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Open Thread, 9/4/2016

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Parents Didn’t Just Dislike Super Nintendo 25 Years Ago—They Thought It Was a Scam. Fun fact: I stopped playing video games when I was 16. Mostly because it was taking up too much of my time. This means that I’m excluded from a lot of conversation and pop culture. So be it.

Excited to be going to ASHG 2016. Is Vancouver really part of Canada? Isn’t it like Seattle with a queen? In any case, the abstracts aren’t online yet. They should drop this week….

1584203._UY200_ The Ezra Klein podcast has a recurring question: name three books. Taking about five seconds, mine are the following: The Fall of Rome: And the End of Civilization, Principles of Population Genetics, and In Gods We Trust: The Evolutionary Landscape of Religion. The next three? Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America, The Genetical Theory Of Natural Selection, and From Dawn to Decadence, 1500 to the Present: 500 Years of Western Cultural Life.

ngs48_0187 As a change of pace I’ll be checking out Christie Wilcox’s new book, Venomous: How Earth’s Deadliest Creatures Mastered Biochemistry. It’s often joked that geneticists don’t know real biology, and despite an undergrad background in biochemistry that’s probably somewhat true for me.

Got a copy of The Dialectical Imagination: A History of the Frankfurt School and the Institute of Social Research, 1923-1950. If history is written by the winners, I figured I should get to know the winners a little better!

I was doing most of my Python object-oriented, but everyone kept telling me that I should go functional (online and offline). As I don’t have too much time, I got Treading on Python Series: Intermediate Python Programming: Learn Decorators, Generators, Functional Programming and More.

People have been talking about this for a while. Gwern did some real analysis, Embryo selection for intelligence.

How does India’s caste system work in the 21st century? Quora user hits the bull’s eye.

Using Genetic Distance to Infer the Accuracy of Genomic Prediction.

Tabs Or Spaces – One Billion Files Later An Answer. Sorry Richard, it’s all spaces all the way….

5 racist stereotypes that historically were the opposite of what they are today. Vox is doing well because they’re very cautious about challenging the preconceptions of their readers. Often they reinforce them. Too easy to deconstruct, but please note that stereotypes which might be held about Asians may not be common for certain types of Asians. This sort of banal observation is difficult to make when you are experiencing an orgasm because of the smug-saturation.

Walmart automation will eliminate 7,000 jobs.

Dissecting the genetics of complex traits using summary association statistics.

More Ancient Jomon DNA.

Steak That Sizzles on the Stovetop.

I had forgotten this was once #1 in the early 90s:

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  1. @Razib
    Thanks for bringing the Caste Quora comment to the attention of readers; first time seeing it . It sums up things pretty succinctly with no beating around the bush.

  2. 5 racist stereotypes that historically were the opposite of what they are today. Vox is doing well because they’re very cautious about challenging the preconceptions of their readers. Often they reinforce them. Too easy to deconstruct, but please note that stereotypes which might be held about Asians may not be common for certain types of Asians. This sort of banal observation is difficult to make when you are experiencing an orgasm because of the smug-saturation.

    I made the mistake of reading the linked text:

    Most of these stereotypes seem especially absurd with historical hindsight, which goes to show, again, that race isn’t biologically real.

  3. Parents Didn’t Just Dislike Super Nintendo 25 Years Ago—They Thought It Was a Scam. Fun fact: I stopped playing video games when I was 16. Mostly because it was taking up too much of my time. This means that I’m excluded from a lot of conversation and pop culture. So be it.

    Marx was wrong. Religion is not the opiate of the masses. Video games are. When I see the hours and hours of time wasted by young people (and even supposed adults) playing video games, it is both sad and baffling.

    When I see people playing shooting games or sports games, I ask them, “Why don’t you go out and do the real thing? Go do some real shooting or play actual sports. They are better for you.” I never allowed video games for my children, and they never developed an interest in them… Just like they never developed a sweet tooth (my wife and I never gave them sugary snacks – they were pretty excited with fruits).

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @gwern
    @Twinkie

    Just to point out the obvious: they don't go shooting because shooting can be comically expensive. For the cost of one outing of my family to do trap or skeet (ammo + range fees), you could buy on Steam sales and play top-rated games for the next 5 years. Another 5 years if you include the purchase price of the shotgun & gear. You might as well ask why they don't go skiing or piloting small planes or sailing.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Christopher
    @Twinkie

    I remember how as children, my brother and I along with our friends down the street would spend time outdoors in the park. Then they got a Sega Genesis and we headed inside. I remember seeing that friend about a year ago and I noticed how fat he seems to have become.

    I still follow video game news from time to time, despite not playing much at all nowadays. It seems to me that the video game industry has become more "scamy" over time. Free to play games often have psychological traps to get people to spend as much money as possible and can often come uncomfortably close to gambling. Many of these mechanisms can also be found in full price video games. Steam have as large library of games at low prices, yes, but too much of it is terrible shovelware.

    Naming 3 books, of the top of my head: Ecological Imperialism by Alfred W. Crosby, The Unfinished Empire by John Darwin and China: A History by John Keay. Thee more, How Asia Works by Joe Studwell, Code by Charles Petzold and Frozen Earth by J. D. Macdougall. Sorry if this is too scattershot and unfocused.

    Does anybody have any e-book reader recommendations? I'm thinking of getting one soon, but I'm undecided between the Nook or the Kindle, and which model I should get, other than the less expensive one.

  4. I’m always somewhat surprised when big American scientific societies hold their annual meetings in Canada. I’d think it would pose an enormous barrier for many potential attendees (those without passports, or foreign students or trainees who would need special visas).

    Vancouver is pretty crunchy-granola in many respects, and has the West Coast vibe going just like Seattle, but AFAIK Seattle is a lot more white than Vancouver. Vancouver is about 40% Asian (mix of East Asian and South Asian).

    The ethnic diversity is pretty standard for Canadian cities. What sets Vancouver apart these days is the whole housing issue (one of the most expensive housing markets, on an income-multiple basis, in the Western world). It’s all-consuming and is slowly turning the city into a kind of casino for the ultra-rich.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Joe Q.


    Vancouver is pretty crunchy-granola in many respects, and has the West Coast vibe going just like Seattle, but AFAIK Seattle is a lot more white than Vancouver. Vancouver is about 40% Asian (mix of East Asian and South Asian).
     
    "Hongcouver" was transformed when the moneyed half of Hong Kong parked its families there while the menfolk ("astronauts") remained in Hong Kong to continue make money around the time of the handover back to the PRC.

    Seattle has always been a substantially Asian-, especially Japanese-, influenced city (it was also the old hangout of Bruce Lee and he was buried there), and its largest minority population has been Asian rather than Hispanic or black. But, unlike Vancouver, Seattle's Asian population has been heavily assimilated rather than "fresh off the boat." Hence, Seattle has more white-Asian intermarriages and worse Asian (Chinese and Indian) food than Vancouver. The latter also has much better Persian food.

    Although Seattle has become whiter of late, the surrounding business suburbs, including Bellevue and Redmond have become heavily Asian (especially Indian) due to the whole tech industry/H1B visa phenomenon. Issaquah, for example, used to be a sleepy "boonies" town with almost exclusively white residents, but now is close to 20% Asian.

    Both Seattle and Vancouver areas had their own character once, but they sadly seem to be transforming into NorCal-lites.

    Replies: @Joe Q., @Jefferson

  5. What podcasts do you listen to?

    • Replies: @Razib Khan
    @marginalrealist

    *Planet Money* *BHTV* *On Point* *In Our Time* *KERA Think* *Marketplace* *From Our Own Correspondent* *Here and Now* *Slate Money*

  6. @marginalrealist
    What podcasts do you listen to?

    Replies: @Razib Khan

    *Planet Money* *BHTV* *On Point* *In Our Time* *KERA Think* *Marketplace* *From Our Own Correspondent* *Here and Now* *Slate Money*

  7. The Ezra Klein podcast has a recurring question: name three books. Taking about five seconds, mine are the following: The Fall of Rome: And the End of Civilization, Principles of Population Genetics, and In Gods We Trust: The Evolutionary Landscape of Religion. The next three? Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America, The Genetical Theory Of Natural Selection, and From Dawn to Decadence, 1500 to the Present: 500 Years of Western Cultural Life.

    Taking five seconds, my picks are: The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life , War Before Civilization: the Myth of the Peaceful Savage, and Reflections on the Revolution in France

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @syonredux


    Taking five seconds, my picks are: The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life , War Before Civilization: the Myth of the Peaceful Savage, and Reflections on the Revolution in France
     
    We have one book in common!

    1. The Bible
    2. The Art of War
    3. Nicomachean Ethics
    4. Reflections on the Revolution in France
    5. Dune*

    *Although I liked the first book of the series the most at first, now I appreciate the second and third installments more - especially the idea about a society being "afflicted" or cursed with a hero-figure as well as the notion that prescience (or perfect knowledge) being so oppressive to humanity that it must disperse beyond such knowledge in order to stave off stagnation and survive unexpected dangers of the future.

    Replies: @Razib Khan

  8. @Joe Q.
    I'm always somewhat surprised when big American scientific societies hold their annual meetings in Canada. I'd think it would pose an enormous barrier for many potential attendees (those without passports, or foreign students or trainees who would need special visas).

    Vancouver is pretty crunchy-granola in many respects, and has the West Coast vibe going just like Seattle, but AFAIK Seattle is a lot more white than Vancouver. Vancouver is about 40% Asian (mix of East Asian and South Asian).

    The ethnic diversity is pretty standard for Canadian cities. What sets Vancouver apart these days is the whole housing issue (one of the most expensive housing markets, on an income-multiple basis, in the Western world). It's all-consuming and is slowly turning the city into a kind of casino for the ultra-rich.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Vancouver is pretty crunchy-granola in many respects, and has the West Coast vibe going just like Seattle, but AFAIK Seattle is a lot more white than Vancouver. Vancouver is about 40% Asian (mix of East Asian and South Asian).

    “Hongcouver” was transformed when the moneyed half of Hong Kong parked its families there while the menfolk (“astronauts”) remained in Hong Kong to continue make money around the time of the handover back to the PRC.

    Seattle has always been a substantially Asian-, especially Japanese-, influenced city (it was also the old hangout of Bruce Lee and he was buried there), and its largest minority population has been Asian rather than Hispanic or black. But, unlike Vancouver, Seattle’s Asian population has been heavily assimilated rather than “fresh off the boat.” Hence, Seattle has more white-Asian intermarriages and worse Asian (Chinese and Indian) food than Vancouver. The latter also has much better Persian food.

    Although Seattle has become whiter of late, the surrounding business suburbs, including Bellevue and Redmond have become heavily Asian (especially Indian) due to the whole tech industry/H1B visa phenomenon. Issaquah, for example, used to be a sleepy “boonies” town with almost exclusively white residents, but now is close to 20% Asian.

    Both Seattle and Vancouver areas had their own character once, but they sadly seem to be transforming into NorCal-lites.

    • Replies: @Joe Q.
    @Twinkie

    Yes, the "astronaut" effect in the 1990s was hugely influential, but Vancouver had an enormous Asian character before that -- lots of Japanese, Chinese and Indian immigration, some of which has been fairly well assimilated.

    "Astronaut" phenomena are still hugely influential, but in this case the newcomers are from the PRC (no Commonwealth advantage). Vancouver has plenty of five- and six-bedroom homes (sitting on the site of former 1950s two-storeys) occupied by single 18-year-old, Bentley-driving UBC students. This is the modern story of the city. It may be "NorCal-Lite" in some respects, but Vancouver has only a small tech industry -- its economy is based on real estate, international shipping, and (to some extent) the drug trade.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Jefferson
    @Twinkie

    But, unlike Vancouver, Seattle’s Asian population has been heavily assimilated"

    Seattle's Asian population is not heavily assimilated. Asians don't assimilate in any city where they make up double digit percentage of the population. Seattle is 13 percent Asian.

    If it was up to me all of America would have Florida level low percentage of Asians.

    No city is Florida is above 3 percent Asian. Cities in Florida range from less than 1 percent Asian to no more than 3 percent Asian.

    Seattle is way too Asian for a Western city.

  9. @syonredux

    The Ezra Klein podcast has a recurring question: name three books. Taking about five seconds, mine are the following: The Fall of Rome: And the End of Civilization, Principles of Population Genetics, and In Gods We Trust: The Evolutionary Landscape of Religion. The next three? Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America, The Genetical Theory Of Natural Selection, and From Dawn to Decadence, 1500 to the Present: 500 Years of Western Cultural Life.
     
    Taking five seconds, my picks are: The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life , War Before Civilization: the Myth of the Peaceful Savage, and Reflections on the Revolution in France

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Taking five seconds, my picks are: The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life , War Before Civilization: the Myth of the Peaceful Savage, and Reflections on the Revolution in France

    We have one book in common!

    1. The Bible
    2. The Art of War
    3. Nicomachean Ethics
    4. Reflections on the Revolution in France
    5. Dune*

    *Although I liked the first book of the series the most at first, now I appreciate the second and third installments more – especially the idea about a society being “afflicted” or cursed with a hero-figure as well as the notion that prescience (or perfect knowledge) being so oppressive to humanity that it must disperse beyond such knowledge in order to stave off stagnation and survive unexpected dangers of the future.

    • Replies: @Razib Khan
    @Twinkie

    1) the bible is such an uneven book. i've read genesis dozens of times. in contrast, leviticus a lot less.

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Robert Ford, @Twinkie, @Thursday

  10. @Twinkie
    @syonredux


    Taking five seconds, my picks are: The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life , War Before Civilization: the Myth of the Peaceful Savage, and Reflections on the Revolution in France
     
    We have one book in common!

    1. The Bible
    2. The Art of War
    3. Nicomachean Ethics
    4. Reflections on the Revolution in France
    5. Dune*

    *Although I liked the first book of the series the most at first, now I appreciate the second and third installments more - especially the idea about a society being "afflicted" or cursed with a hero-figure as well as the notion that prescience (or perfect knowledge) being so oppressive to humanity that it must disperse beyond such knowledge in order to stave off stagnation and survive unexpected dangers of the future.

    Replies: @Razib Khan

    1) the bible is such an uneven book. i’ve read genesis dozens of times. in contrast, leviticus a lot less.

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Razib Khan


    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.
     
    Haven't looked at the Dune series since High School, but your recollections pretty much match mine in terms of quality decline.

    For my money, Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld series is probably the best example of complete collapse. Indeed, I typically advise people to not bother with any of the books after To Your Scattered Bodies Go (the first book in the series)
    , @Robert Ford
    @Razib Khan

    yeah, but did you know this? http://imgur.com/B5O8WD5

    , @Twinkie
    @Razib Khan


    1) the bible is such an uneven book. i’ve read genesis dozens of times. in contrast, leviticus a lot less.
     
    I'd like to think that the Bible offers a great diversity of reads. There is the whole teleological aspect of the Creation and the Apocalypse, of Genesis and the Revelations. There is great history of the very ancient peoples as well as that of the Age of the Koine Greek. There is the beautiful poetry and melody of the Psalms. There are timeless moral directives as well as the apologia of the Epistles. Then, of course, there is the revolutionary theology of Christ, God made Man... and the universal redemption through His Sacrifice.

    In the Bible, there is something for everyone.

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.
     
    When I was younger, I reveled in the revenge and heroism of the first book. The second and third books were disappointments after the crescendo of the first book, climaxing in the triumph of Paul Muad'Dib (and the restoration of the Atreides). A grand happy ending, if you will.

    When I got older, however, I began to think that the first book was a bit of a trap. It seemed like the true message of the author lied in books two and three - that heroes are seductive and bring enormous instability and destruction in their wake (and eventually oppression) instead of a promised land and that perfect knowledge is the death of mankind.
    , @Thursday
    @Razib Khan

    Leviticus is a dry legal text. However, interpreted by an insightful scholar, it has a lot of anthropological interest. Mary Douglas' Purity and Danger is best on the purity codes, while James B. Jordan and Peter Leithart are good on the temple stuff.

    But, yeah, you might want to mostly stick with the secondary lit here.

    ----

    Good summary of Douglas.

    Replies: @benjaminl

  11. @Twinkie
    @Joe Q.


    Vancouver is pretty crunchy-granola in many respects, and has the West Coast vibe going just like Seattle, but AFAIK Seattle is a lot more white than Vancouver. Vancouver is about 40% Asian (mix of East Asian and South Asian).
     
    "Hongcouver" was transformed when the moneyed half of Hong Kong parked its families there while the menfolk ("astronauts") remained in Hong Kong to continue make money around the time of the handover back to the PRC.

    Seattle has always been a substantially Asian-, especially Japanese-, influenced city (it was also the old hangout of Bruce Lee and he was buried there), and its largest minority population has been Asian rather than Hispanic or black. But, unlike Vancouver, Seattle's Asian population has been heavily assimilated rather than "fresh off the boat." Hence, Seattle has more white-Asian intermarriages and worse Asian (Chinese and Indian) food than Vancouver. The latter also has much better Persian food.

    Although Seattle has become whiter of late, the surrounding business suburbs, including Bellevue and Redmond have become heavily Asian (especially Indian) due to the whole tech industry/H1B visa phenomenon. Issaquah, for example, used to be a sleepy "boonies" town with almost exclusively white residents, but now is close to 20% Asian.

    Both Seattle and Vancouver areas had their own character once, but they sadly seem to be transforming into NorCal-lites.

    Replies: @Joe Q., @Jefferson

    Yes, the “astronaut” effect in the 1990s was hugely influential, but Vancouver had an enormous Asian character before that — lots of Japanese, Chinese and Indian immigration, some of which has been fairly well assimilated.

    “Astronaut” phenomena are still hugely influential, but in this case the newcomers are from the PRC (no Commonwealth advantage). Vancouver has plenty of five- and six-bedroom homes (sitting on the site of former 1950s two-storeys) occupied by single 18-year-old, Bentley-driving UBC students. This is the modern story of the city. It may be “NorCal-Lite” in some respects, but Vancouver has only a small tech industry — its economy is based on real estate, international shipping, and (to some extent) the drug trade.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Joe Q.


    It may be “NorCal-Lite” in some respects, but Vancouver has only a small tech industry — its economy is based on real estate, international shipping, and (to some extent) the drug trade.
     
    That's a good point. Vancouver is rather conspicuous in its lack of self-supporting industry. A lot of (white) Canadians move to Seattle to work despite the fact that they miss Vancouver. In that sense, Vancouver seems like a giant real estate bubble ready to burst. I don't think the burst will happen anytime soon, however, as there continues to be fresh money being minted in China that needs to be parked somewhere.

    Replies: @Thursday

  12. @Razib Khan
    @Twinkie

    1) the bible is such an uneven book. i've read genesis dozens of times. in contrast, leviticus a lot less.

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Robert Ford, @Twinkie, @Thursday

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.

    Haven’t looked at the Dune series since High School, but your recollections pretty much match mine in terms of quality decline.

    For my money, Philip Jose Farmer’s Riverworld series is probably the best example of complete collapse. Indeed, I typically advise people to not bother with any of the books after To Your Scattered Bodies Go (the first book in the series)

  13. @Twinkie

    Parents Didn’t Just Dislike Super Nintendo 25 Years Ago—They Thought It Was a Scam. Fun fact: I stopped playing video games when I was 16. Mostly because it was taking up too much of my time. This means that I’m excluded from a lot of conversation and pop culture. So be it.
     
    Marx was wrong. Religion is not the opiate of the masses. Video games are. When I see the hours and hours of time wasted by young people (and even supposed adults) playing video games, it is both sad and baffling.

    When I see people playing shooting games or sports games, I ask them, "Why don't you go out and do the real thing? Go do some real shooting or play actual sports. They are better for you." I never allowed video games for my children, and they never developed an interest in them... Just like they never developed a sweet tooth (my wife and I never gave them sugary snacks - they were pretty excited with fruits).

    Replies: @gwern, @Christopher

    Just to point out the obvious: they don’t go shooting because shooting can be comically expensive. For the cost of one outing of my family to do trap or skeet (ammo + range fees), you could buy on Steam sales and play top-rated games for the next 5 years. Another 5 years if you include the purchase price of the shotgun & gear. You might as well ask why they don’t go skiing or piloting small planes or sailing.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @gwern


    Just to point out the obvious: they don’t go shooting because shooting can be comically expensive.
     
    "Can" is the operative word here.

    For the cost of one outing of my family to do trap or skeet (ammo + range fees), you could buy on Steam sales and play top-rated games for the next 5 years. Another 5 years if you include the purchase price of the shotgun & gear. You might as well ask why they don’t go skiing or piloting small planes or sailing.
     
    Shooting can be as luxurious or inexpensive as you wish to make it. You could certainly buy $10,000-$100,000 Italian or English double shotguns, if you were so inclined and possessed the requisite funds. Or you could buy a clean, used Browning Buckmark or Ruger Mk III for $200, plus $35-50 for a 550 round brick of 22 LR ammo. And go plink at some cans or bottles at a nearby state DNR-managed shooting range for free. Either way, the real thing is more exciting and productive (and healthier) than staring at a fast moving LED screen in a dark room, zombie-like, while furiously punching a little button or two.

    One could, even, go hunt a rabbit or another small game with the said 22LR pistol and a few rounds, and learn to field dress and eat it. And teach your children, if you had any, of how our ancestors survived in the wild.
  14. Some Vancouver advice, from someone whose spent significant time there:

    1. Since yours will likely be a short visit, the only two attractions you really need to see in Vancouver are:
    a. The UBC Anthropology Museum – Unfortunately it is a bit out of the way on the UBC campus, but worth cabbing it. The major attractions are the totem poles and NW Native art. Make sure to go outside to look at the village and make sure to find Bill Reid’s Raven and the First Men statue. You will probably want to ignore the rest. If you can’t make it to that, there is the small Bill Reid Museum downtown. Reid was the major figure in the revival of Haida art. There is also one of his best statues at the Vancouver airport which is worth taking the time to find.
    b. The Aquarium – A short bus ride from the convention centre. There is another Bill Reid statue in front of it. (You’ll notice I’m pushing the Bill Reid stuff, but he’s worth it.)
    Don’t bother trying to see anything else on a short trip.

    2. The scenery is great. Vancouver has the best physical setting of any city I’ve ever seen. The conference centre is right on the harbour, so take some time to walk down and have a look. Mahony and Sons is a good pub right and Cactus Club is a good chain restaurant, both right by the convention centre and right on the water. Mahony has great views. Bring a light jacket so you can sit outside.
    2a. If you want more scenery, and some exercise, walk the Seawall around Stanley Park. You can also rent bikes and stuff. It’s a short bus ride from the convention centre.

    3. Vancouver has a lot of great Asian and East Indian food. Tojos is a famous sushi restaurant if you want to drop some cash (worth it), and Vij’s is good for Indian. Unfortunately, both are off the downtown peninsula where the convention centre is, but there are good options downtown too, which you can find on Yelp/Trip Advisor/Zomato. If you like good food, it’s worth taking the time there.
    3a. If you want unique Vancouver food, like smoked salmon, I would just go to the big Olympic Village Whole Foods Broadway and Cambie. It’s right on the Skytrain line. The double smoked salmon there is amazing. I also like to get the (regular) smoked salmon wrap there at the deli (often sold out after meal rush).

    4. Vancouver definitely feels less American than Seattle or Portland. For one thing, it is way more non-white than either of those. There are lot of Asians and East Indians. Seattle actually has a noticable number of black people, which you don’t see in Vancouver.

    5. If you’re in need of necessities, Shopper’s Drug Mart is the best place to get everything you need, including small snacks. There is one not far from the convention centre.

    6. Public transit is pretty decent. But for longer trips you might just want to take a cab.

    • Replies: @Thursday
    @Thursday

    6a. But do take the Skytrain in from the Airport.

    , @syonredux
    @Thursday

    RE:Bill Reid,

    Not a fan, I'm afraid. I find his work rather tedious. Of course, I'm an Anglo with Eurocentric tastes.


    Vancouver definitely feels less American than Seattle or Portland. For one thing, it is way more non-white than either of those. There are lot of Asians and East Indians.
     
    Been to all three for substantial periods of time. As you say, the biggest difference was the huge East Asian population.Made it feel oddly like Hawaii.
    , @Twinkie
    @Thursday


    2. The scenery is great. Vancouver has the best physical setting of any city I’ve ever seen.
     
    This I agree. It is one of the most physically beautiful cities in the world. I know some folks who own homes in the area with INCREDIBLE views - I know the word "incredible" is used much too often, but in these cases, they are really justified. And I've been around the world a few times. What Vancouver lacks in the elegance of, say, Lake Como, it more than makes up in the seemless meld of gorgeous nature and the whole city-of-the-future vibe. No wonder so many science fictions films and TV series are filmed there (well, the conscious decision to attract Hollywood didn't hurt either).

    The North American Pacific Northwest, in general, has some of the most gorgeous scenery - almost Scandinavian-seeming cities on the cusp of verdant mountains and water with a very mild climate.

    If I didn't have children and didn't care about culture & politics, I'd split my year between Vancouver and Santa Fe.
    , @AP
    @Thursday

    As others have noted, Vancouver is a gorgeous city, a perfect vision of the 22nd century as imagined in the 20th, set in absolutely spectacular scenery, generally clean, safe, with the best sushi in North America.

    One jarring and surprising, and negative, aspect, however - the massive junkie neighborhood east of downtown past the Gaslight district toward Chinatown. I decided to take my family for a walk from our our hotel by Stanley Park to Chinatown during the afternoon, and we ended up in what looked like a scene from the Walking Dead...

    Replies: @Thursday, @Twinkie

  15. @Thursday
    Some Vancouver advice, from someone whose spent significant time there:

    1. Since yours will likely be a short visit, the only two attractions you really need to see in Vancouver are:
    a. The UBC Anthropology Museum - Unfortunately it is a bit out of the way on the UBC campus, but worth cabbing it. The major attractions are the totem poles and NW Native art. Make sure to go outside to look at the village and make sure to find Bill Reid's Raven and the First Men statue. You will probably want to ignore the rest. If you can't make it to that, there is the small Bill Reid Museum downtown. Reid was the major figure in the revival of Haida art. There is also one of his best statues at the Vancouver airport which is worth taking the time to find.
    b. The Aquarium - A short bus ride from the convention centre. There is another Bill Reid statue in front of it. (You'll notice I'm pushing the Bill Reid stuff, but he's worth it.)
    Don't bother trying to see anything else on a short trip.

    2. The scenery is great. Vancouver has the best physical setting of any city I've ever seen. The conference centre is right on the harbour, so take some time to walk down and have a look. Mahony and Sons is a good pub right and Cactus Club is a good chain restaurant, both right by the convention centre and right on the water. Mahony has great views. Bring a light jacket so you can sit outside.
    2a. If you want more scenery, and some exercise, walk the Seawall around Stanley Park. You can also rent bikes and stuff. It's a short bus ride from the convention centre.

    3. Vancouver has a lot of great Asian and East Indian food. Tojos is a famous sushi restaurant if you want to drop some cash (worth it), and Vij's is good for Indian. Unfortunately, both are off the downtown peninsula where the convention centre is, but there are good options downtown too, which you can find on Yelp/Trip Advisor/Zomato. If you like good food, it's worth taking the time there.
    3a. If you want unique Vancouver food, like smoked salmon, I would just go to the big Olympic Village Whole Foods Broadway and Cambie. It's right on the Skytrain line. The double smoked salmon there is amazing. I also like to get the (regular) smoked salmon wrap there at the deli (often sold out after meal rush).

    4. Vancouver definitely feels less American than Seattle or Portland. For one thing, it is way more non-white than either of those. There are lot of Asians and East Indians. Seattle actually has a noticable number of black people, which you don't see in Vancouver.

    5. If you're in need of necessities, Shopper's Drug Mart is the best place to get everything you need, including small snacks. There is one not far from the convention centre.

    6. Public transit is pretty decent. But for longer trips you might just want to take a cab.

    Replies: @Thursday, @syonredux, @Twinkie, @AP

    6a. But do take the Skytrain in from the Airport.

  16. @Thursday
    Some Vancouver advice, from someone whose spent significant time there:

    1. Since yours will likely be a short visit, the only two attractions you really need to see in Vancouver are:
    a. The UBC Anthropology Museum - Unfortunately it is a bit out of the way on the UBC campus, but worth cabbing it. The major attractions are the totem poles and NW Native art. Make sure to go outside to look at the village and make sure to find Bill Reid's Raven and the First Men statue. You will probably want to ignore the rest. If you can't make it to that, there is the small Bill Reid Museum downtown. Reid was the major figure in the revival of Haida art. There is also one of his best statues at the Vancouver airport which is worth taking the time to find.
    b. The Aquarium - A short bus ride from the convention centre. There is another Bill Reid statue in front of it. (You'll notice I'm pushing the Bill Reid stuff, but he's worth it.)
    Don't bother trying to see anything else on a short trip.

    2. The scenery is great. Vancouver has the best physical setting of any city I've ever seen. The conference centre is right on the harbour, so take some time to walk down and have a look. Mahony and Sons is a good pub right and Cactus Club is a good chain restaurant, both right by the convention centre and right on the water. Mahony has great views. Bring a light jacket so you can sit outside.
    2a. If you want more scenery, and some exercise, walk the Seawall around Stanley Park. You can also rent bikes and stuff. It's a short bus ride from the convention centre.

    3. Vancouver has a lot of great Asian and East Indian food. Tojos is a famous sushi restaurant if you want to drop some cash (worth it), and Vij's is good for Indian. Unfortunately, both are off the downtown peninsula where the convention centre is, but there are good options downtown too, which you can find on Yelp/Trip Advisor/Zomato. If you like good food, it's worth taking the time there.
    3a. If you want unique Vancouver food, like smoked salmon, I would just go to the big Olympic Village Whole Foods Broadway and Cambie. It's right on the Skytrain line. The double smoked salmon there is amazing. I also like to get the (regular) smoked salmon wrap there at the deli (often sold out after meal rush).

    4. Vancouver definitely feels less American than Seattle or Portland. For one thing, it is way more non-white than either of those. There are lot of Asians and East Indians. Seattle actually has a noticable number of black people, which you don't see in Vancouver.

    5. If you're in need of necessities, Shopper's Drug Mart is the best place to get everything you need, including small snacks. There is one not far from the convention centre.

    6. Public transit is pretty decent. But for longer trips you might just want to take a cab.

    Replies: @Thursday, @syonredux, @Twinkie, @AP

    RE:Bill Reid,

    Not a fan, I’m afraid. I find his work rather tedious. Of course, I’m an Anglo with Eurocentric tastes.

    Vancouver definitely feels less American than Seattle or Portland. For one thing, it is way more non-white than either of those. There are lot of Asians and East Indians.

    Been to all three for substantial periods of time. As you say, the biggest difference was the huge East Asian population.Made it feel oddly like Hawaii.

  17. i’ve been reading up on how to convince people to leave a cult so I can use the methods on SJWs. sadly, i’m actually being sincere.

  18. @Razib Khan
    @Twinkie

    1) the bible is such an uneven book. i've read genesis dozens of times. in contrast, leviticus a lot less.

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Robert Ford, @Twinkie, @Thursday

    yeah, but did you know this? http://imgur.com/B5O8WD5

  19. @Razib Khan
    @Twinkie

    1) the bible is such an uneven book. i've read genesis dozens of times. in contrast, leviticus a lot less.

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Robert Ford, @Twinkie, @Thursday

    1) the bible is such an uneven book. i’ve read genesis dozens of times. in contrast, leviticus a lot less.

    I’d like to think that the Bible offers a great diversity of reads. There is the whole teleological aspect of the Creation and the Apocalypse, of Genesis and the Revelations. There is great history of the very ancient peoples as well as that of the Age of the Koine Greek. There is the beautiful poetry and melody of the Psalms. There are timeless moral directives as well as the apologia of the Epistles. Then, of course, there is the revolutionary theology of Christ, God made Man… and the universal redemption through His Sacrifice.

    In the Bible, there is something for everyone.

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.

    When I was younger, I reveled in the revenge and heroism of the first book. The second and third books were disappointments after the crescendo of the first book, climaxing in the triumph of Paul Muad’Dib (and the restoration of the Atreides). A grand happy ending, if you will.

    When I got older, however, I began to think that the first book was a bit of a trap. It seemed like the true message of the author lied in books two and three – that heroes are seductive and bring enormous instability and destruction in their wake (and eventually oppression) instead of a promised land and that perfect knowledge is the death of mankind.

  20. @Joe Q.
    @Twinkie

    Yes, the "astronaut" effect in the 1990s was hugely influential, but Vancouver had an enormous Asian character before that -- lots of Japanese, Chinese and Indian immigration, some of which has been fairly well assimilated.

    "Astronaut" phenomena are still hugely influential, but in this case the newcomers are from the PRC (no Commonwealth advantage). Vancouver has plenty of five- and six-bedroom homes (sitting on the site of former 1950s two-storeys) occupied by single 18-year-old, Bentley-driving UBC students. This is the modern story of the city. It may be "NorCal-Lite" in some respects, but Vancouver has only a small tech industry -- its economy is based on real estate, international shipping, and (to some extent) the drug trade.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    It may be “NorCal-Lite” in some respects, but Vancouver has only a small tech industry — its economy is based on real estate, international shipping, and (to some extent) the drug trade.

    That’s a good point. Vancouver is rather conspicuous in its lack of self-supporting industry. A lot of (white) Canadians move to Seattle to work despite the fact that they miss Vancouver. In that sense, Vancouver seems like a giant real estate bubble ready to burst. I don’t think the burst will happen anytime soon, however, as there continues to be fresh money being minted in China that needs to be parked somewhere.

    • Replies: @Thursday
    @Twinkie

    BC, and Western Canada in general, have a lot of natural resources. A lot of those go out through the port, which is the largest in Canada. A lot of those resource companies have their headquarters in the city, along with all the lawyers and accountants needed to support them. Lower BC is pretty much the only part of Canada that doesn't have bad winters, so the Fraser Valley, and to a lesser extent the Okanagan Valley, despite their small size, end up supplying a lot of food to the rest of the country. Tourism is big too, as it is the most beautiful part of the country.

    But, yeah, the economy is being propped up by Asian investments in real estate etc. If you want to live there, you need mucho buckos.

    -----

    You'd never guess to look at it now, but Vancouver has a big blue collar, lumberjack-y history. Unions used to be huge, and clashed politically with the libertarian-ish types that also made their way out to the coast. Add in some fundamentalist Christian farmers from the FV and Okanagan, and the politics of the place has been really interesting.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Christopher

  21. @Thursday
    Some Vancouver advice, from someone whose spent significant time there:

    1. Since yours will likely be a short visit, the only two attractions you really need to see in Vancouver are:
    a. The UBC Anthropology Museum - Unfortunately it is a bit out of the way on the UBC campus, but worth cabbing it. The major attractions are the totem poles and NW Native art. Make sure to go outside to look at the village and make sure to find Bill Reid's Raven and the First Men statue. You will probably want to ignore the rest. If you can't make it to that, there is the small Bill Reid Museum downtown. Reid was the major figure in the revival of Haida art. There is also one of his best statues at the Vancouver airport which is worth taking the time to find.
    b. The Aquarium - A short bus ride from the convention centre. There is another Bill Reid statue in front of it. (You'll notice I'm pushing the Bill Reid stuff, but he's worth it.)
    Don't bother trying to see anything else on a short trip.

    2. The scenery is great. Vancouver has the best physical setting of any city I've ever seen. The conference centre is right on the harbour, so take some time to walk down and have a look. Mahony and Sons is a good pub right and Cactus Club is a good chain restaurant, both right by the convention centre and right on the water. Mahony has great views. Bring a light jacket so you can sit outside.
    2a. If you want more scenery, and some exercise, walk the Seawall around Stanley Park. You can also rent bikes and stuff. It's a short bus ride from the convention centre.

    3. Vancouver has a lot of great Asian and East Indian food. Tojos is a famous sushi restaurant if you want to drop some cash (worth it), and Vij's is good for Indian. Unfortunately, both are off the downtown peninsula where the convention centre is, but there are good options downtown too, which you can find on Yelp/Trip Advisor/Zomato. If you like good food, it's worth taking the time there.
    3a. If you want unique Vancouver food, like smoked salmon, I would just go to the big Olympic Village Whole Foods Broadway and Cambie. It's right on the Skytrain line. The double smoked salmon there is amazing. I also like to get the (regular) smoked salmon wrap there at the deli (often sold out after meal rush).

    4. Vancouver definitely feels less American than Seattle or Portland. For one thing, it is way more non-white than either of those. There are lot of Asians and East Indians. Seattle actually has a noticable number of black people, which you don't see in Vancouver.

    5. If you're in need of necessities, Shopper's Drug Mart is the best place to get everything you need, including small snacks. There is one not far from the convention centre.

    6. Public transit is pretty decent. But for longer trips you might just want to take a cab.

    Replies: @Thursday, @syonredux, @Twinkie, @AP

    2. The scenery is great. Vancouver has the best physical setting of any city I’ve ever seen.

    This I agree. It is one of the most physically beautiful cities in the world. I know some folks who own homes in the area with INCREDIBLE views – I know the word “incredible” is used much too often, but in these cases, they are really justified. And I’ve been around the world a few times. What Vancouver lacks in the elegance of, say, Lake Como, it more than makes up in the seemless meld of gorgeous nature and the whole city-of-the-future vibe. No wonder so many science fictions films and TV series are filmed there (well, the conscious decision to attract Hollywood didn’t hurt either).

    The North American Pacific Northwest, in general, has some of the most gorgeous scenery – almost Scandinavian-seeming cities on the cusp of verdant mountains and water with a very mild climate.

    If I didn’t have children and didn’t care about culture & politics, I’d split my year between Vancouver and Santa Fe.

  22. @gwern
    @Twinkie

    Just to point out the obvious: they don't go shooting because shooting can be comically expensive. For the cost of one outing of my family to do trap or skeet (ammo + range fees), you could buy on Steam sales and play top-rated games for the next 5 years. Another 5 years if you include the purchase price of the shotgun & gear. You might as well ask why they don't go skiing or piloting small planes or sailing.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Just to point out the obvious: they don’t go shooting because shooting can be comically expensive.

    “Can” is the operative word here.

    For the cost of one outing of my family to do trap or skeet (ammo + range fees), you could buy on Steam sales and play top-rated games for the next 5 years. Another 5 years if you include the purchase price of the shotgun & gear. You might as well ask why they don’t go skiing or piloting small planes or sailing.

    Shooting can be as luxurious or inexpensive as you wish to make it. You could certainly buy $10,000-$100,000 Italian or English double shotguns, if you were so inclined and possessed the requisite funds. Or you could buy a clean, used Browning Buckmark or Ruger Mk III for $200, plus $35-50 for a 550 round brick of 22 LR ammo. And go plink at some cans or bottles at a nearby state DNR-managed shooting range for free. Either way, the real thing is more exciting and productive (and healthier) than staring at a fast moving LED screen in a dark room, zombie-like, while furiously punching a little button or two.

    One could, even, go hunt a rabbit or another small game with the said 22LR pistol and a few rounds, and learn to field dress and eat it. And teach your children, if you had any, of how our ancestors survived in the wild.

  23. Vox seems to be challenging liberal priors here. The case is pretty straightforward – support for social democracy and open borders are pretty much mutually exclusive. This wasn’t clear during the “American exceptionalism” period, when America experienced mass immigration and had a weak economic left. But it’s much more clear now as European countries are turning to right-leaning populism as they become more ethnically diverse. Indeed, one wonders in retrospect if one of the reasons for the rise of the U.S. labor movement in the mid 1930s was that well over a decade had passed since the end of mass immigration to the U.S., which gave immigrants time to acculturate and for native-born workers to develop cross-ethnic solidarity with the relative newcomers.

  24. @Twinkie
    @Joe Q.


    It may be “NorCal-Lite” in some respects, but Vancouver has only a small tech industry — its economy is based on real estate, international shipping, and (to some extent) the drug trade.
     
    That's a good point. Vancouver is rather conspicuous in its lack of self-supporting industry. A lot of (white) Canadians move to Seattle to work despite the fact that they miss Vancouver. In that sense, Vancouver seems like a giant real estate bubble ready to burst. I don't think the burst will happen anytime soon, however, as there continues to be fresh money being minted in China that needs to be parked somewhere.

    Replies: @Thursday

    BC, and Western Canada in general, have a lot of natural resources. A lot of those go out through the port, which is the largest in Canada. A lot of those resource companies have their headquarters in the city, along with all the lawyers and accountants needed to support them. Lower BC is pretty much the only part of Canada that doesn’t have bad winters, so the Fraser Valley, and to a lesser extent the Okanagan Valley, despite their small size, end up supplying a lot of food to the rest of the country. Tourism is big too, as it is the most beautiful part of the country.

    But, yeah, the economy is being propped up by Asian investments in real estate etc. If you want to live there, you need mucho buckos.

    —–

    You’d never guess to look at it now, but Vancouver has a big blue collar, lumberjack-y history. Unions used to be huge, and clashed politically with the libertarian-ish types that also made their way out to the coast. Add in some fundamentalist Christian farmers from the FV and Okanagan, and the politics of the place has been really interesting.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Thursday


    You’d never guess to look at it now, but Vancouver has a big blue collar, lumberjack-y history. Unions used to be huge, and clashed politically with the libertarian-ish types that also made their way out to the coast. Add in some fundamentalist Christian farmers from the FV and Okanagan, and the politics of the place has been really interesting.
     
    Seattle was very similar. Between the logging industry and Boeing and shipyards, Seattle was once considered a blue collar "cow town." At one point around the early 70's, its declining industry was so maligned (and unemployment so high) that there was a billboard that stated "Will the last person to leave Seattle - please turn off the lights?"

    Look at it now. The tech industry, hipsters, tourists, etc. I know a house on a very desirable neighborhood of Seattle that overlooks the whole city and the water that was about $200,000 or so in the '80's. It's probably costs around $10 million now, if the owners were willing to sell, that is.
    , @Christopher
    @Thursday

    In August, the average home price dropped sharply from $1.8 million to $1.47 million. So maybe we're seeing the beginnings of the end?

    Even with those economic activities, I don't think the lower Mainland has enough economic activity to justify the prices. I'm not a good economist at all, but I do understand how this is the product of stimulus spending, both in the West and China, that was syphoned off in various ways legal and not so legal, and poured into real estate bubble like Vancouver, Toronto, etc. Which, sooner or later, burst. To paraphrase a famous video game quote(!), bubbles never change.


    You’d never guess to look at it now, but Vancouver has a big blue collar, lumberjack-y history. Unions used to be huge, and clashed politically with the libertarian-ish types that also made their way out to the coast. Add in some fundamentalist Christian farmers from the FV and Okanagan, and the politics of the place has been really interesting.
     
    I think all of the Pacific Coast is like that. Joel Garreau divided those states and British Columbia between the "nations" of coastal 'Ecotopia', with its hippy-ish leftist politics and the 'Empty Quarter', with its conservative and anti-federal politics. A history of BC noted that the lack of farmable land means that BC didn't have a large group of family farmers, but it did have a large class of labourers in the mining and forestry sectors. Thus, there's a large tradition of radical unionism, its conservative reaction and a deep and bitter history of antagonism between the two.
  25. @Thursday
    Some Vancouver advice, from someone whose spent significant time there:

    1. Since yours will likely be a short visit, the only two attractions you really need to see in Vancouver are:
    a. The UBC Anthropology Museum - Unfortunately it is a bit out of the way on the UBC campus, but worth cabbing it. The major attractions are the totem poles and NW Native art. Make sure to go outside to look at the village and make sure to find Bill Reid's Raven and the First Men statue. You will probably want to ignore the rest. If you can't make it to that, there is the small Bill Reid Museum downtown. Reid was the major figure in the revival of Haida art. There is also one of his best statues at the Vancouver airport which is worth taking the time to find.
    b. The Aquarium - A short bus ride from the convention centre. There is another Bill Reid statue in front of it. (You'll notice I'm pushing the Bill Reid stuff, but he's worth it.)
    Don't bother trying to see anything else on a short trip.

    2. The scenery is great. Vancouver has the best physical setting of any city I've ever seen. The conference centre is right on the harbour, so take some time to walk down and have a look. Mahony and Sons is a good pub right and Cactus Club is a good chain restaurant, both right by the convention centre and right on the water. Mahony has great views. Bring a light jacket so you can sit outside.
    2a. If you want more scenery, and some exercise, walk the Seawall around Stanley Park. You can also rent bikes and stuff. It's a short bus ride from the convention centre.

    3. Vancouver has a lot of great Asian and East Indian food. Tojos is a famous sushi restaurant if you want to drop some cash (worth it), and Vij's is good for Indian. Unfortunately, both are off the downtown peninsula where the convention centre is, but there are good options downtown too, which you can find on Yelp/Trip Advisor/Zomato. If you like good food, it's worth taking the time there.
    3a. If you want unique Vancouver food, like smoked salmon, I would just go to the big Olympic Village Whole Foods Broadway and Cambie. It's right on the Skytrain line. The double smoked salmon there is amazing. I also like to get the (regular) smoked salmon wrap there at the deli (often sold out after meal rush).

    4. Vancouver definitely feels less American than Seattle or Portland. For one thing, it is way more non-white than either of those. There are lot of Asians and East Indians. Seattle actually has a noticable number of black people, which you don't see in Vancouver.

    5. If you're in need of necessities, Shopper's Drug Mart is the best place to get everything you need, including small snacks. There is one not far from the convention centre.

    6. Public transit is pretty decent. But for longer trips you might just want to take a cab.

    Replies: @Thursday, @syonredux, @Twinkie, @AP

    As others have noted, Vancouver is a gorgeous city, a perfect vision of the 22nd century as imagined in the 20th, set in absolutely spectacular scenery, generally clean, safe, with the best sushi in North America.

    One jarring and surprising, and negative, aspect, however – the massive junkie neighborhood east of downtown past the Gaslight district toward Chinatown. I decided to take my family for a walk from our our hotel by Stanley Park to Chinatown during the afternoon, and we ended up in what looked like a scene from the Walking Dead…

    • Replies: @Thursday
    @AP

    Ah yeah, the Downtown East Side, Canada's poorest urban neighbourhood. Strangely enough, it's right beside the glittering downtown, right up against some of the most high priced real estate in the world. So, yeah, if you go to Gastown or Chinatown, two touristy areas, you can easily wander into junkie heaven. Not surprisingly, it's also the sight of a fierce gentrification war between developers and poverty activists.

    The government has actually piled social services into the area, which has attracted more junkies, which has lead to calls for more services. But now politically the government is in a bit of a trap. Ethnic and religious minorities in Canada tend to vote left, like in most places, because the "right wing" party here is implicitly the party of the white majority.* However, these minorities aren't exactly PC in many of their opinions, and don't really give a shit about poverty, so if anyone tries to spread out some of those services around to different parts of the city, politicians wind up with hundreds of angry Chinese people showing up to yell at them.

    All that said, Canadian bums and junkies tend to be relatively peaceable by world standards.

    *Though not entirely: the very East Asian suburb of Richmond was one of the only electoral ridings to stay Conservative in the last federal election.

    , @Twinkie
    @AP


    One jarring and surprising, and negative, aspect, however – the massive junkie neighborhood east of downtown past the Gaslight district toward Chinatown.
     
    Very common all along the Pacific Northwest. All those super "granola" Pacific Northwest two-party cities (Democrats and socialists/communists, I kid you not, actual unreconstructed communists!) have a highly bifurcated democraphics of a large, well-educated and affluent upper crust and a lot of indigents and drug addicts.

    Replies: @ohwilleke, @Thursday

  26. @AP
    @Thursday

    As others have noted, Vancouver is a gorgeous city, a perfect vision of the 22nd century as imagined in the 20th, set in absolutely spectacular scenery, generally clean, safe, with the best sushi in North America.

    One jarring and surprising, and negative, aspect, however - the massive junkie neighborhood east of downtown past the Gaslight district toward Chinatown. I decided to take my family for a walk from our our hotel by Stanley Park to Chinatown during the afternoon, and we ended up in what looked like a scene from the Walking Dead...

    Replies: @Thursday, @Twinkie

    Ah yeah, the Downtown East Side, Canada’s poorest urban neighbourhood. Strangely enough, it’s right beside the glittering downtown, right up against some of the most high priced real estate in the world. So, yeah, if you go to Gastown or Chinatown, two touristy areas, you can easily wander into junkie heaven. Not surprisingly, it’s also the sight of a fierce gentrification war between developers and poverty activists.

    The government has actually piled social services into the area, which has attracted more junkies, which has lead to calls for more services. But now politically the government is in a bit of a trap. Ethnic and religious minorities in Canada tend to vote left, like in most places, because the “right wing” party here is implicitly the party of the white majority.* However, these minorities aren’t exactly PC in many of their opinions, and don’t really give a shit about poverty, so if anyone tries to spread out some of those services around to different parts of the city, politicians wind up with hundreds of angry Chinese people showing up to yell at them.

    All that said, Canadian bums and junkies tend to be relatively peaceable by world standards.

    *Though not entirely: the very East Asian suburb of Richmond was one of the only electoral ridings to stay Conservative in the last federal election.

  27. @Thursday
    @Twinkie

    BC, and Western Canada in general, have a lot of natural resources. A lot of those go out through the port, which is the largest in Canada. A lot of those resource companies have their headquarters in the city, along with all the lawyers and accountants needed to support them. Lower BC is pretty much the only part of Canada that doesn't have bad winters, so the Fraser Valley, and to a lesser extent the Okanagan Valley, despite their small size, end up supplying a lot of food to the rest of the country. Tourism is big too, as it is the most beautiful part of the country.

    But, yeah, the economy is being propped up by Asian investments in real estate etc. If you want to live there, you need mucho buckos.

    -----

    You'd never guess to look at it now, but Vancouver has a big blue collar, lumberjack-y history. Unions used to be huge, and clashed politically with the libertarian-ish types that also made their way out to the coast. Add in some fundamentalist Christian farmers from the FV and Okanagan, and the politics of the place has been really interesting.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Christopher

    You’d never guess to look at it now, but Vancouver has a big blue collar, lumberjack-y history. Unions used to be huge, and clashed politically with the libertarian-ish types that also made their way out to the coast. Add in some fundamentalist Christian farmers from the FV and Okanagan, and the politics of the place has been really interesting.

    Seattle was very similar. Between the logging industry and Boeing and shipyards, Seattle was once considered a blue collar “cow town.” At one point around the early 70’s, its declining industry was so maligned (and unemployment so high) that there was a billboard that stated “Will the last person to leave Seattle – please turn off the lights?”

    Look at it now. The tech industry, hipsters, tourists, etc. I know a house on a very desirable neighborhood of Seattle that overlooks the whole city and the water that was about $200,000 or so in the ’80’s. It’s probably costs around $10 million now, if the owners were willing to sell, that is.

  28. @AP
    @Thursday

    As others have noted, Vancouver is a gorgeous city, a perfect vision of the 22nd century as imagined in the 20th, set in absolutely spectacular scenery, generally clean, safe, with the best sushi in North America.

    One jarring and surprising, and negative, aspect, however - the massive junkie neighborhood east of downtown past the Gaslight district toward Chinatown. I decided to take my family for a walk from our our hotel by Stanley Park to Chinatown during the afternoon, and we ended up in what looked like a scene from the Walking Dead...

    Replies: @Thursday, @Twinkie

    One jarring and surprising, and negative, aspect, however – the massive junkie neighborhood east of downtown past the Gaslight district toward Chinatown.

    Very common all along the Pacific Northwest. All those super “granola” Pacific Northwest two-party cities (Democrats and socialists/communists, I kid you not, actual unreconstructed communists!) have a highly bifurcated democraphics of a large, well-educated and affluent upper crust and a lot of indigents and drug addicts.

    • Replies: @ohwilleke
    @Twinkie

    When I was a college student at Oberlin College, which has about 2,950 students, the Democratic Socialists club had about 600 students, there were about 40 Trotskyists, and there were 8 Republicans.

    , @Thursday
    @Twinkie

    Libertarianish politicians have done very well in Vancouver politics, even right downtown. Recent mayors have included Gordon Campbell and Sam Sullivan, with Campbell going on to become provincial premier for the right wing Liberal party.* The Conservatives, the federal right wing party, are competitive too and have actually elected MPs in downtown ridings, something they haven't been able to do in Toronto and Montreal.

    Provincially, the lefty New Democratic Party has been shut out of power for a long time now due to some spectacularly incompetent governments in the 1990s. Despite the Liberals starting to wear out their welcome, people have been really reluctant to go back to the bad old days of NDP rule.

    You don't actually see much socialist/communist politics in Vancouver anymore.

    *BC is the only Canadian province where the Liberal name taken up by a right wing party. And they are a genuine right wing party, though classical liberal/libertarian rather than social conservative.

    Replies: @Thursday

  29. @Twinkie
    @AP


    One jarring and surprising, and negative, aspect, however – the massive junkie neighborhood east of downtown past the Gaslight district toward Chinatown.
     
    Very common all along the Pacific Northwest. All those super "granola" Pacific Northwest two-party cities (Democrats and socialists/communists, I kid you not, actual unreconstructed communists!) have a highly bifurcated democraphics of a large, well-educated and affluent upper crust and a lot of indigents and drug addicts.

    Replies: @ohwilleke, @Thursday

    When I was a college student at Oberlin College, which has about 2,950 students, the Democratic Socialists club had about 600 students, there were about 40 Trotskyists, and there were 8 Republicans.

  30. @Twinkie
    @AP


    One jarring and surprising, and negative, aspect, however – the massive junkie neighborhood east of downtown past the Gaslight district toward Chinatown.
     
    Very common all along the Pacific Northwest. All those super "granola" Pacific Northwest two-party cities (Democrats and socialists/communists, I kid you not, actual unreconstructed communists!) have a highly bifurcated democraphics of a large, well-educated and affluent upper crust and a lot of indigents and drug addicts.

    Replies: @ohwilleke, @Thursday

    Libertarianish politicians have done very well in Vancouver politics, even right downtown. Recent mayors have included Gordon Campbell and Sam Sullivan, with Campbell going on to become provincial premier for the right wing Liberal party.* The Conservatives, the federal right wing party, are competitive too and have actually elected MPs in downtown ridings, something they haven’t been able to do in Toronto and Montreal.

    Provincially, the lefty New Democratic Party has been shut out of power for a long time now due to some spectacularly incompetent governments in the 1990s. Despite the Liberals starting to wear out their welcome, people have been really reluctant to go back to the bad old days of NDP rule.

    You don’t actually see much socialist/communist politics in Vancouver anymore.

    *BC is the only Canadian province where the Liberal name taken up by a right wing party. And they are a genuine right wing party, though classical liberal/libertarian rather than social conservative.

    • Replies: @Thursday
    @Thursday

    I'll add some details to show what kind of right wing politician flourishes in Vancouver. Former mayor Philip Owen opened safe injection sites in the city (creating a massive conflict with the Conservative federal government), and Sam Sullivan did him one better and let one particular drug addict get high in his own van! And yet these are genuine right wingers, not mushy moderates.

    (BTW, Vancouver has just about the only partisan system for municipal government in Canada. Campbell, Owen and Sullivan all led the right wing coalition.)

  31. @Thursday
    @Twinkie

    Libertarianish politicians have done very well in Vancouver politics, even right downtown. Recent mayors have included Gordon Campbell and Sam Sullivan, with Campbell going on to become provincial premier for the right wing Liberal party.* The Conservatives, the federal right wing party, are competitive too and have actually elected MPs in downtown ridings, something they haven't been able to do in Toronto and Montreal.

    Provincially, the lefty New Democratic Party has been shut out of power for a long time now due to some spectacularly incompetent governments in the 1990s. Despite the Liberals starting to wear out their welcome, people have been really reluctant to go back to the bad old days of NDP rule.

    You don't actually see much socialist/communist politics in Vancouver anymore.

    *BC is the only Canadian province where the Liberal name taken up by a right wing party. And they are a genuine right wing party, though classical liberal/libertarian rather than social conservative.

    Replies: @Thursday

    I’ll add some details to show what kind of right wing politician flourishes in Vancouver. Former mayor Philip Owen opened safe injection sites in the city (creating a massive conflict with the Conservative federal government), and Sam Sullivan did him one better and let one particular drug addict get high in his own van! And yet these are genuine right wingers, not mushy moderates.

    (BTW, Vancouver has just about the only partisan system for municipal government in Canada. Campbell, Owen and Sullivan all led the right wing coalition.)

  32. @Razib Khan
    @Twinkie

    1) the bible is such an uneven book. i've read genesis dozens of times. in contrast, leviticus a lot less.

    2) thinking of rereading the dune books. they dropped in quality in my recollection, though *god emperor* seemed to bring it back a little.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Robert Ford, @Twinkie, @Thursday

    Leviticus is a dry legal text. However, interpreted by an insightful scholar, it has a lot of anthropological interest. Mary Douglas’ Purity and Danger is best on the purity codes, while James B. Jordan and Peter Leithart are good on the temple stuff.

    But, yeah, you might want to mostly stick with the secondary lit here.

    —-

    Good summary of Douglas.

    • Replies: @benjaminl
    @Thursday

    A few favorites in this line.... the first two here are probably most relevant to this blog.


    * https://www.amazon.com/Biblical-History-Israels-Past-Changing/dp/0802862608

    * https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136/

    * https://www.amazon.com/Maccabees-Mishnah-Third-Shaye-Cohen/dp/0664239048/

    * https://www.amazon.com/Art-Biblical-Narrative-Robert-Alter/dp/0465022553/

  33. @Twinkie

    Parents Didn’t Just Dislike Super Nintendo 25 Years Ago—They Thought It Was a Scam. Fun fact: I stopped playing video games when I was 16. Mostly because it was taking up too much of my time. This means that I’m excluded from a lot of conversation and pop culture. So be it.
     
    Marx was wrong. Religion is not the opiate of the masses. Video games are. When I see the hours and hours of time wasted by young people (and even supposed adults) playing video games, it is both sad and baffling.

    When I see people playing shooting games or sports games, I ask them, "Why don't you go out and do the real thing? Go do some real shooting or play actual sports. They are better for you." I never allowed video games for my children, and they never developed an interest in them... Just like they never developed a sweet tooth (my wife and I never gave them sugary snacks - they were pretty excited with fruits).

    Replies: @gwern, @Christopher

    I remember how as children, my brother and I along with our friends down the street would spend time outdoors in the park. Then they got a Sega Genesis and we headed inside. I remember seeing that friend about a year ago and I noticed how fat he seems to have become.

    I still follow video game news from time to time, despite not playing much at all nowadays. It seems to me that the video game industry has become more “scamy” over time. Free to play games often have psychological traps to get people to spend as much money as possible and can often come uncomfortably close to gambling. Many of these mechanisms can also be found in full price video games. Steam have as large library of games at low prices, yes, but too much of it is terrible shovelware.

    Naming 3 books, of the top of my head: Ecological Imperialism by Alfred W. Crosby, The Unfinished Empire by John Darwin and China: A History by John Keay. Thee more, How Asia Works by Joe Studwell, Code by Charles Petzold and Frozen Earth by J. D. Macdougall. Sorry if this is too scattershot and unfocused.

    Does anybody have any e-book reader recommendations? I’m thinking of getting one soon, but I’m undecided between the Nook or the Kindle, and which model I should get, other than the less expensive one.

  34. @Thursday
    @Twinkie

    BC, and Western Canada in general, have a lot of natural resources. A lot of those go out through the port, which is the largest in Canada. A lot of those resource companies have their headquarters in the city, along with all the lawyers and accountants needed to support them. Lower BC is pretty much the only part of Canada that doesn't have bad winters, so the Fraser Valley, and to a lesser extent the Okanagan Valley, despite their small size, end up supplying a lot of food to the rest of the country. Tourism is big too, as it is the most beautiful part of the country.

    But, yeah, the economy is being propped up by Asian investments in real estate etc. If you want to live there, you need mucho buckos.

    -----

    You'd never guess to look at it now, but Vancouver has a big blue collar, lumberjack-y history. Unions used to be huge, and clashed politically with the libertarian-ish types that also made their way out to the coast. Add in some fundamentalist Christian farmers from the FV and Okanagan, and the politics of the place has been really interesting.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Christopher

    In August, the average home price dropped sharply from $1.8 million to $1.47 million. So maybe we’re seeing the beginnings of the end?

    Even with those economic activities, I don’t think the lower Mainland has enough economic activity to justify the prices. I’m not a good economist at all, but I do understand how this is the product of stimulus spending, both in the West and China, that was syphoned off in various ways legal and not so legal, and poured into real estate bubble like Vancouver, Toronto, etc. Which, sooner or later, burst. To paraphrase a famous video game quote(!), bubbles never change.

    You’d never guess to look at it now, but Vancouver has a big blue collar, lumberjack-y history. Unions used to be huge, and clashed politically with the libertarian-ish types that also made their way out to the coast. Add in some fundamentalist Christian farmers from the FV and Okanagan, and the politics of the place has been really interesting.

    I think all of the Pacific Coast is like that. Joel Garreau divided those states and British Columbia between the “nations” of coastal ‘Ecotopia’, with its hippy-ish leftist politics and the ‘Empty Quarter’, with its conservative and anti-federal politics. A history of BC noted that the lack of farmable land means that BC didn’t have a large group of family farmers, but it did have a large class of labourers in the mining and forestry sectors. Thus, there’s a large tradition of radical unionism, its conservative reaction and a deep and bitter history of antagonism between the two.

  35. @Thursday
    @Razib Khan

    Leviticus is a dry legal text. However, interpreted by an insightful scholar, it has a lot of anthropological interest. Mary Douglas' Purity and Danger is best on the purity codes, while James B. Jordan and Peter Leithart are good on the temple stuff.

    But, yeah, you might want to mostly stick with the secondary lit here.

    ----

    Good summary of Douglas.

    Replies: @benjaminl

  36. Congratulations Razib, on being cited in the sparse endnotes of J.D. Vance’s Hillbilly Elegy for this post: https://www.unz.com/gnxp/the-scots-irish-as-indigenous-people/?highlight=Scots-Irish

  37. @Twinkie
    @Joe Q.


    Vancouver is pretty crunchy-granola in many respects, and has the West Coast vibe going just like Seattle, but AFAIK Seattle is a lot more white than Vancouver. Vancouver is about 40% Asian (mix of East Asian and South Asian).
     
    "Hongcouver" was transformed when the moneyed half of Hong Kong parked its families there while the menfolk ("astronauts") remained in Hong Kong to continue make money around the time of the handover back to the PRC.

    Seattle has always been a substantially Asian-, especially Japanese-, influenced city (it was also the old hangout of Bruce Lee and he was buried there), and its largest minority population has been Asian rather than Hispanic or black. But, unlike Vancouver, Seattle's Asian population has been heavily assimilated rather than "fresh off the boat." Hence, Seattle has more white-Asian intermarriages and worse Asian (Chinese and Indian) food than Vancouver. The latter also has much better Persian food.

    Although Seattle has become whiter of late, the surrounding business suburbs, including Bellevue and Redmond have become heavily Asian (especially Indian) due to the whole tech industry/H1B visa phenomenon. Issaquah, for example, used to be a sleepy "boonies" town with almost exclusively white residents, but now is close to 20% Asian.

    Both Seattle and Vancouver areas had their own character once, but they sadly seem to be transforming into NorCal-lites.

    Replies: @Joe Q., @Jefferson

    But, unlike Vancouver, Seattle’s Asian population has been heavily assimilated”

    Seattle’s Asian population is not heavily assimilated. Asians don’t assimilate in any city where they make up double digit percentage of the population. Seattle is 13 percent Asian.

    If it was up to me all of America would have Florida level low percentage of Asians.

    No city is Florida is above 3 percent Asian. Cities in Florida range from less than 1 percent Asian to no more than 3 percent Asian.

    Seattle is way too Asian for a Western city.

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