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A wonderful, joyful day, a jubilant summit! On the bloody 38th parallel, for the first time in many years, the two Koreans met, the leaders of the two Korean states. There were affable smiles and a spontaneous brief and unscripted visit of the southern president to the northern country, and then the northern one – to the southern one. Kim led his colleague over the concrete lump marking the border of two worlds. Now there are hopes of getting out of the impasse into which the Koreans were driven, and on the horizon – the hope of the two states’ reunification.

Only a few weeks ago, President Trump had threatened to erase North Korea from the face of the earth and kill tens of millions of civilians, boasting that he had a bigger red button (or was it missile?) than Kim. It turned out that Kim’s will was stronger than the American’s will; and willpower is more important than gun power. And best is will power reinforced by armed force.

Trump’s threats bore an unexpected benefit: the President of South Korea looked into the abyss and saw his country and his people driven to annihilation. He saw that – and took a step towards reconciliation, showing an unexpected independence of mind.

You can compare the two Koreas in different ways. You can say: one is rich, the other one is poor. One is for the market, the other one is communist. One is the country of Samsung, and the other one has nuclear weapons. Alternatively, you can say: one Korean state is independent – North Korea – while the other one is occupied – South Korea. This is a fact, not an opinion.

Many years have passed since the forces of its former allies, the Russians and the Chinese, left North Korea, but the Americans do not even think about leaving the South. The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do. But the ruler of the South, Moon, must defer to Washington for every important decision. Many presidents of the South have been removed, imprisoned, or killed by the Americans and their agents for their attempts to reconcile with the North. We’ll see whether Moon will be able to stay in the presidential palace after this summit, but he took a chance, and this will be written to his credit in the history books.

There is no doubt that the people of Korea, of the North and the South, want peaceful reunification and the prosperity of their country. But so far the US has prevented it. The US deep state preferred to have its military bases in South Korea with its nuclear weapons aimed not only at Pyongyang, but also at Beijing and Vladivostok. Last year, the US brought in its THAAD missile defence system to South Korea, directly threatening the North, Russia, and China.

The Americans outlined the goal of the talks as they see it – the nuclear disarmament of North Korea. This is all that interests them. A North Korea without nuclear weapons is always vulnerable to a volley of Tomahawks, as in Syria. But Kim is not that simple. Instead of “nuclear disarmament of North Korea,” he proposed “the liberation of the Korean peninsula from nuclear weapons” – and, importantly, these words were repeated by the president of the South.

The liberation of the peninsula from nuclear weapons means, first of all, the removal of American bases and occupation forces, and the banning of American ships capable of carrying nuclear weapons from entering Korean ports. And then, without the invaders being present, the two independent Koreas will agree on their own terms. This, roughly, is the logic of Kim – and Moon accepted it, uttering the cherished words “the liberation of the peninsula” instead of “the elimination of the North Korean nuclear program.”

Russia as an original member of the nuclear club has traditionally supported the idea of ​​nuclear disarmament of all non-member countries. But it does not actively insist on it, if only because India, Pakistan and Israel are among the new nuclear powers, and the last not only did not sign the non-proliferation treaty, but also does not agree with any control over its nuclear weaponry. Under these conditions, it makes no sense to insist on the nuclear disarmament of North Korea. But, let us repeat, Russia is for disarmament. If this disarmament brings about the elimination of US bases in South Korea, this can only be welcomed.

The summit in the DMZ (demilitarized zone) has already had an effect. We have no doubt that the North is short of freedom, but in the South, there is certainly freedom of speech, isn’t there?

It turned out that in South Korea until this very day no one had seen or heard Kim, the North Korean president, on a video or in live broadcast. The Independent, a British quality newspaper, reported:

Until the meeting, many South Koreans had never actually heard Kim Jong-un speak. The leader is usually seen only in heavily edited footage, and accessing more videos of him can land people in jail. “I can’t believe I’m listening to the voice of Kim Jong Un. Someone I have only seen as a jpeg is speaking now,” South Korean Lee Yeon-su wrote on Twitter. It is a dramatic change for South Koreans, who under the National Security Act are banned on threat of jail from accessing media considered pro-North Korean.

Internet resources “sympathetic to North Korea” or, worse, praising North Korea, are banned there; and accessing such sites, or listening to Pyongyang Radio can send a South Korean to prison for several years. A good word about the northern neighbour can earn you a long stretch in jail under the Law on Combating Terrorism.(The law also provides for the death penalty, but it has not been used for the last ten years.) Anti-communist propaganda in the South is part of the school curriculum, part of the news program, part of everyday life.

After the summit, the surprised South Koreans wrote in their social media that the bloody tyrant from the North looked like a teddy bear, small, plump and cute.

And he speaks the same language as they do. And he eats buckwheat noodles, which they love.

ORDER IT NOW

Demonization of North Korea was the first victim of the summit: the South Koreans saw that the much besmirched Kim was quite a worldly guy, even with a very slight trace of Swiss German in his speech. Women’s diplomacy also played a role: Kim’s sister, Kim Yo Jong, made the first contact with the President of the South during her visit to the Olympics. Kim’s wife, a well-known actress, became friends with Moon’s wife. This North Korean ruler is a regular guy, they say today in Seoul.

At the NATO headquarters there was a lot of teeth gnashing and demands not to relax the sanctions, or rather to add some more sanctions. The Western mainstream media keeps saying that this summit had been just a preparation for the real main thing, for the meeting of Kim and Trump. But a sharp-sighted observer of The Guardian had noticed that it won’t be easy for Trump to do his usual bellicose sabre-rattling after the peaceful meeting of the two Korean leaders. He has been trapped. “If Trump tries to play hardball with Kim, he risks looking like a warmonger and a bully whose policies are inimical to Korean interests, north and south. Intentionally of otherwise, Moon, a lifelong advocate of detente with personal connections to North Korea, has spiked Trump’s guns.”

Actually, there is not much of reason for the Trump-Kim summit. Trump can take his troops home, and let the Koreans to settle their relations as they find fit. If the Russians and the Chinese did it, so can the Americans, too. The world, including Korea, is fully grown up and it can live without American tutelage.

It won’t be easy sailing. The US wants to keep its fingers in, and demands “complete, verifiable and irreversible” disarmament of North Korea. But Kim knows what had happened to countries and leaders that trusted the US promises and disarmed. Gadhafi and Saddam Hussein disarmed, and were brutally killed. Russia disarmed in 1991 only to find itself being treated as irrelevant. The US walked out of treaties made in the Soviet days without as much as “by your leave”. Non-nuclear North Korea would already be bombed, as it was in 1950-1953. Nothing indicates that Kim is a suicidal maniac or a new Gorbachev.

There was an agreement for the nuclear disarmament of North Korea, and the US reneged on it all right. There is an agreement for the denuclearisation of Iran, and now the US President intends to renege on it, too.

However, if the US withdraws its troops and agrees to denuclearisation of the peninsula, and if this withdrawal will be “complete, verifiable and irreversible”, there is a room for some play. North Korea would like to be treated as a responsible member of the nuclear club, on a par with England and France; it may cease nuclear tests and allow observers or suchlike.

Israel, this important power behind the Capitol Hill, bears a strong animosity against North Korea, for North Korea has been instrumental in providing missile technology to the Axis of Resistance.

The Russians are not going to great lengths for the sake of North Korea. The relations between two neighbours are cool, mutual trade is small. Russia will probably follow China’s line regarding Korea. The Chinese would like to see a more obedient North Korea, but they are used to fierce Korean independence by now. They apparently agreed to Kim’s steps during recent Kim’s meeting with President Xi.

In such a happy, happy day for Korea, I do not want to think about possible complications. For the first time in years, light has appeared in the gloomy skies of Korea, divided in 1945, and never reunited, unlike Vietnam and Germany. Maybe now it’s Korea’s turn?

Israel Shamir can be reached at [email protected]

This article was first published at The Unz Review.

 
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  1. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    Great article Isreal. You touched on all the important things.

    America, and Trump, will be exposed by Korea and Kim. Either Trump is sincere in wanting peace or he is not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moi
    Sincerity is not a word that comes to mind when I think of Trump. There can be no reconciliation until the US pulls out from the peninsula completely-that's something we don't do.
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  2. peterAUS says:

    Stopped reading at:

    It turned out that Kim’s will was stronger than the American’s will….

    Weird.
    Makes sense why would somebody write that here, but still…….
    Weird.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Kim obviously overplayed his hand.

    Probably he could've stayed in his box until forever, if he didn't try to quickly force through a full ICBM deterrent.

    But those tests created the precondition for the sanctions. After China acquiesced to the sanctions, there was no way out for him.

    Now to be honest I cannot see him in power 20 years from now.
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  3. Biff says:

    Alternatively, you can say: one Korean state is independent – North Korea – while the other one is occupied – South Korea. This is a fact, not an opinion.

    This is the biggest obstacle to peace, and it is South Korean will power that will be most important.

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  4. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.

    The people of the North have a choice in the matter? ROTFL. They have no choice but to agree.

    North is politically independent but systematically remains colonized by Stalinism that was implemented under Soviet occupation. Stalinism + Dynasticism never allowed for the development of true nationalism. The whole nation became a Family Cult not unlike the Moonie the Loony of Unification Church. Soviets are long gone from Korea but its system still plagues that nation.

    South is a puppet of the US, but US political influence was, on the whole, positive until recently. US once supported authoritarianism that was still better than totalitarianism. Also, SK and many such nations back then were not ready for democracy. Even under military government, South Korea had plenty of social and economic freedom like China today. So, even as SK lacked political independence of NK, it was freer and more dynamic.

    Also, until the vast changes in the 90s, US was ruled by white Christian America. Its cultural and moral influence were good on the whole. But since then, US has been Jewish-and-homo-ruled, and its influence has been risible around the world, what with Homomania as the battle cry of New Empire. Ghetto rap is what American freedom is about.
    And Diversity and ‘inclusion’ which are really tools of imperialism. Prior to Jewish-and-homo takeover, the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations. US back then would never have urged Poland or Hungary to take in tons of Africans and Muslims. If anything, it was telling Eastern European nations to seek national independence from the Soviet Empire. Now, the US message to the world is WELCOME INVASION and SURRENDER IDENTITY.

    Anyway, the case of China and Korea show that national independence isn’t enough. Red China was independent, but Mao was terrible. In contrast, US-occupied Taiwan and UK-occupied Hong Kong did much better. Lots of good influence from what became benevolent and enlightened imperialism. Imperialism can’t last forever but it can pass good ideas from one place to another.

    But I don’t think good ideas can pass from US and UK to other parts of the world anymore. The cultural and ideological landscape of both is pure poison from homomania, to pornification of even Disney, to PC tyranny, to destruction of the past, and vileness all around.
    UK welcomes invasion, so what is its message to other nations? Welcome invasion, worship negroes and homos, and support any war for Israel. How utterly rotten.

    Many presidents of the South have been removed, imprisoned, or killed by the Americans and their agents for their attempts to reconcile with the North.

    Who would they be? Park was killed because he wanted reconciliation with the North? I know there’s a theory that says he was killed cuz he wanted nukes, but I don’t buy it.
    Since his assassination, no other president has been assassinated in SK. Some were arrested but for corruption.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Biff

    the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations.
     
    Tell that to the Vietnamese, Iranians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Haitians, Philippinos, etc.....
    , @James Brown
    Agree with what you wrote about NK and SK. As you know the writer of this piece is an admirer of Staline and the former URSS therefore NK is probably a country he admires.
    It doesn't matter that NK is a brutal dictatorship because she is "Independent".

    But you also wrote this: "Also, until the vast changes in the 90s, US was ruled by white Christian America. Its cultural and moral influence were good on the whole. "

    The USA has never been ruled by "white Christian".

    Ask Indians and Blacks ,that you, presumably consider as inferior human beings, to what happened to them.

    Genocide and Slavery, can be considered as "Christian". ?

    Ask to millions of "colored people" killed by the "white Christian" around the world, even before the Jewish "coup d'état" in the USA

    From the beginning, The USA, was always a criminal enterprise.

    This is not incompatible with the fact that those who were lucky to belong to the right race were able to make a good living and buy lots stuff and even become self-made millionaire.

    Because USA has never been ruled by "white Christian", this explains why the so called "Christians" in the USA and Europe became in XIX century...Jewish, resolving this way " the Jewish question."

    There were some exceptions...In the USA, for example, the Quakers were Christians.

    , @anon
    "the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations"

    WTF!!!!

    "South is a puppet of the US, but US political influence was, on the whole, positive until recently."

    WTF!!!

    You are wrong. I hope it is not intentional like the workings of minds of the lying American leaders and paid media shill .
    , @CalDre

    The people of the North have a choice in the matter? ROTFL. They have no choice but to agree.
     
    Oh yeah? And what choice do you have in the fucking US of A? You can pull a lever every 2 years? Then what? Go on a protest and get tear-gassed, kettled, beaten and imprisoned but otherwise ignored? Then what?

    You have some f*ed up notion of governmental accountability. Western "democracies" are an abject joke, there's nothing whatsoever democratic about them, aside from Switzerland and maybe some Nordic countries. It's all controlled opposition and political theater. In the end you are still under the boot of the Government Thugs.

    US has a higher prison population than anyone else in the world. That's the government thug boot on your neck. More than anywhere else.
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  5. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    If the Russians and the Chinese did it, so can the Americans, too. The world, including Korea, is fully grown up and it can live without American tutelage.

    This is true today. But back in the first half of the Cold War, there was a reason why the US remained in SK. Communist powers were more aggressive and tougher. With the US, the north would tried to invade again.
    In Vietnam, the South couldn’t hold its own against the North. US left the South in 73, but within 2 yrs, the North took it.
    Mao made mincemeat of the KMT in China. And if not for the US, north would have taken the south in Korea. And until the late 70s, any war between NK and SK would have favored the north without Americans defending the South. Even in the early 80s, the NK might have won in a head to head conflict because of its tougher discipline and resolve. So, the US had legit reasons for staying back then.

    Russia and China left NK because it knew for sure that Kim was loyal and SK & US would not try to invade NK. In contrast, USSR did occupy Afghanistan to prop its puppet regime there. And because Soviets knew that communist regimes didn’t have the support of the people in Eastern Europe, the occupation lasted until the end of the Cold War.

    Anyway, the original reason for US presence in Korea is long gone. US is there now because of China. And in some ways, SK and even NK sort of appreciate US presence in the Pacific because, without the US, the big powers are Japan and China with Korea squeezed in between.
    Similarly, Vietnam, once a bitter enemy of the US, welcomes US presence in SE Asia as counterweight against China, which is now much stronger than in the late 70s when it performed lousily in the Sino-Vietnam war.

    Still, it’s about time US left the Asia Pacific. World Chess is for those in the Deep State and Pentagon who are addicted to the imperial game. For most Americans, the real security issue is borders and mass invasion, aka non-white immigration.

    But Kim knows what had happened to countries and leaders that trusted the US promises and disarmed. Gadhafi and Saddam Hussein disarmed, and were brutally killed.

    True, but NK has support in China and possibly with SK that might not agree with US war plans.

    In contrast, Iraq and Libya were isolated. They had no backup or support.
    Lucky for Syria, it had backup in Russia and Iran. Otherwise, it would have gone the way of Libya.

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  6. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    The Chinese would like to see a more obedient North Korea, but they are used to fierce Korean independence by now. They apparently agreed to Kim’s steps during recent Kim’s meeting with President Xi.

    Chinese are adults or have been since the death of erratic Mao.

    Kim is a spoiled brat. But maybe he’s maturing a bit.

    For a time, China washed its hands of NK because Kim executed China’s man in NK. Maybe Kim and cronies saw the guy as a shill of China. I dunno. Anyway, it pissed off China big time.
    And then, Kim began to act like a total retard, making threats about shooting nukes at the US. Instead of making a rational case for nukes based on US neo-imperialism before the UN, the moron just acted the gangsta. This was GREAT for warmongers in the US. After all, Lil’ Kim was bragging about how he’s gonna build missiles that can reach the US. Just what the warmongers wanted to hear.
    Kim could have garnered international sympathy IF he’d used cool and rational rhetoric about why a poor weak nation like NK needs nukes as defense against US as bully. But the kid was raised a spoiled brat and grew up listening to US pop music. So, he moron decided to play gangsta, and it just turned into a bonanza for warmongers in the US. NK’s rhetoric was so over-the-top that even anti-American activists around the world didn’t want to take sides with NK. How can you have a rational discussion with a moron who can barely feed his people but acts like his nation constitutes the other superpower?

    This made China esp angry. China has been very patient but now Kim was acting like Bam Bam on FLINSTONES. NK’s threats served as easy rationale for the US to put in THAAD missiles aimed at China. And then, when Trump threatened war, China got really pissed with NK. The last thing China wants is a war on its border. Also, Trump used NK as issue to apply economic pressure on China. So, China finally decided to join the US in totally squeezing NK. This is why spoiled brat Kim finally wised up. The squeeze was so tight that he had no choice but to negotiate. Also, unlike previous presidents, Trump sounded like a madman… as in Kissinger’s ‘mad man theory’. So, Kim got really worried. What if crazy Trump really starts war and smashed NK? Why, he will lose all his toys an palaces. So, Kim decided to talk with the US.
    It was then that China figured it better ease tensions with NK too. After all, if NK manages to cut a deal with the US and Japan, then China will be left out and may lose NK as a clientele. So, China decided to be nice and open relations again. This is good for Kim because he has China behind his back. Even if he gives up his nukes, it will be difficult for US to attack NK since China is an ally again. And it’s good for China because if Kim behaves, makes peace, and grows up, everyone can do business.

    Some may argue that Kim’s nuclear brinkmanship was genius as political theater. By raising the stakes, he forced the US to the table. And because the US and allies are so hellbent on getting rid of NK’s nukes, they will be willing to pay big in aid and trade if NK decides to comply.
    But I don’t think so. Kim is too stupid to have foresight or meaningful strategy. He talks about buckwheat noodles in SK. NK is an odd nation with ONLY ONE fatty. Whenever you see NK regime, Kim is the only fatty among lean people. It goes to show that even away from home, the ONLY thing on his mind is food.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I'd agree to a lot of your points, but Kim being fat has very little to do with his love of food.

    When it became clear that his father was too ill to last for long, and he'd have to succeed him while still being young, his father or some advisers proposed him to take on weight, so that he'd look older and more formidable. Don't look at him through your own eyes, because we with our fitness culture cannot comprehend how a fat guy could look more like a leader than, say, a muscular one, but that's Korean (and especially North Korean) culture for you.

    So that's why he got fat using a special diet.
    , @RudyM
    Buckwheat noodles are good.
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  7. Biff says:
    @Anon
    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.

    The people of the North have a choice in the matter? ROTFL. They have no choice but to agree.

    North is politically independent but systematically remains colonized by Stalinism that was implemented under Soviet occupation. Stalinism + Dynasticism never allowed for the development of true nationalism. The whole nation became a Family Cult not unlike the Moonie the Loony of Unification Church. Soviets are long gone from Korea but its system still plagues that nation.

    South is a puppet of the US, but US political influence was, on the whole, positive until recently. US once supported authoritarianism that was still better than totalitarianism. Also, SK and many such nations back then were not ready for democracy. Even under military government, South Korea had plenty of social and economic freedom like China today. So, even as SK lacked political independence of NK, it was freer and more dynamic.

    Also, until the vast changes in the 90s, US was ruled by white Christian America. Its cultural and moral influence were good on the whole. But since then, US has been Jewish-and-homo-ruled, and its influence has been risible around the world, what with Homomania as the battle cry of New Empire. Ghetto rap is what American freedom is about.
    And Diversity and 'inclusion' which are really tools of imperialism. Prior to Jewish-and-homo takeover, the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations. US back then would never have urged Poland or Hungary to take in tons of Africans and Muslims. If anything, it was telling Eastern European nations to seek national independence from the Soviet Empire. Now, the US message to the world is WELCOME INVASION and SURRENDER IDENTITY.

    Anyway, the case of China and Korea show that national independence isn't enough. Red China was independent, but Mao was terrible. In contrast, US-occupied Taiwan and UK-occupied Hong Kong did much better. Lots of good influence from what became benevolent and enlightened imperialism. Imperialism can't last forever but it can pass good ideas from one place to another.

    But I don't think good ideas can pass from US and UK to other parts of the world anymore. The cultural and ideological landscape of both is pure poison from homomania, to pornification of even Disney, to PC tyranny, to destruction of the past, and vileness all around.
    UK welcomes invasion, so what is its message to other nations? Welcome invasion, worship negroes and homos, and support any war for Israel. How utterly rotten.

    Many presidents of the South have been removed, imprisoned, or killed by the Americans and their agents for their attempts to reconcile with the North.

    Who would they be? Park was killed because he wanted reconciliation with the North? I know there's a theory that says he was killed cuz he wanted nukes, but I don't buy it.
    Since his assassination, no other president has been assassinated in SK. Some were arrested but for corruption.

    the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations.

    Tell that to the Vietnamese, Iranians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Haitians, Philippinos, etc…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Tell that to the Vietnamese, Iranians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Haitians, Philippinos, etc…

    US got involved in Vietnam, Iran, and Guatemala for ideological or economic issues. US was interested in controlling the politics of those nations, not changing the entire makeup of the nation.

    In contrast, the US wants to change the entire makeup of not only the US but other nations. US elites tell Poland and Hungary and Japan to abolish themselves and worship Homomania. When the US promotes Diversity, it is encouraging Invasive Demographic Imperialism on all nations(but Israel).

    As for Cuba and Philippines, US 'inherited' them from the Spanish Empire. Cuba was never an independent nation but created of an empire. Philippines was also won from the Spanish. But the US did let Philippines go. If Philippines has remained close to the US, it's because the people there are idiots who depend on others to get any thing done.
    And US never did anything decisive against Castro. Bay of Pigs fizzled. If anything, the embargo only pressured Cuba to develop more independently from the US sphere.
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  8. Demonised.
    It is not true that the north Korean regime is the worst in the world ?
    That the country is so poor that even an official car does not have windshield wipers, as I saw when a foreign tv crew was driven around ?
    What the crew also recorded was that when their minders in the official car saw a deer they were so excited, food, that they tried to shoot it.
    Then there was the empty luxury hotel, just the crew.
    The empty streets were another sign.
    Then there was an undercover video made just outside a N Korean concentration camp, made by a N Korean who had succeeded in fleeing to China, but wanted to show the world the misery in his country.
    We do not need the stories about Kim killing his enemies by literally throwing them before dogs.
    What we know for sure is bad enough.
    With such a regime the USA strikes a deal.
    I do realise that in politics one has to make dirty hands, but if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    Read More
    • Troll: Kiza
    • Replies: @TT
    Those so keen on pushing the war should pls at least read up abit on the history of Korean war, see NK remarkable social achievements(go google beautiful North Korea pictures, its not what msm has brainwashed you), and who is benefiting in racking up all these war tension. How can one bear to destroy these decent cities and kill all these innocent people? If you still do, you ought to see a psychiatrist immediately.

    Who is the real evil demon? NK or US?

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-versus-the-united-states-who-are-the-demons/28342

    Achievement of NK in healthcare, education…

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-their-health-system-sucks-do-they-have-schools-and-hospitals-in-america-weve-got-medicare/5604293

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-social-and-economic-achievements-of-north-korea/5594234

    Blame Kim for their poverty, courtesy of axis of evils embargo by 5lies US Nato UK, Canada, Oz.

    Some beautiful photos of NK.

    Mansudae Grand Monument
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8749/16649315544_191425092c_b.jpg

    Sunset view overlooking
    the Grand People's Study House
    https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7665/16651540723_5289a0b900_b.jpg

    The city of Pyongyang
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8818/17064350307_68240fd478_b.jpg

    A Farmer and his Child at Chonsam Cooperative Farm
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8782/17084227210_c6ab2f0ffa_b.jpg

    Koryo Museum Entrance
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8767/16649314244_6b0777744b_b.jpg

    Wonsan City
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8743/17085561229_f72bcf36f6_b.jpg

    Pyongyang City
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8757/16649315904_3dab014a61_b.jpg

    http://www.todaynews24h.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/If-North-Korea-does-not-suffer-the-worlds-embargo-then-North-Korea-will-likely-be-the-power.jpg

    http://www.todaynews24h.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/If-North-Korea-does-not-suffer-the-worlds-embargo-then-North-Korea-will-likely-be-the-power-1.jpg

    The city with the unique architecture building, along a straight Highway
    http://www.todaynews24h.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/If-North-Korea-does-not-suffer-the-worlds-embargo-then-North-Korea-will-likely-be-the-power-4.jpg

    http://www.todaynews24h.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/If-North-Korea-does-not-suffer-the-worlds-embargo-then-North-Korea-will-likely-be-the-power-5.jpg

    https://www.bradtguides.com/articles/why-visit-north-korea/

    http://2northkorea.com/sites/default/files/field/image/13-north-korea.jpg

    https://www.bradtguides.com/media/wysiwyg/destinations/asia/North-Korea/International_Friendship_Exhibition_Uwe-Brodrecht_wikicommons.jpg

    Majon beach
    https://www.bradtguides.com/media/wysiwyg/destinations/asia/North-Korea/P-North-Korea-Majon-Beach-HilaryBradt.jpg
    , @Malaysian Truther
    This may be true but this is a matter for North Koreans or more formally citizens of the DPRK only - not South Korea and absolutely not anyone else.

    I see a glimmer of hope - and for Kim Jong Un, long term survival probably relies on a strictly controlled 'Deng Xiaoping drive' to a socialist market economy.

    I am sure the South Koreans don't mind about unification - the few I have spoken to are not interested claiming the North is a very different country (which after 70 years behind the highest and strongest Iron Curtain may be true)

    The question is are the Americans interested? Trump in his original MAGA creation would probably be but not the Neo-Con military-industrial complex.

    Kim Jong Un needs to put his cards on the table - no nuclear weapons for no US military bases and troops on the Peninsula and China needs to pile on the economic pressure (quietly of course) with South Korea
    , @Anonymous
    Who cares about windshield wipers. Their country was sanctioned into the ground. Let's see how well your country could handle such harsh global conditions.
    , @Twodees Partain
    "With such a regime the USA strikes a deal. "

    I'm glad you aren't in charge. You didn't read the article, obviously, because you have demonstrated that you do possess good reading comprehension by commenting on articles you link to in your comments.

    If you had read it you would know that no deal has been made between the US and NK.

    Read this one:
    https://tomluongo.me/2018/04/27/peace-breaks-out-in-korea-lil-rocket-man-turns-statesman/

    It has a nuance a little different from Shamir's article and might get through to you simply by virtue of having been written by someone you don't dismiss without reading. I hope so, anyway. For all I know you hate Tom Luongo, too.

    , @peterAUS

    ....if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.
     
    Agree.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Then join a mercenary group and go fight. Our kids aren’t dying for it.
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  9. jim jones says:

    Trump supporters chant “Nobel”:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frankie P
    After Obama was awarded the Nobel for... nothing, are you surprised that Americans think it should be handed out like candy on Halloween night?

    Frankie P
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  10. @peterAUS
    Stopped reading at:

    It turned out that Kim’s will was stronger than the American’s will....
     
    Weird.
    Makes sense why would somebody write that here, but still.......
    Weird.

    Kim obviously overplayed his hand.

    Probably he could’ve stayed in his box until forever, if he didn’t try to quickly force through a full ICBM deterrent.

    But those tests created the precondition for the sanctions. After China acquiesced to the sanctions, there was no way out for him.

    Now to be honest I cannot see him in power 20 years from now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Uh,


    North Korea has survived sanctions for more than fifty years. Neither sanctions, nor name calling ro threats are new to North Korean leadership. They did not work with his father, and doubtful they played for much in the present.

    If Pres Kim Jung Un does abandon wmd, it will have been because of his relations with S. Korea. In other words, South Korea begins a process of demilitarization, that us at least the assessment of this article.
    , @Mike P

    Probably he could’ve stayed in his box until forever, if he didn’t try to quickly force through a full ICBM deterrent.
     
    You mean just like Qaddafi and Saddam were allowed to? Oh I get it, when you say "box," you really mean "coffin."

    Considering the recent aggressions of the U.S. in the Middle East - including the use, apparently, of a neutron bomb at Baghdad in 2003 - and the honour of being short-listed as a member of the "Axis of Evil" it is clear NK had to do something to protect itself .

    NK has had the ability to wipe out Seoul for a long time. However, given NK's own experience with US warfare - according to the U.S. themselves, about 1/5 of NK's population were killed in the Korean War - he could not assume that this deterrent would be sufficient; he had to demonstrate that he can do more serious damage to U.S. interests than that. And he had to do it fast and forcefully, driving his point home before the U.S. warmongers could get organised and start another "preventive" war.

    You may be right that China's sanctions forced him to change his tactics. However, for the moment, NK has established itself as a de-facto nuclear power, and Kim is not going to give up that advantage for nothing. At the same time, he has forced the U.S. to cede the lead management of the entire crisis to China; this benefits both China and NK.

    "Denuclearization of the entire Korean peninsula" will pretty much require withdrawal of the U.S. forces from SK, and he likely has China's backing in making this demand. Moon seems to be on board with this idea, and it would be very surprising if he did not have Trump's approval for his recent actions and utterances. Trump wants peace, not war. He will be allowed to take credit for the peace treaty, just in time for the upcoming elections.
    , @peterAUS
    20?
    I'd say shorter than that.
    Much shorter.

    He and his cabal are being boxed in, and they know it.
    Good.
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  11. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Israel, this important power behind the Capitol Hill, bears a strong animosity against North Korea, for North Korea has been instrumental in providing missile technology to the Axis of Resistance.

    Right. That’s the talking points Apartheid Israel spews out to keep Americans hating anyone that Israel wants destroyed.

    The real reason Israel wants to keep the Korea’s apart is that Kim has come out repeatedly for Palestinian rights, demanding that Israel stop murdering Palestinians in cold-blood and to let them have their stolen lands back.

    That’s why I’m doubtful that this current rapprochement between the two Korea’s gets far without some kind of heinous False Flag being set-off by Israel’s lackeys in our Deep State.

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  12. @Anon
    The Chinese would like to see a more obedient North Korea, but they are used to fierce Korean independence by now. They apparently agreed to Kim’s steps during recent Kim’s meeting with President Xi.

    Chinese are adults or have been since the death of erratic Mao.

    Kim is a spoiled brat. But maybe he's maturing a bit.

    For a time, China washed its hands of NK because Kim executed China's man in NK. Maybe Kim and cronies saw the guy as a shill of China. I dunno. Anyway, it pissed off China big time.
    And then, Kim began to act like a total retard, making threats about shooting nukes at the US. Instead of making a rational case for nukes based on US neo-imperialism before the UN, the moron just acted the gangsta. This was GREAT for warmongers in the US. After all, Lil' Kim was bragging about how he's gonna build missiles that can reach the US. Just what the warmongers wanted to hear.
    Kim could have garnered international sympathy IF he'd used cool and rational rhetoric about why a poor weak nation like NK needs nukes as defense against US as bully. But the kid was raised a spoiled brat and grew up listening to US pop music. So, he moron decided to play gangsta, and it just turned into a bonanza for warmongers in the US. NK's rhetoric was so over-the-top that even anti-American activists around the world didn't want to take sides with NK. How can you have a rational discussion with a moron who can barely feed his people but acts like his nation constitutes the other superpower?

    This made China esp angry. China has been very patient but now Kim was acting like Bam Bam on FLINSTONES. NK's threats served as easy rationale for the US to put in THAAD missiles aimed at China. And then, when Trump threatened war, China got really pissed with NK. The last thing China wants is a war on its border. Also, Trump used NK as issue to apply economic pressure on China. So, China finally decided to join the US in totally squeezing NK. This is why spoiled brat Kim finally wised up. The squeeze was so tight that he had no choice but to negotiate. Also, unlike previous presidents, Trump sounded like a madman... as in Kissinger's 'mad man theory'. So, Kim got really worried. What if crazy Trump really starts war and smashed NK? Why, he will lose all his toys an palaces. So, Kim decided to talk with the US.
    It was then that China figured it better ease tensions with NK too. After all, if NK manages to cut a deal with the US and Japan, then China will be left out and may lose NK as a clientele. So, China decided to be nice and open relations again. This is good for Kim because he has China behind his back. Even if he gives up his nukes, it will be difficult for US to attack NK since China is an ally again. And it's good for China because if Kim behaves, makes peace, and grows up, everyone can do business.

    Some may argue that Kim's nuclear brinkmanship was genius as political theater. By raising the stakes, he forced the US to the table. And because the US and allies are so hellbent on getting rid of NK's nukes, they will be willing to pay big in aid and trade if NK decides to comply.
    But I don't think so. Kim is too stupid to have foresight or meaningful strategy. He talks about buckwheat noodles in SK. NK is an odd nation with ONLY ONE fatty. Whenever you see NK regime, Kim is the only fatty among lean people. It goes to show that even away from home, the ONLY thing on his mind is food.

    I’d agree to a lot of your points, but Kim being fat has very little to do with his love of food.

    When it became clear that his father was too ill to last for long, and he’d have to succeed him while still being young, his father or some advisers proposed him to take on weight, so that he’d look older and more formidable. Don’t look at him through your own eyes, because we with our fitness culture cannot comprehend how a fat guy could look more like a leader than, say, a muscular one, but that’s Korean (and especially North Korean) culture for you.

    So that’s why he got fat using a special diet.

    Read More
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  13. TT says:

    You can compare the two Koreas in different ways. You can say: one is rich, the other one is poor. One is for the market, the other one is communist. One is the country of Samsung, and the other one has nuclear weapons. Alternatively, you can say: one Korean state is independent – North Korea – while the other one is occupied – South Korea. This is a fact, not an opinion.

    NK people will come to a shock of SK empty material life after reunion like East Germany, courtesy of Yankees consumerism. Suicide is No1 cause of SK death.

    Its not impossible for any country to built a Samsung by large national support if US doesn’t block from technology & capital access. But there is simply no true innovation & high tech in SK, beside huge out of proportion investment in DRAM, LCD/OLED & Galaxy phone for national pride & economy effect. What else?

    SK couldn’t even launch a single rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for its ambitious satellite program. It has given up its fantasy of 5th gen fighter jet like Jp, unable to even outline it. Nor can it build a AIP submarine. But NK has already launched satellite long ago on its indigenous rockets, with continental capability & working on SLM sub. And nuclear is only for a few who can afford real top scientists, showing NK superior tech capability. NK has also built its full industrial & supply chain for self sufficiency.

    Btw, not only Isreal, India also refused to sign anything for its nuke control, which Pak followed.

    He has been trapped. “If Trump tries to play hardball with Kim, he risks looking like a warmonger and a bully whose policies are inimical to Korean interests, north and south. Intentionally of otherwise, Moon, a lifelong advocate of detente with personal connections to North Korea, has spiked Trump’s guns.”

    Since when US war mongers care about anything in all ther brutal invasions? Trumps is just a Potus without packaging.

    US want disarm NK nuke, period. Once done, they will renege everything as usual to take advantage, history speak better. Everyone knows.

    Trumps even tried to play his usual childish brinkmanship in statesmen game by hinting of derail the meeting, a sign of blackmail to NK & China trade nego. But he has no match with Kim.

    China want a nuke free Korea Peninsula to deny Jp seeking militarization excuse & nuke. Kick Yankee out from its door steps by denying it all excuses. With NK, Jp & India relationship solved, China can then focus on its grand plan including reunifying Taiwan.

    NK Kim is strangled by China cooperation with US global sanction. He understands NK fragility without China backing, so better grab the best bargain before showing sign of weakness. Without China guaranteed of security, NK has nothing to negotiate, Kim know what’s Gaddafi & Saddam ending, so he seeked Prez Xi support first. China will dictate the terms & strategy.

    SK Moon is another puppet, juz look at how Thaad went in at the 1st day of his president crowning that Prez Park resisted(40yrs jail for that). He will be removed under corruption accusation once he stop taking Yankee order or has his Boeing plane remote control to Indian ocean like MH.

    Jp Abe is left in cold & embarrassing situation, no one care about Jp since Trumps US don’t give Jp a shit. So Abe is trying to seek attention, hopefully for a photo shot meet up with Kim after giving in to Trumps petty trade demand.

    Russia is simply too busy with its own handful of problems, juz let China take the duty with mutual understanding of denuclearization.

    The rest are history. Many horse trading btw Xi & Trumps, part of bargain chip for Trade & Treasury Secretary Mulching trade nego in Beijing now. Once done, Hollywood NK crisis Part2 take 1, camera!

    China, Russia, NK are having their best diplomats & think tanks to work on geopolitical issues. US is head by a conman Trumps & his team of rag tag combination of zero administration experience banker & generals. Its simply a joke. Trumps will whine over the NK deal like iran’s later to demand changes after found been short change.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    ''But there is simply no true innovation & high tech in SK, beside huge out of proportion investment in DRAM, LCD/OLED & Galaxy phone for national pride & economy effect. What else?

    SK couldn’t even launch a single rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for its ambitious satellite program. It has given up its fantasy of 5th gen fighter jet like Jp, unable to even outline it. Nor can it build a AIP submarine. But NK has already launched satellite long ago on its indigenous rockets, with continental capability & working on SLM sub. And nuclear is only for a few who can afford real top scientists, showing NK superior tech capability. NK has also built its full industrial & supply chain for self sufficiency.''

    SK superb consumer electronics and makes super non consumer facing tech also like memory, also appliances, ships, lifts, cars etc. And NK defense technology like you said. So they can achieve a lot more united.

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  14. Not on a bet. Th last executive to get such an award should not have gotten one either. Pres trump gets credit for having an official meeting with Pres Kim. But beyond that, the relationship for reunification between the two Koreans has been going on for years. And the when Pres park left the scene, the hardliner position went with her. There’s a long road ahead before we get one Korea, a long road. And despite the possibilities, the notion of on Korea is very odd and is unnerving because the status quo has been two Korea for so long, it’s hard to consider a world with them — and what that means. But that is sometime away.

    But no president needlessly violating the sovereignty o other states should be lining up for na Nobel award.

    good grief.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Soon the miserable EU puppets will be giving Nobel Peace Prizes to US Presidents for their good farts. Let a big smelly one out and voila - another US champion of peace.
    , @TT
    If Trumps could resist Anglozionist order to maintain his madman theory yet never start a single war throughout his presidential term, he deserved a Nobel Peace prize.

    Nearly every mad Potus went to wars one way or another under TPTB order. Nobel Obama bte Hussein is one of the worst hypocrite war monger, added 2 more wars using terrorists, increasing US debts single handedly from $11T to $20T.
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  15. @reiner Tor
    Kim obviously overplayed his hand.

    Probably he could've stayed in his box until forever, if he didn't try to quickly force through a full ICBM deterrent.

    But those tests created the precondition for the sanctions. After China acquiesced to the sanctions, there was no way out for him.

    Now to be honest I cannot see him in power 20 years from now.

    Uh,

    North Korea has survived sanctions for more than fifty years. Neither sanctions, nor name calling ro threats are new to North Korean leadership. They did not work with his father, and doubtful they played for much in the present.

    If Pres Kim Jung Un does abandon wmd, it will have been because of his relations with S. Korea. In other words, South Korea begins a process of demilitarization, that us at least the assessment of this article.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    North Korea has survived sanctions for more than fifty years.
     
    That's untrue, if you mean "sanctions by all major powers, including China." They could always more or less freely trade with China until last year.

    It must also be noted that their economy grew a lot in recent years due to the liberalization policies of the young Kim, and it also became more open than it had been for decades. It's a well-known fact that the peasants don't rebel when they are starving, but instead when their improved living standards start dropping back to previous levels. So Kim was not in a position to go back to starving his people, or at least probably he didn't feel confident doing so.

    Anyway, it's obvious that the sanctions did enormous harm to him, that the North Korean economy was more vulnerable to sanctions than any time in its previous history, and that China had never previously enforced serious sanctions against them.
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  16. TT says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Demonised.
    It is not true that the north Korean regime is the worst in the world ?
    That the country is so poor that even an official car does not have windshield wipers, as I saw when a foreign tv crew was driven around ?
    What the crew also recorded was that when their minders in the official car saw a deer they were so excited, food, that they tried to shoot it.
    Then there was the empty luxury hotel, just the crew.
    The empty streets were another sign.
    Then there was an undercover video made just outside a N Korean concentration camp, made by a N Korean who had succeeded in fleeing to China, but wanted to show the world the misery in his country.
    We do not need the stories about Kim killing his enemies by literally throwing them before dogs.
    What we know for sure is bad enough.
    With such a regime the USA strikes a deal.
    I do realise that in politics one has to make dirty hands, but if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    Those so keen on pushing the war should pls at least read up abit on the history of Korean war, see NK remarkable social achievements(go google beautiful North Korea pictures, its not what msm has brainwashed you), and who is benefiting in racking up all these war tension. How can one bear to destroy these decent cities and kill all these innocent people? If you still do, you ought to see a psychiatrist immediately.

    Who is the real evil demon? NK or US?

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-versus-the-united-states-who-are-the-demons/28342

    Achievement of NK in healthcare, education…

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-their-health-system-sucks-do-they-have-schools-and-hospitals-in-america-weve-got-medicare/5604293

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-social-and-economic-achievements-of-north-korea/5594234

    [MORE]

    Blame Kim for their poverty, courtesy of axis of evils embargo by 5lies US Nato UK, Canada, Oz.

    Some beautiful photos of NK.

    Mansudae Grand Monument

    Sunset view overlooking
    the Grand People’s Study House

    The city of Pyongyang

    A Farmer and his Child at Chonsam Cooperative Farm

    Koryo Museum Entrance

    Wonsan City

    Pyongyang City

    The city with the unique architecture building, along a straight Highway

    https://www.bradtguides.com/articles/why-visit-north-korea/

    Majon beach

    Read More
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  17. Joe Hide says:

    Good article Israel Shamir,
    Still, please note that 28 years of Bush Senior, Clinton, Bush Junior, and Obama yielded ever worsening potential military confrontations on the Korean Pennisula. Indeed, North Korea has been militarily belligerent over 70 years. Trump is in office about 1 year and much of the media talks about how his administration had nothing to do with North and South Korea now exchanging olive branches?
    I find that all statistically improbable.
    The obvious conclusion is that the real deals were taking place behind the scenes and the public speeches were a distraction tactic to throw off the opposition. The goal was for Korea’s (…and Humanity’s….) journey to peace and the Truth to be unshackled.

    Read More
    • Replies: @renfro

    Trump is in office about 1 year and much of the media talks about how his administration had nothing to do with North and South Korea now exchanging olive branches?
    I find that all statistically improbable.
     
    The only thing Trump had to do with this was N. and S. Korea realized Trump is a crazy puppet of the neos and zios and decided to take the peace initiative on their own before Trump blew something up.
    I am also sure they know all about killer diller Bolton and his WH entry speeded up their olive branch exchange.
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  18. A sad day for Imperial Washington. It seems to have lost an enemy AND a Satrap.

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  19. It turned out that Kim’s will was stronger than the American’s will;

    This is risible. The Threat of Trump doing something even rattled China, and China cut Kim off because of the threat to China’s trade with the US. Kim could have as much as he liked, but when he started to look at following his subjects into hunger, he realized the game was up.

    Alternatively, you can say: one Korean state is independent – North Korea – while the other one is occupied – South Korea. This is a fact, not an opinion.

    This isn’t just an opinion, it is a particularly idiotic opinion that denies the facts on the ground. South Korea wanted us there. Carter, for example, wanted us out, but the Koreans themselves realized that would mean they were on their own if Kim wanted to pay a visit to Pusan again, and they lobbied Congress heavily to keep us there. If they had been stupid enough to ask us to leave, we would have. We aren’t in the habit of staying places we aren’t wanted.

    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.

    This is clownishly risible. The Kim dynasty have been absolute rulers. What they say has been law and the opinions, desires and needs of the NorK people mean nothing beside the grand visions of the Kim dynasty. The south is a democratic country, and there the people have the say, as they show in every election – something which doe not exist in the north.

    There is no doubt that the people of Korea, of the North and the South, want peaceful reunification and the prosperity of their country. But so far the US has prevented it.

    There have been a number of initiatives that have been agreed to by both sides, but the Kims have made it uneconomic to pursue them because they have shut them down at their whim. The result has been that industry in the south has been unable to predict what will happen, and people that are risking capital won’t risk it unless there is a substantial chance of a return on that investment. Several plants in North Korea are sitting unused because of the Kims actions. The US has done nothing to prevent such activities, but the Kims certainly have discouraged them.

    Under these conditions, it makes no sense to insist on the nuclear disarmament of North Korea.

    Sadly, Obama broke the US word on Libya and Hillary bragged about it. Were I a man in a position like Qaddafy, and if I thought there was the slightest chance of another DimoKKKRat, there is no way I’d give my WMD program. Kim, on the other hand, as a great benefactor in China, and if he denuclearizes, he doesn’t have to worry about the US. I’d like to see US troops out of South Korea, as would many South Koreans, but it can’t happen unless Kim gives up his imperial ambitions to unite the country under his dynasty.

    Demonization of North Korea was the first victim of the summit:

    No one had to demonize the Kims. The truth was more than bad enough.

    This column is just another ignorant Shamir screed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The South Koreans do not want the US military there. That is just US propaganda. As Isreal mentioned, the US has a say in all the major S Korean decisions. So they are indeed ocupied.
    , @TT
    Why not do some detox of your US msm sewage by reading up a much better article written by Prof Michel.

    North Korea and the Dangers of Nuclear War. The Demilitarization of the Korean Peninsula. Towards a Peace Agreement.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-and-the-dangers-of-nuclear-war-the-demilitarization-of-the-korean-peninsula-towards-a-peace-agreement/5628390

    By Prof Michel Chossudovsky Global Research, April 27, 2018 Theme: Prof Michel Chossudovsky About the author: Michel Chossudovsky is an award- winning author, Professor of Economics (emeritus) at the University of Ottawa, Founder and Director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), Montreal, Editor of Global Research. He has taught as visiting professor in Western Europe, Southeast Asia, the Pacific and Latin America. He has served as economic adviser to governments of developing countries and has acted as a consultant for several international organizations.

    Washington’s intentions are crystal clear. They consist in sabotaging the peace process.
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  20. @jilles dykstra
    Demonised.
    It is not true that the north Korean regime is the worst in the world ?
    That the country is so poor that even an official car does not have windshield wipers, as I saw when a foreign tv crew was driven around ?
    What the crew also recorded was that when their minders in the official car saw a deer they were so excited, food, that they tried to shoot it.
    Then there was the empty luxury hotel, just the crew.
    The empty streets were another sign.
    Then there was an undercover video made just outside a N Korean concentration camp, made by a N Korean who had succeeded in fleeing to China, but wanted to show the world the misery in his country.
    We do not need the stories about Kim killing his enemies by literally throwing them before dogs.
    What we know for sure is bad enough.
    With such a regime the USA strikes a deal.
    I do realise that in politics one has to make dirty hands, but if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    This may be true but this is a matter for North Koreans or more formally citizens of the DPRK only – not South Korea and absolutely not anyone else.

    I see a glimmer of hope – and for Kim Jong Un, long term survival probably relies on a strictly controlled ‘Deng Xiaoping drive’ to a socialist market economy.

    I am sure the South Koreans don’t mind about unification – the few I have spoken to are not interested claiming the North is a very different country (which after 70 years behind the highest and strongest Iron Curtain may be true)

    The question is are the Americans interested? Trump in his original MAGA creation would probably be but not the Neo-Con military-industrial complex.

    Kim Jong Un needs to put his cards on the table – no nuclear weapons for no US military bases and troops on the Peninsula and China needs to pile on the economic pressure (quietly of course) with South Korea

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Unable to see how the N Koreans can liberate themselves from this horrible regime.
    The USSR fell apart because it was too big, occupation costs, and the Cold War, brought the end.
    No such forces with N Korea, or with Zimbabwe, and, I hope not, in a few years time with S Africa.
    But maybe S Africa has enough resources to make it attractive for the west to 'liberate' it.
    Do not know if there is anything of interest in N Korea.
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  21. @EliteCommInc.
    Uh,


    North Korea has survived sanctions for more than fifty years. Neither sanctions, nor name calling ro threats are new to North Korean leadership. They did not work with his father, and doubtful they played for much in the present.

    If Pres Kim Jung Un does abandon wmd, it will have been because of his relations with S. Korea. In other words, South Korea begins a process of demilitarization, that us at least the assessment of this article.

    North Korea has survived sanctions for more than fifty years.

    That’s untrue, if you mean “sanctions by all major powers, including China.” They could always more or less freely trade with China until last year.

    It must also be noted that their economy grew a lot in recent years due to the liberalization policies of the young Kim, and it also became more open than it had been for decades. It’s a well-known fact that the peasants don’t rebel when they are starving, but instead when their improved living standards start dropping back to previous levels. So Kim was not in a position to go back to starving his people, or at least probably he didn’t feel confident doing so.

    Anyway, it’s obvious that the sanctions did enormous harm to him, that the North Korean economy was more vulnerable to sanctions than any time in its previous history, and that China had never previously enforced serious sanctions against them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Not sure what your point is. Just because they could trade with China does not mean that they had free access to the rest of the world. You think the Chinese were giving market prices to N Korean coal?
    , @EliteCommInc.
    I don't think you get it --- sanctions did not change North Korean policy.

    North Korea has been a closed society since the end of the Korean conflict ---- hardship is part and parcel to their resolve to defy the US in preparation what they have thought would be a US invasion. And only once has the US indicated they were anything but an invasion force waiting for action.

    That was a nuclear deal that we reneged on and set the in stone the present state of affairs.

    Sanctions had little or effect against a state that existed in perpetual war mode with the US.
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  22. Anyone can hear North Korea – in the Human Rights Council, where their delegate has carved out a niche as Master of the Obvious.

    http://www.treatybodywebcast.org/

    The North tells the USG, virtually quoting American hero Robert Jackson, You know, the reason why you’re having all these problems with war crimes and crimes against humanity is war. No war, no war crimes! …And you’re clearly having difficulty prosecuting them, so why don’t you leave that whole can of worms to the international community? That’s what complementarity is for… and while you’re at it, it would be a nice gesture if your troops would quit raping pre-pubescent Okinawan girls.

    The world is gonna be a more amusing place when we get a load of world-class Nork needling.

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  23. bob sykes says:

    Because of their common race, culture, history and language, and the many families with members on both sides of the border, the North/South negotiations are likely to take on a life of their own. Political pressures for reconciliation on both sides of the DMZ might yield results that are both unexpected and that will be resented by the US and all the other powers in the region.

    Two Koreas reconciled and cooperating, even if it is not unified, would be a major regional power. And it is not obvious that the South wants the North to disarm. All the South wants is a voice in where the missiles and nukes are pointed and when to use them. The South once had its own missile and nukes programs, but the US forcibly shut them down. Most South Koreans are proud of what the North has achieved. That achievement, in the face of extreme pressure by the US and its allies, should be a warning as to what the North/South cooperation might produce.

    It should also be remembered that Moon is part of the anti-American wing of Southern politics. He is much more interested in potential relations with the North than in existing relations with the US.

    And then there is Japan. The long, brutal colonization of the Peninsula by Japan, and Japan’s obvious anti-Korean racism makes any alliance that includes both South Korea and Japan an impossibility. The facade on the current fake alliance is about to come off.

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    • Agree: byrresheim
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  24. @Anon
    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.

    The people of the North have a choice in the matter? ROTFL. They have no choice but to agree.

    North is politically independent but systematically remains colonized by Stalinism that was implemented under Soviet occupation. Stalinism + Dynasticism never allowed for the development of true nationalism. The whole nation became a Family Cult not unlike the Moonie the Loony of Unification Church. Soviets are long gone from Korea but its system still plagues that nation.

    South is a puppet of the US, but US political influence was, on the whole, positive until recently. US once supported authoritarianism that was still better than totalitarianism. Also, SK and many such nations back then were not ready for democracy. Even under military government, South Korea had plenty of social and economic freedom like China today. So, even as SK lacked political independence of NK, it was freer and more dynamic.

    Also, until the vast changes in the 90s, US was ruled by white Christian America. Its cultural and moral influence were good on the whole. But since then, US has been Jewish-and-homo-ruled, and its influence has been risible around the world, what with Homomania as the battle cry of New Empire. Ghetto rap is what American freedom is about.
    And Diversity and 'inclusion' which are really tools of imperialism. Prior to Jewish-and-homo takeover, the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations. US back then would never have urged Poland or Hungary to take in tons of Africans and Muslims. If anything, it was telling Eastern European nations to seek national independence from the Soviet Empire. Now, the US message to the world is WELCOME INVASION and SURRENDER IDENTITY.

    Anyway, the case of China and Korea show that national independence isn't enough. Red China was independent, but Mao was terrible. In contrast, US-occupied Taiwan and UK-occupied Hong Kong did much better. Lots of good influence from what became benevolent and enlightened imperialism. Imperialism can't last forever but it can pass good ideas from one place to another.

    But I don't think good ideas can pass from US and UK to other parts of the world anymore. The cultural and ideological landscape of both is pure poison from homomania, to pornification of even Disney, to PC tyranny, to destruction of the past, and vileness all around.
    UK welcomes invasion, so what is its message to other nations? Welcome invasion, worship negroes and homos, and support any war for Israel. How utterly rotten.

    Many presidents of the South have been removed, imprisoned, or killed by the Americans and their agents for their attempts to reconcile with the North.

    Who would they be? Park was killed because he wanted reconciliation with the North? I know there's a theory that says he was killed cuz he wanted nukes, but I don't buy it.
    Since his assassination, no other president has been assassinated in SK. Some were arrested but for corruption.

    Agree with what you wrote about NK and SK. As you know the writer of this piece is an admirer of Staline and the former URSS therefore NK is probably a country he admires.
    It doesn’t matter that NK is a brutal dictatorship because she is “Independent”.

    But you also wrote this: “Also, until the vast changes in the 90s, US was ruled by white Christian America. Its cultural and moral influence were good on the whole. ”

    The USA has never been ruled by “white Christian”.

    Ask Indians and Blacks ,that you, presumably consider as inferior human beings, to what happened to them.

    Genocide and Slavery, can be considered as “Christian”. ?

    Ask to millions of “colored people” killed by the “white Christian” around the world, even before the Jewish “coup d’état” in the USA

    From the beginning, The USA, was always a criminal enterprise.

    This is not incompatible with the fact that those who were lucky to belong to the right race were able to make a good living and buy lots stuff and even become self-made millionaire.

    Because USA has never been ruled by “white Christian”, this explains why the so called “Christians” in the USA and Europe became in XIX century…Jewish, resolving this way ” the Jewish question.”

    There were some exceptions…In the USA, for example, the Quakers were Christians.

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  25. Yee says:

    No point getting excited over this. It’s not like such peace efforts or signed deals with the US hadn’t happened before, repeatedly…

    There wasn’t real risk of war on Korea Peninsula, and this isn’t the real peace in process. The US needs friction in NE Asia to maintain control of Japan and South Korea. Left alone, China, Japan, and both Korea will naturally integrate into an economic region bigger than the US. Same reason the US won’t make peace with Russia for real. Europe is also a competitor of the US.

    IMO, the real reason for this show of peace is that the US is planning something big on the other front, Pakistan – Central Asia – Iran, the US doesn’t want tension on both fronts.

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    • Agree: edNels
    • Replies: @TT
    Yee has a good point. US international agreements are meaned for toilet.

    But Swiss educated Kim wasn't too stupid either, like Iran, he is also seeking some relief from choking sanction China implemented, by kowtow to China denuclearization order. All are playing diplomatic game.

    IMO, the real reason for this show of peace is that the US is planning something big on the other front, Pakistan – Central Asia – Iran, the US doesn’t want tension on both fronts
     
    That's interesting. But China will be always ready to open another war front as pressure point in Taiwan straits & NK whenever US attempted another Syria confrontation with Russia.

    China & Russia won't allowed FUKUS to take ME, Pak-CA-Iran, its their core interest in energy supply & important part of Petrol dollar killing game.

    Its more likely a Trumps bargain chip for coming China trade war nego. Give me this & i will meet Kim to stop tyranny at your door steps. Taiwan exchange is another chip. Blocking ZTE & Huawei access to US technology too. But Chinese leaders are far smarter than conman Trumps team, they have many levers to pull, will see how Chinese play their chess.
    , @peterAUS
    Agree, up to a point.

    Kim push for nuclear tipped weapon reaching Hawaii could've, or still could, push USA into preemptive strike. From then, who knows.
    , @utu

    IMO, the real reason for this show of peace is that the US is planning something big on the other front, Pakistan – Central Asia – Iran, the US doesn’t want tension on both fronts.
     
    I think you are right. Trump's only reelection promise that he is going to keep is still outstanding and this is Iran. Russia has been intimidated and further humiliated with Israel (yesterday) and US attack (today) on targets in Syria and now the big hoopla is going to begin with alleged documents from Iran that Netanyahu rolled out.
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  26. Kiza says:

    However, if the US withdraws its troops and agrees to denuclearisation of the peninsula, and if this withdrawal will be “complete, verifiable and irreversible …
    Korea, divided in 1945, and never reunited, unlike Vietnam and Germany.

    Let us stop dreaming. The only way for the Big Satan, the puppet of the Little Satan, to disengage from Korea would be the same scenario as in Vietnam – thousands of body bags coming home. This is because we have a tendency to blame only Israhell for what is clearly a simbiotic relationship. In other words, there is a very good reason why US is such a good host for the terrible Zionist parasite – because US is the most violent nation of the mentally most primitive humans on the planet.

    Also, the South Koreans are too deeply enslaved and too comfortable to be willing to take a risk of a liberating insurgency.

    Finally, a developing loss in Syria will force the parasite and its host to be even less accommodating then they would have been otherwise, which would have been very close to zero anyway (the Jewish motto – “take everything and then plus plus”).

    The only thing that could help, in absence of a good South Korean insurgency, is the fall of US$ from the international grace and the subsequent implosion and the second civil war inside US.

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  27. Mike P says:
    @reiner Tor
    Kim obviously overplayed his hand.

    Probably he could've stayed in his box until forever, if he didn't try to quickly force through a full ICBM deterrent.

    But those tests created the precondition for the sanctions. After China acquiesced to the sanctions, there was no way out for him.

    Now to be honest I cannot see him in power 20 years from now.

    Probably he could’ve stayed in his box until forever, if he didn’t try to quickly force through a full ICBM deterrent.

    You mean just like Qaddafi and Saddam were allowed to? Oh I get it, when you say “box,” you really mean “coffin.”

    Considering the recent aggressions of the U.S. in the Middle East – including the use, apparently, of a neutron bomb at Baghdad in 2003 – and the honour of being short-listed as a member of the “Axis of Evil” it is clear NK had to do something to protect itself .

    NK has had the ability to wipe out Seoul for a long time. However, given NK’s own experience with US warfare – according to the U.S. themselves, about 1/5 of NK’s population were killed in the Korean War – he could not assume that this deterrent would be sufficient; he had to demonstrate that he can do more serious damage to U.S. interests than that. And he had to do it fast and forcefully, driving his point home before the U.S. warmongers could get organised and start another “preventive” war.

    You may be right that China’s sanctions forced him to change his tactics. However, for the moment, NK has established itself as a de-facto nuclear power, and Kim is not going to give up that advantage for nothing. At the same time, he has forced the U.S. to cede the lead management of the entire crisis to China; this benefits both China and NK.

    “Denuclearization of the entire Korean peninsula” will pretty much require withdrawal of the U.S. forces from SK, and he likely has China’s backing in making this demand. Moon seems to be on board with this idea, and it would be very surprising if he did not have Trump’s approval for his recent actions and utterances. Trump wants peace, not war. He will be allowed to take credit for the peace treaty, just in time for the upcoming elections.

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  28. Kiza says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    Not on a bet. Th last executive to get such an award should not have gotten one either. Pres trump gets credit for having an official meeting with Pres Kim. But beyond that, the relationship for reunification between the two Koreans has been going on for years. And the when Pres park left the scene, the hardliner position went with her. There's a long road ahead before we get one Korea, a long road. And despite the possibilities, the notion of on Korea is very odd and is unnerving because the status quo has been two Korea for so long, it's hard to consider a world with them -- and what that means. But that is sometime away.

    But no president needlessly violating the sovereignty o other states should be lining up for na Nobel award.

    good grief.

    Soon the miserable EU puppets will be giving Nobel Peace Prizes to US Presidents for their good farts. Let a big smelly one out and voila – another US champion of peace.

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  29. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Demonised.
    It is not true that the north Korean regime is the worst in the world ?
    That the country is so poor that even an official car does not have windshield wipers, as I saw when a foreign tv crew was driven around ?
    What the crew also recorded was that when their minders in the official car saw a deer they were so excited, food, that they tried to shoot it.
    Then there was the empty luxury hotel, just the crew.
    The empty streets were another sign.
    Then there was an undercover video made just outside a N Korean concentration camp, made by a N Korean who had succeeded in fleeing to China, but wanted to show the world the misery in his country.
    We do not need the stories about Kim killing his enemies by literally throwing them before dogs.
    What we know for sure is bad enough.
    With such a regime the USA strikes a deal.
    I do realise that in politics one has to make dirty hands, but if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    Who cares about windshield wipers. Their country was sanctioned into the ground. Let’s see how well your country could handle such harsh global conditions.

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  30. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @TT

    You can compare the two Koreas in different ways. You can say: one is rich, the other one is poor. One is for the market, the other one is communist. One is the country of Samsung, and the other one has nuclear weapons. Alternatively, you can say: one Korean state is independent – North Korea – while the other one is occupied – South Korea. This is a fact, not an opinion.
     
    NK people will come to a shock of SK empty material life after reunion like East Germany, courtesy of Yankees consumerism. Suicide is No1 cause of SK death.

    Its not impossible for any country to built a Samsung by large national support if US doesn't block from technology & capital access. But there is simply no true innovation & high tech in SK, beside huge out of proportion investment in DRAM, LCD/OLED & Galaxy phone for national pride & economy effect. What else?

    SK couldn't even launch a single rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for its ambitious satellite program. It has given up its fantasy of 5th gen fighter jet like Jp, unable to even outline it. Nor can it build a AIP submarine. But NK has already launched satellite long ago on its indigenous rockets, with continental capability & working on SLM sub. And nuclear is only for a few who can afford real top scientists, showing NK superior tech capability. NK has also built its full industrial & supply chain for self sufficiency.

    Btw, not only Isreal, India also refused to sign anything for its nuke control, which Pak followed.

    He has been trapped. “If Trump tries to play hardball with Kim, he risks looking like a warmonger and a bully whose policies are inimical to Korean interests, north and south. Intentionally of otherwise, Moon, a lifelong advocate of detente with personal connections to North Korea, has spiked Trump’s guns.”
     
    Since when US war mongers care about anything in all ther brutal invasions? Trumps is just a Potus without packaging.

    US want disarm NK nuke, period. Once done, they will renege everything as usual to take advantage, history speak better. Everyone knows.

    Trumps even tried to play his usual childish brinkmanship in statesmen game by hinting of derail the meeting, a sign of blackmail to NK & China trade nego. But he has no match with Kim.

    China want a nuke free Korea Peninsula to deny Jp seeking militarization excuse & nuke. Kick Yankee out from its door steps by denying it all excuses. With NK, Jp & India relationship solved, China can then focus on its grand plan including reunifying Taiwan.

    NK Kim is strangled by China cooperation with US global sanction. He understands NK fragility without China backing, so better grab the best bargain before showing sign of weakness. Without China guaranteed of security, NK has nothing to negotiate, Kim know what's Gaddafi & Saddam ending, so he seeked Prez Xi support first. China will dictate the terms & strategy.

    SK Moon is another puppet, juz look at how Thaad went in at the 1st day of his president crowning that Prez Park resisted(40yrs jail for that). He will be removed under corruption accusation once he stop taking Yankee order or has his Boeing plane remote control to Indian ocean like MH.

    Jp Abe is left in cold & embarrassing situation, no one care about Jp since Trumps US don't give Jp a shit. So Abe is trying to seek attention, hopefully for a photo shot meet up with Kim after giving in to Trumps petty trade demand.

    Russia is simply too busy with its own handful of problems, juz let China take the duty with mutual understanding of denuclearization.

    The rest are history. Many horse trading btw Xi & Trumps, part of bargain chip for Trade & Treasury Secretary Mulching trade nego in Beijing now. Once done, Hollywood NK crisis Part2 take 1, camera!

    China, Russia, NK are having their best diplomats & think tanks to work on geopolitical issues. US is head by a conman Trumps & his team of rag tag combination of zero administration experience banker & generals. Its simply a joke. Trumps will whine over the NK deal like iran's later to demand changes after found been short change.

    ”But there is simply no true innovation & high tech in SK, beside huge out of proportion investment in DRAM, LCD/OLED & Galaxy phone for national pride & economy effect. What else?

    SK couldn’t even launch a single rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for its ambitious satellite program. It has given up its fantasy of 5th gen fighter jet like Jp, unable to even outline it. Nor can it build a AIP submarine. But NK has already launched satellite long ago on its indigenous rockets, with continental capability & working on SLM sub. And nuclear is only for a few who can afford real top scientists, showing NK superior tech capability. NK has also built its full industrial & supply chain for self sufficiency.”

    SK superb consumer electronics and makes super non consumer facing tech also like memory, also appliances, ships, lifts, cars etc. And NK defense technology like you said. So they can achieve a lot more united.

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    • Replies: @TT
    A united Korea is projected to be Top10 most powerful country by think tank, with 80M people & Top10 GDP.

    NK has the scientists & cheap labour with natural resources, SK has the capital, market economy, access to global market, consumer technology & soft power image not tarnished by FUKUS. They will be a strong regional force that ex-colonist Jp fear to see.

    Both US & Jp won't want a peaceful Korea Peninsula.
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  31. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Quartermaster

    It turned out that Kim’s will was stronger than the American’s will;
     
    This is risible. The Threat of Trump doing something even rattled China, and China cut Kim off because of the threat to China's trade with the US. Kim could have as much as he liked, but when he started to look at following his subjects into hunger, he realized the game was up.

    Alternatively, you can say: one Korean state is independent – North Korea – while the other one is occupied – South Korea. This is a fact, not an opinion.
     
    This isn't just an opinion, it is a particularly idiotic opinion that denies the facts on the ground. South Korea wanted us there. Carter, for example, wanted us out, but the Koreans themselves realized that would mean they were on their own if Kim wanted to pay a visit to Pusan again, and they lobbied Congress heavily to keep us there. If they had been stupid enough to ask us to leave, we would have. We aren't in the habit of staying places we aren't wanted.

    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.
     
    This is clownishly risible. The Kim dynasty have been absolute rulers. What they say has been law and the opinions, desires and needs of the NorK people mean nothing beside the grand visions of the Kim dynasty. The south is a democratic country, and there the people have the say, as they show in every election - something which doe not exist in the north.

    There is no doubt that the people of Korea, of the North and the South, want peaceful reunification and the prosperity of their country. But so far the US has prevented it.
     
    There have been a number of initiatives that have been agreed to by both sides, but the Kims have made it uneconomic to pursue them because they have shut them down at their whim. The result has been that industry in the south has been unable to predict what will happen, and people that are risking capital won't risk it unless there is a substantial chance of a return on that investment. Several plants in North Korea are sitting unused because of the Kims actions. The US has done nothing to prevent such activities, but the Kims certainly have discouraged them.

    Under these conditions, it makes no sense to insist on the nuclear disarmament of North Korea.
     
    Sadly, Obama broke the US word on Libya and Hillary bragged about it. Were I a man in a position like Qaddafy, and if I thought there was the slightest chance of another DimoKKKRat, there is no way I'd give my WMD program. Kim, on the other hand, as a great benefactor in China, and if he denuclearizes, he doesn't have to worry about the US. I'd like to see US troops out of South Korea, as would many South Koreans, but it can't happen unless Kim gives up his imperial ambitions to unite the country under his dynasty.

    Demonization of North Korea was the first victim of the summit:
     
    No one had to demonize the Kims. The truth was more than bad enough.

    This column is just another ignorant Shamir screed.

    The South Koreans do not want the US military there. That is just US propaganda. As Isreal mentioned, the US has a say in all the major S Korean decisions. So they are indeed ocupied.

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  32. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor

    North Korea has survived sanctions for more than fifty years.
     
    That's untrue, if you mean "sanctions by all major powers, including China." They could always more or less freely trade with China until last year.

    It must also be noted that their economy grew a lot in recent years due to the liberalization policies of the young Kim, and it also became more open than it had been for decades. It's a well-known fact that the peasants don't rebel when they are starving, but instead when their improved living standards start dropping back to previous levels. So Kim was not in a position to go back to starving his people, or at least probably he didn't feel confident doing so.

    Anyway, it's obvious that the sanctions did enormous harm to him, that the North Korean economy was more vulnerable to sanctions than any time in its previous history, and that China had never previously enforced serious sanctions against them.

    Not sure what your point is. Just because they could trade with China does not mean that they had free access to the rest of the world. You think the Chinese were giving market prices to N Korean coal?

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    • Replies: @myself

    You think the Chinese were giving market prices to N Korean coal?
     
    MORE than market prices. Not maybe the coal per se, but everything else they got from China was basically for free, or at very deep discount. China was essentially keeping North Korea functional and semi-livable. They were sending industrial machinery, electrical generators, construction equipment, fuel (petroleum and gas), a lot of food, and consumer goods to the Nork elite. Not much of a burden for China, but a lifeline for North Korea.

    Is life in North Korea bad now? YES, life there sucks.

    But without China, they would have gone to "full-bore Sub-Saharan African levels" of misery.

    , @reiner Tor
    I don't know, but even receiving sub-market prices (and being able to import stuff) is better than receiving nothing and thus being unable to import anything.

    As one commenter already pointed out, it's actually possible that they were subsidized by China. (Though I think that was less the case in recent years than previously, but I could be wrong.)
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  33. @reiner Tor

    North Korea has survived sanctions for more than fifty years.
     
    That's untrue, if you mean "sanctions by all major powers, including China." They could always more or less freely trade with China until last year.

    It must also be noted that their economy grew a lot in recent years due to the liberalization policies of the young Kim, and it also became more open than it had been for decades. It's a well-known fact that the peasants don't rebel when they are starving, but instead when their improved living standards start dropping back to previous levels. So Kim was not in a position to go back to starving his people, or at least probably he didn't feel confident doing so.

    Anyway, it's obvious that the sanctions did enormous harm to him, that the North Korean economy was more vulnerable to sanctions than any time in its previous history, and that China had never previously enforced serious sanctions against them.

    I don’t think you get it — sanctions did not change North Korean policy.

    North Korea has been a closed society since the end of the Korean conflict —- hardship is part and parcel to their resolve to defy the US in preparation what they have thought would be a US invasion. And only once has the US indicated they were anything but an invasion force waiting for action.

    That was a nuclear deal that we reneged on and set the in stone the present state of affairs.

    Sanctions had little or effect against a state that existed in perpetual war mode with the US.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    sanctions did not change North Korean policy
     
    Non sequitur.

    The previous sanctions were relatively mild. The current sanctions (which are enforced by China) are much tougher.

    So only because the milder sanctions didn't change Nork policy, it doesn't mean the extremely tough sanctions had no effect either.
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  34. @jilles dykstra
    Demonised.
    It is not true that the north Korean regime is the worst in the world ?
    That the country is so poor that even an official car does not have windshield wipers, as I saw when a foreign tv crew was driven around ?
    What the crew also recorded was that when their minders in the official car saw a deer they were so excited, food, that they tried to shoot it.
    Then there was the empty luxury hotel, just the crew.
    The empty streets were another sign.
    Then there was an undercover video made just outside a N Korean concentration camp, made by a N Korean who had succeeded in fleeing to China, but wanted to show the world the misery in his country.
    We do not need the stories about Kim killing his enemies by literally throwing them before dogs.
    What we know for sure is bad enough.
    With such a regime the USA strikes a deal.
    I do realise that in politics one has to make dirty hands, but if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    “With such a regime the USA strikes a deal. ”

    I’m glad you aren’t in charge. You didn’t read the article, obviously, because you have demonstrated that you do possess good reading comprehension by commenting on articles you link to in your comments.

    If you had read it you would know that no deal has been made between the US and NK.

    Read this one:

    https://tomluongo.me/2018/04/27/peace-breaks-out-in-korea-lil-rocket-man-turns-statesman/

    It has a nuance a little different from Shamir’s article and might get through to you simply by virtue of having been written by someone you don’t dismiss without reading. I hope so, anyway. For all I know you hate Tom Luongo, too.

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  35. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Biff

    the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations.
     
    Tell that to the Vietnamese, Iranians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Haitians, Philippinos, etc.....

    Tell that to the Vietnamese, Iranians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Haitians, Philippinos, etc…

    US got involved in Vietnam, Iran, and Guatemala for ideological or economic issues. US was interested in controlling the politics of those nations, not changing the entire makeup of the nation.

    In contrast, the US wants to change the entire makeup of not only the US but other nations. US elites tell Poland and Hungary and Japan to abolish themselves and worship Homomania. When the US promotes Diversity, it is encouraging Invasive Demographic Imperialism on all nations(but Israel).

    As for Cuba and Philippines, US ‘inherited’ them from the Spanish Empire. Cuba was never an independent nation but created of an empire. Philippines was also won from the Spanish. But the US did let Philippines go. If Philippines has remained close to the US, it’s because the people there are idiots who depend on others to get any thing done.
    And US never did anything decisive against Castro. Bay of Pigs fizzled. If anything, the embargo only pressured Cuba to develop more independently from the US sphere.

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    • Replies: @myself

    If Philippines has remained close to the US, it’s because the people there are idiots who depend on others to get any thing done
     
    The level of Western- and especially America-worship exhibited by the people there (Philippines) was and is absolutely astounding.

    Although, props to them for asking the U.S. to leave after the "leases" on those bases expired, back in the '90s. South East Asians don't want our military on their soil, who knew? So there is that.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    No.

    Including Vietnam in this list requires ignoring reality. If the S. Vietnamese had wanted to reunite with North Vietnam, there would have been no way for the US to prevent it.

    In fact the peace agreement made that abundantly clear. The war in Vietnam at every turn in every way was not a betrayal by the US or the S. Vietnamese, but the North Vietnam.

    The long and deep misinformation about the Vietnam is enough espousing these notions should be labeled having a psychological dysfunction.

    , @RadicalCenter
    I don’t think you know enough Filipinos or enough about the Philippines. They suffer from excessive population growth and corruption, like much of the world, but there is ample intelligence, resilience, industriousness, and decency to be found among Pinoys in the Phils and abroad.
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  36. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    The shirtless guy..

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  37. TT says:
    @Quartermaster

    It turned out that Kim’s will was stronger than the American’s will;
     
    This is risible. The Threat of Trump doing something even rattled China, and China cut Kim off because of the threat to China's trade with the US. Kim could have as much as he liked, but when he started to look at following his subjects into hunger, he realized the game was up.

    Alternatively, you can say: one Korean state is independent – North Korea – while the other one is occupied – South Korea. This is a fact, not an opinion.
     
    This isn't just an opinion, it is a particularly idiotic opinion that denies the facts on the ground. South Korea wanted us there. Carter, for example, wanted us out, but the Koreans themselves realized that would mean they were on their own if Kim wanted to pay a visit to Pusan again, and they lobbied Congress heavily to keep us there. If they had been stupid enough to ask us to leave, we would have. We aren't in the habit of staying places we aren't wanted.

    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.
     
    This is clownishly risible. The Kim dynasty have been absolute rulers. What they say has been law and the opinions, desires and needs of the NorK people mean nothing beside the grand visions of the Kim dynasty. The south is a democratic country, and there the people have the say, as they show in every election - something which doe not exist in the north.

    There is no doubt that the people of Korea, of the North and the South, want peaceful reunification and the prosperity of their country. But so far the US has prevented it.
     
    There have been a number of initiatives that have been agreed to by both sides, but the Kims have made it uneconomic to pursue them because they have shut them down at their whim. The result has been that industry in the south has been unable to predict what will happen, and people that are risking capital won't risk it unless there is a substantial chance of a return on that investment. Several plants in North Korea are sitting unused because of the Kims actions. The US has done nothing to prevent such activities, but the Kims certainly have discouraged them.

    Under these conditions, it makes no sense to insist on the nuclear disarmament of North Korea.
     
    Sadly, Obama broke the US word on Libya and Hillary bragged about it. Were I a man in a position like Qaddafy, and if I thought there was the slightest chance of another DimoKKKRat, there is no way I'd give my WMD program. Kim, on the other hand, as a great benefactor in China, and if he denuclearizes, he doesn't have to worry about the US. I'd like to see US troops out of South Korea, as would many South Koreans, but it can't happen unless Kim gives up his imperial ambitions to unite the country under his dynasty.

    Demonization of North Korea was the first victim of the summit:
     
    No one had to demonize the Kims. The truth was more than bad enough.

    This column is just another ignorant Shamir screed.

    Why not do some detox of your US msm sewage by reading up a much better article written by Prof Michel.

    North Korea and the Dangers of Nuclear War. The Demilitarization of the Korean Peninsula. Towards a Peace Agreement.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-and-the-dangers-of-nuclear-war-the-demilitarization-of-the-korean-peninsula-towards-a-peace-agreement/5628390

    By Prof Michel Chossudovsky Global Research, April 27, 2018 Theme: Prof Michel Chossudovsky About the author: Michel Chossudovsky is an award- winning author, Professor of Economics (emeritus) at the University of Ottawa, Founder and Director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), Montreal, Editor of Global Research. He has taught as visiting professor in Western Europe, Southeast Asia, the Pacific and Latin America. He has served as economic adviser to governments of developing countries and has acted as a consultant for several international organizations.

    Washington’s intentions are crystal clear. They consist in sabotaging the peace process.

    Read More
    • Replies: @myself

    Washington’s intentions are crystal clear. They consist in sabotaging the peace process.
     
    Not only Washington, but also that of London and Paris, and even of Tokyo. Basically, all the nations with interventionist, "expeditionary" tendencies.

    Without the clear and unwavering consent of South Korea, there can be no credible threat to either North-East China or Russia's Far East.

    A non-belligerent North Korea removes that crucial South Korean consent. The days of staging assassinations, people's power/color revolutions and coups d'etat in poor, backward South Korea are long, long past.

    A non-aggressive North Korea is bad, and an eventually unified Korea is EVEN WORSE - because it would infinitely magnify the problems for US/UK/France to get at China/Russia from the Pacific side.

    A unified Korea will have absolutely none of that, for obvious reasons.
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  38. bjondo says:

    Not that the thing is worth any thing
    but the Nobel Prize for Peace for Donald Trump.
    The President is bringing a Golden Age.
    Hang in there.

    And the committee
    can wash itself partially clean after, Peres, Rabin, Kissenger, and Obama.

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  39. myself says:
    @Anonymous
    Not sure what your point is. Just because they could trade with China does not mean that they had free access to the rest of the world. You think the Chinese were giving market prices to N Korean coal?

    You think the Chinese were giving market prices to N Korean coal?

    MORE than market prices. Not maybe the coal per se, but everything else they got from China was basically for free, or at very deep discount. China was essentially keeping North Korea functional and semi-livable. They were sending industrial machinery, electrical generators, construction equipment, fuel (petroleum and gas), a lot of food, and consumer goods to the Nork elite. Not much of a burden for China, but a lifeline for North Korea.

    Is life in North Korea bad now? YES, life there sucks.

    But without China, they would have gone to “full-bore Sub-Saharan African levels” of misery.

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  40. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Macron and Korea

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  41. TT says:
    @Anonymous
    ''But there is simply no true innovation & high tech in SK, beside huge out of proportion investment in DRAM, LCD/OLED & Galaxy phone for national pride & economy effect. What else?

    SK couldn’t even launch a single rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for its ambitious satellite program. It has given up its fantasy of 5th gen fighter jet like Jp, unable to even outline it. Nor can it build a AIP submarine. But NK has already launched satellite long ago on its indigenous rockets, with continental capability & working on SLM sub. And nuclear is only for a few who can afford real top scientists, showing NK superior tech capability. NK has also built its full industrial & supply chain for self sufficiency.''

    SK superb consumer electronics and makes super non consumer facing tech also like memory, also appliances, ships, lifts, cars etc. And NK defense technology like you said. So they can achieve a lot more united.

    A united Korea is projected to be Top10 most powerful country by think tank, with 80M people & Top10 GDP.

    NK has the scientists & cheap labour with natural resources, SK has the capital, market economy, access to global market, consumer technology & soft power image not tarnished by FUKUS. They will be a strong regional force that ex-colonist Jp fear to see.

    Both US & Jp won’t want a peaceful Korea Peninsula.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mike P
    There is no need to fear a united Korea - it will pose no threat to anyone, no more than united Vietnam and united Germany did. The main focus of their foreign policy will be to retain some degree of independence from China; this purpose would not be served by antagonising Japan or anyone else.

    What we are are seeing here is truly remarkable - a peaceful hand-over from the outgoing superpower to the ascendant one. Let's hope that the two will be able to make some face-saving deals on Afghanistan and Iran also, and that Trump survives long enough for these to come to fruition.
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  42. myself says:
    @Anon
    Tell that to the Vietnamese, Iranians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Haitians, Philippinos, etc…

    US got involved in Vietnam, Iran, and Guatemala for ideological or economic issues. US was interested in controlling the politics of those nations, not changing the entire makeup of the nation.

    In contrast, the US wants to change the entire makeup of not only the US but other nations. US elites tell Poland and Hungary and Japan to abolish themselves and worship Homomania. When the US promotes Diversity, it is encouraging Invasive Demographic Imperialism on all nations(but Israel).

    As for Cuba and Philippines, US 'inherited' them from the Spanish Empire. Cuba was never an independent nation but created of an empire. Philippines was also won from the Spanish. But the US did let Philippines go. If Philippines has remained close to the US, it's because the people there are idiots who depend on others to get any thing done.
    And US never did anything decisive against Castro. Bay of Pigs fizzled. If anything, the embargo only pressured Cuba to develop more independently from the US sphere.

    If Philippines has remained close to the US, it’s because the people there are idiots who depend on others to get any thing done

    The level of Western- and especially America-worship exhibited by the people there (Philippines) was and is absolutely astounding.

    Although, props to them for asking the U.S. to leave after the “leases” on those bases expired, back in the ’90s. South East Asians don’t want our military on their soil, who knew? So there is that.

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  43. TT says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    Not on a bet. Th last executive to get such an award should not have gotten one either. Pres trump gets credit for having an official meeting with Pres Kim. But beyond that, the relationship for reunification between the two Koreans has been going on for years. And the when Pres park left the scene, the hardliner position went with her. There's a long road ahead before we get one Korea, a long road. And despite the possibilities, the notion of on Korea is very odd and is unnerving because the status quo has been two Korea for so long, it's hard to consider a world with them -- and what that means. But that is sometime away.

    But no president needlessly violating the sovereignty o other states should be lining up for na Nobel award.

    good grief.

    If Trumps could resist Anglozionist order to maintain his madman theory yet never start a single war throughout his presidential term, he deserved a Nobel Peace prize.

    Nearly every mad Potus went to wars one way or another under TPTB order. Nobel Obama bte Hussein is one of the worst hypocrite war monger, added 2 more wars using terrorists, increasing US debts single handedly from $11T to $20T.

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    • Agree: Mike P
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  44. renfro says:
    @Joe Hide
    Good article Israel Shamir,
    Still, please note that 28 years of Bush Senior, Clinton, Bush Junior, and Obama yielded ever worsening potential military confrontations on the Korean Pennisula. Indeed, North Korea has been militarily belligerent over 70 years. Trump is in office about 1 year and much of the media talks about how his administration had nothing to do with North and South Korea now exchanging olive branches?
    I find that all statistically improbable.
    The obvious conclusion is that the real deals were taking place behind the scenes and the public speeches were a distraction tactic to throw off the opposition. The goal was for Korea's (...and Humanity's....) journey to peace and the Truth to be unshackled.

    Trump is in office about 1 year and much of the media talks about how his administration had nothing to do with North and South Korea now exchanging olive branches?
    I find that all statistically improbable.

    The only thing Trump had to do with this was N. and S. Korea realized Trump is a crazy puppet of the neos and zios and decided to take the peace initiative on their own before Trump blew something up.
    I am also sure they know all about killer diller Bolton and his WH entry speeded up their olive branch exchange.

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  45. myself says:
    @TT
    Why not do some detox of your US msm sewage by reading up a much better article written by Prof Michel.

    North Korea and the Dangers of Nuclear War. The Demilitarization of the Korean Peninsula. Towards a Peace Agreement.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-and-the-dangers-of-nuclear-war-the-demilitarization-of-the-korean-peninsula-towards-a-peace-agreement/5628390

    By Prof Michel Chossudovsky Global Research, April 27, 2018 Theme: Prof Michel Chossudovsky About the author: Michel Chossudovsky is an award- winning author, Professor of Economics (emeritus) at the University of Ottawa, Founder and Director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), Montreal, Editor of Global Research. He has taught as visiting professor in Western Europe, Southeast Asia, the Pacific and Latin America. He has served as economic adviser to governments of developing countries and has acted as a consultant for several international organizations.

    Washington’s intentions are crystal clear. They consist in sabotaging the peace process.

    Washington’s intentions are crystal clear. They consist in sabotaging the peace process.

    Not only Washington, but also that of London and Paris, and even of Tokyo. Basically, all the nations with interventionist, “expeditionary” tendencies.

    Without the clear and unwavering consent of South Korea, there can be no credible threat to either North-East China or Russia’s Far East.

    A non-belligerent North Korea removes that crucial South Korean consent. The days of staging assassinations, people’s power/color revolutions and coups d’etat in poor, backward South Korea are long, long past.

    A non-aggressive North Korea is bad, and an eventually unified Korea is EVEN WORSE – because it would infinitely magnify the problems for US/UK/France to get at China/Russia from the Pacific side.

    A unified Korea will have absolutely none of that, for obvious reasons.

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  46. TT says:
    @Yee
    No point getting excited over this. It's not like such peace efforts or signed deals with the US hadn't happened before, repeatedly...

    There wasn't real risk of war on Korea Peninsula, and this isn't the real peace in process. The US needs friction in NE Asia to maintain control of Japan and South Korea. Left alone, China, Japan, and both Korea will naturally integrate into an economic region bigger than the US. Same reason the US won't make peace with Russia for real. Europe is also a competitor of the US.

    IMO, the real reason for this show of peace is that the US is planning something big on the other front, Pakistan - Central Asia - Iran, the US doesn't want tension on both fronts.

    Yee has a good point. US international agreements are meaned for toilet.

    But Swiss educated Kim wasn’t too stupid either, like Iran, he is also seeking some relief from choking sanction China implemented, by kowtow to China denuclearization order. All are playing diplomatic game.

    IMO, the real reason for this show of peace is that the US is planning something big on the other front, Pakistan – Central Asia – Iran, the US doesn’t want tension on both fronts

    That’s interesting. But China will be always ready to open another war front as pressure point in Taiwan straits & NK whenever US attempted another Syria confrontation with Russia.

    China & Russia won’t allowed FUKUS to take ME, Pak-CA-Iran, its their core interest in energy supply & important part of Petrol dollar killing game.

    Its more likely a Trumps bargain chip for coming China trade war nego. Give me this & i will meet Kim to stop tyranny at your door steps. Taiwan exchange is another chip. Blocking ZTE & Huawei access to US technology too. But Chinese leaders are far smarter than conman Trumps team, they have many levers to pull, will see how Chinese play their chess.

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  47. Mike P says:
    @TT
    A united Korea is projected to be Top10 most powerful country by think tank, with 80M people & Top10 GDP.

    NK has the scientists & cheap labour with natural resources, SK has the capital, market economy, access to global market, consumer technology & soft power image not tarnished by FUKUS. They will be a strong regional force that ex-colonist Jp fear to see.

    Both US & Jp won't want a peaceful Korea Peninsula.

    There is no need to fear a united Korea – it will pose no threat to anyone, no more than united Vietnam and united Germany did. The main focus of their foreign policy will be to retain some degree of independence from China; this purpose would not be served by antagonising Japan or anyone else.

    What we are are seeing here is truly remarkable – a peaceful hand-over from the outgoing superpower to the ascendant one. Let’s hope that the two will be able to make some face-saving deals on Afghanistan and Iran also, and that Trump survives long enough for these to come to fruition.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TT
    Only those war mongering countries have fear for a strong Korea, ie Jp & FUKUS.

    A peaceful United Korea will be a medium country, as strong as France, that's about all. Nothing of a threat to China & Russia or Asia. But its industrial power will threaten declining Jp.

    What we are are seeing here is truly remarkable – a peaceful hand-over from the outgoing superpower to the ascendant one. Let’s hope that the two will be able to make some face-saving deals on Afghanistan and Iran also, and that Trump survives long enough for these to come to fruition.
     
    US will never hand over anything in peace, never, not before China collapse it thoroughly by uprooting Dollar.

    After Petrol Yuan launched, this mth Commodity Yuan will be launched. China version of Swift has also rolled out for global yuan based transaction usage. Baao declaration of expedited opening up of China market will suck in all investments and turbo boost China GDP & Yuan usage.

    This will force US to risk using military as last resort, like the final struggle of a trapped animal. But Russia & China alliance will survive.

    If Trump ever resist TPTB order, JFK is his ending, impeachment will be his lucky escape.
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  48. peterAUS says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Demonised.
    It is not true that the north Korean regime is the worst in the world ?
    That the country is so poor that even an official car does not have windshield wipers, as I saw when a foreign tv crew was driven around ?
    What the crew also recorded was that when their minders in the official car saw a deer they were so excited, food, that they tried to shoot it.
    Then there was the empty luxury hotel, just the crew.
    The empty streets were another sign.
    Then there was an undercover video made just outside a N Korean concentration camp, made by a N Korean who had succeeded in fleeing to China, but wanted to show the world the misery in his country.
    We do not need the stories about Kim killing his enemies by literally throwing them before dogs.
    What we know for sure is bad enough.
    With such a regime the USA strikes a deal.
    I do realise that in politics one has to make dirty hands, but if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    ….if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    Agree.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mike P

    ….if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.
     
    And what is more likely to achieve this goal - peaceful engagement, or continued military standoff?
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  49. peterAUS says:
    @reiner Tor
    Kim obviously overplayed his hand.

    Probably he could've stayed in his box until forever, if he didn't try to quickly force through a full ICBM deterrent.

    But those tests created the precondition for the sanctions. After China acquiesced to the sanctions, there was no way out for him.

    Now to be honest I cannot see him in power 20 years from now.

    20?
    I’d say shorter than that.
    Much shorter.

    He and his cabal are being boxed in, and they know it.
    Good.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    I’d say shorter than that.
    Much shorter.
     
    Well, yes, it's even possible he'll be in exile (or prison, or dead) in 2 years.
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  50. @Malaysian Truther
    This may be true but this is a matter for North Koreans or more formally citizens of the DPRK only - not South Korea and absolutely not anyone else.

    I see a glimmer of hope - and for Kim Jong Un, long term survival probably relies on a strictly controlled 'Deng Xiaoping drive' to a socialist market economy.

    I am sure the South Koreans don't mind about unification - the few I have spoken to are not interested claiming the North is a very different country (which after 70 years behind the highest and strongest Iron Curtain may be true)

    The question is are the Americans interested? Trump in his original MAGA creation would probably be but not the Neo-Con military-industrial complex.

    Kim Jong Un needs to put his cards on the table - no nuclear weapons for no US military bases and troops on the Peninsula and China needs to pile on the economic pressure (quietly of course) with South Korea

    Unable to see how the N Koreans can liberate themselves from this horrible regime.
    The USSR fell apart because it was too big, occupation costs, and the Cold War, brought the end.
    No such forces with N Korea, or with Zimbabwe, and, I hope not, in a few years time with S Africa.
    But maybe S Africa has enough resources to make it attractive for the west to ‘liberate’ it.
    Do not know if there is anything of interest in N Korea.

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  51. peterAUS says:
    @Yee
    No point getting excited over this. It's not like such peace efforts or signed deals with the US hadn't happened before, repeatedly...

    There wasn't real risk of war on Korea Peninsula, and this isn't the real peace in process. The US needs friction in NE Asia to maintain control of Japan and South Korea. Left alone, China, Japan, and both Korea will naturally integrate into an economic region bigger than the US. Same reason the US won't make peace with Russia for real. Europe is also a competitor of the US.

    IMO, the real reason for this show of peace is that the US is planning something big on the other front, Pakistan - Central Asia - Iran, the US doesn't want tension on both fronts.

    Agree, up to a point.

    Kim push for nuclear tipped weapon reaching Hawaii could’ve, or still could, push USA into preemptive strike. From then, who knows.

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  52. Mark Presco says: • Website

    I have never put much stock in the author’s position that the US has prevented reunification. This is another example of victimology excuse making. I put the onus on the Koreans themselves. They both could have and should have done it themselves by now.

    The biggest obstacle was the Kims and their supporters who simply wanted to retain their privileged life style, and a population who wouldn’t fight for their own freedoms. The south Koreans, simply taking the easy path.

    I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but I hope there is real progress. But to reiterate, it is the responsibility of the Koreans themselves to pick up the ball and run with it if they really want to achieve anything at all.

    However, let take a different tack. Maybe they shouldn’t fully reunify. In the coming balkanization of the USA, I want to live in a white nation. It will be built on the individualistic pillars established in the Constitution. The white nationalist collectivists must have their own nation, these communists will not be welcome in mine.

    So maybe the Koreans should build on what they already have. The south more capitalist and individualist, and the north collectivist, with people free to seek the culture which best suits their nature. However, they should keep their ethnic identify and work more closely together.

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    • Replies: @myself

    However, let take a different tack. Maybe they shouldn’t fully reunify. In the coming balkanization of the USA, I want to live in a white nation. It will be built on the individualistic pillars established in the Constitution. The white nationalist collectivists must have their own nation, these communists will not be welcome in mine.
     
    I, for one, fail to see what some Asians do in their lands has anything to do with what Whites do in theirs.

    Let the Koreans unify - it should mean nothing at all to Whites.
    , @TT

    In the coming balkanization of the USA, I want to live in a white nation.
     
    Kamma is always fair, what's go out come back eventually. So which state you have chosen for your white nation? Alaska?

    Im afraid you might have to move to East Europe or Russia for that last few batons of wasp.
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  53. Moi says:
    @Anonymous
    Great article Isreal. You touched on all the important things.

    America, and Trump, will be exposed by Korea and Kim. Either Trump is sincere in wanting peace or he is not.

    Sincerity is not a word that comes to mind when I think of Trump. There can be no reconciliation until the US pulls out from the peninsula completely-that’s something we don’t do.

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  54. Mike P says:
    @peterAUS

    ....if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.
     
    Agree.

    ….if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    And what is more likely to achieve this goal – peaceful engagement, or continued military standoff?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    I'll assume, for a second, that you are asking that in good faith.
    Not working your own "online therapy" session with a healthy dose of "virtue signalling.
    For a second.....

    That goal will be achieved using the same method we've seen in action so far:
    A combination of military standoff, sanctions and, the most important, which tipped Kim's cabal ...ahm..."good will" into this show for public: a real threat of US preemptive strike.

    I am amused by the reaction to this show. I mean, trusting those regimes and politicians is just funny.
    Hope a? A desperate need to see something good.

    I'll buy that something is happening when really see something happening on the ground there.
    And that something is something of real substance regarding Kim's nuclear weapons.
    Not holding my breath.

    I think this...ahm...earth shattering event will be forgotten in a month, tops and we'll get back to the usual.
    Until Chinese get rid of the cabal in North.
    Or Washington loses patience and simply wipes them out.
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  55. bjondo says:

    US main reason for Korean separation – til now.

    With Trump their is a paradigm earthquake. Notice how the establishment has been reacting.

    Can’t think the same as before.

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    • Replies: @bjondo
    there
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  56. peterAUS says:
    @Mike P

    ….if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.
     
    And what is more likely to achieve this goal - peaceful engagement, or continued military standoff?

    I’ll assume, for a second, that you are asking that in good faith.
    Not working your own “online therapy” session with a healthy dose of “virtue signalling.
    For a second…..

    That goal will be achieved using the same method we’ve seen in action so far:
    A combination of military standoff, sanctions and, the most important, which tipped Kim’s cabal …ahm…”good will” into this show for public: a real threat of US preemptive strike.

    I am amused by the reaction to this show. I mean, trusting those regimes and politicians is just funny.
    Hope a? A desperate need to see something good.

    I’ll buy that something is happening when really see something happening on the ground there.
    And that something is something of real substance regarding Kim’s nuclear weapons.
    Not holding my breath.

    I think this…ahm…earth shattering event will be forgotten in a month, tops and we’ll get back to the usual.
    Until Chinese get rid of the cabal in North.
    Or Washington loses patience and simply wipes them out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @myself

    Or Washington loses patience and simply wipes them out.
     
    Wiping them out - an interesting idea. Now, HOW to actually er, "wipe them out" as you put it?

    Airpower? Seapower? Useful things to be sure.
    I wonder though, can anyone point to any continental (non-island) nation that was forced to surrender with no land armies being used in the mix? (Note: Only 2 island nations of consequence as of now - Britain and Japan).

    I am indeed an amateur, but I cannot point to a single instance in . . . all of human history. Honest question: Since I cannot, maybe you can? If so, always willing to listen, for my part.

    I will believe things when I see them.

    "A nation wiped out purely from the air and the sea" - I will believe THAT when it actually happens.
    Until then, the notion of "wiping out North Korea" is American bluff - an EXTREMELY transparent bluff.
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  57. @Anon
    Tell that to the Vietnamese, Iranians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Haitians, Philippinos, etc…

    US got involved in Vietnam, Iran, and Guatemala for ideological or economic issues. US was interested in controlling the politics of those nations, not changing the entire makeup of the nation.

    In contrast, the US wants to change the entire makeup of not only the US but other nations. US elites tell Poland and Hungary and Japan to abolish themselves and worship Homomania. When the US promotes Diversity, it is encouraging Invasive Demographic Imperialism on all nations(but Israel).

    As for Cuba and Philippines, US 'inherited' them from the Spanish Empire. Cuba was never an independent nation but created of an empire. Philippines was also won from the Spanish. But the US did let Philippines go. If Philippines has remained close to the US, it's because the people there are idiots who depend on others to get any thing done.
    And US never did anything decisive against Castro. Bay of Pigs fizzled. If anything, the embargo only pressured Cuba to develop more independently from the US sphere.

    No.

    Including Vietnam in this list requires ignoring reality. If the S. Vietnamese had wanted to reunite with North Vietnam, there would have been no way for the US to prevent it.

    In fact the peace agreement made that abundantly clear. The war in Vietnam at every turn in every way was not a betrayal by the US or the S. Vietnamese, but the North Vietnam.

    The long and deep misinformation about the Vietnam is enough espousing these notions should be labeled having a psychological dysfunction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    You are right. The North Vietnamese specifically violated the 1954 Geneva Accords, their ultimate goal was to unify with the South as one nation under communist rule. The US thought it had to save the world from communism so we involved ourselves in a senseless war. Now we actively trade with China and Vietnam as if nothing ever happened. And does anyone talk at all about the threat of communism from Russia?
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  58. utu says:
    @Yee
    No point getting excited over this. It's not like such peace efforts or signed deals with the US hadn't happened before, repeatedly...

    There wasn't real risk of war on Korea Peninsula, and this isn't the real peace in process. The US needs friction in NE Asia to maintain control of Japan and South Korea. Left alone, China, Japan, and both Korea will naturally integrate into an economic region bigger than the US. Same reason the US won't make peace with Russia for real. Europe is also a competitor of the US.

    IMO, the real reason for this show of peace is that the US is planning something big on the other front, Pakistan - Central Asia - Iran, the US doesn't want tension on both fronts.

    IMO, the real reason for this show of peace is that the US is planning something big on the other front, Pakistan – Central Asia – Iran, the US doesn’t want tension on both fronts.

    I think you are right. Trump’s only reelection promise that he is going to keep is still outstanding and this is Iran. Russia has been intimidated and further humiliated with Israel (yesterday) and US attack (today) on targets in Syria and now the big hoopla is going to begin with alleged documents from Iran that Netanyahu rolled out.

    Read More
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  59. myself says:
    @Mark Presco
    I have never put much stock in the author’s position that the US has prevented reunification. This is another example of victimology excuse making. I put the onus on the Koreans themselves. They both could have and should have done it themselves by now.

    The biggest obstacle was the Kims and their supporters who simply wanted to retain their privileged life style, and a population who wouldn’t fight for their own freedoms. The south Koreans, simply taking the easy path.

    I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but I hope there is real progress. But to reiterate, it is the responsibility of the Koreans themselves to pick up the ball and run with it if they really want to achieve anything at all.

    However, let take a different tack. Maybe they shouldn’t fully reunify. In the coming balkanization of the USA, I want to live in a white nation. It will be built on the individualistic pillars established in the Constitution. The white nationalist collectivists must have their own nation, these communists will not be welcome in mine.

    So maybe the Koreans should build on what they already have. The south more capitalist and individualist, and the north collectivist, with people free to seek the culture which best suits their nature. However, they should keep their ethnic identify and work more closely together.

    However, let take a different tack. Maybe they shouldn’t fully reunify. In the coming balkanization of the USA, I want to live in a white nation. It will be built on the individualistic pillars established in the Constitution. The white nationalist collectivists must have their own nation, these communists will not be welcome in mine.

    I, for one, fail to see what some Asians do in their lands has anything to do with what Whites do in theirs.

    Let the Koreans unify – it should mean nothing at all to Whites.

    Read More
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  60. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.

    The people of the North have a choice in the matter? ROTFL. They have no choice but to agree.

    North is politically independent but systematically remains colonized by Stalinism that was implemented under Soviet occupation. Stalinism + Dynasticism never allowed for the development of true nationalism. The whole nation became a Family Cult not unlike the Moonie the Loony of Unification Church. Soviets are long gone from Korea but its system still plagues that nation.

    South is a puppet of the US, but US political influence was, on the whole, positive until recently. US once supported authoritarianism that was still better than totalitarianism. Also, SK and many such nations back then were not ready for democracy. Even under military government, South Korea had plenty of social and economic freedom like China today. So, even as SK lacked political independence of NK, it was freer and more dynamic.

    Also, until the vast changes in the 90s, US was ruled by white Christian America. Its cultural and moral influence were good on the whole. But since then, US has been Jewish-and-homo-ruled, and its influence has been risible around the world, what with Homomania as the battle cry of New Empire. Ghetto rap is what American freedom is about.
    And Diversity and 'inclusion' which are really tools of imperialism. Prior to Jewish-and-homo takeover, the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations. US back then would never have urged Poland or Hungary to take in tons of Africans and Muslims. If anything, it was telling Eastern European nations to seek national independence from the Soviet Empire. Now, the US message to the world is WELCOME INVASION and SURRENDER IDENTITY.

    Anyway, the case of China and Korea show that national independence isn't enough. Red China was independent, but Mao was terrible. In contrast, US-occupied Taiwan and UK-occupied Hong Kong did much better. Lots of good influence from what became benevolent and enlightened imperialism. Imperialism can't last forever but it can pass good ideas from one place to another.

    But I don't think good ideas can pass from US and UK to other parts of the world anymore. The cultural and ideological landscape of both is pure poison from homomania, to pornification of even Disney, to PC tyranny, to destruction of the past, and vileness all around.
    UK welcomes invasion, so what is its message to other nations? Welcome invasion, worship negroes and homos, and support any war for Israel. How utterly rotten.

    Many presidents of the South have been removed, imprisoned, or killed by the Americans and their agents for their attempts to reconcile with the North.

    Who would they be? Park was killed because he wanted reconciliation with the North? I know there's a theory that says he was killed cuz he wanted nukes, but I don't buy it.
    Since his assassination, no other president has been assassinated in SK. Some were arrested but for corruption.

    “the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations”

    WTF!!!!

    “South is a puppet of the US, but US political influence was, on the whole, positive until recently.”

    WTF!!!

    You are wrong. I hope it is not intentional like the workings of minds of the lying American leaders and paid media shill .

    Read More
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  61. myself says:
    @peterAUS
    I'll assume, for a second, that you are asking that in good faith.
    Not working your own "online therapy" session with a healthy dose of "virtue signalling.
    For a second.....

    That goal will be achieved using the same method we've seen in action so far:
    A combination of military standoff, sanctions and, the most important, which tipped Kim's cabal ...ahm..."good will" into this show for public: a real threat of US preemptive strike.

    I am amused by the reaction to this show. I mean, trusting those regimes and politicians is just funny.
    Hope a? A desperate need to see something good.

    I'll buy that something is happening when really see something happening on the ground there.
    And that something is something of real substance regarding Kim's nuclear weapons.
    Not holding my breath.

    I think this...ahm...earth shattering event will be forgotten in a month, tops and we'll get back to the usual.
    Until Chinese get rid of the cabal in North.
    Or Washington loses patience and simply wipes them out.

    Or Washington loses patience and simply wipes them out.

    Wiping them out – an interesting idea. Now, HOW to actually er, “wipe them out” as you put it?

    Airpower? Seapower? Useful things to be sure.
    I wonder though, can anyone point to any continental (non-island) nation that was forced to surrender with no land armies being used in the mix? (Note: Only 2 island nations of consequence as of now – Britain and Japan).

    I am indeed an amateur, but I cannot point to a single instance in . . . all of human history. Honest question: Since I cannot, maybe you can? If so, always willing to listen, for my part.

    I will believe things when I see them.

    “A nation wiped out purely from the air and the sea” – I will believe THAT when it actually happens.
    Until then, the notion of “wiping out North Korea” is American bluff – an EXTREMELY transparent bluff.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Wiping them out – an interesting idea. Now, HOW to actually er, “wipe them out” as you put it?
     
    with

    “A nation wiped out purely from the air and the sea” – I will believe THAT when it actually happens
     
    Is it my English or you have a reading problem? Comprehension problem even?
    Yes, we both know, that's not it. It's "chattering class" thing.

    So, for the benefit of some other people reading this, perhaps, here I'll reply, briefly.

    Wipe out the Kim cabal.
    Air strike preferably and the most likely.

    Would that be just a single strike on them or a part of prolonged campaign, including a limited land incursion nobody knows. Such things tend to have their own logic.

    You appear to be sending a message you are keen to learn. Doubt it, but, for a sake of conversation you could go through my post history on this site re that issue and read that. Not only my posts, of curse, but all those conversations. There were a couple of guys there with a valuable insight.
    I give that, reading I mean, around 1 % probability. "Chattering classes" don't do that. They already know everything and just love to lecture. Moral lectures in particular.
    Feels good.
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  62. peterAUS says:
    @myself

    Or Washington loses patience and simply wipes them out.
     
    Wiping them out - an interesting idea. Now, HOW to actually er, "wipe them out" as you put it?

    Airpower? Seapower? Useful things to be sure.
    I wonder though, can anyone point to any continental (non-island) nation that was forced to surrender with no land armies being used in the mix? (Note: Only 2 island nations of consequence as of now - Britain and Japan).

    I am indeed an amateur, but I cannot point to a single instance in . . . all of human history. Honest question: Since I cannot, maybe you can? If so, always willing to listen, for my part.

    I will believe things when I see them.

    "A nation wiped out purely from the air and the sea" - I will believe THAT when it actually happens.
    Until then, the notion of "wiping out North Korea" is American bluff - an EXTREMELY transparent bluff.

    Wiping them out – an interesting idea. Now, HOW to actually er, “wipe them out” as you put it?

    with

    “A nation wiped out purely from the air and the sea” – I will believe THAT when it actually happens

    Is it my English or you have a reading problem? Comprehension problem even?
    Yes, we both know, that’s not it. It’s “chattering class” thing.

    So, for the benefit of some other people reading this, perhaps, here I’ll reply, briefly.

    Wipe out the Kim cabal.
    Air strike preferably and the most likely.

    Would that be just a single strike on them or a part of prolonged campaign, including a limited land incursion nobody knows. Such things tend to have their own logic.

    You appear to be sending a message you are keen to learn. Doubt it, but, for a sake of conversation you could go through my post history on this site re that issue and read that. Not only my posts, of curse, but all those conversations. There were a couple of guys there with a valuable insight.
    I give that, reading I mean, around 1 % probability. “Chattering classes” don’t do that. They already know everything and just love to lecture. Moral lectures in particular.
    Feels good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    It is also interesting to see what the Aussie will do when they find the number of curse missles landed on Canberra corresponding to the number of crusie missiles landed on Pyongyang.
    , @myself
    Ah, well now that you've narrowed it down to the Kim Cabal, then I stand corrected. Perhaps my reading comprehension WAS a bit (very?) off. Point readily conceded.

    I suppose it IS possible, very possible, to wipe out a government (purely) from the air, and certainly with a "limited" ground incursion.

    What I am wondering about is this:

    Let's suppose, for the sake of discussion, it were so practicable, then why not wipe out the Bashar al Assad regime in Damascus FIRST, as a sort of "proof of concept"? For example, it seems that that would be well within the capabilities of both American and Israeli precision strike methods. (Although quite HOW, and to WHAT DEGREE, those strikes would impact the Syrian nation-state per se, may be a complicated issue - and could have unforeseen consequences).

    Bashar al Assad, "the butcher, the animal" (the demonized Assad surely deserves it?) - after all, we are already very engaged in Syria, openly supporting the Syrian rebels, whose stated goal remains explicitly Assad's overthrow. Why not demonstrate our capability in an active war theater, in the process immensely aiding our proxies, our allies, and ourselves?

    That is, unless one already believes that our potential foes (North Korea, say) quake in their boots at the merest suggestion of "American airpower". In which case, real-world proof becomes unnecessary - at least not in Washington's keen strategic mind.

    As a minor aside, you seem fond of referring to "chattering classes" - I am sure I have no idea what that phrase means, please explain. Or maybe point me to an approximate meaning (a link maybe?)

    Any help, much appreciated.
    , @myself
    Well, I for one do enjoy your earlier stuff peterAUS, when you talk about the gritty details of combat at the tactical level. You've got almost 1,600 comments on the site, doubt I'd ever get through all of them. Will try to read the interesting ones - the ones on the dynamics of the battlefield mostly. May not help me with strategic insight, but the tactical stuff's mostly good.
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  63. @EliteCommInc.
    No.

    Including Vietnam in this list requires ignoring reality. If the S. Vietnamese had wanted to reunite with North Vietnam, there would have been no way for the US to prevent it.

    In fact the peace agreement made that abundantly clear. The war in Vietnam at every turn in every way was not a betrayal by the US or the S. Vietnamese, but the North Vietnam.

    The long and deep misinformation about the Vietnam is enough espousing these notions should be labeled having a psychological dysfunction.

    You are right. The North Vietnamese specifically violated the 1954 Geneva Accords, their ultimate goal was to unify with the South as one nation under communist rule. The US thought it had to save the world from communism so we involved ourselves in a senseless war. Now we actively trade with China and Vietnam as if nothing ever happened. And does anyone talk at all about the threat of communism from Russia?

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Let's be clear. The US sought to defend the country of S Vietnam in their choice to chart their own destiny. And the press against communism was not a US goal alone. Western Europe, Asia, and even states on the African and S. American continent chose to oppose communism.

    North Vietnam along with North Korea, China and Russia -- with whom also trade aided the North Vietnamese. The North Vietnamese with their support violated every peace accord since and prior to 1954 and were the reasons for war on every occasion.

    Not only am I right, my position reveals the entire bankruptcy of logic, reason, mind and truth about the Vietnam conflict that has been ceaselessly pounded into the US psyche. The evidence:

    US war protesters telling the US government to give peace a chance when in fact it was the US and S. Vietnam and her allies who were defending peace in the region and the North Vietnamese and her allies who violated peace at every turn. The US lost near 50,000 service personnel in that effort, the south Vietnamese lost a million or more. and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them ----

    Truth spun on it's proverbial rhetorical head

    And when the North began a second war after the US left applauded by China and the Russia and North Korea, and North Vietnamese communists began their campaign of murderous purging ravaging the country of any intellectual, and economic capital -- the :give peace a chance" crowd was deafeningly silent.


    Preventing that slaughter, a staple of communist cleaning the slate policies, -- was not senseless.

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  64. Joe Wong says:
    @peterAUS

    Wiping them out – an interesting idea. Now, HOW to actually er, “wipe them out” as you put it?
     
    with

    “A nation wiped out purely from the air and the sea” – I will believe THAT when it actually happens
     
    Is it my English or you have a reading problem? Comprehension problem even?
    Yes, we both know, that's not it. It's "chattering class" thing.

    So, for the benefit of some other people reading this, perhaps, here I'll reply, briefly.

    Wipe out the Kim cabal.
    Air strike preferably and the most likely.

    Would that be just a single strike on them or a part of prolonged campaign, including a limited land incursion nobody knows. Such things tend to have their own logic.

    You appear to be sending a message you are keen to learn. Doubt it, but, for a sake of conversation you could go through my post history on this site re that issue and read that. Not only my posts, of curse, but all those conversations. There were a couple of guys there with a valuable insight.
    I give that, reading I mean, around 1 % probability. "Chattering classes" don't do that. They already know everything and just love to lecture. Moral lectures in particular.
    Feels good.

    It is also interesting to see what the Aussie will do when they find the number of curse missles landed on Canberra corresponding to the number of crusie missiles landed on Pyongyang.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    True.
    Or a meteorite. Or a comet. Asteroid?
    Somebody must've even written a book about it.

    In meantime, if that is the only concern Aussies, let alone Americans (because nobody asks Aussies anything about this matter), are supposed to be worried about, Mr. Fatso cabal's future ain't looking good.

    It's funnily obvious that people around, in their frustration, want to find anything which could offset what's most likely (save some miracle) going to happen.
    This ....chat..... between those two characters and their entourage isn't it.

    The Fatso got scared.
    He could buy some time before he's taken down if he plays very well.
    Not much time, though.

    The tragicomedy of all this is that people fed with The Empire see the Fatso and his cabal as good guys.
    Bizarre.

    Just shows how deep in a shit we all are. Lower 80 % I mean.
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  65. @Simply Simon
    You are right. The North Vietnamese specifically violated the 1954 Geneva Accords, their ultimate goal was to unify with the South as one nation under communist rule. The US thought it had to save the world from communism so we involved ourselves in a senseless war. Now we actively trade with China and Vietnam as if nothing ever happened. And does anyone talk at all about the threat of communism from Russia?

    Let’s be clear. The US sought to defend the country of S Vietnam in their choice to chart their own destiny. And the press against communism was not a US goal alone. Western Europe, Asia, and even states on the African and S. American continent chose to oppose communism.

    North Vietnam along with North Korea, China and Russia — with whom also trade aided the North Vietnamese. The North Vietnamese with their support violated every peace accord since and prior to 1954 and were the reasons for war on every occasion.

    Not only am I right, my position reveals the entire bankruptcy of logic, reason, mind and truth about the Vietnam conflict that has been ceaselessly pounded into the US psyche. The evidence:

    US war protesters telling the US government to give peace a chance when in fact it was the US and S. Vietnam and her allies who were defending peace in the region and the North Vietnamese and her allies who violated peace at every turn. The US lost near 50,000 service personnel in that effort, the south Vietnamese lost a million or more. and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them —-

    Truth spun on it’s proverbial rhetorical head

    And when the North began a second war after the US left applauded by China and the Russia and North Korea, and North Vietnamese communists began their campaign of murderous purging ravaging the country of any intellectual, and economic capital — the :give peace a chance” crowd was deafeningly silent.

    Preventing that slaughter, a staple of communist cleaning the slate policies, — was not senseless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @myself

    and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them —-
     
    No, that wasn't a win for them.

    The United States quitting as a result of North Vietnam "quitting" (pretending to quit) - there's your clear win for the North.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    correction: The US lost near 60,000 service personnel in that effort, the south Vietnamese lost a million or more. and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them —-
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  66. peterAUS says:
    @Joe Wong
    It is also interesting to see what the Aussie will do when they find the number of curse missles landed on Canberra corresponding to the number of crusie missiles landed on Pyongyang.

    True.
    Or a meteorite. Or a comet. Asteroid?
    Somebody must’ve even written a book about it.

    In meantime, if that is the only concern Aussies, let alone Americans (because nobody asks Aussies anything about this matter), are supposed to be worried about, Mr. Fatso cabal’s future ain’t looking good.

    It’s funnily obvious that people around, in their frustration, want to find anything which could offset what’s most likely (save some miracle) going to happen.
    This ….chat….. between those two characters and their entourage isn’t it.

    The Fatso got scared.
    He could buy some time before he’s taken down if he plays very well.
    Not much time, though.

    The tragicomedy of all this is that people fed with The Empire see the Fatso and his cabal as good guys.
    Bizarre.

    Just shows how deep in a shit we all are. Lower 80 % I mean.

    Read More
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  67. Frankie P says:
    @jim jones
    Trump supporters chant "Nobel":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhXKFfJ7UhI

    After Obama was awarded the Nobel for… nothing, are you surprised that Americans think it should be handed out like candy on Halloween night?

    Frankie P

    Read More
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  68. myself says:
    @peterAUS

    Wiping them out – an interesting idea. Now, HOW to actually er, “wipe them out” as you put it?
     
    with

    “A nation wiped out purely from the air and the sea” – I will believe THAT when it actually happens
     
    Is it my English or you have a reading problem? Comprehension problem even?
    Yes, we both know, that's not it. It's "chattering class" thing.

    So, for the benefit of some other people reading this, perhaps, here I'll reply, briefly.

    Wipe out the Kim cabal.
    Air strike preferably and the most likely.

    Would that be just a single strike on them or a part of prolonged campaign, including a limited land incursion nobody knows. Such things tend to have their own logic.

    You appear to be sending a message you are keen to learn. Doubt it, but, for a sake of conversation you could go through my post history on this site re that issue and read that. Not only my posts, of curse, but all those conversations. There were a couple of guys there with a valuable insight.
    I give that, reading I mean, around 1 % probability. "Chattering classes" don't do that. They already know everything and just love to lecture. Moral lectures in particular.
    Feels good.

    Ah, well now that you’ve narrowed it down to the Kim Cabal, then I stand corrected. Perhaps my reading comprehension WAS a bit (very?) off. Point readily conceded.

    I suppose it IS possible, very possible, to wipe out a government (purely) from the air, and certainly with a “limited” ground incursion.

    What I am wondering about is this:

    Let’s suppose, for the sake of discussion, it were so practicable, then why not wipe out the Bashar al Assad regime in Damascus FIRST, as a sort of “proof of concept”? For example, it seems that that would be well within the capabilities of both American and Israeli precision strike methods. (Although quite HOW, and to WHAT DEGREE, those strikes would impact the Syrian nation-state per se, may be a complicated issue – and could have unforeseen consequences).

    Bashar al Assad, “the butcher, the animal” (the demonized Assad surely deserves it?) – after all, we are already very engaged in Syria, openly supporting the Syrian rebels, whose stated goal remains explicitly Assad’s overthrow. Why not demonstrate our capability in an active war theater, in the process immensely aiding our proxies, our allies, and ourselves?

    That is, unless one already believes that our potential foes (North Korea, say) quake in their boots at the merest suggestion of “American airpower”. In which case, real-world proof becomes unnecessary – at least not in Washington’s keen strategic mind.

    As a minor aside, you seem fond of referring to “chattering classes” – I am sure I have no idea what that phrase means, please explain. Or maybe point me to an approximate meaning (a link maybe?)

    Any help, much appreciated.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    As a minor aside, you seem fond of referring to “chattering classes” – I am sure I have no idea what that phrase means, please explain. Or maybe point me to an approximate meaning (a link maybe?)
     
    Yes you do. Intimately.
    2 seconds Googling:
    The chattering classes is a generally derogatory term first coined by Auberon Waugh often used by pundits and political commentators to refer to a politically active, socially concerned and highly educated section of the "metropolitan middle class", especially those with political, media, and academic connections.

    As for the rest, because it's concise and (not yet) with name callings and such:

    Let’s suppose, for the sake of discussion, it were so practicable, then why not wipe out the Bashar al Assad regime in Damascus FIRST, as a sort of “proof of concept”?
     
    Because Russians are behind Assad. They are not behind the Fatso. Actually, nobody is. I don't believe Chinese are. In fact, should the push come to shove I believe Chinese will support the strike.

    That is, unless one already believes that our potential foes (North Korea, say) quake in their boots at the merest suggestion of “American airpower”. In which case, real-world proof becomes unnecessary – at least not in Washington’s keen strategic mind.
     
    I'll rephrase
    That is, unless one already believes that some of our potential foes (North Korea, say) are very concerned about the possibility that they'll get at the receiving end of the US military might.
    Any sane person would.
    That is, unless one really believes that US military might is on decline/weakening/incompetent/etc.
    Plenty of those around.

    You have, maybe, noticed the pattern there, though.
    A lot of noise about US military might being not a might at all. Plenty of players ready to challenge that, even win.
    Until US does something.......................
    And then plenty of noise why those players didn't challenge, that time, that might. But, of course, they will the next time.
    And the next time...and the next time.

    I wrote here plenty of times before: if U.S. Administration believes that the Fatso is about to have a nuclear tipped missile capable of reaching Hawaii, it will strike. Estimates were between 2 and 10 years. Nobody knows.

    Looks to me that the Fatso is retreating that "nuking US mainland".
    Not that I believe him much, but, could be wrong.
    We'll see what happens on the ground there. That's all what matters.
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  69. myself says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    Let's be clear. The US sought to defend the country of S Vietnam in their choice to chart their own destiny. And the press against communism was not a US goal alone. Western Europe, Asia, and even states on the African and S. American continent chose to oppose communism.

    North Vietnam along with North Korea, China and Russia -- with whom also trade aided the North Vietnamese. The North Vietnamese with their support violated every peace accord since and prior to 1954 and were the reasons for war on every occasion.

    Not only am I right, my position reveals the entire bankruptcy of logic, reason, mind and truth about the Vietnam conflict that has been ceaselessly pounded into the US psyche. The evidence:

    US war protesters telling the US government to give peace a chance when in fact it was the US and S. Vietnam and her allies who were defending peace in the region and the North Vietnamese and her allies who violated peace at every turn. The US lost near 50,000 service personnel in that effort, the south Vietnamese lost a million or more. and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them ----

    Truth spun on it's proverbial rhetorical head

    And when the North began a second war after the US left applauded by China and the Russia and North Korea, and North Vietnamese communists began their campaign of murderous purging ravaging the country of any intellectual, and economic capital -- the :give peace a chance" crowd was deafeningly silent.


    Preventing that slaughter, a staple of communist cleaning the slate policies, -- was not senseless.

    and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them —-

    No, that wasn’t a win for them.

    The United States quitting as a result of North Vietnam “quitting” (pretending to quit) – there’s your clear win for the North.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    What a silly notion. Had it not been for the treaty agreement. I might agree.


    But all of this after the fact, it was only a pretense ignores the events. If quit the ring and then come back afterwords a fight an opponent who isn't in the ring --


    You lose twice. Ignoring the fact that the US was no longer in Vietnam is why so much silly putty passes for serious policy making.

    No weapons of WMD -- yes there is --- ok, prove it. See these card board drawings --

    Scratching my head. I see the card board drawings. What i don't see is evidence of wmd in Iraq. But millions of high IQ, highly schooled, connected members of the dominant superior culture made war anyway. And they remain in power, well connected -- millions of them even claim to be Christians.


    Come back when you have something besides -- well they just pretended . . . I prefer to stay out of 1984 interrogation rooms.
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  70. peterAUS says:
    @myself
    Ah, well now that you've narrowed it down to the Kim Cabal, then I stand corrected. Perhaps my reading comprehension WAS a bit (very?) off. Point readily conceded.

    I suppose it IS possible, very possible, to wipe out a government (purely) from the air, and certainly with a "limited" ground incursion.

    What I am wondering about is this:

    Let's suppose, for the sake of discussion, it were so practicable, then why not wipe out the Bashar al Assad regime in Damascus FIRST, as a sort of "proof of concept"? For example, it seems that that would be well within the capabilities of both American and Israeli precision strike methods. (Although quite HOW, and to WHAT DEGREE, those strikes would impact the Syrian nation-state per se, may be a complicated issue - and could have unforeseen consequences).

    Bashar al Assad, "the butcher, the animal" (the demonized Assad surely deserves it?) - after all, we are already very engaged in Syria, openly supporting the Syrian rebels, whose stated goal remains explicitly Assad's overthrow. Why not demonstrate our capability in an active war theater, in the process immensely aiding our proxies, our allies, and ourselves?

    That is, unless one already believes that our potential foes (North Korea, say) quake in their boots at the merest suggestion of "American airpower". In which case, real-world proof becomes unnecessary - at least not in Washington's keen strategic mind.

    As a minor aside, you seem fond of referring to "chattering classes" - I am sure I have no idea what that phrase means, please explain. Or maybe point me to an approximate meaning (a link maybe?)

    Any help, much appreciated.

    As a minor aside, you seem fond of referring to “chattering classes” – I am sure I have no idea what that phrase means, please explain. Or maybe point me to an approximate meaning (a link maybe?)

    Yes you do. Intimately.
    2 seconds Googling:
    The chattering classes is a generally derogatory term first coined by Auberon Waugh often used by pundits and political commentators to refer to a politically active, socially concerned and highly educated section of the “metropolitan middle class”, especially those with political, media, and academic connections.

    As for the rest, because it’s concise and (not yet) with name callings and such:

    Let’s suppose, for the sake of discussion, it were so practicable, then why not wipe out the Bashar al Assad regime in Damascus FIRST, as a sort of “proof of concept”?

    Because Russians are behind Assad. They are not behind the Fatso. Actually, nobody is. I don’t believe Chinese are. In fact, should the push come to shove I believe Chinese will support the strike.

    That is, unless one already believes that our potential foes (North Korea, say) quake in their boots at the merest suggestion of “American airpower”. In which case, real-world proof becomes unnecessary – at least not in Washington’s keen strategic mind.

    I’ll rephrase
    That is, unless one already believes that some of our potential foes (North Korea, say) are very concerned about the possibility that they’ll get at the receiving end of the US military might.
    Any sane person would.
    That is, unless one really believes that US military might is on decline/weakening/incompetent/etc.
    Plenty of those around.

    You have, maybe, noticed the pattern there, though.
    A lot of noise about US military might being not a might at all. Plenty of players ready to challenge that, even win.
    Until US does something…………………..
    And then plenty of noise why those players didn’t challenge, that time, that might. But, of course, they will the next time.
    And the next time…and the next time.

    I wrote here plenty of times before: if U.S. Administration believes that the Fatso is about to have a nuclear tipped missile capable of reaching Hawaii, it will strike. Estimates were between 2 and 10 years. Nobody knows.

    Looks to me that the Fatso is retreating that “nuking US mainland”.
    Not that I believe him much, but, could be wrong.
    We’ll see what happens on the ground there. That’s all what matters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @myself

    Yes you do. Intimately.
     
    Quite sure I didn't before your helpful answer. Now that I do, I'll make sure to be on the lookout for such er, signs.

    Because Russians are behind Assad. They are not behind the Fatso. Actually, nobody is. I don’t believe Chinese are. In fact, should the push come to shove I believe Chinese will support the strike.
     
    Now, we come to the very heart of the disagreement. You say China does not support Kim, I say on the other hand that if Kim is struck first, China is in. China DOES want Kim gone, but only on their timetable, and only on their terms - certainly not America's.

    Alright, an impasse - let it remain, then. Nothing to be gained by discussing it further.
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  71. myself says:
    @peterAUS

    Wiping them out – an interesting idea. Now, HOW to actually er, “wipe them out” as you put it?
     
    with

    “A nation wiped out purely from the air and the sea” – I will believe THAT when it actually happens
     
    Is it my English or you have a reading problem? Comprehension problem even?
    Yes, we both know, that's not it. It's "chattering class" thing.

    So, for the benefit of some other people reading this, perhaps, here I'll reply, briefly.

    Wipe out the Kim cabal.
    Air strike preferably and the most likely.

    Would that be just a single strike on them or a part of prolonged campaign, including a limited land incursion nobody knows. Such things tend to have their own logic.

    You appear to be sending a message you are keen to learn. Doubt it, but, for a sake of conversation you could go through my post history on this site re that issue and read that. Not only my posts, of curse, but all those conversations. There were a couple of guys there with a valuable insight.
    I give that, reading I mean, around 1 % probability. "Chattering classes" don't do that. They already know everything and just love to lecture. Moral lectures in particular.
    Feels good.

    Well, I for one do enjoy your earlier stuff peterAUS, when you talk about the gritty details of combat at the tactical level. You’ve got almost 1,600 comments on the site, doubt I’d ever get through all of them. Will try to read the interesting ones – the ones on the dynamics of the battlefield mostly. May not help me with strategic insight, but the tactical stuff’s mostly good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well...well....

    May not help me with strategic insight, but the tactical stuff’s mostly good.
     
    maybe I could stand corrected re rare exceptions within the "chattering class".
    Maybe you are one of them. Exceptions I mean. Those rare specimens of that class able to actually at least try to get the point, or two, from pros (ex or current).
    My experience is one in hundred, tops.

    True, strategy isn't something that interests me much. Tactics is.
    A couple of reasons for that.
    The most important I do have a real world experience in tactics (or so I say). Now...I do not have such experience in strategy. Not even close.

    Now....what do you think (rhetorical question), how many people posting here do have that sort of experience re strategy?
    My take....none. Not one.

    So....makes you think, a?
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  72. bjondo says:
    @bjondo
    US main reason for Korean separation - til now.

    With Trump their is a paradigm earthquake. Notice how the establishment has been reacting.

    Can't think the same as before.

    there

    Read More
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  73. myself says:
    @peterAUS

    As a minor aside, you seem fond of referring to “chattering classes” – I am sure I have no idea what that phrase means, please explain. Or maybe point me to an approximate meaning (a link maybe?)
     
    Yes you do. Intimately.
    2 seconds Googling:
    The chattering classes is a generally derogatory term first coined by Auberon Waugh often used by pundits and political commentators to refer to a politically active, socially concerned and highly educated section of the "metropolitan middle class", especially those with political, media, and academic connections.

    As for the rest, because it's concise and (not yet) with name callings and such:

    Let’s suppose, for the sake of discussion, it were so practicable, then why not wipe out the Bashar al Assad regime in Damascus FIRST, as a sort of “proof of concept”?
     
    Because Russians are behind Assad. They are not behind the Fatso. Actually, nobody is. I don't believe Chinese are. In fact, should the push come to shove I believe Chinese will support the strike.

    That is, unless one already believes that our potential foes (North Korea, say) quake in their boots at the merest suggestion of “American airpower”. In which case, real-world proof becomes unnecessary – at least not in Washington’s keen strategic mind.
     
    I'll rephrase
    That is, unless one already believes that some of our potential foes (North Korea, say) are very concerned about the possibility that they'll get at the receiving end of the US military might.
    Any sane person would.
    That is, unless one really believes that US military might is on decline/weakening/incompetent/etc.
    Plenty of those around.

    You have, maybe, noticed the pattern there, though.
    A lot of noise about US military might being not a might at all. Plenty of players ready to challenge that, even win.
    Until US does something.......................
    And then plenty of noise why those players didn't challenge, that time, that might. But, of course, they will the next time.
    And the next time...and the next time.

    I wrote here plenty of times before: if U.S. Administration believes that the Fatso is about to have a nuclear tipped missile capable of reaching Hawaii, it will strike. Estimates were between 2 and 10 years. Nobody knows.

    Looks to me that the Fatso is retreating that "nuking US mainland".
    Not that I believe him much, but, could be wrong.
    We'll see what happens on the ground there. That's all what matters.

    Yes you do. Intimately.

    Quite sure I didn’t before your helpful answer. Now that I do, I’ll make sure to be on the lookout for such er, signs.

    Because Russians are behind Assad. They are not behind the Fatso. Actually, nobody is. I don’t believe Chinese are. In fact, should the push come to shove I believe Chinese will support the strike.

    Now, we come to the very heart of the disagreement. You say China does not support Kim, I say on the other hand that if Kim is struck first, China is in. China DOES want Kim gone, but only on their timetable, and only on their terms – certainly not America’s.

    Alright, an impasse – let it remain, then. Nothing to be gained by discussing it further.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Nothing to be gained by discussing it further.
     
    Agree.

    Just to clarify my position:
    If the push comes to shove Beijing will cut a deal; the Fatso and his cabal as collateral.
    I have no doubt in my mind about that.

    What kind of deal remains to be seen.
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  74. @myself

    and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them —-
     
    No, that wasn't a win for them.

    The United States quitting as a result of North Vietnam "quitting" (pretending to quit) - there's your clear win for the North.

    What a silly notion. Had it not been for the treaty agreement. I might agree.

    But all of this after the fact, it was only a pretense ignores the events. If quit the ring and then come back afterwords a fight an opponent who isn’t in the ring –

    You lose twice. Ignoring the fact that the US was no longer in Vietnam is why so much silly putty passes for serious policy making.

    No weapons of WMD — yes there is — ok, prove it. See these card board drawings –

    Scratching my head. I see the card board drawings. What i don’t see is evidence of wmd in Iraq. But millions of high IQ, highly schooled, connected members of the dominant superior culture made war anyway. And they remain in power, well connected — millions of them even claim to be Christians.

    Come back when you have something besides — well they just pretended . . . I prefer to stay out of 1984 interrogation rooms.

    Read More
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  75. @EliteCommInc.
    Let's be clear. The US sought to defend the country of S Vietnam in their choice to chart their own destiny. And the press against communism was not a US goal alone. Western Europe, Asia, and even states on the African and S. American continent chose to oppose communism.

    North Vietnam along with North Korea, China and Russia -- with whom also trade aided the North Vietnamese. The North Vietnamese with their support violated every peace accord since and prior to 1954 and were the reasons for war on every occasion.

    Not only am I right, my position reveals the entire bankruptcy of logic, reason, mind and truth about the Vietnam conflict that has been ceaselessly pounded into the US psyche. The evidence:

    US war protesters telling the US government to give peace a chance when in fact it was the US and S. Vietnam and her allies who were defending peace in the region and the North Vietnamese and her allies who violated peace at every turn. The US lost near 50,000 service personnel in that effort, the south Vietnamese lost a million or more. and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them ----

    Truth spun on it's proverbial rhetorical head

    And when the North began a second war after the US left applauded by China and the Russia and North Korea, and North Vietnamese communists began their campaign of murderous purging ravaging the country of any intellectual, and economic capital -- the :give peace a chance" crowd was deafeningly silent.


    Preventing that slaughter, a staple of communist cleaning the slate policies, -- was not senseless.

    correction: The US lost near 60,000 service personnel in that effort, the south Vietnamese lost a million or more. and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them —-

    Read More
    • Replies: @myself
    Let me rephrase:

    North Vietnam quitting was no win for North Vietnam.

    But when the North renewed the war, it was clear they hadn't lost at all.

    At that point, the United States refused to come back into the fight. And that's when the North actually won, this time, for good.
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  76. peterAUS says:
    @myself
    Well, I for one do enjoy your earlier stuff peterAUS, when you talk about the gritty details of combat at the tactical level. You've got almost 1,600 comments on the site, doubt I'd ever get through all of them. Will try to read the interesting ones - the ones on the dynamics of the battlefield mostly. May not help me with strategic insight, but the tactical stuff's mostly good.

    Well…well….

    May not help me with strategic insight, but the tactical stuff’s mostly good.

    maybe I could stand corrected re rare exceptions within the “chattering class”.
    Maybe you are one of them. Exceptions I mean. Those rare specimens of that class able to actually at least try to get the point, or two, from pros (ex or current).
    My experience is one in hundred, tops.

    True, strategy isn’t something that interests me much. Tactics is.
    A couple of reasons for that.
    The most important I do have a real world experience in tactics (or so I say). Now…I do not have such experience in strategy. Not even close.

    Now….what do you think (rhetorical question), how many people posting here do have that sort of experience re strategy?
    My take….none. Not one.

    So….makes you think, a?

    Read More
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  77. myself says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    correction: The US lost near 60,000 service personnel in that effort, the south Vietnamese lost a million or more. and when the North finally quit, we had people in the US claim their quitting as a win for them —-

    Let me rephrase:

    North Vietnam quitting was no win for North Vietnam.

    But when the North renewed the war, it was clear they hadn’t lost at all.

    At that point, the United States refused to come back into the fight. And that’s when the North actually won, this time, for good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Dense is dense. they lost the first war that included the US.. That was no pretense -- they couldn't win and they didn't. It is however interesting to watch you do the Mexican rhetorical two step.


    They did win the second war against S. Vietnam. No kidding . . But the game you have been ropa doping is to bled the two... into one as per the comments,

    "North Vietnam quitting was no win for North Vietnam.

    But when the North renewed the war, it was clear they hadn’t lost at all."


    Which if course makes no sense but is typical of the liberal scramble to have my cake and eat ypours too kind of logic. It's like having a conversation with Vietnamese who simply refuses to admit what a failure their entire Vietnam campaign has been.

    evidence the mad scramble to embrace capitalism --- so even by your own hoola hoop gambit, Vietnam admits that their choice of communist governance fails. They lose again. Comes from spinning imaginary truths.
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  78. peterAUS says:
    @myself

    Yes you do. Intimately.
     
    Quite sure I didn't before your helpful answer. Now that I do, I'll make sure to be on the lookout for such er, signs.

    Because Russians are behind Assad. They are not behind the Fatso. Actually, nobody is. I don’t believe Chinese are. In fact, should the push come to shove I believe Chinese will support the strike.
     
    Now, we come to the very heart of the disagreement. You say China does not support Kim, I say on the other hand that if Kim is struck first, China is in. China DOES want Kim gone, but only on their timetable, and only on their terms - certainly not America's.

    Alright, an impasse - let it remain, then. Nothing to be gained by discussing it further.

    Nothing to be gained by discussing it further.

    Agree.

    Just to clarify my position:
    If the push comes to shove Beijing will cut a deal; the Fatso and his cabal as collateral.
    I have no doubt in my mind about that.

    What kind of deal remains to be seen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TT
    The deal is to send @PeterAus & @jilles dykstra to go fight the Korean war, since they both harbour deep animosity with NK & Kim. NK & kim has hurt them deeply for generation, so deep that they wish to see NK 25M innocents wipeout by the greatest evil axis of this planet.

    Here's the nuke suicide belts, Peter & jills, took one each & go for your revenge against NK.

    The regime needed to be changed for world peace are FUKUS-Is-In-Jp-Oz-KSAGulfs-Turks, but you won't do it bcos you are part of that axis.
    , @TT
    The deal is to send PeterAus & jilles dykstra to go fight the Korean war.

    Let all our boys stay at home not die for the Anglozionist deep states.
    , @Joe Wong
    Perhaps the Korean War was a commie fabrication in your mind too. You should know the Korean War was not the first war Chinese fought in Korea against Korea's invader. Chinese know when Korea falls, China will be the next one to fall, then China will be plunged into chaos, disasters, and misery for decades if not centuries. The first Sino-Jap war was a painful reminder to any Chinese the lesson of losing war in Korea.

    Air strike NK? Perhaps the American wants to use Chinese hand to destroy Japan so that they only have to kowtow to one Asian not two, particular the other one is their former lackey and butcher.
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  79. Miro23 says:

    “If Trump tries to play hardball with Kim, he risks looking like a warmonger and a bully whose policies are inimical to Korean interests, north and south. Intentionally of otherwise, Moon, a lifelong advocate of detente with personal connections to North Korea, has spiked Trump’s guns.”

    The South are ethnic nationalists (i.e. for all Koreans – North and South) and Kim is a scared dictator, aware of what happened to Saddam and Gaddafi.

    So Kim prefers to surrender to the South (with a sure welcome) rather than get vaporized by the Americans – Quite sensible really – And as a bonus, the Koreans (all of them) might finally get US bases out of their part of Asia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Kim is a scared dictator....
     
    Yup.

    I am not so sure about

    Kim prefers to surrender to the South...
     
    though.

    I believe he prefers to retire somewhere in China.

    I have a feeling that the deal between the real players (US and China, in that order) is being hammered out.
    The both Korea(ns) are just playing their assigned roles.

    We'll see, rather soon, how real all that is.
    I'll be watching one thing, only: that mid-range nuclear tipped ballistic missile program.
    All the rest can go back to the usual, so The Empire can go for the real next target, Iran.
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  80. @myself
    Let me rephrase:

    North Vietnam quitting was no win for North Vietnam.

    But when the North renewed the war, it was clear they hadn't lost at all.

    At that point, the United States refused to come back into the fight. And that's when the North actually won, this time, for good.

    Dense is dense. they lost the first war that included the US.. That was no pretense — they couldn’t win and they didn’t. It is however interesting to watch you do the Mexican rhetorical two step.

    They did win the second war against S. Vietnam. No kidding . . But the game you have been ropa doping is to bled the two… into one as per the comments,

    “North Vietnam quitting was no win for North Vietnam.

    But when the North renewed the war, it was clear they hadn’t lost at all.”

    Which if course makes no sense but is typical of the liberal scramble to have my cake and eat ypours too kind of logic. It’s like having a conversation with Vietnamese who simply refuses to admit what a failure their entire Vietnam campaign has been.

    evidence the mad scramble to embrace capitalism — so even by your own hoola hoop gambit, Vietnam admits that their choice of communist governance fails. They lose again. Comes from spinning imaginary truths.

    Read More
    • Replies: @myself
    Let's see if we can't disentangle matters.

    I'll meet you half-way.

    If you say that the first phase of the American war in Vietnam, when U.S., allied contingents and the South Vietnamese fought the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong, was a North Vietnamese loss, I agree. Clearly, the North did not achieve their goal of national unification.

    THEREFORE, THE NORTH LOST.

    And if the whole thing ended there, indeed, they lost, and we WON by preserving South Vietnam, at least while we were in-country.

    But here's an alternative perspective:

    Our goal was (you might disagree) a South Vietnam that was viable in the long run, independent and with a non-Communist government - however long that took.
    It was not, IMHO, a South Vietnam in existence only so long as we were in the fight.

    The North Vietnamese objective was the opposite: The extinguishing of South Vietnam, a unified Vietnam under Communist rule - however long that took, as well..

    By the straight-forward criteria of who accomplished his goal, and who didn't, we come to a different conclusion.

    You could say, "No way that formulation counts, you're taking the whole era as one, when there were 2 separate wars". In a way, yes. Arguably 2 wars, due to that 2 1/2 year lull in between. (Vietnam might have been 3 wars, if you count the French phase).

    But isn't it the case that we declined to fight in the "second" war, mainly due to having been bled badly in the "first" war? Remember the goal - "a long term viable South Vietnam". We clearly could have jumped back in, and fought some more. But we did not, by choice. Too painful.

    Are the 2 wars really separate when what happened in Phase 1 (mass U.S. casualties) directly impacted our decision to sit things out in Phase 2? IMHO, without any mental gymnastics, you could look at the whole thing as one long, integrated war.

    "THE Vietnam War", as history has termed it. Now, Vietnam is turning towards capitalism. With one extremely important feature - since they eventually prevailed in the conflict, they can implement capitalism on THEIR terms, not ours.

    Unified independence was always their goal, and some Americans were saying that even then, some 45 to 50 years ago.

    , @CalDre

    they lost the first war that included the US
     
    It's true, the N. Vietnamese could not overcome the utter barbarity, savagery and brutality of the US death squads. 8 million Vietnamese murdered - chemical weapons, napalm, scorched Earth, rape, torture, etc. The US, the utterly savage beast, ravaging on innocent blood. The N. Vietnamese could not manage to come close to matching the US' cold-blooded barbarity and depravity.

    even by your own hoola hoop gambit, Vietnam admits that their choice of communist governance fails
     
    The Vietnam was was not about Communism, it was about independence and anti-colonialism/imperialism. From bloody Japan, then bloodier France and then the bloodiest of all terror states, the US. And they have largely succeeded, God bless them.
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  81. @jilles dykstra
    Demonised.
    It is not true that the north Korean regime is the worst in the world ?
    That the country is so poor that even an official car does not have windshield wipers, as I saw when a foreign tv crew was driven around ?
    What the crew also recorded was that when their minders in the official car saw a deer they were so excited, food, that they tried to shoot it.
    Then there was the empty luxury hotel, just the crew.
    The empty streets were another sign.
    Then there was an undercover video made just outside a N Korean concentration camp, made by a N Korean who had succeeded in fleeing to China, but wanted to show the world the misery in his country.
    We do not need the stories about Kim killing his enemies by literally throwing them before dogs.
    What we know for sure is bad enough.
    With such a regime the USA strikes a deal.
    I do realise that in politics one has to make dirty hands, but if anywhere in the world regime change is needed, for me N Korea.

    Then join a mercenary group and go fight. Our kids aren’t dying for it.

    Read More
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  82. peterAUS says:
    @Miro23

    “If Trump tries to play hardball with Kim, he risks looking like a warmonger and a bully whose policies are inimical to Korean interests, north and south. Intentionally of otherwise, Moon, a lifelong advocate of detente with personal connections to North Korea, has spiked Trump’s guns.”
     
    The South are ethnic nationalists (i.e. for all Koreans - North and South) and Kim is a scared dictator, aware of what happened to Saddam and Gaddafi.

    So Kim prefers to surrender to the South (with a sure welcome) rather than get vaporized by the Americans - Quite sensible really - And as a bonus, the Koreans (all of them) might finally get US bases out of their part of Asia.

    Kim is a scared dictator….

    Yup.

    I am not so sure about

    Kim prefers to surrender to the South…

    though.

    I believe he prefers to retire somewhere in China.

    I have a feeling that the deal between the real players (US and China, in that order) is being hammered out.
    The both Korea(ns) are just playing their assigned roles.

    We’ll see, rather soon, how real all that is.
    I’ll be watching one thing, only: that mid-range nuclear tipped ballistic missile program.
    All the rest can go back to the usual, so The Empire can go for the real next target, Iran.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Miro23

    All the rest can go back to the usual, so The Empire can go for the real next target, Iran.
     
    They're already hard at work on that one. Netanyahu has discovered a "hidden Iranian nuclear weapons program" that he didn't think to tell the IAEA about. So when the US unilaterally pulls out of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal later this month, the 9/11 crowd are free to False Flag Iran when it supposedly uses one of these "hidden nuclear weapons".

    In reality - what the world is going to get - is an Israeli nuclear weapon used against an American target (with an Iranian passport found nearby).
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  83. Thirdeye says:

    Grossly oversimplified narrative on the relative independence of DPRK and ROK, and the nature of the relationship between the USA and ROK. For starters, the 1953 Armistice was imposed by the US and China over the heads of Kim Il-Sung and Syngman Rhee, who still desired control over the entire peninsula sponsored by a victorious foreign power. Kim and Rhee were equally maniacal in their attitudes towards each other. North refused to recognize South. South refused to recognize North. Hence, no official peace for 65 years, only the Armistice that has been grudgingly followed by both DPRK and ROK heads of state. Not recognizing the ROK remains the official policy of the DPRK, although that facade has worn thin since their well of sponsorship from the Soviets and Chinese dried up.

    Many years have passed since the forces of its former allies, the Russians and the Chinese, left North Korea, but the Americans do not even think about leaving the South.

    The US and the Chinese weighed their means for managing the risk of the war flaring up again differently. They both knew that their client governments were ready at the drop of a hat to flare the war up again. The US managed that risk by 1) keeping the ROK army small, and 2) putting it under US command so the ROK couldn’t unilaterally flare up the war again. The PLA didn’t have that luxury. It was in badly depleted in 1953. In the Chinese calculations it was better to just to heavily arm the DPRK, even though there was a serious risk involved that they would use their new means to re-ignite the war. And of course China derived some benefit from the DPRK wild card before detente and before that wild card could negatively impact China’s interests.

    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.

    People who see the hand of China in DPRK’s changing approach to the ROK see it differently, especially in light of China’s economic interests in ROK and concerns about how renewed warfare on the peninsula would affect their interest in both the DPRK and ROK.

    But the ruler of the South, Moon, must defer to Washington for every important decision. Many presidents of the South have been removed, imprisoned, or killed by the Americans and their agents for their attempts to reconcile with the North.

    Two of the leaders deposed, Syngman Rhee and Park Chung-Hee, were the most belligerent towards the DPRK. The early ROK was full of militarists ready to attack the DPRK, but their influence was diminished once ROK’s burgeoning economy gave a sense of having something to lose should war flare up. Their legacy is in the extremely repressive laws imposed on ROK’s citizens over matters concerning the DPRK.

    China no longer fears economic competition from a united Korea and doesn’t gain any real benefit from having a dysfunctional state sucking up aid and generating refugees on their border. Bottom line, the benefits of a divided, highly militarized Korean peninsula no longer outweigh the downside for China.

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  84. myself says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    Dense is dense. they lost the first war that included the US.. That was no pretense -- they couldn't win and they didn't. It is however interesting to watch you do the Mexican rhetorical two step.


    They did win the second war against S. Vietnam. No kidding . . But the game you have been ropa doping is to bled the two... into one as per the comments,

    "North Vietnam quitting was no win for North Vietnam.

    But when the North renewed the war, it was clear they hadn’t lost at all."


    Which if course makes no sense but is typical of the liberal scramble to have my cake and eat ypours too kind of logic. It's like having a conversation with Vietnamese who simply refuses to admit what a failure their entire Vietnam campaign has been.

    evidence the mad scramble to embrace capitalism --- so even by your own hoola hoop gambit, Vietnam admits that their choice of communist governance fails. They lose again. Comes from spinning imaginary truths.

    Let’s see if we can’t disentangle matters.

    I’ll meet you half-way.

    If you say that the first phase of the American war in Vietnam, when U.S., allied contingents and the South Vietnamese fought the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong, was a North Vietnamese loss, I agree. Clearly, the North did not achieve their goal of national unification.

    THEREFORE, THE NORTH LOST.

    And if the whole thing ended there, indeed, they lost, and we WON by preserving South Vietnam, at least while we were in-country.

    But here’s an alternative perspective:

    Our goal was (you might disagree) a South Vietnam that was viable in the long run, independent and with a non-Communist government – however long that took.
    It was not, IMHO, a South Vietnam in existence only so long as we were in the fight.

    The North Vietnamese objective was the opposite: The extinguishing of South Vietnam, a unified Vietnam under Communist rule – however long that took, as well..

    By the straight-forward criteria of who accomplished his goal, and who didn’t, we come to a different conclusion.

    You could say, “No way that formulation counts, you’re taking the whole era as one, when there were 2 separate wars”. In a way, yes. Arguably 2 wars, due to that 2 1/2 year lull in between. (Vietnam might have been 3 wars, if you count the French phase).

    But isn’t it the case that we declined to fight in the “second” war, mainly due to having been bled badly in the “first” war? Remember the goal – “a long term viable South Vietnam”. We clearly could have jumped back in, and fought some more. But we did not, by choice. Too painful.

    Are the 2 wars really separate when what happened in Phase 1 (mass U.S. casualties) directly impacted our decision to sit things out in Phase 2? IMHO, without any mental gymnastics, you could look at the whole thing as one long, integrated war.

    “THE Vietnam War”, as history has termed it. Now, Vietnam is turning towards capitalism. With one extremely important feature – since they eventually prevailed in the conflict, they can implement capitalism on THEIR terms, not ours.

    Unified independence was always their goal, and some Americans were saying that even then, some 45 to 50 years ago.

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    • Replies: @Thirdeye

    Unified independence was always [Vietnam's] goal, and some Americans were saying that even then, some 45 to 50 years ago.
     
    Interesting sidelight: Ho Chi Minh's first request for support was not to the Soviets but to the Americans, who had made renouncing colonialism a condition for the the Atlantic alliance in WWII and carried it forward into the UN Charter. He took the Americans at their word. He was, of course, rebuffed as the US got squishy in face of the imperial aims of France. The ascendancy of the Communist Party in the Viet Minh was largely driven by the conditions for receiving aid from the Soviet Union.
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  85. Miro23 says:
    @peterAUS

    Kim is a scared dictator....
     
    Yup.

    I am not so sure about

    Kim prefers to surrender to the South...
     
    though.

    I believe he prefers to retire somewhere in China.

    I have a feeling that the deal between the real players (US and China, in that order) is being hammered out.
    The both Korea(ns) are just playing their assigned roles.

    We'll see, rather soon, how real all that is.
    I'll be watching one thing, only: that mid-range nuclear tipped ballistic missile program.
    All the rest can go back to the usual, so The Empire can go for the real next target, Iran.

    All the rest can go back to the usual, so The Empire can go for the real next target, Iran.

    They’re already hard at work on that one. Netanyahu has discovered a “hidden Iranian nuclear weapons program” that he didn’t think to tell the IAEA about. So when the US unilaterally pulls out of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal later this month, the 9/11 crowd are free to False Flag Iran when it supposedly uses one of these “hidden nuclear weapons”.

    In reality – what the world is going to get – is an Israeli nuclear weapon used against an American target (with an Iranian passport found nearby).

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  86. CalDre says:
    @Anon
    The ruler of the North, Kim, can do anything that his people agree to do.

    The people of the North have a choice in the matter? ROTFL. They have no choice but to agree.

    North is politically independent but systematically remains colonized by Stalinism that was implemented under Soviet occupation. Stalinism + Dynasticism never allowed for the development of true nationalism. The whole nation became a Family Cult not unlike the Moonie the Loony of Unification Church. Soviets are long gone from Korea but its system still plagues that nation.

    South is a puppet of the US, but US political influence was, on the whole, positive until recently. US once supported authoritarianism that was still better than totalitarianism. Also, SK and many such nations back then were not ready for democracy. Even under military government, South Korea had plenty of social and economic freedom like China today. So, even as SK lacked political independence of NK, it was freer and more dynamic.

    Also, until the vast changes in the 90s, US was ruled by white Christian America. Its cultural and moral influence were good on the whole. But since then, US has been Jewish-and-homo-ruled, and its influence has been risible around the world, what with Homomania as the battle cry of New Empire. Ghetto rap is what American freedom is about.
    And Diversity and 'inclusion' which are really tools of imperialism. Prior to Jewish-and-homo takeover, the US had a sense of national identity and respected the national rights of other nations. US back then would never have urged Poland or Hungary to take in tons of Africans and Muslims. If anything, it was telling Eastern European nations to seek national independence from the Soviet Empire. Now, the US message to the world is WELCOME INVASION and SURRENDER IDENTITY.

    Anyway, the case of China and Korea show that national independence isn't enough. Red China was independent, but Mao was terrible. In contrast, US-occupied Taiwan and UK-occupied Hong Kong did much better. Lots of good influence from what became benevolent and enlightened imperialism. Imperialism can't last forever but it can pass good ideas from one place to another.

    But I don't think good ideas can pass from US and UK to other parts of the world anymore. The cultural and ideological landscape of both is pure poison from homomania, to pornification of even Disney, to PC tyranny, to destruction of the past, and vileness all around.
    UK welcomes invasion, so what is its message to other nations? Welcome invasion, worship negroes and homos, and support any war for Israel. How utterly rotten.

    Many presidents of the South have been removed, imprisoned, or killed by the Americans and their agents for their attempts to reconcile with the North.

    Who would they be? Park was killed because he wanted reconciliation with the North? I know there's a theory that says he was killed cuz he wanted nukes, but I don't buy it.
    Since his assassination, no other president has been assassinated in SK. Some were arrested but for corruption.

    The people of the North have a choice in the matter? ROTFL. They have no choice but to agree.

    Oh yeah? And what choice do you have in the fucking US of A? You can pull a lever every 2 years? Then what? Go on a protest and get tear-gassed, kettled, beaten and imprisoned but otherwise ignored? Then what?

    You have some f*ed up notion of governmental accountability. Western “democracies” are an abject joke, there’s nothing whatsoever democratic about them, aside from Switzerland and maybe some Nordic countries. It’s all controlled opposition and political theater. In the end you are still under the boot of the Government Thugs.

    US has a higher prison population than anyone else in the world. That’s the government thug boot on your neck. More than anywhere else.

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  87. CalDre says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    Dense is dense. they lost the first war that included the US.. That was no pretense -- they couldn't win and they didn't. It is however interesting to watch you do the Mexican rhetorical two step.


    They did win the second war against S. Vietnam. No kidding . . But the game you have been ropa doping is to bled the two... into one as per the comments,

    "North Vietnam quitting was no win for North Vietnam.

    But when the North renewed the war, it was clear they hadn’t lost at all."


    Which if course makes no sense but is typical of the liberal scramble to have my cake and eat ypours too kind of logic. It's like having a conversation with Vietnamese who simply refuses to admit what a failure their entire Vietnam campaign has been.

    evidence the mad scramble to embrace capitalism --- so even by your own hoola hoop gambit, Vietnam admits that their choice of communist governance fails. They lose again. Comes from spinning imaginary truths.

    they lost the first war that included the US

    It’s true, the N. Vietnamese could not overcome the utter barbarity, savagery and brutality of the US death squads. 8 million Vietnamese murdered – chemical weapons, napalm, scorched Earth, rape, torture, etc. The US, the utterly savage beast, ravaging on innocent blood. The N. Vietnamese could not manage to come close to matching the US’ cold-blooded barbarity and depravity.

    even by your own hoola hoop gambit, Vietnam admits that their choice of communist governance fails

    The Vietnam was was not about Communism, it was about independence and anti-colonialism/imperialism. From bloody Japan, then bloodier France and then the bloodiest of all terror states, the US. And they have largely succeeded, God bless them.

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  88. TT says:
    @Mike P
    There is no need to fear a united Korea - it will pose no threat to anyone, no more than united Vietnam and united Germany did. The main focus of their foreign policy will be to retain some degree of independence from China; this purpose would not be served by antagonising Japan or anyone else.

    What we are are seeing here is truly remarkable - a peaceful hand-over from the outgoing superpower to the ascendant one. Let's hope that the two will be able to make some face-saving deals on Afghanistan and Iran also, and that Trump survives long enough for these to come to fruition.

    Only those war mongering countries have fear for a strong Korea, ie Jp & FUKUS.

    A peaceful United Korea will be a medium country, as strong as France, that’s about all. Nothing of a threat to China & Russia or Asia. But its industrial power will threaten declining Jp.

    What we are are seeing here is truly remarkable – a peaceful hand-over from the outgoing superpower to the ascendant one. Let’s hope that the two will be able to make some face-saving deals on Afghanistan and Iran also, and that Trump survives long enough for these to come to fruition.

    US will never hand over anything in peace, never, not before China collapse it thoroughly by uprooting Dollar.

    After Petrol Yuan launched, this mth Commodity Yuan will be launched. China version of Swift has also rolled out for global yuan based transaction usage. Baao declaration of expedited opening up of China market will suck in all investments and turbo boost China GDP & Yuan usage.

    This will force US to risk using military as last resort, like the final struggle of a trapped animal. But Russia & China alliance will survive.

    If Trump ever resist TPTB order, JFK is his ending, impeachment will be his lucky escape.

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  89. @Anonymous
    Not sure what your point is. Just because they could trade with China does not mean that they had free access to the rest of the world. You think the Chinese were giving market prices to N Korean coal?

    I don’t know, but even receiving sub-market prices (and being able to import stuff) is better than receiving nothing and thus being unable to import anything.

    As one commenter already pointed out, it’s actually possible that they were subsidized by China. (Though I think that was less the case in recent years than previously, but I could be wrong.)

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  90. @EliteCommInc.
    I don't think you get it --- sanctions did not change North Korean policy.

    North Korea has been a closed society since the end of the Korean conflict ---- hardship is part and parcel to their resolve to defy the US in preparation what they have thought would be a US invasion. And only once has the US indicated they were anything but an invasion force waiting for action.

    That was a nuclear deal that we reneged on and set the in stone the present state of affairs.

    Sanctions had little or effect against a state that existed in perpetual war mode with the US.

    sanctions did not change North Korean policy

    Non sequitur.

    The previous sanctions were relatively mild. The current sanctions (which are enforced by China) are much tougher.

    So only because the milder sanctions didn’t change Nork policy, it doesn’t mean the extremely tough sanctions had no effect either.

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Suppose I increase trade by twenty percent. Suppose that increase amounts to 5 billion dollars. Then I sign on to a trade sanction that cut that trade by 1/3. That's a loss of 1.6 billion but leaves with a net gain of 3,4 billion.


    Considering the increase in trade is not only relevant to calculate the impact of a sanction, it's vital.

    Note: I am going to have to reject your suggestion that sanctions had no impact in general. But not enough to change policy.

    China appreciates a strong military vibrant North Korea that is a southern strategic God send. The earth may be shifting here, but not as much or as quickly as some might want.

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  91. @peterAUS
    20?
    I'd say shorter than that.
    Much shorter.

    He and his cabal are being boxed in, and they know it.
    Good.

    I’d say shorter than that.
    Much shorter.

    Well, yes, it’s even possible he’ll be in exile (or prison, or dead) in 2 years.

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  92. TT says:
    @peterAUS

    Nothing to be gained by discussing it further.
     
    Agree.

    Just to clarify my position:
    If the push comes to shove Beijing will cut a deal; the Fatso and his cabal as collateral.
    I have no doubt in my mind about that.

    What kind of deal remains to be seen.

    The deal is to send @PeterAus & to go fight the Korean war, since they both harbour deep animosity with NK & Kim. NK & kim has hurt them deeply for generation, so deep that they wish to see NK 25M innocents wipeout by the greatest evil axis of this planet.

    Here’s the nuke suicide belts, Peter & jills, took one each & go for your revenge against NK.

    The regime needed to be changed for world peace are FUKUS-Is-In-Jp-Oz-KSAGulfs-Turks, but you won’t do it bcos you are part of that axis.

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  93. TT says:
    @Mark Presco
    I have never put much stock in the author’s position that the US has prevented reunification. This is another example of victimology excuse making. I put the onus on the Koreans themselves. They both could have and should have done it themselves by now.

    The biggest obstacle was the Kims and their supporters who simply wanted to retain their privileged life style, and a population who wouldn’t fight for their own freedoms. The south Koreans, simply taking the easy path.

    I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but I hope there is real progress. But to reiterate, it is the responsibility of the Koreans themselves to pick up the ball and run with it if they really want to achieve anything at all.

    However, let take a different tack. Maybe they shouldn’t fully reunify. In the coming balkanization of the USA, I want to live in a white nation. It will be built on the individualistic pillars established in the Constitution. The white nationalist collectivists must have their own nation, these communists will not be welcome in mine.

    So maybe the Koreans should build on what they already have. The south more capitalist and individualist, and the north collectivist, with people free to seek the culture which best suits their nature. However, they should keep their ethnic identify and work more closely together.

    In the coming balkanization of the USA, I want to live in a white nation.

    Kamma is always fair, what’s go out come back eventually. So which state you have chosen for your white nation? Alaska?

    Im afraid you might have to move to East Europe or Russia for that last few batons of wasp.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    You mean “bastions.”

    And Slavic people are not “WASPs” as the term has been used. (A good number of Americans have both British and Slavic heritage, like me, but Slavs are not Anglo-Saxons :)

    As for Alaska, even they are getting mestizo “Latinos”. AK also has a lot of Filipinos, which is better than a lot of other immigrant communities.

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  94. TT says:
    @peterAUS

    Nothing to be gained by discussing it further.
     
    Agree.

    Just to clarify my position:
    If the push comes to shove Beijing will cut a deal; the Fatso and his cabal as collateral.
    I have no doubt in my mind about that.

    What kind of deal remains to be seen.

    The deal is to send PeterAus & jilles dykstra to go fight the Korean war.

    Let all our boys stay at home not die for the Anglozionist deep states.

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  95. Joe Wong says:
    @peterAUS

    Nothing to be gained by discussing it further.
     
    Agree.

    Just to clarify my position:
    If the push comes to shove Beijing will cut a deal; the Fatso and his cabal as collateral.
    I have no doubt in my mind about that.

    What kind of deal remains to be seen.

    Perhaps the Korean War was a commie fabrication in your mind too. You should know the Korean War was not the first war Chinese fought in Korea against Korea’s invader. Chinese know when Korea falls, China will be the next one to fall, then China will be plunged into chaos, disasters, and misery for decades if not centuries. The first Sino-Jap war was a painful reminder to any Chinese the lesson of losing war in Korea.

    Air strike NK? Perhaps the American wants to use Chinese hand to destroy Japan so that they only have to kowtow to one Asian not two, particular the other one is their former lackey and butcher.

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  96. RodW says:

    John Bolton was on TV the other night saying that he fancies the ‘Libyan model’ of disarmament for North Korea. What could be better calculated to make Kim pucker, at both ends?

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  97. @Anon
    Tell that to the Vietnamese, Iranians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Haitians, Philippinos, etc…

    US got involved in Vietnam, Iran, and Guatemala for ideological or economic issues. US was interested in controlling the politics of those nations, not changing the entire makeup of the nation.

    In contrast, the US wants to change the entire makeup of not only the US but other nations. US elites tell Poland and Hungary and Japan to abolish themselves and worship Homomania. When the US promotes Diversity, it is encouraging Invasive Demographic Imperialism on all nations(but Israel).

    As for Cuba and Philippines, US 'inherited' them from the Spanish Empire. Cuba was never an independent nation but created of an empire. Philippines was also won from the Spanish. But the US did let Philippines go. If Philippines has remained close to the US, it's because the people there are idiots who depend on others to get any thing done.
    And US never did anything decisive against Castro. Bay of Pigs fizzled. If anything, the embargo only pressured Cuba to develop more independently from the US sphere.

    I don’t think you know enough Filipinos or enough about the Philippines. They suffer from excessive population growth and corruption, like much of the world, but there is ample intelligence, resilience, industriousness, and decency to be found among Pinoys in the Phils and abroad.

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  98. @TT

    In the coming balkanization of the USA, I want to live in a white nation.
     
    Kamma is always fair, what's go out come back eventually. So which state you have chosen for your white nation? Alaska?

    Im afraid you might have to move to East Europe or Russia for that last few batons of wasp.

    You mean “bastions.”

    And Slavic people are not “WASPs” as the term has been used. (A good number of Americans have both British and Slavic heritage, like me, but Slavs are not Anglo-Saxons :)

    As for Alaska, even they are getting mestizo “Latinos”. AK also has a lot of Filipinos, which is better than a lot of other immigrant communities.

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    • Replies: @TT
    Yes, sorry for poor spelling. Bastion.

    At least East European & Russians are still keeping the respectable decency of "whites Christian" values. Can't say for the homophile LBGT West now. They have largely destroyed their own good civilization. I hope most slavics are not yet been corrupted.

    So even Alaska we aren't free from non white.…except the snow is still all white. But philippinos certainly are better one to live with. Their women are quite pretty & feminine to make a good wife too, i knew quite a number.
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  99. Thirdeye says:
    @myself
    Let's see if we can't disentangle matters.

    I'll meet you half-way.

    If you say that the first phase of the American war in Vietnam, when U.S., allied contingents and the South Vietnamese fought the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong, was a North Vietnamese loss, I agree. Clearly, the North did not achieve their goal of national unification.

    THEREFORE, THE NORTH LOST.

    And if the whole thing ended there, indeed, they lost, and we WON by preserving South Vietnam, at least while we were in-country.

    But here's an alternative perspective:

    Our goal was (you might disagree) a South Vietnam that was viable in the long run, independent and with a non-Communist government - however long that took.
    It was not, IMHO, a South Vietnam in existence only so long as we were in the fight.

    The North Vietnamese objective was the opposite: The extinguishing of South Vietnam, a unified Vietnam under Communist rule - however long that took, as well..

    By the straight-forward criteria of who accomplished his goal, and who didn't, we come to a different conclusion.

    You could say, "No way that formulation counts, you're taking the whole era as one, when there were 2 separate wars". In a way, yes. Arguably 2 wars, due to that 2 1/2 year lull in between. (Vietnam might have been 3 wars, if you count the French phase).

    But isn't it the case that we declined to fight in the "second" war, mainly due to having been bled badly in the "first" war? Remember the goal - "a long term viable South Vietnam". We clearly could have jumped back in, and fought some more. But we did not, by choice. Too painful.

    Are the 2 wars really separate when what happened in Phase 1 (mass U.S. casualties) directly impacted our decision to sit things out in Phase 2? IMHO, without any mental gymnastics, you could look at the whole thing as one long, integrated war.

    "THE Vietnam War", as history has termed it. Now, Vietnam is turning towards capitalism. With one extremely important feature - since they eventually prevailed in the conflict, they can implement capitalism on THEIR terms, not ours.

    Unified independence was always their goal, and some Americans were saying that even then, some 45 to 50 years ago.

    Unified independence was always [Vietnam's] goal, and some Americans were saying that even then, some 45 to 50 years ago.

    Interesting sidelight: Ho Chi Minh’s first request for support was not to the Soviets but to the Americans, who had made renouncing colonialism a condition for the the Atlantic alliance in WWII and carried it forward into the UN Charter. He took the Americans at their word. He was, of course, rebuffed as the US got squishy in face of the imperial aims of France. The ascendancy of the Communist Party in the Viet Minh was largely driven by the conditions for receiving aid from the Soviet Union.

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  100. denk says:

    Is the NK/Murikka kabuki cumulating into a farcical climax…..another Nobel peace prize for uncle sham,

    agent provocateur extraordinaire ….

    Nobel citation…
    ‘whose admirable resoluteness forced NK to the negotiating table and finally bring peace to the Korean Peninsula’ ?

    stranger stuffs have happened before….

    hehehhehe

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    • Replies: @TT
    If monstrous murderers like Kissinger & shameless liars Obama can be awarded Noble peace prize, with any dissidents opposing FUKUS enemies like Dalai Lama, Xia Hong Bo, AungSan Suki, etc are fit to be, who else is not? Even white helmets are if they will to kill & lie less.

    Noble prize is juz toilet paper like all US international agreements, good for wiping murkans ass when they shit, & discards when finished.

    Prez Xi & Moon are more than happy to give Trumps that useless toilet paper, and took the true peace with them to make Korea Peninsula nuclear free & end the war perpetually.
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  101. TT says:
    @RadicalCenter
    You mean “bastions.”

    And Slavic people are not “WASPs” as the term has been used. (A good number of Americans have both British and Slavic heritage, like me, but Slavs are not Anglo-Saxons :)

    As for Alaska, even they are getting mestizo “Latinos”. AK also has a lot of Filipinos, which is better than a lot of other immigrant communities.

    Yes, sorry for poor spelling. Bastion.

    At least East European & Russians are still keeping the respectable decency of “whites Christian” values. Can’t say for the homophile LBGT West now. They have largely destroyed their own good civilization. I hope most slavics are not yet been corrupted.

    So even Alaska we aren’t free from non white.…except the snow is still all white. But philippinos certainly are better one to live with. Their women are quite pretty & feminine to make a good wife too, i knew quite a number.

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  102. RudyM says:
    @Anon
    The Chinese would like to see a more obedient North Korea, but they are used to fierce Korean independence by now. They apparently agreed to Kim’s steps during recent Kim’s meeting with President Xi.

    Chinese are adults or have been since the death of erratic Mao.

    Kim is a spoiled brat. But maybe he's maturing a bit.

    For a time, China washed its hands of NK because Kim executed China's man in NK. Maybe Kim and cronies saw the guy as a shill of China. I dunno. Anyway, it pissed off China big time.
    And then, Kim began to act like a total retard, making threats about shooting nukes at the US. Instead of making a rational case for nukes based on US neo-imperialism before the UN, the moron just acted the gangsta. This was GREAT for warmongers in the US. After all, Lil' Kim was bragging about how he's gonna build missiles that can reach the US. Just what the warmongers wanted to hear.
    Kim could have garnered international sympathy IF he'd used cool and rational rhetoric about why a poor weak nation like NK needs nukes as defense against US as bully. But the kid was raised a spoiled brat and grew up listening to US pop music. So, he moron decided to play gangsta, and it just turned into a bonanza for warmongers in the US. NK's rhetoric was so over-the-top that even anti-American activists around the world didn't want to take sides with NK. How can you have a rational discussion with a moron who can barely feed his people but acts like his nation constitutes the other superpower?

    This made China esp angry. China has been very patient but now Kim was acting like Bam Bam on FLINSTONES. NK's threats served as easy rationale for the US to put in THAAD missiles aimed at China. And then, when Trump threatened war, China got really pissed with NK. The last thing China wants is a war on its border. Also, Trump used NK as issue to apply economic pressure on China. So, China finally decided to join the US in totally squeezing NK. This is why spoiled brat Kim finally wised up. The squeeze was so tight that he had no choice but to negotiate. Also, unlike previous presidents, Trump sounded like a madman... as in Kissinger's 'mad man theory'. So, Kim got really worried. What if crazy Trump really starts war and smashed NK? Why, he will lose all his toys an palaces. So, Kim decided to talk with the US.
    It was then that China figured it better ease tensions with NK too. After all, if NK manages to cut a deal with the US and Japan, then China will be left out and may lose NK as a clientele. So, China decided to be nice and open relations again. This is good for Kim because he has China behind his back. Even if he gives up his nukes, it will be difficult for US to attack NK since China is an ally again. And it's good for China because if Kim behaves, makes peace, and grows up, everyone can do business.

    Some may argue that Kim's nuclear brinkmanship was genius as political theater. By raising the stakes, he forced the US to the table. And because the US and allies are so hellbent on getting rid of NK's nukes, they will be willing to pay big in aid and trade if NK decides to comply.
    But I don't think so. Kim is too stupid to have foresight or meaningful strategy. He talks about buckwheat noodles in SK. NK is an odd nation with ONLY ONE fatty. Whenever you see NK regime, Kim is the only fatty among lean people. It goes to show that even away from home, the ONLY thing on his mind is food.

    Buckwheat noodles are good.

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  103. TT says:
    @denk
    Is the NK/Murikka kabuki cumulating into a farcical climax.....another Nobel peace prize for uncle sham,

    agent provocateur extraordinaire ....

    Nobel citation...
    'whose admirable resoluteness forced NK to the negotiating table and finally bring peace to the Korean Peninsula' ?

    stranger stuffs have happened before....

    hehehhehe

    If monstrous murderers like Kissinger & shameless liars Obama can be awarded Noble peace prize, with any dissidents opposing FUKUS enemies like Dalai Lama, Xia Hong Bo, AungSan Suki, etc are fit to be, who else is not? Even white helmets are if they will to kill & lie less.

    Noble prize is juz toilet paper like all US international agreements, good for wiping murkans ass when they shit, & discards when finished.

    Prez Xi & Moon are more than happy to give Trumps that useless toilet paper, and took the true peace with them to make Korea Peninsula nuclear free & end the war perpetually.

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    Nobel piss prize is no big deal.
    But a 'peace accord' with a co-opted NK is a big problem, a unified Korea controlled from Washington is a nightmare for Beijing/

    We dont know what goes behind the scene,
    These are what we do know......

    Like Obama, KIm seems to have a rather murky background,

    His first act after assuming power was to purge all pro Beijing officials,

    Contrary to dumbed down murkkans claim that he's Beijing's pit pull, Kim has been more like a thorn in Beijing's sides .

    PACOM had a secret meeting with Kim in 2014,
    what did they talk behind closed doors ?
    Dont forget, wherever PACOM goes, it means trouble for China !

    people cheered when 'pro murkka ' Park Chun Hue was replaced by a 'more independent minded' Moon, well Im not so sure about that.

    'Pro murkka' mdm Park was actually a Sinophile, well versed with Chinese classics, she once confessed that Zhao zi Lung, the legendary general from the Romance of three kingdoms classics , was her 'first love' !
    She resisted the pressure from fukus to install the THAAD until the bitter end.

    But I think the final straw was her sojourn to Beijing 2015 to attend the WWII victory commemoration day.
    She's the only leader from the murkkan camp to attend , much to the chargrin of Washington and Tokyo !


    http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/2015/09/04/0904parkgeunhye01.jpg

    True to form of all those who defied the empire, mdm Park was soon brought down by a corruption scandal, sounds familiar ?
    poor lady now face a 24 years in prison bleak future.

    While Park tried successfully to delay the deployment of THAAD for years, her 'more liberal' replacement Moon didnt waste much time to push thru the ABM !

    Moon has just announced that 'peace accord' or otherwise, murkkan GI are staying put !

    So was Kim the man who dared to defy the empire, but unlike Gadaffi and Saddam etc etc, he live to tell his story, or was he a trojan planted by uncle sham as suggested by William Engdhal ?
    [I tend to agree, KIm's bravado was often so over the top and surreal, like 'wiping USA off the planet earth',
    Russia could do that but you never hear Putin gloating about it, it almost sounds as if KIm knew Washington wouldnt touch him.....!,]

    Was Moon the empire's man to replace Park the panda hugger ?
    Is this North/South dialog and the coming KIm./Trump meet all scripted in Wasington ?

    Anything is possible.

    After all, as Karl Rove reminds us,
    'We'r the empire, we'r the reality creators and you'll study our creations.
    While you'r at it, we'll create more realities for you to study and analysis'

    hhhhhehhehe

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  104. denk says:
    @TT
    If monstrous murderers like Kissinger & shameless liars Obama can be awarded Noble peace prize, with any dissidents opposing FUKUS enemies like Dalai Lama, Xia Hong Bo, AungSan Suki, etc are fit to be, who else is not? Even white helmets are if they will to kill & lie less.

    Noble prize is juz toilet paper like all US international agreements, good for wiping murkans ass when they shit, & discards when finished.

    Prez Xi & Moon are more than happy to give Trumps that useless toilet paper, and took the true peace with them to make Korea Peninsula nuclear free & end the war perpetually.

    Nobel piss prize is no big deal.
    But a ‘peace accord’ with a co-opted NK is a big problem, a unified Korea controlled from Washington is a nightmare for Beijing/

    We dont know what goes behind the scene,
    These are what we do know……

    Like Obama, KIm seems to have a rather murky background,

    His first act after assuming power was to purge all pro Beijing officials,

    Contrary to dumbed down murkkans claim that he’s Beijing’s pit pull, Kim has been more like a thorn in Beijing’s sides .

    PACOM had a secret meeting with Kim in 2014,
    what did they talk behind closed doors ?
    Dont forget, wherever PACOM goes, it means trouble for China !

    people cheered when ‘pro murkka ‘ Park Chun Hue was replaced by a ‘more independent minded’ Moon, well Im not so sure about that.

    ‘Pro murkka’ mdm Park was actually a Sinophile, well versed with Chinese classics, she once confessed that Zhao zi Lung, the legendary general from the Romance of three kingdoms classics , was her ‘first love’ !
    She resisted the pressure from fukus to install the THAAD until the bitter end.

    But I think the final straw was her sojourn to Beijing 2015 to attend the WWII victory commemoration day.
    She’s the only leader from the murkkan camp to attend , much to the chargrin of Washington and Tokyo !


    True to form of all those who defied the empire, mdm Park was soon brought down by a corruption scandal, sounds familiar ?
    poor lady now face a 24 years in prison bleak future.

    While Park tried successfully to delay the deployment of THAAD for years, her ‘more liberal’ replacement Moon didnt waste much time to push thru the ABM !

    Moon has just announced that ‘peace accord’ or otherwise, murkkan GI are staying put !

    So was Kim the man who dared to defy the empire, but unlike Gadaffi and Saddam etc etc, he live to tell his story, or was he a trojan planted by uncle sham as suggested by William Engdhal ?
    [I tend to agree, KIm's bravado was often so over the top and surreal, like 'wiping USA off the planet earth',
    Russia could do that but you never hear Putin gloating about it, it almost sounds as if KIm knew Washington wouldnt touch him.....!,]

    Was Moon the empire’s man to replace Park the panda hugger ?
    Is this North/South dialog and the coming KIm./Trump meet all scripted in Wasington ?

    Anything is possible.

    After all, as Karl Rove reminds us,
    We’r the empire, we’r the reality creators and you’ll study our creations.
    While you’r at it, we’ll create more realities for you to study and analysis’

    hhhhhehhehe

    Read More
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  105. TT says:

    But a ‘peace accord’ with a co-opted NK is a big problem, a unified Korea controlled from Washington is a nightmare for Beijing/

    Sure, puppet Moon juz surprisingly declared USM will be staying on regardless of peace deal. Beijing has long suspected US wish to post its army right at China border once Korea unified, like it did on Russia. And then give it a similar border war with NK(Ukraine style) for Asia to be driven into another Nato style cold war against perceived China threat. Plus Twn & HK joining force to go indepent together.

    And Kim willing to denuke without precondition of having USM army withdrawn from SK is very suspicious. He spent much time in Switzerland, drinking West anti-china koolaid. He might harbour such fantasy of been ally of good USA to enjoy great prosperity like SK, until his ass got bayonet.

    But Prez Xi team is clever enough to see thru & play along the game after SK announcement of keeping US base. We might see some surprise soon, not only CIA is capable of raising false flag. A Chinese sub can always launch a missile to Kim’s palace to derail everything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TT
    Sincerely i wish Korea people well, that some how thing will work out.

    SK is too deeply in US tentacles after 60yrs, and Moon is no freedom fighter but elected on false promise of not installing Thaad. Now he is abusing judicial system to purge all challengers like all US puppets did in Brazil, Pak, Sri Lanka, Philippine, Thailand…same CIA playbook.

    With his declaration of US troops stay as ally, only Koreans can help themselves. Juz hope Korea need not soak in blood again. China's delivery of devastating trade war is better option.
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  106. myself says:

    a unified Korea controlled from Washington

    . . . will never, ever happen. To clarify: unified Korea maybe, controlled from Washington, never.

    Just what do you think the 1950 intervention by execrably dirt-poor and exhausted China was all about? And China will stand by now, when they have the world’s most colossal industrial capacity? IMHO, nearly impossible (not quite 100%, just NEARLY).

    Koreans can rule their own destiny. A third country will not be allowed to do so. Just common sense.

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  107. myself says:

    A unified Korea lets American influence into what is now North Korea, and conversely lets Chinese influence into what’s now South Korea.

    Korea will be in play – for a long time. And China is almost never in a hurry.

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  108. @reiner Tor

    sanctions did not change North Korean policy
     
    Non sequitur.

    The previous sanctions were relatively mild. The current sanctions (which are enforced by China) are much tougher.

    So only because the milder sanctions didn't change Nork policy, it doesn't mean the extremely tough sanctions had no effect either.

    Suppose I increase trade by twenty percent. Suppose that increase amounts to 5 billion dollars. Then I sign on to a trade sanction that cut that trade by 1/3. That’s a loss of 1.6 billion but leaves with a net gain of 3,4 billion.

    Considering the increase in trade is not only relevant to calculate the impact of a sanction, it’s vital.

    Note: I am going to have to reject your suggestion that sanctions had no impact in general. But not enough to change policy.

    China appreciates a strong military vibrant North Korea that is a southern strategic God send. The earth may be shifting here, but not as much or as quickly as some might want.

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  109. TT says:
    @TT

    But a ‘peace accord’ with a co-opted NK is a big problem, a unified Korea controlled from Washington is a nightmare for Beijing/
     
    Sure, puppet Moon juz surprisingly declared USM will be staying on regardless of peace deal. Beijing has long suspected US wish to post its army right at China border once Korea unified, like it did on Russia. And then give it a similar border war with NK(Ukraine style) for Asia to be driven into another Nato style cold war against perceived China threat. Plus Twn & HK joining force to go indepent together.

    And Kim willing to denuke without precondition of having USM army withdrawn from SK is very suspicious. He spent much time in Switzerland, drinking West anti-china koolaid. He might harbour such fantasy of been ally of good USA to enjoy great prosperity like SK, until his ass got bayonet.

    But Prez Xi team is clever enough to see thru & play along the game after SK announcement of keeping US base. We might see some surprise soon, not only CIA is capable of raising false flag. A Chinese sub can always launch a missile to Kim's palace to derail everything.

    Sincerely i wish Korea people well, that some how thing will work out.

    SK is too deeply in US tentacles after 60yrs, and Moon is no freedom fighter but elected on false promise of not installing Thaad. Now he is abusing judicial system to purge all challengers like all US puppets did in Brazil, Pak, Sri Lanka, Philippine, Thailand…same CIA playbook.

    With his declaration of US troops stay as ally, only Koreans can help themselves. Juz hope Korea need not soak in blood again. China’s delivery of devastating trade war is better option.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mitleser

    Moon is no freedom fighter but elected on false promise of not installing Thaad
     
    False promises?

    https://twitter.com/mr_scientism/status/978712189086388230
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  110. Mitleser says:
    @TT
    Sincerely i wish Korea people well, that some how thing will work out.

    SK is too deeply in US tentacles after 60yrs, and Moon is no freedom fighter but elected on false promise of not installing Thaad. Now he is abusing judicial system to purge all challengers like all US puppets did in Brazil, Pak, Sri Lanka, Philippine, Thailand…same CIA playbook.

    With his declaration of US troops stay as ally, only Koreans can help themselves. Juz hope Korea need not soak in blood again. China's delivery of devastating trade war is better option.

    Moon is no freedom fighter but elected on false promise of not installing Thaad

    False promises?

    Read More
    • Replies: @TT
    Prez Park resisted Thaad openly until her term ended, to get Moon political 24yrs jail punishment for petty corruption.

    Prez Moon has Thaad flown in upon his day1 coronation. Then he tried to fool everyone by saying it was without his knowledge, yet proceed to procure Lotte golf course for Phase1 installation to be out of NK artillery range to protect US base instead of Seoul, hence the strong protest from those living near golf course worry about hazard radiation.

    China responded with economic punishment, shutting down Lotte's hundreds of huge shopping malls, tourist boycott making SK duty free shops profit dropped 99% last year, terminated SK dramas & celebraties lucrative deals, trade slow down, etc.

    SK people get the message, all didn't want to be US canon fodder, hence other counties join the protest to block phase2 Thaad installation. Moon then vowed not to joint any military alliance with US-Jp to contain China to win some easing of economy retaliation.

    Recently Moon cheated protesters again to allow USM heavy construction vehicles to move out by lying its for building SK soldiers welfare facilities. So SK police has to use force now as protesters no longer trust gov to compromise.

    Moon is either another US puppet or hamstrung into obeying. His security advisor told press there is no reason to justify for USM base to stay if Peace Treaty is signed with NK. Moon responded immediately by announcing US troops will stay as part of Korea-US alliance, unrelated to NK peace treaty, but to defend Jp against China in future Diaoyu Island conflict. His role is now clear.

    China & Russia probably has to reset entire peaceful Korea unification approach to prevent a US troop & Thaad right at their border. China FM is now meeting NK Kim, nobody know what will happen as China has to protect its legit interest.

    As many highlighted the joke, while working on another Bolton's suggested Libya style denuclearization treaty with NK, Trumps is tearing Iran's international backed treaty with Nethanyahoo false accusation & military aggression. What does that tell China?
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  111. TT says:
    @Mitleser

    Moon is no freedom fighter but elected on false promise of not installing Thaad
     
    False promises?

    https://twitter.com/mr_scientism/status/978712189086388230

    Prez Park resisted Thaad openly until her term ended, to get Moon political 24yrs jail punishment for petty corruption.

    Prez Moon has Thaad flown in upon his day1 coronation. Then he tried to fool everyone by saying it was without his knowledge, yet proceed to procure Lotte golf course for Phase1 installation to be out of NK artillery range to protect US base instead of Seoul, hence the strong protest from those living near golf course worry about hazard radiation.

    China responded with economic punishment, shutting down Lotte’s hundreds of huge shopping malls, tourist boycott making SK duty free shops profit dropped 99% last year, terminated SK dramas & celebraties lucrative deals, trade slow down, etc.

    SK people get the message, all didn’t want to be US canon fodder, hence other counties join the protest to block phase2 Thaad installation. Moon then vowed not to joint any military alliance with US-Jp to contain China to win some easing of economy retaliation.

    Recently Moon cheated protesters again to allow USM heavy construction vehicles to move out by lying its for building SK soldiers welfare facilities. So SK police has to use force now as protesters no longer trust gov to compromise.

    Moon is either another US puppet or hamstrung into obeying. His security advisor told press there is no reason to justify for USM base to stay if Peace Treaty is signed with NK. Moon responded immediately by announcing US troops will stay as part of Korea-US alliance, unrelated to NK peace treaty, but to defend Jp against China in future Diaoyu Island conflict. His role is now clear.

    China & Russia probably has to reset entire peaceful Korea unification approach to prevent a US troop & Thaad right at their border. China FM is now meeting NK Kim, nobody know what will happen as China has to protect its legit interest.

    As many highlighted the joke, while working on another Bolton’s suggested Libya style denuclearization treaty with NK, Trumps is tearing Iran’s international backed treaty with Nethanyahoo false accusation & military aggression. What does that tell China?

    Read More
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