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Slavery had some good aspects for those chaps who had it rather good. A colonial setup is the next best thing to slavery, and it also holds its attraction for people who knew how to place themselves just below the sahibs and above the run-of-the-mill natives. The Hong Kong revolt is the mutiny of wannabe house niggers who feel that the gap between them and the natives is rapidly vanishing. Once, a HK resident was head and shoulders above the miserable mainland coolies; he spoke English, he had smart devices, he had his place in the tentacle sucking wealth out of the mainland, and some of that wealth stuck to his sweaty hands. But now he has no advantage compared to the people of Shanghai or Beijing. There is huge swelling of wealth in the big cities of Red China. The Chinese dress well, travel abroad, and they do not need HK mediation for dealing with the West. Beijing had offered HK a fair deal of [relative] equality; nothing would be taken from them, but the shrinking gap is not only unavoidable, but desirable, too.

However, HK had been the imperial bridgehead in China for too long. Its people were complicit, nay, willing partners in every Western crime against China, beginning with dumping opium and sucking out Chinese wealth. Millions of opium addicts, of ruined families and households nearly destroyed the Middle Kingdom, and each of them added to HK prosperity. The blood, sweat and labour of all China abundantly supplied the island. HK was the first of the Treaty Ports, and the last to return home. Its populace was not thoroughly detoxed; they weren’t ideologically prepared for a new life as equals.

Chairman Mao harboured hard suspicions against comprador cities, the cities and the people who prospered due to their collaboration with the imperialist enemy. He cleansed them with communist and patriotic re-education; recalcitrant compradors were sent to help peasants in far-away villages in order to reconnect with the people. Mao’s successors had a strong if misplaced belief in Chinese nationalism as a universal remedy; they thought the Chinese of HK, Macau and Taiwan would join them the moment the colonial yoke failed. This was an over-optimistic assessment. The imperialist forces didn’t give up on their former house slaves, and the moment they needed to activate them against independent China they knew where to look.

Their time came as the trade conflict between the US and China warmed up. The secret government of the West aka Deep State came to the conclusion that China is getting way too big for its boots. It is not satisfied with making cheap gadgets for Walmart customers. It is producing state-of-art devices that compete with American goods and, what’s worse, their devices are not accessible for NSA surveillance. The Chinese company Huawei came under attack; sanctions and custom duties followed in train. When the Yuan eased under the strain, the Chinese were accused of manipulating their currency. It is a strong charge: when Japan was attacked by the West in the 1990s and the Yen had eased as expected, this claim forced Tokyo to keep the Yen high and take Japan into a twenty-year-long slump. But China did not retreat.

Then the supreme power unleashed its well-practiced weapon: they turned to foment unrest in China and gave it a lot of space in the media. At first, they played up the fate of the Uygur Islamists, but it had little success. The Uygur are not numerous, they are not even a majority in their traditional area; their influence in China is limited. Despite headlines in the liberal Western media proclaiming that millions of Uygur are locked up in concentration camps, the impact was nil. No important Muslim state took up this cause.

The anniversary of Tiananmen came (in beginning of June) and went without a hitch. For good reason: the alleged ‘massacre’ is a myth, as the Chinese always knew and we know now for certain thanks to publication of a relevant US Embassy cable by Wikileaks. There were no thousands of students flattened by tanks. A very few died fighting the army, but China had evaded the bitter fate of the USSR. In China proper the event had been almost forgotten. A few participants retell of their experiences to Western audiences, but the desired turmoil did not materialise.

And then came the time for HK. It is an autonomous part of China; it had not been re-educated; there are enough people who remember the good days of colonial slavery. The actual spark for the mutiny, the planned extradition treaty, was exceedingly weak. For the last decade, HK became the chosen place of refuge for mainland criminals, for HK had extradition treaties with the US and Britain, but not with the mainland. This had to be remedied.

[The extradition treaty had played an important role in the Snowden case. An ex-CIA spy Edward Snowden decided to reveal to the world the extent of the NSA surveillance we all are subjects of. He chose the Guardian newspaper for his revelations, probably because of the Wikileaks precedent. When he gave an extended interview to the Guardian in HK, his identity had been revealed. The arrival of the US extradition request was imminent. The Chinese authorities told Snowden that they would have to send him to a US jail, to torture and death; that the extradition treaty left them no option in his case. Only the fast footwork of Julian Assange’s brave assistant Sarah Harrison prevented this grim finale and delivered Snowden to safe Moscow.]

ORDER IT NOW

While HK authorities were obliged to extradite Snowden, they weren’t and couldn’t extradite numerous criminals from the mainland. This was an obvious wrong that had to be urgently corrected, in the face of rising tension. And then the sleeping agents of the West woke up and activated their networks. They had practically unlimited funds, not only from the West, but also from the criminals who weren’t particularly impecunious and were afraid of extradition. After the demonstrations started, the Western media gave them maximum coverage, magnifying and encouraging the mutineers.

Hundreds of articles, leading stories and editorials in important newspapers cheered and encouraged the HK rebels. The People’s War Is Coming in Hong Kong, editorialised the New York Times today. An amazing fact (that is if you are a fresh arrival from Mars): the same newspaper and its numerous sisters paid no attention to the real People’s War raging in France, where the Gilets Jaunes have continued to fight for forty weeks against the austerity-imposing Macron regime. 11 people were killed and 2,500 injured in France, but the Western media just mumbled about the GJ antisemitism. Nothing new, indeed. The same media did not notice the one-million-strong demonstration against the US war on Iraq, paid little attention to Occupy Wall Street, disregarded protests against US wars and interventions. One hundred thousand people marching in New York would get no coverage if their purpose did not agree with the desires of the Real Government; and alternatively, three thousand protesters in Moscow with its 12 million population would be presented as the voice of the people challenging Vlad the Tyrant.

In its peculiar way, the media fulfills its purpose of keeping us informed. If mainstream media reports on something, it usually lies; but if media keeps mum, you can bet it is important and you are not encouraged to learn of it. It is especially true in case of popular protests. How do you know they are lying? – Their lips are moving.

The biggest lie is calling the HK rebels marching under the Union Jack, “pro-democracy”. These guys wish to restore colonial rule, to be governed by their strict but fair round-eyed overlords. It could be a bad or a good idea, but democracy it ain’t. The second biggest lie is the slogan Make Hong Kong Great Britain Again.

Hong Kong was never a part of Great Britain. This was never on offer, so it can’t become that again. Even the most adventure- and diversity-prone British politician won’t make seven million Chinese in a far-away territory British citizens with full rights, members of an imperfect but real British democracy. HK was a colony; this is what the marchers aspire to, to make HK colony again.

With all these differences taken into account, this is as true for Moscow demos as well. Moscow protesters dream of a Russia occupied by NATO forces, not of democracy. They believe that they, pro-Western, educated, entrepreneurial, would form the comprador class and prosper at the expense of hoi polloi. Mercifully, they aren’t plentiful: the Russians already tried to live under benign Western occupation between 1991 and 2000, when the IMF directed their finances and American advisers from Harvard ran the state machinery. Smart and ruthless Jews like Bill Browder, Boris Berezovsky, Roman Abramovich made their fortunes, but Russia was ruined and its people were reduced to poverty.

Not many Russians would like to return to the Roaring Nineties, but some would. It is a matter for the majority to prevent this aspiring minority to achieve its aspirations. Those who can’t take it will flee to Israel, as young Mr Yablonsky who discovered his Jewish roots after two nights of police detention. He landed in jail for violently fighting erection of a church in his town.

The Chinese will likewise sort out their HK affliction. It can be done if the government does not promise to restrict its counteractions to painless and bloodless measures. Only the real and imminent threat of painful and bloody suppression can make such measures unnecessary. Likewise, only the imminent threat of no-deal Brexit could bring some sense into the stubborn heads of the EU leaders. A state that is not ready to use force will necessarily fail, as did the Ukrainian state under Mr Yanukowych in 2014. Blood will be shed and the state will be ruined, if its rulers are too squeamish to stop the rebellion.

We can distinguish a real people’s rising and foreign-inspired interventions on behalf of the compradors. The first one will be silenced while the second will be glorified by the New York Times. It is that simple.

I would not worry overmuch for China. The Chinese leaders knew how to deal with Tiananmen, they knew how to deal with minority unrest, without unnecessary cruelty and without hesitation and prevarication. They weren’t dilly-dallying when the US tried to send to HK its warships, but flatly denied them the pleasure. They will overcome.

You may read Israel Shamir on China here http://www.unz.com/ishamir/yeti-riots/

Israel Shamir can be reached at [email protected]

This article was first published at The Unz Review

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Media, China, Hong Kong 
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  1. Clicked on article because of “naggers”.

    Slavery had some good aspects for those chaps

    Agree.

    a HK resident was head and shoulders above the miserable mainland coolies

    Agree.

    the cities and the people who prospered due to their collaboration with the imperialist

    Agree.

    These guys wish to restore colonial rule

    Agree.

    this is what the marchers aspire to, to make HK colony again

    Agree.

    Rule, Britannia! Performed by Wind band of Russian corporation of gramophones…record of 1914.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Moi
  2. China should open the gates to Hong Kong. Send 10 million patriotic mainland Chinese to march in Hong Kong streets with signs such as “down with globo-homo comprador cuck running dogs of globo-homo imperialism”.

    • Replies: @Fergus
  3. [The extradition treaty had played an important role in the Snowden case. An ex-CIA spy Edward Snowden decided to reveal to the world the extent of the NSA surveillance we all are subjects of. He chose the Guardian newspaper for his revelations, probably because of the Wikileaks precedent. When he gave an extended interview to the Guardian in HK, his identity had been revealed. The arrival of the US extradition request was imminent. The Chinese authorities told Snowden that they would have to send him to a US jail, to torture and death; that the extradition treaty left them no option in his case. Only the fast footwork of Julian Assange’s brave assistant Sarah Harrison prevented this grim finale and delivered Snowden to safe Moscow.]

    Great article except for the preceding block quote.

    Snowdon: “use tor”

    https://theintercept.com/2015/11/12/edward-snowden-explains-how-to-reclaim-your-privacy/

    Of course the Intercept uses tor, wikileaks uses tor and tor was developed by the USA’s Department of Defense (oops!) for spooks:

    https://pando.com/2014/07/16/tor-spooks/

    Think tor works? Well it does, if you’re the FBI (at least since 2012)

    https://www.wired.com/2014/12/fbi-metasploit-tor/

    Naw, I’m not impressed with Israel’s infatuation with the big-shot bull-shitters (Assange, Snowdon, Greenwald) who’ve steered people into the arms of the security state (Reality Winner?)

    Great article title though…

    • Replies: @Brabantian
    , @Republic
    , @Anon
  4. China should do a ‘Kashmir’ on Hong Kong. Open it fully to all the Chinese. Let Chinese go there and march against Hong Kong snobs and wanna-be-whites.

    That said, let’s cut the Anglos some slack. Brit empire did lots of bad things but also lots of good things. While HK was set up as colonial outpost and cooperated in terrible opium trade, it was also a center of innovation and change that introduced all of China to new ideas. Also, the trajectory of Chinese history since the 80s shows that it had much to learn from Hong Kong and Singapore. Maoism was a disaster, and it also spawned Khmer Rouge that was worse than French imperialism(that wasn’t so bad). Also, back then, it was obvious that the West was indeed far freer and saner than communist China. HK and Singapore set the template for big China to follow.

    But that was then, this is now. West is free? UK imprisons people for tweets. The West is sane? France and UK welcome African invaders while banning people like Jared Taylor who stand for survival of the West. Also, the West, under Jewish power, has moved into neo-imperialist mode against Russia, Iran, and Middle East. And US media are not free. It is controlled by Zionist oligarchs who impose a certain narrative, even utterly bogus ones like Russia Collusion while working with other monopoly capitalists to shut down alternative news sites.
    And when globo-homo-mania is the highest ‘spiritual’ expression of the current West, it is now crazy land.

    This is why China must now crush Hong Kong. Don’t send in the tanks. Just open the gates and send 10 million mainlanders to march down the streets accusing HK snobs of being comprador a-holes. That will do the trick. Turn Hong Kong into No-Bull House.

    And what happened to Taiwan under globo-homo regime? It has ‘gay marriage’. Chinese need to go there and use maximum force to wipe out the decadent scum.

    Some in the West complain about China’s social credit system, and I agree it’s bad, but we got the same shit here. Ask Laura Loomer and Jared Taylor. 1/4 of corporations will not hire people based on their support of Trump. Also, Chinese term for people with bad social credit is mild compared to what Jewish elites call dissident Americans: ‘deplorables’, ‘white supremacist scum’, ‘white trash’, ‘neo nazi’, etc. It’s all very ironic since globalist Jews are the new nazis who spread wars for Israel to destroy millions of lives.

  5. peterAUS says:

    More authors here getting on the “Beijing good” gig.
    Makes sense.

  6. Ronnie says:

    I saw Bannon on TV recently around the time of the Tiananmen anniversary. He said that 75,000 people were killed in the Tiananmen incident. This tells you something about his lack of sophistication or credibility. I was a Visiting Professor at the Peking Union Medical College in 1989 and I always assumed that the numbers of dead and injured were greatly exaggerated. I asked many fellow Professors and students in Beijing for their opinions over the years. Many of these were working in the local hospitals at the time. On average the response to me was between 300-500 dead and injured. I have never had any reason to question this estimate. The Wikileaks memo confirms this.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Exile
    , @anonymous
    , @denk
  7. Ron Unz says:
    @Ronnie

    I saw Bannon on TV recently around the time of the Tiananmen anniversary. He said that 75,000 people were killed in the Tiananmen incident. This tells you something about his lack of sophistication or credibility.

    Actually, the dishonesty or incompetence of our MSM is *vastly* greater than you’re making it out to be.

    Over twenty years ago, the Beijing bureau chief of the Washington Post published a long piece in the Columbia Journalism Review publicly admitted that the supposed “Tiananmen Square Massacre” was just a media hoax/error, and that the claims of the PRC government were probably correct:

    https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php

    Under the circumstances, it’s difficult to believe that most MSM journalists interested in the subject aren’t well aware of the truth, and I’ve noticed that they usually choose their words very carefully to avoid outright lies, but still implying something that is totally incorrect. I’d assume that these implied falsehoods are then wildly exaggerated by ignorant demagogues such as Bannon.

    It’s really astonishing that our MSM still continues to promote this “Big Lie” more than two decades after the CJR admission ran.

    Everyone knows that large numbers of people, including some PRC soldiers, were killed or injured in the violent urban riots elsewhere in Beijing. I think the official death toll claimed by the PRC government at the time was something like 300 killed, which seems pretty plausible to me.

  8. Few Americans are aware of the history of American imperialism in China, with the Yangtze patrols, opium trading, and treaty ports.

    • Agree: GMC
    • Replies: @Declane
    , @Skeptikal
  9. @Ronald Thomas West

    You are quite on to the truth re Assange & Snowden … Israel Shamir talked of meeting Assange in the Ecuador Embassy … I have wondered how Shamir himself, bright as he is, cannot be aware that MI5 & MI6 were apparently moving Assange in & out of there for his photos and appointments, his ‘living’ there is a joke

    ‘Edward Snowden’ of course first ‘leaked’ to the CIA’s Washington Post, in fact to Bush VP Dick Cheney’s biographer Bart Gellman, then the Deep State realised that was too stupid, so they switched to Rothschild employee & ex-gay-pornography-seller Glenn Greenwald, former proprietor of ‘hairystuds’, at the Guardian, an intel-agency rag which lies about nearly everything

    Putin hints out loud he knows Snowden is fake, few in the West pick up on it
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/09/21/russia-govt-report-snowden-greenwald-are-cia-frauds/

    Web summary of why ‘Julian Assange was always a CIA Mossad hoax’:

    [MORE]

    – Assange is fanatically pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian, anti-9-11-truth

    – Netanyahu bragged Assange was Mossad asset, pro-Israel

    – Zbigniew Brzezinski on 29 Nov 2010, US public television PBS News Hour, admitted Assange was intel

    – Assange is not de-platformed, banks transmit shekels for Julian etc

    – Assange & Snowden got famous via CIA – MI6 media, NY Times, UK Guardian, who are never interested in real dissidents

    – Assange shared lawyer with Rothschilds, Rothschild sister-in-law posted Assange bail, Assange ties to Soros too

    – People trusting Assange are dead, Peter W Smith, Seth Rich; others jailed

    – Unknown how many dissidents Assange & Snowden helped silence & kill, both of them a ‘rat trap’ for trusting whistle-blowers
    https://www.henrymakow.com/2018/11/assange-snowden-rat-traps.html

    – Assange helped Rothschilds destroy rival bank Julius Baer

    – Assange and Snowden won’t mention USA Virginia fed judge bribery files that have blocked other extraditions, tho these files would make their extraditions impossible

    – Weird Assange childhood with Aussie mind-control cult ‘the Family’

    – ‘Living at Ecuador Embassy’ – ‘now in Belmarsh prison’ – easily faked, Assange moved in & out for photos by MI5 MI6, police under national security orders

    – Assange & Snowden de-legitimise real dissidents, beacause people say, ‘Wikileaks – NY Times – UK Guardian would cover it if it was true’

  10. getaclue says:

    So if I’m reading this article right–Communist China so gooooood– how about those 65,000,000 Mao and his “Leaders” er, basically sort of er, murdered? Lets hear what they have to say about the great China “leaders”? Oh yeah, we can’t they killed them…. Is this the take away quote from Mr. Shamir?: “I would not worry overmuch for China. The Chinese leaders knew how to deal with Tiananmen, they knew how to deal with minority unrest, without unnecessary cruelty and without hesitation and prevarication.” Yes, they do know “how to deal with minority unrest” historically–65,000, 000 corpses is some real “dealing” — no “unnecessary cruelty”? (I also read recently of the sexual torture of Falun Gong practitioners–brutal gang rapes and with instruments of torture–this is recent and well, happening now I read– Is this also how to deal with “minority unrest”–Do we cheer on China for this too? No “unnecessary cruelty” at work here either? I mean you could point out that yes, there is definitely some of the Colonial backlash he cites as to Hong Kong at work without praising how great China is at “dealing with minorites” I think, that would have played a bit better, to me anyway…. https://www.heritage.org/asia/commentary/the-legacy-mao-zedong-mass-murder
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/sexual-torture-of-detained-falun-dafa-adherents-rampant-rights-lawyer_2807772.html

    • Troll: Parfois1
    • Replies: @Exile
    , @Jason Liu
    , @Anonymous
    , @TT
  11. More like ‘House Coolies’ mutiny.

  12. Some in the West complain about China’s social credit system, and I agree it’s bad, but we got the same shit here.

    Except that the Social Credit system will work in the opposite direction of the one in the West. The Chinese may dock points for having a transexual operation, engaging in homosexual acts, promoting anti-nationalist sentiment and propaganda, expressing solidarity with and assisting divisive religious and ethnic minorities, while in the West you’ll get credited for the same.

    • LOL: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
  13. Behold the man, Mr. Shamir!

  14. Exile says:
    @Ronnie

    Bannon’s the last-generation infiltration and gatekeeping bot, Populator 2.0.

    In it’s heydey, this model could deceive a majority of sophisticated Alt-Right Voight-Kampfers. Now it’s approaching the Bill Mitchell threshold of detectability.

    The successor Yarzony prototype, NatConner 2.1, has crashed on the pad.

    Much like the film franchise, they’ll go with a thot-bot for version 3.0.

    • LOL: Ron Unz
  15. Exile says:
    @getaclue

    I also read recently of the sexual torture of Falun Gong practitioners–brutal gang rapes and with instruments of torture

    (((Heritage.org))) would never steer you wrong, OFC.

    That one’s right up there with Huns spitting Belgian babies on bayonets and the infamous “death camp masturbation machine.”

    The Empire is never content to merely fight its enemies b/c the interests of its citizens – it no longer even knows much less cares what those are. Every battle must be Sons of Light vs. Sons of Darkness, for the fate of the universe.

    • Replies: @getaclue
  16. Daemon says:
    @peterAUS

    China doesn’t have to be good. It just doesnt have to be evil like your side.
    That’s all there is to it.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Ash Williams
  17. ​US is no longer about human rights. It’s about Degenerate Demands.

  18. Paw says:

    One electrical grid bought from Austr. Govt. /sold cheaply actually/,cost one million and after 3 years was 730 millions worth..In 2018. Of course prices electricity went through roofs ,
    up to the stars..
    No oligarch in Russia made any money. They got it all in the gold plate …
    Selected group Jewish people /about 30/,took part in auction /no one other was admitted/,where all the richest industrial object , mines, oil fields, etc. was given them ,with banks lent this very cheap purchases. …Overnight they all were in billions dollars worth of assets.
    Then they were supposed to sell it all gradually to the USA, global or transnational monopoly conglomerations..
    Epstein , from teacher of children to the million dollars, then hundreds millions , riches overnight /Stearn Bear/ ?..

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  19. Dutch Boy says:

    Interviews of actual Hong Kongers suggest that their principal objection to extradition is that residents of HK would then be subject to People’s Courts rather than to the British style courts of HK with all the legal trappings of the Foreign Devils (presumption of innocence, rules of evidence, no hearsay, no secret trials, no anonymous accusers – all that folderol).

  20. Talha says:

    Make Hong Kong Great Britain Again.

    LOOOL! Now that’s some good trolling right there. They would’ve reached epic levels by incorporating a Chinese-looking version of Pepe.
    Peace.

  21. getaclue says:
    @Exile

    Right, nothing to see here let’s move on because an intrepid truth sayer like you tells us: “That one’s right up there with Huns spitting babies on bayonets….”–are you live from Beijing with that or just some kind of in general nasty idiot? How does this one fit in your “appraisal” of the situation?:
    “The Chinese government continues to carry out mass killings of innocent people in order to obtain their organs for transplants, a damning new report claims.
    The report – by former Canadian politician David Kilgour, human rights lawyer David Matas, and journalist Ethan Gutmann – shows that organ transplants are carried out in China 10 times more than official government figures reveal.
    “The (Communist Party) says the total number of legal transplants is about 10,000 per year. But we can easily surpass the official Chinese figure just by looking at the two or three biggest hospitals,” Matas said in a statement.
    The report estimates that 60,000 to 100,000 organs are transplanted each year in Chinese hospitals.”–Those two acclaimed Human Rights Activists must be working for “Heritage.Org” too in the world you populate? How about the WaPo analysis of the situation?– Real “Heritage.org” types there at the WaPo?: An account of the transformation process as to Falun Gong prisoners was published by The Washington Post in 2001:
    “At a police station in western Beijing, Ouyang was stripped and interrogated for five hours. “If I responded incorrectly, that is if I didn’t say, ‘Yes,’ they shocked me with the electric truncheon,” he said.
    Then, he was transferred to a labor camp in Beijing’s western suburbs. There, the guards ordered him to stand facing a wall. If he moved, they shocked him. If he fell down from fatigue, they shocked him.

    Each morning, he had five minutes to eat and relieve himself. “If I didn’t make it, I went in my pants,” he said. “And they shocked me for that, too.”

    By the sixth day, Ouyang said, he couldn’t see straight from staring at plaster three inches from his face. His knees buckled, prompting more shocks and beatings. He gave in to the guards’ demands.

    For the next three days, Ouyang denounced [Falun Gong’s] teachings, shouting into the wall. Officers continued to shock him about the body and he soiled himself regularly. Finally, on the 10th day, Ouyang’s repudiation of the group was deemed sufficiently sincere.

    He was taken before a group of Falun Gong inmates and rejected the group one more time as a video camera rolled. Ouyang left jail and entered the brainwashing classes. Twenty days later after debating Falun Gong for 16 hours a day, he “graduated.”

    “The pressure on me was and is incredible,” he said. “In the past two years, I have seen the worst of what man can do. We really are the worst animals on Earth.”[98]” — Amnesty International is also in on the “Heritage.org” scheme to deceive as to the torture employed by China against dissidents in your worldview–as they have some findings quite contrary to your “statements of fact” also– but you can go look that one up yourself sport along with the thousands of others showing you are either clueless or much worse….When it comes to lying propagandists don’t look so far, don’t look for “Heritage.org”– you do have a mirror there in Beijing don’t you? Just look there.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  22. Corvinus says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    “Slavery had some good aspects for those chaps…”

    No. They lost their freedom.

    “a HK resident was head and shoulders above the miserable mainland coolies”

    According to Who/Whom?

    “the cities and the people who prospered due to their collaboration with the imperialist”

    It was the imperialist who prospered.

    “These guys wish to restore colonial rule”

    No, they want to restore home rule.

    “this is what the marchers aspire to, to make HK colony again”

    No, they want to be free from the shackles of China.

  23. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    The event was not a hoax. The event was not just at the square, but in the subsequent environs. The source states “the Chinese government estimates more than 300 fatalities. Western estimates are somewhat higher. Many victims were shot by soldiers on stretches of Changan Jie, the Avenue of Eternal Peace, about a mile west of the square, and in scattered confrontations in other parts of the city, where, it should be added, a few soldiers were beaten or burned to death by angry workers.”

    Journalists have acknowledged that most of the deaths occurred outside of the Square in western Beijing. Chinese scholar Wu Renhua, who was present at the protests, wrote that the government’s discussion of the issue was a red herring intended to absolve itself of responsibility and showcase its benevolence. “Really, whether the fully equipped army of troops massacred peaceful ordinary folks inside or outside the Square makes very little difference. It is not even worthwhile to have this discussion at all.”

    • Replies: @Thirdeye
  24. Jason Liu says:
    @getaclue

    China’s not a communist country except in name. The Epoch Times is a Falun Gong mouthpiece that makes stuff up. I don’t support Mao but he is irrelevant today.

    • Replies: @getaclue
  25. Jason Liu says:

    The reasons you list might motivate some of the protesters, but it can’t be responsible for this many of them. There IS a homegrown problem here and China would be foolish to ignore it.

    The protester’s motivations and their implications, as I see it:

    1. Loss of prestige – Irrelevant, they’ll get used to it

    2. Colonial nostalgia – Dead end, open to mockery

    3. Housing/economic issues – Manageable with subsidies and regulations, but HK will have to give up some autonomy

    4. Regional tribalism/xenophobia – Manageable, not unique to HK

    5. US intervention – Dangerous but manageable with better PR & soft power

    6. Genuine belief in liberal democracy – Very dangerous, will cause national decline similar to the West

    • Replies: @Realist
  26. Half-Jap says:
    @Brabantian

    They are the ideal rat traps.
    Even if Wikileaks wasn’t a set-up, undoubtably they would be under close surveillance and/or be infiltrated and compromised.
    Snowden has been suspect in my mind when he purportedly left so much info to just one journalist belonging to a sketchy outfit, and only a trickle of info came forth, while he’s celebrated all over. Many of us already knew about such program from good people like William Binney.
    As you say, there are real whisleblowers, and they are ignored, jailed or dead.

  27. Half-Jap says:

    Ya know, Taiwan (and Japan) were considered barbaric lands, where pirates dwelt. They weren’t even that ‘Chinese’ until recent times. And I bet the vote would be close (but in our favor) if they had a choice of being with us, or with the mainland. After all, we’re way more awesome, especially the hentai. They weren’t a colony to us to extract or exploit (our investments were tremendous), but was on the way of being us, as equals. I wouldn’t mind a russian-style federation with okinawa and taiwan as autonomous republics.

  28. Goddamn Israel, this is an excellent piece of writing. You hit every nail on the head when it comes to explaining why the troublemakers in Hong Kong are a bunch of useful idiots being used by imperialist powers. These bastards really are house niggers, the kind of people who would side with a distant foreign power over their own countrymen. Hats off to you good sir, thank you for your clarity of thought.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  29. Anon[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    No comment on the US Embassy cable by wikileaks, Peter?

    It seems like a good time to pull out your collection of BBC videos and contest the evil commie narrative you hate so much, can’t have people start believing the whole massacre was made up..

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  30. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @getaclue

    The Epoch Time is owned by the Falun Gong. You are reading Falun Gong sponsored news about the alleged torture of their cultists on a website owned by them, and taking it all at face value.

    Having looked into their activities and doctrine, I advise you take everything they say – not just about the Chinese government, but everything – with a grain of salt.

    • Replies: @getaclue
  31. @Commentator Mike

    Exactly. The Chinese use the deep state to keep order and suppress crime; Washington uses it to spread disorder (Antifa) and protect crime (BLM). There is a difference, you see!

  32. Realist says:
    @Jason Liu

    Genuine belief in liberal democracy – Very dangerous, will cause national decline similar to the West

    That is for sure.

  33. xvart says:

    I see no real difference between the English colonies and the previous Chinese colonies in Asia this would be “the pot calling the kettle black”, just the usual hypocrisy of state actors.

    The local HK people who live on the edge of these power structures are not the seeming profiteers of any of this they exist in frameworks they can neither control nor escape escape from so blaming them for being in a place not of their choosing is being disingenuous.

    All I read is someone blaming children for the sins of the father.

  34. @Ron Unz

    It’s really astonishing that our MSM still continues to promote this “Big Lie” more than two decades after the CJR admission ran.

    No, it is not astonishing. Your homework for tonight is to re-read chapter five of The Iron Curtain Over America 😉

    • Replies: @Richard B
  35. @Dutch Boy

    … residents of HK would then be subject to People’s Courts rather than to the British style courts of HK with all the legal trappings of the Foreign Devils (presumption of innocence, rules of evidence, no hearsay, no secret trials, no anonymous accusers – all that folderol).

    Heck, residents of today’s UK would like to get that deal.

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
    , @Parfois1
  36. getaclue says:
    @Jason Liu

    Garbage– what they are doing to the Falun Gong and Muslims and minorities and have done to Christians for decades is well known and well sourced, they are actually harvesting organs from dissenters…. Not Communist? Communism persecutes religious communities and minorities that don’t fall in line and that is very much ongoing in China today — the only difference is they have allowed in financial freedoms but other than that the system is still ruled with an iron fist by the Communist Party and getting worse due technology improvements that make that control even tighter and more fearsome:

    “The Chinese state is setting up a vast ranking system that will monitor the behavior of its enormous population, and rank them all based on their “social credit.”

    The “social credit system,” first announced in 2014, aims to reinforce the idea that “keeping trust is glorious and breaking trust is disgraceful,” according to a government document.

    The program is due to be fully operational nationwide by 2020, but is being piloted for millions of people across the country already. The scheme will be mandatory.” So this is not Communist social control? This is good in your worldview? No thanks.

    • Replies: @Escher
  37. getaclue says:
    @Anonymous

    In your world its all about “The Epoch Times” lying about the situation in China in regards to the Falun Gong–no truth to it because of they’re “owned” by them? Ok let’s see out in the real world how the situation is being framed outside The Epoch Times since you don’t provide any sources in support of your stated view?:

    “Since 1999, Falungong practitioners have been the target of an aggressive and often violent crackdown by the Chinese government, one aspect of much broader tightening of controls on individuals and organizations whose activities China’s leaders perceive as threatening to Chinese Communist Party control. The past two years have witnessed a deterioration in civil liberties nationwide, with disparate groups-political dissidents, foreign scholars, labor organizers, religious believers worshiping outside official aegis, activists in Tibet and Xinjiang, Internet users, academics, and editors whose messages challenge the Party line, among others-facing new restrictions and abuses. The crackdown on Falungong is both symptomatic of the larger trend and significant in its own right for the vehemence with which the authorities have moved to eradicate the organization and “reeducate” its members….” Is the UN in on it with The Epoch Times too? Falun Gong running the UN too?: https://www.refworld.org/docid/45cb148e2.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  38. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    Well, why not?
    The same questions remain:
    1. WHO were the guys in that APC that got firebombed?
    2. What happened to the weapons taken from the State Security people?
    3. WHO fired the first shots in the confrontations between advancing columns and the protesters? And why, of course?

  39. Dutch Boy says:
    @The Alarmist

    Too true! The HKers are reactionaries.

  40. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @getaclue

    I’m surprised you’re adamantly claiming otherwise, it’s not like they’ve tried hard to keep it a secret. There’s so much material out there directly linking them together even a cursory search should turn something up.

    Even the MSM doesn’t deny their affiliation, look at this recently published this article by the NBC:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121

    • Replies: @getaclue
  41. Parfois1 says:
    @getaclue

    Why is intolerable crap like this given space here, and soil the most tolerant of all blogs? There is a contradiction somewhere, methinks…

  42. Parfois1 says:
    @The Alarmist

    Thanks for the good laugh! But we are dealing with the supreme legal system the world has ever known; as in the largest empire the world …. You know, the one where Assange is kept in gaol for jumping bail from a non-existent charge.

    It is the same as one being charged and found guilty for resisting arrest by a cop who has no reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offense, otherwise known as false imprisonment.

  43. Escher says:
    @getaclue

    The Chinese communists(in name only, as Jason Liu has already commented) ain’t no saints, but I don’t think it is likely they are harvesting human organs. Where is the proof, or is it on the same videotapes that show Iraqi troops bayoneting Kuwaiti babies in 1991?

    • Replies: @getaclue
  44. I can’t believe I just read these protestors should be put down like the globo-homo cuck dogs that they are! Is it 1984? Should protesting former slaves in the US been put down in the 1960’s? Perhaps.

    Either ushers in a totalitarian police state, which otherwise the entire article seeks to condemn. Anti-china isn’t globalism, it is countering a slave economy run by an communist oligarchy.

  45. getaclue says:
    @Escher

    “Where is the proof?” An Independent Tribunal determined on the evidence that yes–they are doing it. Also the independent Canadian Human Rights researchers came to the same conclusions that I cited here. Research it — it really is not in dispute. It is really something given the brutality of the Chinese Communists and Communists worldwide and the going on 200 Million they murdered last Centure the apologists for them are now so widespread in the USA and elsewhere — especially here on the UNZ blog where people are obviously more educated. Yes, in China you have more “economic” rights than previously did not exist under the nasty collectivist boot of Communism –other than that though you don’t have any human rights much outside the Communist Party and what “Dear Leader” types dictate and with the Social Credit System they are implementing (Google helped/ing? Bringing it here no doubt as their current censorship is a dry run….) they do and will have much less. Here is just one article as to the Independent Tribunal findings: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes

    • Replies: @Biff
  46. getaclue says:
    @Anonymous

    Funny how that’s not what I said– you state that I am “adamantly claiming otherwise” as to the Epoch Times–this is total bs if you read my comment. I said that OUTSIDE of The Epoch Times the same info was available and it is–I showed the UN is saying the same! For some reason you missed that? Next you’ll say I’m one of them Falun Gong critters…. (actually I think all Yoga is demonic but people should be free to practice whatever religion etc.– be a Satanist loser or whatever– they want to without the boot of the State–Communist or otherwise– on them….). I also could care less about The Epoch Times but have found they are somewhat of a small voice in opposition to the overwhelming onslaught of Leftist/Communist Propaganda the MSM pours out daily on us….(Today NBC stating “Heterosexuality Not Working” promoting once again the glories of homosexual acts as part of the daily dose of Cultural Marxist propaganda against Western Civilization/Christianity/Normal….)

    So the MSM hates the Epoch Times because they claim they “favor” Trump so they start “investigating” who is “behind it” — such a sin to say anything favorable to the President as the MSM hates him 24/7 and lies all the time, when not criticizing “Heterosexuality”, but that’s ok because they are the MSM? Same slander was used against the Washington Times as to Moon’s money being in it but the fact was the reporting was/is solid not so much the Racist NYSlimes these days…. Same with The Epoch Times, since it is not completely Leftist propaganda 24/7 like the Leftard MSM they hate it and slander it as to who is “behind” it–I see when you raise the issue of almost all JEWS being “behind” the MSM in positions of power/influence (something I have even read a high profile Jew “in the business” admit….) that’s not something to be done/stated–it’s ANTISEMITIC of course!– The fact is what The Epoch Times has reported has been verified and worse exists than that if you look.

    Stop sanitizing Communism even if the ChiComs now have some nice “economic” bells and whistles– it is still the same ideology that killed going on 200,000,000 people last century. Lets see what an Independent Tribunal has to say about the ChiComs and Falun Gong–harvesting organs, another ChiCom benefit….:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes

    • Replies: @Anon
  47. nsa says:

    Hongee Kongee complodors want hebrel tlibe come in lun evelything like in gleat amelika with lots of neglos with big plick play spolts and equal lights for plick licker like in gleat amelika and evely city gay plide palade like in amelika. Fleedom and velly plospelity and lots flee stuff like in amelika and gleat blitain and no more lotten commie luler velly bad.

    • Replies: @Patricus
    , @Parfois1
  48. Mark Hunter says: • Website
    @Brabantian

    A raft of rubbish from VeteransToday.

  49. TT says:
    @getaclue

    1) Falungong is a outlawed crazil cult blacklisted even in Spore. Those bend on spreading its stories tell voluminous about his motive, credibility and character.

    2) Mao killed 65M? Sure, courtesy to Americans strict blockade in grains sales during China 3yrs famine.

    Think about Great Bengal Famine under British Raj mercy. Churchill response was: these pests were breeding like rabbits…and he beheld all grains in India to kindly help reduce the pests.

    https://www.quora.com/How-did-Mao-manage-to-kill-78-million-people/answer/Janus-Dongye-Qimeng

    [MORE]

    Firstly let us think about an interesting question:
    How many Chinese people were killed during Xi Jinping’s term?

    The answer is: 59.6 million

    Can you believe it? Yes it is true!

    Consider the death rate of current Chinese population is 7.1‰, one could easily calculate this number: 1.4billion * 7.1‰ * 6 years = 59.6 million, which is even greater than the total population of Italy btw. This estimation includes the number of people who died naturally, from disease, natural disasters and accidents.

    You may think this is a joke. However actually, this is exactly how western propaganda used to exaggerate and manipulate data to demonize the “bad dictators”.

    Let us look back at the Mao’s period (1949–1976) and do a bit of math:

    During the 27 years, Chinese population grew from 550 million to 900 million. If we assume the death rate of 10.0‰ during the 27 years, then there are around 200 million died during Mao’s rule. Then it is safe to say Mao killed 200 million people, right?

    Next let us have a look at the controversial famine period 1959–1961 more in details. According to the data from World Data Atlas (), it is indeed true that the death rate for this period is three times larger than that for the normal days.

    At that time the Chinese population was around 660 million, and the death rates reported were: 1959: 14.6‰, 1960: 25.4‰, 1961: 14.2‰

    Hence the number of people that were killed is: 660million*(14.6‰+25.4‰+14.2‰) = 35.7 million

    30–45 million is a number frequently reported from numerous sources and books. This is exactly how the number in those news was calculated:

    That’s true, the historians and the news were not at least lying. They were reporting the “truth”.

    Let’s also include the number of people that were killed during Korean wars, Liberating Tibet, Indian wars in 1962, the numerous sacrifices when building railways, tunnels and bridges. It is pretty easy to kill 78 million as you asked.

    Another interesting question:

    How many Indian people died during the democratically-elected Nehru’s rule at the same time (1959–1961)?

    According to the the number of Indians who died during 1959–1961 are: 450million*22.5‰*3 = 30.3 million

    Therefore by western standard, there are 30 million Indian people killed by Nehru right?

    —————————————————————————————–

    Since you already know how the death roll is calculated. Lets investigate this number a bit further.

    How many Chinese people died naturally if we assume there were no Mao’s bad policy?

    We can calculate this by assuming the normal death rate 10‰ using the developed country standard.

    660million*10‰*3 = 19.8 million

    Hence by subtraction, there are 35.7 million – 19.8 million = 15.9 million people that died unnaturally during the famine. This is roughly what the official figures reported from the Chinese government.

    Yes there are still 15 million people that died probably out of hunger in three years. That is like 1 in 120 people died every year, just like another person died out of flu, which you might not notice.

    However we still can’t deny that so many people died from the famine, which could be due to a combination effect of Mao’s policy and natural disasters.

    Mao Zedong rose as an excellent militarist and strategist but unfortunately not a good governor. That’s why Deng Xiaoping rates Mao as “70% merit and 30% damage”. For the damage such as the Great Leap Forward and the Culture Revolution, as Chinese, we still need to remember the history well, conclude the lesson and prevent it happening again.

    However, it should not be used as source for the west to exploit and exaggerate too.

    • Replies: @Alden
  50. Anon[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @getaclue

    Aah…Epoch time & Falungong that every knows what they are up to.

    Facebook bans ads from The Epoch Times after huge pro-Trump buy
    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/08/23/facebook-bans-ads-from-the-epoch-times-after-huge-pro-trump-buy.html

    The decision follows an NBC News report that The Epoch Times had shifted its spending on Facebook in the last month, seemingly in an effort to obfuscate its connection to some $2 million worth of ads that promoted the president and conspiracy theories about his political enemies.

    Stop sanitizing Communism even if the ChiComs now have some nice “economic” bells and whistles– it is still the same ideology that killed going on 200,000,000 people last century.

    Chicomm killing 200M in a century? Wow, how powerful is Chinese to do that behind bamboo curtain only known to you.

    It took Americans great effort to achieve the 100M milestone proudly, by committing endless atrocity wars 93% of its time using every WMD since founded (on red indians millions corpse to accomplish).

    US dropped more bombs than entire WII used, dropping in each NK, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos to kill millions. Slaughtered millions to colonize Philippines. Slaughtered millions in CIA-Suharho Indonesia massacre to purge communists. Spend 15yrs to slaughter 1M Iraqis…Hiroshima nuclear bombs, pouring millions litres of Orange Agents into Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos,..WWI, WWII…

    These cause many $T and huge US allied support to butcher that much. Yet Chinese could do it quietly to remove 200M from its 400~600M population in last century, and miraculously grew to 1400M population of today. You need much better lying skill to be Epoch times paid mouthpiece.

    • Replies: @dimples
  51. Anon[367] • Disclaimer says:

    On HK riots, there are some interesting writers giving some insight into US gov, CIA, UK gov, MI6, Canada, Germany involvement in collabration with treason HKies.

    https://www.quora.com/profile/Robin-Daverman

    https://www.quora.com/profile/Jamie-Wang-45

    https://www.quora.com/profile/Roy-Tong-10

    Our China expert, Godfree Roberts.
    https://www.quora.com/profile/Godfree-Roberts

    The ZUS has started to purge & shut down pro-China-Russia Truth teller in FB, tweeters, Google, …

    Those can read HKies Cantonese writing, here’s one site where these HK rioters recruit, organize & discuss where to meet, how to attack police, activities, and payment.
    https://lihkg.com/category/1?order=now

    This is the truth of white shirt(local residents West called mobsters) vs black shirt(rioters West called peaceful protestors). The residents of Yuan Lan district demanded the rioters not to mess up their place. The black shirt challenge white shirt for fight by spraying fire host and hurling vulgarity, ended get beaten up. But West never show the whole video.

    Any way, I was permanent banned from Quora, FB, …even I am not related to China, just because I exposed some of ZUS-India axis evils & lies with evidences in other topics. Censorship is fully in placed.

  52. HK was a colony; this is what the marchers aspire to, to make HK colony again.

    I haven’t followed this closely, but – why? Why would so many Chinese want that? I understand a couple of tycoons, but why would ethnic Chinese want a foreign rule?

    Perhaps they- just speculating – don’t care about full democracy, but are scared of China’s Big Brother policy of complete surveillance & a zombie slavery society. No one with a functioning mind- and the Chinese, whatever one thinks of their hyper-nationalism & a streak of robotic- groupthink- conformist culture – wants to live in a chaos; but also, no one wants to live in a dystopian nightmare which is the fundamental social project of the new China.

  53. peterAUS says:

    The latest, apaprently, from The Mouth (Sauron….):

    ….Four police officers were filmed drawing their guns after demonstrators were seen chasing them with metal pipes….

    ….senior police officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said this week that officers had been targeted and exposed online even while there was temporary peace on the streets. The police said officers’ personal data, contact information, home addresses, and more had been shared online, and accused protesters of threatening officers’ families….

    Is anyone there thinking that as soon as they “neutralize” the LOCAL police force SOMETHING else will come into the fray?
    Probably not. Feels good.

    This time it won’t be Communist era conscripts of the regular Army.

    I’d say good luck to those protesters but really can’t. Wouldn’t make any sense.

  54. Chinaman says:

    A state that is not ready to use force will necessarily fail, as did the Ukrainian state under Mr Yanukowych in 2014. Blood will be shed and the state will be ruined, if its rulers are too squeamish to stop the rebellion.

    Thank you, Me Shamir.

    Your analogy of the house nigger is spot on and a accurate portrayal of the slave mentality held by these protestors. It is the epitome of shamelessness and insanity to beg to be enslaved. As a Hker, I am happy to say none of the people I associate with support the protestors and these British house niggers are the filth of HK society.

    You are absolutely right to point out a state that is not ready to use force will fail and I think the situation have reached a critical point where some blood must be shed and some examples to be made. There is a Chinese saying “ People don’t cry until they see the coffin.” Time to bring it on.

    I never understood Mao and why he had to kill all those millions of people, I do now…

    • Replies: @Parbes
    , @Mark Hunter
  55. Parbes says:
    @Chinaman

    “As a Hker, I am happy to say none of the people I associate with support the protestors and these British house niggers are the filth of HK society.”

    Then WHERE are HKers like you and “the people you associate with” making your voices heard, asserting yourselves visibly? Why aren’t you people on the street, confronting these “British house nigger filth”, demonstrating noisily in support of the legitimate Hong Kong government (which would give THEM more courage to act more forcefully as well)? Because of the (relative) timidity and silence of you and those like you, most of the people in the world are buying the Western MSM line that these seditious degenerates represent all or most of the Hong Kong population.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  56. Wally says:
    @Corvinus

    said:
    “No, they want to be free from the shackles of China.”

    HK was taken from China, China has the right to take it back.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  57. Biff says:
    @getaclue

    Dragging your propaganda onto a site that is dedicated to outflanking and debunking the stuff on a daily basis is none too bright, but at the same time it is expected. It doesn’t work unless it is relentlessly decimated everywhere – in addition, you have to earn what they are paying you.

    Which is how much exactly?

    • Replies: @getaclue
  58. stevecel says:

    Look, you people have to understand that Chinese want any kind of stable rule, period, because that befits their sexual strategy. You have to remember that for hundreds of years China was ruled by the Manchu, whom the less educated among you have probably not even heard of even if the Manchurian Candidate rings a bell. It’s not that the commies are good, or that democracy is bad, Chinese simply want to carry on reproducing and squeezing each other like they have since time immemorial. Petty squabbles over ideologies and whatnot aren’t really worth it to them. In WWII you had externalities that prevented the Japanese from gaining their rightful place as the new dynastic rulers of China, but they were in over their heads anyway if you know anything about Japanese. That explains the so-called mainland sentiment – as for the islanders, Hong Kong is not a true island like Taiwan and is about as separate as a pimple is from your face. They are feeling the squeeze so would rather call in their old rulers or anyone who can save them from having to compete directly with a population of 1.5 billion. It’s admirable from the standpoint of a global minority like the white “race” but ultimately futile.

    For ZOG or whatever you want to call them Hong Kong is a convenient location to deliver the virus. Fever has already cured the Taklamakan, but that’s another place waiting to flare up if the commie immune system can be compromised.

    Anyway, good luck to you all in the coming wars. With any luck death will come quickly if it must.

  59. Richard B says:
    @The Alarmist

    “No, it is not astonishing. Your homework for tonight is to re-read chapter five of The Iron Curtain Over America”

    One of the must reads in The TUR library.

  60. Richard B says:
    @Brabantian

    Spot on!

    You know who the hostile elite really fears?

    People they frame and jail, or kill.

    Like Schaeffer Cox and LaVoy.

  61. sally says:
    @Priss Factor

    I agree: develop and issue an ICON label.. find a few cases to embed the Icon label into the minds of the public.. and make a case or to. Note: some Icon labels are “good guy icon-labels” and some are “bad guy icon-labels” GGILs or BGILs. You can use a different set of labels correct-GIL or lying-GIL or irrelevant-GIL. Even phases can be Icons: We the people, your vote for the President, … Then use them in the same fashion as the name of famous football player or singer or 50 year ex-con or sexual deviant or whatever.. either as pointers to the X-GIL or as referent to intended established value of the X-GIL It is known that the label counts in changing or preventing from being changed most people far more than the truth about the X .

    IMO, Icon is a well developed mind control technology. Mostly the use of the technology is hidde.
    consider the MSM including Icon Google and Icon NYT have demonstrated numerous times working knowledge expertise with mind changing ICON technology.

    IF EVER us Deplorables are going to respond to wrongful, deliberate, misleading, deceitful propaganda in meaningful, effective and timely ways, we must first develop an understanding how Icon technology is used against us by the MSM and others often to promote wrongful, deliberate, misleading, deceitful, or for the silencing of a rising whistle blower. Before one can fix a problem one must understand the problem.

  62. TKK says:

    The protests are also driven by personal autonomy desires.

    Look at the micro level. My sister teaches English in Chengdu. Google, Gmail, You Tube, What’s App and Facebook are all blocked in China.

    You have to download a VPN before you land to use any of these sites.

    Everything online in China is done by WeChat. *Everything*. From video calls to pay your utilities to banking. It’s an open joke that WeChat is heavily monitored by the Party. It’s the meat of your social credit score- WeChat data.

    However, in HK, there are servers where you can hop on FB, Google products and the like.

    HK has a more laisse faire vibe that huge enormous China. If you have never been, that point can’t be overstated. To make blanket statements about anything in China is misleading.

    Because China is another planet. HK was/ is a cosmopolitan outpost that had its own identity- It does not want to be swallowed up by clodhopper spitting burping mainlanders completely.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  63. Most comments are idiotic (as is the article). True, Western players certainly have fomented much of this; true, many (most?) protesters are violent & obnoxius; true, Chinese national identity planners want to unify, step by step, all mainland (and not only them) Han Chinese under one rule, fearing of some disintegration in the future.

    But, having in mind what kind of society mainland China was & has become, Wittfogel’s remark on oriental despotism becomes pertinent….

    The good citizens of classical Greece drew strength from the determination of two of their countrymen, Sperthias and Bulis, to resist the lure of total power. On their way to Suza, the Spartan envoys were met by Hydarnes, a high Persian official, who offered to make them mighty in their homeland, if only they would attach themselves to the Great King, his despotic master. To the benefit of Greece-and to the benefit of all free men-Herodotus has preserved their answer. “Hydarnes,” they said, “thou art a one-sided counselor. Thou hast experience of half the matter; but the other half is beyond thy knowledge. A slave’s life thou understandest; but, never having tasted liberty, thou canst not tell whether it be sweet or no. Ah! hadst thou known what freedom is, thou wouldst have bidden us fight for it, not with the spear only. but with the battle-axe.”

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  64. dimples says:
    @Anon

    I think he means ‘commies, ie all the commies in the world, killed 200m in 20th century, not America killed 200m.’

    • Agree: getaclue
  65. Anonymous[837] • Disclaimer says:

    We can distinguish a real people’s rising and foreign-inspired interventions on behalf of the compradors. The first one will be silenced while the second will be glorified by the New York Times. It is that simple.

    Very true. A sufficiently red-pilled person can learn a lot by just reading the MSM. The truth is invariably located on the opposite side of what they’re selling and includes other topics like global warming, white genocide, Epstein’s “suicide” etc.

  66. Mark Hunter says: • Website
    @Chinaman

    Now that we’ve rehabilitated Mao Tse-tung we can turn to Stalin.

    I’m being sarcastic.

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
    , @getaclue
  67. Thank God President Putin knew to distinguish from the sober assessments of his trusted political technologists versus the Noise made by these —- I don’t know what to call them, —- in those fatal weeks in June, 2014. He refrained from sending Russian army into Kiev, as they were urging him to do, loudly. Well, five years passed. A sea change occurred in the political landscape in the West. Even CNN has forgotten about evil Russia))) And thank God Mr Putin, a stalwart and astute reader of political and national characteristics, is personally in charge of setting the tone and scope and limit and time duration of this pragmatic China “ …” alliance —- and NOT these Shamirs or Sakers. Let us not even get into any discussion about what is China what is East Asia, what is this what is that — a waste of time. Sit back and enjoy the show.

  68. Paul says:

    Death to the Communist insect that preys upon the lives of the people!

  69. Aspnaz says:

    The Chinese leaders knew how to deal with Tiananmen, they knew how to deal with minority unrest, without unnecessary cruelty and without hesitation and prevarication.

    Beijing uses fear to control the Chinese. They do not have any other tools in the toolbox: HK is a problem because – despite the author’s ignorance – China now depends more than ever on HK’s position in the financial world. Otherwise China would have shot the protesters a long time ago. As it is, China is now like a deer in the headlights: China national day is coming up on Oct 1 and they need to stop the protests before then (or China loses face) buts without destroying access to USD, but they don’t know how! I understand the author’s BS: he is superimposing his understanding of the world on the HK locals, the classic “everybody thinks the same way and behaves the same way so the HK protesters must be doing the same” simpleton’s line of wisdom. Oh well, if it entertains, who cares. It certainly doesn’t educate: doesn’t he know that all protesters are protesting their loss of something and have reached a point where they will protest. Calling them niggers will get you some extra clicks but I am none the wiser about HK, you could be writing about the yellow vests.

    • Replies: @Parsnipitous
  70. George says:

    “Once, a HK resident was head and shoulders above the miserable mainland coolies; he spoke English, he had smart devices, he had his place in the tentacle sucking wealth out of the mainland, and some of that wealth stuck to his sweaty hands.”

    HK is having trouble competing with it’s closest peer competitor Singapore. Some of the reason for that is a legal framework that disadvantages HK. The basis of HK real estate market attractiveness over other locations in China and the world is a legal framework separate from China. While the extraction treaty seems reasonable at first, remember HK’s extradition treaties have to compete with Singaporean, Taiwanese, and Australian extradition treaties. A curiosity of the extradition treaty is HK is already in China, so why the need to extradite people to somewhere else in China?

    China might or might not be able to industrialize its economy through central planning. But one industry they have not been able to centrally plan is movies and entertainment. How is it that in the past with nothing HK had a top tier movie industry, Bruce Lee, but now seems to have nothing.

    IMO, mainland Chinese authorities just don’t understand the HK economy and are mostly chosing policies they consider convenient.

  71. @peterAUS

    Six years ago when those Snowden nonsense and Maidan nonsense first broke out, I was quite baffled why Mr. Putin consistently turned a cold shoulder to all these “Russian nationalists” and kept all the important jobs away from their likes. Did not his defiant stance against the West bore resemblance in rhetoric? NOW I understand!! One would prefer even to side with crusted dinosaurs of RFKP Russian Com Party, —- even Zuganov had a better sense of where Russia’s real interest lies, or how to read their new comrades from Beijing, and so on, and etc., and etc.

  72. Most of the protesters don’t look to be older than thirty, so I seriously doubt they remember the good old, house nigga days. Besides I think I can speak for most Americans in this matter, “still don’t care.” You know the deep state might have overplayed its hand with all its homo-globalism, most of us worry more about money and crime thanks to all their lovely migrants. Plus the dumb down education here in the states makes Hong Kong a mere set for a Jackie Chan movie, and even that concept is dated. The tools of the world better start realizing how far down the toilet the U.S. is sliding, and start picking their benefactors more wisely.

  73. Paul says:

    Let Hong Kong, Tibet, and the Uyghur people live!

    • Replies: @Crow
  74. Aspnaz says:

    Because of the opium trade all HK protesters deserve what they get? I bet the author also thinks all white guys should be oppressed because of slavery? What is this, the SJW opinion on HK?

    • Replies: @Parsnipitous
  75. Jake says:

    “Smart and ruthless Jews like Bill Browder, Boris Berezovsky, Roman Abramovich made their fortunes, but Russia was ruined and its people were reduced to poverty.”

    That is the way the WASP Empire, the Anglo-Zionist Empire, provides freedom.

    Send your money to VDARE so it can call for more WASP Empire – which the WASP and Jewish Elites will fill with as many non-whites as they can entice in order to smash the white trash down forever, so that even more Jews become multi-billionaires. And we all can delight in speaking English, the language of international Jewry since WW2.

    • Replies: @Parsnipitous
  76. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Wally

    “HK was taken from China, China has the right to take it back.”

    Yes, but not until 2047, apparently:

    “One country, two systems” is a constitutional principle formulated by Deng Xiaoping, the Paramount Leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC), for the reunification of China during the early 1980s. He suggested that there would be only one China, but distinct Chinese regions such as Hong Kong and Macau could retain their own economic and administrative systems, while the rest of the PRC (or “Mainland China”) uses the socialism with Chinese characteristics system. Under the principle, each of the two regions could continue to have its own governmental system, legal, economic and financial affairs, including trade relations with foreign countries, all of which are independent from those of the Mainland….”

    “….Hong Kong was a colony of the United Kingdom, ruled by a governor appointed by the monarchy of the United Kingdom, for 156 years from 1841 (except for four years of Japanese occupation during WWII) until 1997, when it was returned to Chinese sovereignty. China agreed to accept some conditions, as is stipulated in the Sino-British Joint Declaration, such as the drafting and adoption of Hong Kong’s “mini-constitution” Basic Law before its return. The Hong Kong Basic Law ensured that Hong Kong will retain its capitalist economic system and own currency (the Hong Kong Dollar), legal system, legislative system, and people’s rights and freedom for fifty years, as a special administrative region (SAR) of China for 50 years. Set to expire in 2047, the current arrangement has permitted Hong Kong to function as its own entity under the name “Hong Kong, China” in many international settings….”

    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

    Its, “interesting” that[ unless I somehow missed it], this important detail was completely omitted from this very poorly written article, and from [at least] the first 56 comments in the thread.

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Wally
  77. TKK says:

    It’s amazing and troublesome that neither the article nor the comments acknowledge that HK has special status until 2047-and the entire brouhaha is over the extradition law in real time.

    HK protestors are not musing over Ancient Greece or the Opium wars or America’s MSM portrayals of their plight.

    If the extradition law is overturned, the big hand of China can reach in and grab HK political dissenters and disappear them. Thats the issue.

    Is it oppositional defiant disorder or stupidity or sheer arm chair arrogant ignorance that would compel safe Westerners to defend a ruthless Communist regime?

    No sane person would choose Beijing censorship and ham fisted rule over civilized, relaxed Hong Kong, from their British derived legal protections to social media freedom.

    This website is so skewed to marginalized, anti Western propaganda as to be rendered almost completely false in reporting *reality*.

  78. This easily wins the best title award at unz.com.

  79. onebornfree says: • Website

    onebornfree says: “Yes, but not until 2047, apparently”

    And by then, hopefully, the entirely disgusting current Chinese, anti- free market, murderous communist system will have completely collapsed [which, for economic reasons, it inevitably must], in the same way the USSR did before it, and as the US itself will, if its inhabitants insist on going even further down the exact same road – and which it [the US] has been on for at least 100 years.

    onebornfree

  80. @George

    Bruce Lee died 46 years ago.

    And HK stars find their way to Hollywood, inevitably. It pays better.

  81. onebornfree says: • Website
    @TKK

    TKK says:“It’s amazing and troublesome that neither the article nor the comments acknowledge that HK has special status until 2047-and the entire brouhaha is over the extradition law in real time.”

    Not amazing at all. Written by a moron, largely approved of by morons [ie statists, socialists, commies etc.] 🙂

    And so it goes….

    Regards, onebornfree

    • LOL: TKK
  82. Rurik says:
    @Priss Factor

    Chinese need to go there and use maximum force to wipe out the decadent scum.

    Some in the West complain about China’s social credit system, and I agree it’s bad, but we got the same shit here.

    Headlines (in red) on Drudge right now:

    Silicon Valley building Chinese-style social credit system…

    Scores affect insurance, where can eat, travel, more…

  83. Reading this (English political language crap) makes me sick, and am only doing so to take a little break from work. I am actually going to switch to Russian when not thinking in Chinese and I encourage others to do the same.

    Aside from copying over some comments of AnonFromTN yesterday, my latest blog posts have all been in Russian:

    https://gmachine1729.com/2019/08/

    I think China should switch its international language from English to Russian, would do a great deal to curb the Anglo world’s influence. English is a tasteless language anyway, Russian is so much more beautiful. Israel Shamir, would be happy to see a collection of your writings in Russian.

    Don’t want to say too much about HK, will just note that mainlanders don’t really care about them much. Much better things to do, their protests don’t really affect us at all.

    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
  84. From the comments so far, I notice that the usual Zionist, pro-Jewish, pro-Israeli crew around here (PeterAUS, Corvinus, Bardon Kaldian, TKK) also all happen to be virulently anti-China.

    Quite an interesting correlation. It seems to suggest something…

    • Agree: Parfois1
    • Replies: @TKK
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  85. Declane says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Why wasn’t China being imperial in America? Could it have something to do with their backwards culture that shuns innovation?

    Let’s face it – China was nothing but a mass of homogeneous slaves who learned to make a bit of art. Then the West finally broke through and instead of seeking to emulate us they just cargo culted the whole thing. China, now with escalators the Chinese can’t trust to not devour them like some giant mechanical beast. America’s malls might be gone, but we can rebuild. Can any Chinaman say the same of anything in his land? They can’t even get it right the first time.

    America’s greatest sin was slavery. I refuse to call out “imperialism” because it was the name of the global game at the time. It’s China’s fault they couldn’t earn a seat at the table. We didn’t tell them to stop exploring the seas.

  86. Republic says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Pro tip: regarding whistle blowers, don’t leak material to the Intercept,or you might end up like Reality Winner and several others who are now in Federal custody

  87. onebornfree says: • Website
    @George

    George says: “China might or might not be able to industrialize its economy through central planning…”.

    No. That’s just pure fantasy. Centralization of economies always fails eventually. Remember the USSR, er, “experiment” ?

    The intellectual and scientific arguments against centralization of economies [such as the USSR, Nazi Germany, China etc., and now, sadly, the US] was decisively won more than a hundred years ago.

    Persons such as Carl Menger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Menger ] and Ludwig Von Mises (https://mises.org/library/human-action-0 ] completely dismantled/destroyed the arguments for economic central planning as espoused by the likes of Marx, Hitler, Lenin, Mao [and sadly, all post-1900 US administrations, including Trumps].

    However, unfortunately, as George Santayana observed: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – because idiots never learn, and always get taken in by the new crooked politician advertising something for nothing, “democracy for all” etc. etc.

    To whit: “Government is always a way for the few to exploit the many. But it’s not always the same few.” Bill Bonner

    “Society is, always has been and always will be a structure for the exploitation and oppression of the majority through systems of political force dictated by an élite, enforced by thugs, uniformed or not, and upheld by a wilful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the very majority whom the system oppresses.” Richard K. Morgan

    “Intellectuals and scientists and technologists have adopted the viewpoint that, since they can see the whole of society from above, and since they can understand its workings in clearer and evermore specific terms, and since they understand the vast field of natural resources, they can and should plan and plot the future of humanity. This belief is a form of insanity.” Jon Rappoport

    George says:”….IMO, mainland Chinese authorities just don’t understand the HK economy and are mostly chosing policies they consider convenient.”

    In the end, its all about the convenience of being able to steal more money to try to stave off an inevitable economic collapse.

    The Chinese economy is going bust, fast, right now, as we speak/write here .

    This [China going bust] was/ is inevitable. The more a country centralizes its economy, the poorer the general population becomes [and the richer its psychopathic demagogues become] .

    China is getting desperate. It sees Hong Kongs wealth as a way to prop its murderous, failing, communist scam game up for a little longer, that’s all. The same goes for Taiwan.

    Its all about wealth , just sitting there, ready to be stolen by the commies on the mainland to further enrich those at the very top of the pyramid of power, in order to save themselves [ not the average Chinaman or woman] from complete financial obliteration, which is coming- fast!

    Regards, onebornfree

  88. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Mr. Shamir, since you so generously use the loathsome word nigger, your next article should feature a Jew slur, like kike or heeb.

    Here’s a suggestion: “The Kikes in Charge of the US Treasury”

  89. onebornfree says: • Website

    “Amazing Footage Of Hong Kong Protesters Defying Communist Chinese-Controlled Police
    Protesters want freedom – China wants control”:

    “Revolution Against Tyranny Is A Human Right”:

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  90. Rurik says:

    We can distinguish a real people’s rising and foreign-inspired interventions on behalf of the compradors. The first one will be silenced while the second will be glorified by the New York Times. It is that simple.

    Well put Sir.

    And spot on true.

    It is really the perfect metric for understanding the underlying motivations and relative merit, (or lack there of) for any geopolitical event or movement.

    Should the people of Crimea be able to determine their own destiny?

    Just look to the NYT to understand the nuances of that region and conflict. If they say Crimea is foundering under Russian tyranny, then you can be 100% certain the opposite is the truth.

    Did the US foment democracy in (Yats is the guy) Ukraine? Read the NYT, and it all gets spelled out. Assad’s chemical attacks, moderate rebels.. From MH17 to ‘Russian aggression’, you can find ‘all the truth that’s fit to print’. Only inversed.

    Hong Kong, Donbas, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Charlottesville, Yellow Vests, Gaza, Russian hacking and collusion.. and on and on and on. It’s an invaluable tool for understanding our times and the motivations and principles (or lack there of) being brought to bear.

    And as you mention, for the really salient things, (like serial aggressive wars based on lies, treasonous atrocities writ large, and assorted war crimes, DNC corruption, GOP corruption, et al ad nauseam), one must listen to the crickets, who speak thunderously of these things, with their telling silence.

    Rampant white supremacists shooting people right and left, are bull-horned by the screeching -silence over every POC who’s a mass-shooter’.

    By carefully not reporting some things, and outright lies and distortions with others, the NYT has become an invaluable tool for glimmering the ((moral abomination)) of our times.

    We should all be very grateful for their solid and predictable efforts.

  91. Wally says:
    @onebornfree

    So what?

    – That agreement does not give complete independence & sovereignty to HK.
    – That agreement does not allow rioters to engage in destructive, disruptive, violent actions.
    – That agreement mandates that the HK administration maintain order, which heretofore they have not.
    – Therefore that agreement has been violated, invalidated by the HK administration.

    China has the right & responsibility to maintain order in HK. HK is theirs, they are rightfully taking it back.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  92. getaclue says:
    @Biff

    LOL — why don’t you go full tard and claim I’m a Russian bot? I notice you don’t discuss the findings of the Independent Tribunal? Of course not. The only propagandists here are those like you– no one has “debunked” the Tribunal and other factual findings of the persecution by the Chinese Communist Party of minorities in China– Muslim, Falun Gong, Catholic (with the phony State sponsored group the pro-Communist Vatican/Pope are now unfortunately “recognizing” much to the despair and hurt of the true Catholic Church there that has been persecuted for decades….)– Religious and otherwise. The question is much more as to who is paying you to come onto sites like this to post such a garbage comment–Beijing?– or are you just a pro-Communist loser?

    • Replies: @FB
    , @denk
  93. @Bardon Kaldian

    Some look to the Bible for guidance but you have shown, once again, that the real root to European man’s intellectual and ethical history lies in Greek thought. Those who worship the people and God of the Old and New Testament idolise an alien deity and bow down to a foreign despot.

    It is sad and ironic that many commenters here on Unz disparage any study of subjects other than STEM as being a futile waste of time as well as the mark of a second-rate mind. Study of the Greeks is needed to inform and arm a European mind against Semitic master/slave morality.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Anonymous
  94. I quickly gave up reading the article, which is about something Shamir may have opinions about – fit at least to stand for a while during the circulation of the port – but on which he has no authority from knowledge or experience. I gave up when he bloviated about thecrespinsibility of Hong Kong people today, mustly descended from those escaping Communist China in its early days, for what happened 150+ years ago when Hong Kong had a tiny population under British rule.

    Is there a reason to finish reading this article?

    BTW, can anyone add to my dog-that-didn’t-bark puzzle? I have more than once raised the obvious possibility that some of the disorder is the work of CCP agents provocateurs, especially the trashing of LegCo. Yet I have read not a word of follow up or any response positive or negative. Odd?

  95. Only the degenerate mind would think that mainland China should get their filthy murderous hands on HongKong. There are too many reasons for this that if you can’t think of any then you don’t have the capacity to be anything other than a useless eater.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Anounder
  96. Rurik says:
    @Greg Bacon

    the loathsome word nigger,

    Do you know why that word is loathsome to you?

    It’s because of the object of its meaning.

    Nigger simply means a black person. A house nigger in the south, simply meant a black slave that worked in the house, as opposed to a field slave. The word itself is neutral, like Negro, or Nigeria, it comes from the Latin nigreos, from which the Spanish negro = black.

    That people use slangs to describe certain ethnicities is as old as human beings. Swedes are often called ‘square heads’, Germans = ‘krauts’, white people = crackers, or honkeys, or ‘whiteys’.

    The only reason ‘nigger’ is considered such a verboten pejorative, it because the object of its description –

    .. is so, as you mention, loathsome.

    No one but the worst kind of racist hates all black folks, but using the word ‘nigger’ (or wigger for that matter, in the case of a white nigger) to describe a certain kind of person, is nothing more or less than the correct and efficient use of language.

    I abhor the kind of doublethink, political correctness that permeates and debases our society. If a nigger is a nigger, then say so. Black people do, by suggesting that white people aren’t allowed, what your implying is that all white people have a sort of guilt, that forbids them from using certain descriptive words. I say fuck that shit. I’ll call a spade, a spade all day long, if that’s what it is.

    • Agree: bruce county
    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  97. Laughing.

    So in a society that is ignoring scripture more and more. The answer to the our societies ill according to many of you is

    Scripture.

    I think the real cause of this manner of peculiar logic.

    —————————————

    I read this article two days ago and I am still unsure how to get past the title given that slaves in the US who worked “in the house” were still in fact slaves under lock, key, whip and rope.

    The use of the term in this title (derrogatory as it may be) is dramatic but completely out of sync with reality to time, space and circumstance.

    The analogy is failure.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  98. Rollmop says:
    @Dutch Boy

    In that case those people would be misinformed. The extradition bill was an amendment to existing legislation that has been operating effectively since *before* the handover to China. Indeed, the addition of China as a “prescribed place” under that legislation was predicated on even more stringent precautions for China than are applied already to other countries already covered by the legislation.

    The fact is that most Hong Kongers are too stupid to understand the proposed law. I live in HK. I am incredulous that this is the hill they have chosen to die upon. Learning that people I have always admired are genuinely stupid has been a depressing experience.

  99. ANON[117] • Disclaimer says:

    You and Brabantian,

    Disinformation

  100. Rurik says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Study of the Greeks is needed to inform and arm a European mind against Semitic master/slave morality.

    well said!

    And Rome as well, and Byzantium and our historic collective mythos and mythologies and sagas and such a lush and proud and glorious heritage, that almost no Westerners today are even aware of. (it isn’t on the TV, for instance, so unless it’s written on Kim Kardasian’s ass, few know about it).

    How many people do you know who know where we got the names for the days of the week, for instance?

    For thousands upon thousands of years our ancestors struggled and fought and loved and pondered our existence, and created amazing meanings and poetic names for the constellations and our Gods and Goddesses and assorted mythologies.

    But all of that was anathema to the Christian narrative and the priests and monks whose cushy life and power and wealth was all predicated upon a single, brutally enforced dogma. So that like the Library of Alexandria, all else was burned and destroyed and declared heresy.

    It’s long past time to resurrect our collective heritage and amazing past.

    Considering the ubiquitous lies and devil’s narratives of the NYT, (et al) I hope advocating actual truths is not too far off topic.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  101. Moscow protesters dream of a Russia occupied by NATO forces, not of democracy. They believe that they, pro-Western, educated, entrepreneurial, would form the comprador class and prosper at the expense of hoi polloi. Mercifully, they aren’t plentiful: the Russians already tried to live under benign Western occupation between 1991 and 2000, when the IMF directed their finances and American advisers from Harvard ran the state machinery. Smart and ruthless Jews like Bill Browder, Boris Berezovsky, Roman Abramovich made their fortunes, but Russia was ruined and its people were reduced to poverty.

    “Western occupation” and “American advisers” are deceptive terms because the culprits here were Jews, primarily Jeffrey David Sachs cloaked in the disguise of legitimacy as a Harvard economist. He orchestrated the Jew thievery from Russians. The Jews he grew up among are still acting similarly in their disguise of legitimacy (judicial robes, i.e., the jewdiciary) to rob the goy white citizenry of their home vicinity.

  102. Che Guava says:

    Mr. Shamir,

    I agree with much of the article.

    Re. your first para., at the time of the British recognising that the lease was over (and was huriedly setting up political institutions to make future trouble), there were no ‘smart devices’, which I think of as ‘stupid devices’.
    The pioneer of ”smart devices’ was NTT in Japan, which started including a form of Java script on 25 -key phones. Simple games amd logic games (the’room-escape”genre is from that time) started there.

    The manufacturers didn’t want to break the barriers between different product categories (game handheld, although I much prefer dedicated Nintendo games to any ‘smart’ phone crap, except a few geometric or other mathematical puzzlers, camera, phone, minicomputer, etc.).

    Our manufacturers in Japan (particularly Sharp, with the excellent, but hard to connect Zaurus), and several in Europe (notably Psion/Tektronics products, deliberately avoided it). Sure, their later products were to some extent connectable, but not very well.

    I hate to say, I am not stupid and had worked out the obvious solution years before Jobs, but since most of my work is for a chip designer and maker, and related to such, and I don’t have a lot of money or influence, my lack of consciousness of reality has no bearing on what the situation is now.
    Returning to HK, I probably repeat an earlier post, but being landed at the old Kai Tak airport was a frightening and exciting and beautiful experience, the pilots were tilting sharply to avoid hitting the buildings, I am very glad to have experienced it.

  103. annamaria says:
    @TKK

    “anti-Western propaganda…”

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3003381/gruesome-taiwan-murder-lies-behind-hong-kong-leader-carrie

    Suspect in death of pregnant Hongkonger killed on holiday cannot stand trial because there is no agreement between two places [Hong Kong and China].

    The policy change is aimed at plugging loopholes exposed by a homicide case in February last year, in which Taiwanese authorities were unable to prosecute a Hongkonger accused of killing his pregnant girlfriend in Taipei before fleeing to Hong Kong.

    As it stands, suspects can be surrendered to one of the 20 countries with which Hong Kong has an extradition deal. The 46 offenses they can be handed over for include murder, hacking, smuggling, and tax evasion, as well as 15 corporate crimes such as fraud, corruption and money laundering.

    What exactly is “anti-Western propaganda” in the above facts?
    “Set to expire in 2047, the current arrangement has permitted Hong Kong to function as its own entity under the name “Hong Kong, China” in many international settings.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

    A young pregnant woman was murdered. The murderer decided to hide in Hong Kong because of the legal loophole. – China does not belong to the “20 countries with which Hong Kong has an extradition deal.”

    On what side are you, ” TKK?” — Guess on a side of the “progressives” and “humanitarian” interventionists that have gifted the world irradiated Serbia (sprinkled with depleted uranium), a slave market in the formerly prosperous Libya, the maimed and murdered children in Syria, and the civil war in zionized Ukraine.

    • Replies: @TKK
  104. Rurik says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I am still unsure how to get past the title given that slaves..

    blah, blah..

    then why are you giggling and laughing and making an ass of yourself, if you’re so appalled at the word ‘nigger’?

    shouldn’t you be crying and sobbing in the fetal position?

    instead you’re laughing!

    at long last sir, have you no decency?

    He said nigger, and yet you laugh!

  105. annamaria says: • Website
    @Corvinus

    “they want to restore home rule.”

    — You mean, the following is anathema for the people of Hong Kong:

    The 46 offenses they can be handed over for include murder, hacking, smuggling, and tax evasion, as well as 15 corporate crimes such as fraud, corruption, and money laundering.

    Your sloganeering reminds of the freedom-fighting Bill Browder and Cardin-promoted Magnitsky Act. These “other people” in Russia and China want to strengthen a rule of law — how disagreeable for the “progressives.”

    By the way, “Corvinus,” why have you usurped the name of the great Hungarian?

  106. sarz says:
    @Priss Factor

    China should do a ‘Kashmir’ on Hong Kong.

    Someone should do a Kashmir on you. A blast of birdshot to the head for deliberate blinding. It gets better. Kashmiri doctors finally managed to save partial vision in some eyes, so Modi declared that round birdshot should no longer be used. It’s irregular pellets now.

  107. Alfred says:
    @Vedic Hyperborean

    the kind of people who would side with a distant foreign power over their own countrymen

    Has been known to happen in your Congress. So who are the real house niggers?

    PM Netanyahu Addresses US Congress

    • LOL: Malla
  108. @Paw

    Nobody can dispute what you say. And Bill Bowder is a murderer, a thief and a criminal keeping out of limelight. His spiritual brother was our very own Jeffery Epstein.

  109. TKK says:
    @Ghan-buri-Ghan

    Not “virulently anti China”.

    I do not genuflect to any type of group think. China gets some things very right (high speed trains and encouraging entrepreneurs come to mind).

    However, I have read too much Solzhenitsyn and the accounts of NK refugees (ACTUAL refugees) that are returned by the PRC to guaranteed torture and death when they cross the Yalu River to pretend that Communism is rainbows and glitter cup cakes.

    And PRC is Communist.

    As usual with Internet know it alls- have you been to China? Have you sat with the native born who are the nail that gets hammered down when it stands up?

    Do realize this very website would only be accessible through VPN in PRC?

    Are you that dense to not grasp that your big mouth loon conspiracy theories would only be heard by your dog, family or the kitchen wall? (If said dog was not kidnapped and eaten)

    Not on any social media platform.

    But this is the country you defend? Are you stupid, delusional, or just bored?

  110. TKK says:
    @annamaria

    I can’t discern anything of value to respond to in your comment.

    But whose side am I on?

    The working class- e.g. the miners in Kentucky holding the coal ransom for their paychecks.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  111. “then why are you giggling and laughing and making an ass of yourself, if you’re so appalled at the word ‘n . . .’?

    shouldn’t you be crying and sobbing in the fetal position?

    instead you’re laughing!”

    I think you have made an incorrect assumption. You are assuming that my laughter turns on the word laughter. That simply is not the case. My laughter is to the idea that the people of Hong Kong in question actually reflect the term in question. In comparison that simply does not pan out to be the case. The comparison would be better likened to to “free blacks” in the US and then of course one would not use the term in reference to free blacks who far more access to wealth than any slave could but dream.

    I am not even sure that comparison is accurate, but it is far closer than the use of term employed. The issue here is accuracy, not the initial response to the term in question one ,might expect to its derogatory semantic in the US. It reminds me of the use of the term slavery used by women, especially white women and homosexuals to their status in the US. That will often elicit a laugh, an eye roll of something similar. Not because slavery is funny, but the comparison certainly is. As it is here.

    You have simply chosen an incorrect frame for where and why I laugh. I cannot and would tell you what to think. You are certainly welcome to hang on to your perspective as you presented it. However, it would not be in any way reflective of my experience end expressed comments about the same.

    The analogy in the article, use of the term, to population class is based on what the term means is incorrect.

    I am not laughing about what you assume I am laughing about.

    But I did find your assumption humorous.

  112. onebornfree says: • Website

    Uh-oh: Silicon Valley is building a Chinese-style social credit system
    “In China, scoring citizens’ behavior is official government policy. U.S. companies are increasingly doing something similar, outside the law”:

    “Have you heard about China’s social credit system? It’s a technology-enabled, surveillance-based nationwide program designed to nudge citizens toward better behavior. The ultimate goal is to “allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step,” according to the Chinese government.”

    “In place since 2014, the social credit system is a work in progress that could evolve by next year into a single, nationwide point system for all Chinese citizens, akin to a financial credit score. It aims to punish for transgressions that can include membership in or support for the Falun Gong or Tibetan Buddhism, failure to pay debts, excessive video gaming, criticizing the government, late payments, failing to sweep the sidewalk in front of your store or house, smoking or playing loud music on trains, jaywalking, and other actions deemed illegal or unacceptable by the Chinese government.”

    “It can also award points for charitable donations or even taking one’s own parents to the doctor.”

    “Punishments can be harsh, including bans on leaving the country, using public transportation, checking into hotels, hiring for high-visibility jobs, or acceptance of children to private schools. It can also result in slower internet connections and social stigmatization in the form of registration on a public blacklist.”

    “China’s social credit system has been characterized in one pithy tweet as “authoritarianism, gamified……….Many Westerners are disturbed by what they read about China’s social credit system. But such systems, it turns out, are not unique to China. A parallel system is developing in the United States, in part as the result of Silicon Valley and technology-industry user policies, and in part by surveillance of social media activity by private companies……”:

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90394048/uh-oh-silicon-valley-is-building-a-chinese-style-social-credit-system

    Regards, onebornfree

  113. Dutch Boy says:
    @Mark Hunter

    Shamir is way ahead of you – he’s a Christian Stalinist.

  114. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    How boring the Brits , they want to get out of the EU ( shut up and go go go ) . They miss so much the British Empire that they paying a legion of coolies in Hong Kong to organize a color revolution against China . At least with so many indians , pakistanis and blacks in England probably they english feel the Bristish Empire is alive and well , enjoy it .

  115. Paul says:

    Communist elites do not like the defiance of the masses. Will China resort to the Pol Pot solution in Hong Kong? The struggle continues.

  116. @gmachine1729

    You can read me in Russian on the Facebook, in the RT Russian, and in Zavtra. Welcome!

  117. annamaria says:
    @Farrakhan.DDuke.AliceWalker.AllAgree

    Don’t forget Robert Maxwell’s protege Bill Browder, the alleged warrior for democracy. Never mind that Bill Browder is a tax cheat, fraudster, and patented liar. He has been also accused of ordering the killings of inconvenient witnesses to his crimes in Russia.

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/rule-of-law/epstein-his-connection-to-the-club-of-manipulators/

    https://www.rt.com/russia/444340-browder-magnitsky-murder-moscow/

    British financier Browder was once a well-connected investor in post-Soviet Russia, but he became a fugitive from the law in the country after being accused of financial crimes. In the West, however, he is best known as the employer of Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian accountant who died in police custody while being investigated in connection to the Browder case. Magnitsky’s death became an international scandal, with Browder accusing Russian officials of killing him.

    Russian prosecutors on Monday claimed that Magnitsky and several other people familiar with Browder’s illicit activities in Russia may have been killed on his order. They said a new criminal case has been opened against Browder in Russia, and that Moscow will seek his extradition as an alleged ringleader of an international criminal enterprise involved in money laundering.

    https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2990773

    Bill Browder, the darling of American zionists:

  118. Crow says:

    Hong Kong is a pirate state where criminals hide their ill-gotten loot. China should bring them to heel and confiscate this Hong Kong wealth.

    • Replies: @frankie p
  119. Crow says:
    @Paul

    “Let them live [under neoliberal American geopolitical vassalage]!”

  120. Chinaman says:
    @Parbes

    Your words are thunder in my ears. I admit I am weak and selfish.

    I lack the fervent and determination of the other camp to defend HK.

    We are the silent majority.

    A large part of me just hope it will die down and I don’t have to stand up to my HK brethrens but I realise now this is wishful thinking and some house nigger cleaning is in order.

  121. d dan says:

    Those comments who claim that the Hong Kong “protests” are for freedom, democracy, etc are so easily proved wrong. Considering:

    1. Hong Kong is currently enjoying more freedom and democracy than in any time of the 150 years of UK rule. So, please tell, why didn’t we see protests for free election before 1997? Why didn’t we see protests against police brutality (yes, UK were very brutal in suppressing labor activists, communist sympathizers, etc).

    2. If it is for freedom,why do they wave UK or US flags? Why do they want to part of UK? Don’t they know Hong Kong currently enjoy more freedom than UK or US? (e.g. docile and tolerant police, lowest income tax rate, less prisoner population, no political correctness crap, etc.)

    3. If it is about the extradition law, why isn’t there protest against extradition agreement with US or UK too? Don’t they know US has many extra-territorial and oppressive laws? (e.g. try setup a company in Hong Kong to trade with Iran and you can get detained a.k.a. Huawei CFO style).

    4. Don’t they know extradition can proceed only if it is also considered a crime in Hong Kong too?

    5. etc… (many others)

    Given all the above, it is very clear to any NEUTRAL person to see that the whole exercise is a color-revolution in disguise, meant to give PRC troubles, perhaps doubled as bargain chip in the trade war. And those commenters who support the so-called “protests” have revealed themselves to be the anti-China haters, racists or paid trolls.

    • Agree: Biff, annamaria
    • Replies: @Thirdeye
  122. Chinaman says:
    @Slave Nation

    Why shouldn’t a government which have lifted 800 million out of abject poverty and building infrastructure all over the world rule HK. None of this rubbish would have happened if HK was handed over to China on day 1 and we cleaned out the fifth columns, the British house niggers and CIA assets.

    Can’t wait till China takes over but HKer will have destroyed HK before 2047.

    The Chinese government now is not the same one as under Mao. There are no perfect political system. The British never gave a iota of freedom to Us in 150 years of rule and treated us like dirt. The most murderous government in the world after 1960s are the Americans, I count 10-15 million directly and indirectly.

  123. Thirdeye says:
    @Corvinus

    “Really, whether the fully equipped army of troops massacred peaceful ordinary folks inside or outside the Square makes very little difference. It is not even worthwhile to have this discussion at all.”

    It makes all the difference in the world. The circumstances on the square were well known. The circumstances of confrontations between soldiers and bands of dispersed demonstrators are not so well known. It is easy to construe the bloodshed as gratuitous violence by the army if it is associated with the images of peaceful demonstrators gathered in the square. As we saw from from the experience of the BLM riots, the rioting didn’t usually occur within the official demonstrations; it occurred when self-selected bands gathered on the periphery to start burning and looting. There is no reason to doubt that the streets of Beijing were filled with bands of youth angry over the dispersal of the demonstration, looking to vent their rage in confrontations with authority.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  124. Cortes says:
    @Greg Bacon

    Heeb (I’ve seen it more often as “Hebe”) may well be a pejorative word for Hebrew but what’s the problem with kike? It just refers to the ringlets worn by many Hasidic Jews. See

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/688482.How_the_Irish_Invented_Slang

    for the reference and explanation.

    https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.gsjj-ZDGruQDV-JSGmmbHQHaE8%26pid%3DApi&f=1

    • Replies: @Patricus
  125. peterAUS says:
    @Thirdeye

    Yes.
    Still, the question remains: why use live ammo in the “shoot to kill” policy?

    Either way you cut it, it’s hard to imagine a proper reason(s) for that. There wasn’t martial law/curfew with related ROE given to the troops.
    There wasn’t really need for self-defense either. The troops were advancing/marching in at least company-sized units. Helmets, rifles with bayonets, unit cohesion. Hard to imagine protesters posing any real threat to them.

    Let’s cut to the chase.
    The firing was a “message”. Obey the order to disperse/leave or get shot. Not beaten, arrested…shot. Not with rubber/plastic bullets by marksmen. By volley fire of conscript type troops. Shot to get killed.

    Hard. Efficient.

    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    , @annamaria
  126. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Good one , the photo of the article .

    Why the angloamericans like so much the photos of cretins with posters and flags ?

    Fotographers lie more with images than writers with words .

  127. Paul says:

    China’s rulers have found the Hong Kong Resistance more difficult to contain than was Tiananmen Square. The struggle continues.

  128. Patricus says:
    @nsa

    Was this an automated translation?

  129. Patricus says:
    @Cortes

    Elsewhere I read that the term “Kike” came from a Yiddish word, kikel (spelling ?) meaning circle. When illiterates came to the US from Europe the Christians signed their names with an X. Illiterate Jews signed with a circle to distinguish themselves from Christians. The X was also an ancient symbol for Christ. Ellis Island employees would say “here’s another ship full of kikels” later shortened to kikes. It wasn’t considered an ethnic slur until later years

    The story of the Jewish ringlets in their hair could be accurate as these are circles of a sort. Most Jewish immigrants were European Ashkenazis however and probably only a minority had the somewhat kinky Semitic hair.

  130. Thirdeye says:
    @d dan

    The grievances of Hong Kong’s population are more economic than political, and they are more about conditions specific to Hong Kong than to China as a whole. Hong Kong’s real economy (value-added goods and services) has stagnated while the mainland’s has grown by leaps and bounds. That has changed the relative economic power of Hong Kong and mainlanders. Hong Kong has experienced an asset bubble, driven in part by land policy manipulated to the benefit of Hong Kong’s elite, and an influx of wealthy mainlanders who are squeezing the locals in the housing market. The locals are caught in a situation of low property ownership rates, high debt, and rising rent.

    The political demands are incoherent and illogical in light of the real conditions driving dissatisfaction. They resent the mainlanders able to establish themselves with wealth generated outside of Hong Kong, and sometimes with questionable practices, yet their opposition to the extradition bill favors a status quo that makes Hong Kong a attractive to mainlanders who seek a haven from China’s laws. The protests express an unfocused rage more than anything else, with a large portion directed towards mainlanders and Mandarin speakers. But the real source of that rage is local economic policy.

    • Replies: @d dan
  131. Thirdeye says:
    @peterAUS

    There are many open questions about the tactical acuity and discipline of the PLA units involved in the skirmishes. It could have been a Chicago 1968 situation with live ammo. But whatever the scenario it’s a far cry from the narrative that the Chinese government decided to kill a bunch of demonstrators to teach them a lesson, which is what was fed by western media.

    One thing that gets overlooked is that the CCP quietly made concessions to many of the demands of the Tienanmen uprising after the situation calmed down. Of course they weren’t going to present them as such, as that would have involved loss of face.

  132. peterAUS says:

    …it’s a far cry from the narrative that the Chinese government decided to kill a bunch of demonstrators to teach them a lesson, which is what was fed by western media…

    Not those on the square.
    Not so sure about those not on the square but all over the city. Especially in workers parts.

    There is ONE element nobody wants to address. Reasons are obvious.

    Maybe you could try: class/social layer/position of the demonstrators.

    As: easy on “our kids”. Hard on the working class/underclass rabble.

  133. FB says: • Website
    @getaclue

    ‘Independent Tribunal’…?

    ‘The Guardian’…

    Fcuk off troll…

    • Replies: @getaclue
  134. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    Shamir’s columns are a great place to read about the improvement and “cleansing” of millions/billions by “reeducation”, be it the Bolsheviks’ or Mao’s (I still haven’t read him praising Pol Pot and the Khmer, but maybe he has already).

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  135. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Actually, the dishonesty or incompetence of our MSM is *vastly* greater than you’re making it out to be.

    .

    If I understand, you have been for some time wishing that our MSM may turn as honest and competent as the People’s Republic of China’s.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  136. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @ThreeCranes

    It is sad and ironic that many commenters here on Unz disparage any study of subjects other than STEM as being a futile waste of time as well as the mark of a second-rate mind.

    Well, it’s a natural thing to do with things that one doesn’t understand; don’t you think?

    Another natural thing is to praise, and want to follow, empires that look strong and on the rise. Especially if one doesn’t live there, it’s so comfortable and rewarding, who wouldn’t do it.
    Do you see an argument between a bigger and a smaller party? Side with the big one! I mean, who wouldn’t.
    Then if you are also well educated, white nice columns to explain the beauty of it to readers.

  137. frankie p says:
    @Crow

    Yes, but they should then set up affordable housing projects for the 100 surnames in Hong Kong with that wealth. They need a Robin Hood approach to the situation, taking into account the fact that the main issues for the young protesters are economic issues: the prospect of declining economic prosperity and no chance to ever own a house. Li Kai Shin, the oligarch multi-billionaire who took out ads in the Hong Kong papers last week pleading for no violence, can see the writing on the wall. China should strip him and his fellow oligarchs, all of whom made their money with regulated industries set up by the British, of their ill-gotten wealth and share it with the marginalized. Win hearts and minds.

  138. DB Cooper says:

    The people who took to the streets are losers. But that such massive protests are even possible suggest that these people are operating in a permissive environment that acquiesce to such behavior. The time when the Chinese Communist party came to power are within the living memory of many people in Hong Kong (or their children), who fled to Hong Kong from the mainland during the civil war between the CCP and the KMT. These people most likely have families that their properties were confiscated, can recall repeated violations of past pledges by the CCP (when the CCP was still fighting the civil war it makes many pledges to the so called bourgeoisie class of not confiscating people’s properties), of this and of that.

    Under Mao the CCP has been conceding China’s territory left and right without a care in the world, resulting in the largest loss of Chinese territory in recent history (Outer Mongolia and South Tibet are two notable lost, but there are many more.). Today’s territory of the PRC is two size smaller than when it was when the ROC was running the mainland. Then the Cultural Revolution came and resulted in massive destruction of China’s cultural relics and heavy suppression of traditional Chinese culture and the beating up and persecution of countless people who one way or the other found themselves in that hapless situation. After Mao the CCP gradually reinvented itself as a nationalist party and a defender of Chinese culture. But it wasn’t so not that long ago.

    This is the reason that in the mind of most overseas (Hong Kong and Taiwan) Chinese, the CCP has never gain legitimacy. This is the fundamental reasons that make these protests possible.

  139. Anon[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @George

    IMO, mainland Chinese authorities just don’t understand the HK economy and are mostly chosing policies they consider convenient.

    You have no idea what you are talking about. China authorities have very little influence in HK. HKers can whatever do they want. They screw themselves up by letting real estate tycoons do whatever they want. They had a few opportunities to reinvent their economy, but didn’t fail to do so due to the opposition from these rich assholes. I would say 99% of the HK ruling elites and their family have a foreign passport. Most of them don’t care about the long term health of HK. They just want to make as much money as they can and get the hell out before the 50 years agreement is ended.

    Listen to this British guy, a former HK chief prosecutor, who knows a thing or two about HK and know what is ailing HK.

    • Replies: @Anon
  140. Anon[267] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    But didn’t fail to do so —> but failed to do so

    The top 10 richest people in HK are real estate tycoons.

  141. d dan says:
    @Thirdeye

    “The grievances of Hong Kong’s population are more economic than political…”

    But the 5 demands are all non-economic in nature. And if the grievances are really economic, why throw the flag into the ocean? Why vandalize all the political and police buildings? Why even calling Trump to start trade-war with Hong Kong, which of course will make Hong Kong economy worsen? Why,…, etc. You know what I mean.

    The whole protest smells so fishy.

  142. Anon[233] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Think tor works? Well it does, if you’re the FBI (at least since 2012)

    https://www.wired.com/2014/12/fbi-metasploit-tor/

    Naw, I’m not impressed with Israel’s infatuation with the big-shot bull-shitters (Assange, Snowdon, Greenwald) who’ve steered people into the arms of the security state (Reality Winner?)

    The Wired article is talking about what used to be called Tor Hidden Services, which is now called Tor Onion Services. This has nothing to do with Tor used for e-mail or web use (Tor Browser Bundle), which is safe.

    Even Tor Onion Services is safe if you do not used shared servers. Silk Road used it and was only shut down when the FBI found out the name of the guy using normal investigative techniques.

    The reason that Tor Onion Services is unsafe in a shared environment is that another customer can use web app software that is buggy and might return the IP address in an error message. You don’t want anyone else on your Tor Onion Service server.

    Once the FBI knows the IP address, they know where the machine is physically located, and they can serve the host with a subpoena and their techs can just examine the contents of the server directly, which Tor doesn’t, and was never intended, to block. The server itself isn’t encrypted or anything.

  143. @Ghan-buri-Ghan

    Nailed it. If you want to understand what is going on between the US and China right now, you simply have to ask: what does Organized Jewry want? Big picture, they are pivoting towards India as their current American host is bled dry (and increasingly lacks the internal political will to allocate resources towards Israel’s wars). Likely they are viewing India as their next stop, for a number of reasons. (Caste-based system, conflicts with Muslims, and national inferiority complex towards China that can be flattered/manipulated). Hence the need to start harassing and softening up China as a means of fomenting future conflict as cover.

  144. @Greg Bacon

    But we can agree that people like Dinesh D’Souza and Rammesh Ponnuru are the house niggers of neoconservatism, can we not?

  145. Weblurker says:
    @Ron Unz

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/tiananmen-square-massacre-death-toll-secret-cable-british-ambassador-1989-alan-donald-a8126461.html
    At least 10,000 people died in Tiananmen Square massacre, secret British cable from the time alleged

    FWIW, one estimate of about 10,000 dead from the British ambassador.

    The massacre was brutal, allegedly running over people with tanks and APCs until they were completely flattened, called “making pies”. Then the remains were washed into the sewer system.

    • LOL: Ron Unz
  146. gutta percha [AKA "gp"] says:

    I feel sorry for the HK folks waving American flags, because I seriously doubt that the USA will help them when the tanks roll in. If we try, we stand a fair chance of losing a carrier group, and/or a few USA cities, to Chinese nuclear attack. I think the Chinese would sacrifice many of their cities, to destroy just one of ours; they’ve said as much.

    When it happens, nobody will trust news stories or official accounts explaining how it happened. We’ll have the worst cataclysm in human history, and nobody will even know the real truth behind it, and nobody will be “liberated.”

    Plus, no more cheap tech goods for the survivors of the free world, since all our chips and computers are made in Asia, for some reason I don’t understand.

  147. Anonymous[292] • Disclaimer says:

    That the US and the West are often wrong does not make China right.

    • Replies: @Ghan-buri-Ghan
  148. Yee says:

    TKK,

    “Do realize this very website would only be accessible through VPN in PRC?”

    Actually, this website is open in PRC, so is CNN and Daily Mail, and WSJ, FT, Reuters have Chinese version. I don’t read all publications, so I can’t name other ones that are open.

    Also, plenty of NK illegals live in China, other nationalities too, I may add. N Koreans who got deported weren’t ordinary refugees.

    And I’m quite sure that people who openly advocate “everything the US does is right” in China have it far easier than their counterparts in the US. Even on social media, people are asking why Weibo don’t ban pro-US accounts while Twitter, Facebook, youtube are banning pro-China accounts.

    And I’m not sure who is living in a fake world, mainland Chinese or Americans…

    Gillian Bolsover, a research associate at the University of Oxford’s Oxford Internet
    Institute, and Philip Howard a professor and the Director of Research at the
    Oxford Internet Institute, did a research on manipulation of information about Chinese politics on Twitter and Weibo in 2018. And found “little evidence of automation was found on Weibo, but a large amount of automation was found on Twitter. Also,

    “However, contrary to expectations and previous news reports, no
    evidence was found of pro-Chinese-state automation on Twitter.
    Automation on Twitter was associated with anti-Chinese-state
    perspectives…”

  149. @Farrakhan.DDuke.AliceWalker.AllAgree

    Don’t forget how the repulsive Larry Summers ran interference at Harvard for his thieving protege Andrei
    Schleifer:

    https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b150npp3q49x7w/how-harvard-lost-russia

    Talk about putting the “con” in Econ.

  150. Yee says:

    Chinaman,

    “I lack the fervent and determination of the other camp to defend HK.
    We are the silent majority.
    A large part of me just hope it will die down and I don’t have to stand up to my HK brethrens but I realise now this is wishful thinking and some house nigger cleaning is in order.”

    What you lack is a leadership on par with the CIA… The opposition is resourceful, well planned and well organized, you’re not. HongKong’s genuine local political groups is a joke.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  151. Yee says:

    DB Cooper,

    “The people who took to the streets are losers. But that such massive protests are even possible suggest that these people are operating in a permissive environment that acquiesce to such behavior. The time when the Chinese Communist party came to power are within the living memory of many people in Hong Kong (or their children), who fled to Hong Kong from the mainland during the civil war between the CCP and the KMT. ”

    Actually, the pro-China people in HongKong is the older generation, the young generation is anti-China. The riot is the result of current indoctrinate of media and education institutes, not of past grieve.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @DB Cooper
  152. getaclue says:
    @FB

    Forbes moron! (and sources galore for anyone not a moron or propagandist for the Communists who bothers to look….) How’s the weather in Beijing?: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/18/china-killing-prisoners-to-harvest-organs-for-transplant-tribunal-finds/#17c5720353d4

    • Replies: @Herald
  153. getaclue says:
    @Priss Factor

    Your statements are such utter garbage: “Chinese term for people with bad social credit is mild compared with….” — such utter bs–in China you can’t get on an airplane or public transport with a bad credit score, you are made a non-person literally, the name calling in the USA is putrid but not in that ballpark now (not that the Leftists/Communists/Googlers don’t want that system here, they clearly do…), don’t be an apologist for Communism–no system has murdered more innocent people (going on 200,000,000 last century) nor will do so if given the chance again wherever whenever….

  154. @Ron Unz

    Ron:

    I have no idea how many died in China on that day but whatever happened you can be sure it was retold to suit the narrative of the American Intelligence agencies. If the American Main Stream Media were not incompetent and dishonest then you wouldn’t have to waste your money and resources to put up great site like this so there could be an honest discussion of world events!

  155. DB Cooper says:
    @Yee

    “Actually, the pro-China people in HongKong is the older generation, the young generation is anti-China. The riot is the result of current indoctrinate of media and education institutes, not of past grieve.”

    I personally know many anti-PRC people in Hong Kong who are the older generation (above 80s), for the reasons I stated. I also know at least one who participated in some of the protests. She is 82 years old.

  156. Alden says:
    @TT

    Why was America responsible for feeding China?

  157. DB Cooper says:
    @Yee

    “Actually, the pro-China people in HongKong is the older generation, the young generation is anti-China. The riot is the result of current indoctrinate of media and education institutes, not of past grieve.”

    What you want to say is the pro-PRC people in Hong Kong is the older generation. That is absolute not true. I personally know many nationalistic anti-PRC people in Hong Kong who are of the older generation (above 80s), for the reasons I stated. That they are anti-PRC is precisely because they are pro China. They hate the PRC with a vengence for all the reason I stated before. I also know at least one who participated in some of the protests. She is 82 years old. And she usually get some of her friends to join her in those protests.

    That these protests is a young generation phenomen is probably a myth. Older people of course won’t participate in those violent clashes because of age issue and probably won’t get in photos by the news reporters because showing old people walking in demonstration is not as sexy as showing a young guy throwing stones. But many do participate in the peaceful demonstrations.

    Like I said older generations in Hong Kong don’t really consider the polity in the mainland as legit because of the CCP’s anti-China radical past (like denoucing Confucius is just one example).

  158. @Priss Factor

    Excellent and balanced reply. Thanks for the post!

  159. @TKK

    I’m 99% sure this website isn’t blocked in the mainland. I remember reading a Karlin article on transhumanism here when I was on a train to Inner Mongolia.

    When was the last time you’ve been to China, if at all?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Republic
  160. 走狗 says:

    How daring you of you to critique the regular people of HK who want democracy as being running dogs while you align yourself with the world’s third great super power.

  161. I don’t believe in any popular protests that don’t demand semi-direct democracy any more. Representative has been shown to be a circus for the elites, and here HK is just another pawn in the system.

    I say let China grant a referendum on independence, then once they are free, explain that it, having been complicit in the crimes of Empire, will not have access to the Chinese market, at all. Shut the border, let them fend for themselves. The Empire has no need for a door into China when the door is firmly closed. After 50-100 years, the crime element would have left for better pastures, and the people would beg to reunite on ‘one country, one system’ terms.

  162. @Aspnaz

    The “protesters are protesting their loss of something” alright: their (perceived) privilege, standard of living, and god-given right to FB. All points Shamir makes. He also explains why comparisons to the Yellow Vests are faulty – compare MSM treatment.

  163. @Aspnaz

    Idiotic reductio ad absurdum – author said nothing like that. Not surprised at who’s agreeing.

  164. @Jake

    “we all can delight in speaking English, the language of international Jewry since WW2.”

    Nice.

  165. @TKK

    If you hate this site’s “anti-Western propaganda” so much, you know where you can go.

    • LOL: TKK
  166. @Anonymous

    Pol Pot actually killed less people than the Americans did in Vietnam and since. It just depends whether you consider it worse , more immoral, and more reprehensible to kill your own people or some foreigners half way around the world. Hmm … Both seem bad to me … but still … The Khmer Rouge pale as war criminals compared to the Yankees, that’s for sure, and inflicted far less damage and sorrow on the world than Uncle Sam.

    I love it when self-righteous westerners pontificate on some mass murderer out in the jungles somewhere. Is Aung San Kyi, Sister No. 1 now a new milder version of Pol Pot for you moralist propagandists?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  167. @anonymous_from_SEA

    It would make sense that Unz Review was not blocked. After all it would have almost no influence in China but could serve to allow the Chinese government to learn something about its citizens who read aeticles or made comments.

    • Replies: @Republic
  168. Parfois1 says:
    @nsa

    Another good laugh from your “translation”.

    Still, I’m surprised at the Chinese government’s tolerance and patience by sticking to the transition agreement. Any other country would simply cease the charade and resume complete sovereignty. At the end of a lease, the lessee (owner) occupies the leased premisses. Reminds me of Gibraltar…

  169. annamaria says:
    @peterAUS

    “Still, the question remains: why use live ammo in the “shoot to kill” policy?” There wasn’t really need for self-defense either. … Hard to imagine protesters posing any real threat to them.”

    — On this forum, you are known as a staunch defender of Israel. How come that you never noticed that Israelis has been practicing the “shoot to kill” policy on the Israel-occupied territories, up to date?
    The Palestinians, particularly Palestinian children, do not pose “any real threat” to Israelis, and yet the supremacist chosen cannot deprive themselves of pleasure of murdering and maiming the “others” with impunity. Up to date.

    Usual selectivity of moral outrage, peterAUS ?

  170. Republic says:
    @anonymous_from_SEA

    Unz is not blocked inside China. Just ran test on Websitepulse.,ok at 8/27/19 1210 gmt

    OK in both Beijing, Shanghai,and Inner Mongolia

  171. Republic says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    but could serve to allow the Chinese government to learn something about its citizens who read aeticles or made comments.

    Is that technically possible? re: comments?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  172. Parfois1 says:
    @TKK

    The working class- e.g. the miners in Kentucky holding the coal ransom for their paychecks.

    You, working class? But how can that be? You consistently comment as a capitalist stooge. A working class person, by definition, has the elements of class consciousness by virtue of his dependence on selling his labour for survival. This relation of dependence is the denial of his autonomy (personal freedom) – he is shackled. And he is robbed by his employer who appropriates for himself the profit derived from the unequal contract between the employer and worker.

    It so happens that many wage slaves have been taught to accept their lot on the bottom of the social order and internalise it. The same fate fell on the housenegroes – they lost their identity and assumed the values of the master. Traitors to their kin.

  173. Yee says:

    DB Cooper,

    Oh, wake up… These people are waving US and UK flags, not KMT flags. KMT has long ceased to matter in anything anymore. Just give them up, please.

    UK/US are experts at getting a people to fight among themselves. Anyone who thinks house niggers or field niggers, KMT or CPC, Taiwanese/HKer or mainlanders makes any difference to UK/US, is just delusional. I’m not sure even their own White people matters, let alone different region of Chinese. Same for Arabs, Slavs, Africans, etc.

    HongKong was set to be used against the mainland by the West since the talk of handover. Riots were expected. Deng Xiaoping said this frankly when he explained why PLA troops must station in HongKong. And troops have been stationed in HK for 22 years.

    http://xj.cnr.cn/2014xjfw/2014xjfwws/20160119/t20160119_521167417.shtml
    1986年4月24日,邓小平会见香港著名人士安子介、查济民时说:“驻军是体现国家主权,是个安定因素。不要以为香港不会发生动乱。等到发生了动乱再派军队,问题就严重了。

    It’s sad HongKongers can’t escape the malicious plan set by their former colonial master.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  174. YEE

    America never had anything to do with Hong Kong. It was a British colony. Britain is now an island off France beset by immigration and street knife attacks with little relationship to Hong Kong.

    • Replies: @d dan
  175. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous

    “Anonymous[387],” are you a voice of the righteous ADL?

  176. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Parfois1

    Parfois1 says: “….he is shackled. And he is robbed by his employer who appropriates for himself the profit derived from the unequal contract between the employer and worker.”

    There it is…….. full-on, 100%, commie/marxist idiot propaganda, posted by yet another “pie -in-the-sky” drooling idiot who more than likely has never even tried to start/run their own private business.

    This disgusting ideology is [hopefully] exactly the sort of commie crapaganda that the people of Hong Kong are ultimately fighting against.

    At least, most of the older folks, I would hope.

    Many of those older folks already know full well the horrors of what awaits them and the younger generation when/if Hong Kong is fully assimilated by the commie/Borg empire; they had all previously escaped those horrors while they still could, to places like Hong Kong and Taiwan, because they already knew, via direct experience on the mainland back then, exactly what would happen to them if they had stayed any longer when Mao seized power 70 odd years ago.

    At that time, when compared to mainland China under Mao, Hong Kong and Taiwan were seen as places of relative freedom.

    No doubt that once in Hong Kong, the horrors stories of the mainland commie takeover under Mao as experienced by those once young, now older Hong Kong residents have been passed on to younger generations for the last 70 years. So hopefully, at least some of the younger Hong Kong residents also understand the horror that awaits them when re-absorbed by the murderous, full on totalitarian commie state .

    The saddest part about all this is that many of the protesters seem to genuinely believe that the US is a place of freedom, where we still have free speech rights, the right to keep and bear arms [ and I’m not just talking about guns here], or any of the other rights listed in the first 10 amendments of the US constitution.

    Sadly, the US is itself not far behind China, it went commie a long time ago [which is exactly why the US is itself slowly going “down the tubes” right now].

    God, how I hate all commies everywhere.

    And so it goes……

    No regards,, onebornfree

    • Replies: @redmudhooch
    , @Parfois1
  177. Yee says:

    Jeff Stryker,

    “America never had anything to do with Hong Kong. It was a British colony. ”

    I thought Britain and America were loyal allies who can count on one another?

    Really, CIA don’t even hide its role in this HK riot thing. You can’t be this dumb…

  178. @Parfois1

    I thought TKK wrote many times that he is a lawyer. If that involves work, I guess it depends how you define work. I think he’s just expressing solidarity. I think he does sometime express sympathy for his clients who are victims of the system.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  179. d dan says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    “America never had anything to do with Hong Kong. ”

    Only people who decides to live totally in western media’s echo chamber will claim this.

  180. denk says:
    @getaclue

    kid,

    How old are you , still wet bet your ears perhaps ?

    GUardian [sic], Forbes [sic], tribunal [sic]
    , ‘independent Canuck HR reseachers [OMFG] accuse China of blah blah blah….

    We dont’ve to debunk anything sonny,

    YOu’r supposed to substantiate those accusations , moron,

    Where’s the evidence ?

  181. Chinaman says:

    What is inexplicable to me is the level of interest and attention that the western media and the crowd here have unduly given to the situation in Hong Kong.

    Honestly, the outcome of this either way is inconsequential to geopolitics and people in the west. How can this be more important than the mass shootings and gun control in the US or the humanitarian crisis in Palestine? Not even one person have died so far.

    It goes without saying Tiananmen 2 And the thought of human meat patty stamped by tanks have capture the imagination of the commenters here and I am sure, subconsciously, people just can’t wait for this spectacle. There is little more satisfying to white people than watching Chinese kill each other. i guess we all agree that it is definitely more visceral and visually captivating than simply dropping a nuclear bomb on China.

    Such is the perverse nature of Americans, brought up on daily doses of violence and destruction every day. People need their fix.

    The communist understand this and why they will deny this pleasure to white people. There will not be tanks and no intervention. The popular opinion will change and these rioters will lose support in which case the HK government can take more decisive action. people will regain their sanity after someone realise the government is serious.

    America will continue their agitation and to fan the flames but HK is not some shithole like Syria orUkraine. i believe that if Hong Kong burns, America will burn with us.

    • Replies: @Frankie P
  182. Chinaman says:
    @Yee

    Yes but the CIA can’t brainwash a generation of people covertly. The house nigger must have some legitimate grievances.

    The CCP really need to work on their PR but the HKer dislike for the mainlanders, the “ 支那人”, runs a bit deeper than the house nigger syndrome.

    My parter is a mainlander and there is always a lot of cultural clash between us. Over the years, she start to see things from my point of view and despise some aspect of the mainlander’s behaviors. Etiquette and trustworthiness amongst them, which the “civilised” mainlanders will agree need to be addressed.

    I been conned by mainlanders innumerable times in the past. Even then, I never thought myself better than them and I always maintain that I am Chinese. What I hate about them is what I hate about parts of myself.

    Anyway, these kids will realise that as they mature and that their actions had been worse than the 紅衛兵 during the cultural revolution. It is a process of discovering their true identity. They are actually fighting themselves, they are the 支那人.

  183. anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daemon

    A profound statement. There can be no greater evil in history than the whitmofers, the masters of Greed and Psychopathy… not even the godless chinks.

  184. anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ronnie

    I saw Bannon on TV recently around the time of the Tiananmen anniversary. He said that 75,000 people were killed in the Tiananmen incident.

    This is the kind of lowlife which the white supremacist scum depend on to re-establish their hegemony over others? They may succeed in this endeavour with primitive pagan savages like the hindutvars (Bannon loves them), but with others… Lol!

    What a pathetic lot.

  185. @Anonymous

    That the US and the West are often wrong does not make China right.

    Right, but we don’t live in a magical, idealistic fairy tale world, do we? Given how pathetically “Westerners” have capitulated to Jewish subversion, there’s clearly no hope for them. Those of us who wish to survive can only look for hope in the (much) lesser of evils. There’s no place left in this world for moral purity or idealism.

    If you actually think a world where the Chinese are the leading power would be worse than what the Jews have in store for the goyim, then you’re not very bright. Look at what they’ve already done to the world in the 100 years or so they’ve been in power.

    Are the Chinese the ones who promote low-IQ negroid worship and “diversity”? Are the Chinese the ones who promote homo-worship and celebration of every form of perversion and degeneracy imaginable? All you have to do is open your eyes and look at the world around you.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  186. Corvinus says:
    @Wally

    “HK was taken from China, China has the right to take it back.”

    In a brutal manner? Is not China acting like the Jews against the Palestinians? Do not the people of Hong Kong have the right to self-rule?

    “That agreement does not allow rioters to engage in destructive, disruptive, violent actions…”

    So says China. To those being oppressed, they are using whatever means required to be free.

    “HK is theirs, they are rightfully taking it back.”

    You do realize you are now carrying the water for the globalists, right?

    “That agreement mandates that the HK administration maintain order, which heretofore they have not.”

    Where exactly does that agreement stipulate it?

    • Replies: @denk
  187. Anounder says:
    @Slave Nation

    Hey Amerimutt/Lolbertarian/Woke Imperialist. How’s the gay marriage?

  188. Corvinus says:
    @Ghan-buri-Ghan

    “From the comments so far, I notice that the usual Zionist, pro-Jewish, pro-Israeli crew around here (PeterAUS, Corvinus, Bardon Kaldian, TKK) also all happen to be virulently anti-China.”

    Actually, I am not Zionist nor pro-Jewish nor pro-Israel. You really misread the tea leaves.

    Moreover, I am pro-freedom. The people of Hong Kong want to be free. If anything, you should be in favor of the people there who want to gain their independence, rather than be subjugated by a globalist.

    “Given how pathetically “Westerners” have capitulated to Jewish subversion, there’s clearly no hope for them.”

    You don’t speak for “Westerners” nor white people.

    “If you actually think a world where the Chinese are the leading power would be worse than what the Jews have in store for the goyim, then you’re not very bright.”

    You are merely speculating here. Moreover, it really is up for white people themselves to decide who is this “larger threat”. You are displacing your own fears onto others.

    “China stands as the lone hope against a hellscape of total Jewish world domination over a soulless sludge of black and brown slaves.”

    Putting your faith in a group that you have disdain for as this “lone hope” makes little, if any, sense. Praytell, are there Jews in your closet and under your bed?

    “Look at what they’ve already done to the world in the 100 years or so they’ve been in power.”

    Indeed, it was influenced by Marx, a Jew, to establish a communist regime, and brutalized those who dared to cross them. You do realize the irony and hypocrisy here, right?

  189. Skeptikal says:
    @Priss Factor

    “French imperialism(that wasn’t so bad).”

    Aaargh. French imperialism in Indochina was a catastrophe.
    Have you ever heard of the French Foreign Legion?
    Read about what they did in Indochina. The beautiful culture (and landscape) that they drenched in blood.
    Then travel from Indochina to North Africa. Absolutely awful.
    I do think that French imperialism was probably “worse” than British. The French imperilists might have done a little bit of good in Syria with the introduction of the French educational system. But basically, European colonialism cannot be justified.

  190. Skeptikal says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Thanks for this video!
    I wish it were longer.
    The term “gunboat diplomacy” originated in China.
    The Chinese had every reason to detest the Americans.
    And the British, of course.
    A note on the opium trade.
    I have read (maybe in one of William Dalrymple’s books—not sure) that the opium traded by the Brits was grown in India. Also, that the major merchants of the dope in India were Jewish. For example, the Sassoon family:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sassoon

    There were others.
    See “The rise of colonial Calcutta saw the rise of opium trade with China. British rule turned opium into a global commodity, establishing a monopoly over the sale of Indian opium in 1773, actively promoting its export, defying Chinese drug laws and fighting two wars to open the Chinese market.[31] Baghdadi Jewish merchants dominated the opium trade with a majority of opium chests auctioned from British authorities being exported to China by Baghdadi Jewish merchants, who competed with Marwari and Parsee merchants for the trade.[31] The Sassoon family eventually controlled 70 percent of the opium trade from India.[2
    from:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdadi_Jews

    Very interesting entry.

  191. @Republic

    Yes, it would be interesting to know how they might go about snooping, especially on Commenters living outside China.

  192. I really wish that unz.com wouldn’t use the N-word in the title of an article. This is inflammatory to some people and will add further reason for the Powers That Be to close down this excellent web site for “hate speech”. Just stop it.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  193. @Rurik

    Too true, all too true.

    I was a science geek in high school and beginning years of college. Then while driving in a rainstorm I got involved in a near fatal automobile accident. In a flash I realized that I hadn’t lived, that in some sense my life was a waste because I hadn’t had time to learn about our great cultural heritage. I changed instantly. Returned to college and studied our great European Intellectual History, our matchless cultural accomplishments and heritage in Philosophy, the Arts, Social Sciences, Myth and Religion. Finally, coming full circle, I returned to science and math, but now I was informed, literally, in-formed or inwardly formed.

    I like Counter Currents for just the reasons your comment points out. In a sense we Americans have been orphaned, cut off and deprived, which the articles there try to rectify. A salvage operation, or rear-guard action.

    “Kim Kardashian’s ass”–LOL, but it’s actually a tragedy, as you well know.

    Burning of the Library of Alexandria–the greatest tragedy to befall Western Civilization. To think that what we have of the Greeks is just the tip of the iceberg is enough to make one weep.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  194. Chinaman says:
    @Corvinus

    You don’t speak for “Westerners” nor white people.

    Moreover, I am pro-freedom. The people of Hong Kong want to be free.

    Just as a few goyims and Trump don’t speak for all white people, the house niggers protestors don’t speak for me and the majority of HKer. Thank you, the people of HK don’t need to be freed since we were never enslaved to start off with. I don’t need some white dude who probably can’t find HK on the map to unleash my chain and to set me free. I am FREE. Do not assign intention to people you don’t even know .

    None of you here have suffered the CCP and have right to even comment on the Chinese government. I will give you an example who does.

    My mother is in her 70s and was in a Chinese “re-education” camp during her youth and suffered through the cultural revolution. She never got a chance to go to school. We were wealthy landowners and my family was stripped of the our property and land in China. My grandfather was publicly humiliated and beaten by the red guards. She escaped to Hong Kong in the 1960s by swimming across the Shenzhen and Hong Kong channel. She almost drowned. WTF do you White people know about the CCP beside your own imagination ???

    She have almost every reason to hate the CCP but she have seen how the government learned from their mistake and how it lifted 800 million people out of poverty in 40 years, she was amazed at how the hometown she left in her youth have developed and the quality of life improved. (What have your government done during that period beside killing a lot of innocent Muslims. )

    She supports the CCP wholeheartedly now and resolutely oppose these protests. She thinks America’s are hypocrites and trying to stop China’s rise . Even a old lady understand what is going om.

    Beside what you see on MSM, have you actually spoken to the people? From a cohort of hundreds of people I have spoken to across socioeconomic strata, 80% of the people do NOT support the protests. 90% just want to get on with their lives. We are a practical people, not ideologues. these protest are hurting our livelihood and our reputation as a city. Whatever you might think, Public opinion have turned a long time a ago.

    Individual liberty and the protection of personal property are enshrined in the constitution of Western democracies but I find it hard to reconcile all these talk with being involuntarily deprived of more than 50% of the fruits of my labor through personal tax. Tax is SLAVERY, period. HK have a flat tax rate of 15% and no global tax. That is why are a 100,000 tax evading Americans in HK functioning as a fifth column and fermenting unrest.

    It is ironic those who are in chains tells those who are free to “rise up against my masters”. I don’t have one. Compared to the socialist nanny\police\ surveillance state in the West, HK is already one of the freest place in the world ( look at the ranking.) and CCP interference is minimal and NECESSARY in most case.

    The last thing any Chinese needs is more ideology or some amorphous conception of “freedom” invented by some white dude. It have done enough damage. Democracy and communism is born of the same sin- the sin of envy- and white people should stop envying the progress made by the Chinese. Go mind your own fucking business, do something about the guns and the mass shootings first.

    Whatever some white dude thump his fist on the table and demand freedom and democracy, I know some a lot of non-white is going to die for nothing. We don’t need any more of that. Thank you very much.

  195. Thumbs up

    Still waiting on your Red Zog part 2 Mr. Shamir….

  196. @onebornfree

    Everything I hate about capitalism is communism!

  197. “the house n . . . ”

    Good grief,

    another person who has no idea that the comparison is drastically false by the use of the derrogatory term —–

    “We don’t need any more of that. ”

    Then you seem blissful ignorant of what is happening in your culture. It was but a few years ago the chinses were advertising laundry soap juxtaposed against the suggestion that a chinese girl’s boyfriend could use a dose to make him whiter.

    It looks to me like the Chinese can’t get enough of that . . .

    • Replies: @Ber
  198. Parfois1 says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Thank you. TKK stated to be on the side of the Kentucky miners. Given the context, I assumed that he was passing off as one, hence my doubts.

    One of the new trendy fads is to assert the end of social classes (similar to “the end of history”) to promote the tabula rasa doctrine that we reached a new beginning by starting off in a state of equality, curiously at a time when common man is more dispossessed than ever. In the not distant past he could, ultimately, fight for his rights, even against a major corporation or the state, by collective action. But, by denying him the solidarity and loyalty of his kin or class, he is alone and powerless.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  199. Parfois1 says:
    @onebornfree

    Sadly, the US is itself not far behind China, it went commie a long time ago [which is exactly why the US is itself slowly going “down the tubes” right now].

    Dear me! I did not notice the US Bolshevik revolution. I’ve heard Putin did something, like putting a Trumpuppet in the White House, but he is a reborn capitalist.

    The last I have heard (from Chomsky himself, certainly more reliable than you about politics) is that the US is a Fascist state (a state ruled by corporate power), the enemy of Communism (read Mein Kampf). So, it seems you got your definitions back to front – perhaps there is a commie in you after all comrade.

  200. Half-Jap says:
    @Rurik

    A black friend of mine once explained to me that there are black folks, and niggers. Seems it’s not just the skin color, but about how one behaves that makes one a nigger. Was intriguing.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Rurik
  201. Frankie P says:
    @Chinaman

    Easy. Keep them focused on the gentle police in Hong Kong so they don’t notice the French police, who have killed 12 and injured 2,500 yellow vest protesters, regularly shooting out eyes with rubber bullets.

  202. @Parfois1

    Parfois1

    One of the new trendy fads is to assert the end of social classes (similar to “the end of history”)

    Interesting comment and something deserving more debate. Definitely changing. With the deindustrialisation of the West, the classical working class is disappearing and the middle class also losing ground. It would seem the lumpenproletariat is growing, and there are countless temps, part-timers, transients, etc. among the formally employed that a class quite don’t make. I’d say now most of world’s working class is in PR China but to what extent they’re conscious of their status even though the’re well exposed to classical Marxism in that formally communist country, and what implications that has, is questionable. I don’t know if classical Marxist analysis is even applicable to the current global situation. Something that needs looking into, and perhaps new revolutionary ideologies and strategies developed instead of promoting the same old dogma. Those who still claim to be Marxists, like media darling Slavoj Zizek, aren’t offering anything innovative, relevant, sensible or concrete. Or RU’s own Andre Vitchek. Just like the leading lights of the alt-right, they’ve found a way of making a living catering to a particular tiny segment of society that is actually aspiring for change. There’s more to it too … as they’re militarising their followers against each other on the streets and not tackling those who run things, despite their rhetoric … and in whose interest is that? I am not an intellectual heavyweight to come up with such, but necessary, profound ideas myself but I can tell when I’m being bullshitted against my own and the people’s interest. Then there’s the NazBols trying to bridge this gap but how many can they recruit and influence?
    Postmodernism, uh? What comes after that phase?

  203. Ber says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The actual advertisement was to get one’s washings really clean. So a black man was put into their brand of washing machine/soap and he came out whiter – meaning cleaner.

  204. annamaria says:
    @Chinaman

    That was a well-deserved dressing for the righteous Corvinus.

  205. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Chinaman

    If you and your mother now believe that what your mother went through under Mao [or worse] will not happen again when Hong Kong is either invaded, or just slowly re-absorbed by the mainland Chinese communist state then:

    1] your mother is now a completely brainwashed fool, and…

    2].. you appear have followed in her brainwashed footsteps 🙂

    The Chinese government officially admitted to killing 100 million of its own citizens in Mao’s “glorious” revolution, fer chrissakes.

    I suggest you both read a genuine, authorized [there are a lot of fake versions these days] copy of Orwells “1984” to get a handle on whats now in store for Hong Kong. It’s a “how to” guide for all totalitarians:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

    The best thing you can both do now is to get the fuck out of Hong Kong before the shit really hits the fan.

    But as brainwashed fools who think that somehow “it’ll be different this time”, you probably won’t. So you both will fully deserve your fates, as far as I can see, because:

    “Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it”

    onebornfree

    • Disagree: d dan
  206. onebornfree says: • Website

    “China’s Mass Internment of Uighurs Is a ‘Modern Cultural Genocide”:

    [MORE]

    “In western China, there’s a growing network of what journalists, former inmates, and the U.S. government are calling “concentration camps”—or what the Chinese government refers to as “vocational training centers.” They’re believed to hold between 1 and 3 million people, and perhaps as much as one-quarter of the Muslim population of Xinjiang province.

    Outside the camps, Xinjiang is described by its Uighur residents as a police state, in which the Chinese government subjects the population to round-the-clock surveillance. Expressions of traditional culture have been criminalized, with the intention of imposing Chinese cultural unity on a multicultural region.

    Xinjiang, a region the size of Alaska, is home to 23 million people, 45 percent of whom are Uighurs, a people who identify closely with the culture of central Asia. The remainder are mostly Han Chinese, the majority ethnic group of mainland China.

    Government officials initially denied the existence of the camps. Confronted with overwhelming evidence from satellite photography, witness testimonies, and internal communist party documents, Beijing was finally forced to acknowledge their existence.

    Officials now say that the camps are necessary to counter Islamic terrorism and quell a violent separatist movement—such as the Uighur riots in 2009 that left 200 mostly Han Chinese dead, and a terror attack by the East Turkistan Islamic Movement in the heart of Tiananmen Square, which killed five people. Party officials describe the training centers as paths out of poverty, designed to teach basic skills like sewing and reading……..”:

    See: China’s Mass Internment of Uighurs Is a ‘Modern Cultural Genocide:
    https://reason.com/video/uighurs-china/

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
  207. @Corvinus

    I want to be free too, can I have my own kingdom now?

    Jeez, people are absolutely ridiculous sometimes.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  208. @Half-Jap

    I personally use the knee high pants and knee long t shirts to tell niggers from actual black folks. It works pretty well.

  209. @TKK

    Not trying to excuse the Chinese govt, but you know China n NK have a blood alliance right? Why are you so surprised by China returning those that are caught?

  210. Rurik says:
    @Half-Jap

    A black friend of mine once explained to me that there are black folks, and niggers. Seems it’s not just the skin color, but about how one behaves that makes one a nigger. Was intriguing.

    of course, just as there are white folks and wiggers

    But no one loses their bladder when someone says ‘wigger’.

    Or hillbilly toothless redneck loser. Because those things are all politically correct.

    But say ‘nigger’

    (and believe me, those charming mugs are indeed and in fact niggers.)

    And right on cue, some Starbucks crybaby, snowflake, SJW will screech bloody murder at you for using that descriptive word, (all while very carefully hushing up why those niggers should be called niggers).

  211. onebornfree says: • Website
    @onebornfree

    onebornfree says: “The best thing you can both do now is to get the fuck out of Hong Kong before the shit really hits the fan.But as brainwashed fools who think that somehow “it’ll be different this time”, you probably won’t. So you both will fully deserve your fates, as far as I can see”

    And you especially deserve your fates if you are both naive and brainwashed enough to think that because you support the CCP, that somehow you will be spared the fate that awaits the equally naive young protesters; whom I would also strongly encourage to: “get the fuck out ” of Hong Kong “before the shit really hits the fan”, right now, in fact, and “by any means necessary” [ie either “legal” or “illegal”, eg. bribery, forged docs etc], before its too late rather than stay and fight for “freedom”, or “democracy”, or whatever else it is they all fantasize about.

    There will be no mercy. “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.” George Orwell “1984” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984

    “Regards”, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  212. annamaria says:
    @onebornfree

    Sounds like a CIA-approved runt. Have you experiences righteous joy re Nuland’s exploits in Ukraine? How about “humanitarian interventions” in Serbia, Libya, and Syria?
    According to “onebornfree” (?) the NED and other “fighters for democracy” can do no wrong.

  213. Rurik says:
    @ThreeCranes

    our great European Intellectual History, our matchless cultural accomplishments and heritage in Philosophy, the Arts, Social Sciences, Myth and Religion.

    Well, I suppose those in the far East, and even in the Middle East, also rival the West’s accomplishments, but being a Western man, I confess to a certain chauvinism when it comes to the West. And certainly, the West’s recent technological marvels are unmatched. But, a certain (understandable, I think) chauvinism aside, I do honor the greatness of non-Western civilizations and people as well. The Japanese and the Chinese and other East Asians, the Persians and Babylonians, and many, many others…

    In a sense we Americans have been orphaned, cut off and deprived

    And deliberately so.

    I think more young Brits know who MLK or Nelson Mandela are than know of Richard the Lion Heart, or Rudyard Kipling.

    I’ve had interesting discussions even here on Unz, about the deliberate destruction of our heritage, when ever artifacts or knowledge flies in the face of our current regime’s narrative.

    It’s happening even today, in places like Sweden,

    Burning of the Library of Alexandria–the greatest tragedy to befall Western Civilization. To think that what we have of the Greeks is just the tip of the iceberg is enough to make one weep.

    Too true, ThreeCranes. All too true.

  214. @onebornfree

    At least we’ll find out soon enough if your predictions are correct. Or maybe not. If, after whatever happens, one lot says nothing major happened, or perhaps some necessary re-education, while the other lot claim that x – xx,xxxs were killed, imprisoned, tortured, sent to concentration caps. I don’t really care as whoever wins in any dispute there will be Chinese, and however many disappear … well there will be more than enough of them left over. But I don’t want more of their exiles, refugees, immigrants elsewhere. And we should worry more about the boot stomping on our heads, and it will be from the same source prodding those Hong Kong kids to do the impossible, bring down PR China.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  215. Chinaman says:
    @onebornfree

    I was 10 when Tiananmen happened, I remember watching the tanks on TV.

    It will be unfathomable to a keyboard warrior like you but almost everyone in HK has lost somebody under the CCP, either during the cultural revolution or the great leap forward in the 60s. I grew up hating the CCP and thinking they are the root of all evil.

    As a Chinese, I KNOW THE CCP and their crimes better than you.

    In fact, the protestors and their antics, like desecrating their opponents family grave, blocking up roads and harassing people on the street who dare to question their beliefs are exactly from the CCP playbook. we called them the Yellow Guards. There are probably a genetic disposition in these kinds of act.

    Reading your naive post, I am thinking I must be old enough to be your dad. I wrote the below in a long letter to my young children (below 10) since I was really sick last year and needed getting my affairs in order. You get to read it first.

    “At any point in time and history, across every country and culture, anywhere between 20-49% of the people are unhappy with their government and want regime change. The other 51% is also unhappy, but they will instinctively throw their support to the existing regime out of spite for their ideological opponents- along racial, religious, socioeconomic line- even if they do not understand what the argument or fuss is about. 95-99% of human beings who have ever walked this planet died unhappy with the way they were governed unless they are the ones imposing their will on others or they are in the top 5% of the income distribution.

    Society will always oscillate between the two political extremes of Democracy and dictatorship. One gives rise to another. When people get fed up with Democracy because it doesn’t solve any real world problems, people will ask for a “strong leader”. When the dictators starts trampling on their rights or takes the country on a dangerous path, the people will rise up and cry out for Democracy. CCP, Left, right, libertarians, democrats, dictatorship, bourgeois, fascist, nationalist are all meaningless labels that reflect our heuristic biases and the human tendency to see the world in black and white, right and wrong, us and them. I have long seen through the futility of politics and the farce it is. Open your eyes and look at all the democracies in the world- Do they look like paradise and utopias to you or do they look more like regimes that is in internecine strife and slowing rotting at its core?

    Someone once quips that “In democratic America, the political parties change but the policies don’t change whereas in communist China, the party don’t change but the policies do. What matters to China is REAL progress, getting to the moon and GDP growth. There are no perfect political system Pragmatism and the lesser evil is what we need to contend with. ”

    By the way, I have 1984 on my kindle and when I hear Pentagon talk about “Peace through Strength”, it reminds me of “War is peace”. When I hear ” American Democracy”, it reminds me of “freedom is slavery”…

    When I read your post…it reminds is me of “Ignorance is Strength”.

    I don’t know who is brainwashed here.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  216. Corvinus says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    “I want to be free too, can I have my own kingdom now?”

    It’s not about you, it’s about a group of people who are being subjugated. They merely want self-rule. Why are you opposed to liberty?

    “Jeez, people are absolutely ridiculous sometimes.”

    Look in the mirror, son.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  217. “The actual advertisement was to get one’s washings really clean. So a black man was put into their brand of washing machine/soap and he came out whiter – meaning cleaner.”

    Laughing.

    Your comment speaks for itself. And unfortunately, I don’t think you get what it says about you.

    Even the Chinese got the implications —

  218. denk says:
    @Corvinus

    ‘brutal manner’

    Why dont you try those stunts in Washington DC, …..
    molotov cocktails, bricks, fire, assaulting police, ransacking court house and police stations…if you’ve the cojones !

    ”Moreover, I am pro-freedom’

    and Im jesus christ !

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  219. onebornfree says: • Website

    Chinaman says: “… In democratic America, the political parties change but the policies don’t change whereas in communist China, the party don’t change but the policies do.”

    You are delusional. To be blunt- just another “useful idiot”.

    China is no different from the US these days. As in the US [sadly], the real, underlying policies in China [ie total control over the population] don’t change. To the degree that they appear to do so in China, it’s a manufactured illusion , a deliberate fabrication, a massive lie, a necessary superficiality, no more.

    Chinaman says: “What matters to China is REAL progress, getting to the moon and GDP growth. ”

    You don’t have real progress in China, its an illusion [as in the US these days]. China ain’t “getting to the moon” no more than the US already did [it was all faked]. As for China’s GDP, anyone who actually delves into the figures to any degree is already fully aware that just as with the US, those figures are all totally faked/manipulated for political gain.

    This just in: fake money creation via central banks [either in the US or China [or elsewhere], and its subsequent spending by governments cannot create real wealth, only the superficial , temporary illusion of real wealth.

    Chinaman says: “By the way, I have 1984 on my kindle and when I hear Pentagon talk about “Peace through Strength”, it reminds me of “War is peace”. When I hear ” American Democracy”, it reminds me of “freedom is slavery”…

    What are you trying to insinuate here? That I support the policies of the US government, the Pentagon et al? Or that I’m CIA, as some other twerp here, like a trained seal, reflexively assumes?

    Chinaman says: “When I read your post…it reminds is me of “Ignorance is Strength”. I don’t know who is brainwashed here.”

    Well if you have 1984 on your Kindle I suggest you either actually read it [ if you haven’t], or very closely re-read it [if you have already “read” it], because obviously , if you did in fact read it, it did not make much of an impression.

    But then again, what would I expect from [yet another] brainwashed, communist fantasist and apologist.

    I guess you could blame your mother for that, if you felt in need of a “good” excuse.

    And so it goes……………..

    No regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @denk
  220. denk says:
    @Ronnie

    Trump, Pompeo, Bolton, Mccain, Rubio, Pelosi,
    Pence, Bannon…..what a rogue gallery !

    They might as well put it in the job requirement…
    Only psychopaths need apply !

  221. denk says:

    The trouble with HK,,,,….in three letter word…
    its the Wogs !

    ‘There is now abundant evidence that the UK and US are the black hand behind the events in Hong Kong. When the Hong Kong Bar association joined in the protests the west claimed that even the lawyers were supporting the protests in an attempt to bring justice to the people. But the leaders of that association are all either UK lawyers or members of law firms based in London, such as Jimmy Chan, head of the so-called Human Civil Rights Front, formed in 2002 with the objective of breaking Honk Kong away from China, such as Kevin Lam, a partner in another London based law firm, and Steve Kwok and Alvin Yeung, members of the anti-China Civic Party who are going to meet with US officials next week. Kwok has called for the independence of Hong Kong in other visits, some sponsored by the US National Security Council and has called for the US to invoke its Hong Kong Policy Act, which, among other things mandates the US president to issue an order suspending its treatment of Hong Kong as a separate territory in trade matters. The effect of this would be to damage China’s overall trade since a lot of its revenue comes through Hong Kong. The president can invoke the Act if it decides that Hong Kong “is not sufficiently autonomous to justify it being treated separately from China.”

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/08/no_author/china-and-the-zombies-of-the-past/

  222. Corvinus says:
    @Chinaman

    “the house niggers protestors don’t speak for me and the majority of HKer.”

    

The protesters speak for a large group of people who are persecuted.

    “Thank you, the people of HK don’t need to be freed since we were never enslaved to start off with”

    Actually, Hong Kong was “enslaved” as the English controlled that area for natural resources. Those natives who sought to remove themselves from British Empire rule were summarily crushed.

    “WTF do you White people know about the CCP beside your own imagination ???”

    Not imagination. Books, magazines, and scholarly articles educate the masses about the pros and cons of Chinese communism.

    “She have almost every reason to hate the CCP but she have seen how the government learned from their mistake and how it lifted 800 million people out of poverty in 40 years, she was amazed at how the hometown she left in her youth have developed and the quality of life improved.”

    Right. After having her family wealth that was earned seized by force and having her own husband brutalized, she would come to realize that Chinese Communism was a boon, not a bane. It’s quite possible, but unlikely, given the government control of the economy as well as the limited freedoms.

    “From a cohort of hundreds of people I have spoken to across socioeconomic strata, 80% of the people do NOT support the protests. 90% just want to get on with their lives.”

    Well, my two buddies from Hong Kong have personally talked to thousands of people who run the gamut politically, economically, and socially, and they are of the mindset that they would like to remove themselves from the shackles of Chinese globalism.

    “Tax is SLAVERY, period”.

    Actually, it is a necessarily evil to ensure the financial success and internal stability of a nation. It enables the building of infrastructure and the providing of services.

    “The last thing any Chinese needs is more ideology or some amorphous conception of “freedom” invented by some white dude.”

    Maybe. Then again, perhaps not.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Malla
  223. Chinaman says:
    @onebornfree

    May be your preoccupation with various conspiracy theories and literature have short circuit your head which is why you don’t seem to get my drift. I will try to spell it out for you here.

    Everywhere across all nations, people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their own problems like to blame the government for everything wrong in the world. The truth is most of the social and economic problems you believe there are in China has little to do with the Chinese government. The totalitarian CCP you professed to hate, which has never done any wrong to you, is but a reflection of 2000 years of Chinese culture.

    It has always been like that…the people deserve their government.

    Pulling down the CCP and changing the government to Liberal democracy will not solve any social problems. The corruption, the cruelty or even the censorship won’t go away. Instead of Mao, we might get a Hilter, or a demagogue like Trump who whips up the passion of the crowd for his own gain. You will end up with a democratic\fasict dictator within no time.

    If you haven’t noticed, no regime change have ever brought about any improvement in people’s life. Get your head out of the books and observe,Is Iraq or Ukraine any better after its liberation? it just reverts to its natural state after awhile.

    There are many reasons why things are the way you find them. The world is a complex place where you can’t naively attribute cause and effect (as my mom believes the CCP lifted 800 million people out of poverty..which is not true) Mentally masturbating with 1984 is not going to help you understand the real world.

    The real world is never as black and white as you find it in fiction where you can identify the good and bad guys immediately. Grow up.

  224. Chinaman says:
    @Corvinus

    Right. After having her family wealth that was earned seized by force and having her own husband brutalized, she would come to realize that Chinese Communism was a boon, not a bane. It’s quite possible, but unlikely, given the government control of the economy as well as the limited freedoms.

    I will just respond to this point. The CCP is not the CCP under Mao and it is not even the CCP under Deng. that’s what my mother told me… Is the German Government now the same one as Nazi? You only read it from your books and magazine, my mother experienced it so I think I believe she can tell the difference.

    It still has the same name but it is definitely NOT commie. China has the most dynamic capitalist economy in the world and members of the communist party are the richest in China. I guess you can say it’s kind of nepotistic socialism. To

    My mother is humble practical lady with little formal education so we cannot compare her with a visionary and an enlightened freedom fighter like yourself who masturbates to the thought of liberating 1.4 billion Chinese with your keyboard.

    She supports the current government (whatever its name) because she have actually seen the improvement in people’s lives. You are the modern-day reincarnation of Gandi so you will not understand this- that most people prefer bread over freedom-

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @d dan
    , @onebornfree
    , @Corvinus
  225. d dan says:
    @Chinaman

    Eloquently put.

    But, but, but,…. those “smart” non-Chinese people like @Corvinus or @onebornfree, sitting faraway from China in front of a computer most likely made in China they hated, think that they know the evil of cultural revolution better than your mother does (because she experienced it, they didn’t), think that they know more about China than you (because you are a Chinese, they aren’t), think that they know what government China should have (because it is your government, not their), think that they are more motivated for the well being of Chinese people (because it affects you, not them). They even advise you what books to read and where should you live.

    And from their comments, they probably think that they are more enlightened and wiser than you too.

    • Agree: Chinaman
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  226. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Chinaman

    Chinaman says: “China has the most dynamic capitalist economy in the world and members of the communist party are the richest in China.”

    What you describe is communism, _not_ capitalism. Communism is a system designed to steal the wealth of the country and siphon it all off to the elite insiders- which is, coincidentally, exactly what you admit to be the case in China. 🙂 .

    Capitalism is the opposite. Under capitalism, the actual creators of the wealth get to keep it, it doesn’t get confiscated at the point of a gun by worthless parasites in governments, “for the [supposed] good of everyone”, [but in fact to enrich only themselves].

    To quote Gary Allen:

    “If one understands that Socialism is not a ‘share the wealth’ program but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super rich men promoting Socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism, or more accurately Socialism, is not a movement of the down-trodden masses but of the economic elite.” From: “None Dare Call It Conspiracy” -Gary Allen


    “When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”
    Frederic Bastiat

    Predictably, Mr Unz himself agrees with your “justified expropriation” blather as being somehow “capitalist”. And sadly, its not as if I didn’t see that coming, given the volume of pro communist, big government, “government to the rescue”, worthless diatribes he consistently publishes here .

    And so it goes… 🙁 .

    No regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Biff
  227. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    Actually, Hong Kong was “enslaved” as the English controlled that area for natural resources. Those natives who sought to remove themselves from British Empire rule were summarily crushed.

    Your same rubbish barking about colonialism never ends. If the HK under British rule wanted to escape vul Yt, they could just jump across the border to the Communist “Heaven” in PRC or even the Qing dynasty China before the PRC. But funny that most Chinese were running to Hongkong to live under evul YT from the ‘Communist paradise’ .

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  228. onebornfree says: • Website

    Inside Beijing’s Toolbox to Crush Hong Kong:

    “The Chinese Communist Party is betting it won’t have to send tanks to end the revolt. It’s got the cops, surveillance, and even a replacement “international city” in the works….”

    “…..The CCP knows it can’t win hearts and minds in the city, and tanks and troops would only exacerbate the ideological divide, so it is toying with the idea of removing Hong Kong’s status as a key financial conduit for China. Quietly, the State Council in Beijing published a paper in mid-August proposing that Shenzhen become an international city—and replace Hong Kong. The paper mentioned that Shenzhen will be the first city in China to have a “fair and just environment for democracy and rule of law,” suggesting that Shenzhen, not Hong Kong, will undergo political reform that is yet to be defined, but may include some sort of democratic component. Beijing’s gambit is to lure multinational corporations to shift their Asia-Pacific headquarters north of the border (though the worry is that any favorable conditions for corporations could evaporate as quickly as they emerged).

    With the Hong Kong Police Force and hired thugs as the CCP’s sluggers on the streets, squeezes on big businesses, and the occasional warning of economic collapse, Beijing surely believes it has the blackshirts of Hong Kong on a slow burn.

    Other measures are being used, too. Hong Kong’s current chief executive, Carrie Lam, gave a statement to the press on Tuesday suggesting that she could invoke a colonial-era law to give herself powers to authorize arrests, shut down telecommunications, censor media, seize property, and change or enact laws if the city falls into an emergency state. In other words, instead of facing the people of Hong Kong to weigh their demands, Lam is prepared to pare away many qualities that set Hong Kong apart from mainland China under CCP rule—a relatively free press, an uncensored internet, protections for personal property, and other rights…..”: Inside Beijing’s Toolbox to Crush Hong Kong:
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-beijings-toolbox-to-crush-hong-kong-3

    Also: “Mainland Chinese Sneak Into Hong Kong Protests — to Support Cause.”:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/mainland-chinese-sneak-into-hong-kongs-proteststo-support-the-cause-11566986403

    Regards, onebornfree

  229. Corvinus says:
    @Chinaman

    “China has the most dynamic capitalist economy in the world and members of the communist party are the richest in China. I guess you can say it’s kind of nepotistic socialism.”

    You are talking out of both ends of your mouth here. Which is it, a “dynamic capitalist economy” or “nepotistic socialism”? I was under the impression by the fine posters here that anything socialist is other than desirable for a civilization. The state (China) directs and guides all major aspects of the economy—including both the state and private sectors—while not collecting dividends from the ownership of its enterprises. Chinese state-owned enterprises and privately owned enterprises share several traits with respect to state subsidies, proximity to state power, and execution of government policy objectives. The emphasis, however, is government control rather than ownership of assets. To Americans and other private investors, the Chinese violate the norms of open competition and fairness.

    Regardless of the financial landscape in China, it has achieved prosperity and wealth by destroying the environment, stealing trade secrets, creating knockoffs, and treating its workers like a red headed step child pinata.

    ” You are the modern-day reincarnation of Gandi so you will not understand this- that most people prefer bread over freedom”

    You don’t get your bread without having that freedom. Try again.

    “She supports the current government (whatever its name) because she have actually seen the improvement in people’s lives.”

    At what cost overall to citizens?

    “an enlightened freedom fighter like yourself who masturbates to the thought of liberating 1.4 billion Chinese with your keyboard.”

    That would be a strawman on your part. I never directly or indirectly made that statement.

    I note it is ironic that some of the fine posters here who tout self determination and freedom of association for American whites against a globalist regime (the federal government) are supporting China, who engages in globalism, that is hell bent on subjugating a group of people who seek self-determination and freedom of association.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  230. Corvinus says:
    @Malla

    “Your same rubbish barking about colonialism never ends.”

    Not barking here, just offering insight and perspective. You should try it sometime.

    “But funny that most Chinese were running to Hongkong to live under evul YT from the ‘Communist paradise”

    What are you even talking about? Which Chinese? When? How many “ran there”? Provide the requisite context.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Malla
    , @annamaria
  231. Corvinus says:
    @d dan

    LOL. Chinaman is observably a shill. Don’t be taken in by the Jews of the East.

  232. Corvinus says:
    @denk

    “Why dont you try those stunts in Washington DC, …..molotov cocktails, bricks, fire, assaulting police, ransacking court house and police stations…if you’ve the cojones !”

    You mean relatively the same actions the colonists took against the British Empire? From the perspective of George III’s ministry, the American cause was an insurgency. Colonial vigilantes debased and defiled, humiliated and dehumanized, their Loyalist neighbors. Mobs demolished customs houses and attacked British officials.

    “Mass violence,” writes historian Arthur M. Schlesinger, “played a dominant role at every significant turning point of the events leading up to the War for Independence. Mobs terrified the stamp agents, obstructed the execution of the Townshend Revenue Act, and triggered the Boston Massacre”.

    Were you asleep during the unit on American Independence?

    • Replies: @denk
  233. annamaria says:
    @onebornfree

    “given the volume of pro communist, big government, “government to the rescue”, worthless diatribes he consistently publishes here.”

    — Hey, “one born unfree,” you have missed the main point of this article — the subjugation of US to Israel. If you are such a brave and intelligent fellow (or lady), why don’t you solve the local problem and liberate your country from the subjugation?

    You were explained, straightforwardly, that the “democracy on the march” and “humanitarian” interventions in Iraq, Ukraine, Libya and Syria have been a disaster for the local populations.

    One more time for you — your zionized masters have been promoting theft and death to improve their baseline. While promoting theft and death on a massive scale, your zionized masters never failed to proclaim their noble intentions in the name of “democracy and freedom and human rights.”

    As a result of the ZUSA-style “democracy on the march” in Iraq, Ukraine, Libya and Syria, millions died (including a horrific number of children), the infrastructure of the major cities and villages was destroyed, and the land was polluted (in some places with depleted uranium, which led to a sharp increase in birth defects and various cancers — see Falluja in Iraq).

    In Ukraine, the government was captured by Jewish cabal helped by the US State Dept and the local self-proclaimed neo-nazi (Banderites). Four million Ukrainians (10% of the population) have fled abroad from the US-installed regime.

    In the formerly prosperous Libya, the results of the joined efforts of the NATO and Israel were crowned with the slave market and with complete downing of the health system that used to be a glory of North Africa.

    In Syria, the Christian community was almost exterminated by the “freedom fighters” of ISIS that have been financed, armed, protected, and guided by the US/UK/Israel governments/security services.

    The wars have caused a flood of refugees to Europe.

    Either you come on this forum to spread hasbara or your ignorance is beyond belief.

    • Replies: @Malla
  234. My thoughts for a long time mirror the article. SO it is great to see someone else put them into words. Although my respect is worthless to others, it is a criteria in how I deal with other people. Many think money buys respect and to a great extend it does. Except to the few where respect is earned not bought.

  235. @Chinaman

    It was in 2000, when called on to make a speech in the US that I said “i thank God for America, saving the world from democracy”. I was, as an Australian, referring to the fact that a democracy like Australia’s would never have been able to adopt policies so favourable to Chinese economic development – critical to most of Australia’s undeserved good fortune – if nearly everyone voted, as in Australia. (I described America as a “plutocracy, tempered by meritocracy, within a framework of law and flavoured with the rhetoric of democracy”. I think you might agree). But, even without living on the edge, as in Hong Kong, I begin to be apprehensive about the way the huge strength of China is going to be used. It is chilling when an inoffensive Australian of Chinese origin can be locked up, without access to family or lawyers, for interrogation for 7 months when he visits China and then be subjected to (still vague) charges of spying. Mind you Australians should never be extradited to America – another, not wholly different subject. And then there are those Canadians arrested just to put pressure on Canada…. It would be reassuring if we heard of President Xi making speeches to his people consistent with the true greatness and dignity of China, calmly pointing out that it was time to stop bleating about a century of humiliation and that the dignity of the great Chinese people demanded that they not distort the past but, if thinking deeply and honestly about it, consider how the leading civilisation of 500 and 1000 years ago failed to arrive at the modernity the whole world now aspires to until the 20th century. Instead we have to think of nearly 1.3 billion people as ignorantly nationalistic as about 330 million Americans…

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Chinaman
  236. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    Sorry, for my harsh words.

  237. Biff says:
    @Chinaman

    Go mind your own fucking business,

    I like it. Well said.

  238. Malla says:
    @Priss Factor

    The French Empire did do a lot of good.

    Check out the truth about the Algerian ‘War Of Independence’.

    http://crc-internet.org/our-doctrine/national-restoration/algerian-war/

    The European Empires were destroyed from within.

  239. Biff says:
    @onebornfree

    What you describe is communism, _not_ capitalism. Communism is a system designed to steal the wealth of the country and siphon it all off to the elite insiders- which is, coincidentally, exactly what you admit to be the case in China. 🙂 .

    What’s the difference from when government controls business or business controls government ?

    Or maybe, what do they have in common?
    Hint: wealth concentration, elite insiders, nepotism

    You people constantly whining about your different “isms” gets tedious real quick – will your brains ever grow up?

  240. Seraphim says:
    @onebornfree

    Control always win. It has the wherewithal to achieve its goals (1,4 billion vs 7 million, 5,000 years of history vs the paltry 200 years of the land of the ‘free’, planned economy vs the chaos of ‘free enterprise’, good governance vs the circus of ‘elections’ a la Americaine).
    Thinking that China is ‘desperate’ over HK and that its economy is ‘going bust’ is downright ludicrous (Chinese live better and better and get richer and content; you don’t risk to be shot without notice by a gun wielding ‘borne free’).
    China is certainly annoyed (who wouldn’t be – I was there) by the shenanigans of the Twat generation. It dealt with the much more serious problems of Tibet and Xinjiang to imagine that the troubles in HK are more than a mosquito bite on the elephant skin. Besides, it is proven that the Color Revolution methodology is no longer capable of producing the expected results of overthrowing legitimate authority and installing a puppet government. If things come to a head (but they won’t) umbrellas won’t be shields against real bullets.

  241. Anonymous[158] • Disclaimer says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Pol Pot actually killed less people than the Americans did in Vietnam and since.

    Maybe because you say so? Nothing else can back that claim, apart from your will that it be so. Maybe your will is enough to make history, perhaps you can judge that yourself.

    The rest was 38% namecalling and 62% straw men, quite the standard distribution when people want to reply to something they didn’t like reading (because they agree with it, probably) but really don’t know what to reply.
    Namecalling and straw men are always a good pick.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  242. annamaria says:
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus, a righteous rider on a white horse, needs the context. Here it is: https://www.rt.com/uk/467538-psychological-torture-pilger-assange-prison/

    • Replies: @annamaria
  243. annamaria says:
    @annamaria

    Here is more for Corvinus and other prudes like “one born unfree:”
    https://www.mintpressnews.com/dark-secret-behind-british-billionaire-joe-lewis-parallel-state-in-argentina-patagonia/256068/

    for over a decade many locals have used every tool at their disposal to oppose one billionaire’s effort to turn the town and much of Río Negro into his own personal fiefdom. This struggle has seen massive demonstrations in El Bolsón against [Jewish] British billionaire Joe Lewis, with some attracting as many as 15,000 participants – nearly 80 percent of the town’s entire population.

    Lewis, worth an estimated $5.2 billion according Forbes, is best known in the West for owning the British Tottenham Hotspur football club, his sprawling luxury estates and golf resorts in the Bahamas and Florida, and owning well-known brands including Puma sportswear and Vans shoes.

    Since the mid-1990s, Lewis has been building an empire in Patagonia, having become the owner of extensive properties north of El Bolsón — which, among other things, contain almost all of the town’s water reserves, as well as those of the nearby farming community, Mallín Ahogado — and the de facto power behind Pampa Energía, the company controlling most of Argentina’s electricity production. …

    First, as per Argentine law, the sale of the property that Lewis has owned since 1996 is prohibited to a foreign citizen on national security grounds…

    Second, it violates a local law dating back to 1969 that caps the maximum amount of land that any individual – Argentine citizen or foreigner – may own at around 70 hectares (~172 acres).

    Third, it violates a provincial law passed in 1994 that created a protected natural area called the Río Azul Lago Escondido Natural Protected Area…

    This story trumps the “organic” color revolution in Hong Kong. People in Argentina have been protesting the zionist’s grab of Argentinian land for a decade !

    Why the allegedly freedom-loving MSM has been totally mute on this veritably democratic development in Patagonia? –Because zionists want other peoples’ land, again, and to notice that would be antisemitic. Human dignity be damned.

    The zionist recreation of Gaza Ghetto in Argentina:

    for over a decade many locals have used every tool at their disposal to oppose one [zionist] billionaire’s effort to turn the town and much of Río Negro into his own personal fiefdom. This struggle has seen massive demonstrations in El Bolsón against [Jewish] British billionaire Joe Lewis, with some attracting as many as 15,000 participants – nearly 80 percent of the town’s entire population.

  244. annamaria says:

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/dark-secret-behind-british-billionaire-joe-lewis-parallel-state-in-argentina-patagonia/256068/

    According to the research of former French intelligence officer turned journalist Thierry Meyssan, Joe Lewis [wealthy zionist-squatter on the pristine Patagonian land] has been inviting thousands of Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers to his territory annually.

    “Since the Falklands War, the Israeli army has been organizing ‘holiday camps’ in Patagonia for its soldiers. Between 8,000 and 10,000 of them now come every year to spend two weeks on Joe Lewis’ land.”

    This is despite the decade-long protests of the local community.

    Seems that Mr. Lewis wants the “most moral” to familiarize themselves with the terrain before expelling and murdering the locals for the next round of “promised land.”

    Here are the first signs of the future Gaza Ghetto in Patagonia: “Lewis’ frontman Van Ditmer stated: “We are going to defend the private property with the Winchester in the hands; with blood if needed”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lewis_(British_businessman)

    • Replies: @Malla
  245. @Anonymous

    LOL. Here you start researching it, with Vietnam

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties

    And continue through all other US wars including Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. and don’t forget to add any killed by US military in little Grenada. Now what gives the Yanks the right to fly and sail around the world killing whoever you wish? Estimates claim Pol Pot killed 1.5 to 2 million, and that the US killed 20 million since WWII. I’m sure Pol Pot had his reasons for killing so many, just like Americans have their own reasons for being mass murderers on other people’s soil.

  246. denk says:
    @Corvinus

    Cut the craps kiddo !

    ‘brutal manner’

    You wanna know what [[[they]]] do to rioters who shut down airport, paralysis subway, commit arson, assault police, invade court house and police stations ?

    Ask uncle George, he should know…

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  247. denk says:
    @onebornfree

    Thanks for the head up, so reason.com is another controlled opposition. 😉

  248. denk says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    if it walks like a cuck, sounds like a cuck
    and quacks like a cuck……….

  249. d dan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “It is chilling when an inoffensive Australian of Chinese origin can be locked up…”

    True, China should provide more info and allow more visitations, but you are jumping ahead to conclusion here. Are the Australian Chinese and the 2 Canadians really “inoffensive”? How do they compare with treatment of Julian Assange?

    Curiously, do you find the arrest of Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou “chilling”? What about the arrest of “American’s Trap” author Frederic Pierucci?

    Frankly speaking, I find the later 2 arrests MUCH more chilling and disturbing than the Chinese arrests. At least Meng and Pierucci had full time NON-political jobs minding their own businesses, and yet American’s global tentacle was still able to snap them anywhere in the world.

  250. @Priss Factor

    Excellent points all. What you are suggesting is that Hong Kong can be returned to China like California was returned to Mexico – simply by re-occupying it.

  251. Chinaman says:
    @Corvinus

    an enlightened freedom fighter like yourself who masturbates to the thought of liberating 1.4 billion Chinese with your keyboard.”

    That would be a strawman on your part. I never directly or indirectly made that statement.

    Apparently, your mental mastubation in public have brought the attention of not only a bunch of bewildered Chinaman but also our host, Ron Unz, whom have honoured our discussion with his presence. Unfortunately, My mother, although not a prude, would not be so approving of your public spectacular. Please keep your infantile thoughts to yourself and use a Love Doll next time. You can buy them on Alibaba.com

    You are talking out of both ends of your mouth here. Which is it, a “dynamic capitalist economy” or “nepotistic socialism”? I was under the impression by the fine posters here that anything socialist is other than desirable for a civilization. The state (China) directs and guides all major aspects of the economy—including both the state and private sectors—while not collecting dividends from the ownership of its enterprises. Chinese state-owned enterprises and privately owned enterprises share several traits with respect to state subsidies, proximity to state power, and execution of government policy objectives.

    The contradictions you described above is exactly why I said the Chinese economy is dynamic. The Chinese economy is hard to pigeonhole with labels and stereotypes. It is a chameleon of nepotism, “socialism with chinese characteristics” and laissez faire. I call it Evolution. The process of trying different things and seeing what sticks. Kind of like the transitional amphibious fossils with both lungs and gills. Basically, it was Deng’s evolution vs Mao’s revolutions. Not giving a damn about the color of the cats as long as it catch mice. It will be hard for an Aryan like yourself, crafted by intelligent design, to be able to understand how evolution works and why things are so complicated. You will learn more about Chinese economy from talking to the prostitutes than reading the Economist or whatever you use for masturbating.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  252. @d dan

    Hey, you, stop talking about what crimes we the free people are committing, this is about China and all it’s crimes.

    Your whataboutism have no place here! Who cares how much worst we are, China bad, China sucks.

    Your logic have no place here.

    The only aspect you should consider is that all bad actions by the protesters/rioters are false flags.

    What, you want a taste of our freedom bombs? Look at all those countries we have bombed to the shits, that is your future if you don’t get in line.

    Be a good poodle, get in line.

    FYI, Chinese leaders aren’t stupid. They know who controls the media in the English speaking part of the world. No free ride when the turd hits the fan.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  253. Chinaman says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I will start by quoting Winston Churchill, who had some audacious plans for China:

    “I think we shall have to take the Chinese in hand and regulate them. I believe that as civilized nations become more powerful they will get more ruthless, and the time will come when the world will impatiently bear the existence of great barbaric nations who may at any time arm themselves and menace civilized nations. I believe in the ultimate partition of China — I mean ultimate. I hope we shall not have to do it in our day. The Aryan stock is bound to triumph.” – Winston Churchill

    Unfortunately, The ultimate partition of China will and always have been at the hands of the Chinese. The lack of a national identity is the obstacle to unity. In most human societies, the unit of evolution and the circle of altruism have rarely extend beyond the at the level of the family or the extended family. Those nations, like Germany and Japan, which have been able to transcend these genetic obstacles and unite its people, cause them to make individual sacrifices for honor and for the greater good will always rise above those which can’t. The degree of genetic homogeneity of its people might have much to do with this. Not much we can do there. Perhaps what China needed was a Hilter and not Mao.

    You are right, as with Churchill, to fear an united China. The surrender of Singapore in WW2 was quite the shock to Churchill the white supremacist. It is doubtful that the Aryan stock or Australia will prevail against a yellow peril united under one flag.

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  254. annamaria says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    False flags and the democracy on the march™ https://www.voltairenet.org/article207320.html

    We saw the most prominent element of the protests, the Hong Kong Independence Movement, waving the old colonial flag in the middle of a press conference. The same phenomenon was observed in Libya and in Syria where the National Transitional Council adopted the flag of the King Idriss and the Free Syrian Army of the French mandate.

  255. Malla says:
    @annamaria

    Thanks this is very interesting. Alas the ((they)) are taking for themselves one of the most beautiful pristine lands in the world. I had read about this before somewhere I do not remember from a different source of IDF soldiers in Patagonia.
    In the event of a World War/Nuclear War, Patagonia may be one of the safest place to be.

  256. Malla says:
    @annamaria

    He is right and you are right too. Both Communism and Western style democracy are arms of the Zio elites.

  257. onebornfree says: • Website

    Here we go. This could well be the start of something big, and very bad, for the people of Hong Kong, considering that there are very large [now illegal]protests planned for this coming Saturday. 100’s of tanks, 1000’s of troops reportedly on the move into Hong Kong since early Thursday [082919]morning for supposed “normal, in-out troop rotations” . [Yeah right 🙁 ] :

    Chinese troop movement into Hong Kong prompts unease

    “Chinese military vehicles have been seen moving across the border into Hong Kong, in what the military said were regular troop movements, as fears rose that the city could see a Beijing-led crackdown after months of political unrest.

    Following witness reports of the movements in the early hours of Thursday, state-run news agency Xinhua released a report that the Hong Kong Garrison of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) was making a scheduled rotation and that it was an “annual normal routine”.

    The images published by Xinhua showed armoured carriers and trucks carrying troops at the border, and a naval vessel arriving in Hong Kong.

    In the previous two rotations – in 2017 and 2018 – state media reports noted that the number of troops and equipment had not changed. This year the report does not include that detail. It is estimated there are between 8,000 and 10,000 troops in the garrison, on either side of the border.

    The movements come before a major anti-government demonstration planned for Saturday, as Hong Kong nears its third month of mass protests. On Thursday, the organiser of the demonstration, Civil Human Rights Front, received notice that police had banned the event…….”:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/29/chinese-troop-movement-into-hong-kong-prompts-unease

    Regards onebornfree

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  258. @d dan

    I haven’t the time to go into detail but do have sympathy for your points.

    The Julian Assange case is a more complicated outrage than most. I am not sure whether I should the actions of the US, Swedish, UK, Australian and Ecuadorian governments/authorities as equally reprehensible…..

    What a really powerful, difficult-to-put-pressure-on government does is inherently more chilling because there is so little protection for the individual against intolerable conditions. Is even a Conrad Black in China imprisoned in something like a holiday camp? Still, renditions have to count as US crimes comparable to what might expect of the totalitarians…..

    • Replies: @d dan
  259. onebornfree says: • Website

    People’s Liberation Army of China Enters Hong Kong:

    Regards, onebornfree

  260. @Chinaman

    I don’t think I raised any prospect of Australia “prevail[ing] against” a united China. I merely hope that Australia can live in an environment where much more populous and powerful countries don’t want any of the other countries which are much more populous than Australia to dominate it. Thus I hope China, Japan, Indonesia and India all see merit in leaving Australia to be run as an inoffensive quarry and food bowl where their tourists and students are welcome. To the extent that Asian countries still have problems of excess population they will, nonetheless, recognise that Australia cannot be regarded as offering a solution because of the infertility of most of its soil and its lack of water.

    I had never come across the Churchill quote. But I have often requoted since John Derbyshire introduced me to it, the June 1864 letter to The Times by Darwin’s cousin Sir Francis Galton, headed “Africa for the Chinese”. And I look to Chinese immigrants to Australia (especially but not only) diaspora, even if not quite the top intellects who make it to China’s top universities to strengthen the reasonably well run and prosperous Australia that exists today. While it seems inevitable that the dysgenically breeding descendants of the vigorously breeding 19th century Anglo-Celtic immigrants are going to include many resentful opponents of Asian immigrants and their issue I am modestly optimistic about the stability and prosperity which can be maintained where immigrants are good for the national IQ, industrious and not madly religious. Though the almost equal number of Indians – approx 1 milliin – are not nearly as prosperous as Chinese I see them, mostly Brahmin or otherwise not-stupid, as offsetting any tendency for excessive Chinese influence. With luck Australia will settle for being a successful liberal capitalist modern welfare state where race is irrelevant. That’s not a problem with most educated upper classes so I see how important it is not too import the relatively dim. It is a bit concerning that Australia’s education system(s) haven’t been doing too well on some measures recently. I’m not sure of the causes or whether itbis significant.

    • LOL: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  261. onebornfree says: • Website

    Clues That China’s “Garrison Rotation” In Hong Kong Is Preparation For Mainland Invasion

    “Some call a one-way troop movement a “rotation”. I tend to call them “buildups” or simply an “invastion” — writes Hayman Capital’s Kyle Bass. While Chinese military officials and state media are still claiming ‘nothing to see here’ as fresh People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops and armored vehicles have continued to pour into Hong King since early Thursday morning, the influx could mark the early phase of a looming major military crackdown from Beijing feared by many.

    As we reported earlier, while the People’s Daily and other state media say it’s part of a routine and planned 22nd annual rotation of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) garrison in Hong Kong — a normally significant logistical feat given PLA troops at the garrison number between 8,000 and 10,000 troops on either side of the border — there are clear alarming signs Chinese forces are prepping specifically for riot control and crowd suppression operations. ..”

    “…State media footage appears to show WJ-03B 6X6 anti-riot Wheeled Armored Vehicles (a variant or upgrade of the WZ901 armored vehicle) moving into Hong Kong.

    These vehicles are specifically designed for People’s Armed Police (PAP) anti-rioting and internal security missions, precisely what one would expect if the mainland were prepping operations to crackdown on HK democracy protests. No mere ordinary or “routine” troop transport vehicles among the many pouring in as part of the turnover in HK garrison troops……”:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-29/signs-chinas-garrison-rotation-hk-actually-preparation-major-crackdown.

    Regards, onebornfree

  262. Malla says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    With luck Australia will settle for being a successful liberal capitalist modern welfare state where race is irrelevant.

    Good luck with that.

  263. Chinaman says:
    @onebornfree

    It is my daughter’s 8 year old birthday this weekend and we will going celebrate on a yacht I borrowed from my billionaire friend. I am looking forward to it and the hope the weather will play nice . I am not a bit concerned about the tanks and the prospect of human meat patties.

    There is indeed palpable excitement in the air and just as you, I can’t wait to see this spectacle. I invite you and your ilk to come and stand in solidarity with HK and defend whatever perverse definition of freedom you seems to hold.

    I will be the first to stand ON the tanks waving a Chinese flag and singing the Chinese anthem with my PLA breathen, making human meat patties of “freedom” fighters like you and Corvinus who stand in our way.

    I can’t wait to be liberated.

    I can’t wait for “one country, one system” and for HK to be incorporated into the Greater Bay Area. Most of the problems we have in HK is due to the vestige of the British colonial system and the oligarchs billionaire HK families that holds too much sway.

    I can’t wait to send all the fifth columns packing to go back to wherever the fuck they come from. I am sick of the sanctimonious pontification, the overweening gesticulation and the shameless hypocrisy.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  264. Corvinus says:
    @denk

    Duly noted how you clearly napped through the Revolutionary War discussion in your high school class.

  265. Corvinus says:
    @Chinaman

    Resorting to ad hominem, rather than honestly address the contradiction I posed to you, is a clear sign that you are NOT from China. Chinese men are honorable and refrain from the crass behavior that you are displaying.

  266. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Chinaman

    You are piece of human excrement, just like the rest of the commie filth. I hope all you naive fools get exactly what you all deserve. Rot in hell, scum

    No regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @denk
  267. All the hue and cry about the HK protests is well and good, but for sinister reasons: the yearning for past colonial and imperial glories. Some parallels here with the Arab Spring, where support for the AS movement was selective and any indications that the success of the AS would steer those countries towards greater independence, was met with a painful death with the post-AS era worse than before. All that aside, apart from France, where the Yellow Vest movement appears to be marking time, is any of what is happening in HK or France even remotely possible here in the US? I think not. Is it because the US is not ripe for a Spring – indeed a revolution of its own – to liberate us from the Anglo-Zionist stranglehold? Far from it. We are more ripe for a revolution than Malawi, Fiji, Egypt, Kenya, Honduras, Guatemala, Israel, Brazil, Argentina and England combined, to name a few countries. But our mobile phone-obsessed citizenry would need a truly rude awakening for that revolution to even come within a dream’s reach.

  268. denk says:
    @onebornfree

    onebornfraud,

    ‘govns are the scourge of humanity.
    None of them can be trusted’

    ‘According to the US govn , WARsj, GUardian, the CCP is holding bet 1-3 millions [sic] UIghurs in concentration camps.

    UNZ’s resident anarchist swears by, of all govn, uncle scam !
    ROFLMAO !

    ‘According to zerohedge, China is ready to send in the goons, tanks and all’

    We already know 0hedge is controlled opposition.
    Surely you and your paymasters are drooling at the prospect of a bloodbath ?
    isnt that your wet dream…TAM2, the real deal ?

    • Replies: @Onebornfree
  269. d dan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    1. My objection to your original post is your automatic assumption that Chinese government is wantonly arresting innocent people (the Australian Chinese and the 2 Canadians). Like most people in the west, you jumped to conclusion without even understanding the details of the cases.

    2. A further example is the recent outrage about the arrest of a UK Consulate employee for prostitution. It demonstrates how western response is almost like a Pavlov’s dog. Even after the truth was revealed, the west was still totally unrepentant, e.g. some (like Bloomberg, New York Times) insinuate that the employee might be framed. Canadian Consulate office in Hong Kong even advised employees not to travel to mainland. Chinese immediately see the hilarious irony that was totally unnoticed by the west – are Canadians openly admitting that their employees have the propensity to visit prostitution and therefore was afraid that they might be arrested?

    3. Your statement: “What a really powerful, difficult-to-put-pressure-on government does is inherently more chilling…” reveals yet another superficial view:

    3a. What makes you think that US government is any more easy to pressure than the Chinese government? If anything, US government has demonstrated it is stubbornly unable to reform itself or to change policy, even when the majority of the citizens demand that – like its forever war around the world, its police brutality, etc. For Chinese government, it is precisely because it does not conduct election that the government is much eager to listen to its citizens.

    3b. Yes, Chinese government is difficult to put pressure by OUTSIDERS – precisely because outsiders should not have any say about issues that are happening within Chinese border.

    3c. Taking a step backward, why do you even judge which action to be more chilling based on whether the government can be pressured? Shouldn’t you judge it according to which government is more prompt to over-react (US government, considering the number prisoners in US), more likely to resort to violence (US government, considering its militarization of police), or less rational (probably US government, considering the many extra-territorial and overly archaic laws).
    ————–

    The fact that you engage in this discussion means that your knowledge and exposure to the Chinese views is likely more than the average westerners, so your careless conclusion only indicates the depth of anti-China brainwashing westerners have been subjected to.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  270. denk says:
    @onebornfree

    Anyone who still believes in the US govn and its presstitudes must be either insane or a sock puppet.
    Er…You dont sound insane……

    The alt media are swarming with sp like you, enforcing the rule for respectable commentary…
    China is just as bad, if not worse than the unitedsnakes.

    https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2014/10/15/john-v-walsh-the-rule-for-respectable-commentary/

    human excrement, just like the rest of the commie filth. I hope all you naive fools get exactly what you all deserve. Rot in hell, scum

    Look in the mirror asshole.
    empire socket puppet masquerading as some kind of ‘progressive’ , somebody pass me the sick bag. !

  271. Fergus says:
    @Priss Factor

    Beijing should simply offer to trade all those running dogs of Wall Street to the USA for wonderful comrades who will faithfully support their masters in Beijing. Both nations will benefit, especially all the Antifa folk who will get to witness paradise and will no doubt experience it first hand once the Chinese realize what cancerous scum the Yankees have dumped on them.

  272. annamaria says:

    “Hong Kong and the Audacity of the U.S. Part of a “Destabilization War” with China:” https://www.globalresearch.ca/hong-kong-and-the-audacity-of-the-u-s-part-of-a-destabilization-war-with-china/5687191

    The French Yellow Vests know what they are fighting for. The Hong Kong protesters, most of them, follow a few leaders under false pretenses against their country, against Beijing. Granted, many of the protesters are pro-westerners, they sing the US National Anthem, and wave the British flag – the flag of their former colonialists. …

    The protests started with a ‘controversial’ extradition law – which, by the way, exists between most States in the United States, as well as between nations in Europe and to a large extent internationally.

    … the 22-year-old student and western hero of the 2014 Umbrella Revolution, Joshua Wong, trained programmed and funded by the US State Department / NED / CIA. He is the main player in the current protest movement. Wong is the on-the-ground boy for the local media tycoon, Jimmy Lai, who has spent millions of his own money in the 2014 Umbrella Revolution.

    The oligarch uses his funds widely to finance protest leaders and protest groups. He also created his own National Party, with significant xenophobic connotations. … Mr. Lai is very close to the Trump Administration and met, along with many of his protest leaders, with the US envoy in Hong Kong, as well as with National Security Advisor John Bolton – and other US officials. On July 8, Mr. Jimmy Lai met US Vice President Mike Pence at the White House.

    That stinks.

    The 2014th was of course a triumphant year for regime-changers in Obama/Clinton administration (see Ukraine). The blatant interference of US administration in Chinese affairs will not be lost on the Chinese and Russians.
    The French have been learning hard way for some 40 weeks already about “human rights,” “democracy,” and the value of vox populi for the “leaders of western democracies.” France is owned by banksters, same as the EU/US.

  273. @denk

    Are you attributing any/all of those 3 quotes to me? If so, you are just another shining example of the worthless , parasitic , anti-freedom anti-capitalist lying scum bags that frequent this site. Go rot in hell with the rest of the commie scum,you lying piece of shit.

    no regards onebornfree

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @denk
  274. Chinaman says:
    @Onebornfree

    You know you have won the argument when the other party completely lose it.

    Time to close the thread.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  275. Smith says:

    @Chinaman:
    “There is little more satisfying to white people than watching Chinese kill each other. ”
    @Chinaman:
    “I will be the first to stand ON the tanks waving a Chinese flag and singing the Chinese anthem with my PLA breathen, making human meat patties of “freedom” fighters like you and Corvinus who stand in our way. ”

    White people are right, chinamen are the worst enemy of chinamen.

    As a vietnamese, GOOD LUCK Hong Kong. The difference between the HK protest and the Yellow vests/the West is that the HKer have the balls to stand up and fight for themselves, instead of whining on the internet.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  276. Chinaman says:
    @Smith

    White people are right, chinamen are the worst enemy of chinamen.

    “I will be the first to stand ON the tanks waving a Chinese flag and singing the Chinese anthem with my PLA breathen, making human meat patties of “freedom” fighters like you and Corvinus who stand in our way. ”

    Apologies for my cheekiness but of course , unfortunately, you are right. 99% of Chinese history is that of civil war rather than foreign ones.

    I do not see any solution now except to escalate the force. Ideological fanatism have gripped the city and restraint,at the point, will only be seen as weakness and emboldened the kids.

    Violence begets more violence and it might takes a show of determination and overwhelmingly force to end the downward spiral.

    Tanks are pretty useless against human targets by the way but they will scare away the kids.

    It may interest you to know that there is some rumours that the the pro-independence protestors are not Chinese but descendants of Vietnamese boat people who was naturalise to HK citizen before the British left. ( or may be you already know this). Apparently, there are 300,000 of these people in HK and they maintained links with the US. One of the loudest people in the pro-independence camp is Joshua Wang and apparently of Vietnamese descent.

    This would obviously explain everything since these protestors are really not Chinese and why they want to be “stand up for themselves” and independence, as you said ! Anyway, don’t be agitated and take what I say about the tanks or the Vietnamese fifth column too seriously. This is just the internet.

    I am contended and I don’t see anything that is worth fighting for. No one is whining.

    • Replies: @Smith
  277. Cratylus says:
    @Dutch Boy

    There is a hitch, however.
    No one can be deported for a crime that is not also a crime in HK.
    And no one can be deported without the approval of multiple layers of HK courts.
    And the extradition is not just to the Mainland but to Macao and Taiwan.
    The original reason for the bill was the case of a young HK man who went to Taiwan with his girlfriend and found she was pregnant by someone else. He killed her, chopped her up, stuffed her in a suitcase and fled back to HK. When he was discovered, he was safe in HK with no way of extraditing him back to HK. The mother of the murdered girl wrote to the CEO of HK who advanced an extradition bill which then triggered the protests that were egged on by paranoia about the Mainland.
    It also says that the HKers do not have much faith in their great British-style judicial system.

  278. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    I-it’s just a prank, bro!

    The chicom cries out as he fantasizes about sending tanks to crush his own people.

    And that’s one thing vietnamese and chinese worldwide can agree to, that the chicom government should keep the hell out of what is not there. And as long as HKer fight hard for what’s truly right, it doesn’t matter how many CIA/KGB/FSB/Mossad/jew/mohamedian/vietnamese accusations they got, they will win.

  279. Parfois1 says:
    @Commentator Mike

    And we should worry more about the boot stomping on our heads, and it will be from the same source prodding those Hong Kong kids to do the impossible, bring down PR China.

    Wise words. The constant demagoguery going on here must be the product of an well-orchestrated and funded plan of obfuscation designed to muddle matters and minds – another diversion to enable the not so hidden powers to carry on their nefarious policies of plunder and social degradation – the zio-neoliberal alliance stomping our heads, their addled footsoldiers drugged with the empty slogans of “freedom”, “democracy” and similar inanities – especially the ones who think they were born “free”. What an utter crap.

  280. @d dan

    Thank you for taking the trouble to write that reply. With only time for the most superficial answer I think you posssibly mistake my reference to what I found chilling. It was an approximately objective test: wouldn’t you want your family member to be arbitrarily arreated in Malaysia or Bhutan rather than China?

    Then, while your 3b is right on point I can’t agree that things are so simple even though I am not an aficianado of the Duty to Protect. Try thinking through the full implications of a principle which allows you to say “outsiders should not have any say about issues that are happening within Chinese border.” if you take that to the literal extreme.

    Finally, without being diverted by the prostitution allegations which I had not heard of, I don’t think one needs to be sure of the precise circumstances of the recent Australian-Chinese or Canadians cases to know that one should fear the CCP even more than the appalling attempts at extra-territorial reach of the US which, in IMO should almost never be allowed to extradite an Australian. But at least money for lawyers can buy some protection from departures from the rule of law in the US which appears not to be true in China (or a number of other less powerful and, therefore, prima facie, less terrifying countries). And, for an Australian, the US does not set a high standard so China’s ability and willingness to use naked power is indeed chilling.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @d dan
    , @Biff
  281. JHW says:

    Why be so disparaging? There should be a lot of people in Hong Kong who do not like the Chinese government for one reason or another. Dissenters in China have fled to the ex-colony since it was founded for very practical reasons. It does not mean they necessarily liked the British. Even if they did so what?

    Why shouldn’t such people fear extradition to China? China likely dislikes many of them. It should be clear enough that whatever help the West is offering to fuel the rebellion there is a certain sincerity in this. You let your politics run wild. So what if the HK Chinese were agents of Britain or certainly willing enough to live under British rule? People generally work to make a living in the world they find.

    Your argument means that if you dislike a state you have reason to condemn all the people who are living happily enough with that state. Not everyone is an idealogue. Most people are far more practical when dealing with the states they live under and the Chinese are known to be very practical across their long history.

    If the Chinese government has the right to assert its will against the HK people and force them to accept a doctrine and life they do not want simply because that territory is now claimed by China then Britain certainly had the right to refuse to return the colony when it was in possession and during its time impose a Western way of life which would be forced, if necessary, on all unwilling. Obviously it managed to do that by force or persuasion or there would not be any support for the West in Hong Kong.

    By your own account sovereignty is independent of formal legal agreements or treaties and such can be dispensed with whenever desired or needed. All that matters is the force to do it. The people are all puppets of whatever state rules.

    I think you do not care for the people of Hong Kong in any way but do like the Chinese government and do not like the British government so you spin your opinion of the Hong Kong population and its desires to serve your prejudices. Perhaps, in reality, Hong Kong is loyal only to itself and not to Britain or China but the legacy of the West serves their needs better at present.

  282. Chinaman says:

    I am watching the protest on live TV and these kids throwing petrol bombs and using air guns against the police or the violence against innocent people who disagree with them

    I am thinking to myself, what autocratic totalitarian evil commie government would tolerate this kind of violent act!

    If the freedom of expression and the freedom doing whatever the fuck you want is the measure of liberty, then Hong Kong is the freest place in the world and America and western democracies are autocracies!

    These are from my personal collection, THE TRUTH you will never see from MSM.

    This is the Unz special.

    I will show all of you guys what these rioters really are. I dare any of you to say you support these rioters after watching these videos.

    [MORE]

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/0PfuNCrllFNo69cKzc4aTh-4Q

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/0DxJuVPz-wxU2Q5Z0kCZf7bNQ

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/0C9D9lIq2LnAfGBWnMzWHuGug

    反送中清場首度開槍

    【反送中清場首度開槍 | 荃灣 | 無刪剪】案發經過:荃灣眾安街大鴻輝中心外,一名示威者(片頭白衣黑背囊)突然高叫「得一部警車」,然後號召多名示威者,破壞一輛正在離開現場的警車。警車停留,兩名警員落車後「落單」並走至沙咀道的十字路口。其中有警員擎槍,現場傳出最少有一槍聲響。--------------【新聞資料庫・分類天下事】https://wp.me/PaaypJ-Aw7⬇️更多內容盡在⬇️新傳網 ➜https://www.symedialab.com/IG ➜http://bit.ly/symligYouTube ➜ http://bit.ly/symlyt

    Posted by Symedialab 新傳網 on Sunday, August 25, 2019

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/01Qu4StDHThxUQ9rrqgi_4gBQ

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/0DS_Guds3PMhldEaNxHzcpkzA

    Is this the FREEDOM you want to see in your country???

    • Replies: @Smith
  283. Smith says:

    Can’t wait until the UK’s Remoaners protests flare up and baste “Israel Shamir” makes an article about glorious british people fighting for their independence and democracy to remain in the EU.

    It’s all geopolitics, there’s ZERO morality or ideology here.

    China = GOOD thus Hong Kong protest = BAD/CIA.
    UK = BAD thus UK protest = GOOD (unless it’s a pro-Brexit protest then IT’S BAD!)

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @Ber
    , @Israel Shamir
  284. Ber says:
    @Smith

    Watch this video… Fair and valid observations.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  285. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    Oh the poor cops who water cannon the dissidents.

    Do you feel pity for the cops who mutilate the Yellow Vests, yes or no?

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  286. denk says:
    @Onebornfree

    asshole,

    Did you advertise your supposed disdain of all govn at every chance ?

    YES

    dId you then quote the serial lying USG and its presstitudes as your go to source ?

    YES

    You’r a god damned sock puppet
    QED.

    P.S.
    What’s worse than a sock puppet, ?
    A sock puppet who moralise !

    P.S.
    barking like a rabid dog doesnt make you any more credible.

    HHHEHE

    • Replies: @Smith
  287. Smith says:
    @denk

    Are you a sock puppet of the commie jews?

    Why is badmouthing the commie jew drive you into such a frenzy?

    Amerijews = bad.
    Russiajews = bad.
    Chinajews = bad.
    Israeljew = bad.
    Iranianjew = bad.
    Jews = bad.

    Reject the jew peckers from your mouth and think for yourself.

  288. denk says:

    hOW many real journo like Ben are left in the
    unitedsnakes, 5 %, 3 ?

    • Replies: @Smith
  289. Smith says:
    @denk

    Yeah, we have plenty of them in mainland China, as you can see.

    The government pays them, you see.

    • Replies: @denk
  290. denk says:

    Forget ((()))
    Fuck the [[[five liars]]]
    and fuck you !

  291. annamaria says:
    @Ber

    Globalists want more festering wounds on the borders of Russia and China.

    Meanwhile, the US interests have been eclipsed by Israeli interests. Israel-firsters in the US government don’t even hide their loyalty but demand more support for takfiris in Syria to save Eretz Israel project: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/08/syrian-rebels-feel-left-behind-burn-traitor-erdogans-picture.html#comments

    US “Syrian envoy” James Jeffrey spoke at the Aspen Security Forum last month, articulating Plan B to follow the failure of America’s Plan A – the removal of Assad.

    James Jeffrey (July 19, 2019):

    We are trying to leverage the fact they [Syrians] have made no real progress to show them once again you cannot win this war [against takfiris that are financed and armed by Israel/US/EU governments].

    …our plan B is to work with the Russians on this compromise solution step by step through that political process through to U.N. monitored national elections and a government that will actually behave like a normal country [a vassal to the ZUSA] in return for foreign forces beginning with the Iranians withdrawing… [The ZUSA obviously wants Russians to withdraw as well].

    So that’s the program that we’re putting on the table. Until then we’re trying in every way to up the pressure: there’s military pressure simply by the fact that U.S. forces are with our local allies [fanatical jihadis]…

    There’s economic pressure, there are very extensive sanctions on Syria…We’ve also been successful in blocking any reconstruction assistance [to ensure that more Syrian children die — here Jeffrey channels another murderous zionist, M. Albright] to this regime or any of the areas that the regime [since when Syria is “regime” but Saudis are the bestest friends of US “democracy?”] controls until we see the political process and that’s working [to satisfy the Jewish State’s interests].

    The Israel-firster James Franklin Jeffrey has one and only one loyalty:

    James Franklin Jeffrey grew up in a Conservative Jewish family https://www.revolvy.com/page/James-Franklin-Jeffrey

    • Replies: @annamaria
  292. annamaria says:
    @annamaria

    https://lobelog.com/how-saudi-arabia-and-israel-undermine-the-war-on-terror/

    Israel supported the anti-Assad forces in Syria, and Israeli officials let it be known that they would prefer a Wahhabi takeover of that country as opposed to President Assad remaining in power. …

    In an interview with the Jerusalem Post back in September 2013, the Israeli ambassador to Washington at the time, Michael Oren, remarked, “We always wanted Bashar Assad to go, we always preferred the bad guys who weren’t backed by Iran to the bad guys who were backed by Iran”. Israel even went as far as to provide assistance to al-Qaeda elements fighting the Syrian state. A report by the Wall Street Journal in March 2015 revealed that Israel had provided medical treatment to al-Qaeda terrorists who had been wounded in the fighting.

    No wonder that James Franklin Jeffrey boasts about the US successful blocking of any reconstruction assistance in Syria. He would personally murder each and every Syrian child to see his dream of Israel’s domination in the region materialized. https://aspensecurityforum.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/The-Role-of-the-U.S.pdf
    In short, 9/11 was a good thing for the Jewish State and Israel-firsters.

  293. onebornfree says: • Website

    What Will China Do With The Hong Kong Protests?

    “As China continues ostensibly to weigh its options, then, any optimism on the part of the protesters and the West appears to be premature.

    The real “elephant in the room” not being addressed, however, is what the Hong Kong protests are really about: 2047, when Hong Kong is supposed to be handed over to China without any “one country, two systems” protection. What then?”
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/what-will-china-do-hong-kong-protests

    “Hong Kong Police Fire Live Rounds To Quell Protesters As Chaos Rules Streets”
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/firebombs-teargas-and-mayhem-hong-kong-rages-after-protest-leaders-arrested

    Hong Kong Protesters Use Umbrellas, Lasers, and Respirators to Evade Surveillance and Tear Gas
    https://reason.com/2019/08/09/hong-kong-protesters-use-umbrellas-lasers-and-respirators-to-evade-surveillance-and-teargas/

    China Escalates Hong Kong Conflict By Detaining Consulate Staffer
    https://reason.com/2019/08/22/china-escalates-hong-kong-conflict-by-detaining-consulate-staffer/

    onebornfree

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  294. Smith says:

    Crisis in America is Russia’s fault (CNN’s talking point).
    Crisis in China & Russia are America’s fault (RT’s talking point).

    Pigs becoming like humans, they will never stop blaming the others for their own problems.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Felix Keverich
  295. denk says:
    @Smith

    I’ve wasted too much time with corvinanus,
    onebornfreak as it is, go play with yourself sonny.

    • Replies: @Smith
  296. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Chinaman

    You’ve won and will win, nothing , you brainwashed, murderous young fool. Go stand on a tank,and make a nice easy target for some enterprising HK individual-please.

    If that wish of mine doesn’t pan out, I can rest assured that, sooner or later you and other pro-commie anti-human naive fools like yourself will doubtless be disappeared/liquidated in the first couple of internal commie purges that will occur, sooner or later [they always have,they always will], when your so-called “friends”/higher ups decide that you haven’t been sucking Xi’s[or whomevers] dick quite hard enough.

    Either way, I look forward to it, so good riddance.

    No regards,onebornfree

  297. Smith says:
    @denk

    Go play with Winnie the Pooh, he misses ya.

    I am here to destroy your narrative.

  298. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    Mister, are you aware of how many US military basis are stationed near Chinese and Russian borders? No? You need to check the numbers (and compare the numbers to how many Chinese and Russian military bases are stationed near the US borders) to present yourself as an informed person on this forum.

    You also need to check what country has been doing regime changing in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Caucasus region, South America… Otherwise, according to your gospel, the coup d’etat in Ukraine (currently ruled by opportunistic Jews and Banderites) and “we came, we saw, he died” in Libya (currently featuring a slave market) had happened by immaculate conception.

    • Replies: @Smith
  299. @Smith

    There is no crisis in Russia per se, but we do have a Western sponsored protest/opposition movement. You can tell it’s Western-sponsored, because their agenda has nothing to do with what normal Russians want, but has everything to with what State Department wants from Russia.

  300. denk says:

    If not for Ben here, I’d have written off the
    [[[family]]] wholesale !

    hehehe

    P.S.
    Dont confuse it with ((())) !

  301. Chinaman says:
    @Smith

    It depends on who instigated the violence and whether there was provocation on either side.

    In HK’s case, the rioters started each and every one of the violent clashes after being warned several times. The police have a protocol to follow and have shown restraint in many case.

    if people don’t violate the law, I am sure the police would rather do nothing.

    Do you support law and order? Yes or No?

    • Replies: @Smith
  302. getaclue says:
    @Mark Hunter

    Read some of the comments here–they seem to love them some Mao–like the NYSlimes loves it some Joe Stalin even today years after their ace Reporter declared he didn’t commit any Mass Murders contrary to all those millions of dead bodies …. I read this book some time ago and found it well documented. I recommend it to anyone loving or clueless as to Mao and what he was really like and what he did. https://www.librarycat.org/lib/michael.cox120/item/123006730

    After reading it, and the photos etc., how anyone could praise Mao or the ChiCom “system”, even with the new “financial incentives” package, is beyond me. You would have to be an idiot or seriously brainwashed. The sad part is we are seeing the same “system” imported into the USA by useful idiots after years of infiltration of the Government, Education, and “Entertainment” by Communists. The Soviet KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov predicted this all would happen decades ago (he helped do it so he knew what was up!) and he was of course right. Look around.

    • Replies: @Ber
  303. aristotle says:

    I admire Shamir’s intelligence, courage, and truth telling. He is, however, a communist apologist and that’s a serious flaw.

    Hong Kong should have autonomy if that’s what the people there wish for. The CCP are certainly no angels and sad that Shamir seems to support them in this conflict.

    • Replies: @d dan
  304. onebornfree says: • Website

    Hong King Kong

    “….Sending in troops would hurt China’s economy something real bad, because it would mean the end of the Hong Kong trade hub (corporations, banks, rich people would leave). And most of the population understand the now-or-never notion. I read somewhere that though 92% of the people are ‘Chinese’, only 11% call themselves that.

    [MORE]

    The vast majority ‘identifies’ as Hong Kongers. And (perceived) freedom is a big part of that. Many of those Hong Kongers are young and highly educated, salaries are high (finance sector), they can travel freely, study abroad. Those who are older are often the parents of these young people, who’ve worked very hard to give their kids these options.

    There have been -and will be again- protests from groups of doctors, lawyers, finance professionals, you name it. They don’t want to run the risk of being picked off the streets by mainland Chinese soldiers OR by Hong Kong police forces instructed by Beijing.

    When/If things get down to the wire, Hong Kongers will prove very much to be an immovable force. They have too much to lose not to be. They have, in their own view, everything to lose (which some people would translate as nothing to lose, but meaning the same). And they’re up against a Politburo that reacts to them like it’s never left the early 1900s.

    This does not bode well for anyone, and if g-d forbid it comes down to serious fighting in the streets, it will bode ill for the entire world. Not only China depends on Hong Kong for much of its trade, the US and EU do, too, for their trade with China, from which they procure much of what is sold in their stores.

    High time for everyone to sit down and talk. If there’s still time. The mass protest scheduled for tomorrow, August 31, may have been ‘officially’ called off, but there’s no proof Hong Kongers will stay home because of that. There IS proof of more military movements just across the Hong Kong border in Shenzhen, however.

    Pre-emptively arresting and releasing a pair of 22-year-old kids may not do the job anymore for Beijing. But the Communist Party CCP thinks they cannot possibly lose. They may be wrong. 1.3 billion people is a mighty potential force, but it’s not always only about numbers. Sometimes it’s about now or never……:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hong-king-kong

    Regards,onebornfree

  305. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    I support what is right, and righteous violence/self defense against the state is right.

    If the police does not want to be beaten up, they should stop oppressing the people. All of the violence in the protest stem from attempts to stop the protesters, not the reverse.

    Law and order is the mean, not the goal.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  306. Smith says:
    @annamaria

    So because US has military bases outside of China and Russia, any violence against the dissidents in their states are legitimate?

    Same for regime change, not only the US does that either. In fact you are using it as an excuse exactly like what CNN does.

    @ Felix Keverich
    Is the protest against Putin regarding pension and the recent communist rally a US state dept plot?

    Is the fact Putin running low on polls since Crimea stabilized a US plot as well? Did Trump hack the election machines?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  307. onebornfree says: • Website

    “Fuck the communist party” says a HK protestor at the end of this vid.

    I couldn’t agree more:

    Regards, onebornfree

  308. d dan says:
    @aristotle

    “Hong Kong should have autonomy….” – Hong Kong already has autonomy, and it is also one of the most free place in the world, enjoying more freedom than even UK and US. It is enjoying more freedom than its 150 years of UK rule. Funny that nobody in the west care about Hong Kong in that 150 years. So you want Chinese to believe you guys suddenly support and care about Hong Kong? Save me your crocodile tears.

    Being a communist sympathizer is irrelevant here. I, like many other people, don’t like communism, and yet we support what Hong Kong and Chinese government are doing. Disgusting support of the west to those violent rioters are pushing fence-sitters like me to start believing that communism might be the right way to go for the future.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @onebornfree
  309. onebornfree says: • Website

    The Hollow Promise Of A Statist Economy:

    “……Without market-determined prices for goods and services, including market-determined interest rates, discovered through free exchange, it is impossible to establish prices that reflect actual conditions.

    Without prices that are grounded in reality, the production and consumption relationship becomes distorted. In the absence of the natural corrective mechanism of market-determined prices, oversupply and scarcity conditions extend out to absurdity.

    Unfortunately, the young socialists are uninterested in these truths. Not when the goal of hard work and paying one’s way in life has been reduced to a game for suckers. Not when apathy and a life on the dole is filled with such hollow promise.”

    https://acting-man.com/?p=54708

    Regards, onebornfree

  310. Chinaman says:

    These violent delights will have violent ends.

    You come to Unz.com for the below…not MSM

    Give you keyboard freedom fighters what this is really about.

    Not some BS propaganda fake news from Onebornfree or his ilk.

    Protestors chasing police

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/0G4ihXmAVqZ7D8hbsTfodbftw

    Blowback

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/02_uqIqd7v7oK1gJUplzsxeEg

    • Replies: @Smith
  311. romar says:
    @Corvinus

    “These guys wish to restore colonial rule” – No, they want to restore home rule.
    Are you their authorised spindoctor?
    The poster in the picture above says clearly “Make HK Great Britain again.”

  312. d dan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    1. “Thank you for taking the trouble to write that reply” – the pleasure is both ways.

    2, “wouldn’t you want your family member to be arbitrarily arreated in Malaysia or Bhutan rather than China?” – First, you have to measure that against the CHANCE of being ARBITRARILY arrested. What makes you think that you have greater chance of being arbitrarily arrested in China? Just because it is more powerful? Second, it also depends on the charges. In some Muslim countries for example, the punishment for theft is chopping off your hand. I certainly prefer to be arrested for theft in China, in this case.

    3, “Try thinking through the full implications of a principle which allows you to say “outsiders should not have any say about issues that are happening within Chinese border.” if you take that to the literal extreme.” – That is essentially the principle of national sovereignty, isn’t it. Of course, if you want to talk about extreme cases (e.g. humanity disasters, genocide, etc), then all international rules can break down and have exceptions, but you have to agree that China is far, far from those extremes. So no, I still believe STRONGLY that foreigners and foreign government should not have any say about Chinese domestic affairs. They should not interfere in Hong Kong, which they are doing right now.

    4. “But at least money for lawyers can buy some protection from departures from the rule of law in the US ” – I am not sure this is much consolation for most people of ordinary mean – geez, should I choose to go to jail for 3 years or should I pay the lawyer with all my retirement saving? Again, you deviate from the core issue: shouldn’t you be more concerned about the likelihood and the degree of departures from the rule of law in each country?

    5. I believe your fear of China is overblown, caused by your lack of knowledge of Chinese justice system and years of exposure to western propaganda. People in the west also think they invented all concepts of modern social and political instruments – which is totally nonsense. For example, China has a very long and strong tradition of rule of law. For example, the legalism (法家) relied heavily on the rule of law over 2000 years ago to initiate a spectacular rise of Qin in a famous chapter of Chinese history. Successive dynasties (e.g Tang, Song, Yuen, Ming, Qing) all have compiled very complete and detail laws for the nation that we can study today. Recently, I watched a movie where Justice Bao Zheng was advising the Song Emperor it is inappropriate to inquire about a corruption case involving the royal family while the investigation was on-going. This is what we called separation of power – even for the Emperor – over 800 years ago.

    6. Finally, if none of what I say soothe your fear, please be assured there are many intelligent and courageous minds among the 1.4 billion people, and they too will demand fair justice from Chinese government.

    Thank you for the conversation, and I have learned a lot from you.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  313. @d dan

    Thank you. And again apologies that I cannot be more considered and comprehensive.

    The example you gave of the warning or advice to the Emperor is an impressive testimony to the level and character of civilisation but I recall reading that Chinese rule of law meant rule by laws which might have meant that you knew what you were going to be hit with but has a critically different connotation to the rule of law concept which implies that no one is above the law, that it will not be arbitrarily determined by, or its interpretation and application determined by, the current rulers, and that there will be procedural fairness (e.g. a chance to know the charges/issues and to put one’s case fully) and independent judiciary. I actually found Google receptive to the question “What is the difference between rule of law and rule by law?”.

    I have no doubt that many dedicated educated mandarins were very proud of the number of laws they had drafted in the era of Legalism!

    Now that the US seems to have calmed down enough to have given up in renditions and torture so that even the President would not have much chance of having someone arbitrarily locked up to put pressure on another country I would be most apprehensive about China nabbing me and holding me without access to lawyers or family for months before trial by a far from independent judge. Mind you I sympathised with Julian Assange’s distrust of the Swedish system of justice where he was liable to be held for questioning without a lawyer, but, except in Assange’s rather special case Sweden is not powerful enough – or as harsh in its punishments – as China. India? Well it would be nice to know that the courts had time for your case some time in the next 5 years! But in India you would find independent lawyers to act confidently before independent judges so, again, not so chilling.

    As for what are the domestic affairs one shouldn’t presume to interfere with, that can hardly apply to the way one’s fellow citizens or foreign investors are treated.

    • Replies: @d dan
  314. Smith says:
    @d dan

    Save me your crocodike tears of crying about cops being beaten up by “rioters” with bats lol

  315. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    Will you be there to protect the poor defenseless cops who dindu nuffin?

    You should be shipped to France to protect the poor cops over there.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  316. Biff says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    But at least money for lawyers can buy some protection from departures from the rule of law in the US which appears not to be true in China

    Every cell block in GITMO is having a giggle fest at your joke.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  317. onebornfree says: • Website
    @d dan

    d dan says: “…Disgusting support of the west to those violent rioters are pushing fence-sitters like me to start believing that communism might be the right way to go for the future.”

    Delusions of Grandeur: Socialism Is A Fool’s Errand

    “It’s hard enough to plan and manage one’s own individual life, is it not? It’s foolish to think you can even plan the life of another single individual…You can’t!”

    Regards, onebornfree

  318. Chinaman says:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/31/molotov-cocktail-uscis-us-citizenship-immigration-services-office

    Blowback. This is what happens when you stand with HK molotov throwing protestors. Heart -warming.

    I stand with 10m undocumented immigrants against the evil and Racist American regime. I support the Mexican’s claim on Californian and Texas was stolen from them.

    Get a taste of your own medicine, hypocrites.

    • Replies: @Smith
  319. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    An unarmed old drunk who manages to tie up 10 chinese in armor and shield, CIA indeed.

  320. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    If you like them, take them!

    The chinaman shows his true face! Send all the chinese, mexican and african and jews and arabs to Shanghai and Beijing.

    China is not racist, China can take them.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  321. @Smith

    Brexit is good, so you misunderstand me.

    • Replies: @Smith
  322. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    “If the police does not want to be beaten up, they should stop oppressing the people.”

    — Do you understand what you have written? What exactly is so oppressive about an intent to punish a murderer? https://thegrayzone.com/2019/08/17/hong-kong-protest-washington-nativism-violence/

    The protests ostensibly began in opposition to a proposed amendment to the extradition law between Hong Kong, Taiwan, mainland China, and Macau, which would have allowed Taiwanese authorities to prosecute a Hong Kong man for murdering his pregnant girlfriend and dumping her body in the bushes during a vacation to Taiwan.

    All civilized countries have extraditions laws. Or you have your own reading of international law?

    In 2014, Ukrainian policemen were murdered by the so-called “revolutionaries” who happened to be mercenaries paid by the US State Dept. Since then, Ukraine ceased to be an independent country and became an impoverished and divided colony ruled by zionists and NATO/US.

    The “oppressed” in Hong Kong (who obviously have no problems with setting free the murderer of a pregnant girl) have been led by Fifth Column financed and encouraged by the US State Department.

    Among the most central influencers of the demonstrations is a local tycoon named Jimmy Lai. … Days earlier, Lai was in Washington, coordinating with hardline members of Trump’s national security team, including John Bolton. His ties to Washington run deep — and so do those of the front-line protest leaders.

    Millions of dollars have flowed from US regime-change outfits like the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) into civil society and political organizations that form the backbone of the anti-China mobilization. And Lai has supplemented it with his own fortune while instructing protesters on tactics through his various media organs.

    Though Western media has depicted the Hong Kong protesters as the voice of an entire people yearning for freedom, the island is deeply divided. This August, a group of protesters mobilized outside Jimmy Lai’s house, denouncing him as a “running dog” of Washington and accusing him of national betrayal by unleashing chaos on the island.

    Another “cookie revolution” led by the virtuous CIA.
    The CIA in Kiev in 2014: https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/04/15/ukraine-secret-recipe-brennan-kiev/
    Five years later: “IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe’s poorest country:” https://www.intellinews.com/imf-ranks-ukraine-as-europe-s-poorest-country-150301/
    “The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know:” https://beta.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/04/09/the-war-in-ukraine-is-more-devastating-than-you-know/
    Nuland the cookie maker: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/

    Hong Kong has extradition treaties with 21 (twenty one) countries. What is so wrong with an extradition treaty with China?

    • Agree: Chinaman
    • Replies: @Smith
  323. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    Could you be more specific about the “dissidents” and their sponsors?

  324. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    Mr/Ms Smith, have you noticed that MSM is silent about Gilets Jaunes but very vocal about “freedom fighters” in Hong Kong?

    Have you ever heard that leaders of Gilets Jaunes traveled to DC to discuss and coordinated their activities with Bolton and other ziocons? No? — You need to think about that before making your dirty comparison between the democratic movement in France and the Fifth Column-organized operation in Hong Kong.

    “The yellow vests movement or yellow jackets movement is a populist, grassroots revolutionary political movement for economic justice that began in France in October 2018.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement

    “The 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests are a series of demonstrations in Hong Kong and solidarity protests in other cities which began with the aim of withdrawing an extradition bill proposed by the Hong Kong government” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_anti-extradition_bill_protests

    This extradition bill would make the murderer of a young pregnant woman face justice.

    • Replies: @Smith
  325. @Biff

    Touché!

    I did indicate somewhere that I was taking the era of special renditions as over but I had forgotten those legacy prisoners. I am surprised that no one has taken a shot at me over the Australian government’s effective illegal immigrant/boat people deterrent program of keeping them at offshore destinations like Manus Island or Nauru but at least I could reply that they can leave and go home (fare paid) any time and yhat, thanks to bolshie [imagime the unavailable emoji here] lawyers and medics many are getting special treatment.

  326. Smith says:
    @annamaria

    Why does one murderer in HK need to be extradicted to China to face justice for a crime in Taiwan? Sound like a perfect excuse to round up people ans ship them to China?

    HK already has extradiction treaties with other countries? So why the need to have one for China? Hmmmmm? Why not in, say, Singapore? Is China justice the only justice?

    And the protesters are getting oppressed by the police who are armed to the teeth, just like Yellow Vest, while you are here crying crocodile tears about the poor cops.

    And I check RT, the East ZOG’s MSM, and they cover the Yellow Vests every weeks, so it is a lie to say the MSM does not cover the Yellow Vests.

    The Yellow Vest and HK movement stand by together, and both are grassroot, and both of them have achieved a degree of success, just that HK protest is way more popular and fights for a more serious cause (extradiction bill for HK vs high gas right in the YV).

    • Replies: @Rollmop
    , @annamaria
  327. Smith says:
    @Israel Shamir

    OK that is one thing we can agree.

  328. Smith says:
    @annamaria

    And I am a vietnamese male!

    if you want justice, leave it to the local people. It is funny for a Hong Konger to face “real” justice in Beijing!

  329. onebornfree says: • Website

    U.S.Reporter Sits Down With Mainstream Hong Kong Journo To Discuss ChiCom Threat:

    Regards, onebornfree

  330. Rollmop says:
    @Smith

    Perhaps you shouldn’t comment if you don’t understand something. The extradition bill would have allowed extradition to *Taiwan* and Macau as well as China. The murderer would have been sent to Taiwan, not the PRC.

    • Replies: @Smith
  331. Smith says:
    @Rollmop

    It allows extradiction to China, which means any labeled criminals can be shipped to Beijing, and not just this murderer.

    This is what Hong Kongers have problems with, and they are right.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Anon
    , @Rollmop
  332. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    “The Yellow Vest and HK movement stand by together…”

    Could you show some integrity? There is the obvious difference between HK movement controlled from abroad and the homegrown Yellow Vest movement.

    So here is a repost of my question to you:
    Have you ever heard that leaders of the Yellow Vest movement traveled to Washington, DC, to discuss and coordinate their activities with Bolton and other ziocons?

    Why is it so difficult for you to answer this question? Perhaps because Jimmy Lai and his retinue have been too tightly connected to the US State Dept. and the NED? The NED is known as a school for subversive activities such as regime-changing in non-vassal states. You seemingly do believe that the US friendship with the apartheid state of Israel and murderous Saudi despots is a sure sign of the US support for democracy.

    And who told you that RT belongs to western MSM? RT has been harassed in both EU and US. The supposedly democracy-loving western governments (and western MSM) prefer to hush-hush the truly democratic movement in France.

  333. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    You mean, the murderer of the pregnant woman is a “labeled” criminal and needs your protection?

  334. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smith

    means any labeled criminals can be shipped to Beijing, and not just this murderer.

    No, it doesn’t. Read the fucking bill. It has been posted even on this site a numerous times.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Seraphim
  335. Smith says:

    Please show the obvious differences between the Yellow Vest and the Hong Kong protests?
    Both protest against government malpractices.
    Both get beaten up by cops.Both fight back violently if need be.
    Both are grassroots movements formed by people.
    Both fight for so-called democracy.
    Both got leaders arrested while the protest still goes on (Trump tweets to support the Yellow Vest AND the HK protests too.).
    Both stand together against their government.

    It’s you who is divided between East ZOG vs West ZOG who makes a difference.

    Who’s “Jimmy Lai and his retinue”? The so-called “leader” that does not control or has any say in the movement, the exact same thing as various “leaders” of the Yellow Vest?

    And for your information, CNN is also harassed in Russia and China, does that mean CNN is not the MSM? Make no mistake, RT is a Moscow-funded piece, and they are as MSM as they get, just on the different side of the ZOG.

    Also, the Hong Kongers don’t care about the murderer, they care about being labeled criminals by Beijing, the bill does not exist to extract said one murderer, it applies to every HKer who gets labeled as a criminal.

    Your lies will not stand here, chicom yid.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  336. Smith says:

    The Yellow Vest supports Hong Kong!

    The Hong Konger supports the Yellow Vest!
    https://a-louest.info/Soutien-des-gilets-jaunes-de-Hong-Kong-743

    The West ZOG will call you FSB Russian trolls.

    The East ZOG will you call you CIA zionists.

    But two people! The same struggle against BOTH the commies who run France and China.
    Be scared, yids, be very scared for the truth rings hard in your brain.

  337. Smith says:
    @Anon

    LIAR!
    >To differentiate case-based surrender arrangements (to be defined as “special surrender arrangements” in the proposal) from general long-term surrender arrangements;
    >To stipulate that special surrender arrangements will be applicable to Hong Kong and any place outside Hong Kong, and they will only be considered if there are no applicable long-term surrender arrangements;
    LIAR!

    The chicom yid lies while he kvetches about the poor cops.

  338. Smith says:

    Another lie by East ZOG shill!

    The Hong Kong protest is about protecting RICH people.

    Meanwhile:
    1. The extradiction bill does not say that only rich people will be extradicted to China (it does not define rich or poor, just criminal or case).
    2. Rich people make an U-Turn AND SUPPORT the bill:
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333397839_Digital_Representation_in_an_Electoral_Campaign_Influenced_by_Mainland_China_The_2017_Hong_Kong_Chief_Executive_Election
    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3012230/fugitive-tycoon-joseph-lau-withdraws-legal-challenge

    Yes, the Hong Kongers want to protect RICH people so much that RICH people want Hong Kongers to be extradited to Beijing! What hilarity, what BOLD FACE LIE!

    Let the truth rings. Let the chicom smell fear.

  339. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    Well.

    Jimmy Lai and other (younger) acknowledged leaders of the Hong Kong movement have been in contact with the US State Department and the NED. These are well-known facts.

    You are correct that RT (Russian MSM) has been the source of information about the Yellow Vests movement – to the chagrin of western MSM. Western MSM prefers to make noises about the events in Hong Kong but avoids to do any analysis of the Yellow Vests movement. The Yellow Vests have been demonized by western MSM controlled by the western governments — you are welcome to correct either part of this statement.

    The Yellow Vests manifests the democratic movement of French people.

    The Hong Kong movement is the CIA-controlled operation that mimics other regime-changing operations conducted with the help of the US State Dept and NED.

    By the way, where have you learned the word “yid?” — In Israel or Ukraine?

    • Replies: @Smith
  340. Smith says:
    @annamaria

    Jimmy Lai AND ANY other random chinese is not a leader of the Hong Kong protest, much like all the “leaders” of the Yellow Vests that are arrested and probed for Russian connection. BOTH of them are leaderless movements. This is a well-known fact.

    Also, for your information:
    RT, East ZOG MSM, covers Yellow Vest and demonizes Hong Kong protest and accuse them as CIA.
    CNN, West ZOG MSM, covers Hong Kong protest and demonizes Yellow Vest protest and accuse them as FSB/Russian.
    Both outlets claim to be pro-democracy.

    Conclusion: Both outlets are the same propaganda shit while both protest movements that they demonize are grown from the people and both movements stand together.

    And I learn the word yid on the internet, same for the word chicom, thank you very much, my chicom yid!

    • Replies: @Ber
  341. DB Cooper says:
    @Yee

    “Oh, wake up… These people are waving US and UK flags, not KMT flags. KMT has long ceased to matter in anything anymore. Just give them up, please.”

    Yes I know. There are always people doing the more radical things in order to provoke. What I am talking about is the big environment. I am not saying the West does not have a hand on it. I would be surprised if it doesn’t exploit these anti-CCP sentiment in Hong Kong.

    KMT has a long history of presence in Hong Kong. As late as in the 1980s during the Double Tenth anniversary you can see a sea of Chinese flags, the ‘Blue Sky White Sun all is Red flag’ in some of the busiest district of Hong Kong. Some of the older residential areas in Hong Kong were traditionally stronghold of KMT and you can see the ROC flags all year round. This of course no longer existed anymore but the political orientation of the people won’t change just because the flags weren’t there. It just become latent.

    The pro KMT sentiments of the Chinese diaspora (including Hong Kong and Taiwan) are especially strong among the older generations. Watch this clip of Nobel Laureate physicist Samuel Ting. His sentiment are pretty representative among his generations. People who have this view and weren’t discreet about it in the mainland were of course have long been killed in the many past political campaigns.

    By the way lets change course a bit and imagine God forbid these Hong Kong protesters succeed to usurp the political order and become ruler of China and in order to show gratitude to the West’s support they concede Tibet independence because the West always want to carve Tibet out of China just like Russia were instrumental in outer Mongolia’s independence. Imagine how pissed you would be. Well the CCP were at one time young and radical and this is exactly what Mao did to outer Mongolia. But the people in mainland are conditioned by the CCP to be ok with it. Many people actually blame it on the KMT, which is ridiculous. By the way I could not help but think when Samuel Ting said the first thing a new dynasty would do is to rewrite history is a subtle dig on CCP’s historic revisionism.

  342. Beijinger says:

    Glad to see a Vietnamese buying the BS of west MSM and find the truth of the universe.
    With such people growing in its country, it’s foreseeable that one day Vietnam people will stand up for whatever reasons to protest against their corrupted Chicom government and fight against their violent policeman, the good wishing support from White house and the news cover will stand at your side and bring honor and justice to you.
    Or, it could be even better as it seems to go that such people become top leaders in Vietnam government and lead to another glorification of democracy and freedom success for human being.
    Cheers and all the sincere wishes to your country and your people since you on the correct direction!
    As a Chinese, unlike @Chinaman, I gave up communication with those great insightful human minds who know the truth of universe and speak of nonsense BS.
    Effective communication won’t be made without good intension.
    Also, it’s not our duty to let others know us and understand us. One day your child will learn our language to know us in return as we have done that for decades.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Chinaman
  343. Seraphim says:
    @Anon

    When someone talks repeatedly (and it is not a typo) about ‘extradiction’ instead of extradition, it means that he does not know what he is talking about from the start.

  344. Smith says:
    @Beijinger

    Ah yes, the real Peking gives us his delightful opinion! Listen and believe people, for if we don’t buy the BS from Peking, that means we buy the BS from the West!

    If you aren’t pro communism, you are pro democracy! Never mind that communism ADVOCATES democracy!

    Good luck to you too, my Peking friend, it’s not the first or last time you would have a revolt from southern China!

    @Seraphim
    He made a typo, thus disregard whatever he says, such wonderful argument technique!

  345. Ber says:
    @Smith

    The thing about leaderless protests is like a ship without rudder and the protesters will not have a united voice. Do the Hong Kong protesters have a common voice?

    • Replies: @Smith
  346. onebornfree says: • Website

    Hardly anyone here seems to want to consider the [to me] perfectly reasonable idea that the violent protestors are being paid to initiate violence by the CCP and related . The same applies to the HK police.

    “Nah, not possible ! The Chinese state is good! -its the CIA ” , they all crow, in perpetual unison 🙂 .

    Once brainwashed by the state [China, or US, or elsewhere] , always brainwashed by the state.

    And so it goes….

    “Burn With Us” – Protesters Clash With Riot Police At Hong Kong Airport Amid Surge Of Violence:

    “Following one of the most violent days of unrest since the anti-extradition bill protests began three months ago, Hong Kongers again ignored police orders to stay home on Sunday and gathered at Hong Kong International Airport.

    Though Sunday’s demonstration was smaller than Saturday’s, police once again escalated their violent tactics, at one point seeming to indiscriminately beat down young people traveling on the city’s public transit on suspicion that they might be traveling to join the protest……………………Protesters also spray painted “burn with us” and “8.31, 7.21” on walls of Tung Chung MTR. The latter refers to indiscriminate attack in Yuen Long on July 21, and police alleged attacks over protesters and civilians in railway stations………

    …………..In a truly bizarre incident that appeared to confirm reports of local thugs working with Beijing to scare off protesters, a man in a white shirt was reportedly seen chasing protesters with a long knife, though nobody was reported injured and police said they hadn’t received any reports, according to a local English-language blog.

    Videos shared on social media Sunday only added to the outrage, as they showed police in helmets and gas masks beating pedestrians and riders inside a train in Prince Edward station.

    Graphic footage from Sat night shows how #HongKong police stormed Prince Edward MTR station, beating people and making arrests on the platform and train……………”:

    https://www.newswars.com/burn-with-us-protesters-clash-with-riot-police-at-hong-kong-airport-amid-surge-of-violence/

    “Chinese media warns ‘end is coming’ for Hong Kong protesters…”
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Hong-Kong-protests/Xinhua-warns-end-is-coming-for-Hong-Kong-protesters

    Regards, onebornfree

  347. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Smith

    Notice that “Chinaman” apparently lives in HK and likes to fondle his “Kindle” while hanging out on his billionaire friends boat ,who, assuming he’s not a “protected” CCP insider, and assuming he has any practical commonsense left, already knows “which side his bread is buttered on”, and is already planning to sail out of HK for less turbulent waters, if he hasn’t already done so, before the shit really hits the fan, and, post commie takeover, the internal purges begin.

    Regards,onebornfree

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Smith
  348. If those rioters are really brave they would attack the PLA HongKong garrison.

    They would also be stupid to do that.

    But then they already have shown their stupidity by destroying HongKong.

  349. onebornfree says: • Website
    @eah

    So ,”therefor” China should completely overrun HK, right now, right?

    “Regards”onebornfree

    • Replies: @denk
  350. denk says:
    @onebornfree

    I Thought IM already done with this thread, ugh, the onebornfreak asshole is still spewing his bile..

    ‘What are you trying to insinuate here? That I support the policies of the US government, the Pentagon et al? Or that I’m CIA, as some other twerp here, like a trained seal, reflexively assumes?

    Didnt I already prove it….

    Anyone who still swears by the unitedsnake and its presstitudes can only be…
    An idiot or a sock puppet.

    Choose your poison asshole.

  351. denk says:
    @onebornfree

    asshole

    IN USUK, the protestors would’ve been shot
    down like rats by now.

    • Replies: @Smith
  352. Chinaman says:
    @Beijinger

    Yes, the discussion have degenerated to the point it is just a waste of time, I don’t even know what we are arguing about anymore. It is indeed impossible to have a rational discussion when both side can’t establish basic facts that they can agree on.

    The opinions expressed here is a reflection of the problems in HK, everyone just choose their own anecdotes or well-chosen examples to confirm their preconceived biases ( confirmation bias) instead of trying to try to argue from both sides and looking at the totality of the evidence. This is lowest form of debate and it is a futile exercise.

    All the problems in the world can be fundamentally attributed to human being’s tendencies to see matters in black and white, right and wrong, in group and outgroup and instinctively assuming one is on the side of the angel and the other side is evil and subhuman.

    The protestors and police, America and China…all believe they are fighting for a just cause. This is when might becomes right.

  353. Chinaman says:
    @onebornfree

    I don’t plan to “bug out” at all since I am confident that these riots will burn out soon.

    All the government needs to do is to impose a curfew and or declare a state of emergency in which no one can wear masks or hide their identity.

    If you looked at all the vile and irresponsible comments on Unz ( including mine sometimes), we can agree that anonymity brings out the worse of all of us. It is easy to lose your humanity if we don’t have to take responsibility for our actions. These riots will stop tomorrow if it becomes illegal for someone to hide their face in public and they can get arrested just for that.

    My cousin is one of the “violent” protestor on the frontlines, he is an unemployed heavy metal vocalist and he doesn’t care about the politics or the extradition bill. It is in his blood to be hate authority and to hate the government and the police. This protest have been fun for him and his anti-social friends.

    He is hiding in Taiwan now, probably from assaulting cops or something. He have got baton marks on his arm, Explain why we need an extradition bill. Haha. I told him not to come back.

    People who don’t know what is going on should just shut up…

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Seraphim
  354. Chinaman says:

    This was never about the extradition bill. Anyone who still think that is a fucking idiot.

    It is as inane as people who believe “ we need to invade Iraq because they have WMD. “

    This was not supposed to be about the police but this is the focal point now. No one expected this.

    The whole thing have already went off script which is why you already see fictions and splits In the protestors camp.

    Someone’s got to do it.

    I will make the bold prediction that the riots and protest will completely end by Oct 1st b4 national day.

    HK will be in complete lockdown.

    • Replies: @Smith
  355. Smith says:
    @Ber

    Yes they do, like the Yellow Vest, it’s about giving Hong Kong autonomy, and that means cancellation entirely of the extradition bill.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  356. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    >protest about extradition bill
    >it’s not about the extradition bill
    Chicom shill is getting restless.

    What is next? Yellow Vest does not know what they want, are all idiots and should go home and enjoy higher gas prices and a falling welfare state?

    Nothing is going here, citizen, disperse and go home!

  357. Smith says:
    @denk

    Yeah, like last time with any riot/protest in UK/US where cars are burned, trash bins were overturned and shops were vandalized, yet the police did not even fire a shot.

    Who are you trying to fool?

    • Replies: @denk
  358. Smith says:

    The irony is palpable.

    *protest in any western country*
    Chicom yid: look, my children, look at how chaotic and evil the West is for oppressing their own minorities, so racist! Look at how great and peaceful China is!
    *protest in Hong Kong*
    Chicom yid: Oh my god shut it down! CIA US state dept rich people useful idiots! hope our cops beat them, I hope tanks roll over them, I hope their children children speak OUR language.

    Have a taste of your own medicine, chicom!

    • Replies: @denk
  359. Smith says:
    @onebornfree

    Well, Chicomman and Peking Duck definitely sound like paid CCP posters trying to damage control, considering their tones and their visible hatred of cantonese.

    • Replies: @denk
  360. Erebus says:
    @Chinaman

    People who don’t know what is going on should just shut up…

    They may or may not know what’s going on, but a few are here to derail rational, fact-based discussion and bog it down with inanities.

    Insofar as you’re arguing with them, they’ve succeeded.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Chinaman
  361. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    Fact-based rational discussion like how HK is a CIA coup despite this is a Beijing talking point with no proof or whatsoever, while the Yellow Vest is totally different despite both having the same characteristics?

    I would LOVE to have the facts here.

  362. Seraphim says:
    @Chinaman

    I was stranded for four days in Hong Kong en route to Shanghai because of the typhoon Lekima and then by the closure of HK airport. What I noticed was that generally people seemed annoyed by the circus (not to say anything about the travelers cut short in their businesses).

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Chinaman
  363. Rollmop says:
    @Smith

    Again, don’t comment if you don’t understand.

    The bill was an amendment to am existing law. That law has been operative since before the handover of HK to China in 1997. We can already send people to Russia or Zimbabwe under that law. Guess what? HK judges practically never send anyone back to those countries.

    It is outright bullshit to pretend this law is about bundling off China critics to labour camps. Cut it out. Read the law.

  364. Erebus says:

    Recently, the 2015 propaganda film Winter on Fire: Ukraine’s Fight for Freedom about Maidan was screened at half a dozen locations around Hong Kong. It was an obvious attempt to move the protests to a new, more violent level. The same script, same financiers, producers and directors, a few new actors and a new locale is playing out in HK. The upcoming movie’s working title is doubtless Summer on Fire: Hong Kong’s Fight for Freedom. It should be out next year, unless the protests collapse.

    At the end of the day, both Maidan and HK are all about leveraging legitimate local grievances into a regime change operation. In both cases, the underlying grievance revolves around being ruled by obscenely wealthy local oligarchs who manipulate the civil, social and political structures to their benefit at the expense of the people. The job of the regime changers is to divert the people’s anger away from its source, the oligarchs, and towards the govt.

    The Chinese watched the Russians play out the clock on Maidan, and they’ve taken a page from the Russian playbook. HK’s oligarchs will be allowed to fall into irrelevance, if not poverty, and HK with them.

    Countries and Empires fail when their elites fail. Both Ukraine’s and HK’s have failed.

    Like most Ukrainians, most HK’ers can’t move, so the situation will be allowed to freeze and slowly deteriorate. HK, of course, has much more to lose than the Ukraine, but it’s been on the way to losing it for the last decade. Just as it was for Moscow, the best strategy for the big boys in Beijing is to wait a decade or two until they come ’round cap-in-hand and ask for a hand in getting out of the hole they fell into.

    • Replies: @Ber
  365. Smith says:
    @Seraphim

    Ah, just like how people were annoyed by the Yellow Vest for blocking traffics in various french cities?

    Bear with it, man, the people’s well-beings are more important than your business.

    @Rollmop

    Again, the amendment is about allowing special extradition to China, Taiwan and Macau, which is not like before. People PROTEST that, because they don’t want to be shipped to China where Hong Konger political dissidents are ill-treated or silenced.

    The fact extradition to other countries exist in Hong Kong does NOT mean Hong Kongers want to be extradited to China for kangaroo justice (which HK government is in cahoot with because China practically owns and controls Hong Kong, unlike Russia, US, UK or even Zimbabwe).

    I already read the laws, I already understand the laws, the only ones here seem to not understand is you.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Rollmop
  366. Smith says:

    Hey bro, you miss out the possible screening of ANOTHER film, Winter on Fire: Yellow Vest’s fight for Freedom, unless the protests collapse.

    At the end of the day, both Maidan and Yellow Vest are all about leveraging legitimate local grievances into a regime change operation. In both cases, the underlying grievance revolves around being ruled by obscenely wealthy local oligarchs who manipulate the civil, social and political structures to their benefit at the expense of the people. The job of the regime changers is to divert the people’s anger away from its source, the oligarchs, and towards the govt.

    The French watched the Russians play out the clock on Maidan, and they’ve taken a page from the Russian playbook. France’s oligarchs will be allowed to fall into irrelevance, if not poverty, and France with them.

    Countries and Empires fail when their elites fail. Both Ukraine’s and France’s have failed.

    Like most Ukrainians, most Yellow Vests can’t move, so the situation will be allowed to freeze and slowly deteriorate. Yellow Vest, of course, has much more to lose than the Ukraine, but it’s been on the way to losing it for the last decade. Just as it was for Moscow, the best strategy for the big boys in Paris is to wait a decade or two until they come ’round cap-in-hand and ask for a hand in getting out of the hole they fell into.

    Does this mean Yellow Vest is CIA-backed as well? Or is it FSB-backed?

    • Replies: @Erebus
  367. Seraphim says:
    @Smith

    You seem not to understand that HK is part of China. The people of HK were annoyed by the antics of the umbrella bearers.

  368. Rollmop says:
    @Smith

    Bulldust. You understand nothing about the law. It is even more restrictive for China than for every other country on the planet. And Hong Kong is texhixslly part of China.

    It would have been harder to send someone back to China from HK than to send them to Zimbabwe.

  369. Chinaman says:
    @Erebus

    Sorry, I can’t resist to feed a troll like Smith or onebornfree once in awhile. He is more obedient and endearing than Pavlov’s dogs.

  370. Smith says:

    One country, TWO SYSTEMS. That agreement between HK and China is ending on 2047, not now. And no, most people of HK are annoyed by the HK cops who water cannon and beat them.

    @Rollmop:

    Bullshit, the very simple fact that China CAN legally extradite people from Hong Kong is what HKer have issues with. Not how hard it is, not how restrictive it is.

    And you can repeat Hong Kong is a part of China over and over again, if HKer don’t want to be extradited to China, that means they DON’T want to be extradited to China.

    You and me both understand the laws, you are ignoring facts in order to smear the protesters.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Rollmop
  371. Chinaman says:
    @Seraphim

    Public opinion have turned long ago. The problem is that the black shirt are the loudest and get the most media attention. I am too lazy and lethargic except to type and vent here. It really hasn’t affected me, the expats or the rich, I think the violence and the barbarism last week have breached the bottom line for most people, including the demagogues who already feel the mood is shifting and distancing themselves from the violence. It always end this way. People wake up from the madness and ask why are they destroying their own homes.

  372. Chinaman says:
    @Smith

    One country, TWO SYSTEMS. That agreement between HK and China is ending on 2047, not now. And no, most people of HK are annoyed by the HK cops who water cannon and beat them.

    Oh, please…most people of HK will be annoyed by your pontification when you can’t even get your facts straight. It is a joint DECLARATION between HK and Britain, dumbass, not an agreement between HK and China.

    Please come and stand with HK so we can all beat the fucking Vietcong out of you, we are quite good at that.

    • Replies: @Smith
  373. Rollmop says:
    @Smith

    Guess what, pal? Someone needs to deal with reality and it isn’t me.

    This stuff ends one way or the other.

    But it ends with China victorious.

    Like one of your fabulously ugly Democrat cows once said:

    “Deal with reality. Or reality will deal with you.”

  374. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    Oh so, the Chicom admits it’s NOT going to honor the agreement then?

    And I don’t remember Hong Konger beating any Vietcong, if anything, the Vietcong gives you chicom a bloody nose in 1979.
    @ Rollmop

    You aren’t talking reality, you are talking about might makes right, I agree with that but at least we aren’t pretending to be debating laws anymore.

  375. Smith says:

    Oh wow, look at those CIAnigger kids in Hong Kong school.

    Rollmop might be careful with his might makes right approach else he makes a PR crisis with Big Brother. And no, I’m not liberal nor a democrat, I’m a nationalist, and I support the cantonese cause.

    • Replies: @denk
  376. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    Does this mean Yellow Vest is CIA-backed as well?

    It ain’t so simple.

    I’ve heard through the usual channels that the Yellow Vests are backed by the Vatican, who of course is but a tool of one of the Bulgarian intelligence networks, though nobody seems to know which one.

    I should note that I see unmistakeable signs of The Armenian’s, and possibly The Turk’s hand in there as well. As they never work together, or with the Bulgarians, it’s possible that the Pope is playing his own game.

    Wheels within wheels, “Smith”. Wheels within wheels…

    • Replies: @Smith
  377. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    If only we focus on what they are protesting about and fighting for, instead of looking up on which hands of the devil backing them eh?

    • Replies: @Erebus
  378. onebornfree says: • Website

    Ben Franklin once famously said : “..those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    I think I can improve on that quote by a US founding father :

    “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little [imagined] temporary safety via their government will lose ALL liberty , and will achieve NO safety. ”

    Regards, onebornfree

  379. denk says:
    @Smith

    ‘smith’..

    *protest in any western country*
    Chicom yid: look, my children, look at how chaotic and evil the West is for oppressing their own minorities, so racist!

    Nancy Pelosi ,
    ‘ Hong Kong demonstrations were “a beautiful sight to behold”

    Confucius…

    ‘Its rude not to return a compliment’

    Chinese spokeswoman Hua Chunying…
    ‘I wish for many such ‘beautiful sight’ in the USA’

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Seraphim
  380. denk says:
    @Smith

    Dunno which case you’r referring to,
    anyway, those are kindergarten stuff compared to the HK violence…

    murikkanos should try storming the congress, police stations, shut down the airport, paralysis the subway, assault police in fukus, I doubt they’d live to tell their tale here

  381. denk says:
    @Smith

    I come here to get away from the MSM B.S.

    YOur pal onebornfreak come here to saturate bomb us with all those MSM bile, what a pervert !

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @denk
  382. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    If only we focus on what they are protesting about and fighting for…

    It’s become easy to tell when what may have started as a real protest about real grievances has been hijacked and morphs into something else…

    – If/When the protestors original grievance(s) are answered, and the protestors escalate their demands to un-addressable levels such as would cause the govt having to either break their own laws or to resign/abdicate.
    – If/When the govt refuses to, or can’t answer the new set of demands, we see the emergence of new “recruits” who incite and/or initiate violence and destruction, usually without articulating any coherent demands at all.
    – If/When that fails to provoke the govt into violent pacification, we see the emergence of the professionals who turn the violence deadly for the purpose of getting the govt to act. Hong Kong ain’t there yet, but it certainly won’t surprise me if it winds up there.

    Concurrent to the protest’s move into its un-addressable demands stage, the West’s Mighty Wurlitzer fires up, flooding everybody’s worldview with vague platitudes about “freedom” & “self-determination”, “peaceful” protestors and ridiculously exaggerated estimates of the number of participants as well as of the support they may enjoy in the general population. All of this is accompanied by exactly zero depth of coverage and analysis into the original grievances or how the govt addressed them.
    One need only to notice the difference in the coverage between HK and the Yellow Vests to know which is the real protest.

    We’ve seen similar programs unfold in Syria, Libya, Ukraine, and now Hong Kong. This has been recognized and explicated in numerous geo-political strategy papers by both the perpetrating and some of the defending countries. In fact, a couple of years ago the Russian Foreign Ministry ran a well attended clinic for likely-to-be-targeted govts on how to recognize and defend against this menace.

    Beijing apparently learned their lessons, but if the protests move from violence to deadly violence we’ll see one of two scenarios, or both…
    – The closure and banning of all foreign “NGOs”, especially the political just as Russia did, and/or
    – Chinese SF snipers taking out the most egregiously violent of the protestors, cowing the rest.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Chinaman
  383. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    “like the Yellow Vest, it’s about giving Hong Kong autonomy…’
    — What “autonomy” the Yellow Vests are fighting for?
    If there were a French scoundrel who murdered his pregnant (pregnant!) girlfriend, the French would march en masse to punish the scoundrel. The Hong-Kongers, on the other hand, have been marching to protect the murderer. Marching under the Union Jack and American Star-Spangled Banner. Don’t’ the US evangelicals like the marching!

    • Replies: @Smith
  384. d dan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Chinese rule of law meant rule by laws…” – I am not a lawyer, but my superficial understanding of some cases in Chinese history indicates that there were at least some emphasis on “rule of laws” too.

    “Now that the US seems to have calmed down enough to have given up in renditions and torture so that even the President would not have much chance of having someone arbitrarily locked up to put pressure on another country” – I think you are way too optimistic in this regard. Besides the Guantanamo Bay that the other poster mentioned, I consider the detainment of Huawei CFO very arbitrary. And you likely are unaware of the many cases of wrongful prosecution, dismissal, discrimination, etc of American Chinese that have happened in the last few years in US?

    “Sweden is not powerful enough – or as harsh in its punishments – as China. ” – you keep on bemoaning that Chinese government is too powerful for your comfort, but you should know that a government is powerful only if it has the support of its people, right? Currently, there is no better way for rallying support for Chinese government than the constant overt and covert interference, criticism and pressure on China through Hong Kong protests, through Taiwan, through containment, through trade war, through tech war (Huawei, etc), through cultural war (e.g. Kiron Skinner’s “clash of civilization”)… Yes, western politicians, media and many Internet posters are doing their best to helping Chinese government to become very powerful.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  385. onebornfree says: • Website

    SOCIAL CREDIT SYSTEM: FACIAL RECOGNITION CAMERAS MONITOR CHINESE STUDENTS’ BEHAVIOR IN CLASS

    “Monitors how often students look up, whether they’re listening or not.

    A university in China has installed facial recognition cameras in classrooms that monitor students’ behavior such as nodding off or playing with their cellphones.

    China Pharmaceutical University in Nanjing, East China’s Jiangsu Province, is piloting the system in two classrooms and eventually plans to install it in every classroom.

    “The system can access every student’s personal information and monitor their behavior in class such as nodding off and playing with their mobile phones,” reports Global Times.

    The cameras can also record truancy, whether students are listening or not, how often they look up and down, and whether they leave early.

    Students complain the system is an invasion of their privacy, but school officials insist the cameras are necessary to encourage discipline…..”:

    https://www.sgtreport.com/2019/09/social-credit-system-facial-recognition-cameras-monitor-chinese-students-behavior-in-class/

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  386. Ber says:
    @Erebus

    “…the underlying grievance revolves around being ruled by obscenely wealthy local oligarchs who manipulate the civil, social and political structures to their benefit…”

    It would seem to look that way. This would mean that most of the lawmakers in HK are in the pockets of the local oligarchs.

    No wonder there are 37,000 NGOs (mainly foreign funded) allowed to operate in HK. i.e. One NGO serving around 200 citizens – not even government representatives can match that kind of service.

    If there are, say 3 personnel per NGO, it would mean a staggering 100,000 plus personnel on the paychecks of the pipe piper who can call for their support for whatever agenda the piper deems fit. So there is no need for leadership at the local level.

    • Agree: Erebus, annamaria
    • Replies: @Smith
  387. Seraphim says:
    @denk

    Americans have fits when they hear about “the fundamental Chicano nationalist goal of reclaiming Aztlán” as “the rightful homeland of the Chicanos”! The ‘right of secession’ is applicable to everybody except the Americans.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @denk
  388. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    Yeah, all of these apply to the Yellow Vest as well.

    1. Yellow Vest asked for lower gas right, that’s their main protest at first, and they got it, similar to how the extradition bill got “suspended”.

    2. Yellow started out very violently with many vandalizing act, beating up cops and destroying of public properties.

    3. Yellow mellows out as the gov adopts the wait and freeze tactics.

    All of these are the same for HK protests, the only big difference is some protesters waving US flags, but that can be explained away by the demanding of the 2nd amendment, not US intervention.

    This is not the same as what happens in the Arab spring and Venezuela which had defection from the military.

  389. Smith says:
    @annamaria

    The Yellow Vest marches for autonomy from NATO/EU and the abolition of Macron government.

    And nobody in Hong Kong is marching for that murderer, the law doesn’t EXIST just to jail that murder. Keep engaging in that fake news.

    @denk

    Yeah, man, I kinda wish there’s such a big protest in the US demanding freedom from the shitty US government or local government such as California or New York. Texas secession here we come.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  390. Smith says:
    @Seraphim

    Wut? So you are saying Texas recession is not a popular movement? ONLY the feds are against it.

    Aztlan is not even a secession, it’s colonization and invasion since it’s backed by the foreign mexicans.

  391. Erebus says:
    @d dan

    Yes, western politicians, media and many Internet posters are doing their best to helping Chinese government to become very powerful.

    Actually, they quite likely know not what they do, but that’s a valid point. The Chinese govt’s domestic position has been helped immeasurably by the West’s antics.

    However, I’d assume that the West’s antics are primarily intended to hurt the Chinese govt internationally and with the Western public. They’ve surely recognized by now that it’s untouchable domestically. Those countries that attended the Russian clinic on Hybrid War may understand what’s going on, but I’m not sure how well others do, much less their publics.

  392. Seraphim says:
    @onebornfree

    Facial recognition technology is an American invention, ahem. They worked hard to develop it.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @onebornfree
  393. Chinaman says:
    @Erebus

    I agree. This is why the government is not backing off. It’s a catch 22 situation. Appeasement in this case will only lead to more unrealistic demands such as independence. It is a downward spiral that ultimately descend into anarchy.

    The focal point of the protest have already shifted to police brutality rather than the bill or even democracy. The absurdity of the whole situation is that the real and legitimate greivances, which are actually all economic in nature and which the government can actually address , such as, land policies and youth unemployment are not even on the agenda. the simplest thing for the government can do is to provide housing subsidies like section 8 In the US for low income families and young. This would almost immediately make 80% of the people happy. Hker are a practical people.

    The British have left behind an entrenched bureaucracy which is still stuck in the colonial imperialist mindset which have never care much for the local populace. It is functioning like a zombie after its British master left. This government structure and the one country 2 system have evolved to serve the oligarch’s interest and is actually at the core of the problem. Contrary to what people believe, a Chinese takeover of HK world actually break this intransigence and improve the wealth distribution. How? Giving a deadline for the real estate oligarchs to developed their land and upon that deadline, their land lease will be voided. 70% of the land in HK is undeveloped and they did not to so to keep prices high. A weak government and even a democratic one can never summon or gather the political will to do this….but an authoritarian state like China can.

    It is predictable that these protestors don’t understand economics and are actually fighting against the solution.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  394. Erebus says:

    Question for d dan, denk, Chinaman and anyone else who can contribute…

    What do you make of reports that mainlanders have been spotted amongst the protestors in fairly large numbers? I find this quite puzzling.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @denk
  395. Chinaman says:
    @onebornfree

    What is this ? Are you trying to inform the commenters on the situation in HK via MSM ?

    Trying to brainwash A HKer, a bunch of Chinese and some informed white people?

    You will have better luck somewhere else.

  396. Chinaman says:
    @Erebus

    Nah…I saw a crowd just yesterday chanting their slogans. You can pick up the accent immediately.

    It would be very easy to pick out a group of mainlander even if they didn’t speak. Their demeanour and their appearance are quite distinct from the locals. Well, even if they masked and I’m black, I guess you can still spot the diamond watch and balenciaga sneakers or Gucci loafers which HKer can’t afford. Haha

    If they did open their mouth, we will hear them from afar…There would have been fights immediately if they mingled with the rioters. That’s probably what happened at the airport.

  397. denk says:
    @denk

    annamaria

    google makes it so easy for morons like
    onebornfreak, just enter uIghur, Tibet,
    Hong Kong, credit system…..you get pages after page of unverified charge sheet, which morons like the freak present as ‘proof’.
    LOL,

    btw, one of his charge sheet has already been debunked in MOA.

  398. denk says:
    @annamaria

    So the Texans want out eh ….
    aint holding my breath !

    There aint no more fire left in murikkano’s belly, all stuffed with junk food.

    More to the point,
    They wont succeed cuz there aint no
    gawd damned murikkano embassy in
    Washington DC.

    hehehhe

  399. Smith says:
    @Ber

    Aksually, MOST lawmakers follow instructions from Beijing. For example, Carrier Lam:
    https://www.quora.com/Is-Carrie-Lam-not-allowed-to-resign-by-instruction-from-PRC

    The local oligarchs are also pro-Beijing since Beijing has more money than Hong Kong.
    Reposting:
    2. Rich people make an U-Turn AND SUPPORT the bill:
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333397839_Digital_Representation_in_an_Electoral_Campaign_Influenced_by_Mainland_China_The_2017_Hong_Kong_Chief_Executive_Election
    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3012230/fugitive-tycoon-joseph-lau-withdraws-legal-challenge

    It is funnier when pro-Beijing sources blame the oligarchs for the protest since the oligarchs are now pro-extradition bill (they have enough money and power to go out of Hong Kong if they want, the bill matters jack shit to them).

    • Replies: @Ber
  400. Smith says:
    @Seraphim

    So China is once again stealing American technology to use on its own people!

    Wow, and China is the enemy of the US? Say it ain’t so!

  401. denk says:
    @Seraphim

    How come we never heard about
    Puerto Rico independent movement these days ?

    Cuz Puerto Rico freedom fighters ‘terrarists’ are either dead
    or in jail !

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2003/05/01/cuba-and-puerto-rico/

  402. denk says:
    @Erebus

    Dont have much info on that score.

    Too many distractions, too little time 🙁

  403. Smith says:

    It turns out that it’s not an echo chamber and mainlanders also have beef with Beijing, just like the various protests going inside mainland China.

    But I’m pretty sure all is fine in the eastern front, and it’s just CIA agents buzzing off.

  404. Erebus says:
    @Chinaman

    Agree wholeheartedly with all points, but especially with:

    This government structure and the one country 2 system have evolved to serve the oligarch’s interest and is actually at the core of the problem.

    HK’s elites, political and financial/economic let the people of HK down.

    3 decades ago, HK was making a LOT of money representing the Pearl River Delta to the world. That gravy train of easy money ground to a halt approx a decade ago as China went direct, and today HK finds itself with its nose pressed against the glass, watching an ascendant Shenzhen from a few hundred meters away.

    Much of the world recognized what China would become. Ironically, HK didn’t. Neither HK’s leadership, nor its people redefined themselves for a new role.

    Anyhow, when students & graduates of 1st class universities, carrying a daunting debt load desperately want opportunity, but find themselves working at a Fortress or Park ‘n Shop, sharing a 40sqM apartment with 3 friends, and with no visible future, there’s bound to be trouble.

    The question is whether HK’s elites understand the problem, and whether they have the political will to fix it. If they don’t, HK will return to its roots. If that happens, 2047 can’t come soon enough.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  405. Smith says:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3025641/hong-kong-leader-carrie-lam-announce-formal-withdrawal

    Good news! Good news! The bill is formally withdrawn! The protesters can at least claim a victory and that Beijing has bent the knees.

    Now we await the fallout/silencing. Good luck to the brave protesters!

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @onebornfree
  406. House niggers in Hong Kong,and Shabbos goys allover the rest of the world!!

    • Replies: @Smith
  407. Ber says:
    @Smith

    Carrie Lam not allowed to resign is another nonsensical propaganda attempt. Carrie Lam had already clarified her firm stance to stay in office.

    With great wealth comes great crimes, so the saying goes. There are bound to be some criminal tycoons in HKG that will fear extradition. Same with other criminals in the world who will also have a vested interest to keep HKG an oligarch crime haven. They too will fear extradition.

  408. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    Great! Now one can murder, rape, rob and defraud in China, Taiwan, and several other Asian countries, then hightail it to HK to enjoy guaranteed immunity.

    There can surely be no greater freedom.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @d dan
    , @Chinaman
  409. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Smith

    I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Even if true, most likely, the Chi-com filth will, at some time in the near future [ 6 months? A year?] , pull a false-flag psyop in HK that will give them the “justified” excuse they need to fully re-absorb HK ahead of 2047, because the mainland economy is going down the shithole right now,so they need to prop themselves up [at least temporarily]. via the direct theft of HK’s resources. And Taiwan will be next in line

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Smith
  410. Smith says:
    @Wael Ahmad

    Who are the field niggers? The chinese?

    I thought they ban rap music in China.

  411. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    Well, duh! I already knew that 🙂 .

    Commie China is a major global government/ New World Order test site – the exact same social credit system [largely based on facial recognition ] is going to be implemented nationwide in the US, in fact, its already started [in case you didn’t know ]:

    Evil tech giants planning China-style “social score” rollout across America; red-flagged people to be denied access to restaurants and public events:

    “…..In 2014, the Communist government implemented what it calls a “social credit system,” which is designed to ‘score’ citizens’ behavior. According to the government, the objective beyond the nationwide system, which is driven in large part by technology and surveillance, is to “allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step.”

    And who are “the discredited?” Anyone who doesn’t conform to China’s authoritarian rule — and rules.

    While the social credit system remains a work in progress, it’s expected that by next year it will have evolved into a “single, nationwide point system for all Chinese citizens, akin to a financial credit score,” Fast Company reports.

    The scores will be used to take punitive — or worse — actions against citizens who don’t pay their debts, who belong to or take part in religious observances like Tibetan Buddhism, who smoke or play loud music while on trains, who fail to sweep the sidewalks in front of businesses or homes, or any number of other behaviors the government has deemed counterproductive to society.

    The website notes that punishments can range from minor to severe, such as banning travel outside………Now for the really bad news: That system is already under development in the United States and, in fact, in many ways it’s already being implemented……:”

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-09-03-tech-giants-planning-china-style-social-score-rollout-across-america.html

    “Regards”onebornfree

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  412. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    You are indeed a skilled hasbarist. The fluidity of your writing styles is quite obvious.
    The funny thing is, you enjoy too much your cleverness and this self-enjoyment betrays you.

    • Replies: @Smith
  413. Smith says:
    @annamaria

    Yeah, yeah, more accusation! Just like the CIA in Hong Kong! It’s always accusation but never proof.

    I have been called many names here for speaking the truthes and my opinions, so much for “alternative views”. Sorry, hon, but this is not a safe space.

    • Replies: @denk
  414. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    Yeah, there is still jail in Hong Kong. Nice try.

    It’s funny Erebus think the extradition is not a legit grievance, UNTIL Hong Konger decide not to extradite to China.

    @ Ber
    Carrie Lam affirms that AFTER the tape has come out, who knew what how Beijing handled her?

    Meanwhile, all the big oligarchs in China (HK included) can already migrate to America without problem, there’s NO reason to assume they have any reason to fear extradition to China at all, and there are cases where China just simply naps a guy in HK and that’s it, no need for any bill.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  415. Smith says:
    @onebornfree

    I mean, the kids in HK already see the boots from China. I’m glad that this protest is mostly youngsters, it means the newest generation already sees how China is gonna treat them, before 2047 even happens.

    Either ways, I don’t think China is going to risk a hot conflict in HK, out for PR reason, they want their BRI scam to still be going on after all.

  416. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    It’s funny Erebus think the extradition is not a legit grievance, UNTIL Hong Konger decide not to extradite to China.

    If Hong Kong extradites to the US and UK, where the hope of a fair trial is almost whimsical (ask Assange & Irving) why would they refuse to extradite to TW, PH, CN, etc?
    – Do you think that murderers such as the HK-er who murdered his pregnant girlfriend in TW, or PH drug gangsters/terrorists/human traffickers, or corrupt Chinese should be immune to prosecution, because they managed to escape to HK?
    – Is that what the HK protestors think is synonymous with “freedom”?
    – Is immunity for international criminals what they’re fighting for?

    Frankly, I doubt it, but if “extradition is a legit grievance” like it seems to be in your alleged brain, HK is heading straight back to what it was. Or worse.

  417. onebornfree says: • Website

    China Unloads Troops & Cargo Into Hong Kong From Giant Ship Amidst Rumors of Crackdown:

    “A huge Chinese cargo ship has unloaded troops and vehicles into Hong Kong amidst rumors of a military crackdown on protesters.

    “The ship in question, Chang Da Long, is a 140.5m-long vehicle carrier,” reports Shephard Media. “It arrived at Stonecutters Island at 17:36 on 28 August and, after unloading its cargo, departed by 23:19. In total, the 19,864t vessel was berthed at the PLA naval base for 5.5h.”

    Authorities claim that the ship is part of the routine annual rotation of PLA troops and equipment PLA Hong Kong Garrison. However, while road convoys are a regular sight, “the presence of a conscripted civilian cargo vessel has never been observed before,” according to the report…”

    “……Chinese state media news channel CCTV broadcast images of hundreds of troops disembarking the vessel as well as Dongfeng EQ2050 4×4 tactical vehicles driving along the naval base quay.

    “Should President Xi Jinping decide enough is enough and that the communist party’s military must take over from Hong Kong’s beleaguered police, such a hidden force could be mobilised to strike hard and decisively,” according to the report.

    Experts suggest that if Beijing is to impose a brutal crackdown, it will occur before October 1st, which is the 70th anniversary of the founding of Communist China.”:

    https://www.newswars.com/china-unloads-troops-cargo-into-hong-kong-from-giant-ship-amidst-rumors-of-crackdown/

    Regards,onebornfree

  418. denk says:
    @Smith

    Yeah, yeah, more accusation! Just like the CIA in Hong Kong! It’s always accusation but never proof.

    NED aka CIA sponsorship of HK opposition has been an open secret.
    YOu must be the only one who miss it.

    • Replies: @Smith
  419. d dan says:
    @Erebus

    “Great! Now one can murder, rape, rob and defraud in China, Taiwan, and several other Asian countries, then hightail it to HK to enjoy guaranteed immunity.”

    Very sad day indeed for Hong Kong and the world. Carrie Lam is too weak for the post.

  420. denk says:

    To see how stupid onebornfreak is,

    Exhibit A

    onebornfreak
    ‘In western China, there’s a growing network of what journalists, former inmates, and the U.S. government are calling “concentration camps”

    Wow,
    The presstitudes, alleged former inmates and uncle
    scam….the three amigoes that’s responsible for
    the top 100 hoax of the century. !

    ROFLMAO !

  421. Chinaman says:
    @Erebus

    The joke is that Hker should celebrate the withdrawal of the bill by murdering Joshua Wong, Jimmy Lai and all the democrats in Taiwan ( given how often they travel there) and coming back to HK like heros with impunity

    Given how hard they thought for it, these freedom fighters should be the first beneficiaries of the bill’s withdrawal. Everyone is happy.

    • Replies: @Smith
  422. Chinaman says:
    @Erebus

    Yes, it is sad and the sense of hopelessness and desperation is what drove a lot of these kids on the street. HK have bore the full brunt of the labour arbitrage because it shares a border with China. The whole economy have been hollowed out to specialised in finance and tourism.

    I just can’t see how they can save HK by destroy it. How democracy and freedom can save HK from its economic destiny.

    We will find out soon since the Chinese tourists ain’t coming anymore. The knock on effects to the economy will be brutal.

  423. @onebornfree

    Commie China is a major global government/ New World Order test site

    Quite possible. It would be great if there were a global revolution against NWO but Chinks who wave British and US flags while protesting against their own government aren’t part of it. At least the yellow vests wave the French tricolor and not foreign flags. This surely distinguishes the traitors from the patriots for those who think these two movements have much in common.

    • Replies: @Smith
  424. Smith says:
    @denk

    Faulty logic. The fact you can’t expect a fair trial in the US, UK doesn’t mean you can expect a fair trial in TH, PH and China. Doubt me? Assange cannot get political asylum in Beijing.

    – No, and there is jail in Hong Kong, the murderers can be jailed there, but instead you want to extradite them to China jail, what for? Isn’t Hong Kong’s jail a part of China’s jail?
    – Yes, they are, because they are Hong Kongers, and Hong Kong has their own jail and legal system, at least until 2047.
    – No? They are fighting for their own autonomy.

    Yeah, I think you have a problem with strawman and bad argument and the filmsy case of US/UK = bad thus Beijing = GOOD.

    @ denk
    Open secret thus you must have proof of it? Provide it then?

    • Replies: @Erebus
  425. Smith says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Oh please, you realize the Hong Kongers also wave the Hong Kong colonial flags right?

    This is like saying waving the Confederate flags are traitors. You are falling for Beijing’s talking point.

  426. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    I don’t agree with J. Wong, J. Lai and the democrats in Taiwan, but you sound quite mad there, chicomman.

  427. Smith says:

    Also, for ALL information. The Yellow Vest also adapted a modified American flag as their symbolic flag.

    Does this mean Yellow Vests are traitors and are CIA-backed?

    Beijing’s narrative is FALLING, and hard.

    People, keep posting and dismantling Beijing’s talking points, they are so easy to do so since all of their points boil down to:
    – extradition to US/UK = BAD, extradition to China = GOOD, never mind BOTH are bad, proof: Assange COULD not have gotten political asylum in Beijing nor the China embassy in Britain.
    – muh US flags/UK flags = traitors, never mind the Yellow Vests movement who is supported here ALSO brandish (modified) US flag.
    – muh CIA is backing HK protesters, despite NO PROOF OF SUCH CASE. Their smoking gun Jimmy Jai has retired from politics and has no hands in the current protests.

    Then you will get to case like Chicomman, who whines about “violence and barbarism” from the protesters, but instantly advocates for murdering people when the bill’s withdrawn. Shit’s wack, THERE are paid Beijing shills here meant to muddy the discussion who advocates for conformity in one hand and purge in the other.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Seraphim
  428. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    Faulty logic.

    Error. Yours is the faulty logic.

    – Given that US/UK/etc, are no more fair than CN/TW/PH/etc, and…
    – Given that HK has an extradition treaty with US/UK/etc and can and has extradited its citizens to those countries for crimes they committed there, and…
    – Given that some of those countries (eg: Canada) can and have extradited their citizens to CN for crimes committed there (except that Cdn law prohibits extradition if the penalties for the crime in question include execution)
    – There can be no legitimate reason for HK to deny extradition to CN/TW/PH.

    Simply really.

    Had you actually read the proposed law, or at least read about it, you’d know that the categories of crimes that qualified for extradition were closely defined, and every one of those crimes are also crimes under HK law. Ergo, there is simply no legitimate argument one can posit in objection.

    … there is jail in Hong Kong, the murderers can be jailed there…

    No, they can’t.

    HK courts, like courts everywhere (except the US) do not claim jurisdiction outside their borders. Very simply, there are no legal means by which a crime committed in a foreign land can be brought to trial except by treaty.

    Put another way, murder is murder in HK only if it is committed in HK, or in a country with whom it is treaty bound to so recognize it. If it happened in TW, then as far as the HK courts are concerned, no crime was committed. Had he murdered his pregnant girlfriend in the US/UK/CA/etc, HK would be treaty bound to recognize the crime and extradite, but as far as the HK legal system is concerned, TW/CN/PH/etc are free fire zones.

    Do you get it now?

    • Replies: @Smith
  429. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    No, there IS a legitimate reason to deny extradition to China, especially when the way current FOO bill allows extradition to China/Taiwan AS SPECIAL SURRENDER, and the document for Extradition can be admitted WITHOUT FURTHER PROOF, while the document AGAINST it cannot be.

    Most of the bill’s shortcomings can be found here:
    http://www.hklawsoc.org.hk/pub_c/news/submissions/20190605.pdf

    And I can prove without a single doubt that this has nothing to do with the murderer in Taiwan case: the government of Taiwan has repeatedly tried to negotiate with the government of Hong Kong to solve this case, but again, the government of Hong Kong refuses to respond to Taiwanese help, but instead just try to force this FOO bill. So what’s this? It’s Beijing forcing the pro-China HK government to go through the Bill, using the murder as an excuse, never mind that the crime happens in Taiwan, NOT China!

    I have gotten it, and I have always gotten it. It’s you who try to obfuscate the problem with Beijing’s forcing through this bill.

  430. Smith says:

    And to put it to rest:
    https://news.yahoo.com/taiwan-wont-ask-murder-suspect-hk-passes-extradition-050405150.html

    Taiwan has come out and say they will not ask for the murderer in that case, because Taiwan doesn’t want to risk potential extradition to China.

    So yeah, a Hong Konger criminal committed a crime in Taiwan, is now gonna be solved by Beijing I guess because neither sides want this sorry ass excuse as precedent for shipping people to China.

    Law and Order! Law and Order!

  431. Chinaman says:
    @Smith

    It Oh, come on…where is your sense of humour? I said It is a joke that is circulating around HK. I didn’t make it up but I thought it is quite funny and logical, don’t you ?

    That was what started all this and it is always best to give ppl a taste of their own medicine.

    Should we all meet up in Taiwan?

    • Replies: @Smith
  432. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    That’s the second time you say it’s a prank bro! I would have a laugh if it isn’t the goddamn line towed by Beijing shills, and no, I don’t think even J. Wong and his pussy brigade advocates killing the Beijing elites (but I support it!).

    And nah, Taiwan doesn’t need anymore Beijing shill.

  433. Seraphim says:
    @Smith

    It is the flag of Bretagne (Brittany):
    “It is called the Gwenn-ha-du, pronounced [ɡwɛnaˈdyː], which means white and black in Breton. It is also unofficially used in the département of Loire-Atlantique although this now belongs to the Pays de la Loire and not to the région of Brittany, as the territory of Loire-Atlantique is historically part of the province of Brittany. Nantes (Naoned), its préfecture, was once one of the two capital cities of Brittany. The flag was created in 1923 by Morvan Marchal… The nine horizontal stripes represent the traditional dioceses of Brittany into which the duchy was divided historically. The five black stripes represent the French or Gallo speaking dioceses of Dol, Nantes, Rennes, Saint-Malo and Saint-Brieuc; the four white stripes represent the Breton speaking dioceses of Trégor, Léon, Cornouaille and Vannes. The ermine canton recalls the arms of the Duchy of Brittany.
    The flag first came to notice by a wider public at the Exposition Internationale des Arts Décoratifs et Industriels Modernes in Paris in 1925. It was adopted by various cultural and nationalist groups through the 1920s and 1930s. However, its association with nationalist and separatist groups during the Second World War brought suspicions of collaboration on the flag. A revival of interest in the flag took place in the 1960s. Since then, it has mostly lost an association with separatism in the mind of the public and become a widely accepted symbol for all Brittany and Bretons. The older ermine field flag and black cross continue to be rarely used, though, by some individuals and groups.
    In blazons, the flag is Sable, four bars Argent; the canton ermine. Traditionally, coats of arms could be displayed as a rectangular banner, as well as on a shield”.
    Its display by the Yellow Vests means only that their bearers were from Bretagne.

    • Replies: @Smith
  434. Chinaman says:

    Since we have so much disinformation and fake news in the comments. As a HKer, I feel obligated to set the record straight. Below is from a HKer’s perspective and not some BS from MSM:

    Please MUST READ to better understand the Black Shirts。 I have and do believe there are so many underlying issues in this RIOTING。They have been heavily Sedated by DRUGS and easily freely available women。 Poisoned with deep hatred by these syndicates Blinding their senses…….. UNDERCOVER IN HONG KONG: BEHIND BLACKSHIRT LINES

    Why are so many young Hong Kongers so angry? Why do they hate China so much — despite HK under Beijing’s sovereignty being visibly freer and more democratic than it ever was under the British? What makes their frontline rioters so violent, in zombie-like fashion? What really motivates them?

    The following account is circulating in various online platforms. It is purportedly by someone who joined the blackshirts for two months and observed them close-up. The observations seem to tally with other assessments, direct and indirect.

    After two months of undercover contact, I was able to fathom some of the blackshirts’ thinking. It had been hard for me to gain admission into their ranks and get accepted. But after shouting some slogans with them and badmouthing the government, I passed the test and became a blackshirt. Even so, I discovered surprising things after I began to understand the mentality of the rioters.

    {Most of the young blackshirts look moderate, with some sporting innocent smiles. How could such people have mustered the courage to play the dangerous adult sport of street rioting? It turns out that the blackshirts have a great need to be recognized by others. Without the riots, they wouldn’t have made one another’s acquaintance.} They would have spent their adolescence as home-bound boys and girls. Working long hours, their parents neglected family communication. But after joining the rioters’ corps, these homely youngsters received much “peer” recognition.

    Their extreme need for such approval isn’t something the pro-establishment camp understands. Having passed their youth, establishmentarians carefully weigh consequences before taking action.

    As for the kids, they encourage and care for each other. The guys soon become comrades in arms, while guys and girls become lovers. Some young women offer themselves freely, especially to those who fought the police so valiantly on the front lines. Previously girl-shy young men now find themselves embraced, even by well-born, well-to-do women they wouldn’t have dreamed of approaching. 《Fame, sex and peer recognition are powerful spurs to ever more heroic exertions on the battlefield. At the start of each riot, groups of three to five pep-talk one another. Core members can enjoy “drug treatment.” Organizers hand out drugs said to numb the nerves, the better to withstand blows from police batons.》

    I often ask them about their political goals. But apart from shouting slogans about the “five demands” and other issues, they seldom discuss political issues. This applies even to their iconic “double universal suffrage” (chief executive and legislature) and “anti-extradition to China.” At first I thought it strange: blackshirts who are sacrificing themselves to politics being reluctant to discuss politics. Rather, their conversations most often center on racist comments about new immigrants and other Chinese mainlanders. For example, their supposedly uncivilized behavior, and how the newcomers “robbed” local resources.

    Only after nearly two months’ association with the blackshirts did I grasp a second reason for their rioting. They want recognition from the world at large.

    They believe that Hong Kong people be differentiate themselves from Chinese mainlanders. They are especially concerned about how the world views Hong Kongers. They do not wish to be “degraded” by others within a single sovereign framework. It may sound ridiculous, but underlying these kids’ drive for Hong Kong independence is a deep concern about … face. Of course, the fuse must be lit for the explosive to go off. And the extradition bill provided the fuse that was lit by the instigators behind the scenes.

    Sadly, in raising the stakes so high, these face-conscious youngsters were lethally abetted by the rise of social-media platforms. On Facebook is so much distortion and incitement to hatred against the Chinese people, as well as endless disinformation. Well-known anti-China writers unconscionably spread their black propaganda. This generation of young Hong Kongers has been hard-brainwashed to become Nazis. Such notions as compassion and diversity are swept aside. Their hearts are full of hatred, the kind that breaches the bottom lines of human nature. If these brainwashed youngsters had the power to wage war against the Chinese mainland, they would kill unblinkingly, like the Japanese aggressors of old.

    I came across another “coincidence” about the blackshirt rioters. Many of their frontline warriors were surnamed Nguyen. It’s well known that there are hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese and their descendants in Hong Kong. [Formerly from anti-communist South Vietnam, they had come to Hong Kong as refugees in the late 1970s. Nguyen is a common Vietnamese surname]. As it happened, the first to clamor for “Hong Kong independence” had come from their ranks. They indeed were not Chinese. Together with other They came to regard themselves as Hong Kongers (Hong Kongese) and not Hong Kong Chinese.

    It dawned on me that the biggest spark for war is not political disputes but racial or ethnic hatred. Hitler incited the Germans to hate the Jews, then rose to power in Germany and waged war against Europe. The Japanese labeled the Chinese the “Sick Man of East Asia” to launch aggression against China. Trump incited racial hatred and successfully became president of the United States. Conflicts too have been fueled in Europe, the Middle East and Africa by the incitement of ethnic animosities. Seizing on this point, anti-China forces in Hong Kong have incessantly demonized and incited hatred towards the Chinese among local youth for their own political ends.

    My hearts sinks further with every paragraph I write. Political disputes can be resolved through the search for common ground. But ethnic hatred is hard to eradicate, as it’s like poison seeping into the brain. Only when the disease is identified can proper medicine be prescribed. I have glimpsed the affliction, but have no idea what the right medicine is. I hope we can work together to find a cure for the hatred infecting our young people, before it is too late.

  435. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    Most of protesters are peaceful, with only the violent ones being possibly agent provocateurs or too passionate.

    And nobody hate the chinese except the Beijing government.

    The idea of this persecution complex where Hong Konger hate chinese is nonsensical, they just hate their city being invaded by mainlanders and their autonomy being slowly chipped away (which are TRUE FACTS).

    And still blaming the dastardly vietnamese, are we?

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  436. Smith says:
    @Seraphim

    Consider myself corrected. I admit I didn’t know this.

  437. onebornfree says: • Website

    “The verdict is in: Hong Kong chief executive Carrie Lam’s attempt to pacify furious pro-democracy protesters by fully withdrawing the extradition bill that inspired the at-times-violent protests hasn’t worked. Protesters took to the streets Wednesday night (local time) shortly after Lam withdrew the bill, and more rallies are scheduled for this weekend, including another sit-in at Hong Kong International Airport, which – if the recent past is any guide – will likely turn violent.

    An editorial in the Communist Party-controlled China Daily (via Reuters) warned that protesters have “no excuse” to continue the violent rallies after the “olive branch” from Beijing. And adding to the confusion surrounding the situation, the home of media tycoon Jimmy Lai was attacked early Thursday by two masked men who hurled firebombs before speeding off on a motorbike…….”

    “…..Protesters have insisted that the government must meet all five of their demands. The four others are: retraction of the word “riot” to describe protests, release of all 1,100+ demonstrators who have been arrested, an independent inquiry into perceived police brutality and the right for Hong Kong people to choose their own leaders….”:

    Masked Men Firebomb Home Of Hong Kong Media Tycoon:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-09-05/masked-men-firebomb-home-hong-kong-media-tycoon

    Regards, onebornfree

  438. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    Man, this wall of text is hilarious when I read it carefully.

    Top text: How dare the young Hong Konger rally up together, both boys and girls, how dare they unite to fight against an invaders that want to replace their culture and ethnicity (the mainlanders), that’s racist, that’s ethnic hatred, that’s so bad dude. Muh Hitler, muh japs, muh Trump….

    Bottom text: Actually, look at these south Vietnamese though, they are the ones causing problems, he he he.

    Chicomman, I wouldn’t wish to have you as an ally if SHTF, you would be the first one crying about how pitiable and sympathetic the enemies are while criticizing your own force.

    When the fuck will you book a flight to America and leave China and Hong Kong the fuck alone?

  439. @Chinaman

    And one of the two most ardent supporters of the Hong Kong black shirts on UR, a Mr. Smith, claims to be a Vietnamese. Coincidence? If a clampdown happens, let’s see if these Viet troublemakers and ringleaders will be singled out for the harshest treatment. The authorities have had sufficient time to gather intelligence on any such fake Hong Kongers descended from former refugees and asylum seekers ungrateful for having been granted sanctuary in the city and who would now drag others down with themselves. Maybe they will be made to pay for this and not get away lightly. We’ll see soon enough, although the western MSM will put its own anti-PR China spin whatever happens.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Chinaman
  440. onebornfree says: • Website

    The Chinese economy, [aka”the Chinese Miracle”] is currently in free-fall, and may well fully collapse in the near future. [i.e. 1 to 10years].

    This might well be the primary reason why it is now “grasping at straws”[ such as the complete takeover of the the Hong Kong economy], well before the agreed on 2047 takeover date, in order to try to keep the Chi-Coms totalitarian dictatorial power structure afloat for a little longer, and to try to stave off the inevitable complete collapse of the Chinese economy, which must/will happen if China continues on its present [hard-core Communist], anti-free market, anti- human agenda of total control of its population under the “guidance”of the mad/idiot communist and murderous dictator Xi and his sycophantic enablers.

    The only way to reverse this coming complete collapse of the Chinese economy is for the Chinese government to fully revert to [at the very least!] , the slightly more free-market economic policies of Deng Xiaoping : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xioping .

    It was these these, [slightly more free-market] economic policies that directly led to what is now called “the Chinese miracle”], simply because more freedom for individuals always results in a wealthier society as a whole .

    The “Chinese miracle” directly instigated via the economic reforms and policies of Deng Xiaoping are a perfect demonstration of this principle [ i.e. more economic and personal freedom brings about a wealthier society] .

    But idiots and economic illiterates like Xi are incapable of understanding that [or they just don’t care,as long as they can continue to “legally” loot the general population and remain rich by so doing].

    Since the demise of Xiaoping, China has [idiotically]reverted to the exact same economic policies that he had previously largely eliminated; idiotic [i.e hard-core communist]policies which had, prior to Xiaoping, previously mired China in economic poverty and stagnation for many years.

    Chinese Economy-Living on Borrowed Time!

    The return [under Xi] of anti-freedom, hard-core communist, pre-Xiaoping economic policies means that China is currently living on borrowed time and must collapse at some point in time, and probably quite soon.

    Fact:The more that the power mad commies at the top react to this ongoing collapse via even more top-down, centralized control measures, [i.e. “doubling down”] the faster, and the worse that economic collapse will be.

    Since power-mad megalomaniacs like Xi and his ilk are incapable of learning either through education, history, or via direct experience, I expect the collapse of the “Chinese miracle” to continue unabated, and for it to actually accelerate, as the mainland Chinese communist economic illiterates running the show literally double down on their highly destructive policies of even less economic freedom and even more control of the Chinese population.

    Many people in Hong Kong probably already know and understand at least part of this [above] ; if not, at the very least, many seem to intuitively understand that a Chinese takeover of Hong Kong ensures far less freedom for everyone living there.

    That [i.e. less freedom for everyone in Hong Kong], is ultimately what this is all about, as far as I can see.

    The Stefan Molyneux video below explains in more detail exactly why totalitarian, top down economic planning will always fail to bring about a higher standard of living for the “average Joe” , and why such systems always collapse, to the direct detriment of “the average Joe”, whether that “Joe” is Chinese, Russian, German, British, French, American,Vietnamese, or whatever :

    “Problems In China”:

    Regards, onebornfree

  441. d dan says:
    @Commentator Mike

    It is quite obvious that “Smith” is not a typical reader in the west. Consider the followings:

    1. The speed that he replies to others.
    2. The amounts of info (fake or otherwise) he can garner.
    3. The enthusiasm he has shown in this topic.

    Yes, Internet is full of trash, and it is not difficult to notice them.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  442. denk says:
    @Smith

    Oh wow, look at those CIAnigger kids in Hong Kong school.

    YOu aint that daft ?

    These are the classic ‘swarming adolecents‘ exploited and used by MI6/CIA in various color rev since that TAM destabilization.

    Guess what did they learn in class rooms about their own country?

    A sample from text book vetted [sic] by the occupy central ring leaders….

    *China is a dictatorship that threatens world peace..[sic].

    China military expenditure is rising sharply , its lack of transparency pose a threat to world peace. [sic]

    China has border disputes with all of its neighbors, this might lead to war one day [sic]

    blah blah blah…

    OMFG,
    its a virtual copy and paste job from the fukus bullhorn…!
    so This is how they brainwashed three gen of HK kids.

    is it any wonder they have become the vanguard of these protests ?

    • Replies: @Smith
  443. Smith says:
    @denk

    Yeah man, these kids are brainwashed?

    Me, I ain’t brainwashed, I know everything, after all, I trust China’s MSM 100% and everything else is literally CIA.

    And the border disputes things are literally true, and neither MSM of either sides (East or West) condemn it.

    @ Commentator Mike & d dan
    What’s next? Invading Vietnam to put down the nefarious vietnamese posting on the internet?

    After all, being knowledgeable about politics IS a sin in Unz, a supposed alternative site, lawl.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  444. @Smith

    No Mr. Smith. If China attacked Vietnam I’d side with Viets, and if there were to be a Chinese fifth column in such a case I’d expect the Viets to come down hard on them. Hong Kong is China’s internal affair.

    • Replies: @Smith
  445. annamaria says:
    @d dan

    If you read several posts of the alleged “Vietnamese Smith,” you would immediately notice stylistic variations that cancel the ethnic pretense. Moreover, the “Vietnamese Smith” enjoys showing his/her cleverness at pretending to be Asian.
    It is not clear what makes him/her play the dishonest game. But it is quite possible that the ADL et al’ vicious hatred of UnzReview has been transduced into a paid littering on this forum.

    • Replies: @d dan
  446. Chinaman says:
    @Smith

    I am a HKer. I was born and bred here. I speak the language. My friends and family are HKer. I witness the protests everyday and is affected by it.

    The riots happens 15 minutes from my home.

    I meet protestors and anti protestors everyday

    My cousin is one of the violent rioters currently hiding in Taiwan!

    Then, you, one of the descendants of boat people we kindly took in and a bunch of white guys who might have never step foot in HK…profess to know more about the protest than I DO and try to EXPLAIN to me what the protest is about ?

    It is a sign of the times and the madness of world we live in.

  447. Chinaman says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I am a bit skeptical of the Boat people narrative but there are many individual groups in the protestors with the only thing uniting them being the five demands so it is logical that these Vietnamese fifth column would identify with the far right separatist, independence movement.

    Few HKer would say “I am not Chinese”. That would be a total denial of their roots and identity and a false statement. But it would make sense in the Boat people’s case since they are really not Chinese!

  448. Smith says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Oh okay, you see the problem comes when China invades Vietnam using the excuse of protecting their own 5th collumn/expats/ethnic chinese currently in Vietnam, the same excuse Russia used in Crimea.

    And to be clear, Hong Kong is Hong Kong’s own affair since they are an autonomous region, the problem comes when Beijing tries to influence Hong Kong.

    And as of the protest today on 6 September 2019, I think the protesters should call a quit. China already backs down and the protesters have already gained legitimacy. To continue with further unrealistic demands (such as abolishing the police, which might be psyop from China agent provocateurs) will severly damage the reputation of the protesters.

    Now it is time to re-organize, arm up and become/join legitimate political forces, not causing troubles on the street and losing the legitimacy/victory they have gained.

    I wash my hand off this protest as of today. It should only flare up again if the bill is still not withdrawn in 9 September 2019.

    Good luck to Hong Kong and its brave people.

    @ annamaria

    I am still waiting for the proof that I am not vietnamese. Are you gonna bark all days?

  449. Smith says:

    Your anecdotes are cute but reality shows the MAJORITY of protesters are peaceful, with violent incidents being minor and overblown (mostly physical beating, no cop or mainlander supporter has died), in fact, I have seen more cops beating people than the reverse in video footages, and the cops are always better equipped.

    And no, I’m not the descendant of the vietnamese living in Hong Kong, I’m born in Vietnam and have stayed here all my life.

    Chinese are boat people too, in fact, there are many chinese in Vietnam, from ancient times to now as expat workers/slaves of Chinese contractors. And vietnamese are in fact very worried of this, because China can use them as excuses to invade Vietnam.

    I assure you, Vietnam has more chinese than Hong Kong having vietnamese, you are blaming freaking vietnamese for a Beijing’s problem.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Erebus
  450. d dan says:
    @annamaria

    Whether Smith is of Vietnamese ethnic is NOT important. The more important point being that he is likely a paid employee of some group. Notice he is calling the protesters to stand down now – which is consistent with the interest (i.e. to kill the bill) of many foreign groups.

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @Smith
  451. Smith says:
    @d dan

    Yeah, man, it has nothing to do with the fact that the bill is proven to be bullshit and is built on a false premise (muh murderer in Taiwan, which Taiwan police contacted HK govt for special solution but got ignored in favor of a Beijing-backed bill).

    It’s a proven legit grievance, unlike stuff like abolishing the police, which is straight down Beijing’s talking point to smear the protesters.

  452. Smith says:

    Can Chicomman, denk, d dan explain the behaviours of those police?

    Turns out they are actually really violent, much more than the protesters.

    Brutal beating on 31/08/2019: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0pi1h/reupload_of_the_alleged_murder_on_3108/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

    Police straight out planting evidence on perp already downed: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0avcf/hong_kong_police_plant_evidence_to_citizen_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

    The Pro-Beijing protesters seem to be even more clueless than the protesters: https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=UkRpJ5UCN40&fbcl

    Yeah, it’s leddit but whatever.

    People here whine about how there’s too much media exposure on this protest by western media, but I don’t see those clips played on CNN 24/7.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Erebus
  453. @Smith

    Smith,

    And would those cops be any less violent if they were trained by US, French, or Israeli police? Anyway I think they were trained by the Brits and not PR China.

    OK, we all have our pet loves and hates here but why are you as a Viet living in Vietnam so concerned about this situation in Hong Kong? Or Russia’s annexation of Crimea, or did I get it wrong and you never actually expressed any misgivings about that – I can’t quite remember who wrote what in so many comments I go through? Perhaps you are trying to stand up for certain principles and fair enough, but I can’t see that Vietnamese authorities would react any differently if they were faced with a similar mass protest, especially if it was being supported, if not even instigated, by US.

    • Replies: @Smith
  454. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    It’s a proven legit grievance…

    So, does that mean that an extradition treaty with China/Taiwan/Macao/etc that follows similar principles to those HK has with US/UK/etc would be acceptable to the protestors?

  455. Smith says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Yeah, the point is that they are violent, regardless of where they come from, HK China,, Israel, US, Germany, France. I don’t make excuses for cops beating little kids.

    And yeah, if vietnamese authorities were beating up vietnamese protesters against China, I would be having the same comments, because it’s the same dumb shit. Cops need to be pointed out where they have stepped out of line.

    Either ways, Beijing talking point is there is western media bias against China, YET the actual clips of Hong Kong cops being super violent/doing illegal shit to protesters are not shown 24/7 in CNN, that means something is up. It seems BOTH the east and west cover their shit in HK.

    @ Erebus

    I don’t know, I can’t read mind thousand kilometers away, but I don’t think either Hong Kong or Taiwan want to risk it. This is the equivalence of “necessity of gun laws because someone did a mass shooting”in America, it’s going to be deeply unpopular no matter you try to make it similar to laws in other countries.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  456. DB Cooper says:
    @Smith

    FYI Vietnam is occupying several Chinese islands in the SCS as we speak. You should be grateful that China is Vietnam’s neighbors and not other countries.

  457. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    … I can’t read mind thousand kilometers away…

    In aggregate, your comments suggest that you can.

    Leaving that aside, would it constitute a “legitimate grievance” in your view if they didn’t?

    • Replies: @Smith
  458. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    Can you tell which islands?

    On my side, China is occupying and militarizing multiple islands of Vietnam and the maritime territory of Vietnam.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands#Early_records_and_cartography

    And we have HISTORICAL claims to these islands: https://www.quora.com/Are-Vietnam%E2%80%99s-bases-to-claim-islands-in-South-China-Sea-reliable

    @ Erebus

    How exactly?

    And in my opinion, if the people don’t want it, then that’s it. China should look into themselves on why HKer and Taiwanese don’t want a treaty with them.

    But the impression of mainlanders abroad show that everything we need to know, mainlanders are very thuggish.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  459. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    I’m not the descendant of the vietnamese living in Hong Kong, I’m born in Vietnam and have stayed here all my life.

    Well, except for that 2.5 yr stint in Miami, right Justin? I guess that’s how you mastered your uncannily American English, by talking to Brazilians.

    How, one wonders, did a Vietcong come to be working for a Brazilian co. in Miami and develop such an uncanny opinion of both Americans and Brazilians. And why, one wonders, did such an exceptional fellow go back to VN. Perhaps he found a calling in explaining Americans (and Brazilians) to the Vietnamese.

    By the way, how’s that little boy Dylan of yours doing nowadays? He’s gotta be 13 now. Is he still in the States? Perhaps with your mom?

    Methinks you’re a liar, Mr. Smith.

    • Replies: @Smith
  460. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    Can you tell which islands?

    You’ve misplaced this reply. I never mentioned any islands.

    How exactly?

    By telling us in so much detail what the rioters want, without having been anywhere near any of them.

    And in my opinion, if the people don’t want it, then that’s it.

    You’ve misunderstood my query. I wanted to know your opinion on the legitimacy of a bill that allowed extradition to TW/CN/MO on the same terms & conditions as the US/UK/etc, whatever the people of HK/TW/MO felt about it. IOW, is what’s good for the goose also good for the gander?

    China should look into themselves on why HKer and Taiwanese don’t want a treaty with them.

    They need not look long. 90% (rhetorically speaking) of the reason is that they’ve been propagandized into thinking so by their grotesquely corrupt elites who’re deathly afraid of being tried in CN for their crimes.

    Knowing both HK & TW (not MO) quite well, I’d say virtually none of the ordinary people have a clue or care about what extradition actually means in real life. In HK, the ordinary man in the street thinks the riots are all about the economy and prospects for young people.

    BTW, all of the TW businessmen I’ve had the conversation with think that re-unification with China is both inevitable and desirable. Primarily because the CN govts are seen as much less corrupt and capricious than TW. I haven’t had the conversation with HK businessmen, though I spend much more time there than TW, so can’t comment on HK. Of course, in HK’s case re-unification is inevitable regardless of what the elites and people think, so there’s not much to talk about.

    • Replies: @Smith
  461. @Daemon

    You’re fucking hilarious Chen. Don’t ever change.

    FYI, you really should have killed this guy when you had the chance:

    Published on: October 26th, 2018 • Duration: 56 minutes

    Kyle Bass sits down with infamous Chinese businessman Guo Wengui, also known as known as “Miles Kwok,” to hear a series of shocking accusations and predictions revolving around the Chinese government. Kwok provides his perception of the backstory behind several recent high-profile news items, and touches on the Chinese government’s management of the economy. He also unfurls an alarming forecast about Alibaba co-founder Jack Ma. Filmed on October 5, 2018 at an undisclosed location.

    https://www.realvision.com/tv/shows/the-kyle-bass-interviews/videos/the-kyle-bass-interviews-the-billionaire-chinese-dissident

  462. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    So what’s this? Because I can speak English well, I’m now a brazillian?

    Also that Justin “Smith” is not me, Smith is not a uncommon name.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  463. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    I was asking D.B Cooper, wrong quoting.

    Anyway, first off.
    The HK’s protest is well-covered by independent Hong Kongers, their demands have been solidified and have been repeated many times to avoid infiltration from CCP.

    Second, it doesn’t matter if the law is the same as the UK/US, it depends on if the people i.e. Hong Kongers WANT it or not. China is not the same country as UK/US, and Hong Konger and Taiwan don’t like China. China should look into WHY the people don’t like China instead of blaming CIA every times like with the US and the russians.

    Third, it doesn’t matter if EVERY BUSINESS MEN in Hong Kong and Taiwan want re-integration. Business men are country sellers, if you follow their every whims, you would end up selling everything you have. The only side you should follow is Nationalists, so for Hong Kong, Hong Kong nationalist and no one else. Also, keep repeating that lie, the business men in HK support extradition in China!

    • Replies: @Erebus
  464. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    Also that Justin “Smith” is not me…

    Ah, but on this site each commentor’s Pseudonym is linked to a distinct email address.

    Ergo, “(Justin) Smith” must have registered the same email address you type in every time you post. 2 people with the same name and email address seems like a coincidence too many, no?

    I, and most others here would call that “being caught in a lie”.

    • Agree: d dan
  465. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    Hmmm…

    You may be right about there being 2 (or more) “Smiths”. The sloganeering replies by the one posting further above were reasonably coherent in syntax and grammatical structure, if not in logic.

    The “Smith” that wrote these last two lacks that coherence and exhibits an unusually low level of reading comprehension as witnessed by the gaping discontinuities between the original query and his response.

    My working hypothesis is that there’s in fact several “Smiths” sharing a walkup somewhere in NT, promoting the State Dept’s agenda for HK to the best of their varied abilities. The “Smiths” are one of hundreds of such tag-teams the US funds in HK and around the world, wherever regime disruption/change is seen as geo-politically advantageous.

    It goes without saying that, to the extent that they try their luck in forums such as UR, they’re collectively wasting the US taxpayer’s money.

  466. Smith says:
    @Erebus

    So we are all Smith, like in the Matrix?

    And no, I don’t think the Justin “Smith” has the same email address as me, you can ask Unz for that.

    Anyway, this wild goose chase is entertaining especially when you use it to attack me because you have run out of rational argument.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  467. @Erebus

    Oh sod these Smiths. Here another bigmouth strikes again.

  468. d dan says:
    @Erebus

    Good detective work, Erebus. He thinks he is helping US, but is actually wasting our tax money.

  469. Erebus says:
    @Smith

    So we are all Smith, like in the Matrix?

    Sorta, but I doubt any of you have the Matrix’ Smiths’ athletic prowess.

    And no, I don’t think the Justin “Smith” has the same email address as me, you can ask Unz for that.

    I’d get more useful information if your handlers told you how they hacked the original Smith’s email address off the Unz site.

    Anyway, this wild goose chase is entertaining…

    You were plainly showing signs of overwork, so I thought you needed the diversion. Anyway, glad you liked it.

    Go home. Get some sleep. This gig is over.

  470. Beijinger says:

    MSM from China, if you care, I just checked my ‘China gvt censored for sure’ cell phone to find the most recent HK related news (Beijing time 20190910 18:00) I can receive and translate the titles and most like comments to you. (comments in bracket; separated by semicolon)

    1. US media ask Carrie Lam‘bill withdrawn but protest goes on?’ Carrie Lam respond directly.
    (conversations with public should be made, but no conversation with the rioters; for the separatist, no matter whatever you do, they just find new excuses; support HK Chief Executive, support HK police, HK peace and recovery soon )

    2. After reveal the true face of HK separatists, a HK tea restaurant owner received threatening conversation.
    (thumbs up for such honorable man; still too less ; that’s the kind of people HK need, also an embarrassment to those silent ones)

    3. Twice caught, twice released, Huang Zhifeng is not a subject of HK jurisdiction?
    (India judger in HK, no surprise; Qianli the Indian should cleaned out from HK judiciary; rioter should be punished and Law should be abide and enforced; such people should not be bailed )

    4. The tea restaurant owner speaks again, not frightened by the threats received after he revealed that some consortium support separatist .
    (I support this Mr to join the HK parliament; HKer is responsible of HK stability; support his restaurant; )
    5. Internal and external collusions to mess up HK, Carrie Lam don’t concede, she just send the 1st strong warning.
    (iron hand in need, support Carrie Lam; cut the knots with a sharp knife; Carrie Lam, be strong;)
    6. HK students in mainland: ‘mainlander is enthusiastic and magnanimous’
    (magnanimous also has its limit, HK is China, study in Beijing is not study abroad, sad for the brainwashed HK students; mainlander is magnanimous to HKer, HKer is not magnanimous to mainlanders )
    7. ‘Young losers’messed up, HK pays! 50% guests scared and run away, reality is slap in the face.
    (anyhow HK don’t pay state taxes; service is important industry for HK, can’t bare it to continue such chaos, HK decline and surpass by Guangzhou in sight; if HKer don’t love HK, there is not much mainlander can do; check out the neighbor Macau, it’s great, just visited there, nice place, great people, clean street. )

    [MORE]

    8. Key: HK police get the report! How long can the eye burst woman’s ‘secret’been kept.
    (separatist in med system, how permeated! Looks like most separatist is still hided, should take them all; HK, disappointment; HK police, my admirations for your weakness/forbearance; police should sue that woman of her malicious accusations, she damaged the police reputation, hospital should public the report; ignore the eye, this woman is heart blind)
    (I worried for that woman, but now I know she is a separatist, such an end for her, what a relief for me; can’t escape the karma, separatist should think twice before the bad doings; )

    9. Rioters threaten a‘HK 911’to‘kill those who don’t speak proper Cantonese’
    (They run out of cash, make some noise/actions to get paid; even many HKer don’t speak proper Cantonese; US at their back, they are terrorist, US support terrorist; terrorist must be perished during sprout phases, HK police hit out )

    10. Tourists decline to 40%, HK Disneyland become land of no body. HK people speak out in CCTV News.
    (finally HK Disneyland complains, just close down; it’s ok, just a time matter for HK to become tier 3 city of China; When I visit there, as mainlander, feels like they own me something wtf when I pay them as a consumer, now no more visiting, they complain… I have no memory or what? I’d rather visit Macao; for months, some HK people kept silence, but there is a saying: not one snowflake is innocent when there is snow slide)

    11. Ta Kung Pao: HK hired many foreigner judgers, these people have ‘political loyalty issues’.
    (people not born in HK, should not be HK judger; Chinese SAR, in the hands of foreigners, should be changed to Chinese; decolonization , urgent! Such poison should be removed, otherwise there will be no peace in HK in the future.)

    12. ‘hate the police’education start with the kids? Angry parents expose.
    (thumb up for those parents in HK; horrific, is that the education in HK?; finally some rational parents; this is also a warning bell for us, patriotism education should start with the kid. Moral, intellectual, physics, aesthetics and labor education, moral is No. 1, we went wrong to position intellectual in first place. If the kids don’t love their own country, what good comes out of such education?)

    13. Man in Tianshuiwei yell: ’I am Chinese HK citizen’against the rioters. Listen what he says.
    (thumb up for HK people have sense of justice, brave man; HK people already organized themselves against the rioters; this is truly man, discriminate between right and wrong, insist in justice and believe in justice never absent )

    14. ‘For HK, I should do this.’ two women speak out at UN, regardless of slanders.
    (beautiful woman, even more beautiful minds; Admirations; salute to the brave ones.)
    15. Local HK girl, give up HK University to Shanghai Fudan University:‘ I see different world.’
    (Anywho passed the exam to Fudan, that’s some badass students, just image the atmosphere there for study; HK don’t recognize the mainland collage education, so what for that after graduate?; HK education should also use mandarin, no English only, that’s why youngster don’t know their country, they don’t even know the language, how to know the country?)

    16. Speakwoman in Ministry of Foreign Affair: Germany minister of foreign affair is contact Huang Zhifeng, what for?
    (German minister of foreign affair is just the same level of Huang Zhifeng ; Merkel just visited China, German is not sincere at all; To the Germans, business is business, politic is polic.)

    17. Questions to ask to the black vest HKer: Are you Chinese? Do you love China? Do you wish any good for China?
    (HK gvt should do something with their education, kid should know their own country; HK check the double citizenship; they sold their souls for some personal gains; black vest don’t recognize themselves as Chinese at all, just see those flags they hold; Playing the piano to bulls.)

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @d dan
  471. Smith says:

    Meanwhile, in Hong Kong:

    Mainlanders posing as HKers to smash stuff, finally confirmed the theory of CCP shills chimping out:

    These are the pieces of shit who’ve been removing and destroying the flowers at Prince Edward Station from HongKong

    Remember the time by Chicomman when he says HK girls were offering sex for protesters freely? Confirmed fake news promoted by ta da, a Beijing shill politician in HK: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d23tgr/probeijing_politician_fanny_law_urged_to_quit/

    (maybe that’s where Chicomman got his info from?)

    “Off-duty” HK police got provided with baton (for what? LOL I guess it’s time for protesters to carry bats to defend themselves), CCP state media make up a false flag i.e. 9/11 to smear protesters: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d27e9p/what_happened_on_10919_in_hong_kong/

    Carrie Lam SAD at the MTR “vandalism” (likely caused by her own gang of cops), but never visited any injured citizen: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d1rmqu/oh_ms_carrie_lam_treats_mtr_ticket_machines_with/

    HK govt is already trying to ban VPN: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d27dq6/as_protesters_march_on_private_internet_access/

    Is it me or the protests are still going strong despite the pressure from the CCP and many fake news being made up? Anyway, good luck HK!

  472. Chinaman says:

    I think one of the questions future historians will ask 50 years from now is why didn’t HKer overthrow the British colonial government during 150 of imperial rule but revolted against its motherland. They will be perplexed since objective living conditions and economic well being of even the lowest strata in HK is much better off now than what he had to endure under colonial rule. What drove these people to beg to be enslaved again?

    is it that economic development is associated with political discontent? Is a full tummy the devil’s workshop ?

    I think it is income disparity and relative poverty that is the issue here. Everyone was poor under the British and people saw opportunity to improve their lives. Nowadays, most Hker suffers from the house nigger syndrome and income disparity has gone to unsustainable levels.

    It is sad that none of the 5 demands actually address these root causes. What about asking for housing subsidies or more public housing? The whole discussion still revolve some stupid trivial matter like police brutality, CCP hatred or some amorphous ideals such as freedom and democracy. ( the kind of thing Smith talks about) It is so childish and not constructive. No one is focus on the real issues. The protestors could have used the opportunity to ask for something concrete instead to settle ideological differences which can never resolved. This is the lunacy of current situation.

    At the end, they won’t get their demands or any economic concessions, it will all be futile.

    • Replies: @Smith
  473. Smith says:
    @Chinaman

    We will talk about the economy once the situation calms down, because the protesters’s care more about autonomy than economy.

    And the reason the HKers did not rebel or want to rebel against British rule is because British rule was better than mainland rule, and now the current autonomy is still better than whatever is going on in the mainland.

    And I talk about freedom, but never democracy, I detest democracy.

  474. Chinaman says:
    @Beijinger

    10. Tourists decline to 40%, HK Disneyland become land of no body. HK people speak out in CCTV News.
    (finally HK Disneyland complains, just close down; it’s ok, just a time matter for HK to become tier 3 city of China; When I visit there, as mainlander, feels like they own me something wtf when I pay them as a consumer, now no more visiting, they complain… I have no memory or what? I’d rather visit Macao; for months, some HK people kept silence, but there is a saying: not one snowflake is innocent when there is snow slide)

    I was at Disneyland last weekend with kids, honestly, it was a much better experience without the tourists. Less wait, more “civilised”. It is unsustainable at this rate of course, they will shut down if tourism don’t recover,

    Streets are less crowded and it feels like HK 20 years ago. HK have been operating over its limit for a long time and it actually feel good now… 10 million ( including mobile population) on a small island and peninsula is too much. I think a lot of Hker are quietly breathing a sign of relief the tourists are gone and they have yet to feel the impact of the economy. 80% of the income goes to the top 50 families anyway.

    It is xenophobia and I totally understand where it is coming from.

    Next, we just need to get rid of the white dude and brown people here too. Still too many of these tax evading parasites here. If we can do without mainlanders, we can do without these fifth column scums.

    In a sense, we are refusing to become Pattaya. Not being waiters and concierge to the world

    • Replies: @Erebus
  475. d dan says:
    @Beijinger

    I think it is time for Carrie to use the emergency power to start arresting the big instigators that are behind the scene. 引蛇出洞 has been waited for too long because the big culprits are starting to retreat now.

    • Agree: Erebus
    • Replies: @Erebus
  476. Erebus says:
    @Chinaman

    Next, we just need to get rid of the white dude and brown people here too. Still too many of these tax evading parasites here. If we can do without mainlanders, we can do without these fifth column scums.

    I’m not sure I like HK’s chances without the mainland.

    Unlike Singapore, HK failed to create a real role for itself. It made noises about becoming “Asia’s World City”, but HK’s economy remained all about tourism and F.I.R.E., and neither can provide a real, resilient economy. Both are themselves parasitic on the real wealth being created elsewhere and so are subject to trends and events over which it has no control. If the host dies or inoculates itself, the parasite dies. To the extent HK isolates itself from real wealth creation, and fails to create its own, it will watch its future become increasingly dimmer.

    Be careful what you wish for. Pattaya may look good to HK-ers in a few decades.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Chinaman
  477. Erebus says:
    @d dan

    And while she’s at it, she should ban a few 1000 of the “NGO” front organizations as well. That’s where enemy snakes hide in plain sight.

  478. Chinaman says:
    @Erebus

    I stood at Time Square in Causeway Bay today and watch thousands of people sing this HK anthem.

    It was hard not to be moved by the emotions and revolutionary fervor.

    It is crazy since I don’t even support them. At least singing is better than destroying our own home.

    I love HK so I know what they are trying to defend even though Democracy and independence are not the solutions to their problems.

    Anyway, enjoy this song. Proud to be a HK Chinese.

  479. Chinaman says:
    @Erebus

    As a born and bred HKer, I understand their struggle.

    They are saying they are willing to sacrifice our economy ( not really theirs) to defend our unique identity as HKer. They don’t want to be assimilated into China.

    Every Chinese commenting here comes from different region with its own dialect and culture. We can all relate to the the desire to defend our unique identity and not forced to be, for example, Hebei farmers.

    I think the whole movement is gaining momentum andIt shows no signs of abating. It is dragging everyone into it like a snowball.

    It will not end well as you said…it will be be worst than pattaya. May be like Poland when it defy Hilter in WW2.

    It is too late to stop the Wheel of History now. I hope everyone will remember HK at its best. HK was a beacon of light in the nightsky and shone brightly for all Chinese!

    • Replies: @Erebus
  480. Seraphim says:

    Waving American flags is not like waving a red rag to the bull? Deliberate provocation to force a Tiananmen 2.0? Are not the HKers turning off the ‘beacon of light’?

  481. Erebus says:
    @Chinaman

    They are saying they are willing to sacrifice our economy ( not really theirs) to defend our unique identity as HKer. They don’t want to be assimilated into China.

    There is no push to integrate them into China in the sense that they’re encouraged to “become Hebei farmers”. In the first place, the Hebei farmers would have none of it and tell them to go home.

    They are Cantonese, and it is an accident of history that they live next door to a largely Cantonese province with a largely Cantonese mother tongue and a Cantonese kitchen instead of wholly integrated into it since time immemorial.

    Shamir’s title hits the nail on the head. HK-ers reject their Cantonese speaking Guangdong cousins with almost as much vehemence and disdain as they reject Hebei farmers. Like the comprador classes in India, HK-ers seem to view themselves as superior because they were colonized by non-Chinese. It’s a very strange phenomena, but perhaps this article better catches the real reasons behind HK’s socio-political issues. Social chauvinism has metathesized into political action, and if allowed to play out can take HK backwards while an ocean of Chinese next door move forwards. HK has to re-write that script in a positive direction, or it’ll go all the way to the bottom waving the superiority flag like the Ukrainian social chauvinists have taken Ukraine in denial of their Russian roots.

    I hope everyone will remember HK at its best. HK was a beacon of light in the nightsky and shone brightly for all Chinese!

    It shone brightly for some of us Westerners as well. No longer with the clarity it once did, but still still casts an oddly mysterious light that Singapore (for instance) can’t match. How long, one wonders, before the mystery turns into misery? Not soon, I hope.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Malla
  482. Chinaman says:
    @Erebus

    ike the comprador classes in India, HK-ers seem to view themselves as superior because they were colonized by non-Chinese. It’s a very strange phenomena

    You hit the nail on the head with this one. It is a bit like dogs that are well-trained by the British looking down on this feral but free brethren. But I can definitely say this house nigger syndrome is the minority, at most 5-10% of the population which represents the most disaffected crazies.

    No self-respecting person, whether Chinese or not, would beg to be enslaved.

    This kind of cultural chauvinism or superiority complex is ingrained and has genetic roots. it is none but the well documented in- group out-group phenomena. The expression “Chinese are a hand of loose sand.” reflects the fact that Han is not as homogenous as most think and there is a large genetic diversity along the North-south, East West axis. The Beijinger despises the Hebei farmers. The Shanghainese thinks all other Chinese are beneath them. This extends to the individual level of course.

    I have moved beyond that a long time ago of course (my wife is a Suzhou mainlander, my mum is Cantonese, my dad is Singaporean) but as a HKer, I do feel this unique identity (which is quite distinct from Canton) is worth preserving and should be cherished. Not its shameful colonial past but the vibrant local culture that has given us Bruce Lee and Yip Man. Most mainlanders older than 30 grew up on HK movies and soap pop. I think every Chinese will agree with me that we shouldn’t just let that fade away into the oblivion… for economic reasons or in the name of “progress”…

    Singapore never had anything like that, the British not only colonize the land but their minds too. it is the most destructive form of colonization. Singaporean culture is no different from western culture today.

    The economic and cultural “encroachment” from the North is real which is why there is so much pushback. I am a realist and I just see it as natural development but many in HK resents it. I don’t think it is wanting to go back under the British ( I will fight tooth and nail against that ) but defending the last vestige of the HK that was the Pearl of the East.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  483. d dan says:

    “HK-ers reject their Cantonese speaking Guangdong cousins with almost as much vehemence and disdain as they reject Hebei farmers.”

    Almost the same situation as Taiwaneses who reject the Fujian people. So sad and political.

  484. Erebus says:
    @Chinaman

    Thanks for all your observations and comments Mr. Chinaman, and Mr. d dan as well. Through them I learned a few things and gained perspectives I wouldn’t have otherwise.

    HK, which I’ve visited literally 100s of times over the last 3 decades, came to its crossroads in the ’90s and seemed to stop there. It failed to go one way or the other and drifted, so chosing to define itself in the negative, by what it wasn’t rather than by what it was, or more importantly by what it could/should be.

    Again, I’m reminded of the Ukraine’s “nationalists” who can’t think of a better definition for their nation than as “not Russian”. In both cases, I blame the elites. They are normally the ones to define the nation, and both defined their nations as cash cows. As long as they could be milked, who needs a national vision?

    After reading your comments, I’m actually more hopeful than before. HK-ers apparently sense that this is the real issue. They want a vision of a HK that looks after their interests and has a place in the world, and leadership they can get behind to work towards it. Alas, they (& I) don’t see a Lee Kuan Yew, or a Putin, who understands the social/political/economic/cultural boundary conditions within which he must work and knows how & where he can stretch them. The ultimate irony may come in the form of an LKY/Putin sent by Beijing to MHKGA. HK-ers certainly seem to know that Carrie Lam and her predecessors ain’t it, and I’m sure Beijing knows it too.

    HK-ers are nothing if not pragmatic, so maybe they’ll accept him/her if he acts quickly to ram through solutions to the most egregious economic issues. The first of these is surely to call the oligarchs in and tell them straight that the game has changed, and lays out the new rules with a polite “Them’s the rules. Abide, or fuck off”. Much like Putin did in Russia. Ordinary people notice things like that, and as soon as they realize the new guy’s for real, they’ll get behind him however loud the local petty politicians and posers howl.

    Again, thanks for the exchange.

  485. Malla says:
    @Erebus

    Like the comprador classes in India, HK-ers seem to view themselves as superior because they were colonized by non-Chinese

    What? That is some dumb rubbish.

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