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Once in a blue moon, this writer’s view coincides with that of the New York Times leader. It has happened now. The Saudi predilection for gore is not easy to stomach. The House of al Saud chose to celebrate the New Year, Christmas and Nativity of the Prophet Muhammad by shooting (or chopping heads, or whatever is their wont now) some forty-seven persons, conveniently described as “terrorists”. One of the condemned to death is the Palestinian poet Ashraf Fayadh who terrorised the Saudis by curating their exhibition at Biennale of Venice, by writing free-thinking poetry, letting his hair grow long and smoking tobacco. Another of the executed men was the Shiite Ayatollah (Bishop) Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr, “a vocal critic of the regime and champion of the rights of the Shiite minority in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia, but not an advocate of violent action”, in words on the New York Times. He languished in jail since 2012, was beaten and tortured and eventually killed.

His horrified coreligionists in Iran torched an annex of the Saudi embassy, while the Saudis broke diplomatic relations with Iran. So did their satellite Bahrain: this tiny statelet with its Shia populace and Sunni rulers, a home for the US Fifth Fleet, had been invaded and occupied by the Saudi troops in 2011. (UAE, Kuwait and Sudan downgraded their missions). It appears that the Saudis “counted on the fierce reaction in Iran and elsewhere as a distraction from economic problems at home and to silence dissenters”, says the NYT. Amazingly, they wanted to push their country to the brink of war, as if two ongoing wars in Syria and Yemen are not enough for them.

Being painfully aware that they can’t fight their real enemy Iran alone, they called for the Arab league and for their phony “anti-terrorist Islamic NATO”, a “military bloc” they had declared. Leaders of the “Islamic bloc” countries learned from newspapers that they were supposed to fight Daesh terrorists under the Saudi banner. The mass executions and the Iranian response perhaps may re-formulate this coalition of the unwilling into the anti-Shia front the Saudis had originally wanted. Daesh is their friend and offspring; the latest beheading shows there is no big difference between the twain. Meanwhile Iran is a sort of democracy, which they loathe.

However, I want to share with you insights from a Russian freelance scholar with a military background who runs the limited distribution Triple-R (Russian Ranger Reports) on Yemen and Saudia. He proposes a different reading of the map.

In his view, this was no coldly planned action, but rather spontaneous spite. Prince Mohammed ibn Salman, the king’s son, hates his main competitor for the throne, Interior Minister Prince Mohammed ibn Naef (whose father the powerful Prince Naef recently died, undermining his son’s chances for the throne) and he arranged for execution of Sheikh Nimr in order to entangle Prince ibn Naef in the conflict with local Shias. He took from him his National Guard, leaving him with next to nothing in case of trouble. Perhaps. But wars happen for even smaller reasons, and the recent developments in Saudi Arabia call for a shrink, not for a military or political analyst. We forgot in our age of reason that absolute monarchies act for very human reasons, and what could be more human than madness?

Something is wrong in the thick heads of Saudi sheiks. Instead of serenely enjoying their good fortune, they let the delusion of omnipotence lure them to their perdition. Freud connected this feeling with anal erotism, and it should not come as a surprise to any careful reader of T.E. Lawrence. Indeed any woman could cure a man of such delusion, but in strictly separated sexual life of the Saudis such encounters occur too late in life.

God knows they had a lot of luck. Once the feudal lords of a remote strip of sand called Nejd in the heart of the Arabian desert, they pried away Hijaz with its major prize of Mecca and Medina from the Hashemite descendants of the Prophet. They made an alliance with the US financiers and the military; they turned their oil into heaps of dollars, palaces, jets.

The Muslims of this world received no benefits from the Saudi money heap. Rather a curse than a blessing, their petrodollars destroyed everything they touched. The Saudis had sent their prince Osama bin Laden to Afghanistan, and ruined the country. Their money (and American weapons) devastated Chechnya, Bosnia, Kosovo, Somali, Libya, Syria, Yemen. Now they undermine Niger, Chad and Nigeria.

Have no doubt: the big bad West, NATO and Pentagon together would never be able to ruin the Muslim world without the Saudi connivance.

They appointed themselves defenders of Sunni Islam, but they helped the US to destroy the mightiest Sunni state of all, Iraq of Saddam Hussein and rejoiced at Saddam’s fall.

They caused the collapse of the democratically elected Muslim government of President Morsi of Egypt and installed the military dictator in his stead (he turned out less obedient than they expected). I do not exaggerate: Morsi’s fall was a result of a conspiracy arranged and paid for by the Saudis. They used the methods previously applied against the last Soviet government of Russia, namely they created artificial shortages of food and petrol, they sent hired thugs to cause insecurity. Once Morsi was removed, as by the wave of a magic wand the shortages and thugs were gone. The Saudi-sponsored Salafists supported the military coup and gained at the Muslim Brotherhood’s banishment.


They did not help the most oppressed Sunni Muslims, the Palestinians of Gaza, when they suffered the brunt of an Israeli blockade and shelling. Oh yes, they promised (“committed”) billions for Gaza reconstruction, but none of these promised billions were delivered. The Saudis are very generous with their promises, but stingy with actual payments. (I learned it first hand: a Saudi newspaper reprinted my essays from Palestine during the Intifada; they promised to pay, but they never did.) They spend their money on the import of luxury and weapons, and on the export of their extremist ideology (in religious guise) to other Muslim countries and communities.

The Saudis acted nasty for many years. An outsider, I was astonished to learn that they are hated even more than Israelis by the average Arab, be it Palestinian, Egyptian or Lebanese. But they grew in nastiness with every year. They (and their terrible dwarf twin Qatar) conspired with NATO against Libya, and ruined this country. Afterwards, they shipped Qaddafi’s vast arsenal of weaponry to Syria via good services of their friends in Turkey. They were the engine behind the war in Syria and they prevailed upon Erdogan to enter this war. However, until recently they preferred to act on the sly.

They have got an Israeli complex, a complex of a pampered child who is allowed and encouraged by his adoring parent (the US) to tear off the wings and legs of living creatures. Nothing would force the US to condemn the Saudis – or Israel. Existence of the KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) is the sterling proof that the Jewish Lobby is not the only reason for the US Mideast policy and is not the single source of general nastiness in the region.

The Israeli complex is a feeling that one can do anything and everything. Such kids end in jail, and this is mentality of the KSA rulers. Their mad plans go astray because the plans are too big while their abilities are too limited. Being mentally unable to recognise their limitations, they blame their failures on Iran. Iran has its own problems, but Iran is not infatuated with the Saudis as the Saudis are obsessed with Iran.

The diplomats stationed in Saudia told me of Saudi lack of interest for the Palestinian cause, or for Daesh. For them, there is only one problem in the world: Iran. This unites them with Israel, where Iran is the main obsession of Prime Minister Netanyahu. Israel and Saudia are the great Semitic couple, a marriage made in hell. Of the two, Israel is relatively sober, while the Saudis are temperamental, passionate, given to fantasies, unable to plan.

I noticed their abnormal (in medical sense) attitude when the then head of Saudi intelligence Prince Bandar came to Moscow and tried to bribe President Putin. He offered fifteen billion dollars for the delivery of Syria. Putin politely declined, though this incident caused many a Russian official to twitch his eyebrows: it painfully reminded them of Yeltsin’s days when such offers (with a much cheaper price tag) were gratefully accepted. (In other ex-Soviet countries their offers are snapped up sight unseen. Bulgarians sell their weapons to Daesh, while the Ukraine supplies professional military men for Saudia.) Prince Bandar remained brooding for a few days more in the Moscow Lotte Hotel, getting deadly drunk every night and causing a big strain on Russian security.

The Russians try their best to be friendly with the Saudis. If you think that after the long litany of their transgressions the Russians would plainly hate Saudis’ guts, you do not understand the game. They desire to keep the channels of communication open. It has to be a direct hostile action, like the downing of their jet, for the Russians to switch to outright hostility, and the Saudis never went that far.

The Russians are not a timid exception. Nobody wants to upset the Saudis. They got away with their citizens’ involvement in 9/11. They can commit any barbarity, and nobody would object. From this angle, they are perhaps second to Israel, or even second to none. In 1981, Israel fought tooth and claw against President Reagan’s decision to sell AWACS aircraft to the Saudis, and lost. (This was the only case of Israeli losing until the recent Iran nuclear agreement.) Actually the only senior Western statesperson who dared to give Saudis a piece of her mind was the Swedish Foreign Minister, the indomitable Margot Wallström; and she also read riot act to the Israelis, making them scream “Holocaust!”

The Saudis visibly became too big for their boots when they attacked Yemen in an act of unrestrained open aggression against a neighbour. And this war is not going well. While everybody paid attention to the mass beheadings, on New Year’s Day, at midnight sharp, when you perhaps toasted your friends, the Saudis (meaning Prince Mohammed ibn Salman) unleashed the biggest ever air strike on Sana and other cities. They bombed the international airport and air base Dailami, the Expo Apollo business centre, the native villages of Ali Saleh, ex-president of Yemen. Such a New Year’s present… And at the same time, the Saudi forces with their Moroccan troops were beaten at Haradh border crossing, and the Houthis entered Saudia and took positions on the Saudi side, in a few miles from the border.

In short, general nastiness and cruelty are not a sufficient substitute for fighting abilities. The Saudis are not great fighters. They can bomb luckless Yemenis, but they cannot deal with Iran. Iran has many more troops, more tanks, more experience, a bigger population. However, the Saudis have an enormous military budget, over US\$56 billion as opposed to US\$6 billion for the Iranian war chest. This probably means that Iran and the Saudis will not start the war of their own volition. None is strong enough to defeat its adversary.

Iran may hope that internal problems of the KSA will cause its disintegration with a little help from the outside. Saudis may hope to get Israeli support. In the US, there are strong pro-Saudi and pro-Israel forces who were trashed but not eliminated by Obama. So the chances for war are slim, but not nil.

The Russians do not intend to intervene. They are busy fighting successfully in Syria; they helped the government forces to retake Homs and Aleppo. The Russians offered their mediation facilities to settle the Saudi-Iranian conflict, but probably it will bear no fruit. Putin prefers a bad peace to a good war, and this is what he has suggested to the Saudis and Iranians.


It is a pity Saudis do not understand that their problem is not Iran. They have just run out of their luck and of their resources. They can’t fight two wars and sell their oil for peanuts (intending to undermine Iran and Russia) and cut down their welfare programs and incite the Shia rebellion by beheading that beloved preacher. If they weren’t obsessed with spreading their aggressive ideology, they could live wonderfully well, and hundreds of thousands men and women in Tripoli, Aleppo, Aden and Grozny would be still alive. But those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.

Israel Shamir can be reached at [email protected]

This article was first published at The Unz Review.

• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Iran, Saudi Arabia 
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  1. No doubt Israel, no doubt. Tragedy for all the victims, and not simply a mistake, but very great crimes.

    • Replies: @KA
  2. “… to any careful reader of T.S. Lawrence…”

    Not read careful enough-he was T. E. Lawrence.

    Of course if you’ve never lived anywhere south of (S)tockholm you wouldn’t know that.

    • Disagree: Wizard of Oz
  3. athEIst says:

    AWACS aircraft to the Saudis.
    If you look into it, I think you will find that the Israelis got a couple of AWACs out of the deal(probably free). Later they undercut Lockheed when Turkey wished to buy some AWACs. They made a cheaper version after they reverse-engineered the AWACs they had acquired.

  4. Clyde says:

    The Iranian goal is to have Mecca-Medina under Shiite Iranian control and have tens of millions of Sunni Arabs convert to Shiite. Give them time on this.
    Iran mass converted from Sunni to Shiite a few centuries ago so anything can happen.

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  5. @anony-mouse

    You’re a knee-biting idiot. From context, it’s clear he was referring, to the English novelist D. H. Lawrence, not the over-rated soldier-arabist T. E. Lawrence.

  6. Tom Welsh says:

    An excellent briefing that explains more than many books. Thank you!

  7. bjondo says:

    The diplomats stationed in Saudia told me of Saudi lack of interest for the Palestinian cause, or for Daesh.

    yes, for the most part they have fake sympathy for the palestinians. the sauds are interested in daesh because usisrael demands it and they see an opportunity to hurt hezbullah and iran but it is demanded by u.s. for the gulf puppies participate.

    Nobody wants to upset the Saudis. They got away with their citizens’ involvement in 9/11. They can commit any barbarity, and nobody would object.

    saudis were involved in 9-11? jews certainly. american traitors, yes. saudis, no.

    the sauds get away with whatever the zionized u.s. permits. awacs served the sauds how? america and israel received more benefit.

    If they weren’t obsessed with spreading their aggressive ideology, they could live wonderfully well, and hundreds of thousands men and women in Tripoli, Aleppo, Aden and Grozny would be still alive. But those whom the


    wish to destroy they first make mad.

    those dead would be alive if not for zionized u.s. the sauds(s. arabia) are just a tool who will eventually come under the yinon plan.

  8. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Really? Then why was it corrected to T. E. Lawrence?

    The key thing to notice are the words ‘anal eroticism’.

    One way to detect a fake intellectual from a real one is to see which one gets his info from the movie of a person’s life instead of concentrating on their actual works.

    ‘T. S . Lawrence’? I’m surprised he didn’t misspell it ‘Peter O’Toole’.

    (In fairness I’m sure he knows a great deal about Sweden so I wouldn’t dare question him on that.)

  9. Rehmat says:

    It’s interesting to know the ‘Jew York Times, and ex-Israeli Jew writer, Israel Shamir agreed on something which is nothing but distortion of Muslim history.

    1. Saudi ‘royals’ with Jewish family roots, were helped by British colonists to occupy Najaf (Makkah and Medina) before WWI as they helped European Jews to occupy Palestine after WWII.

    2. Saudi Wahabi regime like the Zionist regime, knows it cannot defeat the Islamic Republic of Iran without active American military support. So far, indirect American support for Saddam Hussein against Iran, Israel in Lebanon and Syria, Saudi Arabia against Yemen have miserably failed.

    3. Bahrain, a Shia-majority used to be a province of Iran until 19th century before it was occupied by the British Raj.

    4. Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Iran under King Reza Shah aided Yemen’s Houtis against Nasser’s Egyptian army in Yemen which resulted the division of Yemen into communist and Yazidi states.

    5. When Saudi ‘royal’ declared their Saudi Kingdom, the region was Desert and people’s only income used to be annual pilgrims. The British plan for KSA was to create Shia-Sunni sectarianism and anti-Muslim terrorism being the rulers of Islam’s two most sacred cities.

    Bruce Riedel, is a former 30-year CIA official and currently a senior fellow at Israel advocacy group, Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institute. On January 17, 2013, in a memorendum to president Barack Hussein Obama, Riedel warned him that a possible overthrow of Saudi ‘royals’ would represent a severe setback to America’s domination of the region and provide a dramatic strategic windfall for the Islamic Republic.

    “A revolution in Saudi Arabia remains unlikely but, for the first time, due to the Arab Awakenings, it has become possible. The Saudi royal family has unique strengths and legitimacy; the Kingdom was founded in the 18th century as an alliance between the royal family and an austere Islamic preacher whose followers still partner with the House of Saud to govern the state,” wrote Reidel.

  10. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Well you’re a brave man to sound so confident when you are struggling.

    What did D.H.Lawrence have to do with anal eroticism (though maybe you recall a scene of two men wrestling in the film of Lady Chatterly’s Lover and are confused) and what connection did that Lawrence have with the Arab world?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @5371
  11. @Wizard of Oz

    Actually it was the film of “Sons and Lovers” that had the wrestling scene wasn’t it?

  12. @anony-mouse

    Sorry. I misplaced my Disagree….

  13. bjondo says:

    if anyone here missed, good by israel shamir:

    “What Really Happened in the “Yom Kippur” War?”

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  14. krollchem says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    See the Seven Pillars, Chapter I, page 2 (1935 edition) for the TE Lawrence veiled anal erotism as quoted in:

    As for the “over-rated soldier-arabist T. E. Lawrence”, what are your reasons for coming to that conclusion?

  15. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The colossal arms purchases of the Saudis from the US is more to buy the US as a bodyguard than to use it themselves. It doesn’t seem likely they themselves could use all these tens of billions of dollars of advanced weapons. Their armed forces are staffed with foreigners such as Yemenis recruited from allied tribes for their troops. The article mentions Moroccan soldiers which seems par for the course. It wouldn’t be surprising if the pilots carrying out the airstrikes were also revealed to be hired foreigners.
    Making these multi-billion dollar arms purchases from the US creates an internal constituency for the Saudis and thus a lobby. The Israeli lobby is a very noisy one but the Saudi one stealthily flies under the radar; money talks. In addition the Saudis have cooperated with the US in all it’s various foreign adventures. Bandar was even involved with Oliver North and the Contra affair even though he later said he didn’t know where the country was or cared anything about it.
    There’s Arabs and then there’s Arabs. The Saudis and others of the peninsula consider themselves to be the original and ‘true’ Arabs. The rest are descendants of other people who were Arabized after being conquered, analogous to the Spanish ‘Latinizing’ of the natives during it’s conquests of the Americas. Do Spaniards see Mexicans and Bolivians as being the same as themselves? That’s one reason the Saudis are so cavalier and dismissive of their supposed ‘fellow Arabs’. They’ll just spend the money at the casino until it’s all gone.

  16. Bliss says:

    You can literally see the fear in the eyes of the Saudi ruling family as their decades long sectarian salafi jihadism is finally boomeranging on them.

    Will Obama come to their defense when they are about to fall, like Putin intervened for the Assad regime in Syria? After all the US has far more at stake in Saudi Arabia and the Sheikdoms of the Gulf than Russia does in Syria.

    Will the salafi jihadis of ISIS, al-Qaeda et al take advantage of saudi vulnerability and turn their eyes to the far greater prize in the south?

  17. 5371 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Oh, wizard, wizard.
    You didn’t read the description of Mellors and Lady C’s last night together very attentively.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  18. RobinG says:


    March 5 and 6, Washington DC

  19. krollchem says:

    Unfortunately, The Saudi rulers plan to continue their grand ideological project by selling off their resources “Thatcherism” to pay for their plans as explained by Muhammad bin Salman, Saudi Arabia’s deputy crown prince and defence minister:

    A further analysis of this interview can be found at the Moon of Alabama:

  20. Rehmat says:

    You’re 101% correct. Why else a Saudi prince al Waleed bin Talal who has partnership in a few Israeli companies, said that Saudis trust Israeli Jews more than Iranian shias!

  21. Ximenes says:

    “…and sell their oil for peanuts (intending to undermine Iran and Russia)..”

    Does that mean what I read in the paper a few days ago– that they are lowering the price of oil to undermine the shale-oil industry in the US– isn’t true?

  22. Talha says:

    Thank you Mr. Shamir for tearing off the veil…

    Really, other than some of the upgrades and organization introduced to the religious grounds and locations involved in the Hajj, I can’t think of much positive influence that royal family has had on the Muslim World in modern times.

    They make it difficult to speak out against them as well since they control the Hijaz and (with impunity) can rob any Muslim of the right to perform the pillar of the Hajj based on political whim.

    I think they are going to reap the whirlwind, and maybe 15 years ago I would have welcomed anything that looked like it would help topple the Saudi regime. Years later, and millions of gallons of blood shed after removing the autocrats in Iraq, Libya and (possibly) Syria – I don’t know whether I want to look down that path with hopes…

    Sometimes…”better the devil you know…”

  23. neutral says:

    I have a simple enough question, if the Saudi dynasty is deposed, what will the country be called ?

    • Replies: @Talha
  24. Talha says:

    “Hejaz” or maybe “_ Arabia” to be filled in by some other tribal moniker or “The Country Formerly Known As Saudi Arabia” and use an icon…

    Honestly, if they fall – it won’t be one country, it will likely split up into regions or a mix of confederacies…

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  25. @5371

    Oh dear – do mean I am going to owe profuse apologies to all those who know and express more about literary buggery than I do? I shall start on the research mini thesis in the blogging diploma course.

  26. Rehmat says:

    By quoting Israeli hasbara Wikipedia you exposed your bankrupted mentality.

    The region was known as Hejaz for over 1200 year before it was named Saudi Arabia – just like Palestine became Israel after 1300 years.

    When Saudi ‘royal’ kicked out of power, they will take most of the Sheikhdoms created by the British colonists. These artificial entities including Israel would merge to their mother states like Iran, Syria, etc.

  27. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Oop! Imagine that. Two of us overconfident in our memories, though I trust I hedged a bit better.

  28. I’ve seen a number of mentions that the Saud’s have Jewish roots.
    Anybody seen anything that approaches believable evidence?

    • Replies: @Thirdeye
  29. I see in the financial news that the Saudis are contemplating an IPO of ARAMCO. No doubt a substantial part of the proceeds would stick to the hands of certain members of the royal family.

    I would not be surprised to find that many of the actions of the Saudis are those of desperate men, painfully aware that they are perched atop a volcano and making arrangements to “abdicate.”

    ABDICATION, n. An act whereby a sovereign attests his sense of the high temperature of the throne. – Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary

  30. Thirdeye says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    No, it was the poet T. S. Eliot. All doubt is removed as to what he meant by “the hollow men.”

  31. Thirdeye says:
    @Bill Jones

    Believable evidence? When did a lack of that ever stop anybody with an agenda?

  32. Art says:

    Next to the Jew tribe – the Saudi’s are the most slimy bastards on the planet. Both of them are ancient tribes who chase an evil old world agenda of return to some sick grandeur. Both tribes have their slime ball hands wrapped around America’s political elite.

    Make no mistake the first Gulf War was fought for Saudi Arabia – Saddam had them next on his list.

    Both Bushs kissed the Saudi ring – and Obama made a early trip to Saudi and bowed.

    How many US officials past and present have nice fat Swiss bank accounts filled with Saudi money.

    p.s. Both the Jew and the Arab treat women as second class citizens.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @bjondo
  33. Max Payne says:

    I actually once met a Palestinian (born and bred in Gaza) who said if a Jew or a Saudi were hanging off a ledge, he’d save the Jew and step on the Saudi’s fingers.

    “I can understand why the Jewish people are doing what they’re doing, but what’s Saudi Arabias excuse?”

    • Replies: @bjondo
  34. Avery says:

    {p.s. Both the Jew and the Arab treat women as second class citizens.}

    Can’t say about Arabs. But Muslims generally do.
    (not sure if all do: I believe most do).

    However, I find it hard to believe Jews treat their women as second class: as far as I know Jews are the only people who consider one a Jew if one’s mother is a Jew.
    Someone who has a Jewish father but a Gentile mother is not considered a Jew.
    (Jews can correct me if I am wrong).
    Everybody else is patrilineal.

    • Replies: @ghgh
  35. bjondo says:
    @Max Payne

    did you think to ask the palestinian why he wouldnt step on fingers of both jew and saud?

  36. Rehmat says:

    During October 1973 Israel’s Yom Kippur war on its Arab neighboring countries – A squadron of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) arrived in Syria to fight alongside the SAF and halt the Israeli advance over the Golan Heights. The PAF pilots Sattar Alvi and Arif Mansoor, engaged and shot down an Israeli F-4 Phantom over Egyptian airspace. Another dogfight between the PAF and IAF over Syrian airspace came to a memorable end with Pakistan obliterating the Israeli Mirage IICJ flown by M. Lutz with air-to-air missiles. This was enough to convince other Israeli fighter planes to bug out and abort all further incursions into Syria.

    Other Pakistani pilots who joined Syrian force as volunteers included future Air Marshal Nur Khan, Salem Metla, Shahbaz Khan, Wisaam Faris and Wisaam Shuja’at. Late President of Syria Hafiz Assad awarded two of the pilots country’s highest decorations for gallantry.

  37. Svigor says:

    Steve Sailer always turns into a complete drip when Thee HOLOCAUST!!! comes up (he lets people make all the idiotic proclamations they want, as long as they agree sufficiently with the Narrative – why not just ban the subject, if it’s so touchy?), so I’ll just post here instead:

    Douthat in NYT: “Merkel Must Go”

    This is from the opening of A.J.P. Taylor’s “The Course of German History.” For those of us who worry that recent events suggest the end of Western Civilization it is somewhat reassuring, in that that recent events conform to a familiar pattern, though it’s admittedly a small comfort — like knowing that a suicidal drunk has gone through a cycle like this before…:

    “The history of the Germans is the history of extremes. It contains everything except moderation, and in the course of a thousand years the Germans have experienced everything except normality…’German’ has meant at one moment a being so sentimental, so trusting, so pious, as to be too good for this world; and at another a being so brutal, so unprincipled, so degraded, as to be not fit to live. Both descriptions are true…”

    Taylor sounds like he’s writing about the Jews, who are always either being expelled from somewhere, or working on it, riding high or riding low, dramatically overbreeding resulting in mass poverty, or dramatically assimilating in a silent holocaust, being overthrown in Germany, or taking over in Russia, being oppressed by Nazis, or oppressing the Palestinians like Nazis, etc. So crazy as to be not fit to live…

    What makes the Holocaust unique is that they combined the barbarism of savages with the strong organizational, logistical and industrial skills we normally associate with advanced civilizations – no one on earth ever built a death factory like Auschwitz where raw materials (human beings) were shipped in by rail from all over Europe and efficiently converted to ashes in a matter of hours.

    Silliness. The Rwandan genocide exceeded the death rate of the Holocaust, and all the implement of choice for the Hutus was the machete.

    So why didn’t the Germans just use machetes? The Germans were not silly people and even using slave labor and confiscated wealth, building a death factory and executing on all the logistics of shipping people all over Europe in the middle of a war were not cheap or easy, so why did they do it?

    So why didn’t the Germans just use machetes?

    Shouldn’t I be asking you that question?

    The Germans were not silly people and even using slave labor and confiscated wealth, building a death factory and executing on all the logistics of shipping people all over Europe in the middle of a war were not cheap or easy, so why did they do it?

    I dunno, maybe you need to go back over your notes again.

    Well, at first the Germans just used machine guns and pistols, but nobody wanted to volunteer for the SS-Sonderkommando units which carried out the executions, and so it became a punishment for unruly soldiers.

    Impossible. There were way too many Germans out for Jewish blood for this to be true.

    The Sonderkommando units had extremely high rates of suicides and desertions. Himmler himself visited one while they carried out a mass execution and reportedly started vomiting and crying.

    So instead the Nazis created their death factories so they could carry out the mass murdering in a more clinical and detached way. Out of sight, out of mind.

    Out of their minds is more like it. Anne Frank lived in how many different camps, again? How about Eli Wiesel? I’ve lost count. That’s no way to run a Nazi Death Machine.

    If you want to kill a group efficiently, why take them off the trains at all? While they’re alive, I mean. Why not park the train cars underwater for 20 minutes or so? Much cleaner than that pesky gas. Out of sight, out of mind, too. And you don’t have to build camps. Or feed anyone, build infirmaries, etc. Right off the train and into the crematorium.

    I know, I know – the efficient Germans were too dumb to think of this. I came up with it in 5 minutes, but then I’m much smarter than all those guys hired by the German gov’t (to sit around dreaming up ways to kill Jews by the million) put together.

    That’s what they did when they invaded Russia – as soon as they had taken a town they would immediately shoot the Jewish population on the spot. The idea (I guess) was that lots of civilians get killed in the heat of battle/fog of war.

    I don’t think they built the camps to ease the conscience of the murderers. Rather, they understood even then that history would not look kindly on mass murder and it had to be done under conditions of secrecy or deniability.

    Good point. The “park the train cars underwater” thing works much better for deniability, too. And you can just drive the train to the crematorium. No pesky camps full of prisoners for witnesses or spies to see.

    But then, Germans are idiots who bumbled their way to one of the world’s least efficient killing machines, ever.

    I know you guys want to dominate the Narrative and feed us a stupid, fantastic story that insults our intelligence and is impossible to believe. And have us smile and ask for seconds. But you can’t. Your story contradicts itself too much. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. The Narrative does not reflect even modest efficiency of the Nazi Death Machine. It does not reflect a desire to simply do away with the Jews as quickly and efficiently as possible. It does not reflect a desire to simply do away with the Jews as quickly, efficiently, and secretly as possible, either.

    Stop trying to sex the story up so much, you’ll be better off that way.

    Regardless of what you think, constructing death camps actually reduced the German leaders’ plausible deniability. I mean, mass shootings could be chalked up to excesses by local commanders, but building a frigging death camp?

    This. Their story is insulting to the listener.

    This is why “the Germans went crazy” is so often the fall-back for the Narrative-Pushers; because their story is crazy.

    P.S., whatever happened to the “open” thread where people posted suggestions for articles to mirror? I looked for that to post my rude intrusion, but couldn’t find it.

    • Replies: @5371
  38. Svigor says:

    If the Germans were batshit crazy, how’d they pull off “the most efficient Death Machine in History”? If the Germans pulled off “the most efficient Death Machine in History,” how could they be batshit crazy?

    If the Germans made boneheaded mistake after boneheaded mistake, how can we say how awesome and efficient their evil was? If they were obsessed with hiding the whole thing, why’d they build death camps? If they were obsessed with efficiency, how could they be obsessed with secrecy? If they were obsessed with secrecy, how could they be obsessed with efficiency? If they were out to kill the Jews, period, why did they use so much Jewish slave labor? Feed them? Clothe them? House them? Build infirmaries in the camps?

    Obviously this story is a mess, owing entirely to its sacred cow status. It’s like if you gave the gov’t a monopoly on history, it would quickly grow bloated (from all the bureaucrats cashing in), and a complete mess, because no competition is allowed.

    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
  39. Svigor says:

    What’s the easiest way to get away with murder? Do it quickly, with no witnesses, and make sure nobody ever finds the body.

    Train cars parked underwater are perfect for this. They save you the money on building concentration camps. They save you the labor on building concentration camps. They save you the money and labor of maintaining concentration camps. They obviate the security risk of concentration camps (from escape and witnesses). All you need is a relatively simple site with a concrete depression, a sluice, and railroad tracks leading in and out. You push the cars in for twenty minutes, then you pull them back out. A whole train car killed in a half an hour. Then you drive it to the crematorium, the end. Those bone fragments aren’t from Jews, those were rebels, or anonymous war dead, or whatever. Or, hell, just dump the remains in the sea, the end. We sent the Jews to the Soviet Union.

    No need to use poison gas, which requires special facilities, and poses a serious health risk to cleanup crews, not to mention the labor and expense involved in housing people waiting to be gassed. No need to offend delicate Nazi sensibilities (LOL) by machine-gunning anyone.

    The only problem with this method is, it’s too efficient. Because the Nazis had other goals than killing Jews – even quickly, quietly, and efficiently.

  40. Svigor says:

    One minute the Germans knew with perfect clarity the enormity of what they were doing – “the world must never know. We must erase all evidence of the crime.” The next, the Germans were completely unaware of it – “we should keep them around for years, so they can give us slave labor and we can waste materiel building and maintaining camps, waste labor manning them, waste food and medicine on them during acute shortages, and we can play musical chairs shuffling Anne Frank and Eli Wiesel from camp to camp to camp to camp, and that way tons of them will survive for years in the ‘perfectly efficient Nazi Death Machine’ and live to tell the tale of our enormous crime.”

    Story’s worse than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

    It’s worth noting that more than a few orthodox Holocaust historians are not “exterminationists.” I’m not sure even a majority are.

  41. 5371 says:

    [That’s what they did when they invaded Russia – as soon as they had taken a town they would immediately shoot the Jewish population on the spot]

    Strange that they could keep on carrying out massacres of Jews in the same Ukrainian and Belorussian towns in 1942, 1943 and 1944! Did Jews grow from the soil?

  42. Svigor says:

    5371: the funny thing is that what I’m doing isn’t even “Holocaust Denial” or “Holocaust Revisionism.” I’m just taking the Orthodox Narrative being shoved in my face and telling the Narrator that his story doesn’t make sense. It’s like if someone was supposed to be telling a ghost story, but he’s telling a story about elves, and expects us to act as if it’s a ghost story.

  43. @Svigor

    Obviously this story is a mess, owing entirely to its sacred cow status.

    Maybe, or maybe just the enterprise which the story describes was a mess. Like all big programmes, especially those conducted under conditions of total war. It is probably a bit of both. I must agree that sacred cow status will never likely make an account more accurate but accounts of complicated events are always a mess.

  44. Svigor says:

    Maybe, or maybe just the enterprise which the story describes was a mess. Like all big programmes, especially those conducted under conditions of total war. It is probably a bit of both. I must agree that sacred cow status will never likely make an account more accurate but accounts of complicated events are always a mess.

    You’re conflating two very different kinds of “mess,” here. The Narrative is a mess because it’s so neat: “The Nazis created an efficient and brutal killing machine.” Obviously they didn’t. Obviously they didn’t even try.

  45. ghgh says:

    if you don’t see women in ponographic industry , they are 2nd class eh? save your 1st class sisters before talking about women

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