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Here’s an article I wrote for UPI on the evening of September 11, 2001 (due to the surfeit of events, it was actually published a few days later):
Bush had called for laxer airport security
by Steve Sailer
UPI, September 11, 2001LOS ANGELES, Sep. 11 — Ironically, in an attempt to appeal to the growing number of Arab-American and Muslim voters, exactly eleven months ago George W. Bush called for weakening airport security procedures aimed at deterring hijackers.
On Oct. 11, 2000, during the second presidential debate, the Republican candidate attacked two anti-terrorist policies that had long irritated Arab citizens of the U.S.
At present [i.e., the evening of 9/11], of course, there is no definite evidence that Arabs or Muslims were involved in today’s terrorist assaults. Many incorrectly assumed after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing that Middle Easterners were involved. Nor is there direct evidence that Bush’s attack on airline safety procedures made the four simultaneous hijackings easier to pull off.
Bush said during the nationally televised debate, “Arab-Americans are racially profiled in what’s called secret evidence. People are stopped, and we got to do something about that.” Then-Governor Bush went on, “My friend, Sen. Spence Abraham [the Arab-American Republic Senator from Michigan], is pushing a law to make sure that, you know, Arab-Americans are treated with respect. So racial profiling isn’t just an issue at the local police forces. It’s an issue throughout our society. And as we become a diverse society, we’re going to have to deal with it more and more.”
Bush’s plug for Senator Abraham was intended to help Abraham in close re-election battle, which he ultimately lost. (Abraham is now the Bush Administration’s Secretary of Energy.) More important personally to Bush was the swing state of Michigan’s 18 electoral votes, which Al Gore eventually won narrowly. Arab-Americans, centered in Dearborn and Flint, make up about four percent of the population of Michigan, the most of any state.
In the debate, Bush conflated two separate policies that Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans felt discriminate against them: the heightened suspicions faced by Middle Eastern-looking travelers at airport security checkpoints and the government’s use of “secret evidence” in immigration hearings of suspected terrorists. Yet, despite Bush’s confusion, Arab-Americans appreciated his gesture. Four days after the debate, the Arab-American Political Action Committee endorsed Bush.
The day after Bush’s remarks, 17 American sailors died in a terrorist attack in the Arab nation of Yemen. The bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, however, did not stop Vice President Al Gore from echoing Bush’s calls to end these two anti-terrorist techniques in a meeting with Arab-American leaders on October 14, 2000.
According to a spokesperson for a leading Arab-American organization, people of Arab descent are stopped and searched at airports more often than many other ethnic groups. Some refer to this as Flying While Arab or Flying While Muslim. These terms are intended as plays on the popular phrase “Driving While Black,” which is widely used to criticize police departments for stopping more black than white motorists.
This year, both Bush and his Attorney General John Ashcroft have called for an end to racial profiling.
The Federal Aviation Administration provides airline and airport personnel with the Computer-Assisted Passenger Prescreening system to help them identify suspicious travelers. It relies on a secret profile of the characteristics of typical hijackers and terrorists.
Bush’s Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta has said that “the security procedures are not based on the race, ethnicity, religion or gender of passengers” Yet, the system is widely believed to use other information – such as whether the traveler is going to or coming from the Middle East – that tends to “disparately impact” Arab and Muslims.
None of the ethnic rights groups, however, has offered any data to dispute the widespread assumption that in the three decades since the Palestine Liberation Organization invented skyjacking, a disproportionate number of hijackers and plane bombers have had Middle Eastern ties.
Nonetheless, the Bush Administration publicly agrees with the civil rights organizations that even a nonracial airport profiling system that had merely a disparate impact on Arabs and Muslims would be objectionable. Secretary Mineta said, “We also want to assure that in practice, the system does not disproportionately select members of any particular minority group.” Of course, if Arabs and Muslims are disproportionately more likely to hijack airliners, and the profiling system does not end up disproportionately targeting them, then system wouldn’t work very well at preventing hijackings.
To ensure that no disparate impact is occurring, the Bush Administration carried out in June a three-week study, first planned by the Clinton Administration, of whether or not profiling at the Detroit airport disparately impacts Arabs.
The results of the study have not been released. Nor is it known whether the secret profiles have been relaxed – they are kept secret in order to keep hijackers guessing.
However, on June 6th Attorney General Ashcroft told Congress, “We want the right training, we want the right kind of discipline, we want the right kind of detection measures and the right kind of remediation measures, because racial profiling doesn’t belong in the federal government’s operational arsenal.”
Besides airport profiling, Arab-American activists long demanded the repeal of the “secret evidence” section of the 1996 Anti-Terrorism Act. To prevent terrorist gangs from murdering U.S. government secret informants, this law allows the government to provide evidence from unidentified moles in the immigration hearings of foreigners suspected of terrorist links. The government has deported or detained a number of Arabs hoping to immigrate to the U.S. due to testimony by witnesses they were never allowed to confront.
Although Abraham’s bill repealing the use of secret evidence died in 2000, during his confirmation hearing, Ashcroft endorsed the ban on secret evidence. He told Congress in June that the Bush Administration has not used secret evidence.
As the practice has come under increasing attack, the number of Arab immigrants detained on secret evidence has dropped sharply. Hussein Ibish of the American Arab Anti-discrimination Committee told UPI in June, “Two years ago there were 25 in prison,” he said. “Now we’re down to only one.”
Also of interest, as I blogged in 2006:
It was not until 2005 that Michael Tuohey surfaced. He was the veteran U.S. Air ticket agent in Portland, ME who checked in Mohammed Atta, the leader of the 19 9/11 terrorists, and a companion on the first leg of their trip that ended in the World Trade Center. Tuohey was interviewed by Oprah Winfrey:
Michael Tuohey was going to work like he had for 37 years, but little did he know that this day would change his life forever. On September 11, 2001, Tuohey, a ticket agent for U.S. Airways, checked in terrorist Mohammed Atta for a flight that started a chain of events that would change history.
Tuohey was working the U.S. Airways first-class check-in desk when two men, Atta and his companion Abdul Azziz-Alomari, approached his counter. From all outward appearances, the men seemed to be normal businessmen, but Tuohey felt something was wrong.
“I got an instant chill when I looked at [Atta]. I got this grip in my stomach and then, of course, I gave myself a political correct slap…I thought, ‘My God, Michael, these are just a couple of Arab businessmen.’”
Tuohey also told David Hench of the Portland Press Herald:
Then his eyes locked on Atta.
“It just sent chills through you. You see his picture in the paper (now). You see more life in that picture than there is in flesh and blood,” Tuohey said.
Then Tuohey went through an internal debate that still haunts him.
“I said to myself, ‘If this guy doesn’t look like an Arab terrorist, then nothing does.’ Then I gave myself a mental slap, because in this day and age, it’s not nice to say things like this,” he said. “You’ve checked in hundreds of Arabs and Hindus and Sikhs, and you’ve never done that. I felt kind of embarrassed.”
It wasn’t just Atta’s demeanor that caught Tuohey’s attention.
“When I looked at their tickets, they had first-class, one-way tickets – $2,500 tickets. Very unusual,” he said. “I guess they’re not coming back. Maybe this is the end of their trip.”
Worked out well, didn’t it?
With enough energy within N. America to fuel the US economy for centuries to come, we should be having nothing to do with the Middle East. It’s the Chinese, Europeans and Japanese that need Persian Gulf oil. Let them deal with that part of the world.
Better yet, expand US oil and gas production and export ports so we can sell our oil and gas overseas. This would put a dent in our trade deficit with China way more than Trump’s tariffs and negotiations.
How would things be different if China was mediating the Israeli/ Palestinian dispute? I'm honestly curious. Let Russia and China dip their toes in that issue.Replies: @Lagertha
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/072915/how-petrodollars-affect-us-dollar.asp
Might be a red flag!
My step-daughter who is just starting 6th grade came home from school today and said it was pretty boring, and she didn’t get to do much clarinet practice, because all the teachers were talking about 9/11.
Eager to know how what our children are learning, I asked what they had been saying.
“Something about how some tourists came and killed a whole lot of Americans for no reason”, came the answer.
So I was able to rest easy knowing that my kid is immune to indoctrination.
The same failed experiment that sought to protect criminals from law enforcement (and still aggressively opposes profiling) is moving toward profiling people based on their social media statements. Not to locate terrorists, of course, but to eliminate political dissent. People in the future will die in Islamic terrorism but, thank God, nobody will know.
Profiling is learning.
Hindsight is 20/20. I’m not sure what Tuohey could have done even if he had acted on his suspicions.
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.
The law that Bush advocated changing hadn’t actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.
'E don't obey no orders unless they is 'is own. [Kipling]
Unscheduled stop mid Atlantic.Replies: @AnotherDad
What if they had? A boxcutter was entirely legal to carry on a plane at the time.
I myself had carried a Leatherman onto planes over a hundred times. Every so often somebody would pull out a tape and measure the knife blade. A blade 4" or more was illegal to carry on.
The Leatherman blade was 3.5". They'd measure the blade, hand the knife back and wish me a good flight.
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/amazing-but-true
OT: San Diego on the verge of a Jewess Takeover. The leading candidate for mayor is Barbara Bry, who founded several tech companies and represents La Jolla on the city council. The leading candidate for the open congressional seat (safe dem) that covers the center of the city is Sara Jacobs, granddaughter of the billionaire founder of Qualcomm, Irwin Jacobs.
Jacobs will first have to dispatch in the primary the practical, plump, pussy-preferring-powerhouse Georgette Gomez (pictured below on the left).
If Gomez wins she’d be the first Mexican lesbian mayor of a major city, and also the first with one of those disgusting ear gauge things.
Some comedian,I think it was Greg Giraldo,said a big break for him was opening for Chris Rock. Being associated with Rock gave him access to top celebrities.
At one backstage party he met Barbra Streisand.
"I am such fan of yours Miss Streisand!"
"Shut the fuck up,I'm Mickey Rourke!"
Anyway,Unz had a great story by Gilad Atzmon about the Zwi Migdal,who kidnapped jewish girls for sex slavery. Sad.
One Rachel Leiberman,who fought her Jewish overlords relentlessly to be allowed to practice her religion,was able to get cooperation from the authorities in Buenos Aires,to break up the ring.
Imagine a movie about that. The cognitive dissonance!
I wonder if Jewish actors would ham it up like whitesg do,playing evil types. Let a white play a Nazi,he is happy as hell.
Leiberman is a Jewess I can get behind!Replies: @Jack D, @Lot
Or perhaps Jeffrey E. telling some young candidate he'll get the backing he needs,but first...
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
Have you ever flown into Israel? There is a great deal they could have done. There is no way that the 9/11 hijackers would have passed Israeli airport security. Ten minutes (ten minutes!!!) of interrogation by trained security professionals, as opposed to whatever it is we use in the United States, would have torn apart their shallow cover stories (these guys were not the brightest) and shut the operation down.
Another 9/11 'reform' that has 'backfired' was the secure cockpit door. Since 9/11 at least 4 commercial flights have crashed due to the deliberate act of the pilot. 3 of the 4 were Muslim pilots and in at least 3 out of the four one of the pilots left the cockpit allowing the remaining pilot to seize control of the plane. In the German instance the pilot was locked out and probably the Malaysian airlner as well. in the Egyptian airline incident the pilot was able to re-enter the cockpit but unable to stop the dive into the Atlantic. I don't think the situation in the Indonesian airliner has ever been resolved.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Dave, @Stan Adams
1. The people questioning you are clever Jews, not 85 IQ brown people. What are the chances that you could get clever Jews to work for the TSA for $15/hr? Atta was not that smart (actually he was - he had masters degree from a decent German university) and Ari could have poked holes in his cover story but I'm not sure that D'Shaun could have.
2. The volume of flights going and coming to Israel is tiny vs. the US. It's almost all international flights - the country is the size of NJ and barely has a domestic airline industry. There's no way that the vast US system could stand up to Israeli style questioning and not grind to a halt. A 787 seats 300. 10 minutes of questioning each is 3,000 minutes (50 man hours) of questioning. Just to fly one plane. Even if you have 50 people doing the questioning it's still going to take an hour just to launch 1 flight. But we have 87,000 flights per day.Replies: @Twinkie, @Clifford Brown, @istevefan, @Known Fact
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
The ‘eathen in ‘is blindness bows down to wood an’ stone —
‘E don’t obey no orders unless they is ‘is own. [Kipling]
Better yet, expand US oil and gas production and export ports so we can sell our oil and gas overseas. This would put a dent in our trade deficit with China way more than Trump’s tariffs and negotiations.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Kronos, @Lagertha, @Redneck farmer
North America is good, especially once we include Greenland. If oil prices shoot up, we can always start doing business again with Venezuela like any other “rational” state actor.
How would things be different if China was mediating the Israeli/ Palestinian dispute? I’m honestly curious. Let Russia and China dip their toes in that issue.
Eighteen years later, 9/11/01 has exposed the U.S. for what it is: a Grade A, 1st Class cluster fuck of clownish proportions.
Not only did we fail to “racially profile” Atta & Co., we increased Muslim and Arab immigration and refused to close our border. We failed to “racially profile” Maj. Nidal Hasan, the Tsarnaev brothers, Omar Mateen, Syed Farook, and Seung Hui Cho.
Instead, we subjected all Americans to illegal 24-7 digital surveillance, and treated every 80-year-old white retiree boarding a flight for Ft. Myers as a potential “terrorist” and subjected them to naked body scans by the TSA. We created an Orwellian-sounding “Department of Homeland Security” which has secured absolutely nothing. We now have militarized cops running around in Kevlar with M4s in MRAPs treating the American people as if they were the occupied population of a foreign enemy. We have turned Washington, D.C. into an armed imperial encampment. Fifteen of the hijackers were Saudis, yet we attacked Iraq, which was not involved in 9/11, instead of Saudi Arabia. We have had troops in Afghanistan for eighteen fucking years despite the fact that Osama bin Laden hasn’t been there since 2001 and the Taliban had no direct involvement in 9/11. We attacked Syria without any declaration of war to defeat the “Islamic State,” yet we deny that 9/11 had anything to do with Islam.
And we tend to forget that 9/11 was the second Muslim attack on the same target… but between the first attack and the second attack, the president had more important things to do — like putting his dick in a Jewish intern’s mouth instead of paying attention to our national security.
But hey… at least we got 18 years of flag-waving and maudlin sobbing about our heroic troops and our heroic cops and firefighters out of the deal.
correct. i posted about it on steve’s blog at the time.
Norman Mineta was the main problem. herr derr, interment.
this was around the time Eric Shinseki was in charge of the US Army, and took away the black beret from the Rangers, and gave it to everybody.
America was in a full blown diversity golden age then, boosted by 50 years of winning. winning war after war, economic battle after economic battle, and in the middle of the semiconductor and PC computer age, boosting yearly GDP growth to 5%. you might even say, this was the time when America actually could afford diversity, because it had been on a 50 year winning streak and built up such a massive mountain of accomplishments and money. GW Bush was the ultimate boomer goober, maximum nominal feel good diversity was one of his cornerstone policies. thanks to him the republicans actually beat the democrats to several milestones, like first attorney general who wasn’t a pale penis person.
all that achievement and accomplishment was completely frittered away on stupid bullshit diversity and foreign wars for nothing. now the US is in real trouble, and the age of being able to afford feel good diversity stuff is in the past, but while America’s position as undisputed superpower is fading into the distance, it’s focus on diversity is stronger than ever.
"Summary: H.R.4655 — 105th Congress (1997-1998)All Information (Except Text)
There are 2 summaries for H.R.4655. Bill summaries are authored by CRS.
Shown Here:
Passed House amended (10/05/1998)
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.Authorizes the President, after notifying specified congressional committees, to provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations: (1) grant assistance for radio and television broadcasting to Iraq; (2) Department of Defense (DOD) defense articles and services and military education and training (IMET); and (3) humanitarian assistance, with emphasis on addressing the needs of individuals who have fled from areas under the control of the Hussein regime. Prohibits assistance to any group or organization that is engaged in military cooperation with the Hussein regime. Authorizes appropriations.Directs the President to designate: (1) one or more Iraqi democratic opposition organizations that meet specified criteria as eligible to receive assistance under this Act; and (2) additional such organizations which satisfy the President's criteria.Urges the President to call upon the United Nations to establish an international criminal tribunal for the purpose of indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi officials who are responsible for crimes against humanity, genocide, and other criminal violations of international law.Expresses the sense of the Congress that once the Saddam Hussein regime is removed from power in Iraq, the United States should support Iraq's transition to democracy by providing humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people and democracy transition assistance to Iraqi parties and movements with democratic goals, including convening Iraq's foreign creditors to develop a multilateral response to the foreign debt incurred by the Hussein regime."
https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-bill/4655
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
Bush wasn’t just talking about changing a law (as the Ashcroft quote clarifies), this was a huge cultural thing that reached beyond law enforcement. In the name of non-discrimination, ignore that little voice that tells you to ask questions.
Calling BS on this. The absolute taboo on suspicion of Arabs is a post-9/11 concept. And 99% of Americans had no idea what a Sikh even was until right after 9/11 when we were all told very loudly and seriously about the guys with turbans and how they weren’t even muslim and so on.
Joke: 9/11 bc they hate us for our freedoms
Broke: 9/11 to get US involved in Afghanistan
Woke: 9/11 as the ultimate gaslighting op to make sure we couldn’t object when arabs start invading by the millions over the next 2 decades
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
Sikhs: Air India 182, Toronto Montreal London Delhi.
Unscheduled stop mid Atlantic.
You import foreign peoples and their foreign culture, dress, religion, norms, behaviors and foreign quarrels.
Several murdered witnesses. The principals, never convicted--murdered witnesses, botched investigation, unhelpful "community" --still living free and clear, on Canadian passports.
That's multiculturalism for you. At the very minimum this should have ended Sikh immigration ... as 911 should have done for Muslims--if nothing before did the trick.
But no: Diversity is our strength!
Better yet, expand US oil and gas production and export ports so we can sell our oil and gas overseas. This would put a dent in our trade deficit with China way more than Trump’s tariffs and negotiations.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Kronos, @Lagertha, @Redneck farmer
Unfortunately, there’s more to Middle East oil than meets the eye.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/072915/how-petrodollars-affect-us-dollar.asp
Israel doesn’t have domestic airline flights. They can focus on international travelers who must first secure a visa to board an Israel bound flight.
Another 9/11 ‘reform’ that has ‘backfired’ was the secure cockpit door. Since 9/11 at least 4 commercial flights have crashed due to the deliberate act of the pilot. 3 of the 4 were Muslim pilots and in at least 3 out of the four one of the pilots left the cockpit allowing the remaining pilot to seize control of the plane. In the German instance the pilot was locked out and probably the Malaysian airlner as well. in the Egyptian airline incident the pilot was able to re-enter the cockpit but unable to stop the dive into the Atlantic. I don’t think the situation in the Indonesian airliner has ever been resolved.
The issue at hand is whether ten minutes of interrogation of suspicious passengers works and Israel proves that it does. I am not suspicious (as far as I know) and I have been interrogated on my trips to Israel. I found the experience infuriating, but I also acknowledge that it works and was objectively quite impressive.
I may avoid the country in the future if possible, but the Israelis know what they are doing when it comes to passenger screening and interrogation.
Complete nonsense. I've flown from Eilat to Tel Aviv. It took less than an hour, and I was grilled by security, probably for being both American and gentile, although the guard was intrigued that my name was David. He asked several times if I had attended Hebrew school.
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them.
What if they had? A boxcutter was entirely legal to carry on a plane at the time.
I myself had carried a Leatherman onto planes over a hundred times. Every so often somebody would pull out a tape and measure the knife blade. A blade 4″ or more was illegal to carry on.
The Leatherman blade was 3.5″. They’d measure the blade, hand the knife back and wish me a good flight.
Jeez, I remember being in elementary school during the 9/11 attacks. The home room teacher was like “someone flew some planes into some New York buildings, remain calm.” After a few days we had to write how badly we felt about all the people who died. (If I recall correctly we had one girl in my school who’s father died in the World Trade Center.)
I can’t help but feel foreign policy was strikingly new to myself and my parents after the event. Kids get a pass but many older people were like “what country is that? What’s going on over there?”
Israeli airport security is great. Except:
1. The people questioning you are clever Jews, not 85 IQ brown people. What are the chances that you could get clever Jews to work for the TSA for $15/hr? Atta was not that smart (actually he was – he had masters degree from a decent German university) and Ari could have poked holes in his cover story but I’m not sure that D’Shaun could have.
2. The volume of flights going and coming to Israel is tiny vs. the US. It’s almost all international flights – the country is the size of NJ and barely has a domestic airline industry. There’s no way that the vast US system could stand up to Israeli style questioning and not grind to a halt. A 787 seats 300. 10 minutes of questioning each is 3,000 minutes (50 man hours) of questioning. Just to fly one plane. Even if you have 50 people doing the questioning it’s still going to take an hour just to launch 1 flight. But we have 87,000 flights per day.
The Israelis are good at the interrogation game. Four different interlocutors repeatedly asking the same questions. The first interrogator is an extremely attractive, slightly timid Israeli woman fresh out of the army with the final boss being a guy who was the spitting image of Ehud Barak. They called my Israeli business contacts and spoke to them about me in hebrew. A language that I do not speak beyond a handful of obscenities. They ask you if you know any Israelis so I ended up having them call the Israeli guy who lived on my block in Brooklyn! (He vouched for me.) Machine guns and german shepherds were involved. I hit some sort of tripwire with the Israelis or perhaps I just got the lucky winning ticket for the random hardcore treatment.
The entire experience was infuriating, but because they know exactly what they are doing, they personally escorted me to the gate just in time. This seems to be something that they do relatively often. My seat companion for the flight was an Israeli air marshal who was built like Tony Soprano. The perfect embodiment of strong fat. He easily had a hundred pounds on me. I was not going to get away with anything. He was armed and made no secret about it.
Once on the flight, the food was quite good all things considered and the flight landed on time. My three other experiences were interrogations of less than ten minutes, but regardless lesson learned!!! All future meetings with Israelis will be done in the United States or over Skype.
As for $15/hr, I have been pretty consistently for higher wages for Americans, especially for jobs that cannot be outsourced to China. If higher wages save American lives, I am on board.
As for Atta, he likely was intelligent, but I think he was clearly lacking in so-called emotional intelligence. He stood out for a reason. Extremely unsettling and dark, weirdo type. Much of the rest of the crew were dumb muscle and would easily be caught up in a half way decent interrogation.
https://youtu.be/qspcQr-Y9_U
In August 2001 actor James Woods was on a dry run with the 9/11 hijackers (including Atta) and at the time he voiced his suspicions to the pilot that they were potential hijackers. A report was made and went to the FAA. Nothing was done.
Actually, lack of diversity was the problem:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49582852
Better yet, expand US oil and gas production and export ports so we can sell our oil and gas overseas. This would put a dent in our trade deficit with China way more than Trump’s tariffs and negotiations.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Kronos, @Lagertha, @Redneck farmer
I love this idea! I thought it was interesting that Trump was sort of wink-winking about Venezuela today! Hahaaa – I would love to watch China take on the Muslim world (oil rich countries) and Israel & the hapless, smug EU cuntries. USA needs to let EU solve their own smug Green Deal project, and let them squirm about which oil/gas country they need to buy their fuel from. Pass the popcorn, indeed!……..I think the rest of the world really needs to experience the total sense of confusion that the American people did, 18 years ago, today!
How would things be different if China was mediating the Israeli/ Palestinian dispute? I'm honestly curious. Let Russia and China dip their toes in that issue.Replies: @Lagertha
pass the popcorn!
Qualcomm was a loser investment. Qualcomm is a disgrace as is any daughter who dares to bring her daddy’s shameless, phony company into a conversation.
Kinda OT:
Is Florida a hub for spy activity? The 9/11 hijackers seem to have based out of there more than any other state and 13 of them had IDs/drivers licenses from there. Plus Epstein, the Pulse shooter and the Israeli ‘art students’.
Have you heard the latest about the Parkland shooter? He was even crazier than we knew:
https://nypost.com/2019/09/08/parkland-dad-massacre-was-avoidable-if-district-hadnt-enabled-deranged-student/
My step-daughter who is just starting 6th grade came home from school today and said it was pretty boring, and she didn't get to do much clarinet practice, because all the teachers were talking about 9/11.
Eager to know how what our children are learning, I asked what they had been saying.
"Something about how some tourists came and killed a whole lot of Americans for no reason", came the answer.
So I was able to rest easy knowing that my kid is immune to indoctrination.Replies: @Lagertha, @El Dato
as your daughter gets older, she will learn that 9/11 was a really bumbled inside job by some really evil people, both American and foreign.
I was mostly upset (my kids were young) because I realized that really evil people really do exist…and kill, and get away with killing and starting wars. Everything comes down to money and sex. And, we allow too many psychopaths to rule the world. It needs to stop and, I feel somewhat better that it just might. Good will conquer evil, as much as it has in history, but it will still be a long and treacherous time to stop these destructive people who want power and control over us.
The absolute taboo on suspicion of Arabs is a post-9/11 concept.
Actually, Bush had selected Norman Mineta to be his Transportation Secretary to crack down on profiling of Arabs, which Mineta launched a few months before 9/11.
Mineta saw ending profiling of Arabs as his vengeance upon whites for interning him as a child during WWII>
Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea.Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Corvinus, @Twinkie, @Anon
I don’t recall any successful terrorist incidents in the United States involving airlines after 9/11, so the security measures in place must be doing some good. They are, however, intrusive.
The United States has permitted more Muslim immigration after 9/11 than it did before, a policy of civilizational madness! The proper response to 9/11 would have been the immediate suspension of all visa applications of people from Muslim countries, the revocation of all visas for people from Muslim countries presently in the U.S. (accredited diplomats from Muslim countries excepted from the preceding two policies) and a program compensating Muslim U.S. citizens to renounce their citizenship and leave the U.S. George W. Bush missed a colossal opportunity to use the trauma of 3/11 change immigration and visa policy for the better. Instead the U.S. undertook the fool’s errands of attacking Afghanistan and Iraq at the behest of Israel.
The one silver lining in this civilizational madness of importing millions of Muslims may be the understanding by national security types that any further wars with Muslims (Iran, ground troops in Syria, Yemen, Sudan, etc...) will surely provoke a violent terrorist response by Muslims living in the USA, therefore the national security apparatchiks may conclude that henceforth it is prudent to avoid war with Muslims, denying the neo-cons. But this is all wishful thinking.
I’ve often wondered whether it would have been a good idea to have expelled the Japanese who had been interred during World War II. The removal of citizenship could have been accomplished under the president’s war power, just as Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation under his war power to deprive the enemy of property. The resettlement of Japanese in Japan after WWII could have been made a treaty obligation of Japan.
Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea.
It would have been a horrifically horrible idea. No person of Japanese ancestry living in the United States was ever convicted of any serious act of espionage or sabotage during the war. Moreover, an estimated 33,000 Japanese Americans served in the military during and immediately after World War II. Remember Mr. Miyagi?
"The removal of citizenship could have been accomplished under the president’s war power just as Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation under his war power to deprive the enemy of property."
First, it's not even remotely a comparison. Second, please cite evidence how the president's action would pass constitutional scrutiny.
"Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea."
Japanese-Americans do not resent their fellow white brethren. In fact, their women folk are well versed in "me love you long time".
Do you enjoy being ill-informed?Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Abe, @Reg Cæsar, @peterike
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)
Such resentful people... died and were wounded in such numbers for the country that treated them in such a hostile manner that they formed the most decorated army unit in the entire history of the said country.Replies: @Jack D, @Diversity Heretic
I would say "No", but you might say different.
(This is assuming you're American).
Another 9/11 'reform' that has 'backfired' was the secure cockpit door. Since 9/11 at least 4 commercial flights have crashed due to the deliberate act of the pilot. 3 of the 4 were Muslim pilots and in at least 3 out of the four one of the pilots left the cockpit allowing the remaining pilot to seize control of the plane. In the German instance the pilot was locked out and probably the Malaysian airlner as well. in the Egyptian airline incident the pilot was able to re-enter the cockpit but unable to stop the dive into the Atlantic. I don't think the situation in the Indonesian airliner has ever been resolved.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Dave, @Stan Adams
Israeli style security takes place for every El Al flight wherever that airline flies.
The issue at hand is whether ten minutes of interrogation of suspicious passengers works and Israel proves that it does. I am not suspicious (as far as I know) and I have been interrogated on my trips to Israel. I found the experience infuriating, but I also acknowledge that it works and was objectively quite impressive.
I may avoid the country in the future if possible, but the Israelis know what they are doing when it comes to passenger screening and interrogation.
OK, maybe 4,000 Americans died in 911, but the importanr thing was that Tuohey wasn’t racist.
That would have been terrible!!
In 2001 ok, might have blown over. In 2019 the downside risk is massive. 4,000 strangers vs my own family? Not a good trade.
The Ferguson effect, but for everybody.
1. The people questioning you are clever Jews, not 85 IQ brown people. What are the chances that you could get clever Jews to work for the TSA for $15/hr? Atta was not that smart (actually he was - he had masters degree from a decent German university) and Ari could have poked holes in his cover story but I'm not sure that D'Shaun could have.
2. The volume of flights going and coming to Israel is tiny vs. the US. It's almost all international flights - the country is the size of NJ and barely has a domestic airline industry. There's no way that the vast US system could stand up to Israeli style questioning and not grind to a halt. A 787 seats 300. 10 minutes of questioning each is 3,000 minutes (50 man hours) of questioning. Just to fly one plane. Even if you have 50 people doing the questioning it's still going to take an hour just to launch 1 flight. But we have 87,000 flights per day.Replies: @Twinkie, @Clifford Brown, @istevefan, @Known Fact
It’s usually young women who question you prior to boarding El Al flights. I note that some East Asian countries now ape this practice for U.S.-bound flights at the behest of the TSA.
I don’t have a clue either way, but on what do you base this assertion?
Apparently he was BFFs with Simpson. Doesn’t sound like a guy who hated whitey that much.
Well isn’t it axiomatic that Israel can have nice things like proper airport security, tough immigration standards and a big beautiful wall while we can’t?
We don’t need Israeli levels of security and we don’t need TSA security theater. All we need is reasonable security that keeps out explosives, large knives, and guns. Add in some general profiling (one way tickets, etc.) and you’re set. No hijacker is going to last if the odds are fairly even; because no one can trust they aren’t going to take everyone down.
Is there anything the Bush family couldn’t screw up?
Agree. I don’t think Bin Laden and his merry men expected that, but 9/11 was a great public relations stunt for Muslims: because Not All Muslims Are Like That we must now be extra gung ho about Muslim immigration, to show that we’re nuanced and thoughtful. Anti-logic passing for logic.
Agree. I don’t think Bin Laden and his merry men expected that, but 9/11 was a great public relations stunt for Muslims: because Not All Muslims Are Like That we must now be extra gung ho about Muslim immigration, to show that we’re nuanced and thoughtful. Anti-logic passing for logic.
So you’re claiming that Janet Reno had a penis? Many suspected a preference for her own sex, but she never emerged from the closet and I never read any credible accusations or claims.
Unless you mean Bush 41, but he was certainly no boomer and he never nominated a woman to be AG.
Well isn’t this the murderers row of infamy!
We have the self-righteous and sanctimonious Bush, comparably sanctimonious minions Attorney General John Ashcroft and Norman Mineta (Mineta, particularly disgusting because he did not give a damn about the lives of Americans). We have Spence Abraham, enabling the event, and that poor bastard Michael Tuohey, saddled with the sins of the politically correct, responsible for the deaths of 9/11, and hopefully too stupid to realize the blood on his head.
You gotta love the ruling class no? What a circus of worms, slugs and lesser forms of life.
Another 9/11 'reform' that has 'backfired' was the secure cockpit door. Since 9/11 at least 4 commercial flights have crashed due to the deliberate act of the pilot. 3 of the 4 were Muslim pilots and in at least 3 out of the four one of the pilots left the cockpit allowing the remaining pilot to seize control of the plane. In the German instance the pilot was locked out and probably the Malaysian airlner as well. in the Egyptian airline incident the pilot was able to re-enter the cockpit but unable to stop the dive into the Atlantic. I don't think the situation in the Indonesian airliner has ever been resolved.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Dave, @Stan Adams
“Israel doesn’t have domestic airline flights.”
Complete nonsense. I’ve flown from Eilat to Tel Aviv. It took less than an hour, and I was grilled by security, probably for being both American and gentile, although the guard was intrigued that my name was David. He asked several times if I had attended Hebrew school.
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
Hindus and Sikhs belong in the Indian Subcontinent, not in America.
Since when is an attack on military target ( in Yemen) Terrorism?
Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea.Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Corvinus, @Twinkie, @Anon
True. But if we could get the people who resent America to emigrate, there would not be one damn Democrat left in the country.
Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea.Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Corvinus, @Twinkie, @Anon
“I’ve often wondered whether it would have been a good idea to have expelled the Japanese who had been interred during World War II.”
It would have been a horrifically horrible idea. No person of Japanese ancestry living in the United States was ever convicted of any serious act of espionage or sabotage during the war. Moreover, an estimated 33,000 Japanese Americans served in the military during and immediately after World War II. Remember Mr. Miyagi?
“The removal of citizenship could have been accomplished under the president’s war power just as Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation under his war power to deprive the enemy of property.”
First, it’s not even remotely a comparison. Second, please cite evidence how the president’s action would pass constitutional scrutiny.
“Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea.”
Japanese-Americans do not resent their fellow white brethren. In fact, their women folk are well versed in “me love you long time”.
Do you enjoy being ill-informed?
Not someone I would even consider deporting.
Simpson was a traitor as a US Senator. Being from Wyoming, Simpson pretended to be a patriot, but Simpson betrayed us at every opportunity. Simpson hated whitey. He and Mineta were blood brothers, collaborators in “The New World Order ™”.
Did you work out of a UPI office somewhere when you worked for them, or from home?
According to Spencer Abraham’s Wikipedia page, he led the congressional fight against Barbara Jordan’s proposed immigration cuts. Can’t prevent them from coming in, can’t notice any collective tendancies after they arrive! Truly the gift that keeps on giving!
1. The people questioning you are clever Jews, not 85 IQ brown people. What are the chances that you could get clever Jews to work for the TSA for $15/hr? Atta was not that smart (actually he was - he had masters degree from a decent German university) and Ari could have poked holes in his cover story but I'm not sure that D'Shaun could have.
2. The volume of flights going and coming to Israel is tiny vs. the US. It's almost all international flights - the country is the size of NJ and barely has a domestic airline industry. There's no way that the vast US system could stand up to Israeli style questioning and not grind to a halt. A 787 seats 300. 10 minutes of questioning each is 3,000 minutes (50 man hours) of questioning. Just to fly one plane. Even if you have 50 people doing the questioning it's still going to take an hour just to launch 1 flight. But we have 87,000 flights per day.Replies: @Twinkie, @Clifford Brown, @istevefan, @Known Fact
Ten minutes? I have been questioned for 40 minutes by Israeli security in a secluded room with no windows.
The Israelis are good at the interrogation game. Four different interlocutors repeatedly asking the same questions. The first interrogator is an extremely attractive, slightly timid Israeli woman fresh out of the army with the final boss being a guy who was the spitting image of Ehud Barak. They called my Israeli business contacts and spoke to them about me in hebrew. A language that I do not speak beyond a handful of obscenities. They ask you if you know any Israelis so I ended up having them call the Israeli guy who lived on my block in Brooklyn! (He vouched for me.) Machine guns and german shepherds were involved. I hit some sort of tripwire with the Israelis or perhaps I just got the lucky winning ticket for the random hardcore treatment.
The entire experience was infuriating, but because they know exactly what they are doing, they personally escorted me to the gate just in time. This seems to be something that they do relatively often. My seat companion for the flight was an Israeli air marshal who was built like Tony Soprano. The perfect embodiment of strong fat. He easily had a hundred pounds on me. I was not going to get away with anything. He was armed and made no secret about it.
Once on the flight, the food was quite good all things considered and the flight landed on time. My three other experiences were interrogations of less than ten minutes, but regardless lesson learned!!! All future meetings with Israelis will be done in the United States or over Skype.
As for $15/hr, I have been pretty consistently for higher wages for Americans, especially for jobs that cannot be outsourced to China. If higher wages save American lives, I am on board.
As for Atta, he likely was intelligent, but I think he was clearly lacking in so-called emotional intelligence. He stood out for a reason. Extremely unsettling and dark, weirdo type. Much of the rest of the crew were dumb muscle and would easily be caught up in a half way decent interrogation.
Airport security didn’t have anything to do with 9/11, as numerous top quality engineers and scientists have pointed out, including another recent report on the ludicrous Building 7 explanation….
The United States has permitted more Muslim immigration after 9/11 than it did before, a policy of civilizational madness! The proper response to 9/11 would have been the immediate suspension of all visa applications of people from Muslim countries, the revocation of all visas for people from Muslim countries presently in the U.S. (accredited diplomats from Muslim countries excepted from the preceding two policies) and a program compensating Muslim U.S. citizens to renounce their citizenship and leave the U.S. George W. Bush missed a colossal opportunity to use the trauma of 3/11 change immigration and visa policy for the better. Instead the U.S. undertook the fool's errands of attacking Afghanistan and Iraq at the behest of Israel.Replies: @Daniel H, @DodgUSA24
The United States has permitted more Muslim immigration after 9/11 than it did before, a policy of civilizational madness!
The one silver lining in this civilizational madness of importing millions of Muslims may be the understanding by national security types that any further wars with Muslims (Iran, ground troops in Syria, Yemen, Sudan, etc…) will surely provoke a violent terrorist response by Muslims living in the USA, therefore the national security apparatchiks may conclude that henceforth it is prudent to avoid war with Muslims, denying the neo-cons. But this is all wishful thinking.
Bill and Hillary were the president.
“Summary: H.R.4655 — 105th Congress (1997-1998)All Information (Except Text)
There are 2 summaries for H.R.4655. Bill summaries are authored by CRS.
Shown Here:
Passed House amended (10/05/1998)
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 – Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.
Authorizes the President, after notifying specified congressional committees, to provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations: (1) grant assistance for radio and television broadcasting to Iraq; (2) Department of Defense (DOD) defense articles and services and military education and training (IMET); and (3) humanitarian assistance, with emphasis on addressing the needs of individuals who have fled from areas under the control of the Hussein regime. Prohibits assistance to any group or organization that is engaged in military cooperation with the Hussein regime. Authorizes appropriations.
Directs the President to designate: (1) one or more Iraqi democratic opposition organizations that meet specified criteria as eligible to receive assistance under this Act; and (2) additional such organizations which satisfy the President’s criteria.
Urges the President to call upon the United Nations to establish an international criminal tribunal for the purpose of indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi officials who are responsible for crimes against humanity, genocide, and other criminal violations of international law.
Expresses the sense of the Congress that once the Saddam Hussein regime is removed from power in Iraq, the United States should support Iraq’s transition to democracy by providing humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people and democracy transition assistance to Iraqi parties and movements with democratic goals, including convening Iraq’s foreign creditors to develop a multilateral response to the foreign debt incurred by the Hussein regime.”
https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-bill/4655
That would have been terrible!!Replies: @Not My Economy
It could have been terrible for Tuohey, personally, to be branded as a racist.
In 2001 ok, might have blown over. In 2019 the downside risk is massive. 4,000 strangers vs my own family? Not a good trade.
The Ferguson effect, but for everybody.
It would have been a horrifically horrible idea. No person of Japanese ancestry living in the United States was ever convicted of any serious act of espionage or sabotage during the war. Moreover, an estimated 33,000 Japanese Americans served in the military during and immediately after World War II. Remember Mr. Miyagi?
"The removal of citizenship could have been accomplished under the president’s war power just as Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation under his war power to deprive the enemy of property."
First, it's not even remotely a comparison. Second, please cite evidence how the president's action would pass constitutional scrutiny.
"Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea."
Japanese-Americans do not resent their fellow white brethren. In fact, their women folk are well versed in "me love you long time".
Do you enjoy being ill-informed?Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Abe, @Reg Cæsar, @peterike
If you want something that will completely floor you, do a Google search on what Daniel Inouye did to earn his Medal of Honor. Specifically, search “Daniel Inouye badass” and read the Badass of the Week article.
Not someone I would even consider deporting.
Thoughts re the jewess:
Some comedian,I think it was Greg Giraldo,said a big break for him was opening for Chris Rock. Being associated with Rock gave him access to top celebrities.
At one backstage party he met Barbra Streisand.
“I am such fan of yours Miss Streisand!”
“Shut the fuck up,I’m Mickey Rourke!”
Anyway,Unz had a great story by Gilad Atzmon about the Zwi Migdal,who kidnapped jewish girls for sex slavery. Sad.
One Rachel Leiberman,who fought her Jewish overlords relentlessly to be allowed to practice her religion,was able to get cooperation from the authorities in Buenos Aires,to break up the ring.
Imagine a movie about that. The cognitive dissonance!
I wonder if Jewish actors would ham it up like whitesg do,playing evil types. Let a white play a Nazi,he is happy as hell.
Leiberman is a Jewess I can get behind!
I think you omitted one detail here from your story:
All this Zwi Migdal stuff took place a century ago or more. The Emmett Till story is ripped from the headlines compared to Zwi Migdal.
Nathan Englander wrote a novel called "The Ministry of Special Cases" about a man who makes his living from wealthy Argentine Jews who hire him to chip the names off of the gravestones of their criminal ancestors at night. This is not really true (that's why it's a novel) but metaphorically it's true that a lot of Argentine Jews would like to forget that great grandpa ran a brothel. But then again lots of rich men (Jewish and non-Jewish) had criminal ancestors - that's how their families got rich in the 1st place.
Brothels were once big business both in Argentina and here in America. But then modern women put most of them out of business. You can't stay in business if the competition is giving your product away for free.
The granddaughter’s politics are not to my taste, but she’s also probably going to be the least liberal of the candidates and seems to be a fine young woman.
The left always creates problems for their solutions.
They ban Whites from noticing, but give non-Whites a pass. Then they demand we increase diversity so some non-Whites who are allowed to notice can speak up and do something.
I recently watched a British TV show where there was a confrontation between the authorities and some muslims. Nothing could be done until a muslim showed up who knew the local trash and could explain to them that they had to back down or they would be in trouble long term. Language was not the issue, they were just trying to get out of something and they refused as a matter of personal honor to give in to White men. Only a hero muslim could convince them to stop.
In the case of Mr. Tuohey too bad he didn’t have some brown people handy to fling at the suspicious Arabs. If he tried anything himself 1000s of overweight bellowing White women would have blubbered him to death trying to out-virtue each other.
1. The people questioning you are clever Jews, not 85 IQ brown people. What are the chances that you could get clever Jews to work for the TSA for $15/hr? Atta was not that smart (actually he was - he had masters degree from a decent German university) and Ari could have poked holes in his cover story but I'm not sure that D'Shaun could have.
2. The volume of flights going and coming to Israel is tiny vs. the US. It's almost all international flights - the country is the size of NJ and barely has a domestic airline industry. There's no way that the vast US system could stand up to Israeli style questioning and not grind to a halt. A 787 seats 300. 10 minutes of questioning each is 3,000 minutes (50 man hours) of questioning. Just to fly one plane. Even if you have 50 people doing the questioning it's still going to take an hour just to launch 1 flight. But we have 87,000 flights per day.Replies: @Twinkie, @Clifford Brown, @istevefan, @Known Fact
Bingo. There is no way we could replicate what Israel does with our daily flight load. I think Chicago O’Hare alone has about three times the annual passenger volume as all of Israel.
Imagine some Mexican banditos telling you at gunpoint that you must [email protected]@k Gomez…or die.
Or perhaps Jeffrey E. telling some young candidate he’ll get the backing he needs,but first…
Exactly. It’s impossible to make sense of what’s happened in the past 18 years if you try to use the logic of ordinary national interest.
Instead, in that time, our Woke elite, bloated on their own self-righteousness and arrogance, have succumbed to Substitute Savior Syndrome. This puts the picture into better focus. In the eyes of the Substitute Saviors, advocating the welcoming and coddling of the most vile offenders signals the highest degree of virtue, so the 9/11 crew were vaulted up to the apex of the list of ‘victims’ who must be ‘redeemed’.
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
Had airport security do a more thorough check of their luggage and carry-ons. Forced the two to sit separately. Entirely denied them the right to board (airlines often deny passengers for the most random of reasons). Forced one of them to take a different flight. Spoken to the captain about his concerns.
Or how about simply…given them a dirty look.
I know the last wouldn’t have stopped them, but if more Americans felt like we had the right to give dirty looks to foreigners who acted like assholes (i.e., a huge percentage of the Muslim population) then maybe we woudn’t have been in that predicament to begin with. Instead they rape us in the ass (metaphorically speaking (for the most part)) and our elites expect us to act like we enjoy it.
Some comedian,I think it was Greg Giraldo,said a big break for him was opening for Chris Rock. Being associated with Rock gave him access to top celebrities.
At one backstage party he met Barbra Streisand.
"I am such fan of yours Miss Streisand!"
"Shut the fuck up,I'm Mickey Rourke!"
Anyway,Unz had a great story by Gilad Atzmon about the Zwi Migdal,who kidnapped jewish girls for sex slavery. Sad.
One Rachel Leiberman,who fought her Jewish overlords relentlessly to be allowed to practice her religion,was able to get cooperation from the authorities in Buenos Aires,to break up the ring.
Imagine a movie about that. The cognitive dissonance!
I wonder if Jewish actors would ham it up like whitesg do,playing evil types. Let a white play a Nazi,he is happy as hell.
Leiberman is a Jewess I can get behind!Replies: @Jack D, @Lot
Father O’Hara, I told you to stay off the sauce! A man of the cloth should not be getting all worked up about Jewish girls and sex slavery.
I think you omitted one detail here from your story:
All this Zwi Migdal stuff took place a century ago or more. The Emmett Till story is ripped from the headlines compared to Zwi Migdal.
Nathan Englander wrote a novel called “The Ministry of Special Cases” about a man who makes his living from wealthy Argentine Jews who hire him to chip the names off of the gravestones of their criminal ancestors at night. This is not really true (that’s why it’s a novel) but metaphorically it’s true that a lot of Argentine Jews would like to forget that great grandpa ran a brothel. But then again lots of rich men (Jewish and non-Jewish) had criminal ancestors – that’s how their families got rich in the 1st place.
Brothels were once big business both in Argentina and here in America. But then modern women put most of them out of business. You can’t stay in business if the competition is giving your product away for free.
1. The people questioning you are clever Jews, not 85 IQ brown people. What are the chances that you could get clever Jews to work for the TSA for $15/hr? Atta was not that smart (actually he was - he had masters degree from a decent German university) and Ari could have poked holes in his cover story but I'm not sure that D'Shaun could have.
2. The volume of flights going and coming to Israel is tiny vs. the US. It's almost all international flights - the country is the size of NJ and barely has a domestic airline industry. There's no way that the vast US system could stand up to Israeli style questioning and not grind to a halt. A 787 seats 300. 10 minutes of questioning each is 3,000 minutes (50 man hours) of questioning. Just to fly one plane. Even if you have 50 people doing the questioning it's still going to take an hour just to launch 1 flight. But we have 87,000 flights per day.Replies: @Twinkie, @Clifford Brown, @istevefan, @Known Fact
It could have been worse …
Unscheduled stop mid Atlantic.Replies: @AnotherDad
Pretty much the perfect imbodiment of “multiculturalism” and “minoritarianism”.
You import foreign peoples and their foreign culture, dress, religion, norms, behaviors and foreign quarrels.
Several murdered witnesses. The principals, never convicted–murdered witnesses, botched investigation, unhelpful “community” –still living free and clear, on Canadian passports.
That’s multiculturalism for you. At the very minimum this should have ended Sikh immigration … as 911 should have done for Muslims–if nothing before did the trick.
But no: Diversity is our strength!
It would have been a horrifically horrible idea. No person of Japanese ancestry living in the United States was ever convicted of any serious act of espionage or sabotage during the war. Moreover, an estimated 33,000 Japanese Americans served in the military during and immediately after World War II. Remember Mr. Miyagi?
"The removal of citizenship could have been accomplished under the president’s war power just as Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation under his war power to deprive the enemy of property."
First, it's not even remotely a comparison. Second, please cite evidence how the president's action would pass constitutional scrutiny.
"Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea."
Japanese-Americans do not resent their fellow white brethren. In fact, their women folk are well versed in "me love you long time".
Do you enjoy being ill-informed?Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Abe, @Reg Cæsar, @peterike
Wow, an actually well thought-out and reasonable post by CORVINUS.
My father was a boy who grew up in California during the 30’s and 40’s. He and his family worked in fields ala the Joads up and down the Central Valley. He told me decades ago when I was a kid that he had a very distinct memory of a Japanese family who worked the camps celebrating Japan’s invasion of mainland China waiving Rising Sun flags and singing Japanese songs. This was before Pearl Harbor so it’s conceivable that the family felt comfortable expressing their Japanese nationalism in the presence of a bunch of ignorant Mexicans and Okies. Maybe my father’s memory was faulty, but I don’t believe the official record of anything so I’m skeptical that all Japanese were great American patriots, better even than you or I!
Two other examples: During Hurricane Katrina there were rumors/reports of violence and sexual attacks inside the Superdome and that some of this violence was targeted at whites by gangs of blacks. The media went out of it’s way to kill the story and the official historians tell us this was a racist lie. However, I remember reading two stories–one in a British paper and another in an Australian paper–of Brit and Aussie tourists who had returned home describing exactly the horrifying details of racial animus and violence. One Aussie male described how the males in their group had to form a literal barrier circle around the girls to fight off attacks by gangs of black males who wanted at the girls. And these individual Brits and Aussies were named and all sounded very credible in my opinion. The Brit stories confirmed the Aussie stories and vice versa. But all that has gone down the memory hole. Second example: After 9/11 there was a story in the paper out of San Diego of a Somalian student at UCSD who overheard a group of arab students speaking of the attack in arabic celebrating the collapse of the towers. Never heard much about it after words, but I doubt that was an isolated incident.
With regards to official history vs real hisory: I feel like Sam Kinnison in Back to School. “I’d like to believe it. But I was there!”
When it comes to Katrina, black Uber and cab drivers will tell you one set of stories of woe and then the white Uber and cab drivers will tell you tales of anarchy and vigilante vengeance. I have trouble believing either side, but there are a lot of blue collar white New Orleans folks who claim that New Orleans was a free fire zone after the storm.
Regardless, it spooks the tourists.
In retrospect we know the Japanese invasion of China was an incredible evil. But a farmworker in rural California in the 1930s wouldn’t have known this.
“overheard a group of arab students speaking of the attack in arabic celebrating the collapse of the towers. ”
The polls of Muslims in England, France, and in the Middle East show many millions support Osama and catastrophic terrorism against the West. The view is so popular that several parts of Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Somalia and Afghanistan are or were directly controlled by Osama’s Al Qaeda or ISIS, its offshoot. So one guy celebrating it isn’t much of a story to me. Hundreds of Western Muslims traveled to join ISIS, and many others were stopped on their way.Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax, @Alden
In the coming year there will be people joining the US Military to fight a war that began before they were born.
New Orleans remains a world unto itself.
When it comes to Katrina, black Uber and cab drivers will tell you one set of stories of woe and then the white Uber and cab drivers will tell you tales of anarchy and vigilante vengeance. I have trouble believing either side, but there are a lot of blue collar white New Orleans folks who claim that New Orleans was a free fire zone after the storm.
Regardless, it spooks the tourists.
Some comedian,I think it was Greg Giraldo,said a big break for him was opening for Chris Rock. Being associated with Rock gave him access to top celebrities.
At one backstage party he met Barbra Streisand.
"I am such fan of yours Miss Streisand!"
"Shut the fuck up,I'm Mickey Rourke!"
Anyway,Unz had a great story by Gilad Atzmon about the Zwi Migdal,who kidnapped jewish girls for sex slavery. Sad.
One Rachel Leiberman,who fought her Jewish overlords relentlessly to be allowed to practice her religion,was able to get cooperation from the authorities in Buenos Aires,to break up the ring.
Imagine a movie about that. The cognitive dissonance!
I wonder if Jewish actors would ham it up like whitesg do,playing evil types. Let a white play a Nazi,he is happy as hell.
Leiberman is a Jewess I can get behind!Replies: @Jack D, @Lot
I assure you padre, the Jacobs fortune was not ill-got. Mr. Jacobs was a top professor of electrical engineering for many years, and his venture to commercialize his innovations was simply a big success.
The granddaughter’s politics are not to my taste, but she’s also probably going to be the least liberal of the candidates and seems to be a fine young woman.
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
Foresight would only have needed to be 20/40 or so, or whatever it takes to look through sights of one’s CC pistol and take care of this thing before it got out of hand (as it did). If Americans weren’t already being disarmed at airports around the country, we’d probably not be discussing this at all. (The press likes to hide feel-good gun stories, such as regular Americans easily defeating a terrorism attempt.) The world could have been different.
But no one was thinking that way on 9/11. Hijackings had always been for ransom - take me to Havana or release some Palestinians or something like that. They were never on kamikaze missions. The training was "comply with the hijackers and no one will get hurt."
“a Japanese family who worked the camps celebrating Japan’s invasion of mainland China”
In retrospect we know the Japanese invasion of China was an incredible evil. But a farmworker in rural California in the 1930s wouldn’t have known this.
“overheard a group of arab students speaking of the attack in arabic celebrating the collapse of the towers. ”
The polls of Muslims in England, France, and in the Middle East show many millions support Osama and catastrophic terrorism against the West. The view is so popular that several parts of Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Somalia and Afghanistan are or were directly controlled by Osama’s Al Qaeda or ISIS, its offshoot. So one guy celebrating it isn’t much of a story to me. Hundreds of Western Muslims traveled to join ISIS, and many others were stopped on their way.
https://youtu.be/l0lzZvCNkJwReplies: @Anonymous
Was Atta intentionally trying to get caught or subconsciously crying out for help(and be arrested) so that he wouldn’t have to go through with the plot?
Is Florida a hub for spy activity? The 9/11 hijackers seem to have based out of there more than any other state and 13 of them had IDs/drivers licenses from there. Plus Epstein, the Pulse shooter and the Israeli 'art students'.Replies: @Pericles, @Stan Adams
Come on, how could a state full of Jews be a hub for spying and subversion?
Better yet, expand US oil and gas production and export ports so we can sell our oil and gas overseas. This would put a dent in our trade deficit with China way more than Trump’s tariffs and negotiations.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Kronos, @Lagertha, @Redneck farmer
I take it you’re unfamiliar with the phrase, ” If you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow”?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49582852Replies: @Redneck farmer
Isn’t the guy who was CIA director at the time now going around saying they tried to warn the White House something was up, but Condoleezza Rice thought it was a nothingburger?
Putin warned Bush about impending attack TWO DAYS before 9/11 – ex-CIA analyst
I swear this 9/11 is like a hole in spacetime around which the most contradictory stories have grown.
And ANTHRAX has been deep-sixed.
So, you’ve basically been a hater for 18 years. /sarc>
It would have been a horrifically horrible idea. No person of Japanese ancestry living in the United States was ever convicted of any serious act of espionage or sabotage during the war. Moreover, an estimated 33,000 Japanese Americans served in the military during and immediately after World War II. Remember Mr. Miyagi?
"The removal of citizenship could have been accomplished under the president’s war power just as Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation under his war power to deprive the enemy of property."
First, it's not even remotely a comparison. Second, please cite evidence how the president's action would pass constitutional scrutiny.
"Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea."
Japanese-Americans do not resent their fellow white brethren. In fact, their women folk are well versed in "me love you long time".
Do you enjoy being ill-informed?Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Abe, @Reg Cæsar, @peterike
In California, they’ve voted Republican, rather than for the fascist party that interned them.
My step-daughter who is just starting 6th grade came home from school today and said it was pretty boring, and she didn't get to do much clarinet practice, because all the teachers were talking about 9/11.
Eager to know how what our children are learning, I asked what they had been saying.
"Something about how some tourists came and killed a whole lot of Americans for no reason", came the answer.
So I was able to rest easy knowing that my kid is immune to indoctrination.Replies: @Lagertha, @El Dato
Well, she seems to have picked up a lot of weird stuff.
CIA analyst rather?
Putin warned Bush about impending attack TWO DAYS before 9/11 – ex-CIA analyst
I swear this 9/11 is like a hole in spacetime around which the most contradictory stories have grown.
And ANTHRAX has been deep-sixed.
So who is involved in 9/11 …
> US Deep State
> US TLAs (CIA/NSA) who are basically selling out to That Country
> Someone able to run extreme interference
>> by holding hijacking manoeuvers on 9/11
>> by holding NORAD manoeuvers
> Dick Cheney
> Israeli Art Students
> Military
>> firing missiles into Pentagon
>> wet for more medals after the Yougoslavia shitshow
> Robots from the future
>> able to vector planes into Pentagon
> News anchors
>> Telling tall tales of a “third plane impact” at the moment the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania would have hit WTC7 if it had planned to do so
> Well-informed people (apparently everyone except me)
>> Shorting United Airlines
>> Moving Gold out of WTC
>> Staying at home on 9/11 because of migraine or something
>> “Losing all our financial data” (of fraudulent/nonexistent ops) on 9/11
>> Performing insurance fraud
> Israeli TLAs running rings around US TLAs
> Israeli Deep state (though the nuance between Israeli Actual State / Deep State is really unusful)
> Neocons, PNAC Neocons, Think Tank Neocons who were strong in Bush Admin
> Ari “Don’t Say Anything Yet” Fleischer
> Someone who rigged the WTCs with demolition charges during weeks earlier
> Highly placed Saudis
> Ahmed Amin Refai who obtains the plans of the WTC while contracting for maintenance work
> Al Qaeda / Bin Laden (maybe)
> 1996 bombers of WTC / TWA 800 bombers (i.e. project Bojinka / Al Qaeda), in particular Ramzi Yousef who has a fetish for plots involving planes.
> Condi Rice, wet for the birth pangs of a New Middle East
> Mafia killers
> Ali Mohamed
>> And then we have this
> The gerontocrats who presided the 9/11 Commission fakery and let it through!
I don’t know anymore!
That’s just one of those things, you know, like continental drift.
Stating clearly our society’s general assumption, George W. Bush’s quotation begins, “As we become a more diverse society … ” Change that and we’ve got a chance.
In retrospect we know the Japanese invasion of China was an incredible evil. But a farmworker in rural California in the 1930s wouldn’t have known this.
“overheard a group of arab students speaking of the attack in arabic celebrating the collapse of the towers. ”
The polls of Muslims in England, France, and in the Middle East show many millions support Osama and catastrophic terrorism against the West. The view is so popular that several parts of Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Somalia and Afghanistan are or were directly controlled by Osama’s Al Qaeda or ISIS, its offshoot. So one guy celebrating it isn’t much of a story to me. Hundreds of Western Muslims traveled to join ISIS, and many others were stopped on their way.Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax, @Alden
It wasn’t just one but my point was that contrary to the hardened media narrative that all Muslim immigrants were appalled by 9/11 (and I know I don’t have to explain that here) there were contemporaneous documented cases of Muslims in the US celebrating the attack and that it’s not unreasonable that if a group of Muslims in San Diego we’re willing to openly celebrate the attack, thinking no one would understand their Arabic, then it’s not unreasonable to assume that that’s just the tip of an iceberg of publicly unspoken Muslim schadenfreude.
Julian Barnes published a short story in The New Yorker which explored the minds of Mohammed Atta and his confederates leading up to Atta blowing himself to smithereens and his final moment of consciousness. It seemed to me an impressive feat of literary imagination.
Oh, it can be done. It’s a matter of resources and popularity. Where there is a will… Unfortunately, ours is a society that prizes convenience above almost everything else, so there is no will. Israelis have the notion of en brera. We don’t.
Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea.Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Corvinus, @Twinkie, @Anon
It’s like history is not taught in this country.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)
Such resentful people… died and were wounded in such numbers for the country that treated them in such a hostile manner that they formed the most decorated army unit in the entire history of the said country.
Just for you Stevie. Do you think this disinformation blog and comment section will spare
you and your family when the Self-Chosen People aka neo-Bolsheviks take power after
the soon to be civil war occurs? You have been coyly snipping at the them for years for
a few shekels. Your kids will curse your name.
One of my biggest regrets is that when I was young, I was so naaive dumb and was beyond Gung Ho supporting George W. Bush. In hindsight, in my opinion, though Obama is literally an anti-American traitor, Bush was a worse president. After 9/11, he could have done literally anything with 100% agreement. Built a Wall. Overhauled Visa System. Cut immigration. Ended birthright citizenship. Ended Muslim immigration. Instead, he did the opposite. Around 9/11 was the last time we had a country and Bush blew it. All so his family could rule us like peasants.
Further, I hate to admit it, but in some ways, the Left was probably right about Bush. His advisors were incompetent and in over their heads (thanks for giving the whole Middle East to Iran, you boneheads!) and he probably really was trying to do favors for his buddies at Halliburton / avenge Saddam for trying to take out his Dad. I was too young to vote in 2000, but again, in hindsight, a then somewhat sane Gore might have been much, much, much better.
Trump is doing what he can, but he is basically 20 years too late. The Bushes desroyed the GOP, and frankly, the country.
The saddest thing is that every time I have to drastically lower my opinion of an earlier political figure (such as W.), it's hard to conceive how it would have been any better if a rival had been in charge.
On 9/11 a President Gore would have been in a Florida classroom giving the kids an earful of Earth in the Balance. The next day: "As terrible as this event at the World Trade Center was, if we let it distract us from fighting global warming, the terrorists will have won."
I have boundless contempt for the Kenyan Man of Mystery, but ... McCain might actually have been worse. Or that empty bag of skin who ran against Obama in 2012, I forget his name.
American politics consists of two farm teams in the World Series, each sponsored by a different corporation.
The United States has permitted more Muslim immigration after 9/11 than it did before, a policy of civilizational madness! The proper response to 9/11 would have been the immediate suspension of all visa applications of people from Muslim countries, the revocation of all visas for people from Muslim countries presently in the U.S. (accredited diplomats from Muslim countries excepted from the preceding two policies) and a program compensating Muslim U.S. citizens to renounce their citizenship and leave the U.S. George W. Bush missed a colossal opportunity to use the trauma of 3/11 change immigration and visa policy for the better. Instead the U.S. undertook the fool's errands of attacking Afghanistan and Iraq at the behest of Israel.Replies: @Daniel H, @DodgUSA24
Your comment is great except that the last sentence. Israel had no more interest in the US attacking Iraq and Afghanistan than the man in the moon. They realized immediately that attacking Iraq would turn the ME over to Iran (Israel’s true enemy), which is exactly what happened. Sharon, who was PM, was against Iraq from Day 1.
It would have been a horrifically horrible idea. No person of Japanese ancestry living in the United States was ever convicted of any serious act of espionage or sabotage during the war. Moreover, an estimated 33,000 Japanese Americans served in the military during and immediately after World War II. Remember Mr. Miyagi?
"The removal of citizenship could have been accomplished under the president’s war power just as Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation under his war power to deprive the enemy of property."
First, it's not even remotely a comparison. Second, please cite evidence how the president's action would pass constitutional scrutiny.
"Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea."
Japanese-Americans do not resent their fellow white brethren. In fact, their women folk are well versed in "me love you long time".
Do you enjoy being ill-informed?Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Abe, @Reg Cæsar, @peterike
Well you’re right. Lincoln’s action, like so much he did, trampled on The Constitution. I guess the Constitution doesn’t say you can kill millions of your fellow citizens to prop up Northern business interests, but hey, he was a git ‘er done guy, and he got that done too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)
Such resentful people... died and were wounded in such numbers for the country that treated them in such a hostile manner that they formed the most decorated army unit in the entire history of the said country.Replies: @Jack D, @Diversity Heretic
One doesn’t exclude the other. The Japanese (Jewish, German, etc.) Americans are not a unitary force. Before WWII, there were a lot of German Americans who supported Hitler – the German-American Bund used to have big rallies in Madison Square Garden. But many German Americans were decorated war heroes and gladly shot at their fellow Germans on the other side (whereas the Japanese Americans were mostly sent to shoot at white people and not deployed in the Pacific). So it’s entirely possible that there were Japanese in America who were loyal supporters of the Emperor and supported the Japanese invasion of China in the ’30s. This anecdote might have been true (maybe). The US and Japan were not at war with each other. It wasn’t a crime to wave a Japanese flag.
Now after Pearl Harbor, most of those, even the ones who previously supported the Emperor (and probably most American born Japanese didn’t) fell into line and supported their adopted land. Maybe a few didn’t and just kept their mouths shut because openly expressing such sentiments was not a good idea once the war started. There are certainly few or no documented cases of any acts of sabotage or espionage by the Japanese (though some German spies were caught) but you can’t say with certainty that they did not exist – just that they were not caught. But they certainly could not have been numerous and in retrospect the imprisonment of the Japanese in concentration camps was completely unjustified.
Further, the War Department mostly knew who they were, but decided not to arrest them because it was deemed more important to conceal the fact the Japanese encryption codes had been broken (MAGIC). Files relating to MAGIC were mostly declassified in 1977. In these files are the "documented case of...espionage" you insist don't exist.
The fact people continue to chirp the "it was due to racism and hysteria" canard is just another example of anti-American/pro-"other" propaganda. Similar to people that still insist Alger Hiss was not a Soviet spy even after the Venona transcripts revealed that he was, people seem to have made up their mind about the internment camps and those pesky declassified MAGIC files filled with inconvenient facts aren’t going to change their mind.
You continue to fail (refuse?) to draw a distinction between resident aliens and American citizens of Japanese descent. The Japanese interned were, for the most part, Japanese. The citizens interned were, for the part, the children of those Japanese. Further, those internees that were willing to relocate outside the Defense Zones (mostly the coastal parts of CA, OR, and WA) were allowed to leave the camps. Over 30,000 did so. Those that chose to relocate before internment were not interned at all. Again, the War Department knew who were cooperating with the Japanese and who weren’t. If they could separate the loyal wheat from the treasonous chaff in a way that wouldn’t reveal MAGIC had been broken, they were happy to do so.
However I will concede there were also some adult American citizens of Japanese descent that were also interned. These were mostly "Kibei" - American citizens that had been sent back to Japan for schooling (typically age 10-20) before returning to the US. There were about 20,000 Kibei in the US at the time of Pearl Harbor. Some were interned, some were not. Those not living in various designated areas of the west coast were not interned.
Many Kibei still in Japan at the time the war began served in the Imperial Navy and Imperial Army. One (Tom Kawakita, born in California) served as a POW camp guard and tortured numerous American POW's. After the war, Kawakita returned the US and enrolled at USC. He was recognized by a former POW, arrested in 1947, was convicted of 8 counts of treason and sentenced to death. Eisenhower later commuted his death sentence to life in prison. In 1963 JFK (on the request of the Japanese Prime Minister) commuted his sentence on the condition he never return to the US. He left for Japan in December of that year.
As I've said before, you often have the lawyer's bad habit of authoritatively opining on topics about which you are not well-informed. This is one of those topics. You wanting something to be true (all the Japanese that lived here were as Americanized as baseball and apple pie and mean racist FDR succumbed to hysteria and put them on “concentration camps”) does not make it true.Replies: @Jack D, @Twinkie
I talked with a World War II vet once who had served on a Navy ship in the Pacific. His most painful regret was remembering 18-year-old sailors who died in action.
Things were tough all over. The Japanese citizens in the camps didn't have it that bad, considering.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)
Such resentful people... died and were wounded in such numbers for the country that treated them in such a hostile manner that they formed the most decorated army unit in the entire history of the said country.Replies: @Jack D, @Diversity Heretic
The Romans put the Germans in the legions. Some of them served Rome quite well; probably even got Roman awards for bravery. How’d it all work out?
Comparing them to the patriotic heroes of the 442 RCT is sheer ignorance. Do some reading.
Another 9/11 'reform' that has 'backfired' was the secure cockpit door. Since 9/11 at least 4 commercial flights have crashed due to the deliberate act of the pilot. 3 of the 4 were Muslim pilots and in at least 3 out of the four one of the pilots left the cockpit allowing the remaining pilot to seize control of the plane. In the German instance the pilot was locked out and probably the Malaysian airlner as well. in the Egyptian airline incident the pilot was able to re-enter the cockpit but unable to stop the dive into the Atlantic. I don't think the situation in the Indonesian airliner has ever been resolved.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Dave, @Stan Adams
EgyptAir Flight 990 crashed in the wee hours of Halloween 1999, almost two years before 9/11.
Is Florida a hub for spy activity? The 9/11 hijackers seem to have based out of there more than any other state and 13 of them had IDs/drivers licenses from there. Plus Epstein, the Pulse shooter and the Israeli 'art students'.Replies: @Pericles, @Stan Adams
Florida is a hub for all kinds of weird shit.
Have you heard the latest about the Parkland shooter? He was even crazier than we knew:
https://nypost.com/2019/09/08/parkland-dad-massacre-was-avoidable-if-district-hadnt-enabled-deranged-student/
This is wildly incorrect. Hundreds (Not a few. Not tens. Hundreds) of Japanese aliens were acting as spies, sending information on things such as ships arriving and leaving various west coast ports, troop movements, status of various factories, etc.
Further, the War Department mostly knew who they were, but decided not to arrest them because it was deemed more important to conceal the fact the Japanese encryption codes had been broken (MAGIC). Files relating to MAGIC were mostly declassified in 1977. In these files are the “documented case of…espionage” you insist don’t exist.
The fact people continue to chirp the “it was due to racism and hysteria” canard is just another example of anti-American/pro-“other” propaganda. Similar to people that still insist Alger Hiss was not a Soviet spy even after the Venona transcripts revealed that he was, people seem to have made up their mind about the internment camps and those pesky declassified MAGIC files filled with inconvenient facts aren’t going to change their mind.
You continue to fail (refuse?) to draw a distinction between resident aliens and American citizens of Japanese descent. The Japanese interned were, for the most part, Japanese. The citizens interned were, for the part, the children of those Japanese. Further, those internees that were willing to relocate outside the Defense Zones (mostly the coastal parts of CA, OR, and WA) were allowed to leave the camps. Over 30,000 did so. Those that chose to relocate before internment were not interned at all. Again, the War Department knew who were cooperating with the Japanese and who weren’t. If they could separate the loyal wheat from the treasonous chaff in a way that wouldn’t reveal MAGIC had been broken, they were happy to do so.
However I will concede there were also some adult American citizens of Japanese descent that were also interned. These were mostly “Kibei” – American citizens that had been sent back to Japan for schooling (typically age 10-20) before returning to the US. There were about 20,000 Kibei in the US at the time of Pearl Harbor. Some were interned, some were not. Those not living in various designated areas of the west coast were not interned.
Many Kibei still in Japan at the time the war began served in the Imperial Navy and Imperial Army. One (Tom Kawakita, born in California) served as a POW camp guard and tortured numerous American POW’s. After the war, Kawakita returned the US and enrolled at USC. He was recognized by a former POW, arrested in 1947, was convicted of 8 counts of treason and sentenced to death. Eisenhower later commuted his death sentence to life in prison. In 1963 JFK (on the request of the Japanese Prime Minister) commuted his sentence on the condition he never return to the US. He left for Japan in December of that year.
As I’ve said before, you often have the lawyer’s bad habit of authoritatively opining on topics about which you are not well-informed. This is one of those topics. You wanting something to be true (all the Japanese that lived here were as Americanized as baseball and apple pie and mean racist FDR succumbed to hysteria and put them on “concentration camps”) does not make it true.
Maybe they would have found the box cutters if they searched them. Maybe they would have talked their way onto the plane anyway. I assume they had cover stories prepared. Not sure what Hindus and Sikhs have to do with anything.The law that Bush advocated changing hadn't actually changed as of 9/11 so it had no influence on the outcome.Replies: @Clifford Brown, @Jonathan Mason, @J.Ross, @Elli, @Logan, @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Wilkey, @Achmed E. Newman, @Stan Adams
One thing he didn’t do afterward was commit suicide.
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/amazing-but-true
Not the Japanese Californians I know. Every one a staunch Democrat even those who were in the camps as children. There may be a few Japanese Republicans.
Are you in the city? That may be a factor. Also, California's Japanese Republicans may have fled the state along with their white brethren.
Keeping people around who resent you is a bad idea.Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @Corvinus, @Twinkie, @Anon
Given that you probably do not have warm feelings towards a fair portion of the US, including much of its ruling class, should you be deported?
I would say “No”, but you might say different.
(This is assuming you’re American).
In retrospect we know the Japanese invasion of China was an incredible evil. But a farmworker in rural California in the 1930s wouldn’t have known this.
“overheard a group of arab students speaking of the attack in arabic celebrating the collapse of the towers. ”
The polls of Muslims in England, France, and in the Middle East show many millions support Osama and catastrophic terrorism against the West. The view is so popular that several parts of Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Somalia and Afghanistan are or were directly controlled by Osama’s Al Qaeda or ISIS, its offshoot. So one guy celebrating it isn’t much of a story to me. Hundreds of Western Muslims traveled to join ISIS, and many others were stopped on their way.Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax, @Alden
9/11/01 I worked with a man who lived in a big apartment complex near Los Angeles airport. It was full of Arab and Persian Muslims. That evening the Muslims had a big potluck celebration party in the courtyard and party room. The Americans were crying watching the news and going to church to cry some more.
I’m not sure it’s a great idea for EVERYONE on board to be carrying, but nowadays, many pilots carry a .40 caliber H&K automatic as a sidearm when they are on the flight deck, having been thru the Federal training program for this purpose. Also, it seems to me that sworn police officers and such who open carry every day as part of their jobs could just as well be trusted to carry when they are flying. Had the pilots on 9/11 been so trained and armed or there had been some cops on board, I’m sure they could have taken care of things on the spot and saved thousands of lives.
But no one was thinking that way on 9/11. Hijackings had always been for ransom – take me to Havana or release some Palestinians or something like that. They were never on kamikaze missions. The training was “comply with the hijackers and no one will get hurt.”
I’m going by Thomas Sowell and Kevin Phillips almost 50 years ago. Cubans have moved left, so perhaps Japanese have, too. Are Vietnamese next?
Are you in the city? That may be a factor. Also, California’s Japanese Republicans may have fled the state along with their white brethren.
Further, the War Department mostly knew who they were, but decided not to arrest them because it was deemed more important to conceal the fact the Japanese encryption codes had been broken (MAGIC). Files relating to MAGIC were mostly declassified in 1977. In these files are the "documented case of...espionage" you insist don't exist.
The fact people continue to chirp the "it was due to racism and hysteria" canard is just another example of anti-American/pro-"other" propaganda. Similar to people that still insist Alger Hiss was not a Soviet spy even after the Venona transcripts revealed that he was, people seem to have made up their mind about the internment camps and those pesky declassified MAGIC files filled with inconvenient facts aren’t going to change their mind.
You continue to fail (refuse?) to draw a distinction between resident aliens and American citizens of Japanese descent. The Japanese interned were, for the most part, Japanese. The citizens interned were, for the part, the children of those Japanese. Further, those internees that were willing to relocate outside the Defense Zones (mostly the coastal parts of CA, OR, and WA) were allowed to leave the camps. Over 30,000 did so. Those that chose to relocate before internment were not interned at all. Again, the War Department knew who were cooperating with the Japanese and who weren’t. If they could separate the loyal wheat from the treasonous chaff in a way that wouldn’t reveal MAGIC had been broken, they were happy to do so.
However I will concede there were also some adult American citizens of Japanese descent that were also interned. These were mostly "Kibei" - American citizens that had been sent back to Japan for schooling (typically age 10-20) before returning to the US. There were about 20,000 Kibei in the US at the time of Pearl Harbor. Some were interned, some were not. Those not living in various designated areas of the west coast were not interned.
Many Kibei still in Japan at the time the war began served in the Imperial Navy and Imperial Army. One (Tom Kawakita, born in California) served as a POW camp guard and tortured numerous American POW's. After the war, Kawakita returned the US and enrolled at USC. He was recognized by a former POW, arrested in 1947, was convicted of 8 counts of treason and sentenced to death. Eisenhower later commuted his death sentence to life in prison. In 1963 JFK (on the request of the Japanese Prime Minister) commuted his sentence on the condition he never return to the US. He left for Japan in December of that year.
As I've said before, you often have the lawyer's bad habit of authoritatively opining on topics about which you are not well-informed. This is one of those topics. You wanting something to be true (all the Japanese that lived here were as Americanized as baseball and apple pie and mean racist FDR succumbed to hysteria and put them on “concentration camps”) does not make it true.Replies: @Jack D, @Twinkie
I already said that the Japanese Americans were not unitary and there could have been some on the other side as well as those who Twinkie cited as having fought bravely for the US. Humans are capable of anything – the bravest selflessness, the deepest perfidy. Sometimes even the same human.
I am familiar with Malkin’s book (although I haven’t read it). I am also aware that many scholars condemned it as ” a blatant violation of professional standards of objectivity and fairness”. Even if the allegations in it were true (which is itself questionable – why weren’t these spies prosecuted when the war was over, as Kawakita was?), notions of collective or racial guilt are deeply un-American and repugnant. If there was a desire not to reveal the breaking of codes, ruses could have been used to make it seem as if the spies had been discovered by other means. But deporting every single Japanese from the entire West Coast was like using a cannon to swat a fly.
https://web.archive.org/web/20070805083832/http://hnn.us/readcomment.php?id=40982
If you do want some questionable conduct by Japanese Americans though, read about the Nihau incident. The fact that Japanese-Americans served honorably (in the European theater) has nothing to do with the FACT that hundreds of Japanese aliens were in fact engaging in espionage.
why weren’t these spies prosecuted when the war was over, as Kawakita was
Some were prosecuted, but many more were simply deported. You'll have to go back and ask the FBI and War Department why they chose A vs B for a given spy. I was not present when those decisions were made, not having being born yet. My guess is that Kawakita actively tortured American POW's which couldn't be overlooked unlike a guy making phone calls letting the Japanese know that the USS Whatever was preparing to leave Long Beach. Also people had their hands full with the various post-war tasks that were taking priority.
notions of collective or racial guilt are deeply un-American and repugnant.
Strawman. Stick to the point - you argued that there was "no or few documented cases of ...espionage"by Japanese aliens. You were wrong.Unfortunately you weren't there at the time to offer some suggestions as to successful ruses. Concealing the fact that codes had been broken was of utmost importance. Churchill allowed Coventry to be bombed by the Luftwaffe rather than reveal they'd broken the German codes.
You can object to the means if you wish, and you can certainly second guess actions taken. What you can not do is continue to insist that the internments happened for no reason. Saying something that is not true once makes one mistaken. Continue to say things that are not true makes one something much worse.Replies: @Twinkie
You asserted that there were “no or few document cases of espionage…”. That is not remotely true. Again, do some reading on the topic. I’m not sure what you’re referring to with “Malkins’ book”. That was not one of my sources. I began reading fairly extensively on this topic in the late 80’s out of a general interest in the Pacific War (numerous family members fought in it) and out of a growing suspicion that the official narrative on many topics was untrue. The Japanese internments being nothing more than racial hysteria seemed to be too neat and tidy to be true. And it turns out I was correct.
I am baffled by your continued refusal to acknowledge the difference between “Japanese Americans” and Japanese resident aliens. As has been stated numerous times now, the “Japanese Americans” that were interned were mainly the minor children of Japanese aliens. They let the kids stay with their parents – that seems pretty humane to me.
If you do want some questionable conduct by Japanese Americans though, read about the Nihau incident. The fact that Japanese-Americans served honorably (in the European theater) has nothing to do with the FACT that hundreds of Japanese aliens were in fact engaging in espionage.
why weren’t these spies prosecuted when the war was over, as Kawakita was
Some were prosecuted, but many more were simply deported. You’ll have to go back and ask the FBI and War Department why they chose A vs B for a given spy. I was not present when those decisions were made, not having being born yet. My guess is that Kawakita actively tortured American POW’s which couldn’t be overlooked unlike a guy making phone calls letting the Japanese know that the USS Whatever was preparing to leave Long Beach. Also people had their hands full with the various post-war tasks that were taking priority.
notions of collective or racial guilt are deeply un-American and repugnant.
Strawman. Stick to the point – you argued that there was “no or few documented cases of …espionage”by Japanese aliens. You were wrong.
Unfortunately you weren’t there at the time to offer some suggestions as to successful ruses. Concealing the fact that codes had been broken was of utmost importance. Churchill allowed Coventry to be bombed by the Luftwaffe rather than reveal they’d broken the German codes.
You can object to the means if you wish, and you can certainly second guess actions taken. What you can not do is continue to insist that the internments happened for no reason. Saying something that is not true once makes one mistaken. Continue to say things that are not true makes one something much worse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese-American_service_in_World_War_IIReplies: @William Badwhite
The Simpson-Mazolli bill a/k/a 1986 amnesty was Simpson’s main “accomplishment” in his 50 years sucking the government teat.
That, and George H.W. Bush signing a 1990 law to inflate immigration to almost 1,000,000 third worlders per year has probably destroyed the U.S.A.
We don’t realize it yet, it is slow motion, like a glacier grinding down everything in its path too slowly to perceive in our short attention span.
https://humanevents.com/2007/06/04/simpsonmazzoli-twentyone-years-later/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/06/25/immigration_if_the_bill_passes_118960.html
The authors of the 1986 amnesty were not stupid. They knew they were stacking the deck with dependency voters. The other problems immigrants bring were also easily foreseen. Simpson was, in fact, against Historic America, judging by his actions.
“Well you’re right. Lincoln’s action, like so much he did, trampled on The Constitution.”
Actually, I never made that assertion. You are attributing your own sentiment to a comment I made. I thought only Jews played shell games.
“I guess the Constitution doesn’t say you can kill millions of your fellow citizens to prop up Northern business interests, but hey, he was a git ‘er done guy, and he got that done too.”
You mean “southern slavery”. Then again, you have a penchant for missing the obvious.
Further, I hate to admit it, but in some ways, the Left was probably right about Bush. His advisors were incompetent and in over their heads (thanks for giving the whole Middle East to Iran, you boneheads!) and he probably really was trying to do favors for his buddies at Halliburton / avenge Saddam for trying to take out his Dad. I was too young to vote in 2000, but again, in hindsight, a then somewhat sane Gore might have been much, much, much better.
Trump is doing what he can, but he is basically 20 years too late. The Bushes desroyed the GOP, and frankly, the country.Replies: @Thinking in Code
Yes, but.
The saddest thing is that every time I have to drastically lower my opinion of an earlier political figure (such as W.), it’s hard to conceive how it would have been any better if a rival had been in charge.
On 9/11 a President Gore would have been in a Florida classroom giving the kids an earful of Earth in the Balance. The next day: “As terrible as this event at the World Trade Center was, if we let it distract us from fighting global warming, the terrorists will have won.”
I have boundless contempt for the Kenyan Man of Mystery, but … McCain might actually have been worse. Or that empty bag of skin who ran against Obama in 2012, I forget his name.
American politics consists of two farm teams in the World Series, each sponsored by a different corporation.
Absolutely correct … in retrospect. At the time, there was no way to know that. Putting the Japanese Americans in camps was distasteful and I suspect even the officials who organized the internment realized it was unfair in most cases. We did a lot of things to win the war that were regrettable, like drafting millions of young men and sending them where they had a good chance of being shot or blown up. We asked for volunteers to fly missions in B-17s over Germany to socialize with enemy ace pilots and anti-aircraft gunners determined to kill them, and the odds of their surviving a tour of duty were so-so.
I talked with a World War II vet once who had served on a Navy ship in the Pacific. His most painful regret was remembering 18-year-old sailors who died in action.
Things were tough all over. The Japanese citizens in the camps didn’t have it that bad, considering.
Those Germans were foederati, not citizens and usually served under their own leaders, often as mercenaries. And they were liable to revolt and fight for their own agenda.
Comparing them to the patriotic heroes of the 442 RCT is sheer ignorance. Do some reading.
Further, the War Department mostly knew who they were, but decided not to arrest them because it was deemed more important to conceal the fact the Japanese encryption codes had been broken (MAGIC). Files relating to MAGIC were mostly declassified in 1977. In these files are the "documented case of...espionage" you insist don't exist.
The fact people continue to chirp the "it was due to racism and hysteria" canard is just another example of anti-American/pro-"other" propaganda. Similar to people that still insist Alger Hiss was not a Soviet spy even after the Venona transcripts revealed that he was, people seem to have made up their mind about the internment camps and those pesky declassified MAGIC files filled with inconvenient facts aren’t going to change their mind.
You continue to fail (refuse?) to draw a distinction between resident aliens and American citizens of Japanese descent. The Japanese interned were, for the most part, Japanese. The citizens interned were, for the part, the children of those Japanese. Further, those internees that were willing to relocate outside the Defense Zones (mostly the coastal parts of CA, OR, and WA) were allowed to leave the camps. Over 30,000 did so. Those that chose to relocate before internment were not interned at all. Again, the War Department knew who were cooperating with the Japanese and who weren’t. If they could separate the loyal wheat from the treasonous chaff in a way that wouldn’t reveal MAGIC had been broken, they were happy to do so.
However I will concede there were also some adult American citizens of Japanese descent that were also interned. These were mostly "Kibei" - American citizens that had been sent back to Japan for schooling (typically age 10-20) before returning to the US. There were about 20,000 Kibei in the US at the time of Pearl Harbor. Some were interned, some were not. Those not living in various designated areas of the west coast were not interned.
Many Kibei still in Japan at the time the war began served in the Imperial Navy and Imperial Army. One (Tom Kawakita, born in California) served as a POW camp guard and tortured numerous American POW's. After the war, Kawakita returned the US and enrolled at USC. He was recognized by a former POW, arrested in 1947, was convicted of 8 counts of treason and sentenced to death. Eisenhower later commuted his death sentence to life in prison. In 1963 JFK (on the request of the Japanese Prime Minister) commuted his sentence on the condition he never return to the US. He left for Japan in December of that year.
As I've said before, you often have the lawyer's bad habit of authoritatively opining on topics about which you are not well-informed. This is one of those topics. You wanting something to be true (all the Japanese that lived here were as Americanized as baseball and apple pie and mean racist FDR succumbed to hysteria and put them on “concentration camps”) does not make it true.Replies: @Jack D, @Twinkie
For someone who is lecturing others, you seem woefully misinformed about the subject: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans
Only a tiny fraction of Japanese-Americans were supportive of the Empire of Japan and most of these were quite public about it or readily admitted so when interviewed by agents of the U.S. government. The vast majority of the Japanese-Americans were “remarkably” loyal to the U.S.
Interestingly a quick scan of the sources on the Wiki page shows no reference to the declassified MAGIC files nor any testimony by either John McCloy or Karl Bendesten, two of the key officials involved in implementing the internments. That seems pretty shoddy to me, but then I'm not the one that considers Wikipedia to be a final source on anything.
If you want to continue believing that the internments were entirely an exercise in racist hysteria that was done for no reason at all, that is certainly your right.Replies: @Twinkie
If you do want some questionable conduct by Japanese Americans though, read about the Nihau incident. The fact that Japanese-Americans served honorably (in the European theater) has nothing to do with the FACT that hundreds of Japanese aliens were in fact engaging in espionage.
why weren’t these spies prosecuted when the war was over, as Kawakita was
Some were prosecuted, but many more were simply deported. You'll have to go back and ask the FBI and War Department why they chose A vs B for a given spy. I was not present when those decisions were made, not having being born yet. My guess is that Kawakita actively tortured American POW's which couldn't be overlooked unlike a guy making phone calls letting the Japanese know that the USS Whatever was preparing to leave Long Beach. Also people had their hands full with the various post-war tasks that were taking priority.
notions of collective or racial guilt are deeply un-American and repugnant.
Strawman. Stick to the point - you argued that there was "no or few documented cases of ...espionage"by Japanese aliens. You were wrong.Unfortunately you weren't there at the time to offer some suggestions as to successful ruses. Concealing the fact that codes had been broken was of utmost importance. Churchill allowed Coventry to be bombed by the Luftwaffe rather than reveal they'd broken the German codes.
You can object to the means if you wish, and you can certainly second guess actions taken. What you can not do is continue to insist that the internments happened for no reason. Saying something that is not true once makes one mistaken. Continue to say things that are not true makes one something much worse.Replies: @Twinkie
It wasn’t just the ETO:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese-American_service_in_World_War_II
Not lecturing, correcting. I wasn’t the one that asserted there were “few or no documented cases of…espionage by Japanese”. There were hundreds. This is not in debate. As I said to Jack you can object to how the government chose to deal with it, but to continue to insist there was no espionage is demonstrably false.
Wikipedia? Good grief. It takes a special brand of…person…to believe that having read a wikipedia page makes one informed.
Interestingly a quick scan of the sources on the Wiki page shows no reference to the declassified MAGIC files nor any testimony by either John McCloy or Karl Bendesten, two of the key officials involved in implementing the internments. That seems pretty shoddy to me, but then I’m not the one that considers Wikipedia to be a final source on anything.
If you want to continue believing that the internments were entirely an exercise in racist hysteria that was done for no reason at all, that is certainly your right.
2. Those sections all have citations, and are documented facts.I never wrote such a thing. But the scholarly and historical consensus is that the U.S. government was largely aware of the loyalty and the lack of hostility among Japanese-Americans, but gave in to popular fears and racial hysteria. That’s why the internment practices varied by regions and local political conditions (and Hawaii Japanese were never interned despite Hawaii being under the greatest threat).Your “corrections” such as a majority of the internees being non-citizens were wildly wrong.I read MAGIC and Michelle Malkin’s book, neither of which contradicts what I cited (btw, I know Malkin personally - lets just say she’s a political provocateur rather than an objective historian and leave it at that).His surname was Bendetsen, not Bendesten. He allegedly changed his name from Bendetson in 1942 to sound more Danish and less Jewish (and went on to claim Danish heritage despite descending from Lithuanian, German, and Polish Jews).
Yes, he was the administrator of Wartime Civil Control Administration and an architect of the internment who stated, “I am determined that if they have one drop of Japanese blood in them, they must go to camp.” He was later discredited for numerous fabrications about his family origin and war record (he exaggerated his importance to the army and minimized his role in internment).Again, stop the dumb straw men. I don’t trust Wikipedia, but it has fewer errors on average than traditional encyclopedias and is generally handy for quick citations and summaries.Replies: @William Badwhite
Sounds good to me. We’d save a pantload of welfare money, congestion would decrease, housing would be less expensive, and we would be rid of millions of parasites in government, academia, the media, ngos, etc. who suck on the public teat and lecture us Deplorables about what POSs we are.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese-American_service_in_World_War_IIReplies: @William Badwhite
Wiki cut-and-paste. Worthless.
Dems R the Real Racists.
Interestingly a quick scan of the sources on the Wiki page shows no reference to the declassified MAGIC files nor any testimony by either John McCloy or Karl Bendesten, two of the key officials involved in implementing the internments. That seems pretty shoddy to me, but then I'm not the one that considers Wikipedia to be a final source on anything.
If you want to continue believing that the internments were entirely an exercise in racist hysteria that was done for no reason at all, that is certainly your right.Replies: @Twinkie
1. That’s just dumb ad hominem.
2. Those sections all have citations, and are documented facts.
I never wrote such a thing. But the scholarly and historical consensus is that the U.S. government was largely aware of the loyalty and the lack of hostility among Japanese-Americans, but gave in to popular fears and racial hysteria. That’s why the internment practices varied by regions and local political conditions (and Hawaii Japanese were never interned despite Hawaii being under the greatest threat).
Your “corrections” such as a majority of the internees being non-citizens were wildly wrong.
I read MAGIC and Michelle Malkin’s book, neither of which contradicts what I cited (btw, I know Malkin personally – lets just say she’s a political provocateur rather than an objective historian and leave it at that).
His surname was Bendetsen, not Bendesten. He allegedly changed his name from Bendetson in 1942 to sound more Danish and less Jewish (and went on to claim Danish heritage despite descending from Lithuanian, German, and Polish Jews).
Yes, he was the administrator of Wartime Civil Control Administration and an architect of the internment who stated, “I am determined that if they have one drop of Japanese blood in them, they must go to camp.” He was later discredited for numerous fabrications about his family origin and war record (he exaggerated his importance to the army and minimized his role in internment).
Again, stop the dumb straw men. I don’t trust Wikipedia, but it has fewer errors on average than traditional encyclopedias and is generally handy for quick citations and summaries.
As opposed to your completely uncited say-so and assertions?
Learn to stop digging when you are in a hole already.
2. Those sections all have citations, and are documented facts.I never wrote such a thing. But the scholarly and historical consensus is that the U.S. government was largely aware of the loyalty and the lack of hostility among Japanese-Americans, but gave in to popular fears and racial hysteria. That’s why the internment practices varied by regions and local political conditions (and Hawaii Japanese were never interned despite Hawaii being under the greatest threat).Your “corrections” such as a majority of the internees being non-citizens were wildly wrong.I read MAGIC and Michelle Malkin’s book, neither of which contradicts what I cited (btw, I know Malkin personally - lets just say she’s a political provocateur rather than an objective historian and leave it at that).His surname was Bendetsen, not Bendesten. He allegedly changed his name from Bendetson in 1942 to sound more Danish and less Jewish (and went on to claim Danish heritage despite descending from Lithuanian, German, and Polish Jews).
Yes, he was the administrator of Wartime Civil Control Administration and an architect of the internment who stated, “I am determined that if they have one drop of Japanese blood in them, they must go to camp.” He was later discredited for numerous fabrications about his family origin and war record (he exaggerated his importance to the army and minimized his role in internment).Again, stop the dumb straw men. I don’t trust Wikipedia, but it has fewer errors on average than traditional encyclopedias and is generally handy for quick citations and summaries.Replies: @William Badwhite
Ad hominem would be me attacking you as opposed to your sources. I did not do that. You should learn what terms mean before using them. Your use of “dumb” could be ad hominem though.
Right. Documented facts such as: “Children of the Camps”. PBS.org. Retrieved February 10, 2015″ and “Sleeper, Lu Ann (2013). Interview of Nancy Ikeda Baldwin (PDF). Regional Oral History Office, Bancroft Library”.
Or how about this source for one of the sections you put in bold: “Weglyn, Michi Nishiura. Years of Infamy (New York: William Morrow & Company, 1976) p34”
Oral histories and PBS documentaries are not what people think of as “documented facts”. “Documented facts” does not mean what you think it means. You should learn what terms mean before using them.
Speaking of straw men…I said those interned were primarily Japanese aliens (i.e. not citizens) and that the citizens interned were mainly their minor children, which is true. I also mentioned the “Kihei” who I noted were also citizens.
My correction was to Jack’s assertion that there were “no or few” instances of espionage among the Japanese living in America. There were. Hundreds. You chimed in later with your cut-and-paste spam.
That’s because what you cited (by which you mean “cut-and-pasted”) didn’t address the central point – whether or not there were documented cases of espionage among the Japanese living in America.
Weird. Both you and Jack D mention Malkin’s book. Congrats on having read it. I didn’t mention it and haven’t read it. Are you his sock puppet? Btw I call bullshit that you’ve “read MAGIC”. “MAGIC”, by which I assume you mean the declassified files, is not a book. Its a collection of government files. If you had read them, you would know that there were hundreds of cases of espionage. You inscrutable Asians, always trying to get away with something!
Again, you and Jack are the only people that have brought up Malkin.
Your entire response was cut-and-pasted from Wikipedia. Its kind of hard to engage your comment without addressing Wikipedia. I don’t think “straw man” means what you think it does. You should learn what terms mean before using them.
Since you brought up ad hominem, I’ll engage in some: I get that your Asian-ness makes you sensitive to all this, but you should grow some thicker skin. And read something besides Wikipedia. Lastly, you have to go back.
Now, go back.
By the way, if you bothered to read my comments carefully and then typed a few words in a search engine, you’d realize that the relevant primary sources are readily available. See, for example, the entire Ringle report: https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/r/ringle-report-on-japanese-internment.htmlYou should stop masturbating to The Turner Diaries.Replies: @William Badwhite
Btw I just figured out why you call yourself Twinkie. That’s pretty funny actually. And clever.
Now, go back.
If 110,000 were interned including 30,000 children, and we make the patently absurd assumption that all 30,000 were the children of resident aliens, and 62% of internees were citizens including said children, the children of aliens do not make up a majority of those citizens interned.
You are welcome to contradict what I cited with references/citations of your own.
By the way, if you bothered to read my comments carefully and then typed a few words in a search engine, you’d realize that the relevant primary sources are readily available. See, for example, the entire Ringle report: https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/r/ringle-report-on-japanese-internment.html
You should stop masturbating to The Turner Diaries.
Are you seriously lecturing me about MAGIC? I used to do counterterrorism work (I worked on transnational organized crime pre-9/11 and was then “repurposed” after the attacks).
Now, shhh.
Yes. Basic math. But that guys is going to keep digging the hole he is in.
I’m not lecturing you, I’m saying I don’t believe you.
Now, shhh.
By the way, if you bothered to read my comments carefully and then typed a few words in a search engine, you’d realize that the relevant primary sources are readily available. See, for example, the entire Ringle report: https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/r/ringle-report-on-japanese-internment.htmlYou should stop masturbating to The Turner Diaries.Replies: @William Badwhite
Thanks Corvinus, but I don’t take homework assignments from other commenters. For the 14th time, I responded to the assertion that were “no or few documented cases of…espionage” by Japanese living in the United States. I countered that were in fact hundreds and provide a citation (the MAGIC files). You have yet to provide a counter to that. You are good at cutting-and-pasting Wiki and providing irrelevant links though.
Malkin’s book, Turner Diaries. I’ve read neither. Why you keep making references to random books that have nothing to do with the topic at hand I have no idea. Maybe something to do with your inherent Asian beta weirdness.
Lets stick to something you perhaps can handle: use less starch in my shirts next time.
But you didn’t actually cite anything. Citation requires document and page number.
I addressed other comments of yours that were factually wrong, to none of which you referred since, likely because you know you were completely misinformed. You are clearly one of these low IQ individuals who cannot ever admit that he was wrong about anything, even when it’s crystal clear to anyone reading this thread, which leads you to write dumb stuff such as this:Grow up.Replies: @Johann Ricke
That’s a dispute between you and another commenter, and I did not address that at all, pro or con.
But you didn’t actually cite anything. Citation requires document and page number.
I addressed other comments of yours that were factually wrong, to none of which you referred since, likely because you know you were completely misinformed. You are clearly one of these low IQ individuals who cannot ever admit that he was wrong about anything, even when it’s crystal clear to anyone reading this thread, which leads you to write dumb stuff such as this:
Grow up.
But you didn’t actually cite anything. Citation requires document and page number.
I addressed other comments of yours that were factually wrong, to none of which you referred since, likely because you know you were completely misinformed. You are clearly one of these low IQ individuals who cannot ever admit that he was wrong about anything, even when it’s crystal clear to anyone reading this thread, which leads you to write dumb stuff such as this:Grow up.Replies: @Johann Ricke
Robert Heinlein penned an amusing adage that seems apropos: “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig”.
Yes, this is why I’ve cut back significantly on commenting. Net Nazis are about as rational and coherent as social justice warriors, and just as juvenile and annoying.
It’s not just Nazis. There’s a subset of people who have very strong basic beliefs not subject to evidence-based contradiction. It’s like trying to convince a devout Muslim that Allah isn’t real.
At 1,823 comments year-to-date you’re not doing a very good job of cutting back. You’re on pace to exceed your 2018 chirping.
And to think you were whining about “ad hominem” not long ago.