The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewIsrael Shamir Archive
It Has Never Been So Good
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
shutterstock_746970079

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

One Hundred years after the Balfour Declaration – what is actually going on in Palestine?

I’d like to say that Palestine is burning and Israel suffers, but the truth must be told:

Israel and Palestine are prospering under Netanyahu. It has never been so good. The minimum wage on the Israeli side is now over $1500; in a couple of years it went up from 4000 to 5300 shekel per month. Inflation didn’t follow this rise, despite dire predictions. The poor are not poor anymore, though perhaps some are less than prosperous.

The prices in local currency are stable. On the international scene, the shekel is high, very high (though still below its dizzying heights of 2014), and the Treasury fights to prevent its further rise. That’s why prices appear rather expensive for a foreigner. A sandwich, the humble Israeli/Palestinian falafel and a soft drink will set you back (at least) 10 bucks, and in Tel Aviv it will probably be prepared and served by an African refugee. A modest sit-down lunch costs about 20 dollars, a good dinner much more, and you have to book it well in advance to find a table. This is on the Israeli side. On the Palestinian side, a similar lunch will cost slightly less, perhaps $15. Still the restaurants are full; Israelis love to eat and they do eat all the time, talking about food a bit too much.

Tourists stampede into the Holy Land like never before. This October, all the hotels in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv were full up; it was difficult to find a room for less than $200 per night even further afield. Bethlehem and even Hebron hotels are full, too. Their occupants are tourists heading for Jerusalem. There are queues to enter the more important sanctuaries and tourist attractions, the Nativity Church in Bethlehem and in the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem they queue for hours to venerate the spot of the Saviour’s birth and entombment.

The Palestinians are joining in this prosperity by building homes. There is a great building boom all over the West Bank. New apartment houses grow on every empty spot. Yesterday’s poor villages like Imwas near Bethlehem and Taffuh near Hebron became real towns of 3 to 4 floor modern houses, very similar to those coveted by Israelis. They are not as charming and beautiful as those built by their fathers and grandfathers, but it is a global trend.

Israel minimized the internal checkpoints that previously separated practically every Palestinian village from its neighbours. Nowadays, a Palestinian can travel more or less unhindered in his area. It is still pain in the neck to go from Bethlehem (just south of Jerusalem) to Ramallah (just north of Jerusalem), and it is almost impossible to go to Jerusalem, but this is already progress.

Ramallah is a modern city, with many recently built good houses, five-star hotels, fancy restaurants, and the near-by university of Bir Zeit. It is no longer the city that valiantly had fought the Israeli army during the Second Intifada of 2001. It has become softer. The Israeli army still enters the city whenever it wants and snatches citizens, sometimes for a irreverent posting in Facebook. Recently they arrested a young man when Google mistranslated his ‘Good Morning’ as ‘Go and Kill them’, or something similar.

Israeli citizens are not allowed by the Israeli government to enter Palestinian territories. It is probably a smart move: if the Israelis could see how similar, in the same Western-style milieu, their neighbours live, they’d understand that the Wall is not needed, for there is preciously little difference between the two sides, and that would be the end of self-imposed Jewish separatism.

I can’t possibly celebrate this convergence; I loved the good old Palestine of private stone houses amid vineyards, and Palestinian peasants always at work with their olive trees and springs. It is gone. In Dura al-Kari’a, a charming village with beautiful springs, the fields are deserted. Children of hard-working peasants work in the government offices of Ramallah and they do not dream of going back to field work. The springs are not cherished as the only source of life, they are taken care of as a pleasant memory from the irrelevant past. Neo-liberal capitalism destroyed what Zionism failed to kill.

However, this is reality of the 21st century. The same developments occurred in Provence and in Toscana across the sea; while much worse things happened in nearby Syria and Iraq. People got used to this new reality, it is only us, old romantics, who complain.

This prosperous Israel can easily absorb prosperous Palestine by voiding its apartheid laws. Years ago it would be a jump into unknown, today it will be as normal and easy step as making the border between Maryland and Virginia (there was even a border dispute between the two over Potomac River) practically invisible.

However, there are no voices in Israel calling for such a step. Jewish right-wing parties that want to integrate Palestine are willing to do so sans the inhabitants. They produce plans on how to keep the land and get rid of the people. The Jewish Israeli Left has practically disappeared. Its main Labour Party elected a new leader this month, and he already promised never to give up on settlements (they should remain Jewish forever) and never allow Arabs into his government. He also called for even a more vigorous and fighting attitude toward neighbours of the Jewish state: if they shot a missile, we should shoot fifty. The Arabs understand only the language of force, he said. With such a Left, who needs a Right?

ORDER IT NOW

So it would be sensible from the point of view of loss and profit to integrate, but it was always sensible, even in 1948, when Israel owned the only modern harbour of Haifa in the Eastern Mediterranean, the pipeline could deliver Kirkouk oil to Haifa refineries and railways connected Beirut with Damascus and Cairo via Jaffa and Tel Aviv. Even then the Jews could roll in gold, but they preferred eternal hostility. Knowing that, I am not sure this time it will be different.

The second part of the Balfour Declaration, the promise to safeguard the rights of non-Jews, turned out to be a hard part. And until the Jews are forced to reconsider, any real progress is unlikely. But even without progress and in conditions of inequality, the unique geographical position of Palestine and the reasonable economic policies of Netanyahu makes life quite bearable. It is very annoying not to be able to drive freely from Bethlehem to Ramallah or Jaffa, it is a great pain not to be able to fly from and to the only airport in the country, but economically things are not that bad. Perhaps many blacks prospered even in the days of Jim Crow, and in the days of SAR apartheid.

Israel Shamir can be reached at [email protected]

This article was first published at The Unz Review.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Israel/Palestine, Palestinians 
Hide 88 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. I don’t particularly like Jews, and I do have at least a modicum of sympathy for the Palestinians and Arabs in general, but still. I hope the Israelis won’t give up their country the way the South Africans gave up theirs. All the while I don’t support sending them (military or financial) aid or fighting wars on their behalf, and I quite definitely dislike their lobbies and their diaspora’s influence in white countries.

    • Agree: Father Coughlin
    • Replies: @neutral
    , @Dr. X
    , @druid
    , @Emanuel
  2. I honestly find it odd that this perspective is being published in the Unz Review. While obviously criticism of Jews and Israel is favored content for UR, this piece is criticizing them from an anti-racist perspective, which is, to put it mildly, not generally a very popular one here.

    The logic of the piece could easily be applied towards criticizing white rule in South Africa and Rhodesia or contesting the moral legitimacy of European claims on territory in North America and Australasia. (E.g. “America stole most of its southwest from Mexico in a war of aggression, so Amerindian descended Mexicans should have a moral right of return to the modern day American southwest”.) These are obviously views that left-wing critics of Israel would be quite sympathetic to, but ones that alt-right leaning critics (i.e. many/most UR readers and writers) would find strongly objectionable.

  3. Issac says:
    @the Supreme Gentleman

    “Hold your enemy to their own standards.”

    The alt-right reads from your playbook.

  4. Indeed not that bad, the prisoners of the concentration camp Gaza do not die of hunger, as long as the UN provides food.

  5. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Yes, the illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank are so enamored of the Palestinians, they constantly give to them raw sewage, donated out of the kindness of their Zionist hears.
    Settlers also will turn loose feral pigs onto Palestinian farms, which cause an amazing amount of damage to the farm crops, or set fire to their olive trees or chop them down, so the Palestinians lose their only source of income.

    Settlers will also go into a home and using baseball bats and M16′s chase out the original inhabitants and keep them away for at least 30 days, so the thieves, sorry, settlers, can apply to the Israeli Occupational Authority for a deed to that land, since no one is living there. Of course no one is, they got chased out by religious zealots who like to steal.

    Settlers also like to play ‘TAG” with Palestinian children, using a vehicle to see if the child is quick enough to avoid being run over. Much fun and hilarity ensues, especially when the Zionist Police Force investigates, and never find the culprit. Kind of like watching a Keystone Cops comedy in real life!

    Then there’s those Palestinian fishing boats, fishing in the narrow strip that Israel proclaimed they could fish, being shot up, captured and or burnt by the Israeli Navy, all the while Israel is proceeding with stealing the Palestinian natural gas lying off their shores.

    Let’s not forget those bombed out Gaza power plants that Israel is refusing to let supplies in to rebuild them, forcing Gazans to get by on 3-4 hours of electricity a day.

    I could go on, but for the sake of brevity, won’t list anymore of the numerous Israeli violations and thuggish activity committed against Palestinians on a daily basis.

    But hey, you can get a decent meal for a handful of shekels and that’s why I call progress on the two-state solution!

    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @jilles dykstra
  6. Z-man says:

    Hey Israel (writer not nation) here’s the simple solution, go back to the 67 borders with a few modifications (since the Jews won’t leave some of their choice apartment blocks) make Jerusalem an ‘open city’ with a UN headquarters there and capital to both Israel and Palestine and call it a day. Humm, not gonna happen aye, well eternal damnation then!

    • Replies: @skrik
  7. Z-man says:

    BTW my choice solution is for one united Palestine, where Jews, Muslims and, most important to me, Christians live in peace. But that ain’t gonna happen.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  8. It has never been so good. Your tax dollars at work.

    • Agree: jacques sheete, L.K
  9. Z-man says:
    @Greg Bacon

    My agree button doesn’t work. (Smile)

  10. Sam Shama says:

    At long last an article which shines a spotlight on the economic and social truth prevailing in Israel, including Judea and Samaria.

    Thank you, Israel. This truth needs to be told, not least on the pages of Unz Review, where talk of genocide is more common than squirrels in the Spring.

    There is work to do, and it shall be done, for the best days of the State are yet. Economic policies are certainly bearing fruit and I support greater investments in infrastructure and medium scale industry in the WB. Lessons learnt there, will prove useful for the citizenry [clods and terrorists in Gaza take note; for your days are numbered].

    We are moving toward an arrangement where Jew and Arab will live in peace and prosperity, guided and protected by the criteria and framework crafted by the State of Israel. It is helpful to note in this context that Hezbollah, that vile terrorist organisation is losing the war for hearts and minds; for simple economic aspirations trump all else. The people of Golan, Lebanon and Syria watch the truth on the ground of West Bank.

    Once again, fine piece!

    • Troll: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Alden
  11. skrik says:
    @Z-man

    go back to the 67 borders

    Well, seems that there’s actually no such thing. There is a ‘Green Line,’ “or (pre-) 1967 border or 1949 Armistice border,[1] is the demarcation line set out in the 1949 Armistice Agreements between the armies of Israel and those of its neighbors (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. It served as the de facto borders of the State of Israel from 1949 until the Six-Day War in 1967.” Note the words ‘de facto’ = “in fact, whether by right or not;” one fact of the matter is that Israel recognizes no borders at all – since it continually tries to push beyond what it currently mostly illegally squats upon. Note also that any “Armistice Agreements” did not include any actual original [1000-year-plus/minus?] Palestinian inhabitants, what I term as ELO/Os = erstwhile legal owner/occupiers.

    Note also the words “1948 Arab–Israeli War.” It was no ‘civil war’ but was the Palestinians’ neighbours trying to evict the Zs, as a direct consequence of Plan Dalet, the 1st of two major episodes of Zs’ ethnic cleansing Ps by genocidal methods, the 2nd being the 1967 outrage = another aggressive war of Zs’ choice. Note finally [for now], the pre-1948 Zs were mostly post-1897 invading aliens by stealth = unwanted, pushy immigrants.

    Now, land is “alienable” = may be traded, by voluntary, mutual agreement, and exactly so the invading aliens managed to purchase ~6% of pre-1948 Palestine. That’s all the Zs have any legal rights to, given UNSC242 = inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war, plus the prior Nuremberg judgments outlawing aggressive invasions for Lebensraum.

    Let me put that, another way: A fair exchange is no robbery; there can never be peace without justice. rgds

    • Replies: @Z-man
  12. amazed says:

    The US taxpayers provide Israel with billions of dollars and we are supposed to be impressed that there’s prosperity. Seriously!

    • Replies: @biz
  13. Z-man says:
    @skrik

    Most of the Arabs have grudgingly accepted the 67 borders, with some modifications, but The Zionist Entity refuses to ‘deal’.
    The thing is what happens in five years when Egypt and Jordan and possibly Hamas have accurate surface to surface missiles (or drones) that can strike Netanyahu’s girlfriends apartment when he’s boinking her?

    • Replies: @skrik
  14. nsa says:

    Jooies are the most most magnanimous creatures on god’s green earth………true philanthropists in every sense of the word. Kindly, generous, honest, thoughtful…..one runs out of superlative adjectives. Thanks for the insight, Izzie……….

  15. iffen says:

    The Palestinians are joining in this prosperity

    It’s about time Zionists delivered on this promise made back in the 1800′s and continuously all the way through to 1948. (I just read Sam’s comment, so this should be: all the way through to 2017.)

    Israeli citizens are not allowed by the Israeli government to enter Palestinian territories.

    Except as settlers?

  16. @Sam Shama

    “There is no chance for a change in Israeli society. Change must come from the US, from the UN, from the international community.
    This is so because Israeli society is too brainwashed, Israeli society is by far too good — Israeli society is, let’s face it, a society which is in denial: totally disconnected with reality. If it were a private person I would recommend either medication or hospitalization, because people who lose connection with reality might be very dangerous. . . .” (~ 6 min)

    Saudi Arabia is undergoing the pains of radical reformation because it is running out of money.
    KSA had for many years been able to pay off its populace, to shower them with shiny things in order to blind them to the reality that they had no essential control over their own lives.

    I think that’s the point Israel Shamir is making: Israelis — and those Palestinians who are able or willing to acquiesce — are easily bought with shiny things — lots of them — and food — lots of it.

    Sam Shama thinks that the more THINGS people have the better their lives are.

    This is consistent with Jerry Muller’s teaching in “How the Jews Created Capitalism” — Muller says that in the 30 years war in Europe, people – “Christians” vs “Christians” — killed each other in very large numbers over whose god, and whose religious beliefs, ensured salvation, a good life.

    Jews, having relatively recently arrived in the Netherlands from Spain, looked on the situation and said, You’re both wrong: Attaining wealth ensures ‘the good life;” attaining wealth — lots of things, robust GDP, a chicken in every garage* — that’s what ensures ‘salvation.’

    Sam Shama is a high priest of this religion that worships GDP; he’s willing to extend GDPness to Palestinians — under Israeli control.

    So much for the US claims that people want FREEDOM! Autonomy! Self-determination!
    I suspect Sam does not possess neural pathways that can process such concepts.

    He calls Shamir’s essay a “Fine Piece.”
    I could be wrong — imo Shama missed Shamir’s point by about 180 degrees.
    I think Shamir & Gideon Levy are simpatico; Shama and Shamir — and Levy — occupy different planets.

    Poor sad Sam Shama.
    Born a man, died an economist.

    _________
    *(A community in Ohio is engaged in a contentious debate over whether or not chickens may be kept in urban neighborhoods)

    • Agree: FB
  17. Heh says:

    I question the premise of the author. GDP per capita in the West Bank is still 10X or more lower than in Israel proper. Yes, there is a building boom but there’s one in India as well. Doesn’t mean that a country is rich. WB is still controlled by Fatah which is all but domesticated by Israel.

  18. bjondo says:

    palestinians have all the white phosphorus their little tummies can hold.
    palestinians have all the skunk water they can drink
    palestinians dont need to bother going to the bathroom. jew shit and urine provided by jew.
    palestinians dont need no stinking home to clutter land they no longer have or will soon lose.
    above all palestinians dont need an enemy with spitting jew all around.

    one state – palestine for palestinians.
    jew can return to land fill in new jersey.
    roll around in ecstatic joy.
    no one but jew as far as jew can see.

    well,
    there are the jersey goys for servants and the belly crawling cuomos to make happiness total.

  19. L.K says:

    Absolutely ridiculous article;

    Yeah, Shamir, it’s quite the life being a Palestinian in “Israel”… even better in the occupied West Bank…

    Except it ISN’T.

    Abby Martin Exposes Zionism & Israel on Joe Rogan Podcast

    American Jewish woman who spent time in the West Bank

    The illegal Zionist entity called Israel should be dismantled.

    The never ending zionist machinations are not only a threat to the M.E but to the world.

    The ongoing & forever fraudulent ‘war on terror’ is all of their making.

  20. neutral says:
    @reiner Tor

    the way the South Africans gave up theirs

    There was pretty much no choice in this matter, the whole world hated the whites in South Africa and a full economic blockade was in place. Now compare this to Israel where the jews can buy politicians to pass laws to make it illegal to boycott or even say anything bad about Israel.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @llloyd
  21. I was intrigued by the positive perspective of mutual happiness. I thought that is interesting.

    But as i read further, I have to conclude that the author is confusing subtle acceptance with happiness. After-all, Palestine could modernize without the occupation. It’s similar to blacks accepting jim crow, red lining, segregation etc . . . they adjust to it and consider the alternatives – it could worse.

    That is not the same thing as contentedness in lieu of justice and fair play. I would be the first to cheer f Israel acted with due haste to get out of the occupied territories in accordance with the actual agreements, stopped moving entire cities into the occupied territories and and good grief, stop bull dozing entire homes for criminal acts — that’s bizarre — might want to consider transferring the property over —

    So, I have to hold back my full exuberance of the gentile (genteel) outlook here. Israel has every right to exist. But if I am going to take the Balfour observations/intents seriously, it applies to about six various ethnicities occupying the region – they have a right to exist as well, even to have their own territory.

    Good for the goose . . . and all that. I am ever mindful of God’s promises, but then a close look at those promises are related to Israel behaving as ordained and instructed by the God of those promises — that man all of the Torah, not convenient tropes that meet material ambitions.

  22. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    It’s a fine piece, for it simply and truthfully describes the real living conditions and aspirations of the populace in the WB and Israel. They are getting on just fine, and I suspect would have little use for windbags offering wind instead of work, income, roads, healthcare etc. It matters little who is or is not ‘sympatico’. My economic opinions carry a bias in facts.

    I remain an economist; quite alive and suggest you offer your services to nations which might have you as their pre-eminent producer of gross national wind.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  23. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Hmm, something about this piece does not feel right… I smell deceit.

  24. skrik says:
    @Z-man

    grudgingly accepted the 67 borders

    If I may, a ‘theoretical or academic’ discussion; *NO* Palestinian may surrender their *inalienable* rights; see UDHR:

    Article 3.
    • Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
    Article 17.
    • (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
    • (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

    Now, that’s ‘the law’ as I understand it, but when I was much younger, there was a ‘radio show’ which had in its title something like: “Possession is 9/10ths of the law.”

    In our current ‘real world,’ this translates into something like: “Might makes right.” Of course it doesn’t/can’t in the long run, and some time or other, the sand will leak [or be blown] out of the illegitimate entity’s hourglass.

    Sooo, to your “accurate surface to surface missiles (or drones) that can strike Netanyahu’s girlfriends apartment,” I offer ‘something new’ I heard of only recently, namely a *reverse* Samson Option.

    That’d only be ‘fair,’ as in ‘live by the sword, die by the sword.’ Some time or other, some ‘terrist’ will get their hands on an appropriate ‘device’ and it’ll be ‘all over, red rover.’

    Fazit: The aggressive alien invaders (heirs and successors) have a choice; face inevitable annihilation OR [since they seem incapable of sharing], return whence they came, or to anywhere else where the locals may voluntarily accept their presence, but ONLY IF they actually learn AND practice civilised behaviour. rgds

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  25. AndrewR says:
    @the Supreme Gentleman

    When the US annexed much of northern Mexico, it did not expel the people who had been living there.

    The descendents of the people who lived in central and southern Mexico 170 years ago do not have a magical right to move to the US simply because part of the US used to be part of Mexico.

    And why would any “alt-right” goyim necessarily “strongly object” to an “anti-racist” critique of Israeli policy? I imagine I speak for almost everyone on this site when I say that I couldn’t care less if “anti-racists” start dominating Israeli politics. I just don’t want them dominating American politics.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Alden
    , @Ron Unz
  26. RudyM says:
    @the Supreme Gentleman

    The logic of the piece could easily be applied towards criticizing white rule in South Africa and Rhodesia or contesting the moral legitimacy of European claims on territory in North America and Australasia. (E.g. “America stole most of its southwest from Mexico in a war of aggression, so Amerindian descended Mexicans should have a moral right of return to the modern day American southwest”.) These are obviously views that left-wing critics of Israel would be quite sympathetic to, but ones that alt-right leaning critics (i.e. many/most UR readers and writers) would find strongly objectionable.

    But as you say, this site is not exclusively alt-right. (Some of Unz’s own views diverge from the typical alt-right line.)

    I used to be bothered by the question of how the United States acquired the Southwest. While I do think it was an unjust war fought on false premises, I don’t have immense sympathy for Mexico which only owned that land thanks to Spanish conquest. There was no ethnic cleansing involved. I would like to think that if hundreds of thousands of Mexicans had been expelled from the Southwest in the process of its becoming United States territory, I would support a right of return.

    In short, the creation of modern Israel involved a much more blatant injustice. If it were anyone but Jews doing it, I think it would have been nipped in the bud a long time ago.

    As for European conquest of North America, that’s a lot less defensible (than the specific Southwest example). But my family has been in what became the United States for over 250 years, so this is what I have, not a European homeland. Maybe this is just an illustration of how it’s always a different story when something affects you directly. I don’t want to see an end to the United States, despite its imperial predations around the world.

    I supported an end to Apartheid in South Africa and haven’t changed my mind about that, although I admit I now have doubts about my own understanding of its history. I would like to see proof of how uninhabited the area actually was or wasn’t. I am a bit skeptical, given the lies that are told about Palestine’s barrenness prior to the Jewish invasion.

  27. @Greg Bacon

    Why are settlements on land stolen before 1967 legal, and stolen after 1967 illegal ?

    • Replies: @bjondo
    , @Greg Bacon
  28. @neutral

    These are valid points, but I still hope Israel will not be forced to go that way (e.g. if American Jews decide that they no longer like Israel – something which I find unlikely, but not impossible).

    By the way I think it’s always misleading to say that was “no choice”. There usually is a choice, especially for a nuclear power. The majority of the South African population (especially the Afrikaners) supported the regime (but were betrayed by their leadership), and of course they had nuclear weapons. They were also self-sufficient in food and could produce fuel from coal (which they had a lot).

    Short of an outright military intervention, if there had been a will (on the part of the political leadership), there could’ve been a way. See North Korea, where it’s unclear how much the population supports the leaders, but they certainly seem able to defy basically the whole world (and it now starts to include even China and to some extent even Russia).

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @polaco
  29. @Sam Shama

    You write as one who has never experienced deprivation, Sam; which is not a bad thing.

    I recall reading “Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich,” and just finished a novel titled “The Shadowlands,” about a Bulgarian violinist who was caught up in Communist tyrannies in his country. He spent many years inCommunist labor camps, and survived starvation, brutality, lack of GDP, separation from wife and child by drawing on the music that he knew and the discipline he had developed in mastering that music. People can survive tremendous hardship and deprivation — my parents did, and do so with grace and dignity.

    You seem to take pleasure in calling names and belittling, but you do not address the major point that Levy — and I think, Shamir — was getting at: that if you take away a people’s dignity, and autonomy, they may be surrounded with the trappings of prosperity — in the US we have been trained to call it “The American Dream” — but many slaves in USA were actually well-fed and (relatively) well-housed and cared for; that did not make them fully free, self-directing men and women.

    Why did you not address that element of Levy’s talk, and of my response to you?

    Why is Israeli control over Palestinian life — well-upholstered with shoppes and restaurants — any different from any other form of autonomy – constricting control of one people over another people?

    Jews in most of the concentration camps had better food, living conditions, clothing and medical care than most German soldiers and, after the firebombing, than a large portion of the German people. Should it be insisted that those Jews were in a good situation?

    Sound economic functioning is important for a people to live a fruitful life, and your expertise in managing such is valued. But your statement,

    We are moving toward an arrangement where Jew and Arab will live in peace and prosperity, guided and protected by the criteria and framework crafted by the State of Israel. It is helpful to note in this context that Hezbollah, that vile terrorist organisation is losing the war for hearts and minds; for simple economic aspirations trump all else.

    Prometheus begs to differ.

    “Simple economics” seduce the simple-minded, but 70 years of resistance to oppression suggests that the Palestinian people have more complex aspirations.

    • Replies: @Sherman
  30. Sherman says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Hey Chuck

    Your parents “survived tremendous hardship and deprivation”.

    Are these the same parents who taught you to respect Jews?

    Sherm

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  31. bjondo says:
    @jilles dykstra

    none of the squattelments are legal
    the entire jew entity is an abomination

  32. @Sherman

    thank goodness.

    I thought you’d never pop up with your obnoxious “parents — respect — Jews–” tedium.

    Y’see Sherm, I have something in common with Abe Foxman: both of us were raised by Catholics, who taught us respect.

    In me, it took.

    Abe?
    Not so much.

    now go f yourself.

    • Replies: @Sherman
  33. Dr. X says:
    @reiner Tor

    I don’t particularly like Jews, and I do have at least a modicum of sympathy for the Palestinians and Arabs in general…

    I don’t particularly like Jews or Palestinians, and I couldn’t care less about either side. A pox on both their houses. They’re both represented by extreme, arrogant religions that both think they have the moral right to kill the other side.

    George Washington warned us against getting involved in this kind of thing in his Farewell Address. So did John Quincy Adams in his “Monroe Doctrine” speech.

    The Founders had it right. Whatever happens over there happens over there.

    Not. Our. Problem.

    • Agree: German_reader
  34. Sherman says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I doubt your parents taught you any “respect”.

    Children brought up with decent values usually don’t grow up to become bald headed neo-Nazi screwballs.

    Sherm

    • Replies: @Wally
  35. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra

    Someone already gave one answer, that ALL Israeli settlements are illegal, but I’m being generous, sticking to what the UN had worked out when they helped spawn that Apartheid nightmare.

  36. skrik says:

    Children brought up with decent values usually don’t grow up to become

    vile ethnic cleansers via genocidal supreme international criminality. Try looking up Jabotinsky’s ‘Iron Wall’ rationalisation; he wrote of ‘colonisation by force.’ Try looking up Herzl; he wrote of ‘process of expropriation’ = not trying to buy but steal from the get-go. Then try looking up the origin of the vast majority of European Jews = Khazars (Turco-Finn by race, self-converted to Judaism as a nation about 690 A.D.) on the steppes somewhere north of the Caucasus = not even Semitic in any way. Just an unbroken chain of lies and crimes. That include you, Sherm?

    Err … of course, one should not do ad hominem, but Sherm started it: “bald headed neo-Nazi screwball!”

  37. Wally says:
    @AndrewR

    Indeed.

    The US offered citizenship to all Mexicans in the purchased land that was formerly part of Spain.

  38. n230099 says:

    “…I loved the good old Palestine of private stone houses amid vineyards, and Palestinian peasants always at work with their olive trees and springs. It is gone….”

    Yeah well…welcome to earth. Those of us that remember Phoenix, AZ in the 50s with the oranges and to the south cotton, adobe buildings and a laid back feel to the ‘cowboy’ ambience ‘feel your pain’…but things are what they are.

  39. Wally says:
    @Sherman

    We obviously know what a Zionist is, but what is a “neo-Nazi”?

    http://www.codoh.com

  40. Alden says:
    @Sam Shama

    “We are moving toward an arrangement where Jew and Arab will live in peace and prosperity, ”

    Paid for by the American taxpayers.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  41. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    West Bank, Palestine(Bethlehem and Hebron) through the eyes of a food vlogger on YouTube. At about 6:39 he gets a tour of the wall by car with his Palestinian tour guide:

    Life doesn’t look that bad for the family in the video. They are also a lot more modern than I thought. I thought the women would be wearing burqas, not t-shirts and shorts.

    How is it that the Jews in the US support the separation wall in Israel but not the wall with Mexico? Double standards much?

    The same vlogger also visited Israel. This is the first time I’ve seen any videos of Israel. These are good quality but not highly produced professional videos so you get to see a lot of street scenes, more real than most highly edited TV shows like Bourdain on CNN. A few things surprised me:
    1. A lot of people I didn’t expect to see live in Israel – Tunisians, Moroccans, Palestinians, Iraqi Jews etc. Most of the people he encountered in these videos look more Arab than Jewish.
    2. Tel Aviv is a lot more modern than Jerusalem
    3. Everything is so expensive in Israel. Each meal he ate costs over US$100.

    Food in Jerusalem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLmNLrog6dQ
    Tel Aviv food tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ1dPdRHxME
    Palestinian food in Nazareth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtVPOGbPSng

    You can certainly see the difference in living standards between Palestine and Israel, esp. comparing Hebron to Tel Aviv. From an average tourist’s standpoint, life doesn’t seem so bad for all in Israel and Palestine, but I’m sure it’s quite different when you live there. Some people are happy if they get to eat a good meal everyday, others need more, like better economic opportunities, more freedom etc.

  42. Alden says:
    @AndrewR

    The part of the US that was once part of Mexico belonged to Mexico for exactly 26 years except for Texas which belonged to Mexico for only 14 years. 26 years of Mexican rule compared to 169 years of the US and 79 years of Spain and thousands of years of Indian rule is nothing.

  43. Ron Unz says:
    @AndrewR

    When the US annexed much of northern Mexico, it did not expel the people who had been living there.

    Actually, as I just noted in a comment on a different thread, there’s one extremely important aspect of the American seizure of territory from Mexico in that war that receives far too little attention.

    It’s certainly true that if we include Texas, California, and all the other territories, America ended up grabbing almost half of Mexico’s land area in the aftermath of the Mexican-American War. However, I think the lands involved only contained something like 1% of Mexico’s population, and almost all of that sliver of population was located in a few pieces of New Mexico. The total land was certainly vast, but most of it was basically empty desert occupied by wild Indian tribes, not exactly the world’s richest prize.

    • Replies: @amazed
    , @Mark Green
  44. @SolontoCroesus

    Sam Shama thinks that the more THINGS people have the better their lives are.

    how is this a criticism? isn’t that normal? that is called living standard isn’t it?

    you can criticized alot about sam but not this statement.

    everyone in the world would prefer it if israelis can stop burning, killing, and taking over palestinian lands. if they can both live together as a country, great.

    israel better solve this problem soon. and as technology advances, it becomes much, much easier for something horrific to happen in the future.

    imagine israel/palestine becoming one country and both israelis and palestinians living good lives?

  45. druid says:
    @reiner Tor

    Israel and South Africa are not similar in this instant.
    This is a shitty apologists’ article

  46. @Astuteobservor II

    Sam Shama thinks that the more THINGS people have the better their lives are.

    how is this a criticism? isn’t that normal? that is called living standard isn’t it?
    you can criticized alot about sam but not this statement.

    Personally, I’m not sure it’s normal to maintain that the more things one has the better their lives are. Somebody’s gotta dust all that stuff.
    – but seriously — the criticism is an attempt to say You can’t substitute Things — even overall prosperity — for a lack of autonomy. I think the Trump administration is laying a similar argument on the Chinese: you may have your economic house in order, but you are repressing your people; you are violating their human rights.

    You’re absolutely correct:

    israel/palestine becoming one country and both israelis and palestinians living good lives — Imagine!!

    Yes, why not?

    In fact, the criticism of Sam’s comment may have been harsh in another way: Sam wrote:

    We are moving toward an arrangement where Jew and Arab will live in peace and prosperity, guided and protected by the criteria and framework crafted by the State of Israel.

    What is the composition of the State of Israel?
    If the expectation is that “Israel is the Jewish state,” to the extent that only Jews “craft the criteria and framework” of the State in which Jews and Palestinians live, then what you have is Jews ruling Palestinians.

    Does Sam envision a fully participatory State of Israel?

  47. @the Supreme Gentleman

    To bang on about this a bit; inviting the former subjects of the ahau lords of the Yucatan, and genocidal Aztec warlords to occupy Maine or Idaho is no different than the Great Rulers (wise and generous, may God preserve them) of the European Union inviting the entire unemployed (and unemployable) peasantry of say .. Turkey .. to exert their claim of right on Ireland, or Spain, never mind Vienna.
    Because people a bit like them used to live there. In the 6th millennium BC.

    War is coming.

    • Replies: @iffen
  48. Art says:

    Israeli citizens are not allowed by the Israeli government to enter Palestinian territories.

    Fat – but not free – entangled in hate — now that describes the Jews.

    There is an artificial separation of peoples in Israel – it is a lie to say that it can be sustained.

    To keep this separation going on and on, the Jew people need to hate the Palestinians. Every Jew in the world is being dragged into hating humanity.

    How can this end good?

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. The Jew treadmill of lies and endless laws, always catches up to them.

  49. amazed says:
    @Ron Unz

    “Wild Indian Tribe”, what is that???

  50. iffen says:
    @Expletive Deleted

    genocidal Aztec warlords to occupy Maine or Idaho

    The Aztecs had many tributary states, but I don’t believe either Maine or Idaho was one.

    War is coming.

    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    Not with a bang but a whimper.

    RIP T.S. Eliot

  51. @SolontoCroesus

    What is the composition of the State of Israel?
    If the expectation is that “Israel is the Jewish state,” to the extent that only Jews “craft the criteria and framework” of the State in which Jews and Palestinians live, then what you have is Jews ruling Palestinians.

    Does Sam envision a fully participatory State of Israel?

    if he was talking about a jewish state, then you have a very good reason to criticize him with. it is not about autonomy but about taking over other people’s lands and forcing the original owners to live the way the invaders dictate.

    Trump administration is laying a similar argument on the Chinese: you may have your economic house in order, but you are repressing your people; you are violating their human rights.

    this is about as stupid as the ideological arguments in 2017. you can’t be bombing the world for 50 years and talk like that with a serious face. the other party would think you are moron. or think you think they are morons for believing in the bullshit in 2017.

    one can only be philosophical when the material needs are met and you have free time. most of the world don’t have this luxury.

  52. Kiza says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Yes, I agree that some people were reading this article selectively.

    When I was reading that same part about economic prosperity in the occupied territories, I was thinking – most Palestinians, after eating their economic prosperity sandwich, will want all the less tangible non-material things, such as freedom and self-determination, societal fairness and equality. Not only is the apparent economic prosperity false, obtained on the backs of US and EU tax-payers, then also it is not even close to a permanent solution for the apartheid society.

    I do not blame Israel Shamir for reflecting his impressions, but he could have done a much better job of putting it into context (he has tried a little).

    As to tourism boom in the occupied lands, wait till the Israeli/US/Saudi war on Lebanon and Hesbollah picks up …

    • Replies: @nsa
  53. @reiner Tor

    I would say if, or rather when, the American people reach a tipping point of understanding of the true degree of manipulation, deception and betrayal perpetrated against them by many self-identified Jews, the descendants of those refugees and migrants offered sanctuary in the US, then things will get mighty ugly and fast for all Jews and while the perpetrators will once again flee the innocents will remain to suffer the consequences. Terrible consequences. This cycle will rinse and repeat as it always has until those driven by their perceived tribal and clannish loyalties open their eyes and become fully human aided by truth.

  54. @skrik

    Futurist William Knoke in his book Bold New World predicted a dirty bomb being used to render the area uninhabitable as a simple and cost effective Sampson option to be deployed by the Palestinians should total defeat and loss of hope eventuate.

    • Replies: @skrik
  55. @Astuteobservor II

    A lot of people in the world would prefer it if Israelis would stop meddling and interfering in the political business of their nations, the US, Canada, UK, Australia are just some who come to mind and there are many many more.

  56. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I envision a meritocratic state with no “affirmative action” nonsense for Arabs and minorities. None extended for the ultra-religious either.

    It shall be a state offering equality of opportunity, not outcome. It is today, engaged in subsidising and promoting Arabs from cradle to grave. This needs to be stopped, given the poor record of America which has managed to produce a terrible, dependent class. This will almost certainly have the effect of re-balancing birth rates, since poverty induces prolificacy.

    The framework will offer education as a fully paid investment by the State. No significant tuition for those who qualify for college. A single-payer health care system. The monetary policy geared to encourage innovation and entrepreneurship. State and private industry working collaboratively on scientific research. Funding for the Classical Arts. A Housing finance system modeled after the U.S; one, with better stabilisers built in [a long discussion, not for this entry].

    On the matter of political participation: only those who pass a civics test shall be allowed to vote on economic and social matters which require a referendum. On the general elections, one man, one vote applies [this may be modified to include a minimum level of tax incidence]

    The state might take the shape of a bi-national entity, but that has to evolve, if it does, naturally, over time.

    In a bi-national model, Israel will be solely responsible for the defense of the nation.

  57. Sam Shama says:
    @Alden

    This is a fatheaded statement, easily dispatched to the rubbish bin. Even if one biased the results to favour this silly argument, the results will become abundantly clear upon performing a simple set of calculations.

    Take EVERY year’s loan guarantee and “aid” given to Israel from the very start and apply the income and growth multipliers prevailing for that period. Then sum them ALL up. What you’d arrive at is a relatively paltry figure compared to what Israel earns in ONE YEAR, currently standing at $319b, with a 4% growth rate.

    • Replies: @hyperbola
  58. polaco says:
    @reiner Tor

    I’m not sure North Korea would survive a week without China. The Chinese are the only reason it has survived for so long. SA couldn’t count on such a large neighbor for trade and political support, commies from all around the world were working against her, the country was totally alone. That said, I agree that every country should pursue and give its own interests the same high priority Israel gives its own.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  59. nsa says:
    @Kiza

    The Shamir argument distilled down to its essence: the palestinian trash should be grateful for whatever they have under jooie rule……just as the bovine american white, brown, and black trash is infinitely grateful for whatever they have under jooie rule.

    • Agree: L.K
  60. biz says:
    @amazed

    Considering that the annual US aid to Israel (which comes right back to the US as purchases of US military equipment) amounts to less than 2% of Israel’s GDP, then yes, I’d say the prosperity and advanced economy achieved there in the midst of a bunch of backward failed states is impressive.

  61. llloyd says: • Website
    @neutral

    I don’t think many people hated the whites in South Africa. They were themselves dismantling apartheid which had its roots in the colonial era. The struggle against them was purely ideological because they defied the international bank Rothschilds system. The international economic boycott against them was orchestrated through the UN bureaucracy. I don’t recall any politician in the West promising the boycott to a cheering constituency. BDS is the exact opposite being at least initially entirely grassroots by public left and right disgusted with actual cruelty inflicted by Zionism. And under ferocious sneaky attack by Zionist supporters.

  62. Thank God we took over Texas, CA and the rest of Mexico’s territories in the US. Can you imagine if we hadn’t? All of the Southwest would’ve been a total banana republic failed state like Mexico, except maybe 10x worse since it’s so much bigger. Mexico can’t even govern whatever land they have left, imagine if they have to govern a country 2 to 3x bigger.

    In fact, I think Mexico today would’ve been much better off had the US taken over all of Mexico way back when. Would’ve saved us a lot of money today dealing with all their illegal migration, poverty, drug smuggling and high incarceration rate. At a minimum they’d all be speaking English instead of that god forsaken tongue. Totally retarded language. When was the last time a Spanish speaking person invented anything earth shattering?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  63. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Z-man

    I can understand why leftists might favor that sort of one-state solution, but I can’t understand why anyone on the right would. For the most part, Jews, Muslims and Christians live in peace in Israel now. Everyone gets to vote, run for office, etc., and AFAIK, sectarian violence between Israelis is pretty rare. It works for the same reason that America used to work: there’s a dominant majority, that’s in a strong enough position, and is generous enough, to be liberal toward its minority citizens.

    In contrast, a single state comprised of Israel plus the Arabs on the West Bank and Gaza would be more like the America of today: fractious, divisive, etc., with a growing coalition standing in opposition to the nation’s founding stock. Why would any paleocon advocate that, except out of spite?

  64. @polaco

    That was true in the 1990s, and perhaps still into the ’00s or even until a few years ago, but not anymore. North Korea now has to pay market prices for all of its imports (and so has to export all the raw materials it can produce to pay for them), and has now been under a low level Chinese embargo for some time. Since this summer the embargo was geared up, so that now North Korea is prohibited from selling anything to China, and Chinese banks are now forbidden from doing business with North Korean firms or individuals. This means that much of North Korea’s foreign trade is now essentially an expensive smuggling operation. When you read something like “in spite of the embargo, North Korea’s trade with China increased nevertheless”, it’s just transactions between the North Koreans and Chinese private firms. Moreover, over the past few months it’s just North Korean imports which are growing (because the North Koreans spend all the money to accumulate reserves as long as they still can), not North Korean exports (which are now mostly under embargo). It’s obviously not sustainable, and eventually North Korean imports will collapse, too. Yet the North Koreans show no sign of giving up: they will gear up fuel manufacturing (from coal), their agriculture is primitive (but is not much dependent on imports of fuel or anything), and they essentially produce everything they need (except some luxury items for their elites). These are things which South Africa was also capable of (they had plenty of coal and other raw materials, and they could produce most of everything they needed, they also had nuclear weapons, etc.), and the white South African population (at least the Afrikaners) was still behind the regime. So there was no reason to give up that easily, other than the treason of the white South African elite (mostly Jews and Anglos), and the treason of the Afrikaner leadership.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  65. @biz

    They also receive technologies, and low-interest loans (for example a lot of Israeli government bonds are guaranteed by the US federal government), which is also something. I recently read about the F-35 program that even though Israel’s F-35 purchase is financed by US taxpayers, they still have an offsetting agreement. (“The Israeli F-35s helmet-mounted displays will also be manufactured in Israel.[66] This is part of the Offset agreement provided to Israel, in spite of the purchase being entirely funded by American aid.[67]“) I’m not sure how many other Israeli weapons imports are similarly offset, but at least regarding the F-35, you cannot exactly say that it goes “right back to the US as purchases of US military equipment”. At least not all of it.

    Of course, I’m sure many other countries couldn’t have built the advanced economy Israel has even with this aid.

  66. @Another Realist

    We certainly need to control our borders — no doubt.

    But Mexico is raked 11th of just beneath Great Britain as a developed nation. In a matter of 20 years since NAFTA or less (?) Her GDP increased increased nearly 500%. What plagues Mexico the feudal system of governance that has never ventured far off her “democratic “.

    She has plenty of wealth and our immigration policy undermines that legitimate reconciliation with capitalism’s means of wealth distribution and democratic reform.

    I may be over reacting here — but we did not take Mexican territory. she unwittingly gave it away by engaging in the same careless immigration non-enforcement we are leaning to today.

  67. @the Supreme Gentleman

    Jews have a very different definition of anti-racism than right thinking Americans.

    In the US, pro-constitution people believe that anti-racism is equal protection of the laws for everyone.

    Jews by their actions and words believe anti-racism to be government entitlements for protected class groups.

  68. @reiner Tor

    North Korea is prohibited from selling anything to China

    That’s an exaggeration, but the embargo now covers most of North Korea’s export commodities.

  69. @biz

    Considering that the annual US aid to Israel (which comes right back to the US as purchases of US military equipment) amounts to less than 2% of Israel’s GDP, then yes, I’d say the prosperity and advanced economy achieved there in the midst of a bunch of backward failed states is impressive.

    You forgot to mention the numerous low interest loans granted to Israel by the US that are quietly forgiven by a cowardly US government.

    Curiously, the American broadcast mafia media fail to mention these quietly forgiven American loans to Israel too.

  70. @biz

    then yes, I’d say the prosperity and advanced economy achieved there in the midst of a bunch of backward failed states is impressive.

    Neat scheme you’ve got going there, biz: cause all the states in the region to become failed states and Voila, you be the star.

    Go Israel!
    WE BE Number 1!
    WE BE Number 1!

    Imagine that: Jews, the masters of business, biz, the inventors of capitalism, couldn’t fill a piggy bank if they didn’t have some big bad superpower destroying all their competition.

    Jews can only succeed when the competition is flattened, using US institutions and $$ to flatten them.

    Jews have been orgasmic to destroy Iran’s economy because it poses competition to Israel. Israel was best buddies w/ Iran for 30 years, sucking at the Persian teat, until it all came tumbling down. Khomeini entered and Jews exited, but Israel still slurped at the Iranian trough, selling weapons to Khomeini all thru the Iran – Iraq war.

    That revenue stream dried up, AIPAC held Bill Clinton’s hand in 1995 while he signed the Executive Order imposing the first sanctions on Iran; the EO became the D’Amato Amendment; both were written by AIPAC.

    When Clinton signed the EO, he cited Iran’s “nuclear threat.”

    Pres. Clinton to AIPAC 1995: “Iran is bent on building nuclear weapons …. I thank you for long history of calling attention to Iran’s campaign of terror”

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4544995/pres-clinton-aipac-1995-iran-bent-building-nuclear-weapons-thank-long-history-calling-attention

    “The American Israel Public Affairs Committee’s chief Middle East analyst, Keith Weissman, told the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, that AIPAC had actually written the two D’Amato bills. It’s a thoroughly believable claim. AIPAC writes a lot of legislation and gets it passed, though the organization’s lawyers are usually not so sloppy in their work.”
    https://www.wrmea.org/1995-july-august/clinton-s-executive-order-on-iran-taking-it-from-aipac-and-al-gore.html

    The 1995 sanctions & subsequent D’Amato amendment meant that a US corporation had to forego a lucrative contract for work on Iranian oil fields (the Chinese picked up the contract).

    Israelis were delighted to impact Iran’s oil industry, even if just for a few years: Iran and Israel had formed an oil shipping concern — Iranian oil freighted to Eilat, where it entered pipelines Israel had stolen from Italians in a facility financed by Rothschild; from there, Israel took what it needed and sold to Europe.
    That business arrangement fell apart w/ the Revolution; Israel failed to remit amounts owed, Iran sued, and a case for millions of dollars ground through courts in Switzerland (iirc) for 15 years or more, before an arbitration panel handed down an order that Israel pay. Ever since, the Israeli entity has been dodging; what, pay our just debts? That’s so Leona Helmsley!

    Report: Swiss Court Orders Israel to Pay Iran $1.1 Billion in Oil Pipeline Dispute
    Israel says won’t pay Iran oil pipeline venture debt, regardless of court’s ruling in dispute dating back to before the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
    Haaretz and Aluf Benn May 20, 2015

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.657394

    That was just the beginning. AIPAC has expanded its franchise ever since. Ed Royce might as well be Israel’s mafia hit man in charge of ensuring that Iran becomes a “failed state.” The Orange County, CA representative has turned into a monster, gloating for the cameras on how successfully sanctions on Iran have strangled Iran’s economy. https://www.c-span.org/video/?200726-3/us-policy-toward-iran

    The D’Amato Amendment was so pre-9/11; in 2004, Stuart Levey created the Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) https://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/offices/Pages/Office-of-Foreign-Assets-Control.aspx and became the first Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence within the United States Department of the Treasury. OFAC functions by blackmailing banks and corporations in other nations, , imposing massive fines if they do business with Iran.

    SEPTEMBER 10, 2013
    Treasury’s War Juan Zarate talked about his book, Treasury’s War: The Unleashing of a New Era of Financial Warfare, in which he discusses the Treasury Department’s war on terror following 9/11. The Treasury Department uses various means to put financial strangleholds on terrorist groups and enemy states around the world. https://www.c-span.org/video/?314958-1/treasurys-war

    Beg, borrow, steal from others to flow revenues into your gangster hideout;
    Cripple and destroy the competition — or get some other dumb boobs to do it for you —

    That’s how Israel became such a “prosperous” and “advanced economy” achieved “in the midst of a bunch of backward failed states.”
    “Impressive” indeed.

    • Replies: @Sherman
  71. Sherman says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Did your parents teach you to respect Israel also or just Jews?

    Sherm

  72. Emanuel says:
    @reiner Tor

    Give up their country??? The country belongs to the Palestinians. I am disappointed by anyone agreeing with the above comment.

  73. George says:

    “Children of hard-working peasants work in the government offices of Ramallah.”

    I see the seeds of destruction. I doubt the Palestinian Authority collects enough including remittances from abroad to pay for this. The government jobs exist as long EU and USA pay for it. There is reason to believe that EU and USA will not be able to in the near future. Check out pensiontsunami.com for hints as to a future US financial crisis, not to mention things like the failing healthcare system. Excess EU productivity will likely be eaten up by refugees and their own aged.

    I would point out that Israel is increasingly using the military and government as an employment program. At some point, the EU + USA will not be able to pick up the tab, and I bet China/Russia refuse out of principle. Then what?

  74. skrik says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    a dirty bomb being used to render the area uninhabitable

    Well, that would be the ‘Dog in the Manger’ Option and would not get the Ps what they want and actually by rights deserve, namely their land returned to them [good], plus reparations [better] and an apology [best]. There is a big incentive for Jews to ‘do the right thing;’ all their ‘fake news’ is coming back to bite them on their miserable arses.

    As well as ‘do no ad-hom,’ one cannot in reality blame ‘all Jews’ for the ‘supreme international’ Zionist crimes – but exactly because a) many/most Js identify as a tribe, and b) largely support the illegitimate Z-entity, then c) all Js *must* ‘wear some blame,’ on the simple principle that nobody can have things ‘both ways.’ Of course, Js place themselves on a precarious precipice anyway, being widely recognised as liars and cheats, with the ‘perfect storm’ of ethnic cleansing by genocidal methods morphing Palestine [= land never to be legally Zs'] into an apartheid, racist, monster state. We can see the stirrings amongst the ‘rest of the world’ with the growing BDS movement; most proper-thinking people who can ‘escape’ the J-dominated MSM propaganda programming rightly find Israel to be utterly repugnant. rgds

    PS Researching ‘reverse Samson Option,’ I found an early use on July 25, 2010 here, but the most uses I found are ‘in here,’ namely a 1st three by Rurik then another three by nsa.

    A big problem I see is that the I/J/Z-plex will never willingly ‘bow’ to threats, but as Murphy knows, what can happen ultimately will; lacking Zs getting properly smart and agreeing to a just peace, a reverse Samson Option will, it seems, simply have to happen.

    Sun Tzu: “There is no instance of a nation benefiting from prolonged warfare.”

    Do Zs ever read Sun Tzu, I wonder?

  75. hyperbola says:
    @Sam Shama

    Stop lying. Ever single jewish man, woman and child in Israel had already cost Americans at least $500,000 per person by 2003. If we add in the costs of jew-wars in Iraq, Libya, Syria, …. since then, the price is now well over $1,000,000 per person.

    The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion

    https://www.wrmea.org/2003-june/the-costs-to-american-taxpayers-of-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-$3-trillion.html

    And that does not include the “hidden” costs of jewish robbery in the US.

    US-Israel Trade: Espionage, Theft and Secrets

    https://pulsemedia.org/2011/04/13/us-israel-trade-espionage-theft-and-secrets/

    On April 6, Grant F. Smith presented a comprehensive review of the US-Israel Free Trade Agreement to the Finance and Economics Council at the University of Rochester. Using a slide show of declassified documents and charts, Smith revealed how secret agreements and a joint Israeli embassy/AIPAC covert operation undermined US industries and the trade negotiating process.

    New quantitative analysis and disclosures reveal the US-Israel trade agreement is actually a $10 billion/year foreign aid program. Smith also discusses how major omissions in Dan Senor and Saul Singer’s 2009 Council on Foreign Relations book Start-up Nation: The Story of Israel’s Economic Miracle undermine their two major findings: that perpetual conflict gives Israel a comparative advantage and that the US should reinstate conscription in order to match Israel’s entrepreneurial output…..

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  76. Blake says:

    Palestinians never had it so good? Oh right. NOT

  77. Sam Shama says:
    @hyperbola

    A whole slew of crackpot claims based on U.S. spending related to her Middle East interests. I’ve seen all these numbers concocted by summing U.S. expenditures from motley sources and then magically presented as a bill at the door of Israel. Can you produce any serious academic economist who has even remotely written anything to bolster your loony claims?

    New quantitative analysis and disclosures reveal the US-Israel trade agreement is actually a $10 billion/year foreign aid program.

    New quantitative analysis. It is New! no less!

    All of these ex-agency “experts” make a great many claims, unsurprisingly to a captive, friendly, choir. One of them was asked by a GAO [general accounting office] representative some quite clinical questions on his “analysis”. Handwaving was mostly followed by silence.

    Do keep peddling your nonsense. The tinfoil hats need a steady supply.

    • Replies: @ANONymous
  78. ANONymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Shama

    This just in: Pot Calls Kettle Cracked.
    Details at 11 (or when Pot has finished making up high-sounding nonsense data, whichever comes first).

  79. L.K says:

    Regarding Palestine, Zionist shills and their useful idiots and assorted Muslim haters, try to make the issue about Islam. This is pure BS.

    The issue was and is land theft & ethnic cleansing. The Palestinians could all have been Christians – a minority of them still is – or atheists or whatever… they would still have suffered the same fate.

    The PLO was secular and it did not make any difference; they were still “terrorists”.

    As for terrorism, the Zionists have practiced both non-state as well as state terror, which incidentally, is much more destructive.

    State of Terror

    http://state-of-terror.net/

    https://www.amazon.com/State-Terror-Thomas-Suarez/dp/191107203X/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=HVA13RKMB768CH9ZV7BX&dpID=51TNXvvAGML&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

    Why has the Israel-Palestine ‘conflict’ endured for so long, with no resolution in sight?

    In this meticulously researched book, Thomas Suárez demonstrates that its cause is not the commonly depicted clash between two ethnic groups — Arabs and Jews — but the violent takeover of Palestine by Zionism, a European settler movement hailing from the era of ethnic nationalism.

    Tapping a trove of declassified British documents, much of which has never before been published, the book details a shocking campaign of Zionist terrorism in 1940s and 1950s Palestine that targeted anyone who challenged its messianic settler goals, whether the British government, the indigenous Palestinians, or Jews.

    Today’s seemingly intractable quagmire is that terror campaign’s unfinished business, an Israeli state driven by unrequited territorial designs and the dream of ethnic ‘purity’. The role of Zionist terrorism in establishing the Israeli state and perpetuating today’s conflict is laid bare in Suárez’s groundbreaking narrating of the unbroken historical record.

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @SolontoCroesus
  80. Kiza says:
    @L.K

    Here is a nice Royal add-on, a summary as clear as yours: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-12/outrage-follows-jaw-droppingly-shocking-1986-prince-charles-letter-blaming-mid-east-

    Please note how the truth is always anti-Semitic.

  81. @Ron Unz

    Hi Ron. It should also be remembered that the ‘Mexican land” that was ‘stolen’ by the US did not necessarily ‘belong’ to Mexico.

    The mostly-uninhabited land in what is now America’s Southwest was actually lived on and occupied by indigenous tribes such as the Navajo and Apache. Mexico, on the other hand, was an expanding imperial power that was ruled by white Spaniards. Even their language was a European import. Centuries earlier, these Spaniards conquered and looted the indigenous Aztec empire. These imperial bandits later named it Mexico. But this land was take by force. Later on, these Spaniards had no ‘right’ to claim the land north of the Rio Grande that had been lived on for centuries by the the Navajo, Apache and others.

    Therefore, actual ownership of this vast swath of land is highly debatable. Today, native Americans don’t believe that this disputed land ever ‘belonged’ to Mexico. That nativist claptrap is Mexican/Hispanic propaganda. And many native American now resent the influx of Spanish-speaking Latinos into the US. They’ve told me so themselves.

    One thing is certain: on this once mostly-empty land, America created an advanced civilization that is the envy of the world.

  82. A well-known French writer Nicolas Bonnal wrote a piece about this article. Here is the link

    https://nicolasbonnal.wordpress.com/2017/11/17/israel-shamir-le-neocapitalisme-detruit-ce-que-le-sionisme-navait-pas-pu-tuer/

    and here is its machine translation

    Israel Shamir: “Neocapitalism destroys what Zionism could not kill”

    This is the latest text from Israel Shamir, and it did not please the readers-commentators of Unz.com. I understand them because this precise and implacable text underlines an unavoidable fact: capitalist globalization eats everything and makes us pigs , to speak like the late mathematician and controversial Gilles Chatelet. The football supporter replaces everywhere the patriot, the tourist the pilgrim , the morfal the philosopher.

    There will no longer be a camp of good and evil camp, there will be no more white pawns and black pawns (the pawns will have a single color, as in the episode of the Prisoner), there will be that Bardeche named the race at a single price. Attention, do not take this text for a denial of the Palestinian cause. The stakes are worse. Dehumanization by capitalism, by globalization will lead to an end of all causes, except that of the commodity. The becoming-world of merchandise, said Debord, is first of all a becoming-commodity of the world.

    We are listening to Israel:

    “It never worked better. The minimum wage on the Israeli side is over $ 1,500; in two years it has increased from 4000 shekels to 5300 shekels. Inflation has not followed, despite the gloomiest predictions. The poor are no longer so poor, although some do not really know prosperity. Prices in local currency are stable. On the international stage, the shekel is high, very high (without reaching the record leaps of 2014), and the Treasury is fighting to prevent it from rising again. This is why prices seem rather expensive to foreigners. A sandwich, the modest falafel, both Israeli and Palestinian, with a drink, will cost you at least $ 10, and in Tel Aviv it will probably be prepared and served by an African refugee. A lunch menu costs about $ 20, a nice dinner, and you have to do it well in advance to find a table. So much for the Israeli side. On the Palestinian side, the same lunch will cost you a little less, about $ 15. The restaurants are crowded, the Israelis love the food and they eat all the time, stuffing themselves all the time . ”

    The tourist apocalypse is at the rendezvous in fake land. All for a selfie on the tomb machine:

    “Tourists flock to the Holy Land, as ever. Last October, all hotels in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv were full; No way to find a room for less than $ 200 a night even frankly far from everything. In Bethlehem and even in Hebron, it is the same, the people who fill the hotels are tourists en route to Jerusalem. There is the queue to enter the most important shrines that drain tourism, the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem and the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem; they line up for hours to worship the places of birth and burial of the Savior . Palestinians find themselves working in the building. Construction is booming everywhere in the West Bank. New homes grow on the smallest fallow land . Villages still poor yesterday like Imwas near Bethlehem and Taffuh near Hebron have become real cities of buildings of three or four floors, very similar to those coveted by the Israelis. ”

    This is real estate horror. The holy land becomes a fake land, like all paradise islands turned into a condominium for concrete troglodytes.

    “Israeli citizens are not allowed by the Israeli government to enter the Palestinian territories. It’s probably wise; if the Israelis could see how much their neighbors live in the same western-style environment, they would understand from the outset that the Wall is no longer needed, because there is hardly any difference between the two sides, and it would be the end of separatism that the Jews impose on themselves . ”

    Israel Shamir is obviously nostalgic for the old Palestine:

    “For my part, I can not applaud this convergence. I adored the good old Palestine with the stone houses in the middle of the vineyards, and the Palestinian peasants always taking care of their olive trees and their springs. It’s all over. In Dura al-karia, a charming village with wonderful fountains, the fields have been deserted. The children of the hard-working peasants work in the offices of the Ramallah government, and do not dream of returning to the fields. Wells are no longer cherished as the only source of life, they are preserved only as a memory of a bygone past. Neocapitalism demolished what Zionism could not kill . ”

    The great Palestinian writer and resistance Elias Sambar used to say that “Zionism makes absence”. It was on LCI with Edwy Plenel who did not know where to put!

    It is not Zionism that makes absence, it is the modern world, and in all its forms .

    I let the master conclude, because there it is really unsurpassable:

    “But this is the reality of the 21st century . The same evolution occurred in Provence and Tuscany on the other side of the sea ; while much worse things were happening nearby, in Syria and Iraq. People have become accustomed to this new reality, it is only us, the old romantics, to complain about it . ”

    True salvation will be inside.

    Here we are going to quote Bardèche:

    “The national differences will be gradually rolled … the States will be more than the administrative districts of a single Empire. And from one end to the other of the world, in cities perfectly similar since they will have been rebuilt after some bombings, will live under similar laws a bastard population, a race of slaves indefinable and dreary, without genius, without instinct, voiceless . The dehydrated man will reign in a hygienic world. Huge pickup bazaars will symbolize this race at a unique price. Moving sidewalks will roam the streets . They will carry each morning to their slave work the long line of men without face and they will bring them back in the evening. And it will be the promised land. “

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  83. vcragain says:

    While in general I support the concept of ‘live & let live’ ie all peoples should be tolerant of other peoples, there is a peculiar problem with Islamic populations because of the tendency of some of their ilk to become extremist & desire to either convert or kill those who refuse to become Muslim also ! This is reason enough for Israelis to keep the Muslim population under watch, and try to keep their own culture dominant in their own areas. I am very pleased to hear that the Palestinians are managing to ‘up’ their situation & hopefully that will continue & if so once they have tasted peace & prosperity maybe that will be enough to prevent extremism from erupting & spoiling this whole thing. Hope so ! I’m a Liberal in all things but this one subject of Islam, having ‘listened’ to stories from those who have left Islam and can tell you just what the base plan is for all who are not yet members – shall we just say that tolerance is not part of that grand plan ! While feeling a distinct loathing of the belief system itself, I regard Muslims themselves as being misguided rather than feeling any hatred towards them as humans – just like my feelings about Scientology & IT’S silly followers ! Things work out so well when humans relax on the subject of Religious beliefs !

  84. @the Supreme Gentleman

    I am unaware in which manner south africans gave up their country. In the midst of an open election the majority won.

    Perhaps, if the South hadn’t spent so much money, time and resources on keeping most of their country men and women out of the process, a lot would be different. But if you claim you are a democracy but act but act as a midevil fiefdom, democracy may come back to haunt you.

    Such is the case with colonial states and those states founded by colonials that engaged in apartheid.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Israel Shamir Comments via RSS