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From the New York Times:

Trump Seeks to End Visa Program He Blamed for Allowing New York Attack Suspect Into the U.S.
By PETER BAKER NOV. 1, 2017

WASHINGTON — President Trump … called on Congress to cancel a longstanding immigration program that he blamed for allowing the man into the country.

… “I am today starting the process of terminating the diversity lottery program,” he said. “I’m going to ask Congress to immediately initiate work to get rid of this program.”

“Diversity lottery — sounds nice,” he added. “It’s not nice. It’s not good. It hasn’t been good. We’ve been against it.” He added: “We have to get much less politically correct. We’re so politically correct that we’re afraid to do anything.”

The president also denounced “chain migration,” meaning the ability of immigrants to sponsor family members, and promised to toughen sentences against terrorists without specifying how.

The NYT leaves out that Trump said that preliminary investigation found that the terrorist was listed as the contact person for 23 family member immigrants.

Mr. Trump’s comments came hours after he blamed the attack on Senator Chuck Schumer, the senior lawmaker from New York and the Democratic leader in the upper chamber, because he supported the diversity visa program enacted 27 years ago. …

“President Trump, where is your leadership?” Mr. Schumer asked. “President Trump, instead of politicizing and dividing America, which he always seems to do at times of national tragedy, should be bringing us together and focusing on the real solution — antiterrorism funding — which he proposed cutting in his most recent budget.”

At a news conference updating the public about the attack, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York chided Mr. Trump for his Twitter posts, saying they “were not helpful,” were not “even accurate” and “tended to point fingers and politicize the situation.”

“You play into the hands of the terrorists to the extent that you disrupt and divide and frighten people in this society,” said Mr. Cuomo, who is a Democrat. “And the tone now should be the exact opposite by all officials on all levels. This is about unification, this is about solidarity.”

The diversity visa program cited by Mr. Trump was created in 1990 by a bill supported by Mr. Schumer, passed by bipartisan votes and signed into law by a Republican president, George Bush.

Democrats noted on Wednesday that Mr. Trump was quick to assail his political opponents and immigration policies less than 24 hours after the New York attack, even though his own White House declared it unseemly to talk about gun control policies in the immediate aftermath of the massacre in Las Vegas, in which a heavily armed American citizen shot and killed 58 people and injured hundreds of others.

I think it’s even-handed to say that Diversity Visa program is the Bump Stock loophole of immigration policy.

The suspect was identified as Sayfullo Saipov, who came to the United States in 2010 from Uzbekistan and has a green card that permits permanent legal residency. The Department of Homeland Security confirmed that he arrived through the diversity visa program.

The program creates a class of immigrants called “diversity immigrants” from countries with historically low rates of immigration to the United States.

In other words, this program service to build beachheads in the United States for long-term chain migration from countries like Uzbekistan that don’t have many people who would qualify to move to American on grounds of potential value to the American citizenry.

In his remarks, Mr. Trump stressed that he wanted “merit-based” immigration, suggesting that Mr. Saipov was let in without consideration about whether he had skills that could benefit the United States. In fact, the program requires potential applicants to have the equivalent of a high school education or have been employed for at least two years in jobs approved by the State Department.

So the Uzbek Uber driver was practically Enrico Fermi.

The attack on Mr. Schumer offered a timely way for Mr. Trump to change the subject from the special counsel investigation that unveiled its first criminal charges this week against three campaign advisers to Mr. Trump.

Trump’s Luck: it’s almost as if Trump has spent a lot of his life watching the news on television and has a rough sense of how often different kinds of events happen and adopts his platform accordingly. In contrast, The Establishment watches the same news, but they know what views are Appropriate to hold: e.g., terrorist truckdrivers are all Confederate flag-flying good old boys.

Why doesn’t anybody ever talk about, say, Hillary’s Luck? After all, Hillary watches the same channels as Trump does?

But Hillary knows it’s smart to be ignorant. Noticing patterns is stereotyping. Stereotyping, as we all know, is stupid because it’s smart. Or something.

 
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  1. A large number of Uzbeks immigrated to the US over the previous years and many went to NYC. An excerpt from a 2015 article:

    ‘These are the New Uzbeks, the Brooklyn Uzbeks, the approximately 20,000 Muslim immigrants who grew up in independent Uzbekistan and arrived in New York over the past decade.

    Almost everyone on the bus, Sulton said, was a “lottery winner.” This meant they had received their green cards under the State Department’s “diversity visa program,” which affords better immigration odds to “underrepresented” nationalities like Uzbeks. With only 50,000 such visas given out each year, to get one is considered a great stroke of luck, especially since the Uzbek economy is in a near-perpetual shambles.”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/11/isis-brooklyn-uzbeks.html

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Perspective

    Life almost imitating 30 Rock, in which New York had a neighborhood called "Little Chechnya".

    , @Travis
    @Perspective

    http://www.usagreencardlottery.org/green-card-statistics.jsp

    Top ten diversity visa recipients of 2012
    __________Applicants__Winners
    1. Nigeria ___2,005,876 - 6,024
    2. Ghana ___774,557 - 5,832
    3. Ethiopia __785,318 - 4,902
    4. Uzbekistan_507,361 - 4,800
    5. Kenya __304,181 - 4,720
    6. Egypt __780,728 - 4,664
    7. Iran __547,755 - 4,453
    8. Congo __ 208,775 - 3,445
    9. SierraLeone -315,725 - 3,397
    10, Cameroon- 203,906 - 3,374

    needing this foolish program will reduce Muslim immigration significantly. About 300,000 Muslims have obtained green cards via this program over the last decade.

    Replies: @Perspective

  2. The NYT is so transparently Zeroth Amendment propaganda it isn’t even funny anymore. I can only hope permanent destruction will not be done before its childless cat lady SJW readership base dies off.

  3. Is it too much to ask that they are all sent back home? Preferably with maximum publicity and minimal notice

    • Replies: @Stephen Paul Foster
    @MikeJa

    Yes, sending the Muslim's back home would eliminate the Islamophobia: good for them; even better for us.

    See: http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2017/11/democrats-pronouns-and-muslim-immigrants.html

    , @SteveRogers42
    @MikeJa

    And the TSA could be transferred en masse to the Deportation Corps.

    Make Airline Flying Great Again!

  4. Steve! Why do the Dodgers keep letting the first pitch go by without swinging? The Astros just pitch a strike and the batter is behind right from the get go. It’s happened over and over again. Any Sabermetrics? I know I’m not imagining this. Traditionally, many players like to let the first pitch go by to get a look at what the pitcher’s got, but this is a pattern. Bad.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @ThreeCranes

    Dodgers got a huge number of walks during the regular season, while Astros got fewer than average # of walks despite being second in majors in homers.

    Dodger strategy works if other team's pitchers can't throw strikes or you want to wear them out for later games in the series. Maybe tiring them out doesn't work quite so well in 7th Game?

    Replies: @ThreeCranes

  5. In contrast, The Establishment watches the same news, but they know what views are Appropriate to hold: e.g., terrorist truckdrivers are all Confederate flag-flying good old boys.

    Remind me again which side calls itself “the reality based community”?

    • Replies: @415 reasons
    @Jack D

    They havent really used that term so much in the last 10 years. For good reason.

  6. ending the diversity lottery will do far more to reduce Muslim immigration than almost anything else Trump could attempt. Ideally, Trump should immediately suspend the diversity lottery and demand Congress votes to eliminate it before they discuss taxes.

    Over the last decade half of the Diversity visa recipients were from muslim nations. About 300,000 muslims have obtained green cards via this program and they then they typically use their resident status to import another 3 via our family reunification program. I assume this Uzbek Uber Ussassin brought over his spouse, children, siblings and parents. His siblings then brought over their spouses, children, parents etc… Not difficult to believe his green card enabled 23 relatives to obtain visas.

    even “Gang of Eight” immigration reforms, written in part by Schumer, actually would have eliminated the program. Congress should act quickly to abolish this instance program. It discriminates against Canadians, Mexicans, Chinese and the British. Do we really need more uber drivers ? Self-driving cars will be available soon.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Travis


    ending the diversity lottery
     
    Kill the program and salt the earth. Use lots of salt.

    "The (anti-American) Diversity Visa Must Go!" is, I think, another winning issue Trump has cast his lot with. About time.
    , @International Jew
    @Travis


    Even “Gang of Eight” immigration reforms, written in part by Schumer, actually would have eliminated the program.
     
    Unfortunately, now that Trump has weighed in against it, the diversity lottery will become sacrosact. Same trajectory as his "Muslim ban" which, after all, was a lot like what Obama ordered a few years earlier.
  7. Democrats noted on Wednesday that Mr. Trump was quick to assail his political opponents and immigration policies less than 24 hours after the New York attack, even though his own White House declared it unseemly to talk about gun control policies in the immediate aftermath of the massacre in Las Vegas, in which a heavily armed American citizen shot and killed 58 people and injured hundreds of others.

    It’s interesting that they brought Vegas back up, because after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it down the memory hole in one month’s time.

    Speaking of Vegas, there’s just way too much weird shit related to it, namely:

    -The shooter’s house was broken into a week after the shooting, days after the place was swarmed by law enforcement. Nothing was taken, and there are no suspects.
    -The shooter’s hard drive is missing from his computer and the cops can’t find it.
    -The security guard Campos wasn’t listed as a state-licensed guard.
    -The security guard Campos changed his story, then disappeared off the radar.
    -The sheriff quit giving public press conferences.
    -The shooter’s brother was arrested form a kiddie porn charge supposedly dating back to 2014.
    -The shooter sent his GF to the Philippines with $100,00 and visited there himself last year.
    -The shooter was a former government employee.
    -The shooter was a licensed pilot.
    -The shooter supposedly made a multimillion-dollar “living” beating professional casinos at video poker.

    Yeah. Right.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Dr. X


    after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it
     
    The theory that it was political terror (deliberately targeting Trump base voters), and that some undisclosed evidence proves this which has been covered up by all parties to the matter, to prevent revenge attacks.

    Do people around the Sailer comment section buy this? I have seen a few propose it without real evidence.

    As I see it, possible evidence for is: (1) Paddock targeted a Trump demographic, (2) Paddock began to buy guns during the hyper-emotionalized 2016 campaign and began heavily stockpiling after the Trump victory, (3) a 'Paddock as a new Charles Whitman' (the 1960s Clocktower Shooter) theory seems not to hold up because Whitman snapped one day suddenly and went on a rampage, while Paddock planned his massacre very deliberately, perhaps for almost a year (starting from the gun stockpiling beginning, it is reported, in Oct 2016).

    Evidence against is: (1) The shooter left no overt political trail in his past, seemingly, anywhere. None at all of any sort, even an opinion on a local race for dogcatcher (AFAIK). (2) there is reason to believe the shooter had serious mental health issues, inherited sociopathy from his father, recently aggravated as per his girlfriend's comments. I note that (2) does not exclude the possibility of a political motivation as the one could fuel the other.

    Replies: @NOTA, @Issac, @Pericles

    , @International Jew
    @Dr. X

    They're burying that case and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. The Las Vegas PD will do what it wants to do (which likely includes protecting the casinos). And the FBI, while nominally reporting to Donald Trump, remains, like so much else in the federal government, under control of the permanent managerial state.

    , @Jack D
    @Dr. X

    As conspiracy theories go, this is all weak sauce. What Harvey Weinstein did was far, far worse and blasted whas his name (I forget already - Ballcock?) out of the headlines. They really haven't found anything new to say and so there is nothing to write about.

    , @SteveRogers42
    @Dr. X

    Additional oddities:

    https://squawker.org/politics/4chanvegas/

    https://twitter.com/MikeTokes/status/924508300783185921/video/1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd-qz6ei-UM&feature=youtu.be

    And who the [email protected] is Sheriff Lombardo's handler?

    https://i.redd.it/cuu09ljqxmsz.jpg

    Replies: @Expletive Deleted

  8. All 23 of these people ought to be arrested, interrogated and then have every aspect of their life gone over with a fine tooth comb. If we look hard enough, we can find a reason to deport them. If the driver is being held as an enemy combatant, they can probably be detained under NDAA On suspicion of helping him. We should of course be careful to avoid giving the enemy any sob stories, so put a gag order on the whole thing and only release what benefits us to release.

  9. Scottish comedian Billy Connolly also got a green card and a network TV show on the strength of his New Zealand-born wife winning a green card in the Morrison visa lottery.

    • Replies: @FX Enderby
    @Jonathan Mason

    Billy Connolly is alright. We might have preferred open borders with the UK / Canada / Australia / NZ if immigration policy had ever been decided by the public or common sense. But now it's so screwed that Connolly has to use the diversity visa scam?

  10. This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of ‘white’.

    This guy doesn’t look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic ‘Uzbek’ passport.

    • Disagree: Chrisnonymous
    • Troll: ussr andy
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Thomm

    Isn't that a photo from last night's Village Halloween Parade on 6th Avenue?

    And aren't those just three guys from the Village?

    , @Autochthon
    @Thomm

    So. That part of the world, albeit somewhat backward and corrupt (though not as corrupt as Europe and what used to be the U.S.A.), is generally impoverished and unremarkable.

    I went to graduate school with a brilliant Khazak. He was – phenotypically and behaviourally – essentially a tall Chinaman, except that he actually had a personality and could think for himself.

    , @Anon
    @Thomm

    Uzies are a mixed lot. They look like Eurasian-Turkic.

    The guy looks totally Uzbek.

    https://www.quora.com/What-race-are-Turkic-Altaic-people

    , @neutral
    @Thomm

    That is not even close to white.

    Replies: @Hail, @Hail

    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Thomm


    Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of ‘white’
     
    Do you have any pics of white (rather than ‘white’) Uzbeks? Google Image Search is giving me overwhelming Asiatic/Turkic faces, which seems to contradict your statement.

    Replies: @Thomm

    , @Frau Katze
    @Thomm

    The problem is Islam's toxic cult of terror. Violence is not only permitted (in some circumstances) it's mandatory.

    The Uzbeks are definitely Asiatics. All those central Asian nations are Islamic and all but Tajikistan speak languages closely related to Turkish. (But the Turks don't look Asiatic for some reason.)

    Tajikistan speaks a language related to Farsi (Persian).

    Replies: @Hail

    , @Patrick Harris
    @Thomm

    Phenotypically, most people in ex-Soviet central Asia are a mix of Caucasoid and Asiatic traits (I have no idea what the genetics look like). But Islam tends to kick people out of the "white" club if there's otherwise any doubt, which is why Georgians are "white" and Azeris aren't.

    , @Pericles
    @Thomm

    The guy who did the truck terrorist attack in Stockholm earlier this year is an Uzbek too.

  11. @ThreeCranes
    Steve! Why do the Dodgers keep letting the first pitch go by without swinging? The Astros just pitch a strike and the batter is behind right from the get go. It's happened over and over again. Any Sabermetrics? I know I'm not imagining this. Traditionally, many players like to let the first pitch go by to get a look at what the pitcher's got, but this is a pattern. Bad.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Dodgers got a huge number of walks during the regular season, while Astros got fewer than average # of walks despite being second in majors in homers.

    Dodger strategy works if other team’s pitchers can’t throw strikes or you want to wear them out for later games in the series. Maybe tiring them out doesn’t work quite so well in 7th Game?

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    @Steve Sailer

    Tiring them out makes sense (and waiting for a walk) but I swear I'm not imagining it happening for the entire series. Or maybe I am. Anyone got any numbers? Poor Dodgers. 5-0. Rally!!!

  12. Schumer deserved to be called out for his role in the creation of the Divershitty Visa but it would have been nice if Trump had done it in a less flippant way. Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    • Replies: @newrouter
    @AndrewR

    >Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks<

    Maybe the times calls for such a tactic?

    , @Wilkey
    @AndrewR

    Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    Methinks you have the front of the classroom and the back of the classroom confused. Trump's the teacher telling the truth, while most of the classroom has turned around and started listening to the pothead in the back.

    , @Another Realist
    @AndrewR

    Divershitty visa, haha, I love it. Clever.

    I think what a lot of people love about Trump is his courage to tell it like it is, like what he said about the Charlottesville protest. It's refreshing in a sea of spineless politicians beaten into submission by the PC gone wild media.

    , @NickG
    @AndrewR


    Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks
     
    What some of us like about Trump is that he is not so good at not-noticing.
    , @MBlanc46
    @AndrewR

    Many of us wish that we had a better champion, but, at the moment, Trump is it.

  13. So, this 3rd world tard (ahem, genius) wins the “lottery” and by law he gets to invite 23 (or more?) of his fam/friends? And, do those 23 get to invite 23 (or more)? And, so on? Just curious how this immigration stuff works.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Bacchus


    ...by law he gets to invite 23 (or more?) of his fam/friends? And, do those 23 get to invite 23 (or more)? And, so on?
     
    Pretty much; not only by law, but just by the nature of getting a "pipeline via contacts" set up from one place to another. Some places seemed to have imported entire villages into the US.
  14. NYers hate ordinary Americans.

    Send more Uzbeks and Chechens there.

    • Agree: MBlanc46
  15. So this 3rd world turd was able to sponsor 23 relatives? For some countries, like the Philippines, it can take over 20 years for a sibling to immigrate because of the demand. Seems like Muslim scum from obscure countries can waltz in.

    • Replies: @jim sweeney
    @wrd9

    The Philippines and many other countries are not permitted to be part of the lottery program and, while on the Philippines, if you're a single Philippine womn, it is almost impossible to obtain a B1 or B2 visa but, nowadays, the Chinese get them with ease wheras a few years ago, it was very difficult.

    There's little logic in immigration and in its departmental regs.

    By law, if you are born of an American citizen parent but not in the USA, you are still a citizen a la Ted Cruz being born in Canada to an American Mother. His Dad was not yet a citizen. The paperwork to obtain that citizenship is incredible and the filing fee is a litlle over $1,000! Imagine poor Filipinos or others finding a grand for filing fees?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  16. How many Uzbecks attended America First rallies in the 1930s? How many Uzbecks helped get Reagan and Nixon elected? None or nearly none? Well then:

  17. @Steve Sailer
    @ThreeCranes

    Dodgers got a huge number of walks during the regular season, while Astros got fewer than average # of walks despite being second in majors in homers.

    Dodger strategy works if other team's pitchers can't throw strikes or you want to wear them out for later games in the series. Maybe tiring them out doesn't work quite so well in 7th Game?

    Replies: @ThreeCranes

    Tiring them out makes sense (and waiting for a walk) but I swear I’m not imagining it happening for the entire series. Or maybe I am. Anyone got any numbers? Poor Dodgers. 5-0. Rally!!!

  18. The suspect is in custody, but somewhere in this great land of ours a she-goat settles into her hay bedding tearful and lonely.

    • LOL: Autochthon
  19. @AndrewR
    Schumer deserved to be called out for his role in the creation of the Divershitty Visa but it would have been nice if Trump had done it in a less flippant way. Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    Replies: @newrouter, @Wilkey, @Another Realist, @NickG, @MBlanc46

    >Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks<

    Maybe the times calls for such a tactic?

  20. I’m not advocating anything but activist judges presuming to legislate from the bech, overrule executive orders, and dictate military policy are a few more Diversity Lottery winner celebrations away from an angry mob. There never was widespread popular support or positive enthusiasm for diversifying immigration for its own sake, it was just something we tolerated out of ignorance.
    The most important aspect of the Trumpening is not anything Trump did, it’s the Crisis of Authority, which is a real crisis, with an inarguably legitimate grievance of abused position.
    Nobody voted for Trump because they like to see the word “coverage” misspelled or because Russians legally purchased a FaceBook advertisement. They voted for him, showed up to his rallies, and increase in their numbers like clouds becoming a storm because they realized that violence is real and not a statistic. The time is coming when academics given to self-impressed quotation of Richard Posner’s dismissal of our foundational document and the basis of all legitimacy are just going to be shoved aside or worse.

  21. It’s Pigeon Invasion.

    It’s like what they say. “Don’t feed the pigeons.”

    Feed one and more come, and then more and more.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Anon

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19r7ctge2lI

    (Warning: that classroom lacks diversity!)

    Replies: @jim jones

  22. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Wonder how many of those twenty-three relatives really are related and how much of it is a scam. The Uzbek terrorist is not an Arab or from any of the countries affected by US military operations so presumably he acted out of broader Islamic sympathies. This would make a general ban of all Muslim immigration seem to be called for if it could be implemented without undue publicity and putting those majority Muslim countries publicly allied with us under popular pressure. Perhaps it’s too obvious but did anyone even look at this person with his beard and think he looked the part of a jihadi terrorist? Nah, don’t think about what your eyeballs tell you.

  23. @Thomm
    This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of 'white'.

    https://www.advantour.com/img/uzbekistan/culture/uzbek-dance8.jpg

    This guy doesn't look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic 'Uzbek' passport.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Autochthon, @Anon, @neutral, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Frau Katze, @Patrick Harris, @Pericles

    Isn’t that a photo from last night’s Village Halloween Parade on 6th Avenue?

    And aren’t those just three guys from the Village?

  24. @Thomm
    This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of 'white'.

    https://www.advantour.com/img/uzbekistan/culture/uzbek-dance8.jpg

    This guy doesn't look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic 'Uzbek' passport.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Autochthon, @Anon, @neutral, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Frau Katze, @Patrick Harris, @Pericles

    So. That part of the world, albeit somewhat backward and corrupt (though not as corrupt as Europe and what used to be the U.S.A.), is generally impoverished and unremarkable.

    I went to graduate school with a brilliant Khazak. He was – phenotypically and behaviourally – essentially a tall Chinaman, except that he actually had a personality and could think for himself.

  25. I think it’s even-handed to say that Diversity Visa program is the Bump Stock loophole of immigration policy.

    The definition of compromise, according to Obama, is “I get 98% of what I want and you get nothing.” But the older definition of compromise is “you give me something I want in exchange for me giving something you want that I’m not thrilled with but can tolerate.” Swapping a bump stock ban for an end to the diversity lottery would be a perfect example of compromise.

    Also note that while President Trump can’t end the diversity lottery permanently he can reduce the number of annual recipients while he’s president down to exactly zero. Trump should do that, along with reducing refugees down to zero, as well. It’s time to play hardball on immigration negotiations. At the very least there would be 300,000 fewer new immigrants in the USA by the end of Trump’s first time.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    @Wilkey

    Except this log-rolling -- trading unrelated issues -- is how we get ever-bigger government. The Republicans make government bigger for everyone in exchange for some illusory or temporary "benefit," perhaps for special interests, or perhaps in a futile effort to get the media to like them.

    In your example, there is really no constituency for eliminating "bump stocks" (though it polls well and there's not much of a constituency against it, either) whereas the diversity lottery is an outrage that most Americans probably oppose, especially now.

    Instead of the usual tactic of letting the effective negotiators Schumer and Pelosi get something in exchange, I would like to see them stand on principle (I know, an oxymoron) and put the diversity lottery to a stand-alone vote and let the Democrats defend it. That's what majorities are supposed to be for.

  26. @AndrewR
    Schumer deserved to be called out for his role in the creation of the Divershitty Visa but it would have been nice if Trump had done it in a less flippant way. Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    Replies: @newrouter, @Wilkey, @Another Realist, @NickG, @MBlanc46

    Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    Methinks you have the front of the classroom and the back of the classroom confused. Trump’s the teacher telling the truth, while most of the classroom has turned around and started listening to the pothead in the back.

  27. @Thomm
    This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of 'white'.

    https://www.advantour.com/img/uzbekistan/culture/uzbek-dance8.jpg

    This guy doesn't look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic 'Uzbek' passport.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Autochthon, @Anon, @neutral, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Frau Katze, @Patrick Harris, @Pericles

    Uzies are a mixed lot. They look like Eurasian-Turkic.

    The guy looks totally Uzbek.

    https://www.quora.com/What-race-are-Turkic-Altaic-people

  28. In response to yesterday’s NYC attack, Julia Ioffe writes an article that misses the mark in a way only she can.
    Link

    Why Does Uzbekistan Export So Many Terrorists?

    Of course an alternate title for the same article might have been “Why Does non-Uzbekistan Import Any Uzbekistanis?”, but that thought evidently never entered her editor’s mind. It’s also a highly misleading title, because if we read on, we find that Uzbekistan doesn’t export terrorists in quite the same way that, say, Japan exports cars or Canada exports lentils. As it turns out, being an Islamic terrorist in Uzbekistan is pretty damn hard. She goes on to detail the ruling Karimov clan’s crackdown on Islam in Uzbekistan, informing us that consequently, Uzbek terrorists generally need to go elsewhere to cause trouble.

    “And yet the draconian measures implemented by the Karimov regime have not solved the problem of Islamist extremism in Uzbekistan. They have only pushed problem underground and, ultimately, abroad.”

    So not Uzbekistan?

    Despite her assertion, Wikipedia doesn’t list any Islamic terrorist attacks as having taken place in Uzbekistan since 2004, when bombings targeted the US and Israeli embassies. Of course, the price of this calm is living in a police state where people occasionally get boiled alive, but maybe that’s the only way a country of 32 million can function when the vast majority are Muslim.

    Ioffe points out that Uzbek Islamists generally flee to, and cause trouble in, failed states like Afghanistan, Syria, Western Iraq(until recently), and the tribal areas of Pakistan. What she never questions is why non-failed states like Sweden, Turkey, and the United States are willing to take in people from the one of the world’s leading exporters of Islamic terrorism. She apparently forgets that just as you need two to tango, immigration to a functioning country requires some sort of acceptance on the part of the receiving state.

    This is a common mental mistake among establishment thinkers. How many times have you heard that France’s Muslim population is “inherited” from its former colonies or that England’s Muslims are a “legacy” of colonialism, as if they just sort of appeared one day in Europe without any lawmakers doing the actual importing?

  29. @Thomm
    This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of 'white'.

    https://www.advantour.com/img/uzbekistan/culture/uzbek-dance8.jpg

    This guy doesn't look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic 'Uzbek' passport.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Autochthon, @Anon, @neutral, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Frau Katze, @Patrick Harris, @Pericles

    That is not even close to white.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @neutral

    https://twitter.com/AudaciousEpigon/status/925901771758764032
    https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/925836445050376193

    , @Hail
    @neutral

    https://twitter.com/AudaciousEpigon/status/925901771758764032

    https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/925836445050376193

  30. @Thomm
    This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of 'white'.

    https://www.advantour.com/img/uzbekistan/culture/uzbek-dance8.jpg

    This guy doesn't look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic 'Uzbek' passport.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Autochthon, @Anon, @neutral, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Frau Katze, @Patrick Harris, @Pericles

    Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of ‘white’

    Do you have any pics of white (rather than ‘white’) Uzbeks? Google Image Search is giving me overwhelming Asiatic/Turkic faces, which seems to contradict your statement.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Some look slightly Mongol, which is to be expected (a lot of Russians, like Brezhnev and Yeltsin, looked this way too). But all are light-skinned. Remember, this is a Former Soviet country, and not exactly on the periphery either.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  31. It’s the Clan Plan.

    Bring grannies to fill up nursing homes, bring kids to fill up schools.

    It’s Spam Migration or Spammigration.

    It never stops.

  32. @Perspective
    A large number of Uzbeks immigrated to the US over the previous years and many went to NYC. An excerpt from a 2015 article:

    'These are the New Uzbeks, the Brooklyn Uzbeks, the approximately 20,000 Muslim immigrants who grew up in independent Uzbekistan and arrived in New York over the past decade.

    Almost everyone on the bus, Sulton said, was a “lottery winner.” This meant they had received their green cards under the State Department’s “diversity visa program,” which affords better immigration odds to “underrepresented” nationalities like Uzbeks. With only 50,000 such visas given out each year, to get one is considered a great stroke of luck, especially since the Uzbek economy is in a near-perpetual shambles."

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/11/isis-brooklyn-uzbeks.html

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Travis

    Life almost imitating 30 Rock, in which New York had a neighborhood called “Little Chechnya”.

  33. OT but they’ve released some of the Russian ads.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/facebook-event-ads-russia-house-intel-release

    Another one shows Satan and Jesus arm wrestling and reads that a Hillary victory is Satan’s victory.

    Who would be influenced by such ads, really?

    The fake marches in TX & NYC, however. Kind of funny and embarrassing

  34. • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Mr. Anon

    Forgive me, I can't help think, "If only..."

  35. OT: For the DNC, (cishet) white men need not apply:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/01/dnc-white-men-shouldnt-apply-for-tech-jobs.html

    At least their putting their money (or, at least, Haim Saban’s money) where their mouth is.

  36. @Jack D

    In contrast, The Establishment watches the same news, but they know what views are Appropriate to hold: e.g., terrorist truckdrivers are all Confederate flag-flying good old boys.
     
    Remind me again which side calls itself "the reality based community"?

    Replies: @415 reasons

    They havent really used that term so much in the last 10 years. For good reason.

  37. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Thomm


    Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of ‘white’
     
    Do you have any pics of white (rather than ‘white’) Uzbeks? Google Image Search is giving me overwhelming Asiatic/Turkic faces, which seems to contradict your statement.

    Replies: @Thomm

    Some look slightly Mongol, which is to be expected (a lot of Russians, like Brezhnev and Yeltsin, looked this way too). But all are light-skinned. Remember, this is a Former Soviet country, and not exactly on the periphery either.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Thomm


    Some look slightly Mongol.
     
    Slightly? Did you actually click on my link?

    But they are all light skinned.
     
    Many of them are quite dusky. Please click on the link.

    Remember, this is a former Soviet Country
     
    The Soviet Union was by far the largest State by area in the world, encompassing vast amounts of recently annexed Imperial territory, deep into Asia. Unsurprisingly, most of the people in the far-flung ‘—stans’ look strongly Asiatic, not white. There may be residual ‘Aryan’ whiteness in pockets, but this is not the norm. Also, ethnic Russians may have settled in small numbers, but this is inconsequential regarding the diversity lottery issue.

    By any chance, are you Jefferson (#408) posting under a new handle?
  38. In 2016, Uzbekistan was one of the top five sources of immigrants under the diversity lottery.

    Aside from fullfilling the vital job of Uber-driver, has anyone even ever heard of an Uzbek immigrant in America of any note? Has anyone ever heard of an Uzbek of any note even in Uzbekistan? Other than this guy and the guy who ran down a bunch of people in the Berlin Christmas market last year, I can’t think of any.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    @Mr. Anon

    Milana Vayntrub contributes significant...er...assets.

    But, no, I can’t think of any other Uzbeks I would be as eager to enter...er...to allow to enter....

    Replies: @Laugh Track, @Mr. Anon

    , @jbwilson24
    @Mr. Anon

    Don't forget the stabby Uzbek student who killed a few women in Finland recently.

    Saw a ton of them in Moscow when I was there in summer. My Russian wife hates them with a passion, calling them invaders.

    , @a reader
    @Mr. Anon

    The perpetrator of the Berlin Christmas market attack last year was a Tunisian.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  39. @Travis
    ending the diversity lottery will do far more to reduce Muslim immigration than almost anything else Trump could attempt. Ideally, Trump should immediately suspend the diversity lottery and demand Congress votes to eliminate it before they discuss taxes.

    Over the last decade half of the Diversity visa recipients were from muslim nations. About 300,000 muslims have obtained green cards via this program and they then they typically use their resident status to import another 3 via our family reunification program. I assume this Uzbek Uber Ussassin brought over his spouse, children, siblings and parents. His siblings then brought over their spouses, children, parents etc... Not difficult to believe his green card enabled 23 relatives to obtain visas.

    even "Gang of Eight" immigration reforms, written in part by Schumer, actually would have eliminated the program. Congress should act quickly to abolish this instance program. It discriminates against Canadians, Mexicans, Chinese and the British. Do we really need more uber drivers ? Self-driving cars will be available soon.

    Replies: @Hail, @International Jew

    ending the diversity lottery

    Kill the program and salt the earth. Use lots of salt.

    “The (anti-American) Diversity Visa Must Go!” is, I think, another winning issue Trump has cast his lot with. About time.

  40. >>“You play into the hands of the terrorists to the extent that you disrupt and divide and frighten people in this society,” said Mr. Cuomo,

    The people need to be divided and frightened, Mr. Cuomo.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Daniel H

    Isn't disrupting and dividing and frightening people in this society what terrorists do, Mr. Cuomo? So what terrorists do plays into the hands of terrorists, eh?

  41. @AndrewR
    Schumer deserved to be called out for his role in the creation of the Divershitty Visa but it would have been nice if Trump had done it in a less flippant way. Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    Replies: @newrouter, @Wilkey, @Another Realist, @NickG, @MBlanc46

    Divershitty visa, haha, I love it. Clever.

    I think what a lot of people love about Trump is his courage to tell it like it is, like what he said about the Charlottesville protest. It’s refreshing in a sea of spineless politicians beaten into submission by the PC gone wild media.

  42. @Dr. X

    Democrats noted on Wednesday that Mr. Trump was quick to assail his political opponents and immigration policies less than 24 hours after the New York attack, even though his own White House declared it unseemly to talk about gun control policies in the immediate aftermath of the massacre in Las Vegas, in which a heavily armed American citizen shot and killed 58 people and injured hundreds of others.
     
    It's interesting that they brought Vegas back up, because after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it down the memory hole in one month's time.

    Speaking of Vegas, there's just way too much weird shit related to it, namely:

    -The shooter's house was broken into a week after the shooting, days after the place was swarmed by law enforcement. Nothing was taken, and there are no suspects.
    -The shooter's hard drive is missing from his computer and the cops can't find it.
    -The security guard Campos wasn't listed as a state-licensed guard.
    -The security guard Campos changed his story, then disappeared off the radar.
    -The sheriff quit giving public press conferences.
    -The shooter's brother was arrested form a kiddie porn charge supposedly dating back to 2014.
    -The shooter sent his GF to the Philippines with $100,00 and visited there himself last year.
    -The shooter was a former government employee.
    -The shooter was a licensed pilot.
    -The shooter supposedly made a multimillion-dollar "living" beating professional casinos at video poker.

    Yeah. Right.

    Replies: @Hail, @International Jew, @Jack D, @SteveRogers42

    after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it

    The theory that it was political terror (deliberately targeting Trump base voters), and that some undisclosed evidence proves this which has been covered up by all parties to the matter, to prevent revenge attacks.

    Do people around the Sailer comment section buy this? I have seen a few propose it without real evidence.

    As I see it, possible evidence for is: (1) Paddock targeted a Trump demographic, (2) Paddock began to buy guns during the hyper-emotionalized 2016 campaign and began heavily stockpiling after the Trump victory, (3) a ‘Paddock as a new Charles Whitman’ (the 1960s Clocktower Shooter) theory seems not to hold up because Whitman snapped one day suddenly and went on a rampage, while Paddock planned his massacre very deliberately, perhaps for almost a year (starting from the gun stockpiling beginning, it is reported, in Oct 2016).

    Evidence against is: (1) The shooter left no overt political trail in his past, seemingly, anywhere. None at all of any sort, even an opinion on a local race for dogcatcher (AFAIK). (2) there is reason to believe the shooter had serious mental health issues, inherited sociopathy from his father, recently aggravated as per his girlfriend’s comments. I note that (2) does not exclude the possibility of a political motivation as the one could fuel the other.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Hail

    Mass shootings like the Las Vegas one are overwhelmingly caused by the shooter being nuts, even when he has some kind of political or social motive behind his shooting. There are exceptions, but most of them—the Orlando gay nightclub crazy, the nutball that shot Gabby Giffords, the creep who shot a bunch of people in Santa Barbara (apparently because they didn’t want to sleep with him), etc.—are 99% mental illness and 1% political ideology. We are a big violent country with a lot of crazies and a lot of guns, so we get a fair number of these.

    By giving these nuts lots of media attention, we encourage the next nut with a gun to shoot someplace up. We ought to bury the fuckers in unmarked graves and ban publication of their names or faces.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    , @Issac
    @Hail

    Political motivation seems to be the most plausible theory of the many on offer. It is the one scenario for which the progressive establishment has no cover and can only be implicated as part of the problem. Quite literally any other motive, including Islamic conversion, offers at-least a fig-leaf of narrative work-around (eg. Incensed convert kills because Muslims mistreated in X case). This would also explain the lack of curiosity from the Trump admin, as keeping such a revelation under wraps would be a very powerful bargaining chip.

    , @Pericles
    @Hail

    I thought the shooter was a Bernie Boomer, like James Hodgkinson who almost killed off the Republican congressional baseball team a short while ago. But the more we learn, at this point, the odder it gets. Maybe we just need to wait for the authorities to release more info to make some sense of it.

  43. Is America ready for an Uzbek at the head of the Federal Reserve?

  44. Such truckulence.

  45. @neutral
    @Thomm

    That is not even close to white.

    Replies: @Hail, @Hail

    https://twitter.com/AudaciousEpigon/status/925901771758764032

  46. OT

    The family and friends of Seth Rich would probably agree — BTW, how’s that investigation going?

    • Replies: @eah
    @eah

    https://twitter.com/DRUDGE/status/926892115044343808

  47. @neutral
    @Thomm

    That is not even close to white.

    Replies: @Hail, @Hail

    https://twitter.com/AudaciousEpigon/status/925901771758764032

  48. Diversity is our greatest strength and vibrancy is our secret weapon.

  49. The “Are Uzbeks White” Debate.

    – Wiki’s opening argument:

    the genetic admixture of the Uzbeks clusters somewhere between the Iranian peoples and the Mongols.

    – Rebuttal by Instinct: Muslim? Not White. I don’t care.

  50. @Hail
    @Dr. X


    after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it
     
    The theory that it was political terror (deliberately targeting Trump base voters), and that some undisclosed evidence proves this which has been covered up by all parties to the matter, to prevent revenge attacks.

    Do people around the Sailer comment section buy this? I have seen a few propose it without real evidence.

    As I see it, possible evidence for is: (1) Paddock targeted a Trump demographic, (2) Paddock began to buy guns during the hyper-emotionalized 2016 campaign and began heavily stockpiling after the Trump victory, (3) a 'Paddock as a new Charles Whitman' (the 1960s Clocktower Shooter) theory seems not to hold up because Whitman snapped one day suddenly and went on a rampage, while Paddock planned his massacre very deliberately, perhaps for almost a year (starting from the gun stockpiling beginning, it is reported, in Oct 2016).

    Evidence against is: (1) The shooter left no overt political trail in his past, seemingly, anywhere. None at all of any sort, even an opinion on a local race for dogcatcher (AFAIK). (2) there is reason to believe the shooter had serious mental health issues, inherited sociopathy from his father, recently aggravated as per his girlfriend's comments. I note that (2) does not exclude the possibility of a political motivation as the one could fuel the other.

    Replies: @NOTA, @Issac, @Pericles

    Mass shootings like the Las Vegas one are overwhelmingly caused by the shooter being nuts, even when he has some kind of political or social motive behind his shooting. There are exceptions, but most of them—the Orlando gay nightclub crazy, the nutball that shot Gabby Giffords, the creep who shot a bunch of people in Santa Barbara (apparently because they didn’t want to sleep with him), etc.—are 99% mental illness and 1% political ideology. We are a big violent country with a lot of crazies and a lot of guns, so we get a fair number of these.

    By giving these nuts lots of media attention, we encourage the next nut with a gun to shoot someplace up. We ought to bury the fuckers in unmarked graves and ban publication of their names or faces.

    • Agree: Autochthon, slumber_j
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @NOTA

    Capitalism and the Industrial Revolution have democratized deadly efficient weaponry and delivered them to an atomized people. As I've remarked, in the gun control debate 2A advocates ignore the technology and Leftists ignore the atomization.

    A bipartisan ban on bump stocks probably could have passed in the aftermath of Vegas. But as noted, this horrific shooting seems to have gone off a lot of people's radar.

    I suspect lawyers have sent spoliation letters to Mandalay Bay in preparation for lawsuits over Paddock managing to stock a small armory in his hotel room. Maybe there were some red flags, maybe not. But the wind sure seems to have been sucked out of any official action on the massacre. Recall the CSI swoop through the San Bernardino shooters' apartment before quickly concluding nope, nothing to see here and inviting the media to tramp around. Maybe there wasn't anything to see.

    Larger questions like why are we importing marginal people from antithetical creeds into an atomized, scaled society go unasked, among other questions.

  51. @Hail
    @Dr. X


    after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it
     
    The theory that it was political terror (deliberately targeting Trump base voters), and that some undisclosed evidence proves this which has been covered up by all parties to the matter, to prevent revenge attacks.

    Do people around the Sailer comment section buy this? I have seen a few propose it without real evidence.

    As I see it, possible evidence for is: (1) Paddock targeted a Trump demographic, (2) Paddock began to buy guns during the hyper-emotionalized 2016 campaign and began heavily stockpiling after the Trump victory, (3) a 'Paddock as a new Charles Whitman' (the 1960s Clocktower Shooter) theory seems not to hold up because Whitman snapped one day suddenly and went on a rampage, while Paddock planned his massacre very deliberately, perhaps for almost a year (starting from the gun stockpiling beginning, it is reported, in Oct 2016).

    Evidence against is: (1) The shooter left no overt political trail in his past, seemingly, anywhere. None at all of any sort, even an opinion on a local race for dogcatcher (AFAIK). (2) there is reason to believe the shooter had serious mental health issues, inherited sociopathy from his father, recently aggravated as per his girlfriend's comments. I note that (2) does not exclude the possibility of a political motivation as the one could fuel the other.

    Replies: @NOTA, @Issac, @Pericles

    Political motivation seems to be the most plausible theory of the many on offer. It is the one scenario for which the progressive establishment has no cover and can only be implicated as part of the problem. Quite literally any other motive, including Islamic conversion, offers at-least a fig-leaf of narrative work-around (eg. Incensed convert kills because Muslims mistreated in X case). This would also explain the lack of curiosity from the Trump admin, as keeping such a revelation under wraps would be a very powerful bargaining chip.

  52. Do we suspect at all that many ISIS members and ISIS sympathizers are the result of generations of cousin marriage and therefore basically retarded?

  53. @wrd9
    So this 3rd world turd was able to sponsor 23 relatives? For some countries, like the Philippines, it can take over 20 years for a sibling to immigrate because of the demand. Seems like Muslim scum from obscure countries can waltz in.

    Replies: @jim sweeney

    The Philippines and many other countries are not permitted to be part of the lottery program and, while on the Philippines, if you’re a single Philippine womn, it is almost impossible to obtain a B1 or B2 visa but, nowadays, the Chinese get them with ease wheras a few years ago, it was very difficult.

    There’s little logic in immigration and in its departmental regs.

    By law, if you are born of an American citizen parent but not in the USA, you are still a citizen a la Ted Cruz being born in Canada to an American Mother. His Dad was not yet a citizen. The paperwork to obtain that citizenship is incredible and the filing fee is a litlle over $1,000! Imagine poor Filipinos or others finding a grand for filing fees?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @jim sweeney


    The paperwork to obtain that citizenship is incredible and the filing fee is a litlle over $1,000! Imagine poor Filipinos or others finding a grand for filing fees?
     
    They could always ask their misanthropic video-poker-playing sugar-daddy to spot them the cash.
  54. @Mr. Anon

    Forgive me, I can’t help think, “If only…”

  55. @Mr. Anon
    In 2016, Uzbekistan was one of the top five sources of immigrants under the diversity lottery.

    Aside from fullfilling the vital job of Uber-driver, has anyone even ever heard of an Uzbek immigrant in America of any note? Has anyone ever heard of an Uzbek of any note even in Uzbekistan? Other than this guy and the guy who ran down a bunch of people in the Berlin Christmas market last year, I can't think of any.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @jbwilson24, @a reader

    Milana Vayntrub contributes significant…er…assets.

    But, no, I can’t think of any other Uzbeks I would be as eager to enter…er…to allow to enter….

    • Replies: @Laugh Track
    @Autochthon


    Milana Vayntrub contributes significant…er…assets.

    But, no, I can’t think of any other Uzbeks I would be as eager to enter…er…to allow to enter….
     
    Agree on (((Milana))), (love those ATT commercials), but the off-camera SJW aspects -- note her Tweets -- just crush one's fantasies.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Autochthon

    Apparently she was born in Uzbekistan, but she is about as "Uzbek" as Masha Gessen is "Russian".

  56. @Thomm
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Some look slightly Mongol, which is to be expected (a lot of Russians, like Brezhnev and Yeltsin, looked this way too). But all are light-skinned. Remember, this is a Former Soviet country, and not exactly on the periphery either.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Some look slightly Mongol.

    Slightly? Did you actually click on my link?

    But they are all light skinned.

    Many of them are quite dusky. Please click on the link.

    Remember, this is a former Soviet Country

    The Soviet Union was by far the largest State by area in the world, encompassing vast amounts of recently annexed Imperial territory, deep into Asia. Unsurprisingly, most of the people in the far-flung ‘—stans’ look strongly Asiatic, not white. There may be residual ‘Aryan’ whiteness in pockets, but this is not the norm. Also, ethnic Russians may have settled in small numbers, but this is inconsequential regarding the diversity lottery issue.

    By any chance, are you Jefferson (#408) posting under a new handle?

  57. @Daniel H
    >>“You play into the hands of the terrorists to the extent that you disrupt and divide and frighten people in this society,” said Mr. Cuomo,

    The people need to be divided and frightened, Mr. Cuomo.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    Isn’t disrupting and dividing and frightening people in this society what terrorists do, Mr. Cuomo? So what terrorists do plays into the hands of terrorists, eh?

  58. @Thomm
    This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of 'white'.

    https://www.advantour.com/img/uzbekistan/culture/uzbek-dance8.jpg

    This guy doesn't look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic 'Uzbek' passport.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Autochthon, @Anon, @neutral, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Frau Katze, @Patrick Harris, @Pericles

    The problem is Islam’s toxic cult of terror. Violence is not only permitted (in some circumstances) it’s mandatory.

    The Uzbeks are definitely Asiatics. All those central Asian nations are Islamic and all but Tajikistan speak languages closely related to Turkish. (But the Turks don’t look Asiatic for some reason.)

    Tajikistan speaks a language related to Farsi (Persian).

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Frau Katze


    the Turks don’t look Asiatic for some reason
     
    The Turkic horsemen of a thousand years ago have long since melted into the local population stock.

    Wiki says it loud:

    Autosomal studies with recent methodology estimate the Central Asian contribution in Turkish people at 13–15%
     
  59. @Frau Katze
    @Thomm

    The problem is Islam's toxic cult of terror. Violence is not only permitted (in some circumstances) it's mandatory.

    The Uzbeks are definitely Asiatics. All those central Asian nations are Islamic and all but Tajikistan speak languages closely related to Turkish. (But the Turks don't look Asiatic for some reason.)

    Tajikistan speaks a language related to Farsi (Persian).

    Replies: @Hail

    the Turks don’t look Asiatic for some reason

    The Turkic horsemen of a thousand years ago have long since melted into the local population stock.

    Wiki says it loud:

    Autosomal studies with recent methodology estimate the Central Asian contribution in Turkish people at 13–15%

  60. @AndrewR
    Schumer deserved to be called out for his role in the creation of the Divershitty Visa but it would have been nice if Trump had done it in a less flippant way. Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    Replies: @newrouter, @Wilkey, @Another Realist, @NickG, @MBlanc46

    Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    What some of us like about Trump is that he is not so good at not-noticing.

  61. @Autochthon
    @Mr. Anon

    Milana Vayntrub contributes significant...er...assets.

    But, no, I can’t think of any other Uzbeks I would be as eager to enter...er...to allow to enter....

    Replies: @Laugh Track, @Mr. Anon

    Milana Vayntrub contributes significant…er…assets.

    But, no, I can’t think of any other Uzbeks I would be as eager to enter…er…to allow to enter….

    Agree on (((Milana))), (love those ATT commercials), but the off-camera SJW aspects — note her Tweets — just crush one’s fantasies.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Laugh Track

    Milana is Jewish, not Uzbek. Vayntrub is the Romanization of the Russian spelling of the Ashkenazi name Weintraub (wine grape).

    A number of Russians/Jews ended up in Uzbekistan when it was part of the Soviet Union (and even earlier during the Russian Imperial period - Uzbekistan was Russian ruled starting around the 1860s). I think they still have maybe a 5% residual Russian minority. Real ethnic Uzbeks are E. Asian/ Central Asian/ Caucasian hybrids and look nothing like Milana.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  62. @Travis
    ending the diversity lottery will do far more to reduce Muslim immigration than almost anything else Trump could attempt. Ideally, Trump should immediately suspend the diversity lottery and demand Congress votes to eliminate it before they discuss taxes.

    Over the last decade half of the Diversity visa recipients were from muslim nations. About 300,000 muslims have obtained green cards via this program and they then they typically use their resident status to import another 3 via our family reunification program. I assume this Uzbek Uber Ussassin brought over his spouse, children, siblings and parents. His siblings then brought over their spouses, children, parents etc... Not difficult to believe his green card enabled 23 relatives to obtain visas.

    even "Gang of Eight" immigration reforms, written in part by Schumer, actually would have eliminated the program. Congress should act quickly to abolish this instance program. It discriminates against Canadians, Mexicans, Chinese and the British. Do we really need more uber drivers ? Self-driving cars will be available soon.

    Replies: @Hail, @International Jew

    Even “Gang of Eight” immigration reforms, written in part by Schumer, actually would have eliminated the program.

    Unfortunately, now that Trump has weighed in against it, the diversity lottery will become sacrosact. Same trajectory as his “Muslim ban” which, after all, was a lot like what Obama ordered a few years earlier.

  63. If the war criminal (((Schumer))) really cared about “bringing us together” he’d demand we stop fighting criminal wars for his Terrorist Theocracy of Eretz Ysreal.

    So far his Frankfort School agenda is proceeding much to his liking.

    Now for that war with Iran, so he can demand traumatized victims of that war be admitted to the US too. Gotta get those Muslims out of Israel’s way!

  64. @Dr. X

    Democrats noted on Wednesday that Mr. Trump was quick to assail his political opponents and immigration policies less than 24 hours after the New York attack, even though his own White House declared it unseemly to talk about gun control policies in the immediate aftermath of the massacre in Las Vegas, in which a heavily armed American citizen shot and killed 58 people and injured hundreds of others.
     
    It's interesting that they brought Vegas back up, because after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it down the memory hole in one month's time.

    Speaking of Vegas, there's just way too much weird shit related to it, namely:

    -The shooter's house was broken into a week after the shooting, days after the place was swarmed by law enforcement. Nothing was taken, and there are no suspects.
    -The shooter's hard drive is missing from his computer and the cops can't find it.
    -The security guard Campos wasn't listed as a state-licensed guard.
    -The security guard Campos changed his story, then disappeared off the radar.
    -The sheriff quit giving public press conferences.
    -The shooter's brother was arrested form a kiddie porn charge supposedly dating back to 2014.
    -The shooter sent his GF to the Philippines with $100,00 and visited there himself last year.
    -The shooter was a former government employee.
    -The shooter was a licensed pilot.
    -The shooter supposedly made a multimillion-dollar "living" beating professional casinos at video poker.

    Yeah. Right.

    Replies: @Hail, @International Jew, @Jack D, @SteveRogers42

    They’re burying that case and there’s not a damn thing we can do about it. The Las Vegas PD will do what it wants to do (which likely includes protecting the casinos). And the FBI, while nominally reporting to Donald Trump, remains, like so much else in the federal government, under control of the permanent managerial state.

  65. @Anon
    It's Pigeon Invasion.

    It's like what they say. "Don't feed the pigeons."

    Feed one and more come, and then more and more.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    (Warning: that classroom lacks diversity!)

    • Replies: @jim jones
    @silviosilver

    Warning, Teacher was smoking a cigarette

  66. I agree with the many calls to end the “diversity visa” and all other Invite the World suicidal folly. (I am inclined to believe that Derbian Minimalism is the way to go on immigration.)

    But what about the Invade the World folly? I have seen no more than a few comments even mention it. Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands? Haven’t at least some of the attackers explicitly declared as much?

    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

    • Replies: @ussr andy
    @Dissident


    To the extent that we are culpable and complicit
     
    who of those killed were culpable and complicit?

    is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

     

    no, that's totally immoral. you fix wrong (bombing their countries) by stopping doing it, not by continuing to do it while offering a little something in return. and, conversely, it's immoral for someone who truly has a problem with American incursions to accept that bargain.

    regardless, for all their talk of payback, the Muzzies are killing people with, like, the least power to change anything - random passers by, partygoers etc. At least 19th century anarchists went for important people.

    It's like Muzzies believe in democracy or something. Or, what's more likely, coming from clannish peasant cultures, they vastly "misunderestimate" Western social cohesion (or rather, the lack of it.) They really don't understand why killing even dozens in a country of 400 million fails to change American policy like snatching some from a neighboring rival tribe back in the mountains would change theirs.

    Replies: @Dissident

    , @Jack D
    @Dissident

    This has nothing to do with Uzbekistan. The Uzbeks in the US are not refugees.

    To the extent that Muslim refugees exist in the world, they would exist even if the US would disappear from the face of the earth -Muslims were warring among each other long before the US ever existed and they will keep warring with each other whether the US interferes or not. If refugees exist, it would be far better for them (and for us) to be resettled in their own region and not in the pagan US where they will always be an uncomfortable fit.

    They come here simply because of economics - an American Uber driver lives better than even a middle class Uzbek back home.

    Replies: @Dissident

    , @bomag
    @Dissident


    Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands?
     
    You've bought into a meme here, but at least it admits some honesty in that immigration is used as a tool by jihadis to damage us.

    If a sovereign wreaks needless carnage and misery, you should punish those responsible, or demand compensation. It is not good policy to suggest genocide as a proper compensation.

    Replies: @Dissident

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Dissident


    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?
     
    No. As "ussr andy" said, we should just stop doing what we're doing there.

    Replies: @Dissident

    , @Art Deco
    @Dissident

    There is no refugee crisis in Uzbekistan and the deficiencies manifest in Arab societies and those adjacent at crafting a political scaffolding which maintains order without abusing the populace are their deficiency, not ours. There have been five insurrections on the South Arabian coast in the last 60 years. That isn't 'U.S. foreign policy'. That's how they do business with each other.

    Replies: @Dissident

  67. @Mr. Anon
    In 2016, Uzbekistan was one of the top five sources of immigrants under the diversity lottery.

    Aside from fullfilling the vital job of Uber-driver, has anyone even ever heard of an Uzbek immigrant in America of any note? Has anyone ever heard of an Uzbek of any note even in Uzbekistan? Other than this guy and the guy who ran down a bunch of people in the Berlin Christmas market last year, I can't think of any.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @jbwilson24, @a reader

    Don’t forget the stabby Uzbek student who killed a few women in Finland recently.

    Saw a ton of them in Moscow when I was there in summer. My Russian wife hates them with a passion, calling them invaders.

  68. @Dissident
    I agree with the many calls to end the "diversity visa" and all other Invite the World suicidal folly. (I am inclined to believe that Derbian Minimalism is the way to go on immigration.)

    But what about the Invade the World folly? I have seen no more than a few comments even mention it. Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands? Haven't at least some of the attackers explicitly declared as much?

    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

    Replies: @ussr andy, @Jack D, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    To the extent that we are culpable and complicit

    who of those killed were culpable and complicit?

    is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

    no, that’s totally immoral. you fix wrong (bombing their countries) by stopping doing it, not by continuing to do it while offering a little something in return. and, conversely, it’s immoral for someone who truly has a problem with American incursions to accept that bargain.

    regardless, for all their talk of payback, the Muzzies are killing people with, like, the least power to change anything – random passers by, partygoers etc. At least 19th century anarchists went for important people.

    It’s like Muzzies believe in democracy or something. Or, what’s more likely, coming from clannish peasant cultures, they vastly “misunderestimate” Western social cohesion (or rather, the lack of it.) They really don’t understand why killing even dozens in a country of 400 million fails to change American policy like snatching some from a neighboring rival tribe back in the mountains would change theirs.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @ussr andy

    I'm afraid that you seem to have misunderstood nearly everything I wrote.

    First, I never meant to suggest that the victims of this or any other Jihadi massacre of civilians were culpable and complicit in the reprehensible foreign policy I was referring-to (or, for that matter, that they deserved to suffer for any other reason).

    Second, I never meant to suggest that doing something such as taking in refugees would or could ever justify either what we (i.e., the US) have already done to Muslim lands in terms of invasions, bombing and other meddling or the continuance of any such actions on our part.

    I would have thought that my use of the phrase "the Invade the World folly" would have made clear that I firmly opposed such interventionist foreign policy.

    Third, I would ask you to kindly read, as well, my replies to the other comments that were made in reply to my post.


    They really don’t understand why killing even dozens in a country of 400 million fails to change American policy
     
    Are Jihadi massacres such as these rational and reasoned, committed with the intention and expectation of changing policy? Or are they acts of rage, vengeance and, sometimes at least, desperation (overlaid with/ couched in religious zealotry)? My impression is the latter, at least in most cases, and that is what I meant by 'blowback'.
  69. @silviosilver
    @Anon

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19r7ctge2lI

    (Warning: that classroom lacks diversity!)

    Replies: @jim jones

    Warning, Teacher was smoking a cigarette

  70. @Thomm
    This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of 'white'.

    https://www.advantour.com/img/uzbekistan/culture/uzbek-dance8.jpg

    This guy doesn't look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic 'Uzbek' passport.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Autochthon, @Anon, @neutral, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Frau Katze, @Patrick Harris, @Pericles

    Phenotypically, most people in ex-Soviet central Asia are a mix of Caucasoid and Asiatic traits (I have no idea what the genetics look like). But Islam tends to kick people out of the “white” club if there’s otherwise any doubt, which is why Georgians are “white” and Azeris aren’t.

  71. @Mr. Anon
    In 2016, Uzbekistan was one of the top five sources of immigrants under the diversity lottery.

    Aside from fullfilling the vital job of Uber-driver, has anyone even ever heard of an Uzbek immigrant in America of any note? Has anyone ever heard of an Uzbek of any note even in Uzbekistan? Other than this guy and the guy who ran down a bunch of people in the Berlin Christmas market last year, I can't think of any.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @jbwilson24, @a reader

    The perpetrator of the Berlin Christmas market attack last year was a Tunisian.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @a reader

    Thanks for the correction. I must have been thinking of another terrorist attack.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

  72. I really like how the NYT puts “chain migration” in scare-quotes, as though it’s a moronic coinage of Trump’s and indelicate to employ: it reminds them of “anchor baby,” evidently.

    I remember the expression being used in the 1980s in at least two college courses of mine taught by very eminent historians–Stephan Thernstrom and Oscar Handlin. From that I gathered that it’s a pretty common technical term.

    Handlin was a very interesting figure, by the way, who would have fascinated Steve Sailer for a number of reasons.

  73. @Bacchus
    So, this 3rd world tard (ahem, genius) wins the "lottery" and by law he gets to invite 23 (or more?) of his fam/friends? And, do those 23 get to invite 23 (or more)? And, so on? Just curious how this immigration stuff works.

    Replies: @bomag

    …by law he gets to invite 23 (or more?) of his fam/friends? And, do those 23 get to invite 23 (or more)? And, so on?

    Pretty much; not only by law, but just by the nature of getting a “pipeline via contacts” set up from one place to another. Some places seemed to have imported entire villages into the US.

  74. @Laugh Track
    @Autochthon


    Milana Vayntrub contributes significant…er…assets.

    But, no, I can’t think of any other Uzbeks I would be as eager to enter…er…to allow to enter….
     
    Agree on (((Milana))), (love those ATT commercials), but the off-camera SJW aspects -- note her Tweets -- just crush one's fantasies.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Milana is Jewish, not Uzbek. Vayntrub is the Romanization of the Russian spelling of the Ashkenazi name Weintraub (wine grape).

    A number of Russians/Jews ended up in Uzbekistan when it was part of the Soviet Union (and even earlier during the Russian Imperial period – Uzbekistan was Russian ruled starting around the 1860s). I think they still have maybe a 5% residual Russian minority. Real ethnic Uzbeks are E. Asian/ Central Asian/ Caucasian hybrids and look nothing like Milana.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    A number of Russians/Jews ended up in Uzbekistan when it was part of the Soviet Union (and even earlier during the Russian Imperial period – Uzbekistan was Russian ruled starting around the 1860s).
     
    Correct. Here is an early color picture (c. 1905) of some Jewish children with their rabbi in Uzbekistan.

    https://www.wdl.org/en/item/5802/


    Interestingly, the "Sart" people in Uzbekistan, who preceded the Asiatic-looking Uzbek tribes, looked distinctly Caucasian.

    Here is a picture of some Sart kids from the same collection.

    https://www.wdl.org/en/item/5796/view/1/1/
  75. @NOTA
    @Hail

    Mass shootings like the Las Vegas one are overwhelmingly caused by the shooter being nuts, even when he has some kind of political or social motive behind his shooting. There are exceptions, but most of them—the Orlando gay nightclub crazy, the nutball that shot Gabby Giffords, the creep who shot a bunch of people in Santa Barbara (apparently because they didn’t want to sleep with him), etc.—are 99% mental illness and 1% political ideology. We are a big violent country with a lot of crazies and a lot of guns, so we get a fair number of these.

    By giving these nuts lots of media attention, we encourage the next nut with a gun to shoot someplace up. We ought to bury the fuckers in unmarked graves and ban publication of their names or faces.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    Capitalism and the Industrial Revolution have democratized deadly efficient weaponry and delivered them to an atomized people. As I’ve remarked, in the gun control debate 2A advocates ignore the technology and Leftists ignore the atomization.

    A bipartisan ban on bump stocks probably could have passed in the aftermath of Vegas. But as noted, this horrific shooting seems to have gone off a lot of people’s radar.

    I suspect lawyers have sent spoliation letters to Mandalay Bay in preparation for lawsuits over Paddock managing to stock a small armory in his hotel room. Maybe there were some red flags, maybe not. But the wind sure seems to have been sucked out of any official action on the massacre. Recall the CSI swoop through the San Bernardino shooters’ apartment before quickly concluding nope, nothing to see here and inviting the media to tramp around. Maybe there wasn’t anything to see.

    Larger questions like why are we importing marginal people from antithetical creeds into an atomized, scaled society go unasked, among other questions.

  76. @Dr. X

    Democrats noted on Wednesday that Mr. Trump was quick to assail his political opponents and immigration policies less than 24 hours after the New York attack, even though his own White House declared it unseemly to talk about gun control policies in the immediate aftermath of the massacre in Las Vegas, in which a heavily armed American citizen shot and killed 58 people and injured hundreds of others.
     
    It's interesting that they brought Vegas back up, because after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it down the memory hole in one month's time.

    Speaking of Vegas, there's just way too much weird shit related to it, namely:

    -The shooter's house was broken into a week after the shooting, days after the place was swarmed by law enforcement. Nothing was taken, and there are no suspects.
    -The shooter's hard drive is missing from his computer and the cops can't find it.
    -The security guard Campos wasn't listed as a state-licensed guard.
    -The security guard Campos changed his story, then disappeared off the radar.
    -The sheriff quit giving public press conferences.
    -The shooter's brother was arrested form a kiddie porn charge supposedly dating back to 2014.
    -The shooter sent his GF to the Philippines with $100,00 and visited there himself last year.
    -The shooter was a former government employee.
    -The shooter was a licensed pilot.
    -The shooter supposedly made a multimillion-dollar "living" beating professional casinos at video poker.

    Yeah. Right.

    Replies: @Hail, @International Jew, @Jack D, @SteveRogers42

    As conspiracy theories go, this is all weak sauce. What Harvey Weinstein did was far, far worse and blasted whas his name (I forget already – Ballcock?) out of the headlines. They really haven’t found anything new to say and so there is nothing to write about.

  77. @Dissident
    I agree with the many calls to end the "diversity visa" and all other Invite the World suicidal folly. (I am inclined to believe that Derbian Minimalism is the way to go on immigration.)

    But what about the Invade the World folly? I have seen no more than a few comments even mention it. Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands? Haven't at least some of the attackers explicitly declared as much?

    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

    Replies: @ussr andy, @Jack D, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    This has nothing to do with Uzbekistan. The Uzbeks in the US are not refugees.

    To the extent that Muslim refugees exist in the world, they would exist even if the US would disappear from the face of the earth -Muslims were warring among each other long before the US ever existed and they will keep warring with each other whether the US interferes or not. If refugees exist, it would be far better for them (and for us) to be resettled in their own region and not in the pagan US where they will always be an uncomfortable fit.

    They come here simply because of economics – an American Uber driver lives better than even a middle class Uzbek back home.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @Jack D

    I never meant to suggest that Uzbeks in the U.S. were refugees or that the perpetrator of this latest Jihadi massacre in Manhattan was a refugee. Additionally, on the matter of refugees, I made no absolute statement nor expressed any conclusive opinion. I merely (in a final paragraph that was ancillary to the rest of my comment) asked questions and cited an argument that I suggested may be a valid one (fully allowing for the possibility that even if valid, it may ultimately be flawed and uncompelling).

    With those points hopefully made clear, I shall proceed to respond to some of your statements on the matter of Muslim refugees.


    Muslims were warring among each other long before the US ever existed and they will keep warring with each other whether the US interferes or not.
     
    I don't think anyone would deny that much. But would you deny that there are cases where our interference has, at the very least, made a bad situation considerably worse? And sometimes, such as in Iraq, a hell of a lot worse?

    If refugees exist, it would be far better for them (and for us) to be resettled in their own region and not in the pagan US where they will always be an uncomfortable fit.
     
    I agree that resettlement of refugees within their own region, as long as that is a viable option, is far preferable to importing them into an alien nation and culture. But what if the former is not a viable option? Basically, the question, in cases where a sovereign nation in one part of the world bears culpability in creating refugees in another part of the world is this: How far do the moral obligations of said sovereign nation extend toward said refugees? To what extent does the Pottery Barn rule (You break it, you own it) apply here?

    Actually, upon further reflection, I do not believe that is the only or ultimate question here. For even if it could be argued that the U.S. or any other sovereign Western nation would have a moral obligation to take in refugees from an alien culture, it could also be argued that such an obligation would be outweighed by consideration of the threat that said refugees pose to the citizens of the sovereign nation in question and the harm they are likely to cause it.
  78. @Dissident
    I agree with the many calls to end the "diversity visa" and all other Invite the World suicidal folly. (I am inclined to believe that Derbian Minimalism is the way to go on immigration.)

    But what about the Invade the World folly? I have seen no more than a few comments even mention it. Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands? Haven't at least some of the attackers explicitly declared as much?

    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

    Replies: @ussr andy, @Jack D, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands?

    You’ve bought into a meme here, but at least it admits some honesty in that immigration is used as a tool by jihadis to damage us.

    If a sovereign wreaks needless carnage and misery, you should punish those responsible, or demand compensation. It is not good policy to suggest genocide as a proper compensation.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @bomag


    It is not good policy to suggest genocide as a proper compensation.
     
    If you thought that I did any such thing then you have clearly misunderstood my comment. Jihadi massacres of civilians are murder. I absolutely do not consider them "good policy", "proper compensation" or in any other way just, justified or acceptable.

    Alas, each of the other three individuals who have replied to my comment as of this writing have clearly misunderstood what I wrote.

    It would seem most efficient to reply to all of them in a single post. Were I to do that, however, only the individual whose comment was the one I had specifically clicked "REPLY" under could receive email notification of my reply (if he had checked that option when posting his reply).* I will therefore try to make separate replies to each of the other three comments-in-question before long.

    *Note that this is a limitation in the otherwise excellent commenting software that Mr. Unz has implemented here. The ability to reply-to multiple comments in a single post, in which each of the comments being replied-to would automatically be linked-to, its text appear upon mouse-over and its author notified by email, would be most welcome.

  79. @Thomm
    This is unfortunate, since Uzbekistan is usually not seen as a terrorist hotbed. It is a Former Soviet Republic, and Uzbeks are usually included in the definition of 'white'.

    https://www.advantour.com/img/uzbekistan/culture/uzbek-dance8.jpg

    This guy doesn't look Uzbek. He might have been from elsewhere, and with a cosmetic 'Uzbek' passport.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Autochthon, @Anon, @neutral, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Frau Katze, @Patrick Harris, @Pericles

    The guy who did the truck terrorist attack in Stockholm earlier this year is an Uzbek too.

  80. @Hail
    @Dr. X


    after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it
     
    The theory that it was political terror (deliberately targeting Trump base voters), and that some undisclosed evidence proves this which has been covered up by all parties to the matter, to prevent revenge attacks.

    Do people around the Sailer comment section buy this? I have seen a few propose it without real evidence.

    As I see it, possible evidence for is: (1) Paddock targeted a Trump demographic, (2) Paddock began to buy guns during the hyper-emotionalized 2016 campaign and began heavily stockpiling after the Trump victory, (3) a 'Paddock as a new Charles Whitman' (the 1960s Clocktower Shooter) theory seems not to hold up because Whitman snapped one day suddenly and went on a rampage, while Paddock planned his massacre very deliberately, perhaps for almost a year (starting from the gun stockpiling beginning, it is reported, in Oct 2016).

    Evidence against is: (1) The shooter left no overt political trail in his past, seemingly, anywhere. None at all of any sort, even an opinion on a local race for dogcatcher (AFAIK). (2) there is reason to believe the shooter had serious mental health issues, inherited sociopathy from his father, recently aggravated as per his girlfriend's comments. I note that (2) does not exclude the possibility of a political motivation as the one could fuel the other.

    Replies: @NOTA, @Issac, @Pericles

    I thought the shooter was a Bernie Boomer, like James Hodgkinson who almost killed off the Republican congressional baseball team a short while ago. But the more we learn, at this point, the odder it gets. Maybe we just need to wait for the authorities to release more info to make some sense of it.

  81. @Jack D
    @Laugh Track

    Milana is Jewish, not Uzbek. Vayntrub is the Romanization of the Russian spelling of the Ashkenazi name Weintraub (wine grape).

    A number of Russians/Jews ended up in Uzbekistan when it was part of the Soviet Union (and even earlier during the Russian Imperial period - Uzbekistan was Russian ruled starting around the 1860s). I think they still have maybe a 5% residual Russian minority. Real ethnic Uzbeks are E. Asian/ Central Asian/ Caucasian hybrids and look nothing like Milana.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    A number of Russians/Jews ended up in Uzbekistan when it was part of the Soviet Union (and even earlier during the Russian Imperial period – Uzbekistan was Russian ruled starting around the 1860s).

    Correct. Here is an early color picture (c. 1905) of some Jewish children with their rabbi in Uzbekistan.

    https://www.wdl.org/en/item/5802/

    Interestingly, the “Sart” people in Uzbekistan, who preceded the Asiatic-looking Uzbek tribes, looked distinctly Caucasian.

    Here is a picture of some Sart kids from the same collection.

    https://www.wdl.org/en/item/5796/view/1/1/

  82. Progressives would have done a 180 degree turn if the terrorist had hung a confederate flag on his truck!

    Concerns over anti-Muslim backlash would have melted away.

    A man can dream can’t he?

  83. @MikeJa
    Is it too much to ask that they are all sent back home? Preferably with maximum publicity and minimal notice

    Replies: @Stephen Paul Foster, @SteveRogers42

    Yes, sending the Muslim’s back home would eliminate the Islamophobia: good for them; even better for us.

    See: http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2017/11/democrats-pronouns-and-muslim-immigrants.html

  84. Here is the deal.
    You take in all the refugees you created and I will take in all those I did.
    Sounds fair, no?

  85. @a reader
    @Mr. Anon

    The perpetrator of the Berlin Christmas market attack last year was a Tunisian.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Thanks for the correction. I must have been thinking of another terrorist attack.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    @Mr. Anon

    Stockholm, I think.

  86. @Autochthon
    @Mr. Anon

    Milana Vayntrub contributes significant...er...assets.

    But, no, I can’t think of any other Uzbeks I would be as eager to enter...er...to allow to enter....

    Replies: @Laugh Track, @Mr. Anon

    Apparently she was born in Uzbekistan, but she is about as “Uzbek” as Masha Gessen is “Russian”.

  87. @Dissident
    I agree with the many calls to end the "diversity visa" and all other Invite the World suicidal folly. (I am inclined to believe that Derbian Minimalism is the way to go on immigration.)

    But what about the Invade the World folly? I have seen no more than a few comments even mention it. Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands? Haven't at least some of the attackers explicitly declared as much?

    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

    Replies: @ussr andy, @Jack D, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

    No. As “ussr andy” said, we should just stop doing what we’re doing there.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @Mr. Anon

    Please see my replies to the other comments that were made in reply to my post. Thank you.

  88. @jim sweeney
    @wrd9

    The Philippines and many other countries are not permitted to be part of the lottery program and, while on the Philippines, if you're a single Philippine womn, it is almost impossible to obtain a B1 or B2 visa but, nowadays, the Chinese get them with ease wheras a few years ago, it was very difficult.

    There's little logic in immigration and in its departmental regs.

    By law, if you are born of an American citizen parent but not in the USA, you are still a citizen a la Ted Cruz being born in Canada to an American Mother. His Dad was not yet a citizen. The paperwork to obtain that citizenship is incredible and the filing fee is a litlle over $1,000! Imagine poor Filipinos or others finding a grand for filing fees?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    The paperwork to obtain that citizenship is incredible and the filing fee is a litlle over $1,000! Imagine poor Filipinos or others finding a grand for filing fees?

    They could always ask their misanthropic video-poker-playing sugar-daddy to spot them the cash.

  89. @AndrewR
    Schumer deserved to be called out for his role in the creation of the Divershitty Visa but it would have been nice if Trump had done it in a less flippant way. Trump is like a seventh grader in the back of the class making an endless number of smartass remarks

    Replies: @newrouter, @Wilkey, @Another Realist, @NickG, @MBlanc46

    Many of us wish that we had a better champion, but, at the moment, Trump is it.

  90. @Wilkey
    I think it’s even-handed to say that Diversity Visa program is the Bump Stock loophole of immigration policy.

    The definition of compromise, according to Obama, is "I get 98% of what I want and you get nothing." But the older definition of compromise is "you give me something I want in exchange for me giving something you want that I'm not thrilled with but can tolerate." Swapping a bump stock ban for an end to the diversity lottery would be a perfect example of compromise.

    Also note that while President Trump can't end the diversity lottery permanently he can reduce the number of annual recipients while he's president down to exactly zero. Trump should do that, along with reducing refugees down to zero, as well. It's time to play hardball on immigration negotiations. At the very least there would be 300,000 fewer new immigrants in the USA by the end of Trump's first time.

    Replies: @EdwardM

    Except this log-rolling — trading unrelated issues — is how we get ever-bigger government. The Republicans make government bigger for everyone in exchange for some illusory or temporary “benefit,” perhaps for special interests, or perhaps in a futile effort to get the media to like them.

    In your example, there is really no constituency for eliminating “bump stocks” (though it polls well and there’s not much of a constituency against it, either) whereas the diversity lottery is an outrage that most Americans probably oppose, especially now.

    Instead of the usual tactic of letting the effective negotiators Schumer and Pelosi get something in exchange, I would like to see them stand on principle (I know, an oxymoron) and put the diversity lottery to a stand-alone vote and let the Democrats defend it. That’s what majorities are supposed to be for.

  91. @Mr. Anon
    @a reader

    Thanks for the correction. I must have been thinking of another terrorist attack.

    Replies: @TomSchmidt

    Stockholm, I think.

  92. @Jonathan Mason
    Scottish comedian Billy Connolly also got a green card and a network TV show on the strength of his New Zealand-born wife winning a green card in the Morrison visa lottery.

    Replies: @FX Enderby

    Billy Connolly is alright. We might have preferred open borders with the UK / Canada / Australia / NZ if immigration policy had ever been decided by the public or common sense. But now it’s so screwed that Connolly has to use the diversity visa scam?

  93. @Perspective
    A large number of Uzbeks immigrated to the US over the previous years and many went to NYC. An excerpt from a 2015 article:

    'These are the New Uzbeks, the Brooklyn Uzbeks, the approximately 20,000 Muslim immigrants who grew up in independent Uzbekistan and arrived in New York over the past decade.

    Almost everyone on the bus, Sulton said, was a “lottery winner.” This meant they had received their green cards under the State Department’s “diversity visa program,” which affords better immigration odds to “underrepresented” nationalities like Uzbeks. With only 50,000 such visas given out each year, to get one is considered a great stroke of luck, especially since the Uzbek economy is in a near-perpetual shambles."

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/11/isis-brooklyn-uzbeks.html

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Travis

    http://www.usagreencardlottery.org/green-card-statistics.jsp

    Top ten diversity visa recipients of 2012
    __________Applicants__Winners
    1. Nigeria ___2,005,876 – 6,024
    2. Ghana ___774,557 – 5,832
    3. Ethiopia __785,318 – 4,902
    4. Uzbekistan_507,361 – 4,800
    5. Kenya __304,181 – 4,720
    6. Egypt __780,728 – 4,664
    7. Iran __547,755 – 4,453
    8. Congo __ 208,775 – 3,445
    9. SierraLeone -315,725 – 3,397
    10, Cameroon- 203,906 – 3,374

    needing this foolish program will reduce Muslim immigration significantly. About 300,000 Muslims have obtained green cards via this program over the last decade.

    • Replies: @Perspective
    @Travis

    If this program is eliminated, the number of Africans and Middle Easterns immigrating to the US will plunge. I didn't realize such a high percentage of Nigerians were visa lottery winners.

  94. @bomag
    @Dissident


    Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands?
     
    You've bought into a meme here, but at least it admits some honesty in that immigration is used as a tool by jihadis to damage us.

    If a sovereign wreaks needless carnage and misery, you should punish those responsible, or demand compensation. It is not good policy to suggest genocide as a proper compensation.

    Replies: @Dissident

    It is not good policy to suggest genocide as a proper compensation.

    If you thought that I did any such thing then you have clearly misunderstood my comment. Jihadi massacres of civilians are murder. I absolutely do not consider them “good policy”, “proper compensation” or in any other way just, justified or acceptable.

    Alas, each of the other three individuals who have replied to my comment as of this writing have clearly misunderstood what I wrote.

    It would seem most efficient to reply to all of them in a single post. Were I to do that, however, only the individual whose comment was the one I had specifically clicked “REPLY” under could receive email notification of my reply (if he had checked that option when posting his reply).* I will therefore try to make separate replies to each of the other three comments-in-question before long.

    *Note that this is a limitation in the otherwise excellent commenting software that Mr. Unz has implemented here. The ability to reply-to multiple comments in a single post, in which each of the comments being replied-to would automatically be linked-to, its text appear upon mouse-over and its author notified by email, would be most welcome.

  95. @MikeJa
    Is it too much to ask that they are all sent back home? Preferably with maximum publicity and minimal notice

    Replies: @Stephen Paul Foster, @SteveRogers42

    And the TSA could be transferred en masse to the Deportation Corps.

    Make Airline Flying Great Again!

  96. @Dr. X

    Democrats noted on Wednesday that Mr. Trump was quick to assail his political opponents and immigration policies less than 24 hours after the New York attack, even though his own White House declared it unseemly to talk about gun control policies in the immediate aftermath of the massacre in Las Vegas, in which a heavily armed American citizen shot and killed 58 people and injured hundreds of others.
     
    It's interesting that they brought Vegas back up, because after the saturation coverage for the first week the media just about totally disappeared it down the memory hole in one month's time.

    Speaking of Vegas, there's just way too much weird shit related to it, namely:

    -The shooter's house was broken into a week after the shooting, days after the place was swarmed by law enforcement. Nothing was taken, and there are no suspects.
    -The shooter's hard drive is missing from his computer and the cops can't find it.
    -The security guard Campos wasn't listed as a state-licensed guard.
    -The security guard Campos changed his story, then disappeared off the radar.
    -The sheriff quit giving public press conferences.
    -The shooter's brother was arrested form a kiddie porn charge supposedly dating back to 2014.
    -The shooter sent his GF to the Philippines with $100,00 and visited there himself last year.
    -The shooter was a former government employee.
    -The shooter was a licensed pilot.
    -The shooter supposedly made a multimillion-dollar "living" beating professional casinos at video poker.

    Yeah. Right.

    Replies: @Hail, @International Jew, @Jack D, @SteveRogers42

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    @SteveRogers42

    That's the LVMPD (note the ladycop and Taxidriver-hair guy) responding to reports of shots fired. August 27th, the evening after the McGregor/Mayweather nonsense, and a good five weeks prior to the Paddock attack. Seahawks' player Michael Bennett got tackled trying to run from the casino.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w7dxZwXXuY bodycam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLTh3UpOOJc Bennett hits the deck
    There was the mother of all hoohaa after, BLM-style, be raycis' cracka po-lice etc. Apart from the small detail that Bennett was lying his ass off.

    This is a red herring got up by the loonies/fake news purveyors in the chans, and for some reason has avoided all rational scrutiny. Needs to be knocked on the head quick-smart, as it conveniently derails the actual digging into this strange affair that is badly needed. Like the "I saw Stevie P. playing cards in Atlantic City the very next week" bollocks, it's so off-track, it glows in the dark. Smells of alphabetti sphagetti.

  97. @Travis
    @Perspective

    http://www.usagreencardlottery.org/green-card-statistics.jsp

    Top ten diversity visa recipients of 2012
    __________Applicants__Winners
    1. Nigeria ___2,005,876 - 6,024
    2. Ghana ___774,557 - 5,832
    3. Ethiopia __785,318 - 4,902
    4. Uzbekistan_507,361 - 4,800
    5. Kenya __304,181 - 4,720
    6. Egypt __780,728 - 4,664
    7. Iran __547,755 - 4,453
    8. Congo __ 208,775 - 3,445
    9. SierraLeone -315,725 - 3,397
    10, Cameroon- 203,906 - 3,374

    needing this foolish program will reduce Muslim immigration significantly. About 300,000 Muslims have obtained green cards via this program over the last decade.

    Replies: @Perspective

    If this program is eliminated, the number of Africans and Middle Easterns immigrating to the US will plunge. I didn’t realize such a high percentage of Nigerians were visa lottery winners.

  98. @Jack D
    @Dissident

    This has nothing to do with Uzbekistan. The Uzbeks in the US are not refugees.

    To the extent that Muslim refugees exist in the world, they would exist even if the US would disappear from the face of the earth -Muslims were warring among each other long before the US ever existed and they will keep warring with each other whether the US interferes or not. If refugees exist, it would be far better for them (and for us) to be resettled in their own region and not in the pagan US where they will always be an uncomfortable fit.

    They come here simply because of economics - an American Uber driver lives better than even a middle class Uzbek back home.

    Replies: @Dissident

    I never meant to suggest that Uzbeks in the U.S. were refugees or that the perpetrator of this latest Jihadi massacre in Manhattan was a refugee. Additionally, on the matter of refugees, I made no absolute statement nor expressed any conclusive opinion. I merely (in a final paragraph that was ancillary to the rest of my comment) asked questions and cited an argument that I suggested may be a valid one (fully allowing for the possibility that even if valid, it may ultimately be flawed and uncompelling).

    With those points hopefully made clear, I shall proceed to respond to some of your statements on the matter of Muslim refugees.

    Muslims were warring among each other long before the US ever existed and they will keep warring with each other whether the US interferes or not.

    I don’t think anyone would deny that much. But would you deny that there are cases where our interference has, at the very least, made a bad situation considerably worse? And sometimes, such as in Iraq, a hell of a lot worse?

    If refugees exist, it would be far better for them (and for us) to be resettled in their own region and not in the pagan US where they will always be an uncomfortable fit.

    I agree that resettlement of refugees within their own region, as long as that is a viable option, is far preferable to importing them into an alien nation and culture. But what if the former is not a viable option? Basically, the question, in cases where a sovereign nation in one part of the world bears culpability in creating refugees in another part of the world is this: How far do the moral obligations of said sovereign nation extend toward said refugees? To what extent does the Pottery Barn rule (You break it, you own it) apply here?

    Actually, upon further reflection, I do not believe that is the only or ultimate question here. For even if it could be argued that the U.S. or any other sovereign Western nation would have a moral obligation to take in refugees from an alien culture, it could also be argued that such an obligation would be outweighed by consideration of the threat that said refugees pose to the citizens of the sovereign nation in question and the harm they are likely to cause it.

  99. @ussr andy
    @Dissident


    To the extent that we are culpable and complicit
     
    who of those killed were culpable and complicit?

    is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

     

    no, that's totally immoral. you fix wrong (bombing their countries) by stopping doing it, not by continuing to do it while offering a little something in return. and, conversely, it's immoral for someone who truly has a problem with American incursions to accept that bargain.

    regardless, for all their talk of payback, the Muzzies are killing people with, like, the least power to change anything - random passers by, partygoers etc. At least 19th century anarchists went for important people.

    It's like Muzzies believe in democracy or something. Or, what's more likely, coming from clannish peasant cultures, they vastly "misunderestimate" Western social cohesion (or rather, the lack of it.) They really don't understand why killing even dozens in a country of 400 million fails to change American policy like snatching some from a neighboring rival tribe back in the mountains would change theirs.

    Replies: @Dissident

    I’m afraid that you seem to have misunderstood nearly everything I wrote.

    First, I never meant to suggest that the victims of this or any other Jihadi massacre of civilians were culpable and complicit in the reprehensible foreign policy I was referring-to (or, for that matter, that they deserved to suffer for any other reason).

    Second, I never meant to suggest that doing something such as taking in refugees would or could ever justify either what we (i.e., the US) have already done to Muslim lands in terms of invasions, bombing and other meddling or the continuance of any such actions on our part.

    I would have thought that my use of the phrase “the Invade the World folly” would have made clear that I firmly opposed such interventionist foreign policy.

    Third, I would ask you to kindly read, as well, my replies to the other comments that were made in reply to my post.

    They really don’t understand why killing even dozens in a country of 400 million fails to change American policy

    Are Jihadi massacres such as these rational and reasoned, committed with the intention and expectation of changing policy? Or are they acts of rage, vengeance and, sometimes at least, desperation (overlaid with/ couched in religious zealotry)? My impression is the latter, at least in most cases, and that is what I meant by ‘blowback’.

  100. @Mr. Anon
    @Dissident


    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?
     
    No. As "ussr andy" said, we should just stop doing what we're doing there.

    Replies: @Dissident

    Please see my replies to the other comments that were made in reply to my post. Thank you.

  101. @Dissident
    I agree with the many calls to end the "diversity visa" and all other Invite the World suicidal folly. (I am inclined to believe that Derbian Minimalism is the way to go on immigration.)

    But what about the Invade the World folly? I have seen no more than a few comments even mention it. Are at least some and perhaps many of these Jihadi massacres that we continue to suffer not blowback from the carnage and misery that we have wreaked and continue to wreak upon Muslim civilians in their own lands? Haven't at least some of the attackers explicitly declared as much?

    Also, to what extent is U.S. foreign policy responsible for creating refugee crises in various places around the world? To the extent that we are culpable and complicit, is there not an argument to be made that we have a moral obligation to take in refugees that we created?

    Replies: @ussr andy, @Jack D, @bomag, @Mr. Anon, @Art Deco

    There is no refugee crisis in Uzbekistan and the deficiencies manifest in Arab societies and those adjacent at crafting a political scaffolding which maintains order without abusing the populace are their deficiency, not ours. There have been five insurrections on the South Arabian coast in the last 60 years. That isn’t ‘U.S. foreign policy’. That’s how they do business with each other.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Dissident
    @Art Deco

    1.) Please see my reply to Jack D. above.

    2.) Would you deny that U.S. Invade the World foreign policy has wreaked much carnage and misery upon Muslim lands?

    3.) If you would not deny that, then hasn't said carnage and misery been at least partly to blame for at least some of the Jihadi attacks we have suffered?

  102. @SteveRogers42
    @Dr. X

    Additional oddities:

    https://squawker.org/politics/4chanvegas/

    https://twitter.com/MikeTokes/status/924508300783185921/video/1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd-qz6ei-UM&feature=youtu.be

    And who the [email protected] is Sheriff Lombardo's handler?

    https://i.redd.it/cuu09ljqxmsz.jpg

    Replies: @Expletive Deleted

    That’s the LVMPD (note the ladycop and Taxidriver-hair guy) responding to reports of shots fired. August 27th, the evening after the McGregor/Mayweather nonsense, and a good five weeks prior to the Paddock attack. Seahawks’ player Michael Bennett got tackled trying to run from the casino.

    bodycam

    Bennett hits the deck
    There was the mother of all hoohaa after, BLM-style, be raycis’ cracka po-lice etc. Apart from the small detail that Bennett was lying his ass off.

    This is a red herring got up by the loonies/fake news purveyors in the chans, and for some reason has avoided all rational scrutiny. Needs to be knocked on the head quick-smart, as it conveniently derails the actual digging into this strange affair that is badly needed. Like the “I saw Stevie P. playing cards in Atlantic City the very next week” bollocks, it’s so off-track, it glows in the dark. Smells of alphabetti sphagetti.

  103. @eah
    OT

    The family and friends of Seth Rich would probably agree -- BTW, how's that investigation going?

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Screen-Shot-2017-10-31-at-5.00.00-PM-e1509487287419.png

    Replies: @eah

  104. @Art Deco
    @Dissident

    There is no refugee crisis in Uzbekistan and the deficiencies manifest in Arab societies and those adjacent at crafting a political scaffolding which maintains order without abusing the populace are their deficiency, not ours. There have been five insurrections on the South Arabian coast in the last 60 years. That isn't 'U.S. foreign policy'. That's how they do business with each other.

    Replies: @Dissident

    1.) Please see my reply to Jack D. above.

    2.) Would you deny that U.S. Invade the World foreign policy has wreaked much carnage and misery upon Muslim lands?

    3.) If you would not deny that, then hasn’t said carnage and misery been at least partly to blame for at least some of the Jihadi attacks we have suffered?

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