The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
A 1986 Scientific Study: "The 'Sissy Boy Syndrome' and the Development of Homosexuality''
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

The current transgender fad to put children on puberty blockers tends to be, in effect, an Iranian-style war of eradication upon males who would grow up to be gay men, and upon tomboys, many of whom would grow up to be straight women.

There was a 15-year tracking study done at UCLA a half century ago that found that little boys with gender atypical behavior tended to grow up to be gay or bi (but not always). Most got over their gender dysphoria.

Tomboys were more common and less likely to be grow up to be lesbian.

The findings of this now forgotten study raise serious questions about the current fad-driven Conventional Wisdom about puberty blockers and surgery.

From the New York Times back in 1986:

BOYHOOD EFFEMINANCY AND LATER HOMOSEXUALITY
By Jane E. Brody
Dec. 16, 1986

MOST young boys who persistently act like girls grow up to be homosexuals or bisexuals, a 15-year study of ”sissy boys” has shown. According to the findings, neither therapy designed to discourage the extremely feminine behavior nor ideal child rearing could guarantee that the boys would develop as heterosexuals, although parental discouragement of the boys’ girlish behavior tended to result in a more heterosexual orientation.

Three-fourths of 44 extremely feminine boys followed from early childhood to adolescence or young adulthood matured as homosexuals or bisexuals, as against only one bisexual among a comparison group of more typically masculine boys.

In many cases parents either overtly or subtly encouraged the feminine behavior. But when parents actively discouraged it and took other steps to enhance a male self-concept, homosexual tendencies of the feminine boys were lessened, although not necessarily reversed. Neither did professional counseling divert a tendency toward homosexuality, although it resulted in more conventional masculine behavior and enhanced the boys’ social and psychological adjustment and comfort with being male.

The study was conducted by Dr. Richard Green, a noted sex researcher who is professor of psychiatry at the University of California, Los Angeles and director of its Program in Psychiatry, Law and Human Sexuality. Details of the findings and implications are described in Dr. Green’s new book, ”The ‘Sissy Boy Syndrome’ and the Development of Homosexuality,” to be published in February by Yale University Press.

Although the study examined extreme cases of boyhood effeminacy, Dr. Green believes the findings may have relevance to lesser degrees of feminine behavior in boys. Such boys, who may, for example, be athletically inept or prefer music to cars and trucks, often have difficulty making friends with other boys and identifying with typically male activities. Dr. Green suggested that to help the boys think of themselves as male, parents might assist them in finding boy friends who are similarly unaggressive and that the fathers might share in activities the boys enjoy, such as going to the zoo or a concert, rather than insist on taking the boys to athletic events. Counseling to guide such parents and enhance the child’s masculine self-image may also be helpful, Dr. Green said.

The study did not examine the development of homosexuality in boys whose childhoods are typically masculine. About one-third of homosexual men recall such masculine boyhoods. Nor does the study suggest that all boys with the sissy-boy syndrome are destined for homosexuality. Indeed, one-fourth of the extremely feminine boys followed to maturity developed as heterosexuals….

”The pendulum is swinging back to biology,” Dr. Bell remarked. ”Apparently there is a very important physiological component that plays a big role in determining one’s sexual identity.”

As have other recent investigations, including the Kinsey study, the new research challenges long-held psychoanalytic beliefs that dominant, overprotecting mothers and ineffectual fathers are primary ”causes” of a son’s homosexuality.

Rather, the study suggests that some boys are born with an indifference to rough-and-tumble play and other typical boyhood interests and that this indifference alienates and isolates them from their male peers and often from their fathers as well. …

Dr. Green, who is now studying the development of tomboy girls, said the issue for girls who act like boys is very different. ”There are far fewer sissy boys than tomboy girls, but many more homosexual and transsexual men than women,” he said. …

Boys who participated in Dr. Green’s study were first examined in early childhood, when their parents became concerned about the boys’ persistent feminine behaviors and dislike of activities boys usually like. Many of the boys also repeatedly said they wanted to be girls. At the outset, Dr. Green thought he was examining the origins of male transsexuals -boys who grow up thinking they are girls trapped in male bodies and who may later seek sex-change surgery. However, only one of the feminine boys became a transsexual.

In an interview, Dr. Green pointed out that the boys he studied were notably different from other children. While many, if not most, young children – boys as well as girls – occasionally dress up in their mothers’ clothes, put on makeup or jewelry, play with dolls or assume the role of the opposite sex in fantasy play, the boys in Dr. Green’s study did so almost exclusively. They spurned typical boy games, rough-housing and sports and instead would play with Barbie dolls for hours, frequently don female clothing and nearly always assume a female role when playing house. Many followed their mothers around the house, mimicking the mothers’ activities.

… The culture may also play a role, Dr. Green said, though its effects are harder to measure. ”If the culture were less condemning of cross-gender behavior, social stigmatization would be less and perhaps these boys could socialize more with other boys,” he remarked. ”Certainly that is the case with tomboys, who are treated by society as normal girls.”

That was something I noticed watching the old 1933 and 1949 versions of “Little Women.” The main character Jo, author Louisa May Alcott’s representative, played by first Katharine Hepburn and then June Allyson, is portrayed as an extreme tomboy. For example, the old movies emphasize how Jo could throw like a boy. (June Allyson, who usually played Girl Next Door types, is given two scenes in which she throws overhand with skill and force.) But Jo is not oppressed by society. Being a tomboy is seen as a routine thing.

Ironically, in the new movie, Jo is portrayed as more gender-normal for a girl. I suspect that both writer-director Gerta Gerwig and her star Saoirse Ronan are girly girls who just aren’t into portraying tomboys. (I don’t recall Ronan being shown throwing anything as clearly as Hepburn and Allyson were shown. My guess is that Ronan, a slip of an Irish lass, throws like a girl.)

… Rather than attributing homosexuality to cultural, parental or genetic factors, Dr. Green sees an interaction of the three, as evidenced in particular by a pair of identical twins in his study. One boy was clearly feminine and the other twin typically masculine. The feminine boy was sick a lot and had little to do with his father, whereas the masculine twin had a more typical relationship with his father. As adults, both boys were bisexual, but the feminine twin was far more homosexual than his brother.

This article includes much else of interest.

 
• Tags: World War T 
Hide 305 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    One thing for sure, even non-Tom-Boy girls in Alcott’s era had to do a lot of work, especially if they grew up on a farm. All farm-girls or ranch-girls, even if not naturally tom-boy, have to take on some aspects of tomboyism.

    • Replies: @SFG
  2. Altai says:

    The thing with the adolescent girls who now make up the majority of cases of childhood and adolescent cases in ‘affirming’ treatment for supposed gender dysphoria is that we know their hyper anxieties fade rapidly outside the teenage years. It’s bizzare to me why so may girls who are clearly self-loathing or BPD are being put through this butchery.

    Previously they were goths or later emos and then stopped being goths or emos, but now you can’t stop the damage of puberty blockers, hormone treatments or SRS. It’s crazy and completely obvious.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Stan Adams
    , @SBaker
  3. Well, OT, but the very un-feminine, quite masculine man and great Iranian patriot, Qassim Soleimani, has been killed in what was reportedly a US airstrike.

    RIP Qassim. I admired you.

    I don’t feel right about this at all. I did not vote for Donald Trump so that he could order the murder of people I consider the good guys. Not to mention that this could now precipitate a serious Middle Eastern war, and all on the very day when stocks surpassed all known previous bubblicious indicators of relative strength.

    Everything is poised to fall. God help the innocent.

  4. Mr. XYZ says:

    Steve, have you ever heard of John Maclean? :

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRPIZtgcx0D7A0rXAC3x-1A

    He identifies as THE MAN, is also a grrrl, and yet isn’t actually a girl.

  5. Throwing overhand is really an American baseball thing; its unnatural and needs to be trained, since the strain on the shoulder is intense —hence why so many pitchers hurt their arms/ice them down to an extreme; its so much strain that now Tommy John surgery is fairly unremarkable, despite it being proof that these guys are literally ripping their arms apart.

    It’s doubly unnatural and stressful for girls’ arms, with their different anatomies and far weaker upper body strength. Softball’s underhand toss is a heaven-sent thing for girls who like taking the diamond, since its far more natural.

    So the fact that an Irish female actress couldn’t throw well enough to make it look good makes sense.

    I saw a documentary about the world wars that, when British soldiers were teaching Yanks how to throw grenades, the Brits demonstrate using a long cricket-style toss that wasn’t very accurate and was basically a lob toss.

    Then the Yank farm boys would laugh, grab the fake grenades, and fire perfect strikes, hitting the targets much more accurately. Years of baseball games as children had made them all experts.

    I don’t know if this translated to actual battlefield accuracy with the grenades, but I always liked the tale.

  6. Coemgen says:

    When discussing human homosexuality we need to differentiate between “tops” and “bottoms” (or pitchers and catchers, etc.). Anecdotally, there’s a big difference between a male “top” and a male “bottom.” “Bottoms” tend to feminine and “tops” tend to be masculine in behavior. There’s probably a parallel with female homosexuality too but I’ve never walked in on two girls in flagrante delicto.

    Aside and ironically, MF pairing works best with the M on the bottom and the F on top. Horse riding in the modern age is an almost completely girl thing.

  7. SFG says:
    @Anonymous

    Right, but farm work wouldn’t be tomboyish to them; it would just be helping around the house. Sure a lot of these farm women could probably win an armwrestle against lots of modern men, but they weren’t comparing themselves to modern men; they were comparing themselves to their even burlier male counterparts.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  8. B36 says:

    Just think of puberty blockers and mutilating surgery as forms of human sacrifice meant to propitiate the Trans Gods.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  9. @Intelligent Dasein

    Agree.

    This is a high potential trigger for regional war with some potential to spiral into WW3.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Forbes
  10. SFG says:
    @Coemgen

    Lesbians have ‘butch’ and ‘femme’.

  11. anon[338] • Disclaimer says:
    @Coemgen

    Yes, many girls really like a pulsating steed between their legs. It would be an interesting study to see if girls who are riders grow up to be better adjusted sexually.

  12. You’re doing God’s work, Steve.

    Unfortunately, the Tranocracy is doing the Devil’s, so they won’t take any interest in this.

    But then, I guess that’s the real problem. We still think facts and logic will work.

  13. Rapparee says:
    @R.G. Camara

    I saw a documentary about the world wars that, when British soldiers were teaching Yanks how to throw grenades, the Brits demonstrate using a long cricket-style toss that wasn’t very accurate and was basically a lob toss.

    Then the Yank farm boys would laugh, grab the fake grenades, and fire perfect strikes, hitting the targets much more accurately. Years of baseball games as children had made them all experts.

    P.J. O’Rourke, if memory serves, observed the same thing about angry trash-throwing Palestinians- they used “the girly overhand throw of nations that mostly play soccer“, which of course missed by forty yards.

    • Replies: @Lugash
    , @Ian Smith
    , @kihowi
  14. @SFG

    One of scariest and weirdest stats out there is how much “grip strength” has declined in American men in the last 30-50 years.

    First, its scary because it starkly demonstrates how much weaker men physically men are today, which means a lot if disaster were to hit, and explains how men (and women) can believe that women are the physical equals of men—because men aren’t being used to their full physical potential, and don’t test themselves to keep up their masculinity.

    Second, its weird because who would’ve thought to measure and quantify it so long ago??? And is it valid? It has the whiff of validity about it, but it could be a huge junk science study.

    I’ve had times when, as part of a flirtation technique, I’ll challenge a girl to an arm wrestling contest. The younger the woman (i.e. the later in the 20th century they were born), the more confident she always was that she can win/hold her own. Then I laughingly blast their hand down with no effort and they get a soft, feminine, confused look in their eyes—-“but wait feminists and movies/TV/pop music told me I was just as strong as you oh my that was very hot how you just blew me out of the water lets have another drink”.

    And I’m not even that strong/masculine a guy.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Redneck farmer
    , @res
    , @SBaker
  15. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Explain how he was “the good guy” as the Special Forces head of an Islamic Republic. Relative to Arabs? Relative to Israelis Relative to whom?

    • Replies: @Anon
  16. Gerta Gerwig

    Greta! Greta!

    Which reminds me– it’s time to wish that other Greta a happy birthday. It’s already the 3rd in Sweden.

    How soon after one’s 18th birthday does Sweden send out the draft notices? How much CO2 does burning one release?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-airlines-breakingviews/breakingviews-greta-thunberg-will-clog-eu-budget-airline-engines-idUSKBN1Z10MW

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
  17. “watching the old 1933 and 1949 versions of “Little Women.” The main character Jo, author Louisa May Alcott’s representative, played by first Katharine Hepburn and then June Allyson, is portrayed as an extreme tomboy. For example, the old movies emphasize how Jo could throw like a boy”

    Perhaps an unconscious desire to repeat Little Women concept in US pop culture was the ‘80’s NBC hit “the facts of life”. The first season was a near disaster, as it didn’t have much direction and too many girls to focus on. Starting in season 2, with the addition of Tomboy named Joanna Marie Polnachek, nicknamed Jo, by the way, the series got better and tended to focus on the ups and downs of the four girls who shared their lives together.

    Though she was a tomboy, Jo was clearly not a lesbian, and the producers of the era went to great lengths to make that point. A super feminist ERA type? You bet. Someone who rode and worked on motorcycles, and could throw a baseball? Absolutely. But one who clearly dated guys.

    Looking back, the character being named Jo, as well as there being 4 girls, clearly was cribbing in some important ways from Little Women.

  18. Cortes says:

    “a slip of an Irish lass.”

    “Well fry me for an O’yster” said Bertha McCool.

    What, seriously, explains the growing tendency of soccer players to run like girls?

  19. Lugash says:
    @Rapparee

    Fuck PJ O’Rourke. As if he would ever have the balls throw stones at the IDF. And his people were ruled by the English for years.

    Maybe America’s murder of Q.S. will get us* tossed out of Iraq. Not that we’ll* leave voluntarily, but one can hope.

    *I use first person pronouns for simplicity.

  20. @anon

    It would be an interesting study to see if girls who are riders grow up to be better adjusted sexually.

    LMFAO.

    Every guy knows that horse chicks are absolutely crazy.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  21. Jack D says:

    OT: This is very big. Trump put a hit on Iranian Gen. Soleimani at Baghdad Airport today. The Iranians sent their militia the other day to attack the American embassy, figuring that they would try for another Benghazi or take American hostages. Trump told them in no uncertain terms that he would not tolerate Iranian attacks on US territory (and embassies are US territory) and this was his way of sending a message to the Iranians that he was not f*cking around. This is not like knocking off some militia leader. Soleimani was the right hand man of Khamenei and the key leader of Iran’s covert strategy. Soleimani may have felt that he was safe in Baghdad which nowadays is practically run by Iran (we spent $1 Trillion so that Iran could take power in Iraq ) but I guess he wasn’t. The Iranians are going to look for ways to retaliate but this is going to be harder for them to do because their mastermind is dead.

  22. Ian Smith says:
    @Rapparee

    Ah, P J O’Rourke. I was a fan back in the day, but his joining the Never Trump crowd and voting for Hilary Clinton made me lose all respect for him.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  23. @Coemgen

    Aside and ironically, MF pairing works best with the M on the bottom and the F on top. Horse riding in the modern age is an almost completely girl thing.

    Except that most modern women really, really try to avoid being on top. It’s icky/weird/uncomfortable/too much work/perverted/unlady-like/etc.

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
  24. @R.G. Camara

    Not so. Ever since 1890’s, most of MLB P’s have thrown overhand. For at least three quarters of a century it simply wasn’t a thing to need arm surgery. And pitchers pitched more innings, threw more complete games ( and thus threw more pitches) then they do today. One wonders if there’s a connection to the windup, which old time MLB pitchers tended to do, and the higher rates of needing shoulder, arm, elbow surgery. Most modern pitchers either use a shorter briefer windup, or simply no windup at all. So perhaps this is a key factor as to the rise in needing surgery. The windup may have lessened the strain upon the pitchers arm and thus fewer pitchers developed arm troubles in nearly the same rate as they do today.

  25. Rapparee says:

    Nor does the study suggest that all boys with the sissy-boy syndrome are destined for homosexuality. Indeed, one-fourth of the extremely feminine boys followed to maturity developed as heterosexuals.

    At one point in my career I found myself talking regularly to a lot of nurses; given how traditionally feminine a profession it is, I was a little surprised at just how few male nurses seemed to be homosexual. There were definitely some, but it was a much lower percentage than I had initially expected. (Our conversations often veered into personal matters where they would mention wives or children, so I’m not just basing this on my own unreliable gaydar).

    I am close with one man who tends to set off strangers’ gaydar on first impression- he has a flamboyantly theatrical manner, a slightly fey and effeminate-sounding voice, and a widely-acknowledged knack for interior decorating and art. He’s also been married to the mother of his children for nearly four decades, is a Republican Catholic, and can hold his own in a fight. Moreover, he’s a passionate golfer- as are all three of his kids, owing to his influence. Men like him- and there are plenty of them- are very fortunate to have grown up before Pride Parades and puberty blockers were Things.

  26. Interesting 1986 article. It has a refreshing directness and focus on the facts, without the contemporary NYT’s obligatory larding of political commentary and circuitous prose.

    But the study subjects seem to have all been boys whose parents were so concerned about their effeminecy that they sought out psychiatric counseling. That hardly seems like a representative sample of boys generally, or even generally effeminate boys. But it still shows that at least a certain subset of homosexuality starts early and manifests pretty obviously.

    Incidentally, have the SJWs worked out their Party Line on the origins of Gay and Trans status? Do they now claim they are biologically determined, and thus an exception to their contrary ideology that all M/F gender distinctions are just “socially imposed.”

  27. @Lugash

    I dislike O’Rourke for he, like most of the Buckley-approved “conservatives” of his time, was nothing more than a House Negro for the Left. He gave commentary for Bill Maher, FFS.

  28. Rosie says:
    @Altai

    Previously they were goths or later emos and then stopped being goths or emos, but now you can’t stop the damage of puberty blockers, hormone treatments or SRS. It’s crazy and completely obvious.

    It’s also extremely dysgenic.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21331499

    This is a serious problem for the dissident right. They value both intelligence and gender conformity, but the two things are inversely correlated.

  29. It is practically a cliche that at least one girl from elementary school who is “one of the boys” will enter middle school with new parts and will decide she likes makeup and such.

  30. MBlanc46 says:
    @R.G. Camara

    R. G., have you ever watched a cricket match? Bowling is, since the middle of the nineteenth century, at least, overarm, but, as it generally involves the entire body, especially in its speedier varieties, it’s perhaps more than merely throwing. But when a fielder fires one into the wicket-keeper, it’s an overarm throw, unless he’s very close.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @R.G. Camara
  31. AKAHorace says:
    @Lugash

    Fuck PJ O’Rourke. As if he would ever have the balls throw stones at the IDF. And his people were ruled by the English for years.

    But if he did throw stones would it be overhand or underhand ?

  32. Coemgen says:
    @anon

    HorseTV

    However the girls end up, it’s really pleasing to watch them ride.

  33. @R.G. Camara

    I was under the impression that overhand throwing ability was one of the anatomical developments that distinguished H.sapiens. I might be wrong though. But if true, it would suggest that overhand throws are cross-cultural and don’t require so much training.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    , @ben tillman
  34. @MBlanc46

    R. G., have you ever watched a cricket match?

    MB, have you ever seen a cricket scoreboard? The bowlers’ ERAs must be absolutely dreadful!

    No wonder they called on the Yank bullpen in those two great International Test Matches.

  35. Being a tomboy is seen as a routine thing.

    I would have thought that tomboys were usually prepubertal, and then became more feminine as the sex organs developed.

    In some of the most widely-read children’s books of all time, the Famous Five series by Enid Blyton, one the the main characters is a girl named Georgina who insists on being called George, dresses like a boy, and is frequently mistaken for a boy.

    The books were written in the first decades post World War II and I never, ever remember any adult ever commenting on the implications of the ambiguous gender of this child.

    The fifth member of the Famous Five is the dog,

  36. vinny says:
    @Jack D

    The Iranians are going to look for ways to retaliate but this is going to be harder for them to do because their mastermind is dead.

    How many Masterminds has the US killed in the Middle East in the past 20 years? How has that worked out?

    • Agree: Prester John
  37. J.Ross says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    If Iran wanted to attack us, they’d have only to walk across the completely undefended border that Trump forgot about. I don’t see how everything that’s happening does not get much worse.

  38. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara

    I don’t know if that’s true. The Iraqi who threw his shoes at Bush threw overhand. When you see footage of boys and men in the wild throwing stones and chucking spears and the like, they all throw overhand.

    • Replies: @M_Young
  39. @MBlanc46

    No, I have not. I am merely recounting what was said in the documentary, as I pointed out.

    IIRC, however, cricket throws are allowed to bounce on the ground, or at least close to the ground, and many bowlers do just that. With grenades, bouncing or hitting the ground would be verboten; they could explode or just stop momentum, endangering the thrower. Thus a cricket player would be more inclined to lob it than give it a good hard cricket throw.

    A baseball thrower, however, would be much more inclined to throw it the way he’s always always thrown, since in baseball throws are designed to be straight and not hit the ground.

    Please correct if wrong. Like I said, I’m just repeating the story from a documentary, not speaking from firsthand knowledge.

  40. @Jonathan Mason

    In the old Encyclopedia Brown stories, Encyclopedia’s partner is Sally, a pretty tomboy who’s famous feat is punching out the town bully Bugs Meaney.

    But everyone’s about 12 years old at the time, and its implied that not only does every male (including Meaney) not hit women as a rule, but also that Meaney (and Encyclopedia) have an attraction to the emerging beauty Sally, so Meaney doesn’t hit her back for that reason as well.

    Of course, even I, reading the books decades after they’d been published, got that. Not a single 10 -12 year old girl at my age could outfight any boy, nor wanted to, so it was a humorous aside/implied crush angle, not something serious.

    • Replies: @gcochran
  41. anon[335] • Disclaimer says:

    No sane society would even consider givng gender development blocking drugs to teenagers to manipulate their future gender. It is an outrage that deserves to be forcibly stopped, not rebutted.
    It is a form of castration or mutilation of children who ARE NOT old enough to decide for themselves.

    • Agree: SBaker
    • Replies: @SBaker
  42. Sean R says:

    Penelope Trunk has an interesting theory about tomboys, Aspergers, and gender dysphoria. She proposes that if a woman thinks she’s transgender she should be tested for Aspergers.

    https://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2020/01/02/why-the-final-blow-to-feminism-will-be-autism/

    “Feminism celebrates women who choose paths typical to men over women who choose paths typical to women. The problem with this approach is that in the last ten years researchers have found that women who think like men are not neurotypical women; these women have Aspergers.

    Normal girls are not great at math. We have known since the 1980s that boys who have very strong math skills usually have Aspergers. Today we know that very strong math skills are also a predictor of Aspergers in girls.

    People are scared to say to girls, You’re good at math, come get tested for Aspergers. We know girls with Aspergers are good at activities boys prefer. So all girls who are good at boy activities should be tested. A huge percentage of those girls will have Aspergers.

    Gender dysphoria in girls is related to Aspergers. The transgender/non-binary/genderqueer population has a huge overlap with the Asperger population, especially those sex assigned female. And people born female are twice as likely to be referred to gender-identity clinics. This overlap is particularly problematic because reasoning skills required to sort through gender identity are deficient or delayed in people with Aspergers.

    But people are scared to say, If you think you’re transgender get tested for Aspergers. It’s not PC. And people don’t want to suggest that someone with gender dysphoria might have an extreme male brain from Aspergers rather than a gender identity issue.”

  43. Anon[862] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    The Iranians don’t need to “mastermind” attacks on the US embassy when Iraqi civilians in the area are preyed upon by the Ugandan contractors who work the security there.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  44. A useful project would be a guide for parents whose children are drifting into transgender-as-goth. How to deal with it and how to keep them from mutilating themselves.

    Anybody who has successfully talked their kid out of becoming a tranny is probably keeping their mouth shut about it for obvious reasons.

    But it has to have happened at least a few times. This is a big country. Somebody knows how to do it.

  45. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I’m sure Iran has someone to step in immediately and pick commensurate targets appropriately. I just hope this doesn’t completely muck up the next several years.

  46. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve Sailer:

    “There was a 15-year tracking study done at UCLA a half century ago that found that little boys with gender atypical behavior tended to grow up to be gay or bi (but not always). Most got over their gender dysphoria”

    This is true. One of the interesting things they have found is that adult men who have a bisexual pattern of arousal and are bisexually active identify as either gay or straight depending on their romantic inclinations toward one gender or another, and that this romantic inclination correlates very strongly with their gender identity: masculine bisexual men usually identify as straight, while feminine bisexual men tend to identify as gay, with only a few identifying as bisexual. They are all sexually aroused by both men and women, but they consider the gender they want to have relationships with to be more decisive in their sexual identy than their bisexual physical arousal.

    And why is there such obsession with boys being masculine? How about just letting the child act and be in whatever way makes them happy? And as you have observed, there is no such prejudice against girls who are tomboys. This is cruel and unfair to boys, since girls are given freedom to behave like any gender they want, but boys have to conform to this closed box of “masculinity”, which apparently involves being physically violent and domineering. Not only is it unfair to boys, but are being aggressive and dominant even the values we want to uphold as a Society? Haven’t we had enough wars and murders already?

    • Replies: @Rapparee
  47. Anon[337] • Disclaimer says:

    As I recall, Professor Michael Bailey of Northwestern in The Man Who Would be Queen discussed the sissy boy side of this, and he noted that little boys (even toddlers) who are sissy and want to wear mom’s shoes and wear dresses sometimes grow up to be trans, sometimes grow out of it, and sometimes grow up to be gay men.

    (Remember, Bruce Jenner-style androgynes do not want to wear dresses as kids and construct elaborate lies about always thinking they were the wrong sex, lies that fall apart when their family and childhood friends are interviewed by psychologists.)

    The most interesting thing about the sissy boys who grow up to be gay is that if the parents “affirm” the kids, they tend to come out as femme gays, but if the parents don’t let them wear dresses to school (they have a “sissy fit” and scream) then they grow up to be masculine gay men. This is important, because masculine gay men tend to be happy and well-adjusted and form long-term relationships, while femmes are lonely and depressed and cannot attract the masculine gay partners that they crave, falling into weird, dysfunctional relationships with other loser femmes.

    So the somewhat limited version of “conversion therapy” involved in just saying No to dresses and makeup can have a long-term positive effect on the kid’s life. He’ll be gay, but he’ll be happy.

    Free PDF of the book from the author’s website:

    http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/TMWWBQ.pdf

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  48. @Coemgen

    I don’t want to scandalize you too much, but if you’re really interested in examining female homosexual behavior, there are several websites where you can do research for free. Of course, you have to sift through lots of videos featuring simple play-acting designed to titillate men. However, there are videos that seem to show authentic lesbians doing things that are not designed simply for male viewership.

    One interesting point is that there seem to be almost no homemade amateur lesbian videos. This must say something in itself–probably relates to Steve’s “lesbian bed death”. It also suggests that there is a selection bias built in to even the videos that apparently feature authentic lesbians. That said, I don’t notice any particular trends except maybe decreased physicality and physical aggression.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
  49. Anon[337] • Disclaimer says:

    This is a serious problem for the dissident right. They value both intelligence and gender conformity, but the two things are inversely correlated.

    Huh? Citation for that? Is this Steve’s anecdotal “I went to biz school with a smart guy who went tranny, and I hear of a lot of tranny Googlers” thing, so all androgynes are geniuses and all normal guys are retards, Q.E.D.?”

  50. songbird says:

    I wonder what would happen if you caught these “sissy boys” early and gave them testosterone.

    Probably too late to make a difference? I suppose someone must have tried it?

  51. although parental discouragement of the boys’ girlish behavior tended to result in a more heterosexual orientation.

    Something tells me this is more those boys learning that their families were NOT going to be ok with them being gay, intentionally changing their mannerisms (I did it and it was basically psychological torture that’s led to long-term insecurities and issues, so do not recommend!) and hiding it from them.

  52. @Rosie

    Saving this for when someone tries to tell me again that gay men have never contributed anything to civilization and we would be better off without them.

  53. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jack D

    OT: This is very big. Trump put a hit on Iranian Gen. Soleimani at Baghdad Airport today.

    It’s very big for you and your tribe. It isn’t for me and my tribe. The rest of us (who voted for Trump) voted back in 2016 for not giving a damn what all you rug-merchants got up to in rug-merchant-land.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @nebulafox
  54. What became of my favorite New York Mayoral candidate, Luke Sissyfag?

    • Thanks: sb
    • Replies: @CJ
  55. @R.G. Camara

    How were(are) spears thrown by pre-Doubleday hunter-gatherers?

  56. syonredux says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    In some of the most widely-read children’s books of all time, the Famous Five series by Enid Blyton, one the the main characters is a girl named Georgina who insists on being called George, dresses like a boy, and is frequently mistaken for a boy.

    The books were written in the first decades post World War II and I never, ever remember any adult ever commenting on the implications of the ambiguous gender of this child.

    Back in the 1930s, Nancy Drew had two main female pals, tomboyish George and girly girl Bess. Everybody thought that that was perfectly normal.

  57. Anon[185] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    How’s it going to make the Mideast any more warlike than it already has been for the last 3K years? Honestly, people will get over it pretty quickly and the guy will be replaced in a heartbeat.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  58. @Anon

    Ugandan security? Is that a thing?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  59. Jack D says:
    @Mr. Anon

    So America should just turn the other cheek when the Iranians slap us around? Maybe you can get Obama to run again – that was his policy.

  60. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    it simply wasn’t a thing to need arm surgery

    Smoky Joe Wood, Dizzy Dean, Herb Score, Dean Chance, Sam McDowell, Sandy Koufax, etc.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  61. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Oh yes. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-uganda-mercenaries/

    Isn’t it better for these guys to risk their asses for $ than for Americans to die?

    • Replies: @Polynikes
  62. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    Well! This really is worthy of a news headline, unlike most of what you see these days. And in an Iranian protectorate in all but name, no less. Got to give it to The Donald, he can still show a pair every now and again.

    > Soleimani was the right hand man of Khamenei and the key leader of Iran’s covert strategy.

    Magnificent bastard. Emphasis on bastard.

    >The Iranians are going to look for ways to retaliate but this is going to be harder for them to do because their mastermind is dead.

    Not to mention that Quds is going to have to spend the next couple of months defending their turf in the cut-throat game of Iranian politics. This could work out well for us if the guy who replaces Soleimani isn’t as formidable.

    I expect the Iranians are going to want to mess up Trump’s re-election chances, but that’s a tricky balance: you’ve got to get him to overreact enough to make the voters think he’s sold out to the neocons, but not do anything serious and public enough for the public to swing over to anything short of IRANIAN FREEDOM.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  63. Thomas says:
    @Jack D

    I don’t know if anybody in the American “national security community” is capable of thinking this way anymore, but if I had just knocked off the mastermind of regional strategy of an enemy country, that would be an opening move I’d take advantage of to go do something more to them afterwards.

  64. nebulafox says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Look, I think that long-term, we’re going to need a more normal relationship with Iran if we really want to stop hyper-focusing on that part of the world with money we don’t have anymore, on the behalf of foreign powers. But we shouldn’t pretend the mullahs wish us anything good, or that regime is in any way sympathetic. Let’s not forget they’ve tried to knock off foreign ambassadors on the streets of DC, Pinochet-style. Count my sympathy limited.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  65. @J.Ross

    We may soon find out a lot more about any Stateside Iranian sleeper cells than we’d like to know.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  66. @Intelligent Dasein

    Even wikipedia talks of assassination.

    On the even less bright side: have you noticed how no Persian Airliners have been shot down by US forces in decades?

  67. Parisian says:

    I’m about to read the rest of the comments, and somebody may say something, but the tomboy/Lesbian is pretty fantastic in Katharine Hepburn’s Jo, because Hepburn was a total Lesbian. Scotty Bowers, who recently died in his late 90s, was a pimp to the stars out of a Hollywood gas station and wrote a book about it I read it about a year ago. Knew George Cukor, which was the same clique as Hepburn. The Spencer Tracy thing was no romance at all, and he was himself homosexual. Bowers ordered up scores of girls for Hepburn, and she was as promiscuous as male homosexuals. Well-known to be a very vicious and selfish bitch as well.

    Appreciate that you would actually be able to stand yet another ‘Little Women’. The very though of it is horrible to me, and I think there was one in the mid-90s. What do the millennials want with it? Won’t it just scream ‘okay boomer’?

  68. Rapparee says:
    @Anonymous

    And why is there such obsession with boys being masculine?

    So they don’t get picked on. Kids are jerks. Learning to man up a little makes it easier to keep the jerks at bay.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Ozymandias
  69. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    Emphasis on bastard.

    There are hundreds if not thousands of American widows and orphans and bereaved parents who should sleep better tonight knowing that the man who was responsible for the death of their loved one (always a young man in the prime of his life) has received a measure of justice. Not to mention thousands who survived but missing legs, arms, pieces of their head, etc. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. Soleimani, among his many other deeds, masterminded supplying the Iraqi Shiite insurgent forces with Iranian made explosively formed projectiles which are effective against American armor.

  70. @Jack D

    US occupation forces in Middle East are legitimate military targets, and aggressive US behavior ensures that more of them will die now. Colonial powers always lose in the long run, but first, a lot of “young men” are going to die.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Jack D
  71. vinny says:
    @Jack D

    There are hundreds if not thousands of American widows and orphans and bereaved parents who should sleep better tonight knowing that the man who was responsible for the death of their loved one (always a young man in the prime of his life) has received a measure of justice.

    George W Bush is dead?

  72. Jack D says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    If you consider Solemaini to be a “good guy” then you must hate America more than any Leftist. I don’t know why you wish him well – he sure as hell did not wish you well.

    • Replies: @istevefan
  73. CJ says:
    @John Derbyshire

    What became of Luke Sissyfag? Nothing good. He now suffers from extreme Trump Derangement Syndrome. You can read as much as you can stand about him here:

    Luke Montgomery: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

  74. istevefan says:
    @J.Ross

    If Iran wanted to attack us, they’d have only to walk across the completely undefended border that Trump forgot about. I don’t see how everything that’s happening does not get much worse.

    A lot of guys are pointing out that our sovereignty was violated because of the attack on our embassy in Iraq. But those guys don’t seem to be concerned that our actual territorial sovereignty is being violated daily.

    • Agree: Liza, Achmed E. Newman
  75. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Relative to Syrian Christians maybe?

  76. istevefan says:
    @Jack D

    I would not want Solemaini nor any of his co-ethnics or co-coreligionists to immigrate to America or Europe. If our worlds never interacted, that would be fine with me.

    But that said, I at least give him credit for fighting ISIS instead of giving them medical and material aid. He was on the side that tried to protect the Christians of Syria.

  77. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    You’re right that it’s not going to make the Iranian mullahs hate us more than they hate us already, which is a lot. But Soleimani was a very effective guy and not someone who will be easily replaced. This is bigger than killing Bin Laden, bigger than the ISIS guy. He was the #2 guy in Iran, a nation of 80 million.

    You may thing “no Iranian ever called me n*gger” but Iran regards itself as the legitimate regional power in the Persian Gulf if not the entire Middle East (Gen. S. was the head of the Quds Brigade – Quds means Jerusalem which may give you a hint of how far Iranian ambitions extend (and to Mecca too) and is interested in pushing the US out of that region by inflicting as much pain as it can while at the same time maintaining deniability because it knows it is no match for the US in open warfare. Soleimani was THE master of this double game and (thought he) knew just how far he could tweak the dragon’s tail without getting burned. Men like him, who play with fire day after day for 20 years, are not easily found. Maybe you think that’s a good idea for the US to depart the region but you would be wrong about that because putting the control of the Persian Gulf oil supply (and therefore its price even if we don’t buy a single barrel from that region) in the hand of Iran is not a good idea.

  78. @Chrisnonymous

    I was under the impression that overhand throwing ability was one of the anatomical developments that distinguished H.sapiens

    “The throwing hypothesis” posits that when humans became bipedal, our shoulder anatomy evolved to allow a powerful throwing motion. That, in turn, led to a sea change in behavior as cooperating groups of stone-throwing humans could now “kill at a distance.”

    Here’s a fairly pithy explanation of the theory at about the 6:00 mark.

  79. @Jonathan Mason

    “The fifth member of the Famous Five is the dog,”

    Was he a top dog or bottom dog?

  80. Elli says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Since I never remember hearing about the man before today, and the media is not portraying him as a good guy, please tell why you consider him as such.

  81. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    Jack is right, cutting off the irreplaceable head is why Israel doesn’t have to worry about Hamas launching rock — oh, wait a minute …

  82. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    Whoa, W got hit? When did that happen?

  83. nebulafox says:
    @J.Ross

    The Iranian regime is not as bent on martyrdom as the Israelis and Saudis would like the US public to believe.

  84. @Steve Sailer

    Uh, yes, that’s about half a dozen over three quarters of a century. Wood, Dean, and Score cover the 1890-1960 era, which is the era I was referring to. The rest come during the ’60’s.

    As we know that for the most part, MLB pitchers threw more complete games, more pitches, and more innings than they do today, they also had somewhat longer average careers as well. So perhaps the windup tended to help alleviate some of the stress and strain taken on their pitching arms. Sometimes the answers are the most obvious ones. If pitchers used to pitch more often, and more innnings for decades without, on the whole, a major problem on their arms, then its simply ridiculous to state that it can no longer be done (when throughout most of MLB history, it consistently was being done).

    Herb Score is a different case entirely. He was also hit in the face by a batted ball, I believe, by NY Gil MacDougald, and was never the same again.

    If you want to play that game, then for accuracy, it must be noted that there’s no evidence that HOFers Cy Young, Eddie Plank, Chief Bender, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Carl Hubbell, Lefty Grove, Bob Feller, Warren Spahn, Steve Carlton, etc. ever developed serious arm troubles during their careers. Especially as most of them pitched for 10+ seasons and few tended to miss entire seasons due to arm injuries. As noted economic scholar Thomas Sowell observed “You simply can’t say that something can’t be done when throughout history it was being done, and quite consistently at that.”

    The paradox is that even though MLB played a 154 game season up thru 1961, P’s tended to make more starts, and pitch more innings than they do today during a 162 game season. And yet, fewer of them tended to develop arm troubles during their careers when compared to today’s MLB P’s.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  85. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    I am glad that he is gone and won’t be a threat to the United States anymore. What more do you want from me, elation? His death doesn’t bring back the dead, and seeking closure through things you can’t ultimately control is a path to self-destruction. I know that one.

    In war, people die. People are horribly mutilated. People’s hearts are burned with scars that will never heal. It’s a never-changing fact of human existence: one need only consult the some of oldest works of human literature to see that. And sometimes, no matter how much people don’t want to admit it, there is no alternative to war.

    But I don’t think war is something you should dive into casually. And I think we would be wiser about when to embrace war if our rulers were made to feel its effects a bit more deeply.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @anonymous1963
  86. @Intelligent Dasein

    Chauncey Gardiner, coming through yet again. That’s certainly a take.

  87. @nebulafox

    The purpose of the strike was exactly that. The rulers on the other end of it felt the effects of their actions as deeply as possible.

    There is a nonzero chance that this action will solidify/clarify Trump’s support to the extent that in the medium term we can get our nose out of a lot of business it shouldn’t have been in in the first place. That’s never happening with weak Trump.

    • Agree: nebulafox
  88. nebulafox says:
    @Sean R

    Girls with ASD typically have social intuition on the level of an average boy, i.e, lower than a girl’s, but not red-flag raising. That means they typically struggle with other girls, but they can fly under the radar as tomboys or loners. The boys have social intuition well beneath the level of an average boy. That means they are likely to be completely isolated and stand out more.

    Like most forms of exotic mental chemistry, I suspect the demographic leans predominantly male anyway, and part of me believes that this is all a way for HR lady/educrat culture to label male personalities uncongenial to them as pathologies, but still, there you go.

  89. @Jack D

    Also took out Muhandis:

    If you want to get out, win first.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Mr. Anon
  90. @songbird

    How about neither you nor the transgender therapy doctors give hormones to children?

    • Replies: @songbird
  91. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    If you look at career innings pitched, the top are the deadball pitchers who didn’t have to throw very hard until man got into scoring position and the last third of the 20th Century pitchers, like Ryan, Sutton, Carlton, Niekro, both Perrys, Maddux, Blyleven, Seaver, and Tommy John:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/IP_career.shtml

    My guess is that the shift to the 5 man rotation in the 1970s, the invention of Tommy John surgery, and other medical innovations made for a golden age of durable hurlers.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  92. JimDandy says:

    I enjoyed your review of Little Women. And I enjoyed Little Women. I felt like the decision to understate the extreme tomboy characteristics of the lead was a wise choice in today’s climate of laughably dominant feminist heroines in contemporary films. It kind of circumvented current identity politics. What stuck me as most powerful (yet subtle) about the depiction of Jo’s life choices was the emotional price she paid for taking the path she did. She wasn’t absolutely sure about her choices, and she actually changed her mind, too late, and suffered for it, but triumphed in the end. I could live with the kind of feminism depicted in the current incarnation of Little Women.

  93. sb says:
    @R.G. Camara

    Well I’ve played cricket and watched some baseball and your comment makes no sense to me
    I should perhaps add that I’m from Australia which I think is maybe the only place where individuals play both sports

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  94. @Altai

    The media-pharmacological complex is a gnarly beast indeed.

  95. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Michael Bailey is a hack. He is the guy who said that bisexual men didn’t exist, and then latter re-did his own study with more stringent criteria and proved himself wrong that, in fact, a significant number of men who claim to be bisexual actually do show bisexual arousal patterns. He also found the same for many men who claimed to be gay or straight: they showed a bisexual pattern of arousal.

    Regarding your comment, so you think the solution is to force feminine boys to be something that they are not, and make their childhoods miserable, because they will feel superior as masculine men in the future? Isn’t a better solution to change Society’s prejudices so that who they are is cherished, rather than oinly an idealized version of what they should be? As for being feminine decreasing their chances of having sexual partners as adults, it is highly debatable if constantly denying who you are in order to get sexual partners is actually worst than not having partners, but at least being respected and cherished for who you are.

    And none of this addressed the biggest issue, which is that only feminine boys undergo this sort of prejudice. People are far more forgiving gand accepting of masculine girls. This is cruel and unfair to feminine boys, and a clear case of bias.

  96. @R.G. Camara

    The more over hand cricket style “lob” or “bowl” of a grenade was used (I believe) to minimise the danger of the grenade being entangled in some bit of kit — such as the camoflauge in a steel helmet.

  97. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rapparee

    Sure. But the same can be said for girls: teaching your daughter some jiu-jitsu will keep jerks – and potential rapists – at bay. So your argument is invalid because the ability to defend against bullies is invaluable to both boys and girls.

    But this is not the real issue. The real issue is why should we teach boys to be aggressive and domineering to deal with the aggressivness of other boys? This is the mentality that leads to delinquency and warfare.

    A much better solution is to tell boys that it is ok to cry, to not like punching people in the face and that violence is bad. Studies have shown that even the toughest warriors become broken from dishing violence on others. PTSD is very real, and many men who considered themselves tough and went to war became mentally broken by the experience. Human beings are not naturally aggressive, except for a few mental defectives, drug addicts and psychopaths, who by definition are freaks.

    Every single Society considers violence something loathsome and repproachable. And yet, we tell boys that the way to solve problems is through violence. We consider it a terrible idea and morally repproachable for adults to solve their differences by having punchouts, and yet we tell boys that this is how you earn respect, by punching people. This strikes me as a form of social schizofrenia, where we encourage the same behaviors that we seek to prevent

    • Troll: Yngvar
  98. kihowi says:
    @Rapparee

    Oh yeah? I’m in one of those nations that mostly play soccer and throughout my childhood all the boys threw like boys are supposed to throw, and the girls threw like girls. This wasn’t taught to anybody.

    I have no doubt in my mind there’s a large genetic component to it, and O’Rourke just wanted to get a little bitch in about soccer.

  99. @B36

    “Just think of puberty blockers and mutilating surgery….”
    I find the thought of parents allowing (even encouraging) this in a child under 16 completely
    appalling. This should be obvious, but children often don’t know what they want. Allowing a child to engage in irreversible surgery or the like is just wrong.

  100. @Jack D

    “we spent $1 Trillion so that Iran could take power in Iraq”
    And don’t forget all the blood…. Not that your elites care much about the blood, treasure OR strategic stupidity.
    “The Iranians sent their militia the other day to attack the American embassy”
    Are you talking about Iraqi citizens in Baghdad or some other embassy?

  101. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Did you know that the Bambino holds the record for the longest game pitched as a starter? 14 innings, yes 14! at home for the Sox.

  102. @Rapparee

    To become a man, you must learn to fight. Whether you win or lose is of little import, that you summon the courage to overcome your fear is.

  103. @R.G. Camara

    “Throwing the cricket ball” – i.e. overarm – was a standard part of school sports days when I was at school. But it needs a strong arm – you can easily overdo the throw at the expense of your elbow.

    The record, not set and verified under modern conditions, for throwing a cricket ball is 140 yds 2 ft, on the Durham Sands Racecourse, Co. Durham in 1884, by Robert Percival. No one has verifiably beaten it, but a few have tried, mostly javelin throwers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/23/robert-percival-wisden-record-throwing-cricket-ball

    I first met Bradstock in 2012, when he won a silver medal in the javelin at the Olympic trials. You could not really miss him, he was the 50-year-old wearing a hand-painted union jack bandana. Bradstock is a curious man, a painter and performance artist who currently holds the world record for throwing, among other things, an iPod (154 yards) a soft-boiled egg (118 yards), a copy of the 1976 Guinness Book of World Records (58 yards) as well as a toothpick, a water balloon, a tennis racket, a dollar bill and, yes, a kitchen sink…

    Bradstock says that back in 2010 he broke Percival’s record with a throw of 145 yd 18in…

    Bradstock doesn’t think it is so strange that Percival’s record has stood all these years. After all, Percival was a specialist in an age when the event was taken pretty seriously. There were regular cricket ball-throwing contests around the country, and, according to contemporary reports, he won at least 40 of them. Besides, according to Bradstock, throwing for distance has less to do with size, strength and fitness, which have improved over time, than good technique, which hasn’t.

    I asked Bradstock whether he had been able to repeat the throw, but he said no. He had been in peak condition in 2010 and practising regularly. Can anyone else then? “If you get all the right officials in place, have great wind conditions, and get a good spin on the ball and then throw the hell out it you’ve got a chance,” he wrote a few years ago. To do it, he added, you would need a release velocity of around 115mph, maybe more. And most of the people who can generate that – “javelin throwers, cricketers, baseball players” – would not “risk injuring themselves and ruining their sporting careers” for the sake of it.

    Accuracy? Here’s a cricketer hitting the stumps from around 70 metres.

  104. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    “If you want to get out, win first.”

    Isn’t that what we (the real we, not our rulers) were told to keep things roiling along circa 1965-73?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  105. Anon[119] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara

    Who the hell has kept demographically representative nationwide data on male grip strength for half a century? I’m inclined to call bullshit on this as an urban legend. Is this one of those press release publicity things like all the dating sites do, Jack LaLaine Fitness Centers Warns about Group Strength Crisis! But at any rate, an aging society would lower overall grip strength.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @R.G. Camara
  106. Anon[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Bailey is a scientist in a field full of “studies” people. As you ironically admitted in your first sentence.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  107. @R.G. Camara

    What % of men do physical jobs now vs. years ago? That’s your answer.

  108. @Jack D

    “No wonder they called on the Yank bullpen in those two great International Test Matches”
    Is some kind of reference to WWI &
    WW II? The oldie moldy “the Yanks saved ya” in 2020 ?
    And what the fuck does a cricket score board have to do with anything?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  109. Daniel.I says:
    @songbird

    From what I’ve read, it’s kinda like this – all human embryos start out as female, then (while still in the uterus) a burst of testosterone partly masculinizes it (the process gets completed at puberty).

    If not enough intrauterine testosterone, the brain remains partly feminine, so you get a sissy boy.

    So you’re still gonna end up with a gay man, but with a lot more machismo.

  110. @Jack D

    I can only hope his 72 virgins have beards as good as his.

    Did we really try to kill him, or was it a lucky accident that he was there when we bombed the airport?

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    , @Jack D
    , @Anon
  111. Altai says:
    @Rosie

    A really sad case. ‘Super Awesome Sylvia’. Seemed like a normal girl except she became a very minor celebrity doing science experiments doing the whole ‘girls in STEM’ thing. In late adolescence she ‘discovered’ she was really a boy named Zephyr. Her twitter says she is 18 and has been on testosterone for nearly 10 months now.

    I mean, what guy doesn’t wear a septum piercing? Totally not the modern sign of a girl with serious BPD at all.

    One of the last tweets from her old account is this gem.

    Yes, I wonder who might have made a big deal about a girl doing science experiments and brought attention to it at every turn? It’s like she was trying to tell us something.

    Here’s another showing her ‘progress’.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Chrisnonymous
    , @SFG
  112. Altai says:
    @Rosie

    Found the video. Washington Post, of course.

  113. Brutusale says:
    @Lugash

    Ol’ PJ is past his expiration date, but I remember a comment of his when the Gulf War was ramping up and he was in a bar with a fellow writer having a few and waiting for his travel orders. I don’t remember it verbatim, but he expressed to his friend a hope that there was a group of people a lot smarter than them that actually thought all this invasion stuff out.

    I’m still hoping the same thing.

  114. Polynikes says:
    @Jack D

    Jesus Christ, we really are in the latter stages of the Roman Republic.

  115. bomag says:
    @Felix Keverich

    US occupation forces in Middle East are legitimate military targets

    We started mucking around in Iraq circa 1990 when they had a population of 17 million.

    Now they have a population of 40 million. Not much of a military occupation if it amounts to funneling various aid schemes and shepherding their development.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  116. @Chrisnonymous

    I was under the impression that overhand throwing ability was one of the anatomical developments that distinguished H.sapiens.

    It is, absolutely. Some people with Nenderthal ancestry still can’t do it.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  117. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Homosexuality as it is didn’t exist before 1900, maybe later. “Gays” are a class contrived by the anti-western ruling class (then aspiring ruling class) which preys upon the perverse vices of an alienated and ill population to damage social organization (which it has done extremely effectively). No “gay” man has ever contributed anything to civilization ever, and we would be better off without them. Some men with sodomitical proclivities or behaviour have in the past contributed, but basically none of them were exclusively homosexual, and definitely none of this was due to the vice itself; and besides, some of the mentally retarded are math prodigies, most really, really aren’t. 100% of the homosexual participants of that study are a net drag on society.

    And to the study itself, you’ll find an even greater correlation of IQ with liberalism, anti-racism and other such nonsense, because all these things (along with homosexuality) are in vogue with the ruling class and so are constantly pushed on impressionable young people, the more intelligent and less socially astute of whom are more likely to have greater involvement with it. Homosexuality isn’t primarily genetic, so that small correlation of genetics with homosexuality in modern times could as easily be measuring the same genes that make people socially awkward in their youth, and thus ripe prey for this vile propaganda. There’s a legion of people out there trying to convince vulnerable kids that they must be sexual deviants because they’re a little awkward socially and don’t know how to feel about their changing body or the opposite sex. To try to get kids to waste their lives on a disgusting and dangerous sexual perversion (or worse: destroy their genitals), that will also see them end their own line and die alone is an extremely pernicious evil.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @SFG
  118. @anonymous

    Yes, and we didn’t. And didn’t.

    Fool me once…

    In both cases shouldn’t have been there, but that is a different question.

  119. @Steve Sailer

    But if today’s P’s are so durable, then they should be able to pitch more innings and throw more complete games. The dead ball era ended ca.1920, and for another 40 yrs or so, MLB continued to use a 4 man rotation, and pitchers still pitched more complete games and threw more innings than they do today. The point remains: MLB P’s threw consistently more innings and more complete games up through the 1960’s early 1970’s, and for the most part, few ever developed arm troubles during their careers. Again, if something has been done throughout history on a consistent basis, there’s no reason to state that it can no longer be done just as effectively (when it was being done for decades).

    Example: HOFer Walter Johnson was a pure fastball pitcher. He pitched from 1907-27, and didn’t miss a season due to arm injuries.

    Nolan Ryan was one of the fastest pitchers ever to start in MLB’s history. Clocked once at 108 mph. And yet, Nolan Ryan pitched for 27 yrs without surgery or major arm problems. Ryan threw fast all the time, each start. Yes he had other pitches, but his go to pitch was the fastball. Same with Carlton.

    No one’s arguing that every pitcher threw hard on every pitch all the time. The point is that with a four man rotation, no Tommy John surgery, etc. they managed to pitch more innings and more starts up through the 1960’s just fine. If pitchers could throw more innings and complete games then, they should definitely be able to do so now, with all the comparative advantages they allegedly enjoy today.

  120. @Anonymous

    “Instead of encouraging normal behaviour in abnormal people, wouldn’t it be easier to re-engineer society from the ground up?”

    Think about how stupid you sound. “It’s who I am, don’t judge me,” the battle cry of the insufferable loser with no redeeming qualities. Everyone can improve, a naturally lower capability in any respect isn’t an excuse for vice. “You should be respected and cherished for who you are,” great, but but no one will EVER respect an effeminate weakling or coward, certainly not one who’s never even tried to improve himself. Some things aren’t worth respect or being cherished because they’re just unambiguously bad.

    And sure, introducing an effeminate boy to more masculine things is a sure path to “misery”. Yeah, won’t he be miserable being in better physical shape, being better able to relate to his friends and being more confident with women. Your projecting your own effeminacy into the idea of doing something masculine, he doesn’t have to pass boot camp, every boy can exercise, learn a skill, try out some sports. The idea that some people are more prone to vices, therefore restructure society to prevent complaining about vices, is probably the dumbest product of liberalism, it’s dumber than being totally race blind. “I’m prone to being overweight and can lack motivation, so why be something I’m not? I’ll just sit around, eat garbage, and be an ugly blob headed for a heart attack at 45.”

    • Agree: Monotonous Languor
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  121. @Parisian

    And you believe everything you read coming out of Hollywood, one of the most narcissistic self-absorbed entities on the planet.

    Hepburn was married once, had affairs with numerous men, including aviator Howard Hughes, and had a well documented romance with Spencer Tracy (who himself was a notorious womanizer). See, it’s currently in vogue for the LGBT community to recon as many classic Hollywood stars as being a closeted gay, but little to no direct proof exists for about 99.9% of them actually being gay. Because they weren’t.

    She wasn’t a lesbian. A tomboy, an obnoxious bratty self entitled bitch, that’s granted. But that doesn’t make her a lesbian. Also remember, if this was so well known, then it would’ve gotten out by at least the late ’50’s or ’60’s, but no direct rumors exist of the sort regarding her during most of her lifetime. That’s how we know about George Cukor (who was gay) being gay. That one was well known as gay well before he passed away. Aside from Cukor, there simply aren’t that many stars that were well known to have been gay or lesbian.

    I mean, by this logic, what about Cary Grant? You know he shared a house for a year with actor Randolph Scott. Or what about Clark Gable and John Wayne? You can go down this road forever and recon as many stars as possible, but that doesn’t make it so.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  122. @Intelligent Dasein

    Where is the WTF button when you want it? You and Rose McGowan.

  123. songbird says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    I’m not suggesting that they be given testosterone. Rather, I am just interested in it on the level of medical theory and history.

    I imagine that what happened was that they did prescribe testosterone in certain cases, and it didn’t work. So, what they are doing now, would be kind of an extension of that. Different politics are involved, but in some ways it is predicated on the failure of the earlier efforts. That is, if they had succeeded, we wouldn’t be at this point now.

    • Replies: @Anon
  124. Art Deco says:
    @Parisian

    I gather Scotty Bowers could sell you metal toilet seats in Fairbanks.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  125. Rosie says:
    @Anon

    I’m fairly certain this is also fictitious:

    The younger the woman (i.e. the later in the 20th century they were born), the more confident she always was that she can win/hold her own. Then I laughingly blast their hand down with no effort and they get a soft, feminine, confused look in their eyes—-“but wait feminists and movies/TV/pop music told me I was just as strong as you oh my that was very hot how you just blew me out of the water lets have another drink”.

    We’re all well aware that men are physically stronger than we are. We just don’t really GAF.

    Even Martina Navratilova knows it.

  126. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jack D

    So America should just turn the other cheek when the Iranians slap us around? Maybe you can get Obama to run again – that was his policy.

    No, we just shouldn’t be there. We shouldn’t have been there in the first place. This isn’t any fight that ought to concern the U.S.

    By the way, we also blew up the deputy commander of the PMF, a mostly shiite paramilitary organization that has official recognition by the Iraqi government. So…………we just blew up a general in the army of our ally / client-state. How does that work exactly?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  127. @Anonymous

    “A much better solution is to tell boys that it is ok to cry,”

    Every time I hear the old “let’s teach our children to be candyasses” spiel, I picture Hitler walking into a hippie commune. Helpless wards of the state may sound good to you but it’s actually a one way ticket to slavery. Next you’ll be trying to put estrogen in our water supply.

  128. @R.G. Camara

    Throwing like a girl has less to do with whether you are throwing overhanded, underhanded, or side-armed and more to do with the fact that they throw the ball completely with their arms and don’t put any shoulder or torso into it. It’s all elbow and wrist, basically flicking the ball.

    The girlyest of overhand throws would be basically like how you throw a dart, bending your elbow and bringing the ball up to your shoulder.

  129. Mr. Anon says:
    @nebulafox

    Look, I think that long-term, we’re going to need a more normal relationship with Iran if we really want to stop hyper-focusing on that part of the world with money we don’t have anymore, on the behalf of foreign powers. But we shouldn’t pretend the mullahs wish us anything good, or that regime is in any way sympathetic.

    I’m not pretending that. But I thought that the “long-term” you were speaking of was going to start on January 21st, 2017. That’s what a lot of us voted for: less involvement in the middle-east, not more. Trump staffed his administration with the same kind of people that Jeb Bush would have – in some cases, exactly the same people as Jeb would have – and doesn’t seem especially interested in making good on any of his campaign promises.

  130. @International Jew

    “Did we really try to kill him, or was it a lucky accident that he was there when we bombed the airport?”

    I wondered that too. Turns out we’ve been tracking his movements and hit his convoy. He got to thinking he was impervious. He was mistaken.

  131. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    If you want to get out, win first.

    And how do you do that? What constitutes winning?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  132. @Rosie

    A 12-year-old girl homeschooled student, admittedly very sheltered, told me in all sincerity that girls are just as strong as boys but you can’t see their muscles. When I told her no, that’s not true, she almost cried so I didn’t press the point. She looked terrified, actually. Girls are being taught to fear men, more than any Victorian virgin bride ever did, and this belief that they can take on a man is a brittle defense. Movies promote this belief with an endless stream of 105-lb. kickass girl fighters beating up grown men. I have to think that a lot of women truly believe this idea now, or why would they be all for allowing MtoF trans in women’s sports? I feel sorry for girls now. They’re being sent out into the world truly defenseless, mentally defenseless, which is worse than physical weakness by far.

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @Rosie
  133. Anonymous[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    The more Middle Eastern oil costs the better. We know natural gas burning cars, thorium reactors and if needed making coal into diesel fuel can get our ass out of the Middle East. Cheap oil just keeps us on the Middle East tit.

    • Replies: @anon
  134. Anonymous[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @sb

    There’s a little bit of cricket in the US now. The dots and a few anglophiles play out at Sprint (FCI Leawood) on 119th street out here.

  135. res says:
    @R.G. Camara

    Here is an article discussing the grip strength change: http://nautil.us/issue/45/power/raising-the-american-weakling
    Well referenced and worth a read IMHO.

    To provide some perspective, here is a graph by age (I think this is the 1985 norms discussed below):

    Second, its weird because who would’ve thought to measure and quantify it so long ago??? And is it valid? It has the whiff of validity about it, but it could be a huge junk science study.

    Grip strength has a well established relationship with mortality. If you look at the article above you will see it is a better mortality predictor than systolic blood pressure. It is also a good marker for aging (especially the unhealthy kind).

    Also, 30 years ago isn’t THAT long. The US has had regular national health examination surveys since 1960:
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nhanes/history.htm

    It’s odd that the article does not give a reference for the paper it was based most directly on–Fain’s 2016 study. So here it is:
    Comparative study of millennials’ (age 20-34 years) grip and lateral pinch with the norms
    https://www.jhandtherapy.org/article/S0894-1130(15)00212-4/abstract

    The full text (accepted manuscript) is available on Sci-Hub.

    The motivation for this paper was that current patients were consistently testing below the 1985 norms.

    Primary conclusion from the abstract:

    Conclusion: Current data reflects statistically significant differences from the norms for all male grip measurements, as well as for females’ 20-24 age group (bilateral grip) and 25-29 (right grip). No statistical significance was observed in the independent sample ttests for the lateral pinch in the males for all age groups. Statistical significance was noted for lateral pinch for female age groups: (20-24) for left hand, and (30-34) for bilateral lateral pinches.

    Some selected results to compare with the plot above (which I think is those 1985 norms). The female results are mixed (it is interesting how much better the 30-34 year old women do! I am confused because the increases shown in Figure 1 for that group are even larger than stated below), but the male results show a clear decrease.

    Females ages 20-24, yielded data for the average right grip strength that are lower by 5.2 kgs (11.4 lbs) and the average left upper extremity grip strength are lower by 2.7 kgs (6 lbs).

    For females ages 25-29, the average right upper extremity grip strength are lower by 3 kgs (6.7 lbs) and the average left upper extremity grip strength is higher by 0.6 kgs (1.3 lbs).

    For females in the 30-34 age group right upper extremity grip strength average is higher by 1.5 kgs (3.3 lbs) and the left upper extremity grip strength average is higher by 4.3 kgs (9.4 lbs)

    Data for males in the 20-24 age group, yielded average right upper extremity grip strength are lower by 9.1 kgs and the average left upper extremity grip strength are lower by 2.6 kgs (5.8 lbs).

    Males in the 25-29 age group demonstrated a lower grip in the right upper extremity grip strength average by 11.7 kgs (25.8 lbs) and the left upper extremity grip strength average are lower by 8.6 kgs (18.9 lbs).

    Males in the 30-34 group, the right upper extremity grip strength average are lower by 10.5 kgs (23.1 lbs) and the left upper extremity grip strength average are lower by 4.4 kgs (9.7 lbs).

    I’m not sure I trust the data underlying this paper to be representative of the US as a whole. Here is some detail on their dataset.

    A non-experimental cross sectional research design with data collected over one semester was used in this quantitative study due to the fact that the recruitment of participants included a convenience sample that was not randomized, controlled, or manipulated19. Participants were full-time students 20-34 years of age (Millenials’ age group), totaling 237 participants with 154 being females and 83 being males, Participants were recruited at university settings in North Carolina.

    Here is a National Review article discussing the same paper:
    Men Are Getting Weaker—Because We’re Not Raising Men
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/08/male-physical-decline-masculinity-threatened/

    Lastly, a 2018 paper using what is probably a better dataset–the 2011 normative phase of the NIH Toolbox project:
    Hand-Grip Strength: Normative Reference Values and Equations for Individuals 18 to 85 Years of Age Residing in the United States
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29792107
    That paper has a much more detailed presentation of the current data. It includes regression equations relating grip strength to sex, age, height, and weight. The R^2 values range from 0.32-0.44 so decent but not great predictors. It also includes tables giving 10/25/50/75/90 percentiles by sex and 5 year age buckets from 18-85.

    Here is what Wang (2018) has to say about its data.

    There are two large scale, relatively recent studies, involving the population of the US that provide grip strength data over the lifespan that might be used to generate normative reference values. One study, the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES),11 is an ongoing research program conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) to assess the health and nutritional status of adults and children in the US and to track changes over time. Perna et al.29 (2016) have reported grip strength estimates using 2011-2012 NHANES data, but they looked at the strength of both hands combined. The other study is the NIH Toolbox.19 It incorporates a multidimensional set of brief royalty-free measures for assessing emotional, cognitive, sensory, and motor function in people ages 3-85. Data were collected for the normative phase of the NIH Toolbox project in 2011,2 but up to this point normative data have only been published in the peer-reviewed literature for individuals 3 to 18 years of age.8 We recently compared grip strength testing results and procedures of the NHANES and NIH Toolbox studies.9 Stratified grip strength values derived from the data of the two studies were sometimes comparable, but the instrumentation and procedures used in the two studies differed considerably – with those of the NIH Toolbox being much more consistent with the recommendations1 of the American Society of Hand Therapists17 and Roberts et al.33 Thus, data from the NIH Toolbox study were used to address the two purposes of the present study: (1) to provide US population based grip strength reference values for 18- to 85-year-olds, and (2) to develop normative regression equations for grip strength.

    I did not do a detailed comparison, but their 18-24 year old male averages were 47.0 kg dominant and 44.9 kg nondominant. This compares to the Fain (2016) averages of 45.8 kg right and 44.7 kg left.

    Overall, Wang (2018) looks like a better study to me, but it does not contain the direct comparisons over time. It also contains data across the whole 18-85 age range.

    One thing that concerns me is I think the generational changes may be making the typical observed age decline less abrupt than it truly is longitudinally (what one person experiences). Think about how today’s 55 year old being stronger at age 25 than today’s 25 year old (and I’m guessing the trend extends to today’s 85 year old) would affect the observed vs. true age curve.

  136. Parisian says:
    @Art Deco

    Gather what you please. I hope you have at least one working toilet seat. There was another one I read about at the time I wouldn’t read because it was obvious he was making all sorts of salacious things up about Brando, Newman, Jackie O’Nassis, and made whole fake books about many of them.

    Of course, Bowers’s subjects were all dead by the time he wrote about them, but if he embellished some it was because of old age. For example, he lived in Hollywood from the time of the great 30s stars and could have as easily made up stuff about Garbo, Dietrich, Mae West, Gary Cooper. He was this totally laid-back farmboy from Ohio, was a Marine for awhile, then started this up. He’s on the dumb side, but was mostly straight or when not, always top, but seemed to have no judgment about some of the real fellationists like Cole Porter or total nymphos like Vivien Leigh. There was Gore Vidal so he had affairs and a long-faithful wife at the same time.

    He’s been written up by fully legit writers (I’ll try to find that other one who made 10 or more books about Brando and Newman fucking each other like crazy, etc., which were not at all convincing, especially that they’d be published) and has not to my knowledge been adjudged to be making up salable gossip. Only one book. I’m not going to research it further, but it was pretty well-known that K. Hepburn was lesbian, so I only wrote because in this case, at least, we have have a lesbian playing a tomboy, and even if real tomboys, cf. the article cited, don’t usually grow up to be lesbians, when they’re lesbians they’re bound to be good at playing them. Bowers and Hepburn were quite close ‘buddies’, but there was obviously nothing more, except that he said she had such bad skin and required lots of makeup. She was beautiful for about a decade and when won the Oscar for ‘Morning Glory’, but becomes very dykish in ‘The African Queen’. I hate admitting she was such a great actress because I find her persona so disagreeable, but in ‘Long Day’s Journey Into Night’, you get one of the great screen performances. There are also old queens like Charles Laughton into vile things, etc.

    None of that matters for you. It’s enough that Katharine Hepburn’s lesbianism, which if you think about it was always so obvious, would be of great use for playing a mere tomboy.

  137. Jack D says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Well if US troops are legitimate Iranian military targets (I didn’t know that Iran had declared war against us) then Gen. Solemaini was a legitimate US military target too. In fact we would be justified in destroying their entire military and especially the “Republican Guards”. You can’t have it both ways. But the idea that they should be give a free pass to nip at our heels and not get swatted back for it is ridiculous.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Art Deco
  138. Anonymous[328] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    A “scientist” that does poorly designed studies, with poorly selected and defined criteria, doesen’t control for extrinsic factors that might interfere with the results, and then as a result comes to faulty conclusions that he admits to latter is not a good scientist. One of the basics of the scientific method is to control for all the variables that might affect the result and isolate the one variable you want to study. Baily has done several studies where he failed to do that.That is not a good scientist.

  139. Parisian says:

    I thought it would be hard to find, since I decided not to read any of their trash, but it was Darwin Porter and Danforth Prince. I discovered these on the same blog as Bowers, but I’d remembered when Bowers’s book came out in 2012. You can read his wiki if you want to know who vouched for his honesty about these things, including most extravagantly Gore Vidal, but he was reviewed by major journalists.

  140. Jack D says:
    @International Jew

    This was no accident. It’s possible we were there to take out the Shiite militia leader al-Mohandis and just got lucky that the Iranian General was there too, but I suspect not. Soleiman had gotten too comfortable with the idea that Iraq was now an Iranian vassal state and that he was free to visit it and plan further attacks against America any time he liked. America’s chicken behavior when it came to punishing Iranian attacks had never given him reason to think otherwise.

  141. @Jack D

    The Iranians are going to look for ways to retaliate but this is going to be harder for them to do because their mastermind is dead.

    The constraint re killing senior foreign leaders was always more political than practical. Killing Iran’s No. 2 means No. 1 is plausibly on some list. Khamenei is gonna be going through a few sleepless nights. And the prospect of personal destruction, perhaps while dining with family members, will limit the retaliation. Thanks to the miracle of stealth aircraft and long-range air-launched cruise missiles called JDAM-ER’s, GPS-guided bombs can reach every square foot of Iran. A 2000 lb JDAM would take out Khamenei’s mansion, never mind his kin.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @istevefan
    , @BB753
  142. @Jack D

    LOL at that “us”

    Shameless “let’s you and him fight” energy here. Belloc was right. They should have to wear their caftans around when they opine on our politics.

  143. Sissy Boy is a great name for the next Marvel Universe character.

    A few back-of-the-napkin notes:

    * Budget friendly, because can reuse an old Superman or Supergirl costume. Just add some gold lamé around the S, replace cape with velcro attached feather boa or NY Jets banner
    * Dispenses glitter as chaff
    * Soy is to Sissy Boy as spinach was to Popeye (Soy Boy as his Robin-like sidekick?)
    * By day he’s a mild-mannered columnist for The Bulwark and Huffington Post

    • Replies: @anon
  144. @res

    American men are getting weaker , could be due to falling testosterone levels caused by increased obesity combined with less physically demanding jobs

    My father and grandfather had much stronger hand strength than me and my brothers , probably. because they worked blue collar jobs. Doing physical work every day also boosts ones testosterone levels compared to office work.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @anon
  145. Art Deco says:
    @Parisian

    but it was pretty well-known that K. Hepburn was lesbian,

    Found a picture of you:

    https://advancedgraphics.com/tootsie-pop-cherry/

    • Replies: @Parisian
  146. Art Deco says:
    @Parisian

    but it was pretty well-known that K. Hepburn was lesbian,

    Found a picture of you:

    https://advancedgraphics.com/tootsie-pop-cherry/

  147. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s not unfair or prejudiced. Women are the weaker sex. Nobody takes tomboys or women pretending to be masculine seriously. It’s like a kid trying to sit with the grown ups or do grown up things. It’s amusing, charming even. But when boys and men act like girls and women, it’s off putting. It’s like when healthy people pretend to be sick or handicapped. It’s not the same thing.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    , @Anonymous
  148. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D

    You can’t have it both ways.

  149. Neoconned says:

    This is anecdotal but a male relative of mine weirdly noticed the point made at the end of the article….twins tend to be bi or gay at weirdly high rates.

    I recall an MTV dating show an ex of mine used to watch religiously….anyway there was a twin lesbian and she said she and her twin were both gay….and that her triplet siblings also were….

    For some reason I remember that.

    • Replies: @Elli
  150. Forbes says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    More likely, it is this week’s 24/7 high potential trigger for outrage, sensationalism, and Orange Man Bad from network and cable news programs, to be followed by some other high potential trigger for outrage, sensation, and Orange Man Bad next week…

  151. @Reg Cæsar

    A crate of the finest Swedish lutefisk says Grim Greta declares herself a lesbian before her 21st birthday and becomes a “man” before her 30th.

  152. Parisian says:
    @Art Deco

    Would you consiuder shutting the fuck up now? What an obvious troll, even if you’re a regular. I gave you ways to look these up, and so maybe you’re just an extreme K. Hepburn fan. But you cannot converse. I gave you information you wouldn’t have known otherwise, so obviously just live online like most do.

    In any case, the info may be of interest to some others, although it’s a minor detail. Probably the only one I can think of, and gay actors like Rock Hudson did not do gay roles. Brando was bi and did play a homosexual in Reflections in a Golden Eye with Liz. Your cred as redneck is quite expansive.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  153. Forbes says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Hall of Fame pitcher Bob Gibson (from the ’60s) has claimed that today’s pitchers don’t do enough work–don’t throw enough pitches and innings–to build up their arm strength. Hence, they pitch less, less effectively, and are injured more often as their arms are over-stressed due to a lack of conditioning in both strength and endurance.

    Gibson pitched with a 4-man rotation compared to today’s 5-man rotation, and regularly pitched 300 innings per season compared to today’s typical 200 innings for a starting pitcher.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  154. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew

    Did we really try to kill him, or was it a lucky accident that he was there when we bombed the airport?

    You mean we would just randomly bomb chief airports of our own client states? Even USG is not that nutso yet.

  155. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Khamenei is gonna be going through a few sleepless nights. And the prospect of personal destruction, perhaps while dining with family members, will limit the retaliation. Thanks to the miracle of stealth aircraft and long-range air-launched cruise missiles called JDAM-ER’s, GPS-guided bombs can reach every square foot of Iran. A 2000 lb JDAM would take out Khamenei’s mansion, never mind his kin.

    Do you really think a mafia-style war of assassination is playing to America’s strengths as the nation with the best conventional military in the world? We could probably do okay at it but assassination is primarily the tool of second-rate powers (see Serbia vs. Austria-Hungary) for a reason.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  156. Parisian says:

    The most interesting part of the article from 1986 was that there were so many effeminate male heterosexuals, even if not as many butch gals becoming full-fledged lesbians. I had noticed it a few times, when men I thought were obviously ‘sissy-boy’ were married. I don’t know if that’s still the case, since it’s clear that all perception about sexuality has changed toward the disintegration of binary gender identity, which is usually the only subject the various ‘new LGBTQ’ types want to talk about.

    In 2018, I didn’t know the Pride Day parade was now going up 7th ave., and I always try to stay in the entire day, but I needed bulk coffee. The main thing I noticed was that super-sissy-boys were being more or less led around on leashed by the lesbians. A couple of millennial muscular types, but even they were fem. There were no actually masculine homosexuals that I could see. The 2019 was much worse, and I did manage to stay in all day, there was just the residue filthifying my stoop. Even the porn stores closed because it was mobbed due to 50th anniversary of Stonewall–because another thing about these gender-identity fetishists is that they are not interested in sex as such, but only arguing about this so-called ‘comfortable new identity’. One of the NRx guys had a thread on his Twitter that had transwomen lecturing garden-variety lesbians about how they were ‘penis-phobic’, and should also be forced to date them. This ‘forcing’ of dates and/or foreplay (I guess that’s what it is) was like the incel phenomenon, of which I became aware at about the same time, except for the incel shootings. I had not known there were large groups of unattractive men who could not even get laid by unattractive women. That’s definitely a long row to hoe. But since woman always want the top 20% of the best men, it’s maybe not so infrequent, and these homely women can also be left alone in their ’embattled female flesh’, as Faulkner put it in Absalom! Absalom! You could almost smell it. I’ve known of 2 old sisters living together who never got laid and also ‘hated lesbians’. But I didn’t know virginity was so widespread by now–ands it’s long much more so in the UK than in the US, which I also thought rather extraordinary.

  157. @Mr. Anon

    Unconditional surrender, the usual.

    Not necessarily official. They’ll let us know when they don’t want any more.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  158. Parisian says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I gave you the names of obviously fake writers who wrote over 20 celeb books that are salacious. Of course Cary Grant and Randolph Scott were gay and Clark Gable and John Wayne weren’t. I don’t care to ‘see them as gay’. There is little else to say to someone who starts with the totally demented accusation of ‘believing everything that comes out of Hollywood’. But there always has been extreme looseness sexually there, and there was the luxury to experiment, which many did do. If you just don’t WANT to believe that, I wouldn’t blame you, because you cannot write. I’ve heard rumours of Garbo being a lesbian, but I don’t believe that for a minute, but Marlene Dietrich’s hundreds of sexual encounters (more often with men) are well-documented. At least you probably know that Ramon Navarro was murdered by 2 hustlers in Laurel Canyon–the case was famous, and Joan Didion wrote it up in ‘The White Album’.

    So you can argue with this, even though I told you and the other asshole before:

    According to film critic Peter Debruge, writing for Variety in 2006: “Everyone knows Scotty. After all, he’s been serving drinks to the Beverly Hills crowd for almost 60 years, working a different party almost every night of the week, sometimes two a day.” Gore Vidal, maintaining Bowers’ account was accurate, spoke at the official launch of the memoir; Vidal’s last public appearance Robert Benevides, the partner of actor Raymond Burr, said to the LA Weekly: “Scotty just liked to make people happy.” Film director John Schlesinger and investigative reporter and novelist Dominick Dunne also backed Bowers’ claims.[22]

    Joan Allemand, a former arts director of the Beverly Hills Unified School District, who knew Bowers for more than 20 years and introduced him to his subsequent co-writer, Lionel Friedberg, said: “Scotty doesn’t lie about anything. He’s a poor kid from a farm in Illinois, and when he got here, his two assets were his big penis and charming personality. That’s what he used to feed his family.”[

    Anybody who’s studied Hollywood, spent an enormous amount of time there, and published 3 books on it does not ‘want somebody to be straight or gay’ as a high school fantasy. But it’s ridiculous to pretend that there are not large proportions of male gays in Hollywood, theater, and certainly ballet (but not usually the danseurs nobles, one of whom lost his A.D. job at NYCB without rape charges during the most overheated part of that Spanish Inquisition known as #MeToo in 2017. He was accused of sexual harassment of the girl dancers, and 2 male soloists were also fired for sending nude pictures of some of the girl dancers (who were there girlfriends) . Nothing was ever said about her invasion of his privacy by trespassing his emails.

  159. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    It’s overdetermined but very real. May be some sort of allergic reaction to Hiroshima.

  160. Rosie says:
    @Red Pill Angel

    I have to think that a lot of women truly believe this idea now, or why would they be all for allowing MtoF trans in women’s sports?

    That’s just it. I don’t think they are. This poll doesn’t break it down by age and gender, but the American public is overwhelmingly opposed.

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/10/transgender-athletes-womens-sports-opposed-most-am/

    • Agree: Desiderius
  161. @Mr. Anon

    in the army of our ally

    He was explicitly in the army of our self-declared enemy who had just attacked our embassy and was in combat at the side of the military leader of that enemy, to whom he had just declared allegiance.

    Iraq is (marginally) a client state of the empire. Our country is what matters. When we regain the authority to do so we leave. Until then Iraq gets to negotiate with the empire. Maybe it will distract them from the coup.

    The attack on the embassy was an attack on our country, so defending it isn’t a problem. The ball is now in Iran’s court. If they want more they’ll get more, if they want peace they can have that instead. Support is too shaky for the empire to push war against Iran’s wishes.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  162. Art Deco says:
    @Parisian

    Would you consiuder shutting the fuck up now?

    I’ve got a ways to go before I’ve used as many words as you have in this exchange.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  163. Parisian says:
    @Art Deco

    Aha! One’s dull response. I thought so. You just don’t know anything.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  164. @Rosie

    Having now read the article, I’m not all that reassured; 51% opposed to transgenders competing as their gender identity is not an overwhelming majority. That still leaves a sizeable minority of disagreeable sjws plus plenty of agreeable squishies ready to sit down and shut up on order.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  165. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    Alan Turing contributed much to WWII war effort

    • Replies: @anonymous1963
  166. @res

    Those grip strength figures might reflect changing propensity for masturbation.

  167. @Rosie

    I’m fairly certain this is also fictitious:

    lol. Most young women these days have a wildly distorted view of their strength, thanks to girl power brainwashing, female sports, female affirmative action in masculine activities, and media representations of women beating up men with ease. Having never had fathers around or had gender roles reinforced, many girls are unaware of the capacity of men for physical labor far exceeds their own.

    Even Martina Navratilova knows it.

    Martina is from a past generation. I’m talking women 40 and below. The more recent her birth, the more delusional she is.

    But nice try with the denial, sweetheart!

    P.S. And you do most certainly GAF, little trolly girl.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  168. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird

    I imagine that what happened was that they did prescribe testosterone in certain cases, and it didn’t work.

    Yeah, I can vouch for that (not personally).

  169. Art Deco says:
    @Parisian

    You just don’t know anything.

    You have an affection for celebrity gossip of dubious provenance. Yeah, I try not to know much about that.

  170. Late to this, but I do wonder why you keep talking about the 1949 version, which made a lot of money but was critically not well-received at the time, and today is just considered a dreary film. June Allyson is one of the least well-regarded “actress” or her era. Jimmy Stewart openly talked about how much he dreaded working with her (the studio put them together three times).

    The reason why you saw Kate throwing the ball is, as you said, because she was extremely athletic. The reason you saw June throw the ball is that the script they used for the 1949 version was the same script–like, literally. Some script doctors changed things (like Amy being older than Beth), but the same people are given credit for both scripts.

    June Allyson was 31 at the time she played Jo, while Kate was 25 or 26, wich is Ronan’s age as well. Ryder was 22, the youngest Jo.

    The obvious comparison point for both the Kate version and the current one is the outstanding 1994 film, which did a very respectable box office (top 50 in 1995, I think) and was also directed by a woman, and also had a very proto-feminist Marmee.

    I don’t recall Jo being a tomboy in that version, either. As terrific as Bale was in this movie, the 1994 version is the only one where it seemed reasonable that she went off with Gabriel Byrne–by far the highest profile Professor Bhaer of any of the casts (he had Miller’s Crossing behind him and Usual Suspects right in front of him). Paul Lukas and Rossano Brazzi had careers in front of them.

    I’ve actually read the book, by the way, and Jo wasn’t particularly athletic in the book. She loved reading and writing, not typical hobbies of a tomboy. She was active, loved running and dancing, and mostly wanted to be a boy for the independence it offered.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  171. Art Deco says:
    @bomag

    Actually, we ejected their military from a small principality (with a great deal of oil) that they’d seized and despoiled. Really isn’t terribly difficult to avoid being ‘mucked about’ with by the United States government, and 99% of the countries in this world manage it.

  172. @Parisian

    “Jackie O’Nassis”. After one Irishman, I guess she just couldn’t do without another.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  173. @Anonymous

    Agreed. But how common is it?

    I’ve thought back to my Jesuit (and therefore all male) high school and in my year (about 200 boys) I can remember only one who was noticeably effeminate.
    It is perhaps telling that he is now an equally noticeably left-wing Jesuit priest.

  174. Homo stuff is overrated & there are, actually, very few homosexuals (and even less lesbians). And even when they are- who gives a damn…

    It is a sign of something decadent to harp on sexuality on and on and on and on ….- and not have children.

    And “atypical” behavior in children (effeminacy in boys etc.) is absurdly overblown. That’s just a phase & only sick mentality in a society would try to biologically alter those children. Just leave them alone & don’t try to force upon them your weird obsessions, pathological idiocy & the rest.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  175. Art Deco says:
    @education realist

    June Allyson is one of the least well-regarded “actress” or her era.

    Except by the people who paid cash to see her films, the people who cast her in 30-odd feature films, and the people who gave her a Golden Globe Award.

    • Replies: @education realist
  176. Rosie says:
    @R.G. Camara

    P.S. And you do most certainly GAF, little trolly girl.

    No, we really don’t.

    Does it bother you that black men can run faster than you?

    But nice try with the denial, sweetheart!

    Typical. Contradict and declare victory. No evidence needed.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  177. @The Wild Geese Howard

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but you need to get out more.

    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Disagree: The Wild Geese Howard
  178. Rosie says:
    @Red Pill Angel

    Having now read the article, I’m not all that reassured;

    You always have to compare the favorable with the opposed. 51% may not sound like much, but only 28% support it. You’re always going to have an indifferent middle that hasn’t really gi even it much thought and doesn’t have strong feelings either way.

  179. Anonymous[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    They weren’t very good or powerful and threw soft junkballs all day.

    Old time hitters would be eaten alive by Triple A relivers

  180. @Art Deco

    You are apparently unaware of the purpose of verb tense. Of course Allyson was a huge star–why do you suppose she was paired with Jimmy Stewart so often? Why was she cast as Jo in Little Women at the age of 31? I put “actress” in quotes because she was primarily a musical star who then went into straight work.

    She IS poorly regarded today and has been for several decades. Few of her movies ever show up on TCM or other classic movie channels, and the ones that do usually have Jimmy Stewart in them. Even her version of Little Women doesn’t get much attention. Her appeal just hasn’t held up. That’s not at all unusual. Robert Taylor was a huge star whose attraction no one really understands today.

  181. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    Unconditional surrender, the usual.

    We’re in no position to demand that.

    Not necessarily official. They’ll let us know when they don’t want any more.

    What about if WE don’t want any more. Where do I surrender?

    You are evidently a madman.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  182. SBaker says:
    @Altai

    Previously they were goths or later emos and then stopped being goths or emos, but now you can’t stop the damage of puberty blockers, hormone treatments or SRS. It’s crazy and completely obvious.

    Crazy? I would call it serious child abuse.

  183. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    He was explicitly in the army of our self-declared enemy who had just attacked our embassy and was in combat at the side of the military leader of that enemy, to whom he had just declared allegiance.

    Iraq is (marginally) a client state of the empire. Our country is what matters. When we regain the authority to do so we leave.

    So you say, and yet we will not.

    The attack on the embassy was an attack on our country, so defending it isn’t a problem.

    The embassy exists to serve our interests. (No, not really, as we all know – it doesn’t serve any of OUR actual interests, but still, ostensibly). If our very presence there drags us into a war that is not in our interest, then it were simply better not to have an embassy there. I see no compelling reason to have an embassy in Baghdad. Or any number of other places. Moreover, without the embassy, it becomes harder for people to apply for visas to come here.

    All you bellowing blowhard chickenhawks – if you desire war so much – should enlist and go there and fight yourselves.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  184. Hibernian says:
    @animalogic

    The oldie moldy “the Yanks saved ya” in 2020 ?

    In Junior High School I learned that Ancient History ended with the Fall of the Western Empire. Now 75 years ago is Ancient History. Hell, 25 years ago is.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  185. SBaker says:
    @R.G. Camara

    The decline in grip strength is usually associated with aging. Men simply do not do the physical labor they once did and physical education has been deemphasized–4 years of PE were required to graduate HS when I attended Los Altos HS for a couple of years back in the mid 60s. I was a farm boy and a college wrestler and it is ludicrous for women to suggest they can match a young male in decent physical shape. I once dated a female police officer for maybe a month. She was about my height but perhaps 30 lbs lighter. She said she was trained in takedown techniques. I laughed and told her she could put me in any position she wished and I could escape in 30 seconds. She made the attempt and I had her restrained in less than 10 seconds–she tried twice and gave up.

    • Replies: @Stephen Dodge
  186. Rosie says:
    @Altai

    Yes, I wonder who might have made a big deal about a girl doing science experiments and brought attention to it at every turn? It’s like she was trying to tell us something.

    That’s just it. Gender-atypical girls are already confused, and probably hang out with boys all the time anyway. Then when you go and open the question of their gender, why would they not think they had found the answer to their problems?

  187. Anonymous[328] • Disclaimer says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    No, listen to how stupid *you* sound. What have accomplishments got to do with sexuality? Why can’t a gay man be a great human being, a good citizen, an accomplished doctor or engineer or leader of companies as many, indeed, are? You are talking abolute nonsense here.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  188. Anonymous[328] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Of course it is exactly the same thing. Putting aside your obvious bias, and that you consider more insulting for a male to pretend being a female than the other way around, the issue is not the perceived value of masculinity compared to femininity as you imply, but the emotional comfort of the child: girls are allowed to behave in whatever way they feel comfortable, but boys must comform to a closed box of behavior. That is cruel and unfair.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  189. As says:

    Demonstrates the importance of a gender normative upbringing.

    It’s protective.

    People can deviate a bit from gender norms when they’re older.

    But when you’re growing up, they are very very important.

  190. Oh, so zoos and concerts are gay, eh?

    Cheesis H. Rist.

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
  191. @ben tillman

    No, that’s jumping. We can’t jump. Overhand throwing is fine.

    Joking aside, I looked it up after my comment. Developments started with H.erectus, not H.sapiens.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  192. Parisian says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    Thanks, yes. I don’t know how I did that.

    Well, goodbye.

  193. @Altai

    Non-clown-world exchange…

    Doctor: You ‘re really a boy, and you want to be named Zephyr?
    Sylvia: Yes, that’s right.
    Doctor: A boy named Zephyr?
    Sylvia: Yup.
    Doctor: Zephyr. And you’re really a boy?
    Sylvia: Yes, a boy who wants to be named Zephyr.
    Doctor: Sorry, I can’t help you.

  194. @Rosie

    LMAO. Here’s how delusional you broads are these days: chick “fighter” Rhonda Rousey was crazy enough to think she could beat up Floyd Mayweather—the best boxer in the world!

    Seriously, sweetie, you can contradict and declare victory without evidence, but you only look like a typical dumb female doing it.

    • Replies: @Anon
  195. gcochran says:
    @R.G. Camara

    “Not a single 10 -12 year old girl at my age could outfight any boy,”

    sure, some could.

  196. as always, would like to add a random untested anecdotal hypothesis – that some races tend to produce more tomboys. for example, northern europeans, or certain african tribes. the latter’s tomboys go into lesbianism more often, the former not so much but do behave more tomboyish and want more equal marriages than, say, mediterranean/semitic women, or those of certain asian groups (which on other hand promote celibacy to counteract or at least contain seedless fornication and otherwise tomboyishness/sissiness disrupting family groups).

    of course, the connection of tomboys with lesbianism and feminism isn’t a straight line (lol) but there is some correlation, even if less than between sissies and gay men. (probably because male heterosexuality is more demanding; although an excess of tomboys is also bad, sorry northern Europeans). and, if this homo trend-arrow varies at least partly genetically, then at least it must vary partly with race too. the Amerinds had less lesbians but more male homosexuality and goddess worship. some Europeans had tomboyish Amazons or Viking warrioresses, even with manlier pantheons where both male and women were beautiful and sensuous and/or strong.

  197. Elli says:
    @Neoconned

    I don’t know if twins are more likely to be bi or gay, but twins under the age of 30, maybe 35, are more likely than not to have been conceived with some kind of fertility treatment.

  198. @SBaker

    I have no doubt that, in a fair fight, I could beat up almost anybody born in the 20s or 30s or 40s.

    Most people have no idea how hard life was then – horrible nutrition, abundant diseases, and bad ideas about how to be strong, if one was male, or how to be attractive, if one was female.

    So when I say I could easily beat the crap out of almost anyone born in those decades, I know what I am saying and I am right.

    But what is important is not this – whether we could beat up each other in a fair fight – because, in the first place, in the 4000 years of mankind the vast majority of fights were not fair fights – and in the second place the point I am making is not this, whether we are the sort of people who exercise regularly and eat well and live up to our ideals of being tough —- for God’s sake you have no idea how little respect I have for people who think they are tough – don’t make me laugh —- Death is afraid of me and you think you are tough because you work out an hour a day five days a week ????? —-tell me about all the times Death was afraid of you and then I will listen —-

    seriously, my friends, I want you to be what God wants you to be.
    Proverbs 8.

    • Replies: @SFG
    , @SBaker
  199. Parisian says:
    @education realist

    I thought she was all right, then somebody made me watch ‘Good News’. She was good in that, but I don’t care for those musicals anymore. She was more a popular star than a ‘huge star’, I’d say. Something along the lines a Hollywood screenwriter wrote: ‘Ronald Reagan was never a major star’, which is indisputable till he became president (and Nancy a nowhere in the movies, then her true talents showed with all those meetings in the WH with Sinatra–he would have paid no attention otherwise, and surely knew of her ‘talent’ in Hollywood…Didion did a hilarious hatchet job on her.)

    June Allyson worked her main career at the same time of Judy Garland, who had the unique voice. I never think of either of them anymore, but that was probably why she didn’t ever seem quite A-list. Allyson seems a ‘period piece’ to me, like Jeanne Craine or Jayne Mansfield or Sandra Dee–even though the latter was #1 box office one year.

    Mainly interested you brought up Robert Taylor. He was definitely a big star, although I find him fairly wooden. Pauline Kael compared Tom Cruise to him, saying they were both one-dimensional. I don’t object to him except there should have been a better leading man for Garbo in ‘Camille’–a frequent problem she had, with all that Melvyn Douglas and Lewis Stone. Only Charles Boyer totally stood up to her (‘Conquest’ as Napioleon), but the John Gilbert ones were good too, despite his voice: They had almost been married, and she took care of him as he was dying. A lot of people have said that there needed to be a Gary Cooper/Garbo film, and it would have been something fantastic..

    I guess I just don’t get ‘Little Women’ or ‘Little Men’. I don’t see how they still have an audience. Charles Ives’s ‘The Alcotts’, the 3rd movement to his ‘Concord Sonata’, is all that remains of them for me; it’s a somewhat bizarre, hokey piece, which I’ve played a lot. It’s not like Louisa May was Raymond Chandler, but there’s no way his can be re-made yet again. Robert Mitchum was the best Marlowe, in ‘Farewell, My Lovely’..

  200. @Anonymous

    This seems pretty silly. My older son liked sports and dolls and playing in the kitchen center at day care till the girls pushed him out. Maybe that is the real issue. When boys do “girl” stuff, it is the girls who are mean to them.

  201. @obwandiyag

    Uh, oh.

    We made our boys go to the zoo and concerts!

    If only we had known!

    Oh, wait, they aren’t gay and neither is going to the zoo or concerts.

  202. Art Deco says:
    @education realist

    She IS poorly regarded today and has been for several decades.

    By a tiny collection of hobbyists. Who gives a damn?

    • Replies: @Stephen Dodge
  203. Art Deco says:
    @education realist

    Few of her movies ever show up on TCM or other classic movie channels,

    Three are scheduled for January 2020.

  204. @Art Deco

    Art Deco – I care, and I am not a hobbyist.

    You see, my young friend, that either you understand the world or you don’t.

    I like you, in a way, but I have little respect for you.

    WHO GIVES A DAMN WHAT I THINK ABOUT YOU?
    you might ask yourself?

    Well who else is out here on the inter webs telling you to try harder.

    Someday maybe you will understand…

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  205. @Mr. Anon

    Go fuck yourself. I’m neither chicken nor hawk. I’m the first generation in four that hasn’t been half a world away in some war or another. I’m too old to go now and have no interest in anyone else going. There will be no conventional war with Iran, nor even anything approaching Iraq or Afghanistan.

    On the other hand, the empire won’t leave unless forced, but our country would if/when we regain our sovereignty. If Trump doesn’t administer the empire competently then we don’t get that chance anytime soon. It doesn’t matter what your feelings are about the embassy. It was there and it was attacked. Weakness invites such things. The imagery of Saigon, Tehran, and Benghazi – and what it represented – needed to be repudiated.

    It was.

  206. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    girls are allowed to behave in whatever way they feel comfortable, but boys must comform to a closed box of behavior.

    Some girls disagree.

    Madonna, an ardent Hillary Clinton backer, has been increasingly vocal on women’s issues since the election. While accepting Billboard’s Woman of the Year award this weekend, she offered her sharpest criticisms yet against sexism and female self-hatred. This is her acceptance speech.

    [Crowd applause after introduction by Anderson Cooper, who thanked Madonna for giving him faith during his years as a gay teenager. Madonna accepts, adjusting microphone stand between her legs.]

    “I always feel better with something hard between my legs.”

    [Crowd laughs.]

    “I stand before you as a doormat. Oh, I mean, as a female entertainer. Thank you for acknowledging my ability to continue my career for 34 years in the face of blatant sexism and misogyny and constant bullying and relentless abuse.

    “It’s mind-blowing to be honored like this after the very public year I’ve had. I feel stuck, and I feel sad. And quite frankly, today I feel bloated.

    [Crowd laughs]

    “I didn’t really feel like standing up and getting an award — I didn’t feel worthy of that. But I knew I had to drag myself out of my bed, put on my boots and walk up here and say thank you to you guys.

    “In the first year I was held at gunpoint, raped on a rooftop with a knife digging into my throat.”

    “I started off in a difficult time. People were dying of AIDS everywhere. It wasn’t safe to be gay, it wasn’t cool to be associated with the gay community. It was 1979 and New York was a very scary place.

    “In the first year I was held at gunpoint, raped on a rooftop with a knife digging into my throat. And I had my apartment broken into and robbed so many times I just stopped locking the door. In the years that followed, I lost almost every friend I had to AIDS or drugs or gunshot.

    “So I said ‘fuck it. I’m a different kind of feminist.”

    “I remember feeling paralyzed. It took me a while to pull myself together and get on with my creative life — to get on with my life. I took comfort in the poetry of Maya Angelou, and the writings of James Baldwin, and in the music of Nina Simone. I remember wishing I had a female peer I could look to for support. Camille Paglia, the famous feminist writer, said I set women back by objectifying myself sexually. So I thought, ‘oh, if you’re a feminist, you don’t have sexuality, you deny it.’ So I said ‘fuck it. I’m a different kind of feminist. I’m a bad feminist.’
    MORE NEWS: Lil Wayne ‘Cleared’ After Private Plane Searched by Federal Agents In Miami

    “I realized that I could not be a victim any longer. That everything happened for a reason. And my job was to learn from every shitstorm I wandered into.”

    ‘As you can imagine, all these unexpected events not only helped me become the daring woman that stands before you. But it also reminded me that I am vulnerable. And in life, there is no real safety except for self-belief. And, an understanding that I am not the owner of my talents.

    “There are no rules — if you’re a boy.”

    “I was of course inspired by Debbie Harry and Chrissie Hynde and Aretha Franklin, but my real muse was David Bowie. He embodied male and female spirit and that suited me just fine. He made me think there were no rules. But I was wrong.

    “There are no rules — if you’re a boy. If you’re a girl, you have to play the game. What is that game? You are allowed to be pretty and cute and sexy. But don’t act too smart. Don’t have an opinion. Don’t have an opinion that is out of line with the status quo, at least. You are allowed to be objectified by men and dress like a slut, but don’t own your sluttiness. And do not, I repeat, do not, share your own sexual fantasies with the world.

    “Be what men want you to be. But more importantly, be what women feel comfortable with you being around other men. And finally, do not age. Because to age is a sin. You will be criticized, you will be vilified, and you will definitely not be played on the radio.”

    “When I first became famous, there were nude photos of me in Penthouse and Playboy magazine. Photos that were taken from art schools that I posed for back in the day to make money. They weren’t very sexy.”

    I said, ‘Wait a minute, isn’t Prince running around with fishnets and high heels and lipstick with his butt hanging out?’

    “Eventually I was left alone because I married Sean Penn, and not only would he would bust a cap in your ass, but I was off the market. For a while I was not considered a threat. Years later, divorced and single — sorry Sean — I made my Erotica album and my Sex book was released. I remember being the headline of every newspaper and magazine. Everything I read about myself was damning. I was called a whore and a witch. One headline compared me to Satan. I said, ‘Wait a minute, isn’t Prince running around with fishnets and high heels and lipstick with his butt hanging out?’ Yes, he was. But he was a man.

    “This was the first time I truly understood women do not have the same freedom as men.

    “People say I’m controversial. But I think the most controversial thing I have ever done is to stick around.

    [Crowd applause]

    “Michael is gone. Tupac is gone. Prince is gone. Whitney is gone. Amy Winehouse is gone. David Bowie is gone. [pause] But I’m still standing.”

    [Crowd applause]

    “Women have been so oppressed for so long they believe what men have to say about them.”

    “I’m one of the lucky ones and every day I count my blessings.

    “What I would like to say to all women here today is this: Women have been so oppressed for so long they believe what men have to say about them. They believe they have to back a man to get the job done. And there are some very good men worth backing, but not because they’re men — because they’re worthy. As women, we have to start appreciating our own worth and each other’s worth. Seek out strong women to befriend, to align yourself with, to learn from, to collaborate with, to be inspired by, to support, and enlightened by.”

    In reality, of course, there are rules for men and for women, and, yes, they are a little bit different, because men and women are different. Most of the basics are the same. But there are good reasons why things that are tolerated by one are not tolerated by the other. Why certain transgressions by one are far more heavily punished than by the other. And why certain things done by one are of greater market value than by the other.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  207. @Mr. Anon

    We’re in no position to demand that.

    Well, neither you nor I feel much allegiance to the empire so that may be technically true, but the empire has the maxim gun and Iran does not so if the empire is willing to use it they are in exactly that position. Not pretty but war never is.

    If you’re that desperate to surrender, find yourself a dominatrix or a good church and quit bothering us with your personal issues. We’re trying to have a conversation.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  208. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara

    That you take trash-talk from people whose bread and butter is publicity seriously is interesting, but not evidence.

    You might be able to make a good point –I think you have one in a subset of cases– if you fleshed it out a little more. For example, if you can find information about reactions to the speech above, that would be of more note.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  209. @Anon

    lmao. “You have to make this point, do all this work, you peon.”

    How about no. If you don’t want to notice the world around you, son, that ain’t my problem.

    Women are delusional about their physical strength in the modern world, get over it.

    • Replies: @Anon
  210. Anon[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    RIP Qassim. I admired you.

    I admired Qassim, too. Iran has done absolutely nothing wrong to the United States, nor do they pose as an immediate threat. The culture of Iran embraces Traditionalism and is generally anti-Israel. Furthermore, they have a relatively positive relationship with Russia.

    It doesn’t take a genius to figure this one out. The Neocons, Zionists, and most on the Left, despise Traditionalism, worship Israel, and hate Russia with an utmost passion (again, Traditionalism).

    Any country that embraces Traditionalism, doesn’t support Israel, and/or sticks up for Christians (ex. Russia’s Putin, Syria’s Assad, etc.) is an enemy of the United States. Sadly, it’s that simple.

    Just over the last couple of weeks, representatives of the IDF have beaten, shot, and murdered a significant amount of Palestinian Christians…yet there’s no outrage in the West. I wonder why?

    Unfortunately, I see this Iranian matter turning into an enormous disaster that could escalate to an armed conflict of epic proportions and unlike any war that we’ve ever seen before in the Middle East.

  211. @nebulafox

    How was he a “threat” to the United States?

    Unless you are conflating America with global USA hegemony?

  212. @Forbes

    Exactly and amen. I have tried to make these very points to Steve, but for some inexplicable reason, well,…

    Perhaps if Bill James were stating these opinions it would get better traction and carry more weight. After all, whom should one listen to as an authority on the intricacies of MLB, Bill James, the founder of Sabermetrics, or some doofus nobody like HOF P Bob Gibson?

    Bob Gibson, by the way, also did not have serious arm troubles got most of his career, especially as he managed to pitch for 17 yrs (1959-75).

  213. @Parisian

    No direct evidence has ever been produced on either Cary Grant (married five times, numerous affairs with women), or Randolph Scott. In her autobiography, Hepburn stated that Spencer Tracy was the love of her life. She seemed to make it clear that she was straight.

    Yes, there have been and still exist gays in Hollywood. But the idea that prominent A listers are among them is hog wash. That is where the agenda is found. And gays tend to have an agenda when writing or retconning history about subjects that interest them (e.g. the performing arts).

    It’s like sure, no one argues that some 2nd rate B actor who isn’t recalled today and barely made a living was gay, but Alisters? Prove it. And…why exactly should people automatically take the word of those with an agenda?

    Another point often overlooked. How were specific Alisters themselves seen by their peers in their day? And of course there are biographies/autobiographies as well. Grants daughter flatly shot that down when asked about her father. As Grant has been dead for decades now, she would have no reason to deny it. Especially as fewer people are viewing his films any more (since they’re dying off).

    Remember: once a public figure or celeb is dead, anything can be written about them. And of course many things have. And all with a “take our word for it, folks, no agenda. We always tell the truth . We’re not out to make some fast bucks”

    An example of one who believes everything one hears.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  214. @Anonymous

    Yes.

    But did he make that contribution because he was gay?

  215. Parisian says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    This is simply beneath contempt in its ignorance. I won’t converse with such a hick.

  216. @Parisian

    “…when he got here, his two assets were his big penis and charming personality. That’s what he used to feed his family.”

    Man, I don’t ever want to eat at his house.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  217. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    “But there are good reasons why things that are tolerated by one are not tolerated by the other.”

    There is actually no good reason at all. A boy being sensitive and liking to play with dolls doesen’t hurt anyone, and that is also true for girls that like playing sports. It is pure irrational, atavistic bias and prejudice that genders must behave in a given way.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  218. @Sean R

    Normal girls are not great at math.

    Not really true. Math is the one STEM field where women are matched almost evenly with men. A typical math department has a non-negligible percentage of women, and any workplace that actually requires math skills (i.e., business analytics of some sort) will have a large percent of women too. There’s other anecdotal evidence – abstract strategy board games is one of the few hobbies that men and women can enjoy together.

    It’s the engineering disciplines (especially things like civil engineering) that are almost exclusively male.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  219. Coemgen says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    “Female homosexual behavior?”

    Try googling “softball.”

  220. Anonymous[352] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Uganda is full of loony fundie Christians who hate Muslims.

  221. @res

    I’m not questioning the data, Res, but if these people start the y-axis at something other than 0 (why? to visually exaggerate the results somewhat?) but worse yet, use the units of kg instead of Newtons for force, I won’t read any more on it from them. It’s not like I was likely to anyway, just because there’s only so much time I can spend reading unz.

    Force in SI units ought to be in Newtons. I could see for a weight force, using Newtons, but this is stupid.

    BTW, good one, IJ!!

    • Replies: @res
  222. @Desiderius

    “It was there and it was attacked. Weakness invites such things. The imagery of Saigon, Tehran, and Benghazi – and what it represented – needed to be repudiated.”

    Yet the actual physical border of the United States is successfully attacked every single day by people who then illegally occupy US territory. Why aren’t US armed forces defending that, with drone strikes if necessary?

    I guess weakness invites such things.

  223. Art Deco says:
    @Stephen Dodge

    You should sober up before you post. You might actually be coherent. (I find it amusing to be called ‘my young friend’ by anyone younger than the surviving members of the previous generation in my family, who are, as we speak, 89, 90, and 92 years of age).

  224. Art Deco says:
    @anonymous coward

    A typical math department has a non-negligible percentage of women,

    The one I’m best acquainted with hired it’s first tenure track female in 1995. She is the only woman ever granted tenure in that department. Nationally, of doctoral degrees awarded in 2016 in the physical sciences (physics, chemistry, geology), 68% went to men; in mathematics and statistics, it was 71%; in engineering, it was 77%; in computer and information science, 80%.

  225. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for the ex cathedra pronouncement. Been an education.

    • Replies: @Anon
  226. dfordoom says: • Website
    @education realist

    Robert Taylor was a huge star whose attraction no one really understands today.

    Robert Taylor developed into a fine actor. Check him out in movies like The Bribe, Party Girl and Rogue Cop. Among classic movie fans he’s by no means despised.

  227. SFG says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    We shouldn’t have assassinated him–I don’t support war in Iran by any means. Frankly, I think Jared or someone else got to Trump, or (as has been suggested) Tucker Carlson was on holiday.

    But I don’t think he was one of the ‘good guys’, at least from an American point of view. It’s not even an Admiral Yamamoto situation where history puts someone who would otherwise be on your side against you.

    Of course, now they have to react, and there’s a good chance we’ll end up in a war with Iran. I wouldn’t be surprised if that costs Trump the election, especially running against someone like Bernie who’s much more credibly antiwar. Socialism, whatever–a lot of blue-collar people are sick of seeing their kids go to war and come back missing limbs or in a coffin.

    • Replies: @Anon
  228. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG

    But I don’t think he was one of the ‘good guys’, at least from an American point of view. It’s not even an Admiral Yamamoto situation where history puts someone who would otherwise be on your side against you.

    He fought ISIS and the Taliban; that makes him, not a “good guy”, examples of which are in short supply in the ME, but not Satan’s Little Helper either.

  229. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco

    How did you know you were talking to a bishop if he posts under “anonymous”?

  230. M_Young says:
    @Anonymous

    Interesting exception, when Queequeg wants to impress the Quaker owners of the Pequod in John Ford’s “Moby Dick”, he chucks his spear underhand.

  231. @Anon

    Do you really think a mafia-style war of assassination is playing to America’s strengths as the nation with the best conventional military in the world? We could probably do okay at it but assassination is primarily the tool of second-rate powers (see Serbia vs. Austria-Hungary) for a reason.

    Assassinations are cheap. They disrupt the enemy’s command-and-control, because dictatorships work differently from democracies. Leadership transitions are not just a formality, since literally everyone is a contender for the throne, if he can muster enough force behind him. The infighting that follows the deaths of senior people is hugely disruptive.

    Whereas invasions are hugely expensive. There was a time when an invasion of Iran would have made sense. 800 years ago, we could have gotten away with any number of things no Western ruler can do today. Using today’s weaponry and 12th century mores, we could pacify Iran with an American body count under 3 digits and a budget well under $1b. In fact, the war would largely be self-financing, as wars of that era largely had to be. But that’s water under the bridge.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Jack D
    , @istevefan
  232. Parisian says:
    @Ozymandias

    I’ve never written here. I thought (and still think it’s most likely) that Sailker is one of the more famous in these parts. And this post was very interesting. The two I used to use most often were Alrenous and Spandrell, Alrenous is the brightest of all, but Spandrell also had a very smart commentarisat. I still read his Twitter because he’s got such a sense of humour, but Twitter threw Alrenous off because he said ‘something too edgy’, but I don’t know what that was. A shame, he did good Twitter posts too. “Education realist” is interesting, and I hope she’ll respond to my post to her regarding Allyson and Taylor (and other cinema-related things, she seems to know a lot), but otherwise, the ‘subtle charm’ of this commentariat has been observed.

  233. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    Go fuck yourself.

    Hey, at least you finally came out and said something straight-up rather than dancing around with all your passive-aggressive obfuscating.

    You go fuck yourself too, asshole.

    I’m the first generation in four that hasn’t been half a world away in some war or another.

    Nice. I like the way you graft yourself on to a military tradition you have no part of. No generation goes to war. Select parts of it go to war.

    On the other hand, the empire won’t leave unless forced, but our country would if/when we regain our sovereignty.

    Utter bullshit. The empire is a big part of what prevents us from having sovereignty.

    It doesn’t matter what your feelings are about the embassy. It was there and it was attacked.

    It wasn’t attacked. There was a protest/riot by a crowd of Iraqis (you know – the actual people who live there and ostensibly own that country) who hate us and don’t want us there. Yankee go home is not exactly a new sentiment.

    The imagery of Saigon, Tehran, and Benghazi – and what it represented – needed to be repudiated.

    Imagery? How about reality. The way to avoid being humiliated in places like Saigon, Tehran, and Benghazi is to stop fucking around in the internal affairs of places like Vietnam, Iran, and Libya.

    You are a stupid asshat.

  234. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    We’re trying to have a conversation.

    Indeed. Which is why we don’t need your supercillious simpering, you idiotic clown.

  235. @The Wild Geese Howard

    Lol. As if those actually exist on an organic level.

  236. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara

    You have to make this point

    You don’t have to make any point. You can a) make a point, b) not comment, or c) make a fool of yourself.

  237. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Assassinations are cheap.

    Which is precisely why two can play at that game.

    You make good points, but how’s this strategy working out in Afghanistan?

    If you haven’t read Andrew Cockburn’s short essay The Kingpin Strategy, I highly recommend it. It makes all the points I could, in much better prose.

    • Replies: @Anon
  238. anarchyst says:

    In the push for “rights”, we were told that all homosexuals wanted was “to be tolerated” and shown “respect”.

    However, that attitude has turned out to have negative ramifications. The claim was that all homosexuals wanted was to be “tolerated”…however nothing could be further from the truth…

    Sad to say, “tolerance” has morphed into demands for not only “acceptance”, but deference, to the whims of homosexuals, without regards for the rights of heterosexuals with differing beliefs.

    When homosexuals purposely target a Christian-run bakery or other business, making demands for not only “acceptance”, but using the “civil-rights” laws, forcing the owner to go against his principles, THAT, my friends is tyranny, under guise of “civil-rights”.

    Using the “civil-rights” laws to force business owners into actions that go against their basic beliefs is tyranny of the highest order, and has no place in American society. It is interesting to note that, in these cases where homosexuals wanted to “prove a point”, they bypassed many bakeries who would accede to their wishes and give them what they desire.

    As an aside, muslim bakers who refused to bake homosexual-themed cakes were NOT targeted for “civil-rights” violations—double standard, indeed.

    This kind of behavior garners no favors with most decent people and furthers resolve against militant homosexuals who want not only toleration, but total “in your face” acceptance of their “lifestyle”–something that some people find that does not “square” with their beliefs.

    It appears that the success of “equal rights” for homosexuals has renewed a push to “normalize” other behaviors, such as “transsexuality”, “cross-dressing”, and other “gender fluidity” behaviors.

    There is even a push by pedophiles and their advocates to redefine (decriminalize and normalize) their behavior, renaming it “minor-attracted adults” rather than the perversion that it is presently defined as. The “slippery slope” started with the normalization of homosexuality, and has degenerated into the demands for acceptance of every form of human dysfunction.

    “Live and let live” used to be a staple of American society, but was eviscerated with every “protected group” using the so-called “civil-rights” laws to force others to not only tolerate them, but accept them. Not good…

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Parisian
  239. SFG says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    Turing, Michelangelo, Socrates…

    I actually agree with you that encouraging it is a bad thing, but by itself it doesn’t prevent contributions to society. If anything it makes it slightly more likely given the lack of need to spend time on raising children.

    Probably it gets really dangerous when you combine it with sexual liberation–you have two guys with male sex drives (what woman would invent the glory hole?) and STDs spread really fast (see: AIDS). Before that, though, who cares about a few effeminate ‘confirmed bachelors’?

    • Replies: @SBaker
  240. SFG says:
    @Stephen Dodge

    You can beat up 70-90 year olds? I imagine you’re that age yourself, but otherwise it’s not much of a boast.

    I’m not mocking the elderly–time and chance happeneth to us all. I’ll either be there myself someday, or dead.

  241. In the classical world, there was no term for “homosexual”. The Greeks had a charming myth that humans were originally two people in one, with two heads, four arms, four legs, etc. The gods were so jealous of their perfect happiness that they split them apart and ever after, people seek reunion with their lost halves, some with the opposite sex, some with the same gender. Roman law even allowed the husband of a woman to had been raped to sodomize the rapist, making the punishment fit the crime. Several of Rome’s greatest emperors were gay men.

    Ancient Judaism invented this morbid obsession with sexual orientation. In the creed of the Jews, the natural impulse to love another human, expressed through sex, became a prisoner of the counterfeit impulse to fixate upon, adore and worship an imaginary tribal deity. With emotional attachment, and its associated fears and anxieties, displaced from fellow humans to Yahweh, whose wiles only an elite caste of priests could interpret, the sexual drive itself was shackled to a bizarre assortment of imperatives, taboos and prohibitions.

    Sexual love became a beast to be tamed and neutered. Procreative sex was reshaped into a religious and racial duty. As unbridled sexuality might easily have undermined priestly supremacy, certain sexual practices – masturbation, homosexuality, etc. – were condemned as subversive of marriage and its procreative purpose. Sex, therefore, had to be had only within “divine” guidelines. Sexual dysfunction was assured, and the neurosis it created in the cult’s victims would provide the groundwork of a self-propagating, male-dominated hierarchical social order.

    Judaism bequeathed this unfortunate mix of ignorance, misogyny and intolerance to a wayward faction of its heretics eventually known to the civilized world as Christians. The plethora of rules and regulations of the Jews, designed to restrict, repress and otherwise regulate sexuality in the semi-nomadic barbarism of the Levant, would pass wholesale into the new. Romans, amused and then disgusted by the bizarre new cult, mocked the Christian god, saying he did not cut a very impressive figure as he was so strangely fixated on what people did with their private parts.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @Jack D
    , @Corvinus
  242. SBaker says:
    @anon

    The worst form of child abuse; call it an Epstein. The surgeons that perform the genital mutilation do it for the money; the muslins do it to degrade and abuse women.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  243. @Anonymous

    Every single Society considers violence something loathsome and repproachable

    LMAO

    Have you ever heard of a nation called Pakistan ? Or seen videos of their men at work in the streets beating and raping (often their own) women for wearing make-up, or accidentally showing an ankle ?

    Have you ever actually, in person, ever even MET, worked with, watched or listened to British Pakistani males in their aggressive, antagonistic, violent, contemptuous interactions with Whites, and with the normal customs and traditions of White Christian society ?

    I’m not convinced anybody on earth can actually be this ignorant for real. Therefore the chances are that you are simply a sad cretinous troll.

    But I’m not convinced of that either.

  244. SBaker says:
    @SFG

    Turing likely was queer, but I see no evidence that Socrates and Michelangelo were queers. Michelangelo had a fair number of girl friends based on a well documented account.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Anonymous
  245. anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    The more Middle Eastern oil costs the better. We know natural gas burning cars, thorium reactors and if needed making coal into diesel fuel can get our ass out of the Middle East. Cheap oil just keeps us on the Middle East tit.

    Lol, the 1970’s called, your talking points are expired.

    Oil isn’t burned to generate electricity at the utility level. Natgas is, and stationary power generation connected to a pipeline is a great use of natgas, not compressing it into tanks fueling cars. Coal conversion is what desperate countries do, it’s a really expensive and dirty way to make fuel. The Canadian tar sands are a mess.

    Thorium burning reactors are a good idea, but I don’t know what it will take to get them certified in the US.

    “Cheap oil”, lol, the reason oil is cheap isn’t OPEC, it’s US frackers.

    The US can’t get out of the middle east because AIPAC won’t let us, oil hasn’t a thing to do with it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  246. @Anonymous

    Why can’t a gay man be a great human being

    There is absolutely NO reason at all. But most of them simply have NOT been. Why is that ?

  247. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Decapitation strikes are great strategy if you can pull them off successfully. They work best as surprise opening moves in a war because once the war gets going both sides increase security and take special measures to protect their leaders. You can bet that Khameinei is sleeping in a deep bunker tonight. But even later, if the opportunity presents itself to hit a prominent target, you take it. Of course chicken shit Western politicians don’t like it because they don’t want to have to sleep in bunkers and would rather let 18 year olds from flyover states get their legs blown off instead of them.

    Iran can mumble about retaliation but Trump plays according to Chicago rules – you kill one of ours, we kill ten of yours. That’s the message he was trying to send when he retaliated for the dead American contractor. Iran was so used to Americans being pussified that they didn’t understand the message clearly and came back with the embassy attack, always a favorite strategy of theirs. So Trump came back with taking out their top leadership.

    Hopefully, Iran has the message now. They will “retaliate” because they have to for domestic political reasons but it will be some carefully calibrated relatively low level retaliation (e.g. torpedoing an oil tanker) because if they do something big then Trump blows up their Presidential palace or flattens their nuclear reactors or something like that. There is only so much that they can move underground.

  248. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I get your point, though, about keeping the Ayatollahs in perpetual fear of assassination.

    I think though that what you may not be aware of is the extent to which Iran is not actually a dictatorship. I’ve tried to study their politics and it is very confusing, but the influence of the Ayatollah’s position depends very strongly (among other things) on his not looking like a coward, no matter what his actual feelings or opinions are– what matters is how they are perceived.

  249. anarchyst says:
    @SBaker

    The only way to stop circumcision is to redefine it as “male genital mutilation”-the proper definition of this horrific, barbaric procedure.
    When anyone talks about circumcision, I correct them by saying: “You mean male genital mutilation”. At first they are shocked, horrified and confused, but when I explain to them that it is no different than “female genital mutilation”, because a healthy, natural-growing body part is removed without medical necessity, I can usually get my point across.
    Let the jews and muslims whine over the prohibition of this barbaric act. It is long overdue to outlaw this unnecessary procedure in the USA.
    Jews and muslims that insist on this procedure being performed can go to Israel or a muslim country to have it done.
    As an aside, jewish “mohels” who perform this procedure, conclude the operation by sucking the baby’s penis…sick…and a good way to transmit STDs. Maybe that is why so many jews are so f#cked up.

    • Replies: @Parisian
    , @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  250. SBaker says:
    @Stephen Dodge

    I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. I’m male, she was female, and that was 40 years ago. The point was that females are often presented in movies today as the physical superior of men. The female police officer had the same attitude. It is a ridiculous assertion. We weren’t fighting.

  251. anon[221] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kibernetika

    Sissy Boy is a great name for the next Marvel Universe character.

    Merchandising!

    “Gender ambiguity sold separately”.

  252. anon[221] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    American men are getting weaker , could be due to falling testosterone levels caused by increased obesity combined with less physically demanding jobs

    There are a lot, a whole lot, of estrogenic /estrogen mimics in the environment. Bisphenols are a biggie, they are in plastic bottles (water, juice, tea, soda), that Nalgene bottle on the next desk, in plastic wrap, in the liner of food take-out boxes, in some plastic food storage containers, and so forth. Then there’s the estrongenics / estradiol in surface waters like the Rhine or the Everglades, with fish & reptiles showing weird sex organs. Etc.

    The falling T levels could be more affected by chemicals than by obesity, and in fact the overweight – obesity could be an effect or result of decreased T in men as much as a cause. Oh, and likely linked to the ongoing decline in sperm counts as well.

    Hand strength is a good proxy. There’s a reason doctors want to shake your hand at least once a year.

    • Replies: @SFG
  253. res says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m not questioning the data, Res, but if these people start the y-axis at something other than 0 (why? to visually exaggerate the results somewhat?)

    The usual reason is to maximize the amount of detail we can see in the range where the data actually occurs. We can argue about whether that is good or bad. In this case though, the y-axis goes from 10-60 (actually starts at about 8). Going to 0 would not be that big a difference (but personally I think they should have done so). If the y-axis went from 50-60 you would have a much better point. As it is, it sounds like nitpicking to me.

    but worse yet, use the units of kg instead of Newtons for force, I won’t read any more on it from them.

    For whatever reason the convention is to measure grip strength in kg (or lbs). You also sometimes see mmHg, psi, or Newtons. The kilogram-force unit is nonstandard though:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram-force
    It is derived from force = mass * acceleration
    where acceleration is assumed to be gravity at 9.8 m/s^2
    So if you want the Newton value just multiply by 9.8

    I suspect they use kg and lb because they are more intuitive. Visualize lifting a weight with your grip. Perhaps early grip strength measurements were done like that–which would explain measuring it that way.

    Force in SI units ought to be in Newtons. I could see for a weight force, using Newtons, but this is stupid.

    Maybe make a little more effort to understand something before calling it stupid?

    P.S. I was a bit disappointed that was all you had to say about an information packed comment. Surely there are more interesting observations to be made.

  254. Hibernian says:
    @SBaker

    There’s the small detail that one of Michelangelo’s two main claims to fame was a nude male statue. Maybe he was bisexual.

  255. Hibernian says:
    @Jack D

    The problem with Chicago rules is they send one of ours to the hospital, we send 10 of theirs to the morgue, they send 100 of ours to the morgue, we send 1000 of theirs to the morgue… … eventually they pull another 911 or we carpet bomb their entire country, then it goes nuclear.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  256. @Jack D

    Iran can mumble about retaliation but Trump plays according to Chicago rules – you kill one of ours, we kill ten of yours. That’s the message he was trying to send when he retaliated for the dead American contractor. Iran was so used to Americans being pussified that they didn’t understand the message clearly and came back with the embassy attack, always a favorite strategy of theirs. So Trump came back with taking out their top leadership.

    I doubt that’s a message that will take. Because Trump’s inclination is to do one-off strikes and then back off. Over the past decade, Iranian actions have killed more Americans than Israelis. The principal reason is the Israeli response to Iranian provocations is to send a dozen missiles at the Iranians for every one the Iranians volley at them. Israel has hit ammo dumps, equipment stores and military housing. Whereas the US has fired one missile at the Iranians for every dozen missiles it’s received. Until Trump begins destroying Iran military equipment and stores in massive quantities, thereby also reducing the regime’s ability to defend itself against internal malcontents, in addition to cutting its offensive capabilities down to size, Iran will continue rolling the dice with missile attacks. Sleeping in bunkers is an inconvenience, but the fact is Trump is philosophically opposed to Israeli-style interdiction and deterrence, and I expect the Iranians understand that.

    TEL AVIV: Five days ago, an undisclosed intelligence agency intercepted a telephone call made by the head of Iran’s Quds Force, Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani, in which he was heard ordering his proxies in Iraq to attack the U.S embassy in Baghdad, as well as other Israeli and American targets, with the aim of taking hostages, Israeli sources say.

    It’s unclear whether this was a lapse in tradecraft on the part of the usually savvy Soleimani or whether the notorious Iranian military leader’s phone calls were being routinely intercepted. Nor is it clear whether it was the US or another foe of Iran that made the intercept. Regardless, the intelligence seems to have led directly to Soleimani’s killing yesterday, which has thrown the Mideast into uproar.

  257. @Jack D

    Fact is, from the excerpt I quoted above, it took an attempt by the Iranians to recreate the 1979 Teheran embassy hostage crisis in Baghdad for Trump to order the decapitation strike. It’s a one-off, and it won’t deter the Iranians for very long. Already, they’re firing new missiles at US military facilities, some of which will eventually get lucky. The Israelis don’t get as many of these incidents because the people doing the firing understand they will personally be killed, regardless of where the missiles land. It would not surprise me if some of them fire missiles ostensibly targeted at Israel in some other direction while claiming mechanical malfunction.

  258. @res

    If the y-axis went from 50-60 you would have a much better point. As it is, it sounds like nitpicking to me.

    That’s exactly why there was no point in lopping off the first 10 kg (of “force”). I still have to visualize the bottom somewherer down there.

    I have an engineering background, Res, so you don’t need to spell out Newton’s laws to me. It’s not like the confusion between lb-mass and lb-force. In this case, using kg for force is stupid. Yes, I’ve seen tire pressure gauges with this garbage on em too (kg/m^2), but that’s asinine too, as kPa are the appropriate unit for pressure in SI (kilo for the values of tire pressure, at least).

    That was information-packed, I suppose, but it’s just the graph that caught my eye. I know you didn’t make that graph, so don’t take it personally. The rest just wasn’t interesting to me (again, no offense), other than as a straight line for International Jew’s hilarious reply.

    • Replies: @res
  259. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    You guys really get defensive whenever anybody points out that you are arm-chair warriors. The urbane sophistication goes out the window and all of a sudden it’s “Go Fuck Yourself!” when somebody calls you out on it.

    You chickenhawks are pathetic and ridiculous.

  260. @res

    BTW, I will grant you that your comment was more relevant to the topic of Mr. Sailer’s post than mine, by a long shot.* Therefore, I apologize for the nitpicking, but bad graphs are a personal pet peeve.

    .

    * You have that yellow star. It’s gotta mean something.

  261. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    AIPAC and its congeners and allies back our keep-us-in-the-Middle-East strategy because it means the Budweiser swilling sportsball fans would be inconvenienced by problems over there and will therefore support us staying there. Many are unchurched, or members of churches where CZ writ does not run: many are indifferent to what the Jewish line is, and the Jews in media prudently let them alone. They mostly do not hate Jews or Zionism but they vaguely figure all that Holocaust stuff might be a little overrated, they just don’t care that much either way. As long as the beer and sportsball continue, the heat and AC run in the house and they can afford gas and groceries they are pretty indifferent to everything else.

    The fracking boom will only last so long because the oil market is global and we will and do export a lot of it. Nat gas, which is a byproduct of the oil fracking, is of much less value because it is less easily exported and the pipelines supplying homes and businesses are saturated. We could be running a good chunk of the automobile fleet on it, but we don’t because oil is cheap and convenient. A very short sighted premise.

    If the pump price of gasoline reflected the true costs of keeping the cheap oil flowing-including at least seven or eight of our ten nuclear aircraft carriers, the B-1 fleet (since it has no nuclear mission anymore), and big chunks of the Army and USMC….I’d have to buy (finance) a Tesla tout de suite, or walk to work.

  262. istevefan says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Whereas invasions are hugely expensive.

    I guess you ascertained that from the past 18 years.

    There was a time when an invasion of Iran would have made sense.

    Was that about the time when the simultaneous invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were considered to have made sense?

    Wouldn’t taking on Iran, without an invasion, be akin to an admission by Uncle Sam that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were completely unnecessary?

  263. istevefan says:
    @Johann Ricke

  264. @Chrisnonymous

    Be that as it may, some of us still can’t really throw overhand.

  265. Jack D says:
    @Hibernian

    Chicago rules only work if you have such overwhelming force that the other side is afraid to retaliate – otherwise you just have the “cycle of violence”. And the US is not interested in bombing Iranian civilians anyway. Of course if the Iranians misjudge us and kill a lot of Americans, we may take an expansive view of what constitutes a military target – see Dresden, see Hiroshima, etc.

  266. @Hibernian

    Good point.
    I wonder (say) how many people, randomly selected, could tell you who was on what side in WW II….

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  267. @animalogic

    For bonus points, get Romania and Bulgaria correct for WWI and WWII each.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  268. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anarchyst

    Sad to say, “tolerance” has morphed into demands for not only “acceptance”, but deference, to the whims of homosexuals, without regards for the rights of heterosexuals with differing beliefs.

    Demanding that we celebrate homosexuality is only a part of it. We are also not permitted to point out that sodomy involves very real and very serious risks of physical injury, in some cases permanent injury.

    I should point out that this applies also to heterosexual sodomy, which is unfortunately also increasingly becoming normalised.

    So it’s not just a matter of some people finding male homosexual practices distasteful. They are actively dangerous to one’s health.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  269. Hibernian says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Romania Allied WWI, Axis WWII; Bulgaria Central Powers WWI, Axis WWII (Allied with Germany in both wars.)

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  270. BB753 says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Has it ocurred to you that number two, a military man, was becoming a threat to the number one and other ayatollahs? And that perhaps Khamenei is faking outrage? Basically, this seems like a situation where Iran, in return from backing off from Iraq, as advised by Russia, asked for the US to get rid of a troublesome Soleiman for them. Both sides win.

  271. Art Deco says:
    @Observator

    Ancient Judaism invented this morbid obsession with sexual orientation.

    The fun never stops on these comment boards.

  272. Art Deco says:
    @Hibernian

    Both Roumania and Bulgaria switched sides in 1944. Bulgaria refused to send troops to Russia and also protected it’s domestic Jewish population.

  273. Anonymous[154] • Disclaimer says:
    @SBaker

    Turing likely was queer, but I see no evidence that Socrates and Michelangelo were queers. Michelangelo had a fair number of girl friends based on a well documented account.

    From Socrates follower, Plato:

    And so it was; for he came, and caused much laughter, because each of us who were seated [155c] made room for him by pushing hard at his neighbor so as to have him sitting beside himself, until at either end of the seat one had to stand up, and we tumbled the other off sideways; and he came and sat down between me and Critias. But here, my friend, I began to feel perplexed, and my former confidence in looking forward to a quite easy time in talking with him had been knocked out of me. And when, on Critias telling him that it was I who knew the cure, [155d] he gave me such a look with his eyes as passes description, and was just about to plunge into a question, and when all the people in the wrestling-school surged round about us on every side—then, ah then, my noble friend, I saw inside his cloak and caught fire, and could possess myself no longer; and I thought none was so wise in love-matters as Cydias,1 who in speaking of a beautiful boy recommends someone to “beware of coming as a fawn before the lion, and being seized as his portion of flesh”; for I too felt [155e] I had fallen a prey to some such creature. However, when he had asked me if I knew the cure for headache, I somehow contrived to answer that I knew.

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plat.+Charm.+155&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0176

    Socrates was so crazy for boys, that he almost lost his mind with Charmides. I would not recommend, if you have a male teenage child, to be near a guy like Socrates. It would be dangerous ! LOL

    A poem by Michelangelo to his beloved Tommaso Cavalieri:

    Xxx. to tommaso de’ cavalieri.
    LOVE THE LIGHT-GIVER.

    Veggio co’ bei vostri occhi.

    With your fair eyes a charming light I see,
    For which my own blind eyes would peer in vain;
    Stayed by your feet the burden I sustain
    Which my lame feet find all too strong for me;
    Wingless upon your pinions forth I fly;
    Heavenward your spirit stirreth me to strain;
    E’en as you will, I blush and blanch again,
    Freeze in the sun, burn ‘neath a frosty sky.
    Your will includes and is the lord of mine;
    Life to my thoughts within your heart is given;
    My words begin to breathe upon your breath:
    Like to the moon am I, that cannot shine
    Alone; for lo! our eyes see nought in heaven
    Save what the living sun illumineth.

    https://allpoetry.com/Xxx.-to-tommaso-de’-cavalieri.

  274. SFG says:
    @Altai

    You know ten years ago, she’d have her choice of boyfriends who were really excited to find a girl who liked all the same things they did, and marry some rich techie.

  275. SFG says:
    @anon

    They could have a synergistic effect (bad in this case of course). Chemicals encourage the development of fat, fat converts testosterone to estrogen (this is one of the reasons obesity is a risk factor for endometrial cancer) as do the endocrine disrupters, and so on.

  276. Jack D says:
    @Observator

    Romans, amused and then disgusted by the bizarre new cult, mocked the Christian god, saying he did not cut a very impressive figure as he was so strangely fixated on what people did with their private parts.

    “He who laughs last, laughs best.”

    Who had the last laugh, the Romans or the Christians?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  277. Parisian says:
    @anarchyst

    It’s definitely a barbaric procedure and one that was successfully imported to most of the U.S., maybe all of it by now. Although there was an article about NYC Jews who are stopping doing it. Probably very few.

    I definitely agree that male circumcision is one of the reasons why so many Jews are fucked-up, and more specifically, that they think in certain ways, as in their own failures at hygiene. I asked someone, though, about this, and apparently female circumcision is more radical in general, except…when male circumcision (‘mutilation’ is fine with me too) is done so badly that occasionally the boy was brought up as a girl. In cases of phimosis, when the foreskin is so tight it can not be pulled back, a tiny snip is okay. I had a friend have this done, because it’s nearly impossible to keep clean when it’s that tight. Otherwsie, I don’t know why anybody would want it or do it. My brother had it done when he was in his 20s, which I thought absurd, but he was somewhat phimotic, and it could have just been snipped. But they did the whole thing. Still, not as bad as doing it to babies, who cannot decide.

    I loathe Leviticus anyway, where there is talk of that, and also of those laws forbidding foods, not jsut pork but shellfish. I had lunch in 2017 with a Brooklyn Jew who told me that shrimp are ‘insects’.

    In The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon describes the ‘curious practice of circumcision’, and calls the Jews ‘that insular and sullen race’. I find them so, as well as never being attracted physically to them.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  278. Parisian says:

    Since some here have the ridiculous idea that I and others ‘have an agenda’ that wants famous people to be homosexual (which is dumb, because they either are or not), some others are Rudoph Nureyev, the greatest ballet dancer of the 20th century, although most of the biggest stars of companies are straight. Erik Bruhn, the Dane, was almost as famous as Nureyev, and was his lover. One absurd screed was that no A-list Hollywood stars were homosexual, but even Rock Hudson alone proves that, although there were many more; some were more likely bisexual with adjacent affairs to their marriages, which were definitely necessary to stay inside the laws of the studios. I never liked Rock Hudson, didn’t know why he was a star, but he died of AIDS and had been said to be gay as far back as I remember. Lesbian abound too, I won’t re=mention the ones people couldn’t stand to know about, but Jodi Foster is definitely A-List, doesn’t matter if I can’t stand her, and that in Maverick it was painful to see her kiss James Garner. Lily Tomlin even talks about it all the time. Ramon Novarro, as I mentioned before, was a screaming queen, and was murdered with a nickel-plated dildo by 2 hustler-brothers. He’s been A-list and starred with Garbo in ‘Mata Hari’.

    Obviously, Anderson Cooper is totally out as gay, talks about it frequently. There was a lot of it in Britain, as with John Gielgud. Leonardo da Vinci was in court for ‘sodomy’ when he was young in Florence; that’s in a book I read last year called Young Leonardo by Isbouts and Brown. i never heard of this before.

    Of course, Tchaikovsky, that’s hardly a mere rumour, and that was not a B-List composer by any means. Maurice Ravel as well, hardly a B-List composer. Debussy was not, and Faure was found irresistible by all the women.

    Someone wrote ‘Turing may have been gay’. Jesus. Some people are just poorly-educated or haven’t read anything. The scandals of Turing’s torture is documented everywhere. Okay, so some people can’t stand it that K. Hepburn was a Lesbian.

    My favourite of the older actresses, Catherine Deneuve, is as heterosexual as they come, although she might have experimented, given her expansive personality. In the mid-90s, a bunch of lesbians tried to start a dyke magazine called ‘Deneuve’, she took them to court and had it thrown out. She’s also one of the few to speak out on the totalitarian aspect of the #MeToo Movement, although she was mostly ignored.

    Yes, there were some B-listers like Tab Hunter. but he was a big star in the 50s, despite his lack of talent.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  279. Parisian says:
    @Parisian

    I’m mainly pissed because 2 people seemed to imply that I am an LGBTQ person, which I am certainly not. The NYC center is a block away, and I go there every two years to vote. LGBTQ is not really even about gay men by now, it’s about degenerate new spinoffs of ‘trans’. While I’m still here, Marcel Proust, about as A-List a write as you can find, was definitely homosexual, and had an affair with Reynaldo Hahn, I think a minor composer. I’ve read all of Proust, though, and he has some S & M stories in it, mainly about Charlus, but also the Prince des Guermantes and the violinist Morel.

    This is just for the record. I don’t actually care if ‘Art Deco’ and the more long-winded asshole think I’m into LGBTQ. It’s bad enough to have to see transpeople all the time.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  280. Anonymous[154] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Who had the last laugh, the Romans or the Christians?

    Who will have the last laugh, christian superstitions or the greek rationalism ?

  281. Jack D says:
    @anarchyst

    Only a handful of ultra-Orthodox mohels do this. Most do not.

    Religious freedom is not absolute but generally we should allow people to observe their ancient religious customs within their own families even if they are not 100% in accordance with Current Year thinking. Nowadays, we would never allow a business to have a rule that only unmarried males can serve as officers but we allow the Church do to this. If circumcision was purely a matter of health and medical science weighed conclusively against it (in fact it is a somewhat mixed bag) then it would be fine to outlaw it, but it’s not just that, it’s a deeply rooted religious practice. If you don’t want to circumcise your own children, that’s up to you but don’t tell other people how to practice their religion. It would be strange if the Supreme Court said that abortion falls within the realm of family privacy but the ancient religious rite of male circumcision does not.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Parisian
  282. res says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I have an engineering background, Res, so you don’t need to spell out Newton’s laws to me.

    1. I had no way of knowing that. Now I do ; )
    2. You are not the only audience for my comment even if it is directed at you. I think it’s good to try to make comments understandable by a range of readers when possible.
    3. I have an engineering background as well. Issues like this happen often enough that I think it is misguided to ignore the rest of the material (especially since you did not know they were just following the convention of their field, arguably technically incorrect as it may be). I am sensitive to this because I do some cross-discipline work and it is important to be able to communicate using the language of other fields. Not just call the terminology stupid and ignore the information the field has to offer.

    As far as the graph axis, in case it wasn’t obvious, I actually agree with you. It’s just that for all of us that have truncated axes as a peeve we don’t really need to have it pointed out over and over. Unless it is an egregious case which really is misleading. Which as I said, I don’t think this was.

  283. anarchyst says:
    @Jack D

    The problem is that an infant does not have a choice when the parents agree to male genital mutilation. Male genital mutilation has morphed from being a religious practice to one where the false premise that for health reasons, male genital mutilation is necessary.
    If adults want to undergo the procedure, I have no problem with that, but mutilating infant penises is just wrong.
    Informed consent must always be the norm. Infants cannot consent…or give consent.

  284. Parisian says:
    @Jack D

    I recall Abe Rosenthal coming out strongly against female circumcision in the NYTimes about 15 years ago. That’s certainly meddling in other religion’s business. SCOTUS won’t stop male circumcision, because most Americans believe in it anyway, and even often think it is the practice of ‘higher classes’, which it is not.. The Romans allowed Jews to do it, according to Gibbon, although that was probably a distancing mechanism in a general sense..

  285. Anonymous[352] • Disclaimer says:
    @anarchyst

    Oh come on, there’s no comparison between male and female circumcision. The latter is equivalent to chopping the dick in half.

    Anti-circ activists are becoming as hysterical and annoying as anti-smoking activists were 20 years ago.

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @anarchyst
  286. anarchyst says:
    @Anonymous

    Removing a healthy body part without medical necessity is NEVER ethical, PERIOD.
    Both male and female genital mutilation should be outlawed worldwide.

  287. Corvinus says:
    @Observator

    “Ancient Judaism invented this morbid obsession with sexual orientation.”

    LOL, no. It never ceases to amaze me how people on this fine blog try to find unique ways to blame Jews on everything “wrong” in the world.

  288. Jack D says:
    @Parisian

    I definitely agree that male circumcision is one of the reasons why so many Jews are fucked-up,

    Maybe this makes sense for a European, but in America circumcision is very common and not just among Jews. In certain regions (the Northeast) circumcision rates are as high as 80% (or at least were until recently). So maybe this explains why Americans are fucked-up too?

    I had lunch in 2017 with a Brooklyn Jew who told me that shrimp are ‘insects’.

    While shrimp and lobsters are not insects per se, they are closely related to insects. They are a lot more closely related to insects (and to scorpions) than they are to fish or other things that Westerners eat. Some people, and not just Jews, call them “the insects of the sea”. Crustaceans and insects are both subphyla of the invertebrate phylum Arthropoda. I think you are confused because in the mind of a Westerner, “shrimp” is “good eats” while insects are in the “disgusting” category but this is purely a cultural thing. To an Orthodox Jew they are equally disgusting and in some cultures they are equally appetizing. (Leviticus BTW permits the eating of certain locusts (grasshoppers) but since no one knows anymore which are the “kosher” types of locusts Ashkenazi Jews don’t eat them any more – apparently some Yemenite Jews still do or did until recently).

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Parisian
  289. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Jack D

    While shrimp and lobsters are not insects per se, they are closely related to insects. They are a lot more closely related to insects (and to scorpions) than they are to fish or other things that Westerners eat.

    They’re all bugs.

  290. Parisian says:

    Yes, it could be that’s one of the reasons Americans are so fucked up too, but American Christians have much more puritanism than do Europeans, so it wouldn’t be just the Jewish influence, although that could be where some of them learned it. The foreskin is very much an erogenous zone in itself, although removal obviously does not usually get in the way of sexual functioning. Circumcision removes an extra source of pleasure, since the foreskin is very sensitive, although I’ve read that that’s arguable too. This might be something considered desirable in both Jews and Christians and maybe others as well. It’s like what someone above wrote about the Romans and their astonishment at Christians being so concerned with their genitals, sort of a paradox since the uncircumcised Romans (including current ones) just used them with abandon, throwing them around when they felt like it, but weren’t fixated on them as defining so much of morality. That non-circumcision causes more masturbation is even something some believe’ it seems pretty prevalent to me everywhere, but I don’t know. In the West, female circumcision is not an issue, although I suppose it’s happened occasionally. But I’ve only heard of it as common among Muslims. I just read that it was done to Aayan Hirsi Ali at age 5. Catholics definitely are not as intolerant of pleasure as Protestants though.

    There are other matters of preference based on aesthetics as well as religion, but that’s probably not good to get into. I do tend to agree with Anarchyst that it should be done when the person is old enough to choose, although I still don’t know why my brother did such a total version of it, and am not about to ask him. I wouldn’t choose to have sources of pleasure taken away–and the foreskin definitely keeps the glans more sensitive–but I don’t know of any religion short of the various paganisms that would care to promote sexual pleasure nearly so often as to restrict it–which comes from the necessity of not prioritizing it due to economic, as well as other matters of society and life which have to be taken care of more urgently: Physical pleasure in itself, without the purpose of procreation, is a luxury and gets more and more so.) Hirsi Ali’s being 5 doesn’t mean she was allowed a choice for FGM, and I think no one ever chooses that voluntarily.

    Very interesting about the ‘insects’. I would probably not have too much problem eating a lot of different insect delicacies if they were cooked; wormlike things still alive seem repulsive, but I could probably eat grasshoppers if some chef knew how to do something with them. I definitely think of Scampi as ‘good eats’:) Couldn’t do without roast pork either. I wouldn’t have any idea what ‘glatt meat’ was if I hadn’t seen a store on Kings Highway. So you would just find me *unclean* in several ways!

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  291. Parisian says:
    @Jack D

    Somehow the ‘reply’ didn’t take, Jack D., so you might not have seen my answer to you below (or above.) Thanks.

  292. Parisian says:
    @dfordoom

    I think heterosexual sodomy has been done for millennia, maybe more often in cosmopolitan situations, but still all the time. Some girls have told me they love it, and one wanted me to do it because she thought she was going to get pregnant, but I wasn’t interested at that moment. The NYCBallet dancer and NYReviewofBooks writer Toni Bentley’s The Surrender is all about her preference for it, and she also knows exactly how to do it without even the slightest discomfort. Admittedly, as a dancer she might have more techniques at this.

    I’ve noticed that a lot of people on the far right think all but conventional coitus was not everywhere ‘before those awful 60s’, but that’s total bullthis Women and men have not only engaged in sodomy, but have been sucking each other forever, just maybe not talking about it so much. It’s only pornography on film that is relatively new.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  293. Parisian says:
    @anarchyst

    This is exactly the same as black civil rights, and what is expected of others in regard to them. But that’s sort of an automatic thing, reducible to ‘that feels good, I want some more’, hence blacks demanding much more than ‘equal rights’, and now it’s transgenders whose idea of ‘equal rights’ is to talk about their ‘feelings about being trans’ all the time.

    Lesson being: Either be successful at cynically repressing all upstarts who are part of any kind of underclass, or don’t be at all surprised when they want to start being rulers in exactly the same mode as their overmen once were. America is the worst, since it’s so polyglot and sloppy. European nations are much more ‘raced’ themselves, although they’ve begun to fuck up hugely too with the Muslim business.

  294. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Parisian

    I’ve noticed that a lot of people on the far right think all but conventional coitus was not everywhere ‘before those awful 60s’, but that’s total bullthis Women and men have not only engaged in sodomy, but have been sucking each other forever, just maybe not talking about it so much.

    That’s true, but oral sex and sodomy are worlds apart. Sodomy can and does cause physical damage. It’s fine if you don’t mind having your rectum surgically repaired on a regular basis, and you don’t mind that eventually you’ll do permanent damage. But maybe having to wear adult diapers doesn’t bother some people. It’s also a great way to guarantee you’ll get some nasty little infections. It’s probably the one sexual practice that is sufficiently dangerous to justify attempts to strongly discourage it.

    Oral sex by contrast is about the safest sex practice that exists, apart from masturbation. Of course there are dissident rightists who’d like to ban both on the grounds that if it feels good it’s wicked. The far right is full of Puritan nutjobs who are horrified by both sex and women.

  295. Anonymous[352] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s probably a connection between prevalence of circumcision and the popularity of anal sex.

    Removing the foreskin makes the penis less sensitive and so presumably makes vaginal sex less enjoyable. The greater force and friction involved in anal sex would therefore be more attractive to a circumcised man than to an uncircumcised one.

  296. The far right is full of Puritan nutjobs who are horrified by both sex and women.

    Such as?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  297. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Jim Don Bob

    The far right is full of Puritan nutjobs who are horrified by both sex and women.

    Such as?

    Take a look at the recent slew of posts on UR on the subject of pornography. Dissident rightists who pretty much think that all sex that is not for the purpose of procreation is wicked and sinful.

    Which is fine if you want to live by that moral code in your own life, but these guys are keen to impose it on everyone.

    • Replies: @Parisian
  298. Parisian says:
    @dfordoom

    The fact that it is used for procreation is somehow the reason it cannot be executed anywhere else (I guess, plus just general guilt about keen pleasure.) These ‘dissident rightists’ are not different from the various Christian sects–including some of the mainstream ones, but not Catholics, who will go the other way and say contraception is ‘preventing a natural thing’ (or they used to), but are usually fine with just fornicating and going to confession; they don’t resist it nearly as much. And of course, there are many of these very strict religious sects on the far-far right.

    But there are the ones who say it should not be used for anything other than procreation, who then interpret it (for themselves purely) to mean that ‘there should only be monogamy’. Whereas those purely monogamous couples fuck all the time, and 99% of the time it’s not for babies. I’m not sure I’ve even ever met those couples who never engage in sex (forget all about the ‘perversions’ like heterosexual fellatio and cunnillingus) except for procreation, although I’ve known a few who preached it like crazy and would never have thought of practising it. Verging on bipolar.

  299. @Parisian

    Yes, it could be that’s one of the reasons Americans are so fucked up too, but American Christians have much more puritanism than do Europeans, so it wouldn’t be just the Jewish influence, although that could be where some of them learned it.

    Puritanism *is* Jewish influence.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS