they rarely say it in plain words, they've worked out the consequences of his proposal, which include top law schools that are about as black-free as Tulane L.S. a hundred years ago.

    The ultimate, unassailable justification for affirmative action in higher ed in this country is that you would have virtually no blacks or Hispanics in elite schools without it. It would be nice if that justification could be uttered plainly, but there seems to be no chance of that.

  156. @NJ Transit Commuter
    This is exactly why affirmative action is such a disservice to the minority students it is intended to help. I would argue that there is a relatively low correlation between the university one attends and success, broadly defined. Certainly lower than the correlation between career choice and success.

    Imagine you are a minority student matriculating at Princeton. You want to be an engineer but you are absolutely lost in your initial physics classes. It's not because you are stupid. You are quite intelligent, just not nearly as intelligent as the white and Asian students in your class, because they are held to a higher admissions standard. You change majors, and get a degree in Communications, or some similarly less challenging field where you can keep up with the class material. Without the preferential treatment of affirmative action, you would have attended Florida State. At Florida State, where your intelligence is equivalent to your peers, you would have been able to complete an engineering degree.

    Who's going to have the more successful career? The Communications major from Princeton or the Florida State engineer? And what is the psychological impact of 4-5 years of being hopelessly behind in your classes, rather than being confidently able to master your studies, albeit at a less prestigious school?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @BurplesonAFB, @Boomstick, @E. Rekshun, @Former Darfur

    Engineering jobs are not all highly rigorous and many of them don’t even involve actual designing. I worked for an electronics firm whose core competency was its leading edge use of DSP, and they had a group of really first rate engineers and programmers doing that-three or four of them-and seven or eight other engineers that did the support stuff like power supplies, the analog sections, ISO-9000 paperwork, component specification, etc. Most of that was stuff that any really determined hobbyist or field tech could have done with a little occasional direction from one good engineer-it was all cookbook stuff, strung together from app manuals and schematics of other companies’ designs. For the guys they hired for those positions, most with degrees from bottom tier schools (we actually had one guy who had earned a degree from the old mail order Cook’s Institute of Electronc Engineering, a correspondence school advertising in ham radio and audiophile magazines) they found the work fun and far more to their liking than what a Communications or Poli Sci degree would have prepared them for.

    Indeed, there are “sales engineering” and “support engineering” jobs that are actually just regular old sales or technician jobs but which the companies feel the need to hire people with degrees in engineering for. Maintaining MRI machines is a good example-it’s a technician/mechanic job, but because of the cost of the machine and perceived liability they only hire degreed EEs or EET’s (an EET is essentially a glorified technician with a little more math and some basic design tasks: they have heard of a Bode plot and poles and zeroes and margins of stability, but can’t usually really apply it to any very complex network: they can tell you what the Smith Chart is and the basic ideas, etc.) for the job. No real design engineer is going to want a job like that.

    For those jobs, the smarter blacks are sometimes well suited. None of them is going to do what a Bob Widlar or a Barrie Gilbert is going to. I’m sure the situation in mechanical or aeronautical is similar: aeroelasticity and flutter are one thing, drawing up a shelf for a coffeemaker that attaches to bulkheads is another.

    • Replies: @cthulhu
    @Former Darfur



    I’m sure the situation in mechanical or aeronautical is similar: aeroelasticity and flutter are one thing, drawing up a shelf for a coffeemaker that attaches to bulkheads is another.

     

    There is definitely a hierarchy of capabilities in aerospace engineering: aeroelasticity, flutter, flight control and flight dynamics, aerodynamics, stress analysis...the major aerospace companies are always on the lookout for good people in these fields, and spend a lot of time developing promising young engineers in these areas. There just aren't that many people who have expertise in these fields; I once estimated that there were certainly less than 1000 and probably less than 500 experienced flight control engineers in the entire U.S. I recently heard somebody who was considering moving into the flight control area decide not to, because "that group works too hard!"

    But good mechanical design engineers are sought after too, but they can be easier to find. There's a subculture of designers that might work as contract labor for 12-18 months straight, with tons of overtime, then take off for six months and not work at all. For a new program, this is often exactly what the company is looking for: short term help to get all of the drawings done and released, then turn the mechanical design fully over to the salaried staff. I know people who love that lifestyle, although it would drive me crazy.

    In general though, nobody's going to make fuck-you money from engineering unless you go into management, and maybe not even then.
  157. @Sleep
    @panjoomby

    It may have something to do with schoolteachers often needing a master's degree in Education whereas many jobs in tech fields only require a bachelor's degree. As to why, if my theory is right, it affects Hispanics more than others, I can't say.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    School teachers in my county do not need a Masters degree, but they receive a large salary bump if they “earn” one. You can imagine how hard the curicullum for a Masters in Education is.

  158. If there is an intellectual disease running rampant among Progwhites, and there is good evidence that this is presently the case:

    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/56-the-stupidity-of-intelligence/

    then the sort of blacks who have been torn away from the communities that raised them, and the traditional opportunities those communities offered (including a Sense of Reality that provided some resistance to said disease), are not only being pressed into service in a war they don’t really believe in – on behalf of Progwhites they despise* – they are also being compelled to share ideological blankets with a terrifying concentration of intellectual Typhoid Marys.

    * – hence the similarity with Vietnam War protestors

  159. @TangoMan
    @Jack D

    Taylor is just proposing that we run admissions on a color blind basis.

    Taylor wants an Equal Opportunity Society. NAMs want an Equal Outcome Society. Square peg and round whole problem. These two worldviews are incompatible. If Taylor gets what he wants we're on the road to a blatant racial caste society where no blacks (excepting rounding errors) make it to the top of society and benefit from the social networks formed at top schools.

    If we stick with a multicultural society then quotas are a non-negotiable element. If you value freedom and merit, then you better get right with what it's going to take to rid ourselves of multiculturalism.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @keypusher

    the social networks formed at top schools

    top schools are going the way of Top. Men.

  160. @ben tillman
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right. Doing construction work is a much more suitable occupation for an intellectual than is something like practicing law.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @SPMoore8

    Doing construction work is a much more suitable occupation for an intellectual than is something like practicing law.

    Depends on what one is constructing, and how far one’s title departs from one’s actual occupation. See:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9bastien_Le_Prestre_de_Vauban

  161. @panjoomby
    @keypusher

    Hispanics with a masters have a lower IQ (slightly) than Hispanics with a bachelors? should that 106.4 be a 108.4?

    Replies: @Sleep, @keypusher

    I rechecked the footnote — it’s as I stated. Of course there’s no meaningful difference between a 106.4 and a 106.7 IQ, but it’s still mildly surprising that the mean IQs of the two groups are the same.

    Possible explanations: Murray made a mistake (unlikely); very small sample size (I think unlikely; this was 15 years ago, but Hispanics weren’t exactly rare then); Hispanics specializing in undemanding masters degrees (most likely). Also, there’s not a lot to “explain” here: the IQ gap between white and black bachelor’s and master’s degree holders is pretty small — much smaller than the gap between master’s and Ph.D/JD degree holders.

    • Replies: @snorlax
    @keypusher

    Probably most people with master's degrees are schoolteachers, whom it has been established have a lower average IQ than other college grads.

  162. @TangoMan
    @Jack D

    Taylor is just proposing that we run admissions on a color blind basis.

    Taylor wants an Equal Opportunity Society. NAMs want an Equal Outcome Society. Square peg and round whole problem. These two worldviews are incompatible. If Taylor gets what he wants we're on the road to a blatant racial caste society where no blacks (excepting rounding errors) make it to the top of society and benefit from the social networks formed at top schools.

    If we stick with a multicultural society then quotas are a non-negotiable element. If you value freedom and merit, then you better get right with what it's going to take to rid ourselves of multiculturalism.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @keypusher

    Bingo. I think that’s why law professors tend to criticize Taylor’s co-author Richard Sander so bitterly — even though they rarely say it in plain words, they’ve worked out the consequences of his proposal, which include top law schools that are about as black-free as Tulane L.S. a hundred years ago.

    The ultimate, unassailable justification for affirmative action in higher ed in this country is that you would have virtually no blacks or Hispanics in elite schools without it. It would be nice if that justification could be uttered plainly, but there seems to be no chance of that.

  163. @Anon7
    As far as "shrieking black girls" are concerned, many African American girls receive lengthy training in "poetry slam" courses. Listen to Crystal Valentine explain Black Privilege:

    https://youtu.be/7rYL83kHQ8Y

    The Bronx native first began writing poetry as a fourth grader.

    Crystal is the current two-time Grand Slam Champion of NYU’s poetry slam team, is the 2015 NYC Youth Poet Laureate, has won first place atCUPSI in both 2013 and 2015, and was a member of the 2014 Urban Word youth slam team.

    http://blavity.com/this-poet-explains-exactly-what-black-privilege-is/

     

    These girls get the self-confidence and self-esteem that they need to shriek at college professors and college presidents from their training as young girls. When they perform in church, they are complimented by deacons and pastors. When they perform in school, they are praised by teachers and school principals.

    Replies: @TB2

    They get their confidence to shriek from the government and the establishment, the chappies with the guns and the chains. Blacks are just tools used by the Empire.

  164. @ben tillman
    @SPMoore8


    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn’t make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren’t interested in “intellectual” pursuits to a strong degree.
     
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You described the 180-IQ construction-worker guy as an intellectual, did you not?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @SPMoore8, @JSM

    Well, the original comment I was responding to had to do with bright kids who found themselves in over their heads in college; they were no longer stars, and they would get depressed and sort of “drop out.” However, there’s a broad range of outcomes between receiving the Nobel and dying of a heroin overdose in the gutter on 9th Avenue. So my first point was that there are a lot of pretty intelligent people (surely 1%) who stop striving to be best and yet go on to have pretty good, quiet, anonymous lives.

    Then that reminded me of the super-bright people I have known, and that reminded me of this particular fellow. My overall point is that high IQ itself is not an indication of accomplishment and that even some super bright people would prefer to just live in a cabin in the woods (now you’ve got me thinking of Ted Kaczynski: an intellectual? You decide).

    Then in my response to the Russian fellow I elaborated on the distinction between high IQ as such and “intellectual activity” as we tend to define it here (with a heavy STEM emphasis). And that linkage doesn’t really hold either. The way I would put it is that people with high IQ’s have a real problem in life with isolation; and overcoming that problem is, for many, way more important than following their intellectual interests, which tend to be somewhat OCD in nature.

    As for the intellectual activity of the person I have in mind, I’d say his intellectual interests, by the time I met him, were desultory and dilletantish. It was relatively easy for him to master things, it wasn’t a challenge, it didn’t make him happy, so he didn’t take it seriously. As for living in his mind, As for “living in his mind”, I think most highly intelligent people do that. Real life is like a window at the bottom of the screen that you bring up as needed, the rest of the time you’re just thinking about stuff. But I wouldn’t describe that as being particularly “intellectual.”

  165. @ben tillman
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right. Doing construction work is a much more suitable occupation for an intellectual than is something like practicing law.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @SPMoore8

    I think you are confusing “intellectual”, i.e., someone who spends their time in intellectual pursuits, with high IQ. I don’t think they are the same thing. I also don’t think “intellectual pursuits”, i.e., study, is the same as living in your mind.

    I can think of a lot of reasons why someone with a high IQ would not want to be a lawyer, or in any number of professions. The #1 reason is that professions take up a lot of your mental life, too much if you have other interests that are more important to you.

  166. @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    With all due respect, I doubt that your friend's IQ is really 180. The frequency of IQ >180 is approximately 1 in 3.5 million, so there are fewer than 100 such individuals in the entire US. Most IQ tests ceiling out well before 180 so it's not even possible to measure such an IQ using normal IQ tests. How do you know that this is his IQ?

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    You might be right that the person I have in mind (I can think of a few others I have known who were similar) does not have an IQ of 180 (although what I actually said was that it was “around” that point.) I only know that because it was told to me by people who knew him before I met him. I don’t see any reason to question it.

    My overall point is that there are a number of highly gifted, high IQ types who aren’t particularly accomplished. I think it has to do with the fact that the challenges of isolation and lack of social integration for such individuals are greater than any intellectual ambitions they might have.

    I agree with you that IQ testing above a certain point is questionable. For example, I have my doubts about my own children’s IQ’s (also reported to me). But I can only report what I have heard. I think there is an assumption that people with “High IQ’s” are all going to be accomplished in certain ways, and I think that is wrong.

  167. @ben tillman
    @SPMoore8


    By the same token, the smartest guy I know (IQ ~180) does construction (subcontracting) work, simply because it doesn’t make a lot of demands on his mind, which is where, as a gifted person, he prefers to spend his time.

    I realize we put a lot of emphasis on intelligence, IQ, and accomplishment here. But there are a lot of very smart people who prefer a modest, quiet, and relatively undemanding life. And a lot of them just aren’t interested in “intellectual” pursuits to a strong degree.
     
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. You described the 180-IQ construction-worker guy as an intellectual, did you not?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @SPMoore8, @JSM

    My dad had an IQ test when he went in the army in the 1940s. He told me it came back as 160.

    Was he lying? I don’t know for sure, but based on my son, I believe him now.

    My dad was self-employed, building residential houses on speculation. It was an intellectually challenging thing he enjoyed very much. He employed White guys who cared about the work they did, and paid them well. His homes, forty years later, having been well built, are still lovely and family-friendly.

    *** It’s flat evil that American society has replaced smart White guys who want to do good work with their hands and actually build something well, and in so doing be paid the nicely middle-class wages carpentry used to pay, with stupid people who do poor quality work but work cheap.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @JSM

    People forget that translating a high IQ into professional accomplishments and/or advanced degrees depends to a large extent on who you are and where you are from. If you are from poor, unschooled, non-urban background, and are expected to marry young, raise children, and support family you probably won't be a fellow at MIT. And you won't mind, either.

  168. @Former Darfur
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Engineering jobs are not all highly rigorous and many of them don't even involve actual designing. I worked for an electronics firm whose core competency was its leading edge use of DSP, and they had a group of really first rate engineers and programmers doing that-three or four of them-and seven or eight other engineers that did the support stuff like power supplies, the analog sections, ISO-9000 paperwork, component specification, etc. Most of that was stuff that any really determined hobbyist or field tech could have done with a little occasional direction from one good engineer-it was all cookbook stuff, strung together from app manuals and schematics of other companies' designs. For the guys they hired for those positions, most with degrees from bottom tier schools (we actually had one guy who had earned a degree from the old mail order Cook's Institute of Electronc Engineering, a correspondence school advertising in ham radio and audiophile magazines) they found the work fun and far more to their liking than what a Communications or Poli Sci degree would have prepared them for.

    Indeed, there are "sales engineering" and "support engineering" jobs that are actually just regular old sales or technician jobs but which the companies feel the need to hire people with degrees in engineering for. Maintaining MRI machines is a good example-it's a technician/mechanic job, but because of the cost of the machine and perceived liability they only hire degreed EEs or EET's (an EET is essentially a glorified technician with a little more math and some basic design tasks: they have heard of a Bode plot and poles and zeroes and margins of stability, but can't usually really apply it to any very complex network: they can tell you what the Smith Chart is and the basic ideas, etc.) for the job. No real design engineer is going to want a job like that.

    For those jobs, the smarter blacks are sometimes well suited. None of them is going to do what a Bob Widlar or a Barrie Gilbert is going to. I'm sure the situation in mechanical or aeronautical is similar: aeroelasticity and flutter are one thing, drawing up a shelf for a coffeemaker that attaches to bulkheads is another.

    Replies: @cthulhu

    I’m sure the situation in mechanical or aeronautical is similar: aeroelasticity and flutter are one thing, drawing up a shelf for a coffeemaker that attaches to bulkheads is another.

    There is definitely a hierarchy of capabilities in aerospace engineering: aeroelasticity, flutter, flight control and flight dynamics, aerodynamics, stress analysis…the major aerospace companies are always on the lookout for good people in these fields, and spend a lot of time developing promising young engineers in these areas. There just aren’t that many people who have expertise in these fields; I once estimated that there were certainly less than 1000 and probably less than 500 experienced flight control engineers in the entire U.S. I recently heard somebody who was considering moving into the flight control area decide not to, because “that group works too hard!”

    But good mechanical design engineers are sought after too, but they can be easier to find. There’s a subculture of designers that might work as contract labor for 12-18 months straight, with tons of overtime, then take off for six months and not work at all. For a new program, this is often exactly what the company is looking for: short term help to get all of the drawings done and released, then turn the mechanical design fully over to the salaried staff. I know people who love that lifestyle, although it would drive me crazy.

    In general though, nobody’s going to make fuck-you money from engineering unless you go into management, and maybe not even then.

  169. @JSM
    @ben tillman

    My dad had an IQ test when he went in the army in the 1940s. He told me it came back as 160.

    Was he lying? I don't know for sure, but based on my son, I believe him now.

    My dad was self-employed, building residential houses on speculation. It was an intellectually challenging thing he enjoyed very much. He employed White guys who cared about the work they did, and paid them well. His homes, forty years later, having been well built, are still lovely and family-friendly.

    *** It's flat evil that American society has replaced smart White guys who want to do good work with their hands and actually build something well, and in so doing be paid the nicely middle-class wages carpentry used to pay, with stupid people who do poor quality work but work cheap.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    People forget that translating a high IQ into professional accomplishments and/or advanced degrees depends to a large extent on who you are and where you are from. If you are from poor, unschooled, non-urban background, and are expected to marry young, raise children, and support family you probably won’t be a fellow at MIT. And you won’t mind, either.

  170. @Massimo Heitor
    @Mr. Anon


    Janet Napolitano had no professional background in academia and she is now President of the University of California system.
     
    Leaders typically don't have the technical skills of the people that they lead. The heads of pharmaceutical companies don't usually have any bio/pharma skills and that isn't their purpose. Leaders of universities work in the same fashion. They aren't hired for fancy STEM ability, they are hired as fancy leaders.

    Universities now have little to do with scholarship.
     
    This is unfounded and absurd. There is lots of genuinely awesome STEM skills, coursework, and research happening at many universities around the globe.

    There are very valid problems to complain about at universities, but disputing their relevance in STEM is not one of them.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “Leaders typically don’t have the technical skills of the people that they lead.”

    University Presidents aren’t “leaders”. They are administrators. The term “leader” is massively overused nowadays. And if what you say is true, then why was it the case in the past that University Presidents were mostly selected from among the professoriate.

    “The heads of pharmaceutical companies don’t usually have any bio/pharma skills and that isn’t their purpose. Leaders of universities work in the same fashion.”

    And the ignorance of people who run organizations about what it is those organizations do is a big contributor to the (currently playing out) downfall of our civilization.

    “Universities now have little to do with scholarship.”

    “This is unfounded and absurd. There is lots of genuinely awesome STEM skills, coursework, and research happening at many universities around the globe.”

    I was speaking about the U.S., not the world. Anyway, my comments were neither unfounded, nor absurd. College coursework is now far less rigorous than it was in the past. And a lot of the reasearch being done now is, frankly, crap. Not all, certainly, but more than used to be the case. I suspect this is true in the wider world as well. The profusion of open access journals in recent years is a sign of that. Ever more journals are needed to publish ever more papers in order to satisfy the increasing demand of hacks looking to burnish their resumes with shoddy work.

    By the way, what do you know about “STEM” (a stupid term, by the way)? Your knowledge of it would certainly have some bearing on how valuable your opinion is.

  171. “You make that sound like it’s a bad thing.”

    Yeah, I made the mistake of thinking everyone in the thread would have understood what I thought too obvious to mention.

    Whether or not it’s a bad thing to deny college to the vast majority of African Americans is completely irrelevant to the conversation–at least, to those who have a working grasp of reality. It’s untenable, politically. More germane to my point, Taylor doesn’t seem willing to step up to the reality of what he’s proposing.

    By the way: If I don’t say “it’s a bad thing”, then don’t assume that’s what I mean.

  172. @The most deplorable one
    @TangoMan

    It is interesting that fewer blacks scored above 700 (or 750) on the math portion of the test than scored above that similar cutoff mark for the verbal portion of the test.

    It that sense they seem more skewed towards verbal intelligence than math, perhaps like another group we know of.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Ashkenazi Jews are more skewed towards verbal IQ than visuospatial IQ. That’s not the same thing as more skewed towards verbal intelligence than math, as math ability is related to bot of those domains.

  173. @Big Bill
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Wow. The Bonniers are still "healing the world" after four generations in Sweden.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Most of the current adult Bonniers have one fourth or less Jewish ancestry.

  174. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I always assumed that the benefit of the Ivy League was the opportunity to make connections and participate in extracurriculars, not that you got a more rigorous education than elsewhere. And once you get in, it's almost impossible to flunk out. So it really shouldn't matter if blacks and Hispanics are held to lower standards, at least at the Ivy League level. The state school level is another story, and the attrition rate is significant there. As a graduate student, I taught an intro-level accounting course at a state school. It was considered a "weed-out" class with a failure rate close to 20% on average. I had eight black students. Four of them failed, and one of them got a B (no A's, and about 10-15% of all students got A's). Talking to another TA, he told me that was about how his black students did too.

    Replies: @BurplesonAFB, @Anonymous

    The near nonexistence of dumb and unmotivated students on Ivy campuses does make the education more rigorous. Status depends in part on how well one performs academically relative to one’s peers regardless of the fact that not many people fail out.

  175. @WGG
    Blacks across the country are scrambling to get attention because they know they are about to go back to the sad old days of "mattering" proportional to their numbers or slightly higher. At 13% of the population, they probably carry about 20% political weight under white administrations. Despite claiming a belief in democracy, they find that number unacceptably low.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Jefferson

    “Blacks across the country are scrambling to get attention because they know they are about to go back to the sad old days of “mattering” proportional to their numbers or slightly higher. At 13% of the population, they probably carry about 20% political weight under white administrations. Despite claiming a belief in democracy, they find that number unacceptably low.”

    When it comes to local politics, Blacks in the U.S punch above their weight. Hence why it is not uncommon for some cities to elect a Black mayor even if the percentage of Blacks living in that city is in the single digits.

  176. @Jack D
    @education realist

    You say that Taylor's solution would work only if the (black) kids who are current at 3rd tier schools like Missouri were "simply denied" access to college.

    You make that sound like it's a bad thing. Some with 400 SATs, black or white, is not college material. They are just not capable of doing true college level work, certainly not in any STEM field. You can put them in some "studies" major and push (s0me of) them thru but their degrees are essentially meaningless.

    Currently whites with those type of scores are in fact "denied" - Taylor is just proposing that we run admissions on a color blind basis. Why is it right to "simply deny" admission to whites while offering admission to blacks with the same qualifications?

    Wouldn't it be better to encourage people with 85-95 IQs (of any race) to learn some useful trade (HVAC repair, auto mechanics, tailoring, cooking, etc.) rather than churn out some more race and gender studies majors?

    Replies: @TangoMan, @Jefferson

    “Wouldn’t it be better to encourage people with 85-95 IQs (of any race) to learn some useful trade (HVAC repair, auto mechanics, tailoring, cooking, etc.) rather than churn out some more race and gender studies majors?”

    Trade school means working with your hands and standing up a lot or most of the time. Tyrone does not like working with his hands unless it involves a football, basketball, or bat in his hands. Tyrone wants a comfortable government job where he is sitting down most of the time. It’s either sports, physically comfortable government job, or thug life.

  177. I just looked up a former college roommate and I see that yes, as planned she is a doctor.

    She realized the wisdom of doing better at a historically black college than our school and transferred out after just one year.

    Good for her.

    Being in the right place has got to a huge part of success in college. We’d all be smart to keep that in mind and to pass that advice on to young people. It may be worthwhile to try a bit of a stretch but may be disasterous to go out of your league.

  178. @keypusher
    @panjoomby

    I rechecked the footnote -- it's as I stated. Of course there's no meaningful difference between a 106.4 and a 106.7 IQ, but it's still mildly surprising that the mean IQs of the two groups are the same.

    Possible explanations: Murray made a mistake (unlikely); very small sample size (I think unlikely; this was 15 years ago, but Hispanics weren't exactly rare then); Hispanics specializing in undemanding masters degrees (most likely). Also, there's not a lot to "explain" here: the IQ gap between white and black bachelor's and master's degree holders is pretty small -- much smaller than the gap between master's and Ph.D/JD degree holders.

    Replies: @snorlax

    Probably most people with master’s degrees are schoolteachers, whom it has been established have a lower average IQ than other college grads.

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